[thelist] take me off the list

Jennifer Bobbe jbobbe at guggenheim.com
Mon Mar 12 08:36:31 CST 2001


Thanks
Jennifer Bobbe
----- Original Message -----
From: <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:35 AM
Subject: thelist digest, Vol 1 #1170 - 31 msgs


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. ASP Error: Trappable error in external object. (Ryan Finley)
>   2. Re: thinking of a site redesign... (Lloyd Dunn)
>   3. Re: List Practices: A good habit (Lloyd Dunn)
>   4. Re: Critique: tharapita.com (kalyani deshpande)
>   5. Re: anchors in IE (Janice Tocher)
>   6. embedded fonts (Peter Kaulback)
>   7. Re: PHP Sessions and URL's (deke )
>   8. Critique: www.completeimaging.com/chris (Chris Johnston)
>   9. Re: anchors in IE (deke )
>   10. Re: JSP - Execute a perl script like you would with an SSI exec
call? (deke )
>   11. Re: thinking of a site redesign... (arch)
>   12. JavaScript: Hours & Minutes (...::: [ M ] [ a ] [ d ] [ s ] :::...)
>   13. Re: Critique: www.completeimaging.com/chris (webmaster at menouno.com)
>   14. Re: Re: Critique: www.tryspot.com/tharapita/ (Peter Van Dijck)
>   15. Re: JavaScript: Hours & Minutes (Matthew Fischer)
>   16. Re: Critique: www.tryspot.com/tharapita/ (Lauri Vain)
>   17. Re: JavaScript: Hours & Minutes (deke )
>   18. Re: embedded fonts (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
>   19. Re: JavaScript: Hours & Minutes (Warden, Matt)
>   20. JavaScript help (Peter Van Dijck)
>   21. Re: JavaScript help (Matthew Fischer)
>   22. Hoster Problem?: Site shows up on SOME computers (Archie G.
Underwood)
>   23. Whatever happened to VRML? (Naju V)
>   24. RE: embedded fonts (Tijs Teulings)
>   25. 3D on the web  (WAS:Whatever happened to VRML?) (Scott Brady)
>   26. {Just for Discussion} Text Vs. Text Graphics (Jonathan)
>   27. Re: {Just for Discussion} Text Vs. Text Graphics (Marc Seyon)
>   28. RE: Host Advice (danna)
>   29. Statistics (download speed) (Lauri Vain)
>   30. RE: JavaScript help (John Corry)
>   31. Re: Whatever happened to VRML? (viveka)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: Ryan Finley <RyanF at SonicFoundry.com>
> To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] ASP Error: Trappable error in external object.
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:12:32 -0600
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Has anyone ever received this error message?  It is occuring at random on
> every page...We have no idea where to start looking.
>
> Any help would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> <F93YVhE80qi4UvxlEkb0000438b at hotmail.com>
> <p05010405b6ceddf0b7ef@[128.255.94.145]>
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:06:28 -0600
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Lloyd Dunn <ll at detritus.net>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] thinking of a site redesign...
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> everyone, thanks for your comments about my site http://pwp.detritus.net/
.
>
> i've been definitely re-considering my use of frames in my redesign -- for
> exactly the reasons you describe below.
>
> i've also been going back and forth in my mind re: using flash in the
> re-design. but at this point, i am preferring not to. it's something i'll
> explore for the future, but i really want to keep plug-in free as much as
> possible (quicktime being the only exception due to the fact that i'm
> presenting movies and music).
>
> i'll admit my taste is perhaps unusual -- but i like the animated gif
> backgrounds. at the same time, everyone's comments have convinced me that
i
> will do without them in the re-design so as not to repel too many viewers
> because of them.
>
> like i say, the only 'client' is me -- so it's easy to fall prey to
> self-indulgence. that's why i'm finding this list so valuable. thanks a
> bunch!
>
> cheers!
>
>
>
> >I agree -- overboard on the motion. As splashy animations go, yours
> >are more tasteful than most but when you have content people are
> >expected to read, the distraction of any motion at all is deadly.
> >
> >Second: Rethink your use of frames. Yours seem nicely implemented but
> >basically, frames are evil.
> >
> >Frames are usually a user interface nightmare because they impede
> >navigation. When the user clicks BACK, which frame does the user
> >mean? BACK seldom takes me back to what I wanted.
> >
> >What does the PRINT command print -- the whole window? One frame? Which
frame?
> >
> >When I make a bookmark, what am I bookmarking? The whole page as it
> >appears or some frame? It's almost always the frameset, which is
> >almost never what the user wants.
> >
> >I have more arguments -- for the whole diatribe, see the Frame Flame at:
> >
> >   http://www.rubenzahl.com/wwworks/handouts/frame-flame.htm
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
> Lloyd Dunn
> The Tape-beatles -- P.O. Box 3326 -- Iowa City IA 52244 -- USA
>
> http://pwp.detritus.net/
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> DURING THE months of April and May 2001, I will be travelling, en route
> to Prague (CZR) for an extended stay. If you would like to write to me
> during this time use this email address and no other: <ll at detritus.net>.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:07:12 -0600
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Lloyd Dunn <ll at detritus.net>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] List Practices: A good habit
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> hear, hear. commendations all 'round.
>
> >I've noticed an interesting tendency on this list, and would like to
> >thank people for it, and encourage it's further usage.
> >
> >If you take a quick scan at any given day's output here (about
> >100-200 messages a day!) you'll notice that people tend to use very
> >clear subject lines. One of the more common habits seems to be to
> >place the general topic heading first, then the content such as
> >
> >CF: What's this tag about
> >Javascript - Form doesn't work
> >Java - What does this mean?
> >
> >This makes email filtering so much easier, and it makes wetware
> >filtering easier too. (I wonder if this is a by-product of the fact
> >that many of us are coders?)
> >
> >Nature, nurture or network: Will the world ever know?
> >--
> >
> >"Jack me in Jill!"
> >
> >Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
> >frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
> Lloyd Dunn
> The Tape-beatles -- P.O. Box 3326 -- Iowa City IA 52244 -- USA
>
> http://pwp.detritus.net/
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> DURING THE months of April and May 2001, I will be travelling, en route
> to Prague (CZR) for an extended stay. If you would like to write to me
> during this time use this email address and no other: <ll at detritus.net>.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:50:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: kalyani deshpande <kalyanideshpande at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [thelist] Re: Critique: tharapita.com
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi Lauri,
>
> I agree with whoever said the heading "tharapita.com"
> can be changed to another font. Even simple Arial will
> do.
> I liked the colors on the page - makes reading easy.
>
> How did you create the lines? I've seen this on a
> couple of sites and I really like it.
>
> Kalyani
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:55:36 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] anchors in IE
> From: Janice Tocher <janice at discoverysystems.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi all and thanks for the input.
> In my original post, I had mistakenly left off the closing </a> tag - was
on
> my page, not in my message.
> I believe I'll consider this one a 'bug in IE' approach on this
one...thanks
> for the thread James that I can pass on to my client.
> ~j
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 21:26:10 -0500
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Peter Kaulback <pkaulbak at idirect.ca>
> Subject: [thelist] embedded fonts
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi I'm new to the list and I have a quandary, I have a new project
> developing where the owner has some calligraphy for which they have
created
> their own font. This being said they wish to display their work exactly as
> the print. Will an embedded font perform this task accurately? And do most
> browsers support embedded fonts in the same manner? I have the WEFT
> application, if it is any help with Netscape unless Netscape uses
something
> different.
> Peter Kaulback
>
>
> I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work.
>
> Thomas Edison (1847-1931)
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:21:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] PHP Sessions and URL's
> Reply-to: web at master.gen.in.us
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> On 9 Mar 2001, at 0:32, Jeremy Keith wrote:
>
> > I have it in the back of my head that some older versions of Netscape
only
> > accept cookies when the domain contains two dots so www.domain.com would
> > work but domain.com wouldn't. Can anyone confirm/deny this?
>
> http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/cookie_spec.html
>
> If the top-level domain is three letters (i.e, COM, NET, ORG, MIL,
> EDU, GOV, and INT) then two dots are required. If the TLD is two
> letters (a geographic TLD), then three dots are required.
>
> But RFC 1034 says that
>
> When a user needs to type a domain name, the length of each label is
> omitted and the labels are separated by dots (".").  Since a complete
> domain name ends with the root label, this leads to a printed form which
> ends in a dot.
>
> In other words, it's not evolt dot org. It's evolt dot org dot.
>
> deke
>
>
> --------
> I got this powdered water.
> Now I don't know what to add.
>             -- Steven Wright
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: "Chris Johnston" <chris at completeimaging.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:17:06 -0500
> charset="us-ascii"
> Subject: [thelist] Critique: www.completeimaging.com/chris
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this list and I was hoping that some of you could take a look
at
> a site I am creating and give me some feedback on what you think of it.
One
> thing though, don't try and view it using NN4.x because it won't look
right.
> Instead, use ie5 - 5.5, NN 6, or Opera 5. I am trying to create it using
web
> standards and <div>'s instead of tables.
>
> Thanks in advanced...
>
> Chris
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:21:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] anchors in IE
> Reply-to: web at master.gen.in.us
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> On 9 Mar 2001, at 13:25, Ben Henick wrote:
>
> > > page1.htm
> > > <a name="whatever">
>
> > > page2.htm link
> > > <a href="page1.htm#whatever">
>
> > I find it entirely likely that IE's choking on the lack of a closing
> > tag.  It's true that HREF and NAME are mutually-exclusive attributes for
> > the anchor tag, but the use of NAME doesn't remove the requirement to
use
> > a closing tag.
>
> Not only do you need a closing tag, but you need something *between*
> the tags. An &nbsp; will do, but the HTML specification warns:
>
>    Note. User agents should be able to find anchors created by empty A
>    elements, but some fail to do so. For example, some user agents may
>    not find the "empty-anchor" in the following HTML fragment:
>    <A name="empty-anchor"></A>
>
> deke
>
>
> --------
> I got this powdered water.
> Now I don't know what to add.
>             -- Steven Wright
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:21:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JSP - Execute a perl script like you would with an
SSI exec call?
> Reply-to: web at master.gen.in.us
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> On 9 Mar 2001, at 15:57, Mark Gregor wrote:
>
> > We have this great poll script written in Perl.  The original home for
> > the script was on a Linux box, but the script has now been ported
> > to NT (still in Perl) for use on a site we're building that is entirely
> > JSP based.
>
> > In it's previous life, the script itself was called from an HTML page
> > using an SSI exec, like this <!--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/polls.cgi"--> This
> > would cause the poll to appear in whatever page the SSI exec call
> > was placed in.  However, we're no longer using standard SSIs.
>
> > Is there any way to call this cgi script from a JSP page in a similar
way?
>
> <IFRAME src="/cgi-bin/polls.cgi">
>
> You can also embed it with the <OBJECT> tag, but the only popular
> browsers that support <OBJECT> well are Netscape/6 and WebTV,
> which have a combined browser share of maybe 5-8%.
>
> deke
>
> --------
> I got this powdered water.
> Now I don't know what to add.
>             -- Steven Wright
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 23:33:59 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] thinking of a site redesign...
> From: "arch" <mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi Lloyd:
>
> Just some initial thoughts on your site. The first one is silly - I love
> the stamp with the picture of Vaclav Havel on it. He is one of my personal
> favorites :-) Animated gifs in the background are interesting but can
> become really annoying (especially in the navigational frame) and
distracting
> from your content... Are frames bad/evil? I don't know. I saw many web
> sites where it looked and worked really bad and... great inspiring sites
> done in frames. I guess it's a personal choice we all have to make.
>
> Anyway, thanks for sharing your URL and the best of luck.
>
> Arthur R. Chidlovski
> www.chidlovski.com
>
> ---- Lloyd Dunn <ll at detritus.net> wrote:
> > i'm relatively new to the list. if this question is too general, just
> > skip it.
> >
> > i have a website http://pwp.detritus.net/ which is a form of personal
> >
> > expression for me. i have complete freedom to do whatever i want --
> >
> > the only client to please is me. i code html/css by hand using
> > bbedit. i have only rudimentary knowledge of javascript and perl.
> >
> > anyway, i'm thinking of doing a complete redesign more or less from
> >
> > scratch. if any of you have the time, will you visit, please, and
> > give me reactions to what the current site does right or completely
> >
> > botches, from your perpective as web professionals or just web users
> >
> > looking for somthing interesting out there.
> >
> > anything is fair game: esthetics, user interface, how wrong it looks
> >
> > in your browser/platform configuration, etc.
> >
> > any feedback would be appreciated. don't hold back.
> >
> > --
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> > Lloyd Dunn
> > The Tape-beatles -- P.O. Box 3326 -- Iowa City IA 52244 -- USA
> >
> > http://pwp.detritus.net/
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > DURING THE months of April and May 2001, I will be travelling, en route
> > to Prague (CZR) for an extended stay. If you need to contact me during
> > this time please use this email address and no other: <ll at detritus.net>.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax,
> all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: "...::: [ M ] [ a ] [ d ] [ s ] :::..." <madsmo at online.no>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:54:43 +0100
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Subject: [thelist] JavaScript: Hours & Minutes
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> hi, i hope you can help me with this part of my script:
> =================================================================
> var hs
> if(hours >= 06 && minutes > 28)&&(hours <09 + minutes >30)
> =================================================================
> the goal for this script, is to make it show witch tv-program that runs
> BETWEEN 06:28 and 09:30, everything else than the "minutes" variabel work.
> It dosen't "care" about the "hours" variabel, and then it only works when
my
> clock is between:
> xx:28 and xx:30 =( So... how can i make this out?
>
> - Thanks ;)
> // Mads Mobæk, madsmo at online.no , Norway
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: webmaster at menouno.com
> Organization: menoUNO Comunicazione
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:41:34 +0100
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Critique: www.completeimaging.com/chris
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> On 9 Mar 2001, at 22:17, Chris Johnston wrote about [thelist]
> Critique: www.completeimaging.com/chris
>
>
> >  I am trying to create it using web standards and <div>'s
> >  instead of tables.
>
> clean layout, even if reminds me of something else   ;-)
>
> I would definitely kill/reword the final statement
>
> > This site has been entirely hand coded and validated for HTML 4.01 and
> > CSS 1, therefore  it may not work in all browsers.
>
> Shouldn't it be exactly the opposite?
> * Maybe not look the same, but it SHOULD work in any browser.... *
>
>
> ciao
>
>
> Massimo
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:12:34 +0000
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Peter Van Dijck <peter at vardus.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: Critique: www.tryspot.com/tharapita/
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> I like it a lot.
> Usability comments: (no testing done, just common sense comments)
>
> 1. icons won't be easily understood. Consider replacing them with words.
>
> 2. "welcome new visitors" is a bad strapline. Try make a strapline that
> explains the purpose of the site in 3 to 5 words. Something like : "Love
> planes? So do we." or "For airplane geeks".. Whatever you come up with.
>
> 3. Definitely keep the good parts, like the simplicity, and almost
> everything in the content area.
>
> 4. You need a pagetitle on every page. Where the ::introduction:: is now
> (or just above it).
>
> 5. Don't use pt for font size. It keeps people from resizing the text, and
> my guess from your target audience is that some may be over 30 (e.g. may
> have bad eyes).
>
> 6. Are you planning to have subcategories in that navigation (e.g. bombing
> - old / bombing - japanese / ...) (I made that up)? If so, how are you
> goind to deal with that in the navigation. Seems like you only designed
the
> homepage, you should definitely also try designing some sub level pages,
> see if they still work.
>
> But great overall, definitely the right direction.
> Peter
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://liga1.com: building multiple language/culture websites
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:37:00 -0500
> From: Matthew Fischer <mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript: Hours & Minutes
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> This will be true if any of the following are true (if I understand what
you are asking, this is what you want to test for):
>
>     1) the hour is 6 and the minutes are greater than 28
>     2) the hour is 7 or 8
>     3) the hour is 9 and the minutes are less than 30
>
>
> var date = new Date();
> var hours = date.getHours();
> var mins = date.getMinutes();
>
> if (((hours == 6) && (mins > 28)) || (hours == 7) || (hours == 8) ||
((hours == 9) && (mins < 30)))
>
>
> On 3/10/01 at 9:54 AM, madsmo at online.no (...::: [ M ] [ a ] [ d ] [ s ]
:::...) wrote:
>
> > hi, i hope you can help me with this part of my script:
> > =================================================================
> > var hs
> > if(hours >= 06 && minutes > 28)&&(hours <09 + minutes >30)
> > =================================================================
> > the goal for this script, is to make it show witch tv-program that runs
> > BETWEEN 06:28 and 09:30, everything else than the "minutes" variabel
work.
> > It dosen't "care" about the "hours" variabel, and then it only works
when my
> > clock is between:
> > xx:28 and xx:30 =( So... how can i make this out?
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> From: "Lauri Vain" <optima at hot.ee>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Critique: www.tryspot.com/tharapita/
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:22:03 +0200
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Peter,
>
> > 1. icons won't be easily understood. Consider replacing them with words.
>
> We will add words under them.
>
> > 2. "welcome new visitors" is a bad strapline. Try make a strapline that
> > explains the purpose of the site in 3 to 5 words. Something like : "Love
> > planes? So do we." or "For airplane geeks".. Whatever you come up with.
>
> We are aware of that -- the designer just added "something" to fill up
that
> space.
>
> > 4. You need a pagetitle on every page. Where the ::introduction:: is now
> > (or just above it).
>
> The so-called child pages will look similar to
> http://www.tryspot.com/tharapita/blackbird.html
>
> > 5. Don't use pt for font size. It keeps people from resizing the text,
and
> > my guess from your target audience is that some may be over 30 (e.g. may
> > have bad eyes).
>
> We will probably change them to pixels -- whether 10 or 12, we'll see
which
> looks better. The user should be able to override those with his/her own
> stylesheets specified in the browser, right?
>
> > 6. Are you planning to have subcategories in that navigation (e.g.
bombing
> > - old / bombing - japanese / ...) (I made that up)? If so, how are you
>
> Not at first -- when the need arises (there will be too many planes) then
we
> will add them. That won't be very big of a change to the database later.
>
> > goind to deal with that in the navigation. Seems like you only designed
the
> > homepage, you should definitely also try designing some sub level pages,
> > see if they still work.
>
> In the beginning the sub level pages will look like
> http://www.tryspot.com/tharapita/blackbird.html
>
> > But great overall, definitely the right direction.
>
> Thanks!
>
> A sidecomment to everyone who have replied before: We won't probably
change the
> font of the "tharapita.com" because other fonts will make the page looking
too
> cold or the text won't be easily understood. Three persons have also said
that
> they like the present font and we figure it isn't very critical.
>
> Yours,
> Lauri
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> From: "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:05:24 -0500
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript: Hours & Minutes
> Reply-to: web at master.gen.in.us
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> On 10 Mar 2001, at 9:54, ...::: [ M ] [ a ] [ d ] [ s  wrote:
>
> > hi, i hope you can help me with this part of my script:
> > =================================================================
> > var hs
> > if(hours >= 06 && minutes > 28)&&(hours <09 + minutes >30)
> > =================================================================
> > the goal for this script, is to make it show witch tv-program that runs
> > BETWEEN 06:28 and 09:30, everything else than the "minutes" variabel
work.
> > It dosen't "care" about the "hours" variabel, and then it only works
when my
> > clock is between:
> > xx:28 and xx:30 =( So... how can i make this out?
>
> Multiply your hours by 60 and add minutes, and use that for
> comparison.
>
> You seem to be a beginner at programming, based on your
> difficulties. Complicated expressions are hard even for
> programmers who no longer confuse '+' and '&&'
>
> How do you simplify this expression?
>
> First, create three variables, striketime (built from hours and
> minutes), starttime and endtime, so that the conversion from
> hours and minutes to just minutes is in fairly simple statements
> isolated from other complexity.
>
> Second, avoid the "greater than or equal two" type operators.
> They are an invitation to typos that work fine except they give
> the wrong results. Instead of "at or after 6:28", you want to
> think in terms of "after 6:27"
>
> Third, do single comparisons and nest them, rather than doing
> complex comparisons.
>     if cherry is red
>              if olive is green
>                      then use with vanilla ice cream for Christmas sundae
> rather than
>      if ((cherry is red) and (olive is green))
>                      then use with vanilla ice cream for Christmas sundae
> because it's easy to accidently use a plus instead of an and.
>      if ((cherry is red) plus (olive is green))
> actually means
>      if ((cherry is red) or (olive is green))
> in most languages (because false is zero and anything else is
> true)  You also avoid all those darned parentheses. They were
> hard enough to keep track of when we used ugly fixed width
> fonts, but in the proportional fonts of most modern text editors,
> parentheses are so thin that they are even harder to keep right.
>
> deke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------
> I got this powdered water.
> Now I don't know what to add.
>             -- Steven Wright
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:57:36 -0800
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser at skdesigns.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] embedded fonts
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi, Peter,
>
> First, welcome to the list!!
>
> Regarding your question, I come up with a couple of my own for you, too.
> I'm wondering how you wish to use the calligraphy. Will it be for the
> content of the site, or just for some examples? It's understandable that
> the owner wishes to have the calligraphy appear as intended. Maybe you've
> already considered these things, and if so, let me know.
>
> -- if you wish to show examples, a graphic may be the best approach.
> -- PDF files are also great for representing the look you have in mind.
>
> Neither of those are good for being the basis of your content, however.
>
> I haven't tried the WEFT application myself, and if you move forward with
> that approach, it's my understanding that the page will take longer to
load
> (I don't know how much longer, though).
>
> If the client wishes to use the calligraphy font for all the content, I'd
> probably suggest that they don't do that and instead use samples
> interspersed throughout instead. But I'm totally guessing at how you wish
> to use that calligraphy. So let us know and then we can more accurately
> respond to your question. We're usually good for a variety of ideas here.
> <grin>
>
> By the way, I love your Thomas Edison quote.
>
> Warmly,
> Shirley
> --
> Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
> SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
> Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
> Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
> Moderator, I-Design http://www.audettemedia.com/lists/idesign/summary.html
>
> At 06:26 PM 03/09/2001, Peter Kaulback <pkaulbak at idirect.ca>  wrote:
> >Hi I'm new to the list and I have a quandary, I have a new project
> >developing where the owner has some calligraphy for which they have
> >created their own font. This being said they wish to display their work
> >exactly as the print. Will an embedded font perform this task accurately?
> >And do most browsers support embedded fonts in the same manner? I have
the
> >WEFT application, if it is any help with Netscape unless Netscape uses
> >something different.
> >Peter Kaulback
> >
> >
> >I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work.
> >
> >Thomas Edison (1847-1931)
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at odyssey-design.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript: Hours & Minutes
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:09:06 -0500
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> > hi, i hope you can help me with this part of my script:
> > =================================================================
> > var hs
> > if(hours >= 06 && minutes > 28)&&(hours <09 + minutes >30)
> > =================================================================
> > the goal for this script, is to make it show witch tv-program that runs
> > BETWEEN 06:28 and 09:30, everything else than the "minutes" variabel
work.
>
> What you have is a little off:
>
> (hours >= 06 && minutes > 28)
>
> Will return false at 7:01. You see why? Because minutes is not greater
than
> 28... it's 1. Now, the easiest way to do this is probably to use minutes
only.
>
> if (minutes > ((6 * 60) + 28) && minutes < ((9 * 60) + 30))
> {
> ...
> }
>
>
> It might be even easier (depending on how you're getting the date/time) to
use
> milliseconds.
>
>
> HTH,
>
>
>
> --
> mattwarden
> mattwarden.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:23:24 +0000
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Peter Van Dijck <peter at vardus.com>
> Subject: [thelist] JavaScript help
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi,
> I need some simple javascript (I know nothing of javascript I'm afraid, I
> can just hack it) that does this: when you click on one of many links on a
> page, a value gets put in a textfield. When you click on another link the
> value in textfield gets replaced.
>
> I wouldn't ask but I know it's supposed to be simple and I need it for
> tomorrow...
> Any ideas?
> thanks!
> Peter
>
> <tip type="SQL security.">
> "select * from users where password=$pass" is very unsecure if you haven't
> escaped $pass.
> Because a user could enter something like the following (without the
tildes)
> ~blabla" or 1=1 and id=12~
> in his password field, thus gaining easy access.
> </tip>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://liga1.com: building multiple language/culture websites
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:28:17 -0500
> From: Matthew Fischer <mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] JavaScript help
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Link 1: <a href="javascript:document.formname.fieldname.value='foo'">
>
> Link 2: <a href="javascript:document.formname.fieldname.value='foo2'">
>
> Obviously replace "formname" and "fieldname" with the actual names of the
form and the field.
>
>
> On 3/10/01 at 9:23 PM, peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I need some simple javascript (I know nothing of javascript I'm afraid,
I
> > can just hack it) that does this: when you click on one of many links on
a
> > page, a value gets put in a textfield. When you click on another link
the
> > value in textfield gets replaced.
> >
> > I wouldn't ask but I know it's supposed to be simple and I need it for
> > tomorrow...
> > Any ideas?
> > thanks!
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 22
> From: "Archie G. Underwood" <taochaos at home.com>
> To: "Evolt List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:52:29 -0800
> Organization: TAOCHAOS Design
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Subject: [thelist] Hoster Problem?: Site shows up on SOME computers
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> One of my clients is using a different hoster than I use, it seems we are
> having a problem.
> The site shows up on some peoples computers, but not others. I can update
> the site and see the change immediately, while some people can't even
bring
> up the page. All the DNS info and everything is correct.
> Is this strictly a bad hoster? Any insight?
>
> Archie G. Underwood
> Taochaos Web & Graphic Design
> www.taochaos.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 23
> From: "Naju V" <continuouspark at yahoo.com>
> To: "Evolt" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:23:15 -0600
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Subject: [thelist] Whatever happened to VRML?
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Or let me make the question more general, what's the current state of 3D
> Animation in webpages?
>
> On the VRML situation, all I can remember is reading that the company
> working on the Cosmo set of tools for VRML authoring was acquired by
Silicon
> Graphics and later sold to some other company. Does modern browsers
include
> the plug-ins for VRML viewing? It's been years since I've come across a
> website using VRML. What happened to this technology that was, imho, not
> actually awesome but somewhat interesting and promising? I mean, some
people
> have way more bandwidth and processing power available than they did in
> 1996. For instance, the renderings, which didn't look very nice and fast
on
> my 486 might just work in my Celeron at 600 mhz and downloading vrml files
> with a cable modem is a totally different thing than doing it at 28.8.
What
> were the problems with vrml besides the processing and bandwidth issues?
>
> What other options are there available for 3D authoring on webpages? I've
> heard that there are some programs in which you can do some modeling and
> export the result to flash but how does this work? How affordable are
these
> tools?
>
> Does 3D in a webpage make any sense to you at all?
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 24
> From: Tijs Teulings <tijs.teulings at framfab.nl>
> To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org '" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] embedded fonts
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:38:17 +0100
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Before you decide on using embedded fonts first run a little test with the
> font you will be using. While some fonts do not allow embedding at all
> (copyrighted) some fonts do not work even if they do expressly support
> embedding. It is my experience that some fonts have the tendency to work
> only part of the time. The Mac and winNT are very picky for instance.
Fonts
> embedded with weft do not work on NS, you have another tool for that
called
> webfont wizard. For more info check:
>
> http://www.tijs.org/embed/
>
> greets,
> Tijs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi, Peter,
>
> First, welcome to the list!!
>
> Regarding your question, I come up with a couple of my own for you, too.
>
> I'm wondering how you wish to use the calligraphy. Will it be for the
> content of the site, or just for some examples? It's understandable that
>
> the owner wishes to have the calligraphy appear as intended. Maybe
> you've
> already considered these things, and if so, let me know.
>
> -- if you wish to show examples, a graphic may be the best approach.
> -- PDF files are also great for representing the look you have in mind.
>
> Neither of those are good for being the basis of your content, however.
>
> I haven't tried the WEFT application myself, and if you move forward
> with
> that approach, it's my understanding that the page will take longer to
> load
> (I don't know how much longer, though).
>
> If the client wishes to use the calligraphy font for all the content,
> I'd
> probably suggest that they don't do that and instead use samples
> interspersed throughout instead. But I'm totally guessing at how you
> wish
> to use that calligraphy. So let us know and then we can more accurately
> respond to your question. We're usually good for a variety of ideas
> here.
> <grin>
>
> By the way, I love your Thomas Edison quote.
>
> Warmly,
> Shirley
> --
> Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
> SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
> Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
> Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
> Moderator, I-Design
> http://www.audettemedia.com/lists/idesign/summary.html
>
> At 06:26 PM 03/09/2001, Peter Kaulback <pkaulbak at idirect.ca>  wrote:
> >Hi I'm new to the list and I have a quandary, I have a new project
> >developing where the owner has some calligraphy for which they have
> >created their own font. This being said they wish to display their work
>
> >exactly as the print. Will an embedded font perform this task
> accurately?
> >And do most browsers support embedded fonts in the same manner? I have
> the
> >WEFT application, if it is any help with Netscape unless Netscape uses
> >something different.
> >Peter Kaulback
> >
> >
> >I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work.
> >
> >Thomas Edison (1847-1931)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 25
> From: "Scott Brady" <dsbrady at scottbrady.net>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] 3D on the web  (WAS:Whatever happened to VRML?)
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:50:03 -0800
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> I actually just found out about a product/company called pulse3d
(allegedly
> started by some former Macromedia folks) that is kind of neat.  They've
got
> demos involving the Muppets, a virtual Abe Lincoln, and Barbie.
>
> I don't know how useful it is, aside from doing solely animation (as
opposed
> to a user interface), but it seems to load pretty fast, all things
> considered.
>
> http://www.pulse3d.com/
>
> Scott
> -----------------------------------------------
> Scott Brady
> http://www.scottbrady.net/
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:06:40 -0700
> From: Jonathan <ijfp at mac.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] {Just for Discussion} Text Vs. Text Graphics
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hello and Thank You Evolt readers/contributors.
>     Jonathan here with a question.
>
> When is it appropriate to use graphics in place of standard (un-stylized)
> text?
>
> Any comments, suggestions ideas?
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 00:33:52 -0400
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: Marc Seyon <seyon at carib-link.net>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] {Just for Discussion} Text Vs. Text Graphics
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> I can think of two situations.
> One - where you've got a logo which utilises a specific, non-standard
font.
> And where you need a piece of text to fit an exact space, either in terms
> of the size of the letters themselves, or spacing, etc.
>
> Any time you do decide to replace text with graphical text, use the ALT
tag
> wisely.
> -marc
>
> At 3/10/2001 09:06 PM, you wrote:
> >When is it appropriate to use graphics in place of standard (un-stylized)
> >text?
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 28
> Reply-To: <member at spreier.com>
> From: "danna" <member at spreier.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Host Advice
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:21:51 -0800
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Thanks for your suggestions so far.  I've run across
> http://www.maximumasp.com and it looks like something I might be
interested
> in.  Anybody familiar with them?
>
> > I'm also looking for a possible new web host.  I'm looking for a shared
> > server solution and Innerhost looks like it would really fit my needs.
I
> > prefer a Windows NT/2000 server, and I like the preinstalled asp
> > components
> > Innerhost offers.  Has anyone had experience with them.  I'm looking
for:
> > reliable server/reliable email/speed/good customer service.  It
> > doesn't have
> > to be cheap, just fairly reasonable.  Any other suggestions appreciated.
> > Thanks.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 29
> From: "Lauri Vain" <optima at hot.ee>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:11:15 +0200
> charset="iso-8859-4"
> Subject: [thelist] Statistics (download speed)
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> How does the behind the scenes work by PHP exactly go? Does the PHP thread
> remain active so long as the information is sent to the visitor? Or will
PHP
> parse the code and send it to Apache which will send the data to the user
> itself?
>
> The reason that I'm asking this is I'm writing a statistics add-on for one
of my
> sites and was wondering whether the code below would give the time in
which PHP
> parses the code or in which the data gets streamed to the user.
>
>     $time_one = microtime(void);
>     fpassthru($file);
>     $time_two = microtime(void);
>     // + here will be the code to calculate the difference
>     //    betweeen $time_one and $time_two
>
> Would I get information about my server (parsing time) or would I get some
> information about the requesters internet connection (how fast will my
files get
> to the user). Both would be pretty important!
>
> PS  What are the advanced statistics programs out there? I wouldn't mind
seeing
> a sample report.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Yours,
> Lauri
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 30
> From: "John Corry" <webshot at neoncowboy.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] JavaScript help
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:34:02 -1000
> charset="us-ascii"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> > Hi,
> > I need some simple javascript (I know nothing of javascript I'm afraid,
I
> > can just hack it) that does this: when you click on one of many
> > links on a
> > page, a value gets put in a textfield. When you click on another link
the
> > value in textfield gets replaced.
>
> http://members.evolt.org/webshot/list_help/textarea.html
>
> Hey Peter...
> I'm sort fo a javascipt newbie too, but when I saw this it looked like
> something I could manage...I put up a page that does what you described in
> your email.
>
> hth,
> john
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 23:30:45 +1000
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> From: viveka <me at karmanaut.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Whatever happened to VRML?
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> 4:23 PM -0600 10/3/01, Naju V wrote:
> >Or let me make the question more general, what's the current state of 3D
> >Animation in webpages?
>
> Lively ;) More detail below...
>
> [summary - VRML is alive, it won the standards war.
> It's in MPEG4. It's being extended, there's an XML
> encoding now, as well as stuff like NURBS.
> New players offer superior software toys.
> New low-end computers play VRML with full-screen,
> full-motion clarity; consumer 3D is here.
> Proprietary spin-the-object plugins swarm in their
> hundreds, and occupy various niches.]
>
> >On the VRML situation, all I can remember is reading that the company
> >working on the Cosmo set of tools for VRML authoring was acquired by
Silicon
> >Graphics and later sold to some other company.
>
> Cosmo Software was originally a division of Silicon Graphics.
> They spun it off to focus on their "core competencies".
> There's a bizarre story here which i won't go into too much
> (sgi went through a weird period, almost became a branded
> NT clone maker, and recovered at the last moment, ditching
> the CEO who did this to them (and HP before them - he now
> works for M$) - pulling out of the Redmond-inspired nosedive
> to recover their lost ground in the high-end graphics workstation
> market and embrace Linux).
>
> In the meantime though, Cosmo Software was bought by
> Platinum, who were the fourth or fifth largest software
> company on earth at the time. They wanted to go in to
> VRML hardcore as a visualisation adjunct to their financial
> services stuff. They announced that the entire Cosmo suite -
> the CosmoPlayer plugin, as well as the insanely great
> authoring package Cosmo Worlds and a bunch of other
> stuff, would be released as Open Source.
>
> No sooner were the words out of their mouth than Platinum
> was bought out by the world's third-largest software
> company, Computer Associates (CAI), in a hostile takeover.
>
> CAI had no interest in VRML, and have effectively killed
> Cosmo Player. It's still available for download from
> http://www.cosmosoftware.com but it's not being
> updated or supported. Cosmo Worlds etc. are no longer
> available at all. The NT version anyway - if you have
> an IRIX machine you can download the IRIX version
> of Cosmo Worlds for free from the sgi website.
> Of course, the source code was never released
> either. CAI have a share of MetaStream - more on
> that later.
>
> So Cosmo is dead. VRML, on the other hand, is alive
> and kicking. There are two main players, both European:
>
> Parallel Graphics have the leading VRML plugin, Cortona.
> It's available for Mac, Windows and Windows CE.
> They've announced plans for a Linux version too.
> It's better than Cosmo Player was in a lot of ways.
> It supports a bunch of the new VRML extensions - for
> example NURBS and GeoVRML. It's also stable,
> supported, and actively updated. It also runs on
> Windows as a standalone ActiveX thingy. They
> give it away, and sell a bunch of authoring tools.
> http://www.parallelgraphics.com/
>
> Blaxxun has the other main VRML plugin, Contact.
> It's Windows only, and specialised for multi-user
> worlds. It does NURBS as well. They're doing a lot
> of business. http://www.blaxxun.com/
> http://www.cybertown.com/
>
> Both Parallel Graphics and Blaxxun have Java
> VRML-lite engines as well, to get around the
> plugin-install hump. There's another one such,
> called Shout3D - http://www.shout3d.com/
> The Cortona plugin download is less than 1MB
> (CosmoPlayer was over 3MB as i recall).
>
> There's also an Open Source VRML browser
> called Lookat, available for most platforms.
> http://www.openvrml.org
>
> >Does modern browsers include
> >the plug-ins for VRML viewing?
>
> No :\ No VRML plugin comes bundled with any
> modern web browser. Most people don't have
> them installed. If you want a seamless experience,
> say for a spinning-3D-object in anonline store,
> your best bet is Java. If you want to make a real
> immersive 3D world, you've got to convince people
> to install the plugin.
>
> >It's been years since I've come across a
> >website using VRML.
>
> There are a lot out there, although it's a drop in
> the ocean compared to 2D web pages. I believe it
> always will be - it's just harder to build a virtual
> world than to mark up a page of text, and there
> are less sensible reasons to do it. If you want to
> see a huge list of great VRML worlds, check out:
> http://www.web3d.about.com/compute/web3d/cs/web3dapplications/index.htm
> Go get Cortona first, of course.
> If you want to see something amazing, try
> this one first: http://vrml.environs.com/ivan/
> The lunar lander is astonishing.
>
> >What happened to this technology that was, imho, not
> >actually awesome but somewhat interesting and promising? I mean, some
people
> >have way more bandwidth and processing power available than they did in
> >1996. For instance, the renderings, which didn't look very nice and fast
on
> >my 486 might just work in my Celeron at 600 mhz and downloading vrml
files
> >with a cable modem is a totally different thing than doing it at 28.8.
>
> Yep - this is exactly what's happening, right now. In fact,
> the bandwidth requirements are not all that huge - for
> example, from the site above:
>
> >>The scene shows the famous WW 1 three-wing fighter airplane Fokker
> >>Dr.1 and the detailed and functioning cutaway model of its engine.
> >>The airplane is presented here in two different color schemes - the
> >>green one flown by Ltn. Paul Baumer (43 kills) from Jagdstaffel 2,
> >>and the blue one flown by Ltn. August Raben, leader of Jagdstaffel
> >>18.
> >>
> >>The compressed VRML file size is below 12 kB.
>
> If you don't know what you're doing though, and use
> a first-generation exporter on a high-polygon model
> in a CAD program, it's possible to create huge VRML
> files. This isn't happening so much anymore, thankfully.
>
> The CPU/graphics card requirements are pretty high though,
> especially for complex worlds. Much too high for 1997, which
> was the year of premature VRML hype. However - any recent
> machine (Ivan recommends a Pentium 166MMX with 24 MB of
> RAM and moderately good graphic card running at 16 bit color)
> will display most worlds beautifully. I work with very complex
> models - entire cities. These render jerkily on my original-model
> iBook (laptops are notorious for bad 3D). The recent-model
> iBooks, however, will render even my city-sized worlds at 30FPS,
> fullscreen, no problem.
>
> >What were the problems with vrml besides the processing and bandwidth
issues?
>
> Ubiquity. Chicken and egg. Like a million other plugins,
> you need to get it in the browsers before people can see
> the content, but you need compelling content or the
> browser makers won't put it in.
>
> The install base of VRML is about to climb though -
> VRML is the 3D layer of MPEG4. So it'll be in your
> set-top box.
>
> Sony are working on the next-generation
> of rich-media VRML; their implementation is called
> Blendo, and it runs on the Playstation 2.
>
> >What other options are there available for 3D authoring on webpages?
>
> There are a bunch. You can do VRML and deliver
> for Cortona, or embed it as a Java applet if it's a
> small, non-complex world without too much
> interaction. Go to Parallel Graphics for some
> good tools. Almost all 3D programs export
> VRML geometry, and some of them will export
> VRML animation as well. If you want a visual
> tool for interactivity and animation like Cosmo
> Worlds used to be, try Spazz3D for Windows -
> http://www.spazz3d.com
> It supports NURBS, h-anim for humanoid
> animation, and will export to Shout3D for
> Java delivery if you like. There's a free trial
> and it's cheap to buy.
>
> If you're a Java programmer, you can do
> Java3D, though Java-enhanced VRML seems
> to be more popular these days...
>
> If you just want spinning objects without
> interactivity, then check out Metastream -
> it's not nearly as full-featured as VRML, but
> it does single spinning objects _really well_.
> Great for e-commerce visualisation.
> MetaStream is all that's left of MetaCreations -
> they sold off Poser, Painter, the KPT suite,
> Carrara, Canoma etc in order to just do
> Web3D. They've recently merged with
> Viewpoint Digital and their product name
> is now Explore(?). Note that it only works
> on Windows, and it looks like you need 3D
> Studio Max to author for it, and it looks
> like you need to buy their server license.
> http://www.viewpoint.com
>
> The other option for this kind of thing is to
> do a QuicktimeVR object movie. It's not
> really 3D, just a series of photographs
> that give the illusion of a spinning object.
> But from the end-user's point of view, the
> only difference is that they probably have
> Quicktime, so it'll work. You can also do
> QuicktimeVR panoramas, which are the
> immersive-world thing, but also based on
> photographs (a single panoramic pic in
> this case), so the viewer is in a fixed point
> rather than being able to enter and
> interact with the scene.
> http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtvr/
>
> >I've heard that there are some programs in which you can do some modeling
and
> >export the result to flash but how does this work? How affordable
> >are these tools?
>
> Yep, these are pretty cool. If you want the
> look of 3D, but don't need the user to move
> around the 3D world, they work well. They
> really just render out a 3D animation to
> a 2D vector animation. So it's more of a 3D-look
> effect for Flash, rather than VR. 2 and a half D.
>
> You can generally import a DXF or EPS file and do
> basic stuff with it like trace, extrude, add bevels,
> and rotate it. If you want more complex animation,
> Vecta3D can export one from 3D Studio Max if you
> have it. There are a couple of these; capabilities
> vary, so check them out if you're interested:
> http://www.swift3d.com/ - $139.00
> http://www.vecta3d.com/ - similar price, more
> for the 3D studio Max plugin version.
>
> >Does 3D in a webpage make any sense to you at all?
>
> I'm not sure. 3D on the _net_, absolutely. Quake is
> a good example of this. I reckon a more extensive,
> flexible protocol like VRML, implemented as a standalone
> browser (which is what LookAt is, incidentally), instead
> of imprisoned in a Web Browser plugin, could be amazing.
>
> Spinning objects bore me. I think 2D (e.g. standard
> web pages) belong inside a 3D world. That makes more
> sense to me than embedding 3D objects and environments
> in a 2D page metaphor. The Sony Blendo work has some
> good demos of how to do this well.
>
> On the other hand, the next version of VRML has an XML
> encoding (called X3D) - which makes it easier to integrate
> as a datatype on the Web.
>
> It's a lot of fun to do, anyway, and I think it's reached the
> threshhold of viability now. Time for the VRML comeback ;)
>
> For more info, try http://web3d.about.com
> If you're using a Mac, i help to run MacWeb3D.org - the
> address is in my .sig, but we're having server problems,
> so try the mirror at http://www.karmanaut.com/macweb3d
>
> Regards,
>
> V.
> --
> |  Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut. http://www.karmanaut.com
> |  hypermedia :: virtual worlds :: human interface :: truth :: beauty
> |  http://www.planet-earth.org :: http://www.MacWeb3D.org
> |  http://www.sydney.siggraph.org.au
>
>
>
>
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