On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Nick Wilson wrote: > I dont think the problem was with the OT post it was with the way that > admin handled the situation. Tip between my rant and my .sig. Gah! I hate meta-threads because they are neither on- nor off-topic, but I feel the need to respond. I for one have no issues with the way that Dan handled it, and wrote him offlist to say so. He was not addressing things in terms of 'it is unconscionably rude and almost always offtopic to dicuss sex/politics/religion here' (though that's true) - at least not as far as I saw. The post that pushed his buttons pushed mine, too. Those of you who've spent any time on my site might be able to figure out why. Mere rudeness is one thing. Breaking ancient taboos that exist for the best of reasons... ...Is another entirely. There are certain lines that are simply NOT to be crossed without prior consent, and Dan was IMO addressing such a violation. I'm as guilty as anyone in regard to declaring the Emperor to be wearing his birthday suit, but I generally try to do it in an appropriate context. I'm glad that we have an admin who's not afraid to stand up and make it crystal-clear that grenade-lobbing is emphatically a Bad Idea. (I'd provide some emphasis of my own, but the emphasis is part of Dan's demesne.) <tip type="Tableless layout" author="Ben Henick"> If you had the misfortune to start doing Web work after 1996 or so, you likely have a dim-at-best memory of the days when most pages were completely bereft of tables and table-based layout. But if you've got any of those memories, they're essential to creating effective table-based layouts. Why? Before tables became the Web's pick-and-shovel, a document's layout was reflected entirely by its source order. CSS frees those who know how to use it from *that* restriction, but the March of Progress changes not a jot the fact that we can once again start writing markup that has a sane source order. Which is important, for the sake of backwards compatibility, document portability, and search rankings. So - you take your comp. You figure out how you'd arrange the content if it had to be done in a completely linear way. And you arrange it that way, at least where the markup is concerned. When you're done, you can start writing your CSS to fit. I grant that this Order of Operations can be a huge PITA at first. But once you've gotten it down, you'll wonder what the big deal was. </tip> Regards, -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"