[thelist] RE: Konqueror web browser questions
Joe LaChapell
lacjoe at wsinc.com
Tue Jan 22 15:52:10 CST 2002
Jon,
I do use Konqueror.
How standards compliant is Konqueror? Very! It supports all of CSS1 and
most of CSS2, if the code is developed to the correct standards, you should
have no problem. Most people don't test in Konqueror and then complain when
it fails, but I have had no problem with Konqueror if the site(s) works in
Opera, NN6 and IE5.
As far as the Flash errors go, yes I have had problems with just a "regular"
configuration - nothing extreme :). The crashes are not as severe as on a
Windows box (ie requiring a reboot). What happens is you get a message that
states there was a problem, Konqueror handled it and brings you right back
to the page.
As for Javascript, I have had no problems. Everything works just fine.
Konqueror will become as popular as Linux (IMHO) because it is the
"preferred" browser for KDE. I wouldn't take previous advice and just
ignore it. Developing for Konqueror is no different than for any other
browser, just make sure to test DURING development. Most developer make the
mistake of developing in IE through the whole development cycle, then check
it in another browser like Opera and then say "damn Opera!". :)
-joe
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:18 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: thelist digest, Vol 2 #1930 - 33 msgs
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of thelist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Problem with mailto: on MAC (Anthony Baratta)
2. Re: Mailing list software (Warden, Matt)
3. RE: Problem with mailto: on MAC (Alliax)
4. A simple Javascript question (Alan Lloyd)
5. Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
6. Konqueror web browser questions (Jon)
7. Animated .gif's in NN 6.2 (Bob Boisvert)
8. Re: Update Query not running (Joshua Olson)
9. RE: Update Query not running (Tab Alleman)
10. Re: Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
11. Re: Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
12. One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (Brian King)
13. Re: One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (Joshua Olson)
14. Re: One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (spinhead)
15. RE: Update Query not running (Tab Alleman)
16. Re: Konqueror web browser questions (Matt)
17. Re: One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (Warden, Matt)
18. Re: One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (Miriam Frost)
19. RE: Update Query not running (.jeff)
20. RE: Animated .gif's in NN 6.2 (Chris Marsh)
21. Re: Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
22. RE: Update Query not running (Tab Alleman)
23. Re: Javascript question (Eric Vitiello)
24. Re: Which browsers to download for testing (MRC)
25. Re: Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
26. tip (Miriam Frost)
27. Re: Update Query not running (Scott Brady)
28. Re: One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air (spinhead)
29. Code Efficiency Analysis Tool (Bill Haenel)
30. Re: tip (Scott Brady)
31. RE: Code Efficiency Analysis Tool (Chris Blessing)
32. RE: Update Query not running (.jeff)
33. Re: Form CSS styles (Andrew Clover)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:33:36 -0800
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
From: Anthony Baratta <Anthony at Baratta.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Problem with mailto: on MAC
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
At 11:10 AM 1/22/2002, Alliax wrote:
>it uses a
>mailto:?subject=hello&body=http://www.rfaucilhon.com/photo.php?id=3
>link.
You need to URL encode http://www.rfaucilhon.com/photo.php?id=3 so that
the /,:,?,= are changed to %XX equivalents.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys
"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:35:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at mattwarden.com>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Mailing list software
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
On Jan 22, Olly Hodgson had something to say about [thelist] Mailing list...
>Hi,
>
>We're after some mailing list software that offers both normal mailing list
>features (like this list),
This list uses a mutated version of mailman (www.list.org).
>but also the ability to post from the web (like
>Topica, Yahoo Groups et al). Any ideas?
Easy as pie. Just create a form that generates an email to the list email
address (for instance, for this list, thelist at lists.evolt.org).
hth,
--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "Alliax" <damiencola at wanadoo.fr>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Problem with mailto: on MAC
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:39:34 +0100
charset="Windows-1252"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Thank you, I thought of that but then I thought that ? was a correct
character, and thus wouldn't have an equivalent..
I have changed it now the ? to %3f
I don't know if this will solve the problem on a mac, but on PC it works as
well as before.
nice URL encode chart:
http://i-technica.com/whitestuff/urlencodechart.html
Cordialement,
__ Alliax ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com
-----Message d'origine-----
You need to URL encode http://www.rfaucilhon.com/photo.php?id=3 so that
the /,:,?,= are changed to %XX equivalents.
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:47:27 GMT
From: "Alan Lloyd" <alan.lloyd0 at btinternet.com>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Organization: Holographic Web Solutions
Subject: [thelist] A simple Javascript question
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Hi I have a question I hope someone can help. I want to change some links on
part of a site and be able to control the window atributes.
I think java script is probably the best way.
But is it wise to use this method. Questions spring to mind:
Can Search Engines crawl them?
Will it work on all platforms and browsers.
If any one has any opinions or helpful hints I would be grateful.
Thanks
Alan
Holographic Web Solutions
www.holographic-web.co.uk
.
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:51:41 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [thelist] Update Query not running
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
I've got an Access table where the unique ID is a UID and I'm trying to run
an update query (using ColdFusion 5) on it, for example:
UPDATE
#Request.userTbl#
SET
email = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.email#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
first_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.first_name#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
last_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.last_name#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">
WHERE
user_id = <cfqueryparam value="#Request.user_id#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_LONGVARCHAR">
If I take the WHERE clause out, the update runs (of course, it runs on every
row, but it does run).
With the WHERE clause, the query doesn't update any rows (I'm not getting
any errors).
However, if I do a SELECT query on that table:
SELECT *
FROM #Request.userTbl#
WHERE
user_id = <cfqueryparam value="#Request.user_id#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_LONGVARCHAR">
(I'm using SELECT * just for this test query), it runs and returns the
proper record.
I thought maybe it was the cfsqltype in the query param, but if that were
the case, the SELECT query wouldn't run, right?
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:54:54 -0500
From: Jon <jon at kickinsites.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: [thelist] Konqueror web browser questions
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Hi All
I have a new client who wants his web site compatible for Konqueror for
Linux. I don't know much about Linux and had not heard of this browser
before he told me about it. I have looked on the Konqueror web site
(http://www.konqueror.org) and have seen some information that concerns me
regarding compatibility with Flash (he wants a Splash page) and Javascript.
The site has the following information regarding Flash:
"Why does Konqueror crash on every page with Flash ?
"This is a result of a clashing symbol in both the flash plugin and the
XFree86 libGLU (OpenGL utility lib). Upon closing an embedded flash view,
the wrong function is called which heavily corrupts memory and leads to
either immediately or delayed crashes, lockups and worse.
"The only solution that is currently known is either to install Qt without
OpenGL support or to not use the Flash plugin. You can't combine both until
this symbol clash is somehow solved. Unfortunately we cannot do much about
this issue, unless Macromedia is willing to help."
And the following information for Javascripts:
"Why does Konqueror 2.2 crash on every page with Javascript?
"There are two cases where this is known to happen:
"If you're using the SuSE i686 RPM's of KDE2.2 release you will experience
that almost every page with Javascript either does not work or crashes
Konqueror. This is a bug in the objprelinking that was used to build the
RPMs. Please use the non-experimentally marked RPMs instead, they will work.
"Please STOP REPORTING BUGS if you use these RPMs!
"If you see a message about an undefined symbol on the konsole output, you
hit the binutils bug. Exact reason for this is unknown, but upgrading to a
recent binutils (>= 2.10) and recompiling kjs helped in every case up to
now. If you installed from RPM you shouldn't be affected."
Since I know so little about Linux I don't don't understand the jargon being
used. Are the situations where these crashes would happen common to
Konqueror users? Or are these something akin to rare configurations? (Or am
I even asking the right questions?)
Also, how standards compliant is Konqueror? Are there any quirks I need to
worry about?
Lastly, does anybody on this list (who has actually stuck around to read
this entire post) use Konqueror?
As always, Thanks in advance for the help.
Jon
--__--__--
Message: 7
Reply-To: <webdad at tampabay.rr.com>
From: "Bob Boisvert" <webdad at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "Thelist \(E-mail\)" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:08:59 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [thelist] Animated .gif's in NN 6.2
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
I have an animated .gif that I made in Fireworks 4 (PC), nothing special,
just some scrolling text. It looks great in MSIE 5.5 at a speed of 3/100
and about 300 frames 700px long. The same .gif file in NN 6.2 is scrolling
the animation much faster, so much so that if I didn't know what it said, I
might have to look a couple of times to see what it's saying.
Does anybody know why the difference and how I might be able to fix it?.
Bob
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 1/2/02
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:09:36 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Scott,
is this the only update to this table that is not working? Have you tried
replacing the <cfqueryparam> with a simple Val()?
-joshua
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
Subject: [thelist] Update Query not running
: I've got an Access table where the unique ID is a UID and I'm trying to
run
: an update query (using ColdFusion 5) on it, for example:
<snip>
: If I take the WHERE clause out, the update runs (of course, it runs on
every
: row, but it does run).
:
: With the WHERE clause, the query doesn't update any rows (I'm not getting
: any errors).
--__--__--
Message: 9
Subject: RE: [thelist] Update Query not running
charset="iso-8859-1"
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:01:15 -0500
From: "Tab Alleman" <talleman at RealMetros.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
have you tried printing out your sql statement with the values plugged
in before it tries to run? sometimes you'll see typos and other
hose-ups that way..
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Brady [mailto:evolt at scottbrady.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:52 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Update Query not running
I've got an Access table where the unique ID is a UID and I'm trying to
run
an update query (using ColdFusion 5) on it, for example:
UPDATE
#Request.userTbl#
SET
email = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.email#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
first_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.first_name#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
last_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.last_name#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">
WHERE
user_id = <cfqueryparam value="#Request.user_id#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_LONGVARCHAR">
If I take the WHERE clause out, the update runs (of course, it runs on
every
row, but it does run).
With the WHERE clause, the query doesn't update any rows (I'm not
getting
any errors).
However, if I do a SELECT query on that table:
SELECT *
FROM #Request.userTbl#
WHERE
user_id = <cfqueryparam value="#Request.user_id#"
cfsqltype="CF_SQL_LONGVARCHAR">
(I'm using SELECT * just for this test query), it runs and returns the
proper record.
I thought maybe it was the cfsqltype in the query param, but if that
were
the case, the SELECT query wouldn't run, right?
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
--__--__--
Message: 10
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:05:17 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Joshua wrote:
> is this the only update to this table that is not working? Have you tried
> replacing the <cfqueryparam> with a simple Val()?
>
> -joshua
So far, it's the only update query using the user_id in the WHERE clause, so
I'm not sure.
Changing the cfqueryparam to just be "WHERE u.user_id = '#Request.user_id#'
" doesn't change anything.
(Glad so far that no one has pointed out a really obvious mistake . . . .)
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 11
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:07:40 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Tab wrote:
> have you tried printing out your sql statement with the values plugged
> in before it tries to run? sometimes you'll see typos and other
> hose-ups that way..
Well, I'm not getting any errors (if I change the query to force an error, I
do get an error message), so I don't think there are any typos. And, if I
take the WHERE clause out, it works just fine (which means the meat of the
query works). It's just the WHERE clause isn't finding the row [yet doing a
SELECT statement with that exact same WHERE clause does return the row]
I'm also outputting the value of #Request.user_id# and comparing it manually
with what's in the database and it's correct.
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 12
Reply-To: <BKing at Impact-Technologies.com>
From: "Brian King" <BKing at Impact-Technologies.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:05:43 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
In response to some of Martin Burns submissions to the list recently in
regards to why web companies succeed or fail. I obviously feel that Mr.
Burns doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about and wish to
predicate my remarks based on that observation. I find it very distasteful
when someone spouts off about things they don't understand and vehemently
try to make their case with information that simply isn't true.
I an attempt to not digress too far and not lower myself to the bashing
standard of the moron, (oops sorry), that does the bashing, I will make one
point and drop it.
M. Burns stated, a number of times mind you, that Amazon had a good business
model, and had the profits to substantiate it. I argued at the time, that
Amazon had never posted a profit and wasn't forecasting to do so in a while.
that they M. Burns stated had earned a profit, in his best factual tone that
he could muster and continued to build his case using that (bogus)
information. (I am not arguing whether Amazon has a good business model or
not, just that you can't argue a case using bad information). I simply
point to the following news articles posted on a number of sites regarding
Amazon's very first posted profit. Read it for yourself.
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=QR41IQN5Z3RV0CRBAEOCFEY
KEEARKIWD?type=businessnews&StoryID=534557
http://news.com.com/2100-1017-819688.html?tag=cd_mh
<tip>
Listening to those who shout the loudest, will not always reward you with
the most advantageous answers.
</tip>
Concerned Net Citizen
P.S. I imagine I will get kicked for saying that the emperor has no
clothes, so 'Cheers' everyone. :)
--__--__--
Message: 13
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:34:42 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Brian,
: P.S. I imagine I will get kicked for saying that the emperor has no
: clothes, so 'Cheers' everyone. :)
Not too likely. You brought some facts to the table, and most educated
people can accept that. Facts tend to reinforce or destroy an argument. I
did not follow the conversation nor have I looked at your information, but
your headline caught my attention. Despite the fact that you violated the
strict policy of intellectual friendliness with same off-the-cuff name
calling, your desire to present facts may offset many penalties.
<tip type="Mac IE" author="Joshua Olson">
Mac IE (some versions at least) append a CR and LF to file and select fields
during submission. Watch out for those extra characters carefully as they
can and will cause havoc in your code.
</tip>
-joshua
--__--__--
Message: 14
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:21:42 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> <tip>
> Listening to those who shout the loudest, will not always reward you with
> the most advantageous answers.
> </tip>
>
> Concerned Net Citizen
>
> P.S. I imagine I will get kicked for saying that the emperor has no
> clothes, so 'Cheers' everyone. :)
>
Actually, what you'll get is a response that
1) your subject line is insulting, not constructive
2) the tone of your message is unnecessarily argumentative
3) Martin has proven repeatedly that he knows what he's talking about (I
hope you read his resume before you posted) and in a war of opinions, I'll
take his well-thought-out and politely worded one over anyone else's angry
spouting every single time.
Disagreement is fine; it's how we learn. Rudeness is not fine, it's
counterproductive.
joel (spinhead)
--__--__--
Message: 15
Subject: RE: [thelist] Update Query not running
charset="iso-8859-1"
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:28:54 -0500
From: "Tab Alleman" <talleman at RealMetros.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
well another reason printing your sql string with the values plugged in
can be useful is that you can then copy the string from the browser and
paste it into your database's debugger and sometimes that will give you
some more clues about what's going on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Brady [mailto:evolt at scottbrady.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:08 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Tab wrote:
> have you tried printing out your sql statement with the values plugged
> in before it tries to run? sometimes you'll see typos and other
> hose-ups that way..
Well, I'm not getting any errors (if I change the query to force an
error, I
do get an error message), so I don't think there are any typos. And, if
I
take the WHERE clause out, it works just fine (which means the meat of
the
query works). It's just the WHERE clause isn't finding the row [yet
doing a
SELECT statement with that exact same WHERE clause does return the row]
I'm also outputting the value of #Request.user_id# and comparing it
manually
with what's in the database and it's correct.
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
--__--__--
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:29:44 -0500
From: Matt <mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Konqueror web browser questions
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Reply-to: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com
Organization: Lightbulb Press
charset=us-ascii
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
What sort of a site is this? Is there a high likelyhood that many of the
users
will even be using Konqueror? If the target demographic is not the IT crowd,
you might want to gently persuade him that worrying about Konqueror should
not
be a priority, especially if he wants things like flash intros.
Jon wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I have a new client who wants his web site compatible for Konqueror for
> Linux. I don't know much about Linux and had not heard of this browser
> before he told me about it. I have looked on the Konqueror web site
> (http://www.konqueror.org) and have seen some information that concerns me
> regarding compatibility with Flash (he wants a Splash page) and
Javascript.
>
> The site has the following information regarding Flash:
>
> "Why does Konqueror crash on every page with Flash ?
>
> "This is a result of a clashing symbol in both the flash plugin and the
> XFree86 libGLU (OpenGL utility lib). Upon closing an embedded flash view,
> the wrong function is called which heavily corrupts memory and leads to
> either immediately or delayed crashes, lockups and worse.
>
> "The only solution that is currently known is either to install Qt without
> OpenGL support or to not use the Flash plugin. You can't combine both
until
> this symbol clash is somehow solved. Unfortunately we cannot do much about
> this issue, unless Macromedia is willing to help."
>
> And the following information for Javascripts:
>
> "Why does Konqueror 2.2 crash on every page with Javascript?
>
> "There are two cases where this is known to happen:
>
> "If you're using the SuSE i686 RPM's of KDE2.2 release you will experience
> that almost every page with Javascript either does not work or crashes
> Konqueror. This is a bug in the objprelinking that was used to build the
> RPMs. Please use the non-experimentally marked RPMs instead, they will
work.
>
> "Please STOP REPORTING BUGS if you use these RPMs!
>
> "If you see a message about an undefined symbol on the konsole output, you
> hit the binutils bug. Exact reason for this is unknown, but upgrading to a
> recent binutils (>= 2.10) and recompiling kjs helped in every case up to
> now. If you installed from RPM you shouldn't be affected."
>
> Since I know so little about Linux I don't don't understand the jargon
being
> used. Are the situations where these crashes would happen common to
> Konqueror users? Or are these something akin to rare configurations? (Or
am
> I even asking the right questions?)
>
> Also, how standards compliant is Konqueror? Are there any quirks I need to
> worry about?
>
> Lastly, does anybody on this list (who has actually stuck around to read
> this entire post) use Konqueror?
>
> As always, Thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
--
Please note the new Lightbulb Press phone numbers starting January 3:
Main: 212-485-8800
Direct: 212-485-8826
--__--__--
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:29:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at mattwarden.com>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
On Jan 22, spinhead had something to say about Re: [thelist] One
blowhard,...
>> <tip>
>> Listening to those who shout the loudest, will not always reward you with
>> the most advantageous answers.
>> </tip>
>>
>> Concerned Net Citizen
>>
>> P.S. I imagine I will get kicked for saying that the emperor has no
>> clothes, so 'Cheers' everyone. :)
>>
>
>Actually, what you'll get is a response that
>1) your subject line is insulting, not constructive
Sure.
>2) the tone of your message is unnecessarily argumentative
really? i rather thought (other than the word "moron") that it was worded
quite well.
>3) Martin has proven repeatedly that he knows what he's talking about (I
>hope you read his resume before you posted)
What does THAT have to do about ANYTHING when you're talking hard facts.
>and in a war of opinions, I'll
>take his well-thought-out and politely worded one over anyone else's angry
>spouting every single time.
Personally, I'll take the hard facts over resume-waving.
>Disagreement is fine; it's how we learn. Rudeness is not fine, it's
>counterproductive.
Yeah. I think all parties involved in this conversation could make use of
the above comment.
THanks,
--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com
--__--__--
Message: 18
From: "Miriam Frost" <miriam at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:29:37 -0600
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> P.S. I imagine I will get kicked for saying that the emperor has no
> clothes, so 'Cheers' everyone. :)
Well, it was a bit hot under that collar for certain and for sure...
But evolt.org has no emperor other than it's community members.
Although rumor has it that MB is "Grand Poobah."
<tip type="spelling">
"I" before "E" except after "C," else when sounds like an "A," as in
"neighbor" or "weigh."
</tip>
<tip type="tips">
If you think of a tip, write it down and keep it handy, so that when you owe
a tip, you're not stuck and end up sending in a less-than-stellar tip.
</tip>
byeeeeeee
Miriam
http://www.dynagirl.com
making the fun go to 11 since 1971
--__--__--
Message: 19
From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:33:27 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
scott,
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Scott Brady
>
> I've got an Access table where the unique ID is a UID
> and I'm trying to run an update query (using ColdFusion
> 5) on it, for example:
>
> UPDATE
> #Request.userTbl#
> SET
> email = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.email#"
> cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
> first_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.first_name#"
> cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">,
> last_name = <cfqueryparam value="#attributes.last_name#"
> cfsqltype="CF_SQL_VARCHAR">
> WHERE
> user_id = <cfqueryparam value="#Request.user_id#"
> cfsqltype="CF_SQL_LONGVARCHAR">
>
> If I take the WHERE clause out, the update runs (of
> course, it runs on every row, but it does run).
>
> With the WHERE clause, the query doesn't update any rows
> (I'm not getting any errors).
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
have you verified that request.usertbl is pointing to the correct table?
do you have debugging turned on and can see the full sql string being sent
to the database? if so, does it look right?
what's the datatype of the user_id column? is it varchar or numeric? if
it's numeric, try a cfsqltype of "cf_sql_numeric" instead.
good luck,
.jeff
http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
--__--__--
Message: 20
From: "Chris Marsh" <chrism at puffofsmoke.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Animated .gif's in NN 6.2
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:35:38 -0000
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Bob
> I have an animated .gif that I made in Fireworks 4 (PC), nothing special,
> just some scrolling text. It looks great in MSIE 5.5 at a speed of 3/100
Well, I would say you have your answer right there. If you specify a frame
duration of 0.03 seconds, the browser will make a best effort to display it
for no longer than this. I have a hazy memory of coming across this problem
before, and the answer being in the less efficient manner in which IE
redraws the page.
> and about 300 frames 700px long. The same .gif file in NN 6.2 is
A 300 frame animated GIF? WOW!!! What size did you get that down to, out of
interest?
> scrolling
> the animation much faster, so much so that if I didn't know what
> it said, I
> might have to look a couple of times to see what it's saying.
>
> Does anybody know why the difference and how I might be able to fix it?.
HTH
Regards
Chris Marsh
--__--__--
Message: 21
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:34:23 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Tab wrote:
> well another reason printing your sql string with the values plugged in
> can be useful is that you can then copy the string from the browser and
> paste it into your database's debugger and sometimes that will give you
> some more clues about what's going on.
Plugging in the generated values into an Access query basically got me "You
are about to update 0 records. Continue?"
The select query still works in Access, so I'm really not sure what's going
on there.
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 22
Subject: RE: [thelist] Update Query not running
charset="iso-8859-1"
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:39:26 -0500
From: "Tab Alleman" <talleman at RealMetros.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
(and if it *isn't* numeric, you'll need the single quotes around the
value in your where clause)
... WHERE IFeel = 'Really dumb'
what's the datatype of the user_id column? is it varchar or numeric?
if
it's numeric, try a cfsqltype of "cf_sql_numeric" instead.
--__--__--
Message: 23
From: Eric Vitiello <evolt at perceive.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:12:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [thelist] Javascript question
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
-- josh [Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:07:18 GMT]:
><head>
><script language=Javascript>
>
>function validate()
>
> if (document.all.board_decision_comments.value == '' &&
>document.all.board_decision.value == 'Denied' ) {
> alert ("Please enter reason for denial.")
> return false
> }
>}
></script>
try:
function validate()
if (document.all.board_decision_comments.value == '' &&
document.all.board_decision.selectedIndex == 2 ) {
alert ("Please enter reason for denial.")
return false
}
}
- the select element does not have a "value" you must check to see what
the selectedIndex is. this holds a value for the item in the options array
that is selected. the select Element has an options array which holds each
option child element.
---
Eric Vitiello
Perceive Designs
<www.perceive.net>
--__--__--
Message: 24
From: "MRC" <webmaster at equilon-mrc.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Which browsers to download for testing
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 07:52:54 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Moe,
> Check out Browser Photo from netmechanic.com. For $15 a shot or $135
> a year, you give it a URL and it sends you screen shots of 16
> different browser / op sys / screen size combinations.
Not to say that a service like this isn't of some value, it has one
major failing: you can't see how the site works interactively. Are there any
scripting errors? What happens if I change the font size in the browser?
What happens when I resize the browser window? And so forth.
James Aylard
--__--__--
Message: 25
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:42:22 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Jeff wrote:
> have you verified that request.usertbl is pointing to the correct table?
Yeah, and I've been doing plenty of selects and an insert on this table
already and they work fine (of course, I don't know that any of them used
the user_id in the WHERE clause).
> do you have debugging turned on and can see the full sql string being sent
> to the database? if so, does it look right?
I turn debugging on when I'm encountering a problem (because I'm using div's
for the layout, the debugging info [and error messages] show up behind the
content, so it's hard to read), but the query output looks right.
> what's the datatype of the user_id column? is it varchar or numeric? if
> it's numeric, try a cfsqltype of "cf_sql_numeric" instead.
It's an Auto-Number with a "field size" of "Replication ID" [which is a
GUID]. In the SELECT statements, calling it a cfsqltype of
"cf_sql_longvarchar" seems to work, so you'd think it should work with the
update statement.
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 26
From: "Miriam Frost" <miriam at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:43:19 -0600
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [thelist] tip
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
<tip type="spelling, grammar">
"It's" is a contraction for "it is."
"Its" is the plural of "it."
</tip>.
> than it's community members.
I knew that.
Terrible when one becomes guilty of one's own pet peeve.
--__--__--
Message: 27
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:44:01 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Tab wrote:
> (and if it *isn't* numeric, you'll need the single quotes around the
> value in your where clause)
That's one reason I use <cfqueryparam >, it takes care of the single quotes
for you [which is really helpful for date fields . . . seems like in some
databases, you need quotes, and in others you don't].
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 28
From: "spinhead" <evolt at spinhead.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] One blowhard, hundreds of cubic feet of hot air
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:41:41 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >2) the tone of your message is unnecessarily argumentative
>
> really? i rather thought (other than the word "moron") that it was worded
> quite well.
>
Subjective on my part (ymmv) - for me, it only requires one bit of rudeness
to qualify as 'unnecessary' and the general tone struck me that way (the
poster himself was concerned enough to add the disclaimer at the end)
> >3) Martin has proven repeatedly that he knows what he's talking about (I
> >hope you read his resume before you posted)
>
> What does THAT have to do about ANYTHING when you're talking hard facts.
>
> >and in a war of opinions, I'll
> >take his well-thought-out and politely worded one over anyone else's
angry
> >spouting every single time.
>
> Personally, I'll take the hard facts over resume-waving.
I used the word 'opinion' intentionally. Since the poster didn't include one
word of Martin's post, it's difficult to see both sides of the argument. If
his point was, "Amazon has not made a profit" that's all that should be
posted. If the point was, "Martin doesn't have his facts straight" then
Martin's statements should be quoted from the original message with
appropriate documentation. The lack of any apparent attempt to make the post
a professional, properly handled debate makes it seem much more like a
personal attack than a useful conversation.
>
> >Disagreement is fine; it's how we learn. Rudeness is not fine, it's
> >counterproductive.
>
> Yeah. I think all parties involved in this conversation could make use of
> the above comment.
Yup!
>
> THanks,
>
You're so welcome!
joel
> --
> mattwarden
> mattwarden.com
>
>
--__--__--
Message: 29
From: "Bill Haenel" <bill at webmarketingworx.com>
To: "thelist" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:49:07 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [thelist] Code Efficiency Analysis Tool
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
By the time you write pages and pages of crap, sometimes it's a little
difficult and time-consuming to go through the whole thing and figure out
where you might improve on your coding efficiency. Especially when you're a
little dim.
I work mostly w/PHP, and I'd love a tool that would tell me if I suck.
Actually if it could simultaneously make a flowchart, AND tell me I suck I'd
be really, REALLY happy.
Anyone know of such a thing?
BH
--__--__--
Message: 30
From: "Scott Brady" <evolt at scottbrady.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: Re: [thelist] tip
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:51:36 -0700
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> <tip type="spelling, grammar">
> "It's" is a contraction for "it is."
> "Its" is the plural of "it."
> </tip>.
<tip type="spelling, grammar">
Actually, "Its" is the possessive of "it"
("They" would probably be the plural of "It")
</tip>
(And whether "anal retentive" has a hyphen or not depends on how
anal-retentive I'm being :) )
Scott
----------------------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/
--__--__--
Message: 31
From: "Chris Blessing" <webguy at mail.rit.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Code Efficiency Analysis Tool
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:56:21 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
I could use an ASP tool for this as well... I just so happen to be going
through appx. 5-6k lines of code at this very moment. =)
Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bill Haenel
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:49 PM
> To: thelist
> Subject: [thelist] Code Efficiency Analysis Tool
>
>
> By the time you write pages and pages of crap, sometimes it's a little
> difficult and time-consuming to go through the whole thing and figure out
> where you might improve on your coding efficiency. Especially
> when you're a
> little dim.
>
--__--__--
Message: 32
From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: RE: [thelist] Update Query not running
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:07:43 -0800
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
scott,
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Scott Brady
>
> > do you have debugging turned on and can see the full
> > sql string being sent to the database? if so, does
> > it look right?
>
> I turn debugging on when I'm encountering a problem
> (because I'm using div's for the layout, the debugging
> info [and error messages] show up behind the content,
> so it's hard to read), but the query output looks right.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
put a ton of breaks at the end of your page to push the debugging down the
page.
can you paste in a reply the actual sql string being executed please?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > what's the datatype of the user_id column? is it
> > varchar or numeric? if it's numeric, try a cfsqltype
> > of "cf_sql_numeric" instead.
>
> It's an Auto-Number with a "field size" of "Replication
> ID" [which is a GUID]. In the SELECT statements,
> calling it a cfsqltype of "cf_sql_longvarchar" seems to
> work, so you'd think it should work with the update
> statement.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
you'd think, seeing the sql string should help.
thanks,
.jeff
http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
--__--__--
Message: 33
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:10:50 +0000
From: Andrew Clover <and at doxdesk.com>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Form CSS styles
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Warning! excessively long and probably quite uninteresting to anyone
other than myself and Jeff <jeff at members.evolt.org>, who wrote:
> Go find another vendor (software, hardware, whatever) that
> has the breadth of product offerings that microsoft has
> that is better organized. ;p
I don't mean the whole of MSDN Library! Just the DHTML
reference. Lumme!
I don't even think it's especially badly organised (though
the frames 'n' ActiveX navigation is a pain in the bum)
- there's just too much of it in the first place!
> welcome to the wonderful world of computers. you're not
> supposed to have a comprehensive knowledge of it. it's
> all about specialization.
However, when you integrate everything into the web browser
so that everything is available from everything else, a
comprehensive knowledge is exactly what you need, otherwise
you get security holes. The developer of a feature that
accepts URLs has to know which URLs might be dangerous and
disallow them. If he's 'specialising' in his own field and
just sees URLs as pointing to a web document somewhere (as
URLs were originally designed to do, after all), he'll leave
a hole waiting for a 'javascript:...' hack. A developer of
the ActiveX control for playing Windows Media files now has
to worry about his unique ID being stealable from JavaScript.
And so on.
> behaviors are more than just a way to bind functionality to
> objects. they also keep all the logic for that functionality
> hidden away from the rest of the script on the page for code
> integrity.
Well great, except that any decent language can already do this
without a web browser's help. It's only JavaScript's weak object
model that prevents encapsulation - a proper fix would be to
improve JavaScript or use another language, not add random new
features to the web browser.
The web browser is complicated enough as it is. Adding
complicated new functionality, resulting in a bulkier, slower,
possibly-less-secure browser just to make the web programmer's
life a little easier does not seem like a good compromise to me.
(And I *am* a web programmer...)
> they can also greatly improve the maintenance of an application.
Maybe, but not a normal web site. Your idea of having this extra
functionality turned off by default and enabled by the user when
necessary (eg. the company Intranet) is a good one. This stuff
does not belong on the web.
> additionally, the idea of behaviors is a standard proposed
> by the w3c.
It's still in WD and shows no sign of ever becoming a
Recommendation, thank goodness.
> there's something similar being proposed by mozilla in the
> continuing work on the behavioral css spec called xbl or
> xml binding language
Yes, I personally think that's a waste of time too. (And
it's slightly more annoying than HTCs as being XML-based
you have to keep using CDATA sections if you want to use
'<' or '&' in your code.)
But it's only the idea of hiding scripting in styles through
their use of a 'binding:' CSS property that I find truly
idiotic. Behaviour has simply nothing to do with style.
They're leveraging stylesheets to get themselves Selectors
for free, but nothing else about CSS fits:
- CSS has no 'additive' properties, so you can't have
two behaviours on one object in separate rules, one
will override the other;
- CSS's basic concepts of cascading and inheritance have
no sensible meaning for behaviours;
- Author/user style negotiation makes no sense for
behaviours (apart from using it to turn behaviours
completely off !importantly, which is probably a good
idea <g>);
- putting executable content in stylesheets means more
possibilities for cross-site scripting problems; sites cannot
allow style to be submitted without implicitly (and probably
accidentally) allowing scripting.
> [behaviour examples]
Yes, I agree a colour picker could be useful. I've made my
own out of DHTML more than once. But if you're going to
build it into the browser, it would seem to be that -
<input type="color" value="#FF0000">
(or similar) would be a much simpler solution, requiring
no active scripting, and being more-or-less backwards
compatible (since other browsers would revert to type="text"
and allow the user to edit the colour value manually).
Similarly for sliders, something like -
<input type="range" value="50" size="0-100">
would be handy.
> userdata is *not* just like cookies. they're not sent with
> the http request so there's no way a site would know they
> exist unless they request them directly by name.
What difference does that make? They're a way of storing
information on the client with exactly the same potential for
abuse as cookies. Only we all know about cookies, we can
see them, block them at HTTP level, and manage/delete
them; hardly anyone knows UserData even exists. IE6's
useful Privacy controls don't apply to them either.
It would have been easier for everyone just to allow more
storage space for cookies and give them a "don't submit
this cookie automatically with every HTTP request" flag
than invent a new feature with a whole new set of
possible problems.
> investigate the navigator object. you can create any
> property of the navigator object you like. the information
> in that is *not* domain specific and can be interrogated by
> another domain with a simple for/in loop.
> unfortunately, it appears that ie6 has followed suit and also
> stores the info in the navigator object with no regard for
> the domain that created it.
Gahhh!
That's terrible, on both counts. Really, really poor.
Does the same apply to any other objects that are persisted
across documents?
> maybe i should submit a security notice and become famous
> too.
Heh. Yes, I really think you should, you know. I'd rather
like to see that fixed.
> opera 5 doesn't appear to let you interrogate the navigator
> object with a for/in loop (or it doesn't support for/in loops
> at all -- too lazy/busy to test that right now).
Yeah, ISTR for/in only works for plain Arrays in Opera, not
objects.
Not that I ever really understood the difference in JavaScript.
Something seems terribly wrong to me if mapping['length'] is
treated differently from mapping['anyOtherString']. But then
I probably already mentioned I don't think much of JavaScript
as a language...
(I don't seem to like anything much really, do I? :-)
Except prawn cocktail flavour crisps. They're very good.)
>> With the exception of 'alpha', which isn't really a filter
>> and has a much more sensible syntax already in SVG-CSS.
> maybe more sensible to you, but far more difficult to
> implement.
I only meant the simplest type -
<div style="opacity: 0.5">hello</div>
not any of the wacky advanced SVG stuff. (Mozilla seems to
have implemented this, under '-moz-opacity'.) No more difficult
to implement than it would be with 'alpha', and a considerably
easier syntax.
> there are some amazing effects you can produce with simple
> images and css using some of the transitions and filters
> available in ie.
Well, maybe. I've never seen a non-crap-looking effect but I
suppose it may be possible. :-) I just don't think it's appropriate
for a web browser to have to include image processing
visual effects.
> for example, the alpha filter can be used to make a png's
> transparency work properly (in combination with a behavior,
> no less):
Mm. It would have made life easier for everyone, though,
don't you think, if IE had just implemented PNG transparency
properly in the first place? AlphaImageLoader is an acceptable
temporary workaround, but not to have fixed it even in IE6
is poor indeed.
> expressions have their use. how about never having to write
> a routine to watch the resize event and manipulate the size
> and positioning of elements on the page ever again?
Yes. This could have been achieved with simple extensions to
CSS, however, without bringing in all the security worries of
JavaScript.
It also doesn't currently work properly in all situations,
because the browser can't work out which properties changing
would cause expressions to need to be re-evaluated. This is
a direct consequence of using JavaScript: it's a general
imperative (ie. Turing-complete) language, so you can't work
out what it will do without executing it.
> i already know javascript and how to interrogate and
> interact with elements in the document. i don't really want
> to have to learn more css.
Indeed not. Microsoft have leveraged your JScript knowledge.
MS love "leveraging" everything. But leveraging does not
usually beget good design.
>> [ActiveX]
> same could be said for javascript, applets, or plug-ins.
Yes, except that JavaScript is limited to what it can do
(or was, until it was allowed to access ActiveX objects),
applets have a security framework built-in, and plug-ins are
bound to filetypes by the user. ActiveX allows you to pick
out and instantiate any object you like, so they had better
all be completely secure or everyone's vulnerable. Of course
they can never all be 100% secure because there's so
blummin' many of them.
> maybe not useful on the web (with the exception of the
> "add to favorites" method)
Well, yes, window.external.addFavorite() is a pretty good
example of what I mean:
- it's of minimal usefulness, since there's a perfectly
good 'Add favorite' function in the browser which almost
everyone knows how to use;
- it can be used to bookmark a different URL than the
current page, a feature of little legitimate use
but handy for fooling people into bookmarking goatse.cx;
- the add-favorite dialogue box doesn't show the URL
being added, so users don't even know they're bookmarking
a page other than the current one;
- it allows javascript: and other dangerous URLs to be
bookmarked, thus giving an attacker access to the
document/cookies/etc. being used at the time the
bookmark is activated.
MS fixed the last bit of the problem in IE 5.01 Service
Pack 2 by adding a somewhat woolly warning, but only
javascript: and vbscript: are specifically detected - are
all the other URL types safe? There's an awful lot of them
to check now. It would have been simpler not to have
added the 'bookmark an arbitrary page' feature - but
Microsoft just love adding features.
> the last two guninski reported occurred in october of
> last year and december of last year.
People *like* Guninski, said I. ;-) All right, not everything
posted to bugtraq is a proper issue, but the stream of
IE bugs there seems utterly endless. This method doesn't
properly check input, that method gives access to things
it should, on and on forever. I get quite bored of it
really.
> i wouldn't even count the one in october as it's not
> even a security issue, but more of a user interface
> annoyance issue
Is that the putting-borderless-windows-above-IE's browser
features issue? If this is what you're talking about I have
to disagree. It may not be a security hole as we know it,
but it's a real problem.
How do we know that the site we're putting our credit
details into is really who they claim? The Location bar
and the padlock icon. How do we know whether to run or
save a file? The text on the confirmation window. And so
on. If a site can fake such browser furniture, all the
clever cryptographic security measures going on in the
background are moot.
Why on earth was the ability to open furnitureless windows
above the browser considered useful, for goodness sake?
It's not a new issue - Java applet windows are clearly
labelled as such for precisely this reason. Any competent
programmer could see it would cause problems, and it's
of minimal legitimate use to a web site. Why was this
capability added?
> if the feature has a purpose, whether that feature is
> useful to you or not, why should it be removed just
> because it could potentially be misused?
Because it can *only* be misused. For example, the last one
I submitted was to do with URLs in the form
"about:<script>...</script>". There is no possible
legitimate use for this - everything you could do like
that you could just as well do with a plain HTML page. It's
undocumented. It doesn't even work on IE/Mac. It means
yet more filtering work for user-submitted content sites.
But Microsoft *still* won't remove it, only fix a
security hole that it makes visible, and wait until it
interacts with some other feature to cause another hole.
> heck, a screwdriver could be misused (and often is) but
> you don't see them being pulled from the shelves do you?
True, however most manufacturers don't integrate an
electrified spike and a foot-shooting-gun into their
screwdrivers. ;-)
Anyway, back to the less ranty part of the discussion...
> yes, quite true. i've often wondered why [select-one,
> select-many] were implemented as the same tag.
Yeah. A lot of HTML forms suffers from legacy oddness
really. Wonder how the XForms lot are getting along?
> who cares anyway. it's not like all three opera users
> on the net are likely to make much difference. ;p
You're a bad man! :-)
Actually I really like Opera, in theory. They're adding
interesting new gadgets to the UI, which is refreshing as
IE and Netscape's interfaces had been stagnating a bit
recently. The page-zoom control is fantastic, and gestures are
quite nice too. Now they've made a proper SDI interface
available alongside the nasty MDI thing they always had,
I find it quite pleasant.
It's just a pity there's so little DOM support. With that
and the aforementioned 'overflow' support, it'd be a
pretty good browser IMO.
> uh, that's silly. scrolling to a set position can be
> quite necessary.
Yes, indeed. This side of things has been pretty much
ignored since DOM 2 Views stopped going anywhere. It's
a shame because there really should be standard way
of doing it. The offsetY/scrollY/etc. properties of IE and
Mozilla are okay, I suppose, and I'm damned glad we
have them, but it would be nice if they fitted into the
DOM way of doing things a bit better.
> hmmm, how is [optgroup] supposed to work now?
I think the original idea was to produce hierarchical menus.
However W3C have never followed through on their
threats to make <optgroup> nestable, so it's only
hierarchical to one sublevel.
Mozilla uses it as a 'heading' above a group of
<option>s. Other browsers ignore it (I haven't tried
it on Mac browsers though).
> What browsers support <optgroup> anyway?
Few - all the more reason to implement it in a funky
<select>-replacement script!
> every other works this way? try again.
> [examples]
D'oh... yes: all menus, it seems, work *both* ways.
Well, that was another pointless argument then. :-)
> this would suggest to me that the way a <select> works
> in the browser is how they've worked pretty much from the
> beginning and that the behavior you prefer is simply an add-on
> to cater to the usability preferences of people like you.
Possibly. W98SE seems to have the same dual behaviour.
I don't suppose anyone's got an old 3.1 installation around to
try?!
> i've made some changes to my example to do the same.
> [...] press "a", "a", "a" will take you to the third option that
> starts with "a" provided there isn't an entry that has "aaa"
> as the first three characters of it's label.
Sounds good.
hmm... if we're aiming for exact reproduction of the Windows
behaviour... pressing 'a' if you're on an 'a' entry already takes
you to the next 'a' even if the current 'a' you're on is an 'aa'.
And stuff. It's a bit weird.
> played around with that a bit, but wasn't able to get anything
> to work. the only "background" style property you can apply
> to an <option> appears to be background-color.
Yes, I would be replacing the <option> with a <div> from
script to allow it to be more stylable. Not sure whether the
'id' should be moved from the <option> to the new <div>
or whether a new ID should be generated for styling purposes
(eg. <option id="foo" value="Foo!">FOOOOO</option> would
transform to:
<div id="foo-option">
<span id="foo-icon"> </span>
<span id="foo-text">
FOOOOO
</span>
</div>
.) I don't know what I was talking about with Opera and scrolling
- this'll all have to DOM Core stuff, which would never work in
Opera anyway! ah well.
> the difference with webfx's example is that it only currently
> works with ie, probably due in part to some of the issues you
> noted above.
Interesting, I'd not seen this before. Looks quite nice.
The fade-effect is interesting.
Doesn't work if JS is disabled though, naughty WebFX!
argh. my fingers ache. good night. :-)
--
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://and.doxdesk.com/
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