[thelist] Search engine Optimization Questions

[Polina Grinbaum]

who did you use and how specifically were you dissatisfied.


> It's a jungle out there. The vast majority are either crooked or
> incompetent. I chose one that seemed reputable and was very
> dissatisfied. Waste of money.
>
> I am pretty sure there are good ones. You should definitely do the
> basics yourself -- you can make headway for less of an investment and
> you should know the basics anyway, before you try to hire.
>
> Following is a clip on this topic:
>
> --
>
> A few folks asked if I would share what I learned about promoting
> sites through search engines. Here is an overview.
>
> First: There is a MASSIVE amount of material out there. You can spend
> weeks studying this (I know, because I did!). And many, many days
> implementing the results. There are literally people who devote their
> lives to this field. There are chat communities and billions of sites.
>
> But: You don't need to obsess. The 80-20 rule applies. Spend 20% of
> the effort and achieve 80% of the result. Fact is that most sites
> don't even use META tags (a very easy step) so just doing that
> elevates you in some ratings.
>
> A very good single summary paper:
>
>    http://www.andreas.com/faq-searchengines.html
>
> That will be all many people need.
>
> Best source of detailed info on the topic:
>
>    http://www.searchenginewatch.com
>
> Summary of my research:
>
> Step one is to develop keywords and incorporate them in your pages.
> Then, submit your pages to the engines.
>
> PREPARING YOUR PAGES
>
> - To ready your pages, you need to look at the following:
>
> >  Title tag: Under 100 characters
> >  Description META tag: Under 150 characters
> >  Keyword META tag: Some say 847 characters. Some say between 847 and
> >1000. Several say under 1000.
> >  Content: The text on the page itself.
>
> Not all engines look at all of these but it's easy to get them all
> right and forget about who does what to whom. Best results come when
> all of these are in agreement and are sharply focused on whatever it
> is that will bring people to your page.
>
> - You definitely want to keyword your home page and major entries
> (e.g. product line pages, major application pages, employment and
> investor pages).
>
> - What keywords? That is the biggest challenge and rather than spell
> it out here, see:
>
>    http://www.stars.com/Search/Meta/Tag.html
>    http://www.thewritemarket.com/search/keywordstag.htm
>
> Many rules apply to keywords. Several sources say list the important
> ones first and keep repeated words to a minimum (e.g. if you have
> "electric train, diesel train, train parts, train engines" you should
> ease up on the trains.) Balance between general words that many
> people will use; and specific words that YOUR customers will use.
>
> - Don't spam. All the engines have measures to avoid spam and if you
> pull one of these tricks, you may be forcibly de-listed. Stupid
> tricks include listing a word many times; using colored letters on
> same-color background to invisibly splatter your page with words;
> using teeny tiny letters. Forget anything devious -- there is nothing
> you can try that the porn sites have not already used to ruin.
>
> SUBMISSION
>
> Once your pages are tuned, submit them to the engines.
>
> - Key search engines, in approximate order for my application (yours
> will vary -- in particular, most people will include AOL and Yahoo
> among their top choices and other engines feed various ISPs and
> partners. For instance, AOL uses ODP data; Yahoo uses Google for
> their engine data; Looksmart's directory feeds MSN which is the
> default on new Windows machines):
>
>   - AltaVista http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=addurl
>   - Yahoo http://howto.yahoo.com/chapters/10/1.html
>   - Excite http://www.excite.com/info/add_url
>   - Google http://www.google.com/addurl.html
>   - Looksmart http://www.looksmart.com
>   - All The Web (FAST) http://www.ussc.alltheweb.com/add_url.php3
>   - Open Directory Project (ODP) http://dirt.dmoz.org/add.html
>   - GoTo.com http://www.goto.com/d/about/advertisers/
>   - Infoseek/Go
http://infoseek.go.com/AddUrl?pg=SubmitUrl.html&lk=noframes
>   - Northern Light http://www.northernlight.com/docs/regurl_help.html
>
> (This list is tilted toward engineering users who favor the engines I
> listed first. Good news is that MOST of what you do will help you
> with all engines -- the engine choice does not greatly affect your
> strategy.)
>
> - Yahoo has a two-tier system. They look at the descriptions in their
> company listings; and they use Google to search the web. Your company
> description is very, very important for Yahoo users. One source at
> Yahoo said they use the description from MarketGuide to develop the
> description; but they have a description field in the Yahoo
> submission page and another source indicated that is what they use.
> Best guess is to work on both, which requires endless e-mail to both
> companies. Unless you have a friend at Yahoo, you just have to keep
> working them. Just getting my listing placed in the right category
> took me four months -- and that was -with- my inside friend's help!
> Yahoo very strongly resists any attempt to control their listings so
> be prepared to compromise or acquiesce!
>
> But they are number one, so you have to go this route. If you are not
> yet listed in Yahoo, use their Express Submission service and be
> careful to negotiate a good description. See
> www.searchenginewatch.com for guidelines.
>
> - Don't overlook the ODP, Open Directory Project. Like Yahoo, it is a
> human-run directory and uses volunteers to run each category. But a
> message asking for a change was implemented in one day. Not clear
> just how important they are but as of now, various folks, such as
> Netscape and AOL and Google, use ODP data.
>
> - The rest of the engines send robots your way. Process is this: You
> get your pages ready, then send the robots your URL (using the Submit
> addresses listed above). They come and do their thing and you're
> listed.
>
> Algorithms vary and places like SearchEngineWatch attempt to discover
> and report how they work. Best info seemed to be:
>
>    http://www.searchenginewatch.com
>    http://www.laisha.com/search/
>
> But don't sweat it too much unless you plan on developing pages
> designed for each engine (some people do).
>
> - When you submit, try not to submit dozens of pages to one engine.
> Spread the task over a few days.
>
> - Submission services are generally considered a waste, especially
> the ones that charge you. Submit to the top 15 manually; then use
> free submission services if you'd like to reach some others.
>
> - It takes a while, sometimes, for your submission to be processed.
> Often a long while, especially Yahoo. Yahoo will promise to review
> your submission in seven days if you pay them $300 a year:
>
>    http://add.yahoo.com/fast/add
>
> Note that this only affects speed of review -- it has no affect on
> whether you get listed.  They now require this for commercial
> entities.
>
> - The above will get you decent placement with most engines. Beyond
> that, my main conclusion is that search engine positioning is not
> nearly as important as the typical CEO thinks. ;-) But unfortunately,
> that makes it pretty darned important.
>
> So to go a step beyond:
>
> - Web Position Gold ($150) is a PC program that monitors your
> placement and suggests actions to improve it. It gets rave reviews. I
> think it is quite useful to monitor results; highly suspicious of the
> automatic submission gadgetry.
>
> - There are many, many  services that purport to help you boost your
> listing. Most seem to be bogus -- or, at least, not very effective.
> If you go with WebPositionGaold, you will see that they recommend
> coastalsites.com. I tried them and don't recommend them.
>
> - You can also pay for higher placement with some engines. Used to be
> only a few offered this; now most do. See:
>
>    http://searchenginewatch.com/resources/paid-listings.html
>
> - Smart (but sneaky) technique: Search using your desired keywords
> and see who appears at top. Go to their page and view the HTML, then
> emulate what they did!
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