From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Mon Oct  7 00:02:01 2002
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Mon Oct  7 00:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Sep 30, 2002
Message-ID: <200210070501.g9751FJN030357@leo.evolt.org>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Sep 30, 2002 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20020930.html

Week at a glance listing at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/week/c/Week-of-Mon-20020930.html

Search the tips at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/


Harvest Summary
---------------

Number of messages: 441
Number of tips    : 10

Tip Authors
-----------

Ben Dyer (1)
Dave Cantrell (1)
Dunstan Orchard (1)
Jay Blanchard (1)
kimberly carroll (1)
Michael Pemberton (1)
miinx (1)
Rob Schumann (1)
Seth Bienek (1)
Tony in tears
Crockford (1)

Tip Types
---------

client admin (1)
ColdFusion (1)
css: default font sizes (1)
helpdesk support (1)
Network Tools (1)
Offering Advice (1)
web design (1)


From Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk  Mon Oct  7 02:59:00 2002
From: Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk (Bird, Graham)
Date: Mon Oct  7 02:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: IE 5.0 PC and CSS inline elements
Message-ID: <8A058F0155A3D611BA020002A53FB676014FE4A0@mercury.rspb.org.uk>

Thanks to all for the input.

Cheers,

Graham


From peter at poorbuthappy.com  Mon Oct  7 03:24:01 2002
From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (PeterV)
Date: Mon Oct  7 03:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML developer question
In-Reply-To: <sd6f1ab3.083@mail.westmarine.com>
Message-ID: <000801c26dda$c11fcca0$eab9fea9@peter>

Hi,
I'm defining an XFML format - a major design goal is ease of
implementation. We have two possibilities of implementing trees. My
question is: which one is it easier to write implementations (export,
import, ...) for, in a variety of languages (from JAVA to Perl to
Moveabletype's template system)?? The language we are designing is
http://xfml.org

<facet id="12">
  <title>Things to do</title>
  <description>Activities, events, etc</description>
  <topic id="camping">
    <name>Camping</name>
    <topic id="rough">
      <name>roughing it</name>
    </topic>
    <topic id="wimpy">
      <name>Comfort Plus</name>
    </topic>
  </topic>
  <topic id="sightseeing">
    <name>Sight Seeing</name>
  </topic>
  <topic id="eating">
    <name>eating</name>
  <topic>
</facet>

Or alternatively:

<facet id="12">
  <title>Things to do</title>
<description>Activities, events, etc</description>
</facet>

  <topic id="camping" facetid="12">
    <name>Camping</name>
  <topic>
    <topic id="rough" facetid="12" parentTopicid="camping">
      <name>roughing it</name>
    </topic>
    <topic id="very_rough" facetid="12" parentTopicid="rough">
      <name>very rough camping</name>
    </topic>
[and so on ...]

Peter




From jon at daemon.com.au  Mon Oct  7 04:01:01 2002
From: jon at daemon.com.au (jon at daemon.com.au)
Date: Mon Oct  7 04:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML developer question
In-Reply-To: <000801c26dda$c11fcca0$eab9fea9@peter>
References: <000801c26dda$c11fcca0$eab9fea9@peter>
Message-ID: <20021007171011.6580.5@bepc.1033949043.fake>

> <facet id="12">
>   <title>Things to do</title>
>   <description>Activities, events, etc</description> <topic id="camping">
>     <name>Camping</name>
>     <topic id="rough">
>       <name>roughing it</name>
>     </topic>
>     <topic id="wimpy">
>       <name>Comfort Plus</name>
>     </topic>
>   </topic>
>   <topic id="sightseeing">
>     <name>Sight Seeing</name>
>   </topic>
>   <topic id="eating">
>     <name>eating</name>
>   <topic>
> </facet>
>
> Or alternatively:
>
> <facet id="12">
>   <title>Things to do</title>
> <description>Activities, events, etc</description> </facet>
>
>   <topic id="camping" facetid="12">
>     <name>Camping</name>
>   <topic>
>     <topic id="rough" facetid="12" parentTopicid="camping">
>       <name>roughing it</name>
>     </topic>
>     <topic id="very_rough" facetid="12" parentTopicid="rough">
>       <name>very rough camping</name>
>     </topic>
> [and so on ...]


Im not sure whay you're asking this, most of languages have an XML parser
that will handle all the horrible stuff for developers.

If someone had to develop it by hand, then you would make it easiest on
them to only use <tags/>, and not use attributes.

Hence you would get something like this:

<facet>
	<id>12</id>
	<title>Things to do</title>
	<description>Activities, events, etc</description>
</facet>
<topic>
	<id>camping</id>
	<facetid>12</facetid>

... etc etc

Its a bit bulkier than using attributes, but it makes the parser writers
job a lot easier.

Jon.


From russgri at bellsouth.net  Mon Oct  7 06:29:01 2002
From: russgri at bellsouth.net (Russell Griechen)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Browser bug or table help__Now blog
References: <4272863B-D92A-11D6-B7AA-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com> <3DA0534B.2020502@brucew.com>
Message-ID: <008001c26d8b$39c3a500$af74fea9@russgri>


> Andrew Boardman wrote:
>
> > I created a small Web log for a friend at

Andrew,
There is a portion of my site that would be suitable for a blog.

What software do you use in producing this blog.
Is there an OpenSource available?

Russell Griechen




From giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 06:29:06 2002
From: giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk (Michael CAREY)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:29:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Hosting
Message-ID: <001b01c26dd3$cee16440$374b86d9@carey>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
My brinkster account has become unreliable.
Therefore I want to pay for some asp hosting but am on a very tight budget.
Ideas??

Thanks in advance

Giles
www.elementdesign.biz

--



From Kevin.Sedgley at pml.ac.uk  Mon Oct  7 06:29:16 2002
From: Kevin.Sedgley at pml.ac.uk (Kevin Sedgley)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:29:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] Online database viewers
Message-ID: <000101c26de1$20e03930$d3a2abc0@npm.ac.uk>

Hi all,

I'm developing a database with a web-front, and I need some help with me
research.

Does anybody know of a generic system that displays standard tabular
data, and are there any examples of its use on the web? I'm looking for
good and bad.

Cheers,

Kev.



From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 06:35:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Hosting
In-Reply-To: <001b01c26dd3$cee16440$374b86d9@carey>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEIEKOFGAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hiya Giles

We do non-commercial ASP hosting for ?20pa if you're interested.  Drop me an
email offline if you want to know more.

Norman


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael CAREY
> Sent: 07 October 2002 08:33
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] ASP Hosting
>
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> My brinkster account has become unreliable.
> Therefore I want to pay for some asp hosting but am on a very
> tight budget.
> Ideas??
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Giles
> www.elementdesign.biz
>
> --
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Oct  7 06:49:01 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Online database viewers
In-Reply-To: <000101c26de1$20e03930$d3a2abc0@npm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <003d01c26df7$78dbdde0$0101c80a@hershel>

> Does anybody know of a generic system that displays standard tabular
> data, and are there any examples of its use on the web? I'm
> looking for
> good and bad.

Ken Kogler recently shared this URL:
http://www.2enetworx.com/dev/projects/tableeditor.asp

Hershel


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 06:52:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css layout
In-Reply-To: <000101c26de1$20e03930$d3a2abc0@npm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKENIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an image!  I have changed
the css file and the layout just doesn't want to work with me!

I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a single row but alas
nothing :( this is the problem page
http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

and this is the page I want it to look like but with an image next to the title
class

Cheers
Andrew


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 06:53:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Oct  7 06:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css layout missing link
In-Reply-To: <003d01c26df7$78dbdde0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOENIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an image!  I have changed
the css file and the layout just doesn't want to work with me!

I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a single row but alas
nothing :( this is the problem page
http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

and this is the page I want it to look like but with an image next to the title
class
http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.html

Cheers
Andrew

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/02



From nadeem at essex.ac.uk  Mon Oct  7 07:01:01 2002
From: nadeem at essex.ac.uk (Ahmad, N)
Date: Mon Oct  7 07:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Hosting
Message-ID: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DAA1@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>

Giles>
My brinkster account has become unreliable.
Therefore I want to pay for some asp hosting but am on a very tight budget.
Ideas??


Nadeem>
I use these people http://www.netweaver.com/nw/web.php?page=windows from ?45
per year in the UK, these people http://dc-hosting.com/ do it for ?25 per
year. For UK web hosting requirements http://www.whichhosts.com/ are an
excellent reference site.

HTH

Nadeem


From gtoland at xwaresys.com  Mon Oct  7 08:47:01 2002
From: gtoland at xwaresys.com (Gregory J Toland)
Date: Mon Oct  7 08:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX TabStrip Control
Message-ID: <000301c26e07$e2b93450$b504a8c0@md.corp.chm.net>

I am using Microsoft Visual InterDev 6.0.  I am having trouble implementing
the tabstrip control in my HTML page.  Does anyone have any examples I could
look at?  Anything I need to be aware of?  Every time I insert the tabs and
then switch over to another view the tabs disappear.


Gregory J Toland
Sr. Systems Architect
CHM Inc.
(301) 899-2601 X317 (Office)
(703) 655-5766 (Mobile)
gtoland at chm.net



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 08:56:01 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Mon Oct  7 08:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wordsearch in ASP/Access
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523079B5@SBS>
Message-ID: <004701c26e08$dbb71e00$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

> As mentioned earlier you'll match searchterms within words, but if you
> really can't live with that you're either going to have to use SQLServer
for
> the extended full-text indexing methods that are available, or clean up
your
> results in your ASP code afterwards. (A regular expression that checks
word
> boundaries would do the trick).

I have been racking my brains over this all day and now my head hurts :(
I have read all I can find about regular expressions and I think I
understand how they work, but I can't for the life of me suss out how to get
an exact word match by using them. I have considered adding a space before
and after the word, but this won't work if the word is at the beginning or
end of a sentence. Is this really possible using Access?

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk



From bking at impact-technologies.com  Mon Oct  7 09:04:02 2002
From: bking at impact-technologies.com (Brian W King)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:04:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491372F2455@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6E3@ITG_B02>

Contrary to the belief of many web coders, there has never been a court
judgment that creates a statute regarding Internet content and the ADA.
There have, on the contrary, been several cases lodged against web content
providers such as AOL that have been settled out of court.  This may get up
some dander here, but the prevailing opinion in the legal arena seems to be
that the only way the web content will fall under the ADA regulations is if
Congress actually amends the law.  Remember, the law in the US is based on
intent of the law not necessarily the letter of it.  The Internet was not
even a coined word at the time that the ADA regulations were conceived.
Several judges have made statements in cases that were eventually settled
out of court that, because Title III nor the ADA access guidelines directly
addressed, the cannot be required to conform to any access standards.

Read the facts here in the following article on law.com.  (beware of the URL
wrap).
http://www.law.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/View&
c=LawArticle&cid=1032128683422&t=LawArticleTech






From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Oct  7 09:15:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wordsearch in ASP/Access
Message-ID: <01c26e0b$af6199e0$c1aa1dd1@rudy>

> I have considered adding a space before and after the word,
> but this [an exact word match] won't work if the word is at the
> beginning or end of a sentence.

or comma, or period, or question mark, or quotes, or parentheses...

> Is this really possible using Access?

not intelligently

access and sql/server, and almost all databases, support the LIKE operator,
which utilizes simple character string comparison

to my way of thinking, this is adequate for most purposes

see
http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/ateQuestionNResponse/0,289625,sid13_ci
d474892_tax285649,00.html

sorry for the long url

rudy



From jacborg at mac.com  Mon Oct  7 09:15:13 2002
From: jacborg at mac.com (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:15:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] outline formating w/css
Message-ID: <0BFF8C13-D9FF-11D6-A9EC-000502A39AB6@mac.com>

I need to format a text outline, similar to legal text with nested
numbered paragraph lists...

The {content: } property does not seem to be well implemented, even in
Mozilla 1.1 (or I'm growing gremlins between my ears).

Anyway, for backward compatibility's sake can think of two scenarios:
1	use two column nested tables with first column having the
	paragraph number and the second the actual content.
2	leave the paras as <p></p> with the numbers added manually
	then adding a :first-line css rule for 5+ browsers to
	indent out the first line.

any valid arguments in favour of one or the other, or maybe a different
sceme?

thanks



From john at evolt.org.uk  Mon Oct  7 09:15:22 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:15:22 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6E3@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAAEGOCKAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Brian W King
% Sent: 07 October 2002 15:00
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
% pertain to Internet Content?
%
% Contrary to the belief of many web coders, there has never been a court
% judgment that creates a statute regarding Internet content and the ADA.
% There have, on the contrary, been several cases lodged against web content
% providers such as AOL that have been settled out of court.

Which is what this is about:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/10/06/2340204.shtml?tid=103

Test cases are necessary, and they have to go to a verdict
before you get precedent.

I, for one, am rather hoping that this scores.  The spirit
of the law in this case is clear.  The letter supports
that interpretation when/if a court cements a precedent.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 09:31:01 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wordsearch in ASP/Access
References: <01c26e0b$af6199e0$c1aa1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <005f01c26e0d$bfc0a9a0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

> > Is this really possible using Access?
>
> not intelligently

Good answer :)
And a very good article as well, I guess that answers my question. I think
what I will do is highlight the keyword in the text, so if you don't see it
then the search has picked up on something else.

Cheers

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 09:41:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css gurus
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOENIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEOCDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an image!  I have changed
the css file and the layout just doesn't want to work with me!

I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a single row but alas
nothing :( this is the problem page
http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

and this is the page I want it to look like but with an image left of the title
class
http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.html

Cheers
Andrew


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From lists at miinx.com.au  Mon Oct  7 09:54:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Mon Oct  7 09:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Browser bug or table help
References: <4272863B-D92A-11D6-B7AA-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>
Message-ID: <3DA1A006.3030103@miinx.com.au>

Andrew Boardman wrote:
> I created a small Web log for a friend at
> http://www.spiritualactivist.org and for some reason the pages shift
> about 5 px depending on the contents, probably because of the table.

this image: http://www.spiritualactivist.org/images/SA_bookcover.jpg is
160px wide, while the TD it's in is set to be only 130px...  whenever
the image appears, it's widening that TD, hence widening the table as a
whole...

hth
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Mon Oct  7 10:09:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Mon Oct  7 10:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD3@fsjubj09>

>Here is a question: what is easier for developers (using a wide variety
>of languages) to support:
><topic id="1" name="joe">
></topic>
><topic id="2" name="joe's kid" parent="1">
></topic>
>
>Or
>
><topic id="1" name="joe">
><topic id="2" name="joe's kid">
></topic>
></topic>
>
>(And you can have long trees (multiple nesting)). I need to know how
>hard one is support compared to the other, not just in programming
>languages, but even in things like Moveabletype tags, or other
>environments.
>Peter

Not sure if this has been answered already, but I would think the former
would be easier, at least from a parser standpoint.

Coming from an MSXML background, the parser is generating a tree of objects,
with each object having a parent-node setting that points to it's containing
node. Each piece of the tree is an object, meaning elements, attributes, and
even the text is contained in a separate object node.

The second way would still be built the same way in the parser, but it would
have the additional attribute and text value to worrry about, and you'd have
to program in the capability to look up parent nodes anyway, which would
still be slower than letting the parser do it for you...

Besides, the first example is more intuitive, in my opinion.

I'm not sure about memory usage for massively-nested trees as opposed to a
more flat structure as in your second example, and while intuitively I'd
think it would use more when nested, after thinking about it a bit I don't
believe so because the parser already has to manage the parent-child
relationships and so shouldn't care about the memory locations of each node
(similar to how the file system works with pointers, etc). Not sure whether
it determines relationships as you query the objects e.g. "on a need-to-know
basis" (more memory efficient?) or whether it generates a map and stores
that somewhere similar to the FAT tables (faster query performance?).

Hopefully that last paragraph made sense -- I have a loud paper shredder
running right next to me, hard to think. :)

Bottom line: I prefer the former. And though I'm not a C++ programmer nor a
parser creator, I'd think the former would be just fine with a parser as
well.

If I'm wrong please somebody step up and expose my ignorance to the light of
truth. ;)

HTH,
-dave


From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Mon Oct  7 10:22:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Mon Oct  7 10:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] searching alternative for interdev
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD4@fsjubj09>

>Macromedia Homesite is pretty decent for ASP.  It has code highlighting
>which is nice, and it will also integrate with any SCC compliant source
>control.  It's not free, but it's also very nice for plain old html or
>even jsp.

I used HomeSite for years, ever since the free 1.2 version. Recently though
I've moved on to TextPad. I switched because I started tinkering with
Python, and now am messing with PHP at home, and got tired of the Homesite
clutter.

The one thing I miss from Homesite though is the custom toolbar -- it was
*sweet*. TextPad has a menu item for custom tools, but can only hold 9. I
think Homesite's was virtually unlimited.

The best of course is Emacs, but I'm stuck on my Windows conventions, so
while I like Emacs' capabilities, I am incredibly unproductive while using
it... :\

An Emacs editor that fits inside a Windows MDI app would be nice... :)

-dave


From john at evolt.org.uk  Mon Oct  7 10:34:03 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Mon Oct  7 10:34:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] searching alternative for interdev
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD4@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAEEHICKAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
% David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
% Sent: 07 October 2002 16:21
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: RE: [thelist] searching alternative for interdev
%
%
% >Macromedia Homesite is pretty decent for ASP.  It has code highlighting
% >which is nice, and it will also integrate with any SCC compliant source
% >control.  It's not free, but it's also very nice for plain old html or
% >even jsp.
%
% I used HomeSite for years, ever since the free 1.2 version.
% Recently though
% I've moved on to TextPad. I switched because I started tinkering with
% Python, and now am messing with PHP at home, and got tired of the Homesite
% clutter.

Komodo's pretty good.  http://www.activestate.com

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------



From mike at nthwave.net  Mon Oct  7 10:45:02 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Mon Oct  7 10:45:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
References: <000501c26d59$543a0280$39595fc3@peter>
Message-ID: <3DA1ABDE.ADBDE44F@nthwave.net>

I favor option 1.
Option 2 seems to be logically incorrect -- each topic is not a subtopic
of the topic id=1.
Also, with a long tree, option 2 may run into memory errors -- Python, my
xml processor of choice, I believe has memory limits. 10,000 nested topics
will not compute!

m

PeterV wrote:

> Here is a question: what is easier for developers (using a wide variety
> of languages) to support:
> <topic id="1" name="joe">
> </topic>
> <topic id="2" name="joe's kid" parent="1">
> </topic>
>
> Or
>
> <topic id="1" name="joe">
> <topic id="2" name="joe's kid">
> </topic>
> </topic>
>
> (And you can have long trees (multiple nesting)). I need to know how
> hard one is support compared to the other, not just in programming
> languages, but even in things like Moveabletype tags, or other
> environments.
> Peter
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From scott at rigent.com  Mon Oct  7 11:13:01 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css gurus
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEOCDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000701c26e1b$a7d39970$6501a8c0@mcmook>

Hi Andrew...

The problem being that the <h1> tags are HTML standard tags - they have
a carridge return "built in".  So if you have a construct like this:

 <class = title><SOME IMAGE><h1>SOME TEXT</H1></class>

The H1 will ALWAYS put a line break after the image - so it might be
better to make a new class for that.

Also the TITLE class only has a construct for H1 - so when you wrap it
around the image it sort of messes that up too.

My suggestion is to add this to product.css:

		.title {
		border-top:1px solid #000;
		border-bottom:1px solid #000;
		border-right:10px solid #000;
		border-left:10px solid #000;
		margin-top:10px;
		padding-left:10px;
		padding-right:10px;
		padding-top:5px;
		padding-bottom:5px;
		}

		.header{
		font-size:18px;
		font-weight:bold;
		}

and change the H1 in the same css to this:

		.title h1{
		font-size:18px;
		}

The header tag the emmulates the h1 tag without the <p>.  Your items in
your list can then look like this:

  <div class="title"><a href="parts_pcb.html"><img src="left_pic.jpg"
alt="Amplifer Valve Tube Amplifiers Kits and Printed Circuit Board by
World Audio Design" width=106 height=70 border="0"
align="middle"></a><span class="header">Printed Circuit
Boards</span></div>

And the other pages already using that css shouldn't mess up.

hth!
sm


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> Sent: October 7, 2002 10:44 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] css gurus
>
>
> I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an
> image!  I have changed the css file and the layout just
> doesn't want to work with me!
>
> I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a
> single row but alas nothing :( this is the problem page
> http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_p> arts_index.html
>
>
> and this is the page I want it to look like
> but with an image left of the title class
> http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.h> tml
>
> Cheers
> Andrew
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 11:26:02 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:26:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] outline formating w/css
Message-ID: <F88mSaSdzUNwaUetLeF0000aedf@hotmail.com>



>I need to format a text outline, similar to legal text with nested
>numbered paragraph lists...

Don't know exactly what you mean (any online example of this 'text
outline'?), but isn't a simple ol the way to go? As soon as you're numbering
stuff it can't be beat.

Maybe something like

p {
  display: list-item;
  list-style-type: decimal;
}

would do the trick. Of course you may run into browser compatibility snags.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Mon Oct  7 11:27:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD6@fsjubj09>

>Option 2 seems to be logically incorrect -- each topic is not a subtopic
>of the topic id=1.

But when you create a topic with a parent attribute of parent=1 pointing to
the topic with id=1, then you are creating a subtopic of id=1. You are just
manually doing it instead of letting the XML parser handle it for you.

-dave


From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 11:29:01 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Hosting
In-Reply-To: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DAA1@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <001b01c26e20$97143d10$1e00a8c0@webbtech.co.uk>

> Giles>
> My brinkster account has become unreliable.
> Therefore I want to pay for some asp hosting but am on a very
> tight budget. Ideas??
>
> Nadeem>
> I use these people
> http://www.netweaver.com/nw/web.php?> page=windows from ?45 per
> year in the UK, these people
> http://dc-hosting.com/ do it for ?25 per year. For UK web
> hosting requirements http://www.whichhosts.com/ are an
> excellent reference site.

I can recommend www.catalyst2.com (uk) who someone on this list
recommended to me and I have been using since. They charge about ?12.00
per month.

Regards

Chris Marsh




From bking at impact-technologies.com  Mon Oct  7 11:43:01 2002
From: bking at impact-technologies.com (Brian W King)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491372F246F@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6E4@ITG_B02>

Personally speaking, I try to always follow Option 2 formatting.  Some of
the systems that I have to code around inherently interpret nested tags as
parent and child, whereas I would have to set the receiving system up so
that it understood option #1.  Not all parsers are created with all of the
compliance parsing information in them.  If they are just simply importing
data for a specific reason, why go through the expense of paying someone to
code in all of the bells and whistles unless you needed them.  I guess I am
trying to say that I see simple parsers use option two inherently, more
often than option 1.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 12:27 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] XML parsing

>Option 2 seems to be logically incorrect -- each topic is not a subtopic
>of the topic id=1.

But when you create a topic with a parent attribute of parent=1 pointing to
the topic with id=1, then you are creating a subtopic of id=1. You are just
manually doing it instead of letting the XML parser handle it for you.

-dave





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 11:58:02 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:58:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] css gurus
In-Reply-To: <000701c26e1b$a7d39970$6501a8c0@mcmook>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

excellent however the image is in the title now and not to the left? :)
actually that look alright so may just keep it like that, but ideally the image
should be outside to the left....

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott McPhee
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 05:08
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] css gurus


Hi Andrew...

The problem being that the <h1> tags are HTML standard tags - they have
a carridge return "built in".  So if you have a construct like this:

 <class = title><SOME IMAGE><h1>SOME TEXT</H1></class>

The H1 will ALWAYS put a line break after the image - so it might be
better to make a new class for that.

Also the TITLE class only has a construct for H1 - so when you wrap it
around the image it sort of messes that up too.

My suggestion is to add this to product.css:

		.title {
		border-top:1px solid #000;
		border-bottom:1px solid #000;
		border-right:10px solid #000;
		border-left:10px solid #000;
		margin-top:10px;
		padding-left:10px;
		padding-right:10px;
		padding-top:5px;
		padding-bottom:5px;
		}

		.header{
		font-size:18px;
		font-weight:bold;
		}

and change the H1 in the same css to this:

		.title h1{
		font-size:18px;
		}

The header tag the emmulates the h1 tag without the <p>.  Your items in
your list can then look like this:

  <div class="title"><a href="parts_pcb.html"><img src="left_pic.jpg"
alt="Amplifer Valve Tube Amplifiers Kits and Printed Circuit Board by
World Audio Design" width=106 height=70 border="0"
align="middle"></a><span class="header">Printed Circuit
Boards</span></div>

And the other pages already using that css shouldn't mess up.

hth!
sm


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> Sent: October 7, 2002 10:44 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] css gurus
>
>
> I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an
> image!  I have changed the css file and the layout just
> doesn't want to work with me!
>
> I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a
> single row but alas nothing :( this is the problem page
> http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_p> arts_index.html
>
>
> and this is the page I want it to look like
> but with an image left of the title class
> http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.h> tml
>
> Cheers
> Andrew
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From pandion at gmx.net  Mon Oct  7 11:59:00 2002
From: pandion at gmx.net (pandion)
Date: Mon Oct  7 11:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] css layout missing link
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOENIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <003d01c26df7$78dbdde0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021007185106.029bad70@mail.gmx.net>

At 13:56 2002.10.07, Andrew Maynes wrote:
>I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an image!  I have changed
>the css file and the layout just doesn't want to work with me!
>
>I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a single row but alas
>nothing :( this is the problem page
>http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html
>
>and this is the page I want it to look like but with an image next to the
>title
>class
>http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.html




Try this for a start.

Put your image inside the div but before your h1:

<div class="title"><image src="" alt""><h1>.....</h1>

In your CSS:

.title img  { float: left }
.title h1    { margin-left: 115px }

The heading needs a left margin that is at least as wide as the image or it
will go under the image.


pandy




From bking at impact-technologies.com  Mon Oct  7 12:01:01 2002
From: bking at impact-technologies.com (Brian W King)
Date: Mon Oct  7 12:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491372F245E@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6E5@ITG_B02>

I think that we will probably see Southwest settle out of court too.  No one
seems to want to be the guinea pig on this one.  Knee jerk says that if the
companies are settling out of court, that they know they are on shaky ground
at best.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of John Handelaar
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 10:14 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
pertain to Internet Content?

Which is what this is about:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/10/06/2340204.shtml?tid=103

Test cases are necessary, and they have to go to a verdict
before you get precedent.

I, for one, am rather hoping that this scores.  The spirit
of the law in this case is clear.  The letter supports
that interpretation when/if a court cements a precedent.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------





From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Mon Oct  7 12:05:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Mon Oct  7 12:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] outline formating w/css
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD8@fsjubj09>

>I need to format a text outline, similar to legal text with nested
>numbered paragraph lists...

Use OL. You can use CSS to change the numbering format, and nest lists
infinitely.

As far as semantics goes, neither of the solutions you offered tells anyone
"this is an outline." Okay, it "looks" like an outline, but that's it. :P

And you can do some pretty wild things with CSS and lists:
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/taminglists/

-dave


From scott at rigent.com  Mon Oct  7 12:26:00 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Mon Oct  7 12:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] css gurus
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOIDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000801c26e25$ddd0d010$6501a8c0@mcmook>

There's the rub... I don't think that can be done -  the BORDER
cproperties can only be used on elements (div,td,tr) - and all elements
give a line break.  So where I have SPAN class=header, if the border
properties were added to the header class it wouldn't apply (span is an
inline construct)... if I change the span to a div it will give a line
break...

You were probably right to then use a table cell and have the cell an
absolute width so it doesn't slide UNDER the rightside menu - when you
have the width of 100% it will just pop it below the menu.  I suppose
then create another class that just leaves off the right side formatting
so it looks like its sliding under the menu.  Not elegant at all.

Ever thought of not doing the whole thing with css and just building a
table structure?  Your right side menu could row span 2 or three rows
and then full sized rows beneath?

sm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> Sent: October 7, 2002 1:01 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] css gurus
>
>
> excellent however the image is in the title now and not to
> the left? :) actually that look alright so may just keep it
> like that, but ideally the image should be outside to the left....
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott McPhee
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 05:08
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] css gurus
>
>
> Hi Andrew...
>
> The problem being that the <h1> tags are HTML standard tags -
> they have a carridge return "built in".  So if you have a
> construct like this:
>
>  <class = title><SOME IMAGE><h1>SOME TEXT</H1></class>
>
> The H1 will ALWAYS put a line break after the image - so it
> might be better to make a new class for that.
>
> Also the TITLE class only has a construct for H1 - so when
> you wrap it around the image it sort of messes that up too.
>
> My suggestion is to add this to product.css:
>
> 		.title {
> 		border-top:1px solid #000;
> 		border-bottom:1px solid #000;
> 		border-right:10px solid #000;
> 		border-left:10px solid #000;
> 		margin-top:10px;
> 		padding-left:10px;
> 		padding-right:10px;
> 		padding-top:5px;
> 		padding-bottom:5px;
> 		}
>
> 		.header{
> 		font-size:18px;
> 		font-weight:bold;
> 		}
>
> and change the H1 in the same css to this:
>
> 		.title h1{
> 		font-size:18px;
> 		}
>
> The header tag the emmulates the h1 tag without the <p>.
> Your items in your list can then look like this:
>
>   <div class="title"><a href="parts_pcb.html"><img
> src="left_pic.jpg" alt="Amplifer Valve Tube Amplifiers Kits
> and Printed Circuit Board by World Audio Design" width=106
> height=70 border="0" align="middle"></a><span
> class="header">Printed Circuit Boards</span></div>
>
> And the other pages already using that css shouldn't mess up.
>
> hth!
> sm
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> > Sent: October 7, 2002 10:44 AM
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: [thelist] css gurus
> >
> >
> > I have a css layout which needs to be changed to add an
> image!  I have
> > changed the css file and the layout just doesn't want to
> work with me!
> >
> > I tried putting a table in to give two seperation within a
> single row
> > but alas nothing :( this is the problem page
> > http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_p> arts_index.html
> >
> >
> > and this is the page I want it to look like
> > but with an image left of the title class
> > http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/amplifiers.h> tml
> >
> > Cheers
> > Andrew
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From noah at tookish.net  Mon Oct  7 13:00:01 2002
From: noah at tookish.net (Noah St.Amand)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] aligning text with bullet images
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007131549.00a32060@tookish.net>

Hi,

I'm using CSS to use images as bullets for a list of links. The images are
24x24 px, and the text is one line. The problem I'm having is in trying to
align the middle of the text to the middle of the image. I've managed to
get it working reasonably well in IE 5.5 (Win), Mozilla 1,0, and Opera
6.01, but in order to do so I had to use a <span> inside of each <li> and
the Tantek Celik hack to feed different "vertical-align" values to the
browsers, which seems a little excessive. Also, I have been informed that
the alignment does not work in IE 6 (Win).

I have some examples with explanations here:

http://www.tookish.net/temp/bullets.html

Any idea why it is not working in IE 6? Is there a better way to achieve
the alignment I want, or should I give up on this semantic stuff and make a
table?

Thanks,
Noah



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Oct  7 13:12:02 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:12:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Alternating Rows
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007125213.01923548@mail.imaginuity.com>

This is too simple not to have a simple solution somewhere.

Obviously, there's a million ways to do alternating row colors but every
one of them requires hardcoding an attribute to each table row or assigning
an attribute programmatically (<CFIF CurrentRow MOD 2 IS
0>class="evenrow"</CFIF> and so on).

The problem is, I have a backend system where our clients can enter HTML
content in a WYSIWYG editor and I'd prefer for them not to have to add
classes to every row unless there was no other way.

What I've found so far is that there are selectors in CSS3 that can do
something like this (like tr:nth-child(odd) and other variants), but they
won't be widely supported in browsers any time soon.  Additionally, I know
that I can do some sort of ColdFusion loop over the content to achieve the
desired results and I have also found JavaScripts that can do similar
things at onload, but because I'd actually be modifying the display of the
data each time, I'd prefer not to do it that way.

Does anybody have any suggestions, comments, ideas on how to approach this
problem?

--Ben



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Mon Oct  7 13:13:00 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:13:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] aligning text with bullet images
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007131549.00a32060@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <003101c26e2d$169a4d70$9865fea9@Laptop>

Hi Noah,

Whenever I have trouble with CSS bullet images, I simply "cheat" by adding a
little white space above the bullet in the image editing program itself. So
the image alignment itself hasn't changed, but the bullet's position within
that image moves.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From peter at poorbuthappy.com  Mon Oct  7 13:14:01 2002
From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (PeterV)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFD3@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <000401c26e2d$49ce8490$1a585fc3@peter>

Hi,
Mysql throws an error with this query:

select to.name as name, to.id as id FROM xfml_occurrence oc, xfml_page
pa, xfml_topic to WHERE oc.map_id = 10 AND pa.map_id = 10 AND to.map_id
= 10 AND pa.url = '/prototype/multiplefacets.php?mapid=10' AND
oc.page_id = pa.id AND oc.topic_database_id = to.id

Error:
You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'to WHERE oc.map_id = 10 AND
pa.map_id = 10 AND to.map_id = 10 AND '

I can't find what's wrong with it? Any ideas on where to start looking?>
Peter




From eric.d.means at boeing.com  Mon Oct  7 13:17:06 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:17:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B92803D6C7B3@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: PeterV [mailto:peter at poorbuthappy.com]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:14 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question

> Error:
> You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'to WHERE oc.map_id = 10 AND
> pa.map_id = 10 AND to.map_id = 10 AND '

to might be a reserved word.  either use
tablename AS to
or try a different alias.


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Oct  7 13:21:04 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:21:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Alternating Rows
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007125213.01923548@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEKBHJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ben,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ben Dyer
>
> Does anybody have any suggestions, comments, ideas on
> how to approach this problem?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

if you only need to support ie, then using a css expression would do the trick.  something like this (beware of wrap):

.data tbody td {
  background-color: expression((this.parentElement.rowIndex % 2 == 0) ? 'buttonface' : 'window');
  color: expression((this.parentElement.rowIndex % 2 == 0) ? 'buttontext' : 'windowtext');
}

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From peter at poorbuthappy.com  Mon Oct  7 13:21:11 2002
From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (PeterV)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:21:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question
In-Reply-To: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B92803D6C7B3@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c26e2e$448ae720$1a585fc3@peter>

>  to might be a reserved word.  either use
>  tablename AS to
>  or try a different alias.

That was it! I really wouldn't have thought of that (rusty coding
skills...), thanks!
Peter




From scott at rigent.com  Mon Oct  7 13:22:01 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question
In-Reply-To: <000401c26e2d$49ce8490$1a585fc3@peter>
Message-ID: <000901c26e2d$b1878eb0$6501a8c0@mcmook>

I think that the To is a reserved word... try your query with something
else in its place.

sm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of PeterV
> Sent: October 7, 2002 2:14 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Mysql query question
>
>
> Hi,
> Mysql throws an error with this query:
>
> select to.name as name, to.id as id FROM xfml_occurrence oc,
> xfml_page pa, xfml_topic to WHERE oc.map_id = 10 AND
> pa.map_id = 10 AND to.map_id = 10 AND pa.url =
> '/prototype/multiplefacets.php?mapid=10' AND oc.page_id =
> pa.id AND oc.topic_database_id = to.id
>
> Error:
> You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'to WHERE oc.map_id
> = 10 AND pa.map_id = 10 AND to.map_id = 10 AND '
>
> I can't find what's wrong with it? Any ideas on where to
> start looking?> Peter
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 13:26:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css gurus
In-Reply-To: <000801c26e25$ddd0d010$6501a8c0@mcmook>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEONDNAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

looking good guys!

http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott McPhee
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 06:21
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] css gurus


There's the rub... I don't think that can be done -  the BORDER
cproperties can only be used on elements (div,td,tr) - and all elements
give a line break.  So where I have SPAN class=header, if the border
properties were added to the header class it wouldn't apply (span is an
inline construct)... if I change the span to a div it will give a line
break...

You were probably right to then use a table cell and have the cell an
absolute width so it doesn't slide UNDER the rightside menu - when you
have the width of 100% it will just pop it below the menu.  I suppose
then create another class that just leaves off the right side formatting
so it looks like its sliding under the menu.  Not elegant at all.

Ever thought of not doing the whole thing with css and just building a
table structure?  Your right side menu could row span 2 or three rows
and then full sized rows beneath?

sm


---
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From danfascia at totalise.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 13:43:01 2002
From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing lists
Message-ID: <4Z5176XTZXLKA6TQ5YVMK8243KPJGA.3da1d49b@DANFASCIA-21>

anybody know of any good sites where I can run a mailing list (with self opt in out
facility etc) much like the evolt one...

Or is it better to install a script on my server? if so which ones are good (PHP/CGI)

never run one before so some advice would be great...

Dan




From techwatcher at accesswriters.com  Mon Oct  7 13:44:03 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Carol Stein)
Date: Mon Oct  7 13:44:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: multicolumn layouts
In-Reply-To: <20021006170535.3C0CA3A1A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <E17ycqm-00017L-00@avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi, Rudy et al

>i just wish people would finally wake up and realize there's something
>wrong with multicolumn layout itself, never mind if it's done with tables
>or divs

Waaaay back around 1996 (when I was first designing Web sites and teaching others how to design them) I wrote that navaids and the like should bear in mind the aspect ratio of the screen. (It's horizontal!!!) I agree that columns usually are not good things, for the reasons you specified. But, reading wide columns is not good, either, as readability gurus will attest.

Aside: in 1997 when Vinie (actor, activist, etc.) wanted her home page to feature a picture of her, flanked on one side by excerpts of reviews and on the other by introductory bio material, I created my first table-based layout. It's a *good* layout, judging by what all her visitors have told her, or written, so far. "Good" means the layout fits the page's purpose and intended audience; those are two of the most important general criteria for Web sites, as for other documents. (Yup, I'm still insisting a Web site is just another type of document.)

Most Web site pages should NOT use the print model for layout. I still like the ancient layout reused for my accesswriters.com site, which reliably has inter-page, intra-site navaids at top and bottom; reliably (predictably) offers the reader a quick link back to the internal page's hypertext table of contents every screen or two (between major sections of the page), simultaneously offering a link back to the home page... I still say having a simple, repeatable navaid (preferably an icon) repeated at intervals in each margin of a narrow column of text is best for the reader, assuming the purpose of the page is to present text.

Unfortunately, until browsers conform better to CSS specs, I sorta have to use a table layout -- just to present a single column of text with a couple of marginal graphics repeated at intervals! (Also, at the top of almost every page, there's a header and the hypertext toc, and at the bottom a site navaid, which is first presented/explained on the home page.) Current designers apparently abhor mapped images, but they're forgetting why a well-chosen picture is worth a thousand words.

Sites also should have a search box (I haven't implemented this yet; my site's not officially open), which corresponds to the index in a print medium. Also, the home page should orient the reader to the contents/intent/function of the site, especially by good use of graphics. Current trends in design are especially poor at this last function; most Web designers are literally attempting to use a Table of Contents in place of a good title/cover. Yes, it's hard; requires a lot of creative thinking. Does that mean we shouldn't do it?

One more thing, quite important to a complete theory of site design: The Internet generally ought to be interactive. I am still mulling over how to redesign my stories in "news" pages in such a way that the reader can see the original statement, plus previous readers' comments running parallel to the statement, plus an input box in which to add more comments. Now *that's* a layout challenge. (Pop-up box, resizable/re-place-able, for new comments by the current reader? Make comments smaller as their numbers increase? Framed comments, scrollable?)

Cheers --
Carol



From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Mon Oct  7 14:00:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Mon Oct  7 14:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Alternating Rows
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEKBHJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEKBHJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1812804614.20021007135836@members.evolt.org>

j> if you only need to support ie, then using a css expression would do the trick.  something like this (beware of wrap):

j> .data tbody td {
j>   background-color: expression((this.parentElement.rowIndex % 2 == 0) ? 'buttonface' : 'window');
j>   color: expression((this.parentElement.rowIndex % 2 == 0) ? 'buttontext' : 'windowtext');
j> }

That would have been my suggestion. However, I would guess that is a
way to do the same thing using the DOM, although I am not a DOM expert
so I couldn't tell you how. You might want to check up on accessing
elements using the array ([]) indexing, that way you can use similar
mod zero tricks to switch colors.

--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*-------------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org     |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid        |
| ICQ   : 6016166                               |
| AIM   : digitz0819                            |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com               |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                         |
*-----------------------------------------------*
| mushkil hai zabas kalaam mera ai dil          |
| sun sun ke ise suKhan_varaa.N-e-kaamil        |
| aasaan kahane kii karate hai.n faramaaish     |
| goim mushkil vagaranaa goim mushkil           |
|-----------------------------------------------|
| Too hard to grasp is my verse, O heart!       |
| Hearing it, the connoisseurs of art           |
| For a simpler style do ask                    |
| Difficult, if I write, difficult, if I do not |
*-----------------------------------------------*



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 14:21:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Oct  7 14:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Alternating Rows
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007125213.01923548@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <20021007192058.15683.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ben Dyer <ben_dyer at imaginuity.com> wrote:

> Obviously, there's a million ways to do alternating row colors but
> every
> one of them requires hardcoding an attribute to each table row or
> assigning
> an attribute programmatically (<CFIF CurrentRow MOD 2 IS
> 0>class="evenrow"</CFIF> and so on).
<snip>

Ben, here is something I use by using the DOM which, if not usable
for you may spark an idea.

function colorRows()
{
table = document.getElementById("your_table_id");
numrows = table.getElementsByTagName("TR").length;

x = 0;
strColor = "#b7c6a9"; //your base color

while(x < numrows)
{
	if(strColor == "#b7c6a9")
	{
		strColor = "#e2e2c5"; //your other color
	}
	else
	{
		strColor = "#b7c6a9"
	}
	table.getElementsByTagName("TR").item(x).style.backgroundColor =
strColor;
	x = x + 1;
}

}

This will work if you change the number of rows, etc. HTH

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From abbey at abbeyink.com  Mon Oct  7 14:22:01 2002
From: abbey at abbeyink.com (abbey)
Date: Mon Oct  7 14:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css line-height in IE6/Win2k
Message-ID: <200210071921.g97JLX3P007886@leo.evolt.org>

I would prefer to try this in CSS, but I need to combine CSS with an
old-fashioned table layout. Everything's going great except for the
line-height selector. The nav links just won't space out properly -- any
ideas as to what I'm doing wrong here?

I'm using this:
a.subnav:link {
  font-family : Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
  font-size : 10px;
  font-weight : bold;
  color : #3366FF;
  text-decoration : none;
  white-space : nowrap;
  line-height : 20px;
  }

TIA
--



From gtoland at chm.net  Mon Oct  7 15:16:01 2002
From: gtoland at chm.net (Gregory J Toland)
Date: Mon Oct  7 15:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX TabStrip Control
Message-ID: <000101c26e07$a6387720$b504a8c0@md.corp.chm.net>

I am using Microsoft Visual InterDev 6.0.  I am having trouble implementing
the tabstrip control in my HTML page.  Does anyone have any examples I could
look at?  Anything I need to be aware of?  Every time I insert the tabs and
then switch over to another view the tabs disappear.

Gregory J Toland
Sr. Systems Architect
CHM Inc.
(301) 899-2601 X317 (Office)
(703) 655-5766 (Mobile)
gtoland at chm.net



From erik at efocus.nl  Mon Oct  7 15:16:06 2002
From: erik at efocus.nl (Erik Winter)
Date: Mon Oct  7 15:16:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Aligning tables in Netscape
In-Reply-To: <20021006170329.623D3BFBA@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007165251.024a95c8@pop.xs4all.nl>

At 12:03 6-10-2002 -0500, .jeff wrote:
>i can hardly wait until the tableless layout proponents wake up one
>morning and decide they're tired of the 2 and 3 column floating div
>layouts that are the common replacement for <table>-based layouts.  then
>what?  oh, i know.  nest as many <div> tags as necessary and use absolute
>and/or relative positioning to get things where you want them.  how the
>heck is that better than using tables?

Other layouts are not that hard once you're getting used to the way
css-layout works. I'd like to point to http://www.ey.nl, a corporate
website of about 1000 pages. The structure is completely separated from
presentation and the presentation is separated in style-css and layout-css.

There is a limited set of layouts and these are stored in different
cacheble files. The fonts and colors have their own css-file and are also
cached (or can be changed very easily: http://www.ey.nl/ias/ or
http://www.hollandlaw.nl ). The content is indeed in 'as many <div> tags as
necessary' but the nesting reflects the document-structure, not the layout.
(Ok, and a few empty divs to avoid some bugs in IE).

Together this makes for a controllable site with very small pages and it
doesn't look too standard to me. Exactly how were you planning to
accomplish this with tables?

Erik Winter

(BTW I'm on digest, so forgive if my responses are a bit slow.)
(And yes, this was a shameless selfpromotion)

--
http://www.efocus.nl




From jaborg at maltanet.net  Mon Oct  7 15:16:20 2002
From: jaborg at maltanet.net (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Mon Oct  7 15:16:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] outline formatting w/css
Message-ID: <3858EE94-DA25-11D6-8375-000502A39AB6@maltanet.net>

I need to format a text outline, similar to legal text with nested,
numbered paragraph lists...

The {content: } property does not seem to be well implemented, even in
Mozilla 1.1 (or I'm growing gremlins between me ears).

Anyway, for backward compatibility's sake I can think of two scenarios:
1	use two column nested tables with first column having the
	paragraph number and the second the actual content
	(that's what I'm implementing)
2	leave the paras as <p></p> with the numbers added manually
	then adding a :first-line css rule for 5+ browsers to
	indent out the first line.

any valid arguments in favour of one or the other, or maybe a different
scheme?

thanks



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 15:21:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon Oct  7 15:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Alternating Rows
Message-ID: <F87laS6piH5CS22Y6cW00012929@hotmail.com>


> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Ben Dyer
> >
> > Does anybody have any suggestions, comments, ideas on
> > how to approach this problem?
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
>if you only need to support ie, then using a css expression would do the
>trick.  something like this (beware of wrap):

Or use JavaScript, something like

if (document.getElementsByTagName)
  var x = document.getElementById('table_id').getElementsByTagName('TR');
else if (document.all)
  var x = document.all['table_id'].tags['TR'];
else return; // doesn't work in NN4
for (var i=0;i<x.length;i+=2)
   x[i].className = 'evenRow';

Then you have one bunch of TR's without a class and another with
class="evenRow" and you can style them accordingly.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From meredith at pintsize.com  Mon Oct  7 16:18:01 2002
From: meredith at pintsize.com (Meredith Tupper)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] browser confession
Message-ID: <3DA34B66.5030008@pintsize.com>

Hello 'volters,

I am helping to design a site for someone who is using AOL 7 on Mac,
with resolution set to 1280 x 1024.  I need a good browser sniffer
because what we're using now just ain't cutting it for some reason.

Can anyone recommend a decent solution or point me in the direction of one?

Thanks,
Meredith

--
PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
http://www.pintsize.com
3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
Tampa, FL 33629
813-835-5382
meredith at pintsize.com



From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Oct  7 16:23:02 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:23:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] browser confession
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB13@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meredith Tupper [mailto:meredith at pintsize.com]
> Sent: October 8, 2002 5:17 PM

> Can anyone recommend a decent solution or point me in the
> direction of one?

This is the best I've come across: "The Ultimate JavaScript Client
Sniffer, Version 3.03"
<http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/sniffer/browser_type.html>

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 16:27:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] browser confession
Message-ID: <F520eKaNOTSrqKEXlMG00012c86@hotmail.com>

>I am helping to design a site for someone who is using AOL 7 on Mac,
>with resolution set to 1280 x 1024.  I need a good browser sniffer
>because what we're using now just ain't cutting it for some reason.
>
>Can anyone recommend a decent solution or point me in the direction of one?

JavaScript browser detects are not reliable with AOL browsers. AOL uses
Explorer as its code engine, and Explorer is responsible for creating
navigator.userAgent and such. Sometimes it tells you it's underneath AOL,
sometimes it doesn't.

Use a server side browser detect.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com



From meredith at pintsize.com  Mon Oct  7 16:38:01 2002
From: meredith at pintsize.com (Meredith Tupper)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] browser confession
References: <F520eKaNOTSrqKEXlMG00012c86@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DA35010.709@pintsize.com>

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
> JavaScript browser detects are not reliable with AOL browsers. AOL uses
> Explorer as its code engine, and Explorer is responsible for creating
> navigator.userAgent and such. Sometimes it tells you it's underneath AOL,
> sometimes it doesn't.

Aha!  That explains it -- we've been using a javascript one and never
noticed any problems 'til now.

> Use a server side browser detect.

Thank ye kindly, I will do that,
Meredith

- = p e a c e = -

--
PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
http://www.pintsize.com
3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
Tampa, FL 33629
813-835-5382
meredith at pintsize.com



From mike at nthwave.net  Mon Oct  7 16:43:01 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
References: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6E4@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <3DA1FFCD.D51F3E98@nthwave.net>

I must have dropped a nut :-)
just to recap -
Option 1 is siblings all as children of the root element.
Option 2 is infinitely nested siblings. The younger brother nested inside the
elder.

Option 2 is more complicated to parse, will take longer and drain more memory.
Option 1 is the way xml is intended to be used.

Using Option 1 using Python minidom, you can gather all the topics in our
example with:
categoriesDom = xml.dom.minidom.parse('someFile.xml')
categoriesNodes = categoriesDom.documentElement.childNodes
for category in categoriesNodes:
      if category.nodeType == xml.dom.minidom.Node.ELEMENT_NODE:

There is also the imminently handy getElementsByTagName(tagName)
m


Brian W King wrote:

> Personally speaking, I try to always follow Option 2 formatting.  Some of
> the systems that I have to code around inherently interpret nested tags as
> parent and child, whereas I would have to set the receiving system up so
> that it understood option #1.  Not all parsers are created with all of the
> compliance parsing information in them.  If they are just simply importing
> data for a specific reason, why go through the expense of paying someone to
> code in all of the bells and whistles unless you needed them.  I guess I am
> trying to say that I see simple parsers use option two inherently, more
> often than option 1.
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
> Behalf Of David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 12:27 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] XML parsing
>
> >Option 2 seems to be logically incorrect -- each topic is not a subtopic
> >of the topic id=1.
>
> But when you create a topic with a parent attribute of parent=1 pointing to
> the topic with id=1, then you are creating a subtopic of id=1. You are just
> manually doing it instead of letting the XML parser handle it for you.
>
> -dave
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From dunstan at 1976design.com  Mon Oct  7 16:51:02 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:51:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] converting \n\n to \n on form submission
Message-ID: <20021007215011.M25275@1976design.com>

Hi there,

anyone know how I take a form submission and replace occurances of double new
lines with a single new line.

so replace this:

"hello.\n
\n
how.\n
\n
dee-doo."


with:

"hello.\n
how.\n
dee-doo."

doing this doesn't seem to work:

$comment = ereg_replace("\n\n","\n",$comment);


thanks - dunstan

p.s. When the form is displayed I'm using nl2br() to format it correctly.
p.p.s. I hope the code doesn't render in your email reader!

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From judah at wiredotter.com  Mon Oct  7 16:56:00 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] browser confession
References: <F520eKaNOTSrqKEXlMG00012c86@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DA202D7.1090209@wiredotter.com>

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
>> I am helping to design a site for someone who is using AOL 7 on Mac,
>> with resolution set to 1280 x 1024.  I need a good browser sniffer
>> because what we're using now just ain't cutting it for some reason.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a decent solution or point me in the direction of
>> one?
>
>
> JavaScript browser detects are not reliable with AOL browsers. AOL uses
> Explorer as its code engine, and Explorer is responsible for creating
> navigator.userAgent and such. Sometimes it tells you it's underneath AOL,
> sometimes it doesn't.

And as I recall, AOL 7 for OS X was the first to bundle Mozilla
(Netscape 7) as its browsers so you may be seeing very different
browsers depending on which OS/AOL combination is in play.

Judah





From noah at tookish.net  Mon Oct  7 16:58:00 2002
From: noah at tookish.net (Noah St.Amand)
Date: Mon Oct  7 16:58:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] aligning text with bullet images
In-Reply-To: <003101c26e2d$169a4d70$9865fea9@Laptop>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007131549.00a32060@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007174553.00a32bb0@tookish.net>

At 02:12 PM 07/10/2002, Bob Haroche wrote:
>Whenever I have trouble with CSS bullet images, I simply "cheat" by adding a
>little white space above the bullet in the image editing program itself. So
>the image alignment itself hasn't changed, but the bullet's position within
>that image moves.

Thanks for that -- I actually tried that a while back, but the problem is
that I can't get Mozilla to align the text with anything but the bottom of
the bullet, unless I use a percentage for vertical-align (e.g.,
vertical-align: 20%). For some reason, Mozilla completely ignores
"vertical-align: middle". This is only a problem because IE 5.5 completely
ignores "vertical-align: 20%", but understands "vertical-align: middle". I
was using the box model hack to feed each browser the value it can handle,
but this was apparently messing up IE 6.

Thanks again, though.

Cheers,
Noah



From lustig at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  7 17:09:00 2002
From: lustig at buffalo.edu (Jason Lustig)
Date: Mon Oct  7 17:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
Message-ID: <002001c26e4e$0fe474d0$68a8a8c0@jason>

Hey everyone

I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/, and
I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at it and tell me what
you think -- if it works or if it's broken, if you're having problems
seeing things with the color scheme, and your thoughts in general; any
comments would be great.

Thanks a lot. :)

--Jason



From paul at teltest.com  Mon Oct  7 17:16:03 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon Oct  7 17:16:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
References: <002001c26e4e$0fe474d0$68a8a8c0@jason>
Message-ID: <3DA20841.4070407@teltest.com>

ummm... i get the following script source as text in the main content panel:

//Date(year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds, ms) target = new
Date(2004,06,19,0,0,0,0); counter(); function counter() { now = new
Date(); difference = target.getTime() - now.getTime(); days =
Math.floor(difference / 86400000); difference = difference - (days *
86400000); hours = Math.floor(difference / 3600000); difference =
difference - (hours * 3600000); minutes = Math.floor(difference /
60000); difference = difference - (minutes * 60000); seconds =
Math.floor(difference / 1000); difference = difference - (seconds *
1000); deciseconds = Math.floor(difference / 100); difference =
difference - (deciseconds * 100); centiseconds = Math.floor(difference /
10); difference = difference - (centiseconds * 100); output = "";
if(days == 1) { output = days + " day, "; }//if else { output = days + "
days, "; }//else if(hours == 1) { output = output + hours + " hour, ";
}//if else { output = output + hours + " hours, "; }//else if(minutes ==
1) { output = output + minutes + " minute, "; }//if else { output =
output + minutes + " minutes, "; }//else if(seconds < 10) { output =
output + "0" + seconds + "." + deciseconds + centiseconds + " seconds ";
}//if else { output = output + seconds + "." + deciseconds +
centiseconds + " seconds "; }//else document.forms[1].count.value =
output; setTimeout("counter()",.1); }//counter -->

does that look familiar?

Jason Lustig wrote:

>Hey everyone
>
>I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
>regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/, and
>I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at it and tell me what
>you think -- if it works or if it's broken, if you're having problems
>seeing things with the color scheme, and your thoughts in general; any
>comments would be great.
>
>Thanks a lot. :)
>
>--Jason
>
>
>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From paul at teltest.com  Mon Oct  7 17:16:13 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon Oct  7 17:16:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
References: <002001c26e4e$0fe474d0$68a8a8c0@jason>
Message-ID: <3DA2085C.5010101@teltest.com>

oops - mozilla 1 on win2000 by the way... :)

Jason Lustig wrote:

>Hey everyone
>
>I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
>regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/, and
>I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at it and tell me what
>you think -- if it works or if it's broken, if you're having problems
>seeing things with the color scheme, and your thoughts in general; any
>comments would be great.
>
>Thanks a lot. :)
>
>--Jason
>
>
>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From lustig at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  7 17:24:01 2002
From: lustig at buffalo.edu (Jason Lustig)
Date: Mon Oct  7 17:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/ 
Message-ID: <002201c26e50$38633520$68a8a8c0@jason>

>ummm... i get the following
>script source as text in the
>main content panel:
[...]

Thanks! It seems that for some reason the commenting out of that code
didn't work correctly, but it's fixed now.

--Jason



From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Mon Oct  7 18:20:01 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Mon Oct  7 18:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
References: <002001c26e4e$0fe474d0$68a8a8c0@jason>
Message-ID: <004101c26e57$fbf40a80$0201a8c0@yoda>

> I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
> regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/,
and
> I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at it and tell me what
> you think -- if it works or if it's broken, if you're having problems
> seeing things with the color scheme, and your thoughts in general; any
> comments would be great.

A very unusual design! In this case, moreso then the usual site check
request, it would be VERY helpful to see a screen shot of what you WANT
to the design to look like. At my screen size, the content falls
slightly under the nav. Interesting, but is that your intent?




From subscriptions at cbrody.com  Mon Oct  7 18:45:01 2002
From: subscriptions at cbrody.com (Chris Brody)
Date: Mon Oct  7 18:45:01 2002
Subject: Genealogy (was: [thelist] XML parsing)
In-Reply-To: <3DA1FFCD.D51F3E98@nthwave.net>
Message-ID: <MBBBLMPGPBJGFMPJCNPJOENDCOAA.subscriptions@cbrody.com>

PeterV wrote:
> [option 2]
> <topic id="1" name="joe">
> <topic id="2" name="joe's kid">
> </topic>
> </topic>

Michael Mell wrote:
>> Option 1 is siblings all as children of the root element.
>> Option 2 is infinitely nested siblings. The younger brother
>> nested inside the elder.

Michael, you have either misinterpreted the orginal post, or confused your
terminology. Siblings cannot be "nested", even in the case of incest.

<eve s="adam" sex="1">
	<abel f="adam" sex="0" />
	<cain f="adam" s="cainswife" sex="0">
		<enoch m="cainswife" s="enochswife" sex="0">
			<irad m="enochswife" s="iradswife" sex="0">...</irad>
	</cain>
	...
</eve>

It would be very useful if everyone on this list could quote the relevant
text ABOVE their own comments before continuing the discussion. It should be
possible to read the latest post and follow the thread all the way back to
its original creator, in chronological order. Simple list etiquette in my
mind!

You may very well disagree.

--Chris.



From lustig at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  7 19:05:01 2002
From: lustig at buffalo.edu (Jason Lustig)
Date: Mon Oct  7 19:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
In-Reply-To: <004101c26e57$fbf40a80$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <000201c26e5e$4ef51160$68a8a8c0@jason>

>A very unusual design!

Yeah, it's a little unorthodox. It mostly was the result of me playing
around randomly and taking a look at it, and saying, "ooo, this look
interesting" and building off of that.

>In this case, moreso then the usual
>site check request, it would be VERY helpful to see a screen
>shot of what you WANT to the design to look like.

If you want to see a screenshot of what it looks like on my computer
(which is what I was going for), you can take a look at
http://www.buffalo.edu/~lustig/screenshot.jpg.

>At my screen
>size, the content falls slightly under the nav. Interesting,
>but is that your intent?

Yeah. It's not supposed to block out any of the nav, but I wanted it to
connect in some way, and this seemed like a very interesting way of
making it work.

--Jason



From belinda at prodsol.net  Mon Oct  7 19:30:04 2002
From: belinda at prodsol.net (Belinda Johnson)
Date: Mon Oct  7 19:30:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
In-Reply-To: <004101c26e57$fbf40a80$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <LMENKEFNHALPEFHGPHEMCEPBDPAA.belinda@prodsol.net>

Well, on Netscape 4.72 it is nothing but black Times New Roman text on a
white page.

On IE5.5 I can see the background, but the text navigation on the left is
really hard to read over the background image. Sorry :(



Belinda



> I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
> regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/,




From rex at gordiansystems.com  Mon Oct  7 21:33:01 2002
From: rex at gordiansystems.com (Rex Vincent J. Aglibot)
Date: Mon Oct  7 21:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hosting 3 sites on one server on one IP address
Message-ID: <001201c26e74$a5ce0800$0a01a8c0@Cmp06>

I have IIS 4 running on NT 4... I have 3 sites on it with the ff DNS:

site1  10.10.10.11
site2  10.10.10.21
site3  10.10.10.31


in a web browser, if i type in site1 or site2 or site3, it'll go to the appropriate site... same thing happens when you
type in the IP... this is all on one machine, on my local network...all running locally...

externally, I have three domain names (domain1.com, domain2.com and domain3.com) pointing to my static IP... so in a web
browser at home, I can type in my domain and it'll go to my router... same thing if I type in my static IP address...

I set my router to do IP forwarding to 10.10.10.11, so if I type in my static IP or domain*.com in a web browser, out
pops "site1"... that's externally... i do that at home...

here's my question:  what do I do so that from my house (or anywhere for that matter) if i type in domain1.com, it goes
to site1 locally, if i type in domain2.com, it'll go to site2, and so on...

I know that this can be done in Linux and Win2K web servers, because I have seen different sites with diff. domain names
pointing to the same IP address...

There must be a setting in the management console or something... I dunno...

any help is gladly appreciated... thanks!



From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 22:08:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
  pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <20021007170146.75395BFDC@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007223423.00a664d8@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

At 12:01 PM 10/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Which is what this is about:
>
>http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/10/06/2340204.shtml?tid=103
>
>Test cases are necessary, and they have to go to a verdict
>before you get precedent.
>
>I, for one, am rather hoping that this scores.  The spirit
>of the law in this case is clear.  The letter supports
>that interpretation when/if a court cements a precedent.


I've read the article but didn't see too much mention about where this
starts and stops in regards to site/ownership size.  It's one thing for the
government to have to adhere to something like this but having legislation
mandating that I make my personal site "visible" to a blind person is too
much (and my grandmother was blind prior to her death).

Especially in this case it seems ridiculous since there are viable
alternative modes of gaining the same information that are equally viable,
such as using a telephone and calling the airlines.

This isn't the proper forum for it most likely but I believe it must be
said; the Internet, as it stands today, is primarily a visual medium.  This
law is, in my opinion, akin to someone who is deaf suing the RIAA because
they are unable to hear the music on a CD they just bought (although in
this case I wish they would.. the riaa are, well I'll be nice and not say).

On a side note, at least this would do away with moronic flash only sites.

-benjamin



From tanderson_70 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 22:37:02 2002
From: tanderson_70 at hotmail.com (tanderson_70 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:37:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
Message-ID: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Can someone please tell me what this means and how I fix it?




Error Occurred While Processing Request
Error Diagnostic Information


From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Mon Oct  7 22:43:00 2002
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:43:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server problems.......
In-Reply-To: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F7836304757A29@rlghncsxm20.usa.d
 ce.usps.gov>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007224023.01d96558@redhotsweeps.com>

Well folks.  I want to thank everyone for checking out my sites.  I told
the user I had other people check them and everything was ok.  I asked them
to try another ISP (ie...the library or at work) and they refused.

Oh well, can't win them all.

Thanks again.

Chris

At 07:54 AM 10/2/2002, you wrote:
>Hello all.  One of my visitors says they are having problems accessing my
>sites.
>I have tested and checked everything I can think of, and I can't find any
>problem.  The user can actually access the site, but when they click on a link
>for another page, it times out.
>
>I have asked them to do a traceroute and ping the server and both of those
>come
>back looking fine.  No high ping times and no timeouts.  I have asked the user
>to try accessing my site from another machine, but he insists nothing is wrong
>on his end since "I can get to all the other sites on the internet with no
>problem".  He has even gone as far as to contact his ISP for them to check.
>Same problem.  He now wants me to call them and troubleshoot with them.
>
>Anyhow, can anyone suggest anything or any ideas?  He doesn't seem to want to
>take my suggestions and try another machine because he thinks it is my fault.
>Also, if anyone has a minute, try hitting http://www.redhotsweeps.com/ &
>http://www.toylandtoys.com/ and let me know if there are any connection
>issues.
>
>thanks
>
>Chris
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Oct  7 22:47:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
In-Reply-To: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPKEMAHJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

t,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: tanderson_70 at hotmail.com
>
> Can someone please tell me what this means and how I
> fix it?
>
> Error Occurred While Processing Request
> Error Diagnostic Information
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

can you please try sending your message to thelist in plain-text format so we can all read the error message you're getting?

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From rex at gordiansystems.com  Mon Oct  7 22:47:24 2002
From: rex at gordiansystems.com (Rex Vincent J. Aglibot)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:47:24 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
References: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c26e7f$171a59a0$0a01a8c0@Cmp06>

list the WHOLE error message or if possible, post the code...

it could be anything... a missing/mistyped variable can do that...


----- Original Message -----
From: <tanderson_70 at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:35 PM
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Can someone please tell me what this means and how I fix it?
>
>
>
>
> Error Occurred While Processing Request
> Error Diagnostic Information
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Oct  7 22:50:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Oct  7 22:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hosting 3 sites on one server on one IP address
In-Reply-To: <001201c26e74$a5ce0800$0a01a8c0@Cmp06>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007204732.02ee18d8@baratta.com>

What you want to do is "bind" site2, site3 to IP 11 from within your Web
Server. This way any host header site1, 2 or 3 will be answered at the 11
IP address.

Look under Properties, General, Advanced for each virtual web site.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From lustig at buffalo.edu  Mon Oct  7 23:06:00 2002
From: lustig at buffalo.edu (Jason Lustig)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
Message-ID: <000901c26e42$55db0870$68a8a8c0@jason>

Hey everyone

I've been working on a new CSS-based design for my youth group's
regional website. The address is at http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/, and
I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at it and tell me what
you think -- if it works or if it's broken, if you're having problems
seeing things with the color scheme, and your thoughts in general; any
comments would be great.

Thanks a lot. :)

--Jason



From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Mon Oct  7 23:08:01 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act  
  pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <20021008035137.18D6ABFE4@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007205930.009df510@accessibleinter.net>

At 08:51 PM 10/07/2002, Benjamin wrote:
>I've read the article but didn't see too much mention about where this
>starts and stops in regards to site/ownership size.  It's one thing for the
>government to have to adhere to something like this but having legislation
>mandating that I make my personal site "visible" to a blind person is too
>much (and my grandmother was blind prior to her death).

I believe the ADA says that companies above 15 employees  must follow the
law's mandates.  I doubt your personal site qualifies.

>Especially in this case it seems ridiculous since there are viable
>alternative modes of gaining the same information that are equally viable,
>such as using a telephone and calling the airlines.

Many airlines offer lower Internet-only fares that you would be preventing
the disabled from having in this case.

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/




From adam at adamschwenk.com  Mon Oct  7 23:11:01 2002
From: adam at adamschwenk.com (Adam Schwenk)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DHTML scrollbar issues
In-Reply-To: <20021006170535.3C0CA3A1A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000001c26e80$a4b41610$71fb8218@adam>


	First off, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone who's helped out
so far.  I'm still struggling with this dang scrollbar thing and decided
to go with a super simple scrollbar.  It works just fine in IE and
Netscape for PC, but when you load it into mac, it doesn't scroll at
all!  I'm really at my wit's end on this thing and don't know what to
do.  Could anyone come up with suggestions, recommendations, etc?  Thank
you so much!!!

http://www.adamschwenk.com/work/wbie/index.html



	adam




From tanderson_70 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 23:19:01 2002
From: tanderson_70 at hotmail.com (tanderson_70 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
References: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com> <001101c26e7f$171a59a0$0a01a8c0@Cmp06>
Message-ID: <OE54Z86BSqEMDpCnJ710000820d@hotmail.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Here is the entire message.  Hopefully this will help you because I'm lost and spending a lot of time on it

Error Diagnostic Information
Just in time compilation error

Invalid parser construct found on line 13 at position 1. ColdFusion was looking at the following text:

EMAIL
Invalid expression format. The usual cause is an error in the expression structure.
The last successfully parsed CFML construct was static text occupying document position (12:28) to (12:39).

The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
E:\Web\


Date/Time: 10/08/02 00:16:06
Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; MSNIA; Windows 98)
Remote Address:
HTTP Referer: http://www.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rex Vincent J. Aglibot
  To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
  Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help


  list the WHOLE error message or if possible, post the code...

  it could be anything... a missing/mistyped variable can do that...


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <tanderson_70 at hotmail.com>
  To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
  Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:35 PM
  Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help


  > --
  > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
  > Can someone please tell me what this means and how I fix it?
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Error Occurred While Processing Request
  > Error Diagnostic Information
  > --
  > For unsubscribe and other options, including
  > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
  > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
  >

  --
  For unsubscribe and other options, including
  the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
  http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From tanderson_70 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  7 23:24:01 2002
From: tanderson_70 at hotmail.com (tanderson_70 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hosting 3 sites on one server on one IP address
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007204732.02ee18d8@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <OE127dTE8sqLrJiSbzb0000805c@hotmail.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are speaking of here.  I'm pretty much a novice when it comes down to it, which is probably why it has me so stumped.  I read back over the code and fixed anything that I say that may not have had that extra bracket or anything of that nature but it stil didn't help.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Anthony Baratta
  To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
  Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [thelist] hosting 3 sites on one server on one IP address


  What you want to do is "bind" site2, site3 to IP 11 from within your Web
  Server. This way any host header site1, 2 or 3 will be answered at the 11
  IP address.

  Look under Properties, General, Advanced for each virtual web site.
  ---
  Anthony Baratta
  President
  Keyboard Jockeys

  "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

  --
  For unsubscribe and other options, including
  the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
  http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From joshua at waetech.com  Mon Oct  7 23:34:04 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:34:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
References: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com> <001101c26e7f$171a59a0$0a01a8c0@Cmp06> <OE54Z86BSqEMDpCnJ710000820d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c26e83$db9c2610$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: <tanderson_70 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 12:18 AM


> Here is the entire message.  Hopefully this will help you because I'm lost
and spending a lot of time on it
>
> Error Diagnostic Information
> Just in time compilation error
>
> Invalid parser construct found on line 13 at position 1. ColdFusion was
looking at the following text:

Ok, so what's the code on line 13 of the file?  This is usually cause by
failing to have the name portion of an attribute to a cf tag.  For example:

<cfmail to="#to_email#" "#from_email">

Notice that I'm missing the from= in the above tag.

-joshua

> EMAIL
> Invalid expression format. The usual cause is an error in the expression
structure.
> The last successfully parsed CFML construct was static text occupying
document position (12:28) to (12:39).
>
> The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
> E:\Web\
>
> Date/Time: 10/08/02 00:16:06
> Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; MSNIA; Windows 98)
> Remote Address:
> HTTP Referer: http://www.



From framar at interlog.com  Mon Oct  7 23:47:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Error Please Help
In-Reply-To: <OE54Z86BSqEMDpCnJ710000820d@hotmail.com>
References: <OE427BD0lmt8Z6TBHbz000081a2@hotmail.com>
 <001101c26e7f$171a59a0$0a01a8c0@Cmp06> <OE54Z86BSqEMDpCnJ710000820d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <11427652221.20021008004628@interlog.com>

On Tuesday, October 08, 2002, 12:18:00 AM, you said:
> EMAIL
> Invalid expression format. The usual cause is an error in
> the expression structure. The last successfully parsed
> CFML construct was static text occupying document position
> (12:28) to (12:39).

> The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
> E:\Web\

Still a little bit dicey imo. It would help a little if you
could include the chunk of code around line 12. You most
likely have a function that has been mis-written.

You might have, for example placed a quote, or a comma in
the wrong place, or reversed the order of variables, or put
in something the function can't deal with.

Looking at the chunk of code around that area would help.



--
Frank Marion
Tel. 416 825 7488
framar at interlog.com
http://www.frankmarion.com



From dm at lgcy.com  Mon Oct  7 23:52:04 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Mon Oct  7 23:52:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash and IE
Message-ID: <000501c26e8e$b7ff2bc0$78ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>

How do I disable Flash in IE 6.0?

Peace,
Daniel
Feeling more like I do now than I did before
at http://www.lobowalk.com



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Tue Oct  8 00:23:02 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Tue Oct  8 00:23:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20021008035348.0E1B43A77@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <079C8161-DA7E-11D6-8A54-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

Clearlight Communications:
     http://www.clearlight.com/

Offers Mailman ListServes for $15/month for 500 subscribers.
Each extra 500 subscribers is $5/month per month.

lists.evolt.org is run with Mailman, if I'm not mistaken.

Or, run it yourself. Mailman is OpenSource:
     http://www.list.org/

Mars :)



From lists at tntluoma.com  Tue Oct  8 00:39:01 2002
From: lists at tntluoma.com (Timothy J. Luoma)
Date: Tue Oct  8 00:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing lists
References: <4Z5176XTZXLKA6TQ5YVMK8243KPJGA.3da1d49b@DANFASCIA-21>
Message-ID: <3DA26F58.7040009@tntluoma.com>

I am on a list run by http://milepost1.com/ and the person who runs the
list is VERY pleased with the service that she gets from the owner, who
is very responsive, and we have had very little downtime.

About 50-60 members on the list, averaging around 1,000 posts a week....
fwiw...

TjL


--
30 Days to becoming an Opera Lover     http://www.tntluoma.com/switch
Day 30: And More...    http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/day30-andmore/
OperaBlog: Beyond30               http://tntluoma.com/opera/beyond30/




From mark at markgroen.com  Tue Oct  8 00:47:02 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Tue Oct  8 00:47:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash and IE
In-Reply-To: <000501c26e8e$b7ff2bc0$78ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
Message-ID: <3DA20EEC.4581.2272E07@localhost>

On October 07, 2002 at 22:51, Daniel Medley wrote:

> How do I disable Flash in IE 6.0?

Tools > Internet Options > Security > Custom Level > Click Radio
Button for "Prompt" under the heading: Run Active X controls and plug-
ins

That gives you a message tht asks you whether you want it to run or
not.

HTH!




From dm at lgcy.com  Tue Oct  8 00:57:01 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Tue Oct  8 00:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash and IE
References: <3DA20EEC.4581.2272E07@localhost>
Message-ID: <002501c26e97$cca7a0d0$a0ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Groen" <mark at markgroen.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Flash and IE


> On October 07, 2002 at 22:51, Daniel Medley wrote:
>
> > How do I disable Flash in IE 6.0?
>
> Tools > Internet Options > Security > Custom Level > Click Radio
> Button for "Prompt" under the heading: Run Active X controls and plug-
> ins
>
> That gives you a message tht asks you whether you want it to run or
> not.
>
> HTH!
Thank you.

Daniel



From seyon at delime.com  Tue Oct  8 01:20:02 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:20:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] querystring appending
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021008021407.027a26a0@mail.delime.com>

Guys, got a sorta technical question here.

If you have a link like this <a href="?querystring">something</a>, IE will
append the querystring to the current filename when the link is clicked.
Other browsers, namely Opera and Moz will not.

Which implementation is correct?

Thanks.
-marc


From jon at daemon.com.au  Tue Oct  8 01:28:01 2002
From: jon at daemon.com.au (jon at daemon.com.au)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] querystring appending
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20021008021407.027a26a0@mail.delime.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20021008021407.027a26a0@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <20021008143319.1996.5@bepc.1034035526.fake>

On 2002-10-08 at 14:19:13 [+0800], you wrote:
> Guys, got a sorta technical question here.
>
> If you have a link like this <a href="?querystring">something</a>, IE
> will append the querystring to the current filename when the link is
> clicked. Other browsers, namely Opera and Moz will not.

Mozilla appends it to the site name.
It is an appropriate method to use when you have a central clearing page,
that handles all incoming request.
If used in this way ( eg: always hits www.funky.com ) then IE behaves in
the same way. Just let your default page process it.
I havent tested Opera's behaviour.

Jon.


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Tue Oct  8 01:47:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Tue Oct  8 01:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks
Message-ID: <MWMail.qhccgiar@host.none>

Hi all,

How can I assign keyboard shortcuts to hyperlinks? Not with accesskey
because that only brings the focus to the link in question...

This would have to be done with javascript I suppose.

Target browser is IE5+ (internal site).

Thanks a lot,
nmk



From szh at softhome.net  Tue Oct  8 02:22:01 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks
References: <MWMail.qhccgiar@host.none>
Message-ID: <002501c26e9b$7d768220$530987cb@haidersystem>

From: "Nickolay Kolev"
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: October 08, 2002, Tuesday 11:37 AM
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks



> How can I assign keyboard shortcuts to hyperlinks? Not with accesskey
> because that only brings the focus to the link in question...
>
> This would have to be done with javascript I suppose.

I am pretty sure that following JavaScript tutorial will help you a lot:

http://www.javascriptkit.com/javatutors/javascriptkey7.shtml

HTH!

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Tue Oct  8 02:46:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks
Message-ID: <MWMail.eldaobak@host.none>

>http://www.javascriptkit.com/javatutors/javascriptkey7.shtml

Thanks! Should do it for simple shortcuts (one key) but what about
complex ones? Ctrl+X or Alt+X or Ctrl+Alt+X?

nmk



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Oct  8 02:59:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Oct  8 02:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.eldaobak@host.none>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHHJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

nickolay,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Nickolay Kolev
>
> > http://www.javascriptkit.com/javatutors/javascriptkey7.shtml
>
> Thanks! Should do it for simple shortcuts (one key) but
> what about complex ones? Ctrl+X or Alt+X or Ctrl+Alt+X?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

first off, google is your friend for this sort of stuff.

second, since you mentioned this is going to be used in an ie-only environment, then you should probably set the msdn dhtml reference section as your homepage.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/dhtml_reference_entry.asp

as to your question, begin your research here:

altKey:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/altkey.asp

ctrlKey:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/ctrlkey.asp

shiftKey:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/shiftkey.asp

later,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com  Tue Oct  8 03:43:01 2002
From: Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com (Stevenson Ngila)
Date: Tue Oct  8 03:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SP Problem
Message-ID: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJACEMFDAAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>


I have an sp below :::::

ALTER  procedure sp_GetFixedIssues @iSite nvarchar(4000), at iFWApplication
int, at sPreviousBuild nvarchar(4000), at iToBuild int, at sLaterBuild nvarchar(4000)
AS
declare @sString nvarchar(4000)

if len(@sLaterBuild)> 0 begin

	set @sString = 'SELECT *
	FROM SupportCall
	WHERE scStatus = 1
	AND scSite LIKE ''%' + @iSite + '%''
	AND scFWApplication = '+ cast(@iFWApplication as nvarchar(10)) +'
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT sciSCID
		FROM SupportCallIncident
		WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN (' +  @sPreviousBuild +'  )
	)
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT schSCID
		FROM SupportCallHistory
		WHERE schStatus = 2
		AND cast(schBID as varchar) IN ( ' + @iToBuild + ',' + @sLaterBuild + ')
	)
	ORDER BY scID'
end
execute sp_executesql @sString

:::::::::::::::::::::::::

when i test it using :::::

""sp_GetFixedIssues
'60',1,'236,10,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,11,110,111,119,12,125,126
,127,128,129,13,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,14,140,141,142,143,1
44,145,146,148,149,15,150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,159,16,160,161,162,164
,165,166,167,168,169,17,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,18,180,184,1
85,186,187,188,189,19,190,191,192,193,196,197,198,2,20,201,202,203,204,205,2
06,209,21,210,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,22,220,221,222,224,225,226,227
,229,23,230,231,232,233,234,235,237,238,239,24,240,242,247,25,250,258,259,26
,260,266,267,269,27,270,273,274,275,28,280,281,282,283,288,289,29,290,291,29
2,293,294,299,3,30,300,301,302,303,306,308,309,31,310,311,312,313,315,316,31
8,319,32,320,321,322,328,329,33,332,333,336,337,338,34,340,341,342,343,344,3
45,35,351,352,353,354,36,360,362,363,368,369,37,371,372,377,378,38,380,381,3
82,389,39,390,4,40,400,401,406,408,409,41,410,411,413,414,42,420,43,44,45,46
,47,48,49,5,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,6,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,7,
71,72,73,75,76,77,78,79,8,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,9,90,91,92,93,94,96,
97,98,99',356,'208,228,241,243,244,245,246,248,249,251,252,253,254,255,256,2
57,261,262,263,264,265,268,272,276,277,278,279,284,285,286,295,298,304,307,3
14,317,323,324,325,326,327,331,334,335,339,346,356,357,358,359,361,364,365,3
66,367,370,373,374,375,383,384,386,403'""

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I get an error ::::::

Server: Msg 245, Level 16, State 1, Procedure sp_GetFixedIssues, Line 6
Syntax error converting the nvarchar value 'SELECT *
	FROM SupportCall
	WHERE scStatus = 1
	AND scSite LIKE '%60%'
	AND scFWApplication = 1
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT sciSCID
		FROM SupportCallIncident
		WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN
(236,10,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,11,110,111,119,12,125,126,127,12
8,129,13,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,14,140,141,142,143,144,...

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Please assist


Thanks,
Stevenson Ngila
Footman-Walker Associates Ltd
http://www.footman-walker.co.uk




From Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com  Tue Oct  8 05:39:02 2002
From: Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com (Stevenson Ngila)
Date: Tue Oct  8 05:39:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] sp Problem
Message-ID: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJAMEMIDAAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>


I have an sp below :::::

ALTER  procedure sp_GetFixedIssues @iSite nvarchar(4000), at iFWApplication
int, at sPreviousBuild nvarchar(4000), at iToBuild int, at sLaterBuild nvarchar(4000)
AS
declare @sString nvarchar(4000)

if len(@sLaterBuild)> 0 begin

	set @sString = 'SELECT *
	FROM SupportCall
	WHERE scStatus = 1
	AND scSite LIKE ''%' + @iSite + '%''
	AND scFWApplication = '+ cast(@iFWApplication as nvarchar(10)) +'
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT sciSCID
		FROM SupportCallIncident
		WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN (' +  @sPreviousBuild +'  )
	)
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT schSCID
		FROM SupportCallHistory
		WHERE schStatus = 2
		AND cast(schBID as varchar) IN ( ' + @iToBuild + ',' + @sLaterBuild + ')
	)
	ORDER BY scID'
end
execute sp_executesql @sString

:::::::::::::::::::::::::

when i test it using :::::

""sp_GetFixedIssues
'60',1,'236,10,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,11,110,111,119,12,125,126
,127,128,129,13,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,14,140,141,142,143,1
44,145,146,148,149,15,150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,159,16,160,161,162,164
,165,166,167,168,169,17,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,18,180,184,1
85,186,187,188,189,19,190,191,192,193,196,197,198,2,20,201,202,203,204,205,2
06,209,21,210,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,22,220,221,222,224,225,226,227
,229,23,230,231,232,233,234,235,237,238,239,24,240,242,247,25,250,258,259,26
,260,266,267,269,27,270,273,274,275,28,280,281,282,283,288,289,29,290,291,29
2,293,294,299,3,30,300,301,302,303,306,308,309,31,310,311,312,313,315,316,31
8,319,32,320,321,322,328,329,33,332,333,336,337,338,34,340,341,342,343,344,3
45,35,351,352,353,354,36,360,362,363,368,369,37,371,372,377,378,38,380,381,3
82,389,39,390,4,40,400,401,406,408,409,41,410,411,413,414,42,420,43,44,45,46
,47,48,49,5,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,6,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,7,
71,72,73,75,76,77,78,79,8,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,9,90,91,92,93,94,96,
97,98,99',356,'208,228,241,243,244,245,246,248,249,251,252,253,254,255,256,2
57,261,262,263,264,265,268,272,276,277,278,279,284,285,286,295,298,304,307,3
14,317,323,324,325,326,327,331,334,335,339,346,356,357,358,359,361,364,365,3
66,367,370,373,374,375,383,384,386,403'""

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I get an error ::::::

Server: Msg 245, Level 16, State 1, Procedure sp_GetFixedIssues, Line 6
Syntax error converting the nvarchar value 'SELECT *
	FROM SupportCall
	WHERE scStatus = 1
	AND scSite LIKE '%60%'
	AND scFWApplication = 1
	AND scID IN
	(
		SELECT sciSCID
		FROM SupportCallIncident
		WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN
(236,10,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,11,110,111,119,12,125,126,127,12
8,129,13,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,14,140,141,142,143,144,...

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Please assist

Thanks,
Stevenson Ngila
Footman-Walker Associates Ltd
http://www.footman-walker.co.uk




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 06:34:06 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue Oct  8 06:34:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
Message-ID: <F141iVakDgGorXhnfwh00013d1e@hotmail.com>


I'm running BBEdit 6.0 but there are two things I don't understand and the
Help function doesn't seem to function (or, in fact, help):

1) Why does it refuse to open some (but not all) HTML files unless you
choose "Show: Any file" in the Open menu? I can't drag some (but not all)
HTML files to the BBEdit alias because it simply doesn't accept them.
Instead, I have to open the file from BBEdit, requiring more work.
How do I change this?

2) How do I do a word count of a file?

<tip type="Emulating position: fixed in IE6" author="ppk">
Came across this way to emulate position: fixed in IE6 on another list.
Looks very useful: http://home.deds.nl/~thebox/ghost/fixed/index.html
</tip>

Thanks,

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From lists at miinx.com.au  Tue Oct  8 07:04:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] high bandwidth vs. low bandwidth
Message-ID: <3DA2C9B9.80304@miinx.com.au>

What's the difference when developing a high bandwidth version and a low
bandwidth version of a site?  Is it just in the content -- large files
vs. small files?  Or are there other things that should be
considered/included/etc?

TIA,
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From maurice at graciebarra.be  Tue Oct  8 07:16:01 2002
From: maurice at graciebarra.be (Maurice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
In-Reply-To: <F141iVakDgGorXhnfwh00013d1e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8F7266F-DAB7-11D6-989E-003065BC562E@graciebarra.be>

On dinsdag, okt 8, 2002, at 13:32 Europe/Brussels, Peter-Paul Koch
wrote:

>
>
> I'm running BBEdit 6.0 but there are two things I don't understand and
> the
> Help function doesn't seem to function (or, in fact, help):
>
> 1) Why does it refuse to open some (but not all) HTML files unless you
> choose "Show: Any file" in the Open menu? I can't drag some (but not
> all)
> HTML files to the BBEdit alias because it simply doesn't accept them.
> Instead, I have to open the file from BBEdit, requiring more work.
> How do I change this?
Under preferences > file types, choose add and go find the files it
won't open.
Now BBedit should open them all.

>
> 2) How do I do a word count of a file?

You'll find that under Window > Get info


hth

Maurice



From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Oct  8 07:18:02 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:18:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] high bandwidth vs. low bandwidth
References: <3DA2C9B9.80304@miinx.com.au>
Message-ID: <010001c26ec4$9b0078e0$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "miinx" <lists at miinx.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:04 AM


> What's the difference when developing a high bandwidth version and a low
> bandwidth version of a site?  Is it just in the content -- large files
> vs. small files?  Or are there other things that should be
> considered/included/etc?

Karen,

While I don't have any useful statistics or data to provide, I do have an
opinion about this subject.  I prefer that sites I visit do not have two
versions of the site UNLESS the site is uniquely enabled by the use of
fancier graphics, flash animations, sounds, etc.  For most content oriented
sites that I visit, the high-bandwidth version is usually just unnecessarily
bloated.  Putting the bandwidth differentiation close to the media (such as
when viewing a video clip on the site) is generally a good idea--this means
selecting the resolution and quality of the video once I click on the link
to view it.  Also, remembering that selection is a good idea.  I don't like
answering the high/low bandwidth question every time I try to view some rich
media.

my 2c

-joshua



From maurice at graciebarra.be  Tue Oct  8 07:24:01 2002
From: maurice at graciebarra.be (Maurice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
In-Reply-To: <F141iVakDgGorXhnfwh00013d1e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF3ABA8A-DAB8-11D6-989E-003065BC562E@graciebarra.be>

One other thing, download the updater for BBedit 6.1.2 here:

http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/bbedit-updates.html

Maurice

On dinsdag, okt 8, 2002, at 13:32 Europe/Brussels, Peter-Paul Koch
wrote:

> I'm running BBEdit 6.0 but there are two things I don't understand and
> the
> Help function doesn't seem to function (or, in fact, help):



From dnuttall at dnlt.com  Tue Oct  8 07:35:02 2002
From: dnuttall at dnlt.com (Dave Nuttall)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:35:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_auth_mysql & RedHat
Message-ID: <NEBBICLICOEMMGDNHPIOGEAODLAA.dnuttall@dnlt.com>

Regardless of the recent version of RedHat Linux, it seems like I "need" to
update Apache, PHP, and/or shared modules.  Most of the time its not a
problem to get things working, but for some reason I'm consistently stymied
with "mod_auth_mysql" recompiles.

Basically, with Apache compiled with DSO support, the appropriate compile
method is to use "apxs" from the current installed version of Apache.

In the case of Apache 1.3.x, the first command line goes something like:

	apxs -c -D APACHE -l mysqlclient -lm mod_auth_mysql.c
	    or for Apache 2.0.x
	apxs -c -D APACHE2 -l mysqlclient -lm mod_auth_mysql.c

Whether I'm on RedHat 7.3 or 8.0, those steps always seem to work as
expected.
Its the next and finalizing step that is baffling.  We think that should be:

	apxs -i mod_auth_mysql.la
	where the *.la file is created with the step discussed above.

What fails is the libtool seems to NOT be able to create/write the *.so file
in
the appropriate directory, even though the process is executed as root and
permissions
are set to 777.

Apologies to all if this is not your cup of tea and you don't want this kind
of stuff discussed here.  However, short of picketing the RedHat
headquarters and demanding assistance, I've drawn a lot of blank
stares/non-responses with postings in other venues.

Hope some can help us (speaking on behalf of Sam Brauer, keeper of
mod_auth_mysql on SourceForge!).

TIA.
Dave Nuttall
San Antonio, TX






From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Oct  8 07:43:03 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Oct  8 07:43:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again
In-Reply-To: <NEBBICLICOEMMGDNHPIOGEAODLAA.dnuttall@dnlt.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEAADOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Hi All

This is purely as a matter of interest so fire away at leisure :)  First an
example:  A hosting companies server 7 goes down leaving 100 domains homeless
  what would be the procedure to get them all back up and running.  ok it will
depend on the problem, of course it would.  Lets just say for the simplicity,
that someone walks past the server and trips over the mains supply lead and
pulls the plug!

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From stephen at jetfiredesign.com  Tue Oct  8 08:14:03 2002
From: stephen at jetfiredesign.com (Stephen Nelson)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:14:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <20021008035348.0E1B43A77@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBMEAMCCAA.stephen@jetfiredesign.com>

I think you are right on that Southwest will settle out of court, but I
don't think it is because they feel they will lose the case.  There are
still to many questions from a legal standpoint to say it would go one way
or another.  I think the biggest reason why companies are settling out of
court is publicity.

What company in todays economy wants to look like the bad guy and have it
plastered on every major media outlet.  Their lawyers are probably saying it
is a tossup and the marketing folks are shouting with all their might,
"SETTLE".

Just my two cents.  It would be nice if somebody went to court so that it
would help clear the air.

Stephen


-----Original Message-----

Message: 1
From: "Brian W King" <bking at impact-technologies.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
pertain to Internet Content?
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:45:22 -0400
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org

I think that we will probably see Southwest settle out of court too.  No one
seems to want to be the guinea pig on this one.  Knee jerk says that if the
companies are settling out of court, that they know they are on shaky ground
at best.





From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 08:19:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML parsing
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDB@fsjubj09>

>Option 1 is siblings all as children of the root element.
>Option 2 is infinitely nested siblings. The younger brother nested inside
the
>elder.
>
>Option 2 is more complicated to parse, will take longer and drain more
memory.
>Option 1 is the way xml is intended to be used.

Huh? This doesn't make any sense to me at all. If you are creating
parent-child relationships, why not model them as parent-child elements?

I won't necessarily argue with you about the memory usage issue, but then
that's why we have SAX parsers. :)

My issue here is the assertion that "Option 1 is the way XML is meant to be
used", meaning it shouldn't have nested parent-child relationships. If this
were true then 99.999% of XML applications, including XHTML and SOAP, would
be invalid. I also find it hard to believe the W3C would have spent so much
time giving XML the capability to model these relationships if it weren't
meant to be used this way.

Luckily I have the original e-mail, so let's recap: (I added "root" for
clarity and cleaned it up a bit)

	[Option 1]
	<root>
		<topic id="1" name="joe" />
		<topic id="2" name="joe's kid" parent="1" />  <!-- CHILD of
id=1 -->
	</root>

	[Option 2]
	<root>
		<topic id="1" name="joe">
			<topic id="2" name="joe's kid" />  <!-- CHILD of
id=1 -->
		</topic>
	</root>

The key point to me in option 1 is the use of the "parent" attribute. Using
this states unequivocally that I am modeling a parent-child relationship.
But instead of using the built-in features of the XML DOM (ChildNodes
collection, and the XPath axes "parent", "child", "descendant",
"descendant-or-self", "ancestor", and "ancestor-or-self") I have decided I'm
going to write my own parent-child parser.

Not sure *why* I have to write this capability myself, but I'm told it's
"the way xml is intended to be used." ;P

Just my $.02,
-dave


From lists at miinx.com.au  Tue Oct  8 08:35:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check: http://www.tzafon.org/newsite/
References: <000201c26e5e$4ef51160$68a8a8c0@jason>
Message-ID: <3DA2DF03.5000007@miinx.com.au>

Jason Lustig wrote:
> If you want to see a screenshot of what it looks like on my computer
> (which is what I was going for), you can take a look at
> http://www.buffalo.edu/~lustig/screenshot.jpg.

Looks just like that in Moz 1.1 on W2K.  Nice, although I'm also not
sure about the positioning of the content...  I guess mainly cos I'm so
used to seeing it start at the same horizontal level as the nav.  Yours
is kinda like seeing a toaster with the slots on the side - still works,
just takes some getting used to.

One comment - you've got all the alumni email addresses publicly
harvestable on those pages, also the AIM details...  may be worth
considering securing that area, or looking into an email hiding/parsing
script or something..

also, whenever a menu option is too wide for the column, it extends over
the column border (e.g. " membership/programming home" link on calendar
page when viewed at 800x600)

hth
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 08:38:02 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:38:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] querystring appending
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDC@fsjubj09>

>If you have a link like this <a href="?querystring">something</a>, IE will
>append the querystring to the current filename when the link is clicked.
>Other browsers, namely Opera and Moz will not.

Here's a very simple workaround that DOES work in Mozilla 1.1 for WinXP, at
least using IIS:

	<a href="./?querystring">something</a>

I have tons of links in a new design I'm working on here, and each
subsection has a central file managing all links between files within that
section to reduce file relationships. I have links that look like this:

	<a href="./?action=home">Main Page</a>
	<a href="./?action=webteam">Contact the Web Team</a>
	<a href="./?action=problemreport">Submit a Problem Report</a>

All those links are within the /contact folder and they are routed by the
server to default.asp.

Links to other areas would reference the folder and action, e.g.:

	<a href="/calendar/?action=events.calendarview">Calendar</a>
	<a href="/?action=homepage">Homepage</a>

HTH,
-dave


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Tue Oct  8 08:55:02 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:55:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intranet)
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636AFF2@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Hi all -

I manage an Intranet and for a while have been thinking about the following
question.   I am often provided Word or Excel documents and asked to post
them to the Intranet.  Since we are in a managed environment there are no
issues of access - everyone has common operating environment (COE).  So the
question is should I post the documents as Word documents or convert them to
web pages.

The benefit that I find of converting them is that they load faster and look
more webby.  The downside is that I have to convert them and reformat them
which takes time as well as the fact that I have to manage changes to the
documents whenever they are desired.

So what do others tend to do?

Thanks -
Josh


From scott at rigent.com  Tue Oct  8 08:57:06 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:57:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEAADOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001b01c26eeb$cea5af90$6b01a8c0@lapdog>

I can only read your message with a Jon Lovitz impersenation - "a friend of
mine - yeah that's it, a friend - he ... um...  "accidentally" destroyed an
entire company - yeah it was an ACCident ..."  :)

In most cases if the UNIX or LINUX server is configured correctly - and the
plug was just pulled- then restarting the machine should restart everything
you need.  Servers can usually be restarted remotely by root so when you're
remote you need to depend on everything restarting without you sitting at a
terminal - and if you have a lot of servers - a terminal for each box....
hmm... pain in the butt.  I guess there is always a possibility that you
would have hard drive damage or something of the sort but as you said- it
depends on the problem.

sm


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:45 AM
Subject: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again


> Hi All
>
> This is purely as a matter of interest so fire away at leisure :)  First
an
> example:  A hosting companies server 7 goes down leaving 100 domains
homeless
>   what would be the procedure to get them all back up and running.  ok it
will
> depend on the problem, of course it would.  Lets just say for the
simplicity,
> that someone walks past the server and trips over the mains supply lead
and
> pulls the plug!
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Tue Oct  8 08:59:06 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Tue Oct  8 08:59:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intranet)
In-Reply-To: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636AFF2@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJMEOECLAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

I would post them as Word docs.  Why go through the hassles of everything
else?  Does anyone actually care if they're webpages or not?  Furthermore
you could post them as PDFs if they're not really meant to be edited
further.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Hi all -
>
> I manage an Intranet and for a while have been thinking about the
> following
> question.   I am often provided Word or Excel documents and asked to post
> them to the Intranet.  Since we are in a managed environment there are no
> issues of access - everyone has common operating environment
> (COE).  So the
> question is should I post the documents as Word documents or
> convert them to
> web pages.
>
> The benefit that I find of converting them is that they load
> faster and look
> more webby.  The downside is that I have to convert them and reformat them
> which takes time as well as the fact that I have to manage changes to the
> documents whenever they are desired.
>
> So what do others tend to do?
>
> Thanks -
> Josh



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 09:16:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 09:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intr
	anet)
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDD@fsjubj09>

>The benefit that I find of converting them is that they load faster and
look
>more webby.  The downside is that I have to convert them and reformat them
>which takes time as well as the fact that I have to manage changes to the
>documents whenever they are desired.

If you are using IIS you can have them indexed, which eliminates the only
*real* reason I see to convert them, namely searchability. Index Server can
index MS Office docs, and with a plugin can index PDF docs as well.

-dave


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue Oct  8 09:19:01 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue Oct  8 09:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash and IE
In-Reply-To: <3DA20EEC.4581.2272E07@localhost>
References: <000501c26e8e$b7ff2bc0$78ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021008091604.01a53ff8@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 12:47 AM 10/8/2002, you wrote:
> > How do I disable Flash in IE 6.0?
>
>Tools > Internet Options > Security > Custom Level > Click Radio
>Button for "Prompt" under the heading: Run Active X controls and plug-
>ins

Alternatively, it has been suggested on this list before (IIRC) that you
can download a little utility that sits in your systray called FlashSwitch
(http://www.flashswitch.com/) to toggle Flash on and off.

--Ben



From jacques_capesius at cnt.com  Tue Oct  8 09:28:01 2002
From: jacques_capesius at cnt.com (Jacques Capesius)
Date: Tue Oct  8 09:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML Beginner Question II
Message-ID: <6561B23FEAA18F45AE6A667DBE02C7671FC62C@esply05>

Hi guys,

1st off, thanks to the folks who have helped me before, and to all of you
who help. You make my life so much easier.

I'm dinking with an ASP XML parser. I was trying to refer to an XML Node by
nodename, something like this...

XML===============================
<web_articles>
  <webObject>
	<IDNo>2</IDNo>
	<Title>Press Release 3</Title>
   </webObject>
</web_articles>

/XML===============================

now, can I do something similar to this, to refer to the contents of the
IDNo node directly, as opposed to as a Node index like childnodes(0)?

set objElements = objXML.SelectSingleNode("web_articles")
theContent = objElements.childNodes(0).childNodes("IDNo").text
response.write(theContent)

I know the syntax for that is wrong, but hopefully you fellas get the gyst
of what I'm trying to do. thanks for any help you can give.

-jacques :)


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Oct  8 09:29:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Oct  8 09:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] myadmin php error
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDD@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEAFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

recently I installed the new version of php and since then I haven't used
phpmyadmin just had a quick and the following is showing at the bottom of the
page!

Error
The additional Features for working with linked Tables have been deactivated.

Any ideas?

Andrew

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From jacborg at mac.com  Tue Oct  8 09:43:01 2002
From: jacborg at mac.com (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Tue Oct  8 09:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
In-Reply-To: <F141iVakDgGorXhnfwh00013d1e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D5D80CB-DACC-11D6-8375-000502A39AB6@mac.com>

I guess you're running in system 9... try to rebuild da desktop.
AFAIK restart and press [command][option] system will look for the key
press just before the desktop appears...

mosht probablie ze desttop file got corrupted after one too many
crashes ;-)

hth

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 01:32 PM, Peter-Paul Koch wrote:

> I'm running BBEdit 6.0 but there are two things I don't understand and
> the
> Help function doesn't seem to function (or, in fact, help):



From listman at hazard0us.org  Tue Oct  8 10:12:01 2002
From: listman at hazard0us.org (listman at hazard0us.org)
Date: Tue Oct  8 10:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SP Problem 
Message-ID: <OFEE46CE79.7F683DEF-ON43256C4C.00525A57@symphony.co.ke>

In :

>SELECT schSCID
>FROM SupportCallHistory
>WHERE schStatus = 2
>AND cast(schBID as varchar) IN ( ' + @iToBuild + ',' + @sLaterBuild + ')
>)
>ORDER BY scID'

This line appears to be wrong :

>AND cast(schBID as varchar) IN ( ' + @iToBuild + ',' + @sLaterBuild + ')

what you have missed is putting the single quotes within the IN() clause
so instead of getting passed as :

>WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN
>('236','10','100','101','102','103','104',.....

it is getting passed as :

>WHERE cast(sciBuildNo as varchar) IN
>(236,10,100,101,102,103,104,.....

so it gives in error as an attempt is made to match a  buildno char to the
integer contents of IN()-

You can do either of the following to correct matters:

cast sciBuildNo as an  integer,  instead of varchar (or) pad @iToBuild &
@sLaterBuild with single quotes....


HTH
ashok

------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.unganisha.org
------








From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 10:56:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 10:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML Beginner Question II
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFE0@fsjubj09>

>now, can I do something similar to this, to refer to the contents of the
>IDNo node directly, as opposed to as a Node index like childnodes(0)?
>
>set objElements = objXML.SelectSingleNode("web_articles")
>theContent = objElements.childNodes(0).childNodes("IDNo").text
>response.write(theContent)

Try this:

	objElements.SelectSingleNode( "webObject/IDNo" ).text

HTH,
-dave


From mike at nthwave.net  Tue Oct  8 11:18:01 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:18:01 2002
Subject: Genealogy (was: [thelist] XML parsing)
References: <MBBBLMPGPBJGFMPJCNPJOENDCOAA.subscriptions@cbrody.com>
Message-ID: <3DA30510.FA66B5EF@nthwave.net>


Chris Brody wrote:

> PeterV wrote:
> > [option 2]
> > <topic id="1" name="joe">
> > <topic id="2" name="joe's kid">
> > </topic>
> > </topic>
>
> Michael Mell wrote:
> >> Option 1 is siblings all as children of the root element.
> >> Option 2 is infinitely nested siblings. The younger brother
> >> nested inside the elder.
>
> Michael, you have either misinterpreted the orginal post, or confused your
> terminology. Siblings cannot be "nested", even in the case of incest.
>

I quite agree that siblings cannot be nested and this is the point I have been
arguing.
m
--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From badlanners at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 11:27:01 2002
From: badlanners at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
Message-ID: <OE20LoU2gOHpM2yqOX90000d2a3@hotmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm very new to working with MS SQL Server.  I've done websites with ASP and
Access before, but am just starting to work with SQL Server.  So, please
forgive the utter ignorance of this question!

I created a Database and website that uses it.  Now the client needs those
things on their server.  They don't want to give me access to their server
yet and so I can't create or transfer the DB onto their server.  They,
instead, asked for me to send the DB to them.  With Access, I know it's a
mdb file.  I'm not sure what they need from me in the form of physical files
for this SQL DB

The client seems to be as clueless as I am.  They asked for backup of the
DB, and I did just that - backed up the DB to a file and sent them that.
However, I'm not sure if you can restore a DB to a different Server Group
with only that file.  Do they need the LDF and MDF files as well?

I feel like a moron.  Can somebody give me a quick lowdown on what steps I
need to do to get this DB to the client, and perhaps the steps on what they
would do with what I gave them?  I am famliar with setting up the ODBC
connection after the DB is in place...

Thanks so much!
adam

Adam 'bread_man' Slesinger
http://www.thebadlans.net




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Oct  8 11:28:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again
In-Reply-To: <001b01c26eeb$cea5af90$6b01a8c0@lapdog>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEAJDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

thank you for that, v useful to know

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott McPhee
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 05:58
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again


I can only read your message with a Jon Lovitz impersenation - "a friend of
mine - yeah that's it, a friend - he ... um...  "accidentally" destroyed an
entire company - yeah it was an ACCident ..."  :)

In most cases if the UNIX or LINUX server is configured correctly - and the
plug was just pulled- then restarting the machine should restart everything
you need.  Servers can usually be restarted remotely by root so when you're
remote you need to depend on everything restarting without you sitting at a
terminal - and if you have a lot of servers - a terminal for each box....
hmm... pain in the butt.  I guess there is always a possibility that you
would have hard drive damage or something of the sort but as you said- it
depends on the problem.

sm


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:45 AM
Subject: [thelist] Unix hosting servers getting running again


> Hi All
>
> This is purely as a matter of interest so fire away at leisure :)  First
an
> example:  A hosting companies server 7 goes down leaving 100 domains
homeless
>   what would be the procedure to get them all back up and running.  ok it
will
> depend on the problem, of course it would.  Lets just say for the
simplicity,
> that someone walks past the server and trips over the mains supply lead
and
> pulls the plug!
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From janice at discoverysystems.com  Tue Oct  8 11:30:01 2002
From: janice at discoverysystems.com (janice)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
Message-ID: <B9C88041.1A1C8%janice@discoverysystems.com>

Hi all,

After going down several different paths with our site development, finding
er... issues with some of our dynamic text implementation, we finally came
up with a solution that works cross platform on *most* browsers (thanks to
the wonderful advise and guidance from a certain member of this list, to
whom I'm extremely grateful!!!)

However, before turning over to our marketing folk to add content, etc.
thought I'd take a look-see at how it looks in A-O-HELL - yikes! Having
problems with the dynamic text not being positioned where it should be. It
appears that the visibility being turned off and on, but the text remains in
the position it would be if we were *not* using dynamic text. Um... hard to
explain so perhaps you could take a look at the following:

http://averra.com/pages/about.htm

The menu buttons on the left change out the content and the table cell
*should* resize itself based on the content in the <div>. In AOL, the table
cell is not resizing, but staying the height it would be if all the content
were visible.

I haven't looked at the site on AOL on Windows yet, but on v5 on the Mac,
does not behave well at all! Could someone let me know if this same
phenomenon is happening on Windows?

Does anyone have a solution for this issue??? Am thinking I'll need to
create separate pages for NN4.7 anyway since my changeText function doesn't
seem to be working for that browser version - may just send those on AOL to
these pages as well. BUT... if there's a solution would prefer not to create
the separate pages.


Thanking you in advance for any insight!

Janice



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Oct  8 11:43:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
In-Reply-To: <OE20LoU2gOHpM2yqOX90000d2a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008093941.01ce96a0@baratta.com>

At 09:27 AM 10/8/2002, Adam Slesinger wrote:

>The client seems to be as clueless as I am.  They asked for backup of the
>DB, and I did just that - backed up the DB to a file and sent them that.
>However, I'm not sure if you can restore a DB to a different Server Group
>with only that file.  Do they need the LDF and MDF files as well?

You did fine if you used the Backup options in Enterprise Manager. It
creates a file that will allow you to restore from. They should have no
problem restoring it. The only trick is if the directories and file names
are different you need to tell the restore process where the new location
and file names are, it will try and use the source location and file names.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From listman at hazard0us.org  Tue Oct  8 11:47:01 2002
From: listman at hazard0us.org (listman at hazard0us.org)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
Message-ID: <OF9D2DBDAB.2CD8E80F-ON43256C4C.005B8517@symphony.co.ke>

>They asked for backup of the
>DB, and I did just that - backed up the DB to a file and sent them that.
>However, I'm not sure if you can restore a DB to a different Server Group
>with only that file.  Do they need the LDF and MDF files as well?

If you took a SQL Backup of the database from SQL Server enterprise manager
-
You did the right thing.  You dont need to send the MDF & LDF files if you
have
sent the backup to them.

Though your client might run into problems like orphaned-users :
http://www.sqlteam.com/redir.asp?ItemID=10519
when they restore the database at their end.

HTH
ashok

------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.unganisha.org
------






From peter at poorbuthappy.com  Tue Oct  8 11:57:01 2002
From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (PeterV)
Date: Tue Oct  8 11:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] xfml
In-Reply-To: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJACEMFDAAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>
Message-ID: <000601c26eeb$97fbd9b0$d4585fc3@peter>

I published XFML Core today, a language to exchange hierarchical,
faceted metadata. I have the impression the hardest thing about it isn't
the language (it's pretty straightforward) but the concepts.
http://xfml.org
Maybe I should write an article for evolt?
Peter




From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Tue Oct  8 12:02:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
References: <B9C88041.1A1C8%janice@discoverysystems.com>
Message-ID: <003501c26eec$46666c90$9865fea9@Laptop>

Works fine in AOL 7 (pc) just as it does in IE 6 (same Win2K machine). AOL
for the pc uses the IE rendering engine so someone with AOL 7 but IE 5
installed may see something different than me.

>Am thinking I'll need to
> create separate pages for NN4.7 anyway since my changeText function
doesn't
> seem to be working for that browser version - may just send those on AOL
to
> these pages as well. BUT... if there's a solution would prefer not to
create
> the separate pages.

Javascript detecting AOL (pc) is not reliable because the agent sometimes
identifies itself as IE, so I wouldn't count on that.

As an aside, your design is nice but is there any reason why /you have to/
use dynamic text to change the main content area? Instead of
building/maintaining alternative pages for different browsers, why not make
your current, single page into several html pages, and deal with browser
differences with alternative style sheets if necessary. Not as slick I know
as the DHTML you have but much easier/economical to build and maintain. At
least that's my conclusion after exhausting myself building unnecessarily
complicated interfaces in the past.

Sorry I don't have a real solution for AOL (mac). Good luck.


Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com





From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 12:10:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] IIS custom 500.100 error script question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFE1@fsjubj09>

Has anyone else had problems with using Server.Execute inside a custom
error-handler ASP script under IIS 5.1?

I have a custom ASP script set up for 500;100 error codes, and it works
*perfectly* -- provided I call the error script directly in the browser.

Once I throw an error from an ASP script, things get nasty. The custom error
script doesn't work properly. I've got a standardized system for building
the site, and I'd like to use it in the 500-100.asp script. This system
makes use of numerous Server.Execute calls, one for each of the main page
areas, namely: global nav bar, masthead, site nav bar, and footer. The body
content is sandwiched between the site toolbar and the footer calls.

However, the output stops at the first toolbar, i.e. it only handles one
Server.Execute call.

Once I figured out it was having problems with the Server.Execute, I created
a test script like this:

        <%
        Option Explicit
        Server.Execute "test1.asp"
        response.write "<hr>"
        'Server.Execute "test2.asp"
        %>

Where each file simply says "test one" or "test two".

However, now I get this very non-informative error:

        error '8000d001'
        /ilspo/shared/custom_errors/500-100.asp, line 3

So according to this it is dying on the FIRST server.execute statement,
whereas before it always executed ONE but failed on the others. I verified
this by commenting out the first server.execute in the "standardized"
approach (the "global toolbar" one) and it would reliably execute the first
one it then encountered (the masthead), but no more (i.e. not the site
toolbar or footer scripts).

Now with the test script it doesn't do ANY of the server.executes.

Anybody have any idea why this is happening? I can't find anything on Google
or the MS Knowledge Base on this. :(

Many many many thanks in advance if you can help shed light on this...
-dave


From evolt at brasscannon.net  Tue Oct  8 12:29:01 2002
From: evolt at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_auth_mysql & RedHat
In-Reply-To: <20021008163411.CF08C3A85@relay.evolt.org>
References: <20021008163411.CF08C3A85@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20021008172831.GB13359@basilisk>

Quoth "Dave Nuttall" <dnuttall at dnlt.com>

> Regardless of the recent version of RedHat Linux, it seems like I "need" to
> update Apache, PHP, and/or shared modules.  Most of the time its not a
> problem to get things working, but for some reason I'm consistently stymied
> with "mod_auth_mysql" recompiles.

Oh, yeah.  Just ran into that little buzzsaw myself, both on Linux
and on Solaris.  Couple of things that need to be addressed.

I usually symlink /usr/local/lib/lib_mysql_auth.so.11 to the /usr/lib
directory as /usr/lib/lib_mysql_auth.so and that allows the Apache make
command to finish.

I'm puzzled too, because the Makefile seems to have the path information
that would make this symlink unnecessary; but no.  Please see the gory
details:

 http://brasscannon.com/diary/applications.html#Apache

N.B: This page wasn't originally meant to be a current reference; but I
figured people would find it on Google while looking for help building
Apache 1.3.26 to fix the recent security holes, and so it would be a
disservice to the community if I failed to update at least that part.
The "current" part is pretty well distinguished from the "historical"
part, I hope!


From kimberly.carroll at art.com  Tue Oct  8 12:32:01 2002
From: kimberly.carroll at art.com (Kimberly Carroll)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site reviews - online collection methods?
In-Reply-To: <004901c26cbc$e77ff790$3c00a8c0@wtp.art>
Message-ID: <008c01c26ef0$a08851d0$3c00a8c0@wtp.art>

This is an update to my earlier post about online site reviews.
I've created a test model for collecting online site reviews using a
popular survey site & then sending invites to customers and associates
to complete the exercise. In exchange, we're giving them gift
certificates to use on our site.

If any of you are interested in exploring the idea of online site
reviews, or would like to do the exercise (yes, you would also get a
gift certificate) drop me a note off the list.

Kimberly

<tip type=outlook author=kimberly.carroll at art.com>
Shave a few seconds when using Outlook:
Task		Ctrl - Shft - K
Category	Alt G
Contact		Ctrl - Shft - C
Event		Ctrl - Shft - A
All Day		Alt Y
No Reminder	Alt R
New Folder	Ctrl - Shft - E
Save & Close	Alt S
</tip>



From brian at brianreaves.com  Tue Oct  8 12:32:08 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:32:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] NS 4.05 Page Reloading b/c of Form's
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILEEKJDCAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

http://www.beachrentalvacations.com/temp/index2.php

Using NS 4.05 on WIN2K, this page loads and reloads unless I remove one of
the forms. Can you only have one form on a page for NS 4.05? I am using
different names for each form.

TIA,
Brian




From pieter.claerhout at pandora.be  Tue Oct  8 12:43:02 2002
From: pieter.claerhout at pandora.be (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:43:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Searching for a multi-lingual CMS written in PHP or PERL
Message-ID: <007301c26ef2$1fd24490$0100a8c0@TSJERNOCHILL>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi all,

I'm looking for a content management system that is capable of handling multi-lingual content. Preferably, I would like one that is powered by PHP or PERL (since that is what my provider supports). Most of the CMS packages I found on the web are able to handle one language at a time, but almost none of them gives you the ability to enter the contents in different languages.

Any suggestions you can give?

Thanks,


Pieter
--



From nparrot at pair.com  Tue Oct  8 12:55:01 2002
From: nparrot at pair.com (Nicole P)
Date: Tue Oct  8 12:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Searching for a multi-lingual CMS written in PHP or PERL
References: <007301c26ef2$1fd24490$0100a8c0@TSJERNOCHILL>
Message-ID: <010801c26ef3$c12d8790$4603fea9@nparrot>

PostNuke.com

I've had two sites running French and English.
http://www.501st.ca
http://www.aqed.qc.ca (not yet launched)

Nicole
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pieter Claerhout" <pieter.claerhout at pandora.be>
> I'm looking for a content management system that is capable of handling
multi-lingual content. Preferably, I would like one that is powered by PHP
or PERL (since that is what my provider supports). Most of the CMS packages
I found on the web are able to handle one language at a time, but almost
none of them gives you the ability to enter the contents in different
languages.




From scott at rigent.com  Tue Oct  8 13:32:01 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Tue Oct  8 13:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] myadmin php error
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEAFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003201c26ef8$51806930$6501a8c0@mcmook>

>From the php admin manual :

Starting with version 2.3.0 phpMyAdmin offers a lot of features to work
with master / foreign - tables. To use those as well as the bookmark
feature you will need to create a new db.

To use this functionality as superuser create a new database:
create a new database for phpmyadmin:
  CREATE DATABASE phpmyadmin;
Note that "controluser" must have SELECT, INSERT and DELETE privileges
on this database. Here is a query to set up those privileges (using
"phpmyadmin" as the database name, and "pma" as the controluser):
  GRANT SELECT,INSERT,DELETE ON phpmyadmin.* to 'pma'@localhost;
do not give any other user rights on this database.
enter the databasename in $cfg['Servers'][$i]['pmadb']


sm


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> Sent: October 8, 2002 10:31 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] myadmin php error
>
>
> recently I installed the new version of php and since then I
> haven't used phpmyadmin just had a quick and the following is
> showing at the bottom of the page!
>
> Error
> The additional Features for working with linked Tables have
> been deactivated.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Andrew
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Tue Oct  8 14:02:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intranet)
In-Reply-To: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636AFF2@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <000001c26efd$1dd08020$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

I manage an Intranet and for a while have been thinking about the
following
question.   I am often provided Word or Excel documents and asked to
post
them to the Intranet.  Since we are in a managed environment there are
no issues of access - everyone has common operating environment (COE).
So the question is should I post the documents as Word documents or
convert them to web pages.

The benefit that I find of converting them is that they load faster and
look more webby.  The downside is that I have to convert them and
reformat them which takes time as well as the fact that I have to manage
changes to the documents whenever they are desired.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Arrgh!

Word/Powerpoint/Excel documents on my company's intranet are the bane of
my life!  I hate them!  I would strongly suggest converting them, and
here's the reasons:

1: Word etc do not produce valid code and puts all kinds of rubbish into
the page (just look at the jargon Excel puts into any table cell in a
time or monetary value in)

Think that's not an issue?  What happens if your company decides to swap
from IE to NS?  You could well be looking at an unusable intranet.
Also, do you employ someone who is disabled?  If you don't, you may well
do in the future.  How well do you think that Word html stands up
against the rigours of the WAI?  Just because most of the high profile
legislation at the moment covers internet sites, you can bet that any
employment legislation will in some form cover intranets.  In the UK it
appears to be covered by the DDA 1995 Act which covers employment rights
for disabled for companies with more than 15 employees.  You've got all
the "normal" disabled access items such as ramps, toilets etc, but what
about your intrat.  If your guys need that to do their job and it's not
accessible, you could well be in trouble.  You're going to have to make
changes to your code to comply with the WAI, so why not strip out all
that useless code at the same time?

2: The files are vastly bigger than they need to be - you can generally
reduce a Word document by at least 50% by CSSing it.

Why have massive pages full of terrible code?  At some point they're
going to be edited from the code, unless you're never going to touch
them.  The pages will load quicker and will look better if you strip out
that terrible code that gets generated by the save as html wizard('s
sleeve (reference for Roger Mellie fans)).

Please don't just use MS generated html.  Have some pride in your
intranet!


Cheers

Francis




From jtocher at discoverysystems.com  Tue Oct  8 14:15:00 2002
From: jtocher at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
In-Reply-To: <003501c26eec$46666c90$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID: <B9C8A638.1A228%jtocher@discoverysystems.com>

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the check in AOL on Win - good to hear the probs are not there,
so our only issue will be with those on Mac surfing with v5.

Appreciate your comments/suggestions about the interface, however our
'designer' didn't like the page refreshing for each menu click - and, seemed
like an interesting (and challenging) alternative (albeit, took much longer
to design than separate HTML pages would have).

Still curious if anyone else has any ideas on why this is not working in AOL
v5/Mac. And, for that matter, NN 4.7.

Thanks
Janice

on 10/8/02 1:00 PM, you wrote:

> Works fine in AOL 7 (pc) just as it does in IE 6 (same Win2K machine). AOL
> for the pc uses the IE rendering engine so someone with AOL 7 but IE 5
> installed may see something different than me.
>
>> Am thinking I'll need to
>> create separate pages for NN4.7 anyway since my changeText function
> doesn't
>> seem to be working for that browser version - may just send those on AOL
> to
>> these pages as well. BUT... if there's a solution would prefer not to
> create
>> the separate pages.
>
> Javascript detecting AOL (pc) is not reliable because the agent sometimes
> identifies itself as IE, so I wouldn't count on that.
>
> As an aside, your design is nice but is there any reason why /you have to/
> use dynamic text to change the main content area? Instead of
> building/maintaining alternative pages for different browsers, why not make
> your current, single page into several html pages, and deal with browser
> differences with alternative style sheets if necessary. Not as slick I know
> as the DHTML you have but much easier/economical to build and maintain. At
> least that's my conclusion after exhausting myself building unnecessarily
> complicated interfaces in the past.
>
> Sorry I don't have a real solution for AOL (mac). Good luck.
>
>
> Regards,
> Bob Haroche
> O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
> www.OnPointSolutions.com
>
>



From nparrot at pair.com  Tue Oct  8 14:17:01 2002
From: nparrot at pair.com (Nicole P)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intranet)
References: <000001c26efd$1dd08020$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <011901c26eff$4399e470$4603fea9@nparrot>

> Please don't just use MS generated html.  Have some pride in your
> intranet!


I may be wrong, but I think the original poster meant to put the Word
documents AS IS, not transferring them to HTML.
That way, WORD would start on the user's machine, and voil?, document
exactly as what the user's familiar with. It's a solution I've used before,
when in a controlled environment, and if the company decdes to go from WORD
to Word Perfect, well, all documents have to be converted anyway...

Nicole



From badlanners at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 14:18:00 2002
From: badlanners at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008093941.01ce96a0@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <OE32pr73j6xpZKamj930000d135@hotmail.com>

Hi Anthony,

I did just that - created a full database backup with the Enterprise
Manager.  The client didn't know what to do with it because I created a file
with no extension.  My fear was that since they never created the DB on
their server, the Restore option in Enterprise Manager wouldn't display the
backup to use.  When I did a test restore overhere, you had to select what
database you wanted to display backups for, and I assumed they wouldn't have
that database to choose from since it never existed on their end...  what
are your thoughts on that?

Anyways, I appreciate the help!  Thanks!

adam

bread_man

"Ein halber Laib ist besser als gar kein Brot."

> You did fine if you used the Backup options in Enterprise Manager. It
> creates a file that will allow you to restore from. They should have no
> problem restoring it. The only trick is if the directories and file names
> are different you need to tell the restore process where the new location
> and file names are, it will try and use the source location and file
names.



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Oct  8 14:18:22 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:18:22 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intr
	anet)
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFE3@fsjubj09>

>Word/Powerpoint/Excel documents on my company's intranet are the bane of
>my life!  I hate them!  I would strongly suggest converting them, and
>here's the reasons:

I think the issue is convert them to html vs leave them in binary format. If
you are in a controlled environment and know everyone has Office, then
binary is fine. That's what I do. And Index Server can index the content no
problem.

Now, if the issue is convert to MS HTML vs clean up the HTML, then
definitely clean it up! You can do all your documents in no time flat with
Tidy.

As for accessibility, the users would have to be able to use Office in the
first place to work with the documents otherwise, therefore they have to
have some form of screen reader or screen magnifier software already in
place, so there shouldn't be a problem. I used to work with a man who was
legally blind but could still see a little bit, provided his screen was
magnified so much you could read his tiny icon text across the room, and he
still had to have his nose literally pressed to the screen. But it worked,
and he could work relatively well. He didn't need WAI or anything else in
order to use MS Office documents, though it would certainly have helped him
navigate the web to download those documents... :(

Man I'm opinionated today! ;P

-dave


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Tue Oct  8 14:35:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intr
	 anet)
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636B006@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I think the issue is convert them to html vs leave them in binary format.

Well, I might as well clarify what I meant.  The original issue is to cut
the data from the document and paste it into the general Intrnet template,
not to dump html from word.  However, the question regarding dumping Word to
HTML is a fair one as well...

Josh


From lists at irubin.com  Tue Oct  8 14:57:01 2002
From: lists at irubin.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue Oct  8 14:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl / CGI - User Authentication ...
Message-ID: <003101c26f05$92027770$6401a8c0@irubinmain>

Hello,

I am in the process of developing a CGI application that requires user
authentication. In the past I have developed a simple login screen where I
validated the user and forwarded the request based on the result.

I would like to progress to the next level and pass the authentication to
Apache. I am limited in the sense that mod_perl is not available. Can this
be done without mod_perl? Please keep in mind that the username / password
are stored in a mySQL table?

Any comments are appreciated.

-Kevin






From Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br  Tue Oct  8 15:07:00 2002
From: Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br (Amazon Paulo)
Date: Tue Oct  8 15:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Posting Word Documents Vs. Creating Web Pages (Intr
	anet)
Message-ID: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB0B06AC36@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br>

>The benefit that I find of converting them is that they load faster and
look
>more webby.  The downside is that I have to convert them and reformat them
>which takes time as well as the fact that I have to manage changes to the
>documents whenever they are desired.
>So what do others tend to do?

I had the same situation here in our intranet. Many documents have been
converted to html files, and it had not been a problem until they started to
ask me to change these files.

So we decided to use Word doc files for everything they need. They stay in a
compressed folder in IIS, so they do not waste space. The folder is shared
and the guys who need to edit the files have full access to this folder.
This way, I never have to touch these files and everybody's happy.

The fact we use a intranet means there's almost no difference between
downloading a 50kb doc file and a 5kb html file. No user will complain about
it.

Paulo Guedes


From Gary at star-chaser.com  Tue Oct  8 15:26:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Tue Oct  8 15:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Undefined variable: lastpoll /php
Message-ID: <3DA339C5.7040709@star-chaser.com>

Can an anyone tell me why I am getting this error Undefined variable:
lastpoll It sure looks defined to me. It is PHP code.


if ($lastpoll && $lastpoll == $_POST['id']){ /* Error is for this line*/
echo" YOU have already voted. Please return for the next poll.";
}
else{
setCookie("lastpoll", $_POST['id'], time()+2592000);
}
TIA
Gary




--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From thelist at websapp.com  Tue Oct  8 15:38:00 2002
From: thelist at websapp.com (Daniel Kushner)
Date: Tue Oct  8 15:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Undefined variable: lastpoll /php
In-Reply-To: <3DA339C5.7040709@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <OKEHLLMAFAOHECBMOGEPMEIGDAAA.thelist@websapp.com>

Try:

if (isset($_COOKIE['lastpoll']) && $_COOKIE['lastpoll']== $_POST['id']){
	.....


Regards,
Daniel Kushner
_________________________________________
Need hosting? http://thehostingcompany.us

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 4:02 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Undefined variable: lastpoll /php
>
>
> Can an anyone tell me why I am getting this error Undefined variable:
> lastpoll It sure looks defined to me. It is PHP code.
>
>
> if ($lastpoll && $lastpoll == $_POST['id']){ /* Error is for this line*/
> echo" YOU have already voted. Please return for the next poll.";
> }
> else{
> setCookie("lastpoll", $_POST['id'], time()+2592000);
> }
> TIA
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Bland
> StarChaser Web Architecture
> http://star-chaser.com
> Building Tomorrow's World Today
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From rabbit at poorrabbit.com  Tue Oct  8 16:08:01 2002
From: rabbit at poorrabbit.com (rabbit at poorrabbit.com)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
Message-ID: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>

I'm finally working towards using CSS for my layout instead of
table based layouts, and I've run across something I can't figure out.

According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.

for example:

DIV.foo {       right: 50px;
        top: 10px;
        position: fixed;
        color: black;
        width: 100px;
        }

If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
(at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.

The "HELLO" on the top right of the screen will stay put even if you
scroll - you may have to shrink your window to see this effect.

In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.

I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
checking code.

so much for "coding to standards".

any ideas?

___________________________________________________________________
  Jon Cortmaior | poor rabbit consulting | unix geek | web monkey
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
 who cannot read them."  -- Mark Twain
___________________________________________________________________
        rabbit at poorrabbit.com http://www.poorrabbit.com




From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Tue Oct  8 16:16:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
In-Reply-To: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <B9C8972A.17BE%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Jon,

Works fine in IE 5.1.3 for Mac. FYI.

richard
 --
Richard McFarland <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
206-378-6942

> From: rabbit at poorrabbit.com
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
>
>
> I'm finally working towards using CSS for my layout instead of
> table based layouts, and I've run across something I can't figure out.
>
> According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
> an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
> on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.
>
> for example:
>
> DIV.foo {       right: 50px;
> top: 10px;
> position: fixed;
> color: black;
> width: 100px;
> }
>
> If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
> (at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.
>
> The "HELLO" on the top right of the screen will stay put even if you
> scroll - you may have to shrink your window to see this effect.
>
> In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
> appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
> position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.
>
> I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
> even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
> belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
> to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
> explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
> checking code.
>
> so much for "coding to standards".
>
> any ideas?
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Jon Cortmaior | poor rabbit consulting | unix geek | web monkey
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
> who cannot read them."  -- Mark Twain
> ___________________________________________________________________
> rabbit at poorrabbit.com http://www.poorrabbit.com
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From vodine at direct.ca  Tue Oct  8 16:19:00 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
References: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <012d01c26f10$126abc60$ba8242d8@Virginia1>

----- Original Message -----
From: <rabbit at poorrabbit.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..


> If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
> (at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.
>

IE 6.02 freezes completely and shows nothing when I click on your link.

I don't know if this will help but check out
http://www.scottandrew.com/weblog/articles/dhtml_ns6  for cross-browser W3C
standards.

Virginia
(currently detesting cross-browser testing)




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Oct  8 16:26:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
In-Reply-To: <OE32pr73j6xpZKamj930000d135@hotmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008093941.01ce96a0@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008141132.02fe7d40@baratta.com>

At 12:17 PM 10/8/2002, Adam Slesinger wrote:
>Hi Anthony,
>
>I did just that - created a full database backup with the Enterprise
>Manager.  The client didn't know what to do with it because I created a file
>with no extension.  My fear was that since they never created the DB on
>their server, the Restore option in Enterprise Manager wouldn't display the
>backup to use.  When I did a test restore overhere, you had to select what
>database you wanted to display backups for, and I assumed they wouldn't have
>that database to choose from since it never existed on their end...  what
>are your thoughts on that?

File extensions are arbitrary, first just rename the file with a .bak. Then
via EM create a new DB, highlight it and select restore. Under General Tab
select "from device" (find the back file), then under Options Tab, Change
the "Move to Physical file name" to the new DB file names.

Piece of pie.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Tue Oct  8 16:26:11 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:26:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
References: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <3DA34D48.7080509@star-chaser.com>

rabbit at poorrabbit.com wrote:
> I'm finally working towards using CSS for my layout instead of
> table based layouts, and I've run across something I can't figure out.
>
> According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
> an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
> on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.
>
> for example:
>
> DIV.foo {       right: 50px;
>         top: 10px;
>         position: fixed;
>         color: black;
>         width: 100px;
>         }
>
> If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
> (at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.
>
> The "HELLO" on the top right of the screen will stay put even if you
> scroll - you may have to shrink your window to see this effect.
>
> In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
> appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
> position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.
>
> I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
> even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
> belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
> to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
> explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
> checking code.
>
> so much for "coding to standards".
>

IE windows does not support position:fixed except for backgrounds. You
have to use a Javascript hack to fix it.

HTH
Gary


--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Tue Oct  8 16:28:02 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:28:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
In-Reply-To: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
References: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <20021008213008.GA1478@us-lot.org>

On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 02:07:32PM -0700, rabbit at poorrabbit.com wrote:
> According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
> an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
> on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.

> In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
> appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
> position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.

Internet Explorer for Windows doesn't fully support CSS 2 (its only
a five year old specification, nowhere near enough time for
Microsoft to implement it).

IE Win32 reverts to 'static'

> I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
> even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
> belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
> to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
> explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
> checking code.

I haven't tried any of these, but they might do the job:

* http://www.mark.ac/help/sticky.html
* http://and.doxdesk.com/software/

--
David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.


From vodine at direct.ca  Tue Oct  8 16:32:01 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
References: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <014301c26f11$ccd62a70$ba8242d8@Virginia1>

Whups. Browser problem was not from your link specifically.

Virginia

----- Original Message -----
From: <rabbit at poorrabbit.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..


>
> I'm finally working towards using CSS for my layout instead of
> table based layouts, and I've run across something I can't figure out.
>
> According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
> an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
> on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.
>
> for example:
>
> DIV.foo {       right: 50px;
>         top: 10px;
>         position: fixed;
>         color: black;
>         width: 100px;
>         }
>
> If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
> (at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.
>
> The "HELLO" on the top right of the screen will stay put even if you
> scroll - you may have to shrink your window to see this effect.
>
> In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
> appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
> position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.
>
> I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
> even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
> belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
> to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
> explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
> checking code.
>
> so much for "coding to standards".
>
> any ideas?
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>   Jon Cortmaior | poor rabbit consulting | unix geek | web monkey
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
>  who cannot read them."  -- Mark Twain
> ___________________________________________________________________
>         rabbit at poorrabbit.com http://www.poorrabbit.com
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Oct  8 16:57:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Oct  8 16:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] IIS5: combining to boxen into one.
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF00@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

some of you may remember me asking this question before, however i'm
asking it again because i have yet to get it solved. i think all the
credit for that should go to the periodic high volume on the list
subsequently causing my email to get lost.

i would like to take two boxes and combine them into one. each box
supports one website. we'll call them www.siteA.com and www.siteB.com. i
would like to move www.siteA.com to www.siteB.com 's box.

we use NAT. so...

www.siteA.com has an internal IP address of 10.0.0.5 and...
www.siteB.com has an internal IP address of 10.0.0.3.

what i was told to do (which for some reason didn't work [i blame that
on user error and not bad instruction]) was to follow these steps...

1. shutdown www.siteA.com 's box.
2. add www.siteA.com 's IP address to the Network Properties of the NIC
on www.siteB.com (i imagine that this of course would cause any traffic
for 10.0.0.5 and 10.0.0.3 to be directed to the same NIC.)
3. open IIS and add two host headers to the properties of www.siteB.com
  3a. www.siteB.com
  3b. siteB.com
4. voila. you're done. it should work.


but it doesn't. anything i'm doing wrong? or not waiting long enough? or
should i reboot? i mean, i'm using win2k and they don't usually have a
problem with changing IP addresses even while operating. but maybe this
is different?

i even tried stopping and starting the website, but that didn't do
anything either.


i would really appreciate any help i could get on this.

thanks,
chris.

p.s. are there any good lists like this that are centered on network
administration? i have so many questions that i'd like to ask, but i
just don't have any tips and i don't want people to hate me.


From mbarrett at triad.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 17:00:02 2002
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:00:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
In-Reply-To: <20021008213008.GA1478@us-lot.org>
Message-ID: <B9C8CD66.882C%mbarrett@triad.rr.com>

If you declare the position as absolute. Then re-delcare it as fixed using a
parent child selector, Win IE will honor the absolute postion, and ignore
the fixed  declaration this way you can pop your element on the screen where
you want it...and have it scroll appropriately in compliant browsers

Here's an example from a test I was doing on for my site
<http://www.abouthalf.com/abouthalf_test/> :

div#nav_shadow {
position: absolute;
top: 100px;
left: 12px;
width: 100px;
background-color: #DEDEDE;
border: none;
padding: 0px;
}

/*displays in Mac IE 5, Mozilla, Opera*/
html>body div#nav_shadow {
position:fixed;
}

IE Win ignores the parent child selector so you can create one set of
attributes for IE win ...and then re-declare the 'correct' ones.

--
Michael Barrett
-O^O-
  -

mbarrett at triad.rr.com



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 17:05:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
Message-ID: <F1041ReF0KL222cBmiu000151b2@hotmail.com>



>I guess you're running in system 9... try to rebuild da desktop.
>AFAIK restart and press [command][option] system will look for the key
>press just before the desktop appears...
>
>mosht probablie ze desttop file got corrupted after one too many
>crashes ;-)

But the system is only one week old and has crashed only twice!

Anyway, I'll try your suggestion. Thanks,

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com



From gwostrel at mac.com  Tue Oct  8 17:12:02 2002
From: gwostrel at mac.com (Gregory Wostrel)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:12:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS question..
In-Reply-To: <20021008135710.B79132-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>
Message-ID: <EDC9A930-DB0A-11D6-A9CF-0003936F6BE6@mac.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Well it works fine in IE 5 and NN7 on OSX. Too bad about all those
Windows users....

I have found that IE/Win screws it up for backgrounds as well,
especially if you want to have two background images to line up but to
have one visible only in the <div> it is associated with. For example:
http://www.wostrel.com/pages/thoughts/robert.html

and to David who said:
"Internet Explorer for Windows doesn't fully support CSS 2 (its only
a five year old specification, nowhere near enough time for
Microsoft to implement it)."

That is true unless it is the Mac Business Unit at Microsoft. Mac IE
has supported this nicely since ver5, circa 1999-2000 or so.

Greg Wostrel

gwcreative
http://www.gwcreative.com/
gw at gwcreative.com
Communications and the Art of Simplicity

On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 05:07  PM, rabbit at poorrabbit.com wrote:

>
> I'm finally working towards using CSS for my layout instead of
> table based layouts, and I've run across something I can't figure out.
>
> According to the CSS2 spec, the "position: fixed;" setting will cause
> an element uses that class to stay put, period. If you stick something
> on the top right of the screen, it stays there, even when scrolling.
>
> for example:
>
> DIV.foo {       right: 50px;
>         top: 10px;
>         position: fixed;
>         color: black;
>         width: 100px;
>         }
>
> If you look at: http://www.truthmagnet.com/v2/test.php in MOZILLA
> (at least in v1.1, or in the latest opera) you can see this behavior.
>
> The "HELLO" on the top right of the screen will stay put even if you
> scroll - you may have to shrink your window to see this effect.
>
> In explorer, this completely fails to work. In explorer, the Hello
> appears on the top left, and appears to be behaving as though
> position was set to "relative", which I THINK is the default.
>
> I've tried looking for alternate way of doing this with explorer, or
> even a way of convincing explorer to at least put stuff where it
> belongs, so that even if it doesn't stay put, it at least gets there
> to begin with, such that in mozilla it behaves as I wish, and that in
> explorer it will degrade gracefully - without having to use browser
> checking code.
>
> so much for "coding to standards".
>
> any ideas?
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>   Jon Cortmaior | poor rabbit consulting | unix geek | web monkey
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
>  who cannot read them."  -- Mark Twain
> ___________________________________________________________________
>         rabbit at poorrabbit.com http://www.poorrabbit.com
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

--



From badlanners at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  8 17:14:04 2002
From: badlanners at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:14:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS SQL DB hand over
References: <OF9D2DBDAB.2CD8E80F-ON43256C4C.005B8517@symphony.co.ke>
Message-ID: <OE17Es6X8zRUP9eEp6c0000d641@hotmail.com>

Thanks everyone for your gotchas and reassurance.  The client (with some
help form a consultant) ended up getting the DB up with the backup I
provided them.  The help is much appreciated!

adam aka bread_man
www.thebadlans.net

> If you took a SQL Backup of the database from SQL Server enterprise
manager
> -
> You did the right thing.  You dont need to send the MDF & LDF files if you
> have
> sent the backup to them.


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Oct  8 17:18:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue Oct  8 17:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] IIS5: combining to boxen into one.
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF00@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DA3596D.4070201@webtuitive.com>

Chris W. Parker wrote:

> www.siteA.com has an internal IP address of 10.0.0.5 and...
> www.siteB.com has an internal IP address of 10.0.0.3.
>
> what i was told to do (which for some reason didn't work [i blame that
> on user error and not bad instruction]) was to follow these steps...
>
> 1. shutdown www.siteA.com 's box.
> 2. add www.siteA.com 's IP address to the Network Properties of the NIC
> on www.siteB.com (i imagine that this of course would cause any traffic
> for 10.0.0.5 and 10.0.0.3 to be directed to the same NIC.)
> 3. open IIS and add two host headers to the properties of www.siteB.com
>   3a. www.siteB.com
>   3b. siteB.com
> 4. voila. you're done. it should work.
>
> but it doesn't. anything i'm doing wrong? or not waiting long enough? or
> should i reboot? i mean, i'm using win2k and they don't usually have a
> problem with changing IP addresses even while operating. but maybe this
> is different?

I'd think you would have to reboot for this one, but it's easy to
check.

If you've shut down box A, ping its internal address; if you don't
get a response, reboot box B :-)

FWIW!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
                   ---                      ---
                   ---     dream.   code.   ---





From lists at miinx.com.au  Tue Oct  8 19:25:00 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Tue Oct  8 19:25:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NS 4.05 Page Reloading b/c of Form's
References: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILEEKJDCAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <3DA3776A.9080105@miinx.com.au>

Brian W. Reaves wrote:
> http://www.beachrentalvacations.com/temp/index2.php
>
> Using NS 4.05 on WIN2K, this page loads and reloads unless I remove one of
> the forms. Can you only have one form on a page for NS 4.05? I am using
> different names for each form.

ns4.x will hang unless you stick "return true" at the end of any event
handlers

e.g. you've got onClick="(searchForm.city.value='')" - change this to:
onClick="(searchForm.city.value=''); return true;"

don't forget the body.onresize event too

hth
karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From boardman at manoverboard.com  Tue Oct  8 20:34:03 2002
From: boardman at manoverboard.com (Andrew Boardman)
Date: Tue Oct  8 20:34:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Browser bug or table help
In-Reply-To: <3DA0534B.2020502@brucew.com>
Message-ID: <51E5AD66-DB27-11D6-8A46-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Okay, I've taken everyone's advice and the table still breaks on most
of the subpages (with longer text content) under the BOOK nav -- but
only in Netscape Win XP and 7.0 OS X and IE 5.2 OS X.  I'd appreciate
any and all suggestions!  Thank you very much!

http://www.spiritualactivist.org

Andrew Boardman.


On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 11:14  AM, Bruce Wilbur wrote:

> Andrew Boardman wrote:
>
>> I created a small Web log for a friend at
>> http://www.spiritualactivist.org and for some reason the pages shift
>> about 5 px depending on the contents, probably because of the table.
>>
> It might be helpful to selectively add table borders for diagnostic
> purposes.
>
> I see two places where I'd start troubleshooting.  In the leftmost and
> center column nested tables on all pages, the cellpadding attribute
> isn't set.  Perhaps a browser default cell padding is forcing the a
> cell
> wider somewhere.  On the home page, looking at the left column, the
> book
> graphic is set the same width as the column.  If the browser is adding
> some padding by default, this would be the culprit.
>
> In the rightmost column, but *only* on the home page, I see cellspacing
> set to 7.  This may also be affecting the homepage's width.
>
> Your mileage may vary...
>
> HTH!
> B
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

Andrew Boardman.
MANOVERBOARD.
http://www.manoverboard.com
T 718 809-2085
F 718 504-4070
--



From lists at miinx.com.au  Tue Oct  8 21:05:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Tue Oct  8 21:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Browser bug or table help
References: <51E5AD66-DB27-11D6-8A46-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>
Message-ID: <3DA38EDA.2050801@miinx.com.au>

Andrew Boardman wrote:
> Okay, I've taken everyone's advice and the table still breaks on most
> of the subpages (with longer text content) under the BOOK nav -- but
> only in Netscape Win XP and 7.0 OS X and IE 5.2 OS X.  I'd appreciate
> any and all suggestions!  Thank you very much!

ah, I was looking at the wrong thing when I posted last night, sorry.

However, you've said the answer here yourself - the pages with longer
content are the problem, and that's because those pages require a
scrollbar and it's this that's throwing your table out.

The center of the page is slightly different when there's a scrollbar
involved, and you've got your table set to align center by the div.

To see what I mean - check out those book subpages at 800x600 - they all
then require a scrollbar, and the table doesn't move bwn them.

Easiest solution is to force a scrollbar on all pages - stick a whole
lotta <p>&nbsp</p>'s at the bottom of short-content pages.

hth
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From cvos at netpaths.net  Tue Oct  8 21:08:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Tue Oct  8 21:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] UK Domain name extension
Message-ID: <B9C8DD55.7B73%cvos@netpaths.net>

Where can I find domain name info on this name extension uk.com

The domain in question is

http://1stlondon.uk.com



Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From davemiller at tennishockey.com  Tue Oct  8 22:08:01 2002
From: davemiller at tennishockey.com (davemiller at tennishockey.com)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] text wrap around image
Message-ID: <116140-22002103925948406@tennishockey.com>

Hey everyone, this is my first post!

Anyhoo, I'm working on a website where I need to have an image in the
middle and on the right of a large blob of text (a large article) coming
from a database.  The text will wrap around the image.

It'd be easy if the text were not coming from the database.  I could just
use tables or css.  Any ideas?

Dave





From lists at miinx.com.au  Tue Oct  8 22:15:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] UK Domain name extension
References: <B9C8DD55.7B73%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <3DA39F3F.7040807@miinx.com.au>

Cayley Vos wrote:
> Where can I find domain name info on this name extension uk.com
>
> The domain in question is
>
> http://1stlondon.uk.com

this is actually a registered domain "uk.com" - no domain extension here.

It's registered through NetSol/Verisign (I just checked it at
http://www.whoisquery.com/ and was told that)

hth
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From russgri at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct  8 22:30:01 2002
From: russgri at bellsouth.net (Russell Griechen)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Searching for a multi-lingual CMS written in PHP or PERL
References: <007301c26ef2$1fd24490$0100a8c0@TSJERNOCHILL> <010801c26ef3$c12d8790$4603fea9@nparrot>
Message-ID: <012401c26f00$1a4e08c0$af74fea9@default>

Nicole P" <nparrot at pair.com>

> I've had two sites running French and English.
> http://www.501st.ca
> http://www.aqed.qc.ca (not yet launched)

Wow! www.501st.ca  is a neat little site.
I am thinking about using PostNuke for a site.
What build and module/sections did you use?
I also need the multi-language capability.

Russell Griechen
russgri at bellsouth.net



From nparrot at pair.com  Tue Oct  8 22:51:02 2002
From: nparrot at pair.com (Nicole P)
Date: Tue Oct  8 22:51:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Searching for a multi-lingual CMS written in PHP or PERL
References: <007301c26ef2$1fd24490$0100a8c0@TSJERNOCHILL> <010801c26ef3$c12d8790$4603fea9@nparrot> <012401c26f00$1a4e08c0$af74fea9@default>
Message-ID: <016b01c26f47$08eb8890$4603fea9@nparrot>

Thanks. Personally, I prefer the aqed site, but 501st.ca is more fun .. ;-)
It's PostNuke 1.7.4 for both. 501st.ca is pretty PostNuke out much out of
the box, with a calendar added.

AQED has the calendar and phpBB added, and will have a photo gallery soon.

I also manage http://www.bikerscout.net which has the photo gallery already
up and running, but it's English only
I installed it for another site that's not launched yet, which's been paired
down, it only has the news posting capabilities.

Nicole
who really likes getting dynamic sites up in less than a day. ;)

From: "Russell Griechen" <russgri at bellsouth.net>
> > I've had two sites running French and English.
> > http://www.501st.ca
> > http://www.aqed.qc.ca (not yet launched)
>
> Wow! www.501st.ca  is a neat little site.
> I am thinking about using PostNuke for a site.
> What build and module/sections did you use?
> I also need the multi-language capability.




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Wed Oct  9 00:11:01 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Wed Oct  9 00:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 08-OCT-02
Message-ID: <200210090510.g995A1GN004006@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 08-OCT-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

News: Interview with Monty Widenius (Author: MattWade)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/43112/index.html

Submit your questions for Monty Widenius, designer and lead
programmer of MySQL.


Code: Using setInterval() to Make a JavaScript Listener (Author: pixelmech)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/36035/index.html

If you have ever been frustrated by the need to be able to
periodically check a condition - and then act upon, then you need a
listener! And no, setTimeout is NOT the answer.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From adam at adamschwenk.com  Wed Oct  9 00:40:01 2002
From: adam at adamschwenk.com (Adam Schwenk)
Date: Wed Oct  9 00:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS/DHTML please help
Message-ID: <000001c26f56$33023b10$71fb8218@adam>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hey folks,

I'm having *serious* problems trying to get this dhtml script to work
cross browser.  The issue is this.  I'm using the scrollbar script I
found at dhtmlcentral.com.  Now, I want to be able to use it relative on
the site, as the site needs to be centered on the page.  The site looks
GREAT in IE, but when you load it up in Netscape, it falls apart.
Apparently, Nutscrape wants the text to be place on the page regardless
if it's being clipped in the CSS.  So what I'm getting is the images
being pushed way down below the page.  Could someone, anyone, please
give me some advice?  I'm really desperate here.  I've been working on
this thing forever now and it's just been a HUGE headache.  I really
don't care about supporting Netscape 4 at this point...I just want it to
work cross browser from NS/IE 5 and up.  Thank you so much for any help
anyone can provide.


adam


--



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Wed Oct  9 00:48:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Oct  9 00:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS/DHTML please help
References: <000001c26f56$33023b10$71fb8218@adam>
Message-ID: <003001c26f57$5beb9980$0100a8c0@OFFICE>

url?







From vodine at direct.ca  Wed Oct  9 02:00:01 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Wed Oct  9 02:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS/DHTML please help
References: <000001c26f56$33023b10$71fb8218@adam>
Message-ID: <009901c26f61$431e3840$818242d8@Virginia1>

Whoa, that is TOO weird. I am fighting with EXACTLY the same thing at the
moment. Searching for answers is how I found this list.

We do need a URL from you. I think I found a way to make it work, so if I
could see where your problem is, I'd like to help.

Virginia
see screwy site at www.spaofthenorth.com  ( in Netscape, of course.)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Schwenk" <adam at adamschwenk.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:39 PM
Subject: [thelist] CSS/DHTML please help


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Hey folks,
>
> I'm having *serious* problems trying to get this dhtml script to work
> cross browser.  The issue is this.  I'm using the scrollbar script I
> found at dhtmlcentral.com.  Now, I want to be able to use it relative on
> the site, as the site needs to be centered on the page.  The site looks
> GREAT in IE, but when you load it up in Netscape, it falls apart.
> Apparently, Nutscrape wants the text to be place on the page regardless
> if it's being clipped in the CSS.  So what I'm getting is the images
> being pushed way down below the page.  Could someone, anyone, please
> give me some advice?  I'm really desperate here.  I've been working on
> this thing forever now and it's just been a HUGE headache.  I really
> don't care about supporting Netscape 4 at this point...I just want it to
> work cross browser from NS/IE 5 and up.  Thank you so much for any help
> anyone can provide.
>
>
> adam
>
>
> --
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Oct  9 02:25:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed Oct  9 02:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shortcuts for hyperlinks
Message-ID: <MWMail.ppmqnchm@host.none>

>as to your question, begin your research here:
>
>altKey:
>http://msdn.microsoft.
>com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/altkey.asp
>
>ctrlKey:
>http://msdn.microsoft.
>com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/ctrlkey.asp
>
>shiftKey:
>http://msdn.microsoft.
>com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/shiftkey.asp

I almost did it except for the fact that the Alt Key is not detected...
Ctrl-X and Shift+X and Ctrl+Shift+X do work but tha Alt doesn't,
despite tha sam code... here is waht I am using:

function keys(){
	if(event.ctrlKey && event.shiftKey){
		if(event.keyCode == 16) add_tag('p');
		if(event.keyCode == 19) add_tag('strong');
		if(event.keyCode == 1) insert_link();
		return false;
	}
	return;
}

document.onkeypress = keys

if I use event.altKey in the place of the event.shiftKey it doesn't
work...

Am I missing something?

nmk



From lists at miinx.com.au  Wed Oct  9 02:37:00 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Wed Oct  9 02:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] text wrap around image
References: <116140-22002103925948406@tennishockey.com>
Message-ID: <3DA3DCA5.2010601@miinx.com.au>

davemiller at tennishockey.com wrote:
 > Hey everyone, this is my first post!

Hi Dave, welcome  :)

 > Anyhoo, I'm working on a website where I need to have an image in the
 >  middle and on the right of a large blob of text (a large article)
 > coming from a database.  The text will wrap around the image.
 >
 > It'd be easy if the text were not coming from the database.  I could
 > just use tables or css.  Any ideas?

if I understand correctly, your problem is that you're not sure how to
get the image to be in the middle of the article text, cos the text
could be of any length..  is that correct?

maybe you could get the length of the article, calculate approx.
halfway, then stick your image there?  how you do that will depend on
the language you're using - which is..?

for the image, use the align attribute, and pad it using the hspace &
vspace attrib's:
<img src="yourimg.gif" align="right" hspace="20" vspace="20">

is that what you're after?

hth,
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From roblgs at cscoms.com  Wed Oct  9 02:43:01 2002
From: roblgs at cscoms.com (Rob Schumann)
Date: Wed Oct  9 02:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XHTML & Character entities
In-Reply-To: <B9C8CD66.882C%mbarrett@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <r01050300-0910-3C29F100DB9511D6962DFAD999E9D345@[192.168.1.9]>

Hi,

This is quick... and sorry if I'm just being dense when it comes to understanding the guide to "XML well formedness" at W3C, but I cannot make head or tail of it...

Could anyone shed light on why the use of

&#147; and &#148; for left and right double quotes produces the error in HTML validation, that error being "reference to a non-SGML character"?

I'm validating against XHTML 1.0 Transitional and the character set is ISO-8859-1

What is the solution to achieving validation, yet using left and right curly double quotes

TIA

Rob


From seyon at delime.com  Wed Oct  9 03:22:01 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XHTML & Character entities
In-Reply-To: <r01050300-0910-3C29F100DB9511D6962DFAD999E9D345@[192.168.1
 .9]>
References: <B9C8CD66.882C%mbarrett@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021009041811.027a6730@mail.delime.com>

Message from Rob Schumann (10/9/2002 02:41 PM)
>Hi,
>
>This is quick... and sorry if I'm just being dense when it comes to
>understanding the guide to "XML well formedness" at W3C, but I cannot make
>head or tail of it...
>
>Could anyone shed light on why the use of
>
>&#147; and &#148; for left and right double quotes produces the error in
>HTML validation, that error being "reference to a non-SGML character"?

&#8220; and &#8221;

One of our list members has a comprehensive article at
http://roselli.org/adrian/articles/character_charts.asp

-m


From alan.wood at context.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 03:27:01 2002
From: alan.wood at context.co.uk (Alan Wood)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XHTML & Character entities
Message-ID: <11A8F53414D6D211820B0000E8E43068AFD59A@EXCHANGE>

Rob Schuman wrote:

> This is quick... and sorry if I'm just being dense when it comes to
> understanding the guide to "XML well formedness" at W3C, but I cannot make
> head or tail of it...
>
> Could anyone shed light on why the use of
>
> &#147; and &#148; for left and right double quotes produces the error in
> HTML validation, that error being "reference to a non-SGML character"?
>
Rob

147 and 148 are reserved for control codes in Unicode and in ISO-8859-1.

You need to use 8220 and 8221 instead.

Alan Wood
http://www.alanwood.net (Unicode, special characters, pesticide names)



From roblgs at cscoms.com  Wed Oct  9 03:38:01 2002
From: roblgs at cscoms.com (Rob Schumann)
Date: Wed Oct  9 03:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XHTML & Character entities
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20021009041811.027a6730@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <r01050300-0910-05F06F80DB9D11D6962DFAD999E9D345@[192.168.1.9]>

Thank you Marc & Alan... and anyone else with whom this email crosses in transit...

On 09-10-2002 Marc Seyon wrote:

 > &#8220; and &#8221;

As often happens I'd also answered my own question within a few minutes of sending the request...

seems now that also the named references will work

&ldquo; and &rdquo;

here's some other reference lists...

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/sgml/entities.html
http://www.tiffanybbrown.com/referencedesk/htmlentities.php

Thanks again...

Rob


From nadeem at essex.ac.uk  Wed Oct  9 06:17:01 2002
From: nadeem at essex.ac.uk (Ahmad, N)
Date: Wed Oct  9 06:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] UK Domain name extension
Message-ID: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DB6A@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>

Cayley>


Where can I find domain name info on this name extension uk.com

The domain in question is

http://1stlondon.uk.com

Nadeem> It's pseudo domain service run by CentralNic

whois.centralnic.net]

Domain Name: 1STLONDON.UK.COM

  Registrant: M I DEBS

  Administrative Contact:
    M I Debbs (C27955)  debs at debs.cc
    M I DEBS
    22-28 Shepherd Street
    W1J 7JH
    UK
    Tel. 020 7491 0000

  Technical Contact:
    M I Debbs (C27955)  debs at debs.cc
    M I DEBS
    22-28 Shepherd Street
    W1J 7JH
    UK
    Tel. 020 7491 0000

  Billing Contact:
    Andrew Porter (C26274)  support at adventinternet.co.uk
    Advent Internet
    17 Selwyn Road
    New Malden
    Surrey
    KT3 5AV
    UK
    Tel. 0208 8942 0382
    Fax 0208 942 3669

  Record created on: 01 March 2001
  Record expires on: 01 March 2003
  Status: Live

  Domain servers in listed order:

  NS1.SOFTPROG.NET                    195.99.160.4
  NS0.SOFTPROG.NET                    195.99.160.3

--
This whois service is provided by CentralNic Ltd and only contains
information
pertaining to Internet domain names we have registered for our customers. By
using this service you are agreeing (1) not to use any information presented
here for any purpose other than determining ownership of domain names (2)
not
to store or reproduce this data in any way. CentralNic Ltd -
www.centralnic.com


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 06:44:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 06:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <r01050300-0910-05F06F80DB9D11D6962DFAD999E9D345@[192.168.1.9]>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Hi Guys

This one is something I will be working on for the next few weeks so all the
advice I can get will be absolutely brilliant and I promise to give a tip :)

I have a client who is on a hosting server that does not allow bulk mail!  What
they mean by this I am not exactly sure.  I presume they mean I cant use a
mailinglist script such as a php mailing program.
The setup I have is this.  When a new customer places an order the visitor's
email is entered into a MySQL table, if they tick the box please subscribe me.

The php script then sends a newsletter out by accessing the MySQL DB.

So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB.  But want I now need to
do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local machine, hence
avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings compnies smtp!  Does this make
sense and if so any suggestions, apart from move hosting company!  Although as
they have been so utterly useless in their support department this may well be
the way forward!

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From thelist at brucew.com  Wed Oct  9 07:42:01 2002
From: thelist at brucew.com (Bruce Wilbur)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
References: <B9C88041.1A1C8%janice@discoverysystems.com>
Message-ID: <3DA41B73.8030601@brucew.com>

janice wrote:

>so perhaps you could take a look at the following:
>
>http://averra.com/pages/about.htm
>
>I haven't looked at the site on AOL on Windows yet, but on v5 on the Mac,
>does not behave well at all! Could someone let me know if this same
>phenomenon is happening on Windows?
>
>Does anyone have a solution for this issue???
>
>
I wrestled with that same beastie last month.  As it turns out, it's not
the fault of AOL per se, but rather, the bastard child of Jobs and
Gates, IE 4.5 for the Mac.  Changing visibility on my client's pages
resulted in IE 4.5 (and by extension, AOL on Macs with it) completely
eliminating the upper half of the page.

Altering some code helped--the upper part of the page came back, is
readable and usable, but the layout is all messed up.  I was unable to
achieve a technical solution.

After consulting the site logs for the past three months, I showed the
client that in an average of 5,000 unique IPs per month (not the busiest
of sites, to be sure), only one visitor other than the client himself,
used IE 4.5 for the Mac.  After demonstrating on his secretary's Mac,
(AOL5 Mac and IE5 Mac), I did not correct his logic when he said, "One
in 15,000?  I guess I can live with that."

And we upgraded his browser. (Note: AOL5 is still newest supported
version on certain older versions of MacOS.)

A few days later he told me, "No wonder everything always looked weird
when I went online at the office. I thought it was my Mac."

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but it worked for my client,
and it suits me.

Yours,
B



From bking at impact-technologies.com  Wed Oct  9 07:44:00 2002
From: bking at impact-technologies.com (Brian W King)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act    pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491372F24B5@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B784913723B6EE@ITG_B02>

>I believe the ADA says that companies above 15 employees  must follow the
>law's mandates.  I doubt your personal site qualifies.

I think you missed the point on the article.  It states that as the law
currently is written, there is not statute.  There is no law that defines
how websites are to be displayed or coded.  Until one of these cases
actually makes it through the court system, there probably won't be one
either.

I don't believe that it is a given that the ADA guidelines or Title III will
win here.  There are many cases where the guidelines have been rewritten or
simply canned because they were found to be harmful to others or simply too
stringent to be economically feasible.  One example would be in the
Commercial Fire Alarm industry.  The initial regulations were such that
visual fire alarm signals had to be of a specific high intensity strobe at a
specific flash rate.  This new regulation caused many people to have
epileptic seizures and was subsequently reduced/changed to a more reasonable
level.   The audible fire alarms were to be of a decibel rating that was so
high, (112 db at 15 feet in some cases), that it was causing permanent
hearing damage in those with previously normal hearing.   That regulation
was also backed off.

In short, even if the regulation directly addressed the coding and
compliance of web pages, (which it doesn't), it isn't necessarily going to
stand up to a court test.


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Bill Mason
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 12:07 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
pertain to Internet Content?

At 08:51 PM 10/07/2002, Benjamin wrote:
>I've read the article but didn't see too much mention about where this
>starts and stops in regards to site/ownership size.  It's one thing for the
>government to have to adhere to something like this but having legislation
>mandating that I make my personal site "visible" to a blind person is too
>much (and my grandmother was blind prior to her death).

I believe the ADA says that companies above 15 employees  must follow the
law's mandates.  I doubt your personal site qualifies.

>Especially in this case it seems ridiculous since there are viable
>alternative modes of gaining the same information that are equally viable,
>such as using a telephone and calling the airlines.

Many airlines offer lower Internet-only fares that you would be preventing
the disabled from having in this case.

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/





From dan at danromanchik.com  Wed Oct  9 07:47:02 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:47:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <049001c26f91$e85104c0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

How about generating a mailig list from your database and then using a
service like SparkList? Or, if you don't want to pay anything, you could
even use Yahoo Groups.

I have a similar problem right now. I may be getting a contract to deliver
e-mail newsletters for a group of magazines. What I was thinking of doing
for this client is developing a set of scripts that would act as a front end
for SparkList (or some other such service). These scripts would allow
readers to subscribe and unsubscribe from the free newsletters as well as
provide an interface for the magazine's personnel to add and delete readers
from the paid newsletter mailing lists.

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


> Hi Guys
>
> This one is something I will be working on for the next few weeks so all
the
> advice I can get will be absolutely brilliant and I promise to give a tip
:)
>
> I have a client who is on a hosting server that does not allow bulk mail!
What
> they mean by this I am not exactly sure.  I presume they mean I cant use a
> mailinglist script such as a php mailing program.
> The setup I have is this.  When a new customer places an order the
visitor's
> email is entered into a MySQL table, if they tick the box please subscribe
me.
>
> The php script then sends a newsletter out by accessing the MySQL DB.
>
> So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB.  But want I now
need to
> do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local machine, hence
> avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings compnies smtp!  Does this
make
> sense and if so any suggestions, apart from move hosting company!
Although as
> they have been so utterly useless in their support department this may
well be
> the way forward!
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From futureweb at macmail.com  Wed Oct  9 07:51:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (futureweb)
Date: Wed Oct  9 07:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
In-Reply-To: <3DA41B73.8030601@brucew.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9E41C.8%futureweb@macmail.com>

On 9/10/02 2:05 pm, "Bruce Wilbur" <thelist at brucew.com> wrote:

> janice wrote:
>
>> so perhaps you could take a look at the following:
>>
>> http://averra.com/pages/about.htm
>>
>> I haven't looked at the site on AOL on Windows yet, but on v5 on the Mac,
>> does not behave well at all! Could someone let me know if this same
>> phenomenon is happening on Windows?
>>
>> Does anyone have a solution for this issue???
>>
>>
> I wrestled with that same beastie last month.  As it turns out, it's not
> the fault of AOL per se, but rather, the bastard child of Jobs and
> Gates, IE 4.5 for the Mac.  Changing visibility on my client's pages
> resulted in IE 4.5 (and by extension, AOL on Macs with it) completely
> eliminating the upper half of the page.
>
> Altering some code helped--the upper part of the page came back, is
> readable and usable, but the layout is all messed up.  I was unable to
> achieve a technical solution.
>
> After consulting the site logs for the past three months, I showed the
> client that in an average of 5,000 unique IPs per month (not the busiest
> of sites, to be sure), only one visitor other than the client himself,
> used IE 4.5 for the Mac.  After demonstrating on his secretary's Mac,
> (AOL5 Mac and IE5 Mac), I did not correct his logic when he said, "One
> in 15,000?  I guess I can live with that."
>
> And we upgraded his browser. (Note: AOL5 is still newest supported
> version on certain older versions of MacOS.)
>
> A few days later he told me, "No wonder everything always looked weird
> when I went online at the office. I thought it was my Mac."
>
> Probably not the answer you're looking for, but it worked for my client,
> and it suits me.
>
> Yours,
> B

I would have to agree that ie 4.5 on mac is a terrible browser, every mac
user I know upgraded just because so many sites do not work properly or even
work at all.

Ben




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 08:00:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <049001c26f91$e85104c0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECHDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I really wanted to keep everything in-house so.  The mailing list has to be
generated anyway so its just insertng the recipients into a local databse which
I have setup and running my script locally through my local smtp... just seems a
bit long winded, but I guess this is the only way to do it.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dan Romanchik
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 01:47
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


How about generating a mailig list from your database and then using a
service like SparkList? Or, if you don't want to pay anything, you could
even use Yahoo Groups.

I have a similar problem right now. I may be getting a contract to deliver
e-mail newsletters for a group of magazines. What I was thinking of doing
for this client is developing a set of scripts that would act as a front end
for SparkList (or some other such service). These scripts would allow
readers to subscribe and unsubscribe from the free newsletters as well as
provide an interface for the magazine's personnel to add and delete readers
from the paid newsletter mailing lists.

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


> Hi Guys
>
> This one is something I will be working on for the next few weeks so all
the
> advice I can get will be absolutely brilliant and I promise to give a tip
:)
>
> I have a client who is on a hosting server that does not allow bulk mail!
What
> they mean by this I am not exactly sure.  I presume they mean I cant use a
> mailinglist script such as a php mailing program.
> The setup I have is this.  When a new customer places an order the
visitor's
> email is entered into a MySQL table, if they tick the box please subscribe
me.
>
> The php script then sends a newsletter out by accessing the MySQL DB.
>
> So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB.  But want I now
need to
> do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local machine, hence
> avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings compnies smtp!  Does this
make
> sense and if so any suggestions, apart from move hosting company!
Although as
> they have been so utterly useless in their support department this may
well be
> the way forward!
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From freaek at idl.net.au  Wed Oct  9 08:26:01 2002
From: freaek at idl.net.au (Pete Goldsmith)
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200210091228.g99CS3t28739@mail019.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Could you not just connect to the db on the host from your machine, pull the list of users and send the mail out from your box?

I guess even going one more step of dumping the email addresses to a txt file or something on the host machine, then moving the file to your machine, then manipulating them from there.

direct connect mayhap be less involved, but more bandwidth usage I suppose.
--
Pete Goldsmith, 09/10/2002


On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:47:01 +0100, Andrew Maynes wrote:

>So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB. ?But want I now need to
>do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local machine, hence
>avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings compnies smtp! ?



From list01 at theparagon.org  Wed Oct  9 08:31:02 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:31:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
Message-ID: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>


It's not finished yet but if you go to
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/classifieds/ you can get the basic idea
of what's going on.

Every time I open Netscape 4.6 and go to the page it clamps up and closes
Netscape.

Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.

So you know - I'm on a Mac.


-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 08:41:03 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:41:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] css browser oddity part 2
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECHDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGECJDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Hi Guys could I get a bit of feed back for how this looks in different browsers
please.

http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_indx.html

Thank you
Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 08:41:17 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:41:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <200210091228.g99CS3t28739@mail019.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIECJDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

<snip>Could you not just connect to the db on the host from your machine,
pull the list of users and send the mail out from your box?
</snip>
 could you just expand on this?  Do you mean a direct connection form DB to DB
via odbc?

would be intersting to learn more if this is the case

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Oct  9 08:42:01 2002
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 08:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Microsoft CM outselling all other CM vendors
Message-ID: <OF1F546D7F.B3C18F5F-ON80256C4D.004B23EF@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Microsoft Tackles Enterprise Content Management
by Tony Kontzer, InformationWeek, 10/07/02, 5:14 p.m. ET
http://www.commweb.com/article/IWK20021007S0006

Microsoft unveils a new version of its content-management server this week,

and analysts say the update establishes the vendor as a viable alternative
for large business deployments. Microsoft got into the content-management
market with its April 2001 acquisition of NCompass Labs, and it's been
viewed as a small-business niche player since. Microsoft is out to change
that perception with the new release. "This is really the version where we
rebuilt the underlying architecture to be a true Microsoft product," says
Chris Ramsey, lead product manager of Content Management Server.
Three areas of improvement in Content Management Server 2002 are designed
to
attract IT buyers in large companies: new productivity tools such as
integration that let Word documents be published directly to the
content-management system; improved application development that makes it
easier to build custom features and templates; and better use of XML and
Web-services standards for simpler integration with heterogeneous computing

environments.

Analysts expect the enhancements to pay off. Already, Microsoft has been
making its mark in the content-management arena by winning about 100 deals
per quarter, or two to three times as many as each of the market leaders,
Documentum, Interwoven, and Vignette, says Forrester Research analyst Nick
Wilkoff. The improvements, combined with Microsoft's pricing and
ease-of-deployment, should prove attractive to established Microsoft shops,

he adds. "If there's any bias toward Microsoft in your company, you'll
definitely want to have them on the shortlist for content management," he
says.

AMR Research analyst Louis Columbus says Microsoft also is starting to show

off its superior Web-services technology, which allows content-management
functionality to be exposed through other applications--a key consideration

for companies looking to serve up applications over business portals. Adds
Columbus, "They've moved into the mainstream of enterprise content
management with this release."

--------------------- End of message text --------------------

PLEASE NOTE THAT IBM recently completed its acquisition of
PricewaterhouseCoopers' global management consulting and information
technology services business, PwC Consulting.  As a result, PwC Consulting
is no longer a part of the PricewaterhouseCoopers network of firms, and is
now a part of the IBM Global Services business unit.  Accordingly, all
references to PwC Consulting or PwCC in this document should be deemed to
be references to IBM Global Services.

IBM (including IBM Global Services) and PricewaterhouseCoopers are not the
same organisation, and neither governs or is affiliated with the other, or
any
affiliate, subsidiary or division of the other.  The sender is neither a
partner in,
nor employee of PricewaterhouseCoopers and is now an employee of, and
acting for, IBM.
_________________________________________________________________





From mark at markgroen.com  Wed Oct  9 09:24:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAECEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <r01050300-0910-05F06F80DB9D11D6962DFAD999E9D345@[192.168.1.9]>
Message-ID: <3DA3D9BA.14375.2F776F2@localhost>

On October 09, 2002 at 12:47, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB.  But want I now
> need to do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local
> machine, hence avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings
> compnies smtp!

After retrieving the email addresses/info, you can turn your local
machine into an smtp server using PostCast:  http://www.postcast.com/
It's not free, but then then again it does everything you want it to, and
how much is your time worth?


Cheers,

	Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mark at markgroen.com
604-780-6917


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 09:28:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <3DA3D9BA.14375.2F776F2@localhost>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKECNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I do have postcast running this was the plan!  I was wondering whether it is the
way forward?  Have I overlooked anything etc etc

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Groen
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 03:25
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


On October 09, 2002 at 12:47, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> So the plan is to still run the subscribe into the DB.  But want I now
> need to do is retrieve all the emails and send them from my local
> machine, hence avoiding sending bulk mail through the hostings
> compnies smtp!

After retrieving the email addresses/info, you can turn your local
machine into an smtp server using PostCast:  http://www.postcast.com/
It's not free, but then then again it does everything you want it to, and
how much is your time worth?


Cheers,

	Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mark at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From gwostrel at mac.com  Wed Oct  9 09:29:01 2002
From: gwostrel at mac.com (Gregory Wostrel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <5B99002C-DB93-11D6-99A2-0003936F6BE6@mac.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hey Aaron,
Pretty weird stuff.
I am glad you are on a Mac, as well you should be! :-)
I tested it and had the same results on NN 4.7 on both platforms.

4.7 Mac (OS9.2)- instant quit
4.7 Win98 - started to load the page and then a warning about an
illegal operation

IE 4, 4.5, 5.0 Mac OS9 no trouble. and, I have to point out, 4.0
rendered the style sheet fine except for the fullpage Navigation bar.
It was only as big as the word "navigation". Not bad for a browser that
came out in what, 97? (If only the rest of MS was turning out a quality
product the way the Mac team at MS has been....)


IE 5.2 and NN7 OSX 10.2 no problem at all.

IE 5 Win98 was fine, too.

What are the latest stats on the usage of NN 4.7? Can't we just forget
about the stupid piece of crap? Plus if it happens on a Mac running
4.7,  how big of an audience can that be? Don't get me wrong, I am a
passionate Mac user (since 89) But even among the Mac users I know the
only ones using NN4.7 are web developers ruining their days testing
pages on it. (like me). Similarly, how many PC users are running it? I
don't know a single one except again, web developers. So maybe it is
safe to ignore it.

Anyone else?

Greg Wostrel

gwcreative
http://www.gwcreative.com/
gw at gwcreative.com
Communications and the Art of Simplicity

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 09:31  AM, { schaapy } wrote:

>
>
> It's not finished yet but if you go to
> http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/classifieds/ you can get the
> basic idea
> of what's going on.
>
> Every time I open Netscape 4.6 and go to the page it clamps up and
> closes
> Netscape.
>
> Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.
>
> So you know - I'm on a Mac.
>
>
> -----------------
> Aaron Schaap
> www.theparagon.org
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

--



From jacborg at mac.com  Wed Oct  9 09:38:01 2002
From: jacborg at mac.com (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <A6988054-DB94-11D6-8375-000502A39AB6@mac.com>

i had the same  problem with style="" you don't have any, so maybe it's
the whole style block. Try to link it instead and see what happens...

hth

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 03:31 PM, { schaapy } wrote:

> Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.



From mark at markgroen.com  Wed Oct  9 09:48:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed Oct  9 09:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKECNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <3DA3D9BA.14375.2F776F2@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DA3DF43.2768.30D174E@localhost>

On October 09, 2002 at 15:30, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> I do have postcast running this was the plan!  I was wondering whether
> it is the way forward?  Have I overlooked anything etc etc
>
> Andrew

This page gets you going on using your web forms with Post Cast:
http://www.postcast.com/html/help/ExtractingDataFromWebForms.htm




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 10:28:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 10:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <3DA3DF43.2768.30D174E@localhost>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEDDDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

is this another topic altogether or have I missed a few emails?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Groen
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 03:48
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


On October 09, 2002 at 15:30, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> I do have postcast running this was the plan!  I was wondering whether
> it is the way forward?  Have I overlooked anything etc etc
>
> Andrew

This page gets you going on using your web forms with Post Cast:
http://www.postcast.com/html/help/ExtractingDataFromWebForms.htm


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From thelist at brucew.com  Wed Oct  9 11:03:01 2002
From: thelist at brucew.com (Bruce Wilbur)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
References: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <3DA452EB.1050201@brucew.com>

{ schaapy } wrote:

>It's not finished yet but if you go to
>http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/classifieds/ you can get the basic idea
>of what's going on.
>
>Every time I open Netscape 4.6 and go to the page it clamps up and closes
>Netscape.
>
>Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.
>
It's generally something in the CSS.  What catches my eye first is
#whatshot strong.  I don't recall where spaces and underscores are
allowed in id and class names, so I avoid them.

Yours,
B

>
>




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 11:04:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <3DA3DF43.2768.30D174E@localhost>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEDGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

PostCast is different to PostCast Server apologies.  Is this really the way
forward though?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Groen
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 03:48
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp


On October 09, 2002 at 15:30, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> I do have postcast running this was the plan!  I was wondering whether
> it is the way forward?  Have I overlooked anything etc etc
>
> Andrew

This page gets you going on using your web forms with Post Cast:
http://www.postcast.com/html/help/ExtractingDataFromWebForms.htm


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 11:10:00 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <F111ml2w6TsTFfZcMIJ0000850b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Hello, all.

I recently developed a site for a restaurant:

http://www.nellsrestaurant.com

The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
forever to update frequently-changing data.

I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there is no
budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has been
made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how to
get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's done.
Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor but
that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.

I've also run across a couple of web-based content editors (WebEdit and
editace, for example). Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--





From mark at markgroen.com  Wed Oct  9 11:15:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEDGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <3DA3DF43.2768.30D174E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DA3F3AB.26727.35CD013@localhost>

On October 09, 2002 at 17:06, Andrew Maynes wrote:

> PostCast is different to PostCast Server apologies.  Is this really
> the way forward though?
>
> Andrew

Your milage may vary, but IIRC this software has been recommended
before. I've installed the trial version and it worked very well for me, and
plan to use it in the near future for two sites. Anyone else have
good/bad experiences with http://www.postcast.com ? It is a few bucks,
and would be nice to get some other feedback...

Cheers,

	Mark


From list01 at theparagon.org  Wed Oct  9 11:20:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <3DA452EB.1050201@brucew.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9CF3E.8D1%list01@theparagon.org>

> It's generally something in the CSS.  What catches my eye first is
> #whatshot strong.  I don't recall where spaces and underscores are
> allowed in id and class names, so I avoid them.
>
> Yours,
> B

Actually #whatshot strong  should be fine. All that's doing is telling the
browser that any <strong> tag that's under the whatshot ID to be this style.

So it's not a space in the name - it's controlling 2 things.

p.s. The <strong> tag is the same as the <b> tag but helps people with
audible browsers. You may have already known this though.




-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From list01 at theparagon.org  Wed Oct  9 11:25:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <A6988054-DB94-11D6-8375-000502A39AB6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9D07A.8D4%list01@theparagon.org>

> i had the same  problem with style="" you don't have any, so maybe it's
> the whole style block. Try to link it instead and see what happens...
>
> hth


I tried linking my style sheet and it loaded a bit longer but then it ended
up doing the same thing.

Any other thoughts?


-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From mike at nthwave.net  Wed Oct  9 11:25:15 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:25:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3DA4584B.217C353A@nthwave.net>

I recommend my own CMS solution:
http://www.nthwave.net/elements/
Your client would need to install Python, and the Elements module, both free of
charge.
You, the developer would need to convert the editable pages to use one or more
templates, and pull the editable content out of the template. The editable
content usually looks like regular word processing text with just a few bits of
html and elements code where necessary.
The client will edit the content, and after running the Elements process with
the click of a button, upload the new pages to the site.

It's the easiest way I know to isolate content from code.

I'm currently debugging a server version which allows the source files to
reside on the server, and new site iterations to be built right on the server.

I'll be happy to help you with installation and the creation of templates.

m

Richard McFarland wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> I recently developed a site for a restaurant:
>
> http://www.nellsrestaurant.com
>
> The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> forever to update frequently-changing data.
>
> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there is no
> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has been
> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how to
> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's done.
> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor but
> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
> I've also run across a couple of web-based content editors (WebEdit and
> editace, for example). Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942
>
> --"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Wed Oct  9 11:31:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636B00C@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Nice site, by the way!

Maybe use some SSI or other type of includes for each box, which the owner
can edit.  One text file per box.

Josh


From jtocher at discoverysystems.com  Wed Oct  9 11:33:00 2002
From: jtocher at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] css quirks in AOL?
In-Reply-To: <3DA41B73.8030601@brucew.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9CD15.1A3FB%jtocher@discoverysystems.com>

Hey Bruce and Ben,

Thanks for the insight. I guess we also need to evaluate who we are drawing
to our site (will be mostly for reference from 'cold calls' we'll be
making).

Indeed most people who are using IE for their browser have already upgraded.
Too danged bad that those using AOL on any OS other than X will be stuck
with an outdated browser. Again, looking at the statistics, gotta think that
it's just not worth the trouble for the minute number of those Mac users who
are using AOL - get a REAL browser!!! I say... ;)

Anyway, thanks to all who took a peek...

Janice




on 10/9/02 8:05 AM, you wrote:

> After consulting the site logs for the past three months, I showed the
> client that in an average of 5,000 unique IPs per month (not the busiest
> of sites, to be sure), only one visitor other than the client himself,
> used IE 4.5 for the Mac.  After demonstrating on his secretary's Mac,
> (AOL5 Mac and IE5 Mac), I did not correct his logic when he said, "One
> in 15,000?  I guess I can live with that."
>
> And we upgraded his browser. (Note: AOL5 is still newest supported
> version on certain older versions of MacOS.)



From vodine at direct.ca  Wed Oct  9 11:40:00 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] css browser oddity part 2
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGECJDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <005e01c26fb2$3ed9fb10$638242d8@Virginia1>

> Hi Guys could I get a bit of feed back for how this looks in different
browsers
> please.
>
> http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_indx.html
>
> Thank you
> Andrew

Looks good in IE 6.02, WinXP.  However, I'll repost the link WITHOUT the
typo for the others.*grin*
http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

P.S. It's a good idea not to have spaces in your page URL's.

Virginia





From futureweb at macmail.com  Wed Oct  9 11:40:10 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:40:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] Advice please on CSS XML XHTML etc.
Message-ID: <B9CA19FE.16B%futureweb@macmail.com>

Firstly hello everyone as I?ve recently joined the list.

I?d like some advice on the state of current browsers technologies etc.

I?ve been learning web design for 2 years now, started off using flash which
took me into learning actionscript, which is very close to ECMA script. From
that I started building basic HTML pages for work ? learning from my fellow
employees, who are very *dreamweaver* based. So I've picked up many bad
habits along the way - of which I have been correcting. I've also been
learing Javascript since it is ECMA its been quite easy and am using DOM
testing now as well as the obvious NN4 and ie4 tests.

I've been researching CSS and XHTMl etc. its all very interesting and I've
learnt a lot from AListApart Evolt etc.

However it still seems very transitional and most of our clients insist on
Backward compatability (though we do stop at 4 and above).

So to get a general idea I'd like some opinions/advice on what to spend my
current thirst for knowledge on, I'm stuck between:

Following WC3 recommends and building CSS sites, getting messy with XHTML.

Learning ASP and incorporating more CSS into our table layouts.

Any pointers much appreciated.

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
www.dogstardesign.co.uk
------------------------->




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Oct  9 11:50:02 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:50:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFE9@fsjubj09>

>The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
>himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
>forever to update frequently-changing data.

XML, but sounds like he may not even be that proficient.

Given the content, and the fact they probably will want to update more than
just the menu, I'd look into a text-file solution.

I would break each menu section into a separate text file, one item per
line, then process them on the server as includes. In other words, include
say a PHP file and have the PHP file pull the text contents and format them
into the HTML.

You could do this with the other sections as well, such as the Events, Wine
List, etc.

-dave


From vodine at direct.ca  Wed Oct  9 11:54:01 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Wed Oct  9 11:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
References: <B9C9D07A.8D4%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <008d01c26fb4$2386d2f0$638242d8@Virginia1>

IE 6 & NN 6.2 on WinXP looks fine.

Virginia
www.thedesignuniverse.com

Phone (250) 563-3222
Fax (250) 563-3242

----- Original Message -----
From: "{ schaapy }" <list01 at theparagon.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?


> > i had the same  problem with style="" you don't have any, so maybe it's
> > the whole style block. Try to link it instead and see what happens...
> >
> > hth
>
>
> I tried linking my style sheet and it loaded a bit longer but then it
ended
> up doing the same thing.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
>
> -----------------
> Aaron Schaap
> www.theparagon.org
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Oct  9 12:01:17 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:01:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] Advice please on CSS XML XHTML etc.
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFEA@fsjubj09>

>So to get a general idea I'd like some opinions/advice on what to spend my
>current thirst for knowledge on, I'm stuck between:
>
>Following WC3 recommends and building CSS sites, getting messy with XHTML.

XHTML is not messy -- in fact it is cleaned-up HTML with a slight change in
syntax to make it readable by XML parsers.

Is this important to you? Maybe, maybe not. But remember, browsers are
becoming more and more standards-based every day. And the point of XHTML is
that you get "forward" compatibility built in.

I have a fully-dynamic site in ASP that I am redesigning, and while it's not
technically XHTML yet (for backward compatibility purposes) I do use XHTML
syntax (self-closing tags, etc) to make the move easier, and have already
found one benefit to using the XHTML approach: easy migration to other
output devices. I use a table-based layout but all styling is done via CSS.
All navigational and "chrome" elements (global nav, masthead, site toolbar,
main body, and footer) are given a unique ID. Before, nobody could print out
reports or information from our site, or if they could they got page after
page littered with toolbars and such. Now with the new approach, I just slap
in a print stylesheet and inside it I set all the unnecessary sections to
"display: none" and *poof* like magic I get easy printouts. Gotta love it.
:D

The idea expands to other platforms as well, i.e. if you have to develop for
browsers and PDAs, then XHTML allows you to write the *structure* once, and
then write a stylesheet or two for each of the target platforms, and it
works.

My site doesn't work that way, because our layout requires tables so far
(CSS isn't quite capable of it yet, and not all browsers support what it is
capable of) but it's going to be a heck of a lot easier when the time comes
to migrate.

>Learning ASP and incorporating more CSS into our table layouts.

ASP has nothing to do with it. ASP is a server-side dynamic scripting
framework. XHTML is client-side, ASP is server-side. The ASP generates the
XHTML and sends it to the browser, which interprets the XHTML (and CSS, etc)
and displays the page.

Soooo... you can learn both! :D

-dave


From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Wed Oct  9 12:02:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFE9@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNMEMKCGAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Do you have a database available to you? I have done this
sort of thing lots of times for clients storing the info
in a db. I create a form on the website that is not linked
from anywhere, the client has to bookmark it, and using a
username and password, they can add/delete/edit any item
they want on a certain page. I did this for an artist's
website where she lists the upcoming shows of her work at
galleries, for a charity that lists who has donated money
to them, and for a company that lists a photo and blurb
about their employees, and the employees change from time
to time, someone leaves, they hire someone new.
It is pretty easy to do with php or asp.
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:49 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


>The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various
pages (such as menu)
>himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to
have to pay me
>forever to update frequently-changing data.

XML, but sounds like he may not even be that proficient.

Given the content, and the fact they probably will want to
update more than
just the menu, I'd look into a text-file solution.

I would break each menu section into a separate text file,
one item per
line, then process them on the server as includes. In
other words, include
say a PHP file and have the PHP file pull the text
contents and format them
into the HTML.

You could do this with the other sections as well, such as
the Events, Wine
List, etc.

-dave
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From Liorean at user.bip.net  Wed Oct  9 12:13:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript traps - need input for article
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021005115631.00bae938@pop3.bip.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009191838.00b2ae20@pop3.bip.net>

[Resent since I need more input]

Hello Folks!

I'm writing up an article on the traps for a javascript programmer, and I
need input on possible things to take into count. The article will also
includes things that aren't really traps (they work), but that can be done
better in other ways. It's also intended to include a bit of tips on
increasing the performance of scripts.

So, please give me some input. Give me some stuff to put into the article!

(Note that this isn't one of those "Ten most usual errors in javascript"
articles with a target audience of people intending to learn javascript.
It's intended target audience is intermediate to expert javascript
programmers.)

// Liorean, waiting for input



From andrew at mindstream.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 12:13:07 2002
From: andrew at mindstream.co.uk (Andrew Mottershead)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:13:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <008d01c26fb4$2386d2f0$638242d8@Virginia1>
Message-ID: <000001c26fb7$96531200$010a0a64@MINDSTREKMR2TN>

Looks ok here on IE6 Win2Ksp3

I wouldn't even bother with NN4.6

regards

Andrew Mottershead
Web Developer
Mindstream Web Design

email: andrew at mindstream.co.uk
tel: +44 (0)1743 718262
fax: +44 (0) 7092 115513
web: www.mindstream.co.uk

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Virginia O'Dine
> Sent: 09 October 2002 17:52
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
>
>
> IE 6 & NN 6.2 on WinXP looks fine.
>
> Virginia
> www.thedesignuniverse.com
>
> Phone (250) 563-3222
> Fax (250) 563-3242
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "{ schaapy }" <list01 at theparagon.org>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
>
>
> > > i had the same  problem with style="" you don't have any,
> so maybe
> > > it's the whole style block. Try to link it instead and see what
> > > happens...
> > >
> > > hth
> >
> >
> > I tried linking my style sheet and it loaded a bit longer
> but then it
> ended
> > up doing the same thing.
> >
> > Any other thoughts?
> >
> >
> > -----------------
> > Aaron Schaap
> > www.theparagon.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org
> > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---
>
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 03/10/2002
>
>




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 12:15:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css browser oddity part 2
In-Reply-To: <005e01c26fb2$3ed9fb10$638242d8@Virginia1>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEDLDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Thank you Virginia

the spaces are underscores!

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Virginia O'Dine
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 05:38
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] css browser oddity part 2


> Hi Guys could I get a bit of feed back for how this looks in different
browsers
> please.
>
> http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_indx.html
>
> Thank you
> Andrew

Looks good in IE 6.02, WinXP.  However, I'll repost the link WITHOUT the
typo for the others.*grin*
http://www.worldaudiodesign2.co.uk/amplifier_parts_index.html

P.S. It's a good idea not to have spaces in your page URL's.

Virginia



--
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From list at zettai.net  Wed Oct  9 12:35:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9E0EF.E62C%list@zettai.net>

You should be able to get hosting for some kind of dynamic solution for not
much more than basic static page hosting that will give you some basic
functionality out of the box. Then he can use WebDAV to edit his pages in
realtime, or add new pages (news items, etc).

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Richard McFarland <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
>
> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there is no
> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has been
> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how to
> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's done.
> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor but
> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.



From kris at midtempo.net  Wed Oct  9 12:36:01 2002
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <3DA452EB.1050201@brucew.com>
References: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021009183107.01772d88@mail.btinternet.com>

>>It's not finished yet but if you go to
>>http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/classifieds/ you can get the basic idea
>>of what's going on.
>>
>>Every time I open Netscape 4.6 and go to the page it clamps up and closes
>>Netscape.
>>
>>Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.
>It's generally something in the CSS.  What catches my eye first is
>#whatshot strong.  I don't recall where spaces and underscores are
>allowed in id and class names, so I avoid them.

hiya,

think it is the css. vertical-align isn't supported, neither is (i believe)
list-style-image.

see mr meyers chart of good and bad at

http://www.webreview.com/style/css1/charts/mastergrid.shtml

hth

kris


From framar at interlog.com  Wed Oct  9 12:47:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Live Credit Card Authorization Resources?
Message-ID: <464681251.20021009134554@interlog.com>

I'm doing research for a quote. I know this has been
discussed in the past, but I don't seem to have the magic
keywords to find it in the archives

A client has all the merchant accounts to deal with Visa,
MC, Amex and Diners. He want's real time credit card
authorization with the companies in question. i.e. The user
inputs the CC data, the company, say Visa, approves or
denies the request in real time before the order can be
completed.

I'm running 4.5.1 on RH Linux, so that would make a
difference if CFX are used.

Where can I find resources on using Cold Fusion to interact
with such systems?  Basically, I would like to know what's
available technically, and it's limitations, as well as any
policy issues and costs that might be involved.

Thanks.

--
Frank Marion
Tel. 416 825 7488
framar at interlog.com
http://www.frankmarion.com



From evolt at stoutstreet.com  Wed Oct  9 12:52:03 2002
From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:52:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9E0EF.E62C%list@zettai.net>
Message-ID: <015101c26fbc$76d76e80$2a6d5140@pooky>

I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
an editor -- for free.
    This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
    For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
    Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
number of meals in the restaurant?


patrick
----- Original Message -----
> >
> > I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
is no
> > budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
been
> > made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
to
> > get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
done.
> > Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
but
> > that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.



From cvos at netpaths.net  Wed Oct  9 12:54:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Wed Oct  9 12:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ot] the death of meta tags
Message-ID: <B9C9BB09.7BC5%cvos@netpaths.net>

Many people are still fretting over meta tags in their websites.  This is
 not the path to good search engine rankings:

http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=253



Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From cvos at netpaths.net  Wed Oct  9 13:06:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: php mailinglist newsletter smtp
In-Reply-To: <20021009165348.4B23DC024@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B9C9BDF3.7BC9%cvos@netpaths.net>

You may find help with a program that is already created

http://Phplist.com

Many hosts DO allow you to use programs like this to send out self compiled
lists, including *cough*  netpaths.net


On 10/9/02 9:53 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

>
> The php script then sends a newsletter out by accessing the MySQL DB.




Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net/hosting/
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Wed Oct  9 13:10:00 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c26fbf$01984bf0$9865fea9@Laptop>

> I've also run across a couple of web-based content editors (WebEdit and
> editace, for example). Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Fast Page perl script for unix and windows for around $80. www.iexp.com

Allows updates of specified areas of pages, upload new images/files,
supports HTML, create new pages on the fly from templates.  Free developer
download (works only on 127.0.0.1).

For the money it's pretty good for what it does. A db driven CMS would of
course be better, but not as economical probably to set up.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Wed Oct  9 13:13:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
References: <B9C9A7E3.8C3%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <004501c26fbf$776faf80$9865fea9@Laptop>

FWIW, the page is now rendering, albeit slowly, in NN 4.06/4.7 on my Win2K
machine. I know NN 4 will frequently choke on larger (valid) pages with
mildly complicated CSS. I've also found that forms on such pages can upset
NN, but again your page is working for me now (11:10 PST)

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From framar at interlog.com  Wed Oct  9 13:16:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ot] the death of meta tags
In-Reply-To: <B9C9BB09.7BC5%cvos@netpaths.net>
References: <B9C9BB09.7BC5%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <1476446339.20021009141519@interlog.com>

On Wednesday, October 09, 2002, 1:52:58 PM, you said:
> Many people are still fretting over meta tags in their
> websites. This is not the path to good search engine rankings:

True, but the purpose of a meta tag is to provide information about
the document, and nothing else. The fact that search engines made
use of them is purely incidental. The two are technically
unrelated matters.



--
Frank Marion
Tel. 416 825 7488
framar at interlog.com
http://www.frankmarion.com



From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 13:24:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <015101c26fbc$76d76e80$2a6d5140@pooky>
Message-ID: <B9C9C096.1860%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Thanks, patrick, for your comments. Yes, the client wants to avoid paying me
to update those parts of the site that change frequently, like the menu.
Parts of the menu change every day, so he wants to be able to go into the
page at, say, 4:00pm and make changes for the day. More complicated pages,
like the newsletter, will still require my assistance.

I am not a professional web developer. My background is in fine art and
graphic design and I have no formal education or professional experience in
web development. I've learned how to do this much by lots of reading and
hanging out on lists like this one :->. This is the first commercial site
I've done, and my first foray into an all-style sheet site.

BTW-I'm taking meals in exchange for payment. I charge a flat hourly rate
and he gives it to me in gift certificates. Let's just say that I'll be
eating very well for a long time!

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--
> From: "patrick" <evolt at stoutstreet.com>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:51:15 -0600
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
> I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
> Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
> seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
> to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
> an editor -- for free.
> This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
> I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
> things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
> For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
> Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
> number of meals in the restaurant?
>
>
> patrick
> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
> is no
>>> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
> been
>>> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
> to
>>> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
> done.
>>> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
> but
>>> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Oct  9 13:24:09 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:24:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] uninvited site check [was Client wants to update page content]
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3DA475D3.1060900@macrovista.net>

Richard McFarland wrote:

> I recently developed a site for a restaurant:
>
> http://www.nellsrestaurant.com

Very nice site.  I have to admit I don't see the pattern to the
background-attachment: attribute.  Sometimes it is fixed and sometimes
it is scroll.  Care to share the logic?

--Steve



From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Wed Oct  9 13:26:01 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
Message-ID: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>

One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/

Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may be a professor
and possibly actually a real expert on the web.  I'm just wondering what's
inside his side--it's apparently actually a book turned into HTML pages.  It
looks like a lot to read.  Am I really going to be enlightened?

:)

Thanks,
Hershel



From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 13:28:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNMEMKCGAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <B9C9C177.1861%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

I knew in advance this was the best solution, but was hoping <sigh> there
might be an easier approach. I have zero knowledge about this sort of thing
and no coding background (other than my own html dabblings). Time to start
learning something new, huh?

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--

> From: "Nan Smith" <nansmith at heritageconcord.org>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:01:36 -0400
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
> Do you have a database available to you? I have done this
> sort of thing lots of times for clients storing the info
> in a db. I create a form on the website that is not linked
> from anywhere, the client has to bookmark it, and using a
> username and password, they can add/delete/edit any item
> they want on a certain page. I did this for an artist's
> website where she lists the upcoming shows of her work at
> galleries, for a charity that lists who has donated money
> to them, and for a company that lists a photo and blurb
> about their employees, and the employees change from time
> to time, someone leaves, they hire someone new.
> It is pretty easy to do with php or asp.
> Nan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
> David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:49 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
>
>> The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various
> pages (such as menu)
>> himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to
> have to pay me
>> forever to update frequently-changing data.
>
> XML, but sounds like he may not even be that proficient.
>
> Given the content, and the fact they probably will want to
> update more than
> just the menu, I'd look into a text-file solution.
>
> I would break each menu section into a separate text file,
> one item per
> line, then process them on the server as includes. In
> other words, include
> say a PHP file and have the PHP file pull the text
> contents and format them
> into the HTML.
>
> You could do this with the other sections as well, such as
> the Events, Wine
> List, etc.
>
> -dave
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From jacques_capesius at cnt.com  Wed Oct  9 13:33:01 2002
From: jacques_capesius at cnt.com (Jacques Capesius)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] recursive database design discussion
Message-ID: <6561B23FEAA18F45AE6A667DBE02C7671FC631@esply05>

Hi folks,

I'm designing the database architecture for a web content management system,
and one the puzzles I'm trying to figure out is mapping the organizational
hierarchy to a database system. There are two ways I was thinking about
doing this. Here's the first, and original way I was planning on going about
this. We'd have four tables:

1: T_ORGANIZATION (t_organizationID (pkey), (organization_name)

2: T_DEPARTMENT (t_departmentID (pkey), t_organizationID (fkey),
department_name)

3: T_GROUP (t_groupID (pkey), t_departmentID (fkey), t_organizationID
(fkey), group_name)

4: T_USER (t_userID (pkey), t_groupID (fkey), t_departmentID (fkey),
t_organizationID (fkey), user_name, password)

This model allows for a variety of relationships, like:
a) an organization can have many departments can have many groups can have
many users
b) an organization can have many departments can have many users.
c) an organization can have many users.

However, in discussing this with a colleague, we got to thinking that with
the T_GROUP entity, the T_DEPARTMENT and T_ORGANIZATION entities were kinda
redundant. We could just expand the T_GROUP entity and make a foreign key
that references itself, thus having parent/child relationships among the
groups themselves. The data model thus becomes:

1: T_GROUP (t_groupID (pkey), parent_groupID (fkey), group_name)

2: T_USER (t_userID (pkey), t_groupID (fkey), user_name, password)

Where the parent_groupID would point to the group that is higher in the
organizational hierarchy than the group in question. This eliminates two
tables, and simplifies the T_GROUP and T_USER tables immensely, which I
figure is better database design.

There's a drawback that I see though, and I'm writing to get you database
gurus' thoughts on this. Programming webpages to layout content and
navigation based on this model will require a lot more logic, most of it
recursive, to figure out the organizational hierarchy and determine, among
other things, who has access to what page.

My question is, what are your thoughts on these comments, and which model,
in your opinions, is the more sensible one.

thanks, fellas :)

-jacques :)


From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Wed Oct  9 13:33:09 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:33:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFICEJMEGAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

We recently gave a nice, fast perl gizmo called FileMan a try.
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/fileman/

It sits, protecting itself, in the site and can be configured to access only
a particular directory. You can upload files, download files, edit files via
WYSIWIG or text, manage archives, etc. We use it to control access to a
select group of files for editing by a certain user.

It's FREE for a single user/webmaster or only $150 for multi-user. Easy
install, easy interface. I could see you implementing includes or something
via ASP or PHP and putting the included files in the directory that is
accessible to FileMan, leaving the rest of the site free from harm.

BTW, I agree with patrick: barter whenever possible.

BH


> The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> forever to update frequently-changing data.



From evolt at stoutstreet.com  Wed Oct  9 13:40:01 2002
From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
Message-ID: <01a101c26fc3$3a945260$2a6d5140@pooky>

Good to hear you'rr getting food, at least! Hope it's good stuff.

Another thing to consider is to try not to be everything to everyone. In
this case, I know it will be difficult, but consider partnering/developing a
working relationship with folk with complementary skills.....say, a database
girl or a code guy. This will help immensely if you plan to get more web
gigs.


--------------------------------------------
patrick sanders
http://www.stoutstreet.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard McFarland" <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


> I knew in advance this was the best solution, but was hoping <sigh> there
> might be an easier approach. I have zero knowledge about this sort of
thing
> and no coding background (other than my own html dabblings). Time to start
> learning something new, huh?
>
> Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942




From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Wed Oct  9 13:41:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB19@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hershel Robinson [mailto:hershelr at netvision.net.il]
> Sent: October 9, 2002 2:20 PM

> Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may
> be a professor and possibly actually a real expert on the
> web.  I'm just wondering what's inside his side--it's
> apparently actually a book turned into HTML pages.  It looks
> like a lot to read.  Am I really going to be enlightened?

>From a quick scan of his site:
- it looks as though his server is passing the CSS for the pages with an
incorrect MIME type.
- his page can't be validated:
<http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/htm
l>
- he doesn't wrap text in paragraphs.
- and on this page:
<http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/html>
he advocates using points and inches to layout elements on screen, and
recommends the use of <b> and <i>.

Granted it is a few years old. But to answer your question: no I don't
think you're going to be enlightened. In fact, IMHO, you may get
misguided.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 13:43:00 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:43:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] uninvited site check [was Client wants to update
	page content]
In-Reply-To: <3DA475D3.1060900@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <B9C9C4F1.186B%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Uh..it seems there has been some sloppiness in the logic area :-P.
Originally, all the background images were set as fixed, so that any boxes
of text that overlay them can show off the <self-congratulatory-comment>
cool </self, etc.> transparency effect. I was having some problems with
legibility, though, so I set them all to scroll. Some of the background
graphics fight less for pixels with the overlying text, so those got set
back to fixed.

Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. I will have to consider that more
carefully.

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--

> From: Steve Lewis <slewis at macrovista.net>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:30:43 -0700
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] uninvited site check [was Client wants to update page
> content]
>
> Richard McFarland wrote:
>
>> I recently developed a site for a restaurant:
>>
>> http://www.nellsrestaurant.com
>
> Very nice site.  I have to admit I don't see the pattern to the
> background-attachment: attribute.  Sometimes it is fixed and sometimes
> it is scroll.  Care to share the logic?
>
> --Steve
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From scott at rigent.com  Wed Oct  9 13:44:00 2002
From: scott at rigent.com (Scott McPhee)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
In-Reply-To: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <000801c26fc3$24c28970$6501a8c0@mcmook>

1) This book was published in April 1999
2) The top links in search engines to his material are his own site.

Not that I have anything against the guy - or your client's advice - but
can you think of anything that might have changed in the online world
since 1999?  hmmm.  And besides, if people aren't quoting him in the
past 3 years - its probably because someone else said it better since.

sm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Hershel Robinson
> Sent: October 9, 2002 2:20 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
>
>
> One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read
> Philip Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web
> Publishing: http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
>
> Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may
> be a professor and possibly actually a real expert on the
> web.  I'm just wondering what's inside his side--it's
> apparently actually a book turned into HTML pages.  It looks
> like a lot to read.  Am I really going to be enlightened?
>
> :)
>
> Thanks,
> Hershel
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From davidu at everydns.net  Wed Oct  9 13:47:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
References: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <003c01c26fc4$39440f30$2532fc80@pravda>

Greenspun is a *very* smart guy.

He pioneered a lot of the CMS stuff we take for granted today.  He set up
ard digita university.  He founded photo.net (HUGE!)

A lot of his content is old, but the ideas are still true.  He has great
commentary and articles on database design, site design, and usability.

In my mind, Phil G. is a great worker of the web.  In fact, I'd love for
someone to do an interview with him for evolt.  He's the original evolter!

-davidu


Hershel Robinson wrote:
> One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
> Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
> http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
>
> Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may be a
> professor and possibly actually a real expert on the web.  I'm just
> wondering what's inside his side--it's apparently actually a book
> turned into HTML pages.  It looks like a lot to read.  Am I really
> going to be enlightened?
>
> :)
>
> Thanks,
> Hershel




From pms at stoutstreet.com  Wed Oct  9 13:50:01 2002
From: pms at stoutstreet.com (patrick sanders)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9C177.1861%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <018301c26fc2$e09c6680$2a6d5140@pooky>

Good to hear you'rr getting food, at least! Hope it's good stuff.

Another thing to consider is to try not to be everything to everyone. In
this case, I know it will be difficult, but consider partnering/developing a
working relationship with folk with complementary skills.....say, a database
girl or a code guy. This will help immensely if you plan to get more web
gigs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard McFarland" <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


> I knew in advance this was the best solution, but was hoping <sigh> there
> might be an easier approach. I have zero knowledge about this sort of
thing
> and no coding background (other than my own html dabblings). Time to start
> learning something new, huh?
>
> Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942



From russgri at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct  9 13:50:10 2002
From: russgri at bellsouth.net (Russell Griechen)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:50:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] executed by PHP
Message-ID: <008901c26fbb$409577a0$22611442@default>

This program says:
Extract the files and put them in a directory, where they can be executed by
PHP.

My Php is in C:\Program Files....where should I extract these files to?

Russell Griechen



From Peter.Barrett at corel.com  Wed Oct  9 13:50:37 2002
From: Peter.Barrett at corel.com (Peter Barrett)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:50:37 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript traps - need input for article
Message-ID: <2563EFDB68120F48B9F511B7957504361B0DF8@OTT-VSVR2.corelcorp.corel.ics>

Hm. I don't suppose this counts as an expert tip, but I'm interested in
what wisdom others on the list have to pass on, so I'll try a couple to
start the ball rolling:

	1. Simplicity. JS developers worry about character count (code
size), and runtime evaluation as performance killers. The other day, I
ran across a line of code in a site I maintain that looked like this:

	function foo ( value ){
		value = eval("'"+value+"'");
	...

	wow. This was too good. I put the line in comment & kept it in
the code (archive version - we use a script to strip out comments before
deployment) to bring it to the attention of the other fellas on my team
(the original author was no longer around, or I would have spoken to him
personally rather than put his code up for -er- comment).

	The example is interesting, because the author is trying to
ensure that value is cast as a string (as JS is an untyped language), in
the most convoluted way I've ever seen. First off, he's adding single
quote characters to the string. Actually, the result of that is a
guaranteed string anyway, and appending '' is a perfectly valid way of
getting the desired result. Then, at runtime, evaluating the value in
quotes, so that it's a string again. Eval is very expensive compared to
the append method above. Also, toString is defined as a base method of
Object, so value.toString(); would have been just as good, and perhaps
more readable to a novice.


	2. Functions are Data. While this principle can be used to
easily create tons of impossible-to-maintain self-modifying code, this
principle also allows for reflection (via the for/in loop, or closer to
the metal, inspecting the actual string that defines a function) and, as
I discovered, a great way to add metrics gathering.

	For example, when asked to improve the performance of the JS
framework that I'm maintaining, I wrote a small module that, at runtime,
gathers up all of the user-defined functions, and redefines them with
calls to logging facilities to each function. One sweep of use (very
slow, of course), and you have metrics on which functions are called
most often, when, *relative* timing (not as good as absolute, as all
those debug calls throw it off, but still useful), return values, etc.
	This is a pretty neat feature, because I don't need to add all
of those debug statements by hand (~10K lines of JavaScript in total on
this site/webservice), which would need to come out before deployment
anyway. Sure it runs terribly slowly, but it's for debug, so who cares?
Now I can just include the file with other JS on any page I want to
test... No maintaining any extra script. I found a few bottlenecks I
hadn't suspected, I don't have to maintain the modified code - it gets
tossed each time, and it's useful to any JS package that my team writes
in the future. Some of the best code re-use I've ever gotten.

My two cents. I look forward to hearing some other thoughts.

Cheers!
~pete





-----Original Message-----
From: Liorean [mailto:Liorean at user.bip.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:21 PM
To: Evolt Thelist
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript traps - need input for article


[Resent since I need more input]

Hello Folks!

I'm writing up an article on the traps for a javascript programmer, and
I need input on possible things to take into count. The article will
also includes things that aren't really traps (they work), but that can
be done better in other ways. It's also intended to include a bit of
tips on increasing the performance of scripts.

So, please give me some input. Give me some stuff to put into the
article!

(Note that this isn't one of those "Ten most usual errors in javascript"
articles with a target audience of people intending to learn javascript.
It's intended target audience is intermediate to expert javascript
programmers.)

// Liorean, waiting for input

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
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From michael at tapinternet.com  Wed Oct  9 13:52:00 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (michael kimsal)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
In-Reply-To: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
References: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <1034189483.1710.3.camel@lunix>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 14:19, Hershel Robinson wrote:
> One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
> Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
> http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
>
> Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may be a professor
> and possibly actually a real expert on the web.  I'm just wondering what's
> inside his side--it's apparently actually a book turned into HTML pages.  It
> looks like a lot to read.  Am I really going to be enlightened?
>


Depends on what parts you read.

Phil Greenspun was writing fairly 'ahead of the curve' stuff in 1996,
1997.  Looking back it's obvious stuff to most people, but if you think
 back to 1997, even many of the 'big web houses' (I worked at one)
weren't seriously considering database-driven sites for general
content.  Ecommerce, maybe, but that was it.  It was just 'too
difficult'.

He founded ars digita, and the ars digita community system (ACS).  Lots
of drama in his being forced out, which is a good take on the
rise and fall of dotcoms.

You should be familiar enough with it to know how you'd react
to your client's questions about his stuff.  If they're telling you
to read it, and they're a new client, be polite a acquaint yourself
with it.  Like many people, he was spot on in some respects, and way off
base on others.


Michael Kimsal
http://www.logicreate.com
734-480-9961



From thelist at brucew.com  Wed Oct  9 13:54:01 2002
From: thelist at brucew.com (Bruce Wilbur)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NN4 Usage (was: why is my vialid site crashing in NN4.6?)
Message-ID: <3DA47B1E.7060107@brucew.com>

>What are the latest stats on the usage of NN 4.7? Can't we just forget
>about the stupid piece of crap? Plus if it happens on a Mac running
>4.7,  how big of an audience can that be? Don't get me wrong, I am a
>passionate Mac user (since 89) But even among the Mac users I know the
>only ones using NN4.7 are web developers ruining their days testing
>pages on it. (like me). Similarly, how many PC users are running it? I
>don't know a single one except again, web developers. So maybe it is
>safe to ignore it.

IMHO, the only numbers that count are those from my clients' logs.  Not
only is that where my revenue stream comes from, but I can get up close
and personal with the raw data.  Who knows how those "industry average"
statistics are generated?

Remembering that your clients' numbers will be different, most likely
due to target demographics, for the client sites I maintain, the
September number is 9.71%.  Including all unknown, "legacy" and WebTV
(ack!) browsers, it was 11.97%.

Over the past two years, industry average figures consistently run about
half of what I see at my clients' sites.  The most recent figure I've
seen bandied about, 5%, is in line with my experience.

Remember:  Your mileage may vary.

Yours,
B



From davidu at everydns.net  Wed Oct  9 13:54:12 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Wed Oct  9 13:54:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] Information on Phil Greenspun and some of his articles
Message-ID: <000d01c26fc5$2f9c2d40$2532fc80@pravda>

 Hey Evolters'

I meant to add some links in my post about Phil G. but here some are:

http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/index.html  (main index of some of his
better articles -- he calls it a book now)

Case Studies :: http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/case-studies

Interfacing a Relational Database to the Web ::
http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/databases-interfacing

A Future So Bright You'll Need to Wear Sunglasses ::
http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/future.html

Those are just some of my favorites...They've been around for years and most
have been updated, some haven't.  Most of his comments aren't based on
technology, rather on practice.

-davidu

--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead





From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Wed Oct  9 14:04:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] executed by PHP
In-Reply-To: <008901c26fbb$409577a0$22611442@default>
References: <008901c26fbb$409577a0$22611442@default>
Message-ID: <20021009190621.GA9171@us-lot.org>

On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 12:42:33PM -0500, Russell Griechen wrote:
> This program says:

This program? Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400?

> Extract the files and put them in a directory, where they can be executed by
> PHP.
>
> My Php is in C:\Program Files....where should I extract these files to?

I would imagine it means a directory the is configured in your webserver
as one containing files to be servered over the web and that is configured
to allow files to be parse by PHP.

--
David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 14:14:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ot] the death of meta tags
In-Reply-To: <B9C9BB09.7BC5%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEEDDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Is Alex his dog!

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Cayley Vos
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 06:53
To: evolt
Subject: [thelist] [ot] the death of meta tags


Many people are still fretting over meta tags in their websites.  This is
 not the path to good search engine rankings:

http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=253



Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development

--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From mike at nthwave.net  Wed Oct  9 14:19:01 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Wed Oct  9 14:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFICEJMEGAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <3DA480FD.B8DEA9D8@nthwave.net>

I just checked out the FileMan demo. Nice product.
However, it looks like there is no separation of content from code or from page
layout "template". The chef will have to read and edit barebones html and do it
in an html textarea.
Is there a way around this?

BTW, I've never used Zope, but it might be a good solution for the restaurant.

m

Bill Haenel wrote:

> We recently gave a nice, fast perl gizmo called FileMan a try.
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/fileman/
>
> It sits, protecting itself, in the site and can be configured to access only
> a particular directory. You can upload files, download files, edit files via
> WYSIWIG or text, manage archives, etc. We use it to control access to a
> select group of files for editing by a certain user.
>
> It's FREE for a single user/webmaster or only $150 for multi-user. Easy
> install, easy interface. I could see you implementing includes or something
> via ASP or PHP and putting the included files in the directory that is
> accessible to FileMan, leaving the rest of the site free from harm.
>
> BTW, I agree with patrick: barter whenever possible.
>
> BH
>
> > The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> > himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> > forever to update frequently-changing data.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From list at zettai.net  Wed Oct  9 15:12:02 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:12:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <3DA480FD.B8DEA9D8@nthwave.net>
Message-ID: <B9CA05CE.E66A%list@zettai.net>

zope would be an excellent solution for this as it makes it easy to separate
content from style and has the dyanmic db-backed solution built-in. The chef
could pull up a web form or WebDAV in, enter his text or edit the file and
bang, its a 5 minute job and monkey-easy ;P and hosting is not much more
expensive that "static" page hosting.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Michael Mell <mike at nthwave.net>
>
> BTW, I've never used Zope, but it might be a good solution for the restaurant.



From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Wed Oct  9 15:34:00 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:34:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
In-Reply-To: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <KIECJFDIGJOFCMFKDEKBOEFMDFAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

Hershel Robinson wrote:
<snip>
One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/

Anybody know about this guy and his site?
</end>

I loved the book when I first read it. A lot of stuff that seems obvious to
us now, was first brought the majority of web developers awareness through
his book and web site.

I would heartily recommend you find the book and read it, (web sites are far
too difficult to read). You could probably find it in a remaindered store
for a few quid/dollars/euros, and is still worth reading if only for the
fact that clients really did spend 100,000+ on a database web system that
you can download for free now... if only I knew THEN what I think I know
now... ;)

But as he says: http://philip.greenspun.com/books/
"Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing", a 1997 classic that is sort of
embarrassing now.

Kind regards,
Liam
http://www.liamdelahunty.com/ web/ design/ database/ programming
http://www.britstream.com/ Hosting/ Domain Names From UKP 7.50 p.a.
http://www.corx.net/ :: TUNE IN :: DROP DOWN :: GAME ON ::



From seyon at delime.com  Wed Oct  9 15:42:02 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:42:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
In-Reply-To: <00a501c26fc1$452921d0$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021009163814.0233eda8@mail.delime.com>

Message from Hershel Robinson (10/9/2002 02:19 PM)
>One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
>Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
>http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
>
>Anybody know about this guy and his site?  It appears he may be a professor
>and possibly actually a real expert on the web.  I'm just wondering what's
>inside his side--it's apparently actually a book turned into HTML pages.  It
>looks like a lot to read.  Am I really going to be enlightened?

If the client is worth anything significant to you, you should at least
read it in passing. Aside from the fact you will probably pick up some
useful knowledge, you'll be able to employ a version of name-dropping when
communicating with your client.

"We should be doing something similar to what Greenspun described in
chapter Z." Or "I agree with Greenspun's method of accomplishing X."
Doesn't matter whether you knew this stuff already or not.

Your client thinks this person is credible, and so long as he's not a total
charlatan, which he doesn't appear to be, you can use that to your advantage.

regards.
-marc


From vodine at direct.ca  Wed Oct  9 15:51:01 2002
From: vodine at direct.ca (Virginia O'Dine)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <015d01c26fd5$50637e10$638242d8@Virginia1>

Here's an article I just ran across...
http://javascript.about.com/library/weekly/aa102901a.htm
"Using Javascript to Manage Content"

Also, here's a site that offers browser-based web updating.
http://www.editmysiteonline.com

Virginia

From: "Richard McFarland" <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


> Hello, all.
>
> I recently developed a site for a restaurant:
>
> http://www.nellsrestaurant.com
>
> The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> forever to update frequently-changing data.
>
> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there is
no
> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has been
> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how to
> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
done.
> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor but
> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
> I've also run across a couple of web-based content editors (WebEdit and
> editace, for example). Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942
>
> --"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 15:53:03 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:53:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <015101c26fbc$76d76e80$2a6d5140@pooky>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEEGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Excellent, I wanted to say something like this and glad someone else did.  This
is our industry, so we shouldn't sell ourselve out.  Does he give discounts or
free meals to people who come in and say 'oh I didn't budget for the whole meal'
I think not.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of patrick
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 06:51
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
an editor -- for free.
    This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
    For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
    Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
number of meals in the restaurant?


patrick
----- Original Message -----
> >
> > I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
is no
> > budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
been
> > made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
to
> > get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
done.
> > Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
but
> > that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.

--
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From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Wed Oct  9 15:53:09 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Wed Oct  9 15:53:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act
  pertain to Internet Content?
In-Reply-To: <20021009165348.4B23DC024@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021009132253.00a01020@accessibleinter.net>

At 09:53 AM 10/09/2002, Brian W King wrote:
> >I believe the ADA says that companies above 15 employees  must follow the
> >law's mandates.  I doubt your personal site qualifies.
>
>I think you missed the point on the article.  It states that as the law
>currently is written, there is not statute.  There is no law that defines
>how websites are to be displayed or coded.  Until one of these cases
>actually makes it through the court system, there probably won't be one
>either.

I think that's pretty obvious, yes.  I was speaking hypothetically, as this
whole debate already is until/unless a court makes law on the whole
issue.  Expect that this airline case will settle and the issue will just
keep hanging on.

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/




From jacborg at mac.com  Wed Oct  9 16:22:04 2002
From: jacborg at mac.com (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Wed Oct  9 16:22:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
In-Reply-To: <B9C9D07A.8D4%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <121ECA79-DBCD-11D6-8375-000502A39AB6@mac.com>

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:24 PM, { schaapy } wrote:

> I tried linking my style sheet and it loaded a bit longer but then it
> ended
> up doing the same thing.
>
even by using @import?

I've got a stickies note with netscape 4 bugs very comprehensive -- I
never use it though !

I don't have the original link though if you try to google search for:
netscape 4 bugs blockquote table acronymPaul Beakley

these are words in my stickies note... if you have no luck I can forward
you the thingie...


I wouldn't bother much with NN4 though just do a very basic style sheet
to position stuff and that's it, then add the @import uber stylesheet
for more capable browsers...



From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Oct  9 17:19:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] network administration sites/lists
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE0330D6@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

are there any lists such as this that deal solely with network
administration? i'm in a windows environment and i i have questions all
the time about that sort of stuff.

however i don't have any tips and so i rarely ask questions to the list
for fear of being banished.

anyone have any recommendations?

thanks,
chris.

<tip type="basic security: passwords" author="chris parker">
it's a good idea to change passwords in your organization at least more
than once a year. preferably every other month, or in some cases even
monthly/biweekly/weekly. your organizations security requirements can
help you decide how often they need to be changed.

not only do passwords have to be changed every so often, it's also an
even better idea to make them strong. here are a few guidelines to
making a strong password.

1. use at least 8 characters (the more the better)
2. use lower case letters (a...z), upper case letters (A...Z), numbers
(0...9), and also the special characters (~...+). and if you want to get
real crazy use the extended characters like ALT-159, or ALT-451.
3. use spaces

with just those things in mind you can make something like this:

My_D0& h?$+fl33s

"my dog has flees"

just something to think about.
</tip>


From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 17:31:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEEGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9C9F9E0.1898%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Dear Andrew,

I agree with your sentiments 100%. What I didn't say in my original post is
that I am *not* a professional web developer and did the site in exchange
for meals (based on a flat per hour rate) as a favor for a friend. I see now
that I should have considered more thoroughly how to accomplish this aspect
and presented him with the options and costs up front. My responsibility
entirely. Now, I just want to help him do what he wants to do as simply as
possible.

Thanks for your comments.

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--


> From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:55:50 +0100
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
> Excellent, I wanted to say something like this and glad someone else did.
> This
> is our industry, so we shouldn't sell ourselve out.  Does he give discounts or
> free meals to people who come in and say 'oh I didn't budget for the whole
> meal'
> I think not.
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of patrick
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 06:51
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
>
> I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
> Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
> seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
> to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
> an editor -- for free.
> This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
> I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
> things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
> For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
> Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
> number of meals in the restaurant?
>
>
> patrick
> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
> is no
>>> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
> been
>>> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
> to
>>> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
> done.
>>> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
> but
>>> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Oct  9 17:32:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] network administration sites/lists
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE0330D6@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009153010.02a01748@baratta.com>

At 03:18 PM 10/9/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:

>are there any lists such as this that deal solely with network
>administration? i'm in a windows environment and i i have questions all
>the time about that sort of stuff.

Ask away here. Myself and more than a couple of people here admin machines.

>however i don't have any tips and so i rarely ask questions to the list
>for fear of being banished.

Banished?? Nah. ;-)
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 17:40:02 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:40:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <B9C9F9E0.1898%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEEPDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a joke?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Richard McFarland
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:21
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content


Dear Andrew,

I agree with your sentiments 100%. What I didn't say in my original post is
that I am *not* a professional web developer and did the site in exchange
for meals (based on a flat per hour rate) as a favor for a friend. I see now
that I should have considered more thoroughly how to accomplish this aspect
and presented him with the options and costs up front. My responsibility
entirely. Now, I just want to help him do what he wants to do as simply as
possible.

Thanks for your comments.

richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
206-378-6942

--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--


> From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:55:50 +0100
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
> Excellent, I wanted to say something like this and glad someone else did.
> This
> is our industry, so we shouldn't sell ourselve out.  Does he give discounts or
> free meals to people who come in and say 'oh I didn't budget for the whole
> meal'
> I think not.
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of patrick
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 06:51
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
>
> I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
> Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
> seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
> to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
> an editor -- for free.
> This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
> I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
> things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
> For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
> Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
> number of meals in the restaurant?
>
>
> patrick
> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
> is no
>>> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
> been
>>> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
> to
>>> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
> done.
>>> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
> but
>>> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From kimberly.carroll at art.com  Wed Oct  9 17:49:02 2002
From: kimberly.carroll at art.com (Kimberly Carroll)
Date: Wed Oct  9 17:49:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEEPDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000801c26fe6$18f0f140$3c00a8c0@wtp.art>

http://www.editmysiteonline.com/e/

I had run across this resource very recently.
It is a pay service, but the monthly fee would likely be less than
paying you to maintain it, and give the client a sense of ownership and
control over his content.



From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Oct  9 18:02:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Oct  9 18:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] open relay was [OT] network administration sites/lists
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE0330D7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

anthony,

not that i have anything to ask right at the moment, but would you mind
if i contacted you directly if i'm in need sometime in the future? or
should i just post to the list?

wait! now that i think of it, i do have a question. so i'll present it
to the list.

a few months ago (thanks to my negligence and inexperience) we had our
website being used as an open relay.

i quickly got the relay shut and sent emails for retests from the DNSBL
sites. however today i noticed that in the mailroot\drop directory there
are quite a few emails that are saying basically "this is a test email
to see if you have an open relay. we are testing you because we have
recently received email from your server." to paraphrase.

although everything i've read indicates that the relay is closed (i even
telnetted in from an outside box and could not relay a message [which is
how i was told to test it]). the earliest email i have in the drop
directory is about 2 months old and i closed the relay more than 4
months ago.

anything that i can use/do to verify that the relay is actually closed?


thanks,
chris.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Baratta [mailto:Anthony at Baratta.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:31 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] [OT] network administration sites/lists
>
>
> At 03:18 PM 10/9/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>
> >are there any lists such as this that deal solely with network
> >administration? i'm in a windows environment and i i have
> questions all
> >the time about that sort of stuff.
>
> Ask away here. Myself and more than a couple of people here
> admin machines.
>
> >however i don't have any tips and so i rarely ask questions
> to the list
> >for fear of being banished.
>
> Banished?? Nah. ;-)
> --
> Anthony Baratta
> President
> Keyboard Jockeys
>
> "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Oct  9 18:34:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Oct  9 18:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] open relay was [OT] network administration
  sites/lists
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE0330D7@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009162401.02984d60@baratta.com>

At 04:01 PM 10/9/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:

>not that i have anything to ask right at the moment, but would you mind
>if i contacted you directly if i'm in need sometime in the future? or
>should i just post to the list?

Posting to the list is your best method of getting an answer quickly, if
necessary.

>a few months ago (thanks to my negligence and inexperience) we had our
>website being used as an open relay.
>
>anything that i can use/do to verify that the relay is actually closed?

What SMTP Service are you using? e.g. MS? qMail? SendMail? And what
platform? MS? *NIX?

Some SMTP Services will accept "anything" but not deliver the message
making it look like it's open when it's not. What you have seen might be
from relay probes.

You can test your openness via tools like these:

http://www.paladincorp.com.au/unix/spam/spamlart/

http://njabl.org/method.html
     # Requested testing:

     * If you would like your server tested, use telnet to connect to port
2500 on rt.njabl.org from the server you want tested. Your server will be
tested and you will see the results of the test as it is run.

Note: If you are not sure how your system was used as an open relay, you
can telnet as instructed above and the SMTP conversation will display in
real time as your system is (re)tested, demonstrating the combination of
to/from addresses which result in your system acting as an open relay.

http://www.openrelaycheck.com/orc/checker.asp

http://eyeonsecurity.org//tools/relay.html

--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From mail at webmarketingworx.com  Wed Oct  9 18:59:01 2002
From: mail at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Wed Oct  9 18:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <3DA480FD.B8DEA9D8@nthwave.net>
Message-ID: <OGEGLPOAALPOBHGOPHFICEDPEBAA.mail@webmarketingworx.com>

> I just checked out the FileMan demo. Nice product.
> However, it looks like there is no separation of content from
> code or from page
> layout "template". The chef will have to read and edit barebones
> html and do it
> in an html textarea.
> Is there a way around this?

If it were me, I'd build a menu.php page (or whatever), with spaces for page
includes like <?include "menu1.inc"?>, where menu1.inc contains nothing but
the most basic html for the menu, which is pretty safely built by FileMan's
WYSIWIG editor. It writes pretty clean stuff if it's something simple like a
menu list. It doesn't write perfectly compliant XHTML, or even HTML, but
then neither do I!

If you look at Richard's menu page, you'll see that it has several boxes. In
the boxes, you could make your includes, (i.e., menu1.inc, menu2.inc, etc.).
The .inc pages would be the only items in the directory that FileMan has
access to. The PHP pages would be outside that directory.

This is not a glamorous solution, but it would work, and would be simple
enough to compare favorably against the payment that Richard may or may not
get in return.

BH

>
> Bill Haenel wrote:
>
> > We recently gave a nice, fast perl gizmo called FileMan a try.
> > http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/fileman/



From prosayist at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 19:30:01 2002
From: prosayist at yahoo.com (Dan Stockton)
Date: Wed Oct  9 19:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
Message-ID: <20021010002948.28598.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

I noticed that if you take out one of these;
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>
near the end (there's two sets of them, right before </body>) it doesn't cause that error in NS4 (I tried 4.03, 4.78)



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com


From Ishmael74 at aol.com  Wed Oct  9 20:47:01 2002
From: Ishmael74 at aol.com (Ishmael74 at aol.com)
Date: Wed Oct  9 20:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] help! ive fallen and cant get up!!
Message-ID: <fb.2d7aa786.2ad635ec@aol.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
hey all,

ive taken the <> of the tags.. so hopefully this is considered plain text..
if not sorry.
thought i might see if you could help me here on something trivial, and
not-so-useful.
basically...ive been coding javascript for about a month as i build my first
website... and i'm going through a book that gave me this exercise. simple
enough i thought. its based on the setTimeout() / clearTimeout() methods.
here's what the exercise says to do:

                                int the  <head> section create a function
that
                                displays a message in the status bar three
times,
                                clearing it between each time it is
displayed. each time
                                the message is shown, it should be visible
for 400
                                milliseconds and and remain invisible for
200. when the
                                flashing is done, the message should be
visible
                                in the status bar. the function should be
called in
                               <body onLoad="myFunction()">

knowing that these are automatic methods that can't be manipulated... i tried
to use a counter that didnt work... it does nothing in the code now.. i tried
to use it in a if statement but i get errors and the giant for loop doesnt
work either. i don't really want anything to blink on a page but its the
principle of understanding how to manipulate set/clearTimeout(). they only
way i could control set and clear was to create a button, but as i said, this
exercise seems to want an automatic process. sorry to trouble you with this
and thanks for taking the time if you decide to try it out.

thanks,

wyatt

SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript"

// USE THIS CODE BLOCK FOR SCRIPTS PUT IN THE <HEAD> SECTION

//window.document.write("your current url: " + window.location);

var msg = "hello there, i'm here";
var i = 1;
counter = 0;
function flashStat()
{
 for(i=0; i<3; i++)
{
   if(i)
   {
     status = msg;
     i = 0;
     counter = counter++;
   }
   else
   {
     status = " ";
     i = 1;
     clearTimeout("flashStat()", 200);
     return true;
   }

 id = setTimeout("flashStat()", 4000);
 return true;
}
}
status = msg;

/SCRIPT
/HEAD

BODY onLoad="myFunct"


From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Wed Oct  9 22:40:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Wed Oct  9 22:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEEPDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9CA42DD.18BD%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Andrew,

Not a joke. I'll bite...Why?

Richard
 --
Richard McFarland <rlmcfarland at attbi.com>
206-378-6942

> From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:42:45 +0100
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
> This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a joke?
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Richard McFarland
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:21
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>
>
> Dear Andrew,
>
> I agree with your sentiments 100%. What I didn't say in my original post is
> that I am *not* a professional web developer and did the site in exchange
> for meals (based on a flat per hour rate) as a favor for a friend. I see now
> that I should have considered more thoroughly how to accomplish this aspect
> and presented him with the options and costs up front. My responsibility
> entirely. Now, I just want to help him do what he wants to do as simply as
> possible.
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942
>
> --"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--
>
>
>> From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
>> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:55:50 +0100
>> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>> Subject: RE: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>>
>> Excellent, I wanted to say something like this and glad someone else did.
>> This
>> is our industry, so we shouldn't sell ourselve out.  Does he give discounts
>> or
>> free meals to people who come in and say 'oh I didn't budget for the whole
>> meal'
>> I think not.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of patrick
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 06:51
>> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>> Subject: Re: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
>>
>>
>> I am curious about situations such as this -- vis-a-vis 'no budget'.
>> Not being privy to the particulars of this situation, forgive me if I may
>> seem out of line, but this client is asking you to give him the capability
>> to change things -- through a wysiwyg page-based doo-hickey or training in
>> an editor -- for free.
>> This is your livelihood, is it not? It is valuable, correct?
>> I understand things can not always be budgeted for, but there are other
>> things of value the client can offer (it's a restaurant, right?). Why not:
>> For each hour of html 'training', you get one hour of cooking lessons?
>> Providing a server-based solution to make updating pages easy, you get X
>> number of meals in the restaurant?
>>
>>
>> patrick
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there
>> is no
>>>> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has
>> been
>>>> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how
>> to
>>>> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
>> done.
>>>> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor
>> but
>>>> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From futureweb at macmail.com  Thu Oct 10 03:33:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <000801c26fe6$18f0f140$3c00a8c0@wtp.art>
Message-ID: <B9CAF8FF.1AE%futureweb@macmail.com>

On a similar note:

Www.iblurbs.com

Didn?t want to suggest it as your site seems quite clean and these editors
will let people change fonts, colours, sizes etc.

But a very cheap option nonetheless


On 10/10/02 12:49 am, "Kimberly Carroll" <kimberly.carroll at art.com> wrote:

> http://www.editmysiteonline.com/e/
>
> I had run across this resource very recently.
> It is a pay service, but the monthly fee would likely be less than
> paying you to maintain it, and give the client a sense of ownership and
> control over his content.

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 10 03:40:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] IE 5.0 PC and CSS inline elements
Message-ID: <F1534D3MBhe3WYIgoFT00002dbf@hotmail.com>


>>I am trying to create a horizontal nav bar using A tags and CSS. I have
>>assigned padding, borders, etc. to the tags, but IE 5.0 PC doesn't support
>>inline padding or border. Are there any CSS workarounds to present
>>different
>>CSS to IE 5.0 PC only, so I don't have to use browser detection or a nav
>>bar
>>of images.
>>
>sorry about the double post, the previous should
>have said "will present different CSS to IE5.x
>*PC*"

What you might try is using an @import declaration and *not* putting it on
the first line of the style sheet. A while ago I concluded that NN6 doesn't
accept @imports that aren't on the first line. Don't know how IEMac and
Opera will react, though.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 10 03:59:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu Oct 10 03:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] why is my valid site crashing NN4.6?
Message-ID: <F28uWDZ9LtSLtBRuw9w00018440@hotmail.com>


> > It's not finished yet but if you go to
> > http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/classifieds/ you can get the
> > basic idea
> > of what's going on.
> >
> > Every time I open Netscape 4.6 and go to the page it clamps up and
> > closes  Netscape.
> >
> > Why would this happen? All my HTML and CSS is 100% validated.
> >
> > So you know - I'm on a Mac.

1) Validated code does not mean that the code will work in all browsers. It
just means that it validates.

2) The 4.5 and 4.6 series of Netscape are horribly buggy. I advise you to
test sites in 4.71 or higher to avoid going completely mad.

3) That said, the page also crashes my NN4.75 Win98.

4) Possibility 1: border: #999 1px solid;
NN4 doesn't like the shorthand syntax much and can crash terribly if you
apply too many borders. Move all borders to an @import style sheet and see
if that helps.

5) Possibility 2: You might use too many layers (absolutely positioned
elements). Though you use only 7, which usually is quite OK, Netscape 4 can
react strangely if it thinks you use too many layers for its poor memory to
keep track of.
Try putting all icons in one layer. I don't think it's necessary for them to
each have their own layer.

6) Possibility 3: It just might be the shorthand for margins and paddings.
If the two suggestions above don't help, change the margins and paddings to
the long variants (margin-top: 30px; etc).

But overall I think it's the borders.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 06:47:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 06:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows
In-Reply-To: <B9CA42DD.18BD%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEFNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

the mail function operates differently on a windows OS according to the manual

'The Windows implementation of mail() differs in many ways from the Unix
implementation. First, it doesn't use a local binary for composing messages but
only operates on direct sockets which means a MTA is needed listening on a
network socket (which can either on the localhost or a remote machine). Second,
the custom headers like From:, Cc:, Bcc: and Date: are not interpreted by the
MTA in the first place, but are parsed by PHP. PHP < 4.3 only supported the Cc:
header element (and was case-sensitive). PHP >= 4.3 supports all the mentioned
header elements and is no longer case-sensitive.'

Can anyone shed a little illuminating light on what MTA is?  in between my
reading :)

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 07:20:01 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Thu Oct 10 07:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEFNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <B9CA42DD.18BD%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
	<NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEFNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021010131730.5adae851.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:49:37 +0100 Andrew Maynes wrote:


> Can anyone shed a little illuminating light on what MTA is?  in
> between my reading :)


MTA = Mail Transport Agent.

The thing thats shuttles mail between servers (at it's most basic
level). On *nix MTA's include sendmail and qmail. No idea what they're
called in the Win32 world.


G.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9pW/a4AAXt40rqS4RArnrAKCuEaN1iafFZw+j01eKWr5p1s53XQCgnVkK
f8FQMBTsJcHon3b12KdfQ2Y=
=OktW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Oct 10 07:31:00 2002
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 07:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Does the Americans with Disabilities, ADA, act pertain to Internet
 Content?
Message-ID: <OF50844813.3F328BC2-ON80256C4E.0042A91D@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Responding to several posts:

Benjamin wrote:
> This isn't the proper forum for it most likely but I believe it must be
> said; the Internet, as it stands today, is primarily a visual medium.
This
> law is, in my opinion, akin to someone who is deaf suing the RIAA because
> they are unable to hear the music on a CD they just bought

Presumably you'd also argue that films shouldn't have subtitles for the
deaf or audio descriptions for the blind..?

Funny that - my DVD of Monsters Inc. has both.

I'd be more prepared to argue for the removal of the laugh track on
sit-coms for the humour impaired...

btw, the Internet is more text than any other kind of medium, even though
there are some fine (and not-so-fine) examples of other media used.

> On a side note, at least this would do away with moronic flash only
sites.

On the contrary, if the Internet is a visual-only medium, then the primary
problem with flash-only sites goes away, and the argument for them becomes
highly persuasive. (Although it's worth saying that MM are doing a lot of
work to make Flash more accessible than it historically has been).

Bill wrote:
> I believe the ADA says that companies above 15 employees  must follow the
> law's mandates.

>From memory, that's under the schedule for staff accessibility (ie it would
apply to Intranets, not to Internet or Extranet sites). If I have a staff
of 3, but a wide public customer base, then it's logical that the act
should apply to me as much as it does to a company with the same customer
base and more employees.

In the UK, the 1995 DDA talks about agencies that provide services to the
public, and provides an (explicitly) non-exclusive list.


Stephen wrote:
> What company in todays economy wants to look like the bad guy and have it
> plastered on every major media outlet.  Their lawyers are probably saying
it
> is a tossup

And where lawyers think it's evenly balanced, their usual advice is to
settle as the risk is too great in case you lose. Which should be our
advice to clients, even if we think that the law's not clear. To cover our
backsides[1], we should be advising clients "If it goes to court and you
lose (which is a distinct probability, if not certainty), you're in deep
trouble. Even if you win, you don't want to be paying lawyers any more than
you have to. Avoiding that, provided it's planned for early enough, will
cost almost nothing, and give you some nice search engine placement bonuses
too"

[1] From 2 perspectives - (a) If your client goes down and you didn't warn
them, they're going to sue you (b) from memory (books are at home),
contractors providing inaccessible work for clients are also liable under
ADA.

> It would be nice if somebody went to court so that it would help clear
the air.

Amen to that

Brian wrote:
> There are many cases where the guidelines have been rewritten or
> simply canned because they were found to be harmful to others or simply
too
> stringent to be economically feasible.  One example would be in the
> Commercial Fire Alarm industry.

There are 2 things working here:
1) The principle. The ADA sets out the principle that there shouldn't be
reduced access to people based on their disabilities. Because it was
written in advance of the level of Internet services we have today, it
doesn't mention them. Logically, they should be included by the spirit of
the law, but this hasn't yet been fully tested in the US courts.
2) The letter. The other question is "What does it mean to be accessible in
web terms?" Again, there's no firm court ruling as yet. However, the
choices are compliance with
a) Section 508 rules to the letter
b) WAI guidelines to a specified level to the letter, most probably level A
(the 'musts'), with demonstrated effort on the higher levels
c) Something else, defined from scratch.

I would strongly anticipate that (a) or (b) will be chosen. Given that, I'd
make my sites absolutely compliant to 508 and WAI-A, and do my best on the
remaining WAI-AA and -AAAs, and document it. Should my sites be chosen as a
test case (and I've worked on sites which were high-profile enough to be
candidates), I have all the documentation to get the case thrown out. Which
is what you want. Settling out of court is expensive in both compensation
and legal fees.

Cheers
Martin




--------------------- End of message text --------------------

PLEASE NOTE THAT IBM recently completed its acquisition of
PricewaterhouseCoopers' global management consulting and information
technology services business, PwC Consulting.  As a result, PwC Consulting
is no longer a part of the PricewaterhouseCoopers network of firms, and is
now a part of the IBM Global Services business unit.  Accordingly, all
references to PwC Consulting or PwCC in this document should be deemed to
be references to IBM Global Services.

IBM (including IBM Global Services) and PricewaterhouseCoopers are not the
same organisation, and neither governs or is affiliated with the other, or
any
affiliate, subsidiary or division of the other.  The sender is neither a
partner in,
nor employee of PricewaterhouseCoopers and is now an employee of, and
acting for, IBM.
_________________________________________________________________





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 07:54:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 07:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEFNDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEGBDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

ok PostCast is great, if you want to send one email !  Using a php script with
MySQL and PostCast Server as the SMTP does not work.  This is on a local machine
Win98.  What it appears to be doing is sending out the first email in the DB and
only the first mail and then just freezes!  Is there something to overcome this
or am I right about PostCast SMTP Server?

Are there any free SMPT servers that would not do this?

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Thu Oct 10 08:47:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFED@fsjubj09>

>One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
>Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
>http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
>
>Anybody know about this guy and his site?

I just have to chime in on this. I have a great deal of respect for Philip.
He's a computer science professor (formerly at MIT, not sure if he's still
there) and an avid photographer. He built photo.net as a way to get other
photographers together.

To me he embodies one of the great things about the Internet: he gives back
to the community. Photo.net is probably what he is most proud of because it
is a labor of love, but he has also built several services that anybody
could use for threaded discussion, collaboration, link management, mailing
list management, traffic analysis and server uptime reporting. All around
1995. They are legacy now, but he is considering upgrading them someday.

Not sure if it's still the case, but several years back his site ran
entirely from his home, with hardware donated by HP and Sun. According to
photo.net he now serves 34 million pages a month, 1 million unique, 135,000
registered users, $10 million annually in photo equipment auctions, etc.
Somewhere else on his site I remember seeing stats of something like 20
requests per second on average to his RDBMS.

He's not a designer, he's an engineer. And a very, very good one at that.
I'd call him the least-well-known hero of the Internet.

-dave

PS Here are other things he's written. Every book he writes, "published" or
not, is available on his web site for free. Period.

His resume  (you will be impressed)
http://philip.greenspun.com/narcissism/resume-list

Internet Application Workbook  (How to build "things like Amazon")
http://philip.greenspun.com/internet-application-workbook/

Travels with Samantha  (Boston to Alaska and back with his dog, very
beautiful and sad story)
http://www.photo.net/samantha/

SQL for Web Nerds
http://philip.greenspun.com/sql/


From CDitty at email.usps.gov  Thu Oct 10 08:52:02 2002
From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Ditty, Chris - Memphis, TN)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:52:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
Message-ID: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F783630554E54B@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>

Hello all, Happy soggy Memphis morning to ya.

I am having a heck of a time troubleshooting a meta refresh problem.  It works
on our development and staging servers, but not in production.  It is the same
code/page on each machine.  Anyone have any idea what could be preventing the
meta refresh from running?

The machine it is happening on is an NT machine running IIS5.  The development
and staging are IIS4.  To throw another catch into this problem, another
co-worker has the same problem on our Unix boxes just in reverse.  Works in
production, but not in development.

Anyone have ANY ideas on what can be preventing this to run?

<META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605; url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">

Thanks

CDitty


From john at evolt.org.uk  Thu Oct 10 08:55:00 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:55:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
In-Reply-To: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F783630554E54B@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAMEMNCKAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ditty, Chris -
% Memphis, TN
% Sent: 10 October 2002 13:47
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
%
% <META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605;
% url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">

Have you waited 3605 seconds to verify that it's not
running?  It's (counts thumbs) an hour and 5 seconds.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From AWilliams at rfbd.org  Thu Oct 10 08:58:01 2002
From: AWilliams at rfbd.org (Williams, Alice)
Date: Thu Oct 10 08:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
Message-ID: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C26C@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>

Hello everyone,

Is it worth submitting to search engines?  I have been approached my numerous friends with the question on how do they get their web site known, most of them have paid to have their web site listed in "major" search engines but is this cost a racket?  There was a time when listing your search engine was free?  So I begin to do some investigation on how much it costs and how you submit, if you submit to one then a user that uses another search engine wouldn't get your listing.  I know there are the companies that claim to submit to hundreds of thousands of search engines but why are there hundreds of thousands of search engines????
Thanks,
Alice


From futureweb at macmail.com  Thu Oct 10 09:08:00 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C26C@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>
Message-ID: <B9CB47EF.1D6%futureweb@macmail.com>

Hi I did a lot of research on search engines about 5 months ago.

Here's what I found:

http://192.168.0.84/search_engines/submit.html

Please ignore the bad markup/repetition etc.

Its a constantly changing area but the links included will keep you up to
date.

Ben


On 10/10/02 3:57 pm, "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Is it worth submitting to search engines?  I have been approached my numerous
> friends with the question on how do they get their web site known, most of
> them have paid to have their web site listed in "major" search engines but is
> this cost a racket?  There was a time when listing your search engine was
> free?  So I begin to do some investigation on how much it costs and how you
> submit, if you submit to one then a user that uses another search engine
> wouldn't get your listing.  I know there are the companies that claim to
> submit to hundreds of thousands of search engines but why are there hundreds
> of thousands of search engines????
> Thanks,
> Alice

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From AWilliams at rfbd.org  Thu Oct 10 09:17:01 2002
From: AWilliams at rfbd.org (Williams, Alice)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
Message-ID: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C26D@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>

--
Hi Ben, I couldn't open you page???


	-----Original Message-----
	From: Benjer [mailto:futureweb at macmail.com]
	Sent: Thu 10/10/2002 9:06 AM
	To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
	Cc:
	Subject: Re: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines



	Hi I did a lot of research on search engines about 5 months ago.

	Here's what I found:

	http://192.168.0.84/search_engines/submit.html

	Please ignore the bad markup/repetition etc.

	Its a constantly changing area but the links included will keep you up to
	date.

	Ben


	On 10/10/02 3:57 pm, "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org> wrote:

	> Hello everyone,
	>
	> Is it worth submitting to search engines?  I have been approached my numerous
	> friends with the question on how do they get their web site known, most of
	> them have paid to have their web site listed in "major" search engines but is
	> this cost a racket?  There was a time when listing your search engine was
	> free?  So I begin to do some investigation on how much it costs and how you
	> submit, if you submit to one then a user that uses another search engine
	> wouldn't get your listing.  I know there are the companies that claim to
	> submit to hundreds of thousands of search engines but why are there hundreds
	> of thousands of search engines????
	> Thanks,
	> Alice

	<!------------------------
	benjer at macmail.com
	------------------------->


	--
	For unsubscribe and other options, including
	the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
	http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
[ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]


From john at evolt.org.uk  Thu Oct 10 09:18:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB47EF.1D6%futureweb@macmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAMEMOCKAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Benjer
% Sent: 10 October 2002 14:06
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: Re: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
%
% http://192.168.0.84/search_engines/submit.html

That's a private IP address.  No-one outside your
building can see it.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From futureweb at macmail.com  Thu Oct 10 09:24:02 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:24:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C26D@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>
Message-ID: <B9CB4B92.1DC%futureweb@macmail.com>

Sorry peeps I can't use the real address here so I always use the IP.

www.pup-e.co.uk/search_engines/submit.html

Apols.
Ben

On 10/10/02 4:16 pm, "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org> wrote:

> --
> Hi Ben, I couldn't open you page???
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjer [mailto:futureweb at macmail.com]
> Sent: Thu 10/10/2002 9:06 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
>
>
>
> Hi I did a lot of research on search engines about 5 months ago.
>
> Here's what I found:
>
> http://192.168.0.84/search_engines/submit.html
>
> Please ignore the bad markup/repetition etc.
>
> Its a constantly changing area but the links included will keep you up to
> date.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 10/10/02 3:57 pm, "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Is it worth submitting to search engines?  I have been approached my numerous
>> friends with the question on how do they get their web site known, most of
>> them have paid to have their web site listed in "major" search engines but is
>> this cost a racket?  There was a time when listing your search engine was
>> free?  So I begin to do some investigation on how much it costs and how you
>> submit, if you submit to one then a user that uses another search engine
>> wouldn't get your listing.  I know there are the companies that claim to
>> submit to hundreds of thousands of search engines but why are there hundreds
>> of thousands of search engines????
>> Thanks,
>> Alice
>
> <!------------------------
> benjer at macmail.com
> ------------------------->
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> --
> [ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 09:26:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] reseller hosting
In-Reply-To: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAMEMOCKAA.john@evolt.org.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

can anyone recommend a UK unix reseller that allows a php script to send mail
from MySQL

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From andrew at mindstream.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 09:35:01 2002
From: andrew at mindstream.co.uk (Andrew Mottershead)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] reseller hosting
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c2706a$9021be50$010a0a64@MINDSTREKMR2TN>

Dc hosting www.dc-hosting.com

regards

Andrew Mottershead
Web Developer
Mindstream Web Design

email: andrew at mindstream.co.uk
tel: +44 (0)1743 718262
fax: +44 (0) 7092 115513
web: www.mindstream.co.uk

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
> Sent: 10 October 2002 15:29
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] reseller hosting
>
>
> can anyone recommend a UK unix reseller that allows a php
> script to send mail from MySQL
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---
>
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 03/10/2002
>
>




From web2k2 at premonition.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 09:54:01 2002
From: web2k2 at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan)
Date: Thu Oct 10 09:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] reseller hosting
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGFDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p05100306b9cb42a04e70@[192.168.8.2]>

I can recommend http://www.obantec.net/
They have better tech support than you could ever hope for. Red Hat
Linux, and no restrictions are set on what you can do cgi-wise. PHP,
Frontpage, ASP, MySQL - etc.
Website is rather messy - don't let that put you off!
I have no connection other than as a customer.

At 3:29 pm +0100 10/10/02, Andrew Maynes wrote:
>can anyone recommend a UK unix reseller that allows a php script to send mail
>from MySQL
>
>Andrew


From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Thu Oct 10 10:17:01 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEGBDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <00a901c27070$0901b4b0$0201a8c0@yoda>

> ok PostCast is great, if you want to send one email !  Using a php
script with
> MySQL and PostCast Server as the SMTP does not work.  This is on a
local machine
> Win98.  What it appears to be doing is sending out the first email in
the DB and
> only the first mail and then just freezes!  Is there something to
overcome this
> or am I right about PostCast SMTP Server?
>
> Are there any free SMPT servers that would not do this?

I use the free version of PostCast on W2K with ASP (Access and AspEmail)
with no problems sending multiples. Perhaps it's a configuration issue?

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 10:37:02 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:37:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast
In-Reply-To: <00a901c27070$0901b4b0$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGLDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

hmmm possibly, you may be right but there isn't too much to config on PostCast
Server or have I missed something really obvious?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Lonnie.Kraemer
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 04:17
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast


> ok PostCast is great, if you want to send one email !  Using a php
script with
> MySQL and PostCast Server as the SMTP does not work.  This is on a
local machine
> Win98.  What it appears to be doing is sending out the first email in
the DB and
> only the first mail and then just freezes!  Is there something to
overcome this
> or am I right about PostCast SMTP Server?
>
> Are there any free SMPT servers that would not do this?

I use the free version of PostCast on W2K with ASP (Access and AspEmail)
with no problems sending multiples. Perhaps it's a configuration issue?

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02



From futureweb at macmail.com  Thu Oct 10 10:47:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 10:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Advice please on CSS XML XHTML etc.
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFEA@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <B9CB5EDD.1ED%futureweb@macmail.com>

Thankyou for the response.

I've decided to take on board what you have said, am currently researching
to build myself a small site based on all of these specs.

I've been using Evolt, alistapart, beyondthebox, bluerobot etc.

I'm looking for links on how to incorporate accessability, css and xhtml but
also to include backward compatability nn4, ie5pc etc.

Can be as simple as "only use <strong> and <em> etc." or more advanced css
layouts. But any links resources that anyone has come across would be much
appreciated as sites like the w3.org are such a minefield.

Ben

On 9/10/02 7:00 pm, "David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil"
<David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil> wrote:

>> So to get a general idea I'd like some opinions/advice on what to spend my
>> current thirst for knowledge on, I'm stuck between:
>>
>> Following WC3 recommends and building CSS sites, getting messy with XHTML.
>
> XHTML is not messy -- in fact it is cleaned-up HTML with a slight change in
> syntax to make it readable by XML parsers.
>
> Is this important to you? Maybe, maybe not. But remember, browsers are
> becoming more and more standards-based every day. And the point of XHTML is
> that you get "forward" compatibility built in.
>
> I have a fully-dynamic site in ASP that I am redesigning, and while it's not
> technically XHTML yet (for backward compatibility purposes) I do use XHTML
> syntax (self-closing tags, etc) to make the move easier, and have already
> found one benefit to using the XHTML approach: easy migration to other
> output devices. I use a table-based layout but all styling is done via CSS.
> All navigational and "chrome" elements (global nav, masthead, site toolbar,
> main body, and footer) are given a unique ID. Before, nobody could print out
> reports or information from our site, or if they could they got page after
> page littered with toolbars and such. Now with the new approach, I just slap
> in a print stylesheet and inside it I set all the unnecessary sections to
> "display: none" and *poof* like magic I get easy printouts. Gotta love it.
> :D
>
> The idea expands to other platforms as well, i.e. if you have to develop for
> browsers and PDAs, then XHTML allows you to write the *structure* once, and
> then write a stylesheet or two for each of the target platforms, and it
> works.
>
> My site doesn't work that way, because our layout requires tables so far
> (CSS isn't quite capable of it yet, and not all browsers support what it is
> capable of) but it's going to be a heck of a lot easier when the time comes
> to migrate.
>
>> Learning ASP and incorporating more CSS into our table layouts.
>
> ASP has nothing to do with it. ASP is a server-side dynamic scripting
> framework. XHTML is client-side, ASP is server-side. The ASP generates the
> XHTML and sends it to the browser, which interprets the XHTML (and CSS, etc)
> and displays the page.
>
> Soooo... you can learn both! :D
>
> -dave

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 11:00:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Advice please on CSS XML XHTML etc.
In-Reply-To: <B9CB5EDD.1ED%futureweb@macmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJACEMBKFAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> I'm looking for links on how to incorporate accessability,
> css and xhtml but
> also to include backward compatability nn4, ie5pc etc.


we're not finished yet, but here's some to start with:

http://www.maccaws.com/wiki/?page=ResearchLinks

come join us....

--
http://www.maccaws.org/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]


From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Oct 10 11:02:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] open relay was [OT] network administration sites/lists
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF21@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Baratta [mailto:Anthony at Baratta.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [thelist] open relay was [OT] network administration
> sites/lists
>
> At 04:01 PM 10/9/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>
> >a few months ago (thanks to my negligence and inexperience)
> we had our
> >website being used as an open relay.
> >
> >anything that i can use/do to verify that the relay is
> actually closed?
>
> What SMTP Service are you using? e.g. MS? qMail? SendMail? And what
> platform? MS? *NIX?

microsft, and microsoft.

> You can test your openness via tools like these:
>
> http://www.paladincorp.com.au/unix/spam/spamlart/
>
> http://njabl.org/method.html
>      # Requested testing:
>
>      * If you would like your server tested, use telnet to
> connect to port
> 2500 on rt.njabl.org from the server you want tested. Your
> server will be
> tested and you will see the results of the test as it is run.
>
> Note: If you are not sure how your system was used as an open
> relay, you
> can telnet as instructed above and the SMTP conversation will
> display in
> real time as your system is (re)tested, demonstrating the
> combination of
> to/from addresses which result in your system acting as an open relay.
>
> http://www.openrelaycheck.com/orc/checker.asp
>
> http://eyeonsecurity.org//tools/relay.html

thanks for the links.


chris.


From tech at antix.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 11:11:01 2002
From: tech at antix.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Anthony_Johnston_._Antix?=)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ODBC Secure connection to remote database
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF21@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <NCBBJFIHPGFDKMLHHKPIEELBEPAA.tech@antix.co.uk>

I am looking for some info on how ODBC handles connecting
to a remote host securely.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks,  Ant.


From jeff at terrapinstats.com  Thu Oct 10 11:13:01 2002
From: jeff at terrapinstats.com (Jeff Schneider)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Expired Domain Checker
Message-ID: <OE45oTwpcNgPvGI6deN0000e98c@hotmail.com>

Hi,

My company is extremely paranoid!
We have a lot of external links on our website, and
they want to make sure that none of them go to porn
sites.  of course this occurs not because we put in an
bad link, but because a domain name expired and then
porn people buy it

we ALREADY have a script that checks for certain 'bad'
words in the html.  BUT in addition to that, they want
to keep a database that lists each site we link to and
the expirataion date.

wouldnt the best way to do this would be to have a
service where you could enter multiple URLs, and then
when they are about to expire have an 'alert' e-mailed
to you?

any ideas?  suggestions?

i already know there is this article here about
monitoring external links:
http://www.nwfusion.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi

but they just suggest services that check links for
bad words.  we already have a script that does that!

thanks




From jeffjulianasite at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 10 11:35:01 2002
From: jeffjulianasite at yahoo.com (Jeff Schneider)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Expired Domain Checker
Message-ID: <20021010160806.40684.qmail@web14104.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

My company is extremely paranoid!
We have a lot of external links on our website, and
they want to make sure that none of them go to porn
sites.  of course this occurs not because we put in an
bad link, but because a domain name expired and then
porn people buy it

we ALREADY have a script that checks for certain 'bad'
words in the html.  BUT in addition to that, they want
to keep a database that lists each site we link to and
the expirataion date.

wouldnt the best way to do this would be to have a
service where you could enter multiple URLs, and then
when they are about to expire have an 'alert' e-mailed
to you?

any ideas?  suggestions?

i already know there is this article here about
monitoring external links:
http://www.nwfusion.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi

but they just suggest services that check links for
bad words.  we already have a script that does that!

thanks

jeff

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From jrodell at xsinet.co.za  Thu Oct 10 11:35:17 2002
From: jrodell at xsinet.co.za (James Odell)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:35:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for programmers?
Message-ID: <NFBBLIPJELPPDEKLGHEFAEIJDLAA.jrodell@xsinet.co.za>

Hi from an old newbie

I have been following the discussion on Content Management Software with
interest. I also am just a graphic designer trying to cope with the ever
widening skills required for web sites these days. Yes, I know, I should be
bringing in others. But there's always the allure that software will do the
trick. And Windows software has allowed me to get the job done. Well,  up to
a point. But I notice that Perl, PHP and Zope are kindly open source (free)
software and I have tried to install them on my Win platform, but I'm
drowning. It's all so foreign to me.

Is there some light at the end of the tunnel? Has the Unix flavoured
software progressed to resemble Window software? I'm getting into hot water
here. I must confess I had fleeting glimpses of Unix's in action many many
years ago, so I'm really in the dark here. I bet you're chuckling as a
programmer thinking what's the problem - its easy - get on with it!

But seriously, what I really want to know is whether Perl and the others are
all command driven - do I have to type in commands for the programme to
work - like DOS or does Perl resemble Windows where I click to get things
done?

Is there someone out there who has broken the camels back and is still alive
to tell the tale? Or are these packages purely for programmers (don't worry
I have a huge respect for you guys).

Pray tell me.


James Odell
--------------------------------------------
www.ripplewebs.com

jrodell at ripplewebs.com




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 10 11:57:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu Oct 10 11:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
Message-ID: <F145TcPd3c2J0Awt5TL00018e40@hotmail.com>


>Hello all, Happy soggy Memphis morning to ya.
>
>I am having a heck of a time troubleshooting a meta refresh problem.  It
>works on our development and staging servers, but not in production.  It is
>the same code/page on each machine.  Anyone have any idea what could be
>preventing the meta refresh from running?
>
>The machine it is happening on is an NT machine running IIS5.  The
>development and staging are IIS4.  To throw another catch into this
>problem, another co-worker has the same problem on our Unix boxes just in
>reverse.  Works in production, but not in development.
>
>Anyone have ANY ideas on what can be preventing this to run?
>
><META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605;
>url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">

The server it runs on should not matter, because the META refresh is
executed by the browser. Maybe some weird characters that the server puts
into the META tag? Or maybe the delay of 3605 seconds is just too long?

Can you send a URL to the page?

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com



From lauri_lists at tharapita.com  Thu Oct 10 12:00:01 2002
From: lauri_lists at tharapita.com (Lauri Vain)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Expired Domain Checker
In-Reply-To: <20021010160806.40684.qmail@web14104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c2707e$6d2e3450$0201a8c0@tharapita>

Jeff,

> My company is extremely paranoid!

Oh goodie :)

> We have a lot of external links on our website, and they want
> to make sure that none of them go to porn sites.  of course
> this occurs not because we put in an bad link, but because a
> domain name expired and then porn people buy it

As other people will tell you, there are more elegant and more effective
ways to accomplish the very same thing and much more.

Do a link checker instead, for example, execute it regularily (daily,
once every three days, weekly, whatever - the choice is yours... just
don't overstress the remote server) and e-mail the report to the person
responsible for links. In addition to expired domain names (they will go
offline for at least several days), you will also catch offline links.

Keeping track of all domains that you have linked to, is a Bad Practice
(tm) to do what you're shooting for.

p.s. The link you sent has problems... only shows banners to me and has
a total of 17 lines of HTML code. Doesn't it have to have some query
strings or something similar?

Hope this helps!

Thanks,
Lauri



From list at zettai.net  Thu Oct 10 12:07:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C26C@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>
Message-ID: <B9CB2BC0.E784%list@zettai.net>

yes it is very much worth it but you shouldn't pay more than about 10 bucks
a year to do it. Take a look at http://SelfPromotion.com/ and if you have
any questions about the service, feel free to ask me or the list.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org>
>
> Is it worth submitting to search engines?



From Ishmael74 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 12:07:08 2002
From: Ishmael74 at aol.com (Ishmael74 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:07:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: using setTimeout()/clearTimeout() in a loop
Message-ID: <70.2471e047.2ad70d91@aol.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
hey all,

ive taken the <> of the tags.. so hopefully this is considered plain text..
if not sorry.
thought i might see if you could help me here on something trivial, and
not-so-useful.
basically...ive been coding javascript for about a month as i build my first
website... and i'm going through a book that gave me this exercise. simple
enough i thought. its based on the setTimeout() / clearTimeout() methods.
here's what the exercise says to do:

                               int the  <head> section create a function that
                               displays a message in the status bar three
times,
                               clearing it between each time it is displayed.
each time
                               the message is shown, it should be visible for
400
                               milliseconds and and remain invisible for 200.
when the
                               flashing is done, the message should be
visible
                               in the status bar. the function should be
called in
                              <body onLoad="myFunction()">

knowing that these are automatic methods that can't be manipulated... i tried
to use a counter that didnt work... it does nothing in the code now.. i tried
to use it in a if statement but i get errors and the giant for loop doesnt
work either. i don't really want anything to blink on a page but its the
principle of understanding how to manipulate set/clearTimeout(). they only
way i could control set and clear was to create a button, but as i said, this
exercise seems to want an automatic process. sorry to trouble you with this
and thanks for taking the time if you decide to try it out.

thanks,

wyatt

SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript"

// USE THIS CODE BLOCK FOR SCRIPTS PUT IN THE <HEAD> SECTION

//window.document.write("your current url: " + window.location);

var msg = "hello there, i'm here";
var i = 1;
counter = 0;
function flashStat()
{
for(i=0; i<3; i++)
{
  if(i)
  {
    status = msg;
    i = 0;
    counter = counter++;
  }
  else
  {
    status = " ";
    i = 1;
    clearTimeout("flashStat()", 200);
    return true;
  }

id = setTimeout("flashStat()", 4000);
return true;
}
}
status = msg;

/SCRIPT
/HEAD

BODY onLoad="myFunct"


From list at zettai.net  Thu Oct 10 12:11:00 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for
	programmers?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLIPJELPPDEKLGHEFAEIJDLAA.jrodell@xsinet.co.za>
Message-ID: <B9CB2CB0.E785%list@zettai.net>

I would say Perl and PHP are pretty much command-driven as you say. These,
like Python, C, etc, are programming languages, so you gotta know the
language to write it. That said, there are many packages out there written
in these languages that are pointy-clicky.

Zope is one of them and is my favorite. You can do a lot with Zope just
through the web-based interface and without having to know much in the way
of programming languages. PHP has Midgard which is similar, tho i don't know
it as well as well as smaller stuff like PostNuke, etc etc.

Don't give up on expanding your skills into this area. The road is long and
hard but keep pushing and things will start to make sense. :)

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: "James Odell" <jrodell at xsinet.co.za>
>
> But seriously, what I really want to know is whether Perl and the others are
> all command driven - do I have to type in commands for the programme to
> work - like DOS or does Perl resemble Windows where I click to get things
> done?
>
> Is there someone out there who has broken the camels back and is still alive
> to tell the tale? Or are these packages purely for programmers (don't worry
> I have a huge respect for you guys).



From CDitty at email.usps.gov  Thu Oct 10 12:11:17 2002
From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Ditty, Chris - Memphis, TN)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:11:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: (thelist) Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another..
Message-ID: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F783630550B604@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>

-----Original Message-----
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <SMTP:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:54 PM
To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <SMTP:thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: (thelist) Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another..

<snip>
>
><META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605;
>url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">

The server it runs on should not matter, because the META refresh is
executed by the browser. Maybe some weird characters that the server puts
into the META tag? Or maybe the delay of 3605 seconds is just too long?

Can you send a URL to the page?

ppk


The 3600 seconds is not an issue with this.  It works fine on development
machines, just production.  I have recreated the same problem with using 5
seconds.

Unfortunately, this is an internal application, so no one can get to it.

Chris


From listas at areaestrategica.com  Thu Oct 10 12:21:01 2002
From: listas at areaestrategica.com (Gustavo Arizpe)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Opening Windows files with BBEdit
Message-ID: <5C519ADA-DC75-11D6-9725-0003931C4202@areaestrategica.com>

Hi all,

How should I open Windows-created html Files using BBEdit, so the ASCII
characters I haven't translated into html entities display correctly?

Thanks,

Gustavo
http://www.area.com.mx/estrategica



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Oct 10 12:26:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] open relay was [OT] network administration
  sites/lists
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF21@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010101917.02993d40@baratta.com>

At 09:00 AM 10/10/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:
> >
> > What SMTP Service are you using? e.g. MS? qMail? SendMail? And what
> > platform? MS? *NIX?
>
>microsft, and microsoft.

The biggest part of securing MS SMTP is to make sure you revoke all access
be default, and only allow specific IPs access to the Service. For Web
Servers, which only need outgoing SMTP services, I only allow localhost
(127.0.0.1) and the server's own IP(s). This gives the local programs
access to SMTP, but denies remote servers access to relay through the server.

--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Thu Oct 10 12:32:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
References: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F783630554E54B@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>
Message-ID: <3DA5B962.7020102@webtuitive.com>

Ditty, Chris - Memphis, TN wrote:

> Anyone have ANY ideas on what can be preventing this to run?
>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605; url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">
                             ^
I don't know why you'd see the variation between systems, but I
don't believe that semi-colon after "refresh" belongs there ...

FWIW!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
                   ---                      ---
                   ---     dream.  code.    ---





From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Thu Oct 10 12:36:05 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:36:05 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP/VBScript question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFF6@fsjubj09>

Is it possible to return an object ByVal from a function, instead of ByRef?

I know you can pass them into a function ByVal or ByRef, but I specifically
want to return an object ByVal.

Alternately, is it possible to retrieve an object ByVal when using a Set
statement, e.g. "Set obj = MyClass.Recordset" returns a copy of "Recordset"
instead of a reference to it? When MyClass is destroyed, so is the reference
internally to Recordset, and if Recordset is destroyed, the reference set
with obj is destroyed as well.

Thanks,
-dave


From mike at nthwave.net  Thu Oct 10 12:43:01 2002
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Opening Windows files with BBEdit
References: <5C519ADA-DC75-11D6-9725-0003931C4202@areaestrategica.com>
Message-ID: <3DA5BBF2.A0A0060B@nthwave.net>

The best solution is to have the characters encoded correctly in the
source (Win) files. If not encoded, they will likely show up wrong on some
browsers/platforms.
BBEdit isn't able to an automatic conversion or encoding.

Gustavo Arizpe wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How should I open Windows-created html Files using BBEdit, so the ASCII
> characters I haven't translated into html entities display correctly?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gustavo
> http://www.area.com.mx/estrategica
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--

mike[at]nthwave.net




From tech at antix.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 12:47:01 2002
From: tech at antix.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Anthony_Johnston_._Antix?=)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP/VBScript question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFF6@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <NCBBJFIHPGFDKMLHHKPIEELJEPAA.tech@antix.co.uk>

have you looked at recordset.clone?

Other objects are always referenced,  and not
destroyed until all references are freed.

Ant.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil
Sent: 10 October 2002 18:36
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ASP/VBScript question


Is it possible to return an object ByVal from a function, instead of ByRef?

I know you can pass them into a function ByVal or ByRef, but I specifically
want to return an object ByVal.

Alternately, is it possible to retrieve an object ByVal when using a Set
statement, e.g. "Set obj = MyClass.Recordset" returns a copy of "Recordset"
instead of a reference to it? When MyClass is destroyed, so is the reference
internally to Recordset, and if Recordset is destroyed, the reference set
with obj is destroyed as well.

Thanks,
-dave
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From CDitty at email.usps.gov  Thu Oct 10 12:54:00 2002
From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Ditty, Chris - Memphis, TN)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: (thelist) Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another..
Message-ID: <70EDC551EFE5684B9B3C8E5890F7836305504BB1@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>

Well, I just tried that.  Worked once, but when I tried again.  No go.  I looked
up the proper use of it at
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/head/meta.html and tried that example.
Worked once.  Not a second time.

Wierd.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: "Hassan Schroeder" <SMTP:hassan at webtuitive.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:31 PM
To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <SMTP:thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: (thelist) Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another..


Ditty, Chris - Memphis, TN wrote:

> Anyone have ANY ideas on what can be preventing this to run?
>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"; content="3605; url=http://IP_ADDRESS/Index.htm">
                             ^
I don't know why you'd see the variation between systems, but I
don't believe that semi-colon after "refresh" belongs there ...

FWIW!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
                   ---                      ---
                   ---     dream.  code.    ---



--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Oct 10 12:55:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Oct 10 12:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP/VBScript question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFF6@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010104626.0299f800@baratta.com>

At 10:35 AM 10/10/2002, David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
>Is it possible to return an object ByVal from a function, instead of ByRef?

I think this is what you want, not sure. My VBS Skills are porous when it
comes to understanding completely how the under the cover works.

     Set objDBConn = NewDBConn()

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'' NewDBConn Function
'' Required Info Passed to Function:
''      None
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Function NewDBConn()
     Set objNewDBConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
     objNewDBConn.Open(DB_Connect_String)
     Set NewDBConn = objNewDBConn
     Set objNewDBConn = Nothing
End Function

>Alternately, is it possible to retrieve an object ByVal when using a Set
>statement, e.g. "Set obj = MyClass.Recordset" returns a copy of "Recordset"
>instead of a reference to it? When MyClass is destroyed, so is the reference
>internally to Recordset, and if Recordset is destroyed, the reference set
>with obj is destroyed as well.

Because the Connection Object is the base on which you create record sets,
I don't think you can have a record set "stand alone". There are such
things as disconnected record sets, but I've never used them.

If you want to work with Record Sets without having to keep the record set
object open and if your return results are "small" suck all the results
into an array using GetRows function.

Hope that helps.

--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Thu Oct 10 13:01:00 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:01:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20021010154041.6533AC05F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010135801.00a9fe88@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

At 10:40 AM 10/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone shed a little illuminating light on what MTA is?  in between my
>reading :)


It stands for Mail Transfer Agent.  Sendmail is the most popular (and free
for everything except Windows OS).

-benjamin



From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Thu Oct 10 13:10:00 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Meta Refresh does on one, but not on another....
In-Reply-To: <20021010170347.14B7DC06D@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010140515.00abd248@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

At 12:03 PM 10/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
The server it runs on should not matter, because the META refresh is
executed by the browser. Maybe some weird characters that the server puts
into the META tag? Or maybe the delay of 3605 seconds is just too long?


3605 seconds?  That's just over an hour (1.0013.. hours to be precise)  I
had to double check that it was in fact seconds but yep.. that's one heck
of a delay. =)



From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Thu Oct 10 13:18:00 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGLDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003f01c27089$3ff0c790$0201a8c0@yoda>

> hmmm possibly, you may be right but there isn't too much to config on
PostCast
> Server or have I missed something really obvious?

IIRC, two issues I had some difficulty with was the port and the "HELO"
handshake. You might try experimenting with these using something other
than the defaults. It's difficult to make suggestions as I don't know
your setup.

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 13:25:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021010135801.00a9fe88@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEHGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

How come it works for the first record in the databse and not the remaining
records?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Benjamin
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 06:59
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows


At 10:40 AM 10/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone shed a little illuminating light on what MTA is?  in between my
>reading :)


It stands for Mail Transfer Agent.  Sendmail is the most popular (and free
for everything except Windows OS).

-benjamin

--
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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 13:26:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast
In-Reply-To: <003f01c27089$3ff0c790$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEHGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

do you think it is definately the PostCast Server setting I need to change?

Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Lonnie.Kraemer
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 07:17
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] mail() on windows +PostCast


> hmmm possibly, you may be right but there isn't too much to config on
PostCast
> Server or have I missed something really obvious?

IIRC, two issues I had some difficulty with was the port and the "HELO"
handshake. You might try experimenting with these using something other
than the defaults. It's difficult to make suggestions as I don't know
your setup.

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Thu Oct 10 13:52:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Thu Oct 10 13:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP/VBScript question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFF7@fsjubj09>

>have you looked at recordset.clone?

This works perfectly. Thanks!

-dave


From poliva at cox.net  Thu Oct 10 14:42:01 2002
From: poliva at cox.net (Pablo Oliva)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] help with mysql query / logic
Message-ID: <000001c27094$f51e4e70$6a6c0444@cr8tivewerk>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I have 2 tables, one with job ad information, and a second one with the
locations that this ad applies to.

When a person queries the job ad table with their criteria, I would also
have to query the location table to see if the location that they chose
applies to this ad.  I am not sure how to construct the sql query
though, or if there is a better way to set this up.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.
--



From poliva at cox.net  Thu Oct 10 14:48:01 2002
From: poliva at cox.net (Pablo Oliva)
Date: Thu Oct 10 14:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: [PHP] help with mysql query / logic
In-Reply-To: <000001c27094$f51e4e70$6a6c0444@cr8tivewerk>
Message-ID: <000801c27095$d60f9a60$6a6c0444@cr8tivewerk>

Please disregard, I think that I figured it out.



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Thu Oct 10 15:11:00 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEHGDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DA5DEB4.2030106@star-chaser.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> How come it works for the first record in the databse and not the remaining
> records?
>
> Andrew

Did you write the mail function to loop through all the names?


Gary




--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From marcot at inicode.com  Thu Oct 10 15:12:00 2002
From: marcot at inicode.com (Marco Tabini)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:12:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: [PHP] help with mysql query / logic
In-Reply-To: <000001c27094$f51e4e70$6a6c0444@cr8tivewerk>
References: <000001c27094$f51e4e70$6a6c0444@cr8tivewerk>
Message-ID: <1034278496.22516.234.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Can you perhaps post the structure of your tables? That would make it
easier to help (at least for me)


On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 15:40, Pablo Oliva wrote:
> I have 2 tables, one with job ad information, and a second one with the
> locations that this ad applies to.
>
> When a person queries the job ad table with their criteria, I would also
> have to query the location table to see if the location that they chose
> applies to this ad.  I am not sure how to construct the sql query
> though, or if there is a better way to set this up.
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 15:14:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Oct 10 15:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows
In-Reply-To: <3DA5DEB4.2030106@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEHLDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I didn't look I just presumed it would do that as the script was purposely
written to send all the emails from the DB!

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 09:10
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: mail() on Windows


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> How come it works for the first record in the databse and not the remaining
> records?
>
> Andrew

Did you write the mail function to loop through all the names?


Gary




--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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From AWilliams at rfbd.org  Thu Oct 10 16:41:01 2002
From: AWilliams at rfbd.org (Williams, Alice)
Date: Thu Oct 10 16:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines
Message-ID: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674679B2625@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>

Thanks George, I'll look into that.
Alice

-----Original Message-----
From: george donnelly [mailto:list at zettai.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:06 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Submitting to Search Engines


yes it is very much worth it but you shouldn't pay more than about 10 bucks
a year to do it. Take a look at http://SelfPromotion.com/ and if you have
any questions about the service, feel free to ask me or the list.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: "Williams, Alice" <AWilliams at rfbd.org>
>
> Is it worth submitting to search engines?

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
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From TonyLight at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Oct 10 16:45:01 2002
From: TonyLight at blueyonder.co.uk (Tony Light)
Date: Thu Oct 10 16:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Detecting keypresses with Javascript
Message-ID: <001401c270a6$a9ea93c0$777ba8c0@athlon>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
A little problemette has caused me a bit of a headache.
I can detect most keypresses using the Javascript window.event.keyCode property.
There are also a few more specific properties that detect whether modifier keys such as Control, Shift and Alt are being pressed at the same time.

What has eluded me is how to detect cursor keys, delete, insert, home, end, Page Up and Down, Fn keys, etc.
None of these appear to return a value for keyCode.

Is there a way of detecting when these keys are pressed?

TIA
    Tony.




--



From Matt_Mozer at intuit.com  Thu Oct 10 16:58:01 2002
From: Matt_Mozer at intuit.com (Mozer, Matt)
Date: Thu Oct 10 16:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CFmail Question
Message-ID: <1EA77C7A25665C4E95B0E00AEB1A90A2A07186@daex02.lscsoft.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I have a question regarding the From Address in the Cfmail tag.

<cfmail from="Intuit Confidential"
   to="matt_mozer at intuit.com"
   subject="Blah Blah" type="html">

However, when I receive the email. The From outputs
"System at MyServerName.com"

Anyone know why it's using the Web Server name like that?

Thanks
--



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Oct 10 17:18:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Oct 10 17:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CFmail Question
In-Reply-To: <1EA77C7A25665C4E95B0E00AEB1A90A2A07186@daex02.lscsoft.com>
References: <1EA77C7A25665C4E95B0E00AEB1A90A2A07186@daex02.lscsoft.com>
Message-ID: <1905486148.20021010181736@interlog.com>

On Thursday, October 10, 2002, 5:35:57 PM, you said:
> <cfmail from="Intuit Confidential"
>    to="matt_mozer at intuit.com"
>    subject="Blah Blah" type="html">

> However, when I receive the email. The From outputs
> "System at MyServerName.com"

> Anyone know why it's using the Web Server name like that?

I would suspect that it might be because the 'from:' is
expecting a valid e-mail address such as

   my.e-mail at mydomain.com (Intuit Confidential)

or

   "Intuit Confidential" <my.e-mail at mydomain.com>

or

   my.e-mail at mydomain.com

Unless what you meant to use was  #Intuit Confidential# as a
variable name. If so, consider removing the space for the
name.

--
Frank Marion
Tel. 416 825 7488
framar at interlog.com
http://www.frankmarion.com



From Ishmael74 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 18:17:01 2002
From: Ishmael74 at aol.com (Ishmael74 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 18:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: using setTimeout()/clearTimeout() in a loop
Message-ID: <bb.27c09700.2ad76465@aol.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
hello to who is reading this,

first, thaks for continuing to read this. ive taken the <> of the tags.. so
hopefully this is considered plain text.. if not sorry. thought i might see
if you could help me here on something trivial, and not-so-useful.
basically...ive been coding javascript for about a month as i build my first
website... and i'm going through a book that gave me this exercise. simple
enough i thought. its based on the setTimeout() / clearTimeout() methods.
here's what the exercise says to do:

                             int the  <head> section create a function that
                             displays a message in the status bar three times,
                             clearing it between each time it is displayed.
each time
                             the message is shown, it should be visible for
400
                             milliseconds and and remain invisible for 200.
when the
                             flashing is done, the message should be visible
                             in the status bar. the function should be called
in
                            <body onLoad="myFunction()">

knowing that these are automatic methods that can't be manipulated... i tried
to use a counter that didnt work... it does nothing in the code now.. i tried
to use it in a if statement but i get errors and the giant for loop doesnt
work either. i don't really want anything to blink on a page but its the
principle of understanding how to manipulate set/clearTimeout(). they only
way i could control set and clear was to create a button, but as i said, this
exercise seems to want an automatic process. sorry to trouble you with this
and thanks for taking the time if you decide to try it out.

thanks,

wyatt

SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript"

// USE THIS CODE BLOCK FOR SCRIPTS PUT IN THE <HEAD> SECTION

//window.document.write("your current url: " + window.location);

var msg = "hello there, i'm here";
var i = 1;
counter = 0;
function flashStat()
{
for(i=0; i<3; i++)
{
if(i)
{
  status = msg;
  i = 0;
  counter = counter++;
}
else
{
  status = " ";
  i = 1;
  clearTimeout("flashStat()", 200);
  return true;
}

id = setTimeout("flashStat()", 4000);
return true;
}
}
status = msg;

/SCRIPT
/HEAD

BODY onLoad="myFunct


From Gary at star-chaser.com  Thu Oct 10 18:30:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Thu Oct 10 18:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Detecting keypresses with Javascript
References: <001401c270a6$a9ea93c0$777ba8c0@athlon>
Message-ID: <3DA60D6B.5030801@star-chaser.com>

Tony Light wrote:

>
> Is there a way of detecting when these keys are pressed?
>
> TIA
>     Tony.

This page should help you.

  http://www.pbwizard.com/Standards/GetKeys.htm

Gary




--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Oct 10 19:21:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Oct 10 19:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF:  Clearing a cached query?
Message-ID: <3412832492.20021010202002@interlog.com>

<!--- A cached query --->
<cfquery [...] cachedwithin="#CreateTimeSpan(0,0,30,0)#">

</cfquery>

I'm using the CachedWithin attribute for some queries that
are rarely updated. I'd like to be able to flush the cache
when the admin updates updates a record. The query is on
made on the user side, the update is a completely unrelated
process.

I've looked at cfflush and cfcache, and don't quite 'get'
how to use them in this particular situation. Can someone
suggest a method?

Thanks.


--
Frank Marion
Tel. 416 825 7488
framar at interlog.com
http://www.frankmarion.com



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Thu Oct 10 19:28:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Thu Oct 10 19:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript traps - need input for article
In-Reply-To: <2563EFDB68120F48B9F511B7957504361B0DF8@OTT-VSVR2.corelcorp
 .corel.ics>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021010224539.00b2bc18@pop3.bip.net>

At 14:44 2002-10-09 -0400, Peter Barrett wrote:
>Hm. I don't suppose this counts as an expert tip, but I'm interested in
>what wisdom others on the list have to pass on, so I'll try a couple to
>start the ball rolling:

Good initiative. I fear it didn't catch on, though.

>         1. Simplicity. JS developers worry about character count (code
> size), and runtime evaluation as performance killers.

Actually, often slightly larger code can increase performance. Always using
the semi-colon for statement terminator is one such thing, or at least was
in the dasys of earlier, less optimised JavaScript engines.

The developers rather worry about two things. Loading time, where size
matters, and running time, where performance matters.

BTW, lovely example of what not to do you had there. I'll save it in my
quotes file...

>         2. Functions are Data. While this principle can be used to easily
> create tons of impossible-to-maintain self-modifying code, this principle
> also allows for reflection (via the for/in loop, or closer to the metal,
> inspecting the actual string that defines a function) and, as I
> discovered, a great way to add metrics gathering.
>
>         For example, when asked to improve the performance of the JS
> framework that I'm maintaining, I wrote a small module that, at runtime,
> gathers up all of the user-defined functions, and redefines them with
> calls to logging facilities to each function. One sweep of use (very
> slow, of course), and you have metrics on which functions are called most
> often, when, *relative* timing (not as good as absolute, as allthose
> debug calls throw it off, but still useful), return values, etc.
>         This is a pretty neat feature, because I don't need to add all of
> those debug statements by hand (~10K lines of JavaScript in total on this
> site/webservice), which would need to come out before deployment anyway.
> Sure it runs terribly slowly, but it's for debug, so who cares? Now I can
> just include the file with other JS on any page I want to test... No
> maintaining any extra script. I found a few bottlenecks I hadn't
> suspected, I don't have to maintain the modified code - it gets tossed
> each time, and it's useful to any JS package that my team writes in the
> future. Some of the best code re-use I've ever gotten.

Actually you go over my head with this. Would you care to explain more in
detail what it does, so that I might understand the brilliance of it?

// Liorean



From dragon-vision at comcast.net  Thu Oct 10 19:35:01 2002
From: dragon-vision at comcast.net (Dragon Vision Design)
Date: Thu Oct 10 19:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Detecting keypresses with Javascript
In-Reply-To: <3DA60D6B.5030801@star-chaser.com>
References: <001401c270a6$a9ea93c0$777ba8c0@athlon>
 <3DA60D6B.5030801@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b02b9cbcae8bf4d@[68.35.112.212]>

Funny page it does not come up on the Mac in IE5, Opera 5 or iCab 2.8.2

At 7:29 PM -0400 10/10/02, Gary Bland wrote:
>Tony Light wrote:
>
>>
>>Is there a way of detecting when these keys are pressed?
>>
>>TIA
>>     Tony.
>
>This page should help you.
>
>  http://www.pbwizard.com/Standards/GetKeys.htm
>
>Gary
>


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens Webmaster Dragon Vision Design

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Thu Oct 10 20:17:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF:  Clearing a cached query?
References: <3412832492.20021010202002@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c270c3$96f35be0$6601a8c0@jakibyard>

Frank,

I do something like this in my Application template:

 <cfscript>
 querycache = CreateTimeSpan(0,0,30,0);

 if(structKeyExists(url,"querycache") AND url.querycache eq 'flush')
    querycache = CreateTimeSpan(0,0,0,0);
</cfscript>

set a variable to the regular cache value, create an if that is triggered by
an incoming url variable, like
yoursite.com?querycache=flush
if the url.querycache value exists, and is "flush" set the querycache to 0.

then use app.querycache in your query tags:

<cfquery [...] cachedwithin="#querycache#">


good luck,

nagrom


>
> <!--- A cached query --->
> <cfquery [...] cachedwithin="#CreateTimeSpan(0,0,30,0)#">
>
> </cfquery>
>
> I'm using the CachedWithin attribute for some queries that
> are rarely updated. I'd like to be able to flush the cache
> when the admin updates updates a record. The query is on
> made on the user side, the update is a completely unrelated
> process.
>
> I've looked at cfflush and cfcache, and don't quite 'get'
> how to use them in this particular situation. Can someone
> suggest a method?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Frank Marion
> Tel. 416 825 7488
> framar at interlog.com
> http://www.frankmarion.com
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From techwatcher at accesswriters.com  Thu Oct 10 20:30:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Carol Stein)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Could using SSI ("include") alter status of visited link?
Message-ID: <E17zoc6-00026P-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi, All --

It seems to me that some time back, when I was testing some of the sites I've been creating or revising this summer, I had the CSS for links, visited, and hover links working properly. Now, however, the color of all links always remains the link/hover color; it never takes on the visited link color. Yesterday I noticed someone (either in this list or the CSS list) had ordered their CSS file to put hover first, and I updated my CSS files (in a couple sites) in case I had the cascade backwards, but my tests show I still have no use of visited link color.

As it happens, in pretty much all sites I've taken to using include virtual statements after a certain stage of development, and almost always the nav-bar (usually unordered list of links, styled without bullets) is a major part of the included file. Does having the navbar (links) brought in within SSI refresh them, such that I'll never see a visited link color?

Sorry if this sounds incomprehensible... ignore it if you don't understand. Thanks to those who do, and can answer one way or another.

Cheers --
Carol

P.S. My Web host uses Linux... Apache, I believe.



From cvos at netpaths.net  Thu Oct 10 20:45:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20021010154059.21F13C061@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B9CB7AFB.7CB3%cvos@netpaths.net>

Submitting to search engines is actually an oxymoronic statement - you can
submit to directories such as yahoo and dmoz, but true search engines
(crawlers, spiders, search bots etc) find you on their own.

The only way to get listed in search engines like google is to have a link
from a site already in their database.  You can submit to their site until
you are blue in the face, and will get nowhere. Worse, it could make them
mad and penalize your site. Links and relationships are the new economy. If
you have no friends you will starve.  Make many friends, associations and
partnerships with similar strong businesses/websites and you will go far.


You can read more here

http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/newthread.php3?s=&action=newthread&foru
mid=26



On 10/10/02 8:40 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

> Is it worth submitting to search engines?  I have been approached my numerous
> friends with the question on how do they get their web site known, most of
> them have paid to have their web site listed in "major" search engines but is
> this cost a racket?  There was a time when listing your search engine was
> free?  So I begin to do some investigation on how much it costs and how you
> submit, if you submit to one then a user that uses another search engine
> wouldn't get your listing.  I know there are the companies that claim to
> submit to hundreds of thousands of search engines but why are there hundreds
> of thousands of search engines????
> Thanks,
> Alice




Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net/searchengines/
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Thu Oct 10 20:52:01 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (lists at thinkbigideas.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 20:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB7AFB.7CB3%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAIEEHDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

My understanding is also that Google pulls from dmoz, as well,
and being listed in dmoz is a good entry point to Google. I
recently had a client who I listed in dmoz, and after several
weeks (however long it takes to get up in dmoz), she was soon
on Google. And trust me, she didn't have links to any other
sites on her website.

However, the "make many friends, associations and partnerships"
advice is the absolute best way of getting up there --
particularly in Google world.








| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Cayley Vos
| Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 6:44 PM
| To: evolt
| Cc: Williams, Alice
| Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
|
|
| Submitting to search engines is actually an oxymoronic statement - you can
| submit to directories such as yahoo and dmoz, but true search engines
| (crawlers, spiders, search bots etc) find you on their own.
|
| The only way to get listed in search engines like google is to have a link
| from a site already in their database.  You can submit to their site until
| you are blue in the face, and will get nowhere. Worse, it could make them
| mad and penalize your site. Links and relationships are the new economy. If
| you have no friends you will starve.  Make many friends, associations and
| partnerships with similar strong businesses/websites and you will go far.
|
|
| You can read more here
|
| http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/newthread.php3?s=&action=newthread&foru
| mid=26



From rich at strewthmate.com  Thu Oct 10 21:12:01 2002
From: rich at strewthmate.com (rich at strewthmate.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] HTML to FDF to PDF
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011091628.03985a50@192.168.180.1>

Hello to the list,

I would like to set up a HTML form that people could fill in, then have the
results emailed to me and imported into a PDF document.

I have created the PDF form, and included the field names.  Adobe Acrobat
has the FDF format for this, but i have been unable to find any resources
or examples (preferably written in perl) that create FDF files and simply
email them.

Has anyone here had experience with FDF data generated in a HTML form,
emailed and imported into a PDF form.

I have done a little research on Adobe's site, downloaded the FDF SDK, and
before i try hack up a script (using my l337 h4><0ring skills ;-) ), has
anyone got any samples or advice on the ease of doing this.

Rich
(damn that's a lot of acronyms)



From eric at geonetric.com  Thu Oct 10 21:12:08 2002
From: eric at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:12:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP3 Posting
Message-ID: <BKEMLDOEKDPCPNKCIFKNMEIMLBAA.eric@geonetric.com>

Any way in PHP3 to POST variables, the way I can with ASPHTTP from
serverobjects.com? Have a requirement to post information programmatically.
One of my teammates found a way to do it in PHP4 - but not in 3.

Any ideas? Quick google search, but didn't find anything immediately
apparent.

Thanks in advance.

- Eric




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Oct 10 21:15:03 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:15:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Could using SSI ("include") alter status of visited
	 link?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B2@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> the CSS list) had ordered their CSS file to put hover first,
> and I updated my CSS files (in a couple sites) in case I had
> the cascade backwards, but my tests show I still have no use
> of visited link color.

First, if we can believe Eric Meyer (and I do) the correct order to maintain
specificity in the cascade is
Link
Visited
Focus (if you use it)
Hover
Active

Remembered with the Star Wars mnemonic Lord Vader Freezes Han's Arse.

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/talks/2002/cdpug/talk.html

> As it happens, in pretty much all sites I've taken to using
> include virtual statements after a certain stage of
> development, and almost always the nav-bar (usually unordered
> list of links, styled without bullets) is a major part of the
> included file. Does having the navbar (links) brought in
> within SSI refresh them, such that I'll never see a visited
> link color?

Nope. I'm pretty sure that's a function of the browser's history, but that's
out of my realm. As an example, though, my site http://EGBDF.info uses
includes for all the nav, search, and footer (plus probably some other
stuff; my dream is a site composed entirely of database queries, SSI, and
script logic, all in one page.)

So using SSI ain't what's causing it. I'll guess a browser setting. Is this
consistent across all the browsers you use? Got a URL we could play with?

joel


From webmaster at websitesupdate.com  Thu Oct 10 21:31:01 2002
From: webmaster at websitesupdate.com (Kevin)
Date: Thu Oct 10 21:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <005801c270cf$017ff760$6401a8c0@irubinmain>

> Hello, all.
>
> I recently developed a site for a restaurant:
>
> http://www.nellsrestaurant.com
>
> The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> forever to update frequently-changing data.
>
> I know there are a myriad of server-side solutions for this, but there is
no
> budget right now for developing any of them. One suggestion that has been
> made is to install a WYWIWYG html editor on his machine, teach him how to
> get the pages he wants to edit via FTP, and then re-put them when he's
done.
> Of course, he could always edit the html file itself in a text editor but
> that make me pretty nervous, given his knowledge level.
>
> I've also run across a couple of web-based content editors (WebEdit and
> editace, for example). Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> richard
> --
> Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)
> 206-378-6942
>
> --"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--

Richard,

A solution I have implemented before goes like this:

1) non-tech savvy user updates a prebuilt text file on his desktop
2) user emails the textfile to update at mydomain.com
3) perl script checks the pop account every few minutes and updates the HTML
based on the email.

That is my low budget - non savvy user solution.

--Kevin
http://www.irubin.com





From list at zettai.net  Thu Oct 10 22:07:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Thu Oct 10 22:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB7AFB.7CB3%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <B9CBB88B.E861%list@zettai.net>

Sorry to be so blunt but in my experience this is simply false. Although it
helps *alot* to be linked to, it is not the only way to get into google.
submitting has worked just fine for me.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net>
>
> The only way to get listed in search engines like google is to have a link
> from a site already in their database.  You can submit to their site until
> you are blue in the face, and will get nowhere. Worse, it could make them
> mad and penalize your site. Links and relationships are the new economy. If
> you have no friends you will starve.  Make many friends, associations and
> partnerships with similar strong businesses/websites and you will go far.



From paul at teltest.com  Thu Oct 10 22:14:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Thu Oct 10 22:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
References: <B9CBB88B.E861%list@zettai.net>
Message-ID: <3DA64293.1090908@teltest.com>

I agree, we had a site that was "brand new" (eg no outside links) and
could still get #1 and #5 listings on Google. You just need some real
obscure search keywords :p

george donnelly wrote:

>Sorry to be so blunt but in my experience this is simply false. Although it
>helps *alot* to be linked to, it is not the only way to get into google.
>submitting has worked just fine for me.
>
><-->
>george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
>Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion
>
>
>
>>From: Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net>
>>
>>The only way to get listed in search engines like google is to have a link
>>from a site already in their database.  You can submit to their site until
>>you are blue in the face, and will get nowhere. Worse, it could make them
>>mad and penalize your site. Links and relationships are the new economy. If
>>you have no friends you will starve.  Make many friends, associations and
>>partnerships with similar strong businesses/websites and you will go far.
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From joelm at citycent.com  Thu Oct 10 23:00:08 2002
From: joelm at citycent.com (Joel Morris)
Date: Thu Oct 10 23:00:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] HTML to FDF to PDF
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011091628.03985a50@192.168.180.1>
Message-ID: <FJEALHCLENOKCIBAADMNMEGAHIAA.joelm@citycent.com>

Yes, I have done this.

However, I did it in a Windows NT environment, and used the .dll's
supplied by Adobe to generate the FDF file.

My .asp script took the POST data from the HTML form, generated the
FDF file and saved it to the hard drive, sent an e-mail with the
FDF/text file as an attachment, and then when opened from the e-mail
would populate the PDF file on the client's local computer.

It was a pain to work out, but Adobe's FDF SDK is really the only
resource that I'm aware of. The .dll was for an ActiveX component that
would generate the FDF file in the proper format/syntax.

I don't know how it would be done in Perl, but let me know if I can
help further with what I did develop.

Best, Joel Morris
-------------------------------
CityCenter Co.
Website Development & Marketing
http://www.citycent.com
mailto:joelm at citycent.com




-----Original Message-----

I would like to set up a HTML form that people could fill in, then
have the
results emailed to me and imported into a PDF document.

I have created the PDF form, and included the field names.  Adobe
Acrobat
has the FDF format for this, but i have been unable to find any
resources
or examples (preferably written in perl) that create FDF files and
simply
email them.

Has anyone here had experience with FDF data generated in a HTML form,
emailed and imported into a PDF form.


Rich



From cvos at netpaths.net  Thu Oct 10 23:23:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Thu Oct 10 23:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20021011040606.987783AB2@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B9CB9FF1.7CDC%cvos@netpaths.net>

Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they work.
You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.

Remember, even posting in forums such as these, one can be exposed to
crawlers.


On 10/10/02 9:06 PM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

> Sorry to be so blunt but in my experience this is simply false. Although it
> helps *alot* to be linked to, it is not the only way to get into google.
> submitting has worked just fine for me.




Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net/searchengines/
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From Ishmael74 at aol.com  Thu Oct 10 23:38:01 2002
From: Ishmael74 at aol.com (Ishmael74 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Oct 10 23:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: JavaScript question
Message-ID: <129.18d05447.2ad7af6f@aol.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
hello to who is reading this,

first, thaks for continuing to read this. ive taken the <> of the tags.. so
hopefully this is considered plain text.. if not sorry. thought i might see
if you could help me here on something trivial, and not-so-useful.
basically...ive been coding javascript for about a month as i build my first
website... and i'm going through a book that gave me this exercise. simple
enough i thought. its based on the setTimeout() / clearTimeout() methods.
here's what the exercise says to do:

                            int the  <head> section create a function that
                            displays a message in the status bar three times,
                            clearing it between each time it is displayed.
each time
                            the message is shown, it should be visible for
400
                            milliseconds and and remain invisible for 200.
when the
                            flashing is done, the message should be visible
                            in the status bar. the function should be called
in
                           <body onLoad="myFunction()">

knowing that these are automatic methods that can't be manipulated... i tried
to use a counter that didnt work... it does nothing in the code now.. i tried
to use it in a if statement but i get errors and the giant for loop doesnt
work either. i don't really want anything to blink on a page but its the
principle of understanding how to manipulate set/clearTimeout(). they only
way i could control set and clear was to create a button, but as i said, this
exercise seems to want an automatic process. sorry to trouble you with this
and thanks for taking the time if you decide to try it out.

thanks,

wyatt

SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript"

// USE THIS CODE BLOCK FOR SCRIPTS PUT IN THE <HEAD> SECTION

//window.document.write("your current url: " + window.location);

var msg = "hello there, i'm here";
var i = 1;
counter = 0;
function flashStat()
{
for(i=0; i<3; i++)
{
if(i)
{
 status = msg;
 i = 0;
 counter = counter++;
}
else
{
 status = " ";
 i = 1;
 clearTimeout("flashStat()", 200);
 return true;
}

id = setTimeout("flashStat()", 4000);
return true;
}
}
status = msg;

/SCRIPT
/HEAD

BODY onLoad="myFunct


From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Fri Oct 11 00:11:00 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 10-OCT-02
Message-ID: <200210110510.g9B5A1sC006894@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 10-OCT-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Reviews & Links: The Meta Search Engines (Author: daniel_bazac)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/12/41694/index.html

I know what you're thinking: Google gives you such accurate results
that you don't need any other search tool. Well, let's see about
that.


Commentary & Society: Macromedia's Struggle (Author: DevilM)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/25/43431/index.html

Macromedia had to make many hard choices on the road to the top, but
was it worth it? Now that its struggle is over, the company is one of
the top players in the Web development world.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom  Fri Oct 11 00:34:01 2002
From: neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom (Neil Lee)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB9FF1.7CDC%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <B9CBCCD2.C0E4%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>

> Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they work.
> You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.
>
> Remember, even posting in forums such as these, one can be exposed to
> crawlers.

I'm going to have to agree with the others that have, well, disagreed on
this point: you don't have to be linked to for a site to appear in Google.
Their spider runs on a monthly basis (roughly between the 20th and the 25th
of the month, at least from what I can recall) and it simply spiders sites
that are already pre-existing in their DB, linked sites from the latter, and
sites that are newly submitted.

The portal I used to work for uses Google for their search results, and the
search producer gave me a long, very illuminating tour of how Google's
technology works; this is how I know this to be true.

Neil
---
Slumming at the beatnikPad : http://www.beatnikpad.com/
Working at theNonsuch: http://reblog.thenonsuch.com/
e-mail: webify at thenonsuch.com | Amit?.



From giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 00:47:01 2002
From: giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk (Michael CAREY)
Date: Fri Oct 11 00:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question
Message-ID: <003001c270e8$eb64f1a0$b63586d9@carey>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi there. I am an ASP newbie so dont bite my head off if this is a silly mistake.

My code to do a simple db update looks like this
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<%
Dim objconn, strprovider, sql
Set objconn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
strprovider = "Driver=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb); DBQ=e:\domains\elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk\user\htdocs\display\update.mdb"
objconn.Open(strprovider)

'Server Side form validation to keep our database clean
straddr = request.form("PostedBy")
strmsg= request.form("Message")
strip = request.form("IpAddr")
strday = request.form("Day")


sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES ('"&straddr&"','"&strday&"','"&strip&"','"&strmsg&"')"

objconn.Execute(sql)


'Lets redirect the user back to where they came from
Response.Redirect "thanks.htm"
%>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My database is called update with a table in it called stuff. I have four columns
PostedBy, IpAddr, Day, Message in that order.
I have this page linked into a form, from which the results are stored.
However, I keep getting the following error

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression.

/display/add.asp, line 16



I really am stuck on this one. It has taken me a long time to get my connection right but i finally have but there are still errors.



There is a test version at www.elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk/display/addit.asp

Please please please help.

Thanks in advance.

Giles Carey  giles at elementdesign.biz  www.elementdesign.biz





--



From joelm at citycent.com  Fri Oct 11 01:14:00 2002
From: joelm at citycent.com (Joel Morris)
Date: Fri Oct 11 01:14:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <003001c270e8$eb64f1a0$b63586d9@carey>
Message-ID: <FJEALHCLENOKCIBAADMNEEGEHIAA.joelm@citycent.com>

All of the data you are inserting into the DB are strings - it's most
likely that one of the fields wants a different data type.

Is your IpAddr field a number? Is your Day field a date? If so,
either/both of those could cause this error.

If that still doesn't do it, do a Response.Write("sql") to see what
the query actually looks like - it's my most common debug tool when I
can't get something to work with a database query.

Best, Joel Morris
-------------------------------
CityCenter Co.
Website Development & Marketing
http://www.citycent.com
mailto:joelm at citycent.com




-----Original Message-----
Hi there. I am an ASP newbie so dont bite my head off if this is a
silly mistake.

sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
('"&straddr&"','"&strday&"','"&strip&"','"&strmsg&"')"

objconn.Execute(sql)

My database is called update with a table in it called stuff. I have
four columns
PostedBy, IpAddr, Day, Message in that order.
I have this page linked into a form, from which the results are
stored.
However, I keep getting the following error

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in
criteria expression.

/display/add.asp, line 16

I really am stuck on this one. It has taken me a long time to get my
connection right but i finally have but there are still errors.

There is a test version at
www.elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk/display/addit.asp

Please please please help.

Thanks in advance.

Giles Carey  giles at elementdesign.biz  www.elementdesign.biz



From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Fri Oct 11 01:23:00 2002
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Fri Oct 11 01:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <003001c270e8$eb64f1a0$b63586d9@carey>
Message-ID: <000301c270ee$679ac9c0$0808810a@eagle5>

> [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type
> mismatch in criteria expression.

You've got the Data Type for one of these columns set to something other
than "text" or "memo". Fire up Access and check your db.

If it's the day field that's set to date, then this SQL should work for
you:

  sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
  ('"&straddr&"',#"&strday&"#,'"&strip&"','"&strmsg&"')"

And if the IP field is set to number, then this should work:

  sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
  ('"&straddr&"','"&strday&"',"&strip&",'"&strmsg&"')"

And if it's both:

  sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
  ('"&straddr&"',#"&strday&"#,"&strip&",'"&strmsg&"')"

If none of those work for you, let us know and we can help further! :)

HTH!
--Ken



From tech at antix.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 03:04:01 2002
From: tech at antix.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Anthony_Johnston_._Antix?=)
Date: Fri Oct 11 03:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <003001c270e8$eb64f1a0$b63586d9@carey>
Message-ID: <NCBBJFIHPGFDKMLHHKPIGENAEPAA.tech@antix.co.uk>

put spaces round the string appends '&' if you don't vb thinks
the bit before is a long (or something old vb)

so "','" & varname & "','" etc..

cheersears,  Ant.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael CAREY
Sent: 11 October 2002 06:42
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi there. I am an ASP newbie so dont bite my head off if this is a silly
mistake.

My code to do a simple db update looks like this
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
<%
Dim objconn, strprovider, sql
Set objconn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
strprovider = "Driver=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb);
DBQ=e:\domains\elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk\user\htdocs\display\update.mdb
"
objconn.Open(strprovider)

'Server Side form validation to keep our database clean
straddr = request.form("PostedBy")
strmsg= request.form("Message")
strip = request.form("IpAddr")
strday = request.form("Day")


sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
('"&straddr&"','"&strday&"','"&strip&"','"&strmsg&"')"

objconn.Execute(sql)


'Lets redirect the user back to where they came from
Response.Redirect "thanks.htm"
%>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

My database is called update with a table in it called stuff. I have four
columns
PostedBy, IpAddr, Day, Message in that order.
I have this page linked into a form, from which the results are stored.
However, I keep getting the following error

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria
expression.

/display/add.asp, line 16



I really am stuck on this one. It has taken me a long time to get my
connection right but i finally have but there are still errors.



There is a test version at
www.elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk/display/addit.asp

Please please please help.

Thanks in advance.

Giles Carey  giles at elementdesign.biz  www.elementdesign.biz





--

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 03:13:01 2002
From: keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk (Keith Underdown)
Date: Fri Oct 11 03:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problems with uploaded PHP site
Message-ID: <000201c270fe$9108c3b0$0100a8c0@underdown1>

I've just switched on PHP etc. on my private site (and paying ?4 per month
for the privilege) and uploaded some code that works locally and on a
website with another ISP. It doesn't work here though!

See www.underdowns.myby.co.uk/pride/ and try the internal links on the
right. They appear to be POSTing the right data such as
www.underdowns.myby.co.uk/pride/index.php?page_title=Contacts but the page
isn't getting rendered properly the main content pane should change. This is
consistent across Op6, IE6 and Moz and has to have  something to do with the
configuration of the server. Any ideas?

I'd appreciate any comments on the design too.

Keith
____________________________________
Keith Underdown
Q Consultants



From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Oct 11 03:37:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 03:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CBCCD2.C0E4%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>
Message-ID: <B9CC4B7F.231%futureweb@macmail.com>

I would agree, but everyone else has a major point.
For better listings/ranks google and others are relying more heavily on
"link popularity", as said you can be listed but to maintain constant high
ranks the more incoming links you have to your site the better.

On 11/10/02 7:33 am, "Neil Lee" <neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom> wrote:

>> Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they work.
>> You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.
>>
>> Remember, even posting in forums such as these, one can be exposed to
>> crawlers.
>
> I'm going to have to agree with the others that have, well, disagreed on
> this point: you don't have to be linked to for a site to appear in Google.
> Their spider runs on a monthly basis (roughly between the 20th and the 25th
> of the month, at least from what I can recall) and it simply spiders sites
> that are already pre-existing in their DB, linked sites from the latter, and
> sites that are newly submitted.
>
> The portal I used to work for uses Google for their search results, and the
> search producer gave me a long, very illuminating tour of how Google's
> technology works; this is how I know this to be true.
>
> Neil
> ---
> Slumming at the beatnikPad : http://www.beatnikpad.com/
> Working at theNonsuch: http://reblog.thenonsuch.com/
> e-mail: webify at thenonsuch.com | Amit?.

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 03:45:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Fri Oct 11 03:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for programmers?
Message-ID: <BC705DE2-DCF5-11D6-AA7E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

James wrote:

> I have been following the discussion on Content Management Software with
> interest. I also am just a graphic designer trying to cope with the ever
> widening skills required for web sites these days. Yes, I know, I
> should be
> bringing in others. But there's always the allure that software will do
> the
> trick.

And to an extent, it is an illusory allure - even with basic, static
sites, you really do need to know HTML and CSS to a much deeper than
Adobe and Macromedia sometimes claim.

> I notice that Perl, PHP and Zope are kindly open source (free)
> software and I have tried to install them on my Win platform, but I'm
> drowning. It's all so foreign to me.

PHP and Perl are different beasts to Zope. What PHP and Perl are are
low-ish level tools with which you can build a CMS. Example - Geeklog is
a CMS which is built with PHP. Once you have Geeklog basically running,
you're just needing to customise the template to look the way you want
it. Greymatter is a blog (and blogs are basic CMSs) written in Perl
which is a fairly simple install, and then you need to customise the
template again.

(Example Geeklog site: http://www.evolt.org.uk/)

But what both Geeklog and Greymatter are are very vertical CMS - you can
only do one kind of site with them. If what you want to do is that kind
of site (and Geeklog's site can be useful in *many* situations), then
you're fine. If not... you're into a *lot* of progamming work.

What Zope is is a general CMS. You can either build your own
functionality (which at the basic level of static pages to a common
template, is very easy), or you can implement some of the many vertical
products which sit on top to provide richer functionality:
http://www.zope.org/Products

Some examples, running on my home machine (so possibly a bit slow):
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/evolt_tests/index_html
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/squishdot/index_html
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/polls/test
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/tests/testwiki/test/FrontPage
(un and pw are both 'guest')

Oh, and it comes with a tutorial too:
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/tests/tutorial/examples
which you'll see that simple stuff can be achieved with a superset of
HTML - all my site (http://www.easyweb.co.uk) is produced with basic
DHTML.

The other nice thing that a good CMS will do is handle all the hard
stuff like security - essential if you've got users editing via the
web - and version control. Believe me, if your site is regularly
updated, you *will* need version control. It may be tomorrow, it may be
next year, but some day, you'll overwrite your content by mistake.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland



From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 03:46:01 2002
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Fri Oct 11 03:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for programmers?
Message-ID: <C9E22195-DCF5-11D6-AA7E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>

James wrote:

> I have been following the discussion on Content Management Software with
> interest. I also am just a graphic designer trying to cope with the ever
> widening skills required for web sites these days. Yes, I know, I
> should be
> bringing in others. But there's always the allure that software will do
> the
> trick.

And to an extent, it is an illusory allure - even with basic, static
sites, you really do need to know HTML and CSS to a much deeper than
Adobe and Macromedia sometimes claim.

> I notice that Perl, PHP and Zope are kindly open source (free)
> software and I have tried to install them on my Win platform, but I'm
> drowning. It's all so foreign to me.

PHP and Perl are different beasts to Zope. What PHP and Perl are are
low-ish level tools with which you can build a CMS. Example - Geeklog is
a CMS which is built with PHP. Once you have Geeklog basically running,
you're just needing to customise the template to look the way you want
it. Greymatter is a blog (and blogs are basic CMSs) written in Perl
which is a fairly simple install, and then you need to customise the
template again.

(Example Geeklog site: http://www.evolt.org.uk/)

But what both Geeklog and Greymatter are are very vertical CMS - you can
only do one kind of site with them. If what you want to do is that kind
of site (and Geeklog's site can be useful in *many* situations), then
you're fine. If not... you're into a *lot* of progamming work.

What Zope is is a general CMS. You can either build your own
functionality (which at the basic level of static pages to a common
template, is very easy), or you can implement some of the many vertical
products which sit on top to provide richer functionality:
http://www.zope.org/Products

Some examples, running on my home machine (so possibly a bit slow):
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/evolt_tests/index_html
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/squishdot/index_html
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/polls/test
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/tests/testwiki/test/FrontPage
(un and pw are both 'guest')

Oh, and it comes with a tutorial too:
http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/tests/tutorial/examples
which you'll see that simple stuff can be achieved with a superset of
HTML - all my site (http://www.easyweb.co.uk) is produced with basic
DHTML.

The other nice thing that a good CMS will do is handle all the hard
stuff like security - essential if you've got users editing via the
web - and version control. Believe me, if your site is regularly
updated, you *will* need version control. It may be tomorrow, it may be
next year, but some day, you'll overwrite your content by mistake.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland



From dunstan at 1976design.com  Fri Oct 11 04:51:00 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Fri Oct 11 04:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Who is this guy?
In-Reply-To: <20021009205504.053BCC04F@relay.evolt.org>
References: <20021009205504.053BCC04F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20021011095021.M1199@1976design.com>

Bit late on this one...

> One of clients, a brand new one, told me I should really read Philip
> Greenspun's site, in particular his Guide to Web Publishing:
> http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/

will his site does look to be rather out of date I can say that he's a very
nice guy - I met him in london a few years back where he was giving a talk -
and he's an MIT prof.

He and some MIT pals run a sort of free computer science boot camp university
(http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/one-term-web)... he's also the guy
behind http://www.photo.net.

But his book is certainly dated.

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Oct 11 05:04:00 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Oct 11 05:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for programmers?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLIPJELPPDEKLGHEFAEIJDLAA.jrodell@xsinet.co.za>
Message-ID: <003901c2710d$2ff8c020$5b9bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de James Odell

<snip>
> But seriously, what I really want to know is whether Perl and
> the others are
> all command driven - do I have to type in commands for the
> programme to
> work - like DOS or does Perl resemble Windows where I click
> to get things
> done?
</snip>

Good question. It's all a matter of what you want to achieve.

As for perl I can't answer, but here are my two cents of Euros for
ColdFusion, ASP and PHP.

I hear that products like DreamWeaver UltraDev or MX enable you to interface
databases directly and write the server-side code for you. That's good for
very simple DB interaction, maybe. But as soon as things get a tad
complicated you _need_ to be able to type your code, maybe not all off by
heart, but at least know the syntax and know where to look up on specific
functions.

Take a more precise example: PHP.
I know the syntax and a number of functions, right?
But:
What I use as a day-to-day reference: www.php.net
What I use as a day-to-day tool: phpEdit

What I mean (if not already said) is that you can't get away with no code if
you want to do professional server-side work. (and like most web people
today, I was not a programmer in the first place, mind you, I was a literary
student ;-)))

HTH
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/



From keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 05:14:01 2002
From: keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk (Keith Underdown)
Date: Fri Oct 11 05:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problems with uploaded PHP site
In-Reply-To: <000201c270fe$9108c3b0$0100a8c0@underdown1>
Message-ID: <000401c2710f$68bd4dc0$0100a8c0@underdown1>

I actually got an answer from my ISP support!

They have register_globals set to off so my code needed to be amended from:
if (isset($page_title):
    $title=urldecode($page_title);

to:

if (isset($_GET['page_title'])):
    $title=urldecode($_GET['page_title']);

see http://www.php.net/manual/en/security.registerglobals.php

Keith



From techwatcher at accesswriters.com  Fri Oct 11 06:42:01 2002
From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Carol Stein)
Date: Fri Oct 11 06:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Could using SSI ("include") alter status of
  visited link?
Message-ID: <E17zyB3-0004OY-00@falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi, Joel et al --

Thanks, Joel. I restored the link/visited/hover order for my CSS files (e.g. ch-manor.css at http://charlottetownmanor.com ), and colors now work as I planned, within Opera at least.

From: Joel Canfield <joel at spinhead.com>
> Nope. I'm pretty sure that's a function of the browser's history, but that's
> out of my realm.
...
> So using SSI ain't what's causing it. I'll guess a browser setting. Is this
> consistent across all the browsers you use? Got a URL we could play with?
I should have thought of testing in other browsers. In K-Meleon, my normal browser, I don't see the visited link color, but it showed up fine in Opera. I must have reset something oddly in K-Meleon between my first and second round of testing. Sigh.

Cheers --
Carol





From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Fri Oct 11 06:49:01 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Fri Oct 11 06:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB9FF1.7CDC%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <MGEKLGHDNCCOJEHBAIKEAEOEDIAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

Cayley Vos wrote:
>Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they
work.
>You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.

Please see http://www.google.com/webmasters/
in particular http://www.google.com/addurl.html

kind regards,
Liam




From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Fri Oct 11 06:51:00 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Fri Oct 11 06:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
Message-ID: <MWMail.iptssqpj@host.none>

Hi all,

I have a small homemade blog in PHP (it does however support amost all
you might want).

The login mechanism is so far the following. A form is submitted to the
login script which registers uname and password in a session and checks
the session uname and pass against the administator database. If they
exist and match the location header is sent and another site is loaded..
 If not the session is destroyed and an error page is shown.

On the main site I check for a session and a registered variable
"password" and if those are found the admin links and rights are in
play. If not , the dafault (visitor) page is shown (admin links do not
appear)...

Maybe I should mention that pages that are strictly for the admins
(post message, edit message, delete message and so forth) have a header
that checks for the session and password and if not found they
automatically load an error page (with the location header)....

Could this be improved in some way? What are possible problems with the
setup? Easy ways to get in?

Thanks a lot,
nmk



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Oct 11 07:12:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.iptssqpj@host.none>
Message-ID: <001001c2711f$64574140$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Could this be improved in some way? What are possible problems with the
setup? Easy ways to get in?
[/snip]

Are you using encrypted passwords or are you passing plain text across the
connection? You may want to look into encryption functions at
http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.mcrypt.php.

HTH!

Jay




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Fri Oct 11 07:22:01 2002
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF:  Clearing a cached query?
In-Reply-To: <3412832492.20021010202002@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <001301c27120$b466bfc0$6561a8c0@vader>

In order to clear a cached query, you simply rerun the query with a
timespan cache of 0,0,0,0.

HOWEVER...

The query must be the EXACT same SQL. In other words, if the original
query looked like so:

	select * from foo

and your code to clear the cache looks like so:

select * from foo

you will NOT be able to clear the cache? Why? Because the white space
has changed.

A simple way to get around this is to take your query and place it in
either a custom tag, UDF, or CFC. Add an option that specifies the
timeout. That way no matter how you use the query (public side or
admin), the SQL will remain the same and you won't have to worry.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
WWW      : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Frank
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 8:20 PM
> To: Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] CF: Clearing a cached query?
>
>
>
> <!--- A cached query --->
> <cfquery [...] cachedwithin="#CreateTimeSpan(0,0,30,0)#">
>
> </cfquery>
>
> I'm using the CachedWithin attribute for some queries that
> are rarely updated. I'd like to be able to flush the cache
> when the admin updates updates a record. The query is on
> made on the user side, the update is a completely unrelated
> process.
>
> I've looked at cfflush and cfcache, and don't quite 'get'
> how to use them in this particular situation. Can someone
> suggest a method?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Frank Marion
> Tel. 416 825 7488
> framar at interlog.com
> http://www.frankmarion.com
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From evolt at rjf.ca  Fri Oct 11 07:51:01 2002
From: evolt at rjf.ca (Bob Fowler)
Date: Fri Oct 11 07:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Wired News Site Update - What do you think?
Message-ID: <019801c27124$ca4228d0$2301a8c0@raven>

Hey Folks,

I was just going through my morning ritual of reading some of the news
sites, when I noticed that Wired has redesigned. http://www.wired.com/

They are now using a table-less design utilising CSS. The surprising news is
that it "almost" validates! They have an article about the new site here:
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,55675,00.html

Just thought it was interesting...

Bob.



From list at zettai.net  Fri Oct 11 08:06:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CB9FF1.7CDC%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <B9CC44D3.E8D8%list@zettai.net>

do you care to back this up? or shall we just take your word on it?

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net>
>
> Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they work.
> You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.



From list at zettai.net  Fri Oct 11 08:11:02 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:11:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CBCCD2.C0E4%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>
Message-ID: <B9CC461D.E8DB%list@zettai.net>

Actually the schedule seems to be a bit accelerated because the googlebot
has been visiting me regularly over the last few days.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Neil Lee <neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>
>
> Their spider runs on a monthly basis (roughly between the 20th and the 25th
> of the month,



From list at zettai.net  Fri Oct 11 08:15:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Perl, PHP, Zope and CMS - are they only for
	programmers?
In-Reply-To: <BC705DE2-DCF5-11D6-AA7E-000502172AD3@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9CC46FB.E8DC%list@zettai.net>

hi, a couple things. First, I think you mean DTML, right? and about
versions, there have been some warnings that using versions, you run the
risk of damaging your zodb. this from an engineer who works at zope.

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion

> From: Martin Burns <martin at easyweb.co.uk>
>
> Oh, and it comes with a tutorial too:
> http://zope.homeunix.net:8080/tests/tutorial/examples
> which you'll see that simple stuff can be achieved with a superset of
> HTML - all my site (http://www.easyweb.co.uk) is produced with basic
> DHTML.
>
> The other nice thing that a good CMS will do is handle all the hard
> stuff like security - essential if you've got users editing via the
> web - and version control. Believe me, if your site is regularly
> updated, you *will* need version control. It may be tomorrow, it may be
> next year, but some day, you'll overwrite your content by mistake.



From barry at springcottage.ndirect.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 08:17:01 2002
From: barry at springcottage.ndirect.co.uk (Barry Sweeney)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CC44D3.E8D8%list@zettai.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJJDOHBLHNBHGIPGACEFMJDAA.barry@springcottage.ndirect.co.uk>

So you wouldn't be able to use this then?
http://www.google.com/addurl.html

> > Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not
> how they work.
> > You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.



From neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom  Fri Oct 11 08:22:09 2002
From: neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom (Neil Lee)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:22:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CC461D.E8DB%list@zettai.net>
Message-ID: <B9CC3A85.C11B%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>

> Actually the schedule seems to be a bit accelerated because the googlebot
> has been visiting me regularly over the last few days.

One thing that Google has been doing (which is very cool, I think) is if the
spider finds a site that has consistently changing front page content (like
a newspaper's homepage, or a weblog) it adds the site to a special list of
sites it spiders every day.

The home page for my personal site is usually crawled every day; the
/entire/ site is recrawled once a month. If you check google results, the
sites that it crawls often have a "Fresh!" label, with the last date crawled
(usually one day earlier).

Yet another reason to keep them homepages fresh and updated!

Neil
---
Slumming at the beatnikPad : http://www.beatnikpad.com/
Working at theNonsuch: http://reblog.thenonsuch.com/
e-mail: webify at thenonsuch.com | Amit?.



From glenburnett at xtra.co.nz  Fri Oct 11 08:35:00 2002
From: glenburnett at xtra.co.nz (Glen Burnett)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <003001c270e8$eb64f1a0$b63586d9@carey>
Message-ID: <FNEMIMNBNLONBCCHEOODCEBHCBAA.glenburnett@xtra.co.nz>

The problem is that the order of your column names and their values are
wrong.

You are inserting the ip address into the day field which is what will be
giving you the data type mismatch error.

The sql string should look like:

sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
('"&straddr&"','"&strip&"','"&strday&"','"&strmsg&"')"


Glen





-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael CAREY
Sent: Friday, 11 October 2002 6:42 p.m.
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi there. I am an ASP newbie so dont bite my head off if this is a silly
mistake.

My code to do a simple db update looks like this
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
<%
Dim objconn, strprovider, sql
Set objconn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
strprovider = "Driver=Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb);
DBQ=e:\domains\elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk\user\htdocs\display\update.mdb
"
objconn.Open(strprovider)

'Server Side form validation to keep our database clean
straddr = request.form("PostedBy")
strmsg= request.form("Message")
strip = request.form("IpAddr")
strday = request.form("Day")


sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES
('"&straddr&"','"&strday&"','"&strip&"','"&strmsg&"')"

objconn.Execute(sql)


'Lets redirect the user back to where they came from
Response.Redirect "thanks.htm"
%>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

My database is called update with a table in it called stuff. I have four
columns
PostedBy, IpAddr, Day, Message in that order.
I have this page linked into a form, from which the results are stored.
However, I keep getting the following error

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria
expression.

/display/add.asp, line 16



I really am stuck on this one. It has taken me a long time to get my
connection right but i finally have but there are still errors.



There is a test version at
www.elementdesign.dc-hosting.co.uk/display/addit.asp

Please please please help.

Thanks in advance.

Giles Carey  giles at elementdesign.biz  www.elementdesign.biz





--

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From roger.newbrook at scientiasolutions.com  Fri Oct 11 08:35:13 2002
From: roger.newbrook at scientiasolutions.com (Roger Newbrook)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:35:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] embedded mailto tags not working on a mac
Message-ID: <C661FBF45CE13E428535DA5DD10AF48603BA06@kplfps.kplne.ncl.kmsoftware.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi all
just a quickie.
Has anyone come across mailto tags in an email message not working or
freezing on a mac? this is all i have to go on at the mo, as the person i am
trying to sort the problem out for is currently incommunicado.

thanks in advance

roger


From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Oct 11 08:39:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.iptssqpj@host.none>
Message-ID: <B9CC923F.25D%futureweb@macmail.com>

Nmk. Sorry cant give u an answer but your system date is very out.
Hence your email was at the bottom of my app....
27/8/01.....

On 27/8/01 12:39 am, "Nickolay Kolev" <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a small homemade blog in PHP (it does however support amost all
> you might want).
>
> The login mechanism is so far the following. A form is submitted to the
> login script which registers uname and password in a session and checks
> the session uname and pass against the administator database. If they
> exist and match the location header is sent and another site is loaded..
> If not the session is destroyed and an error page is shown.
>
> On the main site I check for a session and a registered variable
> "password" and if those are found the admin links and rights are in
> play. If not , the dafault (visitor) page is shown (admin links do not
> appear)...
>
> Maybe I should mention that pages that are strictly for the admins
> (post message, edit message, delete message and so forth) have a header
> that checks for the session and password and if not found they
> automatically load an error page (with the location header)....
>
> Could this be improved in some way? What are possible problems with the
> setup? Easy ways to get in?
>
> Thanks a lot,
> nmk

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Oct 11 08:45:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] embedded mailto tags not working on a mac
In-Reply-To: <C661FBF45CE13E428535DA5DD10AF48603BA06@kplfps.kplne.ncl.kmsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <B9CC9395.261%futureweb@macmail.com>

Not really no (mac since 94).

OS9
it could be to do with their Control Panles/internet config settings - if
their email client is not setup in internet config this *POSSIBLY* could
happen....

OSX system prefs, interent/email, same again.

On 11/10/02 3:05 pm, "Roger Newbrook" <roger.newbrook at scientiasolutions.com>
wrote:

> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Hi all
> just a quickie.
> Has anyone come across mailto tags in an email message not working or
> freezing on a mac? this is all i have to go on at the mo, as the person i am
> trying to sort the problem out for is currently incommunicado.
>
> thanks in advance
>
> roger

<!------------------------
benjer at macmail.com
------------------------->




From nadeem at essex.ac.uk  Fri Oct 11 08:52:01 2002
From: nadeem at essex.ac.uk (Ahmad, N)
Date: Fri Oct 11 08:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Open two URLs from one hyperlink?
Message-ID: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DC72@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>

Hi all

Is it possible for one hyperlink to open two URLs at once? Or is there a
different solution to this problem:

I have some clips on my web site in both WMA (Windows Media) and MP3. These
are extracts of interview texts. What I would like to do is have the user
click on a link to the sound clip, and for the clip to start playing and
open new page at the appropriate spot in the interview.

Hope that makes sense! (I am using IIS5/ASP so don't really want (for
example) a solution that utilises JavaScript).

Thanks

Nadeem


From list01 at theparagon.org  Fri Oct 11 09:36:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Fri Oct 11 09:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI if statements not working
Message-ID: <B9CC59E0.979%list01@theparagon.org>

I need a script that can detect which browser is being used and then spit
out the appropriate text.

Right now I have my navigation written in 2 different ways - one way for IE
and another for NN users.

If you go to http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stage/newclassifieds/ you'll see
my problem.


I can't use Perl, PHP, ASP or anything that would really help me do this
task easily.

JavaScript and SSI would be nice - I would like to have something done
server side - that's why I picked SSI.


<!--#if expr="${HTTP_USER_AGENT} = /MSIE/" -->
  <!--#include file="inc/navigation.txt" -->
 <!--#else -->
  <!--#include file="inc/nn4x_navigation.txt" -->
<!--#endif -->



-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Oct 11 09:37:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Oct 11 09:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>

I am tinkering with ADOX in ASP, and was wondering if anybody knows why my
stored procedure names all have ";1" appended to them?

For instance, all procedure names look like this:

	add_event;1
	get_eventbyid;1
	add_feed;1
	...

I am using SQL Server 2000 as the provider, ADO 2.7 on the server.

I haven't seen this in any of the docs or tutorials I've read so far. :(

Also, I'm getting empty values for Procedure.DateCreated and
Procedure.DateModified. The MSDN docs say the Procedure object supports
DateCreated and DateModified, but the value is Null if the provider doesn't
support this. I'm having trouble believing SQL Server 2000 doesn't support
Microsoft's own properties...

Thanks!
-dave


From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Oct 11 09:41:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Oct 11 09:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJAEPGCLAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Dave,

IIRC the ;1 is how SP versions are denoted.  You can have multiple versions
of the same stored proc with this.  So:

add_event;1 is the 1st version of the add_event sp.  You could also have an
add_event;2 and ;3 and so-on.  How did you create these stored procs?

Sorry I can't help ya with the Procedure properties issues.

HTH!

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> I am tinkering with ADOX in ASP, and was wondering if anybody knows why my
> stored procedure names all have ";1" appended to them?
>
> For instance, all procedure names look like this:
>
> 	add_event;1
> 	get_eventbyid;1
> 	add_feed;1
> 	...
>
> I am using SQL Server 2000 as the provider, ADO 2.7 on the server.
>
> I haven't seen this in any of the docs or tutorials I've read so far. :(
>
> Also, I'm getting empty values for Procedure.DateCreated and
> Procedure.DateModified. The MSDN docs say the Procedure object supports
> DateCreated and DateModified, but the value is Null if the
> provider doesn't
> support this. I'm having trouble believing SQL Server 2000 doesn't support
> Microsoft's own properties...
>
> Thanks!
> -dave



From jyee at vt.edu  Fri Oct 11 09:53:00 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Fri Oct 11 09:53:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Open two URLs from one hyperlink?
References: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DC72@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3da6e760@fuseware.com>

"Ahmad, N" <nadeem at essex.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B660B01DC72 at sernt14.essex.ac.uk...
> Is it possible for one hyperlink to open two URLs at once? Or is there a
> different solution to this problem:
>
> I have some clips on my web site in both WMA (Windows Media) and MP3.
These
> are extracts of interview texts. What I would like to do is have the user
> click on a link to the sound clip, and for the clip to start playing and
> open new page at the appropriate spot in the interview.
>
> Hope that makes sense! (I am using IIS5/ASP so don't really want (for
> example) a solution that utilises JavaScript).

You really do have to use JavaScript for this type of functionality, as HTML
hyperlinks were never meant to link to more than one resource than once.  An
alternative is to create boxes containing two links each - one for the clip
and one for the page, but JavaScript is definitely the easiest and most
intuitive way to go.

Just make sure that you have an alternate link for those of us who either
don't use JavaScript or can't use JavaScript.

--
Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Oct 11 10:04:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFE@fsjubj09>

>add_event;1 is the 1st version of the add_event sp.  You could also have an
>add_event;2 and ;3 and so-on.

Interesting, I didn't know it did that. How do I update the version number?
I've modified most of them over time, but they all still report version 1...

>How did you create these stored procs?

Manually using Query Analyzer, e.g. "create proc foobar @yadda yadda
yadda..."

There's about 250 of them.

I'm trying to gather metrics on them and find similarities, what is and
isn't being used, etc so I can trim the database. I figure I can probably
lose 25% of the procedures due to redundancy, testing/experimenting, or
because they are orphaned and no longer used.

Thanks for your help, it answered one of my questions! :)
-dave


From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Oct 11 10:14:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFE@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKEPGCLAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Dave-

Use "sp_helptext <your_stored_proc>" to see all the various versions and
code associated with a particular sp.  Example scenario:

You have add_event;1
You want to know if there are more versions of that sp
"sp_helptext add_event" will tell you

If you want to define more versions of a stored proc, just create them with
the version number appended to the name:

create procedure my_proc;1 as
	...

go

create procedure my_proc;2 as
	...

etc.

What this does is essentially just group the stored procs together by name.
You can call each individually using the ;[n] notation.  If you need to drop
the "my_proc" sp above, "drop procedure my_proc" will remove both versions,
since they're contained in the same group.

Can you tell me where this version info is showing up?  Are you using
sp_helptext to display the procs right now?  If you look through EM at the
database itself, do you see version numbers on the names of the procedures?

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> >add_event;1 is the 1st version of the add_event sp.  You could
> also have an
> >add_event;2 and ;3 and so-on.
>
> Interesting, I didn't know it did that. How do I update the
> version number?
> I've modified most of them over time, but they all still report
> version 1...
>
> >How did you create these stored procs?
>
> Manually using Query Analyzer, e.g. "create proc foobar @yadda yadda
> yadda..."
>
> There's about 250 of them.
>
> I'm trying to gather metrics on them and find similarities, what is and
> isn't being used, etc so I can trim the database. I figure I can probably
> lose 25% of the procedures due to redundancy, testing/experimenting, or
> because they are orphaned and no longer used.
>
> Thanks for your help, it answered one of my questions! :)
> -dave



From greg at mapleleafweb.com  Fri Oct 11 10:20:00 2002
From: greg at mapleleafweb.com (Greg Farries)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CC3A85.C11B%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>
Message-ID: <CJEJKHFHBMJLOBHGFMFAMEDCDNAA.greg@mapleleafweb.com>

> Actually the schedule seems to be a bit accelerated
> because the googlebot has been visiting me regularly
> over the last few days.

>From what I've read lately, http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/5646.htm it
would seem that Google has changed its "Page Rank" feature.  Which has been
resulting in more traffic for some, and less traffic for others.  My work
site, mapleleafweb.com has seen a 3 fold increase in the traffic we get from
Google.  Which in my mind is a very good thing.

> The home page for my personal site is usually crawled
> every day; the /entire/ site is recrawled once a month.
> If you check google results, the sites that it crawls
> often have a "Fresh!" label, with the last date crawled
> (usually one day earlier).

The "Fresh" feature doesn't seem to be working lately.  Or at least I can't
seem to find a "fresh" labelled site.  For example, search for "CNN", which
In my mind should be indexed regularly, and you don't get a "fresh" rating?
Correct me if I'm wrong?

And in my experience, don't be afraid to submit new URL's to on
http://www.google.com/addurl.html on weekly basis.  Anytime we post a new
article on mapleleafweb.com, I drop by and submit the URL - it just a small
reminder to the spider to drop by that specific part of your site.  Just
don't go spamming it.


Greg Farries
Web Project Leader
http://mapleleafweb.com
Phone: 403.329.2286
Fax: 403.382.7148
Email: greg at mapleleafweb.com
--------------
Canada's Premier Political Education Website




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Oct 11 10:43:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFF@fsjubj09>

>Can you tell me where this version info is showing up?  Are you using
>sp_helptext to display the procs right now?  If you look through EM at the
>database itself, do you see version numbers on the names of the procedures?

Actually, that is what I found interesting. In EM I can just type
"sp_helptext add_event" and it displays the contents of the add_event SP as
expected.

But in ADOX, I have to reference the procedure like this:

	Set oCmd = oCatalog.Procedures( "add_event;1" ).Command

Even weirder, the Procedures collection returns a collection of Procedure
objects, each of which has a .Name property. Querying the .Name like this:

	For each oProc in oCatalog.Procedures
		Set oCmd = oProc.Command
		For each oParam in oCmd.Parameters
			response.write oParam.Name & "<br>"
		Next
	Next

Gets me a "No such interface supported" error. :(

But if I reference the Procedure object directly as in the first example,
passing the name explicitly, it works. Unfortunately as I said I have 250
SPs and I want this to be generic, not hard-coded with all those names. :)

Besides, since Procedure.Name returns "add_event;1" then the oProc object in
the For loop should be bound to the Procedure object for that iteration, and
the oProc.Name should return "add_event;1" (or any of the other 249 names).

I'm taking the examples pretty much straight from MSDN examples, though they
are VB and I'm converting them to VBScript, but it should be fairly
straightforward. Unfortunately I think I'm missing something in the process.

I'll look around on the web some more and see if I can come up with any
other examples/answers to show me where I'm wrong.

Thanks for your help!
-dave


From anne at lstech.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 10:47:01 2002
From: anne at lstech.co.uk (Anne Pennington)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Html emails
Message-ID: <B9CCB101.1130%anne@lstech.co.uk>

Does anyone know how to create an html email in Outlook Express 5.02 Mac. I
have to send an ezine about a rugby club and all my colleagues here are on
PCs, I am the only one on a Mac and can't see how it is done.

Maybe it is not possible at all?

Thanks for any insight into this.

Regards

Anne

Anne Pennington
LS Technologies
184-186 New Kings Road
London SW6 4NF




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Oct 11 10:52:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142B000@fsjubj09>

Well, it looks like SQL Server doesn't fully support ADOX after all. Third
paragraph on this site gives the basic idea:


http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2002_01/magazine/columns/databasedesign/page2.as
p

But it does store the info I need (SP params, etc) in system tables which
will give me some reflection capabilities into the system.

Basic quick-n-dirty in EM looks like this:

	declare @id int;
	select @id = id from sysobjects where name = 'add_event';
	select * from syscolumns where id = @id;

Thanks for your help though, I didn't know about the versioning thing.

-dave


From SCaudill at municode.com  Fri Oct 11 10:55:01 2002
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Fri Oct 11 10:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Html emails
Message-ID: <8BE83ACB4413F246992E7A4EC5DC7D2B2D6959@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Not sure about LooKOuT Express, but here's how you would go about doing it in LooKOuT 2K:

1 Choose Tools > Options.
2 Click the Mail Format tab.
3 In the Send in this message format pop-up menu, choose HTML.
4 Click Settings.
5 Select the option to Send pictures from the Internet with messages.
6 Click OK.
7 Click the New button to open a new message.
8 Choose Insert > File.
9 Browse to find the Dreamweaver HTML file on your hard drive or disk. Click the HTML file once to select it.
10 Before clicking Insert, click the drop-down arrow next to the Insert button.
11 From the submenu, select Insert as Text.
12 Complete your e-mail options.
13 Click Send.

hth,
Stephen


-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Pennington [mailto:anne at lstech.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:47 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Html emails



Does anyone know how to create an html email in Outlook Express 5.02 Mac. I
have to send an ezine about a rugby club and all my colleagues here are on
PCs, I am the only one on a Mac and can't see how it is done.

Maybe it is not possible at all?

Thanks for any insight into this.

Regards

Anne

Anne Pennington
LS Technologies
184-186 New Kings Road
London SW6 4NF


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Oct 11 11:01:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Html emails
In-Reply-To: <B9CCB101.1130%anne@lstech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9CCB382.282%futureweb@macmail.com>

Hi Anne,

I don?t think its normally possible In outlook, we use a program called
maxbulk mailer
http://www.maxprog.com

However, I found this:

Send Complex HTML OE [v1.0.0]

Item no 59 on
http://www.applescriptcentral.com/arc.php?type=oe

good luck
Ben

<!------------------------
futureweb at macmail.com
------------------------->

On 11/10/02 5:46 pm, "Anne Pennington" <anne at lstech.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Does anyone know how to create an html email in Outlook Express 5.02 Mac. I
> have to send an ezine about a rugby club and all my colleagues here are on
> PCs, I am the only one on a Mac and can't see how it is done.
>
> Maybe it is not possible at all?
>
> Thanks for any insight into this.
>
> Regards
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Pennington
> LS Technologies
> 184-186 New Kings Road
> London SW6 4NF
>





From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Oct 11 11:08:00 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Wired News Site Update - What do you think?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB24@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Fowler [mailto:evolt at rjf.ca]
> Sent: October 11, 2002 8:51 AM

> thought it was interesting...

More than interesting, its amazing. A massive commercial site (20-25
million page views) makes the leap. This is a fantastic counter to the
belief that CSS-base layouts are only for niche/blog sites.

These guys should be applauded, and publicly so, if not for the design
(which is good), but for the purity of it (semantic XHTML, CSS-P,
font-sizers, and some nice plans to utilize the power of CSS).

Wired News/Hotwired always used to push the edge, and I can only hope
other sites can learn from them to create a trend.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From web2k2 at premonition.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 11:12:01 2002
From: web2k2 at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT Weird IP addies, ADSL router, Mac
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <p05100306b9cca544b9ee@[192.168.8.2]>

I know this is probably off-topic, but I just have such a weird problem.

If I connect to my ADSL router using a crossover cable, fine.
If I connect via 2 normal cable and a hub, it doesn't work. Here's
the weird bit: the IP addresses the router gives out *change*.

With the crossover cable the IP addresses on my mac are (correct):
IP 		192.168.8.2
Mask 		255.255.255.0
Router 		192.168.8.1
Name Server	212.159.11.150

Connected through the hub, I get:
IP 		169.254.83.233
Mask 		255.255.255.0
Router 		169.254.83.233
Name Server	224.0.0.251


Where on earth can those IP addies be coming from? They only appear
when I plug in the router so my Mac didn't make them up on its own.
I'm confused :(

TIA

Geoff


From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Oct 11 11:16:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I know virtually all of it is available online, but I learn better when I'm
reading a book (not a monitor.)

What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read? I'm coming from a Microsoft
centric background - ASP, MSSQL2000, all on Windows servers running IIS5.
I'd like to work toward a Unix/Apache platform, but to begin with I'd like
to get comfortable with PHP and MySQL.

I've read the docs, and even developed a playground at
http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/php/ so I'm not a complete newbie, but
close.

I'm also very interested in best practices for PHP and MySQL, but again, in
a book.

Thanks.

joel


From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Oct 11 11:18:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Wired News Site Update - What do you think?
Message-ID: <01c27141$b192dc40$LocalHost@rudy>

>http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,55675,00.html

woohoo!!    thanks for letting us know, bob

i'm surprised that there hasn't been any comment on this here yet

wired is a huge site, both in terms of the number of pages that had to be
converted -- people, think about it, how long would it take you to convert
a huge site to a tableless design? never mind coming up with bullet-proof
templates based on css, just the sheer work of conversion -- and also in
terms of bandwidth, because apparently they get 20-25 million page hits a
month (to borrow a number posted by eric meyer on another list)

i'm pumped about it, and i don't even like wired

rudy



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Oct 11 11:19:00 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT Weird IP addies, ADSL router, Mac
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B6@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Connected through the hub, I get:
> IP 		169.254.83.233
> Mask 		255.255.255.0
> Router 		169.254.83.233
> Name Server	224.0.0.251
>
>
> Where on earth can those IP addies be coming from? They only
> appear when I plug in the router so my Mac didn't make them
> up on its own. I'm confused :(

Those are 'autoconfigure' addresses - it means you ain't connected to
nothin' so you've got no DHCP generated address.

joel


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Oct 11 11:21:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:21:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT Weird IP addies, ADSL router, Mac
In-Reply-To: <p05100306b9cca544b9ee@[192.168.8.2]>
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
 <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011091902.01cd5680@baratta.com>

At 09:09 AM 10/11/2002, Geoff Sheridan wrote:

>If I connect to my ADSL router using a crossover cable, fine.
>If I connect via 2 normal cable and a hub, it doesn't work. Here's
>the weird bit: the IP addresses the router gives out *change*.

What type of hub are you using? Does the "hub" have it's own DHCP service?
e.g. LinkSYs Cable/DSL Router?
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Oct 11 11:27:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT Weird IP addies, ADSL router, Mac
In-Reply-To: <p05100306b9cca544b9ee@[192.168.8.2]>
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
 <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011092056.01cd0ac8@baratta.com>

At 09:09 AM 10/11/2002, Geoff Sheridan wrote:

>Connected through the hub, I get:
>IP              169.254.83.233
>Mask            255.255.255.0
>Router          169.254.83.233
>Name Server     224.0.0.251

P.S. Also, you may not be able to see the router through the hub and
therefore the MAC is giving itself the information.

If you have a cable tester, make sure that all your cables work correctly
and are not cross over cables.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Oct 11 11:36:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Oct 11 11:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ADOX question
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142B000@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJOEPICLAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Ah hah, good deal.  And no problem, I had to bust out the books for that
last email so I got a refresher myself. :)

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Well, it looks like SQL Server doesn't fully support ADOX after all. Third
> paragraph on this site gives the basic idea:
>
>
> http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2002_01/magazine/columns/databasedesig
> n/page2.as
> p
>
> But it does store the info I need (SP params, etc) in system tables which
> will give me some reflection capabilities into the system.
>
> Basic quick-n-dirty in EM looks like this:
>
> 	declare @id int;
> 	select @id = id from sysobjects where name = 'add_event';
> 	select * from syscolumns where id = @id;
>
> Thanks for your help though, I didn't know about the versioning thing.
>
> -dave



From giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Oct 11 12:07:01 2002
From: giles at elementdesign.fsnet.co.uk (Michael CAREY)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Was ASP Question now It still doesn't work
Message-ID: <001001c27143$c264ab00$090b86d9@carey>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I was trying to insert a date value but i am told that it is an unterminated string constant, with reference point to the word value.

Please help again!

BTW,

Thx 4 all the help last time

Regards,

Giles
giles at elementdesign.biz

--



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Oct 11 12:07:13 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:07:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] someone on the list is infected with a virus. i think.
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF28@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

maybe someone can sort this out for me. i just received a virus from
someone who is on thelist. the file was that was removed was called
"shipManifest.txt.scr" and is supposedly of type "W32.Bugbear at mm".

the mail came from "Thomas Granger - TK - Filter". when i clicked reply
i was replyingto the person who sent the email and not thelist which
would have distributed it. in other words i don't think this email was
submitted to thelist[at]lists.evolt.org. but rather it was sent from the
infected users computer to me.

the email address is "java_fella at chesco.com". i tried to send an email
to that address warning that person of the virus (assuming they are
actually the person that is infected) but it bounced. so i'm sending it
to the list in case any of you get the same message.

if you are that person, get your computer scanned.


thanks,
chris.


From harold at bootstudio.com  Fri Oct 11 12:20:01 2002
From: harold at bootstudio.com (Harold Maduro)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
In-Reply-To: <20021011170559.6020E3ACB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011121058.024d6d90@bootstudio.com>

hello, i made an asp page to send a birthday email to people on a DB.  You
have to enter a page, see the people who has a birthday today() and then
click on "send" and it sends away.

Anyway, the client now wants the server to do this automatically.  Is there
any way of doing this with ASP / Win2k / Access ?

Thanks!

Harold....
harold at bootstudio.com




From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Fri Oct 11 12:22:02 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:22:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636B01F@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Anyway, the client now wants the server to do this automatically.
> Is there any way of doing this with ASP / Win2k / Access ?

What's the database?

Josh


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Oct 11 12:25:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI if statements not working
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB27@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: { schaapy } [mailto:list01 at theparagon.org]
> Sent: October 11, 2002 10:35 AM

> I need a script that can detect which browser is being used
> and then spit out the appropriate text.

<!--#set var="ua" value="$HTTP_USER_AGENT" -->
<!--#if expr="(${ua} = /.*MSIE.*/) || (${ua} = /.*Gecko.*/) || (${ua} =
/.*Opera\/[4-9].*/) || (${ua} = /.*Konqueror.*/)" -->
 <!--#include file="inc/navigation.txt" -->
<!--#elif expr="(${ua} = /.*Mozilla\/4.*/)" -->
 <!--#include file="inc/nn4x_navigation.txt" -->
<!--#else -->
  <!--#include file="inc/navigation.txt" -->
<!--#endif -->

This one will detect IE, newer Netscapes, Mozilla, Opera, Konqueror and
serve up the "navigation.txt".

Any browser with UA string with "Mozilla/4." will get "nn4x_navigation".


Any other browser gets "navigation.txt" (this could be changed to
whatever file name you want.

You can add more browsers to either by adding another UA string chunk
between the .*.*:
(${ua} = /.*.*/)

To get this working, your server must support XSSI, and probably the
file should have the extension of .shtml

Good luck.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Fri Oct 11 12:33:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] someone on the list is infected with a virus. i thi
	nk.
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636B01E@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Chris -

I got the same email.  I would guess that the virus (or someone manually) is
sending this email to people who post to thelist.

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris W. Parker [mailto:cparker at swatgear.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:55 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] someone on the list is infected with a virus. i
think.


hi.

maybe someone can sort this out for me. i just received a virus from
someone who is on thelist. the file was that was removed was called
"shipManifest.txt.scr" and is supposedly of type "W32.Bugbear at mm".

the mail came from "Thomas Granger - TK - Filter". when i clicked reply
i was replyingto the person who sent the email and not thelist which
would have distributed it. in other words i don't think this email was
submitted to thelist[at]lists.evolt.org. but rather it was sent from the
infected users computer to me.

the email address is "java_fella at chesco.com". i tried to send an email
to that address warning that person of the virus (assuming they are
actually the person that is infected) but it bounced. so i'm sending it
to the list in case any of you get the same message.

if you are that person, get your computer scanned.


thanks,
chris.
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Oct 11 12:34:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14DF29@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov]
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 10:19 AM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: RE: [thelist] ASP cron job
>
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Anyway, the client now wants the server to do this automatically.
> > Is there any way of doing this with ASP / Win2k / Access ?
>
> What's the database?

see that part where he says "ASP / Win2k / Access" ? i think he means
Access database. ;)


chris.


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Oct 11 12:35:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011121058.024d6d90@bootstudio.com>
References: <20021011170559.6020E3ACB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011103335.0287bbb0@baratta.com>

At 10:13 AM 10/11/2002, Harold Maduro wrote:
>hello, i made an asp page to send a birthday email to people on a DB.  You
>have to enter a page, see the people who has a birthday today() and then
>click on "send" and it sends away.
>
>Anyway, the client now wants the server to do this automatically.  Is there
>any way of doing this with ASP / Win2k / Access ?

Convert the page to a VBS script and run through Win2K Scheduler.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From joshua at waetech.com  Fri Oct 11 12:36:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011121058.024d6d90@bootstudio.com>
Message-ID: <078501c2714c$76de5290$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 1:13 PM


> hello, i made an asp page to send a birthday email to people on a DB.  You
> have to enter a page, see the people who has a birthday today() and then
> click on "send" and it sends away.
>
> Anyway, the client now wants the server to do this automatically.  Is
there
> any way of doing this with ASP / Win2k / Access ?

Harold,

The way that I would do this would be to recode the ASP page to a .VBS file
and then execute that file from the windows scheduler.  The conversion from
ASP to .VBS should be fairly painless since ASP uses VBScript.  To execute
the VBS file, use the following:

cscript.exe myvbsfile.vbs

HTH,
-joshua



From cache at dowebscentral.com  Fri Oct 11 12:36:15 2002
From: cache at dowebscentral.com (Keith)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:36:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Client wants to update page content
In-Reply-To: <005801c270cf$017ff760$6401a8c0@irubinmain>
References: <B9C9A129.1836%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011112353.00bca640@www.dowebscentral.com>

At 07:35 PM Thursday 10/10/2002, you wrote:

> > Hello, all.
> >
> > The owner/chef is eager to be able to update various pages (such as menu)
> > himself. He is not very tech-savvy, but doesn't want to have to pay me
> > forever to update frequently-changing data.
> >

I just opened a new website that offers a WYSIWYG editor that runs in your
browser.  It is not a monthly service, the Perl program installs on your
server. Once installed your client can edit areas of pages where you allow
editing. Your client never sees the underlying code.

http://contenteditable.com


Keith
====================
support at contenteditable.com



From daves at i-6.com  Fri Oct 11 12:50:01 2002
From: daves at i-6.com (Dave Stott)
Date: Fri Oct 11 12:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20021011154910.B0A513ABA@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.0.20021011104341.00a97ac0@63.110.132.53>

Sorry if I'm out of line here (I just joined the list), but you can easily submit yourself to google at http://www.google.com/addurl.html.  I submit many sites (for which I'm the webmaster) manually and my pages have great results **for specific search phrases**, even when they are not linked to or from other sites.

Dave S.

At 10:49 AM 10/11/02 -0500, Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net> wrote:

>Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That?s not how they work.
>You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.
>
>Remember, even posting in forums such as these, one can be exposed to
>crawlers.



From cbg3 at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 11 13:15:00 2002
From: cbg3 at earthlink.net (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Wired News Site Update - What do you think?
Message-ID: <Springmail.0994.1034360061.0.56528700@webmail.pas.earthlink.net>

> > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,55675,00.html
> > Just thought it was interesting...
>
> More than interesting, its amazing. A massive
> commercial site (20-25
> million page views) makes the leap. This is a
> fantastic counter to the
> belief that CSS-base layouts are only for
> niche/blog sites.

So, have others dug into the CSS to see how it works? That's also interesting.
They use percentages instead of keywords to specify the font sizes, and use a
JavaScript to set which of the alternate stylesheets is active to change the
text size. The content area is nested in a div, whose ID also has a font size
set by percentage, and they take advantage of the "compounding" that occurs
with nested tags and percentage font sizes, and change the div's font size to
125% for the largest, and the small to 86%, thus compounding to all the tags
within the div. Pretty clever!

--Ben


From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri Oct 11 13:16:00 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <20021011154913.745213ABD@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B9CC6358.7D14%cvos@netpaths.net>

I can guarantee you that the add URL feature on google is just for show.
Since the search engines started, %90 + of all sites submitted to them are
spam.  I can validate this from being an editor at DMOZ.

The reason google is the #1 search engine on the planet is because they can
filter out spam.  They do this by ranking sites based on their popularity
and content, not by submissions.

Again, the newsletters at EVOLT are, or at one time, were crawled, and
provide an avenue for being listed.

You can find out more information about google here:


http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=114

http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=257



On 10/11/02 8:49 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

> do you care to back this up? or shall we just take your word on it?
>
> <-->
> george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
> Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion
>
>> From: Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net>
>>
>> Its not possible to submit to google to be listed. That1s not how they work.
>> You were lucky and had another site link to you, or were listed in DMOZ.
>




Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Fri Oct 11 13:38:02 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:38:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <B9CC6358.7D14%cvos@netpaths.net>
References: <20021011154913.745213ABD@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011132135.01937740@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 01:15 PM 10/11/2002, Cayley Vos wrote:
>I can guarantee you that the add URL feature on google is just for show.
>Since the search engines started, %90 + of all sites submitted to them are
>spam.  I can validate this from being an editor at DMOZ.

Well, I can guarantee you that it is hardly for show.  The Add a URL form
is only for *getting into* the database, it does not (in agreement with
what you are arguing) guarantee *ranking* for any search terms (because you
aren't linked from anybody, if you were, you'd already be well off in
Google's database), but the site *will* be in the database.

This is verifiable from not just everyone else on this list who has already
said otherwise, but from myself as well, as I also do the same thing on a
regular basis.

--Ben



From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Fri Oct 11 13:41:01 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0603CDD9EF@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Joel,

I have the Paul DuBois "MySQL" book from New Riders and the
Jesus Castagnetto (et alia) "Professional PHP Programming"
book from Wrox.

I think they are pretty good.

Have Fun!

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Canfield [mailto:joel at spinhead.com]

What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read?



From dan at danromanchik.com  Fri Oct 11 13:47:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <017d01c27156$7890d900$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

I have the _PHP 4 Bible_ by Tim Converse and Joyce Park. I've been able to
find nearly all of the answers to nearly all of my questions in it.

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Canfield" <joel at spinhead.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I know virtually all of it is available online, but I learn better when
I'm
> reading a book (not a monitor.)
>
> What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read? I'm coming from a Microsoft
> centric background - ASP, MSSQL2000, all on Windows servers running IIS5.
> I'd like to work toward a Unix/Apache platform, but to begin with I'd like
> to get comfortable with PHP and MySQL.
>
> I've read the docs, and even developed a playground at
> http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/php/ so I'm not a complete newbie, but
> close.
>
> I'm also very interested in best practices for PHP and MySQL, but again,
in
> a book.
>
> Thanks.
>
> joel
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From stephen at jetfiredesign.com  Fri Oct 11 13:50:01 2002
From: stephen at jetfiredesign.com (Stephen Nelson)
Date: Fri Oct 11 13:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wired News Site and Mozilla 1.1
In-Reply-To: <20021011170559.6020E3ACB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBKEBPCCAA.stephen@jetfiredesign.com>

Hey everyone,

I think it is great that a big name like wired has chosen to do this but I
was a little dismayed when I went there using

Mozilla 1.1

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826

and I received the non-compliant browser version of the site.

Is this happening to anyone else using Mozilla 1.1?

Thx,

Stephen Nelson



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Fri Oct 11 14:00:01 2002
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wired News Site and Mozilla 1.1
In-Reply-To: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBKEBPCCAA.stephen@jetfiredesign.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c27158$5ac02dc0$6561a8c0@vader>

I'm usuing Moz1.1 and had no issues with the site - unless I'm missing
something. Nope - I double checked my IE6 - it looks the same.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
WWW      : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Nelson
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 2:48 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] RE: Wired News Site and Mozilla 1.1
>
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I think it is great that a big name like wired has chosen to
> do this but I
> was a little dismayed when I went there using
>
> Mozilla 1.1
>
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826
>
> and I received the non-compliant browser version of the site.
>
> Is this happening to anyone else using Mozilla 1.1?




From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Fri Oct 11 14:25:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: What is a MTA?
In-Reply-To: <20021011170559.6020E3ACB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021011152211.00acce18@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

There is a good write up about this at:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#1.13

I stumbled across it searching for something else and remembered the
question being asked.  Hope this helps.

-benjmain



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Fri Oct 11 14:44:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Testing for Javascript with PHP
Message-ID: <MWMail.ntrmkebh@host.none>

Hi all,

Is there any way I could test with php wheter the browser accessing the
page has javascript or not... I have had a look at environment
variables but couldn't find anything like that...

Many thanks in advance,
nmk




From glen at inception.co.nz  Fri Oct 11 14:48:01 2002
From: glen at inception.co.nz (Glen Burnett)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Was ASP Question now It still doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <001001c27143$c264ab00$090b86d9@carey>
Message-ID: <FNEMIMNBNLONBCCHEOODOECACBAA.glen@inception.co.nz>

Is the statement where you store the sql query into the string variable on
one line in your code?  If not either move it onto one line or use the line
continuation character ("_") as shown below:

----------------
sql = "INSERT INTO stuff(PostedBy,IpAddr,Day,Message) VALUES " & _
	"('"&straddr&"','"&strip&"','"&strday&"','"&strmsg&"')"

Also, do the straddr or strmsg variables contain single quotes in them?  If
so you will need to escape them using the replace function otherwise the
quote in the value will terminate the string right where you don't want it
to.

strmsg = Replace(strmsg, "'", "''")

Two single quotes in the value will give you one single quote in the
database field.  (Well, it does in Sql Server, I assume it works the same
for Access.)


Good luck,

Glen








-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael CAREY
Sent: Saturday, 12 October 2002 5:32 a.m.
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Was ASP Question now It still doesn't work


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I was trying to insert a date value but i am told that it is an unterminated
string constant, with reference point to the word value.

Please help again!

BTW,

Thx 4 all the help last time

Regards,

Giles
giles at elementdesign.biz

--

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Fri Oct 11 14:52:00 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Testing for Javascript with PHP
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.ntrmkebh@host.none>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011215730.032b3580@pop3.bip.net>

At 21:41 2002-10-11 +0200, Nickolay Kolev wrote:
>Is there any way I could test with php wheter the browser accessing the
>page has javascript or not... I have had a look at environment
>variables but couldn't find anything like that...

I don't know of such a mechanism (on the other hand I don't know any php),
but you could always put a script in the page, and set a session variable
when such a file is requested. Then you can base your php output upon that
variable.

// Liorean



From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Fri Oct 11 14:53:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Fri Oct 11 14:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP cron job
Message-ID: <154D4D2F96BBD6119D950004ACE530C636B021@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Yup.  It's Friday...

Josh

> see that part where he says "ASP / Win2k / Access" ? i think he means
> Access database. ;)


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Fri Oct 11 15:00:01 2002
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT Weird IP addies, ADSL router, Mac
In-Reply-To: <p05100306b9cca544b9ee@[192.168.8.2]>; from web2k2@premonition.co.uk on Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 05:09:38PM +0100
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFFC@fsjubj09> <p05100306b9cca544b9ee@[192.168.8.2]>
Message-ID: <20021011145930.Q6514@cow.mooresystems.com>

Hi Geoff -

It sounds like you either need to plug your DSL router into the
hub with the crossover cable or use the 'uplink' port which is
usually on one end or the other of the hub. (and may have button
near it which turns it into a normal port.) The only difference
between an uplink port and a normal one is that the uplink port
crosses over like a cross over cable.

You'll know when you're connected because you get the 192.168
addresses. Those other addresses are what DHCP clients decide
on when they can't find anyone else to talk to.

Good luck!

Andy





From joelm at citycent.com  Fri Oct 11 15:05:01 2002
From: joelm at citycent.com (Joel Morris)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <FJEALHCLENOKCIBAADMNMEIBHIAA.joelm@citycent.com>

I'd also say the New Riders' "MySQL" by DuBois and Wrox's
"Professional PHP Programming". That last one is a bit out of date now
(I think it mainly covered PHP3), but I thought it slightly better
than "Beginning PHP4".

A handy reference book to have is Sams' "PHP Developer's Dictionary".

Best, Joel Morris
-------------------------------
CityCenter Co.
Website Development & Marketing
http://www.citycent.com
mailto:joelm at citycent.com




-----Original Message-----
What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read? I'm coming from a
Microsoft
centric background - ASP, MSSQL2000, all on Windows servers running
IIS5.
I'd like to work toward a Unix/Apache platform, but to begin with I'd
like
to get comfortable with PHP and MySQL.

I've read the docs, and even developed a playground at
http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/php/ so I'm not a complete newbie,
but
close.

joel



From monty at airtightweb.com  Fri Oct 11 15:06:00 2002
From: monty at airtightweb.com (Chris Montgomery)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <14620719362.20021011145640@airtightweb.com>

Howdy Joel,

Friday, October 11, 2002, 11:14:03 AM, Joel Canfield wrote:

JC> What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read?

I have the book advertised here by Kevin Yank:
http://sitepoint.com/books/?bookid=banner1

I haven't finished reading it, but it seems pretty straightforward.
Also, SitePoint has lots of PHP/MySQL stuff here:
http://www.webmasterbase.com/subcats/53

Cheers.

Chris Montgomery        monty @ airtightweb.com

--
Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
210-490-3249/888-745-7603



From monty at airtightweb.com  Fri Oct 11 15:06:11 2002
From: monty at airtightweb.com (Chris Montgomery)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:06:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: Wired News Site and Mozilla 1.1
In-Reply-To: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBKEBPCCAA.stephen@jetfiredesign.com>
References: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBKEBPCCAA.stephen@jetfiredesign.com>
Message-ID: <15720938327.20021011150019@airtightweb.com>

Howdy Stephen,

Friday, October 11, 2002, 1:47:52 PM, Stephen Nelson wrote:

SN> and I received the non-compliant browser version of the site.

SN> Is this happening to anyone else using Mozilla 1.1?

Nope. Looks fine to me in Moz 1.1. I didn't see the non-compliant
message (except when I viewed the source).

Chris Montgomery        monty @ airtightweb.com

--
Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
210-490-3249/888-745-7603



From paul at teltest.com  Fri Oct 11 15:10:00 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
References: <FJEALHCLENOKCIBAADMNMEIBHIAA.joelm@citycent.com>
Message-ID: <3DA730C7.9000503@teltest.com>

"php and mysql web programming" - Welling and Thomson, available through
SAMS

Joel Morris wrote:

>I'd also say the New Riders' "MySQL" by DuBois and Wrox's
>"Professional PHP Programming". That last one is a bit out of date now
>(I think it mainly covered PHP3), but I thought it slightly better
>than "Beginning PHP4".
>
>A handy reference book to have is Sams' "PHP Developer's Dictionary".
>
>Best, Joel Morris
>-------------------------------
>CityCenter Co.
>Website Development & Marketing
>http://www.citycent.com
>mailto:joelm at citycent.com
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read? I'm coming from a
>Microsoft
>centric background - ASP, MSSQL2000, all on Windows servers running
>IIS5.
>I'd like to work toward a Unix/Apache platform, but to begin with I'd
>like
>to get comfortable with PHP and MySQL.
>
>I've read the docs, and even developed a playground at
>http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/php/ so I'm not a complete newbie,
>but
>close.
>
>joel
>
>
>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From chris at fuseware.com  Fri Oct 11 15:14:01 2002
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS 2 column layout, relative positioning
Message-ID: <3da73331@fuseware.com>

I know this is probably a newbie question, but I'm trying to get two
divs to line up next to each other without using absolute positioning.
I basically want the second div to take its position relative to the
upper right corner of the first div.

Any thoughts?
--
Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Oct 11 15:26:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS 2 column layout, relative positioning
In-Reply-To: <3da73331@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCEPPCLAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Chris,

Check this out:

http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/basic2_fixed.html

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> I know this is probably a newbie question, but I'm trying to get two
> divs to line up next to each other without using absolute positioning.
> I basically want the second div to take its position relative to the
> upper right corner of the first div.
>
> Any thoughts?
> --
> Chris Evans
> chris at fuseware.com
> http://www.fuseware.com


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Oct 11 15:28:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS 2 column layout, relative positioning
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB29@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Evans [mailto:chris at fuseware.com]
> Sent: October 11, 2002 4:13 PM

> I know this is probably a newbie question, but I'm trying to
> get two divs to line up next to each other without using
> absolute positioning. I basically want the second div to take
> its position relative to the upper right corner of the first div.

Won't be able to use relative positioning as the top of the second div
is relative to the height of the first. Try applying "float: left" to
the divs, otherwise you'll need to use absolute positioning on the
second.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Fri Oct 11 15:36:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
In-Reply-To: <14620719362.20021011145640@airtightweb.com>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNEEPHCGAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

I found the Sitepoint book to be really excellent, but I
was a complete newbie to database-driven web programming,
although I knew other programming languages. I think Joel
might be looking for a higher level book, to learn how to
structure PHP and MySQL and what their built-in functions
are.
Is that right Joel?
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris
Montgomery
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 3:57 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?


Howdy Joel,

Friday, October 11, 2002, 11:14:03 AM, Joel Canfield
wrote:

JC> What's the best PHP/MySQL book you've read?

I have the book advertised here by Kevin Yank:
http://sitepoint.com/books/?bookid=banner1

I haven't finished reading it, but it seems pretty
straightforward.
Also, SitePoint has lots of PHP/MySQL stuff here:
http://www.webmasterbase.com/subcats/53

Cheers.

Chris Montgomery        monty @ airtightweb.com

--
Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
210-490-3249/888-745-7603

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Oct 11 15:50:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] recursive database design discussion
Message-ID: <01c27167$b023c6a0$b25d1dd1@rudy>

hi jacques, sorry for the delay in answering

the second method is better -- use a recursive structure rather than
separate tables for organizations, departments, and groups

yes, the queries to access the same table three times will be tricky, but
they will be no more complex than the queries involving three separate
tables

there are plenty of examples on the web for code to process the recursive
hierarchy, holler if you need any of them

queries such as which user has access to which group are actually simpler

rudy



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Fri Oct 11 15:50:18 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:50:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
In-Reply-To: <3da73331@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAMEGFDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

Okay...

In my experience, using absolute positioning with CSS has
almost always allowed me to create a site design once and
have it be nearly 100% reliable in its presentation in
all the 5.x browsers out there. Minor tweaks generally
required, but no sweat.

Using relative positioning, however, wreaks all sorts of
havoc and causes ensuing madness.

However, my understanding is that the ONLY way you can get
honest-to-goodness centered layouts (which I happen to
love from a design perspective most of the time) is to use
relative positioning.

Anyone know of a centered table-free css design trick that
will allow me to do so using absolute positioning?

Specifically, I am looking for a solution that will allow
me to create a master bounding box for the layout, within
which I can add columns, rows, images, etc.

Actually code or pointers to some resource for such would
be much appreciated.


Many Thanks,

Anthony




From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Oct 11 15:59:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Oct 11 15:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB2A@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Baker [mailto:lists at thinkbigideas.com]
> Sent: October 11, 2002 5:01 PM

> Specifically, I am looking for a solution that will allow
> me to create a master bounding box for the layout, within
> which I can add columns, rows, images, etc.

Try:
 #boundingbox { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 10%; width: 80%; }
(width = left x 2)

Works in IE 5.5, and Moz 1.2

> Actually code or pointers to some resource for such would
> be much appreciated.

A work in progress, but this might help you.
<http://www.saila.com/attic/sandbox/3column-center.html>

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Oct 11 16:04:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Oct 11 16:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C511B@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saila, Craig
> Sent: October 11, 2002 4:58 PM

>  #boundingbox { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 10%; width:
> 80%; }
> (width = left x 2)

Err...that should be:
 100% - (left x 2) = width

--
Cheers,

Craig "Mathematically-Challenged" Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From pabramow at web.net  Fri Oct 11 16:06:01 2002
From: pabramow at web.net (Peter Abramowicz)
Date: Fri Oct 11 16:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS 2 column layout, relative positioning
References: <3da73331@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <01f501c27169$fa8992e0$0d6f6bd1@peter>

Hi Chris,

Check this article on CSS positioning -
http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/wpd1002.htm#feature, it will answer your
question plus some you haven't thought about yet.

PeterA.

> I know this is probably a newbie question, but I'm trying to get two
> divs to line up next to each other without using absolute positioning.
> I basically want the second div to take its position relative to the
> upper right corner of the first div.




From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Fri Oct 11 16:50:01 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 16:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
References: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAMEGFDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>
Message-ID: <003901c2716f$f9ee2e80$0201a8c0@yoda>

> In my experience, using absolute positioning with CSS has
> almost always allowed me to create a site design once and
> have it be nearly 100% reliable in its presentation in
> all the 5.x browsers out there. Minor tweaks generally
> required, but no sweat.

OK!

> Using relative positioning, however, wreaks all sorts of
> havoc and causes ensuing madness.

How so?

> However, my understanding is that the ONLY way you can get
> honest-to-goodness centered layouts (which I happen to
> love from a design perspective most of the time) is to use
> relative positioning.

No, any _positioned_ element can be centered.

> Anyone know of a centered table-free css design trick that
> will allow me to do so using absolute positioning?

Yes, but you'll have to provide more info.

> Specifically, I am looking for a solution that will allow
> me to create a master bounding box for the layout, within
> which I can add columns, rows, images, etc.

Does this master box require fixed or fluid width (see Craig's post)?

> Actually code or pointers to some resource for such would
> be much appreciated.

Are you perhaps referring to vertical centering?

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------


From brian at brianreaves.com  Fri Oct 11 17:00:01 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Reloading
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILKENDDCAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

http://www.beachrentalvacations.com/temp/
I included the NS 4X resize fix in the body tag for this page and the page
reloaded over and over in NS 4x. There are 3 forms on the page and they are
causing the problem. If I remove all of them it stops, but if I remove 1 or
2 of them the reloading continues.
Please advise...

TIA,
B.




From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Fri Oct 11 17:23:00 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Fri Oct 11 17:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
In-Reply-To: <003901c2716f$f9ee2e80$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAAEGKDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

Lonnie,

Craig's post was definitely helpful.

I am specifically referring to horizontal centering, not vertical.
On many of my sites, I'll create something like a 760px wide box,
within which all graphics, navigation, copy, etc. will reside. It
will usually contain multiple columns for text, and for some of
the graphics to reside.

I wish to steer clear of relative positioning, and stick to
absolute positioning wherever possible. Again, my experience
has been that relative positioning generally requires more
cross-browser tweaking than absolute.

All graphics and whatnot are positioned by the pixel from the
LEFT and TOP on the page. Again, when you're starting your
positioning from the left edge and top edge of the browser, all
of this is really easy to do.

But, if I create a bounding box and center that to the browser,
which in Craig's suggestion would be by a PERCENTAGE distance
from the left (and an absolute width for the box itself), then
the absolute positioning of elements WITHIN the box from the
left edge would also have to be based on a percentage, as well.

In relative positioning, I can position items relative to the
left edge of the bounding box itself, but insofar as I know,
this sort of thing is not possible using absolute positioning.

What I'd like to know is if there's any solution to doing the
centering of the bounding box AND use absolute positioning for
all elements within that box.

Don't know. Maybe not. But, I thought I'd ask.

And, of course, I hope that this is all making sense. Who
knows, maybe I'm being confusing...


Thanks,

Anthony


From lists at tntluoma.com  Fri Oct 11 18:28:01 2002
From: lists at tntluoma.com (Timothy J. Luoma)
Date: Fri Oct 11 18:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805B5@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <3DA71692.4040705@tntluoma.com>

<cite class="title">PHP and MySQL Web Development</cite> by <cite
class="author">Luke Welling</cite> and <cite class="author">Laura
Thomson</cite> seems to be a book that a lot of folks have liked.

I have it and it seems to be v.good, but I just haven't had the time to
devote to reading it lately.

The problem with a lot of PHP books and tutorials is that many of them
were written with the expectation that register_globals would be ON and
it is now OFF by default, and there are some new ways (4.2.x and later,
I think) to reference variables.

So I wrote a PHP script on one server running 4.02 and it failed on
another running 4.22 or whatever.

Anyway, just something of which to be aware.

TjL

--
The homepage is the place where,
when you have to go there,
you have a lot to take in.
(With apologies to Frost.)




From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Fri Oct 11 18:41:01 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 18:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
References: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAAEGKDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>
Message-ID: <007b01c2717f$87b708e0$0201a8c0@yoda>

> I am specifically referring to horizontal centering, not vertical.
> On many of my sites, I'll create something like a 760px wide box,
> within which all graphics, navigation, copy, etc. will reside. It
> will usually contain multiple columns for text, and for some of
> the graphics to reside.
>
> I wish to steer clear of relative positioning, and stick to
> absolute positioning wherever possible. Again, my experience
> has been that relative positioning generally requires more
> cross-browser tweaking than absolute.
>
> All graphics and whatnot are positioned by the pixel from the
> LEFT and TOP on the page. Again, when you're starting your
> positioning from the left edge and top edge of the browser, all
> of this is really easy to do.
>
> But, if I create a bounding box and center that to the browser,
> which in Craig's suggestion would be by a PERCENTAGE distance
> from the left (and an absolute width for the box itself), then
> the absolute positioning of elements WITHIN the box from the
> left edge would also have to be based on a percentage, as well.
>
> In relative positioning, I can position items relative to the
> left edge of the bounding box itself, but insofar as I know,
> this sort of thing is not possible using absolute positioning.
>
> What I'd like to know is if there's any solution to doing the
> centering of the bounding box AND use absolute positioning for
> all elements within that box.
>
> Don't know. Maybe not. But, I thought I'd ask.
>
> And, of course, I hope that this is all making sense. Who
> knows, maybe I'm being confusing...
>


div#boundingbox {
position:relative; /* or absolute */
top:0;
left:50%;
margin-left:-380px; /* centers a 760px _container_ */
}

Now you can nest elements within #boundingbox using position:absolute;
which starts at the top/left of #boundingbox. Remember,
position:absolute; references an element's most recently _positioned_
parent element. This is important. If you don't explicitly position
#boundingbox, any nested element will take absolute positioning to be
(possibly) <body>.

#mygraphic {
position:absolute;
top:10px;
left:10px;
}

<body>
<div id="boundingbox">
<img id="mygraphic" src="" />
</div>

...mygraphic will position absolutely 10px from the top and left of
wherever boundingbox top:0 left;0 is.

--
Lonnie Kraemer
-----------------------------------------



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Fri Oct 11 19:11:01 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Fri Oct 11 19:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape DevEdge Article on Wired Redesign
In-Reply-To: <007b01c2717f$87b708e0$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAGEGMDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

Just came across this link, and thought many of you might
be interested. It's an interview with Douglas Bowman, of
Wired News, on the thought and work behind the redesign
of their site.

More technically deep than the article about the redesign
that they featured on their own site today.

http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2002/wired-interview/


Cheers,

Anthony


From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Fri Oct 11 19:11:18 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (Lonnie.Kraemer)
Date: Fri Oct 11 19:11:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS Centered Layout
References: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAAEGKDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com> <007b01c2717f$87b708e0$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <000d01c27183$bf7956d0$0201a8c0@yoda>

> div#boundingbox {
> position:relative; /* or absolute */
> top:0;
> left:50%;
> margin-left:-380px; /* centers a 760px _container_ */
> }

Oops... for width:

div#boundingbox {
position:relative; /* or absolute */
top:0;
left:50%;
width:760px;
margin-left:-380px; /* centers a 760px _container_ */
}


From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Oct 11 19:52:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Oct 11 19:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Good PHP/MySQL book?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805BA@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> although I knew other programming languages. I think Joel
> might be looking for a higher level book, to learn how to
> structure PHP and MySQL and what their built-in functions
> are. Is that right Joel? Nan

Definitely not looking for a beginner's book; right. I'm real comfortable
with database concepts (else I'd feel a fool writing an evolt.org article on
the sub ;) and I understand the basics of server side languages, etc. Just
looking for the nuts and bolts of PHP/MySQL from, I guess, an intermediate
perspective.

I think I've gotten a good list to choose from.

Thanks, all.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From lists at miinx.com.au  Fri Oct 11 20:06:00 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Submitting to Search Engines
References: <B9CC6358.7D14%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <3DA77592.40607@miinx.com.au>

Cayley Vos wrote:
> I can guarantee you that the add URL feature on google is just for show.
> Since the search engines started, %90 + of all sites submitted to them are
> spam.  I can validate this from being an editor at DMOZ.

Hi Cayley,

No offense, but you clearly need to do some more research.  Read the
Webmaster pages at Google itself - the URL's given by Liam yesterday
will get you there - I would say they have far more authority to be
"guaranteeing" anything about their own methods than you.

Google's "Add Url" feature is another way to get your site onto their
spider's list of crawled domains.  It's not necessary (in fact is
redundant) if you're linked to by another site, however if you're not,
it most definitely helps.  I have submitted brand spanking new sites
there, that have no links from anywhere, (and are not also in DMOZ) and
while it takes a while (up to a few months) to get listed - I can also
"guarantee" that it works, having not done *anything* else to get
listed.  It's not the ideal way, it will take a while, but it does work.

Incidentally, I was an editor at DMOZ too.  This certainly didn't give
me any official status to be going around spreading misleading information.

cheers,
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From prosayist at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 11 20:10:01 2002
From: prosayist at yahoo.com (Dan Stockton)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Open two URLs from one hyperlink?
Message-ID: <20021012011005.17865.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com>

Nadeem asked:
>different solution to this problem:
>click on a link to the sound clip, and for the clip to start playing and
>open new page at the appropriate spot in the interview.

Dan replied:
<a href="new page at the appropriate spot">click here to read the
appropriate spot in the interview and hear the clip at the same time</a>

-contents of "new page at the appropriate spot":
<body>
<bgsound src="soundclip.mp3">
<p>This is the interview, in the appropriate spot.</p>
</body>

(NOTE: the BGSOUND tag is proprietary to MSIE, for NS use EMBED instead)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com


From boardman at manoverboard.com  Fri Oct 11 20:47:01 2002
From: boardman at manoverboard.com (Andrew Boardman)
Date: Fri Oct 11 20:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] 10.2 Apache
Message-ID: <C5485E8C-DD84-11D6-9FA8-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Can anyone out there help me set up an AMP system on my OS X Jaguar G4?
  I'd be willing to pay for services...

A very good weekend,
Andrew.

Andrew Boardman.
MANOVERBOARD.
http://www.manoverboard.com
T 718 809-2085
F 718 504-4070
--



From lists at miinx.com.au  Fri Oct 11 21:44:00 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Reloading
References: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILKENDDCAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <3DA78C89.1080803@miinx.com.au>

Brian W. Reaves wrote:
> http://www.beachrentalvacations.com/temp/
> I included the NS 4X resize fix in the body tag for this page and the page
> reloaded over and over in NS 4x. There are 3 forms on the page and they are
> causing the problem. If I remove all of them it stops, but if I remove 1 or
> 2 of them the reloading continues.
> Please advise...

Hi Brian,

More problems within your code that are probably causing NS to baulk.
Listed here in the order I *think* they're most likely to be the problem:

- there is no such thing as <input type="textbox"> ... change all of
these to <input type="text">

- you've got a 2nd <head></head> section right at the end of your code -
get rid of this, move those meta tags up with the others

- you've got image widths & heights defined incorrectly - don't include
the 'px' in the html tag.  So, change all of these:  <img width="100px"
height="20px">  (or whatever size they are) to <img width="100" height="20">

- move all the contactform stuff (that <form> tag & hidden fields) to
before the <table> tag there, (line 120), and the matching </form> to
after the </table> (line 197)

- use onFocus instead of onClick for the <input type='text'> event
handlers -- onClick is not a default method of these types of fields

- move all the contactform stuff (that <form> tag & hidden fields) to
before the <table> tag there, (line 120), and the matching </form> to
after the </table> (line 197)

Finally, there don't seem to be a style sheet linked in at all.  (this
won't affect your problem tho)

Good luck!
Karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From lists at miinx.com.au  Fri Oct 11 21:54:01 2002
From: lists at miinx.com.au (miinx)
Date: Fri Oct 11 21:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: JavaScript question
References: <129.18d05447.2ad7af6f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3DA78EDF.8020904@miinx.com.au>

Ishmael74 at aol.com wrote:
>                            <body onLoad="myFunction()">
>
> knowing that these are automatic methods that can't be manipulated... i tried
> to use a counter that didnt work... it does nothing in the code now..

hi there,

The function that you're calling above - myFunction() - doesn't exist.
In the code given you've only got a function flashStat()

This tutorial that may help you:
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/29/index2a.html?tw=programming

hth
karen
-------
Miinx Design & Development
e :: karen at miinx.com.au
p :: 0413.880.302
w :: www.miinx.com.au




From abhayk at netsolutionsindia.com  Sat Oct 12 02:00:01 2002
From: abhayk at netsolutionsindia.com (Abhay S. Kushwaha)
Date: Sat Oct 12 02:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS related)
Message-ID: <001101c271bc$c0af4ee0$7000a8c0@prashant>

Whenever we create a CMS system, we bring up a form to manage the
content of a particular page. If the page already exists, the various
fields are populated from the database. There is a nifty button at the
bottom that says "Click to Save" too. Good. Good.

Now, how good an idea is it to add a "Cancel" button just next to the
"Save/Update" button? Something that perhaps executes a JS history(-1)
with a prompt "Any changes will be lost. Do you want to continue?".

Personally I'm very strongly inclined to put it up because it gives
what Jacob Nielson says "extra feeling of safety that is not afforded
by simply leaving" [1]. Sometimes I go overboard and put it up even in
those "Change Password" screens.

But I want to know what the general trend these days is.
What is your opinion about it?

[abhay]

---
[1] http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html



From peterl at standingwave.org  Sat Oct 12 02:57:00 2002
From: peterl at standingwave.org (Peter Loron)
Date: Sat Oct 12 02:57:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] 10.2 Apache
In-Reply-To: <C5485E8C-DD84-11D6-9FA8-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>
Message-ID: <298E34C5-DDB8-11D6-AC10-00306542D4F0@standingwave.org>

I'm not quite sure what you're asking help to do, but there are a
number of pre-compiled OS X packages available here:

http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/

I'm guessing that 'AMP' stands for Apache MySQL PHP? If so, that site
has the binaries and instructions you need.

-Pete

On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 06:48 PM, Andrew Boardman wrote:

> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Can anyone out there help me set up an AMP system on my OS X Jaguar G4?
>   I'd be willing to pay for services...
>
> A very good weekend,
> Andrew.
>
> Andrew Boardman.
> MANOVERBOARD.
> http://www.manoverboard.com
> T 718 809-2085
> F 718 504-4070
> --
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From michael at tapinternet.com  Sat Oct 12 06:14:01 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal)
Date: Sat Oct 12 06:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS related)
References: <001101c271bc$c0af4ee0$7000a8c0@prashant>
Message-ID: <3DA805A7.3040901@tapinternet.com>

Abhay S. Kushwaha wrote:

>
>But I want to know what the general trend these days is.
>What is your opinion about it?
>
>
>

We normally implement the same or similar buttons for the 'safety' reasons
you described above.  What we don't do, and what I have thought are
stupid buttons since 1996 are the form 'reset' buttons.  They're usually
right next to 'submit', and don't ask for confirmation, they just
delete everything you've put in to the form.

I wonder how many sales have been lost due to stupidly placed 'RESET'
buttons.




From jspool at uie.com  Sat Oct 12 07:31:01 2002
From: jspool at uie.com (Jared M. Spool)
Date: Sat Oct 12 07:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS 
In-Reply-To: <001101c271bc$c0af4ee0$7000a8c0@prashant>
Message-ID: <200210121230.g9CCUT3P005325@leo.evolt.org>

Abhay wrote:

> Now, how good an idea is it to add a "Cancel" button just next to
> the "Save/Update" button? Something that perhaps executes a JS
> history(-1) with a prompt "Any changes will be lost. Do you want to
> continue?".
>
> But I want to know what the general trend these days is.
> What is your opinion about it?

Here's my opinion. It's worth what you've paid for it.

What *problem* are you solving?

Is this a multi-step process that users have demonstrated they want
to stop in middle? Why are they starting something they want to
subsequently stop?

Are users making an initial investment only to realize they don't
have the right information? Why don't they have that information?

What are the scenarios that would cause someone to stop in the
middle and want to cancel?

Now, I'm not saying that the idea of a cancel button is bad. However,
I'm wondering *why* users would use it. After all, if no-one is going
to use it, why have it?

It seems to me that a button like this is there to correct a problem.
What's the problem and how do you prevent it. I'm much more into
designing for *prevention* than designing for *correction*.

At a minimum, I would think that "Cancel" is probably the wrong
label. It should probably reference the step before and state
outwardly that it isn't saving changes.

If the previous step showed a catalogue of content, where the user
clicked a button that said "Create New Entry", this button could say
"Return to Content Catalogue WITHOUT Creating New Entry". Of course,
you'd probably want your javascript confirmation if the user has made
an investment input data only to press this button. (I wouldn't use
"Yes"/"No" buttons in that confirmation -- I'd use something that is
clear that your abandoning the changes.)

(The Save button probably would also benefit by listing the next
step, such as "Preview and Confirm New Entry", if the next page is a
preview/confirm page. I'm dubious that using the valuable button
real estate to say "Click to xxx" is adding any value for your
audience.)

Of course, all of this is opinion. I wouldn't make any such changes
until I've watched users to determine what is actually happening when
they are creating/modifying content in the CMS. All the effort for
implementation might be a waste if your not solving a problem, so
what is the problem?

Hope this helps.

Jared



From n at industriality.com  Sat Oct 12 08:13:01 2002
From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm)
Date: Sat Oct 12 08:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Automatically generating static pages
Message-ID: <3DA81F7F.4060409@industriality.com>

Hi all,

I'm working on a fully dynamic site using urls like www.site.com?a=b
which I now want to optimize for better search engine consumption. Up
until now the main seach engines such as google have not managed to
crawl the site, probably because they have been put off by these dynamic
urls.

I have toyed with using an ISAPI filter on our IIS5 server to
automatically translate search engine friendly urls like
www.site.com/a/b into something my pages will understand, but this
causes problems of absolute/relative urls in file paths and web forms
and seems a bit more drastic than I can justify.

Therefore I am currently looking into the alternative possibility of
generating static html pages from some of the main pages in my site.
That seems better, because they are not likely to change that often
anyway. Obviously that would only make sense if this process could be
fully automated, say on a daily basis.

I'm using asp.net and I could imagine achieving this by writing a few
scripts that save the output stream of a given page into a file with an
html extension and then running these scripts automatically using
Windows Scheduled Tasks or something like that.

Does that sound like a sensible plan ? Does anyone have any experience
with that ? Are there any ready-made tools available that can do this ?

Thanks

--
/nik



From waxplanet at sunflower.com  Sat Oct 12 08:51:01 2002
From: waxplanet at sunflower.com (Janet FitzGerald)
Date: Sat Oct 12 08:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Automatic Print .PDF?
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDD@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <001301c271f6$50d31720$e93b7c18@waxplanetdell>

Evolters,

I was wondering if it's possible to code a page to automatically print a
.pdf when the user tries to File/Print from the browser.  We are
building an online gallery that has a printable .pdf.  We don't want the
user to inadvertently print the web page thinking they are printing the
.pdf.  Does that make sense?

Janet



From dave at stemfiction.com  Sat Oct 12 10:10:01 2002
From: dave at stemfiction.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Sat Oct 12 10:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] content not being displayed
Message-ID: <011d01c27201$5d3f04a0$43ede783@lsdas>

Hi,

In the new site for my band I am designing at http://www.stemfiction.com I
have a problem.

In the audio section > http://www.stemfiction.com/?section=media&sub=audio
The content of the central <div> is too large to fit on one screen, so it
should scroll. However, it only scrolls a bit, the rest of the text is not
displayed - though it is in the code if you click view source.

The whole site runs off a single .css file (for now) at
http://www.stemfiction.com/css/main.css and I have tried adding overflow:
visible; to all the involved elements - the relatively positioned <div>, the
table cell its in, etc.

No idea why its doing this - can anyone help? Could it be because it is
being php-included in to the main page?

Cheers,
Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com



From neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom  Sat Oct 12 10:21:00 2002
From: neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom (Neil Lee)
Date: Sat Oct 12 10:21:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS
	related)
In-Reply-To: <001101c271bc$c0af4ee0$7000a8c0@prashant>
Message-ID: <B9CDA712.C1B8%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>

> Personally I'm very strongly inclined to put it up because it gives
> what Jacob Nielson says "extra feeling of safety that is not afforded
> by simply leaving" [1]. Sometimes I go overboard and put it up even in
> those "Change Password" screens.

IMHO "cancel" or "reset" form widgets are totally useless. If usability
studies that I've been a part of are any indication, the only time users
actually use the "reset" button for a form is if they accidentally mistook
it for the "commit" button.

I think what's more useful is a summary page after the user has submitted
their information. This page would give a clear, scannable view of what the
system has captured from the form. The user then has an opportunity to
either "confirm" or "edit" the information.

Neil
---
Slumming at the beatnikPad : http://www.beatnikpad.com/
Working at theNonsuch: http://reblog.thenonsuch.com/
e-mail: webify at thenonsuch.com | Amit?.



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 11:02:00 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Automatic Print .PDF?
In-Reply-To: <001301c271f6$50d31720$e93b7c18@waxplanetdell>
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E00142AFDD@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3DA80E69.6939.16F51200@localhost>

> From: "Janet FitzGerald" <waxplanet at sunflower.com>
>
> I was wondering if it's possible to code a page to automatically print
> a .pdf when the user tries to File/Print from the browser.  We are
> building an online gallery that has a printable .pdf.  We don't want
> the user to inadvertently print the web page thinking they are
> printing the .pdf.  Does that make sense?

well, no, not quite...

the browser will try to print the page it sees, and as far as i know,
there is no scripting to modify that behavior (thankfully)...

what you might want to consider is telling the user that there is a
PDF available for the page being viewed, and that it's much nicer...

or consider using a 'printer' icon which, when clicked, beings up the
PDF (perhaps in a new window?)... of course, you need to manage the
user's expectations before you push a 500k PDF down their 56k line...
consider an alert, a tooltip, text beneath the icon, etc...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 11:06:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS related)
In-Reply-To: <3DA805A7.3040901@tapinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3DA80F52.11618.16F89FD3@localhost>

> From: Michael Kimsal <michael at tapinternet.com>
[...]
> reasons you described above.  What we don't do, and what I have
> thought are stupid buttons since 1996 are the form 'reset' buttons.
> They're usually right next to 'submit', and don't ask for
> confirmation, they just delete everything you've put in to the form.

'reset' buttons are supposed to return the form to the original state
it was in when the page was loaded -- which means if you loaded a
page with a form that was pre-filled, it would return to those values
in the fields...

> I wonder how many sales have been lost due to stupidly placed 'RESET'
> buttons.

or cancel buttons...

cancel buttons being more dangerous since they often don't come with
a confirm, and have too little dead space between them and the submit
button...

and with developers not consistently placing them from app to app,
users may try to click the first button (your cancel button) because
on their favorite site, the submit button is the first button...

er...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 11:09:03 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:09:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Usability] Cancel button in forms (typically CMS related)
In-Reply-To: <001101c271bc$c0af4ee0$7000a8c0@prashant>
Message-ID: <3DA80FF3.15092.16FB1390@localhost>

> From: "Abhay S. Kushwaha" <abhayk at netsolutionsindia.com>
[...]
> Now, how good an idea is it to add a "Cancel" button just next to the
> "Save/Update" button? Something that perhaps executes a JS history(-1)
> with a prompt "Any changes will be lost. Do you want to continue?".
>
> Personally I'm very strongly inclined to put it up because it gives
> what Jacob Nielson says "extra feeling of safety that is not afforded
> by simply leaving" [1]. Sometimes I go overboard and put it up even in
> those "Change Password" screens.
[...]

how savvy are your users?  for some users, there could be value to
it... for some, it could be just a button taking up space that might
accidentally get clicked...

granted, the forward button could reverse the problem, but will your
users know this?

i've found that in our CMS, our users don't need that -- it only
confuses the issue... they are savvy enough to know that clicking a
link to take them elsewhere in the system doesn't commit changes...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 11:30:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Wired News Site Update - What do you think?
In-Reply-To: <01c27141$b192dc40$LocalHost@rudy>
Message-ID: <3DA814E0.32302.170E5093@localhost>

> From: "rudy" <p428 at interlog.com>
>
> >http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,55675,00.html
>
> woohoo!!    thanks for letting us know, bob
>
> i'm surprised that there hasn't been any comment on this here yet

well, i *was* looking under the hood, but ben gustafson already found
some of the font sizing stuff i was starting to look at...  they'll
be more chatter over the weekend...

> wired is a huge site, both in terms of the number of pages that had to
> be converted -- people, think about it, how long would it take you to
> convert a huge site to a tableless design? never mind coming up with
> bullet-proof templates based on css, just the sheer work of conversion
> -- and also in terms of bandwidth, because apparently they get 20-25
> million page hits a month (to borrow a number posted by eric meyer on
> another list)

erm, *if* their CMS is good enough, and they've properly developed
their templates in the past, and left nasty mark-up out of their core
content, then it's actually not as hard as you might think...

you test the templates, you replace the templates, you test your most
extreme pages and work back up the tree...

i've got a couple sites with thousands of pages where a template
change (once the template itself was tested) was a half hour task,
and then all the pages were done... of course, i helped build the
CMS, and coded all the pages, and ensured people weren't embedding
crap HTML into their content...

granted, that development and testing is the time sink... *i'd* be
more interested in their dev/testing process...

> i'm pumped about it, and i don't even like wired

this isn't one of those things that's really going to help the
argument to convert all sites, though... just as zeldman's redesign
didn't *really* change the way browsers run or upgrade anyone's
systems, this isn't going to really affect anyone outside of their
readers -- generally a net/tech-savvy bunch already...

i'd be interested in seeing their browser stats and how they compare
to, say, a bank's traffic, or a car dealer, or a site that sells
small monkeys to big monkeys...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From transmitter at pixel-industries.com  Sat Oct 12 11:48:00 2002
From: transmitter at pixel-industries.com (PXL Transmitter)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringement?
In-Reply-To: <3DA814E0.32302.170E5093@localhost>
Message-ID: <B9CE1EB3.18125%transmitter@pixel-industries.com>

Hello,

Web designers, editors, authors, publishers etc. should have the ability to
decide if they wish to protect their web site content.

As the author and publisher of a web site. I wish to have the possibility to
include a meta-tag on my web pages for example which prevents browsers to
view the source code and the links on my web pages. Web site visitors would
only see the top level-domain of the appropriate web site. This meta tag
would make browsers a "read-only" application such as the Adobe Acrobat PDF
format.

As with PDF documents and Macromedia flash files, the viewer does not have
the ability to have a closer insight on *how* the layout has been formatted.
Besides, users do not have the possibility to select text information of a
document.

I believe, web site authors and publishers should have the right to decide
weather they wish to keep their web pages "open-source" or not.

Some web site design and its development requires a notable amount of time
and know-how to be produced. This time and effort which has been
investigated belongs entirely to the intellectual property of the designer,
producer, editor, internet application developer, IT company etc.

The current browser standards do not offer *any* security issues for
authors, publishers, artists and other companies to protect their content in
order to prevent web site piracy and copyright infringements.

I would be inerested to hear your opinions on this subject.


graphically yours,


Marc Kle?n - PXL Operator




Pixel:Industries                            PXL Design Portal
The art of visual communication             http://www.pixel-industries.com



From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Oct 12 11:59:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Sat Oct 12 11:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringe
	ment?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805BD@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Web designers, editors, authors, publishers etc. should have
> the ability to decide if they wish to protect their web site content.

Should, yes. And if you create your entire site dynamically on the server
and send only plain HTML to the browser, no one will be able to suss your
amazing and proprietary advances in the field of web design.

[ . . . ]

> The current browser standards do not offer *any* security
> issues for authors, publishers, artists and other companies
> to protect their content in order to prevent web site piracy
> and copyright infringements.
>
> I would be inerested to hear your opinions on this subject.

I think it's just as likely as printing companies devising a way to prevent
the photocopying of copyrighted material in books or magazines, or, more
immediately, as likely as the music and video industry creating an effective
way to prevent unauthorised duplication of copyrighted artistic endeavours.

If we're going to dream, instead of dreaming about how we prevent theft,
let's dream about a world where no one would even consider it . . .

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Sat Oct 12 12:03:02 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:03:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
Message-ID: <000001c27211$2cbe1360$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

Hi all

I work on an intranet and have always been strictly standards based.  I
was wondering which of the many people on the list that develop
intranets use any proprietary browser code (whether it be ActiveX for
IE, html, css etc) and if so, why.

Cheers

Francis




From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Oct 12 12:23:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805BE@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I work on an intranet and have always been strictly standards
> based.  I was wondering which of the many people on the list
> that develop intranets use any proprietary browser code
> (whether it be ActiveX for IE, html, css etc) and if so, why.

We have an extensive intranet which has grown in a decidedly IE centric
manner. As our network has become more Unix oriented, I'm regretting the IE
bias. My original reasoning was that since I set the browser standard (and
that's not likely to change as long as I'm with the company) I'll have
control. What I didn't take into account was external forces over which I
had no control.

One issue that would have arisen anyway is that a few of our 3rd party IT
tools are very IE centric, using ActiveX, etc. The only way we'll get around
that is to rebuild the tools ourselves, or implement Citrix or some other
suitable Windows access from Unix boxen.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From lists at tntluoma.com  Sat Oct 12 12:34:01 2002
From: lists at tntluoma.com (Timothy J. Luoma)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringement?
Message-ID: <3DA85CF1.7060704@tntluoma.com>

 > PXL Transmitter wrote: Hello,

Hi.  You didn't start a new thread (hitting 'reply' and then changing
the subject doesn't really start a new thread) and your message might be
missed by people using mailers which collapse threads.

So I started a new thread, and quoted more than I normally would, in
case people missed the original.


 > Web designers, editors, authors, publishers etc. should have the
 > ability to decide if they wish to protect their web site content.

I have mixed feelings about this.

I started writing web pages by View Source and copy & paste.  I suspect
a lot of others did too.

 > As the author and publisher of a web site. I wish to have the
 > possibility to include a meta-tag on my web pages for example which
 > prevents browsers to view the source code and the links on my web
 > pages. Web site visitors would only see the top level-domain of the
 > appropriate web site. This meta tag would make browsers a "read-only"
 > application such as the Adobe Acrobat PDF format.

My guess is that anyone with determination could still edit a PDF file
marked 'read only'

 > As with PDF documents and Macromedia flash files, the viewer does not
 > have the ability to have a closer insight on *how* the layout has been
 > formatted. Besides, users do not have the possibility to select text
 > information of a document.

True, but other vector formats will be text-based, right?


 > I believe, web site authors and publishers should have the right to
 > decide weather they wish to keep their web pages "open-source" or not.

If it wasn't for the open source movement and open standards, you
couldn't have a web page in the first place.


 > Some web site design and its development requires a notable amount of
 > time and know-how to be produced. This time and effort which has been
 > investigated belongs entirely to the intellectual property of the
 > designer, producer, editor, internet application developer, IT company
 > etc.

Real question: shall we start to pay royalties to sendmail and Apache folks?


 > The current browser standards do not offer *any* security issues for
 > authors, publishers, artists and other companies to protect their
 > content in order to prevent web site piracy and copyright
 > infringements.

True.

 > I would be interested to hear your opinions on this subject.

I'm almost always in favor of choice.  However, I worry about what would
happen with new ideas if they were all thought about as "capital".

<hypothetical>
If you need help with something on your site, and I give you a tip that
helps make your site work better in Opera, will you share that part of
the source code with others, or will it all be blocked?  What gives you
the right to block others from seeing what was freely given to you?  How
will you make the distinction?
</hypothetical>

It has the possibility to squash a lot of what I love about the web.

On the other hand, I agree with the fact that if you spend 10 weeks on a
site design, it can suck that someone else comes along and steals it in
10 seconds.


You raised the question well, although I don't know if we will get
anywhere with it.

TjL, currently trying to learn the DOM & JS and benefitting greatly from
being able to see others' code





From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 12 12:35:00 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions
Message-ID: <F127IwB83RRtKqyRa7w0001c6a8@hotmail.com>



>On dinsdag, okt 8, 2002, at 13:32 Europe/Brussels, Peter-Paul Koch
>wrote:
>Under preferences > file types, choose add and go find the files it
>won't open.
>Now BBedit should open them all.
>
>>
>>2) How do I do a word count of a file?
>
>You'll find that under Window > Get info

Dank je! Helaas begrijp ik de File Types niet zo goed, ik kan hier niets
invullen. Maar de word count werkt prima.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 12 12:40:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Two BBEdit questions - sorry
Message-ID: <F96n3nydsAr0Yr6INk20001c3e1@hotmail.com>



>Dank je! Helaas begrijp ik de File Types niet zo goed, ik kan hier niets
>invullen. Maar de word count werkt prima.

Sorry, this was supposed to go to Maurice privately.

<tip type="list margins and paddings" author="ppk">
Ever tried to change the default margins and paddings of ul's and li's? Most
probably you discovered some nasty browser incompatibilities.
The trick: first set all margins and paddings to 0 (the list bullets will
disappear), and then set the properties of your choice. Now all browsers
will show the same styles.
</tip>

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 12:41:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
In-Reply-To: <000001c27211$2cbe1360$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <3DA825A5.22207.174FD250@localhost>

> From: "fstorr" <fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk>
[...]
> I work on an intranet and have always been strictly standards based.
> I was wondering which of the many people on the list that develop
> intranets use any proprietary browser code (whether it be ActiveX for
> IE, html, css etc) and if so, why.

i've worked on a number of intranets (and extranets that have browser
requirements)...

i've used a good amount of JS to code DHTML menus that won't look
quite so good in other browsers, or even work in older browsers (3.x
and below)...

i've used CSS to create 'greyed out' image buttons (column sort
buttons, mostly) by using proprietary alpha filters in CSS...

JS to create alerts with code to trim textareas to a max character
limit, or JS to move a user from one field to the next (when entering
an SSN, for example) without having to tab...

i even had to use a <marquee> once to create a scrolling news ticker
for one client...

yeah, i've had my fair share of proprietary, invalid, or non-
degrading code stuffed into some of my projects...

it's an issue of knowing your audience, after all, and if an
organization has standardized on a particular browser, creating work-
arounds in scripts to handle for other browsers is, well, a waste of
the client's money...

of course, you still should attempt ti future-proof your work...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom  Sat Oct 12 12:48:01 2002
From: neil at N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom (Neil Lee)
Date: Sat Oct 12 12:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
In-Reply-To: <000001c27211$2cbe1360$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <B9CDCA68.C1CD%neil@N0SP4M.thenonsuchcom>

> I work on an intranet and have always been strictly standards based.  I
> was wondering which of the many people on the list that develop
> intranets use any proprietary browser code (whether it be ActiveX for
> IE, html, css etc) and if so, why.

I think the idea is to plan for the future. You never know if the CEO might,
at some point, say, "Let's open up this section of our Intranet to our
clients." (Which, of course, happens all too often.)

If you've incorporated a lot of browser-specific technology into your
intranet, the amount of resources required to make everything play nice "in
the wild" might make you wish you hadn't. It's easier to just make sure
everything is standards-based and compatible from the beginning /just in
case/.

There's nothing more infuriating and forehead-slapping than having to go
back and revisit old code because of lack of foresight.

---
Slumming at the beatnikPad : http://www.beatnikpad.com/
Working at theNonsuch: http://reblog.thenonsuch.com/
e-mail: webify at thenonsuch.com | Amit?.



From clive at designshift.com  Sat Oct 12 13:45:01 2002
From: clive at designshift.com (Clive R Sweeney)
Date: Sat Oct 12 13:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
Message-ID: <000501c2721f$65e36830$27773e04@DSHIFT>

Just fixing a few last glitches in a revamped site for Mount Olive
College - http://www.moc.edu/index.cfm - and the validation works fine
on most pages as hosted on our staging server, but on the actual Mount
Olive site I get a warning as follows: "Warning: Character Encoding
mismatch! The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (<utf-8>)
is different from the one specified in the META element (<iso-8859-1>).
I will use <utf-8> for this validation."

I found the following explanation on
http://linuxquality.sunsite.dk/articles/validationtest/:

"The <meta> declaration is needed when posting the page on most web
sites because those sites' web servers do not declare a character
encoding explicitly in the HTTP headers. However, some web servers do
provide an explicit character encoding, and a server provides one, it
might conflict with the one declared in the <meta> element. This may
confuse both web browsers and validators.

"What you should do in that case is either remove the explicit <meta>
element character encoding declaration from your copy of the document,
or change it to match the character encoding declared in the web
server's HTTP headers."

Is this good advice, or should I leave the character encoding as it is?


... clive



From clive at designshift.com  Sat Oct 12 13:45:14 2002
From: clive at designshift.com (Clive R Sweeney)
Date: Sat Oct 12 13:45:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] Ampersands in URLs
Message-ID: <000601c2721f$86e9b110$27773e04@DSHIFT>

A few of my pages have hyperlinks with URLs containing ampersands. This
yields an "unknown entity" error in the W3C Validator. It's not a big
deal, but just to tidy up, is there an easy way to escape the ampersand?


... clive




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 13:56:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Oct 12 13:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
In-Reply-To: <000001c27211$2cbe1360$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGELCHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

francis,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: fstorr
>
> I work on an intranet and have always been strictly
> standards based.  I was wondering which of the many
> people on the list that develop intranets use any
> proprietary browser code (whether it be ActiveX for
> IE, html, css etc) and if so, why.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yes.  site administration tools and/or intranets have been developed exclusively for win/ie.  for one, it drastically reduces development time for the typical tools an intranet needs.  for two, some of the third party tools we use to make things easier on our users require win/ie and/or active-x support.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 13:56:11 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 13:56:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] Ampersands in URLs
In-Reply-To: <000601c2721f$86e9b110$27773e04@DSHIFT>
Message-ID: <3DA8373C.18911.17948A18@localhost>

> From: "Clive R Sweeney" <clive at designshift.com>
>
> A few of my pages have hyperlinks with URLs containing ampersands.
> This yields an "unknown entity" error in the W3C Validator. It's not a
> big deal, but just to tidy up, is there an easy way to escape the
> ampersand?

<a href="http://foo.bar/foo.asp?foo=bar&amp;bar=foo">feh</a>

just convert '&' to '&amp;'...

if you're pulling links in dynamically, use your server-side language
to encode the string -- in ASP, you could use server.HTMLEncode()...
most languages have a provision for handling this...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 14:20:01 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sat Oct 12 14:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS bug? can't find it
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012205719.009f2e50@mail.nota-bene.org>

Hi all,

I've somehow revamped my site, yes it doesn't validate, I know all that,
it's only a temporary revamp, but I stumbled upon a CSS problem that I
can't seem to fix.

The other day one of our fellow listers told us about www.ey.nl and how he
achieves multi-columning in a nice and quite complex layout with CSS.

So here on http://www.nota-bene.org/

I did a simple two-columns-within-the-body layout, and for some reason IE
(5.5 and 6 on win98) doesn't manage to display the 2 columns side-by-side.

It's as if the columns don't have enough room so they're floated one on top
of the other rather than side-by-side. Stranger: it works in NN6.2.1 and
Moz1.0.

Here is the CSS:

The main body:
#mainBody {margin-left:250px; margin-right:200px; }
(fairly simple, eh?)

The two columns:
div.colonne { width:45%; padding:0px 10px 0px 10px; float:left; }
(yeah, that's french for column ;-))

So. 45%+45% adds up to 90%, which is less than 100% of the container, right?

I feel that maybe IE interprets those percents as relative to the viewport,
and Moz and NS consider those percents as relative to the container
(#mainBody).

Your opinion is most welcome as I am stuck.

s t e f
http://nota-bene.org



From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 14:20:20 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sat Oct 12 14:20:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] Intranets and proprietary code
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGELCHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <000001c27211$2cbe1360$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012211250.00a02120@members.evolt.org>

<who=".jeff" when="11:47 12/10/02 -0700">
>yes.  site administration tools and/or intranets have been developed
>exclusively for win/ie.  for one, it drastically reduces development time
>for the typical tools an intranet needs.  for two, some of the third party
>tools we use to make things easier on our users require win/ie and/or
>active-x support.

Same here although I'm still evangelising for simple ALt and TITLE thingies
before people come to think of one-browser-only.

It's quite funny because our intranet (something like 100,000 PCs, I'm
told) was developed on most intranet web sites with Netscape4 in mind.
Yeah, right.

Then the internal standards organization (you need one in such a big
company) decided that all the sites should be IE-compliant.

He he. Then started the headaches for all those people.

Me? I came at a time when I can just say: "I code for standards, so sue me
if it DOES work in all the browsers, and degrade in some."

Sorry, can't help a little chuckle :-)

s t e f
http://nota-bene.org



From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 14:49:01 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sat Oct 12 14:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Testing for Javascript with PHP
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011215730.032b3580@pop3.bip.net>
References: <MWMail.ntrmkebh@host.none>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012214308.009f8cb0@members.evolt.org>

<who="Liorean" when="22:00 11/10/02 +0200">
>I don't know of such a mechanism (on the other hand I don't know any php),
>but you could always put a script in the page, and set a session variable
>when such a file is requested. Then you can base your php output upon that
>variable.

Alternatively you could do something like that:
- set a cookie with javascript
- try to get the cookie on the next page with PHP

Of course it still doesn't help if people have disabled cookies.

(original idea came up after [was it] aardvark told us about this method to
build a database of screen resolutions: gathering screen width+height via
javascript, putting it in a cookie, and then catching the cookie
server-side for statistical purposes).

s t e f
http://nota-bene.org



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sat Oct 12 15:03:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
Message-ID: <MWMail.jbdecppk@host.none>

>Are you using encrypted passwords or are you passing plain text
>across the connection? You may want to look into encryption
>functions at http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.mcrypt.php.

How do I encrypt the passwords (or any other data for that matter)
without passing them to another page? In other words, how do I send
them encrypted over the network?

I have been reading through the php manual but it seems all greek
to me...


Thanks,
nmk





From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 15:09:01 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright
  infringe ment?
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4805BD@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012215921.009ff510@members.evolt.org>

<who="Joel Canfield" when="09:56 12/10/02 -0700">
>If we're going to dream, instead of dreaming about how we prevent theft,
>let's dream about a world where no one would even consider it . . .

+1

There's a simple thing to remember: Amaya, w3c's browser, is not only a
VIEWER but an EDITING TOOL as well, meaning that the origins of the web
were about collaboration, not wide-audience-heavy-design-sites that we have
today[1]. I can't remember where I read it but it makes sense and explains
why all the sources can be read.

Some people on my intranet tweak all link like such:
- onclick, fill a form via javascript
- submit the form

Submitted pages can't be read in Netscape. Isn't that great? ;-)
In IE of course the source is always visible, and that's great for _my_
debugging :-)

IMHO it's more a side effect of sloppy web coding and understanding of the
media on the part of the developers who did said sites, than a real
decision to make the sources unreadable.

Anyway.
If you don't want your web site to be copied don't show it.

Imagine me looking at your site through a technology that wouldn't allow me
to steal it. What prevents me from redoing it on my Photoshop? Plagiarism
is happening all the time, welcome to the real world, and no offense meant.

s t e f
http://nota-bene.org

[1] Not that I'm complaining, mind you, otherwise I would never have been
able to enter this field.



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 12 15:15:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Testing for Javascript with PHP
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012214308.009f8cb0@members.evolt.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011215730.032b3580@pop3.bip.net>
Message-ID: <3DA8499F.26368.17DC5BBF@localhost>

> From: s t e f <notabene at members.evolt.org>
>
> Alternatively you could do something like that:
> - set a cookie with javascript
> - try to get the cookie on the next page with PHP
>
> (original idea came up after [was it] aardvark told us about this
> method to build a database of screen resolutions: gathering screen
> width+height via javascript, putting it in a cookie, and then catching
> the cookie server-side for statistical purposes).

oh, you mean this:
Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I
http://evolt.org/article/list/17/2295/

but yeah, that's a trick i've used in the past to test for cookie
support... write a cookie on one page, check to see if there's a
cookie on the next page (there's an issue with IE returning a cookie
value in some cases, an article is pending on this, so instead of
testing for the value, i just test to make sure it's not null)...

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From lists at tntluoma.com  Sat Oct 12 15:22:00 2002
From: lists at tntluoma.com (Timothy J. Luoma)
Date: Sat Oct 12 15:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
References: <000501c2721f$65e36830$27773e04@DSHIFT>
Message-ID: <3DA88453.5030109@tntluoma.com>

Clive R Sweeney wrote:

> "What you should do in that case is either remove the explicit <meta>
> element character encoding declaration from your copy of the document,
> or change it to match the character encoding declared in the web
> server's HTTP headers."
>
> Is this good advice, or should I leave the character encoding as it is?


a) you should have them match, at least
b) you might consider dropping the META tag
c) if you drop the META tag and someone saves the page, it no longer has
the character encoding information with it
d) unless you use extended UTF-8 characters in the document itself, (c)
won't matter all that much in reality

TjL

--
The homepage is the place where,
when you have to go there,
you have a lot to take in.
(With apologies to Frost.)




From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Sat Oct 12 16:12:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Sat Oct 12 16:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
References: <000501c2721f$65e36830$27773e04@DSHIFT>
Message-ID: <003301c27233$ec727da0$6601a8c0@jakibyard>

Clive,

> Just fixing a few last glitches in a revamped site for Mount Olive
> College - http://www.moc.edu/index.cfm - and the validation works fine
> on most pages as hosted on our staging server, but on the actual Mount
> Olive site I get a warning as follows: "Warning: Character Encoding
> mismatch! The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (<utf-8>)
> is different from the one specified in the META element (<iso-8859-1>).
> I will use <utf-8> for this validation."
>

CFMX outputs utf-8 by default, thats where the mismatch is coming from.

You can put this at the top of your Application.cfm file, to change the
output to ISO-8859-1

<cfcontent type="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
then you can leave your meta tag alone.

this is of course, if your site uses ISO-8859-1 and not utf-8....


hth,

nagrom



From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Sat Oct 12 16:46:01 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Sat Oct 12 16:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.jbdecppk@host.none>
Message-ID: <KIECJFDIGJOFCMFKDEKBEEJNDFAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

>How do I encrypt the passwords (or any other data for that matter)
>without passing them to another page? In other words, how do I send
>them encrypted over the network?
>
>I have been reading through the php manual but it seems all greek
>to me...

I haven't been following this thread so don't know what the application is
or what you are trying to achieve... but you could try sending the page to
$PHP_SELF in the action of a form. The page will have a submit test. You'll
need to name the submit button like so:

print ("input type=\"Submit\" value=\"submit\" name=\"submit\">\n");

TO test it on the page...

if ($submit) {
// do stuff
}

But don't forget, and this is a BIG sin committed by loads of sites, that
there is little or no point using encrypted data for "security" if the data
has been entered on a non secured connection. You might encrypt them after
they've been sniffed in the plain text send...

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sat Oct 12 17:01:01 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Sat Oct 12 17:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
Message-ID: <MWMail.nkqdcrak@host.none>

>But don't forget, and this is a BIG sin committed by loads of
>sites, that there is little or no point using encrypted data for
>"security" if the data has been entered on a non secured
>connection.
> You might encrypt them after they've been sniffed in the plain
> text send...

my point exactly... what is the point of encrypting the data on the
page I actually want to use it??

the data I enter in a form is sent form my computer to the server
in unecrypted form (unless using an SSL connection) anyway and
there is nothing you can actually do about it, right?

nmk



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 17:03:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Oct 12 17:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Login Security
In-Reply-To: <KIECJFDIGJOFCMFKDEKBEEJNDFAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGELFHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

liam,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Liam Delahunty
>
> [...] But don't forget, and this is a BIG sin committed
> by loads of sites, that there is little or no point
> using encrypted data for "security" if the data has been
> entered on a non secured connection.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

are you talking about a form that sits on a non-secure page posting to a secure page?  if so, then you're mistaken.  so long as the data is posted to a secure page, the data is encrypted.  it doesn't matter one bit whether the page the data was posted from is secure or not.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sat Oct 12 17:36:00 2002
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Sat Oct 12 17:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] on MySQL and password()
Message-ID: <MWMail.otlijbtb@host.none>

Hi all,

This one has got me scratching my head...

I do enter with phpmyadmin a string and use the password function
on it... How do I get the value of the string back? Or better, how
do I compare user input to that value...?

I thought this would work and form what I have read it should work
(providing the field where the string is entered is called "pass"):

"... where pass = password('$inputted_var')!"

Even if I do enter the value directly as a parameter in the
password function it plain doesn't work...

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks in advance,
nmk



From djinn at darkdesigns.org  Sat Oct 12 17:46:01 2002
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org (Djinn)
Date: Sat Oct 12 17:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Visual Web Design
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012155529.00a308d0@mail.darkdesigns.org>

Hello. I'm wondering if I could get some recommendations from people here
of some sites that have good visual- or graphic-design. I'm not looking for
the coolest, and am not particularly interested in javascript or flash.
Just some nice, clean 2- and 3-column sites or something like that.

Maybe there are sites dedicated to listing visually well designed sites?

Thanks,
Jean Peterson



From dunstan at 1976design.com  Sat Oct 12 18:25:01 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Automatic Print .PDF?
In-Reply-To: <20021012170341.94756BFE3@relay.evolt.org>
References: <20021012170341.94756BFE3@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20021012232408.M6731@1976design.com>

> > From: "Janet FitzGerald" <waxplanet at sunflower.com>
> >
> > I was wondering if it's possible to code a page to automatically print
> > a .pdf when the user tries to File/Print from the browser.  We are
> > building an online gallery that has a printable .pdf.  We don't want
> > the user to inadvertently print the web page thinking they are
> > printing the .pdf.  Does that make sense?
>
> well, no, not quite...
>
> the browser will try to print the page it sees, and as far as i know,
> there is no scripting to modify that behavior (thankfully)...

yes, there is - just pop this in the head of your document (and
replace 'printversion.pdf' with the name of your printable file):

<link rel="alternate" media="print" href="printversion.pdf">


> of course, you need to manage the
> user's expectations before you push a 500k PDF down their 56k line...
> consider an alert, a tooltip, text beneath the icon, etc...

good point :op

hth - dunstan (good lord, have I actually managed to offer some useful advice?)

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Oct 12 18:32:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringement?
Message-ID: <01c27247$6e813080$515c1dd1@rudy>

>... I don't know if we will get anywhere with it.

indeed

i'm with joel, let's dream about something else

marc, if you want to keep your stuff to yourself, then keep your stuff to
yourself

if you have a design that "requires a notable amount of time and know-how
to be produced" then maybe you should burn it to cd and sell it


rudy




From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Sat Oct 12 18:38:00 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEELMCAAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

I've got a field in one of my tables that I want to serve as a counter.  I'm
trying to increment it each time the corresponding record is accessed.
Here's the code snip that's doing the update.

	Dim SearchStr
	Dim RS
	Dim cmacount

	SearchStr = "SELECT cmacount FROM zip_tbl WHERE zipcode Like '%" &
Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "

	DBPath = Server.MapPath("../../Database/agentszips2.mdb")
	Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
	RS.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";",
adOpenKeyset, adLockPessimistic, adCmdText

	Set RS = conn.execute(SearchStr)

	RS.MoveFirst
	ccount = RS.Fields("cmacount").Value
	RS.Fields("cmacount").Value = ccount + 1

	RS.Update
	RS.Close
	Set RS = Nothing

Now, whenever I run this, I'm told that the
	"Current Recordset does not support updating. This may be a limitation of
the provider, or of the selected locktype."
The line number is gives the one that says...
	RS.Fields("cmacount").Value = ccount + 1

Anyone have any ideas?

TIA,
-jeremy
Whatsmyhomevalue.com



From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Oct 12 18:43:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS bug? can't find it
Message-ID: <01c27248$f2202580$515c1dd1@rudy>

> div.colonne { width:45%; padding:0px 10px 0px 10px; float:left; }
>
> So. 45%+45% adds up to 90%, which is less than 100% of the
> container, right?

stef, the padding is probably affecting that calculation

set your screen resolution high enough, and you'll see

it's the infamous box model problem, i think

rudy



From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Oct 12 18:50:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Oct 12 18:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
Message-ID: <01c27249$e3030440$515c1dd1@rudy>

> SearchStr = "SELECT cmacount FROM zip_tbl WHERE zipcode
> Like '%" & Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "

hi jeremy

sorry, i don't do ASP, however, please note that depending on what the user
enters for the zipcode, the above query may return more than one row

do you really want to update the counter on more than one row at a time?

rudy


> RS.Close
> Set RS = Nothing

sorry, can't help myself, i just find this bit of coding hilarious







From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Oct 12 19:24:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Oct 12 19:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
Message-ID: <01c2724e$8ae0d080$515c1dd1@rudy>

> CFMX outputs utf-8 by default

nice to know -- what about earlier versions?

good of macromedia to be thinking on our behalf, eh

they're even sometimes right


> You can put this at the top of your Application.cfm file,
> to change the output to ISO-8859-1
>
>  <cfcontent type="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
>
> then you can leave your meta tag alone.

i don't get it

does the cfcontent create a meta tag? or some kind of http header?

if so, it seems kind of superfluous to code a meta tag that says the same
thing

however, please note this is an important question, because the charset is
mandatory for w3c validation

if i code one, and use cfcontent, will i get two?

(yeah, i know i can test this myself, but maybe you can save me the agro)


> this is of course, if your site uses ISO-8859-1 and not utf-8....

okay, i'll bite, and my questions aren't just directed at you, morgan

what's the diff, and why would i want to use utf-8?

the w3c says i should be using ISO 10646

what's browser support for utf-8 like?  i've had no problems with ISO 8859

and here's a real challenge --

every time i go visit aardvark's article http://evolt.org/entities my
browser (ie5) pops up an alert that says

    Internet Explorer Install On Demand

    To display this page correctly you need to download
    and install the following components:

       Uniscribe

   Download size: 126K

and yet the meta tag in that article is  charset=iso-8859-1

i even ran that page through rex swain's http viewer, and i don't see any
http header that states character sets -- is there even such a thing?

so what's up with that alert?  is ie5 detecting the use of a unicode entity
in the body of the article (apparently, there are a few <grin>)?

what should i do so that i do not foist this alert on my users?

rudy



From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Sat Oct 12 19:27:00 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Sat Oct 12 19:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEELMCAAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B9CE0BAF.2B351%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 10/12/02 4:37 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:

> I've got a field in one of my tables that I want to serve as a counter.  I'm
> trying to increment it each time the corresponding record is accessed.
> Now, whenever I run this, I'm told that the
> "Current Recordset does not support updating. This may be a limitation of
> the provider, or of the selected locktype."

Check out this article:
http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2320

Wade



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Oct 12 20:02:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Oct 12 20:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
In-Reply-To: <01c2724e$8ae0d080$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGELKHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

rudy,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: rudy
>
> > CFMX outputs utf-8 by default
>
> nice to know -- what about earlier versions?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not that i can tell.

the real difference is in the content-type header.  from a cf5.0 site:

cmd> GET / HTTP/1.0
cmd> Host: www.evolt.org
cmd>
text/html => document.htm
RequestDone Error = 0
StatusCode = 200
Received 32166 bytes
hdr>HTTP/1.1 200 OK
hdr>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:59:18 GMT
hdr>Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix)
hdr>Page-Completion-Status: Normal
hdr>Set-Cookie: CFID=2285061; expires=Sun, 27-Sep-2037 00:00:00 GMT; path=/;
hdr>Set-Cookie: CFTOKEN=14339979; expires=Sun, 27-Sep-2037 00:00:00 GMT; path=/;
hdr>Connection: close
hdr>Content-Type: text/html

from a cfmx site:

cmd> GET / HTTP/1.0
cmd> Host: hb.jeffhowden.com
cmd>
text/html; charset=utf-8 => document.htm
RequestDone Error = 0
StatusCode = 200
Received 4825 bytes
hdr>HTTP/1.1 200 OK
hdr>Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
hdr>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:49:04 GMT
hdr>Content-Language: en-US
hdr>Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

there are two things noticaly different.  one is the addition of the content-language header.  the second is the addition of the charset information in the content-type header.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> >  <cfcontent type="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
> >
> > then you can leave your meta tag alone.
>
> i don't get it
>
> does the cfcontent create a meta tag? or some kind
> of http header?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

http header

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> if so, it seems kind of superfluous to code a meta tag
> that says the same thing
>
> however, please note this is an important question,
> because the charset is mandatory for w3c validation
>
> if i code one, and use cfcontent, will i get two?
>
> (yeah, i know i can test this myself, but maybe you can
> save me the agro)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

well, you really should have both.  some useragents will use the one in the headers while others will use whatever it finds in <meta> tags.  but, and here's the rub, they gotta be the same to make the validator not chirp at ya.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From russgri at bellsouth.net  Sat Oct 12 22:37:01 2002
From: russgri at bellsouth.net (Russell Griechen)
Date: Sat Oct 12 22:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PMA Database ... not OK[ Documentation ]
Message-ID: <003501c27254$217aa3e0$af74fea9@default>

Does this mean that to use this version that I would have to pay for another
database and how would this impact the database that is powering my site?

The last couple of versions of PhpMyAdmin carries this:

Error
The additional Features for working with linked Tables have been
deactivated. To find out why click 'here'
Clicking on the Link...

PMA Database ... not OK[ Documentation ]
General relation features Disabled

Info revealed:
$cfg['Servers'][$i]['pmadb'] string
Starting with version 2.3.0 phpMyAdmin offers a lot of features to work with
master / foreign - tables. To use those as well as the bookmark feature you
will need to create a new db.

To use this functionality as superuser create a new database:
create a new database for phpmyadmin:
CREATE DATABASE phpmyadmin;
Note that "controluser" must have SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE and DELETE
privileges on this database. Here is a query to set up those privileges
(using "phpmyadmin" as the database name, and "pma" as the controluser):
GRANT SELECT,INSERT,UPDATE,DELETE ON phpmyadmin.* to 'pma'@'localhost';
do not give any other user rights on this database.
enter the databasename in $cfg['Servers'][$i]['pmadb']

Russell Griechen



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Sat Oct 12 22:51:01 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Sat Oct 12 22:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: updating a record?
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAELNCAAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

>> SearchStr = "SELECT cmacount FROM zip_tbl WHERE zipcode
>> Like '%" & Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "
>
> sorry, i don't do ASP, however, please note that depending on what the
user
> enters for the zipcode, the above query may return more than one row
>
> do you really want to update the counter on more than one row at a time?

Actually, the table that this is querying has zip code as the primary key.

>> RS.Close
>> Set RS = Nothing
>
> sorry, can't help myself, i just find this bit of coding hilarious

Um... why?  It was my (limited) understanding that this was 'proper'
technique.

> Check out this article:
> http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2320
>
> Wade

Thanks for article, and the site.  I've already printed off several pages.
Unfortunately, it still isn't working. ;(  I'll keep digging and hacking at
it.

-jeremy




From glen at inception.co.nz  Sat Oct 12 23:50:00 2002
From: glen at inception.co.nz (Glen Burnett)
Date: Sat Oct 12 23:50:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEELMCAAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FNEMIMNBNLONBCCHEOODMECLCBAA.glen@inception.co.nz>

Jeremy, have you tried using an adLockOptimistic lock type?

Also, you set the RS object to equal an ADODB.Connection, it should be an
ADODB.Recordset.  Your conn variable holds the connection.  I don't think
this is causing your problem though.

You could also do this as a seperate sql statement using the same connection
but no recordset.  See below:


Dim conn
Dim strSql
Dim RS
Dim DBPath

DBPath = Server.MapPath("../../Database/agentszips2.mdb")

Set conn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
Set Rs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset")

conn.open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";"

strSql = "SELECT cmacount FROM zip_tbl WHERE zipcode Like '%" &
	Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "

Set RS = conn.execute(sqlSql)

'output recordset

RS.Close
Set RS = Nothing

strSql = "Update zip_tbl Set cmacount = (cmacount + 1) Where zipcode Like
'%" & _
	Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%'"

conn.execute(strSql)

conn.close
set conn = nothing


Not sure what the performance difference is between executing two seperate
sql statements versus using the recordset to update but at least this way
you only need a forward only, read only recordset which uses uses the least
resources out of all the recordset types.

Hope this helps,

Glen



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy Weiss
Sent: Sunday, 13 October 2002 12:38 p.m.
To: Evolt
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?


I've got a field in one of my tables that I want to serve as a counter.  I'm
trying to increment it each time the corresponding record is accessed.
Here's the code snip that's doing the update.

	Dim SearchStr
	Dim RS
	Dim cmacount

	SearchStr = "SELECT cmacount FROM zip_tbl WHERE zipcode Like '%" &
Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "

	DBPath = Server.MapPath("../../Database/agentszips2.mdb")
	Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
	RS.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";",
adOpenKeyset, adLockPessimistic, adCmdText

	Set RS = conn.execute(SearchStr)

	RS.MoveFirst
	ccount = RS.Fields("cmacount").Value
	RS.Fields("cmacount").Value = ccount + 1

	RS.Update
	RS.Close
	Set RS = Nothing

Now, whenever I run this, I'm told that the
	"Current Recordset does not support updating. This may be a limitation of
the provider, or of the selected locktype."
The line number is gives the one that says...
	RS.Fields("cmacount").Value = ccount + 1

Anyone have any ideas?

TIA,
-jeremy
Whatsmyhomevalue.com

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From studio at zero.zero.xs2.net  Sun Oct 13 02:15:00 2002
From: studio at zero.zero.xs2.net (S.tygian B.lacksmith S.tudios)
Date: Sun Oct 13 02:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PMA Database ... not OK[ Documentation ]
Message-ID: <200210130714.g9D7EZk04002@texas.pop3now.com>

RG> "Does this mean that to use this version that I would have to pay
for another database and how would this impact the database that is
powering my site?
RG>
RG> "The last couple of versions of PhpMyAdmin carries this:
RG>
RG> "Error
RG> "The additional Features for working with linked Tables have been
deactivated. To find out why click 'here' ..." <snip>

No, you don't have to get another database. What this means is that
either

1. you haven't created the tables in the PMA database required for these
functions, or
2. your PMA database user (as specified in your config file) doesn't
have the right privileges for those tables.

If you've already created the tables simply doublecheck that the PMA
user has the correct rights on them.

HTH,
S. G. Kearn




From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sun Oct 13 04:00:00 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sun Oct 13 04:00:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS bug? can't find it
In-Reply-To: <01c27248$f2202580$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021013101001.009edec0@members.evolt.org>

<who="rudy" when="19:41 12/10/02 -0400">
>stef, the padding is probably affecting that calculation
>
>set your screen resolution high enough, and you'll see
>
>it's the infamous box model problem, i think

Mmmh, yeah, I keep on thinking this one will not apply to me, I guess... ;-)
On your suggestion I changed from:

div.colonne { width:45%; padding:0px 10px 0px 10px; float:left; }

to:

div.colonne { width:25%; padding:0px 10px 0px 10px;  margin:0; float:left;
  voice-family: "\"}\"";
  voice-family:inherit;
  width:45%;
}

It _does_ work although on IE I still have to fine-tune it so that it
displays roughly the same.

Thank you rudy, where should I send the Champagne? ;-)

(side note: I set my screen resolution up to 1600*1200 to no avail with my
code, so screen res is not a sufficient indicator that you're in front of
the box model bug-problem-thingie).
(other side note: maybe we're confronted here with something else too, that
has to do with which container is used for relative calculation: Netscape
uses the container and IE really seems to use the viewport).
(last side note: hey rudy, read the source at nota-bene.org/ and thanks again)


s t e f
http://nota-bene.org



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Oct 13 08:30:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Oct 13 08:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: updating a record?
Message-ID: <01c272bc$918006e0$515c1dd1@rudy>

>> do you really want to update the counter on more than one row at a time?
>
>Actually, the table that this is querying has zip code as the primary key.

nevertheless, the query can still return multiple rows

for example,

    where zipcode like '%9021%'

will return not only 90210 through 90219 but also 19021, 29021,39021...

    where zipcode like '%9%'

will surely return more than can comfortably be shown on one web page

in this latter case, i sincerely doubt you will want all selected rows to
have their counter updated

if you want to return only one row at a time, use an equality comparison,
not a LIKE comparison with wildcards, i.e.

    where zipcode = '90210'


rudy



From michael at tapinternet.com  Sun Oct 13 08:49:01 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal)
Date: Sun Oct 13 08:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringement?
References: <3DA85CF1.7060704@tntluoma.com>
Message-ID: <3DA97B6F.1020007@tapinternet.com>

I missed the beginning of this - hope I'm not repeating too much of
what's been said...

>
>
> > Web designers, editors, authors, publishers etc. should have the
> > ability to decide if they wish to protect their web site content.

They have the decision to put it on the web or not in the first place.

>
> > As the author and publisher of a web site. I wish to have the
> > possibility to include a meta-tag on my web pages for example which
> > prevents browsers to view the source code and the links on my web
> > pages. Web site visitors would only see the top level-domain of the
> > appropriate web site. This meta tag would make browsers a "read-only"
> > application such as the Adobe Acrobat PDF format.

This would simply make it easier for those who've stolen markup/layout
code from others line for line to hide that fact.

Also, reengineering browsers means reengineering servers too.  Unless
you're OK with people being able to telnet to port 80 and issue a GET or
POST directly (I suspect the original poster would be aghast at that notion
after having had everyone make 'copy safe' browsers).

>
> My guess is that anyone with determination could still edit a PDF file
> marked 'read only'

True.

>
> > I believe, web site authors and publishers should have the right to
> > decide weather they wish to keep their web pages "open-source" or not.

Again - they can put it on the web or not in the first place.  That's
the choice.

>
>
> > Some web site design and its development requires a notable amount of
> > time and know-how to be produced. This time and effort which has been
> > investigated belongs entirely to the intellectual property of the
> > designer, producer, editor, internet application developer, IT company
> > etc.

This is why 'server side' stuff is where the fun's at.  No one can steal
it (unless you're using ASP/NT4 and people hit you with aspsourcecode.com,
but that's another story!).  'Client side' stuff is just that - stuff
sent to
a client.  It's outside of your control.  Focus on providing the value
on the
server via an application.  Anyone can steal an interface.  No one can
steal the
direct logic of an app.

>
> Real question: shall we start to pay royalties to sendmail and Apache
> folks?
>
>
> > The current browser standards do not offer *any* security issues for
> > authors, publishers, artists and other companies to protect their
> > content in order to prevent web site piracy and copyright
> > infringements.

Uhoh - all the books at my local library don't have any form of copy
protection
either, and those books took some people years to write.  Anyone
can simply copy the book and say it's theirs!  I better ask book
publishers to work on 'copy protection' for books.  Oh wait - they already
are.  (and throwing people who demonstrate that their technology is
not secure in jail).

>
>
> True.
>
> > I would be interested to hear your opinions on this subject.
>
> I'm almost always in favor of choice.  However, I worry about what would
> happen with new ideas if they were all thought about as "capital".
>
> <hypothetical>
> If you need help with something on your site, and I give you a tip that
> helps make your site work better in Opera, will you share that part of
> the source code with others, or will it all be blocked?  What gives you
> the right to block others from seeing what was freely given to you?  How
> will you make the distinction?
> </hypothetical>

I guess the fact that it was free to you means it was free to anyone
in the first place and people can still go find the original source for
their own inspiration.  So 'blocking' it in one avenue doesn't block it
from
everyone.  But I tend to agree with your point.

>
> It has the possibility to squash a lot of what I love about the web.
>
> On the other hand, I agree with the fact that if you spend 10 weeks on a
> site design, it can suck that someone else comes along and steals it in
> 10 seconds.

Put the value of dealing with that website in serverside code,
not just in webpages themselves.  Sometimes this may be more
difficult than others, but it means your 'site' is more than just a
collection
of static data that can be taken in seconds.

Actually, I guess everyone is 'taking' it all the time -every time they hit
your website.  It's on their hard disk, in a browser cache, whatever.  It's
what they do with it after that which is the bigger question.



Michael Kimsal
http://www.logicreate.com




From carole at pixeltable.com  Sun Oct 13 09:31:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Sun Oct 13 09:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Visual Web Design
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012155529.00a308d0@mail.darkdesigns.org>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJAECAEMAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi Jean,

:Maybe there are sites dedicated to listing visually well designed sites?

try http://netdiver.net as a starting place - and visit the snapshot
galleries - you should find some interesting sites.

if you look under the http://netdiver.net/toolbox/portals.php - a list to
design portals to still more examples.

hth.
.c



From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Sun Oct 13 10:17:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Sun Oct 13 10:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
References: <01c2724e$8ae0d080$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <001501c272cb$63f65210$6601a8c0@jakibyard>

rudy,

.jeff covered most of it....i only got a couple of things to add:

>
> if i code one, and use cfcontent, will i get two?
>
> (yeah, i know i can test this myself, but maybe you can save me the agro)

the cfcontent doesn't create a meta tag.
agro saved by nagro.
:p


>
> okay, i'll bite, and my questions aren't just directed at you, morgan
>
> what's the diff, and why would i want to use utf-8?
>
> the w3c says i should be using ISO 10646
>
> what's browser support for utf-8 like?  i've had no problems with ISO 8859
>

Beyond the fact that utf-8 supports more special characters, utf-8 is also
the only unicode set that contains a backwards-compatible-unix-safe ascii
set (also part of ISO-8859-1). So if unicode AND backward compatible
unix-ascii are required by your site, utf-8 is for you.

i don't know about browser support....i imagine in IE it falls into the
"language pack" arena


> and here's a real challenge --
>
> every time i go visit aardvark's article http://evolt.org/entities my
> browser (ie5) pops up an alert that says....
[....]

no clue...but it hasn't happened to me?
i have IE6 on my laptop. i'll check it out on IE 5.5 at work on monday.


nagrom



From mail at jasoncartwright.com  Sun Oct 13 10:26:02 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sun Oct 13 10:26:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Visual Web Design
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021012155529.00a308d0@mail.darkdesigns.org>
Message-ID: <000301c272ca$1132fe30$e99f6051@jason>

> Maybe there are sites dedicated to listing visually well
> designed sites?

www.coolhomepages.com

Jason
www.jasoncartwright.com



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 11:11:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Oct 13 11:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mail() settings limited?
In-Reply-To: <F96n3nydsAr0Yr6INk20001c3e1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAELDDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Is possible that my mail settings are limited to sending out more than one email
at a time ?

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 11:39:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Oct 13 11:39:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mail() settings limited?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAELDDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGELEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

still trying to solve this old chestnut :(  I must be missing something this is
just too weird
I have setup vlite newsletter locally and it just will not send out mails from
the db.  This is the same as another script I have setup too!  It sends out an
email to the admin '$EmailFrom ='but not to the emails in the db!  weird.  I am
using PostCast Server.  This is the code to send out the mail, is there anything
missing that would prevent the mails being sent?

Andrew

<?
	if ($Submit=="Send Now!")
	{
		// Security
		$subject = strip_tags($subject);
		$TEXTMailText = stripslashes($MailText); // put nl2br() if not showing newline
properly in email messages

		$connection = mysql_connect($dbhost, $dbusername, $dbpassword);
		$query = "SELECT * FROM listsubscribers";
		$result = mysql_db_query($dbname, $query);

		if ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result))


			$EmailTo = $row["email"];
			$ok = true;
		}

		while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result))
		{
			$EmailTo .= ", " . $row["email"];
			$ok = true;
		}

		if (($mailtype=="text") && ($ok))
		{
			$Message = $TEXTMailText;
			$Message .= $TXTfooter;

			$sent = mail($SenderFrom."<".$EmailFrom.">", $subject, $Message,
"From:$SenderFrom<$EmailFrom>\nReply-to:$EmailReplyTo
					\nbcc:$EmailTo");
		}
		elseif (($mailtype=="html") && ($ok))
		{
			$Message = $MailText; // Send HTML mail as it was entered in multi line text
box
			$Message .= $HTMLfooter;


			$sent = mail($SenderFrom."<".$EmailFrom.">", $subject, $Message,
"From:$SenderFrom<$EmailFrom>\nReply-to:$EmailReplyTo
					\nbcc:$EmailTo\nContent-Type:text/html; charset=iso-8859-1");
		}

	}
?>

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 05:14
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] php mail() settings limited?


Is possible that my mail settings are limited to sending out more than one email
at a time ?

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02

--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02



From markgill at uwalumni.com  Sun Oct 13 12:41:01 2002
From: markgill at uwalumni.com (Mark Gillingham)
Date: Sun Oct 13 12:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RSS Newsfeed
In-Reply-To: <20021013152044.F2B00BFA8@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <DFEE327C-DED2-11D6-A4C2-0030653D7320@uwalumni.com>

I'm considering  the best way(s) to create a RSS newsfeed from HTML
hosted on an Apache site. I use Userland Frontier to create the HTML so
I can easily create the XML for stand RSS, but then what. Is there more
than badging my page so that newsreaders can link to the rss page?



From elfur at elfur.is  Sun Oct 13 13:41:01 2002
From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Sun Oct 13 13:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] creating two-dimensional timetable in ASP/SQLServer
Message-ID: <00f101c272e8$092b7fa0$0100a8c0@DWARFS>

Hi,

i'm struggling with creating a two dimensional timetable in ASP.

i have a table with the following columns
id, title, day, timefrom, timeto

and in it there is an unknown amount of records, each storing information
about a class
for example these records:
32; bleh; 2; 17:30; 18:30
45; bleh; 4; 17:00; 18:00

what i need to do is display the records in a table with fixed axes. where
the vertical axis (Y) is time and horizontal axis (X) is day.

this wouldn't be a problem if i didn't have to display the length of the
class as well.

using the example rows above, i need to mark the Y-axis from 17:30 through
18:30 on monday (X-axis) and from 17:00 through 18:00 on wednesday.

so there, any suggestions?

thanks
elfur
*the puzzled one*



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Oct 13 15:21:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] creating two-dimensional timetable in ASP/SQLServer
Message-ID: <01c272f5$0f492100$515c1dd1@rudy>

>and in it there is an unknown amount of records, each storing information
>about a class
>for example these records:
>32; bleh; 2; 17:30; 18:30
>45; bleh; 4; 17:00; 18:00
>
>what i need to do is display the records in a table with fixed axes. where
>the vertical axis (Y) is time and horizontal axis (X) is day.


hi elfur

how are you?  we missed you around here

the two-dimensional report that you describe is frequently called a
"crosstab" report

if rows are the timeslot dimension (down), and columns are the days
dimension (across), you did not make totally clear what should goes into
the "value" slots -- this is usually a count of occurrences or a sum of
some value

hence most crosstabs are usually based on a GROUP BY query

>this wouldn't be a problem if i didn't have to display the length of the
>class as well.
>
>using the example rows above, i need to mark the Y-axis from 17:30 through
>18:30 on monday (X-axis) and from 17:00 through 18:00 on wednesday.

okay, that's a different take on it

this sounds almost like a gannt chart

what do you mean "mark the y axis"?  a blob of colour? a vertical bar?

so, no count or sum of records in that slot, something else?

you know, if you were to produce an html mockup, showing what you want the
result page to look like, that would help a lot

rudy



From dunstan at 1976design.com  Sun Oct 13 15:35:01 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
Message-ID: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>

Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this page are all blurry?

http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php

It seems to happen only for letters in that space - that is if I deleted two
letters from the start the blur will shift two letters to the right.

The code to generate that page is:

<php code>
header("content-type:image/gif");

// php error reporting, turn on for development
error_reporting(E_ALL);

// create image
$Image=ImageCreate(320,240);

// set colour variables
$white=ImageColorAllocate($Image,255,255,255);
$grey=ImageColorAllocate($Image,128,128,128);
$black=ImageColorAllocate($Image,75,75,75);

// draw borders
imageline($Image,0,0,319,0,$black);
imageline($Image,319,0,319,239,$black);
imageline($Image,319,239,0,239,$black);
imageline($Image,0,239,0,0,$black);

// draw grey rectangle
imagefilledrectangle($Image, 10, 10, 310, 210, $grey);

// write text
ImageTTFText($Image, 8, 0, 10, 230, $black, "slkscr.ttf", "Fats Wallace
Brdige, Washington DC");

ImageGIF($Image);
ImageDestroy($Image);
</php code>


thanks very much - dunstan

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Oct 13 15:39:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Character Encoding Mismatch
Message-ID: <01c272f8$40b8bd60$515c1dd1@rudy>

> agro saved by nagro.

footer!!


thanks for your feedback too, jeff


<tip type="cookies">

once you establish the habit of visiting sites on a regular basis which
require logging in, you will want to use cookies

don't forget to establish some housekeeping and/or preventative measures
for these cookies

first of all, don't use the same userid/password for every site you log in
to, because if something bad happens and somebody figures out one of your
userid/password combos, you do *not* want this person to have automatic
access to all your other accounts all over the web

this means you will end up with different passwords in different cookies,
so now all you need to do is either back up your cookie folder or write
down your passwords elsewhere

why? because sooner or later you will accidentally blow away your cookies,
and then you will either have to restore them from a backup, or log in all
over the web again using the correct different passwords on every site,
which by now you will have forgotten, since you usually don't log in each
time, relying instead on your cookies

how do i know this?  experience    ;o)

</tip>





From joshua at waetech.com  Sun Oct 13 15:41:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
References: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEELMCAAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <097301c272f8$aeed2c30$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Weiss" <jweiss03 at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:37 PM

Jeremy,

It may be possible to reduce the complexity of your code by performing one
update rather than a select and an update.  For example:

Dim SearchStr
Dim oConn
Dim cmacount

SearchStr = "UPDATE zip_table SET cmacount = cmacount + 1 WHERE zipcode Like
'%" &
Replace(zipcode, "'", "''") & "%' "

DBPath = Server.MapPath("../../Database/agentszips2.mdb")
Set oConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
oConn.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";",
adOpenKeyset, adLockPessimistic, adCmdText

oConn.execute(SearchStr)

oConn.Close
Set oConn = Nothing

Like rudy pointed out, unless zipcode is the PK of zip_table, this may
update more than one record.  If it is the PK, then simply doing to update
is much better.  Using this code will also decrease the chances that you may
lose an increment if two threads run the same code at the same time.  To
illustrate look at the pseudo code of your old code:

1. Select the record
2. Record it's value
3. Update the record with the recorded value + 1

What happens when two threads run at the same time?  It is possible that the
value will only be incremented once when it really should be incremented
twice.  Use the follow steps as an example:

Thread 1: Select a record
Thread 1: Record it's value
Thread 2: Select a record
Thread 1: Update the record with the recorded value + 1
Thread 2: Record it's value
Thread 2: Update the record with the recorded value + 1

Even though two threads have executed, the ending value is only 1 greater
than what the second thread saw as the value.  Other people, I believe,
pointed out the different locking type.  That will help of course, but the
bottom line is that all this locking stuff can be avoided by moving most of
the actual functionality to the database.

-joshua



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Oct 13 15:48:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Oct 13 15:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
Message-ID: <01c272f9$a086b0c0$515c1dd1@rudy>

> Like rudy pointed out, unless zipcode is the PK of zip_table,
> this may update more than one record.

sorry, maybe i wasn't clear

whether zipcode is the pk is irrelevant

it's using wildcards that will potentially select or update multiple rows


rudy



From elfur at elfur.is  Sun Oct 13 16:02:01 2002
From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] creating two-dimensional timetable in ASP/SQLServer
References: <01c272f5$0f492100$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <010901c272fb$c583c460$0100a8c0@DWARFS>

From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>

| >what i need to do is display the records in a table with fixed axes.
where
| >the vertical axis (Y) is time and horizontal axis (X) is day.
|
|
| hi elfur
|
| how are you?  we missed you around here

i'm better thanks. but won't be around much until later this year, early
next year.

| >this wouldn't be a problem if i didn't have to display the length of the
| >class as well.
| >
| >using the example rows above, i need to mark the Y-axis from 17:30
through
| >18:30 on monday (X-axis) and from 17:00 through 18:00 on wednesday.
|
| okay, that's a different take on it
|
| this sounds almost like a gannt chart

a what?

|
| what do you mean "mark the y axis"?  a blob of colour? a vertical bar?
| so, no count or sum of records in that slot, something else?

a blob with info ;) display in the correct grid of the axis the info for
that class

| you know, if you were to produce an html mockup, showing what you want
the
| result page to look like, that would help a lot

good idea,
http://www.el.is/temp/class.htm

this is where i'm at. i've managed to display the classes ordered by
starting time in the correct grid, but what i need to do is to have it
exceed the slots, so that if a class' duration is 2hrs between 14-16 it
would be shown both in the 14-15 slot and the 15-16 slot ...

does this make more sense?
i've added some comments on the html doc.

thanks
elfur
still *the puzzled one*



From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 16:49:01 2002
From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
In-Reply-To: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <8DDAD381-DEF5-11D6-8D3E-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 09:34  pm, Dunstan Orchard wrote:

> Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this page are all
> blurry?
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php

Dunstan

I had a similar issue with some code I was using to generate text on
the fly for headers, and it seemed to be a rounding/rendering error,
where the 'hinting' in the font file wasn't very good at certain point
sizes.

I got round it by generating the text at double size, then shrinking it
down. I also set up a caching mechanism, so that the generated type
would be saved to disk the first time it was created, so second and
subsequent times it was requested the file simply had to be loaded
rather than generated.

My code is given below, called using the following rewrite in .htaccess:

# Rewrite URIs of the form http://www.domain.co.uk/gfx/titles/h1/... to
script
#
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

	RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} ^/_gfx/titles/(.*)/(.*)$   [NC]
	RewriteRule ^.*$ /_gfx/titles/_create_header.php?style=%1&file=%2
[R]

And thus in the HTML:

	<h1><img src="_gfx/titles/h1/accessible_design.jpg" alt="accessible
design" /></h1>

Hopefully you should be able to work out what it's doing and grab the
bits you need.

<php code>
	ob_end_clean();

	$cache_path = dirname ( $_SERVER['PATH_TRANSLATED'] ) ;

	$file = ( isset ( $_GET['file'] ) ) ? $_GET['file'] : 'NULL' ;
	$vetted_file = basename ( realpath ( $_GET['file'] ) ) ;

	if ( $file !== $vetted_file ) exit () ;

	header ( 'Content-Type: image/jpeg' ) ;

	if ( $bytes = @filesize ( "$cache_path/$vetted_file" ) ) {
		header ( "Content-Length: $bytes" ) ;
		readfile ( "$cache_path/$vetted_file" ) ;
	} else {

		$style = ( isset ( $_GET['style'] ) ) ? $_GET['style'] : 'default' ;

		switch ( $style ) {
			case 'h1' :
				$size = '54' ;
				$height = '76' ;
				$width = '22' ;
				$baseline = '56' ;
				$text_color = 'blue' ;
				break ;
			case 'h2' :
				$size = '32' ;
				$height = '50' ;
				$width = '20' ;
				$baseline = '38' ;
				$text_color = 'grey' ;
				break ;
			case 'braille' :
				$size = '35' ;
				$height = '60' ;
				$width = '42' ;
				$baseline = '55' ;
				$text_color = 'grey' ;
				break ;
			default ;
				$size = '27' ;
				$height = '40' ;
				$width = '16' ;
				$baseline = '28' ;
				$text_color = 'grey' ;
				break ;
		}

		// Trim whitespace, swap underscores for spaces and lowercase text.
		$text = trim ( strtolower ( str_replace ( '_' , ' ', $_GET['file'] )
) ) ;

		$text = str_replace ( '.jpg' , '' , $text ) ; // Trim '.jpg' from end

		$image_width = ( strlen ( $text ) * $width ) ;
		$image_height = $height ;

		// Create 2 x size image
		$im = ImageCreate ( $image_width , $image_height ) ;

		// Setup colors
		$background = ImageColorAllocate ( $im , 253,253,255 ) ;
		$blue 		= ImageColorAllocate ( $im , 102,115,127 ) ;
		$grey 		= ImageColorAllocate ( $im , 146,149,153 ) ;

		ImageColorTransparent ( $im , $background ) ;

		switch ( $style ) {
			case 'h1' : $font_path = dirname ( $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']
).'/fonts/Interstate-LightComp.ttf' ; break ;
			case 'h2' : $font_path = dirname ( $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']
).'/fonts/Interstate-LightCond.ttf' ; break ;
			case 'braille' : $font_path = dirname ( $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']
).'/fonts/braille.ttf' ; break ;
			default : $font_path = dirname ( $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']
).'/fonts/Interstate-LightCond.ttf' ; break ;
		}

		ImageTTFText ( $im , $size , 0 , 0 , $baseline , $$text_color ,
$font_path , $text ) ;

		// Create destination image
		$header = ImageCreateTrueColor ( $image_width/2 , $image_height/2 ) ;

		// Resize image
		ImageCopyResampled ( $header , $im , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , $image_width/2,
$image_height/2 ,
							 $image_width , $image_height ) ;

		ImageJPEG ( $header , '' , 100 ) ;
		ImageJPEG ( $header , "$cache_path/".$vetted_file , 100 ) ;
	}
</php code>

If you have any questions let me know.

HTH

--
Andy Warwick
Creed New Media Design
<http://www.creed.co.uk/src/evolt/index.htm>



From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Oct 13 16:57:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Oct 13 16:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
References: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <001901c27303$5c8c4d30$2532fc80@pravda>

Dunstan Orchard wrote:
> Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this page are
> all blurry?
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php
>
> It seems to happen only for letters in that space - that is if I
> deleted two letters from the start the blur will shift two letters to
> the right.

As a PNG I get the whole thing blurry:
http://laura.everybox.com/~davidu/test.php

Are you sure it isn't the font?

-davidu



From clive at designshift.com  Sun Oct 13 17:07:00 2002
From: clive at designshift.com (Clive R Sweeney)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Character Encoding Mismatch
Message-ID: <000601c27304$dfbdda60$27773e04@DSHIFT>

Thanks for the responses on the "Character Encoding mismatch" issue. I
understand more about what's causing the problem, but I'm still not sure
how I should handle it.

It's useful to know that validating pages on the developmental server
did not mean they would fully validate on the client server. My
assumption is the developmental server is using an older version of the
ColdFusion server while the client has MX. From the responses I've
received it sounds like I might be causing problems if I took the easy
route and changed my meta tag to "UTF-8", since some browsers might not
handle it transparently. On the other hand, I don't have direct access
to the final "application.cfm" file. So should I simply instruct the
webmaster to just add '<cfcontent type="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">'
to the file? Does it matter where? (You can tell I'm not the ColdFusion
guy in this business.)

Is this the best solution?

I wonder why Macromedia has ColdFusion MX specifying "UTF-8" while
Dreamweaver MX defaults to "ISO-8859-1". Is there a reason they should
be different, or weren't the developers communicating as well as they
should have?

... clive



From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 17:08:00 2002
From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
In-Reply-To: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <3466E273-DEF8-11D6-8D3E-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>

On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 09:34  pm, Dunstan Orchard wrote:

> Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this page are all
> blurry?
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php

After David's post, it occurred to me that the 'blurriness' you are
referring to is actually the font antialiasing, and that rather use my
original 2 x size solution, you might also turn off antialiasing when
you create the image.

You do this by specifying a negative color index, thus:

ImageTTFText($Image, 8, 0, 10, 230, -$black, "slkscr.ttf", "Fats Wallace
Bridge, Washington DC");

<http://www.uk.php.net/manual/en/function.imagettftext.php>

IIRC though, this was buggy in GD 2.0.1...

HTH

--
Andy Warwick
Creed New Media Design
<http://www.creed.co.uk/src/evolt/index.htm>



From tony at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 17:35:01 2002
From: tony at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php mail() settings limited?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGELEDOAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAEEKFKGAA.tony@boldfish.co.uk>

Andrew,

It's always useful to check that PHP is actually getting results:

	while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result))
		{
			$EmailTo .= ", " . $row["email"];
*			echo "$EmailTo";
			$ok = true;
		}

*insert this line and each email address should be echo'd to your screen
as PHP works through the DB.

If nothing shows you have a DB problem

HTH



From boardman at manoverboard.com  Sun Oct 13 17:57:01 2002
From: boardman at manoverboard.com (Andrew Boardman)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: 10.2 Apache
Message-ID: <4F79695E-DEFF-11D6-AC10-000A27B741FA@manoverboard.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Thanks for the help, all.

FYI, there is an EXCELLENT resource for newbie PHP, MySQL folks who
want to use it on OX 10.2 in November's Macworld by Scot Hacker (great
name for a Web developer).  Much thanks to him for someone finally
making it simple to set this up on OS 10.2!  It's working great now for
me -- the trick is to turn on "Web file sharing" in the Sharing
preferences panel, which is not mentioned clearly enough in the article.

Andrew Boardman.

Andrew Boardman.
MANOVERBOARD.
http://www.manoverboard.com
T 718 809-2085
F 718 504-4070
--



From pippen at bigpond.net.au  Sun Oct 13 17:59:01 2002
From: pippen at bigpond.net.au (Scott)
Date: Sun Oct 13 17:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How to prevent web site piracy & copyright infringement?
References: <01c27247$6e813080$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <038b01c2730c$ce6c21b0$dce22dcb@jack>

: >... I don't know if we will get anywhere with it.

A few thoughts:

- everyone trawls sites they visit for snappy new
  approaches and ideas. That is what makes the world
  tick. The sharing of ideas promotes further learning.
  If something you designed is borrowed and improved
  upon and becomes a web standard - you just have to
  smile, sit back and think "I started that trend" ;)

  More than likely what inspired you to do that new design
  inspired someone else and you'll see it sooner or later
  somewhere else anyway.

- imitation is flattery

- the web started free - lets keep it so (as much as we can)

- designing a cool site or widget is half the fun isn't it?

Although similar to what stef said:

Sure, take my idea and play with it, but if you take my site
and screw with it - that's a whole different story...
I know of one site in particular I did a long time ago that I
cried when I saw what was done to it later on.




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 18:02:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
In-Reply-To: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAEEKGKGAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this
> page are all blurry?
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php
>

I believe it's because you are using a pixel font at spacing that
doesn't suit the arrangements of the pixels on your screen.

If that sounds odd, you can find some info on using pixel fonts here:

http://www.wpdfd.com/

but you'll have to dig for it.

basically the font your using is a single pixel wide, if the image you
make with it places the font at a fraction of a pixel out then the
screen has to dither to display it, hence the blurry ness.

Hope this helps

(but I don't have a solution, unless you can control the spacing between
characters)

Tony



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Oct 13 18:04:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
In-Reply-To: <20021013203431.M44476@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAAEKHKGAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> Does anyone have any idea why some of the letters on this
> page are all blurry?
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image.php
>
> It seems to happen only for letters in that space - that is
> if I deleted two
> letters from the start the blur will shift two letters to the right.

Aha!

you need to turn off antialiasing when you use a pixel font.

try adding a negative color index to the PHP array

array imagettftext ( resource image, int size, int angle, int x, int y,
int col, string fontfile, string text)

Col is the color index. Using the negative of a color index has the
effect of turning off antialiasing.

that should help

Tony



From joshua at waetech.com  Sun Oct 13 18:42:00 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:42:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] updating a record?
References: <01c272f9$a086b0c0$515c1dd1@rudy>
Message-ID: <099d01c27311$f7f40d40$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:46 PM


> > Like rudy pointed out, unless zipcode is the PK of zip_table,
> > this may update more than one record.
>
> sorry, maybe i wasn't clear
>
> whether zipcode is the pk is irrelevant
>
> it's using wildcards that will potentially select or update multiple rows

And of course you are 100% correct, rudy.  I was so focused on the
efficiencies to be gained by the reworking of the logic that I didn't even
consider the wildcards an issue.  But, I agree that wildcards could cause a
problem--or at least an unintended side-effect.  A possible good side-effect
is that perhaps the wildcard zipcode search was part of a business search
and the point of incrementing values was to count the number of times each
business was included in a set of search results.  In that case, the
wildcard would be acceptable.

-joshua



From dunstan at 1976design.com  Sun Oct 13 18:48:01 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Sun Oct 13 18:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php on-the-fly image and text generation question
Message-ID: <20021013234733.M84665@1976design.com>

Ah, it was a font size thing specific to that font - first I had to get rid of
the anti-aliaising (by setting the font colour to a minus value) and then I
had to set the size to 7.9 and not 8 for it to work properly - even though the
font is optimized to work at 8pt.

http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image2.php

// write text
$title = ImageTTFText($Image, 7.9, 0, 10, 230, -$black, "slkscr.ttf", "Fats
Wallace Bridge, Washington DC");



cheers - dunstan

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From dunstan at 1976design.com  Sun Oct 13 19:06:01 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Sun Oct 13 19:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] setting the wrap width of rendered text usng php gd
Message-ID: <20021014000549.M92764@1976design.com>

Hi again,

does anyone know how to limit the width of text when writing it to an image in
php?

I am writing text to an image 300px wide, so I want to wrap the text display
at something like 280px - but I can't figure out how?

See an example of my text not wrapping here:

http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image4.php


My plan is to limit the text width, then work out the height of the text box
using imagettfbbox() then create the image with the height set to accomodate
the text...


Any help gratefully received,

thanks as always,

- dunstan

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Oct 13 20:11:00 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Oct 13 20:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] setting the wrap width of rendered text usng php gd
References: <20021014000549.M92764@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2731e$81256580$2532fc80@pravda>

Dunstan Orchard wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> does anyone know how to limit the width of text when writing it to an
> image in php?
>
> I am writing text to an image 300px wide, so I want to wrap the text
> display at something like 280px - but I can't figure out how?
>
> See an example of my text not wrapping here:
>
> http://www.1976design.com/testarea/photo/image4.php
>
>
> My plan is to limit the text width, then work out the height of the
> text box using imagettfbbox() then create the image with the height
> set to accomodate the text...

That's essentially what you need to do but I think in a slightly different
order.

using:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.imagettfbbox.php

you could write a small loop to keep adjusting the break in the text until
the bounding box is just small enough to fit inside the image.

By the way, that font looks great at 7.9 -- real sharp and easy to read.

-davidu


>
>
> Any help gratefully received,
>
> thanks as always,
>
> - dunstan
>
> ---------------------------
> Dorset, England
> http://www.1976design.com/
> http://www.orchard.it/
> http://www.maccaws.org/




From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Sun Oct 13 20:34:01 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Sun Oct 13 20:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Visual Web Design
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJAECAEMAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAKEIDDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

I'll second the recommendation for NetDiver.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the single best spot for web designers
to get inspiration, see cool and interesting work by an assortment
of different designers and developers, and is a great resource
overall for design and development, period.

I refer to it all the time for inspiration and ideas in my own work,
and to get a solid sense of some of the wonderful things going on
out there.

/Anthony





| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of carole guevin
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 7:30 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: RE: [thelist] Visual Web Design
|
|
| hi Jean,
|
| :Maybe there are sites dedicated to listing visually well designed sites?
|
| try http://netdiver.net as a starting place - and visit the snapshot
| galleries - you should find some interesting sites.
|
| if you look under the http://netdiver.net/toolbox/portals.php - a list to
| design portals to still more examples.
|
| hth.
| .c



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Sun Oct 13 22:33:00 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Sun Oct 13 22:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] RSS Newsfeed
In-Reply-To: <DFEE327C-DED2-11D6-A4C2-0030653D7320@uwalumni.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLAEEIEDOAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

Insofar as I know, nope.

It's up to the user to have applications onhand that read
and interpret your XML feed. I happen to use an all called
FreeReader for the PC.

All I do is click on a subscribe button on the app, and
then enter in the url for the XML file. If the file is
valid, it will automatically list the title of the site/feed
and away I go...

I subscribe to several Userland XML feeds -- all they had to
do was provide me with the badge/link to their file.

Freeloader is one of many such RSS/XML readers. One of the
other very popular ones is Amphetadesk.

Here's a link to a site containing pointers and info to a
bunch of RSS readers:

http://blogspace.com/rss/readers



Cheers,

Anthony





| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Gillingham
| Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:41 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: [thelist] RSS Newsfeed
|
|
| I'm considering  the best way(s) to create a RSS newsfeed from HTML
| hosted on an Apache site. I use Userland Frontier to create the HTML so
| I can easily create the XML for stand RSS, but then what. Is there more
| than badging my page so that newsreaders can link to the rss page?
|
| --
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From mpember at phreaker.net  Sun Oct 13 23:04:01 2002
From: mpember at phreaker.net (mpember at phreaker.net)
Date: Sun Oct 13 23:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RSS Newsfeed
Message-ID: <200210140403.g9E43AQ14083@mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au>

While we're on the topis of new feed readers, I have to put in a plug for one I recently came across.  Trillian Pro has now got the option to use a news plugin that means you can combine all you IM and RSS displays into one single view.

I recently added a whole series of news feeds and it is fantastic not needing to have all the individual apps taking up space on my screen.

The standard "not related to me..." disclaimer applies :)

----
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net