From dante at vianet.net.au  Mon Aug 27 01:40:28 2001
From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante)
Date: Mon Aug 27 01:40:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl/CGI Solution Needed
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNOEHOEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <002101c12ec2$d3cf5d00$fd01a8c0@dante>

G'Day All,

I've been experimenting with using a HTML form as part of a (very) basic XML
content management system & I'm stuck :)
I need it to run on Apache so the solutions that I've found using ASP aren't
applicable.
Ideally, what I need is a solution using Perl/cgi that can:

- Upload an image to a folder on the server the server & generate
  image name data (eg: "mycat.gif").
- Convert the HTML form output to populate the XML template below
  then append it to an XML document on the server - within the
  <library> elements & including the image name data ( <image_link> ).

Is this possible?
Has anyone encountered anything similar to this?
Is there a better method?
Is it possible to use javascript for a client-side solution?

The form is online here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~dante/xml/input_form.html
[*IE5+ only]

The XML template:

----------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<library>
    <!--    -->
    <book type="" style="" variant="" id="">
        <title></title>
        <sub_title></sub_title>
        <author first_name="" middle_name="" last_name=""></author>
        <illustrator first_name="" middle_name=""
last_name=""></illustrator>
        <image_link></image_link>
        <description></description>
        <subject></subject>
        <isbn></isbn>
        <genre></genre>
        <publisher></publisher>
        <issue></issue>
        <date day="" month="" year="" />
    </book>
</library>
----------------------------------------------------------

All comments are appreciated  : )~

Thanks,
            dante
            Perth, Western Australia
            dante at vianet.net.au
            www.vianet.net.au/~dante




From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Mon Aug 27 01:41:36 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Mon Aug 27 01:41:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS/DOM: height or bottom of a div?
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b7af715c8654@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEIBEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Glad I could help.


>
>Ladeeeees and Geeeentlmen!
>
>Come! Stare at the slack-jawed yokel as he trips over his own lower
>lip while saying 'Duh!'. Shake your head in amaz-uh-ment as this
>thick headed half wit fails to grasp the obvious!

Don't you just hate it when that happens! :-)

"The most important things to say are those which often I did not think
necessary for me to say -- because they were too obvious." Andr? Gide, The
Journals of Andr? Gide



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From vegapbcn at yahoo.es  Mon Aug 27 02:05:45 2001
From: vegapbcn at yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?VEGAP=20BCN?=)
Date: Mon Aug 27 02:05:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] image location
Message-ID: <20010827070148.44503.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,


Does anybody know a way to decode an image catched
from the web in a way that I could find out any trace
of where it came from? 
Any trace in the code that would let me certify that
that image that catched was in a particular server...
even if after some time the publisher decided to take
it away?
I am not thinking on the particular url of the image
or looking to the html, I am looking for something in
the jpg or gif file.

(sorry if my english is not the best, is my second
lenguage)

Thanks

Kepa



_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente -
http://messenger.yahoo.es



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Aug 27 02:09:05 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Aug 27 02:09:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] image location
In-Reply-To: <20010827070148.44503.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010827000429.01b34378@baratta.com>

Not with the image itself, unless it was watermarked. You'd need to 
interrogate the Cache Database file that ties the image to a particular web 
site.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From nick at triplezero.com.au  Mon Aug 27 03:38:36 2001
From: nick at triplezero.com.au (Nick Boyce)
Date: Mon Aug 27 03:38:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] ActionScript: Finding out a clip's name
Message-ID: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBEEGLCGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>

With the help I have had from some people on thelist, I have a movie that
uses duplicatemovieclip to create lots of movie clips that are draggable.
Please note that this is artwork-less at this stage, it is just there for
the code.

http://www.anarchitect.net/new/anarchitect_test_3.swf

In order to do things like bring it to the front when dragging and set the
URL link for each one, each movie clip must be aware of it's name.

So I assume that I would set a variable called url_15 then on the clip
called clip15 I would grab the number off of the name and add url_ on the
front to get the right variable. Is that right? Or can I set variables that
are specific to layers? For example, can I set the "url" variable in
"clip15" to something and it won't get confused with all of the other layers
which have a variable called "url"?

It will make more sense if you take a look at the example.

Thanks in advance.

Nick

----------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital  |  upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08) 8332 0545 | www.triplezero.com.au | nick at triplezero.com.au




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon Aug 27 05:38:26 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon Aug 27 05:38:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] ActionScript: Finding out a clip's name
In-Reply-To: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBEEGLCGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>
References: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBEEGLCGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>
Message-ID: <p04310100b7afd0d00e75@[192.168.1.100]>

At 6:06 PM +0930 8/27/01, Nick Boyce wrote:
>In order to do things like bring it to the front when dragging and set the
>URL link for each one, each movie clip must be aware of it's name.

You don't have to set it, just use the property _name.

Not sure what your function looks like, but it sounds like _target 
might a more useful variable ... or if you want to bring a duplicated 
movie clip to the front, and you have set the level of a series of 
movie clips with a variable current_level, try

on (press) {
   this.swapDepths(_parent.current_level);
}
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 827 3963

Humility is no substitute for a good personality.
      - Fran Lebowitz
__________________________________________



From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Mon Aug 27 08:17:32 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Mon Aug 27 08:17:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] help! client bought Photoshop!!
Message-ID: <OFF3C5AFA0.EDC46658-ON85256AB5.0047DA48@beaerospace.com>

<snip>
Anyway, this seems to be a an example of people mistaking having
a tool with having the skill to do the job.  If you bought some
accounting software, would it be okay for you to take over doing
all of the company accounts?  If you bought MS Word, do you have
all you need to write good promotional copy or if you bought a
video camera, could you now make decent TV ads?
</snip>

Yeah, it's like thinking that you simply need to give a 3-year-old a
chainsaw and they become a lumberjack.

<snip>
Rather than trying to scare them off with a long list, don't
even present them with a list because that tells them that there
is a possibility (it's a "maybe"; when people really want
something, a "maybe" is as good as a "yes").  Instead say, "sure,
and here's a list of courses I've compiled so that you can learn
the basics before you can start".   You shouldn't give the
impression that the job can be quantified with a list of issues,
because web image manipulation isn't that easy.
</snip>

Agreed.  The laundry list idea was not something I wanted to hand to them,
but rather a bit of evidence to back up my argument.  If it were as simple
as a list, they could just go through it and check the items off and claim
to be an expert.  I'm hoping to show them that I want to work with them,
but that because I am responsible for the site, I must be responsible for
all graphics.

I've since had a discussion with them and they've agreed that to take
responsibility themselves would be too large a step for now.  I've provided
them with info on how I would like the images supplied (as big as possible
and .tif if they have it).  Everyone is happy.

Thanks everybody for your help.  I enjoyed the discussion a lot.
I will follow up with the list I put together from the posts.

-Ron





From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Mon Aug 27 08:22:14 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Mon Aug 27 08:22:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] help! client bought Photoshop!! - FINAL
Message-ID: <OF1D5D8976.B54E18D7-ON85256AB5.0048E9C1@beaerospace.com>

Here's most of the tips supplied... most of the posts ended up being
discussion instead, which was better anyways.
Once again, thanks everyone!  -Ron

- pixel-size restriction
- check the Debabelizer manual
- Don't save as a jpeg more than once. Give info on lossy compression.
- make sure the images are in RGB before converting to jpeg --CMYK images
end up banded when in jpeg format....

---on the humorous side...
- developer of image has an IQ greater than that of a slab of granite
- "Calibrate the arbitrary pixels" and to "adjust for output regulation"
- gamma rating and chromatic ambience, if not chosen correctly, can
invariably lead to incorrect selection of palletized colors on select
platforms, to include, but not limited to, all 256-color capable desktops,
16 bit desktops





From travis at treevis.com  Mon Aug 27 08:36:21 2001
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Mon Aug 27 08:36:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] article on web surfing trends
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010827092636.00ab8960@treevis.com>

the international herald tribune has a feature article by amy harmon on how 
web surfers stick to tried and true sites. 
http://www.iht.com/articles/30515.html

some good points are made, but i wish articles like this would consider how 
many people never change default settings on browsers and how these large 
media companies have content for nearly every subject (because they gobble 
up the failed dot coms and others - to which the author alludes but she 
changes the subject shortly thereafter). it be nice, too, to look at how 
the failure of so many dot coms impacts people's opinion of the web. i'm 
probably going to lose $50 at flooz.com because they're probably going 
bankrupt. it definitely throws up a red flag about how safe it is to give 
your money and personal information to sites that could potentially fail. 
but then again, i also think this trend has a lot to do with how so many 
americans just can't stand to live without homogeneity.

travis




From bucquero at pilot.msu.edu  Mon Aug 27 09:52:19 2001
From: bucquero at pilot.msu.edu (Bonnie Bucqueroux)
Date: Mon Aug 27 09:52:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Converting video?
In-Reply-To: <004001c125e6$6e420210$53500942@clonina>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827103640.027218a0@pilot.msu.edu>

I have a video clip on a CD as an MPEG-1.  I want to use an older Windows 
Media Player converter to make it easier for people to see the thing, but 
only the encoder version 7.1 will do an MPEG-1.  How do I convert the thing 
to a .mov or .avi or some other file that the older encoders can use? I 
have Adobe Premiere on one of my machines -- is that what I need? Can 
anyone advise me about whether I am on the right track and then tell me 
where to go to get more info?

Thanks for helping the vidiot -
Bonnie B




From feed at chicken3.com  Mon Aug 27 09:58:14 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Mon Aug 27 09:58:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Converting video?
Message-ID: <200108271458.f7REwDk17515@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Bonnie.  I just finished a project similar to this.  The easiest thing 
you can do is to upgrade your QuickTime to QuickTime Pro...about $30....then
here are the steps to convert it to a .mov file:

1. Open your MPEG
2. Choose Edit>Extract Tracks
3. Choose your MPEG Track

This will extract the video track in your MPEG movie to a raw format, that
you can then save as a .mov file.

I hope this helps to solve your problem!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Bonnie Bucqueroux <bucquero at pilot.msu.edu>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Converting video?
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 7:39 AM
>

> I have a video clip on a CD as an MPEG-1.  I want to use an older Windows
> Media Player converter to make it easier for people to see the thing, but
> only the encoder version 7.1 will do an MPEG-1.  How do I convert the thing
> to a .mov or .avi or some other file that the older encoders can use? I
> have Adobe Premiere on one of my machines -- is that what I need? Can
> anyone advise me about whether I am on the right track and then tell me
> where to go to get more info?
>
> Thanks for helping the vidiot -
> Bonnie B
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From chrisg at gsnet.com  Mon Aug 27 09:58:17 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Mon Aug 27 09:58:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Converting video?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827103640.027218a0@pilot.msu.edu>
Message-ID: <B7AFBB37.5A81%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Hi Bonnie,

I _think_ Premiere can probably do what you need, but I can't be sure (been
using Final Cut now for the last year).  If it doesn't check out
MediaCleaner:

http://www.media100.com/cleaner/index.html

If you're doing lots of video compression, Cleaner's the way to go anyhow.

HTH,

Chris.

on 8/27/2001 8:39 AM, Bonnie Bucqueroux at bucquero at pilot.msu.edu wrote:

> I have a video clip on a CD as an MPEG-1.  I want to use an older Windows
> Media Player converter to make it easier for people to see the thing, but
> only the encoder version 7.1 will do an MPEG-1.  How do I convert the thing
> to a .mov or .avi or some other file that the older encoders can use? I
> have Adobe Premiere on one of my machines -- is that what I need? Can
> anyone advise me about whether I am on the right track and then tell me
> where to go to get more info?
> 
> Thanks for helping the vidiot -
> Bonnie B




From jillshaw at email.com  Mon Aug 27 09:58:20 2001
From: jillshaw at email.com (Jill Shaw)
Date: Mon Aug 27 09:58:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Good Books for Dreamweaver 4 Ultradev & Fireworks
Message-ID: <20010827075059.27047.qmail@email.com>

Bob
I got 'Macromedia Dreamweaver UltraDev 4 Fast & Easy Web Development' by Aneesha Bakharia when I first started with UltraDev - it didn't solve /everything/ for me, but was a good start. It's divided up into clear sections and does step-by-step procedures quite nicely.
Hope this helps
Jill
-- 

_______________________________________________
Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! 
http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 










From seahorse at inreach.com  Mon Aug 27 10:19:39 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Mon Aug 27 10:19:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] re: please check my site
Message-ID: <001b01c12f0b$f01813a0$6500a8c0@power7006s178p>

Couple of things I noticed:
1.  The navigation links are inconsistent.  Some change colors when rolled
over, some are underlined, some are not.  Some are white, some are orange,
some are brown...and some are not even underlined or indicative of a link,
ie, they don't light up. I would suggest using a more consistant color
scheme for your links.

1a.  I think there are too many choices of where to go, and they all kind of
blend in to the design, so I don't know quite what to pick. Why the second
row of navigation?  What do you want me to do?  Where do you want me to go?
Would this second bar be better placed at the bottom of the page as a
footer?

b.  Your VME navigation on the left is repeated in the body...literally
right next to it.  It seems the body could better explain each division
rather than merely repeating the words.  How about a visual sample of what I
might find inside.  The one image currently in the center of the page looks
more like something I would expect to see in a store.

2.  The rotating gif images are really compressed.  I can hardly make out
what they are, and I think you would be better off to get rid of it, or put
in a static image or nice collage which dosn't look so pixelated.  I find it
distracting, compared to the top banner....the quality is very noticible.

Overall I really like the design.  The colors and the map, and stuff make me
remember the days of the Army...."Yes, drill sergeant!" Very nice work!

Chris






From Tab.Alleman at RealMetros.com  Mon Aug 27 10:28:23 2001
From: Tab.Alleman at RealMetros.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Aug 27 10:28:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] posting to xml
Message-ID: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF370459B7@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Here's the steps of what I'm trying to do (easiest to describe this
way):

1.  I POST a form with lots of hidden fields to another company's script
(can't use a GET.. it would be too long)
2.  The other company returns an xml page which I need to stuff into a
DOMDocument or xml Island

I'm currently using MSXML 3.0...  if I use the xmlhttp object, I can set
the method to POST, but how do I send along the hidden <input>'s?  Is
there another way?  

Once again, using GET isn't an option, and just displaying the XML
return with XSL isn't an option.

Thanks for any ideas!

Tab



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Mon Aug 27 10:41:15 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Mon Aug 27 10:41:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for reseller package
In-Reply-To: <004901c12dfa$4d2615a0$df694f18@vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIIEKMCFAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

Ditto on the experthost thing. I?ve been with them for two years (back then
they were i-wiz) and have nothing but good to report. Best prices + best
service = you are a great reseller.

BH

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Groen
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:43 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Looking for reseller package
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole Parrot" <nicole at parrot.ca>
> Sent: August 25, 2001 6:36 PM
> Subject: [thelist] Looking for reseller package
>
>
> > I'm looking for a reseller package. I found one that I liked, except
> that
> > it's hosted in Great Britain, while I'm in Canada. I'd like to have
> > something more within my hours. (eastern time zone)
>
> I've just recently opened an account with http://www.experhost.com and
> have been impressed so far. Like the other post from Cayley,
> (netpaths.net), they are a US entity (NJ Tech Solutions), but have an
> office in Ontario and their prices are pretty good AFAIK, even with
> loonie $.
>
> > Also I'm totally new to the reseller business, and I'm not entirely
> sure
> > what I should be looking for.
> Anyone else on this one? It would be nice to get some URL's for general
> info on this subject to at least have little enough knowledge on this to
> be dangerous eh. Now that I am building a clientele, they *want!* to
> give me their money to host their sites, manage their email accounts,
> etc., and because they trust me knowing the pitfalls in advance may save
> some heart ache.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From jmlucero at webicarus.com  Mon Aug 27 11:01:09 2001
From: jmlucero at webicarus.com (Juan Manuel Lucero)
Date: Mon Aug 27 11:01:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
References: <20010827055802.2467E98D@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000801c12f10$eb691840$4e14fea9@juan>

Hi! I just did an animation using Dreamweaver timeline...Everything seemed
to work ok...till? I checked the page with Netscape 4.75....

Do you know if there?s anything I can do to fix this....?

Too see the "real" animation, check the page with iexplorer , to see (my
mistake?) check it with Netscape (4.77 and <)

URL:

http://www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html

Thanks.

Juan Manuel.




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Aug 27 11:16:42 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Mon Aug 27 11:16:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Good Books for Dreamweaver 4 Ultradev & Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <20010827075059.27047.qmail@email.com>
Message-ID: <000501c12f13$c7a68e30$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Thanks Jill,

This helps me a lot, I just want to get the best info for the job at hand,
which at this point is learning how to use and integrate Dreamweaver
Ultradev 4 and Fireworks 4.

Thanks again,
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jill Shaw
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:51 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Re: Good Books for Dreamweaver 4 Ultradev & Fireworks


Bob
I got 'Macromedia Dreamweaver UltraDev 4 Fast & Easy Web Development' by
Aneesha Bakharia when I first started with UltraDev - it didn't solve
/everything/ for me, but was a good start. It's divided up into clear
sections and does step-by-step procedures quite nicely.
Hope this helps
Jill
--

_______________________________________________
Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free!
http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143








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From mpember at phreaker.net  Mon Aug 27 11:17:36 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Mon Aug 27 11:17:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
References: <20010827055802.2467E98D@relay.evolt.org> <000801c12f10$eb691840$4e14fea9@juan>
Message-ID: <3B8A71BD.A1E1ED89@phreaker.net>

I just checked it in NS4.78 (Win2k) and had no problems.  It looked just
the way that it does in my IE5.0 setup

Juan Manuel Lucero wrote:
> 
> Hi! I just did an animation using Dreamweaver timeline...Everything seemed
> to work ok...till? I checked the page with Netscape 4.75....
> 
> Do you know if there?s anything I can do to fix this....?
> 
> Too see the "real" animation, check the page with iexplorer , to see (my
> mistake?) check it with Netscape (4.77 and <)

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From hershelsr at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 12:36:02 2001
From: hershelsr at yahoo.com (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon Aug 27 12:36:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Another site critique
References: <20010827055802.2467E98D@relay.evolt.org> <000801c12f10$eb691840$4e14fea9@juan> <3B8A71BD.A1E1ED89@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <01a301c12f26$e9ad0e60$0101c80a@hershel>

I did not make this site, but I may take over the design and development of
it.  It is presently still under construction.  The current design seems to
be the hard work of yet another recent graduate of Jones and Rupert's
Internet Design Emporium and Trade School.  That's just my opinion however.
Maybe you will all think it's brilliant.

http://www.kpons.com/

Hershel


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From feed at chicken3.com  Mon Aug 27 12:44:28 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Mon Aug 27 12:44:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Another site critique
Message-ID: <200108271744.f7RHiRk29069@leo.evolt.org>

Yes, yes, we all know about the folks that design web sites for $150 that 
are less than desirable, and clients have a hard time seeing any difference
because what they are focused on is the bottom line, as they should be.

But, don't hop on the high horse yet...this may have been an excellent
designer, who had to rape themselves of all their talent because the client
demanded something else.  Trust me, I have been through many a situation
like this before.  My tip, if this happens to you; add a line in your
contract that forbids your client to divulge who their designer was....


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Hershel Robinson" <hershelsr at yahoo.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Another site critique
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 11:34 AM
>

> http://www.kpons.com/



From muinar at gmx.net  Mon Aug 27 12:53:39 2001
From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar)
Date: Mon Aug 27 12:53:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] rewrite/redirect php3 to php?
In-Reply-To: <20010827055757.9A186940@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827194331.00a29280@mail.gmx.net>

Hello

It's hard to find something on this, although it seems to
me that it's a quite common problem:

I switched to a new server which has php4 installed instead
of the old php3. I renamed all the pages and links to .php
(The old version needed the filename ending php3)

Now when a visitor uses an old bookmark which ends with .php3,
he will get a 404 error. Is there a way to rewrite or redirect
users to the according php page? If this can be done with
mod_rewrite in Apache, I'd appreciate any hints.

Thank you!




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Aug 27 13:03:33 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:03:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F1@arnold.bedrock.com>

Evolters,

Specifically those versed in the perplexities of the language whose namesake
is, at this moment and for all practical purposes known, an elusive promise
of well-being and peaceful source of plenty.

While submitting the usual query to the usual datasource, I encountered
something for which I, through my own deficient experience, a trudge through
the documentation, and a number of searches on Google, am at a loss to
explain.

ColdFusion isn't escaping the single quote in my variable parameter of my
query.

I know ColdFusion usually does this by default, but is there an instance (or
more) where this doesn't happen, like, well, expected?

<haha>
Hmm. I was just checking to see if someone answered this before I sent it,
which sometimes happens, but it looks like clicking send will work best....
8)
</haha>

<rory disposition="thanks in advance, during, but especially after the
assistance" alt="8)"/>



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Aug 27 13:08:04 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:08:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F1@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIEEOBKBAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> ColdFusion isn't escaping the single quote in my variable parameter of my
> query.
>
> I know ColdFusion usually does this by default, but is there an
> instance (or
> more) where this doesn't happen, like, well, expected?
>

Yes. If you pass a complex var to a query, the value will not be escaped.
For example:

<CFSET Foo = StructNew()>
<CFSET Foo["Test"] = "Ray's Diner">
<CFQUERY ...>
	select blah from blah
	where name = '#Foo["Test"]#'
</CFQUERY>

In this case, the value of Foo["Test"] will not be escaped. To get around
this, just do:

<CFSET Temp = Foo["Test"]> and pass #Temp# to the query.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From fgorton at figleaf.com  Mon Aug 27 13:16:14 2001
From: fgorton at figleaf.com (Frank Gorton)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:16:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design/Usability Question
Message-ID: <24C2F50005C0D4119D750008C7D3820D01063697@figdcaexc1.figleaf.com>

Hello Everyone,

I was having a discussion with some co-workers, and we were talking about
user interfaces for admin systems.  There are 3 different systems that we
seemed to like in our discussions, but could not agree with which makes a
nicer admin system interface, so I thought I would toss this out to the
group for discussion.

Which type of interface do you like better, and why:
http://www.designplaza.net
http://www.egomedia.com
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/itsolutio
ns/Default.asp

When commenting please just focus on the layout, not whether using Flash
better then DHTML.  I am trying to get different opinions on the layout.

Thanks
Frank


--
Frank Gorton
Senior Project Manager

............................................................................
......................
Fig Leaf Software    			http://www.figleaf.com
1400 16th Street NW, 			office:  202.797.6518
Suite 500                   			
Washington, DC 20036                           fax:     202.797.5444  
............................................................................
......................





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Aug 27 13:18:50 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:18:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F2@arnold.bedrock.com>

| In this case, the value of Foo["Test"] will not be escaped. 
| To get around
| this, just do:
| 
| <CFSET Temp = Foo["Test"]> and pass #Temp# to the query.

Raymond,

Thanks! That's great. This must be what it is, since I am using the members
of a structure in the query.

One more small issue, then...

I have, well, what seems to me, innumerable parameters in this structure.
This, combined with the little know fact that I don't really like to type so
much (Haha! God is the Most Humorous, making me a programmer and all!) would
make the solution somewhat undesirable. 

Is there a lazy way to do it, say a function called
DontEvenThinkAboutPreserveSingleQuotes() or something?

<rory disposition="incalculably appreciative -- I don't mix math and emotion
very well" alt="8)"/>



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Aug 27 13:21:08 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:21:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F2@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIOEOCKBAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> I have, well, what seems to me, innumerable parameters in this structure.
> This, combined with the little know fact that I don't really like 
> to type so
> much (Haha! God is the Most Humorous, making me a programmer and 
> all!) would
> make the solution somewhat undesirable. 
> 
> Is there a lazy way to do it, say a function called
> DontEvenThinkAboutPreserveSingleQuotes() or something?
> 

Nope, sorry. :)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 



From joshua at alphashop.net  Mon Aug 27 13:22:54 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:22:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIOEOCKBAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <0a5a01c12f25$88a4ed50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Hmm,

How about Replace(foo["bar"], "'", "''", "ALL")

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Camden" <jedimaster at macromedia.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion


:
: > I have, well, what seems to me, innumerable parameters in this
structure.
: > This, combined with the little know fact that I don't really like
: > to type so
: > much (Haha! God is the Most Humorous, making me a programmer and
: > all!) would
: > make the solution somewhat undesirable.
: >
: > Is there a lazy way to do it, say a function called
: > DontEvenThinkAboutPreserveSingleQuotes() or something?
: >
:
: Nope, sorry. :)
:
: =======================================================================
: Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Aug 27 13:25:31 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Aug 27 13:25:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
In-Reply-To: <0a5a01c12f25$88a4ed50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIKEODKBAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> How about Replace(foo["bar"], "'", "''", "ALL")

Duh, yea, good call there. Would be a good UDF. ;) (FYI, we broke 150 UDFs
on cflib.org.)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Aug 27 14:03:16 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:03:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design/Usability Question
Message-ID: <OFB90E0912.3E51BD5D-ON80256AB5.0067AF93@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hey Frank,

Which matters more - whether it's nicer, or whether it's easier to use?

If (as I suspect) it's the latter, why not do some testing of user
performance
of tasks using each of the three interfaces, with the following KPIs:

1) Which resulted in fewer errors?
2) Which enabled the task performance in minimum time?

These are the two biggies for RoI of interfaces, but also important are

3) Which annoyed the users least? (tiny annoyances become enormous ones
   when multiplied over n uses a day)
4) Which did the users understand quickest? (minimises training effort
required)

Before you subject each to user testing, also have a look over each with
some objective usability heuristics - they'll save you from a few obvious
errors which the project team are too subjectively involved to spot.

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] Design/Usability Question


I was having a discussion with some co-workers, and we were talking about
user interfaces for admin systems.  There are 3 different systems that we
seemed to like in our discussions, but could not agree with which makes a
nicer admin system interface, so I thought I would toss this out to the
group for discussion.

Which type of interface do you like better, and why:
http://www.designplaza.net
http://www.egomedia.com
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/itsolutio

ns/Default.asp


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Aug 27 14:10:49 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:10:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F3@arnold.bedrock.com>

| How about Replace(foo["bar"], "'", "''", "ALL")

Joshua,

Mmmm... that's a good one. I kind of thought about this a little, but was
thinking from the side of JS on the client side, not the server side...

Yea, just saw Raymond's next post. This would be a good UDF, looping through
the fields of the structure and escaping the single quotes. I think I've
wanted to investigate the intricacies of UDFs anyway...

Well, I was going to render a laughable quip about the negative response
from Raymond and leave a tip, but now everyone gets a tip without the joke!
(What was that loud exhaling-like sound?)

Thanks for the guidance!

<rory disposition="nap time already!" alt="|)"/>

<tip type="SQL Server Stored Procedures" author="anonymous -- didn't want
identity associated with MS" comment="No offense to MS, its just that, well,
they are a little troubling right now. Kind of like wearing Nikes.">

Creating Stored Procedures in the little box that SQL Server gives you is
somewhat depressing. Sure, the little box color codes the commands and,
after all, you _can_ resize it, unlike other, horrible and painful
experiences to grievous to mention with similar boxes. But, there is a total
lack of editing tools, it disables the rest of the Enterprise Manager
console while you use it, and, even more destructive, no "save" feature in
case someone determines that the server needs rebooting, again, and thinks
to give everyone bounties of working on the inner, character benefits of
patience, forbearance, fortitude, sacrifice, work-life balance and
moderation, etc. by simply hitting that reset button.

While these qualities are good, it may be counterproductive to allow someone
or something else to monopolize your spiritual development. Look at the
history of religion, for example. To save yourself from this despair, and
the agony of the sequence -- 

you: click "OK." 

SS: "Bonk! Your SQL is complete garbage, try again!" 

you: type-type-type, comment, comment. 

SS: "Ha! You call this code! Shame, shame on you!"

you: <whimper> type-type, slash star, page down, star slash

boss: "Hey! Where _are_ you, the meeting started!" 

you: click "OK."

SS: "I'm sorry, I just can't accept that a page full of comments constitutes
a stored procedure. I demand _real_ code." 

you: <sob> 

... then try creating the code in the Query Analyzer! Yes, free with your
Dee-lucks copy of SQL Server is this nice tool which not only does the save
you need, but color codes as well! If you act now, you can also check the
code without executing it AND highlight only the code you want executed and
press F5, bingo-bango, you execute only that code! Wow! Great for testing
that 1000 line Stored Proc... All free (previous purchase of Super Sized SQL
Server absolutely required)!


</tip>



From web at master.gen.in.us  Mon Aug 27 14:20:17 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:20:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] rewrite/redirect php3 to php?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827194331.00a29280@mail.gmx.net>
References: <20010827055757.9A186940@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B8A6492.28314.4AC14C0@localhost>

On 27 Aug 2001, at 19:50, muinar posted a message which said:

> I switched to a new server which has php4 installed instead
> of the old php3. I renamed all the pages and links to .php
> (The old version needed the filename ending php3)
 
> Now when a visitor uses an old bookmark which ends with .php3,
> he will get a 404 error. Is there a way to rewrite or redirect
> users to the according php page? If this can be done with
> mod_rewrite in Apache, I'd appreciate any hints.

How about RedirectMatch?

Syntax: RedirectMatch [status] regex URL
Context: server config, virtual host, directory, .htaccess
Override: FileInfo
Status: Base
Module: mod_alias

This directive is equivalent to Redirect, but makes use of 
standard regular expressions, instead of simple prefix 
matching. The supplied regular expression is matched 
against the URL-path, and if it matches, the server will 
substitute any parenthesized matches into the given 
string and use it as a filename. For example, to redirect 
all GIF files to like-named JPEG files on another server, 
one might use:

RedirectMatch (.*)\.gif$ http://www.anotherserver.com$1.jpg


------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 27 14:21:24 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:21:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F3@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEDHINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

rory,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com
>
> Yea, just saw Raymond's next post. This would be a good
> UDF, looping through the fields of the structure and
> escaping the single quotes. I think I've wanted to
> investigate the intricacies of UDFs anyway...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

actually, i wouldn't make a udf to apply the changes to an entire structure.
instead, i'd make a udf that applied the change to a single variable or
simple value key of a structure.  the reason for this is performance and
simplicity.

if you build it to apply the replace to all keys of a structure then you
have to also make sure to check that the value of the key is a simple value
and not a complex one like an array or another structure.  additionally,
you're looping through the structure a minimum of one time more than you
need to.  you're already looping for the query.  why not just do the replace
then?  also, if you loop over the structure in your function, are you sure
you want *all* key values to be escaped?

here's how i'd do it:

<cfscript>
  function DontEvenThinkAboutPreserveSingleQuotes(string)
  {
    return Replace(string, "'", "''", "ALL");
  }
</cfscript>

couldn't be simpler (except perhaps the name *grin*)

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Aug 27 14:33:37 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:33:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEDHINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIEEOKKBAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> actually, i wouldn't make a udf to apply the changes to an entire
> structure.
> instead, i'd make a udf that applied the change to a single variable or
> simple value key of a structure.  the reason for this is performance and
> simplicity.
>
> if you build it to apply the replace to all keys of a structure then you
> have to also make sure to check that the value of the key is a
> simple value
> and not a complex one like an array or another structure.  additionally,

Well, that's not hard to do though, you do have access to IsSimpleValue().

However, yes, it would be better to write the udf to handle just the value
itself, not the entire structure.

If you do use the structure, and this applies to sending structs to udfs in
general, don't forget that a struct passed to a udf is passed by reference,
not by value. This applies to queries as well.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From ray at opengrid.com  Mon Aug 27 14:39:38 2001
From: ray at opengrid.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:39:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] a link question
Message-ID: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FF90@directmail.opengrid.com>

Phil Jones wrote:
> I am copying a link that has a % key in the link.  When it get
> to the % it break the link and you can not get the full link
> address because of this.  Is there any other way or symbol to
> use for this so you will get the full address for the link.

The % sign is used as an escape-type character in a URL.  When the browser
sees a %, it replaces it and the two characters that follow it with the
character that they represent (%3F becomes ?, %26 becomes &, etc).

I threw together a quick little translator for you that will let you see the
encoded version of whatever text you type in.  But the short answer is that
the escaped version for % is %25.

http://prydain.com/urlencode.php
[PHP code shown below, incase you want to reproduce this locally]

--ray



<html>

<head>
<title>URL Encoding</title>
<style>
.Header {color: #FFFFFF; font-family: Arial;}
.HeaderCell {background-color: #000000;}
P {font-family: Arial;}
</style>
</head>

<body>

<form method="post" name="encodeForm">
<div align="center"><center>
<table width="500" bordercolor="#000000" border="1" cellpadding="5"
cellspacing="0">
  <tr>
    <td align="center" class="HeaderCell">
      <p class="Header"><b>URL Encoding</b></p>
    </td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>
      <p>Enter a URL or character in the text field and click <b>Encode</b> 
      to see the URL-encoded version of the data you entered.</p>
			
      <p><b>Un-Encoded:</b><br>
      <input type="text" name="inputData" size="60" value="<?= $inputData;
?>">
      <input type="submit" name="submit" value="Encode"></p>
      
      <?
      if ($inputData) {
        // They did enter some data, so URL encode it and show it to them.
        print("<p><b>URL Encoded:</b><br>");
        print(urlencode($inputData));
        print("</p>");
      }
      ?>
    </td>
  </tr>
</table>
</center></div>
</form>

</body>
</html>



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Aug 27 14:44:47 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:44:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] No Escape from ColdFusion
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0F5@arnold.bedrock.com>

| you're already looping for the query.  why not just 
| do the replace then?  

+1

| couldn't be simpler (except perhaps the name *grin*)

Yea, but if it were simple, my job would be that much more insecure! ;)

Better leave a tip for that one...

<tip type="ColdFusion Queries">
When adding comments to your code, don't put HTML comments in <cfquery> tags
-- this breaks the query, but returns an error which makes it hard to
diagnose.
</tip>



From nonzero at well.com  Mon Aug 27 14:55:46 2001
From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:55:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript formatter
Message-ID: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>

Does anyone know of a tool ala-codesweeper to nicely format JavaScript code?

I'm having to debug a 50k JavaScript hairball the is all on one line.  The
guy who wrote the code quit under bad terms so I have no idea if he has a
nicely formatted version somewhere.

{
 Kevin D. White
 Salt Lake City, UT
 nonzero at well.com
}




From r.taft at williams-helde.com  Mon Aug 27 14:59:04 2001
From: r.taft at williams-helde.com (Robert Taft)
Date: Mon Aug 27 14:59:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript formatter
In-Reply-To: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
References: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b7b054da3a9f@[209.102.103.32]>

hey,
Try replacing ";" with ";\r" (or whatever else is a line ending) that 
may give you somthing to start with.
- rob
-- 
Rob Taft
Revelador Del Web
Williams-Helde
206-285-1940



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon Aug 27 15:05:27 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:05:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] rewrite/redirect php3 to php?
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827194331.00a29280@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B8AA6A4.A5D1712B@avencom.com>

muinar wrote:
> It's hard to find something on this, although it seems to
> me that it's a quite common problem:
> 
> I switched to a new server which has php4 installed instead
> of the old php3. I renamed all the pages and links to .php
> (The old version needed the filename ending php3)
> 
> Now when a visitor uses an old bookmark which ends with .php3,
> he will get a 404 error. Is there a way to rewrite or redirect
> users to the according php page? If this can be done with
> mod_rewrite in Apache, I'd appreciate any hints.
> 
> Thank you!

How about this - put this in an .htaccess file at your root level
directory.

#HOW TO MAKE .php files masquerade as .php3
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule  ^(.+).php3 $1.php

This will also propagate to child directories.

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From nonzero at well.com  Mon Aug 27 15:10:29 2001
From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:10:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript formatter
References: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com> <a05100300b7b054da3a9f@[209.102.103.32]>
Message-ID: <007301c12f34$3a544290$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>

Done that already.  Tricks like that work okay except when there is
Javascript that writes out other JavaScript.  That's when I get stuck
spending 3 hours pouring through over 600 lines of JavaScript code and
reassembling bits by hand before I can even begin to understand it.

Sorry, today is a bad day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Taft" <r.taft at williams-helde.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] javascript formatter


> hey,
> Try replacing ";" with ";\r" (or whatever else is a line ending) that
> may give you somthing to start with.
> - rob
> --
> Rob Taft
> Revelador Del Web
> Williams-Helde
> 206-285-1940
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From michael at tdh-marketing.com  Mon Aug 27 15:22:45 2001
From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:22:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>

Maybe someone can help me with this...I am trying to find out exactly how a
stylesheet is referenced by the browser when using the <link
rel="stylesheet" etc..> within the HTML document.  Does the browser actually
downloads the stylesheet or does the browser just "query" the stylesheet for
each and every HTML tag?

The reason I am trying to find out is that we have a client who has a
quoting system that we built using PHP and mySQL.  With reps from all over
the world using this thing, the quote records are numerous.  When a user
decides to view all records, it takes a bit of time due to the number of
records on the database.  So we are looking to optimize the page as much as
possible.  We have already clean up our PHP code and streamlined the
database.  Now it is just a matter of tweakin the HTML portion if at all
possible.

I know we are only going to get so much improvement but I am also very
curious on how a browser reacts to the <link rel="stylesheet" etc> question.

Thanks for any info

Michael




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon Aug 27 15:28:36 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:28:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
Message-ID: <3B8AAC11.84017DD3@avencom.com>

Michael Goddard wrote:
> Maybe someone can help me with this...I am trying to find out exactly how a
> stylesheet is referenced by the browser when using the <link
> rel="stylesheet" etc..> within the HTML document.  Does the browser actually
> downloads the stylesheet or does the browser just "query" the stylesheet for
> each and every HTML tag?
> 
> The reason I am trying to find out is that we have a client who has a
> quoting system that we built using PHP and mySQL.  With reps from all over
> the world using this thing, the quote records are numerous.  When a user
> decides to view all records, it takes a bit of time due to the number of
> records on the database.  So we are looking to optimize the page as much as
> possible.  We have already clean up our PHP code and streamlined the
> database.  Now it is just a matter of tweakin the HTML portion if at all
> possible.
> 
> I know we are only going to get so much improvement but I am also very
> curious on how a browser reacts to the <link rel="stylesheet" etc> question.
> 
> Thanks for any info

As I understand it, stylesheets are loaded whole into memory, then
applied as the html is rendered. What are you thinking? Loading a
limited or custom stylesheet? I'm wondering what you're *hoping* for
here. Might help you design an architecture that makes sense. For
example, maybe for your purposes it would make sense to generate a
<style type="text/css"> block </style> that's custom, and link out to a
global stylesheet as well...

	-Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From joshua at alphashop.net  Mon Aug 27 15:28:45 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:28:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
Message-ID: <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

The browser sends out a separate request for the style sheet and downloads
it into cache.  The browser then uses the information it contains to stylize
all on-page elements.  It is not downloaded or referenced across the web for
each element on the page.

Therefore, even if you have an appreciable number of tags on the page, you
should not see lag above and beyond the normal time required to render a
complex and lengthy page.

HTH,
-joshua



----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Goddard" <michael at tdh-marketing.com>
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets


: Maybe someone can help me with this...I am trying to find out exactly how
a
: stylesheet is referenced by the browser when using the <link
: rel="stylesheet" etc..> within the HTML document.  Does the browser
actually
: downloads the stylesheet or does the browser just "query" the stylesheet
for
: each and every HTML tag?




From LeeStewart at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug 27 15:32:22 2001
From: LeeStewart at bigfoot.com (Lee Stewart)
Date: Mon Aug 27 15:32:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Converting video?
In-Reply-To: <20010827183750.0E00CA12@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BHEDLLPJFABBFBAIOHGOMELFCJAA.LeeStewart@bigfoot.com>

> I have Adobe Premiere on one of my machines -- is that what I need? Can
> anyone advise me about whether I am on the right track and then tell me
> where to go to get more info?

Premiere should do it for you and it's pretty easy (I just did did this for
http://www.cafescat.com/geinpromo.htm ).

1) Start a new project and add the MPEG1 clip.  When you create a new
project, you'll need to know the dimensions of the MPEG clip (720x480, I
think).  Adding the clip is simple enough - on the file File menu, pick
Import, and then File.

2) Add the clip to the timeline - just drag and drop it.

3) Export it to whatever format you need.  Under the File menu is a "Export
Timeline" option that includes "Save for Web".  I exported as a QuickTime,
but they have several options.


This is for Premiere 6.0, but 5.x is similar enough that you should be able
to figure it out.


Let me know if you have more questions.



--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Lee Stewart               StripedCow Technology Group, Inc.
http://www.stripedcow.com          advanced web development




From pberry at piratehaven.org  Mon Aug 27 16:09:35 2001
From: pberry at piratehaven.org (Patrick Berry)
Date: Mon Aug 27 16:09:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
In-Reply-To: <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>; from joshua@alphashop.net on Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:30:29PM -0400
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael> <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>

>>> Joshua Olson had the thought that... <<<

> The browser sends out a separate request for the style sheet and downloads
> it into cache.  The browser then uses the information it contains to stylize
> all on-page elements.  It is not downloaded or referenced across the web for
> each element on the page.
> 
> Therefore, even if you have an appreciable number of tags on the page, you
> should not see lag above and beyond the normal time required to render a
> complex and lengthy page.
> 
> HTH,
> -joshua

In a perfect world, using a style sheet should save you file size on
the actual html documents since you would have less <font> tag clutter
8-)

Pat
-- 
http://pberry.weblogs.com - As if you would want to hear what I think...



From nicole at parrot.ca  Mon Aug 27 16:09:51 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Mon Aug 27 16:09:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for reseller package
References: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIIEKMCFAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c12f3b$c2cd60a0$6d00a8c0@mshome.net>

thanks for the pointer to ExpertHost. Their restriction of 50 Megs per
domain is too restrictive. We have two domains so far with 500 Megs each and
growing (well, one is growing).

I'm talking with Netpaths.net for the moment..

Nicole

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Haenel" <bill at webmarketingworx.com>
> Ditto on the experthost thing. I've been with them for two years (back
then
> they were i-wiz) and have nothing but good to report. Best prices + best
> service = you are a great reseller.












From matt at wwwood.net  Mon Aug 27 19:52:37 2001
From: matt at wwwood.net (Matt Feldman)
Date: Mon Aug 27 19:52:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <20010827192954.1F23C52089@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIALCBKAOOEJKHKEDOEKHCAAA.matt@wwwood.net>

Can anyone give me an example of how to align numbers in a table column by
the decimal point?




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Aug 27 19:58:34 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Aug 27 19:58:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIALCBKAOOEJKHKEDOEKHCAAA.matt@wwwood.net>
References: <20010827192954.1F23C52089@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010827175356.0297cf40@baratta.com>

At 05:53 PM 8/27/2001, you wrote:
>Can anyone give me an example of how to align numbers in a table column by
>the decimal point?


<tr><td>Integer</td><td>.</td><td>decimal</td><tr>

----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 20:04:56 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Aug 27 20:04:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010827175356.0297cf40@baratta.com>
References: <NFBBIALCBKAOOEJKHKEDOEKHCAAA.matt@wwwood.net>
Message-ID: <200108280104.f7S14uk31673@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Anthony Baratta <Anthony at Baratta.com>
[...]
> >Can anyone give me an example of how to align numbers in a table
> >column by the decimal point?
> 
> <tr><td>Integer</td><td>.</td><td>decimal</td><tr>

don't forget to align="right" the integer...

another approach i've used on the server side is to count out the 
maximum number of decimals i'll be using (significant digits) and 
adjust all my numbers so they have those decimals in them, even 
it's a whole number with 5 trailing zeros... or hell, run it though 
whatever the currency function is on your platform of choice if 2 
digits after the decimal will do it...

less tabling, less code... but you gotta have server-side scripting 
capability...




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 27 20:05:13 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Aug 27 20:05:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIALCBKAOOEJKHKEDOEKHCAAA.matt@wwwood.net>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEFAINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

matt,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Matt Feldman
>
> Can anyone give me an example of how to align numbers
> in a table column by the decimal point?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

for data that has varying lengths for the decimal value:

<table>
<tr>
  <td align="right">26</td>
  <td>.</td>
  <td>83</td>
</tr>
<tr>
  <td align="right">13</td>
  <td>.</td>
  <td>913</td>
</tr>
<tr>
  <td align="right">4</td>
  <td>.</td>
  <td>3</td>
</tr>
<tr>
  <td align="right">1234</td>
  <td>.</td>
  <td>37823</td>
</tr>
</table>

or, for dollar amounts (or other numbers where the same number of characters
to the right of the decimal is the same across all numbers displayed):

<table>
<tr><td align="right">26.83</td></tr>
<tr><td align="right">13.92</td></tr>
<tr><td align="right">4.30</td></tr>
<tr><td align="right">1234.38</td></tr>
</table>

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From jmlucero at webicarus.com  Mon Aug 27 20:39:50 2001
From: jmlucero at webicarus.com (Juan Manuel Lucero)
Date: Mon Aug 27 20:39:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
References: <20010827065325.A177E9AC@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000801c12f61$b43219c0$4e14fea9@juan>

The first animation seems to be ok. But when you click on any of the moving
images, it should display an animated gif in the center surrounded by the
images..that?s what I can?t see in NS 4.77...

If anybody else can check the (bug?) (mistake?)....will be appreciated....

Juan.
[  www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html  ]

> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:13:49 +1000
> From: Michael Pemberton <mpember at phreaker.net>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] DHTML animation
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> I just checked it in NS4.78 (Win2k) and had no problems.  It looked just
> the way that it does in my IE5.0 setup
>
> Juan Manuel Lucero wrote:
> >
> > Hi! I just did an animation using Dreamweaver timeline...Everything
seemed
> > to work ok...till? I checked the page with Netscape 4.75....
> >
> > Do you know if there?s anything I can do to fix this....?
> >
> > Too see the "real" animation, check the page with iexplorer , to see (my
> > mistake?) check it with Netscape (4.77 and <)
>
www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html
> --
> Michael Pemberton
> mpember at phreaker.net
> ICQ: 12107010





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Aug 27 20:50:19 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Mon Aug 27 20:50:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEFAINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000701c12f63$ecf4d2a0$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Hi all,

I'm a little confused(such is the norm),I was actually reading about this
last night. The new alignment attributes in HTML 4.0 say that you can use
align="char"   to align numbers on their decimal points. I guess I'm not
understanding how it should be used.

Can someone clarify the use for this particular attribute for me.

Thanks,
Bob







---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Mon Aug 27 21:23:12 2001
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:23:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <000701c12f63$ecf4d2a0$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNEEIMEAAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>

> Can someone clarify the use for this particular attribute for me.

It means that you should be able to do this:

<table>
<tr><td align=".">400.235</td></tr>
<tr><td align=".">3.00121</td></tr>
<tr><td align=".">1.21</td></tr>
</table>

and have all the dots line up.

doesn't seem to work in any of the browsers i tried tho (i tested in
IE5.5/NT4 & NS6/NT4, it might work in mac ie5, but i'm too lazy to try it
right now :o)

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Production Artist/Coder,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au




From mpember at phreaker.net  Mon Aug 27 21:25:19 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:25:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
References: <20010827065325.A177E9AC@relay.evolt.org> <000801c12f61$b43219c0$4e14fea9@juan>
Message-ID: <3B8B0037.3531A1A@phreaker.net>

As someone who has avoided ever using Dreamweaver for DHTML work.  I can
only go off what I do know.

I've used a DHTML api called the DynAPI.  It has animation extensions
and can do all of the stuff your page needs.

I'd be more than willing to give you a hand if you wanted to go down
that path.

To see what I am talking about, check out:
    http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/dynapi/

Juan Manuel Lucero wrote:
> 
> The first animation seems to be ok. But when you click on any of the moving
> images, it should display an animated gif in the center surrounded by the
> images..that?s what I can?t see in NS 4.77...
> 
> If anybody else can check the (bug?) (mistake?)....will be appreciated....
> 
> Juan.
> [  www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html  ]
> 
> > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:13:49 +1000
> > From: Michael Pemberton <mpember at phreaker.net>
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: Re: [thelist] DHTML animation
> > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >
> > I just checked it in NS4.78 (Win2k) and had no problems.  It looked just
> > the way that it does in my IE5.0 setup
> >
> > Juan Manuel Lucero wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi! I just did an animation using Dreamweaver timeline...Everything
> seemed
> > > to work ok...till? I checked the page with Netscape 4.75....
> > >
> > > Do you know if there?s anything I can do to fix this....?
> > >
> > > Too see the "real" animation, check the page with iexplorer , to see (my
> > > mistake?) check it with Netscape (4.77 and <)
> >
> www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html
> > --
> > Michael Pemberton
> > mpember at phreaker.net
> > ICQ: 12107010
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Mon Aug 27 21:41:05 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:41:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIALCBKAOOEJKHKEDOEKHCAAA.matt@wwwood.net>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEIOEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Matt,

Depending on which browsers you are supporting, you can use CSS either
inline or in an external stylesheet.

the definition you want would look something like:

td.dot {text-align:"."}

and in the HTML <td class="dot">247.41</td> etc

or inline

< td style="text-align:','">247.41</td> etc

hth

Mark

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matt Feldman
>Sent: 28 August 2001 8:53
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
>
>
>Can anyone give me an example of how to align numbers in a table column by
>the decimal point?
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


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From william at manuel.as  Mon Aug 27 21:44:50 2001
From: william at manuel.as (liam)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:44:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
In-Reply-To: <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org>
 <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
 <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
 <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>
Message-ID: <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>

been seeing more table-less layouts lately using CSS. is it a lot
more practical to use css instead of tables nowadays? what are the pros and
cons of using each?

tia,
liam





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 21:53:17 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:53:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
In-Reply-To: <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
References: <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>
Message-ID: <3B8ACC5C.14960.2DCC75AE@localhost>

> From: liam <william at manuel.as>
>
> been seeing more table-less layouts lately using CSS. is it a lot more
> practical to use css instead of tables nowadays? what are the pros and
> cons of using each?

ultimately your audience should determine that for you... if you 
have a lot of users on browsers that can't handle the CSS layout 
(and you need to determine what a lot is), then it's probably not a 
good idea...

given the lack of consistent support out there for CSS-only layouts 
by most of my clients' users, and the fact that most of my clients 
want all users to have the same experience, regardless of 
browser/connection/month, it isn't seeing much implementation 
over here...

you can read some alternate opinions and threads at the ALA site, 
or over at the evolt site...

To Hell With Bad Browsers
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/tohell/

To Hell With Bad Editors
http://evolt.org/article/list/25/6096/




From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Aug 27 21:54:42 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:54:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Decimal align
Message-ID: <01c12f6c$3d683ee0$b24b149a@rudy>

> The new alignment attributes in HTML 4.0 say that you can use
> align="char" to align numbers on their decimal points.

hi bob

well, i wouldn't call html 4 exactly "new"  ;o)

> I guess I'm not understanding how it should be used.

here's the w3c's example

    <TABLE border="1">
    <COLGROUP>
    <COL><COL align="char" char=".">
    <THEAD>
    <TR><TH>Vegetable <TH>Cost per kilo
    <TBODY>
    <TR><TD>Lettuce        <TD>$1
    <TR><TD>Silver carrots <TD>$10.50
    <TR><TD>Golden turnips <TD>$100.30
    </TABLE>

        http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#alignment

note that the char="." is supposed to be the default (assuming the browser
supports character alignment)

the nice part about the above example (if you can hold your nose to the
stink of upper case unclosed tags) is that the alignment is applied to the
column

otherwise it would end up being applied to each cell (yuck)


mark, have you really done it with css?  cool

i wonder if the class can be applied to the COL tag....


rudy





From rick at techno-weenie.com  Mon Aug 27 21:56:15 2001
From: rick at techno-weenie.com (rick)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:56:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael> <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org> <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
Message-ID: <007c01c12f6c$4f9a4bd0$67a6aace@spacemonkey>

Using just CSS instead of tables for the layout helps seperate the content
from the presentation.  So, you can take the basic structure of the HTML
page, apply a new stylesheet, and it can look totally different.

CSS does have its limitations though, which is why I went back to a table
layout on my own site (though it's very simplified).  I believe in CSS3
there's work on a column system or something, so hopefully by the year 2050
we can get rid of tables altogether.

Tables are still good for structuring data like they were intended, but it's
the use of them as a layout I'd want to avoid.

rick

----- Original Message -----
From: "liam" <william at manuel.as>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?


> been seeing more table-less layouts lately using CSS. is it a lot
> more practical to use css instead of tables nowadays? what are the pros
and
> cons of using each?
>
> tia,
> liam
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From framar at interlog.com  Mon Aug 27 21:59:41 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Aug 27 21:59:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript formatter
In-Reply-To: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
References: <006d01c12f32$2be20eb0$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
Message-ID: <p05001903b7b0b85461b8@[24.43.66.191]>

>  I'm having to debug a 50k JavaScript hairball the is all
>  on one line. The guy who wrote the code quit under bad
>  terms so I have no idea if he has a nicely formatted
>  version somewhere.

If you are a Mac user, and use BBEdit, there's a freeware plug-in 
called 'C-indent'. I've used it for the same purpose a number of 
times. Alternately, you can send me a copy of the script, I can run 
it though and fire it back.
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com



From framar at interlog.com  Mon Aug 27 22:22:15 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Aug 27 22:22:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
In-Reply-To: <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org>
 <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
 <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
 <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>
 <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
Message-ID: <p05001904b7b0bc384bca@[24.43.66.191]>

>  been seeing more table-less layouts lately using CSS. is
>  it a lot more practical to use css instead of tables
>  nowadays? what are the pros and cons of using each?

I've just converted my own site to CSS2, and quite frankly, I'm very 
happy with it. Mind you my target audience does NOT include anyone 
with less than 4.0 browser. On thing that is nice though, is that the 
site renders almost identically on Netscape & IE 4-6. It even looks 
great in Lynx and ICab (which has yet to implement style sheet 
support.

I would say that if your layout is simple (as mine is) CSS2 is a good 
way to go.

Pro:
Greatly reduced file size
Simplification of HTML
Much easier to maintain.
Every browser (from 4.0) and up can read the data.
Degrades quite nicely.

Con:
Not quite ready for heavy-duty layouts.
A user style sheet can play havoc with it.
Not yet established as viable in the minds of many.
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Aug 27 22:45:23 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Aug 27 22:45:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] posting to xml
In-Reply-To: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF370459B7@typhoon.RealMetros.
 RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010827204109.02a8e140@baratta.com>

Have you read this??

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q290/5/91.ASP
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From karen at miinx.com.au  Mon Aug 27 23:35:39 2001
From: karen at miinx.com.au (Karen Bowen)
Date: Mon Aug 27 23:35:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
In-Reply-To: <000801c12f10$eb691840$4e14fea9@juan>
Message-ID: <000301c12f7a$4e493260$7fd8223f@EPS>

Hi Juan,

Love your site - your designs are heavenly.

I can see the animation, have looked in both IE 5.0 and NN 4.75 and you're
right, the center animated gif is not working in Netscape.  Not sure why
though - have had a little look at the code but it's long,
DreamWeaver-generated long, so won't go further.

Not having worked with the timeline before, I'm not sure if this is
feasible, but maybe for Netscape you could add another onclick event to each
moving icon, such that when it is clicked on, another small layer opens for
the ani-gif.  (Or maybe you've already done that?!)

Sorry I'm not more help. Good luck with it.

Karen
---------------
www.miinx.com.au
www.monkey.com.au
www.d-genre.com



-----Original Message-----

URL:

http://www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html





From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Aug 28 00:34:26 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Aug 28 00:34:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael> <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org> <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
Message-ID: <00d201c12f82$90dc5fa0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

Tables are supported in Graphic browsers back to v.3.

CSS has no support in V3
(unless you consider Blink or Marquee tags as enhancements)
Limited CSS 1 support in V4(mostly proprietary Layer/Div)
Better but incomplete support in V5
Alleged CSS 1 complete support in V6

Practical? No and  Yes.
 From the viewpoint of looking for the largest possible audience, no. The
majority of browsers have limited support which limits your use of CSS for
separating the content from the candy. Simple tables will allow you to keep
some semblance of order to your work.

 From a design and maintenance standpoint, yes. Earlier browsers will ignore
things they don't understand. Stylesheets can give you an enormous range of
options for display of the textual content of your sites. Yes you can use it
to push around images as well.

Change one file and create a new site.

CSS should be embraced at the earliest opportunity by everyone who wrestles
pixels for a living. It should be experimented with to the limit of your
ability and stable of browsers.

CSS will become increasingly more important for the next couple of years as
an important part of the designers toolbox. All of the strategies for
conserving bandwidth, from simple coding, optimizing image sizes, addressing
accessibility concerns and file sizes will need to be kept at the forefront
of your design efforts. CSS currently will only take you so far.

My feeling for this is based on two events that are impacting everyone who
works in this electronic media. Microsoft's decision not to include the JVM
or Java Virtual Machine and not supporting Netscape style plugins, such as
QuickTime, in the V6 browser. This decision will break every site using Java
applets for display. There is already a workaround for the QuickTime plugin.

You will still be able to use the <embed> tag to present these content
types.

The other event is the rapid shakeout of High Bandwidth providers. DSL,
Cable, and other post-modem connection providers. Broadband as a concept is
very nice. The reality is extremely ugly. Broadband companies are failing as
fast as the new media companies did last year.

This impacts your decisions as a developer. CSS enables you a larger range
of display options without relying on proprietary technologies and a descent
into the dark ages of "Best Viewed With" or worse "Only Viewed With".

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com












From zamba at zamba.com  Tue Aug 28 00:40:21 2001
From: zamba at zamba.com (Tony Page)
Date: Tue Aug 28 00:40:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
Message-ID: <CCEIKJNFOKKACLEKFINMGEDIDOAA.zamba@zamba.com>

To my horror I have been informed that the "view large" new window launched
from our photographers portfolio pages does not launch on Mac NS 4.61. Could
any Mac guys using NS of any vintage check this for me, and if it's true I'd
be interested in any solutions anyone could offer! Here's an eg URL:
http://www.acmp.com.au/portfolios/bruzzone/imagepages/image7.htm

Thanks,

Tony
      [ZambaGrafix]
   <websites that work>
tel: +61 2 9953 4425
fax: +61 2 9909 8534
email: ajp at zambagrafix.com
http://www.zambagrafix.com




From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 00:44:59 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 00:44:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac Folders Background image...
Message-ID: <200108280544.f7S5iwk16745@leo.evolt.org>

Ok, all those nifty little Mac folders that have background's in them..does
any one out there know how to do that?  I know it must be utterly simple,
but I am in late triple shot mocha stupid phase right now and need to
know....

--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com



From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 00:52:13 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 00:52:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
Message-ID: <200108280552.f7S5qCk17701@leo.evolt.org>

It no work-ey for me either.  

I know that you may have to accommodate for older browsers here, but you
might try "onClick" rather than "OnMouseDown" as your event handler.  I have
found that as a viable solution with "Net-Scrape" in the past.

Good luck!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Tony Page" <zamba at zamba.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 11:04 PM
>

> To my horror I have been informed that the "view large" new window launched
> from our photographers portfolio pages does not launch on Mac NS 4.61. Could
> any Mac guys using NS of any vintage check this for me, and if it's true I'd
> be interested in any solutions anyone could offer! Here's an eg URL:
> http://www.acmp.com.au/portfolios/bruzzone/imagepages/image7.htm
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tony
>       [ZambaGrafix]
>    <websites that work>
> tel: +61 2 9953 4425
> fax: +61 2 9909 8534
> email: ajp at zambagrafix.com
> http://www.zambagrafix.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 01:34:09 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 28 01:34:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
In-Reply-To: <CCEIKJNFOKKACLEKFINMGEDIDOAA.zamba@zamba.com>
References: <CCEIKJNFOKKACLEKFINMGEDIDOAA.zamba@zamba.com>
Message-ID: <p05001906b7b0eae04341@[24.43.66.191]>

>  To my horror I have been informed that the "view large"
>  new window launched from our photographers portfolio
>  pages does not launch on Mac NS 4.61. Could any Mac guys
>  using NS of any vintage check this for me, and if it's
>  true I'd be interested in any solutions anyone could
>  offer! Here's an eg URL:

4.7 works fine for me.
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 01:51:48 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 28 01:51:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac Folders Background image...
In-Reply-To: <200108280544.f7S5iwk16745@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200108280544.f7S5iwk16745@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05001907b7b0eb0f4e76@[24.43.66.191]>

>  Ok, all those nifty little Mac folders that have
>  background's in them..does any one out there know how to
>  do that? I know it must be utterly simple, but I am in
>  late triple shot mocha stupid phase right now and need
>  to know....

If you are talking about textures in the folders that you use 
everyday, I would point you to either

http://www.kaleidoscope.net or
http://www.tigertech.com/

If you are talking about placing an image in the window to burn to a CD, try

http://studwww.rug.ac.be/~tdgroote/p2i/products.html

-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From cspruck at mindspring.com  Tue Aug 28 01:51:54 2001
From: cspruck at mindspring.com (Chris Spruck)
Date: Tue Aug 28 01:51:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac Folders Background image...
In-Reply-To: <200108280544.f7S5iwk16745@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010828023619.00c5c9d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Eric,

There are a few ways to do what you're describing, so check out these 
shareware apps and see what you think.

Iconizer Pro 1.5.2 - build a group of icons from a picture to make folder 
backgrounds
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=2079&db=mac

Window Monkey 1.3.1 - choose background patterns for the Finder windows
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=4925&db=mac

HTH!

Chris

At 10:41 PM 8/27/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok, all those nifty little Mac folders that have background's in them..does
>any one out there know how to do that?




From zamba at zamba.com  Tue Aug 28 01:57:51 2001
From: zamba at zamba.com (Tony Page)
Date: Tue Aug 28 01:57:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
In-Reply-To: <200108280552.f7S5qCk17701@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <CCEIKJNFOKKACLEKFINMMEDKDOAA.zamba@zamba.com>

Thanks, Eric, I've just tried this and it works OK on a Mac running NS 4.5,
so as Frank's 4.7 works OK with the current setup it must be just the older
browsers. As a matter of interest, does anyone who is up on this know why
this should be so?
Anyway, thank god for search and replace...

Tony

PS anyone know a more elegant way to do this?

      [ZambaGrafix]
   <websites that work>
tel: +61 2 9953 4425
fax: +61 2 9909 8534
email: ajp at zambagrafix.com
http://www.zambagrafix.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Eric Langlitz
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:49 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window
> launch
>
>
> It no work-ey for me either.
>
> I know that you may have to accommodate for older browsers here, but you
> might try "onClick" rather than "OnMouseDown" as your event
> handler.  I have
> found that as a viable solution with "Net-Scrape" in the past.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> --
> Eric Langlitz
> Principal
> Chicken3
> 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> Vancouver, WA 98661
> 360.906.7195
> feed at chicken3.com
><snip>




From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 02:15:12 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 02:15:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
Message-ID: <200108280715.f7S7FBk23263@leo.evolt.org>

You're welcome, Tony, glad I could help!  

A more elegant way that in the future will save you TONS of time, is to
employ your script as a relative linked file, like the following example:

<script language="JavaScript" src="popwindow.js">
</script>

popwindow.js is the script that holds the function.

This is a file that would reside on your server with all your other html
pages.  You do not need any html on this page, only the Script itself.  You
must however add the ".js" extension to the file.  Then add the above code
in your between your <head></head> tags on each page you want to employ your
function, and leave your event handlers as they are.

This is neat because now, when there is a problem with the script, you only
have to fix it once - of course in your case the issue was with event
handlers, so this whole thing I just wrote maybe doesn't even apply to
anything, but hey, maybe it will help someone out there, eh?

You could of course build the page with the pictures in ASP, PHP, Cold
Fusion or your favorite language, pass variables to the page for each new
picture, and have this whole thing solved with ONE page of HTML/Backend
language...but now I'm rambling...


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Tony Page" <zamba at zamba.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window launch
>Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 12:21 AM
>

> Thanks, Eric, I've just tried this and it works OK on a Mac running NS 4.5,
> so as Frank's 4.7 works OK with the current setup it must be just the older
> browsers. As a matter of interest, does anyone who is up on this know why
> this should be so?
> Anyway, thank god for search and replace...
>
> Tony
>
> PS anyone know a more elegant way to do this?
>
>       [ZambaGrafix]
>    <websites that work>
> tel: +61 2 9953 4425
> fax: +61 2 9909 8534
> email: ajp at zambagrafix.com
> http://www.zambagrafix.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Eric Langlitz
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:49 PM
>> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>> Subject: Re: [thelist] Apparent problem with NS on Mac: new window
>> launch
>>
>>
>> It no work-ey for me either.
>>
>> I know that you may have to accommodate for older browsers here, but you
>> might try "onClick" rather than "OnMouseDown" as your event
>> handler.  I have
>> found that as a viable solution with "Net-Scrape" in the past.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Eric Langlitz
>> Principal
>> Chicken3
>> 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
>> Vancouver, WA 98661
>> 360.906.7195
>> feed at chicken3.com
>><snip>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 02:35:15 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 02:35:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac Folders Background image...
Message-ID: <200108280735.f7S7ZEk24387@leo.evolt.org>

Thanks to all for the help!  Iconizer is what I am looking for...

Gracias!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Chris Spruck <cspruck at mindspring.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Mac Folders Background image...
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 11:46 PM
>

> Eric,
>
> There are a few ways to do what you're describing, so check out these
> shareware apps and see what you think.
>
> Iconizer Pro 1.5.2 - build a group of icons from a picture to make folder
> backgrounds
> http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=2079&db=mac
>
> Window Monkey 1.3.1 - choose background patterns for the Finder windows
> http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=4925&db=mac
>
> HTH!
>
> Chris
>
> At 10:41 PM 8/27/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>Ok, all those nifty little Mac folders that have background's in them..does
>>any one out there know how to do that?
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From chris at chrisg.com  Tue Aug 28 03:16:29 2001
From: chris at chrisg.com (Chris Garrett)
Date: Tue Aug 28 03:16:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] posting to xml
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF370459B7@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <011701c12f9a$aa9f9a20$31fe530a@chrisdesktop>

If you are using ASP there is an article here that might help ..

http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/default.asp?article=54


-- 

                 Me: http://chrisg.com
  ASP/.NET Articles: http://www.realworldasp.net/
ASP/.NET Newsletter: http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/subscribe.asp


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tab Alleman" <Tab.Alleman at RealMetros.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: [thelist] posting to xml


> Here's the steps of what I'm trying to do (easiest to describe this
> way):
> 
> 1.  I POST a form with lots of hidden fields to another company's script
> (can't use a GET.. it would be too long)
> 2.  The other company returns an xml page which I need to stuff into a
> DOMDocument or xml Island
> 
> I'm currently using MSXML 3.0...  if I use the xmlhttp object, I can set
> the method to POST, but how do I send along the hidden <input>'s?  Is
> there another way?  
> 
> Once again, using GET isn't an option, and just displaying the XML
> return with XSL isn't an option.
> 
> Thanks for any ideas!
> 
> Tab
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From nick at triplezero.com.au  Tue Aug 28 03:27:21 2001
From: nick at triplezero.com.au (Nick Boyce)
Date: Tue Aug 28 03:27:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] ActionScript: Finding out a clip's name
In-Reply-To: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIKEIIDAAA.isaac@triplezero.com.au>
Message-ID: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBOEHGCGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>

Erik,

Thanks again for your help.

:: > You don't have to set it, just use the property _name.

Yes, this is the sort of thing I have been looking for. _name and _target
are going to be very useful for me.

The following script was very helpful, but I have some questions.

:: > on (press) {
:: >    this.swapDepths(_parent.current_level);
:: > }

If I have a lot of duplicated movie clips, all with different layers, how do
I find out which one is on top in order to do a swapdepth with is? They all
have a variable current_level set which is showing in a field so that I know
it is working, but it will still now swap depths as required.

The duplicating script:

for (i=1; i<20; i++) {
	var mc;
	duplicateMovieClip (clip, "clip"+i, i);
	mc = _root["clip"+i];
	mc._x = random(300);
	mc._y = random(500);
	mc.linkdesc = _root["linkdesc_"+i];
	mc.linkname = _root["linkname_"+i];
	mc.current_level = i;
	mc.memberusername = _root["memberusername_"+i];
}
stop ();

The drag script:

on (press) {
	{
		this.swapDepths(parent._level15);
		startDrag("");
	}
}
on (release) {
	stopDrag ();
}


Ideas?

Nick

----------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital  |  upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08) 8332 0545 | www.triplezero.com.au | nick at triplezero.com.au





From nsg_chong at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 03:37:18 2001
From: nsg_chong at hotmail.com (jelle desramaults)
Date: Tue Aug 28 03:37:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] blue screen ... (site check)
Message-ID: <OE23BKTDYL05CfGHM2A0000bf61@hotmail.com>

to all the daredevils out there ...

I really need some help with this one, i made a site for a client using
Adobe Golive.
He runs IE 5.0 on a rather old window 95 box.

The site has a litlle splash screen, where one can choose "NEDERLANDS" to
enter. When my client clicks ... the blue screen.
Any of you feel like testing wether or not you witness the big blue ? I
really need to prove to him that his problem is just local and collect me
some cash.


, thnx ... jelle



From nick at triplezero.com.au  Tue Aug 28 03:47:27 2001
From: nick at triplezero.com.au (Nick Boyce)
Date: Tue Aug 28 03:47:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] ActionScript: Finding out a clip's nameFinding out a clip's name
Message-ID: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBAEHICGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>

Sorry, I forgot to post the address of the movie I am talking about:

http://anarchitect.net/new/anarchitect_test_4.swf

Nick

----------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital  |  upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08) 8332 0545 | www.triplezero.com.au | nick at triplezero.com.au



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Tue Aug 28 03:50:35 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 03:50:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] blue screen ... (site check)
Message-ID: <OFA2386A86.8FF7679C-ON80256AB6.002FE16F@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Jelle

What's the URL?

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] blue screen ... (site check)


to all the daredevils out there ...

I really need some help with this one, i made a site for a client using
Adobe Golive.
He runs IE 5.0 on a rather old window 95 box.

The site has a litlle splash screen, where one can choose "NEDERLANDS" to
enter. When my client clicks ... the blue screen.
Any of you feel like testing wether or not you witness the big blue ? I
really need to prove to him that his problem is just local and collect me
some cash.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From dante at vianet.net.au  Tue Aug 28 05:01:43 2001
From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante)
Date: Tue Aug 28 05:01:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML Form to XML Document on Apache
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNOEHOEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au> <002101c12ec2$d3cf5d00$fd01a8c0@dante>
Message-ID: <011a01c12fa8$0cbe64e0$fd01a8c0@dante>

G'Day All,

I've been experimenting with using a HTML form as part of a (very) basic XML
content management system & I'm stuck :)
I need it to run on Apache so the solutions that I've found using ASP aren't
applicable.
Ideally, what I need is a solution using Perl/CGI that can:

- Upload an image to a specific folder on the server the server & store the
  file's name (eg: "mycat.gif").
- Convert the HTML form output to populate the XML template below
  then append it to an XML document on the server - within the
  <library> elements - including the stored image file's name (
<image_link> ).

Is this possible?
Has anyone encountered anything similar to this?
Is there a better method (PHP perhaps)?
Is it possible to use javascript for a client-side solution?

The form is online here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~dante/xml/input_form.html
[*IE5+ only]

The XML template:
----------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<library>
    <!--    -->
    <book type="" style="" variant="" id="">
        <title></title>
        <sub_title></sub_title>
        <author first_name="" middle_name="" last_name=""></author>
        <illustrator first_name="" middle_name=""
last_name=""></illustrator>
        <image_link></image_link>
        <description></description>
        <subject></subject>
        <isbn></isbn>
        <genre></genre>
        <publisher></publisher>
        <issue></issue>
        <date day="" month="" year="" />
    </book>
</library>
----------------------------------------------------------
*Any* comments are appreciated  : )~

Thanks,
            dante
            Perth, Western Australia
            dante at vianet.net.au
            www.vianet.net.au/~dante




From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 05:47:52 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 05:47:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
Message-ID: <200108271630.f7RGUOk24734@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Juan. I didn't see any problems either.  You might check to see if you 
have the Netscape re-size fix script on the page.  You also might consider
using Flash to do this rather than DHTML.  You will most likely get a
smaller download, better animation, and the chance that Flash will work on
all browsers is better than DHTML.  Just a thought...


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Juan Manuel Lucero" <jmlucero at webicarus.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] DHTML animation
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 6:56 AM
>

> Hi! I just did an animation using Dreamweaver timeline...Everything seemed
> to work ok...till? I checked the page with Netscape 4.75....
>
> Do you know if there?s anything I can do to fix this....?
>
> Too see the "real" animation, check the page with iexplorer , to see (my
> mistake?) check it with Netscape (4.77 and <)
>
> URL:
>
> http://www.webicarus.com/portfolio/portfolio.html
>
> Thanks.
>
> Juan Manuel.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 




From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Tue Aug 28 05:48:43 2001
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Tue Aug 28 05:48:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AAE8@SBS>

Hi folks,

can anyone suggest a good, reliable and hopefully easily maintained virus
scanner for Exchange Server? We're using Exchange 5.1 on NT4 Small Business
Server with about 10 clients. Anything that can help stop virii before they
reach our users would be useful.

Thanks for any tips.

.steve


------------------------------------------
Steve Cook
web strategist
Evitbe AB
031-15 16 17   031-890 365   0703-13 26 31
steve.cook at evitbe.com       www.evitbe.com
------------------------------------------




From rgoviatt at nbnet.nb.ca  Tue Aug 28 08:43:59 2001
From: rgoviatt at nbnet.nb.ca (Rob Oviatt)
Date: Tue Aug 28 08:43:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
In-Reply-To: <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828105342.00a012f0@smtp.nbnet.nb.ca>

Michael:

Not sure where your going with this, but...

Your stylesheet is loaded into the client's cache when called by the <link> 
tag, and the styles defined by it are used as needed.  If your using a 
large stylesheet and want to cut down on the load time of search 
results.  Use the same stylesheet for your search page.  That way it is 
downloaded to the viewer's machine before the search results, and does not 
need to be downloaded again, for the viewer's system will have cached it.

Rob Oviatt


At 04:13 PM 8/27/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe someone can help me with this...I am trying to find out exactly how a
>stylesheet is referenced by the browser when using the <link
>rel="stylesheet" etc..> within the HTML document.  Does the browser actually
>downloads the stylesheet or does the browser just "query" the stylesheet for
>each and every HTML tag?
>
>The reason I am trying to find out is that we have a client who has a
>quoting system that we built using PHP and mySQL.  With reps from all over
>the world using this thing, the quote records are numerous.  When a user
>decides to view all records, it takes a bit of time due to the number of
>records on the database.  So we are looking to optimize the page as much as
>possible.  We have already clean up our PHP code and streamlined the
>database.  Now it is just a matter of tweakin the HTML portion if at all
>possible.
>
>I know we are only going to get so much improvement but I am also very
>curious on how a browser reacts to the <link rel="stylesheet" etc> question.
>
>Thanks for any info
>
>Michael
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Tab.Alleman at RealMetros.com  Tue Aug 28 08:46:00 2001
From: Tab.Alleman at RealMetros.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Tue Aug 28 08:46:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] posting to xml
Message-ID: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Anthony and Chris,

You are my Saviours.  Twin messiahs.  

My deepest gratitude...   

Tab



From michele at inthree.com  Tue Aug 28 09:04:36 2001
From: michele at inthree.com (Michele Wandrei)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:04:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for reseller package
References: <200108252136.AA806290068@nparrot.com>
Message-ID: <009c01c12fc8$c57c31e0$3f682418@roylok1.mi.home.com>

Nicole,

You might want to check out TVCNet www.tvcnet.com.  I made the rounds
of hosting companies and I've been very happy with them.  Their basic
Unix account comes with 200 Mb of space, but their prices for expanded
space are very reasonable.

TVCNet only works with resellers and they don't post their prices on
the web.  You have to request prices (your clients never have access
to that info).  Overall, their service has been great and the servers
are fast and reliable (my biggest complaint with my former hosts).

Hope this helps,
Michele
___________________________________________________
Michele Wandrei
inThree Design
www.inthree.com







From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 09:11:45 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:11:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi all

This is possibly me being a bit thick, but I'm rather stupmed atm.  I've
installed the .net framework sdk on a win2k pro machine at home.  As part of
the install it's setup MSDE, with a number of sample databases.  Now my
friend recently won a copy of Professional ASP.Net which he gave to me.
I've started working my way through it but it requres an additional sample
DB to be added to the server.  However it only includes instructions on
adding it through SQL Server Enterprise Manager, and for the life of me I
can't find this mentioned in the MSDE documentation anywhere.  Do I need to
install this onto one of my home machines, and then use it to connect to the
MSDE server, and then follow the instructions. Or am I doomed to simply not
have the sample database available to me?  Or am I missing something really
basic out (my brains are rather fried atm after spending Saturday at the
Oval).  I've attached the instructions at the end of this email.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out

Norman

Instructions for setting up the IBuyAdventure database in SQL Server
====================================================================

- Open up SQL Server Enterprise Manager.
- Right-click on the Databases folder in the left-hand pane.
- Select "New Database".
- Name it "IBuyAdventure".
- Click "OK".
- Right-click on your new IBuyAdventure database, go down to
"All Tasks" and then select "Restore Database".
- Select "From device" in the Restore dialogue.
- Click "Select Devices", then "Add", and browse to your copy of
IBuyAdventureBackup.
- OK back to the Restore database window, then select the "Options" tab.
- Select "Force restore over existing database".
- Select OK

Your database is now ready to go once you have restarted the server.




From jmclark at multiservice.com  Tue Aug 28 09:16:06 2001
From: jmclark at multiservice.com (Jeana Clark)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:16:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
Message-ID: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com>

So.. I've heard ie6 is finally released, final version:
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.htm

But, in the past, whenever I add/upgrade to a new IE version, it gets rid of
the old one.  Is it possible to install IE6 somehow on the same harddrive
WITHOUT it removing the older version of 5.5?

Thought I'd ask before I attempted it.

Thanks,
-jeana





From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 09:23:36 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:23:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg>
Message-ID: <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Norman,

Until someone speaks up that actually knows the answer, have you tried
simply copying the db to the HD, then set up an ODBC datasource to it that
uses the MSDE drivers?  The instructions you have are not really pertinent
because MSDE is *not* MSSQL.  The MSDE is more powerful than Access, and
uses the syntax of MSSQL, but it *not* MSSQL and is therefore missing the
cool features of it, like the Enterprise Manager.  But, again, you may be
able to just set it up as an ODBC datasource.

HTH,

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Beresford" <n.beresford at anansi.co.uk>
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management


: Hi all
:
: This is possibly me being a bit thick, but I'm rather stupmed atm.  I've
: installed the .net framework sdk on a win2k pro machine at home.  As part
of
: the install it's setup MSDE, with a number of sample databases.  Now my
: friend recently won a copy of Professional ASP.Net which he gave to me.
: I've started working my way through it but it requres an additional sample
: DB to be added to the server.  However it only includes instructions on
: adding it through SQL Server Enterprise Manager, and for the life of me I
: can't find this mentioned in the MSDE documentation anywhere.
:
: Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out
:
: Norman




From mpember at phreaker.net  Tue Aug 28 09:28:49 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:28:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
References: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com>
Message-ID: <3B8BA9A1.2342E582@phreaker.net>

In keeping with the M$ theory that they make perfect software with no
backward compatability problems, there will never be a need to use an
"out-of-date" software package.

As such, there is no simple method of keeping an old version of IE at
the same time as upgrading.

The best method I can suggest is the use of VMWare.  It allows for your
to configure as many "virtual PCs" as you need.  It is great for testing
on various Windows / IE setups without having a room of PCs.

Jeana Clark wrote:
> 
> So.. I've heard ie6 is finally released, final version:
>  http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.htm
> 
> But, in the past, whenever I add/upgrade to a new IE version, it gets rid of
> the old one.  Is it possible to install IE6 somehow on the same harddrive
> WITHOUT it removing the older version of 5.5?
> 
> Thought I'd ask before I attempted it.
> 
> Thanks,
> -jeana
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Tue Aug 28 09:30:57 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:30:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
In-Reply-To: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828102414.00a69610@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 09:11 AM 8/28/01 -0500, Jeana Clark bequeathed such 
tales as these:
>So.. I've heard ie6 is finally released, final version:
>  http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.htm
>
>But, in the past, whenever I add/upgrade to a new IE version, it gets rid of
>the old one.  Is it possible to install IE6 somehow on the same harddrive
>WITHOUT it removing the older version of 5.5?
>
>Thought I'd ask before I attempted it.
>
>Thanks,
>-jeana

Not likely, I haven't tried it myself yet either, but since the browser and 
the OS are one I don't think it will be any different this time round 
either, unfortunately.  The alternative as always is multi boot scenarios 
or VMWare.
Peter Kaulback




From rklegman at mediaone.net  Tue Aug 28 09:32:04 2001
From: rklegman at mediaone.net (Ron Klegman)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:32:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5 - issues?
In-Reply-To: <3B8BA9A1.2342E582@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBKDHNAKILPHDKFHBKMEFLFEAA.rklegman@mediaone.net>

Has anyone tried the "new final version" yet? any issues?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Pemberton
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:25 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
> 
> 
> In keeping with the M$ theory that they make perfect software with no
> backward compatability problems, there will never be a need to use an
> "out-of-date" software package.
> 
> As such, there is no simple method of keeping an old version of IE at
> the same time as upgrading.
> 
> The best method I can suggest is the use of VMWare.  It allows for your
> to configure as many "virtual PCs" as you need.  It is great for testing
> on various Windows / IE setups without having a room of PCs.
> 
> Jeana Clark wrote:
> > 
> > So.. I've heard ie6 is finally released, final version:
> >  http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.htm
> > 
> > But, in the past, whenever I add/upgrade to a new IE version, 
> it gets rid of
> > the old one.  Is it possible to install IE6 somehow on the same 
> harddrive
> > WITHOUT it removing the older version of 5.5?
> > 
> > Thought I'd ask before I attempted it.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > -jeana
> 



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue Aug 28 09:33:22 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:33:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
In-Reply-To: <3B8BA9A1.2342E582@phreaker.net>
References: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010828092532.00b013a0@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 09:24 AM 8/28/2001, you wrote:
>The best method I can suggest is the use of VMWare.  It allows for your
>to configure as many "virtual PCs" as you need.  It is great for testing
>on various Windows / IE setups without having a room of PCs.

Or...heh...you can use "VirtualPC" from Connectix to do the same thing.

http://www.connectix.com/

A great way to run many multiple browsers...even at the same time (you're 
only really limited by your memory and hard drive space).

Available for Windows 2000 or Mac OS.

--Ben


<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From mpember at phreaker.net  Tue Aug 28 09:40:48 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:40:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
References: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010828092532.00b013a0@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <3B8BACA2.A2ADC2CF@phreaker.net>

I played with one of the beta versions and found it too unstable.  has
it got any closer to release quality?

Ben Dyer wrote:
> 
> At 09:24 AM 8/28/2001, you wrote:
> >The best method I can suggest is the use of VMWare.  It allows for your
> >to configure as many "virtual PCs" as you need.  It is great for testing
> >on various Windows / IE setups without having a room of PCs.
> 
> Or...heh...you can use "VirtualPC" from Connectix to do the same thing.
> 
> http://www.connectix.com/
> 
> A great way to run many multiple browsers...even at the same time (you're
> only really limited by your memory and hard drive space).
> 
> Available for Windows 2000 or Mac OS.
> 
> --Ben
> 
> <!-----------------------
> Ben Dyer
> Senior Internet Developer
> Imaginuity Interactive
> http://www.imaginuity.com
> //---------------------->
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From mel at kingsley.co.za  Tue Aug 28 09:44:22 2001
From: mel at kingsley.co.za (Melody Kerchhoff)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:44:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?
In-Reply-To: <20010826181332.16B8A969@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NABBLBPNAAGIMPDMBOFJGEBHEEAA.mel@kingsley.co.za>

Hello Listlings,

I have to admit up front that I have not done a Google or an Evolt search ..
sorry. Having got that out of the way, my problem is as follows:

I have a client who has 4 video cameras attached to his house taking
pictures of the view and the sea etc. He would like these cameras to feed a
still picture to his web site maybe every couple of hours or once a day ..
basically it doesn't have to be live streaming video. I believe there is a
computer in the house, but it is not linked to the internet.

So ... what I want to know is ... what questions should I be asking? Does it
make a difference what cameras they are? Will they be sending pics to this
PC in the house do you think? Could I write some kind of script to get the
PC to dial up once or twice a day automatically to FTP files which I will
just display on the web site. I just haven't got a clue. Keeping the PC
online all day is not an option as the telephone costs are prohibitive.
Getting someone to do it is also not an option as the house is unoccupied a
lot of the time.

To make matters worse, the client is in Germany and I and the house with the
cameras are in South Africa so I have not had a chance to speak to him
directly. We have had some email contact, but he is not technically savvy
and doesn't know too much about the cameras and stuff, except that they need
to be on the web.

I have not yet been to the house either as he wants some kind of an idea of
a quote. At this point I am about to say I can't do it and recommend someone
else, but I would like to do it as I have not ever worked with web cams
before ... obviously :)

Thanks so much in advance. I know if anyone can help me, you guys can. I
love this list and have gained so much knowledge by lurking. Thank you all
for sharing and for taking the time to supply such detailed answers.

Regards,
Melody




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue Aug 28 09:46:40 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:46:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5
In-Reply-To: <3B8BACA2.A2ADC2CF@phreaker.net>
References: <000e01c12fcb$46254a00$b2341eac@multiservice.com>
 <5.0.2.1.0.20010828092532.00b013a0@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010828093816.024800e8@mail.imaginuity.com>

Actually, that's news to me.

I played with both the public beta and the real version and found it to be 
very stable, but, then again, I was using it primarily to check sites in 
different browsers.  However, I never had any problems with it.

Some of the earlier builds might have been a little funkier.  I only played 
with the second preview release.

--Ben

At 09:37 AM 8/28/2001, you wrote:
>I played with one of the beta versions and found it too unstable.  has
>it got any closer to release quality?

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug 28 09:51:06 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:51:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install ie6 w/out removing ie5.5 - issues?
References: <NDBBKDHNAKILPHDKFHBKMEFLFEAA.rklegman@mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B8BAF1E.5050008@yahoo.ca>

Ron Klegman wrote:
> Has anyone tried the "new final version" yet? any issues?

I've been using the beta for a while, and downloaded the final version 
last night. Seems slightly faster than the beta.

It's a good browser with excellent CSS and DOM support. No matter your 
feelings for MS, its worth getting, and pushing others to get (along 
with Mozilla/Nescape 6.1 and Opera) if only to increase the audience for 
truly standards-compliant sites.

BTW, you can do a custom install, though its hidden as part of the 
Minimal Install feature.
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 09:52:30 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:52:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41>

Correct me if I'm wrong - but MSDE *is* essentially a runtime MSSQL without
any of the management facilities or utilities (Enterprise Manager, iSQL,
iSQL/W etc.)

IIRC, you can install the SQL Server Developer Edition on the machine you
are running MSDE on, and you'll gain Enterprise Manager without losing any
data within MSDE.

Ed Courtenay
http://www.edcourtenay.co.uk

"We've all heard that a million monkeys on a million
keyboards would eventually come up with the entire
works of Shakespeare - thanks to the Internet, we now
know this isn't true...."


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] MSDE management


> Norman,
>
> Until someone speaks up that actually knows the answer, have you tried
> simply copying the db to the HD, then set up an ODBC datasource to it that
> uses the MSDE drivers?  The instructions you have are not really pertinent
> because MSDE is *not* MSSQL.  The MSDE is more powerful than Access, and
> uses the syntax of MSSQL, but it *not* MSSQL and is therefore missing the
> cool features of it, like the Enterprise Manager.  But, again, you may be
> able to just set it up as an ODBC datasource.
>
> HTH,
>
> -joshua
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Norman Beresford" <n.beresford at anansi.co.uk>
> Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
>
>
> : Hi all
> :
> : This is possibly me being a bit thick, but I'm rather stupmed atm.  I've
> : installed the .net framework sdk on a win2k pro machine at home.  As
part
> of
> : the install it's setup MSDE, with a number of sample databases.  Now my
> : friend recently won a copy of Professional ASP.Net which he gave to me.
> : I've started working my way through it but it requres an additional
sample
> : DB to be added to the server.  However it only includes instructions on
> : adding it through SQL Server Enterprise Manager, and for the life of me
I
> : can't find this mentioned in the MSDE documentation anywhere.
> :
> : Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out
> :
> : Norman
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Tue Aug 28 09:58:08 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:58:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?
In-Reply-To: <NABBLBPNAAGIMPDMBOFJGEBHEEAA.mel@kingsley.co.za>
Message-ID: <000801c12fd1$b6ec89f0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Melody,

I do exactly this, with the exception of the frequency.
I have a web cam attached to my system in my office that captures an image,
FTPs it to my web server, and makes it available on my web site, every 30
seconds, 24 hours a day.

There are several ways of doing this, the most important thing being
hardware:
Obviously the camera must have some interface to the computer.  There are
several software packages that'll then snap an image from the camera and ftp
it whereever you'd like; either to a local ftp server or a provider.

Most webcam software packages support a dial-up connection that'll call a
number, upload the image, and disconnect the modem (Im using WebCam32 from
Surveyor Software http://www.webcam32.com/).

If you do a Google search on webcam software you'll find an abundant source
of information on what's available.

You'll also need web space, and there are lots of sites that give space
especially for web cams (CollegeClub.com, Spotlife.com, etc...again, a
search will yield plenty of options).

Once you have an image capture system and a place to host that image, the
rest is just making sure you automate the FTPing of that image.
Hope this helps, and good luck; keep writing if you have any other questions
:)

--Salvatore

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Melody Kerchhoff
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:40 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?


Hello Listlings,

I have to admit up front that I have not done a Google or an Evolt search ..
sorry. Having got that out of the way, my problem is as follows:

Thanks so much in advance. I know if anyone can help me, you guys can. I
love this list and have gained so much knowledge by lurking. Thank you all
for sharing and for taking the time to supply such detailed answers.

Regards,
Melody

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Tue Aug 28 09:59:52 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (chris Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:59:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner
In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AAE8@SBS>
Message-ID: <000001c12fc0$f04f9c20$be82fea9@cr283847a>

Check out Norton AntiVirus Corporate edition. Not only can it plug into
Exchange and grab virus' before they get to the clients, it can also
plug into each of the computers connected to your server and keep them
free if virus'. (What is the proper plural form of virus?)

http://enterprisesecurity.symantec.com/products/products.cfm?ProductID=2
3&PID=7968685

(watch for the nasty wrap)

/chris

-----Original Message-----
Hi folks,

can anyone suggest a good, reliable and hopefully easily maintained
virus scanner for Exchange Server? We're using Exchange 5.1 on NT4 Small
Business Server with about 10 clients. Anything that can help stop virii
before they reach our users would be useful.

Thanks for any tips.

.steve





From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Tue Aug 28 09:59:53 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:59:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner
In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AAE8@SBS>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828101553.01deea30@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 12:29 PM 8/28/01 +0200, Steve Cook bequeathed such tales 
as these:
>Hi folks,
>
>can anyone suggest a good, reliable and hopefully easily maintained virus
>scanner for Exchange Server? We're using Exchange 5.1 on NT4 Small Business
>Server with about 10 clients. Anything that can help stop virii before they
>reach our users would be useful.

Trend Micro has Scan Mail http://www.antivirus.com/products/smex/ which 
I've seen run on a Notes server with little trouble.
Peter Kaulback





From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Tue Aug 28 09:59:59 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Tue Aug 28 09:59:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370EA553@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1D3A@ITG_B02>

InoculateIT from Computer Associates.  The latest version is very nice.
http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/ProductFamily.asp?ID=128
might cost you a couple of dollars, but is nicely featured with respect to
running the exchange server module, notification and real time monitoring of
mail and mailboxes.

Brian W. King



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Steve Cook
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:29 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner

Hi folks,

can anyone suggest a good, reliable and hopefully easily maintained virus
scanner for Exchange Server? We're using Exchange 5.1 on NT4 Small Business
Server with about 10 clients. Anything that can help stop virii before they
reach our users would be useful.

Thanks for any tips.

.steve








From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 10:00:04 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Tue Aug 28 10:00:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F70FC8F@BOOTROS>

Hi Steve,

AFAIK most of these type of products work under Exchange 5.5, so an upgrade
might be in order before you get going.

We use MAILsweeper here, which is great if you have a separate AV product
(e.g. Sophos) and the time to maintain it. It does do an excellent job of
grabbing dodgy mails though, and you can set it up to filter based on
content, attachments, virus signatures, whatever you fancy. It's a bit of a
pain to get set up but once it's running it works very well.

I had a quick word with the IT manager here who mumbled something about
Trend doing an all-in-one package that you might be interested in, but he
had to go and pull some more hair out before he got a chance to explain
further :-) Might be worth investigating though.

Cheers
Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cook [mailto:steve.cook at evitbe.com]
Sent: 28 August 2001 11:29
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Server based virus scanner


Hi folks,

can anyone suggest a good, reliable and hopefully easily maintained virus
scanner for Exchange Server? We're using Exchange 5.1 on NT4 Small Business
Server with about 10 clients. Anything that can help stop virii before they
reach our users would be useful.

Thanks for any tips.

.steve




From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Tue Aug 28 10:52:51 2001
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Tue Aug 28 10:52:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?
Message-ID: <179560C262784-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>

There is one wrinkle.  I tried using webcam32 in the mode where it cycles though
two or more cameras and I discovered that the version I have (6-12 months old)
will not distinguish between two of the same kind of camera, so it wont cycle.  I
checked with Surveyor and they told me the obvious, get two different kinds of
camera!  This  quirk clearly affects your application with 4 cameras.  If you
look at their help files you can see that they use two different cameras.  HTH

-----Original Message-----
From: Salvatore Palmisano [mailto:spalmisano at usashs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:57 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?


Melody,

I do exactly this, with the exception of the frequency.
I have a web cam attached to my system in my office that captures an image,
FTPs it to my web server, and makes it available on my web site, every 30
seconds, 24 hours a day.

There are several ways of doing this, the most important thing being
hardware:
Obviously the camera must have some interface to the computer.  There are
several software packages that'll then snap an image from the camera and ftp
it whereever you'd like; either to a local ftp server or a provider.

Most webcam software packages support a dial-up connection that'll call a
number, upload the image, and disconnect the modem (Im using WebCam32 from
Surveyor Software http://www.webcam32.com/).

If you do a Google search on webcam software you'll find an abundant source
of information on what's available.

You'll also need web space, and there are lots of sites that give space
especially for web cams (CollegeClub.com, Spotlife.com, etc...again, a
search will yield plenty of options).

Once you have an image capture system and a place to host that image, the
rest is just making sure you automate the FTPing of that image.
Hope this helps, and good luck; keep writing if you have any other questions
:)

--Salvatore

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Melody Kerchhoff
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:40 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] How do I link cameras to the web?


Hello Listlings,

I have to admit up front that I have not done a Google or an Evolt search ..
sorry. Having got that out of the way, my problem is as follows:

Thanks so much in advance. I know if anyone can help me, you guys can. I
love this list and have gained so much knowledge by lurking. Thank you all
for sharing and for taking the time to supply such detailed answers.

Regards,
Melody

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

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M````0``',"QG'O'8+\$!0``(,(YV;O/8+\$!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z(```
M```>`!T.`0```"P```!;=&AE;&ES=%T at 2&]W(&1O($D@;&EN:R!C86UE<F%S
M('1O('1H92!W96(_`!X`-1`!````/@```#PY-T)!0C`W1#,S,T9$-3$Q.#,W
M1C`P1#!"-S$R1D)%0C-#,T0Y-4!E;6%I;"UF,2YE:6$N9&]E+F=O=CX````+
M`"D```````L`(P```````P`&$-Q*(U`#``<06`D```,`$!```````P`1$`$`
M```>``@0`0```&4```!42$5214E33TY%5U))3DM,14E44DE%1%5324Y'5T5"
M0T%-,S))3E1(14U/1$572$5214E40UE#3$535$A/54=(5%=/3U)-3U)%0T%-
M15)!4T%.1$E$25-#3U9%4D5$5$A!5%1(``````(!?P`!````/@```#PY-T)!
M0C`W1#,S,T9$-3$Q.#,W1C`P1#!"-S$R1D)%0C-#,T0Y-4!E;6%I;"UF,2YE
0:6$N9&]E+F=O=CX```#4`@==
`
end




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Aug 28 10:57:41 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 10:57:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0FD@arnold.bedrock.com>

| IIRC, you can install the SQL Server Developer Edition on the 
| machine you
| are running MSDE on, and you'll gain Enterprise Manager 
| without losing any
| data within MSDE.
| 

Yep,

It's a great way to get more than one server for the license.

All you have to do is "install" MS SQL Server and only select the option for
"client tools" or the verbiage to that effect. This will give you Enterprise
Manager and other tools, like my favorite command-line like utility, Query
Analyzer.

<rory disposition="HTH" alt="8)"/>



From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 10:59:32 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 10:59:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41>
Message-ID: <0bb601c12fda$af0a5330$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Ed,

I'm not sure if you're wrong, but it seems unlikely that MS would bundle an
Enterprise level database for FREE with Access 2000.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Courtenay" <ed at edcourtenay.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [thelist] MSDE management


: Correct me if I'm wrong - but MSDE *is* essentially a runtime MSSQL
without
: any of the management facilities or utilities (Enterprise Manager, iSQL,
: iSQL/W etc.)






From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Aug 28 11:04:01 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:04:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
Message-ID: <001701c12fda$8a93c2c0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

Yet another browser with New Features!!

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/evaluation/features/default.asp#section5

Yes they implement the dreaded CSS Box Model correctly.
They do not ship a Java Virtual Machine.
Doom on Java Applet creators and sites that use them.
http://www.microsoft.com/java/
They say it is installed on demand. 5 megs on a modem is nobodys idea of a
good time. Microsoft Java.


They do not support Netscape style plugins.
Although there is a workaround for the quicktime plugin.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/tutorials/activex.html
hattip: Zeldman
They want you to use ActiveX controls, and we know how much fun those are.

<snip>
Fault Collection
 Enables users to extract information about an Internet Explorer problem and
upload the data to Microsoft for analysis. This information can help
identify potential issues Microsoft needs to address in future Internet
Explorer Service Packs.
</snip>
Really this is not a beta!!

Internet Explorer 6 does not support installation on computers that are
running Microsoft Windows 95. This may not be an issue to the folks here,
but trust me it is an issue to a lot of companies, non-profits, and places
where computing and computers are not replaced every two years.

And it will probably wipe out the earlier versions as usual.

I'm not sure that the price we paid for the Box Model was such a good Idea.

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Aug 28 11:14:34 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:14:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD0FE@arnold.bedrock.com>

| I'm not sure if you're wrong, but it seems unlikely that MS 
| would bundle an
| Enterprise level database for FREE with Access 2000.

Joshua,

I'm also not sure of all the differences, and Ed is fairly true, MSDE is
SQL's runtime engine. It is crippled, no more than 5 connections give any
decent performance, and DBs can only be less than 3 Gig. This, and no
management tools, allows MS sing, "Show me the money!" with their enterprise
"customers."

MDSE even comes with DTS, though without the graphical wizards of Enterprise
Manager, you have to be inured to the, ah, peculiarities of VB and the DTS
object model to make much use of it... OR buy the enterprise version of SQL
Server and export the packages. Just looking at the possibilities available
with DTS and the near-vertical learning curve for the voluminous text that
one has to test the limits of modern plastics technology and push through
the keyboard would make the $5000 for the SQL license begin to look like a
less risky proposition, especially for deep-pocketed, risk-averse
corporations.

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised to find that someone has a very nice
replacement for the Enterprise Manager built with the DMO set of objects, to
manage the SQL Server instances. I saw a book with an example of how to
build one... your own customer Enterprise Manager tool for MSDE!

<rory disposition="AHTH" alt="8)"/>



From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Tue Aug 28 11:19:43 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:19:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F4E@flash>

I find the whole Java thing highly amusing...

Sun sues Microsoft for trying to add proprietary features to Java (both to
improve performance, and potentially lock customers into the Window
platform)  Sun wins, and Microsoft  goes home bruised and angry.  Windows XP
comes out, and lo and behold, no Java.  Microsoft fears a Sun lawsuit and
injunction on Windows XP.  Which seems reasonable...

Now Sun is bitching and moaning and how Microsoft is abusing their monopoly
to shut out Java.  But hey, Microsoft is Sun's CUSTOMER.  If you sue someone
for shoplifting, you tell them to never come back...well, that's what you
wanted!  Except this customer holds the keys to the castle.

Sun should of thought this one through.

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: the head lemur [mailto:headlemur at clearskymail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:00 AM
To: !Evolt
Subject: [thelist] IE6


Yet another browser with New Features!!

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/evaluation/features/default.asp#section5

Yes they implement the dreaded CSS Box Model correctly.
They do not ship a Java Virtual Machine.
Doom on Java Applet creators and sites that use them.
http://www.microsoft.com/java/
They say it is installed on demand. 5 megs on a modem is nobodys idea of a
good time. Microsoft Java.


They do not support Netscape style plugins.
Although there is a workaround for the quicktime plugin.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/tutorials/activex.html
hattip: Zeldman
They want you to use ActiveX controls, and we know how much fun those are.

<snip>
Fault Collection
 Enables users to extract information about an Internet Explorer problem and
upload the data to Microsoft for analysis. This information can help
identify potential issues Microsoft needs to address in future Internet
Explorer Service Packs.
</snip>
Really this is not a beta!!

Internet Explorer 6 does not support installation on computers that are
running Microsoft Windows 95. This may not be an issue to the folks here,
but trust me it is an issue to a lot of companies, non-profits, and places
where computing and computers are not replaced every two years.

And it will probably wipe out the earlier versions as usual.

I'm not sure that the price we paid for the Box Model was such a good Idea.

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Aug 28 11:43:45 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:43:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F4E@flash>
Message-ID: <3B8BC7D2.4020603@starkmedia.com>

Thats really only half the story Ryan.. Yes Sun did sue MS, and yes they 
won. the reason they didn't ship Java with XP isn't because they feared 
another lawsuit though.. the conditions of the first lawsuit stipulated 
a $20mil payoff from MS to Sun along with MS asking Sun to be able to 
use Java for the next 5-7 years(can't remember exact figures offhand) 
*without* the 'Java' logo though.

if MS's reason for not shipping with XP is that they feared a lawsuit, 
how could they have continued shipping a JVM with IE for the past 2 
years? whether you like to say it or not, this is classic MS.

what do you say to people checking out a site like bmwfilms.com - which 
uses applets - when they ask why they can't see certain parts of the 
site anymore? is it fair to *them* to make grandma download and install 
a ~5Mb JVM? is it fair to consumers? not really on both counts, which is 
why all this "We're doing whats best for consumers" spin is BS. :)

.djc.

Ryan Finley wrote:
> I find the whole Java thing highly amusing...
> 
> Sun sues Microsoft for trying to add proprietary features to Java (both to
> improve performance, and potentially lock customers into the Window
> platform)  Sun wins, and Microsoft  goes home bruised and angry.  Windows XP
> comes out, and lo and behold, no Java.  Microsoft fears a Sun lawsuit and
> injunction on Windows XP.  Which seems reasonable...
> 
> Now Sun is bitching and moaning and how Microsoft is abusing their monopoly
> to shut out Java.  But hey, Microsoft is Sun's CUSTOMER.  If you sue someone
> for shoplifting, you tell them to never come back...well, that's what you
> wanted!  Except this customer holds the keys to the castle.
> 
> Sun should of thought this one through.




From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Tue Aug 28 11:45:37 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:45:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370EA56B@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1D3C@ITG_B02>

I have to agree.  Sun seems to be whining here.  They can't have things both
ways.  I can work with Java or ActiveX.  I don't care, but the rest of the
world seems to.  Coding in ActiveX components into your web page is a good
way to drive away hits, it seems.
Personally I like the extra flexibility I get from ActiveX.  So do the virus
coders though :-(  , causing everyone to be afraid of any custom ActiveX
components.

Brian W. King

I find the whole Java thing highly amusing...

Sun sues Microsoft for trying to add proprietary features to Java (both to
improve performance, and potentially lock customers into the Window
platform)  Sun wins, and Microsoft  goes home bruised and angry.  Windows XP
comes out, and lo and behold, no Java.  Microsoft fears a Sun lawsuit and
injunction on Windows XP.  Which seems reasonable...

Now Sun is bitching and moaning and how Microsoft is abusing their monopoly
to shut out Java.  But hey, Microsoft is Sun's CUSTOMER.  If you sue someone
for shoplifting, you tell them to never come back...well, that's what you
wanted!  Except this customer holds the keys to the castle.

Sun should of thought this one through.

        Ryan Finley
        President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)






From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Tue Aug 28 11:55:30 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Tue Aug 28 11:55:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F51@flash>

<<
if MS's reason for not shipping with XP is that they feared a lawsuit, 
how could they have continued shipping a JVM with IE for the past 2 
years? whether you like to say it or not, this is classic MS.
>>

"Classic MS".  Yes, I agree.  Microsoft is very smart, and very ruthless.
They are definitely the bully on the playground.  But Sun was completely
shortsighted.  They pissed off the bully, and now the bully came back and
stomped them.  Sun should have known better than to piss off Microsoft...who
was voluntarily bundling Java on their operating system.

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Tue Aug 28 12:02:35 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:02:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Funky Scroll Bar won't go away
Message-ID: <OF5B4C92C7.B77FA4B5-ON85256AB6.005D17CE@beaerospace.com>

Hi all.
I can't figure out why I'm getting an empty vertical scroll bar on my
page...
http://66.156.220.225/
serving it from my DSL connection for now... hence the ip
I know it must be something stupid... I'm just overlooking it.

TIA!
-Ron




From paola at limitless.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 12:02:39 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:02:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] image location
References: <20010827070148.44503.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8BCDCF.4E236F24@limitless.co.uk>

VEGAP BCN wrote:
> Does anybody know a way to decode an image catched
> from the web in a way that I could find out any trace
> of where it came from?

The only thing I can think of is to look for any GIF comments.
The GIF format allows for comments to be included in the file.
Packages like GIF Construction Set always adds a comment to
include the name and company that the software is registered
with.  Other packages may also do this and, if you want to
trace the site it came from, you could ask the people who
created the image.

I only know of GIF Construction Set to show such comments.
It's software to create GIF animations but it also allows
you to examine the blocks that make up any GIF:
http://www.mindworkshop.com/alchemy/gifcon.html

This page describes the GIF format:
http://members.aol.com/royalef/gifabout.htm


Paola



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue Aug 28 12:17:14 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:17:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F51@flash>
Message-ID: <3B8BD0C7.1F977B9E@avencom.com>

Ryan Finley wrote:
> "Classic MS".  Yes, I agree.  Microsoft is very smart, and very ruthless.
> They are definitely the bully on the playground.  But Sun was completely
> shortsighted.  They pissed off the bully, and now the bully came back and
> stomped them.  Sun should have known better than to piss off Microsoft...who
> was voluntarily bundling Java on their operating system.

I think Microsoft doesn't do things "voluntarily" - they do things to
enhance their bottom line. When that benefits the people who use MS
software, it's good. When it hurts the people who use MS software.
that's bad. I think cutting out both plugins and Java from their newer
browsers MS is making further moves to embrace and extend all the web. I
think however you feel about this (pro / con / neutral) - I don't think
this is deniable. Microsoft is attempting to own as much of the
technology web developers depend on as possible. This is in their
interest. I leave it to my fellow web developers whether this is indeed
in *our* interest.

Even though they *care* about developers:
http://www.f---edcompany.com/images/developers.mpeg

When the truth is more like they care about changing our minds and
rolling over and taking whatever they dish out. They count on us being
too busy to care when they make big stupid moves.

The truth is that Microsoft acted in bad faith, both by breaking their
original agreement with Sun, and now, by being disingenuous about their
reasons for not shipping a JVM. The actual reason is that "Microsoft
would like to see Java die as a programming language, and Sun die as a
company."

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From michael at tdh-marketing.com  Tue Aug 28 12:23:12 2001
From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:23:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Link Stylesheets
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20010828105342.00a012f0@smtp.nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <002701c12fe4$cc67fae0$4b01a8c0@michael>

Wanted to thank everyone for their input.  I was mainly curious on exactly
how a stylesheet was referenced by the browser (whether actually downloaded
or if the browser "queried" the server for the file each and everytime a tag
was encountered etc.)

Once again thank you for the information

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Oviatt" <rgoviatt at nbnet.nb.ca>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Link Stylesheets


> Michael:
>
> Not sure where your going with this, but...
>
> Your stylesheet is loaded into the client's cache when called by the
<link>
> tag, and the styles defined by it are used as needed.  If your using a
> large stylesheet and want to cut down on the load time of search
> results.  Use the same stylesheet for your search page.  That way it is
> downloaded to the viewer's machine before the search results, and does not
> need to be downloaded again, for the viewer's system will have cached it.
>
> Rob Oviatt
>
>
> At 04:13 PM 8/27/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Maybe someone can help me with this...I am trying to find out exactly how
a
> >stylesheet is referenced by the browser when using the <link
> >rel="stylesheet" etc..> within the HTML document.  Does the browser
actually
> >downloads the stylesheet or does the browser just "query" the stylesheet
for
> >each and every HTML tag?
> >
> >The reason I am trying to find out is that we have a client who has a
> >quoting system that we built using PHP and mySQL.  With reps from all
over
> >the world using this thing, the quote records are numerous.  When a user
> >decides to view all records, it takes a bit of time due to the number of
> >records on the database.  So we are looking to optimize the page as much
as
> >possible.  We have already clean up our PHP code and streamlined the
> >database.  Now it is just a matter of tweakin the HTML portion if at all
> >possible.
> >
> >I know we are only going to get so much improvement but I am also very
> >curious on how a browser reacts to the <link rel="stylesheet" etc>
question.
> >
> >Thanks for any info
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 12:23:52 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:23:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Funky Scroll Bar won't go away
Message-ID: <01c12fe5$aab3a240$LocalHost@rudy>

> I can't figure out why I'm getting an empty vertical scroll bar 

hi ron

that's not your fault, that's just the way your browser works

i don't think you can get rid of it  

not unless you want to go to extraordinary lengths *cough*frames*cough*

everybody's used to seeing it, so i wouldn't worry


rudy




From fuse at toto.net  Tue Aug 28 12:27:37 2001
From: fuse at toto.net (Patrick Forsythe)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:27:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion Masters Please Advise on Evaluating a string
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828121401.02008330@toto.net>

<scenario>

I am passing variables whose names are created dynamically to another page 
via a form submission.  On the second page I am recreating the form names 
using the same method I used to create them on the first page.

<cfset patvar =  "##" & "form.#getit.tagname#id" & "##">  -> this is used 
to add the #form. and id# to a value that is created dynamically.

</scenario>


<problem stress="high">
The issue I am having is that when I try to do an insert or an update and 
try to set one of my fields to #patvar#  it puts #form.feildnameid# (where 
feildname is a dynamically created value pulled from my database) into the 
database not the value of #form.feildnameid#.  Have tried using the 
evaluate function that has not worked for me. I have tried with quotes and 
without quotes. I am about at the end of my rope.
I appreciate any help any one can give.
</problem>




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 12:29:19 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:29:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <026974025171c81PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Joe Crawford wrote on 28/8/01 6:11 pm

>Even though they *care* about developers:
>http://www.f---edcompany.com/images/developers.mpeg

Actually, that's a really interesting piece of psychology going
on. Ballmer is not an idiot. He's not a hysteric. He's worked
*very* hard to put together an opener which
a) Whips the masses into a frenzy (note you had to be there
   to be affected by the groupthink)
b) Gives the masses a *really* strong feeling that MS are behind
     them

The apedance is even more interesting - watch it with an
NLP insight and you'll see classic hypnotist's techniques
like leading and pacing
http://212.113.16.236/media/578.mpeg
Just watch him in the few seconds before the "I have 4
words" line - he checks the audience, and *knows* he's
got them.

Oh yeah - this might raise a grin:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/21300.html

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Aug 28 12:32:08 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:32:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML Form to XML Document on Apache
In-Reply-To: <011a01c12fa8$0cbe64e0$fd01a8c0@dante>
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNOEHOEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
 <002101c12ec2$d3cf5d00$fd01a8c0@dante>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828102420.02d01360@baratta.com>

At 02:58 AM 8/28/2001, you wrote:

>Ideally, what I need is a solution using Perl/CGI that can:
>
>- Upload an image to a specific folder on the server the server & store the
>   file's name (eg: "mycat.gif").
>- Convert the HTML form output to populate the XML template below
>   then append it to an XML document on the server - within the
>   <library> elements - including the stored image file's name (
><image_link> ).
>
>Is this possible?

Dante...

I don't know why this is not just a simple file upload and text file 
manipulation problem.

Using GCI.pm or cgi-lib.pl you can capture a file to uploaded and dump it 
to any location that the web server has write access to. Then just have the 
CGI script constuct the XML manually, open the XML Text file, replace the 
</library> with the next <book> record and a new closing library tag.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 12:34:04 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:34:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion Masters Please Advise on Evaluating a string
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828121401.02008330@toto.net>
Message-ID: <0c2501c12fe7$e30faa10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Try,

<cfset patvar = form[getit.tagname & "id"]>

HTH,

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Forsythe" <fuse at toto.net>
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion Masters Please Advise on Evaluating a string


: <scenario>
:
: I am passing variables whose names are created dynamically to another page
: via a form submission.  On the second page I am recreating the form names
: using the same method I used to create them on the first page.
:
: <cfset patvar =  "##" & "form.#getit.tagname#id" & "##">  -> this is used
: to add the #form. and id# to a value that is created dynamically.
:
: </scenario>






From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Tue Aug 28 12:37:01 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:37:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Funky Scroll Bar won't go away - different problem
Message-ID: <OFA0030989.26B23EFF-ON85256AB6.005FAACE@beaerospace.com>

<snip>
that's not your fault, that's just the way your browser works
i don't think you can get rid of it
</snip>

Thanks Rudy.  I've been working in frames for quite a while now at work...
been meaning to straighten out my own page for some time now.
Another problem I'm having though, is that the first time the page is
loaded in IE 5.5, there is a gap between the right scrollbar and the top
image.  If I hit refresh, the table holding the image expands all the way.
Any clues?
The top image is the result of a repeating image in the background of a
table.  See below:
<table width="100%" border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 background
="images/backgroundTop.gif"><!--that was the is the repeating image-->
     <tr><td>
     <img src="images/topLeftCorner.gif" width="161" height="116" border
="0"><br>
     </td><td width="100%">
     <center><img src="images/ronsPage.gif" border=0 height=116
width=394><br></center>
     </td></tr>
</table>

Here's my IP again:
http://66.156.220.225/

TIA
-Ron

P.S. I know having the table and repeating image is funky, but it works for
making the page look good at all sizes.  If anyone has suggestions on a
better way to do this, I'm all ears.




From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Tue Aug 28 12:39:21 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:39:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F55@flash>

<<
The truth is that Microsoft acted in bad faith, both by breaking their
original agreement with Sun, and now, by being disingenuous about their
reasons for not shipping a JVM. The actual reason is that "Microsoft
would like to see Java die as a programming language, and Sun die as a
company."
>>

I totally agree.  But I don't see anything strange about this either.
Companies are supposed to try to kill each other off.  Push the law until
the law pushes them back.  Vicious competition is a trademark of American
capitalism.  Large companies are not moral entities...they are profit
maximizing machines.  And Microsoft is the poster child of American
capitalism.

<<
http://www.f---edcompany.com/images/developers.mpeg
>>

Sun should have watched this before picking a fight...this guy is
psychotically relentless!


	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com



From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 12:52:23 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 12:52:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <08e6c4848171c81PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Ryan Finley wrote on 28/8/01 6:35 pm

>I totally agree.  But I don't see anything strange about this either.
>Companies are supposed to try to kill each other off.  Push the law until
>the law pushes them back.  Vicious competition is a trademark of American
>capitalism.  Large companies are not moral entities...they are profit
>maximizing machines.  And Microsoft is the poster child of American
>capitalism.

I'm not sure I agree with that as an effective model for corporate
governance - to have longevity, a company has to be more than just
a moneymaking machine. It's possibly part of the reason for the .com
crash - everyone forgot the longterm game and played for short term
results.

Found this the other day, which echoes and amplifies:
http://www.strategy-business.com/thoughtleaders/01211/page1.html

Cheers
Martin



_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Tue Aug 28 13:00:59 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Tue Aug 28 13:00:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F56@flash>

<<

I'm not sure I agree with that as an effective model for corporate
governance - to have longevity, a company has to be more than just
a moneymaking machine. It's possibly part of the reason for the .com
crash - everyone forgot the longterm game and played for short term
results.

Found this the other day, which echoes and amplifies:
http://www.strategy-business.com/thoughtleaders/01211/page1.html

>>

One could argue the exact opposite.  One could hardly argue that dotcoms
were money-MAKING machines.  You had an entire culture based on giving away
things for "free".  They built their castles out of air, when they should
have been concerned about profits.  That was their mistake.

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 13:05:23 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 13:05:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <001cf4001181c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Ryan Finley wrote on 28/8/01 6:57 pm

>One could argue the exact opposite.  One could hardly argue that dotcoms
>were money-MAKING machines.  You had an entire culture based on giving away
>things for "free".  They built their castles out of air, when they should
>have been concerned about profits.  That was their mistake.

Tell that to the VCs.

*all* the business plans were based on "We give stuff away until we crush
all our competitors, then we clean up", which would have worked if the
competition weren't doing the same.

Of course, some local management got it all confused, and viewed giving
stuff away as the end... but that's still very different from what De
Geus is proposing.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From webdesign1 at irubin.com  Tue Aug 28 13:55:34 2001
From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 13:55:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
Message-ID: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>

Hello,

I would like your valuable comments on a site I am currently developing.

There are really two version of the site  - one is liquid and the other is
fixed (Ice, I guess). I am not sure which one to use and any comments on one
or the other would be appreciated. Also, the content on both sites looks a
bit odd. The text just does not work very well.

Thanks in advance.


Fixed - Ice

http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/
http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/

Liquid

http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/test.html



Roee Rubin
Irubin Consulting
roee at irubin.com
http://www.irubin.com/





From JenniferE at mif.com  Tue Aug 28 14:02:17 2001
From: JenniferE at mif.com (JenniferE at mif.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:02:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
Message-ID: <A0AC96C40E44184EA11F1E43F1826F343BA20A@mist.mifnet.local>

http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/

This is the one I prefer.  My first reaction though is that the logo needs to be sharper.  I'm not sure if it intentionally a bit out of focus, but it freaks my eyes out when I look at it.  And now that I look again, the info in the top right does
the same.

I like the design!
Jennifer



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 14:09:53 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:09:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
In-Reply-To: <A0AC96C40E44184EA11F1E43F1826F343BA20A@mist.mifnet.local>
Message-ID: <20010828190612.16915.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com>

Those logos need to be GIFs!

/rg

--- JenniferE at mif.com wrote:
> http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/
> 
> This is the one I prefer.  My first reaction though is that the logo needs to be
> sharper.  I'm not sure if it intentionally a bit out of focus, but it freaks my eyes
> out when I look at it.  And now that I look again, the info in the top right does
> the same.
> 
> I like the design!
> Jennifer


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Aug 28 14:13:02 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:13:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion -- Now 2 much escape!
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com>

Now for the real fun!

So, here I am, illumined to the Way of Escape for lowly parameters being
ruthlessly marshaled under the exhausting heat of deadlines and blinding
light of my desk's florescent canopy... the waves of light bend and refract
off the intensity of my monitor's radiation in patterns of tribulation
making the solutions appear close... enough... to... reach... but then
vanish. Move over, Cool Hand, you never dealt with the cards that ColdFusion
plays.

So, back in the pit, digging away. It seems as if the excellently
articulated and cunningly crafted solution, forged in the arcing power of a
collaborative exchange yesterday proved to be short of the eccentricity
factor needed to work rationally with ColdFusion. Here's what the heck I'm
talking about--

<cfscript>
	function SQLEsc(SQLVar) //ha! you should have seen the other name!
	{	return(Replace(SQLVar, "'", "''", "ALL");
	}
</cfscript>

Basically, a C+P of what .jeff contributed.

When called -- @param = #SQLEsc(oStruct.Field)# -- the value is returned, as
expected, with the single quotes escaped by prefacing (or suffixing?) with
another single quote.

However, this is now a regular variable or something strikingly similar
enough to the ColdFusion Logic Machine whereby it treats it in the same way
-- yep, it automagically escapes the single quotes. After a while, my values
look like they've been targeted by a machine gun or something:
"17'''''''''''''''''''''' R/L."

"Hmmm," I thought. "Maybe if I just Trim() the string, the same thing will
happen, giving CF an excuse to escape the values automagically." Hope but
nope. 8)

So, for the most fun like this I've had in some time, my function now is
like this, and it works:

<cfscript>
	function SQLEsc(SQLVar) //ha! you should have seen the other name!
	{	return(SQLVar);
	}
</cfscript>

Am I ready to leave this somewhat albatross solution to do the thing I need?

Maybe I could get some help on this question?

<rory disposition="sounds cynical, but I'm smiling" alt="8)"/>



From evolt at spinhead.com  Tue Aug 28 14:19:07 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:19:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <000701c12ff5$b384c380$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

Reading a bit about graphics at Webmonkey, I came across this line:

"To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from the
original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "

How true is the second half? Can I really take someone else's graphic, edit
it until it's no longer recognizable, and use it? Doesn't copyright cover
derived works?

I'm not trolling for 'stealing is bad' comments, I'm wondering if anyone has
genuine authoritative info on that exact technical condition (because I'm
curious, not because I'm planning it; I know enough artists who owe me
favors that I'll never need to do my own graphics again.)

spinhead






From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Tue Aug 28 14:20:30 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:20:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion -- Now 2 much escape!
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIEFKKCAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> <cfscript>
> 	function SQLEsc(SQLVar) //ha! you should have seen the other name!
> 	{	return(Replace(SQLVar, "'", "''", "ALL");
> 	}
> </cfscript>
>
> Basically, a C+P of what .jeff contributed.
>
> When called -- @param = #SQLEsc(oStruct.Field)# -- the value is
> returned, as
> expected, with the single quotes escaped by prefacing (or suffixing?) with
> another single quote.
>
> However, this is now a regular variable or something strikingly similar
> enough to the ColdFusion Logic Machine whereby it treats it in
> the same way
> -- yep, it automagically escapes the single quotes. After a
> while, my values
> look like they've been targeted by a machine gun or something:
> "17'''''''''''''''''''''' R/L."

Ah, so you are passing this to the query:
	<CFQUERY ..
		update foo
		set blah = #SQLEsc(ComplexCrap)#
	</CFQUERY>
?  If so, then yes, what you are seeing makes sense... I guess. :)

> "Hmmm," I thought. "Maybe if I just Trim() the string, the same thing will
> happen, giving CF an excuse to escape the values automagically." Hope but
> nope. 8)

Now I'm confused. Going to confirm this.

> So, for the most fun like this I've had in some time, my function now is
> like this, and it works:
>
> <cfscript>
> 	function SQLEsc(SQLVar) //ha! you should have seen the other name!
> 	{	return(SQLVar);
> 	}
> </cfscript>
>
> Am I ready to leave this somewhat albatross solution to do the
> thing I need?
>
> Maybe I could get some help on this question?

In theory, if you want to use your old UDF, simply wrap the output in
PreserveSingleQuotes, and CF should completely ignore single quotes, ie, it
won't try to help you.

-Ray




From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 14:24:05 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:24:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion -- Now 2 much escape!
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <0c4b01c12ff7$42d18720$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Rory,

<rolling laugh>  If it works, go with it!  How ironic is that!  But, an
elegant way to cast any variable into a simple type so that CF will handle
it in the default manner.  Nicely done.  BTW, you could probably call the
function "simplify" :)

-joshua


----- Original Message -----
From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion -- Now 2 much escape!


: <cfscript>
: function SQLEsc(SQLVar) file://ha! you should have seen the other name!
: { return(SQLVar);
: }
: </cfscript>
:
: Am I ready to leave this somewhat albatross solution to do the thing I
need?
:
: Maybe I could get some help on this question?
:
: <rory disposition="sounds cynical, but I'm smiling" alt="8)"/>
:
: ---------------------------------------
: For unsubscribe and other options, including
: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
:




From wade at runstrong.com  Tue Aug 28 14:35:53 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:35:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <B7B13FB3.BD35%wade@runstrong.com>

on 8/28/01 11:58 AM, Roee Rubin at webdesign1 at irubin.com wrote:
I think the fixed design works a little better... line lengths get a bit
long past 1024x768 on the liquid design.

I'll also second what Jennifer says... all of the text in graphics seems
rather fuzzy to me. You might try leaving the text (especially in the
navigation) aliased.

I agree with your concerns about the copy. It seems awfully academic, which
may be appropriate given the clientele this company has. However, for most
other companies, the copy should be more active.

Wade


on 8/28/01 11:58 AM, Roee Rubin at webdesign1 at irubin.com wrote:

> I would like your valuable comments on a site I am currently developing
> http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/
> http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/test.html




From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 14:46:50 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:46:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <p05001908b7b1a3299370@[24.43.66.191]>

>I would like your valuable comments on a site I am currently developing.

This is the one I prefer:

http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/test.html

Here are some points I've noticed:

1) Bottom text nav and scroller text is way to small. This is typical 
for a site developed on Windows, not tested on Mac.

2) Even though this layout is more liquid, it doesn't fit in 620px 
wide, which means that I must expand my window fully. This is 
something PC users do all the time. Mac users make user of their 
desktops in a different way (we actually use it <g>), and so often 
leave at least a margin - which means reducing the window size.

3) The left grey bar is pretty, and I think that adding a little 
flexibility to it would allow you to reduce the overall width of the 
page, solving point 2 at the same time.

4) I don't think w3c would validate the HTML.

The general look of the site is nice though. Very high tech. We get 
an immediate sense as to what the site is about.
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 14:56:51 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 14:56:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com> <p05001908b7b1a3299370@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <0c5901c12ffb$d6ba39b0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Frank just helped me find something else too.

If you are on a PC with a roller-ball mouse, press control while rolling the
ball.  You'll see the spacing flair out on the page even though the text all
stays the same size.  This happens when you have elements that use text
sizes not specifically set in pixels in the styles.  So, you are most likely
using non-breaking spaces or actual spaces to fill up empty cells, but the
cells do not have any styles applied to them.

There are three ways to fix this:

1.  Apply a style to the TD in general, setting it's pixel height for fonts.
2.  Use single-pixel spacers instead of spaces.
3.  Do not use ANY pixel defined classes and change the layout so it does
not break if the user has specified some odd-ball font size.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Critique


: 1) Bottom text nav and scroller text is way to small. This is typical
: for a site developed on Windows, not tested on Mac.





From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 15:00:38 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:00:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org> <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael> <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org> <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as> <p05001904b7b0bc384bca@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <012001c12ffc$3f59d340$7623893e@oemcomputer>

> >  been seeing more table-less layouts lately using CSS. is
> >  it a lot more practical to use css instead of tables
> >  nowadays? what are the pros and cons of using each?

Just out of curiosity here, would a layout done with CSS be completely
static, or can you make it liquid as with tables? I've never tried to use
CSS for layout, I am to in love with tables. My better-half has her screen
resolution set higher than mine and when she  shows me some sites that are
bunched up in the top left corner, or sitting in the middle of the screen
with loads of space all round,  I don't think it is a particularly pleasing
design.

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 15:04:33 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:04:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Funky Scroll Bar won't go away - different problem
Message-ID: <01c12ffc$0795b3c0$LocalHost@rudy>

> http://66.156.220.225/
>... the first time the page is loaded in IE 5.5, there is a
> gap between the right scrollbar and the top image.  If I hit
> refresh, the table holding the image expands all the way.
> Any clues?

sorry, no idea

hey, how come you specify

     <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
             topmargin="0" leftmargin="0"
             marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">

but then you build that CCCC99 border strip into your images?

oh, never mind, i think i get it -- you wanted the table to touch the right
side of the window, but not the left, so you "built in" a bit of left
padding...

>   <table width="100%" border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0
          background="images/backgroundTop.gif">
>     <tr><td>
>       <img src="images/topLeftCorner.gif" width="161" height="116"
          border="0"><br>
>     </td><td width="100%">
>     <center><img src="images/ronsPage.gif" border=0 height=116
          width=394><br></center>
>     </td></tr>
>   </table>

try putting your background image into the table cells instead of the
table -- netscape 4 doesn't do table backgrounds

i really like how your design uses a tiling body background image down the
left side underneath the same table that uses a tiling image for the top
bar...

however, both your body background image backgroundLeft.gif
as well as the table backgroundTop one are really really slim --
what, one or two pixels? -- and i think i heard of page rendering
problems if background images weren't at least 8 pixels wide
and/or tall (not really sure about that number, though)...

i think charles johnson (http://littlegreenfootballs.com) had a
problem with this a while ago, so if you see this, charles, maybe
you can confirm or correct my faulty memory


rudy





From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Aug 28 15:21:58 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:21:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
References: <000701c12ff5$b384c380$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <00b101c12ffe$93f52600$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

> "To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from
the
> original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "

 I wouldn't use the second half as a defense

In order for you to "edit beyond recognition", you have to start with an
image.

"And where did you get the image?" the attorney asks.....
the bank account dwindles.....

Stealing Pixels
http://www.lemurzone.com/news/aug082001.htm

most folks will help you develop skills by pointing resources or by
answering questions concerning effects for creating images.

a lot of folks will be happy to let you use images for your sites. it
usually only takes an email.

If they don't that is their right and must be respected.




From mknepher at bluethingy.com  Tue Aug 28 15:28:04 2001
From: mknepher at bluethingy.com (Michael Knepher)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:28:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
References: <000701c12ff5$b384c380$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <001901c12fff$b2e98960$6e00a8c0@pacbell.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>

> Reading a bit about graphics at Webmonkey, I came across this line:
>
> "To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from
the
> original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "
>
> How true is the second half? Can I really take someone else's graphic,
edit
> it until it's no longer recognizable, and use it? Doesn't copyright cover
> derived works?
>
> I'm not trolling for 'stealing is bad' comments, I'm wondering if anyone
has
> genuine authoritative info on that exact technical condition (because I'm
> curious, not because I'm planning it; I know enough artists who owe me
> favors that I'll never need to do my own graphics again.)
>

Without seeing the context, I'd expect the second statement may be a bit
tongue-in-cheek on Webmonkey's part. After all, if you're going to take
someone else's image and truly edit it beyond recognition, there's really no
point in stealing that image to begin with, right? You could just as easily
start from scratch.

It's sort of like stealing the Mona Lisa, but to avoid being caught, you
paint a seascape over it so no one knows you stole the Mona Lisa.

But hey, now you have the Mona Lisa in your living room. Enjoy it. ;o)

In any case, copyright would indeed cover any derivative works (except in
the case of the Mona Lisa, which is in the public domain, though any
secondary images of it would be owned by the particular
photographer/artist).

Michael Knepher








From matthewmozer at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 15:47:32 2001
From: matthewmozer at hotmail.com (Matt Mozer)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:47:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Passing a GUID string from page to page using CFML
Message-ID: <F216rjbudzxxfYXFrwi0001493e@hotmail.com>

I have created a dll that assigns a guid string of 81 characters to a 
particular client that logs in on my website. Question is, once they hit the 
landing page that the dll returns after a successful login, how do I pass 
that CSID GUID from page to page to authenticate the user on each subsequent 
page they may visit in cold fusion? Any ideas? I could put something like 
http://www.blah.com?#url.csid# on the end of end link within the landing 
page, possibly. Is there some way better? The string looks something like 
this. Thanking You in advance.

http://www.joebob.com/cgi-bin/ClientInfo.dll?CSID=1C979DD647694817AE21F53487BC4372HG91D755CC134E209E74408E2EEC05F31203X1DO1BB8R51WW1941



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From chris at fuseware.com  Tue Aug 28 15:49:45 2001
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:49:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <001901c12fff$b2e98960$6e00a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>

But, if I take an image (either from the web, or scanned from a book, or
from a CD or wherever), pixelate the heck out of it, and run it through a
negative emboss, the resulting image should be beyond recognition, and yet
serve whatever warped artistic purpose I had.  Is this still considered
derivative and copywritten?

note: I have no skills in the graphics department, so the process above may
make no sense, but you get my point.


Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Knepher
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:26 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images


----- Original Message -----
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>

> Reading a bit about graphics at Webmonkey, I came across this line:
>
> "To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from
the
> original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "
>
> How true is the second half? Can I really take someone else's graphic,
edit
> it until it's no longer recognizable, and use it? Doesn't copyright cover
> derived works?
>
> I'm not trolling for 'stealing is bad' comments, I'm wondering if anyone
has
> genuine authoritative info on that exact technical condition (because I'm
> curious, not because I'm planning it; I know enough artists who owe me
> favors that I'll never need to do my own graphics again.)
>

Without seeing the context, I'd expect the second statement may be a bit
tongue-in-cheek on Webmonkey's part. After all, if you're going to take
someone else's image and truly edit it beyond recognition, there's really no
point in stealing that image to begin with, right? You could just as easily
start from scratch.

It's sort of like stealing the Mona Lisa, but to avoid being caught, you
paint a seascape over it so no one knows you stole the Mona Lisa.

But hey, now you have the Mona Lisa in your living room. Enjoy it. ;o)

In any case, copyright would indeed cover any derivative works (except in
the case of the Mona Lisa, which is in the public domain, though any
secondary images of it would be owned by the particular
photographer/artist).

Michael Knepher






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 28 15:50:24 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:50:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS or table?
In-Reply-To: <012001c12ffc$3f59d340$7623893e@oemcomputer>
References: <20010827192952.D044E52072@relay.evolt.org>
 <004501c12f34$acbf2f20$4b01a8c0@michael>
 <0aa001c12f37$1d91b680$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
 <20010827140540.A19145@piratehaven.org>
 <1857890835.20010828104301@manuel.as>
 <p05001904b7b0bc384bca@[24.43.66.191]>
 <012001c12ffc$3f59d340$7623893e@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <p05001909b7b1b28f31fd@[24.43.66.191]>

>  Just out of curiosity here, would a layout done with CSS
>  be completely static, or can you make it liquid as with
>  tables? I've never tried to use CSS for layout, I am to
>  in love with tables. My better-half has her screen
>  resolution set higher than mine and when she shows me
>  some sites that are bunched up in the top left corner,
>  or sitting in the middle of the screen with loads of
>  space all round, I don't think it is a particularly
>  pleasing design.

You can make your site liquid with CSS positioning with the use of 
elements such as 'relative' for the positioning, leaving height and 
widths undeclared, or using percentages. I chose to go the liquide 
rout with my own site. I'm actually very pleasantly surprised with 
what we can be done with CSS2. I've found a new joy in the simple art 
of HTML.
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 15:51:36 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:51:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Passing a GUID string from page to page using CFML
References: <F216rjbudzxxfYXFrwi0001493e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c6f01c13003$7c7f57c0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Matt,

I think the only other ways to pass the CSID would be to store the CSID in a
cookie, or to pass it in hidden form fields and make every link a form
submit image.  :)  So, ar far as having a better way, hmm, maybe not.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Mozer" <matthewmozer at hotmail.com>
Subject: [thelist] Passing a GUID string from page to page using CFML


:
: I have created a dll that assigns a guid string of 81 characters to a
: particular client that logs in on my website. Question is, once they hit
the
: landing page that the dll returns after a successful login, how do I pass
: that CSID GUID from page to page to authenticate the user on each
subsequent
: page they may visit in cold fusion? Any ideas? I could put something like
: http://www.blah.com?#url.csid# on the end of end link within the landing
: page, possibly. Is there some way better? The string looks something like
: this. Thanking You in advance.
:
:
http://www.joebob.com/cgi-bin/ClientInfo.dll?CSID=1C979DD647694817AE21F53487
BC4372HG91D755CC134E209E74408E2EEC05F31203X1DO1BB8R51WW1941





From martin at takingitglobal.org  Tue Aug 28 15:53:46 2001
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Tue Aug 28 15:53:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
Message-ID: <000001c13003$43befdf0$b07ba8c0@toronto.takingitglobal.org>

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> But, if I take an image (either from the web, or scanned from a
> book, or from a CD or wherever), pixelate the heck out of > it, and
> run it through a negative emboss, the resulting image should be
> beyond recognition, and yet serve whatever warped > artistic
> purpose I had.  Is this still considered derivative and
> copywritten?  

If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
watermark that would most likely have survived even all that. So the
artwork would still be technically "recognisable" ;)

- -martin

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Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>

iQA+AwUBO4wEY/BkKbnuftUkEQI1aQCgk+Oo81Ubedcpg7jpBCZu1tnr0aIAl2lV
ACy+iKlMS0OgpXE4MwnQeh4=
=ykgn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 28 16:01:28 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:01:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <000001c13003$43befdf0$b07ba8c0@toronto.takingitglobal.org>
References: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
Message-ID: <200108282101.f7SL1Rk23853@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Martin Kuplens-Ewart" <martin at takingitglobal.org>
> 
> If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
> watermark that would most likely have survived even all that. So the
> artwork would still be technically "recognisable" ;)

you mean, if the artist had the money to buy the license, knew of 
the technology, was technically capable to implement it, and could 
pull it out of a reworked image?

well, then sure...



From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Tue Aug 28 16:02:02 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:02:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <v02140b09b7b1b53374d1@[10.112.1.18]>

At 10:25 AM 8/28/1, Martin wrote:
> The apedance is even more interesting - watch it with an
> NLP insight and you'll see classic hypnotist's techniques
> like leading and pacing
> http://212.113.16.236/media/578.mpeg
> Just watch him in the few seconds before the "I have 4
> words" line - he checks the audience, and *knows* he's
> got them.

It's a bit difficult for me to imagine Milton H. Erickson gallivanting
so.... ;-)



At 9:33 AM 8/28/1, Daniel J. Cody wrote:
> what do you say to people checking out a site like bmwfilms.com - which
> uses applets - when they ask why they can't see certain parts of the
> site anymore? is it fair to *them* to make grandma download and install
> a ~5Mb JVM? is it fair to consumers? not really on both counts, which is
> why all this "We're doing whats best for consumers" spin is BS. :)

This seems similar to how Netscape 6 broke existing pages...?


jd










From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 16:04:03 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:04:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <06fa12100211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Chris Evans wrote on 28/8/01 9:41 pm

>But, if I take an image (either from the web, or scanned from a book, or
>from a CD or wherever), pixelate the heck out of it, and run it through a
>negative emboss, the resulting image should be beyond recognition, and yet
>serve whatever warped artistic purpose I had.  Is this still considered
>derivative and copywritten?

Yup.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From mike at dehart.net  Tue Aug 28 16:04:26 2001
From: mike at dehart.net (Mike DeHart)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:04:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Write Only Perl Question...
Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010828164341.00ab2af0@mail.mail-server.com>

Help!

My Perl is passable at best & when it gets to this elegantly concise sort 
of stuff, the right hand side that is... I'm totally at a loss!

<snippet>

if ($verify_new_users && $FORM{'action'} =~ /^\w{2}\d{7}$/) { ...bla bla bla }

</snippet>

thx..... m


Mike DeHart
703 448 8120
703 587 6485 cell
mike at dehart.net

When in doubt, buy him a cordless drill. It doesn't matter if he already 
has one. I have a friend who owns 17 and he has yet to complain. As a man, 
you can never have too many cordless drills. No one knows why.




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Aug 28 16:06:33 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:06:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
References: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
Message-ID: <00ce01c13004$ce896dc0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

  Is this still considered
> derivative and copywritten?

 and where did you get the image?






From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Aug 28 16:11:57 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:11:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
Message-ID: <000101c13006$37f08090$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

It sounds like you would be better off with a new image. To me, beyond
recognition means a big blurred mess. If you take an image from a book,
basically your plagiarizing it to the web. I believe copyright laws say that
you have to make a specific reference to the origin of the information
presented, so you would have to give the artists name, the book you got it
from and any other pertinent information about it.

We went over plagiarizing in logics class in college but maybe things have
changed.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Evans
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:41 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images


But, if I take an image (either from the web, or scanned from a book, or
from a CD or wherever), pixelate the heck out of it, and run it through a
negative emboss, the resulting image should be beyond recognition, and yet
serve whatever warped artistic purpose I had.  Is this still considered
derivative and copywritten?

note: I have no skills in the graphics department, so the process above may
make no sense, but you get my point.


Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Knepher
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:26 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images


----- Original Message -----
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>

> Reading a bit about graphics at Webmonkey, I came across this line:
>
> "To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from
the
> original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "
>
> How true is the second half? Can I really take someone else's graphic,
edit
> it until it's no longer recognizable, and use it? Doesn't copyright cover
> derived works?
>
> I'm not trolling for 'stealing is bad' comments, I'm wondering if anyone
has
> genuine authoritative info on that exact technical condition (because I'm
> curious, not because I'm planning it; I know enough artists who owe me
> favors that I'll never need to do my own graphics again.)
>

Without seeing the context, I'd expect the second statement may be a bit
tongue-in-cheek on Webmonkey's part. After all, if you're going to take
someone else's image and truly edit it beyond recognition, there's really no
point in stealing that image to begin with, right? You could just as easily
start from scratch.

It's sort of like stealing the Mona Lisa, but to avoid being caught, you
paint a seascape over it so no one knows you stole the Mona Lisa.

But hey, now you have the Mona Lisa in your living room. Enjoy it. ;o)

In any case, copyright would indeed cover any derivative works (except in
the case of the Mona Lisa, which is in the public domain, though any
secondary images of it would be owned by the particular
photographer/artist).

Michael Knepher






---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



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From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 16:13:26 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:13:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <083ea5109211c81PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

aardvark wrote on 28/8/01 9:57 pm

>> From: "Martin Kuplens-Ewart" <martin at takingitglobal.org>
>> 
>> If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
>> watermark that would most likely have survived even all that. So the
>> artwork would still be technically "recognisable" ;)
>
>you mean, if the artist had the money to buy the license, knew of 
>the technology, was technically capable to implement it, and could 
>pull it out of a reworked image?

Of course, 'enforceable' is a different question...

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From matantisi at matantisi.com  Tue Aug 28 16:14:31 2001
From: matantisi at matantisi.com (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:14:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <200108282101.f7SL1Rk23853@leo.evolt.org>
References: <000001c13003$43befdf0$b07ba8c0@toronto.takingitglobal.org>
 <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010828170833.039aefd8@127.0.0.1>

At 04:57 PM 8/28/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > From: "Martin Kuplens-Ewart" <martin at takingitglobal.org>
> >
> > If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
> > watermark that would most likely have survived even all that. So the
> > artwork would still be technically "recognisable" ;)
>
>you mean, if the artist had the money to buy the license, knew of
>the technology, was technically capable to implement it, and could
>pull it out of a reworked image?
>
>well, then sure...

There are really two different points there: a) is it covered by copyright 
and b) can they catch you and prove it.

The answer to a) is "yes".  The answer to b) is "depends".




From jeff at alphashop.net  Tue Aug 28 16:16:24 2001
From: jeff at alphashop.net (Jeff Howden)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:16:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml on mac/ie5
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEHOINAA.jeff@alphashop.net>

listlings,

thought i'd throw this out to those that've done more mac-centric dhtml than
i have.

i'm working on the frontdoor to a site that'll be released later this week
and i've run up against an odd issue with it when viewed in mac/ie5.  there
is a green-striped bar across the middle of the design that has dhtml sub
menus below each one that popup when you mouse over the image.  on the mac
the alignment is *way* off.

in order to view the site you'll have to edit your hosts file.  you'll need
the following entry if you're on a pc:

beta.mtbachelor.com 208.205.175.252

or, the following if you're on a mac:

beta.mtbachelor.com A 208.205.175.252

anybody got any ideas about the wackiness in mac/ie5?

<tip>

want to build a site under a separate domain name, but don't have access to
have that subdomain created in dns?  if you've got an ip address that the
site is at then you can mimic this subdomain using a hosts file.

pc:
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,52352,pg,2,00.asp

mac:
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,23008,3302404,00.html

</tip>

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 16:17:35 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:17:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <000001c13003$43befdf0$b07ba8c0@toronto.takingitglobal.org>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMAELCFEAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Martin Kuplens-Ewart [martin at takingitglobal.org] suggested:

> -----Original Message-----
> If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
> watermark that would most likely have survived even all that.

I didn't think they were that durable.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 





From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 16:21:37 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:21:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Bob Boisvert wrote on 28/8/01 10:12 pm

>It sounds like you would be better off with a new image. To me, beyond
>recognition means a big blurred mess. If you take an image from a book,
>basically your plagiarizing it to the web. I believe copyright laws say that
>you have to make a specific reference to the origin of the information
>presented, so you would have to give the artists name, the book you got it
>from and any other pertinent information about it.

And as if by magic, there's a new article on the site covering
just this very point:
<http://www.evolt.org/article/thelist/20/15208/index.html>

Specifically:
>Q. If I attribute the work can I use it. 
>
>A. No, unless you have acquired permsission. Attribution does not relieve 
>you from getting permission to use a copyrighted work.

(Nice one, Dean)

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From chris at fuseware.com  Tue Aug 28 16:31:02 2001
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:31:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMAELCFEAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000501c13008$2fa07100$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>

My question was purely theoretical as to what would be covered by copyright,
and what would entail "beyond recognition" as WebMonkey described it.
Ethically, I'm sure nobody on the evolt list would violate copyright law.

But to summarize the wisdom of the list, Webmonkey is full of beans. Using
an image, even modified beyond recognition, is still in violation.


Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Richard H. Morris
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:15 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Cc: martin at takingitglobal.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images


Martin Kuplens-Ewart [martin at takingitglobal.org] suggested:

> -----Original Message-----
> If the original artist was smart, they will have embedded a digimarc
> watermark that would most likely have survived even all that.

I didn't think they were that durable.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From initium at barrysworld.com  Tue Aug 28 16:37:37 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:37:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <002601c13009$31b5ee10$1335a840@home>

nice site. i like the look. :)




From marty at face2interface.com  Tue Aug 28 16:40:25 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:40:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Write Only Perl Question...
In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010828164341.00ab2af0@mail.mail-server.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010828172600.00a22030@pop.ulster.net>

At 04:49 PM 8/28/01 -0400, you wrote:

>if ($verify_new_users && $FORM{'action'} =~ /^\w{2}\d{7}$/) { ...bla bla bla }

Hi Mike.

I love this kind of stuff... is that cuz I'm left handed?

It says, if the variable $verify_new_users is set to a non-zero value (I 
think, I use 'and' myself)

and

if the value of $FORM{'action'} is two alphanumerics followed by 7 numerics 
then bla bla bla

^ means from the beginning
\w means a-z, A-Z, 0-9 (a word char)
{n} means n occurances of
\d means a digit
$ means at the end

RegEx' are admittedly a big pain in the butt to learn, at least I thought 
so. But they can be sooo cool once you get handle on them. Check out the 
Camel Book from O'Reilly when you get a chance.

hth,

Marty


Face 2 Interface Web Solutions
Website Creation Made SIMPL(tm)
http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml




From jamie.bakum at circle.com  Tue Aug 28 16:40:59 2001
From: jamie.bakum at circle.com (Jamie Bakum)
Date: Tue Aug 28 16:40:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B7B18637.5416%jamie.bakum@circle.com>

>Q. If I attribute the work can I use it.
>
>A. No, unless you have acquired permsission. Attribution does not relieve
>you from getting permission to use a copyrighted work.

In most cases - there are exceptions:

US Code 17 - Copyrights - Chapter 1 Sec 107:

"...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction
in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section,
for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
infringement of copyright."

I think some of the confusion may stem from folks who see or hear of this
narrow exception and apply it to everything -

So add "News" to the title of your website and steal away ;-)
---

Jamie





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Tue Aug 28 17:01:53 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:01:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD101@arnold.bedrock.com>

| In most cases - there are exceptions:
| 
| US Code 17 - Copyrights - Chapter 1 Sec 107:
| 
| "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by 
| reproduction
| in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by 
| that section,
| for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, 
| teaching (including
| multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, 
| is not an
| infringement of copyright."

Well,

I had to research this a while ago for a project I was helping... I think I
even wrote a tip about it when I was a newbie on evolt.

Oh! here:
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20010514.htm
l

Really, it is a short summary of the Section of the US Copyright Code on
Fair Use. I was given a lot of help from this site:

http://www.brynmawr.edu/Acads/Langs/llc/copyright.htm

I would agree, this is handled with some truculence in many cases, claiming
"Fair Use" in circumstances which are not covered. I have to really ask
myself in a number of cases, "Hey," I say, "self. Is this _really_ fair?" So
I delete the software and sigh. But it is a settling, acquiescing sigh, one
that breaths of the justice and true fairness, where opportunity and rights,
freedom and sacrifice are the wings of the bird of humanity, giving it
flight through balance and reciprocity.

<indirectly related>
Hey, did anyone notice how hard it is to search the tips? I couldn't find
this knowledge easily and ended up clicking through one link at a time...
</indirectly related>

<rory disposition="late for a meeting!" alt="8o"/>



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 17:03:08 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:03:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Write Only Perl Question...
In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010828164341.00ab2af0@mail.mail-server.com>
References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010828164341.00ab2af0@mail.mail-server.com>
Message-ID: <20010828225017.27865@polytechnic.co.uk>

On Tue, Aug 28, 2001, Mike DeHart said:

>Help!
>
>My Perl is passable at best & when it gets to this elegantly concise sort 
>of stuff, the right hand side that is... I'm totally at a loss!
>
><snippet>
>
>if ($verify_new_users && $FORM{'action'} =~ /^\w{2}\d{7}$/) { ...bla bla
bla }


Well, my perls probably not much better than yours, but I'll take a stab
at it. It looks like it's checking that the var $verify_new_users exists
and that the form action equals:

^ = Anchor the pattern to the beginning os the string
\w{2} = at least two word chars (a-z A-Z 0-9 or _)
\d{7} = at least seven digits
$ = the end of the string

So, action = fo1234567 would be ok, but fool12345 wouldn't.

Thats what I reckon anyway, but you're probably better waiting for a more
qualified answer from someone who knows what they're talking about *:)

G.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk




From gozz at gozz.com  Tue Aug 28 17:08:17 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:08:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] another Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p0431010db7b1bd8971e4@[192.168.1.100]>

What is the liability of the designer/developer when a client 
instructs them to put a copyrighted work on their site that might not 
have permission?

I read http://www.techlaw.com/TextOnly/WhatsNew/copyright.html as 
saying liability it's unavoidable.

Is there anything one can put in a contract to avoid contributory and 
vicarious infringement?
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 827 3963

Humility is no substitute for a good personality.
      - Fran Lebowitz
__________________________________________



From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 17:09:34 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:09:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
Message-ID: <0ac530006221c81PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Jamie Bakum wrote on 28/8/01 10:32 pm

>>Q. If I attribute the work can I use it.
>>
>>A. No, unless you have acquired permsission. Attribution does not relieve
>>you from getting permission to use a copyrighted work.
>
>In most cases - there are exceptions:
>
>US Code 17 - Copyrights - Chapter 1 Sec 107:
>
>"...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction
>in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section,
>for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
>multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
>infringement of copyright."
>
>I think some of the confusion may stem from folks who see or hear of this
>narrow exception and apply it to everything -
>
>So add "News" to the title of your website and steal away ;-)

Fair use is much more tightly defined, and is about using the minimum
to make the teaching/news point. You'd have a harder time with an
image than with text.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From jmlucero at webicarus.com  Tue Aug 28 17:14:16 2001
From: jmlucero at webicarus.com (Juan Manuel Lucero)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:14:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: DHTML animation
References: <20010828055337.9251D520C4@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001501c1300e$368bede0$4e14fea9@juan>

I did it! I almost loose my mind checking that ugly code....

Thank you Michael. I will write you soon because there?s another DHTML
animation coming....
Thanks Rachel for your comments!

Juan Manuel Lucero.
Icarus Dise?os Interactivos
www.webicarus.com


-------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:21:43 +1000
From: Michael Pemberton <mpember at phreaker.net>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] DHTML animation
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org

As someone who has avoided ever using Dreamweaver for DHTML work.  I can
only go off what I do know.

I've used a DHTML api called the DynAPI.  It has animation extensions
and can do all of the stuff your page needs.

I'd be more than willing to give you a hand if you wanted to go down
that path.

To see what I am talking about, check out:
    http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/dynapi/
-------------------------------
Message: 30
From: "Karen Bowen" <karen at miinx.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] DHTML animation
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:30:58 +1000
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org

Hi Juan,

Love your site - your designs are heavenly.

I can see the animation, have looked in both IE 5.0 and NN 4.75 and you're
right, the center animated gif is not working in Netscape.  Not sure why
though - have had a little look at the code but it's long,
DreamWeaver-generated long, so won't go further.

Not having worked with the timeline before, I'm not sure if this is
feasible, but maybe for Netscape you could add another onclick event to each
moving icon, such that when it is clicked on, another small layer opens for
the ani-gif.  (Or maybe you've already done that?!)

Sorry I'm not more help. Good luck with it.

Karen






From bharoche at usa.net  Tue Aug 28 17:22:20 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:22:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Funky Scroll Bar won't go away
References: <OF5B4C92C7.B77FA4B5-ON85256AB6.005D17CE@beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c1300f$6856b480$9865fea9@OFFICE>

Try adding

scroll="no"

within your <body> tag


 -- IE only.


Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From matantisi at matantisi.com  Tue Aug 28 17:22:24 2001
From: matantisi at matantisi.com (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:22:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] another Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <p0431010db7b1bd8971e4@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
 <07d6a4717211c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010828181231.039c1238@127.0.0.1>

At 05:05 PM 8/28/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>What is the liability of the designer/developer when a client instructs 
>them to put a copyrighted work on their site that might not have permission?
>
>I read http://www.techlaw.com/TextOnly/WhatsNew/copyright.html as saying 
>liability it's unavoidable.
>
>Is there anything one can put in a contract to avoid contributory and 
>vicarious infringement?
>--

You can certainly put in a clause that the client warrants that they have 
the necessary permission of the copyright holder to use any content, visual 
or written, which is under copyright, and agree to indemnify and hold you 
harmless in case of an infringement action.  However, when you know that an 
image is copyrighted, and that they don't have permission to use it, I 
don't think that clause will help you, except perhaps in the matter of 
indemnification.  It won't do anything for you vis-a-vis the copyright holder. 




From gnarly at punkass.com  Tue Aug 28 17:38:31 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:38:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAMEAACNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com> <p05001908b7b1a3299370@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <00a701c13012$b6d9dbc0$9865fea9@uridium>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Critique


> >I would like your valuable comments on a site I am currently developing.
>
> This is the one I prefer:
>
> http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/test.html

Seconded. But its just not liquid enough - when fully compressed its still
too wide. But I love the design overall - very business tech.

[Tested in Opera 5.12 / Win2K / 1024x786x32]

Olly.





From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 17:41:34 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:41:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] another Copyright question
Message-ID: <0bfc80138221c81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Erik Mattheis wrote on 28/8/01 11:05 pm

>What is the liability of the designer/developer when a client 
>instructs them to put a copyrighted work on their site that might not 
>have permission?

Contractually, a client cannot demand you perform an illegal act.

So you explain the facts and diplomatically refuse to do it.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 17:52:29 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:52:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
In-Reply-To: <00a701c13012$b6d9dbc0$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMGELGFEAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Olly Hodgson [gnarly at punkass.com] (the guy with the kewl e-mail address)
wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> > http://www.irubin.com/clients/sohar/site/about/test.html
>
> Seconded. But its just not liquid enough - when fully compressed its still
> too wide. But I love the design overall - very business tech.

Agreed. Love the design.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/





From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue Aug 28 18:00:36 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue Aug 28 18:00:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml on mac/ie5
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEHOINAA.jeff@alphashop.net>
Message-ID: <3B8C2146.25573F52@avencom.com>

Jeff Howden wrote:
> listlings,
> 
> thought i'd throw this out to those that've done more mac-centric dhtml than
> i have.
> 
> i'm working on the frontdoor to a site that'll be released later this week
> and i've run up against an odd issue with it when viewed in mac/ie5.  there
> is a green-striped bar across the middle of the design that has dhtml sub
> menus below each one that popup when you mouse over the image.  on the mac
> the alignment is *way* off.
> 
> in order to view the site you'll have to edit your hosts file.  you'll need
> the following entry if you're on a pc:
> 
> beta.mtbachelor.com 208.205.175.252
> 
> or, the following if you're on a mac:
> 
> beta.mtbachelor.com A 208.205.175.252
> 
> anybody got any ideas about the wackiness in mac/ie5?

IE5 is much more strict about how it handles code - particularly if a
DOCTYPE is provided. Do things work better/different without a DOCTYPE?

I've had good luck doing 1 of these:
   -- make sure the code is crystal clear and validated
or -- remove the DOCTYPE.

The latter is what I did on the last site I worked on. i gritted my
teeth and did it. For the next rev though, I have some better code in
place, and I think the doctype will be back.

You may get better feedback if you remove the crazy condition that you
have to edit a hosts file. That's wild.

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From e.j.martin at chello.nl  Tue Aug 28 18:07:57 2001
From: e.j.martin at chello.nl (Edwin Martin)
Date: Tue Aug 28 18:07:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
In-Reply-To: <001701c12fda$8a93c2c0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010829005145.03d25cf0@mail.chello.nl>

At 09:00 28-8-2001 -0700, the head lemur wrote:

>Yet another browser with New Features!!
>
>Yes they implement the dreaded CSS Box Model correctly.

They finally got CSS1 right! It's nice to see Microsoft
play by the rules (at least in this area).

Here is a list of all CSS-changes:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp

Now let's all use the <!DOCTYPE..> in our pages to trigger
W3C-compliancy.

Also interesting:

Turn off the Image toolbar
<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">

Or turn off XP user interface (in Windows XP):
<META HTTP-EQUIV="MSThemeCompatible" Content="No">


Edwin Martin.






From lbenne01 at tufts.edu  Tue Aug 28 18:22:14 2001
From: lbenne01 at tufts.edu (Louis P Bennett)
Date: Tue Aug 28 18:22:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml on mac/ie5
In-Reply-To: <3B8C2146.25573F52@avencom.com>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEHOINAA.jeff@alphashop.net>
 <3B8C2146.25573F52@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <p0510030ab7b1d6d7ef75@[130.64.126.72]>

>IE5 is much more strict about how it handles code - particularly if a
>DOCTYPE is provided. Do things work better/different without a DOCTYPE?
>
>I've had good luck doing 1 of these:
>    -- make sure the code is crystal clear and validated
>or -- remove the DOCTYPE.
>
>The latter is what I did on the last site I worked on. i gritted my
>teeth and did it. For the next rev though, I have some better code in
>place, and I think the doctype will be back.

for some reason msie 5.0/mac likes:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

more than it likes:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
         "http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd">

that has fixed all errors that i've encountered with javascript 
errors being thrown from dhtml.

party party.

-louis

-- 

http://quietcity.org/
quiet thoughts in a loud city



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 18:37:34 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Aug 28 18:37:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml on mac/ie5
In-Reply-To: <p0510030ab7b1d6d7ef75@[130.64.126.72]>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELGEIHINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

louis,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Louis P Bennett
>
> for some reason msie 5.0/mac likes:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
>    "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

hmmm, tried that and it didn't seem to have an effect on it.

guess this means i need to sniff for it server-side and restrict the dhtml
output to that os.  oh well.  not enough time to debug and not a large
enough market share to invest the time.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 18:40:46 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Aug 28 18:40:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml on mac/ie5
In-Reply-To: <3B8C2146.25573F52@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEIHINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

joe,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Joe Crawford
>
> IE5 is much more strict about how it handles code -
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

moreso than win/ie6 and win/nn6?  that's the two browsers developed and
tested on here without hassle (except for the usual annoying lack of
documentation available for nn6 dhtml objects, properties, and methods).

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> particularly if a DOCTYPE is provided. Do things
> work better/different without a DOCTYPE?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

no, tried without a doctype and with a different doctype.  got the same
result each time.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> You may get better feedback if you remove the crazy
> condition that you have to edit a hosts file. That's
> wild.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

wish i could.  the company that hosts the site is pretty unresponsive when
it comes to dns changes.  since the hosts file has been around longer than
dns itself i figured why not.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From nick at triplezero.com.au  Tue Aug 28 19:04:16 2001
From: nick at triplezero.com.au (Nick Boyce)
Date: Tue Aug 28 19:04:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique
Message-ID: <MCEIIGNLLNGPDKLEJINBGEHMCGAA.nick@triplezero.com.au>

Roee,

Looks good, here are my suggestions:

1. Needs more consistancy in colour. The nav bar below the "SoHaR" logo
should probably be the same colour as the logo.

2. I think the news scroller and address details in the left bar should be a
dark grey rather than a black. I like to keep body text as one extreme
(black on white, white on black) and have other elements slightly duller.
This helps focus attention on the content, but it won't make the other
elements any less readable.

Cheers.

Nick

-------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | www.triplezero.com.au




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 28 19:05:32 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Tue Aug 28 19:05:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
In-Reply-To: <3B8BC7D2.4020603@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIKEMDDAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>

> what do you say to people checking out a site like bmwfilms.com - which
> uses applets - when they ask why they can't see certain parts of the
> site anymore? is it fair to *them* to make grandma download and install

I'd tell them that bmwfilms.com chose to use applets with no guarantee that
users would be able to use them, or had them enabled.

AFAIK, installing java is probably also optional with Netscape or Mozilla,
right?

If not, is it fair to consumers that they don't have the choice?

> a ~5Mb JVM? is it fair to consumers? not really on both counts, which is
> why all this "We're doing whats best for consumers" spin is BS. :)

It's fair to consumers. If you want pluginX, go and download it. I certainly
don't want it in there by default.

Have you seen how much shit applets cause on a Mac? Dumping the support is
best for consumers in that case. ;)



isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From redwolf at whitewolf.com.au  Tue Aug 28 19:25:32 2001
From: redwolf at whitewolf.com.au (Red Wolf @ Whitewolf)
Date: Tue Aug 28 19:25:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 Oddities
References: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A24A2@SERVER1>
Message-ID: <3B8C372C.8010508@whitewolf.com.au>

http://www.redwolf.com.au/fiction/

I'm still getting CSS bugs on my site. The title is partially 
duplicating on the next line. ANyone seen this beofre or have a fix?

IE6 has carried through this bug from its second beta, as this wasn't 
happening with the initial beta release. And Mozilla has to probs 
displaying the page correctly.

Red Wolf


-- 
Jodi Red Wolf                           redwolf at whitewolf.com.au

Whitewolf                                             ____/\
51-55 Mountain Street Ultimo NSW 2007           _____/_ \ ~ \\
Ph: +61 2 9211 9357                             \/ ..   /     \
Fx: +61 2 9211 9376                              \_____~\     \\
Mb: +61 4 1380 9653                                   \  \// \\\




From paul at wishlist.com.au  Tue Aug 28 19:45:40 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 19:45:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site Critique)
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE3E7@coen.wishlist.com.au>

Wade Armstrong [mailto:wade at runstrong.com] wrote:
> I think the fixed design works a little better... line 
> lengths get a bit
> long past 1024x768 on the liquid design.

Really? I've never understood this argument. People here use it all the 
time: "readability studies show that line lengths over [x] words are
hard to read, we should shrink everything to a fixed pixel width."

No, you shouldn't. I run my screen at 1280x1024; I have my browser window
maxxed. If I found it hard to read, I would change my resolution or
resize my window. My having a maxxed browser window at that res, perhaps
indicates I PREFER that line length?

I am strongly in favour of letting the user have the choice. The user 
will consider the readability vs. visible information tradeoff, and 
form their own opinions. I hate it when sites take up 600 pixels in the 
middle of my screen, leaving an acre of white space. If I wanted that, 
I would shrink my window and set a white desktop background.

Liquid designs are far superior for usability, in my opinion.

Here endeth the rant. 

Cheers,

Paul.





From gnarly at gmx.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 20:31:25 2001
From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Aug 28 20:31:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
Message-ID: <018901c1302a$e6afdfd0$9865fea9@uridium>

Hi,

Whenever I create a PDF using MS Word 2k and the Acrobat PDFWriter 4 printer
driver, I find all my bullet points have turned to question marks in the
PDF. Anybody know of a solution to this irritating little problem?

Im on Win2K if it makes any difference.

TIA, Cheers,

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 28 20:31:57 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Aug 28 20:31:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site Critique)
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE3E7@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <3B8C0CF5.22800.46C0950@localhost>

> From: Paul Cowan <paul at wishlist.com.au>
[...] 
> Really? I've never understood this argument. People here use it all
> the time: "readability studies show that line lengths over [x] words
> are hard to read, we should shrink everything to a fixed pixel width."
> 
> No, you shouldn't. I run my screen at 1280x1024; I have my browser
> window maxxed. If I found it hard to read, I would change my
> resolution or resize my window. My having a maxxed browser window at
> that res, perhaps indicates I PREFER that line length?

oddly, and i don't disagree with you, but there are studies i've seen, 
and i've seen this in my own testing, where the user is actually not 
always right about what's easier to use/read...

line lengths are a strange thing... people have reported longer lines 
as easier to read, but have shown in reading comprehension and 
speed tests that it's not the case... i think it's the perception that 
it's easier not to change the window size for every site than to 
muddle through long text, which is an aggregate speed benefit (if 
any), but not reflected on a per-site basis...

anyway, more of a musing than anything, since i can't find that 
fscking report now...

> I am strongly in favour of letting the user have the choice. The user
> will consider the readability vs. visible information tradeoff, and
> form their own opinions. I hate it when sites take up 600 pixels in
> the middle of my screen, leaving an acre of white space. If I wanted
> that, I would shrink my window and set a white desktop background.

agreed... leave the user to decide...

> Liquid designs are far superior for usability, in my opinion.

+1



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 20:37:55 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Tue Aug 28 20:37:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site Critique)
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE3E7@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <20010829013415.43229.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

Acutally, forget the usability studies... line length is a tenet of typographic design
that predates electronic display and the internet by a couple of hundred years. Shorter
lines give the eye a way to keep their place in the copy when wrapping to the next line.
Same holds for right- or full-justified copy... without a righthand rag, it's much harder
to keep one's place in the copy.

But none of this really speaks to a user's preferences, does it? I guess in a perfect
world that truly followed craftsmen's rules, every website in the world would be black
text on white background with red for emphasis. And that's not gonna happen, is it?

/rg

--- Paul Cowan <paul at wishlist.com.au> wrote:
> Wade Armstrong [mailto:wade at runstrong.com] wrote:
> > I think the fixed design works a little better... line 
> > lengths get a bit
> > long past 1024x768 on the liquid design.
> 
> Really? I've never understood this argument. People here use it all the 
> time: "readability studies show that line lengths over [x] words are
> hard to read, we should shrink everything to a fixed pixel width."
> 
> No, you shouldn't. I run my screen at 1280x1024; I have my browser window
> maxxed. If I found it hard to read, I would change my resolution or
> resize my window. My having a maxxed browser window at that res, perhaps
> indicates I PREFER that line length?
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com  Tue Aug 28 21:47:44 2001
From: mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com (arch)
Date: Tue Aug 28 21:47:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
Message-ID: <20010829024250.GBPI7831.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com>

Hi Olly:

We had similar problems with one exception - used PDF Writer for Acrobat
3. It worked fine in Win95/98/NT4. But after we migrated to Win2k, similar
"funny" things started to happen when we tried to print documents with
special characters to PDF. There were several support articles at www.adobe.com
describing fixes for this problem... but for some reason it didn't work
in our case.

Anyway, then we upgraded our Acrobat to version 5 and it fixed the problem.

Hope this helps,

----------------------------- 
::: Arthur Chidlovski :::
Digital Me-Mix in the Browser
http://www.chidlovski.com/


---- "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Whenever I create a PDF using MS Word 2k and the Acrobat PDFWriter
> 4 printer
> driver, I find all my bullet points have turned to question marks in
> the
> PDF. Anybody know of a solution to this irritating little problem?
> 
> Im on Win2K if it makes any difference.
> 
> TIA, Cheers,
> 
> Olly
> - www.gnarly.f2s.com -
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 

___________________________________________________________________
To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax,
all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com




From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 22:02:32 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 22:02:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site Critique)
References: <20010829013415.43229.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001701c13036$6b1e4e40$0300a8c0@Home>

Hi all,
I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to appear as
buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have tried with no
success.
Regards
Gary





From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Tue Aug 28 22:13:24 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Tue Aug 28 22:13:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS class for Links (was: RE Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site Critique))
In-Reply-To: <001701c13036$6b1e4e40$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNCEKKEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Hi Gary,

For future reference you should edit the subject when changing topic!

However, you can set classes for links, as follows:

In the css

a.mail {color:#etc; other style declarations}

and in the HTML

<a class="mail" href="mailto: foo at bar">This is a mail link</a>

you can also set the hover, visited and link states in the css

a.mail:hover {styles}

hth

Mark

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
>Sent: 29 August 2001 10:58
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site
>Critique)
>
>
>Hi all,
>I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
>butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to appear as
>buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
>Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have tried with no
>success.
>Regards
>Gary


This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From garizpe at network.com.mx  Tue Aug 28 22:31:44 2001
From: garizpe at network.com.mx (Gustavo Arizpe)
Date: Tue Aug 28 22:31:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <002001c13043$0b21ef80$0100000a@area>

I read somewhere about a download that includes MySQL, PHP and phpMyAdmin,
ready for installing on Windows. Can anyone point me to this download?
Thanks,

Gustavo




From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 22:45:30 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 22:45:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS class for Links 
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNCEKKEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <001d01c1303c$6acbd9c0$0300a8c0@Home>

Mmmm. I tried that. But in IE 5.5 it doesn't work. The mail link works, but
inherits the properties of the standard link that has ben set. I have played
with the sequence in which they appear to no avail.
Am I missing something really basic here?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:10 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS class for Links (was: RE Line lengths + screen
sizes (was RE: Site Critique))


> Hi Gary,
>
> For future reference you should edit the subject when changing topic!
>
> However, you can set classes for links, as follows:
>
> In the css
>
> a.mail {color:#etc; other style declarations}
>
> and in the HTML
>
> <a class="mail" href="mailto: foo at bar">This is a mail link</a>
>
> you can also set the hover, visited and link states in the css
>
> a.mail:hover {styles}
>
> hth
>
> Mark
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> >[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
> >Sent: 29 August 2001 10:58
> >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >Subject: Re: [thelist] Line lengths + screen sizes (was RE: Site
> >Critique)
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
> >butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to appear as
> >buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
> >Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have tried with no
> >success.
> >Regards
> >Gary
>
>
> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
similar in this email or any attachment.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Aug 28 23:00:39 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:00:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
In-Reply-To: <002001c13043$0b21ef80$0100000a@area>
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828205413.01b26380@baratta.com>

At 09:28 PM 8/28/2001, you wrote:
>I read somewhere about a download that includes MySQL, PHP and phpMyAdmin,
>ready for installing on Windows. Can anyone point me to this download?


PHP Triad.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9325&release_id=38192

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From feed at chicken3.com  Tue Aug 28 23:03:24 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:03:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
Message-ID: <200108290403.f7T43NE06744@leo.evolt.org>

Sounds like you are having post script errors with your file/printer 
PPD/fonts setup...

You might try some of these:

Loose the bullets, or

try a different font, or

if you have Distiller, or can purchase it, print your file as a post script
EPS, open it in Distiller and save it as a PDF file.

Good Luck!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at gmx.co.uk>
>To: "theList [evolt.org]" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
>Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 6:35 PM
>

> Hi,
>
> Whenever I create a PDF using MS Word 2k and the Acrobat PDFWriter 4 printer
> driver, I find all my bullet points have turned to question marks in the
> PDF. Anybody know of a solution to this irritating little problem?
>
> Im on Win2K if it makes any difference.
>
> TIA, Cheers,
>
> Olly
> - www.gnarly.f2s.com -
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:04:03 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:04:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS class for Links
In-Reply-To: <001d01c1303c$6acbd9c0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNKEKLEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

The styles applied by the CSS stylesheets are cascading.  Therefore if you
set a style on A, and then apply styles to A.mail, the A.mail styles are
additive.

That is, A styles will be applied + a.mail styles will be applied, and
A.mail styles will override A styles where both are defined.  However, non
overridden A styles will still apply to A.mail.

EG

A {color:red; border: 2px solid blue}

A.mail {color:green}

and this HTML

<a class="mail">link</a>

will result in a green link with a 2px solid blue border

Could this be the problem you are having?  Maybe the underlying A style
definitions in your stylesheet are not being overriden by declarations in
A.mail?

hth

MarkC

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
>Sent: 29 August 2001 11:41
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS class for Links
>
>
>Mmmm. I tried that. But in IE 5.5 it doesn't work. The mail link works, but
>inherits the properties of the standard link that has ben set. I
>have played
>with the sequence in which they appear to no avail.
>Am I missing something really basic here?
>Regards
>Gary
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:10 AM
>Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS class for Links (was: RE Line lengths + screen
>sizes (was RE: Site Critique))
>
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> For future reference you should edit the subject when changing topic!
>>
>> However, you can set classes for links, as follows:
>>
>> In the css
>>
>> a.mail {color:#etc; other style declarations}
>>
>> and in the HTML
>>
>> <a class="mail" href="mailto: foo at bar">This is a mail link</a>
>>
>> you can also set the hover, visited and link states in the css
>>
>> a.mail:hover {styles}
>>
>> hth
>>
>> Mark


This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 23:10:38 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:10:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS class for Links
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNKEKLEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <003f01c1303f$f01ba120$0300a8c0@Home>

So it's the sequence that they appear in the sheet right?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:00 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS class for Links


> The styles applied by the CSS stylesheets are cascading.  Therefore if you
> set a style on A, and then apply styles to A.mail, the A.mail styles are
> additive.
>
> That is, A styles will be applied + a.mail styles will be applied, and
> A.mail styles will override A styles where both are defined.  However, non
> overridden A styles will still apply to A.mail.
>
> EG
>
> A {color:red; border: 2px solid blue}
>
> A.mail {color:green}
>
> and this HTML
>
> <a class="mail">link</a>
>
> will result in a green link with a 2px solid blue border
>
> Could this be the problem you are having?  Maybe the underlying A style
> definitions in your stylesheet are not being overriden by declarations in
> A.mail?
>
> hth
>
> MarkC
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> >[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
> >Sent: 29 August 2001 11:41
> >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS class for Links
> >
> >
> >Mmmm. I tried that. But in IE 5.5 it doesn't work. The mail link works,
but
> >inherits the properties of the standard link that has ben set. I
> >have played
> >with the sequence in which they appear to no avail.
> >Am I missing something really basic here?
> >Regards
> >Gary
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
> >To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:10 AM
> >Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS class for Links (was: RE Line lengths + screen
> >sizes (was RE: Site Critique))
> >
> >
> >> Hi Gary,
> >>
> >> For future reference you should edit the subject when changing topic!
> >>
> >> However, you can set classes for links, as follows:
> >>
> >> In the css
> >>
> >> a.mail {color:#etc; other style declarations}
> >>
> >> and in the HTML
> >>
> >> <a class="mail" href="mailto: foo at bar">This is a mail link</a>
> >>
> >> you can also set the hover, visited and link states in the css
> >>
> >> a.mail:hover {styles}
> >>
> >> hth
> >>
> >> Mark
>
>
> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
similar in this email or any attachment.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From todd_tyler at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 23:11:24 2001
From: todd_tyler at yahoo.com (Todd Tyler)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:11:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
In-Reply-To: <002001c13043$0b21ef80$0100000a@area>
Message-ID: <000b01c1303f$b9565400$f900a8c0@nash1.tn.home.com>

The only package I'm aware of is EasyPHP, which includes all three
products you mentioned, plus Apache. The latest version is 1.5 and can
be downloaded from:

http://www.easyphp.org/telechargements/dn.php?F=easyphp1-5.php3


Todd

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Gustavo Arizpe
 
I read somewhere about a download that includes MySQL, PHP and
phpMyAdmin,
ready for installing on Windows. Can anyone point me to this download?
 


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 23:16:15 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:16:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
Message-ID: <004c01c13040$b87fada0$0300a8c0@Home>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Mathews" <cameron at truckpoetry.com>
To: <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: Re: CSS links


> <Cannot post to list - feel free to forward to list>
> 
> I have no problems with classes for <a>
> 
> Try this
> 
> a.blue:link{
> color: blue;
> }
> 
> a.red:link{
> color: red;
> }
> 
> 
> Cm
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> To: <webprog at topica.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:00 PM
> Subject: CSS links
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> > I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
> > butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to appear as
> > buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
> > Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have tried with no
> > success.
> > Regards
> > Gary
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > DayTips.com - Sign Up Today and Receive FREE GIFTS
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 




From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:23:47 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:23:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS class for Links
In-Reply-To: <003f01c1303f$f01ba120$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEKMEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

yep, later definitions override earlier ones



>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
>Sent: 29 August 2001 12:06
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS class for Links
>
>
>So it's the sequence that they appear in the sheet right?
>Regards
>Gary
>

This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 23:24:58 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:24:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
References: <004c01c13040$b87fada0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <005901c13041$ed1701c0$0300a8c0@Home>

This is the first style in the external sheet,
a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset; width:
85px; height: 25px}

a:link {color: blue; border-style: outset; width: 85px; height: 25px}
And this is the second entry,
a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial}

a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
font-weight: bold}

a.mail:link {color: blue}

And this is the HTML;
<a class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk" TABINDEX="14"
name="email link">The
          Secretariat</A>

Yet it still won't play. Have I  missed something?
Regards
Gary



<A class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk"
TABINDEX="14">The
          Secretariat</A>



----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:11 AM
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Mathews" <cameron at truckpoetry.com>
> To: <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:30 AM
> Subject: Re: CSS links
>
>
> > <Cannot post to list - feel free to forward to list>
> >
> > I have no problems with classes for <a>
> >
> > Try this
> >
> > a.blue:link{
> > color: blue;
> > }
> >
> > a.red:link{
> > color: red;
> > }
> >
> >
> > Cm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> > To: <webprog at topica.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:00 PM
> > Subject: CSS links
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > > I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
> > > butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to appear as
> > > buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
> > > Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have tried with no
> > > success.
> > > Regards
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > DayTips.com - Sign Up Today and Receive FREE GIFTS
> > >  SIGN UP TODAY --->> http://www.daytips.com
> > > <a href="http://www.daytips.com">AOL USERS</a>
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/webprog
> > > unsubscribe: send blank email to: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
> > >
> > > ==^================================================================
> > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8RvT.bAgcaU
> > > Or send an email To: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
> > > This email was sent to: info at mfsteams.com
> > >
> > > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
> > > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:30:29 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:30:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
In-Reply-To: <005901c13041$ed1701c0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNEEKNEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Gary,

Tell me what you want to happen for the normal and mail links and I'll come
back to you.

Mark

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
>Sent: 29 August 2001 12:20
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
>
>
>This is the first style in the external sheet,
>a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset; width:
>85px; height: 25px}
>
>a:link {color: blue; border-style: outset; width: 85px; height: 25px}
>And this is the second entry,
>a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial}
>
>a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
>font-weight: bold}
>
>a.mail:link {color: blue}
>
>And this is the HTML;
><a class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk" TABINDEX="14"
>name="email link">The
>          Secretariat</A>
>
>Yet it still won't play. Have I  missed something?
>Regards
>Gary
>
>
>
><A class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk"
>TABINDEX="14">The
>          Secretariat</A>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:11 AM
>Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cameron Mathews" <cameron at truckpoetry.com>
>> To: <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: CSS links
>>
>>
>> > <Cannot post to list - feel free to forward to list>
>> >
>> > I have no problems with classes for <a>
>> >
>> > Try this
>> >
>> > a.blue:link{
>> > color: blue;
>> > }
>> >
>> > a.red:link{
>> > color: red;
>> > }
>> >
>> >
>> > Cm
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
>> > To: <webprog at topica.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:00 PM
>> > Subject: CSS links
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > > I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear like
>> > > butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to
>appear as
>> > > buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered differently.
>> > > Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have
>tried with no
>> > > success.
>> > > Regards
>> > > Gary
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > DayTips.com - Sign Up Today and Receive FREE GIFTS
>> > >  SIGN UP TODAY --->> http://www.daytips.com
>> > > <a href="http://www.daytips.com">AOL USERS</a>
>> > >
>> > > ----------
>> > > list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/webprog
>> > > unsubscribe: send blank email to: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
>> > >
>> > > ==^================================================================
>> > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8RvT.bAgcaU
>> > > Or send an email To: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
>> > > This email was sent to: info at mfsteams.com
>> > >
>> > > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
>> > > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
>> > > ==^================================================================
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> For unsubscribe and other options, including
>> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


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From paul at wishlist.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:50:50 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:50:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE3FD@coen.wishlist.com.au>

Gary Finnigan [mailto:gfinnigan at talk21.com] wrote:
<snip CSS>
> And this is the HTML;
> <a class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk" TABINDEX="14"
> name="email link">The Secretariat</A>
> 
> Yet it still won't play. Have I  missed something?

This works fine for me (IE 5.5, Win2000).

The link has :
	border: outset 		(from a:link)
	color: blue	   		(from a.mail:link)
	text-decoration: none	(from a.mail)
	font-family: arial	(from a.mail)

When hovered:
	border: outset 		(STILL from a:link)
	color: #ccffCC   		(from a.mail:hover)
	background: #00d088	(from a.mail:hover)
	text-decoration: none	(still from a.mail)
	font-family: arial	(still from a.mail)
	font-size: 120%		(from a.mail:hover)
	font-weight: bold		(from a.mail:hover)	

In other words, exactly what the style sheet says. The hovered link 
changes foreground and background colours, and gets bigger and bold,
but keeps borders & fonts.

If you want the border etc. to go away, you will need to override them
in the more specific declaration.

What problems are you seeing? Try declaring a :visited as well, by the way.
Sometimes that will catch you up.


Cheers,

Paul





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Tue Aug 28 23:56:35 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Tue Aug 28 23:56:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNEEKNEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <006c01c13046$52f4bf60$0300a8c0@Home>

For normal links I want the button effect, seen on www.onevoice.co.uk
But for mail links and page anchors etc, I just want the textual link.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Fw: CSS links


> Gary,
>
> Tell me what you want to happen for the normal and mail links and I'll
come
> back to you.
>
> Mark
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> >[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
> >Sent: 29 August 2001 12:20
> >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >Subject: Re: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
> >
> >
> >This is the first style in the external sheet,
> >a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset;
width:
> >85px; height: 25px}
> >
> >a:link {color: blue; border-style: outset; width: 85px; height: 25px}
> >And this is the second entry,
> >a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial}
> >
> >a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
> >font-weight: bold}
> >
> >a.mail:link {color: blue}
> >
> >And this is the HTML;
> ><a class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk"
TABINDEX="14"
> >name="email link">The
> >          Secretariat</A>
> >
> >Yet it still won't play. Have I  missed something?
> >Regards
> >Gary
> >
> >
> >
> ><A class="mail" href="mailto:onevoicenetwork at onevoice.co.uk"
> >TABINDEX="14">The
> >          Secretariat</A>
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> >To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:11 AM
> >Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
> >
> >
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cameron Mathews" <cameron at truckpoetry.com>
> >> To: <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:30 AM
> >> Subject: Re: CSS links
> >>
> >>
> >> > <Cannot post to list - feel free to forward to list>
> >> >
> >> > I have no problems with classes for <a>
> >> >
> >> > Try this
> >> >
> >> > a.blue:link{
> >> > color: blue;
> >> > }
> >> >
> >> > a.red:link{
> >> > color: red;
> >> > }
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cm
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Gary Finnigan" <gfinnigan at talk21.com>
> >> > To: <webprog at topica.com>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:00 PM
> >> > Subject: CSS links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > > I have an external style sheet that makes all of my links appear
like
> >> > > butons. This looks great but I don't want all of my links to
> >appear as
> >> > > buttons. Email links for instance I want to be rendered
differently.
> >> > > Is there any way to make a class for the <a> tag? I have
> >tried with no
> >> > > success.
> >> > > Regards
> >> > > Gary
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > DayTips.com - Sign Up Today and Receive FREE GIFTS
> >> > >  SIGN UP TODAY --->> http://www.daytips.com
> >> > > <a href="http://www.daytips.com">AOL USERS</a>
> >> > >
> >> > > ----------
> >> > > list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/webprog
> >> > > unsubscribe: send blank email to: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
> >> > >
> >> > > ==^================================================================
> >> > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8RvT.bAgcaU
> >> > > Or send an email To: webprog-unsubscribe at topica.com
> >> > > This email was sent to: info at mfsteams.com
> >> > >
> >> > > T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
> >> > > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
> >> > > ==^================================================================
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------
> >> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
>
> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
similar in this email or any attachment.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
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> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From paul at wishlist.com.au  Wed Aug 29 00:03:19 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:03:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE402@coen.wishlist.com.au>

> For normal links I want the button effect, seen on www.onevoice.co.uk
> But for mail links and page anchors etc, I just want the textual link.

Then your A.mail declaration needs to include:
	border: none
etc. In other words, everything from the "normal" A declaration that you
DON'T want, you need to explicitly override.

Cheers,

Paul



From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Wed Aug 29 00:14:58 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:14:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
In-Reply-To: <005901c13041$ed1701c0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNGEKPEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Hi Gary,


I've put together the css declarations to give you the effect you want.  I
was going to show what your stylesheet was doing to the relevant link
classes, but Paul Cowan's note did that more clearly than I was trying to!

To get the effect you want, this works on ie55win95:

a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset;
width:85px; height: 25px;}

a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; width:auto;
height:auto;border:none;}

a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
font-weight: bold}

hth
Mark


This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Wed Aug 29 00:20:44 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:20:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
References: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE402@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <009201c13049$afeee760$0300a8c0@Home>

I should have known it would be something straightforward! 'The only easy
answers are the ones you know the answers to.' Chris Tarrant, to a dolt who
didn't know the Queen's family name.
Cheers
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Cowan" <paul at wishlist.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Fw: CSS links


>
> > For normal links I want the button effect, seen on www.onevoice.co.uk
> > But for mail links and page anchors etc, I just want the textual link.
>
> Then your A.mail declaration needs to include:
> border: none
> etc. In other words, everything from the "normal" A declaration that you
> DON'T want, you need to explicitly override.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Wed Aug 29 00:20:52 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:20:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNGEKPEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <009901c13049$b49e3ea0$0300a8c0@Home>

I appreciate the help if you appreciate my failings!
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:11 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Fw: CSS links


> Hi Gary,
>
>
> I've put together the css declarations to give you the effect you want.  I
> was going to show what your stylesheet was doing to the relevant link
> classes, but Paul Cowan's note did that more clearly than I was trying to!
>
> To get the effect you want, this works on ie55win95:
>
> a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset;
> width:85px; height: 25px;}
>
> a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; width:auto;
> height:auto;border:none;}
>
> a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
> font-weight: bold}
>
> hth
> Mark
>
>
> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
similar in this email or any attachment.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From paul at wishlist.com.au  Wed Aug 29 00:29:42 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:29:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE403@coen.wishlist.com.au>

> 'The only easy
> answers are the ones you know the answers to.' Chris Tarrant, 
> to a dolt who
> didn't know the Queen's family name.

I assume you mean this Chris Tarrant:
	http://media.guardian.co.uk/top100/story/0,10430,512853,00.html

and not this strapping young superstar:
	http://www.afl.com.au/players/player_profile_980023.htm

which is who _I_ immediately thought of, immediately wondering why on
earth he would say such a thing.

That calls for a:

<tip type="Requirements Gathering" author="Paul Cowan">
Working in an environment where no-one even knows what requirements 
documents look like (e.g. most web sites)? If someone tries to spec
a job, and you KNOW that the spec is so vague they're not going to
like the end result, or you can see flaws with the way it's going to
work, get them to do mock-up screenshots. Nothing fancy - crayon on
butcher's paper is quite acceptable. The act of thinking through
page flow often lets people see what's wrong with their off-the-cuff
"spec", and sometimes even think of a better way to do something,
without you banging your head against a wall for hours. Mockups
can be a developer's best friend.
</tip>




From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Wed Aug 29 00:33:55 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:33:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
References: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB711AE403@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <00b401c1304b$84f1bcc0$0300a8c0@Home>

In my class I call this storyboarding. The students have consistently said
that they benefit from this procedure. Also, if drawn right, code such as
nested tables almost writes itself. Great observation, I wish I'd thought of
passing that on.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Cowan" <paul at wishlist.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Fw: CSS links


>
> > 'The only easy
> > answers are the ones you know the answers to.' Chris Tarrant,
> > to a dolt who
> > didn't know the Queen's family name.
>
> I assume you mean this Chris Tarrant:
> http://media.guardian.co.uk/top100/story/0,10430,512853,00.html
>
> and not this strapping young superstar:
> http://www.afl.com.au/players/player_profile_980023.htm
>
> which is who _I_ immediately thought of, immediately wondering why on
> earth he would say such a thing.
>
> That calls for a:
>
> <tip type="Requirements Gathering" author="Paul Cowan">
> Working in an environment where no-one even knows what requirements
> documents look like (e.g. most web sites)? If someone tries to spec
> a job, and you KNOW that the spec is so vague they're not going to
> like the end result, or you can see flaws with the way it's going to
> work, get them to do mock-up screenshots. Nothing fancy - crayon on
> butcher's paper is quite acceptable. The act of thinking through
> page flow often lets people see what's wrong with their off-the-cuff
> "spec", and sometimes even think of a better way to do something,
> without you banging your head against a wall for hours. Mockups
> can be a developer's best friend.
> </tip>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Wed Aug 29 00:35:36 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Wed Aug 29 00:35:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
In-Reply-To: <009901c13049$b49e3ea0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIELAEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Nobody's perfect........especially me!

happy to help.

Mark

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Finnigan
>Sent: 29 August 2001 13:16
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
>
>
>I appreciate the help if you appreciate my failings!
>Regards
>Gary
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:11 AM
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Fw: CSS links
>
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>>
>> I've put together the css declarations to give you the effect
>you want.  I
>> was going to show what your stylesheet was doing to the relevant link
>> classes, but Paul Cowan's note did that more clearly than I was
>trying to!
>>
>> To get the effect you want, this works on ie55win95:
>>
>> a {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; border-style: outset;
>> width:85px; height: 25px;}
>>
>> a.mail {text-decoration: none; font-family: arial; width:auto;
>> height:auto;border:none;}
>>
>> a.mail:hover {color: #ccffcc; background: #00d088; font-size: 120%;
>> font-weight: bold}
>>
>> hth
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
>information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
>not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
>> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
>similar in this email or any attachment.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> For unsubscribe and other options, including
>> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From chrisg at gsnet.com  Wed Aug 29 01:16:56 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Wed Aug 29 01:16:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?
Message-ID: <B7B1E3CA.5BA4%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From '95-'97 ??

Thanks,

Chris.




From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 01:41:36 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 01:41:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font's Utility...
Message-ID: <200108290641.f7T6fZE20157@leo.evolt.org>

Does anyone out there know if there is a fonts utility (MAC) that will let
you browse through fonts on a CD outside of your fonts folder?

I have Font Viewer, but that only previews fonts in your fonts folder...any
help would be great!

--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com



From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 29 01:53:01 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 29 01:53:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font's Utility...
In-Reply-To: <200108290641.f7T6fZE20157@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200108290641.f7T6fZE20157@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05001900b7b240698960@[24.43.66.191]>

>  Does anyone out there know if there is a fonts utility
>  (MAC) that will let you browse through fonts on a CD
>  outside of your fonts folder?

>  I have Font Viewer, but that only previews fonts in your
>  fonts folder...any help would be great!


FontCat:
http://www.ksoft.net/fc_home.htm


-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 02:06:19 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 02:06:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font's Utility...
Message-ID: <200108290706.f7T76IE21824@leo.evolt.org>

Frank, Thank You!  This is exactly what I was looking for!


-- 
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Frank <framar at interlog.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Font's Utility...
>Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 11:48 PM
>

> http://www.ksoft.net/fc_home.htm



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 02:26:11 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Aug 29 02:26:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fonts Utility...
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b7b240698960@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <20010829072124.81517.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

I use FontGander, you could also search at http://www.versiontracker.com with the
keywords "font browse"

/rg


--- Frank <framar at interlog.com> wrote:
> >  Does anyone out there know if there is a fonts utility
> >  (MAC) that will let you browse through fonts on a CD
> >  outside of your fonts folder?
> 
> >  I have Font Viewer, but that only previews fonts in your
> >  fonts folder...any help would be great!
> 
> 
> FontCat:
> http://www.ksoft.net/fc_home.htm
> 
> 
> -- 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From dante at vianet.net.au  Wed Aug 29 02:42:39 2001
From: dante at vianet.net.au (dante)
Date: Wed Aug 29 02:42:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Error in Dynamic Select Script
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIELAEAAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <022501c1305d$8a7ca1c0$fd01a8c0@dante>

G'Day All,

I've been using some javascript to fill in a select menu
& I've found a bug (well, sort of).
The code works fine except the value of the selected option is being sent
with my form as a boolean from an array.
I'm not sure where I got the script from, which makes it difficult to get
assistance in modifying it.
Can anyone see how I can fix this?

The header code:
-----------------------------------------------------------
var xStyle=new Array(2);;
var xVariant=new Array(5);;

//define objects for the main list
function ListItem(nvalue,description){
 //function for defining the elements of the main list
 this.nvalue=nvalue;
 this.description=description;
}

//define objects for the dependent list
function ListSubItem(category,nvalue,description){
 //function for defining the elements of the xVariants
 this.category=category;
 this.nvalue=nvalue;
 this.description=description;
}

function PrepareData(){
// the function will fill in 2 arrays.  The function can be filled in ASP
// so the values from the array will come from the database

xStyle[0]=new ListItem(0,'Fiction');
xStyle[1]=new ListItem(1,'Non-Fiction');

//Fill the values of the second list
//The first parameter is the category, the second is the value to be
returned
//from this selection and the third one is the text that appears in the
//combo box
xVariant[0]=new ListSubItem(0,'Book','Book');
xVariant[1]=new ListSubItem(0,'Graphic Novel','Graphic Novel');
xVariant[2]=new ListSubItem(0,'Magazine','Magazine');
xVariant[3]=new ListSubItem(1,'Book','Book');
xVariant[4]=new ListSubItem(1,'Magazine','Magazine');
}

function reFillList(){
 var selValue;
 var nOption;
 selValue=upLoadLibrary.xStyle.value;
 // alert('Selected value=' +selValue);
 // clear the actual list by setting its length to 0
 upLoadLibrary.xVariant.length=0
 for (var i=0; i < xVariant.length;i++){
 //fill the box with the values corresponding to
 //the category in the first box
 if (xVariant[i].category==selValue) {
  nOption=upLoadLibrary.xVariant.length;
  upLoadLibrary.xVariant.options[nOption]=new
Option(xVariant[i].description,xVariant[i].nvalue);
 }
 }
 upLoadLibrary.xVariant.options[0].selected=true;
}
-----------------------------------------------------------
The xStyle select code:
-----------------------------------------------------------
  <script language=javascript>
  <!--
  var page=""
  var i;
  // call the function that fills in the arrays
  // so we'll use them to fill the select
  PrepareData();
  page+='<select name="xStyle" style="border:Opx; font-size:10px;"
onChange="reFillList()">';
   for (i=0;i<xStyle.length;i++)
    {
   page+='<option value="'+ xStyle[i].nvalue +'"';
    if (i==0) { page+=' selected '; }
   page+='>' + xStyle[i].description + '</option>';
     }
   page+='</select>';
  document.write(page);
  //-->
 </script>
-----------------------------------------------------------
The xVariant select code:
-----------------------------------------------------------
<select name="xVariant" style="border:0px; font-size:10px;">
  <script language=javascript>
  <!--
  // since we have selected the first value in the main list,
  // we have to fill this list
   reFillList();
  //-->
  </script>
 </select>
-----------------------------------------------------------

Thanks,
            dante
            Perth, Western Australia
            dante at vianet.net.au
            www.vianet.net.au/~dante




From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 03:03:43 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 03:03:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
Message-ID: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>

Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there has
been a ton of tech talk today.

The Situation

Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed built.
But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a great
designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
couldn't do it either."

Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to and
ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one" meal?
True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
the point.

The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this were
my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
from my file here and......."

Any thoughts/comments/experiences?


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com



From initium at barrysworld.com  Wed Aug 29 03:11:34 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Wed Aug 29 03:11:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
References: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000a01c13061$95a453a0$89aaa440@home>

you don't know what i'd give to be in a situation like that... i don't get
to do what i enjoy for a living, because i can't find any firms that will
hire anyone under 18. life is a bitch.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
To: "The List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:59 AM
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?


> Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there
has
> been a ton of tech talk today.
>
> The Situation
>
> Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed
built.
> But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
> and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
> two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a
great
> designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
> want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
> couldn't do it either."
>
> Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
> over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to
and
> ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one"
meal?
> True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
> the point.
>
> The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
> everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
> about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this
were
> my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
> number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
> from my file here and......."
>
> Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
>
>
> --
> Eric Langlitz
> Principal
> Chicken3
> 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> Vancouver, WA 98661
> 360.906.7195
> feed at chicken3.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 03:21:26 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Aug 29 03:21:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c13061$95a453a0$89aaa440@home>
Message-ID: <20010829081640.88883.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>

I absolutely do *not* do work on spec. OK, maybe I did 12 years ago when I was doing
letterheads to pay tuition. But it's degrading of our trade. You go to any other
professional and you judge their worthiness on their solutions to others' problems,
right? So why not design? I'd say stick to your guns, show how you used design to solve
other communication problems (read: before and after) and at most, deliver a written
proposal as to how you'd approach their needs.

My $.02

/rg


--- bull3t <initium at barrysworld.com> wrote:
> you don't know what i'd give to be in a situation like that... i don't get
> to do what i enjoy for a living, because i can't find any firms that will
> hire anyone under 18. life is a bitch.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
> To: "The List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:59 AM
> Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
> 
> 
> > Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there
> has
> > been a ton of tech talk today.
> >
> > The Situation
> >
> > Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed
> built.
> > But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
> > and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
> > two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a
> great
> > designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
> > want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
> > couldn't do it either."
> >
> > Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
> > over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to
> and
> > ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one"
> meal?
> > True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
> > the point.
> >
> > The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
> > everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
> > about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this
> were
> > my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
> > number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
> > from my file here and......."
> >
> > Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Eric Langlitz
> > Principal
> > Chicken3
> > 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> > Vancouver, WA 98661
> > 360.906.7195
> > feed at chicken3.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 29 03:23:42 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Wed Aug 29 03:23:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <001901c12fff$b2e98960$6e00a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNGEJFCDAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
>
> > Reading a bit about graphics at Webmonkey, I came across this line:
> >
> > "To use an image from the Web, you must either first get permission from
> the
> > original owner or edit the image beyond recognition. "

Interesting that Webmonkey should take a cavalier attitude
towards the copyright derived from other people's work...

...oh, never mind.

>:-)

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------

<tip>
DMail for Win32 now has both a MySQL authentication routine
and an IMAPd, meaning you can use it with SquirrelMail and
build your own webmail system.  Dmail costs NZ$695.
</tip>




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 29 03:37:10 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Wed Aug 29 03:37:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <20010829081640.88883.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIEENEDAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>

> go to any other
> professional and you judge their worthiness on their solutions to
> others' problems,
> right? So why not design? I'd say stick to your guns, show how
> you used design to solve other communication problems

+1.

They probably won't value something they don't pay for. Also, there is a
risk of getting a reputation for doing stuff for no upfront charge, and if
you don't get burnt in this instance, you'll get burnt soon after.

Sit tight, provide the explanation as Robert has above, and if they don't
bite, wait for another opportunity.



isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From vegapbcn at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 29 04:14:49 2001
From: vegapbcn at yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?VEGAP=20BCN?=)
Date: Wed Aug 29 04:14:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] another Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010828181231.039c1238@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20010829091001.54007.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>

 Hello,


Does anybody know a way to decode an image catched
from the web in a way that I could find out any trace
of where it came from? 
Any trace in the code that would let me certify that
that image that catched was in a particular server...
even if after some time the publisher decided to take
it away?
I am not thinking on the particular url of the image
or looking to the html, I am looking for something in
the jpg or gif file.

(sorry if my english is not the best, is my second
lenguage)

Thanks

Kepa



_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente -
http://messenger.yahoo.es



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 05:00:03 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed Aug 29 05:00:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
Message-ID: <LAW2-F398dPHdzp9Tlb00002ad7@hotmail.com>

>>Yet another browser with New Features!!
>>
>>Yes they implement the dreaded CSS Box Model correctly.
>
>They finally got CSS1 right! It's nice to see Microsoft
>play by the rules (at least in this area).

Small fry. The real question is: does it support position: fixed? If it 
doesn't all CSS1 stuff is worthless, because position: fixed is the only way 
to truly new implementations (for instance,  a frame-like page with a fixed 
navigation, combining the advantages of frames and noframes).

As to the box model, I still support the original MS implementation: it's 
much more intuitive than W3C's recommendation. Of course this doesn't help a 
bit, we'll have to steer between the various browsers.

>Now let's all use the <!DOCTYPE..> in our pages to trigger
>W3C-compliancy.

I'm afraid it won't be so simple. IE6 and NN6 have their own, separate 
implementation of DOCTYPEs and their own bugs. I'm afraid we're forced to do

if (ns)
  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');
else if (ie)
  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');

Mark my words, doctypes are going to cause a godawful lot of cross-browser 
trouble.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 29 05:25:18 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 29 05:25:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFX on Linux?
Message-ID: <p05001900b7b271910ea3@[24.43.66.191]>

Do CFX tags run on both Linux and Windows? More precisely, will a tag 
(a compiled binary) whose file name ends with '.dll' function under 
Linux as well as Win? I guess I'm asking if the binaries are used by 
the CF Server as an extension, or are they bound to the OS. (I'm 
still not sure if the question is clear-let me know if it's not).
-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From john.pye at purplehouse.com  Wed Aug 29 07:11:22 2001
From: john.pye at purplehouse.com (John Pye)
Date: Wed Aug 29 07:11:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFX on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b7b271910ea3@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <NEBBLCMIGMEBKICGDGPGCELFDAAA.john.pye@purplehouse.com>

Hi Frank

CFX tags need to be compiled for the machine you are using. The exception
might be Java-based CFX tags. I have tried using DLL CFX tags on Linux,
before I worked out how it all fitted together, and they certainly DON'T
work.

CFX tags are normally little C++ programs, compiled with a special cold
fusion library and header files. This header file lets you interact with
cold fusion by giving you commands for creating query objects, raising
exceptions, retreive calling attributes, and write output to Cold Fusion.

As well as the C++ library, there is a Java library ('interface') that gives
similar functionality.

I have wondered about writing a nice little CFX wrapper to Saxon (the XSLT
processor) - if anyone has looked into that, I'd be keen to hear about it!

John


John Pye
http://www.creativebase.com/
+44 (0)20 7258 6900


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:20 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] CFX on Linux?



Do CFX tags run on both Linux and Windows? More precisely, will a tag
(a compiled binary) whose file name ends with '.dll' function under
Linux as well as Win? I guess I'm asking if the binaries are used by
the CF Server as an extension, or are they bound to the OS. (I'm
still not sure if the question is clear-let me know if it's not).
--

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !






From john.pye at purplehouse.com  Wed Aug 29 07:16:18 2001
From: john.pye at purplehouse.com (John Pye)
Date: Wed Aug 29 07:16:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion: zipping up a file for Mac download
Message-ID: <NEBBLCMIGMEBKICGDGPGGELFDAAA.john.pye@purplehouse.com>

Hi listers

Has anyone had experience with zipping up files for download by mac users?

We have an interface on our admin pages which lets users export data query
results. Results from a query are GZIPed and returned using CFCONTENT.

I have set up CFCONTENT to delete the file once it has been downloaded, and
it works nicely in Windows, but on Mac, every time you download, you get a
message saying the file has already been deleted.

It seems to me that Mac file download spawn two requests for a file perhaps?

Any ideas? All suggestions appreciated!

JP


John Pye
http://www.creativebase.com/
+44 (0)20 7258 6900





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 07:39:59 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Aug 29 07:39:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000801c13087$bbcc2140$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Hello,

I'm fairly new at this, so new that I haven't officially started my business
as of yet. But I think what I would do here is what I have already done and
put together a proposal for the prospective client and go over it thoroughly
with them (gives time for Q's & A's). The one most important thing for all
parties concerned is to remember that communication is the key to a
successful outcome. If a client has paid out a lot of money already for
previous designs and was not satisfied, it seems as though there may have
been a breakdown in communication, or the client wasn't helped enough in
knowing what they wanted.

What I mean by the above statement is that if a client is searching out a
designer, then the client first needs to know what they want to present on
the web, how they want to come across to the world is pretty important
because it's about them.

I'm not sure that it's the designer's responsibility to tell the client what
their business or purpose is about or what they should be presenting, but if
they don't know what they are looking for, I think it's ok to steer them in
the right direction about how to find out and be better prepared for the
final results they're looking for.

A good start is to search out other web sites pertaining to what they're
about, they may find something they like and say, I want something like
this...but I also want...whatever...


Just my 2 cents, it's time to bring the kids to the aquarium, have to go...

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Eric Langlitz
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:00 AM
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?


Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there has
been a ton of tech talk today.

The Situation

Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed built.
But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a great
designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
couldn't do it either."

Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to and
ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one" meal?
True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
the point.

The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this were
my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
from my file here and......."

Any thoughts/comments/experiences?


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

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From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 07:57:30 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 07:57:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B8CAD66.15564.6DED9CE@localhost>

> From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
[...] 
> Any thoughts/comments/experiences?

nope, don't do it... it is also possible that the client is one of those 
who is never happy... how did the client characterize previous 
experiences?  have you heard anything on the street?  i have had a 
few clients who just do *not* like any designs you provide, and 
have been through every designer in town... eventually, you just 
have to disengage them... doing work for that type of client on 
anything other than a pay basis is a bad idea -- they rarely value 
the work...

that's another key, people tend to not value something they get for 
free... i think isaac already mentioned that, tho...

*if* you want to pursue this, take half an hour or so and sit down 
with the client... get a list of sites the client likes, or wants his/her 
site to be similar to (not ripped off from)... get an idea of 
colors/shapes/designs/treatments/etc. that are right out and ones 
that may work... don't move until you have a list of design 
ideas/elements that you and the client have put together (and that 
the client has signed off on)...

then do a threesome of mock-ups -- for pay... perhaps a reduced 
cost if you want to cut the client a break...

meet with the client for criticism to see what works and what 
doesn't... keep a running list... when the client says "i don't like 
green," you can tell him/her where to stick it when he/she asks for 
a green navbar (can you tell this has happened before?) after a 
design round...

you can now restart the process... lather, rinse, repeat for each 
series of designs...

when the design is picked, lock it down... get sign off, and make 
any changes to the design clearly out of scope...

i remember a client who made it clear he didn't want tabbed 
navigation... within two weeks he made me put in tabbed 
navigation... we've all got stories like this, so be prepared for it to 
happen...




From michael at tdh-marketing.com  Wed Aug 29 08:04:25 2001
From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:04:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com> <002001c13043$0b21ef80$0100000a@area>
Message-ID: <003001c13089$a8016100$4b01a8c0@michael>

I would like to know this as well.  Does this package come with installers
or will have to manual configure as usual?

The only company I know that DOES bundle at least mySQL and PHP is
http://www.abriasoft.com/  I don't know about phpMyAdmin.

HTH,

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gustavo Arizpe" <garizpe at network.com.mx>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:28 AM
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP


> I read somewhere about a download that includes MySQL, PHP and phpMyAdmin,
> ready for installing on Windows. Can anyone point me to this download?
> Thanks,
>
> Gustavo
>
>




From eric at ohmforce.com  Wed Aug 29 08:12:11 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:12:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD100@arnold.bedrock.com> <002001c13043$0b21ef80$0100000a@area> <003001c13089$a8016100$4b01a8c0@michael>
Message-ID: <3B8CE9F9.7040701@ohmforce.com>

There's a couple bundles :
easyPHP http://www.easyphp ,french, userfriendly, with the latest 
PHPMyAdmin, but the most up to date
or
http://www.phpgeek.com/phptriad.php in english but a bit behind.

Pick your weapon ! (I recommend easyphp, though)

Eric Cestari

http://www.ohmforce.com
Michael Goddard wrote:

> I would like to know this as well.  Does this package come with installers
> or will have to manual configure as usual?
> 
> The only company I know that DOES bundle at least mySQL and PHP is
> http://www.abriasoft.com/  I don't know about phpMyAdmin.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gustavo Arizpe" <garizpe at network.com.mx>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:28 AM
> Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
> 
> 
> 
>>I read somewhere about a download that includes MySQL, PHP and phpMyAdmin,
>>ready for installing on Windows. Can anyone point me to this download?
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Gustavo
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 
> 






From sub at shanx.com  Wed Aug 29 08:15:46 2001
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:15:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
In-Reply-To: <003001c13089$a8016100$4b01a8c0@michael>
Message-ID: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIKEAAIFAA.sub@shanx.com>

I think you might be looking for PHPTriad. It rocks. Personally, I like it
better than FoxServ and MDS that are more recent.

Here are the relevant links:

1. PHP Triad
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad/

2. Fox Serv
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/foxserv/

3. MDS
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/mydevserv/


Hope I helped.

Shanx



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From anything at jaxn.org  Wed Aug 29 08:18:29 2001
From: anything at jaxn.org (Jackson Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:18:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1303f$b9565400$f900a8c0@nash1.tn.home.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDMPJNOCKDPAHEFFKEAACMAA.anything@jaxn.org>

There is also PHPTriad (www.phpgeek.com) which includes php, mysql, and
apache.  I have used it, but it is just as easy to install each product
seperately (IMHO).

HTH

JAxn




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Wed Aug 29 08:25:34 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:25:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F398dPHdzp9Tlb00002ad7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829091204.02fa8b50@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 09:55 AM 8/29/01 +0000, Peter-Paul Koch bequeathed such 
tales as these:

>>>Yet another browser with New Features!!
>>>
>>>Yes they implement the dreaded CSS Box Model correctly.
>>
>>They finally got CSS1 right! It's nice to see Microsoft
>>play by the rules (at least in this area).
>
>Small fry. The real question is: does it support position: fixed? If it 
>doesn't all CSS1 stuff is worthless, because position: fixed is the only 
>way to truly new implementations (for instance,  a frame-like page with a 
>fixed navigation, combining the advantages of frames and noframes).
>
>As to the box model, I still support the original MS implementation: it's 
>much more intuitive than W3C's recommendation. Of course this doesn't help 
>a bit, we'll have to steer between the various browsers.
>
>>Now let's all use the <!DOCTYPE..> in our pages to trigger
>>W3C-compliancy.
>
>I'm afraid it won't be so simple. IE6 and NN6 have their own, separate 
>implementation of DOCTYPEs and their own bugs. I'm afraid we're forced to do
>
>if (ns)
>  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');
>else if (ie)
>  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');
>
>Mark my words, doctypes are going to cause a godawful lot of cross-browser 
>trouble.
>
>ppk

So PPK, as a newcomer to including doctypes in pages I'm curious to know 
what trouble they might cause and what problems they may already pose.
Peter Kaulback




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 08:49:06 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:49:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
Message-ID: <LAW2-F72x62P2pvPs9u00007d22@hotmail.com>

>>>Now let's all use the <!DOCTYPE..> in our pages to trigger
>>>W3C-compliancy.
>>
>>I'm afraid it won't be so simple. IE6 and NN6 have their own, separate
>>implementation of DOCTYPEs and their own bugs. I'm afraid we're forced to 
>>do
>>
>>if (ns)
>>  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');
>>else if (ie)
>>  document.write('<!DOCTYPE etc>');
>>
>>Mark my words, doctypes are going to cause a godawful lot of cross-browser 
>>trouble.
>>
>>ppk
>
>So PPK, as a newcomer to including doctypes in pages I'm curious to know 
>what trouble they might cause and what problems they may already pose.

At the moment Netscape 6, Explorer 6 and Explorer 5 on Mac each have their 
own ideas about DOCTYPEs. Of course the general purpose of doctypes would be 
to give information about the way the HTML document ought to be marked up, 
but I've seen time and again that certain doctypes in certain browsers lead 
to certain bugs.

For instance, my Scrolling Layer script 
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?layerscroll.html) does not work in 
IE5Mac when you use a certain doctype (for details see the page).

See 
http://evolt.org/article/Does_Netscape_6_Break_Your_Table_Layouts/17/4427/ 
for James Aylard's take on HTML 4.01 doctypes in NN6: they're problematical.

The reason is in all cases that browser vendors want to add doctypes (in 
itself a good idea) but have badly underestimated the sheer bugginess that 
goes with forcing a browser to interpret HTML in a different way from the 
normal way.

Secondly, each browser vendor has his own ideas about how a doctype should 
influence the markup of the page.

In short, I'm not going to use any doctypes for the forseeable future and I 
advise other people to leave them for the moment.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From abbey at abbeyink.com  Wed Aug 29 08:52:31 2001
From: abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Wed Aug 29 08:52:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
In-Reply-To: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIKEAAIFAA.sub@shanx.com>
References: <003001c13089$a8016100$4b01a8c0@michael>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010829084600.00a0d8c0@mail.abbeyink.com>

At 09:11 PM 8/29/2001 +0800, you wrote:
>I think you might be looking for PHPTriad. It rocks. Personally, I like it
>better than FoxServ and MDS that are more recent.
>
>Here are the relevant links:
>
>1. PHP Triad
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad/
>
>2. Fox Serv
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/foxserv/
>
>3. MDS
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mydevserv/

Another one for PHP/MySQL/Apache on Windows, but no phpMyAdmin, is this 
step-by-step tutorial:
http://www.net-language.com/workshops/Default.asp?Workshop=21&step=1

<tamara />




From mpember at phreaker.net  Wed Aug 29 09:03:38 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:03:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
References: <20010829081640.88883.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8CF529.95B4499D@phreaker.net>

As an out of work recent graduate has no long term industry background,
I have no "portfolio" on which to sell my skills.

There is always room for compromise.

I recently did a project where I knocked up a set of templates / sample
pages and informed then that I would require payment for my time during
this initial design phase.

It was only a few hours and I got my cash.  As it turned out, they liked
my work and we took it from there.

It is possible to do the initial prototyping without the same level of
time / commitment that you would require for the full project.  As such,
it is possible to request (read: "demand") payment for thew time taken
to do this prototype work.  They don't have to commit to the complete
project and you can test out if they know what they really want and
everyone can be happy.

Just my $AU 0.02 (only worth $US 0.01)

Robert Goodyear wrote:
> 
> I absolutely do *not* do work on spec. OK, maybe I did 12 years ago when I was doing
> letterheads to pay tuition. But it's degrading of our trade. You go to any other
> professional and you judge their worthiness on their solutions to others' problems,
> right? So why not design? I'd say stick to your guns, show how you used design to solve
> other communication problems (read: before and after) and at most, deliver a written
> proposal as to how you'd approach their needs.
> 
> My $.02
> 
> /rg
> 
> --- bull3t <initium at barrysworld.com> wrote:
> > you don't know what i'd give to be in a situation like that... i don't get
> > to do what i enjoy for a living, because i can't find any firms that will
> > hire anyone under 18. life is a bitch.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
> > To: "The List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:59 AM
> > Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
> >
> >
> > > Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there
> > has
> > > been a ton of tech talk today.
> > >
> > > The Situation
> > >
> > > Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed
> > built.
> > > But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
> > > and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
> > > two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a
> > great
> > > designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
> > > want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
> > > couldn't do it either."
> > >
> > > Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
> > > over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to
> > and
> > > ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one"
> > meal?
> > > True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
> > > the point.
> > >
> > > The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
> > > everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
> > > about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this
> > were
> > > my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
> > > number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
> > > from my file here and......."
> > >
> > > Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eric Langlitz
> > > Principal
> > > Chicken3
> > > 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> > > Vancouver, WA 98661
> > > 360.906.7195
> > > feed at chicken3.com
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------
> > > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From mg at markgroen.com  Wed Aug 29 09:15:47 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:15:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
References: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <005b01c13094$353a70c0$df694f18@vc.shawcable.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
Sent: August 29, 2001 12:59 AM
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?


>> The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
> everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't
know
> about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this
were
> my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have
the
> number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull
it
> from my file here and......."
>
> Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
<snip="from aardvark's post">then do a threesome of mock-ups -- for
pay... perhaps a reduced
cost if you want to cut the client a break.......i remember a client who
made it clear he didn't want tabbed
navigation... within two weeks he made me put in tabbed
navigation... we've all got stories like this, so be prepared for it to
happen...</snip>
LOL! I had one that spent a year deciding - a WYSIWYG like Dreamweaver
works great for the mock ups. Use layers instead of tables for the mock
ups so you can move stuff around easily, then when they "get it" do your
hand code thing with tables and CSS. AFAIK Dreamweaver's ftp will allow
you to almost make changes on the fly so they can see the results almost
immediately. Also, clients such as this need to receive *lots* of
invoices, daily, or at least weekly ones and keep em' current - no
30/60/90.






From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Aug 29 09:18:10 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:18:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6 
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B66BC@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya!

so i asked my systems' guys to setup an install of IE6 for me and they said
"well, you know, IE6 doesn't install or uninstall correctly. so if there's
problems, we'll have to rebuild your machine from scratch. even if you keep
IE5.5 you'll have problems."

so i said, "ok, let's just attach the zip drive to my machine and back it up
before the install."

but it turns out our zip drive is broken! <sigh> so before i embark on what
is apparently a one-way course into eternity, has anyone else heard of this?
are they just giving me a hard time?

have any of you installed and uninstalled IE6 without blowing up your NT4
box?? have any of you heard of this uninstall problem?

tia,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From michael at tdh-marketing.com  Wed Aug 29 09:19:37 2001
From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:19:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP
References: <003001c13089$a8016100$4b01a8c0@michael> <5.0.0.25.2.20010829084600.00a0d8c0@mail.abbeyink.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c13094$2551dea0$4b01a8c0@michael>

Cool..!  Thanks for the info..Hopefully one of these packages might help me
with the installation of PHP within the IIS5 environment...thing is a
crapper (IIS 5 when trying to install PHP to it)!

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Abbey" <abbey at abbeyink.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] In a box: MySQL, phpMyAdmin, PHP


> At 09:11 PM 8/29/2001 +0800, you wrote:
> >I think you might be looking for PHPTriad. It rocks. Personally, I like
it
> >better than FoxServ and MDS that are more recent.
> >
> >Here are the relevant links:
> >
> >1. PHP Triad
> >    http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad/
> >
> >2. Fox Serv
> >    http://sourceforge.net/projects/foxserv/
> >
> >3. MDS
> >    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mydevserv/
>
> Another one for PHP/MySQL/Apache on Windows, but no phpMyAdmin, is this
> step-by-step tutorial:
> http://www.net-language.com/workshops/Default.asp?Workshop=21&step=1
>
> <tamara />
>
>




From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Wed Aug 29 09:21:48 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:21:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6
Message-ID: <OFD6267C3F.FAC58CF5-ON85256AB7.004E46C0@beaerospace.com>

<snip>
"well, you know, IE6 doesn't install or uninstall correctly. so if there's
problems, we'll have to rebuild your machine from scratch. even if you keep
IE5.5 you'll have problems."
</snip>

It sounds to me like they're avoiding work.  I installed IE6 last night on
Win2k and had absolutely no problems.  Can you install it yourself rather
than relying on the other people to install it?

-Ron




From mpember at phreaker.net  Wed Aug 29 09:32:10 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:32:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B66BC@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <3B8CFBDB.C7AA9516@phreaker.net>

Best suggestion i can come up with for this is to simple create a new
partition and copy as much of your setup across before installing IE6.

Which raises the following topic:
<tip type="System Partition Config" Author="Michael Pemberton">
For those of us who are always playing around with our system config and
always trying out the "latest" technology, life can be a bit tragic if
you lose everything in a moment of experimentation.

One method of limiting the level of destruction caused by a system
failure is the separate the various parts of your system into individual
partitions (or even better, drives).

For example, here's my current setup:
    1: Win2000 (active and operational setup)
    2: Programs (all my software / games)
    3: Data (All my data and application config files if possible)
    4: Win2000 (Base version for easy recovery)

This means that if, for some reason, my win2000 setup gets stuffed, I
will always be able to recover as much of my system as possible.

It also helps if you have more than one OS installed and want to keep
your data accessible from both sides without risking the other OS
installations.
</tip>

Fortune Elkins wrote:
> 
> hiya!
> 
> so i asked my systems' guys to setup an install of IE6 for me and they said
> "well, you know, IE6 doesn't install or uninstall correctly. so if there's
> problems, we'll have to rebuild your machine from scratch. even if you keep
> IE5.5 you'll have problems."
> 
> so i said, "ok, let's just attach the zip drive to my machine and back it up
> before the install."
> 
> but it turns out our zip drive is broken! <sigh> so before i embark on what
> is apparently a one-way course into eternity, has anyone else heard of this?
> are they just giving me a hard time?
> 
> have any of you installed and uninstalled IE6 without blowing up your NT4
> box?? have any of you heard of this uninstall problem?
> 
> tia,
> 
> f
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
> own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
> Systems Inc.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From nsg_chong at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 09:35:31 2001
From: nsg_chong at hotmail.com (jelle desramaults)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:35:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>

Evolters,

just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ). I don't
have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for mac ?) and upload
files (wsftp for mac ?). Really need some , cuz the clients won't stop
nagging (i asked them politely).

Any help would be highly appreciated,

thx ,

 jelle



From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 09:37:34 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:37:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41>
Message-ID: <3B8CFD0D.4010906@nc.rr.com>

Ed Courtenay wrote:
 > Correct me if I'm wrong - but MSDE *is* essentially a runtime MSSQL

No need for a correction, you're right on the money.  To quote 
Microsoft, "[MSDE] Is fully compatible with Microsoft SQL Server 7.0 and 
SQL Server technologies."  Think of it as "Baby SQL7" with workgroup focus.

The MSDE engine is simply a scale-constrained version of the SQL7 
engine.   As far as I can tell from the documentation, the only 
limitations imposed are a database size limit of 2GB and a tuning for 
best performance with 5 or fewer concurrent connections.  There is no 
indication of precisely what this tuning consists of.  There also 
appears to be no hard limit on connections, just the expectation that 
performance could be expected to suffer at some point above this.

Once installed the MSDE server runs as a service under WinNT or 2000. It 
shows up as "MSSQL Server" in the services list.  It will run on 
Win95/98 but will lack some features.  MSDE databases can be 
administered using SQL Enterprise Manager (installed choosing the 
"client tools" option) or Access 2000.

Once MSDE is installed, it is available as the engine for Access 2000. 
New databases are created as new Access Projects.  This results in 
non-data objects (Queries, Reports, Forms, etc.) residing in the Access 
project file, while the data itself is hosted by the MSDE engine.  What 
you end up with are user-friendly workgroup data apps, using the 
familiar Access interface, but with the data stored in a much more 
robust, manageable, and ultimately, very scalable engine.  When needs 
grow beyond the MSDE engine, the data can be migrated to a full scale 
SQL server and the the Access app can be linked to that datasource 
without requiring modification.

MSDE has SQL7's full internal security model, and supports Windows 
security integation.

MSDE works very well as a part of my web application development 
environment.  My data is eventually hosted on a remote SQL7 server.  I 
can host a local MSDE server that is completely under my control.  I 
develop using the SQL7 Enterprise Manager tool.  When the time is right, 
it is trivial to load that db into a full scale SQL7 server for 
integration, testing and deployment.  It is also simple to move 
production data back to my local server for maintennance and iterative 
development.

All in all, this is an enormous upgrade for Access users who had been 
constrained by the limits of the Jet database engine.  It is also very 
useful for organizations using SQL7 that do distributed development.  If 
there is any inkling that a database might eventually be upsized to SQL 
server, developing in MSDE can be an excellent choice.

Apologies if this sounds like an advertisement, but I've been very 
pleased with MSDE.  MS has not gone out of it's way to advertise this 
engine, and I find that many developers aren't fully aware of what it 
is, and how they might use it.  In fact, in many instances it is a very 
low cost, fully functional alternative to a SQL server implementation. 
In my case, I get more control over anther component of my development 
platform.

More information from MS, including licensing, costs, and installation 
(watch wrap):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/backgrnd/html/msdeforvs.htm

To answer Norman's original question, Yes, I believe you will need to 
install SQL Enterprise Manager to create an MSDE database from a backup 
file.  If you don't have access to the EM, you might find someone who 
does, get them the backup file, and have them connect to your MSDE 
server and create the db by restoring from the backup.  This assumes 
that your server is accessible (and with decent bandwidth) to the restorer.

--rt




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 09:48:05 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:48:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200108291448.f7TEm4E18021@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "jelle desramaults" <nsg_chong at hotmail.com>
> 
> just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ). I
> don't have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for mac
> ?) and upload files (wsftp for mac ?). Really need some , cuz the
> clients won't stop nagging (i asked them politely).

yer gonna get a crapload of answers, so let me pre-distill them...

BBedit
http://barebones.com/products/bbedit.html

Fetch
http://fetchsoftworks.com/

and SimpleText is the Mac equiv of notepad...



From tommy at vertebrate.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 10:00:10 2001
From: tommy at vertebrate.co.uk (Tommy Martin)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:00:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)
In-Reply-To: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
References: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05010400b7b2aeae9cab@[192.168.254.1]>

>just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ).

Give it a few months and you won't know how you ever managed without one..  :)


>  I don't have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for 
>mac ?) and upload
>files (wsftp for mac ?).

Interarchy is pretty cool for FTP:

http://www.interarchy.com/
($45 shareware, free demo)


BBEdit is *the* code editor of choice (and not just for HTML). Handy 
hint; have a skim through the manual before you use it. BBEdit looks 
very simple on the surface, but it's packed with the kind of hidden 
tools that can save you hours of keyboard time. No, really  ;)

http://www.barebones.com/special_offer.html
($89 speacial offer right now!)

HTH

Tommy

-- 
V e r t e b r a t e . co . uk
     design with a spine

http://www.vertebrate.co.uk



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Aug 29 10:07:07 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:07:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
References: <LAW2-F398dPHdzp9Tlb00002ad7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <008401c1309b$9e0e5c90$2860398a@newcos.com>

ppk,

> Small fry. The real question is: does it support position: fixed? If it
> doesn't all CSS1 stuff is worthless, because position: fixed is the only
way
> to truly new implementations (for instance,  a frame-like page with a
fixed
> navigation, combining the advantages of frames and noframes).

    The answer to your question is, "no" -- unfortunately, IE 6 does not
support position: fixed. While I don't agree that CSS 1 compliance is
worthless without it, I do agree that position: fixed would be immensely
valuable in developing complex CSS-based designs.

> Mark my words, doctypes are going to cause a godawful lot of cross-browser
> trouble.

    You may well be right about this, especially where doctype-triggered
"standards-compliant" modes render in non-traditional ways, such as
line-height within Mozilla's table cells. And trying to get the
standards-compliant IE 6 box model to render even approximately like the IE
4 - IE 5.5 box model is its own form of entertainment.

James Aylard




From rinaldi at ihwy.com  Wed Aug 29 10:07:29 2001
From: rinaldi at ihwy.com (Laura J. Rinaldi)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:07:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05010406b7b2c28c0431@[207.20.86.102]>

At 12:59 AM -0700 8/29/01, Eric Langlitz wrote:
>The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
>everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
>about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this were
>my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
>number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
>from my file here and......."
>
>Any thoughts/comments/experiences?

I never do spec work. End of story. What I have found is, if the 
client did not like the design, they either paid for more renditions, 
or they fired me, and found someone else.

This has happened to me once.

The one time I was asked to do spec work, I was shocked. And it 
wasn't even spec work with the idea that I would be getting the job. 
It was spec work in competition with someone else.

Laura

-- 
"When action grows unprofitable, gather information; when information 
grows unprofitable, sleep."
		---Ursula K. Le Guin "The Left Hand of Darkness" (1969)



From morbus at disobey.com  Wed Aug 29 10:08:26 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:08:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)
In-Reply-To: <a05010400b7b2aeae9cab@[192.168.254.1]>
References: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
 <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829110248.009e8580@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >Interarchy is pretty cool for FTP:
 >http://www.interarchy.com/
 >($45 shareware, free demo)

Sometimes it's overkill though. You could also try NetFinder:

   http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pli/netfinder/

 >BBEdit is *the* code editor of choice (and not just for HTML). Handy
 >hint; have a skim through the manual before you use it. BBEdit looks
 >very simple on the surface, but it's packed with the kind of hidden
 >tools that can save you hours of keyboard time. No, really  ;)

I'll heartily agree with this statement. I've been using BBEdit since '97, 
I think. It still continues to amaze me and makes my life simpler with each 
passing day. My current uses for it include XHTML, XML, and Perl work, and 
it performs perfectly.


--
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From hershelsr at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 10:08:49 2001
From: hershelsr at yahoo.com (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:08:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B66BC@mailhost.summithq.com> <3B8CFBDB.C7AA9516@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <00ac01c130a4$8dbe8e10$0101c80a@hershel>

> One method of limiting the level of destruction caused by a system
> failure is the separate the various parts of your system into individual
> partitions (or even better, drives).
>
> For example, here's my current setup:
>     1: Win2000 (active and operational setup)
>     2: Programs (all my software / games)
>     3: Data (All my data and application config files if possible)
>     4: Win2000 (Base version for easy recovery)
>
> This means that if, for some reason, my win2000 setup gets stuffed, I
> will always be able to recover as much of my system as possible.

I do the same thing and it has saved me more than once.  I could also
suggest that your active partition be initially setup to run DOS.  (for
those of you too young to remember, MS-DOS is the name of an operating
system produced by Microsoft in the olden days--for the most part, it
actually worked!)  Then if something *really* tragic happens, you can at
least boot up and look at your system a bit before you have to reinstall
everything.

Hershel


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From marciaanddarin at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 10:15:15 2001
From: marciaanddarin at yahoo.com (Marcia)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:15:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <a05010400b7b2aeae9cab@[192.168.254.1]>
Message-ID: <20010829151030.75587.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi
I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?
Thanks in advance :)
Marcia



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Aug 29 10:19:51 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:19:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B66C0@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya m!

on the advice of another on the list, i just last saturday put a small site
up with yourdomainhost.com. $15 for the domain name; $12 a month for the
most basic level of hosting. 

they turned the account around in 24 hours; everything works exactly as
advertised. great documentation. the email and autoresponders worked
perfectly the first time. they have all kinds of different plans, great
add-ons. so far i'm happy. it's rare that you can say putting up even a
small site is painless, but i did have a painless experience with
yourdomainhost.com.

hth,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 10:20:02 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:20:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
Message-ID: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>

Thank you everyone for your replies, discussion is grand, and I am glad to
hear that most everyone out there has no room in their hearts for spec work.
Here is the second part to the discussion.

The Situation

Prospect Client B wants to work with you on a project.  However, the client
is lacking in money, but high in resources you want.  You decide to work out
a trade of sorts, part money, part goods/services.  So, after you make the
verbal agreement for this kind of deal, you work up an estimate for the
client as to how much their project will cost, and make the adjustments for
the trade.  You send your prospect the bid.

A couple days later, you go to meet with your prospect, notepad in hand
ready to start blasting away on this "sure thing."  Arriving at your
prospect clients office, they sit you down and explain to you that you are
way to expensive and that they did some checking around.  Turns out, some
Joe down the street can do the same thing you offered to do for half the
cost.

Now, you want to start rolling some heads, and explaining how what you do is
better than that $6.00 and hour designer who graduated with a degree from
Sally Struthers in Desktop Publishing.  But, you have agreed to do a big
portion of your job for trade.

Here's the question. Should you adjust your bid to match the all money bid
of the lackey who is out bidding you, or should you try to convince your
prospect that you are worth his time and money?


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com



From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 10:20:08 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:20:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20010829151030.75587.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <a05010400b7b2aeae9cab@[192.168.254.1]>
Message-ID: <200108291520.f7TFK5E22640@leo.evolt.org>

> From:  Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
[...]
> I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?

nope.

at least, not without some qualification...

platform?  NT, *nix, etc...
languages? ASP, CF, PHP, etc..
costs?
other features?
location?

and hey, in the meantime, take a look at the list archives, since 
this is a common question...




From persist1 at io.com  Wed Aug 29 10:29:00 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:29:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Spec work...?
In-Reply-To: <20010829141120.E352C52205@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291006300.21675-100000@hagbard.io.com>

Pardon me while I de-lurk.  (Mail server's been crap for two months now, I
switched to digest until things get better.)

isaac wrote:

> They probably won't value something they don't pay for. Also, there is a
> risk of getting a reputation for doing stuff for no upfront charge, and
> if you don't get burnt in this instance, you'll get burnt soon after.
>
> Sit tight, provide the explanation as Robert has above, and if they
> don't bite, wait for another opportunity.

Me too.

I grant that it can be tough when the economy's soft and none of your
clients want to spend money, or when you have no local references, etc.

But... whether you like it or not, you *do* need to pay your bills, and
spec work sits at the top of a slippery slope.  Such an approach more
often than not attracts bad clients before good, and each client begets
more of his (or her) type.

You want the good ones, I'd think.  Good clients will see through bullshit
as if by magic, will usually be able to make a solid, meaningful, candid
decison off-the-bat as to whether or not they want to give you their
business, and will have done their homework so that they know how much
they can expect to pay (in hourly terms).  But... good clients are
definitely a minority.  *sigh*

Besides which, what of contracts?  Quite often verbal contracts are worth
the paper they're written on... especially here in Oregon, where they
carry no legal standing whatsoever.

If you're hard up for references, you might put together a comp or a
(small! only a few frames!) storyboard in Photoshop or Illustrator, and
send it to the client as an attached storyboard.  Perhaps they will soften
a bit.

Otherwise, your references had damned well better be able to vouch for
your integrity and skill, which by itself should make it simple to bill in
a more "traditional" way.  For a prospect to say "I got burned before so I
want to be the exception to your normal practice if you want my business"
sounds to me more like, "I'll pay you if I feel like it, when I feel like
it."

Now, I love building sites.  "Will Build Sites For Food" describes me
pretty well, though I try not to let my clients find that out.  And I'm
getting better at hiding it, albeit sloooooowwwwly...

P.S. Direct to the guy who started the thread:  I'm in Portland, as are a
few others on thelist.  If you ever make it across the river, say on a
weekend... let me know in advance.  I'd be glad to get together, drink
coffee, and b.s. for a coupla hours.  [I'd offer to go up there, but I
don't have a car.]


Good luck,
-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"





From nicole at parrot.ca  Wed Aug 29 10:31:32 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:31:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
References: <20010829151030.75587.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00f001c1309e$bbb5bba0$6d00a8c0@mshome.net>

That's pretty vague..
Any specific criteria? Price? Speed? technologies?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcia" <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
> I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?
> Thanks in advance :)
> Marcia





From brad at beldamar.com  Wed Aug 29 10:38:03 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:38:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
In-Reply-To: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFOEJICDAA.brad@beldamar.com>

<snip>
Should you adjust your bid to match the all money bid
of the lackey who is out bidding you, or should you try to convince your
prospect that you are worth his time and money?
</snip>

There is always someone who will do it cheaper. I will generally come down a
little bit to help meet my clients budget, but I will never cut my price in
half to try to compete with Joe down the street. It sounds like you have
already made some compromises by working partially for goods/services. I
would ask the client if they have seen examples of work from the other
person. And ask them if they think that the work is sufficient for their
needs.
When someone shows examples of their work, they show their best stuff. So
remind the client of that. If the examples are not sufficient then it is
time for you to be a salesman and point out the pros and cons of going with
someone else vs. yourself.

Thanks,
Brad Miller
702-438-7660
www.rapidfx.com
www.beldamar.com
www.dejapc.com




From mpember at phreaker.net  Wed Aug 29 10:40:30 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:40:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B66BC@mailhost.summithq.com> <3B8CFBDB.C7AA9516@phreaker.net> <00ac01c130a4$8dbe8e10$0101c80a@hershel>
Message-ID: <3B8D0BB5.65660D13@phreaker.net>

To take it a step futher, you could use a program called the Extended OS
Loader (www.xosl.org) to switch between the different os setups.

This is really handy when you have more than one drive and want to fool
it into booting from the slave drive.

Hershel Robinson wrote:
> 
> > One method of limiting the level of destruction caused by a system
> > failure is the separate the various parts of your system into individual
> > partitions (or even better, drives).
> >
> > For example, here's my current setup:
> >     1: Win2000 (active and operational setup)
> >     2: Programs (all my software / games)
> >     3: Data (All my data and application config files if possible)
> >     4: Win2000 (Base version for easy recovery)
> >
> > This means that if, for some reason, my win2000 setup gets stuffed, I
> > will always be able to recover as much of my system as possible.
> 
> I do the same thing and it has saved me more than once.  I could also
> suggest that your active partition be initially setup to run DOS.  (for
> those of you too young to remember, MS-DOS is the name of an operating
> system produced by Microsoft in the olden days--for the most part, it
> actually worked!)  Then if something *really* tragic happens, you can at
> least boot up and look at your system a bit before you have to reinstall
> everything.
> 
> Hershel

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From scotts at rci-nv.com  Wed Aug 29 10:40:36 2001
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:40:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Install/uninstall ie6 
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A24A5@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fortune Elkins [mailto:fortune_elkins at summithq.com]
>
> so i asked my systems' guys to setup an install of IE6 for me 
> and they said
> "well, you know, IE6 doesn't install or uninstall correctly. 
> so if there's
> problems, we'll have to rebuild your machine from scratch. 
> even if you keep
> IE5.5 you'll have problems."

The final version of IE6 has been out for what, 36 hours now? And your
systems guys know, for a fact, this soon, that it has problems? Or are they
judging the final version on problems they had with the betas?
I installed IE6 yesterday flawlessly. It has an uninstall feature that
should take you back to your previous version, but I haven't tested it yet.
And I'll bet you anything that they haven't either. Not on the final
version, anyway. And not on enough to computers to *know* that it "doesn't
install or uninstall correctly". They're trying to get out of doing the
work, or they had a bad experience with a beta version back in May, or
something. Get them to do it, and if they won't then do it yourself. The
systems guys are supposed to do what you say, not the other way around. I
know. I'm one of them.



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 10:42:34 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:42:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6
Message-ID: <LAW2-F116clWXSZ3Zs300007dcc@hotmail.com>

>     The answer to your question is, "no" -- unfortunately, IE 6 does not
>support position: fixed. While I don't agree that CSS 1 compliance is
>worthless without it, I do agree that position: fixed would be immensely
>valuable in developing complex CSS-based designs.

Well, maybe you're right, full support for CSS1 isn't unimportant, it's just 
that MS is making such a terribly big deal of it, as if it's still a year 
ago and CSS1 is the highest goal. Meanwhile it has shrunk to moderately 
important, something any browser should support anyway (not that they do).

> > Mark my words, doctypes are going to cause a godawful lot of 
>cross-browser
> > trouble.
>
>     You may well be right about this, especially where doctype-triggered
>"standards-compliant" modes render in non-traditional ways, such as
>line-height within Mozilla's table cells. And trying to get the
>standards-compliant IE 6 box model to render even approximately like the IE
>4 - IE 5.5 box model is its own form of entertainment.

Tried once with Tantik Celiks' Box Model Hack, it didn't work (but then, the 
pages were pretty complicated). For the moment I simply ignore it, I make 
the boxes perfect in IE5Win and OKish in the other browsers.

Later on this won't be enough, of course. But we'll have to solve that when 
it comes up.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From mpember at phreaker.net  Wed Aug 29 10:45:32 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:45:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
References: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B8D0CE8.CE821AA@phreaker.net>

Never done this before, but wouldn't it be in their favour to do a
"trade" payment and allow for a margin between the wholesale and retail
value?

It might come down to how much of the setup you can prove as your own
ideas.  It should be possible to stop them from taking your concepts to
another designer.

Eric Langlitz wrote:
> 
> Thank you everyone for your replies, discussion is grand, and I am glad to
> hear that most everyone out there has no room in their hearts for spec work.
> Here is the second part to the discussion.
> 
> The Situation
> 
> Prospect Client B wants to work with you on a project.  However, the client
> is lacking in money, but high in resources you want.  You decide to work out
> a trade of sorts, part money, part goods/services.  So, after you make the
> verbal agreement for this kind of deal, you work up an estimate for the
> client as to how much their project will cost, and make the adjustments for
> the trade.  You send your prospect the bid.
> 
> A couple days later, you go to meet with your prospect, notepad in hand
> ready to start blasting away on this "sure thing."  Arriving at your
> prospect clients office, they sit you down and explain to you that you are
> way to expensive and that they did some checking around.  Turns out, some
> Joe down the street can do the same thing you offered to do for half the
> cost.
> 
> Now, you want to start rolling some heads, and explaining how what you do is
> better than that $6.00 and hour designer who graduated with a degree from
> Sally Struthers in Desktop Publishing.  But, you have agreed to do a big
> portion of your job for trade.
> 
> Here's the question. Should you adjust your bid to match the all money bid
> of the lackey who is out bidding you, or should you try to convince your
> prospect that you are worth his time and money?
> 
> --
> Eric Langlitz
> Principal
> Chicken3
> 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> Vancouver, WA 98661
> 360.906.7195
> feed at chicken3.com

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Aug 29 10:52:53 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:52:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <OF4857A6A2.05005284-ON80256AB7.00568D64@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hey Jelle

BBEdit and Fetch respectively.

I have used other ftp clients with varying degrees of additional
whizziness, but keep coming back to Fetch (which is also free
btw).

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] (no subject)


just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ). I don't
have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for mac ?) and
upload
files (wsftp for mac ?). Really need some , cuz the clients won't stop
nagging (i asked them politely).


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From mwick at kualumni.org  Wed Aug 29 10:56:24 2001
From: mwick at kualumni.org (Mike Wick)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:56:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 (missing Java)
Message-ID: <sb8cca2e.013@kugw.cc.ukans.edu>



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Aug 29 10:57:17 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:57:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] FYI: CF5 Hotfixes
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLCMIGMEBKICGDGPGGELFDAAA.john.pye@purplehouse.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIMELLKCAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

FYI - there is a page now for hot fixes for CF 5.0. You may want to bookmark
it and check back often.

http://www.allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=20371&Method=Full

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From marciaanddarin at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 10:58:46 2001
From: marciaanddarin at yahoo.com (Marcia)
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:58:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <00f001c1309e$bbb5bba0$6d00a8c0@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <20010829155400.99496.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi
Just for my personal web design site and in the range
of maybe $8.00-$15.00 a month.  
Thanks
Marcia



From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 11:10:38 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:10:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
Message-ID: <200108291610.f7TGAbE31018@leo.evolt.org>

Hey Marcia, I think one of these will treat you kindly:


FEATUREPRICE.COM (my personal host)
http://www.featureprice.com
----------------------------
BASIC PLAN -
$4.95 per Month
No set up fee, One month free
50 MB disk space
5 e-mail addresses

or

STEP-UP PLAN -
$9.95 per Month
No set up fee, One month free
150 MB disk space
15 e-mail addresses


VISIONIS.COM
http://www.visionis.com/hosting
-----------------------------
BASIC PLAN -
$10 per Month
No set up fee
50 MB disk space
2 GB data transfer
Cold Fusion Support
5 MB SQL server
3 DNS's
Full ASP support


It really depends what you need, but I currently have the small $4.95 plan
from Feature Price and have NEVER had any problems with them.

If you need a domain name, you can find them as low as $8.95 a year now.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Hosting
>Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001, 8:54 AM
>

> Hi
> Just for my personal web design site and in the range
> of maybe $8.00-$15.00 a month.
> Thanks
> Marcia
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From brad at beldamar.com  Wed Aug 29 11:11:48 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:11:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20010829155400.99496.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFEEJKCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>

check out Westhost. http://www.westhost.com
$8.95 per month for 25MB 1 pop account and unlimited email aliasing.

I have been using them for about 2 years and have never had any downtime.
They have great 24/7 email support too. I have only used the support for
retrieving my lost passwords, never really had any real problems.

Thanks,
Brad Miller
702-438-7660
www.rapidfx.com
www.beldamar.com
www.dejapc.com





From webdesign1 at irubin.com  Wed Aug 29 11:14:00 2001
From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:14:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20010829151030.75587.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAEECGCNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>

I would recommend www.hostica.com .

Cheap (as low as $1.00), Fast and Reliable.

Roee Rubin
Irubin Consulting
roee at irubin.com
http://www.irubin.com/
 



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Marcia
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:11 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Hosting


Hi
I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?
Thanks in advance :)
Marcia

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From lbenne01 at tufts.edu  Wed Aug 29 11:18:00 2001
From: lbenne01 at tufts.edu (Louis P Bennett)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:18:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAEECGCNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAEECGCNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <p05100304b7b2c4c5795c@[130.64.126.72]>

i use kove networks for all my hosting. its service is excellent.

http://www.kovenetworks.com/

>I would recommend www.hostica.com .
>
>>Hi
>>I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?
>>Thanks in advance :)
>>Marcia
>>



From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Wed Aug 29 11:18:37 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:18:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
References: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00b601c130a5$99d82160$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

First Thought: RUN!!
add it to the experience file. My experience is these deals are like lending
money and needing it back. Doesn't work well and engenders bad feelings and
broken friendships.

Second Thought:
are you really sure?
there  is a lot to be said for swapping services. most of it bad.
MLM, percentage deals, you do the work, we get the money ect.

I do a lot of sites for wrecking yards. most of these folks are doing web
business in the 30-50,000 bucks a month range from website leads.

If I had worked out a percentage deal, I would be sitting in my bathrobe
cashing checks and surfing all day long.
I would also have to hire an accountant to track the lead to sales, compute
the percentages, make sure the money was right, become a much more active
part of their business, and generally think about cars and parts, shipping,
chargebacks, returns, recalculating compensation, and on and on.

Nowhere in the above is there any mention of web design, new clients, or
more work, let alone surfing.

I am a web developer, not an accountant, or a wannabe business partner.

Most people who offer these type of 'deals' are the last folks who are
looking for another business partner that has no experience in their
industry. Nor do they understand the implications of what is required to
maintain such a relationship especially when you factor in the intrusive
nature of what You need to do to protect yourself in terms of accurate
reporting and fairness. Let alone getting paid.

Third Thought:
There will always be someone to beat you on the money. Always!
Your validation has to be on expertise and service.
You can get damn near anything to show up in a browser.

You cannot fight on price. You have to demonstrate ability and expertise.

What level of validation/optimizing/architecture/design/pre and post launch
service/submission/updates/maintenence/competitive analysis/due
diligence/experience/etc. are you demonstrating?

If your client is shopping on price, send them to Wal-Mart.

What longevity in terms of previous work can you demonstrate?
(the average website life is 44 days)

You can build websites for 200 clams. But you can't do much else unless you
are running your business as a non-profit operation.

Building websites is like having children. You give birth to them, raise
them, send them out into the world. You have to take care of them, long
after they have left the nest. Their  activities reflect your values,
ethics, and commitment. If you have been successful, you will know about it
in terms of new work.

Web development is a field that has a low cost of entry, an enormously high
failure rate, and is a moving target in every aspect of it. You also have to
become competent in areas not connected with the design area.

If you are not, trust me, you will be pursuing other interests shortly.

Sales, Accounting, Education, Promotion, Billing, Collections, Profit and
Loss, Taxes, Insurance, Contracts, Copyright, Theft, to mention a few.

Did I mention that full time web development will require somewhere between
70-90 hours a week of your time? Of that, maybe 10-20% is billable.

Did I mention that I will never, ever, do anything else untill they pry my
cold dead fingers from the keyboard?

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com





















From wade at runstrong.com  Wed Aug 29 11:20:48 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:20:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <200108290803.f7T83gE24752@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B7B26342.BE7E%wade@runstrong.com>

The American Institute of Graphic Arts has an interesting thread on its site
about just this
http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm?CategoryID=105
It reinforces what others have been saying here, that spec work is not worth
it. Some participants in the thread also bring up possible responses when
asked to do spec work.

Wade

--
Wade Armstrong
Runstrong Design
http://www.runstrong.com
310.737.0915 phone
310.737.0925 fax
310.259.5777 cell


on 8/29/01 12:59 AM, Eric Langlitz at feed at chicken3.com wrote:

 
> Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed built.
> But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
> and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
> two or three designs before I will pay anything."
> 
> Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
> 
> 




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Wed Aug 29 11:22:17 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:22:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144EF1@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Anyone recommend any UK based companies that have similar charges? Again, to
host small personal site ability to transfer own domain name. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Langlitz [mailto:feed at chicken3.com]
Sent: 29 August 2001 17:07
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Hosting


Hey Marcia, I think one of these will treat you kindly:


FEATUREPRICE.COM (my personal host)
http://www.featureprice.com
----------------------------
BASIC PLAN -
$4.95 per Month
No set up fee, One month free
50 MB disk space
5 e-mail addresses

or

STEP-UP PLAN -
$9.95 per Month
No set up fee, One month free
150 MB disk space
15 e-mail addresses


VISIONIS.COM
http://www.visionis.com/hosting
-----------------------------
BASIC PLAN -
$10 per Month
No set up fee
50 MB disk space
2 GB data transfer
Cold Fusion Support
5 MB SQL server
3 DNS's
Full ASP support


It really depends what you need, but I currently have the small $4.95 plan
from Feature Price and have NEVER had any problems with them.

If you need a domain name, you can find them as low as $8.95 a year now.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Hosting
>Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001, 8:54 AM
>

> Hi
> Just for my personal web design site and in the range
> of maybe $8.00-$15.00 a month.
> Thanks
> Marcia
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From carole at soulmedia.com  Wed Aug 29 11:27:44 2001
From: carole at soulmedia.com (carole guevin)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:27:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFEEJKCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>
Message-ID: <GAELJDDKGNNBLCOAJKFGEEFBDGAA.carole@soulmedia.com>

sitting on the backbone - the base service and techy goodies abound
http://actadivina.com - base service affordable 100mg + 1GIG transfer.

carole guevin
 + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
 + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
 + IDo + http://independentsday.org
 + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com

...<<the WEB is yet to come!>>...





From james.wampler at hotpop.com  Wed Aug 29 11:46:45 2001
From: james.wampler at hotpop.com (James Wampler)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:46:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
References: <018901c1302a$e6afdfd0$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <009101c130a9$75254e70$b3ae799f@WAMPLERJAMES2>

Try printing to Acrobat Distiller instead of PDFWriter.  I have had this
problem frequently at work, and the only solution I have found is to use
Distiller.

-James Wampler
james.wampler at hotpop.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at gmx.co.uk>
To: "theList [evolt.org]" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:35 PM
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs


> Hi,
>
> Whenever I create a PDF using MS Word 2k and the Acrobat PDFWriter 4
printer
> driver, I find all my bullet points have turned to question marks in the
> PDF. Anybody know of a solution to this irritating little problem?
>
> Im on Win2K if it makes any difference.
>
> TIA, Cheers,
>
> Olly
> - www.gnarly.f2s.com -
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 11:47:01 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:47:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
In-Reply-To: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200108291647.f7TGl0E04988@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
[...] 
> Here's the question. Should you adjust your bid to match the all money
> bid of the lackey who is out bidding you, or should you try to
> convince your prospect that you are worth his time and money?

you thank him for your time, wish him luck, and leave...

either he'll be back, or you can't please him anyway...

besides, if you're going to do trade work, and this is how he's 
treating you about *your* profession, how can you expect him to 
value what you do, and how can he expect you to value what he 
does?

you could just find someone else to do trade with...




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 11:47:49 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:47:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS lockdown tool
Message-ID: <000601c130aa$5a44dac0$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Hi All,

you may already know this but I thought I would post it anyway. This was
sent to me in a newsletter that I subscribe to. I know there have been posts
in the past about security with IIS and though I would give this info.

Microsoft has released a new security tool that makes it simple
to secure an IIS 4.0 or 5.0 web server. The tool, known as the
IIS Lockdown Tool, allows web servers to quickly and easily be
put into the right configuration ? in which the server provides
all of the services the administrator wants to provide, and no
others. Customers can use this tool to instantly protect their
systems against security threats that target web servers. More
info can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/security/tools/locktool.asp


Bob

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 8/23/01




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Aug 29 11:54:25 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:54:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS lockdown tool
Message-ID: <OFB69C30CC.1DD77119-ON80256AB7.005C0DB7@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Kinda begs the question "Shouldn't that be part of the default
install?", like http://www.openbsd.org/

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "Thelist (E-mail)" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] IIS lockdown tool


Microsoft has released a new security tool that makes it simple
to secure an IIS 4.0 or 5.0 web server. The tool, known as the
IIS Lockdown Tool, allows web servers to quickly and easily be
put into the right configuration ? in which the server provides
all of the services the administrator wants to provide, and no
others. Customers can use this tool to instantly protect their
systems against security threats that target web servers. More
info can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/security/tools/locktool.asp




--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From frodo_tx at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 12:08:23 2001
From: frodo_tx at yahoo.com (Chuck Sumpter)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:08:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20010829151030.75587.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010829170339.61091.qmail@web14806.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I am looking for a web host? Any recommendations?
> Thanks in advance :)
> Marcia

Marcia,

Check out http://www.domain-zone.com
 
==================  blurbs from their site ==========================
For $15/month or $150/yr. you get:

150mb. 
100 e-mail addresses
Unlimited Mailing Lists
Unlimited Traffic
Telnet/SSH
Java Servlets 

They have a pretty good control panel and tech support has responded to
questions quickly. 

Other "standard" stuff includes:

Unique IP Address
Graphical Control Panel
Formmail Script
Hit Counters
Resource Meter
Shared Security Certificate
FrontPage 97,98,2000 Support
CGI-BIN Directory
Site Statistics
Online Help
MySQL Database
Real Audio/Video Support
Free Technical Support
 File Management
PHP Web Programming Language
Web Page Redirection
Search Engine Registration
Web Site Archival
Anonymous FTP
Secure Sockets Layer (SSL)
Email Accounts
Directory Protection
Network Status
PGP Mail
MIME Types
Account Password
 
Other misc. stuff 

The servers are Pentium III 550's with 512 MB RAM and SCSI hard drives. Our
routers attach directly to the routers of 3 internet backbone providers
(Verizon, Qwest, and Global Frontier Center) using multiple 155 Mb/s links. 

Each hosting plan comes with an archive utility (no additional fee) that allows
you to backup/restore your site without our intervention.  The backup is
"zipped" and is stored in the space allocated for your site. 

====================== End of commercial <grin> ========================

I have 2 sites located there now and a fiend has one.  No complaints so far. 

HTH 

Chuck 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From rinaldi at ihwy.com  Wed Aug 29 12:12:42 2001
From: rinaldi at ihwy.com (Laura J. Rinaldi)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:12:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
In-Reply-To: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200108291520.f7TFK1E22587@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05010403b7b2e00885db@[207.20.86.110]>

At 8:15 AM -0700 8/29/01, Eric Langlitz wrote:
>Here's the question. Should you adjust your bid to match the all money bid
>of the lackey who is out bidding you, or should you try to convince your
>prospect that you are worth his time and money?

They get what they pay for. If they want Sally Struthers School of 
Design, as you say, that is what they did. One of our clients did 
this recently and the work was *so* bad, that they came running back 
to us to get the rest of the job redone to the quality they wanted, 
and they were grateful that we took them back.

Laura
-- 
"When action grows unprofitable, gather information; when information 
grows unprofitable, sleep."
		---Ursula K. Le Guin "The Left Hand of Darkness" (1969)



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Wed Aug 29 12:20:20 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:20:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)
References: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D22C3.4D124EBD@avencom.com>

jelle desramaults wrote:
> Evolters,
> 
> just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ). I don't
> have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for mac ?) and upload
> files (wsftp for mac ?). Really need some , cuz the clients won't stop
> nagging (i asked them politely).
> 
> Any help would be highly appreciated,

Dori Smith has a great page on this topic --

Macintosh Web Software on a Budget
http://www.dori.com/budgetwebstudio.html

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 12:24:34 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:24:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <3B8CF529.95B4499D@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <20010829171950.61673.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

You know, there is no hard and fast rule that your portfolio must only be stocked with
paid client work. There is absolutely nothing wrong with student work and your own
concept work. Go find a site on the 'net that you think you could improve, and do a
before and after for your book. Be sure to be clear that this is "exploratory" work and
you do not insinuate that you've been contracted to do these redesigns. But basically
this is that same as spec work inasmuch as it shows the client what you're capable of,
yet it doesn't give away your intellectual property that they could easily rip off and
take down the street to the $6.00 an hour designer and say "do it like this."

Here's an analogy: fine artists aren't often judged on the merits of commissioned work
vs. their own expressions, are they? You look at the work for what it is, don't you?

/rg

--- Michael Pemberton <mpember at phreaker.net> wrote:
> As an out of work recent graduate has no long term industry background,
> I have no "portfolio" on which to sell my skills.
> 
> There is always room for compromise.
> 
> I recently did a project where I knocked up a set of templates / sample
> pages and informed then that I would require payment for my time during
> this initial design phase.
> 
> It was only a few hours and I got my cash.  As it turned out, they liked
> my work and we took it from there.
> 
> It is possible to do the initial prototyping without the same level of
> time / commitment that you would require for the full project.  As such,
> it is possible to request (read: "demand") payment for thew time taken
> to do this prototype work.  They don't have to commit to the complete
> project and you can test out if they know what they really want and
> everyone can be happy.
> 
> Just my $AU 0.02 (only worth $US 0.01)
> 
> Robert Goodyear wrote:
> > 
> > I absolutely do *not* do work on spec. OK, maybe I did 12 years ago when I was doing
> > letterheads to pay tuition. But it's degrading of our trade. You go to any other
> > professional and you judge their worthiness on their solutions to others' problems,
> > right? So why not design? I'd say stick to your guns, show how you used design to
> solve
> > other communication problems (read: before and after) and at most, deliver a written
> > proposal as to how you'd approach their needs.
> > 
> > My $.02
> > 
> > /rg
> > 
> > --- bull3t <initium at barrysworld.com> wrote:
> > > you don't know what i'd give to be in a situation like that... i don't get
> > > to do what i enjoy for a living, because i can't find any firms that will
> > > hire anyone under 18. life is a bitch.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric Langlitz" <feed at chicken3.com>
> > > To: "The List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:59 AM
> > > Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all.  Time for a healthy philosophical discussion in design, as there
> > > has
> > > > been a ton of tech talk today.
> > > >
> > > > The Situation
> > > >
> > > > Prospect Client A comes to you and wants to have a web site designed
> > > built.
> > > > But they have been burned in the past by "paying designers tons of money,
> > > > and still not getting what they want."  So, they say to you "I want to see
> > > > two or three designs before I will pay anything.  I am sure you are a
> > > great
> > > > designer, and your work shows it, but I am not sure you can grasp what I
> > > > want.  And I have already paid too much for other qualified designers who
> > > > couldn't do it either."
> > > >
> > > > Now, if you have not had a meal in three days, and the rent is two months
> > > > over-due, this may be very tempting.  But, how many diners can you go to
> > > and
> > > > ask to try two or three different plates before you will pay for "one"
> > > meal?
> > > > True, this is not a clear example of the work a designer does, but you get
> > > > the point.
> > > >
> > > > The worst part of this whole miserable e-mail, is that this happens
> > > > everyday, and designers engage in this activity every day.  I don't know
> > > > about you, but I don't like to spend my time doing free work.  If this
> > > were
> > > > my prospect client, the first words out of my mouth would be "I have the
> > > > number of a developer that I think would be great for you, let me pull it
> > > > from my file here and......."
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts/comments/experiences?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Eric Langlitz
> > > > Principal
> > > > Chicken3
> > > > 3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
> > > > Vancouver, WA 98661
> > > > 360.906.7195
> > > > feed at chicken3.com
> > > >


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 12:28:07 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:28:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?
In-Reply-To: <B7B1E3CA.5BA4%chrisg@gsnet.com>
Message-ID: <20010829172323.67541.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>

Wonder if you can get 'em from Alexa Internet?

/rg
--- Chris George <chrisg at gsnet.com> wrote:
> Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
> work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From '95-'97 ??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil  Wed Aug 29 12:31:08 2001
From: VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil (Villano, Paul)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:31:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] PowerPoint 2000 to Web Page Conversions
Message-ID: <7788B27B9516634499F14B84C409B690654F90@EXCH01.usachcs-emh1.army.mil>

I know we've been around the block on this one a few times but here's the
bottom line.  Does the "clean up" tool that Microsoft provides to clean up
their own mess in PowerPoint 2000 conversions to HTML work for Convert to
Web Pages (PowerPoint 2000), too, or only works in the old (PowerPoint95
Save As HTML) option?  If I convert these files, does that eliminate the
crashing that the straight PowerPoint 2000 Web Pages cause?

I've been using the old PowerPoint 95 to convert to HTML because although it
still has plenty of crap code it's easier to clean up than the PowerPoint
2000 to Web Page mess.  And the latter uses frames, which many folks abhor.
However, the powers that be seem to prefer the frames version because it
lets them advance to specific slides in the side panel rather than having to
clunk through each slide in the presentation.

What is the trade off?  If there are lots of folks who will still crash in
the (frames) version, obviously I'll go with the no frames version.  But if
it's not a big deal I'd might as well give the powers that be what they
want.

PS  Yes, I know there are other programs that clean up the crap code but I'm
limited in what I can use.  No funding you know.  :)

PAUL
"Further up and further in!" - From the Last Battle
"Once a king in Narnia, always a king in Narnia"



From morbus at disobey.com  Wed Aug 29 12:39:15 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:39:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?
In-Reply-To: <20010829172323.67541.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <B7B1E3CA.5BA4%chrisg@gsnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829133621.0167e640@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >> Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
 >> work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From '95-'97

You won't find Yahoo or Altavista (or really, other search engines), but 
you'll find some others in Disobey's Ghost Sites:

    http://www.disobey.com/ghostsites/


--
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From xslf at xslf.com  Wed Aug 29 12:46:00 2001
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Wed Aug 29 12:46:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829133621.0167e640@red.totalnetnh.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBLOPICLGEMAHONBKKOEJBCBAA.xslf@xslf.com>

"The Internet Archive" micht have what you want:
http://www.archive.org/internet/index.html


-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?

> Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
> work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From '95-'97




From TKuhn at eProject.com  Wed Aug 29 13:01:19 2001
From: TKuhn at eProject.com (Tim Kuhn)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:01:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
Message-ID: <A1EB632CD549D31192B00050047BE38DB1E6FD@ntserver1.eproject.com>

Hello Evolters.  I am having a hard time getting a table to align with the
top of my page. This has been driving me nuts as this should not be a
problem. I know there must be something simple that I am overlooking, but,
at the moment I am too blind to see it. The code for the top of the page is
</head>
<body bgcolor="lightblue">
 <table bgcolor="white" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="765">
  <tr>
It is that simple. Why does it sit 12px or so down from the top of the page?
Thanks to all that help me stop banging my head!

Tim Kuhn 
Software Engineer
eProject
206.239.7448.148
tkuhn at eproject.com  




From brad at beldamar.com  Wed Aug 29 13:01:51 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:01:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work Pt. 2
In-Reply-To: <200108291647.f7TGl0E04988@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFGEJNCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>

<snip>
besides, if you're going to do trade work, and this is how he's
treating you about *your* profession, how can you expect him to
value what you do, and how can he expect you to value what he
does?
</snip>

We don't know if this person even has a clue about the web. All we know is
that they want a web site.
If the person hasn't a clue then I would expect them to question why my work
is so much more expensive than someone else's.
If you had never heard of BMW or Mercedes and wanted to buy a car, wouldn't
you ask why those 2 are so much more than the Ford.
I have found that 9 times out of 10 the client hasn't got a clue and once
you inform them of the facts they always come back to you in the long run.
When you are honest and up front about everything the client will appreciate
that more so than Joe Blow down the street saying "I can beat that price".

Thanks,
Brad Miller
702-438-7660
www.rapidfx.com
www.beldamar.com
www.dejapc.com




From jmorehead at digitalims.com  Wed Aug 29 13:04:40 2001
From: jmorehead at digitalims.com (Jason Morehead)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:04:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
In-Reply-To:  <A1EB632CD549D31192B00050047BE38DB1E6FD@ntserver1.eproject.com>
References: <A1EB632CD549D31192B00050047BE38DB1E6FD@ntserver1.eproject.com>
Message-ID: <a05001900b7b2dddf732f@[207.91.25.33]>

>Hello Evolters.  I am having a hard time getting a table to align with the
>top of my page. This has been driving me nuts as this should not be a
>problem. I know there must be something simple that I am overlooking, but,
>at the moment I am too blind to see it. The code for the top of the page is
></head>
><body bgcolor="lightblue">
>  <table bgcolor="white" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
>width="765">
>   <tr>
>It is that simple. Why does it sit 12px or so down from the top of the page?
>Thanks to all that help me stop banging my head!

put this in your <body> tag...

<body bgcolor="lightblue" topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" 
marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">

this will align your table with the edges of the browser window in 
both NN and IE.

jason
-- 
digital IMS - http://www.digitalIMS.com/
201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508
402.437.0127



From brad at beldamar.com  Wed Aug 29 13:05:06 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:05:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
In-Reply-To: <A1EB632CD549D31192B00050047BE38DB1E6FD@ntserver1.eproject.com>
Message-ID: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFOEJNCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>

<body bgcolor="lightblue" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0" marginheight="0"
marginwidth="0">

try that

Thanks,
Brad Miller
702-438-7660
www.rapidfx.com
www.beldamar.com
www.dejapc.com




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Aug 29 13:05:25 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:05:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829125717.0256dbe8@mail.imaginuity.com>

Why doesn't SQL Enterprise Manager maintain Primary Keys and Identities 
when you Export Data from one server to another?  Or is it that hidden 
"Make This Program Work Properly" setting that Microsoft always hides?

--Ben

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Aug 29 13:09:48 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:09:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE and new windows
In-Reply-To: <B7B26342.BE7E%wade@runstrong.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAEMOKCAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

I've noticed that in IE 5.5, and IE6 now, when a site launches a new window,
my browser seems to hang for about 3-5 seconds. Ok, that isn't a horribly
long time, but it's annoying. Does anyone else every see this? Does it sound
familiar to anyone?

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda





From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Aug 29 13:11:07 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:11:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B8251010CD3@apollo.ti3.com>

depending on how you do it (copy tables, specify query, or xfer SQL 7
objects), it is an option (clear the two checkboxes "Transfer all
objects" and "Use default options" and then check out the settings).
Can't remember if it on by default or not.

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
> 
> Why doesn't SQL Enterprise Manager maintain Primary Keys and 
> Identities 
> when you Export Data from one server to another?  Or is it 



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Wed Aug 29 13:13:33 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:13:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD104@arnold.bedrock.com>

| Why doesn't SQL Enterprise Manager maintain Primary Keys and 
| Identities

Ben,

I'm guessing this relates to your issue, if not, I'll ask for the wet
noodle:

The Identity attribute in SQL Server is autoincremented. This means that it
is generated and inserted as rows are added. So, adding a row with the
autoincremented field will potentially conflict with a later value which was
generated by the server.

There is a way you can make a table accept the identity attributed field,
but it involves altering the table.

<rory disposition="happily" alt="8)"/>



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Aug 29 13:26:37 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:26:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
In-Reply-To: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B8251010CD3@apollo.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829131347.02525728@mail.imaginuity.com>

Where is that under?  I suppose it'd probably help if I said I'm using 
2000.  I've been hitting the "Copy table(s) and view(s) from the source 
database" option in the DTS Import/Export Wizard.  There is an option for 
"Include extended properties" under "Copy objects and data between SQL 
Server Databases", but the help file makes it sound like that isn't it.

Hmmmmm...I love the SQL language, but this kind of stuff drives me nuts.

--Ben

At 01:06 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>depending on how you do it (copy tables, specify query, or xfer SQL 7
>objects), it is an option (clear the two checkboxes "Transfer all
>objects" and "Use default options" and then check out the settings).
>Can't remember if it on by default or not.
>
>sgd
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
> >
> > Why doesn't SQL Enterprise Manager maintain Primary Keys and
> > Identities
> > when you Export Data from one server to another?  Or is it

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Aug 29 13:29:28 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:29:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82511CF9D9@apollo.ti3.com>

If you are going between SQL servers, then do the Xfer objects between
SQL Servers option --you'll have much more control over the
operation....

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]

> "Include extended properties" under "Copy objects and data 
> between SQL 
> Server Databases", but the help file makes it sound like that 
> isn't it.
> 



From feed at chicken3.com  Wed Aug 29 13:30:59 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:30:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
Message-ID: <200108291830.f7TIUwE17839@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Tim.  You need to set your margin height to "0" - as there is a natural
margin on the top and left sides of every browser. Here is an example of
code (it resides in the "body" tag):

<body marginwidth=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 topmargin=0>

this also removes the left margin.  The code "leftmargin" and "topmargin"
are for older versions of Explorer that do not recognize marginwidth/height.

That should solve your problem.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Tim Kuhn <TKuhn at eProject.com>
>To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
>Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001, 11:02 AM
>

> Hello Evolters.  I am having a hard time getting a table to align with the
> top of my page. This has been driving me nuts as this should not be a
> problem. I know there must be something simple that I am overlooking, but,
> at the moment I am too blind to see it. The code for the top of the page is
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="lightblue">
>  <table bgcolor="white" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
> width="765">
>   <tr>
> It is that simple. Why does it sit 12px or so down from the top of the page?
> Thanks to all that help me stop banging my head!
>
> Tim Kuhn
> Software Engineer
> eProject
> 206.239.7448.148
> tkuhn at eproject.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug 29 13:33:23 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:33:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE and new windows
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAEMOKCAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D3462.60108@yahoo.ca>

Raymond Camden wrote:
> I've noticed that in IE 5.5, and IE6 now, when a site launches a new window,
> my browser seems to hang for about 3-5 seconds. Ok, that isn't a 
I notice this happening, too (IE 5.5 and 6). But only on Win2K when the 
site is using window.open(). On Win98 (IE 5.5 and 6) this doesn't happen.

Not sure why, though....

Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From gnarly at gmx.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 13:39:00 2001
From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:39:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
Message-ID: <005301c130ba$567a23e0$9865fea9@uridium>

Does anybody know of a quick way to select every other horizontal line on an
image? An automatic way of using the single row marquee tool to select
alternate rows all the way down the image is what i'm after. Or do I need to
make myself an action to do it for me?

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Aug 29 13:40:34 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:40:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE and new windows
In-Reply-To: <3B8D3462.60108@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEICENCKCAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

Yes, I should add that I'm using Win2k as well.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Craig Saila
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:29 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] IE and new windows
> 
> 
> Raymond Camden wrote:
> > I've noticed that in IE 5.5, and IE6 now, when a site launches 
> a new window,
> > my browser seems to hang for about 3-5 seconds. Ok, that isn't a 
> I notice this happening, too (IE 5.5 and 6). But only on Win2K when the 
> site is using window.open(). On Win98 (IE 5.5 and 6) this doesn't happen.
> 




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 13:46:30 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:46:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
In-Reply-To: <005301c130ba$567a23e0$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at gmx.co.uk>
>
> Does anybody know of a quick way to select every other horizontal line
> on an image? An automatic way of using the single row marquee tool to
> select alternate rows all the way down the image is what i'm after. Or
> do I need to make myself an action to do it for me?

depends how fast you are...

humor me and try this...

make a new image, 1x2 (or so)... fill one pixel with black, make the 
other transparent... select it and make it into a pattern fill (Edit > 
Define Pattern)...

now, go to the image you want to affect, and make a new layer...  
select the entire layer (use the marquee) and go to Edit > Fill... 
select the pattern...

now, deselect...

ok, now ctrl-click this new layer, hide it, and go to the layer you 
want to affect...

you now have every other row selected...




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Aug 29 13:46:51 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:46:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
In-Reply-To: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82511CF9D9@apollo.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829133201.01c6b728@mail.imaginuity.com>

D'oh!  I just saw it, too.  If it was a snake it woulda bit me.

Thanks, Dex.  You the man on this kind of stuff.

--Ben

<tip type="SQL" author="Ben Dyer">
If you know anything about T-SQL, you probably know of INNER JOIN and OUTER 
JOIN.  But don't forget about their rarely-used cousin CROSS JOIN which 
will select every matching combination between two tables.

When is this useful?  A school system is a good example.  If you have a 
table of students and a table of dates, you can use a CROSS JOIN to select 
every matching combination of students and dates to generate attendance 
records.

Caveat: This is over-generalized, the code can get very hairy for something 
like this.  It's just good to be aware of the little-used SQL commands 
because you never know when they might come in handy.
</tip>

At 01:24 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>If you are going between SQL servers, then do the Xfer objects between
>SQL Servers option --you'll have much more control over the
>operation....
>
>sgd
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
>
> > "Include extended properties" under "Copy objects and data
> > between SQL
> > Server Databases", but the help file makes it sound like that
> > isn't it.
> >

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From gnarly at punkass.com  Wed Aug 29 13:53:38 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:53:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
References: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <006301c130bc$58a50840$9865fea9@uridium>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Photoshop Question


> you now have every other row selected...

Works like a dream!
Cheers aardvark!

Olly 
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -





From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Aug 29 13:55:29 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:55:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] PowerPoint 2000 to Web Page Conversions
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370EA614@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1D48@ITG_B02>

I don't know of any PP clean up applications out there that work worth a
hoot.  There are some companies that brag that they will do it for you.  I
have never tried them.  You are right that the PPT 95 conversion is much
much easier to clean up, but the resultant files don't work well and the
rendering on the users end sucks, doesn't work the same from machine to
machine and sometimes doesn't work at all.
The 2K version produces code that is almost impossible to, (have done some
minor clean up on it though), and it's huge.  It think that the 2K version
conversion should be a poster child for reasons not to integrate XML into
some solutions.  On the plus side of it though, if the creator of the PP
presentation uses animated gif's instead of the packaged PP animation
sequences, the converted show works nicely across most machines.
Anyway, you can still get the nav bar you are looking for in the 95
conversion, you just have to set the properties of the converter prior to
running it against your file.  Unfortunately it's still in a frame, but the
coding is simple enough you can trash the frame and include the navigation
as part of the page if you want to.

Brian W. King

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Villano, Paul

What is the trade off?  If there are lots of folks who will still crash in
the (frames) version, obviously I'll go with the no frames version.  But if
it's not a big deal I'd might as well give the powers that be what they
want.





From gnarly at punkass.com  Wed Aug 29 13:57:26 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Aug 29 13:57:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
References: <018901c1302a$e6afdfd0$9865fea9@uridium> <009101c130a9$75254e70$b3ae799f@WAMPLERJAMES2>
Message-ID: <007f01c130bc$be19c7b0$9865fea9@uridium>

Thanks for your help everybody, I'll give distiller a go.

Olly

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Wampler" <james.wampler at hotpop.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Printing to PDFs


> Try printing to Acrobat Distiller instead of PDFWriter.  I have had this
> problem frequently at work, and the only solution I have found is to use
> Distiller.
>
> -James Wampler
> james.wampler at hotpop.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at gmx.co.uk>
> To: "theList [evolt.org]" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:35 PM
> Subject: [thelist] Printing to PDFs
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Whenever I create a PDF using MS Word 2k and the Acrobat PDFWriter 4
> printer
> > driver, I find all my bullet points have turned to question marks in the
> > PDF. Anybody know of a solution to this irritating little problem?
> >
> > Im on Win2K if it makes any difference.
> >
> > TIA, Cheers,
> >
> > Olly
> > - www.gnarly.f2s.com -
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Aug 29 14:11:42 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Aug 29 14:11:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL DTS Transfer
Message-ID: <01c130bd$b2cb3aa0$bc4b149a@rudy>

hi ben

>... I love the SQL language, but this kind of stuff drives me nuts.

+1

the "kind of stuff" you are referring to is a particular vendor's
implementation (or not) of particular dba (database administration)
utilities

be thankful your particular vendor even has dba utilities that you can
choose tu use -- imagine if the only utility available was the bulk copy,
and the only way to get stuff into another server was to create
delimited flat files...  how would you handle identity fields then, hmmm?

>  Thanks, Dex.  You the man on this kind of stuff.

+1

he definitely has his shit together ('scuse me, but that's a standard
technical term in the database industry)

regarding your tip, ben --

> If you know anything about T-SQL, you probably know of
> INNER JOIN and OUTER JOIN.  But don't forget about their
> rarely-used cousin CROSS JOIN which will select every
> matching combination between two tables.

great tip, nice example, too

but just in case of any misunderstanding, please let me add that inner,
outer, and cross joins are not just t-sql (i.e. microsoft transact-sql)

inner, outer, and cross joins (as well as unions, exceptions, and so on)
are standard sql, and consequently they are supported by every database
that supports the sql standard...

... although not always with the same syntax   ;o)

you thought browsers not supporting w3c standards was a nightmare? try
porting your queries from one database to another

as the saying goes, "the nice thing about standards is,
there's so many to choose from"


rudy






From initium at barrysworld.com  Wed Aug 29 14:50:29 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Wed Aug 29 14:50:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
References: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c130c3$40012f60$00aaa440@home>

> just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ).

why? mac is far superior to pc! the only reason i don't use one is cause
they're way expensive :(




From noah at tookish.net  Wed Aug 29 14:53:17 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Wed Aug 29 14:53:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Licensing
In-Reply-To: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFGEJNCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>
References: <200108291647.f7TGl0E04988@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829154205.02333cf0@tookish.net>

I have a client who is a little concerned about the MySQL license. I'm 
developing a commercial application for them, using PHP and MySQL (the 
application basically brings together people looking for jobs with jobs 
looking for people). I've had a look at the licensing section of the MySQL 
Manual (http://www.mysql.com/doc/L/i/Licensing_examples.html), and as far 
as I can tell there is no problem. The client, however, has someone telling 
them that they will have to buy a MySQL license to do this, and that they 
should use PostgreSQL instead.

Can anyone reassure me that MySQL is indeed free for such an application?

Thanks very much,
Noah




From initium at barrysworld.com  Wed Aug 29 14:59:54 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Wed Aug 29 14:59:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
References: <A1EB632CD549D31192B00050047BE38DB1E6FD@ntserver1.eproject.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c130c4$91522e90$00aaa440@home>

add topmargin=0 to the body tag




From jay at trans-city.com  Wed Aug 29 15:00:48 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:00:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Licensing
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829154205.02333cf0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <200108292000.f7TK0lE27642@leo.evolt.org>

  Did the client read this:

"If you use MySQL in conjunction with a Web server on Unix, you don't 
have to pay for a license.

This is true even if you run a commercial Web server that uses MySQL, 
because you are not selling an embedded MySQL version yourself. However, 
in this case we would like you to purchase MySQL support, because MySQL 
is helping your enterprise."

The person suggesting Postgres is wrong.

-j


On Wednesday, August 29, 2001, at 03:48 PM, noah wrote:

> I have a client who is a little concerned about the MySQL license. I'm 
> developing a commercial application for them, using PHP and MySQL (the 
> application basically brings together people looking for jobs with jobs 
> looking for people). I've had a look at the licensing section of the 
> MySQL Manual (http://www.mysql.com/doc/L/i/Licensing_examples.html), 
> and as far as I can tell there is no problem. The client, however, has 
> someone telling them that they will have to buy a MySQL license to do 
> this, and that they should use PostgreSQL instead.
>
> Can anyone reassure me that MySQL is indeed free for such an 
> application?



From initium at barrysworld.com  Wed Aug 29 15:02:00 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:02:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
References: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <010101c130c4$dc187c40$00aaa440@home>

> make a new image, 1x2 (or so)... fill one pixel with black, make the 
> other transparent... select it and make it into a pattern fill (Edit > 
> Define Pattern)...


that really is easy and very sharp looking :)




From mccreath at ak.net  Wed Aug 29 15:02:04 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:02:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <7462C412FF85D511B00A00902785C6A402FE6D@EXPO1>
Message-ID: <7462C412FF85D511B00A00902785C6A42434E5@EXPO1>

> > just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ).
> 
> why? mac is far superior to pc! the only reason i don't use 
> one is cause they're way expensive :(

Couple of points here:

a. please don't start platform wars on thelist, even in jest.
b. if you're jesting or not contributing to a thread in a productive
manner, please include a tip.

http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/listinfo

thanks!
David

<tip author="mccreath">
Cross-platform fluency or at least familiarity can open many, many doors
in an employment market that has turned down. If you walk into a job
interview spouting attitude about platforms, you may just shoot yourself
in the foot. I've sent at least one applicant packing because he started
lecturing me about how a Mac web server would be better for the school
district (despite the fact that we were actually using one at the time
of his interview).

There are enough similarities in all major GUIs at this point that
learning a new OS is not nearly as hard as it used to be, but there are
always little quirks to get used to. Where is your menu bar? How do you
exit an application? What applications should I be familiar with?
</tip> 





From einstein314 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 15:03:55 2001
From: einstein314 at hotmail.com (David Altherr)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:03:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
References: <200108291830.f7TIUwE17839@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <OE43vyo3DjFbUcOV1Ee000008b6@hotmail.com>

Actually there is a fifth margin tag that you can include in the body tag:
the 'rightmargin' attribute which is the intuitive counterpart for the
'leftmargin' attribute.  In fact it would appear that the need for the
redundant attributes is an IE vs. Netscapse issue, or so an HTML validator
tells me; see returned compatibility info below:

MARGINHEIGHT: Netscape 4
MARGINWIDTH: Netscape 4
TOPMARGIN: IE 3,4,5
LEFTMARGIN: IE 3,4,5
RIGHTMARGIN: IE 4,5

Again, I have not personally tested all of these; results returned by
www.netmechanic.com:

http://results.netmechanic.com/aps5/compat.cgi?f=240/1552/23-16990&p=1&vi=0&
s=NetMechanic&fv=5&lr=5&ld=6.57

 However, when developing a full width site, I noticed erratic behavior when
viewing the page via IE 5 if I did not include the 'rightmargin' tag: the
right margin would return to the default margin width when navigating via
links on the page, but not when manually typing the URIs into the Address
bar. (???)

-David Altherr
www.davidaltherr.net



> Hi Tim.  You need to set your margin height to "0" - as there is a natural
> margin on the top and left sides of every browser. Here is an example of
> code (it resides in the "body" tag):
>
> <body marginwidth=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 topmargin=0>
>
> this also removes the left margin.  The code "leftmargin" and "topmargin"
> are for older versions of Explorer that do not recognize
marginwidth/height.
>
> That should solve your problem.
>
>
> --
> Eric Langlitz


> > Hello Evolters.  I am having a hard time getting a table to align with
the
> > top of my page. This has been driving me nuts as this should not be a
> > problem. I know there must be something simple that I am overlooking,
but,
> > at the moment I am too blind to see it. The code for the top of the page
is
> > </head>
> > <body bgcolor="lightblue">
> >  <table bgcolor="white" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
> > width="765">
> >   <tr>
> > It is that simple. Why does it sit 12px or so down from the top of the
page?
> > Thanks to all that help me stop banging my head!
> >
> > Tim Kuhn




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Aug 29 15:19:51 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:19:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table alignment
References: <200108291830.f7TIUwE17839@leo.evolt.org> <OE43vyo3DjFbUcOV1Ee000008b6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <013101c130c7$4ea5fa10$2860398a@newcos.com>

David, et al,

> MARGINHEIGHT: Netscape 4
> MARGINWIDTH: Netscape 4
> TOPMARGIN: IE 3,4,5
> LEFTMARGIN: IE 3,4,5
> RIGHTMARGIN: IE 4,5

    Or, we can take the standards-compliant route and use CSS:

<style type="text/css">
  <!--
    body {
      margin: 0px ;
    }
  -->
</style>

    That'll cover all of the bases in IE 4+ and Netscape 6.x. Behavior in IE
3 and Netscape 4 appears to be unreliable, however.

James Aylard




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 29 15:21:51 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:21:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Licensing
In-Reply-To: <200108292000.f7TK0lE27642@leo.evolt.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829154205.02333cf0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829131030.028b2bb8@baratta.com>

At 12:56 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>  Did the client read this:

Jay is correct.

But if your client does not want to pay $200 Euros for the low end email 
support and/or $230 Euros for the license, then that's a pretty cheap client.

http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements/costs.html

Also note this is the NEW licensing policy for MySQL:

http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements/policy.html


----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From noah at tookish.net  Wed Aug 29 15:24:48 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:24:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Licensing
In-Reply-To: <200108292000.f7TK0lE27642@leo.evolt.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829154205.02333cf0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829161202.023308e0@tookish.net>

At 03:56 PM 29/08/2001, Jay Greenspan wrote:
>  Did the client read this:
>
>"If you use MySQL in conjunction with a Web server on Unix, you don't have 
>to pay for a license.
>
>This is true even if you run a commercial Web server that uses MySQL, 
>because you are not selling an embedded MySQL version yourself. However, 
>in this case we would like you to purchase MySQL support, because MySQL is 
>helping your enterprise."
>
>The person suggesting Postgres is wrong.

Thanks for that - I just needed to hear it from someone else.

Regards,
Noah

<tip type="editors" author="noah">
EditPlus (http://www.editplus.com/) is a decent low-overhead text editor 
for Windows, and it's reasonably cheap.
</tip>




From font9a at austin.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 15:55:38 2001
From: font9a at austin.rr.com (font9a (RR))
Date: Wed Aug 29 15:55:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
References: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001301c130cb$cab79dd0$3e7b4442@OCEAN>

>> humor me and try this...

<snip>

This deserves tip of the month. I've always wondered how to do that. I've
been doing the brute force method for years.

Thanks, Aardvark :)






From hagerman at mcn.org  Wed Aug 29 16:41:55 2001
From: hagerman at mcn.org (Garth Hagerman)
Date: Wed Aug 29 16:41:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)
Message-ID: <B7B2ACED.743%hagerman@mcn.org>

Hi y'all-
Here are my coding/development tools of choice, starting with three bargain
priced shareware programs:
PageSpinner. A wonderful, inexpensive html editor. Most Mac/html folks use
BBEdit. I have no idea why.
http://www.optima-system.com/pagespinner/
StyleMaster.  Makes style sheets quickly and easily.
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/
Another utility which I find valuable for web stuff, even though it isn't
specially designed for it, is CopyPaste, which gives you 100 clipboards to
store code snippets which you use over and over.
http://www.scriptsoftware.com
For image creation and editing, I don't know of an inexpensive substitute
for the ubiquitous and omnipresent PhotoShop
          Garth







From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 16:47:16 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Wed Aug 29 16:47:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41>
Message-ID: <3B8D61C3.50803@nc.rr.com>

(resend, never showed for me.  apologies if you get this twice.)

Ed Courtenay wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong - but MSDE *is* essentially a runtime MSSQL 

No need for a correction, you're right on the money.  To quote 
Microsoft, "[MSDE] Is fully compatible with Microsoft SQL Server 7.0 and 
SQL Server technologies."  Think of it as "Baby SQL7" with workgroup focus.

The MSDE engine is simply a scale-constrained version of the SQL7 
engine.   As far as I can tell from the documentation, the only 
limitations imposed are a database size limit of 2GB and a tuning for 
best performance with 5 or fewer concurrent connections.  There is no 
indication of precisely what this tuning consists of.  There also 
appears to be no hard limit on connections, just the expectation that 
performance could be expected to suffer at some point above this.

Once installed the MSDE server runs as a service under WinNT or 2000. It 
shows up as "MSSQL Server" in the services list.  It will run on 
Win95/98 but will lack some features.  MSDE databases can be 
administered using SQL Enterprise Manager (installed choosing the 
"client tools" option) or Access 2000.

Once MSDE is installed, it is available as the engine for Access 2000. 
New databases are created as new Access Projects.  This results in 
non-data objects (Queries, Reports, Forms, etc.) residing in the Access 
project file, while the data itself is hosted by the MSDE engine.  What 
you end up with are user-friendly workgroup data apps, using the 
familiar Access interface, but with the data stored in a much more 
robust, manageable, and ultimately, very scalable engine.  When needs 
grow beyond the MSDE engine, the data can be migrated to a full scale 
SQL server and the the Access app can be linked to that datasource 
without requiring modification.

MSDE has SQL7's full internal security model, and supports Windows 
security integation.

MSDE works very well as a part of my web application development 
environment.  My data is eventually hosted on a remote SQL7 server.  I 
can host a local MSDE server that is completely under my control.  I 
develop using the SQL7 Enterprise Manager tool.  When the time is right, 
it is trivial to load that db into a full scale SQL7 server for 
integration, testing and deployment.  It is also simple to move 
production data back to my local server for maintennance and iterative 
development.

All in all, this is an enormous upgrade for Access users who had been 
constrained by the limits of the Jet database engine.  It is also very 
useful for organizations using SQL7 that do distributed development.  If 
there is any inkling that a database might eventually be upsized to SQL 
server, developing in MSDE can be an excellent choice.

Apologies if this sounds like an advertisement, but I've been very 
pleased with MSDE.  MS has not gone out of it's way to advertise this 
engine, and I find that many developers aren't fully aware of what it 
is, and how they might use it.  In fact, in many instances it is a very 
low cost, fully functional alternative to a SQL server implementation. 
In my case, I get more control over anther component of my development 
platform.

More information from MS, including licensing, costs, and installation 
(watch wrap):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/backgrnd/html/msdeforvs.htm

As to Norman's original question... I believe you will need the 
Enterprise Manager app to restore from a db backup file.

--rt

Norman Beresford wrote:
...it only includes instructions on adding it through SQL Server 
Enterprise Manager, and for the life of me I can't find this mentioned 
in the MSDE documentation anywhere.




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 16:57:43 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Aug 29 16:57:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Just installed Dreamweaver Ultradev 4 / Fireworks 4 Studio
Message-ID: <000001c130d5$a91e3120$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Hi all,

I have just received and installed Dreamweaver Ultradev 4 / Fireworks 4
studio software and I noticed that unlike the trail version, there is no
Eyecandy effects.

Does anybody have a good source for Eyecandy, Preferably freebies. Also now
that I have the commercial version of the software any suggestions for
pointing me in the right direction for either application as far as what
else I need to get for them would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob
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From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Wed Aug 29 17:22:32 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:22:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Just installed Dreamweaver Ultradev 4 /
  Fireworks 4 Studio
In-Reply-To: <000001c130d5$a91e3120$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829180909.02498c10@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 05:57 PM 8/29/01 -0400, Bob Boisvert bequeathed such 
tales as these:
>Hi all,
>
>I have just received and installed Dreamweaver Ultradev 4 / Fireworks 4
>studio software and I noticed that unlike the trail version, there is no
>Eyecandy effects.
>
>Does anybody have a good source for Eyecandy, Preferably freebies. Also now
>that I have the commercial version of the software any suggestions for
>pointing me in the right direction for either application as far as what
>else I need to get for them would be much appreciated.

You can download a copy of Eyecandy 3 with a demo of version 4 here 
http://www.critical-depth.com/eyecandy_download.asp and it is perfectly 
legal too :-)
Peter Kaulback




From william at manuel.as  Wed Aug 29 17:24:02 2001
From: william at manuel.as (liam)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:24:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] quote from Webmonkey site re: copyrighted images
In-Reply-To: <000401c13002$60765480$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>
References: <000001c13003$43befdf0$b07ba8c0@toronto.takingitglobal.org>
Message-ID: <200108291123.TAA20648@mail.pal-onl.com>


>>?But, if I take an image (either from the web, or scanned from a
>>?book, or from a CD or wherever), pixelate the heck out of >?it, and
>>?run it through a negative emboss, the resulting image should be
>>?beyond recognition, <snip>

if its already "beyond recognition".. then how the heck can the real owner tell if that particular image was stolen from him in the first place??





From lucy.molinaro at ptk.org  Wed Aug 29 17:24:52 2001
From: lucy.molinaro at ptk.org (Lucy Molinaro)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:24:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Improving link names on huge website
Message-ID: <000395418221d81BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Hello all,

First, a (belated) THANKS to all who offered me advice with Flash.

On to my question/quandry --

I have worked as Web Editor for my company's website for the past 2.5
years. We are a non-profit educational organization and offer lots of
resources and information to our members on our website, which has been in
existence for 5 years. Consequently, the site, http://www.ptk.org, is huge
and growing daily.

Over the time I've been with my company, I've used different naming
conventions for links for websections and pages and I've adapted sections
around naming conventions that were in place before I started. The result
is inconsistency in these names throughout the website.

I've been learning over the years, and I've developed a convention that I
feel comfortable with and that works well for the site. I've been
implementing it for about a year, and in all the new pages I create, but
throughout the site there are still pages with cumbersome, non-intuitive
links, like http://www.ptk.org/sprogram/ampromise/ap_intro.htm.

I want to go back and "correct" these links (for instance, I'd like to
change that link in the previous paragraph
to  http://www.ptk.org/americaspromise/), and make them all consistent and
more intuitive. But I also want to make sure our constitutents can still
find these pages -- they're linked throughout the website, printed in
publications, used on the myriad of "chapter" websites affiliated with our
company.

I have thought about creating new pages saved under the new and improved
file names and placing redirect scripts on the old pages. But before I
embark on that big project (our web dept is pretty small -- one
full-timer,
one contract, one part-time), are there any other suggestions anyone has
to
offer? Any short-term suggestions, at that?

I don't know much about web programming, but it is an option. There are
several programmers in the Technology division who work on some web
programming projects.

(Don't know if this is important, but I'm on the digest version of this
list.)

Many thanks,
Lucy




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 17:34:50 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:34:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop tip
Message-ID: <200108292234.f7TMYnE08900@leo.evolt.org>

<tip type="Photoshop">
Need to select every other row of pixels in a Photoshop document? 
 Tired of manually doing it?  Well, fret no more, there's an easier 
way.

Create a new Photoshop file.  Make it 1x2 pixels (or 2x1 if you 
want vertical selections).  Double click the layer in the layers 
palette and rename it anything you like (so you can use 
transparency).  Now delete one of the two pixels (so it's 
transparent), and make sure the other is filled.

Ok, now use the marquee tool to select both pixels, and define it 
as a pattern by going to Edit > Define Pattern.

Now, go to your original Photoshop file and create a new layer.  
Select the entire layer (use the marquee, it might be faster).

Now, you want to fill the entire selection, but not with a color, with 
a pattern.  So go to Edit > Fill and make sure you choose pattern 
from the select menu. Now that it's filled, deselect the layer.

Now, ctrl-click the new layer in the layers palette.  You now have 
every other row (or column) selected.  Deselect the layer (not the 
selection) by selecting the layer you want to edit.  You can move 
the selection with the arrow keys if it's off.

Go to town on layer you want to edit, and maybe save that other 
layer you create for quick selection later on.
</tip>



From andy.war at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 29 17:43:08 2001
From: andy.war at ntlworld.com (Andy Warwick)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:43:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Improving link names on huge website
In-Reply-To: <000395418221d81BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <B7B32D66.12B8%andy.war@ntlworld.com>

on 2001-08-29 11:17 pm, Lucy Molinaro at lucy.molinaro at ptk.org wrote:

<snip>

> I've been learning over the years, and I've developed a convention that I
> feel comfortable with and that works well for the site. I've been
> implementing it for about a year, and in all the new pages I create, but
> throughout the site there are still pages with cumbersome, non-intuitive
> links, like http://www.ptk.org/sprogram/ampromise/ap_intro.htm.
> 
> I want to go back and "correct" these links (for instance, I'd like to
> change that link in the previous paragraph
> to  http://www.ptk.org/americaspromise/), and make them all consistent and
> more intuitive. But I also want to make sure our constitutents can still
> find these pages -- they're linked throughout the website, printed in
> publications, used on the myriad of "chapter" websites affiliated with our
> company.
> 
> I have thought about creating new pages saved under the new and improved
> file names and placing redirect scripts on the old pages. But before I
> embark on that big project (our web dept is pretty small -- one
> full-timer,
> one contract, one part-time), are there any other suggestions anyone has
> to
> offer? Any short-term suggestions, at that?

Lucy

If you are using Apache as a web server, you might want to take a look at
the redirect options.

    http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_alias.html
    http://www.engelschall.com/pw/apache/rewriteguide/

It's fairly heavy going if you are new to server stuff, but the basic idea
is that a URL of the form http://www.ptk.org/sprogram/ampromise/ap_intro.htm
is auto-magically redirected to
http://www.ptk.org/americaspromise/ap_intro.htm by the server itself, that
replaces the "sprogram/ampromise" with "americaspromise" on-the-fly and
without human intervention; no re-writing or multiple pages with different
addresses needed.

if you need any help contact me off-list.
 
Hope that helps.

Regards

-- 
Andy Warwick       

email: andy.w at creed.co.uk                      PGP ID: 0xB1D73499
=================================================================
Creed New Media Design                          tel: 07976 205085
Nottingham, England                        http://www.creed.co.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------
website production - internet programming - new media consultancy
cdrom multimedia - graphic design - digital image retouching
=================================================================




From waves at atlantic.net  Wed Aug 29 17:49:51 2001
From: waves at atlantic.net (Jonathan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:49:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
References: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <012c01c100ec$ffad16a0$d811d0d1@w7z3d3>

Would anyone be kind to demonstrate a nice application of this technique?
Attachments are not permitted I imagine, but how about a URL or two?

Jonathan

.. Does anybody know of a quick way to select every other horizontal line on
an image? An automatic way of using the single row marquee tool to
 select alternate rows all the way down the image is what i'm after. Or do I
need to make myself an action to do it for me?
... humor me and try this...

> make a new image, 1x2 (or so)... fill one pixel with black, make the
> other transparent... select it and make it into a pattern fill (Edit >
> Define Pattern)...
>
> now, go to the image you want to affect, and make a new layer...
> select the entire layer (use the marquee) and go to Edit > Fill...
> select the pattern...
>
> now, deselect...
>
> ok, now ctrl-click this new layer, hide it, and go to the layer you
> want to affect...
>
> you now have every other row selected...
>





From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 17:54:56 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 17:54:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
In-Reply-To: <012c01c100ec$ffad16a0$d811d0d1@w7z3d3>
Message-ID: <200108292254.f7TMstE11028@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Jonathan" <waves at atlantic.net>
>
> Would anyone be kind to demonstrate a nice application of this
> technique? Attachments are not permitted I imagine, but how about a
> URL or two?

think of every image you've seen with tv-style scanlines...

you can use that selection to apply that affect, whether by a new 
layer with alternating rows of fill with transparency and layer 
effects, or just by making the selection and messing with the 
selected pixels...

try it out, see what you come up with...



From jmclark at multiservice.com  Wed Aug 29 18:01:33 2001
From: jmclark at multiservice.com (Jeana Clark)
Date: Wed Aug 29 18:01:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
In-Reply-To: <012c01c100ec$ffad16a0$d811d0d1@w7z3d3>
Message-ID: <002f01c130db$978177a0$b2341eac@multiservice.com>

http://www.designsbymark.com/pstips/photo_tvlines.shtml

<tip author="jeana">
Lots of photoshop 'tips' at http://www.designsbymark.com/pstips/index.shtml
to help you create those popular images you see all over the net.

search the site for other graphic design tips as well.. flash..
illustrator..etc.
</tip>

<snip>
> Would anyone be kind to demonstrate a nice application of this technique?
> Attachments are not permitted I imagine, but how about a URL or two?
</snip>





From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Wed Aug 29 18:10:38 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Wed Aug 29 18:10:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)
References: <B7B2ACED.743%hagerman@mcn.org>
Message-ID: <00a101c130df$1d4843c0$0300a8c0@Home>

Try The Gimp. It takes a littel getting used to. But as a PShop fanatis for
years, I tried hard to learn Gimp and it lives up to all expectations.
There's only a few things missing but it is freeware so who cares!
regads
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Hagerman" <hagerman at mcn.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Mac coding tools (was no subject)


> Hi y'all-
> Here are my coding/development tools of choice, starting with three
bargain
> priced shareware programs:
> PageSpinner. A wonderful, inexpensive html editor. Most Mac/html folks use
> BBEdit. I have no idea why.
> http://www.optima-system.com/pagespinner/
> StyleMaster.  Makes style sheets quickly and easily.
> http://www.westciv.com/style_master/
> Another utility which I find valuable for web stuff, even though it isn't
> specially designed for it, is CopyPaste, which gives you 100 clipboards to
> store code snippets which you use over and over.
> http://www.scriptsoftware.com
> For image creation and editing, I don't know of an inexpensive substitute
> for the ubiquitous and omnipresent PhotoShop
>           Garth
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From gnarly at punkass.com  Wed Aug 29 18:23:11 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Wed Aug 29 18:23:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Question
References: <200108291846.f7TIkTE20595@leo.evolt.org> <012c01c100ec$ffad16a0$d811d0d1@w7z3d3>
Message-ID: <007c01c130e2$073b1820$9865fea9@uridium>

Heres one:

http://www.gnarly.f2s.com/media/images/468_221/Design-1_04.jpg

Did the select thing, increased brightness & contrast by 40, did a select
inverse and reduced the brightness & contrast by 40. Its my current
favourite effect so I shall overuse it loads...

Olly
[presently listening to: Chemical Brothers: Exit Planet Dust]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan" <waves at atlantic.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Photoshop Question


> Would anyone be kind to demonstrate a nice application of this technique?
> Attachments are not permitted I imagine, but how about a URL or two?
>
> Jonathan





From bonpaul at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug 29 19:24:32 2001
From: bonpaul at bigfoot.com (Bonnie Fitzgerald)
Date: Wed Aug 29 19:24:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question...
Message-ID: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01>

Hi,

I'm wondering if someone can tell me if there is a CSS text property for
enabling anti-alias. I find that when I use css, the text edges are very
choppy and I would like to display them with an anti-alias look without
having to resort to a graphic.

Any advice would be greatly apreciated!

Cheers,
Bonnie






From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 29 19:37:58 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 29 19:37:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
Message-ID: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>

Overtime as I interact with members of different yet related 
professions I find that people generally fall into two classes: those 
for whom their profession is merely a means of sustenance, and those 
whose profession is a passion, and is an important soul feeding 
activity.

We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from 
novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about 
your own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's 
important about that? What are the values that you reach for? How do 
you measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or 
peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?

-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 29 20:00:00 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 29 20:00:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question...
In-Reply-To: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01>
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01>
Message-ID: <p05001902b7b33e412b77@[24.43.66.191]>

>  I'm wondering if someone can tell me if there is a CSS
>  text property for enabling anti-alias. I find that when
>  I use css, the text edges are very choppy and I would
>  like to display them with an anti-alias look without
>  having to resort to a graphic.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answer is No. 
Anti-aliasing of text is taken care of by the browser (which is in 
turn taken care of by the OS).

If you've got a case of the jaggies, I would recommend looking at the 
following items:

1) The font on your particular machine is bitmap, not vector based.

2) The particular size (too small or weird: 11.423pt) makes it hard 
for your machine to deal with nicely.

3) The font you've specified is unavailable and has been substituted 
for an alternate.

4) An anti-aliasing gremlin was hungry and started nibbling on your font-edges.

-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From isaac at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 29 22:00:15 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:00:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Spec Work...?
In-Reply-To: <3B8CF529.95B4499D@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIIEPADAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>

> As an out of work recent graduate has no long term industry background,
> I have no "portfolio" on which to sell my skills.


If you want to do some freebies to pad your portfolio, be nice and help a
charity or do a sponsorship deal with a local association or sporting club.
Doing free work for a business only gives them expectations for the future
in some cases, and that helps no one:

 - your won't get money out them next time
 - other designers will have the same problem
 - they'll get someone cheap/free next time and risk having a shitty site,
or losing any concept of good vs bad design.


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Wed Aug 29 22:05:15 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:05:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829214910.03456d98@redhotsweeps.com>

Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on a 
nt system?  I know that you use the "at" command to call the browser with 
the page, but how do you get the page to close after it is done? Or, can 
you load ie in the background?  I searched MS knowledge base, but was 
unable to find anything useful.

Thanks

Chris




From sub at shanx.com  Wed Aug 29 22:05:35 2001
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:05:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829214910.03456d98@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIAEFAIFAA.sub@shanx.com>

Chris, try this..I think it will give you some ideas:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cron+on+NT

Cheers
Shanx



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From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 29 22:36:10 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:36:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829214910.03456d98@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829202928.02aef758@baratta.com>

At 07:51 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on a 
>nt system?  I know that you use the "at" command to call the browser with 
>the page, but how do you get the page to close after it is done? Or, can 
>you load ie in the background?  I searched MS knowledge base, but was 
>unable to find anything useful.

What type of web script are you trying to run? If its ASP, convert the page 
to VBS and us AT to schedule the script. This way you by pass the IIS 
component and run it directly.

If it's Perl, your perl file extensions should be routed by the OS through 
the Perl Interpreter even outside of the web server - so just call it 
directly. Same with PHP if you are using the CGI version.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From todd_tyler at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 22:40:02 2001
From: todd_tyler at yahoo.com (Todd Tyler)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:40:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP include files
Message-ID: <002701c13104$c7172ea0$f900a8c0@nash1.tn.home.com>

Being sort of new to PHP, I have a question about include files.

I've read that to secure my include files (which contain database
connection functions among other things), I need to place them outside
of my document root directory. The problem is, I have a site where I
don't have access to another directory outside of my document root. In
that case, if I have to place the include files in the document root (or
a subdirectory of the document root) what's the best way to keep my
include files from being seen by anyone hitting the site?

Thanks for any ideas.

Todd



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From rick at techno-weenie.com  Wed Aug 29 22:42:29 2001
From: rick at techno-weenie.com (rick)
Date: Wed Aug 29 22:42:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP include files
References: <002701c13104$c7172ea0$f900a8c0@nash1.tn.home.com>
Message-ID: <002401c13104$f9fca980$0400a8c0@spacemonkey>

Simple:  don't use .inc files.  Either rename them something like
include.inc.php or set your web server to parse .inc files as PHP.  I even
put a simple line that kills the script if someone accesses the include
script directly.

rick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Tyler" <todd_tyler at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP include files


> Being sort of new to PHP, I have a question about include files.
>
> I've read that to secure my include files (which contain database
> connection functions among other things), I need to place them outside
> of my document root directory. The problem is, I have a site where I
> don't have access to another directory outside of my document root. In
> that case, if I have to place the include files in the document root (or
> a subdirectory of the document root) what's the best way to keep my
> include files from being seen by anyone hitting the site?
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From sfmalo at email.msn.com  Wed Aug 29 23:02:52 2001
From: sfmalo at email.msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Wed Aug 29 23:02:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] MPEG not displaying in NN4.7 or NN6.01
Message-ID: <00d501c13107$9267e8e0$e229193f@oemcomputer>

Good evening all -

For the first time I embedded an MPEG into an html page. It shows up just
peachy in I.E. 5.5 played by Windows Media Player, but not a pixel shows in
NN4.7. In Net 6.01 I get a big white box that requests that a plug-in be
downloaded. No clue as to which one would satisfy NN.

Could some kind soul look at my source code and see where I goofed? I copied
the <object> and <embed> code from my HTML 4.0 book which said that it's
supposed to work cross-browser. Not knowing which parameters to include, I
put in all 26!!! Well, it sure doesn't work!!

I think I need javascript to help out but am not sure what to write.

URL: http://www.24caratdesign.com/Steven/stevesphotos.html


TIA,

Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From djc at starkmedia.com  Thu Aug 30 00:12:38 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Aug 30 00:12:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <3B8DCA7F.60700@starkmedia.com>

Hey Frank -

Interesting stuff :)

Frank wrote:

> We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from 
> novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about your 
> own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's 
> important about that? What are the values that you reach for? How do you 

Personally, my job is the means to the end. I enjoy it to a certain 
degree, but I get up in the mornings simply because my job affords me 
other possibilities - the main one being evolt :)

I actually talked to a couple other evolt members here in town tonite 
about this exact issue, and we all agreed that the job is basically what 
we get by with to do other things.

It's an interesting thing for me personally, to be honest(and hopefully 
not to 'me me me'). I was 23 and 24 talking to thousands of people about 
various things(mostly oracle and linux), which was quite a reversal of 
roles for a lot of people i was talking to. Nine months into 25, I've 
sadly gotten away from that(hopefully to return someday) and slid into a 
job thats halfway challenging, but gives me the opportunity to do evolt 
stuff a good deal of the day. This has been a good thing for evolt 
overall, and something i've been willing to give up the lecture series 
for, but a bad thing professionally.. Hopefully in the future I can find 
a more sound balance between the two things I love doing - evolt and 
lectures. To answer you questions, I reach for enrichment of others.. I 
*LOVE* showing people in the IT industries the super cool things about 
open source and linux in particular and how it can help them. I also 
love telling people about evolt and the super cool things it can do for 
them..

> measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or peers 
> for whom you have a great respect, and why?

My personal mentors are a guy from netscape who most people have heard 
of and a medicine man who most people certainly heard of :)

Hopefully thats not TMI for ya

.djc.




From brad at beldamar.com  Thu Aug 30 01:13:58 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Thu Aug 30 01:13:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
In-Reply-To: <3B8DCA7F.60700@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <JLEGJLKFIBMHIOJFPADFKEKHCDAA.brad@beldamar.com>

-> We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from
-> novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about your
-> own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's
-> important about that? What are the values that you reach for?

-Personally, my job is the means to the end. I enjoy it to a certain
-degree, but I get up in the mornings simply because my job affords me
-other possibilities - the main one being evolt :)

Interesting indeed!

I gave up what I love doing when I graduated from school. I realized that
Virtual Reality wasn't really an option in the job market at the time (or
even now really). While in school I learned CAD and all sorts of graphics
programs and a ton of programming languages. But when I graduated I realized
that the only thing I could really get a job doing was CAD stuff.

After about 5 years of trying out every possible position in the computer
industry I realized that I really enjoy doing just about everything that
deals with computers. However I kept getting tired of doing the same thing
everyday. I finally realized that working for myself was about the only way
for me to get the variety I needed.

I am now able to do a little CAD work, some graphics, some programming, and
I still get to play with hardware from time to time.
What more could I ask for. OK more money but who isn't asking for that?

-> measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or peers
-> for whom you have a great respect, and why?

I don't know if I have fulfilled everything yet. I'm still broke. I think
everyone's goal in life is to be successful financially.

Mentors = I would have to say that my only mentor was a teacher I had in
college. He was a goofy guy that used to jump up and down on the desks
during class because he would get so excited about certain subjects. (Yes he
really jumped up and down on the desks) The guy always made his point and
really got us all interested in everything that was going on in the IT
world. And he was one hell of a C++ programmer.

Anyone else care to share?

Thanks,
Brad Miller
702-438-7660
www.rapidfx.com
www.beldamar.com
www.dejapc.com







From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Thu Aug 30 01:50:40 2001
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Thu Aug 30 01:50:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy (long!)
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AAFF@SBS>

I'll bite - it's not like I don't enjoy talking about myself ;-)

Myself, I can happily say that I love my job. I left school at 18, deeply
disillusioned with the education system in the UK, definitely not interested
in university (though I had the grades) and with a lust to be independent
and support myself. I took whichever jobs I could get for 7 years - that
included washing dishes, cook, bar tender, stiltwalking chicken handing out
flyers and 4 years working in comic shops - fun, but all terribly badly
paid! During this time I started writing some magazine articles and ran a
distribution for self-printed comic fanzines. I also bought a little 386 to
help with the DTP aspect.

Then at the tail end of 1994 I saved up the pennies to buy a modem and
treated myself to an Internet connection for christmas. I hade been reading
Wired and Mondo for a while and was intrigued by the possibilities of this
Internet thing. I had a vision of perhaps being able to scrounge some
pennies being a researcher of information for large companies. Despite
starting off with a DOS based account *shudder* I soon managed to get
Netscape up and running and I suddenly realised that nobody was going to pay
for a researcher when the information was so easy to find (not that there
was so much of it back then). Then came the epiphany - those web pages were
damned easy to make!

6 months later I had built 3 websites, one for my job, one for my fanzine
distro and one for a free magazine I worked for. At the time, these were
amongst the very few commercial sites on the web. On the strength of these I
landed a job with a tiny start up (employee #1), which had the right mix of
people to go on to be a pretty good company. 3 Years ago I left to move to
Sweden, which has also been "the right thing" and I soon left the consulting
side of the branch to work as an in-house web strategist for a very fun, but
hectic company.

*phew* I probably could have made that shorter, but the point is that for me
it's not so much the particular job I'm doing that I love. It's the area I'm
working in, or what I like to think of as my "career" :-) For me, producing
web stuff just clicked. I also am a bit of a control freak, so I also like
project management. Currently I combine both PM and production work. I run a
2 person in-house programming team (that's me and my colleague), plus
external contractors. I have a lot of say in what directions we take, can
come up with a new business idea every week and have it listened to (my boss
is a super-entrepeneur), plus I get to program as well. It gets hectic at
times and I get frustrated and stressed like everyone, but it's the core
thing of producing web information that I love.

In my spare time, I run 5 websites - a wap search engine, a wap developers
mailing list, my personal log site, a site for a bunch of friends who I
travel to festivals with and a small business site for my girlfriend's dad.
I'm contemplating starting one more to spread the software I've written to
maintain my personal site. For me it's self publishing all over again.

Some years back, I made a vow to myself, that I would try and only increase
the value of the total sum of information on the web. I would try and avoid
producing rubbish and defintely avoid spreading false information. I hope
I've succeeded. That's what gets me up in the mornings!

.steve

(Sorry that was so long - I said I love talking about myself!)


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------



From paul at wishlist.com.au  Thu Aug 30 02:54:03 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Thu Aug 30 02:54:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy (long)
Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB714E87D9@coen.wishlist.com.au>

Hey all,

> We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from 
> novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about 
> your own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's 
> important about that? What are the values that you reach for? How do 
> you measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or 
> peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?

Great question. Fantastic. This is a semi-random collection of 
points, which might stray off-topic a bit, but I wanted to write whatever
came to my head: probably because I've never really thought about this
issues so directly before, and wanted to see what came out. Interesting
exercise.

Anyway:

---

I do what I do because I love it: I'm not going to act like I'm an 
Internet pioneer, but I did start in the industry comparatively early: 
my first "real" job post-university was working for a dot-com (we're 
talking 1998 here), and straight away I loved it. The values and 
ideals I developed then, after having used the web for 4 years or so and
watched it grow, are still with me.

To say that you like an industry because it's "cool" sounds lame, but 
that's why I do like it: it's doing something cool. And there's not 
much better than being able to do something cool, and do it
well. It's good to be able to look back on the carnage that is the 
Australian Internet Industry and go "hey, we're still there... 
we're actually doing something right", and knowing that you had 
a part to play in that. 

More generally, I do IT because it appeals to my sensibilities: if 
I were to do something more "mechanical" and "hands-on", I would get 
frustrated because there are a "right way" and a "wrong way" to do 
things, and sometimes there's no freedom. But were I doing something 
more "artsy" (I considered journalism), I would get frustrated because 
there IS no "right way" -- I think what I love about IT is that there 
are any number of "right ways" to do things, and anyone who really 
'groks' what development is all about can appreciate them. There are 
ways of getting something done that work, but are inherently "wrong"; 
there are ways that are right, but might end up not being used for 
business, financial, or whatever other reason. This fascinates me.

My main "value" that I reach for is the one that I think every 
"hacker" programmer reaches for: to do things RIGHT. The elusive 
hacker concept of "elegance" is important here. This doesn't just apply 
to coding, but to everything an Internet-developer-webmaster-dude 
like myself might do in the course of the day. There are network 
designs that just feel "right"; there are server configurations and 
firewall rules and recursive functions and database schemas and 
coding standards and blocks of content that just seem to "click" with
some primal part of the hacker brain. These are not always the ones 
"business drivers" want; one of my greatest challenges (and 
greatest frustrations, and greatest delights) is trying to convince people 
of the joy of an elegant solution.

Be it convincing designers that fixed-width HTML layouts are evil, or 
business managers that a certain feature should be added or removed 
from the site, or management that it's worth putting some money into
accessibility, it's good to try and instil that hacker mindset in 
other people. Measuring this is not easy: but the fact is, because I 
work fundamentally on one site (it wouldn't be too hard to work out
which one, if you care), and am as close as the company in question comes 
to a technical lead, I can look at the site, and see where I have 
succeeded and where I have failed. This is something of an intangible 
measure, but then again my goals are rather nebulous anyway.

I think if I ever stopped having fun here, I would walk away: I am 
here not as a means to an end, but because I have found a job where 
I am appreciated and my talents are considered valuable. My pet hate 
is the treating of people like idiots and not giving them 
responsibility due to their youth: the fact is (modesty mode off) 
I know I'm a good programmer. I see no reason I shouldn't be able 
to take a leadership role and be rewarded appropriately because I'm 
young. Luckily, my current place of employment has given me that 
opportunity, and I appreciate and respect that. I hope that I never make
the mistake of treating someone like an idiot because of their appearance,
experience, or demeanour, instead of their intelligence and ability. 

If the intelligence and ability are lacking, however, I can be harsh.
My respect is, to be honest, a hard thing to earn: I do not suffer 
fools easily. Those peers who DO earn my respect share my love for 
doing things the right way: they love their work, and would take the 
time to do something well rather than a rush job. They would happily
fight for a principle they believed in, and not acquiesce to the merest
whim of those controlling the purse strings. I respect those who show
a bit of spine in their quest to get things done right. I respect and
look up to those who use their experience as a tool, not a crutch or
a weapon.

Anyway, that's enough from me. I look forward to reading the thoughts 
of others.

Cheers,

Paul the newly reflective



From initium at barrysworld.com  Thu Aug 30 03:04:59 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (bull3t)
Date: Thu Aug 30 03:04:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
Message-ID: <001d01c13129$dc676bb0$1036a840@home>

Don't be *TOO* brutal, but check out http://www.chaos-crew.com/bull3t/test/
and tell me what you think.

While I don't have any content yet, I think this will be my personal
information page for Web Design class.

Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks :)




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 03:09:36 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 03:09:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41> <0bb601c12fda$af0a5330$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c1312a$fec0f310$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi all

I do think I'm going to be claiming the prize for thickyness this week :(
I've installed Enterprise Manager on my home machine, and that's all fine
and dandy, however I now can't connect to the MSDE server.  Although I can
see the server running in Server Manager as localhost\NetSDK, I'm unable to
connect to it through Enterprise manager.  It just says that the server
doesn't exist.  I'm running both on the same machine, so it shouldn't be a
problem with remote management (I guess).  Does anyone have any ideas?

I'm running it all on win2k Pro, with the .net Framework SDK beta 2 and SQL
Server 7 tools

Cheers in advance

Norman




From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 03:21:40 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 30 03:21:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <p05001900b7b39c6d033f@[24.43.66.191]>

>  Why do you do what you do? What's important about that?
>  What are the values that you reach for? How do you
>  measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are
>  mentors or peers for whom you have a great respect, and
>  why?

Guess it's my turn.

I'm one of the 'my work feeds my soul' crowd. I'm first and foremost 
a creator. If I weren't building apps, I'd be building Animatronic 
toys in Hollywood. I do what I do because at the end of it I get so 
say (with childlike enthusiasm) "*I* made this!". What keeps me going 
is that each app or site has to be better than the last, and with 
each success, I revel.

I've had two important mentors, and one influential peer group in my 
professional career. The first is Dave Winer. Dave does his thing, 
and he does it with love. He asks a million questions, energetically 
gets into everything, occasionally falls and makes a fool of himself, 
then picks himself up two inches taller. He's a very bright, 
rational, responsible and human man. I get that! Though his own work, 
Dave taught me how to structure my thought, ways of approaching 
problems, and that when things get though, to get diggin'! He's 
taught me that 'work' can be it's own brand of joy.

My second mentor that I admire is the group know as BareBones. These 
people taught me what professionalism is about. BBEdit is one of the 
finest apps that I've ever had the pleasure to merge with. Any 
communication that I've ever had, whether one on one or as part of a 
list has been nothing but exemplary in crispness. Their 
communications are a marvel of conciseness and alacrity. When ever I 
turn on my 'pro mode' in dealing with clients, I try to emulate the 
BB team's manner of communicating.

My most respected peers are found here on the list. I won't name 
names, but you can either guess at who you are, or might be 
surprised. What I appreciate about this group is the ability to 
remain (mostly <g>) bullet crisp in purpose, helpful and precise in 
the information we all share. There's also a deep sense of respect. 
We keep each other in line in very gentle ways. I've never seen 
anyone trash a newbie or someone asking what some may percieve as a 
dull witted question. I think the last mild flame we had was what? A 
year or more ago?

There are a number of member's posts that I read religiously here, 
even if the topic doesn't interest me, because I know that there will 
always be a little turn of phrase that will make me look at my own 
ability to create in a new way.

In these days of commerce grinding, marketing flatulence, and the 
sheer bovine mass of the net, it's harder to find 'home'. I'm glad I 
had the 'parents' I had and the home I've found here.

Thanks!




-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 03:40:28 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 30 03:40:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy (long)
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB714E87D9@coen.wishlist.com.au>
References: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB714E87D9@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <p05001901b7b3a7d3b13a@[24.43.66.191]>

Using my words to express the same concepts...

>  I think what I love about IT is that there are any
>  number of "right ways" to do things, and anyone who
>  really 'groks' what development is all about can
>  appreciate them.

Finding the beauty of order in chaos... This is the same kind of 
feeling I get when in meditation.


>  My main "value" that I reach for is the one that I think
>  every "hacker" programmer reaches for: to do things
>  RIGHT. The elusive hacker concept of "elegance" is
>  important here. This doesn't just apply to coding, but
>  to everything an Internet-developer-webmaster-dude like
>  myself might do in the course of the day.

Pride and the love of beauty. I call this "The skill of being human."


>  there are [...] configurations and firewall rules and
>  recursive functions and database schemas and coding
>  standards and blocks of content that just seem to
>  "click" with some primal part of the hacker brain.

Yes! I get that completely, even though I don't have the words.


>  If the intelligence and ability are lacking, however, I
>  can be harsh. My respect is, to be honest, a hard thing
>  to earn: I do not suffer fools easily.

Oh no! Meritocacy!


>  Those peers who DO earn my respect share my love for
>  doing things the right way: they love their work, and
>  would take the time to do something well rather than a
>  rush job.


>  They would happily fight for a principle they believed
>  in, and not acquiesce to the merest whim of those
>  controlling the purse strings. I respect those who show
>  a bit of spine in their quest to get things done right.
>  I respect and look up to those who use their experience
>  as a tool, not a crutch or a weapon.

Self-honesty and respect, humility (which is making an *accurate 
assessment* of the value you bring)...


Wow! Great post, Paul, you've expressed many of the concepts I've 
been struggling to express for a long time very clearly.


-- 

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Aug 30 03:55:57 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Aug 30 03:55:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font's Utility...
In-Reply-To: <20010829131912.2286AC75@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010830141259.00a51ba8@mail.vsnl.net>

At 08:19 AM 8/29/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Does anyone out there know if there is a fonts utility
> >  (MAC) that will let you browse through fonts on a CD
> >  outside of your fonts folder?

Sorry for the late reply.

I've found "The Font Thing" to be an excellent utility. You can download it 
from http://www.download.com

And let me put a lame tip after that:

<tip type="managing fonts" author="Madhu Menon">

Designers often need to keep an array of typefaces at their disposal. But 
the more fonts you keep installed, the more system resources you chew up. 
Keep only your essential typefaces and store the rest elsewhere. Using a 
font viewing tool like The Font Thing or MyFonts, you can then quickly 
preview the rest and install them only when you need them.

</tip>

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net



  



From frank at loofahcom.com  Thu Aug 30 04:36:44 2001
From: frank at loofahcom.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 30 04:36:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF: grouping output by date & Access
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010830051915.009e9800@pop3.norton.antivirus>

<tip type="Cold Fusion" author="Frank Marion">
I wanted to group some articles by publication date. Easy: group by date, 
right? When using MS Access, the field type is date/time. If one use's 
Access's Now() function as the default for the field, every record will be 
different, because they will all be inserted at different times, defeating 
the ability to group by date. The solution is to insert an ODBC date 
programmatically. If no time is specified, access will still include a 
time, but will default to 00:00:00
</tip>




From hershelsr at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 05:00:19 2001
From: hershelsr at yahoo.com (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Thu Aug 30 05:00:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
References: <001d01c13129$dc676bb0$1036a840@home>
Message-ID: <007e01c13142$a11e61d0$0101c80a@hershel>

> Don't be *TOO* brutal, but check out
http://www.chaos-crew.com/bull3t/test/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> While I don't have any content yet, I think this will be my personal
> information page for Web Design class.

It's hard to tell with absolutely no content, but the layout looks basically
OK.  Why the big empty space on the left side, however?

Hershel


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Thu Aug 30 06:47:49 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Thu Aug 30 06:47:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829202928.02aef758@baratta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829214910.03456d98@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830063724.00ade6e0@redhotsweeps.com>

They are CFM (Cold Fusion) pages.  As far as I can remember, you have to 
run it through the browser.  Not "CGI" version.

Chris

At 10:31 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>At 07:51 PM 8/29/2001, you wrote:
>>Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on 
>>a nt system?  I know that you use the "at" command to call the browser 
>>with the page, but how do you get the page to close after it is done? Or, 
>>can you load ie in the background?  I searched MS knowledge base, but was 
>>unable to find anything useful.
>
>What type of web script are you trying to run? If its ASP, convert the 
>page to VBS and us AT to schedule the script. This way you by pass the IIS 
>component and run it directly.
>
>If it's Perl, your perl file extensions should be routed by the OS through 
>the Perl Interpreter even outside of the web server - so just call it 
>directly. Same with PHP if you are using the CGI version.
>---
>Anthony Baratta
>President
>Keyboard Jockeys
>
>"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From adrian at logo-logic.com  Thu Aug 30 06:52:21 2001
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian)
Date: Thu Aug 30 06:52:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL table joins
Message-ID: <005e01c13149$a1d3f200$0100000a@aussiebidder>

Hi guys and Gals,
Now I promise that I did read the online manual but I dont think it was
written with me in mind.  There was no pictures....

Im trying to check to see if an email address is already in one of several
tables and if it isnt then add it to another table.  Pretty straight forward
stuff.
The bit of code below actually works..it checks to see if the email address
exists in tblDockets and if it doesnt then inserts it into tblEmails.
Yahoo.
<snip code>
$db->do("INSERT INTO tblEmails (emailName,Email) VALUES('".
sqlEncode($form{'toname'}) . "','". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "')")
unless$db->selectrow_array("SELECT Email FROM tblDockets WHERE Email='".
sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "' OR '". sqlEncode($form{'email2'}) . "'");
</snip code>
The code doesnt work when I start trying to get it to look through a couple
of tables to see if the email address exists.  Like this
 <snip code>
$db->do("INSERT INTO tblEmails (emailName,Email) VALUES('".
sqlEncode($form{'toname'}) . "','". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "')")
unless$db->selectrow_array("SELECT Email FROM tblDockets, tblEmails, tblAds,
tblAdvise WHERE Email='". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "' OR '".
sqlEncode($form{'email2'}) . "'");
</snip code>
I have a sneaking suspicion that I cant do what I want to do.  I think I
have the right syntax for the table references before the WHERE statement
but it all turns bad after that.  Matter of fact Im sure Im not doing it
right.
The MySQL docs give this example
select * from table1,table2 where table1.id=table2.id;
which I think is totally different to what I want.
Your thoughts and comments would be appreciated (even more so if you can do
it with pictures)
Regards
Adrian Fischer
Australia




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Thu Aug 30 06:57:50 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Thu Aug 30 06:57:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript form manipulation poser
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144F4A@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Thanks to the help of several people on this list, I am within touching
distance of achieving my objective which is to successfully create an online
multiple choice quiz spanning several web pages using JavaScript to keep
track of the answers and direct the user accordingly at the end of the test.

I'm at the stage now where I think I've managed to code the pages to
successfully store the answers and pass them onto the next page but I'm at a
loss as to how I can retrieve and manipulate the data from a previous page.
In other words, how do I reference form elements on page 2 that were passed
as hidden on page 1?

To illustrate this further, I'm pasting my code below:


Any help is always greatly appreciated.



Web Page 1 - the first 3 questions


<html><head>
<title>Capital City Test</title>
</head>
<body>
<center><h2>Capital City Test</h2></center>
<form name="page1" method="get" action="page2.htm">
 <p><b>1. What is the capital of Hungary?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q1" value="Bucharest">Bucharest
<br><input type="radio" name="q1" value="Sofia">Sofia
<br><input type="radio" name="q1" value="Prague">Prague
<br><input type="radio" name="q1" value="Budapest">Budapest
<br><input type="radio" name="q1" value="Tirana">Tirana
<p><b>2. What is the capital of Chile?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q2" value="Montevideo">Montevideo
<br><input type="radio" name="q2" value="Santiago">Santiago
<br><input type="radio" name="q2" value="Caracas">Caracas
<br><input type="radio" name="q2" value="Lima">Lima
<br><input type="radio" name="q2" value="Havana">Havana
<p><b>3. What is the capital of Syria?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q3" value="Damascus">Damascus
<br><input type="radio" name="q3" value="Amman">Amman
<br><input type="radio" name="q3" value="Riyad">Riyad
<br><input type="radio" name="q3" value="Beirut">Beirut
<br><input type="radio" name="q3" value="Ankara">Ankara

<p><center><input type="submit" value="Continue"></center>
</form>
</body>
</html>


Page 2 - next 3 questions & first three answers


<html><head>
<title>page2.html</title>
<script language="javascript">
 
function getArgs(){
   var args = new Object();
   var query = location.search.substring(1);     // Get query string
   var pairs = query.split("&");                 // Split at ampersand
   search_array = query.split("&");     
   for (var i=0; i < pairs.length; i++){
       var pos = pairs[i].indexOf('=');          // Look for "name=value"
       if (pos == -1) continue;                  // If not found, skip
       var argname = pairs[i].substring(0,pos);  // Extract the name
       var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
       args[argname] = unescape(value);          // Store as a decoded value
   }
   return args;                                  // Return the object
}
 
</script>
</head>
<body onLoad="getArgs();">
<center><h2>Capital City Test - Page 2</h2></center>
<form name="page1answers" method="get" action="page3.htm">
 
 <!-- answers from page 1 -->
 <input type="hidden" name="a1" value="args[0]">
 <input type="hidden" name="a2" value="args[1]">
 <input type="hidden" name="a3" value="args[2]">
 
 <!--page 2 questions-->
<form name="page2" method="get" action="page3.htm">
 <p><b>4. What is the capital of Mongolia?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q4" value="Ouga Dougou">Ouga Dougou
<br><input type="radio" name="q4" value="Phmon Phen">Phmon Phen
<br><input type="radio" name="q4" value="Ulam Bator">Ulam Bator
<br><input type="radio" name="q4" value="Nicosia">Nicosia
<br><input type="radio" name="q4" value="Beijing">Beijing
<p><b>5. What is the capital of Iceland?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q5" value="Helsinki">Helsinki
<br><input type="radio" name="q5" value="Oslo">Oslo
<br><input type="radio" name="q5" value="Stockholm">Stockholm
<br><input type="radio" name="q5" value="Copenhagen">Copenhagen
<br><input type="radio" name="q5" value="Rejkavik">Rejkavik
<p><b>6. What is the capital of New Zealand?</b>
<p><input type="radio" name="q6" value="Canberra">Canberra
<br><input type="radio" name="q6" value="Port Talbot">Port Talbot
<br><input type="radio" name="q6" value="Cape Town">Cape Town
<br><input type="radio" name="q6" value="Wellington">Wellington
<br><input type="radio" name="q6" value="Aukland">Aukland

<p><center><input type="submit" value="Continue"></center>
</form>
</form>
</body>
</html>

page 3 - test results (not yet complete)


<html><head>
<title>page2.html</title>
<script language="javascript">
 
function getArgs(){
   var args = new Object();
   var query = location.search.substring(1);     // Get query string
   var pairs = query.split("&");                 // Split at ampersand
   search_array = query.split("&");     
   for (var i=0; i < pairs.length; i++){
       var pos = pairs[i].indexOf('=');          // Look for "name=value"
       if (pos == -1) continue;                  // If not found, skip
       var argname = pairs[i].substring(0,pos);  // Extract the name
       var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
       args[argname] = unescape(value);          // Store as a decoded value
   }
   return args;                                  // Return the object
}
 
</script>
</head>
<body onLoad="getArgs();">
<form name="page2answers" method="get" action="page3.htm">
 
 <!-- answers from page 2 -->
 <input type="hidden" name="a4" value="args[0]">
 <input type="hidden" name="a5" value="args[1]">
 <input type="hidden" name="a6" value="args[2]">
</form> 
<center><h2>Capital City Test Results</h2></center>
<p>Your answers were as follows:<p>
<script>
document.write(document.page1answers.a1);
</script>
<p>You scored x out of 6.
<p>You got the following answers wrong.
<p>Click <a href="page1.htm"> here</a> to retake the test.
</center>
</body>
</html>









Regards 
Albie Attias 
IT Manager 
Eurosimm specialise in Memory, Hard Drives, Options & Solutions for Major
Branded Systems 
Compaq / IBM / HP / Toshiba / Western Digital / Maxtor / Fujitsu / Hitachi /
Seagate / Quantum 
E-Mail:albie at eurosimm.com
Web: http://www.eurosimm.com
Tel : +44 (0) 1706 360000
Fax : +44 (0) 1706 620000 
AOL IM : AAEUROSIMM 



From pony001 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 07:07:27 2001
From: pony001 at hotmail.com (Brian Willner)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:07:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image  ?? how
Message-ID: <LAW2-F104VQQTD1T7AB0000932f@hotmail.com>

How does one go about this:
www.t-shirts.com and pick "Design Your Own" under "custom t-shirts".

The site creates dynamic jpeg images based on user input.  I've never seen 
this, and am very curious to know how to do that.

TIA,
Brian



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Aug 30 07:11:16 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:11:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image ?? how
Message-ID: <OF962C4A5E.0D2B56E1-ON80256AB8.00424F0C@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

http://www.imagemagick.org/
http://www.macromedia.com/software/generator/

I'm sure there are others.

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] dynamic JPEG image  ?? how


How does one go about this:
www.t-shirts.com and pick "Design Your Own" under "custom t-shirts".

The site creates dynamic jpeg images based on user input.  I've never seen
this, and am very curious to know how to do that.


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From eric at ohmforce.com  Thu Aug 30 07:16:20 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:16:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image ?? how
References: <OF962C4A5E.0D2B56E1-ON80256AB8.00424F0C@ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E2E76.5070504@ohmforce.com>

And the famous gd (JPG, PNG, and Gif(needs a patch though for the latter)):
http://www.boutell.com/gd/

Along with it's binding in PHP
http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.image.php

martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:

> http://www.imagemagick.org/
> http://www.macromedia.com/software/generator/


Regards,
	Eric Cestari






From genghis at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 07:19:52 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:19:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829202928.02aef758@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <BNENLILHMEBBLJGKPLEOAEEFDCAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baratta
> Sent: 30 August 2001 04:31
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
> 
> If it's Perl, your perl file extensions should be routed by the 
> OS through 
> the Perl Interpreter even outside of the web server - so just call it 
> directly. Same with PHP if you are using the CGI version.

And if you're not running the CGI version of PHP on
NT, you'll run into serious trouble soon enough...

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 07:25:23 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:25:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
In-Reply-To: <001d01c13129$dc676bb0$1036a840@home>
Message-ID: <BNENLILHMEBBLJGKPLEOAEEGDCAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of bull3t
> Sent: 30 August 2001 09:01
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
> 
> Don't be *TOO* brutal, but check out 
> http://www.chaos-crew.com/bull3t/test/
> and tell me what you think.

I'm a bit of a minimalist myself, so I like it, but...

I use a laptop and I didn't notice the graphic in the
bottom right-hand corner until I stood up to get a
coffee.  It's a little *too* pale.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 



From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 07:33:05 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:33:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL table joins
Message-ID: <01c1314f$2258b1e0$b149149a@rudy>

hi adrian

one of these days i simply must start using mysql, it looks like fun

i think i actually understood the weird "do-unless" structure


> I think I have the right syntax for the table references before the
> WHERE statement but it all turns bad after that.

yeah, i hate it when that happens

>      SELECT Email
>          FROM tblDockets
>                    , tblEmails
>                    , tblAds,
>                    , tblAdvise
>      WHERE Email='". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "'
>               OR '".sqlEncode($form{'email2'}) . "'");

you haven't provided the "join conditions" which connect only the
appropriate rows of the tables being joined

you can recognize a join condition because it operates on the columns of
two different tables

a typical three-way join would look something like this

    select a.stuff, b.stuff, c.stuff
       from a,b,c
     where a.key = b.key and b.key = c.key
         and a.foo = 'bar'

in addition to the join conditions, here you can also see a "local
predicate" which is a condition that operates on only one table

if the above example three-way join were written in sql-92 syntax, it would
be

    select a.stuff, b.stuff, c.stuff
       from a join b on a.key = b.key join c on b.key = c.key
       where a.foo = 'bar'

notice that the local predicates are all that remain in the WHERE clause


in your query, you have a local predicate on the Email column, but since
your join conditions are missing, you are getting the equivalent of a CROSS
JOIN (see Ben Dyer's tip yesterday)

since a cross join brings back a, um, boatload of records, the "unless"
part of your structure (if it works the way i assume it does, remember, i
don't use mysql) is preventing your "do" part from, um, doing


helps?


rudy




From mpember at phreaker.net  Thu Aug 30 07:47:51 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:47:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
References: <BNENLILHMEBBLJGKPLEOAEEFDCAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B8E34CD.F117868E@phreaker.net>

John Handelaar wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baratta
> > Sent: 30 August 2001 04:31
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: Re: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
> >
> > If it's Perl, your perl file extensions should be routed by the
> > OS through
> > the Perl Interpreter even outside of the web server - so just call it
> > directly. Same with PHP if you are using the CGI version.
> 
> And if you're not running the CGI version of PHP on
> NT, you'll run into serious trouble soon enough...
> 

This isn't the case.

I have PHP running as a module in Apache and have no problems using it
for most of the scripting needs with my server.

It has been of great use when combined with the Task Scheduler (cron /
at) tool.
-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Aug 30 07:48:22 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:48:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL table joins
In-Reply-To: <005e01c13149$a1d3f200$0100000a@aussiebidder>
Message-ID: <200108301248.f7UCmLE24425@leo.evolt.org>

>  <snip code>
> $db->do("INSERT INTO tblEmails (emailName,Email) VALUES('".
> sqlEncode($form{'toname'}) . "','". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "')")
> unless$db->selectrow_array("SELECT Email FROM tblDockets, tblEmails, 
> tblAds,
> tblAdvise WHERE Email='". sqlEncode($form{'email'}) . "' OR '".
> sqlEncode($form{'email2'}) . "'");
> </snip code>
> I have a sneaking suspicion that I cant do what I want to do.  I think I
> have the right syntax for the table references before the WHERE 
> statement
> but it all turns bad after that.  Matter of fact Im sure Im not doing it
> right.
> The MySQL docs give this example
> select * from table1,table2 where table1.id=table2.id;
> which I think is totally different to what I want.
> Your thoughts and comments would be appreciated (even more so if you 
> can do
> it with pictures)


If I read this right, you may be mistaking a "join" for a "union". A 
join brings together two tables on a primary key-foreign key 
relationship. And a union brings together rows from tables with similar 
columns. In the result of a union query you would see the results from 
one table and the results for a second table appended to those. A sample 
union query might look like:

select fname, lname, email from my_users
union
select fname, lname, email from your_users

However, MySQL 3.23.x doesn't support unions. There a couple of 
workarounds available. Try using the non-standard CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE 
syntax along with a select statement:

CREATE TEMPORARY table my_table
select fname, lname, email from my_users;

  You can then insert results from additional tables by coupling an 
insert and a select statement:

insert into my_table
select fname, lname, email, from your_users;

You can then check to see if my_table contains any rows.

select count(*) from my_table;




From genghis at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 07:59:07 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:59:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <3B8E34CD.F117868E@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <BNENLILHMEBBLJGKPLEOAEEIDCAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Pemberton
> Sent: 30 August 2001 13:43
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
>
> > And if you're not running the CGI version of PHP on
> > NT, you'll run into serious trouble soon enough...
> > 
> 
> This isn't the case.
> 
> I have PHP running as a module in Apache and have no problems using it
> for most of the scripting needs with my server.

OK - 

If you're running *IIS* instead of an unsupported NT web server
which Apache Group itself recommends against using other than
for testing purposes, the non-CGI version of PHP is prone to
spectacular meltdowns.

Then again, the CGI version was leaking memory like a bastard
until 3 weeks ago.  Most people simply never notice because they don't
carry 50k+ pages through it every day.

Don't take that as MS evangelism, btw - Apache 1.x just doesn't
cut it for high-volume work on NT.  Apache 2 probably will, and
at that point we'll probably start using it.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 




From chris at chrisg.com  Thu Aug 30 07:59:36 2001
From: chris at chrisg.com (Chris Garrett)
Date: Thu Aug 30 07:59:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image  ?? how
References: <LAW2-F104VQQTD1T7AB0000932f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <005001c13155$4c194430$078c89d4@CHRIS>

ASP.NET can do this easily
http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/default.asp?article=12

I have used GD and imageMagick, but .NET beats it hands down IMO :O)

Chris

--
                 Me: http://chrisg.com
  ASP/.NET Articles: http://www.realworldasp.net/
ASP/.NET Newsletter: http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/subscribe.asp

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Willner" <pony001 at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image ?? how


> How does one go about this:
> www.t-shirts.com and pick "Design Your Own" under "custom t-shirts".
>
> The site creates dynamic jpeg images based on user input.  I've never seen
> this, and am very curious to know how to do that.
>
> TIA,
> Brian
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 08:19:52 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Thu Aug 30 08:19:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image  ?? how
References: <LAW2-F104VQQTD1T7AB0000932f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <007801c13155$ca16d640$ad34a8c0@issntdev41>

In an ASP environment, have a look at ASPImage
(http://www.serverobjects.com)

Ed Courtenay
http://www.edcourtenay.co.uk

"We've all heard that a million monkeys on a million
keyboards would eventually come up with the entire
works of Shakespeare - thanks to the Internet, we now
know this isn't true...."


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Willner" <pony001 at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image ?? how


> How does one go about this:
> www.t-shirts.com and pick "Design Your Own" under "custom t-shirts".
>
> The site creates dynamic jpeg images based on user input.  I've never seen
> this, and am very curious to know how to do that.
>
> TIA,
> Brian
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From bev at enso-company.com  Thu Aug 30 08:29:01 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 08:29:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41> <0bb601c12fda$af0a5330$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <002d01c1312a$fec0f310$0b01a8c0@meg>
Message-ID: <0fad01c13157$e5c763d0$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>

Not sure why, or if it really matters, but I always thought you had to run
that MSDE stuff on Win2k server?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Beresford" <n.beresford at anansi.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:08 AM
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd


> Hi all
>
> I do think I'm going to be claiming the prize for thickyness this week :(
> I've installed Enterprise Manager on my home machine, and that's all fine
> and dandy, however I now can't connect to the MSDE server.  Although I can
> see the server running in Server Manager as localhost\NetSDK, I'm unable
to
> connect to it through Enterprise manager.  It just says that the server
> doesn't exist.  I'm running both on the same machine, so it shouldn't be a
> problem with remote management (I guess).  Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> I'm running it all on win2k Pro, with the .net Framework SDK beta 2 and
SQL
> Server 7 tools
>
> Cheers in advance
>
> Norman
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From norman.bunn at mindspring.com  Thu Aug 30 08:30:54 2001
From: norman.bunn at mindspring.com (Norman Bunn)
Date: Thu Aug 30 08:30:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010829214910.03456d98@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <006701c13156$96d9f720$0201a8c0@com>

The best tool I have found is ArcanaScheduler for NT.

http://www.arcanadev.com/scheduler/

Norman

> Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on a
> nt system?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris





From bonpaul at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 08:35:50 2001
From: bonpaul at bigfoot.com (Bonnie Fitzgerald)
Date: Thu Aug 30 08:35:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question...
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01> <p05001902b7b33e412b77@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <002d01c13158$7e0626e0$482be740@bhszd01>

Thanks for your thoughts Frank.

I might be using a bitmap not a vector-based font - will look into this a
bit more!

Appreciate your help.

Cheers,
Bonnie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS Question...


> >  I'm wondering if someone can tell me if there is a CSS
> >  text property for enabling anti-alias. I find that when
> >  I use css, the text edges are very choppy and I would
> >  like to display them with an anti-alias look without
> >  having to resort to a graphic.
>
>
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answer is No.
> Anti-aliasing of text is taken care of by the browser (which is in
> turn taken care of by the OS).
>
> If you've got a case of the jaggies, I would recommend looking at the
> following items:
>
> 1) The font on your particular machine is bitmap, not vector based.
>
> 2) The particular size (too small or weird: 11.423pt) makes it hard
> for your machine to deal with nicely.
>
> 3) The font you've specified is unavailable and has been substituted
> for an alternate.
>
> 4) An anti-aliasing gremlin was hungry and started nibbling on your
font-edges.
>
> --
>
> I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once.
>
> Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
> frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com
>




From liz.hincks at tufts.edu  Thu Aug 30 09:21:30 2001
From: liz.hincks at tufts.edu (Elizabeth Hincks)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:21:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01>
 <p05001902b7b33e412b77@[24.43.66.191]> <002d01c13158$7e0626e0$482be740@bhszd01>
Message-ID: <3B8E4AD4.688D3986@tufts.edu>

Hi folks,
    I'm a bit desperate for a solution.  I have several word perfect files
that have mathematical formulas inside the document.  I want to put these on
the web.

I can't create PDFs from them....or does a later version of WP have that
option?

I have tried saving them as word files...but the equations don't show up.  I
tried installing something called an "equation editor" into word but it still
doesn't see the formulas.

I tried cutting and pasting the formulas ....If there is a solution ...please
let me know!
thanks,
Liz

--
-------
Elizabeth L. Hincks
liz.hincks at tufts.edu
http://www.fletcher.tufts.edu





From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 09:24:15 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:24:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108300924090.31950-100000@leo.evolt.org>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:14:12 -0300
From: Juan Manuel Lucero <jmlucero at webicarus.com>
To: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Hosting

Hi Marcia. I think Your-site is the one for you.
$60 per year or $7 per month.

No set-up fee
50 MB
6 Gb transfer
25 pop3 email accounts
Statistics
+ PHP, CGI....plus more

see their site: www.your-site.com

I have 4 small sites hosted there and no problems yet (I mean, no BIG
problems).
Their tech support is fair enough.

Juan.
Icarus Dise?os Interactivos
www.webicarus.com

>From: Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Hosting
>Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001, 8:54 AM
>

> Hi
> Just for my personal web design site and in the range
> of maybe $8.00-$15.00 a month.
> Thanks
> Marcia





From nonzero at well.com  Thu Aug 30 09:38:49 2001
From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:38:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
Message-ID: <000f01c13161$41606670$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>

Hey all, what's a good browser resizer app for Windows?  I need something
that will snap a browser to fixed screen widths for development.

I want one that does both IE and netscape.
{
 Kevin D. White
 Salt Lake City, UT
 nonzero at well.com
}




From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Aug 30 09:44:40 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:44:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
In-Reply-To: <000f01c13161$41606670$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108301538030.27128-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

> Hey all, what's a good browser resizer app for Windows?  I need something
> that will snap a browser to fixed screen widths for development.
> 
> I want one that does both IE and netscape.

For a quick, easy (and free!) solution there are some window resizing
bookmarklets available on these pages:

Netscape:
http://www.bookmarklets.com/tools/windowing/index.phtml

IE:
http://www.bookmarklets.com/tools/windowing/indexE.phtml


Hope that helps,

Simon





From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 09:45:59 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:45:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F70FCB3@BOOTROS>

Hi Liz,

You might want to look into MathML: http://www.w3.org/Math/

I'm not sure what the browser support is like, but it's a markup language
designed for displaying formulae - you can see some examples as part of the
spec at
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WD-MathML2-19991222/chapter2.html#fund:examples

It will probably require a fair amount of work on your part to convert all
the formulae to MathML but it might be your best bet at getting them on the
web - although there's probably another much easier way that someone is
going to post about in the next 5 mins :-)

HTH
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Hincks [mailto:liz.hincks at tufts.edu]
Sent: 30 August 2001 15:17
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web


Hi folks,
    I'm a bit desperate for a solution.  I have several word perfect files
that have mathematical formulas inside the document.  I want to put these on
the web.

I can't create PDFs from them....or does a later version of WP have that
option?

I have tried saving them as word files...but the equations don't show up.  I
tried installing something called an "equation editor" into word but it
still
doesn't see the formulas.

I tried cutting and pasting the formulas ....If there is a solution
...please
let me know!
thanks,
Liz



**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 09:51:23 2001
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:51:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
In-Reply-To: <000f01c13161$41606670$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAMEGMFKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

This is my favourite:

http://www.jugglesaver.co.uk/sizer.html


I love my NEO - instantly organized email
http://www.caelo.com/a/rl.php3?i=3NTVV




From fgorton at figleaf.com  Thu Aug 30 09:54:21 2001
From: fgorton at figleaf.com (Frank Gorton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:54:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
Message-ID: <24C2F50005C0D4119D750008C7D3820D010636A6@figdcaexc1.figleaf.com>

This is the one I have used for years and works great.

http://www.applythis.com//browsersizer/


Frank
--
Frank Gorton
Senior Project Manager

............................................................................
......................
Fig Leaf Software    			http://www.figleaf.com
1400 16th Street NW, 			office:  202.797.6518
Suite 500                   			
Washington, DC 20036                           fax:     202.797.5444  
............................................................................
......................



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin D. White [mailto:nonzero at well.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app


Hey all, what's a good browser resizer app for Windows?  I need something
that will snap a browser to fixed screen widths for development.

I want one that does both IE and netscape.
{
 Kevin D. White
 Salt Lake City, UT
 nonzero at well.com
}


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 10:00:11 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:00:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] metadata
Message-ID: <01c13163$d009a1a0$b149149a@rudy>

http://www.well.com/~doctorow/metacrap.htm

i laughed

i cried

i need to go lie down now


rudy

p.s. more on metadata soon, as it pertains to the evolt database









From mknepher at bluethingy.com  Thu Aug 30 10:04:05 2001
From: mknepher at bluethingy.com (Michael Knepher)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:04:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01> <p05001902b7b33e412b77@[24.43.66.191]> <002d01c13158$7e0626e0$482be740@bhszd01> <3B8E4AD4.688D3986@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <001301c13164$9c8d96a0$6e00a8c0@pacbell.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Hincks" <liz.hincks at tufts.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 7:16 AM
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web


> Hi folks,
>     I'm a bit desperate for a solution.  I have several word perfect files
> that have mathematical formulas inside the document.  I want to put these
on
> the web.
>
> I can't create PDFs from them....or does a later version of WP have that
> option?

The newest version of WordPerfect (2002) has built-in support for creating
PDFs. I haven't tried that feature out yet, so I'm not sure how well it
works.

> I tried cutting and pasting the formulas ....If there is a solution
...please
> let me know!

It's a bit brute force, and may not give you the result you want, but have
you considered taking screenshots and stripping out the formulas as
graphics?

Michael Knepher




From nonzero at well.com  Thu Aug 30 10:06:23 2001
From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:06:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
References: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAMEGMFKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002b01c13165$1b54e150$5501330a@marchfirstslc.com>

Okay, that's just about the sweetest little utility app I've seen in a
while.
What will you wacky Brits think of next?

Cheers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Crockford" <tonyc at boldfish.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] browser resizer app


>
> This is my favourite:
>
> http://www.jugglesaver.co.uk/sizer.html
>
>
> I love my NEO - instantly organized email
> http://www.caelo.com/a/rl.php3?i=3NTVV
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From initium at barrysworld.com  Thu Aug 30 10:10:52 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (Jeremy Payne)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:10:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
Message-ID: <200108301605.AA848429724@barrysworld.com>

>I use a laptop and I didn't notice the graphic in the
>bottom right-hand corner until I stood up to get a
>coffee.  It's a little *too* pale.

thanks! i will get that fixed soon :)



From initium at barrysworld.com  Thu Aug 30 10:13:24 2001
From: initium at barrysworld.com (Jeremy Payne)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:13:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
Message-ID: <200108301608.AA786891314@barrysworld.com>

>Why the big empty space on the left side, however?


I've yet to build any pages to go with it, which explains the empty left-side menu. When I am finished, there will be plenty of navigation links, and maybe even a few link buttons. :)



From chris at fuseware.com  Thu Aug 30 10:14:00 2001
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:14:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830063724.00ade6e0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <000401c13165$c6b96020$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>

Why not use the CFScheduler if they are CF pages?


Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com

 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 





From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Thu Aug 30 10:14:27 2001
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:14:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop tip
Message-ID: <4633834D5345D5119F9F00508BB02DED04CE79@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aardvark [mailto:roselli at earthlink.net]


> Need to select every other row of pixels in a Photoshop document? 
>  Tired of manually doing it?  Well, fret no more, there's an easier 
> way.
>

You can also do this by using the ditherbox filter 

<tip type="Photoshop">
Create a new layer and fill it with any color.
then select filter > other > DitherBox
The default size is 2 x 2 (a 4 pixel box) - leave it selected.  Move your
mouse over the color palette and select black.  Fill in 2 of the squares
with the color - either vertically or horizontally.  Select "fill."  Your
new layer is now filled with black and white single pixel lines.  You can
then use the color range to select either the black or the white, then
delete the layer.

DitherBox is a very handy tool.  You can make other sizes as well.  4 X 4
for instance will give you 2 pixel wide lines.  You can make different
colors and save them by clicking "new" before "fill"  Use them for
background fills when you want a more interesting texture than just a solid
color.
</tip>

Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Thu Aug 30 10:31:43 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:31:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question...
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01>
Message-ID: <006e01c13168$3a1a81a0$2860398a@newcos.com>

Bonnie,

> I'm wondering if someone can tell me if there is a CSS text property for
> enabling anti-alias. I find that when I use css, the text edges are very

    No, there isn't. Currently, this is simply a function of the operating
system and/or browser. FWIW, in IE 4+, you can check to see whether a user
has font-smoothing enabled:

<script type="text/javascript">

  if (document.all)
  {
    if (!screen.fontSmoothingEnabled)
    {
      // display a message, or a link to a message, describing
      // the benefits of font-smoothing, and how to enable it, etc.
    }
  }

</script>

James Aylard




From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Thu Aug 30 10:33:14 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:33:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management
References: <3A47CE0763EBB34782D630AC3A52FF37044ECB@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com> <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg> <0b8901c12fcd$47d5a730$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <014501c12fd0$5efbd530$dd34a8c0@issntdev41>
Message-ID: <3B8E5BA3.9020101@nc.rr.com>

(resend, never showed for me.  apologies if you get this twice.)

Ed Courtenay wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong - but MSDE *is* 
essentially a runtime MSSQL

No need for a correction, you're right on the money.  To quote 
Microsoft, "[MSDE] Is fully compatible with Microsoft SQL Server 7.0 and 
SQL Server technologies."

The MSDE engine is simply a scale-constrained version of the SQL7 
engine.   As far as I can tell from the documentation, the only 
limitations imposed are a database size limit of 2GB and a tuning for 
best performance with 5 or fewer concurrent connections.  There is no 
indication of precisely what this tuning consists of.  There also 
appears to be no hard limit on connections, just the expectation that 
performance could be expected to suffer at some point above this.

Once installed the MSDE server runs as a service under WinNT or 2000. It 
shows up as "MSSQL Server" in the services list.  It will run on 
Win95/98 but will lack some features.  MSDE databases can be designed 
and administered using SQL Enterprise Manager (installed choosing the 
"client tools" option) or Access 2000.

Once MSDE is installed, it is available as the engine for Access 2000. 
New databases are created as new Access Projects.  This results in 
non-data objects (Queries, Reports, Forms, etc.) residing in the Access 
project file, while the data itself is hosted by the MSDE engine.  What 
you end up with are user-friendly workgroup data apps, using the 
familiar Access interface, but with the data stored in a much more 
robust, manageable, and ultimately very scalable engine.  When needs 
grow beyond the MSDE engine, the data can be migrated to a full scale 
SQL server and the the Access app can be linked to that datasource 
without requiring modification.

MSDE has SQL7's full internal security model, and supports Windows 
security integation.

MSDE works very well as a part of my web application development 
environment.  My data is eventually hosted on a remote SQL7 server.  I 
can host a local MSDE server that is completely under my control.  I 
develop using the SQL7 Enterprise Manager tool.  When the time is right, 
it is trivial to load that db into a full scale SQL7 server for 
integration, testing and deployment.  It is also simple to move 
production data back to my local server for maintennance and iterative 
development.

All in all, this is an enormous upgrade for Access users who had been 
constrained by the limits of the Jet database engine.  It is also very 
useful for organizations using SQL7 that do distributed development.  If 
there is any inkling that a database might eventually be upsized to SQL 
server, developing in MSDE can be an excellent choice.

Apologies if this sounds like an advertisement, but I've been very 
pleased with MSDE.  MS has not gone out of it's way to advertise this 
engine, and I find that many developers aren't fully aware of what it 
is, and how they might use it.  In fact, in many instances it is a very 
low cost, fully functional alternative to a SQL server implementation. 
In my case, I get more control over anther component of my development 
platform.

More information from MS, including licensing, costs, and installation 
(watch wrap): 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/backgrnd/html/msdeforvs.htm

As to Norman's original question... I believe you will need the 
Enterprise Manager app to restore from a db backup file.

--rt

Norman Beresford wrote: ...it only includes instructions on adding it 
through SQL Server Enterprise Manager, and for the life of me I can't 
find this mentioned in the MSDE documentation anywhere.





From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 10:40:34 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:40:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web
Message-ID: <01c13169$75e2a7c0$b149149a@rudy>

> although there's probably another much easier way that 
> someone is going to post about in the next 5 mins :-)

hi jon

hey, i waited, really i did

dunno if it's easier, but one way i've seen it done is with gifs 
for the formulae

that don't work for aural browsers, unless you load up the
alt text with some kind of the text equivalent of the formulae

actually, a pure text approach might do, but you'd need a
mathematician to proofread the results

for simple formulae, there are notational conventions that 
could be used, e.g. e=lim[n->inf](1+1/n)**n

for more complex stuff, perhaps simple words would suffice, 
e.g. 

   e is the limit, as n approaches infinity, of 
       the nth power of the sum of 1 and 1/n

at least with gifs you can delegate the task to a rookie -- 
print, scan, cut, paste, optimize palette, save as

and if the only person you can delegate to is yourself,
then at least the task is fairly straightforward and requires
little in the way of thinking while you're at it, as long as
there aren't literally hundreds of them...


rudy

p.s. it helps to see the series to understand this definition
of e (above), also known as euler's number  --
   
   (1 + 1/1)**1 = 2
   (1 + 1/2)**2 = 2.25
   (1 + 1/3)**3 = 2.37037...
   (1 + 1/4)**4 = 2.44140...
   ...
   (1 + 1/64)**64= 2.69734


e to 1000 decimal places --

  http://www.math.utah.edu/~alfeld/math/e.html





From mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com  Thu Aug 30 10:47:14 2001
From: mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com (arch)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:47:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hosting
Message-ID: <20010830154231.TWED22979.mta05.onebox.com@onebox.com>

Hi Marcia:

Besides the price, I guess server choice depends on other requirements
(UNIX/NT/2000, PHP, ASP, e-mails, space, etc.) The one I am using is
www.your-site.com which is more than affordable ($ 5/month if you prepay
$ 60/year) and includes 50 MB disk space, 25 pop3 e-mail accounts, cgi,
php, and more. My experience with them was very positive - always had
fast responses, great tech support... Anyway, if you decide to go with
them, please use me as a reference :-)

Other than that, Happy Thursday!

----------------------------- 
::: Arthur Chidlovski :::
Digital Me-Mix in the Browser
http://www.chidlovski.com/


---- Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi
> Just for my personal web design site and in the range
> of maybe $8.00-$15.00 a month.  
> Thanks
> Marcia
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 

___________________________________________________________________
To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax,
all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com




From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 10:50:02 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:50:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108301049560.31950-100000@leo.evolt.org>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:41:16 -0500
From: Susan Wallace <susanhw at webcastle.com>
To: thelist at evolt.org
Subject: Writing for the Web

Greetings!

I have a client that is going to embark on a mission to bring more 
interesting information to their clients by interviewing and reviewing 
materials specific to their industry. I explained to him that writing for 
the web is much different than writing for print (and please don't make us 
read another formulaic artist interview!) and he came back to me with the 
question "Where can I learn more about how to write for the web?"

A Google search turned up a reference at sun.com that was from 1998, and a 
reference to Jakob Nielsens site.

http://www.sun.com/980713/webwriting/

and

http://www.useit.com/papers/webwriting/

The items at Nielsens site seem to be a good starting point, but I am not a 
content writer, so I am not a good judge. In addition to these items, are 
there any books or other sites that you would recommend? This person has 
*decent* writing skills by my uninformed judgement, but he is not a trained 
writer, if that helps with pointing out references.

TIA!
Susan




From jridout at acep.org  Thu Aug 30 10:55:09 2001
From: jridout at acep.org (Jeremy Ridout)
Date: Thu Aug 30 10:55:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
Message-ID: <6195000EC0D8D411885700105AA2C0A00EDDC6@SERVER04>

There are several books on the subject ("writing for the web")... do an
Amazon or BN search and you'll find about 15 matches.

Good luck
Jeremy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:djc at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:50 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:41:16 -0500
> From: Susan Wallace <susanhw at webcastle.com>
> To: thelist at evolt.org
> Subject: Writing for the Web
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> I have a client that is going to embark on a mission to bring more 
> interesting information to their clients by interviewing and 
> reviewing 
> materials specific to their industry. I explained to him that 
> writing for 
> the web is much different than writing for print (and please 
> don't make us 
> read another formulaic artist interview!) and he came back to 
> me with the 
> question "Where can I learn more about how to write for the web?"
> 
> A Google search turned up a reference at sun.com that was 
> from 1998, and a 
> reference to Jakob Nielsens site.
> 
> http://www.sun.com/980713/webwriting/
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.useit.com/papers/webwriting/
> 
> The items at Nielsens site seem to be a good starting point, 
> but I am not a 
> content writer, so I am not a good judge. In addition to 
> these items, are 
> there any books or other sites that you would recommend? This 
> person has 
> *decent* writing skills by my uninformed judgement, but he is 
> not a trained 
> writer, if that helps with pointing out references.
> 
> TIA!
> Susan
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From gina at sitediva.com  Thu Aug 30 11:02:17 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:02:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLEEKLLAAA.gina@sitediva.com>

|Why do you do what you do? What's important about that?
|What are the values that you reach for? How do you
|measure whether you've fulfilled them or not?
|Who are mentors or peers for whom you have a great
|respect, and why?

Whoa, interesting questions. I'll bite. First a bit o'
background or some of this won't make sense--

	I got into web design purely as a 'fluke'--kinda. I used to
be a
	hairdresser (grin), and I got an illness that screwed up my
sense
	of balance. What used to be up was down all of a sudden. I
had to
	quit my former job immediately--obviously, sharp
instruments in
	the hands of a dizzy hairdresser is the stuff of nightmares
for
	most people, so I left far before unintended Mohawks became
the
	signature haircut for all my clients.

	After about a year of sitting (lying) down, I started
getting
	*really* bored in a scary sort of way. Obviously I had to
find
	something to do or I was going to go nuts--so I thought
making
	a web page might be fun--voila, a new found career. :) From
	quitting my former job to today is a period of 5 years.
	It's been a long durn haul--

So 'why' I do web design falls into lots of things. Mostly,
it keeps me sane, because though I am much better today and
able to hit deadlines no problem, I still can't drive
safely--so if it weren't for web design I would be a stay ay
home wife in a straight jacket ;-) It means more than money,
though it helps *alot*. I have a perfect fit for my born
artistic tendencies, love of the net and technology, and
being forced to work from home. Quitting my former job was a
blessing in disguise, because I *love* web design, and if I
got 100% better tomorrow, I'd still do it.

What's important about why I do it is what I've accomplished
and made out of, pretty much, a disaster. The values/goals I
reach for is to become exceptional at what I do, honesty and
integrity in myself and my work, and professionalism. I
measure if I fulfilled them by what other professionals say,
because that's usually the most truthful gauge you're gonna
get.

Mentors or peers I have great respect for--Eric Engelmann,
Andrea Belk, and Samantha McGuin from Geonetric
Technologies. Unknowingly, they gave me *way* more than a
huge opportunity to do a great deal of subcontracting work,
they gave teaching, support, and friendship. Just great
people all around to work with, who know their stuff and do
outstanding work. I've learned alot from them, and they made
an impact on my life in general, not only in the web design
biz but personally as well.

Geez, what a blow hard. That's it, before I bore someone to
death out there.
Gina

------------------------------------------------------------
Gina Anderson
gina at sitediva.com
Subcontractor/Freelancer
http://www.sitediva.com (when I get enough time to finish
it)
------------------------------------------------------------







From james.wampler at hotpop.com  Thu Aug 30 11:18:13 2001
From: james.wampler at hotpop.com (James Wampler)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:18:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <006901c1316e$2f943450$b3ae799f@WAMPLERJAMES2>

While this is an awfully profound topic for this early in the morning, I
will see if I can't frame a coherent answer.  My current job, and I do
consider it a job, not a career, is for a state agency working on their web
page.  I put in my 8 hours everyday, then go home and work on my passion,
which is my home network.

I have a small five computer network, running an amalgamation of Windows,
Linux, and Mac OS.  I spend hours trying to get all five machines to play
nice with each other, much to my girlfriends dismay, and sometimes succeed.
Mostly, I just like to tinker with new things, learn new technologies, which
is what got me started in web development in the first place.  That is my
passion.  My job just keeps me in hard drives and RAM.

-James Wampler
james.wampler at hotpop.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:33 PM
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy


>
> Overtime as I interact with members of different yet related
> professions I find that people generally fall into two classes: those
> for whom their profession is merely a means of sustenance, and those
> whose profession is a passion, and is an important soul feeding
> activity.
>
> We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from
> novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about
> your own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's
> important about that? What are the values that you reach for? How do
> you measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or
> peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?
>
> --
>
> I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once.
>
> Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
> frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Thu Aug 30 11:19:29 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:19:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] referencing js variables
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144F6D@EUROSIMMLTD01>

I am currently trying to successfully create an online multiple choice quiz
spanning several web pages using JavaScript to sore the user's answers and
direct them appropriately at the end of the test. More specifically, I'm
passing the user's answers from one page to the next using the get method
within my form and then parsing the arguments from the URL. These arguments
are then passed on to the next page as hidden form elements.

The problem I have is that I don't know how to reference and manipulate the
answers (that I've hopefully stored and passed on correctly) on the final
page of the test. 

To illustrate this further, I've published my efforts so far on the web.
Take a peek and you'll see what I'm trying to achieve.

http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm


Can anyone give me the crucial piece of coding I need to reference the
user's answers on page 3?

 
Regards 

Albie Attias 

IT Manager 

Eurosimm specialise in Memory, Hard Drives, Options & Solutions for Major
Branded Systems 

Compaq / IBM / HP / Toshiba / Western Digital / Maxtor / Fujitsu / Hitachi /
Seagate / Quantum 

E-Mail: albie at eurosimm.com <mailto:albie at eurosimm.com> 
Web: http://www.eurosimm.com <http://www.eurosimm.com/> 
Tel : +44 (0) 1706 360000
Fax : +44 (0) 1706 620000 

AOL IM : AAEUROSIMM 



From kevin at brasscannon.net  Thu Aug 30 11:26:00 2001
From: kevin at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:26:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java-based Download Manager?
Message-ID: <20010830120428.B2576@brasscannon1>

Got a request from one of the guys here at the ISP for a
"download manager" tool written in Java -- one of those
thingies that downloads to a viewer's machine and then
helps them download a larger file, restart a broken download,
etc. etc.  But it's gotta be in Java.  Anybody seen one?

<tip type="Windows editors" author="digger">
In the Windows world, EditPad (www.jgsoft.com), lives up to its claim
to be "the best postcardware editor on earth."  EditPad Pro is only
$29.95 and outperforms an editor that cost me ten times as much.
</tip>



From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Thu Aug 30 11:29:54 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:29:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Limits?
References: <20010830120428.B2576@brasscannon1>
Message-ID: <006401c1316d$b9747d20$0300a8c0@Home>

Hi,
You will all have seen those buttons that when you click onto a page, the
button relating to that page is highlighted. Does anyone know if there is a
way to do this in CSS?
I don't even know how it is done anyway, but I suspect Javascript. But I
can't use Javascript for various reasons.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards
Gary





From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Aug 30 11:30:35 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:30:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <00d701c13170$5ba717e0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

Can I do both? (have the passion, and work because I need to) I have to work
(four kids demanding to be fed frequently) otherwise, quite seriously, I'd
probably be a hobo. But at least, I get to do something I love, which is the
only reason I can make a decent living - because when I was doing work I
hated, no matter how hard I worked; no matter how many hours I put in, I
never got anywhere. One day, I quit my dead end job and announced to my wife
that if we were going to live in poverty, I was at least going to do
something I enjoyed, and she agreed.

Within three months I'd tripled my income with virtually no effort
whatsoever. I'm back to working in an office again (they made me an offer I
couldn't refuse) but I'm doing what I love, and when I stop loving it, I'm
going home again.

I wasted 25 years in the working world thinking that I had to choose between
the paycheck and the payoff. Don't do it. Mediocrity is pain.

The company I work for is inventing a way to give you wireless
video/audio/whatever in your home. It's going to impact a lot of people all
over the world when it takes off. It's thrilling to be part of something
that I think really is the Next Big Thing. However, we're growing so fast
that sometimes folks find themselves running beside their bicycle because
they don't have time to stop and get on. My whole raison d'?tre is to make
sure they have all the info they need, in a format they need, without
unnecessary effort on their part. I absolutely love making technology
accessible to folks who otherwise wouldn't use it. [Side note: world class
engineers with PhDs don't automatically know about computers, databases, or
the web.]

My mentors are my co-workers. These folks strive for perfection, and they
deliver. If it's any hint re: my success at acheiving my goals, they
consider me an equal. Being equal to giants is pretty awesome.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:33 PM
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy


>
> Overtime as I interact with members of different yet related
> professions I find that people generally fall into two classes: those
> for whom their profession is merely a means of sustenance, and those
> whose profession is a passion, and is an important soul feeding
> activity.
>
> We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from
> novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about
> your own, personal work philosophy. Why do you do what you do? What's
> important about that? What are the values that you reach for? How do
> you measure whether you've fulfilled them or not? Who are mentors or
> peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?
>
> --
>
> I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once.
>
> Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
> frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From janice at discoverysystems.com  Thu Aug 30 11:31:33 2001
From: janice at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:31:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site display in Netscape - HELP!
Message-ID: <B7B3E197.C0FA%janice@discoverysystems.com>

Greetings evolters...

We have designed a site with ColdFusion and all is going quite well...
except... viewing the pages in Netscape (argh).

Believe it may have something to do with stylesheets but, as much as I've
played around with them, can't seem to make them behave.

Here's the site

http://glenwood.rasin.com/

Here's the issues...

None of the headings or side left navigation items are showing up in bold on
Windows -NN Macintosh is doing fine with this one.

Making the page quite narrow makes the bottom middle left column 'bleed'
into the right (not quite sure how it can even do that since these are table
cells) on both Mac and Windows instead of flowing down the table cell.

Any insights or suggestions?

With many thanks!

Janice





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 11:34:08 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:34:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10A@arnold.bedrock.com>

| Not sure why, or if it really matters, but I always thought 
| you had to run
| that MSDE stuff on Win2k server?
|

Hi Bev,

That is only if you want server-like reliability. You can, should you be so,
ah, interesting, run it on Windows 95. Though you loose out on the ability
to use SMP, then.

<rory disposition="kindly" alt="8)"/>



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 11:37:35 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:37:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10B@arnold.bedrock.com>

| Although I can
| see the server running in Server Manager as localhost\NetSDK, 
| I'm unable to
| connect to it through Enterprise manager.  

Do you mean the Windows Server Manager? So, then, NetSDK would be your
NetBIOS name?

| It just says that 
| the server
| doesn't exist.  I'm running both on the same machine, so it 
| shouldn't be a
| problem with remote management (I guess).  Does anyone have any ideas?

Can you make a new SQL Server Registration with the IP address, i.e.
127.0.0.1?

<rory disposition="curious" alt="8}"/>



From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 11:37:42 2001
From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (kristina)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:37:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
In-Reply-To: <00d701c13170$5ba717e0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]>
 <00d701c13170$5ba717e0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <12832812471.20010830173308@kfx-design.co.uk>

spinhead,

 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
: Being equal to giants is pretty awesome.
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

made me smile - thanks

;o)

i owe a BIG tip........

-- 

 kristina                      

kristina at kfx-design.co.uk


"When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters.
One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity."
-- John F. Kennedy




From bharoche at usa.net  Thu Aug 30 11:51:50 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:51:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Limits?
References: <20010830120428.B2576@brasscannon1> <006401c1316d$b9747d20$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <008b01c13173$69445310$9865fea9@Laptop>

> You will all have seen those buttons that when you click onto a page, the
> button relating to that page is highlighted. Does anyone know if there is
a
> way to do this in CSS?


It's typically done with javascript to dynamically change a CSS style on
some event like mouseOver.

Without using javascript, the best I can think of is to set a different link
background color and text for the hover and active states.  Here's an
example:

.foo a:link {
 background : #ffffff;
 color : #996633;
 text-decoration : underline;
}

.foo a:visited {
 background : #ffffff;
 color : #996633;
 text-decoration : underline;
}

.foo a:hover {
 background : #7086C2;
 color : #FFFFFF;
 text-decoration : none;
}

.foo a:active {
 background : #7086C2;
 color : #FFFFFF;
 text-decoration : none;
}

--------

HTH.


Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 11:58:15 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 30 11:58:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Limits?
Message-ID: <01c13174$4ebc1180$e651149a@rudy>

> You will all have seen those buttons that 
> when you click onto a page, the button 
> relating to that page is highlighted. 

or grayed out or inactivated, e.g. a nav bar link is 
not actually a link when it would send you to the
same page the link is on (if you know what i mean)

> But I can't use Javascript for various reasons.

XSSI extended server side includes, using logic 
like "if this is this page, show text, else a link"

example:

   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /home/" -->Home
      <!--#else --><a href="home.html">Home</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /products/" -->Products
      <!--#else --><a href="products.html">Products</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /faq/" -->FAQ
      <!--#else --><a href="faq.html">FAQ</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /contact/" -->Contact
      <!--#else --><a href="contact.html">Contact</a><!--#endif -->

for the above to work, you need to set a variable at the top of each page,
but it's always the same line, so it can also go in an inlcude file --

    <!--#set var="thisis" value="${DOCUMENT_NAME}" -->



rudy
http://rudy.ca/






From GregHolmes at aol.com  Thu Aug 30 12:01:51 2001
From: GregHolmes at aol.com (GregHolmes at aol.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:01:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] wordperfect docs with math formulas on the web
Message-ID: <8b.bb21262.28bfca60@aol.com>

"Elizabeth Hincks" <liz.hincks at tufts.edu> wrote:
> I'm a bit desperate for a solution.  I have several word perfect files
> that have mathematical formulas inside the document.  I want to put these
> on the web.
>
> I can't create PDFs from them....or does a later version of WP have that
> option?

If you have the full version of Acrobat installed, you can "print" using the Distiller printer driver to create a PDF.

If you don't have/can't afford/can't get fast enough Acrobat, you can create a PostScript file (either Save As, or print-to-file using a PostScript printer driver) then use GhostScript to convert the *.ps file to a PDF.

Greg Holmes
gregholmes at aol.com



From DBailey at digitalinsurance.com  Thu Aug 30 12:06:29 2001
From: DBailey at digitalinsurance.com (Bailey, Dan)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:06:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/CDONTS Question
Message-ID: <91ADAA64F884D4118B3F0008C79F8FF8692618@DIGCRE00>

I'm working on a function to send email with CDONTS...and I'm wondering if
anyone knows if there's a maximum limit to the NewMail.Body attribute.

Furthermore, if someone could point me toward a tutorial detailing how to
upload files with a form, using ASP, that would be great.  (Especially if it
details attaching that file to an email.)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Dan "The Divebomber" Bailey
Marketing Producer
Digital Insurance
dbailey at digitalinsurance.com
(610)-278-5471
Love makes the world go 'round, but, then again, so does a hard blow to the
head.



From fgorton at figleaf.com  Thu Aug 30 12:15:05 2001
From: fgorton at figleaf.com (Frank Gorton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:15:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/CDONTS Question
Message-ID: <24C2F50005C0D4119D750008C7D3820D010636A7@figdcaexc1.figleaf.com>

The site www.4guysfromrolla.com has a number of GREAT articles when it comes
to ASP development, I would try
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/012401-1.shtml I think that is along
the lines of what you are looking for with your email.

Good Luck
Frank


--
Frank Gorton
Senior Project Manager

............................................................................
......................
Fig Leaf Software    			http://www.figleaf.com
1400 16th Street NW, 			office:  202.797.6518
Suite 500                   			
Washington, DC 20036                           fax:     202.797.5444  
............................................................................
......................



-----Original Message-----
From: Bailey, Dan [mailto:DBailey at digitalinsurance.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:52 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] ASP/CDONTS Question


I'm working on a function to send email with CDONTS...and I'm wondering if
anyone knows if there's a maximum limit to the NewMail.Body attribute.

Furthermore, if someone could point me toward a tutorial detailing how to
upload files with a form, using ASP, that would be great.  (Especially if it
details attaching that file to an email.)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Dan "The Divebomber" Bailey
Marketing Producer
Digital Insurance
dbailey at digitalinsurance.com
(610)-278-5471
Love makes the world go 'round, but, then again, so does a hard blow to the
head.

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Thu Aug 30 12:15:18 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (mail at redhotsweeps.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:15:18 2001
Subject: [fwd] RE: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
Message-ID: <001294010171e81BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


No offense, but it has been my experience from the previous 2 versions of
CF server that CFScheduler is crappy as heck.  It'll run on schedule fine,
then it stops running, then it will start again.  All with no
intervention.  This is a known bug with CF and I would choose to use
something more reliable.

No offense. Just my $.02

Chris

"Chris Evans" <chris at fuseware.com> wrote ..
> Why not use the CFScheduler if they are CF pages?
>
>
> Chris Evans
> chris at fuseware.com
> http://www.fuseware.com
>
>
>




From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Aug 30 12:25:12 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:25:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM problem
Message-ID: <000701c13178$0efa8460$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

I haven't changed anything that I know of, and I'm getting this error:

Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01B6)
Object doesn't support this property or method: 'e_List'
/po/po_rev.asp, line 129

However, according to the COM services console, e_List is a method of the
object I'm using (but I knew that, 'cause I built it and it was working last
time I checked.)

What kinds of events would cause this to stop working?

Thanks.

spinhead






From seyon at delime.com  Thu Aug 30 12:27:12 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:27:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108301049560.31950-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010830122510.01c40208@mail.delime.com>

I think the Wired Style site is an interesting resource.
http://hotwired.lycos.com/hardwired/wiredstyle/

(if you can stand the flaming red background) :-)

I think Jakob Nielsen's thoughts on writing for the web are particularly 
useful too.

regards.
-marc

At 8/30/2001 10:50 AM, you wrote:

>"Where can I learn more about how to write for the web?"




From bev at enso-company.com  Thu Aug 30 12:28:08 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:28:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
References: <p05001900b7b338f7ed31@[24.43.66.191]> <00d701c13170$5ba717e0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG> <12832812471.20010830173308@kfx-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: <006b01c13179$4320c730$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>

>
> "When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters.
> One represents danger, and the other represents opportunity."
> -- John F. Kennedy
>

Randori - Embrace the Chaos!

The philosophy of no philosophy

BC





From bev at enso-company.com  Thu Aug 30 12:29:29 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:29:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10A@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <007301c13179$739a4b20$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>

Wow!  Amazing,  something I would never had imagined.

Thanks.
BC

----- Original Message -----
From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] MSDE management contd


> | Not sure why, or if it really matters, but I always thought
> | you had to run
> | that MSDE stuff on Win2k server?
> |
>
> Hi Bev,
>
> That is only if you want server-like reliability. You can, should you be
so,
> ah, interesting, run it on Windows 95. Though you loose out on the ability
> to use SMP, then.
>
> <rory disposition="kindly" alt="8)"/>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From chris at fuseware.com  Thu Aug 30 12:30:03 2001
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:30:03 2001
Subject: [fwd] RE: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
In-Reply-To: <001294010171e81BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <000701c13178$cce34ed0$7119800a@VSCLTCOL0054>

Hmm.  I've always heard bad things about the CF scheduler, but I've never
had any problems.  I have around 30 different scheduled tasks that run on a
3 different boxes, running from 1 minute intervals up to once a week.  I've
never had any issues.

Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com







From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Thu Aug 30 12:37:03 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:37:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F60@flash>

Could anyone point me to some javascript code that will enable me to
show/hide rows in a table (all client-side).  I seem to have no luck this
morning...

Thanks,

	Ryan



From nwatkins at fansonly.com  Thu Aug 30 12:43:51 2001
From: nwatkins at fansonly.com (nealwatkins)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:43:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] SWF files
References: <8b.bb21262.28bfca60@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004001c13175$b0aac200$fbdab9d1@uninc.com>

I have a client who has a flash project from someone else
with a sound file externally linked.
How can I look at the swf (obviously do not have the .fla file)
to see the actions window.
or has Macromedia succeeded in creating a format not to be tampered with
thanx
Neal 









From bonpaul at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 12:45:57 2001
From: bonpaul at bigfoot.com (Bonnie Fitzgerald)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:45:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question...
References: <002f01c130e9$be1a6a80$b7a5fea9@bhszd01> <006e01c13168$3a1a81a0$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1317b$5ff1b8e0$1420e740@bhszd01>

Thanks James, appreciate the javascript!

Cheers,
Bonnie

> <script type="text/javascript">
> 
>   if (document.all)
>   {
>     if (!screen.fontSmoothingEnabled)
>     {
>       // display a message, or a link to a message, describing
>       // the benefits of font-smoothing, and how to enable it, etc.
>     }
>   }
> 
> </script>
> 
> James Aylard





From wade at runstrong.com  Thu Aug 30 12:46:50 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:46:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java-based Download Manager?
In-Reply-To: <20010830120428.B2576@brasscannon1>
Message-ID: <B7B3C8F0.C002%wade@runstrong.com>

Check out Jfile http://www.safileup.com/softartisans/sajfile.html
I haven't used it, but SoftArtisans' othter software is quite good.

Wade

on 8/30/01 9:04 AM, Kevin Martin at kevin at brasscannon.net wrote:

> Got a request from one of the guys here at the ISP for a
> "download manager" tool written in Java -- one of those
> thingies that downloads to a viewer's machine and then
> helps them download a larger file, restart a broken download,
> etc. etc.  But it's gotta be in Java.  Anybody seen one?




From dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org  Thu Aug 30 12:54:59 2001
From: dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (Dulcie Meatheringham)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:54:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108301049560.31950-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBJHDHOLHCLPJKONBNEEIHCOAA.dulcie@heritagecommunityfdn.org>

Susan wrote:

> In addition to these items, are there any books or other sites that
> you would recommend? This person has *decent* writing skills by my
> uninformed judgement, but he is not a trained  writer, if that helps
> with pointing out references.

Hi Susan,

I've got some bookmarked sites regarding writing for the web:

Effective Web Writing By Crawford Kilian
http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/2001/02/kilian/

A List Apart: Writing for the Web by Jeffrey Zeldman
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/writing/index.html

Part II of that article by Crawford Kilian
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/writing2/

I'm eager to see if anyone else has some resources in this area. These
particular links deal with both the design side of presenting text as well
as the actual content.

Hope it helps!

Dulcie.
--
Dulcie Meatheringham, Web Projects Coordinator
(780) 424-6512, x227
http://www.heritagecommunityfdn.org
Heritage Community Foundation
http://www.albertaheritage.net
Gateway to Alberta's Heritage
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/alberta
Alberta: How the West was Young
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/pasttopresent
Alberta: Home, Home on the Plains
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/abnature
Alberta, Naturally




From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Thu Aug 30 12:55:07 2001
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Thu Aug 30 12:55:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
Message-ID: <1790A13722760-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>

how does AT differ from the "Scheduled Tasks" service on win2k.  Ive always used
this for regularly scheduled jobs, several a night, and it seems to be easy to
setup and run.  Howwver I see it wont run on a remote machine.  Is this the
difference?

-----Original Message-----
From: CDitty [mailto:mail at redhotsweeps.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:52 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?


Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on a 
nt system?  I know that you use the "at" command to call the browser with 
the page, but how do you get the page to close after it is done? Or, can 
you load ie in the background?  I searched MS knowledge base, but was 
unable to find anything useful.

Thanks

Chris


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From xslf at xslf.com  Thu Aug 30 13:05:28 2001
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:05:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJHDHOLHCLPJKONBNEEIHCOAA.dulcie@heritagecommunityfdn.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBLOPICLGEMAHONBKKAENDCBAA.xslf@xslf.com>

I made some time ago a collection of links on this subject:
http://www.backflip.com/members/xslf/5333143/page=1/sort=0/linkspp=50

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of Dulcie Meatheringham
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:59 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Cc: susanhw at webcastle.com
Subject: RE: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)

I'm eager to see if anyone else has some resources in this area. These
particular links deal with both the design side of presenting text as well
as the actual content.




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 13:12:17 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:12:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM prob
	lem
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10C@arnold.bedrock.com>

| What kinds of events would cause this to stop working?

Using Windows? 8)

You might need to unregister and reregister the component. Its semantically
same as rebooting for components. Try typing into a console:

regsvr32 /u dllfilename.dll
<reboot computer>
regsvr32 dllfilename.dll

I am not too sure about needing to reboot between them, I think I had to do
it once, and it wouldn't hurt, would it? (Try telling me that when I have to
do it -- "Oooowwww! Another reboot?!)

<rory disposition="HTH" alt="8)"/>



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Thu Aug 30 13:16:33 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:16:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F60@flash>
Message-ID: <00b701c1317f$3b79cc10$2860398a@newcos.com>

Ryan,

> Could anyone point me to some javascript code that will enable me to
> show/hide rows in a table (all client-side).  I seem to have no luck this
> morning...

    I don't have an article to which to point you, but basically you should
use the CSS display property, toggling its value on a row in order to
display or hide it. Apply "display: none" to a tr in order to hide it, and
"display: block" in order to show it. Actually, I'm a fan of using different
classes: one class for the tr when its showing, and one for when its not,
and changing the value of the tr's className property.
    This will work in IE 5+; not sure about IE 4. Should work in Netscape
6.x, but will not work in Netscape 4.x (which doesn't support dynamic use of
the display property).

James Aylard




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Thu Aug 30 13:17:00 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:17:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108301049560.31950-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <018501c1317f$4e490360$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

================================
I have a client that is going to embark on a mission to bring more
    interesting information to their clients by interviewing and reviewing
    materials specific to their industry.
======================================
Good for Them!!
Too many Industry sites drone on about the mission statement and bios of the
industry board of directors.

Re: Jakob
Jakob's note was written in 1997.
On the web in 1997 we were beginning in the infancy of development and
presentation. There were not many good writers then, there are not many good
writers now. I count myself in the latter category.

There are no rules for writing on the web outside of laws on slander, libel,
plagerism and copyright infringment.
Spelling, punctuation, and proper sentence structure are helpful.

Be as long winded as you want to.
Be brief.
Be pedantic.
In my case I will be pedantic:)

My rules.

1. Be truthful

(however painful that may be-there is no industry without warts)

2. link to source materials

(nothing else can enhance ones reputation as being a credible source of
news/opinion more than providing links to the source materials you based
your articles on. This has the added benefit of providing a floor for
continuing dialog on issues as everybody hopefully has followed the links,
understands how your article got it's life and has the same information you
have for continuing a dialog. Which can promote the client, the industry and
maybe even you for being so perceptive.

Failure in this area will relegate your clients offerings to the edges of
the web next door to the 'elvis is alive and living in my garage' sites)

3. Limit your explorations/interviews to three or less points.


(You want to engage your visitors, not club them over the head.

not doing this will keep you writing until the heat death of the universe as
you squeeze in just one more point or link which will require one more point
or link...

Trust me on this one, for every published article I have, my harddrive
contains 15 or so on the same points, that are v a s t l y larger ;)

Enough about me.

Styles that work:

The Associated Press who has been writing news for years published a guide
book for writing news.
http://www.ap.org/pages/order.html#reference
(send money or visit your local library)

This style is known as 'top down'
The first paragraph presents a synopsis and conclusion of the article, the
subsequent paragraphs provide supporting in depth information to support the
first paragraph.


Marketing calls this  the "value proposition". The value proposition is
designed to entice you follow the argument as to why the proposition is
valuable and to entice you to buy into the product/service being proposed.
(which may account in no small part for using sex or the promise of it to
sell cars and snowblowers)

Despite it's uses and abuses it is a very good method for presenting
information.

Styles that are developing:

On the web for 'interviews' a couple of different styles bear examination.

As you mentioned the traditional interview style leaves a lot to be desired.
The questions are usually formulated to elicit responses to make the
interviewer look good or to promote the company line. Which is not bad, but
needs to be examined in terms of impartality. The link below is an
interesting examination of impartiality.

The Failure of Tech Journalism
http://www.netslaves.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=005&action=display&num=9
98801687

The Slashdot Carnival Method
The slashdot 'ask your questions and get answers' is a much more interactive
method as the members of the community  are the interviewers.
http://slashdot.org/index.pl?section=interviews

the Zeldman Web Standards interview is a case in point demonstrating the
good and bad points of this technique. Some interesting questions were asked
and a flame session over the color orange also developed.

Bulletin Board Forums
These offers interactivity, topicality, and a measure of control depending
on administration.

Fathom5
http://www.fathom5.org/discussion/wwwthreads.php?Cat=

This is an example of industry segment specific bulletin board.
http://www.ciclink.com/dbinfo/dblist.htm

Last but not least is our very own Evolt.

(disclosure: yes i have sneaked a few articles in here)
<plug type="shameless">
Built by and for pixel mechanics, but not limited to what is inside the HTML
document.
Containing as far as I know every note, rant, and email since it was born.
Indexed, Categorized, Searchable, Archived and having the finest group of
folks that have email addresses.
</plug>

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com





















From jcrawford at avencom.com  Thu Aug 30 13:18:38 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:18:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
Message-ID: <3B8E81F2.58D48B22@avencom.com>

Hi all -- 

I'm looking for web based software to manage an ftp space -- something
to allow adding and removing users -- password administration, etc -
specifically for a unix (rh linux) hosted box. the box can do perl cgi
and php4 as far as I can tell. The preference is for hosting internal,
but will consider outsourced service which does something similar.

Thanks!
	Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 13:26:03 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:26:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10D@arnold.bedrock.com>

| Could anyone point me to some javascript code that will enable me to
| show/hide rows in a table (all client-side).  I seem to have 
| no luck this
| morning...
|

Hey Ryan,

This only works in IE 4+, and Moz and NN6, since it relies on CSS2 and DOM
Level 1.

function changeDisplayHead(isDisplayed)
{	if(isDisplayed)
		{document.getElementById("TRID").style.display = 'none';}
	else
		{document.getElementById("TRID").style.display = 'inline';}
};

...

<tr id="TRID">
...
</tr>

<rory disposition="stirred not shaken" alt="8&"/>



From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Thu Aug 30 13:29:15 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:29:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F61@flash>

Thanks for both the replies.  It's working great.  It is for an internal
project, and the requirements are IE 5+.  (Makes one's life soooo much
easier)

Thanks again,

	Ryan

-----Original Message-----
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com [mailto:Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:25 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.


| Could anyone point me to some javascript code that will enable me to
| show/hide rows in a table (all client-side).  I seem to have 
| no luck this
| morning...
|

Hey Ryan,

This only works in IE 4+, and Moz and NN6, since it relies on CSS2 and DOM
Level 1.

function changeDisplayHead(isDisplayed)
{	if(isDisplayed)
		{document.getElementById("TRID").style.display = 'none';}
	else
		{document.getElementById("TRID").style.display = 'inline';}
};

...

<tr id="TRID">
...
</tr>

<rory disposition="stirred not shaken" alt="8&"/>

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Thu Aug 30 13:38:27 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:38:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] dynamic JPEG image  ?? how
References: <LAW2-F104VQQTD1T7AB0000932f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E869D.98898D19@avencom.com>

Brian Willner wrote:
> How does one go about this:
> www.t-shirts.com and pick "Design Your Own" under "custom t-shirts".
> 
> The site creates dynamic jpeg images based on user input.  I've never seen
> this, and am very curious to know how to do that.

What *is* the programming environment?

PHP can have gd libraries and functions built in, and there are several
Cold Fusion Custom tags available (cfx_image for one). Some folks
already responded with ASP tools.

	- Joe
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Aug 30 13:42:40 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:42:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM
  problem
In-Reply-To: <000701c13178$0efa8460$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830113719.03120780@baratta.com>

At 10:20 AM 8/30/2001, you wrote:

>What kinds of events would cause this to stop working?

Maybe the COM Object crashed? Have you rebooted the server? Is the Object 
being successfully loaded by the script?
----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Aug 30 13:51:30 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:51:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM  problem
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830113719.03120780@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <002901c13184$1f76fba0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

Sorry for the lack of info - server rebooted already, COM object un-reg'd
and re-reg'd; other methods of the same object work fine.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Baratta" <Anthony at Baratta.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM
problem


> At 10:20 AM 8/30/2001, you wrote:
>
> >What kinds of events would cause this to stop working?
>
> Maybe the COM Object crashed? Have you rebooted the server? Is the Object
> being successfully loaded by the script?
> ----
> Anthony Baratta
> President
> Keyboard Jockeys
>
> "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 13:58:49 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 13:58:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM  pro
	blem
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD110@arnold.bedrock.com>

| Sorry for the lack of info - server rebooted already, COM 
| object un-reg'd
| and re-reg'd; other methods of the same object work fine.

Ooo-key,

Um, have you tried to rebuild it and/or install it anew? Maybe the file is
corrupted?

<rory disposition="still wondrin'" alt="8}"/>



From djc at starkmedia.com  Thu Aug 30 14:02:13 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:02:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
References: <3B8E81F2.58D48B22@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E8ABC.7070300@starkmedia.com>

Hey Joe -

Check out webmin: http://www.webmin.com/webmin/

its pretty much the defacto for web based administration on linux :)

.djc.

Joe Crawford wrote:
> Hi all -- 
> 
> I'm looking for web based software to manage an ftp space -- something
> to allow adding and removing users -- password administration, etc -
> specifically for a unix (rh linux) hosted box. the box can do perl cgi
> and php4 as far as I can tell. The preference is for hosting internal,
> but will consider outsourced service which does something similar.
> 
> Thanks!
> 	Joe <http://artlung.com/>
> 





From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Aug 30 14:09:01 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:09:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM  problem
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD110@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c13186$84c8dee0$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

done; no joy. considering a workaround, 'cause this isn't what i'm doing
today. thanks for the tips, though.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM
problem


> | Sorry for the lack of info - server rebooted already, COM
> | object un-reg'd
> | and re-reg'd; other methods of the same object work fine.
>
> Ooo-key,
>
> Um, have you tried to rebuild it and/or install it anew? Maybe the file is
> corrupted?
>
> <rory disposition="still wondrin'" alt="8}"/>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From sgd at ti3.com  Thu Aug 30 14:10:31 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:10:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/CDONTS Question
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82511CF9EE@apollo.ti3.com>

 
> Furthermore, if someone could point me toward a tutorial 
> detailing how to
> upload files with a form, using ASP, that would be great.  
> (Especially if it
> details attaching that file to an email.)
> 

Once you've got the file uploaded, you can check
http://evolt.org/article/EmailswithIISpart2/17/3875/index.html

for some insight (and one way) to attaching it to your outbound
emails....

sgd



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 14:12:07 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:12:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] object doesn't support this property - ASP/COM  pro
	blem
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD111@arnold.bedrock.com>

| done; no joy. considering a workaround, 

Try another server?

<rory disposition="inching towards desperate" alt="8{"/>



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 14:18:28 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:18:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/showing table rows.
In-Reply-To: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28038F60@flash>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELOEPKINAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ryan,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ryan Finley
>
> Could anyone point me to some javascript code that will
> enable me to show/hide rows in a table (all client-side).
> I seem to have no luck this morning...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i know you've already got a couple of answers to your question, but i
thought i'd throw out a working example:

http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/toggle_tablerows.cfm

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From bread_man at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 14:40:43 2001
From: bread_man at hotmail.com (bread_man)
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:40:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Shockwave Problem - Hosting Service?
Message-ID: <0010e0736191e81BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Hi All,

I've been working with html and flash and hosting services for a while, =
but this is the first time I've tried posting a shockwave piece and am =
having troubles.

I posted an html file and director file that were made by a friend onto =
a Hypermart server, and a Tripod server and when trying to view them, =
the shockwave piece hangs!  WARNING: Before going to these links, know =
that this site is for a great Boston punk band and there might be =
offensive content for some people. =3D]

http://www.scnfu.com/ (Hypermart)
http://bread_man.tripod.com/scnfu/ (Tripod)

When viewing the piece on my local machine or on a personal linux =
webserver, it works just fine!

http://web.planet.com/bread_man/scnfu/

Sooo, what do you think could be the problem?  The piece is rather large =
(1MB), but regardless, it loads just fine with the exception of on the =
first 2 hosting services that I mentioned.  Any ideas??

Thanks much for your time!

yours in pain,

adam a.k.a bread_man





From cory_preus at cnt.com  Thu Aug 30 15:18:42 2001
From: cory_preus at cnt.com (Cory Preus)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:18:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?
Message-ID: <322A12E180CCD4118C9E00508BFDF5E89704BE@esply04.cnt.com>

 >> Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
 >> work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From
'95-'97

Yahoo! circa 1994
http://web.bilkent.edu.tr/History/yahoo/



From fgorton at figleaf.com  Thu Aug 30 15:31:55 2001
From: fgorton at figleaf.com (Frank Gorton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:31:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a good book for DB Design
Message-ID: <24C2F50005C0D4119D750008C7D3820D010636AA@figdcaexc1.figleaf.com>

I am looking for a good book on database design, at a general level, not
tied to any one DB software package.  I am not looking for an intro to SQL,
I have that covered, just want to get better versed in effective DB design.

Any Ideas?
Frank


--
Frank Gorton
Senior Project Manager

............................................................................
......................
Fig Leaf Software    			http://www.figleaf.com
1400 16th Street NW, 			office:  202.797.6518
Suite 500                   			
Washington, DC 20036                           fax:     202.797.5444  
............................................................................
......................



-----Original Message-----
From: Cory Preus [mailto:cory_preus at cnt.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:15 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] Old Yahoo! or other screencaps?


 >> Does anyone archive these?  I wish I had the foresight to.  Yahoo! would
 >> work, but even WebCrawler or AltaVista (or other) would do.  From
'95-'97

Yahoo! circa 1994
http://web.bilkent.edu.tr/History/yahoo/

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From Matt at grndwtr.com  Thu Aug 30 15:37:02 2001
From: Matt at grndwtr.com (Matthias Ritzkowski)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:37:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a good book for DB Design
Message-ID: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B0128007AF01@mail1>

"Database Design for mere mortals" , by Hernandez
is an excellent book.
It has also been recommended by other people on this list I believe ...

 Regards
Matthias Ritzkowski


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Gorton [mailto:fgorton at figleaf.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 16:31
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a good book for DB Design


I am looking for a good book on database design, at a general level, not
tied to any one DB software package.  I am not looking for an intro to SQL,
I have that covered, just want to get better versed in effective DB design.

Any Ideas?
Frank




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Thu Aug 30 15:42:47 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:42:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/CDONTS Question
References: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82511CF9EE@apollo.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3B8EA39D.C115D3E6@avencom.com>

Scott Dexter wrote:
> > Furthermore, if someone could point me toward a tutorial
> > detailing how to
> > upload files with a form, using ASP, that would be great.
> > (Especially if it
> > details attaching that file to an email.)
> >
> 
> Once you've got the file uploaded, you can check
> http://evolt.org/article/EmailswithIISpart2/17/3875/index.html
> 
> for some insight (and one way) to attaching it to your outbound
> emails....

These are great articles sgd! Very slick. I'm passing them to my list -
a pal was asking about sending multipart mail and using CDONTS - and
these look real useful for learning how this stuff *works*!

Excellent.

	- Joe

<tip subject="textpad, regular expression numbering" author="joe
crawford [ http://artlung.com/ ]">

Textpad for Windows <http://www.textpad.com/> is a great piece of
software. Excellent for plain text file playing. I especially love the
\i expression for regular expressions.

Say you have a file:
--------------
The
quick
brown
fox
jumped
over
the
lazy
dog
--------------

And you want to make it a CSV with some primary keys - simply open it in
textpad, then do a replace for
	^
and replace with
	\i\t

And you get
--------------
1	The
2	quick
3	brown
4	fox
5	jumped
6	over
7	the
8	lazy
9	dog
--------------

And say you wanted to increment by some other value, or start it at a
different number - let's say you want to start at 526 and increment by
19?
search for
	^
and replace with
	\i(526,19)\t

And you get:
--------------
526	The
545	quick
564	brown
583	fox
602	jumped
621	over
640	the
659	lazy
678	dog
--------------

Or you can do descending numbers as well - say you want to work
backwards from 100 by 1
search for 
	^
replace with
	\i(100,-1)\t
--------------
100	The
99	quick
98	brown
97	fox
96	jumped
95	over
94	the
93	lazy
92	dog
--------------

In addition, the help file is actually useful!
</tip>

-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Aug 30 15:52:40 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:52:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a good book for DB Design
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD112@arnold.bedrock.com>

| "Database Design for mere mortals" , by Hernandez

+1



From rachell at coeville.com  Thu Aug 30 15:57:02 2001
From: rachell at coeville.com (Rachell Coe)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:57:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Client Sign-off On Site Completion
In-Reply-To: <002301c12fcb$60309df0$0b01a8c0@meg>
Message-ID: <002201c13197$29e0b6e0$bac9e03f@c1028654a>

Hi All!

How many of you have your clients sign off on a site when it is complete?
If you do, do you have them sign a formal finalizing contract?  Or just a
reiteration of the original estimate appropriately updated to reflect any
deviations?

Thank you!

Rachell Coe
Bluhand Design LLC
(541) 607-1886
http://www.bluhanddesign.com




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 15:57:10 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Thu Aug 30 15:57:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hiding/Showing table rows (as in how to do it)
Message-ID: <F76U8QVjp3b6uIU1Gj000004f8b@hotmail.com>

Hey James :

    I know exactly what you are talking about, because I use the same
technique to form (albeit a crude) collapsing menu system. Here are a few 
steps that you can use to get the basic setup going :

    1. Set your <TD> tag to something like this :
       <td id=menuItemOne style="display:"
       (this will set the row to be "open" ie. displayed by default))
       <td id=menuItemOne style="display:none"
       (this will set the row to be hidden by default)

    2. Then write this little snippet of JavaScript
       function doCollapse() { menuItemOne.style.display = 'none' }
       function doExpand() { menuItemOne.style.display = ' ' }

That's it! If you need more help, or a live example, send me an email

Burhan Khalid
burhankh at hotmail.com



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Thu Aug 30 16:37:29 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Thu Aug 30 16:37:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Shockwave Problem - Hosting Service?
Message-ID: <v02140b1fb7b461296090@[10.112.1.18]>

How do you do with posting simpler files to that server? (This
one-or-all-files test is a quick way to separate possible content
differences from possible uploading/server differences.)

And I'm assuming that the browser you're using can view other Shockwave
sites normally...? (This one-or-all-sites test can help distinguish other
sets of differences.)

jd




John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From cory_preus at cnt.com  Thu Aug 30 16:49:29 2001
From: cory_preus at cnt.com (Cory Preus)
Date: Thu Aug 30 16:49:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a good book for DB Design
Message-ID: <322A12E180CCD4118C9E00508BFDF5E89704BF@esply04.cnt.com>

I have Database Systems by Connoly and Begg. I used it in my undergrad and
find it a phenomenal resource. It is amazingly complete -- pretty textbooky
though. I'd buy it in a heartbeat again. Normalization methodology,
security, transaction management, query optimization, distributed databases
and OO databases. It gets pretty involved to say the least.

Geez...from the sound of it, I should be a Rudy in training.

<wrap>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201342871/qid=999207496/sr=2-1/ref=a
ps_sr_b_1_1/104-5836848-7849559
</wrap>

Cheers,
Cory



From martin at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 16:51:33 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 16:51:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] metadata
Message-ID: <02abb2345211e81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

rudy wrote on 30/8/01 3:55 pm

>more on metadata soon, as it pertains to the evolt database

Oh yes.

Metadata = taxonomy = shit you need for any kind of content
management worth a damn.

http://dublincore.org/

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 16:51:55 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 16:51:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
Message-ID: <0280c2445211e81PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Daniel J. Cody wrote on 30/8/01 4:50 pm

>http://www.useit.com/papers/webwriting/
>
>The items at Nielsens site seem to be a good starting point, but I am not a 
>content writer, so I am not a good judge. In addition to these items, are 
>there any books or other sites that you would recommend?

Crawford Kilian's "Writing for the Web"

Amazon link available if you want it

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Thu Aug 30 17:04:49 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:04:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] SWF files
Message-ID: <v02140b20b7b4677fddda@[10.112.1.18]>

At 9:37 AM 8/30/1, nealwatkins wrote:
> I have a client who has a flash project from someone else
> with a sound file externally linked. How can I look at
> the swf (obviously do not have the .fla file) to see the
> actions window.

Sorry, the SWF is a compact deliverable file format, and does not have all
the authoring constructs that you'd find in a FLA file. (It's sort of like
how a compressed JPG does not have all the authoring constructs you'd find
in a Photoshop PSD file.)

If you'd like to edit the SWF, then the client should contract with the
original author for the source files to do so.

jd




John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From martin at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 17:11:37 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:11:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
Message-ID: <0899b5152211e81PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

spinhead wrote on 30/8/01 5:25 pm

>The company I work for is inventing a way to give you wireless
>video/audio/whatever in your home. 

Big fat pipe plus 802.11b wireless LAN in the house?

Otherwise known as a Linksys wireless router...

Tellin' ya - if I had the cash, I'd get the switched one,
and offer free local wireless access to the net... like
this lot:
http://www.consume.net

Of course, it's technically illegal in the UK. Nice
commentary from this week's http://www.ntk.net

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From bread_man at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 17:21:51 2001
From: bread_man at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:21:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shockwave Problem - Hosting Service?
References: <v02140b1fb7b461296090@[10.112.1.18]>
Message-ID: <OE343cf3ednHM3SOlbp00000238@hotmail.com>

> How do you do with posting simpler files to that server? (This
> one-or-all-files test is a quick way to separate possible content
> differences from possible uploading/server differences.)

> And I'm assuming that the browser you're using can view other Shockwave
> sites normally...? (This one-or-all-sites test can help distinguish other
> sets of differences.)

I can post all files (html,swf,css,images) just fine on all servers.  The
browsers I was using have the Shockwave plugin installed and can view it
just fine from my personal linux server and on my local machine, just not on
hypermart.net or tripod.com...

Thanks for any help,
adam




From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com  Thu Aug 30 17:44:45 2001
From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:44:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy (long)
In-Reply-To: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB714E87D9@coen.wishlist.com.au>
References: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB714E87D9@coen.wishlist.com.au>
Message-ID: <01083017301101.09290@localhost.localdomain>

 > We've got some awfully high class people on this list, ranging from
 > novices to utterly advanced pros. I sure would like to know about
 > your own, personal work philosophy. 

Well, guess I'll throw my hat into the ring.......

>Why do you do what you do?

I write web applications.  I do it because I love it.  Just being able to 
create something, share it with others, and see them enjoy using it brings 
makes me feel warm all over.  The medium of the web makes this even greater 
since it opens the opportunity for me to share with others all over the 
world.  Also, like someone has said before, being able to finish something 
and say "I did that!"  gives me a great sense of accomplishment.  I can't 
think of any other job I'd rather have.

>What's important about that?

You should do what you love and love what you do.  Otherwise, why do it?  I 
think its great that I get paid to do something that I would sit at home and 
do for free anyway.  Work isn't really work when you love what you're doing.

>What are the values that you reach for?

Larry Wall explained it best in the Camel Book(Programming Perl):

"...the three great virtues of a progammer: laziness, impatience, and hubris."

laziness:
I try to make everything I do user-friendly as possible.  I'm probably going 
to use them, so why would I want it to expend a lot of energy using it?

impatience:
Larry defines this differently than I do, but I take it as getting the job 
done.  Don't wait to try something, DO IT!  Be impatient with yourself when 
it comes to your work.  Don't ever be completely satisfied.  We can all be 
better at what we do.

hubris:
I take pride in my work.  I want everyone who uses one of my apps to say 
"WOW!" and have a unique experience.

Pretty much: Do your job efficiently, do it well, and take pride in what 
you've done.

>How do you measure whether you've fulfilled them or not?

I measure that by the feedback I get from endusers and my peers.  
Criticism(good or bad) is what drives us in this industry to perform.  

>Who are mentors or peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?

Mentors:
David Brunkow and Rien Heald.  My first two bosses.  They showed me that 
there should be a process in everything that I do.  Structure will always out 
perform chaos.  Always have a plan of attack before embarking on something 
new.  Don't dive in head first and hope for the best.

Peers:
Joe Jenett( http://www.coolstop.com ).  He was a coworker of mine before the 
great dotcom genocide of 2001.  Some folks on thelist may know him or have 
heard of him.  he's the only person I know that loves what he does more than 
I do.  He has such a great passion for the web and everything that is good 
about it.


I've rambled on long enough.  Hope you've enjoyed it.

jeremy
http://www.webhack.com



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Thu Aug 30 17:47:41 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:47:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Free Wireless Networks (was: Professional Philosopy)
References: <0899b5152211e81PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B8EC105.E0A844A0@avencom.com>

Martin wrote:
> Big fat pipe plus 802.11b wireless LAN in the house?
> 
> Otherwise known as a Linksys wireless router...
> 
> Tellin' ya - if I had the cash, I'd get the switched one,
> and offer free local wireless access to the net... like
> this lot:
> http://www.consume.net
> 
> Of course, it's technically illegal in the UK. Nice
> commentary from this week's http://www.ntk.net


Free wireless networks using 802.11b are great. I've had airport for
about a year and it rocks hard. Lots of folks are working on providing
free net access to anyone with an 802.11b card - just hook up your
dsl/cable and wire the neighborhood.

I have a dump o links (I think mostly on point) on this -- and am
working with a local San Diego group trying to see what we can do.

Check it out:
http://bookworm.sdsu.edu/sd_clubs.html 
http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/2001q3/000294.html 
http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=89393 
http://nocat.net/ 
http://nocat.net/ezwrp.html 
http://sandiego.citysearch.com/profile?id=111251 
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/09/12/1242213 
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/15/0150255&mode=thread 
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/23/1837218&mode=thread 
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=Antennas%2FTransmission+Lines 
http://www.bawug.org/ 
http://www.freenetworks.org/ 
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/24/010824hnfreewireless.xml 
http://www.kernel-panic.org/ 
http://www.live.com/wireless/unix-base-station.html 
http://www.lns.com/papers/FCCPart15_and_the_ISM_2.4G_Band.index 
http://www.milehighwireless.net/wiki-moinmoin/moin.cgi 
http://www.nycwireless.net/ 
http://www.nycwireless.net/articles/enclosure/index.html 
http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2000/12/01/shirky_freeloading.html 
http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/08/02/openservices.html 
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448 
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010712.html 
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010823.html 
http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/AcceptableUse 
http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/CategoryLegal 
http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/CheapAssSetup 
http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/PrivacyPolicy 
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/08/23/pirate/index.html 
http://www.sdbug.org/ 
http://www.sdlug.org/ 
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0129/tech-fleishman.shtml 
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/SecurityIssues.html 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/21177.html 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/18285.html 
http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,46187,00.html 

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>



From martin at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 17:48:08 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:48:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Client Sign-off On Site Completion
Message-ID: <014410617221e81PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Rachell Coe wrote on 30/8/01 10:03 pm

>How many of you have your clients sign off on a site when it is complete?

Absolutely - following UAT, which is the process by which the client
checks that what you delivered is what they wanted.

No signoff, no acceptance that you fulfilled the contract, no guarantee
of getting paid.

More UAT info:
http://evolt.org/testing/#uat

>If you do, do you have them sign a formal finalizing contract?  

A formal signoff of UAT.

>Or just a
>reiteration of the original estimate appropriately updated to reflect any
>deviations?

They'd get ongoing estimates of spend throughout the project, based
on time & materials, or whatever the basis of contract was.

Deviations shouldn't be news to the client at this point - they should
have already signed up to any cost or date overruns. The key thing is
to make sure that what you delivered is what they asked for.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 17:53:41 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 30 17:53:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
Message-ID: <01ee31049221e81PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Martin wrote on 30/8/01 10:52 pm

>Tellin' ya - if I had the cash, I'd get the switched one,
>and offer free local wireless access to the net... like
>this lot:
>http://www.consume.net

Of course, it helps when you've got cable modem,
only costing UKP25 a month, with spare bandwidth-
a-go-go.

cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 30 18:24:16 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:24:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
Message-ID: <01c131aa$3a516a20$5449149a@rudy>

my apologies if you get this twice

posted in error to thesite

those folks are good (after all, they are all evolticians)
but i really did mean to ask this question here instead...

<>><><><><>

can't remember where i heard that there was a solution for this...

apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their contents left,
everything is centered

i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different thread) so i cannot
test the workarounds myself

anybody know the right way to restore things?

i suppose the brute force way is to change <td> to <td align="left">?

does TD { text-align: left } fix it?

what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode or whatever
microsoft calls it?


rudy





From janice at discoverysystems.com  Thu Aug 30 18:31:38 2001
From: janice at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:31:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
Message-ID: <B7B4440D.C150%janice@discoverysystems.com>

Sorry for the repost, but can anyone help??? Have to deliver Tuesday and
time and patience (with getting is *right* on all browsers and operating
systems) getting a bit short.
Thanks in advance...

-------------------

Greetings evolters...

We have designed a site with ColdFusion and all is going quite well...
except... viewing the pages in Netscape (argh).

Believe it may have something to do with stylesheets but, as much as I've
played around with them, can't seem to make them behave.

Here's the site

http://glenwood.rasin.com/

Here's the issues...

None of the headings or side left navigation items are showing up in bold on
Windows -NN Macintosh is doing fine with this one.

Making the page quite narrow makes the bottom middle left column 'bleed'
into the right (not quite sure how it can even do that since these are table
cells) on both Mac and Windows instead of flowing down the table cell.

Any insights or suggestions?

With many thanks!

Janice





From annie at twitch.ca  Thu Aug 30 18:32:33 2001
From: annie at twitch.ca (Annie)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:32:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Radio selection showing results in text box
In-Reply-To: <01083017301101.09290@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONIEOKCDAA.annie@twitch.ca>

I was given a form created by a client. The purpose of the form is to have
the user select one of three or four checkboxes, each assigned a score.
Right now, the user has to check the scoring chart and type the score into
the text box beside the checkbox. Once done, the user clicks the Tally
button, which then tallies the score in another text box, and in one more
text box below this assigns a percentage to the score based on the total
possible. Don't know if you needed all that info, but here's my question:
When the user clicks on the radio button, I'd like the appropriate score for
that radio button to show up in the corresponding text box automatically.
Anyone know how? :P

TIA

Annie




From mccreath at ak.net  Thu Aug 30 18:35:28 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (David Mccreath)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:35:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
Message-ID: <10b90b110111.11011110b90b@augustine.gci.net>

Rewd --

I haven't actually tested this, because I'm not upgrading just yet, but 
I did see it happen on one of my pages using somebody else's machine.

On my site, I assumed that the nested table was actually inheriting a 
declared align="center" attribute in a parent cell. In my case, I was 
centering a log in box on a big page.

It doesn't change the fact that you'll apparently have to specifically 
set your alignment, but I'm curious, since the problem hasn't been 
reported by more people ...

Can anyone test that? Centered horizontal alignment default or 
inherited in IE6?

David

----- Original Message -----
From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 3:19 pm
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...

> my apologies if you get this twice
> 
> posted in error to thesite
> 
> those folks are good (after all, they are all evolticians)
> but i really did mean to ask this question here instead...
> 
> <>><><><><>
> 
> can't remember where i heard that there was a solution for this...
> 
> apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their contents left,
> everything is centered
> 
> i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different thread) so i 
> cannottest the workarounds myself
> 
> anybody know the right way to restore things?
> 
> i suppose the brute force way is to change <td> to <td align="left">?
> 
> does TD { text-align: left } fix it?
> 
> what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode or whatever
> microsoft calls it?
> 
> 
> rudy
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 30 18:41:15 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:41:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
In-Reply-To: <01c131aa$3a516a20$5449149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEAIIOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

rudy,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: rudy
>
> apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their
> contents left, everything is centered
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

actually, they default to left, but lemme explain.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different
> thread) so i cannot test the workarounds myself
>
> anybody know the right way to restore things?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it depends on your particular situation.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> i suppose the brute force way is to change <td> to
> <td align="left">?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yes, that's the brute force method.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> does TD { text-align: left } fix it?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

as far as i can tell, stylesheet declarations override align attribute
values.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode
> or whatever microsoft calls it?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i haven't messed around with it.

here's a link to a message posted on this very list almost two months ago
that describes the "problem" and why it occurs.

http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010702/161008.html

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From mccreath at ak.net  Thu Aug 30 18:54:11 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (David Mccreath)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:54:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
Message-ID: <112f5d10fa12.10fa12112f5d@augustine.gci.net>

From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
> here's a link to a message posted on this very list almost two 
> months ago
> that describes the "problem" and why it occurs.
> 
> http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010702/161008.html


AHA! Thanks, .jeff (and Craig)

David




From ray at opengrid.com  Thu Aug 30 18:55:58 2001
From: ray at opengrid.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:55:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Radio selection showing results in text box
Message-ID: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FFB9@directmail.opengrid.com>

> When the user clicks on the radio button, I'd like the appropriate
> score for that radio button to show up in the corresponding text
> box automatically.  Anyone know how? :P

We just finished a page that does something very similar.  It uses
checkboxes instead of radio buttons, and changes the value in a single field
instead of one field per checkbox, but the JavaScript should be similar
enough to make it easy for you to pick apart and repurpose.

http://web2001.mobileplanit.com/

Click on the Palm Logo and submit the profile form to get to the modules
page, which is where the JavaScript can be found.  Just search for
'calculateFileSize()' to find the right script.  Since the majority of the
page is being generated through XSL, you'll have to put the carriage returns
back into place to make it legible.

Basically, you're just setting the value of a form element (the text field)
with whatever value you have assigned to it.  The trick for your version is
going to be making the target text field and the value into arguments you
can pass into the function.


--ray



From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Thu Aug 30 18:57:54 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Thu Aug 30 18:57:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Radio selection showing results in text box
In-Reply-To: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONIEOKCDAA.annie@twitch.ca>
References: <01083017301101.09290@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830164722.0215e378@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>

hi annie,

i think this is what you want. 
http://vicksburgcollective.com/forfun/formtest.html

it's not the most elegant js -- but it should work. tested on pc/ns 4.7 and 
pc/ie 5.

here's the short of it, but click the link for the full story:
onclick="document.foobar.radiovalue.value = '40';"

cheers
nate


>When the user clicks on the radio button, I'd like the appropriate score for
>that radio button to show up in the corresponding text box automatically.
>Anyone know how? :P
>
>TIA
>
>Annie




From redwolf at whitewolf.com.au  Thu Aug 30 19:57:50 2001
From: redwolf at whitewolf.com.au (Red Wolf @ Whitewolf)
Date: Thu Aug 30 19:57:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE6 Comment Padding Bug
References: <20010831010708.D10188@nikolai.prokoschenko.comp> <v0422081cb7b479a68ce0@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <3B8EDFBF.2090903@whitewolf.com.au>

I figured out what was causing the weird duplication / padding bug I've 
been getting with IE6.

I'm using nested DIVs and commenting them for ease of use. The comments 
used within the main DIV were causing the padding, as for the 
duplication, that's up to Microsoft to figure out.

Jodi Red Wolf

Code follows:

< style >
/* Centre everything */

body {
	text-align : center;
	margin-top : 0px;
	margin-right : 0px;
	margin-bottom : 10px;
	margin-left : 0px;
	background-color : #fff9f2;
	color : #000000;
	font-family : 'Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif;
	font-size : 11px;
}

div {
	font-family : 'Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif;
	font-size : 11px;
}

/* Header positioning */

#header {
	width : 300px;
	margin-right : auto;
	margin-left : auto;
	margin-top : 10px;
	padding : 0px;
	text-align : left;
	vertical-align : middle;
	border : 1px solid #ff6600;
}

#navSite {
	width : 150px;
	float : left;
	vertical-align : top;
	border : 1px solid #009900;
}

#title {
	width : 146px;
	padding : 0px;
	float : right;
	text-align : right;
	vertical-align : top;
	border : 1px solid #660066;
}

< /style >

<!-- Start Page Header Code with IE Comment Padding Bug -->
< div id="header" >

<!-- Start Site Navigation -->
< div id="navSite" >Left Aligned Lump< /div >
<!-- End Site Navigation -->

<!-- Start Page Title -->
< div id="title" >Right Aligned Lump< /div >
<!-- End Page Title -->

< /div >
<!-- End Page Header -->

<!-- Start Page Header Code with Extra Comments Removed -->
< div id="header" >
	< div id="navSite" >Left Aligned Lump< /div >
	< div id="title" >Right Aligned Lump< /div >
< /div >
<!-- End Page Header -->

-- 
Jodi Red Wolf                           redwolf at whitewolf.com.au

Whitewolf                                             ____/\
51-55 Mountain Street Ultimo NSW 2007           _____/_ \ ~ \\
Ph: +61 2 9211 9357                             \/ ..   /     \
Fx: +61 2 9211 9376                              \_____~\     \\
Mb: +61 4 1380 9653                                   \  \// \\\




From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Thu Aug 30 20:41:09 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Thu Aug 30 20:41:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] apply PRE formatting with css?
In-Reply-To: <3B8EDFBF.2090903@whitewolf.com.au>
References: <20010831010708.D10188@nikolai.prokoschenko.comp>
 <v0422081cb7b479a68ce0@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830182252.021591b0@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>

hey all,

i was wondering if there was a way to achieve this:
<div><pre>
	source code
</pre></div>
without the <pre> tags. in other words, can I apply "pre" formatting by 
using CSS? I'm tyring to find the best way to display source code on a 
page. is there a best practice out there to display source code on the page?

on a related note, does anybody have a script or homesite extension form 
translating all the [< ] to [ &lt; ] (acutally, all the carets, quotes, 
etc...)?

tia,
nate

<tip type="netscape DOM" author="nate koechley">	
to access a nester layer in netscape, use this syntax:
	NS4.* //		document.PARENT_LAYER_NAME.layers[which].visibility = 'visible';

for the others (IE4, IE5,6, NS 6)  the PARENT_LAYER_NAME isn't necessary 
because you can access the div by name/id directly, as shown in the 
following two lines:
	IE4 // 		document.all[which].style.visibility = 'visible';
	IE/NS 5/6 // 	document.getElementById(which).style.visibility = 
'visible';
</tip>








From robin at rhastings.net  Thu Aug 30 20:42:52 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings)
Date: Thu Aug 30 20:42:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
In-Reply-To: <10b90b110111.11011110b90b@augustine.gci.net>
References: <10b90b110111.11011110b90b@augustine.gci.net>
Message-ID: <01083020412500.01700@C1471471-A.jffsn1.mo.home.com>

Actually, I ran into this problem the other day - I went into my page and 
removed all of the "center" code I could find and it still centered my text. 
Once I went in and explicitly labeled my td's with align="left", it stopped 
happening. I actually never made the connection between the sudden centering 
of that page and my upgrade of IE! Now I'm going to have to go look at *all* 
of my pages to see if I need to add the left aligning to them!! Thanks for 
the tips!

Robin Hastings
webmistress
InterTec Designs
http://www.intertecdesigns.com -in the midst of a move now and not accessible 
:( 

On Thursday 30 August 2001 06:30 pm, you wrote:
> Rewd --
>
> I haven't actually tested this, because I'm not upgrading just yet, but
> I did see it happen on one of my pages using somebody else's machine.
>
> On my site, I assumed that the nested table was actually inheriting a
> declared align="center" attribute in a parent cell. In my case, I was
> centering a log in box on a big page.
>
> It doesn't change the fact that you'll apparently have to specifically
> set your alignment, but I'm curious, since the problem hasn't been
> reported by more people ...
>
> Can anyone test that? Centered horizontal alignment default or
> inherited in IE6?
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>
> Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 3:19 pm
> Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
>
> > my apologies if you get this twice
> >
> > posted in error to thesite
> >
> > those folks are good (after all, they are all evolticians)
> > but i really did mean to ask this question here instead...
> >
> > <>><><><><>
> >
> > can't remember where i heard that there was a solution for this...
> >
> > apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their contents left,
> > everything is centered
> >
> > i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different thread) so i
> > cannottest the workarounds myself
> >
> > anybody know the right way to restore things?
> >
> > i suppose the brute force way is to change <td> to <td align="left">?
> >
> > does TD { text-align: left } fix it?
> >
> > what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode or whatever
> > microsoft calls it?
> >
> >
> > rudy




From java_fella at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 21:22:47 2001
From: java_fella at yahoo.com (TRG)
Date: Thu Aug 30 21:22:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Check - PresentationKit
Message-ID: <20010831021812.28345.qmail@web3201.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok, here's the next site check in our little family.

Look at http://www.presentationkit.com/info.htm

A site for a MultiMedia/CD Developer Resource we're
developing.

And tell me if anything pops, sproings, and breaks!

As always, thanks!

-Tom
www.templatekit.com
www.florentinedesign.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From mpember at phreaker.net  Thu Aug 30 21:24:45 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 21:24:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
References: <1790A13722760-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>
Message-ID: <3B8EF451.6530C5F2@phreaker.net>

The "at" command creates a scheduled task on a machine.  There are
switches to control all the settings that are normally done using the
GUI.

If you want to use the at command on remote machines.  Have a look at
the SysInternals' PSTools package: 

http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/pstools.shtml

It includes a tool called PsExec.  This allows you to execute a command
on a remote PC and even allows for starting cmd.exe to open a fully
functional command prompt.

This uses the RPC service in NT/2000 and will require it to be running
on the other machine.

Hope this clears things up a little.

"Pearson, John" wrote:
> 
> how does AT differ from the "Scheduled Tasks" service on win2k.  Ive always used
> this for regularly scheduled jobs, several a night, and it seems to be easy to
> setup and run.  Howwver I see it wont run on a remote machine.  Is this the
> difference?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CDitty [mailto:mail at redhotsweeps.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:52 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Running cron on NT?
> 
> Can someone give me specifics on how to run a script at certain times on a
> nt system?  I know that you use the "at" command to call the browser with
> the page, but how do you get the page to close after it is done? Or, can
> you load ie in the background?  I searched MS knowledge base, but was
> unable to find anything useful.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From mpember at phreaker.net  Thu Aug 30 21:32:07 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Thu Aug 30 21:32:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] referencing js variables
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144F6D@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8EF60C.6DE9696B@phreaker.net>

Here's some code I wrote to extract the values from a url:

var tmpArgs=location.search.substring(1,
location.search.length).split(',');
window.args=[];
for (var i=0; i < tmpArgs.length; i++) {
	var tmpArr=tmpArgs[i].split('=');
	window.args[i]=window.args[unescape(tmpArr[0])]=unescape(tmpArr[1]);
	return;
};

It simple creates an array so that window.args[variable]=value

Just run this code when the page has loaded and all your arguments
should now be accessible in the window.args array.

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> I am currently trying to successfully create an online multiple choice quiz
> spanning several web pages using JavaScript to sore the user's answers and
> direct them appropriately at the end of the test. More specifically, I'm
> passing the user's answers from one page to the next using the get method
> within my form and then parsing the arguments from the URL. These arguments
> are then passed on to the next page as hidden form elements.
> 
> The problem I have is that I don't know how to reference and manipulate the
> answers (that I've hopefully stored and passed on correctly) on the final
> page of the test.
> 
> To illustrate this further, I've published my efforts so far on the web.
> Take a peek and you'll see what I'm trying to achieve.
> 
> http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm
> 
> Can anyone give me the crucial piece of coding I need to reference the
> user's answers on page 3?
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Albie Attias
> 
> IT Manager
> 
> Eurosimm specialise in Memory, Hard Drives, Options & Solutions for Major
> Branded Systems
> 
> Compaq / IBM / HP / Toshiba / Western Digital / Maxtor / Fujitsu / Hitachi /
> Seagate / Quantum
> 
> E-Mail: albie at eurosimm.com <mailto:albie at eurosimm.com>
> Web: http://www.eurosimm.com <http://www.eurosimm.com/>
> Tel : +44 (0) 1706 360000
> Fax : +44 (0) 1706 620000
> 
> AOL IM : AAEUROSIMM
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Aug 30 21:51:28 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Thu Aug 30 21:51:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
In-Reply-To: <0899b5152211e81PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001801c131c7$32d753f0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

for the record, our completed proof of concept is WAY beyond 802.11b (which
is 11 M/sec) According to our marketing fluff (somewhere on the website)
we're going to deliver 'multiple channels of digital video and CD quality
audio simultaneously.' [We buy the Linksys routers by the boatload for our
home networks; so cool to sit in on the front porch, connected to the LAN at
work. Telecommuting is a hoot]

And since I'm wandering a bit from the path:

<tip>
When writing Active Server Pages, include 'Option Explicit' which will force
you to dimension all variables before they can be used. It helps prevent
errors due to typos, accidentally referring to the same variable by two
similar names, and various other Tools of the Invisible Elves which can make
troubleshooting difficult.
</tip>

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Martin
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:53 PM
To: thelist
Subject: Re: [thelist] Professional Philosopy


spinhead wrote on 30/8/01 5:25 pm

>The company I work for is inventing a way to give you wireless
>video/audio/whatever in your home.

Big fat pipe plus 802.11b wireless LAN in the house?

Otherwise known as a Linksys wireless router...

Tellin' ya - if I had the cash, I'd get the switched one,
and offer free local wireless access to the net... like
this lot:
http://www.consume.net

Of course, it's technically illegal in the UK. Nice
commentary from this week's http://www.ntk.net

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland






From webmaster at beachin.net  Thu Aug 30 22:03:56 2001
From: webmaster at beachin.net (Emmet McGovern)
Date: Thu Aug 30 22:03:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Client Sign-off On Site Completion
Message-ID: <B5CC5F9C9094D411AAC900805FCB3DD005E011@courier.beachin.net>

Sign offs are your best protection.  They complete the contract, allow you
to get paid, and offer no recourse for a client who suddenly decides they
didn't get what they wanted after launch.

E-


-----Original Message-----
From: Rachell Coe [mailto:rachell at coeville.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:03 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Client Sign-off On Site Completion


Hi All!

How many of you have your clients sign off on a site when it is complete? If
you do, do you have them sign a formal finalizing contract?  Or just a
reiteration of the original estimate appropriately updated to reflect any
deviations?

Thank you!

Rachell Coe
Bluhand Design LLC
(541) 607-1886
http://www.bluhanddesign.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 30 23:07:59 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Aug 30 23:07:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] apply PRE formatting with css?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830182252.021591b0@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
References: <3B8EDFBF.2090903@whitewolf.com.au>
Message-ID: <3B8ED447.31638.F470E01@localhost>

> From: nate koechley <nate at vicksburgcollective.com>
> 
> i was wondering if there was a way to achieve this:
> <div><pre>
>  source code
> </pre></div>
> without the <pre> tags. in other words, can I apply "pre" formatting
> by using CSS? I'm tyring to find the best way to display source code
> on a page. is there a best practice out there to display source code
> on the page?

yes, use <pre>...

what about using <pre> doesn't appeal to you?  it's probably the 
best way to represent it... and it offers some semantic value as 
well...

you could use the inline equivalent of <pre> (which is block-level) -- 
<code>... i'm assuming you don't like <pre> because it doesn't 
wrap the text... well, you could use <p><code></code></p> and it 
would still have some semantic value...

then just style the <code> element in your CSS...

> on a related note, does anybody have a script or homesite extension
> form translating all the [< ] to [ &lt; ] (acutally, all the carets,
> quotes, etc...)?

search-n-replace should handle much of what you need...



From ckanderson at powersurfr.com  Fri Aug 31 00:15:00 2001
From: ckanderson at powersurfr.com (Christian Anderson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:15:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
References: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIIEPADAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <003f01c131db$62faffa0$03e812d3@chris>

I sent this before, but I think that it didnt go through...  someone tell me
what to do :)

-------------------

Im on Win98, and I need to do a few screen captures of some websites that I
have created.  I know it can be done easily with Pant Shop Pro, but I dont
have it, and I cant download it for I am on a turtle slow connection.

I do have photoshop though, but cant for the life of me find anything to do
with getting a screen capture!  Anyone have anything that is good at
grabbing screen shots?  Or can Photoshop do it?

Thanks!

Christian Anderson
URL: http://www.photokyo.com




From tss24 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 31 00:24:25 2001
From: tss24 at cornell.edu (ted serbinski)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:24:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
In-Reply-To: <003f01c131db$62faffa0$03e812d3@chris>
Message-ID: <MJEPLLIFCMGCNPLGKOHHIEEICBAA.tss24@cornell.edu>

>
> I do have photoshop though, but cant for the life of me find
> anything to do
> with getting a screen capture!  Anyone have anything that is good at
> grabbing screen shots?  Or can Photoshop do it?


You already have something good at grabbing your screen shots, win98.

Simply press "Print Screen" (one of those small buttons usually above your
arrow pad keys towards the top) and voila. Just simply paste into your
favorite paint program and you are set.

And if you only want the browser window and not the whole screen, press ALT
+ PrtScn and you'll get only the active window.

ted




From einstein314 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 31 00:25:27 2001
From: einstein314 at hotmail.com (David Altherr)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:25:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
References: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIIEPADAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org> <003f01c131db$62faffa0$03e812d3@chris>
Message-ID: <OE144XNhJWWMkTd0Gqy00001760@hotmail.com>

You should be able to copy the current screen image to the clipboard by
pressing Ctrl+PrintScreen.  Then just paste into the editor of your choice.

-David Altherr
www.davidaltherr.net



> I sent this before, but I think that it didnt go through...  someone tell
me
> what to do :)
>
> -------------------
>
> Im on Win98, and I need to do a few screen captures of some websites that
I
> have created.  I know it can be done easily with Pant Shop Pro, but I dont
> have it, and I cant download it for I am on a turtle slow connection.
>
> I do have photoshop though, but cant for the life of me find anything to
do
> with getting a screen capture!  Anyone have anything that is good at
> grabbing screen shots?  Or can Photoshop do it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Christian Anderson




From noah at tookish.net  Fri Aug 31 00:26:57 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:26:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
In-Reply-To: <003f01c131db$62faffa0$03e812d3@chris>
References: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIIEPADAAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010831011433.021192d0@tookish.net>

At 01:10 AM 31/08/2001, Christian Anderson wrote:
>Im on Win98, and I need to do a few screen captures of some websites that I
>have created.  I know it can be done easily with Pant Shop Pro, but I dont
>have it, and I cant download it for I am on a turtle slow connection.
>
>I do have photoshop though, but cant for the life of me find anything to do
>with getting a screen capture!  Anyone have anything that is good at
>grabbing screen shots?  Or can Photoshop do it?

Windows will do it - open a site in your browser, then hit "PrntScrn" 
(Print Screen). Open Photoshop, create a new image, and "Paste" (from my 
experience, Photoshop will know how big to make the new image so that the 
paste fits).

If the browser window isn't maximized, "Alt + PrntScrn" will just capture 
the active window.

Cheers,
Noah




From feed at chicken3.com  Fri Aug 31 00:27:41 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:27:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
Message-ID: <200108310527.f7V5ReE16854@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Christian.  Open the site you want to capture, and when you are ready, 
push the "print screen" key.  This will save a screen shot to the clip
board.

Then open PhotoShop, choose New, choose OK when prompted, then do an Edit >
Copy.

Wham!  Screen capture!

Hope this works for you...


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Christian Anderson" <ckanderson at powersurfr.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Screen Capture
>Date: Thu, Aug 30, 2001, 10:10 PM
>

> I sent this before, but I think that it didnt go through...  someone tell me
> what to do :)
>
> -------------------
>
> Im on Win98, and I need to do a few screen captures of some websites that I
> have created.  I know it can be done easily with Pant Shop Pro, but I dont
> have it, and I cant download it for I am on a turtle slow connection.
>
> I do have photoshop though, but cant for the life of me find anything to do
> with getting a screen capture!  Anyone have anything that is good at
> grabbing screen shots?  Or can Photoshop do it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Christian Anderson
> URL: http://www.photokyo.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From jaylard at encompass.net  Fri Aug 31 00:35:50 2001
From: jaylard at encompass.net (James Aylard)
Date: Fri Aug 31 00:35:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] apply PRE formatting with css?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830182252.021591b0@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c131de$322dd610$baa7fea9@xpsr400>

Nate,

> i was wondering if there was a way to achieve this:
> <div><pre>
> 	source code
> </pre></div>
> without the <pre> tags. in other words, can I apply "pre" formatting by
> using CSS? I'm tyring to find the best way to display source code on a

	You can use CSS in place of the <pre> element:

<style type="text/css">
  <!--
    div
    {
      white-space: pre ;
    }
  -->
</style>

	Keep in mind that this works in IE 6 and Netscape 6, but not previous
versions. And, as aardvark suggested earlier, the <code> element might be a
better choice because its purpose is to mark-up content intended to display
as code samples.

James Aylard




From feed at chicken3.com  Fri Aug 31 01:09:40 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Fri Aug 31 01:09:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
Message-ID: <200108310609.f7V69dE19473@leo.evolt.org>

Hey Jeremy...

I think this is what you should do:

Grab your favorite pen or pencil, and favorite drawing book or sketch pad
and go to somewhere that makes you feel creative (for me this would be in
the late hours of the night in my office with a couple of candles lit while
Siamese Dream is playing) and just draw out your site.

I mean, draw it 5 or 6 times, and put stuff down on paper you would never
put in there...like a cactus, or a dog with wings...just let your mind
wander.

Then, when you are as loose as a goose, start thinking about who and what
you are and how you can represent that visually.  Then, put that writing
utensil back to the paper and let her rip!

Right now, you really don't have anything to critique.  Except that the very
light gray and orange on the big bold white page are almost unreadable (at
least on a Mac's system palette).

So my advice, get your design done before you get to your computer.  Then,
make sure that this site is communicating what it's supposed to - something
about the personal you.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "bull3t" <initium at barrysworld.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
>Date: Thu, Aug 30, 2001, 1:00 AM
>

> Don't be *TOO* brutal, but check out http://www.chaos-crew.com/bull3t/test/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> While I don't have any content yet, I think this will be my personal
> information page for Web Design class.
>
> Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From elly at mac.com  Fri Aug 31 01:54:13 2001
From: elly at mac.com (Elly)
Date: Fri Aug 31 01:54:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
Message-ID: <p05100300b7b4e25e28b5@[192.168.1.2]>

>I went into my page and removed all of the "center" code I could 
>find and it still centered my text. Once I went in and explicitly 
>labeled my td's with align="left", it stopped happening. I actually 
>never made the connection between the sudden centering of that page 
>and my upgrade of IE!

I'm on a Mac, so I can't test IE 6. Can we clarify here which IE 6 is 
rendering?

What we first discussed, that nested tables are inheriting the 
alignment of the parent <td>,
or does IE 6 actually default to cells align=center, which is not the standard?
-- 
Elly

http://www.echozone.com/



From erick_papadakis at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 03:32:56 2001
From: erick_papadakis at yahoo.com (Erick Papadakis)
Date: Fri Aug 31 03:32:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: outlook 2002 (xp) doesnt recognize my connection!!
Message-ID: <20010831082823.35240.qmail@web10701.mail.yahoo.com>

sorry for the OT posting but i am having a headache
getting my outlook 2002 (office xp) to recognize my
online connection on DSL! when i upgraded this
morning, it recognized and upgraded my accounts from
my old outlook 2000 settings just fine - i mean it
picked up the POP and SMTP information correctly - but
despite that, it just keeps giving me this error when
i check my email: 

  Task 'Erick Papadakis' - Sending and Receiving
reported error (ox80004005): 'The operation failed'


can some help me please? thanks!!

erick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 03:38:39 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Fri Aug 31 03:38:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: outlook 2002 (xp) doesnt recognize my connection!!
In-Reply-To: <20010831082823.35240.qmail@web10701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJACNCFDNLLAFJNJBAELLCLAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Your provider's servers might be offline for some reason...

Thanks,
Ron White 
<snip>
  Task 'Erick Papadakis' - Sending and Receiving
reported error (ox80004005): 'The operation failed'
</snip>



From cantone at austin.rr.com  Fri Aug 31 03:53:25 2001
From: cantone at austin.rr.com (cantone (RR))
Date: Fri Aug 31 03:53:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] having problem with <style> element in IE6 vs NS4.7
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010824142515.00a03080@mail.abbeyink.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c131f9$41fcf880$3e7b4442@OCEAN>

For some reason I cannot understand, the text on the page renders white (as
intended) in IE6/Win2K and blue (!!! -- like #00FFFF, I think) in
NS4.7/Win2K.

What am I missing? Go easy, I'm still learning the cascade :)

Please take a look at:

http://www1.jump.net/~cantone/test.html

the linked stylesheet is http://www.jump.net/~cantone/css/style.css

There is one style element on test.html that should precede any styles in
style.css (it's not overriding any declarations, nor is it intended to)

<style><!--
.this { color: "#FFFFFF"; size: "xx-large"; }
-->
</style>

<span class="this">Why ...... blue?!)</span>



Thanks,

-- Carl

cantone at austin.rr.com




From solve at presens.nl.no  Fri Aug 31 04:00:04 2001
From: solve at presens.nl.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8lve?= Horrigmoe)
Date: Fri Aug 31 04:00:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] having problem with <style> element in IE6 vs NS4.7
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010824142515.00a03080@mail.abbeyink.com> <003b01c131f9$41fcf880$3e7b4442@OCEAN>
Message-ID: <3B8F50C8.ABCA51C2@presens.nl.no>

try dropping the quotes (") surrounding #FFFFFF in the color definition.

-S?lve


"cantone (RR)" wrote:
> 
> For some reason I cannot understand, the text on the page renders white (as
> intended) in IE6/Win2K and blue (!!! -- like #00FFFF, I think) in
> NS4.7/Win2K.
> 
> What am I missing? Go easy, I'm still learning the cascade :)
> 
> Please take a look at:
> 
> http://www1.jump.net/~cantone/test.html
> 
> the linked stylesheet is http://www.jump.net/~cantone/css/style.css
> 
> There is one style element on test.html that should precede any styles in
> style.css (it's not overriding any declarations, nor is it intended to)
> 
> <style><!--
> .this { color: "#FFFFFF"; size: "xx-large"; }
> -->
> </style>
> 
> <span class="this">Why ...... blue?!)</span>
> 
> Thanks,
>



From ed at edcourtenay.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 04:02:23 2001
From: ed at edcourtenay.co.uk (Ed Courtenay)
Date: Fri Aug 31 04:02:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10B@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <00ab01c131fb$004cf3c0$ad34a8c0@issntdev41>

It's actually much easier than that: simply make a new registration for
(local)\NetSDK

Ed Courtenay
http://www.edcourtenay.co.uk

"We've all heard that a million monkeys on a million
keyboards would eventually come up with the entire
works of Shakespeare - thanks to the Internet, we now
know this isn't true...."


----- Original Message -----
From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] MSDE management contd


> | Although I can
> | see the server running in Server Manager as localhost\NetSDK,
> | I'm unable to
> | connect to it through Enterprise manager.
>
> Do you mean the Windows Server Manager? So, then, NetSDK would be your
> NetBIOS name?
>
> | It just says that
> | the server
> | doesn't exist.  I'm running both on the same machine, so it
> | shouldn't be a
> | problem with remote management (I guess).  Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Can you make a new SQL Server Registration with the IP address, i.e.
> 127.0.0.1?
>
> <rory disposition="curious" alt="8}"/>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Aug 31 04:07:29 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Aug 31 04:07:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
Message-ID: <p05001909b7b502a83700@[24.43.66.191]>

Hey folks,

I'm wondering if you could take a look at

http://www.framarstudios.com/

It's my own site, and aside from being a little short on content 
(that I haven't added all my apps yet) I'm generally pleased with it 
at this phase.

Please feel free to critique it from any point of view. No holds barred.

Thanks!
-- 


A bucket full of water does not splash about,
             only a bucket half-full splashes.
                                           -- Malayan Proverb.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 04:13:55 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Fri Aug 31 04:13:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] MSDE management contd
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920034AD10B@arnold.bedrock.com> <00ab01c131fb$004cf3c0$ad34a8c0@issntdev41>
Message-ID: <004401c131fd$283a2270$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi Ed

I thought that as well.  Finally got Enterprise Manager to talk to the MSDE
server, but it then gave me an error message saying that I need to upgrade
it to SQL Server 2000.  And unfortunatly the two downloads I've done of that
(the evaluation version from the M$ site) have been corrupted :(

Norman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Courtenay" <ed at edcourtenay.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] MSDE management contd


> It's actually much easier than that: simply make a new registration for
> (local)\NetSDK
>
> Ed Courtenay
> http://www.edcourtenay.co.uk
>
> "We've all heard that a million monkeys on a million
> keyboards would eventually come up with the entire
> works of Shakespeare - thanks to the Internet, we now
> know this isn't true...."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:36 PM
> Subject: RE: [thelist] MSDE management contd
>
>
> > | Although I can
> > | see the server running in Server Manager as localhost\NetSDK,
> > | I'm unable to
> > | connect to it through Enterprise manager.
> >
> > Do you mean the Windows Server Manager? So, then, NetSDK would be your
> > NetBIOS name?
> >
> > | It just says that
> > | the server
> > | doesn't exist.  I'm running both on the same machine, so it
> > | shouldn't be a
> > | problem with remote management (I guess).  Does anyone have any ideas?
> >
> > Can you make a new SQL Server Registration with the IP address, i.e.
> > 127.0.0.1?
> >
> > <rory disposition="curious" alt="8}"/>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 05:06:16 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 05:06:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144F9C@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Thanks for all your help so far guys but my question remains unanswered.
Extracting the user's answers from the query string is not the problem. I'm
pretty sure the function I've written is correctly extracting, parsing and
storing the name and value pairs. My problem is pretty much what happens
next? I think it might be easier to focus on my specific example and go
through it step by step (see http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm).

Page1.htm has three multiple choice questions. The user's answers to these
questions are passed on to page2.htm via the query string. A function is
called to parse and store these answers in an array. These answers are then
hopefully passed on to the final page, page3.htm as hidden form elements.
The plot thickens somewhat since page2.htm also has its own questions that
need dealing with. The answers from page2.htm are passed onto page3.htm
using the query string again.

So, if all has gone to plan and my coding is correct, by the time page3.htm
has been loaded, I should in theory have access to the user's answers from
both page1.htm and page2.htm.

My problem is that I don't know how to get to these answers. All my attempts
at doing so have given me error messages such as  "blah is not an object" or
"blah is undefined".

What I need is someone to take a couple of minutes to look through my code
(it really is short and sweet) and pinpoint what is missing.

Muchos gracias


Albie Attias

Web guru wannabe



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 05:52:35 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Fri Aug 31 05:52:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F70FCBB@BOOTROS>

> >I went into my page and removed all of the "center" code I could 
> >find and it still centered my text. Once I went in and explicitly 
> >labeled my td's with align="left", it stopped happening. I actually 
> >never made the connection between the sudden centering of that page 
> >and my upgrade of IE!
> 
> I'm on a Mac, so I can't test IE 6. Can we clarify here which IE 6 is 
> rendering?
> 
> What we first discussed, that nested tables are inheriting the 
> alignment of the parent <td>,
> or does IE 6 actually default to cells align=center, which is not the
standard?
> 

Righty ho, I fired up my shiny new install of IE 6 final release (on Win2k),
and did two tests - one with just an <html> at the top of the page, and one
with the XHTML 1.0 strict DTD and an <html
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">.

After the <html> tag, I had:

<head>
  <title>Bloody browsers</title>
</head>
<body>
<table>
  <tr>
    <td>Hello world!</td>
  </tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>

Both tests had the text aligned left, so I guess that's the default.

Seeing as my boss hasn't turned up yet, I thought I'd carry on and check the
inheritance :-) I changed the <body> to this:

<table>
  <tr>
    <td align="center">
      <table>
        <tr>
          <td>Hello world!</td>
        </tr>
      </table>
    </td>
  </tr>
</table>

And both versions (plain <html> and XHTML stuff) still align the text to the
left.


Cheers 
Jon


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************




From peter at vardus.com  Fri Aug 31 05:57:19 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter)
Date: Fri Aug 31 05:57:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
In-Reply-To: <p05001909b7b502a83700@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010831114134.02f47810@mail.vardus.net>

>I'm wondering if you could take a look at
>
>http://www.framarstudios.com/

Looking good! Here you go:

- Big problem: I can't resize text.
- small problem: the page acts very strange when I try to select text
- homepage: if you're selling webdesign services you're not making that 
very clear. Or are you a consultant? There are mixed messages there (the 
techie tip suggest you sell yourself as a freelance techie, the intro 
suggest you're a strategic consultant).
- making a phone number obligatory in a contact form is very unpolite
- on the Portfolio page you say "your role will be highlighted in the 
descriptions", but it's not. I'm still not clear on what exactly you do, or 
what kind of company you are.

The main problem is focus: you're not making it clear what you do or sell, 
or what the website is for.
Peter




From michael at ibltd.com  Fri Aug 31 05:57:26 2001
From: michael at ibltd.com (Michael Trim)
Date: Fri Aug 31 05:57:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
In-Reply-To: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F70FCBB@BOOTROS>
Message-ID: <FPEAICBANNIPHJEOLCJEIEDECNAA.michael@ibltd.com>

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/989.htm

there is a thread about this on this forum. Hope it helps

Michael



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jon Haworth
Sent: 31 August 2001 09:05
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...


> >I went into my page and removed all of the "center" code I could
> >find and it still centered my text. Once I went in and explicitly
> >labeled my td's with align="left", it stopped happening. I actually
> >never made the connection between the sudden centering of that page
> >and my upgrade of IE!
>
> I'm on a Mac, so I can't test IE 6. Can we clarify here which IE 6 is
> rendering?
>
> What we first discussed, that nested tables are inheriting the
> alignment of the parent <td>,
> or does IE 6 actually default to cells align=center, which is not the
standard?
>

Righty ho, I fired up my shiny new install of IE 6 final release (on Win2k),
and did two tests - one with just an <html> at the top of the page, and one
with the XHTML 1.0 strict DTD and an <html
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">.

After the <html> tag, I had:

<head>
  <title>Bloody browsers</title>
</head>
<body>
<table>
  <tr>
    <td>Hello world!</td>
  </tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>

Both tests had the text aligned left, so I guess that's the default.

Seeing as my boss hasn't turned up yet, I thought I'd carry on and check the
inheritance :-) I changed the <body> to this:

<table>
  <tr>
    <td align="center">
      <table>
        <tr>
          <td>Hello world!</td>
        </tr>
      </table>
    </td>
  </tr>
</table>

And both versions (plain <html> and XHTML stuff) still align the text to the
left.


Cheers
Jon


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee,
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or
confidentiality'

**********************************************************************


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From JenniferE at mif.com  Fri Aug 31 07:00:38 2001
From: JenniferE at mif.com (JenniferE at mif.com)
Date: Fri Aug 31 07:00:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
Message-ID: <BA916A88CCC35D4A9856ABFC5E1B026F1A7583@mist.mifnet.local>

>I'm wondering if you could take a look at
>
>http://www.framarstudios.com/

When I looked at your portfolio I had a few problems.  I get an error trying to get into EuropeanSkinCare.com (403.4 Forbidden: SSL required).  And the entire NinaSpencer site must be in a font that I don't have (and I have a ton) because all the
non-graphic text is garbage on my screen.

I like the layout of the body of your pages, but I think the top is too empty.  If you don't want to add something more across the top, maybe centering the logo would help??

Thanks, Jennifer



From framar at interlog.com  Fri Aug 31 07:20:14 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Aug 31 07:20:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
In-Reply-To: <BA916A88CCC35D4A9856ABFC5E1B026F1A7583@mist.mifnet.local>
References: <BA916A88CCC35D4A9856ABFC5E1B026F1A7583@mist.mifnet.local>
Message-ID: <p0500190bb7b52e2b7113@[24.43.66.191]>

>  When I looked at your portfolio I had a few problems.

>  I get an error trying to get into EuropeanSkinCare.com
>  (403.4 Forbidden: SSL required).

Yes, we can thank the ISP from hell for that one. I've touched up the 
link, thanks.

>  And the entire NinaSpencer site must be in a font that I
>  don't have (and I have a ton) because all the
>  non-graphic text is garbage on my screen.

Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif and 'Caslon 540', Palatino, serif. I know 
just about no one will have the Caslon, but she does and insists on 
it. If it's not too much trouble, I wonder if you would be willing to 
send me a screen shot of that?

>  I like the layout of the body of your pages, but I think
>  the top is too empty. If you don't want to add something
>  more across the top, maybe centering the logo would help??

Yes, it's something I haven't quite decided how to handle just yet. I 
might bite the bullet and find some reasonable reason to use Flash.
-- 


A bucket full of water does not splash about,
             only a bucket half-full splashes.
                                           -- Malayan Proverb.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri Aug 31 07:39:36 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Aug 31 07:39:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Seeking web based user management for ftp
References: <3B8F77D5.A939EC90@netpaths.net> <3B8F7F3A.9CA3ED8A@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <3B8F8462.84FCF1BF@netpaths.net>

one possibility, although somewhat clumsy (IMHO), is webmin (i'm a mac
guy).   http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
I have also worked on other types of systems that I would be happy to
talk with you about.

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Aug 31 08:00:28 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Aug 31 08:00:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144F9C@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8F8957.DF90246D@webtuitive.com>

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:

> The answers from page2.htm are passed onto page3.htm
> using the query string again.

Nope, they're not - you're assigning the values args[0,1,2] to a
hidden field *as a literal*. Take a look at the query string when
you get to page 3.

So on page 2, instead of

<!-- answers from page 1 -->
 <input type="hidden" name="q1" value="args[0]">
 <input type="hidden" name="q2" value="args[1]">
 <input type="hidden" name="q3" value="args[2]">
 
start the page with 

<!-- answers from page 1 -->
 <input type="hidden" name="q1" value="">
 <input type="hidden" name="q2" value="">
 <input type="hidden" name="q3" value="">

and change your getArgs function to set the values of q[0,1,2] to the
arg value. 

Less important, I'd suggest making the function either void - return 
nothing, since you're not doing anything with the returned object - 
or return a boolean true or false for success/failure if you want to
confirm the arg decode was successful (requires extra code!).

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From jmclark at multiservice.com  Fri Aug 31 08:22:24 2001
From: jmclark at multiservice.com (Jeana Clark)
Date: Fri Aug 31 08:22:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] table cells suddenly centering...
In-Reply-To: <01c131aa$3a516a20$5449149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <001501c1321d$123220c0$b2341eac@multiservice.com>

Rudy -

Long story short.

If you don't declare the alignment for individual cells, it will take the
inherited cell of whatever table container its in. My guess is, you've got
an align="center" on a table or table cell that your other tables are inside
of.  A quick find and replace, or just adding align attributes to *all* of
your table cells quickly cleans up the problem.

I think its kinda a good idea.. going to the strict sense of HTML (xhtml).

YAY ITS FRIDAY.
-j

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Jeana Clark
Metropolis Gameport Systems
http://www.Metropolis.com
8650 College Blvd.
Overland Park, KS 66210


> <>><><><><>
>
> can't remember where i heard that there was a solution for this...
>
> apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their contents left,
> everything is centered
>
> i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different thread) so i cannot
> test the workarounds myself
>
> anybody know the right way to restore things?
>
> i suppose the brute force way is to change <td> to <td align="left">?
>
> does TD { text-align: left } fix it?
>
> what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode or whatever
> microsoft calls it?




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 08:45:58 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 08:45:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FD1@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Thanks Hassan


I made the changes you suggested but I'm now getting a javascript error on
page 2 saying "documents.forms.quiz.q1 is not an object". What am I doing
wrong?

Also, assuming everything else is ok, what line(s) of code do I use on page3
to access my stored answers?

http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm


Thanks again


Albie Attias



>Hassan wrote:
 
>start the page with 

><!-- answers from page 1 -->
> <input type="hidden" name="q1" value="">
> <input type="hidden" name="q2" value="">
> <input type="hidden" name="q3" value="">

>and change your getArgs function to set the values of q[0,1,2] to the
>arg value. 

>Less important, I'd suggest making the function either void - return 
>nothing, since you're not doing anything with the returned object - 
>or return a boolean true or false for success/failure if you want to
>confirm the arg decode was successful (requires extra code!).



From MMcGlynn at blueripple.com  Fri Aug 31 09:21:23 2001
From: MMcGlynn at blueripple.com (Mike McGlynn)
Date: Fri Aug 31 09:21:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
Message-ID: <E1B13E4FCB81D311BD0300508B55B55B012AFFDC@ng.blueripple.com>

Thank you E, you just solved a BIG issue for me....although I will
substitute To Mega Therion for Siamese Dream.

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Langlitz [mailto:feed at chicken3.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 2:06 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Design Critique


Hey Jeremy...

I think this is what you should do:

Grab your favorite pen or pencil, and favorite drawing book or sketch pad
and go to somewhere that makes you feel creative (for me this would be in
the late hours of the night in my office with a couple of candles lit while
Siamese Dream is playing) and just draw out your site.

I mean, draw it 5 or 6 times, and put stuff down on paper you would never
put in there...like a cactus, or a dog with wings...just let your mind
wander.

Then, when you are as loose as a goose, start thinking about who and what
you are and how you can represent that visually.  Then, put that writing
utensil back to the paper and let her rip!

Right now, you really don't have anything to critique.  Except that the very
light gray and orange on the big bold white page are almost unreadable (at
least on a Mac's system palette).

So my advice, get your design done before you get to your computer.  Then,
make sure that this site is communicating what it's supposed to - something
about the personal you.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "bull3t" <initium at barrysworld.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Design Critique
>Date: Thu, Aug 30, 2001, 1:00 AM
>

> Don't be *TOO* brutal, but check out
http://www.chaos-crew.com/bull3t/test/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> While I don't have any content yet, I think this will be my personal
> information page for Web Design class.
>
> Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Aug 31 09:37:55 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Aug 31 09:37:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FD1@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8FA02E.134FB78D@webtuitive.com>

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:

> I made the changes you suggested but I'm now getting a javascript error on
> page 2 saying "documents.forms.quiz.q1 is not an object". What am I doing
> wrong?

Your script's reference to the form name and the form name itself
don't match --

/* from script */
	eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
 
<!-- in body -->
	<form name="page1answers" method="get" action="page3.htm">

Also, the values aren't being set, so 

/* old */
       var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
       value = unescape(value);                  // Store as a decoded value
       eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
  
/* new - changing "value" to a non-reserved word :-) */

	var thisValue = pairs[i].substring(pos+1); // Extract the value

	thisValue = unescape(thisValue);           // Store as a decoded value
	document.forms['quiz'].elements[argname].value = thisValue;

> Also, assuming everything else is ok, what line(s) of code do I use on page3
> to access my stored answers?

Example: move the function code out of the head and put it where you want
to display it --

	<!-- within the body -->
<p>Your answers were as follows:<p>

<script language="javascript">

   var query = location.search.substring(1);     // Get query string

   var pairs = query.split("&");                 // Split at ampersand

   for (var i=0; i < pairs.length; i++)
	{
	var pos = pairs[i].indexOf('=');          // Look for "name=value"

	if (pos == -1) continue;                  // If not found, skip

	var argname = pairs[i].substring(0,pos);  // Extract the name

	var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value

	value = unescape(value);          	 // Store as a decoded value
	document.write(argname + " = " + value + "<br />");
	}
</script>

I'll leave the grading part to you :-) 

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From jamie.bakum at circle.com  Fri Aug 31 09:50:32 2001
From: jamie.bakum at circle.com (Jamie Bakum)
Date: Fri Aug 31 09:50:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
In-Reply-To: <p05001909b7b502a83700@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <B7B51B8B.5699%jamie.bakum@circle.com>

> I'm wondering if you could take a look at
> 
> http://www.framarstudios.com/

Hi Frank -

One thing I noticed with colors -

Not sure if you were trying to match them, but the brick red in the logo
doesn't match the bright red text headers you have (at least on my system,
Mac OS 9.1, IE5) and it's unlikely (impossible) you could get them to render
the same across browsers and platforms (unless they were all gifs, which
defeats the purpose of the style sheets).

They're close enough in hue that they're fighting with each other - so
perhaps you might play with the header color. One effect I find works well
with headers is to try one of the greys (#666666 or #999999 to start) so
they're set off from the body text but still a neutral color -

Just my .02 cents. 

(When did the cent key disappear from the keyboard? I remember it on my
Dad's Smith-Corona, but I thought I remember computers with it too. Ahh well
- rapidly becoming a boring old fart...)
---

Jamie Bakum




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 10:00:16 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:00:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FE4@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Hassan

As you can see, it now almost works. The only snag is that the first three
variables always seem to be undefined. I've tried to work out why but I
can't spot it. Can you? Hopefully this'll be the last time I have to bother
you.

Cheers

Albie Attias


http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm




-----Original Message-----
From: Hassan Schroeder [mailto:hassan at webtuitive.com]
Sent: 31 August 2001 15:33
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)


ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:

> I made the changes you suggested but I'm now getting a javascript error on
> page 2 saying "documents.forms.quiz.q1 is not an object". What am I doing
> wrong?

Your script's reference to the form name and the form name itself
don't match --

/* from script */
	eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
 
<!-- in body -->
	<form name="page1answers" method="get" action="page3.htm">

Also, the values aren't being set, so 

/* old */
       var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
       value = unescape(value);                  // Store as a decoded value
       eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
  
/* new - changing "value" to a non-reserved word :-) */

	var thisValue = pairs[i].substring(pos+1); // Extract the value

	thisValue = unescape(thisValue);           // Store as a decoded
value
	document.forms['quiz'].elements[argname].value = thisValue;

> Also, assuming everything else is ok, what line(s) of code do I use on
page3
> to access my stored answers?

Example: move the function code out of the head and put it where you want
to display it --

	<!-- within the body -->
<p>Your answers were as follows:<p>

<script language="javascript">

   var query = location.search.substring(1);     // Get query string

   var pairs = query.split("&");                 // Split at ampersand

   for (var i=0; i < pairs.length; i++)
	{
	var pos = pairs[i].indexOf('=');          // Look for "name=value"

	if (pos == -1) continue;                  // If not found, skip

	var argname = pairs[i].substring(0,pos);  // Extract the name

	var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value

	value = unescape(value);          	 // Store as a decoded value
	document.write(argname + " = " + value + "<br />");
	}
</script>

I'll leave the grading part to you :-) 

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Aug 31 10:05:59 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:05:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
Message-ID: <01c1322d$c0073720$fb50149a@rudy>

> (When did the cent key disappear from the keyboard?
> Ahh well - rapidly becoming a boring old fart...)

hi jamie

? is just to the left of the tilde (~) on most keyboards

and welcome to the BOF club, my term as chairman will not be up
until next year, but we have a couple of directorships open...


<tip>
does your search & replace utility allow you to manipulate new line
characters? this comes in real handy when viewing someone else's source
code --

for example, to focus your attention on html tags, replace < with \n< and
then replace \n</ with </

to make style sheets and javascript readable, replace ; with \n;

</tip>


rudy





From mpember at phreaker.net  Fri Aug 31 10:12:55 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:12:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FE4@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8FA832.EAB7734@phreaker.net>

replace:
       eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + thisValue
+ ";");
with this:
       eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value='" + thisValue
+ "';");

This will result in the value being considered a string instead of an
object name.

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> Hassan
> 
> As you can see, it now almost works. The only snag is that the first three
> variables always seem to be undefined. I've tried to work out why but I
> can't spot it. Can you? Hopefully this'll be the last time I have to bother
> you.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Albie Attias
> 
> http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hassan Schroeder [mailto:hassan at webtuitive.com]
> Sent: 31 August 2001 15:33
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
> 
> ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> > I made the changes you suggested but I'm now getting a javascript error on
> > page 2 saying "documents.forms.quiz.q1 is not an object". What am I doing
> > wrong?
> 
> Your script's reference to the form name and the form name itself
> don't match --
> 
> /* from script */
>         eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
> 
> <!-- in body -->
>         <form name="page1answers" method="get" action="page3.htm">
> 
> Also, the values aren't being set, so
> 
> /* old */
>        var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
>        value = unescape(value);                  // Store as a decoded value
>        eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + value + ";");
> 
> /* new - changing "value" to a non-reserved word :-) */
> 
>         var thisValue = pairs[i].substring(pos+1); // Extract the value
> 
>         thisValue = unescape(thisValue);           // Store as a decoded
> value
>         document.forms['quiz'].elements[argname].value = thisValue;
> 
> > Also, assuming everything else is ok, what line(s) of code do I use on
> page3
> > to access my stored answers?
> 
> Example: move the function code out of the head and put it where you want
> to display it --
> 
>         <!-- within the body -->
> <p>Your answers were as follows:<p>
> 
> <script language="javascript">
> 
>    var query = location.search.substring(1);     // Get query string
> 
>    var pairs = query.split("&");                 // Split at ampersand
> 
>    for (var i=0; i < pairs.length; i++)
>         {
>         var pos = pairs[i].indexOf('=');          // Look for "name=value"
> 
>         if (pos == -1) continue;                  // If not found, skip
> 
>         var argname = pairs[i].substring(0,pos);  // Extract the name
> 
>         var value = pairs[i].substring(pos+1);    // Extract the value
> 
>         value = unescape(value);                 // Store as a decoded value
>         document.write(argname + " = " + value + "<br />");
>         }
> </script>
> 
> I'll leave the grading part to you :-)
> 
> HTH!
> --
> H*
> Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
> Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
> 
>     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 10:15:57 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:15:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FEC@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Thanks Michael, that worked a treat!




From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 10:20:59 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:20:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FEF@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Although if I was being a perfectionist, I'd like to eliminate the "Object
expected" error message on page3.htm


http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm




-----Original Message-----
From: ALBIE ATTIAS [mailto:ALBIE at eurosimm.com]
Sent: 31 August 2001 16:13
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)


Thanks Michael, that worked a treat!


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Aug 31 10:28:47 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:28:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FE4@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8FAC1A.98AF635F@webtuitive.com>

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:

> As you can see, it now almost works. The only snag is that the first three
> variables always seem to be undefined. I've tried to work out why but I
> can't spot it. 

I'd replace the superfluous eval statement ...

/* old */

       eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + thisValue + ";");

/* new */

	document.forms['quiz'].elements[argname].value = thisValue;

This works on a copy of your page I made. It's much cleaner (more 
readable, more maintainable) code.

/*
   A comment on eval():
 
   Using eval as above takes actual objects and treats their name(s) 
   as a string - in order to be evaluated as objects. What's the point?

   YMMV! :-)
 */ 
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Aug 31 10:33:26 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:33:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FEF@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8FAD32.9FC420C9@webtuitive.com>

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> Although if I was being a perfectionist, I'd like to eliminate the "Object
> expected" error message on page3.htm

Netscape's JS debugger says "getArgs is not defined" -- and sure
enough, the onload is calling getArgs() which no longer exists in 
this page ... :-)

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Fri Aug 31 10:35:04 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:35:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FF6@EUROSIMMLTD01>

cheers Hassan - you're a star!


-----Original Message-----
From: Hassan Schroeder [mailto:hassan at webtuitive.com]
Sent: 31 August 2001 16:29
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)


ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> Although if I was being a perfectionist, I'd like to eliminate the "Object
> expected" error message on page3.htm

Netscape's JS debugger says "getArgs is not defined" -- and sure
enough, the onload is calling getArgs() which no longer exists in 
this page ... :-)

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From mpember at phreaker.net  Fri Aug 31 10:37:24 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:37:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FEF@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <3B8FAE1D.BBC17AA0@phreaker.net>

That is what that change is doing.

eval("document.forms['quiz']." + argname + ".value=" + thisValue + ";");

the above will result in JS trying to execute:

document.forms['quiz'].q1.value=Sofia;

You don't have a variable / object called Sofia and as such it causes
the error.

ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
> 
> Although if I was being a perfectionist, I'd like to eliminate the "Object
> expected" error message on page3.htm
> 
> http://www.eurosimm.com/page1.htm
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ALBIE ATTIAS [mailto:ALBIE at eurosimm.com]
> Sent: 31 August 2001 16:13
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
> 
> Thanks Michael, that worked a treat!
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From mpember at phreaker.net  Fri Aug 31 10:40:56 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:40:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript variable issue (continued)
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144FE4@EUROSIMMLTD01> <3B8FAC1A.98AF635F@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FAEF0.FF11A4EC@phreaker.net>

> /*
>    A comment on eval():
> 
>    Using eval as above takes actual objects and treats their name(s)
>    as a string - in order to be evaluated as objects. What's the point?
> 
>    YMMV! :-)
>  */

I have written custom .toString() methods for some of my own objects
that means that I can customise what is actually replaced when I try
using the object as a string.  Useful for writing common timeout calls
when the actual object is not always known by its real name.

-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010




From feed at chicken3.com  Fri Aug 31 10:41:39 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:41:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
Message-ID: <200108311541.f7VFfdE21715@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Frank.  Here are some thoughts...

You have some great things happening with your logo that could be continued
throughout your site.  The curves could work somewhere on a larger scale.
The fonts in the logo could be pulled out for headers and footers, etc.

Your Logo - As I understand from your site, you develop code.  An exciting
and rewarding activity to those of us who do it (I love Cold Fusion!), but
usually viewed as some geeky and boring task to outsiders.  To me, you logo
says corporate and professional until you get to the colors.  The blue you
have chosen is a strong, common color for conveying a corporate,
professional attitude without overpowering.  However, the pastel/brick color
takes away from that feel.  I keep wanting this to be some oil painters or
portrait painters website.

Don't get me wrong, your logo is your identity, and if this says "you" or
what you want it to say about you, then please leave it alone, because it is
a pretty nice logo.  I think you may find more success by changing that
pastel/brick color to something with more presence say an orange-red, a
solid red, or even a lighter shade of orange.

I think the "Tip" portion of your site is a great concept!  I wonder if it
could be in a better location however...

I can't get my eyes to go past the very large red type you have used for
headers (1024 x 768 res on a Mac).  I am all for clear type on screen,
because of the lack of readability with screen text, but, maybe you could
size stuff down just a hair?

Ok, that's enough from me.  I think your content is there and enough for
substance.  Now you need to develop the visual - something I would start
from the logo and develop from there.


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com



----------
>From: Frank <framar at interlog.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
>Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001, 2:02 AM
>

>
> Hey folks,
>
> I'm wondering if you could take a look at
>
> http://www.framarstudios.com/
>
> It's my own site, and aside from being a little short on content
> (that I haven't added all my apps yet) I'm generally pleased with it
> at this phase.
>
> Please feel free to critique it from any point of view. No holds barred.
>
> Thanks!
> --
>
>
> A bucket full of water does not splash about,
>              only a bucket half-full splashes.
>                                            -- Malayan Proverb.
>
> Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
> frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Fri Aug 31 11:12:38 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Fri Aug 31 11:12:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
References: <B7B4440D.C150%janice@discoverysystems.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FB6B9.6983CEBA@sam-i-am.com>

Don't know if anyone replied yet, but I just took a quick look, so:

The top tier navigation items like "Calendar" should be bold right? And
you have classed the TD so that stuff in it should appear bold. This all
trickles down correctly in IE, but not so in Netscape. I think you'll
need to class the A so that it too is explicitly bold.

(also it wouldn't hurt to move the style block into the HEAD. Netscape
will be less forgiving of this than IE. ) Even better make it a linked
style sheet so it gets cached and there's less to maintain... that is if
it doesn't change between pages. )

Also keep an eye on that font. Your font sizes are so small, you may
bump into the problem where a bold font-weight just doesn't exist (or is
no different than the regular) at that size. 

> Making the page quite narrow makes the bottom middle left column 'bleed'
> into the right (not quite sure how it can even do that since these are table
> cells) on both Mac and Windows instead of flowing down the table cell.
> 

could be fixed no-wrappable content, could be a html error that a
validator will pick up. Could be other stuff. I'll look back later today
if I've time and you've got no more answers. 



Sam



From cancilla.d at buckconsultants.com  Fri Aug 31 11:59:46 2001
From: cancilla.d at buckconsultants.com (Cancilla Dominick)
Date: Fri Aug 31 11:59:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] What shopping cart is this?
Message-ID: <20010831165456.16641.qmail@mellon.com>

I've been asked to "reverse engineer" a Website for a small store whose
Webmaster skipped out on them. The owners of the site know nothing about
how the site was put together and don't even have the passwords to the
server it's on.

As part of the job, I need to figure out what shopping cart system was used
so that I can recreate the site on a new server with a minimum of work. The
main page in the store contains the following code, which I'm hoping will
tell someone out there what cart system is being used (or if it's a custom
one):

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
SRC="Program/ConfigSHPro.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
TYPE="text/javascript" SRC="Program/SHPro35.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT
LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
SRC="Program/SHProHelp.js"></SCRIPT>

Any help?

--Dominick
*****************************************************************
DISCLAIMER:   The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential
and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee.  Access, copying
or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other
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From jcrawford at avencom.com  Fri Aug 31 12:01:02 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:01:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
References: <3B8E81F2.58D48B22@avencom.com> <3B8E8ABC.7070300@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FC130.97C18F1F@avencom.com>

"Daniel J. Cody" wrote:
> Check out webmin: http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
> 
> its pretty much the defacto for web based administration on linux :)

and
Cayley Vos wrote:
> 
> one possibility, although somewhat clumsy (IMHO), is webmin (i'm a mac
> guy).   http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
> I have also worked on other types of systems that I would be happy to
> talk with you about.
> 

Thanks Dan & Cayley - this looks like a really good start! It's kind of
a swiss army knife of a tool, when I only need the corkscrew - but there
may be a way to adapt it.

Appreciate the advice very much!

	Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From matthew.garrett at snet.net  Fri Aug 31 12:06:25 2001
From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:06:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] What shopping cart is this?
In-Reply-To: <20010831165456.16641.qmail@mellon.com>
Message-ID: <B7B53D1E.87E6%matthew.garrett@snet.net>

a search for 'SHpro cart' on Google brings you this:
http://www.hallisoft.com/Shpro/Shpro.html

it looks like what you're looking for...

matt

> From: Cancilla Dominick <cancilla.d at buckconsultants.com>

> 
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
> SRC="Program/ConfigSHPro.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
> TYPE="text/javascript" SRC="Program/SHPro35.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT
> LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
> SRC="Program/SHProHelp.js"></SCRIPT>




From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri Aug 31 12:07:31 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:07:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Generating PDFs in CGI
Message-ID: <3B8F8B30.31817.18CBB217@localhost>

I want to generate custom documents for users to print. 

I've noticed that many applications generate PostScript and then
use Ghostscript (or Distiller) to convert the file to PDF. 

Is generating PDFs *directly* such a bear that I ought to take this
approach?  (FWIW, I was planning to write this in C, but doing it in
PERL is not a problem if there is a good reason.)

I've never worked with PS, EPS or PDF format file internals, and I
thought I ought to ask before I write a big check to Barnes & Noble
for manuals and commit a week or more of my life to learning them.

deke











------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Fri Aug 31 12:10:00 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:10:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] apply PRE formatting with css?
References: <20010831010708.D10188@nikolai.prokoschenko.comp>
	 <v0422081cb7b479a68ce0@[192.168.1.2]> <5.1.0.14.0.20010830182252.021591b0@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FC35F.98F9BBA6@avencom.com>

You should take a look at this - this is the CSS1 spec:
	http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#white-space

I fear though, that I can't comment on how reliable it is among actual
browsers. 

Best,
	Joe <http://artlung.com/>

nate koechley wrote:
> i was wondering if there was a way to achieve this:
> <div><pre>
>         source code
> </pre></div>
> without the <pre> tags. in other words, can I apply "pre" formatting by
> using CSS? I'm tyring to find the best way to display source code on a
> page. is there a best practice out there to display source code on the page?
> 
> on a related note, does anybody have a script or homesite extension form
> translating all the [< ] to [ &lt; ] (acutally, all the carets, quotes,
> etc...)?

-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 12:10:18 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:10:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] What shopping cart is this?
In-Reply-To: <20010831165456.16641.qmail@mellon.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEICJCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

dominick,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Cancilla Dominick
> 
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
>         TYPE="text/javascript"
>         SRC="Program/ConfigSHPro.js"
> ></SCRIPT>
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
>         TYPE="text/javascript"
>         SRC="Program/SHPro35.js"
> ></SCRIPT>
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
>         TYPE="text/javascript"
>         SRC="Program/SHProHelp.js"
> ></SCRIPT>
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

a quick search on google for "javascript SHPro" turned up the following:

http://www.hallisoft.com/

and more specifically:

http://www.hallisoft.com/Shpro/

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From mm80xx at optushome.com.au  Fri Aug 31 12:16:16 2001
From: mm80xx at optushome.com.au (Minh Tran)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:16:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
References: <3B8E81F2.58D48B22@avencom.com> <3B8E8ABC.7070300@starkmedia.com> <3B8FC130.97C18F1F@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <002301c11a48$bec789c0$4b39a4cb@farfl1.nsw.optushome.com.au>

does anyone know where i can get paid industrial training???
i've looked everywhere and all people want is experience
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Crawford" <jcrawford at avencom.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp


> "Daniel J. Cody" wrote:
> > Check out webmin: http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
> > 
> > its pretty much the defacto for web based administration on linux :)
> 
> and
> Cayley Vos wrote:
> > 
> > one possibility, although somewhat clumsy (IMHO), is webmin (i'm a mac
> > guy).   http://www.webmin.com/webmin/
> > I have also worked on other types of systems that I would be happy to
> > talk with you about.
> > 
> 
> Thanks Dan & Cayley - this looks like a really good start! It's kind of
> a swiss army knife of a tool, when I only need the corkscrew - but there
> may be a way to adapt it.
> 
> Appreciate the advice very much!
> 
> Joe <http://artlung.com/>
> -- 
> ...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
> .....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
> .... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From animus at mac.com  Fri Aug 31 12:28:09 2001
From: animus at mac.com (Phineas X. Jones)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:28:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE5/Mac Loading Stall-Out
Message-ID: <20010831122333.862%83072@mail>

Hiya Listers,

Been lurking for sometime now and gleaning usefulness, but now I've got a
problem I'm stumped with and thought I'd throw it out.

I have a new site - http://anexquisitecorpse.net/ - which is built with 
Greymatter backend cgi magic. Things seem largely ok with it, except that
accessing the main page - http://anexquisitecorpse.net/corpse.shtml - is causing
errors in IE5/Mac. Specifically, every third or fourth time I look at the page
with this browser I will get a loading message in the bottom bar and a spinning
beachball and nothing else. I have to force quit the browser to get out. Does
someone know what would be causing this? It's not happening in any other version
of IE or NS6 or Mozilla. 

I should note that it's all build with CSS layout, so looking at the page in
NN4.x or any other such will not shed much light on the problem.

TIA,

px;

--
Jesus hates my team.

:[ http://nocommercialpotential.net ]:



From martin at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 12:45:19 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:45:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
Message-ID: <011095840171f81PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Minh Tran wrote on 1/8/01 6:13 am

>does anyone know where i can get paid industrial training???
>i've looked everywhere and all people want is experience

It's the 'paid' bit that I think is holding you up.

Traditionally in craft industries like this one, you got
into it through one of 3 means:

1) Working at something vaguely related and there's
    no-one else to do the work, so you teach yourself.
    By the time you're ready to do it fulltime, you have
    lots of experience in a commercial environment

2) You start as a freelance (which is pretty good
    for *ahem* enhancing what you do on a daily basis),
    with no paid work, and do stuff for free until you
    have a portfolio good enough to convince paying
    clients that you're worth a go

3) Variation on 1 - you've got enough client contacts
    and skills and bullshit and image (=money) to convince
    a client that it wouldn't be a problem for you.

In each case, you start off with not officially being paid
to learn, and gaining experience through your early work.

It sounds like you're in case (2) (which is where I started
some years back). Do work for free to get the experience.
Do your own site - it still counts. Do sites for local charities.

Oh, and talk about work under NDA which you can only hint
about... (technically known as 'lying' but it gets you through
in extremis, as long as you *can* do the work)

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Aug 31 13:14:49 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Aug 31 13:14:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] apply PRE formatting with css?
References: <20010831010708.D10188@nikolai.prokoschenko.comp>
		 <v0422081cb7b479a68ce0@[192.168.1.2]> <5.1.0.14.0.20010830182252.021591b0@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com> <3B8FC35F.98F9BBA6@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FD305.84E1039F@webtuitive.com>

Joe Crawford wrote:
> 
> You should take a look at this - this is the CSS1 spec:
>         http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#white-space
> 
> I fear though, that I can't comment on how reliable it is among actual
> browsers.

FWIW:

NS 4.7x, NS 6.1, Opera 5.0 seem good

IE 5.x and Amaya 5.1 ignore "white-space: pre;"

/* though from the above spec:

  CSS1 core: UAs may ignore the 'white-space' property in author's 
  and reader's style sheets, and use the UA's default values instead. 

  This "may ignore" is also part of CSS2 ...
 */
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From sfmalo at msn.com  Fri Aug 31 13:17:32 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Fri Aug 31 13:17:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] MPEG video not displaying in N6.01
Message-ID: <001101c13248$27b39840$2c29193f@oemcomputer>

Another puzzle. I discovered that all I needed to do to place  a video MPEG
in an HTML page was to use <a href> and the full URL. I had used <obj> and
<embed> with all the params and got bad results. It displays and plays just
fine in IE5.5 and NN4.7. But not a thing displays in N6.01, not even the
link!

Any ideas as to what I should do? Here's the reference:
http://www.24caratdesign.com/Steven/stevesphotos1.html

Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From mm80xx at optushome.com.au  Fri Aug 31 13:31:43 2001
From: mm80xx at optushome.com.au (Minh Tran)
Date: Fri Aug 31 13:31:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
References: <011095840171f81PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004f01c11a53$499cb8e0$4b39a4cb@farfl1.nsw.optushome.com.au>

Hi Martin,
thanx for the advice. I kind of figured i need to go do some free work,
funny thing is we aren't allowed to actually do free work. Thats part of uni
life for ya. From what our uni advisor has told us, since the industrial
training is actually part of our degree (worth 10 credit) it has to be paid
work.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin" <martin at members.evolt.org>
To: "thelist" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp


> Minh Tran wrote on 1/8/01 6:13 am
>
> >does anyone know where i can get paid industrial training???
> >i've looked everywhere and all people want is experience
>
> It's the 'paid' bit that I think is holding you up.
>
> Traditionally in craft industries like this one, you got
> into it through one of 3 means:
>
> 1) Working at something vaguely related and there's
>     no-one else to do the work, so you teach yourself.
>     By the time you're ready to do it fulltime, you have
>     lots of experience in a commercial environment
>
> 2) You start as a freelance (which is pretty good
>     for *ahem* enhancing what you do on a daily basis),
>     with no paid work, and do stuff for free until you
>     have a portfolio good enough to convince paying
>     clients that you're worth a go
>
> 3) Variation on 1 - you've got enough client contacts
>     and skills and bullshit and image (=money) to convince
>     a client that it wouldn't be a problem for you.
>
> In each case, you start off with not officially being paid
> to learn, and gaining experience through your early work.
>
> It sounds like you're in case (2) (which is where I started
> some years back). Do work for free to get the experience.
> Do your own site - it still counts. Do sites for local charities.
>
> Oh, and talk about work under NDA which you can only hint
> about... (technically known as 'lying' but it gets you through
> in extremis, as long as you *can* do the work)
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
>        martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
>   tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
>   url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From gnarly at gmx.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 13:50:29 2001
From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 13:50:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript window question
Message-ID: <006901c1324c$e95e9e00$9865fea9@uridium>

Hi all,

<JS NEWBIE ALERT!>

Is there a cross browser compatible way opening a modal window? A friend
sent me this:

<a onmouseover="this.style.cursor='hand';"
onclick="javascript:window.showModalDialog('gallery/gt.htm','GT','dialogWidt
h=204px;dialogHeight=177px;center=yes;help=no;scroll=no;status=no;');">

Which is great, except it only works in IE4+, fine for him as he is
developing exclusively for IE users. Whats the best method for the rest of
us to use?

Thanks in advance,
Cheers,

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Aug 31 14:02:16 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:02:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript window question
In-Reply-To: <006901c1324c$e95e9e00$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831115401.02c02a30@baratta.com>

At 11:44 AM 8/31/2001, you wrote:

>Is there a cross browser compatible way opening a modal window?

"Modal-ness" is an IE only trait. If you want to pop a new window and bring 
it forward here is one way to do that:

<a 
href="javascript:popWindow('./popup.html','_winName','230','180','scrollbars=no,resize=no');">Click 
Here for PopUp Window</a>

function popWindow(theURL,winName,winWidth,winHeight,otherFeatures) {
   var x = 0;
   var y = 0;
   x = (screen.availWidth - 12 - winWidth) / 2;
   y = (screen.availHeight - 48 - winHeight) / 2;
   if (otherFeatures != "") {otherFeatures = "," + otherFeatures}
   var features = "screenX=" + x + ",screenY=" + y + ",width=" + winWidth + 
",height=" + winHeight+",top="+y+",left="+x+"'" + otherFeatures
   var NewWindow = window.open(theURL,winName,features);
   NewWindow.focus();
}
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From sfmalo at msn.com  Fri Aug 31 14:16:45 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:16:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: outlook 2002 (xp) doesnt recognize my connection!!
References: <20010831082823.35240.qmail@web10701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003701c13250$6d4e3920$2c29193f@oemcomputer>

I had the very same problem last night ... for hours. I use Outlook Express
and MSN for dial-up access. Couldn't send messages or receive. I finally
went to MSN's online tech support and was told they were having problems
which would be fixed sometime in the next few hours. Gave up around 2 am.
Now, everything's fine. Grrrr. This happens too frequently with MSN.
S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erick Papadakis" <erick_papadakis at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:28 AM

> sorry for the OT posting but i am having a headache
> getting my outlook 2002 (office xp) to recognize my
> online connection on DSL! when i upgraded this
> morning, it recognized and upgraded my accounts from
> my old outlook 2000 settings just fine - i mean it
> picked up the POP and SMTP information correctly - but
> despite that, it just keeps giving me this error when
> i check my email:
>
>   Task 'Erick Papadakis' - Sending and Receiving
> reported error (ox80004005): 'The operation failed'
>
>
> can some help me please? thanks!!
>
> erick
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com





From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri Aug 31 14:21:15 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:21:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] What shopping cart is this?
In-Reply-To: <20010831165456.16641.qmail@mellon.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FAA94.20969.1946560D@localhost>

On 31 Aug 2001, at 12:58, Cancilla Dominick posted a message which said:

> I've been asked to "reverse engineer" a Website for a small store whose
> Webmaster skipped out on them. The owners of the site know nothing about
> how the site was put together and don't even have the passwords to the
> server it's on.
 
> As part of the job, I need to figure out what shopping cart system was used
> so that I can recreate the site on a new server with a minimum of work. The
> main page in the store contains the following code, which I'm hoping will
> tell someone out there what cart system is being used (or if it's a custom
> one):
 
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
> SRC="Program/ConfigSHPro.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javaScript"
> TYPE="text/javascript" SRC="Program/SHPro35.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT
> LANGUAGE="javaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"
> SRC="Program/SHProHelp.js"></SCRIPT>
 
> Any help?

Clue one: Webmasters rarely skip out, leaving the owners without
passwords to the site unless they refused to pay him. Get your
money up front - or at least most of it - or you'll be working for free,
too.

Clue two: www.google.com

Clue three: the src is "SHPro35.js", which would tend
to suggest version 3.5 of SHPro

Clue four: if you don't have access to the server files, it
will be *harder* to rebuild the data files than to start over
and build Version Two of the site, which is easier to use,
produces more sales, and is far easier to maintain. No
reason to use the same shopping cart.

Don't let bullies on the beach kick sand in your face and
tell you you're a clueless webmaster. You have *four* clues 
now.

deke

















------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 14:29:49 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:29:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Check - PresentationKit
In-Reply-To: <20010831021812.28345.qmail@web3201.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMEEBJFFAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Eek!

Scrollathon time!

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> Ok, here's the next site check in our little family.
> 
> Look at http://www.presentationkit.com/info.htm



From gnarly at punkass.com  Fri Aug 31 14:37:58 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:37:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript window question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831115401.02c02a30@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <008901c13252$79091530$9865fea9@uridium>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Baratta" <Anthony at Baratta.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Javascript window question


> >Is there a cross browser compatible way opening a modal window?
>
> "Modal-ness" is an IE only trait. If you want to pop a new window and
bring
> it forward here is one way to do that:

Thankyou :-) That works brilliantly. Netscape 4 seems to ignore it but I
think my install is severly buggered as its been doing all sorts of freaky
stuff lately...

Cheers,

Olly





From marciaanddarin at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 14:38:54 2001
From: marciaanddarin at yahoo.com (Marcia)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:38:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Logo Help
Message-ID: <20010831193419.28758.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi
I am in the process of creating my logo..am looking
for a face with glasses(hand-drawn).  Any suggestions
on where to look?  I want it to be fun and colorful :)
Thanks for your help
Marcia



From martin at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 14:50:47 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:50:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] What shopping cart is this?
Message-ID: <0c8ed2646191f81PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk>

deke wrote on 31/8/01 8:17 pm

>Clue four: if you don't have access to the server files, it
>will be *harder* to rebuild the data files than to start over
>and build Version Two of the site, which is easier to use,
>produces more sales, and is far easier to maintain. No
>reason to use the same shopping cart.

And Accessible:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-scripts

If the basic functionality relies on client-side JS, you're
in deep, deep accessibility trouble.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 14:53:03 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:53:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Seeking web based user management for ftp
Message-ID: <0108f4348191f81PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Minh Tran wrote on 1/8/01 7:29 am

>thanx for the advice. I kind of figured i need to go do some free work,
>funny thing is we aren't allowed to actually do free work. Thats part of uni
>life for ya. From what our uni advisor has told us, since the industrial
>training is actually part of our degree (worth 10 credit) it has to be paid
>work.

Well you come to an arrangement which says you're paid, but it's
a nominal fee.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 14:54:27 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Fri Aug 31 14:54:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Logo Help
In-Reply-To: <20010831193419.28758.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010831194956.54943.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>

Do you mean eyeglasses? I wouldn't recommend trying to find a typeface that incorporates
art with type. That always looks horsey, not to mention that it's going to look exactly
like the next person's logo who happens to use the same typeface.

Instead, try getting your illustration from the MiniPics series

http://www.eyewire.com/products/type/imageclub/ic-m.html

And then marrying the illustration with great typography of your choice. And as far as
fun and colurful... that's up to you: make it so!

/rg

--- Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I am in the process of creating my logo..am looking
> for a face with glasses(hand-drawn).  Any suggestions
> on where to look?  I want it to be fun and colorful :)
> Thanks for your help
> Marcia
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From feed at chicken3.com  Fri Aug 31 15:17:23 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:17:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Logo Help
Message-ID: <200108312017.f7VKHME09588@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Marcia.

Believe it or not, your best solution is going to come from your own hand
(and a little bit of elbow grease).  And, you're not allowed to use the "I
can't draw" excuse...everyone has the ability to draw...and if you want it
to be fun and colorful..get out your markers and a good ol' blank piece of
white paper and go nuts!  Here you will find the color's to use.

I know it's hard to start from nothing, but when you start by looking at
what others have done, or something prefab, you stand the very chance of
making something unoriginal, stagnant, and not "you."  It's ok to look at
successful work done by others, just as long as you use it only as a
learning tool as to "why" their work is successful.

Most of all, have fun!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: Marcia <marciaanddarin at yahoo.com>
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Logo Help
>Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001, 12:34 PM
>

> Hi
> I am in the process of creating my logo..am looking
> for a face with glasses(hand-drawn).  Any suggestions
> on where to look?  I want it to be fun and colorful :)
> Thanks for your help
> Marcia
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From seyon at delime.com  Fri Aug 31 15:42:24 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:42:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
In-Reply-To: <p05001909b7b502a83700@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010831161008.00a41f38@mail.delime.com>

Hi Frank,

I like the clean layout. Nice and simple.
but...

The red headers are a bit too large in comparison to the rest of the body 
text. Kinda even pushes the logo into the background, and you probably 
don't want that.

And, the very pastelly colour you use to highlight a:hover links looks a 
little out of place against the background. Not sure why. Also on my laptop 
display, it's so light it doesn't show up at all. Which means there's 
almost no change between regular and hovered links.

Oh yeah, you've got one glaring typo that jumped out on me. On the All Tips 
page. The header "Miscellanious" should be "Miscellaneous".

In NN6, on the Contact page, the asterisks cause the alignment of the 
textboxes to break. And in NN4.7, they just don't show up at all (the 
asterisks, not the textboxes). On other minor thing that doesn't work in 
NN4 is the black vertical line between the nav and content divs.

How bout linking your logo back to the main page on the subpages?

At 8/31/2001 05:02 AM, you wrote:

>Hey folks,
>
>I'm wondering if you could take a look at
>
>http://www.framarstudios.com/




From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 31 15:47:08 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:47:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
Message-ID: <000901c1325d$70320c40$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

I'm stretching here, 'cause I don't want to have to combine two very
different databases just to get this working again. Is it possible for a
field in one database to reference a field in another database?

spinhead






From joshua at alphashop.net  Fri Aug 31 15:49:15 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:49:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
References: <000901c1325d$70320c40$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <007d01c1325e$894c7b10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

I've never heard of a database that supported that feature  :(  Perhaps you
can code something in the middleware to get it working again?

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?


: I'm stretching here, 'cause I don't want to have to combine two very
: different databases just to get this working again. Is it possible for a
: field in one database to reference a field in another database?
:
: spinhead




From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 31 15:56:10 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:56:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
References: <000901c1325d$70320c40$aa01000a@HEISENBERG> <007d01c1325e$894c7b10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1325e$ab5f7900$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>

Apologies; babbling incompletely again:

MS SQL 2000 - created a db for our Request for PO application. It included
employee info. Later, built a 'grand scheme' core db for other ongoing
purposes, which also included employee info. PO app needs to reference the
employee table in the new db now, but foreign keys from two tables point to
the original employee table.

I'm thinking my only solution is to remove said constraints, move the tables
to the new db, then create new constraints.

Is there an easier way?

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?


> I've never heard of a database that supported that feature  :(  Perhaps
you
> can code something in the middleware to get it working again?
>
> -joshua
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
> Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
>
>
> : I'm stretching here, 'cause I don't want to have to combine two very
> : different databases just to get this working again. Is it possible for a
> : field in one database to reference a field in another database?
> :
> : spinhead
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From info at webdisplays.com  Fri Aug 31 15:56:31 2001
From: info at webdisplays.com (Phil)
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:56:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shockwave Problem - Hosting Service?
In-Reply-To: <20010830225114.CD0BAC18@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010831075216.007b9d60@webdisplays.com>

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From joshua at alphashop.net  Fri Aug 31 16:05:05 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 16:05:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
References: <000901c1325d$70320c40$aa01000a@HEISENBERG> <007d01c1325e$894c7b10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <000f01c1325e$ab5f7900$aa01000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <008e01c13260$bf8be470$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Merging the databases like you've suggested is most likely the only way to
be able to do queries that reference both sets of data.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?


: Apologies; babbling incompletely again:
:
: MS SQL 2000 - created a db for our Request for PO application. It included
: employee info. Later, built a 'grand scheme' core db for other ongoing
: purposes, which also included employee info. PO app needs to reference the
: employee table in the new db now, but foreign keys from two tables point
to
: the original employee table.
:
: I'm thinking my only solution is to remove said constraints, move the
tables
: to the new db, then create new constraints.
:
: Is there an easier way?
:
: spinhead




From info at discoverysystems.com  Fri Aug 31 16:11:23 2001
From: info at discoverysystems.com (Discovery Systems)
Date: Fri Aug 31 16:11:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
In-Reply-To: <3B8FB6B9.6983CEBA@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <B7B574B6.C1BF%info@discoverysystems.com>

Thanks MUCH Sam...

Was beginning to become despondent with no solution to these probs...

on 8/31/01 12:09 PM, you wrote:

> The top tier navigation items like "Calendar" should be bold right? And
> you have classed the TD so that stuff in it should appear bold. This all
> trickles down correctly in IE, but not so in Netscape. I think you'll
> need to class the A so that it too is explicitly bold.
Tried that - no difference.

Note that my headlines are also defined as 'bold' but this attribute is not
displaying - on Windows - in NN. There's no pseudo links associated with
headlines.


> (also it wouldn't hurt to move the style block into the HEAD. Netscape
> will be less forgiving of this than IE. ) Even better make it a linked
> style sheet so it gets cached and there's less to maintain... that is if
> it doesn't change between pages. )
Will pass this one on to the CF programmer we are working with - he has
defined the style sheet in a 'global' cfm that gets loaded first for every
page. Hmmm... will the stylesheet get cached if it is 'linked' to this cfm
page?

> Also keep an eye on that font. Your font sizes are so small, you may
> bump into the problem where a bold font-weight just doesn't exist (or is
> no different than the regular) at that size.
Thanks for that tip... have updated a few of the font sizes for better
display in Netscape.

>> Making the page quite narrow makes the bottom middle left column 'bleed'
>> into the right (not quite sure how it can even do that since these are table
>> cells) on both Mac and Windows instead of flowing down the table cell.
>> 
> 
> could be fixed no-wrappable content, could be a html error that a
> validator will pick up. Could be other stuff. I'll look back later today
> if I've time and you've got no more answers.

Found this issue was a problem with having the parent table width for this
table cell set to 95% - made it 100% and problem is gone - hmmm... not sure
I understand why, but at this point, not questioning the great browser gods
and godesses.

Now, my biggest issue lies in getting my bold text to show up bold on
Netscape in Windows... one final tweak and I can nearly put a wrap on this
one! So... if anyone could please shed some light, would appreciate ever so
much!

Janice





From pgerenda at visteon.com  Fri Aug 31 16:45:59 2001
From: pgerenda at visteon.com (Gerenday, Perry (P.))
Date: Fri Aug 31 16:45:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
Message-ID: <200108312141.f7VLfOw06568@dymwsm12.mailwatch.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Discovery Systems [mailto:info at discoverysystems.com]

 > > The top tier navigation items like "Calendar" should be 
 > bold right? And
 > > you have classed the TD so that stuff in it should appear 
 > bold. This all
 > > trickles down correctly in IE, but not so in Netscape. I 
 > think you'll
 > > need to class the A so that it too is explicitly bold.
 > Tried that - no difference.
 > 
 > Note that my headlines are also defined as 'bold' but this 
 > attribute is not displaying - on Windows - in NN. There's no pseudo links

 > associated with headlines.
 
Hi Janice,

I've just recently signed onto "thelist" so I've missed the beginning of
this thread. I'm interested in taking a crack at your CSS problem, if I
might. (no promises though) Would you please repost the URL of the page you
are working on so that I can have a look at it?

Thanks,

Perry Gerenday, Visual Communications Artist
www.virtually-artistic.com



From john at neoncowboy.com  Fri Aug 31 16:48:15 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (john corry)
Date: Fri Aug 31 16:48:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP string tip...
In-Reply-To: <B7B574B6.C1BF%info@discoverysystems.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEADEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

Hi all!
Sorry for being so quiet lately, I've been busy for the last couple month or
so a) preparing to travel, b) traveling and c) making up for work I missed
while traveling :) It was pretty fun though, we got to go to Maria's in
Santa Fe for the best margarita's and combination plate in the world.

So I just solved a problem I've been turning over in my head for awhile and
thought I'd share my solution as a...

<tip type="php string to paragraph function">
Got a big wad of text from a database you want to turn into multiple
paragraphs? I do. MySQL stores the line breaks, but you lose them when you
convert it back to a string variable in your script. So, I wrote this handy
little function:

// make_p(string, $class="string")
/* takes a string and stuffs it into <p></p> tags, and also replaces all
carriage returns (chr(13)) with </p><p> tags. So you wind up with your
string neatly broken into paragraphs. Assign a class attribute to the
resulting <p>'s with the optional second argument, $class */

function make_p($string, $class=""){
if (isset($class)){
$p = "<p class = \"$class\">"}
else{
$p = "<p>";
}
 $string = str_replace( chr(13) , "</p>$p" , $string );
 $string = $p. $string. "</p>\n";
 return $string;
}
</tip>

Thanks :)
John Corry




From janice at discoverysystems.com  Fri Aug 31 17:14:52 2001
From: janice at discoverysystems.com (JTocher)
Date: Fri Aug 31 17:14:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
In-Reply-To: <200108312141.f7VLfOw06568@dymwsm12.mailwatch.com>
Message-ID: <B7B58397.C1DA%janice@discoverysystems.com>

> I've just recently signed onto "thelist" so I've missed the beginning of
> this thread. I'm interested in taking a crack at your CSS problem, if I
> might. (no promises though) Would you please repost the URL of the page you
> are working on so that I can have a look at it?

Glad to, Perry...

here 'tis

http://glenwood.rasin.com/

Note that this is a cold fusion site set up for client content management -
hence the 'greeked out' content...

Thanks much!
Janice





From jcrawford at avencom.com  Fri Aug 31 17:24:17 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Fri Aug 31 17:24:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments (was: PHP string tip...)
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEADEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <3B900D10.42E6603B@avencom.com>

Hi john -- 

You wrote:

<many snips>
> function make_p($string, $class=""){
> if (isset($class)){
> $p = "<p class = \"$class\">"}
> else{
> $p = "<p>";
> }
>  $string = str_replace( chr(13) , "</p>$p" , $string );
>  $string = $p. $string. "</p>\n";
>  return $string;
> }
> </tip>

So *this* is the way to make arguments optional in PHP? This is
something that has bothered me for a while - how to make a function with
optional arguments.

A simple example would be my tr() function:

Now I have two functions:

function tr() { echo "<TR VALIGN=\"top\">\n"; };

and

function tr_color($c) { echo "<TR VALIGN=\"top\" bgcolor=\"$c\">\n"; };

So could I combine these somehow by making $c an optional argument?

function tr($c="") {
  echo "<TR VALIGN=\"top\"";
  if(isset($c))echo " bgcolor=\"$c\"";
  echo ">\n";
 };

Or is there a better way?

And how would I make a function with an arbitrary number of arguments?
like in JavaScript where you can access a functioname.arguments[] array.

Any help appreciated!

	Joe
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From pgerenda at visteon.com  Fri Aug 31 17:56:21 2001
From: pgerenda at visteon.com (Gerenday, Perry (P.))
Date: Fri Aug 31 17:56:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] repost: Site display in Netscape - help...
Message-ID: <200108312251.f7VMpfp31650@dymwsm10.mailwatch.com>

Janice,

Sorry, I've run out of time to look at this any further, however, here is
what I see so far:

As I understand it, anchors should be written this way - a.lnavbg:link {...

also NN wants to see font-size and font-family before it will bold anything.
Include as much info as you can in your CSS for NN.

a.lnavbg:link {
  color:#ffffff;
  font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, sans-serif;
  font-size:9pt;
  font-weight:bold;
  text-decoration:none;}

a.lnavbg:visited {
  color:#ffffff;
  font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, sans-serif;
  font-size:9pt;
  font-weight:bold;
  text-decoration:none;}

a.lnavbg:hover {color:#ffffff;
  font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, sans-serif;
  font-size:9pt;
  font-weight:bold;
  text-decoration:underline;}

a.lnavbg:active {color:#ffffff;
  font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, sans-serif;
  font-size:9pt;
  font-weight:bold;
  text-decoration:none;}


<!-- Move move the class to the anchor tag -->
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="120" >
 <tr>
  <td align="left">
   <p><br>
	<a class="lnavbg"
href="/default.cfm?TargetSchoolMenuID=16&FromLevel=1">
     About Glenwood</a></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

HTH

Perry Gerenday, Visual Communications Artist
www.virtually-artistic.com



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 31 18:00:54 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Aug 31 18:00:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments (was: PHP string tip...)
In-Reply-To: <3B900D10.42E6603B@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELOEJAJCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

joe,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Joe Crawford
>
> And how would I make a function with an arbitrary
> number of arguments?  like in JavaScript where you
> can access a functioname.arguments[] array.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not a php guru by any means, but this is how i'd do it:

function myFunction($arguments)
{
  // loop stuff and other expressions
}

then, create an array and pass that array to the function (dunno if i have
the syntax right for php).

$myArray = ['arg 1', 'arg 2', 'arg 3', 'arg 4'];

$myFunction($myArray);

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From ray at opengrid.com  Fri Aug 31 18:14:51 2001
From: ray at opengrid.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Aug 31 18:14:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments (was: PHP string tip
	...)
Message-ID: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FFC2@directmail.opengrid.com>

Hmmm.  The last project I worked on had something like this (in an in-house
language very similar to PHP).  I'm not sure what the syntax for the loop
was like, but here's how it acted.  It was for building the query string
after the ? un system URLs.  It's more or less the same as Jeff's example,
except that the array is inside the function instead of outside.

Variables were all passes in as a comma delimited string, as such:

	<?
	// Set from the original URL or session
	$sessionid = "465432168";
	$subsection = "foo";
	?>
	.....
	<a href="/URL<? qstring("page,one,subsection," . $subsection);
?>">Link</a>

So the funcion was expectign just one argument, but would then split that at
the commas and deal with the variables from there.

	<?
	function qstring($args) {
		print("?sessionid=" . $sessionid);
		// Split $args into an array.
			// Loop through the arguments two at a time, pairing

			// them off as query string arguments.
			print("&" . $argOdd . "=" . $argEven);
	}
	?>

So the above link would end up looking like this on output:

	<a href="/URL?sessionid=465432168&page=one&subsection=foo">Link</a>


Hope that helps...


--ray



From ray at opengrid.com  Fri Aug 31 18:44:42 2001
From: ray at opengrid.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Aug 31 18:44:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Professional Philosopy
Message-ID: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FFC5@directmail.opengrid.com>

> I sure would like to know about your own, personal work philosophy. 

And kudos to you for your curiosity!  This has been one of the most
fascinating threads I've read yet.



> Why do you do what you do?  What's important about that?

I got into web development simultaneously by accident and because it was
seemingly unavoidable.  Having been conditioned from a very young age
(primarily though Legos and Tertis) to enjoy the art of building new things
and solving complex puzzles, the mindset of an engineer came to me pretty
easily.  And having studied architecture (in the pre-AutoCad days), English,
and psychology prepped me pretty well in the areas of thinking for the long
term on projects, communicating my ideas effectively, and taking into
account the way users think and react.

But when I finished my AA degree in 1996 and realized I needed to get a job
and save some money if I wanted to go back for a Bachelors, I had very
little experience with computer, had never surfed the web, and had never
even sent an email before.  Luckily, I happened to stumble into a job
working customer service for a startup company no one had ever heard of at
the time: WebTV.

It was those first few months at WebTV that made me fall head over heals in
love with the internet.  Every single day I was talking to dozens and dozens
of people (most of whom were way over the average age of internet users)
whose lives were being seriously changed for the better by this silly little
product and its ability to connect them simply and effectively to the
internet.  $300 phone bills to family and lovers  on other coasts and over
seas were being replaced by daily emails, pictures of new babies were being
shared through user-made web sites (you'd be surprised how many 70+ year old
users have their own web sites!), and people in remote locations who would
otherwise have been quite lonely were now finding lots of friends with
similar interests in newsgroups and chat rooms.  I was hooked!!

As the company started to outsource their customer service agents, I became
more and more aware of how my earlier architectural skills might be
applicable to web development, so I picked up Laura Lemay's "Teach Yourself
HTML" book and before I knew it I was maintaining two internal intranets, an
extranet for each outsourcer, and a few sites for friends.  The larger the
sites got, the more I wanted to automate the repetitive parts, so ASP and
(especially) PHP became my passions.

So the basic answer is that I do what I do because I love the thrill of
making an idea into a reality and bringing something new into the world.
But more than that, I thrive on building things that will actually make a
difference in people's lives!

At my current post, for example, we're building something that's pretty
cool, but will make zero difference in most people's lives.  So while I get
some small satisfaction out of it, I'd jump at the chance to go back to
building things that actually make a difference again.  *sigh*  But that's
another issue all together...



> What are the values that you reach for? 

Since I got my start on the customer service end of things, my driving
passions in building web apps are to make things as simple and intuitive as
possible for a user to use (so they don't have to bother me with
calls/emails) and to make the thing as stable and expandable as possible (so
tech writers and QA folk don't have to bang their heads against the wall
trying to figure out why some wacky error message is popping up, or a fellow
engineer threaten physical harm because they can't read my code enough to
fix that funky error message).

I also have a bizarre sense of mortality in my work ethic.  The way I see
it, I'm always going to be learning and growing throughout my career, until
I die.  So that means I'm going to be leaving a lot of projects behind for
other people to maintain, as I move from stage to stage.  And as I've
learned in the process of maintaining my friend Jos Claerbout's WebScissors
tool since he died, that can be incredibly difficult if the project is
poorly commented or haphazardly built.  So I'm always trying to cover my
tracks with documentation and thorough comments, while consistently
attempting to automate my current position out of existence so I can move on
to something more interesting and challenging on the horizon.

Lately, I have been getting more and more into the whole open source
concept, and have begun to realize that many of these principles apply even
more to that arena, since other people *will* be sifting through your code
on a regular basis.  So don't be surprised to see the "Ethos Web Publisher"
project showing up on SourceForge some time in the coming year (oh what I
wouldn't give for a job that would let me work on open source stuff at
work!).



> How do you measure whether you've fulfilled [those values] or not? 

When people who take over my old projects hardly ever have to call me with
questions on what the hell my code means, I know I've fulfilled my
documentation/commenting goals.

When tools I've built get 40,000 users/month and less than a dozen a month
have to send help emails (and those usually beginners who don't understand
the basics), I know my efficient code goals have been met.

But more than anything, my fulfillment comes from waking up in the morning
and looking forward to going to work instead of dreading it like I used to.
As anyone who's read Randy Komisar's "The Monk and the Riddle" will
understand, it's the journey that's the important thing, not the
destination.

...Although I have to admit that I sometimes fantasize about getting out of
the web dev business and getting a warehouse job.  I may have a lot more fun
at work in this industry, but I was in *much* better physical shape when I
was lugging boxes around in the college bookstore...  :)



> Who are mentors or peers for whom you have a great respect, and why?

Laura Lemay has to get first props here, since the majority of my base
knowledge came from her "Teach Yourself HTML" book.

Jeff Allen and Kevin Fox get *huge* tips of the hat, not only for being
kick-ass hackers, but also for having the patience to explain complex
concepts in simple terms to those of us who wanted to learn.

Andy McFadden's "Greater Scroll of Dialing Wisdom" is the document that I've
tried to emulate in all of my documentation since.  It's a 50+ page document
that explains how a WebTV unit connects to the internet and to the service,
that *doesn't* put you to sleep (and actually makes you laugh occasionally).
Very well done!

And, of course, my current virtual mentor is Eric Steven Raymond, through
his open source and hacker documents feeding the fire of my transition into
an open source developer.



--ray




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Aug 31 18:47:18 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Aug 31 18:47:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS: Fuzzy Relatives.
Message-ID: <p05001912b7b5d0649299@[24.43.66.191]>

Thanks for the site feedback that every one offered, I took it to 
heart. In doing so I promptly remembered why I had used fixed size 
fonts.

Ems are fuzzy. An em should be the perfectly scalable unit for a 
font-size, yet I find that it has an even greater variance across 
browsers and platforms than points.

As most browsers attempt to figure out how many px high and wide a 
character should be, they go into an anti-aliasing frenzy that 
renders the type in an almost illegible manner.

What have you found to be the most successful manner of scaling 
font-sizes using CSS?
-- 


A bucket full of water does not splash about,
             only a bucket half-full splashes.
                                           -- Malayan Proverb.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From tss24 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 31 19:04:10 2001
From: tss24 at cornell.edu (ted serbinski)
Date: Fri Aug 31 19:04:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS: Fuzzy Relatives.
In-Reply-To: <p05001912b7b5d0649299@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <MJEPLLIFCMGCNPLGKOHHGEFECBAA.tss24@cornell.edu>

> What have you found to be the most successful manner of scaling
> font-sizes using CSS?

pixels.

if you specify a font say, 12 px high, both windows and mac (and i'm
assuming unix) will display the font the same size in each browser. using 12
pt, on a windows this will look normal, but on a mac, this will look really
small, causing problems for your mac users.

now if all browsers support px, i do not know. but it does seem to work the
best with the fewest problems being more compatible cross-platform.

ted




From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Fri Aug 31 19:38:04 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Fri Aug 31 19:38:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments
In-Reply-To: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FFC2@directmail.opengrid.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0109010125360.15487-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

Okay so that's input sussed but what about multiple output
variables? Here's an easy way to return multiple variables straight from
php.net:

<tip type="PHP functions" author="Simon Coggins">

Q. How do I return multiple values from a function?

A. You can't return multiple values from a function, but similar results
   can be obtained by returning a list. For example:

function small_numbers()
{
    return array (0, 1, 2);
}

list ($zero, $one, $two) = small_numbers();
 

You'll end up with $zero = 0, $one = 1 and $two = 2.

An alternative solution is to create an array within the function and
return the full array:

function small_numbers()
{
	$numbers = array(0, 1, 2);
	return $numbers;
}

$results = small_numbers();

This time you'll end up with $results[0] = 0, $results[1] = 1 and
$results[2] = 2.

</tip>


Simon





From rick at techno-weenie.com  Fri Aug 31 20:22:53 2001
From: rick at techno-weenie.com (rick)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:22:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP script design tips
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEADEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com> <3B900D10.42E6603B@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <002801c13283$d6db85e0$0400a8c0@spacemonkey>

I've been playing with PHP for almost a year now, but I have no formal
programming training.  So, I'm getting to the point where I understand how
most of the PHP functions work and how to accomplish most common tasks.  But
I find that I'm having problem with fundamental programming issues.  Like:
I want to modularize my code and all, but then I'm left with tons of smaller
files, and each script call is including maybe 3-5 extra libraries.

Also, my "admin" portion for my weblogging script is all ran from a central
index.php file.  It parses a query string, loads the required library, then
displays the page.  Is this a bad way to do things?

I have a lot of little script design issues like this I'd like some advice
on, and I'm sure some of you have a lot more experience + knowledge.  I'd
appreciate any input...

rick
http://techno-weenie.com




From gnarly at gmx.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 20:39:48 2001
From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:39:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
Message-ID: <005101c13286$1b9635c0$9865fea9@uridium>

Hi,

I've spent the evening learning the basics of SSIs from various tutorials.
(No single tutorial was particularly good, so I took the best bits from
several of them).

Now, can anybody reccomend a good online SSI reference?

Thanks in advance,

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Fri Aug 31 20:40:10 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:40:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments (was: PHP string
	tip...)
In-Reply-To: <3B900D10.42E6603B@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <B7B58976.749F%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Joe Crawford <jcrawford at avencom.com> typed:

> So *this* is the way to make arguments optional in PHP? This is
> something that has bothered me for a while - how to make a function with
> optional arguments.

To split hairs a bit, this method of calling a function doesn't make the
argument optional; it gives it a default value if none is passed.

> And how would I make a function with an arbitrary number of arguments?
> like in JavaScript where you can access a functioname.arguments[] array.

You can do this by using func_num_args(), func_get_arg(), and
func_get_args().

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Aug 31 20:41:49 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:41:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Critique?
In-Reply-To: <200108311541.f7VFfdE21715@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200108311541.f7VFfdE21715@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05001914b7b5ebdf083e@[24.43.66.191]>

>  Don't get me wrong, your logo is your identity, and if
>  this says "you" or what you want it to say about you,
>  then please leave it alone, because it is a pretty nice
>  logo. I think you may find more success by changing that
>  pastel/brick color to something with more presence say
>  an orange-red, a solid red, or even a lighter shade of
>  orange.

I agree that it might be a good idea to play withe the colours. The 
thing to remember is that the colours were chosen by someone who is 
colour blind. I think I'll chat up a couple o'designer buddies with 
good colour vision.

That was all great feedback, thanks!
-- 


A bucket full of water does not splash about,
             only a bucket half-full splashes.
                                           -- Malayan Proverb.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Fri Aug 31 20:48:50 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:48:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] functions in PHP and arguments (was: PHP string tip
	...)
In-Reply-To: <897D2906DD5DD411B17500B0D03D9FB2C6FFC2@directmail.opengrid.com>
Message-ID: <B7B58B84.74A5%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Ray Hill <ray at opengrid.com> typed:

> Variables were all passed in as a comma delimited string, as such:

Hmm. Yes, you can do it that way, but it's a lot of extra work, when PHP
already has functions built in to handle variable arguments. Check out
func_num_args() and the other function handling functions in the PHP manual;
much simpler than parsing a delimited string, and probably faster too.

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From webdesign1 at irubin.com  Fri Aug 31 20:55:04 2001
From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin)
Date: Fri Aug 31 20:55:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Map of US image
Message-ID: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEHLCNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>

Hello,

I am looking for an image of a US map (example:
http://www.gorp.com/gorp/location/us/us.htm).

I am planning on using the map for easier access to state data which is part
of the site.

Any help will be appreciated.

Roee Rubin
Irubin Consulting
roee at irubin.com
http://www.irubin.com/





From jerjer at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 21:17:16 2001
From: jerjer at earthlink.net (Jer)
Date: Fri Aug 31 21:17:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Map of US image
References: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEHLCNAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <06d401c1328b$88599620$67f5c23f@pacbell.net>

Not certain of any copyright issues:
http://208.56.43.53/application.html
Unique Books on New ID,
Revenge, Love, etc.
http://www.UndercoverPress.com

> I am looking for an image of a US map (example:
> http://www.gorp.com/gorp/location/us/us.htm).





From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Fri Aug 31 21:21:58 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Fri Aug 31 21:21:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
In-Reply-To: <005101c13286$1b9635c0$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831191426.03943010@mail.midtown.net>

At 06:33 PM 08/31/2001, Olly wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've spent the evening learning the basics of SSIs from various tutorials.
>(No single tutorial was particularly good, so I took the best bits from
>several of them).
>
>Now, can anybody reccomend a good online SSI reference?

Olly,

Maybe you've already checked these out, but I have an annotated listing at 
WebsiteTips.com. Maybe that will help a bit.

SSI
http://www.websitetips.com/ssi/

HTH.

Warmly,
Shirley

--
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser1 at skdesigns.com
Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From feed at chicken3.com  Fri Aug 31 21:47:47 2001
From: feed at chicken3.com (Eric Langlitz)
Date: Fri Aug 31 21:47:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Map of US image
Message-ID: <200109010247.f812lkE31857@leo.evolt.org>

Hi Roee.  I have a Freehand 9 drawing of a US map that I used about a year
ago.  If you would like to get an idea of what it looks like go to:

http://www.nwmi.com/system.html

click the "View National Map" link underneath the tri state map to get a
better view of the map.

If this is what you are looking for and can use it, let me know.  I can
deliver it in different formats (PhotoShop, Freehand, Illustrator, PDF, EPS,
JPG, etc).

Glad to help!


--
Eric Langlitz
Principal
Chicken3
3409 NE 62nd Ave #164
Vancouver, WA 98661
360.906.7195
feed at chicken3.com

----------
>From: "Roee Rubin" <webdesign1 at irubin.com>
>To: "Thelist" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Map of US image
>Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001, 6:56 PM
>

> Hello,
>
> I am looking for an image of a US map (example:
> http://www.gorp.com/gorp/location/us/us.htm).
>
> I am planning on using the map for easier access to state data which is part
> of the site.
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Roee Rubin
> Irubin Consulting
> roee at irubin.com
> http://www.irubin.com/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 



From bruce at heerssen.com  Fri Aug 31 22:34:16 2001
From: bruce at heerssen.com (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri Aug 31 22:34:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] browser resizer app
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108301538030.27128-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B90469B.4060601@heerssen.com>

Simon Coggins wrote:

>> Hey all, what's a good browser resizer app for Windows?  I need something
>> that will snap a browser to fixed screen widths for development.
>> 
>> I want one that does both IE and netscape.
> 
> 
> For a quick, easy (and free!) solution there are some window resizing
> bookmarklets available on these pages:

Just type in this line in the location bar of any javascript enabled 
browser:

javascript:ResizeTo(800,600);

That is esentially what the bookmarklets do. To add one, create a 
bookmark and then change it's url to the previous line. It might help to 
change it's name also.




From joe at artlung.com  Sat Sep  1 00:25:27 2001
From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Sat Sep  1 00:25:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
In-Reply-To: <005101c13286$1b9635c0$9865fea9@uridium>
Message-ID: <B7B5BE41.5368%joe@artlung.com>

Olly Hodgson wrote:

> I've spent the evening learning the basics of SSIs from various tutorials.
> (No single tutorial was particularly good, so I took the best bits from
> several of them).
> 
> Now, can anybody reccomend a good online SSI reference?

An oldie but a goodie, from bignosebird:
http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml

I always think of the "shtml" extension as an example of "eating their own
dog food." :-)

Seriously though, it's a good set of docs.

    - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 03:02:03 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep  1 03:02:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
Message-ID: <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Joe Crawford wrote on 1/9/01 6:20 am

>http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml
>
>I always think of the "shtml" extension as an example of "eating their own
>dog food." :-)

Yup, and doing so obviously, whereas if your whole site is
based on SSIs and is on Apache (mine is), you can set
the server to parse .html extensions with .htaccess.

If you don't do that, you'll be editing .htaccess
anyway to ensure that http://www.domain.com/
looks for http://www.domain.com/index.shtml
as well as/rather than index.html

At some point, I'll document a bunch of SSI/XSSI stuff
I use in my site as an evolt tutorial.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 03:06:17 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep  1 03:06:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS: Fuzzy Relatives.
Message-ID: <087d10202080191PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>

ted serbinski wrote on 1/9/01 12:59 am

>> What have you found to be the most successful manner of scaling
>> font-sizes using CSS?
>
>pixels.

>
>now if all browsers support px, i do not know. but it does seem to work the
>best with the fewest problems being more compatible cross-platform.

Pixels are the most supported measurement for onscreen layout, but
you'll need to use pt for printers (some printers interpret '10 px'
over-literally, and text 1/60 of an inch high on a 600dpi printer
is a bit small to read).

The canonical explanation:
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/fear4/

To summarise that approach, you have 2 CSS sizing choices:
>1. Use pixels (not points, not ems, not percentages, not keywords) to 
>specify your font sizes. Or: 
>
>2.	Use nothing. Do not specify font sizes at all, and let the browser's 
>stylistic defaults and the visitor's preferences take care of the relative 
>size relationships. 

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep  1 09:23:07 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep  1 09:23:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
Message-ID: <01c132f0$f1cbf520$ad4a149a@rudy>

> http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml
>
> I always think of the "shtml" extension as an example
> of "eating their own dog food." :-)

hi joe

at first i thought you had mixed your metaphors   ;o)

i did a google search just to reassure myself
that "eating your own dog food" indeed means
believing in your own product enough to use it yourself
(see
http://weblogs.deanza.fhda.edu:81/TechTalk/2000/06/06/eatingYourOwnDogFood)

obviously, as martin also noted, bignosebird do


anyhow, i just wanted to mention the following site,
a pretty comprehensive SSI reference --

  http://tech.irt.org/articles/js166/index.htm


rudy




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 09:24:47 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sat Sep  1 09:24:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP script design tips (long)
In-Reply-To: <002801c13283$d6db85e0$0400a8c0@spacemonkey>
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEADEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
	<3B900D10.42E6603B@avencom.com>
	<002801c13283$d6db85e0$0400a8c0@spacemonkey>
Message-ID: <20010901152020.0da1739a.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:17:16 -0700, "rick" <rick at techno-weenie.com>
wrote:

(this ended up a lot longer than I meant... sorry!)

> I've been playing with PHP for almost a year now, but I have no formal
> programming training.  

Pah... proper training is for wimps, I just let the force be my guide.

> So, I'm getting to the point where I understand
> how most of the PHP functions work and how to accomplish most common
> tasks.  But I find that I'm having problem with fundamental 
> programming issues. 

Yeah.. I have those all the time *:)

One thing I've found that helps is having a trawl through the code of
other PHP projects that are out there (man I love open source). Look at
how they structure their code, how they modularize, keep order, stop
stuff getting broken.

Especially in large projects where there's more than one person hacking
on the code, having a logical structure is a must.

A couple that are worth having a look at:

http://www.theexchangeproject.org
http://www.geeklog.org (hi john!)

> I have a lot of little script design issues like this I'd like some
> advice on, and I'm sure some of you have a lot more experience +
> knowledge. I'd appreciate any input...

Well, not sure whether this is what you're looking for, but this is how
I generally structure my PHP development.

When I'm scoping out the project and getting some ideas on paper things
I think about like...

What does the system need to know? Where does it get it's info from (DB,
flat files, external feed etc), what variables will it expect? This
gives me an idea of what I'm going to to define up front.

How will it achieve it's purpose? What does it need to do? This gives me
a rough outline of what functions I'll need. Things like form
processing, content retrieval, content updates etc.

As for the actual structure, out side of the document root I'll have a
file that sets up all the variables I'm going to need. That'll have
stuff like:

define('HTTP_SERVER', 'http://polytechnic.co.uk');
define('DOCUMENT_ROOT','/var/www/polytechnic');
define('ARE_WE_COOL_OR_WHAT', 1);

so in the logic of the pages I can do lots of conditionalizing and
including without having to define stuff each time. I'll also put all
database functions in one file, basically abstract out which database
I'm using, so I can move the whole thing easily.

This just means that instead of having mysql_fetch_array() all over the
place, I'll redefine to :

function db_fetch_array($qhandle) {
	return @mysql_fetch_array($qhandle);
}

I only have to change one file then, for instance, if I moved to
Postgresql.

Then inside the document root, I'll put a directory with all my included
functions. I might have inc/shopping_cart.php that contains all the
shopping cart logic, inc/forms.php that has the form generation stuff.

I wouldn't be too worried about having lots of includes, this just means
that you know exactly where you're starting from, and the code in each
page can concentrate on doing just whats it's supposed to do.

Plus, when you start a new project, just copy your includes across and
edit them, voila, lovely sexy new base to start from *:)

This rambled a little bit.. sorry about that, hope it helped though.

G "not even gonna touch the professional philosophy thread.. we'd be
here all week!".

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 09:24:47 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sat Sep  1 09:24:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Generating PDFs in CGI
In-Reply-To: <3B8F8B30.31817.18CBB217@localhost>
References: <3B8F8B30.31817.18CBB217@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010901151404.555fa6b6.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:03:44 -0400, "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>
wrote:

> Is generating PDFs *directly* such a bear that I ought to take this
> approach?  (FWIW, I was planning to write this in C, but doing it in
> PERL is not a problem if there is a good reason.)

deke, check out HTMLDoc:

http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/

It's a *nix/Win32 program (GPL'd) that can generate PDF's or PS from
HTML source files. You can use it server side, commandline or through a
GUI. We've just finished developing some documentation for a client with
it, and it was an absoulte breeze.

G.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/



From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 09:51:27 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep  1 09:51:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
Message-ID: <073e81047140191PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk>

rudy wrote on 1/9/01 3:18 pm

>> http://www.bignosebird.com/ssi.shtml
>>
>> I always think of the "shtml" extension as an example
>> of "eating their own dog food." :-)
>
>hi joe
>
>at first i thought you had mixed your metaphors   ;o)
>
>i did a google search just to reassure myself
>that "eating your own dog food" indeed means
>believing in your own product enough to use it yourself
>(see
>http://weblogs.deanza.fhda.edu:81/TechTalk/2000/06/06/eatingYourOwnDogFood)

Also
http://evolt.org/article/Buzzword_Bingo/25/5281/index.html

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From amy at farallon.com  Sat Sep  1 10:03:15 2001
From: amy at farallon.com (Amy Roberts)
Date: Sat Sep  1 10:03:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need Javascript help with a pop-up window
Message-ID: <5DB15B254A6AD511B73D0003473BE5F4A329FD@exch-nt.proxim.com>


I'm developing a private site for deaf kids learning to chat with other
kids. One of its features is a pop-up window containing definitions of
unfamiliar words. The window is positioned at the far right of the
screen and opens when the user clicks on a word. Although it has a close
window link, I believe the user is less inclined to use it, so I need to
know how to bring the open window to the front when the next word is
clicked on that uses the same link?

This is the code I am using in the head:

function openWindow() {
  popupWin = window.open('../info/words_tips.html', 'remote',
'resizable,width=300,height=600,left=700,top=0')

And for each word:
<a href="javascript:openWindow();online">word</a>

I will appreciate advice on how to make the pop-up window, if it's
already open, come to the front.

Thanks!
Amy





From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sat Sep  1 10:24:38 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sat Sep  1 10:24:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need Javascript help with a pop-up window
References: <5DB15B254A6AD511B73D0003473BE5F4A329FD@exch-nt.proxim.com>
Message-ID: <3B90FCA8.236F58EE@webtuitive.com>

Amy Roberts wrote:

> I need to
> know how to bring the open window to the front when the next word is
> clicked on that uses the same link?
> 
> This is the code I am using in the head:
> 
> function openWindow() {
>   popupWin = window.open('../info/words_tips.html', 'remote',
> 'resizable,width=300,height=600,left=700,top=0')

Inside the function, after the above line, add: 

	popupWin.focus();

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 11:11:42 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sat Sep  1 11:11:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip: Netscape and Mozilla Sidebar resource.
Message-ID: <20010901170704.419e5ce9.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

<tip type="Netscape and Mozilla Sidebar resource" author="Garrett
Coakley">

Eric Meyer (http://www.meyerweb.com/) has published two very handy
Sidebars tabs for Netscape and Mozilla. One gives you access to all the
CSS2 properties, values, and contents whilst the other does the same for
the HTML4.01 spec:
 
http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/sidebar/index.html

It's also worth checking out the My Sidebar directory for lots of other
cool stuff:

http://channel.netscape.com/sidebar/sbd/index.tmpl

</tip>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 11:26:39 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Sep  1 11:26:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need Javascript help with a pop-up window
In-Reply-To: <5DB15B254A6AD511B73D0003473BE5F4A329FD@exch-nt.proxim.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELOEJPJCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

amy,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Amy Roberts
>
> [...] I need to know how to bring the open window to
> the front when the next word is clicked on that uses
> the same link
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

simple, in your openWindow() function, check that the browser supports the
focus() method of the window object (not all do), and if so focus the new
window.

function openWindow()
{
  var href = '../info/words_tips.html';
  var target = 'remote';
  var features = 'resizable,width=300,height=600,left=700,top=0';
  popupWin = window.open(href, target, features);
  if(popupWin.focus) popupWin.focus();
}

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> <a href="javascript:openWindow();online">word</a>
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

what's the purpose of the variable after calling the openWindow() function?

also, fwiw, you've made your information unnecessarily inaccessible to
non-js users.  i'd restructure the link to give everyone access to the
information.

start by changing the function alittle so you can pass the path of the
document and target name of the window.

function openWindow(href, target)
{
  var features = 'resizable,width=300,height=600,left=700,top=0';
  popupWin = window.open(href, target, features);
  if(popupWin.focus) popupWin.focus();
}

now, change your links so they use the onclick event handler to call the
openWindow() function.  include href and target attributes with the values
originally from the function.

<a
 href="../info/words_tips.html"
 target="remote"
 onClick="openWindow(this.href, this.target); return false"
>word</a>

non-js users will get the information in a regular new window.  js-enabled
users will get it in a javascript popup.

here's some reading if you don't understand what the "return false"
statement accomplishes in the onclick event handler:

JavaScript: The Point of No Return?!
http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/8869/

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From genghis at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 12:04:44 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Sat Sep  1 12:04:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Generating PDFs in CGI
In-Reply-To: <3B8F8B30.31817.18CBB217@localhost>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNKENBCDAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of deke 
> Sent: 31 August 2001 18:04
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Generating PDFs in CGI
> 
> I want to generate custom documents for users to print. 
> 
> I've noticed that many applications generate PostScript and then
> use Ghostscript (or Distiller) to convert the file to PDF. 
> 
> Is generating PDFs *directly* such a bear that I ought to take this
> approach?  (FWIW, I was planning to write this in C, but doing it in
> PERL is not a problem if there is a good reason.)

One good reason would be that someone's already done it for you :-)

There's a PDF module on CPAN

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------  



From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep  1 14:37:53 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep  1 14:37:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip: Netscape and Mozilla Sidebar resource.
Message-ID: <01c1331c$a8592580$184b149a@rudy>

> It's also worth checking out the My Sidebar directory
> for lots of other cool stuff:
>
> http://channel.netscape.com/sidebar/sbd/index.tmpl

thanks garrett, but this page did not answer the most important question i
have -- how to turn off the frickin sidebar

yeah, i know F9 minimizes it, but how do i deepsix it altogether?  i never
even asked for the damned thing, but every time i do a google search, the
search results come up in the sidebar, no matter how many times i hit F9
the damn sidebar keeps popping up...   and this doesn't happen with other
search engines, so there has to be some hanky-panky going on with google...

note it's not actually netscape 6 that's giving me this problem (although i
expect i would have it there too), i'm running 0.9.3 mozilla

and Help is no use whatsoever -- mozilla has to have the shittiest help
system i've ever run across -- under the S in the Index you will find
neither Search nor Sidebar

grumble

otherwise, it's a fine browser, and now that it has quick-launch, it's
pretty fast, too

rudy




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep  1 14:56:34 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep  1 14:56:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
Message-ID: <01c1331f$882344a0$184b149a@rudy>

> Later, built a 'grand scheme' core db for other ongoing
> purposes, which also included employee info. 

hi joel

sounds like a "system of record" concept

great idea

very au courant in data warehousing

> PO app needs to reference the employee table in the 
> new db now, but foreign keys from two tables point to
> the original employee table.

you *could* maintain two employee tables, but i would recommend against it

> I'm thinking my only solution is to remove said constraints, 
> move the tables to the new db, then create new constraints.

may i suggest a variation

1. incorporate data from the original table into the "grand scheme" one
2. remove constraints
3. create new constraints
4. drop original table


rudy




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep  1 15:15:39 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep  1 15:15:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip: Netscape and Mozilla Sidebar resource.
Message-ID: <01c13322$39e68d80$184b149a@rudy>

i am also a member in good standing of the answer-your-own-post club

> ... every time i do a google search, the search results come up
> in the sidebar, no matter how many times i hit F9 the damn sidebar
> keeps popping up...

Edit | Preferences, Navigator, Internet Search

for some reason i never thought to look there, perhaps because one of the
first things i did was customize my toolbar to get rid of the stupid Search
button that netscape thinks i need


<tip type="advanced search">

go to your favourite search engine and navigate your way to the "advanced
search" page (if you can't find it, try searching for it... JUST
KIDDING!! -- if your favourite search engine doesn't have an advanced
search page, try google's at http://www.google.com/advanced_search)

then drag and drop the url into your Links bar or Personal Folder or simply
bookmark it

the more you search, the more you realize that

     ~ with all of the words  _____
     ~ with the exact phrase  _____
     ~ with any of the words  _____
     ~ without the words  _____

are conditions that you will probably use more often than not

</tip>


rudy




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 15:44:46 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sat Sep  1 15:44:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip: Netscape and Mozilla Sidebar resource.
In-Reply-To: <01c13322$39e68d80$184b149a@rudy>
References: <01c13322$39e68d80$184b149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <20010901213746.25609@polytechnic.co.uk>

On Sat, Sep 1, 2001, rudy said:

>i am also a member in good standing of the answer-your-own-post club
>
>> ... every time i do a google search, the search results come up
>> in the sidebar, no matter how many times i hit F9 the damn sidebar
>> keeps popping up...
>
>Edit | Preferences, Navigator, Internet Search

I think you can also make it vanish in the view -> toolbars menu as well.
Not sure right now as I'm on my OSX[1] machine and haven't got round to
installing it yet. But there's definately an option up there somewhere.

G.

[1] And what a fantastic OS it's turning out to be. Just finished
mirroring my Linux dev enviroment on it today. Probably helped that I
used to play around on NeXT machines. Forgot how handy NetInfo is.



-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk




From framar at interlog.com  Sat Sep  1 16:32:10 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Sat Sep  1 16:32:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netcape  6.1 Fails to load pages
Message-ID: <p05001900b7b702cc83db@[24.43.66.191]>

Argh!!

I'm more than willing to use Mac Netscape 6.1, but it has a funny 
little glitch: if fails to load 2 out of three pages. Has anyone else 
here noticed this, or found a work-around?
-- 


A bucket full of water does not splash about,
             only a bucket half-full splashes.
                                           -- Malayan Proverb.

Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Sep  1 17:21:20 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Sat Sep  1 17:21:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
In-Reply-To: <01c1331f$882344a0$184b149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <000001c13333$e03e6a20$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

For the record, as I got into it last night, ended up doing exactly what you
suggest. Toyed (briefly) with the idea of duplicate employee tables, but my
job is to make things easier, not more complicated.

Finished it up last night, tested primary functions, and all is well now.
Not nearly the huge task I expected (except for an hour lost to
troubleshooting a COM object because the old db called the table 'employee'
and the new one calls it 'employees' and I was looking for permissions or
other errors instead of typos.)

Thanks for the tips; helps validate that I'm not heading down the wrong path
(yet.)

Joel

<tip type="database naming conventions">
Establish naming conventions for your databases, and ensure that all
databases, fields, tables, stored procedures, etc. conform. It helps with
the portability and reusability of code and data, and is a bit of a memory
aid; when you know, for instance, that tables are always named in the
plural, you don't have to struggle to remember if it was 'employee' or
'employees' and can focus on the task rather than the minutiae.
</tip>

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 12:52 PM
To: evolt thelist
Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another
database?


> Later, built a 'grand scheme' core db for other ongoing
> purposes, which also included employee info.

hi joel

sounds like a "system of record" concept

great idea

very au courant in data warehousing

> PO app needs to reference the employee table in the
> new db now, but foreign keys from two tables point to
> the original employee table.

you *could* maintain two employee tables, but i would recommend against it

> I'm thinking my only solution is to remove said constraints,
> move the tables to the new db, then create new constraints.

may i suggest a variation

1. incorporate data from the original table into the "grand scheme" one
2. remove constraints
3. create new constraints
4. drop original table


rudy


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From krr at ix.netcom.com  Sat Sep  1 17:24:35 2001
From: krr at ix.netcom.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat Sep  1 17:24:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Object can't be accessed without an active lock??
Message-ID: <001401c13334$a34b94c0$59d6fea9@nones2s46on6ht>

I seem to have trouble with the <cflock> not being seen.
The exact error is:

Error Diagnostic Information
An error occurred while evaluating the expression:

SESSION.MovWiz = StructNew()
Error near line 45, column 13.
-----------------

Symbol SESSION.MovWiz is in a scope that contains data shared across threads
and cannot be accessed without an active lock

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of
(CFSET), occupying document position (45:7) to (45:42).


I have the session set for full read in the admin panel and the checkbox is
unchecked for single threaded...

I didn't have a problem until I changed my session variables from being
spread through out the template to reading them into normal variables and
defining them into just the one <cflock> at the top of the template. I went
thru the entire template and can't seem to find anything that is out of
place.

The template is a series of 5 <cfcase's> used to create a template wizard.

any insight appreciated

Thank you
Kevin


<!---  Total number of steps in the wizard --->

<cfset NumOfSteps = 5>


<!---  The SESSION.MovWiz struct() holds the user's entries
       as they move thru the wizard.

              First Make Sure It Exists!
--->
<cflock timeout="30"
        throwontimeout="No"
        type="READONLY"
        scope="SESSION">

  <cfif NOT IsDefined("SESSION.MovWiz")>

    <!---  If structure undefined, create / initialize it  --->
      <cfset SESSION.MovWiz = StructNew()>
    <!---  Represents current wizard step; start at one  --->
      <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.StepNum = S_MovWiz.StepNum>
    <!---
         Initialize session variables and read them into normal variables
         This will reduce the effort needed to maintain the <cflock> state
         through out the template.
    --->
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.MovieTitle = S_MovWiz.MovieTitle>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.PitchText = S_MovWiz.PitchText>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.RatingID = S_MovWiz.RatingID>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.DirectorID = S_MovWiz.DirectorID>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.ActorIDs = S_MovWiz.ActorIDs>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.StarActorID = S_MovWiz.StarActorID>

    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.StepNum" default="1">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.MovieText" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.PitchText" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.RatingID" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.DirectorID" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.ActorIDs" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.StarActorID" default=" ">


  </cfif>
</cflock>


<!---  If user just submitted MovieTitle, remember it
       Do same for the directorID, Actors and so on.
--->

  <cfif IsDefined("Form.MovieTitle")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.MovieTitle = Form.MovieTitle>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.PitchText = Form.PitchText>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.RatingID = Form.RatingID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.DirectorID")>
   <cfset S_MovWiz.DirectorID = Form.DirectorID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.ActorID")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.ActorIDs = Form.ActorID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.StarActorID")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StarActorID = Form.StarActorID>

  </cfif>

<!---  If user clicked back button, go back a step  --->
  <cfif IsDefined("Form.GoBack")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StepNum = URL.StepNum - 1>
<!---  If user clicked next button go forward one  --->
  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.GoNext")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StepNum = URL.StepNum + 1>
<!---  If user clicked "finished" button, were done  --->
  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.GoDone")>
    <cflocation URL="NewMovieCommit.cfm">
  </cfif>


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
     <title>New Movie Form Wizard</title>
</head>

<body>

<!---  Show title and current step  --->
<cfoutput>
  <b>New Movie Wizard</b><br>
  Step #S_MovWiz.StepNum# of #NumOfSteps#<br>
</cfoutput>

<!---  Data entry form which submits back to itself  --->
<cfform action="NewMovieWizard.cfm?StepNum=#S_MovWiz.StepNum#" method="POST"
enablecab="Yes">

  <!---  Display the appropriate wizard step  --->
  <cfswitch expression="#S_MovWiz.StepNum#">

    <!---  step one: movie title  --->
    <cfcase value="1">
        <!---  Show text entry field for title  --->
        What is the title of the movie?<br>
        <cfinput type="Text"
         name="MovieTitle"
         value="#S_MovWiz.MovieTitle#"
         message="Please enter your movie title"
         size="50"
         maxlength="255">

      <!---  Show text entry for short description  --->
      <p>What is the "pitch" or "one-liner" for the movie?</p>
        <cfinput type="Text"
         name="PitchText"
         value="#S_MovWiz.PitchText#"
         message="Please enter the pitch text"
         size="50"
         maxlength="100">

       <CFQUERY NAME="GetRating" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
          SELECT    RatingID, Rating
          FROM      FilmsRatings
          ORDER BY  RatingID
       </CFQUERY>

     <p>Select your movie rating?</p>
       <cfselect name="RatingID"
          size="1"
          message="Please choose one"
          query="GetRating"
          display="Rating"
          value="RatingID"
          selected="#S_MovWiz.RatingID#">
        </cfselect><br>
    </cfcase>

    <cfcase value="2">
      <!---  Get list of directors from database  --->
      <CFQUERY NAME="GetDirectors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
        SELECT
          DirectorID,
          FirstName+ ' ' +LastName AS FullName
        FROM
          Directors
        ORDER BY
          LastName
      </CFQUERY>

      <!---
              Show all directors in select list
              Pre select if user has chosen one
      --->

      Who will be directing the movie?<br>
        <cfselect name="Directors"
            size="#GetDirectors.RecordCount#"
            message="Please choose one of these directors"
            query="GetDirectors"
            value="DirectorID"
            display="FullName"
            selected="#S_MovWiz.DirectorID#"
            >
         </cfselect>
    </cfcase>

    <cfcase value="3">
      <!---  Get list of actors from database  --->
      <CFQUERY NAME="GetActors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
        SELECT  *
        FROM    Actors
        ORDER BY  NameLast
      </CFQUERY>

     What actors will be in the movie?<br>

     <!---  For each actor, display check box  --->

     <cfloop query="GetActors">

      <!---  Should check box be pre-checked  --->
      <cfset IsChecked = ListFind(S_MovWiz.ActorIDs, ActorID)>

      <!---  Check box itself  --->
      <cfinput type="Checkbox"
       name="ActorID"
       value="#ActorID#">

      <!---  actor name  --->
      <cfoutput>#NameFirst# #NameLast#</cfoutput><br>
     </cfloop>
    </cfcase>

    <!---  Step for in the wizard -- who is the star?  --->
    <cfcase value="4">

      <cfif S_MovWiz.ActorIDs EQ " ">
        Please go back to the last step and choose at least one
        actor or actress to in the movie.

      <cfelse>
        <!---  Get actors who are in the film  --->
  <CFQUERY NAME="GetActors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
          SELECT * FROM Actors
          WHERE ActorID IN (#S_MovWiz.ActorIDs#)
          ORDER BY NameLast
        </CFQUERY>

       Which one of the actors will get top billing?<br>

       <!---  For each actor, display radio button  --->
       <cfloop query="GetActors">

          <!---  should radio be pre checked  --->
          <cfset IsChecked = S_MovWiz.StarActorID EQ ActorID>

          <!---  Radio button itself  --->
          <cfinput type="Radio"
             name="StarActorID"
             value="#ActorID#"
             Checked = "#IsChecked#">

         <!---  actor name  --->
         <cfoutput>#NameFirst# #NameLast#</cfoutput><br>

       </cfloop>

      </cfif>


    </cfcase>
  </cfswitch>

  <p>
  <!---  show back button unless at first step  --->
  <cfif S_MovWiz.StepNum GT 1>
    <input type="submit" name="GoBack" value="<<< Back">
  </cfif>

  <!---
        Show next button unless at last step. If at last step
        show finish button.
  --->

  <cfif S_MovWiz.StepNum LT NumOfSteps>
    <input type="submit" name="GoNext" value="Next >>>">

  <cfelse>
    <input type="submit" name="GoDone" value="Finish">
  </cfif>
  </p>
</cfform>



</body>
</html>






From pf at cfdev.com  Sat Sep  1 17:31:52 2001
From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag)
Date: Sat Sep  1 17:31:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Object can't be accessed without an active lock??
In-Reply-To: <001401c13334$a34b94c0$59d6fea9@nones2s46on6ht>
Message-ID: <BNEHJPJGINFFDIDGAICIEEBDDGAA.pf@cfdev.com>

Kevin,

	You need to use an Exclusive lock (type=exclusive) when you write... read
only locks only lock read access... So when you have code like <cfset
session.x=3> you need type="exclusive" when you just read the value,
<cfoutput>#session.x#</cfoutput> then you need type="readonly"

_____________________________________________
Pete Freitag (pfreitag at cfdev.com)
CFDEV.COM
ColdFusion Developer Resources
http://www.cfdev.com/


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:23 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Object can't be accessed without an active lock??


I seem to have trouble with the <cflock> not being seen.
The exact error is:

Error Diagnostic Information
An error occurred while evaluating the expression:

SESSION.MovWiz = StructNew()
Error near line 45, column 13.
-----------------

Symbol SESSION.MovWiz is in a scope that contains data shared across threads
and cannot be accessed without an active lock

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of
(CFSET), occupying document position (45:7) to (45:42).


I have the session set for full read in the admin panel and the checkbox is
unchecked for single threaded...

I didn't have a problem until I changed my session variables from being
spread through out the template to reading them into normal variables and
defining them into just the one <cflock> at the top of the template. I went
thru the entire template and can't seem to find anything that is out of
place.

The template is a series of 5 <cfcase's> used to create a template wizard.

any insight appreciated

Thank you
Kevin


<!---  Total number of steps in the wizard --->

<cfset NumOfSteps = 5>


<!---  The SESSION.MovWiz struct() holds the user's entries
       as they move thru the wizard.

              First Make Sure It Exists!
--->
<cflock timeout="30"
        throwontimeout="No"
        type="READONLY"
        scope="SESSION">

  <cfif NOT IsDefined("SESSION.MovWiz")>

    <!---  If structure undefined, create / initialize it  --->
      <cfset SESSION.MovWiz = StructNew()>
    <!---  Represents current wizard step; start at one  --->
      <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.StepNum = S_MovWiz.StepNum>
    <!---
         Initialize session variables and read them into normal variables
         This will reduce the effort needed to maintain the <cflock> state
         through out the template.
    --->
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.MovieTitle = S_MovWiz.MovieTitle>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.PitchText = S_MovWiz.PitchText>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.RatingID = S_MovWiz.RatingID>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.DirectorID = S_MovWiz.DirectorID>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.ActorIDs = S_MovWiz.ActorIDs>
    <cfset SESSION.MovWiz.StarActorID = S_MovWiz.StarActorID>

    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.StepNum" default="1">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.MovieText" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.PitchText" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.RatingID" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.DirectorID" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.ActorIDs" default=" ">
    <cfparam name="S_MovWiz.StarActorID" default=" ">


  </cfif>
</cflock>


<!---  If user just submitted MovieTitle, remember it
       Do same for the directorID, Actors and so on.
--->

  <cfif IsDefined("Form.MovieTitle")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.MovieTitle = Form.MovieTitle>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.PitchText = Form.PitchText>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.RatingID = Form.RatingID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.DirectorID")>
   <cfset S_MovWiz.DirectorID = Form.DirectorID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.ActorID")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.ActorIDs = Form.ActorID>

  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.StarActorID")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StarActorID = Form.StarActorID>

  </cfif>

<!---  If user clicked back button, go back a step  --->
  <cfif IsDefined("Form.GoBack")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StepNum = URL.StepNum - 1>
<!---  If user clicked next button go forward one  --->
  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.GoNext")>
    <cfset S_MovWiz.StepNum = URL.StepNum + 1>
<!---  If user clicked "finished" button, were done  --->
  <cfelseif IsDefined("Form.GoDone")>
    <cflocation URL="NewMovieCommit.cfm">
  </cfif>


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
     <title>New Movie Form Wizard</title>
</head>

<body>

<!---  Show title and current step  --->
<cfoutput>
  <b>New Movie Wizard</b><br>
  Step #S_MovWiz.StepNum# of #NumOfSteps#<br>
</cfoutput>

<!---  Data entry form which submits back to itself  --->
<cfform action="NewMovieWizard.cfm?StepNum=#S_MovWiz.StepNum#" method="POST"
enablecab="Yes">

  <!---  Display the appropriate wizard step  --->
  <cfswitch expression="#S_MovWiz.StepNum#">

    <!---  step one: movie title  --->
    <cfcase value="1">
        <!---  Show text entry field for title  --->
        What is the title of the movie?<br>
        <cfinput type="Text"
         name="MovieTitle"
         value="#S_MovWiz.MovieTitle#"
         message="Please enter your movie title"
         size="50"
         maxlength="255">

      <!---  Show text entry for short description  --->
      <p>What is the "pitch" or "one-liner" for the movie?</p>
        <cfinput type="Text"
         name="PitchText"
         value="#S_MovWiz.PitchText#"
         message="Please enter the pitch text"
         size="50"
         maxlength="100">

       <CFQUERY NAME="GetRating" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
          SELECT    RatingID, Rating
          FROM      FilmsRatings
          ORDER BY  RatingID
       </CFQUERY>

     <p>Select your movie rating?</p>
       <cfselect name="RatingID"
          size="1"
          message="Please choose one"
          query="GetRating"
          display="Rating"
          value="RatingID"
          selected="#S_MovWiz.RatingID#">
        </cfselect><br>
    </cfcase>

    <cfcase value="2">
      <!---  Get list of directors from database  --->
      <CFQUERY NAME="GetDirectors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
        SELECT
          DirectorID,
          FirstName+ ' ' +LastName AS FullName
        FROM
          Directors
        ORDER BY
          LastName
      </CFQUERY>

      <!---
              Show all directors in select list
              Pre select if user has chosen one
      --->

      Who will be directing the movie?<br>
        <cfselect name="Directors"
            size="#GetDirectors.RecordCount#"
            message="Please choose one of these directors"
            query="GetDirectors"
            value="DirectorID"
            display="FullName"
            selected="#S_MovWiz.DirectorID#"
            >
         </cfselect>
    </cfcase>

    <cfcase value="3">
      <!---  Get list of actors from database  --->
      <CFQUERY NAME="GetActors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
        SELECT  *
        FROM    Actors
        ORDER BY  NameLast
      </CFQUERY>

     What actors will be in the movie?<br>

     <!---  For each actor, display check box  --->

     <cfloop query="GetActors">

      <!---  Should check box be pre-checked  --->
      <cfset IsChecked = ListFind(S_MovWiz.ActorIDs, ActorID)>

      <!---  Check box itself  --->
      <cfinput type="Checkbox"
       name="ActorID"
       value="#ActorID#">

      <!---  actor name  --->
      <cfoutput>#NameFirst# #NameLast#</cfoutput><br>
     </cfloop>
    </cfcase>

    <!---  Step for in the wizard -- who is the star?  --->
    <cfcase value="4">

      <cfif S_MovWiz.ActorIDs EQ " ">
        Please go back to the last step and choose at least one
        actor or actress to in the movie.

      <cfelse>
        <!---  Get actors who are in the film  --->
  <CFQUERY NAME="GetActors" DATASOURCE="#DataSource#">
          SELECT * FROM Actors
          WHERE ActorID IN (#S_MovWiz.ActorIDs#)
          ORDER BY NameLast
        </CFQUERY>

       Which one of the actors will get top billing?<br>

       <!---  For each actor, display radio button  --->
       <cfloop query="GetActors">

          <!---  should radio be pre checked  --->
          <cfset IsChecked = S_MovWiz.StarActorID EQ ActorID>

          <!---  Radio button itself  --->
          <cfinput type="Radio"
             name="StarActorID"
             value="#ActorID#"
             Checked = "#IsChecked#">

         <!---  actor name  --->
         <cfoutput>#NameFirst# #NameLast#</cfoutput><br>

       </cfloop>

      </cfif>


    </cfcase>
  </cfswitch>

  <p>
  <!---  show back button unless at first step  --->
  <cfif S_MovWiz.StepNum GT 1>
    <input type="submit" name="GoBack" value="<<< Back">
  </cfif>

  <!---
        Show next button unless at last step. If at last step
        show finish button.
  --->

  <cfif S_MovWiz.StepNum LT NumOfSteps>
    <input type="submit" name="GoNext" value="Next >>>">

  <cfelse>
    <input type="submit" name="GoDone" value="Finish">
  </cfif>
  </p>
</cfform>



</body>
</html>




---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep  1 17:43:50 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Sep  1 17:43:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Object can't be accessed without an active lock??
In-Reply-To: <001401c13334$a34b94c0$59d6fea9@nones2s46on6ht>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELMEKLJCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

kevin,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Kevin
>
> SESSION.MovWiz = StructNew()
> Error near line 45, column 13.
> -----------------
>
> Symbol SESSION.MovWiz is in a scope that contains
> data shared across threads and cannot be accessed
> without an active lock
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you need an exclusive lock, rather than a readonly lock since you're writing
to the session variables.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep  1 17:46:22 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep  1 17:46:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] SQL - Foreign Key Constraint - in another database?
In-Reply-To: <000001c13333$e03e6a20$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0109011821410.10538-100000@scooter.webservepro.com>

>Establish naming conventions for your databases, and ensure that all
>databases, fields, tables, stored procedures, etc. conform. It helps with
>the portability and reusability of code and data, and is a bit of a memory
>aid; when you know, for instance, that tables are always named in the
>plural, you don't have to struggle to remember if it was 'employee' or
>'employees' and can focus on the task rather than the minutiae.


Ewww... that naming convention is not needed because table names should
never be plural. They don't need to be. Tables have multiple records, so
a 'table' implies the plural anyways.

So:

create table EMPLOYEE
(
...
);

implies that the table will hold multiple employees. Singlular table names
are so much nicer than plural (is that CATEGORYS or CATEGORIES? OCTOPUSSES
or OCTOPI? FISHES or FISH?).

Not that everyone follows this. Hell, even the evolt database has plurals
in some instances.


I'd show you a diagram of the evolt db, but it's pretty out of date. And,
no, this isn't a subtle prod, rudy  =)

</soapbox>


thanks,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From unuk at runbox.com  Sun Sep  2 06:06:59 2001
From: unuk at runbox.com (Mr Dave)
Date: Sun Sep  2 06:06:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] MPEG video not displaying in N6.01
References: <001101c13248$27b39840$2c29193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <001401c133a0$f4cacd40$437f01d5@stevens>

> Another puzzle. I discovered that all I needed to do to place  a video
MPEG
> in an HTML page was to use <a href> and the full URL. I had used <obj> and
> <embed> with all the params and got bad results. It displays and plays
just
> fine in IE5.5 and NN4.7. But not a thing displays in N6.01, not even the
> link!

I don't have N6.01 so I couldn't check that specifically, but the problem
may well be that in your CSS at the start of your page, you have specified
the link colour to be the same as the background colour of the page, which
is why the link cannot be seen.

HTH
Mr Dave




From sfmalo at email.msn.com  Sun Sep  2 08:05:43 2001
From: sfmalo at email.msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun Sep  2 08:05:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] MPEG video not displaying in N6.01
References: <001101c13248$27b39840$2c29193f@oemcomputer> <001401c133a0$f4cacd40$437f01d5@stevens>
Message-ID: <002301c133ae$eace4fc0$a5241b3f@oemcomputer>

Thanks, Mr. Dave. That was really a dumb mistake but the other two browsers
I checked it in both displayed the link (probably 'cause it had already been
visited while testing). Thanks for catching that. N6.1 prompts you to
download the MPEG after which the MediaPlayer screen immediately appears and
the clip starts playing. So I've found that the <a href> tag works on all
browsers I tested, but the <obj><embed> code doesn't work in NN4.7. I had
used those tags on another test page first.

S.

From: "Mr Dave" <unuk at runbox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:18 AM

> > Another puzzle. I discovered that all I needed to do to place  a video
> MPEG
> > in an HTML page was to use <a href> and the full URL. I had used <obj>
and
> > <embed> with all the params and got bad results. It displays and plays
> just
> > fine in IE5.5 and NN4.7. But not a thing displays in N6.01, not even the
> > link!
>
> I don't have N6.01 so I couldn't check that specifically, but the problem
> may well be that in your CSS at the start of your page, you have specified
> the link colour to be the same as the background colour of the page, which
> is why the link cannot be seen.
>
> HTH
> Mr Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com





From ALBIE at eurosimm.com  Sun Sep  2 08:12:59 2001
From: ALBIE at eurosimm.com (ALBIE ATTIAS)
Date: Sun Sep  2 08:12:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] coding language advice needed
Message-ID: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144E7F@EUROSIMMLTD01>

Hi
 
 
I'm working on a site which will include a variety of online tests
consisting of questions with multiple choice answers. The user can only
select one answer per question (so I'll probably use radio buttons) and a
score will be built up as they progress through the test. Once the test is
over, they will be redirected to one of several results pages depending on
their final score.
 
My question is, what's the best language for me to code this in? ASP, CGI,
Java, something else?  I know they're probably all valid languages but I'm
looking for the easiest way forwards as I'm gonna have to teach myself from
scratch here. So if anyone can answer this and point me towards relevant
sites, that'd be great. Even better though, if anyone knows any links to
sites bearing prewritten scripts that already achieve a similar thing, it'd
make life a lot easier.
 
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Albie Attias 
IT Manager 
Eurosimm specialise in Memory, Hard Drives, Options & Solutions for Major
Branded Systems 
Compaq / IBM / HP / Toshiba / Western Digital / Maxtor / Fujitsu / Hitachi /
Seagate / Quantum 
E-Mail:albie at eurosimm.com
Web: http://www.eurosimm.com
Tel : +44 (0) 1706 360000
Fax : +44 (0) 1706 620000 
AOL IM : AAEUROSIMM 



From david.braun at centralnet.ch  Sun Sep  2 08:43:46 2001
From: david.braun at centralnet.ch (david braun)
Date: Sun Sep  2 08:43:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <OE21jCRGryWtIIZS2TR0000c9a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010902153920-r01010800-7e26a0fa-0910-0108@193.135.147.143>

[ 29.08.2001 - 16:30 Uhr ]
jelle desramaults was writing:

> Evolters,
> 
> just moved from a pc to a mac environment (somebody shoot me ! ). I don't
> have a clue wich tools one uses to Edit HTML (homesite for mac ?) and upload
> files (wsftp for mac ?). Really need some , cuz the clients won't stop
> nagging (i asked them politely).
> 
> Any help would be highly appreciated,

Hi Jelle

As said before, BBEdit (wich is best), or pepper, wich is said to be a
nice alternative, or "html-editor" (shareware, quite powerful)

then, of course, there's Dreamweaver etc, but you knew this...

for ftp-ing, despite of fetch, there's goodlooking transmit
(www.panic.com), or goodequipped interarchy (www.interarchy.com ,
formerly known as anarchy)

<tip tipe="macintosh software-links" author="david braun">

For extensive lists of what software-products there are for the mac, lookup
http://guide.apple.com/ussoftware.lasso
http://www.versiontracker.com

</tip>



From neuromancer at mail.neurostimuli.com  Sun Sep  2 08:51:43 2001
From: neuromancer at mail.neurostimuli.com (NEUROMANCER)
Date: Sun Sep  2 08:51:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] New To The List
Message-ID: <NEBBLKDDKLNEIAJDEFHAIEKMDGAA.neuromancer@mail.neurostimuli.com>

Hi all,
	New to the list so I should first say hello. Next, I was wondering if I
could get you all to do a quick site check on a work in progress. The URl
is:
http://www.neurostimuli.com/n/3/index.html

Any comments are greatly appreciated.
Best,
Charles Cowen
----------------
<Email> neuromancer at neurostimuli.com
<Email> digitalzen at megapathdsl.net
<Web> http://www.neurostimuli.com
----------------
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient any use or dissemination of this
communication is prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error
notify us immediately, then delete this e-mail.  This e-mail and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus, it is the responsibility
of the recipient to ensure that they are free of any such virus or defect
and no responsibility is accepted by Neurostimuli.




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Sep  2 09:32:10 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Sep  2 09:32:10 2001
Subject: site critique: neurostimuli.com (was [thelist] New To The List)
Message-ID: <01c133bb$3e0b1860$4249149a@rudy>

> http://www.neurostimuli.com/n/3/index.html

hi charles

i don't get it, i see a totally black screen

(badump-bump -- thank you, thank you, i'll be here all week...)

okay, once i had hit refresh and this time allowed activex, here's what i
saw

1. site requirements

see if you can do away with this screen

it will scare some people away, and others, who (like me) aren't sure what
version they have of whatever proprietary software the site requires that
they have, will just ignore the info and say to themselves "i have no idea
if i have the right software, but if i can get in, i'll take a look, and if
something doesn't work, then i'm outta there"

2. create login name

see if you can do away with this screen, it too will scare some people away

if you want to cater to people who like to be addressed by name when they
are viewing a website (perhaps they did not receive enough love as a
child), make it optional and unobtrusive, and if someone chooses not to
enter a name, don't address them by Your Name Here

3. popup instructions

see if you can do away with this screen, too

it is a third consecutive time you ask your site visitor to take some
action before being able to see the page

as they say in baseball, three strikes -- you're out

the "close window" link is so faint as to be almost unnoticeable

4. main page

pretty

i can't really comment on the design

i found a lot of the text very hard to read -- too fuzzy and the
s    p    a    c    i    n    g         b   e    t    w    e    e    n
l    e    t    t    e    r    s
very annoying


oh, one other problem, i went to one of the pages, can't remember which
one, the schedule i think, then i hit my browser's back button, and
whoooooops, i'm back on the 1st of the three fences i have to jump (the
site requirements page)

at this point you would lose a *lot* of people


rudy





From sales at iibiz.com  Sun Sep  2 09:42:19 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz)
Date: Sun Sep  2 09:42:19 2001
Subject: site critique: neurostimuli.com (was [thelist] New To The List)
References: <01c133bb$3e0b1860$4249149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <012d01c133bd$3494ff60$bdb7b3c7@iibiz>

Hi -

I agree with Rudy.

It's a very nice site, but you are pushing users tolerences at the
beginning, i.e. "requirements, and sign in".

See if there's anyway you can eliminate some of those things, and you'll
have a much more user friendly page.

Good luck,

Sandy






From mg at markgroen.com  Sun Sep  2 10:11:11 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Sun Sep  2 10:11:11 2001
Subject: site critique: neurostimuli.com (was [thelist] New To The List)
References: <01c133bb$3e0b1860$4249149a@rudy> <012d01c133bd$3494ff60$bdb7b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <006a01c133c0$b83fa240$df694f18@vc.shawcable.net>

> I agree with Rudy.
>
> It's a very nice site, but you are pushing users tolerences at the
> beginning, i.e. "requirements, and sign in".
>
> See if there's anyway you can eliminate some of those things, and
you'll
> have a much more user friendly page.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Sandy
There was a requirements and sign in page? Didn't get that far after I
had to refresh for ActiveX. Went back, clicked on a couple things and
couldn't read anything but the largest type on the Map and Directions
page - left site. Very nice logo and icon work though. For a select
audience of repeat visitors it may be a pretty cool site.




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sun Sep  2 10:17:30 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sun Sep  2 10:17:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] coding language advice needed
In-Reply-To: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144E7F@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0109021107550.1068-100000@scooter.webservepro.com>

On Aug 29, ALBIE ATTIAS had something to say about [thelist] coding...

>My question is, what's the best language for me to code this in? ASP, CGI,
>Java, something else? 

What's the platform? Unix/Apache? NT/IIS? That's important.

Out of the ones you mentioned, if your'e just starting off andhave no
perl/c background, ASP is certainly the easiest to pickup, especially if
you already have some client-side scripting experience
(javascript/jscript, vbscript).

If you're on Unix/Apache and have PHP support, I'd look into that. Mainly
because the numbe of concepts in PHP are less than a lot of
languages. it's mostly functions (with, of course, normal programming flow
structures) and relatively similar to javascript as far as syntax. If you
have perl experience, I'd say either just go with perl/cgi or go with PHP.

what database are you going to use? or, are you using a database to hold
the questions, correct answers, and users' scores? you probably
should. again, the database you use depends on what platform you're on.

hth a bit,


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From g1notami at zoominternet.net  Sun Sep  2 10:39:45 2001
From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D.Bruce Saurer)
Date: Sun Sep  2 10:39:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] New To The List
References: <NEBBLKDDKLNEIAJDEFHAIEKMDGAA.neuromancer@mail.neurostimuli.com>
Message-ID: <006701c133c4$f3a70360$4fba4c3f@zoominternet.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "NEUROMANCER"


> Hi all,
> New to the list so I should first say hello. Next, I was wondering if I
> could get you all to do a quick site check on a work in progress. The URl
> is:
> http://www.neurostimuli.com/n/3/index.html
>
> Any comments are greatly appreciated.
> Best,
> Charles Cowen

love the artwork but, I would have seen none of it I were a casual user...to
many hoops to jump

Bruce
g1notami at zoominternet.net





From travis at treevis.com  Sun Sep  2 11:04:35 2001
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Sun Sep  2 11:04:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] New To The List
In-Reply-To: <006701c133c4$f3a70360$4fba4c3f@zoominternet.net>
References: <NEBBLKDDKLNEIAJDEFHAIEKMDGAA.neuromancer@mail.neurostimuli.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902114745.00a02200@treevis.com>

At 11:35 am 9/2/01, you wrote:
>> http://www.neurostimuli.com/n/3/index.html

I typed in my name and now whenever i go back, it says, "Welcome Back, ..." I doesn't give me the option of if i'm not "travis".

also, windows media player is not a requirement to view the site. it is if you want to listen to music, but not to view the content of the site. perhaps a more friendly way to put it is that for a "full" experience, have this, that, and this.

why do you limit yourself to IE and Netscape? What about the other browsers out there - like Opera (which this site killed)? not everyone uses these two. It's really annoying that people limit themselves to just one or two browsers - especially for sites that have a VERY wide audience. potentially anyone from anywhere could come to this site to get information about a concert. say they don't use IE or netscape. guess they won't go to a concert there since they can't get into the site! very bad form. your design has effectively shut out a segment of your customers.

travis




From laurie at kilmartin.com  Sun Sep  2 11:07:22 2001
From: laurie at kilmartin.com (laurie kilmartin)
Date: Sun Sep  2 11:07:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI question
Message-ID: <B7B7D0D5.6A94%laurie@kilmartin.com>

Hey there

I want to use SSI to show information in a txt file. Does the txt file have
to be in the same domain directory as the shtml file that's calling it? Can
two domains use SSI to call the same file in one domain's directory?

For example, I have two domains- kilmartin.com and lauriekilmartin.com. I
want both domains to display the file "information.txt"  Can the txt file
exist in just one place on my little section of my webhost's server, or does
it have to exist in the kilmartin.com directory AND the lauriekilmartin.com
directory.

Thanks
Laurie
--





Laurie Kilmartin
http://www.kilmartin.com 




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Sep  2 12:24:42 2001
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Sep  2 12:24:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] weird z-index behaviour in IE6.0
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAKELHFKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

Hi

This is odd.

I just downloaded IE6.0 and was quite happy until......

I'm working with Greymatter to set up a blog, and have used CSS for
formatting.

I'm using a stylesheet I found here:
http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/layout3.html

This uses the z-index to keep a content div above a menu div when the
window gets narrow.

Now the odd bit.

I added a graphic to the content div, which has a colored background.
IE6.0 renders the graphic at a lower z-index, making it invisible!

I then used negative z-indexes so that the div was lower than the
graphic, but NS6.0 goes one better and puts the background above the
divs - no content!

I guess IE6.0 has a bug here, because with z-indexes as expected
background - 0
Content div - 3
Menu divs - 2

The graphic in the content is visible in both Opera and NS

Anyone else seen it?

Anyone found a way out?

Or am I going code crazy?

TIA

Tony






-----------------------------------------
You need NEO - instantly organized email
http://www.caelo.com/a/rl.php3?i=3NTVV
-----------------------------------------




From jet at matantisi.com  Sun Sep  2 12:38:48 2001
From: jet at matantisi.com (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Sun Sep  2 12:38:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI question
In-Reply-To: <B7B7D0D5.6A94%laurie@kilmartin.com>
References: <B7B7D0D5.6A94%laurie@kilmartin.com>
Message-ID: <p05100303b7b81c6d81d3@[63.210.216.164]>

Yes, you can do that, just be sure to put the correct url/path for 
the file in the include tag.

>Hey there
>
>I want to use SSI to show information in a txt file. Does the txt file have
>to be in the same domain directory as the shtml file that's calling it? Can
>two domains use SSI to call the same file in one domain's directory?
>
>For example, I have two domains- kilmartin.com and lauriekilmartin.com. I
>want both domains to display the file "information.txt"  Can the txt file
>exist in just one place on my little section of my webhost's server, or does
>it have to exist in the kilmartin.com directory AND the lauriekilmartin.com
>directory.
>
>Thanks
>Laurie
>--

-- 



From jet at matantisi.com  Sun Sep  2 12:47:02 2001
From: jet at matantisi.com (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Sun Sep  2 12:47:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
In-Reply-To: <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p05100304b7b81decdbc2@[63.210.216.164]>

Unless, as I do, you have a large number (hundreds) of pages that 
*don't* use includes, in which case, using .htaccess to parse .html 
files can slow down your site a *lot*.  So on my site that doesn't 
use many includes, I use .shtml; on the site where pretty much 
everything *does* use them, I use .htaccess.

>Yup, and doing so obviously, whereas if your whole site is
>based on SSIs and is on Apache (mine is), you can set
>the server to parse .html extensions with .htaccess.
>
>If you don't do that, you'll be editing .htaccess
>anyway to ensure that http://www.domain.com/
>looks for http://www.domain.com/index.shtml
>as well as/rather than index.html
>
>At some point, I'll document a bunch of SSI/XSSI stuff
>I use in my site as an evolt tutorial.
>
>Cheers
>Martin

-- 



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Sep  2 13:13:47 2001
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Sep  2 13:13:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] weird z-index behaviour in IE6.0
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAKELHFKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAGELIFKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

This might make it more fun:

http://www.fonly.co.uk/gm/?

TIA



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Sep  2 13:33:18 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Sep  2 13:33:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI question
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b7b81c6d81d3@[63.210.216.164]>
References: <B7B7D0D5.6A94%laurie@kilmartin.com>
 <B7B7D0D5.6A94%laurie@kilmartin.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902112500.01b22410@baratta.com>

At 10:27 AM 9/2/2001, you wrote:
>Yes, you can do that, just be sure to put the correct url/path for the 
>file in the include tag.

FYI...you must use the OS Path to correctly include the file, the URL is 
irrelevant in this case. For example:

         Domain One lives at /web/sites/DomainOne/www
         Domain Two lives at /web/sites/DomainTwo/www

You decide to put shared SSI files at:

         /web/sites/SharedSSI/www

In your include files you need to use the ../../.. convension to get to the 
proper location:

         [!--#include file="../../SharedSSI/www/include.txt" --]

You can not use the #include virtual option here since that would "lock" 
you into the web root directory.

Hope that helps.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Sep  2 13:35:45 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Sep  2 13:35:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
In-Reply-To: <p05100304b7b81decdbc2@[63.210.216.164]>
References: <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
 <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902112931.02a984c8@baratta.com>

At 10:35 AM 9/2/2001, you wrote:
>Unless, as I do, you have a large number (hundreds) of pages that *don't* 
>use includes, in which case, using .htaccess to parse .html files can slow 
>down your site a *lot*.  So on my site that doesn't use many includes, I 
>use .shtml; on the site where pretty much everything *does* use them, I 
>use .htaccess.

FYI - The server hit is negligible on low to medium trafficked sites. It's 
only on high use sites that the extra parsing is going to hit you. Even 
then proper tweaking of the web server can allow you to continue to use SSIs.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From william at manuel.as  Sun Sep  2 13:46:59 2001
From: william at manuel.as (liam)
Date: Sun Sep  2 13:46:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] coding language advice needed
References: <211BAD7C3407D511A02F00508BC5D988144E7F@EUROSIMMLTD01>
Message-ID: <200109021628.AAA12981@mail.pal-onl.com>

on the client side:
i know this could also be done using advanced javascripting, hidden forms and/or cookies (look for the book 'javascript and jscript' by james jaworski for an idea)
but personally, i'll go for flash and flash actionscripting for added interactivity and 'fun-factor'.

but you'll have to learn either perl-cgi or asp or php or whatever if you want to track and record scores and logs on the server side.

-liam

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:56:24 +0100, ALBIE ATTIAS wrote:
>
>Hi
>
>
>I'm working on a site which will include a variety of online tests
>consisting of questions with multiple choice answers. The user can only
>select one answer per question (so I'll probably use radio buttons) and a
>score will be built up as they progress through the test. Once the test is
>over, they will be redirected to one of several results pages depending on
>their final score.
>
>My question is, what's the best language for me to code this in? ASP, CGI,
>Java, something else? ?I know they're probably all valid languages but I'm
>looking for the easiest way forwards as I'm gonna have to teach myself from
>scratch here. So if anyone can answer this and point me towards relevant
>sites, that'd be great. Even better though, if anyone knows any links to
>sites bearing prewritten scripts that already achieve a similar thing, it'd
>make life a lot easier.
>
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Albie Attias
>IT Manager
>Eurosimm specialise in Memory, Hard Drives, Options &?Solutions for Major
>Branded Systems
>Compaq / IBM / HP / Toshiba / Western Digital / Maxtor / Fujitsu / Hitachi /
>Seagate / Quantum
>E-Mail:albie at eurosimm.com
>Web: http://www.eurosimm.com
>Tel : +44 (0) 1706 360000
>Fax : +44 (0) 1706 620000
>AOL IM : AAEUROSIMM
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>






From jet at matantisi.com  Sun Sep  2 14:18:08 2001
From: jet at matantisi.com (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Sun Sep  2 14:18:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSI Reference
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902112931.02a984c8@baratta.com>
References: <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
 <03dbd4457070191PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010902112931.02a984c8@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <p05100305b7b833b9fb24@[63.210.216.164]>

Yes, well, parts of the site get a pretty high traffic, and I don't 
have control of the server for tweaking purposes.

>At 10:35 AM 9/2/2001, you wrote:
>>Unless, as I do, you have a large number (hundreds) of pages that 
>>*don't* use includes, in which case, using .htaccess to parse .html 
>>files can slow down your site a *lot*.  So on my site that doesn't 
>>use many includes, I use .shtml; on the site where pretty much 
>>everything *does* use them, I use .htaccess.
>
>FYI - The server hit is negligible on low to medium trafficked 
>sites. It's only on high use sites that the extra parsing is going 
>to hit you. Even then proper tweaking of the web server can allow 
>you to

-- 



From martin at members.evolt.org  Sun Sep  2 15:23:14 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sun Sep  2 15:23:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Writing for the Web (fwd)
Message-ID: <0ec4a2858211e81PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

the head lemur wrote on 30/8/01 7:12 pm

>Re: Jakob
>Jakob's note was written in 1997.
>On the web in 1997 we were beginning in the infancy of development and
>presentation. There were not many good writers then, there are not many good
>writers now. 

Indeed, there are probably more poor *web* writers because more
offline writers have come into the industry without understanding
the medium.

It pretty much parallels those print designers (ie not all of them!)
who expect pixel perfection on all platforms...

>There are no rules for writing on the web outside of laws on slander, libel,
>plagerism and copyright infringment.

No, but there are reasonable guidelines based on HCI. Rule or no rule,
it's hard for people to read long, non-chunked copy off a screen.

Of course, Jakob's rules are largely good tabloid journalistic style
(minus the sensationalism) - inverted pyramid structure, short,
chunked with subheads etc. Tabloids are very, very carefully
written - it's hard to tell a story which can be read while standing
at a bus stop with distractions.

Cheers
Martin 

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From gina at sitediva.com  Sun Sep  2 16:08:04 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Sun Sep  2 16:08:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Hi all,

Moving to a house where I finally get a real office :) I
will have three computers in the office, and I have been
trying to find some "multiple computer" furniture. So far,
everything I have seen holds one computer. I already have
three desks for that ;-) I'd like to one modular type desk
that will seat at least two people comfortably, hopefully
three (for company ;-).

I'm thinking I might need to go commercial, instead of the
consumer type furniture. Does anyone have any links to
products that might work here? I might have to build it
myself, LOL!

Thanks for any guidance,
Gina




From mbarrett at triad.rr.com  Sun Sep  2 16:57:45 2001
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Sun Sep  2 16:57:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <B7B8228E.7633%mbarrett@triad.rr.com>

> I might have to build it
> myself, LOL! 

Actually, you're not far off the mark with that 'build it myself' comment.

I think you will find most office systems, the affordable ones especially,
but even the heavies like Herman Miller, are seriously lacking when it comes
to the multi-computer professional.

Most office systems are simply not that flexible, or allow enough desktop
space. They are cluttered with useless storage spaces, and silly things like
built in cd racks, which hold 5 cds. Feh.

I'm fortunate to have a rather large finished attic to use as my office, in
which I have one large (12' long by 4' wide) conference table as my desk.

It easily holds 3 computers. Couple of printers, a scanner a phone, and
lotsa paper.

That arrangement might not work for you...but something to consider would be
making desks from solid core, unfinished doors, purchased from your local
Home-Depot or wherever. Use file cabinets as table legs. If the doors come
with pre-drilled doorknob holes - Viola. Cable router.

Cover the table/door surface with the vinyl covers architects use on
drafting boards. Available at any good art supply shop, or drafting supply
shop. Then the surface is great for writing on, and you don't need a coaster
for your favorite frosty beverage.

You could put doors against three walls in your room, and have wall to wall
to wall desktop space.



-- Michael Barrett
-O^O-
 - 

mbarrett at triad.rr.com
AIM: device55




From annie at twitch.ca  Sun Sep  2 17:31:06 2001
From: annie at twitch.ca (Annie)
Date: Sun Sep  2 17:31:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>

:P I just use three of those 8' leg foldy outy tables from the Office
Depot - one on each wall. I've tried desks so many times and they always
annoy me, NOT enough room. Except there's one killer glass desk that Ikea
sells that would rock... its just like my tables but prettier, with matching
shelves on the wall... mmmmm....

Annie


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gina K. Anderson
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:04 PM
To: Evolt
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture


Hi all,

Moving to a house where I finally get a real office :) I
will have three computers in the office, and I have been
trying to find some "multiple computer" furniture. So far,
everything I have seen holds one computer. I already have
three desks for that ;-) I'd like to one modular type desk
that will seat at least two people comfortably, hopefully
three (for company ;-).

I'm thinking I might need to go commercial, instead of the
consumer type furniture. Does anyone have any links to
products that might work here? I might have to build it
myself, LOL!

Thanks for any guidance,
Gina


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From john at neoncowboy.com  Sun Sep  2 18:24:38 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (john corry)
Date: Sun Sep  2 18:24:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP script design tips (long)
In-Reply-To: <20010901152020.0da1739a.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEBDEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

> > I've been playing with PHP for almost a year now, but I have no formal
> > programming training.
>
> Pah... proper training is for wimps, I just let the force be my guide.
>
> > So, I'm getting to the point where I understand
> > how most of the PHP functions work and how to accomplish most common
> > tasks.  But I find that I'm having problem with fundamental
> > programming issues.
>
> Yeah.. I have those all the time *:)

I have this same thing going...where I'm sort of new at scripting in
general, but am picking up enough of the basics that I can make stuff
work...it would just be really embarassing for any programmer to read my
code and actually see how un-clever and un-elegant I am.

That said, I am making some progress and I can attribute it mainly to 3
things:
1) practice - A lot of times I don't try things because I'm not sure that I
can pull it off. That's no good, you have to push to grow at anything. I am
active in adventure type sports and know from those experiences that to get
good at anythign you have to push beyond the known & comfortable and take on
bigger bites than you can chew. My biggest successes come when I try
soemthing new and it works. When I fail, its no big deal because that was
going a little too far anyway.

2) ask a lot of questions - I have learned more from members of this
community than from any other single source.

3) read the code of others - You know this already...but it is a big
confidence builder to see that 'programmers' aer approachign things the same
way you are. I expecially like the articles on phpbuilder.com, they seem to
approach the tutorial process from a flexible perspective to try o help
people to write better programs.

:)
jpc




From matthew.garrett at snet.net  Sun Sep  2 18:36:20 2001
From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett)
Date: Sun Sep  2 18:36:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <B7B83B8E.8865%matthew.garrett@snet.net>

the industrial strength answer:
http://www.anthro.com/

good luck,
matt

> From: "Gina K. Anderson" <gina at sitediva.com>

> I'm thinking I might need to go commercial, instead of the
> consumer type furniture. Does anyone have any links to
> products that might work here? I might have to build it
> myself, LOL!




From travis at treevis.com  Sun Sep  2 18:50:17 2001
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Sun Sep  2 18:50:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] mySQL and PHP troubles
In-Reply-To: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>
References: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902193351.009fee30@treevis.com>

Hi.

I'm learning mySQL and PHP. I'm working through some examples in the Beginning PHP4 by WROX. I have a mySQL table and I want to use PHP to display the userid and username.

the PHP script is:

<?php
include "common_db.inc.php";  [ specifies db_connect() function ]

$link_id = db_connect('sample_db');
$result = mysql_query("select * from user", $link_id);

while($query_data = mysql_fetch_row($result)) {
     echo "<p>'",$query_data[1],"' is also known as ",$query_data[3],"</p>";
}
?>

[$query_data[1] is the userid; $query_data[3] is the username]

When I run this script, I get the following error:
"Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in file.php on line 8"
[line 8 contains the while() function]

Any thoughts on why this is happening? It also happens when I rearrange the script to use mysql_fetch_array(), and mysql_fetch_object().

I'm running MySQL 3.23.32 and PHP 4.0.5.

Thanks,
travis




From gina at sitediva.com  Sun Sep  2 18:51:16 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Sun Sep  2 18:51:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
In-Reply-To: <B7B8228E.7633%mbarrett@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEJFLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Michael,

|> I might have to build it
|> myself, LOL!
|
|Actually, you're not far off the mark with that
|'build it myself' comment.

I didn't figure I was--since I wrote the email, I've been
drafting my new three comp computer station in my head ;-)
Thank you for your great ideas! I never thought of using
solid core unfinished doors and that drafting table vinyl
covers! Hmmm (gears spinning in head). Filing cabinets as
legs..yep, that is working for me. The only thing is I
*really* like the pull out shelves for the keyboard..I might
have to over to Home Depot or something--but I think I have
seen those for sale as accessories in stores. It took me
forever to find a desk that I liked, I have my keyboard, a
mouse and pad, and a graphic tablet all on my pull out
shelf. This was the only desk I could find with this long of
a shelf. Heck, I could probably figger a way to rig this for
PDC (pretty durn cheap).

Thanks for the ideas!

Gina




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Sun Sep  2 19:47:23 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Sun Sep  2 19:47:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Office Furniture
References: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <003001c13411$677fc640$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

Best computer furniture I have found

http://www.lemurzone.com/pixel/desk.htm

Made by Bestar in Canada

tough rugged and big enough

this particular grey one was 300 bucks
found at Costco/Price Club






From web at master.gen.in.us  Sun Sep  2 20:08:19 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sun Sep  2 20:08:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP script design tips (long)
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAIEBDEBAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
References: <20010901152020.0da1739a.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B929ED5.28562.24D0E5B9@localhost>

On 2 Sep 2001, at 13:22, john corry posted a message which said:

> I have this same thing going...where I'm sort of new at scripting in
> general, but am picking up enough of the basics that I can make stuff
> work...it would just be really embarassing for any programmer to read my
> code and actually see how un-clever and un-elegant I am.

There's a difference between being clever and being elegant.

A clever solution is not particularly desirable, because it is
not clear *what* you are doing, and *why* it works.  Every
time you go in to modify the code, you have to puzzle it out
again - and if you maintain the code on a bad-hair-day, it
is going to take *forever* to get out the new bugs.

An elegant solution is straightforward and clear. You figured
out what you want to do, and your code clearly goes from point
A to point B. Every time you go in to modify the code, you can
instantly see what you need to do, and you can do it easily. 
There aren't any bugs when you write the code in the first place,
and there aren't likely to be any when you maintain it.

So you're *half* way there. And when you learn to take a few minutes
to make a pot of coffee and *think* about what you're doing before
you do it, you'll soon be most of the way there. The *fastest* way to
write good code is to keep your cotton-pickin' fingers off the keyboard
as long as you can. If it resembles being lazy, so be it. Better to write
20 lines of maintainable code that works right and works well than to
write 200 lines of crap.

deke







------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sun Sep  2 20:25:37 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sun Sep  2 20:25:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP script design tips (long)
In-Reply-To: <3B929ED5.28562.24D0E5B9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B7B8291F.7581%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

deke <web at master.gen.in.us> typed:

> An elegant solution is straightforward and clear. You figured
> out what you want to do, and your code clearly goes from point
> A to point B. Every time you go in to modify the code, you can
> instantly see what you need to do, and you can do it easily.
> There aren't any bugs when you write the code in the first place,
> and there aren't likely to be any when you maintain it.

Yo. Brilliant. You're exactly right, with one caveat: one man's clarity is
another's mystery. Documentation is the key to letting others know about
your elegance.

I've found that the simple act of commenting every line of code often lets
you perceive more elegant solutions.

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Sep  2 21:28:32 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Sep  2 21:28:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] mySQL and PHP troubles
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902193351.009fee30@treevis.com>
References: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>
 <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902191836.02aab670@baratta.com>

At 04:44 PM 9/2/2001, you wrote:
>Hi.
>
>I'm learning mySQL and PHP. I'm working through some examples in the 
>Beginning PHP4 by WROX. I have a mySQL table and I want to use PHP to 
>display the userid and username.


Are you sure that

         $result = mysql_query("select * from user", $link_id);

Is working correctly? does this return an error too??

         echo mysql_num_rows($result) ;
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From travis at treevis.com  Sun Sep  2 21:42:52 2001
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Sun Sep  2 21:42:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] mySQL and PHP troubles
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902191836.02aab670@baratta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902193351.009fee30@treevis.com>
 <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>
 <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902223130.00a07240@treevis.com>

At 10:24 pm 9/2/01, you wrote:
>At 04:44 PM 9/2/2001, you wrote:
>>
>>I'm learning mySQL and PHP. I'm working through some examples in the Beginning PHP4 by WROX. I have a mySQL table and I want to use PHP to display the userid and username.
>
>
>does this return an error too??
>
>        echo mysql_num_rows($result) ;

yes, the same error. so does that mean that mysql is not passing any information? i've confirmed that data are in the table.

FWIW, i don't get an error when i use just
        echo $result;

but i just get a blank page. seems that nothing is being assigned to the variable $result.

travis




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Sep  2 22:52:05 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Sep  2 22:52:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] mySQL and PHP troubles
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902223130.00a07240@treevis.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902191836.02aab670@baratta.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010902193351.009fee30@treevis.com>
 <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>
 <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902204614.02b1d610@baratta.com>

At 07:37 PM 9/2/2001, you wrote:

>yes, the same error. so does that mean that mysql is not passing any 
>information? i've confirmed that data are in the table.

You're either not getting a connection to the DB or not getting data back 
from the db. What's the db_conneciton function look like?

Better yet can you post all the relevant code including your 
includes/functions?
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From travis at treevis.com  Sun Sep  2 23:11:16 2001
From: travis at treevis.com (travis forden)
Date: Sun Sep  2 23:11:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] mySQL and PHP troubles
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902204614.02b1d610@baratta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902223130.00a07240@treevis.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010902191836.02aab670@baratta.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010902193351.009fee30@treevis.com>
 <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONMEABCEAA.annie@twitch.ca>
 <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLGEIOLBAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010902235653.00a06030@treevis.com>

At 11:47 pm 9/2/01, you wrote:
>Better yet can you post all the relevant code including your includes/functions?

I have been able to connect to the DB with this function from the include db_connect(). I created the DB 'sample_db' and the table 'user', populating it through PHP.

Here is the code: (from the file show_db.php)

<?php
//show_more_db.php
//include "common_db.inc.php";

//common_db.inc.php starts here

$dbhost = 'localhost';
$dbusername = 'xxx';
$dbuserpassword = 'xxx';
$default_dbname = 'test';  // could this be causing a problem - specifying this then using a different DB?

$MYSQL_ERRNO = '';
$MYSQL_ERROR = '';

function db_connect() {
        global $dbhost, $dbusername, $dbuserpassword, $default_dbname;
        global $MYSQL_ERRNO, $MYSQL_ERROR;
                                 
        $link_id = mysql_connect($dbhost, $dbusername, $dbuserpassword);
        if(!$link_id) {
            $MYSQL_ERRNO = 0;
                $MYSQL_ERROR = "connection failed to host $dbhost.";
                return 0;
        }
        else if(empty($dbname) && !mysql_select_db($default_dbname)) {
                $MYSQL_ERRNO = mysql_errno();
                $MYSQL_ERROR = mysql_error();
                return 0;
        }
        else return $link_id;
}

function sql_error() {
        global $MYSQL_ERRNO, $MYSQL_ERROR;
                                 
        if(empty($MYSQL_ERROR)) {
                $MYSQL_ERRNO = mysql_errno();
                $MYSQL_ERROR = mysql_error();
        }
        return "$MYSQL_ERRNO: $MYSQL_ERROR";
}
// common_db.inc.php ends here


$link_id = db_connect('sample_db');
$result = mysql_query("select * from user", $link_id);

while($query_data = mysql_fetch_row($result)) {
        echo "<p>'",$query_data[1],"' is also known as ",$query_data[3],"</p>";
}
?>