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From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Mon Aug 21 00:53:24 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Mon Aug 21 00:53:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] Java? Sizing pop-up windows References: <39A068E5.ED8153B9@nouveauxvisages.com> Message-ID: <002301c00b34$13a29180$8dee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Are we really talking about Java here, or JavaScript? -- mattwarden ----- Original Message ----- From: Colleen McGunnigle To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 7:26 PM Subject: [thelist] Java: Sizing pop-up windows > Is there a way to set a pop-up window to be a specific width > horizontally but take up the entire available screen area vertically? > (Like the concept of setting a fixed width with a 100% height setting) > > Thank you! > > ______________________________________________ > > Nouveaux Visages Design Group > http://www.nouveauxvisages.com > ______________________________________________ > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From info at aussiebidder.com Mon Aug 21 01:14:01 2000 From: info at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer) Date: Mon Aug 21 01:14:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] $varaibles in perl References: <002901c00a79$b03110a0$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> <399F8E4E.E179DB9C@Baratta.com> Message-ID: <007701c00b37$71c64560$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Thanks Anthony, > use > This will insert your variable list into the file at compile time. It worked fine...I had tried that before but must have done something wrong. Heres another one for you. The script I have has a gazillion "print" statements in it. I have progressively gone through it and started to rewrite it and use print <<"EOF"; to encompass complete pages of outputted . Is this supposed to make the script faster or just ease up the workload for the server. I realise that every iteration of "print" is a hit on the server (at least that's what I thought) so how does getting rid of lots of them impacted on the compilation of the script as far as the viewer is concerned? Thanks again Adrian Fischer From adrian at logo-logic.com Mon Aug 21 02:50:55 2000 From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer) Date: Mon Aug 21 02:50:55 2000 Subject: [thelist] More perl(s) Message-ID: <008f01c00b44$faa56980$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Thanks Anthony for clearing up the $variable thing for me. It works a treat. Got another one for you though: The script I have has a gazillion "print" statements in it. I have progressively gone through it and started to rewrite it and use print <<"EOF"; to encompass complete pages of outputted . Is this supposed to make the script faster or just ease up the workload for the server. I realise that every iteration of "print" is a hit on the server (at least that's what I thought) so how does getting rid of lots of them impacted on the compilation of the script as far as the viewer is concerned? Thanks again Adrian Fischer AussieBidder.Com (BN17329700) 58 Ballinger Crescent Albany Creek Queensland 4035 Australia From sck at biljettpoolen.se Mon Aug 21 03:03:24 2000 From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook) Date: Mon Aug 21 03:03:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] More perl(s) Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA68@SBS> It will have a tiny nominal effect on compilation speed, but a much greater effect on "ease of programming"! Rather than a hit on the server, each print statement is a slight hit on the compiler, but the differens between the two should make no discernable difference to program execution speed except in extreme circumstances. Use print < -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Fischer [mailto:adrian at logo-logic.com] > Sent: den 21 augusti 2000 09:54 > To: The List > Subject: [thelist] More perl(s) > > > Thanks Anthony for clearing up the $variable thing for me. It works a > treat. > > Got another one for you though: > The script I have has a gazillion "print" statements in it. I have > progressively gone through it and started to rewrite it and use print > <<"EOF"; to encompass complete pages of outputted > . Is this supposed to make the script faster or just > ease up the > workload for the server. I realise that every iteration of > "print" is a hit > on the server (at least that's what I thought) so how does > getting rid of > lots of them impacted on the compilation of the script as far > as the viewer > is concerned? > > Thanks again > > > Adrian Fischer > From pbi at dircon.co.uk Mon Aug 21 04:10:44 2000 From: pbi at dircon.co.uk (Paul Bradforth) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:10:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] Help with a dhtml script please!!!!! In-Reply-To: <39A0AEB029F.A998VIDMAN@planet.net.au> Message-ID: <200008210910.KAA50369@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> On 21/8/00 at 2:23 pm, vidman at starnet.com.au ([ vidman design ]) wrote: > When I try to open the page in NN6 (preview 2) it dosnt work at all. > Any ideas why not? As far as I know NN6 follows the "rules" to the > letter and as I would rather follow these rules, I'm assuming I'm > doing something wrong!?!? > > I dont have a clue how it looks or works on a MAC either so if anyone > has a mac and give me a bit of feedback on this front (let me know > your browser also please)it would be very welcome. It works fine on my Mac, in both Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape Communicator 4.7. Each heading drops down nicely to show the sub headings. "Odyssey House" text at top looks a bit grungy; could do with antilaliasing? best wishes, Paul http://www.paulbradforth.com http://pbi.freelancers.net XXII Group http://www.xxii.com From sck at biljettpoolen.se Mon Aug 21 04:15:55 2000 From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:15:55 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA6B@SBS> Just wanted to say that I also think that this could have some real benifits, but that we should perhaps consider a little more deeply what it might mean to be a part of this network. I would suggest that there be some discussion of benefits vs disadvantages before evolt is committed to osdn's tender clutches :-) I personally feel that the Andover network and VA Linux are possibly the best content aggregator that we could be associated with. They have proven that their alliegances lie with open source and have taken good care of other sites within their circle (Slashdot, Freshmeat et al.). We should also consider though the possible drawbacks. Could we open ourselves up to the sort of trolling behaviour that has marred Slashdot so heavily by joining this network? Are we prepared for the sort of increase in membership that this might entail? I have every respect for the evolt membership and the moderator gods :-) We handled a big influx of new members earlier this year (hi guys!!) who have been nothing but a positive thing for evolt. I personally think that evolt can handle it, but would like to see some more discussion rather than a straightforward "go ahead". What do you all think?? .steve ---------------------------------- WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:djc at five2one.org] > Sent: den 18 augusti 2000 16:32 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] open source development network > >OSDN, sponsored by VA Linux is a 'vortal'(sorry, i hate the word too :) >for the open source community that is just getting started. They're >looking for partners for content for their site, and I wondered what you >all thought if we got evolt submitted to become a 'partner'? > Just wondered what people might think, or if you had opinions > or if that > would be a bad idea or what :) > > http://www.osdn.org > > thnx for the feedback > > .djc. From deboute at fr.clara.net Mon Aug 21 04:29:41 2000 From: deboute at fr.clara.net (deboute benjamin) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:29:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] what to do with dead links In-Reply-To: <01c00a0f$14e038c0$ab52059a@default> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000821113734.00daa530@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 14:55 19/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >****************************************************** >TODAY'S eTIP(TM): Wiping Out Decomposing URLs >When you run into a page that doesn't load and the >message that smacks you is Error 404: Page Not Found, >take action! Submit that page to your favorite search >engine. >************************************************* you see a dead link. you click. bookmarklet+mail script http://evolt.nerdsoul.com/clean_the_web.phtml source http://evolt.nerdsoul.com/source_clean_the_web.txt benjamin deboute From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Aug 21 04:41:20 2000 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon Aug 21 04:41:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] Help with a dhtml script please!!!!! In-Reply-To: <200008210910.KAA50369@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> References: <39A0AEB029F.A998VIDMAN@planet.net.au> <200008210910.KAA50369@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39A0FB891B5.64CBVIDMAN@planet.net.au> > "Odyssey House" text at top looks a bit grungy; could do with > antilaliasing? yeah the logo is actually fine.. i just havent got the background on the page yet.. just keeping it simple to start with. Hmm.. i have one mac person with IE5 that was fine and another that stuffed up! *sigh* Oh for consistancy...*sigh* vid PS- So far no one has a fix for NN6... any takers? Free design/work/help for anyone who has a cure! --------------- vidman design --------------- For designs that grab your attention like a mohawk on a politician! http://www.vidmandesign.com ------------------------------------------------------- From jeff at c4webdesign.com Mon Aug 21 04:43:10 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:43:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] what to do with dead links References: <4.3.0.20000821113734.00daa530@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <064301c00b53$c8e64860$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> benjamin, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: deboute benjamin : : bookmarklet+mail script : http://evolt.nerdsoul.com/clean_the_web.phtml : : source : http://evolt.nerdsoul.com/source_clean_the_web.txt :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ how appropriate, considering the topic: Not Found The requested URL /clean_the_web.phtml was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/1.3.9 Server at bogus_host_without_reverse_dns Port 80 good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From john at userfrenzy.com Mon Aug 21 05:29:21 2000 From: john at userfrenzy.com (John Handelaar) Date: Mon Aug 21 05:29:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] Site ridicule In-Reply-To: <00ed01c00aee$c6b7c380$3e2a893e@v0d8h2> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of kev.skindrill > Sent: 20 August 2000 22:29 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Site ridicule > > > OK, you've all been so helpful since I joined the List I thought > it is about > time I showed you some of the stuff I've been working on. Because a lot of > the sites that have been put up for critique have been quite > stunning I have [snip] I'm a little unclear about why you're bothering to call a CSS and then not actually using it for anything. BTW, the CSS file itself uses font names which are extremely PC-specific. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From madhu at asiacontent.com Mon Aug 21 05:35:53 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Aug 21 05:35:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] what to do with dead links In-Reply-To: <20000820170002.7EF93A8EEA@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821155523.00b6fae0@203.197.60.113> At 12:00 PM 8/20/00 -0500, Rudy wrote: >coincidence? right after my lament about links such as >http://www.whatis.com/icejello.html suddenly returning 404 errors, i get >this tip from the DUMMIES DAILY: Internet Search Tips service >(http://www.dummiesdaily.com) -- > >****************************************************** >TODAY'S eTIP(TM): Wiping Out Decomposing URLs >When you run into a page that doesn't load and the >message that smacks you is Error 404: Page Not Found, >take action! Submit that page to your favorite search >engine. This action is the cyber-equivalent of picking >up a piece of litter and tossing it in a trash can. The Except that it isn't always so. If you have a custom 404 error handler (call it say, notfound.asp), which does something useful like pointing people to likely places where their article might have moved, the search engine will index that page properly. I found this out at the last company I worked. We did a total redesign and reorganisation of the site (trust me, it was required). I set up a helpful 404 handler that started with "Sorry, the page you requested cannot be found. We have just done a redesign. The most likely place for finding this article would be... ". Altavista crawled our site and indexed the 404 page instead of removing the old one from the index. And it did it for EACH one of the old pages. So we had about 1500 dead links indexed. Sigh. But then, custom 404 pages are a Good Thing. Damned if you, damned if you don't, I guess. In your case, Rudy, Altavista would index whatis.com's error page. BTW, I forgot to ask, why do you dislike IT portals so much? It's just that this is the 3rd "IT Portal" I'm working for, so I'm curious. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From deboute at fr.clara.net Mon Aug 21 05:36:15 2000 From: deboute at fr.clara.net (deboute benjamin) Date: Mon Aug 21 05:36:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] what to do with dead links In-Reply-To: <064301c00b53$c8e64860$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> References: <4.3.0.20000821113734.00daa530@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000821123722.00db4dc0@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 02:40 21/08/00 -0700, jeff wrote: >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: From: deboute benjamin >: >: bookmarklet+mail script >: http://evolt.nerdsoul.com/clean_the_web.phtml > >how appropriate, considering the topic: > >Not Found >The requested URL /clean_the_web.phtml was not found on this server. lol :) looks like my server has some problems with the subdomains. murphy's laws are here. -- the script :: i assumed that altavista or any search engine filters the email with 404 in the subject / body ( not that i'm naive, but it SHOULD be like that, in a perfect nerd's world ) the bookmarklet calls a page that if the url field is not empty and does contain 'ht' as part of the scheme ( http / https ), sends back a http 204 ( the browser stops waiting for data, and stays where it was ), the mails the url to the search engine of your choice ( add a 'for' for multiple search engine ). This version is not a working one, just the script left to be cut&paste and configured). You could make a version pointing to the script called by the form of a search engine with the sending of a location header. -- urls :: http://www.nerdsoul.com/evolt/clean_the_web.html http://www.nerdsoul.com/evolt/source_clean_the_web.txt -- disclaimer :: i made this quickly, in the mood of the moment, just as a caprice. Don't expect it to be flawless :) benjamin deboute From r937 at interlog.com Mon Aug 21 05:59:48 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Mon Aug 21 05:59:48 2000 Subject: [thelist] what to do with dead links Message-ID: <01c00b5e$b92f73a0$fa52059a@default> > why do you dislike IT portals so much? hi madhu i guess it's portals i dislike, but IT portals are the worst of the bunch i'm not even sure i know what a "portal" is any more for those of you familiar with the dilbert comic strip, portals look like they were designed by the pointy-haired boss would you call altavista.com a search portal? you sure as hell have to look carefully to find the search function in IT more than in any other part of corporate life, the suits are a real impediment to getting things done on time or getting things done well (i oughta know, i used to be one) i do understand that portals are trying to fill a need (giving you links to wherever it is that they think you might want to go) but the perception of the need is entirely on their part, and more often than not the result so overwhelms you that the site is less usable i'd be interested in hearing about what folks think are "good" IT portals rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From Martin.Burns at Scottishpower.plc.uk Mon Aug 21 08:29:56 2000 From: Martin.Burns at Scottishpower.plc.uk (Burns, Martin (RBS)) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:29:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] whatis.com redesigned into uselessness. Message-ID: <27BDC471C974D311AE4A0008C7DA7F8D0192EBD5@porspwnts01.por.scottishpower.plc.uk> Hey Rudy Amongst their other interesting quirks: http://www.whatis.com/WhatIs_Browse_Alphabetical_Page/0,3940,N,00.html Alphabetical: N Below are all the related IT words beginning with N. 1 - 2 of 2 terms. > mouse miles Although I have to say, their home page takes the biscuit: > We've maintained all of the best features of the "old" > site, and added some new features to make your life even easier.. As you pointed out, the single best feature was the URL structure. Still, nice to see them moving away from frames. Cheers Martin -----Original Message----- From: Martin Burns [mailto:martin at easyweb.co.uk] Sent: 20 August 2000 10:01 To: Burns, Martin (RBS) Subject: Fwd: Re: [thelist] whatis.com redesigned into uselessness. ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 18/8/00 7:27 pm Received: 19/8/00 11:42 am From: rudy limeback, Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Reply-To: evolt, thelist at lists.evolt.org To: evolt, thelist at lists.evolt.org > Anyone who does this kind of a radical redesign of the > content and the usability to a content site deserves the wrath of users. i too sent a long list of complaints yesterday today, i got two replies, one from a marketing manager at techtarget "Thanks for letting us know how you feel about our site redesign. We are experiencing some problems with our migration and we know the site is less than optimal at this time. But please bear with us. All the great information you've come to rely on (with a quicker response time) will be up and operational within a few days" and the other reply was from the guy who created whatis.com "Rudy... Thanks for some apt comments! Your note expressed the opinions and frustrations of many users so well that I forwarded it with my own comments to the TechTarget.com management team, including the CEO. They will read it." As the former owner and still "whatis site advocate" in this new company, I'll be around another year and a half. Since I use the site myself a lot, I'm going to keep demanding that we restore as much as possible of what existed about a week ago. Meanwhile, we face a slew of performance problems. I do think you'll find that the management team knows they made a big mistake and will do what they can to fix it soon." quite an interesting difference in tone, eh? he also asked about content management systems (expressing doubt that they would switch from vignette at this point) so in my reply back to him, i pointed him to martin's article http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=1449 and the camworld page http://www.camworld.com/cms/ i also went into some detail explaining why those lovely self-descriptive urls such as http://www.whatis.com/icejello.htm should be preserved (translated, redirected, whatever) instead of ending up in 404s i think they've got the message, let's see how fast they can fix it if anything, this fiasco is a pretty good case study in how a corporate takeover of a successful site (ostensibly for what purpose? to grab their audience, of course) can be a total fuckup if they forget design and usability along the way one of the remarks he made about vignette was that techtarget chose vignette "because ZDNet and similar companies use it and because, as with any new startup, there's a need to ramp up quickly" sounds just like the kind of decision you get from a roomful of suits the company i work for made a similar decision this week, using a committee of twenty mostly IT people (i was excluded -- sniff) to settle on using office 2000 as the company's new standard web publishing tool, specifically a consulting-company-written custom front-end content management system interfacing office 2000 to a site server backend... the scuttlebutt says one of the strong selling points was the live demo (and we all know what that means)... now "ordinary people" will be able to publish to the intranet, using tools like word and excel and powerpoint that they're already comfortable with... thank god they decided to terminate me later this year, i really don't think i would want to keep working here, and to have them pay me to leave, well, that just seems like a nice bonus... of course, what everybody forgets is that it isn't about the technology, it's about the content imagine having a successful web site that every fourth or fifth web site in the entire universe has links to, such as www.whatis.com/icejello.htm, and then converting all your content to urls like http://www.whatis.com/WhatIs_Definition_Page/0,4152,212307,00.html and then not even thinking of redirects that send visitors to the new urls, but letting them end up in 404s... duh, eh? rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From Kingorbitao at aol.com Mon Aug 21 08:59:35 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:59:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: In a message dated 8/21/00 4:19:44 AM Central Daylight Time, sck at biljettpoolen.se writes: << Could we open ourselves up to the sort of trolling behaviour that has marred Slashdot so heavily by joining this network? Are we prepared for the sort of increase in membership that this might entail? A challenge like this could force Evolt to develop new/better moderating technologies, methods, procedures, and yada yada yada. From gsd at mac.com Mon Aug 21 09:06:53 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:06:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation methods. Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. I like the idea of being a part of this open source development network but at the same time sck at biljettpoolen.se brought up a very good point. Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. --Ayn Rand > A challenge like this could force Evolt to develop new/better moderating > technologies, methods, procedures, and yada yada yada. From Kingorbitao at aol.com Mon Aug 21 09:09:03 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:09:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: In a message dated 8/21/00 9:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, gsd at mac.com writes: << I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation methods. Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by the all-mighty crippling "Slashdot-effect". From jay at weberrific.org Mon Aug 21 09:27:34 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:27:34 2000 Subject: [thelist] Teaching Internet To Senior Citizens Message-ID: <200008211427.KAA29849@server5000.net> Hi all! Happy Monday! I just searched the list archives and found someone who mentioned teaching internet to seniors. However, their email address is not valid, so I am posting the message I sent to the list in the hopes that fleet is still a subscriber. Or if not, maybe one of you wonderful people can help me out. Message follows... Hi- I just saw your name on the list.evolt.org archive. I thought I had remembered a thread dealing with teaching internet to senior citizens. My son's school is attempting to reach out into the community. To that end, they plan to offer a bunch of classes for the (mostly) senior neighborhood residents. I have been volunteered (well, actually, I did it to myself) to teach such a class. I have experience in tutoring, and in lecturing at a college level, plus several speeches/talks, but I was hoping that you might be able to help me out with a curriculum/hints/anecdotes/etc. If you don't have the time, I completely understand. But if you do have some time to talk or help me out, please let me know. Sincerely, - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From aczechowski at towson.edu Mon Aug 21 09:37:25 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:37:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] IT training costs Message-ID: There is a lot of discussion around here lately about training (as in professional employee training) - currently we have no training budget but our superiors realize the need to add that in. So they're asking us to provide them with conferences, classes, etc that we might want to attend with all the corresponding travel & lodging expenses. No problems there, but I'm wondering - what sort of budgets to ya'll have for employee training? Per person? One person here said that the IT industry standard is $3000 per person per year. Does that sound accurate? Any experiences/thoughts/comments would be appreciated. thanks! Aaron :) Aaron M. Czechowski, MCP Senior Client Services Associate Computing and Network Services Towson University www.towson.edu/cans www.towson.edu/~aczech From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Aug 21 09:47:02 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:47:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821153122.00ba1bb0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 15:09 21/08/00, you wrote: ><< I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation methods. > Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> > >Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by the all-mighty >crippling "Slashdot-effect". We've had (and still have) a pretty damn high share of traffic - it's one reason we're no longer running on Access & NT (Oracle & Linux now). An interview Dan did with the Mozilla gods got posted to /. We've also had some very high download traffic at the browser archive. However, you're right we haven't had the kind of idiocy OT stuff which /. has, partially because we're still small enough to feel like a community (/. doesn't although it certainly has a fairly definable set of audiences). Another element to that community-ness is that we're more than just a portal with bulletin-board. However, moderation of rogue (hey! X-men quote! (sorry)) content is something which is on the radar. It's a tricky one - how to encourage the good stuff while still being open. /. have a solution which works for them - we may need to develop something which achieves some of the same aims. Plus of course, there are legal nicities to be aware of - since a UK case earlier this year (Godfrey -v- Demon Internet http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/10099.html) public-created sites have some duty of care towards those defamed on them. We've already started developing one or two features which will help keep us right with this - kudos to .jeff for a lot of the work. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOaFAu3HoHnCoNczLEQJEMQCaAh6+8GWMMzBs2/ckJzmvmWMsHigAnRse gabcW8m3gZXWpqC3AnuRtQ3a =dEsr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sck at biljettpoolen.se Mon Aug 21 09:52:28 2000 From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:52:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA70@SBS> The "Slashdot effect" is one thing - and I believe evolt has been Slashdotted at least once in the past and survived :-) The mentality of a minority of Slashdot users who use the site as their personal playground is a whole 'nother matter. I've been a long time user of both communities and I have to say that evolt has fared much, much better than the big S. I still use both however, as despite its shortcomings, Slashdot is still an excellent news resource. Whether the trolls would want to come and play at evolt, or not, is open to question. I *think* that evolt would not appeal to them, as the format is so completely different. However, we saw very recently the effect of a seemingly troll-like posting on the evolt site (though it turned out to have been misplaced humour). Other sites within the VA/Andover network have not been smitten by the disease, but the extreme trolling behaviour that we see nowadays at /. actually started at a site called Sluggy Freelance (I believe) and spread to Slashdot when they (SF) changed their policy about anonymous posting. I agree that evolt is doing wonderfully without extensive moderation. evolt is built upon a platform of mutual respect and "egoboo" (group ego stroking, literally "ego boost") which has built a helpful, knowledgeable, likeable community. Of course such a community wants to grow and can't be planned every step of the way. There are other considerations that come into play with the idea of joining the OSDN. There is the positive growth effect it may have, the possibility of better resources perhaps, greater ability to work with other associated sites and many other things I can't think of right now. Let's hear some more of the positive benefits perhaps. Also, at the end of the day, who decides? I would imagine that it is the admin team, based upon the majority of opinions received. Am I guessing right? Cheers .steve ---------------------------------- WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Kingorbitao at aol.com [mailto:Kingorbitao at aol.com] > Sent: den 21 augusti 2000 16:09 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] open source development network > > > In a message dated 8/21/00 9:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, > gsd at mac.com > writes: > > << I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive > moderation methods. > Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> > > Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by > the all-mighty > crippling "Slashdot-effect". > > From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Mon Aug 21 10:07:14 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:07:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: > we haven't barely been affected by the > all-mighty crippling "Slashdot-effect". it only happened once, and it only happened because evolt was running on a ms access database at the time now that we're running on linux/oracle, the slashdot effect can probably no longer hit us dan? > I have every respect for the evolt membership and the moderator gods :-) thanks steve i would like to point out that a) this list (thelist) is *not* moderated, but the admins were forced, on at least one occasion, to unsubscribe somebody for not cleaning up his act b) the web site (evolt.org) *is* moderated, but for suitability only -- the admins typically do not approve "articles" that are, say, press releases, requests for site critiques, in poor taste, etc. A. "suitability" as defined by the admins B. "poor taste" as defined by the admins C. we are always looking for new admins also, the admins are not gods... ... eh ;o) From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Aug 21 10:16:46 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:16:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200008211516.IAA19864@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca > > also, the admins are not gods... but we don't mind tithing and other forms of worship... From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 10:23:46 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:23:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] IT training costs References: Message-ID: <39A140B3.B73E902C@five2one.org> "Czechowski, Aaron" wrote: > > There is a lot of discussion around here lately about training (as > in professional employee training) - currently we have no training budget > but our superiors realize the need to add that in. So they're asking us to > provide them with conferences, classes, etc that we might want to attend > with all the corresponding travel & lodging expenses. > No problems there, but I'm wondering - what sort of budgets to ya'll > have for employee training? Per person? One person here said that the IT > industry standard is $3000 per person per year. Does that sound accurate? > Any experiences/thoughts/comments would be appreciated. Ya, $2000 - $3000 per year is a pretty average number, and should let you get some good education.. Don't let the managment give you the 'if we train them, they'll just go get better jobs line either' :) .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 10:29:58 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:29:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL Hosting References: Message-ID: <39A14229.CA92DB99@five2one.org> John - I worte up a lil-something a couple weeks ago in response to a person who had a similar question: http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20000807/001921.html Let me know if you need more info :) .djc. John Snippe wrote: > > Anybody hosting on a ADSL line (640kbps). Does this work? > > Later...JS From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 10:31:17 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:31:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <399E722E.17892.9A391@localhost> Message-ID: <39A14277.A278FA61@five2one.org> Garrett Coakley wrote: > > [snip] > > > Just wondered what people might think, or if you had opinions or if > > that would be a bad idea or what :) > > Yeah, go for it. > > open source good, closed source baaaaad > > One thing (but I'm sure you've thought of this), lets say it goes > really well, will the current set up be able to handle all the > traffic? *:) All the traffic from being partnered with OSDN? Without a doubt.. (of course, now that i've just jinxed myself, expect a tsunami to hit oshkosh, wi and wipe out all my servers :) .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 10:39:09 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:39:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: Message-ID: <39A1444F.88DC25DE@five2one.org> Kingorbitao at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/21/00 9:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, gsd at mac.com > writes: > > << I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation methods. > Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> > > Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by the all-mighty > crippling "Slashdot-effect". True. Thats not to say we don't get a good amount of traffic though.. Even slashdot itself can't handle the amount of traffic it gets at times though :) If we got /.'d today would you be able to get to the evolt site? Sure. Would it be slow as shit? Sure. Would it still be up and running though? Sure. :) Also(in the much talked about, finally getting there stage) in evolt2.0 we're addressing alot of the scalability issues of the website.. It was more or less 'slapped' together just over a year ago and is pretty inefficient in a lot of places(select * from content; ? ouch!).. Jeff, myself, rudy, adrian, iSac and a host of others are all working on making it slash-proof, more or less :) We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. The website will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though than it does from any one or two or three people. .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 10:41:34 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:41:34 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: Message-ID: <39A144E0.59F31C28@five2one.org> Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca wrote: > now that we're running on linux/oracle, the slashdot effect can probably > no longer hit us > > dan? *ahem* well.. a typical /. effect is (what i've heard) something like 100000 page views in an hour. thats a lot for any server/s to handle.. we could handle it, it would probably just be slow. > a) this list (thelist) is *not* moderated, but the admins were > forced, on at least one occasion, to unsubscribe somebody > for not cleaning up his act yup, we've only ever kicked one person off thelist.. not bad for 1.5 years > b) the web site (evolt.org) *is* moderated, but for suitability > only -- the admins typically do not approve "articles" that > are, say, press releases, requests for site critiques, in > poor taste, etc. > > A. "suitability" as defined by the admins > B. "poor taste" as defined by the admins > C. we are always looking for new admins +1 > also, the admins are not gods... doh! there goes my ego rudy ;) .djc. From Anthony at Baratta.com Mon Aug 21 10:44:09 2000 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:44:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] $varaibles in perl References: <002901c00a79$b03110a0$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> <399F8E4E.E179DB9C@Baratta.com> <007701c00b37$71c64560$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <39A14D98.12487BF9@Baratta.com> Adrian Fischer wrote: > > Heres another one for you. The script I have has a gazillion "print" > statements in it. I have progressively gone through it and started to > rewrite it and use print <<"EOF"; to encompass complete pages of outputted > . Is this supposed to make the script faster or just ease up the > workload for the server. I realise that every iteration of "print" is a hit > on the server (at least that's what I thought) so how does getting rid of > lots of them impacted on the compilation of the script as far as the viewer > is concerned? This is what I currently do.... I stuff everything I print iteratively into a single variable ( e.g. $PageHTML) $PageHTML =. "blah bah blah\n"; $PageHTML =. "blah bah blah\n"; Rise, lather, repeat. Then issue one print statement for the program throwing everything at once back to the browser. print $PageHTML; If you go to: http://www.dairycouncilofca.org/hl/hl_pnp_inpu.htm This is program I wrote about a year ago and uses this method. As you can see on the 'results' pages, there is a heavy use of html, with out templates. The results are returned quite snappy. And this is not a very powerful web server. -- Anthony Baratta President KeyBoard Jockeys South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!! http://www.baratta.com/southpark Powered by Tsunami From Kingorbitao at aol.com Mon Aug 21 10:48:52 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:48:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: In a message dated 8/21/00 10:45:05 AM Central Daylight Time, djc at five2one.org writes: << We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. The website will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though than it does from any one or two or three people. >> If Thelist is never going to be moderated, are we going to start some sort of entrance-controls on who can join as to prevent /.-style trolling (i.e. "I responded to this question first!!!!! hahahahahahahhahahaha") on Thelist? From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Aug 21 10:51:58 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:51:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA70@SBS> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821164823.00b972f0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 15:56 21/08/00, Steve Cook wrote: >the extreme trolling behaviour that we see >nowadays at /. actually started at a site called Sluggy Freelance (I >believe) and spread to Slashdot when they (SF) changed their policy about >anonymous posting. And we don't allow anonymous posting - the deal is you can make a contribution, with the responsibility and accountability which comes from registration. Now people can of course *lie* on their reg forms, but that's an extra step which many trollers won't take. We don't check for valid email addresses (eg by sending a confirm code which users must enter before they can post anything - it may not be a bad idea). Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOaFP3HHoHnCoNczLEQLrwACggMvqMYHdpo5/SuBkWqxyg5u3LXgAoMWE a35pl6yDY5Ia6YBo9tdIAnkM =mQcR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Aug 21 10:56:58 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:56:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <200008211516.IAA19864@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821165145.00b7e740@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:13 21/08/00, you wrote: > > also, the admins are not gods... > >but we don't mind tithing and other forms of worship... Intoxicant offerings are always good... (21 year-old Bowmore for me, please) and I'm sure that some would be happy for offers of unpaid labour, virgins, firstborn children, etc etc etc... A regular supply of full stops for these ellipses wouldn't go amiss either... Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOaFQsXHoHnCoNczLEQIbfACbBNCNcQ4yNvMemmCyC4A6wapnWoUAnj0r jBWDWD3z7ZUSYL0shutsOnZi =hjJk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Aug 21 11:00:38 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:00:38 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A1444F.88DC25DE@five2one.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821165548.00baea50@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:01 21/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and >some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. In that we don't and won't approve each post. We *may* take issue with, give warnings to and ultimately boot individuals who are creating havoc. >The website >will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though >than it does from any one or two or three people. And the best moderation is from the community itself - the ill-advised humour we had the other week? It was non-admins who complained about it. If someone starts misbehaving on thelist, the principle response will be to address the concerns of other members. If it's not upsetting anyone, what's the problem? Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOaFRlHHoHnCoNczLEQJUCQCg6vD8ZP7lROU8MPaFHjkct494izIAn02H h8tAg5n+7NxrqwDS39zI85ve =eLpT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Aug 21 11:00:42 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:00:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A144E0.59F31C28@five2one.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821165901.00b81700@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:04 21/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > > also, the admins are not gods... > >doh! there goes my ego rudy ;) Well of course, you and Rudy are gods. Not Gods, just gods. Rather like someone said to Zaphod: "Not *the* Zaphod Beeblebrox?!?!" "No, just *a* Zaphod Beeblebrox. We come as six-packs in breakfast cereal" Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOaFSKXHoHnCoNczLEQJ4CgCghBXVAP3+cldVLuCtZ64xztHjgQMAoKh+ UyB7P31k6Ug5jxbtAvnp5K0E =GPji -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu Mon Aug 21 11:02:38 2000 From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:02:38 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu In-Reply-To: <39A1444F.88DC25DE@five2one.org> Message-ID: <39A10C1E.13811.2A399B@localhost> Hi, I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item to open a new window that I can size. I have figured out the javascript to open a new window but have tried every way I can think of to size it to no effect. Do any of you know how to do this? I promised this as a feature of a website to be launched Wednesday with no idea that it would be so problematic! Any help would be more than greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Suellen Date sent: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:01:35 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] open source development network Send reply to: thelist at lists.evolt.org Kingorbitao at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/21/00 9:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, > gsd at mac.com writes: > > << I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation > methods. > Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> > > Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by the > all-mighty crippling "Slashdot-effect". True. Thats not to say we don't get a good amount of traffic though.. Even slashdot itself can't handle the amount of traffic it gets at times though :) If we got /.'d today would you be able to get to the evolt site? Sure. Would it be slow as shit? Sure. Would it still be up and running though? Sure. :) Also(in the much talked about, finally getting there stage) in evolt2.0 we're addressing alot of the scalability issues of the website.. It was more or less 'slapped' together just over a year ago and is pretty inefficient in a lot of places(select * from content; ? ouch!).. Jeff, myself, rudy, adrian, iSac and a host of others are all working on making it slash-proof, more or less :) We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. The website will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though than it does from any one or two or three people. .djc. --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! Suellen Stringer-Hye Jean and Alexander Heard Library Vanderbilt University stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu From madhu at asiacontent.com Mon Aug 21 11:02:49 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:02:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] whatis.com redesigned into uselessness. In-Reply-To: <20000821140904.DEE81A902F@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821210648.00b818d0@203.197.60.113> >quite an interesting difference in tone, eh? From that message, it sounds like the gentleman was a poor techie (like some of us) who had to fight the tyranny of management and the "suits". God, I hate those clueless management types. >he also asked about content management systems (expressing doubt that they >would switch from vignette at this point) so in my reply back to him, i >pointed him to martin's article http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=1449 >and the camworld page http://www.camworld.com/cms/ OK. I've got to ask here. Exactly why on earth did they NEED to move to StoryServer? We have some guys inhouse who underwent training on it and I can tell you that it is a *very* labour intensive process to get it up and running. (So much so that CNET USA has recommended to us that none of the Asian CNET sites migrate to it, due to the manpower required; and they built the damn thing). Exactly what is so complex about the content management requirements for whatis.com? At the end of the day, it revolves around a database of terms and their definitions. Relatively simply DB design. Heck, coding the entire site should be a day's job on most platform/db combinations. (OK, I'm talking about the core programming part). Why deploy expensive technology like Vignette? My guess is that some suit (the kind Rudy loves - not) said, "Hey, apparently CNET, ZDNET, Industry Standard, and many of the big tech sites out there use StoryServer. Let's go implement it too. Then we too will be in the big league." and a stupid purchase decision was made. Bah! God, I hate those clueless pointy haired bosses. Unfortunately, I have not yet been fortunate enough to work with a techie who made it to the top position. It's usually the blue chip MBA who seems to be there. >i also went into some detail explaining why those lovely self-descriptive >urls such as http://www.whatis.com/icejello.htm should be preserved >(translated, redirected, whatever) instead of ending >up in 404s The least they could have done was have a custom 404 error page that would extract the term out of the URL, search their database, and then redirect them to the correct page for this automatically. Again, an hour or two of coding at most. But how much annoyance and anger has it generated on this list alone? All avoidable... Oh well, I guess someone must write an article about things to do when doing a redesign. Enough ranting now, I think. Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 11:12:35 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:12:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: Message-ID: <39A14C25.19E61819@five2one.org> Kingorbitao at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/21/00 10:45:05 AM Central Daylight Time, > djc at five2one.org writes: > > << We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and > some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. The website > will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though > than it does from any one or two or three people. >> > > If Thelist is never going to be moderated, are we going to start some sort of > entrance-controls on who can join as to prevent /.-style trolling (i.e. "I > responded to this question first!!!!! hahahahahahahhahahaha") on Thelist? There are entrance controls right now actually.. I approve every list subscription request(not the messages, but just requests for people that want to get on thelist). I've never not approved anyone, but if someone abuses, gets booted off and tries to resubscribe, it will be a bit more difficult for them. And seriously, I think people realize that this community is a complete 180 from slashdot in the way things are done :) .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 11:13:25 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:13:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821164823.00b972f0@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <39A14C57.B8DBDC15@five2one.org> martin burns wrote: > We don't check for valid email addresses (eg by sending a confirm > code which users must enter before they can post anything - it > may not be a bad idea). This is a feature in evolt2.0 :) .djc. From keni at barwick.net Mon Aug 21 11:14:00 2000 From: keni at barwick.net (Keni Barwick) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:14:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] bgproperties="fixed" in a table cell? Message-ID: <20000821161359.C6684A9032@lists.evolt.org> Is this possible? I know bgproperties="fixed" does not work for Netscape, but will it work for IE in a table? Thanks in advance. Keni From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu Mon Aug 21 11:14:26 2000 From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:14:26 2000 Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL Message-ID: <39A1559E.37A02388@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Dear evolta, I don't know if this is syntatically legal, but it should be logically correct. I'd like to update two fields of a row in one SQL statement. I've been using the following (without much success): UPDATE TableName SET FirstField='New Value 1' AND SecondField='New Value 2' WHERE ID='#form.ID#' It hasn't worked both with and without the single quote marks for the ID, which is an autonumber in Access. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. From erika at seastorm.com Mon Aug 21 11:15:39 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:15:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] Help with a dhtml script please!!!!! In-Reply-To: <39A0FB891B5.64CBVIDMAN@planet.net.au> References: <39A0AEB029F.A998VIDMAN@planet.net.au> <200008210910.KAA50369@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> <39A0FB891B5.64CBVIDMAN@planet.net.au> Message-ID: http://www.vidmandesign.com/odysseyhouse/menu3.html I didn't have any problems with IE5 Mac. J David Eisenberg has a series in A List Apart called "DOM Tricks" which shows how to create similar effects in IE5/Mozilla. Not the same, similar. A list of back articles is here: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/index.html My approach to these things is, when I get to this point, to ask myself if the effect is really worth the headache and/or cross-platform issues. Often I say 'no' but You may say 'yes.' Good luck with it. Erika >Hmm.. i have one mac person with IE5 that was fine and another that >stuffed up! *sigh* > >Oh for consistancy...*sigh* > >vid > >PS- So far no one has a fix for NN6... any takers? >Free design/work/help for anyone who has a cure! erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From RLuth at telxon.com Mon Aug 21 11:49:06 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:49:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D70A@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi Gang, I'm sure someone else has been through this ... so I'm asking for more experienced help. I have a domain registered through Joker in Germany. I just signed up for hosting through Webtrader in Australia. I need to move the domain. (I have the new Primary and Secondary name server and IP information.) Here is the "tricky" part .... It looks to me like Webtrader is registered through Internic .... But that Joker likes to use Core .... And (so it would seem) .... Internic and Core don't like talking to each other. .... And the solution is? Ron (Confused in Texas) From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Aug 21 11:50:26 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:50:26 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu In-Reply-To: <39A10C1E.13811.2A399B@localhost> References: <39A1444F.88DC25DE@five2one.org> Message-ID: <200008211650.JAA25076@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Suellen Stringer-Hye > > I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item to open a > new window that I can size. I have figured out the javascript to open > a new window but have tried every way I can think of to size it to no > effect. Do any of you know how to do this? I promised this as a [snip] first off, please trim the old post you used to post this... second, do you have a sample of the code posted somewhere? some sample code is at http://womantowomanvideos.org/about/index.html, if you click on the names in the caption... From jay at weberrific.org Mon Aug 21 12:09:43 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:09:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu Message-ID: <200008211709.NAA32546@server5000.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Suellen Stringer-Hye [mailto:Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu] > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:02 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu > > > Hi, > > I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item to open a > new window that I can size. I have figured out the javascript to open > a new window but have tried every way I can think of to size it to > no effect. Do any of you know how to do this? I promised this as > a feature of a website to be launched Wednesday with no idea that > it would be so problematic! > Any help would be more than greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > Suellen Okay, try this: Untitled - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From Kathleen.Howell-1 at kmail.ksc.nasa.gov Mon Aug 21 12:23:25 2000 From: Kathleen.Howell-1 at kmail.ksc.nasa.gov (Howell, Katie) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:23:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL Message-ID: <01A056931BA6D011AE630000F84A801204F87F70@kscmbs41.ksc.nasa.gov> Don't think you need the AND. Try: UPDATE Tablename Set firstfield='newvalue', secondfield='secondvalue' where ID=#form.id# -----Original Message----- From: Minh Lee Goon [mailto:v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:15 PM To: evolt Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL Dear evolta, I don't know if this is syntatically legal, but it should be logically correct. I'd like to update two fields of a row in one SQL statement. I've been using the following (without much success): UPDATE TableName SET FirstField='New Value 1' AND SecondField='New Value 2' WHERE ID='#form.ID#' It hasn't worked both with and without the single quote marks for the ID, which is an autonumber in Access. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jaylard at equilon.com Mon Aug 21 12:28:09 2000 From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James)) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:28:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] bgproperties="fixed" in a table cell? Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB04@mzrmsx02.newcos.com> Keni, > I know bgproperties="fixed" does not work for Netscape, but will it work for > IE in a table? The proprietary "bgproperties" attribute, introduced with IE3, only applies to the element. In point of fact, however, this attribute is totally unnecessary since the W3C style sheet background property (more specifically, the background-attachment property) achieves the exact same thing. It even works in IE3 if applied as part of the shorthand "background" property (IE3 doesn't support the standalone background-attachment property). To answer your specific question, no, IE will not support a "fixed" background on tables, even using CSS (the CSS1 spec does specify that background-attachment applies to all elements, however not even Mozilla M17, in my tests, correctly handles a fixed background on a table -- in fact, M17 seems to botch CSS table backgrounds altogether). hth, James Aylard jaylard at equilon.com From RLuth at telxon.com Mon Aug 21 12:34:49 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:34:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D70B@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi Gang, Please disregard ... I seem to have stumbled my way through the process. Thanks! Ron -----Original Message----- From: Luther, Ron [mailto:RLuth at telxon.com] Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker From rwhite at edverify.com Mon Aug 21 12:36:52 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:36:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu Message-ID: subWindow = window.open(foopage,'SUB','resizable=yes,status=yes,width=' + window_width + ',height=' + window_height + ',top=' + window_top + ',left=' + window_left + ',scrollbars=yes,menubar=yes,toolbar=yes,location=yes') Any questions? HTH, Ron -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Suellen Stringer-Hye Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:02 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu Hi, I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item to open a new window that I can size. I have figured out the javascript to open a new window but have tried every way I can think of to size it to no effect. Do any of you know how to do this? I promised this as a feature of a website to be launched Wednesday with no idea that it would be so problematic! Any help would be more than greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Suellen Date sent: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:01:35 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] open source development network Send reply to: thelist at lists.evolt.org Kingorbitao at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/21/00 9:08:00 AM Central Daylight Time, > gsd at mac.com writes: > > << I think we're doing pretty well now without extensive moderation > methods. > Evolt has a balance that ti might not be wise to play with. >> > > Ah, yes. But right now, we haven't barely been affected by the > all-mighty crippling "Slashdot-effect". True. Thats not to say we don't get a good amount of traffic though.. Even slashdot itself can't handle the amount of traffic it gets at times though :) If we got /.'d today would you be able to get to the evolt site? Sure. Would it be slow as shit? Sure. Would it still be up and running though? Sure. :) Also(in the much talked about, finally getting there stage) in evolt2.0 we're addressing alot of the scalability issues of the website.. It was more or less 'slapped' together just over a year ago and is pretty inefficient in a lot of places(select * from content; ? ouch!).. Jeff, myself, rudy, adrian, iSac and a host of others are all working on making it slash-proof, more or less :) We're also addressing the moderation issue with ratings for articles and some other Cool Things. Thelist will *never* be moderated. The website will be moderated to a point. The moderation comes more from here though than it does from any one or two or three people. .djc. --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! Suellen Stringer-Hye Jean and Alexander Heard Library Vanderbilt University stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 12:44:11 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:44:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL References: <39A1559E.37A02388@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Message-ID: <39A1619E.57FD4CCE@five2one.org> Minh Lee Goon wrote: > > Dear evolta, > I don't know if this is syntatically legal, but it should be logically > correct. I'd like to update two fields of a row in one SQL statement. > I've been using the following (without much success): > UPDATE TableName > SET FirstField='New Value 1' > AND SecondField='New Value 2' > WHERE ID='#form.ID#' Hey minh - try this: update tablename set firstfield='blah', secondfield='blah2', thirdfield='you get the picture' where id='#form.id#' that should be the syntax you're looking for. .djc. From CDitty at email.usps.gov Mon Aug 21 12:51:32 2000 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Christopher Ditty) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:51:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Message-ID: <0033000002971405000002L052*@MHS> Tell Webtrader to get registered with Core. If you switch the domain to Internic, you loose ownership. In Internic's eyes, you are just renting the name. In Joker's eyes, you own it. Plus, Internic has the right to take the domain away from you if they don't like/agree with it. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is right on the money. CDitty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Author: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org at INTERNET Date: 8/21/00 1:34 PM Hi Gang, I'm sure someone else has been through this ... so I'm asking for more experienced help. I have a domain registered through Joker in Germany. I just signed up for hosting through Webtrader in Australia. I need to move the domain. (I have the new Primary and Secondary name server and IP information.) Here is the "tricky" part .... It looks to me like Webtrader is registered through Internic .... But that Joker likes to use Core .... And (so it would seem) .... Internic and Core don't like talking to each other. .... And the solution is? Ron (Confused in Texas) --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Mon Aug 21 12:52:04 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:52:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL Message-ID: > UPDATE TableName > SET FirstField='New Value 1' > AND SecondField='New Value 2' > WHERE ID='#form.ID#' hi minh lee ms access autonumbers should not have quotes but that's not what's causing your error change it to UPDATE TableName SET FirstField='New Value 1' , SecondField='New Value 2' WHERE ID='#form.ID#' rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Mon Aug 21 12:52:41 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:52:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu Message-ID: > I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item > to open a new window that I can size. I have figured > out the javascript to open a new window but have tried > every way I can think of to size it to no effect. > Do any of you know how to do this? hi suellen here's what i've used in the past to dynamically set window sizes -- i call it with an href like this -- foo but you can easily write this as an onChange for your jump menu SELECT notice i add 20 pixels to the dimensions, this isn't really necessary,. i just like to be safe in case i'm passing in a picture as the url, that way i think i cover enough space for the default margins which i think are 10 in most cases you could also parameterize the chrome, but those values are the ones i always use on popups i guess i could also shorten "toolbar=0,location=0,directories=0,status=0,menubar=0,resizable=1" to just "resizable" but since i always cut & paste from the last time i wrote code, i just leave them in there in case i ever want to change the options (which reminds me, i'm afraid i'm gonna have to look up screenx the next time i need it again... ) rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From sgd at ti3.com Mon Aug 21 12:56:09 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:56:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201256E@gate.ti3.com> > > > >

> > > > > > > ** Make sure you set the value to the URL you want to open. > Something like: > > > kishes > sgd Ulp. Heh. Heh. Sorry about that - missed that in my post. Thanks, Scott. Wipes Forehead - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From johns at cybernautica.com Mon Aug 21 14:13:33 2000 From: johns at cybernautica.com (John Snippe) Date: Mon Aug 21 14:13:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL-based hosting & email Message-ID: I am negotiating with PSINet for an aSDL 640/2.2 link that would allow me to create a webserver host. They are telling me that I am allowed to serve webpages, but in the fine print there is a clause that tells me that: "B. Use of the Service. Service is limited to Customer, wholly owned affiliates of Customer, Customer's staff, and Customer's consultants performing work for Customer. Any third party traffic is prohibited, except Customer may host world-wide web sites on behalf of third parties, but may not send any posting (including e-mail) from that third party back to PSINet's Network or the Internet through the Service." Thsi indicates to me that legally I am unable to set up mailserver activities for my webhosted clients. My question: is this legalese bafflegab, or is PSINet likely to enforce if I indeed go ahead and set up mailserver access? Understand that I get a bundle of static IP's and that PSINet is fully willing and cognisant regarding my webhosting. It is the email thing that has me baffled. On a purely functional level: how would PSINet be able to discern that I had indeed gone ahead and set up a mailserver? Thanks.... JS From sbrady00 at pacbell.net Mon Aug 21 14:18:56 2000 From: sbrady00 at pacbell.net (Scott Brady) Date: Mon Aug 21 14:18:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] Miva Merchant (and other off-the-shelf carts) Message-ID: <003a01c00ba3$b85dbe60$416afea9@dsbrady> I'm working with another web developer with proposing an online store for a small business. I'm researching some off-the-shelf shopping cart systems (so we can propose some off-the-shelf solutions along with a custom-built one) and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them. Specifically, our web host (crystaltech) already provides a Miva Merchant license for their $50 plan, and it looks good (and the demo works pretty well . . . unlike some other carts I've seen). Any comments on Miva Merchant? We're looking for: 1) Detailed reporting 2) Being able to incorporate the current site's look and feel into the ordering section. 3) Highly customizable. Thanks for any help. Scott Brady (writing in from home) --------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From dcody at oracular.com Mon Aug 21 14:19:42 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 14:19:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] FWD: Javascript advice, please Message-ID: <39A180DD.25571327@oracular.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:10:42 +1200 From: "Duncan O'Neill" Organization: The Urban Legend magazine X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Javascript advice, please Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Hey all, I'm a Javascript novice, trying to nut out a solution for displaying random headlines from an Array, and letting the user change them on mouse click. I've figured out how to do it by reloading the page and not using a function, but I want to do it with an onClick event calling a function which uses document.write....... problem is, when I try this method the page itself goes blank, the document.write over-writes everything except the headline. Can someone tell me how I can prevent this happening? Any advice gratefully received, cheers, Duncan From design at cybernautica.com Mon Aug 21 14:49:36 2000 From: design at cybernautica.com (John Snippe) Date: Mon Aug 21 14:49:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL Hosting In-Reply-To: <39A14229.CA92DB99@five2one.org> References: <39A14229.CA92DB99@five2one.org> Message-ID: On 8/21/00, regarding " Re: [thelist] DSL Hosting ", Daniel J. Cody offered the following: >John - > >I worte up a lil-something a couple weeks ago in response to a person >who had a similar question: > >http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20000807/001921.html > >Let me know if you need more info :) Thanks, Daniel. Much of what is in that article would not apply to my situation... but not all. I will study some of those implications! From Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov Mon Aug 21 15:12:27 2000 From: Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov (Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:12:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] Column Width Not Working in Netscape Communicator 4.7 Message-ID: <85256942.006E9528.00@it008nthqln.tco.census.gov> Can someone take a look at the following HTML page: http://www.census.gov/acs/checklistadd.htm It is very short and simple. All styles are kept in the style sheet: http://www.census.gov/acs/index.css I cannot get the fields that hold the month, day and year to line up next to each other. I have tried to expand this column and shorten the rightmost column (the field that holds the Document #) but nothing works. Can anyone give me any insight please? Why cannot I shorten one column and expand the other? P.S. I am using Netscape Communicator 4.7 on NTW 4.0 SP6a with a resolution of 800x600. Greg From kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com Mon Aug 21 15:12:54 2000 From: kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com (kev.skindrill) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:12:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] Site ridicule References: Message-ID: <00b301c00bac$8ef9f440$f89a883e@y3s2e7> Thanks very much for the info ladies & gents, you have all been terribly kind & gentle :) There are a few things that were bought up that I would like to explain & perhaps get more feedback on. If this were my site, I would get rid of the purple strips. I think they are way too strong and it also looks like you don't have all your links filled in.Also, you don't have that many links, so I don't think you need to run a whole purple panel down the left side. This was deliberate because I thought a solid stripe would look to overpowering. Do you not think that having a strip breaks up the page somewhat? This was the effect I was trying to achieve and I do kinda like it, but I am open to any other suggestions you might have. Why would you want the quote delivered by multiple media? Funny btw. </snip> The reason for this is that the customers often want their quotes delivered verbally as well as a hard copy for their files. <snip> You're using the same colors for active and visited links. This is sure to confuse. you should use different colors </snip> Now this I do feel quite strongly about. I have done this deliberately so as not to spoil the colour scheme. I realise it is traditional for visited links to show up as a different colour but on a site like this, is it really necessary? If you were spending a lot of time on a site with many pages I realise that a visual guide to what you have already looked at is a good thing, but on my site I felt that it wasn't necessary to know if you'ld looked at the map page or not. I could have used images for the links in which case they would not change if a page had been visited. Sorry, that sounded like a rant which it wasn't meant to be. I just wanted to explain why I did something & see if anyone else agrees with my logic or if I will forever be an outcast :) Thanks also for all the info on style sheets. It's kinda difficult to know the best way of approaching web design. I have basically spent the last few months with my head buried in books learning languages so I think it's now time to concentrate on the other details. I think most newbies will agree with me that it is a pretty steep learning curve & it's difficult to prioritize. I had to get this site up pretty quickly because my boss has suddenly decided he wants a web presence (even though I had all the basic stuff written months ago!). So, rest assured I have taken everything on board & will try to correct all the faults you have mentioned. And I thought I wouldn't have much to do once I'd finished this :) K From keni at barwick.net Mon Aug 21 15:23:30 2000 From: keni at barwick.net (Keni Barwick) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:23:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] bgproperties="fixed" in a table cell? References: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB04@mzrmsx02.newcos.com> Message-ID: <000701c00bad$7759de80$466bfea9@rosiemead> great thanks for that, you just proved my point to MY boss!!! I am now gunna gloat like hell tommorow!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Aylard JA (James) <jaylard at equilon.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] bgproperties="fixed" in a table cell? > Keni, > > > I know bgproperties="fixed" does not work for Netscape, but will it work > for > > IE in a table? > > The proprietary "bgproperties" attribute, introduced with IE3, only > applies to the <body> element. In point of fact, however, this attribute is > totally unnecessary since the W3C style sheet background property (more > specifically, the background-attachment property) achieves the exact same > thing. It even works in IE3 if applied as part of the shorthand "background" > property (IE3 doesn't support the standalone background-attachment > property). > To answer your specific question, no, IE will not support a "fixed" > background on tables, even using CSS (the CSS1 spec does specify that > background-attachment applies to all elements, however not even Mozilla M17, > in my tests, correctly handles a fixed background on a table -- in fact, M17 > seems to botch CSS table backgrounds altogether). > > hth, > James Aylard > jaylard at equilon.com > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From jmorehead at alphalincoln.com Mon Aug 21 15:29:14 2000 From: jmorehead at alphalincoln.com (Jason Morehead) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:29:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] Column Width Not Working in Netscape Communicator 4.7 In-Reply-To: <85256942.006E9528.00@it008nthqln.tco.census.gov> References: <85256942.006E9528.00@it008nthqln.tco.census.gov> Message-ID: <a04310100b5c741498340@[207.91.25.33]> >I cannot get the fields that hold the month, day and year to line up next to >each other. I have tried to expand this column and shorten the >rightmost column >(the field that holds the Document #) but nothing works. Can anyone >give me any >insight please? Why cannot I shorten one column and expand the other? i'm looking at it with communicator 4.73 on a mac and it looks fine to me. the fields are lined up next to eachother. jason -- http://www.alphalincoln.com/ alphagraphics of nebraska - web services 201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508 - 402.475.0000 From framar at interlog.com Mon Aug 21 15:29:28 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:29:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF Techniques? Message-ID: <p04310101b5c73c70b6e2@[64.229.76.214]> I've got a situation with the following elements: A search form w/ 10 criteria A list page with the queries to fulfill the criteria, based on form.* At the bottom of the list page is a next/prev URL The problem is that on the first search, all goes fine, but when I've clicked the next link (with startrow number and criteria appended), the list doesn't read the criteria. My interim solution is to create two query pages, one that responds to For.* another which responds to URL.* This leads me to questions on how I can improve this: 1) Is there a way of saying "if this page is called with no form criteria" without using 10 ParameterExists() for 10 criteria? 2) Is there a way of setting up my query so that it responds to either a URL or FORM query, without doubling it in size? I'm trying to find ways to make my code as general and efficient as possible. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Column Width Not Working in Netscape Communicator 4.7 Message-ID: <OF6C69FC20.95DB4723-ON85256942.0070B8F3@1.10.196> hi greg gee i hope you don't get a slew of identical answers to your question ;o) (dan, f.y.i. maybe it's my mail system but i'm not seeing the posts until approx 30 minutes after they're posted and i can't tell if they've been answered yet within that time span...) here's what you have, greg: <td width="200px" class="EvalCheckListBody"> <input class="EvalCheckList" id="intMonth" maxlength="2" name="intMonth" size="2" tabindex="1" [snip] (nice code, by the way -- comprehensive and easy to read) specify your cell widths without the px, i.e. width="200" if that doesn't work, try using "nowrap" (sorry, can't remember if this is html strict or not, i'm pretty sure it's html transitional) <td nowrap width="200" [snip] rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From sbienek at acep.org Mon Aug 21 15:51:41 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:51:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF Techniques? Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> Hi Frank, > 1) Is there a way of saying "if this page is called with no form > criteria" without using 10 ParameterExists() for 10 criteria? ParameterExists() is deprecated. Use IsDefined() instead. Actually, in this case, don't use either (see below). :) > 2) Is there a way of setting up my query so that it responds to > either a URL or FORM query, without doubling it in size? You can re-scope the variables. Then you're looking at looping through the variable list all though.. And you're wanting to avoid that, right? Why not use "Get" instead of "Post" for the original form, and instruct the action template to look for URL variables? This will expose your form data in the URL, but you are looking at doing that anyway, right? HTH, Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From RLuth at telxon.com Mon Aug 21 15:53:59 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:53:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D70E@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi Chris, Thanks ... I think I fumbled my way through it .... The problem was the 'oh so helpful" FAQ on Joker which says, in effect, "Hey moron, if you can't find it - just create a new record in the database and use that" ..... without telling you how to create that new record!! - instead they link you to the CORE member signup page!! I think I managed to get my domain moved. I'm not sure having Webtrader register with CORE would have been an option though ... it looked like a $10,000 fee to join CORE ... there HAD to be an easier way. Again ... thanks ... hopefully the re-delegation will 'propagate' tonight and I will have my first real live Internet sandbox to play in!!! .... And I've finally have a chance to apply all the 'cool stuff' y'all been showing me how to do! Got my fingers crossed!! :-) Ron -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Ditty [mailto:CDitty at email.usps.gov] Subject: Re: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Tell Webtrader to get registered with Core. If you switch the domain to From sgd at ti3.com Mon Aug 21 15:58:52 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:58:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] Updating two fields with SQL Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201256C@gate.ti3.com> > UPDATE TableName > SET FirstField='New Value 1' > AND SecondField='New Value 2' > WHERE ID='#form.ID#' > replace the AND with a comma: Update <table> Set Field1=value, Field2=value, Field3=value ... WHERE <clause> sgd From kuchlerdt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 21 16:05:20 2000 From: kuchlerdt at hotmail.com (Dave Kuchler) Date: Mon Aug 21 16:05:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] Client-side last-modified Message-ID: <LAW-F53hSsKAfHciBmj00001cfe@hotmail.com> Howdy, folks. I find myself in need of some assistance. Is there a way in some client-side scripting language (preferably Javascript, but I'll accept VBscript) to get the last-modified attribute of, for example, an image file that is linked in the document? I know how to do it in Perl, but that's not really practical for our environment (small office page, not even an intranet, as we're running it off someone's Windows shared folder, so there's no server software to parse SSI, Perl, or ASP). I know client-side won't produce results as accurate as server-side, but I'm just hoping there's a way. Any help would be most appreciated. TIA, Dave K. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From peg at anxietygirl.com Mon Aug 21 16:11:40 2000 From: peg at anxietygirl.com (peg at anxietygirl.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 16:11:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Site ridicule Message-ID: <20000821211152.22143.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://lists.evolt.org/pipermail/thelist/attachments/20000821/ae7f5679/attachment.txt> From jaylard at equilon.com Mon Aug 21 16:19:54 2000 From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James)) Date: Mon Aug 21 16:19:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] Client-side last-modified Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB0E@mzrmsx02.newcos.com> Dave, > Is there a way in some client-side scripting language (preferably > Javascript, but I'll accept VBscript) to get the last-modified attribute of, > for example, an image file that is linked in the document? For the document as a whole, yes, using the document.lastModified property -- but I don't think you can for individual elements within the document. If I've forgotten something, someone correct me. hth, James Aylard jaylard at equilon.com From framar at interlog.com Mon Aug 21 17:02:29 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Mon Aug 21 17:02:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF Techniques? In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> References: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> Message-ID: <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> At 3:51 PM -0500 8/21/00, Seth Bienek - Web Consultant wrote: > Why not use "Get" instead of "Post" for the original > form, and instruct the action template to look for URL variables? I would never have thought of that in a million years. Cool tip, I'm gonna try this one. Thanks! > You can re-scope the variables. Then you're looking at > looping through the variable list all though. Can you tell me more about the mechanics of this? Is there a way of making it so that I don't have to pre-write a list, but have something process the values that are passed anyway? I'm thinking that a good generic re-mailer, or something where a large dynamic form needs updating could be an example of the sort of thing where this could come in handy. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From sbienek at acep.org Mon Aug 21 17:29:15 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Mon Aug 21 17:29:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF Techniques? Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0469@SERVER04> Hi Frank, > Can you tell me more about the mechanics of this? Yes. Basically, you are checking for the existence of a form value, then setting a URL scoped variable if it exists.. Like this: <cfif IsDefined("Form.UserName")> <cfset URL.UserName = Form.UserName> </cfif> This will work with all scopes, as far as I know. > Is there a way of > making it so that I don't have to pre-write a list, but have > something process the values that are passed anyway? Yes. CF exposes a list of all formfields passed in a "post" operation, as a list named "form.fieldnames". How convenient! You can re-scope an entire form's worth of data very easily (in this case, to the URL Scope): <cfloop list = "#Form.Fieldnames#" index="ThisFormField"> <cfset "URL.#ThisFormField#" = "#evaluate("Form.#ThisFormField#")#"> </cfloop> You can also re-scope query results. I wrote a custom-tag to do this awhile back, for a Fusebox app I was working on. It's very simple code (20 lines, including comments), so I've pasted it in here as well. The idea was to re-scope query results into the "Attributes" scope, and auto-fill a form if a record existed. If not, then defaults were set for the form fields' corresponding "Attributes" variables... This custom tag takes two values, "Query" which is required, and is the name of the query you want to re-scope, and "Scope" (optional, defaults to "attributes"), which is the name of the scope you want the values translated into. It was for personal use, so it's not documented, but here's the code anyway, for those interested:  <cfsetting enablecfoutputonly="Yes">  <cfparam name="Attributes.Scope" default="Attributes">  <cfset QueryName = "caller." & Attributes.Query>  <cfset ColumnList = "#evaluate(QueryName & ".ColumnList")#">  <cfloop list = "#ColumnList#" index="fieldname"> <cfset "Caller.#Attributes.Scope#.#trim(fieldname)#" = "#evaluate("#QueryName#.#trim(fieldname)#")#"> </cfloop> <cfsetting enablecfoutputonly="No">  Re-scoping is also part of the FuseBox spec. If you're doing advanced level CF developing, I highly recommend having a look at: http://fusebox.org There is a custom tag there that also does re-scoping, called <cf_FormURL2Attributes> A winded, but hopefully helpful response. Take Care, Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From ross at designcc.com Mon Aug 21 17:55:11 2000 From: ross at designcc.com (J. Ross Dishner) Date: Mon Aug 21 17:55:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] Power Point To Video (OT) In-Reply-To: <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> References: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> Message-ID: <p04310100b5c763912a6f@[208.244.56.253]> Anybody ever put a Power Point slide show on video tape with a Mac. I've got video out ports but don't know how to get it to recognize the slide show to record... From mbarrett at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 21 18:56:38 2000 From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett) Date: Mon Aug 21 18:56:38 2000 Subject: [thelist] Power Point To Video (OT) In-Reply-To: <p04310100b5c763912a6f@[208.244.56.253]> Message-ID: <B5C739FF.C2D%mbarrett@triad.rr.com> if you have video out ports, you should have video mirroring as an option on your control strip. You should hook up a VCR ( with a TV if you can) to the video out ports, then restart the computer, make sure the VCR is on when you restart. The mac will recognize that there is a video device plugged in. Open your control strip control panel, and set a hot key to show/hide the control strip. (if you don't hide the control strip, you will see it on your video tape). Set up your Power point presentation to play full screen. select video mirroring from the control strip. Video mirroring will screw up the monitor display, but should appear fine on the video tape. use the hot key to hide the control strip. press record on the VCR start the Power Point presentation. when your done recording, stop the tape, show the control strip, turn off video mirroring, tada! -- Michael -O^O- - From framar at interlog.com Mon Aug 21 19:00:45 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Mon Aug 21 19:00:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF Techniques? In-Reply-To: <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> References: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> Message-ID: <p04310106b5c7722354c1@[64.229.76.214]> At 6:02 PM -0400 8/21/00, Frank wrote: >> Why not use "Get" instead of "Post" for the original >> form, and instruct the action template to look for URL variables? >I would never have thought of that in a million years. >Cool tip, I'm gonna try this one. Thanks! This worked perfectly. I think this warrants it's place in the tip hall of fame. <tip type="Cold Fusion" Author="Seth Bienek"> Q: Is there a way of setting up a query in Cold Fusion so that it responds to either a URL or FORM query? A: Why not use "Get" instead of "Post" for the original form, and instruct the action template to look for URL variables? It works! </tip> -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From sgd at ti3.com Mon Aug 21 19:02:04 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Aug 21 19:02:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL-based hosting & email Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172012570@gate.ti3.com> > Thsi indicates to me that legally I am unable to set up mailserver > activities for my webhosted clients. My question: is this legalese > bafflegab, or is PSINet likely to enforce if I indeed go ahead and > set up mailserver access? Assume they would enforce it. Especially since hosting a website is fine (and they probably don't expect you to draw a ton of traffic, in which case they'd strongly request you move it to their servers), but hosting email is a burden because of the potential traffic loads, not to mention PSINet is covering their asses if they shut you down cause you were running a spam server > > On a purely functional level: how would PSINet be able to discern > that I had indeed gone ahead and set up a mailserver? > They'd literally see the activity going back and forth. They say don't do it, don't do it. I'm sure PSINet is willing to work with you (read: charge more) if you want to provide email services for your clients, just be aware that doing so may mean letting PSINet be the mail host, not you. Hope this helps-- sgd -- think safely From isaac at triplezero.com.au Mon Aug 21 20:55:23 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Mon Aug 21 20:55:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA6B@SBS> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> why would we join up? i've just visited the site. it's a page (with 3 ads) that just shows me headlines (about a page down the site too) from their preferred sites (including themes.org with headlines like "Artwiz Draws Caricatures" ??). they're trying to increase readership of their other sites, providing a central point from where everyone can access this information (and conveniently see all their banner ads on the way...). evolt.org is not about developing "open source software" (from the site: "providing the Open Source Community with the online tools needed to develop, distribute, and discuss Open Source Software.") - we're about helping web developers wherever they might be working, and whatever they might be working on. i don't think that we're here to take sides on the open/closed source debate, or push our community into using specific software. our site is developed by the community. the source of what we build is available for everyone to learn new techniques, and even build other communities. but we're not about open source. regardless of source availability, we're about helping developers service their audience. we're evolt.org, not a subset, nor a part, of a banner-toting "vortal". also, i'd rather increase membership (if that's what you're after) by increasing awareness of evolt within web agencies worldwide, rather than aligning with an open source network and a community, elements of which constantly torture slashdot forums with bullshit and misinformation. some members of evolt.org have griped about the lack of design-related threads. they're right, and there are alot of backend threads which are too advanced for many readers. talking to agencies and getting more designers and frontend people on board in the process could do a good job of balancing thelist. if every member of evolt (yes, even those that lurk) emailed another web firm within their home town/city, and suggested that their developers check us out, we'd be doing alot more for: - those developers - increasing their skills - their audience - getting them to build better sites (more accessible, etc) - the web as a whole - a more usable, attractive, etc web is a nicer web etc let me know what you think, isaac > >OSDN, sponsored by VA Linux is a 'vortal'(sorry, i hate the word too :) > >for the open source community that is just getting started. They're > >looking for partners for content for their site, and I wondered what you > >all thought if we got evolt submitted to become a 'partner'? > > <SNIP> > > > Just wondered what people might think, or if you had opinions > > or if that > > would be a bad idea or what :) > > > > http://www.osdn.org From isaac at triplezero.com.au Mon Aug 21 21:24:47 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Mon Aug 21 21:24:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA6B@SBS> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > > Just wondered what people might think, or if you had opinions > > or if that > > would be a bad idea or what :) incidentally, this is not being discussed at all on the admin list (which is currently preoccupied with discussion about weddings (3 or so admins are planning weddings) and bitching about clients :p). i think it is a very telling sign that dan is able to ask the community as a whole for thoughts, rather than restrict all decisions to admin. and also get quality responses, considering all aspects, in return. another (cf) list i am on never ceases to amaze me with the lack of professionalism and community values. i laugh everytime one member threatens another with legal action over statements made, or one asks for another to be banned because he complained about someone referring to him as Lastname Firstname, instead of Firstname Lastname. i'm not joking... i think that evolt has become what we (founding members) had hoped it would become, and i am proud (awwww...) everytime a non-admin submits a great article, or a non-admin reminds people to trim their posts, not post attachments, change subject lines, etc (all the picky things that help to keep evolt lean and kickarse). we're kinda like a startup that did things correctly. we didn't rush. we didn't blow insane amounts of money. we didn't waste time going public. yet, we're more profitable than we could've imagined, and there's almost no money involved... isaac From muller at akdocs.com Mon Aug 21 21:33:41 2000 From: muller at akdocs.com (Conrad E. Muller) Date: Mon Aug 21 21:33:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #707 - 33 msgs References: <20000821225512.1FA6EA904D@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <39A1E684.75F5554D@akdocs.com> It sizes OK without the style sheet. Could that be a hint? Conrad ------------------------------------------- Can someone take a look at the following HTML page: http://www.census.gov/acs/checklistadd.htm It is very short and simple. All styles are kept in the style sheet: http://www.census.gov/acs/index.css I cannot get the fields that hold the month, day and year to line up next to each other. I have tried to expand this column and shorten the rightmost column (the field that holds the Document #) but nothing works. Can anyone give me any insight please? Why cannot I shorten one column and expand the other? P.S. I am using Netscape Communicator 4.7 on NTW 4.0 SP6a with a resolution of 800x600. Greg -- Conrad and Nora Muller Alaska Document Services 411 12th Street, Juneau, AK 99801 Voice: 907-586-5030 FAX: 907-586-5031 muller at akdocs.com http://www.akdocs.com From pmeeks at email.msn.com Mon Aug 21 21:51:11 2000 From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Patricia Meeks) Date: Mon Aug 21 21:51:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #707 - 33 msgs References: <20000821225512.1FA6EA904D@lists.evolt.org> <39A1E684.75F5554D@akdocs.com> Message-ID: <001d01c00be3$d06d9c60$224d83d0@fe51t> Yes, (It looks great in IE5) in NS, it won't work. The text for the input should be a monospace font. Also, with the size differences among browsers, you have those three boxes in a fixed table, that makes thing dicy. Try: font-family: {"Andale Mono", "Courier New", Courier, monospace; } for you input text. Also, I just read a good article on this problem, but I can't remember where ...anyone remember where it is? Regards, Pat > Can someone take a look at the following HTML page: > http://www.census.gov/acs/checklistadd.htm > It is very short and simple. All styles are kept in the style sheet: > http://www.census.gov/acs/index.css From erika at seastorm.com Mon Aug 21 21:55:02 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Mon Aug 21 21:55:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <v0422080bb5c7969ac0a0@[216.176.7.248]> Regarding evolt threads (front-end vs. back-end). I read & respond to what I can understand... let other do the same with what they understand. But it's an interesting observation. Having moved to a new town, I'm interviewing for web jobs. It is the first time I've lived in an area that offers more than one or two full-time web jobs. It feels like I have one foot in art-land and one in tech-land. What a strange trip is web design! I guess to embrace all of it, there needs to be a lot of tolerance between tech-oriented people and creative-types. This is easier said than done. But if anyone can do it, evolt can. I think that the idea of doing a locally-based word-of-mouth evangelism job for evolt is fantastic. Just in the normal course of networking, you know... an evolt article comes up, a thread, a particularly helpful post... BTW, any idea when we get to see that eagerly awaited redesign? Erika >if every member of evolt (yes, even those that lurk) emailed another web firm >within their home town/city, and suggested that their developers check us out, >we'd be doing alot more for: > > - those developers - increasing their skills > - their audience - getting them to build better sites (more accessible, etc) > - the web as a whole - a more usable, attractive, etc web is a nicer web > >etc > > >let me know what you think, > >isaac erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Aug 21 23:00:31 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:00:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <200008220400.VAA22135@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > Isaac Forman > [snip] > evolt.org is not about developing "open source > software" (from the site: > "providing the Open Source Community with the > online tools needed to develop, > distribute, and discuss Open Source Software.") - > we're about helping web > developers wherever they might be working, and > whatever they might be working > on. i don't think that we're here to take sides > on the open/closed source > debate, or push our community into using specific > software. who here considers ASP or CF to be open-source? Photoshop? hell, even the Flash format has proven to be less-than-open-source... no, we certainly aren't about open-source as a central (or remotely so) theme by any means... we're about helping one another, which is why there have been some OT posts that get quick responses, no flames, and nice 'OT' labels... we're about the web, but other stuff happens, and people here have other talents... it's a *community*, not an open-source forum... > we're evolt.org, not a subset, nor a part, of a > banner-toting "vortal". +1 > if every member of evolt (yes, even those that > lurk) emailed another web firm > within their home town/city, and suggested that > their developers check us out, [snip] i agree... i've evangelized the list around here (geographically), but there is an arrogant crop of folks who think they know all they need to know... some have joined up, some have balked... i'd rather have the ones who understand that they don't know it all... but i think that's a much better way to get subscribers than joining up with the OSDN... after all, i don't give a rat's kiester who's doing what with linux today, i just want my tips and threads... From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Aug 21 23:00:36 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:00:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: Razorfish retaliates - there's a reason for the cost Message-ID: <200008220400.VAA22635@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: martin burns > > > you mean using a database vs. using a static > page? cuz that > > alone doesn't warrant a factor of 10 > difference, let alone a factor > > of > > 1,000.... hell, even rolling out a full-bore > content tool and the > > like > > doesn't often justify a 10mil site... > > Yes, but the benefits of doing so may well do. fwiw, that was my comment, it was quoted by vlad (without '>'s, which is why i think you confused it)... but i still stand by the idea that rolling out a content-tool isn't worth 10mil... and i am aware of all the add-on expenses and the like... i think a few people covered it here... you are paying for the name, certainly not the skill... From gsd at mac.com Mon Aug 21 23:09:40 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:09:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker In-Reply-To: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D70E@ushoex1.telxon.com> Message-ID: <B5C82C5B.148DD%gsd@mac.com> I'm curious as to why you are changing registrars? with joker (also gandi) you are the acknowledged owner but with interbic registrars (like NSI) you have fewer rights. I am contemplating moving to gandi so I am curious as to why you are moving in the other direction... Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ I like living. I have sometimes been wildly, despairingly, acutely miserable, racked with sorrow, but through it all I still know quite certainly that just to be alive is a grand thing. --Agatha Christie > Thanks ... I think I fumbled my way through it .... > > The problem was the 'oh so helpful" FAQ on Joker which says, in effect, "Hey > moron, if you can't find it - just create a new record in the database and > use that" ..... without telling you how to create that new record!! - > instead they link you to the CORE member signup page!! > > I think I managed to get my domain moved. > > I'm not sure having Webtrader register with CORE would have been an option > though ... it looked like a $10,000 fee to join CORE ... there HAD to be an > easier way. > > Again ... thanks ... hopefully the re-delegation will 'propagate' tonight > and I will have my first real live Internet sandbox to play in!!! .... And > I've finally have a chance to apply all the 'cool stuff' y'all been showing > me how to do! From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 23:46:04 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:46:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Isaac Forman wrote: > > why would we join up? > > i've just visited the site. it's a page (with 3 ads) that just shows me > headlines (about a page down the site too) from their preferred sites (including > themes.org with headlines like "Artwiz Draws Caricatures" ??). 'artwiz' in this case was a handle for a person(Youngjin Hahn in this case, who has done some cool shit, just like .djc., .jeff, or iSac). > they're trying to increase readership of their other sites, providing a central > point from where everyone can access this information (and conveniently see all > their banner ads on the way...). I don't know if they're trying to increase readership. Most everyone that would use osdn is already aware of the sites its partnered with. I doubt they're trying to pimp slashdot, freshmeat, or geocrawler for more hits/users/page views. Those sites get an amazing amount of traffic the way it is. They're trying to make a site (for people like myself and others) for a quick 'one-stop-look' at the sites that audience likes. > evolt.org is not about developing "open source software" (from the site: > "providing the Open Source Community with the online tools needed to develop, also from the 'about' page: "The Open Source Development Network [OSDN] brings many of the Open Source community's favorite gathering places together and makes it easier tomove between them. SourceForge, freshmeat, Linux.com, Themes.org, Slashdot, and our other Web sites will stay as independent as ever, but now you'll be able to access all of them -- and other useful Open Source sites -- from a central entry point: OSDN.com" Note the independent line.. > distribute, and discuss Open Source Software.") - we're about helping web > developers wherever they might be working, and whatever they might be working > on. i don't think that we're here to take sides on the open/closed source > debate, or push our community into using specific software. You're 100% right. While we're about helping web developers and what they're(we're) working on - osdn is similar in that they're also helping devlopers(although not web at the time) with what they're working on. Its *not* just open source software. Its the ideas and actions that embody(sp?) the open source train of thought. Whether its C, Java, or Web technologies, we're all helping collegues with our respective disciplins(god i'm a bad speller) > our site is developed by the community. the source of what we build is available > for everyone to learn new techniques, and even build other communities. but > we're not about open source. regardless of source availability, we're about > helping developers service their audience. Don't think of open source as 'free shit'. The true open source manifesto is *exactly* what we're about. Sharing, helping, and advocating what we do *without* thought of material gain. The term open source doesn't just apply to linux anymore. Its a way of thinking, in much the way that we all think and do here. A good example is the dmoz.org project. They aggregate content for the good of others. Thats what the open source philosohpy embodies when you get down to it. > we're evolt.org, not a subset, nor a part, of a banner-toting "vortal". We have our banners on firmlist.com - whats the difference? We are also talking about having 'evolt-boxes' which would be content from other sites on the evolt site. Are we expecting to have other sites question us, like we are osdn, about whether or not they should have their conent on our site? > also, i'd rather increase membership (if that's what you're after) by increasing No. > awareness of evolt within web agencies worldwide, rather than aligning with an > open source network and a community, elements of which constantly torture > slashdot forums with bullshit and misinformation. I'm not saying this is a way to increase traffic. I've never advocated us whoring ourselves to get traffic to evolt.org. What would be the point after all? To turn non-existant banner ads? Rather, I'm just thinking of OSDN as another way to get evolt out to people that otherwise might not have had a chance to know what we're about - or, and most importantly - to learn and contribute with/back to the evolt community. > some members of evolt.org have griped about the lack of design-related threads. > they're right, and there are alot of backend threads which are too advanced for > many readers. talking to agencies and getting more designers and frontend people > on board in the process could do a good job of balancing thelist. True, true.(whazzzzzzzzup!! hehe) Talking to agencies is a *great* idea. I'm working with my local library here in Oshkosh to have beginners type web classes. Its not that I'm doing it *for* evolt, rather, as a member of evolt this is something I find brings my involvement in sharing and helping to another level. I would encourage anyone and everyone to do something similar. Don't do it for evolt though, do it because you want to help out. Thats all I'm really trying to get across here.. I think it would be good if we could help other web developers, that might not otherwise be intoduced to us, out in the world of web development. > let me know what you think, Naturally. :) Sorry for the long-winded reply, just want to clear some things up. And get a conversation going. <i>Zooooooooooooom!!</i> .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 23:54:10 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:54:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <39A1FEA5.74B81CFC@five2one.org> Isaac Forman wrote: > > > > Just wondered what people might think, or if you had opinions > > > or if that > > > would be a bad idea or what :) > > incidentally, this is not being discussed at all on the admin list (which is > currently preoccupied with discussion about weddings (3 or so admins are > planning weddings) and bitching about clients :p). Yes. Conrats go out to some founding evolt members. Javier and Walker are both getting hitched within the month. Cheers! > i think it is a very telling sign that dan is able to ask the community as a > whole for thoughts, rather than restrict all decisions to admin. and also get > quality responses, considering all aspects, in return. Thanks iSac :) I just really think that these big decisions aren't mine to make. Nor are they the admin groups. They should be the concencous(the spelling tyrade continues :) of the community at large. And I know a lot of 'community' sites say that, but they're all full of shit. Pardon my french(as Ferris Buehler would say) but they are for the most part. We're not :) > i think that evolt has become what we (founding members) had hoped it would > become, and i am proud (awwww...) everytime a non-admin submits a great article, > or a non-admin reminds people to trim their posts, not post attachments, change > subject lines, etc (all the picky things that help to keep evolt lean and > kickarse). +3.14^10 Now that we're finished getting all sentimental here ;) <tip type="SQL"> Might sound stupid, but index your tables. I just indexed some of thelist tables in the database and found a *HUGE* increase in speed at which CF could grad the info. What used to be a 1200ms query is now cut to 4ms after an index of the table. </tip> .djc. From djc at five2one.org Mon Aug 21 23:59:34 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Aug 21 23:59:34 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> <v0422080bb5c7969ac0a0@[216.176.7.248]> Message-ID: <39A1FFE8.16191288@five2one.org> Erika Meyer wrote: > I think that the idea of doing a locally-based word-of-mouth > evangelism job for evolt is fantastic. Just in the normal course of > networking, you know... an evolt article comes up, a thread, a > particularly helpful post... +1 Like i said in my reply to iSac, i think its a great idea, but one that *may* have to be done on one's own.. > BTW, any idea when we get to see that eagerly awaited redesign? Sure, join thesite at lists.evolt.org and you can get the inside track :) other than that we're keeping it oh-so-top-secret for the majority of people. http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite .djc. From peter at genps.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 00:49:20 2000 From: peter at genps.demon.co.uk (Peter Small) Date: Tue Aug 22 00:49:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion In-Reply-To: <0033000002971405000002L052*@MHS> Message-ID: <v04003a00b5c7bdea81b5@[158.152.26.28]> Can somebody please explain how this domain name system works. The more I learn about it, the more confused I get. The "official" cost of buying/renting seems to be 35 dollars per annum. But, if you pay a large sum of money to one of several organisations, you can register domain names at a fraction of this cost. There are other places where you can obtain domain names very cheaply. Some of them you can get domain name registration for free. Some of these cheap or free places to register a domain name charge a large fee for transference. Some don't. I hear that some places where you register a domain name you own it. At other places you are only renting it. Can somebody please help me understand all this so I don't get ripped off? I don't want free, but, I do want to have security that I won't lose the name at some future date. Also, if I have registered with one compant that is giving me a bad deal, how can I change to another registration company without losing the domain name I've registered? Is there any definitive article anywhere on the Web that explains all this? I'll be grateful for any guidance through this foggy mine field. peter http:www.avatarnets.com > Tell Webtrader to get registered with Core. If you switch the domain to >Internic, you loose ownership. In Internic's eyes, you are just renting the >name. In Joker's eyes, you own it. Plus, Internic has the right to take the >domain away from you if they don't like/agree with it. > >Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is right on the money. > >CDitty > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker >Author: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org at INTERNET >Date: 8/21/00 1:34 PM > > >Hi Gang, > > >I'm sure someone else has been through this ... so I'm asking for more >experienced help. > >I have a domain registered through Joker in Germany. > >I just signed up for hosting through Webtrader in Australia. > >I need to move the domain. (I have the new Primary and Secondary name >server and IP information.) > > >Here is the "tricky" part .... It looks to me like Webtrader is registered >through Internic .... But that Joker likes to use Core .... And (so it would >seem) .... Internic and Core don't like talking to each other. > > >.... And the solution is? > > >Ron > >(Confused in Texas) > > > > >--------------------------------------- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > >--------------------------------------- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From djc at five2one.org Tue Aug 22 01:25:50 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Aug 22 01:25:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion References: <v04003a00b5c7bdea81b5@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <39A21421.F3B44B0E@five2one.org> Hi Peter - Good question.. A brief history to help us understand.. Years ago, the US government gave the role of assigning top level domains (TLDs) to Network Solutions. It was getting to be more than the government wanted to handle, so they gave the contract to NetSol back then without knowing just how popular the internet, and domain names, would become. For many years, Network Solutions(Internic) was the only place you could register a .com, .net, .org, or .edu TLD on the Internet. People soon began to realize that registering those domain names was more than the government ever meant to give NetSol when it awarded them the contract to administer domain names. It was also becoming a muli-million dollar industry. About 2 years ago, enough people complained that the governemnt was forced to step in and stop NetSol's monopoly on registering domain names. They appointed an industry board known as ICANN to oversee the distribution of TLDs and to provide fair competetion in the registrar business that NetSol has monopolized for years. About a year - year and a half ago, ICANN appointed other 'registrars' to assign and administrate TLDs. Some of them are Joker.com, tucows.com, and register.com. They provide the same service as NetSol once had an iron fisted grip on, registering TLDs. This led the way to competition, which lead to increased service(which NetSol is notorious for having a lack of) and cheaper prices. Thats the real quick and dirty I've had a 6 pack of Bass version :) They 35 dollars per year fee is what NetSol(www.networksolutions.com) charges you to register a domain name. Now, NetSol has realized their loss with increased competition and have included shady(to say the leas) terms when you register a TLD with them. One of those is that you don't own the domain name, you're meerly renting it from them.. But the scope of NetSol's business practices is well beyond this email... You're correct in saying that there are other places you can get domain names(TLDs) for less money. The cheapest I know of is joker.com which is about 15 dollars a year(correct me if i'm wrong someone) Personally, I would *highly* recommend registering your domain name with someone other than network solutions. Again, without going in to it, they are just bad, bad, bad. If that answers you're question, coolio. If you want more info on exactly how the domain name system works, let me know and I'll provide more detailed information :) .djc. Peter Small wrote: > > Can somebody please explain how this domain name system works. The more I > learn about it, the more confused I get. > > The "official" cost of buying/renting seems to be 35 dollars per annum. > But, if you pay a large sum of money to one of several organisations, you > can register domain names at a fraction of this cost. There are other > places where you can obtain domain names very cheaply. Some of them you can > get domain name registration for free. > > Some of these cheap or free places to register a domain name charge a large > fee for transference. Some don't. I hear that some places where you > register a domain name you own it. At other places you are only renting it. > > Can somebody please help me understand all this so I don't get ripped off? > I don't want free, but, I do want to have security that I won't lose the > name at some future date. Also, if I have registered with one compant that > is giving me a bad deal, how can I change to another registration company > without losing the domain name I've registered? > > Is there any definitive article anywhere on the Web that explains all this? > > I'll be grateful for any guidance through this foggy mine field. From gsd at mac.com Tue Aug 22 01:26:47 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Tue Aug 22 01:26:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion In-Reply-To: <v04003a00b5c7bdea81b5@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <B5C84C7D.148EE%gsd@mac.com> http://www.domainnamebuyersguide.com/ has some useful info, tho it won't answer all of your questions. here is some info about CORE from their site http://corenic.org/about_core/fact.htm hth. I don't know much either! Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom. --Bertrand Russell > Can somebody please explain how this domain name system works. The more I > learn about it, the more confused I get. > > The "official" cost of buying/renting seems to be 35 dollars per annum. > But, if you pay a large sum of money to one of several organisations, you > can register domain names at a fraction of this cost. There are other > places where you can obtain domain names very cheaply. Some of them you can > get domain name registration for free. > > Some of these cheap or free places to register a domain name charge a large > fee for transference. Some don't. I hear that some places where you > register a domain name you own it. At other places you are only renting it. > > Can somebody please help me understand all this so I don't get ripped off? > I don't want free, but, I do want to have security that I won't lose the > name at some future date. Also, if I have registered with one compant that > is giving me a bad deal, how can I change to another registration company > without losing the domain name I've registered? > > Is there any definitive article anywhere on the Web that explains all this? > > I'll be grateful for any guidance through this foggy mine field. > > peter > http:www.avatarnets.com From gsd at mac.com Tue Aug 22 01:31:07 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Tue Aug 22 01:31:07 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion In-Reply-To: <39A21421.F3B44B0E@five2one.org> Message-ID: <B5C84D82.148EF%gsd@mac.com> http://www.gandi.net/ 12 euros/year or (currently) USD10.83 PLUS they explicitly state that the registrant is the owner! http://www.gandi.net/faq.html.en Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions. --Alfred Adler > The cheapest I know of is joker.com which is > about 15 dollars a year(correct me if i'm wrong someone) From Damonc at transputec.com Tue Aug 22 03:22:22 2000 From: Damonc at transputec.com (Damon Clark) Date: Tue Aug 22 03:22:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL Hosting Message-ID: <3AC40EBEC657D311BA8800A0C9E9338F53A6ED@bos-gw.bosuk.co.uk> Would anybody like to clear up a few questions about ADSL for a IT marketer with limited IT knowledge! Basically all I know is that it downloads quicker and it means that it limits the use of a server. Could anyone explain in Layman's terms the benefits and the future of ADSL. Apparently BT are worried about going live, they were going to test in certain regions, but have decided to go national, I have also heard they have tested resulting in phone lines being put out of action. Can any body fill me in? From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 05:02:05 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 05:02:05 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822115357.00d9c5c0@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 23:08 21/08/00 -0500, you wrote: >Don't think of open source as 'free shit'. The true open source >manifesto is *exactly* what we're about. Sharing, helping, and >advocating what we do *without* thought of material gain. > >The term open source doesn't just apply to linux anymore. Its a way of >thinking, in much the way that we all think and do here. A good example >is the dmoz.org project. They aggregate content for the good of others. >Thats what the open source philosohpy embodies when you get down to ok. methinks that we're (almost) all doing open source. How many scripts under GPL have you used ? How many of you [want to] release[d] some webapp crafted from your sweat and caffeine-ridden blood ? Aren't tips open-source knowledge repartition ? Aren't tutorials open-source lectures ? There are 3 major OS out there. We [ win people ] are already ( by the force of the events ) making [ ALMOST ] difference between mac people [ illustrator kiddies ] and normal people [ porn site surfers on IE6 ]. Now it's time to stop making noise [ noise Baaaaaaaad for medium ] and let info flow freely between scripters and sysadmins. You can't imagine how good it is to be near real Trollz, real Badstard Operators From Hell, lost in their no-man's-land where the only living people they see are webdeveloppers that come to them to cripple their cherished servers. It's important to understand [ and use ] Linux for php developpers [ for the others, it can't be bad ]. The power of command-lines, the power of filesystem commands, the power of libraries, we've got too much to understand to let it go unaware [ lib Image::Magick is coooool ]. I found that only knowing how linux works, its filesystem philosophy, the conf files, the compilation, is very interesting and changed my ways of thinking about computing and developpement. Of course, there are lots of boasting kiddies in the n*x world, but we got some in the past, they gone away by themselves, and we were alway polite and gentle[wo]men. I don't think one can deliberately spare himself from sysadministration, nor design, nor interaction sciences, nor backend, nor SQL, nor javascript, nor protocols. Every science we can get, we must get, as our work is awfully on a tight rope, undefined and changing each day. I want a vortal where i can be informed of the last release of a script i use, where i see which .deb are out, where i can read about the w3c, where i can get nerdy news. deboute benjamin From john at newmediawhore.com Tue Aug 22 05:21:13 2000 From: john at newmediawhore.com (John Handelaar) Date: Tue Aug 22 05:21:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] DSL Hosting In-Reply-To: <3AC40EBEC657D311BA8800A0C9E9338F53A6ED@bos-gw.bosuk.co.uk> Message-ID: <CAEOJCJALIILCCOOOELHIENCCBAA.john@newmediawhore.com> Visit... http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newbie.shtml ...and I'd recommend reading as much of this as possible before you ask again. Most of the people here aren't from the UK, and several have their own work to do! ;-) ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From john at newmediawhore.com Tue Aug 22 05:44:42 2000 From: john at newmediawhore.com (John Handelaar) Date: Tue Aug 22 05:44:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] URLOTD Message-ID: <CAEOJCJALIILCCOOOELHIENDCBAA.john@newmediawhore.com> http://www.dejavu.org ...a bit buggy but quite interesting anyway. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From arthur at arthurnoel.com Tue Aug 22 05:48:46 2000 From: arthur at arthurnoel.com (Arthur Noel) Date: Tue Aug 22 05:48:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] tuesday freebie Message-ID: <01c401c00c26$a07e0d80$0701a8c0@wsarthur> Fiddling with this today and thought I'd share. Its a bookmarklet that toggles all the table borders on a page so's you can see how its been laid out. IE only and kinda stupid: javascript:for(i=0;i<document.all.length;i++)if(document.all[i].tagName=='TA BLE')void(document.all[i].border=(document.all[i].border=='0')?'1':'0'); Just make a link use the above and you're set. A From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 06:34:00 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 06:34:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] Site ridicule In-Reply-To: <20000821211152.22143.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822123142.00b8d460@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 22:11 21/08/00, peg at anxietygirl.com wrote: ><snip> I realise it is traditional for visited links to show up as a >different colour but on a site like this, is it really necessary? ... see >if anyone else agrees with my logic </snip> > >FWIW, I have on occasion used the same color for links of all >states. However, most of the time I do think it's helpful for visitors to >have the visual cue of a different color for visited links. I think this >is another of those things that falls into the "knowing your purpose and >your audience" category. That, and, making an educated decision about >what you are doing, and why. IMHO it is ok to deviate from the generally >accepted norm *if* you fully understand the norm and your reasons for >deviating from it, and whether or not your audience will get it. In other words, the default is that you have different colours for each state, and it is necessary to justify changing that (rather than the other way round). Same goes for any usability heuristic, btw. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJk33HoHnCoNczLEQIKzACgny2o5JmbzfXt2c5/S9S+RM0W99AAoP95 cWzF+QGp63Yyz6YuQc/fQY/w =jCd+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 06:38:13 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 06:38:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] Power Point To Video (OT) In-Reply-To: <p04310100b5c763912a6f@[208.244.56.253]> References: <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0467@SERVER04> <p04310105b5c75621c01d@[64.229.76.214]> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822123312.00b8b470@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 23:56 21/08/00, J. Ross Dishner wrote: >Anybody ever put a Power Point slide show on video tape with a Mac. I've >got video out ports but don't know how to get it to recognize the slide >show to record... The video out port will display whatever's onscreen (I did showings of the StarWars trailer last year as part of a 'watch the 1st trilogy' party with a video projector hooked up to the VCR and my Mac). So all you need is a copy of PowerPoint for your Mac. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJlRnHoHnCoNczLEQIJjgCg267fJlCdechFCMMpLuCOUMCvi2sAnjT3 wtJfR5CXjoaI+09n5OovtlKu =C1xO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 06:43:13 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 06:43:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA6B@SBS> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822123628.00ba92e0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 03:24 22/08/00, Isaac Forman wrote: >we're kinda like a startup that did things correctly. we didn't rush. we >didn't >blow insane amounts of money. we didn't waste time going public. yet, >we're more >profitable than we could've imagined, and there's almost no money involved... Although we *do* get commercial approaches from time to time offering us money. We're holding out for 10 million in cash ;-) Seriously though, we turn them down with great glee. If we *were* commercial, we could make a ton of cash out of this, but it would spoil the very essence of what we're doing. We would *hate* to go all WebMonkey... The X-header in this email *is* a joke... Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJm3nHoHnCoNczLEQJRWgCfZsl7fztGWQ/SO2N0L73NtZK7jFcAn0Se thI6rHW/k9ArjAJEFhokw20F =aU1p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 06:48:13 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 06:48:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: Razorfish retaliates - there's a reason for the cost In-Reply-To: <200008220400.VAA22635@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822124248.00bb79b0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:05 22/08/00, aardvark wrote: >but i still stand by the idea that rolling out a content-tool isn't worth >10mil... and i am aware of all >the add-on expenses and the like... 10mil *is* pushing it a bit, but for a given site, which can only work with a sensible content tool, it may be good value. In eBusinessland, if you're not flexible, you're dead. If your 50mil venture is getting killed by market conditions changing rapidly and unpredictably (the *only* way this environment works btw), then 10mil is cheap. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJnlXHoHnCoNczLEQL9jwCgwqG7kCSgqBDuQz38UdCGC2w3/f8An01R gAzXxrQ3FAFKfO6jnK6JmAjn =ncvw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 06:48:18 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 06:48:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822124551.00bbb5a0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 05:08 22/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >Don't think of open source as 'free shit'. The true open source >manifesto is *exactly* what we're about. Sharing, helping, and >advocating what we do *without* thought of material gain. > >The term open source doesn't just apply to linux anymore. Its a way of >thinking, in much the way that we all think and do here. A good example >is the dmoz.org project. They aggregate content for the good of others. >Thats what the open source philosohpy embodies when you get down to it. +1 It's about "Everyone's welcome to do as much as they feel able and willing to do" - open source is really about organisations, more than code. In company terms, it's somewhere between http://www.cluetrain.com/ and http://www.funkybusiness.com/ Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJoZHHoHnCoNczLEQKfsQCg2smI6507MbEAiG49DMy87TNv6t8AoMIp 2YNdd1OlSCiWJo/CpwQ6EMW1 =OHmj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From RLuth at telxon.com Tue Aug 22 07:09:19 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:09:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D711@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi George, Actually, I'm not changing registrars .... I'm having the site hosted. Last April, I "got the bug" and bought a couple domain names. I bought them through Joker since everyone here and at WebMonkey and at WDVL seemed to think that they had one of the best deals around. In May I bought a new home machine so that I could 'Monkey around' with web development, decide what I wanted to do with the domains and look for a host. [That machine has been the "PC from Hell" and still isn't set up the way I want it - dual boot Win98 and Mandrake 7.1 - with problems on BOTH sides! - but that's another story!] I'm also in the middle of looking for a new job - (Like I don't have enough stress in my life!) .... And a week ago I got a call back from a recruiter saying they couldn't access the examples of my web work that I put up in "free space". Well ..... Naturally .... I got p***ed off ..... then I decided to pay for hosting - that way at least I have someone to shout at if the site is down! (There are no guarantees in Free Space!) Once again - you folks came through - and it looks like webtrader.net.au has an outstanding deal...... ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, Perl and CGI ... all available at an affordable price! So now I'm trying to "move" the domain out of the parking lot, (re-delegate the primary and secondary name servers), from Germany to Australia..... and put up some content. Maybe I panicked and called for help too early --- but I did not find the re-delegation process at Joker to be very "intuitive" at all ... My personal view is that they need some "accessibility" redesign to make (what I would guess to be) frequently used functions ... easy and simple to operate. I'm pretty sure it's just my unfamiliarity with the process ... and not any kind of shortcoming with the folks at Joker ... I just figured that with so many people (who know what they are doing) on this list ... someone here would have been through this before and might have a yellow stickie next to their monitor they could read off to guide me through the process. I think I managed to stumble through the re-delegation yesterday ... I don't see access to the domain today ... but I'm not worried ... yet .... It takes what? ..... 2 or 3 days for a change like this to propagate? ... right? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: George Donnelly [mailto:gsd at mac.com] Subject: Re: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker I'm curious as to why you are changing registrars? with joker (also gandi) you are the acknowledged owner but with interbic registrars (like NSI) you have fewer rights. From ppk at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 22 07:35:50 2000 From: ppk at xs4all.nl (ppk) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:35:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] Writing text into layers Message-ID: <200008221235.OAA29634@webmail1.xs4all.nl> Someone asked for a script that will write text into an HTML element (like a header or a paragraph). I was intrigued by the request and did some research which showed that (surprise!) Netscape 4 is extremely buggy when it comes to this, though the other browsers can handle it. For the script, see http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/ under DHTML => Writing into layers ppk From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 07:37:18 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:37:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <01c401c00c26$a07e0d80$0701a8c0@wsarthur> Message-ID: <200008221236.FAA18403@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Arthur Noel > > Fiddling with this today and thought I'd share. > Its a bookmarklet that > toggles all the table borders on a page so's you > can see how its been laid > out. > > IE only and kinda stupid: not stupid at all... one of the first things i do when i start to analyze a site is turn on all the table borders... this is very cool since it saves a heckuva lotta time... thanks From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 07:37:24 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:37:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: Razorfish retaliates - there's a reason for the cost In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822124248.00bb79b0@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <200008221237.FAA19637@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: martin burns > > 10mil *is* pushing it a bit, but for a given > site, which can only work with > a sensible > content tool, it may be good value. that post was sitting in my outbox for some reason instead of being sent (last month?)... but i still say that's a lot to implement a CMS... > In eBusinessland, if you're not flexible, you're > dead. If your 50mil > venture is getting killed > by market conditions changing rapidly and > unpredictably (the *only* way > this environment > works btw), then 10mil is cheap. yeah, but i'm making the assumption that all dot-coms are over-valued and lack a business plan that makes sense... fuckedcompany.com demonstrates that it's the case more often than not... From gsd at mac.com Tue Aug 22 07:47:35 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:47:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Domain Delegation from Joker In-Reply-To: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D711@ushoex1.telxon.com> Message-ID: <B5C8A5BD.14915%gsd@mac.com> ah I see. I thought you said something before about changing registrars... At gandi.net the process is also not so user-friendly but the price and terms rock! My impression of joker is that its basically the same deal. With NSI and Enom, changes were finalized within 24-36 hours. But with Gandi it has taken up to 5 days... Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ All the evils, abuses, and iniquities, popularly ascribed to businessmen and to capitalism, were not caused by an unregulated economy or by a free market, but by government intervention into the economy. --Ayn Rand > Actually, I'm not changing registrars .... I'm having the site hosted. > > Last April, I "got the bug" and bought a couple domain names. I bought them > through Joker since everyone here and at WebMonkey and at WDVL seemed to > think that they had one of the best deals around. > > In May I bought a new home machine so that I could 'Monkey around' with web > development, decide what I wanted to do with the domains and look for a > host. [That machine has been the "PC from Hell" and still isn't set up the > way I want it - dual boot Win98 and Mandrake 7.1 - with problems on BOTH > sides! - but that's another story!] > > I'm also in the middle of looking for a new job - (Like I don't have enough > stress in my life!) .... And a week ago I got a call back from a recruiter > saying they couldn't access the examples of my web work that I put up in > "free space". > > Well ..... Naturally .... I got p***ed off ..... then I decided to pay for > hosting - that way at least I have someone to shout at if the site is down! > (There are no guarantees in Free Space!) > > Once again - you folks came through - and it looks like webtrader.net.au has > an outstanding deal...... ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, Perl and CGI ... all > available at an affordable price! > > So now I'm trying to "move" the domain out of the parking lot, (re-delegate > the primary and secondary name servers), from Germany to Australia..... and > put up some content. > > Maybe I panicked and called for help too early --- but I did not find the > re-delegation process at Joker to be very "intuitive" at all ... My personal > view is that they need some "accessibility" redesign to make (what I would > guess to be) frequently used functions ... easy and simple to operate. > > > I'm pretty sure it's just my unfamiliarity with the process ... and not any > kind of shortcoming with the folks at Joker ... I just figured that with so > many people (who know what they are doing) on this list ... someone here > would have been through this before and might have a yellow stickie next to > their monitor they could read off to guide me through the process. > > > I think I managed to stumble through the re-delegation yesterday ... I don't > see access to the domain today ... but I'm not worried ... yet .... It takes > what? ..... 2 or 3 days for a change like this to propagate? ... right? From Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov Tue Aug 22 07:50:33 2000 From: Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov (Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:50:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] Column Width Not Working in Netscape Communicator 4.7 Message-ID: <85256943.004620E6.00@it008nthqln.tco.census.gov> Thanks to Rudy. It worked using the NOWRAP attribute. I noticed at http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/nowrap.asp this attribute has been deprecated. Should I be wary of using this long term? Greg hi greg gee i hope you don't get a slew of identical answers to your question ;o) (dan, f.y.i. maybe it's my mail system but i'm not seeing the posts until approx 30 minutes after they're posted and i can't tell if they've been answered yet within that time span...) here's what you have, greg: <td width="200px" class="EvalCheckListBody"> <input class="EvalCheckList" id="intMonth" maxlength="2" name="intMonth" size="2" tabindex="1" [snip] (nice code, by the way -- comprehensive and easy to read) specify your cell widths without the px, i.e. width="200" if that doesn't work, try using "nowrap" (sorry, can't remember if this is html strict or not, i'm pretty sure it's html transitional) <td nowrap width="200" [snip] rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 08:13:57 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 08:13:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] Column Width Not Working in Netscape Communicator 4.7 In-Reply-To: <85256943.004620E6.00@it008nthqln.tco.census.gov> Message-ID: <200008221314.GAA17135@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Gregory.John.Toland at census.gov > > Thanks to Rudy. It worked using the NOWRAP > attribute. I noticed at > http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/re > ference/properties/nowrap.asp > this attribute has been deprecated. Should I be > wary of using this long term? MS is linking to the 3.2 spec... but it is deprecated in the 4.01 spec, meaning you shouldn't use it, but you'll still validate to the loose DTD if you do... list of attributes: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html according to the spec, it can be used with TD and TH, not the ones (body, DD, DIV, DT, TD, TH) MS suggests... but they are also using the 3.2 spec... more info about nowrap: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#adef-nowrap too bad <nobr> doesn't exist in 4.01... From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 08:25:59 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 08:25:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFCEECDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> +1 on what Isaac says... I tell any folks I come across who do WebDev about evolt. Whether they join or not is up to them... Ron From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 08:29:06 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 08:29:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <200008221236.FAA18403@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> References: <01c401c00c26$a07e0d80$0701a8c0@wsarthur> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822142732.00ba1a40@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 09:41 22/08/00, aardvark wrote: >not stupid at all... one of the first things i do when i start to analyze >a site is turn on all the table >borders... this is very cool since it saves a heckuva lotta time... +1 - same when I'm building a site with anything beyond the most basic tables. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaJ/53HoHnCoNczLEQJ2QgCeOnINr8vhQqFrnvFUTLkpJI1wJAsAoKm1 oC4F67zGCBSIF15hGF4HgEL1 =REN5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 08:34:02 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 08:34:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: Razorfish retaliates - there's a reason for the cost In-Reply-To: <200008221237.FAA19637@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822124248.00bb79b0@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822142835.00ba23f0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 09:42 22/08/00, aardvark wrote: > > In eBusinessland, if you're not flexible, you're > > dead. If your 50mil > > venture is getting killed > > by market conditions changing rapidly and > > unpredictably (the *only* way > > this environment > > works btw), then 10mil is cheap. > >yeah, but i'm making the assumption that all dot-coms are over-valued and >lack a business plan >that makes sense... fuckedcompany.com demonstrates that it's the case more >often than not... It's been argued that *having* a business plan causes ebiz to fail. It's great for getting VCs to sign the cheques, but what happens when all your assumptions are no longer true the following day? Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaKATnHoHnCoNczLEQLSvQCg2R9EN3zzHwi31m20VFuYtXkdIEsAn1BX roS/E+gryZO1LZqhKGL7EVV5 =Ru3Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Jagjeet.Hayer at softwareag.co.uk Tue Aug 22 08:44:13 2000 From: Jagjeet.Hayer at softwareag.co.uk (Jagjeet Hayer) Date: Tue Aug 22 08:44:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] Another Netscape problem In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFCEECDFAA.rwhite@softwareag.com> Message-ID: <000f01c00c3f$260775f0$6ae6bd9d@softwareag.co.uk> Hi all, Can anyone tell me how to access a select box in Netscape? The complication too this is that the select must be hidden. So the code after some fiddling looks something like this: <html> <body> <ilayer id=ilayer1> <layer id=layer1 visibility=hide position=absolute> <nolayer> <div id=div1 style='visibility:hidden'> </nolayer> <form name=layerform> <SELECT id=list name=list style='visibility:hidden'></SELECT> </form> <nolayer> </div> </nolayer> </layer> </ilayer> </body> In the JavaScript I am trying to access using the following: document.ilayer1.document.layer1.document.layerform.list.options[0].value; But this doesn't work. Can anyone tell me where I am going wrong? Or indeed if there is a much better way of achieving this? TIA, Jag. From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 09:07:40 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 09:07:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <01c401c00c26$a07e0d80$0701a8c0@wsarthur> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEEDDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> +1 on Kewlness (and major negs on stupid) with this, saves going back into the code and changing the attrib. Ron IE only and kinda NOT stupid: javascript:for(i=0;i<document.all.length;i++)if(document.all[i].tagName=='TA BLE')void(document.all[i].border=(document.all[i].border=='0')?'1':'0'); From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 09:28:50 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 09:28:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: Razorfish retaliates - there's a reason for the cost In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822142835.00ba23f0@members.evolt.org> References: <200008221237.FAA19637@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200008221429.HAA17032@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: martin burns <martin at members.evolt.org> > > It's been argued that *having* a business plan causes ebiz to fail. > It's great for getting VCs to sign the cheques, but what happens when > all your assumptions are no longer true the following day? a business plan isn't based on assumptions... yes, they are in there in the form of research, but for the most part, a business plan has some hard goals, criteria, etc... if the entire market changes, then you change with it... that's why some companies re-write their business plans... the internet and ebusiness (at least IMO) is not a brand new business model... you still have to follow the same rules, they just look different, or may be accelerated... and at some point you have to make money... and VCs (at least IME) want to see a laser-focus on something, and if shit changes, they want you to re-focus... From jspencer at sunflower.com Tue Aug 22 09:43:21 2000 From: jspencer at sunflower.com (John Spencer) Date: Tue Aug 22 09:43:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] Tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEEDDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <AKEKIEDFCPDLPKAGJICACEGOCCAA.jspencer@sunflower.com> I am feeling a little dumb this morning, as I do not understand how to use this. I put it in a web page and nothing, added </script> <script language="JavaScript"> and I am just getting syntax errors, could someone elaborate for me please. thankyou in advance. Also Thanks to Aardvark for the links to some rather good looking pages. Cheers John >javascript:for(i=0;i<document.all.length;i++)if(document.all[i].tagName=='T A >BLE')void(document.all[i].border=(document.all[i].border=='0')?'1':'0'); --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From dascott at wam.umd.edu Tue Aug 22 09:47:43 2000 From: dascott at wam.umd.edu (dave gray) Date: Tue Aug 22 09:47:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT advertising impotence rant (was: open source development network) In-Reply-To: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008220907200.23500-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> > us whoring ourselves to get traffic to evolt.org. What would be the > point after all? To turn non-existant banner ads? the company I work for recently started testing a banner ad rotator on one of the sites we have up, and I didn't realize quite how absurd it was to have banner ads on a site if you have any kind of business plan at all until just now. at the very most, banner ad impressions bring in a couple thousand dollars a month. if you get a lot of hits. that's not really significant all if you take into account what banner ads do - annoy users, making them automatically ignore certain sections of your page. i don't like being advertised at. i won't buy something because i saw it on tv or because i saw it on a banner ad. like tv advertisements that actually contain some value to me besides lifeless promotion, however, i will watch a banner ad if it entertains me or is skillfully done. like that sun breakout applet :) which brings me to deception in advertising. you know what i'm talking about. banner ads that look like dialog boxes. they are aimed at a specific target audience: people who don't know all that much about computers, people who don't understand what a banner ad is and what it does. these deceptive banner ads take advantage of people's ignorance because clicks mean money to online advertisers. not only do they take advantage of the user, they piss off the uninformed user who didn't know they were being advertised at. i put companies who use those sort of banner ads on the same level of hell as spammers. it's not clever, it's not cute, it's deceptive and it needs to stop. going back and reading this rant over, i'm not quite sure what the point of it was, but i feel better now. i guess what i'm trying to say is that pure advertising is annoying, but skillfully done advertising is tolerable. my name is dave, and i'm a web developer... -dave <tip type="site maps" author="dave"> having trouble fitting your entire site on a piece of paper? do it digital: draw it out in flash or photoshop so you can mess with it more easily. </tip> From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 09:49:31 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 09:49:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] Tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <AKEKIEDFCPDLPKAGJICACEGOCCAA.jspencer@sunflower.com> References: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEEDDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <200008221449.HAA07046@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "John Spencer" <jspencer at sunflower.com> > > I am feeling a little dumb this morning, as I do not understand how to > use this. I put it in a web page and nothing, added </script> <script > language="JavaScript"> and I am just getting syntax errors, could well, lemme tell you how i do it... first off, you want to make it a *favorite* in IE, it's not script you put in your page... so, i cheated... i dragged the little icon of the current page to my desktop, pulled up the properties and changed the URL to the script, changed the name of the 'file' on my desktop, and then dragged it to my Favorites menu... but i don't use IE favorites ever (i use NN to handle bookmarks -- one file, no cluster-sapping shortcuts everywhere), so you're on your own if you need more... > someone elaborate for me please. thankyou in advance. Also Thanks to > Aardvark for the links to some rather good looking pages. huh? sure, when did i do that? From Kingorbitao at aol.com Tue Aug 22 10:02:24 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:02:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <a8.99bca94.26d3f007@aol.com> In a message dated 8/21/00 11:48:08 PM Central Daylight Time, djc at five2one.org writes: << Its not that I'm doing it *for* evolt, rather, as a member of evolt this is something I find brings my involvement in sharing and helping to another level. I would encourage anyone and everyone to do something similar. Don't do it for evolt though, do it because you want to help out. >> "I'm not doing it for the Communist Party, rather as a member of The Party..." From dascott at wam.umd.edu Tue Aug 22 10:08:01 2000 From: dascott at wam.umd.edu (dave gray) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:08:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] Another Netscape problem In-Reply-To: <000f01c00c3f$260775f0$6ae6bd9d@softwareag.co.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008221006510.5504-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> not sure what specifically you're trying to do, but could you have a javascript array of values and then have your script put the correct value into a hidden field when whatever happens? more info about the problem you're trying to solve would definately help us help you. HTH a bit, -dave On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Jagjeet Hayer wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to access a select box in Netscape? The complication > too this is that the select must be hidden. From jaylard at equilon.com Tue Aug 22 10:10:53 2000 From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James)) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:10:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] nowrap (was Column Width Not Working in Netscape Co mmunicator 4.7) Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB0F@mzrmsx02.newcos.com> aardvark wrote: > too bad <nobr> doesn't exist in 4.01... +1. This has been a pet-peeve of mine ever since I discovered (long ago now) that it was not a valid html element (even though both IE and Netscape support it). The CSS 1 style sheet property "white-space" with a value of "nowrap" will provide the same functionality, and is standards-compliant, of course. However, only IE 5.5 currently renders the "nowrap" value properly -- Mozilla should, but M17 doesn't. James Aylard jaylard at equilon.com From peg at anxietygirl.com Tue Aug 22 10:14:12 2000 From: peg at anxietygirl.com (Peggy Daniels) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:14:12 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <20000822151427.7797.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://lists.evolt.org/pipermail/thelist/attachments/20000822/e9a827e3/attachment.txt> From isaac at triplezero.com.au Tue Aug 22 10:20:30 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:20:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT advertising impotence rant (was: open source developmentnetwork) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008220907200.23500-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBIENCDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > you take into account what banner ads do - annoy users, making them > automatically ignore certain sections of your page. i find that this damages the internet more than any advertiser would have ever expected. and i can't imagine any of them caring... i know that with my avoidance of the header areas of most sites (instinctively ignoring banner ads), i don't think to use header navigation until i've scoured every other part of a page. i can see it becoming a growing trend to use very distinct header navigation (ie, on a dark bar of colour for example), or use a sidebar exclusively. as 640x480 dies off (especially in the minds of those building the major web sites), you'll struggle to find the real content in the first couple hundred pixels. this means that anyone browsing these sites in 640x480, instantly has to pagedown or scroll to read anything more than a headline. bitch, eh? isaac From Jagjeet.Hayer at softwareag.co.uk Tue Aug 22 10:26:20 2000 From: Jagjeet.Hayer at softwareag.co.uk (Jagjeet Hayer) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:26:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] Another Netscape problem In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008221006510.5504-100000@softwareag.com> Message-ID: <002101c00c4d$6d0d09c0$6ae6bd9d@softwareag.co.uk> Ok, here goes. The select box is dynamically populated from a servlet. I then need to retrieve one of these values depending on what the user selects from another select box which is displayed on the screen. So I want the first select box to be hidden because it is there purely as a data element. So my problems have been that IE and Netscape use different ways of hiding fields, and that IE and Netscape use different DOM paths to retrieve the information because I thought of using layers as a way to solve the issue with Netscape. So I am using code like: if (vertype()=="ie") { fieldvalue = document.form1.select1.options[document.form1.select2.selectedIndex].value; } if (vertype()=="nav") { fieldvalue = document.ilayer1.document.layer1.document.form1.select1.options[document.for m1.select2.selectedIndex].value; } But this doesn't work. So its all a bit of a mess at the moment. Don't know if this helps or has just confused even more. > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of dave gray > Sent: 22 August 2000 16:08 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Another Netscape problem > > > not sure what specifically you're trying to do, but could you have a > javascript array of values and then have your script put the correct value > into a hidden field when whatever happens? more info about the problem > you're trying to solve would definately help us help you. > > HTH a bit, > > -dave > > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Jagjeet Hayer wrote: > > Can anyone tell me how to access a select box in Netscape? The > complication > > too this is that the select must be hidden. > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 10:47:17 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:47:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT advertising impotence rant (was: open source development network) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008220907200.23500-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> References: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Message-ID: <200008221547.IAA12918@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: dave gray <dascott at wam.umd.edu> > > the company I work for recently started testing a banner ad rotator on > one of the sites we have up, and I didn't realize quite how absurd it > was to have banner ads on a site if you have any kind of business plan > at all until just now. i sometimes refer people to http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9709a.html, where Jakob talks about the dropping click-through rates in addendums... i saw another study somewhere (can't find it now, anyone know it?) that talks about how people are starting to tune out animated rectangles in prominent locations on sites... which is impacting sites that use animation for the *site*, not as an ad... [snip] > which brings me to deception in advertising. you know what i'm talking > about. banner ads that look like dialog boxes. they are aimed at a > specific target audience: people who don't know all that much about [snip] this keeps catching my dad... he clicks the little win95-looking 'close' buttons on banner ads thinking that will make them go away... not only does it piss me off for the advertising snakiness (are trick click-throughs good click-throughs? should their clients ask them that?), but my UI side gets *really* pissed off as they usurp the few UI standards we have left in order to trick users... > my name is dave, and i'm a web developer... my name is aardvark, and i'm hankering for a horde of ants... From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 10:52:18 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:52:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <20000822151427.7797.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <200008221551.IAA31750@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Peggy Daniels <peg at anxietygirl.com> > > Speaking as a sometime lurker, relative newbie, and > nontechnical-design-type, I have to say this: If people want more > design-related threads, those people might consider posting more > design-related stuff. Of course that's an oversimplification. But, i'm glad to hear this... this is how i feel... if a reader thinks we're missing something, just ask... i had no idea we had people here with good video skills (i thought i was the DV freak), photographers, networking nuts, etc... not all web-specific, but certainly they can come up in web issues in the day-to-day... people ask weird things, and answers appear... but i haven't heard anyone complain about that in a while, which leads me to believe we're going ok... > post, those that I do read create just a little bit more velcro in my > brain, giving future technical information a place to stick instead of > just floating in one ear and out the other. that's gott hurt... [snip] > make it. It's like a coctail party. Sitting alone in a corner, [snip] > my two cents plus wildly mixed metaphors. the mixed *drink* theme prevails... From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu Tue Aug 22 11:06:45 2000 From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:06:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] opening sized window from jump menu In-Reply-To: <OFC6D27967.96B092DD-ON85256942.005F2501@1.10.196> Message-ID: <39A25E9C.30577.925893@localhost> Thanks to all who responded. I used a little bit from every one and what I didn't use I put away for future reference. My blood pressure is descending and the sky is looking bluer again. Here's another problem though. In IE5 some of the rollover images don't always load when the page comes up. The image returns when you refresh I believe I read something about this on this list once but can't find it anywhere. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Thanks in advance.... ---Suellen > I have a jump menu from which I'd like each menu item > to open a new window that I can size. I have figured > out the javascript to open a new window but have tried > every way I can think of to size it to no effect. > Do any of you know how to do this? Suellen Stringer-Hye Jean and Alexander Heard Library Vanderbilt University stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu From james at designframe.com Tue Aug 22 11:13:50 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:13:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping Message-ID: <B5C81ED9.160F9%james@designframe.com> I'm getting beat up and bruised today by PHP. Mainly due to variable scoping. Can some one point me towards some nice (short) docs on the subject - or rattle off the 5 golden rules, or something ... help? James. From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 11:20:42 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:20:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT advertising impotence rant (was: open source development network) In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008220907200.23500-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> References: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822171734.00ba5bd0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 15:47 22/08/00, dave gray wrote: >i don't like being advertised at. i won't buy something because i saw it >on tv or because i saw it on a banner ad. like tv advertisements that >actually contain some value to me besides lifeless promotion, however, i >will watch a banner ad if it entertains me or is skillfully done. like >that sun breakout applet :) Yup - interruption marketing, one [small] step above spam. Have a look at Seth Godin's "Permission Marketing" for a better, relationship- based approach. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaKnyXHoHnCoNczLEQJlnACfd2fLgSyOx/ngT97XgKeIdn1HsZAAn2JT GNAZIZfCDdmux0V63J0T8uFA =78eP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 11:20:51 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:20:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] nowrap (was Column Width Not Working in Netscape Co mmunicator 4.7) In-Reply-To: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB0F@mzrmsx02.newcos.c om> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822171855.00ba9d40@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:09 22/08/00, Aylard JA (James) wrote: >However, only IE 5.5 currently renders the >"nowrap" value properly -- Mozilla should, but M17 doesn't ie5/mac - full CSS-1 standards compliance (except some of the sillier optional attributes like 'blink'). Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaKoG3HoHnCoNczLEQIvDQCfcIRM7qKu8ObzFse8myGVCe/d+58AmwdD HAKb2pl4T14Lt4H8NtEhtI/P =kKjH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 11:20:54 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:20:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT advertising impotence rant (was: open source development network) In-Reply-To: <200008221547.IAA12918@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008220907200.23500-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822172034.00b9d2f0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:43 22/08/00, aardvark wrote: >i saw another study somewhere (can't find it now, anyone know it?) >that talks about how people are starting to tune out animated >rectangles in prominent locations on sites... which is impacting >sites that use animation for the *site*, not as an ad... Jakob again - it's certainly in the book. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaKoZXHoHnCoNczLEQLfYgCgiVNxHtxW8rrn0jLeUtB1vRK/zNEAn2DA 22rBz1sCUUvXZYxFZSwppVSr =L4dI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 11:22:29 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:22:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <200008221551.IAA31750@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <20000822151427.7797.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822182001.00a665d0@POP3.club-internet.fr> > > post, those that I do read create just a little bit more velcro in my > > brain, giving future technical information a place to stick instead of > > just floating in one ear and out the other. about a year ago, back to those times when i haven fallen into the social decrepitude of the lonely webdev running amok against code on the dim-lighted monitor screen, i subscribed to Evolt. it was when i was starting to understand a little Javascript [ DUM-DUM DOM ], i had just 'set up a linux server' [ running a auto-install of the mandrake and read man pages ], configured some perl and php scripts packages, started a hack crusade against browsers to tweak it my way under them. I first understood nothing. not a single word. But i kept reading. The semantics of the different languages, of sys administration, are quite all the same. Once you know a language, you almost only need to learn its particuliar syntax to make your way through a script. So, after a moment of lurkin', after reading tutorials on some of sites, the magic of Evolt shall down to ye lonely webdev. The best point is that we're all good-karma, ethical, medium-perplex, polyvalent coders. I better listen to djc or jeff [ .................................... ] than to (? oh my god i don't know any shitty tutorial maker... ) some "*'guru'*" from internet.com. I regulary tell people how good thelist is, how good everyone's karma is, i enjoy some OT or IT threads... i heart Evolt. deboute benjamin From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 11:48:29 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:48:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFMEEIDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> <tip Type=privacy, sorta :-) type1=Public Service Announcement> These are the most prevalent and irritating ad sites I've come across. They are all in my restricted sites list. admaximise.com admonitor.com bfast.com cimedia.com commission-junction.com doubleclick.net - Duh focalink.com hitbox.com imgis.com innovyx.com link4ads.com linkexchange.com livestat.com looksmart.com mediaplex.com smartage.com warehouse.com webconnect.net </tip> Thanks, Ron White rwhite at edverify.com Director of Technology EdVerifY, Inc. P - 561-748-1999 ext 601 F - 561-746-9023 From edmz at emonterrey.com Tue Aug 22 12:01:06 2000 From: edmz at emonterrey.com (Eduardo Dominguez) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:01:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFMEEIDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <00b401c00c59$cc376920$3e01a8c0@em12> can anyone refresh my memory on how to block this sites on my pc? it was some file modifying, but dont quite remember how.... thanks in advance.... -----Mensaje original----- De: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]En nombre de Ron White Enviado el: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 11:49 AM Para: Evolt Asunto: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking <tip Type=privacy, sorta :-) type1=Public Service Announcement> These are the most prevalent and irritating ad sites I've come across. They are all in my restricted sites list. admaximise.com admonitor.com bfast.com cimedia.com commission-junction.com doubleclick.net - Duh focalink.com hitbox.com imgis.com innovyx.com link4ads.com linkexchange.com livestat.com looksmart.com mediaplex.com smartage.com warehouse.com webconnect.net </tip> Thanks, Ron White rwhite at edverify.com Director of Technology EdVerifY, Inc. P - 561-748-1999 ext 601 F - 561-746-9023 --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 12:02:21 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:02:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping In-Reply-To: <B5C81ED9.160F9%james@designframe.com> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822190954.00d8ad70@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 12:13 22/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >I'm getting beat up and bruised today by PHP. Mainly due to variable >scoping. Can some one point me towards some nice (short) docs on the subject >- or rattle off the 5 golden rules, or something ... > >help? humpf... php4 seems rather on variable scoping, especially it does some quirks when you include a lot of files that include a lot of files............adlib. however :: outside a function a variable is global. inside a function a variable is local. you can call/set a global variable in a function by using GLOBAL $variable help resolved ? From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 12:17:36 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:17:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <00b401c00c59$cc376920$3e01a8c0@em12> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFOEEJDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Well I reckon that would've been good to include in my post :-) So, here's what ya do in IE4/5 Tools > Internet Options > Security > Restricted Sites > Sites... Then add site as annoyingsite.com it will automatically save as *.annoyingsite.com If yer usin' NutScrape yer on yer own... :-) Ron PS Trim your posts back to the list please and you may join my new organization: Save the Bandwidth!! Donations may be sent to savethebandwidth.org :-) From james at designframe.com Tue Aug 22 12:20:50 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:20:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20000822190954.00d8ad70@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <B5C82EBD.16124%james@designframe.com> on 8/22/00 1:12 PM, deboute benjamin at deboute at nerdsoul.com wrote: > humpf... > > php4 seems rather on variable scoping, especially it does some quirks when you > include a lot of files that include a lot of files............adlib. > > however :: > outside a function a variable is global. > > inside a function a variable is local. > > you can call/set a global variable in a function by using GLOBAL $variable > > help resolved ? Yes. I'm stumbling through this. (4 weeks into learning PHP). I've never had scoping problems like this in the other languages I've used. Eventually I'll get the hang of it. This is what I don't understand. This is the first line in my file <?php df_vars[]=""; ?> I thought that - a. variables defined outside a function on the primary page (not an include) are global, everywhere. b. and I could define an array and stick values into it and keep 'em all global no matter where I set them. turns out why assumptions are wrong... (grumble, grumble, grumble) James http://spahr.org/ From info at nouveauxvisages.com Tue Aug 22 12:42:16 2000 From: info at nouveauxvisages.com (Colleen McGunnigle) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:42:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows References: <20000821140904.DEE81A902F@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <39A2BB6A.E2E39E74@nouveauxvisages.com> Is there a way to set a pop-up window to be a specific width horizontally but take up the entire available screen area vertically? (Like the concept of setting a fixed width with a 100% height setting) My programmer says "don't think so" but I'm hoping one of you will say "yes" and have some brilliant "how-to" for me. From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 12:48:20 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:48:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <00b401c00c59$cc376920$3e01a8c0@em12> References: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFMEEIDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <200008221748.KAB28595@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Eduardo Dominguez" <edmz at emonterrey.com> > > can anyone refresh my memory on how to block this sites on > my pc? > it was some file modifying, but dont quite remember how.... > thanks in advance.... isaac had talked about using the .host file on your windows box... just add the domain to the .hosts file and point it to nowhere... he explains it better in his post (which i can't find right now) From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 13:07:28 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:07:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] accessing a dynamically written layer Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822201128.00be1440@mail.nerdsoul.com> ok voltees, here's the mystery that i'm confronted to. i have some text from a textbox :: content=text+'<div id=\"L'+nl+'\" style=\"position:absolute; background: red; left:5; top:'+t+';\">foo<\/div>'; i write it in the page with appendHTML or open()/write()/close() when i want to access the layer, the browser kicks me hardly. it seems that the DOM is interpreted only at once on page load.am i wrong ? i tried to instatiate an object, but it didn't changed anything.* thoughts ? From deboute at fr.clara.net Tue Aug 22 13:14:33 2000 From: deboute at fr.clara.net (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:14:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows In-Reply-To: <39A2BB6A.E2E39E74@nouveauxvisages.com> References: <20000821140904.DEE81A902F@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822201815.00d1a530@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 13:42 22/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >Is there a way to set a pop-up window to be a specific width >horizontally but take up the entire available screen area vertically? >(Like the concept of setting a fixed width with a 100% height setting) you can set the height as a variable, and assign the screen resolution to it. i don't remember the method to get this with IE. function findEdges(){ if(document.all) { rightEdge bottomEdge } else { if(document.layers) { rightEdge = screen.width; bottomEdge = screen.height; } } } From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 13:30:22 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:30:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows In-Reply-To: <39A2BB6A.E2E39E74@nouveauxvisages.com> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFAEENDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Easy : var window_width = screen.width-12; var window_height = screen.height-buffer; buffer = 180 for NS 406-408, 198 otherwise HTH, Ron Got a full script for popping a window/sniffing browser, etc. that I got from htmlguru.com if you want it. From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 13:33:46 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:33:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping In-Reply-To: <B5C82EBD.16124%james@designframe.com> References: <4.3.0.20000822190954.00d8ad70@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822204205.00bb3f00@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 13:21 22/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >b. and I could define an array and stick values into it and keep 'em all >global no matter where I set them. GLOBAL variables ARE put in a in-built array i.e <? $var='bar'; function foo() { GLOBAL $var; echo $var; } function foo() { GLOBAL["var"]; } ?> From sbienek at acep.org Tue Aug 22 13:39:19 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:39:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0482@SERVER04> > isaac had talked about using the .host file on your windows box... > > just add the domain to the .hosts file and point it to nowhere... he > explains it better in his post (which i can't find right now) I'd be extremely interested in reading this.. I've experimented with the idea, but haven't been able to set up a kind of "catch-all" for domains.. I've only been able to do it on a server-by-server basis. Anyone? Isaac? Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From jay at weberrific.org Tue Aug 22 13:39:32 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:39:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Credit Card Processing Software? Message-ID: <200008221839.OAA18790@server5000.net> Hi. A friend of mine is interested in processing credit cards on his site. I recommended outsourcing it to a a company that specializes in such-like, but for the life of me could not remember the name of even one. Also, he is considering doing the processing himself. So: 1) What companies out there will process credit-card orders for you (in return for a percentage of the transaction, I assume) 2) What software is out there to process credit card transactions yourself, and has anyone had any experience with the package(s). Thanks ever so much, <tip type="javacript" subject="cross-browser compatibility"> If you use split() to array-ize a string, you may encounter something interesting; look at this code: var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase(); var is_ie = (agt.indexOf("msie") != -1); cartContents = "item1|item2|item3|"; items = cartContents.split("|"); var numItems = items.length; // cross-browser fix *** if (is_ie) numItems -= 1; // *** otherwise, numItems will contain one more than the "expected" number of items in your IE application. Oddly enough, NS works just fine. Go figure. </tip> - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From john at newmediawhore.com Tue Aug 22 13:44:22 2000 From: john at newmediawhore.com (John Handelaar) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:44:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0482@SERVER04> Message-ID: <CAEOJCJALIILCCOOOELHOENPCBAA.john@newmediawhore.com> Basically, you add the offending servers to your hosts file and map them all to 127.0.0.1. Broken images ahoy. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Seth Bienek - Web > Consultant > Sent: 22 August 2000 19:38 > To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking > > > > > isaac had talked about using the .host file on your windows box... > > > > just add the domain to the .hosts file and point it to nowhere... he > > explains it better in his post (which i can't find right now) From james at designframe.com Tue Aug 22 13:44:49 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:44:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20000822204205.00bb3f00@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <B5C8423C.16155%james@designframe.com> on 8/22/00 2:44 PM, deboute benjamin at deboute at nerdsoul.com wrote: > GLOBAL variables ARE put in a in-built array ahh!, thanks. (I'm learning, I'm learning...) :) <tip type="PHP"> in PHP is you need to set a cookie or alter an HTTP header. Do it at the top of the page, and don't print (or echo) anything to the page in that php block. </tip> James. From elisabeth at xuxygrafix.com Tue Aug 22 13:56:30 2000 From: elisabeth at xuxygrafix.com (Elisabeth Heinicke) Date: Tue Aug 22 13:56:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] Credit Card Processing Software? References: <200008221839.OAA18790@server5000.net> Message-ID: <39A2CFE9.B3FE6557@xuxygrafix.com> paypal for 1.9% --Elisabeth H. > 1) What companies out there will process credit-card orders for you (in > return for a percentage of the transaction, I assume) > From sbienek at acep.org Tue Aug 22 14:06:10 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:06:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0483@SERVER04> > Basically, you add the offending servers to your hosts > file and map them all to 127.0.0.1. Broken images ahoy. Right. I gathered that. My question is, must an entry be added for every server within the domain, or is there a way to cover all servers with one entry? ex. ad.doubleclick.net, ad2.doubleclick.net, www.doubleclick.net, m.doubleclick.net, and m0.doubleclick.net would all require a seperate hosts file entry, right? And when they add new servers, those aren't covered until they are added. There a way around this? Hmm? :) Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From james at designframe.com Tue Aug 22 14:09:40 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:09:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0483@SERVER04> Message-ID: <B5C8483F.16172%james@designframe.com> on 8/22/00 3:05 PM, Seth Bienek - Web Consultant at sbienek at acep.org wrote: > There a way around this? Hmm? :) does *.doubleclick.net. work? James. From deboute at fr.clara.net Tue Aug 22 14:09:51 2000 From: deboute at fr.clara.net (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:09:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] PHP variable scoping In-Reply-To: <B5C8423C.16155%james@designframe.com> References: <4.3.0.20000822204205.00bb3f00@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822211545.00c60430@POP3.club-internet.fr> ><tip type="PHP"> >in PHP is you need to set a cookie or alter an HTTP header. Do it at the top >of the page, and don't print (or echo) anything to the page in that php >block. ></tip> you can configure your server in a way it can send multiple HEADER at anymoment of the script ( but the server goes slower ). i think. well, my 2centimes From sbienek at acep.org Tue Aug 22 14:18:45 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:18:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0484@SERVER04> > > There a way around this? Hmm? :) > > does *.doubleclick.net. work? Nope. Thanks for playing. :) Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From javier at msm.cl Tue Aug 22 14:37:37 2000 From: javier at msm.cl (javier) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:37:37 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <39A2D444.88FE6D5F@msm.cl> Isaac Forman wrote: > we're evolt.org, not a subset, nor a part, of a banner-toting "vortal". i don't think it's necessary either > also, i'd rather increase membership (if that's what you're after) by increasing > awareness of evolt within web agencies worldwide, rather than aligning with an > open source network and a community, elements of which constantly torture > slashdot forums with bullshit and misinformation. +1, i've also tried the best i can to don some evolt evangelization round here on my part, i spread evolt flyers on the conferecnes i go, wear the shirt every time i know someone might understand it, and talk about it to each webdev i meet but the problem is the language (we talk spanish here) > some members of evolt.org have griped about the lack of design-related threads. > they're right, and there are alot of backend threads which are too advanced for > many readers. talking to agencies and getting more designers and frontend people > on board in the process could do a good job of balancing thelist. +1, the content of the threads is what we make of them... and though i know admins are not gods, there are really admirable people on admin who spend serious amounts of time keeping and improving this whole thing big thanks ;-) -- -javier- http://mantruc.com http://evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt! From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 14:45:45 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:45:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0482@SERVER04> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFGEFADFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> <snip> but haven't been able to set up a kind of "catch-all" for domains.. I've only been able to do it on a server-by-server basis. </snip> Uh, I just explained how to do this if you're using IE.... Ron From kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com Tue Aug 22 14:56:16 2000 From: kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com (kev.skindrill) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:56:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac References: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEEDDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> <200008221449.HAA07046@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <016001c00c73$6707a320$729f883e@y3s2e7> Me again Sorry, I seem to be asking a lot of questions lately without giving much back. Because I'm doing this all on my own I have nowhere else to go if a problem has me stumped & you all seem to be so helpful. I like to think of the List as the equivalent of office companions eg. people to turn to in times of crisis when all other avenues have failed (that sounds really sad doesn't it). Hope this is OK & that I'm not abusing the rules of the List. My current problem is more of an annoyance than anything else. On the site I recently put up for ridicule is an on-line quote service that, when completed, is automatically e-mailed to my boss. I'm using the CDONTS method of ASP to achieve this & have set the e-mail to be sent in HTML with <br/> tags to seperate the lines. The output looks fine when I test it on my PC but on my boss' iMac the results show up as one long line, no breaks. I am not familiar with the iMac system so I would like to know if this is a problem with my code, or if it a setting in the e-mail program he is using (Outlook Express). The reason I need the breaks is because I want him to be able to just add the price of the job & his signature to the end of the mail & send it back again. Obviously it needs to be legible. When I look at the source of the e-mail it shows up with the breaks intact, it's only when you view the mail that it is all in 1 line. Any ideas? Thanks (again) in advance K From CEwing at sscinc.com Tue Aug 22 14:59:21 2000 From: CEwing at sscinc.com (Ewing, Christopher) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:59:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac Message-ID: <4C8A86158E9FD31199C00008C7CFCC8B02440BE3@EXCHANGE> Well... I can't answer for the iMac as I'm an NT user, but... this is how I format my e-mail using CDONTS MessageBody = FormVariable1 & " some text here & VBNewLine & "Some more text here." & VBNewLine That works great for everyone I've ever sent to and also doesn't force them to be on an HTML capable mail reader. Chris Personal Quote - "Bu toigh leam leann" -----Original Message----- From: kev.skindrill [mailto:kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 3:57 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac Me again Sorry, I seem to be asking a lot of questions lately without giving much back. Because I'm doing this all on my own I have nowhere else to go if a problem has me stumped & you all seem to be so helpful. I like to think of the List as the equivalent of office companions eg. people to turn to in times of crisis when all other avenues have failed (that sounds really sad doesn't it). Hope this is OK & that I'm not abusing the rules of the List. My current problem is more of an annoyance than anything else. On the site I recently put up for ridicule is an on-line quote service that, when completed, is automatically e-mailed to my boss. I'm using the CDONTS method of ASP to achieve this & have set the e-mail to be sent in HTML with <br/> tags to seperate the lines. The output looks fine when I test it on my PC but on my boss' iMac the results show up as one long line, no breaks. I am not familiar with the iMac system so I would like to know if this is a problem with my code, or if it a setting in the e-mail program he is using (Outlook Express). The reason I need the breaks is because I want him to be able to just add the price of the job & his signature to the end of the mail & send it back again. Obviously it needs to be legible. When I look at the source of the e-mail it shows up with the breaks intact, it's only when you view the mail that it is all in 1 line. Any ideas? Thanks (again) in advance K --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From james at designframe.com Tue Aug 22 15:02:31 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:02:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac In-Reply-To: <016001c00c73$6707a320$729f883e@y3s2e7> Message-ID: <B5C8549F.161A3%james@designframe.com> on 8/22/00 3:56 PM, kev.skindrill at kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com wrote: > The output looks fine when I test it on my PC > but on my boss' iMac the results show up as one long line, no breaks. I am > not familiar with the iMac system so I would like to know if this is a > problem with my code, or if it a setting in the e-mail program he is using > (Outlook Express). what is the content-type SMTP header? is it "text/html"? does he see the html tags? Is IE 5.0 installed on the iMac? What version of Outlook? James. From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 15:06:02 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:06:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac In-Reply-To: <016001c00c73$6707a320$729f883e@y3s2e7> Message-ID: <200008222006.NAA06535@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "kev.skindrill" <kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com> > > to achieve this & have set the e-mail to be sent in HTML with <br/> > tags to seperate the lines. The output looks fine when I test it on my html mail? yuk... <br/> is not a tag... <br> is... in HTML <br /> is in XHTML... use the <br>... i'll bet that mail reader doesn't know XHTML, so why bother adding a '/' anyway... From sbienek at acep.org Tue Aug 22 15:06:17 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:06:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0485@SERVER04> Hi Ron, I'm hip to the restricted sites thing for IE you covered. It's a gem, and thanks. :) But... What I'm specifically interested in doing is blocking all data coming from those domains by using the hosts file. In other words, not just the javascript and cookie info, but images and text as well. Knowhutimean? (Do I get bonus points for an incomplete sentence beginning with an injucnction and followed by gratuitous ellipses?) Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ron White > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking > > > <snip> > but haven't been able to set up a kind of "catch-all" for domains.. > I've only been able to do it on a server-by-server basis. > </snip> > > Uh, I just explained how to do this if you're using IE.... > > Ron > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From dascott at wam.umd.edu Tue Aug 22 15:09:59 2000 From: dascott at wam.umd.edu (dave gray) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:09:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] Another Netscape problem In-Reply-To: <002101c00c4d$6d0d09c0$6ae6bd9d@softwareag.co.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008221435580.11462-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu> On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Jagjeet Hayer wrote: > Ok, here goes. The select box is dynamically populated from a servlet. I > then need to retrieve one of these values depending on what the user selects > from another select box which is displayed on the screen. so would the code to generate the select box look like: <select name=select1>  </select> ? > So I want the first select box to be hidden because it is there purely as a > data element. i don't understand why you have to use that hidden select box to store your data... i think things would be a lot easier for you if you used a javascript array as your data element, like so: <input type=hidden name=select1 value="default"> <select name=select2 onchange="makeItSo(this.selectedIndex);"> <option value="whatever" selected> </select> <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript"> ', ''); function makeItSo(val) { document.forms[0].select1.value=optionArray[val]; } makeItSo(document.forms[0].selected2.selectedIndex); // --> </script> so that you pull the values out of the servlet and put them into a javascript array which you grab them back out of when your visible select box is changed if you have any more questions, feel free to ask, or if i'm not understanding your problem, let me know that too :) HTH -dave From rwhite at edverify.com Tue Aug 22 15:22:10 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:22:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0485@SERVER04> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFOEFEDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Seth, Kewl, be nice if one of the options for Custom was "Block all content from site", eh? Ron BTW trim yer posts laddie :-) From sbienek at acep.org Tue Aug 22 15:29:58 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:29:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0486@SERVER04> > But... > > (Do I get bonus points for an incomplete sentence beginning with an > injucnction and followed by gratuitous ellipses?) er.. I meant.. Conjunction.. That's what I get for trying to hang with the literate types.. More ellipses.... Need to spend less time consulting my "Fred Sanford guide to Grammar".. >Kewl, be nice if one of the options for Custom was "Block all content from >site", eh? Indubitably! Heh heh... Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer From peter at hammar.ch Tue Aug 22 15:31:40 2000 From: peter at hammar.ch (Peter Hammar) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:31:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> >I'd be extremely interested in reading this.. I've experimented with the >idea, but haven't been able to set up a kind of "catch-all" for domains.. >I've only been able to do it on a server-by-server basis. Hi, a great adblocker is available on http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html from the faq: "It blocks requests for URLs (typically banner ads) that match its blockfile. It also deletes unauthorized cookies and other unwanted identifying header information that is exchanged between web servers and browsers." Takes some time to install, but that's a small price to pay for peace. Peter Hammar webdesigner from Geneva, Switzerland From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 15:48:29 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:48:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> Message-ID: <200008222048.NAA10593@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> i use IDcide on IE/win... supposedly they now support NN users... http://www.idcide.com/ > From: "Peter Hammar" <peter at hammar.ch> > > a great adblocker is available on > http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html From kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com Tue Aug 22 16:14:27 2000 From: kev.skindrill at bigfoot.com (kev.skindrill) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:14:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac References: <200008222006.NAA06535@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <023601c00c7e$52b3c6a0$729f883e@y3s2e7> > <br/> is not a tag... > > <br> is... in HTML > > <br /> is in XHTML... > > use the <br>... i'll bet that mail reader doesn't know XHTML, so > why bother adding a '/' anyway... A-ha! I think this could be the problem. I used <br/> because of recent threads concerning XHTML and that it is good practice to start using it <DOH!> Got it wrong again</DOH!> ,and, yes, I do know that <DOH!> is not a valid tag as well :) >what is the content-type SMTP header? is it "text/html"? Actually, what it says is that it is a "multi-part message in MIME format" with both "Content-type: text/plain" and "Content-type: text/html". I do remember setting the MIME content in the ASP. Should I remove this line? >does he see the html tags? Is IE 5.0 installed on the iMac? What version of >Outlook? No, yes, 4.5 (I think) Cheers K From pdronzek at uswest.net Tue Aug 22 16:28:28 2000 From: pdronzek at uswest.net (Pete Dronzek) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:28:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Fireworks rumors? In-Reply-To: <B5C6DF51.1480D%gsd@mac.com> References: <00ed01c00aee$c6b7c380$3e2a893e@v0d8h2> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000822142802.00b285c8@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Has anyone heard anything about when the next versions of Dreamweaver and Fireworks are planned? I'd like to upgrade from version 2 of each, but I'd prefer not to be a victim of Macromedia's rather rapid product cycle if I can avoid it... Pete From waves at atlantic.net Tue Aug 22 16:29:56 2000 From: waves at atlantic.net (Jonathan) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:29:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] Bulletin Board References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA64@SBS> Message-ID: <39A2F03D.70A01998@atlantic.net> What is a good simple bulletin board for non-profit road running club. Traffic volume is expected to be very low. TIA Jonathan From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 16:52:06 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:52:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] Bulletin Board In-Reply-To: <39A2F03D.70A01998@atlantic.net> References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA64@SBS> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000822235839.00d0c470@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 17:27 22/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >What is a good simple bulletin board for non-profit road running club. >Traffic volume is expected to be very low. http://www.phorum.org (php) tested and approved. warning :: very feeble on the doc, but mainly on the advanced functions [ mailing-lists/newsgroups propagation ]. From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 17:09:45 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:09:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking Message-ID: <082b24810221680DIAL1@cwcom.net> Peter Hammar wrote on 22/8/00 9:30 pm >a great adblocker is available on http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html > >from the faq: >"It blocks requests for URLs (typically banner ads) that match its >blockfile. It also deletes unauthorized cookies and other unwanted >identifying header information that is exchanged between web servers and >browsers." y'know, this could be one of the best applications for the kind of proxy servers which big corporates have, that stop you accessing anything HR deem to be 'fun'. Ironic funblocking episode of this week: http://www.bebigbrother.com/ Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 17:09:52 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:09:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] E-mails for iMac Message-ID: <082375010221680DIAL1@cwcom.net> kev.skindrill wrote on 22/8/00 10:13 pm >and, yes, I do know that <DOH!> is not a >valid tag as well :) Could be valid in SimpsonsML - a new XML DTD with sound effects. cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Tue Aug 22 17:10:00 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:10:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] Credit Card Processing Software? Message-ID: <082885110221680DIAL1@cwcom.net> Jay Turley wrote on 22/8/00 7:39 pm >1) What companies out there will process credit-card orders for you (in >return for a percentage of the transaction, I assume) you seen http://www.econgo.com/ ? Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From framar at interlog.com Tue Aug 22 17:34:10 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:34:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF: Browse server Class? Message-ID: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]> Can anyone point me to the source/information that allows me to use the 'browse server' class that we use to setup a dsn? The actual page is encrypted, and I can't find it in my docs. Thanks -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From Leonard.Tafro at raremedium.com Tue Aug 22 17:38:53 2000 From: Leonard.Tafro at raremedium.com (Leonard Tafro) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:38:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Fireworks rumors? Message-ID: <9BAE38A9FFC8D311B56000508B732A0351F8CC@LAXMSG01> >From a trusted Macromedia insider: "You won't see new releases of either of these packages until after the first of the new year. " Version three of DW is ................... -----Original Message----- From: Pete Dronzek [mailto:pdronzek at uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:31 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Fireworks rumors? Has anyone heard anything about when the next versions of Dreamweaver and Fireworks are planned? I'd like to upgrade from version 2 of each, but I'd prefer not to be a victim of Macromedia's rather rapid product cycle if I can avoid it... Pete --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From krr at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 22 18:01:53 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Tue Aug 22 18:01:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion References: <B5C84D82.148EF%gsd@mac.com> Message-ID: <013b01c00c8d$ffc386a0$0200000a@pavilion> Stepping into this thread late and all but,... I think I followed a link from this site that led to some really detailed articles on registering you own dot.com but I was just asked to register a name and haven't done it before. From all that I have read I really couldn't see anything that led me to beleive there was anything complicated about it. I see a ton of questions posted everywhere, so basically is there more to registering a name? thanx krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Donnelly" <gsd at mac.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion > http://www.gandi.net/ 12 euros/year or (currently) USD10.83 PLUS they > explicitly state that the registrant is the owner! > > http://www.gandi.net/faq.html.en > > Regards, > GEORGE DONNELLY > george at cyklotron.com > http://cyklotron.com/ > The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions. --Alfred > Adler > > > The cheapest I know of is joker.com which is > > about 15 dollars a year(correct me if i'm wrong someone) > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jwaterbury at doremussf.com Tue Aug 22 18:05:22 2000 From: jwaterbury at doremussf.com (Jane Waterbury) Date: Tue Aug 22 18:05:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] Bulletin Board In-Reply-To: <39A2F03D.70A01998@atlantic.net> Message-ID: <B5C85505.459%jwaterbury@doremussf.com> Here's a link to one from Matt's script archive. I've used other scripts from here and they work well. The documentation is good. Jane http://www.worldwidemart.com/scripts/wwwboard.shtml on 8/22/00 2:27 PM, Jonathan at waves at atlantic.net wrote: > What is a good simple bulletin board for non-profit road running club. > Traffic volume is expected to be very low. > > TIA > > Jonathan > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From deboute at nerdsoul.com Tue Aug 22 18:14:06 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Tue Aug 22 18:14:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] voodoo freebie Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000823011807.00d0aeb0@mail.nerdsoul.com> <tip author="deboute benjamin" type="voodoo"> when you dynamically change document.StyleSheets[x].src in IE5 ( for sure ), be aware the it starts taking care of your style declarations only at the third line of the .css file. So these misters at MS want us to code like that :: <style> // i don't care  > </select> > > ? > > > > So I want the first select box to be hidden because it is there > purely as a > > data element. > > i don't understand why you have to use that hidden select box to store > your data... i think things would be a lot easier for you if you used a > javascript array as your data element, like so: > > <input type=hidden name=select1 value="default"> > <select name=select2 > onchange="makeItSo(this.selectedIndex);"> > <option value="whatever" selected> > </select> > > <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript"> > ', > ''); > > function makeItSo(val) { > document.forms[0].select1.value=optionArray[val]; > } > makeItSo(document.forms[0].selected2.selectedIndex); > // --> > </script> > > so that you pull the values out of the servlet and put them into a > javascript array which you grab them back out of when your visible select > box is changed > > if you have any more questions, feel free to ask, or if i'm not > understanding your problem, let me know that too :) > > HTH > > -dave From martin at members.evolt.org Wed Aug 23 03:41:03 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Wed Aug 23 03:41:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] whatis.com redesigned into uselessness. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821210648.00b818d0@203.197.60.113> References: <20000821140904.DEE81A902F@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823075655.00ba5d10@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:48 21/08/00, Madhu Menon wrote: >OK. I've got to ask here. Exactly why on earth did they NEED to move to >StoryServer? We have some guys inhouse who underwent training on it and I >can tell you that it is a *very* labour intensive process to get it up and >running. Is that the original StoryServer, or is it the current Vignette system? The Vignette suite now does a hell of a lot more than the very basic (only really works for news sites) content management which StoryServer did up to a few months ago. It now goes much more heavily into personalisation (they bundle NetPerceptions, the engine Amazon uses for recommendations), distributed workflow etc. I'm currently in the middle of a cms tendering process, and have been very impressed with the new Vignette. Compare this to the low opinion I had of it on thelist and on thesite earlier in the year... (although on a limited budget and free choice of app server, I'm still recommending Spectra - if anyone has direct experience with it (+ve or -ve), please drop me a line. >Exactly what is so complex about the content management requirements for >whatis.com? At the end of the day, it revolves around a database of terms >and their definitions. Relatively simply DB design. Heck, coding the >entire site should be a day's job on most platform/db combinations. (OK, >I'm talking about the core programming part). Why deploy expensive >technology like Vignette? You're right - for what they're doing today, they don't need to spend $1m+ on Vignette, but you (rarely) splash out that kind of cash based on your present needs. If I knew their forward plans (and assuming I wasn't under NDA), I could probably tell you why they need Vignette. Who *knows* where they're going - whether or not that's a good idea is a different question of course. And in the final analysis, there's *still* a non-zero probability that it's been bought on a 'pissing with the big boys' basis. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaN4HnHoHnCoNczLEQJYxQCgnDbXEjQhJRTEAMvI1vlnaRPnIXQAnA4a 4qtHazHlDund1JYhbHbguFfC =lKlL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Wed Aug 23 03:41:14 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Wed Aug 23 03:41:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823080755.00ba3650@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 05:08 22/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >They're trying to make a site (for people like myself and >others) for a quick 'one-stop-look' at the sites that audience likes. Right, so it's a syndication play, yes? We'd be taking a similar position to Reuters (except that unlike them, we'd have our own site too) - distribute our content as headlines to other sites. Now to a certain extent that's what slashboxen are about (and Netscape channels etc); this is a step forward. Question: doesn't this compete with a lot of what /. are doing? With slashboxen, they're trying to aggregate a lot of content and be that OS vortal. Or is the /. strategy to move away from that, and tout OSDN as taking that role? Next question (and I think you've hinted at the answer): Why are we doing this? Usually there are 3 reasons for syndicating your content out: 1) You get paid for it (eg Reuters) 2) You use it to draw a specific audience back to yourself (eg Freshmeat) 3) You have a duty to get your content out there pro bono publica, to reach parts of your audience who may not normally (get the time to) visit your site (eg BBC News) Obviously I don't see option 1 as a viable one for us. However, I think the other 2 options are valid, but understanding what the bias is towards one or the other will be useful in making a decision. Can anyone think of any other reasons for doing this? Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaN69nHoHnCoNczLEQJBXQCfdaGLq8EoG/Jqcbfdb444wABMhRMAoPFB oHrB3hpniNaEkWufzGY7+fYY =QSq2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From netzdrache at gmx.net Wed Aug 23 04:34:07 2000 From: netzdrache at gmx.net (Sonja Krause-Harder) Date: Wed Aug 23 04:34:07 2000 Subject: [thelist] 1px table borders in netscape (and a vi question) References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008222118070.16676-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: <24514.967023258@www1.gmx.net> > I am trying to make tables with a 1px black border using the following > attributes in my table tag: > > border="0" cellspacing="1" bgcolor="#000000" > > but this doesn't work in netscape, i assume this is because netscape > doesn't support the bgcolor attribute, since it isn't defined in the > HTML 4.0 specification. so in netscape, the borders just end up being > the same > color as the background of the page. Is there anyway to get this to work > in netscape? I usually use nested tables to accomplish this:  <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#000000"> <tr> <td>  <table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#ffffff"> <tr><td>as many rows and columns as you like</td></tr> </table>  </td> </tr> </table>  that's what you were looking for? playing around with spacing and padding in _both_ tables does help to achieve preferred result kind regards sonja From lisa at koolfish.com Wed Aug 23 05:29:28 2000 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew) Date: Wed Aug 23 05:29:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] css - margin-right property Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAIEIICAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> Dear Listees ok this should be mega easy for most of you. I am virtually just beginning learning css. I have an image in a table. The table is 100% the image right aligned. In IE the image goes right to the edge of the browser window. In Netscape it does not. I presume the only way to do this is with css. I have made an external style sheet in notepad. So far it only contains the following: BODY {margin-right: 0} Do I have to specify a length such as px to make it work? Also have I linked the css file correctly to the page? I wrote: <LINK rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="lawton.css"> and put it in the head section. The page I am working on can be found at www.lawtonasia.com/test I want the navigation bar to go to the right edge of the page. Thank you Lisa. From cvos at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 05:31:04 2000 From: cvos at yahoo.com (cayley vos) Date: Wed Aug 23 05:31:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP database linking Message-ID: <20000823103110.28353.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com> simple question from a simpleton ASP/Access programmer: I want to link to the next fields on a database using 5 at a time. I want to be able to have a next and previous link at the bottom of the page to move between results pages that only show 5 fields each. my code <a href='lotions.asp?<%=URLArgs("RECORD_INDEX", +5)%>'>next</a></td> offending page http://cafesensuale.com/lotions.asp thanks, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From chris at phosphors.net Wed Aug 23 05:31:09 2000 From: chris at phosphors.net (Chris Houston.) Date: Wed Aug 23 05:31:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] Forwarding browser requests References: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008222307590.30066-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <009901c00ced$0e967de0$0201a8c0@turing> Tony Grimes typed: > <<gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/sports>> will point (from our office server) to the > sports section on the university server at > <<www.ucalgary.ca/~gauntlet/eg/sports>> > > Is there a way for our office server to forward this request directly > to the university server without the user noticing (i.e. I don't want to > use a client-side page reload with JavaScript) We're using Appleshare > 6.1 and the university uses Unix (AIX)? TIA You don't have to use JavaScript, you could use a meta refresh, i.e: <meta http-equiv="refresh" Content="0; URL=http://www.ucalgary.ca/~gauntlet/eg/sports"> If you put this as the only contents of the index file at http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/sports/, without HTML headers and other things, the change will be unnoticable by the user. The other option is to use a server redirect response. This might be configurable in the web server's control panels, or you could use some server scripting to do the same. (I don't know what scripting AppleShare uses, but in ASP you'd put <% response.redirect "http://www.ucalgary.ca/~gauntlet/eg/sports" %> as the sole contents of the file.) Chris Houston. Creative Director Phosphors Intermedia. From cvos at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 06:15:17 2000 From: cvos at yahoo.com (cayley vos) Date: Wed Aug 23 06:15:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <20000823111535.10238.qmail@web611.mail.yahoo.com> I know how to write an .htaccess file to cause a redirect on a website server if the queried page does not exist (for 404,500 etc. errors) can anyone elucidate me on this process using ASP for an NT server? thanks so much! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk Wed Aug 23 06:59:00 2000 From: wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk (William Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 23 06:59:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <E4FFD8CEE1C7D21188AC00105AAFD06CCD7BB8@bd1_mail.wsatkins.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: cayley vos [SMTP:cvos at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:16 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] ASP question > > I know how to write an .htaccess file to cause a > redirect on a website server if the queried page does > not exist (for 404,500 etc. errors) can anyone > elucidate me on this process using ASP for an NT > server? > > thanks so much! > > If using Apache, the docs for access control by means of .htaccess are If using IIS 3.0, you can't do this IIRC. If using IIS 4.0, use the MMC, and select the properties of the host, directory or virtual directory you want to deal with, select the custom error tab, and you can modify the location of the HTML templates used to generate error msgs, or using the location shown, you can drill into the files themselves as installed and modify them (i'd recommend using your own files and pointing to them). By default, error msg templates are stored in C:\WINNT\help\common with the file name nnn.htm (where nnn is the error). Where IIS has variants of an error, such as 401; 3, then file is nnn-x.htm - e.g., 401-3.htm good to see that my 89% pass on the IIS 4 exam wasn't put to waste ;) cheers'en -- William Anderson, WS Atkins IT Scotland, Glasgow E-mail: wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)141 332 7030 x2216 - Fax: +44 (0)141 331 2481 From wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk Wed Aug 23 07:05:36 2000 From: wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk (William Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:05:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <E4FFD8CEE1C7D21188AC00105AAFD06CCD7BB9@bd1_mail.wsatkins.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: William Anderson [SMTP:wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:58 PM > To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thelist] ASP question > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cayley vos [SMTP:cvos at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:16 PM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: [thelist] ASP question > > > > I know how to write an .htaccess file to cause a > > redirect on a website server if the queried page does > > not exist (for 404,500 etc. errors) can anyone > > elucidate me on this process using ASP for an NT > > server? > > > > thanks so much! > > > > > If using Apache, the docs for access control by means of .htaccess are [snip] oops mess-up :) the docs for custom error messages are here: http://www.apache.org/docs/custom-error.html also meant to say that if you reconfigure IIS 4.0 to use different error msgs, you could point the errors to ASP pages which redirect you to other pages/servers if that is your intention, by means of ASP header control or HTML META REFRESH. cheers'en -- William Anderson, WS Atkins IT Scotland, Glasgow E-mail: wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)141 332 7030 x2216 - Fax: +44 (0)141 331 2481 From k.spice at acu.ac.uk Wed Aug 23 07:06:44 2000 From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:06:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] wednesday techie freebie Message-ID: <39A3BE63.E2A479A1@acu.ac.uk> <tip type="configuring programs you didn't write"> when things don't appear to be working as they should, check the value of the variables which define /path/to/thing/ and make sure it's the same one that you want/expect/the websever is looking at, before anything else. this will save you pain. </tip> <tip type="installing slashcode"> think twice. this is _not_ a quick fix. </tip> katherine From _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 23 07:13:25 2000 From: _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mike=20King?=) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:13:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP database linking Message-ID: <20000823121342.17473.qmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com> ASPToday have an article today on exactly what you need . http://www.asptoday.com Cheers mk --- cayley vos <cvos at yahoo.com> wrote: > simple question from a simpleton ASP/Access > programmer: I want to link to the next fields on a > database using 5 at a time. I want to be able to have > a next and previous link at the bottom of the page to > move between results pages that only show 5 fields > each. > > my code > > <a href='lotions.asp?<%=URLArgs("RECORD_INDEX", > +5)%>'>next</a></td> > > offending page > > http://cafesensuale.com/lotions.asp > thanks, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > ===== Get your free wombles.com email address @ http://www.wombles.com e. mike.king at redroom.co.uk t. 07971 292 999 ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From algrimes at acs.ucalgary.ca Wed Aug 23 07:18:03 2000 From: algrimes at acs.ucalgary.ca (Tony Grimes) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:18:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] Server software for the Mac Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> The more I use Appleshare IP, the more I realize that it sucks as web server software. Can anyone recommend a good alternative for the Mac (B&W G3/OS8.5)? I'm specifically looking for scriptability (MacPerl is fine) and complete web-logging capabilities. I'm not looking for a powerhouse since it will only be hosting the front door of a site. A good price range would be under $250-$1000(US); maybe more if it absolutely kicks ass. TIA .tony From _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 23 07:19:57 2000 From: _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mike=20King?=) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:19:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <20000823122014.4995.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com> It's setup through the virtual server setup screens (either via web or the MMC) <tip type="iis custom errors" author="Mike King"> when you set up a custom error page within and IIS Virtual server. Point the errors at a URL, instead of an actual file. e.g. http://mysite.com/Errors/index.asp NOT c:\SiteFolder\ThisSite\Errors\index.asp Because, then IIS will pass the error number and the offending page to your error page e.g. try to go to http://mysite.com/NoPage.html Error goes to: http://mysite.com/Errors/index.asp?404;http://mysite/NoPage.html Then with a little coding you can tell the user nicely where they've gone wrong. </tip> --- cayley vos <cvos at yahoo.com> wrote: > I know how to write an .htaccess file to cause a > redirect on a website server if the queried page does > not exist (for 404,500 etc. errors) can anyone > elucidate me on this process using ASP for an NT > server? > > thanks so much! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > ===== Get your free wombles.com email address @ http://www.wombles.com e. mike.king at redroom.co.uk t. 07971 292 999 ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 07:25:19 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:25:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question In-Reply-To: <E4FFD8CEE1C7D21188AC00105AAFD06CCD7BB8@bd1_mail.wsatkins.co.uk> Message-ID: <200008231225.FAA29480@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: William Anderson > > If using IIS 4.0, use the MMC, and select the > properties of the host, [snip] it's worth noting that many (all, IME) shared NT hosts won't allow each site to have custom error pages, so they use the default IIS pages... From VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil Wed Aug 23 07:34:29 2000 From: VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil (Villano, Paul) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:34:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML Code for Page Breaks when Printing? Message-ID: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> Is it possible to include HTML code (if so, what is it?) for page breaks when printing HTML pages? I have pages that print nicely but just don't break at the appropriate spots and breaking them into different files is not an option. Thanks in advance! PAUL Personal Mission: Born to do the will of GOD, living to show others the Love of GOD, Destined to live in joy with GOD forevermore...no matter what! From Julia_Frizzell at Brown.edu Wed Aug 23 07:44:35 2000 From: Julia_Frizzell at Brown.edu (Julia Frizzell) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:44:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Server software for the Mac In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> References: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <p04320404b5c976aef395@[128.148.108.60]> > The more I use Appleshare IP, the more I realize that it sucks as >web server software. Can anyone recommend a good alternative for the Mac >(B&W G3/OS8.5)? > I'm specifically looking for scriptability (MacPerl is fine) and >complete web-logging capabilities. I'm not looking for a powerhouse since >it will only be hosting the front door of a site. A good price range would >be under $250-$1000(US); maybe more if it absolutely kicks ass. TIA WebStar from StarNine is the best way to go for Mac web hosts. It's $599 from their site (http://www.webstar.com), but might be available cheaper elsewhere. -- ------------------------------- Julia Frizzell julia_frizzell at brown.edu glyneth at netspace.org http://www.netspace.org/~glyneth http://www.theblackroad.org "Insert pithy quote here." From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Aug 23 07:54:17 2000 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:54:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: open source development network In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823080755.00ba3650@members.evolt.org> References: <39A1FCBE.59E8D41C@five2one.org> Message-ID: <39A3D72F.6528.2DA6BC@localhost> [snip] > Obviously I don't see option 1 as a viable one for us. However, > I think the other 2 options are valid, but understanding what the bias > is towards one or the other will be useful in making a decision. > > Can anyone think of any other reasons for doing this? I would like to think there's a somewhat philanthropic reason as well. >From front end design and UI issues, through DB's and programming, to discussions about DNS, ICANN etc etc. Rational, intelligent, humorous discussions that have taught me more about the 'net than 4 years in a corporate web-dev enviroment ever did. I have always been incredibly humbled by the amount of help and goodwill I've received from the list no matter how daft the question, and I hope in a small way I am able to give back to this community through tips, offlist emails and evangalising the list to other web workers. Isn't that what we want to achieve? Better web sites through community effort. Becoming part of the OSDN will allow a greater audience to access all this amazing content that has been built by the evolt community. Our community. Anyway, I'm welling up here, so I'm going to stop eulogizing and get on with some work. *:) G. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From james at designframe.com Wed Aug 23 07:54:27 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:54:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] Server software for the Mac In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <B5C94197.1649A%james@designframe.com> on 8/23/00 8:18 AM, Tony Grimes at algrimes at acs.ucalgary.ca wrote: > The more I use Appleshare IP, the more I realize that it sucks as > web server software. Can anyone recommend a good alternative for the Mac > (B&W G3/OS8.5)? > I'm specifically looking for scriptability (MacPerl is fine) and > complete web-logging capabilities. I'm not looking for a powerhouse since > it will only be hosting the front door of a site. A good price range would > be under $250-$1000(US); maybe more if it absolutely kicks ass. TIA WebTEN (http://www.tenon.com/) I've been pleased with this package. I only have one Mac box left, but when I had more they all ran this. Its fast, sometimes a bear to install, but its a BSD virtual machine, so perl is BSD perl - which is nice, and it is a port of Apache. (text config files and all) WebSTAR (http://www.starnine.com) The defacto Mac webserver. Not as fast as WebTEN - but they have market share. AS install and setup is a breeze. James. From Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk Wed Aug 23 07:54:47 2000 From: Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk (Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:54:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] Text size Message-ID: <OFAD51FC02.BA0C5585-ON80256944.00464B28@chi.nhs.uk> Hello all I am after opinion here about setting font sizes in CSS where the user does not loose the ability to change the font size if they wish. I need our web site to be accessible to the poor sighted who may need to enlarge the font sizes. Is percentage the best to use in this case? Or does using either px or pt give the user the ability to increase font size. I'm also sure that this would be useful for those designers who build sites on a PC and only check them on a PC. I use mainly a Mac, and the number of (top) sites I visit where, not only is the text too small to read in the first place, but I am also unable to change the font size at my desire to make the text readable. Zo? Oughton ****************************************************************************** Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Commission for Health Improvement. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please check for viruses before accessing attachments. Although we endeavour to keep files clean we can take no responsibility for any damage caused by contagion. ****************************************************************************** From _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 23 08:09:22 2000 From: _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mike=20King?=) Date: Wed Aug 23 08:09:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML Code for Page Breaks when Printing? Message-ID: <20000823130939.27294.qmail@web214.mail.yahoo.com> There is a way, but AFAIK it only works in IE5+ (not sure about Mozilla/NS6) Get the low down here: <http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/37/index1a_page5.html?tw=authoring> --- "Villano, Paul" <VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil> wrote: > Is it possible to include HTML code (if so, what is it?) for page breaks > when printing HTML pages? ===== Get your free wombles.com email address @ http://www.wombles.com e. mike.king at redroom.co.uk t. 07971 292 999 ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From RLuth at telxon.com Wed Aug 23 08:12:10 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed Aug 23 08:12:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D71E@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi Kev, My bad for starting this mess, I suppose. Nope ... registering a domain name seems to be fairly straightforward and reasonably painless ... even for relative newcomers like me! :-) .... Although .... I would DEFINITELY recommend searching through the archives to see and heed the warnings of George and others here about "reading the fine print" and making sure you OWN the domain name ... {Some registrars appear to be a bit sneaky about only 'leasing' the name to you and retaining ownership for themselves.} The problem I ran into was in trying to 'move' the domain from where it was parked ... to a new host ... I got a little confused working through my registrar's procedures ... but then again I imagine each registrar has their own quirks and peculiarities to deal with ..... Writing "idiot-proof" procedures isn't an easy thing to do .... [Hell - if you give 100 people "simple" directions to your house ... you're still gonna lose a few!] ..... And when you factor in an international audience ... different backgrounds ... different connotative associations for similar words and phrases ... and folks at very very different levels of technical expertise, knowledge, and experience .... Sometimes you're gonna confuse some folks .... ..... the other day it was my turn in the box .... Ron L -----Original Message----- From: kevin raleigh [mailto:krr at ix.netcom.com] Subject: Re: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion I see a ton of questions posted everywhere, so basically is there more to registering a name? From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 08:13:56 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 08:13:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML Code for Page Breaks when Printing? In-Reply-To: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> Message-ID: <200008231314.GAA27057@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Villano, Paul > > Is it possible to include HTML code (if so, what > is it?) for page breaks > when printing HTML pages? I have pages that it's CSS2 code, and it only works in IE5+ (win, dunno about Mac)... it also only works on block- level elements (the MS docs are incorrect, you can't use it in a <br>)... the rest you can get from the W3C specs on CSS2... so try: <p style="page-break:after|before|[there's another one, you'll have to check the specs]"> foo bar </p> From r937 at interlog.com Wed Aug 23 08:41:45 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Wed Aug 23 08:41:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] css - margin-right property Message-ID: <01c00d07$cd798800$b752059a@default> >ok this should be mega easy for most of you. hi lisa css is easy until you come to the part that you don't know ;o) > I am virtually just beginning learning css. > I have an image in a table. The table is 100% the image right aligned. > In IE the image goes right to the edge of the browser window. > In Netscape it does not. I presume the only way to do this is with css. no, you can do it without css too, but it's always a good idea to try stuff in css first you might even need a mix of css and non-css to make something work >I have made an external style sheet in notepad. > So far it only contains the following: >BODY {margin-right: 0} >Do I have to specify a length such as px to make it work? no, what you have is fine -- at least, it should be >Also have I linked the css file correctly to the page? >I wrote: ><LINK rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="lawton.css"> and put it in the >head section. yes >The page I am working on can be found at www.lawtonasia.com/test > I want the navigation bar to go to the right edge of the page. lisa, i hope you don't mind, but you have a couple other problems with this page that should be fixed you have a horizontal scrollbar at 800x600 because of the way you coded your table cell widths your background gradient jpeg jarringly disrupts your navigation bar at 1024x768 now, to your actual question... as far as i can tell the nav bar is properly right align in the table <tip> always include hspace=0 and vspace=0 for images which have to touch something like a table cell wall or another image </tip> but getting the nav bar to touch the right edge of the page is not really what you want for proof of this outrageous statement, i cite as evidence the h1 that is just over your nav bar <h1 align="right"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#666666">Lawtonasia is a leading provider of specialist financial planning<img src="images/spacer.gif" width="10" height="8"><br> services to expatriates and international investors.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" color="#666666"><img src="images/spacer.gif" width="10" height="1"><br> <img src="images/spacer.gif" width="10" height="1"></font></h1> presumably the 10-pixel shims are intended to get the words *away* from the right browser window, presumably for readability purposes -- and this is A Good Thing (tm) for the same reason, you don't want the words "What's New" in your nav bar to be too close to the edge, either i think the only part that might be bothering you is the little blue gradient bar "behind" the round buttons, and i think this was supposed to blend in with the gradient of the background image, right? you may want to have a look at your page in several different resolutions the answer to your immediate problem would be to make the bar part of the nav bar image transparent but you should really address the background image problem -- you might not need to override browser margins after all... ;o) by the way, in your body tag -- <body leftmargin="0" marginwidth="0" topmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" background="images/bggradiant.jpg" marginheight="0" text="#666666" link="#99CCFF" vlink="#999999" alink="#99CCFF"> you have 5 margin attributes ;o) lisa, i hope i'm not coming across as negative, by just finding things that are wrong with your code making the transition to css is really easy -- once you've done it doing it the first time can be a pain if you want to try setting margins with css, first take those margin attributes out of the body tag, then use the style BODY { margin: 0 } and if it doesn't work, go look up why <tip> for css bug help, see http://richinstyle.com </tip> to make a long story short (i know, it's too late for that) -- patient: "doc, it hurts when i do that" doctor: "don't do that" ;o) From jamie at bayou.com Wed Aug 23 08:42:59 2000 From: jamie at bayou.com (Jamie Madden) Date: Wed Aug 23 08:42:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823083012.00c55780@mail.bayou.com> I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I could ask you evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might get a feel for your organization. I build web sites every day for a living and I'm pretty sure I do fairly competent, easily navigable, web sites but this one has to be perfect (it's mine). And... Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online resume. Just wondering. jamie From sck at biljettpoolen.se Wed Aug 23 09:04:32 2000 From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:04:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5201AA77@SBS> Mine's old, outdated and not terribly sexy, but the info that's on it is probably of some use... http://cookstour.org/cv/ More importantly I can shed some light on whether employers look at online CV's. The answer is sometimes :-) It depends on the job you are going for and the particular employer. What I can say is that if you are going for a job as a web developer of some descriptionb, then having an online CV at least shows that you sit down and work with the medium. Having a personal site, reference sites, an online portfolio, or whatever extra online material shows that you actually get off your butt and practise what you preach (imnsho!). It is extremely unlikely that a prospective employer will come and find you on the web without you having signed up with recruitment services, or mailed out your CV or whatever approach you choose to take, but if you enclose along with your paper CV, or email enquiry, a link to your online CV, they will probably take the time to look at it. Similarly, if you work with multimedia, you should probably see that prospective employers get a showcase CD etc. I hope that helps - and remember to keep your CV better updated than mine if you are actually looking for jobs :-) (It's over a year old, though it helped me win 2 jobs since I've been in Sweden). .steve ---------------------------------- WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com] > Sent: den 23 augusti 2000 15:40 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Online Resume > > > I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I > could ask you > evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might > get a feel for > your organization. I build web sites every day for a living > and I'm pretty > sure I do fairly competent, easily navigable, web sites but > this one has to > be perfect (it's mine). > > And... > Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online > resume. Just wondering. > > jamie > From dcody at oracular.com Wed Aug 23 09:07:57 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:07:57 2000 Subject: FWD: Re: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <39A3DACF.A8D6B28@oracular.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:47:56 -0500 From: Lynn Hoverson <lynn at braveartes.com> Reply-To: lynn at braveartes.com Organization: BraveArtes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] open source development network Ever since I joined evolt.org my email is always full of great info from evolt. I am a budding web designer who would rather be "working with electrons" & web building than anything else. QUESTION: Is it acceptable to evolt to place a link on my web page to evolt.org? Lynn Isaac Forman wrote: > why would we join up??????? > > if every member of evolt (yes, even those that lurk) emailed another web firm > within their home town/city, and suggested that their developers check us out, > we'd be doing alot more for: > > - those developers - increasing their skills > - their audience - getting them to build better sites (more accessible, etc) > - the web as a whole - a more usable, attractive, etc web is a nicer web > > etc > > let me know what you think, From rwhite at edverify.com Wed Aug 23 09:08:33 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:08:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823083012.00c55780@mail.bayou.com> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFGEGIDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> I've had recruiters look at mine, haven't gotten any offers from it though. It is handy to have, though. I had sent my resume to a company and the HR person didn't sent the whole thing to the person doing the phone interview, so I just gave him the URL and we got on with the interview. Mine is more technical since I'm more of a Network Engineer, but here it is: www.gate.net/~ronwhite/resume.htm <blatant plug> and if anyone in the north Atlanta area is looking to hire a Network Engineer/Admin/IIS/WebDev type, or knows of someone who is, please let me know :-) </blatant plug> Ron From RHoenig at giddings.com Wed Aug 23 09:08:43 2000 From: RHoenig at giddings.com (Hoenig, Robert) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:08:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <1D19C5975ACBD211B5E600A0C9E1BCF2C5F894@gilmanex1> Here is my online Resume. http://students.uww.edu/hoenigrk25/resume.htm I'm not sure if anyone looks at it but it's nice to be able to send the URL to a potential employer that needs info on you a.s.a.p. HTH Robert -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:40 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Online Resume I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I could ask you evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might get a feel for your organization. I build web sites every day for a living and I'm pretty sure I do fairly competent, easily navigable, web sites but this one has to be perfect (it's mine). And... Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online resume. Just wondering. jamie --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From edmz at emonterrey.com Wed Aug 23 09:17:09 2000 From: edmz at emonterrey.com (Eduardo Dominguez) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:17:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> Message-ID: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, width and font. Is this possible ?? From Kingorbitao at aol.com Wed Aug 23 09:19:39 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:19:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] Western Union Message-ID: <9f.9cd2b27.26d53783@aol.com> I have a client who wants to pay for his website using Western Union. Anyone done this before? Have comments? Warnings? From jmorehead at alphalincoln.com Wed Aug 23 09:27:46 2000 From: jmorehead at alphalincoln.com (Jason Morehead) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:27:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] Server software for the Mac In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> References: <Pine.A41.4.10.10008230602430.30014-100000@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <a04310100b5c98f047311@[207.91.25.33]> > The more I use Appleshare IP, the more I realize that it sucks as >web server software. Can anyone recommend a good alternative for the Mac >(B&W G3/OS8.5)? > I'm specifically looking for scriptability (MacPerl is fine) and >complete web-logging capabilities. I'm not looking for a powerhouse since >it will only be hosting the front door of a site. A good price range would >be under $250-$1000(US); maybe more if it absolutely kicks ass. TIA we use webstar, which is pretty much the standard for web hosting on the mac. in fact, my last two employers have used webstar for web serving. http://www.starnine.com/webstar/webstar.html there are also many plug-ins available to extend webstar's capabilities. or, you could always convert your mac into a linux box and run apache... i have a feeling that would scream on a G3. ;) jason -- http://www.alphalincoln.com/ alphagraphics of nebraska - web services 201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508 - 402.475.0000 From rwhite at edverify.com Wed Aug 23 09:40:03 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:40:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A3DACF.A8D6B28@oracular.com> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEGJDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Lynn, You are a member of evolt, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to place a link to thesite on your site. Its part of the "spread the word" we've been talking about. Evolt is a democracy in its purest form, all major issues are brought to the group by the admins. They take care to the day to day stuff, but rarely, if ever, make a decision that affects the whole without input from the group. My 2 dinars, Ron Oh and I believe there are some kewl graphics to make links with as well somewhere or another on thesite.... From djc at five2one.org Wed Aug 23 09:44:35 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:44:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> <4.3.2.7.0.20000823080755.00ba3650@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <39A3DA86.E27FAD40@five2one.org> martin burns wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > At 05:08 22/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > >They're trying to make a site (for people like myself and > >others) for a quick 'one-stop-look' at the sites that audience likes. > > Right, so it's a syndication play, yes? We'd be taking a similar > position to Reuters (except that unlike them, we'd have our own > site too) - distribute our content as headlines to other sites. Yes.. I think my use of the term 'partner' was a bit broad :) > Now to a certain extent that's what slashboxen are about (and > Netscape channels etc); this is a step forward. yes > Question: doesn't this compete with a lot of what /. are doing? > With slashboxen, they're trying to aggregate a lot of content > and be that OS vortal. Or is the /. strategy to move away from > that, and tout OSDN as taking that role? dunno :) you'd have to ask someone at VA about that. .I just know what we want to do, and could give the prover > Next question (and I think you've hinted at the answer): > Why are we doing this? Usually there are 3 reasons for > syndicating your content out: > 1) You get paid for it (eg Reuters) *lol* no > 2) You use it to draw a specific audience back to yourself > (eg Freshmeat) nein > 3) You have a duty to get your content out there pro bono > publica, to reach parts of your audience who may not normally > (get the time to) visit your site (eg BBC News) aye. .djc. From erika at seastorm.com Wed Aug 23 09:53:42 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:53:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> References: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> Message-ID: <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> <tip type="HTML test" author="erika"> - When you apply for a job, and they ask you to take an HTML test... 1. you might ask yourself why they can't determine your HTML proficiency based on your portfolio and/or and interview and/or reference checks. 2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your TD's closed. 3. spec? what's a spec? 4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. 5. You are a circus dog. The HTML test is a hoop. How high can you jump? </tip> woof. erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From RLuth at telxon.com Wed Aug 23 09:56:31 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:56:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D729@ushoex1.telxon.com> Hi Jamie, Oooops! ... Apparently I should have taken your tact and asked first ... by comparison mine seems (at least) a tad overblown and ostentatious ... hmmm ... may have to do a rework .... Dang! www.fangsnclaws.com/RLCV/main.html <http://www.fangsnclaws.com/RLCV/main.html> But yes ... I'm looking for a job right now ... and yes ... at least three headhunter types have looked over my on-line resume in the last week. Ron L. -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com] Subject: [thelist] Online Resume I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I could ask you evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might get a feel for And... Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online resume. Just wondering. From deboute at nerdsoul.com Wed Aug 23 09:57:31 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:57:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> References: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000823170617.00da33f0@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 09:12 23/08/00 -0500, you wrote: > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style >to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every ><td> or <tr>. hehe : ) netscape ? well, netscape is a little buggy [ no way ?? ] and you'd better aply your style defs to every tag you want to be affected... it depends, but it does bug-a-lot. From erika at seastorm.com Wed Aug 23 09:58:16 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:58:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Text size In-Reply-To: <OFAD51FC02.BA0C5585-ON80256944.00464B28@chi.nhs.uk> References: <OFAD51FC02.BA0C5585-ON80256944.00464B28@chi.nhs.uk> Message-ID: <v04220800b5c98e31c8b5@[216.176.7.208]> 1. http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=253 "Give the User Control over your Fonts" 2. CSS percentages 3. (my favorite) Don't specify a font size! Unless a user is using IE5 Mac, s/he cannot, to my knowledge, resize either px or pt without turning CSS off. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.) Erika >I am after opinion here about setting font sizes in CSS where the user does >not loose the ability to change the font size if they wish. I need our web >site to be accessible to the poor sighted who may need to enlarge the font >sizes. Is percentage the best to use in this case? Or does using either px >or pt give the user the ability to increase font size. > >I'm also sure that this would be useful for those designers who build sites >on a PC and only check them on a PC. I use mainly a Mac, and the number of >(top) sites I visit where, not only is the text too small to read in the >first place, but I am also unable to change the font size at my desire to >make the text readable. > >Zo? Oughton erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From deboute at fr.clara.net Wed Aug 23 09:58:24 2000 From: deboute at fr.clara.net (deboute benjamin) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:58:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEGJDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> References: <39A3DACF.A8D6B28@oracular.com> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000823170834.00dd0e60@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 10:40 23/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >Oh and I believe there are some kewl graphics to make links with as well >somewhere or another on thesite.... http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=16#banners From djc at five2one.org Wed Aug 23 10:03:23 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:03:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network References: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEGJDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <39A3DEEE.9D910EE@five2one.org> Ron White wrote: > Oh and I believe there are some kewl graphics to make links with as well > somewhere or another on thesite.... aye. http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=16#banners .djc. From erika at seastorm.com Wed Aug 23 10:15:48 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:15:48 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> References: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> Message-ID: <v04220805b5c9983f25c9@[216.176.7.226]> It does tell you in the spec what styles work for what elements. I really recommend familiarizing yourself with the spec, if only because what works/doesn't work in browsers doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what is SUPPOSED to work or what might work in other browsers, and/or in the future. um. cellpadding/cellspacing: I still do it the old fashioned way (table attribute). Netscape doesn't do well with CSS padding. Width: I do that also as a table attribute. Font? try setting a class and see how it works. you can define fonts in the body, in paragraphs, in td's... I tend NOT to apply styles to tables (as opposed to other elements). I don't know if it's technically allowed, but I think I've had better luck applying styles to <P>s <body>, etc. Inheritance doesn't always work right in the browsers. it's trial & error, baby. (or you could look at one of those CSS support charts if you're so inclined...url?) >Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style >to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every ><td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, >width and font. > >Is this possible ?? > erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From cyberminkie at cyberwhirled.com Wed Aug 23 10:20:11 2000 From: cyberminkie at cyberwhirled.com (l a u r a *^* l y n c h) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:20:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823083012.00c55780@mail.bayou.com> Message-ID: <003101c00d15$a5b43960$565edbd1@nerve> I divided mine up for the web, which allowed me to include things not normally found on a resume (like my philosophy), as well as breaking up what could potentially be a very long page: http://www.cyberwhirled.com/laura and then use the resume menu to navigate. You'll see that there's also a printable version available, which is essentially just a plain-jane formatted ol' resume (without the extras). > And... > Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online > resume. Just wondering. Absolutely. Especially considering that emailed resumes often print with weird carriage returns (making them harder to read), it's nice to be able to point them to a version that will print nicely. Of course, I also bring my fancy-shmancy tri-fold brochure version to interviews, but at least they can print a nicer version before that if they want. Last time I made the rounds, probably half of the interviewers had printed that version out (and the majority of those who hadn't had either not printed out the email either or hadn't visited my portfolio at all). HTH, l a u r a *^* l y n c h design doyen @ cyberwhirled http://www.cyberwhirled.com ICQ: 1797450 AIM: cyberminkie From r937 at interlog.com Wed Aug 23 10:20:21 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:20:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) Message-ID: <01c00d15$92f24880$ee58059a@default> > You are a circus dog. funny, it feels like that after they hire you, too but at least circus dogs eat ;o) rudy i haven't done this myself, but <tip> if you're facing an html test, put a template page on your own web site, then in the test, browse to your file, save into c:/temp, and code from there... </tip> From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu Wed Aug 23 10:35:49 2000 From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:35:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] image loading problems with IE5 In-Reply-To: <200008211650.JAA25076@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <39A10C1E.13811.2A399B@localhost> Message-ID: <39A3A8DC.21202.592B97@localhost> At the risk of repeating myself, I'm resending this question in the hopes that it was buried under a misleading Subject Line and/or you didn't know what I was talking about. If you look at http://lib9.library.vanderbilt.edu/ with IE5.0 you may find broken icons on some of the headers such as Catalogs, E-Resources. If you don't see broken icons once you refresh the page those might load properly but other ones won't. Or you can mouse over the images and they will come in. I used Dreamweaver rollover code and am wondering if this is the problem or if it has something to do with the browser---I think I read about some quirk with IE5 not loading images properly but can't find any information about that. Thanks in advance for any help you may have. ---Suellen Suellen Stringer-Hye Jean and Alexander Heard Library Vanderbilt University stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu From sgd at ti3.com Wed Aug 23 10:46:29 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:46:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258B@gate.ti3.com> > And... > Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online > resume. Just wondering. > As an employer that hires people with online skills, a printed resume without an email addy *and* URL gets tossed aside, and I check out the site with scrutiny (looking at source and such). You bet your last peso employers look at them. --Oh, do yourself a favor and invest some time in their website. I've had too many interviewees that have never taken the time to look at our website. "Here's the door, thankyouverymuch." take your time with it, but make it clean. Depending on the job, you might consider multiple flavors, i.e. a http://useit.com flavor and a http://tickertape.net/ flavor, er something.... sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From erika at seastorm.com Wed Aug 23 10:51:35 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:51:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] javascript redirect In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20000823170617.00da33f0@POP3.club-internet.fr> References: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> <4.3.0.20000823170617.00da33f0@POP3.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: <v04220806b5c9a263880d@[216.176.7.226]> I have finally decided to write a page that probably needs a redirect for Netscape. It seems like it would be simple, but I don't know how. I want Netscape users (all of them) to go one place, and everyone else to go some other place. seamlessly. help? erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From jaylard at equilon.com Wed Aug 23 10:51:42 2000 From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James)) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:51:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CB17@mzrmsx02.newcos.com> Eduardo Dominguez wrote: > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style > to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every > <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, > width and font. > > Is this possible ?? In IE4+, yes, this does work. In Netscape 4+ (including Netscape 6 -- so far, at least), this does not work. In my experience, the most reliable way to format elements within a table using a style sheet is to set properties on the <td> element; the <tr> element often works well, too, although it may be best to apply styles to the <tr> only when you want to achieve row-level formatting (e.g., alternating background colors on rows of a spreadsheet). Applying styles to the <td> may well necessitate use of classes, of course. James Aylard jaylard at equilon.com From kathryneo at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 10:52:08 2000 From: kathryneo at earthlink.net (Kathryn Esplin) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:52:08 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) Message-ID: <4120008323155223230@earthlink.net> >Erica wrote: > <tip type="HTML test" author="erika"> > > - When you apply for a job, and they ask you to take an HTML test... > > 1. you might ask yourself why they can't determine your HTML > proficiency based on your portfolio and/or and interview and/or > reference checks. > > 2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they > don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your > TD's closed. > > 3. spec? what's a spec? > > 4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. > > 5. You are a circus dog. The HTML test is a hoop. How high can you jump? > > </tip> > > woof. > > > > > erika at seastorm.com > http://www.seastorm.com > > Thanks, Erica. This is very :) clever. I will remember it next time it comes up. Thanks! Kathryn Esplin-Oleski (on (thelist) but silent) > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! --- Kathryn Esplin --- kathryneo at earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. From r937 at interlog.com Wed Aug 23 10:52:47 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Wed Aug 23 10:52:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. Message-ID: <01c00d1a$240fcd20$ee58059a@default> > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style >to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every ><td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, >width and font. > >Is this possible ?? hi eduardo yes, you can apply one style to all td's in a style sheet like this -- TD { foo: bar } and then you don't have to put the style inline in every td tag so yes, it's possible however, i would leave cellpadding, cellspacing, table and cell widths in their html tags, simply because they are for all intents and purposes bulletproof, and degrade well in non-css browsers as for font, go ahead and do font-family and colours in the style sheet, they work fine however, font size, as you may have heard, is plenty iffy i'm with erika, a really good strategy is not to touch font sizes at all rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From dante at vianet.net.au Wed Aug 23 11:00:51 2000 From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:00:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) References: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> Message-ID: <005601c00d1b$a6d48ec0$fd01a8c0@dante> Think carefully - what are they really testing? If the computer that you're working on crashes more than once during the test... If they tell you that "the spec. that they ask you to work to is obsolete, but try to follow it anyway (N3.0)." While you are working, you keep on getting interrupted by the interviewer "Just seeing how you're going..." The images for the test site are in a format are on the network -somewhere- with different names than on the design docs. Thanks, dante ========================== I N F E R N A L D E S I G N S Multimedia & Internet Marketing URL: www.vianet.net.au/~dante Contact: dante at vianet.net.au ========================== <snip author="erika at seastorm.com"> > - When you apply for a job, and they ask you to take an HTML test... > > 1. you might ask yourself why they can't determine your HTML > proficiency based on your portfolio and/or and interview and/or > reference checks. > > 2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they > don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your > TD's closed. > > 3. spec? what's a spec? > > 4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. > > 5. You are a circus dog. The HTML test is a hoop. How high can you jump? </snip> From madhu at asiacontent.com Wed Aug 23 11:07:47 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:07:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823212254.00b7e700@203.197.60.113> OK, I tried to think of explaining this in the subject line. Couldn't think of anything. Forgive me. The problem: I can dynamically generate stories from a database like so: www.mysite.com/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=4598 But... search engines will usually not index anything that has a parameter in it. Or worse, they'll index it but only return the part before the "?" as the URL. So the above URL would become "www.mysite.com/ShowArticle.asp" which is pretty useless. Some email programs will not show hyperlinks with a "?" in it properly too. What I want is to have URLs like this: www.mysite.com/Articles/4598.asp But... the file should not physically exist as a file, rather I want some way to "intercept" this URL, actually get ShowArticle.asp to display the contents of record no. 4598 and serve it up. One way to do this would be to put this routine in a custom 404 error handler page and have that redirect to the correct page, but I don't want to do that because it mean redirecting between a couple of pages, making things very slow. So, does anyone have an idea of how I could do this? I'm running Win2K and IIS 5.0 Thanks, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From pdronzek at uswest.net Wed Aug 23 11:27:00 2000 From: pdronzek at uswest.net (Pete Dronzek) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:27:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823092117.0259e8b0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 10:30 PM 8/22/2000 +0200, you wrote: >a great adblocker is available on http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html The Junkbusters proxy is a beautiful thing. What I particularly like about it is the amount of granular control you have over it. You can use regular expressions to be both very general or very specific. It's just amazing to see the web not plastered wall-to-wall with banner ads trying to track you. Kind of like getting in a time machine and going back five years to surf... Pete From madhu at asiacontent.com Wed Aug 23 11:30:35 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:30:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Bulletin Board In-Reply-To: <20000823121803.DE9D0A90D3@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823215138.00b9aed0@203.197.60.113> At 05:48 PM 8/23/00, you wrote: >Try the free/trial version of UBB. I run 4 UBBs, the full version, and think >it's the best available. >http://www.ultimatebb.com/home/freebie.shtml But it doesn't have support for threaded discussions. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 11:38:23 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:38:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> References: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> Message-ID: <200008231638.JAA06383@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Eduardo Dominguez" <edmz at emonterrey.com> > > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style > to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every > <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, > width and font. at this point in the browser game, i'd recommend only using a font style, and even then, against a td: td {font-face:...etc.;} you get the gist... From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 11:41:39 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:41:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> References: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> Message-ID: <200008231641.JAA25290@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Erika Meyer <erika at seastorm.com> > > 2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they > don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your > TD's closed. when i hire, i would rather see clean code, closed tags, proper nesting... missing quotes and stuff i can train... OTOH, if they use quotes and such, but their code formatting is bad, i can train that, too... IOW, do what you do, don't cut corners, it's not a speed test... never do less than you are capable... ultimately, if i administered a test and there were no quotes and unclosed TDs, i'd move that person down the list below someone who did close and quote... > 4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. i've already determined that in the portfolio phase... all i want to know is if the person is capable of coding... an HTML test shouldn't tell me anything about whether or not the person can design, it's just code... From jay at weberrific.org Wed Aug 23 11:47:16 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:47:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <200008231647.MAA03317@server5000.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com] > > I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I > could ask you > evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might > get a feel for > your organization. http://www.weberrific.org/work.html > And... > Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online > resume. Just wondering. My guess is that potential *employers* look at your resume, but I have no employees :) I have had headhunters call me from seeing my resume online. So, yes they look. One thing that I haven't bothered to do yet (because I'm not lookin at the moment) is to make sure that I have .rtf and .txt versions of my resume available from my HTML one. - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From rwhite at edverify.com Wed Aug 23 12:40:48 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:40:48 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <200008231647.MAA03317@server5000.net> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFGEHCDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> <snip> is to make sure that I have .rtf and .txt versions of my resume available from my HTML one. </snip> +1 on this, I've got a .doc uploaded as well as the .htm. Ron From ppk at xs4all.nl Wed Aug 23 12:53:31 2000 From: ppk at xs4all.nl (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:53:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] javascript redirect Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000823194142.0080e960@pop.xs4all.nl> >I have finally decided to write a page that probably needs a redirect >for Netscape. > >It seems like it would be simple, but I don't know how. > >I want Netscape users (all of them) to go one place, >and everyone else to go some other place. seamlessly. if (navigator.appName == "Netscape" && navigator.userAgent.indexOf("compatible") == -1) location.href="netscapepage.html" <-- one single line! else location.href = "otherpage.html" ppk From JuliaC at biztro.com Wed Aug 23 12:54:18 2000 From: JuliaC at biztro.com (JuliaC at biztro.com) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:54:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <2A7B801AD802D411BC6400508B6F52340E107C@THOR> Mine is at www.juliasugarbaker.com/resume.htm Julia From lists at icongarden.com Wed Aug 23 12:58:34 2000 From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:58:34 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> References: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> Message-ID: <p05000a01b5c9bf0c4a24@[24.6.48.4]> ><tip type="HTML test" author="erika"> > >- When you apply for a job, and they ask you to take an HTML test... > >1. you might ask yourself why they can't determine your HTML >proficiency based on your portfolio and/or and interview and/or >reference checks. We can. But we don't always know who else worked with you on the work in your portfolio or how you did it. We can look on an HTML test developed in-house and see more of how you work and what you can do in our controlled conditions. > >2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they >don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your >TD's closed. Bad HTML = no job, at least here. We NEED you to know about proper HTML, CSS, and that sort of stuff. If you don't know it, you can't do the quality work we expect. At least here, do the test _well_, not quickly. >3. spec? what's a spec? If you're talking about HTML spec -- 3.2 is good, 4.0.x is better. >4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. Sure we do, if we're hiring you as a designer. We still care even if you're being hired for HTML prowess, it's just not as important/necessary. > >5. You are a circus dog. The HTML test is a hoop. How high can you jump? The HTML test we administer is a test of basic skills we feel are necessary for successful developers. It also helps us understand a little bit about mindset and working processes. It tells us how the prospective employee does things differently (and we like innovative new ways of doing things). ></tip> > >woof. -- icongarden.com Making good ideas grow || http://icongarden.com/ From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 13:00:19 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:00:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFGEHCDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> References: <200008231647.MAA03317@server5000.net> Message-ID: <200008231800.LAA18543@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Ron White" <rwhite at edverify.com> > > is to make sure that I have .rtf and .txt versions of my > resume available from my HTML one. > > +1 on this, I've got a .doc uploaded as well as the .htm. i made an Acrobat doc, so i had a link to a .pdf file, which i felt was much nicer than a .doc, given virus potentiality (new word).... but i also have the full Acrobat version... From bharoche at usa.net Wed Aug 23 13:00:51 2000 From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:00:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] copy program? References: <NDBBIAKAHKFCNLGDMMFOCEGLMDAA.Chris.Danek@cmgisolutions.com> Message-ID: <007501c00d2c$07705ba0$bd95ccd1@desktop> > I'm in the process of doing some ugly copying from machine to machine to > machine, and I'm wondering if there is a program or something that I can > select and queue up files to copy from machine to machine Not sure if this is what you're looking for but I like the PC shareware FileSync which can synchronize and copy files between directories across partitions, and presumably across networks (I wouldn't know; I'm not on one). http://www.fileware.com Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s http://www.OnPointSolutions.com From hdunnigan at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 13:04:43 2000 From: hdunnigan at yahoo.com (Holly Dunagan) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:04:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] examples of online resumes Message-ID: <20000823180455.3211.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> I created an online resume and portfolio last fall when I was facing a layoff. You can see it at ... http://www1.minn.net/~hdunagan/go/ Most of the calls I received were from headhunters who saw my resume on monster.com, but a few found this more private version on their own. My purpose in creating the online resume was to create a sort of "capability presentation" since almost all the work I have done lives behind firewalls. Also, I wanted to emphasize my project management skills over design skills. I referenced the site whenever I applied for a job via the internet. The portfolio turned out to be a very useful tool for landing job interviews and for *preparing* for them. I spent some time thinking about "just what did I accomplish and what was my contribution" in my previous projects. Having those thoughts in writing at the job interview was very helpful. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From lists at icongarden.com Wed Aug 23 13:09:58 2000 From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:09:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] Bulletin Board In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823215138.00b9aed0@203.197.60.113> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823215138.00b9aed0@203.197.60.113> Message-ID: <p05000a02b5c9c15ed5d7@[24.6.48.4]> Threaded discussions are a usability nightmare. Usually you get one message on one page and that means that a) threads tend to wander because the messages aren't contiguous and therefore topic drift is not as obvious; b) you have to click through 20 pages for 20 messages; c) you can't refer to a previous message without going back to the list and finding the message, as opposed to scrolling up the page. Flat boards such as the UBB tend to support single-minded threads, which I like to call 'conversations' that usually stay on topic. This generally avoids whole threads where the topic says "Horse Breeding" and the people are talking about Barbie dolls. Unless you're trying to up that hit count for your advertisers drastically, go with flat. FLat boards tend to be faster, more on topic, and easier to navigate (fewer levels of navigation). >At 05:48 PM 8/23/00, you wrote: >>Try the free/trial version of UBB. I run 4 UBBs, the full version, and think >>it's the best available. >>http://www.ultimatebb.com/home/freebie.shtml > >But it doesn't have support for threaded discussions. > >Regards, > >Madhu > -- icongarden.com Making good ideas grow || http://icongarden.com/ From rwhite at edverify.com Wed Aug 23 13:20:18 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:20:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <200008231800.LAA18543@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFOEHFDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> You would think they prefer that, but most ask for a .doc copy... go figure. Ron From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 13:34:25 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:34:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra> <200008231638.JAA06383@smtp5-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <003201c00d31$cef07e80$0200000a@pavilion> You can use CSS for tables but there is a catch. The catch is that the NN 4.0 browsers have difficulty and "will" make a mess of what you wish to do. The work around for CSS is to use Table, Td, Tr, Th, {..} To apply a style for the entire table. There are several really good places that I frequent for information. comp.infosystems.www.authoring.sylesheets http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ If you can't seem to get a style to work then stop here first before asking so that you can confirm the syntax of your style that way you know for sure what you have works. Also does a nice job of formatting the output. http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/propertyXpropert y.html Gives a listing for all attrubutes that are compatible for IE NN both PC and Mac http://css.nu/pointers/bugs.html All around great place for tips, workarounds, ideas' etc... krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS for tables.. > > From: "Eduardo Dominguez" <edmz at emonterrey.com> > > > > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style > > to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every > > <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, > > width and font. > > at this point in the browser game, i'd recommend only using a font > style, and even then, against a td: > > td {font-face:...etc.;} > > you get the gist... > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From sgd at ti3.com Wed Aug 23 13:48:18 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:48:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258E@gate.ti3.com> (Hi, I'm Scott. I'll be your Devil's Advocate today) > > > 1. you might ask yourself why they can't determine your HTML > > proficiency based on your portfolio and/or and interview and/or > > reference checks. because, as your potential employer, I want to see things that looking at already done work can't show: 1) If you can code by hand 2) How fast you code cleanly 3) If you can write code without flipping through a reference for all your needs > > > > 2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they > > don't care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your > > TD's closed. uh, that's just sloppy and shows you don't care about it in the first place. Work quickly, yes, but work clean. You can probably get a feel for your interviewer for whether or not they'll scrutinize the code. Assume they will. Assume someone will. > > > > 4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. you're actually correct here. an 'HTML test' is just that: HTML. Now, if I asked you to design something, I'd want you to wax poetic on my whiteboard with a marker. > > > > 5. You are a circus dog. The HTML test is a hoop. How > high can you > jump? It's a filter mechanism. Remember that while you may be able to dream in HTML, there are a number of people who make it past the resume/portfolio who can't write code worth a shit, or need the book next to them the whole time. Keep in mind that sometimes you may be asked to present how you'd code a comp without actually writing the code: "Well, I'd break this into two tables here, make that a rollover, and keep that stuff there text images...." In other words (and Rudy did put it much more succinctly --Circus dogs eat--), take every interview seriously. For all you know, your interviewer has been burned by quite a few 'designers' that couldn't code themselves out of a bag, and once you establish that real-time credibility you're off to the races.... just some thoughts sgd -- think safely From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 13:53:14 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:53:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <002201c00d0c$31463ff0$3e01a8c0@em12> Message-ID: <009501c00d34$70004420$0200000a@pavilion> Check the post I made earlier but the one thing you should take note of is that the recommended unit for sizing fonts is the .em unit. This enables the user to size fonts on there systems to comfortable reading level. I will say that I cheated and used .pts on the navigation as you can image 18pt navigation down the left side of the page. krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo Dominguez" <edmz at emonterrey.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 7:12 AM Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style > to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every > <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, > width and font. > > Is this possible ?? > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 13:58:10 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:58:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion References: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D71E@ushoex1.telxon.com> Message-ID: <00b801c00d35$1fded960$0200000a@pavilion> Appreciate the input, I have been reading posts and surfing thru web sites for some time now but this is the first time I have actually wanted register a yourname.com. BY the BY thanx for starting the mess, it was helpful :-) krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luther, Ron" <RLuth at telxon.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 6:11 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion > Hi Kev, > > > My bad for starting this mess, I suppose. > > Nope ... registering a domain name seems to be fairly straightforward and > reasonably painless ... even for relative newcomers like me! :-) .... > Although .... I would DEFINITELY recommend searching through the archives to > see and heed the warnings of George and others here about "reading the fine > print" and making sure you OWN the domain name ... {Some registrars appear > to be a bit sneaky about only 'leasing' the name to you and retaining > ownership for themselves.} > > The problem I ran into was in trying to 'move' the domain from where it was > parked ... to a new host ... I got a little confused working through my > registrar's procedures ... but then again I imagine each registrar has their > own quirks and peculiarities to deal with ..... > > Writing "idiot-proof" procedures isn't an easy thing to do .... [Hell - if > you give 100 people "simple" directions to your house ... you're still gonna > lose a few!] ..... And when you factor in an international audience ... > different backgrounds ... different connotative associations for similar > words and phrases ... and folks at very very different levels of technical > expertise, knowledge, and experience .... Sometimes you're gonna confuse > some folks .... > > ..... the other day it was my turn in the box .... > > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: kevin raleigh [mailto:krr at ix.netcom.com] > Subject: Re: [thelist] The domain name registration > confusion > I see a ton of questions posted everywhere, so basically is > there more to > registering a name? > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From squalid at libertysurf.co.uk Wed Aug 23 14:03:11 2000 From: squalid at libertysurf.co.uk (mr dave) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:03:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] javascript redirect References: <006401c00c77$c3bf2760$253223d4@vectra><4.3.0.20000823170617.00da33f0@POP3.club-internet.fr> <v04220806b5c9a263880d@[216.176.7.226]> Message-ID: <011a01c00d34$eb78d900$77288bd4@kensteve> >From Erika: {> I have finally decided to write a page that probably needs a redirect > for Netscape. > It seems like it would be simple, but I don't know how. > > I want Netscape users (all of them) to go one place, > and everyone else to go some other place. seamlessly. > > help?} <mr dave replies> This would involve checking the users info for what browser they are using, then having those that have netscape to one URL and those that don't to another URL. This is one way to do it: <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"> if ((navigator.appVersion.charAt(0) == "4") ||(navigator.appVersion.charAt(0) == "5")) { if (navigator.appName == "Netscape") browser="netscape"; if (navigator.appName != "Netscape") browser="others"; } if (browser == "netscape") { window.location.href="http://netscapepageurlhere"; } if (browser == "others") { window.location.href="ie.html"; } </script> Hope that this is what you're after. </mr dave replies> -//mr.dave//- From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 14:06:31 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:06:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP database linking References: <20000823103110.28353.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010a01c00d36$4b009ba0$0200000a@pavilion> To: Cayley Vos Title: working ASP and Access I notice in this post that you work with the above software. I am new to this and would like to start working with both ASP and Acess 2k as I have Acess on my personal system. Do you know of any tutorial type books that can give me a start at working in these two environments. I have taken a course that works with just the interface of Access and shows you how to build and link your tables with the Key. Now I would like to move alittle further and try something with ASP and Access. Any ideas would be appreciated. thanx krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "cayley vos" <cvos at yahoo.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 3:31 AM Subject: [thelist] ASP database linking > simple question from a simpleton ASP/Access > programmer: I want to link to the next fields on a > database using 5 at a time. I want to be able to have > a next and previous link at the bottom of the page to > move between results pages that only show 5 fields > each. > > my code > > <a href='lotions.asp?<%=URLArgs("RECORD_INDEX", > +5)%>'>next</a></td> > > offending page > > http://cafesensuale.com/lotions.asp > thanks, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 14:08:06 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:08:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] css - margin-right property References: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAIEIICAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> Message-ID: <011101c00d36$8358bdc0$0200000a@pavilion> BODY {margin-right: 0;} not to be picky but you forgot the semicolon. I had a lot of trouble with the semicolons :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Bartholomew" <lisa at koolfish.com> To: "the list" <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 3:34 AM Subject: [thelist] css - margin-right property > Dear Listees > ok this should be mega easy for most of you. I am virtually just beginning > learning css. I have an image in a table. The table is 100% the image right > aligned. In IE the image goes right to the edge of the browser window. In > Netscape it does not. I presume the only way to do this is with css. > I have made an external style sheet in notepad. So far it only contains the > following: > BODY {margin-right: 0} > Do I have to specify a length such as px to make it work? > > Also have I linked the css file correctly to the page? > I wrote: > <LINK rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="lawton.css"> and put it in the > head section. > > The page I am working on can be found at www.lawtonasia.com/test I want the > navigation bar to go to the right edge of the page. > > Thank you > Lisa. > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From squalid at libertysurf.co.uk Wed Aug 23 14:18:01 2000 From: squalid at libertysurf.co.uk (mr dave) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:18:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] The domain name registration confusion References: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D71E@ushoex1.telxon.com> Message-ID: <014601c00d37$0f78a0e0$77288bd4@kensteve> >From Ron: <snip> > The problem I ran into was in trying to 'move' the domain from where it was > parked ... to a new host ... I got a little confused working through my > registrar's procedures ... but then again I imagine each registrar has their > own quirks and peculiarities to deal with ..... </snip> <mr dave replies> I used www.easily.co.uk and they have given me no problems, switching to another host was simple and done really quickly. They also have an offer at the moment where you get a free .co.uk if you buy a .com address. Don't know how the prices compare to those in the states but its ?35 for a .com or .net and ?15 for a .co.uk hope this wasn't a worthless ramble (that happens to me alot) </mr dave replies> -//mr.dave//- From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 14:35:24 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:35:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <009501c00d34$70004420$0200000a@pavilion> Message-ID: <200008231935.MAA12574@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "kevin raleigh" <krr at ix.netcom.com> > > Check the post I made earlier but the one thing you should take note > of is that the recommended unit for sizing fonts is the .em unit. This > enables the user to size fonts on there systems to comfortable reading > level. i dunno if you've played with 'em' much, but it's been nothing but a hassle for me... i think it should be *the* unit, but after trying to get consistency across mac/pc and nn/ie, it just became too much of a hassle... that's why i made the article about using SSIs to allow users to resize fonts... From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 14:35:35 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:35:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFOEHFDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> References: <200008231800.LAA18543@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <200008231935.MAA10023@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> almost forgot: http://roselli.org/adrian/ i use a portflio, and don't post a resume... this may be because i'm a partner in a company, so having a resume is useless, but having a personal portfolio can help the company... it's out of date, tho... just started the re-vamp this past weekend... From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 15:32:35 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 15:32:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <200008231935.MAA12574@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <015201c00d42$50425160$0200000a@pavilion> I thought the idea was to let the user control the font sizes for reading purposes?? In cases where the text wipes out the effect that is another story.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS for tables.. > > From: "kevin raleigh" <krr at ix.netcom.com> > > > > Check the post I made earlier but the one thing you should take note > > of is that the recommended unit for sizing fonts is the .em unit. This > > enables the user to size fonts on there systems to comfortable reading > > level. > > i dunno if you've played with 'em' much, but it's been nothing but a > hassle for me... i think it should be *the* unit, but after trying to get > consistency across mac/pc and nn/ie, it just became too much of > a hassle... > > that's why i made the article about using SSIs to allow users to > resize fonts... > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 15:57:57 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 15:57:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <015201c00d42$50425160$0200000a@pavilion> Message-ID: <200008232058.NAA18038@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> i am talking about letting readers control fonts for reading purposes... what are you talking about? text-as-nav? > From: "kevin raleigh" <krr at ix.netcom.com> > > I thought the idea was to let the user control the font sizes for > reading purposes?? In cases where the text wipes out the effect that > is another story.. > > > i dunno if you've played with 'em' much, but it's been nothing but a > > hassle for me... i think it should be *the* unit, but after trying > > to get consistency across mac/pc and nn/ie, it just became too much > > of a hassle... > > > > that's why i made the article about using SSIs to allow users to > > resize fonts... From lwkraemer at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 16:17:47 2000 From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (el.kay) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:17:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258E@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <002301c00d47$9c5db580$5ea01c3f@lonnie> Does anyone have a sample of what a typical HTML test might involve? el.kay From javier at msm.cl Wed Aug 23 16:22:08 2000 From: javier at msm.cl (javier) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:22:08 2000 Subject: [thelist] Western Union References: <9f.9cd2b27.26d53783@aol.com> Message-ID: <39A43D4C.D07FB54@msm.cl> Kingorbitao at aol.com wrote: > I have a client who wants to pay for his website using Western Union. Anyone > done this before? Have comments? Warnings? i once transalted a site, and the dude payed me overseas through Western Union, had no problems whatsoever, he sent me half up front, and half upon completion. it just depends if you know the guy, i didn't but everything went ok anyway, i never met him but through e-mail -- -javier- http://mantruc.com http://evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt! From sgd at ti3.com Wed Aug 23 16:51:01 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:51:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258C@gate.ti3.com> oh, I have received some interesting inquiries from what I put up at http://freeagent.com/superdex (I did it as a half-joke because in order to look for someone to hire you have to put your's in the mix) sgd -- think safely > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron White [mailto:rwhite at edverify.com] From sgd at ti3.com Wed Aug 23 16:51:12 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:51:12 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172012590@gate.ti3.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Madhu Menon [mailto:madhu at asiacontent.com] > I can dynamically generate stories from a database like so: > > www.mysite.com/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=4598 > > > What I want is to have URLs like this: > > www.mysite.com/Articles/4598.asp > > But... the file should not physically exist as a file, rather > I want some > way to "intercept" this URL, actually get ShowArticle.asp to > display the > contents of record no. 4598 and serve it up. just reading through your post and thinking off the top of my head (okay, truth be told, its how I respond to 99% of thelist emails ;) ) I'd look into writing an ASAPI dll that sits 'in the line of fire' and reconstructs the url to what you need. It'd be faster performance-wise than the redirections through a 404 page, but it's also some coding you may not be used to. Other than that, I dunno, I'd hafta check it out. Are the stories static? What about pre-processing them (i.e. once a night) and generating all those pages? --You get them indexed, and there's no extra ASP overhead in serving them up .... sgd -- think safely From jmorehead at alphalincoln.com Wed Aug 23 16:56:59 2000 From: jmorehead at alphalincoln.com (Jason Morehead) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:56:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] sending mail to multiple recipients in php Message-ID: <a04310100b5c9f78995b2@[207.91.25.33]> hey all... i'm working on a script that will allow a client to send a message to a mailing list that is pulled out of a database. i've got the script working just fine, though it needs a little tweak here and there. essentially, i pull the e-mails out of a database, put them all into one string, and then stick that string into the "to" field using php's mail() function. however, in the e-mail the recipient gets, all of the e-mail addresses are viewable in the "to:" field. is there some way to hide those e-mail addresses? jason (who knows this should probably go on a php list, but is sadly not signed up to one) <tip type="php" author="jason morehead"> when working with php scripts and include files, make sure you have uploaded all of the current versions of those include files. you'll save yourself plenty of headaches, slaps to the head, and "dohs!". </tip> -- http://www.alphalincoln.com/ alphagraphics of nebraska - web services 201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508 - 402.475.0000 From Tony at IdeaSystems.com Wed Aug 23 17:24:11 2000 From: Tony at IdeaSystems.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Wed Aug 23 17:24:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] sending mail to multiple recipients in php In-Reply-To: <a04310100b5c9f78995b2@[207.91.25.33]> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823152312.025d3578@baratta.com> At 02:56 PM 8/23/2000, you wrote: >hey all... > >i'm working on a script that will allow a client to send a message to a >mailing list that is pulled out of a database. i've got the script >working just fine, though it needs a little tweak here and there. >essentially, i pull the e-mails out of a database, put them all into one >string, and then stick that string into the "to" field using php's mail() >function. however, in the e-mail the recipient gets, all of the e-mail >addresses are viewable in the "to:" field. is there some way to hide >those e-mail addresses? http://www.php.net/manual/function.mail.php I stole this from the above link...... And massaged for your needs. <?php // switch the value of $email to the // persons email address you are sending // this to. $email = "username at myisp.com"; $subject = "Working PHP v4.0b4 mail script"; $body = "Um, looks good from here."; $headers = "From: mymailer at mydomain.com\n"; $headers .= "Reply-to: noreply at mydomain.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n"; mail ($email, $subject, $body, $headers); echo "schweeeeeet.....its workin'"; ?> ---- Anthony Baratta Isys Idea Systems voice 510-452-4554 fax 510-452-4641 From Anthony at Baratta.com Wed Aug 23 17:26:04 2000 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Wed Aug 23 17:26:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] sending mail to multiple recipients in php Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823152712.0258f358@baratta.com> At 02:56 PM 8/23/2000, you wrote: hey all... i'm working on a script that will allow a client to send a message to a mailing list that is pulled out of a database. i've got the script working just fine, though it needs a little tweak here and there. essentially, i pull the e-mails out of a database, put them all into one string, and then stick that string into the "to" field using php's mail() function. however, in the e-mail the recipient gets, all of the e-mail addresses are viewable in the "to:" field. is there some way to hide those e-mail addresses? http://www.php.net/manual/function.mail.php I stole this from the above link...... And massaged for your needs. <?php // switch the value of $email to the // persons email address you are sending // this to. $email = "username at myisp.com"; $subject = "Working PHP v4.0b4 mail script"; $body = "Um, looks good from here."; $headers = "From: mymailer at mydomain.com\n"; $headers .= "Reply-to: noreply at mydomain.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Bcc: username at myisp.com\n"; $headers .= "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n"; mail ($email, $subject, $body, $headers); echo "schweeeeeet.....its workin'"; ?> ---- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 18:03:44 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:03:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <200008232058.NAA18038@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <002a01c00d57$6d7d06c0$0200000a@pavilion> No the same as you, text for reading Spent major hours pouring thru CSS1, newsgroups, several books, etc To get an idea of the best approaches for web design when working with CSS. Most of the information I found all said to use the .em unit "when font control is needed" to enable the user to make adjustments according to there own needs. Of course sense we ultimately work for someone else I guess they make the final decision. krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS for tables.. > > i am talking about letting readers control fonts for reading > purposes... what are you talking about? text-as-nav? > > > From: "kevin raleigh" <krr at ix.netcom.com> > > > > I thought the idea was to let the user control the font sizes for > > reading purposes?? In cases where the text wipes out the effect that > > is another story.. > > > > > i dunno if you've played with 'em' much, but it's been nothing but a > > > hassle for me... i think it should be *the* unit, but after trying > > > to get consistency across mac/pc and nn/ie, it just became too much > > > of a hassle... > > > > > > that's why i made the article about using SSIs to allow users to > > > resize fonts... > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From pbi at dircon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 18:08:36 2000 From: pbi at dircon.co.uk (Paul Bradforth) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:08:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] Text size In-Reply-To: <v04220800b5c98e31c8b5@[216.176.7.208]> Message-ID: <200008232308.AAA81525@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> On 23/8/00 at 7:24 am, erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) wrote: > Unless a user is using IE5 Mac, s/he cannot, to my knowledge, resize > either px or pt without turning CSS off. (Someone will correct me if > I'm wrong.) That's right, although I thought it was just pixels that you couldn't resize? best wishes, Paul http://www.paulbradforth.com http://pbi.freelancers.net XXII Group http://www.xxii.com From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Wed Aug 23 18:16:51 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:16:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] Text size Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D396@PIBCRMEXH001> what we have done is use percentage for the font sizes - therefore they are scalable and will depend on what they have as their default font size on their puter (system size in IE and the custom settings in NN). HTH Schaz > Hello all > > I am after opinion here about setting font sizes in CSS where the user > does > not loose the ability to change the font size if they wish. I need our > web > site to be accessible to the poor sighted who may need to enlarge the font > sizes. Is percentage the best to use in this case? Or does using either > px > or pt give the user the ability to increase font size. > > I'm also sure that this would be useful for those designers who build > sites > on a PC and only check them on a PC. I use mainly a Mac, and the number > of > (top) sites I visit where, not only is the text too small to read in the > first place, but I am also unable to change the font size at my desire to > make the text readable. > From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 18:47:13 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:47:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. In-Reply-To: <002a01c00d57$6d7d06c0$0200000a@pavilion> Message-ID: <200008232347.QAA08028@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: kevin raleigh > > Most of the information I found all said to use > the .em unit "when font > control is needed" to enable the user to make > adjustments according to there > own needs. yep, that's what i've found, too... but after trying it out a few times, i've run into major problems... i agree it's probably the best unit from an ideal standpoint, but like i mentioned before, the variation between platforms was too great, and the limited control some browsers give you to resize was insufficient... marlene and martin have both seen examples of some stuff i did using 'em' that looked great on every PC for 5 miles, but every Mac in the same range displayed *small* text (2-5px)... so, if i can, i offer that font control thingie i mentioned before (http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=253), or i use %, or even any other relative sizing unit i can... interestingly, a few people here are proponents of leaving sizes out and letting the user's defaults establish the size... > Of course sense we ultimately work for someone > else I guess they make the final decision. erm, not in my case... most of my clients back off, or would rather not take the time for me to explain what the hell an 'em' is, let alone CSS... From krr at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 23 19:20:30 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Wed Aug 23 19:20:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <200008232347.QAA08028@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004101c00d62$262fd940$0200000a@pavilion> The info on the mac was never to size anything below the .75em size for the reason you just stated. I can't argue any of this as I am just starting out. But the research I did, points to what we have discussed and as for the mac it was pointed out that when using a unit smaller than .75em that what you describe would be the end result. As for how your client react, I get the same thing from all the people I talk web design to. They call it tech talk... :) krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS for tables.. > > From: kevin raleigh > > > > Most of the information I found all said to use > > the .em unit "when font > > control is needed" to enable the user to make > > adjustments according to there > > own needs. > > yep, that's what i've found, too... > > but after trying it out a few times, i've run into major problems... i agree it's probably the best > unit from an ideal standpoint, but like i mentioned before, the variation between platforms was > too great, and the limited control some browsers give you to resize was insufficient... marlene > and martin have both seen examples of some stuff i did using 'em' that looked great on every > PC for 5 miles, but every Mac in the same range displayed *small* text (2-5px)... > > so, if i can, i offer that font control thingie i mentioned before > (http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=253), or i use %, or even any other relative sizing unit i > can... > > interestingly, a few people here are proponents of leaving sizes out and letting the user's > defaults establish the size... > > > Of course sense we ultimately work for someone > > else I guess they make the final decision. > > erm, not in my case... most of my clients back off, or would rather not take the time for me to > explain what the hell an 'em' is, let alone CSS... > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From erika at seastorm.com Wed Aug 23 19:49:02 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 23 19:49:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <002301c00d47$9c5db580$5ea01c3f@lonnie> References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258E@gate.ti3.com> <002301c00d47$9c5db580$5ea01c3f@lonnie> Message-ID: <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> >never do less than you are capable... aardvark, you are absolutely right. If I were on the other end of the continent, I'd be knocking on your door! This was probably not such a great tip. Maybe it was so bad I now owe two tips. However, I have taken three HTML tests in the past four days, each radically different, each with it's own strengths & weaknesses. I wrote this tip after feeling used and condescended to by a representative of a certain international web temp group, their test, and their evaluation of my capabilities based on this test. It has been an adventure, and I think it's something I'm better off putting into an Evoltish article. (is an article worth two tips?) Yes, it is important to pay bills, but for what was being asked of me, I'd honestly rather wait tables than code HTML. With tips (the monetary kind) the pay is probably comparable, and the work far more interesting and fun. I think there comes a time when you are in job seeking mode you have to ask: is having a brain, thoughts, and ideas an asset or a liability in this job? If it's a liability, perhaps I'd be happier (and make more money) elsewhere. I'll save the rest for later... BTW: apparently there isn't any such thing as a 'typical' HTML test. Erika >Does anyone have a sample of what a typical HTML test might involve? > >el.kay erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From peg at anxietygirl.com Wed Aug 23 19:49:10 2000 From: peg at anxietygirl.com (Peggy Daniels) Date: Wed Aug 23 19:49:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network Message-ID: <20000824004927.23137.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://lists.evolt.org/pipermail/thelist/attachments/20000823/f369843b/attachment.txt> From eric at schwa.com Wed Aug 23 20:04:56 2000 From: eric at schwa.com (Eric Costello) Date: Wed Aug 23 20:04:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172012590@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <NEELIJPJGLONEACJAECIGEAHEMAA.eric@schwa.com> >I'd look into writing an ASAPI dll I think Scott meant to type "ISAPI" dll. Eric Eric Costello eric at schwa.com http://glish.com From isaac at triplezero.com.au Wed Aug 23 20:14:27 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Wed Aug 23 20:14:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE0482@SERVER04> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEPDDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > I'd be extremely interested in reading this.. I've experimented with the > idea, but haven't been able to set up a kind of "catch-all" for domains.. > I've only been able to do it on a server-by-server basis. > > Anyone? Isaac? sorry - late on the thread. before doing this, note that netscape will fuck up alot if you do this and then browse sites that have content from these servers in ilayers or whatever they are. much like netscape's problem with missing stylesheets (instead of just displaying the page without the css, it shows an overall 404... crap, eh?), it has similar problems with ilayers. to solve this, turn off javascript/css. IE survives ok and just shows broken images (ahhh, beautiful!) wired.com really screws up netscape. if you go there with js/css switched off, it'll often go into an endless loop reloading an article - i don't think that their detection scripts were banking on users switching off images, java, css, javascript, and then blocking their ad servers... ;) anyway, look in winnt/system32/drivers/etc/ for a file called "Hosts" (this works under NT - haven't tried it under win9x/2k) then, paste something like this in there (this is part of my Hosts file; there may be some duplicates; add other ad servers as they annoy you ;)): 127.0.0.1 images.slashdot.org 127.0.0.1 maximumpcads.snv.futurenet.com 127.0.0.1 www.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.preferances.com 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.com 127.0.0.1 ads.web.aol.com 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.preferences.com 127.0.0.1 ad.washingtonpost.com 127.0.0.1 adbot.theonion.com 127.0.0.1 adpick.switchboard.com 127.0.0.1 ads.doubleclick.com 127.0.0.1 ads.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ads.i33.com 127.0.0.1 ad.au.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ads.infospace.com 127.0.0.1 ads.msn.com 127.0.0.1 ln.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ln.doubleclick.com 127.0.0.1 *.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 *.doubleclick.com 127.0.0.1 ads.switchboard.com 127.0.0.1 ads.washingtonpost.com 127.0.0.1 adforce.imgis.com 127.0.0.1 ads.enliven.com 127.0.0.1 Ogilvy.ngadcenter.net 127.0.0.1 oz.valueclick.com 127.0.0.1 doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ads.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad2.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad3.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad4.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad5.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad6.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad7.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad8.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad9.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad10.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad11.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad12.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad13.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad14.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad15.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad16.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad17.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad18.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad19.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad20.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.ch.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.infoseek.com 127.0.0.1 ad.linkexchange.com 127.0.0.1 banner.linkexchange.com 127.0.0.1 adcount.hollywood.com 127.0.0.1 ads*.focalink.com 127.0.0.1 ads.imdb.com 127.0.0.1 www.ad-up.com 127.0.0.1 bannerswap.com 127.0.0.1 commonwealth.riddler.com 127.0.0.1 globaltrack.com 127.0.0.1 globaltrak.net 127.0.0.1 nrsite.com 127.0.0.1 www.nrsite.com 127.0.0.1 ad-up.com 127.0.0.1 ad.adsmart.net 127.0.0.1 ad.atlas.cz 127.0.0.1 ad.blm.net 127.0.0.1 ad.dogpile.com 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad.infoseek.com 127.0.0.1 ad.linkexchange.com 127.0.0.1 ad.net-service.de 127.0.0.1 ad.preferences.com 127.0.0.1 ad.vol.at 127.0.0.1 adbot.com 127.0.0.1 adbot.theonion.com 127.0.0.1 adbureau.net 127.0.0.1 adcount.hollywood.com 127.0.0.1 add.yaho.com 127.0.0.1 adex3.flycast.com 127.0.0.1 adforce.adtech.de 127.0.0.1 adforce.imgis.com 127.0.0.1 adimage.blm.net 127.0.0.1 adlink.deh.de 127.0.0.1 ads.criticalmass.com 127.0.0.1 ads.csi.emcweb.com 127.0.0.1 ads.filez.com 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 ads.i33.com 127.0.0.1 ads.i33.com 127.0.0.1 ads.imagine-inc.com 127.0.0.1 ads.imdb.com 127.0.0.1 ads.infospace.com 127.0.0.1 ads.jwtt3.com 127.0.0.1 ads.lycos.com 127.0.0.1 ads.mirrormedia.co.uk 127.0.0.1 ads.msn.com 127.0.0.1 ads.narrowline.com 127.0.0.1 ads.newcitynet.com 127.0.0.1 ads.realcities.com 127.0.0.1 ads.realmedia.com 127.0.0.1 ads.smartclicks.com 127.0.0.1 ads.switchboard.com 127.0.0.1 ads.tripod.com 127.0.0.1 ads.usatoday.com 127.0.0.1 ads.washingtonpost.com 127.0.0.1 ads.web.aol.com 127.0.0.1 ads.web.de 127.0.0.1 ads.web21.com 127.0.0.1 adserv.newcentury.net 127.0.0.1 adservant.guj.de 127.0.0.1 adservant.mediapoint.de 127.0.0.1 adserver-espnet.sportszone.com 127.0.0.1 advert.heise.de 127.0.0.1 banners.internetextra.com 127.0.0.1 bannerswap.com 127.0.0.1 customad.cnn.com 127.0.0.1 dino.mainz.ibm.de 127.0.0.1 ganges.imagine-inc.com 127.0.0.1 globaltrack.com 127.0.0.1 globaltrak.net enjoy, isaac ps, then go to wired.com or something, and check out all the 404's in netscape... nice, huh? From lists at icongarden.com Wed Aug 23 20:33:07 2000 From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser) Date: Wed Aug 23 20:33:07 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258E@gate.ti3.com> <002301c00d47$9c5db580$5ea01c3f@lonnie> <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> Message-ID: <p05000a01b5ca28ea2a0b@[24.6.48.4]> Erika, I sorta figured you'd been treated to some lousy HTML tests. I'm sorry that happened to you. Here we try to make them somewhat representative of what we're looking for, and we do indeed look for a lot of things these ones seemed not to. I think the web design agency world is stratifying again. There are the agencies, like the one I work for, who are pushing toward HTML4, CSS, DOM, XHTML, XML, and the emerging technologies that will in the end make our lives easier, even if the transition is difficult, and there are the agencies that are increasingly hiring people who know how to use a WYSIWYG but don't understand the basic concepts of the underlying code. You see, I use Dreamweaver a lot, and I might go back to Golive now that 5 is out. However, I spent since 1994 coding by hand and that taught me a lot about how HTML comes together and works that a lot of people (not all :) who use WYSIWYG never learn. I suppose the number of us who spent the past six years studying HTML, design concepts, usability, branding, promotion and a slew of other technologies, we who are jacks-of-all-trades, are declining in favour of specialisation. I don't know where you interviewed, and I'm sorry they gave you lousy tests. I'm excited to be doing what I'm doing where I work: pushing our standards away from 3.2 and toward 4.0.x and CSS, etc. I wish the browsermakers would support these standards too. Since I'm the only "expert" in HTML at our location - we have two designers, one who is pretty good, another apprentice-level and a project manager who is moving into development - I imagine that we would probably have slipped into 3.2 mode. We're not, however, and I'm proud of that. Heh. Anyhow, all of this is meant to say: Don't lose hope. There are those of us out here who are proud of our craft and want to keep pushing it forward. If you're ever in Atlanta, look up Renaissance Interactive (www.arcadus.com, for the website I helped build, and which is more centered on our location - it's who we were before the merger) and apply! Oh, and that goes for anyone else here in Atlanta. Please feel free to apply and let them know you heard about RI from me :) Jake Stetser -- icongarden.com Making good ideas grow || http://icongarden.com/ From Kingorbitao at aol.com Wed Aug 23 20:41:53 2000 From: Kingorbitao at aol.com (Kingorbitao at aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 23 20:41:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] Western Union Message-ID: <fb.a4e078d.26d5d76b@aol.com> In a message dated 8/23/00 4:25:35 PM Central Daylight Time, javier at msm.cl writes: << i once transalted a site, and the dude payed me overseas through Western Union, had no problems whatsoever, he sent me half up front, and half upon completion. it just depends if you know the guy, i didn't but everything went ok anyway, i never met him but through e-mail >> Wow, that sounds strangely like my situation, 'cept so far it hasn't worked out well. He says he's sent the payment, but I haven't received any letter or telegram or whatever Western Union notifies you with nowadays. So this morning I sent the gentleman an e-mail notifiying him I've suspended work on his project. From jeff at c4webdesign.com Wed Aug 23 21:00:15 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Wed Aug 23 21:00:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] Western Union References: <fb.a4e078d.26d5d76b@aol.com> Message-ID: <0de301c00d6e$a12b3160$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> kingorbitao (would prefer to address you by your first name), :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: <Kingorbitao at aol.com> : : He says he's sent the payment, but I haven't received any : letter or telegram or whatever Western Union notifies you : with nowadays. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the few times i've dealt with western union i've found that they don't notify you that the money has been delivered. instead, you have to call them to find out if it's shown up or not. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : So this morning I sent the gentleman an e-mail notifiying : him I've suspended work on his project. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ you might wanna give your local western union office a ring asap to find out if it's indeed been sent. if it has, i'd jump on an apology email right away. good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com Wed Aug 23 21:11:28 2000 From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft) Date: Wed Aug 23 21:11:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] CGI::get? Message-ID: <39A48513.9FE1E812@13monkeys.com> Hello fellow 'volters, I remember vaguely a reference to a perl function in the CGI.pm module that you can pass it a url and it will return the contents of that page in a string. Something like $text = CGI::get("http://www.evolt.org"); I searched the archive to no avail(although it may have been mentioned on that other list). Anyone vaguely know what I'm talking about? TIA jeremy ashcraft web dev/loser www.webhack.com From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 22:26:10 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:26:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] browser chart updated at Webmonkey Message-ID: <200008240326.UAA16906@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Webmonkey has updated its handy-dandy browser chart: http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/reference/browser_chart/?tw=eg20000823 they've got more browsers and features they're testing: - java, frames, tables, plug-ins, font size, font color, javascript, stylesheets, gif89, dhtml, I-Frames, Table color, XML - NN, IE, AOL, Mosaic, Opera, Lynx, Cyberdog, iCab, Mozilla, Amaya, Arena, WebTV, OmniWeb, Web Explorer - win, mac, linux, unix, tv, nextstep, os/2 or, just get 'em on your own and test your sites yourself by hitting http://browsers.evolt.org/... after all, where do you think they got all those browsers to test? From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Wed Aug 23 22:29:41 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:29:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! javascript problem Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D3A0@PIBCRMEXH001> I've got a drop down box and a "go" button next to it and I want users to be able to highlight something in the drop-down box and then hit the "go" button to go to the page (see script below), but I'm getting an error about the redirect options not being valid. Could some1 please help me with this!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks heaps Schaz <CODE SNIP> <select name="Redirect" class="selectNav"> <option selected>Browse by Subject</option> <option value="/">Animals</option> <option value="/">Broad-acre field crops</option> <option value="/business/">Business & economics</option> <option value="/">Community issues</option> <option value="/">Environmental management</option> <option value="/">Fisheries, aquaculture & seafood</option> <option value="/">Food technology</option> <option value="/">Forestry, timber & wood</option> <option value="/">Horticulture & fresh produce</option> <option value="/">Pastures</option> <option value="/">Pest & disease control</option> <option value="/">Science & technology</option> </select> <A HREF="#" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore();MM_displayStatusMsg(' ');return document.MM_returnValue" onMouseOver="MM_displayStatusMsg('displayMessage');MM_swapImage('document.ic on_r2_c6','document.icon_r2_c6','/images/common/icon_r2_c6_F2.gif','#9480866 65618');return document.MM_returnValue" onClick="location.href=document.forms[0].Redirect.options[document.forms[0]. Redirect.selectIndex].value" target="_top"><IMG SRC="images/common/icon_r2_c6.gif" NAME="icon_r2_c6" WIDTH="16" HEIGHT="16" BORDER="0" ALT="Go" ALIGN="ABSBOTTOM" VSPACE="2"></A> </CODE SNIP> From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 22:43:48 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:43:48 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> Message-ID: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Erika Meyer > > aardvark, you are absolutely right. If I were on > the other end of > the continent, I'd be knocking on your door! lemme know when you're coming by... > I wrote this tip after feeling used and > condescended to by a > representative of a certain international web > temp group, their test, > and their evaluation of my capabilities based on > this test. i got that impression, which is why i really didn't force the issue (i don't think i did...)... what might be a better tip is to say that for those of us who care about our code, taking an HTML test and seeing the response may tell you more about the employer than it will tell them about you... if some yokel hands you an HTML test and you demonstrate beautiful and compliant code, and said yokel never notices (maybe asks where the 'naturalsizeflag' attribute is in the image tag -- this is from a real experience), then most likely you won't be happy there... if you can't find someone who appreciates code that validates, is syntactically correct, well-formed, structured, accessible, etc., all from the top of your head (assuming you do all this or some sub-set), then you're probably better off starting your own shindig (what i did)... ultimately, i decided that enjoying my work was more important than a fat salary... some people i know don't agree, but that's cuz they heard some of my offers... so, a good job and ramen noodles is all you really need... ...and then there was the time i went looking for a block of unpasteurized English stilton... never did get the curd out of the keyboard... From gsd at mac.com Wed Aug 23 22:45:02 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:45:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEPDDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <B5CAC985.14ABD%gsd@mac.com> how do i do this on a mac? Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ There are only two means by which men can deal with one another: guns or logic. Force or persuasion. Those who know that they cannot win by means of logic, have always resorted to guns. --Ayn Rand > anyway, look in winnt/system32/drivers/etc/ for a file called "Hosts" > > (this works under NT - haven't tried it under win9x/2k) > > then, paste something like this in there (this is part of my Hosts file; there > may be some duplicates; add other ad servers as they annoy you ;)): <snip> From r937 at interlog.com Wed Aug 23 22:56:20 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:56:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! javascript problem Message-ID: <01c00d7f$58681e00$cd57059a@default> hi schaz you almost got it you have (with line breaks inserted to make it more readable in email) onClick = "location.href=document.forms[0].Redirect.options[ document.forms[0].Redirect.selectIndex].value" but instead of selectIndex it should be selectedIndex i don't understand why you have most of the option values pointing to "/" but i assume you'll be changing them after you get it working... rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From Matthew.Walker at cdc.org.nz Wed Aug 23 22:57:13 2000 From: Matthew.Walker at cdc.org.nz (Walker, Matthew) Date: Wed Aug 23 22:57:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! javascript problem Message-ID: <4123AAB729E3D111A9180000F81EACF9086EF988@arwen.ccc.govt.nz> > > I've got a drop down box and a "go" button next to it and I > want users to be > able to highlight something in the drop-down box and then hit the "go" > button to go to the page (see script below), but I'm getting > an error about > the redirect options not being valid. I think you want .selectedIndex (add the "ed"!) Wouldn't it be good if life were always so simple? Regards, Matthew Walker From james at designframe.com Wed Aug 23 23:04:50 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:04:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <B5CAC985.14ABD%gsd@mac.com> Message-ID: <B5CA16FB.16724%james@designframe.com> on 8/23/00 11:45 PM, George Donnelly at gsd at mac.com wrote: > how do i do this on a mac? Assuming you are using a later OS (8.5 or higher). just puts these in a text file, open your TCP/IP control panel, click on the "select hosts file" button and choose your text file. (You only get the "select hosts file" button when the user mode is set to advanced (set it in the edit menu)) You'll need to assign IP address to them though admaximise.com A 192.168.0.0 admonitor.com A 192.168.0.0 bfast.com A 192.168.0.0 HTH (didn't it it - but it *should* work) James. From jeff at c4webdesign.com Wed Aug 23 23:11:37 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:11:37 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows References: <20000821140904.DEE81A902F@lists.evolt.org> <39A2BB6A.E2E39E74@nouveauxvisages.com> Message-ID: <0ed401c00d80$fa9ad540$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> colleen, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Colleen McGunnigle <info at nouveauxvisages.com> : : Is there a way to set a pop-up window to be a specific : width horizontally but take up the entire available screen : area vertically? (Like the concept of setting a fixed width : with a 100% height setting) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the short answer is yes, but. lemme explain why . . . you can get the user's full screen size, both height and width, but that doesn't take into account some of the things on the screen like toolbars, startmenu, etc. even then, the screen size is only available to v4+ browsers. using screen.availHeight and screen.availWidth you can get more accurate numbers as to the dimensions of the available screen. however, as you'll find out by reading the rest of this, this isn't a stellar solution. assuming that there aren't any toolbars, startmenu, etc visible on the screen, just replace the pixel perfect height setting with the reference to the screen dimensions. kinda like this: wURL = 'http://www.evolt.org/'; wName = 'newWin'; winWidth = 100; winHeight = screen.availHeight; wFeatures = 'width=' + winWidth + ',height=' + winHeight + ',top=0,left=0'; myWin = window.open(wURL,wName,wFeatures) (all of the below is from testing with ie5/win98 except where i mention actually using nn4.08) the trouble with this, that i've found, is that the available height isn't always reported correctly. for example, i run a resolution of 1280x1024 with all toolbars, startmenu, etc. set to auto-hide. theoretically, i should have just about every one of those pixels available to use. the weird thing is that when the window opens and i get it's size, it reports itself as being 1053 pixels tall - not exactly what i had in mind. (since setting the quicklaunch bar and startmenu back to auto-hide, ie5 now reports the available height and window height correctly as 1024. no clue why it wasn't doing that before. i gave it a couple of tries with the quicklaunch bar set to auto-hide and my startmenu 2 rows tall and it wasn't accurately reporting the available height resulting in a window that was either the correct size or too tall.) now, when i try it with my startmenu set to not auto-hide, it correctly sizes itself to take up every last pixel of the screen from top to bottom and accurately reports it's height as 996 pixels. i also happen to run a number of quicklaunch bars set to auto-hide at the top of my screen. setting that to not auto-hide and it again performs correctly, setting itself to occupy the only the available height, in this case 966 pixels. however, we've run into a problem. since it makes sense that a screen height window should be positioned in such a way as to make it completely viewable, it stands to reason that we'd wanna move it to top 0 and left 0. however, with my non-auto-hidden quicklaunch bars at the top, the title bar of the window is now completely hidden (making it almost impossible to close) by the quicklaunch bar (which is set to always on top, btw) and there is a gap the height of the quicklaunch bar between the bottom of my window and the top of the startmenu. "so just grab the full height, subtract the available height from that and divide by two to find out how tall each bar is. then, instead of setting top to 0, just set it to the height of the bar", you say confidently. the problem is that we can't safely assume (nor can we determine with any certainty) where those menus are placed on the screen. maybe i don't have any quicklaunch bars on my screen. maybe instead i have resized my startmenu to be 2 rows tall. now, setting top to 0 would work just fine (again, assuming the startmenu is at the bottom). what happens if i'm one of those users that prefers to have my startmenu at the top, or one side or the other? there's just no way of telling what the user's setup is beyond just the basic dimensions. just for kicks, i decided to fire up the cranky old bitch, netscape 4.08, to see what happens in this browser. my startmenu and quicklaunch bars are still set to non-auto-hidden. the window opens, i can't see the top or the bottom of the window cause it's not getting accurate dimensions and opening the window much to tall. this is due to a quirk in nn4 that causes it to open the window so that the inner dimensions match the height and width you specify, instead of the outside of the window like ie4+. however, with some creative browser sniffing and calculations you could get around this. i guess what i'm trying to say is that yes, you can do what you want to do, but considering all the possibilities like startmenu height/visibility/location, quicklaunch height/visibility/location, pay-to-surf program banner height/visibility/location, etc. there's no guarantee that what you're trying to do will work the way you intended. personally, i would recommend rethinking your goals and finding another approach. the one you're considering is too unreliable. good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From dholmberg at medialogic.ca Wed Aug 23 23:15:42 2000 From: dholmberg at medialogic.ca (Dwayne Holmberg) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:15:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] CGI::get? In-Reply-To: <39A48513.9FE1E812@13monkeys.com> References: <39A48513.9FE1E812@13monkeys.com> Message-ID: <14756.41132.515760.56530@edtn008597.hs.telusplanet.net> Jeremy Ashcraft writes: > I remember vaguely a reference to a perl function in the CGI.pm module > that you can pass it a url and it will return the contents of that page > in a string. Something like > > $text = CGI::get("http://www.evolt.org"); i don't recall this in CGI.pm offhand, but you might be thinking of LWP::UserAgent #!/usr/bin/perl use LWP::UserAgent; my $ua = new LWP::UserAgent('bob/0.02', 'wowbobwow at blacklodge.com'); my $request = new HTTP::Request('GET', $url); # inheritted by LWP::UserAgent my $response = $ua->request($request); my $content = $response->content(); __END__ on vacation and mixing fine martinis, so please check this against the docs. - dwayne From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 23:34:08 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:34:08 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows In-Reply-To: <0ed401c00d80$fa9ad540$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <200008240434.VAA18628@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Jeff > > : Is there a way to set a pop-up window to be a specific > : width horizontally but take up the entire available screen > : area vertically? (Like the concept of setting a fixed width > : with a 100% height setting) > > the short answer is yes, but. > > lemme explain why . . . wow... i don't think i could have been any more thorough with a week's research time... but to bolster jeff's point(s): Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=2295 Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part II http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=2297 i mention these because you can download the logs i made tracking users' screen res and window sizes, as well as see the JS i used to get the values... the numbers alone may prove useful... after all, at what point is 100% of the height or width so much that your design is way too small... or so little that your design doesn't fit? and jeff, why not add your commentary to my article as a comment so that people are aware of the caveats to my methodology for capturing that data... your comments are too useful to keep just here... From madhu at asiacontent.com Wed Aug 23 23:53:42 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:53:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question In-Reply-To: <20000824002031.6D632A900F@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000824101209.00b81970@203.197.60.113> At 05:50 AM 8/24/00, you wrote: >Are the stories static? What about pre-processing them (i.e. once a night) >and generating all those pages? --You get them indexed, and there's no extra >ASP overhead in serving them up .... Yeah, the stories are mostly static. And the way I do it now is to do exactly what you've described - combining the story in the database with the template and batch processing them. The problem is when you have a large number of pages and you want to tweak a template a little for either design changes or to accommodate special advertising requirements. Then generating 500 pages in a section all over again is the pain I'd like to avoid. BTW, a product called XCache promises to significantly reduce the time it takes to dynamically serve up pages. Have you used it or heard good/bad things about it? Thanks, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From lisa at koolfish.com Wed Aug 23 23:55:03 2000 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:55:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: online resume Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAIEIOCAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> I have an online c.v. again it is out dated. I built it when I was looking for my first job. It helped to get me my first job. Having looked at a lot of the examples sent to the list I wonder if I should have a more plainer version. I don't think it would print out very well. But at the time it did the job of getting my foot in the door. All recruiters asked if I had anything on line. They were junior jobs although I am no junior :) so maybe this was why it went down well at the interviews. I use it now to show to people who are interested in freelance work, but it definitely needs an update, needs validating.........but you know what it is like your site is always the last to get done. http://www.koolfish.com From lisa at koolfish.com Wed Aug 23 23:55:14 2000 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:55:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] re:css - margin-right property Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAKEIOCAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> "if you want to try setting margins with css, first take those margin attributes out of the body tag, then use the style" BODY { margin: 0 } Rudy does a CSS linked style sheet not overide any html? I am working on your suggestions, thanks a lot. Different time zones means it seems to take me ages to reply to you all :) "lisa, i hope i'm not coming across as negative, by just finding things that are wrong with your code" Not at all, it is all extremely useful and constructive, hell how else will i learn if no one tells you whats wrong! Lisa From jeff at c4webdesign.com Wed Aug 23 23:56:29 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Wed Aug 23 23:56:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Sizing pop-up windows References: <200008240434.VAA18628@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <104a01c00d87$3e725440$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> aardvark, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: aardvark <roselli at earthlink.net> : : wow... i don't think i could have been any more : thorough with a week's research time... :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ not bad for about 30 minute's of playing around, eh? i also thought i was pretty restrained considering it's so f*cking hot sweat is pouring off my forehead (and it's like quarter to 10pm, ugh). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : at what point is 100% of the height or width so : much that your design is way too small... or so : little that your design doesn't fit? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ another point i thought of but didn't mention :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : and jeff, why not add your commentary to my article : as a comment so that people are aware of the : caveats to my methodology for capturing that data... : your comments are too useful to keep just here... :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ first, which article? 1 or 2? second, none of the methods used to open a window to 100% of the available height of the screen (screen.availHeight) were used in your articles. i know what i posted here is useful info and it's loosely related to your articles, but i'm not exactly sure what the tie-in is beyond the fact that we're both talking about resolutions. give me some hints or direction and i'll see what i can do though. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From framar at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 00:05:51 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Thu Aug 24 00:05:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF: Browse server Class? In-Reply-To: <086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]> <086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <p04310102b5ca5c7ddb88@[64.229.68.60]> At 5:18 PM -0700 8/22/00, Jeff wrote: > based on the subject matter of your questions in the > past i'm guessing this is a cold fusion question. > however, other than having something to do with a dsn, > i'm not sure what your question actually is. could you > possibly restate your question, maybe with some more > background info on what you're trying to accomplish? D'Oh! Yes. Cold Fusion makes a number of pre-written classes available for the user. What I'm referring to is a java applet that browses a specific server, the way that the Explorer does in Windows. Select a file or folder, it returns a path. Pretty handy for setting up backend stuff. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From framar at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 00:09:10 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Thu Aug 24 00:09:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF: Browse server Class? In-Reply-To: <009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]> <086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> <009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> Message-ID: <p04310103b5ca5de42fe3@[64.229.68.60]> At 6:46 PM -0800 8/22/00, Chris Lott wrote: >http://www.amkor.com/proving_grounds/cf_directoryexplorer/index.cfm Right! This is supposed to do what I want (but fails in it's online demo, have you had success with it?) > There are probably other java applets out there made to > do this that you could implement with CFAPPLET or something. A little later, I finally figured out that it's their own code using CFTREE. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From r937 at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 00:35:44 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Thu Aug 24 00:35:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] re:css - margin-right property Message-ID: <01c00d8d$1ec2b300$cd57059a@default> > does a CSS linked style sheet not overide any html? hi lisa um, i think the answer is "maybe" -- it depends on the individual circumstances, the particular tags in question sorry that's not all that helpful in the case of body margins in the style sheet overriding the ie/nn specific attributes in the body tag, i just plain don't know, and it's way too late (it's like 1:30 a.m. here) for me to start testing perhaps http://richinstyle.com can help... anyhow, i'm hardly ever in a position to need to set the body margin to zero, to get something out to the very edge of the window, so i guess i would probably try it with css first, check it in ie4 and netscape 4.04 (a notoriously bad browser for css) and go with the body tag attributes if it didn't work in both of these browsers flawlessly the first time i do use a style sheet to bring the margins *in* when there are large blocks of text (long lines of text are hard to read) -- body{margin-left:20%;margin-right:20%} this is sort of like putting your text into a centered table with width=60% by the way, did you figure out which one of the 5 body tag attributes you had that was extraneous? no harm done, by the way, because all browsers will ignore tag attributes that they don't recognize f'rinstance, when the day drags on and i get cranky, i sometimes write stuff like <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" penguin="i dunno, what's he look like?" bgcolor=FFFFFF border="0"> in the firm knowledge that it can't hurt the page and only another code jockey will ever see it ;o) rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From chris at intranet.dist-ed.uaf.edu Thu Aug 24 00:38:42 2000 From: chris at intranet.dist-ed.uaf.edu (Chris Lott) Date: Thu Aug 24 00:38:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF: Browse server Class? References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]><086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com><009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> <p04310103b5ca5de42fe3@[64.229.68.60]> Message-ID: <018d01c00d8e$c69aba40$6401a8c0@S003817> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >http://www.amkor.com/proving_grounds/cf_directoryexplorer/index.cfm > >> > Right! This is supposed to do what I want (but fails in it's online > demo, have you had success with it?) Never actually implemented it myself, but I imagine they have some security procedures in place for the demo? > A little later, I finally figured out that it's their own code > using CFTREE. Cool. I assumed it was a dedicated applet of some kind. If you get it working, you should consider making it available as a custom tag or something. It would be quite useful to many, I am sure. c -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.3 Comment: KeyID: 0x51046CFD [this signature for sender verification] iQA/AwUBOaS26NaLYehRBGz9EQIAoQCbB0AbA0CZiNF1FSPcjtKr0c3PCa0AnRfH rzFPswwudjU7fXAbDWGZBqbv =jNna -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pmeeks at email.msn.com Thu Aug 24 00:53:37 2000 From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Patricia Meeks) Date: Thu Aug 24 00:53:37 2000 Subject: [thelist] Meta Tags in an SSI? Will Robots Read Them? References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]><086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com><009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> <p04310103b5ca5de42fe3@[64.229.68.60]> Message-ID: <004f01c00d8f$d1aaf3e0$254d83d0@fe51t> I just had someone ask me an interesting question: If you place your meta tags on a Server Side Include (SSI), will the search engine robots pick them up (assuming it's one of the search engine robots that is programmed to use meta tags -- many don't). Thanks! Regards, Pat pmeeks at msn.com From jeff at c4webdesign.com Thu Aug 24 01:14:35 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:14:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Meta Tags in an SSI? Will Robots Read Them? References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]><086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com><009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> <p04310103b5ca5de42fe3@[64.229.68.60]> <004f01c00d8f$d1aaf3e0$254d83d0@fe51t> Message-ID: <116001c00d92$267bae80$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> patricia, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Patricia Meeks <pmeeks at email.msn.com> : : I just had someone ask me an interesting question: : If you place your meta tags on a Server Side Include : (SSI), will the search engine robots pick them up : (assuming it's one of the search engine robots that : is programmed to use meta tags -- many don't). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ lemme ask you a question that will hopefully help you figure out the answer to yours. when you look at the source of a webpage, can you tell if ssi's were used? good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From r937 at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 01:19:12 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:19:12 2000 Subject: [thelist] Meta Tags in an SSI? Will Robots Read Them? Message-ID: <01c00d93$452cee60$cd57059a@default> > If you place your meta tags on a Server Side Include (SSI), > will the search engine robots pick them up hi pat yup spiders see the page after the ssi is filled in, the same as a browser would rudy limeback r937.com evolt.org From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Thu Aug 24 01:23:27 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:23:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! javascript problem Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D3AB@PIBCRMEXH001> to those who helped me with this - YOU ARE WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and yes the pages to link to will be done when those who are inputting them into our new publishing system get around to finishing it!!! Schaz - who is very happy to have the JS error fixed and is bogeyed after looking @ raw html since 7am this morning From pmeeks at email.msn.com Thu Aug 24 01:30:58 2000 From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Patricia Meeks) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:30:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] Meta Tags in an SSI? Will Robots Read Them? References: <p04310100b5c8b01c0932@[64.229.76.214]><086101c00c97$abd175c0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com><009401c00cac$48de4b90$5b15e589@chris> <p04310103b5ca5de42fe3@[64.229.68.60]> <004f01c00d8f$d1aaf3e0$254d83d0@fe51t> <116001c00d92$267bae80$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <000801c00d95$0bcdd1a0$444d83d0@fe51t> Thanks, all, for the answer. I assumed it work just fine, but I've been sure before on some things where it turned out I was dead wrong. Thanks! Regards, Pat pmeeks at msn.com From erika at seastorm.com Thu Aug 24 01:41:39 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:41:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] re:css - margin-right property In-Reply-To: <01c00d8d$1ec2b300$cd57059a@default> References: <01c00d8d$1ec2b300$cd57059a@default> Message-ID: <v04220803b5ca6f858509@[209.213.133.110]> > > does a CSS linked style sheet not overide any html? > >hi lisa > >um, i think the answer is "maybe" -- it depends on the individual >circumstances, the particular tags in question This is probably true, but I've found that, at least with current browsers, when the browser can do the CSS, the CSS overrides the HTML. For example, sometimes I have CSS declarations for light text over a dark table cell background (as in the nav menus for seastorm.com). Well, even though it looks like crap, I still want it usable in non-CSS browsers. So while I have a CSS declaration for dark background, light links, in the HTML I have a light background and default (dark) links. CSS browsers see the CSS. Non CSS browsers see the HTML. Netscape seems to have trouble with CSS padding and margins. I'd use both CSS & HTML. Erika From erika at seastorm.com Thu Aug 24 01:45:41 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Thu Aug 24 01:45:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <p05000a01b5ca28ea2a0b@[24.6.48.4]> References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117201258E@gate.ti3.com> <002301c00d47$9c5db580$5ea01c3f@lonnie> <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> <p05000a01b5ca28ea2a0b@[24.6.48.4]> Message-ID: <v04220801b5ca67ceb4f7@[209.213.133.110]> >I sorta figured you'd been treated to some lousy HTML tests. I started to write an article about HTML tests, got bored, and ended up writing about Elvis. Oh well. So anyway, here's what my testing experiences were: 1. a multiple choice HTML4 test on quiz.com. This was the best because it was not horribly taxing, there were clear standards (HTML4), fairly clear guidelines, a certain number of questions, and answers that were either right or wrong. I was never told how I scored, but that's okay. (Your tester is supposed to tell you, though.) This test only showed how well I knew the specs, not what kind of coding decisions I might make. I actually enjoyed taking this test. It was a challenging test, but easier than actually writing code. 2. a home-made test in which I was supposed to fix "errors" on a screwed up page. This was a bit more taxing and headachey. By the end I had it looking good, validating as HTML4 transitional, and I changed some IE-only text-rollover javascript to the CSS it was imitating. I also killed the FONT tags. (no guidelines were given.) The test-giver called me. He was a nice guy, but thought I was "overqualified." 3. A test for a very large web temp organization. This test was the most challenging, and it specified HTML 3.2 code. I burned thru, but didn't get the whole thing done in the hour they gave me. (it was a lot for an hour: two pages with fairly complex table layout, images, links, and a hand-made image map.) What made me angry was that the "evaluator" didn't really know anything about HTML or web design. She didn't check most of the test, just spot checked a couple of obvious things. For me to have worked so hard at it, they could have at least had it evaluated by someone who knew some HTML, and/or something about browsers and design issues. My advice to anyone getting ready to take such a test is to try and get them to be as clear as possible regarding the criteria which they'll be using to judge the results. Otherwise you'll waste time perfecting some detail the tester doesn't care about, while you could be working on a detail the tester finds terribly important. My tester would have been a lot more impressed if I'd gone into the browser preferences and bumped up the default font size to make everything fit into the table exactly like it did on the paper. >Heh. Anyhow, all of this is meant to say: Don't lose hope. There are >those of us out here who are proud of our craft and want to keep >pushing it forward. If you're ever in Atlanta, look up Renaissance >Interactive sigh. Thanks. Again, wrong other side of the continent. But I've seen your site & it does, indeed, offer hope. aardvark: yes, exactly. the test tells something about the organization giving it. That's for sure! Erika From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Thu Aug 24 02:30:30 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Thu Aug 24 02:30:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] javascript help again Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D3B2@PIBCRMEXH001> got one more problem - I can't seem to link to the pages that I need too. I have absolutely nothing to do with the shims - they weren't my idea and I'm not happy about them! background: the "system" generates homepages and we've got no idea of what the actual pages are called (as they seem to change!!!). thanks every1 very much for the help with this - we're showing a quick look at the new system to our Minister tomorrow morning and I'm going nuts (ok that could have something to do with waaaay tooooo much coffee and chocolate!) here is the code for the whole form <CODE SNIP> <FORM METHOD="get" ACTION="" NAME=""> <TD rowspan="16" ALIGN="LEFT" VALIGN="TOP"><IMG SRC="/images/common/shim.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" BORDER="0"></TD> <TD ALIGN="LEFT" VALIGN="BOTTOM"> </TD> <TD colspan="8" ALIGN="LEFT" VALIGN="TOP"><IMG SRC="/images/common/shim.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" BORDER="0"></TD> <TD VALIGN="TOP" COLSPAN="6" NOWRAP ROWSPAN="3"> <P><SPAN CLASS="lessthannormal"><B>DPI Subject areas:</B></SPAN> <select name="Redirect" class="selectNav"> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/animals/">Animals</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/fieldcrops/">Broad-acre field crops</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/business/">Business & economics</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/community/">Community issues</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/environmental/">Environmental management</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/">Fisheries, aquaculture & seafood</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/food/">Food technology</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/forestry/">Forestry, timber & wood</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/horticulture">Horticulture & fresh produce</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/pastures/">Pastures</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/pest">Pest & disease control</option> <option value="http://webstage.dpi.qld.gov.au/science/">Science & technology</option> </select> <A HREF="#" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore();MM_displayStatusMsg(' ');return document.MM_returnValue" onMouseOver="MM_displayStatusMsg('displayMessage');MM_swapImage('document.ic on_r2_c6','document.icon_r2_c6','/images/common/icon_r2_c6_F2.gif','#9480866 65618');return document.MM_returnValue" onClick="location.href=document.forms[0].Redirect.options[document.forms[0]. Redirect.selectedIndex].value" target="_top"><IMG SRC="images/common/icon_r2_c6.gif" NAME="icon_r2_c6" WIDTH="16" HEIGHT="16" BORDER="0" ALT="Go" ALIGN="ABSBOTTOM" VSPACE="2"></A> <br> <SPAN CLASS="lessthannormal"><a href="/home/417.asp" target="_top">DPI keyword search</a></SPAN></P> </TD> <TD ALIGN="LEFT" VALIGN="TOP"><IMG SRC="/images/common/shim.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" BORDER="0"></TD> </FORM> </CODE SNIP> From martin at members.evolt.org Thu Aug 24 03:15:59 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Thu Aug 24 03:15:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] open source development network In-Reply-To: <39A3DA86.E27FAD40@five2one.org> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEMBDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> <4.3.2.7.0.20000823080755.00ba3650@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823201711.00bb8610@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 15:07 23/08/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > > 2) You use it to draw a specific audience back to yourself > > (eg Freshmeat) > >nein Hmmm - not altogether religious about this. I'm actually quite happy to use this to attract more people into what we do (after all, isn't this a bigger version of the personal evangelism?), on the understanding that we'd be careful not to let this skew the overall direction of what we're doing. Useful contrast: the 2 big web content syndication agencies: http://www.screamingmedia.com/ http://www.isyndicate.com/ (both quoted from memory so usual caveats apply) Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaQjyHHoHnCoNczLEQJnmgCdFniXZMSAGIR1Uz2GK5t1azm4KGgAn1uW I0SS+bC20vmIEcwPZPmf39ND =wlvM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Thu Aug 24 03:16:23 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Thu Aug 24 03:16:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220804b5c99251c0ad@[216.176.7.226]> References: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D7FB1B6@usachcs-emh1.army.mil> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823201959.00badad0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 15:53 23/08/00, Erika Meyer wrote: >2. work quickly. don't worry if it's not pretty. chances are they don't >care (or won't notice) if your attributes are quoted or your TD's closed. Probably the opposite for people you actually want to work for - the quality (and even more, the quality approach) is the key. Given the choice, I'd rather work for Algonquin Studios (who would care about the quality more than anything) than some bullshit volume merchant. >3. spec? what's a spec? Yup, those are Good Things. >4. if you think they care about your design skills, think again. Not if you're being asked about HTML tests. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaQkT3HoHnCoNczLEQKSFQCgpAxWwyrtT0SFQAf3A1mUFV+v7/YAoJuZ xtmHr6QBJ5EkK84J+0NUL8WH =3FmS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Thu Aug 24 03:16:49 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Thu Aug 24 03:16:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <003101c00d15$a5b43960$565edbd1@nerve> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823083012.00c55780@mail.bayou.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823202242.00bb6df0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 16:20 23/08/00, l a u r a *^* l y n c h wrote: >Absolutely. Especially considering that emailed resumes often print with >weird carriage returns (making them harder to read), it's nice to be able to >point them to a version that will print nicely. mmmm - pdf. And downloadable Word/rtf. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaQknnHoHnCoNczLEQLBCQCg2r/ff4m9l0mrx7BjDZ8+NzTgZ3EAoMe/ plZL4muLVgGzS9qJtCyb1cRj =PChW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Martin.Burns at Scottishpower.plc.uk Thu Aug 24 06:26:25 2000 From: Martin.Burns at Scottishpower.plc.uk (Burns, Martin (RBS)) Date: Thu Aug 24 06:26:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] FW: dreamweaver3 Message-ID: <27BDC471C974D311AE4A0008C7DA7F8D0192EC2A@porspwnts01.por.scottishpower.plc.uk> Thought this might be of interest to some. Cheers Martin > -----Original Message----- > From: Yeomans, Guy > Sent: 24 August 2000 12:21 > To: Burns, Martin (RBS) > Subject: dreamweaver > > Martin, > > Haven't looked at this yet, but FYI > Dreamweaver 3 > > Edward Tanguay learns Dreamweaver and is mightily impressed. The ease of > creating DHTML, CSS and JavaScript features is just a beginning. What's > equally impressive is the possibility of restructuring Dreamweaver the way > you like it, adding new features and sharing them with others. With this > open philosophy, Macromedia is paving the way into a new kind of software. > http://www.webdevelopersjournal.com/diary/8_22.html > > > Guy Yeomans > (Content Manager) > > mailto: guy.yeomans at scottishpower.plc.uk > > Direct Line: 0141 567 3018 > Mobile: 07711 305 814 > Fax: 0141 567 2958 > > RoboScot 38 Limited, 3rd Floor, 100 Bothwell Street, Glasgow, G2 7JL > From CEwing at sscinc.com Thu Aug 24 07:24:27 2000 From: CEwing at sscinc.com (Ewing, Christopher) Date: Thu Aug 24 07:24:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP Question - Querying data from NT login information Message-ID: <4C8A86158E9FD31199C00008C7CFCC8B02440C2B@EXCHANGE> I've never done it before, but I'm pretty sure I can get the NT login name of a user after they have gone through an NT login on a webserver. If that is in fact correct, can I also get NT to divulge some further information about them? Information out of the NT security profile, things like first and last name? The user names we are using for a project are rather cryptic and instead of building another database to reference, it would be much easier to just query NT security for the first and last name for a customization of the site. Chris From Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk Thu Aug 24 07:54:19 2000 From: Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk (Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk) Date: Thu Aug 24 07:54:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] Text size Message-ID: <OF4F021FB7.990CFBB8-ON80256945.00471FA1@chi.nhs.uk> >> Unless a user is using IE5 Mac, s/he cannot, to my knowledge, resize >> either px or pt without turning CSS off. (Someone will correct me if >> I'm wrong.) > That's right, although I thought it was just pixels that you couldn't > resize? That's what I thought too, but apparently not so!! pt also cannot be resized. Which is why I am looking for an alternative. Thanks Erika for your input. I think I shall probably use percent, or maybe not state any font size at all. Zo? Oughton ****************************************************************************** Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Commission for Health Improvement. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please check for viruses before accessing attachments. Although we endeavour to keep files clean we can take no responsibility for any damage caused by contagion. ****************************************************************************** From rwhite at edverify.com Thu Aug 24 08:38:04 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Thu Aug 24 08:38:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] HTML test (tip) In-Reply-To: <v04220800b5ca1d13c564@[216.176.7.229]> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFMEIMDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Thinking Erika might need a group Hug :-) Ron <tip> Keep saying to yourself: "It'll all work out" Stress levels will drop :-) </tip> From rwhite at edverify.com Thu Aug 24 08:53:02 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Thu Aug 24 08:53:02 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEPDDHAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFEEIODFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Do the * work here? Someone yesterday said they didn't and from the multitudes of doubleclick entries you have it would seem they don't. Ron From _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 24 08:59:13 2000 From: _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mike=20King?=) Date: Thu Aug 24 08:59:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP Question - Querying data from NT login information Message-ID: <20000824135933.6825.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a little bit of code that pulls the data you need: <% Dim UserObj, strServer, strDom, strFullName strDom = "DomainName\" ' the domain name with a backslah strServer = "CoPDC" Set UserObj = GetObject("WinNT://" & sreServer & "/" &_ Replace(Request.ServerVariables("LOGON_USER"), strDom, "")) strFullName = UserObj.get("Fullname") Set UserObj = Nothing Response.Write "Logged in as " & strFullName %> Give me a shout if you need any help. Cheers Mike King ===== Get your free wombles.com email address @ http://www.wombles.com e. mike.king at redroom.co.uk t. 07971 292 999 ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From oliver at lineham.co.nz Thu Aug 24 09:17:03 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Thu Aug 24 09:17:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] tuesday freebie In-Reply-To: <01c401c00c26$a07e0d80$0701a8c0@wsarthur> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000825021547.009a2b60@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 11:49 22/08/00 +0100, you wrote: >javascript:for(i=0;i<document.all.length;i++)if(document.all[i].tagName=='TA >BLE')void(document.all[i].border=(document.all[i].border=='0')?'1':'0'); hey, that's really cool. thanks muchly, arthur! it immediately won a place on my toolbar. </ol> ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From framar at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 09:51:23 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Thu Aug 24 09:51:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> References: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <p04310101b5ca555c2e70@[64.229.68.60]> At 12:19 AM -0400 8/24/00, aardvark wrote: > if some yokel hands you an HTML test and you demonstrate > beautiful and compliant code, and said yokel never > notices (maybe asks where the 'naturalsizeflag' > attribute is in the image tag -- "Thank you for your time, Mr. Interviewer, however I have a this time determined that you are incompetent to manage me. I will however keep your company in mind should there be a change in management." As an aside, I think that as a tip, it's a great slice of the industry that I would never have seen. I've been hiring, and I notice that most of the responses to my queries are met with people who use FrontPage (automatic dismissal) or another wysiwyg editor (badly, mostly) and claim to be web designers who can do DHTML. During an interview, I asked the woman to pull up her portfolio, and when I asked her to show me the source, she refused to claiming that it was copyrighted, and that I had no right to look. (?!!) I have learned a few lessons: 1) I can only manage as competently as I work. To hire and manage skillfully, you must know your trade better than most, and look for those who are more skillful than yourself. 2) There's way more money working as an independent contractor than there is doing HTML for others (as a 'real job'). Face it, HTMLers are becoming the blue collar workers of this era. 3) I've found that my most skillful, deliver-on-time-and-budget people are young eager people willing to be trained and subjugate their will to my vision. This is where 1) comes in. Not only that, but it builds loyalty. Here are examples of my HTML tests. Here's a (simple) web page I've designed. I want you to reproduce it (hand coded) in spec compliant 4.0 (without peeking at my code). You have 20 minutes. Then I watch them to see how they approach the problem. Here's a webpage: see this problem? What causes it? What's the fix? Here's someone else's webpage. List all the problem you can identify. (No syntax checker allowed). I deliberately say things that I know are incorrect to see if they'll correct me or look baffled at my sheer stupidity. "Since stylesheets were deprecated in HTML 3.2, we decided that..." (Maybe I should ask where the naturalsizeflag is!) I don't look for 'right answers', but for their ability to work it out. My 2?. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From sgd at ti3.com Thu Aug 24 10:36:40 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu Aug 24 10:36:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP question Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172012596@gate.ti3.com> > > >I'd look into writing an ASAPI dll > > I think Scott meant to type "ISAPI" dll. > Yes, Thanksh <tip type="obscure IIS fun"> (note, I'm writing in first person for the fun of it) I have multiple web sites on one NIC, and everything is cool. --I've got the host headers defined in the MMC so people get to their sites properly. Now, throw in the monkey wrenches: * Through some decision I wasn't a part of, there's now a firewall in front of my server. Port 80 and 443 are the only two open (443 is for SSL) * Two of my clients want to have secure sites Okay, no problem. Just get the certificates, and bind to port 443 ... shit. I can't bind more than one SSL certificate to the same port. --That's right. I don't know if its IIS or the RFC, but one can not attach more than one certificate to the same port. Alllrighty then, I'll just take web site #2 and use port 1443 for SSL, and then in the firewall, I'll remap it so when anyone comes through it looking for web site #2's SSL (on 443) it gets translated to port 1443 from the firewall to IIS. Hot Dog! It works! ... until I get a call from client #2. They can't get to the SSL part of the site. wtf?! IIS does funny things sometimes. Request https://www.client2.com/mall/ and everything is cool. Request https://www.client2.com/mall (notice there is no trailing /) and IIS sends back a redirect --with the port number-- to the right spot: https://www.client2.com:1443/mall/ This is a problem; I don't have 1443 open on the firewall. No wonder they can't get in. My workaround until I can research and strangle the right people? --Open port 1443. ugh. Anyone wanna see if Apache does the same? </tip> From _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 24 11:27:15 2000 From: _redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mike=20King?=) Date: Thu Aug 24 11:27:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] ASP Question - Querying data from NT login information Message-ID: <20000824162735.1837.qmail@web214.mail.yahoo.com> Ooops sausage fingers =) Line 7 should be Set UserObj = GetObject("WinNT://" & strServer & "/" &_ Cheers mk ps I think you'll need the MS ADSI kit as well =) --- Mike King <_redroom_ at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Here's a little bit of code that pulls the data you need: > > <% > Dim UserObj, strServer, strDom, strFullName > > strDom = "DomainName\" ' the domain name with a backslah > strServer = "CoPDC" > > Set UserObj = GetObject("WinNT://" & sreServer & "/" &_ > Replace(Request.ServerVariables("LOGON_USER"), strDom, "")) > strFullName = UserObj.get("Fullname") > > Set UserObj = Nothing > > Response.Write "Logged in as " & strFullName > %> ===== Get your free wombles.com email address @ http://www.wombles.com e. mike.king at redroom.co.uk t. 07971 292 999 ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From javier at msm.cl Thu Aug 24 12:31:48 2000 From: javier at msm.cl (javier) Date: Thu Aug 24 12:31:48 2000 Subject: [thelist] Western Union References: <fb.a4e078d.26d5d76b@aol.com> <0de301c00d6e$a12b3160$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <39A5525C.9FCF7BF@msm.cl> Jeff wrote: > the few times i've dealt with western union i've found that they don't > notify you that the money has been delivered. instead, you have to call > them to find out if it's shown up or not. > > :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > : So this morning I sent the gentleman an e-mail notifiying > : him I've suspended work on his project. > :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > you might wanna give your local western union office a ring asap to find out > if it's indeed been sent. if it has, i'd jump on an apology email right > away. jeff's right, they don't notify you you have to ask your client for the "money order code" (something like that) and ask your local office if they've recieved it -- -javier- http://mantruc.com http://evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt! From erika at seastorm.com Thu Aug 24 13:03:51 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:03:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <p04310101b5ca555c2e70@[64.229.68.60]> References: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <p04310101b5ca555c2e70@[64.229.68.60]> Message-ID: <v04220801b5cb0ad0e866@[209.213.133.55]> > >3) I've found that my most skillful, deliver-on-time-and-budget people are young eager people willing to be trained and subjugate their will to my vision. This is probably one reason I'm a problem. I'm really really old. I'm over 30. Yeah, I have thoughts and ideas. But when it comes to skills, I'm more than willing to be trained. There are a variety of reasons I'm not actively seeking independent freelance work right now, but ultimately, yeah, I'd rather be running the show than playing a bit part. >I don't look for 'right answers', but for their ability to work it out. I think this is a more realistic assessment of skills. This would be a SUBJECTIVELY evaluated test as opposed to an OBJECTIVELY evaluated test. IMO you can only adequately evaluate a subjective test if you yourself understand what is being tested. For an objective test, a machine can score it. I used to be a writing teacher. Grammar tests could be objective. But one's ability to write can not be tested objectively. I think real work HTML is similar. But then, testers should also consider allowing use of the spec, much as writers are expected to make use of a dictionary. The real issue, with me, is whether having thoughts and ideas is an asset or a liability. Or whether I, as a human being, am just going to be a poor substitute for a machine. Erika From sabowski at wam.umd.edu Thu Aug 24 13:27:09 2000 From: sabowski at wam.umd.edu (Erik M. Sabowski) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:27:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <v04220801b5cb0ad0e866@[209.213.133.55]> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> over 30 is really really old? I would think something more like over 65 is really really old :) #airyk +--------------------------------+ | Erik M. Sabowski | | Computer Assistant, NOAA (NGS) | | sabowski at wam.umd.edu | +--------------------------------+ | "Don't try to out-stupid Erik" | | -ash | +--------------------------------+ On Aug 24, 2000, Erika Meyer made the following sound: > > I'm really really old. I'm over 30. > From framar at interlog.com Thu Aug 24 13:28:14 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:28:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <v04220801b5cb0ad0e866@[209.213.133.55]> References: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <p04310101b5ca555c2e70@[64.229.68.60]> <v04220801b5cb0ad0e866@[209.213.133.55]> Message-ID: <p04310101b5cb1959d7a1@[64.229.73.193]> At 10:51 AM -0700 8/24/00, Erika Meyer wrote: > The real issue, with me, is whether having thoughts and > ideas is an asset or a liability. Or whether I, as a > human being, am just going to be a poor substitute for a machine. That depends entirely on who you choose to partner with. (Choose wisely! Nothing worse than getting the professional clap <g>) -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From jay at weberrific.org Thu Aug 24 13:36:53 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:36:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <200008241837.OAA13656@server5000.net> Yea, that's enough about over 30 begin old! Why, I feel like I'm still 18, except that I hve two kids, and I don't ditch work like I used to ditch school, and my belly is a *bit* bigger, and I have two grey hairs on each temple, and I'm married, and I have a career, and, and ... But dangit, 31 is NOT old! > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik M. Sabowski [mailto:sabowski at wam.umd.edu] > > over 30 is really really old? I would think something more > like over 65 is > really really old :) > > #airyk > > On Aug 24, 2000, Erika Meyer made the following sound: > > > > > I'm really really old. I'm over 30. > > > > - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From dascott at wam.umd.edu Thu Aug 24 13:45:15 2000 From: dascott at wam.umd.edu (dave gray) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:45:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] CGI::get? In-Reply-To: <39A48513.9FE1E812@13monkeys.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241344110.17819-100000@rac4.wam.umd.edu> if you have lynx installed on your box, you could also do: $text = `lynx -source http://www.evolt.org/`; -dave > that you can pass it a url and it will return the contents of that page > in a string. Something like > > $text = CGI::get("http://www.evolt.org"); From andrea at geonetric.com Thu Aug 24 13:53:36 2000 From: andrea at geonetric.com (Andrea Belk) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:53:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <200008241837.OAA13656@server5000.net> Message-ID: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBOEKJCHAA.andrea@geonetric.com> I feel like just a pup... I'm under 25... -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Turley Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:37 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Yea, that's enough about over 30 begin old! Why, I feel like I'm still 18, except that I hve two kids, and I don't ditch work like I used to ditch school, and my belly is a *bit* bigger, and I have two grey hairs on each temple, and I'm married, and I have a career, and, and ... But dangit, 31 is NOT old! > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik M. Sabowski [mailto:sabowski at wam.umd.edu] > > over 30 is really really old? I would think something more > like over 65 is > really really old :) > > #airyk > > On Aug 24, 2000, Erika Meyer made the following sound: > > > > > I'm really really old. I'm over 30. > > > > - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Thu Aug 24 14:04:45 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:04:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <OF67F217AE.3536A175-ON85256945.00673E48@1.10.196> you know that guy rudy from survivor? now *that's* old (my favourite part of the whole series was a week ago, when they had to run around with camcorders, filming themselves answering questions, and rudy kept going "i dunno"... "i dunno"... "i dunno" -- hilarious) another rudy, not quite as old, but, um, probably two sigmas ahead of the rest of y'all p.s. oh yeah, folks, don't forget the tips for off-topic posts <tip> opening a popup window with javascript? always put onLoad="self.focus()" into the body tag of the popup page </tip i created a link to a popup page on my company's intranet and was dismayed to hear that one or two people had reported problems using it -- they said it didn't work turns out they were double-clicking the link!! on the first click, the popup window appears, but on the second click, the act of clicking brings the opener page back into focus, then clicking it again (re)loads the popup window, which just stays in the background from the user's perspective, it appears like a very brief flicker, and a popup that isn't working should i have anticipated that some users will double-click a link? ayup, i believe that's part of the web designer's job From erika at seastorm.com Thu Aug 24 14:10:05 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:10:05 2000 Subject: [thelist] age In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> woah! That was a joke! I have an over-80 year old grandma who is young enough to play tennis a couple times a week. I've had 25 year olds tell me they're getting old "for the industry." So I was being a wee bit sarcastic, sarcasm being something that almost never translates well on email. sheesh! Erika >over 30 is really really old? I would think something more like over 65 is >really really old :) > >#airyk From elisabeth at xuxygrafix.com Thu Aug 24 14:11:57 2000 From: elisabeth at xuxygrafix.com (Elisabeth Heinicke) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:11:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: <39A5768D.15534999@xuxygrafix.com> > over 30 is really really old? I would think something more like over 65 is > really really old :) > hmmm ... that gives me, what?, another 8-10 years to be truly decrepit? And I thought I was just starting out on a great new portion of my life! Damn. --Elisabeth Heinicke Xuxy Grafix From rwhite at edverify.com Thu Aug 24 14:21:59 2000 From: rwhite at edverify.com (Ron White) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:21:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] age In-Reply-To: <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> Message-ID: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFKEJEDFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> That's cause you forgot the obligatory :-) to signify humour :-) Ron > sarcasm being something that >almost never translates well on email. From jay at weberrific.org Thu Aug 24 14:22:16 2000 From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:22:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <200008241922.PAA32359@server5000.net> Heh. Is my face red? <tip type="javascript" subject="cross-browser compatibility"> Recent use of split() has given me some interesting results. The most recent is the fact that IE and Netscape have different null characters. In the following code, I had to set the nullcharacter so that both browsers would work properly on the if() statement. var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase(); var is_ie = (agt.indexOf("msie") != -1); priceStringParts = priceString.split("."); // cross-browser fix *** var nullchar = (is_ie)?null:undefined; // *** if (priceStringParts[1] == nullchar) { } Only then would the if() statement process properly. </tip> - Jay Turley --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.weberrific.org "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" From deboute at nerdsoul.com Thu Aug 24 14:29:12 2000 From: deboute at nerdsoul.com (deboute benjamin) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:29:12 2000 Subject: [thelist] CGI::get? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241344110.17819-100000@rac4.wam.umd.edu> References: <39A48513.9FE1E812@13monkeys.com> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000824213304.00d77280@POP3.club-internet.fr> At 13:45 24/08/00 -0500, you wrote: >if you have lynx installed on your box, you could also do: > >$text = `lynx -source http://www.evolt.org/`; > > -dave > > > > that you can pass it a url and it will return the contents of that page > > in a string. Something like > > > > $text = CGI::get("http://www.evolt.org"); > http://snoopy.sourceforge.net virtual browser in a php class. very hackable. great functionalities. very simple. From RLuth at telxon.com Thu Aug 24 14:32:46 2000 From: RLuth at telxon.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Thu Aug 24 14:32:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <7DEC156DC5E9D111ACF200805FA7916E0104D744@ushoex1.telxon.com> 30??? ... Old??? ... Hmmm ..... I guess writing and debugging my first program over 29 years ago qualifies me for the retirement home .... :-) Ron L ... who's (29 + 1) .......... 'course ..... that's thars ifn you count in hex .... <tip> If you don't grow up by 35 .... You don't have to! </tip> <tip> Dunno if this is really a tip or not ... but for the year or so that I've been listening here ... I've been clipping ... cutting "interesting" snippets out of most of the posts ... and pasting them into Word files ... (they're easier for me to archive) ... then I print 'em out and read 'em over ... sometimes things I didn't catch at the time make a lot more sense to me now .... </tip> ...and as a very good friend of mine was quite fond of saying .... "You're only as old as the " [select one: options = women/men/sheep] "you feel!" -----Original Message----- From: Jay Turley [mailto:jay at weberrific.org] Subject: RE: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. Yea, that's enough about over 30 begin old! Why, I feel like I'm still 18, From marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com Thu Aug 24 16:05:12 2000 From: marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:05:12 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. Message-ID: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA61615A155@EXCHANGE> Rudy was recently bugging me offlist about where the h-e-double-toothpick I am these days, so I thought I'd add my .02 to this thread. > From: Eduardo Dominguez > Being new to css, i was wondering if i can apply a style > to a whole table in the <table> tag and not in every > <td> or <tr>. I want, if possible, to define cellpad, cellspace, > width and font. > > Is this possible ?? > Most of your question has been answered here-to-fore. I'll reiterate what Rudy said about defining the CSS in your header, and not generally needing to assign the attributes to each line. In the header (or even better - and externally linked style sheet) is usually best practice. Regarding font issues, the em unit is indeed just as unpredicatable, across browser and platform, as Aard mentioned. As I recently responded to another thread here, for one project I ended up having to develop four style sheets (which included contents within nested tables) to accommodate just the 4.x browsers and up. While theoretically the em should be best, you have to be ultra-careful about the cascading of your tags. IOW, if you use ems to assign a font size to the <p> tag, and also to the <td> tag, and then use the <p> within the <td></td>, it will adjust size accordingly, which may not be desirable. And then there is the problems you'll discover with inconsistent browser support. Point is more predictable, and might give more design control, but then you've got problems with browser/platform differences, and the fixed font size may impede your users with poor eyesight. Definitely check out Aard's article. One of my favorite references for CSS support is: <tip type="CSS browser support reference" author="marlene"> An up-to-date CSS browser support chart, easy to understand (at least for me, ymmv): http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/index.html </tip> Cheers, Marlene From ervsplace at hotmail.com Thu Aug 24 16:26:37 2000 From: ervsplace at hotmail.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:26:37 2000 Subject: [thelist] IIS and ftp clients Message-ID: <F308zwWJv3zOdnjQ8vj00000c23@hotmail.com> I was curious if anyone could point me to some info on how to set up IIS/ftp to allow browser access? Our company does not have browser access to it's ftp site but our customer always complain that they can access other ftp sites with netscape. TIA Dan ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com Thu Aug 24 16:56:28 2000 From: marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:56:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA61615A157@EXCHANGE> > From: Jamie Madden > > I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I could ask you > > evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes [snip] > > I have a web version at: http://www.digitizethis.com/portfolio/resume.html and a printable version at: http://www.digitizethis.com/portfolio/printresume.html > And... > Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online > resume. Just wondering. > > In my experience, they do. Don't know what kind of work you do, but having a demonstrable portfolio online may also be helpful (for either design or coding). My current employer remarked how much they appreciated the fact that I had descriptions within my portfolio of how I specifically contributed to each project. I've had more job changes in the last year than I care to discuss (I left #1 because of an incredible offer, which then turned into an incompatible working relationship (#2), and company #3 went bankrupt...now, company #4 is stable and a great match), and because I've done so much job hunting recently I am fully aware of how an online resume can be of help. Especially if you register with places such as http://www.monster.com/ and the like, recruiters will eat it up (at least they did mine). Your location and skills will probably have a significant impact on the offers or inquiries you get off your online resume. Even when I'm not looking, I try to keep my resume updated every quarter at least. Good luck, Marlene From smaxey at bcr.com Thu Aug 24 16:58:34 2000 From: smaxey at bcr.com (Steve Maxey) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:58:34 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT (verbage) In-Reply-To: <200008171455.HAA00348@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <20000817151855.C15659@mrbusy.compsoc.man.ac.uk> <003a01c0084c$372ce640$2ed21a26@roselli> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000824164351.00d63110@morgaine.bcr.com> At 10:51 AM 8/17/00 -0400, you wrote: > > Which dictionary? > >the one in my house... Websters... check the archives for my post >where i listed the 5 (or so) verb form definitions... Just saying "Websters" doesn't tell us anything. There are several different dictionaries put out under the name "Websters" from different publishing houses and different lexicographers. Besides which, a dictionary doesn't say anything how a word "should" be used. It merely records how it IS being used in the language during the period leading up to the dictionary's publication. All your dictionary tells us is that "impact" has been used as a synonym for "affect" with enough frequency that lexicographers felt this use should be recorded. It's still a weasel word, and poor usage. From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Thu Aug 24 17:47:39 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Thu Aug 24 17:47:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] javascript help again Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D3B3@PIBCRMEXH001> ok kiddies I've fixed the problem - it was late and I needed sleep!!!!!!! what I've done was put the js in a linked file (because the js code was system generated and I couldn't get into it). still a little bit of tweaking to do with the dropdown but that is ok I can happily play with that. Schaz > got one more problem - I can't seem to link to the pages that I need too. > > I have absolutely nothing to do with the shims - they weren't my idea and > I'm not happy about them! > > background: the "system" generates homepages and we've got no idea of what > the actual pages are called (as they seem to change!!!). > > thanks every1 very much for the help with this - we're showing a quick > look > at the new system to our Minister tomorrow morning and I'm going nuts (ok > that could have something to do with waaaay tooooo much coffee and > chocolate!) > From lemurs at extremezone.com Thu Aug 24 18:13:45 2000 From: lemurs at extremezone.com (the head lemur) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:13:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. References: <200008240344.UAA01025@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net><p04310101b5ca555c2e70@[64.229.68.60]> <v04220801b5cb0ad0e866@[209.213.133.55]> Message-ID: <001b01c00e21$c5062dc0$181df5cc@sigrid> > This is probably one reason I'm a problem. I'm really really old. I'm over 30. Yeah, I have thoughts and ideas. But when it comes to skills, I'm more than willing to be trained. youngsters!! From pbi at dircon.co.uk Thu Aug 24 18:33:46 2000 From: pbi at dircon.co.uk (Paul Bradforth) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:33:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <39A5768D.15534999@xuxygrafix.com> Message-ID: <200008242334.AAA58018@mailhost2.dircon.co.uk> On 24/8/00 at 3:25 pm, elisabeth at xuxygrafix.com (Elisabeth Heinicke) wrote: > hmmm ... that gives me, what?, another 8-10 years to be truly > decrepit? And I thought I was just starting out on a great new portion > of my life! Damn. Aah well, I'm only two years behind you, Elisabeth... <Photoshop tip> Option-click on the dividing line between two layers in the layers pallette, and the lower layer becomes a mask for the upper layer. Try it, to see what it can do. </Photoshop tip> best wishes, Paul http://www.paulbradforth.com http://pbi.freelancers.net XXII Group http://www.xxii.com From krr at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 24 18:45:50 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:45:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] CSS for tables.. References: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA61615A155@EXCHANGE> Message-ID: <005e01c00e26$7d314160$0200000a@pavilion> > <tip type="CSS browser support reference" author="marlene"> > An up-to-date CSS browser support chart, easy to understand (at least for > me, ymmv): > http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/index.html > </tip> Have a ton of resources for CSS but I didn't have anything that refered to IE 5.5 NN 6 webTV etc... thanx for posting krr From lwkraemer at earthlink.net Thu Aug 24 18:52:43 2000 From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (el.kay) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:52:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] age References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> Message-ID: <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> I just KNEW that was the problem! Hell, I'm almost 60. Does anyone know of a list for age 50+ enthusiastic devs? You know... a list that will forgive lapses in memory, foolish coding errors and dumb questions that when answered don't look like "see spot, see spot run..." to the rest of you younguns? Grey RULES! From lemurs at extremezone.com Thu Aug 24 19:18:18 2000 From: lemurs at extremezone.com (the head lemur) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:18:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] age References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> Message-ID: <006901c00e2a$ca1d3160$181df5cc@sigrid> who's spot? From aczechowski at towson.edu Thu Aug 24 19:34:29 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:34:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D934@exchange.towson.edu> i don't think my online resume is much to shout about (www.towson.edu/~aczech/resume.html), but I do occasionaly get calls or e-mails from recruiters asking to chat about "opportunities." i think lists like this (or back on monkeyjunkies) helped stir up some of that traffic.... I actually got an interview a year ago based solely upon my posts to MJ! aaron :) -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 9:40 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Online Resume I'm putting together an online resume and was wondering if I could ask you evolutians to post some URLs to your resumes so that I might get a feel for your organization. I build web sites every day for a living and I'm pretty sure I do fairly competent, easily navigable, web sites but this one has to be perfect (it's mine). And... Do any of you think that potential employees ever look at an online resume. Just wondering. jamie From sgd at ti3.com Thu Aug 24 19:43:17 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:43:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125A6@gate.ti3.com> well, there was a 'how old are you' thread over at dreamless (http://www.dreamless.org), and the average age equated to about 20 I think. --The thread has spawned a <20 vs >20 design contest, http://www.hardac.com/versus --and from the looks of it so far, its all flashers and script kiddies. someone like Adrian or iSac would probably kick their asses.... me? I'm 28. but sometimes I feel 32. (and I just spent too long over at http://praystation.com/ getting envy. ugh. I think I need a new direction.) sgd -- think safely > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik M. Sabowski [mailto:sabowski at wam.umd.edu] > over 30 is really really old? I would think something more > like over 65 is > really really old :) From isaac at triplezero.com.au Thu Aug 24 19:54:22 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:54:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <LOELLPJBCANPIBAEEFLFEEIODFAA.rwhite@edverify.com> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBKEAFDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > Do the * work here? Someone yesterday said they didn't and from the > multitudes of doubleclick entries you have it would seem they don't. i don't know - the majority of entries in my list were copypasted from a slashdot comment a couple of months back. i haven't bothered cleaning it up. isaac From aczechowski at towson.edu Thu Aug 24 20:46:09 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Thu Aug 24 20:46:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D935@exchange.towson.edu> > -----Original Message----- > From: Erika Meyer [mailto:erika at seastorm.com] > > The real issue, with me, is whether having thoughts and ideas > is an asset or a liability. Or whether I, as a human being, > am just going to be a poor substitute for a machine. > > Erika we're currently in the process of hiring some new folks (not web developers, but tech support, but the ideas are the same), and we're administering a technical evaluation. as i tell all of the candidates - it's not a quantitative exam; there is no right or wrong answer! It's more about HOW you get to the answer, how you solve the problem. not IF you can solve it. I'd like to think that some of these basic html tests have the same concept in mind. or rather, a simple weeding-out test, as others have already mentioned. we've had scores of candidates soar in the verbal interview, but sit them in front of a pc and ask them to configure the ip properties, and their eyes glaze over! so to play devil's advocate, just b/c they ask you to code a simple html table, don't take that to mean that that's what you'll be doing or be expected to code by hand. (unless they specifically, upfront say that). hth Aaron :) From aczechowski at towson.edu Thu Aug 24 20:52:36 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Thu Aug 24 20:52:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume Message-ID: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D936@exchange.towson.edu> > -----Original Message----- > From: martin burns [mailto:martin at members.evolt.org] > > mmmm - pdf. And downloadable Word/rtf. doh! do i sense a Simpson's reference? mmm... homer simpson....grlgrlgrlrgll.... <tip name="Acrobat versions"> if you create your pdfs with acrobat v4, make sure to make a note of this near your link to the pdf - there are some features of v4 that generate errors or just plain display worth crap in previous versions of reader. save your users the hassle of wondering why your document doesn't open or look right, and you the frustration of unnecessary support calls. <petpeeve> and stick in a cute lil' PDF icon or something!! i hate clicking on a link to a white paper or spec sheet and having to wait for the freakin' acrobat plugin to load! gimme options! </petpeeve> </tip> From aczechowski at towson.edu Thu Aug 24 20:58:28 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Thu Aug 24 20:58:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D937@exchange.towson.edu> let me load my gun here.... Cold Fusion vs Active Server Pages? We have two sides here - one screaming "CF!" the other chanting "ASP!" In a nutshell, they are more or less doing the same thing, right? Pros and cons? Have to pay extra for CF; ASP comes built-in to PWS/IIS - thus increasing the apps' resale value, yes? CF is tag-based; ASP is script-based. CF only really requires a good knowledge of HTML, whereas you need to know some VBScript to dive into ASP. Which is easier to learn? Any hidden dis/advantages to either? Server performance? Hung processes? Not playing well with the database? thanks Aaron :) From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Aug 24 21:12:57 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Aug 24 21:12:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D936@exchange.towson.edu> Message-ID: <200008250213.TAA22825@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Czechowski, Aaron > > if you create your pdfs with acrobat v4, make > sure to make a note of this > near your link to the pdf - there are some > features of v4 that generate > errors or just plain display worth crap in > previous versions of reader. [snip] you might wanna mentiond that Acrobat 4 gives you an option to save as Acrobat 3... kinda like saving for Flash 3... most of the time, the basic PDF is more than covered by 3.0's features, so it shouldn't impact anything... > and stick in a cute lil' PDF icon or something!! > i hate clicking on a link > to a white paper or spec sheet and having to wait > for the freakin' acrobat plugin to load! gimme options! fwiw, http://www.roselli.org/adrian/design/algonquin.asp (and other pages) has little icons as well as file sizes... too many sites with no warnings just peeved me off... From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Aug 24 21:13:59 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Aug 24 21:13:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D937@exchange.towson.edu> Message-ID: <200008250214.TAA26600@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Czechowski, Aaron > > Cold Fusion vs Active Server Pages? slugfest... > nutshell, they are more or less doing the same > thing, right? yes. > Pros and cons? Have to pay extra for CF; ASP > comes built-in to PWS/IIS - > thus increasing the apps' resale value, yes? CF > is tag-based; ASP is > script-based. CF only really requires a good > knowledge of HTML, whereas you > need to know some VBScript to dive into ASP. > Which is easier to learn? - you have to learn CFML to do CF... you have to learn VBScript/JavaScript/PerlScript/etc. (choose one) to use ASP... - CF runs on many platforms... so does ASP with things like ChileASP! - don't use PWS as a real web server... - using CF on NT, to me, is just adding another layer of extrapolation... i would just use ASP on NT... - NT comes with all the pitfalls we all know with MS products... but so does every other OS... - if you get NT server, you've got ASP... so, if you're on MSDN, do ASP... - evolt.org runs on CF... > Any hidden dis/advantages to either? Server > performance? Hung processes? > Not playing well with the database? depends on your staff... do you have VB talent in-house? maybe ASP w/ VBScript is a better option... prefer tag-based scripting? then perhaps CF... my reason for using ASP over CF is primarily because tag-based scripting screws me up... and as i've mentioned before, i've seen folks who think <CFIF> is HTML... other reasons include it being native on NT4+, and easy for me to pick up the VBScript with all the VB developers falling off the trees... ultimately, well-configured analogous sites will probably perform similarly... i've found ASP has better performance, but again, we're NT folks for the most part... From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Aug 24 21:19:19 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Aug 24 21:19:19 2000 Subject: [thelist] OT (verbage) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000824164351.00d63110@morgaine.bcr.com> Message-ID: <200008250219.TAA13245@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> reply below the tip... <tip type="dithering"> 3 ways to get a web-safe dither to mimic a non-web-safe color: 1. Use Fireworks' 'Web-Dither Fill' to find the two web-safe colors that make up that color, and let it make the fill for you. 2. Use ImageReady 2.0's 'Filter' > 'Other' > 'DitherBox'. 3. Don't have Fireworks or ImageReady? Try http://www.colormix.com/. The last two give you options beyond just two colors, and allow for some more complex patterns. I can't speak to Fireworks' capability on that since I don't have it. </tip> > From: Steve Maxey > > Just saying "Websters" doesn't tell us anything. > There are several > different dictionaries put out under the name > "Websters" from different > publishing houses and different lexicographers. Webster's Universal College Dictionary, New York, Random House, 1997. (can you tell i forgot how to write a bibliography?) > Besides which, a dictionary doesn't say anything > how a word "should" be > used. It merely records how it IS being used in > the language during the > period leading up to the dictionary's > publication. All your dictionary > tells us is that "impact" has been used as a > synonym for "affect" with > enough frequency that lexicographers felt this > use should be recorded. > > It's still a weasel word, and poor usage. umm... i'm just showing you what i saw... you can determine whether or not the definition is valid based on how you think it should be -- i know the feeling, i still think "ain't" shouldn't have made it into some dictionaries (mine doesn't have it)... i argue similar points about my pet peeve words, so i guess we all choose to write some words off... however, i thought you might find this interesting: http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=impact Usage Note: Each generation of critics seems to select one particular usage to stand as the emblem of what they view as linguistic crassness. Thirty years ago it was the use of contact as a verb, but opposition to that form has more or less disappeared, and attention now focuses on the verbal use of impact meaning ?have an effect, affect.? Eighty-four percent of the Usage Panel disapproves of the construction to impact on, as in the phrase social pathologies, common to the inner city, that impact heavily on such a community; and fully 95 percent disapproves of the use of impact as a transitive verb in the sentence Companies have used disposable techniques that have a potential for impacting our health. But even these figures do not reflect the degree of distaste with which critics view the usage: in their comments some Panelists labeled the usage as ?bureaucratic,? ?pretentious,? ?vile,? and ?a vulgarism.? ? It may be that the particular pretentiousness associated with the verbal use of impact is caused by its derivation from an already questionable metaphoric use of the noun impact, as in phrases such as the political impact of the decision or the impact of the program on the community, in which no more is usually meant than might have been expressed by effects or consequences. But though impact may have begun life a generation ago as an inflated substitute for ?affect significantly,? it has by now become so common in corporate and institutional contexts that younger speakers appear to regard it as wholly standard and straightforward usage. Within a few years, accordingly, the usage is likely to be no more objectionable than contact is now, since it will no longer betray any particular pretentiousness on the part of those who use it. See Usage Note at contact. Word History: The often criticized use of impact, as in the passage ?social pathologies, common to the inner city, that impact heavily on such a community,? illustrates how one part of speech can have an impact on another part of speech spelled the same way. The usage also reflects the role played by science in the formation of new senses of words. The noun impact comes from the past participle impctus of the Latin verb impingere, which means ?to bring into violent contact,? ?to drive persons or other creatures onto or against,? and ?to fix, fasten onto.? Our noun, first recorded in 1781, derived its sense from the ?contact? sense of impingere. First recorded in a scientific context having to do with the collision of bodies, it was much used in scientific contexts and later, in the 19th century, took on a figurative sense, ?the effect of one thing upon another.? The verb impact, on the other hand, also coming from Latin impctus, is found much earlier than the noun, that is, it is first recorded in 1601, deriving its sense from the ?driving? and ?fixing? senses of impingere and meaning ?to press closely into something, pack in.? This old sense is still with us, but the later noun had an influence on the verb, giving us senses such as ?to strike forcefully? and ?to have an effect.? Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright ? 1996, 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. From djc at five2one.org Thu Aug 24 21:30:21 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Aug 24 21:30:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D937@exchange.towson.edu> Message-ID: <39A5DECD.6060808@five2one.org> Czechowski, Aaron wrote: > > Pros and cons? Have to pay extra for CF; ASP comes built-in to PWS/IIS - > You have to pay for CF yes. You also have to pay for ASP, which a lot of people don't realize. If you go with ASP, your cost comes from having to purchase an NT server license. Thats some cash right there. Also, with Win2k, you have to plunk down ~2000 bux0rz for an 'internet connector license' if you plan to use your ASP apps outside an intranet. Conversly, although the CF app server does cost money, you can run it on a free operating system with a free DB(such as mSQL, mySQL, or Postgres), making your TCO lower over the long term.. > thus increasing the apps' resale value, yes? CF is tag-based; ASP is > script-based. CF only really requires a good knowledge of HTML, whereas you > need to know some VBScript to dive into ASP. Which is easier to learn > peronsally, I'd say if you're coming from a pure HTML background(and adrian will disagree here :) CF is easier to pick up. If you're coming from a VBscript/MS background, ASP will feel better to you. > Any hidden dis/advantages to either? Server performance? Hung processes? > Not playing well with the database? > they're both pretty even as far as performance. IMHO, CF has an advantage because it runs on more robust and scaleable operating systems like Solaris, HP-UX, and Linux. With ASP you're limited to NT(more or less) and the advantages/disadvatages of that platform.. Sorry if the formatting is hosed with this.. posting with a custom M18 build of mozilla :) .djc. From sgd at ti3.com Thu Aug 24 22:43:53 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu Aug 24 22:43:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] IIS and ftp clients Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125AB@gate.ti3.com> first, do you have the ftp service running? That needs to be set up, and either must allow anonymous access or you publish the userid/password in the url: ftp://username:password at ftp.yourcompany.com/ Also keep in mind that ftp through the browser is get only. In order for your client to put files to your ftp server they must use an ftp program. Hope this helps, please feel free to provide additional info if you'd like specific help-- sgd -- think safely > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Shafer [mailto:ervsplace at hotmail.com] > I was curious if anyone could point me to some info on how to > set up IIS/ftp > to > allow browser access? Our company does not have browser > access to it's ftp > site but our customer always complain that they can access > other ftp sites > with > netscape. > From isaac at triplezero.com.au Thu Aug 24 22:49:52 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Thu Aug 24 22:49:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <39A5DECD.6060808@five2one.org> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEAIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > peronsally, I'd say if you're coming from a pure HTML background > CF is easier to pick up. imo, mindblowingly easier. if you're using a decent text editor with colour-coding, then you'll have absolutely no problems spotting what's CF and what's HTML. by default, cfstudio for example is set to show CF code in a very obvious red. that keeps it distinct from HTML which has elements coded in various shades of purple, green, blue, etc. also, all CF tags begin with "CF". afaik, zero HTML tags begin with "CF". if you have developers that can't pick up that difference in their first attempt at coding, i'd find new developers... look around the net and you'll find a number of comparisons using cf vs asp to compare the code required to achieve certain tasks. the cf examples are nearly always much smaller. if you need to build powerful apps quickly, then i'd go with cf. allaire don't call it 'rapid application development' for nothing. just thoughts from someone who's not used ASP (but seen the ugly code), and taught themselves CF from the docs, isaac From jeff at c4webdesign.com Thu Aug 24 22:54:42 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Thu Aug 24 22:54:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] IIS and ftp clients References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125AB@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <05ae01c00e47$c404f520$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> sgd, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Scott Dexter <sgd at ti3.com> : : Also keep in mind that ftp through the browser : is get only. In order for your client to put files to : your ftp server they must use an ftp program. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ maybe for most browsers, but not as far as ie5/win98 is concerned. it's a full-featured ftp client. acts just like local files. get, put, delete, rename, etc. good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From isaac at triplezero.com.au Thu Aug 24 23:24:20 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Thu Aug 24 23:24:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] css - margin-right property In-Reply-To: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAIEIICAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBGEAJDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > aligned. In IE the image goes right to the edge of the browser window. In > Netscape it does not. I presume the only way to do this is with css. haven't looked at URL. guessing. netscape leaves space for a vertical scrollbar (even if it doesn't need it). there's no way around it (except for using an invisible frame, but i wouldn't bother). IE just inserts a faded scrollbar. try shrinking your browser window vertically so that a v.scrollbar appears in netscape. is the image now up against the edge as you wanted? isaac From krr at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 24 23:59:11 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Thu Aug 24 23:59:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D937@exchange.towson.edu> Message-ID: <001401c00e52$432b6b40$0200000a@pavilion> Would like to add this question to those all ready posted and that is?? Where do you place, rate, score PHP. I glanced at ASP and balked when I realized I would have to learn basic VB before I even stated. CF requires that you know HTML "no big deal" but it also requires that you learn the software inside and out to take full advantage of it. Question on CF: How does it perform compared to the other languages in speed and flexibility?? ASP CF PHP etc... I ask this with a slant towards the WYSIWYG interface "editors". It is common knowledge that they can easily double and triple the size of a page. Not to mention that they don't have near the capability or flexibility of hand coding. Is this the case when dealing with Cold Fusion?? I took a course an intro to C programming and plan to finish the course after taking the server and client side programming that is offered BUT.. Having only taken the intro course PHP looks like it leeds the pack in being easy to digest and being user friendly . With just this course I was able to understand most everything without a second glance. It also has a few functions that actually make it easier to use than C. I just finished going thru the appendix of the book. Sorting thru the various functions and what not they look fairly easy to use. With the only the introductory knowledge of C programming I understand all of the syntax and useage for them. When all is said and done I plan to have several languages under my belt but for now it looks like PHP is the only card to play until I have time to learn more programming languages. Well I guess I sorta wondered abit on the subject, but I would appreciate any input that you can offer. thanx krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Czechowski, Aaron" <aczechowski at towson.edu> To: "Thelist (E-mail)" <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 6:58 PM Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp > let me load my gun here.... > > Cold Fusion vs Active Server Pages? > > We have two sides here - one screaming "CF!" the other chanting "ASP!" In a > nutshell, they are more or less doing the same thing, right? > > Pros and cons? Have to pay extra for CF; ASP comes built-in to PWS/IIS - > thus increasing the apps' resale value, yes? CF is tag-based; ASP is > script-based. CF only really requires a good knowledge of HTML, whereas you > need to know some VBScript to dive into ASP. Which is easier to learn? > > Any hidden dis/advantages to either? Server performance? Hung processes? > Not playing well with the database? > > thanks > > Aaron :) > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From erika at seastorm.com Fri Aug 25 01:09:38 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Fri Aug 25 01:09:38 2000 Subject: [thelist] age In-Reply-To: <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> Message-ID: <v04220800b5cb6838928d@[209.213.133.94]> >Hell, I'm almost 60. Does anyone know of a list for age 50+ enthusiastic >devs? Evolt. >You know... a list that will forgive lapses in memory, foolish coding >errors and dumb questions that when answered don't look like "see spot, see >spot run..." to the rest of you younguns? I'm so glad that there is such a diversity of ages on this list. At least two twenty-five year olds have told me they are getting "old" for the industry. Is Mick Jagger too old to rock n' roll? I honestly think that age and experience leads to skills and personality traits that are hard to quantify, but valuable in both work and life. I also think this is often missed by potential employers. >me? I'm 28. but sometimes I feel 32 I'm 32. but sometimes I feel 28. Erika <tip type="information architecture" author="erika"> If you get to do IA with a client: - start general, with goals & audience. - in the early stages, encourage brainstorming, sketching, clustering, creative and off-the-wall ideas. after that, refine. - make sure everyone who is involved in final decisions is also involved in the IA process. No uninformed executive decisions! - WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING - this process can be frustratingly slow for the client who wanted a site yesterday. Patience and education, and perhaps a cautionary tale or two, are key. </tip> erika at seastorm.com From peter at genps.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 01:54:10 2000 From: peter at genps.demon.co.uk (Peter Small) Date: Fri Aug 25 01:54:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts In-Reply-To: <39A5768D.15534999@xuxygrafix.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> What I'm trying to figure out is how practical it is to spread a site between different hosts (It's when I start to think about things like this that I realise what enormous knowledge gaps I have). Here is the problem: I cannot find a host that can cater for all of my needs. However, I can cover all the needs by using several different hosts and running different pages of my site on the host servers where specific facilities are needed (note: multiple hosting costs are not a consideration here). Resut: links between different parts of the site switch between not only pages but also different host servers. It's when I try to think about what time penalties or other problems might occur that my lack of knowledge is exposed. For example, does the initial connection to a site hold that connection open so that all further requests to that server are dealt with faster than the initial connection? A link from one page on a site to another page on the same site and same server can link simply by referencing the file name if the new file (page) is in the same directory. Is this faster than if the link referenced the full URL? Similarly. If a link to another page in the same directory of the same server is referenced by the full URL, is the link appreciably faster than if the link took you to a page on a different server. In short, how much of a penalty is there if I spread the pages of a site around several different host servers? What is the best way to think about this kind of network/logistics problem? peter http://www.avatarnets.com From madhu at asiacontent.com Fri Aug 25 02:39:30 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Fri Aug 25 02:39:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cookie Ads and Tracking In-Reply-To: <20000825021920.403F5A913A@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000825122136.00bb6590@203.197.60.113> At 07:49 AM 8/25/00, you wrote: >i don't know - the majority of entries in my list were copypasted from a >slashdot comment a couple of months back. i haven't bothered cleaning it up. I have a BIG hosts file that contains the domains, subdomains of just about every known ad network on the planet. You can find the file at: http://accs-net.com/hosts Don't say I didn't warn you. It's BIG. I would advise you to edit this file, however, to remove the mappings for the various Akamai servers. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From Anthony at Baratta.com Fri Aug 25 03:09:55 2000 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Fri Aug 25 03:09:55 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <39A62A1A.A4DC6272@Baratta.com> Peter Small wrote: > > Resut: links between different parts of the site switch between not only > pages but also different host servers. > > It's when I try to think about what time penalties or other problems might > occur that my lack of knowledge is exposed. For example, does the initial > connection to a site hold that connection open so that all further requests > to that server are dealt with faster than the initial connection? Short answer: No - HTML is stateless, there are no open connections for the next page request. > A link from one page on a site to another page on the same site and same > server can link simply by referencing the file name if the new file (page) > is in the same directory. Is this faster than if the link referenced the > full URL? Short answer: No. The browser has to resolve the URL to a full hostname anyway. > Similarly. If a link to another page in the same directory of the same > server is referenced by the full URL, is the link appreciably faster than > if the link took you to a page on a different server. Short answer: (See last answer. To save you eyeball time - no. ;-) > In short, how much of a penalty is there if I spread the pages of a site > around several different host servers? What is the best way to think about > this kind of network/logistics problem? Long answer: Internet bottlenecks, packet storms, local and remote bandwith and general traffic patterns can vary the performance of serving pages via your different hosts. Making the 'farther' away server seem faster than a local server. If you are unconcerned about hosting fees - why not co-lo or lease your own server and put all your tools there? -- Anthony Baratta President KeyBoard Jockeys South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!! http://www.baratta.com/southpark Powered by Tsunami From martin at members.evolt.org Fri Aug 25 04:14:18 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Fri Aug 25 04:14:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] Online Resume In-Reply-To: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D936@exchange.towson.edu > Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000825101357.00bd38d0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 02:52 25/08/00, Czechowski, Aaron wrote: > > mmmm - pdf. And downloadable Word/rtf. > >doh! do i sense a Simpson's reference? > >mmm... homer simpson....grlgrlgrlrgll.... Hey don't knock it - went to see a production of MacBeth as performed by the Simpsons the other week ("Is this a dagger I see before me... or a pizza? D'oh!) Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 PGP fingerprint: A9B9 101F 55F9 40BE 5E00 98E7 71E8 1E70 A835 CCCB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOaY5DnHoHnCoNczLEQKS4ACfaaMOE2PmoSbtX4Re5RNdlEPxCwsAoN3Y UPs16JOIh7HclfrPPw/wM6sX =wMew -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From keni at barwick.net Fri Aug 25 04:15:40 2000 From: keni at barwick.net (Keni Barwick) Date: Fri Aug 25 04:15:40 2000 Subject: [thelist] IE problem on W95 Message-ID: <20000825091540.F1B70A900A@lists.evolt.org> Has anyone herd of there browser automatically going to www.gohip.com even after you have asked it to NOT use a home page? If so how do you stop it, It is really annoying, to say the least. Keni From Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk Fri Aug 25 05:36:44 2000 From: Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk (Zoe.Oughton at chi.nhs.uk) Date: Fri Aug 25 05:36:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] RE: HTML test (tip): The other side. Message-ID: <OFD9519F29.3C8227B5-ON80256946.0039DA1A@chi.nhs.uk> Hi Erika > This is probably one reason I'm a problem. I'm really really old. > I'm over 30. Blimy, what does that make me then!! Cos I'm older than you, and I have just got a new job in web design. The only test I had at my interview was one of these personality test things! (and this is the UK, not the US). They looked at the URLs I had provided and they were obviously happy with them. I don't think that age will necessarily go against you, some places look for the more 'mature', rather than the 'wippersnapper'. Life experience can be quite a good attribute!! Don't give up. It is obvious you have some very good skills - I for one always check your messages on the list because I can usually learn something new from you. And I have been in this game for a few years!! > There are a variety of reasons I'm not actively seeking independent > freelance work right now, but ultimately, yeah, I'd rather be running > the show than playing a bit part." Yes, it can be difficult to suddenly become an independent freelancer, which is why I am not - I rely too much on my regular income. Zo? Oughton ****************************************************************************** Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of the Commission for Health Improvement. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please check for viruses before accessing attachments. Although we endeavour to keep files clean we can take no responsibility for any damage caused by contagion. ****************************************************************************** From dante at vianet.net.au Fri Aug 25 06:01:46 2000 From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante) Date: Fri Aug 25 06:01:46 2000 Subject: [thelist] age References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> Message-ID: <01b001c00e84$3c6b22a0$fd01a8c0@dante> 60 isn't that old any more. Consider that the way technology is advancing, you'll prob'ly be around for another 40-50 years. & if they perfect nanotech & quantum computers in that time who know how long you could live :) dante <snip author="el.kay" url="lwkraemer at earthlink.net"> > Hell, I'm almost 60. Does anyone know of a list for age 50+ enthusiastic > devs? You know... a list that will forgive lapses in memory, foolish coding > errors and dumb questions that when answered don't look like "see spot, see > spot run..." to the rest of you younguns? > > Grey RULES! </snip> From peter at vardus.com Fri Aug 25 06:04:39 2000 From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Fri Aug 25 06:04:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] zope In-Reply-To: <OFD9519F29.3C8227B5-ON80256946.0039DA1A@chi.nhs.uk> Message-ID: <4.3.2.20000825115642.023c4820@smtp.vardus.net> Hi all, I've been looking into Zope (zope.org) Does anyone have an idea of how it compares to Allaire's spectra? Does anyone have experience with it (good or bad)? It seems to have a pretty steep learning curve and I can't be bothered if it is going to limit me somehow. It was build for news sites, I wonder how good it is for sites where you want to add lots of little scripts yourself. I also wonder how easy it is to integrate PHP scripts with it. Peter From peter at vardus.com Fri Aug 25 07:06:54 2000 From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Fri Aug 25 07:06:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] Age. Was: HTML test (tip): The other side. In-Reply-To: <200008241837.OAA13656@server5000.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.20000825130524.023a5db0@smtp.vardus.net> >But dangit, 31 is NOT old! 30 is the new 20 man. Think about it, being 30 has never been this cool. When I was a kid 30 was old! Now that I think about it, 14 is the new 18, too. Peter <tip> zope.org </tip> From gsd at mac.com Fri Aug 25 07:34:45 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Fri Aug 25 07:34:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] zope In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20000825115642.023c4820@smtp.vardus.net> Message-ID: <B5CC972B.14B82%gsd@mac.com> Here's a thread on that question at DevShed http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Zope/Intro/comments.html/c4198/ another thread on Zope vs PHP (and Midgard) http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Zope/Intro/comments.html/c1117/ good comp of php and zope <wrap> http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists/zope-archive.nsf/47ba74c812dbc5dd8025687 f0024bb5f/72a0bf52788b839f802568aa001ec64f?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,PHP </wrap> useful examination of spectra's strengths http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/011576.html some criticism of spectra http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/1999-September/011589.html on using PHP and Perl inside Zope http://www.zope.org/Members/Mamey/PHP <wrap> http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists/zope-archive.nsf/47ba74c812dbc5dd8025687 f0024bb5f/179e21a385dbc69e802568ab005fc80a?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,PHP </wrap> hth Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ Thinking men cannot be ruled. --Ayn Rand > Does anyone have an idea of how it compares to Allaire's spectra? > Does anyone have experience with it (good or bad)? It seems to have a > pretty steep learning curve and I can't be bothered if it is going to limit > me somehow. It was build for news sites, I wonder how good it is for sites > where you want to add lots of little scripts yourself. I also wonder how > easy it is to integrate PHP scripts with it. From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 08:08:54 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 08:08:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEAIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <200008251309.GAA16837@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Isaac Forman > > > peronsally, I'd say if you're coming from a > > pure HTML background CF is easier to pick up. now this i disagree with... with the burning passion of a thousand suns... ok, maybe not that much... but i was coming from a pure HTML background, and i had used a couple tag-based languages before... i've seen horrible things (note my <CFIF> as html comment in my last post)... but i visually parse for my script... looking for <CF...>, to me, is harder than looking for <% ... %> throughout the page... you may find people in organization who agree... you may find people who don't... > imo, mindblowingly easier. if you're using a > decent text editor with > colour-coding, then you'll have absolutely no > problems spotting what's CF and > what's HTML. by default, cfstudio for example is same for any ASP or any other language... color-coding will definitely help anyone with either language... too bad i end up using notepad for everything and only fire up Notetab for more robust tasks... at that point, yes, looking for the tag as opposed to the color is better... but i can't tell you how many times i've been at a client side and had only ntoepad or simpletext with which to fix code... > also, all CF tags begin with "CF". afaik, zero > HTML tags begin with "CF". if you > have developers that can't pick up that > difference in their first attempt at > coding, i'd find new developers... i wouldn't... again, for me it's easier to see the <%..%> over the <CF..>... part of it is the *shape*, since i don't have to look for letters (and we all know caps are harder to read), and the ending %> of each tag makes it easy to find where my script blocks end as well... with CF it's lots of independent <CF..><CF...> tags everywhere... harder for me to see the script 'block' as whole... if your developers get confused, it doesn't mean they're bad, it might mean that they need better training to know their HTML and understand the differences between server- side and client-side... > look around the net and you'll find a number of > comparisons using cf vs asp to > compare the code required to achieve certain > tasks. the cf examples are nearly > always much smaller. if you need to build > powerful apps quickly, then i'd go > with cf. allaire don't call it 'rapid application > development' for nothing. the CF examples are smaller because CF has added a layer of extrapolation... ASP is closer to the system, and as such, requires more code to open up DB connections and such... but it doesn't have to run it through a CF parser everytime to create the DB calls for you... again, if you have in-house VB talent, this is a huge selling point... code re-use becomes very likely, and simple functions can be written to help those folks who aren't comfortable with the ASP script needed to handle some stuff... > just thoughts from someone who's not used ASP > (but seen the ugly code), and > taught themselves CF from the docs, thoughts back from someone who's used CF (and seen the bizarre code) and taught himself ASP from examples... From peter at genps.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 08:52:24 2000 From: peter at genps.demon.co.uk (Peter Small) Date: Fri Aug 25 08:52:24 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts In-Reply-To: <39A62A1A.A4DC6272@Baratta.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <v04003a01b5cc2659ff0d@[158.152.26.28]> Thanks Anthony for your response. The implications of this are very interesting. If I may, I'd like to extend this thought to the components of a Web page. (1) Ignoring the different speeds of response between different servers through traffic etc,would there be a time penalty if a page were designed to have ten gifs with each of the gifs located on a different servers (i.e. ten gifs and eleven servers)? (2) Would there be a time penalty if items included in a Web page were accessed from several different databases on different servers from that holding the Web page (assuming all the databases were equally fast) (3) If a cgi script updated the visitor counter on a Web page, would there be a time penalty if that cgi script was on another server? Note: different servers means servers at widely separated locations. peter http://www.avatarnets.com >Peter Small wrote: >> >> Resut: links between different parts of the site switch between not only >> pages but also different host servers. >> >> It's when I try to think about what time penalties or other problems might >> occur that my lack of knowledge is exposed. For example, does the initial >> connection to a site hold that connection open so that all further requests >> to that server are dealt with faster than the initial connection? > >Short answer: No - HTML is stateless, there are no open connections for >the next page >request. > >> A link from one page on a site to another page on the same site and same >> server can link simply by referencing the file name if the new file (page) >> is in the same directory. Is this faster than if the link referenced the >> full URL? > >Short answer: No. The browser has to resolve the URL to a full hostname >anyway. > >> Similarly. If a link to another page in the same directory of the same >> server is referenced by the full URL, is the link appreciably faster than >> if the link took you to a page on a different server. > >Short answer: (See last answer. To save you eyeball time - no. ;-) > >> In short, how much of a penalty is there if I spread the pages of a site >> around several different host servers? What is the best way to think about >> this kind of network/logistics problem? > >Long answer: Internet bottlenecks, packet storms, local and remote >bandwith and >general traffic patterns can vary the performance of serving pages via >your different >hosts. Making the 'farther' away server seem faster than a local server. > >If you are unconcerned about hosting fees - why not co-lo or lease your >own server >and put all your tools there? > >-- >Anthony Baratta >President >KeyBoard Jockeys > South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!! > http://www.baratta.com/southpark > Powered by Tsunami > > >--------------------------------------- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu Fri Aug 25 09:22:33 2000 From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon) Date: Fri Aug 25 09:22:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? Message-ID: <39A68179.85B7E8EA@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Dear evolta, I will be writing a CF application and I'm afraid the database may have to be quite large with a lot of tables. I'm also going to have to query a lot of tables at once for some of those pages. Is there a recommended limit before server performance gets compromised? Thanks. </ml> From apatrick at oracular.com Fri Aug 25 09:23:52 2000 From: apatrick at oracular.com (Adam Patrick) Date: Fri Aug 25 09:23:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D937@exchange.towson.edu> Message-ID: <39A683B1.5342F74@oracular.com> > Any hidden dis/advantages to either? Server performance? Hung processes? > Not playing well with the database? - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. For instance in order to execute winzip (or any program) with ASP, I had to get a 3rd-party DLL. CF has that built in. There are a number of other things like this that CF includes that ASP requires 3rd-party DLLs for so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. - ASP requires more steps to do certain things. For instance, execute a query. In ASP you have to open a connection, prepare the SQL, then execute it, then close the connection. Whereas in CF, you just use <cfquery> and the app. server does the details. - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. _______________________________________________________________ Get your Private, Free FarmDance at http://farmer.oracular.com/ From sbienek at acep.org Fri Aug 25 09:34:10 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Fri Aug 25 09:34:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE04B7@SERVER04> Hi ML, You're only limited by your imagination.. Er.. And the database platform you use. Generally, CF can handle whatever you want to throw at it, data-wise.. Get a good DB (such as Oracle or SQL server) and you should be just fine. Regards, Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Minh Lee Goon > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:24 AM > To: evolt > Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? > > > Dear evolta, > I will be writing a CF application and I'm afraid the > database may have > to be quite large with a lot of tables. I'm also going to > have to query > a lot of tables at once for some of those pages. Is there a > recommended > limit before server performance gets compromised? Thanks. > > </ml> > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From apatrick at oracular.com Fri Aug 25 09:44:22 2000 From: apatrick at oracular.com (Adam Patrick) Date: Fri Aug 25 09:44:22 2000 Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? References: <39A68179.85B7E8EA@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> Message-ID: <39A6887F.C880ED62@oracular.com> > Dear evolta, > I will be writing a CF application and I'm afraid the database may have > to be quite large with a lot of tables. I'm also going to have to query > a lot of tables at once for some of those pages. Is there a recommended > limit before server performance gets compromised? Thanks. In general, I think databases can handle much more than most web apps throw at them. If you do run into performance problems there are some easy ways to help the database out by tuning your queries and strategically placing indexes. (I'm writing an article about these important things that we all need to learn more about) If you would like to tune further, there are other things you can explore. For instance, is this going to be a transaction processing app or a read only app. If it's read only data, you might think about de-normalizing it. This will remove some of your multiple queries and some of your joins. (In my experience, joins and multiple queries cost you only a little if they are written properly so in a low/medium load situation it's a moot point) _______________________________________________________________ Get your Private, Free FarmDance at http://farmer.oracular.com/ From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 09:45:30 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 09:45:30 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <39A683B1.5342F74@oracular.com> Message-ID: <200008251445.HAA13715@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> > From:Adam Patrick <apatrick at oracular.com> > > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. For instance > in order to execute winzip (or any program) with ASP, I had to get a > 3rd-party DLL. CF has that built in. There are a number of other > things like this that CF includes that ASP requires 3rd-party DLLs for > so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. this is very true... however, assuming you have the VB talent in- house, this is a very simple DLL to write... and there are a number of places you can get a free DLL to do it... what is key is that most shared NT hosts won't allow you to install any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a lot of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload script that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need to install anything)... but if you control the server, this is certainly not an issue... also, NT's native FTP support sucks, so you'd need to grab a third- party tool in case you plan to use FTP heavily... this is assuming you'd run either CF or ASP on NT... > - ASP requires more steps to do certain things. For instance, execute > a query. In ASP you have to open a connection, prepare the SQL, then > execute it, then close the connection. Whereas in CF, you just use > <cfquery> and the app. server does the details. like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you need more code to do it in ASP, but it's all VB code you may have sitting around... > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for example)... either way, if you have in-house NT and VB skills, try ASP, you've probably already got it installed on a development server... if it doesn't work out, get CF... if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close enough... From djc at five2one.org Fri Aug 25 10:05:11 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:05:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here Message-ID: <39A6828B.740C2E5D@five2one.org> Hi gang - Working on some syndication things and started playing around with some XML feeds for the evolt site. I'm not really 'in the know' too much with XML to say the least. Are there any validators for XML(that might be a dumb question)? I've written something up at http://test.evolt.org/xml/xml_new.cfm that generates our front page in an XML'ish format. Could anyone with some knowledge of XML have a gander and tell me if that looks ok, or if i'm in left field? Thanx! .djc. From Anthony at Baratta.com Fri Aug 25 10:08:03 2000 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:08:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> <v04003a01b5cc2659ff0d@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <39A68B32.87D571EB@Baratta.com> Peter Small wrote: > > Thanks Anthony for your response. > > The implications of this are very interesting. If I may, I'd like to extend > this thought to the components of a Web page. > > (1) > Ignoring the different speeds of response between different servers through > traffic etc,would there be a time penalty if a page were designed to have > ten gifs with each of the gifs located on a different servers (i.e. ten > gifs and eleven servers)? Remember that a web browser can only communicate so many different streams at once. I see a definite lag on the large commercial sites when the ads (which are being served by multiple ad servers) are loading. I think Netscape only uses 4-5 streams. So with 10 servers to communicate with to build one page, I would think that this 'dispersed' page would be slower than communicating with one single page. Especially since the client would have the choke point on bandwidth - don't forget broadband is not a reality for 95% of the world. > (2) > Would there be a time penalty if items included in a Web page were accessed > from several different databases on different servers from that holding the > Web page (assuming all the databases were equally fast) Depends who's doing the communicating. If the target web server is calling all the other databases, I would think there is a slight performance hit to build up those separate DB connections (ther are not "cheap" to perform) - but if you were doing several large CPU intensive queries, using several servers with one query each "should" be faster than one server with all the queries. But this assumes that you can do all the queries "at once". Most programs are serial, not asyncronous. Which means that using different servers would not be any an faster since you have to communicate with them one at a time, gaining none of the parallel query benefits. If the browser is doing the communicating we are back to the client limitation in question one. > (3) If a cgi script updated the visitor counter on a Web page, would there > be a time penalty if that cgi script was on another server? > Many free counters and web stats programs use this method. Theoretically, there should be no penalty, except for the slight hit the first time to resolve the other server URL. DoubleClick and all the other ad companies use this method, so the performance hit on average can't be that bad. ;-) -- Anthony Baratta President KeyBoard Jockeys South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!! http://www.baratta.com/southpark Powered by Tsunami From hblair at bigfoot.com Fri Aug 25 10:12:05 2000 From: hblair at bigfoot.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:12:05 2000 Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here In-Reply-To: <39A6828B.740C2E5D@five2one.org> Message-ID: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJEEPDHFAA.hblair@bigfoot.com> This is all that shows in IE5.01: ----------------------- Netscape Themes Contest ]]> Kansas City Internet designer ]]> Kansas City Internet developer ]]> job openings - north of boston ]]> Web Accessibility Evaluators Needed ]]> Netscape 6 preview release 2 available ]]> Mozilla M17 released ]]> SOCOG hearing over inaccessible Web site ]]> web engineer position in Oakland, CA ]]> REBOL: The Official Guide ]]> Stylish DHTML programmers ]]> How to let users add formatting. ]]> Netscape Communicator 4.74 Released ]]> New navigation and usability ideas. ]]> Getting Fresh With Your Content ]]> ----------------------- Just that at the top of the page. Hmmmm. -Hugh > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:28 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here > > > Hi gang - > > Working on some syndication things and started playing around with some > XML feeds for the evolt site. I'm not really 'in the know' too much with > XML to say the least. > > Are there any validators for XML(that might be a dumb question)? I've > written something up at http://test.evolt.org/xml/xml_new.cfm that > generates our front page in an XML'ish format. Could anyone with some > knowledge of XML have a gander and tell me if that looks ok, or if i'm > in left field? > > Thanx! > > .djc. > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From sbienek at acep.org Fri Aug 25 10:16:03 2000 From: sbienek at acep.org (Seth Bienek - Web Consultant) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:16:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE04B8@SERVER04> I usually try to steer clear of Holy wars, but I've been watching this thread with much interest and I have to much to include to let it slip by.. > any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a > lot of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload > script that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need <cffile action="upload"> +1 for CF. :) > like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of > extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you This one has me curious. CF Server interfaces with the webserver's API, in MS's case, ISAPI, in exactly the same manner as ASP. I cannot see how this adds an extra layer of extrapolation. If I am incorrect, please set me straight, but I am thinking that this statement may be incorrect. > you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for > example)... +1 for ASP. To connect to MS Jet databases with ColdFusion, an ODBC datasource must be set up on the CF Server. With ASP it's possible to just upload and go; with CF, if you don't have admin access on the server then you could have to wait on someone to set up the Datasource. > if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... > the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close enough... I don't know if I completely agree with this. I would say that if you have in-house talent, or if you have a background in OOP development, or if you are an all-MS shop, then ASP may be for you. If you are new to developing web applications, ColdFusion has a much, much better learning curve. Many complex functions are already built into the language, but it has the power to extend far beyond pre-built functions as well, for in the future when you decide to become a CF Jedi Master. :) The next generation of CF server will also be written entirely in Java, so it will run on nearly any platform out there. The language (CFML) will also integrate with Java-based technologies (such as jsp), so you will be able to write your CF in a number of formats, or if you want, start developing in Java altogether down the road, when your grasp of programming skills is stronger. It isn't my intention to trash ASP here. I'm a ColdFusion developer, and as such I haven't focused a great deal on ASP's features and benefits. There is a comparison of the two online at: http://www.swynk.com/friends/murphy/articles.asp It's by a CF developer, so it may be slanted. I'd be interested in seeing an actual, unbiased comparisson of the two.. Just my 2 drachmas, Seth ------------------------------------ Seth Bienek Independent ColdFusion Developer > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of aardvark > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:45 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] cf vs asp > > > > From:Adam Patrick <apatrick at oracular.com> > > > > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. > For instance > > in order to execute winzip (or any program) with ASP, I had to get a > > 3rd-party DLL. CF has that built in. There are a number of other > > things like this that CF includes that ASP requires > 3rd-party DLLs for > > so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. > > this is very true... however, assuming you have the VB talent in- > house, this is a very simple DLL to write... and there are a number > of places you can get a free DLL to do it... > > what is key is that most shared NT hosts won't allow you to install > any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a > lot of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload > script that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need > to install anything)... but if you control the server, this > is certainly > not an issue... > > also, NT's native FTP support sucks, so you'd need to grab a third- > party tool in case you plan to use FTP heavily... this is assuming > you'd run either CF or ASP on NT... > > > - ASP requires more steps to do certain things. For > instance, execute > > a query. In ASP you have to open a connection, prepare the > SQL, then > > execute it, then close the connection. Whereas in CF, you just use > > <cfquery> and the app. server does the details. > > like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of > extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you > need more code to do it in ASP, but it's all VB code you may have > sitting around... > > > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. > > you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for > example)... > > either way, if you have in-house NT and VB skills, try ASP, you've > probably already got it installed on a development server... if it > doesn't work out, get CF... > > if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... > the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close enough... > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 10:26:44 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:26:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B1@gate.ti3.com> > It's when I try to think about what time penalties or other > problems might > occur that my lack of knowledge is exposed. For example, does > the initial > connection to a site hold that connection open so that all > further requests > to that server are dealt with faster than the initial connection? No. The connection is open for the length of time it takes to download the page. Then closed. subsequent connections incur the same overhead. Remember http is stateless... > > A link from one page on a site to another page on the same > site and same > server can link simply by referencing the file name if the > new file (page) > is in the same directory. Is this faster than if the link > referenced the > full URL? The browser converts relative links to full URL's internally; there is effectively no difference here. > > Similarly. If a link to another page in the same directory of the same > server is referenced by the full URL, is the link appreciably > faster than > if the link took you to a page on a different server. The only difference you may experience is between the two servers holistically; for example if one portion of the site is hosted on a T3 and the other on an ISDN, there are inherent latencies regardless of the content. > In short, how much of a penalty is there if I spread the > pages of a site > around several different host servers? What is the best way > to think about > this kind of network/logistics problem? The only problems you may encounter is the wonderful spaghetti of linking between the two (and keeping them in check), but do the research to keep the hosts equivalent with respect to bandwidth available. Other than that, rock on-- sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From james at designframe.com Fri Aug 25 10:38:18 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:38:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here In-Reply-To: <39A6828B.740C2E5D@five2one.org> Message-ID: <B5CC0B02.16D24%james@designframe.com> on 8/25/00 10:28 AM, Daniel J. Cody at djc at five2one.org wrote: > Working on some syndication things and started playing around with some > XML feeds for the evolt site. I'm not really 'in the know' too much with > XML to say the least. > > Are there any validators for XML(that might be a dumb question)? I've > written something up at http://test.evolt.org/xml/xml_new.cfm that > generates our front page in an XML'ish format. Could anyone with some > knowledge of XML have a gander and tell me if that looks ok, or if i'm > in left field? it validates fine. Why are you using cdata? IMHO it woulds be much more useful if the a tags parsed as well ... Have you looked at RSS, or the <scriptingNews> format? James. From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 10:38:31 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:38:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B2@gate.ti3.com> > (1) > Ignoring the different speeds of response between different > servers through > traffic etc,would there be a time penalty if a page were > designed to have > ten gifs with each of the gifs located on a different servers > (i.e. ten > gifs and eleven servers)? ignoring the different response times, there will be no difference. > > (2) > Would there be a time penalty if items included in a Web page > were accessed > from several different databases on different servers from > that holding the > Web page (assuming all the databases were equally fast) I think you should be seeing a pattern here. The network is the limiting factor. That's it. > > (3) If a cgi script updated the visitor counter on a Web > page, would there > be a time penalty if that cgi script was on another server? this one merits details. but is being done in the wild (companies like http://beseen.com, for example) sgd From peter at genps.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 10:42:17 2000 From: peter at genps.demon.co.uk (Peter Small) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:42:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts In-Reply-To: <39A68B32.87D571EB@Baratta.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> <v04003a01b5cc2659ff0d@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <v04003a03b5cc410643a2@[158.152.26.28]> >> (1) >> Ignoring the different speeds of response between different servers through >> traffic etc,would there be a time penalty if a page were designed to have >> ten gifs with each of the gifs located on a different servers (i.e. ten >> gifs and eleven servers)? > >Remember that a web browser can only communicate so many different streams >at once. I >see a definite lag on the large commercial sites when the ads (which are >being served >by multiple ad servers) are loading. I think Netscape only uses 4-5 >streams. So with >10 servers to communicate with to build one page, I would think that this >'dispersed' >page would be slower than communicating with one single page. Especially >since the >client would have the choke point on bandwidth - don't forget broadband is >not a >reality for 95% of the world. > Anthony, How is this streaming improved by the ten gifs being on the same server as the Web page? Wouldn't the same streaming limitations apply - because the limitations are in the browser on the client side? Sorry if these are naive questions, but, the technical aspects of Web communication and file transfer is a big black fog to me. peter http://www.avatarnets.com From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 10:42:45 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:42:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B3@gate.ti3.com> > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. For instance ... > so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. nnnnnnnope. Look at it the other way around. You can write your own dll to do whatever you want, and call it from ASP. I know at this point CF must be able to instantiate COM objects, but ASP functionality is *not* reduced because ASP doesn't have things built in. Recall what Adrian said; ASP is closer to the underlying OS, and while that may mean things aren't built in, it also means a faster path for execution and the ability to get at whatever you want.... > > - ASP requires more steps to do certain things. For > instance, execute a > query. In ASP you have to open a connection, prepare the SQL, then > execute it, then close the connection. Whereas in CF, you just use > <cfquery> and the app. server does the details. yes, the CF server does the details, but what if you want to tweak those details? What do you mean by "prepare the SQL?" --you still have to write the SQL query in each app, and a previous Friday Freebie showed how to toss out the ADODB.Command object.... > > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. You can specify the OLE-DB provider to connect to the DB, and it is much faster than ODBC. example (all on one line): "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;User ID=IISUser;Initial Catalog=Foo_db;Password=blahablah;Server=LocalServer" (reading, but just watching) sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From madhu at asiacontent.com Fri Aug 25 11:12:05 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:12:05 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <20000825021920.403F5A913A@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000825132723.00ba2220@203.197.60.113> At 07:49 AM 8/25/00, you wrote: >Pros and cons? Have to pay extra for CF; ASP comes built-in to PWS/IIS - >thus increasing the apps' resale value, yes? CF is tag-based; ASP is >script-based. CF only really requires a good knowledge of HTML, whereas you >need to know some VBScript to dive into ASP. Which is easier to learn? Hmmm... like Adrian said, you've got a slugfest here. I haven't done much CF scripting, but I actually like the fact that the ASP script pretty much stands out and doesn't look like HTML. Let me tell ya' one thing. You can write good code and bad code in any language. If you have a badly designed database for example, your CF code ain't gonna save you. There are some good practices in programming that hold true no matter what language/platform you use. I use ASP 'cause it's free on NT and I've been programming for a while and seen various types of Basic, from GW Basic to VB. :) Also, SQL Server with ASP on NT is a good, well supported (and well documented) combo. Lots of VB guys around, see. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From madhu at asiacontent.com Fri Aug 25 11:12:18 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:12:18 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <20000825150804.F11D7A91E1@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000825205219.00bad290@203.197.60.113> At 08:38 PM 8/25/00, you wrote: >like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of >extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you >need more code to do it in ASP, but it's all VB code you may have >sitting around... Darn right. You could even put it into a function if you wanted to. Heck, I just use ASP Express that has a wizard for this. Punch in a few values and bang! Out comes your entire code. > > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. > >you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for >example)... Use OLEDB man! Much faster. In fact, here are a whole bunch o' tips to speed up your ASP code: a) Use a SQL Server stored procedure to execute the query, improving query execution time. Make the DB do the work. b) Instead of "SELECT * FROM Details", select only the columns she wanted in the query, reducing the db's work. Select a TEXT field only if you absolutely HAVE to. c) Change the Cache size for the recordset (rs.CacheSize = 10) to significantly improve performance. Changing it from the default of 1 ALWAYS improves performance. d) Instead of using ODBC, use raw OLEDB calls to the database. It screams! e) The most important: Instead of doing rs.MoveNext to loop through records, using the GetRows method of the RecordSet object. This transports the RecordSet into an array and allows you to free up the connection immediately. Combined with the CacheSize property, it gives a boost to performance. Arrays are much faster to loop through. f) Instantiate the db connection only in the line before the query was executed instead of the top of the page. Close the connection as soon as it's not required. g) Instead of mixing up ASP with HTML, put the entire HTML part of the page as a string and use ONE Response.Write to spit it out in one shot. This would make things faster as IIS caches ASP pages ONLY if they contain nothing BUT ASP code (thanks to sgd for this one). Hope this helps to improve your own code speed. I tell you; you'll feel the difference when your scripts run like greased lightning. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From Anthony at Baratta.com Fri Aug 25 11:15:50 2000 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:15:50 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04003a00b5cbc0ff1c7b@[158.152.26.28]> <v04003a01b5cc2659ff0d@[158.152.26.28]> <v04003a03b5cc410643a2@[158.152.26.28]> Message-ID: <39A69B7A.ABA9C152@Baratta.com> Peter Small wrote: > > How is this streaming improved by the ten gifs being on the same server as > the Web page? Wouldn't the same streaming limitations apply - because the > limitations are in the browser on the client side? > > Sorry if these are naive questions, but, the technical aspects of Web > communication and file transfer is a big black fog to me. I'm not intimate with how exactly the browser talks to the server. But I do notice the difference on those commercial sites that have a ton of ads (presumably served by several different ad servers) versus those that have only a single server processing the page. Take a typical ZD Net site for instance. Scenario One - Browser opens up four streams for each server. You are going to be severely limited by the client's connection speed. More connections to more servers will choke the client's connection. Scenario Two - Browser only has 4 connection streams total. Shouldn't be any faster or slower versus a single server. There maybe a slight hit each time the browser has to talk to a "new" server - but it shouldn't be that noticable. My guess is that most of the differnce will be on how the browser parses the HTML and decides to structure the communication setups with all the different servers. Something you have absolutely no control over. -- Anthony Baratta President KeyBoard Jockeys South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!! http://www.baratta.com/southpark Powered by Tsunami From djc at five2one.org Fri Aug 25 11:23:04 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:23:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B3@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <39A694CC.8CBA0978@five2one.org> Scott Dexter wrote: > > > > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. For instance > ... > > so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. > > nnnnnnnope. Look at it the other way around. You can write your own dll to > do whatever you want, and call it from ASP. I know at this point CF must be > able to instantiate COM objects, but ASP functionality is *not* reduced > because ASP doesn't have things built in. Recall what Adrian said; ASP is I think adam was trying to say that CF has many of those functions you have to write for ASP *already* built in. Things like SMTP, POP, LDAP, and FTP handling to name a few. Sure, you can write a custom DLL in asp to do the same thing, but why re-invent the wheel? Just to clarify, you *can* write your own custom tag or COM, Java, CORBA, or C++ object with CF and integrate that into your application just as seemlessly as ASP could. > closer to the underlying OS, and while that may mean things aren't built in, > it also means a faster path for execution and the ability to get at whatever > you want.... The flip side to that of course, is you inherit the flaws of the OS you're so closely tied into. Without getting into *that* whole issue though.. > > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. > > You can specify the OLE-DB provider to connect to the DB, and it is much > faster than ODBC. > example (all on one line): > "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;User ID=IISUser;Initial > Catalog=Foo_db;Password=blahablah;Server=LocalServer" Native connections like OCI(oracle native call internface) will smash OLE or ODBC, which I think is what adam was trying to elude to. .djc. From framar at interlog.com Fri Aug 25 11:32:04 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:32:04 2000 Subject: [thelist] age In-Reply-To: <v04220800b5cb6838928d@[209.213.133.94]> References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> <v04220800b5cb6838928d@[209.213.133.94]> Message-ID: <p04310100b5cc4ffde059@[64.229.73.193]> At 10:57 PM -0700 8/24/00, Erika Meyer wrote: >Is Mick Jagger too old to rock n' roll? Yes, but he's too young to die. -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Fri Aug 25 11:40:25 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:40:25 2000 Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? Message-ID: <OFB49C125C.1CC629D7-ON85256946.0051E37A@1.10.196> hi minh lee > I will be writing a CF application and I'm afraid the > database may have to be quite large with a lot of tables. yeah, i hate it when that happens ;o) best strategy is to have a database with as few tables and rows as possible > I'm also going to have to query a lot of tables at once for > some of those pages. there are strategies for this situation as well... i can probably help if you have questions about the sql, i'm real good with outer joins... <tip> in web/database applications, always look for opportunities to take advantage of server options like query results caching, i.e. don't re-query the database for stuff like product descriptions if the product hasn't changed since the last time somebody visited the page * if the last time somebody visited the page was maybe the day before yesterday, go ahead and run multi-table queries that retrieve product descriptions along with product codes -- your visitors aren't going to mind waiting, eh * on a high-volume site, the last time somebody visited the page is like a tenth of a second ago, so you want those product descriptions handy, and not have to go get them from the database every time </tip> this process, of deciding where, when, and how you do your database access, is part of data architecture > Is there a recommended limit before server performance gets compromised? this depends so much on individual installations that i can't offer anything but the vaguest generalities if you are *experiencing* performance problems, you would normally address them in the following order 1. does the box have enough horsepower 2. is the o/s software configured properly 3. did the developers know what they were doing 4. how good is the database design if you *wish to avoid* performance problems, you would normally address them in the reverse order <tip> to build a new application, first design your database -- all else comes after, and woe betide anyone who skips this step and starts coding </tip> back when there were only mainframes, and ibm had the computer monopoly, there was a joke that "ibm" meant "install bigger machine" because, when called in to fix a performance problem, that was always their first comeback... which makes sense, because they sold hardware... in today's world, installing a bigger machine is the easiest part of the equation -- servers are a commodity, as microsoft will happily tell you (not to pick on microsoft, it being only a coincidence that you need additional server software licenses for the additional servers...) configuring the software is almost a no-brainer, too -- provided you have sysadmin staff you can trust who understand both o/s tuning and internet security then there's the question of whether your developers knew what they were doing i have seen some really butt-ugly application logic over the years, and even a well designed database won't perform well if the application does stupid things this is not to insinuate that all applications are stupid, it's just that i've seen some doozies when it comes to database logic written by application developers <aside for="aardvark"> i hate to say this adrian, but i just don't get as warm a feeling from former vb programmers using a low-level language like asp against a database as i do from html developers using a language like cf -- when it comes to designing clean application logic in web pages that access a database, the html side is "closer to" the data model and therefore more likely to know what they're doing than programmers who see things in terms of "very simple" dll's or "VB code you may have sitting around" </aside> just my opinion ... and i could be wrong, eh rudy r937.com From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 12:14:56 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 12:14:56 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp (was: Too many queries?) In-Reply-To: <OFB49C125C.1CC629D7-ON85256946.0051E37A@1.10.196> Message-ID: <200008251715.KAA20825@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca > > <aside for="aardvark"> > i hate to say this adrian, but i just don't get as warm a > feeling from former vb programmers using a low-level language like > asp against a database as i do from html developers using a > language like cf -- when it comes to designing clean application > logic in web pages that access a database, the html side is "closer > to" the data model and therefore more likely to know what they're > doing than programmers who see things in terms of "very simple" > dll's or "VB code you may have sitting around" > </aside> <ajar for="rudy"> i wouldn't challenge your assertion only because it can easily be true... bad coders create bad code, no matter the OS/language/etc... yes, CF almost idiot-proofs it, but for VB guy (and to some extent, other languages), it's second nature to do some of that in VBScript... and makes them feel better having that control and flexibility... plus, if your coders are putzes, just create a function or a component to handle the db calls, marshall data, etc... but i certainly don't feel that HTML coders are better off wtih VBScript, especially if they refuse to close tags, quote attributes, etc... a good coder can learn VBScript pretty damn quickly, or apply their favorite language of choice... a good HTML coder can pick up CF pretty quickly as well, but it doesn't, at least to me, demonstrate the cognitive dissonance between client and server, primarily because it tries to be a mark-up language... i wish i could find those sites where i saw <cfif> on static .html pages... </ajar> From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 12:32:14 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 12:32:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <39A694CC.8CBA0978@five2one.org> Message-ID: <200008251732.KAA24570@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at five2one.org> > > > > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. For > > > > nnnnnnnope. Look at it the other way around. You can write your own > > dll to do whatever you want, and call it from ASP. I know at this > > point CF must be able to instantiate COM objects, but ASP > > functionality is *not* reduced because ASP doesn't have things built > > in. Recall what Adrian said; ASP is > > I think adam was trying to say that CF has many of those functions you > have to write for ASP *already* built in. Things like SMTP, POP, LDAP, > and FTP handling to name a few. Sure, you can write a custom DLL in > asp to do the same thing, but why re-invent the wheel? that's all there... and you don't need a custom DLL... it just doesn't come in a pretty tag... but it isn't that hard, either... it may look daunting, but it's pretty damn easy... sure, NT itself may have less- than-stellar FTP, for instance, but dig deal -- modify it... > Just to clarify, you *can* write your own custom tag or COM, Java, > CORBA, or C++ object with CF and integrate that into your application > just as seemlessly as ASP could. exactly... > > closer to the underlying OS, and while that may mean things aren't > > built in, it also means a faster path for execution and the ability > > to get at whatever you want.... > > The flip side to that of course, is you inherit the flaws of the OS > you're so closely tied into. Without getting into *that* whole issue > though.. another point worth noting... but that's why i mentioned that if you're an NT shop, it's not that hard... i know people talk about how bad NT is, but if you check old posts, i've been able to extract performance from NT boxen that has surprised most and resulted in replies of disbelief from the others... your web server stability is only as good as your staff's ability to maintain it... if you have no NT capability, but lots of *nix, then certainly ASP on NT is not the way to go... again, if you're an NT shop, it's a natural in most cases... > Native connections like OCI(oracle native call internface) will smash > OLE or ODBC, which I think is what adam was trying to elude to. really? now that is something i would like to see stats on... we certainly haven't had any lack of performance using OLE-DB or even ODBC... i doubt switching to OCI would affect it... From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 12:32:27 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 12:32:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE04B8@SERVER04> Message-ID: <200008251732.KAA24948@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: Seth Bienek - Web Consultant <sbienek at acep.org> > > > any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a lot > > of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload script > > that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need > > <cffile action="upload"> +1 for CF. :) exactly... i'm not trying to say one is better than the other... as an ASP developer, i know the caveats of ASP all too well... but they're not enough to make us switch to something else for a whole new set of caveats... i'm also not trying to be the champion of ASP, but how else can i offer a comparison than to talk about what it can -- and can't -- do? one caveat... VB has a format() function that allows you format, for instance, dates and times to whatever format you pass.... does VBScript have this? nope... gotta write a function or piece together elements if you want a date in something other than the 4 formats you can get from formatdatetime()... > > like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of > > extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you > > This one has me curious. CF Server interfaces with the webserver's > API, in MS's case, ISAPI, in exactly the same manner as ASP. I cannot > see how this adds an extra layer of extrapolation. If I am incorrect, > please set me straight, but I am thinking that this statement may be > incorrect. where do you think the <cfquery> gets converted? > +1 for ASP. To connect to MS Jet databases with ColdFusion, an ODBC > datasource must be set up on the CF Server. With ASP it's possible to > just upload and go; with CF, if you don't have admin access on the > server then you could have to wait on someone to set up the > Datasource. that's one nice thing... DSN-less connections can save a lot of money on shared hosts, too... > > if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... > > the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close > > enough... > > I don't know if I completely agree with this. I would say that if you > have in-house talent, or if you have a background in OOP development, > or if you are an all-MS shop, then ASP may be for you. > > If you are new to developing web applications, ColdFusion has a much, > much better learning curve. Many complex functions are already built > into the language, but it has the power to extend far beyond pre-built > functions as well, for in the future when you decide to become a CF > Jedi Master. :) just another way of saying my thing... i think you left off the rest of it, though... > It isn't my intention to trash ASP here. I'm a ColdFusion developer, > and as such I haven't focused a great deal on ASP's features and > benefits. and as an ASP developer, i don't know all of CF, but with my time on admin watching the CF discussions for the site, i always wonder why everything sounds so difficult when some of the stuff could be done with 2 lines of VBScript or built-in functions... and then they wonder why i can't use <cfquery> everywhere... > It's by a CF developer, so it may be slanted. I'd be interested in > seeing an actual, unbiased comparisson of the two.. that'll be the day... From fowler18 at england.seagull.net Fri Aug 25 12:56:01 2000 From: fowler18 at england.seagull.net (terryfowler.com) Date: Fri Aug 25 12:56:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <OFD9519F29.3C8227B5-ON80256946.0039DA1A@chi.nhs.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10008251048160.26149-100000@england.seagull.net> I was just in my favorite thinking spot kinda thinking about interviewing and taking an HTML test and stuff and I suddenly realized I didn't know how to picture myself. Was I in a suit? Dockers and a polo shirt? jeans and tshirt? Would a 20 yearold dress different from a 30 yearold? How about a 47 yearold? Also, since I've been doing this stuff for about 5 years now behind a corporate firewall where NN3 is predominant and it's all engineers so the the uglier the better, do I have a chance in the real world? If you told me to code to HTML 3.2 I'd just do what I've been doing all along, but if you said HTML 4 transitional - well - I'd still do what I've been doing all along. I have a better idea what to do with xhtml than HTML 4x. Okay, that's all for now. Terry Fowler Boeing Wants to try the real world. From dbailey2 at healthaxis.com Fri Aug 25 13:27:59 2000 From: dbailey2 at healthaxis.com (Bailey, Dan) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:27:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <7171306544DBD31195B900D0B7222A4E010D9E@haxcre00.healthaxis.com> Last summer, I interviewed with weatherplanner.com for a web design position, at age 26. I wore a pair of khakis, a pair of brown Levi's Dockers shoes (don't know the technical term for 'em...I'm a jeans-n-t-shirt kinda guy), and a blue short sleeved knit-material shirt with buttons at the neck, but no collar. I rocked them in the interview and they wanted to bring me aboard...some foot-dragging caused me to take a job elsewhere, and I still kick myself for it. -- Dan -----Original Message----- From: terryfowler.com [mailto:fowler18 at england.seagull.net] Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 1:56 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) I was just in my favorite thinking spot kinda thinking about interviewing and taking an HTML test and stuff and I suddenly realized I didn't know how to picture myself. Was I in a suit? Dockers and a polo shirt? jeans and tshirt? Would a 20 yearold dress different from a 30 yearold? How about a 47 yearold? Also, since I've been doing this stuff for about 5 years now behind a corporate firewall where NN3 is predominant and it's all engineers so the the uglier the better, do I have a chance in the real world? If you told me to code to HTML 3.2 I'd just do what I've been doing all along, but if you said HTML 4 transitional - well - I'd still do what I've been doing all along. I have a better idea what to do with xhtml than HTML 4x. Okay, that's all for now. Terry Fowler Boeing Wants to try the real world. --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From erika at seastorm.com Fri Aug 25 13:32:53 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:32:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10008251048160.26149-100000@england.seagull.net> References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10008251048160.26149-100000@england.seagull.net> Message-ID: <v04220802b5cc6209554d@[209.213.133.88]> >Was I in a suit? Dockers and a polo shirt? jeans and tshirt? I think that in the job search end, the jeans thing is out. (it's kind of 80's retro). I was just at a high tech career fair (Portland, OR) and it seems that dockers and a polo would be the winner for the 20-40 year old set. I guess it depends on who you are and where you want to be, but if you are, for example, a hotshot Java programmer, no one is going to eliminate you because you are not wearing a suit. Or even expect you to wear a suit. That's just my impression. >Would a 20 yearold dress different from a 30 yearold? How >about a 47 yearold? I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole. I think you should dress how you feel comfortable. >I have a better idea what to do >with xhtml than HTML 4x. XHTML is basically HTML4x, XML enhanced. I'm not sure there is a real world where web dev is concerned. On the front end there seems to be more attention to sizzle than substance. I don't know about the rest. HTML is just one skill, and it's a low end skill. You probably have other skills that would be better compensated. What you do may also relate to how you dress, but I always try to think of Henry David Thoreau who said something along the lines of: "Beware of ventures that require new clothes." (not exact quote, from memory.) If you have to dress in a way that doesn't feel comfortable to you, you might wonder if the job will feel comfortable. I've always felt best in jobs that allowed me to dress like myself. Erika erika at seastorm.com From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 13:40:32 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:40:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <7171306544DBD31195B900D0B7222A4E010D9E@haxcre00.healthaxis.com> Message-ID: <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Bailey, Dan" <dbailey2 at healthaxis.com> > > Dockers shoes (don't know the technical term for 'em...I'm a > jeans-n-t-shirt kinda guy), and a blue short sleeved knit-material > shirt with buttons at the neck, but no collar. I rocked them in the like a polo without a collar? henley. all that is right with clothing exists in those shirts... when i interview folks, i've had guys come in wearing full suits, and guys come in wearing khakis and button-downs... i try not to judge people based on what they wear (it's against employment law), and ultimately i don't care what you're wearing... my only requirement is that is be neat and clean... a guy in a frumpy/stained/ripped/ill- fitting 3-piece suit would be better off coming to my office in a fitting pressed pair of khakis and a tucked-in polo shirt... ...or a hawaiian shirt (yes, isaac, i'm wearing one right now, it's got women in 1950s'era bikinis under palm trees)... From catem at swbell.net Fri Aug 25 13:41:49 2000 From: catem at swbell.net (cate meredith) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:41:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Job Opportunity in San Diego In-Reply-To: <200008251715.KAA20825@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <000b01c00ec2$aaa29580$68c4fea9@cate> When I was job hunting this summer, Binary Labs is one of the companies I targeted. They called me for an interview but I had already accepted a position with a Los Angeles company. I've told them, however, that I'll let any friends know that there's a great opportunity in San Diego. So this is the job description: BINARYLABS Transforming Information Into Knowledge Contact: Timi Gleason (858) 274-8520 x 45 tgleason at binarylabs.com Web Software Engineer BinaryLabs is a professional services firm providing consulting, design, and technology services to companies seeking to exploit the instructional potential of the Internet, personal computers, and wireless devices. We help companies put their information and content assets to work by creating e-learning products and improving employee training and performance. Many of our clients are Fortune 500 companies that require the state-of-the-art educational technology solutions that we design and develop. RESPONSIBILITIES: ? Software engineer with a solid understanding of object-oriented analysis and design. ? Applies his or her knowledge in multiple languages or authoring environments. ? May specialize in several software applications ? Assists the Lead Software Enginerr to match, from a variety of options, the most appropriate software to meet our clients? requirements. REQUIRES: ? Fundamental understanding of n-tier web application development and the processes required to deliver on-time, quality products within budget. ? Prefer CS Degree or equivalent from an accredited university and at least two years experience. ? Previous experience using n-tier application development technologies in as many areas as possible: Java (Servlets, EJB, J2EE), Microsoft (ASP, Interdev, SQL Server) and Oracle (Developer 2000, 8i) or other related technologies. ? A broad range of experience will be helpful in making key technology decisions. ? Cross-browser compatibility experience helpful. ? Excellent oral and written communication skills and teamwork required. Required for JAVA Engineers: JSP, servlets, EJB, and experience with RDT Rapid Development Technologies (examples: Websphere, and a combination of Dreamweaver/Visual Age for Java) LIFESTYLE: Our facilities are two blocks from the boardwalk at Pacific Beach in San Diego. Our company has about 30 employees, is growing fast, and we work in an environment that is friendly and supports casual dress. Bicycles welcome. BENEFITS: BinaryLabs offers competitive salaries, medical/dental benefits, a 401-k, three (3) weeks of vacations to start, bonus/stock programs, and plenty of time for a refreshing walk on the beach at lunch. Off-street parking provided. YOUR PORTFOLIO: With your resume, please include any appropriate references to sites that you have engineered and a description of your role in creating them. From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 13:43:16 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:43:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125BF@gate.ti3.com> I adopt a dress code appropriate for the company; and at times have even asked before coming in just to make sure. (You get this comfortable after umpteen million phone interviews) and despite our continuing relaxed corp culture, when in doubt, dress to the nines. It still shows you're serious about your job search. But whatever you do, if they mention how they dress or give you specifi guidelines, you'd better pay attention! sgd -- http://thinksafely.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Bailey, Dan [mailto:dbailey2 at healthaxis.com] > > Last summer, I interviewed with weatherplanner.com for a web design > position, at age 26. I wore a pair of khakis, a pair of brown Levi's > Dockers shoes (don't know the technical term for 'em...I'm a > jeans-n-t-shirt > kinda guy), and a blue short sleeved knit-material shirt with > buttons at the From krr at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 25 14:15:55 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:15:55 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <CF6FC96593A2D311906600104BCB0A52AE04B8@SERVER04> Message-ID: <000801c00ec9$f4c2db00$0200000a@pavilion> > ------------------------------------ > Seth Bienek > Independent ColdFusion Developer > Would you care to drop your two cents in on the best approach to jumping into the language. any suggestions that you found worked?? What type of background was the greatest help when you first started working with Cold Fusion?? any insight would be appreciated krr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Bienek - Web Consultant" <sbienek at acep.org> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:15 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] cf vs asp > I usually try to steer clear of Holy wars, but I've been watching this > thread with much interest and I have to much to include to let it slip by.. > > > any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a > > lot of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload > > script that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need > > <cffile action="upload"> +1 for CF. :) > > > like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of > > extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you > > This one has me curious. CF Server interfaces with the webserver's API, in > MS's case, ISAPI, in exactly the same manner as ASP. I cannot see how this > adds an extra layer of extrapolation. If I am incorrect, please set me > straight, but I am thinking that this statement may be incorrect. > > > you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for > > example)... > > +1 for ASP. To connect to MS Jet databases with ColdFusion, an ODBC > datasource must be set up on the CF Server. With ASP it's possible to just > upload and go; with CF, if you don't have admin access on the server then > you could have to wait on someone to set up the Datasource. > > > if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... > > the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close enough... > > I don't know if I completely agree with this. I would say that if you have > in-house talent, or if you have a background in OOP development, or if you > are an all-MS shop, then ASP may be for you. > > If you are new to developing web applications, ColdFusion has a much, much > better learning curve. Many complex functions are already built into the > language, but it has the power to extend far beyond pre-built functions as > well, for in the future when you decide to become a CF Jedi Master. :) > > The next generation of CF server will also be written entirely in Java, so > it will run on nearly any platform out there. The language (CFML) will also > integrate with Java-based technologies (such as jsp), so you will be able to > write your CF in a number of formats, or if you want, start developing in > Java altogether down the road, when your grasp of programming skills is > stronger. > > It isn't my intention to trash ASP here. I'm a ColdFusion developer, and as > such I haven't focused a great deal on ASP's features and benefits. > > There is a comparison of the two online at: > http://www.swynk.com/friends/murphy/articles.asp > > It's by a CF developer, so it may be slanted. I'd be interested in seeing > an actual, unbiased comparisson of the two.. > > Just my 2 drachmas, > > Seth > > ------------------------------------ > Seth Bienek > Independent ColdFusion Developer > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of aardvark > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:45 AM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thelist] cf vs asp > > > > > > > From:Adam Patrick <apatrick at oracular.com> > > > > > > - With ASP you don't get a lot of built in functionality. > > For instance > > > in order to execute winzip (or any program) with ASP, I had to get a > > > 3rd-party DLL. CF has that built in. There are a number of other > > > things like this that CF includes that ASP requires > > 3rd-party DLLs for > > > so the functionality of CF is beyond ASP in that sense. > > > > this is very true... however, assuming you have the VB talent in- > > house, this is a very simple DLL to write... and there are a number > > of places you can get a free DLL to do it... > > > > what is key is that most shared NT hosts won't allow you to install > > any custom components, so you need to find script solutions to a > > lot of this (for instance, i got my hands on a great HTTP upload > > script that works perfectly on my shared NT host, without the need > > to install anything)... but if you control the server, this > > is certainly > > not an issue... > > > > also, NT's native FTP support sucks, so you'd need to grab a third- > > party tool in case you plan to use FTP heavily... this is assuming > > you'd run either CF or ASP on NT... > > > > > - ASP requires more steps to do certain things. For > > instance, execute > > > a query. In ASP you have to open a connection, prepare the > > SQL, then > > > execute it, then close the connection. Whereas in CF, you just use > > > <cfquery> and the app. server does the details. > > > > like a said before, that's because CF adds the layer of > > extrapolation between the OS and the application... so yes, you > > need more code to do it in ASP, but it's all VB code you may have > > sitting around... > > > > > - (correct me if I'm wrong on this) We had to use ODBC to connect to > > > Oracle and SQLServer from ASP. ODBC isn't a super efficient way of > > > connecting so that could be a disadvantage performance-wise. > > > > you can connect via ODBC, OLEDB, MS Jet (for Access for > > example)... > > > > either way, if you have in-house NT and VB skills, try ASP, you've > > probably already got it installed on a development server... if it > > doesn't work out, get CF... > > > > if you don't have the in-house talent, or aren't NT-based, try CF... > > the price point to get CF vs. NT/ASP at that point is close enough... > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > For unsubscribe and other options, including > > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From aczechowski at towson.edu Fri Aug 25 14:30:23 2000 From: aczechowski at towson.edu (Czechowski, Aaron) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:30:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <FB342847711ADA479F79750C2A27A6D948D948@exchange.towson.edu> thanks to all for your insight and comments! Seth, the link to swynk.com was great! anyone know of other cf vs asp comparisons? the specific battle that is ensuing here is between web designers (not developers, but designers) and their manager who have a strong HTML background that quickly purchased and setup a CF production server and started implementing intranet CF apps; and the hard-core in-house developers & NT LAN guys who live & breath VB. This battle is actually very similar to PC vs Mac battles I've seen waged time and time again. I've done some ASP and thought it was alright, but found I first had to learn VBScript, which isn't that difficult; and just recently picked up CF (at the suggestion of the manager of web development, which enraged the VB guys) which I find especially easy with my solid HTML background. hm... stuck in the middle again.... thanks Aaron :) From martin at members.evolt.org Fri Aug 25 14:31:32 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:31:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <0e8d13631191980DIAL4@cwcom.net> Erika Meyer wrote on 25/8/00 7:20 pm >>Was I in a suit? Dockers and a polo shirt? jeans and tshirt? > >I think that in the job search end, the jeans thing is out. (it's >kind of 80's retro). I was just at a high tech career fair (Portland, >OR) and it seems that dockers and a polo would be the winner for the >20-40 year old set. I think the 'anything from Gap' thing still goes. don't know about women, but for men, nice shirt (no tie) and chinos is pretty much standard. Unless you're working in a bank of course. Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Fri Aug 25 14:32:31 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:32:31 2000 Subject: [thelist] Too many queries? Message-ID: <0c46a4233191980DIAL1@cwcom.net> rudy limeback wrote on 25/8/00 5:38 pm <tip type='database performance' author='rudy' class='top'> >if you are *experiencing* performance problems, you would normally address >them in the following order > > 1. does the box have enough horsepower > 2. is the o/s software configured properly > 3. did the developers know what they were doing > 4. how good is the database design > >if you *wish to avoid* performance problems, you would normally address >them in the reverse order </tip> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From sabowski at wam.umd.edu Fri Aug 25 14:44:32 2000 From: sabowski at wam.umd.edu (Erik M. Sabowski) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:44:32 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10008251048160.26149-100000@england.seagull.net> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008251540150.22312-100000@rac4.wam.umd.edu> I'm glad that the office I work at doesn't care that I dress very casually and have orange hair. I never would have never thought that a federal government office would be so casual :) #airyk +--------------------------------+ | Erik M. Sabowski | | Computer Assistant, NOAA (NGS) | | sabowski at wam.umd.edu | +--------------------------------+ | "Don't try to out-stupid Erik" | | -ash | +--------------------------------+ From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 16:44:51 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 16:44:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] Friday Freebie Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125D4@gate.ti3.com> considering I laid down a mutha tip yesterday, this one's short and sweet: <tip type="server maintenance"> Got servers running 24/7? Replace the hard drives every 3-4 years. Do it before they go bye-bye and never be the goat =) A utility like Norton Ghost can mirror Gbs in minutes.... </tip> sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From djc at five2one.org Fri Aug 25 16:47:42 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Aug 25 16:47:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] Friday Freebie Message-ID: <39A6E95A.60FEA375@five2one.org> Slow day :) : http://freebeer at evolt.org/ http://sexydevelopers at evolt.org/ <tip type="Date formatting"> If you're having problems formatting dates with the app server of your choice, consider using the native functions of your database to do the work for you. For example, I was having a bitch of a time getting a date field from a cold fusion POP query.. CF would just not parse it.. So, instead, I passed the string to Oracle and used an oracle funtion to convert the string as it was inserting it like so: insert into dan beer, martini, time_drank values('Bass', 'Manhatten', to_date(Friday, Aug 25 2000 5:00:00PM, 'dd-mmm-yyyy')) the 'to_date' function will take any(almost) string and convert it into a date format that your DB, oracle in this case, will recognize. Any time you can offload work to your DB server and let your app server rest, Its A Good Thing(tm) </tip> .djc. From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Fri Aug 25 19:00:11 2000 From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:00:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design industry Message-ID: <3956A1B8.E55B2551@ihug.co.nz> Hey all, I've been coding in HTML for only around a year, but I'm starting to kid myself that I have half-way decent skills. I've learned basic Javascript and some stylesheets stuff, but Cold Fusion, asp, perl, Java, etc, are mysteries to me right now. Hopefully that won't be the case for too much longer, I plan to try and learn the basics of this these, too, but I know these are longer roads, so to speak. I want eventually to get work as a designer/coder, but I still have a lot to learn. This is where I hope you all come in. I hoped some of you could point me towards some sites which will tell me more about the industry itself. Specifically; sites which give general information on which skills or combination of skills would put me where in the web design industry. Like which skills are considered 'core' or basic entry requirements, and which skills will place me at the say for example, the 'low' end of the spectrum, and what I'd need to work at the 'top' end. What people hiring web designers expect..... You'll probably say, 'well, you've gotta decide what it is you want to do', but I'd like to get an overview of the whole caper, and then try and decide from there. OK. Any links, appreciated. cheers, Duncan ====================================================================== From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Fri Aug 25 19:22:03 2000 From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:22:03 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design caper Message-ID: <39A71232.E94F1A34@ihug.co.nz> Hey all, I've been coding in HTML for only around a year, but I'm starting to kid myself that I have half-way decent skills. I've learned basic Javascript and some stylesheets stuff, but Cold Fusion, asp, perl, Java, etc, are mysteries to me right now. Hopefully that won't be the case for too much longer, I plan to try and learn the basics of this these, too, but I know these are longer roads, so to speak. I want eventually to get work as a designer/coder, but I still have a lot to learn. This is where I hope you all come in. I hoped some of you could point me towards some sites which will tell me more about the industry itself. Specifically; sites which give general information on which skills or combination of skills would put me where in the web design industry. Like which skills are considered 'core' or basic entry requirements, and which skills will place me at the say for example, the 'low' end of the spectrum, and what I'd need to work at the 'top' end. What people hiring web designers expect..... You'll probably say, 'well, you've gotta decide what it is you want to do', but I'd like to get an overview of the whole caper, and then try and decide from there. OK. Any links, appreciated. cheers, Duncan O'Neill ====================================================================== From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 19:46:28 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:46:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B4@gate.ti3.com> > also, NT's native FTP support sucks, so you'd need to grab a third- > party tool in case you plan to use FTP heavily... this is assuming > you'd run either CF or ASP on NT... so much so that we've trashed it in favor of FTPServ-U. I highly recommend it. sgd From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 19:46:41 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:46:41 2000 Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B5@gate.ti3.com> Hey dan, you get to flirt with the Great Evil Monster on this one. IE5 has a great built in validator/parser And dude, I just looked at the page; you've got DTD syntax mix0erd with XML syntax. Hey, there's a great article on evolt about XML ... http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=1326&catid=17 but aside from that: http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml specifically: http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/tools/xmlint/xmlint.zip sgd -- think safely > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:djc at five2one.org] > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:28 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] XML newbie here > > > Hi gang - > > Working on some syndication things and started playing around > with some > XML feeds for the evolt site. I'm not really 'in the know' > too much with > XML to say the least. From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 19:46:49 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:46:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Spreading sites between different hosts Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125B6@gate.ti3.com> > > How is this streaming improved by the ten gifs being on the > same server as > the Web page? Wouldn't the same streaming limitations apply - > because the > limitations are in the browser on the client side? > there's a little tweak in http 1.1 called KeepAlive, and the browser will keep the connection nailed up if there are other things to download from that connection. The destination server has to support KeepAlives (and have them turned on), but it can help some because it alleviates the redundant tear-down/set-up of connections to the same server *in the same request batch.* > Sorry if these are naive questions, but, the technical aspects of Web > communication and file transfer is a big black fog to me. no prob (eventhough I'm hopping in here ;) ) check out: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/Performance/ sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From sgd at ti3.com Fri Aug 25 19:46:59 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Aug 25 19:46:59 2000 Subject: [thelist] Ti3 is hiring Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB32111720125D9@gate.ti3.com> Timely, considering all the hiring talk.... Do you live in the Dallas/Fort Worth (USA) area?? (Hi Seth =) ) Would you like to work for a company that isn't afraid to tell a client 'no?' Would you like to work for a company that lets you be the designer *and* backend programmer? Would you like to work for a company that is about to explode above the radar? Ti3 is a fantastic place to work if you like things like flexible hours, revenue sharing, wearing sandals to work, playing foosball, and stock. If you or someone you know might be interested, please contact me to find out more information or to submit a resume. Here's the specific experience we are looking for: - IIS 4.0 or greater development experience (ASP, VBScript and JavaScript) - Any additional VB and Database ( SQL Server 7.0 ) experience very helpful Even if you don't have those specific skillsets, don't hesitate, you never know. We're looking for a Jack of All Trades, Master in maybe one or two. We're not your typical .com (I don't even think we fit the description), and we don't have a problem with funding or revenues. More info: http://www.ti3.com/ Contact me at work: sgd at ti3.com 800.491.4994x27 214.435.0425 (cell) sgd -- http://thinksafely.org From isaac at triplezero.com.au Fri Aug 25 20:34:01 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Fri Aug 25 20:34:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <000801c00ec9$f4c2db00$0200000a@pavilion> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEBHDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > Would you care to drop your two cents in on the best approach to jumping > into the language. > any suggestions that you found worked?? learning CF? if you're running NT, you've got or can get IIS on your machine. if you're running win9x, ditto, but with PWS (personal web server). go to allaire and download the CF application server demo, or the freebie CF Express (a cut-down version). install it, and let us know when you've got that far. from that point, it's ultra easy to whip up your first db, and build a little app that plays with it. isaac From isaac at triplezero.com.au Fri Aug 25 20:49:47 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Fri Aug 25 20:49:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > ...or a hawaiian shirt (yes, isaac, i'm wearing one right now, it's got > women in 1950s'era bikinis under palm trees)... dude, what do you want? phone sex? you'll give people the wrong impression... ;p you gotta explain the history of photos you post to admin of you at various parties always wearing garish hawaiian shirts. quick q for this thread, what are dockers? shoes? pants? in australia, dockers are a football team.. don't dress for your current job, or the one you're about interview for. dress for the job you want *NEXT*. (who ignores all advice, and works in his pyjamas all day during winter, and shorts in summer) isaac From vidman at starnet.com.au Fri Aug 25 22:49:57 2000 From: vidman at starnet.com.au (vidman design) Date: Fri Aug 25 22:49:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <7171306544DBD31195B900D0B7222A4E010D9E@haxcre00.healthaxis.com> <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <200008260350.NAA02129@mars.planet.net.au> > ...or a hawaiian shirt (yes, isaac, i'm wearing one right now, it's got > women in 1950s'era bikinis under palm trees)... As a devote of hawiian shirts I want to see this shirt! Dont know the url of ther shop you got it from by chance? lol vid --------------- vidman design --------------- For designs that grab your attention like a mohawk on a politician! http://www.vidmandesign.com ------------------------------------------------------- From erika at seastorm.com Fri Aug 25 22:57:58 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Fri Aug 25 22:57:58 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <v04220801b5ccef699d95@[209.213.133.115]> >quick q for this thread, what are dockers? shoes? pants? >in australia, dockers are a football team.. What? You don't wear shoes or pants in australia? What's football? <tip type="information design" author="erika"> Information design is dating. GUI design is sex. It can be better if you wait. </tip> Erika erika at seastorm.com http://www.seastorm.com From vidman at starnet.com.au Fri Aug 25 23:11:14 2000 From: vidman at starnet.com.au (vidman design) Date: Fri Aug 25 23:11:14 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <v04220801b5ccef699d95@[209.213.133.115]> References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> <v04220801b5ccef699d95@[209.213.133.115]> Message-ID: <200008260411.OAA07071@mars.planet.net.au> > What? You don't wear shoes or pants in australia? > > What's football? Football is what the Essendon Bombers always win *Go Bombers!!* http://www.essendonfc.com.au vid --------------- vidman design --------------- For designs that grab your attention like a mohawk on a politician! http://www.vidmandesign.com ------------------------------------------------------- From dante at vianet.net.au Fri Aug 25 23:21:27 2000 From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante) Date: Fri Aug 25 23:21:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> <v04220801b5ccef699d95@[209.213.133.115]> Message-ID: <026501c00f15$6ce2b2e0$fd01a8c0@dante> Nah, We wears kangaroo skins 'n stuff ;) Football?! Try here: http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/ dante <tip author="dante" url=" dante at vianet.net.au "> Learning WAP? This is useful: http://www.forum.nokia.com/wapforum/main/1,6668,1_1_30_2_3,00.html </tip> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erika Meyer" <erika at seastorm.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 11:58 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) > >quick q for this thread, what are dockers? shoes? pants? > >in australia, dockers are a football team.. > > What? You don't wear shoes or pants in australia? > > What's football? > > > <tip type="information design" author="erika"> > > Information design is dating. GUI design is sex. > It can be better if you wait. > > </tip> > > > Erika > > erika at seastorm.com > http://www.seastorm.com > > > --------------------------------------- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From krr at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 26 00:09:33 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Sat Aug 26 00:09:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEBHDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <001f01c00f1c$e089c4c0$0200000a@pavilion> > go to allaire and download the CF application server demo, or the freebie CF > Express (a cut-down version). Im checking out CF and cant figure which is which. The price tags on these range from $5000 to $195 for ColdFusion Studio 2 Year Subscription which is which?? I currently use Homesite 4.5 and it looks like CF studio is what I am looking for. How does this software stack up?? Will it be able to do what I want it to?? http://commerce.allaire.com/ecommerce/store/orderform.cfm this is the purchase page... if the software does what I think it can I will want to buy it. Of course if it has a price tag of several thousand then I don't think that it will be feasible thanx krr From krr at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 26 01:31:45 2000 From: krr at ix.netcom.com (kevin raleigh) Date: Sat Aug 26 01:31:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp References: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBCEBHDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <005d01c00f28$5c4afa60$0200000a@pavilion> Well I decided to jump into the deep end and purchased a copy of CF studio 4.5 educational. Since I still go to school part time "returning student" I qualify for a small discount. So the price didn't break the bank just bruised it. Should get it in a day or so. Also picked up several books on the subject including the dummies book for SQL How easy is CF in terms of working with Access?? I already have Access so it would be nice if I could use it :) krr From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Aug 26 02:25:15 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sat Aug 26 02:25:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <037fa2726071a80DIAL1@cwcom.net> Isaac Forman wrote on 26/8/00 3:33 am >go to allaire and download the CF application server demo, or the freebie CF >Express (a cut-down version). single person app server version is on the DW(2 - dunno about 3) disk. cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Aug 26 02:25:27 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sat Aug 26 02:25:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp Message-ID: <037333026071a80DIAL1@cwcom.net> kevin raleigh wrote on 26/8/00 7:39 am >Well I decided to jump into the deep end and purchased a copy of CF studio >4.5 educational. >Since I still go to school part time "returning student" I qualify for a >small discount. *cool* - take the discounts where you can get them! >How easy is CF in terms of working with Access?? I already have Access so it >would be nice if I could use it :) Very easy (Access has a query builder you can cut & paste the SQL from), but it's not *that* useful for production sites. Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From info at aussiebidder.com Sat Aug 26 02:57:01 2000 From: info at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer) Date: Sat Aug 26 02:57:01 2000 Subject: [thelist] images as button and JS Message-ID: <01af01c00f33$b5c7e8e0$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Hi People, Can any one tell me this doesn't work? If I replace the image with a button it works fine. If I can replace a button with an image in a form why cant I here? Oh...and its deep within a cgi, does that make a difference? When you click on the image it seems to return some x and y stuff like this: x=15&y=1 Any Ideas? <form><input type=image src=\"../images/newitem.gif\" onClick=\"window.open(\'lib/new.html\' , \'adrian\' , config=\'height=200,width=200\')\"></form> Adrian Fischer From jeff at c4webdesign.com Sat Aug 26 04:20:09 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Sat Aug 26 04:20:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] images as button and JS References: <01af01c00f33$b5c7e8e0$c9832dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <09b701c00f3e$58aa03e0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> adrian, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Adrian Fischer <info at aussiebidder.com> : : Can any one tell me this doesn't work? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ just offhand i'd say the problem client-side is because an image submit does not have an onClick event handler. server-side i'd say that it's because you're not looking for the right kinds of values, ie x & y coordinates of the click. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : <form> : <input : type=image : src=\"../images/newitem.gif\" : onClick= : \"window.open(\'lib/new.html\' , : \'adrian\' , : config=\'height=200,width=200\')\" : > : </form> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ there's no such parameter named "config" in the window.open() function. also, just out of curiousity, but what's the reason for all the back-slashes? is this something that you're putting on the page via document.write()? if not, lose them all, they're not necessary. if you are, then may i make a suggestion . . . don't use double-quotes to wrap your strings in javascript. instead, wrap your strings in single-quotes, then the only time you'll ever have to escape anything is when you've got an apostrophe or the odd function called where you're passing strings that are wrapped in single-quotes. in other words, this: document.write("<a href=\"/foo.html\" onClick=\"alert('bar')\">"); would simply be this: document.write('<a href="/foo.html" onClick="alert(\'bar\')">'); much easier to read eh? hint: image submits do not have a value attribute because they don't send a value to the server. instead, they return the name of the button with coordinates attached. foo.html?imagebutton.x=15&imagebutton.y=3 good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 08:03:29 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Aug 26 08:03:29 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBIDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> References: <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <200008261303.GAA18026@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Isaac Forman" <isaac at triplezero.com.au> > > > ...or a hawaiian shirt (yes, isaac, i'm wearing one right now, it's > > got women in 1950s'era bikinis under palm trees)... > > dude, what do you want? phone sex? you'll give people the wrong > impression... ;p apparently not... > you gotta explain the history of photos you post to admin of you at > various parties always wearing garish hawaiian shirts. http://roselli.org/andrew/pages/016_13A.htm ... i'm the one on the left side of the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship pool with the orangey shirt and the black t-shirt... what others have i posted? even now, sitting at work on a saturday morning, i have on a lovely hawaiian shirt... > quick q for this thread, what are dockers? shoes? pants? > in australia, dockers are a football team.. dockers are a brand name for Levi's brand of khakis... tan slacks... chinos... http://www.dockers.com/ > don't dress for your current job, or the one you're about interview > for. dress for the job you want *NEXT*. that's good advice... > From: "vidman design" <vidman at starnet.com.au> > > As a devote of hawiian shirts I want to see this shirt! > Dont know the url of ther shop you got it from by chance? lol i pick 'em up where i can... got about 30 now, but i haven't counted in a while... all sorts of hawaiian and pseudo-hawaiin shirts... i don't think i have any pics of the one i had on yesterday, but you got me thinking about a funny thing to add to my site -- a fashion gallery... no one would come, it would be like boo.com... only faster... From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 08:07:11 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Aug 26 08:07:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design caper In-Reply-To: <39A71232.E94F1A34@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: <200008261307.GAA31386@smtp4-cm.mail.eni.net> > From: "Duncan O'Neill" <dbaxo at ihug.co.nz> > > sites which give general information on which skills or > combination of skills would put me where in the web design industry. > Like which skills are considered 'core' or basic entry requirements, > and which skills will place me at the say for example, the 'low' > end of the spectrum, and what I'd need to work at the 'top' end. > What people hiring web designers expect..... wanna go play Unreal Tournament since i got my work done, but first i thought i'd throw a bone out here: Web Skill & Salary Guide http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=2266 the least grossly inaccurate report i've found... i used it to try to come up with job descriptions... then i wrote my own... but it should give you an idea, even though i may not agree with a lot of it... From bb at misspixel.com Sat Aug 26 09:07:07 2000 From: bb at misspixel.com (Miss Pixel) Date: Sat Aug 26 09:07:07 2000 Subject: [thelist] age References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0008241424350.27478-100000@rac5.wam.umd.edu> <v04220802b5cb1f91a547@[209.213.133.55]> <009001c00e26$6647c6e0$6be30e3f@lonnie> <v04220800b5cb6838928d@[209.213.133.94]> <p04310100b5cc4ffde059@[64.229.73.193]> Message-ID: <004201c00f66$f583a4a0$947dfea9@misspixel> Jeez--how many people do you suppose remember where THAT comes from??? I've still got the 3D vacuum-formed plastic promotional poster for that LP that Reprise sent to record stores! (Spent a good 20 years in the biz.) Anyway, the answer is supposed to be no! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] age > At 10:57 PM -0700 8/24/00, Erika Meyer wrote: > >Is Mick Jagger too old to rock n' roll? > > Yes, but he's too young to die. From lists at icongarden.com Sat Aug 26 09:47:52 2000 From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser) Date: Sat Aug 26 09:47:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <200008261303.GAA18026@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> References: <200008251840.LAA01544@smtp2-cm.mail.eni.net> <200008261303.GAA18026@smtp3-cm.mail.eni.net> Message-ID: <p05000a00b5cd883bfff6@[24.6.48.4]> You and the Art Director at my office would get along masterfully! >> From: "Isaac Forman" <isaac at triplezero.com.au> >> >> > ...or a hawaiian shirt (yes, isaac, i'm wearing one right now, it's >> > got women in 1950s'era bikinis under palm trees)... >> >> dude, what do you want? phone sex? you'll give people the wrong >> impression... ;p > >apparently not... > >> you gotta explain the history of photos you post to admin of you at >> various parties always wearing garish hawaiian shirts. > >http://roselli.org/andrew/pages/016_13A.htm ... i'm the one on the >left side of the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship pool with the >orangey shirt and the black t-shirt... what others have i posted? > >even now, sitting at work on a saturday morning, i have on a lovely >hawaiian shirt... > >> quick q for this thread, what are dockers? shoes? pants? >> in australia, dockers are a football team.. > >dockers are a brand name for Levi's brand of khakis... tan slacks... >chinos... http://www.dockers.com/ > >> don't dress for your current job, or the one you're about interview >> for. dress for the job you want *NEXT*. > >that's good advice... > >> From: "vidman design" <vidman at starnet.com.au> >> >> As a devote of hawiian shirts I want to see this shirt! >> Dont know the url of ther shop you got it from by chance? lol > >i pick 'em up where i can... got about 30 now, but i haven't counted >in a while... all sorts of hawaiian and pseudo-hawaiin shirts... > >i don't think i have any pics of the one i had on yesterday, but you >got me thinking about a funny thing to add to my site -- a fashion >gallery... no one would come, it would be like boo.com... only >faster... > > > >--------------------------------------- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- icongarden.com Making good ideas grow || http://icongarden.com/ From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Aug 26 10:33:51 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sat Aug 26 10:33:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <0634c5633151a80DIAL3@cwcom.net> aardvark wrote on 26/8/00 2:03 pm >i don't think i have any pics of the one i had on yesterday, but you >got me thinking about a funny thing to add to my site -- a fashion >gallery... no one would come, it would be like boo.com... only >faster... And presumably compliant in all sorts of ways (not least being cross-platform) cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From pbi at dircon.co.uk Sat Aug 26 12:48:06 2000 From: pbi at dircon.co.uk (Paul Bradforth) Date: Sat Aug 26 12:48:06 2000 Subject: [thelist] age In-Reply-To: <004201c00f66$f583a4a0$947dfea9@misspixel> Message-ID: <200008261748.SAA47284@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> On 26/8/00 at 10:07 am, bb at misspixel.com (Miss Pixel) wrote: > Jeez--how many people do you suppose remember where THAT comes from??? > > At 10:57 PM -0700 8/24/00, Erika Meyer wrote: Is Mick Jagger too old > > to rock n' roll? > > > > Yes, but he's too young to die. Me, me! I remember it! I really am THAT old... best wishes, Paul http://www.paulbradforth.com http://pbi.freelancers.net XXII Group http://www.xxii.com From framar at interlog.com Sat Aug 26 13:46:00 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Sat Aug 26 13:46:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion: Text to HTML? Message-ID: <p04310101b5cdbf6e086d@[169.254.243.11]> I've got a bit of a problem I'm trying to create a simple set of functions that will return the content of a form as html. As the user adds lineone line two Line three as a new paragraph I was to make it so that it returns as lineone<br> line two<br> <p>Line three as a new paragraph</p> Now I can user stringreplace, but what are the escaped characters for returns? In BBEdit, I would use \r, (or \cr in some apps) but I can't seem to find the correct one to work in cold fusion. Second querstion, related. Do you think I'm better of adding the form info w/html into the DB, or should I convert it when it's fed from the DB (I'm wondering if there are some sort of conversions that may go on behind the scene to screw up my function) Help? -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From madhu at asiacontent.com Sat Aug 26 14:09:52 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:09:52 2000 Subject: [thelist] Win 2K list? In-Reply-To: <20000826170002.1AE02A901E@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827001240.00ba7b00@203.197.60.113> Hi ya'll. Do you know of any evolt-like list for matters relating to Win2K? I have a minor problem with creating new users and seeing that this is more of a web dev list, I didn't want to post it here. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From madhu at asiacontent.com Sat Aug 26 14:19:47 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:19:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <20000826170002.1AE02A901E@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827003041.00bab100@203.197.60.113> At 10:30 PM 8/26/00, you wrote: >http://roselli.org/andrew/pages/016_13A.htm ... i'm the one on the >left side of the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship pool with the >orangey shirt and the black t-shirt... what others have i posted? Hey, it's pretty good to finally be able to put a face to a name on the list (although in the above photograph, I can only make out hair, more hair and sunglasses on Adrian, and very little face :) The shirt stands out though. :P I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages with their photos on 'em. It would be nice to take a look at who all these nice people helping each other actually look like. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From madhu at asiacontent.com Sat Aug 26 14:20:00 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:20:00 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <20000826170002.1AE02A901E@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827001838.00ba7ed0@203.197.60.113> At 10:30 PM 8/26/00, you wrote: >What's football? Ahem. In Australia (where I spent three years studying at Uni. of Tasmania - and got my nickname of "MadMan"), it's a slightly less violent form of rugby. (Just my perception; don't flame me :) In India, football is what would be called "soccer" in USA, I guess. <tip type="interviewing for developer positions" author="Madhu Menon"> For a wonderful article on how to interview for developer positions, visit this URL: http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$20 While I don't necessarily agree with everything there, it makes a good read about how to interview people. </tip> Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From peter at vardus.com Sat Aug 26 14:21:13 2000 From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:21:13 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design industry In-Reply-To: <3956A1B8.E55B2551@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: <4.3.2.20000826201611.01f53bc0@smtp.vardus.net> >You'll probably say, 'well, you've gotta decide what it is you >want to do', but I'd like to get an overview of the whole caper, >and then try and decide from there. yep. If you want to start as an HTML slave (as we call em affectionately), which means you'll be transforming photoshop docs into html, (afterwards the coders put in the code that pulls stuff from databases), you need good html. ok javascript. good css. a I-will-solve-this-and-I-will-grab-every-chance-to-learn mentality, and that's it. You'll get a job (in London at least). If you know basic programming (be it coldfusion, PHP, ... and a month or three experience with databases), you'll have no problem finding a job. It's probably worth just throwing yourself at, say, PHP and mySQL. You'll pick some up in a month or two, and you'll be way ahead of the competition. Definitely better spent time than getting into the bloody details of some html version on some obscure OS with some obscure browser blabla I say. As long as you have that mentality of wanting to learn, you'll easily get there. Give it 2 to 6 more months of learning, and then just get your first job. Good luck Peter From jeff at c4webdesign.com Sat Aug 26 14:31:15 2000 From: jeff at c4webdesign.com (Jeff) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:31:15 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion: Text to HTML? References: <p04310101b5cdbf6e086d@[169.254.243.11]> Message-ID: <004501c00f93$cb485be0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> frank, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Frank <framar at interlog.com> : : Now I can user stringreplace, but what are the : escaped characters for returns? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ meet your new friend: http://www.asciitable.com/ :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Second querstion, related. Do you think I'm better : of adding the form info w/html into the DB, or should : I convert it when it's fed from the DB (I'm wondering : if there are some sort of conversions that may go on : behind the scene to screw up my function) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ definitely do it before. better to do the conversion once than to do the conversion every single time the data is viewed. <tip type="cold fusion" author=".jeff"> did you know that you can wrap functions as deep as you want? #Replace(Replace(form.foo,"'", "\'", "ALL"), Chr(10), "\n", "ALL")# the above would first replace all single-quotes with back-slash-single-quote. then it would replace all line feeds with \n. </tip> good luck, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From james at designframe.com Sat Aug 26 14:33:49 2000 From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:33:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827003041.00bab100@203.197.60.113> Message-ID: <B5CD93B3.16FCA%james@designframe.com> on 8/26/00 3:03 PM, Madhu Menon at madhu at asiacontent.com wrote: > I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages with their > photos on 'em. It would be nice to take a look at who all these nice people > helping each other actually look like. four-legged. brown and white. floppy ears :) James. http://spahr.org/ From r937 at interlog.com Sat Aug 26 15:25:20 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Sat Aug 26 15:25:20 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <01c00f9b$d657ce00$5352059a@default> > I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages > with their photos on 'em. It would be nice to take a look at who > all these nice people helping each other actually look like. hi madhu well, you could check out their sites as noted in their individual sig files... ... or wait for the next release of the evolt site where everyone will have the opportunity to post their info, pics included rudy r937.com From framar at interlog.com Sat Aug 26 16:40:23 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Sat Aug 26 16:40:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion: Text to HTML? In-Reply-To: <004501c00f93$cb485be0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> References: <p04310101b5cdbf6e086d@[169.254.243.11]> <004501c00f93$cb485be0$0600a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <p04310100b5cde564f3d1@[169.254.243.11]> At 12:28 PM -0700 8/26/00, Jeff wrote: >meet your new friend: Ah! Got it. The answer then was use the Ascii character. Thanks Jeff! Got to tell you how much I appreciate your help--all of you. Day by day I'm simply amazed at the quality of this list. This is one of the few subscribes that I've never regretted or let fade away. Time for a big group hug! <g> I don't have much in terms of tips, but the least I can do is to codify the ones I get. <tip type ="Cold Fusion" Author="Jeff <jeff at c4webdesign.com>"> To substitute an invisible character in a string, use it's ASCII value. Example: Replace(formtext, (CH13), "<br>", all) will replace a return charcter in a form. Good for semi-wysiwyg effect. </tip> -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From pbi at dircon.co.uk Sat Aug 26 18:44:39 2000 From: pbi at dircon.co.uk (Paul Bradforth) Date: Sat Aug 26 18:44:39 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827003041.00bab100@203.197.60.113> Message-ID: <200008262344.AAA60561@mailhost1.dircon.co.uk> On 27/8/00 at 12:33 am, madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) wrote: > I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages with > their photos on 'em. It would be nice to take a look at who all these > nice people helping each other actually look like. If you go to the XXII link at the bottom of this mail and click on "profiles" and then "paul", you'll see an indistinct pic of me impersonating the film director Ridley Scott. (Although not intentionally :-) best wishes, Paul http://www.paulbradforth.com http://pbi.freelancers.net XXII Group http://www.xxii.com From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Sat Aug 26 18:47:09 2000 From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill) Date: Sat Aug 26 18:47:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design industry References: <4.3.2.20000826201611.01f53bc0@smtp.vardus.net> Message-ID: <3957F01B.C2FA00A9@ihug.co.nz> Thanks Peter and Aardvark for taking the time to reply. I know it can be tiresome explaining basics, and this is exactly the sort of stuff I was hoping for. cheers, Duncan O'Neill ============== Peter Van Dijck wrote: > yep. > > If you want to start as an HTML slave (as we call em affectionately), which > means you'll be transforming photoshop docs into html, (afterwards the > coders put in the code that pulls stuff from databases), you need good > html. ok javascript. good css. a > I-will-solve-this-and-I-will-grab-every-chance-to-learn mentality, and > that's it. From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz Sat Aug 26 18:55:23 2000 From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill) Date: Sat Aug 26 18:55:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] breaking into the web design industry References: <4.3.2.20000826201611.01f53bc0@smtp.vardus.net> Message-ID: <39A85D86.236637A2@ihug.co.nz> Thanks Peter and Aardvark for taking the time to reply. I know it can be tiresome explaining basics, and this is exactly the sort of stuff I was hoping for. cheers, Duncan O'Neill ============== Peter Van Dijck wrote: > yep. > > If you want to start as an HTML slave (as we call em affectionately), which > means you'll be transforming photoshop docs into html, (afterwards the > coders put in the code that pulls stuff from databases), you need good > html. ok javascript. good css. a > I-will-solve-this-and-I-will-grab-every-chance-to-learn mentality, and > that's it. From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 20:04:21 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Aug 26 20:04:21 2000 Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion: Text to HTML? In-Reply-To: <p04310100b5cde564f3d1@[169.254.243.11]> Message-ID: <200008270104.SAA18789@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tip type="ASP"> To substitute a hard return from a <textarea> form submission (or other text string) with a <br>: Replace(TextField,vbcrlf,"<br>") This accounts for single returns and double returns, keeping the formatting the user entered. It does not, however, wrap the individual paragraphs in a <p></p> block. To break the contents of a <textarea> form submission (or other text string) into individual <p></p> blocks: "<p>" & Replace(TextField,vbcrlf,"</p><p>") & "</p>" Of course, some users may use double hard returns, so you'll need to handle that. There are a number of ways, including replacing all instances of double-returns first, and then replacing all single returns on a second pass. </tip> > From: Frank > > [tip type ="Cold Fusion" Author="Jeff > <jeff at c4webdesign.com>"] > > To substitute an invisible character in a string, > use it's ASCII value. > Example: Replace(formtext, (CH13), "<br>", all) > will replace a return > charcter in a form. Good for semi-wysiwyg effect. > > [/tip] From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 20:20:28 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Aug 26 20:20:28 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827003041.00bab100@203.197.60.113> Message-ID: <200008270120.SAA17094@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > From: Madhu Menon > > Hey, it's pretty good to finally be able to put a > face to a name on the > list (although in the above photograph, I can > only make out hair, more hair > and sunglasses on Adrian, and very little face :) i'm down to shaving once a week... the rest of the folks include locals and people up from austin, tx... we wanted to fill the pool with beer, but we didn't have 70 gallons-worth to waste... > The shirt stands out though. :P thanks... the t-shirt underneath is my "disgruntled worker" shirt from punkassgear.com... my hawaiian shirts are often frames for my t-shirts... sometimes they cover it up so i don't affend clergy or PTA members... also the only time you'll see me without boots when it's not a funeral (depending who's it is)... so where's your pic? and hey, if any of you watch CNN or ESPN and you see a commercial advertising buffalo, ny (sometime after september 7), i'm the stupid-looking mope laying on the shag carpet... they paid a man to rub my belly so i'd laugh my lines, and they shaved my goatee into a funny shape... and they wouldn't let me wear my hawaiian shirt... and the pants were two sizes too small... ok, i'm sharing too much... From isaac at triplezero.com.au Sat Aug 26 22:43:33 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Sat Aug 26 22:43:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] cf vs asp In-Reply-To: <001f01c00f1c$e089c4c0$0200000a@pavilion> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBAEBPDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > Im checking out CF and cant figure which is which. > The price tags on these range from $5000 to $195 for ColdFusion Studio 2 > Year Subscription > which is which?? > I currently use Homesite 4.5 and it looks like CF studio is what I am > looking for. > How does this software stack up?? Will it be able to do what I want it to?? > http://commerce.allaire.com/ecommerce/store/orderform.cfm > this is the purchase page... if the software does what I think it can I will > want to buy it. Allaire has the CF Application Servers (CF Express, CF Professional and CF Enterprise last time I checked). CF Studio is a souped up version of HomeSite for CF developers. You can just as easily use any other text editor if you don't absolutely have to have the advanced functions. Regarding your other question, working with Access DB's and CF is ultra-easy. I suggest that you keep HomeSite, download an app server evaluation or CF Express, and play around before you commit to anything. isaac From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 27 03:22:49 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sun Aug 27 03:22:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <0df1d0524081b80DIAL1@cwcom.net> Madhu Menon wrote on 26/8/00 9:03 pm >>http://roselli.org/andrew/pages/016_13A.htm ... i'm the one on the >>left side of the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship pool with the >>orangey shirt and the black t-shirt... what others have i posted? > >Hey, it's pretty good to finally be able to put a face to a name on the >list (although in the above photograph, I can only make out hair, more hair >and sunglasses on Adrian, and very little face :) >The shirt stands out though. :P http://www.easyweb.co.uk/pics/ Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From djc at five2one.org Sun Aug 27 12:32:43 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Aug 27 12:32:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) References: <0df1d0524081b80DIAL1@cwcom.net> Message-ID: <39A9553D.3010107@five2one.org> Martin wrote: > > Madhu Menon wrote on 26/8/00 9:03 pm > > >>http://roselli.org/andrew/pages/016_13A.htm ... i'm the one on the > >>left side of the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship pool with the > >>orangey shirt and the black t-shirt... what others have i posted? > > > >Hey, it's pretty good to finally be able to put a face to a name on the > >list (although in the above photograph, I can only make out hair, more > http://members.evolt.org/marlene/DC2000 Here are some of the admin members from this last Febuary when some of us got together in Washington DC, where marlene was good enough to put all of us up. Lots of drinks, a tour of the national capital, and a ton of fun(and finally putting a name voice to some of the email address' :).. .djc. From madhu at asiacontent.com Sun Aug 27 13:50:45 2000 From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Aug 27 13:50:45 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: Pics (was: Dress for Success) In-Reply-To: <20000827170001.EBE4EA8EEA@lists.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000827232716.00b71220@203.197.60.113> At 10:30 PM 8/27/00, you wrote: >so where's your pic? Aah. 'tis is a tragedy indeed, that for a guy who's been online since 1994, I actually haven't found the time to put up a personal page yet. Every time I try and take a vacation to do creative stuff like that, I find myself changing jobs. Unfortunately, managing large web sites means sacrificing your life, but I didn't want to get a job in a "web design company", working with clueless clients who insisted on 410 K sized home pages, animated buttons etc (e.g., http://www.lgindia.com/). I don't consider myself very photogenic, what with my thyroid problem making me overweight. Oh well, I digress... <tip type="keeping readers on your site" author="Madhu Menon"> You spend all that money on advertising your site, and your stats tell you that the average user session goes across two pages only? What on earth? If you have a content site, the "where do I go from here" factor is very important. Once a person has finished reading an article, he/she looks around for something else to click on. Make sure your site provides links to related resources and/or articles from every page. For example, an article on using Napster to its fullest could also link to a news story on Napster. Positioning of these links is vital. While many sites provide these resources on the top right or on the side panels, experience has shown me that the best place to put them is right after the article. This is where the reader has finished reading, and this is where you want to catch him/her. Some may scroll up and see, but not everyone will. This is the virtual equivalent of grabbing someone by the hand and dragging them along through your site (except not so rough). Do it and you will see your page views go up. </tip> Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon Webmaster, India.CNET.com http://India.CNET.com The source for computers and technology From framar at interlog.com Sun Aug 27 13:51:35 2000 From: framar at interlog.com (Frank) Date: Sun Aug 27 13:51:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] CF: The best way to learn Fusebox Message-ID: <p04310100b5cf114e171c@[24.43.66.191]> Allright. I've decided that I'm going to adopt the Fusebox convention. Now I've got a dozen or so apps that I've created since my first newbie app to todays, where I'm a competent intermediate. Question 1: What would you recommend as a gentle path to learning the spec from scratch? (I'm at the stage where I understand what I'm doing, what options are available to me, but I still have to think of each little thing I do, as opposed to instinctively letting my fingers to the work). Question 2: Is there a way of retrofitting without doing a 100% rebuild of each app? Question 2: In retrofitting, what are the sort of pitfalls I might look out for? Thanks -- Frank Marion Loofah Communications frank at loofahcom.com http://www.loofahcom.com From warren at wordsandpictures.com Sun Aug 27 14:26:47 2000 From: warren at wordsandpictures.com (Warren Wight) Date: Sun Aug 27 14:26:47 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web Message-ID: <B5CEE3BB.6E89%warren@wordsandpictures.com> I have a client who wants to sell printing to his existing customers online. What he is asking from me, is a means to have the customer go online, choose a brochure template, enter their custom information into text fields in a form, and then submit their information. Easy so far....but he then wants to dynamically generate a pdf proof for the customer to view and approve online. So I need to figure out how to take the information the customer inputs, insert this information into the brochure they chose, with formatted text, etc., have the pdf file produced and loaded into a browser, for the customer to proof and ok. Can this be done? There is something similar at http://www.yourdigitalprinter.com (the E-Print Demo). Actually since I have very little programming knowledge I will probably be hiring some freelance code gurus to help with this project. I just have to get a bid together for Monday (aaauuuggghhh) morning, so I am trying to get a handle on what's involved. Thanks in advance, warren "working on Sunday again" wight wordsandpictures.com warrenworld.com From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 14:35:23 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 27 14:35:23 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web In-Reply-To: <B5CEE3BB.6E89%warren@wordsandpictures.com> Message-ID: <200008271935.MAA03509@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> yes, it can be done... i've done it with ASP, and i know pretty much all other languages/platforms can do it, too... the PDF Bible has some decent info to get started, and there are lots of resources (including MSDN) for ASP folks... it's really not as hard as you might think... your form will need to manage the user's expectations about amount of text, formatting, etc... given the goal, you're going to need to save the PDFs you generate as well... i don't know if you'll allow different images, but you'll need to account for that if you do... if you can give us a better idea of the server/OS/language, we may be able to offer more help... > From: Warren Wight > > What he is asking from me, is a means to have the > customer go online, choose > a brochure template, enter their custom > information into text fields in a > form, and then submit their information. > > Easy so far....but he then wants to dynamically > generate a pdf proof for the > customer to view and approve online. So I need to > figure out how to take the > information the customer inputs, insert this > information into the brochure > they chose, with formatted text, etc., have the > pdf file produced and loaded > into a browser, for the customer to proof and ok. From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 14:37:36 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 27 14:37:36 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) In-Reply-To: <200008270120.SAA17094@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200008271938.MAA09068@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> found a pic of me in the shirt i was telling isaac about: http://roselli.org/keg3.jpg the cups on their bikini tops look like fishies... really cool shirt, very tasteful... the guy with me, well, that's up to him if he wants to reveal himself... From warren at warrenworld.com Sun Aug 27 14:51:09 2000 From: warren at warrenworld.com (Warren) Date: Sun Aug 27 14:51:09 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web In-Reply-To: <200008271935.MAA03509@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <B5CEE970.6E8E%warren@warrenworld.com> thanks for the quick response! I'm not sure what platform the server will be running on, the company they are hosted with right now has unix and nt boxes. I guess I am trying to figure out how long it will take programmers who know what they are doing to hack something like this out. (And if it could even be done.) There is also going to be an online database of clients, info on client, username, password stuff that will have to be tied in with an online registration/log-in procedure. Just trying to put a bid together and I'm in the "gathering info" stage! This list rocks, warren > From: "aardvark" > yes, it can be done... i've done it with ASP, and i know pretty much all other > languages/platforms can do it, too... the PDF Bible has some decent info to > get started, and > there are lots of resources (including MSDN) for ASP folks... it's really not > as hard as you might > think... > > your form will need to manage the user's expectations about amount of text, > formatting, etc... > given the goal, you're going to need to save the PDFs you generate as well... > i don't know if > you'll allow different images, but you'll need to account for that if you > do... > > if you can give us a better idea of the server/OS/language, we may be able to > offer more help... > From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Sun Aug 27 15:03:27 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Sun Aug 27 15:03:27 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web References: <B5CEE970.6E8E%warren@warrenworld.com> Message-ID: <008201c01061$e81164a0$557b5acf@mwardenlaptop> > thanks for the quick response! I'm not sure what platform the server will be > running on, the company they are hosted with right now has unix and nt > boxes. > > I guess I am trying to figure out how long it will take programmers who know > what they are doing to hack something like this out. (And if it could even > be done.) Yes, it can surely be done. In fact, as aardvark pointed out, it's probably easier than you think. There are relatively few things that you need to keep in mind (all of which you can find at the previously-given links). If you're programmers know ASP, it will be quite simple. And I assume that other languages probably wouldn't be much more difficult. Nail down the environment (server os, server software, installed components, etc.), hand those specs to your programmers, and ask them for a quote on time, etc. The best that the people on this list can do is give you a general idea, since we haven't generated on-the-fly PDFs in all environments and in all languages (I've only done it using ASP). And other factors come into play, such as are you developing this to be easily expandable in the future (upload a logo to include in the brochure, upload custom fonts, add text effects like backwards text (which you would probably have to generate an image on-the-fly and include it in the on-the-fly PDF... because I don't think PDF can do that)). Ya know, stuff like that. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From r937 at interlog.com Sun Aug 27 16:25:51 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback) Date: Sun Aug 27 16:25:51 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <01c0106d$766b5840$2458059a@default> > http://roselli.org/keg3.jpg > >the guy with me, well, that's up to him if he wants to reveal himself... let me guess -- your granddad? i notice he's wearing one o' them cool <body></body> t-shirts let's pay for this offtopicness... <tip> for those who haven't seen it before -- moock.org/webdesign/ </tip> rudy r937.com From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 27 17:19:16 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:19:16 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <070232319221b80DIAL4@cwcom.net> Daniel J. Cody wrote on 27/8/00 6:51 pm >http://members.evolt.org/marlene/DC2000 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/pics/dc/optimised/ There are some admin friends and relations mixed in there too. > >Here are some of the admin members from this last Febuary when some of >us got together in Washington DC, where marlene was good enough to put >all of us up. Lots of drinks, a tour of the national capital, and a ton >of fun(and finally putting a name voice to some of the email address' :).. Hey, I *nearly* spoke to the famous aardvaark last week. Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 27 17:19:17 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:19:17 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: Pics (was: Dress for Success) Message-ID: <070c12419221b80DIAL4@cwcom.net> <tip type='no usability means no users'> Madhu Menon wrote on 27/8/00 8:09 pm >You spend all that money on advertising your site, and your stats tell you >that the average user session goes across two pages only? What on earth? Or worse, one page. Way back I worked on a site which only had the tiniest preview unless you registered (no, *not* a porn site). Registration usability sucked and so hey, no customers. The site stats were almost entirely composed of the home page. The site had had significant ad money spent on promoting it, so lots of people hit the home page, but got no further. So folks, think safely with your usability. This stuff matters. </tip> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sun Aug 27 17:39:33 2000 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:39:33 2000 Subject: [thelist] test - ignore Message-ID: <075454039221b80DIAL4@cwcom.net> asdadsa From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 27 17:44:43 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:44:43 2000 Subject: [thelist] Re: Pics (was: Dress for Success) Message-ID: <0f8925644221b80DIAL2@cwcom.net> <tip type='no usability means no users'> Madhu Menon wrote on 27/8/00 8:09 pm >You spend all that money on advertising your site, and your stats tell you >that the average user session goes across two pages only? What on earth? Or worse, one page. Way back I worked on a site which only had the tiniest preview unless you registered (no, *not* a porn site). Registration usability sucked and so hey, no customers. The site stats were almost entirely composed of the home page. The site had had significant ad money spent on promoting it, so lots of people hit the home page, but got no further. So folks, think safely with your usability. This stuff matters. </tip> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From warren at warrenworld.com Sun Aug 27 17:46:55 2000 From: warren at warrenworld.com (Warren) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:46:55 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web In-Reply-To: <008201c01061$e81164a0$557b5acf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: <B5CF129D.6E9C%warren@warrenworld.com> Matt, I don't have any programmers (YET), I am basically a one-man show who is starting to get bigger clients with much more complicated needs. If I get the contract I will be hiring a couple of freelancers to complete the project. Speaking of hiring freelancers, has anyone on the list had success either hiring freelancers or freelancing for other list members who aren't geographically in the same area. thanks, warren > From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at odyssey-design.com> > Yes, it can surely be done. In fact, as aardvark pointed out, it's probably > easier than you think. There are relatively few things that you need to keep > in mind (all of which you can find at the previously-given links). If you're > programmers know ASP, it will be quite simple. And I assume that other > languages probably wouldn't be much more difficult. Nail down the > environment (server os, server software, installed components, etc.), hand > those specs to your programmers, and ask them for a quote on time, etc. The > best that the people on this list can do is give you a general idea, since > we haven't generated on-the-fly PDFs in all environments and in all > languages (I've only done it using ASP). And other factors come into play, > such as are you developing this to be easily expandable in the future > (upload a logo to include in the brochure, upload custom fonts, add text > effects like backwards text (which you would probably have to generate an > image on-the-fly and include it in the on-the-fly PDF... because I don't > think PDF can do that)). Ya know, stuff like that. > > -- > mattwarden > mattwarden.com From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Aug 27 17:54:35 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Sun Aug 27 17:54:35 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web Message-ID: <0764a4254221b80DIAL4@cwcom.net> Warren Wight wrote on 27/8/00 8:26 pm >Actually since I have very little programming knowledge I will probably be >hiring some freelance code gurus to help with this project. I just have to >get a bid together for Monday (aaauuuggghhh) morning, so I am trying to get >a handle on what's involved. http://www.activepdf.com/ Bear in mind that this is an NT/ASP solution. Cheers Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ email: martin at members.evolt.org PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 snailmail: 30 Shandon Place http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 Edinburgh, Scotland From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Sun Aug 27 18:09:11 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Sun Aug 27 18:09:11 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web References: <B5CF129D.6E9C%warren@warrenworld.com> Message-ID: <00e501c0107b$dc0c7680$557b5acf@mwardenlaptop> > Speaking of hiring freelancers, has anyone on the list had success either > hiring freelancers or freelancing for other list members who aren't > geographically in the same area. Absolutely! Business is conducted between list members frequently. I myself have taken on projects from three different list members. It always goes well... and I have my own theories about that. I think we're a little more willing to go the extra yard for someone who is a member of a community that we participate in every day. Shoot, we even have an artivle category named "Jobs" just for this purpose (well, non-freelance jobs are posted there too, but you get the picture). -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From pdb103 at york.ac.uk Sun Aug 27 18:31:07 2000 From: pdb103 at york.ac.uk (Peter Bancroft) Date: Sun Aug 27 18:31:07 2000 Subject: [thelist] Perl Problem. Message-ID: <009f01c0107e$71aa8c20$2900a8c0@beastikos> A problem a friend has with a perl problem.. unfortunately, my Perl really isn't very good. Any of you know the problem? Algian says thanks in advance :) -Peter #get the time now and set time limit my $now = time; my $secs = 18000; #get the file and delete as appropriate opendir(TEMP, "c:/my/directory/here/"); for (readdir(TEMP)) { if ($_ =~ /.save/g || $_ eq "." || $_ eq "..") {;} else { my $atime = (stat "c:/my/directory/here/$_")[8]; print "$_ $atime "; if (($now - $atime) > $secs) { unlink("c:/my/directory/here/$_"); } } } closedir(TEMP); the problem is in the $atime. I made the perl print out the $_ which is the name of a file and the atimeof that file (atime being the last time the file was accessed. the problem is that for the 2 files in that directory is that they both give me the same atime and i know for a fact that one of those 2 files hasn't been accessed for at least 1.5 months. and i tried using other files i haven't accessed and it still won't work. Does anyone have any clue why this is? I've been trying to change the code here and there but it still gives the same result the atime doesn't change for some reason so the files with over 5 hours are never deleted. From warren at warrenworld.com Sun Aug 27 19:49:44 2000 From: warren at warrenworld.com (Warren) Date: Sun Aug 27 19:49:44 2000 Subject: [thelist] Automatically generated PDF proof on the web In-Reply-To: <00e501c0107b$dc0c7680$557b5acf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: <B5CF2F6C.6EA5%warren@warrenworld.com> cool....that's good to hear! This list has been a great resource for me...I think I would feel more comfortable hiring some of the list folks than locals... now if I can just get this proposal written.... warren > From: "Warden, Matt" > Absolutely! Business is conducted between list members frequently. I myself > have taken on projects from three different list members. It always goes > well... and I have my own theories about that. I think we're a little more > willing to go the extra yard for someone who is a member of a community that > we participate in every day. > > Shoot, we even have an artivle category named "Jobs" just for this purpose > (well, non-freelance jobs are posted there too, but you get the picture). From StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Sun Aug 27 21:49:53 2000 From: StevenS at prose.dpi.qld.gov.au (Stevens, Sharon) Date: Sun Aug 27 21:49:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <EF8480F87336D311AC1F00A0C9FC03320959D3E0@PIBCRMEXH001> > >What's football? > > Ahem. In Australia (where I spent three years studying at Uni. of Tasmania > > - and got my nickname of "MadMan"), it's a slightly less violent form of > rugby. (Just my perception; don't flame me :) > there are 4 different types of football in Australia - the type of football that was being referred to is Australian Rules Football (or otherwise known as aerial ping-pong), there is also Rugby (as in the game played in heaven) and the thugs version known as Rugby League, there is also soccer. ;o) Schaz I know I owe a tip for this one but my brain is fuzzled from the paint fumes (I'm renovating atm!) From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 22:09:57 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Aug 27 22:09:57 2000 Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 screen caps Message-ID: <200008280310.UAA03110@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> http://www.computerarts.co.uk/photoshop/photoshop6.asp - Interface & tools - Vector design - Special effects and layer effects - Web-specific - ImageReady 3.0 - Text handling - Workflow & miscellaneous you can read a little bit from this older news article: http://www.computerarts.co.uk/news/story.asp?newsFeature=20520&cat= From lisa at koolfish.com Sun Aug 27 22:17:49 2000 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew) Date: Sun Aug 27 22:17:49 2000 Subject: [thelist] Dress for Success (was: HTML test) Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAOEJHCAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages with their photos on 'em. It would be nice to take a look at who all these nice people helping each other actually look like. www.koolfish.com/frosty Lisa From isaac at triplezero.com.au Sun Aug 27 22:37:42 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Sun Aug 27 22:37:42 2000 Subject: [thelist] accessibility finding: another victory for the visually impaired Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOECDDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> --- Group finds SOCOG Olympics website discriminatory --- The Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission has found that the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games (SOCOG) has discriminated against a blind Sydney man by not providing an Olympics website he could access. Bruce Maguire, 42, has already fought a battle against SOCOG and won, over the production of a ticket book and souvenir program accessible to visually impaired people. SOCOG has now been told to do all that is necessary by September 15 to make its website accessible to visually impaired people. If SOCOG does not comply, Mr Maguire will be able to seek compensation from the Games organising committee. --- here's the actual article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/nat/newsnat-28aug2000-53.htm From gsd at mac.com Sun Aug 27 22:57:54 2000 From: gsd at mac.com (George Donnelly) Date: Sun Aug 27 22:57:54 2000 Subject: [thelist] list member photos (was Dress for Success (was: HTML test)) In-Reply-To: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAOEJHCAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> Message-ID: <B5D01288.14C3A%gsd@mac.com> http://www.cyklotron.com/journal/personal/images/beard3_jpg Regards, GEORGE DONNELLY george at cyklotron.com http://cyklotron.com/ The things that count most in life are usually the things that cannot be counted. --Bernard Meltzer > I was wondering if any other list members have personal pages with their > photos on 'em. From lisa at koolfish.com Sun Aug 27 23:28:10 2000 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew) Date: Sun Aug 27 23:28:10 2000 Subject: [thelist] re: css-margin-right property. Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAGEJKCAAA.lisa@koolfish.com> Sorry for such a tardy reply, too many visitors these past few days and 10 paracetamols later.... I still haven't worked it out with css. Rudy wrote "by the way, did you figure out which one of the 5 body tag attributes you had that was extraneous?" I think it was the marginright="0" because it is the only margin attribute I haven't used before in the body tag and it didn't work anyway. I made the background image longer and width and applied the following to the style sheet: BODY {margin-right: 0; background-color: white; background-repeat: no-repeat;} Fine in IE But Netscape ignored it. www.richinstyles bug table says this is supported in Netscape 4 but my 4.7 is having none of it. So is my only option to make a whopping big tile? Rudy wrote: "the answer to your immediate problem would be to make the bar part of the nav bar image transparent" But that bar is part of the design and needs to be seen. The only solution I can think of is to make the gradient bar tail off to the right so it doesn't abruptly ends with white space around it in Netscape. "anyhow, I'm hardly ever in a position to need to set the body margin to zero, to get something out to the very edge of the window, so I guess I would probably try it with css first, check it in ie4 and Netscape 4.04 (a notoriously bad browser for css) and go with the body tag attributes if it didn't work in both of these browsers flawlessly the first time" But what is the correct body attribute to use to get an image jutted up against the right side? "try shrinking your browser window vertically so that a v.scrollbar appears in Netscape. is the image now up against the edge as you wanted?" yes, so are you telling me I can't change this in Netscape, I will have to have the white space there whether I like it or not? Thanks everyone for all the info so far, and I thought this little margin problem was gonna be easier :) http://www.lawtonasia.com/test Lisa. From isaac at triplezero.com.au Sun Aug 27 23:41:53 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (Isaac Forman) Date: Sun Aug 27 23:41:53 2000 Subject: [thelist] accessibility finding: another victory for the visually impaired In-Reply-To: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOECDDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBOECEDIAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au> > Group finds SOCOG Olympics website discriminatory In addition to this email, I've just heard on the radio that SOCOG is complaining that it'll be too expensive and difficult for them to fix the site before the Olympics begin. So, everyone who thinks this kinda shit *won't* happen to them, think again. Take the simple steps to making your site accessible in the first place, and you won't be forced to endure the resulting problems later. isaac