[thelist] Re: CSS 'hacks'

[Michael Mell]

Here are some more (less inflammatory) guidelines.

~ write code so that non-techies can add/amend content
~ write code so that time-related aspects need no maintenance. For example:
<?
$y = date("Y") +0;
for ($i=$y; $i<$y+7; $i++) { // display an <option> for this year and the next 6 to come
      echo "<option value=". $i .">". $i ."</option>";
}
?>


Michael Mell wrote:

> Whoa, I just stepped in a big one. Sorry for the unintended offense.
> I find Javascript extremely frustrating to work with. As a language and concept, it's wonderful.
> It's varied implementations across browsers and platforms makes using it in practice a major
> headache. I decided long ago to do everything possible on the server and use Javascript in the
> browser only when necessary.
>
> As you say, my guidelines do not fall any where close to the realm of the 12 practices listed in
> the XP FAQ I linked to. The XP school is simply a model I would like to see emulated in the realm
> of web coding.
>
> Rather than looking to offend, I hoped my post would generate a set of guiding principles for
> coding websites.
>
> So, Tom, do you have web site coding guide line you work with?
>
> Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>
> > Wow, I'm wanting to know more about the "Javascript as a system that suck(s)" and why, myself.
> > I've been in contact with XP before and think its a great idea. However, "avoid working with
> > systems that suck" may be your XP guidelines but that hardly falls under the 12 core practices
> > outlined in the FAQ!
> >
> > If you were attempting to adopt a XP philosophy in your work, you would not necessarily avoid
> > working with a system, as much as work with a system within the XP framework.
> >
> > Again, I realize these are your practices for yourself. But I don't see "javascript sucks so I
> > don't use it if possible" and XP matching up.
> >
> > Tom
> > --- Michael Mell <mike at nthwave.net> wrote:
> > > There is a concept floating around called Extreme Programming (XP). Here is a
> > > quick intro:
> > > http://www.jera.com/techinfo/xpfaq.html
> > >
> > > XP goes far beyond simple coding practices, but I have an intuitively defined
> > > set of guidelines that I think of as my XP guidelines.
> > > ~ do nothing that is not platform independent
> > > ~ avoid working with systems that suck (I include Javascript here)
> > > ~ if necessary to work with sucky systems, keep it to a minimum (most of CSS in
> > > NS4)
> > > ~ always build in an Object Oriented way (even my simplest websites use a CMS)
> > >
> > > Anyone have a more rigorous set of XP guidelines for html/css?
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > jcanfield at magisnetworks.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > > i'm not anti-css, in fact i definitely and wholeheartedly
> > > > > believe in separating style from content, but at the same
> > > > > time, i have a very strong aversion to what i call hacks
> > > > > (donning my flame retardant suit), so if anything, i am
> > > > > perhaps just a css anti-guru....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > rudy
> > > >
> > > > No, you're an evangelist for the true faith.
> > > >
> > > > Part of what's wrong with the web is that so many of us have felt compelled
> > > > to hack HTML for presentation instead of leaving it as a structural tool.
> > > > Standards are making progress, and the browsers are (albeit sluggishly)
> > > > following suit. Let's not submit ourselves to years of CSS hacks which we'll
> > > > all have to unlearn next year, the way we now all have to unlearn HTML
> > > > presentational hacks.
> > > >
> > > > joel
> > > > --
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> > >
> > > --
> > > mike[at]nthwave.net
> > > llemekim         YahooIM
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> > >
> > >
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> mike[at]nthwave.net
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>
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--
mike[at]nthwave.net
llemekim         YahooIM
415.455.8812     voice
419.735.1167     fax