From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 01:10:11 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Mon Dec  3 01:10:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <000001c17ba8$6fab6430$0100a8c0@UrDaDDY>
Message-ID: <006501c17bc9$76195860$339c3841@lonnie>

Hi Aleem,


> I may be wrong, but isn't this concept applicable using javascript and
> DOM style/styleSheet objects, which also save a trip back to the server
> since they are client side ? If the .js file and .css files are both
> external, then it amounts to pretty much the same as what you have
> suggested save a trip back to the server.
>
> Once again, I've joined the discussion late, so correct me if I'm wrong.

No, not wrong, but the technique in discussion is most definitely
server-side. I certainly would be interested in any similar technique you've
developed using client-side scripting.

> Thanks,
> Aleem

LK





From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 01:10:15 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Mon Dec  3 01:10:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <3C0AB5DB.3443.38590CF4@localhost>
Message-ID: <006601c17bc9$76e2c2e0$339c3841@lonnie>

YO... adrian,

> > of a technique that aardvark (adrian) use(s/d) on his site

> wow, glad to see someone found something i wrote to be useful...

Surely you jest! You're a god.

> your approach is similar to one of my first steps -- i had an ASP file
> as my CSS, but it created problems for NN4.x (which i don't have
> installed at home, so i can't test yours)... because the default
> MIME type for ASP is text/html (and i couldn't make CSS
> executable even if i wanted since it's a shared NT host), and
> because a CSS file is supposed to be text/css, i found NN didn't
> seem to treat it as a CSS file...

Another vote for adding a MIME header. Got it! Will NN4.x ever go away?

> it also had caching problems as well, since it wasn't a different file...

Hmmm... varcss.asp?bc=000 caches, varcss.asp?bc=999 caches, same as ie.css
caches, nn.css caches, etc.

> it looks like you're struggling with some of the same things...

Struggling? Nah... Discovering!

LK





From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 01:10:20 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Mon Dec  3 01:10:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <006b01c17baa$4cc32a00$5e9f3841@lonnie> <4.2.0.58.20011203002329.0174a938@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <006701c17bc9$77bcf640$339c3841@lonnie>

'nuff said!

From: "Marc Seyon" <seyon at delime.com>

> NN4 doesn't seem to work at all.




From cache at dowebs.com  Mon Dec  3 01:44:50 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Mon Dec  3 01:44:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <001701c17ae3$e29401c0$b99c3841@lonnie>
Message-ID: <3C0AC398.29447.3388024@localhost>

> YA Baby! Programmable stylesheets!

I don't use ASP, but your niffty trick can also be used with perl and ssi

<!--#set var="qs" value="$QUERY_STRING" --> 
<link rel=STYLESHEET href="style.cgi?<!--#echo var="qs" -->" 
type="text/css">

However, the only thing I can see that's gained over setting the style 
directly through ssi is the supposed "cacheability". But I don't think you are 
getting the cachability that you think you are. The browser still calls it 
everytime I refresh the page. I put a sleep(90) in style.cgi and everytime I 
refresh the page I get a 90 second wait to load the page.  This pause 
happens on IE5.5 and NN4.7 even if they are set to never check for newer 
versions on the server. Obviously they're checking.... In fact, both browsers 
still check for newer versions (and get them) even if .css is used in a static 
linked stylesheet even with check for newer versions set to never. Linked 
stylesheets have other weird behavior regarding tainted values from the 
environment so maybe browsers do not treat them as expected in other 
areas, such as "cachability". All I'm saying is, Check your premise Lon, my 
milage varied.

If the stylesheet does not cache, then

<style type="text/css">
<!--#include virtual="style.cgi" -->
</style>

would be more efficient. In an embedded stylesheet style.cgi can pick up 
the query_string right from the environment with 
QUERY_STRING_UNESCAPED and ASP probably can too. Convenient 
place to pick it up too since HTTP_COOKIE is there too if you want to 
make this effective site wide.

I'm not too certain how many visitors might actually hang around on sites to 
play with a fully programmable stylesheet. I've used a similar ssi trick to 
give visitor's changeable font sizes for blocks of text.

<div style="font-size:<!--#echo var="QUERY_STRING" -->px">
<a href=<!--#echo var="DOCUMENT_NAME" -->?16>larger text</a>
<a href=<!--#echo var="DOCUMENT_NAME" -->?13>default text</a>
<a href=<!--#echo var="DOCUMENT_NAME" -->?10>smaller text</a>

There may be other pluses to your Variable Stylesheet Lon and maybe 
there are ways to cache it with ASP. Keep hammering at it, even if it 
doesn't cache, it still looks useful for someone using ASP.


keith




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Mon Dec  3 02:28:57 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Dec  3 02:28:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <006601c17bc9$76e2c2e0$339c3841@lonnie>
References: <3C0AB5DB.3443.38590CF4@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203002248.0274a4d0@mail.midtown.net>

At 11:00 PM 12/02/2001, Lon wrote:
>Will NN4.x ever go away?

I've wondered about a plot to get all the people together who create the 
yukky viruses to instead attack Netscape 4 browsers and blast them to 
smithereens. That's been my fantasy toward Netscape 4 for quite some time now.

I've been afraid of suggesting such a thing for fear of the FBI storming my 
house and taking my computer, or that my friends who swear by Netscape 4 
will throw rotten tomatoes at me. Not sure which is worse.

;-)

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From joel at spinhead.com  Mon Dec  3 03:11:18 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Mon Dec  3 03:11:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203002248.0274a4d0@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <000001c17bda$ad19a2f0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Shirley, didn't you make the comment once that until we stop designing
for Netscape 4, users won't be motivated to change? I'm beginning to
think we may actually reach that point.

We're seeing more browsers. Mozilla and Opera seem to have little quirks
all their own; nothing really painful, as I recall, but they exist. I
want my content to be usable by as much of the target audience as
possible, so degradability is important, but I wonder if we'll ever
reach the point where there are too many workarounds to be feasible on a
commercial site? At some point, will the 'balance of power' shift from
the users (many of whom are told by their employer what browser to use)
to designers, who just can't fit any more browser/platform checks and
workarounds into their code any more?

Of course, a greater evil would be if we DIDN'T have the diversity - in
spite of a pretty good existing version, I can think of at least one
company I DON'T want owning the entire browser market (especially since
they don't even make their own sites comply with existing standards.)

Many inventors and creators worked to fill a need that didn't exist yet,
except in their own minds. Maybe somehow we really are working toward a
standards compliant web. 

Or maybe it's 1:15 a.m. in SoCal, and somebody's up past bedtime for an
old man.

Joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Shirley Kaiser,
SKDesigns
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:27 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


At 11:00 PM 12/02/2001, Lon wrote:
>Will NN4.x ever go away?

I've wondered about a plot to get all the people together who create the

yukky viruses to instead attack Netscape 4 browsers and blast them to 
smithereens. That's been my fantasy toward Netscape 4 for quite some
time now.

I've been afraid of suggesting such a thing for fear of the FBI storming
my 
house and taking my computer, or that my friends who swear by Netscape 4

will throw rotten tomatoes at me. Not sure which is worse.

;-)

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html


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From aleem at mindless.com  Mon Dec  3 03:11:39 2001
From: aleem at mindless.com (Aleem)
Date: Mon Dec  3 03:11:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <006501c17bc9$76195860$339c3841@lonnie>
Message-ID: <000001c17bd2$330b9430$0100a8c0@UrDaDDY>

LK,
	Here is what I believe would be a client side solution, using
the StyleSheet object:

alert(document.styleSheets[0].cssText);
Would return the entire style sheet

document.styleSheets[0].cssRules[0].style = "color; red"
Would change the text color (Dynamic stylesheets!)

alert(document.styleSheets[0].cssRules[0].style.cssText);
would return the text inside the first style element in the first
stylesheet 
cssRules is supported by IE 5
(http://www.irt.org/xref/StyleSheet.htm#cssRules[])
it does not work on NNav, however.

A work around to this is using the StyleSheet Properties disabled tag
attribute which allows you to disable/enable one or more specific
StyleSheets (Your server-side solution proves to be much better,
ofcourse). 
This tag works on IE4, NN6
(http://www.irt.org/xref/StyleSheet.htm#disabled)

More details on the Style Reference are available at mozzila:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/dom_style_ref.html#998118

In due time this object will be fully supported by the new generation of
browsers and the stylesheet will be open to all kinds of client-side
javascripting and dynamic properties - even the server-side scripting
will benefit from it.

Your solution, however, bypasses all the limitations, but the idea had
been realized some time back, even IE4 (supposedly) implemented support
for the cssRules object.

You can view a working example at the bottom of this page:
http://developer.apple.com/internet/javascript/styles.html#example
(note this is not the traditional JS changing
document.object.style.attribute = value; rather, it directly references
the styleSheet/style object)

- Aleem


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of lon.kraemer
Sent: December 3, 2001 2:44 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?

Hi Aleem,


> I may be wrong, but isn't this concept applicable using javascript and
> DOM style/styleSheet objects, which also save a trip back to the
server
> since they are client side ? If the .js file and .css files are both
> external, then it amounts to pretty much the same as what you have
> suggested save a trip back to the server.
>
> Once again, I've joined the discussion late, so correct me if I'm
wrong.

No, not wrong, but the technique in discussion is most definitely
server-side. I certainly would be interested in any similar technique
you've
developed using client-side scripting.

> Thanks,
> Aleem

LK




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Dec  3 04:26:44 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Dec  3 04:26:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
Message-ID: <OF3723F604.BC8F803E-ON80256B17.0038E0A9@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi There

If you're Apache/XSSI, then you can parse .css files as XSSI
and run it all through as variables there without worrying about
the extension.

Have a look at
http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/4415/index.html#comment16681

(the main article there is my Perl translation of Adrian's system)

It does reduce maintenance, as now I only have one stylesheet
to maintain, rather than three. If I had the time, I'd put the print
stylesheet in there too...

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


> Here's a quicky sample: http://www.famnets.com/varcsstest.asp

hi lon

very nice technique

i've seen several ways of letting users choose styles (including one that
uses alternate style sheets, i.e. does not involve a trip back to the
server), but your method does seem to offer a great deal of flexibility

i would've thought that perhaps some older browsers might require the
linked style sheet to have the ".css" extension, but it does work in
windows netscape 4.04 and 4.75 (the only older css-capable browsers i've
got), so it would appear you've got something there


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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From george at themidwestgroup.com  Mon Dec  3 04:33:08 2001
From: george at themidwestgroup.com (George Palframan)
Date: Mon Dec  3 04:33:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 crashing but not 4.76??? [addendum]
Message-ID: <4D518FD37A77D411982E00D0B782DE88233A35@THEAKSTON>

Nice one!

-----Original Message-----
From: sfmalo [mailto:sfmalo at msn.com]
Sent: 30 November 2001 09:29
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 crashing but not 4.76??? [addendum]


George, sorry!

I gave you some wrong info. The quote marks surround "_blank", not what I
just sent you. So it should read <..........Id=106 target="_blank">

It's getting too late and I wasn't careful enough. So sorry.

Sharon

From: "George Palframan" <george at themidwestgroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 3:55 AM

> Hi everyone,
> This line of code is causing Netscape 4.7 to crash instantly but is fine
in
> Netscape 4.76.
> Does any one know why?
> 
> <CENTER><A
>
href="http://www.adcast365.com/admin/ADCASTREDIRECT.asp?Id=106"target=_blank
> ><IMG
>
src="http://www.adcast365.com/Images/Mid-Wilts-Football/sponsored-by-midwest
> .jpg" border=0></A></CENTER>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com



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From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 04:56:08 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Mon Dec  3 04:56:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <20011203071237.7FBB3877@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011203105725.4468.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
use them?
The one bonus about ALAs approach is you can select
preferred designs, and let them choose between them,
whereas giving the user total control, even if only over
colours, could be rather messy. It's all up to the designer
really.

Oh yeah, and I don't know how to set the content-type
header in ASP (though I do in Cold fusion now, pity I don't
know any other Cold fusion), to do it in PHP is 
header("Content-type: text/css");
pretty logical, really.

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From alastair at cubeit.co.uk  Mon Dec  3 05:08:33 2001
From: alastair at cubeit.co.uk (Alastair Murdoch)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:08:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <20011203105725.4468.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GEEKJBLDIEOIJDCEAAPJEEDGCNAA.alastair@cubeit.co.uk>

content type in ASP is:

Response.ContentType = "text/css"

so not much different from cf or php :)

cheers

alastair

 -------------------------------
A l a s t a i r   M u r d o c h
c o n s u l t a n t  @  c u b e

    [t:]  01292 27 00 99
    [m:]  07974 323 551
    [w:] www.cubeit.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Lachlan Cannon
Sent: 03 December 2001 10:57
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
use them?
The one bonus about ALAs approach is you can select
preferred designs, and let them choose between them,
whereas giving the user total control, even if only over
colours, could be rather messy. It's all up to the designer
really.

Oh yeah, and I don't know how to set the content-type
header in ASP (though I do in Cold fusion now, pity I don't
know any other Cold fusion), to do it in PHP is 
header("Content-type: text/css");
pretty logical, really.

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com

---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Dec  3 05:27:22 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:27:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
Message-ID: <OFA607301B.A9483FC7-ON80256B17.003EB0B4@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


>Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
>switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
>stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
>user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
>but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
>use them?

Depends on your audience I think - the more aware of the technicalities
the users are, the more you can give them access to (and with less
explanation).

So for a general audience, you might give them an "Enlarge/Reduce
text" option. For a web-dev audience such as ALA's or evolt's, you'd
give them a much wider range of elements to play with. And what you
might do is have a nice preview which lets you experiment a bit before you
saved a preference.

Of course, you'd need to explain what all the non-standard elements do...

Cheers
Martin

--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Mon Dec  3 05:30:09 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:30:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] QT Panorama Problem?
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAWG+aF/KUEaJy8k/dNh6d8KNAAAQAAAAMsFqLhGpxU+wS0E6TWLiIwEAAAAA@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAiW1znR7d0RGQfURFU1QAAWKFAAAQAAAA74UzJd4YkEGd5gMCZcen5AEAAAAA@web-designers.co.uk>

Mustapha Ali wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Richard......I can't see the panaorama animation 
> either......i'm using IE 5.5 on Windows 2000 Professional, 
> 16MB video card.......i can access the tour though.....

I think Mathew Blanchard had the idea: although my code would work
pre-IE 5.5, it now needs an OBJECT as well as EMBED tag.

Could you try now?

http://www.web-designers.co.uk/nas/

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 





From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Mon Dec  3 05:33:21 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:33:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] QT Panorama Problem?
In-Reply-To: <04c901c17b29$f2ffa3c0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAiW1znR7d0RGQfURFU1QAAWKFAAAQAAAA/nQ2tZ+P8U6sijVde+iCRQEAAAAA@web-designers.co.uk>

Richard Bennett suggested:

> -----Original Message-----
> It worked ok on win2k IE5.5 & NS4.7

Excellent.

> But have you tested it with a modem? I think it will take a 
> long time to load.

Yup. 348kb ~:0(  Down from 2.8MB as original...

I'll try reducing the quality of the JPEG compression further.

> I did notice the picture was pretty dark, 
> and it was hard to see exactly what was in the room 
> sometimes, maybe that's what they mean?

No, they're on AOL and I suspect it's the MS "drop support for QT"
issue.

If you think the image is dark, you should have seen how dark the
warehouse was!

Thanks very much.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 





From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Mon Dec  3 05:36:56 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:36:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] QT Panorama Problem?
In-Reply-To: <000501c17b2a$4857a1b0$430286d9@nsg.local>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAiW1znR7d0RGQfURFU1QAAWKFAAAQAAAASExkXE5N7EmC2gtqOrLikgEAAAAA@web-designers.co.uk>

Mike Townend suggested:

> -----Original Message-----
> I can see it.... Win2k, ie 6.....
> 
> Does the client have the correct plugin/version installed?

I doubt it, and despite the link to the QT test URL, I think that a
suggestion that Mathew Blanchard made was correct: I used EMBED but not
OBJECT so the browser does not suggest installation.

See http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/tutorials/activex.html

There may also be an issue with AOL users - like the Client - and I
found this on a web site:

"AOL Tip   
AOL Users - Follow these instructions if you are having trouble viewing
the Java or Quicktime Virtual Tours: 
 1. Go to My AOL>Preferences>WWW>Web Graphics>. 
 2. Deselect Use Compressed Graphics. 
 3. Select Security (My AOL> Preferences>WWW>Security). 
 4. Set Security to Medium or Lower. 
 5. Go back and view or download the virtual tours. 
  
 (Note: If your AOL graphics preference is set to use compressed
graphics (the default setting), the virtual tour files will not
download. Follow the instructions above for an easy fix to this
problem.) "
 
> Test URL is http://www.web-designers.co.uk/nas and the 
> virtual tour can then be seen from clicking the panorama at the top.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 





From george at themidwestgroup.com  Mon Dec  3 05:56:48 2001
From: george at themidwestgroup.com (George Palframan)
Date: Mon Dec  3 05:56:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 crashing but not 4.76???
Message-ID: <4D518FD37A77D411982E00D0B782DE88233A36@THEAKSTON>

hi,
I have ammended the code to be:

<CENTER><A href="http://www.adcast365.com/admin/ADCASTREDIRECT.asp?Id=106"
target="_blank"><IMG
src="http://www.adcast365.com/Images/Mid-Wilts-Football/sponsored-by-midwest
.jpg" border="0"></A></CENTER>



but Netscape 4.7 is still crashing instantly!
The code is generated from the server which feeds an external javascript
with the above code.
the code which gets put into the page is:


<!-- AdCast Start-->
<script language="JavaScript"> var code = '';
document.write('<s' + 'cript
src="http://ruddles/adcast365/admin/ADCASTBUILDSCRIPT.asp?Cat=60";>')
document.write('</' + 's' + 'cript>');
</script>
<script language="JavaScript">document.write(code);</script>
<!-- AdCast End -->

so would it be the way that this jscript is implemented that crashes out
4.7? 


cheers,
George.




-----Original Message-----
From: sfmalo [mailto:sfmalo at msn.com]
Sent: 30 November 2001 09:24
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 crashing but not 4.76???


Hi, George - sorry for the lateness of this reply, but just went thru a
bunch of mail and got to yours.

What I'm seeing is that, yes, you need a space between id=106 and the
opening quote mark for target. But you also need a closing quote mark just
after blank. So, it would read < ............. id=106 "target=_blank">

Would also suggest you include alt="blah, blah description of image blah"
followed by title="blah, blah description blah" for the sake of Netscape 6.x
which doesn't read alt tag info.

Hope this solved your problem.

Sharon

From: "George Palframan" <george at themidwestgroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 3:55 AM

> Hi everyone,
> This line of code is causing Netscape 4.7 to crash instantly but is fine
in
> Netscape 4.76.
> Does any one know why?
> 
> <CENTER><A
>
href="http://www.adcast365.com/admin/ADCASTREDIRECT.asp?Id=106"target=_blank
> ><IMG
>
src="http://www.adcast365.com/Images/Mid-Wilts-Football/sponsored-by-midwest
> .jpg" border=0></A></CENTER>
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> George.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com



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From cvos at netpaths.net  Mon Dec  3 06:22:56 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Mon Dec  3 06:22:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Variable Stylesheets
References: <20011203071224.8F5BC51F49@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C0B6EED.53B1CD1@netpaths.net>

This is a PHP script I use to generate conditional stylesheets & DTD
headers based on user agent. All you have to do is create specific
(external) stylesheets based on browsers.  This is setup for the 4 major
types:
IE/NN on Mac/Win platforms

Feel free to use and enjoy!



/* begin DTD header creation */

  function _brfind($component){
   global $HTTP_USER_AGENT;
   $result = stristr($HTTP_USER_AGENT,$component);
   return $result;
  }

  function get_doctype(){
   if ( $this->_brfind('MSIE 4') or $this->_brfind('MSIE 5') ) {
    if ( $this->_brfind('Mac') ) {
     $style = ( $this->_brfind('MSIE 5') ) ? '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">':'stylemac.css';
    } elseif ( $this->_brfind('Win') ) {
     $style = '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN">';
    }
   } elseif ( !$this->_brfind('MSIE') ) {
    if ( $this->_brfind('Mozilla/5') or $this->_brfind('Mozilla/6') ) {
     $style = '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd">';
    } elseif ( $this->_brfind('Mozilla/4') ) {
     if ( $this->_brfind('Mac') ) {
      $style = '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2
Final//EN">';
     } elseif ( $this->_brfind('Win') ) {
      $style = '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN">';
     } else {
      $style = '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN">';
     }
    }
   }
   return $style;
  }
/*end DTD header creation */

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
____________________________________________
web site design  |  programming  |  search engine marketing





From mailserver at nildram.net  Mon Dec  3 06:51:16 2001
From: mailserver at nildram.net (mail server)
Date: Mon Dec  3 06:51:16 2001
Subject: FW: [thelist] QT Panorama Problem?
Message-ID: <41D348CD8E13D411973100A0CC58AA9073E92A@exchange2.nildram.co.uk>

As a result of our constant monitoring of mail, we noticed that a small
number of email messages, including the one below, were not delivered as a
result of a short outage. No mail has been lost, and we apologise for the
delay that this has caused.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard H. Morris [mailto:richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk]
Sent: 03 December 2001 11:31
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] QT Panorama Problem?


Mustapha Ali wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Richard......I can't see the panaorama animation
> either......i'm using IE 5.5 on Windows 2000 Professional,
> 16MB video card.......i can access the tour though.....

I think Mathew Blanchard had the idea: although my code would work
pre-IE 5.5, it now needs an OBJECT as well as EMBED tag.

Could you try now?

http://www.web-designers.co.uk/nas/

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From list-matt at reprocessed.org  Mon Dec  3 06:52:11 2001
From: list-matt at reprocessed.org (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon Dec  3 06:52:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN6.1 Quirks
In-Reply-To: <F114dTMVwVn20lbhsKd00010a1d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20011203125203-r01010800-2ff4f579-0921-0108@10.0.0.15>

On 2/12/01 at 11:41 pm, burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid) wrote:

> Hey Listees :
> 
> Got an interesting situation in NN 6.1 at
> (http://members.evolt.org/burhankhalid). The problem is at the bottom
> quote closer, in IE, it expands the bottom box to contain the Quote
> Admin buttons, but in NN 6.1, it does not. Anyone have any suggestions
> as to a remedy?

I think the problem lies with your stylesheet - you've given an absolute
height of 30px, and IE5/Mac and NN6 are honouring that...

Matt


-- 
   Matt Patterson | Typographer
   <matt at reprocessed.org> | http://reprocessed.org/



From mailserver at nildram.net  Mon Dec  3 07:10:22 2001
From: mailserver at nildram.net (mail server)
Date: Mon Dec  3 07:10:22 2001
Subject: FW: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
Message-ID: <41D348CD8E13D411973100A0CC58AA9073E940@exchange2.nildram.co.uk>

As a result of our constant monitoring of mail, we noticed that a small
number of email messages, including the one below, were not delivered as a
result of a short outage. No mail has been lost, and we apologise for the
delay that this has caused.

-----Original Message-----
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
[mailto:martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com]
Sent: 03 December 2001 11:28
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------



To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:  Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


>Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
>switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
>stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
>user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
>but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
>use them?

Depends on your audience I think - the more aware of the technicalities
the users are, the more you can give them access to (and with less
explanation).

So for a general audience, you might give them an "Enlarge/Reduce
text" option. For a web-dev audience such as ALA's or evolt's, you'd
give them a much wider range of elements to play with. And what you
might do is have a nice preview which lets you experiment a bit before you
saved a preference.

Of course, you'd need to explain what all the non-standard elements do...

Cheers
Martin

--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  3 07:47:50 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Mon Dec  3 07:47:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F960sca0ZkfzDskqC5E000001f6@hotmail.com>

Hey there Evolters :

  Found an excellent resource for CSS templates. Thought I might share.

http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/boxes.html


Regards,
Burhan Khalid

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 08:28:29 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 08:28:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Onclick counts
In-Reply-To: <F960sca0ZkfzDskqC5E000001f6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHKEFDCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

hi peeps,

just a quick question - has anyone got any recommendations on counting how
many times an image has been used - ive used various ways in the past from
javascript to asp - wondering how other people count how many times an image
has been clicked.

cheers

paul




From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  3 08:51:57 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Mon Dec  3 08:51:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <3C0AC398.29447.3388024@localhost>
Message-ID: <OE14NkzCV4WR457yQU50000196e@hotmail.com>

From: "Keith" <cache at dowebs.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


> However, the only thing I can see that's gained over setting the style
> directly through ssi is the supposed "cacheability". But I don't think you
are
> getting the cachability that you think you are. The browser still calls it
> everytime I refresh the page. I put a sleep(90) in style.cgi and everytime
I
> refresh the page I get a 90 second wait to load the page.  This pause
> happens on IE5.5 and NN4.7 even if they are set to never check for newer
> versions on the server. Obviously they're checking.... In fact, both
browsers
> still check for newer versions (and get them) even if .css is used in a
static
> linked stylesheet even with check for newer versions set to never.

Have you tried to use an "Expires" (and/or "Cache-Control") HTTP header?
(and for CGI/ASP, you may also want to handle "If-Modified-Since", if the
script execution takes long).

I actually had the impression that the browser (IE) tends to "over cache"
linked stylesheet and JavaScript files. I remember several incidents when
just clicking "refresh" wouldn't give me the updated CSS/JS files.





From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Mon Dec  3 08:52:11 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Mon Dec  3 08:52:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Onclick counts
References: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHKEFDCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
Message-ID: <001301c17c00$f966e980$0100007f@mar>

To my mined that are 2 quick questions :)
one for server side and onother for ckient one (thou I don't know for what
perpouse the last should be used - perhaps for games and learning?)
If we are interested from the server point of view, we can use CGI, PHP,ASP,
Server Log analising and other methods that are used for commer counters
For the second task we can use JavaScript onClick
Regards,
Maryanna Nesina

> hi peeps,
>
> just a quick question - has anyone got any recommendations on counting how
> many times an image has been used - ive used various ways in the past from
> javascript to asp - wondering how other people count how many times an
image
> has been clicked.
>
> cheers
>
> paul
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From amccoy at goodmanct.com  Mon Dec  3 09:07:06 2001
From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan)
Date: Mon Dec  3 09:07:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Droopy Text Input Box
Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B3360A8F6B@admin.admin.goodmanct.com>

Thanks! That did the trick. Still had to add a spacer gif over the input
box (thanks, Tony!) but looks great now.

Alan
_______________________
To do is to be. - Voltaire
To be is to do. - Descartes
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Blessing [mailto:webguy at mail.rit.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:52 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Droopy Text Input Box
> 
> 
> Try reformatting the HTML as such:
> 
> <table height="50" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
> <form name="form1" action="modules.php" method="post">
> <input type="hidden" name="name" value="Search">
> <input type="hidden" name="file" value="index">
> <input type="hidden" name="op" value="modload">
> <input type="hidden" name="action" value="search">
> <input type="hidden" name="overview" value="1">
> <input type="hidden" name="active_stories" value="1">
> <input type="hidden" name="bool" value="AND">
> <input type="hidden" name="stories_cat" value="">
> <input type="hidden" name="stories_topics" value="">
> <tr>
> <td align="right" valign="top"><img
> src="themes/PNN/images/hdr-searchbutton.jpg"></td>
> <td valign="top"><input class="search" NAME="q" TYPE="text" 
> VALUE=""></td>
> <td valign="top"><input type="image"
> src="themes/PNN/images/hdr-gobutton.jpg" border="0"></td>
> </tr>
> </form>
> </table>
> 
> If your table cells have one "piece" of data in them (i.e. 
> image, textbox
> etc.) try to keep the <TD><stuff></TD> format going, reducing 
> whitespace and
> the chance for formatting issues.  I moved your hidden inputs 
> under the
> <form...> so that there was less of a chance for error in the 
> offending
> table cell. The above code works perfectly for me (IE6).
> 
> Chris Blessing
> webguy at mail.rit.edu
> http://www.330i.net
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of McCoy, Alan
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:29 AM
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: [thelist] Droopy Text Input Box
> >
> >
> > I'm having a problem with a text box in a form at
> > http://64.224.99.12/index.php. It's the search box at the 
> top right of
> > the page. As you can see, the input box droops down a bit 
> below the top
> > light blue bar. It should be vertically centered in that bar.
> >
> > Here's the code in question:
> >
> > <table height="50" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
> > <form name="form1" action="modules.php" method="post"><tr>
> > <td align="right" valign="top"><img
> > src="themes/PNN/images/hdr-searchbutton.jpg"></td>
> > <td valign="top">
> > <input type="hidden" name="name" value="Search">
> > <input type="hidden" name="file" value="index">
> > <input type="hidden" name="op" value="modload">
> > <input type="hidden" name="action" value="search">
> > <input type="hidden" name="overview" value="1">
> > <input type="hidden" name="active_stories" value="1">
> > <input type="hidden" name="bool" value="AND">
> > <input type="hidden" name="stories_cat" value="">
> > <input type="hidden" name="stories_topics" value="">
> > <input class="search" NAME="q" TYPE="text" VALUE="">
> > <input type="image" src="themes/PNN/images/hdr-gobutton.jpg"
> > border="0"></td>
> > </tr></form>
> > </table>
> >
> > Any idea what's making that input box sag?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Alan
> > _______________________
> > To do is to be. - Voltaire
> > To be is to do. - Descartes
> > Do be do be do. - Sinatra
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 09:14:39 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Mon Dec  3 09:14:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript problem
Message-ID: <20011203151556.49037.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey everyone,

After staring at this for an hour trying to figure out what
was wrong, I throw myself at your mercy... or
javascriptliness or whatever it's called.

I'm trying to set up my own web based mail system (for
kicks and because I can), and I'm working on the client
side half at the moment. I'm using the following function
to make sure all the necessary fields are filled in,
correctly (or as correctly as I can figure out how to check
for), yet for some reason if the to field is filled in,
even if it doesn't meet the rules and nothing else does it
still submits the form.

function checkMail() {
var errors="";
var errorstart="Please make sure you have completed the
e-mail form correctly.\n The following errors were
detected:\n\n";
var
emailto=document.forms["mailform"].elements["emailto"].value;
var
subject=document.forms["mailform"].elements["subject"].value;
var body=document.forms["mailform"].elements["body"].value;
if (emailto == ""){
	errors+="You must supply an address in the \'to\'
field.\n";
}
else if (emailto.indexof('@') == -1 || emailto.indexof('.')
== -1) {
	errors+="You must supply only valid e-mail addresses.\n";
}
if (subject == "") {
	errors+="You must supply a subject.\n"
}
if (body == "") {
	errors+="You must supply a message to send.\n";
}
if (errors != "") {
alert (errorstart+errors);
return false;
}
else {
return true;
}
}

Oh, and improvements to the email checking are welcome too.
;)

TIA,

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From djc at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec  3 09:27:13 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Dec  3 09:27:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Evolt survey
Message-ID: <3C0B99AA.8040206@members.evolt.org>

Hi folks -

Evolt.org needs your help! Although evolt.org has always been a place 
for web developers *by* web developers, we'd like to solicit some 
feedback from the general evolt membership to see how we're doing, new 
features you may like to see, or suggestions you may have to continue 
evolt.org's place as the premier web development community on the 
Internet. With that, I'm happy to announce the first ever evolt.org survey!

Have your say - evolt.org survey:
http://www.evolt.org/article/announce/27/18041/index.html

What we're looking for is some honest feedback from you the people that 
make evolt.org what it is. Although we'd like to think that everything 
is perfect with our community, thats obviously not the case.. And who 
better to let us know how to make it better than the people who use it?

The survey is only about 40 questions long and shouldn't take more than 
5 minutes of your time. However, that 5 minutes will go a long ways 
towards making evolt.org a better place, so I'd highly encourage *each* 
of you to make your opinions known and take the survey!!

Thanks to everyone on theforum list( 
http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/theforum ) for their hard work, 
and a big thanks to evolt.org member Ryan Finley for his *very* generous 
support of evolt.org through the use his survey website, 
http://www.surveymonkey.com :)

Thanks again for your feedback and continued support of evolt.org, and 
feel free to forward this on to any relevant parties :)

.djc.
- evolt.org grand poo-bah -




From David at softv.net  Mon Dec  3 09:28:42 2001
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Mon Dec  3 09:28:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript problem
Message-ID: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB7C75BE@IMAIL>

Hi,

One possible problem is that JavaScript is CaSe SeNsItIvE. 
The line:

else if (emailto.indexof('@') == -1 || emailto.indexof('.')

should be:

else if ((emailto.indexOf('@') == -1) || (emailto.indexOf('.') == -1))

<%
David Mitchell
Web/Software Developer
david at sofTV.net
sofTV.net
www.sofTV.net
613.729.6400 x268
%>
www.IceRadio.ca
"Canada's Best Music on the Web"


-----Original Message-----
From: Lachlan Cannon [mailto:tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:16 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Javascript problem


Hey everyone,

After staring at this for an hour trying to figure out what
was wrong, I throw myself at your mercy... or
javascriptliness or whatever it's called.

I'm trying to set up my own web based mail system (for
kicks and because I can), and I'm working on the client
side half at the moment. I'm using the following function
to make sure all the necessary fields are filled in,
correctly (or as correctly as I can figure out how to check
for), yet for some reason if the to field is filled in,
even if it doesn't meet the rules and nothing else does it
still submits the form.

function checkMail() {
var errors="";
var errorstart="Please make sure you have completed the
e-mail form correctly.\n The following errors were
detected:\n\n";
var
emailto=document.forms["mailform"].elements["emailto"].value;
var
subject=document.forms["mailform"].elements["subject"].value;
var body=document.forms["mailform"].elements["body"].value;
if (emailto == ""){
	errors+="You must supply an address in the \'to\'
field.\n";
}
else if (emailto.indexof('@') == -1 || emailto.indexof('.')
== -1) {
	errors+="You must supply only valid e-mail addresses.\n";
}
if (subject == "") {
	errors+="You must supply a subject.\n"
}
if (body == "") {
	errors+="You must supply a message to send.\n";
}
if (errors != "") {
alert (errorstart+errors);
return false;
}
else {
return true;
}
}

Oh, and improvements to the email checking are welcome too.
;)

TIA,

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com

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From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 10:03:55 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:03:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
Message-ID: <200112031603.fB3G3sZf013667@leo.evolt.org>

ok, let's say i have a Flash logo on my site... and let's say that 
Flash logo can, obviously, sometimes be disabled by the user (no 
plug-in, refusal to let plug-ins run, etc.) and let's say i want to 
ensure a static image shows in its place and it gracefully 
degrades... and let's say i'd really like to see it validate...

where can i go to see that type of code in place?




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 10:14:19 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:14:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031603.fB3G3sZf013667@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHGEFFCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

hmmmmm....i know how to show something different if they haven't got flash:

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
// in this section we set up the content to be placed dynamically on the
page
// customize movie tags and alternate html content below

if (!useRedirect) {		// if dynamic embedding is turned on
	if(hasRightVersion) {	// if we've detected an acceptable version
		var oeTags = '<OBJECT
CLASSID="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"'
		+ 'WIDTH="415" HEIGHT="55"'
		+
'CODEBASE="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.c
ab">'
		+ '<PARAM NAME="MOVIE" VALUE="images/SomeFlash.swf">'
		+ '<PARAM NAME="PLAY" VALUE="true">'
		+ '<PARAM NAME="LOOP" VALUE="true">'
		+ '<PARAM NAME="QUALITY" VALUE="high">'
		+ '<PARAM NAME="MENU" VALUE="false">'
		+ '<EMBED SRC="images/SomeFlash.swf"'
		+ 'WIDTH="415" HEIGHT="55"'
		+ 'PLAY="true"'
		+ 'LOOP="true"'
		+ 'QUALITY="high"'
		+ 'MENU="false"'
		+ 'TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash"'
		+
'PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod
_Version=ShockwaveFlash">'
		+ '</EMBED>'
		+ '</OBJECT>';

		document.write(oeTags); 	// embed the flash movie
	} else {	// flash is too old or we can't detect the plugin
		var alternateContent = '<a href=SomePage.asp><img
src=\"images/SomeImage.gif\" border=0 width=415 height=55>'	// height, width
required!
			+ '</a>';

		document.write(alternateContent);	// insert non-flash content
	}
}

// -->
</SCRIPT>

does that help?

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of aardvark
Sent: 03 December 2001 16:05
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif



ok, let's say i have a Flash logo on my site... and let's say that
Flash logo can, obviously, sometimes be disabled by the user (no
plug-in, refusal to let plug-ins run, etc.) and let's say i want to
ensure a static image shows in its place and it gracefully
degrades... and let's say i'd really like to see it validate...

where can i go to see that type of code in place?


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Mon Dec  3 10:21:17 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:21:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <001701c17ae3$e29401c0$b99c3841@lonnie> <3C0ACBCE.208BDEB6@webtuitive.com> <006d01c17baa$4e8859a0$5e9f3841@lonnie>
Message-ID: <3C0BA6C7.9D132736@webtuitive.com>

"lon.kraemer" wrote:

> > I've been doing this (in JSP, not ASP) for the last year and a half,
> > though with the minor difference that instead of using the LINK tag
> > I write the style section directly into the page (using includes).
> 
> Wouldn't this impede the implementation/advantage of caching?

How big's a style sheet (typically)? -- adding a few hundred bytes 
to each page doesn't seem like a big deal to me. 

I thought the benefit of external style sheets was maintainability - 
the fact that a browser can cache a stylesheet just offset the added 
network load ...  

? Am I totally off base here?
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From gnarly at punkass.com  Mon Dec  3 10:24:49 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:24:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
References: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHGEFFCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
Message-ID: <014701c17c18$132bee30$0100a8c0@Comp2>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> hmmmmm....i know how to show something different if they haven't got
flash:
<snip!>
> does that help?

Up to a point - that being the point where the user has JS turned off :-)

Lets say I wanted to achieve the same thing, but server side, preferably
ASP. Any ideas?

Olly.





From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 10:32:36 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:32:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <014701c17c18$132bee30$0100a8c0@Comp2>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEFGCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

oh god - not the javascript thing - b****x

there is away of detecting flash in asp - il have a look for it

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Olly Hodgson
Sent: 03 December 2001 16:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> hmmmmm....i know how to show something different if they haven't got
flash:
<snip!>
> does that help?

Up to a point - that being the point where the user has JS turned off :-)

Lets say I wanted to achieve the same thing, but server side, preferably
ASP. Any ideas?

Olly.



---------------------------------------
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From mike at cfnews.co.uk  Mon Dec  3 10:32:54 2001
From: mike at cfnews.co.uk (Mike Townend)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:32:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <014701c17c18$132bee30$0100a8c0@Comp2>
Message-ID: <358AB76ACB426A43B8D134872505A3E20CB4AB@saturn.nsg.local>

Get the flash plugin/js/whatever to goto a special page (on the first
page they come to) with a url params like ?flash=true

Then get asp/cf to check for a url parameter... If it exists set an
application variable to reflect this... Then on the site pages you can
do an if statement to determine whether or not to display and image or
flash file

HTH




-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Olly Hodgson
Sent: 03 December 2001 16:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> hmmmmm....i know how to show something different if they haven't got
flash:
<snip!>
> does that help?

Up to a point - that being the point where the user has JS turned off
:-)

Lets say I wanted to achieve the same thing, but server side, preferably
ASP. Any ideas?

Olly.



---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From emailus at carbonchip.com  Mon Dec  3 10:34:48 2001
From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:34:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <014701c17c18$132bee30$0100a8c0@Comp2>
Message-ID: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECCENFDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>

olly

if you are going serverside, try www.browserhawk.com : claims to be the best
around. i've never used it and can't as thus endorse it, as i've got more
skills in quantum physics than server side "stuff".

hthy.

banrett
banrett at carbonchip.com


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Olly Hodgson
Sent: 03 December 2001 16:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> hmmmmm....i know how to show something different if they haven't got
flash:
<snip!>
> does that help?

Up to a point - that being the point where the user has JS turned off :-)

Lets say I wanted to achieve the same thing, but server side, preferably
ASP. Any ideas?

Olly.



---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From gozz at gozz.com  Mon Dec  3 10:40:57 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:40:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031603.fB3G3sZf013667@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200112031603.fB3G3sZf013667@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p04310107b8314bc78699@[192.168.1.100]>

>in its place and it gracefully
>degrades... and let's say i'd really like to see it validate...
>
>where can i go to see that type of code in place?

Look in the HTML folder in your Flash application folder ... or just 
choose one of the ad banner options in Publish settings and modify 
the published html. The only problem with the resulting 
html/JavaScript that causes display problems is for (or maybe one) 
older browser may choke on the

document.write('</script>');

line ... change it to

document.write('</scr';
document.write('ipt>');

... add a few quotes around some tag attributes, and I believe it 
will validate just fine ... minus the proprietary browser tags needed 
to display Flash in the first place.

-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272

__________________________________________



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Mon Dec  3 10:50:02 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:50:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B684B@nyexchange01.summithq.com>

hiya!

to do this don't you just need to choose the correct publish setting out of
flash? if you publish out a gif with the right option, flash will write out
the code for you, right?

it will add the:
<NOSCRIPT><IMG SRC="mygif.gif" WIDTH=700 HEIGHT=400 usemap="#about_data"
BORDER=0></NOSCRIPT>
<NOEMBED><IMG SRC="mygif.gif" WIDTH=700 HEIGHT=400 usemap="#about_data"
BORDER=0></NOEMBED>

or am i misunderstanding the question??

hth,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 10:54:34 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 10:54:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B684B@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEFHCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

apparetly you can do it this way:
http://www.flashkit.com/tutorials/Utilities/Detectin-Arran_Sc-151/index.shtm
l

in the flash file and then use a meta refresh

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Fortune Elkins
Sent: 03 December 2001 16:46
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


hiya!

to do this don't you just need to choose the correct publish setting out of
flash? if you publish out a gif with the right option, flash will write out
the code for you, right?

it will add the:
<NOSCRIPT><IMG SRC="mygif.gif" WIDTH=700 HEIGHT=400 usemap="#about_data"
BORDER=0></NOSCRIPT>
<NOEMBED><IMG SRC="mygif.gif" WIDTH=700 HEIGHT=400 usemap="#about_data"
BORDER=0></NOEMBED>

or am i misunderstanding the question??

hth,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 11:05:52 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:05:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B684B@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <200112031705.fB3H5pZf018224@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Fortune Elkins <fortune_elkins at summithq.com>
[...]
> to do this don't you just need to choose the correct publish setting
> out of flash? if you publish out a gif with the right option, flash
> will write out the code for you, right?
[...]

nope, Flash's HTML is pretty poor, even after you fix it...

here, everyone humor me and try something...

if you have IE5.x+ running, set your security prefs to prompt you 
*before* running any ActiveX controls...

then go to http://quantumcms.com/

when it asks if you want to allow ActiveX controls and plug-ins to 
run, say 'No'...

note how nothing appears in the Flash movies' place (i can easily 
fix the height with a spacer)...

however, if you go to 
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2829073,00.h
tml (as an example) and click no, a static .gif appears instead of a 
Flash movie... clicking yes would show the Flash movie...

so, how can i get that sort of thing to happen on the site above 
(which is undergoing a major overhaul)?




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 11:05:55 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:05:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <p04310107b8314bc78699@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <200112031603.fB3G3sZf013667@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112031705.fB3H5rZf018225@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
>
> >in its place and it gracefully
> >degrades... and let's say i'd really like to see it validate...
> >
> >where can i go to see that type of code in place?
> 
> Look in the HTML folder in your Flash application folder ... or just
> choose one of the ad banner options in Publish settings and modify the
> published html. The only problem with the resulting html/JavaScript
> that causes display problems is for (or maybe one) older browser may
> choke on the
[...]

problem is, the publish settings out of Flash are pretty crappy... 
that's the problem i'm trying to fix...




From mbiscay at skyminds.net  Mon Dec  3 11:12:50 2001
From: mbiscay at skyminds.net (Matt Biscay)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:12:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip: X-browsers layers
Message-ID: <009c01c17c1c$7d9aa5a0$a089f8c1@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Evolters,

Until recently, my site wouldn't display its layers correctly under
Netscape/Mozilla and the result in IE was slightly different from Opera (my
favorite browser). The trouble is that I did not want to use Javascript but
mere PHP.

Here is the tip to use layers with the majority of browsers:
- for IE: use the <div> tag.
- for Opera, the <div> tag also works. Yet, you have to tweak the values and
adjust them manually
- for Netscape < 5.0 (N4.7X), use the <layer> tag.
- for Netscape > 5.0 (N6.0), use the <span> tag.

Here is what I did:

 1) Get browser name

    $Browser_Name = strtok($HTTP_USER_AGENT, "/");
    $Browser_Version = strtok(" ");


2) Define browsers

    //IE
    if(ereg("MSIE", $HTTP_USER_AGENT))
    {
   $Browser_Name = "MSIE";
   $Browser_Version = strtok("MSIE");
   $Browser_Version = strtok(" ");
   $Browser_Version = strtok(";");
   }

    // other browsers

3) use the right layer with the right browser:

if ($Browser_Name=="MSIE")
    {
    <div id="ie_layer" style="position:absolute; left:10px; top:85px;
width:745px; height:158px; z-index:1">
    }
elseif ($Browser_Name=="Mozilla" & $Browser_Version < 5.0)
    {
    <layer id="nn4_layer" left="5" top="100" width="124" height="158"
z-index="2">
    }
elseif ($Browser_Name=="Mozilla" & $Browser_Version >= 5.0)
    {
    <span id="nn6_layer" style="position:absolute; left:5px; top:100px;
width:124px; height:158px; z-index:2">
    }


That's it ! Hope it will help some of you.
It works fine on http://www.skyminds.net/

-----
Matt Biscay
mbiscay at skyminds.net

|--------------------------------------
| http://www.skyminds.net/
|--------------------------------------





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 11:14:21 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:14:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <014701c17c18$132bee30$0100a8c0@Comp2>
Message-ID: <200112031714.fB3HEKZf018912@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at punkass.com>
[...] 
> Lets say I wanted to achieve the same thing, but server side,
> preferably ASP. Any ideas?

it's worth noting that i don't want a server-side solution... my 
problem comes *after* the page has been served, and is partly 
based on security settings -- the browser *can* run Flash, but the 
user has it disabled... therefore, even a check through browscap.ini 
or any other method would have said the browser is good to show 
Flash....

so, i don't need what Olly needs, i need a client-side solution that 
degrades, preferrably with no script...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 11:17:30 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:17:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEFHCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B684B@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <200112031717.fB3HHTZf019118@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
>
> apparetly you can do it this way:
> http://www.flashkit.com/tutorials/Utilities/Detectin-Arran_Sc-151/inde
> x.shtm l
> 
> in the flash file and then use a meta refresh

done that technique before, and i usually use the Flash file to 
forward the user instead of meta refresh...

however, in this case, i don't want to use a page refresh, i want to 
handle for seurity settings...




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Mon Dec  3 11:22:19 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:22:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript problem
References: <20011203151556.49037.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c17c15$783e70c0$0100007f@mar>

Hi,
here is my piece of JavaScript code that check e-mail field (you can see how
it works on http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar/javascript/menushow.htm )
(in your case a mistake was formed by emailto.indexOf('@') that coused
misconfiguration of types, objects and methods in my brouser :)
One more thing - perhaps it's better to pass form's name into your function

Happy programming,
Maryanna Nesina
mar at mail.bio.pu.ru
http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar/

function
ckForm(f){ 
 var err=0;
 var id;
 for (var i = 0; i < f.length; i++) {
  var e = f.elements[i]; 
  
  var mynode;
  var id="ID"+i; 
   if (document.getElementById) {
     mynode = document.getElementById(id);
    }
  if (( ( (e.type == "text") || (e.type == "textarea") || (e.type == "password") ) && (!e.optional))&& ((e.value == null) || (e.value == ""))){
     if (err==1) break;
     $id="ID"+i;
     err=1;
     break;
   }
 if((err==0) && (((e.name=="emale") &&( (e.value.indexOf("\@") < 1) || ((e.value.length)  <= (e.value.indexOf("\@")+ 1) ))))) err=1;
    if (err == 1) break;
 }  
   if (err==0) {
     popup();
     return true;
   }
   var errtxt="Please, fill in "  + e.name + "  field correctly!";
   alert (errtxt);
    e.focus();
   if (document.getElementById) {
    mynode = document.getElementById(id);
    mynode.color="red";
   }
   return false;
}

_____________________

            <br><font size="2">put your e-mail here and press &quot;submit&quot; button</font></p>
            <form name="emalform" method="post" action="tra-la-la"  onSubmit="return CheckForm(this);">
              <center>
                <font ID="ID0">e-mail: </font>
                <input type="text" name="emale">
                <br>
                 <input type="hidden" name="list" value="mar">
                <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
                <input type="reset" name="Reset" value="Reset">
              </center>
            </form>
            <p>&nbsp;</p>





From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 11:23:23 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:23:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031717.fB3HHTZf019118@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEFICJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

sorry mate - i honestly don't think you're be able to get round - i guess
its just one of those things

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of aardvark
Sent: 03 December 2001 17:17
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
>
> apparetly you can do it this way:
> http://www.flashkit.com/tutorials/Utilities/Detectin-Arran_Sc-151/inde
> x.shtm l
>
> in the flash file and then use a meta refresh

done that technique before, and i usually use the Flash file to
forward the user instead of meta refresh...

however, in this case, i don't want to use a page refresh, i want to
handle for seurity settings...


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From allie at pajunas.com  Mon Dec  3 11:29:46 2001
From: allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:29:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031705.fB3H5rZf018225@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <MKELKPFONLHGDDNCHEOCMEDBCJAA.allie@pajunas.com>

It sounds to me like a combination of Paul's JavaScript example and
Fortune's NOSCRIPT tags would pretty much do the trick.

am I wrong?

Thanks,
Allie Micka
pajunas interactive, inc.
reusable web applications and hosting
http://pajunas.com




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 11:34:36 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:34:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEFICJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
References: <200112031717.fB3HHTZf019118@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112031734.fB3HYZZf020358@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
>
> sorry mate - i honestly don't think you're be able to get round - i
> guess its just one of those things

that would suck...

did you see my other post where i showed a site that does it?  it 
seems they use iframes and stuff, but i don't think it's a trip back to 
the server...

ugh.



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec  3 11:38:04 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:38:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
References: <001701c17ae3$e29401c0$b99c3841@lonnie>
Message-ID: <00ad01c17c21$758e2760$2860398a@newcos.com>

Lon,

> I've never read anything resembling this technique. Have I stumbled upon a
> really useful new "tool" or is it just folly?

    Definitely a useful tool. We did have a related thread on this several
months ago [1]. My thinking at that time was to map the .css extension to
the asp dll so that the server would parse style sheets as it would an asp
page. There was also a suggestion to create an alternate extension, such as
.cssp, that would indicate a dynamic style sheet that required server-side
processing, allowing the continued use of static .css pages without invoking
the asp parser. Of course, either of these require administrative access to
the server in order to map new file extensions to the asp dll, and
additional setup overhead if you ever move your dynamic css or cssp files to
another server.
    One obvious benefit of using .asp for dynamic stylesheets is that you
don't have to modify any server settings. In my brief testing, I didn't find
any significant drawbacks (aside from possible developer confusion as to
what kind of asp file one is dealing with) to using the .asp extension for
dynamic css files.

James Aylard

1. http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010514/157479.html ,
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010514/157520.html ,
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010514/157571.html




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Mon Dec  3 11:41:35 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:41:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031734.fB3HYZZf020358@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEFJCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

mmm..could et messy with iframes though - reckon you'd be letting yourself
in for more trickery

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of aardvark
Sent: 03 December 2001 17:36
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif


> From: "Paul Backhouse" <paul.backhouse at 2cs.com>
>
> sorry mate - i honestly don't think you're be able to get round - i
> guess its just one of those things

that would suck...

did you see my other post where i showed a site that does it?  it
seems they use iframes and stuff, but i don't think it's a trip back to
the server...

ugh.

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon Dec  3 11:43:55 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:43:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031705.fB3H5pZf018224@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200112031705.fB3H5pZf018224@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p0431010ab831591ea908@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:07 PM -0500 12/3/01, aardvark wrote:

>then go to http://quantumcms.com/
>
>when it asks if you want to allow ActiveX controls and plug-ins to
>run, say 'No'...

>problem is, the publish settings out of Flash are pretty crappy...
>that's the problem i'm trying to fix...

I don't think you have a problem - you know html well enough to 
correct the non-validating stuff and I'm sure can follow the flow of 
the ad banner templates that ship with Flash ... they handle the 
disable active x options just fine. I'd like to know what display 
problems they produce in any browser ...
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272

__________________________________________



From elfur at elfur.is  Mon Dec  3 11:58:08 2001
From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Mon Dec  3 11:58:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
References: <200112031714.fB3HEKZf018912@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <052a01c17c24$b23ec6d0$0100a8c0@DWARFS>

From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>

| so, i don't need what Olly needs, i need a client-side solution that
| degrades, preferrably with no script...

i think you'll have to nix the 'preferrably' part of that sentence ...

how about this:
(note this is uncut source from a local newspaper online)

<script language="javascript" version="1.1"
src="/mm/js/augl/111.js"></script><noscript><script language="javascript"
src="/mm/augl/augl.js?ad=706"></script><noscript><a
href="/frettir-ifx/?MIval=nad_clickthru&ad_id=706&listno=111&order=1"
onmouseover="window.status='Smelltu!';return true;"
onmouseout="window.status='';return true;" TARGET="_blank"><img
src="/augl/img/augl_netbokhald_221101.gif" border="0" width="365"
height="55"></a></noscript></noscript>

where the 111.js script contains the following:
(basically choosing between two different ads, i think)

// document.write("<!-- slot 111; fallback 0 -->")
var augl = new Array (
"<script language=\"javascript\"
src=\"/mm/augl/augl.js?ad=706\"></script><noscript><a
href=\"/frettir-ifx/?MIval=nad_clickthru&ad_id=706&listno=111&order=1\"
onmouseover=\"window.status='Smelltu!';return true;\"
onmouseout=\"window.status='';return true;\" TARGET=\"_blank\"><img
src=\"/augl/img/augl_netbokhald_221101.gif\" border=\"0\" width=\"365\"
height=\"55\"></a></noscript>",
"<script language=\"javascript\"
src=\"/mm/augl/augl.js?ad=730\"></script><noscript><a
href=\"/frettir-ifx/?MIval=nad_clickthru&ad_id=730&listno=111&order=5\"
onmouseover=\"window.status='Smelltu!';return true;\"
onmouseout=\"window.status='';return true;\" TARGET=\"_blank\"><img
src=\"/augl/img/augl_buno_krakkabanki_301101.gif\" border=\"0\"
width=\"365\" height=\"55\"></a></noscript>"
);
var sec = new Date;
sec = sec.getSeconds();
if (augl.length) {
   var idx = sec % augl.length;
   document.write(augl[idx]);
}

--- end code ---

now this is not my script and i have no idea what's really happening there
:)
but this is what's going on at http://mbl.is an icelandic newspaper online.

HTH
elfur




From Chris.Sammarco at millersville.edu  Mon Dec  3 13:37:49 2001
From: Chris.Sammarco at millersville.edu (Chris Sammarco)
Date: Mon Dec  3 13:37:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with mySql
Message-ID: <A58A19632EEDD211A67D0090273AE93903B64E0E@mail1.millersville.edu>

Thanks to everyone who helped me connect to the mysql server, I could
connect to the server using: mysql_connect("members.evolt.org", "PASSWORD");
Although I could not connect using:
mysql_connect("members.evolt.org","casammar", "PASSWORD"); and I don't
understand why. I still cant seem to connect to my database. I'm using the
following information:  mysql_select_db("casammar") or die("Could not select
database"); and it keeps dying. Can you please help me.

thanks,
Chris Sammarco
Millersville University
Web and Multimedia Design
Phone - (717)872-3398
Email - Chris.Sammarco at millersville.edu




From djc at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec  3 13:39:27 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Dec  3 13:39:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with mySql
References: <A58A19632EEDD211A67D0090273AE93903B64E0E@mail1.millersville.edu>
Message-ID: <3C0BD4CC.5090101@members.evolt.org>

Chris -

You should be using 'localhost' for the server name, not 
members.evolt.org. Once thats fixed, everything shoudl work for you.

.djc.

Chris Sammarco wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who helped me connect to the mysql server, I could
> connect to the server using: mysql_connect("members.evolt.org", "PASSWORD");
> Although I could not connect using:
> mysql_connect("members.evolt.org","casammar", "PASSWORD"); and I don't
> understand why. I still cant seem to connect to my database. I'm using the
> following information:  mysql_select_db("casammar") or die("Could not select
> database"); and it keeps dying. Can you please help me.





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec  3 13:49:14 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec  3 13:49:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Submitting Articles to evolt.org ... was ....Variable Stylesheets?
References: <001701c17ae3$e29401c0$b99c3841@lonnie> <00cf01c17aea$33a56da0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> <009e01c17b7c$53ed3420$dc9b3841@lonnie>
Message-ID: <02ed01c17c34$17017680$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hi Lon,

Sorry for the delay .. been trying to track down your userID for the evolt
web site.  No luck so far.  Any chance you had an old email address that you
signed up with?  Can you contact djc (djc at members.evolt.org) to sort this
out.  He can give you a new password and get your original account working
again.  Or he'll let you know if you need to sign up for a new one or not.

Actually, this goes for anyone .. if you're having problems with  your
userid/password combination on the evolt site, let djc (Dan) or Admin know
via the contact form.  Logging in with your userid allows one to not only
post new articles but also to provide comments and rate existing articles.

Lon, once you get your userid sorted out, when logged in there will be a
link on the sidebar that says "Submit articles, news or reviews for
publication on evolt" where you can submit your article.  You may want to
skim through a couple of the evolt.org FAQ articles that give guidelines on
writing articles for publication and another one that outlines the code that
can be used within the evolt.org CMS.

http://evolt.org/writers_guidelines/
http://evolt.org/guide_code/


Hope this helps.  Holler if you have any further questions.

Kind regards,

Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "lon.kraemer" <lwkraemer at earthlink.net>


| > Lon,
| >
| > I really like this approach .. would make a great article on evolt's web
| > site too.
|
| Thanks Michele. Article?... ya think?
|
| > Interested in published this technique?
|
| How exactly would I go about doing that? BTW, tried to login at evolt, but
| my un/pw (of many moons ago) wouldn't take. Do I need to reregister?





From recoil at telusplanet.net  Mon Dec  3 13:59:05 2001
From: recoil at telusplanet.net (Jeff Klassen)
Date: Mon Dec  3 13:59:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with contacts.
Message-ID: <005301c17c35$5ea69190$0acaad8e@susa>

Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am not to sure how I should
write contacts between me and clients.  I was wondering if someone could
help me, or had any general contracts I could use as examples. Thank you!

thanks,
Jeff Klassen
Web and Multimedia Design
Phone - (403)253-9663
Email - mailto:recoil at telusplanet.net




From djc at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec  3 14:01:47 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Dec  3 14:01:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with contacts.
References: <005301c17c35$5ea69190$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <3C0BDA08.107@members.evolt.org>

Found in http://dir.evolt.org/tools/
theres a link to http://www.templatekit.com/

"Template Kit is a resource site where you can download a number of 
templates and learn from the contents. PowerPoint & Multimedia 
backgrounds are available for download or purchase. Tutorials on HTML 
Email, Flash Email, Web Design Contracts and more!"

hope that helps :)

.djc.

Jeff Klassen wrote:

> Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am not to sure how I should
> write contacts between me and clients.  I was wondering if someone could
> help me, or had any general contracts I could use as examples. Thank you!





From Rick.Kates at ncgicorp.com  Mon Dec  3 14:01:57 2001
From: Rick.Kates at ncgicorp.com (Rick.Kates at ncgicorp.com)
Date: Mon Dec  3 14:01:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] WebART web testing software and Masks
Message-ID: <OF6B7763FF.79ECD64C-ON85256B17.006E010A@mainline.com>

Has anyone used WebART?  If so, would you please reply with a decent
example of how to remove session information from a URL using a Mask?

To be a little more specific - I need to remove the string

     applicationRefQ=#####

(where ##### is dynamic incrementing number) from my URLs when capturing a
script.


Thanks a bunch!

Patrick Kates
NCGi




From chrisg at gsnet.com  Mon Dec  3 14:06:59 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Mon Dec  3 14:06:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with cont[r]acts.
In-Reply-To: <005301c17c35$5ea69190$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <B83129BB.96FA%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Get a lawyer to do that - here in Canada you can usually get it done for
~$250.00.  It's worth it in the end when you have to collect. ;-)

There's nothing worse than a client reneging on a deal 'cause they found a
loophole in a contract.  And clients expect it, you don't need to worry
about coming across as too strong or harsh.  I even make my friends sign the
contract....

Anyway.  Hope that helps....

Chris George
Edmonton, Canada

on 12/3/2001 1:02 PM, Jeff Klassen at recoil at telusplanet.net wrote:

> Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am not to sure how I should
> write cont[r]acts between me and clients.  I was wondering if someone could
> help me, or had any general contracts I could use as examples. Thank you!
> 
> thanks,
> Jeff Klassen




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  3 14:12:20 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Mon Dec  3 14:12:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with contacts.
Message-ID: <F147oMAmb9CrK8mXKfi000081c8@hotmail.com>

Hey Jeff :

Try this link (note the wrap) :

http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3885-8-4500031-1.html?tag=st.bl.3885.dir1.3885-8-4500031

They have some sample contracts that should get you started.

Hope this helps,
Burhan Khalid




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Mon Dec  3 15:13:50 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:13:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
Message-ID: <v02140b09b8319a0a1bf4@[10.112.1.122]>

At 8:05 AM 12/3/1, aardvark wrote:
>ok, let's say i have a Flash logo on my site... and let's say that
>Flash logo can, obviously, sometimes be disabled by the user (no
>plug-in, refusal to let plug-ins run, etc.) and let's say i want to
>ensure a static image shows in its place and it gracefully
>degrades... and let's say i'd really like to see it validate...
>where can i go to see that type of code in place?

Easiest might be just a link to an optimized-text version. (Not everyone
can download or see a GIF, for instance.)


There are many trickier approaches possible, (I'm certainly guilty of
abetting this over the last six years!), but considering how the top sites
now use Flash ads as a matter of course, simplicity becomes the rule. Just
provide a link to the player, and a link to those who prefer text to
graphics.

Or get tricky, your call.  ;-)


btw, nice presentation, at bottom of page, with "learn about components":
<http://www.segway.com/consumer/segway/product_specifications.html>


jd








From adam at hallinteractive.com  Mon Dec  3 15:14:56 2001
From: adam at hallinteractive.com (Adam)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:14:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7
In-Reply-To: <005c01c176b0$e76a4e70$8e7478d5@london.local>
Message-ID: <B83155CB.5947%adam@hallinteractive.com>

Hello !
I've tried the solution you've suggested and bloody NN4.7 Win2k just refuses
to either: display the textbox at the bottom of the form or submit the form
at all.

I'm way past knowing what to do.

my head hurts. Any got any ideas what I'm missing? I've been staring at this
form all day....

http://www.hall-assoc.com/clients/rh/main2.shtml

follow the contact us link.

cheers and thx.
Ad.

<tip>
Macromedia has an extension for Dreamweaver users that checks documents for
(508) accessibility and generates reports accordingly. very handy.
http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/ultradev/ </tip>



on 11/26/01 2:31 PM, John Olival at johnolival at yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> Adam
> 
> The problem seems to be a conflict between the line-height you specified in
> the style sheet and the space you allow for in the form. Netscape doesn't
> like this. If you add another <br> like you have done with all the other
> input boxes after the textarea box (see below), this will sort out your
> problem.
> 
> <form method="post" action="http://www.lweb.net/cgi-bin/mailer.pl">....
> .....
> Comments:<br><textarea name="Comments" cols="40"
> rows="4"></textarea><br><br>
> <input type="reset" value="clear">&nbsp;<input type="submit" value="send">
> </form>
> 
> Now is there still a problem with your pop-up script?
> 
> HTH
> 
> JohnO
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 

-----
adam at hallinteractive.com
http://www.hallinteractive.com




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Dec  3 15:18:04 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:18:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with cont[r]acts.
In-Reply-To: <B83129BB.96FA%chrisg@gsnet.com>
Message-ID: <000901c17c41$8daabd20$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

I had spoken to a lawyer about contracts while in business class.  Basically
what it comes down to is that you write a contract or rewrite a current
contract to suit your business, the client reads it, and either signs it or
not.  What makes the contract legally binding is the clients signature.
Once signed it becomes a legal contract and subject to any breach of
contract elements that were agreed upon when signing.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris George
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:08 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Help with cont[r]acts.


Get a lawyer to do that - here in Canada you can usually get it done for
~$250.00.  It's worth it in the end when you have to collect. ;-)

There's nothing worse than a client reneging on a deal 'cause they found a
loophole in a contract.  And clients expect it, you don't need to worry
about coming across as too strong or harsh.  I even make my friends sign the
contract....

Anyway.  Hope that helps....

Chris George
Edmonton, Canada

on 12/3/2001 1:02 PM, Jeff Klassen at recoil at telusplanet.net wrote:

> Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am not to sure how I should
> write cont[r]acts between me and clients.  I was wondering if someone
could
> help me, or had any general contracts I could use as examples. Thank you!
>
> thanks,
> Jeff Klassen


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From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec  3 15:27:09 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:27:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7
References: <B83155CB.5947%adam@hallinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <00e001c17c41$76a55630$2860398a@newcos.com>

Adam,

> I've tried the solution you've suggested and bloody NN4.7 Win2k just
refuses
> to either: display the textbox at the bottom of the form or submit the
form
> at all.
>
> http://www.hall-assoc.com/clients/rh/main2.shtml

    Try fixing this (courtesy of the W3C validator [1]):

<quote>
Line 59, column 35:
  ... "hidden" name="Required" value=name|address|town|code|tel|EM ...
                                         ^
Error: an attribute value must be quoted if it contains any character other
than letters (A-Za-z), digits, hyphens, and periods; use quotes if in doubt
</quote>

James Aylard

1.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hall-assoc.com%2Fclients%
2Frh%2Fcontact.htm&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&ss=&out
line=




From diego at minid.net  Mon Dec  3 15:28:29 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:28:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7
References: <B83155CB.5947%adam@hallinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <3C0BECFC.9040400@minid.net>

If it doesn't display it, thats because it's not enclosed in the 
<form></form> tags... check it again. or check the input code again.

cheers


diego
www.minid.net.

Adam wrote:

>Hello !
>I've tried the solution you've suggested and bloody NN4.7 Win2k just refuses
>to either: display the textbox at the bottom of the form or submit the form
>at all.
>
>I'm way past knowing what to do.
>
>my head hurts. Any got any ideas what I'm missing? I've been staring at this
>form all day....
>
>http://www.hall-assoc.com/clients/rh/main2.shtml
>
>follow the contact us link.
>
>cheers and thx.
>Ad.
>
><tip>
>Macromedia has an extension for Dreamweaver users that checks documents for
>(508) accessibility and generates reports accordingly. very handy.
>http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/ultradev/ </tip>
>
>
>
>on 11/26/01 2:31 PM, John Olival at johnolival at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>>Adam
>>
>>The problem seems to be a conflict between the line-height you specified in
>>the style sheet and the space you allow for in the form. Netscape doesn't
>>like this. If you add another <br> like you have done with all the other
>>input boxes after the textarea box (see below), this will sort out your
>>problem.
>>
>><form method="post" action="http://www.lweb.net/cgi-bin/mailer.pl">....
>>.....
>>Comments:<br><textarea name="Comments" cols="40"
>>rows="4"></textarea><br><br>
>><input type="reset" value="clear">&nbsp;<input type="submit" value="send">
>></form>
>>
>>Now is there still a problem with your pop-up script?
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>JohnO
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------
>>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>>
>
>-----
>adam at hallinteractive.com
>http://www.hallinteractive.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>





From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info  Mon Dec  3 15:34:19 2001
From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:34:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7
References: <B83155CB.5947%adam@hallinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <004901c17c42$73e8b1c0$680110ac@shauna>

Appears I'm late to the thread, but...

We had a problem similar to this a while ago.

Turned out that NN didn't like displaying the text box because it was trying
to be wider than the cell that contained it.  Took a long time to figure
that one out.

Try removing the table tags as a test to see if that's what it is.  (or make
the textbox 5 columns wide)

Shaun


----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam" <adam at hallinteractive.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:16 PM
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7


> Hello !
> I've tried the solution you've suggested and bloody NN4.7 Win2k just
refuses
> to either: display the textbox at the bottom of the form or submit the
form
> at all.
>
> I'm way past knowing what to do.
>
> my head hurts. Any got any ideas what I'm missing? I've been staring at
this
> form all day....
>
> http://www.hall-assoc.com/clients/rh/main2.shtml
>
> follow the contact us link.
>
> cheers and thx.
> Ad.
>
> <tip>
> Macromedia has an extension for Dreamweaver users that checks documents
for
> (508) accessibility and generates reports accordingly. very handy.
> http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/ultradev/ </tip>
>
>
>
> on 11/26/01 2:31 PM, John Olival at johnolival at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> > Adam
> >
> > The problem seems to be a conflict between the line-height you specified
in
> > the style sheet and the space you allow for in the form. Netscape
doesn't
> > like this. If you add another <br> like you have done with all the other
> > input boxes after the textarea box (see below), this will sort out your
> > problem.
> >
> > <form method="post" action="http://www.lweb.net/cgi-bin/mailer.pl">....
> > .....
> > Comments:<br><textarea name="Comments" cols="40"
> > rows="4"></textarea><br><br>
> > <input type="reset" value="clear">&nbsp;<input type="submit"
value="send">
> > </form>
> >
> > Now is there still a problem with your pop-up script?
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > JohnO
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
> -----
> adam at hallinteractive.com
> http://www.hallinteractive.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From recoil at telusplanet.net  Mon Dec  3 15:55:19 2001
From: recoil at telusplanet.net (Jeff Klassen)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:55:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued
Message-ID: <00cf01c17c45$9d7a2520$0acaad8e@susa>

Thank you everyone for your help, I have a few more questions.
1.When writing a contract, which I will have to do because I cant afford to
pay for a lawyer right now, who generally maintains the "rights" to the
work.  I would expect a company to want to own their logo, but what about
web pages and stuff.

2.Is it a normal, in a contract to specify what "company" the client uses if
they want to reproduce any of the product you give them, e.g.. brochures

3.I know its allot to ask but if anyone could provide a short example.  Very
new to business and what to do my research before I start taking too many
clients.

thanks,
Jeff Klassen
Web and Multimedia Design
Calgary, Canada
Phone - (403)253-9663
Email - mailto:recoil at telusplanet.net




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec  3 15:57:14 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec  3 15:57:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] form submit nn4.7
References: <B83155CB.5947%adam@hallinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <00f301c17c45$aaa37030$2860398a@newcos.com>

Adam,

> my head hurts. Any got any ideas what I'm missing? I've been staring at
this
> form all day....
>
> http://www.hall-assoc.com/clients/rh/main2.shtml

    After further review, it's not the lack of quotes around the hidden form
field value (although that is an error); it's the line-height value in your
style sheet for the body, p, and td. Remove that, and your form will display
properly.
    Also, validate your CSS at http://jigsaw.w3.org/. You've got a lot of
little errors in your CSS that could result in unintended behavior or
appearance.

James Aylard




From amanda at gawow.com  Mon Dec  3 16:06:19 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:06:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued
In-Reply-To: <00cf01c17c45$9d7a2520$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <000b01c17c47$0efbf4c0$1bc263d8@75ctt01>

> Thank you everyone for your help, I have a few more 
> questions. 1.When writing a contract, which I will have to do 
> because I cant afford to pay for a lawyer right now, who 
> generally maintains the "rights" to the work.  I would expect 
> a company to want to own their logo, 

1. Depends on who your client is
2. Depends on who you are

Yes, the company will want to own their own logo. However, you should
price that accordingly. Some people will want to price it based on some
perceived market value. If you're a big, bad designer who charges
buttloads for your work and your client is big and bad you could
probably charge a lot more. However, this is probably not the case.
Charge for your work but charge a little more.

Don't forget the costs for creating your logo in a variety of formats
for printing and whatnot.

> but what about web pages 
> and stuff.

I specify in my contracts that the client owns the design. However, that
doesn't mean that they get source files. In fact the only source files I
give are those for features which may have to be updated at a later date
and possibly by someone not myself such as graphical headers or maybe
the about us page has employee photos with a tricky border. They get
these files which contain instructions within them as well as a
styleguide for all the areas of the site that they will need to maintain
(possibly).

I also specify that the design is for their company, specified by name,
and only for the web. I don't want to see my designs appropriated for
brochures or trade booths or whatever. I don't want the company to get
bought out and have some other company sandwiching all their crap into
my design. If they sell the site or want to do printwork with the design
then they are supposed to come back to me. 
 
> 2.Is it a normal, in a contract to specify what "company" the 
> client uses if they want to reproduce any of the product you 
> give them, e.g.. brochures

See above. I specify in the contract that they need my permission. Now,
if you're creating print work for them it all boils down to the source
files in my opinion. Are you creating print work?

I think it's time to buy yourself a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild
Handbook. 

- amanda




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec  3 16:17:17 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:17:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
Message-ID: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hi Folks ...

I've got a problem that is probably staring me right in the face, but I
can't find it.

Here's the site:
http://sormehbeauty.on.ca/

The links on the main page and on the side bar should not be BOLD.  They
are.  :( ...  They should be inheriting the class="menu" .. whereby I've not
set the links to bold.  Do I need to set them to anything if I don't want
them bold?  Is that the problem?

Or am I just entirely missing something else, and the inheritance problems
are stemming from the use of <ul>,<li> instead?

Any other comments on the site greatly appreciated.

TIA

Michele


___________________________

Michele Foster
WordPro Services
Aurora, Ontario, Canada
mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
http://wordpro.on.ca/





From wndrlnd at gte.net  Mon Dec  3 16:28:46 2001
From: wndrlnd at gte.net (kim greist)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:28:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <20011203200417.4F0A8907@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B8313AD9.4DBB%wndrlnd@gte.net>

on 12/3/01 12:04 PM, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
 
You could always put the swf in a table and set the background image as your
animated gif- this option is great for Flash emails, where javascript is
obviously not an option-Mac users on IE won't see anything otherwise.
; )




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec  3 16:32:02 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:32:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <010401c17c4a$8719e590$2860398a@newcos.com>

Michele,

> http://sormehbeauty.on.ca/
>
> The links on the main page and on the side bar should not be BOLD.  They
> are.  :( ...  They should be inheriting the class="menu" .. whereby I've
not
> set the links to bold.  Do I need to set them to anything if I don't want
> them bold?  Is that the problem?

    Yes, since you are setting links to bold generally, this setting will
apply to all links unless you specifically override it for the links that
are descendents of the .menu class. Adding font-weight: normal to your links
that are descendents of the .menu class should solve the problem.

James Aylard




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Mon Dec  3 16:33:10 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:33:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <000001c17bda$ad19a2f0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203002248.0274a4d0@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203135236.03158b80@mail.midtown.net>

Hi, Joel,

At 01:12 AM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>Shirley, didn't you make the comment once that until we stop designing
>for Netscape 4, users won't be motivated to change? I'm beginning to
>think we may actually reach that point.

Well, I'm not the only one who's said this, though. The Web Standards 
Project most likely has stated this (certainly something similar to this), 
and I've always been a strong supporter of their efforts.

At the same time, there are lots of people stuck with using Netscape 4.x 
browsers for various reasons, whether employers, an old computer and no 
money, a combination of factors, whatever. It would be great to continue to 
educate these people and let them know how to easily upgrade, where to find 
the free newer browsers that can still work on an old computer, etc.

So I do indeed have compassion for those stuck with using it. I also think 
we can continue to gently nudge and educate employers, libraries, schools, 
and whatever else to replace those browsers.

And true, too, is that the more we stop designing for netscape 4, the more 
exasperated the users might get and might eventually upgrade their 
browsers. Banks are a big example of relying on the newer browsers to use 
their online banking service. Lots of people use online banking and must 
upload their browsers to do so. Is that such a bad thing? I don't think so 
at all. I don't know how others feel about it, though, and undoubtedly 
there are some who'd love to use the online banking but can't because their 
old computer can't accommodate IE5, IE6 or whatever's needed.

But can many of us handle things that way with the business sites we build 
for clients? Not always so straightforward. It's a tough one, ya know?

I do think we can seek a pretty good balance, though, building our sites to 
utilize the separation of content and structure as much as possible, making 
good use of style sheets, XHTML (or HTML 4.01....), and designing for newer 
browsers while allowing for graceful degradation to older browsers so that 
they can still access the site, even if it doesn't look identical in 
Netscape 4 browsers. This is the approach I've been suggesting to clients 
for new sites during the past 6+ months or so, and that's working fine, 
although there was one client who still required as close to identical as 
possible in Netscape 4. For them I still minimized the use of tables, but I 
did use nested tables for the horizontal and vertical box lines and other 
things that I now do with CSS instead for other sites.

There are varying degrees of what I mention, too. Some are using CSS-P and 
table-less layouts, which will look quite different in Netscape 4 browsers, 
while I haven't gone quite that far yet for clients' sites that still have 
a bunch of customers and visitors to their sites who expect a comparable 
viewing experience in Netscape 4. Hard to justify losing customers because 
of this. On the other hand, would customers not buy from a site just 
because of this? Still seems like if the site is still usable and functions 
that maybe it would be OK.

I think each site and client needs to be evaluated and worked with on this 
appropriately. I don't see the answers as black and white at all.

I also think PART of this is a shift in our own thinking and approaches and 
then how we present our suggestions to clients so that they understand the 
benefits of designing for newer browsers, even if their sites don't look 
quite the same in Netscape 4. (and how much does that really matter anyway? 
It matters to some but not others.)

>We're seeing more browsers. Mozilla and Opera seem to have little quirks
>all their own; nothing really painful, as I recall, but they exist. I
>want my content to be usable by as much of the target audience as
>possible, so degradability is important, but I wonder if we'll ever
>reach the point where there are too many workarounds to be feasible on a
>commercial site? At some point, will the 'balance of power' shift from
>the users (many of whom are told by their employer what browser to use)
>to designers, who just can't fit any more browser/platform checks and
>workarounds into their code any more?

This is the tough thing, Joel. I think we MUST design for the users for our 
commercial sites. But we can find a reasonable enough balance. It's not 
easy to accommodate every single browser on all platforms, so my own 
compromise is that I won't worry so much about sites looking as identical 
as possible. I'll try to make them look very good and similar as much as 
possible, but I don't want to go for the painstaking identical visual 
appearance that I used to do, either. If it looks good, does it matter if 
it's identical on each browser our there? I don't think so, but there are 
those who feel otherwise, too, of course.

I watch the stats and build sites to visually look the best for the largest 
numbers on the stats logs. And then I also include making sure that the 
sites still work fine and are visually OK on the other browsers, too..... 
just not identical. I certainly don't forego using the CSS hovers, but I 
make sure that sites still make sense for Netscape users who don't see that 
feature.

>Of course, a greater evil would be if we DIDN'T have the diversity - in
>spite of a pretty good existing version, I can think of at least one
>company I DON'T want owning the entire browser market (especially since
>they don't even make their own sites comply with existing standards.)

Exactly. We need to continue to have freedom of choice, and the diversity 
of browsers is a part of that. Implementing standards and supporting 
standards is a great way to seek a good balance. After all, light bulbs 
have standards, electricity has standards, and so many other industries 
have standards. What a nightmare it would be to have lamps with millions of 
socket sizes.... we're not asking for any more than that with our 
standards. And there are still millions of lamp styles and a wide range of 
choices with light bulbs. Just having the same size socket hasn't impeded 
our ability to be creative in the least or for lots of companies to exist. 
It's helped it thrive, in my opinion.

>Many inventors and creators worked to fill a need that didn't exist yet,
>except in their own minds. Maybe somehow we really are working toward a
>standards compliant web.

Yes.

>Or maybe it's 1:15 a.m. in SoCal, and somebody's up past bedtime for an
>old man.
>
>Joel at spinhead.com

Old man?!?!  <chuckle>

Warmly,
Shirley
--
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html


>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Shirley Kaiser,
>SKDesigns
>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:27 AM
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
>
>
>At 11:00 PM 12/02/2001, Lon wrote:
> >Will NN4.x ever go away?
>
>I've wondered about a plot to get all the people together who create the
>
>yukky viruses to instead attack Netscape 4 browsers and blast them to
>smithereens. That's been my fantasy toward Netscape 4 for quite some
>time now.
>
>I've been afraid of suggesting such a thing for fear of the FBI storming
>my
>house and taking my computer, or that my friends who swear by Netscape 4
>
>will throw rotten tomatoes at me. Not sure which is worse.




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec  3 16:36:59 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:36:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> <010401c17c4a$8719e590$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <039a01c17c4b$86983d00$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

James,

----- Original Message -----
From: "MRC" <webmaster at equilon-mrc.com>


| >
| > The links on the main page and on the side bar should not be BOLD.  They
| > are.  :( ...  They should be inheriting the class="menu" .. whereby I've
| not
| > set the links to bold.  Do I need to set them to anything if I don't
want
| > them bold?  Is that the problem?
|
|     Yes, since you are setting links to bold generally, this setting will
| apply to all links unless you specifically override it for the links that
| are descendents of the .menu class. Adding font-weight: normal to your
links
| that are descendents of the .menu class should solve the problem.
|

Thanks a million ... I tried font-weight: none .. LOL

Works perfectly .. I'm happy once again.  ;)

Mich







From evolt at spinhead.com  Mon Dec  3 16:37:01 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:37:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <002b01c17c4b$2551bdf0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Hi Mich. In your style sheet, you specified bold for all links. Like dis:

a:link  {
   text-decoration : none ;
   font-weight : bold ;
   color : #A04410 ;
   }

Unless I have my cascade upside, down, the closer the style reference is to
the element, the more weight it has. So, the <a href> right at the link
overrides your earlier <class=menu>

And if I'm wrong, I sure hope somebody fills us both in right away - I took
my book home, and I didn't memorize the whole thing yet.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michele Foster" <michele at wordpro.on.ca>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links


> Hi Folks ...
>
> I've got a problem that is probably staring me right in the face, but I
> can't find it.
>
> Here's the site:
> http://sormehbeauty.on.ca/
>
> The links on the main page and on the side bar should not be BOLD.  They
> are.  :( ...  They should be inheriting the class="menu" .. whereby I've
not
> set the links to bold.  Do I need to set them to anything if I don't want
> them bold?  Is that the problem?
>
> Or am I just entirely missing something else, and the inheritance problems
> are stemming from the use of <ul>,<li> instead?
>
> Any other comments on the site greatly appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> Michele
>
>
> ___________________________
>
> Michele Foster
> WordPro Services
> Aurora, Ontario, Canada
> mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
> http://wordpro.on.ca/
>
> >




From recoil at telusplanet.net  Mon Dec  3 16:38:30 2001
From: recoil at telusplanet.net (Jeff Klassen)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:38:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued
References: <000b01c17c47$0efbf4c0$1bc263d8@75ctt01>
Message-ID: <001301c17c4b$a704b6e0$0acaad8e@susa>

Thank you Amanda and everyone else,
Yes  I will be doing some print work. Well I will be creating the source
files and having them printed, I would just like to have everything printed
at one place, if I bring him business he will give me a small % of all the
prints after the originals.


thanks,
Jeff Klassen
Web and Multimedia Design
Calgary, Canada
Phone - (403)253-9663
Email - mailto:recoil at telusplanet.net




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Mon Dec  3 16:40:39 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:40:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
In-Reply-To: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203142714.02d3eec0@mail.midtown.net>

At 02:20 PM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>Hi Folks ...
>
>I've got a problem that is probably staring me right in the face, but I
>can't find it.
>
>Here's the site:
>http://sormehbeauty.on.ca/
>
>The links on the main page and on the side bar should not be BOLD.  They
>are.  :( ...  They should be inheriting the class="menu" .. whereby I've not
>set the links to bold.  Do I need to set them to anything if I don't want
>them bold?  Is that the problem?

Michele, I see that on your link tags that you've designated them to be 
bold text.

/* -- MAIN CONTENT LINKS -- */
a:link {
text-decoration : none ;
font-weight : bold ;
color : #A04410 ;
}

a:visited {
text-decoration : none ;
color : #A04410 ;
font-weight : bold ;
}
a:hover {
text-decoration : underline ;
color : #663300 ;
font-weight : bold ;
}
a:active {
text-decoration : none ;
color : #663300 ;
font-weight : bold ;
}

So, I'd suggest removing the font-weight:bold attribute from your link tags 
and try that. If you want other ones to be bold, then just designate a 
class for those.

>Or am I just entirely missing something else, and the inheritance problems
>are stemming from the use of <ul>,<li> instead?

I think it's just the above link tags, so see if that's it. You might check 
other tags to make sure they're not accidentally designated as bold, too, 
but your <ul> and <li> were OK, and so was the menu tag.

HTH.

Warmly,
Shirley

>Any other comments on the site greatly appreciated.
>
>TIA
>
>Michele
>
>
>___________________________
>
>Michele Foster
>WordPro Services
>Aurora, Ontario, Canada
>mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
>http://wordpro.on.ca/
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 16:42:58 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:42:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <B8313AD9.4DBB%wndrlnd@gte.net>
References: <20011203200417.4F0A8907@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112032242.fB3MgvZf007742@leo.evolt.org>

> From: kim greist <wndrlnd at gte.net>
> 
> > Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
> 
> You could always put the swf in a table and set the background image
> as your animated gif- this option is great for Flash emails, where
> javascript is obviously not an option-Mac users on IE won't see
> anything otherwise. ; )

damn, that's interesting... just brute force -- if it breaks, it still 
works... why didn't i think of that...

next trick is to see how well it works...

thanks for the idea, time to play...




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Mon Dec  3 16:48:03 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:48:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
In-Reply-To: <039a01c17c4b$86983d00$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
 <010401c17c4a$8719e590$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203143649.030a1630@mail.midtown.net>

At 02:40 PM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>Thanks a million ... I tried font-weight: none .. LOL
>
>Works perfectly .. I'm happy once again.  ;)
>
>Mich

Michele,

I also think it will work fine if you don't even include a font weight in 
your particular use here. I only include a font weight when I want it 
different from the default normal. I can't recall having a problem with it. 
If there's an inheritance issue, then of course I'd add the font weight.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec  3 16:48:31 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:48:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203142714.02d3eec0@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <03b901c17c4d$21c0e420$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Shirley and Joel

Thanks for the responses .. it was actually my

.menu a:link
etc.

classes which needed a font-weight: normal added to them .. I guess the main
links were over-riding them .. instead of just not putting a font-weight at
all.

All is working great now.

Thanks,

Mich


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>

| a:link {
| text-decoration : none ;
| font-weight : bold ;
| color : #A04410 ;
| }





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec  3 16:51:14 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:51:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> <010401c17c4a$8719e590$2860398a@newcos.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011203143649.030a1630@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <03be01c17c4d$846dd100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Shirley,

That's what I thought too .. but for whatever reason, it wouldn't work
properly.  Guess the rule is if you want some links to appear differently be
sure to apply the same properties (elements) as regular links, but with the
differences noted that you want, elsewise the missing properties will carry
through.

Seems rather illogical to me .. but so do a lot of other things... hehehe

Mich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>


| At 02:40 PM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
|
| I also think it will work fine if you don't even include a font weight in
| your particular use here. I only include a font weight when I want it
| different from the default normal. I can't recall having a problem with
it.
| If there's an inheritance issue, then of course I'd add the font weight.





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Dec  3 16:53:40 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Mon Dec  3 16:53:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued (Long reply)
In-Reply-To: <00cf01c17c45$9d7a2520$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <000801c17c4e$e871f400$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Jeff this is rather long winded but I've included a lot of links that have
come from this group of very helpful people, please excuse any doubles, I
didn't proof the list. The answers below are  from my experience.  I have
found that the contract although it has to protect you should be geared
towards the client and what the need or what you can offer them.


1.When writing a contract, which I will have to do because I cant afford to
pay for a lawyer right now, who generally maintains the "rights" to the
work.  I would expect a company to want to own their logo, but what about
web pages and stuff.

The client owns whatever logo's, graphics, or proprietary information they
give you, however, the work you do for them on the design side of things is
yours until payment is made in full. You can not claim rights to something
that wasn't yours to begin with.  You may want to stipulate that you retain
the right to any code you develop specifically for this web site.

2.Is it a normal, in a contract to specify what "company" the client uses if
they want to reproduce any of the product you give them, e.g.. brochures

In your contract you can negotiate the design of a brochure using outside
sources for an additional costs to the client, but once they have paid you
in full for the web site you designed for them, they can do what they want
with it, if that means having someone else develop a brochure, then that's
ok.

3.I know its allot to ask but if anyone could provide a short example.  Very
new to business and what to do my research before I start taking too many
clients.

Here's some links to take a look at:

http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/FAQ/rate_setting.html
http://www.aquentpartners.com/info/free_tools/index.cfm
http://www.guru.com/channel/hiring/guide/G718.jhtml
http://www.guru.com/channel/work/askexpert/Q645.jhtml
http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/FAQ/setting_realistic_fees.html
http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/faq.html
http://www.allfreelance.com/payment.html
http://www.concord.com/
http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3885-8-4500031-1.html
http://provider.com/contracts.htm
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/standard.html
http://designwise.net/webdesigner/contracts.htm
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/web.html
http://www.allfreelance.com/legal.html
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/
http://www.gag.org/contracts/contracts.html
http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/contractFAQ.html#standard
http://provider.com/contracts.htm
http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pkg-con.htm
http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/content-plan.htm
http://www.wilsonweb.com/commerce/store-worksheet.htm
http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pageplan.htm
http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pkg-con.htm
http://www.allfreelance.com/ [home page]
http://www.allfreelance.com/general.html [general on freelancing]
http://www.allfreelance.com/useful.html [useful resources]
http://www.allfreelance.com/promo-freelance.html [marketing and
promoting]
http://www.allfreelance.com/legal.html   [legal sections includes
copyright, client, contracting and sub contracting issues]
http://www.allfreelance.com/start.html   [starting a business]
http://www.allfreelance.com/hoffice.html  [home office set up and help]
(there are some links to free downloadable or printable business forms
of all sorts at these links above)
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/articles/12design.htm
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pkg-con.htm
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/content-plan.htm
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/commerce/store-worksheet.htm
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pageplan.htm
 http://www.wilsonweb.com/worksheet/pkg-con.htm
 http://www.concord.com/
 http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3885-8-4500031-1.html
 http://provider.com/contracts.htm
 http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/FAQ/rate_setting.html
 http://www.aquentpartners.com/info/free_tools/index.cfm
 http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/FAQ/setting_realistic_fees.html
 http://www.aw-wrdsmth.com/faq.html
 http://www.ivanhoffman.com/standard.html
 http://designwise.net/webdesigner/contracts.htm
 http://www.ivanhoffman.com/web.html
 http://www.allfreelance.com/payment.html
 http://www.allfreelance.com/legal.html
 http://www.ivanhoffman.com/
 http://www.gag.org/contracts/contracts.html
 http://www.guru.com/channel/hiring/guide/G718.jhtml
 http://www.guru.com/channel/work/askexpert/Q645.jhtml
 http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/contractFAQ.html#standard
 http://provider.com/contracts.htm
 http://glassbottom.com/contract.html

Hope this has helped,

Bob

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 11/24/01





From amanda at gawow.com  Mon Dec  3 17:11:19 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Mon Dec  3 17:11:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued
In-Reply-To: <001301c17c4b$a704b6e0$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <001001c17c50$241d1c40$1bc263d8@75ctt01>

 
> Thank you Amanda and everyone else,
> Yes  I will be doing some print work. Well I will be creating 
> the source files and having them printed, I would just like 
> to have everything printed at one place, if I bring him 
> business he will give me a small % of all the prints after 
> the originals.

Well, I think after the client leaves you, you don't have much control
over where they print the source files that you have given them. If you
want to keep them printing at the same place then talk that place up and
down and make sure that the work is quality and on-time.

- amanda




From muinar at gmx.net  Mon Dec  3 17:23:28 2001
From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar)
Date: Mon Dec  3 17:23:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <B8313AD9.4DBB%wndrlnd@gte.net>
References: <20011203200417.4F0A8907@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011204002245.00a25010@mail.gmx.net>

Thought about that as well... but won't there be the puzzle sign
above the bg image?

At 14:21 03.12.01 -0800, you wrote:
>on 12/3/01 12:04 PM, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org wrote:
>
> > Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
>
>You could always put the swf in a table and set the background image as your
>animated gif- this option is great for Flash emails, where javascript is
>obviously not an option-Mac users on IE won't see anything otherwise.
>; )




From muinar at gmx.net  Mon Dec  3 17:24:05 2001
From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar)
Date: Mon Dec  3 17:24:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <200112031705.fB3H5pZf018224@leo.evolt.org>
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B684B@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011204000823.00aa3060@mail.gmx.net>

Hi aardvark

You could always show a 'static swf' in Flash v2 (almost all systems
have it) and then test for Flash 5 in the Flash movie itself before
you advance to the motion.

Please tell me if you need some details for this kind of Flash test.

At 12:07 03.12.01 -0500, you wrote:
> > From: Fortune Elkins <fortune_elkins at summithq.com>
>[...]
> > to do this don't you just need to choose the correct publish setting
> > out of flash? if you publish out a gif with the right option, flash
> > will write out the code for you, right?
>[...]
>
>nope, Flash's HTML is pretty poor, even after you fix it...




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Mon Dec  3 17:26:34 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Dec  3 17:26:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Probs with Links
In-Reply-To: <03be01c17c4d$846dd100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
References: <038001c17c48$c697a100$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
 <010401c17c4a$8719e590$2860398a@newcos.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20011203143649.030a1630@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203151345.02ac28c0@mail.midtown.net>

Michele,

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. :-)

Nice layout, too, BTW. Good luck with the site.

Warmly,
Shirley

At 02:54 PM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>Shirley,
>
>That's what I thought too .. but for whatever reason, it wouldn't work
>properly.  Guess the rule is if you want some links to appear differently be
>sure to apply the same properties (elements) as regular links, but with the
>differences noted that you want, elsewise the missing properties will carry
>through.
>
>Seems rather illogical to me .. but so do a lot of other things... hehehe
>
>Mich
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>
>
>
>| At 02:40 PM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>|
>| I also think it will work fine if you don't even include a font weight in
>| your particular use here. I only include a font weight when I want it
>| different from the default normal. I can't recall having a problem with
>it.
>| If there's an inheritance issue, then of course I'd add the font weight.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  3 18:15:49 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec  3 18:15:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash degrading to .gif
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20011204002245.00a25010@mail.gmx.net>
References: <B8313AD9.4DBB%wndrlnd@gte.net>
Message-ID: <200112040015.fB40FnZf011576@leo.evolt.org>

> From: muinar <muinar at gmx.net>
>
> Thought about that as well... but won't there be the puzzle sign
> above the bg image?

there shouldn't be (we'll see for sure) simply because the user has 
chosen *not* to run the activex control...

the puzzle/cube/etc only shows up when it can't display it... i 
think...




From cilanntrus at dccnet.com  Mon Dec  3 18:43:15 2001
From: cilanntrus at dccnet.com (Daryl Grant)
Date: Mon Dec  3 18:43:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
Message-ID: <NFBBJDKMALLKICIOPFHIKEGPCCAA.cilanntrus@dccnet.com>

Erika Meyer writes:

> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me to
> use at work.


Erika,

I have had excellent experiences with Olympus cameras, specifically the E-10
(extremely high quality -- $2000USD), the E-100RS (quite good quality and
the ability to shoot rapid action at 15 fps -- $1500USD) and the C-700 Ultra
Zoom (decent quality for the price range with 10x _optical_ zoom --
$700USD).

All of these cameras have friendly menus that house many, many options
(including the ones you mentioned). The 'E' series is more along
professional quality lines, but the C-700 is an excellent camera. It uses
software that is very similar that used on the E-100 and E-10 -- and is
easier to use in some ways.

One of the best features common to all three of these digital cameras is
that they do not require software in order to download the images you have
taken -- you simply plug them in (via USB) and access them like you would
any other removeable drive (through a temporary drive letter, 'E:' for
example). As far as I know, Olympus is the only company doing this right
now.

Another great feature which is important to have (and not very common with
sub $1000USD cameras) is being able to take TIFF (uncompressed). They
require a lot of storage space, but sometimes having perfect quality is
necessary.

You can read my reviews of these cameras here:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympusc-700/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse100rs/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse10/index.html


Also, the Imaging Resource ( http://www.imaging-resource.com ) is exactly
what the name says it is :] (although beware of the 10,000 word reviews).

Daryl




From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Mon Dec  3 19:40:04 2001
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Mon Dec  3 19:40:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash 5 & duplicateMovieClip depth limits
Message-ID: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNCEFEFBAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>

Hey all,

Has anyone ever run into a limit on the depth you can set a movie clip to
using duplicateMovieClip() ?

I'm thinking of using numbers up to about 3,000,000.

I've seen in various places that flash chokes on values over 20,000 for
various things, but haven't seen anything about depths.

Any help (or even wild guesses) appreciated.

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au




From emailus at carbonchip.com  Mon Dec  3 20:56:45 2001
From: emailus at carbonchip.com (Carbon Chip)
Date: Mon Dec  3 20:56:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash 5 & duplicateMovieClip depth limits
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNCEFEFBAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>
Message-ID: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECMENPDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>

Lindsay

I've [in passing] heard figures of 60,000, but don't >quote< me on this,
just a distant and hazy rambling on FlashKit.com if i remember ok.

i'm intrigued to see a flash movie that needs a depth of 3 million! post it
if you can.

banrett
banrett at carbonchip.com


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Lindsay Evans
Sent: 04 December 2001 01:42
To: [thelist]
Subject: [thelist] Flash 5 & duplicateMovieClip depth limits



Hey all,

Has anyone ever run into a limit on the depth you can set a movie clip to
using duplicateMovieClip() ?

I'm thinking of using numbers up to about 3,000,000.

I've seen in various places that flash chokes on values over 20,000 for
various things, but haven't seen anything about depths.

Any help (or even wild guesses) appreciated.

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Mon Dec  3 21:52:17 2001
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Mon Dec  3 21:52:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Flash 5 & duplicateMovieClip depth limits
In-Reply-To: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECMENPDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNIEFLFBAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>

Well, after almost frying my cpu looping from 1 to 500 mil, I've worked out
that it doesn't like values above somewhere around 100,000,000, plenty big
enough for my purposes :o)

I'd post a link to said flash monstrosity, but its one of those highly
secret NDA'ed type things that I've been developing for the past 2 months.

I don't really need to use such large values for the depth, but I'm trying
to optimise the application, and the way I was calculating the depth before
was a bit of a nightmare.

I'll be sure to let everyone know when this goes live so they can point out
all the silly bugs that I've missed :o)

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Carbon Chip
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:56 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Flash 5 & duplicateMovieClip depth limits
>
>
> Lindsay
>
> I've [in passing] heard figures of 60,000, but don't >quote< me on this,
> just a distant and hazy rambling on FlashKit.com if i remember ok.
>
> i'm intrigued to see a flash movie that needs a depth of 3
> million! post it
> if you can.
>
> banrett
> banrett at carbonchip.com
<snip />




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 22:03:37 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Mon Dec  3 22:03:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <OFA607301B.A9483FC7-ON80256B17.003EB0B4@ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <20011204040458.97603.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't know if this is veering off-topic or swerving back on-topic ;-) but...

In ASP, would there be any wisdom in doing the browserdetect in the global.asa file and storing
the result in a session variable to reduce processor cycles for each page view? Any thoughts?

/rg

--- martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> >Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
> >switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
> >stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
> >user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
> >but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
> >use them?
> 
> Depends on your audience I think - the more aware of the technicalities
> the users are, the more you can give them access to (and with less
> explanation).
> 
> So for a general audience, you might give them an "Enlarge/Reduce
> text" option. For a web-dev audience such as ALA's or evolt's, you'd
> give them a much wider range of elements to play with. And what you
> might do is have a nice preview which lets you experiment a bit before you
> saved a preference.
> 
> Of course, you'd need to explain what all the non-standard elements do...
> 
> Cheers
> Martin
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Mon Dec  3 23:25:33 2001
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Mon Dec  3 23:25:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML Newbie Question
Message-ID: <000e01c17c84$3d27cb70$a541000a@spaceball1>

I'm a competent ASP/SQL/VBScript programmer, but XML/XSL/DTD
technologies seem to elude me. Here's my situation:

There's an XML feed for Fark.com (http://www.fark.com/xml.xml). I'd like
to write an ASP page that parses through this XML file and puts the Fark
headlines on my site (I'm making my own portal page with favorite links,
etc on it).

How do I parse the XML file (hopefully with ASP)?

Thanks in advance!

-ken




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Mon Dec  3 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Mon Dec  3 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 03-DEC-01
Message-ID: <200112040555.fB45t1E8022363@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 03-DEC-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Community News: Have your say - evolt.org survey (Author: djc)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/27/18041/index.html

Here's your chance to provide feedback on evolt.org... the community
and its services. What do you love and/or hate most about evolt.org?
Have your say now ...




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Mon Dec  3 23:56:10 2001
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Mon Dec  3 23:56:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <000e01c17c84$3d27cb70$a541000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNGEFPFBAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>

> There's an XML feed for Fark.com (http://www.fark.com/xml.xml).

erm, I get a 404, was that just an example URL?

> How do I parse the XML file (hopefully with ASP)?

found this:

http://www.15seconds.com/Issue/990527.htm

on google [http://www.google.com/search?q=xml+news+parsing+asp]

plus there is a bunch of stuff on xml parsing on MSDN

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au






From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Tue Dec  4 00:03:19 2001
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Tue Dec  4 00:03:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNGEFPFBAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>
Message-ID: <001001c17c89$875f0640$a541000a@spaceball1>

Sorry, it was case-sensitive - http://www.fark.com/XML.xml

Thanks for the links... I guess I shoulda been looking outside evolt.org
:-)

~Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Evans
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:58 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] XML Newbie Question



> There's an XML feed for Fark.com (http://www.fark.com/xml.xml).

erm, I get a 404, was that just an example URL?

> How do I parse the XML file (hopefully with ASP)?

found this:

http://www.15seconds.com/Issue/990527.htm

on google [http://www.google.com/search?q=xml+news+parsing+asp]

plus there is a bunch of stuff on xml parsing on MSDN

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 vox: 8596.4000
 fax: 8596.4001
 web: www.redsquare.com.au




---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From QandA at SunMatrix.com  Tue Dec  4 01:28:46 2001
From: QandA at SunMatrix.com (Sunil Bahl)
Date: Tue Dec  4 01:28:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Stacking
Message-ID: <010101c17c95$d553e120$9523fea9@sunilbahl>

Hi,

I have asked the below question elsewhere, but have not got any satisfactory
answer. So I am posting it here in hope that I will get an answer which will
help me take a decision. My question is as follows:

In order to cut costs I am planning to put web site X (x.com) on the same
server space as web site Y (y.com). I am at the moment debating on wether I
should use mydomain.com's free stealth re-direction option to redirect x.com
to a folder on y.com or get my web hosts to stack x.com on a folder at y.com
for $10.

Both seem to be giving me the same facilities. So can some one please tell
me about the pros and cons of taking the free service and the pros and cons
of taking the paid service. Has anyone had experince with both?? Which one
do u think is better and why??

Await your reply's.

Best Wishes,
Sunil.

SunMatrix: "You dream it and it will be created"
http://www.SunMatrix.com







From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Tue Dec  4 01:46:09 2001
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Tue Dec  4 01:46:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Stacking
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AD2C@SBS>

Hi Sunil!

Personally, I read your description 3 or 4 times and I can't really work out
*what* they are offering when they talk about stacking. It's not a term I've
heard of before. Do you perhaps have a link to the page where they describe
the srevice? That would make it easier to work out what is being offered.

(Someone else will probably/hopefully now come along and explain that it's
an industry standard term that has existed for years ;-)

.steve


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------



From gnarly at punkass.com  Tue Dec  4 04:09:49 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Dec  4 04:09:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
Message-ID: <00bc01c17cab$eee1c5b0$0100a8c0@Comp2>

One for the unix guru geezers...

A friend wants to know...

> Anyone know how to monitor failed telnet connections?
> And by this I mean refused telnet connections from the server end.

Thanks in adnvance,


Olly.







From tonicc at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  4 04:54:14 2001
From: tonicc at hotmail.com (Niklas Odebo)
Date: Tue Dec  4 04:54:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
Message-ID: <LAW2-F85SnRMWuLn5U900018b2d@hotmail.com>

I'm kind of a beginner still so dont take my word for it,
but in most cases refused telnet connections are written to 
/var/log/messages and /var/adm/messages


>From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at punkass.com>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
>Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:10:41 -0000
>
>One for the unix guru geezers...
>
>A friend wants to know...
>
> > Anyone know how to monitor failed telnet connections?
> > And by this I mean refused telnet connections from the server end.
>
>Thanks in adnvance,
>
>
>Olly.
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From bimal.shah at venus.co.uk  Tue Dec  4 05:20:49 2001
From: bimal.shah at venus.co.uk (Bimal Shah)
Date: Tue Dec  4 05:20:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"
Message-ID: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCOEEKCMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>

Hi,

Is there any way to transfer "content" e.g value in a coldfusion
variable via ftp WITHOUT creating a file on the 
local server first place?

At the moment I am using cffile:write to place content into a file then
using cfftp:putfile to place this file on the remote server. 
Ideally I would like to transfer content directly 
via ftp.

The reason I don't like to create this file is:
1. Resource: creating lots of temporary files on local server
2. Need to delete the file after it has been used for ftp
3. Security (maybe possible for someone to view these files)
4. Possibility of 'orphan' files if process terminates before
cleaning up etc (or ftp processes fail etc)

cheers

Bimal

---
Bimal Shah (Senior Web Developer)
(T) 020 7240 5858 (F) 020 7240 5859
(E) bimal at venus.co.uk
Venus Internet Limited http://www.venus.co.uk




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Tue Dec  4 05:49:24 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Tue Dec  4 05:49:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
References: <LAW2-F85SnRMWuLn5U900018b2d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c17cb1$3b603160$0100007f@mar>

if it's refusing by derver, not loosing connection by pppd
> I'm kind of a beginner still so dont take my word for it,
> but in most cases refused telnet connections are written to
> /var/log/messages and /var/adm/messages
>
>
> >From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at punkass.com>
> >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> >Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
> >Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:10:41 -0000
> >
> >One for the unix guru geezers...
> >
> >A friend wants to know...
> >
> > > Anyone know how to monitor failed telnet connections?
> > > And by this I mean refused telnet connections from the server end.
> >
> >Thanks in adnvance,
> >
> >
> >Olly.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From gnarly at punkass.com  Tue Dec  4 05:58:18 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Dec  4 05:58:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
References: <LAW2-F85SnRMWuLn5U900018b2d@hotmail.com> <000b01c17cb1$3b603160$0100007f@mar>
Message-ID: <001301c17cbc$2d00fd60$0100a8c0@Comp2>

Thanks for those responses - it made him clarify what hes after:

He wants to log rejected telnet connections on the basis of resource or
license limits.

Thanks,

Olly.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maryanna Nesina" <mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Telnet Question


> if it's refusing by derver, not loosing connection by pppd

> > I'm kind of a beginner still so dont take my word for it,
> > but in most cases refused telnet connections are written to
> > /var/log/messages and /var/adm/messages
> >
> > >From: "Olly Hodgson" <gnarly at punkass.com>
> > >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > >To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > >Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
> > >Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:10:41 -0000
> > >
> > >One for the unix guru geezers...
> > >
> > >A friend wants to know...
> > >
> > > > Anyone know how to monitor failed telnet connections?
> > > > And by this I mean refused telnet connections from the server end.





From cilanntrus at dccnet.com  Tue Dec  4 06:53:11 2001
From: cilanntrus at dccnet.com (Daryl Grant)
Date: Tue Dec  4 06:53:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] digital camera
Message-ID: <NFBBJDKMALLKICIOPFHIKEGPCCAA.cilanntrus@dccnet.com>

Erika Meyer writes:

> My department has said they are willing to buy a digital camera for me to
> use at work.


Erika,

I have had excellent experiences with Olympus cameras, specifically the E-10
(extremely high quality -- $2000USD), the E-100RS (quite good quality and
the ability to shoot rapid action at 15 fps -- $1500USD) and the C-700 Ultra
Zoom (decent quality for the price range with 10x _optical_ zoom --
$700USD).

All of these cameras have friendly menus that house many, many options
(including the ones you mentioned). The 'E' series is more along
professional quality lines, but the C-700 is an excellent camera. It uses
software that is very similar that used on the E-100 and E-10 -- and is
easier to use in some ways.

One of the best features common to all three of these digital cameras is
that they do not require software in order to download the images you have
taken -- you simply plug them in (via USB) and access them like you would
any other removeable drive (through a temporary drive letter, 'E:' for
example). As far as I know, Olympus is the only company doing this right
now.

Another great feature which is important to have (and not very common with
sub $1000USD cameras) is being able to take TIFF (uncompressed). They
require a lot of storage space, but sometimes having perfect quality is
necessary.

You can read my reviews of these cameras here:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympusc-700/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse100rs/index.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/olympuse10/index.html


Also, the Imaging Resource ( http://www.imaging-resource.com ) is exactly
what the name says it is :] (although beware of the 10,000 word reviews).

Daryl




From matthew.garrett at snet.net  Tue Dec  4 06:59:44 2001
From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett)
Date: Tue Dec  4 06:59:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"
In-Reply-To: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCOEEKCMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8323527.91B5%matthew.garrett@snet.net>

The cfcontent tag can deliver the content directly to the user as a text
file (or other things) via their browser. No messy accumulation of files
needed. Just use the deletefile attribute in the tag.

I learned this from thelist, of course.

Good luck.
matt

> From: "Bimal Shah" <bimal.shah at venus.co.uk>

> Is there any way to transfer "content" e.g value in a coldfusion
> variable via ftp WITHOUT creating a file on the
> local server first place?





From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Tue Dec  4 07:15:44 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Dec  4 07:15:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"
In-Reply-To: <B8323527.91B5%matthew.garrett@snet.net>
Message-ID: <00d901c17cc6$b5753210$6401a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>

I don't think this is what he wants though. He wants to send a file from
his server to a FTP server, not to the user. As far as I know, Bimal,
this is not possible. However, you can use GetTempFile() and use that
result for your filename. I believe the OS will auto clean up the file
later, or you can just delete it after the upload.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of matthew garrett
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:09 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"
> 
> 
> The cfcontent tag can deliver the content directly to the 
> user as a text
> file (or other things) via their browser. No messy 
> accumulation of files
> needed. Just use the deletefile attribute in the tag.
> 
> I learned this from thelist, of course.
> 
> Good luck.
> matt
> 
> > From: "Bimal Shah" <bimal.shah at venus.co.uk>
> 
> > Is there any way to transfer "content" e.g value in a coldfusion
> > variable via ftp WITHOUT creating a file on the
> > local server first place?
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From bimal.shah at venus.co.uk  Tue Dec  4 07:16:29 2001
From: bimal.shah at venus.co.uk (Bimal Shah)
Date: Tue Dec  4 07:16:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"
In-Reply-To: <B8323527.91B5%matthew.garrett@snet.net>
Message-ID: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCMEENCMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>

How exactly do you use cfcontent so that from a cf variable e.g

<cfset html_content = "Hello World">

to passing localfile using CFFTP e.g

<cfftp action="PUTFILE" stoponerror="No" localfile="??????"
remotefile="#FileOnRemoteSite#" transfermode="ASCII" connection="test"
passive="#passive#">

What do you put in ???????

It wants a file to send, it will not "run" the file (so using cfcontent
is no good).

Bimal


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of matthew garrett
Sent: 04 December 2001 13:09
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP without source "file"


The cfcontent tag can deliver the content directly to the user as a text
file (or other things) via their browser. No messy accumulation of files
needed. Just use the deletefile attribute in the tag.

I learned this from thelist, of course.

Good luck.
matt

> From: "Bimal Shah" <bimal.shah at venus.co.uk>

> Is there any way to transfer "content" e.g value in a coldfusion
> variable via ftp WITHOUT creating a file on the
> local server first place?



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From mrscleo at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  4 08:54:10 2001
From: mrscleo at hotmail.com (Cleo TB1124)
Date: Tue Dec  4 08:54:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML Newbie Question
Message-ID: <F116GSwiINIvC1uJIKL0000922c@hotmail.com>

Hi Ken

I'm on vacation these days (yeah!!!) and I'll be home this weekend. I have 
something already written that will do just what you want in ASP and in PHP 
but it's home.
There are lots of links also that you can find that will tell you how to 
parse XML. It's only a matter of a few lines.

I really should get my act together and write that how-to article, for both 
ASP and PHP. This question is coming up more and more often.

Nic
from the beach :)

>There's an XML feed for Fark.com (http://www.fark.com/xml.xml). I'd like
>to write an ASP page that parses through this XML file and puts the Fark
>headlines on my site (I'm making my own portal page with favorite links,
>etc on it).
>How do I parse the XML file (hopefully with ASP)?
>-ken


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From bharoche at usa.net  Tue Dec  4 09:34:58 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Tue Dec  4 09:34:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Stacking
References: <010101c17c95$d553e120$9523fea9@sunilbahl>
Message-ID: <002001c17cd9$672092e0$9865fea9@Laptop>

I don't know about stacking, but I do use MyDomain for various domains.
However, I only use that service for "secondary domains", i.e., those which
are not the main domains for a business.  For instance, if my client has a
business domain:

www.ClientBusiness.com

That I'll set up real (virtual) hosting for.  If the client buys another
domain simply to take it off the market to protect their brand but never
intend to use it in their promotional materials, like:

www.Client-Business.com OR
www.ClientBusiness.net

That I'll set up with MyDomain, and re-direct to the main (virtually hosted)
site.

I would NOT use MyDomain to "host" a site that needs to be available 100% to
the public, because I find their servers have too much down time.  Even 2%
down time is a lot for a business site, or a well trafficked non-commercial
site.

HTH,

Bob

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From morbus at disobey.com  Tue Dec  4 09:35:24 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Tue Dec  4 09:35:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC: Top Margin Network Bar?
In-Reply-To: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIMENKDCAA.lists@prydain.com>
References: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIMENKDCAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <p05101002b8329dad7b4f@[63.173.138.146]>

>> I'm interested to see what people have to say about "top margin
>> network bars".
>
>If done correctly, they can be an incredibly useful and non-obtrusive
>way to link relatesd sites together.  The trick, I think, is to make
>them easy to read, intuitive and consistent.

Ray, just want to thank you for your comments on this thread. Whilst you
were the only one to answer on the Evolt list, I got some other comments
from friends, romans, and countrymen, and they were all positive as well.

Thanks again!

-- 
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus



From cliverping at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  4 09:55:08 2001
From: cliverping at hotmail.com (P. Z.)
Date: Tue Dec  4 09:55:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 browser problem - apply style to select box
Message-ID: <LAW2-F97DpKGqJYF9Ug00005ff9@hotmail.com>

Hi everyone!

My first question is simple but really painful.  I have finished the page 
with all user input boxes, different kinds.  After user inputs, I put their 
answers to a list select box.  To make sure that the select box looks not 
too bad, I have applied a style to them to give a width and height.  It 
works all right with IE, but NOT with Netscape 4.7.  Apparently it doesn't 
work with Netscape 4.7.  Any solution?

here is the code:

<!--
.formBox { width: 160px; height: 100px}
-->

<select name="menu2" size=3 multiple class="formBox"></select>

The options will be filled with some other JavaScript, so don't worry about 
it.  

Thanks.
Ping 

_________________________________________________________________
???? MSN Hotmail ?? http://www.hotmail.com/cn ????????




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Tue Dec  4 10:12:20 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Tue Dec  4 10:12:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 browser problem - apply style to select box
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F97DpKGqJYF9Ug00005ff9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEGFCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

P.Z,
	i hate this problem, i use ASP to do detection for me on the netscape
issue and then style appropriately - pixel widths do not work in NS input
fields - solutions are:
NS detection and display different - or place size=30 (or whatever) on the
fields and IE will ignore and use the style, where as netscape will use the
size attribute.

My style sheets are include file and normally .htm one, so the file would
start off:

<style type="text/css">
<!--
The i can do ASP detection in here - where as with a .css you cannot (as far
as I'm aware)
//-->
</style>
and on my main page i'd have: <!--#include file="includes/ThisStyle.htm"-->

If you want some code for detection let me know and i'll send you a page if
you want.

cheers

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On
Behalf Of P. Z.
Sent: 04 December 2001 15:56
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 browser problem - apply style to select box


Hi everyone!

My first question is simple but really painful.  I have finished the page
with all user input boxes, different kinds.  After user inputs, I put their
answers to a list select box.  To make sure that the select box looks not
too bad, I have applied a style to them to give a width and height.  It
works all right with IE, but NOT with Netscape 4.7.  Apparently it doesn't
work with Netscape 4.7.  Any solution?

here is the code:

<!--
.formBox { width: 160px; height: 100px}
-->

<select name="menu2" size=3 multiple class="formBox"></select>

The options will be filled with some other JavaScript, so don't worry about
it.

Thanks.
Ping

_________________________________________________________________
???? MSN Hotmail ?? http://www.hotmail.com/cn ????????


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Tue Dec  4 10:35:23 2001
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Tue Dec  4 10:35:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <F116GSwiINIvC1uJIKL0000922c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c17ce1$cff6ac20$a541000a@spaceball1>

You're answering email on the beach? I thought using a laptop and a cell
phone on a tour bus cruising down the freeway was bad...

Thanks for the offer. I'd like to see that code when you get back from
vacation.

~Ken (who till recently thought of himself as a geek)

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Cleo TB1124
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:55 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] XML Newbie Question


Hi Ken

I'm on vacation these days (yeah!!!) and I'll be home this weekend. I
have 
something already written that will do just what you want in ASP and in
PHP 
but it's home.
There are lots of links also that you can find that will tell you how to

parse XML. It's only a matter of a few lines.

I really should get my act together and write that how-to article, for
both 
ASP and PHP. This question is coming up more and more often.

Nic
from the beach :)

>There's an XML feed for Fark.com (http://www.fark.com/xml.xml). I'd 
>like to write an ASP page that parses through this XML file and puts 
>the Fark headlines on my site (I'm making my own portal page with 
>favorite links, etc on it). How do I parse the XML file (hopefully with

>ASP)? -ken


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Tue Dec  4 11:58:46 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Tue Dec  4 11:58:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape 4.7 browser problem - apply style to select box
References: <LAW2-F97DpKGqJYF9Ug00005ff9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D0F73.6020903@yahoo.ca>

P. Z. wrote:

> put their answers to a list select box.  To make sure that the
> select box looks not too bad, I have applied a style to them to
> give a width and height.  It works all right with IE, but NOT with

Do exactly the opposite. Size the form elements in Netscape 4.x, then
use syle sheets to "match" that size in IE.

More details at:
<http://www.saila.com/usage/tips/#textfield>


-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From joshfeingold at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  4 12:02:19 2001
From: joshfeingold at hotmail.com (Josh Feingold)
Date: Tue Dec  4 12:02:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Array
Message-ID: <F69lhNOuFBkBX81wDQo0001f0a0@hotmail.com>

I am trying to create a search engine for my company's Intranet and have hit 
a wall.

Basically, the information about each page is stored in a database.  The 
search information provided by the user is matched to the database and each 
page is given a score.  This score is then put into an VB array (I am using 
ASP) where the key is the row number from the database (which represents the 
page) and the item is score.

The question I have is how to sort this information by highest score so I 
can display the results.  Most of the sort functions I have seen won't work 
since they rearrange the key when they sort.  If I lose the key I loose the 
connection from the score back to the page.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Josh

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Dec  4 12:17:12 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Dec  4 12:17:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Array
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E6803@apollo.ti3.com>

> search information provided by the user is matched to the 
> database and each 
> 
> The question I have is how to sort this information by 

You gots a db, let the db do the sorting =)

knowwhatImean?

sgd



From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 12:39:44 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Tue Dec  4 12:39:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] INDEX SERVER
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBKEDFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

I guess Index Server defaults to using OR Boolean logic for a given search
string of words. Is there anyway to make it do AND instead of OR.

i.e. if I do a search with search string "procrastination techniques" it
will only find documents with both the words "procrastination" and
"techniques"

THANKS!
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From liz.hincks at tufts.edu  Tue Dec  4 13:12:21 2001
From: liz.hincks at tufts.edu (Elizabeth Hincks)
Date: Tue Dec  4 13:12:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
References: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBKEDFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D206A.29B59301@tufts.edu>

Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio for the web?  I want
something simple that I can hook up and tape a lecture  in a classroom...Then
I'll download it into my PC and compress it with SoundForge.    My co-worker
is talking about mixers and microphones and tigers...oh my!!

Anyone have a real simple set up that works relatively good?

$$$ is not an object....well ....within reason.

thanks,
Liz



--
-------
Elizabeth L. Hincks
liz.hincks at tufts.edu
http://www.fletcher.tufts.edu





From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 13:22:48 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Tue Dec  4 13:22:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <3C0D206A.29B59301@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <20011204192414.24763.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

If you've got a good budget, then get a DAT recorder and spend the rest of your money on a
*really* good lapel microphone. All the SoundForge in the world won't sweeten a poorly-captured
source. 

You can find some techniques and advice here: 
http://homerecording.about.com/cs/recordingtips/

hth
/rg

--- Elizabeth Hincks <liz.hincks at tufts.edu> wrote:
> 
> Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio for the web?  I want
> something simple that I can hook up and tape a lecture  in a classroom...Then
> I'll download it into my PC and compress it with SoundForge.    My co-worker
> is talking about mixers and microphones and tigers...oh my!!
> 
> Anyone have a real simple set up that works relatively good?
> 
> $$$ is not an object....well ....within reason.
> 
> thanks,
> Liz
> 
> 
> 
> --
> -------
> Elizabeth L. Hincks
> liz.hincks at tufts.edu
> http://www.fletcher.tufts.edu


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From QandA at SunMatrix.com  Tue Dec  4 13:24:06 2001
From: QandA at SunMatrix.com (Sunil Bahl)
Date: Tue Dec  4 13:24:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Domain Stacking
Message-ID: <005001c17cf9$c40ef4e0$1a0010ac@powersurfer.net>

Hi Steve,

>>Personally, I read your description 3 or 4 times and I can't really work
out
>>*what* they are offering when they talk about stacking.

The following is what stacking means (i have copy pasted it from the
original page. There is nothing more to it):

"Stacked Domains
A stacked domain is a domain that points to a directory within your main
domain. This can be useful if you do not need a completely new account for
another domain that you own.

The email system between the two domains will be shared. For example,
sending/receiving email on usr5 at your-stacked-domain.com is the same as
sending/receiving email on usr5 at your-main-domain.com.

The stacked domain will not be able to use autoresponders, email redirects,
or mail lists.

The stacked domain will not have any preinstalled scripts. "

I can do everything with e-mail forwarding and my main sites cgi scripts. So
visually there won't be any difference. In my eyes there is no difference in
what is explained above and what mydomain.com is offering, except that the
above costs $ and mydomain.com stealth re-direction is free.

Maybe a second pair of eyes can see something I have missed. So do u see
anything I have overlooked? So should I go for free or paid??

Await your reply.

Best Wishes,
Sunil.

SunMatrix: "You dream it and it will be created"
http://www.SunMatrix.com

>>From: "Sunil Bahl" <QandA at SunMatrix.com>
>>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>>Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:22:53 +0530
>>Subject: [thelist] Domain Stacking


I>>n order to cut costs I am planning to put web site X (x.com) on the same
>>server space as web site Y (y.com). I am at the moment debating on wether
I
>>should use mydomain.com's free stealth re-direction option to redirect
x.com
>>to a folder on y.com or get my web hosts to stack x.com on a folder at
y.com
>>for $10.





From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Dec  4 13:24:55 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Dec  4 13:24:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <3C0D206A.29B59301@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIOEMJCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

Get a 1/8" stereo miniplug cable at something like a Radio Shack to plug
into the output of the recording device (hand-held tape or minidisc recorder
would be fine). Plug the other end into the line input of the soundcard on
your PC. Open Sound Forge and click the red record button (and the play
button on the tape/minidisc device) to get the audio to Sound Forge via
real-time analog. Results should be fine. You will not need a mixer unless
you are using multiple sound sources

BH

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Hincks
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:14 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
>
>
>
> Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio for the web?  I want
> something simple that I can hook up and tape a lecture  in a
> classroom...Then
> I'll download it into my PC and compress it with SoundForge.
> My co-worker
> is talking about mixers and microphones and tigers...oh my!!
>
> Anyone have a real simple set up that works relatively good?
>
> $$$ is not an object....well ....within reason.
>
> thanks,
> Liz
>
>
>
> --
> -------
> Elizabeth L. Hincks
> liz.hincks at tufts.edu
> http://www.fletcher.tufts.edu
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From marty at face2interface.com  Tue Dec  4 13:33:42 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Tue Dec  4 13:33:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] complementary color picker
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204143135.00a273e0@pop.ulster.net>

Hi,

I've just added a websafe color selector tool to my business site which 
lets you click on any color to view other parts of the
palette... what's quite different than my older version is that 
complementary colors are displayed in adjacent cells.

http://face2interface.com/WebSafe

Or you can get there from the FAQ page which also contains a hex/dec/%age 
converter javascript calculator at the bottom.

http://face2interface.com/MYD/Developer_Tips/WebSafe_Colors.shtml

Marty

Face 2 Interface Web Sites
Website Creation Made SIMPL(tm)
http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml




From djc at members.evolt.org  Tue Dec  4 14:11:53 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:11:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] UK/CAN/US Contracts & other Web Development Specific legal resources
 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112041411440.14097-100000@leo.evolt.org>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:10:26 -0800 (PST)
From: TRG <java_fella at yahoo.com>
To: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
Subject: UK/CAN/US Contracts & other Web Development Specific legal
    resources

You can get them all at: 

http://www.proposalkit.com/info.htm

or

http://www.presentationkit.com/info.htm

It's a bargain no matter which one you go with. The
contracts have been written to conform to UK/US/CAN
law (you get all three versions in the Pro Edition).

Regardless, you can use the content list as a
checklist as you try to find and adapt other docs..

Good luck!

Tom

http://www.templatekit.com

> Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am
not to sure how I 
should
> write cont[r]acts between me and clients.  I was
wondering if someone 
could
> help me, or had any general contracts I could use as
examples. Thank 
you!
> 
> thanks,
> Jeff Klassen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com




From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Dec  4 14:22:58 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:22:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] secure certs
Message-ID: <3C0CC6D4.12145.B99770@localhost>

Don't know if this has been covered recently so I thought I'd pass it on. I just 
had to replace a secure SSL certificate and discovered that Verisign's 
monopoly has finally been broken in spite of their M$ style attempts to buy 
out competitors when their patent expired.
Got a 128 bit cert for $99 and from the time I generated the request to the 
time I installed the new cert was less than 2 minutes!!
It's chained on the Thawte Certificate Authority and signed through Equifax 
so all 128 bit browsers will treat it just like any CA chained RSA cert. 
http://www.geotrust.com
keith





From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  4 14:34:28 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:34:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <3C0D206A.29B59301@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <200112042034.fB4KYRZf027090@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Elizabeth Hincks <liz.hincks at tufts.edu>
> 
> Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio for the web?  I want
> something simple that I can hook up and tape a lecture  in a
> classroom...Then I'll download it into my PC and compress it with
> SoundForge.    My co-worker is talking about mixers and microphones
> and tigers...oh my!!
> 
> Anyone have a real simple set up that works relatively good?
[...]

i've been on both sides of this... i've had a few years in the concert 
world of mixing on high-end equipment and i've had studio 
experience as well... but i've also done some sweet stuff on a 
home PC with crappy microphones and freeware audio editors...

your scenario could be simple... you could get by with the 
microphone that ships with the PC, and just record straight to the 
hard drive... you could encode to MP3 or whatever later on... years 
ago, i used the free RealAudio encoder to record and compress on 
the fly for a live broadcast off a cheap mic, and then left the 
resultant file on the server to be accessed via HTTP pseudo-
streaming... worked like a charm...

or you could get a good shotgun mic, a DAT or MiniDisc recorder, 
sample that into your PC, clean and chop, and compress however 
you want...

or anything in between...

remember, after compression for broadcast over the internet, if you 
shoot for lower bandwidths, pristine audio isn't going to be a major 
factor...

ok... hope some of that rambling helped...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  4 14:37:52 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:37:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] INDEX SERVER
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBKEDFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200112042037.fB4KbpZf027386@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Josh Spiegel" <joshsquared at yahoo.com>
>
> I guess Index Server defaults to using OR Boolean logic for a given
> search string of words. Is there anyway to make it do AND instead of
> OR.

dunno if the code i sent off-list helped or not, but the general gist 
for everyone is to treat the search criteria entered just as a 
suggestion...

if you want to do a freetext search, you may need to modify it... if 
you want to handle for booleans, you may have to run replaces... 
even for things like NOT, you'll have to handle for it...

from there, construct your query and you should be all set...




From ezrasf at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 14:41:01 2001
From: ezrasf at yahoo.com (Ezra S F)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:41:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Telnet Question
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F85SnRMWuLn5U900018b2d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CKEKKBAACIIJCJDNLDMLOEPOFPAA.ezrasf@yahoo.com>

> > Anyone know how to monitor failed telnet connections?
> > And by this I mean refused telnet connections from the server end.

Hmmmmmm. Solaris keeps connection refused messages in /var/wrapper.log and
connection messages in lastlog. The command "last -20" will show the last 20
login attempts. Any that last 0:00 mean they failed to connect.

Ezra Freelove
Home:  http://www.valdosta.edu/~esfreelo/
Blog:  http://sneezypb.pitas.com/







From ftarzwell at fayec.com  Tue Dec  4 14:46:53 2001
From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC))
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:46:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Domain Stacking
References: <005001c17cf9$c40ef4e0$1a0010ac@powersurfer.net>
Message-ID: <3C0D366A.5EBCCDCA@fayec.com>

That sounds more like just a normal domain redirection....
You can have all that with MyDomain.com for free....
Email forwarding to the email you want, domain redirection and even
stealth redirection (if you don't mind the frames....).
I don't understand why they gave it a different name though......maybe
to sound more attractive???
Who knows.....

<tip type="productivity" author="FayeC">

Always save a copy of your Macromedia extensions in a separate HD (or if
you have a burner on a CD).
In case you need to format your HD you won't have to search the entire
Macromedia Exchange for the extensions you used to have installed and
now forgot the name or can't find through a search.
After reinstalling your Macromedia programs you can reinstall the
extensions from your backup cd or hd saving time and keeping your
sanity.

</tip>
-- 
Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC)
Web Designer/Developer
http://www.fayec.com
Phone: (519)576-9985
Cell: (416)873-0332
E-mail: ftarzwell at fayec.com



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Dec  4 14:48:14 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:48:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <200112042034.fB4KYRZf027090@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIOEMMCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> remember, after compression for broadcast over the internet, if you
> shoot for lower bandwidths, pristine audio isn't going to be a major
> factor...

I don't wish to be contradictory, but this is a bit opposite of our
experience here at the radio station I work with. If we're not careful with
the source audio, especially high-end distortion that isn't so audible in
the source, the encoding process for lower bandwidths exposes the problems
and magnifies them in the form of high-end audible artifacts that you really
can't miss. (Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, and this doesn't actually
contradict at all, but here's my mouth running anyway). Probably good to
keep both the source and the destination of the sound in mind when forming a
solution.

BH




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  4 14:56:57 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec  4 14:56:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIOEMMCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
References: <200112042034.fB4KYRZf027090@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112042056.fB4KuuZf028945@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Bill Haenel" <bill at webmarketingworx.com>
>
> > remember, after compression for broadcast over the internet, if you
> > shoot for lower bandwidths, pristine audio isn't going to be a major
> > factor...
> 
> I don't wish to be contradictory, but this is a bit opposite of our
> experience here at the radio station I work with. If we're not careful
> with the source audio, especially high-end distortion that isn't so
> audible in the source, the encoding process for lower bandwidths
> exposes the problems and magnifies them in the form of high-end

not contradictory, no... i was talking more about flat audio and the 
like... for instance, your crispness is gonna disappear at lower 
sample rates and the like...

however, i'm curious about your compression methods or 
algorithms... i've experienced what you describe, but it hasn't been 
as much of a factor for me, perhaps simply because of my 
expectations...

> audible artifacts that you really can't miss. (Perhaps I misunderstood
> your meaning, and this doesn't actually contradict at all, but here's
> my mouth running anyway). Probably good to keep both the source and
> the destination of the sound in mind when forming a solution.

absotively... which is ultimately what i meant...



From jonhall at ozline.net  Tue Dec  4 15:03:03 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:03:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
References: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBKEDFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com> <3C0D206A.29B59301@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <01b601c17d07$cf90f030$a41f88d8@ns2>

http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_500201.html

I've been drooling over the Archos stuff for awhile...and you wont need
SoundForge or anything else.

jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Hincks" <liz.hincks at tufts.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 2:13 PM
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question


>
> Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio for the web?  I want
> something simple that I can hook up and tape a lecture  in a
classroom...Then
> I'll download it into my PC and compress it with SoundForge.    My
co-worker
> is talking about mixers and microphones and tigers...oh my!!
>
> Anyone have a real simple set up that works relatively good?
>
> $$$ is not an object....well ....within reason.
>
> thanks,
> Liz
>
>
>
> --
> -------
> Elizabeth L. Hincks
> liz.hincks at tufts.edu
> http://www.fletcher.tufts.edu
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From andrea at geonetric.com  Tue Dec  4 15:21:00 2001
From: andrea at geonetric.com (Andrea Belk)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:21:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Setting Form field Size.
Message-ID: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBOEPAGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>

Anyone off hand know how to set the width of a form field that is compatable
in NN?

Thanks in Advance!

Sincerely,

Andrea A Belk
Creative Director
Geonetric Technologies
200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401

[P] 319.221.1667
[F] 319.221.1450
[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
www.geonetric.com




From andrea at geonetric.com  Tue Dec  4 15:21:03 2001
From: andrea at geonetric.com (Andrea Belk)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:21:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
Message-ID: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPBGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>

I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group of print
designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design for the web'. It's
not so much their graphic skills that I'm concerned about, but the little
design tricks that only a seasoned designer knows, that makes the job run
smoother.

They know little to nothing about content architecture or how things 'work'
on the web.

Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I have 3 2-hour
training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people).

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely,

Andrea A Belk
Creative Director
Geonetric Technologies
200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401

[P] 319.221.1667
[F] 319.221.1450
[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
www.geonetric.com




From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Dec  4 15:24:30 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:24:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <200112042056.fB4KuuZf028945@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIMEMPCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> > with the source audio, especially high-end distortion that isn't so
> > audible in the source, the encoding process for lower bandwidths
> > exposes the problems and magnifies them in the form of high-end
>
> not contradictory, no... i was talking more about flat audio and the
> like... for instance, your crispness is gonna disappear at lower
> sample rates and the like...
>
> however, i'm curious about your compression methods or
> algorithms... i've experienced what you describe, but it hasn't been
> as much of a factor for me, perhaps simply because of my
> expectations...

Well, at this time we're using audio that's compressed for on-air broadcast.
What we're finding is that our compression for on-air is NOT optimal for
webcast, as it's dynamic range is a bit too broad. We're shopping for
separate equipment to process our web audio, then we'll run that to our
encoder. In spite of all of this, our audio (we run two streams: 32k WM and
32k Real) is some of the best low-bandwidth stuff I've heard. One of the
secrets (shhh - don't tell anyone!) is encoding in mono - one channel, but
twice as much data for that one channel as you'd have for each of the
separate stereo channels (sort of). Of course, you don't get the stereo
effect, but overall the audio is much better. We're currently running our
Real stream in stereo as an experiment. But the way it's sounding, until
encoding techniques improve significantly, we'll probably run both of our
low-bandwidth streams in mono. Please feel free to have a listen (shameless
plug): http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/ncpr/ppr.pprmain.

BH




From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Tue Dec  4 15:30:11 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:30:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Setting Form field Size.
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBOEPAGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204132442.00ab7198@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>

best way, IMO, is to use the size attribute to set what you want in NN, 
then override it with CSS for IE (and other CSS ready browsers).

so, <input type="text" size="12" style="width:120px;">

basically, play/test on NN to your liking, then define exactly for 
CSS-browsers. (because the CSS will override the size= if the browser is 
aware, and harmlessly ignore if unaware.

(ps: don't forget to check on the mac/pc too, as forms vary significantly.)

  this page has a good chart of sizes: 
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/41/index3a_page5.html?tw=design
and here's the accompanying zip file of the pieces, for inspection in 
photoshop: http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/41/stuff3a/parts.zip

hth,
nate

At 03:22 PM 12/4/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>Anyone off hand know how to set the width of a form field that is compatable
>in NN?
>
>Thanks in Advance!
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Andrea A Belk
>Creative Director
>Geonetric Technologies
>200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401
>
>[P] 319.221.1667
>[F] 319.221.1450
>[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
>www.geonetric.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From martin at takingitglobal.org  Tue Dec  4 15:30:25 2001
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:30:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPBGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <000601c17d0b$126844a0$6e33a8c0@martinlaptop>

Throw away the visual tools and do a crash-course in basic html.

The old table with 100% height and 100% width to align an image at the
bottom-right of the screen, kinda tricks.

You're going to have to take their print problem solving skills and
aggressively train them to apply them in a slightly different way to the
problem of web production.

Find tricks that they use in a print environment, etc. see how you could
do them in pure html.

Why hand code? To take them away from DTP, to remind them that you can't
dtp your way out of a web project.

-m

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Belk
Sent: December 4, 2001 4:22 PM
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.


I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group of print
designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design for the web'.
It's not so much their graphic skills that I'm concerned about, but the
little design tricks that only a seasoned designer knows, that makes the
job run smoother.

They know little to nothing about content architecture or how things
'work' on the web.

Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I have 3
2-hour training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people).





From stout at stoutstreet.com  Tue Dec  4 15:31:14 2001
From: stout at stoutstreet.com (stout at stoutstreet.com)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:31:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
Message-ID: <20011204213240.65821.qmail@cuzea.pair.com>

check out 'Taking Your Talent to the Web' by Zeldman
http://www.zeldman.com/talent/

>I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group of print
>designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design for the web'. It's
>not so much their graphic skills that I'm concerned about, but the little
>design tricks that only a seasoned designer knows, that makes the job run
>smoother.
>They know little to nothing about content architecture or how things 'work'
>on the web.
>Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I have 3 2-hour
>training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people).
>Thanks in advance!
>Sincerely,
>Andrea A Belk
>Creative Director
>Geonetric Technologies
>200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401
>[P] 319.221.1667
>[F] 319.221.1450
>[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
>www.geonetric.com
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

-----------------------------------------
could use a job....... 
http://www.iampms.com/



From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Dec  4 15:36:06 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:36:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
References: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPBGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c17d0b$a0732ee0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>


get this book===========

Taking Your Talent to the Web
http://www.zeldman.com/talent/






From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Tue Dec  4 15:38:14 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:38:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
Message-ID: <v02140b0ab832f27ecbb7@[10.112.1.122]>

At 1:22 PM 12/4/1, Andrea Belk wrote:
> I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group
> of print designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design
> for the web'.

One tack that may help is to have them imagine they're designing for a
thousand different service bureaus... instead of sending a file to a single
printer and seeing if it looks right, their documents are now being
rendered in many browser brands and versions, with very different settings,
on a wide variety of different types of computers with different monitors
and font sets.

They can't control how it looks like they can with a paper product... we
can *suggest* how it looks, and test during development on a wide range of
environments to see how our rendering suggestions do, but each visitor
really controls their own rendering environment.

Testing in a range of environments during production seems a strong way to
bring this reality home...?

jd





John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  4 15:44:09 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:44:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPBGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <200112042144.fB4Li8Zf032553@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Andrea Belk" <andrea at geonetric.com>
>
> I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group of
> print designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design for the
> web'. It's not so much their graphic skills that I'm concerned about,
> but the little design tricks that only a seasoned designer knows, that
> makes the job run smoother.
[...]

you read Zeldman's book?

"Taking Your Talent to the Web: Making the Transition from 
Graphic Design to Web Design"
by Jeffrey Zeldman
New Riders Publishing; ISBN: 0735710732

it's good enough that i've recommended it to my agency clients... 
it's not for creating a web developer, though, you need to do that 
with real training, but the book lends credibility to a lot of what 
you'll be saying...

> Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I have 3
> 2-hour training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people).

day 1 : the web is not print, you have no control.
day 2 : the web is not print, forget how people read paper.
day 3 : the web is not print, dump your software.

make up the rest...




From matt at sweetillusions.org  Tue Dec  4 15:45:19 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:45:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
References: <v02140b0ab832f27ecbb7@[10.112.1.122]>
Message-ID: <01e501c17d0d$2adfee50$6900000a@tendocom.org>

: At 1:22 PM 12/4/1, Andrea Belk wrote:
: > I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group
: > of print designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design
: > for the web'.


curious what you all might have as book suggestions for people that started
out in the digital (only) world and would like to transition to the print
world?

this has been a subject i've been curious about for a time now and find it
interesting how little attention has been payed to it.


thoughts?


tia,
m





From andrea at geonetric.com  Tue Dec  4 15:46:12 2001
From: andrea at geonetric.com (Andrea Belk)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:46:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Stretching to 100% in NN 4.7.
Message-ID: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBEEPDGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>

I have a layout that needs to stretch vertically to fit-screen in NN4.7. I
currently have a background image set in my style sheet to repeat vertically
only, but no go.

Any thoughts?

TIA:)
Sincerely,

Andrea A Belk
Creative Director
Geonetric Technologies
200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401

[P] 319.221.1667
[F] 319.221.1450
[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
www.geonetric.com




From jon at jonandmimi.com  Tue Dec  4 15:52:52 2001
From: jon at jonandmimi.com (j o n)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:52:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
References: <v02140b0ab832f27ecbb7@[10.112.1.122]> <01e501c17d0d$2adfee50$6900000a@tendocom.org>
Message-ID: <3C0D44D0.80401@jonandmimi.com>

matt newell wrote:

>curious what you all might have as book suggestions for people that started
>out in the digital (only) world and would like to transition to the print
>world?
>
Awesome book - Taking Your Talent to the Web
http://www.zeldman.com/talent/


-- 
home - http://jonandmimi.com
max  - http://maxwellholden.com






From Green  Tue Dec  4 15:53:42 2001
From: Green (Green)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:53:42 2001
Subject: [fwd] RE: [thelist] Help with Contracts Continued
Message-ID: <003f203552104c1BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Jeff,

>>>who generally maintains the "rights" to the work.<<<

According to the Graphic Artist Guild Handbook, the *designer* owns the
rights to everything he/she designs (even logos) except for those usage
rights that he/she assigns to the client. In the case of a logo and other
identity materials, it's easier and more "user-friendly" for you to assign
all rights rather than nickel and dime your client for use of their own
identity... but, as was stated before, charge accordingly. My strategy was
to specify (for simplicity's sake) that the client owned all rights to
everything, except that I retained the right to reproduce their materials
for my portfolio. The client (or someone else - not you) owns any and all
copy and other graphics that they supply for their project, so you cannot
own those elements even though they were used in your design.


>>>Is it a normal, in a contract to specify what "company" the client uses
if
they want to reproduce any of the product you give them<<<

No, you should not expect to control who your client selects to reproduce
the items you create. You can, however, emphasize that you have some
preferred vendors who give you good service at fair prices, then offer to
coordinate some of those projects for your client (more $ for you), but be
prepared for them to take their projects wherever they wish and eliminate
you as the "middle man" for that part of the project. Of course, when the
vendor asks the client a question they can't answer, they'll refer that
vendor back to you - so be sure to keep track of and bill for any "project
management time" you spend.

I have a sample contract that I'd be happy to share with you! Email me
offlist with a fax number or something, and I'll send it to you.

Janet Green





From andrea at geonetric.com  Tue Dec  4 15:54:02 2001
From: andrea at geonetric.com (Andrea Belk)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
In-Reply-To: <01e501c17d0d$2adfee50$6900000a@tendocom.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPHGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>

The truth is, that I was originally a 'printie' and now I'm a 'webbie', so I
understand the perspective difference.

The problem is that i'ts easier to remove restrictions (design-wise) than it
is to add them.

I think that taking a webbie to a printie would be actually easier. Remove
all of the current headaches you have with browser compatability and replace
them with color matching and the fact that you can make NO correctionss with
those items that have been sent to press. (spelling errors could cost you
mucho dienero)

I'ts a two sided coin - I personally like the freedom of print with the
flexibility of the web... but who's picky! ;)

Sincerely,

Andrea A Belk
Creative Director
Geonetric Technologies
200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401

[P] 319.221.1667
[F] 319.221.1450
[Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
www.geonetric.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of matt newell
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:47 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)



: At 1:22 PM 12/4/1, Andrea Belk wrote:
: > I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group
: > of print designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design
: > for the web'.


curious what you all might have as book suggestions for people that started
out in the digital (only) world and would like to transition to the print
world?

this has been a subject i've been curious about for a time now and find it
interesting how little attention has been payed to it.


thoughts?


tia,
m



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net  Tue Dec  4 15:54:16 2001
From: malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net (malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A=20=5Bthelist=5D=20Help=20with=20contacts=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <005301c17c35$5ea69190$0acaad8e@susa>
Message-ID: <3C0541CC000019F6@mail.san.yahoo.com>

There is a great book called Collaborative Web Development
by Jessica Burdman that has  good contract templates on CD. 

-- Original Message --

>Hi, I am starting a Web and Design company and am not to sure how I should
>write contacts between me and clients.  I was wondering if someone could
>help me, or had any general contracts I could use as examples. Thank you!
>
>thanks,
>Jeff Klassen
>Web and Multimedia Design
>Phone - (403)253-9663
>Email - mailto:recoil at telusplanet.net
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>







From raj at e-worksmedia.com  Tue Dec  4 15:54:22 2001
From: raj at e-worksmedia.com (Rajinder Joat)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #1828 - 30 msgs
References: <20011130200258.CFFBEC0AC@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <005e01c179e1$07fce020$0601a8c0@singhsong>

> So is it something like
>
> printf ("<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=\"JavaScript1.2\" SRC=\"\/HM_Loader_seconds.js\"
> TYPE=\'text\/javascript\'></SCRIPT>")

bingo.
I didn't escape the single quotes...stupid mistake.

Thanks Jay





From studio at rodegraphics.com  Tue Dec  4 15:54:26 2001
From: studio at rodegraphics.com (Konrad Rode)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE Mac bug? Window resize JS, scroll bars gone
Message-ID: <B832B70D.305F%studio@rodegraphics.com>

Hi there all. 

Allow me to introduce myself: I'm new at Web design, coming from a graphic
design background. I don't know zip about code. I use WYSIWYG editors:
Fireworks 4 & Dreamweaver 4 for Mac. I've been lurking for the past year,
collecting any mails of interest to me.

My problem: Working on my own website ( http://www.rodegraphics.com ), I
inserted JavaScripts to resize the windows of all my main pages to more or
less 800 x 600. Everythings's fine until I test it in Explorer 5 (SR-1) for
Macintosh: When visiting pages where you need to scroll down, such as
http://www.rodegraphics.com/about.htm or
http://www.rodegraphics.com/portfolio/graphicdesign/card_rg.htm , the
vertical scroll bar doesn't show. The only way around it is to manually
resize such windows, after which the scroll bar appears. So, I removed the
scripts, but the problem's still there (and sometimes it's not). I suspect
this has something to do with the JS's, and some bug in IE for Mac
but I'm not sure.

I would really appreciate some suggestions ? I look at my source code and I
feel dyslexic!     = )


Konrad Rode
Member, designer

Rode Graphics CC
[design for Web & print]
http://www.rodegraphics.com
Tel: +27 (0)21 946-2480






From malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net  Tue Dec  4 15:54:35 2001
From: malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net (malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Web=20Certifications=3F=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECMENPDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>
Message-ID: <3C053CF100001F50@mail.san.yahoo.com>

I am thinking of becoming certified as some sort of "web professional".
Can anyone tell me which are the most valuable or highly recommended?
The local university here offers a  "CIW" certificate program 

I was also considering the Macromedia certification.

Thoughts, Suggestions??

Thanks Malcolm







From mike at mikeparsons.net  Tue Dec  4 15:54:37 2001
From: mike at mikeparsons.net (mike at mikeparsons.net)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:54:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Review
Message-ID: <3c0da5bf.d7.0@server-mail.com>

Hi All,

I have just posted a new version of my site.

http://www.mikeparsons.net/

If you have a spare minute, i would like to hear your 
comments/suggestions.

thanks,

mike




From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Tue Dec  4 15:55:04 2001
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt)
Date: Tue Dec  4 15:55:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
References: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPBGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D46A6.EA67BDE9@lightbulbpress.com>

be sure to really explain the differences in the preparation of graphics for
the web vs. print, gifs vs. jpg vs. png, 72 vs. 300, etc. I can't count the
number of times I've been asked for a "high-res" version of an  HTML page and
had to explain, to great annoyance, that only the tiny logo in the corner
existed in 300dpi, and everything else on the page was live text and therefore
72., and they would have to make do with a screenshot :)

Andrea Belk wrote:

> I have a project coming up where I have to train a small group of print
> designers (ad agency level experience) on how to 'design for the web'. It's
> not so much their graphic skills that I'm concerned about, but the little
> design tricks that only a seasoned designer knows, that makes the job run
> smoother.
>
> They know little to nothing about content architecture or how things 'work'
> on the web.
>
> Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I have 3 2-hour
> training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people).
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Andrea A Belk
> Creative Director
> Geonetric Technologies
> 200 First Avenue NE | Suite 220
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa | 52401
>
> [P] 319.221.1667
> [F] 319.221.1450
> [Toll-Free] 800.589.1171
> www.geonetric.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From evolt at spinhead.com  Tue Dec  4 16:02:38 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:02:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
References: <v02140b0ab832f27ecbb7@[10.112.1.122]> <01e501c17d0d$2adfee50$6900000a@tendocom.org> <3C0D44D0.80401@jonandmimi.com>
Message-ID: <00db01c17d0e$e53ba4f0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Exactly the opposite -
Zeldman = print --> digital

Question was
who = digital --> print?

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "j o n" <jon at jonandmimi.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)


> matt newell wrote:
>
> >curious what you all might have as book suggestions for people that
started
> >out in the digital (only) world and would like to transition to the print
> >world?
> >
> Awesome book - Taking Your Talent to the Web
> http://www.zeldman.com/talent/
>
>
> --
> home - http://jonandmimi.com
> max  - http://maxwellholden.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From mg at markgroen.com  Tue Dec  4 16:03:03 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:03:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Review
References: <3c0da5bf.d7.0@server-mail.com>
Message-ID: <008701c17d0f$501c54e0$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike at mikeparsons.net>
Subject: [thelist] Site Review


> Hi All,
>
> I have just posted a new version of my site.
>
> http://www.mikeparsons.net/
>
> If you have a spare minute, i would like to hear your
> comments/suggestions.
>
> thanks,
>
> mike
>

I wanted to read more, but the grey text on white background made it too
difficult to go on after a couple paragraphs. Liked the navigation bar
and the other colors, site is easy to navigate and well laid out.


Mark

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada





From diego at minid.net  Tue Dec  4 16:09:39 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:09:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
References: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPHGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D483F.7000807@minid.net>

Hi andrea,

Maybe this link can help you.

http://webmutant.com/autoprint.shtml

"automatic printer-friendly pages"

cheers.

diego
minid.net

Andrea Belk wrote:

>The truth is, that I was originally a 'printie' and now I'm a 'webbie', so I
>understand the perspective difference.
>
>The problem is that i'ts easier to remove restrictions (design-wise) than it
>is to add them.
>
>
/* timmed */




From djc at members.evolt.org  Tue Dec  4 16:21:45 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:21:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] November stats for evolt.org
Message-ID: <3C0D4C53.7060606@members.evolt.org>

Ciao!

November stats for evolt.org are in:

Hits: 
	1.5Mil
Page Views:	569,000(another record!)
IP's Server:	92,000
Page Views/day:	18,000
Data transfer:	74Gb(record by a longshot)
Data transfer/day: 2.3Gb	

of interest:

top referers for the month: google(125,000), altavista(6700), 
slashdot(12,000, linking to my 'bad robots' article), sv.com(6500, they 
hada  nice blurb about evolt and the browser archive), and 
dynamicdrive.com(4000, linking to browser archive).. the most popular 
search terms for the month were, javascript, netscape, asp, php, and 
browser - in that order.. it was interesting to see 133 people sent to 
evolt while searching for 'igloos' :)

MSIE based browsers finished first with 1,128,066 requests and NS based 
browsers came in with around 211,000 requests - a 5 to 1 ratio and 
slightly higher than average on the Web.. Signs of a comeback? this is 
also the first month there were more requests made from Unix based 
machines than Macintosh ones, with at least one person sticking with 
their Atari based system to browse evolt :)

kroet, deadL0ck, mpember, altyazi, and djc(w00!) were the top 5 
members.evolt.org websites this month while Netscape based browsers were 
downloaded more often than their IE rivals...

http://browsers.evolt.org/stats/stats.nov2001.html

have fun, and as always, feel free to shout if there are questions or 
comments :)

.djc.
- list manager supreme with extra cheese -




From diego at minid.net  Tue Dec  4 16:28:32 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:28:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] November stats for evolt.org
References: <3C0D4C53.7060606@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C0D4CEA.5050308@minid.net>

200.000 hits were made by me :)

/* trim */

I want to see evolt.org ported to xhtml and now the data transfer should 
be more lower than now.

sorry my english.

cheers evolt!

diego,
minid.net




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Dec  4 16:33:36 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Tue Dec  4 16:33:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Review
In-Reply-To: <3c0da5bf.d7.0@server-mail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c17d15$4b3c41f0$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

Hi Mike,

I think the site looks good, I'd like to make a couple of suggestions.

I would suggest you make the gray text a little darker just to make it a
little less strenuous on the eyes.

Some text link navigation at the bottom of the page would be good, right now
all your site navigation is at the top of the page.  In Windows NT ie5.5 at
800 x 600 I'm having to scroll up again to navigate.

Your site pages looks good but seem to get a little busy at the bottom where
Innovation Links are on the home page.  Can you utilize the right side white
space for these links?, it will also shorten your page a little.  The same
with Broadband, Streaming media and Virtual Communities.

Overall I like the site and the info.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of mike at mikeparsons.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:43 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Site Review


Hi All,

I have just posted a new version of my site.

http://www.mikeparsons.net/

If you have a spare minute, i would like to hear your
comments/suggestions.

thanks,

mike


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From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Tue Dec  4 17:15:10 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:15:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
In-Reply-To: <000401c17d15$4b3c41f0$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKELGCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

I'm currently working on my company's new website which includes a section
where users can register/login/change account info/etc.  I plan on doing all
user account interaction (i.e. account changes, registrations, purchases,
etc.) on an SSL layer on our server.  My question is this: since this is
128-bit encrypted, can I carelessly throw information like usernames and
passwords across the net and into session vars (cookies) without worrying
about security issues?  The only way this could go wrong I suppose is if
someone 1) hacks into our db server (SQL Server 7.0), or 2) obtains the
session cookie from the user's machine while their session is active.

What do you think?  I'm using ASP if you're curious.  TIA.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Tue Dec  4 17:21:00 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (/cdj)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:21:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
Message-ID: <000501c17d1a$bd21dfa0$be82fea9@cr283847a>

Hello,

Could someone please point me in the direction of a tutorial to learn
how to use ssh or openssh on linux (Red Hat 7.2)? In particular, is
there a nice graphical version available for Linux? I am needing it to
access a remote computer, I have been told that it is far superior to
telnet and would therefore like to get it set up and running on my
machine.

Thanks,
/chris




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Tue Dec  4 17:24:51 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:24:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <000501c17d1a$bd21dfa0$be82fea9@cr283847a>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Chris,

I've never used SSH for more than an encrypted-telnet session.  What have
you been told are the other uses for it?  If you're looking for something
like VNC (remote administration with GUI, etc.) then check out
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ for more info.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of /cdj
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 6:24 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Could someone please point me in the direction of a tutorial to learn
> how to use ssh or openssh on linux (Red Hat 7.2)? In particular, is
> there a nice graphical version available for Linux? I am needing it to
> access a remote computer, I have been told that it is far superior to
> telnet and would therefore like to get it set up and running on my
> machine.
>
> Thanks,
> /chris
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Dec  4 17:25:02 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:25:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E6816@apollo.ti3.com>

> 128-bit encrypted, can I carelessly throw information like 
> usernames and
> passwords across the net and into session vars (cookies) 

Session variables are not sent across the net in the first place (What
is sent is a SessionID cookie, and that is a lookup key for the
information in server memory). The cookie would be encrypted, so I'd say
you would get away with it.

Oh, but you might wanna encrypt at least the pwds in the db...

sgd



From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Dec  4 17:26:04 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:26:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E6817@apollo.ti3.com>

Please note I am speaking for ASP/IIS here. Thanks
 
> Session variables are not sent across the net in the first place (What



From john at neoncowboy.com  Tue Dec  4 17:26:07 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:26:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
In-Reply-To: <MKELKPFONLHGDDNCHEOCKEDACJAA.allie@pajunas.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAGEKGEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

Can anyone help me learn how to use .htaccess to do the following:

When a user requests http://www.domain.com/dir, they get: index.shtml from
that directory.

AND..

When a user requests  http://www.domain.com/dir/index.html , they also get:
index.shtml from that directory.

Thanks,
John




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Tue Dec  4 17:27:36 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:27:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
In-Reply-To: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E6816@apollo.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJOELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Hmph, I did not know that.  Interesting!

Yeah db entries will definitely be protected. ;)  Thanks for the info.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 6:26 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
> 
> 
> > 128-bit encrypted, can I carelessly throw information like 
> > usernames and
> > passwords across the net and into session vars (cookies) 
> 
> Session variables are not sent across the net in the first place (What
> is sent is a SessionID cookie, and that is a lookup key for the
> information in server memory). The cookie would be encrypted, so I'd say
> you would get away with it.
> 
> Oh, but you might wanna encrypt at least the pwds in the db...
> 
> sgd
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Tue Dec  4 17:28:36 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:28:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Security when managing online sessions
In-Reply-To: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKELGCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKELGCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <p05100307b8330a30d027@[192.168.1.2]>

>The only way this could go wrong I suppose is if
>someone 1) hacks into our db server (SQL Server 7.0), or 2) obtains the
>session cookie from the user's machine while their session is active.
>
>What do you think?  I'm using ASP if you're curious.  TIA.

In the last netcraft newsletter there was mention of a JSP session id 
vulnerability. It seems that the session ID for quite a few JSP 
servers was not quite unique enough, and so easily spoofed. I don't 
know to what degree, or whether, this applies to ASP or not, but you 
may want to double check how random the session ID really is.

Oh, and setting usernames in a cookie would be bad. :)

Here's the netcraft advisory:

http://www.netcraft.com/security/public-advisories/2001-01.1.html

Cheers
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Tue Dec  4 17:29:22 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (/cdj)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:29:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <000601c17d1b$e885b3f0$be82fea9@cr283847a>

On windows, I have a ssh program that allows for what in effect is an
encrypted telnet session, however, it also comes with a secure ftp
program and a really nice graphical interface for creating profiles and
accounts. This is what I am looking for on Linux. Something that is easy
to use and allows for point and click ftp. Am I expecting to much for
Linux?

/chris

-----Original Message-----
Chris,

I've never used SSH for more than an encrypted-telnet session.  What
have you been told are the other uses for it?  If you're looking for
something like VNC (remote administration with GUI, etc.) then check out
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ for more info.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net




From john at neoncowboy.com  Tue Dec  4 17:35:11 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:35:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAGEKGEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAAEKIEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

Doh! I forgot to change the subject :)

<tip type="dealing with poor support for standards in old browsers">
I didn't get much sleep last night and am NOT in the mood for NN 4.5!!

If you use CSS to format and style your pages, that's a good step. But
here's a scenario that might bite you on the ass:

If you only use CSS to format your type, you might be getting into trouble.
If your pages have a dark background via <body> attributes like
bgcolor="#000000" or background="black_picture.gif" and you are counting on
your nice CSS to lighten your type, as in:
body, p, h1, h2, h3{
	color: #ffffff
}

Guess what! NN 4.5 for windows won't apply your type style to some type,
like <ul>, <ol>, <li>, <form> elements. It'll just arbitrarily render them
in black, times new roman (or whatever your user's default type is). Stupid
ass browser!

So my suggestion for defeating this lame behavior is to use CSS to do ALL of
the formatting, and employ some kind of browser sniffer (prefferably server
side, email me for PHP or SSI code) to serve the right stylesheet.

I swear, I am on the verge of yanking support for this browser. It's just
too big a pain in the ass!
</tip>

|-----Original Message-----
|From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
|[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of John Corry
|Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:33 PM
|To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
|Subject: RE: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?
|
|
|Can anyone help me learn how to use .htaccess to do the following:
|
|When a user requests http://www.domain.com/dir, they get: index.shtml from
|that directory.
|
|AND..
|
|When a user requests  http://www.domain.com/dir/index.html , they also get:
|index.shtml from that directory.
|
|Thanks,
|John
|
|
|---------------------------------------
|For unsubscribe and other options, including
|the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
|http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|




From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Tue Dec  4 17:37:48 2001
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Alliax)
Date: Tue Dec  4 17:37:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] What to watch for when you allow external text to be included in your page?
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAEEEHEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com> <006201c178b0$66f209c0$0100a8c0@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <000f01c17d1c$a40c2460$0100a8c0@wanadoo.fr>

Hello,
Finally I thought that the most feared characters were
< and > as well as "
so for example some malicious text could be
"><script>document.reload()</script>

SO this function would solve this problem:
$mytext = htmlspecialchars($mytext)

But once again, I don't know what an experienced hacker could come up with,
maybe they can do something without having to use < or >

I don't know, I'll tell you if I have a bad experience to learn from.

----- Original Message -----
From: Alliax <damiencola at wanadoo.fr>


> Hi John, thank you for your PHP functions, I'll use them.
> Althought breaking the HTML code can be annoying, when I said 'what do I have
to
> watch for?' I was thinking of malicious actions, like using server side
include
> to run program on the server and possibly erase the file of my web server.

> > Be careful what you put in the field that you draw alt="" text from. If that
> > field has a ">" in it, the <img) tag you are writing the alt="" text into
> > will be ended by that ">". I dunno what'd happen if you did
> > htmlspecialchars() on it...if the character entities would print or
> > translate when included as alt="" text...In IE 6, alt="&gt;" renders an
> > images alt="" text as a ">", ymmv.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Dec  4 18:21:24 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Dec  4 18:21:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] November stats for evolt.org
Message-ID: <01c17d22$f0343d40$464d149a@rudy>

> ... it was interesting to see 133 people sent to evolt
> while searching for 'igloos' :)

that would be

   Keeping the Igloos Off the Beaches
   http://evolt.org/article/Igloos/4090/5308/index.html

a popular IA/Usability article

google probably raised its relevance because of IA sites linking to it

of course, we probably got a few clickthroughs simply because the rather
fanciful title piqued a few people's curiosity

rudy




From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Dec  4 18:40:51 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Tue Dec  4 18:40:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <000601c17d1b$e885b3f0$be82fea9@cr283847a>
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <3C0D0345.4353.1A5B9D5@localhost>

> On windows, I have a ssh program that allows for what in effect is an
> encrypted telnet session, however, it also comes with a secure ftp
> program and a really nice graphical interface for creating profiles
> and accounts. 

Mind sharing that program with us Chris? I use the GUI SSH FTP windows 
client from http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ but I'd love to have a GUI SSH telnet 
client for windows, the one I'm using is command line barbaric.

According to this tutorial you may already have what you want if you're 
running Xwindows at client and RedHat7.1+ on the server

http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.1-Manual/custom-
guide/openssh.html
<quote>
forwards the DISPLAY variable to the client machine. In other words, if you are 
running the X Window System on your local machine, and you log in to a remote 
machine using the ssh command, when you execute a program on the remote 
machine that requires X, it will be displayed on your local machine. This is convenient 
if you prefer graphical system administration tools but do not always have physical 
access to your server. 
</quote>

>  I have been told that it is far superior to telnet

That's an understatement! Using telnet is like leaving your keys in your car, 
it's an open invitation to a hacker to even have it turned on, SSH is not just 
superior, it's essential equipment these days.

keith



From gte255n at prism.gatech.edu  Tue Dec  4 18:42:47 2001
From: gte255n at prism.gatech.edu (Michael Imamura)
Date: Tue Dec  4 18:42:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <000501c17d1a$bd21dfa0$be82fea9@cr283847a>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0112050033150.7673-100000@acmey.gatech.edu>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, /cdj wrote:
> Could someone please point me in the direction of a tutorial to learn
> how to use ssh or openssh on linux (Red Hat 7.2)? In particular, is
> there a nice graphical version available for Linux?

Here's an article on SSH written by one of our members (The Linux Users
Group at Georgia Tech):
  http://www.lugatgt.org/articles/using_ssh/
You might want to skip down to the "Using Secure Shell" section.

As for a graphical version, I don't know of any, sorry.  Most people I
know just open up another terminal window and just SSH from the
command-line (there's really not much to it).

I haven't tried any graphical scp/sftp clients, but a quick search on
freshmeat.net popped up a couple interesting projects:
  http://freshmeat.net/projects/secpanel/
  http://freshmeat.net/projects/kscp/

              - Michael Imamura   mimamura at resnet.gatech.edu
                LUG at GT Web Guy    http://www.lugatgt.org/




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Tue Dec  4 18:51:56 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Tue Dec  4 18:51:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Reserting fields in submited Form doesn't work in opera :((( ?
References: <01c17d22$f0343d40$464d149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <000601c17d1e$875b8f20$0100007f@mar>

I was writing some pages with form submission and checking the fields. The
target of this form is another window but I don't want the info to be left
in input fields after the submiting is OK (in some pages I do deal with
usernams of those, who connect to my CGI HTTP-SMTP/POP3 server ). So I
decided to do the following : when the new window is closed, the focus in an
old one is left on Submit button. So I check if the form was submited (by
the global variable) and if so, Reset the form. All is OK in IE (I tested
only in IE5 yet), NN 3.1; NN4; NN6, Mozilla But nothing is "reseted" in
Opera5,2
Does somebody know why it is so?

Should be thankful for any suggestion,

Here is the piece of code that submit and reset :)) my form:

<script language="JavaScript">

var submiting = 0;  /* Glabal Variable - Flag to know if the form was
submited */

function popup() {
window.open("", "popup", "resizable=no, menubar=no, status=no, toolbar=no,
location=no, width=200, height=200, innerHeight=200, innerWidth=200");
return true;

}

function
ckForm(f){ 
 submiting = 0;
............................ code to check for all the necessory fields to be filled in proparlly .........................................

   if (err==0) { /*If ewerything is OK then we call the function that open popup window in which CGI answer would be delivered*/
     popup(); 
     submiting=1; /*Flag on*/
     return true; /*return true for to submit the form */
   }

 ....................Then  comes code to show error messages and focus in the Form's field  that should be corrected ..........................................
   return false;
}
</script>


then comes the Form itself
<form name="somename" method="post" action="myCGI.cgi" target="popup" onSubmit="return CheckForm(this);">
the fields
the fields
the fields
 <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit" onFocus="if(submiting==1){ emalform.reset();}">
 <input type="reset" name="Reset" value="Reset">
</form>

Best regards,
Maryanna Nesina
mar at ma
il.bio.pu.ru
http://www.bio.pu.ru/~mar




From judah at wiredotter.com  Tue Dec  4 18:54:03 2001
From: judah at wiredotter.com (judah at wiredotter.com)
Date: Tue Dec  4 18:54:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <3C0D0345.4353.1A5B9D5@localhost>
References: <000601c17d1b$e885b3f0$be82fea9@cr283847a>
 <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204165354.0273c788@mail.site-o-matic.com>

At 05:09 PM 12/4/2001 -0700, Keith wrote:

>Mind sharing that program with us Chris? I use the GUI SSH FTP windows
>client from http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ but I'd love to have a GUI SSH telnet
>client for windows, the one I'm using is command line barbaric.

Check out TeraTerm Pro with the TTSSH extension.

TeraTerm: http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html

TTSSH: http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html

It supports SSH v 1 and 1.5  It does not support SSH 2.0

However, TeraTerm behaves like a good Windows client.  The window is 
resizable, you can set your own fonts and colors, etc.  I've used this 
setup for a few years now and I've had no complaints.

It also has nice support for Japanese character sets and its free.  Great 
bonuses, IMHO.

Judah




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Dec  4 19:08:22 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue Dec  4 19:08:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJCELHCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu> <3C0D0345.4353.1A5B9D5@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C0D73D8.E5999EDF@webtuitive.com>

Keith wrote:

> According to this tutorial you may already have what you want if you're
> running Xwindows at client
/
> <quote>
> forwards the DISPLAY variable to the client machine. In other words, if you are
> running the X Window System on your local machine,

I haven't taken the time to look into this closely, but the above 
does *not* seem to be true of the cygwin version of ssh running on 
Windows, even when the local DISPLAY variable has been explicitly
set ... 

Would love to hear if either I'm missing something or there's a fix
for this available! 

(Fix != switch to Linux desktop -- I know about that one, it's just
 not an immediate option.)

-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Tue Dec  4 19:10:14 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (/cdj)
Date: Tue Dec  4 19:10:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <3C0D0345.4353.1A5B9D5@localhost>
Message-ID: <000701c17d29$ffed7dd0$be82fea9@cr283847a>

The program that I use on windows is from www.ssh.com You can download a
none commercial version if you are a student or you can buy a version
for commercial purposes. I am in the midst of checking to see if they
have a Linux version.

/chris

-----Original Message-----

Mind sharing that program with us Chris? I use the GUI SSH FTP windows 
client from http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ but I'd love to have a GUI SSH
telnet 
client for windows, the one I'm using is command line barbaric.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  4 19:18:21 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec  4 19:18:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Certifications??
In-Reply-To: <3C053CF100001F50@mail.san.yahoo.com>
References: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECMENPDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D2FA1.10680.4204BA25@localhost>

> From: malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net
>
> I am thinking of becoming certified as some sort of "web
> professional". Can anyone tell me which are the most valuable or
> highly recommended? The local university here offers a  "CIW"
> certificate program 
[...]

i've never hired somebody with a certification in web stuff (not that i 
was trying not to or otherwise, it's just an observation)...

in fact, if i see a certification on a resume, i tend to ignore it (not 
actively, it just doesn't matter to me because ---)...

i use quizzes and interrogation to determine peoples' skill levels... 
ultimately, most certifications are given by people or organizations 
who, i've found, tend to be underqualified on their own, let alone to 
be certifying anything...

but that's just me...




From squid_66 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 19:43:22 2001
From: squid_66 at yahoo.com (J J)
Date: Tue Dec  4 19:43:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <200112042034.fB4KYRZf027090@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011205014449.67319.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com>

The cheapest though not the simplest solution would be
record to a tape recorder, go home and plug from the
tape player's audio out to the sound card audio in and
record the audio into any audio software.  Chop, edit,
cleanup, then output to the format of your choice.

Otherwise, a laptop and a decent mic and you have your
own mobile recording studio direct to the hard drive.

If you need to get fancy with the audio production or
add in music or effects, let me know.  You could
always send me the tape and I'll do it for you,
usually at no charge.


--- aardvark <roselli at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > From: Elizabeth Hincks <liz.hincks at tufts.edu>
> > 
> > Anybody know of a good solution to capture audio
> for the web?  I want
> > something simple that I can hook up and tape a
> lecture  in a
> > classroom...Then I'll download it into my PC and
> compress it with
> > SoundForge.    My co-worker is talking about
> mixers and microphones
> > and tigers...oh my!!
> > 
> > Anyone have a real simple set up that works
> relatively good?
> [...]
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From seyon at delime.com  Tue Dec  4 20:04:50 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:04:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Certifications??
In-Reply-To: <3C053CF100001F50@mail.san.yahoo.com>
References: <JNEDJNFHLHNECHJBCFECMENPDCAA.emailus@carbonchip.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011204220311.016eca90@mail.delime.com>

At 12/3/2001 07:34 PM, you wrote:
>I am thinking of becoming certified as some sort of "web professional".

Why?

>I was also considering the Macromedia certification.

Why?

<tip type="certification">
Warning: Tip may be recycled. Check out Brainbench - www.brainbench.com for 
low cost, increasingly well-regarded certification, tests available online.
</tip>




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Tue Dec  4 20:11:34 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:11:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] strange head tag
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204204930.01d16298@mail.idirect.ca>

I've come across a tag I've never heard tell of before and I can't figure 
it out.  It is included in the head tag, specifically

<head implied_="true">

What does this tag actually do in a page?

Peter Kaulback




From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Dec  4 20:18:33 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:18:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Ssh on Linux
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204165354.0273c788@mail.site-o-matic.com>
References: <3C0D0345.4353.1A5B9D5@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C0D1A33.17140.1FF4EF6@localhost>

Chris
>Something that is easy to use and allows for point and click ftp. 

If it's just SCP you're looking fo maybe mindterm's java would be the way 
to go. It's an FTP client that can be run as an application or as an applet. 
I've used the older version as an applet and liked it. A reworked and free 
version is available at http://www.isnetworks.com/ssh/

Hmmm.... last I saw of TeraTerm it was experimental but that was long 
time ago.......

Let's see, a free TeraTerm or a not-free www.ssh.com, decisions, 
decisions..... But hey, Japanese characters! Who can pass that up! Time 
to checkout TeraTerm again. Thanks Judah! 

keith





From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Dec  4 20:20:26 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:20:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] audio hardware question
In-Reply-To: <20011205014449.67319.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIAENKCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> Otherwise, a laptop and a decent mic and you have your
> own mobile recording studio direct to the hard drive.

This is almost what our reporters here use, basically - they all travel with
a hand-held minidisc recorder. After recording in the field, they connect to
their laptops, do the editing, and encode in MP3. The laptop itself is a
little unwieldy when you need to move around quickly and easily. They've
recorded in very strange places this way and gotten great results. One
important point, though is that mic you mentioned...they always have a good
mic connected to the minidisc recorder.

BH




From don at aspalliance.com  Tue Dec  4 20:22:35 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:22:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)
References: <20011204040458.97603.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c17d32$f372fa40$f7772241@dmak>

Martin wrote:
> In ASP, would there be any wisdom in doing the browserdetect in the
global.asa file and storing
> the result in a session variable to reduce processor cycles for each page
view? Any thoughts?

Depending on the traffic, it may or may not be a good idea. Chances are the
processor would have to work harder to store each session variable (sessions
are EXPENSIVE - much more expensive than serving a few extra "k" per page)

Given that a session default timeout in an ASP Application is 20 minutes,
consider the following scenario:

===============
**At this moment
50 users come to site
--------------------
so you have 50 users on your site
and you have 50 sessions (this seems fine right?)

(but. . . . .)
===============
**5 minutes later
40 users leave
50 users arrive
-------------------
# of users: 60
# of sessions: 100 (the other sessions are remaining until they time out)

(it gets worse. . . .)
===============
**10 minutes later
50 users arrive
100 users leave
-------------------
# of users: 10
# of sessions: 150

(and the carnage continues. . . .)
===============
15 minutes later
50 more users come to the site
50 users leave
-----------------------------
# of users: 10
# of sessions: 200

(your server is now officially begging you for mercy)
===============
19 minutes 45 seconds later
50 more users come to the site
50 users leave
-----------------------------
GRAND TOTAL AT 20 MINUTES
# of users: 10
# of sessions: 250
YIKES! Look at all that wasted server memory holding state for people who
aren't even there!
-----------------------------

This is a possible (and very likely) scenario for a small to medium
trafficked website (this is about the average amount of traffic I get on
www.Makovision.com/). If you scale up to the thousands or tens of thousands
you can see how this could become a nightmare REAL fast. Generally sessions
are a bad thing.
------
See the following articles for a closer look:
"Session Overview & Myths"
http://www.learnasp.com/learn/sessionoverview.asp
"Databases and Sessions.... Just Say No!"
http://www.learnasp.com/learn/nodbsession.asp
------

Thankfully ASP.NET (which is due out anytime) takes care of ALOT of the
problems with sessions. (http://www.asp.net/) Once people begin migrating to
ASP.NET you will see less and less session issues.

Hope that helps!

Don Makoviney
MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
http://www.makovision.com/
Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
http://www.makovision.com/subs/







----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Goodyear" <rob_goodyear at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?


> Don't know if this is veering off-topic or swerving back on-topic ;-)
but...
>
> In ASP, would there be any wisdom in doing the browserdetect in the
global.asa file and storing
> the result in a session variable to reduce processor cycles for each page
view? Any thoughts?
>
> /rg
>
> --- martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> > >Yes, ALA has it's own version of this sort of, the style
> > >switcher by Paul Sowden, but that just selects between
> > >stylesheets already made, to give total control to the
> > >user, you need server side scripting. Or user style sheets,
> > >but seriously... how many users are going to know how to
> > >use them?
> >
> > Depends on your audience I think - the more aware of the technicalities
> > the users are, the more you can give them access to (and with less
> > explanation).
> >
> > So for a general audience, you might give them an "Enlarge/Reduce
> > text" option. For a web-dev audience such as ALA's or evolt's, you'd
> > give them a much wider range of elements to play with. And what you
> > might do is have a nice preview which lets you experiment a bit before
you
> > saved a preference.
> >
> > Of course, you'd need to explain what all the non-standard elements
do...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Martin
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Dec  4 20:35:05 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:35:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] November stats for evolt.org
In-Reply-To: <01c17d22$f0343d40$464d149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3C0D1E10.11954.20E65C0@localhost>

> > ... it was interesting to see 133 people sent to evolt
> > while searching for 'igloos' :)
> 
> that would be
> 
>    Keeping the Igloos Off the Beaches
>    http://evolt.org/article/Igloos/4090/5308/index.html
> 
> a popular IA/Usability article
> 
> google probably raised its relevance because of IA sites linking to it
> 
> of course, we probably got a few clickthroughs simply because the
> rather fanciful title piqued a few people's curiosity

rudy, you wouldn't be suggesting that "Sexy Styled Sheets" would 
be a good article name for Lon's upcoming article on Variable 
Stylesheets, would you???

keith



From damian_mac at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  4 20:35:43 2001
From: damian_mac at hotmail.com (Damian Maclennan)
Date: Tue Dec  4 20:35:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)
Message-ID: <F243z93MgPPf3L9BGTu00001eb6@hotmail.com>

>
>Thankfully ASP.NET (which is due out anytime) takes care of ALOT of the
>problems with sessions. (http://www.asp.net/) Once people begin migrating 
>to
>ASP.NET you will see less and less session issues.
>

Not to nitpick here....but...

I had a look into ASP.Net session handling, basically you have 3 choices.

1. Standard asp sessions, this looks exactly the same as what is already in 
ASP. In memory, on the one web server, not clusterable etc.

This would have all the same problems.

2. SQL Server. Stores session info in a DB, that is fine, but most people 
getting around the session problem on a big scale would have done this by 
now, which means production code that is tested and working.

3. A State Server. This is kinda cool, a dedicated server for storing 
session info. BUT...you can not cluster this machine, so if it falls 
over....goodbye session.

So, basically .net session handling isn't the be all and end all. I am sure 
you have looked into it too. It is just that I have seen a lot of blanket 
statements like ".net solves all these problems so you won't have to worry 
anymore". The only real way it solves it is by using a technique that has 
been used for a long time.

Actually, this is something that is a little annoying about .net. A lot of 
the new features is all stuff that we have worked around anyway and have 
lots of production code doing it. I have stuff like DB based sessions and 
caching engines running in production and am quite happy with the way they 
work. There is a lot of marketing hype going on.

Just wanted to clear that up :)

Cheers

Damian

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Dec  4 21:00:07 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Dec  4 21:00:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Reminder about wu-ftpd
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204185823.02fc8108@baratta.com>

FYI...(*nix admins and associated os jockeys)

If you haven't heard or forgot - there is security hole in wu-fptd. Most 
vendors have a patch now available. The fully patched source has been 
available since last Friday.

Get your boxes plugged!! A exploit may already be in the wild. If not now, 
I betcha very soon.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From lists at 4serendipity.com  Tue Dec  4 21:37:18 2001
From: lists at 4serendipity.com (Andrew Stevens)
Date: Tue Dec  4 21:37:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
In-Reply-To: <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu>
References: <20011115182840.80518.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>
 <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu>
Message-ID: <546767085.20011204223730@4serendipity.com>

Hello Joel,

Thursday, November 15, 2001, 1:33:07 PM, you wrote:

JKP> I'm impressed with the amount and relevence of the articles featured on sites 
JKP> such as webdevelopersjournal.com, webtechniques.com, and webreview.com. Does 
JKP> anyone else out there know of a favorite web development e-zine-type site?

JKP> -joeljkp


JKP> -------------------------------------------------------
JKP> http://www.ballsome.com

JKP> ---------------------------------------
JKP> For unsubscribe and other options, including

Another good site with a broad range of articles is
http://sitepoint.com

Additionally, the site also hosts an active set of web development
forms at:
http://www.sitepointforums.com/


<tip type="W3C Mailing lists">
The W3C hosts a number of active lists covering such topics as
accessibility, style sheets, xml and other web and consortium-related
topics.
List archives are available at: http://www.w3.org/Mail/Lists.html
</tip>


Andrew

http://4serendipity.com




From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Dec  4 22:14:08 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Tue Dec  4 22:14:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAGEKGEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
References: <MKELKPFONLHGDDNCHEOCKEDACJAA.allie@pajunas.com>
Message-ID: <3C0D3543.32225.46B306@localhost>

> Can anyone help me learn how to use .htaccess to do the following:

>  When a user requests http://www.domain.com/dir, they get: index.shtml
> from that directory.
> AND..
> When a user requests  http://www.domain.com/dir/index.html , they also
> get: index.shtml from that directory.

Easy to do John

In the format "Redirect old_URI new_URL" put the following in your 
.htaccess

Redirect /dir/index.html http://www.domain.com/dir/index.shtml

This works on Apache only if httpd.conf has AllowOverride set to All 
or includes FileInfo as an option that htaccess can override. It's 
important to note, the URI must not be the server's absolute path or 
a relative path, it needs to be the path from the domain's document 
root and must begin with a /

Did you do the same thing I did, change to using shtml on a site 
after people had bookmarked index.html? 

keith



From mg at markgroen.com  Tue Dec  4 22:24:03 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Tue Dec  4 22:24:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Certifications??
References: <3C053CF100001F50@mail.san.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c17d44$8b9f3700$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: <malcolm at manlikemalcolm.net>
Subject: [thelist] Web Certifications??


> I am thinking of becoming certified as some sort of "web
professional".
> Can anyone tell me which are the most valuable or highly recommended?
> The local university here offers a  "CIW" certificate program
>
> I was also considering the Macromedia certification.
>
> Thoughts, Suggestions??
>
> Thanks Malcolm
>


    Certifications are nice to hang on a wall and say you have them, but
some of the most often asked questions you get will be "What web sites
have you done so far?" and "got the URL for that?" and "how did they do
that, and can we do it for our site without spending any money?" You
probably won't get many people asking you to bring your certifications
to the initial client meeting or job interview.
   To certified as some sort of "web professional" you need to just *be*
one. That means creating web sites that meet W3C specs, and telling
everyone you know that is what you do. It also means continually
upgrading your skills while listening and learning everything you can
about the internet. Guaranteed there will be some questions from clients
that you have no idea what the answer is, but the more you know the
easier it is to say, "I'm not sure about that, but let me get back to
you with a correct/useful answer shortly" and look like you mean it.
Then do it.
    The latest offering from Macromedia to "Certify" that you know how
to use their software does nothing for me what so ever even though I do
use Macromedia products myself when they are helpful or needed. I would
rather see an A+ grade from your local community college or Brain Bench
showing that you have been educated in HTML, JavaScript, and CSS. The
other languages are certainly all used in web development, but if you
don't have those first three firmly understood you are limiting yourself
greatly. Frankly, if I was hiring and a potential candidate showed me
their Macromedia certs as proof of competence, I would show them the
door.
    To sum up: build lots of sites and have lots of people look at them
and listen to their comments and act upon said comments. You don't have
to build huge e-commerce sites either to get your portfolio together.
The
sites should reflect and showcase your skills, whether it be ASP, CGI,
Perl, php, Cold Fusion or just plain old HTML and CSS. Also, do some
charity work; a gratis site here and there for a good cause shows your
commitment to building web pages and your concern for the community as a
whole.

HTH!
Mark

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada






From krr at ix.netcom.com  Tue Dec  4 22:37:44 2001
From: krr at ix.netcom.com (Kevin Raleigh)
Date: Tue Dec  4 22:37:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] cleaning Db for output
References: <20011130144919.E74B7C05A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <006301c17d46$9113c820$59d6fea9@krr>

> When pulling data from a database with ASP, make sure you trim()
> all your data as it comes out of the database.
>
> e.g.
>
> varFieldOne = Trim(objRS("FieldOne"))
>
> You save yourself from debugging hell when the data does not come
> out "clean" from the DB.

okay, i appreciate that this is a "defensive programming" strategy, and in
that sense it's good advice, but sheesh, the time to do the trimming, in
fact the time to do *all* edits to ensure clean data, is on **input**

if you do it on output you'll have redundant code all over the friggin
place


Following this thread I was wondering if I could put some type of script
together to clean any possible mistakes up so that I would be able to
aviod having to code in this fashion?

> varFieldOne = Trim(objRS("FieldOne"))

I am just learning here so if my question runs into some more than I
realize...

any insight appreciated

thank you
Kevin







From mg at markgroen.com  Tue Dec  4 22:41:39 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Tue Dec  4 22:41:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] strange head tag
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204204930.01d16298@mail.idirect.ca>
Message-ID: <005901c17d47$010c0700$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Kaulback" <pkaulbak at idirect.ca>
Subject: [thelist] strange head tag


> I've come across a tag I've never heard tell of before and I can't
figure
> it out.  It is included in the head tag, specifically
>
> <head implied_="true">
>
> What does this tag actually do in a page?
>
> Peter Kaulback
>

Interesting tag, a search on Google finally came up with this link:
http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/bookmarks/
It's a tag used in the Swing HTML Parser apparently.


Mark

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Dec  4 22:52:11 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Dec  4 22:52:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] cleaning Db for output
In-Reply-To: <006301c17d46$9113c820$59d6fea9@krr>
References: <20011130144919.E74B7C05A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204205206.02fd8e20@baratta.com>

At 08:37 PM 12/4/2001, you wrote:

>Following this thread I was wondering if I could put some type of script
>together to clean any possible mistakes up so that I would be able to
>aviod having to code in this fashion?
>
> > varFieldOne = Trim(objRS("FieldOne"))

The main reason for this is that with ADO/ASP, even though the data could 
be going in clean - it does not always come out clean. Been through that 
hell. Wouldn't wish it on anyone (ok, maybe a couple but nobody on this 
list. ;-)
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Tue Dec  4 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Tue Dec  4 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-DEC-01
Message-ID: <200112050555.fB55t1kZ024381@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 04-DEC-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Jobs: ASP Developer Needed as Partner (Author: zincite)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/23/18095/index.html

I am an advanced ASP Developer starting a banner exchange program and
am looking for someone with intermediate to advanced ASP skills to
join as my partner.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From muinar at gmx.net  Wed Dec  5 00:40:43 2001
From: muinar at gmx.net (muinar)
Date: Wed Dec  5 00:40:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Review
In-Reply-To: <3c0da5bf.d7.0@server-mail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011205073526.00aa0bc0@mail.gmx.net>

Hi Mike

Looks nice and clear. A suggestion: Why not replace the top nav gifs
by a smaller, repeated bg image, and code the actual links in plain
html? You could save some kB and even apply some style (hover,
visited) to them!?

Mike

At 20:42 04.12.01 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I have just posted a new version of my site.
>
>http://www.mikeparsons.net/
>
>If you have a spare minute, i would like to hear your
>comments/suggestions.
>
>thanks,
>
>mike




From mle at cargo9.com  Wed Dec  5 00:42:48 2001
From: mle at cargo9.com (mle)
Date: Wed Dec  5 00:42:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: <CFINCLUDE> INSIDE <CFQUERY OUTPUT>?
References: <20011202223404.C344CBFE2@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C0DC216.F6C524B0@cargo9.com>

.jeff and Ray,

Slow to respond but not unappreciative of your help...

> so were you seeing "?include=%20myfile.cfm" in the url?
> i hope you're not passing the file to include directly in the url.  if so,
> you're opening up a major security hole into your website. 

What I call a url variable is not a value passed in a url, but the value
of a url 
(path to an include page) that is stored in a database and called by a
template serve-side.
There is no user input or opportunity to jigger the process, so far as I
can tell...

How do you display the url (as executed) of an include file? When trying
to sort out 
problems with dynamically generated paths, it would be useful to see it. 

I've tried using the CF path display functions and also the debugging
cgis through
CF administrator. Can't get them show me anything about the include
file.

Thanks.

mle



From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 00:52:51 2001
From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (kristina)
Date: Wed Dec  5 00:52:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAAEKIEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAAEKIEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <3727596962.20011205065418@kfx-design.co.uk>

John,

on Tuesday, December 04, 2001, 11:41:50 PM, John wrote:

::
> So my suggestion for defeating this lame behavior is to use CSS to do ALL of
> the formatting, and employ some kind of browser sniffer (prefferably server
> side, email me for PHP or SSI code) to serve the right stylesheet.
::

Can I be so cheeky as to request a copy of your PHP sniffer, and the
SSI code.  I'm just starting to get to grips with PHP, and I'm very
keen to learn more, by seeing other peoples code.

-- 
tia
 kristina                      

kristina at kfx-design.co.uk




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 01:02:23 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Dec  5 01:02:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: <CFINCLUDE> INSIDE <CFQUERY OUTPUT>?
In-Reply-To: <3C0DC216.F6C524B0@cargo9.com>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHOEOPFBAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

mle,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: mle
>
> What I call a url variable is not a value passed in a
> url, but the value of a url (path to an include page)
> that is stored in a database and called by a template
> serve-side.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

ah, then may i suggest you get in the habit of referring to that as
"template path" and leave "url" out of entirely as a url refers to an
address that can be resolved from a browser.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> How do you display the url (as executed) of an include
> file?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

try out the GetCurrentTemplatePath() function.

the should give you the fully-qualified path of the template being executed
that contains the function call.

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com  Wed Dec  5 03:51:35 2001
From: roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com (Roger Newbrook)
Date: Wed Dec  5 03:51:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies.
Message-ID: <E1C5DC6C1BE0D111A76C00A024500604012925ED@exchange.ncl.kmsoftware.com>

Andrea wrote: "Any suggestions on the best way to approach this situation? I
have 3 2-hour training sessions with them. (about 3-4 people)."

A lot has been said about the delivery mechanism, browsers, platforms etc,
my 2p worth is "don't trust the technology". which has kind of been hinted
at with the ditching of graphic browsers in favour of hand coding html. It
might actually be useful to show examples of 'automatically generated code'
from Word in particular and compare the size of the same file, hand
generated.

as an aside, the old "less is more" addage is particularly useful. In these
days of HUUUUUGE hard drives as standard on home computers, it still amazes
people how small (fitting onto a floppy for example) conventional websites
are, they still expect huge file sizes and masses of storage space to be
needed. perhaps you could make your trainees aware of this aspect of web
design and implementation too.

good luck

roger



From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 04:18:02 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 04:18:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
References: <MKELKPFONLHGDDNCHEOCKEDACJAA.allie@pajunas.com> <3C0D3543.32225.46B306@localhost>
Message-ID: <033e01c17d75$f4c48510$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith" <cache at dowebs.com>

> Did you do the same thing I did, change to using shtml on a site
> after people had bookmarked index.html?
>
> keith

Hi,
I wonder, why would you want to change to index.shtml?
If you want to start using SSI on the site, you can simply set .htaccess to
allow SSI-parsing in html files can't you?:
Like this:

AddHandler server-parsed .shtml .htm .html

Or does that only work for PHP?

Richard.




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 04:42:00 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 04:42:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] locking cgi-bin
References: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0112030108570.25840-100000@acmez.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <037601c17d79$44c43a30$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
Thanks Dave and Michael for the ideas.
I tried adding this to httpd.conf:

<Directory /var/www/cgi-bin>
AllowOverride All
</Directory>

and had to wait a few days for the server to be reset, but it didn't help.
The current setting was:
<Directory />
    Options FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride All
</Directory>

So I think all directories should be covered by that.

If I put one .htaccess in the /var/www directory (root owned currently)
would that cover
/var/www/cgi-bin
and
/var/www/htdocs
?
(instead of having two .htaccess' like now)

<Dave said:
<What happens if you change
<AuthUserFile /var/www/cgi-bin/.htpasswd
<to
<AuthUserFile /cgi-bin/.htpasswd
That didn't help either.
What I have at the moment is:

AuthUserFile /var/www/htdocs/.htpasswd

Which means two .htaccess' use the same password-file. the one in
/var/www/htdocs is fine, the one in /var/www/cgi-bin is not.

Any more ideas on this ?

Thanks,
Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Imamura" <gte255n at prism.gatech.edu>
>
> Sounds like the directory may not be set up to allow overrides. Try adding
> this to your server config:
>
> <Directory /var/www/cgi-bin>
>   AllowOverride All
> </Directory>





From mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com  Wed Dec  5 04:57:30 2001
From: mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com (Joergen Ramskov)
Date: Wed Dec  5 04:57:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>

Hi all,

I've been playing around a tiny bit with SVG just to get a little feeling of
how it works. It looks pretty cool and relatively simple. 

I have never worked with this before at all - in other words - I know
nothing about Flash.

What I'm interested in is creating something that works like
http://www.thebrain.com/ - I don't want to create a SVG version of their
application, it is for a total diffent kind of application. It's the way to
navigate around I'm thinking about. The "menu" items should be created
dynamically from a database. 

I figure SVG or flash would be the ideal choice for creating such a thing
(well creating the graphical part of it), but I'm of course open to other
suggestions.

It should be said that it should be possible to show other stuff (graphs,
diagrams, etc.) too.

Of course there are advantages to choosing both SVG and Flash. Here is what
I could think of:
Good (SVG): Open standard/W3C Recommendation, future browsers will probably
support it.
Bad (SVG): It's new, currently quite limited support in browsers, few
resources exists yet.
Good (Flash): It's the standard today, a lot of resources, good support in
browsers, been on the marked for quite a while.
Bad (Flash): It's proprietary and not a W3C recommendation, browser support
is up to Macromedia.

As I said before, what is important is support for creating it dynamically
from a database. What is the best choice there? I think I've heard Flash is
not that good, but maybe that's wrong?

Where can I find more info? (I have looked a bit around the net, but can't
find much about this)

Thanks in advance.


Greetings 
Joergen Ramskov




From chris at chrisg.com  Wed Dec  5 05:10:37 2001
From: chris at chrisg.com (Chris Garrett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:10:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG or VML
References: <E1C5DC6C1BE0D111A76C00A024500604012925ED@exchange.ncl.kmsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <0dee01c17d7d$fef07500$62fe530a@chrisglaptop>

Hi all,

I have been reading about SVG and VML. What are your thoughts on these two
standards? From my initial surfing it seems SVG is more of an
all-encompassing standard with more industry backing but VML has more
support from live sites?

Chris

--

LATEST ARTICLE:
Classic ASP HTML Email with embedded image attachment
http://www.RealWorldASP.com

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http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/subscribe.asp





From johnolival at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 05:26:11 2001
From: johnolival at yahoo.co.uk (John Olival)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:26:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)
References: <F243z93MgPPf3L9BGTu00001eb6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <02a901c17d80$0b79c4a0$8e7478d5@london.local>

Damian

> 2. SQL Server. Stores session info in a DB, that is fine, but most people
> getting around the session problem on a big scale would have done this by
> now, which means production code that is tested and working.
>

How does this DB solution work?

I assume you write a session id into the db when a user starts surfing your
site, and his session id is used in the url for subsequent pages. So when he
goes to another page, the asp code checks to see if the session id exists.
If it does it uses the appropriate info out of the database, otherwise it
creates a new session id. If the user leaves the site, after a certain
amount of time the session id is deleted from the database.

How do you automatically delete an entry from a database after a certain
period of time? Is this really beneficial since server processing is
increased and time wasted by having to go back to the database for every
page?

JohnO


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From don at aspalliance.com  Wed Dec  5 05:44:03 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:44:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)
References: <F243z93MgPPf3L9BGTu00001eb6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c17d81$6d536680$f7772241@dmak>

What I meant was that there were much better alternatives to sessions - not
necessarily that .NET sessions were better.

Actually I should have been more clear, but the ultimate way to manage the
session state of a user is to not even use sessions at all, but actually use
viewstate, which is basically a dictionary-like interface to store objects
associated with a string key. . See this article:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnaspnet/ht
ml/Asp11222001.asp

In short - it ROCKS and totally blows managing state with sessions out of
the water.

And of course there is alot of .NET marketing hype, and whether that is
annoying or not is debatable. But I have been programmiing with it for over
a year now and have completely fallen in love with it. ASP.NET makes
development a breeze. I don't have to worry about spending hours building a
custom DB-based session handler. I can spend my valuable time doing more
important things that the end-user needs, like a usable interface and
documentation and really make my applications presentation layer top-notch.

Okay I'm done with my ASP.NET commercial endorsement now. . . .<grin>

Don Makoviney
MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
http://www.makovision.com/
Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
http://www.makovision.com/subs/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian Maclennan" <damian_mac at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)


> >
> >Thankfully ASP.NET (which is due out anytime) takes care of ALOT of the
> >problems with sessions. (http://www.asp.net/) Once people begin migrating
> >to
> >ASP.NET you will see less and less session issues.
> >
>
> Not to nitpick here....but...
>
> I had a look into ASP.Net session handling, basically you have 3 choices.
>
> 1. Standard asp sessions, this looks exactly the same as what is already
in
> ASP. In memory, on the one web server, not clusterable etc.
>
> This would have all the same problems.
>
> 2. SQL Server. Stores session info in a DB, that is fine, but most people
> getting around the session problem on a big scale would have done this by
> now, which means production code that is tested and working.
>
> 3. A State Server. This is kinda cool, a dedicated server for storing
> session info. BUT...you can not cluster this machine, so if it falls
> over....goodbye session.
>
> So, basically .net session handling isn't the be all and end all. I am
sure
> you have looked into it too. It is just that I have seen a lot of blanket
> statements like ".net solves all these problems so you won't have to worry
> anymore". The only real way it solves it is by using a technique that has
> been used for a long time.
>
> Actually, this is something that is a little annoying about .net. A lot of
> the new features is all stuff that we have worked around anyway and have
> lots of production code doing it. I have stuff like DB based sessions and
> caching engines running in production and am quite happy with the way they
> work. There is a lot of marketing hype going on.
>
> Just wanted to clear that up :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Damian
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From don at aspalliance.com  Wed Dec  5 05:46:09 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:46:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
References: <20011115182840.80518.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu> <546767085.20011204223730@4serendipity.com>
Message-ID: <004901c17d81$b83fd9d0$f7772241@dmak>

> JKP> anyone else out there know of a favorite web development e-zine-type
site?

<blatant self-promotion>

MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
http://www.makovision.com/
Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
http://www.makovision.com/subs/

</blatant self-promotion>


HTH,

Don Makoviney
MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
http://www.makovision.com/
Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
http://www.makovision.com/subs/












----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Stevens" <lists at 4serendipity.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Web Development Sites


> Hello Joel,
>
> Thursday, November 15, 2001, 1:33:07 PM, you wrote:
>
> JKP> I'm impressed with the amount and relevence of the articles featured
on sites
> JKP> such as webdevelopersjournal.com, webtechniques.com, and
webreview.com. Does
> JKP> anyone else out there know of a favorite web development e-zine-type
site?
>
> JKP> -joeljkp
>
>
> JKP> -------------------------------------------------------
> JKP> http://www.ballsome.com
>
> JKP> ---------------------------------------
> JKP> For unsubscribe and other options, including
>
> Another good site with a broad range of articles is
> http://sitepoint.com
>
> Additionally, the site also hosts an active set of web development
> forms at:
> http://www.sitepointforums.com/
>
>
> <tip type="W3C Mailing lists">
> The W3C hosts a number of active lists covering such topics as
> accessibility, style sheets, xml and other web and consortium-related
> topics.
> List archives are available at: http://www.w3.org/Mail/Lists.html
> </tip>
>
>
> Andrew
>
> http://4serendipity.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Wed Dec  5 05:50:46 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:50:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] cleaning Db for output
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204205206.02fd8e20@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHGEHGCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

Anthony - oh the joy of debugging - i hear that!

Also, on information that has been inputed by a user you want to trim and
replace some characters - or you will find yourself in all sorts of
trouble - only "" and '' need replacing (especially in Access).


ADDING TO A DATABASE::::::::::::
<!-- This line replace all ' with '' -->
varFieldOneA = Replace(Trim(Request.Form("FieldOne")), "'","''")
<!-- This line replaces all " with { -->
varFieldOne  = Replace(Trim(varFieldOneA),chr(34),chr(123))

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::

EXTRACTING FROM A DATABASE::::::::::::
<!-- THIS DOES THE REVERSE OF EVERYTHING YOU DID WHEN ADDING TO THE
DATABASE -->
varFieldOneA = Replace(Trim(objRS("FieldOne")), "''","'")
varFieldOne  = Replace(Trim(varFieldOneA),chr(123),chr(34))

cheers

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baratta
Sent: 05 December 2001 04:54
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] cleaning Db for output


At 08:37 PM 12/4/2001, you wrote:

>Following this thread I was wondering if I could put some type of script
>together to clean any possible mistakes up so that I would be able to
>aviod having to code in this fashion?
>
> > varFieldOne = Trim(objRS("FieldOne"))

The main reason for this is that with ADO/ASP, even though the data could
be going in clean - it does not always come out clean. Been through that
hell. Wouldn't wish it on anyone (ok, maybe a couple but nobody on this
list. ;-)
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From adrian at aussiebidder.com  Wed Dec  5 05:54:22 2001
From: adrian at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:54:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
Message-ID: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPOEGPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>

Hi People,

I searched the archives because I thought I had seen a lengthy discussion on
this in the past but couldn't find anything.  I also found very little on
the net (must have been using the wrong query!)

I need to be able to send an email in html format. From what I have been
able to glean so far I need to add headers to what I've got. I'm hosted on a
unix/linux box and cant change config files so I need to send the header
information to Sendmail on the fly  Something like this what I need to add:

#MIME-Version: 1.0
#Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
#Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(without the # sign)

This is how I send email from within my program presently:
$config{'mailprog'} = '/usr/lib/sendmail -t';
<snip>
  open MAIL, "|$config{'mailprog'}";
               print MAIL "To: $to\r\nFrom: $from\r\nSubject:
$subject\r\n\r\n$message\n";

                close MAIL;
</snip>

..but how do I add the header info.

(Marking up the $message isnt a problem)

Any and all help is appreciated.

Regards

Adrian Fischer




From chris at chrisg.com  Wed Dec  5 05:55:07 2001
From: chris at chrisg.com (Chris Garrett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 05:55:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
References: <20011115182840.80518.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu> <546767085.20011204223730@4serendipity.com> <004901c17d81$b83fd9d0$f7772241@dmak>
Message-ID: <0ecd01c17d84$3a6e0b50$62fe530a@chrisglaptop>

Don Makoviney said:
> <blatant self-promotion>

If we are getting into self-promotion then ...

-- 

LATEST ARTICLE: 
Classic ASP HTML Email with embedded image attachment
http://www.RealWorldASP.com

Don't miss the news! - Sign up for ASP/.NET Newsletter: 
http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/subscribe.asp





From joshua at alphashop.net  Wed Dec  5 06:31:37 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Dec  5 06:31:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: <CFINCLUDE> INSIDE <CFQUERY OUTPUT>?
References: <20011202223404.C344CBFE2@relay.evolt.org> <3C0DC216.F6C524B0@cargo9.com>
Message-ID: <003001c17d8a$60d27a50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

A trick to find out exactly what file CF was looking for during an include
is to wrap the cfinclude in a <cftry>/<cfcatch> combination.  Then, in the
cfcatch, display cfcatch.MissingFileName.

Like so:

<cftry>
  <cfinclude template="[dynamic filename]">
  <cfcatch type="Any">
    <cfoutput>Missing File Name: #cfcatch.MissingFileName</cfoutput>
  </cfcatch>
</cftry>

HTH,

-joshua


----- Original Message -----
From: "mle" <mle at cargo9.com>
Subject: [thelist] Re: <CFINCLUDE> INSIDE <CFQUERY OUTPUT>?


: How do you display the url (as executed) of an include file? When trying
: to sort out
: problems with dynamically generated paths, it would be useful to see it.




From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 06:56:07 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Wed Dec  5 06:56:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
Message-ID: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com>

The other day I asked if anyone had their own e-mail
validators (javascript) better than doing an indexOf('@')
and indexOf('.'), and received no replies about that, so I
went to make my own one, this one will only work in
javascript 1.2 and up, but most people would have at least
that these days I'd assume. Anyway, without further ado
here is my solution to the problem (it can be spoofed, but
it's more difficult than the other one. I've checked it and
it worked in IE6, NS6, and Op5, if anyone finds a bug or
has an improvement, please tell me)

<tip type="javascript email validation">
Regular expressions may be ugly, but they do what they do
pretty well. If you want a better email validation script
for javascript than checking for the presence of @ and .,
then the following may help you out.

var pattern=/(^[
\-_\.a-zA-Z0-9]+)@((([0-9]{1,3}\.){3}([0-9]{1,3})((:[0-9])*))|(([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+)(\.[a-zA-Z]{2,})+(\.[a-zA-Z]{2})?((:[0-9])*)))/;

if (email == ""){
	alert("You must supply an address in the \'to\' field.");
}
else if (email.search(pattern) == -1) {
	alert("You must supply only valid e-mail addresses.");
}
</tip>

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From cewing at mooremedical.com  Wed Dec  5 07:15:46 2001
From: cewing at mooremedical.com (Ewing, Christopher)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:15:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] <CFMAIL> Multi-part messages?
Message-ID: <E2C69736017ED511A6BF00508BB93CCE0115C0E2@MAILSERV1>

I'd like to convert and order confirmation email that is sent to our
customers after placing an order to HTML.  However, this would affect our
non-HTML users.  Is there a way to specify to <CFMAIL> that the message
should be sent in a multi-part format with both Text and HTML messages
included?

I've got CF 5.0 server.

Thanks,
Chris



From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 07:17:02 2001
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:17:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8111883327.20011205131757@web-bitch.co.uk>

On 05 December 2001 at 12:57:38, Lachlan Cannon <tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com> wrote:

my reg ex knowledge isn't good, so...

<snip>
LC> then the following may help you out.

LC> var pattern=/(^[
LC> \-_\.a-zA-Z0-9]+)@((([0-9]{1,3}\.){3}([0-9]{1,3})((:[0-9])*))|(([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+)(\.[a-zA-Z]{2,})+(\.[a-zA-Z]{2})?((:[0-9])*)))/;

is there anything wrong with using:

   /^[\w-\.]*[\w-\.]+\@[\w-]+\.+[\w-\.]+[\w]$

as the pattern??

it seems to work with all the valid email addresses i throw at it.

cheers,

darren.




From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 07:25:50 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:25:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPOEGPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
Message-ID: <OE32t2S8jPB5YFUUWsd00010581@hotmail.com>

From: "Adrian Fischer" <adrian at aussiebidder.com>
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL


> I need to be able to send an email in html format. From what I have been
> able to glean so far I need to add headers to what I've got. I'm hosted on
a
> unix/linux box and cant change config files so I need to send the header
> information to Sendmail on the fly  Something like this what I need to
add:
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

These are called headers.

>   open MAIL, "|$config{'mailprog'}";
>                print MAIL "To: $to\r\nFrom: $from\r\nSubject:
> $subject\r\n\r\n$message\n";

"to", "from" and "subject" are headers too, and the rule indeed says that an
empty line must seperate them from the body of the message.

> ..but how do I add the header info.

Just print all the headers together. A clearer syntax is:

open MAIL, "|$config{'mailprog'}";

print MAIL <<EOS;
To: $to
From: $from
Subject: $subject
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EOS

print MAIL $message\n";
close MAIL;






From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 07:42:51 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:42:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPOEGPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com> <OE32t2S8jPB5YFUUWsd00010581@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <OE23OwYEIEktho3sD1I000032d0@hotmail.com>

From: "Matthew Blanchard" <blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] HTML EMAIL

. . .
> 
> Just print all the headers together. A clearer syntax is:
> 
. . . 
> print MAIL $message\n";
. . .

hmm... that should be:

print MAIL "$message\n";




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Wed Dec  5 07:48:47 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:48:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
In-Reply-To: <004901c17d81$b83fd9d0$f7772241@dmak>
References: <20011115182840.80518.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>
 <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu>
 <546767085.20011204223730@4serendipity.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205054744.01f52090@mail.midtown.net>

At 03:41 AM 12/05/2001, Don Makoviney wrote:
><blatant self-promotion>
>
>MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
>http://www.makovision.com/
>Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
>http://www.makovision.com/subs/
>
></blatant self-promotion>
>
>
>HTH,
>
>Don Makoviney
>MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
>http://www.makovision.com/
>Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
>http://www.makovision.com/subs/

Don, as far as I'm concerned, I'm telling people to "run don't walk" to 
subscribe to this. It's terrific. I've been subscribed for a couple of 
weeks or more now and love it.

Just thought I'd toss that in. :-)

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 07:52:32 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:52:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
I've been working with SVG in a professional context for the last 6 months,
and can offer a little feedback from that:

* Use Flash if you want to make a Flash-like website - replicating the same
effect using SVG is hard.
* Use Flash if you want complex animations, or complex games. (SVG's built
in SMIL animation engine is extremely processor intensive, although good
results can be had using Javascript animations.)
* Use Flash if your users will not be so computer literate, for instance a
children's site, or a site appealing to a wide audience.
* Use Flash if sound is important - SVG/SMIL supports sound, but it's pretty
basic.
* Use Flash if you prefer WYSIWYG to script.

SVG has some distinct advantages too:
* It's fully scriptable - using a DOM1 (part DOM2) interface and Javascript.
That means you can start with an empty SVG image, and build it up using
Javascript. This is great for real-time display of , for instance, a
machine's status online. You can have dials and readouts replicating those
on the machine, showing the values in buffered real-time.
* SVG can easily be created by ASP, PHP, Perl or whatever, and extracted
from a database. (take care to set correct mime-types on the server)
* It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash probably does
too) - Not on Opera though.
* It has a built-in ECMA-script (javascript) engine, so you don't have to
code per browser, and you don't need to learn Flash's action-script.
* SVG *is* XML, meaning it can be read by anything that can read XML . Flash
can *use* XML, but needs to convert it before use.
* This also allows SVG to be transformed through an XSLT stylesheet/parser.
* SVG supports standard CSS1 style-sheets.
* text used in SVG remains selectable and searchable.
* You only need a texteditor to create SVG, no need to buy Flash, there are
a few SVG editors available, but only just starting to become useable.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joergen Ramskov" <mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com>
> Of course there are advantages to choosing both SVG and Flash. Here is
what
> I could think of:
> Good (SVG): Open standard/W3C Recommendation, future browsers will
probably
> support it.
There is a good plugin, from Adobe which is distributed with all their
software, including Acrobat Reader, so if you don't put a PDF file on the
web because your audience might not have acrobat reader, you shouldn't use
SVG . Mozilla has a version with (partial) native SVG support, don't expect
Microsoft to include the SVG plugin natively anytime soon.

> Where can I find more info? (I have looked a bit around the net, but can't
> find much about this)
>
A nice list of resources here:
http://www.pinkjuice.com/SVG/SVGlinks.htm
and join the developers list here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

Cheers,
Richard.






From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Wed Dec  5 07:57:35 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:57:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [thesite] Evolt survey
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055740.03158830@mail.midtown.net>

At 07:26 AM 12/03/2001, you wrote:
>Hi folks -
>
>Have your say - evolt.org survey:
>http://www.evolt.org/article/announce/27/18041/index.html
>
>.djc.
>- evolt.org grand poo-bah -

I just wanted to mention that I just took the survey. Lots of great 
questions, and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few minutes to 
take the survey. It was fun to do. You can be anonymous or not, and the 
interface was easy to use and visually interesting, too.

So I also encourage everyone to take a few minutes to fill it out.

After all, the grand poo-bah hath spoken.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From chris at chrisg.com  Wed Dec  5 07:59:37 2001
From: chris at chrisg.com (Chris Garrett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 07:59:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <108b01c17d95$9a4a1530$62fe530a@chrisglaptop>

> * It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash probably does
> too) - Not on Opera though.

I take it you mean "with a plugin"?

Chris






From don at aspalliance.com  Wed Dec  5 08:28:53 2001
From: don at aspalliance.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Wed Dec  5 08:28:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
References: <20011115182840.80518.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> <1005849187.3bf40a63dd018@webmail.msstate.edu> <546767085.20011204223730@4serendipity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011205054744.01f52090@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <005301c17d98$73b04f40$f7772241@dmak>

Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns wrote:
> Don, as far as I'm concerned, I'm telling people to "run don't walk" to
> subscribe to this. It's terrific. I've been subscribed for a couple of
> weeks or more now and love it.


Shirley, you are my hero! Thanks for the kudos.

Now if I could just quit my day job. . . . .

<tip type="regular expressions">
For great help with regular expressions visit the Regular Expression Library
at http://regxlib.com/ . You can search for regular expressions, submit your
own, and even ask for help with your regular expression problems.
</tip>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Web Development Sites


> At 03:41 AM 12/05/2001, Don Makoviney wrote:
> ><blatant self-promotion>
> >
> >MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
> >http://www.makovision.com/
> >Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
> >http://www.makovision.com/subs/
> >
> ></blatant self-promotion>
> >
> >
> >HTH,
> >
> >Don Makoviney
> >MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
> >http://www.makovision.com/
> >Free WebDev/Usability Newsletter
> >http://www.makovision.com/subs/
>
> Don, as far as I'm concerned, I'm telling people to "run don't walk" to
> subscribe to this. It's terrific. I've been subscribed for a couple of
> weeks or more now and love it.
>
> Just thought I'd toss that in. :-)
>
> Warmly,
> Shirley
>
> --
> Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
> SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
> Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
> Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
> Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
> Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 08:54:52 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 08:54:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OE34jnzi95HfqR77bie0001c9e2@hotmail.com>

From: "Lachlan Cannon" <tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator


> here is my solution to the problem (it can be spoofed, but
> it's more difficult than the other one. I've checked it and
> it worked in IE6, NS6, and Op5, if anyone finds a bug or
> has an improvement, please tell me)
>
> var pattern=/(^[
>
\-_\.a-zA-Z0-9]+)@((([0-9]{1,3}\.){3}([0-9]{1,3})((:[0-9])*))|(([a-zA-Z0-9\-
]+)(\.[a-zA-Z]{2,})+(\.[a-zA-Z]{2})?((:[0-9])*)))/;

I think a less restrictive pattern is better (like darren's. The simpler,
the better). Email address validation is error prone. Check:

http://aspn.activestate.com//ASPN/Reference/Products/ActivePerl/lib/Pod/perl
faq9.html#how%20do%20i%20check%20a%20valid%20mail%20address

Specifically, IP addresses can be given as 'number.number' or 'number' (i.e.
not just quadruple),
you forgot the '$' at the end, so sometimes there's only a partial match,
and, if I got it right, your pattern accepts digits in the host name only
(when you include the '$', of course).

I use the following code:

function isValidEmail(str) {
    if (!str.replace) {
        // broswer does not support REs
        return (str.indexOf("@") != -1);
    }
    else {
        var re = new
RegExp("^\\s*[\\w\\-\\.]+\\@[\\w\\-]+(\\.[\\w\\-]+)+\\s*$");
        return re.test(str);
    }
}

(I haven't included a ":port" part.)

It works on old browsers as well (it has "new RegExp", not an RE literal).

The following article has some more code.

http://tech.irt.org/articles/js049/index.htm





From mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com  Wed Dec  5 09:03:37 2001
From: mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com (Joergen Ramskov)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:03:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <135098489.1007564708346.JavaMail.root@boots>

> From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:50:56 +0100

> * Use Flash if you want to make a Flash-like website - 
> replicating the same effect using SVG is hard.

What do you mean with a "Flash-like website"?

This will be for business, used primarily by IT consultants. It will not use
complex animations, sound and will not be "flashy". Although "looking good"
is always a bit important, functionality/ease of use is the key issue for
this project. 
 
> SVG has some distinct advantages too:
> * SVG can easily be created by ASP, PHP, Perl or whatever, 
> and extracted from a database. (take care to set correct mime-types 
> on the server)

I have been programming in Java (primarily servlets), so this is really what
I'm looking for. The information that should be displayed is in a database.

> * It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash 
> probably does too) - Not on Opera though.

How do you get SVG to run in Mozilla/NS6? Do you use the native Mozilla
support? AFAIK the Adobe plugin doesn't work with it, or?

> * It has a built-in ECMA-script (javascript) engine, so you 
> don't have to code per browser

That I believe is a nice thing, correct? :)

> * You only need a texteditor to create SVG, no need to buy 
> Flash, there are a few SVG editors available, but only just 
> starting to become useable.

I prefer hand-coding html too, so that is probably fine :)

> A nice list of resources here:
> http://www.pinkjuice.com/SVG/SVGlinks.htm
> and join the developers list here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

Thanks a lot!

--
Joergen Ramskov




From gozz at gozz.com  Wed Dec  5 09:42:36 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:42:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
In-Reply-To: <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>
 <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]>

The only reasons to use SVG would be that you already know it and 
ensuring that your app will work on users machine is a non-issue. 
Making text look as crisp as thebrain.com's applet is tricky in 
Flash, but if crisp aliased text important, the hassle to do it would 
seem small compared to dealing with the reaction when you say, "Here 
it is! It's SVG!"

Not wanting to start a nauseating discussion, but clearing up the 
misinfo posted to this thread:

>Bad (Flash): It's proprietary

The SWF format has been open for years (http://www.openswf.org/ ) ... 
there are plenty of non-Macromedia tools to create SWFs that play in 
MM's free Flash Player.

>SVG can easily be created by ASP, PHP, Perl or whatever, and extracted
>from a database.

Anything that can be shown by the Flash player can be created/updated 
via a database ... you just need to produce text files with the 
backend software of your choice.

>* It [SVG] has a built-in ECMA-script (javascript) engine, so you 
>don't have to
>code per browser, and you don't need to learn Flash's action-script.

Same thing with ActionScript on all counts minus learning 
ActionScript, which IS ECMAscript compliant ... if you know 
JavaScript, learning ActionScript is just a matter of getting 
familiar with the Flash specific methods and properties.


-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 09:51:32 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:51:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAAEKIEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <OE722Sb3TocQtFoBe7p00010076@hotmail.com>

From: "John Corry" <john at neoncowboy.com>
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess


> Doh! I forgot to change the subject :)
>
> |
> |Can anyone help me learn how to use .htaccess to do the following:
> |
> |When a user requests http://www.domain.com/dir, they get: index.shtml
from
> |that directory.

DirectoryIndex index.shtml

> |When a user requests  http://www.domain.com/dir/index.html , they also
get:
> |index.shtml from that directory.

Redirect /dir/index.html http://www.domain.com/dir/index.shtml





From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 09:54:29 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:54:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
Message-ID: <F123Ae2hXSDx1kLwxTQ0000db5c@hotmail.com>

I wrote a email validation function (PHP) a long time ago. Don't know how 
upto date it is, but you might find it interesting :

function checkEmail($address)
    {
    if(ereg( "^[^@ 
]+@([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+\.)+([a-zA-Z0-9\-]{2}|net|com|gov|mil|org|edu|int)$",$address) 
)
    		return true;
    	else
    		return false;
    }

(note line wrap)

You can download the code here :
http://www.planet-source-code.com/xq/ASP/txtCodeId.430/lngWid.8/qx/vb/scripts/ShowCode.htm

(again, note line wrap)

Not fool proof, but has worked for me so far.

Regards,
Burhan Khalid

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From peter.vandijck at vardus.com  Wed Dec  5 09:55:18 2001
From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:55:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>

Hi everyone,
time to crash test this site:
http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
(It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)

I'm looking for:
- HTML problems
- usability / content problems or suggestions
- anything else!

And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached to
your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit - I'm
on that...

Be though!
Thanks!
Peter




From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 09:59:06 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec  5 09:59:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPOEGPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
Message-ID: <3C0E4429.3070503@members.evolt.org>

Hi Adrian -

Here's the set of headers I use when sending out HTML email:

Errors: postmaster at yourdomain.com
From: sales at yourdomain.com <sales at yourdomain.com>
To: foo at someoneelse.com
Subject: HTML Email
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="file.html"
Content-Base: http://www.yourdomain.com/email
<insert html here>


i save that file with headers & HTML to a file named 'file.html' and 
then pipe it to sendmail. All the images referenced in the HTML are 
pointing at an absolute URL on a webserver somewhere so I don't have to 
deal with multi-part mails(another nightmare). Then it gets piped to 
sendmail with the -t flag like so: "sendmail -t < file.html"

Not the cleanest way to do it, but just another way :)

hope that helps a bit..

.djc.


Adrian Fischer wrote:

> Hi People,
> 
> I searched the archives because I thought I had seen a lengthy discussion on
> this in the past but couldn't find anything.  I also found very little on
> the net (must have been using the wrong query!)
> 
> I need to be able to send an email in html format. From what I have been
> able to glean so far I need to add headers to what I've got. I'm hosted on a
> unix/linux box and cant change config files so I need to send the header
> information to Sendmail on the fly  Something like this what I need to add:
> 
> #MIME-Version: 1.0
> #Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
> #Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> (without the # sign)
> 
> This is how I send email from within my program presently:
> $config{'mailprog'} = '/usr/lib/sendmail -t';
> <snip>
>   open MAIL, "|$config{'mailprog'}";
>                print MAIL "To: $to\r\nFrom: $from\r\nSubject:
> $subject\r\n\r\n$message\n";
> 
>                 close MAIL;
> </snip>
> 
> ..but how do I add the header info.
> 
> (Marking up the $message isnt a problem)
> 
> Any and all help is appreciated.






From persist1 at io.com  Wed Dec  5 10:00:37 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:00:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Turning Printies into Webbies. (vice versa?)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIAJIMMMFJHEIALEBAEPHGCAA.andrea@geonetric.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112050946230.21803-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Andrea Belk wrote:

> I think that taking a webbie to a printie would be actually easier. Remove
> all of the current headaches you have with browser compatability and replace
> them with color matching and the fact that you can make NO correctionss with
> those items that have been sent to press. (spelling errors could cost you
> mucho dienero)

And that, folks, is my story.  I run away screaming from print jobs (but
it helps that I know loads of people with loads of talent & experience
when it comes to print design)... yeah, it's nice to know the size of your
canvas, but the fact that mistakes can't be sucked down the memory hole
just makes me shudder.

That, and smallbiz clients with lots of experience as site-owners tend to
have heart attacks when you tell them how much a run of 5000 marketing
glossies is actually going to cost, AFTER you've charged them for the
design work itself.

> I'ts a two sided coin - I personally like the freedom of print with the
> flexibility of the web... but who's picky! ;)

Regardless of the vector of the transcendence, the fact remains that
you're dealing with two different media.  When training for the
transition, THAT is the first point that has to be addressed.

"The old rules don't apply - but there are new ones."

The advantages a professional designer brings to the use of color
translate pretty well, but composition is handled in completely different
ways.  And while the lack of control over type on the Web will drive any
designer nuts, I don't think that a Web designer who hasn't been trained
for print will be able to handle type worth a damn in the latter medium
themselves...

And when it comes to Web composition, I've noticed that print designers
tend to create pages that fall into one of two categories:

1.  Every element of the design is controlled to the last pixel, and
    table slices are in bountiful evidence.
2.  The designer has given up any hope of controlling anything, and as a
    consequence the presentation is nothing more than a series of
    paragraphs.

"Talent" is definitely a must-have, but it DOES assume a familiarity with
how the Web works from the inside.

Thus, the second objective:  HTML and its successors are semantic, and
everything is handled on a code & markup basis meaning that the
structure dictates the process for creating presentation... as opposed to
print, where the presentation is meant entirely to lend "clues" about the
structure.

Another point to touch on would be the possibilities the Web offers in
terms of interactivity...


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 10:06:39 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:06:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <108b01c17d95$9a4a1530$62fe530a@chrisglaptop>
Message-ID: <03ac01c17da6$a0a5ad20$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Garrett" <chris at chrisg.com>

> > * It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash probably
does
> > too) - Not on Opera though.
>
> I take it you mean "with a plugin"?
>

Yeah, the Adobe v3.0 SVG plugin. A beta version for Linux was released last
week .
Naturally Flash needs a plugin too, it's just distributed by most major
browser companies by default.

Richard






From edshuck at noevalley.com  Wed Dec  5 10:11:27 2001
From: edshuck at noevalley.com (Ed Shuck)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:11:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>
 <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
 <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]> <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>
Message-ID: <001101c17da8$184d9580$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>

i like both the subject and the site.  no lack of content.

if you  wanted to remove the little blue border from the jpg/gif images,
include the command border="0" in the src tag.  but for some of the images
it would be inappropriate since the img bg is white and the src would lose
definition.

a very nice site.

peace

ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Van Dijck <peter.vandijck at vardus.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:46 AM
Subject: [thelist] site review


> Hi everyone,
> time to crash test this site:
> http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
> (It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)
>
> I'm looking for:
> - HTML problems
> - usability / content problems or suggestions
> - anything else!
>
> And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached to
> your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit - I'm
> on that...
>
> Be though!
> Thanks!
> Peter
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From persist1 at io.com  Wed Dec  5 10:12:13 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:12:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <3727596962.20011205065418@kfx-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112051003170.21803-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, kristina wrote:

> Can I be so cheeky as to request a copy of your PHP sniffer, and the
> SSI code.  I'm just starting to get to grips with PHP, and I'm very
> keen to learn more, by seeing other peoples code.

The way that I've done it goes something like this:

if (strstr($HTTP_USER_AGENT,$telltale)) { $supported = TRUE; }

where $telltale is probably an array element referenced via a loop.  Once
you've assigned a value to $supported, you can then take whatever approach
you feel is best.

Some working source can be found at:

http://www.io.com/persist1/home.phps

Looking at it for the first time in several days I see that it can be
optimized in several places, but in any case it answers your request.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"





From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 10:21:23 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:21:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
References: <MKELKPFONLHGDDNCHEOCKEDACJAA.allie@pajunas.com> <3C0D3543.32225.46B306@localhost> <033e01c17d75$f4c48510$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <OE21ie2I4upgNECPkGS00019daf@hotmail.com>

From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>
Subject: Re: [thelist] .htaccess


> From: "Keith" <cache at dowebs.com>
>
> > Did you do the same thing I did, change to using shtml on a site
> > after people had bookmarked index.html?
> >
> > keith
>
> Hi,
> I wonder, why would you want to change to index.shtml?
> If you want to start using SSI on the site, you can simply set .htaccess
to
> allow SSI-parsing in html files can't you?:
> Like this:
>
> AddHandler server-parsed .shtml .htm .html
>

It's possible, but static files ('.html') are more efficient. You don't want
the server to parse and process every '.html' file, and there's also the
caching issue: emitting "Last-modified".

(But it's possible to treat individual '.html' files as '.shtml': see
XBitHack)




From mg at markgroen.com  Wed Dec  5 10:24:31 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:24:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]> <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>
Message-ID: <00b301c17da9$327a37a0$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Van Dijck" <peter.vandijck at vardus.com>
Subject: [thelist] site review


> Hi everyone,
> time to crash test this site:
> http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
> (It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)
>
> I'm looking for:
> - HTML problems
> - usability / content problems or suggestions
> - anything else!
>
> And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached
to
> your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit -
I'm
> on that...
>
> Be though!
> Thanks!
> Peter
>

Nice site, one little problem for me though... I was reading this page:
http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia/travel/safety/55 and when I got
to the bottom I definitely wanted to hear the end of the story so I
clicked on the link following: "The next page is where things get truly
fishy, read on..." and no story! Where is the rest of the story?


Mark

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada





From persist1 at io.com  Wed Dec  5 10:34:15 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:34:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205054744.01f52090@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112051034060.23072-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns wrote:

> >MAKOVISION.COM "Handpicked News For Web Developers"
> >http://www.makovision.com/
> >
> >Don Makoviney
>
> Don, as far as I'm concerned, I'm telling people to "run don't walk" to
> subscribe to this. It's terrific. I've been subscribed for a couple of
> weeks or more now and love it.
>
> Just thought I'd toss that in. :-)

And that, folks, is advice you can bank on.

While we're discussing blatant self-promotion, I figure I should direct
everybody to the right column of my .sig, ya know?

There'll be a new issue forthcoming in several days.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 10:34:55 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:34:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]> <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>
Message-ID: <3C0E4C8F.4020909@members.evolt.org>

Hi Peter -

Nice! Some very nice pictures you have there.. The only problem I saw 
was the text on a FAQ page was very large.

again, nice site!

.djc.

Peter Van Dijck wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> time to crash test this site:
> http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
> (It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)
> 
> I'm looking for:
> - HTML problems
> - usability / content problems or suggestions
> - anything else!
> 
> And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached to
> your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit - I'm
> on that...





From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 10:35:17 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:35:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <135098489.1007564708346.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <044701c17daa$a1dde230$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joergen Ramskov" <mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com>
> > * Use Flash if you want to make a Flash-like website -
> > replicating the same effect using SVG is hard.
>
> What do you mean with a "Flash-like website"?
Something like this:
http://disney.go.com/park/homepage/today/flash/index.html

> This will be for business, used primarily by IT consultants. It will not
use
> complex animations, sound and will not be "flashy". Although "looking
good"
> is always a bit important, functionality/ease of use is the key issue for
> this project.
I use it to make web-applications, either for intra-net, or B to B. I would
not use it for something easily done in Flash, or something that's mainly
there too "look good". there should be enough insentive to install the 2 meg
plugin if that's not already done.


> I have been programming in Java (primarily servlets), so this is really
what
> I'm looking for. The information that should be displayed is in a
database.
Look into Batik then, it's a Java implementation of SVG, with a server-side
and client-side component.

> > * It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash
> > probably does too) - Not on Opera though.
>
> How do you get SVG to run in Mozilla/NS6? Do you use the native Mozilla
> support? AFAIK the Adobe plugin doesn't work with it, or?
The plugin, but you have to drop the NPSVG3.dll file into Mozilla's plugin
directory yourself.

> > * It has a built-in ECMA-script (javascript) engine, so you
> > don't have to code per browser
>
> That I believe is a nice thing, correct? :)
Sure it is, but if needed you can override this setting, and use the
browsers script-engine. This is especially nice when making windows
applications using .hta for instance. it allows you to use MS's J-script
engine, so you can use activeX like FileSystemObject  etc.

Cheers,
Richard.





From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 10:42:16 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:42:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Review
Message-ID: <F51oHzGkzMcvsq9IcVu00004115@hotmail.com>

Hey Peter :

I'm on a machine with Windows 98, running IE 5.5 at 800 by 600.

General Observations :

  I like the navigation scheme of your site. The links are clearly visible, 
and easy to recognise. However, I would suggest that giving your sublinks 
(the ones that appear when you click on a main link), an onhover action. I 
had to guess to find out if they were links or not. Perhaps making them bold 
would be the ticket? Also, I like the site map, but I think it would be 
better if you were to provide a separate page for it. Since it floods the 
bottom of your screen, there is un-necessary scrolling. I would suggest 
either a separate page, or a more shrinked down version. Perhaps a text 
based link bar at the bottom? I also like your picture bar, but the link at 
the bottom (more pictures), appeared off margin (too much to the right) in 
my screen. Also, browsing the site I found that randomly Colombia wasn't 
capitalized. Might want to look into that. In addition, not all article 
headings are capitalized, and some contain periods at the end. I am guessing 
these are coming from a database, might want to check those table entries.

Specifics (page by page breakdown) :

Index :

Typo?    : highschool
Spelling : high school

Its United Arab Emirates, not United Emirates as you state.
Also, you forgot the b in being (same article)

News (Archives) :

After this entry :
2000-08-26 Neighbors Worry About Colombian Aid - NY Times

The dates are displayed as zeros, and the list repeats itself.


Travel (things to do) :

  Your bicycle article is repeated twice :

bicycle [snip]
Bicycling is maybe the best way to travel, and you can do it in [snip]

Bicycle through Colombia [snip]
Bicycling is maybe the best way to travel, and you can do it in [snip]

Travel (travel stories) :

  Typos : kindof
  Spelling : kind of

  Typos : tripreport
  Spelling : trip report


life in columbia (working, teaching English) :

These are some tips that worked for me.< <-- ?


life in columbia (culture and daily life section) :

test Betty La Fea is a wildly popular telenovela (tv soap) [snip]
Should that test be there?

Typo? : highschool
Correct : high school


Problem on your "yourpage" :

[snip] it\'s easy and free, [snip]

On your life in columbia page (visa's section) :

Typo? : burocrats
Correct Spelling : bureaucrats

Typo? : thouroughly
Correct Spelling : thoroughly

Typo? : kindof
Correct : kind of


That's about it for now. I'm sure others might find things that I might have 
missed.

Hope this helps,
Burhan Khalid


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Wed Dec  5 10:47:25 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:47:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question
In-Reply-To: <044701c17daa$a1dde230$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <000c01c17dac$d18955d0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Ive seen this a few times recently:

WIDTH: 100px;
WIDTH: expression(200);

What does the second WIDTH do?  'Expression' looks like a function call with
a 200 variable; is that another way of spacing 200px?  Why do both?

I did a search at MSDN, Google/Dogpile and a few other CSS references and
was only able to find WIDTH references, not the expression call.
Thanks all.

--Salvatore




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Wed Dec  5 10:47:50 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Wed Dec  5 10:47:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> <OE34jnzi95HfqR77bie0001c9e2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c17dac$0bba7320$d255a8c0@ws.pu.ru>

I tried http://tech.irt.org/articles/js049/index.htm code and example
and have a question. It doesn't allow the addresses like qq at com or qq at ru is
it right?

> From: "Lachlan Cannon" <tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
>
>
> > here is my solution to the problem (it can be spoofed, but
> > it's more difficult than the other one. I've checked it and
> > it worked in IE6, NS6, and Op5, if anyone finds a bug or
> > has an improvement, please tell me)
> >
> > var pattern=/(^[
> >
>
\-_\.a-zA-Z0-9]+)@((([0-9]{1,3}\.){3}([0-9]{1,3})((:[0-9])*))|(([a-zA-Z0-9\-
> ]+)(\.[a-zA-Z]{2,})+(\.[a-zA-Z]{2})?((:[0-9])*)))/;
>
> I think a less restrictive pattern is better (like darren's. The simpler,
> the better). Email address validation is error prone. Check:
>
>
http://aspn.activestate.com//ASPN/Reference/Products/ActivePerl/lib/Pod/perl
> faq9.html#how%20do%20i%20check%20a%20valid%20mail%20address
>
> Specifically, IP addresses can be given as 'number.number' or 'number'
(i.e.
> not just quadruple),
> you forgot the '$' at the end, so sometimes there's only a partial match,
> and, if I got it right, your pattern accepts digits in the host name only
> (when you include the '$', of course).
>
> I use the following code:
>
> function isValidEmail(str) {
>     if (!str.replace) {
>         // broswer does not support REs
>         return (str.indexOf("@") != -1);
>     }
>     else {
>         var re = new
> RegExp("^\\s*[\\w\\-\\.]+\\@[\\w\\-]+(\\.[\\w\\-]+)+\\s*$");
>         return re.test(str);
>     }
> }
>
> (I haven't included a ":port" part.)
>
> It works on old browsers as well (it has "new RegExp", not an RE literal).
>
> The following article has some more code.
>
> http://tech.irt.org/articles/js049/index.htm
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From cache at dowebs.com  Wed Dec  5 11:02:16 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Wed Dec  5 11:02:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <033e01c17d75$f4c48510$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <3C0DE94D.23174.250181@localhost>

> > Did you do the same thing I did, change to using shtml on a site
> > after people had bookmarked index.html?

> I wonder, why would you want to change to index.shtml?

On that server we were not able to SSI enable .html by doing an 
AddHandler or XBitHack due to setting on the AllowOverride, but 
were able to do the redirect. (A drawback to doing official County 
government sites, the choice of hosting server is usually based on 
local politics). But you're right, turning index.html into a server 
parsed file would have been the preferred way to go.

> AddHandler server-parsed .shtml .htm .html
> 
> Or does that only work for PHP?

The AddHandler and XBitHack have nothing to do with PHP or 
anyother add-on language, it's a webserver thing.

keith





From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Dec  5 11:29:27 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Dec  5 11:29:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] understanding nulls
Message-ID: <01c17db2$9ab21fa0$5a4d149a@rudy>

decent article about database nulls --

http://www.searchDatabase.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci784090,00.html


rudy




From evolt at efeingold.com  Wed Dec  5 12:26:23 2001
From: evolt at efeingold.com (josh)
Date: Wed Dec  5 12:26:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP LOGON_USER Variable
Message-ID: <20011205182756.29534.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>

I am developing web pages in ASP on an Intranet using IIS 4.0. (OS is NT 
4.0.) All of the users are browsing via IE 4.0 or better. 

It seems like using the logon_user variable would work in the place of 
requiring individual logons.  However, I can't seem to populate the 
variable.  I have NTCR (NT Challange Response) turned on for the web server. 

What do I need to do from here to the file/folder that I would like to use 
the logon_user variable with? 

TIA -
Josh 



From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 12:42:33 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Wed Dec  5 12:42:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> <OE34jnzi95HfqR77bie0001c9e2@hotmail.com> <003c01c17dac$0bba7320$d255a8c0@ws.pu.ru>
Message-ID: <OE59kyqU7a0xtAEHLB8000140c2@hotmail.com>

From: "Maryanna Nesina" <mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Email Validator


> I tried http://tech.irt.org/articles/js049/index.htm code and example
> and have a question. It doesn't allow the addresses like qq at com or qq at ru
is
> it right?

Yes, the code doesn't allow this. It ends in:

\.[A-Za-z0-9]+$/

The dot ('\.') is not quantified (that is, it is not followed, or not in a
sub-pattern which is followed, by a quantifier (a quantifier is *,+,?,{}),
and thus has to appear as-is in the email address.

I'm not a "net lawyer" so I don't know if "somebody at blah" is valid as an
internet address. I don't think it is "politically" possible.

It is valid, however, when you're in a LAN and you want to send email to
another machine in the same domain. Maybe such addresses are also possible
with today's "RealNames"/"TrueNames"/"BlahBlahNames" services, I don't know.


> > From: "Lachlan Cannon" <tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
> >
> >
> > > here is my solution to the problem (it can be spoofed, but
> > > it's more difficult than the other one. I've checked it and
> > > it worked in IE6, NS6, and Op5, if anyone finds a bug or
> > > has an improvement, please tell me)
> > >




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Dec  5 12:46:24 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Wed Dec  5 12:46:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP LOGON_USER Variable
References: <20011205182756.29534.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
Message-ID: <007d01c17dbd$5acbef50$2860398a@newcos.com>

Josh,

> It seems like using the logon_user variable would work in the place of
> requiring individual logons.  However, I can't seem to populate the
> variable.  I have NTCR (NT Challange Response) turned on for the web
server.

    We use REMOTE_USER here, although it appears to provide the same info as
LOGON_USER. One thing to check: in addition to having NTCR selected, do you
also have Anonymous Access checked? If so, that is likely your problem.
Uncheck the Anonymous Access option and see what happens.

James Aylard




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 13:00:34 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:00:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP LOGON_USER Variable
Message-ID: <F143OImd1UtYj7XGeFa00008cae@hotmail.com>

Hey Josh(?) :

  I don't have an exact answer to your question, but can offer you :

http://www.planet-source-code.com/xq/ASP/txtCodeId.6340/lngWId.4/qx/vb/scripts/ShowCode.htm

(mind the wrap)

This is an excellent NTCR logon/authentication script that alot of my fellow 
coders have used (I'm not that heavy into ASP anymore).

Hope that helps,
Burhan Khalid




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From evolt at efeingold.com  Wed Dec  5 13:00:54 2001
From: evolt at efeingold.com (josh)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:00:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP LOGON_USER Variable
In-Reply-To: <007d01c17dbd$5acbef50$2860398a@newcos.com> 
References: <20011205182756.29534.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
            <007d01c17dbd$5acbef50$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <20011205190227.2292.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>

James - 

Thanks for the reply. 

>     We use REMOTE_USER here, although it appears to provide the same info > as LOGON_USER. 

I've never heard of REMOTE_USER.  Is that a server variable?  How do I use 
it? 

> One thing to check: in addition to having NTCR selected, do you
> also have Anonymous Access checked? If so, that is likely your problem.
> Uncheck the Anonymous Access option and see what happens.

Anonymous access is checked.  I don't want users to have to log on to the 
website.  My understanding is that by unchecking anonymouse access users 
will be forced to authenticate.  Is this accurate? 

Thanks,
Josh 




From evolt at spinhead.com  Wed Dec  5 13:09:58 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:09:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP LOGON_USER Variable
References: <20011205182756.29534.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>            <007d01c17dbd$5acbef50$2860398a@newcos.com> <20011205190227.2292.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
Message-ID: <016501c17dc0$66204bf0$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

If you're looking for LOGON_USER you'll have to force some kind of
authentication, or afaik it won't exist. On a Windows LAN, it'll happen
automagically in the background, no manual login required. (There are lots
of caveats to using the automagic auth, like it isn't carried along if the
user goes outside the domain.)

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "josh" <evolt at efeingold.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:02 AM
Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP LOGON_USER Variable


> James -
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> >     We use REMOTE_USER here, although it appears to provide the same
info > as LOGON_USER.
>
> I've never heard of REMOTE_USER.  Is that a server variable?  How do I use
> it?
>
> > One thing to check: in addition to having NTCR selected, do you
> > also have Anonymous Access checked? If so, that is likely your problem.
> > Uncheck the Anonymous Access option and see what happens.
>
> Anonymous access is checked.  I don't want users to have to log on to the
> website.  My understanding is that by unchecking anonymouse access users
> will be forced to authenticate.  Is this accurate?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 13:13:58 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:13:58 2001
Subject: OT: URL Wrapping (Was: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .))
In-Reply-To: <003d01c17d81$6d536680$f7772241@dmak>
Message-ID: <20011205191530.69437.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>

I wonder if there would be an efficient way for the listserv to detect text patterns in list
emails that start with http:// and wrap them in < and > so they wouldn't break across lines.
Thoughts, anyone?

/rg

<snip>

> See this article:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnaspnet/ht
> ml/Asp11222001.asp
> 
</snip>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Dec  5 13:19:31 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:19:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP LOGON_USER Variable
References: <20011205182756.29534.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>            <007d01c17dbd$5acbef50$2860398a@newcos.com> <20011205190227.2292.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
Message-ID: <008a01c17dc1$fb6e8950$2860398a@newcos.com>

Josh,

> Anonymous access is checked.  I don't want users to have to log on to the
> website.  My understanding is that by unchecking anonymouse access users
> will be forced to authenticate.  Is this accurate?

    One of our network-admin gurus can give you a more thorough answer, but
the short of it is that checking the NT Authentication option does *nothing*
unless you uncheck the Anonymous Access option -- the idea is access by the
lowest-common-denominator, and anonymous access is the lowest common
denominator. If Anonymous Access is checked, users are connected under the
IUSR account, so you can't determine who they are.
    In my experience, having only NT Authentication checked *may* require an
initial login, depending on how you have the security set up. I believe that
if the user is connecting from within the same domain and has been granted
access to the resource, the authentication is transparent; otherwise if the
user is connecting from another domain, the user will be prompted initially
for username, password, and domain (iirc), but just once (I'm not sure when
the need to log in is reestablished; in my experience it appears to be when
the user logs off the NT account, and not when an IIS session expires, since
I don't typically use sessions). I probably don't have these details exactly
right, but it's worked like this for me.
    Again, I'm sure one of our network-admin gurus can sand off the rough
edges of my comments and can provide a more-detailed explanation...

James Aylard




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Dec  5 13:24:42 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:24:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question
References: <000c01c17dac$d18955d0$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <009301c17dc2$b4914030$2860398a@newcos.com>

Salvatore,

> WIDTH: 100px;
> WIDTH: expression(200);
>
> What does the second WIDTH do?  'Expression' looks like a function call
with
> a 200 variable; is that another way of spacing 200px?  Why do both?

    The "expression" example is not valid CSS 1 or CSS 2, and I don't think
this kind of construction is under consideration for any of the CSS 3
modules. It clearly appears to be some type of function call, and is most
likely a faulty attempt to execute scripting within a style sheet block.
    Do you have a URL for any site that does this? I would be interested in
taking a closer look to see what they might be up to.

James Aylard




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Dec  5 13:26:25 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:26:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG or VML
References: <E1C5DC6C1BE0D111A76C00A024500604012925ED@exchange.ncl.kmsoftware.com> <0dee01c17d7d$fef07500$62fe530a@chrisglaptop>
Message-ID: <04c501c17dc2$7b055900$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Garrett" <chris at chrisg.com>

> I have been reading about SVG and VML. What are your thoughts on these two
> standards? From my initial surfing it seems SVG is more of an
> all-encompassing standard with more industry backing but VML has more
> support from live sites?

Hi,
you could say that, yes - but it looks to me like VML is a dying technology.
It is pretty basic in it's possibilities, and there hasn't really been much
work done on it in the last few years.
SVG is XML-based, and quite a few major companies are starting to support
the standard, and build applications using it.
The only real advantage VML has that I'm aware of, is that it's built into
IE. It's also used in MS Office applications quite a bit I think.
As Adobe's SVG plugin ships with Acrobat Viewer (as well as with their other
software), anyone who can view PDFs can view SVG.

Cheers,
Richard.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  5 13:30:01 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:30:01 2001
Subject: OT: URL Wrapping (Was: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .))
In-Reply-To: <20011205191530.69437.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <003d01c17d81$6d536680$f7772241@dmak>
Message-ID: <200112051930.fB5JU0Yf024894@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Robert Goodyear <rob_goodyear at yahoo.com>
>
> I wonder if there would be an efficient way for the listserv to detect
> text patterns in list emails that start with http:// and wrap them in
> < and > so they wouldn't break across lines. Thoughts, anyone?

um, using <> doesn't keep URLs for breaking from me (Pegasus 
mail)... this is true for many other mail clients...

it's up to your mail client to recognize multi-line URLs... people 
sending mail who have mail clients that allow a certain kind of 
control can experiment with not wrapping the text for that message 
at a set character width...




From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Dec  5 13:33:31 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:33:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP LOGON_USER Variable
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B8251010E09@apollo.ti3.com>

> if the user is connecting from within the same domain and has 
> been granted
> access to the resource, the authentication is transparent; 
> otherwise if the
> user is connecting from another domain, the user will be 
> prompted initially
> for username, password, and domain (iirc), but just once (I'm 


yeah, this is pretty much the case in an intranet environment (IE will
do the authentication under the covers automagically); the LOGON_USER is
an environment variable that will get populated as a result of this
authentication. You can't populate it explicitly. (IE and its 'zones'
--Netscape will throw up the login popup regardless. Oh, and it can't do
NTCR)

You can also leave anonymous access on, but on the folder/files in the
file system tweak the permissions such that Guest/IUSR_<machinename>
can't get to them (remove "Everyone" and add in your domain groups as
needed).

I haven't looked at the link that was sent earlier, maybe there's
something in there that you can lean on.

hth
sgd



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Wed Dec  5 13:34:26 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:34:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
In-Reply-To: <OE21ie2I4upgNECPkGS00019daf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIEEOMCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> > allow SSI-parsing in html files can't you?:
> > Like this:
> >
> > AddHandler server-parsed .shtml .htm .html
> >
>
> It's possible, but static files ('.html') are more efficient. You
> don't want
> the server to parse and process every '.html' file, and there's also the
> caching issue: emitting "Last-modified".


Let's say I added  a .htaccess file to a directory with this line:

AddType application/x-httpd-php .html

Now let's say I don't want this to affect subdirectories...how do I make
that happen?

BH




From cspruck at mindspring.com  Wed Dec  5 13:41:57 2001
From: cspruck at mindspring.com (Chris Spruck)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:41:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <OE59kyqU7a0xtAEHLB8000140c2@hotmail.com>
References: <20011205125738.49887.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com>
 <OE34jnzi95HfqR77bie0001c9e2@hotmail.com>
 <003c01c17dac$0bba7320$d255a8c0@ws.pu.ru>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20011205142800.020d1dc0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

At 08:41 PM 12/5/01 +0200, Matthew Blanchard wrote:
>>From: "Maryanna Nesina" <mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru>
>>Subject: Re: [thelist] Email Validator
>>
>>It doesn't allow the addresses like qq at com or qq at ru
>>is it right?
>
>Yes, the code doesn't allow this. It ends in:
>
>\.[A-Za-z0-9]+$/
>
>The dot ('\.') is not quantified (that is, it is not followed, or not in a
>sub-pattern which is followed, by a quantifier (a quantifier is *,+,?,{}),
>and thus has to appear as-is in the email address.

In the above expression, you could make the dot optional by following it 
with a question mark like this:

\.?[A-Za-z0-9]+$/

The question mark there means ONLY a single dot is allowed, but the dot is 
optional. Change the ? to an asterisk (\.*[A-Za-z0-9]+$) and it becomes 
"ANY number of dots are allowed, but they are optional". Thus the ? will 
prevent the validation from passing whatever at whatever..com.

Chris




From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Wed Dec  5 13:52:40 2001
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:52:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP move_uploaded_file() and Safe Mode
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIKEONCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

I have a few functions that use move_uploaded_file() and the webserver is
running PHP in safe Mode, so my uploaded file can only land in the directory
the script is located in. This doesn't really work for me.

Short of having to put a script containing the move_uploaded_file() function
in the preferred destination directory and finding a way to run that script
separately from the rest of my functions, anyone know of w ay to get around
this particular safe_mode issue? What would be the risks if I could get
around it?

BH




From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Wed Dec  5 13:57:07 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Wed Dec  5 13:57:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205115053.02666c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>

hey folks,

i've run across a silly problem with IE 3. does anyone know if IE3/pc does 
or doesn't support included js files?

In a simple html page, i link in a js file. problem is, when i call a 
function defined in the included file, i get "function not defined" in IE 
3. Here's the general structure.

=====JS FILE=====
function hello()
         {
         alert('hello');
         }
===============

=====HTML FILE====
<html>
         <head>
                 <script src="jsfile.js"></script>
         </head>
         <body>
                 <script>
                 hello();
                 </script>
         </body>
</html>
======HTML FILE=====

so the question is, is this a timing issues, a code issue, or a IE3/pc bug? 
Does IE3/pc not support calling functions defined in included files?

thanks,
nate

nate koechley






From talleman at RealMetros.com  Wed Dec  5 14:13:13 2001
From: talleman at RealMetros.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Wed Dec  5 14:13:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS?:  Target = opener?
Message-ID: <748F417236D57847829976483DEBC0C1025C55@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Anybody know a way to specify, as the target of a form, the opener of
the window that contains the form?

I tried this:

<!--
	function frmHandler(frm)
		{
		var MW = window.opener.name;
		frm.target = MW;
		frm.submit();
		return true;
		}
// -->

and when I clicked the <button> that calls this function, the form did
submit, so I know the function was called and the form-reference was
passed.  But the next page opened in the same window, not in the
window's opener.

I'll keep playing with it, but anybody spots my undoubtedly glaring
error and points it out, I'd sure appreesh!

Tab



From matt at sweetillusions.org  Wed Dec  5 14:15:37 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Wed Dec  5 14:15:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205115053.02666c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
Message-ID: <014401c17dc9$cc1c9bd0$6900000a@tendocom.org>

nate -

dug this out -- ie3 chokes on src includes. boh!


summary:

"If you are willing to exclude users with IE3, you can use the Src attribute
and store your scripts in external files."
more:If you wish to make pages which are widely compatible and will work
with the next generation of browsers without breaking, it is wise to use the
Type AND Language attributes, while avoiding the Src, For and Event
attributes.  You should also provide alternate content.  For example:<SCRIPT
TYPE="text/javascript" LANGUAGE="JavaScript"><!--script
data//--></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>alternate data</NOSCRIPT>This will work with
browsers which support the Type attribute, which will then ignore the
Language attribute.  Also, it will work with browsers which support the more
common Language attribute, which will ignore the Type attribute.  If they
don't support either, they most probably don't support JavaScript.  If you
are willing to exclude users with IE3, you can use the Src attribute and
store your scripts in external files.  This can save you work, as you don't
have to put it in each document, and allows you to keep the user from seeing
the script if they open the HTML source.   However, it excludes users with
IE3, which could usually use JavaScript.

one more sf rainy day,
m

----- Original Message -----
From: "nate koechley" <nate at vicksburgcollective.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3


: hey folks,
:
: i've run across a silly problem with IE 3. does anyone know if IE3/pc does
: or doesn't support included js files?
:
: In a simple html page, i link in a js file. problem is, when i call a
: function defined in the included file, i get "function not defined" in IE
: 3. Here's the general structure.
:
: =====JS FILE=====
: function hello()
:          {
:          alert('hello');
:          }
: ===============
:
: =====HTML FILE====
: <html>
:          <head>
:                  <script src="jsfile.js"></script>
:          </head>
:          <body>
:                  <script>
:                  hello();
:                  </script>
:          </body>
: </html>
: ======HTML FILE=====
:
: so the question is, is this a timing issues, a code issue, or a IE3/pc
bug?
: Does IE3/pc not support calling functions defined in included files?
:
: thanks,
: nate
:
: nate koechley
:
:
:
:
: ---------------------------------------
: For unsubscribe and other options, including
: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
:




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 14:41:58 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Dec  5 14:41:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205115053.02666c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHEEBBFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

nate,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: nate koechley
>
> i've run across a silly problem with IE 3. does anyone
> know if IE3/pc does or doesn't support included js
> files?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

what's the minor version number?  anything older than 3.02/32bit doesn't
support external javascript files.  none of the 16bit versions support them
as far as i remember.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> In a simple html page, i link in a js file. problem is,
> when i call a function defined in the included file, i
> get "function not defined" in IE
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yup, cause ie3 isn't loading the external file.  so, to it, the function is
undefined.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> so the question is, is this a timing issues, a code
> issue, or a IE3/pc bug?  Does IE3/pc not support calling
> functions defined in included files?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

none of the above.  it's a support issue.  ie3 simply doesn't support
external javascript files.  fwiw, neither does nn2.0.  that's because
external files were introduced in js1.1.

don't worry, there's a solution and an article detailing it:

http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/9054/

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Dec  5 14:42:06 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Wed Dec  5 14:42:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205115053.02666c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c17dcd$850612e0$2860398a@newcos.com>

Nate,

> i've run across a silly problem with IE 3. does anyone know if IE3/pc does
> or doesn't support included js files?

    Essentially, it does not. Microsoft documentation states that support
for the src attribute of the script element was implemented in IE 3.022 [1],
a very late version of IE 3.

James Aylard

1.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/src_1.a
sp




From secarica at fx.ro  Wed Dec  5 14:47:53 2001
From: secarica at fx.ro (Cristian Secara)
Date: Wed Dec  5 14:47:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] js include error in IE 3
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205115053.02666c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com> <014401c17dc9$cc1c9bd0$6900000a@tendocom.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c17dce$ef4b29a0$360007c3@gvs>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:17:00 -0800, matt newell wrote:

>[...] store your scripts in external files. This [...] allows you to keep
>the user from seeing the script if they open the HTML source.

Anyone with IE5+ can easily see the (script.js) file. Just save the page,
specifying "Web page, complete" at the time of saving. The new created
folder that includes all images, also includes the .js and .css files.

Best wishes,
    Cristi





From web at master.gen.in.us  Wed Dec  5 15:53:03 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Wed Dec  5 15:53:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <OE59kyqU7a0xtAEHLB8000140c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C0E51FF.27275.235A33@localhost>

On 5 Dec 2001, at 20:41, Matthew Blanchard posted a message which said:

> I'm not a "net lawyer" so I don't know if "somebody at blah" is valid as an
> internet address. I don't think it is "politically" possible.

You'd think so, but no. If you have a machine is named "blah" in your 
hosts file, and you have a username of "somebody" on the machine, 
the address works.  The webserver at my feet sends me emails 
several times a week as "root at localhost"

But I admit the first time I was taken aback the first time I realized 
that not only was there a valid URL http://www.com but there was an 
apparently thriving website on that machine.

deke


--------
We are the parents our people warned us about....




From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info  Wed Dec  5 16:11:14 2001
From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson)
Date: Wed Dec  5 16:11:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <F123Ae2hXSDx1kLwxTQ0000db5c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <015c01c17dd9$f92f81e0$680110ac@shauna>

As somebody with a .info domain, I'd like to mention that this validation
won't let me enter my e-mail address.

I've had a few sites tell me that my e-mail address isn't valid.  I usually
just make it username at shaunanderson.inf. I assume that some don't like it
because it's a 4 letter TLD, and others because it isn't in their list of
domains like the code below (pretty rare).

Another problem with the code below would be people using country TLDs.
It's a rather long list and you'd have to keep on top of it an make changes
as necessary. (pita)

My personal opinion is that you should just make sure that there is an @
sign, and a period after, with 2+ characters after the last "."  If somebody
doesn't want to give you a "real" e-mail address, they just need to enter
asdf at asdf.com. It'll make it by any sort of validation you can through at
it. The only way you're going to get a real address from some people is to
tell them that you're going to give them what they want through e-mail.
(username/password usually)

Shaun

> I wrote a email validation function (PHP) a long time ago. Don't know how
> upto date it is, but you might find it interesting :
>
> function checkEmail($address)
>     {
>     if(ereg( "^[^@
> ]+@([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+\.)+([a-zA-Z0-9\-]{2}|net|com|gov|mil|org|edu|int)$",$ad
dress)
> )
>     return true;
>     else
>     return false;
>     }
>





From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Wed Dec  5 16:13:30 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Wed Dec  5 16:13:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <v02140b24b83448bb3a8b@[10.112.1.122]>

At 2:46 AM 12/5/1, Joergen Ramskov wrote:
> What I'm interested in is creating something that works like
> http://www.thebrain.com/

You're talking about the Java-based navigation system, right? If so, then
on a quick glance I like it too... it's essentially a set of hierarchical
submenus which reposition themselves during use, yes...?

The hierarchical submenus are straightforward enough... searching on "tree"
at http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/flash pulls up a couple of
ready-to-roll implementations which use either hardwired menus or XML-fed
menus.

For repositioning each node to the center as it's chosen that's rarer...
I've seen similar work in the past, but when I search Google with terms
like "'Macromedia Flash' hierarchical navigation menu" I get too many hits
to quickly weed through. The key technique is to put textfields into
individual clips which can then be repositioned programmatically. It's
easier to make a hardwired menu that one which relies on dynamic data, but
both tasks are regularly accomplished.

(For SVG, much depends on your audience... very few people have any SVG
viewing capability at all, much less the latest Adobe feature set. If you
can control the viewing environment then this may be an option, otherwise
it's hard to see. SVG is a great vector-description format, but that's
distinct from being a practical viewing format.)

Anything in particular you're seeking...?

jd









John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
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available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From mali_subscribe at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 16:40:29 2001
From: mali_subscribe at yahoo.com (Mustpha Ali)
Date: Wed Dec  5 16:40:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Certifications??
In-Reply-To: <002b01c17d44$8b9f3700$6501a8c0@cr10746a>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAWG+aF/KUEaJy8k/dNh6d8KNAAAQAAAAyFxm8tibm0mfUebXHtV8JwEAAAAA@yahoo.com>

Hello all,

In view of the certifications issue, one of the threads mentioned Brain
Bench certification.  Does anyone know how widely recognized the
certification is and will employers view that as an asset to prospective
employees as does the MCSE, CCNA, etc???

Thanks.
Mustapha


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From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Wed Dec  5 16:45:50 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Wed Dec  5 16:45:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <F123Ae2hXSDx1kLwxTQ0000db5c@hotmail.com> <015c01c17dd9$f92f81e0$680110ac@shauna>
Message-ID: <018801c17dd6$167abb60$0100007f@mar>

I agree with Shaun :)
my own variation for that perpouse sometimes ago was jast:


 if((err==0) && (((e.name=="emale") &&( (e.value.indexOf("\@") < 1) ||
((e.value.length)  (= (e.value.indexOf("\@")+ 1) ))))) err=1;
 // if e-male field and (&&) ( it doesn't contain @ or anuthing before @ or
(||) nothing goes after @)
    if (err == 1) break;
 }
   if (err==0) {
     return true;
   }

whrer var f - the Form name and  for (var i = 0; i < f.length; i++) {
                                                                 var e =
f.elements[i];
...

I think that the goal of JavaScript in this case is to help user if he
ocasionally do some mistakes, not to prevent him from submiting invalid
address.
If it's necessory we can go on checking on the server side (using dns ets.
ets.)
But the best way is to ask for e-mail confirming. (Thou I do undestend that
the Regex task itself was rather splended :)))

> As somebody with a .info domain, I'd like to mention that this validation
> won't let me enter my e-mail address.
>
> I've had a few sites tell me that my e-mail address isn't valid.  I
usually
> just make it username at shaunanderson.inf. I assume that some don't like it
> because it's a 4 letter TLD, and others because it isn't in their list of
> domains like the code below (pretty rare).
>
> Another problem with the code below would be people using country TLDs.
> It's a rather long list and you'd have to keep on top of it an make
changes
> as necessary. (pita)
>
> My personal opinion is that you should just make sure that there is an @
> sign, and a period after, with 2+ characters after the last "."  If
somebody
> doesn't want to give you a "real" e-mail address, they just need to enter
> asdf at asdf.com. It'll make it by any sort of validation you can through at
> it. The only way you're going to get a real address from some people is to
> tell them that you're going to give them what they want through e-mail.
> (username/password usually)
>
> Shaun
>
> > I wrote a email validation function (PHP) a long time ago. Don't know
how
> > upto date it is, but you might find it interesting :
> >
> > function checkEmail($address)
> >     {
> >     if(ereg( "^[^@
>
> ]+@([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+\.)+([a-zA-Z0-9\-]{2}|net|com|gov|mil|org|edu|int)$",$ad
> dress)
> > )
> >     return true;
> >     else
> >     return false;
> >     }
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From johnolival at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 17:32:30 2001
From: johnolival at yahoo.co.uk (John Olival)
Date: Wed Dec  5 17:32:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS?:  Target = opener?
References: <748F417236D57847829976483DEBC0C1025C55@typhoon.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <054301c17de5$84fadb60$8e7478d5@london.local>

> Anybody know a way to specify, as the target of a form, the opener of
> the window that contains the form?
>
> I tried this:
>
> <!--
> function frmHandler(frm)
> {
> var MW = window.opener.name;
> frm.target = MW;
> frm.submit();
> return true;
> }
> // -->

Tab, you need to give the window.opener a name before you can refer to it by
name so when you run your script to open the window, do this:

function openWindow()
{
window.name='windowOpener';
window.open('form.html','newWindow');
}

And then the script in the newWindow as you have it above will work.

HTH

JohnO


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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From bill at ilovett.com  Wed Dec  5 18:21:36 2001
From: bill at ilovett.com (Bill Lovett)
Date: Wed Dec  5 18:21:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for alternatives to My Yahoo
Message-ID: <20011205192155.A2690@rcn.com>

I'm toying with the idea of implementing (or building) a personal
portal on my site where I can keep relatively private info (addresses,
calendar and such) online but away from anyone's eyes but mine. I
really like what My Yahoo offers with all their customizable content
modules but am itching for something I can customize and expand 
the way I want. 

Has anyone ever implemented something like this for themselves? A bit
of a portal, a bit of a content manager, a bit of a web-based PIM. So
far the only thing I've found on freshmeat is something called
MyPhPim:

http://freshmeat.net/projects/myphpim/


-bill



From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 19:59:54 2001
From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Wed Dec  5 19:59:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <20011205191239.F13E351F4E@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011206020126.97763.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com>

> 
> I use the following code:
> 
> function isValidEmail(str) {
>     if (!str.replace) {
>         // broswer does not support REs
>         return (str.indexOf("@") != -1);
>     }
>     else {
>         var re = new
>
RegExp("^\\s*[\\w\\-\\.]+\\@[\\w\\-]+(\\.[\\w\\-]+)+\\s*$");
>         return re.test(str);
>     }
> }
> 
> (I haven't included a ":port" part.)

Thanks for the refinements. I guess mine turned out so long
because of the way I thought about it (break it up into
smaller pieces, person name @ then either domain. whatever
or ip address), I'll be fixing mine up straight away.
Thanks again

Lachlan Cannon
{Luminosity}

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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From ftarzwell at fayec.com  Wed Dec  5 20:01:35 2001
From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC))
Date: Wed Dec  5 20:01:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?
Message-ID: <3C0ED1B2.CAB228CD@fayec.com>

Hi,

After asking some questions for a friend some time ago I found out that
most developers recognize e-commerce sites or modules as subject to
copyright and therefore they are not products that the client, who paid
for them, can really keep or do whatever he wants to do with them.
Now I am wondering...if you are an employee of a company who wants to
put an e-commerce site online will your programming be considered yours
or the company's?
In which cases the client can keep whatever you did (graphic design,
programming, etc) as his own and is there any specific circunstances
where the work performed by an employee is rightfully the client's or
the company's?

Thanks in advance for any answers to my many questions,

-- 
FayeC



From joshua at alphashop.net  Wed Dec  5 20:07:29 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Dec  5 20:07:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?
References: <3C0ED1B2.CAB228CD@fayec.com>
Message-ID: <01b001c17dfc$5639be60$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

FayeC,

There are usually lots and lots of permutations of this theme.  Generally,
the contract itself will outline who owns what in a business relationship.
Most employee/employer contracts I've seen eventually say that anything the
employee produces belongs to the company or whoever the company gives it to.
The business/client contract can be different for every deal and is
completely up to whatever arrangements are made.  The savvier(is that a
word??) business person usually ends up owning the rights to the product,
unless it does not make sense for one person or the other to own it.

Does this answer your question?

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)" <ftarzwell at fayec.com>
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?


: Hi,

<snip>

: Now I am wondering...if you are an employee of a company who wants to
: put an e-commerce site online will your programming be considered yours
: or the company's?
: In which cases the client can keep whatever you did (graphic design,
: programming, etc) as his own and is there any specific circunstances
: where the work performed by an employee is rightfully the client's or
: the company's?
:
: Thanks in advance for any answers to my many questions,
:
: --
: FayeC




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  5 20:08:42 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Dec  5 20:08:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?
In-Reply-To: <3C0ED1B2.CAB228CD@fayec.com>
Message-ID: <3C0E8CEB.1310.47592512@localhost>

> From: "Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)" <ftarzwell at fayec.com>
> 
> After asking some questions for a friend some time ago I found out
> that most developers recognize e-commerce sites or modules as subject
> to copyright and therefore they are not products that the client, who
> paid for them, can really keep or do whatever he wants to do with
> them. Now I am wondering...if you are an employee of a company who
> wants to put an e-commerce site online will your programming be
> considered yours or the company's? In which cases the client can keep
> whatever you did (graphic design, programming, etc) as his own and is
> there any specific circunstances where the work performed by an
> employee is rightfully the client's or the company's?

disclaimer: IANAL

if you are an employee, your employer owns the work you do... all 
of it...the employee keeps squat... 

if you are a vendor, the client keeps what they already own (copy, 
logos, imagery, etc.), and they have the rights to use the software 
you develop (assuming you develop any)... i do not consider HTML 
or JS to be software, the client gets that... all of this, of course, is 
predicated on an agreement that says so -- you could have an 
agreement that says exactly the opposite if eveyone's nuts...

more likely than not, the e-commerce piece will be licensed to the 
client, preventing them from reselling it (and cutting into your 
business with your own product)...

(others will come along with more detailed, legal precedents, i hope)

ok, now why do you ask?




From damian_mac at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 21:10:55 2001
From: damian_mac at hotmail.com (Damian Maclennan)
Date: Wed Dec  5 21:10:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .)
Message-ID: <F273bUwEt1cClOSk7PQ00013e16@hotmail.com>

>How do you automatically delete an entry from a database after a >certain
>period of time?


You can easily set up jobs on your server to clean out old entries.


>Is this really beneficial since server processing is
>increased and time wasted by having to go back to the database for every
>page?

It depends on what resources you have. Most of the stuff I do, we have a 
really big, fast DB server. So I put a lot of stuff there, and leave the web 
servers to do light work.

I have seen other ways of doing it, this just works for my setup.

Damian

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From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 21:38:39 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Dec  5 21:38:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?
In-Reply-To: <3C0E8CEB.1310.47592512@localhost>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHCECGFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

aardvark,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: aardvark
>
> if you are an employee, your employer owns the work you
> do... all of it...the employee keeps squat...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

right-o.  it's called "work for hire".

http://www.ivanhoffman.com/work.html

there are cases where the employee can keep the copyright for themselves,
but it must be explicitly stated in a written and signed contract.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> [...] and they have the rights to use the software you
> develop (assuming you develop any)... i do not consider
> HTML or JS to be software, the client gets that... [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i agree that html is not software.  however, there are instances where i
think javascript development could be considered software.  i would say that
would depend on the amount of time spent developing it and how it was used.
for example, javascript for rollovers, form validation, dhtml menus, etc.
would not be considered software.  however, widgets developed in javascript
(most likely used in administrative tools) could be called software.  these
would be things like calendar widgets for increasing usability,
color-picking widget to remove the dependency of understanding hex/rbg
values for the client, rich-text editors to remove the dependency of
knowledge of html for the client, dhtml application that allows creation and
storage of hotspots on an image map, etc.  it would also depend on how
necessary the javascript used was to the functionality of the tool.  for
example, if removing the javascript would render the tool completely useless
(really only acceptable in administrative tools) then i'd say that in that
case it's part of the software.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 22:10:16 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 22:10:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
Message-ID: <F87g3AmsfGdMNFmWAFs00006364@hotmail.com>

A trip to regexlib.com revealed this little gem :

^([a-zA-Z0-9_\-\.]+)@((\[[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.)|(([a-zA-Z0-9\-]+\.)+))([a-zA-Z]{2,4}|[0-9]{1,3})(\]?)$

(mind the line wrap).

Here is the link to the above expression :

http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26

Regards,
Burhan Khalid



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From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 22:16:20 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 22:16:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] F2S Announcement
Message-ID: <F597miR9Odutox7nyeK0000e230@hotmail.com>

Hey there Evolters :

  Just got an email from my favorite host (f2s). They are announcing that 
sadly, they will be cutting off their free service by Feb. 28th 2002. While 
doing preliminary research on the internet, www.phpwebhosting.com sounds 
like something that I would want. Any other webhosts that you would like to 
recommend?
The following four things I must have, no budging about it :

Perl
PHP (GD Optional)
mySQL
FTP Access

Anything other than that is gravy. The price has to be resonable (this is 
for a college club's website).

Any suggestions? Ideas? Any concerns with phpwebhosting?
Let me know please,
Regards,
Burhan Khalid



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From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec  5 22:38:51 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec  5 22:38:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] F2S Announcement
References: <F597miR9Odutox7nyeK0000e230@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C0EF7A9.3080008@members.evolt.org>

Hey Burhan -

For the most part, I'm cool with people that contribute to evolt on a 
somewhat regular basis hosting personal sites on members.evolt.org.. I 
think you have an account there already. It does have perl, php, mysql, 
and ftp plus a lot of other cool stuff to play around with too..

Too bad about f2s getting burried under their own weight..

if you have any questions, lemme know :)

.djc.

Burhan Khalid wrote:

> Hey there Evolters :
> 
>  Just got an email from my favorite host (f2s). They are announcing that 
> sadly, they will be cutting off their free service by Feb. 28th 2002. 
> While doing preliminary research on the internet, www.phpwebhosting.com 
> sounds like something that I would want. Any other webhosts that you 
> would like to recommend?
> The following four things I must have, no budging about it :
> 
> Perl
> PHP (GD Optional)
> mySQL
> FTP Access
> 
> Anything other than that is gravy. The price has to be resonable (this 
> is for a college club's website).





From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:30:20 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:30:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org?
Message-ID: <F138c7jNyW40tT8ugh30000fdaf@hotmail.com>

Hey Daniel (and all) :

  I thought I might share with you what I discovered while testing out a 
script that I thought was intersting. The script provides a shell interface 
via the web (its PHP based). Using it, I was able to get root access to leo! 
I was browsing around the entire tree, and could have (if I was some evil 
person) delted everyone's meo accounts! If you (Daniel), want access to this 
script, email me off list and I will send you the URL and password to login.

  Lets plug this hole and make evolt and (in theory) the net a safer place.

Regards,
Burhan Khalid



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From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Dec  5 23:33:24 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:33:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org?
In-Reply-To: <F138c7jNyW40tT8ugh30000fdaf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205213304.01bb6b38@baratta.com>

Are you sure you are not looking at the site as user "nobody". I've written 
scripts that run pkill and ps and capture the output for a web page. The 
caveat is that they run as the web server user which is usually nobody.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:35:52 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:35:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] F2S Announcement
Message-ID: <F28grMbzjqruzTvztPi00000e5e@hotmail.com>

Thanks Daniel!

  I had come up with the idea that the computer club get together and build 
a machine from scratch that would serve as our webserver, and then get the 
university to stick it on their backbone. I thought that maybe this would 
get some activity/excitement happening in the computer club (I'm the pres.). 
If that doesn't pan out (or takes too long, which I suspect it will, given 
the gargantuan amount of red tape at my uni), I might have to take you up on 
that offer. You can view the current site here :

http://www.swosucomputerclub.f2s.com

(my uni's homepage is : http://www.swosu.edu)

  I am running the current site under phpnuke. I just didn't have enough 
time to code a weblog/storytell system using PHP. However, I plan to update 
the site and perhaps (yikes!) take a stab at CF. Just the install process on 
HomeSite gave me enough headaches.

  Thanks for the support. I'll pass it on to my sponsor as an option.

  On a separate note, can you tell me what she-bang line to use in my perl 
scripts? I tried running a perl script but with no luck.


Regards,
Burhan Khalid


Hey Burhan -

For the most part, I'm cool with people that contribute to evolt on a
somewhat regular basis hosting personal sites on members.evolt.org.. I
think you have an account there already. It does have perl, php, mysql,
and ftp plus a lot of other cool stuff to play around with too..

Too bad about f2s getting burried under their own weight..

if you have any questions, lemme know :)

.djc.

Burhan Khalid wrote:

>Hey there Evolters :
>
>  Just got an email from my favorite host (f2s). They are announcing that
>sadly, they will be cutting off their free service by Feb. 28th 2002.
>While doing preliminary research on the internet, www.phpwebhosting.com
>sounds like something that I would want. Any other webhosts that you
>would like to recommend?
>The following four things I must have, no budging about it :
>
>Perl
>PHP (GD Optional)
>mySQL
>FTP Access
>
>Anything other than that is gravy. The price has to be resonable (this
>is for a college club's website).



---------------------------------------
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From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:40:15 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:40:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org?
Message-ID: <F127QivCjdwjOvidzKU0001812d@hotmail.com>

Have to check -- but it scares me either way.
Burhan Khalid
----Original Message Follows----
From: Anthony Baratta <Anthony at Baratta.com>
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org?
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:34:58 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From burhankh at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:50:58 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:50:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org? (Take II) My Apologies
Message-ID: <F132g0wBrY3VaI0oZIi000048a9@hotmail.com>

Security Hole Scare (Take II - My Apologies)

Upon a recheck (and a calming walk to the fridge) -- looking upon the same 
situation, I find that thankfully I am "nobody" -- hence have piddly rights, 
but on the script that I was using (MyShell), it has provisions to ban 
certain commands from being used (say shutdown, kill, xterm, etc.). I don't 
imagine it would be too hard for someone with a little more knowledge than I 
to figure out how to get around this limitation. I mean, geez, just the 
thought of having remote access to the shell from a web browser scares me. 
SSH I can live with. Heck, I used telnet to check my email, but it seems too 
easy that someone with just enough knowledge can write a script to do such 
things.

The MyShell script itself it but a page long. Thanks a bunch Anthony for the 
heads up. I probably would have freaked more if I hadn't realized my lapse 
in judgement.

Well, that's was lack of sleep will do to you.
I promise not to worry you guys for the next recommended 9 hours (upon which 
time I will be snoozing).

Regards, and good night,
Burhan Khalid

PS> My apologies again. Dare to Evolt!
Note to self > Get more sleep.

Are you sure you are not looking at the site as user "nobody". [ snip ]

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Dec  5 23:51:02 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Dec  5 23:51:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org?
In-Reply-To: <F127QivCjdwjOvidzKU0001812d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205214617.03034d10@baratta.com>

At 09:41 PM 12/5/2001, you wrote:
>Have to check -- but it scares me either way.

This is a fact for all users that have local access. They can do "weird" 
things and leave holes for others to get into sites with. Heck even 
established web scripts have well known holes that can cause a server to be 
exploited in different ways.

It's a totally different animal when someone exploits a hole in a service 
and "roots" the machine. They are attacking a machine from the outside, 
versus a user who already has telnet/ssh access.

Allowing users on your box is the most dangerous thing you can do, next to 
connecting your box to a network.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Dec  6 00:27:49 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Dec  6 00:27:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
In-Reply-To: <20011205191210.45181C021@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206032552.0888ec18@203.197.12.4>

At 12:42 AM 12/6/2001, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org typed these words:
>While we're discussing blatant self-promotion, I figure I should direct
>everybody to the right column of my .sig, ya know?

Hmmm... what's with the unbelievably strict "all rights belong to us" 
policy, Ben? For a non-paying site, that's certainly a bit unusual. For 
example, at evolt, writers own all rights to their articles and evolt only 
asks for non-exclusive rights to publish the article. And we get a fair bit 
of traffic too.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Thu Dec  6 00:37:57 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Thu Dec  6 00:37:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] site check
References: <000001c179d9$68e53340$1e070c50@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <019801c17dda$8d90bca0$0100007f@mar>

Hi Matt,
Everything is OK but NN3.1 that cut all the right  rectangulars off

( I checked by: NN3.1 Gold, NN4.06, NN6.01 under Win98)
I send you the screenshots via e-mail
Regards,
Maryanna Nesina
> Hi Evolters,
>
>
> I tried to make my site (http://www.skyminds.net/) as "cross-browsers
> compliant" as possible but I cannot test it with all browsers. It is fine
> with IE 5/6 and Opera 5 under win98, but some people told me that Netscape
> screws it up totally.
>
> Could some of you check my site please ?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> -----
> Matt Biscay
> http://www.skyminds.net/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From persist1 at io.com  Thu Dec  6 00:56:26 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Thu Dec  6 00:56:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Development Sites
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206032552.0888ec18@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112060045050.32318-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Madhu Menon wrote:

> Hmmm... what's with the unbelievably strict "all rights belong to us"
> policy, Ben? For a non-paying site, that's certainly a bit unusual. For
> example, at evolt, writers own all rights to their articles and evolt only
> asks for non-exclusive rights to publish the article. And we get a fair bit
> of traffic too.

Nick and I have gone rounds about this, and to put it bluntly, we
disagree.

His explanation is that he wants to keep the traffic coming in; I tell him
that maaaaaybe he's getting carried away with that concern, and the
traffic will take care of itself as long as we do our jobs properly.

He points out that some people aren't terribly scrupulous about giving
credit when they re-publish an article; I respond by pointing out that
"hey, this is the Web."

Nick tells me that in his experience, the harsh language is the best tool
he's got for getting people to play nice.  Even though you are not the
first person to point out to me that this policy is discouraging; I've
have a few people suggest that they won't write for the site until Nick
changes the rights language, at the very least to something more like what
Zeldman's got for A List Apart.

The bottom line:  when the day winds down and the lights go out,
digital-web.com is Nick's site, the operating costs of which get paid out
of his (entirely ordinary) pocket.  He can do what he wants - even if many
would consider some of his decisions to be of less-than-optimal quality.

Nick is in fact a tremendously kind and generous person, but like all of
us, he's got his quirks.  One of them is reflected in the content rights
language.

...Which reminds me, I need to attack those guidelines again, if for no
other reason than to fix the typos.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From mle at cargo9.com  Thu Dec  6 01:01:56 2001
From: mle at cargo9.com (mle)
Date: Thu Dec  6 01:01:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re:<CFINCLUDE> INSIDE <CFQUERY OUTPUT>
References: <20011205135509.DFBC551F50@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C0F181F.E8335CD5@cargo9.com>

Josh,

Your suggestion...
 
> A trick to find out exactly what file CF was looking for during an include... 
> <cftry>
>   <cfinclude template="[dynamic filename]">
>   <cfcatch type="Any">
>     <cfoutput>Missing File Name: #cfcatch.MissingFileName</cfoutput>
>   </cfcatch>
> </cftry>

... works great. 

Many thanks.

mle



From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Thu Dec  6 01:03:46 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Thu Dec  6 01:03:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <F87g3AmsfGdMNFmWAFs00006364@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <006c01c17e19$c7dcc0e0$0100007f@mar>

That's whould be good for server side I gess. If from the Java Script point
of view, the old brousers wouldn't execute it, would they?
> A trip to regexlib.com revealed this little gem :
>
>
^([a-zA-Z0-9_\-\.]+)@((\[[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.)|(([a-zA-Z0-9\
-]+\.)+))([a-zA-Z]{2,4}|[0-9]{1,3})(\]?)$
>
> (mind the line wrap).
>
> Here is the link to the above expression :
>
> http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26
>
> Regards,
> Burhan Khalid
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From xslf at xslf.com  Thu Dec  6 02:27:10 2001
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Thu Dec  6 02:27:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <20011206053605.D29AC51F2F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B834E9B7.3E66%xslf@xslf.com>

?> ?From?: ?Chris? ?Spruck? <?cspruck at mindspring?.?com?>?
?> ?Subject?: ?Re?: [?thelist?] ?Email? ?Validator
?> <?OE?34?jnzi?95?HfqR?77?bie?0001?c?9?e?2?@hotmail?.?com?>?
?> <003?c?01?c?17?dac?$0?bba?7320$?d?255?a?8?c?0?@ws?.?pu?.?ru?>?
?> ?Reply?-?To?: ?thelist at lists?.?evolt?.?org

?> ?In? ?the? ?above? ?expression?, ?you? ?could? ?make? ?the? ?dot? ?optional? ?by? ?following? ?it
?> ?with? ?a? ?question? ?mark? ?like? ?this?:?
?> ?
?> ?\?.?[?A?-?Za?-?z?0-9]+$/?
?> ?
?> ?The? ?question? ?mark? ?there? ?means? ?ONLY? ?a? ?single? ?dot? ?is? ?allowed?, ?but? ?the? ?dot? ?is
?> ?optional?. ?Change? ?the? ? ?to? ?an? ?asterisk? (?\?.*[?A?-?Za?-?z?0-9]+$) ?and? ?it? ?becomes
?> "?ANY? ?number? ?of? ?dots? ?are? ?allowed?, ?but? ?they? ?are? ?optional?". ?Thus? ?the? ? ?will
?> ?prevent? ?the? ?validation? ?from? ?passing? ?whatever at whatever?..?com?.?

? ?I? ?wonder? ?what? ?it? ?will? ?do? ?with? ?email? ?addresses? ?like
firstname?.?lastname at someplace?.?com? ? ?I? ?have? ?seen? ?quite? ?a? ?bit? ?valid? ?email
addresses? ?in? ?that? ?format?.?

Regards?,?
Shoshannah? ?Forbes





From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 02:28:25 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Thu Dec  6 02:28:25 2001
Subject: OT: URL Wrapping (Was: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .))
In-Reply-To: <200112051930.fB5JU0Yf024894@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011206083001.90111.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

Oh well, I thought it was a good idea at first :-) Guess I should start a major campaign to entice
people to use shorterlink.com. Oooh... here's an idea... they should make a plugin to allow you to
rt-click an existing link or your current location and auto-gen the shorter link to the clipboard.

/rg

--- aardvark <roselli at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > From: Robert Goodyear <rob_goodyear at yahoo.com>
> >
> > I wonder if there would be an efficient way for the listserv to detect
> > text patterns in list emails that start with http:// and wrap them in
> > < and > so they wouldn't break across lines. Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> um, using <> doesn't keep URLs for breaking from me (Pegasus 
> mail)... this is true for many other mail clients...
> 
> it's up to your mail client to recognize multi-line URLs... people 
> sending mail who have mail clients that allow a certain kind of 
> control can experiment with not wrapping the text for that message 
> at a set character width...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From xslf at xslf.com  Thu Dec  6 02:33:38 2001
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Thu Dec  6 02:33:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator 2
In-Reply-To: <B834E9B7.3E66%xslf@xslf.com>
Message-ID: <B834EB3B.3E68%xslf@xslf.com>

> 
> In the above expression, you could make the dot optional by following it
> with a question mark like this:
> 
> \.?[A-Za-z0-9]+$/
> 
> The question mark there means ONLY a single dot is allowed, but the dot is
> optional. Change the ? to an asterisk (\.*[A-Za-z0-9]+$) and it becomes
> "ANY number of dots are allowed, but they are optional". Thus the ? will
> prevent the validation from passing whatever at whatever..com.


How would it deal with my home address, which has two dots?
xslf at netvision.net.il ? Or another email I have at xslf at nana.co.il ? Both
are valid emails, and I had both spit out at times as non-valid.
On the other hand, when I have to enter an address and I don't want to, I
use example at example.com --> since I know example.com is reserved, I know
that know one ever will get any email sent there, thus I am not spamming
some third party.

Regards,
Shoshannah Forbes






From mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com  Thu Dec  6 03:22:08 2001
From: mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com (Joergen Ramskov)
Date: Thu Dec  6 03:22:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>

> From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
> 
> The only reasons to use SVG would be that you already know it and 
> ensuring that your app will work on users machine is a non-issue. 
> Making text look as crisp as thebrain.com's applet is tricky in 
> Flash, but if crisp aliased text important, the hassle to do it would 
> seem small compared to dealing with the reaction when you say, "Here 
> it is! It's SVG!"

Is it hard to make "easy to read" text in Flash? It is not a product that
would be used by millions of users, it's for a limited audience. Furthermore
- I don't see it as a huge problem that they need to install a plugin? Flash
needs to be installed too - yes, Flash is installed on a lot of PC's, but is
it installed on business PC's too?
 
> Not wanting to start a nauseating discussion, but clearing up the 
> misinfo posted to this thread:
> 
> >Bad (Flash): It's proprietary
> 
> The SWF format has been open for years (http://www.openswf.org/ ) ... 
> there are plenty of non-Macromedia tools to create SWFs that play in 
> MM's free Flash Player.

Proprietary may not be the best word, but I still think it is important to
know that Flash is a Macromedia product, SVG is an W3C recommendation. This
means that SVG probably will be supported directly in future browsers (there
is limited support in Mozilla already if you enable it), while Flash will
forever need the Flash plugin. 
 
> >SVG can easily be created by ASP, PHP, Perl or whatever, and 
> extracted from a database.
> 
> Anything that can be shown by the Flash player can be created/updated 
> via a database ... you just need to produce text files with the 
> backend software of your choice.

Okay - is it easy? How do you do it with ex. java?
 
> >* It [SVG] has a built-in ECMA-script (javascript) engine, so you 
> >don't have to
> >code per browser, and you don't need to learn Flash's action-script.
> 
> Same thing with ActionScript on all counts minus learning 
> ActionScript, which IS ECMAscript compliant ... if you know 
> JavaScript, learning ActionScript is just a matter of getting 
> familiar with the Flash specific methods and properties.

Well, I need to learn even less with SVG, correct?

Thanks for your input.

--
Joergen Ramskov




From mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com  Thu Dec  6 03:46:14 2001
From: mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com (Joergen Ramskov)
Date: Thu Dec  6 03:46:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <134783424.1007632071082.JavaMail.root@boots>

> From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>
> 
> > What do you mean with a "Flash-like website"?
> Something like this:
> http://disney.go.com/park/homepage/today/flash/index.html

Okay. No, it will not be something like that. Is such a site hard to create
in SVG? Why?
 
> I use it to make web-applications, either for intra-net, or B 
> to B. I would not use it for something easily done in Flash, 
> or something that's mainly there too "look good". there should 
> be enough insentive to install the 2 meg plugin if that's not 
> already done.

To demand that people need to Install a 2MB plugin is not a problem
in this case - it is for a limited audience and they will all have 
a good internet connection.

> Look into Batik then, it's a Java implementation of SVG, with 
> a server-side and client-side component.

I've read a little bit about it - it doesn't do dynamic stuff yet 
if I recall correctly.
 
> > > * It will run on IE/NS4+NS6/Mozilla, on PC/MAC/Linux (Flash
> > > probably does too) - Not on Opera though.
> >
> > How do you get SVG to run in Mozilla/NS6? Do you use the 
> native Mozilla
> > support? AFAIK the Adobe plugin doesn't work with it, or?
> The plugin, but you have to drop the NPSVG3.dll file into 
> Mozilla's plugin directory yourself.

I'm having trouble getting it to show dynamic SVG content - it shows 
it fine in IE, but not in Mozilla, there it is static.
 
--
Joergen Ramskov




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 03:47:21 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Thu Dec  6 03:47:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
In-Reply-To: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEKENNCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi all

I've got IIS/PWS installed on a laptop, which we want to use to give some
demonstrations on.  THe problem is that IIS doesn't appear to be serving ASP
pages at all.  It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requests are
just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to move.
The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log and
it's showing the ASP service as having started.

There are a couple of errors showing in the log

Message 1
Unable to query the W3SVC (HTTP) service performance data. The error code
returned by the service is data DWORD 0.

Message 2
Unable to query the IIS Info service performance data. The error code
returned by the service is data DWORD 0.

Unfortunatly the handy M$ error links don't appear to work, and the KB
reference
to it is to do with performance monitoring.  Anyone got any ideas?

Norman




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Dec  6 03:53:24 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Dec  6 03:53:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEKENNCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEIJCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

right for PWS, open up the options, go to advanced - you'll see to the
right:
"Default Documents" - in there you will have default.html, index.html, you
want to add default.asp, index.asp, and default.htm and index.htm (just to
be sure)


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Norman Beresford
Sent: 06 December 2001 09:55
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems


Hi all

I've got IIS/PWS installed on a laptop, which we want to use to give some
demonstrations on.  THe problem is that IIS doesn't appear to be serving ASP
pages at all.  It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requests are
just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to move.
The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log and
it's showing the ASP service as having started.

There are a couple of errors showing in the log

Message 1
Unable to query the W3SVC (HTTP) service performance data. The error code
returned by the service is data DWORD 0.

Message 2
Unable to query the IIS Info service performance data. The error code
returned by the service is data DWORD 0.

Unfortunatly the handy M$ error links don't appear to work, and the KB
reference
to it is to do with performance monitoring.  Anyone got any ideas?

Norman


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 04:00:57 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Thu Dec  6 04:00:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEIJCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGENOCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi Paul

It's not a problem with default documents, as I've tried requesting specific
.asp documents.  Sorry should have mentioned that it's IIS/PWS running on
win2kPro

Norman (whos bad computer day is now extending into it's second day, with
another machine unable to see the network)






From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 04:20:11 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 04:20:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <F87g3AmsfGdMNFmWAFs00006364@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <OE57Z14eBa1kg3AmsfG0000938f@hotmail.com>

> From: "Burhan Khalid" <burhankh at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Email Validator


> A trip to regexlib.com revealed this little gem :
>
>
^([a-zA-Z0-9_\-\.]+)@((\[[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.[0-9]{1,3}\.)|(([a-zA-Z0-9\
-]+\.)+))([a-zA-Z]{2,4}|[0-9]{1,3})(\]?)$
>
> http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26
>

The page says:

"Email validator that adheres directly to the specification for email
address naming. It allows for everything from ipaddress and country-code
domains, to very rare characters in the username."

I don't know of any such "specification", and I don't think one exists. It
also talks about "very rare characters in the username" and it only handles
the "conventional" ones.

It looks like a lousy user contribution.





From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 04:37:03 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 04:37:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess
References: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIEEOMCMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <OE320apMHi0SYNIPukg00000857@hotmail.com>

> From: "Bill Haenel" <bill at webmarketingworx.com>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] .htaccess


> Let's say I added  a .htaccess file to a directory with this line:
>
> AddType application/x-httpd-php .html
>
> Now let's say I don't want this to affect subdirectories...how do I make
> that happen?
>

Unfortunately, you can't use the <Directory> directive in .htaccess.
So I think the only solution is to put in every sub-directory an .htaccess
file with the directive:

AddType text/html .html

(I haven't tried that.)





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 04:53:59 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Dec  6 04:53:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
In-Reply-To: <OE57Z14eBa1kg3AmsfG0000938f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHEEDCFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

matthew,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Matthew Blanchard
>
> > http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26
>
> The page says:
>
> "Email validator that adheres directly to the
> specification for email address naming. It allows for
> everything from ipaddress and country-code domains, to
> very rare characters in the username."
>
> I don't know of any such "specification", and I don't
> think one exists.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

guess again.  it's one of the most famous specifications.  it's called rfc
822.

http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/822/index.htm

i'll save you the digging you'll need to do to find the bit about address
specification.

http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/822/41.htm

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From evolt at georgedillon.com  Thu Dec  6 05:38:49 2001
From: evolt at georgedillon.com (George Dillon  <> Evolt!)
Date: Thu Dec  6 05:38:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] [evolt] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea? (was RE: js include error in IE 3)
References: <20011206053607.9E09851F39@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001501c17e4a$bac2e8e0$98b80150@athlon800>

I intended to send nate this reply offlist, but it reminded me of a
question which has been troubling me for a little while...

I've read recently that using server-side browser-sniffing to keep code lean
by tailoring it for each browser's quirks is NOT a good idea because of web
caches.  The undesirable scenario is that a web cache stores the page
designed for WinMSIE5 (e.g.) and then delivers THAT verison when requested
by a user with MacNN4... resulting in a layout mess for that particular
user.

Is this a real issue or have I misunderstood how web caches work?

[Note: I am not talking about client browser caches but the server caches
created by some ISPs.]

TIA

George Dillon


===============================

nate wrote:

> i've run across a silly problem with IE 3. does anyone know if IE3/pc does
> or doesn't support included js files?

If your server allows you to use XSSI this 'feature' of IE3 is not a problem
and can easily be overcome. All you need to do is sniff for IE3 and if found
include it between style tags rather than call it as a linked .js a bit like
this:

<!--#if expr="($VAR_jssrc=/yes/)"
  --><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript" SRC="/path/myfile.js"
  TYPE="text/javascript"></SCRIPT><!--#else

  --><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript" TYPE="text/javascript"><!--#include
  virtual="/path/myfile.js" --></SCRIPT><!--#endif
  -->

The sniffing part might go a bit like this (slightly pruned version of the
real code, but any suggestions to improve my sloppy code would be welcome :)

<!--#set var="VAR_browser" value="msie"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="4"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_jssrc" value="yes"

 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/Mozilla.*.*/)
              && ($HTTP_USER_AGENT !=/compatible/)
              && ($HTTP_USER_AGENT !=/Spoofer/)
              && ($HTTP_USER_AGENT !=/Opera/)
              && ($HTTP_USER_AGENT !=/WebTV/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_browser" value="nav"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/Opera/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_browser" value="opera"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/AOL/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_browser" value="aol"
 --><!--#endif

 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=//1/)
 || ($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/ 1/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="1"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=//2/)
 || ($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/ 2/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="2"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=//3/)
 || ($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/ 3/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="3"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=//5/)
 || ($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/ 5/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="5"
 --><!--#endif
 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=//6/)
 || ($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/ 6/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="6"
 --><!--#endif

 --><!--#if expr="($HTTP_USER_AGENT=/Gecko/)"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_browser" value="gecko"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_version" value="6"
 --><!--#endif

 --><!--#if expr="($VAR_version=/1/)
 || ($VAR_version=/2/)
 || (($VAR_version=/3/) && ($VAR_browser=/msie/))"
 --><!--#set var="VAR_jssrc" value="no"
 --><!--#endif

 -->


HTH

George Dillon








From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Dec  6 06:13:54 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 06:13:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <134783424.1007632071082.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <074301c17e4f$50dcac40$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joergen Ramskov" <mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com>

> > Something like this:
> > http://disney.go.com/park/homepage/today/flash/index.html
>
> Okay. No, it will not be something like that. Is such a site hard to
create
> in SVG? Why?
Because you can't use Flash's WYSIWYG interface.
You can't really use Flash-like reusable clips.
The SMIL animation engine is very processor-intensive. (it doesn't have a
user adjustable frame-rate, so even an un-important little animation will be
run at the best quality the processor will allow, meaning it uses 100%
processor when a lot of animations are combined.)
SVG's tools, and the available documentation isn't at the same level as
Flash'.

> > Look into Batik then, it's a Java implementation of SVG, with
> > a server-side and client-side component.
>
> I've read a little bit about it - it doesn't do dynamic stuff yet
> if I recall correctly.
Since a short while it has scripting support, although not full yet.
Personnaly I don't like Batik, but if you use JAVA it might be of use.

> > The plugin, but you have to drop the NPSVG3.dll file into
> > Mozilla's plugin directory yourself.
>
> I'm having trouble getting it to show dynamic SVG content - it shows
> it fine in IE, but not in Mozilla, there it is static.
Maybe you're not using the internal scripting engine, and your code doesn't
agree with Mozilla.
Normally mozilla does support everything (when using the Adobe plugin)
Join the developers list to discuss these kind of things.

Cheers,
Richard.





From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Dec  6 06:39:44 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 06:39:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
References: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <074b01c17e52$f24bda80$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joergen Ramskov" <mqy4fxax36001 at sneakemail.com>
> Proprietary may not be the best word, but I still think it is important to
> know that Flash is a Macromedia product, SVG is an W3C recommendation.
This
> means that SVG probably will be supported directly in future browsers
(there
> is limited support in Mozilla already if you enable it), while Flash will
> forever need the Flash plugin.

I think this is a wrong assessment.
Firstly , there's nothing wrong with plugins - if we didn't have them, we'd
have 50meg browser installs. (oh, we do?)
Secondly, all extensible browser functionality is delivered through plugins.
Even VML is essentially a plugin, you just can't plug it "out".
MS is currently far ahead of Mozilla or others when it comes to plugins,
with their binary behavior technology. For IE at least all plugins can be
expected to use this technology before long.
PDF was never slowed down because it needed a plugin.

although a lot of companies helped setting up SVG (including MS) (see:
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/#AuthorList ) Microsoft has taken a step back, as
SVG/SMIL is too close to VML/TIME for them.
For That reason I don't see them including the SVG plugin (and thus creating
the illusion of native support) any time soon.

The future will lie with multiple namespace support in XML browsers. Already
you can do this in IE5.5+ (with a little hacking around) so you can combine
SVG, and other XML technologies, in a xhtml page.

I might add that the comparison SVG/Flash is not really ideal either - they
are complimentary technologies, I generally prefer SVG as you are not
distracted by the wysiwyg interface, and can code in a familiar context,
using DOM ECMA-script XML and CSS, but for some applications Flash is simply
faster and easier.

Cheers,
Richard




From lauri.vain at tharapita.com  Thu Dec  6 07:19:17 2001
From: lauri.vain at tharapita.com (Lauri Vain)
Date: Thu Dec  6 07:19:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Getting information about a remote server
Message-ID: <002901c17e59$118061e0$1631a8c0@hot7>

Hello there,

I'm writing a script that needs to know whether php, asp, cf, sql etc is
installed on a remote server. How can I identify those? Is there any possibility
at all to query information about what is installed on a remote web server? What
does the "expose_php" line in PHP configuration file do anyway?

Secondly... Another part of the script needs to find out all the domains on a
particular system. As far as I know, there is way to query via WHOIS all the
domains that use a known DNS server or all the domains that reside on a common
IP.

Are there ways to get that information?

Thanks,
Lauri




From cewing at mooremedical.com  Thu Dec  6 07:24:09 2001
From: cewing at mooremedical.com (Ewing, Christopher)
Date: Thu Dec  6 07:24:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Multi-Part CFMail
Message-ID: <E2C69736017ED511A6BF00508BB93CCE0115C196@MAILSERV1>

I'm using CF5.0 Professional server and working from samples that I've found
online to generate multi-part emails to users, but when I use these, I'm
getting the header information in the email itself instead of the html
version.

I have the following code:

<cfset MimeBoundary="--1FAEA046-E909-11D5-98A600508BB0E4E5">
<cfmail to="cewing at mooremedical.com" from="cewing at mooremedical.com"
subject="Text/HTML Email Test 3"> 
     <cfmailparam name="MIME-Version" value="1.0"> 
     <cfmailparam name="Content-Type" value="multipart/alternative;      
     boundary=#chr(34)##mimeBoundary##chr(34)#"> 
     <cfmailparam name="Content-Transfer-Encoding" value="7bit"> 
     --#mimeBoundary# 
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

   This is the Plain Text section.  This <b>should not be bold</b>

     --#mimeBoundary# 
     Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii 
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

        <html><body>
   Dude this is an HTML email.<Br>
   <font color="##FF0000">This text should be red</font><br><br><br><br>
   This should be 4 lines beneath the last text.<Br>
   <h1>This should be a headline.</h1><br>
   Please forward this back to me
   </body></html>

     --#mimeBoundary#-- 
     </cfmail>

This generates an email to me that looks like:


     ----1FAEA046-E909-11D5-98A600508BB0E4E5 
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

   This is the Plain Text section.  This <b>should not be bold</b>

     ----1FAEA046-E909-11D5-98A600508BB0E4E5 
     Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii 
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

        <html><body>
   Dude this is an HTML email.<Br>
   <font color="#FF0000">This text should be red</font><br><br><br><br>
   This should be 4 lines beneath the last text.<Br>
   <h1>This should be a headline.</h1><br>
   Please forward this back to me
   </body></html>

     ----1FAEA046-E909-11D5-98A600508BB0E4E5-- 
     

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?



From evolt at efeingold.com  Thu Dec  6 07:24:18 2001
From: evolt at efeingold.com (josh)
Date: Thu Dec  6 07:24:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: F2S Announcement
In-Reply-To: <F597miR9Odutox7nyeK0000e230@hotmail.com> 
References: <F597miR9Odutox7nyeK0000e230@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20011206132555.6997.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>

Any other webhosts that you would like to recommend? 

Well - I did a search a while back and found affordablehost.com.  I think I 
pay $25 yearly for a site with all the things you need and unlimited email 
aliases.  I have found that the web admin, Tina, is very helpful and 
responds with speed.  She will do a custom package based on your needs and 
isn't greedy. 

(I don't know if I would use them for a client's site since I don't have a 
solid relationship with them.  Don't get me wrong, the downtime, if any is 
minimal, but for a client's site I would rather spend their money on a 
nationally known host and not take a fall in the event something went 
wrong.) 

Overall I have been extremely happy with their service. 

Josh 




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 07:36:58 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Thu Dec  6 07:36:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Getting information about a remote server
In-Reply-To: <002901c17e59$118061e0$1631a8c0@hot7>
References: <002901c17e59$118061e0$1631a8c0@hot7>
Message-ID: <1007646042.3305.18.camel@cincinnati.home>

On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 13:22, Lauri Vain wrote:

> I'm writing a script that needs to know whether php, asp, cf, sql etc is
> installed on a remote server. How can I identify those? Is there any possibility
> at all to query information about what is installed on a remote web server? What
> does the "expose_php" line in PHP configuration file do anyway?

You can telnet to port 80 (the http port) on the web server and send a
manual GET command, which will result in the following:

[garrett at cincinnati ~]$ telnet cincinnati.home 80
Trying 10.0.0.2...
Connected to cincinnati.home.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0  <--- type this then hit return twice

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:33:27 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.22 (Unix)  (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.5
OpenSSL/0.9.6b DAV/1.0.2 PHP/4.0.6 mod_perl/1.24_01
[snip]


If you set 'expose_php' to off, then the PHP details won't be returned.

If you have the libwww perl library installed then you can just use the
'HEAD' command to achieve the same effect:

[garrett at cincinnati ~]$ HEAD cincinnati.home
200 OK
Connection: close
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:36:46 GMT
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Server: Apache/1.3.22 (Unix)  (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.5
OpenSSL/0.9.6b DAV/1.0.2 PHP/4.0.6 mod_perl/1.24_01
[snip]


HTH

G.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Dec  6 08:10:57 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Dec  6 08:10:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206194048.02a8d120@203.197.12.4>

Hi.

I'm planning to get a DSL line for myself (my phone bills are exorbitant 
from being connected 10-12 hours a day).

Unfortunately, all DSL providers in my area have limits on how much 
bandwidth you can use in a month - 1 GB/ month.

Is this a practice in USA too? Or are there no limits?

Thanks,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  6 08:20:45 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Dec  6 08:20:45 2001
Subject: OT: URL Wrapping (Was: [thelist] Variable Stylesheets?(sorta long. . .))
In-Reply-To: <20011206083001.90111.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200112051930.fB5JU0Yf024894@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112061420.fB6EKi0E032008@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Robert Goodyear <rob_goodyear at yahoo.com>
>
> Oh well, I thought it was a good idea at first :-) Guess I should
> start a major campaign to entice people to use shorterlink.com.
> Oooh... here's an idea... they should make a plugin to allow you to
> rt-click an existing link or your current location and auto-gen the
> shorter link to the clipboard.

i just send long URLs via postal mail...

<tip type="Flash">
So you've accounted for users who don't have Flash installed as 
well as those that do -- perhaps by testing on the client side, or 
maybe on the server side.  But have you tested how users who 
have the plug-in, but who have it disabled (via security settings, for 
example), see the page?  Don't forget to account for them, you'd be 
amazed how many pages with Flash embedded in them collapse 
without the Flash movie.
</tip>



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  6 08:25:29 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Dec  6 08:25:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] [evolt] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea? (was RE: js include error in IE 3)
In-Reply-To: <001501c17e4a$bac2e8e0$98b80150@athlon800>
Message-ID: <200112061425.fB6EPS0E032231@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "George Dillon  <> Evolt!" <evolt at georgedillon.com>
[...]
> I've read recently that using server-side browser-sniffing to keep
> code lean by tailoring it for each browser's quirks is NOT a good idea
> because of web caches.  The undesirable scenario is that a web cache
> stores the page designed for WinMSIE5 (e.g.) and then delivers THAT
> verison when requested by a user with MacNN4... resulting in a layout
> mess for that particular user.
> 
> Is this a real issue or have I misunderstood how web caches work?
> 
> [Note: I am not talking about client browser caches but the server
> caches created by some ISPs.]

this is absolutely a concern... think of proxies at large 
organizations... they often cache pages, and depending on who 
requested it, that's what you see...

a previous employer of mine didn't believe this and insisted on all 
sorts of browser-sniffing code to deliver pages with JS and HTML 
specific to the browser... a quick demonstration of me calling up 
the page in Navigator showed how all the IE users (which was 
nearly everyone) saw a page with some strange layout and lots of 
JS errors...

that it was an ecommerce site made the impact of the argument all 
that much more potent... suddenly, IE users in our organization 
couldn't place orders...

keep in mind, proxies and other caching thingies (ISPs, for 
example) can be configured to help alleviate this issue, or make it 
worse.... if you aren't configuring it, assume the worst...




From persist1 at io.com  Thu Dec  6 08:45:21 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Thu Dec  6 08:45:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206194048.02a8d120@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112060837530.7998-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Madhu Menon wrote:

> I'm planning to get a DSL line for myself (my phone bills are exorbitant
> from being connected 10-12 hours a day).
>
> Unfortunately, all DSL providers in my area have limits on how much
> bandwidth you can use in a month - 1 GB/ month.
>
> Is this a practice in USA too? Or are there no limits?

It depends on who your provider is.  Where I live (Portland, Oregon) my
telco charges $40/mo. for 768/128 no guarantees, no limit.

If I get the same level of service from my dialup ISP (who of course has
to lease plant from the telco) I get charged $25/mo., 2GB quota.

Is that 1GB/mo. a hard ceiling, or will they meter it beyond that point
and pro-rate charges accordingly?

I'm shaking my head at that number... I commonly manage four or five
hundred megabytes per month of throughput... at 56K.  More, if I'm doing a
lot of P2P (or adcritic, or mp3.com).


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org  Thu Dec  6 09:19:49 2001
From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford)
Date: Thu Dec  6 09:19:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] When can the client keep the product as their own?
Message-ID: <A33073326362D411B6B900902745F4011FF573@BARBELL>

The U.S. Copyright Office provides a handy summary of U.S. copyright law at
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html. The sections on Who Can Claim
Copyright and Transfer of Copyright are particularly relevant to this
thread. 



From Ron.Luther at compaq.com  Thu Dec  6 09:37:03 2001
From: Ron.Luther at compaq.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Thu Dec  6 09:37:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? - was [F2S Announcement]
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F3E5@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Whoa Cool!!

Hey Dan,


Any chance of a "leg-up" for the linux-impaired among us - like me?
:-)

I've played with the mysql and php on meo - [wonderful stuff! - Thanks
MUCH!] - and I'm starting to get it to do what I want.

I'd really like to play with Perl too ... 

Is there a short article or note or test file somewhere with a
step-by-step, ["make the shebang line look like this", "then store the
file in a directory called that"], that could get me going in Perl?

{As usual - I've already bought several books on Perl ... read a few of
them ... and I can get some baby stuff working in ActiveState Perl from
the command line -- but I have yet to get a net example working.}


Heck, I just may have the file extension wrong.

All I've gotten so far is permission and server errors:

http://members.evolt.org/ronl/cgi-bin/Perl1.cgi

http://members.evolt.org/ronl/cgi-bin/monkey.cgi


I figgered that meant I wasn't allowed to play with perl ... so I kinda
quit trying.


RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:djc at members.evolt.org]

For the most part, I'm cool with people that contribute to evolt on a 
somewhat regular basis hosting personal sites on members.evolt.org.. I 
think you have an account there already. It does have perl, php, mysql, 
and ftp plus a lot of other cool stuff to play around with too..




From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 09:46:20 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 09:46:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator
References: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHEEDCFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <OE46FkBfMPAFcdnksMh0001124a@hotmail.com>

> From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Email Validator


> matthew,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Matthew Blanchard
> >
> > > http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26
> >
> > The page says:
> >
> > "Email validator that adheres directly to the
> > specification for email address naming. It allows for
> > everything from ipaddress and country-code domains, to
> > very rare characters in the username."
> >
> > I don't know of any such "specification", and I don't
> > think one exists.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> guess again.  it's one of the most famous specifications.  it's called rfc
> 822.
>
> http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/822/index.htm
>

Thanks, Jeff.

I know about this document, but it's quite unrestrictive and so it doesn't
help us:

  address = mailbox / group
  mailbox = addr-spec
  addr-spec = local-part "@" domain
  local-part = word *("." word)
  word = atom / quoted-string
  atom = 1*<any CHAR except specials, SPACE and CTLs>

hence the user name part can have almost any character.

The following page has some more info

http://cr.yp.to/im/address.html

I don't see any linkage between the regexp at
http://regexlib.com/REDetails.aspx?regexp_id=26 and the RFC.

The best thing to do is not to validate email addresses at all. The first
link I gave (in this discussion) was to a FAQ with some good arguments (I
guess poeple didn't click it because the link was wrapped. OT question: is
it my email client who is responsible for the wrap?)

> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/

The toolbar it cute! :-)






From bimal.shah at venus.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 09:55:58 2001
From: bimal.shah at venus.co.uk (Bimal Shah)
Date: Thu Dec  6 09:55:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion : CFFTP connection too slow
Message-ID: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCGEHDCMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>

Making an initial connection using cfftp (using action="open") seems
to be taking between 9-10 seconds...

The full message was posted on Allaire coldfusion forum
this morning.

http://forums.allaire.com/coldfusion/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=233712

Thanks

---
Bimal Shah (Senior Web Developer)
(T) 020 7240 5858 (F) 020 7240 5859
(E) bimal at venus.co.uk
Venus Internet Limited http://www.venus.co.uk




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Thu Dec  6 09:59:31 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Thu Dec  6 09:59:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question
References: <001001c17dc4$9a638540$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>
Message-ID: <001601c17e6f$3b041f00$2860398a@newcos.com>

Salvatore,

> > WIDTH: 100px;
> > WIDTH: expression(200);

    I'm surprised this got past me, but webfx is using IE-proprietary
dynamic styles [1]. I've used the setExpression() method [2] within script,
but have done only minimal testing, long ago, with the related expression()
method within a style sheet. By their own admission, webfx is actually using
the expression() method as a hack: the first, standard width style is
applied to most browsers, whereas IE 5 and above interpret the second width
style containing the expression, allowing webfx to more easily accommodate
browser inconsistencies.
    Despite their proprietary nature, IE expressions are actually pretty
handy, allowing you to create dynamic styles that automatically adjust to
changes within the browser, avoiding the need for more extensive scripting.
Some will decry the mixing of scripting within style sheets in this manner,
arguing that it is little different from mixing content and presentation in
HTML. I'm not sure that I agree, but am interested in the discussion if
there are any who feel strongly.

James Aylard

1.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/recalc.asp#Implemen
t
2.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/methods/setexpress
ion.asp




From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 10:01:14 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:01:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] DJC -- Major Security Hole in Evolt.org? (Take II) My Apologies
References: <F132g0wBrY3VaI0oZIi000048a9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C0F962B.7010607@members.evolt.org>

FWIW (as i cleaned the coffee from my monitor which was sprayed forth 
from my mouth when i read 'major security hole in evolt.org' as the 
subject for a couple emails ;)

The amount of access you have is less dangerous than having SSH to the 
box, since you have less permissions as nobody than you would as a 
regular user.. Thats not to say I really care for people traversing the 
filesystem through php - or perl for that matter. I used to have the PHP 
shell stuff turned off, but a couple people said they really wanted to 
use it and no where else could they go to play with it....so i turned it 
on. If people have information on their members.evolt.org that other 
shouldn't be seeing: 1.) it probably shouldn't be there in the first 
place 2.) they need to take actions so their files aren't world viewable 
3.) they should encrypt them

If you have any other concerns, ask away..

.djc.

Burhan Khalid wrote:

> Security Hole Scare (Take II - My Apologies)
> 
> Upon a recheck (and a calming walk to the fridge) -- looking upon the 
> same situation, I find that thankfully I am "nobody" -- hence have 
> piddly rights, but on the script that I was using (MyShell), it has 
> provisions to ban certain commands from being used (say shutdown, kill, 
> xterm, etc.). I don't imagine it would be too hard for someone with a 
> little more knowledge than I to figure out how to get around this 
> limitation. I mean, geez, just the thought of having remote access to 
> the shell from a web browser scares me. SSH I can live with. Heck, I 
> used telnet to check my email, but it seems too easy that someone with 
> just enough knowledge can write a script to do such things.
> 
> The MyShell script itself it but a page long. Thanks a bunch Anthony for 
> the heads up. I probably would have freaked more if I hadn't realized my 
> lapse in judgement.





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Dec  6 10:02:38 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:02:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
Message-ID: <OF59EA247A.12549BD1-ON80256B1A.00581873@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Hi Madhu

Can't speak for DSL or America *grin*, but I've no limit
on my cable modem (and a good thing too)

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] DSL in America

Unfortunately, all DSL providers in my area have limits on how much
bandwidth you can use in a month - 1 GB/ month.

Is this a practice in USA too? Or are there no limits?

Thanks,

Madhu


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Thu Dec  6 10:07:17 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:07:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
Message-ID: <OF8B836AC3.73B1E45A-ON85256B1A.00587EFC@beaerospace.com>

<snip>
Unfortunately, all DSL providers in my area have limits on how much
bandwidth you can use in a month - 1 GB/ month.
</snip>

No, not at all.  I use directv DSL (formerly telocity) and have a web
server at home.  So long as it isn't commercial and your usage doesn't
impact their system, they let you do what you want.  I don't think I could
handle a 1GB download max per month.

-Ron




From spalmisano at usashs.com  Thu Dec  6 10:08:10 2001
From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:08:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Question
In-Reply-To: <001601c17e6f$3b041f00$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <000901c17e70$81411e90$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local>

Your extensive explanations are very much appreciated James.  Thank you.

--Salvatore

-----Original Message-----
From: MRC [mailto:webmaster at equilon-mrc.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:01 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Cc: Salvatore Palmisano
Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS Question


    I'm surprised this got past me, but webfx is using IE-proprietary
dynamic styles [1]. I've used the setExpression() method [2] within script,
but have done only minimal testing, long ago, with the related expression()
method within a style sheet. By their own admission, webfx is actually using
the expression() method as a hack: the first, standard width style is
applied to most browsers, whereas IE 5 and above interpret the second width
style containing the expression, allowing webfx to more easily accommodate
browser inconsistencies.
    Despite their proprietary nature, IE expressions are actually pretty
handy, allowing you to create dynamic styles that automatically adjust to
changes within the browser, avoiding the need for more extensive scripting.
Some will decry the mixing of scripting within style sheets in this manner,
arguing that it is little different from mixing content and presentation in
HTML. I'm not sure that I agree, but am interested in the discussion if
there are any who feel strongly.

James Aylard

1.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/recalc.asp#Implemen
t
2.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/methods/setexpress
ion.asp

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/4/2001





From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 10:11:57 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:11:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? - was [F2S Announcement]
References: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F3E5@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <3C0F98AB.4060108@members.evolt.org>


Luther, Ron wrote:


> Any chance of a "leg-up" for the linux-impaired among us - like me?
> :-)
> 
> I've played with the mysql and php on meo - [wonderful stuff! - Thanks
> MUCH!] - and I'm starting to get it to do what I want.


glad you like it :)


> I'd really like to play with Perl too ... 
> 
> Is there a short article or note or test file somewhere with a
> step-by-step, ["make the shebang line look like this", "then store the
> file in a directory called that"], that could get me going in Perl?


hrmm. i'm not the biggest perl guy, but maybe garrett c, anthony, dean, 
or any of the other perl gurus can point some out :)


> I figgered that meant I wasn't allowed to play with perl ... so I kinda
> quit trying.

Actually, as I put in the FAQ for m.e.o ( 
http://members.evolt.org/faq.cfm #2 ) you have to ask for CGI access cus 
I like to know who is using it :)

.djc.




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Thu Dec  6 10:13:55 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:13:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pay Pal - CDN Equivalent ?
Message-ID: <003601c17e71$76f8b6e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hi folks ...

I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a Canadian equivalent of
paypal?  I realize paypal now accepts international transfers, but it seems
rather silly to me to use paypal to deal with Canadian to Canadian funds.
(And, I've had a bad experience with paypal .. so, another solution would be
more to my liking.)


TIA,

Michele





From eol1 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 10:30:07 2001
From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Eöl)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:30:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112060837530.7998-100000@bermuda.io.com>
Message-ID: <20011206163145.60773.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com>

Ben Henick,

I believe you are misreading the term *unlimited*. 
Bet your TOS has a blivet that says within reasonable
use or something along those lines.  Try creating a
program that uses 100% of your d/l and u/l bandwidth
24 hours a day 7 days a week for a month or two. 
Heck, make one that even uses 25% of it.  Bet you get
a call and a cancel from your ISP.  Your ISP pays for
every bit you send/receive in peering  and transit
costs.  The reason they can offer unlimited is because
they expect reasonable residential use where you line
is idle or <10% use the majority of the time (ie
sleeping/work/you aren't using bandwidth when you are
viewing a page (as it is already d/l'ed).  1GB per
month does seem kind of low though.  

E?l

--- Ben Henick <persist1 at io.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Madhu Menon wrote:
> 
> > I'm planning to get a DSL line for myself (my
> phone bills are exorbitant
> > from being connected 10-12 hours a day).
> >
> > Unfortunately, all DSL providers in my area have
> limits on how much
> > bandwidth you can use in a month - 1 GB/ month.
> >
> > Is this a practice in USA too? Or are there no
> limits?
> 
> It depends on who your provider is.  Where I live
> (Portland, Oregon) my
> telco charges $40/mo. for 768/128 no guarantees, no
> limit.
> 
> If I get the same level of service from my dialup
> ISP (who of course has
> to lease plant from the telco) I get charged
> $25/mo., 2GB quota.
> 
> Is that 1GB/mo. a hard ceiling, or will they meter
> it beyond that point
> and pro-rate charges accordingly?
> 
> I'm shaking my head at that number... I commonly
> manage four or five
> hundred megabytes per month of throughput... at 56K.
>  More, if I'm doing a
> lot of P2P (or adcritic, or mp3.com).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ben Henick
> Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
> http://www.io.com/persist1/     
> http://www.digital-web.com/
> persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
> --
> "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
> "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too
> stupid."
> "We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
> "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 10:37:17 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:37:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? - was [F2S Announcement]
In-Reply-To: <3C0F98AB.4060108@members.evolt.org>
References: 	<8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F3E5@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> 
	<3C0F98AB.4060108@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1007656837.3303.26.camel@cincinnati.home>

On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 16:11, Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> hrmm. i'm not the biggest perl guy, but maybe garrett c, anthony, dean, 
> or any of the other perl gurus can point some out :)

/me sprays beer all over the monitor

Me? A perl guru!!?? Yeah right!! Dan, you been drinking on the job
again?


<tip author="Garrett Coakley" type="Checking your enviroment on Linux">

Want to know what variables are set up for your shell when you log into
a Linux box. 'env' is your friend:

[garrett at cincinnati garrett]$ env
PWD=/home/garrett
HOSTNAME=cincinnati.home
USER=garrett
SHELL=/bin/bash
HOSTTYPE=i386
OSTYPE=linux-gnu
HISTSIZE=1000
HOME=/home/garrett
TERM=xterm
OLDPWD=/home/garrett/accounts/personal

</tip>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Thu Dec  6 10:43:28 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Thu Dec  6 10:43:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] returning the row id after an insert (MS SQL 7)
In-Reply-To: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCGEHDCMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJIEMJCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

This is probably a common question but a search didn't provide me with much
so...

What I'm doing now is inserting new rows into my table and then selecting
the row id with a separate sql statement based on the data inserted in the
prior sql statement.  Isn't there a way to do this in one statement rather
than 2?  Any help is much appreciated.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net




From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 11:00:41 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:00:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? - was [F2S Announcement]
References: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F3E5@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> 	<3C0F98AB.4060108@members.evolt.org> <1007656837.3303.26.camel@cincinnati.home>
Message-ID: <3C0FA3F1.7060405@members.evolt.org>

er. i meant the *other* garrettc that *does* know perl.

ya.

i owe :)

<tip type="peroformance tuning">

On unix machines, vmstat is a helpfull command for identifying 
performance bottlenecks in your webserver. Heres some sample output from 
concerning processes and memory(fixed width font would be good):

    procs                      memory    swap
  r  b  w   swpd   free   buff  cache  si  so
  1  0  0      0 120432  41152 423420   0   0

the first three columns are concern processes r(waiting), b(sleeping), 
w(swaped out or backgrounded). The next column, swpd, is how much swap 
space(virtual memory) you're using. In this example, I'm using none, 
which is good. If you're disk is always swapping, performance is 
*severely* hindered. This is also a good sign you need more physical 
memory in your box. The next column, free, tells me I've got 120M of 
free physical memory, a good thing. Next, buffer and cache, tell me I've 
got around 41Mb of memory 'buffered'(the pergatory of read/write IO), 
and around 420Mb of RAM cached. The more data you can get cached, the 
better performance you'll see out of your webserver as you won't need to 
performe resource intensive I/O. Finally, si and so, tell me how much(if 
any) data is being input(si) or output(so) from virtual memory in therms 
of kB.

More we could go into, but beyond the scope of a tip :)

</tip>

.djc.

Garrett Coakley wrote:

> On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 16:11, Daniel J. Cody wrote:
> 
> 
>>hrmm. i'm not the biggest perl guy, but maybe garrett c, anthony, dean, 
>>or any of the other perl gurus can point some out :)
>>
> 
> /me sprays beer all over the monitor
> 
> Me? A perl guru!!?? Yeah right!! Dan, you been drinking on the job
> again?
> 
> 
> <tip author="Garrett Coakley" type="Checking your enviroment on Linux">
> 
> Want to know what variables are set up for your shell when you log into
> a Linux box. 'env' is your friend:
> 
> [garrett at cincinnati garrett]$ env
> PWD=/home/garrett
> HOSTNAME=cincinnati.home
> USER=garrett
> SHELL=/bin/bash
> HOSTTYPE=i386
> OSTYPE=linux-gnu
> HISTSIZE=1000
> HOME=/home/garrett
> TERM=xterm
> OLDPWD=/home/garrett/accounts/personal
> 
> </tip>
> 
> 





From ftarzwell at fayec.com  Thu Dec  6 11:04:35 2001
From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC))
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:04:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Disable Print???
Message-ID: <3C0FA564.A3222468@fayec.com>

Hi,

A friend of mine has a client who wants her to disable print for one
specific page.
I never heard of anything like that before so I thought I should post
the question to the list.

Thanks,
FayeC



From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Thu Dec  6 11:08:32 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (jay.blanchard at thermon.com)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:08:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Disable Print???
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011206111333.00af8b90@pop.gvtc.com>

You could use a style sheet to designated a print area that is blank, 
visitors can still prinn, but it there would be nothing on the page.

Jay Blanchard
Web Development Manager
Thermon Manufacturing Company
1.512.396.5801 x327




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Dec  6 11:10:57 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:10:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] returning the row id after an insert (MS SQL 7)
Message-ID: <01c17e79$303978e0$4751149a@rudy>

>What I'm doing now is inserting new rows into my table and then selecting
>the row id with a separate sql statement based on the data inserted in the
>prior sql statement.  Isn't there a way to do this in one statement rather
>than 2?  Any help is much appreciated.

hi chris

at least you are doing the second query based on the *data* of the insert,
rather than using "select max(pkey)"

  see http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010806/010771.html

querying back using data is actually a pretty decent way of doing it,
because it's compatible with multithreading, and does not require you to
set the two statements into a transaction block

see also http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010910/013174.html

anyhow, since you are using sql/server, you should look into @@identity

rudy




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Dec  6 11:21:15 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:21:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Strip incoming HTML mail in Outlook
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206224946.02a3c1f8@203.197.12.4>

Found this through Camworld.com:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23223.html

If you want to strip the HTML from an incoming mail in Outlook (something 
you couldn't do till now), this plug-in will come in handy.

Imagine that - no web bugs, no JavaScript, etc.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
madhu at members.evolt.org
Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com





From ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com  Thu Dec  6 11:44:20 2001
From: ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:44:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator 2
Message-ID: <3C0FAF0F.B208D07B@lionbridge.com>

This is slightly OT, but here's a function I use for cursory validation of e-mail
addresses. I find it easier than trying to figure out a regular expression (although I'm
sure someone out there could come up with one that does the same thing real quick). It
would be best used in conjunction with self-validation, such as by sending a password to
the address.

--
function isEmail(email) 
{
	var strEmail = trim(email.value);
	// there is only one @ symbol
	if (onlyOneAtSymbol(strEmail) &&
		// the @ symbol's not the first character
		strEmail.indexOf("@") > 0 &&
		// there's a . after the @, and at least one char between it and the @
	   	(strEmail.indexOf(".", strEmail.indexOf("@")) > strEmail.indexOf("@") + 1) && 
	        // there are characters following the .
		strEmail.length > strEmail.indexOf("."))
		return true;
	return false;
	
	// function checks whether there is more than one @ in the string:
	function onlyOneAtSymbol(strEmail) 
	{
		// position of first @
		var firstAt = strEmail.indexOf("@");
		//position of any other @'s
		var otherAt = strEmail.indexOf("@", firstAt + 1);
		// test for only one @
		if (firstAt != -1 && otherAt == -1)
			return true;
		return false;
	}
}
--

--Ben

________________
Ben Gustafson
Lionbridge Technologies, Inc.
www.lionbridge.com



From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 11:46:25 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 11:46:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email Validator 2
References: <B834EB3B.3E68%xslf@xslf.com>
Message-ID: <OE58nNDm1JlKMDJWgQH0000aee2@hotmail.com>

> From: "Shoshannah Forbes" <xslf at xslf.com>
> Subject: [thelist] Email Validator 2

> >
> > In the above expression, you could make the dot optional by following it
> > with a question mark like this:
> >
> > \.?[A-Za-z0-9]+$/
> >
> > The question mark there means ONLY a single dot is allowed, but the dot
is
> > optional. Change the ? to an asterisk (\.*[A-Za-z0-9]+$) and it becomes
> > "ANY number of dots are allowed, but they are optional". Thus the ? will
> > prevent the validation from passing whatever at whatever..com.
>

> I wonder what it will do with email addresses like
> firstname.lastname at someplace.com

> How would it deal with my home address, which has two dots?
> xslf at netvision.net.il ?

Chris suggested a way to make the original code
(http://tech.irt.org/articles/js049/index.htm) accept addresses that don't
have any dots after the '@'.

Both the original code and Chris's "fix" can handle the examples you gave.

> On the other hand, when I have to enter an address and I don't want to, I
> use example at example.com --> since I know example.com is reserved, I know
> that know one ever will get any email sent there, thus I am not spamming
> some third party.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness (I'm a spoiled person; I usually enter
"billg at microsoft.com" ;-)

Where is it written that 'example' is reserved?





From pampam12 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 12:02:26 2001
From: pampam12 at hotmail.com (Pamela R)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:02:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
Message-ID: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>

Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet 
Explorer.   I am constantly getting a blank page.     The pdfs are 
optimized, and Adobe's web site was no help to me.    In the past I've put 
the files in .zip files to trick the browser into not immediately opening 
the files.   However, my company would rather not use zip files.   Does 
anyone have any other suggestions or workarounds?

much appreciated.
Pam

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Thu Dec  6 12:09:39 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:09:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] returning the row id after an insert (MS SQL 7)
In-Reply-To: <01c17e79$303978e0$4751149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJOEMKCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Rudy, thanks for the info.  I was unaware that this was about as efficient
as it gets, so I guess I'll just leave it as is. =)

Thanks again.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:13 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] returning the row id after an insert (MS SQL 7)
>
>
> >What I'm doing now is inserting new rows into my table and then selecting
> >the row id with a separate sql statement based on the data
> inserted in the
> >prior sql statement.  Isn't there a way to do this in one
> statement rather
> >than 2?  Any help is much appreciated.
>
> hi chris
>
> at least you are doing the second query based on the *data* of the insert,
> rather than using "select max(pkey)"
>
>   see http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010806/010771.html
>
> querying back using data is actually a pretty decent way of doing it,
> because it's compatible with multithreading, and does not require you to
> set the two statements into a transaction block
>
> see also http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010910/013174.html
>
> anyhow, since you are using sql/server, you should look into @@identity
>
> rudy
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu Dec  6 12:16:46 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:16:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] returning the row id after an insert (MS SQL 7)
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA39200412612F@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| anyhow, since you are using sql/server, you should look into 
+| @@identity
+| 

FWIW, SQL2K has some new ways to dance with that last inserted row:

* Scope_Identity() gets the last inserted identity in a scope (function,
procedure, trigger, or batch)

* IDENT_CURRENT('table_name') gets you the last identity for a table in any
scope or connection.

while...

* @@identity gives you the last identity inserted on a connection across
scopes and tables. (meaning, if you have a trigger insert a row, you'll get
that id, not the one for the row that you inserted into the table you
explicitly did so)

<rory alt="8)">



From gte255n at prism.gatech.edu  Thu Dec  6 12:24:50 2001
From: gte255n at prism.gatech.edu (Michael Imamura)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:24:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
In-Reply-To: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0112061820051.27952-100000@acmez.gatech.edu>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Pamela R wrote:
> Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet 
> Explorer.   I am constantly getting a blank page.     The pdfs are 
> optimized, and Adobe's web site was no help to me.    In the past I've put 
> the files in .zip files to trick the browser into not immediately opening 
> the files.   However, my company would rather not use zip files.   Does 
> anyone have any other suggestions or workarounds?

What version of Acrobat Reader are you using?  We had a very similar
problem a while back in which the version of Acrobat Reader that was
preinstalled on all of the company machines was showing blank documents
for some PDFs, but we couldn't find any correllation between PDF creation
settings and blank documents.

Upgrading to the latest version of Acrobat Reader fixed it, but
unfortunately it didn't solve the problem of having the older version
installed on the users' machines :(

          - Michael Imamura   mimamura at resnet.gatech.edu
            LUG at GT Web Guy    http://www.lugatgt.org/




From bill at ilovett.com  Thu Dec  6 12:28:34 2001
From: bill at ilovett.com (Bill Lovett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:28:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
In-Reply-To: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
References: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20011206132857.A2233@rcn.com>

On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 01:04:00PM -0500, Pamela R wrote:
> Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet 
> Explorer.   I am constantly getting a blank page.

You may have tried all of these things already, but have you:

-tried to donwload the pdf from netscape (if that works, the browser
is sending it down properly and the problem is IE)

-reinstalled the latest version of acrobat reader?

-tried to download pdfs from other sites (google)?

Are you on PC or Mac? What kind of server do you have? Are there any
file size restrictions in place on your network (firewall, for
instance)? Is the problem specific to your machine or does it happen
on everyone's?

-bill




From amanda at gawow.com  Thu Dec  6 12:34:48 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:34:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Disable Print???
In-Reply-To: <3C0FA564.A3222468@fayec.com>
Message-ID: <000501c17e85$0f2c5bc0$9cd563d8@75CTT01>

Tell her not to post it to the web. Afterall, abstinence is the safest.

- amanda

> Hi,
> 
> A friend of mine has a client who wants her to disable print 
> for one specific page. I never heard of anything like that 
> before so I thought I should post the question to the list.
> 
> Thanks,
> FayeC




From cameron at barrett.org  Thu Dec  6 12:42:42 2001
From: cameron at barrett.org (Cameron Barrett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:42:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
In-Reply-To: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B83526BA.1CF%cameron@barrett.org>

On 12/6/01 1:04 PM, "Pamela R" <pampam12 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet
> Explorer. I am constantly getting a blank page.

I've run into this problem before. I don't think it's Internet Explorer's
fault. I think it might be the way you are FTP'ing the PDF files.

When I ran into this problem, I worked with a sysadmin who informed me that
there was some issue with the permissions settings on the files I uploaded
to the server. The solution was to scp the files from a local box instead of
FTP'ing them. I don't recall the exact reason, however I recommend you work
with your sysadmin to ensure that the files are on the server with the
appropriate permissions.

-- 
Cameron Barrett
http://www.camworld.com
http://www.barrett.org




From pampam12 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 12:49:02 2001
From: pampam12 at hotmail.com (Pamela R)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:49:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
Message-ID: <F142aAOPpBpcXCXWtji0000418e@hotmail.com>



>
>On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 01:04:00PM -0500, Pamela R wrote:
> > Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet
> > Explorer.   I am constantly getting a blank page.


>>Bill Lovett <bill at ilovett.com> writes:

>You may have tried all of these things already, but have you:
>
>-tried to donwload the pdf from netscape (if that works, the browser
>is sending it down properly and the problem is IE)

Pam:  Yes, it opens no problem in netscape for me.

>-reinstalled the latest version of acrobat reader?

Pam:  I have 4.0, but I have no control over what my users have.

>-tried to download pdfs from other sites (google)?
Pam:  yes, don't have a problem.

>Are you on PC or Mac? What kind of server do you have? Are there any
>file size restrictions in place on your network (firewall, for
>instance)? Is the problem specific to your machine or does it happen
>on everyone's?
Pam:   I'm on a pc, but I know alot of our users are on the mac.   And no we 
shouldn't have any file size restrictions.    Definitely not specific to my 
machine.   I think it's a common problem actually.   Any other ideas?  
thanks!



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From susanhw at webcastle.com  Thu Dec  6 12:56:30 2001
From: susanhw at webcastle.com (Susan Wallace)
Date: Thu Dec  6 12:56:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
In-Reply-To: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011206125353.00bd0ce0@webcastle.com>

Hi Pam,

I have seen this problem consistently with the Acrobat Reader plugin and IE 
on a Mac. (System 8.6 and higher). The workaround that we use in our case 
is to have the user right-click (Click and hold on a Mac) and choose "Save 
Target As". Once the file has been downloaded to their system, they can 
double-click it to open in Reader (not the plugin) and all is usually well. 
This is where we discover if they actually do have the latest version 
installed. If that works for them, we suggest that they follow Adobe's 
guidelines for removing the plugin from their IE installation, and 
re-installing it. That has worked in some cases. Also, to add more bumps, 
AOL users have to manually copy the plugin to their AOL plugins folder - 
and I have seen this be the case where they were using the "AOL browser" 
AND when using AOL as a dialup and opening IE independently. (If that makes 
sense - I don't use AOL so may not have that terminology correct)

HTH!
Susan Wallace

At 12:04 PM 12/6/01, you wrote:
>Hi all, I have been having a tough time with PDFs opening in Internet 
>Explorer.




From susanhw at webcastle.com  Thu Dec  6 13:10:03 2001
From: susanhw at webcastle.com (Susan Wallace)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:10:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0112061820051.27952-100000@acmez.gatech.edu>
References: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011206130007.00bd2ef0@webcastle.com>

<snip>

>preinstalled on all of the company machines was showing blank documents
>for some PDFs, but we couldn't find any correllation between PDF creation
>settings and blank documents.
>
>Upgrading to the latest version of Acrobat Reader fixed it,

It has been my experience that if you create a pdf with Acrobat version 5, 
and attempt to read it with Reader version 4 that you will either get a 
blank document, or the images in your document will not display. I have not 
seen any way to save to an earlier version, so in our case, our Members are 
required to have the latest version of the Reader.

Fortunately for some, we created 99% of our 1G of pdf files in Acrobat 
version 4, but recently found that there were some features in Acrobat 
version 5 that would allow us to do more with the content for our members, 
so we upgraded in-house, and now recommend the latest plugin to Members.

We recently distributed some of our content on CD, and due to Adobe 
agreements, were not allowed to distribute versions of Acrobat older than 
version 4. Several people who have that CD have used it, along with the new 
version of Acrobat and have not complained about system problems, problems 
reading old pdf files or anything. So far it has not caused us trouble to 
require an upgrade.

I would suggest that if you have an older version of Acrobat, and don't 
want to force your users to upgrade, then use the older version to create 
your PDF files until you are pretty sure that most of your visitors have 
the latest plugin.

Sorry to ramble... hope this helps.

Susan Wallace




From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Dec  6 13:18:40 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:18:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? - was [F2S Announcement]
In-Reply-To: <3C0F98AB.4060108@members.evolt.org> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Dec 06, 2001 10:11:23 AM
Message-ID: <200112061920.MAA02748@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Daniel J. Cody writes:

> > I'd really like to play with Perl too ... 
> > 
> > Is there a short article or note or test file somewhere with a
> > step-by-step, ["make the shebang line look like this", "then store the
> > file in a directory called that"], that could get me going in Perl?
> 
> hrmm. i'm not the biggest perl guy, but maybe garrett c, anthony,
> dean, or any of the other perl gurus can point some out :)


- For the shebang line, it's the typical #!/usr/bin/perl -w

- Depending on how Dan configures your access, put .cgi on the end of
  your file, make sure that it is world executable, and you should be
  good.  If Dan restricts you to running CGI out of a certain
  directory, he'll have to let you know.  (Oh, everything needs to be
  in the public_html directory but that should be obvious.)


For a test file:

------------------------[ Cut Here ]----------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl -w

$| = 1;

use strict;

print <<END;
Content-type: text/html

<html>
<head><title>Hello World</title></head>

<body>

<h1>Hello World</h1>

</body>
</html>
END

exit(0);
------------------------[ Cut Here ]----------------------------------

Save it as helloworld.cgi in your public_html directory, chmod o+rw,
and then access it at:

   http://members.evolt.org/user/helloworld.cgi

Hope that helps,
Dean



From dmiller at mcc.ca  Thu Dec  6 13:20:22 2001
From: dmiller at mcc.ca (MILLER David R.)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:20:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] PERL? 
Message-ID: <A28ADDA7BF5CD411BB1D0008C79F86CC6BB7F6@mcc_mail.mcc.ca>

>Is there a short article or note or test file somewhere with a
>step-by-step, ["make the shebang line look like this", "then store the
>file in a directory called that"], that could get me going in Perl?
>
>{As usual - I've already bought several books on Perl ... read a few of
>them ... and I can get some baby stuff working in ActiveState Perl from
>the command line -- but I have yet to get a net example working.}

http://www.netcat.co.uk/rob/perl/win32perltut.html
http://www.northbound-train.com/perlwin32.html
[No warranty is expressed or implied.]

---------------FROM-------------------
David R. Miller
Manager, Computer-Based Testing
Medical Council of Canada
dmiller at mcc.ca
(613) 521-6012
(613) 521-9722 (fax)
-----------------------------------------




From g1notami at zoominternet.net  Thu Dec  6 13:22:15 2001
From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D.Bruce Saurer)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:22:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] PDFs & Internet Explorer
References: <F2289guA8M6XQQez1en000032e6@hotmail.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20011206130007.00bd2ef0@webcastle.com>
Message-ID: <016b01c17e8b$b1ba1200$657ba8c0@zoominternet.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Wallace" <susanhw at webcastle.com>

> <snip>
> >preinstalled on all of the company machines was showing blank documents
> >for some PDFs, but we couldn't find any correllation between PDF creation
> >settings and blank documents.
> >
> >Upgrading to the latest version of Acrobat Reader fixed it,


> It has been my experience that if you create a pdf with Acrobat version 5,
> and attempt to read it with Reader version 4 that you will either get a
> blank document, or the images in your document will not display. I have
not
> seen any way to save to an earlier version, so in our case, our Members
are
> required to have the latest version of the Reader.
<snip>

If you're using Distiller to create the .pdfs under "Job Options/General"
you can choose to create the .pdf with compatability back to v3.
This may be obvious but, are you transfering the files ftp-binary mode?

hth,
bruce
g1notami at zoominternet.net






From ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com  Thu Dec  6 13:26:48 2001
From: ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:26:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
Message-ID: <3C0FC716.3EAAC3AB@lionbridge.com>

> > From: "George Dillon  <> Evolt!" <evolt at georgedillon.com>
> [...]
> > I've read recently that using server-side browser-sniffing to keep
> > code lean by tailoring it for each browser's quirks is NOT 
> a good idea
> > because of web caches.  The undesirable scenario is that a web cache
> > stores the page designed for WinMSIE5 (e.g.) and then delivers THAT
> > verison when requested by a user with MacNN4... resulting 
> in a layout
> > mess for that particular user.
> > 
> > Is this a real issue or have I misunderstood how web caches work?
> > 
> > [Note: I am not talking about client browser caches but the server
> > caches created by some ISPs.]
> 
> this is absolutely a concern... think of proxies at large 
> organizations... they often cache pages, and depending on who 
> requested it, that's what you see...

I'm not sure if I follow how web caching would alter the HTTP User Agent string that a
browser sends to the Web server. Do all clients connecting via a proxy server identify
themselves as the first browser that requested the page they are requesting?

--Ben



From andregaulin at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 13:33:00 2001
From: andregaulin at hotmail.com (andre gaulin)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:33:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
Message-ID: <F90o9qareZEUPMYNO4J00023684@hotmail.com>

hey everyone...

i need to help my newly implimented QA department get up to speed and fit 
them into our development process.  Our new QA person used to be a developer 
and has moved into the QA department.  He was just hired and is fresh to the 
company.  A real full time QA process is new to this team and i was 
wondering if anyone had any good resources, processes, best practices, 
articles, etc. that might help everyone get up to speed and into the idea 
that testing is a major part of the dev cycle?

As always, your help is greatly appreciated...

Andre

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Dec  6 13:36:59 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:36:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Disable Print???
References: <000501c17e85$0f2c5bc0$9cd563d8@75CTT01>
Message-ID: <001101c17e8d$63e86e30$080a000a@HEISENBERG>

Amand's right. You can do a very limited prevention by creating a PDF and
disabling print for it, but that won't stop screen captures or any number of
other simple efforts.

Perhaps there's another solution. What's the reason for allowing visitors to
see the info, but not print it?

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Erickson" <amanda at gawow.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Disable Print???


> Tell her not to post it to the web. Afterall, abstinence is the safest.
>
> - amanda
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > A friend of mine has a client who wants her to disable print
> > for one specific page. I never heard of anything like that
> > before so I thought I should post the question to the list.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > FayeC
>




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Dec  6 13:40:32 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:40:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
In-Reply-To: <20011206185206.817FC8E5@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207010558.05be8a68@203.197.12.4>

At 12:22 AM 12/7/2001, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org typed these words:
>No, not at all.  I use directv DSL (formerly telocity) and have a web
>server at home.  So long as it isn't commercial and your usage doesn't
>impact their system, they let you do what you want.  I don't think I could
>handle a 1GB download max per month.

Dude, I live in INDIA (hence the subject line).    ;)

The good thing is that if I exceed my quota, I have to pay more, but my 
connection doesn't get snapped or anything like that. :)

I'm a download freak, so 34 MB/day isn't too much for me. I expect to use 
about twice that, and now that I'm on theforum, thesite, and admin, even 
email is chewing up the bandwidth ;)

Cheers,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
madhu at members.evolt.org
Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com





From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Thu Dec  6 13:47:58 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:47:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
In-Reply-To: <F90o9qareZEUPMYNO4J00023684@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011206133706.03eea710@mail.imaginuity.com>

On 01:34 PM 12/6/2001, andre gaulin said to me:
>i need to help my newly implimented QA department get up to speed and fit 
>them into our development process.  Our new QA person used to be a 
>developer and has moved into the QA department.  He was just hired and is 
>fresh to the company.  A real full time QA process is new to this team and 
>i was wondering if anyone had any good resources, processes, best 
>practices, articles, etc. that might help everyone get up to speed and 
>into the idea that testing is a major part of the dev cycle?

Ooh ooh.  One that I have answers to. :)

I'll toss it in a tip for future reference:

<tip type="Quality Assurance (QA)" author="Ben Dyer">
Here are some quality assurance links you can use.  Some apply to software, 
some apply only to web applications, but many of the principles are universal.

http://www.kaner.com/
http://www.kaner.com/pdfs/bugadvoc.pdf
http://www.qacity.com/
http://www.qaforums.com/
http://www.sqe.com/
http://www.stickyminds.com/
http://www.veritest.com/testers'network/testing_considerations1.asp
http://www.veritest.com/testers'network/Web_testing1-1.asp
http://www.veritest.com/testers'network/Web_testing21.asp
http://www.testingcraft.com/
http://www.testingcraft.com/techniques.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testingcraft-discuss/
http://www.sqe.com/stqepublishing/webtesting.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnduwon/html/d5dplyover.asp
http://www.softwareqatest.com/qatweb1.html
</tip>

Hope this helps.  I know these links have helped me.

--Ben


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus.
-----------------------------------------------------------------




From bill at ilovett.com  Thu Dec  6 13:48:48 2001
From: bill at ilovett.com (Bill Lovett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:48:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGENOCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
References: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHEEIJCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com> <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGENOCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20011206144912.A2542@rcn.com>

On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:08:49AM -0000, Norman Beresford wrote:

> It's not a problem with default documents, as I've tried requesting specific
> .asp documents.  Sorry should have mentioned that it's IIS/PWS running on
> win2kPro

In the Internet Services manager, make sure the folder that contains
the asp files doesn't have a regular folder icon-- if they're in a
subfolder off the website root the folder should have an open box
icon, indicating that a virtual application has been created. Without
creating an application (properties->Directory tab->Application
Settings area-->Create), you'll get no asp love. If the files are at
the root of the site, though, the problem may be more serious. Try
going into add/remove programs, click add/remove windows components,
then uninstall/reinstall IIS to try to get things back to their
default state.

Also try to test out a static html page that you've renamed with an
asp extension to make sure the pages are being served out, then try
dealing with asp pages that actually have a purpose in life.

-bill



From elfur at elfur.is  Thu Dec  6 13:50:14 2001
From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:50:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207010558.05be8a68@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <0d4101c17e8f$ea40c160$0100a8c0@DWARFS>

From: "Madhu Menon" <webguru at vsnl.net>

| At 12:22 AM 12/7/2001, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org typed these words:
| >No, not at all.  I use directv DSL (formerly telocity) and have a web
| >server at home.  So long as it isn't commercial and your usage doesn't
| >impact their system, they let you do what you want.  I don't think I
could
| >handle a 1GB download max per month.
|
| The good thing is that if I exceed my quota, I have to pay more, but my
| connection doesn't get snapped or anything like that. :)

that's the same in iceland as well, but you can choose from 100MB, 500MB,
1GB, 1,5GB or 2GB download max per month.
And one provider has it only of foreign download (from the big bad world :)

cheers
*the icelandic one*




From cameron at barrett.org  Thu Dec  6 13:52:44 2001
From: cameron at barrett.org (Cameron Barrett)
Date: Thu Dec  6 13:52:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
In-Reply-To: <F90o9qareZEUPMYNO4J00023684@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B835372E.1DF%cameron@barrett.org>

On 12/6/01 2:34 PM, "andre gaulin" <andregaulin at hotmail.com> wrote:

> i need to help my newly implimented QA department get up to speed and fit
> them into our development process.  Our new QA person used to be a developer
> and has moved into the QA department.  He was just hired and is fresh to the
> company.  A real full time QA process is new to this team and i was
> wondering if anyone had any good resources, processes, best practices,
> articles, etc. that might help everyone get up to speed and into the idea
> that testing is a major part of the dev cycle?

I have found the following sites to be very useful:

Derek Sisson's Philosophe: A thoughtful approach to web site quality.
http://www.philosophe.com/

QA City::
http: //www.qacity.com/

-- 
Cameron Barrett
http://www.camworld.com
http://www.barrett.org




From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 14:11:38 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:11:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Evolt survey
References: <3C0B99AA.8040206@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C0FD0DA.8050109@members.evolt.org>

Hi again -

Just a reminder that the evolt.org survey is still running and we 
*still* want your feedback! So if you haven't taken the survey yet, 
please take a couple minutes out of your day(its quick!) and let your 
thoughts on evolt.org be known :)

If you've already taken the survey, please disregard, and thanks! If you 
haven't here's a reminder..

You can find out more details on the survey at http://evolt.org/survey 
or hop directly to it by following 
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=5634188862

Thanks again for your continued support, and helping to continue to make 
evolt.org the premier web development community on the 'net!

.djc.


Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> Hi folks -
> 
> Evolt.org needs your help! Although evolt.org has always been a place 
> for web developers *by* web developers, we'd like to solicit some 
> feedback from the general evolt membership to see how we're doing, new 
> features you may like to see, or suggestions you may have to continue 
> evolt.org's place as the premier web development community on the 
> Internet. With that, I'm happy to announce the first ever evolt.org survey!
> 
> Have your say - evolt.org survey:
> http://www.evolt.org/article/announce/27/18041/index.html
> 
> What we're looking for is some honest feedback from you the people that 
> make evolt.org what it is. Although we'd like to think that everything 
> is perfect with our community, thats obviously not the case.. And who 
> better to let us know how to make it better than the people who use it?
> 
> The survey is only about 40 questions long and shouldn't take more than 
> 5 minutes of your time. However, that 5 minutes will go a long ways 
> towards making evolt.org a better place, so I'd highly encourage *each* 
> of you to make your opinions known and take the survey!!
> 
> Thanks to everyone on theforum list( 
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/theforum ) for their hard work, 
> and a big thanks to evolt.org member Ryan Finley for his *very* generous 
> support of evolt.org through the use his survey website, 
> http://www.surveymonkey.com :)
> 
> Thanks again for your feedback and continued support of evolt.org, and 
> feel free to forward this on to any relevant parties :)
> 
> .djc.
> - evolt.org grand poo-bah -





From persist1 at io.com  Thu Dec  6 14:21:26 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:21:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
In-Reply-To: <20011206163145.60773.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112061413340.24900-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, E?l wrote:

> Ben Henick,

Just "Ben," thanks.

> I believe you are misreading the term *unlimited*.

You may well be right.

> Bet your TOS has a blivet that says within reasonable
> use or something along those lines.  Try creating a
> program that uses 100% of your d/l and u/l bandwidth
> 24 hours a day 7 days a week for a month or two.
> Heck, make one that even uses 25% of it.  Bet you get
> a call and a cancel from your ISP.  Your ISP pays for

I don't doubt it, either.  Every ISP AUP I've ever read is loaded with
"reasonable use" provisions.

> every bit you send/receive in peering  and transit
> costs.  The reason they can offer unlimited is because
> they expect reasonable residential use where you line
> is idle or <10% use the majority of the time (ie
> sleeping/work/you aren't using bandwidth when you are
> viewing a page (as it is already d/l'ed).  1GB per
> month does seem kind of low though.

...And again, the "unlimited" datum I gave in my previous message was a
quote from what the *telco* told me.  Dialup ISP's are typically VERY
clear about throughput restrictions, just as in Madhu's situation.

Now, for the math:

((86400 / 4) * 192K) == (21600 * 192K) == 4.1472GB

Egad, that's a lot.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 14:23:26 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:23:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
Message-ID: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>

Hello,

I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
archives but couldn't find anything.

Thanks,

/chris






From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 14:25:57 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:25:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
References: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEKENNCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <OE68LH0frViGFOHjhhy0001024d@hotmail.com>

> From: "Norman Beresford" <n.beresford at anansi.co.uk>
> Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
>

> Hi all
>
> I've got IIS/PWS installed on a laptop, which we want to use to give some
> demonstrations on.  THe problem is that IIS doesn't appear to be serving
ASP
> pages at all.  It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requests
are
> just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to move.
> The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log and
> it's showing the ASP service as having started.
>

I had a similar problem with PWS (Win98). The server could serve normal
("static") HTML files, but when I asked for an ASP file, I got nothing _and_
the server hang (it couldn't serve any more pages). I had to restart Windows
to have the server up again.

Does this description look familiar?

Finally I solved the problem: I installed "Microsoft Data Access
Componenets":

http://www.microsoft.com/data/

A friend of mine had this problem too. I directed him to install MDAC, and
it solved his problem.






From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Thu Dec  6 14:26:18 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:26:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJMEMOCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

FWIW, if you use Debian you can apt-get all 3 simultaneously and they will
all be configured and setup with respect to each other (even makes apache
conf file entries!).  For RedHat I'm not sure if something like this
exists...

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:26 PM
> To: TheList
> Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
> Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
> through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
> I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> archives but couldn't find anything.
>
> Thanks,
>
> /chris
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Dec  6 14:32:24 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:32:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEKENNCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
References: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206123212.01a9ac78@baratta.com>

At 01:55 AM 12/6/2001, you wrote:
>Hi all
>
>I've got IIS/PWS installed on a laptop, which we want to use to give some
>demonstrations on.  THe problem is that IIS doesn't appear to be serving ASP
>pages at all.  It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requests are
>just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to move.
>The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log and
>it's showing the ASP service as having started.

What URL are you using? Does it say file: or http:??

Try this: http://localhost/test.asp

Make sure that localhost is in the "hosts" table. c:\winnt\system32\drivers\ect

127.0.0.1       localhost

----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Thu Dec  6 14:39:57 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:39:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <007e01c17e8c$a5119a40$0100007f@mar>

No, you must use an individual rpm for each programm. As for Windows,
Apache,
PHP4 and MySQL are also different install binaries. As a metter of fact
these are quit different projects, carried out by different teams.


> Hello,
>
> I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
> Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
> through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
> I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> archives but couldn't find anything.
>
> Thanks,
>
> /chris
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Thu Dec  6 14:50:30 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:50:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>; from chris@fuzzylizard.com on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:26:28PM -0500
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>

Building from source is not that hard, what is the problem you're
running into?

The install documentation for php is quite thorough on the enitre
process.

-d

On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:26:28PM -0500, Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
> Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
> through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
> I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> archives but couldn't find anything.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> /chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Thu Dec  6 14:55:41 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Thu Dec  6 14:55:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJMEMOCBAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <009a01c17e8f$8dba3b60$0100007f@mar>

Chris,
thanks. I didn't know about it (I use RedHat for Linux). But if it is done
for Debian why not to use rpms for ResHat  as well. Do they differ so much?
Is this three-in-one paccage downloaded from Debian's site?
> FWIW, if you use Debian you can apt-get all 3 simultaneously and they will
> all be configured and setup with respect to each other (even makes apache
> conf file entries!).  For RedHat I'm not sure if something like this
> exists...
>
> Chris Blessing
> webguy at mail.rit.edu
> http://www.330i.net
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:26 PM
> > To: TheList
> > Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
> > Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
> > through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
> > I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> > mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> > archives but couldn't find anything.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > /chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From adrian at aussiebidder.com  Thu Dec  6 15:00:13 2001
From: adrian at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:00:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <OE23OwYEIEktho3sD1I000032d0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPIEIPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>

Ok...got the HTML email thing working a treat.  Next question would be
though, if a mail client cant view html or html is turned off, how can I
ensure they get something that makes sense instead of all my mark up?

Question 2 is; I use small images as borders for forms etc in frames.  The
corner images are fine.  The top and bottom  images are stretched between
the corners and work fine in NS and IE (width=100%).  The side images are
the problem.  Using height=100%.  They work in IE but not in NS.  Any ideas
on how I can make it work for NS.

Thanks Again

Regards

Adrian Fischer





From matt at sweetillusions.org  Thu Dec  6 15:16:33 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:16:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPIEIPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
Message-ID: <CAEFLFNOCBLBCFNENAIGOEEPEPAA.matt@sweetillusions.org>


set the images on the side to be table background images and then place clear
pixels in the <td> tags to adjust height.

in general, i'd never rely on a height attribute.

hth,
m

:: -----Original Message-----
:: From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
:: [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Fischer
:: Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:05 PM
:: To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
:: Subject: RE: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
::
::
:: Ok...got the HTML email thing working a treat.  Next question would be
:: though, if a mail client cant view html or html is turned off, how can I
:: ensure they get something that makes sense instead of all my mark up?
::
:: Question 2 is; I use small images as borders for forms etc in frames.  The
:: corner images are fine.  The top and bottom  images are stretched between
:: the corners and work fine in NS and IE (width=100%).  The side images are
:: the problem.  Using height=100%.  They work in IE but not in NS.  Any ideas
:: on how I can make it work for NS.
::
:: Thanks Again
::
:: Regards
::
:: Adrian Fischer
::
::
::
:: ---------------------------------------
:: For unsubscribe and other options, including
:: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
:: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
::




From allie at pajunas.com  Thu Dec  6 15:25:07 2001
From: allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:25:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <007e01c17e8c$a5119a40$0100007f@mar>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <007e01c17e8c$a5119a40$0100007f@mar>
Message-ID: <20011206211812.GA93231@pajunas.com>

> As for Windows, Apache,
> PHP4 and MySQL are also different install binaries. As a metter of fact

Actually, it is worth mentioning that under Windows you can use PHPTriad
to install these three in one binary without additional apache
configuration.

http://www.phpgeek.com

Thanks,
Allie Micka
pajunas interactive, inc.
reusable web components and hosting
http://pajunas.com



From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Dec  6 15:31:21 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:31:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <3805A2E6-EA91-11D5-B55C-003065C48B4C@trans-city.com>

I'll throw in a recommendation for the NuSphere installer. You can 
download it free from their site after signing in. Very slick and easy.

www.nusphere.com -- click on DOWNLOAD.

FYI -- NuSphere isn't the favorite of some in the OSS community right 
now, including the folks at MySQL AB.

Also, their PHP IDE, PHPEd, is really, really good.


-j


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 03:26 PM, Chris Johnston wrote:

> I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single install rpm for
> Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried working my way
> through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be successfull. So,
> I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> archives but couldn't find anything.




From raymond.simplice at bristolwest.com  Thu Dec  6 15:35:55 2001
From: raymond.simplice at bristolwest.com (Raymond Simplice)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:35:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] System variable
Message-ID: <4881C2CEC543D511B6D900105A7381FFBE684A@xchange.bristolwest.com>

Hello,

Java 2 question.  I am trying an Environment system variable, set through
Control Panel/System.  I used System.getProperties()/getProperty(...) to
read my new variable, but it doesn't appear on the list.  Have anyone done
this before?  any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu Dec  6 15:39:55 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:39:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
 <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <p05100305b835915f379e@[192.168.1.2]>

>Building from source is not that hard, what is the problem you're
>running into?
>
>The install documentation for php is quite thorough on the enitre
>process.

True, but the mysql configure options can be a bit tricky. Even if 
you want to build your own, it might be best to download mysql as a 
binary rpm from mysql.com for your intel architecture. Install MySQL 
first. Make sure it's working. Then move on to installing apache and 
php.

Configure apache with at least: --enable-module=rewrite --enable-shared=rewrite

Then make, and make install. That'll get DSO support up, which makes 
PHP installation a breeze.

Configure PHP: --with-mysql=/path/to/mysql --with-apxs=/path/to/apache/bin/

Make, make install, and follow the instructions in the INSTALL 
document re: copying the php.ini file around, and checking that the 
php 4 stuff is uncommented in the httpd.conf file.

The main thing is to do it in the above order, well, I guess mysql / 
apache could be swapped around. The second thing is to make sure DSO 
support is working. I've had problems with the =max options for DSO, 
just get mod_rewrite in there and you'll be good to go.

Also, you do want to point to the directory containing mysql, and the 
directory containing apxs in the PHP configure options. If you don't 
with mysql then you're stuck with PHP's static libraries, which is 
not so good. If you don't with apxs, well, you might be lucky, but 
the OSes I use always seem to need that directory to be specified.

Best of luck
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 15:43:44 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:43:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <1007675211.4287.2.camel@cr283847-a>

I have finally found a tutorial that actually contains all the steps in
setting everything up. The biggest problem that I was having was that
none of the tutorials so far showed how to set MySQL up to run
automatically when Linux boots. All they showed was how to compile it
and install it, the rest was left up to you.

However, www.sitepoint.com has an amazing tutorial that covers
everything in terms of setting up MySQL on a Linux machine.

Thanks everyone, binaries aren't really that hard as long as all the
steps are listed.

/chris

On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 15:52, Dave Preston wrote:
> Building from source is not that hard, what is the problem you're
> running into?
> 
> The install documentation for php is quite thorough on the enitre
> process.
> 
> -d





From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu Dec  6 15:44:38 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:44:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
In-Reply-To: <p05100305b835915f379e@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
 <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
 <p05100305b835915f379e@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <p05100307b835969c72b9@[192.168.1.2]>

>Even if you want to build your own, it might be best to download 
>mysql as a binary rpm from mysql.com for your intel architecture.

That's ambiguous: even if you want to build your own apache / php 
system, don't feel too embarrassed about downloading mysql as a 
binary. The max builds are quite nice too, download one and have a 
play with BDB tables, etc... Even building a standard mysql can be 
hairy if you want a decent level of performance (ie, compile, test, 
reconfigure, compile, test, reconfigure, compile test.... ). They've 
already done this work, so why do it again?

HTH
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  6 15:47:42 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Dec  6 15:47:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
In-Reply-To: <3C0FC716.3EAAC3AB@lionbridge.com>
Message-ID: <200112062147.fB6Lld0E020481@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Ben Gustafson <ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com>
[...] 
> I'm not sure if I follow how web caching would alter the HTTP User
> Agent string that a browser sends to the Web server. Do all clients
> connecting via a proxy server identify themselves as the first browser
> that requested the page they are requesting?

no, it doesn't alter the string... this scenario:

1. NN user goes to foo.com...
2. proxy intercepts request, sends request to foo.com...
3. foo.com responds with NN-specific code...
4. proxy caches page, passes to NN user...
5. IE user goes to foo.com...
6. proxy intercepts request, hands back cached version...
7. IE user gets code error, because it was NN page...

is that any clearer?




From ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com  Thu Dec  6 16:13:32 2001
From: ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:13:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
Message-ID: <3C0FEE2B.E46A3FB9@lionbridge.com>

> > From: Ben Gustafson <ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com>
> [...]
> > I'm not sure if I follow how web caching would alter the HTTP User
> > Agent string that a browser sends to the Web server. Do all clients
> > connecting via a proxy server identify themselves as the 
> first browser
> > that requested the page they are requesting?
> 
> no, it doesn't alter the string... this scenario:
> 
> 1. NN user goes to foo.com...
> 2. proxy intercepts request, sends request to foo.com...
> 3. foo.com responds with NN-specific code...
> 4. proxy caches page, passes to NN user...
> 5. IE user goes to foo.com...
> 6. proxy intercepts request, hands back cached version...
> 7. IE user gets code error, because it was NN page...
> 
> is that any clearer?

Yup. Thanks, aardvark. BTW, this is a bit of a bummer, since sending a page tailored to
the browser is preferable to sending a page full of JavaScript browser detection "ifs".
Maybe forking over the $$$ for BrowserHawk is a good solution...

--Ben



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 16:22:37 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:22:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,
 Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>

Well, so far I have MySQL installed and it runs, however, I am having
problems getting it to run when RedHat boots up. Anyone got any
suggestions.

thanks...

/chris




From databarn at airmail.net  Thu Dec  6 16:25:01 2001
From: databarn at airmail.net (databarn)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:25:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSN-less conundrum and a lost reference . . .
Message-ID: <mS/16C6zu-0003DPS@covert.black-ring.iadfw.net>

 . . . is driving me to drink [more].

I'm looking for a solution that I could swear appeared on this list, but no can find it.  

Got a database app using Access97 or Access2K, depending upon requirements from the requestor - he hasn't decided yet.  Low traffic, and low connectivity requirements, so Access is ok for now.  Problem is that I cannot seem to manage a DSN-less connection to Access.  Have no control over the server, just have read-write-create-delete access to a folder on the web server - NT4/IIS4.

There was a thread here, I think, a few months back that addressed two points:
a)  what permissions need to be requested from the server admin; and
b)  if no server changes allowed, what needs to be done to get ASP page to talk to an AccessXX database in the same - or child - directory on the web server.

I may be mixing threads in my memory, but I _know_ there was an answer to part 'b' of the questoin - I just cannot find it.  Does anyone recall the reference?  Would appreciate a jolt of the grey matter.


Make a good day . . .
			 . . . barn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Starfish haven't got brains.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 	




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu Dec  6 16:26:28 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:26:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
 of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
 <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
 <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>

hi Chris!

in your mysql directory there'll be a folder called 'scripts'. look 
in there for a file called 'mysql.server'. read it with 'more 
mysql.server' in one virtual terminal / window and do what it says in 
the other. :)

basically, you need to copy it to your /etc/rc.d folder (or similar, 
depends on OS), and make symbolic links to rc0.d/S01mysql and 
rc3.d/S80mysql. sorry, i've probably got the exact names wrong as i'm 
working from memory. :)

HTH
andrew


>Well, so far I have MySQL installed and it runs, however, I am having
>problems getting it to run when RedHat boots up. Anyone got any
>suggestions.
>
>thanks...
>
>/chris

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Thu Dec  6 16:34:22 2001
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:34:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
References: <3C0FEE2B.E46A3FB9@lionbridge.com>
Message-ID: <3C0FF315.7050401@yahoo.ca>

Ben Gustafson wrote:

> Yup. Thanks, aardvark. BTW, this is a bit of a bummer, since sending a page tailored to

I ran into this a couple of times with my own site which serves up two 
completely different pages for the v.4 and below browsers and the v.5+ 
browsers.

It was only really an issue with IE because you couldn't force it to 
call the latest page (thankfully my ISP seems to have improved its 
caching), so I've stuck with it.

Despite the fact it cancels out the benefits of caching (i.e., faster 
download times for the user), wouldn't putting:
   <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache">
in the head solve these server-side issues?

-- 
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From mike.king at redroom.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 16:51:48 2001
From: mike.king at redroom.co.uk (Mike King)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:51:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSN-less conundrum and a lost reference . . .
In-Reply-To: <mS/16C6zu-0003DPS@covert.black-ring.iadfw.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206224532.03416d50@pop3.norton.antivirus>

databarn,

>a)  what permissions need to be requested from the server admin; and

As long as the SERVERNAME_IUSR (Anon web user) account has got change 
access (RWX dodgy unless the point below is done.) to the folder you're 
cool and the gang  ;)

For security get the db in a folder above (ie higher up the dir tree) the 
html folder.

html --> d:\sites\joesite\public_html\
db --> d:\sites\joesite\databases\

>b)  if no server changes allowed, what needs to be done to get ASP page to 
>talk to an AccessXX database in the same - or child - directory on the web 
>server.

Whatever is done, you'll need to use a DNS less connection string. Here's a 
great article about them, which one to use and why. 
<http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/063099-1.shtml>

Cheers
mk




From pmeeks at email.msn.com  Thu Dec  6 16:56:10 2001
From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Pat Meeks)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:56:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
References: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEKENNCHAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk> <OE68LH0frViGFOHjhhy0001024d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c17ea9$72b630c0$774983d0@shadow>

I can't believe it...I am having EXACTLY the same problem and I'm in a
panic! Win98SE, PWS. I installed MDAC 2.5, but that didn't help. I ran the
MS components checker and found:

Item Name,Item Type,ErrorString,Status
MTXDM.DLL,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '1999.9.3421.3' Got
'1999.6.902.0',Error
MSVCRT.DLL,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '6.10.8637.0' Got
'6.00.8797.0',Error
STDOLE2.TLB,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '2.40.4512' Got
'2.40.4514',Error
ASYCFILT.DLL,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '2.40.4512' Got
'2.40.4514',Error
OLEPRO32.DLL,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '5.0.4512' Got
'5.0.4514',Error
OLEAUT32.DLL,File,Field 'FileVersion' mismatch: Expect '2.40.4512' Got
'2.40.4514',Error
MSADCO.DLL,COM,Unknown Class ID =
{9381d8f1-0288-11d0-9501-00aa00b911a5},Warning

I am out of my league (actually, out of my universe) on this. Could any of
the above be contributing to this? Any ideas how to fix this? Any help is
appreciated...everyone is yelling at me.

Thanks, Pat pmeeks at msn.com

> >It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requestsare
> > just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to
move.
> > The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log
and
> > it's showing the ASP service as having started.
> >
>
> I had a similar problem with PWS (Win98). The server could serve normal
> ("static") HTML files, but when I asked for an ASP file, I got nothing
_and_
> the server hang (it couldn't serve any more pages). I had to restart
Windows
> to have the server up again.
.> Finally I solved the problem: I installed "Microsoft Data Access
> Componenets":
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/data/






From wade at runstrong.com  Thu Dec  6 16:57:49 2001
From: wade at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Thu Dec  6 16:57:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSN-less conundrum and a lost reference . . .
In-Reply-To: <mS/16C6zu-0003DPS@covert.black-ring.iadfw.net>
Message-ID: <B8353838.12E14%wade@runstrong.com>

For (a), they could create a DSN for you. Also, ideally, your .mdb file will
not be in a directory with anonymous read permission.

For (b), is your connection string right? Check out
http://www.able-consulting.com/ado_conn.htm

on 12/6/01 2:26 PM, databarn at databarn at airmail.net wrote:

> . . . is driving me to drink [more].
> 
> I'm looking for a solution that I could swear appeared on this list, but no
> can find it.  
> 
> Got a database app using Access97 or Access2K, depending upon requirements
> from the requestor - he hasn't decided yet.  Low traffic, and low connectivity
> requirements, so Access is ok for now.  Problem is that I cannot seem to
> manage a DSN-less connection to Access.  Have no control over the server, just
> have read-write-create-delete access to a folder on the web server - NT4/IIS4.
> 
> There was a thread here, I think, a few months back that addressed two points:
> a)  what permissions need to be requested from the server admin; and
> b)  if no server changes allowed, what needs to be done to get ASP page to
> talk to an AccessXX database in the same - or child - directory on the web
> server.
> 
> I may be mixing threads in my memory, but I _know_ there was an answer to part
> 'b' of the questoin - I just cannot find it.  Does anyone recall the
> reference?  Would appreciate a jolt of the grey matter.
> 
> 
> Make a good day . . .
> . . . barn
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Starfish haven't got brains.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 17:02:08 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:02:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
In-Reply-To: <3C0FEE2B.E46A3FB9@lionbridge.com>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHOEGDFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ben,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ben Gustafson
>
> BTW, this is a bit of a bummer, since sending a page
> tailored to the browser is preferable to sending a page
> full of JavaScript browser detection "ifs".
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

and doing object/method support detection is preferable to both methods
above and isn't affected by this proxy caching scenario.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Maybe forking over the $$$ for BrowserHawk is a good
> solution...
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i wouldn't suggest it.  browserhawk will be stricken by this problem every
bit as much.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From angie at vertebrate.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 17:05:02 2001
From: angie at vertebrate.co.uk (Angie Ahl)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:05:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
In-Reply-To: <200112062147.fB6Lld0E020481@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200112062147.fB6Lld0E020481@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <a05101011b835a478663d@[10.0.1.2]>

Ok

a few questions come to mind over this.

First I have witnessed this proxying the wrong version myself, and 
with my own sites, but since I started doing dynamically driven sites 
with a sessionID style of working I've not seen it.

This is presumably because the search arguments are changing each 
time (the session id is different for each user) so the proxy cannot 
conclude that it is the same url as before.

However. Cookies don't change the url (the header, but not the url), 
and yet I've noticed that I've not seen this problem with cookie 
driven sites either. Which leads me to believe that any change to the 
URL or header will force the request to go all the way to the server 
and not get intercepted/stored by the proxy.

However I'd like to be certain how things work as I rely heavily on 
server side conclusions based on client type (user agent) info, 
although never too heavily, but something else lurks in the back of 
my now slightly concerned tired mind.....

I've done loads of dynamic sites now. too many to count, and I've 
never ever heard of 2 users getting the same orderid on a site.

EG:

1. Angie goes to www.evoltshop.dom and adds an item to her cart.
www.evoltshop.dom/addtocart.html?addProdID=1

2. The proxy intercepts this and stores a copy of the response 
page,called say addtocart.html
  Note: At this point no order ID has been assigned so the url is not 
yet dynamic.

3. Tommy also goes to amazon through the same proxy and adds the same 
item to his new cart.
Again the url is
www.evoltshop.dom/addtocart.html?addProdID=1

Except surely this should cause a nightmare waiting to go off, as the 
proxy would see the same url and deliver the same page Angie got, 
with all the url's containing her shopping cartID, therefore giving 
the same cart (orderid) to 2 users, Bang here comes the nightmare.

I've never had this happen, So I'm a little baffled as to when a 
proxy steps in and doesn't.

Thoughts peops?

Angie



>  > From: Ben Gustafson <ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com>
>[...]
>>  I'm not sure if I follow how web caching would alter the HTTP User
>>  Agent string that a browser sends to the Web server. Do all clients
>>  connecting via a proxy server identify themselves as the first browser
>>  that requested the page they are requesting?
>
>no, it doesn't alter the string... this scenario:
>
>1. NN user goes to foo.com...
>2. proxy intercepts request, sends request to foo.com...
>3. foo.com responds with NN-specific code...
>4. proxy caches page, passes to NN user...
>5. IE user goes to foo.com...
>6. proxy intercepts request, hands back cached version...
>7. IE user gets code error, because it was NN page...
>
>is that any clearer?
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Dec  6 17:10:31 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:10:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSN-less conundrum and a lost reference . . .
In-Reply-To: <mS/16C6zu-0003DPS@covert.black-ring.iadfw.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206150943.01a98b58@baratta.com>

At 02:26 PM 12/6/2001, you wrote:

>There was a thread here, I think, a few months back that addressed two points:
>a)  what permissions need to be requested from the server admin; and
>b)  if no server changes allowed, what needs to be done to get ASP page to 
>talk to an AccessXX database in the same - or child - directory on the web 
>server.

First off here an example connection string for DNS-Less....

DB_String = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data 
Source=driveletter:\full\path\and\file\name.mdb;"

Second: You need to give the Web Server full read/write to the file and the 
directory the file resides in.

HTH

----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From paw at f2s.com  Thu Dec  6 17:10:49 2001
From: paw at f2s.com (paw at f2s.com)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:10:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] SMIL
Message-ID: <1007680348.3c0ffb5c752d7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>

Don?t know if this is the right place to ask but..
I?m working on an article for evolt on SMIL. Since SMIL is?nt just about 
following the the W3 specification, I would like to get in touch with others 
who have done projects in that language.
Do you know any on evolt that might have any experience in that area ??

Paw Damsgaard
mail : paw at f2s.com






------------------------------------------------- 
Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ 



From poojie at dccnet.com  Thu Dec  6 17:20:26 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Daryl Grant)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:20:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pay Pal - CDN Equivalent ?
In-Reply-To: <003601c17e71$76f8b6e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDKMALLKICIOPFHIEEJPCCAA.poojie@dccnet.com>


-----Original Message (Michele)-----

I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a Canadian equivalent of
paypal?  I realize paypal now accepts international transfers, but it seems
rather silly to me to use paypal to deal with Canadian to Canadian funds.
(And, I've had a bad experience with paypal .. so, another solution would be
more to my liking.)

------------------------------------



I live in Vancouver, BC so I hear where you're coming from. It _would_ be
nice to have a Canadian alternative, but as far as I know there currently
isn't one. It's not a nice feeling being at the mercy of our Dollar value
for every transaction.

All told, the money transaction business is a tough nut to crack as far as
creating a successful business plan is concerned. On the whole PayPal has
done quite a good job of it (I found this article today -- thanks to
arstechnica.com -- about PayPal and how the company operates / what happens
to your cash: http://www.techreview.com/magazine/dec01/schwartz.asp ).


PS: What was your bad experience with PayPal?

Daryl




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 17:20:43 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:20:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] DSL in America
In-Reply-To: <OF8B836AC3.73B1E45A-ON85256B1A.00587EFC@beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <ILEBKOKPAFLAPOPANGAHAEGHFCAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ron,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM
>
> I don't think I could handle a 1GB download max per
> month.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

if you have any interest in things that come in large file sizes, it's not
very difficult at all to bump your usage into the stratosphere.  my dsl was
temporarily shut off by my isp because they'd logged 3.3 gigs of data sent
to my dsl line in a 24-hour period.  they complained about profitability.
*grin*

<tip type="ColdFusion" author=".jeff">

need to perform an identical task multiple times with the input data for the
task being the only thing that is changing?  write a custom tag or find one
on the developer's exchange at allaire.com.  but wait, are you using
coldfusion 5.0 or newer?  is the task the custom tag performing primarily a
task of working with strings?  sounds like a user-defined function (udf) is
just what the doctor ordered.  you can find a ton of great ones (including
some i wrote) at cflib.org, managed in part by our very own raymond camden
(thanks ray).

</tip>

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 17:21:22 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:21:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>  <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <1007681072.1886.0.camel@cr283847-a>

Nope, still can't get this to work. 

(This is what I hate about Linux...!!!)

/chris



On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 17:26, Andrew Forsberg wrote:
> hi Chris!
> 
> in your mysql directory there'll be a folder called 'scripts'. look 
> in there for a file called 'mysql.server'. read it with 'more 
> mysql.server' in one virtual terminal / window and do what it says in 
> the other. :)
> 
> basically, you need to copy it to your /etc/rc.d folder (or similar, 
> depends on OS), and make symbolic links to rc0.d/S01mysql and 
> rc3.d/S80mysql. sorry, i've probably got the exact names wrong as i'm 
> working from memory. :)
> 
> HTH
> andrew
> 




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 17:24:38 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:24:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>  <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>

Well, just about ready to give up and install the rpm. Forget this
binary stuff. Yea, I like to torture myself on a thursday evening!!!

The question comes to mind: Is Linux really worth the trouble?

/chris





From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 17:36:06 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:36:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>  <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <3C1000C7.40403@members.evolt.org>


Chris Johnston wrote:

> Well, just about ready to give up and install the rpm. Forget this
> binary stuff. Yea, I like to torture myself on a thursday evening!!!


what did you do that didn't work? I think what andrew meant to say was 
look in the 'support-files' directory for the startup script 
mysql.server .(unless we're running two different versions, or binaries 
are packaged different than source)

Take the mysql.server file and add it to /etc/rc.d/init.d/ with 'cp 
mysql.server /etc/rc.d/init.d/mysqld'

Then run 'chkconfig --add mysqld'

 

Then run 'chkconfig --list' to make sure its installed and will start up 
at runlevel 3

Then run 'man chkconfig'
Then run 'man init' :)


> The question comes to mind: Is Linux really worth the trouble?

Well you only poked around with it for an hour... Linux is only as worth 
as much as you're willing to put into it

Thankfully you have us to help you along the way, shout if you have any 
more questions :)

.djc.




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Thu Dec  6 17:38:21 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:38:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>; from chris@fuzzylizard.com on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:27:44PM -0500
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <20011206153957.A1579@simianbrotherhood.org>

No, of course not. I hate running a web, mail, and db server on a p150
with 64 Megs of ram.

Seriously though, that's a very subjective question, I prefer to know
what's going on under the hood and not have a bunch of bloated unneeded
crap running at all times.

umm, isn't there an rc.local file that you could just put

'/full/path/to/safe_mysqld &'

into?

On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:27:44PM -0500, Chris Johnston wrote:
> Well, just about ready to give up and install the rpm. Forget this
> binary stuff. Yea, I like to torture myself on a thursday evening!!!
> 
> The question comes to mind: Is Linux really worth the trouble?
> 
> /chris
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 17:44:55 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:44:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>  <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
	 <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home>

Chris, if you're getting stressed, take a step back, have a cup of tea,
you'll just frustrate yourself more.

We'll get you through this, one step at a time *:)

I would suggest going with the rpms. Not only will they be
pre-configured to the platform, but all the stuff about starting them
automatically will be taken care of. But if you want me to go into more
detail on this I can do.

I'm running RH7.2 here and have mysql/php/apache all running fine.

These are the rpms I have installed, all of which can be got from
http://fr2.rpmfind.net

[garrett at cincinnati mail]$ rpm -qa |grep ^php             
php-mysql-4.0.6-7
php-4.0.6-7
[garrett at cincinnati mail]$ rpm -qa |grep ^mysql
mysql-server-3.23.41-1
mysql-3.23.41-1
mysqlclient9-3.23.22-6
[garrett at cincinnati mail]$ rpm -qa |grep ^apache
apache-1.3.22-2


> The question comes to mind: Is Linux really worth the trouble?


I think so *:)

G.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/




From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Dec  6 17:56:45 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Dec  6 17:56:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206153957.A1579@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <00a701c17eb1$dd746af0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

So, Dave, how's the performance? I'm finally retiring my daughter's Pentium
Pro 100 w/80 meg o'RAM, and was thinking about a Linux web/mail server (low
usage) as a practice/testbed machine.

I'll try not to compare it to the PIII-800 w/384M I have here at work.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Preston" <caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?)


> No, of course not. I hate running a web, mail, and db server on a p150
> with 64 Megs of ram.
[ . . . ]




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu Dec  6 18:01:48 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:01:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
 of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <3C1000C7.40403@members.evolt.org>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
 <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
 <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
 <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
 <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <3C1000C7.40403@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p0510030eb835b3bd4ae4@[192.168.1.2]>

>what did you do that didn't work? I think what andrew meant to say 
>was look in the 'support-files' directory for the startup script 
>mysql.server .(unless we're running two different versions, or 
>binaries are packaged different than source)

ohh yea. doh! :) i did say i was going from memory. there weren't any 
replies for about 10 mins so i thought i'd pipe up. sorry for 
misleading.

>Take the mysql.server file and add it to /etc/rc.d/init.d/ with 'cp 
>mysql.server /etc/rc.d/init.d/mysqld'
>
>Then run 'chkconfig --add mysqld'

now that *is* neat. wow! the things you learn each and every day.

>>The question comes to mind: Is Linux really worth the trouble?
>
>Well you only poked around with it for an hour... Linux is only as 
>worth as much as you're willing to put into it

$dan_comment_vote++;

FWIW: expect to set aside a good few hours when installing a major 
package for the first time. linux admin has a learning curve just 
like everything else, it can just appear very long and steep. the 
good news is that for all the frustrating flexibility you get 
frustrating flexibility and then some.


-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 18:16:30 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:16:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Cache Tutorial  (was: Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?)
References: <3C0FC716.3EAAC3AB@lionbridge.com>
Message-ID: <OE34PEgjB3WQgF5z4Ui0001dcf5@hotmail.com>

> > > I've read recently that using server-side browser-sniffing to keep
> > > code lean by tailoring it for each browser's quirks is NOT
> > a good idea
> > > because of web caches.  The undesirable scenario is that a web cache
> > > stores the page designed for WinMSIE5 (e.g.) and then delivers THAT
> > > verison when requested by a user with MacNN4... resulting
> > in a layout
> > > mess for that particular user.

I recommend reading this cache tutorial:

http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/

1. Using <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache"> is wrong.

2. You can send a "Cache-Control: no-cache, must-revalidate" and/or Expires
HTTP header.

3. This technique causes a subtle problem with dynamically generated CSS
files (see previous discussion): the browser will download the CSS on every
page (I think so. I haven't tried that actually), and the user will have to
wait a bit.

I suggest working with sessions: change the link to the CSS file to:

<LINK href="my_browser_sensitive_css.asp?<%=Session.SessionID%>"
rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">

Now, in "my_browser_sensitive_css.asp" don't use "cache-control: no-cache".
On the contrary: let the proxy/browser cache this page.

That way each user has a uniqe URL to the CSS file, and each version is
stored in the cache.




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Thu Dec  6 18:29:25 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:29:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <00a701c17eb1$dd746af0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>; from evolt@spinhead.com on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:58:12PM -0800
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206153957.A1579@simianbrotherhood.org> <00a701c17eb1$dd746af0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <20011206163101.B1579@simianbrotherhood.org>

I never actually tested the throughput, but it runs great for my 128k
upstream dsl. I host a few domains for myself and a couple for friends
and same for the email with no troubles.

Compiling on it will be a tad slow though but patience is a virtue or
something... ;) Of course packages are good too, I just tend to prefer a
finer grained controll over what I install...

-d

On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:58:12PM -0800, spinhead wrote:
> So, Dave, how's the performance? I'm finally retiring my daughter's Pentium
> Pro 100 w/80 meg o'RAM, and was thinking about a Linux web/mail server (low
> usage) as a practice/testbed machine.
> 
> I'll try not to compare it to the PIII-800 w/384M I have here at work.
> 
> spinhead
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Preston" <caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
> of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?)
> 
> 
> > No, of course not. I hate running a web, mail, and db server on a p150
> > with 64 Megs of ram.
> [ . . . ]
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Thu Dec  6 18:38:04 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:38:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a>  <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
	<1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home>
Message-ID: <1007685673.2321.0.camel@cr283847-a>

Okay, thanks for all the help. I finally ditched the binary install that
I have been wrestling with and have gone with a nice rpm install
instead. With all the suggestions here, I may try the binary install
again. However, I have a few questions.

1. what is the difference between mysql and mysql-server?
2. What exactly does chkdonfig do? Where can I learn more about that, it
sounds like it is somewhat important.
3. How powerfull is rc.local on Red Hat 7.2 and are there any
limitations in using it. Can I simply place a command such as
/path/mysql/safe_mysqld & in it and expect to run or do I really need to
go through the fancy chkconfig process? 

For now, that is it.

Thank you all for your help.

/chris

PS. Feeling a little cooler now, sorry.





From ftarzwell at fayec.com  Thu Dec  6 18:38:54 2001
From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC))
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:38:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Disable Print???
References: <000501c17e85$0f2c5bc0$9cd563d8@75CTT01> <001101c17e8d$63e86e30$080a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <3C100FDF.AB2029C3@fayec.com>

I have no clue why her client wants print disabled.
SHe is aware that people could do a screen capture but she is still
trying to find a solution to what the client wants.

FayeC



From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Thu Dec  6 18:55:59 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Thu Dec  6 18:55:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007685673.2321.0.camel@cr283847-a>; from chris@fuzzylizard.com on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 07:41:10PM -0500
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home> <1007685673.2321.0.camel@cr283847-a>
Message-ID: <20011206165735.C1579@simianbrotherhood.org>

> 1. what is the difference between mysql and mysql-server?
I suspect that mysql (rpm I assume) is just the client tools, used to
connect to the server itself. and MySQL-server is just the server
itself.


> 2. What exactly does chkdonfig do? Where can I learn more about that, it
> sounds like it is somewhat important.
I believe that chkconfig is a redhat specific script for validating the
format of init scripts.


> 3. How powerfull is rc.local on Red Hat 7.2 and are there any
> limitations in using it. Can I simply place a command such as
> /path/mysql/safe_mysqld & in it and expect to run or do I really need to
> go through the fancy chkconfig process? 
rc.local is just a shell script that is executed immediately after the
system has come up. It is run as root, so it is very powerful indeed,
please be careful. 


> 
> For now, that is it.
> 
> Thank you all for your help.
glad to help, trying to use unix based systems can often be a trial, but
it is well worth it in the long run. Just stay away from lpd.. oh, dear god
no!


-d



From aruba at cybersync.com  Thu Dec  6 19:03:44 2001
From: aruba at cybersync.com (LMP)
Date: Thu Dec  6 19:03:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] QuickTime
Message-ID: <3C1015DF.ACE31004@cybersync.com>

Evolt,

We just created 8 QuickTime VR Tours for a client. When they went to
download QT they can't install because their IT guys don't allow
installs. OK, we got passed that and installed QT. Still did not work.
It
seems the IT guys block movies on the router. They won't even get
through.

Does anybody have any other ideas that we can get around this problem? I

thought I read or saw some java script or applet that would run .mov.

Thanks,
Lynn




From djc at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 19:10:29 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Dec  6 19:10:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206153957.A1579@simianbrotherhood.org> <00a701c17eb1$dd746af0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> <20011206163101.B1579@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <3C101859.2090809@members.evolt.org>

+1 on low end linux mailservers..

my first out of school job i installed an old gateway 120 with 64Mb of 
ram and 5Gb disk to handle email & DNS for 3 domains, POP3 for 15 
people, IMAP  for 20 others, and ran a mailing list that shot out about 
1500 emails a day. Ran like a *champ* for with non downtime for 10 
months then blew a disk drive. at which point i replaced with with a 
p166 and new drive :)

email & dns especially are low cpu/memory usage, although high on disk 
I/O and are services that run great on old servers.

hell, every email going through lists.evolt.org gets relayed through 
either a 486/66, p133, or 8 year old sparc5 - all running linux - before 
going to individual mailboxes. on an slow day of 100 emails between all 
the lists, thats over 300,000 emails per *day* :)

so ya, they make good mailservers ;)

.djc.

Dave Preston wrote:

> I never actually tested the throughput, but it runs great for my 128k
> upstream dsl. I host a few domains for myself and a couple for friends
> and same for the email with no troubles.
> 
> Compiling on it will be a tad slow though but patience is a virtue or
> something... ;) Of course packages are good too, I just tend to prefer a
> finer grained controll over what I install...
> 
> -d
> 
> On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:58:12PM -0800, spinhead wrote:
> 
>>So, Dave, how's the performance? I'm finally retiring my daughter's Pentium
>>Pro 100 w/80 meg o'RAM, and was thinking about a Linux web/mail server (low
>>usage) as a practice/testbed machine.
>>
>>I'll try not to compare it to the PIII-800 w/384M I have here at work.





From martin at prispop.com  Thu Dec  6 19:42:54 2001
From: martin at prispop.com (Andrew Martin)
Date: Thu Dec  6 19:42:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] SMIL
In-Reply-To: <1007680348.3c0ffb5c752d7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <CPELJEJPJPFOHDCBAMPGGEFCCDAA.martin@prispop.com>

RealNetworks has a ton of info on the subject.  You've got to pore through
their website to find the useful stuff.  Here's a start:
http://www.realnetworks.com/resources/realoneplayer/smil/smil_basics.html?UK
=X

It's not too difficult once you've got the basics down...


> Don?t know if this is the right place to ask but..
> I?m working on an article for evolt on SMIL. Since SMIL is?nt just about
> following the the W3 specification, I would like to get in touch
> with others
> who have done projects in that language.
> Do you know any on evolt that might have any experience in that area ??
>
> Paw Damsgaard
> mail : paw at f2s.com




From david.currey at wanadoo.fr  Thu Dec  6 21:25:40 2001
From: david.currey at wanadoo.fr (david currey)
Date: Thu Dec  6 21:25:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] QuickTime
In-Reply-To: <3C1015DF.ACE31004@cybersync.com>
Message-ID: <B835E77C.1FC1%david.currey@wanadoo.fr>

on 12/7/01 2:05 AM, LMP at aruba at cybersync.com wrote:

> Evolt,
> 
> We just created 8 QuickTime VR Tours for a client. When they went to
> download QT they can't install because their IT guys don't allow
> installs. OK, we got passed that and installed QT. Still did not work.
> It
> seems the IT guys block movies on the router. They won't even get
> through.
> 
> Does anybody have any other ideas that we can get around this problem? I
> 
> thought I read or saw some java script or applet that would run .mov.
> 
sorry but no real good news here , just some help (maybe)
there are java applets that can display a pano ,but i am sure the quality is
nowhere near what you are going to get using the QT plugin, and I am nearly
sure that they can't handle multi nodes without reauthoring your hotspot
tracks from "apple graphics" codec to a tiff codec . I assume you have
multinodes becuase you called them "VR tours". If there is such an applet
that can just about do the job for you the next hurdle is the rumors on the
quicktime talk lists about java vr applets not working in explorer 6.

take a look at:
http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch/

and * Viewing Quicktime VR without Quicktime

http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch/PTVJ/ptmvj.html

the link above looked promising at first until you read that it is still a
.mov that is requested from the server. there are other java viewers that
just request a jpg, but once again, I am definately not recomending any of
these over the QT solution.


http://eslit.com/java/multiviewer.html

http://www.nemeng.com/java/

<rant>Even though I am not surprised, I am sickened by these IT'ers and
their "router patrols" if they want to see vr, they are just going to have
to let it through the router. This is the second time this week that I have
"recomended" someone to go to the panotools site, and a further example of
why I am a commercially unsucessfull quicktime developer :( </rant>

david currey

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/space.craft/




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Thu Dec  6 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Thu Dec  6 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 06-DEC-01
Message-ID: <200112070555.fB75t2aI006657@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 06-DEC-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Commentary & Society: A 'Magic Lantern' for the FBI (Author: erika)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/25/18170/index.html

According to several news sources, the FBI intends to use
keystroke-logging-enabled Trojan horses for their spy-work in the
terror war.   Anti-virus software makers debate their role.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com  Fri Dec  7 00:11:13 2001
From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft)
Date: Fri Dec  7 00:11:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install
	of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <20011206165735.C1579@simianbrotherhood.org>
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a>
	<20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org>
	<1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]>
	<1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a>
	<1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home>
	<1007685673.2321.0.camel@cr283847-a> 
	<20011206165735.C1579@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <1007705287.1671.3.camel@mrhat.dynip.com>

On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 18:57, Dave Preston wrote:
> > 1. what is the difference between mysql and mysql-server?
> I suspect that mysql (rpm I assume) is just the client tools, used to
> connect to the server itself. and MySQL-server is just the server
> itself.

correct
 
> > 2. What exactly does chkdonfig do? Where can I learn more about that, it
> > sounds like it is somewhat important.
> I believe that chkconfig is a redhat specific script for validating the
> format of init scripts.

chkconfig is a command line tool where you can specify what services you
want started at boot time.  

chkconfig --list

spits out a nice chart of what apps get started at the different
run-levels at boottime

You can also define what run-levels you want each prog to start under.  
example:

chkconfig --level 345 mysql on

tells the init script to run the mysql script in /etc/rc.d/init.d when
ever linux enter run level 3,4, or 5
 
> > 3. How powerfull is rc.local on Red Hat 7.2 and are there any
> > limitations in using it. Can I simply place a command such as
> > /path/mysql/safe_mysqld & in it and expect to run or do I really need to
> > go through the fancy chkconfig process? 
> rc.local is just a shell script that is executed immediately after the
> system has come up. It is run as root, so it is very powerful indeed,
> please be careful. 

I'd much rather use chkconfig to set run-level startups than to just
have it start all the time.  No need to start up some apps when booting
into single user mode(run level 1, you know how to do that, right? :) )

jeremy




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Dec  7 01:15:45 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Dec  7 01:15:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] SMIL
References: <1007680348.3c0ffb5c752d7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <095201c17eee$e034d6c0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
some nice SMIL/SVG syntax examples can be found here:
http://www.kevlindev.com/tutorials/index.htm

(SVG plugin is needed http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/main.html )

What would be an interesting point to address in an article, would be
whether SMIL has any real-world use, or future.
It seems that after the hype has cleared only Real-player and Adobe's
SVG-viewer have actually implemented it
I have tried to use the SVG implementation in real-world situations, and
have had to drop it, and code all animations in Javascript due to
performance problems. (on p3 500Mhz 400mbRam).

To illustrate this you can compare processor use on these examples on the
Kevlindev page:

      JavaScript and the DOM (using SMIL elements)
      JavaScript and the DOM (integer - does not match SMIL)
      JavaScript and the DOM (parametric - matches SMIL)


It may well be that the Real-player implementation is much better, or that
there are other implementations out there, so I look forward to your
article.

Cheers,
Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: <paw at f2s.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:12 AM
Subject: [thelist] SMIL


> Don?t know if this is the right place to ask but..
> I?m working on an article for evolt on SMIL. Since SMIL is?nt just about
> following the the W3 specification, I would like to get in touch with
others
> who have done projects in that language.
> Do you know any on evolt that might have any experience in that area ??
>
> Paw Damsgaard
> mail : paw at f2s.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Dec  7 01:22:03 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Dec  7 01:22:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] SMIL
References: <1007680348.3c0ffb5c752d7@webmail.freedom2surf.net> <095201c17eee$e034d6c0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <096801c17eef$c1713570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

I might add that some cool use of SVG and SMIL in Real-player can be found
here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/files/real.zip
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/files/RealII.zip

I think you have to join the group to access the files though.

Richard.







From paw at f2s.com  Fri Dec  7 02:40:42 2001
From: paw at f2s.com (paw at f2s.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 02:40:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE : [SMIL]RealNetworks has a ton..
Message-ID: <1007714545.3c1080f10b995@webmail.freedom2surf.net>

Hi Andrew.

(one more time. This is a laugh : Halfway through my answer, my BACKSPACE got 
stuck *ROLF*. No comments, OK !!)

Thanks for the link. I?m not writing about realplayer, and I don?t know if 
this case could have been done with RP (I doubt it). I use Quicktime and take 
advantage of the QT-extensions from Apple, meaning I start with :
-----------
SMILtext
<SMIL>
-----------
The trick is to save the SMIL with QT-extensions as a MOV-file. That way you 
can embed it in a new SMIL-file and get it to work with other formats 
supported by Quicktime (which took me about 2 weeks to figure out).
The case is 4 infokiosks in a mall running 4 heavy trailers (in full screen) 
interrupted by 4 Flash-commercials (and company logo has to be shown all the 
way). (IE6 have a tendency to crash, while IE5.5 can run for days. Could that 
be some sort of a memoryleak ? This is a real problem, ?cause I can?t hide the 
cursor using IE5.5 !!).
The machines are underpowered, which means I?m skipping frames to make it run 
smoothly, and using the 'qt:immediate-instantiation="true"' to keep the 
machines from coughing up blood.

Since this solution only covers one specific task, I would like to hear from 
others with exprience in this field, and maybe do a "joint article", ?cause it 
was really hard to dig out any information, and I have?nt be able to find any 
help in Denmark, or any real usefull info from Apple.  

I want to deliver a broad article, and not just a "I?m-the-center-of-the-
universe-thing".

Do you know any on evolt who have been messing with something similar ??

Best regards

Paw Damsgaard
mail : paw at f2s.com





------------------------------------------------- 
Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ 



From paw at f2s.com  Fri Dec  7 02:56:53 2001
From: paw at f2s.com (paw at f2s.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 02:56:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] =?ISO-8859-1?B?TXlTUUwgd29utHQgcg==?=un on Win2k server and XP !
Message-ID: <1007715516.3c1084bc44cf7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>

I can?t get MySQL to run on XP an Win2k server.
I?ve tried different inastallations, but I can?t get it running.
(Right now I have the bundle from Apache).
It just pops up for a splitsecond, and then it shuts down, and there is 
nothing to find in the taskmanager.
Is this a commen problem on Windows ?
I know this is not a Linux question, but I?m really getting desperate !

Paw Damsgaard
mail : paw at f2s.com


------------------------------------------------- 
Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ 



From mpember at phreaker.net  Fri Dec  7 04:12:54 2001
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Fri Dec  7 04:12:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL =?ISO-8859-1?Q?won=B4t?= run on Win2k server and XP 
	!
References: <1007715516.3c1084bc44cf7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <3C1097D4.7090202@phreaker.net>

paw at f2s.com wrote:

>I can?t get MySQL to run on XP an Win2k server.
>I?ve tried different inastallations, but I can?t get it running.
>(Right now I have the bundle from Apache).
>It just pops up for a splitsecond, and then it shuts down, and there is 
>nothing to find in the taskmanager.
>Is this a commen problem on Windows ?
>I know this is not a Linux question, but I?m really getting desperate !
>
>Paw Damsgaard
>mail : paw at f2s.com
>
Have you tried running it from the command line?  It is possible that it is displaying an error message and windows is closing the window too quickly for you to see it.
-- 
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010







From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Fri Dec  7 04:46:57 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 04:46:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
Message-ID: <OF79763354.891B740F-ON80256B1B.003B3C30@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Fred Brooks - the Mythical Man Month.

Cheers
Martin


To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process


hey everyone...

i need to help my newly implimented QA department get up to speed and fit
them into our development process.  Our new QA person used to be a
developer
and has moved into the QA department.  He was just hired and is fresh to
the
company.  A real full time QA process is new to this team and i was
wondering if anyone had any good resources, processes, best practices,
articles, etc. that might help everyone get up to speed and into the idea
that testing is a major part of the dev cycle?



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Dec  7 05:02:20 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Dec  7 05:02:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Longitude conversion
Message-ID: <002201c17f0e$7fcdfbc0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
Can anyone help with this,
I want to translate the difference between two Lon/Lat coords into feet.

I understand that 1 minute latitude is 6080 feet.
And that 1 minute Longitude will be less than this, depending on how far
from the pole it is.

Does anyone know the formula to determine this?

Thanks,
Richard.





From peter.vandijck at vardus.com  Fri Dec  7 05:07:17 2001
From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri Dec  7 05:07:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
References: <OF79763354.891B740F-ON80256B1B.003B3C30@ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <034801c17f0e$36d59040$d801000a@peter>

 From my experience:
- programmers usually love having their stuff tested.
- a simple bug database system really helps as well. Note it has to be
simple :)
- project managers need to be forced to understand that on a 10 week project
you don't do 2 days of testing, you do 2 weeks. A few meetings in which
horror stories are shared and exercises in estimating testing time are done
can help.
- the balance between hardcore testing procedure (scripts for everything,
logging it all) which is good to test funky functionality, and just
good-enough testing, which is good for most HTML for example, has to be
struck.... Else you'll keep testing forever.
Good luck Martin!
Peter
----------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be
privileged and is intended for the above named addressee(s). If you are not
the intended recipient(s), and have received this communication in error,
please contact the sender by replying to this email or by telephoning +44
(0)20 7471 8899. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Vardus Ltd.
Tel: 020 74718899




From bimal.shah at venus.co.uk  Fri Dec  7 06:13:09 2001
From: bimal.shah at venus.co.uk (Bimal Shah)
Date: Fri Dec  7 06:13:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion CFFTP replacement
Message-ID: <ELEAJPEALCJLAJNCJFLCEEIECMAA.bimal.shah@venus.co.uk>

Since my last email we have decided to write our own
custom ftp tag (just for uploads/downloads). It will
be called <CFX_FTPTransfer>

I've done some work and got a tag working which is
transferring files in a second (as opposed to using
CFFTP which is taking 9 seconds).

If anyone is interested please email me at the 
email below.

---
Bimal Shah (Senior Web Developer)
(T) 020 7240 5858 (F) 020 7240 5859
(E) bimal at venus.co.uk
Venus Internet Limited http://www.venus.co.uk




From blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 06:14:38 2001
From: blanchardmatthew at hotmail.com (Matthew Blanchard)
Date: Fri Dec  7 06:14:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPIEIPCGAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
Message-ID: <OE33QwqN00NmFx4l9i400016789@hotmail.com>

> From: "Adrian Fischer" <adrian at aussiebidder.com>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] HTML EMAIL
>

> Ok...got the HTML email thing working a treat.  Next question would be
> though, if a mail client cant view html or html is turned off, how can I
> ensure they get something that makes sense instead of all my mark up?

You need to send a "multipart/alternative" message. Either find a module
that does this for you (search CPAN), or study the MIME specifications (go
to an RFC index (e.g. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/) and search for "MIME").

In short, a "multipart/alternative" message looks like:

From: $from
To: $to
Subject: $subject
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----$UNIQUE_STRING"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------$UNIQUE_STRING
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

plain text version

------$UNIQUE_STRING
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<i>html version</i>

------$UNIQUE_STRING--

You can send yourself such a message (using your favorite email client) and
then check the source (in OE: File / Properties / Details / Message Source).




From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri Dec  7 06:25:25 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri Dec  7 06:25:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea?
In-Reply-To: <3C0FF315.7050401@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <3C106FF8.17907.868C053@localhost>

On 6 Dec 2001, at 17:37, Craig Saila posted a message which said:

> Despite the fact it cancels out the benefits of caching (i.e., faster
> download times for the user), wouldn't putting:
>    <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache">
> in the head solve these server-side issues?

That's a misuse of the "pragma" header - it's supposed to be for 
sending messages *to* the server, not from the server to the client.

And the biggest single chunk of the internet is AOL, and their 
caching firewall does *not* look at web pages to see if you have meta 
tags. You have to have *real* headers to play in their ballpark.

Most corporate caching firewalls, as well as the MSNTV one, will not 
cache a page that sets cookies in the headers, a page that is the 
result of a POST operation, or pages that have an https:// URL.  I 
can't think of a better reason to avoid javascript cookies than that.

If you use the 
     Cache-Control:private
header, that tells the browser it's OK to cache the page, but firewalls 
aren't supposed to save it to a shared cache.  That depends on 
everybody knowing and understanding HTTP/1.1, though.

deke




--------
We are the parents our people warned us about....




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Dec  7 07:10:37 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:10:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Internal Networking: 5 Q's
Message-ID: <p05001900b8366de94c66@[24.43.152.114]>

I've currently got a set up where my PC touches the web though my 
Mac, using IPNet router. My Mac touches my PC for file sharing though 
PCMacLan. What I'm wondering, having just installed Win2kPro, with 
this set up is the following:


1) Does anyone know if I can make a connection to the default 
Win2KPro web/ftp/mail server? (I think it's personal web server) from 
another machine?

2) If not, is Apache the right choice of web servers to install 
considering the OS is MS? (I only want to test from my other machines 
on my home network, not serve to the web at large.)

3) I've got the full version of CFServer running on my PC, will I 
encounter config nightmares due to my beginner's knowledge level of 
networking if I do?

4) Does anyone know all of the above assumes that I can serve to 
another machine, wether or not IPNet Router will let me address my PC?

5) And if so, can someone suggest the setup?


If all of this comes though, I have the dream setup! Editing though 
BBEdit on my Mac via file sharing, and testing via HTTP/FTP. I only 
need to use my PC as the server! Four corner testing without a packet 
touching the net. Sweet!


Lots of questions, lots of thanks.
-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From amccoy at goodmanct.com  Fri Dec  7 07:14:27 2001
From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:14:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B3360A8F87@admin.admin.goodmanct.com>

http://www.apachetoolbox.com/ - Installs PHP4, MySQL, Apache, and
whatever mods you choose. Even downloads the source to whatever piece is
missing. Pretty slick

Alan
_______________________
To do is to be. - Voltaire
To be is to do. - Descartes
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Johnston [mailto:chris at fuzzylizard.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:26 PM
> To: TheList
> Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am just wondering if there is such a thing as a single 
> install rpm for
> Linux that installs PHP4, MySQL, and Apache. I have tried 
> working my way
> through several tutorials to do this but have yet to be 
> successfull. So,
> I am wondering if there is an easy way out. I seem to remember someone
> mentioning something like this for windows and went looking in the
> archives but couldn't find anything.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> /chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 07:15:55 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:15:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5Bthelist=5D_MySQL_won=B4t_run_on_Win2k_server_and_XP?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?_!?=
In-Reply-To: <1007715516.3c1084bc44cf7@webmail.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNAEGCCGAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of paw at f2s.com
> Sent: 07 December 2001 08:59
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] MySQL won?t run on Win2k server and XP !
>
> I can?t get MySQL to run on XP an Win2k server.
> I?ve tried different inastallations, but I can?t get it running.
> (Right now I have the bundle from Apache).
> It just pops up for a splitsecond, and then it shuts down, and there is
> nothing to find in the taskmanager.
> Is this a commen problem on Windows ?
> I know this is not a Linux question, but I?m really getting desperate !

We don't care what OS you're using here, don't worry.

I'm guessing you don't have it installed as a service
under Windows - check under start/programs/
administrative tools/services to see whether MySQL
is on the list, started and set to start as 'Automatic'.

If it's not there, go to whichever directory you
installed it to (usually c:\mysql\bin) and type

mysqld --install

[note that could be mysql --install,
but I'm not near the right machine to check].

If it's already in Services but won't start, *and*
you installed it somewhere other than c:\mysql, you
need an INI file saying so in c:\winnt\system32. Check
the documentation and look for 'mysql.ini'

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From genghis at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 07:22:59 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:22:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Free tip
In-Reply-To: <3C106FF8.17907.868C053@localhost>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNIEGCCGAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

Because it bugged the hell out of me for weeks.

<tip type="IIS 4 and SMTP Service">

The SMTP service in IIS4 can't be reliably used for 
relaying mail generated by Outlook 2000.  Somewhere 
along the line the 'To:' field gets mangled and
the receiving server says 'bugger off, no recipient'.

Then, between 1 and 6 hours later, after holding
the mail in its queue, IIS tries again and succeeds.
Or fails, badmails the message, and doesn't tell 
anyone.

You probably want to avoid the FTP service too,
but that's already very well documented.

</tip>

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------  



From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Fri Dec  7 07:23:09 2001
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:23:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213AD4B@SBS>

I used this for the first time last weekend. I had original installation
RPMs on my system which I needed to uninstall first and then I had some
problems with OpenSSL, but I finally got a full install up and running. I
would say that it's a good tool, but *if* something doesn't go according to
plan then you're going to need to know your way around Linux. (I even had to
do an alteration in a makefile - though that wasn't apachetoolbox's fault).

.steve

----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: McCoy, Alan [mailto:amccoy at goodmanct.com]
> Sent: den 7 december 2001 14:20
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache 
> for Linux?
> 
> 
> http://www.apachetoolbox.com/ - Installs PHP4, MySQL, Apache, and
> whatever mods you choose. Even downloads the source to 
> whatever piece is
> missing. Pretty slick
> 
> Alan
> 



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Fri Dec  7 07:43:13 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:43:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206224946.02a3c1f8@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEJPCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

this might be near impossible, but im not sure.
basically, i want to set up a website that can hold either netmetting remote
host or pc anywhere.
Ive basically set up a test machine with various software (such as browsers)
on the desktop.
I would like (ideally) to have a webpage that lets users click a link and
get taken to a popup with the remote host open on the Test machine so they
can use various software on it, say to check their websites etc...

does anyone know if this is possible, and if so, how do you go about doing
it in ASP?

cheers
paul






From genghis at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 07:59:40 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Fri Dec  7 07:59:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEJPCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNKEGDCGAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
> Sent: 07 December 2001 13:44
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website
>
>
> this might be near impossible, but im not sure.
> basically, i want to set up a website that can hold either
> netmetting remote
> host or pc anywhere.
> Ive basically set up a test machine with various software (such
> as browsers)
> on the desktop.
> I would like (ideally) to have a webpage that lets users click a link and
> get taken to a popup with the remote host open on the Test machine so they
> can use various software on it, say to check their websites etc...

Security alarms (LOUD alarms) aside, VNC has a java class viewer

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Fri Dec  7 08:03:10 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Fri Dec  7 08:03:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website
In-Reply-To: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNKEGDCGAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHMEJPCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

it wont be accessible over the web, its an inhouse thing

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of John Handelaar
Sent: 07 December 2001 14:02
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
> Sent: 07 December 2001 13:44
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Embedding a remote hosy app in a website
>
>
> this might be near impossible, but im not sure.
> basically, i want to set up a website that can hold either
> netmetting remote
> host or pc anywhere.
> Ive basically set up a test machine with various software (such
> as browsers)
> on the desktop.
> I would like (ideally) to have a webpage that lets users click a link and
> get taken to a popup with the remote host open on the Test machine so they
> can use various software on it, say to check their websites etc...

Security alarms (LOUD alarms) aside, VNC has a java class viewer

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Fri Dec  7 08:06:41 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (/cdj)
Date: Fri Dec  7 08:06:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Internal Networking: 5 Q's
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b8366de94c66@[24.43.152.114]>
Message-ID: <000601c17f28$db771b40$be82fea9@cr283847a>

Well, let me try and answer a few of those for you.


>1) Does anyone know if I can make a connection to the default 
>Win2KPro web/ftp/mail server? (I think it's personal web server) from 
>another machine?

This one is the tricky one. You need to give the PC a static IP address
in order for this to work. I have never used IPNet so I can't comment on
how this is to be done. However, once the PC has a static IP address and
is connected to the hub, then open a web browser, type in the IP and
viola, your web pages. The same goes for FTP. As for SMTP, I am not
sure.

>2) If not, is Apache the right choice of web servers to install 
>considering the OS is MS? (I only want to test from my other machines 
>on my home network, not serve to the web at large.)

IIS or Apache, either will do fine. My suggestion is to install
whichever type of server will eventually be hosting the pages, however,
it really doesn't matter, both will work.


>3) I've got the full version of CFServer running on my PC, will I 
>encounter config nightmares due to my beginner's knowledge level of 
>networking if I do?

If CF is up and running properly on the PC then nope, no problems. Is it
the developers edition of CF or a full licensed version? If it is the
developers edition then it is limited to a single IP in which case, you
will only be able to access it from the PC. But, it won't cause any
config nightmares when trying to run HTML of IIS over the network.

>4) Does anyone know all of the above assumes that I can serve to 
>another machine, wether or not IPNet Router will let me address my PC?

As long as the PC has a static IP and is connected to the same hub as
all the other machines and all the other machines have TCP/IP up and
running on them, then you should be able to access IIS and FTP
regardless of whether IPNet is running or not. TCP/IP and IPNet are two
separate things. 

>5) And if so, can someone suggest the setup?

What kind of machines are you trying to network together?

/chris




From ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com  Fri Dec  7 08:25:04 2001
From: ben_gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Fri Dec  7 08:25:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea? and Cache 
 Tutorial
Message-ID: <3C10D1EA.C02AF891@lionbridge.com>

> > BTW, this is a bit of a bummer, since sending a page
> > tailored to the browser is preferable to sending a page
> > full of JavaScript browser detection "ifs".
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> and doing object/method support detection is preferable to 
> both methods above and isn't affected by this proxy 
> caching scenario.

Jeff, could you elaborate more on what object/method support detection is?

> I recommend reading this cache tutorial:
> 
> http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/
> 
> 1. Using <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache"> is wrong.
> 
> 2. You can send a "Cache-Control: no-cache, must-revalidate" 
> and/or Expires HTTP header.

Matt, many thanks for this URL. Would "Cache-Control: no-cache, proxy-revalidate" be more
focused for dealing with the proxy caching issue?

--Ben



From burhankh at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 09:35:15 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:35:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Internal Networking: 5 Q's
Message-ID: <F688gsVWDKpzxDPHprp0000f285@hotmail.com>

Let me see if I can take a crack at some of these...

1) Does anyone know if I can make a connection to the default
Win2KPro web/ftp/mail server? (I think it's personal web server) from
another machine?

<answer>

If by connection you mean can I see the web pages being served, then by all 
means you can! As long as the machine has an IP address, and it on a network 
(either internal (as in with another PC via a hub), or on the internet). 
Note, however, that PWS has a user limit (5 I think), and once a 6th user 
tries to logon, the server will displpay error pages.

As far as mail/ftp is concerned, I can only give you advice on FTP servers. 
I have yet to setup a mail server, although I presume that any one of the MS 
products shouldn't be too hard to setup. An FTP server is accessible given 
that (1) it is running (started) (2) the machine has a valid IP address (3) 
the machine is on a network (again, either internal or external) (4) is 
acessible (firewall, gateway, IP blocking, etc.). As long as these 
conditions are satisfied, you should be able to serve files from your FTP 
server. The default port for FTP is 21, so if you machine has both a web and 
FTP server running, then you would access the ftp server by the following 
method(s) :

ftp://127.0.0.1:21 (IP Access from Web browser (anonymous access))
ftp://localhost:21 (Machine name from Web browser (anonymous access))

ftp://username:password at 127.0.0.1:21
(IP Access from Web Browser (username/password syntax)

Note(s) :

In older versions of IE, the ftp://username:password syntax might not work. 
In newer IE browsers (5.x+), you can eliminate the password portion, as in 
(ftp://username at 127.0.0.1:21) and the brower will popup a box that asks for 
your password. This is recommended method. Since the address that you type 
is stored in history, and anybody who sits on your computer after you have 
access your FTP server, can simply hit the History button to find your 
password (using the older username/password method).

If your computer is on the internet (for example, with a dialup connection), 
then you IP address will change.

</answer>

2) If not, is Apache the right choice of web servers to install
considering the OS is MS? (I only want to test from my other machines
on my home network, not serve to the web at large.)

<answer>

By far, Apache is the most used HTTP server on the Internet. If you plan on 
testing with ASP, however, I would suggest NOT installing Apache, since it 
does not provide native support for ASP. You can have ASP access with third 
party software, but why do that when almost every MS HTTP Server (even PWS), 
provides native support for ASP. You can have multiple HTTP servers running 
on the same machine. This requires giving each server a different port to 
listen to. By default, HTTP servers listen on port 80. You can, for example, 
have your PWS/IIS be the default server, and have Apache installed to listen 
on port 8070. Then when you would like to see the pages being served by 
Apache, you would just append the port number at the end of your URL, like 
so :

http://127.0.0.1:8070

</answer>


3) I've got the full version of CFServer running on my PC, will I
encounter config nightmares due to my beginner's knowledge level of
networking if I do?

<answer>
Can't help you here. I have no experience with CFServer or CF for that 
matter.
</answer>

4) Does anyone know all of the above assumes that I can serve to
another machine, wether or not IPNet Router will let me address my PC?

<answer>
Not quite sure what IPNet is, but I tell you this much. If each machine has 
a valid IP address, and is pingable from the other machines, then you 
shouldn't have any problem access files, provided that you have a correct 
server setup.
</answer>


5) And if so, can someone suggest the setup?

<answer>

  For a small home network, I would suggest getting one of those home 
networking kits, which usually contain :

(4) Network Cards
(1) Network Hub (4 port, generally)
    Cabling (CAT 5, most of the time)
    Software for OSes (mostly Windows, but some are available for *nix)

  The setup from here should be pretty easy. If you have Windows XP, I 
believe it has a home network setup wizard/utility that will help you out.

  If I have totally misread/misunderstood your question, my apologies!
</answer>

Regards,
Burhan Khalid

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Fri Dec  7 09:38:14 2001
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:38:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] ppt and printing
Message-ID: <015c01c17f35$2d5194c0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

weekends were made for challenges department

I have some Powerpoint slides, to make ready for print.

any ideas on file type conversion for printing?

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt 
http://www.evolt.org
lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com






From burhankh at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 09:45:25 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:45:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Single install of PHP4, MySQL, Apache for Linux?
Message-ID: <F21SVvR0WssM5sGmhZ200007574@hotmail.com>

I'll throw in a recommendation for the NuSphere installer. You can
download it free from their site after signing in. Very slick and easy.

www.nusphere.com -- click on DOWNLOAD.

FYI -- NuSphere isn't the favorite of some in the OSS community right
now, including the folks at MySQL AB.

Also, their PHP IDE, PHPEd, is really, really good.


-j

I tried their eval version of PHPEd, very detailed and and excellent editor, 
and "two thumbs up" for their installer, which is, oddly enough, web browser 
based. It installed everything, and I mean EVERYTHING :

Apache
mySQL
PHP
a whole bunch of other stuff.

Still haven't found the time to completely wade through PHPEd (its quite 
complex, the initial screen itself is an exercise in real estate 
management). When I am finished, I hope to write a review of it (unless 
someone already has).

Burhan Khalid


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 09:46:55 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:46:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] ppt and printing
In-Reply-To: <015c01c17f35$2d5194c0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: <200112071546.fB7Fks0E027046@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "the head lemur" <headlemur at clearskymail.com>
[...] 
> I have some Powerpoint slides, to make ready for print.
> 
> any ideas on file type conversion for printing?

erm, printing to what?  i guess i'm not seeing what you need, since 
PowerPoint is obviously able to print...

??




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 09:48:08 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:48:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS problems
Message-ID: <F28qSOc7wo95EFk2H3b0000327d@hotmail.com>

Also worth mentioning that you have to be on the internet (or on a network) 
for ASP pages to be served.

At 01:55 AM 12/6/2001, you wrote:
>Hi all
>
>I've got IIS/PWS installed on a laptop, which we want to use to give some
>demonstrations on.  THe problem is that IIS doesn't appear to be serving 
>ASP
>pages at all.  It's serving HTML pages no problem, however ASP requests are
>just doing nothing, the bar is sitting there steadfastly refusing to move.
>The pages aren't timing out or anything.  I've looked in the event log and
>it's showing the ASP service as having started.

What URL are you using? Does it say file: or http:??

Try this: http://localhost/test.asp

Make sure that localhost is in the "hosts" table. 
c:\winnt\system32\drivers\ect

127.0.0.1       localhost

----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


_________________________________________________________________
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From raymond.simplice at bristolwest.com  Fri Dec  7 09:50:28 2001
From: raymond.simplice at bristolwest.com (Raymond Simplice)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:50:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] system variable
Message-ID: <4881C2CEC543D511B6D900105A7381FFBE6857@xchange.bristolwest.com>

> Hello,
> 
> I set an environment variable (system variable) through <Control
> Panel/System>, how do I access that variable within my java code.  I used
> System.getProperties() to display all the properties, most of those
> variables were not shown.  Is there another way to fetch that information
> from the system?
> 
> Your help would be very appreciated,
> Ray.



From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Dec  7 09:56:01 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:56:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Longitude conversion
References: <002201c17f0e$7fcdfbc0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <005701c17f37$880089b0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Sorry for the lack of detail, but there are airline tables that do this, and
I've seen the math but don't remember it. Perhaps a google search from that
perspective. Ah; just remembered another bit - I learned this in a telecom
class. The telcos use the same tables to determine the length of your T-1 to
make sure they're not undercharging you.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 3:01 AM
Subject: [thelist] Longitude conversion


> Hi,
> Can anyone help with this,
> I want to translate the difference between two Lon/Lat coords into feet.
>
> I understand that 1 minute latitude is 6080 feet.
> And that 1 minute Longitude will be less than this, depending on how far
> from the pole it is.
>
> Does anyone know the formula to determine this?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Dec  7 09:57:43 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Dec  7 09:57:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] ppt and printing
References: <015c01c17f35$2d5194c0$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>
Message-ID: <008101c17f37$f2d18230$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Only prep I do is make sure it's set to print backgrounds and graphics
(settings in the options somewhere) or specifically NOT set to print them,
depending on what you want.


spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "the head lemur" <headlemur at clearskymail.com>
To: "!Evolt" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 7:38 AM
Subject: [thelist] ppt and printing


> weekends were made for challenges department
>
> I have some Powerpoint slides, to make ready for print.
>
> any ideas on file type conversion for printing?
>
> the head lemur
> Web Standards
> http://www.webstandards.org
> Evolt
> http://www.evolt.org
> lemurzone
> http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 10:15:14 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:15:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] problem displaying Flash content
Message-ID: <200112071615.fB7GFD0E028813@leo.evolt.org>

i built a chart in Flash because it's got some detail to it, and while i 
want the site to handle for 640x480 users, i also don't want to 
punish those at higher res with an itty-bitty chart...

however, that durn thing won't display... at least not in the template 
i've built... but the same code displays the Flash just fine in an 
ultra-stripped HTML page...

page it works in:
http://algonquinstudios.com/table_1.asp

page it don't wanna work in:
http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test.asp

another version that won't scale:
http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test2.asp




From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 10:25:06 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:25:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <134783424.1007632071082.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEHFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

We have this one ip address that keeps sending a bot to our website.  The ip
is one on the local area network of my college campus.  Is their a way to
find out information about this ie. the name of the computer without going
to our campus ISP.

I have WS_Ping propack but have not been successful.

Thanks,
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 10:29:25 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:29:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEHFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJACNCFDNLLAFJNJBEEBGDCAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

If its being assigned by DHCP, then the only way is to look at the DHCP
record.

Thanks,
Ron White

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:28 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION



We have this one ip address that keeps sending a bot to our website.  The ip
is one on the local area network of my college campus.  Is their a way to
find out information about this ie. the name of the computer without going
to our campus ISP.

I have WS_Ping propack but have not been successful.

Thanks,
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri Dec  7 10:33:15 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:33:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
Message-ID: <OF1C75437A.41ECA282-ON85256B1B.005A942E@beaerospace.com>

<snip>
We have this one ip address that keeps sending a bot to our website.  The
ip
is one on the local area network of my college campus.  Is their a way to
find out information about this ie. the name of the computer without going
to our campus ISP.

I have WS_Ping propack but have not been successful.
</snip>

Are you on the same LAN as the machine with the 'bot?'  What do you mean by
a bot?
If you are on the campus lan, a tracert will show you the name of the
machine

Open up DOS window

tracert 123.223.132.231

substitute in the IP of the computer in question, of course

If you aren't on the LAN, then you aren't going to get the machine name...
also, you could be seeing the IP of a firewall/router that's doing NAT
instead of the actual box that's hitting you.

-Ron




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Fri Dec  7 10:33:30 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:33:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can't get MySQL to run on Boot (was: Single install of PHP4, MySQL,  Apache for Linux?)
In-Reply-To: <1007705287.1671.3.camel@mrhat.dynip.com>; from ashcraft@13monkeys.com on Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:08:04AM -0600
References: <1007670392.4286.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206125204.B286@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007677545.1584.0.camel@cr283847-a> <p0510030ab835a09eccb7@[192.168.1.2]> <1007681268.1885.3.camel@cr283847-a> <1007682512.2957.10.camel@cincinnati.home> <1007685673.2321.0.camel@cr283847-a> <20011206165735.C1579@simianbrotherhood.org> <1007705287.1671.3.camel@mrhat.dynip.com>
Message-ID: <20011207083511.A281@simianbrotherhood.org>

> > > 3. How powerfull is rc.local on Red Hat 7.2 and are there any
> > > limitations in using it. Can I simply place a command such as
> > > /path/mysql/safe_mysqld & in it and expect to run or do I really need to
> > > go through the fancy chkconfig process? 
> > rc.local is just a shell script that is executed immediately after the
> > system has come up. It is run as root, so it is very powerful indeed,
> > please be careful. 
> 
> I'd much rather use chkconfig to set run-level startups than to just
> have it start all the time.  No need to start up some apps when booting
> into single user mode(run level 1, you know how to do that, right? :) )

Not sure about redhat, but rc.local is only called when entering
multiuser mode on my slackware box.

> 
> jeremy
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Fri Dec  7 10:36:58 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:36:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEHFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEKDCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

whats the ip address - think i might be able to find otu some information
about it for you

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
Sent: 07 December 2001 16:28
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION



We have this one ip address that keeps sending a bot to our website.  The ip
is one on the local area network of my college campus.  Is their a way to
find out information about this ie. the name of the computer without going
to our campus ISP.

I have WS_Ping propack but have not been successful.

Thanks,
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From nopun at bellsouth.net  Fri Dec  7 10:42:45 2001
From: nopun at bellsouth.net (Tyme)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:42:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
References: <200112071615.fB7GFD0E028813@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <009001c17f3e$88529d20$7399fea9@tyme>

Web Developer who can hand-code HTML needed locally in Silicon Valley:
 http://www.guru.com/nl/r/000038/4.asis?1007733276.54.232900





From burhankh at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 10:44:31 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:44:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Printing Problems -- How to Disable
Message-ID: <F139kcJse1fTvOSQeSO00011aa7@hotmail.com>

Hey there Evolters :

  Forgot who originally proposed the question of disabling printing, so I 
will start a new thread on the topic.


Remember this :

The only surefire way of disabling printing in IE is via the registry, so, 
you can pretty much forget about it via the web (as in remotely editing 
registry keys).

Having said that, note this piece of code :

function hide() {
	document.getElementById('secretcontent').style.display = 'none';
}

function show() {
	document.getElementById('secretcontent').style.display = '';
}

<body onbeforeprint="hideAll()" onafterprint="showAll()">
<div id="secretcontent">
...your page here...
</div>
</body>

This piece of code utilizies the onbeforeprint, and onafterprint events that 
are available in IE. This should work for certain areas of the page. But, as 
you can see, its just a hide script, so there would be no way to actually 
have the user see the content, before the print it.

Well, maybe there is....

The new version of IE (5.x+) provided the much hyped print preview feature. 
Along with this, came the print template option. You can, if you can get 
through the labyrinth that is msdn.microsoft.com, find out ways to 
manipulate this so that you can disable printing, but enable print preview. 
I have been so kind as to have done the digging for you :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie55/html/beyondprintpreview.asp

(mind the wrap)

Hoping this helps someone,
Burhan Khalid


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 10:50:12 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:50:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <009001c17f3e$88529d20$7399fea9@tyme>
Message-ID: <200112071650.fB7GoB0E030913@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Tyme" <nopun at bellsouth.net>
>
> Web Developer who can hand-code HTML needed locally in Silicon Valley:
>  http://www.guru.com/nl/r/000038/4.asis?1007733276.54.232900

(not hunting, but i always check out job postings to see what 
people need and how they word it)

but i have to log in to see it?

feh... anyone got a fake UID/PWD already in there?




From ajohnson at mindseye.com  Fri Dec  7 10:50:17 2001
From: ajohnson at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Fri Dec  7 10:50:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEKDCJAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>
Message-ID: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCGEABGKAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>

hey Josh,

You might try using nslookup in Unix or Windows, ie:
C:\>nslookup
> set q=ptr
> theipYouWanttoLookUpHere


Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer
MINDSEYE, Inc.
<phn>617.350.0339
<mbl>617.461.3721
<fax>617.350.8884
<icq>66172567
ajohnson at mindseye.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Paul Backhouse
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:38 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
>
>
> whats the ip address - think i might be able to find otu some information
> about it for you
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
> Sent: 07 December 2001 16:28
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] IP NETWORK QUESTION
>
>
>
> We have this one ip address that keeps sending a bot to our
> website.  The ip
> is one on the local area network of my college campus.  Is their a way to
> find out information about this ie. the name of the computer without going
> to our campus ISP.
>
> I have WS_Ping propack but have not been successful.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From jr at jrkaiser.com  Fri Dec  7 11:02:46 2001
From: jr at jrkaiser.com (Justin Kaiser)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:02:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <200112071650.fB7GoB0E030913@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200112071650.fB7GoB0E030913@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112071104200030.04CE8936@relay.pair.com>

Job description 
 
 
Calling all Web Developers!!!! We have an urgent need for you!!!! This is a long-term contract and you will be responible for maintaining external and internal web sites. MUST have had previous experience creating and editing web pages using HTML, CSS. MUST have had previous experience with updated images and creating PDFs, hand coding HTML USING TEXT EDITOR and have excellent TABLE SKILLS. REQUIRED experience with UNIX SHELL, IMAGE FORMATS, PHOTOSHOP, and converting to PDF. All candidates are REQUIRED to have all of the mentioned skills to be considered for this position. Please include all skills on resumes and send to languyen at act- as a Word attachment. LOCAL CANDIDATES ONLY! NO VISA CANDIDATES ACCEPTED AT THIS TIME. DON'T HESITATE AND APPLY NOW!

call for details, MUST have experience using HTML, CSS, creating PDFs, converting to PDFs, UNIX SHELL, hand code HTML using TEXT EDITOR, excellent TABLE SKILLS, IMAGE FORMATS, experience w/ PHOTOSHOP. ALL REQUIRED SKILLS!!!!!

Other desired skills:
call for details, MUST have experience using HTML, CSS, creating PDFs, converting to PDFs, UNIX SHELL, hand code HTML using TEXT EDITOR, excellent TABLE SKILLS, IMAGE FORMATS, experience w/ PHOTOSHOP. ALL REQUIRED SKILLS!!!!!  


Specifics 
 
 
Pay: Not Specified  
Tax status: 1099 only  
Telecommute options:  
Start Date: 11/30/2001  
Duration: Not Specified  
Location: MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA, US  


Hiring company info 
 
 
Company: ACT 1 Technical  
Type: Staffing firm  
Industry:  
Size: Any size employees 



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 12/7/01 at 11:50 AM aardvark wrote:

>> From: "Tyme" <nopun at bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Web Developer who can hand-code HTML needed locally in Silicon Valley:
>>  http://www.guru.com/nl/r/000038/4.asis?1007733276.54.232900
>
>(not hunting, but i always check out job postings to see what 
>people need and how they word it)
>
>but i have to log in to see it?
>
>feh... anyone got a fake UID/PWD already in there?
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !






From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 11:23:53 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:23:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <200112071104200030.04CE8936@relay.pair.com>
References: <200112071650.fB7GoB0E030913@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Justin Kaiser" <jr at jrkaiser.com>
>
> Job description 
[...]

to respond in the style of the job posting:

thank YOU, justin!!!!!

it is MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!!

...
hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...



From mike at saturn5.com  Fri Dec  7 11:38:05 2001
From: mike at saturn5.com (Mike Migurski)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:38:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Longitude conversion
In-Reply-To: <002201c17f0e$7fcdfbc0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0112070929250.26655-100000@atari>

hi,

short answer:

The distance covered by one minute of long. is proportional to that
covered by one minute of lat. by the cosine of the angle from the equator.
Angle from the the equator is given directly by long., so:

cos( long. ) * 6080ft

long answer:

http://www.mathforum.com/dr.math/problems/longandlat.html

-mike.

>Hi,
>Can anyone help with this,
>I want to translate the difference between two Lon/Lat coords into feet.
>
>I understand that 1 minute latitude is 6080 feet.
>And that 1 minute Longitude will be less than this, depending on how far
>from the pole it is.
>
>Does anyone know the formula to determine this?
>
>Thanks,
>Richard.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   michal migurski     mike at saturn5.com
                  tel:650.624.8552     AIM:migurski
       http://www.saturn5.com/mike     ICQ:47513232
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
        We're lying in the gutter, but we're looking at the stars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------





From info at windyhilldesign.com  Fri Dec  7 11:39:40 2001
From: info at windyhilldesign.com (Heather Quinn)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:39:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent cause?
Message-ID: <3C10FF5E.20508@windyhilldesign.com>

Can anyone give me a clue as to what might be causing one user to get a 
bad referrer error on a form?  The cgi script is a slight modification 
of Matt's FormMail.  It hasn't been changed for 6 months, it had been 
working normally, and works when I test it now.  The referrer that the 
script error handler reported as being in error is one of the referrers 
in the referrer array.  If anyone can help with this puzzle, I'd be 
really grateful.
TIA

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com





From amanda at gawow.com  Fri Dec  7 11:41:14 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:41:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000401c17f46$c162cb00$9cd563d8@75CTT01>

> hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...

Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.

- amanda




From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Fri Dec  7 11:53:07 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Fri Dec  7 11:53:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <000401c17f46$c162cb00$9cd563d8@75CTT01>
References: <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207094743.0320e5f0@mail.midtown.net>

At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
> > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
>
>Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.

So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)

I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are job-hunting, 
too.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Dec  7 12:01:35 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:01:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E6877@apollo.ti3.com>

 
> So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)

It's a middle-man. Some staffing companies employ you and lease you to
the end client (the actual company that has the opening), some act as
recruiters, some in-between...

huge industry, well, at least used to be HUGE, before the market went
upside down...

make some sense?

dex



From april at farstrider.org  Fri Dec  7 12:03:05 2001
From: april at farstrider.org (April)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:03:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207094743.0320e5f0@mail.midtown.net>
References: <000401c17f46$c162cb00$9cd563d8@75CTT01>
 <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011207115654.009d40f0@mail.farstrider.org>

A company needs employees, so they'll pay a staffing company so much to see 
some resumes, or for the staffing company to hunt up candidates on that job 
description.

Unfortunately, this means staffing companies like to keep so many resumes 
on hand at all times.  So, they'll try to get likely resumes, even 
interview people, without actually having a job for them.  When you're job 
hunting, it can get damn annoying, because they never say right up front 
that they have no job for you and likely never will have a job for you.  So 
you have to wade through them and be picky, cause if you have highly 
desirable skills you can waste days of your life just being interviewed by 
staffing agencies.

At 09:48 AM 12/7/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
>> > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
>>
>>Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.
>
>So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
>
>I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are 
>job-hunting, too.
>
>Warmly,
>Shirley




From mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru  Fri Dec  7 12:07:37 2001
From: mar at MN1052.srv.pu.ru (Maryanna Nesina)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:07:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
References: <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20011207094743.0320e5f0@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <00ab01c17f41$92718700$0100007f@mar>

Does enybody knows if there is a possibility of remote work?

Regards,
Maryanna

> At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
> > > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
> >
> >Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.
>
> So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
>
> I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are
job-hunting,
> too.
>
> Warmly,
> Shirley
>
> --
> Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
> SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
> Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
> Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
> Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
> Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Dec  7 12:09:55 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:09:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
References: <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20011207094743.0320e5f0@mail.midtown.net>
Message-ID: <004101c17f4a$456be190$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Cripes. Now I have guilt ;)

Honest - next year when we explode in a frenzy of development there will be
some tasty job postings from yours truly. Frustrating to hear about so many
talented folks un(der)employed when I hardly feel like I deserve the gravy
postion I've got.

No, you can't have it. I don't feel THAT guilty.

Is everyone checking the evolt.org job postings regularly?

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>; <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] job opp


> At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
> > > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
> >
> >Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.
>
> So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
>
> I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are
job-hunting,
> too.
>
> Warmly,
> Shirley
>
> --
> Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
> SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
> Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
> Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
> Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
> Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html
>
>




From jackhand at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 12:13:24 2001
From: jackhand at hotmail.com (Jack Hand)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:13:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
Message-ID: <LAW2-F49c1F9LIV5oXi00006235@hotmail.com>

Shirley,

  A staffing company is a headhunter.  They contact companies or
companies contact them.  They look for people to fill openings
at companies.  They collect their fee from the company.  Primarily,
they deal with permanent placement.  Some of them deal with
contract work.  In those cases, they handle the billing for the
contractor and the taxes, and take a percentage of the hourly
bill rate as their pay.


>From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" <skaiser1 at skdesigns.com>
>
>So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
>
>I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are job-hunting,
>too.
>
>Warmly,
>Shirley


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From abbey at abbeyink.com  Fri Dec  7 12:19:05 2001
From: abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:19:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
In-Reply-To: <3C0E4C8F.4020909@members.evolt.org>
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>
 <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
 <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]>
 <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20011207121822.00a2eb60@mail.abbeyink.com>

>
>Peter Van Dijck wrote:
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>time to crash test this site:
>>http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
>>(It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)
>>I'm looking for:
>>- HTML problems
>>- usability / content problems or suggestions
>>- anything else!
>>And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached to
>>your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit - I'm
>>on that...

You may want to set your body background color -- I have mine set to some 
really strange default colors so I don't forget when I'm coding and the hot 
pink in my NN 4.7 looks kinda odd next to your nav bar (but the pale blue 
in IE isn't too bad).

<tamara />




From edshuck at noevalley.com  Fri Dec  7 12:30:54 2001
From: edshuck at noevalley.com (Ed Shuck)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:30:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots>
 <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
 <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]> <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20011207121822.00a2eb60@mail.abbeyink.com>
Message-ID: <003501c17f4d$f15d08a0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>

hi

Tamara has hit on one of the best tool tips I have seen.  By the way how can
I get  to the tool tips?

peace
----- Original Message -----
From: Tamara Abbey <abbey at abbeyink.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] site review


>
> >
> >Peter Van Dijck wrote:
> >
> >>Hi everyone,
> >>time to crash test this site:
> >>http://poorbuthappy.dsvr.co.uk/colombia
> >>(It is not "live" yet, it'll get it's own URL when live)
> >>I'm looking for:
> >>- HTML problems
> >>- usability / content problems or suggestions
> >>- anything else!
> >>And yes, I know there is a problem with a querystring getting attached
to
> >>your pages leading to errors if you follow links on your first visit -
I'm
> >>on that...
>
> You may want to set your body background color -- I have mine set to some
> really strange default colors so I don't forget when I'm coding and the
hot
> pink in my NN 4.7 looks kinda odd next to your nav bar (but the pale blue
> in IE isn't too bad).
>
> <tamara />
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Fri Dec  7 12:57:24 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 12:57:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware related]...
Message-ID: <001001c17f51$6d9f00a0$5acd7dc2@mpgalvin>

[Welcome back to me - I've been out of the web design 'business' for many
months, and consequently haven't needed the enviable talents of thelist's
subscribers.  I'm not fully back in, but things are looking up]

Now that I've been gloriously made unemployed, I've been kicking around an
idea I had for a dotcom last year.  Yeah, the timing sucks, but I think that
the idea is a goer, and if I get any sort of backing at all, I reckon it
could take off big time.

To that end, I need to get some ideas on the hardware and costs involved.
Ideally, I would start with just taking up space on an ISP's server (get my
own domain, and get them to host it).  If things go well, then pretty soon,
I could see getting my own webserver.  Would it be more cost efficient to
get co-location in an ISP (what do you end up paying for?  Just the
co-location charges and admin rates - do they still charge for traffic?) or
set it up "at home" with a T1 (or similiar) connection to the ISP (or would
it be directly to the telephone company?).  What would be the advantages of
each method?  Would I be better off (assuming sufficient cash reserves) to
go directly to the second phase, and not bother with getting a hosting plan
with some ISP?

In the office, I'll need to get a webserver of my own (we'll be using php
over SQL, I'd say, so I'll need it for testing).  Would a re-tooled 486 with
Apache and Linux installed suffice as an 'at home' webserver?  If I am using
php (comes w/Linux, right?) would mySQL be better (and cheaper) than SQL
Server.

What I basically need to come up with is a shopping list of hardware and
software required to start a dotcom.  If there's anyone out there who's been
through all this before and knows the pitfalls the avoid (not of starting a
dotcom, but of getting the necessary hardware) and has any good tips, I'd
sure appreciate them.

Thanks
Michael




From edshuck at noevalley.com  Fri Dec  7 13:02:52 2001
From: edshuck at noevalley.com (Ed Shuck)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:02:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
References: <000401c17f46$c162cb00$9cd563d8@75CTT01>
 <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>
 <4.2.0.58.20011207115654.009d40f0@mail.farstrider.org>
Message-ID: <004101c17f52$67f5eaa0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>

hi

Headhunters are a lot of things.

I was manager of Systems Engineering for a telephone mfg and did not have
the time to go find staff.  So working with a headhunter, providing specs
that gave real definition to the job.  the recruiter would look over a group
of possibles.  select from 3 to 5 and send resumes.  the recruiter (she)
would speak on the telephone with me to further define the task.  she would
also coach her candidates on the task and even do a pre interview work up.
when they arrived, one per day, they were pumped up, ready to go and
enthusiastic.

The one thing she had to sell was their skill and just as sure as the
supermarket spays water on the lettuce to make it look fresh, she did every
thing she could to enhance her chances.  she knew our company, our people,
everything.

one day i mentioned that we would have a force reduction.  her question was
not when but who.  I did a rundown with no name.  the reduction came on a
Friday and Monday he interviewed at the new company, started Wednesday with
an increase of 5K.  She had the opening to fill and was delighted.  I think
I was the only one unhappy because I knew what we had lost.

the term is sometimes appropriate but the good ones are wonderful.   and
easily worth their fee.

peace
----- Original Message -----
From: April <april at farstrider.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] job opp


> A company needs employees, so they'll pay a staffing company so much to
see
> some resumes, or for the staffing company to hunt up candidates on that
job
> description.
>
> Unfortunately, this means staffing companies like to keep so many resumes
> on hand at all times.  So, they'll try to get likely resumes, even
> interview people, without actually having a job for them.  When you're job
> hunting, it can get damn annoying, because they never say right up front
> that they have no job for you and likely never will have a job for you.
So
> you have to wade through them and be picky, cause if you have highly
> desirable skills you can waste days of your life just being interviewed by
> staffing agencies.
>
> At 09:48 AM 12/7/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
> >> > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
> >>
> >>Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.
> >
> >So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
> >
> >I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are
> >job-hunting, too.
> >
> >Warmly,
> >Shirley
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From edshuck at noevalley.com  Fri Dec  7 13:09:50 2001
From: edshuck at noevalley.com (Ed Shuck)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:09:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware
 related]...
References: <001001c17f51$6d9f00a0$5acd7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <005901c17f53$60de9ea0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>

i use he.net and  love it.  check it out http://www.he.net  the pricing is
very traffic related as you will note.  but they and i have had a very good
relationship for about - well just under 2 years.

peace
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware
related]...


> [Welcome back to me - I've been out of the web design 'business' for many
> months, and consequently haven't needed the enviable talents of thelist's
> subscribers.  I'm not fully back in, but things are looking up]
>
> Now that I've been gloriously made unemployed, I've been kicking around an
> idea I had for a dotcom last year.  Yeah, the timing sucks, but I think
that
> the idea is a goer, and if I get any sort of backing at all, I reckon it
> could take off big time.
>
> To that end, I need to get some ideas on the hardware and costs involved.
> Ideally, I would start with just taking up space on an ISP's server (get
my
> own domain, and get them to host it).  If things go well, then pretty
soon,
> I could see getting my own webserver.  Would it be more cost efficient to
> get co-location in an ISP (what do you end up paying for?  Just the
> co-location charges and admin rates - do they still charge for traffic?)
or
> set it up "at home" with a T1 (or similiar) connection to the ISP (or
would
> it be directly to the telephone company?).  What would be the advantages
of
> each method?  Would I be better off (assuming sufficient cash reserves) to
> go directly to the second phase, and not bother with getting a hosting
plan
> with some ISP?
>
> In the office, I'll need to get a webserver of my own (we'll be using php
> over SQL, I'd say, so I'll need it for testing).  Would a re-tooled 486
with
> Apache and Linux installed suffice as an 'at home' webserver?  If I am
using
> php (comes w/Linux, right?) would mySQL be better (and cheaper) than SQL
> Server.
>
> What I basically need to come up with is a shopping list of hardware and
> software required to start a dotcom.  If there's anyone out there who's
been
> through all this before and knows the pitfalls the avoid (not of starting
a
> dotcom, but of getting the necessary hardware) and has any good tips, I'd
> sure appreciate them.
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From gozz at gozz.com  Fri Dec  7 13:14:18 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:14:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent
 cause?
In-Reply-To: <3C10FF5E.20508@windyhilldesign.com>
References: <3C10FF5E.20508@windyhilldesign.com>
Message-ID: <p04310107b836b7895b32@[192.168.1.100]>

I was just looking through logs and noiticed a bunch of failures like:

/cgi-bin/formmail.pl?recipient=ken[edited]20021 at yahoo.com,&subject=good 
news&email=R26587 at excite.com&=http://[edited]/cgi-bin/formmail.pl

My first thought was that someone was trying to send spam through an 
exploit - this is Matt's FormMail ... Perl isn't even on the server, 
the file was just left over from a transfer.

Is the failure in your log file or do you know of someone that's 
legitimately trying to use it?

>Can anyone give me a clue as to what might be causing one user to 
>get a bad referrer error on a form?  The cgi script is a slight 
>modification of Matt's FormMail.  It hasn't been changed for 6 
>months, it had been working normally, and works when I test it now. 
>The referrer that the script error handler reported as being in 
>error is one of the referrers in the referrer array.  If anyone can 
>help with this puzzle, I'd be really grateful.
>TIA
>
>--
>Cheers,
>
>Heather Quinn
>info at windyhilldesign.com
>http://www.windyhilldesign.com
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From info at windyhilldesign.com  Fri Dec  7 13:29:23 2001
From: info at windyhilldesign.com (Heather Quinn)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:29:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent cause?
References: <3C10FF5E.20508@windyhilldesign.com> <p04310107b836b7895b32@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <3C11191D.5070304@windyhilldesign.com>

Thanks for the response, Erik.  Someone's legitimately trying to use it.

Erik Mattheis wrote:

> I was just looking through logs and noiticed a bunch of failures like:
>
> /cgi-bin/formmail.pl?recipient=ken[edited]20021 at yahoo.com,&subject=good 
> news&email=R26587 at excite.com&=http://[edited]/cgi-bin/formmail.pl
>
> My first thought was that someone was trying to send spam through an 
> exploit - this is Matt's FormMail ... Perl isn't even on the server, 
> the file was just left over from a transfer.
>
> Is the failure in your log file or do you know of someone that's 
> legitimately trying to use it?

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com






From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Fri Dec  7 13:38:16 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:38:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware related]...
In-Reply-To: <005901c17f53$60de9ea0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>
Message-ID: <000001c17f58$5c980200$0200a8c0@BOISNET2>

I have set up several people on http://www.impacthosting.com and have heard
no complaints.  The support is excellent for only being email support and
they have several plans to chose from.  Personal, from my dealings with
them, I recommend then highly.  They are certainly worth checking out to see
if they fit your requirements are.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ed Shuck
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:14 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware
related]...


i use he.net and  love it.  check it out http://www.he.net  the pricing is
very traffic related as you will note.  but they and i have had a very good
relationship for about - well just under 2 years.

peace
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware
related]...


> [Welcome back to me - I've been out of the web design 'business' for many
> months, and consequently haven't needed the enviable talents of thelist's
> subscribers.  I'm not fully back in, but things are looking up]
>
> Now that I've been gloriously made unemployed, I've been kicking around an
> idea I had for a dotcom last year.  Yeah, the timing sucks, but I think
that
> the idea is a goer, and if I get any sort of backing at all, I reckon it
> could take off big time.
>
> To that end, I need to get some ideas on the hardware and costs involved.
> Ideally, I would start with just taking up space on an ISP's server (get
my
> own domain, and get them to host it).  If things go well, then pretty
soon,
> I could see getting my own webserver.  Would it be more cost efficient to
> get co-location in an ISP (what do you end up paying for?  Just the
> co-location charges and admin rates - do they still charge for traffic?)
or
> set it up "at home" with a T1 (or similiar) connection to the ISP (or
would
> it be directly to the telephone company?).  What would be the advantages
of
> each method?  Would I be better off (assuming sufficient cash reserves) to
> go directly to the second phase, and not bother with getting a hosting
plan
> with some ISP?
>
> In the office, I'll need to get a webserver of my own (we'll be using php
> over SQL, I'd say, so I'll need it for testing).  Would a re-tooled 486
with
> Apache and Linux installed suffice as an 'at home' webserver?  If I am
using
> php (comes w/Linux, right?) would mySQL be better (and cheaper) than SQL
> Server.
>
> What I basically need to come up with is a shopping list of hardware and
> software required to start a dotcom.  If there's anyone out there who's
been
> through all this before and knows the pitfalls the avoid (not of starting
a
> dotcom, but of getting the necessary hardware) and has any good tips, I'd
> sure appreciate them.
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
---
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From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri Dec  7 13:45:24 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:45:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: server-side browser-sniffing a bad idea? Cache-Control:private
References: <20011207155921.A18AE903@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C111CBC.C528B4BB@netpaths.net>

how does one add this directive to the header?
 Cache-Control:private

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
____________________________________________
web site design  |  programming  |  search engine marketing





From gnarly at punkass.com  Fri Dec  7 13:50:11 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Dec  7 13:50:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] site review
References: <134769957.1007549940690.JavaMail.root@boots> <038a01c17d93$ddb05570$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <p04310101b833d7f4be9e@[192.168.1.100]> <00ca01c17da4$0e745ca0$d801000a@peter> <5.0.0.25.2.20011207121822.00a2eb60@mail.abbeyink.com> <003501c17f4d$f15d08a0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>
Message-ID: <042c01c17f59$18950200$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Shuck" <edshuck at noevalley.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] site review


> hi
>
> Tamara has hit on one of the best tool tips I have seen.  By the way how
can
> I get  to the tool tips?

Do you mean http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest ?

Olly.





From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Fri Dec  7 14:14:29 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:14:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Longitude conversion
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0112070929250.26655-100000@atari>
Message-ID: <000f01c17f5b$a4c4b1b0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Thanks a lot for that resource Mike - looks like what I was looking for!
Thanks Spinhead too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Migurski" <mike at saturn5.com>

> hi,
>
> short answer:
>
> The distance covered by one minute of long. is proportional to that
> covered by one minute of lat. by the cosine of the angle from the equator.
> Angle from the the equator is given directly by long., so:
>
> cos( long. ) * 6080ft
>
> long answer:
>
> http://www.mathforum.com/dr.math/problems/longandlat.html
>
> -mike.
>
> >Hi,
> >Can anyone help with this,
> >I want to translate the difference between two Lon/Lat coords into feet.
> >
> >I understand that 1 minute latitude is 6080 feet.
> >And that 1 minute Longitude will be less than this, depending on how far
> >from the pole it is.





From evolt at brasscannon.net  Fri Dec  7 14:25:50 2001
From: evolt at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:25:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware related]
In-Reply-To: <20011207194113.6068051F41@relay.evolt.org>; from thelist-admin@lists.evolt.org on Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:41:13PM -0600
References: <20011207194113.6068051F41@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20011207152734.A27825@brasscannon.net>

Quoth Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net>:
> What I basically need to come up with is a shopping list of hardware and
> software required to start a dotcom.

Disclaimer:  Providing that shopping list is what I do at my day job.

You've heard from the nice people recommending some good shared hosting 
solutions; let's go a little toward the higher end.  For the price that
a fractional T1 would cost to get traffic into your office, you could
lease a couple of servers at a hosting provider that would put them 
directly on the backbone and have them monitored 24/7.

Why lease?  Simply put, the ala-carte pricing for colocation ("power, 
pipe, and ping" as separate line items) adds up quickly.  A bundled 
solution can be quite reasonable.  My little corner of the Internet is 
setting me back only $99/month; I've got 50GB/month of transfer (of which 
I'm using about one percent :-)) and I've got administrative access to
do anything within reason.  I got real tired of watching my dialup ISP
drop my mail on the floor, so having that box on the backbone with a 
static IP was worth a good bit more to me than $19.99.

I'd have to ask you a few more questions to size a solution, frankly,
but there's a lot of versatility in an Open Source platform.  One box can 
do quite a bit when it's not asked to provide a GUI; I'm serving a dozen 
sites and two separate mailservers, and my machine isn't even breathing 
hard.  I've avoided apps that require databases, though.

If you're going to be cranking a database, I'd get two small boxes rather 
than one big one.  You can sneak by without a firewall if you stay away 
from Redmondware (more accurately, the box can be its own firewall).  As
a matter of fact, I put together two solutions like that today.  With a 
firewall and Microsoft platforms, it would have been around $2,000/month.  
Using Linux instead, it was $600/month for a pair of machines.  That 
includes ColdFusion for Linux, 100GB/month of total transfers (50GB per 
box), tape backup of 10GB per month, a 100MB handoff to the backbone, 5 
usable static IP addresses, and 24x7 monitoring with five hours of 
sysadmin time per month.
-- 
Kevin Martin <evolt at brasscannon.net>



From april at farstrider.org  Fri Dec  7 14:31:03 2001
From: april at farstrider.org (April)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:31:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <004101c17f52$67f5eaa0$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup>
References: <000401c17f46$c162cb00$9cd563d8@75CTT01>
 <200112071723.fB7HNp0E032473@leo.evolt.org>
 <4.2.0.58.20011207115654.009d40f0@mail.farstrider.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011207142525.009d93b0@mail.farstrider.org>

 From my experience, places that go by the term headhunter and places that 
go by the term staffing agency are usually different.  My headhunter 
attempts to place me at various places where I might fit-- she was there 
for the entirety of my job search, and in general was working for me (at 
the same time as for companies).  Also, I was interviewed before they even 
took me on, to be sure I had a chance in heck of getting the jobs I 
wanted.  Staffing agencies, though, call me up about one or two positions, 
and sometimes don't even realize they called me up about another position 
too.  They tended to be oriented towards the companies they were recruiting 
for, and if I had expected them to see me through until I got a job, I 
would have starved.

At 11:07 AM 12/7/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>hi
>
>Headhunters are a lot of things.
>
>I was manager of Systems Engineering for a telephone mfg and did not have
>the time to go find staff.  So working with a headhunter, providing specs
>that gave real definition to the job.  the recruiter would look over a group
>of possibles.  select from 3 to 5 and send resumes.  the recruiter (she)
>would speak on the telephone with me to further define the task.  she would
>also coach her candidates on the task and even do a pre interview work up.
>when they arrived, one per day, they were pumped up, ready to go and
>enthusiastic.
>
>The one thing she had to sell was their skill and just as sure as the
>supermarket spays water on the lettuce to make it look fresh, she did every
>thing she could to enhance her chances.  she knew our company, our people,
>everything.
>
>one day i mentioned that we would have a force reduction.  her question was
>not when but who.  I did a rundown with no name.  the reduction came on a
>Friday and Monday he interviewed at the new company, started Wednesday with
>an increase of 5K.  She had the opening to fill and was delighted.  I think
>I was the only one unhappy because I knew what we had lost.
>
>the term is sometimes appropriate but the good ones are wonderful.   and
>easily worth their fee.
>
>peace
>----- Original Message -----
>From: April <april at farstrider.org>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:00 AM
>Subject: RE: [thelist] job opp
>
>
> > A company needs employees, so they'll pay a staffing company so much to
>see
> > some resumes, or for the staffing company to hunt up candidates on that
>job
> > description.
> >
> > Unfortunately, this means staffing companies like to keep so many resumes
> > on hand at all times.  So, they'll try to get likely resumes, even
> > interview people, without actually having a job for them.  When you're job
> > hunting, it can get damn annoying, because they never say right up front
> > that they have no job for you and likely never will have a job for you.
>So
> > you have to wade through them and be picky, cause if you have highly
> > desirable skills you can waste days of your life just being interviewed by
> > staffing agencies.
> >
> > At 09:48 AM 12/7/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> > >At 09:44 AM 12/07/2001, A. Erickson wrote:
> > >> > hmmm, start date has passed... interesting...
> > >>
> > >>Feh. It's a staffing company. They got nothin'.
> > >
> > >So what exactly is a staffing company? I'm clueless. :-)
> > >
> > >I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some people I know who are
> > >job-hunting, too.
> > >
> > >Warmly,
> > >Shirley
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From framar at interlog.com  Fri Dec  7 14:37:56 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:37:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
Message-ID: <p05001901b836d7b62974@[24.43.152.114]>

I'm thinking of moving to the states for job opps in the States in 
March. I'm hoping it'll be somewhere in California, but I'm open to 
the location.

My skill set includes high intermediate Cold Fusion, databases of 
various types, javascript, HTML, CSS and the peripherals skills such 
as image manipulation, all the OSs etc... Quite frankly, I'm pretty 
good at what I do, compared to many I've met in Canada, no 
self-puffery.

Are there some American residents that could give me an idea of what 
the job situation is like for people in our field, what the pay 
scales are like etc...

I do read the job boards, but as they are as much as sales pitch as 
resumes are, I was hoping to get the straight dope. If you could 
include your location in the answer, I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks!
-- 

Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.


Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com



From Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu  Fri Dec  7 14:40:49 2001
From: Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:40:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weblog "help"
Message-ID: <p05101006b836d8944d80@[128.148.232.11]>

I've been using Blogger for a short time now with my blog, but was 
tempted into trying Greymatter since it's all run and hosted by me 
and my site, and I could easily do the comment thing. I had some 
problems with the installation, but got those sorted out, and my 
temporary site is working.

But I've found the interface (using .cgi) to be *really* annoying. I 
often have to reload the page *multiple* times to get the password to 
take, to get pages to rebuild, etc. I thought it may have just been 
me with OSX and IE 5.1, until I tried it with Netscape 6 (wouldn't 
even load the .cgi) and Opera (same problems as IE 5.1, once I got it 
running). So then I tried at home from the PC, thinking it was maybe 
OSX, but had the same problems using IE there too.

I also found it non-intuitive to change the templates. I like plain 
ol' HTML, and trying to design a template looked to be some work.

So, all that said -- I was wondering if anyone could recommend 
another blog-type software bit to use, something I could maybe run on 
my own site instead of using someone else's server. I know HTML, 
that's all. Don't know php (but could maybe start learning) or perl 
or anything like that, so the simpler, the better.

I *am* happy with Blogger. I just want to try comments without having 
to do the popup thang.

Thanks in advance!
-- 
-------------------------------
Julia Frizzell
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
glyneth at sfad.org
http://www.sfad.org/julia
http://www.theblackroad.org
"Insert pithy quote here."



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Dec  7 14:43:23 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:43:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware related]...
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B8251010E13@apollo.ti3.com>

> Ideally, I would start with just taking up space on an ISP's 
> server (get my
> own domain, and get them to host it).  If things go well, 
> then pretty soon,
> I could see getting my own webserver.  Would it be more cost 
> efficient to
> get co-location in an ISP (what do you end up paying for?  Just the
> co-location charges and admin rates - do they still charge 
> for traffic?) or

We (Ti3) co-lo. Besides paying for rack space and the sanity that
there's a network guru at beck-and-call, we also pay for bandwidth. It
is well worth it, because the big advantage to co-locating is what you
get in infrastructure. We're within the zero-mile (literally across the
street) from a SWBell CO, and the guys there peered to multiple
backbones over fiber. You also pay for (in our case; investigate your
co-lo) a "hardened" environment: secure access, a/c, backup power (they
have their own generator). We're able to run most of our servers on 24v
DC instead of AC, from what I understand helps lifetime of the box. It
also gives the clients that want a walk-through a nice warm-fuzzy that
the servers running their stuff isn't in somebody's closet next to the
unmbrella.

If/when you can afford it, go co-lo. =)

sgd



From bev at enso-company.com  Fri Dec  7 14:47:19 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:47:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
References: <p05001901b836d7b62974@[24.43.152.114]>
Message-ID: <011d01c17f61$bc078810$a2b999cf@beverlyvgh6gds>

Hi Frank,

If you would like to consider Seattle, please send your current resume,
references, etc to: info at enso-company.com .  We will forward your
information to a local associate ISP w/ Cold Fusion, etc.   Unemployment
here is very high, but there are still opportunities around for the right
people.  Be sure to include any localization skills.

Sincerely,
Bev

------------------------------------
Bev Corwin, President          Enso Company Ltd.
The Westin Building             2001 Sixth Avenue
Penthouse Suite 3403          Seattle WA 98121 USA
Telephone: 206.728.2232     Facsimile: 206.728.2262


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <framar at interlog.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:39 PM
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.


>
> I'm thinking of moving to the states for job opps in the States in
> March. I'm hoping it'll be somewhere in California, but I'm open to
> the location.
>
> My skill set includes high intermediate Cold Fusion, databases of
> various types, javascript, HTML, CSS and the peripherals skills such
> as image manipulation, all the OSs etc... Quite frankly, I'm pretty
> good at what I do, compared to many I've met in Canada, no
> self-puffery.
>
> Are there some American residents that could give me an idea of what
> the job situation is like for people in our field, what the pay
> scales are like etc...
>
> I do read the job boards, but as they are as much as sales pitch as
> resumes are, I was hoping to get the straight dope. If you could
> include your location in the answer, I sure would appreciate it.
>
> Thanks!
> --
>
> Our best destiny, as planetary cohabitants, is the development
> of what has been called "species consciousness" - something over
> and above nationalisms, blocs, religions, ethnicities.
>
>
> Frank Marion                      Framar Studios
> frank at framarstudios.com           http://www.framarstudios.com
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>





From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 14:54:03 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:54:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weblog "help"
References: <p05101006b836d8944d80@[128.148.232.11]>
Message-ID: <3C112C4D.1050509@members.evolt.org>

Hi Julia -

I've heard good things about moveable type ( http://www.movabletype.org/ 
) and LiveJournal ( http://www.livejournal.com )

hope thats helps, and happy birthday :)

.djc.

Julia Frizzell wrote:

> I've been using Blogger for a short time now with my blog, but was 
> tempted into trying Greymatter since it's all run and hosted by me and 
> my site, and I could easily do the comment thing. I had some problems 
> with the installation, but got those sorted out, and my temporary site 
> is working.
[snip]
> I *am* happy with Blogger. I just want to try comments without having to 
> do the popup thang.
> 
> Thanks in advance!





From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 14:55:43 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Dec  7 14:55:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need some tips on setting up a dotcom [hardware related]...
References: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B8251010E13@apollo.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3C112CB2.5030007@members.evolt.org>

+1 - if you have the cash, colocation is the way to go. if you don't, 
places like rackspace.com and other 'managed hosters' are a nice second 
option

.djc.

Scott Dexter wrote:


> We (Ti3) co-lo. Besides paying for rack space and the sanity that
> there's a network guru at beck-and-call, we also pay for bandwidth. It
> is well worth it, because the big advantage to co-locating is what you
> get in infrastructure. We're within the zero-mile (literally across the
> street) from a SWBell CO, and the guys there peered to multiple
> backbones over fiber. You also pay for (in our case; investigate your
> co-lo) a "hardened" environment: secure access, a/c, backup power (they
> have their own generator). We're able to run most of our servers on 24v
> DC instead of AC, from what I understand helps lifetime of the box. It
> also gives the clients that want a walk-through a nice warm-fuzzy that
> the servers running their stuff isn't in somebody's closet next to the
> unmbrella.
> 
> If/when you can afford it, go co-lo. =)





From Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu  Fri Dec  7 15:15:15 2001
From: Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:15:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weblog "help"
In-Reply-To: <3C112C4D.1050509@members.evolt.org>
References: <p05101006b836d8944d80@[128.148.232.11]>
 <3C112C4D.1050509@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05101007b836e04119f5@[128.148.232.11]>

At 2:53 PM -0600 12/7/01, Daniel J. Cody wrote:
>Hi Julia -
>
>I've heard good things about moveable type ( 
>http://www.movabletype.org/ ) and LiveJournal ( 
>http://www.livejournal.com )

I'll take a look at movabletype...a friend is using them, now that I 
look. Livejournal's site wasn't responding beyond the front page 
right now.

>hope thats helps, and happy birthday :)

awww, you remembered! No, wait, you read my blog! d'oh!

Okay, okay, tip owed for this...

<tip type="current affairs">

Always test your websites, not just from different browsers, but from 
different connection types.

That way, when the boss is away from the office and using some 
unknown connection method to view your website, the rest of your team 
won't be pointing fingers at each other ("it's the graphics!" "it's 
the java server pages!" "it's the congested pipe in/out!" "it's the 
server!") to find where the blame really lies.

</tip>
>
>.djc.
>
>Julia Frizzell wrote:
>
>>I've been using Blogger for a short time now with my blog, but was 
>>tempted into trying Greymatter since it's all run and hosted by me 
>>and my site, and I could easily do the comment thing. I had some 
>>problems with the installation, but got those sorted out, and my 
>>temporary site is working.
>[snip]
>>I *am* happy with Blogger. I just want to try comments without 
>>having to do the popup thang.
>>
>>Thanks in advance!



From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Fri Dec  7 15:19:38 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:19:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] friday's obscure bug report (NN3/win95)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207103351.00a7a008@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com>

Stumbled on this one before? (And a RFC at the end.)

_____Platform:
Netscape 3, (3.02 Gold), Win95
	(If you know any of the 6 people in the world still using the 
configuration, I'd love an opportunity to "talk" to them. <wink>)

_____Code:
<form>
	<select>
		<option>foo
		<option>bar
	</select>
</form>

_____Bug
This shows up basically fine (except significantly wider than the widest 
element). However, if you add closing option tags ( </option> ) to each 
element, the select box no longer shows up initially. It _will_ show up 
after the browser has either 1) been resized; 2) been scrolled, 3) or 
redrawn (such as pulling off and then back on screen).

I tried a few things and couldn't isolate this. I guess it's just a bug...

_____RFC:
I know </option> is a non-required tag, but I've tended to use it out of 
habit and good-hearted-thoroughness. This is now a [small] reason to 
officially NOT use the </option> tag. I'd appreciate hearing a list of 
reasons TO use it?

cheers,
nate

nate koechley
	web developer
	nate at vicksburgcollective.com
			san francisco




From kim at bonfils.com  Fri Dec  7 15:20:17 2001
From: kim at bonfils.com (Kim Bonfils)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:20:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: problem displaying Flash content
References: <20011207194135.3E20C918@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <019b01c17f65$7ce213e0$8367fea9@oemcomputer>

> Message: 2
> From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:16:56 -0500
> Subject: [thelist] problem displaying Flash content
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
>
> i built a chart in Flash because it's got some detail to it, and
while i
> want the site to handle for 640x480 users, i also don't want to
> punish those at higher res with an itty-bitty chart...
>
> however, that durn thing won't display... at least not in the
template
> i've built... but the same code displays the Flash just fine in an
> ultra-stripped HTML page...
>
> page it works in:
> http://algonquinstudios.com/table_1.asp
>
> page it don't wanna work in:
> http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test.asp
>
> another version that won't scale:
> http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test2.asp

Strange. Only thing I noticed is that in the last one the Flash movie
doesn't have a height=100% attribute.
I haven't studied the HTML code carefully, but the page looks like the
height of the table cell that contains the Flash file is somehow
fixed. That might explain why the Flash movie doesn't expand in the
vertical plane.

Hope this helps,

bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Fri Dec  7 15:24:41 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:24:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] friday's obscure bug report (NN3/win95)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207103351.00a7a008@pop3.vicksburgcollectiv
 e.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207152504.0281a2a8@mail.imaginuity.com>

On 03:21 PM 12/7/2001, nate koechley said to me:
>_____RFC:
>I know </option> is a non-required tag, but I've tended to use it out of 
>habit and good-hearted-thoroughness. This is now a [small] reason to 
>officially NOT use the </option> tag. I'd appreciate hearing a list of 
>reasons TO use it?

Because, otherwise, the site will never validate?

Meh.  Validation is a good enough reason for me.  Most of my log reports 
have NN3 down with Lynx and iCab in popularity. (Not that Lynx and iCab are 
bad, just not widely used.)

--Ben


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus.
-----------------------------------------------------------------




From lists at prydain.com  Fri Dec  7 15:34:12 2001
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:34:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <p05001901b836d7b62974@[24.43.152.114]>
Message-ID: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIOEPFDDAA.lists@prydain.com>

In a word, the job market is unbalanced here in the Silicon Valley.
Tons of people in the tech insudtry flocked here when the jobs were
abundant, and now that most of the jobs have disappeared, there are
tons of very qualified people living off of unemployment or moving out
of the area.

There are still jobs available, of course.  It's just that these days
you really have to fight to get them, since the companies know that
they have tons of potential employees to pick from, and can therefore
be incredibly picky.  For example, I have seen very few job postings
lately that do not require a bachelors degree, where that was almost
unheard of two years ago.

So unless you've already got a job lined up, I'd suggest shooting for
somewhere other than the San Francisco bay area.  It *is* the best
place in the world to live (from the native's point of view, anyhow),
but it's a lousy place to job hunt these days.

--ray





From lists at prydain.com  Fri Dec  7 15:38:33 2001
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:38:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <004101c17f4a$456be190$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIEEPGDDAA.lists@prydain.com>

spinhead wrote:
> Is everyone checking the evolt.org job postings regularly?

Evolt job postings??  Cripes!!  I never even realized that existed.
It's a shame there's not a top-level button for this, to make it more
visible.

Thanks for the heads-up!

--ray





From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 15:41:52 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:41:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
References: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIEEPGDDAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <3C113782.3080607@members.evolt.org>

The last 5 jobs postings are also listed and linked to their full 
articles in the right hand sidebar. Right below the 'contact' link, and 
right above the 'highest rated articles' section :)

.djc.

Ray Hill wrote:

> spinhead wrote:
> 
>>Is everyone checking the evolt.org job postings regularly?
>>
> 
> Evolt job postings??  Cripes!!  I never even realized that existed.
> It's a shame there's not a top-level button for this, to make it more
> visible.
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up!





From april at farstrider.org  Fri Dec  7 15:49:32 2001
From: april at farstrider.org (April)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:49:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIOEPFDDAA.lists@prydain.com>
References: <p05001901b836d7b62974@[24.43.152.114]>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011207154524.0097dd70@mail.farstrider.org>

Same for Austin, TX.  Basically, any place you heard was an easy place to 
get a tech job 6 months ago, probably isn't a good idea right 
now.  Instead, you might want to try looking at towns people would never 
ever think of looking for a tech job in.  And make sure you have a job 
lined up before you move!  I've got a friend who has been unemployed for 3+ 
months, and not that bad of a resume, because he doesn't have an absolutely 
killer resume and because it's Austin.


>So unless you've already got a job lined up, I'd suggest shooting for
>somewhere other than the San Francisco bay area.  It *is* the best
>place in the world to live (from the native's point of view, anyhow),
>but it's a lousy place to job hunt these days.
>
>--ray




From lists at prydain.com  Fri Dec  7 15:51:08 2001
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Dec  7 15:51:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] job opp
In-Reply-To: <3C113782.3080607@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIIEPHDDAA.lists@prydain.com>

> The last 5 jobs postings are also listed and linked to their full
> articles in the right hand sidebar. Right below the 'contact' link,
> and right above the 'highest rated articles' section :)

Yeah, that's how I eventually found it once I knew to look.

The reason I think I hadn't seen it before is that it's not visible
when the page loads.  You have to scroll down to see it.  And on a
page like this, if you're scrolling down you're usually looking at the
list of articles that you're scrolling through.  So it's essentially
in a blind spot.

Thanks for pointing it out, though,

--ray





From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 16:04:53 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 16:04:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: problem displaying Flash content
In-Reply-To: <019b01c17f65$7ce213e0$8367fea9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <200112072204.fB7M4q0E014797@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Kim Bonfils" <kim at bonfils.com>
[...]
> > page it works in:
> > http://algonquinstudios.com/table_1.asp
> >
> > page it don't wanna work in:
> > http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test.asp
> >
> > another version that won't scale:
> > http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test2.asp
> 
> Strange. Only thing I noticed is that in the last one the Flash movie
> doesn't have a height=100% attribute. I haven't studied the HTML code
> carefully, but the page looks like the height of the table cell that
> contains the Flash file is somehow fixed. That might explain why the
> Flash movie doesn't expand in the vertical plane.

it does look like, but that's not it... i don't define any heights... but 
yes, it exhibits the behavior of a cell with a specified height (or 
width, as detailed in figure 9 at 
http://evolt.org/article/list/20/15177/)...

still stumped...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  7 16:11:08 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Dec  7 16:11:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011207154524.0097dd70@mail.farstrider.org>
References: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIOEPFDDAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <200112072211.fB7MB70E015153@leo.evolt.org>

> From:April <april at farstrider.org>
[...]
> Instead, you might want to try looking at towns people would never
> ever think of looking for a tech job in.  And make sure you have a job
> lined up before you move!  I've got a friend who has been
[...]

like, say, buffalo?

<tip>
When job hunting, don't forget to hit the sites for the Chambers of 
Commerce of other cities (nearby or not, depending on your 
desperation level) to see what's available.  They often link to local 
job sites or resources.  Most communities have an independent job 
bank of some sort as well.  And many newspapers and their 
classifieds are also online.
</tip>



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Dec  7 16:18:58 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Dec  7 16:18:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
Message-ID: <AE9BEBC586A48B4BA47843C4148B82512E688A@apollo.ti3.com>

Also, keep your options open. Check openings for techie people in
non-techie environs...

(an idea)

sgd




From sarah at meatlike.com  Fri Dec  7 16:31:43 2001
From: sarah at meatlike.com (Sarah Heffron)
Date: Fri Dec  7 16:31:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIOEPFDDAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <KJEOLOBOBIEMEOILFLKHAEOKCAAA.sarah@meatlike.com>

I moved to California (San Jose to be exact) more than 3 months ago and I
still haven't found a job. I'm even having tough luck with retail stores
(Toys R Us etc.) hiring for seasonal help. The job market here is quite
depressing and it's making me quite depressed, but I have no money to move
elsewhere now. I could note that if in anyone in the bay area has any
connections for webdev work, please send them my way.

Sarah



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ray Hill
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:35 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.


In a word, the job market is unbalanced here in the Silicon Valley.
Tons of people in the tech insudtry flocked here when the jobs were
abundant, and now that most of the jobs have disappeared, there are
tons of very qualified people living off of unemployment or moving out
of the area.

There are still jobs available, of course.  It's just that these days
you really have to fight to get them, since the companies know that
they have tons of potential employees to pick from, and can therefore
be incredibly picky.  For example, I have seen very few job postings
lately that do not require a bachelors degree, where that was almost
unheard of two years ago.

So unless you've already got a job lined up, I'd suggest shooting for
somewhere other than the San Francisco bay area.  It *is* the best
place in the world to live (from the native's point of view, anyhow),
but it's a lousy place to job hunt these days.

--ray



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From april at farstrider.org  Fri Dec  7 16:56:18 2001
From: april at farstrider.org (April)
Date: Fri Dec  7 16:56:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <KJEOLOBOBIEMEOILFLKHAEOKCAAA.sarah@meatlike.com>
References: <BEEBJLFFEDJODCKFPOBIOEPFDDAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011207165032.009dfcd0@mail.farstrider.org>

I know how that one goes.  I was in the same position for a while.

Has your tech background on your resume been a liability to you?

When I got desperate, I started looking for secretarial stuff, and kept 
getting turned down because they didn't think I'd "fit in" or I would "get 
bored".  And this before an interview-- sheerly based on the fact that my 
last job had been as a web designer.  I ended up rewriting my work history 
from Associate Web Designer, to Assistant Content Editor, and playing my 
design and project management experience off as adding commas to webpage 
text.  Then I got a few leads.

Anyway, just wondering if it's like that elsewhere, or if it's just an 
Austin thing.


At 02:33 PM 12/7/2001 -0800, Sarah Heffron wrote:
>I moved to California (San Jose to be exact) more than 3 months ago and I
>still haven't found a job. I'm even having tough luck with retail stores
>(Toys R Us etc.) hiring for seasonal help. The job market here is quite
>depressing and it's making me quite depressed, but I have no money to move
>elsewhere now. I could note that if in anyone in the bay area has any
>connections for webdev work, please send them my way.
>
>Sarah
>




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Fri Dec  7 17:17:18 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 17:17:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
Message-ID: <003501c17f75$b7ec4360$2aae7dc2@mpgalvin>

Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will win?

Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a SQL database, is there any
noticeable difference between them?

Michael




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Fri Dec  7 17:28:46 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Fri Dec  7 17:28:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
Message-ID: <v02140b45b836fef48114@[10.112.1.122]>

First off: Use whatever gets your project done, makes your client happy.... ;-)


At 1:21 AM 12/6/1, Joergen Ramskov wrote:
> Proprietary may not be the best word, but I still think it is
> important to know that Flash is a Macromedia product, SVG is an
> W3C recommendation. This means that SVG probably will be supported
> directly in future browsers (there is limited support in Mozilla
> already if you enable it), while Flash will forever need the Flash plugin.

The Macromedia Flash Player has been included in the Netscape browsers for
years, has been distributed with and is now embedded with the Microsoft
browsers and operating systems, is distributed with the Opera browser and
other software. It's already there.

There are various SVG rendering engines, but only the proprietary Adobe
plugin has any measurable distribution. Microsoft has shown no signs of
putting SVG in. Mozilla is working on an eventual subset of SVG features:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/

(The SVG file format may be designed by committee, but the Adobe SVG Plugin
Source Code is not published or open... that's the big distinction here,
between a file format definition and an actual usable implementation. Just
because a committee agrees after awhile on a file format definition,
doesn't mean that they'll include someone's proprietary implementation for
it in their own software.)

For context, PNG was the very first W3C Recommendation, 'way back in 1996.
It didn't become an ISO Standard like VRML did. Merely specifying a graphic
format is not sufficient to actually view it, much less view it in any
predictable way.

But in your project it sounds like you can mandate what software people
install, so you have more freedom than common in web design.

jd






John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 18:31:08 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Fri Dec  7 18:31:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP / PL Ad Server Recco
Message-ID: <20011208003256.65050.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi:

Anyone had any particularly good experiences with any PHP- or PERL-based ad server/management
applications?

tia

/rg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From gozz at gozz.com  Fri Dec  7 18:32:36 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Fri Dec  7 18:32:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG versus Flash?
In-Reply-To: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>
References: <134725302.1007630624825.JavaMail.root@boots>
Message-ID: <p04310103b836ff20feae@[192.168.1.100]>

>  > Anything that can be shown by the Flash player can be created/updated
>>  via a database ... you just need to produce text files with the
>>  backend software of your choice.
>
>Okay - is it easy? How do you do it with ex. java?

You just need to have an action in your Flash movie that calls a file 
containing text in a format Flash can use ... can be .jsp, .asp .cfm 
... Flash doesn't care ... you just need to either give it a string 
of name/value pairs like

var1=value one&var2=value two&var3=whatever

or make it well formed XML and manipulate the values into usable 
values with ActionScript's XML Object:

http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/action_scripts/objects/xml_object.html

>  > Same thing with ActionScript on all counts minus learning
>>  ActionScript, which IS ECMAscript compliant ... if you know
>>  JavaScript, learning ActionScript is just a matter of getting
>>  familiar with the Flash specific methods and properties.
>
>Well, I need to learn even less with SVG, correct?

Don't know ... maybe. But if you're going to learn something new, 
seems the smart thing top do would be to learn something that's 
likely going to be applicable to future projects ... but who knows, 
maybe that will be SVG in a year ... but right now, most of my work 
at least has been integrating Flash with the backend ... works nice.
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From sskulic at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 18:47:05 2001
From: sskulic at yahoo.com (Sasa Kulic)
Date: Fri Dec  7 18:47:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
In-Reply-To: <003501c17f75$b7ec4360$2aae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net> wrote:
> Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will win?
> 
> Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a
> SQL database, is there any
> noticeable difference between them?

Here we go, this will be a long thread.

I think it depends on the platform you are working
with. 
Linux/Unix -> PHP
Windows -> ASP

=====
-------------------------------------
Sasa Kulic
http://www.sashadesign.com/

______________________________________________________ 
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca



From asifsuria at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 18:55:51 2001
From: asifsuria at yahoo.com (Asif Suria)
Date: Fri Dec  7 18:55:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <KJEOLOBOBIEMEOILFLKHAEOKCAAA.sarah@meatlike.com>
Message-ID: <20011208005738.88556.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com>

The place with the biggest boom has the greatest fall.
I have tried looking for a job in the Bay Area and
there are practically no jobs there. I liked someone's
idea of looking for techie jobs in non-techie places.

My apologies if this post is off topic. 

Asif

--- Sarah Heffron <sarah at meatlike.com> wrote:
> I could note that if in anyone in the
> bay area has any
> connections for webdev work, please send them my
> way.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From jonhall at ozline.net  Fri Dec  7 18:58:36 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Fri Dec  7 18:58:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
References: <003501c17f75$b7ec4360$2aae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <023401c17f83$b1b72e20$a41f88d8@ns2>

1. Neither.
2. Yes

jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 6:20 PM
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp


> Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will win?
>
> Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a SQL database, is there
any
> noticeable difference between them?
>
> Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Fri Dec  7 19:03:35 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:03:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
References: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c17f84$8ca94a40$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin>

Point taken, Sasa, but regardless of platform (and okay, so a Unix box is
gonna be faster than an NT box under normal circumstances)...?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sasa Kulic" <sskulic at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] php vs asp


|
| --- Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net> wrote:
| > Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will win?
| >
| > Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a
| > SQL database, is there any
| > noticeable difference between them?
|
| Here we go, this will be a long thread.
|
| I think it depends on the platform you are working
| with.
| Linux/Unix -> PHP
| Windows -> ASP
|
| =====
| -------------------------------------
| Sasa Kulic
| http://www.sashadesign.com/
|
| ______________________________________________________
| Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|




From paw at f2s.com  Fri Dec  7 19:04:13 2001
From: paw at f2s.com (paw at f2s.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:04:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] whether SMIL has any real-world use, or future
Message-ID: <1007773560.3c116778299a6@webmail.freedom2surf.net>

Hi Richard.

Thanks for the link, and the interrest.

>>whether SMIL has any real-world use, or future

It believe it does. The SMIL 1.0 Spec. is very usefull. The 2.0 spec is another 
story.
 The 2.0 is in my opinion obsolete. The Spec is HUGE, and with both Flash and 
advanced DHTML on the scene, there is really no point. SVG can share that same 
wet grave.
The thing I like about the SMIL 1.0 spec. is that it?s short and easy to learn.
First you get the hang of it, it?s really easy to mix, place, and syncronize 
all kinds of formats (movies, sounds, graphics, Flash, text (tip:Don?t do the 
text thing))
You?re right about the processer. Use SMIL and watch your machine turn muslim.
Another problem is to get SMIL to run in the first place. It?s very picky when 
it comes to MIMEtype settings, so you can?t just tosh it at some "My-first-
Webhotel-and-the-Supporter-is-a-crackhead server". This is also why I use the 
Quicktime plugin (I?m a walking popup). Quicktime loves SMIL, and QT is in 
itself is a very powerfull plugin.
I did some testing with HTML+TIME too, which was great, and very easy to put to 
use.. eeeeh... I mean extremely great is you are using IE5.5/6 :-( 
HTML+TIME is great for some quick and dirty sync, but you have to ad some SMIL
(e) to gain full control.
Real Networks was part of the team that developed SMIL, but Real Player is 
AAAARRRG to work with. Then again, it might become a better article if I 
include something on Real Player.
Sorry, too many words here :-#
Bottomline : In Spring Microsoft gave SMIL the green light, The 1.0 spec. is 
easy to learn, the machines have gotten faster, HTML+TIME is here, and SMIL is 
still part of the XML family.

"integer - does not match SMIL" ?? I don?t understand that. Can you help me 
out ?

Sorry about the bad English.

Bottoms up,
Paw.



------------------------------------------------- 
Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ 



From eol1 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 19:20:08 2001
From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Eöl)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:20:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
In-Reply-To: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208012155.15203.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com>

Just to start the battle :P

PHP (on apache, !IIS (I have no experience with php
IIS)) runs just fine on windows  (all my corp
production servers run php/apache/mysql on windows. 
Yes they all compile just fine on win32, no they
aren't just for *nix (common misperception).

Flipside .. mod_asp (for apache) sucks bad.  If you
like asp, run IIS.

 From a pure which is more useful side,  I personally
believe php is a the more useful language of the two
to learn as its cross-platform.  You learn it and you
can run it whether your biz is a *nix environment
(read apache) or a windows enviroments (read apache on
win32).

I won't comment on php on IIS since a) i have never
ran it on IIS b) I don't see why anybody in their
right mind would ever even run IIS (other than a
non-techie biz guy telling them they are required to
run IIS and the techie  not successfully arguing how
IIS is a useless buggy insecure bloated non-reliable
piece of crap and that you are expected to pay for
that piece of junk)

ASP is the IIS world only.  But that could suit you
just fine as many developers get sucked into the IIS
world  and never leave.  If you are planning to never
leave the IIS world, learn asp.  99 out of 100 times I
would say IIS corps are running asp on IIS and !php on
IIS.  

Cheers,

E?l

--- Sasa Kulic <sskulic at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net> wrote:
> > Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will
> win?
> > 
> > Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a
> > SQL database, is there any
> > noticeable difference between them?
> 
> Here we go, this will be a long thread.
> 
> I think it depends on the platform you are working
> with. 
> Linux/Unix -> PHP
> Windows -> ASP
> 
> =====
> -------------------------------------
> Sasa Kulic
> http://www.sashadesign.com/
> 
>
______________________________________________________
> 
> Send your holiday cheer with
> http://greetings.yahoo.ca
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From jonhall at ozline.net  Fri Dec  7 19:22:49 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:22:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
References: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c17f84$8ca94a40$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <025601c17f87$145c7280$a41f88d8@ns2>

There is no such thing as normal circumstances, and you have managed to ask
the two most debated questions there are, in which web app server is best,
and the *nix vs Windows question. There is no blanket answer, just debates.
To answer your other question though, regardless of the platform, yes there
are differences between ASP and PHP when you hook them up to a SQL database.

I'm not going to touch the OS question, other than to say that the biggest
difference in speed between the *nix's and Windows is the speed at which you
to become proficient in either.

How about getting more specific with the questions before we start another
unnecessary flame war.

jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] php vs asp


> Point taken, Sasa, but regardless of platform (and okay, so a Unix box is
> gonna be faster than an NT box under normal circumstances)...?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sasa Kulic" <sskulic at yahoo.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [thelist] php vs asp
>
>
> |
> | --- Michael Galvin <mpgalvin at eircom.net> wrote:
> | > Attack of the killer acronyms!  Which one will win?
> | >
> | > Seriously, if both php and asp are connected to a
> | > SQL database, is there any
> | > noticeable difference between them?
> |
> | Here we go, this will be a long thread.
> |
> | I think it depends on the platform you are working
> | with.
> | Linux/Unix -> PHP
> | Windows -> ASP
>






From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Fri Dec  7 19:41:53 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:41:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp [More specific]
References: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c17f84$8ca94a40$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin> <025601c17f87$145c7280$a41f88d8@ns2>
Message-ID: <000e01c17f89$e7ccf2a0$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin>

Okay, Jon ;)

Say I'm starting a dotcom right now.  I known ASP (with VBScript) and reckon
Access will be enough to begin with as a DB, but I want to be able to move
up to SQL relatively painlessly as soon as things get iffy - with ASP I have
that chance better than I would with PHP.

My question would be (and taking into account Eol's remarks about never
leaving an IIS environment) would I get more bang for my buck if I learned
PHP right here, right now and use that as my dynamic web page generator, or
should I just concentrate on making the ASP as good as I can (I have zero
experience of PHP and I can imagine a lot of trawling the web looking for
"how do I..." sites, which is not really a concern of mine when it comes to
ASP).

Regardless of the OS, the webserver, the version of PHP and (quite possibly)
the database, is there any real point in learning and developing with PHP
(other than my own insatiable thirst for knowledge ;).

Lordy, I do believe that's even more general...  "Should I learn PHP?"
indeed!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Hall" <jonhall at ozline.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] php vs asp


| How about getting more specific with the questions before we start another
| unnecessary flame war.
|
| jon

<unnecessary flame war beginnings snipped>




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Fri Dec  7 19:45:26 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 19:45:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best Practices for Web QA process
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392004126142@arnold.bedrock.com>

+| wondering if anyone had any good resources, processes, best 
+| practices,
+| articles, etc. that might help everyone get up to speed and 
+| into the idea
+| that testing is a major part of the dev cycle?

Hi Martin,

Joel has some good info on this...
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000067.html
(Joel also has a cheap [and probably good, since Joel eats his own dog food]
bug tracking DB, called FogBUGZ -- http://www.fogcreek.com/FogBUGZ/)


The SEI is about the best source of info around on the Software Engineering
Lifecycle...
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/


TechRepublic has been collecting a wealth of valuable content...
http://www.techrepublic.com/article.jhtml?id=r00820011011loz01.htm&fromtm=e0
41


This is a good directory site...
http://www.softwareqatest.com/


And of course, there are the near-transcendent philosophies of "six-sigma",
TQM, Kaizen, and the lot.

Hmm... looking back, these are some good links... maybe I should figure out
how to contribute them to D.E.O. Anyone?

<rory disposition="so tired, I think I'm on autopilot" alt="|P"/>



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Dec  7 20:01:45 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Dec  7 20:01:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp [More specific]
Message-ID: <01c17f8c$8c6bab60$d84d149a@rudy>

> Regardless of the OS, the webserver, the version of PHP and
> (quite possibly) the database...

make that "quite probably"

see, if you're going to have a database-driven website, it might be a good
idea to think about exactly what you want to use the database *for*

from that starting point, you will answer questions like

  ... whether to store code snippets or plain text

  ... how to make your site navigation dynamic and how to represent the
heirarchy of the site's sections and subsections in the database

  ... whether you want a breadcrumb trail and how to code it so it's
automatic on any page in the hierarchy

  ... how to handle "page x of y" logic and not retrieve all nine hundred
and thirty-seven rows if you're just going to show ten of them on the page

  ... whether to store username and password in the database, and how to
design the login and reminder and send-me-my-password routines

all of the above considerations need to be planned and designed and the
specs created long before you start coding

having said all that, let me add that you should learn the language you
feel most comfortable with

if you have any programming background at all, the language that is most
comfortable will make itself known to you quickly and you won't need
anybody else's advice

if you have no programming background, forget asp and strongly consider
cold fusion

(o;


rudy




From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Dec  7 20:02:46 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Dec  7 20:02:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp [More specific]
References: <20011208004853.65729.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c17f84$8ca94a40$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin> <025601c17f87$145c7280$a41f88d8@ns2> <000e01c17f89$e7ccf2a0$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <021f01c17f8b$f6ba9810$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Consider your purpose: are you looking to learn a new language and expand
your horizons? PHP shouldn't be a tough jump from ASP.

If you're looking to get a job done and have a deadline or just want to get
down to business, there are about a million sites utilizing the ASP on MSSQL
combination. Should work for you, too. Start with Access, and make (IIRC) a
few minor tweaks when MSSQL is in the budget.

spinhead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] php vs asp [More specific]


> Okay, Jon ;)
>
> Say I'm starting a dotcom right now.  I known ASP (with VBScript) and
reckon
> Access will be enough to begin with as a DB, but I want to be able to move
> up to SQL relatively painlessly as soon as things get iffy - with ASP I
have
> that chance better than I would with PHP.
>
> My question would be (and taking into account Eol's remarks about never
> leaving an IIS environment) would I get more bang for my buck if I learned
> PHP right here, right now and use that as my dynamic web page generator,
or
> should I just concentrate on making the ASP as good as I can (I have zero
> experience of PHP and I can imagine a lot of trawling the web looking for
> "how do I..." sites, which is not really a concern of mine when it comes
to
> ASP).
>
> Regardless of the OS, the webserver, the version of PHP and (quite
possibly)
> the database, is there any real point in learning and developing with PHP
> (other than my own insatiable thirst for knowledge ;).
>
> Lordy, I do believe that's even more general...  "Should I learn PHP?"
> indeed!
>




From morbus at disobey.com  Fri Dec  7 20:27:54 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Fri Dec  7 20:27:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] My O'Reilly, OS X, Apache Article
Message-ID: <p051010007c25b20d7072@[63.173.138.148]>

Hey there. I just gotta toot my own horn here. O'Reilly has released the
first part of my primer for Apache and OS X. It's geared toward OS X users,
but the information concerning Apache is applicable to any Apache
installation:

 >*** Featured Articles ***
 >
 >Apache Web-Serving with Mac OS X: Part 1
 >In this first part of a multi-part series, Kevin Hemenway shows
 >you how to start serving web pages directly from your Mac using
 >its built-in Apache server.
 >
 >http://oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/12/07/apache.html

-- 
Morbus Iff ( i'm the droid you're looking for )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus



From paw at f2s.com  Fri Dec  7 21:05:55 2001
From: paw at f2s.com (paw at f2s.com)
Date: Fri Dec  7 21:05:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Problem # Att : John Handelaar, Michael Pemberton.
Message-ID: <1007780863.3c1183ff97d72@webmail.freedom2surf.net>

I have PHPTriad installed. I think maybe I?ll have to reinstall.
This is the error I get when I try to launch PHPAdmin :

<code>MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost' 
(10061) in C:\apache\htdocs\phpmyadmin\lib.inc.php on line 255</code>

This is line 255 :
<code>$link = $connect_func($cfgServer['host'], $cfgServer['user'], $cfgServer
['password']) or mysql_die();</code>
As you suggested, I checked if the MySQL was running as a service. It was 
listed, but there was no status.
Checked the filepath, and that was ok too.
MySQL does actually start, but it shuts down immediately.
Thanks for your tips. It gave me the chance to investigate further.
Is PHPTriad the best to go with ?
What do you guys use ??

Best regards

Pawd.



------------------------------------------------- 
Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ 



From mccreath at ak.net  Fri Dec  7 21:30:28 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (mccreath)
Date: Fri Dec  7 21:30:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp [More specific]
In-Reply-To: <000e01c17f89$e7ccf2a0$09ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <AKELIMCDPENDPCLOGDKEOEGNDJAA.mccreath@ak.net>

> Regardless of the OS, the webserver, the version of PHP and
> (quite possibly)
> the database, is there any real point in learning and developing with PHP
> (other than my own insatiable thirst for knowledge ;).
>
> Lordy, I do believe that's even more general...  "Should I learn PHP?"
> indeed!

Hi, Michael --

You've gotten some good answers already, but I just want to throw in a
comment.

If you know ASP and you're diligent about maintaining your IIS server, then
start with that. There's a lot to be gained from the inherent connections
between the two, and moving from Access to SQL Server will only increase
those gains.

If you're good with ASP, you can pick up PHP without too much difficulty.
I'm in the process of it right now. At work I'm in a total MS environment,
and on the side I'm working with a non-profit running
Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP.

My personal feeling, as a non-sysadmin, is that it seems to make more sense
to go one way or the other (MS or Open Source), and focus on proficiency, as
spinhead said.

Rudy mentioned Cold Fusion, which is a really valid option if 1) you want to
use something other than ASP and 2) you can pony up the money for the
server. I've only worked with it minimally (helping out on some mundane
Evolt stuff), but it's a well-designed and easy-to-learn system.

IOW, play to your strengths, but be ready to expand. :)

David





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Dec  7 21:51:07 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Dec  7 21:51:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL Problem # Att : John Handelaar, Michael
  Pemberton.
In-Reply-To: <1007780863.3c1183ff97d72@webmail.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207195200.02f7a748@baratta.com>

At 07:07 PM 12/7/2001, you wrote:
>MySQL does actually start, but it shuts down immediately.

You need to get mySQL up and running before you can connect to it. Check 
the mySQL logs and see if it tells you why it's shutting down.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From sskulic at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 21:55:24 2001
From: sskulic at yahoo.com (Sasa Kulic)
Date: Fri Dec  7 21:55:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
In-Reply-To: <20011208012155.15203.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208035712.56414.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

--- E?l <eol1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Just to start the battle :P
> 
> PHP (on apache, !IIS (I have no experience with php
> IIS)) runs just fine on windows  (all my corp
> production servers run php/apache/mysql on windows. 
> Yes they all compile just fine on win32, no they
> aren't just for *nix (common misperception).

I have that configuration on one of my home machines
and I am playing with it. Well, I might have been too
general with my response, but really this kind of
discussions is like PC <-> Mac or Intel <-> AMD
discussions.
my 2 cents.

=====
-------------------------------------
Sasa Kulic
http://www.sashadesign.com/

______________________________________________________ 
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Dec  7 23:18:52 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Dec  7 23:18:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] d.e.o. how to submit a link ... was Best Practices for Web QA process
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392004126142@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <011801c17fa8$588db600$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Rory,

----- Original Message -----
From: <Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com>

| Hmm... looking back, these are some good links... maybe I should figure
out
| how to contribute them to D.E.O. Anyone?

Go to
http://directory.evolt.org/
Find the category you wan to submit your links to.  Then on the right side,
suggest a link.

or,

Get the customizable bookmarklet, also on the right side.  This was just
added this week, added improvements, instructions, etc.

HTH,

Michele





From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Fri Dec  7 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Fri Dec  7 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 07-DEC-01
Message-ID: <200112080555.fB85t28T030007@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 07-DEC-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

evolt.org FAQ: How To Write A How-To (Author: spinhead)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/9741/18250/index.html

So, you've realized that your comrades in the evolt.org community
could really use whatever excellent idea is rattling around in your
head (or your code.) You say you'd love to write an article, but
don't know where to start? Step right this way, folks . . .




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com  Sat Dec  8 01:05:36 2001
From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft)
Date: Sat Dec  8 01:05:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weblog "help"
In-Reply-To: <p05101006b836d8944d80@[128.148.232.11]>
References: <p05101006b836d8944d80@[128.148.232.11]>
Message-ID: <1007794950.1671.5.camel@mrhat.dynip.com>

On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 14:42, Julia Frizzell wrote:

> So, all that said -- I was wondering if anyone could recommend 
> another blog-type software bit to use, something I could maybe run on 
> my own site instead of using someone else's server. I know HTML, 
> that's all. Don't know php (but could maybe start learning) or perl 
> or anything like that, so the simpler, the better.

If your web hosting company offers MySQL, you might be interested in
trying MyPHPblog ( http://myphpblog.sourceforge.net ).

<shameless self plug>
its a project i've been working on sparingly for the past 6 months.  it
started as a home grown replacement so I wouldn't have to use Blogger
anymore, and grew from there.  its got all the features you're probably
looking for, and will only get better as its a work in progress(but very
fast and stable).  I'd be happy to offer any help in getting it up and
running for you.  You can see it in action on my website at
http://www.webhack.com
</shameless self plug>

jeremy





From cache at dowebs.com  Sat Dec  8 01:23:27 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Sat Dec  8 01:23:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent cause?
In-Reply-To: <3C10FF5E.20508@windyhilldesign.com>
Message-ID: <3C115DD0.29781.346A4B4@localhost>

> Can anyone give me a clue as to what might be causing one user to get
> a bad referrer error on a form?  The cgi script is a slight
> modification of Matt's FormMail.  It hasn't been changed for 6 months,
> it had been working normally, and works when I test it now.  The
> referrer that the script error handler reported as being in error is
> one of the referrers in the referrer array.  

Hi Heather,

It could be a number of things. First thing to do, find out what 
referrer formmail is receiving. Place the following on line 34 (just 
above the @referrer = line) and have your user try it (you might want 
to create a copy with a different name while testing because this 
will kill the script)

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print "referrer is $ENV{'HTTP_REFERER'}";
exit;

That way the script will fail and report back the referrer that it 
received. Once you've done that the problem should be obvious, or 
at least you'll have a starting point. I'd look for a Perl metacharacter 
in the referrer, or no referrer at all (depending on your "slight
 modification").

It's a weird coincidence that you posted a message about formmail. 
Just the other day I was reviewing our server error logs and saw 
that 14 times in the last month different domains on our servers 
were getting "file not found: cgi-bin/formmail.pl" errors. We've never 
allowed a cgi-bin on our servers or allowed formmail. Those errors 
were coming from a robot scanning our cornor of the web, looking 
for a spam relay. Matt Wright's FormMail.pl is the most widely used 
spam relay on the web. And since you are relying on the referrer 
array, your installation IS a spam relay.

A lazy spammer can  trick FormMail into not even using the 
@referrer array and substitute his victim's email address for the 
recipient. But enterprising spammers (ones who come looking for 
you with robots) will send a fake referrer, making FormMail think the 
form is coming from a referrer in your @referrer array, again 
substituting his victim's email address for the recipient. These tricks 
are well documented, easily available, and widely used by 
professional spammers to turn your FormMail into a spam relay 
server. 

In addition to being a spam relay FormMail is a portal for a "denial 
of service attack". Since it's easy to automate using FormMail to 
hijack your server's email program, it's easy to throw a million 
emails through it, bogging your server down or crashing it.

You may think that FormMail's vulnerability is not your problem. In a 
sense you're right, it's Matt's problem, one he's failed to own up to. 
But, have someone stuff a million spam emails through your relay 
and get 10K angry emails back because your server admin contact 
is in the expanded email headers and you'll realize it is your 
problem too.

The good news is: FormMail is easy to fix. 

Remove lines 74, 75 & 76
############
    else {
        $check_referer = 1;
    }
###########
Those lines allow a submission with no referrer (Matt wasn't 
thinking!) and allows a spammer to send 
http://example.com/formmail.pl?message=GOTCHA&recipient=you
@your.com
from a location field (which does not produce a referrer).

That takes care of the lazy spammer. A professional spammer who 
fakes the referrer with an LWP agent is a little harder. FormMail is 
designed to be used by multiple domains sending emails to known 
recipients. If you are letting visitors enter a recipient of their choice 
you have a spam relay by design. But, if your recipient is in a 
hidden field (as it should be) then the script needs to check the 
submitted recipient against an array of approved recipients. To do 
this you need to get a list of approved recipient emails from all of 
the people authorized to have a form pointing to your FormMail 
script. You then add them to an array on the line below $mailprog = 
'/usr/lib/sendmail'; like so

@recipients = qw(me at my.com you at your.com);

(note the space between each email address)

Then on the line below &parse_form; place this line

unless("@recipients" =~ 
/$Config{'recipient'}/){&error('no_recipient')}

That will cause the script to exit reporting that no recipient was 
submitted (technically not true). You can be nice to the bandit by 
changing line 576 from "No Recipient was specified" to "An 
Unauthorized Recipient was specified" but that's up to your sense 
of 'fair play'. 

Please, Heather, make the above changes. This is a hot topic on 
many server mail lists. Subscribe to cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com 
or cobalt-security at list.cobalt.com and bring up FormMail.pl and 
watch the days of bitter ranting. BTW, the above fixes were tested 
by numerous long-time subscribers to those 2 lists and passes the 
minimum recommendations for hardening the script.

Feel free to contact me offlist if you have questions, need help or 
want a fully hardened version of Matt's script.

Sincerly

keith



From drifterlee at iavbbs.com  Sat Dec  8 01:28:02 2001
From: drifterlee at iavbbs.com (Drifterlee)
Date: Sat Dec  8 01:28:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Jobs in the US
Message-ID: <009c01c17fba$1d7c1400$3ba345d1@mshome.net>

Hi: In regards to looking for a web job in an unusual area, that is how I
started out. I live in a small rural town and figured that I would do
websites for free, then cheap and finally a decent amount as I got a
reputation - then move on to the "big city:" Well, as it turned out, this
small town was just getting ready to get into technology and now I have all
the local sites wrapped up and have lots of work - all by word of mouth.
None of the municipalities were even on line and so I set that all up for
the local governments and am also the resident techy. Granted, I am not
getting rich, but I have steady work and it pays the bills. When the economy
picks up I hope to get higher paying assignments, but for now, this is not
too bad. In the big city you are competing against all the laid off workers.
In a small town you are the only game in town.
Drifterlee




From persist1 at io.com  Sat Dec  8 02:00:18 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sat Dec  8 02:00:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] php vs asp
In-Reply-To: <025601c17f87$145c7280$a41f88d8@ns2>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112080147400.3708-100000@bermuda.io.com>

On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Jon Hall wrote:

> I'm not going to touch the OS question, other than to say that the biggest
> difference in speed between the *nix's and Windows is the speed at which you
> to become proficient in either.

Heh heh.  Very funny.

However, this points back to a classic engineer's argument.

Back in the day, engineer-types laughed at the Macintosh because there was
no way for the end user to get into the guts of the system; everything was
hidden by the GUI layer.  (AppleScript helps, but it doesn't provide the
same level of access that you could get with DOS or PRODOS.

Conversely, I think this has a lot to do with why so many Web developers
(including and especially Yours Truly) hold such contempt for IIS.

Windows is easier to learn because you don't have as much to learn.

You also don't have the same level of control over the system, and the
system itself is harder to scale.

Try maintaining a IIS-served, DB-driven site with nothing more than FTP
access, and you'll understand why I'm such a fan of *x.

To be honest, if the site you're building isn't horribly complicated the
times you'll need more than filesystem-management skills on a properly
configured *x server are few in number... because Apache does a good job
of ensuring that the various tools you'll need to keep the site running
are compartmentalized.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From diego at minid.net  Sat Dec  8 02:10:02 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Sat Dec  8 02:10:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Jobs in the US
References: <009c01c17fba$1d7c1400$3ba345d1@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <3C11CB11.6010904@minid.net>

Here in Argentina things are hardest...

almost not much webdesign jobs are opening...

What i find really annoying when people here looks for a websidesigner 
they want a print designer... wich is totally another world...

also they ask u for a lot of disciplines, like if they?re looking for an 
experienced programmer... they want it all... calm down dude...

I just want the web full paid... no more free services... maybe just 
news and some free content websites like mine... but all the features 
should be payable in every site, this could help to stop dotcom down 
economy pretty well... also with this companies could start to hire more 
people and get better systems to pay for the web...

is not too late to make this real... and it will be better an 1 big 
website controlling the entire planet with better payable services like 
Yahoo or Terralycos...

i just want the best for all.




From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Dec  8 02:39:27 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Sat Dec  8 02:39:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Jobs in the US
In-Reply-To: <3C11CB11.6010904@minid.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c17fc4$59631db0$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Buenos noches, Diego. (Vivo en San Diego, en California :)

You make an interesting point about paying for web content. For years,
television and radio were free, but you could only have what a few
stations broadcast. Now, if that's okay you can settle for it, but if
you want 135 channels of whatever's out there, you can pay, and get more
(if not better) content. (Hey, I can get BBC American on satellite, but
it sure doesn?t come in well with the old rabbit ears.)

If folks in your area are looking for lots of different disciplines,
would it be possible to learn enough to fit their needs? Sometimes,
though, people are just unreasonable. Don't want to work for them unless
that's the only choice.

Sorry to hear how tough it is down south. Seems like it's slow lots of
places.

joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Diego Lafuente
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:11 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Jobs in the US


Here in Argentina things are hardest...

almost not much webdesign jobs are opening...

What i find really annoying when people here looks for a websidesigner 
they want a print designer... wich is totally another world...

also they ask u for a lot of disciplines, like if they?re looking for an

experienced programmer... they want it all... calm down dude...

I just want the web full paid... no more free services... maybe just 
news and some free content websites like mine... but all the features 
should be payable in every site, this could help to stop dotcom down 
economy pretty well... also with this companies could start to hire more

people and get better systems to pay for the web...

is not too late to make this real... and it will be better an 1 big 
website controlling the entire planet with better payable services like 
Yahoo or Terralycos...

i just want the best for all.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From webdesign1 at irubin.com  Sat Dec  8 10:59:07 2001
From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin)
Date: Sat Dec  8 10:59:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
Message-ID: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEAEDHAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>

Hello,

This question involves splitting up a paragraph, take for example the
following paragraph:

"Nine state attorneys general argued Friday that Microsoft must offer a
stripped-down version of its Windows operating system and make its leading
Office software compatible with competing operating systems"

I would like to split the paragraph into two parts (which ultimately will be
displayed in two pages). The trick, however is that I do not wish to split
in the middle of the word. I have a budget of, lets say 99 characters which
will split the word "its" right in the middle. I would like page to
essentially display up to character 99 minus first (or last) white space (I
think that makes sense).

The second page will display from character 99 (minus the white space) until
the end.

The end result in this case should look like this:

Page 1

"Nine state attorneys general argued Friday that Microsoft must offer a
stripped-down version of"

Page 2

"its Windows operating system and make its leading Office software
compatible with competing operating systems"


TIA

Roee Rubin
roee at irubin.com





From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 11:05:36 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Sat Dec  8 11:05:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <MABBJACNCFDNLLAFJNJBEEBGDCAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEINCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

Is their a way to look at the DHCP Record without contacting the ISP?

Thanks,
Josh

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From john at neoncowboy.com  Sat Dec  8 11:08:34 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Sat Dec  8 11:08:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
In-Reply-To: <20011208005738.88556.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAAEOKEGAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

I'm glad I didn't chase the boom to SF a few years ago like I wanted to!

I live in Hawaii...things are kind of backwards here. I used to have a job
with a (lame, stupid, unimaginative) development company,
http://www.maui.net, but they only paid me like $10/hour. So I quit and
began my freelance career...that's more like what work should be.

I'm working, but only when I get in touch with people and patiently explain
what I could do for their business by building them a website. I often have
to do work that I wouldnt' necessarily want to do, just so I can work.
http://www.mauiatvadventures.com, for example.

I've been ruined by the work-in-your-slippers lifestyle, I wonder at times
if I'll ever be able to handle having a real job again :)

jpc

|-----Original Message-----
|From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
|[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Asif Suria
|Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:58 PM
|To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
|Subject: RE: [thelist] Job Opps in the US? An informal survey.
|
|
|The place with the biggest boom has the greatest fall.
|I have tried looking for a job in the Bay Area and
|there are practically no jobs there. I liked someone's
|idea of looking for techie jobs in non-techie places.
|
|My apologies if this post is off topic.
|
|Asif
|
|--- Sarah Heffron <sarah at meatlike.com> wrote:
|> I could note that if in anyone in the
|> bay area has any
|> connections for webdev work, please send them my
|> way.
|>
|
|
|__________________________________________________
|Do You Yahoo!?
|Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
|http://greetings.yahoo.com
|
|---------------------------------------
|For unsubscribe and other options, including
|the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
|http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|




From hgquinn at attglobal.net  Sat Dec  8 11:20:44 2001
From: hgquinn at attglobal.net (Heather Quinn)
Date: Sat Dec  8 11:20:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent cause?
References: <3C115DD0.29781.346A4B4@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C124D44.6040505@attglobal.net>

It was a genuine bad referrer error from a genuine user.  I took another 
look at the error the user sent on to us, and the referrer is missing 
its leading www.  Now I'm hanging my head in embarrassment because, 
being the detail-oriented person I am, I always type in full URL's and 
I've completely ignored the people who type in "somesite.com", and get a 
return URL of "http://somesite.com" due to virtual hosting config files. :(

Thanks, Keith, for your incredible feedback.  This is the kind of 
knowledge that Evolters are all about (and being big enough to share it 
is what they're all about, too). I'll modify the script where 
appropriate to make it safer.  

Keith wrote:

>
>Hi Heather,
>
>It could be a number of things. First thing to do, find out what 
>referrer formmail is receiving. Place the following on line 34 (just 
>above the @referrer = line) and have your user try it (you might want 
>to create a copy with a different name while testing because this 
>will kill the script)
>
>print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
>print "referrer is $ENV{'HTTP_REFERER'}";
>exit;
>
>That way the script will fail and report back the referrer that it 
>received. Once you've done that the problem should be obvious, or 
>at least you'll have a starting point. I'd look for a Perl metacharacter 
>in the referrer, or no referrer at all (depending on your "slight
> modification").
>
>It's a weird coincidence that you posted a message about formmail. 
>Just the other day I was reviewing our server error logs and saw 
>that 14 times in the last month different domains on our servers 
>were getting "file not found: cgi-bin/formmail.pl" errors. We've never 
>allowed a cgi-bin on our servers or allowed formmail. Those errors 
>were coming from a robot scanning our cornor of the web, looking 
>for a spam relay. Matt Wright's FormMail.pl is the most widely used 
>spam relay on the web. And since you are relying on the referrer 
>array, your installation IS a spam relay.
>
>A lazy spammer can  trick FormMail into not even using the 
>@referrer array and substitute his victim's email address for the 
>recipient. But enterprising spammers (ones who come looking for 
>you with robots) will send a fake referrer, making FormMail think the 
>form is coming from a referrer in your @referrer array, again 
>substituting his victim's email address for the recipient. These tricks 
>are well documented, easily available, and widely used by 
>professional spammers to turn your FormMail into a spam relay 
>server. 
>
>In addition to being a spam relay FormMail is a portal for a "denial 
>of service attack". Since it's easy to automate using FormMail to 
>hijack your server's email program, it's easy to throw a million 
>emails through it, bogging your server down or crashing it.
>
>You may think that FormMail's vulnerability is not your problem. In a 
>sense you're right, it's Matt's problem, one he's failed to own up to. 
>But, have someone stuff a million spam emails through your relay 
>and get 10K angry emails back because your server admin contact 
>is in the expanded email headers and you'll realize it is your 
>problem too.
>
>The good news is: FormMail is easy to fix. 
>
>Remove lines 74, 75 & 76
>############
>    else {
>        $check_referer = 1;
>    }
>###########
>Those lines allow a submission with no referrer (Matt wasn't 
>thinking!) and allows a spammer to send 
>http://example.com/formmail.pl?message=GOTCHA&recipient=you
>@your.com
>from a location field (which does not produce a referrer).
>
>That takes care of the lazy spammer. A professional spammer who 
>fakes the referrer with an LWP agent is a little harder. FormMail is 
>designed to be used by multiple domains sending emails to known 
>recipients. If you are letting visitors enter a recipient of their choice 
>you have a spam relay by design. But, if your recipient is in a 
>hidden field (as it should be) then the script needs to check the 
>submitted recipient against an array of approved recipients. To do 
>this you need to get a list of approved recipient emails from all of 
>the people authorized to have a form pointing to your FormMail 
>script. You then add them to an array on the line below $mailprog = 
>'/usr/lib/sendmail'; like so
>
>@recipients = qw(me at my.com you at your.com);
>
>(note the space between each email address)
>
>Then on the line below &parse_form; place this line
>
>unless("@recipients" =~ 
>/$Config{'recipient'}/){&error('no_recipient')}
>
>That will cause the script to exit reporting that no recipient was 
>submitted (technically not true). You can be nice to the bandit by 
>changing line 576 from "No Recipient was specified" to "An 
>Unauthorized Recipient was specified" but that's up to your sense 
>of 'fair play'. 
>
>Please, Heather, make the above changes. This is a hot topic on 
>many server mail lists. Subscribe to cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com 
>or cobalt-security at list.cobalt.com and bring up FormMail.pl and 
>watch the days of bitter ranting. BTW, the above fixes were tested 
>by numerous long-time subscribers to those 2 lists and passes the 
>minimum recommendations for hardening the script.
>
>Feel free to contact me offlist if you have questions, need help or 
>want a fully hardened version of Matt's script.
>
>Sincerly
>
>keith
>

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill






From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Sat Dec  8 11:52:23 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Sat Dec  8 11:52:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEINCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>; from joshsquared@yahoo.com on Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 11:08:43AM -0600
References: <MABBJACNCFDNLLAFJNJBEEBGDCAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org> <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEINCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208095410.B265@simianbrotherhood.org>

Look at the record how? If you're talking about trying to get info from
the dhcp server logs, then no there isn't.

-d

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 11:08:43AM -0600, Josh Spiegel wrote:
> 
> Is their a way to look at the DHCP Record without contacting the ISP?
> 
> Thanks,
> Josh
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 12:02:15 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Sat Dec  8 12:02:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <20011208095410.B265@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEIOCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>



>>Look at the record how? 

>>If you're talking about trying to get info from
>>the dhcp server logs, then no there isn't.

Which ways am I allowed to look at it?

thxs,
Josh

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From malwinsc at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 12:03:30 2001
From: malwinsc at yahoo.com (Mal Wins)
Date: Sat Dec  8 12:03:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEAEDHAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <20011208180522.84889.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Roee Rubin <webdesign1 at irubin.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This question involves splitting up a paragraph,
> take for example the
> following paragraph:

This is pretty easy once you get the basic idea down.
Have to assume you already have your paragraph in a
variable. Say $para, split $para based on a space and
push that into an array. Then go through each word,
getting the word count by spliting on the null
char.($#char +1 will return the length of the array,
+1 since it starts at 0) Should add one to the count
for each word to account for spaces but for what you
outlined it isn't necessary. Tricky part here is that
you have to assign your limit ($break) and then check
before you operate on that word. If its over the
limit, it goes to the next step. 
So it looks like this....

@words = split(/ /, $para);
$break = "99";
foreach $word (@words) {
	@chars = split(//, $word);
	$wordcount = $#chars + 1;
	$textcnt = $wordcount + $cnt;
	if ($textcnt >= $break)
		{ &addwordPageOne($word);}
		else { &addwordPageTwo($word); }
			}


HTH

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From cache at dowebs.com  Sat Dec  8 12:10:56 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith)
Date: Sat Dec  8 12:10:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEAEDHAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>
Message-ID: <3C11F586.2075.4C9215@localhost>

> I would like to split the paragraph into two parts (which ultimately
> will be displayed in two pages). The trick, however is that I do not
> wish to split in the middle of the word. I have a budget of, lets say
> 99 characters which will split the word "its" right in the middle. I
> would like page to essentially display up to character 99 minus first
> (or last) white space (I think that makes sense).

I'm with you,  Roee, I'd like to see the following reduced to a regex 
too....

$phrase = qq~Nine state attorneys general argued Friday that 
Microsoft must offer a stripped-down version of its Windows 
operating system and make its leading Office software compatible 
with competing operating systems~;

@phrase = split(/ /,$phrase);
foreach (@phrase){
  $word=length($_);
  if($count + $word <99){
    $first .= $_." ";
    $count=length($first);
  }else{
    push(@second,$_);
  }
}
chop($first);
$second = join(" ", at second);

keith



From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Dec  8 12:28:12 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Dec  8 12:28:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPAKEAEDHAA.webdesign1@irubin.com> from "Roee Rubin" at Dec 08, 2001 09:01:29 AM
Message-ID: <200112081829.LAA01099@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Try something like:

while ($var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/g) {
   print "$1\n\n";
}

I haven't tested it extensively but it should get you closer.

Dean


Roee Rubin writes:

> I would like to split the paragraph into two parts (which ultimately will be
> displayed in two pages). The trick, however is that I do not wish to split
> in the middle of the word. I have a budget of, lets say 99 characters which
> will split the word "its" right in the middle. I would like page to
> essentially display up to character 99 minus first (or last) white space (I
> think that makes sense).



From diego at minid.net  Sat Dec  8 12:53:19 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Sat Dec  8 12:53:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] .httacesss problem
Message-ID: <3C1261CA.9020104@minid.net>

I made an .httacess file and uploaded to the root folder on my webserver 
following the instructions of the FAQ of my web hosting....


in the .httacess file i should set this 3 lines of texts:

ErrorDocument 401 http://www.minid.net/404.html
ErrorDocument 403 404.html
ErrorDocument 404 404.html


then i upload the 404.html to my root folder.

and when i try to do that i get this message:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not Found
The requested URL /jshjkdasjkdsa was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while 
trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.14 Server at www.minid.net Port 80
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Is there something wrong with my .httacess? maybe do i need to config my 
apache a little better?

cheers.


diego
minid.net




From web at master.gen.in.us  Sat Dec  8 13:06:52 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sat Dec  8 13:06:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] formmail "bad referrer" error, with no apparent cause?
In-Reply-To: <3C124D44.6040505@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3C121FA0.2056.2A35A34@localhost>

On 8 Dec 2001, at 12:26, Heather Quinn posted a message which said:

> It was a genuine bad referrer error from a genuine user.  I took another
> look at the error the user sent on to us, and the referrer is missing
> its leading www.  Now I'm hanging my head in embarrassment because,
> being the detail-oriented person I am, I always type in full URL's and
> I've completely ignored the people who type in "somesite.com", and get a
> return URL of "http://somesite.com" due to virtual hosting config files.
> :(

It's not that they are typing in partial URLs and you're typing in full 
ones. It's that www.somesite.com and somesite.com are different 
domains, and *can* have different IPs - and even if the IPs are the 
same, can point to different websites.  

Most hosting companies give you both URLs pointing to the same 
directory, but Tom Christiansen used to have different websites at 
perl.com and www.perl.com  (They are both the same O'Reilly 
website now although interestingly, they are running Apache rather 
than the server that O'Reilly publishes. Homesite? Something like 
that.)

deke

--------
We are the parents our people warned us about....




From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info  Sat Dec  8 13:13:15 2001
From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson)
Date: Sat Dec  8 13:13:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] .httacesss problem
References: <3C1261CA.9020104@minid.net>
Message-ID: <015601c1801d$695b90e0$0601a8c0@shaun>

the file should be named .htaccess (one t not two)  I believe.

Shaun

> I made an .httacess file and uploaded to the root folder on my webserver 
> following the instructions of the FAQ of my web hosting....
> 




From malwinsc at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 14:03:07 2001
From: malwinsc at yahoo.com (Mal Wins)
Date: Sat Dec  8 14:03:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <200112081829.LAA01099@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <20011208200500.92453.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dean Mah <dmah at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Try something like:
> 
> while ($var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/g) {
>    print "$1\n\n";
> }

Next time, I'll try to remember he wanted a regex.
doh.
Above was much closer to the mark

$var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/;
   print "$1\n\n";
print $';

Works far as I can tell, a new line before 99 catches
though.  Back to lurking :)
> Roee Rubin writes:
> 
> > I would like to split the paragraph into two parts
> (which ultimately will be
> > displayed in two pages).

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From joshua at alphashop.net  Sat Dec  8 14:16:56 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Dec  8 14:16:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed
References: <20011208200500.92453.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <060201c18026$ec6d6770$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

I'm looking for a replacement regular expression that performs the following
task:

Given a valid URL, I want to:

1) update a parameter in the query string to a new value
or
2) append the new value to the query string

Some examples:

URL: www.mydomain.com/?page=1
Values: "page" and "2"
Result URL: www.mydomain.com/?page=2

URL: www.mydomain.com/?foo=bar
Values: "page" and "2"
Result URL: www.mydomain.com/?foo=bar&page=2

etc.

Can this be done with one single RegEx?

TIA,
-joshua




From webdev at komputerart.com  Sat Dec  8 14:56:54 2001
From: webdev at komputerart.com (Kris Hedstrom)
Date: Sat Dec  8 14:56:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: problem displaying Flash content
References: <200112072204.fB7M4q0E014797@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <007c01c1802b$50fea7e0$1fb7e40c@attbi.com>

Set the height of the table to 100%, I tried your html with one of my own
flash files and it scaled correctly when I set the table size to
height="100%". It seems to me like the flash file only counts for 1 px
before it is actually loaded by the browser. Also, try the paramater scale
for the flash file.
<param name="SCALE" value="exactfit">
Now, this didn't make any difference for me if I used this parameter or not,
the flash file looked the same anyhow, but you can always try.

hope this helps

----- Original Message -----
From: aardvark <roselli at earthlink.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: problem displaying Flash content


> > From: "Kim Bonfils" <kim at bonfils.com>
> [...]
> > > page it works in:
> > > http://algonquinstudios.com/table_1.asp
> > >
> > > page it don't wanna work in:
> > > http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test.asp
> > >
> > > another version that won't scale:
> > > http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test2.asp
> >
> > Strange. Only thing I noticed is that in the last one the Flash movie
> > doesn't have a height=100% attribute. I haven't studied the HTML code
> > carefully, but the page looks like the height of the table cell that
> > contains the Flash file is somehow fixed. That might explain why the
> > Flash movie doesn't expand in the vertical plane.
>
> it does look like, but that's not it... i don't define any heights... but
> yes, it exhibits the behavior of a cell with a specified height (or
> width, as detailed in figure 9 at
> http://evolt.org/article/list/20/15177/)...
>
> still stumped...
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From web at master.gen.in.us  Sat Dec  8 15:01:12 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:01:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] .httacesss problem
In-Reply-To: <3C1261CA.9020104@minid.net>
Message-ID: <3C123A6F.3652.30C16E2@localhost>

On 8 Dec 2001, at 15:54, Diego Lafuente posted a message which said:

> I made an .httacess file and uploaded to the root folder on my webserver
> following the instructions of the FAQ of my web hosting....
> in the .httacess file i should set this 3 lines of texts:
 
> ErrorDocument 401 http://www.minid.net/404.html
> ErrorDocument 403 404.html
> ErrorDocument 404 404.html

If you just put a filename, not a complete URL, it will look for a 
404.html file in whatever directory the user specifies. Not good. If 
your user asks for www.minid.net/a/b/c/d/something.html, the server 
will look for /a/b/c/d/404.html and since the directory doesn't exist, 
the server isn't going to find the 404.html file.

You could specify /404.html, but actually you are better off with
   ErrorDocument 401 http://www.minid.net/404.html
   ErrorDocument 403 http://www.minid.net/404.html
   ErrorDocument 404 http://www.minid.net/404.html
because some browsers substitute their own error messages for 
yours unless there is a full URL and not just a file name.

> then i upload the 404.html to my root folder.

Things in your root directory cannot be accessed by the web 
server. You need to put the 404.html file in the same directory
as your index.html home page.

> Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was 
> encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument 
> to handle the request.

You must have used the right spelling for .htaccess or the server 
wouldn't see your ErrorDocument directive.

deke

--------
We are the parents our people warned us about....




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Sat Dec  8 15:19:54 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:19:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEIOCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>; from joshsquared@yahoo.com on Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 12:05:20PM -0600
References: <20011208095410.B265@simianbrotherhood.org> <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBOEIOCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208132142.P265@simianbrotherhood.org>

It'd be more helpful if you could be more specific with your question.

-d

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 12:05:20PM -0600, Josh Spiegel wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >>Look at the record how? 
> 
> >>If you're talking about trying to get info from
> >>the dhcp server logs, then no there isn't.
> 
> Which ways am I allowed to look at it?
> 
> thxs,
> Josh
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com  Sat Dec  8 15:35:25 2001
From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:35:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 07-DEC-01
In-Reply-To: <200112080555.fB85t28T030007@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011208133427.02e69250@mail.midtown.net>

At 09:55 PM 12/07/2001, you wrote:
>evolt.org headlines for 07-DEC-01
>
>evolt.org FAQ: How To Write A How-To (Author: spinhead)
>http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/9741/18250/index.html
>
>So, you've realized that your comrades in the evolt.org community
>could really use whatever excellent idea is rattling around in your
>head (or your code.) You say you'd love to write an article, but
>don't know where to start? Step right this way, folks . . .

Nicely done FAQ for evolt here.

Wondering how to write an article for evolt? Wondering how to write an 
article anywhere? This is a good one to check out.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Design, Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From diego at minid.net  Sat Dec  8 15:42:25 2001
From: diego at minid.net (Diego Lafuente)
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:42:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] .httacesss problem
References: <3C123A6F.3652.30C16E2@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C12895B.8020306@minid.net>

Thank you very much! the hosting company has a non-valid .httaccess 
examples so...

grr


anyways problems was solved... I LOVE U ALL PEOPLE :)

diego.
minid.net

deke wrote:

>On 8 Dec 2001, at 15:54, Diego Lafuente posted a message which said:
>
>>I made an .httacess file and uploaded to the root folder on my webserver
>>following the instructions of the FAQ of my web hosting....
>>in the .httacess file i should set this 3 lines of texts:
>>
> 
>
>>ErrorDocument 401 http://www.minid.net/404.html
>>ErrorDocument 403 404.html
>>ErrorDocument 404 404.html
>>
>
>If you just put a filename, not a complete URL, it will look for a 
>404.html file in whatever directory the user specifies. Not good. If 
>your user asks for www.minid.net/a/b/c/d/something.html, the server 
>will look for /a/b/c/d/404.html and since the directory doesn't exist, 
>the server isn't going to find the 404.html file.
>
>You could specify /404.html, but actually you are better off with
>   ErrorDocument 401 http://www.minid.net/404.html
>   ErrorDocument 403 http://www.minid.net/404.html
>   ErrorDocument 404 http://www.minid.net/404.html
>because some browsers substitute their own error messages for 
>yours unless there is a full URL and not just a file name.
>
>>then i upload the 404.html to my root folder.
>>
>
>Things in your root directory cannot be accessed by the web 
>server. You need to put the 404.html file in the same directory
>as your index.html home page.
>
>>Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was 
>>encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument 
>>to handle the request.
>>
>
>You must have used the right spelling for .htaccess or the server 
>wouldn't see your ErrorDocument directive.
>
>deke
>
>--------
>We are the parents our people warned us about....
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>





From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sat Dec  8 15:50:09 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:50:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed
In-Reply-To: <060201c18026$ec6d6770$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPEECNCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Joshua-

I know this may not seem relevant, but when I'm faced with a situation like
this I generally do this:

Write a <FORM> to the client and make whatever link would have done the
regex replacement submit the form instead (form could use post or get, but
get for querystring manipulation).  Something like:

<FORM METHOD="get" ACTION="whatever.foo" NAME="qsForm">
<INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="page" VALUE="2">
</FORM>

<A HREF="javascript:document.qsForm.submit();">Click here to see page 2</A>

This way you're sticking to client-side manipulation and you don't have to
worry about JS regexp compatibility.

-Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joshua Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:29 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed


I'm looking for a replacement regular expression that performs the following
task:

Given a valid URL, I want to:

1) update a parameter in the query string to a new value
or
2) append the new value to the query string

Some examples:

URL: www.mydomain.com/?page=1
Values: "page" and "2"
Result URL: www.mydomain.com/?page=2

URL: www.mydomain.com/?foo=bar
Values: "page" and "2"
Result URL: www.mydomain.com/?foo=bar&page=2

etc.

Can this be done with one single RegEx?

TIA,
-joshua


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com  Sat Dec  8 15:58:25 2001
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Sat Dec  8 15:58:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion error messages
Message-ID: <000901c18033$0f17f400$12241b3f@oemcomputer>

I'm in big trouble! Hope someone can help me quickly.

A Cold Fusion file named downloadSend.cfm was written by a CF programmer (no longer contactable) for one of my client's web sites months ago. I tried to make some revisions to it last night to include another downloadable file and text. The problem is, I don't know beans (maybe one) about CF. I have been able in the past to add fields and such successfully. But this time I added another parameter ... and am guessing at a lot of it.

The first error message had to do with the CFPARAM tag which seems to be fixed.

The second error message I got was:

Error Occurred While Processing Request

 Error Diagnostic Information

 An error occurred while evaluating the expression: 

 #fname#

 Error near line 25, column 14.


 Error resolving parameter FNAME

 ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: 

   1.You have misspelled the parameter name, or 
   2.You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.

 The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#fname#), occupying document position (25:13) to (25:19).

 Date/Time: 12/08/01 12:49:15
 Browser: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; I)
 Remote Address: 63.27.36.18

The problem is: this piece of the code (lines 65-83) is code written by the CF programmer!!!!!! not me. I just followed suit when I added lines 85-97 (and lines 13-20 ... the new parameter name ... and line 38).

The third error message I got was:

Error Diagnostic Information
Context validation error in tag CFELSE

The tag is not correctly positioned relative to other tags in the template: tag CFELSE must be nested immediately inside tag CFIF. Instead, it is nested immediately inside tag CFOUTPUT.

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFELSE), occupying document position (75:2) to (75:9).

The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
D:\InetPub\wwwroot\datablocks\DownloadSend.cfm      


Date/Time: 12/08/01 13:56:15
Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; MSNIA; Windows 98; T312461)
Remote Address: 63.27.36.18
HTTP Referer: http://www.datablocks.com/download.htm


This is the third error message I've gotten. Again, this is code written by the programmer, not me, and has never created a problem before. Each time I think I have a fix, another error message pops up.

Could someone help? I don't know what URL to give you to look at the code 'cause all you can see is the error message code now. When I began, you could still see the page code (most of it).

Sharon )<8

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com




From joshua at alphashop.net  Sat Dec  8 16:00:10 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Dec  8 16:00:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed
References: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPEECNCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <061801c18035$5863ebd0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Chris,

Thank you for the idea.  It is a good one, though I am looking for the RegEx
for intellectual reasons.  I already have a snippet of CF code that does the
same thing, though it is not very elegant.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Blessing" <webguy at mail.rit.edu>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed

<snip>

: Write a <FORM> to the client and make whatever link would have done the
: regex replacement submit the form instead (form could use post or get, but
: get for querystring manipulation).  Something like:

</snip>




From joshua at alphashop.net  Sat Dec  8 16:01:40 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Dec  8 16:01:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion error messages
References: <000901c18033$0f17f400$12241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <061e01c18035$8e617c20$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Sharon,

Please email me the source if you can and I'll help you offlist.

joshua at alphashop.net
-joshua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sharon F. Malone" <sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion error messages


: I'm in big trouble! Hope someone can help me quickly.




From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 17:03:57 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:03:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <20011208132142.P265@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBIEJECHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

>>It'd be more helpful if you could be more specific with your question.

OK, I have an IP address.  Is there any information I can gain about this IP
address by looking at the DHCP record without contacting the ISP.  If so,
how?


d-
In a previous post, you said "you can't look at the server logs" making it
seem like you could look at the DHCP record in some other way.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Sat Dec  8 17:10:43 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:10:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBIEJECHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>; from joshsquared@yahoo.com on Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 05:07:01PM -0600
References: <20011208132142.P265@simianbrotherhood.org> <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBIEJECHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208151231.V265@simianbrotherhood.org>

What kind of information is it you're wanting to see about your IP
address?

You can use dig and nslookup to get some info about a specific IP
address, but as I said before it's dependant on what you are trying to
do.

-d

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 05:07:01PM -0600, Josh Spiegel wrote:
> 
> >>It'd be more helpful if you could be more specific with your question.
> 
> OK, I have an IP address.  Is there any information I can gain about this IP
> address by looking at the DHCP record without contacting the ISP.  If so,
> how?
> 
> 
> d-
> In a previous post, you said "you can't look at the server logs" making it
> seem like you could look at the DHCP record in some other way.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 17:16:36 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:16:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <20011208151231.V265@simianbrotherhood.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

Im going to contact the stupid ISP.  


<tip>
Vague answers are not helpful.
</tip>

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org  Sat Dec  8 17:24:27 2001
From: caffiend at simianbrotherhood.org (Dave Preston)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:24:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>; from joshsquared@yahoo.com on Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 05:19:43PM -0600
References: <20011208151231.V265@simianbrotherhood.org> <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011208152616.X265@simianbrotherhood.org>

Neither are vague questions....

If you had said that in the first place it would have made this a much
shorter thread....

So you want to do a reverse lookup on an ip address.

(unix)
dig -x xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

not sure the syntax for nslookup but I believe just

(unix & windows from command prompt)
nslookup xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

would work, check your docs

-d

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 05:19:43PM -0600, Josh Spiegel wrote:
> Im going to contact the stupid ISP.  
> 
> 
> <tip>
> Vague answers are not helpful.
> </tip>
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sat Dec  8 17:25:09 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:25:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
References: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b83850395e14@[192.168.1.2]>

>Im going to contact the stupid ISP.

If you want to know stuff like: what range block the IP address 
belongs to, who owns, it, what country it is assigned to, etc etc. 
Then you want to do a traceroute on it. There's occasionally more 
descriptive info in there. But with an ISP's DHCP assigned IP address 
there's not likely to be much useful info. Geektools:

http://www.geektools.com/

has a whois routine (far right link on the nav bar) that digs through 
a large list of different servers (whois.abuse.net, whois.nic.ac, etc 
etc etc). Can save you a lot of time if you're not sure which whois 
server to query.

><tip>
>Vague answers are not helpful.
></tip>

True, but your question was a bit vague too, to be fair to Dave. What 
information do you want? If it's stuff like: how long before this IP 
address expires? or what is the name of the ISP's user who was using 
this IP address at X time on Y date? then you're almost certainly out 
of luck unless you can convince the ISP to give you the info.

Cheers
Andrew

-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sat Dec  8 17:26:13 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sat Dec  8 17:26:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHCP Record?
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b83850395e14@[192.168.1.2]>
References: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBGEJFCHAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
 <p05100300b83850395e14@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <p05100301b8385220d083@[192.168.1.2]>

>Then you want to do a traceroute on it.

Doh. I meant 'whois'. Sorry!


-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Dec  8 18:53:38 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Dec  8 18:53:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <20011208200500.92453.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> from "Mal Wins" at Dec 08, 2001 12:05:00 PM
Message-ID: <200112090055.RAA02401@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Mal Wins writes:

> Next time, I'll try to remember he wanted a regex.
> doh.
> Above was much closer to the mark
> 
> $var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/;
>    print "$1\n\n";
> print $';


This only works for the first couple of segments.  Using the loop
method it doesn't matter how long the text is, it will iterate through
the entire thing and break it into <= 99 character segments.


> Works far as I can tell, a new line before 99 catches though.  Back
> to lurking :)


You're right.  So instead try something like:

   while ($var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/gs) {
       print "$1\n\n";
   }

That will treat your string as a single line so the '.' will match
newlines as well.

Dean



From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sat Dec  8 20:15:08 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sat Dec  8 20:15:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed
In-Reply-To: <061801c18035$5863ebd0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPCECPCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

No problem.  Actually I'd be interested in seeing this regexp as well, maybe
you'll find it at a previously-mentioned regexlib.com.

-Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joshua Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 5:12 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed


Chris,

Thank you for the idea.  It is a good one, though I am looking for the RegEx
for intellectual reasons.  I already have a snippet of CF code that does the
same thing, though it is not very elegant.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Blessing" <webguy at mail.rit.edu>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Regular Expression Needed

<snip>

: Write a <FORM> to the client and make whatever link would have done the
: regex replacement submit the form instead (form could use post or get, but
: get for querystring manipulation).  Something like:

</snip>


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From malwinsc at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 21:01:25 2001
From: malwinsc at yahoo.com (Mal Wins)
Date: Sat Dec  8 21:01:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <200112090055.RAA02401@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <20011209030320.34869.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dean Mah <dmah at shaw.ca> wrote:
> This only works for the first couple of segments. 
> Using the loop
> method it doesn't matter how long the text is, it
> will iterate through
> the entire thing and break it into <= 99 character
> segments.
> 
I could be wrong but I got the impression it was for a
teaser line , about the only use I saw for it
immediately. 99 char pages, just don't see the point. 
But no mention of skipping HTML tags so maybe he wants
it in chunks. Either way thats a sweet regex.

> You're right.  So instead try something like:
> 
>    while ($var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/gs) {
>        print "$1\n\n";
>    }
> 
> That will treat your string as a single line so the
> '.' will match
> newlines as well.
> 
> Dean
That does do the trick. I tried it (mistakenly) with
the /m and overlooked the /s. Next time I'll look it
up.


__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From mhmd_24h at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  8 21:23:31 2001
From: mhmd_24h at hotmail.com (ss momd)
Date: Sat Dec  8 21:23:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
Message-ID: <F206ehUSlbx1jIfk4Ja000141e3@hotmail.com>



>From: Mal Wins <malwinsc at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Perl - regular expressions
>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:03:20 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>--- Dean Mah <dmah at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > This only works for the first couple of segments.
> > Using the loop
> > method it doesn't matter how long the text is, it
> > will iterate through
> > the entire thing and break it into <= 99 character
> > segments.
> >
>I could be wrong but I got the impression it was for a
>teaser line , about the only use I saw for it
>immediately. 99 char pages, just don't see the point.
>But no mention of skipping HTML tags so maybe he wants
>it in chunks. Either way thats a sweet regex.
>
> > You're right.  So instead try something like:
> >
> >    while ($var =~ /(.{1,99})[\s\n]/gs) {
> >        print "$1\n\n";
> >    }
> >
> > That will treat your string as a single line so the
> > '.' will match
> > newlines as well.
> >
> > Dean
>That does do the trick. I tried it (mistakenly) with
>the /m and overlooked the /s. Next time I'll look it
>up.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From djc at members.evolt.org  Sat Dec  8 22:38:05 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Dec  8 22:38:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
Message-ID: <3C12EC10.80403@members.evolt.org>

I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a 
bit wacky.

By 'wacky' I mean the evolt.org homepage, which is usually a nice green 
color is showing up brown, and a lot of other websites just look odd.

I've got a Viewsonic PS790 pro, which has served me well, but to be 
honest, I know shit about monitors and their settings :)

So, I'm wondering if there is a way to 'reset' the colors on it or 
something. I tried using the RGB settings, but every time I set it to 
something that I think looks good, I come back an hour later and it 
seems even more screwed up than before.. There's a lot of options with 
the monitor hardware, like color/brightness, size/position, geometry, 
tilt, viewmatch color, viewmeter/degauss, memory recall, video level, 
and moire reduction(whatever that means).. Hopefully this doesn't seem 
like to dumb a question, its just something I have zero knowledge in and 
was hoping someone could help me out :)

Thanks!

.djc.




From hblair at hotfootmail.com  Sat Dec  8 23:04:34 2001
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Sat Dec  8 23:04:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <3C12EC10.80403@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJMEOEMMAA.hblair@hotfootmail.com>

djc,

First, try the degauss option.  See how it looks after that.
Then, look around for magnetic sources near the monitor.  Are
there any transformers, telephones, fluorescent lights etc. 
near the monitor?  If so, move the monitor and see if there's
any change.

This probably won't solve your problem though.  You mentioned
that "I come back an hour later and it seems even more screwed 
up than before.."  This leads me to think that it's dying on 
you - slowly - but surely.

Oh, most monitors are 'tuned' as "neck-north" - optimal video
with the neck pointed north and no magnetic influence nearby.

HTH a little.

-Hugh

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody
> Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
> 
> 
> I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a 
> bit wacky.



From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Dec  8 23:09:30 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Sat Dec  8 23:09:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <3C12EC10.80403@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000e01c18070$14c4d160$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Um, the most likely solution will involve a trip to your local hardware
supplier. Sounds like the yoke (IIRC) is toast. If it changed, then was
stable, you can usually pull the case (YIKES!! 20,000 to 50,000 volts in
that puppy. Don't do this unless you REALLY know what you're doing.) and
twiddle with the color settings. If it's drifting, I think the yoke or
some other Very Important Part died. If you've got a pro nearby they
could check it out, but if you had a pro nearby, you probably wouldn't
be asking us.

Call whoever you bought it from or even Viewsonic - Viewsonic is pretty
good to deal with.

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:44 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings


I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a 
bit wacky.

By 'wacky' I mean the evolt.org homepage, which is usually a nice green 
color is showing up brown, and a lot of other websites just look odd.

I've got a Viewsonic PS790 pro, which has served me well, but to be 
honest, I know shit about monitors and their settings :)

So, I'm wondering if there is a way to 'reset' the colors on it or 
something. I tried using the RGB settings, but every time I set it to 
something that I think looks good, I come back an hour later and it 
seems even more screwed up than before.. There's a lot of options with 
the monitor hardware, like color/brightness, size/position, geometry, 
tilt, viewmatch color, viewmeter/degauss, memory recall, video level, 
and moire reduction(whatever that means).. Hopefully this doesn't seem 
like to dumb a question, its just something I have zero knowledge in and

was hoping someone could help me out :)

Thanks!

.djc.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Dec  8 23:20:38 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Dec  8 23:20:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
References: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJMEOEMMAA.hblair@hotfootmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C12F608.5030305@starkmedia.com>


Hugh Blair wrote:

> djc,
> 
> First, try the degauss option.  See how it looks after that.
> Then, look around for magnetic sources near the monitor.  Are
> there any transformers, telephones, fluorescent lights etc. 
> near the monitor?  If so, move the monitor and see if there's
> any change.


ya, i tried the degauss thing, it clicked a couple times. i dont have 
anything except a plethora of beer bottles near the monitor, so its not 
magnetic..

 
> This probably won't solve your problem though.  You mentioned
> that "I come back an hour later and it seems even more screwed 
> up than before.."  This leads me to think that it's dying on 
> you - slowly - but surely.


well, by that i meant i set the green or red a bit higher or lower and 
it looked good. then i would come back and realize it was way off.. i 
dont know if that makes sense, but the longer i look a the monitor, the 
more it looks ok. only when i come back to it after a while can i see 
that the colors are really off(probably due to my screwing with them :)

thanks for the help :)

.djc.




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sat Dec  8 23:28:10 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sat Dec  8 23:28:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <3C12EC10.80403@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPEEDACDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

djc-

It may be that your new establishment is prone to extra EMI.  By that I mean
that your monitor could be receiving a bit more interference from nearby
power lines, etc. than it's setup to handle.   Have you tried moving the
monitor elsewhere to see if you can duplicate the problem?  Just a thought.
I know these things are supposed to be well-shielded but my monitor (Philips
109b) has an issue with my apartment whereas it "wobbles" ever-so-slightly
when the heater (in the basement) is on.  Haven't moved it around yet like I
suggest you do, but I'm 99% sure that's the cause of my issues.  Give it a
shot before you spend hundreds. ;)

-Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:44 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings


I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a
bit wacky.

By 'wacky' I mean the evolt.org homepage, which is usually a nice green
color is showing up brown, and a lot of other websites just look odd.

I've got a Viewsonic PS790 pro, which has served me well, but to be
honest, I know shit about monitors and their settings :)

So, I'm wondering if there is a way to 'reset' the colors on it or
something. I tried using the RGB settings, but every time I set it to
something that I think looks good, I come back an hour later and it
seems even more screwed up than before.. There's a lot of options with
the monitor hardware, like color/brightness, size/position, geometry,
tilt, viewmatch color, viewmeter/degauss, memory recall, video level,
and moire reduction(whatever that means).. Hopefully this doesn't seem
like to dumb a question, its just something I have zero knowledge in and
was hoping someone could help me out :)

Thanks!

.djc.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 00:56:57 2001
From: navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Sun Dec  9 00:56:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] ..::: RMS Early Snaps :::..
Message-ID: <004b01c1807e$3840ccd0$1c00005a@debian>

Hi,

I am working on an article on RMS for LinuxCampus.net

I searched the net but could not find his old snaps, (as old as RMS @ MIT
LAB).

Can anyone guide me for that.

Regards,
Navin.


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  9 01:58:01 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sun Dec  9 01:58:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <3C12EC10.80403@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C12D359.8778.580C41A9@localhost>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at members.evolt.org>
>
> I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a
> bit wacky.

immediate thought off the top of my head -- environment... if you 
take a monitor from one place to the next, keeping *all* settings, 
the differences in lighting, wall color, etc. can make a *huge* 
difference... however, unless you're someone who needs color 
accuracy, this shouldn't be an issue... move it around, move it 
back, etc, see if you're just perceiving environmental differences...

> By 'wacky' I mean the evolt.org homepage, which is usually a nice
> green color is showing up brown, and a lot of other websites just look
> odd.

next step, look for magnetic interference -- unshielded speakers, 
heavy power lines, *lots* of hardware, etc... just like putting 
unshielded speakers next to your TV can kill the screen, you can 
do it to the monitor...

> I've got a Viewsonic PS790 pro, which has served me well, but to be
> honest, I know shit about monitors and their settings :)

decent monitor, nothing special, though...

> So, I'm wondering if there is a way to 'reset' the colors on it or
> something. I tried using the RGB settings, but every time I set it to
> something that I think looks good, I come back an hour later and it
> seems even more screwed up than before.. There's a lot of options with

you're compensating mentally (i think in the visual cortex, but i'm 
not sure)...

> the monitor hardware, like color/brightness, size/position, geometry,
> tilt, viewmatch color, viewmeter/degauss, memory recall, video level,
> and moire reduction(whatever that means).. Hopefully this doesn't seem
> like to dumb a question, its just something I have zero knowledge in
> and was hoping someone could help me out :)

well, you could start fiddling, or you could search online for monitor 
calibration techniques... this question comes up often on the Lyris 
Photoshop list (but they often send people to books, although i 
think i've seen the occasional URL slide through)...



From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Sun Dec  9 02:04:32 2001
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Sun Dec  9 02:04:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
Message-ID: <001601c18088$4f4da240$13dc000a@spaceball1>

This all executes within global.asa:

I've got 10 graphics in a folder, all named 01.gif - 10.gif.
I use the FSO to grab one at random and strip off the extension, leaving
just a number.
I assign the random number to a session variable.

I use this code to implement a random header graphic on my site. I'm
doing it this way since I don't want a random header for every page
load/refresh from every user. I just want every user to get a random one
for each session they start.

Problem is, every user is getting the same graphic every time.

Here's my global.asa:

-----------------------------------------------------------
Sub Session_OnStart

  Set objFSO = Server.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
  Set objFolder = objFSO.GetFolder(server.mappath("/images/headers/"))

  For Each objFile in objFolder.Files
    upperbound = objFile.name
  Next
  
  upperbound = split(upperbound,".")
  
  session("topGraphic") = Int(Rnd() * cInt(upperBound(0))) + 1
  
  set objFSO = nothing
  set objFolder = nothing

End Sub
-----------------------------------------------------------

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance...

~Ken K.




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sun Dec  9 02:14:29 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sun Dec  9 02:14:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] limiting search results by number (SQL Server 7)
In-Reply-To: <F597miR9Odutox7nyeK0000e230@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPCEDCCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Hi all-

What I want to do is display a certain number of results per page based on
the number of rows I retreive from a table.  I say 'search' because I'm
using SQL Server's full-text search capability and it is, in effect,
propelling a small search engine for my company's internal use.

Specifically I want to enable the "Viewing results 1-20 of XXXX" and
"21-40", etc. etc.  I know I can do this by retreiving the full recordset
everytime the user decides to "view more results", but I don't want to do
that.  I'd rather let the db decide which rows to return based on the query.
I remember seeing an article on this somewhere which used php/mysql but it
also used the LIMIT clause, which SQL server doesn't apparently support (as
far as I can tell).  Anyone have any tips or advice on how to go about doing
this?  If I choose the full-recordset method I will be returning hundreds
upon thousands of rows everytime but only showing 21-40 or 101-120 (and so
on).  I'd really rather not do that.

Thanks in advance!

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

<tip type="Moving data from mySQL to MS SQL 7">
note: this tip applies to Windows machines.

If you want to move data from a mySQL database to an MS SQL database, it's
simple with the MS SQL Data Transformation wizard and myODBC (available @
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-myodbc.html).

I figured this out after many trials with attempting to import a text file
dumped from a mySQL db which had a text field in it (very hard to delimit
text fields in a text file, if you know what I mean).

After you setup the myODBC driver on your system you'll need to configure
the default DSN.  Go to the ODBC Data Source Administrator and configure the
mySQL User DSN.  Put in the remote mySQL host, database and
username/password.  Now open the MS SQL Enterprise Manager, select your
database, right-click and select "Import Data...".  When you get to the
"Source" screen, select the mySQL DSN from the drop-down.  After you specify
the destination, the wizard should show you a list of available tables to
import.  From here you can transform the data to meet your needs as
necessary.  Then let the wizard do its work.  It'll get all the data you
request and preserve as many of the field data types as it can.  It even
transfers text fields!  Very handy tool for migrating lots of data in a
little bit of time.
</tip>




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Dec  9 07:31:44 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Dec  9 07:31:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] limiting search results by number (SQL Server 7)
Message-ID: <01c180b6$21028120$d051149a@rudy>

> I remember seeing an article on this somewhere which
> used php/mysql but it also used the LIMIT clause, which
> SQL server doesn't apparently support (as far as I can tell).

hi chris

sql/server uses TOP but i'm not sure it's as flexible as LIMIT, since with
LIMIT you can specify a starting row number and i believe TOP always starts
at 1 -- anybody with "bol" (books online) can quickly verify

still, this method is inefficient because it is basically a complete
re-query of the database, only you're not returning all the rows

> Anyone have any tips or advice on how to go about doing this?
> If I choose the full-recordset method I will be returning hundreds
> upon thousands of rows everytime but only showing 21-40 or
> 101-120 (and so on).  I'd really rather not do that.

good thinking, and you are right to be concerned

look into caching the query results

i assume you're using ASP, and i don't know how to do it there, but in cold
fusion there's the CACHEDWITHIN parameter on the CFQUERY tag

rudy





From seyon at delime.com  Sun Dec  9 08:10:43 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Sun Dec  9 08:10:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
In-Reply-To: <001601c18088$4f4da240$13dc000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011209101003.00a42a90@mail.delime.com>

Hi Ken,

At 12/9/2001 02:05 AM, you wrote:
>This all executes within global.asa:
>
>Here's my global.asa:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Sub Session_OnStart
>
>   Set objFSO = Server.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
>   Set objFolder = objFSO.GetFolder(server.mappath("/images/headers/"))
>
>   For Each objFile in objFolder.Files
>     upperbound = objFile.name
>   Next

Correct me if I'm wrong. This bit here doesn't seem to put the retrieved 
filenames into an array. It just overwrites the variable with the new file 
each time.

So....

>   upperbound = split(upperbound,".")

When you get to here, there's only one file on your upperbound variable.
Therefore no matter what you do afterwards, that's the file that will be 
displayed.

At least that's how it looks to me.

regards.
-marc



From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Dec  9 08:21:06 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Dec  9 08:21:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
References: <001601c18088$4f4da240$13dc000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <06a501c180be$63c28ac0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Hey Ken,

make sure you execute Randomize before executing Rnd()  There are about 100
different ways to actually code the system you are trying to implement (and
I'm sure others will make lots of suggestions), but the answer to your
question of "why does the same random number get generated EVERY time?" is
because the random seed is always the same.  Using Randomize fixes that.

HTH,
-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Kogler" <ken.kogler at curf.edu>
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...


: Problem is, every user is getting the same graphic every time.




From webdesign1 at irubin.com  Sun Dec  9 10:53:18 2001
From: webdesign1 at irubin.com (Roee Rubin)
Date: Sun Dec  9 10:53:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] limiting search results by number (SQL Server 7)
In-Reply-To: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPCEDCCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <LDEPIJINJHOPDCLEIDPACEAPDHAA.webdesign1@irubin.com>

If you are using Perl try the HTML::Pager module.

Roee
roee at irubin.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Blessing
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:15 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] limiting search results by number (SQL Server 7)


Hi all-

What I want to do is display a certain number of results per page based on
the number of rows I retreive from a table.  I say 'search' because I'm
using SQL Server's full-text search capability and it is, in effect,
propelling a small search engine for my company's internal use.

Specifically I want to enable the "Viewing results 1-20 of XXXX" and
"21-40", etc. etc.  I know I can do this by retreiving the full recordset
everytime the user decides to "view more results", but I don't want to do
that.  I'd rather let the db decide which rows to return based on the query.
I remember seeing an article on this somewhere which used php/mysql but it
also used the LIMIT clause, which SQL server doesn't apparently support (as
far as I can tell).  Anyone have any tips or advice on how to go about doing
this?  If I choose the full-recordset method I will be returning hundreds
upon thousands of rows everytime but only showing 21-40 or 101-120 (and so
on).  I'd really rather not do that.

Thanks in advance!

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

<tip type="Moving data from mySQL to MS SQL 7">
note: this tip applies to Windows machines.

If you want to move data from a mySQL database to an MS SQL database, it's
simple with the MS SQL Data Transformation wizard and myODBC (available @
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-myodbc.html).

I figured this out after many trials with attempting to import a text file
dumped from a mySQL db which had a text field in it (very hard to delimit
text fields in a text file, if you know what I mean).

After you setup the myODBC driver on your system you'll need to configure
the default DSN.  Go to the ODBC Data Source Administrator and configure the
mySQL User DSN.  Put in the remote mySQL host, database and
username/password.  Now open the MS SQL Enterprise Manager, select your
database, right-click and select "Import Data...".  When you get to the
"Source" screen, select the mySQL DSN from the drop-down.  After you specify
the destination, the wizard should show you a list of available tables to
import.  From here you can transform the data to meet your needs as
necessary.  Then let the wizard do its work.  It'll get all the data you
request and preserve as many of the field data types as it can.  It even
transfers text fields!  Very handy tool for migrating lots of data in a
little bit of time.
</tip>


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From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  9 10:56:19 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Sun Dec  9 10:56:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
References: <001601c18088$4f4da240$13dc000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <005301c180d2$775aa040$06c9fc9e@lonnie>

Hi Ken,

If indeed your files are sequentially numbered, all you need to do is create a
random number. You don't need to use FSO.

01.gif - 10.gif

randomize
upperbound=int(rnd*10)+1
upperbound=right("0" & upperbound,2) 'makes 1="01", while 10="10"
session("topGraphic") ="path/" & upperbound & ".gif"

HTH
lonk


> This all executes within global.asa:
>
> I've got 10 graphics in a folder, all named 01.gif - 10.gif.
> I use the FSO to grab one at random and strip off the extension, leaving
> just a number.
> I assign the random number to a session variable.
>
> I use this code to implement a random header graphic on my site. I'm
> doing it this way since I don't want a random header for every page
> load/refresh from every user. I just want every user to get a random one
> for each session they start.
>
> Problem is, every user is getting the same graphic every time.
>
> Here's my global.asa:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Sub Session_OnStart
>
>   Set objFSO = Server.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
>   Set objFolder = objFSO.GetFolder(server.mappath("/images/headers/"))
>
>   For Each objFile in objFolder.Files
>     upperbound = objFile.name
>   Next
>
>   upperbound = split(upperbound,".")
>
>   session("topGraphic") = Int(Rnd() * cInt(upperBound(0))) + 1
>
>   set objFSO = nothing
>   set objFolder = nothing
>
> End Sub
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> ~Ken K.





From hgquinn at attglobal.net  Sun Dec  9 11:33:48 2001
From: hgquinn at attglobal.net (Heather Quinn)
Date: Sun Dec  9 11:33:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] problem displaying Flash content
References: <200112071615.fB7GFD0E028813@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C13A1DB.2040800@attglobal.net>

Look fine to me with Mozilla 0.9.6.  But why not offer a resizeable 
pop-up so users can rescale and move around at will?

aardvark wrote:

>i built a chart in Flash because it's got some detail to it, and while i 
>want the site to handle for 640x480 users, i also don't want to 
>punish those at higher res with an itty-bitty chart...
>
>however, that durn thing won't display... at least not in the template 
>i've built... but the same code displays the Flash just fine in an 
>ultra-stripped HTML page...
>
>page it works in:
>http://algonquinstudios.com/table_1.asp
>
>page it don't wanna work in:
>http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test.asp
>
>another version that won't scale:
>http://algonquinstudios.com/flash_test2.asp
>

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill






From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Dec  9 11:41:45 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Dec  9 11:41:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
In-Reply-To: <06a501c180be$63c28ac0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <001601c18088$4f4da240$13dc000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209093842.02c2dfc8@baratta.com>

At 06:32 AM 12/9/2001, you wrote:

>make sure you execute Randomize before executing Rnd()

Don't forget that the Randomize can accept a seed. And that with a little 
jiggering you can help your "randomness" by replacing the default seed.

e.g.

         Randomize Right(ABS(DateDiff("s",Now,#1/1/1998#)),4)

What this does is select the last four digits from the number of seconds 
since the date entered and use that as the seed. You can use any date in 
the past.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Sun Dec  9 13:35:43 2001
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Sun Dec  9 13:35:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209093842.02c2dfc8@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <001701c180e8$d420c550$13dc000a@spaceball1>

Thanks! It was the seed thing... Whoops.

And to answer lon.kraemer - not all files have the same extension...
Some are gif, and some are jpg. Also, the number of files in that
directory (currently 10) will change frequently. That's why I've gotta
use the FSO. That's also why this thing is session-specific, cause
calling the FSO *every* time a page is loaded would bog down my already
straining server. Just so you know...

Thanks for the help, guys!

-Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Baratta
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:44 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...


At 06:32 AM 12/9/2001, you wrote:

>make sure you execute Randomize before executing Rnd()

Don't forget that the Randomize can accept a seed. And that with a
little 
jiggering you can help your "randomness" by replacing the default seed.

e.g.

         Randomize Right(ABS(DateDiff("s",Now,#1/1/1998#)),4)

What this does is select the last four digits from the number of seconds

since the date entered and use that as the seed. You can use any date in

the past.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


---------------------------------------
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Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Sun Dec  9 14:35:55 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Sun Dec  9 14:35:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
Message-ID: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>

I have an ASP page and on it, I want to give the user the opportunity to
"bookmark" a certain record in the database (ie. the one they're currently
on).  I have the function written, etc, but have no idea how to get it to
work from a link.

Basically, I want the link "Bookmark this job" to appear on the page, and
when clicked, it calls the function I've written (VBScript) and *does
nothing else*.  I'm guessing I'll have to put <a href="#"> in there
somewhere, but how do I call a VBScript function from a link?  OnClick
event?

Anyone?

Michael




From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Dec  9 14:39:55 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Dec  9 14:39:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
References: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <072c01c180f3$502f4d10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Adding the code to the onclick would work.

Maybe something like this:

<a href="#" onclick="return bookmarkThisPage();">blah</a>

Make sure the bookmarkThisPage function returns false.

HTH,

-joshua


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


<snip>

: Basically, I want the link "Bookmark this job" to appear on the page, and
: when clicked, it calls the function I've written (VBScript) and *does
: nothing else*.  I'm guessing I'll have to put <a href="#"> in there
: somewhere, but how do I call a VBScript function from a link?  OnClick
: event?
: 
: Anyone?
: 
: Michael




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sun Dec  9 14:40:14 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sun Dec  9 14:40:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
In-Reply-To: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPCEDECDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

I'm assuming since you're talking about db interaction, you've written a VBS
function in an asp page somewhere.  You can't use that function client-side.
That's the whole idea behind ASP/PHP/JSP, etc.  They're server-side
languages that are interpreted on the fly by the web server.

What you *could* do is link the person to another .asp page which contains
your function, pass it some data via a querystring or something, then use
that data in the function and redirect the user from there.  The point is
that you have to keep things separated between client-side (browser; i.e.
javascript form checking, etc.) and server-side (web server; i.e. db
queries, etc.).

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Galvin
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:39 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


I have an ASP page and on it, I want to give the user the opportunity to
"bookmark" a certain record in the database (ie. the one they're currently
on).  I have the function written, etc, but have no idea how to get it to
work from a link.

Basically, I want the link "Bookmark this job" to appear on the page, and
when clicked, it calls the function I've written (VBScript) and *does
nothing else*.  I'm guessing I'll have to put <a href="#"> in there
somewhere, but how do I call a VBScript function from a link?  OnClick
event?

Anyone?

Michael


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Sun Dec  9 14:50:13 2001
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Sun Dec  9 14:50:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
References: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin> <072c01c180f3$502f4d10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <001801c180f3$896b3f80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>

Joshua

That would only work if the function is a Javascript function, not a
VBScript function hidden in ASP.  No, it appears Chris hit the nail on the
head.

Crap.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


| Adding the code to the onclick would work.
|
| Maybe something like this:
|
| <a href="#" onclick="return bookmarkThisPage();">blah</a>
|
| Make sure the bookmarkThisPage function returns false.
|
| HTH,
|
| -joshua
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
| Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
|
|
| <snip>
|
| : Basically, I want the link "Bookmark this job" to appear on the page,
and
| : when clicked, it calls the function I've written (VBScript) and *does
| : nothing else*.  I'm guessing I'll have to put <a href="#"> in there
| : somewhere, but how do I call a VBScript function from a link?  OnClick
| : event?
| :
| : Anyone?
| :
| : Michael
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sun Dec  9 14:55:07 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sun Dec  9 14:55:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
In-Reply-To: <001801c180f3$896b3f80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPAEDFCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Michael-

I just thought of another method you could use.  Something I've done in the
past... you could open a new window (small popup that says "Bookmarking
job") and in that window, carry on with your asp code on the server-side.
This way you don't interrupt the user's browsing experience on your site,
and when the bookmarking was done you could close the window.  The
opening/closing of the window would be handled by a couple JS functions, no
big deal.

Lemme know if you wanna work this out a but further.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Galvin
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:53 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


Joshua

That would only work if the function is a Javascript function, not a
VBScript function hidden in ASP.  No, it appears Chris hit the nail on the
head.

Crap.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


| Adding the code to the onclick would work.
|
| Maybe something like this:
|
| <a href="#" onclick="return bookmarkThisPage();">blah</a>
|
| Make sure the bookmarkThisPage function returns false.
|
| HTH,
|
| -joshua
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
| Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
|
|
| <snip>
|
| : Basically, I want the link "Bookmark this job" to appear on the page,
and
| : when clicked, it calls the function I've written (VBScript) and *does
| : nothing else*.  I'm guessing I'll have to put <a href="#"> in there
| : somewhere, but how do I call a VBScript function from a link?  OnClick
| : event?
| :
| : Anyone?
| :
| : Michael
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sun Dec  9 15:03:01 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:03:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <3C12D359.8778.580C41A9@localhost>
References: <3C12D359.8778.580C41A9@localhost>
Message-ID: <p05100303b83980f7a795@[192.168.1.2]>

>  > I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a
>>  bit wacky.
>
>immediate thought off the top of my head -- environment...

Or a good hard whack on the trip from A to B; or a crapped out supply 
of power to the new premises. (I think, Chris, that'd be what the 
heater is doing to your monitor. Not freaky emissions, just a sudden 
drop in available power.)

Can you borrow another monitor to confirm that it's the screen itself?

Or, can you take the monitor elsewhere (home / work, wherever it 
isn't now) and try it out there?

Best of luck,
Andrew


-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Sun Dec  9 15:04:22 2001
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:04:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b83980f7a795@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPMEDFCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Andrew that's an interesting point... I'll have to take it to work and test
it out for sure now. ;)  Hopefully when my lease is up I can move out of
this over-priced craphole.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 4:04 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] monitor color settings


>  > I recently moved, and ever since the color on my monitor seems to be a
>>  bit wacky.
>
>immediate thought off the top of my head -- environment...

Or a good hard whack on the trip from A to B; or a crapped out supply
of power to the new premises. (I think, Chris, that'd be what the
heater is doing to your monitor. Not freaky emissions, just a sudden
drop in available power.)

Can you borrow another monitor to confirm that it's the screen itself?

Or, can you take the monitor elsewhere (home / work, wherever it
isn't now) and try it out there?

Best of luck,
Andrew


--
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sun Dec  9 15:14:19 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:14:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] monitor color settings
In-Reply-To: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPMEDFCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
References: <MLEFLGHFEGJDHOLDDHNPMEDFCDAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <p05100304b83983ff5dcc@[192.168.1.2]>

>Andrew that's an interesting point... I'll have to take it to work and test
>it out for sure now. ;)  Hopefully when my lease is up I can move out of
>this over-priced craphole.
>
>Chris Blessing

Hi Chris,

Or you could get a small UPS to even out the power signal. Can't 
brownouts cause permanent damage to equipment? I don't know enough 
about that sort of thing to say for sure.

But, at a guess, I'd say someone or something has given Dan's monitor 
a slap about. :)

Cheers
Andrew


-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/



From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Sun Dec  9 15:28:10 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:28:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
References: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <01c701c180f8$58f39e10$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
Ok, you want to call a function on the server, from the client, without
reloading the page, or using a frameset.
This is one way:

<script>
    var Sender=new Image()
    var custID='100 bookmark this'

    function updateDatabase(){

Sender.src='http://www.server.com/cgi-bin/script.asp?custID='+escape(custID)
        return false
    }
</script>

and then:
< a href="javascript:#" onclick="return updateDatabase()">Bookmark this
record</a>

That should do it.
Taken one step further, the server-script can redirect to an image, if the
update was performed successfully, or to an .html page if not.
Then your image will trigger an onload event for success, and an onerror
event for an error.
you would listen for that like this:

Sender.onerror=function(){alert("something went wrong")}
Sender.onload=function(){alert("All OK")}


Cheers,
Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>

> I have an ASP page and on it, I want to give the user the opportunity to
> "bookmark" a certain record in the database (ie. the one they're currently
> on).  I have the function written, etc, but have no idea how to get it to
> work from a link.





From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Dec  9 15:37:05 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:37:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link
References: <000d01c180f1$89ea6c80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin> <072c01c180f3$502f4d10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <001801c180f3$896b3f80$35ae7dc2@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <075e01c180fb$4cdec8e0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Michael,

Not to split hairs, but you can place client side VBScript in an ASP file
and call the client side VBScript function using the manner I described.

Internet Explorer, for example, supports client side VBScript...others
browsers might as well, though I do now know which.  Additionally, if you've
defined functions in VBScript, you can call them from JavaScript and visa
versa.

You are correct, however, VB functions defined for the server to execute
(within <% %> blocks) are not  available to the client under normal
conditions.

There are so many possible combinations of "client-side this" and
"server-side that" (which is why developing for the web can be so much fun
and utterly confusing to some people) that it can be very difficult to ask
questions that are 100% clear.  For example, I thought you'd already written
client-side VBScript that performed all the bookmarking magic and you were
asking what was the best way to trigger the code.

While getting my CompSci degree I looked down upon web programmers as being
silly.  In retrospect, what the h%*l was I thinking?

Good luck in your project.

-joshua


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Galvin" <mpgalvin at eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Calling a function in ASP from a link


: Joshua
:
: That would only work if the function is a Javascript function, not a
: VBScript function hidden in ASP.  No, it appears Chris hit the nail on the
: head.
:
: Crap.




From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  9 15:46:09 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Sun Dec  9 15:46:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] For the ASP Gurus...
References: <001701c180e8$d420c550$13dc000a@spaceball1>
Message-ID: <004e01c180fa$f68b7b00$58c385ce@lonnie>

Ken,

> And to answer lon.kraemer - not all files have the same extension...
> Some are gif, and some are jpg.

Hmmm... you did say:
> > I use the FSO to grab one at random and strip off the extension, leaving
just a number.

Why would you strip off the extension? How will you know the src extension when
you display the image?

> Also, the number of files in that
> directory (currently 10) will change frequently.

Ah, I see. I was mislead by:
> > I've got 10 graphics in a folder, all named 01.gif - 10.gif.

> That's why I've gotta
> use the FSO. That's also why this thing is session-specific, cause
> calling the FSO *every* time a page is loaded would bog down my already
> straining server. Just so you know...

I don't believe I questioned this!

Oh well, glad you got it figued out.

lonk







From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Sun Dec  9 19:42:20 2001
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (/cdj)
Date: Sun Dec  9 19:42:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL vs PostgreSQL - Opinions Please
In-Reply-To: <004b01c1807e$3840ccd0$1c00005a@debian>
Message-ID: <000001c1811c$691d7490$be82fea9@cr283847a>

Hello,

This question comes strictly from my own ignorance, and because it seems
to be a particularly slow Sunday evening on the list.

Anyway...

In your opinion, which is the superior - more stable, reliable, easier
to install, learn, manage, connect to, etc... - open source database
platform available? The subject line of this email limited the field to
MySQL vs. PostgreSQL, however, it there are others out there please list
them. Basically, what I am looking for is a non marketing type
comparison of the two database systems. Servers all over the word run
MySQL and love it and yet Red Hat in there Red Hat database package have
chosen PostgreSQL as their base. Which is better, or do their strengths
lead in two separate directions?

As I said, I am truly ignorant about the two databases and am really
looking for peoples comparisons and experiences with both. (I am not
trying to start a holy war here over DB's, really.) Just trying to learn
something.

So what do people think? Or should we all just stick with Oracle?!?

/chris




From burhankh at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  9 21:53:36 2001
From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sun Dec  9 21:53:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL vs PostgreSQL - Opinions Please
Message-ID: <F145AauNjVuMhvqgStM00002717@hotmail.com>

Can't comment on PostgreSQL, since I haven't worked on it. But, I can say a 
few things about mySQL.

First of all, its free (yay). Oracle -- I don't think so.

Since its open source, you are free to mess with it to your heart's content. 
Also, I like that it has a web based admin available (phpMyAdmin).


What I don't like is that there is no stored procedure option (atleast none 
that I can think of). Oracle really wins out on this one.

For now, that's it.
Now where is my drink!
Burhan Khalid




----Original Message Follows----
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Subject: [thelist] MySQL vs PostgreSQL - Opinions Please
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From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Sun Dec  9 22:16:54 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Sun Dec  9 22:16:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] MySQL vs PostgreSQL - Opinions Please
In-Reply-To: <F145AauNjVuMhvqgStM00002717@hotmail.com>
References: <F145AauNjVuMhvqgStM00002717@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05100303b839e3df5f6d@[192.168.1.2]>

>Can't comment on PostgreSQL, since I haven't worked on it. But, I 
>can say a few things about mySQL.

Ditto!

>First of all, its free (yay). Oracle -- I don't think so.

I don't use CF either, but price is not the reason why. Oracle's a 
big, wide, deep pool, and, TBH, the extensive list of features look 
lovely but entirely irrelevant to my daily work. MySQL has an 
entirely different target developer / admin audience.

>Since its open source, you are free to mess with it to your heart's 
>content. Also, I like that it has a web based admin available 
>(phpMyAdmin).

That piece of software rocks, and make sure you're using the latest 
version. They have a full time dev team working on it now and it rips 
my nighty! Mmmmm -- table optimization at a mouse click! 
Fragmentation / file size specs where you need them. Create BDB 
tables (if your build supports them). No more ENUM / SET traumas.

>What I don't like is that there is no stored procedure option 
>(atleast none that I can think of). Oracle really wins out on this 
>one.

http://www.mysql.com/doc/N/u/Nutshell_4.1_development_release.html

Looks like stored procedures, foreign key integrity, and nested 
queries are just around the corner. Dec / Jan even! And 4.0 may well 
be assigned beta this month too. Excellent!

Bottom line, AFAICS, is that mysql tends towards the feature-light 
side (relatively speaking) emphasizing speed, reliability, and 
load-predictability, while postgresql is more or less the inverse. 
Tim Perdue did a write up a while back on phpbuilder.com:

http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim20000705.php3?page=1

Best of luck
Andrew
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/