Andrew, i can see you are a man who know alot about this. bonehead requirement - i believe i said something simliar once to my manager - funnily enough i received a verbal warning for it??? a valueable lesson learned! i just find it frustrating - but one can but try and we are after allhere to be tested - and it certainly gives you a challenge and that what i love about development - the challenge. many thanks paul backhouse -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Chadwick Sent: 10 October 2001 17:43 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Award Winning Site??? On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 03:28:01PM +0100, Paul Backhouse wrote: > [Andrew Chadwick writes]: > >[relax your design bit by bit throughout the process until you get > >something that degrades nicely for the set of UAs you want to > >support; 'cept expressed a bit blunter than that] [...] > i totally agree with you, alot of the complications i get are from our > designers - i am solely a programmer - our designers get the time to string > together their nice designs , the customer signs off and i get started on > programming - unfortunately the problems start when the designer starts > explaining how they want the navigation to work etc... i - as a base - > program for IE 4+ and NS4+ on PC and Macs, our company feels that this the > main area which i agree with in most aspects. Forgive me if my tone was too sharp. Unix types tend to get a bit tetchy when it comes to web interoperability and support, mainly because we always seem to get the grotty end of the deal ("This shop codes for *both* systems: Windows *and* Mac!"). I only disagreed with the point that a design that degrades nicely across a given range of browsers must appear as drab in all UAs as it does in the dullest UA in the set. Approximations can be made, and CSS hacks or actual features can be employed to support (in the degrades- but-still-usable sense, and maybe in the degrades-but-still-pretty sense) a surprisingly wide range of browsers. They won't look the same, of course, and maybe they won't act quite the same with all UAs, but we should strive towards keeping them usable in the widest range of browsers possible while keeping within the spirit and letter of the specifications. Of course I can quite see where you're coming from if you've had bonehead requirements forced on your project that stop it from evolving in the right direction. Anyway, too much noise. Time for a tip: <tip type="CSS, hacks, features, degrade"> Crossreference http://pixels.pixelpark.com/~koch/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/ with http://www.webreview.com/style/css1/charts/mastergrid.shtml and code your CSS accordingly. </tip> -- Andrew Chadwick, UNIX/Internet Programmer, PR Newswire Europe, Oxford -- The views or opinions above are solely mine and are not necessarily those of PR Newswire Europe. The message may contain privileged or confidential information; if you are not a named recipient, notify me, and do not copy, use, or disclose this message. <andrew.chadwick at prnewswire.co.uk>. --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !