[thelist] one more thing about browsers...

[Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns]

Nyal, Jay, Charles and others,

Nyal Bartch <nyalb at zyggher.com> typed:

> > Sorry, I just yapped all your ears off then I forgot one thing.  :)  I don't
> > have a Mac and don't really have easy access to one either.  Do Netscape and
> > IE versions for Windows and Macs primarily turn out the same results?  If my
> > site looks great in IE 4 on a Windows box, will it look equally great on a
> > Mac, etc.?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they did?! As Charles responds below, it depends on a
variety of things. Font sizing can be very different cross-platform, so depending
on your layout, they may or may not be critical. There are other potential
differences, too.

(more comments below)

Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:03:11 -0800 Charles Johnson:

> that depends on a lot of things. font sizes can be *very* different unless
> you use a stylesheet to define fonts in pixel sizes, just for starters.
>
> i'd be typing all day if i tried to list all the differences.

Yeah, I think you'd wear out your keyboard. Geez....

One of my many hats is being the editor for WebsiteTips.com, a repository of
tutorials as well as a ton (over 1,400) of annotated links to Web resources, and
more. From seeing questions come up often around cross-platform and cross-browser
issues at a number of discussion lists, I created a couple of sections at
WebsiteTips.com from my own research on this with a bunch of annotated links to
some really excellent resources on the Web on this and also specificallly on font
issues, too. So this might be a helpful resource for you, too.

WebsiteTips.com - Design and Layout
http://www.websitetips.com/design/

Check out these sections there:
-- Accessibility, Cross-Platform, Cross-Browser Design
-- Cross-Browser, Cross-Platform Font Issues

Within those listings are not only great articles and tutorials but also some very
well done charts and even screen shot comparisons of how various fonts show up in
different platforms and on both Macs and PCs.

While every site is different and has its own characteristics, I think these
resources will shed some light for you about the kinds of things to keep in mind.
As I've researched all of this (and continue to do so), it's been immensely
helpful and has broadened my understanding of the kinds of things to be mindful of
when creating and maintaining a Web site.

> you really
> should always test on a mac. or ask the list to check it if you can't get to
> one...
>
> charles johnson
> lgf web design
> http://littlegreenfootballs.com

I couldn't agree more, Charles. (I love your URL, by the way. Captured my
attention in a big way the first time saw it and it still does.)

I only have PCs also, so the discussion lists like this one and others that ask
for site checks are especially valuable (and fun). I really enjoy checking sites,
too, as I can see what people are designing, meet new people, and I love the
sharing and comradery with others in this field.

In fact, when I write up my contracts with clients, I include the detail that
their sites will be reviewed and checked for cross-platform, cross-browser issues.
Once the new client becomes aware of the cross-browser, cross-platform issues,
they understand how important it is that I include this in my work for them, and
they appreciate it.

So from my side of the fence here you've raised a very important question, Nyal.
Might I suggest that you consider not "assuming" anything? <chuckle> Unfortunately
I don't think we can't depend on assuming very much. I'm dreaming about the
possibility that there will be closer similarities as we march on, though (and in
big thanks to the Web Standards Project who's worked so hard at this).

Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:16:17 -0500 Jay Greenspan  also responded to Nayl Bartch:

> Happily, Apple has created a site that can help you with some of the issues
> you're likely to encounter. For starters you may want to see how fonts
> render differently and some of the HTML issues you're likely to encounter.
>
> http://developer.apple.com/internet

This is indeed a great resource. I recently was pointed to it by Steve Champeon,
who's written some articles for the site. Being a PC-oriented person I hadn't
known about it, and I'm glad I do now as it's helpful for PC users, too.

Nyal, you might also find of interest their information on font sizing -- screen
shots of different fonts, etc.

Font Galleries-->Font Sizing
http://developer.apple.com/internet/_fonts/fonts_gallery.html

> Please let me know (off list) if there are any questions you have that the
> Apple site could address. (I help them out with that site.)
>
> -j

Wow, that's great! I'm glad to see that, Jay.

Warmly,
Shirley
--
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/