[thelist] Color Chooser Review

[Tom Dell'Aringa]

Jeff,

Again, I understand your points. I think we are mostly going to disagree here, which is perfectly
fine. Let me just answer you once more:

- With a controlled installed base, none of our users will turn off javascript ever. If they do
the WHOLE application will break, and my pages will be inconsequential. (we're talking one page
out of thousands here)
- As for supported browsers, if they decide to support lets say, NN6 - the WHOLE application would
have to be rewritten, believe me. My code would be far, far down that list. This company has made
a business decision to support one browser, because as I am sure you are aware, the costs of
supporting more than one rise dramatically.
- While you don't agree that the hand should mark a clickable area, other people think that is an
intuitive que. There is no right or wrong answer here.
- How much extra JS is going down the pipe? 3 short lines. Would I save that if I felt comfortable
with another solution? Absolutely.
- Reegineering for a portion of folks -- I simply don't agree. I see it as using the best solution
for our case. Granted some people are keyboard heavy users, they can still tab to the radio
button.
- as for me being too close to judge -- you're right.

But I will say this, you are coming from the stance of how YOU like to surf and what YOU think is
right. That is fine, for YOU. The usability of what I am building will entirely depend on our
installed customer base. Granted, I'm still building this and there has been no testing, but I
have a lot more information about my users than you do from your point of view. But I assure you,
when pages are tested if it comes back, "hey - we want labels!" then labels it will be.

Tom


--- ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org> wrote:
> tom,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Tom Dell'Aringa
> >
> > 1. A visual cue: The color changes on selection. Only
> >    the selected button text is that color.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> as i don't have a url to the app, i can't tell if that works with keyboard
> surfing or not.
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 2. Hitting the target: You DON'T have to hit the radio
> >    button with my solution (as I mentioned earlier) I
> >    have used an anchor in a span tag that calls the same
> >    function as called when the radio button hits. In
> >    addition, mousing over the text give you the "hand/
> >    pointer" so you know its clickable. Plenty of
> >    feedback, IMO.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> i have to hit the radio button if i don't have javascript enabled.
>
> i personally don't think the clickable area should change the cursor to a
> hand.  a hand indicates to the user that it's a link, not that it's
> clickable.  instead, the clickable region should change to an arrow, like
> labels do by default (instead of a text-beam like when you usually place
> your cursor over a block of text).
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 3. Ruining design? I think that's personal preference as
> >    long as the functionality is there.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> why reengineer something with javascript that only a portion of your
> audience can use.
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 4. What am I working on? The pages I am working on are
> >    part of a large, enterprise size application that
> >    runs only on installed users computers. This is not
> >    a "web site" as it were. You won't find it in a
> >    search engine, if you get my drift. The colors and
> >    features that I am using to help cue the users are
> >    in line with other functionality on the site, or as
> >    close as I can make it.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> you're sending extra data down the pipe so you can use your preferred
> javascript solution when using the <label> tag already has the functionality
> you desire built-in.  what are you going to do when the pointy-haired boss
> tells you that this application needs to work for a larger collection of
> users that you can't control the browsers that access it?  that's right,
> tear out your hair and hope i don't find out cause i'll tell ya "i told ya
> so".
>
> ;p
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > I also know that all of our users are on IE5, and we
> > don't support any other browser, no problem there (and
> > a luxury, I know.) [...]
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> look out, i think i here the pointy-haired boss coming down the hall towards
> your office.
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > So am I trying to design around a browser feature?
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> yes, you've recreated the functionality of the <label> tag because you don't
> like the "marching ants".  those "marching ants" are a browser feature.  so,
> yes, you are designing around a browser feature.
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > You be the judge, but I can only assure you that MY main
> > concern is that the user is able to use the controls I
> > design effectively and intuitively.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> some would argue, myself included, that it would be most intuitive for the
> most users if you were to use the <label> tag.
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > Jeff might not think that is the case - since he offered
> > a rather strong opinion ;)...but believe me it is.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view), you're not qualified
> to determine the effectiveness or usability of applications you write.
> you're too close to the development/design to be able to judge it
> objectively.
>
> .jeff
>
> http://evolt.org/
> jeff at members.evolt.org
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
>
>
> --
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