From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Mon Nov 18 00:11:01 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Mon Nov 18 00:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 17-NOV-02
Message-ID: <200211180610.gAI6A1q8029552@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 17-NOV-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

IA/Usability: Courtesy titles and webform design recommendations (Author: siliconglen)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/4090/47272/index.html

Courtesy Titles. Their use, misuse and guidelines for flexible
international website design




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Mon Nov 18 00:40:00 2002
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Mon Nov 18 00:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
In-Reply-To: <020901c28ec7$1dfb74d0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>
Message-ID: <000301c28ecd$0ee713e0$5a04810a@maegreatha>

I think your problem is with the include statement itself:

> <!--#include virtual="officers1.html" -->

Virtual includes are root-relative, meaning you have to start the URI
with a slash, like this:

  <!--#include virtual="/officers1.html" -->

Or:

  <!--#include virtual="/path/to/file/officers1.html" -->

Try that. If that doesn't clear it up, please post the text of the error
message and we'll be able to dig a little deeper.

HTH!
--Ken

P.S. Don't forget to trim your replies!
     (This goes for everyone...)



From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Mon Nov 18 01:14:00 2002
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Mon Nov 18 01:14:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Nov 11, 2002
Message-ID: <200211180601.gAI61ITd029199@leo.evolt.org>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Nov 11, 2002 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20021111.html

Week at a glance listing at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/week/c/Week-of-Mon-20021111.html

Search the tips at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/


Harvest Summary
---------------

Number of messages: 558
Number of tips    : 12

Tip Authors
-----------

Junglee (1)
kristina (1)
Lachlan Cannon (1)
Liam Delahunty (1)
Michael Mell (1)
pixelmech (1)
Rob.Smith (3)
rudy (1)
Wade Armstrong (1)

Tip Types
---------

Bridges (1)
copyright (1)
debugging (1)
Enhancing Excellent Web Pages Exponentially (1)
form LABEL (1)
javascript (1)
PHP (1)
sql (1)
Visual Studio.NET (1)
Web Design Poem (1)


From jennie at surreal.nu  Mon Nov 18 01:39:01 2002
From: jennie at surreal.nu (jennie :D)
Date: Mon Nov 18 01:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] protecting files on a website
Message-ID: <000d01c28ed5$bcd8d3a0$6400a8c0@rei>

Hi. :)

I'm wondering how I can prevent visitors from downloading
my .css, .js, etc... files. I've tried .htaccess, but I haven't
been able to get it to work.

Thanks! Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

--Jennie



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Nov 18 01:49:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Nov 18 01:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] protecting files on a website
In-Reply-To: <000d01c28ed5$bcd8d3a0$6400a8c0@rei>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLIEGHFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

jennie,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: jennie :D
>
> I'm wondering how I can prevent visitors from
> downloading my .css, .js, etc... files. I've tried
> .htaccess, but I haven't been able to get it to work.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

start off by never putting them online.  that'll prevent everyone from
downloading them.

however, since these files are used for styling and scripting, i'm guessing
that's not really going to work for you.  you're probably hoping to find a
way to let the browser download it when your site is requested, but want to
keep prying eyes from viewing these files.  well, guess what?  you can't.
if the browser can see them, then prying eyes can see them in numerous
ways -- browser cache, using the view-source: protocol in the browser
window, using an http command tool, using scripting (like a bookmarklet) to
grab this data from the dom, etc., etc., etc.

no offense, but this is a fruitless journey.  give up before you get nasty
blisters on yoru feet for nothing.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk  Mon Nov 18 03:33:01 2002
From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED))
Date: Mon Nov 18 03:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] website security
Message-ID: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D02879290@EDUC_MXS>

Hi all

someone considerably higher up in the food chain here at work has asked me
to provide him with a summary of do's and don'ts for building a secure
website (probably on IIS lol). Does anyone know of any good sites that I can
look at or can anyone write me a brief summary. Your help would be much
appreciated in this one as my knowledge of this area is very sketchy (yes,
I've told him this, yes, I still have to do it) ;-)

tia

Julian

Julian Scarlett
Education Web Officer
Information Systems
Education Directorate
Sheffield City Council






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From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 03:53:00 2002
From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick)
Date: Mon Nov 18 03:53:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] website security
In-Reply-To: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D02879290@EDUC_MXS>
Message-ID: <7E66E491-FADB-11D6-9C43-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>

On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 09:34 AM, Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote:

> someone considerably higher up in the food chain here at work has
> asked me
> to provide him with a summary of do's and don'ts for building a secure
> website (probably on IIS lol).

Julian

A very good starting point is the 98 page PDF available at

	<http://www.owasp.org/guide/>

It covers all the things that you should be thinking about.

HTH

(security & IIS..... must resist....)

--
Andy Warwick

Creed New Media Design, Nottingham, UK
[t] +44 (0)115 8476867
[w] <http://www.creed.co.uk/src/evolt/index.htm>



From codebitch at macedition.com  Mon Nov 18 04:47:01 2002
From: codebitch at macedition.com (CodeBitch)
Date: Mon Nov 18 04:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] New technique for hiding CSS from OmniWeb
Message-ID: <B9FF1023.2318%codebitch@macedition.com>

Dear theListers,

I know I haven't been particularly active on this list for some time, and
apologies in advance to those who have already seen this announcement on
CSS-Discuss.

I have discovered a hack for hiding CSS stylesheets from OmniWeb. Just use
media="Screen" or media="All" instead of media="screen" or media="all".
(Detailed discussion of validity and case sensitivity in the article at the
URL below.)

Test page: http://www.macedition.com/cb/testers/owhide.html
Companion article: http://www.macedition.com/cb/cb_20021118.php

Warm regards,
CodeBitch

Encoded as a tip:
<tip type="CSS hiding" author="CodeBitch">
OmniWeb has some important gaps in its CSS support. If you have a lot of Mac
OS X-using readers, you might want to go to the bother of passing different
styles to OmniWeb than to other CSS-supporting browsers. To hide a CSS
stylesheet from OmniWeb, simply use media="Screen" or media="All" instead of
media="screen" or media="all".
</tip>

--
CodeBitch at MacEdition
http://www.macedition.com/cb/
Cracking the whip on your naughty HTML since 2000



From peter at duo.be  Mon Nov 18 05:49:01 2002
From: peter at duo.be (Peter Duchateau)
Date: Mon Nov 18 05:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
Message-ID: <B8E7647E-FAEB-11D6-9846-003065A79720@duo.be>

Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?

Why do/don't you use it ?



From cd-ml at aardvark.net.au  Mon Nov 18 06:25:01 2002
From: cd-ml at aardvark.net.au (Craig)
Date: Mon Nov 18 06:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Removing a link with JavaScript.
Message-ID: <003c01c28efd$6d81d310$3e76ddcb@FX>

Hi,

Is it possible with JavaScript to un-link a link?

If I had the following:
   <.a href="test.htm" name="lnkTest">Test<./a>
Using JS, how do I un-link it so Test is not an active link when hovered over?

I've tried the following script but it just changes the href value:
   <.script language="javascript">
       document.links[0].href="";
   <./script>

Is it possible?

Thanks,
Craig.




From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 06:42:00 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Mon Nov 18 06:42:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Removing a link with JavaScript.
In-Reply-To: <003c01c28efd$6d81d310$3e76ddcb@FX>
Message-ID: <000401c28efe$979b4d10$0400a8c0@webbtech.co.uk>

Craig

> Is it possible with JavaScript to un-link a link?
>
> If I had the following:
>    <.a href="test.htm" name="lnkTest">Test<./a>
> Using JS, how do I un-link it so Test is not an active link
> when hovered over?

Why would you want to hardcode a link that only actually links when the
keyboard is used to navigate? I suspect you're actually trying to
achieve something else that can probably be done using a different
method...

> I've tried the following script but it just changes the href value:
>    <.script language="javascript">
>        document.links[0].href="";
>    <./script>
>
> Is it possible?

I'm pretty sure that if you include onclick='return false;' in the
anchor tag you will achieve what you appear to want. Why not give us
some context?

Regards

Chris Marsh




From persist1 at io.com  Mon Nov 18 07:28:01 2002
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Mon Nov 18 07:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Removing a link with JavaScript.
In-Reply-To: <000401c28efe$979b4d10$0400a8c0@webbtech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211180720470.19425-100000@fnord.io.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Chris Marsh wrote:

> Why would you want to hardcode a link that only actually links when the
> keyboard is used to navigate? I suspect you're actually trying to
> achieve something else that can probably be done using a different
> method...
...
> >
> > Is it possible?
>
> I'm pretty sure that if you include onclick='return false;' in the
> anchor tag you will achieve what you appear to want. Why not give us
> some context?

As regards the desired solution...

You can manipulate the markup itself by changing its outerHTML property,
or the innerHTML property of its parent element.  That will only work on
IE, though.

Or you can accomplish the same thing with compliant code, which requires a
slightly more circuitous approach if the link you need to change is buried
in the document stucture.

I personally think you might want to consider the alternative of just
using CSS to style that particular link so that it's indistinguishable
from normal copy (which means fiddling with the pointer that results
onmouseover as well).  Then using JavaScript, go ahead and put another
style declaration behind the link's onfocus event, meaning that if a
keyboard users tabs to it, it will behave like a link more-or-less.

However, I have to agree that you might want to take a closer look at the
UI implementation... the objective risks breaking consistency in a
potentially nasty way, an outcome to be avoided.


--
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Associate Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Mon Nov 18 07:48:00 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Mon Nov 18 07:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BBBA@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Peter,

I usually do.  It's a very fast and easy way to find errors
where you have incorrectly spelled a variable name.

Depending on the situation and the size of the code, you
may otherwise spend hours trying to trace through the logic
to see why the page isn't working the way you expected it to.

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Duchateau [mailto:peter at duo.be]

Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?

Why do/don't you use it ?


From rick at kitty5.com  Mon Nov 18 07:54:00 2002
From: rick at kitty5.com (Rick [Kitty5])
Date: Mon Nov 18 07:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
References: <B8E7647E-FAEB-11D6-9846-003065A79720@duo.be>
Message-ID: <007c01c28f09$afb186c0$0100a8c0@sigma>

Peter Duchateau wrote:
> Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?
>
> Why do/don't you use it ?

Using option explicit is vital, as it forces you to declare all your
variables before use, aside from any possible performance gains it makes
code much simpler to debug.


Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.co.uk
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA



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From dan at danromanchik.com  Mon Nov 18 09:03:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
References: <000301c28ecd$0ee713e0$5a04810a@maegreatha>
Message-ID: <025201c28f13$7eb83ff0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

I tried that, too. I used the statement:

    <!--#include virtual="/newsletter/officers1.html"-->

with the same results. The error message is the generic:

    [an error occurred while processing this directive]

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Kogler" <ken.kogler at curf.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 1:38 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>


> I think your problem is with the include statement itself:
>
> > <!--#include virtual="officers1.html" -->
>
> Virtual includes are root-relative, meaning you have to start the URI
> with a slash, like this:
>
>   <!--#include virtual="/officers1.html" -->
>
> Or:
>
>   <!--#include virtual="/path/to/file/officers1.html" -->
>
> Try that. If that doesn't clear it up, please post the text of the error
> message and we'll be able to dig a little deeper.
>
> HTH!
> --Ken
>
> P.S. Don't forget to trim your replies!
>      (This goes for everyone...)
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From pvandijck at lds.com  Mon Nov 18 09:09:01 2002
From: pvandijck at lds.com (Peter VanDijck)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_gzip
References: <000901c28cf0$406fe5b0$0a00a8c0@Aleem>
Message-ID: <3DD90256.CE1168FB@lds.com>

Hi all,
I was looking for ways to reduce my bandwidth and someone suggested
mod-gzip. (It compresses pages before they are sent to the browser - the
browser then decompresses them.) Bandwidth reductions of 50% seem
common, but good documentation seems really hard to find. My questions:

- My pages get generated by PHP using mod_rewrite. Is that a problem?
- How hard is it to set up for someone with limited sysadmin skills but
complete access to a virtual server? What's the average amount of
tinkering time needed to get it to work ok?
- Any issues I should be aware of?
- Good documentation?

Cheers,
Peter


From Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br  Mon Nov 18 09:16:01 2002
From: Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br (Amazon Paulo)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
Message-ID: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB0BC568ED@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br>

>Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?

Yes, I always do.

>Why do/don't you use it ?

I can't see any reason not to use. Without the Option Explicit clause, your
script will be much more sucetible to logical erros, and you'll take much
longer to solve them. I think it should not be optional.

Paulo Guedes


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Mon Nov 18 09:16:09 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:16:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
Message-ID: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C686973A@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> with the same results. The error message is the generic:
> [an error occurred while processing this directive]

Two questions:

1) Have you ever successfully used SSI on this server?
2) Try using a file directive: <!--#include file="officers1.html" -->

Josh
http://www.efeingold.com


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Mon Nov 18 09:21:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
Message-ID: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C686973B@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?

Usually not.

>Why do/don't you use it ?

I find that most of my ASP applications are not complicated enough to
require option explicit.  I have yet to accidentally misuse a variable due
to my lack of declaration, which seems to be the main reason to do use
option explicit.  However, if I create an application which calls other
pages from within that page or some other place where variables can be
easily confused I use option explicit.

Josh
http://www.efeingold.com


From rick at kitty5.com  Mon Nov 18 09:22:00 2002
From: rick at kitty5.com (Rick [Kitty5])
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
Message-ID: <004501c28f15$fabe0ec0$0100a8c0@sigma>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Is it possible to use some javascript to make all links on a page contain a querystring variable?

eg get javascript to add '?foo=fee' to all links


Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.co.uk
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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--



From p+evolt at redbrick.dcu.ie  Mon Nov 18 09:23:00 2002
From: p+evolt at redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] website security
In-Reply-To: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D02879290@EDUC_MXS>; from Julian.Scarlett@sheffield.gov.uk on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 09:34:35AM -0000
References: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D02879290@EDUC_MXS>
Message-ID: <20021118152238.A27470@prodigy.Redbrick.DCU.IE>

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 09:34:35AM -0000, Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote:
> Hi all
>
> someone considerably higher up in the food chain here at work has asked me
> to provide him with a summary of do's and don'ts for building a secure
> website (probably on IIS lol). Does anyone know of any good sites that I can
> look at or can anyone write me a brief summary.

Do: go to monster.com and post up looking for a security professional.
Don't: Hire someone who doesn't know anything.

(:

There's a very useful collection of links at this site,
under 'securing OSs'
http://heap.nologin.net/


- Kevin


From kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com  Mon Nov 18 09:29:00 2002
From: kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com (Kyle Murphy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <3DD5F410.2823.45160E@localhost>
Message-ID: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>

Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
800x600...and, if so, why?

Kyle Murphy
Web Software Engineer
Clearview Staffing Software
972.381.9777 ext. 22

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mark Groen
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 9:30 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2

On November 16, 2002 at 13:51, it was wrote:

> >THis is what we shall do with the DOM:
> >http://www.microbians.com/
> >From the drop down menu - select 'Draw across windows'

> Yes, that's a nice example. It doesn't strictly require the W3C DOM,
> though, some good DHTML support is enough.
You also have to be viewing at greater than 800x600 eh.

> But it is the kind of application I'm talking about.

The drag thingee is kinda cool, I can see it being used to drag items
into
a shopping cart, creating schedules etc. hmmm...

Regards,

	Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mark at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !




From mattmacleod12 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 09:44:01 2002
From: mattmacleod12 at yahoo.co.uk (Matt MacLeod)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mac Users - site check please!!!
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

Hi,

I've been given about half an hour to tweak the layout for
www.bigbarn.co.uk/finefood/ and I need to check it in IE5/Mac.

I'd appreciate it if anybody could send me a screenshot taken on a Mac so I
can see how it looks.

Cheers Matt



From carole at pixeltable.com  Mon Nov 18 09:48:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJKEEJFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi Kyle,

:....do people still use 800x600...and, if so, why?

yes... first it's a good usability issue to still fit corp sites on
800x600 - think Unix network using Novell who endorsed Netscape 3 + 4 eons
ago... these companies are NOT ready to upgrade.

also - depending on your audience stats. for ex. people who visit netdiver -
90% + use high screen res BUT they, like I do, surf with multiple windows
opened. Meaning - my browsers windows are roughly sized around 800x600 so I
can view many sites at the same time.

there are other considerations as well (Mac users for one).
hth.

.c

..communication design + webdev + http://pixeltable.com
...new media culture_magazine + design portal + http://netdiver.net



From mark at markgroen.com  Mon Nov 18 09:54:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
References: <3DD5F410.2823.45160E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DD89C58.6482.8B81FC@localhost>

On November 18, 2002 at 9:30, Kyle Murphy wrote:

> Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
> 800x600...and, if so, why?

I'm using 17" monitors and higher resolutions make it more difficult to
read text. Don't have time right now to actually dig up the stats, but IIRC
1024 x 768 is not the most common setting among the general
population.


Regards,

	Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mark at markgroen.com
604-780-6917


From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Mon Nov 18 09:58:01 2002
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (matt s.)
Date: Mon Nov 18 09:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mac Users - site check please!!!
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD90DD6.9C4F1C77@lightbulbpress.com>

--
Here's a couple of screen shots. Mac OS 9.2, IE 5.1.5. Hope that helps...

.matt



Matt MacLeod wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been given about half an hour to tweak the layout for
> www.bigbarn.co.uk/finefood/ and I need to check it in IE5/Mac.
>
> I'd appreciate it if anybody could send me a screenshot taken on a Mac so I
> can see how it looks.
>
> Cheers Matt
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
--
Content-description: Unknown Document

[ finefood_mac_ie5.jpg was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]
--
Content-description: Unknown Document

[ finefood2_mac_ie5.jpg was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]


From tracyh at mid.org  Mon Nov 18 10:01:06 2002
From: tracyh at mid.org (TRACY HERBECK)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:01:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Tips on Finding Freelance Projects
Message-ID: <02Nov18.080017pst.116165@firewall.mid.org>

Message: 4
CC: "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com>

Hi Brian,

When I was doing freelance work, I found work pretty easily on
www.craigslist.org.  I just posted my resume, skill set and a list of
URLs from previous work.  The first time I posted, I receive a reply
within 30 minutes.  Times are a little tougher now, perhaps.

Good luck....

Tracy


On 11/15/02 7:49 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

> Just wondering what has been successful for other freelancers out
there as
> they look for projects? The development end of this business does not
seem
> to be the difficult part. It's the sales end that I am inefficient at
(Cold
> Calling). Anyone care to share a few trade secrets on what works for
you
> when your friends and family leads dry up?
>
> TIA,
> Brian


From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Mon Nov 18 10:02:01 2002
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (matt s.)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mac Users - site check please!!!
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
 <3DD90DD6.9C4F1C77@lightbulbpress.com>
Message-ID: <3DD90EDB.B5E20896@lightbulbpress.com>

woops. sorry, meant to send this to Matt MacLeod, not the list.

.matt


"matt s." wrote:

> --
> Here's a couple of screen shots. Mac OS 9.2, IE 5.1.5. Hope that helps...
>
> .matt
>
> Matt MacLeod wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been given about half an hour to tweak the layout for
> > www.bigbarn.co.uk/finefood/ and I need to check it in IE5/Mac.
> >
> > I'd appreciate it if anybody could send me a screenshot taken on a Mac so I
> > can see how it looks.
> >
> > Cheers Matt
> >
> > --
> > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> >
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> > Workers of the Web, evolt !
> --
> Content-description: Unknown Document
>
> [ finefood_mac_ie5.jpg was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]
> --
> Content-description: Unknown Document
>
> [ finefood2_mac_ie5.jpg was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !



From mattmacleod12 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 10:16:01 2002
From: mattmacleod12 at yahoo.co.uk (Matt MacLeod)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mac Users - site check please!!!
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118162124.00a13290@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

Thanks guys!!!


At 15:49 18/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've been given about half an hour to tweak the layout for
>www.bigbarn.co.uk/finefood/ and I need to check it in IE5/Mac.
>
>I'd appreciate it if anybody could send me a screenshot taken on a Mac so I
>can see how it looks.
>
>Cheers Matt
>
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and
>archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From evolt at marsorange.com  Mon Nov 18 10:29:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_gzip
In-Reply-To: <3DD90256.CE1168FB@lds.com>
Message-ID: <D3F53110-FB12-11D6-AC08-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

Peter...

When mod_gzip is installed and enabled, the HTTP server will send the
content encoded with gzip compression ONLY IF the requesting user-agent
has gzip listed in it's "Accept-Encoding" header. Otherwise, the
connection will proceed without compression. Most modern browsers do
support gzip.

AFAIK, the module works fine with PHP. It seems like output buffering
in PHP would be a good practice if your expecting the pages to be
gzipped on-the-fly...

You need to understand how to install new Apache modules, if mod_gzip
is not already installed, and edit the httpd.conf file in order to make
it work (see doc links below). If you only have user-level access to a
virtual server, this may be a problem... modules must be installed by
root.

The drawbacks are:

--- processing overhead --- which is minor in most cases and can be
completely circumvented by pre-gziping files, so that the server just
sends the compressed file instead of compressing on-the-fly. This
technique would only work for static files [i.e. not PHP], though.

--- proxy/cache issues --- Apparently, some proxies and caches (that
read actual HTML content such as meta-tags) do not play well with
gzip-compressed HTTP content. I am left wondering if those devices
would munge the page, drop the connection or throw an error?

For unofficial documentation, see:
	http://www.schroepl.net/projekte/mod_gzip/
	http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/2000/1105.html

Mars :)



From stevejenkins444 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 18 10:36:01 2002
From: stevejenkins444 at hotmail.com (Steve Jenkins)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MediaSurface Contract (UK, South East)
Message-ID: <DAV17xLkxxUOka09NmX00001ec4@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I work for a SE England agency. We have a three-four month MediaSurface
contract coming up shortly, and are looking for contractors to assist us
service this contract. Anyone out there possibly interested?

If you have such experience, do please email me your CV/details detailing
your MediaSurface experience, and ideally an indication of rate. No agencies
please.

Regards, Steve.



From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Mon Nov 18 10:39:00 2002
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:39:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
References: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <004501c28f21$960fb620$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>



> Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
> 800x600...and, if so, why?


1. Default.
In a lot of cases programs and computer folks define best viewed at 800x600
Most business programs use this as the default size.
Most video cards sold presently are defaulted at this.
Very little furniture is built to establish the 16" to 20" viewing distance
that ergonomic literature(out of date) specifies as a 'good distance'.

Cubical manufactures do not think about the computer as the primary
information/work tool. (this is getting better, but the cost in relation to
the benefit usually has the button sorters stroking out)

2. Monitor size. Bigger monitors require more space. Folks move them farther
back on their desks. At higher resolution the images become unreadable.

3. Lack of information regarding display properties. Yes you can use large
icons on windows, but how many folks know that? Yes you can change the
colors, fonts, font sizes, and focus colors, but how many folks know that or
are allowed to make these changes?

4. Cost. Most major brand manfactured computers in service have either
shared video memory or 8 MB of video memory. At higher resolutions this
impacts performance,(screen refreshes, screen drawing, display color depth,)
At higher resolutions, to mitigate this performance hit, the video card
palatte will degrade from 32 to 24 to 16 bit to 256 colors.

5. Vision difficulties. Folks who wear glasses, may or may not use them when
working on a computer. This relates back to the viewing distance between the
operator and the monitor. Color blindness is also a factor, as if you cannot
see them, 32bit color is not an enhancement.
(I wear bifocal glasses for driving and reading, but they sit on the counter
when I am on the keyboard)

6. Productivity Impact. There are very few compelling arguments for screen
refreshing justifying an investment in a video card that will run quake3,
but because of the system bus, ram, harddrive speed, etc. really providing
any sort of productivity increase.

7. Folks are happy at 800x600.
This puts the ball back in the court of the designer/developer.

<tip type="eyeglasses" author="head lemur">
When ordering 'reading or computer eyeglasses measure the distance you
actually are from the monitor. Eyeglass companies will build them for
16"-20" which may not be correct and you will just be pouring money down a
rathole.
Have somebody measure the distance you Actually sit from the screen.
</tip>

the head lemur
News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/
Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/
Standards: http://webstandards.org
Community: http://www.evolt.org




From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 10:45:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:45:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
References: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <005501c28f21$c6eabb00$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Try setting your resolution above 800x600...

hey, i even know how (many people don't)

one conclusion, developed over many years of web surfin and searchin,
is that sites which require you to change a setting invariably disappoint

exceptions include the avant-garde, the experimental, and the wacky

dragging stuff between windows is experimental, right?  (yes, i looked --
ordinarily i would have bailed within two or three seconds of arrival)

still, they shoulda explained that, and above the 640 fold, so to speak

everyone loves the wacky, but if the changes offend (e.g. xupiter, gator),
one seldom goes back, and ends up avoiding the entire genre

that leaves the avant-garde

i realise wars have been fought over less, but i personally distinguish the
experimental from the avant-garde based on whether the boundaries being
tested are technological or artistic

yeah, yeah, i know it's not an either-or classification, so sue me

i have yet to see an avant-garde site that benefitted from changing a
setting

i love flash, by the way, despite that so many avant-garde sites use it


> do people still use 800x600...and, if so, why?

yes ...  because!

i also wear my hair short and have no body piercings

;o)



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Nov 18 10:51:01 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX, IIS 5 and Custom Errors
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118104120.01911380@mail.imaginuity.com>

I have a site that is running ColdFusion MX and IIS 5.  I want IIS to
handle the 404 errors for .cfm files, not CFMX.  Under CF5, this was easily
solved under IIS Manager by setting "Check that File Exists" to
true.  ColdFusion MX does not appear to honor this IIS setting, as CFMX
always processes errors for .cfm files regardless of that setting.

Is there any way to force IIS to check for the existence of files, not
CFMX?  I've Googled and trawled Macromedia's site and message boards and I
can't find anything.  Any ideas?

--Ben



From jacques_capesius at cnt.com  Mon Nov 18 10:53:00 2002
From: jacques_capesius at cnt.com (Jacques Capesius)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:53:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
Message-ID: <6561B23FEAA18F45AE6A667DBE02C7671FC73A@esply05>

Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?

I always do it, unless I forget ;)

Why do/don't you use it ?

I use option explicit with the express purpose of making the ASP code less
forgiving. Since option explicit forces me to dim all of my variables, it
holds me to what I personally think is better programming practice.


From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 10:53:07 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:53:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
References: <3DD5F410.2823.45160E@localhost>
Message-ID: <200211181652.gAIGqpSL023388@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Kyle Murphy"
<kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com>
>
> Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
> 800x600...and, if so, why?

- yes...
- because they want to...

let's not forget, not everyone has the same phat system as we all
do... believe it or not, i've been to many libraries and even corporate
environments that still run at 640x480, partly because they have to,
partly because some users want it (people over 40 do surf, after all,
and they don't always have great vision, or control over their
computer environment)...

of course, that question shouldn't even require an answer here,
since you have the ability to find it for yourself, and for your very
own audience, even:

Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I
http://evolt.org/article/list/17/2295/


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 10:53:30 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:53:30 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
In-Reply-To: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C686973A@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <200211181652.gAIGqvSL023394@leo.evolt.org>

woo hoo! mail's almost back up, only 632 messages behind...

> From: Feingold Josh S <Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov>
>
> 1) Have you ever successfully used SSI on this server?
> 2) Try using a file directive: <!--#include file="officers1.html" -->

see if this helps any (just basic documentation):

Including Files in ASP
http://evolt.org/article/list/17/1344/

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Mon Nov 18 10:57:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] option explicit
In-Reply-To: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C686973B@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <B9FE5BC4.2DDD4%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/18/02 7:16 AM, Feingold Josh S at Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov wrote:
>> Do you guys use "option explicit" in you ASP files ?
>
> Usually not.
>
>> Why do/don't you use it ?
>
> I find that most of my ASP applications are not complicated enough to
> require option explicit.

In contrast, I find that it helps with even the simplest scripts. When I
fat-finger a variable name, for instance, strTxet when I mean strText,
rather than having my brand-new misspelled variable have the value of "",
which then takes some tracing within the code to fix, I have the line and
character number of my typo in an error message.

In large applications, you should be encapsulating everything in Functions
and Subs and Objects, making almost all of your variables private rather
than public. You shouldn't have that much trouble re-using variable names;
rather, your benefit here is from the faster execution you get with Option
Explicit.

Wade



From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Nov 18 10:57:12 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Nov 18 10:57:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C528A@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> I tried that, too. I used the statement:
>
>     <!--#include virtual="/newsletter/officers1.html"-->

You may want to add a space before the closing of the SSI:
 <!--#include virtual="/newsletter/officers1.html" -->

And just to confirm what others have said, the CSS template wouldn't
cause this problem (I use SSI/XSSI extensively on my site, which uses
[surprise!] that template).

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From dan at danromanchik.com  Mon Nov 18 11:02:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>
References: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C528A@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <02c901c28f24$2c9e4640$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

Geez, I hate to admit this....

The problem was that I forgot to upload the file to be included. D'oh!

Sorry for the dumb question,

Dan
p.s. Thanks again for the great templates, Craig.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saila, Craig" <Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] SSIs not working inside a <div>


> > I tried that, too. I used the statement:
> >
> >     <!--#include virtual="/newsletter/officers1.html"-->
>
> You may want to add a space before the closing of the SSI:
>  <!--#include virtual="/newsletter/officers1.html" -->
>
> And just to confirm what others have said, the CSS template wouldn't
> cause this problem (I use SSI/XSSI extensively on my site, which uses
> [surprise!] that template).
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Craig Saila
> ------------------------------------------
> craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
> ------------------------------------------
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From ray at camdenfamily.com  Mon Nov 18 11:09:00 2002
From: ray at camdenfamily.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX, IIS 5 and Custom Errors
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118104120.01911380@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c28f25$24d07b80$6461a8c0@vader>

Ben - I'm not seeing this. Is this a multi-homed server? You may need to
do the 'check that file exists' thing on each of the sites.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : ray at camdenfamily.com
WWW      : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Ben Dyer
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:50 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX, IIS 5 and Custom Errors
>
>
> I have a site that is running ColdFusion MX and IIS 5.  I want IIS to
> handle the 404 errors for .cfm files, not CFMX.  Under CF5,
> this was easily
> solved under IIS Manager by setting "Check that File Exists" to
> true.  ColdFusion MX does not appear to honor this IIS
> setting, as CFMX
> always processes errors for .cfm files regardless of that setting.
>
> Is there any way to force IIS to check for the existence of files, not
> CFMX?  I've Googled and trawled Macromedia's site and message
> boards and I
> can't find anything.  Any ideas?
>
> --Ben
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com  Mon Nov 18 11:13:01 2002
From: kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com (Kyle Murphy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <200211181652.gAIGqpSL023388@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001001c28f25$ed5c0d30$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>

That was a rhetorical question, by the way.  I knew I was going to get
tons of negative responses.

Just to clear it up...No, I'm not an avant-garde designer/developer, no
I don't have any body piercings (and, if I did I wouldn't tell you), and
I do realize that some corporate environments are still in the stone
ages.  That just sucks...plain and simple.

However, the original post was to go look at a designer's "experimental"
site & most people who are going to look at it are designers with 21"
monitors set at much higher resolution than 800x600.

Just baffles me that so many people still keep it that low, though.
Makes for horrible graphics rendering in my opinion....

Kyle

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of aardvark
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:53 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2

> From: "Kyle Murphy"
<kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com>
>
> Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
> 800x600...and, if so, why?

- yes...
- because they want to...

let's not forget, not everyone has the same phat system as we all
do... believe it or not, i've been to many libraries and even corporate
environments that still run at 640x480, partly because they have to,
partly because some users want it (people over 40 do surf, after all,
and they don't always have great vision, or control over their
computer environment)...

of course, that question shouldn't even require an answer here,
since you have the ability to find it for yourself, and for your very
own audience, even:

Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I
http://evolt.org/article/list/17/2295/


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Nov 18 11:14:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB89@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> Is it possible to use some javascript to make all links on a
> page contain a querystring variable?
>
> eg get javascript to add '?foo=fee' to all links

I do that on my site to switch templates...
 <http://www.saila.com/> (normal)
 <http://www.saila.com/?lowfi> (text-only)
...but it only works in W3C-DOM-compatible browsers.

The code snippet here would check to see if the query string contained a
variable, say "?foo=fee", and if it did it would add "?foo=fee" to all
the links:

(where v = the query string, for example, "?foo=fee")

function changeLink(v){
  var links = document.getElementsByTagName("a");
  for(x = 0; x < links.length; x++){
    v = escape(v)
    var the_link = escape(links[x])
    if((the_link.indexOf(v)!=-1){
      links[x].setAttribute("href",unescape(the_link) + v)
    }
}

You'd call this function at the end of a page or onload. You may also
want to add filters in here (for example some links may have a
hard-coded query string, others you may not want to change).

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From carole at pixeltable.com  Mon Nov 18 11:33:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM - part 2
In-Reply-To: <001001c28f25$ed5c0d30$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJKEFCFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

:That was a rhetorical question, by the way.  I knew I was going to get
:tons of negative responses.

thumb of rule: knowest your audience well :))

.c


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Mon Nov 18 11:42:02 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Mon Nov 18 11:42:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Double login to a Secure Intranet Problem
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E446B@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi List,

About a half a year ago our company released a secure extranet to all our
employees world wide, which would provide a dynamic information vehicle to
special groups. The only encryption used is Windows NT/Challenge Response.
The site is running on a Win NT box, IIS 4.0. The clients are supposed to be
using IE 5.1 or greater and nothing else.

When our users "logon" to the extranet, they're prompted to enter their NT
account info: username, password, and domain. If the users click, remember
my password, and click ok (to log on), they are prompted with a second
password box, and have to reenter their NT account info. How can I avoid the
second login?

Additional info: The powers that be absolutely refuse to configure each
users browser security settings. They absolutely refuse to pay the presumed
5-digit payment to authenticate to Verisign or whomever controls the
verified authentication stuff to make us an official "Trusted Site." In
addition to the "Trusted site" issue, we're getting the expected security
warnings upon opening docs such as *.doc, *.xls, etc. This is starting to
get on their nerves.

Thanks guys/gals/(other?),

Rob.Smith


From pvandijck at lds.com  Mon Nov 18 12:11:00 2002
From: pvandijck at lds.com (Peter VanDijck)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_gzip
References: <D3F53110-FB12-11D6-AC08-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <3DD92D25.163EE942@lds.com>

Thanks!
Peter

MarsHall wrote:
>
> Peter...
>
> When mod_gzip is installed and enabled, the HTTP server will send the
> content encoded with gzip compression ONLY IF the requesting user-agent
> has gzip listed in it's "Accept-Encoding" header. Otherwise, the
> connection will proceed without compression. Most modern browsers do
> support gzip.
>
> AFAIK, the module works fine with PHP. It seems like output buffering
> in PHP would be a good practice if your expecting the pages to be
> gzipped on-the-fly...
>
> You need to understand how to install new Apache modules, if mod_gzip
> is not already installed, and edit the httpd.conf file in order to make
> it work (see doc links below). If you only have user-level access to a
> virtual server, this may be a problem... modules must be installed by
> root.
>
> The drawbacks are:
>
> --- processing overhead --- which is minor in most cases and can be
> completely circumvented by pre-gziping files, so that the server just
> sends the compressed file instead of compressing on-the-fly. This
> technique would only work for static files [i.e. not PHP], though.
>
> --- proxy/cache issues --- Apparently, some proxies and caches (that
> read actual HTML content such as meta-tags) do not play well with
> gzip-compressed HTTP content. I am left wondering if those devices
> would munge the page, drop the connection or throw an error?
>
> For unofficial documentation, see:
>         http://www.schroepl.net/projekte/mod_gzip/
>         http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/2000/1105.html
>
> Mars :)
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Nov 18 12:12:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:12:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
In-Reply-To: <004501c28f15$fabe0ec0$0100a8c0@sigma>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEHKFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

rick,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Rick [Kitty5]
>
> Is it possible to use some javascript to make all links
> on a page contain a querystring variable?
>
> eg get javascript to add '?foo=fee' to all links
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yup, easy as pie.  check this out for an example of this:

http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/ammend_links.cfm

all variations are accounted for:

1)  links that already have a query string attached, but
    with different name/value pairs
2)  offsite links that don't need to have the name/value
    pair attached.
3)  name/value pair with an unknown value.
4)  name/value pair that is one of several name/value
    pairs in the url (making it impossible to simply
    append location.search, but having to parse out the
    name/value pairs first)

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Nov 18 12:14:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB89@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEHLFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

craig,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Saila, Craig
>
> ...but it only works in W3C-DOM-compatible browsers.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

... but it doesn't need to be built that way.  why build it to require a
w3c-dom compatible browser when it can be built to work on dom 0 browsers
just fine?

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 12:16:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEHLFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEENAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002



From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Mon Nov 18 12:21:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: legalities of posting received emails on a website
In-Reply-To: <20021118164125.DDA5BBFCB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021118131050.00a66d90@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

I would think so.  Once it reaches my house (regular mail) it is mine.  The
good is read while the spam/advertisements are sorted into various
recycling piles.  Any that have the post paid mailing label are promptly
sent back with documents for other services stuffed back in (for good
measure).  The same thing can be said of UCE/spam I receive in my email as
well.  I'm currently collecting a bunch of this and adding commentary for a
part of the humor portion on my personal site.  If they don't want it
posted perhaps they should reconsider sending it.

That being said, if the email was not UCE/spam but was still something I
want to post I'll strip all headers and ensure complete anonymity for all
parties involved before posting it to my public site.  Unless anything is
strictly marked as confidential or for myself only it's fair game.

-benjamin

At 10:41 AM 11/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Does email and postal mail differ in legalities? My understanding of
>postal mail is that once the mail is put into the post the recipient of
>that letter is the "owner" of it legally. Would this not be the same for
>email? Once it's received does not the recipient then "own" the message?
>
>~ Merlene



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Mon Nov 18 12:28:03 2002
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:28:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEENAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLACEHIECAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>

Mojo Mail.

Absolutely love it. Mimics almost all of the functionality
found with apps like Topica, and can be completely customized
in every way possible. Handles small lists, large lists, has
batch sending options, etc.

http://mojo.skazat.com/


Cheers,

Anthony







| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
| Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:19 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
|
|
| can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?
|
| Andrew
ers of the Web, evolt !


From a_j_dalton at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 18 12:31:00 2002
From: a_j_dalton at hotmail.com (AJ Dalton)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] legalities of posting received emails on a website
Message-ID: <F59LepTyaGWpWrZ3YAb00010193@hotmail.com>

Hi All -

The web is a new ball game - and I'm glad we're seeing discussions on this
and other things like it.

RE:  the original question - 'is it legal'?

The discussion went to ownership.  Maybe that is not the right question.  A
painting or a car are items with value.  E-Mai is communication.  It is not
a work of art produced for one's own sake or for sale.

I doubt that any court would uphold any claim if you posted verifiable
copies of communication as 'information' or 'news'.  We see this all the
time.

I assume that the recipient isn't trying to sell it or convey title to it
and probably is not trying to make a profit from it directly.  Consumer
reporters write about businesses' actions and communications all the time.
They are merely reporting on something that happened.

FWIW,



AJ









_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Nov 18 12:43:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB8A@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: .jeff [mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: November 18, 2002 1:13 PM

> ... but it doesn't need to be built that way.  why build it
> to require a w3c-dom compatible browser when it can be built
> to work on dom 0 browsers just fine?

Because that's how I built it! ;)

(The script snippet was taken from my own site's core script. Since the
only versions of my site that gets it should be the W3C-DOM compliant
browsers -- which make up about 90% of my audience -- that's how I built
it.

The DOM 0 way would be just as good, and maybe better, but I'm more
comfortable doing it the W3C-DOM way.

For the record, here's the DOM 0 version of the aforementioned script
which works in most browsers:
function changeLink(v){
  var links = document.links;
  for(x = 0; x < links.length; x++){
    v = escape(v)
    var the_link = escape(links[x])
    if((the_link.indexOf(v)!=-1){
      links[x].href = unescape(the_link) + v
    }
  }
}
)

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From glenn at glenncarr.com  Mon Nov 18 12:46:01 2002
From: glenn at glenncarr.com (Glenn Carr)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] how to charge for ads?
Message-ID: <007c01c28f32$9e9ef6f0$eb97eac0@carr>

A client wants to charge for ads and is asking me how to structure the pricing.
And I have no idea.  Does anyone have any pointers to guidelines regarding
pricing?

They want to know stuff like...

- What are typical up-front vs per-click charges?
- How does the weighting of ad display affect cost?
- How does page (home vs secondary) placement affect cost?

Any tips, pointers, or other resources would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Glenn



From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Mon Nov 18 12:50:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEENAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oprf2mldjrzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:19:25 -0000, Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
 wrote:

> can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?

Are you wanting to manage a mailing list only, or do you want software that
helps you create the newsletter as well?

If it's just managing a mailing list, Mailman is nice. For something that
handles creating the Newsletter at the same time, you could try MailWorks
Pro. It's not free, but it's very nice and relatively inexpensive.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From carole at pixeltable.com  Mon Nov 18 12:56:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
In-Reply-To: <oprf2mldjrzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIEFMFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi Andrew,

:> can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?

Though not free - we have recently develop a one way newsletter / list
management little soft. Which I'm beta running on netdiver right now. Kewl.
If interested - we're working on a demo site that should launch in the next
couple of weeks. Do let me know.

The interesting portion for web-dev - is that it will be available for
non-exlusive licensing. Meaning, as web shop you could resell to your
customers.
.c



From cparker at swatgear.com  Mon Nov 18 12:56:08 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Mon Nov 18 12:56:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE58@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

i am working on a simple intranet site right now and ie6 is doing a
weird thing (as expected?). i'm venturing into the world of tableless
design with this simple project and frankly i'm dissapointed so far.

maybe it's my own fault, or maybe it's just ie.

when i load the page in question, the main body <div> which encapsulates
a few other <div>'s is rendered about 25% of the height it should be. if
i switch to another window and cover up the page, it will be correctly
drawn. as well as if i scroll down, i will see the bottom of the content
box as if it had been drawn correctly.

(i'm going to do a diagram of the page because this site is internal. i
can of course provide code if need be.)

12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
+--------------------------------------------+
|                                            |
| +----------------------------------------+ |
| |   Here Is The Header                   | |
| +----------------------------------------+ |
|                                            |
| +-------+  +-----------------------------+ |
| |Here   |  | Here Is The Content Box In  | |
| |Is The |  | Question                    | |
| |Menu   |  +-----------------------------+ |
| +-------+    Here Is The Content Of The    |
|              Content Box In Question       |
|            |                             | |
|            | Here Is Some More Content   | |
|            | For The Content Box         | |
|            +-----------------------------+ |
+--------------------------------------------+

the page background is a medium blue, the boxes have a white background
with a medium-dark blue 5 pixel border.

mind you, the diagram i made is what the page looks like if i scroll
down to the bottom and back up again to the top. if i don't scroll at
all after the page loads (and on reload as well) i will only see what
appears to be a complete main body content box with content spilling out
of it.

any ideas off the top of your head?


thanks,
chris.


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Nov 18 13:12:01 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX, IIS 5 and Custom Errors
In-Reply-To: <003b01c28f25$24d07b80$6461a8c0@vader>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118104120.01911380@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118130034.01990ff8@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 11:08 AM 11/18/2002, Raymond Camden wrote:
>Ben - I'm not seeing this. Is this a multi-homed server? You may need to
>do the 'check that file exists' thing on each of the sites.

Well, whatever it was, it just started working when I reset the WWW
service.  I thought that I'd already done that, though.  I guess not.

--Ben

<tip type="Error Pages" author="Ben Dyer">
If you are setting up custom error pages in IIS for file types that are not
natively handled by IIS (ColdFusion, for instance), make sure that if you
want IIS to process the 404 errors, you tell IIS to check that file exists
for those file types.  To change this, go to Internet Information Services,
right-click on the WWW site and select properties, click on the "Home
Directory" tab, then the "Configuration" button, select the file type in
question, click "Edit" and then make sure the checkbox that says "Check
that File Exists" is checked.  *After restarting the service*, IIS will now
handle any 404 errors for that file type.
</tip>



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 13:17:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
In-Reply-To: <oprf2mldjrzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAENMEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Cheers Alex

Where can this be downloaded?  It runs on a windows platform, is that right?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Alex Ezell
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 18:50
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters


On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:19:25 -0000, Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
 wrote:

> can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?

Are you wanting to manage a mailing list only, or do you want software that
helps you create the newsletter as well?

If it's just managing a mailing list, Mailman is nice. For something that
handles creating the Newsletter at the same time, you could try MailWorks
Pro. It's not free, but it's very nice and relatively inexpensive.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 13:19:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
In-Reply-To: <LNBBKNMLCAODHACNPNLACEHIECAA.lists@thinkbigideas.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCENNEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I think mojo might not be allowed on my hosts server :(  I have tried everything
else wiithout success running from a local machine.  Postcast Server is limited
to sending 50 emails at a time even when running a php script with Mysql locally
:( so my solutions are starting to dry up.

I really didn't think it wuld be this dificult to send out 3-400 emails in one
hit.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baker
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 18:27
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters



Mojo Mail.

Absolutely love it. Mimics almost all of the functionality
found with apps like Topica, and can be completely customized
in every way possible. Handles small lists, large lists, has
batch sending options, etc.

http://mojo.skazat.com/


Cheers,

Anthony







| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
| Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:19 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
|
|
| can anyone recommend a decent freeware newsletter emailer?
|
| Andrew
ers of the Web, evolt !
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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---
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From rick at kitty5.com  Mon Nov 18 13:20:01 2002
From: rick at kitty5.com (Rick [Kitty5])
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE58@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <007501c28f37$33cafef0$0100a8c0@sigma>

Chris W. Parker wrote:
> hi.
>
> i am working on a simple intranet site right now and ie6 is doing a
> weird thing (as expected?). i'm venturing into the world of tableless
> design with this simple project and frankly i'm dissapointed so far.

post a URL, its so much simpler to help if we have some markup to play with
:)

Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.co.uk
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA



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From rick at kitty5.com  Mon Nov 18 13:20:06 2002
From: rick at kitty5.com (Rick [Kitty5])
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:20:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Querystring?
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEHKFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <007601c28f37$3435f5c0$0100a8c0@sigma>

.jeff wrote:
> yup, easy as pie.  check this out for an example of this:
>
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/ammend_links.cfm

Magic :)

Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.co.uk
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Mon Nov 18 13:28:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE58@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <oprf2obfyazwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:55:48 -0800, Chris W. Parker <cparker at swatgear.com> wrote:

> any ideas off the top of your head?

My first thought is that you might try putting this div after all the other
divs in your code:

<div style="clear:both;"></div>

It's a little IE quirk that seems to make this necessary. If that doesn't
work, you may have to post the code.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Mon Nov 18 13:33:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mailing list software newsletters
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAENMEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oprf2ojsqbzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:20:05 -0000, Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
 wrote:

> Where can this be downloaded?  It runs on a windows platform, is that
> right?

Mailman - http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html
Runs on *nix systems with most any webserver (I use Apache), but whatever
it is has to have Python support.
Manages lists easily. All HTML is configurable/modifiable. Fast.

MailWorks Pro - http://www.mailworkspro.com/ - $79.95
Linux - Apache - PHP and MySQL required.
Does one-way newsletters very nicely. All web-based after setup. Creation
of HTML newsletters is web-based as well.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From cparker at swatgear.com  Mon Nov 18 13:39:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E09D@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Ezell [mailto:taranis at spittingllamas.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
>

> My first thought is that you might try putting this div after
> all the other
> divs in your code:
>
> <div style="clear:both;"></div>

no luck.

here is the page code.
------------------------------------
<html>

<head>
<title>Aardvark Tactical Employee Homepage</title>

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="lib/top-left-center-right.css">

</head>

<body>

 <div id="header">
  <h1>Aardvark Tactical Employee Homepage</h1>
 </div>

 <div id="nav">
  <ul>
   <li><a href="javascript:;">Home</a></li>
   <li><a href="javascript:;">Red Book</a></li>
   <li><a href="javascript:;">Employee Directory</a></li>
   <li><a href="javascript:;">Sales Forms</a></li>
  </ul>
 </div>

<div id="content_container">

<!-- NOT NEEDED ON TOP? -->
 <div class="spacer">
  &nbsp;
 </div>


 <div id="content_GoogleSearch">
  <!-- Search Google -->
  <form method="GET" action="http://www.google.com/search">
   <a href="http://www.google.com/"><img
	src="http://www.google.com/logos/powered_by_google_135x35.gif"
	border="0"
	alt="powered by Google"
	align="absmiddle"></a>
   <input type="text" name="q" size="19" maxlength="255" value="">
   <input type="submit" value="Google Search">
  </form>
  <!-- Search Google -->
 </div>

 <div id="content_vendors">
  <h4>Vendors</h4>
  <ul>
   <li><a href="http://www.colt.com/">Colt</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.eagleindustries.com/">Eagle</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.eotech-inc.com/">EOTech</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.hatch-gloves.com/">Hatch</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.hoppes.com/">Hoppe's</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.leatherman.com/">Leatherman</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.policebatons.com/">Monadnock</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.peerless.net/">Peerless</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.pelican.com/">Pelican</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.redmangear.com/">Red Man</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.safariland.com/">Safariland</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.streamlight.com/">Streamlight</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.surefire.com/">SureFire</a></li>
   <li><a href="http://www.swatgear.com/">SWATGEAR.com</a></li>
  </ul>
 </div>

 <div id="content_serviceProviders">
  <h4>Service Providers</h4>
  <ul>
   <li><a href="http://www.ups.com/">UPS</a></li>
  </ul>
 </div>

 <div id="content_utilities">
  <h4>ATI Utilities</h4>
  <ul>
   <li><a href="http://ati-ex-01/hatchTrack.asp">Product
    Tracking Form</a></li>
  </ul>
 </div>

 <div class="spacer">
  &nbsp;
 </div>

</div>

<div style="clear:both;"></div>
</body>

</html>
--------------------------------------------


and here is the css (it's a little unrefined because i mean, i'm not an
expert or anything.)
--------------------------------------------
body {
	font-family: verdana, sans-serif;
	font-size: 100%;
	background: #44A8E9;
	}

/*div {
	border: 1px solid #00F;
	}*/

#header {
/*	position: absolute;
	left: 10px;
	top: 13px;*/
	margin: 2px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid #398CC3;
	background: #fff;
	height: 50px;
	}

#header h1 {
	font-family: verdana;
	font-size: 1em;
	font-weight: bold;
	color: #800000;
	margin: 0px;
	padding: 0px;
	}

#nav {
	position: absolute;
	left: 10px;
	margin: 2px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid #398CC3;
	background: #fff;
	width: 111px;
	}

#nav ul {
	font-size: 1em;
	margin: 0em;
	padding: 0em;
	}

div.spacer {
	clear: both;
	}

#content_container {
/*
				top		right	bottom	left
*/
	margin:	4px		2px		0px		118px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid #398CC3;
	background: #fff;
	}

#content_googleSearch {
/*	float: left;*/
	width: 100%;
	}

#content_vendors {
	float: left;
	width: 25%;
	}

#content_serviceProviders {
	float: left;
	width: 25%;
	}

#content_utilities {
	float: left;
	width: 50%;
	}

li {
	font-size: .8em;
	}

p {
	font-size: .8em;
	}

img {
	border: 0px none #000000;
	}

label {
	font-family: verdana;
	font-size: .8em;
	}
--------------------------------------

thanks for the help y'all.

chris.


From cparker at swatgear.com  Mon Nov 18 13:44:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E09F@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick [Kitty5] [mailto:rick at kitty5.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:00 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
>
>
> Chris W. Parker wrote:
> > hi.
> >
> > i am working on a simple intranet site right now and ie6 is doing a
> > weird thing (as expected?). i'm venturing into the world of
> tableless
> > design with this simple project and frankly i'm dissapointed so far.
>
> post a URL, its so much simpler to help if we have some
> markup to play with
> :)

oh geez. i sure as heck thought i mentioned that this was internal only.
can't reach it from the outside.

however, if my most recent post does not produce any fruit i will move
the pages to our external website so you can see it.


chris.


From dan at danromanchik.com  Mon Nov 18 13:52:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Mon Nov 18 13:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
References: <007c01c28f32$9e9ef6f0$eb97eac0@carr>
Message-ID: <004701c28f3b$efabc790$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

I've been reading about mailing list scripts on this list for quite a while
now. I've even downloaded several packages, including PHPList, VList Lite,
and at least one other, whose name escapes me. While these are all good
packages, they all suffer one big disadvantage. That is, they don't receive
e-mails. This limits their usefulness in a couple of ways:

   1. You can only use them for announcement-only mailing lists.
   2. They don't track delivery and returns.
   3. You can't use them for open mailing lists.

Instead, what I've been thinking of doing is building a front end to the
mailing list services run by Topica or SparkList. This would let me:

  - build subscribe/unsubscribe pages that look like the client's website,
  - write code that would let me manage paid subscription newsletters,
  - use the service's tools for subscriber management and delivery tracking,
  - use the services tools for ad management, and
  - offer open mailing lists that subscriber can use to communicate
    with one another as well as announcement type mailing lists.

It's not free to do things this way, but the price is pretty reasonable, I
think, for the extra functionality. On Topica, for example, if your volume
is under 10,000 e-mails per month, the cost is $225 for as many lists as you
care to set up (if you pay annually). If your volume is less than 25,000
e-mails per month, the cost is $405. If you're running a non-profit website
that may pinch a little, but if you're running a commercial website, that
cost is certainly not prohibitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't already a package out there that
does this, but I haven't yet found one. Does anyone know of something like
this or have other ideas to offer?

Thanks for your attention!

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 14:02:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <004701c28f3b$efabc790$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Dan there are loads of newsletter scripts that you can sub unsub.  I will dig
out a couple of links...

I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98 box if anyone has
found one :)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dan Romanchik
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 19:52
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack


I've been reading about mailing list scripts on this list for quite a while
now. I've even downloaded several packages, including PHPList, VList Lite,
and at least one other, whose name escapes me. While these are all good
packages, they all suffer one big disadvantage. That is, they don't receive
e-mails. This limits their usefulness in a couple of ways:

   1. You can only use them for announcement-only mailing lists.
   2. They don't track delivery and returns.
   3. You can't use them for open mailing lists.

Instead, what I've been thinking of doing is building a front end to the
mailing list services run by Topica or SparkList. This would let me:

  - build subscribe/unsubscribe pages that look like the client's website,
  - write code that would let me manage paid subscription newsletters,
  - use the service's tools for subscriber management and delivery tracking,
  - use the services tools for ad management, and
  - offer open mailing lists that subscriber can use to communicate
    with one another as well as announcement type mailing lists.

It's not free to do things this way, but the price is pretty reasonable, I
think, for the extra functionality. On Topica, for example, if your volume
is under 10,000 e-mails per month, the cost is $225 for as many lists as you
care to set up (if you pay annually). If your volume is less than 25,000
e-mails per month, the cost is $405. If you're running a non-profit website
that may pinch a little, but if you're running a commercial website, that
cost is certainly not prohibitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't already a package out there that
does this, but I haven't yet found one. Does anyone know of something like
this or have other ideas to offer?

Thanks for your attention!

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 14:17:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOBEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

this one was groovy,
http://www.triangle-solutions.com/
But I could get the thing to work locally :( with postcast server! We did try
though didn't we Tony ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 20:06
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack


Dan there are loads of newsletter scripts that you can sub unsub.  I will dig
out a couple of links...

I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98 box if anyone has
found one :)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dan Romanchik
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 19:52
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack


I've been reading about mailing list scripts on this list for quite a while
now. I've even downloaded several packages, including PHPList, VList Lite,
and at least one other, whose name escapes me. While these are all good
packages, they all suffer one big disadvantage. That is, they don't receive
e-mails. This limits their usefulness in a couple of ways:

   1. You can only use them for announcement-only mailing lists.
   2. They don't track delivery and returns.
   3. You can't use them for open mailing lists.

Instead, what I've been thinking of doing is building a front end to the
mailing list services run by Topica or SparkList. This would let me:

  - build subscribe/unsubscribe pages that look like the client's website,
  - write code that would let me manage paid subscription newsletters,
  - use the service's tools for subscriber management and delivery tracking,
  - use the services tools for ad management, and
  - offer open mailing lists that subscriber can use to communicate
    with one another as well as announcement type mailing lists.

It's not free to do things this way, but the price is pretty reasonable, I
think, for the extra functionality. On Topica, for example, if your volume
is under 10,000 e-mails per month, the cost is $225 for as many lists as you
care to set up (if you pay annually). If your volume is less than 25,000
e-mails per month, the cost is $405. If you're running a non-profit website
that may pinch a little, but if you're running a commercial website, that
cost is certainly not prohibitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't already a package out there that
does this, but I haven't yet found one. Does anyone know of something like
this or have other ideas to offer?

Thanks for your attention!

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
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From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Mon Nov 18 14:17:09 2002
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:17:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE58@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <000801c28f3f$54ac6110$5a04810a@maegreatha>

> maybe it's my own fault, or maybe it's just ie.

Sounds like this one is IE.

> when i load the page in question, the main body <div> which
> encapsulates a few other <div>'s is rendered about 25% of
> the height it should be. If i switch to another window and
> cover up the page, it will be correctly drawn. as well as
> if i scroll down, i will see the bottom of the content box
> as if it had been drawn correctly.

This sounds like the same issue that AListApart ran into -- their
content block was getting chopped off in IE6 on the initial load.

Try adding this code to your <head>: (wrap alert!)

-------------------------------------------
if (document.all && window.attachEvent) {
  window.attachEvent("onload", fixWinIE); }

function fixWinIE() {
        if (document.body.scrollHeight <
document.all.content.offsetHeight) {
                document.all.content.style.display = 'block'; }
}
-------------------------------------------

This was suggested by Aaron Boodman of youngpup.net, and can be found on
Zeldman's site here:
<http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0802d.html#csslayoutrevisited>

So sayeth the Zeldman:

  "Aaron Boodman wrote a tiny JavaScript function
   that, in the presence of IE/Windows, iterates
   an existing property of the content block, causing
   the page to reflow and display correctly. We've
   added Aaron's script to ALA's primary, global
   JavaScript file, and the site now seems to work
   correctly in Microsoft's flagship Windows browser.
   We also reported Eddie and Aaron's findings to
   Microsoft to help that company fix its browser
   bug in a future upgrade. "

Let us know if that works for you!

HTH!
--ken



From persist1 at io.com  Mon Nov 18 14:23:00 2002
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:23:00 2002
Subject: Why 800x600 was RE: [thelist] What shall we do with the W3C DOM -
 part 2
In-Reply-To: <000801c28f17$657aed90$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211181412390.28861-100000@fnord.io.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Kyle Murphy wrote:

> Try setting your resolution above 800x600.....do people still use
> 800x600...and, if so, why?

Bearing in mind that this was originally asked as a rhetorical question,
but has since been jumped upon by some very smart people...

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for someone to show up on one of these lists who's
a serious cheeleader for lower resolutions.

For myself... I'm one of the multiple window users that Carole describes.
My "main" window as a rule is resized (bookmarklet) to 848x960; I run
1280x1024x24 'cause I'm running old hardware on an integrated mobo (which
makes for one of the most stable systems I've ever used, which in turn is
why I put up with it).

...And I'm one of those people who will drop into 1280x1024 on a 17in/43cm
CRT without flinching (though I tend to sit much closer to the display in
that environment).

Why?

Because I've been using computers long enough to know what happens to
one's efficiency when they have more display area to work with.   This is
no less true for programming than design or content tasks, IMO.

Browsing fullscreen or anything close to it, defeats the purpose for which
I once put myself into hock for my 19" display, and why a 23" display and
new video card are definitely on my wish list.

Meanwhile...

The decline of optical acuity experienced by folks as they get older,
cannot be understated.  Ask any optician or opthalmologist; they'll
doubtless be able to launch into details that would surprise you.

In fact... could anyone's opthalmologist be encouraged to help develop an
article for the site?   (I don't have one, else I'd see what I could do.)


--
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Associate Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From cparker at swatgear.com  Mon Nov 18 14:31:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE5A@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Kogler [mailto:ken.kogler at curf.edu]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:16 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS: rendering problem
>
>

> Try adding this code to your <head>: (wrap alert!)
>
> -------------------------------------------
> if (document.all && window.attachEvent) {
>   window.attachEvent("onload", fixWinIE); }
>
> function fixWinIE() {
>         if (document.body.scrollHeight <
> document.all.content.offsetHeight) {
>                 document.all.content.style.display = 'block'; }
> }
> -------------------------------------------

gives me an error: "'document.all.content.offsetHeight' is null or not
an object"

this is what i've got in the <head>.

---------------------------
<script type="text/javascript">
<!--
if (document.all && window.attachEvent)
	{
	window.attachEvent("onload", fixWinIE);
	}

function fixWinIE()
	{
	if (document.body.scrollHeight <
document.all.content.offsetHeight)
		{
		document.all.content.style.display = 'block';
		}
	}
-->
</script>
---------------------------

i should note that this happens each time i press refresh, not just the
initial load. highlighting overflowed text will cause the page behind
the highlighted area to be drawn correctly.


chris.


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Mon Nov 18 14:53:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Mon Nov 18 14:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Double login to a Secure Intranet Problem [Resolved
	]
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E446D@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi list,

Once again, I have found a solution to my own problem. I'm posting the
answer solely because there doesn't exist any documentation regarding this
issue anywhere! (not even in M$) I was mislead into thinking that all our
users had to login twice. That's not the case. Only one person made the
accusation of all, when he alone had to do it, not everyone.

Anywho , the only reason why you'd get the login screen again, is if any
information (account, password, domain) was not right. Well this just
happened to be the case. This user had cached the incorrect password and
clicked "Save my password" checkbox. Thus, causing him to have to login
twice each time.

In a test to prove my theory, I had him retype his password before going to
the second login screen and he went straight into the extranet. wow ...
amazing isn't it. Yet another entry into the "Hall of Shame - IT Division"

Rob.Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Smith [mailto:rob.smith at THERMON.com]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:46 AM
To: Thelist (E-mail)
Subject: [thelist] Double login to a Secure Intranet Problem


Hi List,

About a half a year ago our company released a secure extranet to all our
employees world wide, which would provide a dynamic information vehicle to
special groups. The only encryption used is Windows NT/Challenge Response.
The site is running on a Win NT box, IIS 4.0. The clients are supposed to be
using IE 5.1 or greater and nothing else.

When our users "logon" to the extranet, they're prompted to enter their NT
account info: username, password, and domain. If the users click, remember
my password, and click ok (to log on), they are prompted with a second
password box, and have to reenter their NT account info. How can I avoid the
second login?

Additional info: The powers that be absolutely refuse to configure each
users browser security settings. They absolutely refuse to pay the presumed
5-digit payment to authenticate to Verisign or whomever controls the
verified authentication stuff to make us an official "Trusted Site." In
addition to the "Trusted site" issue, we're getting the expected security
warnings upon opening docs such as *.doc, *.xls, etc. This is starting to
get on their nerves.

Thanks guys/gals/(other?),

Rob.Smith
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jpaul at jpauldesign.com  Mon Nov 18 15:09:01 2002
From: jpaul at jpauldesign.com (J Paul Armstrong)
Date: Mon Nov 18 15:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
Message-ID: <B9FEC0FE.30B5%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>

Page Numbering in MySQL results pages (used for a small book catalog search)
:
I have a query string that selects based on the search the user does; which
works. When I've implemented the page/limit results, when you click on any
of the page numbers, the query string stops working. Here is the query ...

{
$query="select * from book_catalog where last like '%".$searchterm."%' or
first like '%".$searchterm."%' or title like '%".$searchterm."%' or genre
like '%".$searchterm."%' order by last";
}


else
{
$query="select * from book_catalog where ".$searchtype." like
'%".$searchterm."%' order by last";
}

$result = mysql_query($query);
$num_results = mysql_num_rows($result);


All the results come up fine, based on the code provided, the first time you
search and get results. But when you click on any of the page numbers, the
query seems not to work anymore - where the keyword field is blank, it
doesn't seem to understand that anymore (where it does the first time you
search). I get errors. Here's the link to try it out ...


http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/searchtest.php



Thanks for the help in advance.


++ jpaul design  |  simplify
        [ www.jpauldesign.com ]

        ++ 513.531.4849
           204.209.0219

        ++ 3763 mt vernon ave
           cincinnati, oh
           45209



From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Mon Nov 18 15:20:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Mon Nov 18 15:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
References: <B9FEC0FE.30B5%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>
Message-ID: <oprf2tjigzzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:08:30 -0500, J Paul Armstrong <jpaul at jpauldesign.com>
 wrote:

> Page Numbering in MySQL results pages (used for a small book catalog
> search)
> :
> I have a query string that selects based on the search the user does;
> which
> works. When I've implemented the page/limit results, when you click on
> any
> of the page numbers, the query string stops working.

Do you mean the limiting of results per page or the paging of the result
set?

The page numbers at the bottom of the results don't seem to be links for
me.

Anyway, I noticed that the links for #results for page carry the query in
the URL. However, the search term is not included. That's the first thing I
would check out.

It's a little hard without seeing the PHP, but that's what I would try.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From jbauer at chimesnet.com  Mon Nov 18 15:26:01 2002
From: jbauer at chimesnet.com (Jason Bauer)
Date: Mon Nov 18 15:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
In-Reply-To: <B9FEC0FE.30B5%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>
Message-ID: <FJEDJFDNEOBNOEFPHNOKIEBJCCAA.jbauer@chimesnet.com>

> ----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of J Paul Armstrong
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:09 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
>
> All the results come up fine, based on the code provided, the first time
you
> search and get results. But when you click on any of the page numbers, the
> query seems not to work anymore - where the keyword field is blank, it
> doesn't seem to understand that anymore (where it does the first time you
> search). I get errors. Here's the link to try it out ...

> http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/searchtest.php

The problem is that the link to the "Next Page" isn't sending the same data
as the original search form.

Your original search form is sending a $searchtype and a $searchterm. But,
if you'll look at the link after you click on the Next Page, it isn't
sending either of those values, only a query.

Based on the snippet of code you gave, your else clause is overwriting the
query sent from the page. So, instead of simply an else in that statement,
do an:

elseif($searchterm)
{
   $query = "blahblah";
}

This will only overwrite the $query if a search term is specified from your
original search form. This should let the query sent by the "Next" link go
through unhindered.

Hope this helps!

---
Jason Bauer
jbauer at chimesnet.com
Programmer/Analyst
Chimes, Inc.






From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Nov 18 15:39:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Nov 18 15:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
References: <B9FEC0FE.30B5%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>
Message-ID: <3DD95F95.1030504@macrovista.net>

J Paul Armstrong wrote:
> I have a query string that selects based on the search the user does; which
> works. When I've implemented the page/limit results, when you click on any
> of the page numbers, the query string stops working. Here is the query ...

Consider changing the way your paging works. I used 'barn' as my search
string for all fields. When I click on '10' results per page it uses the
url of (watch wrap, and I converted %20s to spaces):

http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/resulttest.php?query=select *
from book_catalog where last like '%barn%' or first like '%barn%' or
title like '%barn%' or genre like '%barn%' order by last&pageno=0&limit=10

It seems to me to be a very bad idea to pass a query in the url.  For
example: if you execute a query that was passed in the url, there is
nothing to keep me from changing this url to (watch wrap, and I
converted %20s to spaces)
http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/resulttest.php?query=drop
book_catalog ...and you probably don't want me doing that.


My recommendation would be to change the selection method for results
per page to be a <select> object from those links.  This should allow
you to give users the option of selecting a number of results in
searchtest.php as well as in resulttest.php and searchterm searchtype
and searchlimit will all be easily available to you.

--Steve



From jpaul at jpauldesign.com  Mon Nov 18 15:51:01 2002
From: jpaul at jpauldesign.com (J Paul Armstrong)
Date: Mon Nov 18 15:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
In-Reply-To: <3DD95F95.1030504@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <B9FECABB.30BE%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>

I didn't create the multiple page results code, but got it from evolt.org.
You can see the code here :

http://evolt.org/article/Multiple_Pages_With_PHP/17/19340/index.html

I'm not sure what you're saying exactly, although I do understand the
dilemma of passing the query through my link; but I'm not sure of how to do
it another (since I didn't create this originally). All I saw was a $query
variable which wasn't defined in the original code, so I did what you see.
What ought the $query value/variable be so that the $query in the page link
works AND doesn't show the db query string?


Here's my complete PHP results page, this is long, so I apologize (and I
just edited some of what was already done, but I'm sure there's stuff wrong,
I'm not a PHP expert)...

<form action="resulttest.php" method="post">
<table class="eventContent" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="360">
<tr>
    <td class="eventContent"><b>Search For:</b><br>
        <select name="searchtype">
        <option value="all">Select</option>
        <option value="last">Last Name</option>
        <option value="first">First Name</option>
        <option value="title">Title</option>
        <option value="all">Search All</option>
        </select></td>
    <td align="left" valign="top" width="15"><img src="../images/spacer.gif"
width="15" height="15"></td>
    <td class="eventContent"><b>Keywords (optional):</b><br><input
name="searchterm" type="text"></td>
    <td><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;<input type="submit" name="Search"
value="Search"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
    <td colspan="3"><hr align="left" noshade size="1" width="100%"></td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>
<?
$searchtype = addslashes($searchtype);
$searchterm = addslashes($searchterm);

$db_host ="localhost";
$db_name ="mercantilelibrary_com";
$db_pass ="pass";
$db_usr ="user";

@$db = mysql_connect($db_host, $db_usr, $db_pass);

if (!$db)
{
echo "<span class=\"searchHead\">Error : Could not connect to the database.
Please try again later.";
exit;
}

mysql_select_db("mercantilelibrary_com");

if (!($limit))
{
$limit = 10;
}

if (!($pageno))
{
$pageno = 0;
}

if ($searchtype=="all")
{
$query="select * from book_catalog where last like '%".$searchterm."%' or
first like '%".$searchterm."%' or title like '%".$searchterm."%' or genre
like '%".$searchterm."%' order by last";
}

else
{
$query="select * from book_catalog where ".$searchtype." like
'%".$searchterm."%' order by last";
}

$result = mysql_query($query);
$num_results = mysql_num_rows($result);

if (!$result)
{
echo mysql_error();
exit;
}

if ($num_results==0)
{
echo "<span class=\"searchHead\">There are no matching results for your
search. Please try again.";
}

else {

echo "<span class=\"searchHead\">There are <b>".$num_results."</b> match(es)
to your search.<br><br>";
}

$pages = intval($num_results/$limit);


if ($num_results%$limit)
{
$pages++;
}

$current = ($pageno/$limit) + 1;

if (($pages < 1) || ($pages == 0))
{
$total = 1;
}

else
{
$total = $pages;
}

$firstpage = $pageno + 1;

if (!((($pageno + $limit) / $limit) >= $pages) && $pages != 1)
{
$lastpage = $pageno + $limit;
}

else
{
$lastpage = $num_results;
}
?>
<table width="360" border="0">
<tr>
<td class="searchHead" align="left">Results<b><?=$firstpage?></b> -
<b><?=$lastpage?></b> of <b><?=$num_results?></b></td>
<td class="searchHead" align="right">Page <b><?=$current?></b> of
<b><?=$total?></b></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="searchHead" colspan="2" align="right">Results per-page: <a
href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=5">5</a> |
<a
href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=10">10</a>
| <a
href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=20">20</a>
| <a
href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=50">50</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<?

$results = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM book_catalog WHERE ".$searchtype."
LIKE '%".$searchterm."%' ORDER BY last ASC LIMIT $pageno, $limit");

while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($results))
{

echo "<table cellspacing=\"1\" cellpadding=\"5\" border=\"0\"
width=\"320\">\n";
echo "<tr>\n";
echo "<td class=\"eventDes\" bgcolor=\"#D2CEB8\" width=\"250\">";
echo "<img src=\"images/spacer.gif\" width=250 height=1 border=0><br>";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["title"]));
echo "</td>\n";
echo "<td class=\"eventDes\" bgcolor=\"#D2CEB8\" width=\"70\">";
echo "<img src=\"images/spacer.gif\" width=70 height=1 border=0><br>";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["genre"]));
echo "</td>\n";
echo "<td class=\"text\" bgcolor=\"#eeeeee\" width=\"320\" rowspan=\"2\">";
echo "<a href=editbooks.php?field=";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["aid"]));
echo " target=control>Edit</a>";
echo "</td>\n";
echo "</tr>\n";
echo "<tr>\n";
echo "<td class=\"eventContent\" bgcolor=\"#C3C3B3\" width=\"320\"
colspan=\"2\">";
echo "<img src=\"images/spacer.gif\" width=320 height=1 border=0><br>by ";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["first"]));
echo " ";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["last"]));
echo "&nbsp;&nbsp;<i>&copy; ";
echo htmlspecialchars(stripslashes($row["date"]));
echo "</i>";
echo "</td>\n";
echo "</tr>\n";
echo "</table>\n";
echo "<table width=\"320\" height=\"1\" border=\"0\">";
echo "<tr height=\"1\">\n";
echo "<td height=\"1\"><img src=\"../images/spacer.gif\" width=\"360\"
height=\"1\" border=\"0\"><br></td>\n";
echo "</tr>\n";
echo "</table>\n";
}
?>
<p align="left">
<?
if ($pageno != 0)
{
$back_page = $pageno - $limit;
echo "<span class=searchHead";
echo"<a
href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$back_pageno&limit=$limit\">back</a>\n"
;
}

for ($i=1; $i <= $pages; $i++)
{
    $ppage = $limit*($i - 1);
    if ($ppage == $pageno)
    {
        echo "<span class=searchHead";
        echo "<b>$i</b> \n";
    }
    else
    {
        echo "<span class=searchHead";
        echo "<a
href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$ppage&limit=$limit\">$i</a> \n";
    }
}

if (!((($pageno+$limit) / $limit) >= $pages) && $pages != 1)
{
$next_page = $pageno + $limit;
echo "<span class=searchHead";
echo" <a
href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$next_page&limit=$limit\">next</a>\n";
}

?>





> J Paul Armstrong wrote:
>> I have a query string that selects based on the search the user does; which
>> works. When I've implemented the page/limit results, when you click on any
>> of the page numbers, the query string stops working. Here is the query ...
>
> Consider changing the way your paging works. I used 'barn' as my search
> string for all fields. When I click on '10' results per page it uses the
> url of (watch wrap, and I converted %20s to spaces):
>
> http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/resulttest.php?query=select *
> from book_catalog where last like '%barn%' or first like '%barn%' or
> title like '%barn%' or genre like '%barn%' order by last&pageno=0&limit=10
>
> It seems to me to be a very bad idea to pass a query in the url.  For
> example: if you execute a query that was passed in the url, there is
> nothing to keep me from changing this url to (watch wrap, and I
> converted %20s to spaces)
> http://www.mercantilelibrary.com/catalog/resulttest.php?query=drop
> book_catalog ...and you probably don't want me doing that.
>
>
> My recommendation would be to change the selection method for results
> per page to be a <select> object from those links.  This should allow
> you to give users the option of selecting a number of results in
> searchtest.php as well as in resulttest.php and searchterm searchtype
> and searchlimit will all be easily available to you.
>
> --Steve




++ jpaul design  |  simplify
        [ www.jpauldesign.com ]

        ++ 513.531.4849
           204.209.0219

        ++ 3763 mt vernon ave
           cincinnati, oh
           45209



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 16:06:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
Message-ID: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm building an application that is going to reuse a fair amount of
code. I'm wondering if a) its bad form to have an include within an
include, and b) if I should be using an include for the get item as I
am doing below - see code:
-------
$result = @mysql_query("SELECT * FROM menuitem WHERE menuitemID =
'$id'");
if(!$result)
{
  echo(include('includes/db_error.php'));
  exit();
}
 $row = mysql_fetch_array($result);
 $item =          $row['item'];
 $description =   $row['description'];
 $price =         $row['price'];
 $categoryID =    $row['categoryID'];
--------
I want to make this whole code block an include, because there will
be several pages where I pull the menu item. Does this make sense?,
and see the nested include...

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From davidu at everydns.net  Mon Nov 18 16:14:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c28f4f$d13b54b0$2532fc80@pravda>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> I'm building an application that is going to reuse a fair amount of
> code. I'm wondering if a) its bad form to have an include within an
> include, and b) if I should be using an include for the get item as I
> am doing below - see code:

Two words; objects and classes. (see below)

> I want to make this whole code block an include, because there will
> be several pages where I pull the menu item. Does this make sense?,
> and see the nested include...

Try using a different paradigm; objects and classes.  For example, you could
do:

In your page:
list($item, $description, $price, $category) = $database->getMenuItem($id);

And then in your databaseObject class you have some method called
getMenuItem which does something like this:

function getMenuItem($id) {
    $result = $this->_db->getRow('Select * from menuitem where menuitemID =
' . $id, DB_FETCHMODE_ASSOC);
    if ($this->_db->isError($result) {
        die("Bork! There is no MenuItemID $id");
    }
    return $result;
}

Using Pear::DB and some simple helper classes can help you write clean,
reusable, flexible code.

-davidu




From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Mon Nov 18 16:16:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <oprf2v38qozwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:05:26 -0800 (PST), Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
 wrote:

> I want to make this whole code block an include, because there will
> be several pages where I pull the menu item. Does this make sense?,
> and see the nested include...

Well, some of the concepts are relatively new to me(at least in PHP), but I
think this is where a class might come in handy.

Here are a couple of articles that have helped me -> http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/rod19990601.php3
http://www.zorka.com/index.php/phptutorial/main/event=lesson/classes

/alex

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
 you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From evolt at marsorange.com  Mon Nov 18 16:30:00 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41329ECA-FB45-11D6-AC08-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Monday, Nov 18, 2002, at 16:05 US/Central, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> I'm wondering if a) its bad form to have an include within an
> include, and b) if I should be using an include for the get item as I
> am doing below - see code:

If you decide to stick with includes (instead of moving to a class
structure like the other's recommend), then make sure you use
"require_once" instead of "require".

Nesting includes within includes using "requires" can cause nasty
"redefinition of function" errors when files get included more than
once -- using "require_once" prevents those errors, because PHP will
only include each file once (duh!)

Although, I whole-heartedly support the use of classes as recommended
by others. Since I started using them, my code has become much faster
to write, debug, more readable and more reusable!

Mars :)



From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Nov 18 16:36:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] My Query string not getting results in pages
References: <B9FECABB.30BE%jpaul@jpauldesign.com>
Message-ID: <3DD96D07.4000905@macrovista.net>

J Paul Armstrong wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're saying exactly, although I do understand the
> dilemma of passing the query through my link; but I'm not sure of how to do

unfortunately, this page seems to require a significant rewrite that I
cannot invest in right now but here are some hints... a moderate
understanding of php may help you understand what I am trying to do.

> <form action="resulttest.php" method="post">
I recommend a method="get" for search pages.

> <table class="eventContent" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="360">
> <tr>
>     <td class="eventContent"><b>Search For:</b><br>
>         <select name="searchtype">
>         <option value="all">Select</option>
>         <option value="last">Last Name</option>
>         <option value="first">First Name</option>
>         <option value="title">Title</option>
>         <option value="all">Search All</option>
>         </select></td>
>     <td align="left" valign="top" width="15"><img src="../images/spacer.gif"
> width="15" height="15"></td>
>     <td class="eventContent"><b>Keywords (optional):</b><br><input
> name="searchterm" type="text"></td>

insert here ...

<td class="eventContent"><b>Results per page:</b><br>
<select name="limit">
<option value="5">5</option>
<option value="10" selected>10</option>
<option value="15">15</option>
<option value="20">20</option>
</select></td>

... or something to that effect.  There is nothing special here, its all
just html.  It replaces the links that appear on your page now, which I
have marked below for elimination

> $current = ($pageno/$limit) + 1;


eliminate this block of code.  it is bad, as is passes the query in the URL.
> <tr>
> <td class="searchHead" colspan="2" align="right">Results per-page: <a
> href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=5">5</a> |
> <a
> href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=10">10</a>
> | <a
> href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=20">20</a>
> | <a
> href="<?=$PHP_SELF?>?query=<?=$query?>&pageno=<?=$pageno?>&limit=50">50</a>
> </td>
> </tr>

> echo"<a
> href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$back_pageno&limit=$limit\">back</a>\n"
modify this to pass the searchtype and searchterm instead of passing the
query ... something like

?searchtype=$searchtype&searchterm=$searchterm&pageno=$back_pageno&limit=$limit

should do the trick.  this removes the query from the url, but still
passes the 'pageno' that is desired.

> href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$ppage&limit=$limit\">$i</a> \n";
Same sort of thing here...

> href=\"$PHP_SELF?query=$query&pageno=$next_page&limit=$limit\">next</a>\n";
and here.

--Steve



From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Nov 18 16:41:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Nov 18 16:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <004001c28f4f$d13b54b0$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <3DD96E3A.70404@macrovista.net>

David U. wrote:
> Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>
>>I'm building an application that is going to reuse a fair amount of
>>code. I'm wondering if a) its bad form to have an include within an
>>include, and b) if I should be using an include for the get item as I
>>am doing below - see code:
>
>
> Two words; objects and classes. (see below)

IMHO: Don't believe the hype.  OO in PHP, is not 'there' yet and I would
advocate using functional programing techniques.  Nested includes work,
but so do functions.

This could be the topic of a religious war; I won't bother defending my
opinion in the hopes of sparing the list of unneccessary traffic.

--Steve



From davidu at everydns.net  Mon Nov 18 17:01:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Mon Nov 18 17:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <004001c28f4f$d13b54b0$2532fc80@pravda> <3DD96E3A.70404@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <001f01c28f56$5139d820$2532fc80@pravda>

Steve Lewis wrote:
>> Two words; objects and classes. (see below)
>
> IMHO: Don't believe the hype.  OO in PHP, is not 'there' yet and I
> would advocate using functional programming techniques.  Nested
> includes work, but so do functions.

You're kind of right.  I specifically didn't mention the words "object
oriented" in my post.  PHP does not *yet* have a way to create totally OO
code.  Things like private variables, scope, etc are not yet functional.  It
does have inheritance and lots of other goodies though which make it almost
a pleasure to work with -- certainly better than writing large applications
of monolithic code. (been there done that)  Additionally, almost all of the
benefits of code reuse and flexibility are there right now; TODAY.

Sure, includes work, but they can sure cause lots of problems, I'd recommend
that Tom, should he choose to go that direction, read carefully the pages on
php.net/include and php.net/include_once.  They all have their uses and
their places.

> This could be the topic of a religious war; I won't bother defending
> my opinion in the hopes of sparing the list of unnecessary traffic.

Clearly you mean an "emacs vs. vi" war -- religious wars are so pass?. :-)

-davidu




From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Mon Nov 18 17:22:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Mon Nov 18 17:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] For the love of whatever god you hold holy, strip the friggin
 messages
In-Reply-To: <20021118220026.562B23A2F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021118181532.00a66f78@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

This is pathetic.  I would expect something like this to come to me via my
sister-in-law who has little to no internet experience but from someone
that sells their skills on the open market???  It takes less than a minute
to trim a message to only the relevant parts.  Please do this; it makes
everyone's life more enjoyable.

At 04:00 PM 11/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Message: 24
>From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
>Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:20:26 -0000
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
>this one was groovy,
>http://www.triangle-solutions.com/
>But I could get the thing to work locally :( with postcast server! We did try
>though didn't we Tony ;)
>
>Andrew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
>Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 20:06
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
>
>
>Dan there are loads of newsletter scripts that you can sub unsub.  I will dig
>out a couple of links...
>
>I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98 box if
>anyone has
>found one :)
>
>Andrew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dan Romanchik
>Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 19:52
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
>
>
>I've been reading about mailing list scripts on this list for quite a while
>now. I've even downloaded several packages, including PHPList, VList Lite,
>and at least one other, whose name escapes me. While these are all good
>packages, they all suffer one big disadvantage. That is, they don't receive
>e-mails. This limits their usefulness in a couple of ways:
>
>    1. You can only use them for announcement-only mailing lists.
>    2. They don't track delivery and returns.
>    3. You can't use them for open mailing lists.
>
>Instead, what I've been thinking of doing is building a front end to the
>mailing list services run by Topica or SparkList. This would let me:
>
>   - build subscribe/unsubscribe pages that look like the client's website,
>   - write code that would let me manage paid subscription newsletters,
>   - use the service's tools for subscriber management and delivery tracking,
>   - use the services tools for ad management, and
>   - offer open mailing lists that subscriber can use to communicate
>     with one another as well as announcement type mailing lists.
>
>It's not free to do things this way, but the price is pretty reasonable, I
>think, for the extra functionality. On Topica, for example, if your volume
>is under 10,000 e-mails per month, the cost is $225 for as many lists as you
>care to set up (if you pay annually). If your volume is less than 25,000
>e-mails per month, the cost is $405. If you're running a non-profit website
>that may pinch a little, but if you're running a commercial website, that
>cost is certainly not prohibitive.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't already a package out there that
>does this, but I haven't yet found one. Does anyone know of something like
>this or have other ideas to offer?
>
>Thanks for your attention!
>
>Dan
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
>dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564
>
>
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002
>
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 17:28:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 17:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <004001c28f4f$d13b54b0$2532fc80@pravda> <3DD96E3A.70404@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <002c01c28f5a$1d420610$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> > Two words; objects and classes. (see below)
>
> IMHO: Don't believe the hype.
>
> This could be the topic of a religious war; I won't bother defending my
> opinion in the hopes of sparing the list of unneccessary traffic.

could somebody please explain (offlist is okay, because obviously i'm slow)

how is an object different from an include?

i fully grok server side includes, i'm intimate with coldfusion's
cfinclude...

the source code gets inserted/interpreted/executed at the spot of inclusion?

what makes objects so special?


rudy
stupid old man
(no, i shall not do this every time like elfur)



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 17:55:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 17:55:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c28f5d$d925aa50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> $result = @mysql_query("SELECT * FROM menuitem WHERE menuitemID =
> '$id'");
> if(!$result)
> {
>   echo(include('includes/db_error.php'));
>   exit();
> }
>  $row = mysql_fetch_array($result);
>  $item =          $row['item'];
>  $description =   $row['description'];
>  $price =         $row['price'];
>  $categoryID =    $row['categoryID'];


tom, i do exactly the same, only in coldfusion

my include would look like this

<cfquery name="menuitems" datasource="#dsrc#">
select  iwould, listdesired, columnshere
     , insteadof, selectstar
  from menuitem
 where menuitemID = #id#
</cfquery>

you're absolutely right that "there will be several pages where I pull the
menu item"

on my site, every page has a menu (except for old pages like aunt netty)

and i pull not just one menu item, but all of them

in my estimation, the results of my menu query should really hang around
for a while, which is how exactly how query results caching works --
coldfusion doesn't go back to the database, it just uses the query results
it got the last time, provided it's within a certain timespan

best example for this is state codes -- why would you want to query the
database more often than, say, daily?  if a new state code has to be added,
the very latest your site will reflect that change is tomorrow (and i
daresay you will have have many days' notice, eh)

menu items to me are the same -- if i want to change the structure of my
site's menu, it won't show up for an hour, but in the meantime, my
performance is better because the server doesn't call the database...

... and this from a database guy!

also, in coldfusion, this caching is built in, all i have to do is add

   cachedwithin="#CreateTimeSpan(0,1,0,0)#"

to the cfquery tag above

finally, the cfquery tag is brought in to every page with

  <cfinclude template="menuitems.txt">

where i give the file name the same name as the query name used in the
cfquery tag

cfml (coldfusion markup language) is so like xhtml, it makes me shiver

rudy




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon Nov 18 17:59:00 2002
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon Nov 18 17:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
Message-ID: <6F30E1D6-FB51-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>

> could somebody please explain (offlist is okay, because obviously i'm
> slow)
>
> how is an object different from an include?
>

ooh, ooh, this is always explained by analogy, so can i have a go?
please?

includes, as you know, are a file system level control of what goes
where. objects and classes -- a different way of programming --

let's say we have a class called 'cocktail', and we have another class
called 'martini' -- the martini class says 'i am a cocktail, but a bit
more specific'. so the martini class extends the cocktail. the martini
then inherits stuff from the cocktail, and changes details here and
there.

now, say we want to build a martini, that's when we make an object. the
class is like a factory (the martini recipe, sort of), the object is
the thing (the thing you drink).

each object (and class) has its own variables, and methods (functions,
whatever...). and they can override each other. so -- the cocktail
class can have any sort of potable / edible ingredients as long as
there's more than one alcoholic thing in it (otherwise it's a
'mixedDrink' class), but the martini class can only have gin, vermouth,
and either a twist of lime or an olive. the cocktail class might have a
'shake()' method, but the martini class would override that and make it
an alias to the 'stir()' method (or, generate an error).


>>> Two words; objects and classes. (see below)
>>
>> IMHO: Don't believe the hype.
>>

it always confuses the crap out of me in the php context, and on so
many levels. so:

>
> This could be the topic of a religious war; I won't bother defending my
> opinion in the hopes of sparing the list of unneccessary traffic.

roger that.

cheers
andrew



From john at userfrenzy.com  Mon Nov 18 18:08:00 2002
From: john at userfrenzy.com (John Handelaar)
Date: Mon Nov 18 18:08:00 2002
Subject: OT: was Re: [thelist] For the love of ...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021118181532.00a66f78@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021118181532.00a66f78@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1037664172.12554.5.camel@fidel>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 23:17, Benjamin wrote:
> This is pathetic.

Easy, tiger.

While yes, while trimming your posts is *absolutely*
the thing to do,

a)  There's no need for abuse, and moreover

b)  Committing the exact same offence yourself does
    slightly take the sting out of your point.

Play nice, please, folks...  a tip or two wouldn't
go amiss here either.

<tip type="Zope">

People familiar with the Python language will know
all about the Vaults of Parnassus.  Zope now has an
equivalent repository of code snippets at
http://www.zopelabs.com - it passed the 300-entries
mark this weekend.

</tip>


--
------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov 18 18:32:00 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon Nov 18 18:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] ereg_replace
References: <6F30E1D6-FB51-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3DD986FF.9060109@teltest.com>

This is one of those (rare) occasions where something worked a lot
better than expected and I want to know why.
I have html code in a database that has been "encoded" using
htmlentities, so
<p class="Container">text</p>
now looks like:
&lt;p class=&quot;Container&quot;&gt;text&lt;/p&gt;
( Disclaimer - This is for a personal CMS project, so don't ask about
the logic of storing it this way, and yes,  I *am* going to change it
later on :) )
I have tested using ereg_replace("&lt;", "<", $storedHtmlStringValue);
 to "unescape" the html in the database and output it as regular html,
I figured that the above function would only replace the"<" character
but it replaces both the "<" and the ">" character.Yes,  I have rtfm and
from what is stated, the function should only replace one character not
2. Any ideas???

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 18:47:01 2002
From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick)
Date: Mon Nov 18 18:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <6F30E1D6-FB51-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>
Message-ID: <481E325F-FB58-11D6-8E80-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>

On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 11:57 PM, Andrew Forsberg wrote:

> On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 11:27 PM, rudy wrote:
>>
>> could somebody please explain (offlist is okay, because obviously i'm
>> slow)
>>
>> how is an object different from an include?
>>
>
> ooh, ooh, this is always explained by analogy, so can i have a go?
> please?
>
> let's say we have a class called 'cocktail', and we have another class
> called 'martini'

Just seen the new James Bond movie Andrew?

Another huge advantage with classes, as a pose to includes, is to avoid
variables having the same name. This is especially common when you have
lots of programmers working on a single site, or you start to use third
party code.

Imagine you are putting together a website for a garage, and you want
to keep track of a number of different vehicles and their data.

Using includes you might call 'car.php' and 'motorbike.php' into you
logic. These were written months apart, and what you have forgotten is
that both include files have functions 'change_tyre' that act on a
variable 'wheel'. The next thing you know that nice Harley is sporting
tyres from a Nissan Micra.

By using classes you 'hide' the wheel variables and 'change_tyre'
methods, so that they are only addressed though an instance of the
class; that is a single, specific example of the generic class.

So, in PHP, you would say:

	$nissan_micra = new Car () ;

	$harley = new Motorbike () ;

	$nissan_micra -> change_wheel ( 'front-left' ) ;

	$harley -> change_wheel ( 'rear' )

The bike class could have a subtly different change_wheel method, so
that it knows it only has two wheels and would throw an error if you
tried to change a third. From the point of view of the programmer,
however, he only has to remember to call the 'same' change_wheel
function 'through' the instance of the class.

If at a later date, you modify the motorbike class so that it deals
with trikes, there is no way you can mess up any of your car logic, as
it has been kept apart.

Or maybe you want to keep track of the body color...

	$nissan_micra -> paint_body ( 'green' ) ;

	$nissan_micra_two = new Car () ;

	$nissan_micra_two - > paint_body ( 'red' ) ;

In this case, each nissan is an instance of the generic car class, and
has a discrete, independent 'body_color' variable.

And as long as you only address the body_color variable through a
method acting on that particular nissan, you don't even have to know
whether the painting is being done by hand or with a spray can.

When you are dealing with lots of 'copies' of the same things, objects
and classes will make you life a lot easier.

In the context of a web page, for instance, you normally create a page
with multiple queries to a database; if you keep the results of each
query in an object, it makes it much easier to avoid accidently
deleting a result set, or moving the pointer in a loop when you are
displaying the results.

HTH

--
Andy Warwick

Creed New Media Design, Nottingham, UK
[t] +44 (0)115 8476867
[w] <http://www.creed.co.uk/src/evolt/index.htm>



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 19:35:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 19:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <481E325F-FB58-11D6-8E80-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004601c28f6b$cbe8a7d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

the martini example made me thirsty, but brought zero additional
understanding to my pathetic levels of comprehension

the cars example was headed down the same road, until i saw

    $harley = new Motorbike () ;

and that looks an awful lot like javascript

it also looks like that coldfusion structure business that i have -- so help
me -- never seen the need for yet

bikes i understand, and any programmer who coded an application
to put a car tire on a bike should be shot

nobody has said boo yet about how objects are better than includes

or even how they're different, although i'm getting a sickening
feeling i'm not gonna like the answer

> When you are dealing with lots of 'copies' of the same things,
> objects and classes will make you life a lot easier.

well, maybe i'm spoiled, working in the database world, where
things only exist once (because you declare primary keys, right?)
and multiple times only through defined relationships

> In the context of a web page, for instance, you normally create a
> page with multiple queries to a database; if you keep the results
> of each query in an object

with coldfusion, i don't have to keep any query results, coldfusion
keeps them for me

i don't even know where it keeps them, but that's fine

is that what's meant by hidden data?

> it makes it much easier to avoid accidently deleting a result set,

in coldfusion you have to actually do wierd things to make that happen

> or moving the pointer in a loop when you are
> displaying the results.

in coldfusion you operate on sets, and looping isn't necessary

listen, i do apologize for always coming back to how things work in
coldfusion, but it's the only web scripting and database language i know,
and i'm hoping someone can relate this object class goodness to me
once they know where i'm coming form


where were we?  oh yeah, includes


rudy




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon Nov 18 19:53:01 2002
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon Nov 18 19:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <004601c28f6b$cbe8a7d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <6DE13489-FB61-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>

hi rudy

> the martini example made me thirsty, but brought zero additional
> understanding to my pathetic levels of comprehension
>

my bad.

>
> nobody has said boo yet about how objects are better than includes
>

they're not better or worse -- they're different. in php (at least)
classes are normally included via require_once() or include_once()
anyway.

here's my second attempt:

say the original poster in this thread decided to rewrite his app to
use objects instead of includes. in that case he might create a class
called Menu, then include this class in his program, then every time he
wanted to create a menu he'd make a new menu object:

require_once('../incs/Menu.php');
$menu = new menu();

then, say we wanted to add a new listing to the menu:

$menu->addOption("stir the cocktail", "/index.php?go=stir");

or, delete an option:

$menu->deleteOption("quit");

or, change the colour of the menu bar:

$menu->changeColor("go BLUE!!!");

finally, to output the menu one might:

$menu->printMenu();

so, the idea is to restrict all the menu related stuff to the menu
object. all the formatting, sql, output, etc go are called from the
menu object itself. other things don't get to muck with how the menu
object changes background colour, they just ask the menu object to do
it.

the point? well, if the db driving the menu system changes then we just
need to alter the menu class; if we want a breadcrumb trail, we can
extend the menu system and change the way it formats itself -- the same
info is required, afterall.


> where were we?  oh yeah, includes

still important, not usurped, don't fear. :|


hope this wasn't as muddled sounding.



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 20:07:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 20:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <6DE13489-FB61-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>
Message-ID: <001201c28f70$478dce20$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

thanks andrew, i do see somewhat more now

> classes are normally included via ...

stop right there

includes are normally included, too

what's the difference?


> then, say we wanted to add a new listing to the menu:
>
> $menu->addOption("stir the cocktail", "/index.php?go=stir");

in my case, the data is either in the database or on its way
to the browser as html -- i don't see why i have to store it in
an object if i just want to output what's in the database

or delete it?  shoot, if i wanted to delete a menu item, i'd better do
that in the database, or i'm screwed

or change its colour!??  hey, my style sheet governs that!!

> finally, to output the menu one might:
>
> $menu->printMenu();

i'm getting the idea, but i don't see how this gives me the flexibility
i need in separating form from content

sometimes the menu will be one tier of the hierarchy, sometimes more

sometimes it'll be a css-styled list, sometimes table cells

i would imagine -- feel free to enlighten me -- that the guy writing the
html will have something to say about how a menu should be displayed

if you encapsulate style into content, isn't that a step backward?


rudy




From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Mon Nov 18 20:09:00 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Mon Nov 18 20:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <004601c28f6b$cbe8a7d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
References: <481E325F-FB58-11D6-8E80-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021118180344.00aefda0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 05:33 PM 11/18/2002, you wrote:
>nobody has said boo yet about how objects are better than includes.

         Objects are /different/ than includes.

         Every time you include something, it will run. Every time. The
whole code.

         With an object, it runs only when you ask it to run. It only
"exists" once, and you just reference back to it.

         An include "exists" as many times as you include it.

         Imagine there's a beach ball in your house. That's an object. When
you want to bean somebody in the face with it, you just pick up the beach
ball and throw it.

         You don't make a _new_ beach ball every time you want to throw it
at somebody. That would be an include.

         -Max
--



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 20:35:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 20:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <481E325F-FB58-11D6-8E80-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk> <5.1.1.5.2.20021118180344.00aefda0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <002a01c28f74$210e2a70$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

>          Objects are /different/ than includes.

i shall take that on pure faith for the time being

>          Every time you include something, it will run. Every time. The
> whole code.
>
>          With an object, it runs only when you ask it to run. It only
> "exists" once, and you just reference back to it.

if i ask it to run, it runs?  and i would not ask it to run if i didn't want
it to?

and assuming i don't include something if i don't need it -- i mean,
why would i? that'd be just as silly -- then so as far as "running" goes,
there's no difference?

>          An include "exists" as many times as you include it.

i would include an include only once on each page though

to me, an include does something, like runs the SELECT statement
to get the menu items out of the database

i would only do that once on each page, and even then, with query
caching, it might not really run!!   (can objects do that?)

or an include is a snippet of code, like the footer text, which i have
a hard time seeing why i would want more than once per page...

>          Imagine there's a beach ball in your house. That's an object.
When
> you want to bean somebody in the face with it, you just pick up the beach
> ball and throw it.

martinis, cars and tires, bean a beach ball in your baby's face...

i still don't get it

>          You don't make a _new_ beach ball every time you want to throw it
> at somebody. That would be an include.

thanks for trying, but could you relate that to html, divs, web pages, and
includes (which i take to be portions of web pages, or portions of the
scripts
that generate web pages) -- like, a nav bar at the top of each page

isn't each web page a new page?  and you're saying if i want to pick up
that beach ball and serve it to your browser, that's an include?

or, if it's an object, and it exists only once, how do i send it to your
browser?

or are you saying every web page in my web site is written with
encapsulated objects that i just have to use the right method of?

   $webpage --> thiswebpage.code()

well, that may look neat, but it's still smoke & mirrors to me

;o)


rudy



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon Nov 18 20:49:01 2002
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon Nov 18 20:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
Message-ID: <3269EC78-FB69-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>

> thanks andrew, i do see somewhat more now
>

yay.

>> classes are normally included via ...
>
> stop right there
>
> includes are normally included, too
>
> what's the difference?
>

in your CF app, like a php app, you'd might do something like this

// get your db connection

// work out what the page is meant to do
// (e.g., parse GET variables to see what the user wants)

// retrieve your data

// format it

// output it

everything is done one step after the other. that's the 'procedural'
method. the other method which is still fairly fashionable (and,
arguably, unsuited to PHP's object model) is the 'object oriented'
method (OOP). that's where you do something like this:

// make a db connection

// make a page object -- let it work out what info's required by the
user
// -- let it work out how to get info from the db
// -- let it retrieve the data
// -- let it format it
// -- let it output it

what's the difference? well, nothing to the end user. to the developer
it's important if the language is java, or c++, or python, or
whatever-else. to a php developer it could get right messy after the
second version of the zend engine is released (when php becomes a bit
more sensible as an OOP language, imho, no flames please).

the primary advantage of using objects is, as Andy Warwick pointed out,
encapsulation -- all that page info, all the stuff that page does, is
internal. say in your CF app you had an include that had a variable
called pageID -- and you include that on every page. you use it to
retrieve your page from a db. now say your menu is dynamically
generated in a loop where there are many pageIDs floating around... it
could get messy. it shouldn't if everything is well designed, but it
can. under the OOP model your page object has its own ID and nothing
can alter it without asking it first (again, if everything is well
designed).

perhaps a slightly better example is the case of APIs -- say you're
building group of functions which extend on the provided PHP db
functions, and you want to support more than one vendor's db. a
class/object system is great in this situation --

$db = new db('mysql','localhost','whatever'....)
$db->query = "UPDATE WHATEVER .....";
$db->runQuery();

so you can have several objects with different queries, or even
database servers, running concurrently, and they're all grouped in
easily identifiable spaces (each object holds inside itself all the
stuff it needs).

i don't think there's anything one can *do* with the OOP model that
isn't possible with a procedural model, and i prefer the latter (that's
probably obvious by now), but i guess the point is the response to the
original post was encouraging Tom to reconsider his approach to the
problem -- to use a different programming methodology, rather than a
different programming function.

andrew's last ditch effort to make a point:

RDBMS vs XML

but wait, there's more:

>
>> then, say we wanted to add a new listing to the menu:
>>
>> $menu->addOption("stir the cocktail", "/index.php?go=stir");
>
> in my case, the data is either in the database or on its way
> to the browser as html -- i don't see why i have to store it in
> an object if i just want to output what's in the database
>
> or delete it?  shoot, if i wanted to delete a menu item, i'd better do
> that in the database, or i'm screwed
>
> or change its colour!??  hey, my style sheet governs that!!
>

how about $order->addProduct('shoes');
or
$myTable->addColumn($columnName, $columnType);


>> finally, to output the menu one might:
>>
>> $menu->printMenu();
>
> i'm getting the idea, but i don't see how this gives me the flexibility
> i need in separating form from content
>

the examples may be poor -- how about if the above was:

$menu->applyTemplate("BlueTemplate");
// where BlueTemplate was retrieved from a database table of CSS styles
$menu->printMenu($system);
> thanks andrew, i do see somewhat more now
>

yay.

>> classes are normally included via ...
>
> stop right there
>
> includes are normally included, too
>
> what's the difference?
>

in your CF app, like a php app, you'd might do something like this

// get your db connection

// work out what the page is meant to do
// (e.g., parse GET variables to see what the user wants)

// retrieve your data

// format it

// output it

everything is done one step after the other. that's the 'procedural'
method. the other method which is still fairly fashionable (and,
arguably, unsuited to PHP's object model) is the 'object oriented'
method (OOP). that's where you do something like this:

// make a db connection

// make a page object -- let it work out what info's required by the
user
// -- let it work out how to get info from the db
// -- let it retrieve the data
// -- let it format it
// -- let it output it

what's the difference? well, nothing to the end user. to the developer
it's important if the language is java, or c++, or python, or
whatever-else. to a php developer it could get right messy after the
second version of the zend engine is released (when php becomes a bit
more sensible as an OOP language, imho, no flames please).

the primary advantage of using objects is, as Andy Warwick pointed out,
encapsulation -- all that page info, all the stuff that page does, is
internal. say in your CF app you had an include that had a variable
called pageID -- and you include that on every page. you use it to
retrieve your page from a db. now say your menu is dynamically
generated in a loop where there are many pageIDs floating around... it
could get messy. it shouldn't if everything is well designed, but it
can. under the OOP model your page object has its own ID and nothing
can alter it without asking it first (again, if everything is well
designed).

perhaps a slightly better example is the case of APIs -- say you're
building group of functions which extend on the provided PHP db
functions, and you want to support more than one vendor's db. a
class/object system is great in this situation --

$db = new db('mysql','localhost','whatever'....)
$db->query = "UPDATE WHATEVER .....";
$db->runQuery();

so you can have several objects with different queries, or even
database servers, running concurrently, and they're all grouped in
easily identifiable spaces (each object holds inside itself all the
stuff it needs).

i don't think there's anything one can *do* with the OOP model that
isn't possible with a procedural model, and i prefer the latter (that's
probably obvious by now), but i guess the point is the response to the
original post was encouraging Tom to reconsider his approach to the
problem -- to use a different programming methodology, rather than a
different programming function.

andrew's last ditch effort to make a point:

RDBMS vs XML

but wait, there's more:

>
>> then, say we wanted to add a new listing to the menu:
>>
>> $menu->addOption("stir the cocktail", "/index.php?go=stir");
>
> in my case, the data is either in the database or on its way
> to the browser as html -- i don't see why i have to store it in
> an object if i just want to output what's in the database
>
> or delete it?  shoot, if i wanted to delete a menu item, i'd better do
> that in the database, or i'm screwed
>
> or change its colour!??  hey, my style sheet governs that!!
>

how about $order->addProduct('shoes');
or
$myTable->addColumn($columnName, $columnType);


>> finally, to output the menu one might:
>>
>> $menu->printMenu();
>
> i'm getting the idea, but i don't see how this gives me the flexibility
> i need in separating form from content
>

the examples may be poor -- how about if the above was:

$menu->applyTemplate("BlueTemplate");
// where BlueTemplate was retrieved from a database table of CSS styles
$menu->printMenu($system);
// which collates and outputs all the html and css for the menu system
if $system is "HTML", or a printer friendly version, or a PDF, or
whatever...

form and content can still be as separate as your code allows.

>
> i would imagine -- feel free to enlighten me -- that the guy writing
> the
> html will have something to say about how a menu should be displayed
>
> if you encapsulate style into content, isn't that a step backward?
>

only if it's hard coded into the program. but that applies to OOP or
procedural programming.

bottom line: it's a methodology -- socialism vs communism vs capitalism
vs anarchism. they all attempt to do the same thing: structure a
community's politics. OOP vs procedural, they're different ways of
structuring the way a program works. OOP has been more fashionable for
15-odd years (feel free to correct, that's a half-arsed guess). with
procedural programming you have a flow chart, with OOP you get a nice
structural tree of relationships (parents -- children)  (to impress
management with, no doubt) , as well as a flow chart.

[fwiw, i'm quite enjoying this after an evolt leave of absence:) ]


// which collates and outputs all the html and css for the menu system
if $system is "HTML", or a printer friendly version, or a PDF, or
whatever...

form and content can still be as separate as your code allows.

>
> i would imagine -- feel free to enlighten me -- that the guy writing
> the
> html will have something to say about how a menu should be displayed
>
> if you encapsulate style into content, isn't that a step backward?
>

only if it's hard coded into the program. but that applies to OOP or
procedural programming.

bottom line: it's a methodology -- socialism vs communism vs capitalism
vs anarchism. they all attempt to do the same thing: structure a
community's politics. OOP vs procedural, they're different ways of
structuring the way a program works. OOP has been more fashionable for
15-odd years (feel free to correct, that's a half-arsed guess). with
procedural programming you have a flow chart, with OOP you get a nice
structural tree of relationships (parents -- children)  (to impress
management with, no doubt) , as well as a flow chart.

[fwiw, i'm quite enjoying this after an evolt leave of absence:) ]



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Mon Nov 18 20:55:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Mon Nov 18 20:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <002a01c28f74$210e2a70$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
References: <481E325F-FB58-11D6-8E80-0050E4805149@creed.co.uk>
 <5.1.1.5.2.20021118180344.00aefda0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021118184032.02267c68@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 06:34 PM 11/18/2002, you wrote:
>or an include is a snippet of code, like the footer text, which i have
>a hard time seeing why i would want more than once per page...

         Yeah, in those cases I usually use includes as well. In fact, in
almost every case I use includes.

         It is, of course, generally poor programming structure, but
includes are much better supported in Web-Development languages.

>thanks for trying, but could you relate that to html, divs, web pages, and
>includes (which i take to be portions of web pages, or portions of the
>scripts that generate web pages) -- like, a nav bar at the top of each page

         All right. The difference between includes and objects, as far as
web development goes, it often not significant. However, there is:    A) A
conceptual difference
         and
         B) A difference to the server

         Include Way:
         1) I have CODE for a nav bar.
         2) I include that code in a page.
         3) Server generates a nav bar every time I ask for any page, and
then sends it to the user.

         Object Way:
         1) I have a file that contains code for a nav bar.
         2) When I save that file, I now have a "Nav Bar" as a concept.
         2a) I can say, "Dance, Nav Bar, dance!"
         3) I "call" that object from my page. (navBar.show(), let's say)
         4) Server asks the Nav Bar to generate itself and then sends it to
the user.

         Now, that's really, really basic. It's not even totally accurate.
I could have made that explanation way more complex, but I don't think that
it needs it.Web Pages don't USUALLY require totally object-oriented
programming. (As for the question "what IS object-oriented programming,
really, and why use it..." don't ask. :-) That one took me a year of
writing application code to really understand. There are some excellent
explanations online somewhere, I am sure.)

         The short answer is: No, there's almost never a difference between
objects and includes in current web development languages, but there is a
CONCEPTUAL difference, and that difference may matter in the future.

         -Max
--



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon Nov 18 21:00:01 2002
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question + tip
In-Reply-To: <3269EC78-FB69-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>
Message-ID: <C607D3CB-FB6A-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>

On Tuesday, November 19, 2002, at 03:47 PM, Andrew Forsberg wrote:
[clip]

what a retard i am... sorry about the double up mail.

<tip type="php data modeling, sql builder, pear">
my latest, happiest-making find:
http://pear.php.net/manual/en/packages.database.db-dataobject.php

having to manually install the package is slightly annoying, but it's
nice to play around with a well thought out automagic sql builder ...

'n it knows where your joins are. nice.
</tip>



From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com  Mon Nov 18 21:06:01 2002
From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <3269EC78-FB69-11D6-997A-0003937746CC@thepander.co.nz>
Message-ID: <BKEMLDOEKDPCPNKCIFKNAECGMDAA.eric.engelmann@geonetric.com>

One other way to look at this is that objects let you force an interface to
accept only certain types of information. Sort of like stored procedures do
in a database, you can specify that your code will only run given the exact
parameters of exactly the right type, in exactly the right order. It locks
it down to a black-box type model, and you reference the object with just
the parameters or methods you want.

An include file just inserts code wherever you need it to run, as Andrew
said, procedurally, in order, as if you'd typed it right into the page. You
don't get any parameter-able functions from the include file itself.

They're both ways to encapsulate code, just that objects give you a forced
definition of how to get the information in & out, whereas includes are just
"run this stuff right here, where I included it".

Not sure if that clarifies anything or not.

- Eric




From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 21:08:01 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <001201c28f70$478dce20$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <000801c28f78$c11e9690$d300a8c0@core>

I'm going to try a take on this :)

its now 3:00am and Ive been working all day I appologise if this makes
no sense!

Part of the confusion here is coming from comparing includes to classes
and OO code.
Includes may contain classes, but that's pretty much where the
comparison ends.

I use classes entensively over at www.cache-22.co.uk, view the php
source of any page (the <?php?> link on every page) to see the code, it
may help or it may not :)

For an example I will talk about the calendar on my site.
I have a calendar class
(www.cache-22.co.uk/source/classes/class.calendar.php) which contains
all the code for the calendar object.
Then I have a page (www.cache-22.co.uk/source/blog/) which creates and
instance of the calendar:

$cal = new Calendar($month, $year, $day, $dates);

$dates is another object which contains stuff to check dates for
validity etc, but we don't need to worry about that here.

So now we have a calendar object I can access all its methods (functions
basically) and varibles through.
For example on my blog page I set links for certain days by doing the
following:

$cal->AddLinkToDay($day, $link);

And then I can call the GetHTML() method of my calendar object and it
will do some stuff to generate the HTML. GetHTML() happens to go through
all the days in the month, add a link if necessary, set the class of the
td depending on certain things and then return the html. But we don't
need to know how it works - it just does it. It hides the implementation
from the user so you don't need to know what is going on.

I could have implemented all this the same by having a bunch of
functions doing exactly the same thing or including files with bits of
code in them that do what you want but the point is that it makes the
code easier to write, read, debug etc..

Another of the main points is for code reuse. Someone else should be
able to take any of the classes and reuse them without so much as
changing a line of code. All you need to know is how to implement it and
you are away.
It's a black box in that sense, many OO books give reference to things
like tape recorders. You don't need to know how it works underneath the
case, you don't need to know any theory about magnetism and electronics,
you just need to know that if you press things in a certain order then
it records and if you do things in a different way it will playback.
An OO version of a tape recoder could be something like:

$vcr = new TapeRecorder();
$vcr->loadTape('tape name');
$vcr->setChannel(2);
$vcr->record();

// an hour later we want to watch our program..
$vcr->stop();
$vcr->rewind();
$vcr->play();

Its abstracted what the vcr is doing internally and is much easier to
read than a textbook on electronics.
Back to the calendar example - someone can take the class, read the
documentation on how to use it
(http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Programs/R.Livsey/C22_Calendar_Class
) and they can then use it without ever looking at how the class works.

Anyway, in summary it's a different way to program and nothing to do
with includes :)

Probably muddied the water even more but it was worth a try!

hth

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com




From evolt at MARSorange.com  Mon Nov 18 21:10:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021118180344.00aefda0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

Classes and includes are unique levels of any programming language.

Includes are language constructs. Constructs instruct the interpreter
or compiler how to assemble the actual code. Other constructs include:
if-then, foreach...

Classes are relational groupings. They serve as higher-level way for a
programmer to organize their procedures. Other relational groupings
are: functions, subroutines...

Most modern programming languages I know of have include [or header]
features which work on a completely different level of the language
than the actual classes/objects do.

Quite literally, neither can take the place of the other. The include
construct just happens to have functionality that (to a programmer
without a solid CS-style background) can make it work kinda like a
class does.

Rudy wrote:
> well, maybe i'm spoiled, working in the database world, where
> things only exist once (because you declare primary keys, right?)
> and multiple times only through defined relationships

That must be because you only use Relational Databases [RDBMS] ;)

Object-Oriented Databases exist too:
	- Zope in Python ( http://www.zope.org/ )
	- Ozone in Java ( http://ozone-db.org/ )
are two OODBMS's with which I am familiar.


Rudy also wrote (in a different post):
> listen, i do apologize for always coming back to how things work in
> coldfusion, but it's the only web scripting and database language i
> know,
> and i'm hoping someone can relate this object class goodness to me
> once they know where i'm coming form

ColdFusion is objects that are pre-built to solve the most common
Web-specific programming tasks. That's why it seems so simple :)  All
programming languages are "pre-objectified" to some degree with their
intended purpose in mind.

Mars :)




From evolt at MARSorange.com  Mon Nov 18 21:15:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] ereg_replace
In-Reply-To: <3DD986FF.9060109@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <EEE2FF7F-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Monday, Nov 18, 2002, at 18:34 US/Central, Paul Bennett wrote:
> I have tested using ereg_replace("&lt;", "<", $storedHtmlStringValue);
> to "unescape" the html in the database and output it as regular html,
> I figured that the above function would only replace the"<" character
> but it replaces both the "<" and the ">" character.Yes,  I have rtfm
> and
> from what is stated, the function should only replace one character not
> 2. Any ideas???

The ereg_replace function only does what you tell it to. There is no
magic!

You must have something else in your code that is either:
	- decoding the HTML entities
	- not encoding them it in the first place

Without the source code, we cannot conjure an answer.

Mars :)



From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov 18 21:37:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] ereg_replace
References: <EEE2FF7F-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <3DD9B255.2020804@teltest.com>

> Without the source code, we cannot conjure an answer.


As the Big Man says: "Ask and ye shall receive" :)

$var = "<p class=\"header\">hello</p>";
echo $var."<br/>"; // shows: <p class="header">hello</p>

$var2 = htmlentities($var);
echo $var2."<br/>"; // shows: &lt;p
class=&quot;header&quot;&gt;hello&lt;/p&gt;<br/>

$var3 = htmlspecialchars($var);
echo $var3."<br/>"; // shows: &lt;p
class=&quot;header&quot;&gt;hello&lt;/p&gt;<br/>

$replaceChar = "<";
$var4 = ereg_replace("&gt;", $replaceChar , $var);
echo $var4."<br/>"; // shows: <p class="header">hello</p>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From evolt at MARSorange.com  Mon Nov 18 21:50:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] ereg_replace
In-Reply-To: <3DD9B255.2020804@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <CDC72666-FB71-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Monday, Nov 18, 2002, at 21:39 US/Central, Paul Bennett wrote:
> $var = "<p class=\"header\">hello</p>";
> echo $var."<br/>"; // shows: <p class="header">hello</p>
> [...SNIP...]
> $replaceChar = "<";
> $var4 = ereg_replace("&gt;", $replaceChar , $var);
> echo $var4."<br/>"; // shows: <p class="header">hello</p>

In this last section, you execute an ereg_replace() with $var as the
subject string.

But $var is still the original, un-encoded characters... so, the
ereg_replace() does nothing.

$var == $var4

Where is the magic? I see none!

Mars :)



From michael at eggplant.ws  Mon Nov 18 21:50:06 2002
From: michael at eggplant.ws (Michael Caplan)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:50:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <20021118220025.1972E3A2E@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <ELEGLBLIMMILFAOLDIPECEDMEEAA.michael@eggplant.ws>

Dan,

I am presently writing a newsletter application for a client built upon
procmail's SmartList (http://www.procmail.org/) -- a bi-directional email
list application.  While I really hate working with procmail (cryptic as all
hell!), it is really easy to build an application upon it in PHP that
utilizes its ability to handle receiving email, you therefore just need to
deal with the rest (which is no small feet!).  Smartlist is licensed under
the liberal "Artistic License," and just about all Linux boxes have procmail
running on it.

Just a suggestion.

Michael





From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Nov 18 21:57:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov 18 21:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> ColdFusion is objects that are pre-built to solve the most common
> Web-specific programming tasks. That's why it seems so simple :)

ah, i get it -- finally!!

i need object oriented programming if i hope to write the equivalent of
the coldfusion server

folks, thanks for all the lovely explanations


max, your example wins the prize as best illustrating my predicament

if i want to use an include, i go "include navbar.txt"

if i want to use a class, i say "dance, nav bar, dance" and go
"navbar.show()"

i still don't see the difference, but boy oh boy, i do hope they ask me this
on my next job interview


eric, you said i don't get any parameterable functions from the include

sure i do

<cfset team="da bears">
<cfset week=11>
<cfinclude listgames.txt>

if you're gonna say "hey, the listgames include needs to have a couple
variables set or else it won't work right," the answer is yes, if i wrote it
that way

ron, you make it sound like with classes the programmers can't screw up:

> Another of the main points is for code reuse. Someone else should
> be able to take any of the classes and reuse them without so much
> as changing a line of code. All you need to know is how to implement
> it and you are away.

change that paragraph and say "includes" instead of "classes" and
you have exactly the same result, someone can use includes without
changing a line in them -- assuming they were written with that in mind,
which they would be, and assuming you know how to use them


rudy



From michael at eggplant.ws  Mon Nov 18 22:01:01 2002
From: michael at eggplant.ws (Michael Caplan)
Date: Mon Nov 18 22:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Registering form changes without form submission
Message-ID: <ELEGLBLIMMILFAOLDIPEMEDMEEAA.michael@eggplant.ws>

Hi,

I am curious if any JavaScript hackers out there have any ideas on how I can
possibly go about solving this problem: I have a form that display's data
from a DB.  The form allows the user to toggle a field with a dropdown list
(they can chose between "Text" and "HTML").  As opposed to having the user
make changes with this dropdown list and then submitting the form herself, I
would like to automate dropdown changes without the need for form
submission.  So, when I change a dropdown field, some JavaScript
communicates with the web server notifying it of the change, while the
user's page stays the same.  Is this possible, and if so, what would the
JavaScript roughly look like?

Thanks,

Michael




From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov 18 22:15:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon Nov 18 22:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] ereg_replace
References: <CDC72666-FB71-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <3DD9BB52.5060002@teltest.com>

Apologies, I am retarded :p

<tip type="application" author="Paul Bennett">
Want to keep lots of little pieces of information in one handy place and
in one file while retaining directory type structure over the information?
Treepad is a handy utility that allows you to store and organize
 information in a tree structure. Like any good utility, it is small ,
free, fast and easy to use:
http://www.treepad.com/download/
(You can get the 2.9.5 version for free)
Windows only sorry :(
</tip>

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Mon Nov 18 22:19:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Mon Nov 18 22:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Registering form changes without form submission
In-Reply-To: <ELEGLBLIMMILFAOLDIPEMEDMEEAA.michael@eggplant.ws>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021118201620.00ae75a8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 07:58 PM 11/18/2002, you wrote:
>I am curious if any JavaScript hackers out there have any ideas on how I can
>possibly go about solving this problem: [snip]

         Where I work, what we usually do is just submit the form to a
hidden frame upon either the onBlur or onChange event. I could find some
code, probably, if you'd need to see it.

         What I don't know is: Are there better ways of doing this?

         -Max
--



From mpember at phreaker.net  Mon Nov 18 23:23:01 2002
From: mpember at phreaker.net (mpember at phreaker.net)
Date: Mon Nov 18 23:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Registering form changes without form submission
Message-ID: <200211190522.gAJ5MtN21175@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>

When I was working with the guys from DynAPI, we had this dicussion.  There were various solutions offered.  For one way traffic, a hidden / transparent image could be used to send the data by reloading a url including the new data.

eg: update.php/image.png?name=first&surname=last

If you need confirmation, setting an onload listener for the image can check for any cookies sent back by the server.

On a personal project, I started using java do perform the same function.  I allowed my to force JS to wait until the data was loaded before continuing.  It had some side effects and problems, but if you want to see the code, just drop me a line offlist.

----
Michael Pemberton

-- Original Message --
From: Max Kanat-Alexander <maxka at cats.ucsc.edu>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Send: 2002-11-19
Subject: Re: [thelist] Registering form changes without form submission

         What I don't know is: Are there better ways of doing this?







From boris at bmannconsulting.com  Tue Nov 19 00:06:00 2002
From: boris at bmannconsulting.com (Boris Mann)
Date: Tue Nov 19 00:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] For the love of whatever god you hold holy, strip the friggin messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021118181532.00a66f78@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F1BDE287-FB84-11D6-B877-000393703A62@bmannconsulting.com>

But at least we know it's virus free!

(Sorry, couldn't resist. Here's the tip-tithe)

<tip type="Anti Virus" author="Boris Mann">

AVG, available from http://www.grisoft.com, is quite a good anti-virus
program for Windows that is free to use. It will even integrate with
Outlook/Outlook Express and scan your email.

However, emails without attachments really don't need to be scanned. Go
into options and turn off email scanning unless there is an attachment.

</tip>

On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 06:17 PM, Benjamin wrote:

> This is pathetic.  I would expect something like this to come to me
> via my
> sister-in-law who has little to no internet experience but from someone
> that sells their skills on the open market???  It takes less than a
> minute
> to trim a message to only the relevant parts.  Please do this; it makes
> everyone's life more enjoyable.

<snip>big, long, untrimmed message</snip>

>> ---
>> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 08/11/2002



From jasonh at pavilion.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 01:57:01 2002
From: jasonh at pavilion.co.uk (Jason Handby)
Date: Tue Nov 19 01:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOAEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BCECILFBJDKJHANCJGJAMEABFPAA.jasonh@pavilion.co.uk>

> I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98
> box if anyone has
> found one :)

http://www.pmail.com/overviews/ovw_mercury.htm



Jason



From joel at spinhead.com  Tue Nov 19 02:07:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Tue Nov 19 02:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806C8@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> if i want to use an include, i go "include navbar.txt"
>
> if i want to use a class, i say "dance, nav bar, dance" and
> go "navbar.show()"
>
> i still don't see the difference, but boy oh boy, i do hope
> they ask me this on my next job interview

My turn ;)

Going way *way* back to very very basic, in case that's what you meant all
along (and putting it in a practical 'why should rudy do this or that'
perspective):

Includes are procedural. Objects are not.

I want the cat to leave the back yard. I can write a lengthy procedure
detailing the steps required for the cat to leave the yard. It is
complicated, but I am smart.

On the other hand, I can simply introduce an 'object' (how about a dog?)
which has a 'method' (maybe, chase?) which will make the cat leave. Simpler,
more direct *as long as the object and method already exist.* If not, I can
create the object, and then use it over and over again. Um, just like an
include.

There are probably a zillion efficiency reasons to use objects whenever
possible. It also sounds cool to say you know something about
object-oriented whatever (and acronyms that start with 'OO' are the bomb.)
But in real life, if you have to create the object, or you have to create
the include, you're probably doing about the same amount of work, and
getting the same results.

Here's where it's different for me: I *think* in object-oriented whatevers.
So, if I have an include that, well, includes the procedural procedure, it
works fine, but I can't always remember what it does (or how) without
peeking at the code. But if I build an object with a bunch of methods (which
may be functionally identical to the include right over there) it's easier
for me to remember *what* my object can do and *how* to do it - I'm not left
struggling to get the syntax correct, it flows naturally because it's how I
think.

Some of you old guys (I crack me up) think procedurally, and that's your
natural state. Unless you are already convinced that you need to use objects
instead of includes, don't bother. When you have a need which makes an
object superior to an include, you'll probably recognize it and figure it
out for yourself. In the meantime, grow your hair, get things pierced, and
write procedures.

Close? In the ballpark, even?

joel


From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 03:07:00 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 03:07:00 2002
Subject: OT: was Re: [thelist] For the love of ...
In-Reply-To: <20021119035939.8D4B63A17@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119034855.00ab0eb0@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

I copied the entire message verbatim to prove a point.  Myself along with
numerous others have commented on this to no avail so I was merely trying
to make the point a little more obvious.  Think of it as saying, "Knock
knock" with a battering ram instead of a gentle rapping of the
knuckles.  This has been the bane of many discussion groups (even among
developers) and it often times takes a stern message to get the true point
across.


At 09:59 PM 11/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Easy, tiger.
>
>While yes, while trimming your posts is *absolutely*
>the thing to do,
>
>a)  There's no need for abuse, and moreover
>
>b)  Committing the exact same offence yourself does
>     slightly take the sting out of your point.



From futureweb at macmail.com  Tue Nov 19 03:57:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Tue Nov 19 03:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] open PDf file using Flash MX
In-Reply-To: <v02140b12b9fb04e8897a@[10.41.1.204]>
Message-ID: <B9FFBAF4.1D2A%futureweb@macmail.com>

> For standalone use, a Flash Projector is just a standalone shell around the
> Macromedia Flash Web Player, and doesn't really call up external
> applications.

Used to be very easy in Flash 5. Try these resources.

PC.

////////////////////////////////////////
// Flash

on(release) {
fscommand("exec","batfile1.bat")
}


/////////////////////////////////////////
// batfile1.bat

@echo off
start yourfile.pdf
exit

You can write this bat file using notepad but save it as .bat extension (not
txt)

MAC
////////////////////////////////////////
make an applescript file and open that.

more info available here:
http://www.actionscripts.org/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=14844




From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 03:57:06 2002
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Tue Nov 19 03:57:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] newbie resources
Message-ID: <B9FFBAC0.1D28%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Apols if this came through.... had email problems yesterday.

> Just out of interest, if I were learning ASP now, I'd learn ASP.NET, not
> classic ASP. Why did you chose classic ASP? Is it to be able to work on
> stuff you've already produced in your office?

didn't even cross my mind come to think of it, I was under the impression
that .NET was just a microsoft marketing tactic. How does it affect ASP
installed on servers etc? Does it make learning current ASP redundant?


--




From webguru at vsnl.net  Tue Nov 19 04:13:02 2002
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Tue Nov 19 04:13:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4>

I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to change to the logo
of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using just CSS? If
so, could you tell me how please?

Oh, I know it sucks big time and will annoy people, so I'll spare you the
trouble of telling me that. :p
Sometimes, ya' gotta do terrible things to put food on the table, mate.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Internet User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net   |   Yahoo messenger: cold_logic

Content * Interfaces * Usability * Net Strategy



From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 04:35:01 2002
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Tue Nov 19 04:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [CSS] rollover causing layout error NN4
Message-ID: <B9FFC39B.1D2F%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

I have the following page:

http://192.168.0.84/chinahouse/menu.asp

but in nn4 it lloks completely different, when i put copy instaed of
rollovers it works fine?

Here's how its supposed to look and how it fails as well:




From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 04:38:00 2002
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Tue Nov 19 04:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [CSS] rollover causing layout error NN4
Message-ID: <B9FFC40F.1D31%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

url amend, ignore previous, sent mistake.

I have the following page:

http://pup-e.co.uk/chinahouse/menu.asp

but in nn4 it looks completely different, when i put copy instead of
rollovers it works fine?

Here's how its supposed to look and how it fails as well:

http://pup-e.co.uk/chinahouse/csstest.html




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 05:43:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Nov 19 05:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <BCECILFBJDKJHANCJGJAMEABFPAA.jasonh@pavilion.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEPIEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

ok I have this up and running and so far it is working!  except it isn't sending
any mail out.  Before I plough through the online documents are there any quick
pointers, thats I may need to just quickly check?

Andrew



> I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98
> box if anyone has
> found one :)

http://www.pmail.com/overviews/ovw_mercury.htm



Jason

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Tue Nov 19 07:02:01 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Tue Nov 19 07:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mailing Lists: Another Tack
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEPIEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBOEEECDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

We've been using Mach5 Mailer at the office.  It works real well for sending
out newsletter type messages.  It has a few draw backs, like not being able
to handle joins just unsubscribe, but overall it's worth the cost (which was
about $100 if I remember correctly).

http://www.mach5.com/products/mailer/index.php
Warning: The 10,000 messages an hour claim is only realistic if you /don't/
use the built in SMTP server.

HTH,
Jeremy Weiss
whatsmyhomevalue.com


:> I an still looking for a free smpt server that sits on a win98
:> box if anyone has
:> found one :)




From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Nov 19 07:38:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Nov 19 07:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <03d001c28fd0$c4c79960$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Madhu Menon" <webguru at vsnl.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:16 AM


> I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to change to the logo
> of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using just CSS? If
> so, could you tell me how please?

Can you convince your client to be happy with a mouse-orbiting full-color
animated version of the logo instead.  It'd probably be easier.

-joshua



From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk  Tue Nov 19 07:49:00 2002
From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED))
Date: Tue Nov 19 07:49:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
Message-ID: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D028792AD@EDUC_MXS>

afaik the only way you can do this is with javascript and even then I've
only seen it done on links with onmouseover. I guess you could do it with
onload for the page but surely you have better things to do with your time
;-) Or put another way, surely your client can get better value for their
money.

J.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Olson [mailto:joshua at waetech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Madhu Menon" <webguru at vsnl.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:16 AM
>
>
> > I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to
> change to the logo
> > of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using
> just CSS? If
> > so, could you tell me how please?
>
> Can you convince your client to be happy with a
> mouse-orbiting full-color
> animated version of the logo instead.  It'd probably be easier.
>
> -joshua
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee.  If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network.  If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible.



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 07:50:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Tue Nov 19 07:50:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4> <03d001c28fd0$c4c79960$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <3DDA415B.8070205@members.evolt.org>

Joshua Olson wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Madhu Menon" <webguru at vsnl.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:16 AM
>
>
>
>>I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to change to the logo
>>of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using just CSS? If
>>so, could you tell me how please?

*Cough, cough.*

http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/18835/#cursors

Not to toot my own horn or anything. Can your client deal with IE 6 only
having it?
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk  Tue Nov 19 08:01:01 2002
From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED))
Date: Tue Nov 19 08:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
Message-ID: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D028792AE@EDUC_MXS>

Wel, b***er me, you learn something new everyday ;-) I stand corrected and
wish to withdraw my previous post on this subject. Even better that it
degrades nicely although I'd like to check out some examples in various
browsers before I start thinking about using it. Any links to real examples?

J.

> http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/18835/#cursors
>
> Not to toot my own horn or anything. Can your client deal
> with IE 6 only
> having it?
> --
> Lach
The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee.  If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network.  If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible.



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 08:14:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Nov 19 08:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mercury/32
In-Reply-To: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D028792AE@EDUC_MXS>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEPOEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

is anyone running mercury/32 on windows 98 and can able to send out mail?  I
could do with a pointer to set the correct config?

Everything is installed but it just will not send mail out :(

I am getting a temporary error 249

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002



From webguru at vsnl.net  Tue Nov 19 08:57:01 2002
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Tue Nov 19 08:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
In-Reply-To: <3DDA415B.8070205@members.evolt.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4>
 <03d001c28fd0$c4c79960$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119202131.02aeb3b0@203.197.12.4>

At 07:19 PM 19-11-02, Lachlan Cannon wrote:
>*Cough, cough.*
>
>http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/18835/#cursors
>
>Not to toot my own horn or anything. Can your client deal with IE 6 only
>having it?

Thanks, Lach. I'll tell 'em, but my gut tells me they will be OK with it.

The people at http://www.barista.co.in have done something with JS that I
can't fathom. (check one of the inside pages.)


As for the other folks who tried to convince me it was a bad idea...

Dudes, I hate it! I know it's sucky, OK? (Didn't I say that in the first mail?)
But there are times you gotta give a client what he needs or risk losing a
very lucrative contract completely. As a user experience guy, my job is to
advise the client about the best thing to do. Beyond a point, however, it's
their site, and perhaps when people write in saying how much it sucks,
they'll change their minds. I'm not prepared, however, to stand firm and
refuse to do it. There are enough people (a fair few out of work) who can
step up to do the job in my place.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Internet User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net   |   Yahoo messenger: cold_logic

Content * Interfaces * Usability * Net Strategy



From abhayk at netsolutionsindia.com  Tue Nov 19 09:09:00 2002
From: abhayk at netsolutionsindia.com (KUSHWAHA, Abhay S.)
Date: Tue Nov 19 09:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4> <03d001c28fd0$c4c79960$0200a8c0@client1> <5.1.0.14.2.20021119202131.02aeb3b0@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <002e01c28fdd$6f4480e0$6000a8c0@woody>

That is a standard mouse-trail script adapted for only one image.

[abhay]

> The people at http://www.barista.co.in have done something with
> JS that I can't fathom. (check one of the inside pages.)


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Tue Nov 19 09:33:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Tue Nov 19 09:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E446F@smtmb.tmc.local>

Madhu,

I send this to the list a while ago and I managed to change the mouse cursor
to a red mouse when over a <div>. I used css, and a wee bit of
javascript...(View the Source Luke!)

http://www.thermon.com/xtra/cursor.htm

HTH,
Rob.Smith

p.s. If you haven't seen Harry Potter 2 yet, you need to. Its a lot better
than the first one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Madhu Menon [mailto:webguru at vsnl.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:16 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor


I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to change to the logo
of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using just CSS? If
so, could you tell me how please?

Oh, I know it sucks big time and will annoy people, so I'll spare you the
trouble of telling me that. :p
Sometimes, ya' gotta do terrible things to put food on the table, mate.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Internet User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net   |   Yahoo messenger: cold_logic

Content * Interfaces * Usability * Net Strategy

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 09:45:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Tue Nov 19 09:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
References: <F9BE3B1AB649D311A573009027852E4D028792AE@EDUC_MXS>
Message-ID: <3DDA59CB.6090403@members.evolt.org>

Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote:
> Wel, b***er me, you learn something new everyday ;-) I stand corrected and
> wish to withdraw my previous post on this subject. Even better that it
> degrades nicely although I'd like to check out some examples in various
> browsers before I start thinking about using it. Any links to real examples?

There was a link in the comments, but it doesn't appear to be working
now.. it shouldn't take any longer than 5 minutes to whip up a tacky
cursor and a quick page though.

<html>
<head>
<title>cursor test</title>
<style type="text/css">
body {cursor: url('cheesy.cur');}
p {cursor: default;}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p>Foo</p>
</body>

...
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 09:47:01 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Tue Nov 19 09:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E446F@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <000301c28fe2$d9f1f990$d300a8c0@core>

> I send this to the list a while ago and I managed to change
> the mouse cursor to a red mouse when over a <div>. I used
> css, and a wee bit of javascript...(View the Source Luke!)
>
> http://www.thermon.com/xtra/cursor.htm

Works in IE6, but not in Opera 6.01 or Moz 1.2a. They both show a grey
div but no text in it and no mouse changing.

> p.s. If you haven't seen Harry Potter 2 yet, you need to. Its
> a lot better than the first one.

Im off to see it tonight :)

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com



From lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 10:18:00 2002
From: lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com (Jim Williamson)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F39IElR3n4DVvm24Tzm0001cad5@hotmail.com>

I've been trying to find a way in VB Script to do the following:

I have a file located in the following directory:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt

my ASP page is in:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file1.asp

I want to open "file.txt" using OpenTextFile.  OpenTextFile requires an
absolute path to the file.  My "file1.asp" is a template so the exact path
will change depending on what directory the "file1.asp" template is saved
to.

Is there any way to determine what the abolute path of "file.txt" is from
where "file1.asp" resides?

TIA

Jim





_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus



From jbauer at chimesnet.com  Tue Nov 19 10:30:00 2002
From: jbauer at chimesnet.com (Jason Bauer)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] OpenTextFile Absoulute Path
In-Reply-To: <F39IElR3n4DVvm24Tzm0001cad5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <FJEDJFDNEOBNOEFPHNOKEEBLCCAA.jbauer@chimesnet.com>

> C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt
> C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file1.asp
>
> I want to open "file.txt" using OpenTextFile.  OpenTextFile requires an
> absolute path to the file.  My "file1.asp" is a template so the exact path
> will change depending on what directory the "file1.asp" template is saved
> to.
>
> Is there any way to determine what the abolute path of "file.txt" is from
> where "file1.asp" resides?

The absolute path of file.txt is as you stated above,
C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt, no matter where your .asp file is.
So, file.asp can move anywhere it wants to and that absolute path to
file.txt will remain the same.

So, looks like you are all good!

The relative path to the .txt file is the one that would change. But, since
OpenTextFile can take an absolute path
(http://www.html.dk/dokumentation/vbscript/HTML/vsmthopentextfile.htm), you
should be okay using the path you mentioned above.

---
Jason Bauer
jbauer at chimesnet.com
Programmer/Analyst
Chimes, Inc.




From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Nov 19 10:39:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:39:01 2002
Subject: Server.MapPath WAS Re: [thelist] (no subject)
References: <F39IElR3n4DVvm24Tzm0001cad5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <04a201c28fea$126a22a0$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Williamson" <lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:17 AM


> Is there any way to determine what the abolute path of "file.txt" is from
> where "file1.asp" resides?

Use Server.MapPath(filename).

-joshua



From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Tue Nov 19 10:41:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
Message-ID: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C6869756@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


When developing for an Intranet, I often have a page which is meant to be
viewed as a report.  In such a scenario, would you include a link back to
the page they have just come from or just let the user use their back button
on the browser?

Josh
http://www.efeingold.com


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Tue Nov 19 10:47:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4471@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi Josh,

I think people use the back button in their browser as much as people read
the Bible.

Rob.Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:36 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


When developing for an Intranet, I often have a page which is meant to be
viewed as a report.  In such a scenario, would you include a link back to
the page they have just come from or just let the user use their back button
on the browser?

Josh
http://www.efeingold.com
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Tue Nov 19 10:48:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Tue Nov 19 10:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C52A5@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov]
> Sent: November 19, 2002 11:36 AM

> When developing for an Intranet, I often have a page which is
> meant to be viewed as a report.  In such a scenario, would
> you include a link back to the page they have just come from
> or just let the user use their back button on the browser?

It's courteous, but not necessary. If you are to do it, the best thing
to do is hard-code the link back to the linking pages as opposed to
using Javascript. That way is someone's coming in from another page (or
a bookmark), they can easy access the referring page.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 11:09:08 2002
From: lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com (Jim Williamson)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:09:08 2002
Subject: Server.MapPath WAS Re: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F183YxBFYOs7gWIn37k0001819b@hotmail.com>

Jason,

Thanks for the suggestion.  When I tried using Sever.Mappath it drew the
path from to the directory where the .asp page is located and not to where
the .txt file was so my result was:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file.txt

Instead of:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Williamson" <lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:17 AM


>Is there any way to determine what the abolute path of "file.txt" is from
>where "file1.asp" resides?

Use Server.MapPath(filename).

-joshua

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 11:16:01 2002
From: lakeridge_jim at hotmail.com (Jim Williamson)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:16:01 2002
Subject: Server.MapPath WAS Re: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F170dRpVVR4a4MxB6rb0001231c@hotmail.com>

My apologies.  I meant to type Joshua.  Must be trying to do too many things
at one time.



Jason,

Thanks for the suggestion.  When I tried using Sever.Mappath it drew the
path from to the directory where the .asp page is located and not to where
the .txt file was so my result was:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file.txt

Instead of:

C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 11:22:01 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <F39IElR3n4DVvm24Tzm0001cad5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c28fef$7e2ae010$0400a8c0@webbtech.co.uk>

Jim

> I've been trying to find a way in VB Script to do the following:
>
> I have a file located in the following directory:
>
> C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt
>
> my ASP page is in:
>
> C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file1.asp
>
> I want to open "file.txt" using OpenTextFile.  OpenTextFile
> requires an absolute path to the file.  My "file1.asp" is a
> template so the exact path will change depending on what
> directory the "file1.asp" template is saved to.
>
> Is there any way to determine what the abolute path of
> "file.txt" is from where "file1.asp" resides?

The strict answer is that there is no way to determine the path to file
A from the path to file B with no further information. However, if you
introduce a rule that all text files reside in the same directory as the
.asp file that is opening them, then you could do  something along the
following lines:

Dim sVirtualPath, sPhysicalPath
sVirtualPath = Request.ServerVariables("PATH_INFO")
sVirtualPath = Mid(sVirtualPath, 1, InStrRev(sVirtualPath, "/"))
sPhysicalPath = Server.MapPath(sVirtualPath)

Now you have the virtual and physical paths to the .asp page, thus the
virtual and physical paths to the text file. You can then make any other
changes to the path according to your structural rules.

If however there is no relationship between the location of the text
files and the .asp files; rather the location of the text files is
constant, then:

sPhysicalPath = Server.MapPath("/dir1/subdir1")

will give you the physical path.

HTH

Regards

Chris Marsh




From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 11:22:07 2002
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:22:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] newbie resources
In-Reply-To: <B9FFBAC0.1D28%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>
References: <B9FFBAC0.1D28%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2476427917.20021119172112@web-bitch.co.uk>

On Tuesday, November 19, 2002 at 08:54, Ben Morrison wrote:

>> Just out of interest, if I were learning ASP now, I'd learn ASP.NET, not
>> classic ASP. Why did you chose classic ASP? Is it to be able to work on
>> stuff you've already produced in your office?

BM> didn't even cross my mind come to think of it, I was under the
BM> impression that .NET was just a microsoft marketing tactic.

not really.  asp.net is looking to be a rather good alternative to
whatever language you were using before.  it's primarily available on
windows servers, but there are versions out for linux, freebsd and macos
x.  you have the power of a complete programming language, not the
cut-down versions that asp run on; a choice of languages; compiled code;
proper error handling, etc. etc.  all in all, pretty good
stuff...especially if you're primarily an asp developer.

BM> How does it affect ASP installed on servers etc?

it doesn't.  they can both happily co-exist.

BM> Does it make learning current ASP redundant?

to some degree...but if you have to maintain classic asp code, you need
to know classic asp.  depending on your situation, i'd probably learn
asp.net over asp.classic as .net is a whole lot better, but ymmv.

hth,

darren



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 11:35:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mercury/32
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEPOEDAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEALEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

so no one is using mercury for smtp on a local machine or know anything about
it?

Andrew

-

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002



From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 11:37:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hello everyone.

the issue i'm having is that of returned mail that did not originate
from within our organization. what will happen is that periodically a
user will get a returned mail notice from a remote system stating that
an email they sent could not be delivered. the problem is that these
emails did not actually come from the accused sender.

to make it a litle more clear, i'll create an illustration. a few
minutes ago i was sent an email from another using saying "I did not
send this email!". the subject of the email was "Returned mail--"Mar 13
2002 12". the body of that email message read...

--
From: ourUser at ourDomain.com
To: aDifferentUser at aol.com
Subject: Mar 13 2002 12
The file is the original mail
--

this however did not come from us. more accurately i should say, i'd
like to know how i can verify without a doubt (or as close as possible)
that this email did indeed not originate from within our servers
somewhere. all our servers are patched and use norton anti-virus. and as
far as i've able to verify there are no open relays on the two smtp
servers. those two servers being a website and an exchange 2000 box. the
web server is not apart of the domain. it is a lone box.

what i think is happening is that this email was sent by some infected
computer which also happened to have one of our email addresses
(ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it replaced any
sort of legitimate return address with a random address which just so
happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end system AOL
received the email it assumed it was sent from us because of the fake
return address.

i hope this is true and it makes sense that it might be, but my boss
doesn't really want to accept this simple answer.

i'm at a bit of a loss as to how i can rule out our servers as possible
sources. 1. do we have open relays? no. 2. do we have a virus? according
to norton, no. 3. what else is there? i'm not sure.


thanks a lot for your help.

chris.



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 11:38:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEMEFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

hi,

first off, let me just say that the registrar was transferred last week and
the dns was setup prior to the transfer and waiting for that to go through.
i believe everything has propagated properly, but don't really have any way
of knowing for sure.

that being said, i've got a problem with mail connections from yahoo going
to the wrong box.  it appears as if they're completely ignoring the mx
records and attempting the main domain records instead.  here's a copy and
paste from the dns panel:

Current Records:
Host                           Type   Value                 MX   TTL
*.adultdvdtoday.com            CNAME  thor.jeffhowden.com   N/A  3600
adultdvdtoday.com              CNAME  thor.jeffhowden.com   N/A  3600
adultdvdtoday.com              MX     hm-mx1.solinus.com    5    3600
adultdvdtoday.com              MX     hm-mx2.solinus.com    10   3600
pop.adultdvdtoday.com          CNAME  pop1425.hostmail.com  N/A  3600
wap.webmail.adultdvdtoday.com  CNAME  websw1.solinus.com    N/A  3600
webmail.adultdvdtoday.com      CNAME  websw1.solinus.com    N/A  3600

when i send a test message from yahoo, i eventually get back the following:

<jeff at adultdvdtoday.com>:
Connected to 207.189.150.130 but connection died. (#4.4.2)
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the
queue too long.

unfortunately i know enough about dns to be dangerous, but not enough to
know what's wrong with this setup.  anyone have any ideas?

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov 19 11:51:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
  organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119094712.01d22540@baratta.com>

At 09:36 AM 11/19/2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:

>what i think is happening is that this email was sent by some infected
>computer which also happened to have one of our email addresses
>(ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it replaced any
>sort of legitimate return address with a random address which just so
>happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end system AOL
>received the email it assumed it was sent from us because of the fake
>return address.

You are probably (99%) correct. New trojans change the from address, but
can be tracked if you have the internet headers. Hopefully the returned
email will contain enough of the headers from the original email to track
the real source.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 11:53:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAKEPJLAAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> (ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it replaced any
> sort of legitimate return address with a random address which just so
> happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end
> system AOL
> received the email it assumed it was sent from us because of the fake
> return address.
>
> i hope this is true and it makes sense that it might be, but my boss
> doesn't really want to accept this simple answer.

If it's any consolation I have had emails bounced back to me in exactly
the same circumstance and I'm absolutely certain that I didn't send
them.

I think you're right in suspecting a virus I'd say it's very likely to
be bugbear which is very good at spoofing email addresses.

One way to tell is to look at the original message (after cleaning it)
to see if the text sent matches any of the usual virus suspects.

HTH

Tony



From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 11:58:00 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:58:00 2002
Subject: Server.MapPath WAS Re: [thelist] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <F183YxBFYOs7gWIn37k0001819b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119095607.00aa1c38@popd.ix.netcom.com>

Actually, the usage is Server.MapPath(relativePathToFile).

So in your case, you'd want Server.MapPath("../subdir2/file.txt").

At 12:08 PM 11/19/2002 -0500, Jim Williamson wrote:
>Thanks for the suggestion.  When I tried using Sever.Mappath it drew the
>path from to the directory where the .asp page is located and not to where
>the .txt file was so my result was:
>
>C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir2\file.txt
>
>Instead of:
>
>C:\inetpub\wwwroot\dir1\subdir1\file.txt

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 11:58:06 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:58:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A9@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Crockford [mailto:tonyc at boldfish.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:52 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
> organization
>
>
>
> > (ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it
> replaced any
> > sort of legitimate return address with a random address
> which just so
> > happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end
> > system AOL
> > received the email it assumed it was sent from us because
> of the fake
> > return address.
> >
> > i hope this is true and it makes sense that it might be, but my boss
> > doesn't really want to accept this simple answer.

> I think you're right in suspecting a virus I'd say it's very likely to
> be bugbear which is very good at spoofing email addresses.
>
> One way to tell is to look at the original message (after cleaning it)
> to see if the text sent matches any of the usual virus suspects.

but i don't think we receive the original mail. at least, when i have an
employee forward a mail like that to me and i right-click it and choose
Options to read the headers, they are gone. it's all blank. i think
exchange steals them. (we're using outlook and exchange 2k btw.) is
there any way i can look at the headers of the mail the user received
without going to their desk?


chris.


From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Tue Nov 19 11:59:00 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] newbie resources
In-Reply-To: <B9FFBAC0.1D28%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9FFBB16.2DF59%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/19/02 12:54 AM, Ben Morrison at ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk
wrote:

>
>> Just out of interest, if I were learning ASP now, I'd learn ASP.NET, not
>> classic ASP. Why did you chose classic ASP? Is it to be able to work on
>> stuff you've already produced in your office?
>
> didn't even cross my mind come to think of it, I was under the impression
> that .NET was just a microsoft marketing tactic. How does it affect ASP
> installed on servers etc? Does it make learning current ASP redundant?

There's a lot of hype to .NET, but it is an entirely new set of languages
and ASP.NET is an entirely new app server, one that happily coexists with
classic ASP on Web servers.

In your case, I'd think it would be the new languages that would seal the
deal for you. Classic ASP uses VBScript or Jscript as its (most common)
scripting languages; ASP.NET users VB.NET and C# as its (most common)
scripting languages. Both languages are substantially different from the one
they replace, and the entire method of scripting is changed. So knowledge of
classic ASP only slightly increases the ease with which one learns ASP.NET;
and in fact many old habits have to be relearned.

As was already said on this list, the only real reason to learn classic ASP
is if you're planning to maintain existing code. There's no further
development of the scripting languages or the app server itself, so it's a
dead-end.

Wade




From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Nov 19 11:59:17 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 11:59:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEIMFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hello chris,

:what i think is happening is that this email was sent by some infected
:computer which also happened to have one of our email addresses
:(ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it replaced any
:sort of legitimate return address with a random address which just so
:happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end system AOL
:received the email it assumed it was sent from us because of the fake
:return address.

I want to confirm that I have started receiving such email marked as
*undeliverable* mimicking the exact *look* of a legitimate one... BUT...
there is a *missing* attachment which is my original message if it was a
*real* one.

Right this am again - I received on - with my exact email address but with a
*made up* email address... I think this is either a virus or another *spam*
deception.

What boggles me and drives mad crazy - is that PROGRAMMERS - that perhaps
have grown and learn within our communities... those people who lack
complete moral values - are being PAID - by the porn + spam industries.

Altogether - I run Ad-aware on my machine - and due to the requisite of my
editorial (read having to visit tons of sites) I have *spyware* intrusions
EVERY DAY - I mean it - every freakin' day... This am I lost 2.5 hours
getting rid of XUpiter that installed itself without my knowing. Since last
night - I visited about 200 sites...

I think WE need to do something about this... on how the web was lost!

.c

..web communication design + http://pixeltable.com
...new media culture_magazine + design portal + http://netdiver.net



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Tue Nov 19 12:00:41 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:00:41 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organiz
	ation
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4473@smtmb.tmc.local>

Another venue to think about is that this could be just a marketing firm
using a database of known email address into a template like this:

to: <get_next_known_email_address_from_list_A>
from: <get_next_known_email_address_from_list_B>
Subject: Your Loan Has Been Approved!
Body: <blah blah blah>

I know for certain that programs like SendMail only require a valid email
address with which to send from. But like Anthony said, if all possible
check the email headers. If it continues and you see a particular pattern of
content, just set up a filter.

Rob.Smith


> (ourUser at ourDomain.com). when the virus sent the email it replaced any
> sort of legitimate return address with a random address which just so
> happened to be ourUser at ourDomain.com. therefore when the end
> system AOL
> received the email it assumed it was sent from us because of the fake
> return address.
>
> i hope this is true and it makes sense that it might be, but my boss
> doesn't really want to accept this simple answer.



From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Nov 19 12:05:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A9@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEINFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

btw chris,

the *header* was truncated... meaning there was not the usual stuff from a
*real* returned mail... norton doesn't detect any virus. so I'm very
interested in hearing how to deal with this.

any possibility that an hosting provider would *consent* to such tactics?
how can it be - that spammers are able to *use* the mail server name and
then pollute every active email addresses?

.c




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 12:12:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] database help
Message-ID: <20021119181129.23872.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

In my DB I have a table that stores category fields. Items in another
table each have a categoryID pointing back to that table.

i.e. Table 'food' might have a category of 'color' and some colors
might be red and yellow. The food table has a colorID pointing back
to the color table.

Now, I have to allow my user to manage the categories. If the user
decides he doesn't want red in the categories anymore he deletes it.
Now of course we have trouble, since some of the food items were
pointing to red.

How do I best handle this when the user deletes a category? Do I set
all the red foods to a default value and let them know they changed?
Then they have to go back to each individual one and change them.

Should I bring up a list with all the ones that will change, with a
drop down right there to change it?

Main question, how do I handle it with the SQL ?

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 12:14:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0AA@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: carole guevin [mailto:carole at pixeltable.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:58 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
> organization
>
>
> hello chris,
[snip the whole message /]

hey carole,

excuse me for being lame (and possibly rude), but i have absolutey no
idea what you meant by that email.

are you telling me i should check for spyware? i doubt that's the
problem considering nothing but legitimate(by legitimate i mean,
veritas, microsoft, symantec, etc.) programs get installed on our
servers.

what else was it you were saying about spyware? you visit 200 sites a
night?


chris.



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 12:14:06 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:14:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A9@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJACEPLLAAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> but i don't think we receive the original mail. at least,
> when i have an
> employee forward a mail like that to me and i right-click it
> and choose
> Options to read the headers, they are gone. it's all blank. i think
> exchange steals them. (we're using outlook and exchange 2k btw.) is
> there any way i can look at the headers of the mail the user received
> without going to their desk?

Most likely it's norton cleaning the file - Most of mine were broken in
some way - more evidence that it was a virus.

Have you checked NAV logs for what it's found and cleaned?

That might be enough evidence that the emails are virus generated?



From FrankNtoad at aol.com  Tue Nov 19 12:23:01 2002
From: FrankNtoad at aol.com (FrankNtoad at aol.com)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] database help
Message-ID: <f6.247e5173.2b0bdb6e@aol.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
If I'm reading your question right, it seems to me that the user's query
would read something like SELECT * FROM food WHERE color != 'red';

the column names would be stored as variables, of course
hth,
toad


From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov 19 12:24:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] database help
References: <20021119181129.23872.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01cb01c28ff8$c936fa40$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Now, I have to allow my user to manage the categories. If the user
> decides he doesn't want red in the categories anymore he deletes it.
> Now of course we have trouble, since some of the food items were
> pointing to red.

your choices are to disallow the delete, or to delete all the related
records
automatically as well

most people choose to disallow, forcing the user to delete the related
items individually, before the category can be deleted

perhaps my relational integrity article may help --

  RI to the Rescue!!
  http://evolt.org/article/foo/18/13276/index.html


rudy



From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 12:25:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE5B@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Crockford [mailto:tonyc at boldfish.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:14 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
> organization
>

> Most likely it's norton cleaning the file - Most of mine were
> broken in
> some way - more evidence that it was a virus.

the file was intercepted by norton and had an attachment jxa.exe removed
because it violated a content policy.

i have an extension filter going right now, so norton strips off
attachments with forbidden extensions before it checks for virii. (.exe,
.pif, .scr, .bat, .com, .vbs)

> Have you checked NAV logs for what it's found and cleaned?
>
> That might be enough evidence that the emails are virus generated?

are you suggesting that the email and others like it are not actually
returned mail by a legitimate server but rather a virus email made to
look like returned mail from a legitimate server?


chris.


From prodsol at prodsol.net  Tue Nov 19 12:29:01 2002
From: prodsol at prodsol.net (prodsol at prodsol.net)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAKEPJLAAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
References: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAKEPJLAAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1037725057.3dda6d810ec78@webmail.prodsol.net>

As far as your boss not wanting to accept the simple answer - maybe he'll be
more accepting of it if it comes directly from the Symantec or McAfee Security
Bulletins for Klez, Bugbear, etc. They are very self explanatory and put it in
laymen terms with examples.


> I think you're right in suspecting a virus I'd say it's very likely to
> be bugbear which is very good at spoofing email addresses.


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/


From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Nov 19 12:36:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0AA@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJMEIPFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hey chris,

:excuse me for being lame (and possibly rude), but i have absolutey no
:idea what you meant by that email.

no offense. what I'm saying that on top of those freakin' spam scams, trojan
viruses there is also spyware (back entry software) that can get installed
without you knowing... only by surfing to a site like msn for example...

there is a small mini-download to make on Lavasoft -
http://www.lavasoft.de - called Ad_search... and you would be surprised of
which software actually are spyware. if one of the persons in your company
visited a site that is waiting to  drop backweb soft - it's an entry door.

so the point altogether - is that I'm really upset about all the crap going
on out there as one who uses the net extensively.
.c



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 12:39:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE5B@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAAEPPLAAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> are you suggesting that the email and others like it are not actually
> returned mail by a legitimate server but rather a virus email made to
> look like returned mail from a legitimate server?

Yes

Klez (not bugbear) actually does that and includes the line from your
first mail as a subject:

"The file is the ------- mail" (marked out in case the list server Av
picks it up!

see:

http://www.antivirus-online.de/english/news020301.php

I think that will probably clinch it for you

;o)

HTH

Tony



From john at userfrenzy.com  Tue Nov 19 12:43:01 2002
From: john at userfrenzy.com (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEMEFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEMEFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1037730663.3642.19.camel@fidel>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 17:36, .jeff wrote:
> hi,
>
> Current Records:
> Host                           Type   Value                 MX   TTL
> *.adultdvdtoday.com            CNAME  thor.jeffhowden.com   N/A  3600
> adultdvdtoday.com              CNAME  thor.jeffhowden.com   N/A  3600
> adultdvdtoday.com              MX     hm-mx1.solinus.com    5    3600
> adultdvdtoday.com              MX     hm-mx2.solinus.com    10   3600
> pop.adultdvdtoday.com          CNAME  pop1425.hostmail.com  N/A  3600
> wap.webmail.adultdvdtoday.com  CNAME  websw1.solinus.com    N/A  3600
> webmail.adultdvdtoday.com      CNAME  websw1.solinus.com    N/A  3600

Answering questions with questions to begin with:

1)  You know that the domain's time-to-expire is 24 hours?
    If you made a change today it may not have propogated yet

2)  My DNS kungfu isn't 100% either but I'd usually put a
    priority of 0 (not 5) on my first-choice MX record

Incidentally, it's not just Yahoo - I'm getting MX resolving
to thor.jeffhowden.com as a CNAME as well (tried from 2
locations).

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 12:45:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] database help
In-Reply-To: <01cb01c28ff8$c936fa40$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021119184407.80495.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:

> your choices are to disallow the delete, or to delete all the
> related
> records
> automatically as well
>
> most people choose to disallow, forcing the user to delete the
> related
> items individually, before the category can be deleted
>
> perhaps my relational integrity article may help --
>
>   RI to the Rescue!!
>   http://evolt.org/article/foo/18/13276/index.html

Ahh that makes perfect sense. I will read the article, thanks!

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 12:45:07 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:45:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0AE@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: carole guevin [mailto:carole at pixeltable.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:35 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
> organization
>
>
> hey chris,
>
> :excuse me for being lame (and possibly rude), but i have absolutey no
> :idea what you meant by that email.
>
> no offense. what I'm saying that on top of those freakin'
> spam scams, trojan
> viruses there is also spyware (back entry software) that can
> get installed
> without you knowing... only by surfing to a site like msn for
> example...

i've never used ad_search but i have used ad_aware. do these programs
not need permission to be installed? i would assume that any program
requires some sort of permission right?

> there is a small mini-download to make on Lavasoft -
> http://www.lavasoft.de - called Ad_search... and you would be
> surprised of
> which software actually are spyware. if one of the persons in
> your company
> visited a site that is waiting to  drop backweb soft - it's
> an entry door.

i will try it out and see what happens.

> so the point altogether - is that I'm really upset about all
> the crap going
> on out there as one who uses the net extensively.

i get it now. i am in agreement with your concern. ;)


thanks,
chris.


From evolt at marsorange.com  Tue Nov 19 12:54:00 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Tue Nov 19 12:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEMEFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <32E8D573-FBF0-11D6-86C9-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Tuesday, Nov 19, 2002, at 11:36 US/Central, .jeff wrote:
> first off, let me just say that the registrar was transferred last
> week and
> the dns was setup prior to the transfer and waiting for that to go
> through.
> i believe everything has propagated properly, but don't really have
> any way
> of knowing for sure.
......SNIP......
> unfortunately i know enough about dns to be dangerous, but not enough
> to
> know what's wrong with this setup.  anyone have any ideas?


An Internic Whois Look-up returns:
-----------------------------------
    Domain Name: ADULTDVDTODAY.COM
    Registrar: GANDI
    Whois Server: whois.gandi.net
    Referral URL: http://www.gandi.net
    Name Server: NS1.EVERYDNS.NET
    Name Server: NS2.EVERYDNS.NET
    Updated Date: 16-nov-2002


A local nslookup for the MX record returns:
---------------------------------------------
Non-authoritative answer:
adultdvdtoday.com       canonical name = thor.jeffhowden.com

Authoritative answers can be found from:
jeffhowden.com
         origin = dns1.alphashop.com
         mail addr = administrator.alphashop.com
         serial = 70
         refresh = 900 (15M)
         retry   = 600 (10M)
         expire  = 86400 (1D)
         minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)


Since the Whois record says that it was updated just three days ago (I
assume that was switching your DNS from alphashop.com to EVERYDNS.NET),
it looks to me like you just haven't given your new DNS settings time
to propagate.

Switching registrars and switching DNS servers are completely different
processes. Registrars are where the "domain ownership" records reside;
DNS servers are where the name-to-ipaddress mappings and such (the zone
files) reside.

Always expect DNS zone changes to take up to a full week to propagate!

Mars :)



From notabene at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 13:03:01 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org>

rudy wrote:
> if i want to use an include, i go "include navbar.txt"
>
> if i want to use a class, i say "dance, nav bar, dance" and go
> "navbar.show()"
>
> i still don't see the difference, but boy oh boy, i do hope they ask me this
> on my next job interview

Here's a practical example I had to do a few days ago:

A nice menu was to be created. This menu incorporated multi-level nested
divs. I won't write here a succession of nest-upon-nest-upon-nest. This
menu was dhtml-driven, so each sub-div should show/hide through a
manipulation of its display properties, right?

And this div should check if its parent is displayed, and if not display
it. Thus the code becomes bloated with "onclick" statements all around.
Yeah I know in pure DOM you can grab events, but hey, it's for the sake
of explanation, right?

If I had to write it in pure HTML, every new div added would have been a
headache: how do I keep count of the id of each div, of each of its
parents, where does that div end again, etc.

You see the problem so far rudy?

With PHP-OO capabilities (although rudimentary), you can externalize the
whole menu constructor in an include. This include contains a class,
Menu, and functions (the methods of this class, to compare it to any
other OO-based language).

Thus my menus can be edited by almost anyone in my team without much
hassle. The menu goes :

$menu = new Menu( ... here I pass the menu's name, classes, whatever ...);

$menu->addLink("text","url");
[repeat as many times as needed]

$menu->addSubMenu("this is my first submenu",["optional URL"]);
   $menu->addLink("text,"url");
   $menu->addSubMenu("this menu is nested inside the first submenu",[]);
     $menu->addLink("text","url");
     $menu->addSubMenu("this one is 3-lvl deep");
       $menu->addLink("text","url");
       $menu->addLink("text","url");
     $menu->closeSubMenu();
     $menu->addLink("yet aonther link","url");
   $menu->closeSubMenu();
   $menu->addLink("bla","url");
   $menu->addSubMenu("this one is at level 2",[]);
     $menu->addLink("text","url");
   $menu->closeSubMenu();
   $menu->addLink("bla","url");
$menu->closeSubMenu();

$menu->addSubMenu("level-one submenu",["optional URL"]);
   $menu->addLink("text,"url");
   $menu->addLink("text,"url");
$menu->closeSubMenu();

$menu->printToBrowser();

Still bearing with me rudy?

What you read above is much, much clearer than plain HTML (obviously
maintenance comes to mind), and enables me to _externalize_ all the
final formatting, be it the <div></div> thing or the <a href>'ing or not
of a submenu's title, but also counting automatically so that each new
div created gets a unique id made up of the menu's name PLUS the
counter. Less maintenance hassle.

Plus you could then very easily plug an SQL recursive query that would
populate the menus/submenus directly with this object, because its
methods are simple to write out.

I'll bring it back from work and put it online so that you can see the
benefits of objects in this case.

Is it clearer rudy? Do you see the advantages?



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov 19 13:06:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Is it clearer rudy?

yes, thanks

> Do you see the advantages?

no


rudy



From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Nov 19 13:13:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE5B@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJEEJDFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

:are you suggesting that the email and others like it are not actually
:returned mail by a legitimate server but rather a virus email made to
:look like returned mail from a legitimate server?

that's how I see it from those I have received... but were not intercepted
by norton. the headers were cutoff, my email was legit but the *other* mail
which would be the sender was a *deformation* of my email...

a *real* returned mail - has 2 attachments - one is your *initial* mail and
a text with complete header information.

.c




From RRippamonti at jenkens.com  Tue Nov 19 13:23:01 2002
From: RRippamonti at jenkens.com (Rippamonti, Russell N.)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Browser on Fuel Dispenser (gas pump)
Message-ID: <4D18C28A8024D511B71B0002A55115BF0234865A@dalexch5.jenkens.com>

I am looking for any information about any know usage of an internet browser
on a fuel dispenser prior to October 1996.  Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks

Rusty


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to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3)
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this
message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information.
If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender
(only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a
violation of federal criminal law.

  This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the
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by electronic means.  Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment
shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein
shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic
Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic
transactions.




From notabene at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 13:23:07 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:23:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org>

rudy a ?crit:
>>Do you see the advantages?
>
> no

Ease of maintenance, scalability, database "plugability"? No?

--
s t e f
http://nota-bene.org



From john at evolt.org.uk  Tue Nov 19 13:27:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <1037730663.3642.19.camel@fidel>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEMEFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> 
	<1037730663.3642.19.camel@fidel>
Message-ID: <1037734007.4801.2.camel@fidel>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 18:31, John Handelaar wrote:
> 2)  My DNS kungfu isn't 100% either

But GANDI's is.  And they just told me (while I was
sorting out a different domain) that you can't
have an MX record for something which is itself a
CNAME.

Change your entry for the root domain from a CNAME
to an A record and all should be well.

hth

--
------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov 19 13:35:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001f01c29002$aabc59c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Ease of maintenance, scalability, database "plugability"? No?

no, sorry

code complexity, difficult maintenance

but that's just my reaction to your sample code, and not an indictment
of object programming in general

my menu items come out of the database, so i don't understand why
i would then have to build them into objects

rudy



From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Nov 19 13:40:00 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0AE@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIEJEFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi again,

:i've never used ad_search but i have used ad_aware. do these programs
:not need permission to be installed? i would assume that any program
:requires some sort of permission right?

NO_NO_NO permission required! That is why it is often referred to as
*backweb* soft... it installs without your consent... and is not detectable
in your *add/remove* programs because they alter the registry and drop a
.dll and voila...

The ad-search is a mini-search box - you need to only drop the name of any
software you want to install.
.c



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 13:41:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:41:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <001f01c29002$aabc59c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021119194013.79223.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:

> my menu items come out of the database, so i don't understand why
> i would then have to build them into objects
>
> rudy

You know this  might be the crux of the issue I was after in my
original post. It's relatively simple to pull data out of a DB and
pop it into a page, even on multiple pages. It has very little
overhead. Now, instead, I could take the extra time to write an
object for it. I understand what an object does and how it works, but
like some others I'm still not seeing a real added value.

I've done some work with JSPs before. Now when you are talking about
java and JSP and servlets - I understand the value. Because code is
compiled and then served much quicker (java beans and stuff) than
interpreted code.

I don't see that advantage here in PHP. Is this making sense?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 13:42:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <1037730663.3642.19.camel@fidel>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Handelaar
>
> 1)  You know that the domain's time-to-expire is 24
>     hours? If you made a change today it may not have
>     propogated yet
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

Yes, 3600 seemed a might better than 86400.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 2)  My DNS kungfu isn't 100% either but I'd usually put
>     a priority of 0 (not 5) on my first-choice MX record
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

those priorities were provided to me by the email host.  i suspect they
wanted me to put in 5 so that the mail server from the previous host would
take precedent until the propagation of dns took effect.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Incidentally, it's not just Yahoo - I'm getting MX
> resolving to thor.jeffhowden.com as a CNAME as well
> (tried from 2 locations).
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

as i'm always looking to expand my arsenal of troubleshooting tools, i must
ask if you'd be willing to share some info on how you did that?

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 13:43:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <1037734007.4801.2.camel@fidel>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLGENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Handelaar
>
> On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 18:31, John Handelaar wrote:
> > 2)  My DNS kungfu isn't 100% either
>
> But GANDI's is.  And they just told me (while I was
> sorting out a different domain) that you can't
> have an MX record for something which is itself a
> CNAME.
>
> Change your entry for the root domain from a CNAME
> to an A record and all should be well.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

omg, that's not what i wanted to hear.  i prefer using a cname since that
means if my ip block changes (ip re-addressing, moving hosts, etc) i just
update the a record for thor.jeffhowden.com and all the domains that are on
that box get updated as well.  grrrrr.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From boris at bmannconsulting.com  Tue Nov 19 13:45:00 2002
From: boris at bmannconsulting.com (Boris Mann)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:45:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <001f01c29002$aabc59c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <52D26324-FBF7-11D6-9721-000393703A62@bmannconsulting.com>

Here is a link to a tutorial on PHP OOP that I found really useful:

http://www.liquidpulse.net/articles/125

And, it combines storing information in a database with encapsulating
complex code, and ends up showing some examples of using OOP in PHP to
design clean, maintainable code.

--
Boris Mann
http://www.bmannconsulting.com

On Tuesday, November 19, 2002, at 02:34 PM, rudy wrote:

>> Ease of maintenance, scalability, database "plugability"? No?
>
> no, sorry
>
> code complexity, difficult maintenance
>
> but that's just my reaction to your sample code, and not an indictment
> of object programming in general
>
> my menu items come out of the database, so i don't understand why
> i would then have to build them into objects
>
> rudy



From john at evolt.org.uk  Tue Nov 19 13:51:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1037735421.4828.5.camel@fidel>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 19:40, .jeff wrote:
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > Incidentally, it's not just Yahoo - I'm getting MX
> > resolving to thor.jeffhowden.com as a CNAME as well
> > (tried from 2 locations).
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> as i'm always looking to expand my arsenal of troubleshooting tools, i must
> ask if you'd be willing to share some info on how you did that?

>From what I already know to be your OS of choice >:-)

nslookup

> set type=mx
> domain.com
> exit

--
------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 13:52:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 19 13:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <32E8D573-FBF0-11D6-86C9-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLKENDFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

mars,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: MarsHall
>
> An Internic Whois Look-up returns:
> -----------------------------------
>     Domain Name: ADULTDVDTODAY.COM
>     Registrar: GANDI
>     Whois Server: whois.gandi.net
>     Referral URL: http://www.gandi.net
>     Name Server: NS1.EVERYDNS.NET
>     Name Server: NS2.EVERYDNS.NET
>     Updated Date: 16-nov-2002
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

that's correct.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> A local nslookup for the MX record returns:
> ---------------------------------------------
> Non-authoritative answer:
> adultdvdtoday.com       canonical name = thor.jeffhowden.com
>
> Authoritative answers can be found from:
> jeffhowden.com
>          origin = dns1.alphashop.com
>          mail addr = administrator.alphashop.com
>          serial = 70
>          refresh = 900 (15M)
>          retry   = 600 (10M)
>          expire  = 86400 (1D)
>          minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)
>
> Since the Whois record says that it was updated just
> three days ago (I assume that was switching your DNS
> from alphashop.com to EVERYDNS.NET), it looks to me
> like you just haven't given your new DNS settings time
> to propagate.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

actually, we switched 1 of the 4 domains from hostcentric and the other 3
from adhost (there are 3 others that are different spellings and .net
variations of the one i posted about).  jeffhowden.com's dns still sits at
alphashop.com because i've been too lazy to move it yet.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Switching registrars and switching DNS servers are
> completely different processes. Registrars are where
> the "domain ownership" records reside; DNS servers are
> where the name-to-ipaddress mappings and such (the zone
> files) reside.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i know they're different processes.  but, before the registrar change had
propagated i went in and made nameserver changes as well.  i already had dns
setup for the 4 domains on the new nameserver so i would hope it'd already
have propagated.  otherwise, why would all these bounce errors be trying to
connect to thor.jeffhowden.com?  that tells me it's already propagated, but
somehow not setup properly.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Always expect DNS zone changes to take up to a full
> week to propagate!
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

using cnames i've found that i can move my entire box and have dns updated
for all domains on that box in no more than an hour.  however, it seems that
the use of cnames is also causing some problems.

i guess it's time to read a book on dns.  anyone have any recommendations?

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From john at evolt.org.uk  Tue Nov 19 14:00:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLGENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLGENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <1037735951.4826.8.camel@fidel>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 19:41, .jeff wrote:
> john,
>
> > But GANDI's is.  And they just told me (while I was
> > sorting out a different domain) that you can't
> > have an MX record for something which is itself a
> > CNAME.
> >
> > Change your entry for the root domain from a CNAME
> > to an A record and all should be well.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> omg, that's not what i wanted to hear.  i prefer using a cname since that
> means if my ip block changes (ip re-addressing, moving hosts, etc) i just
> update the a record for thor.jeffhowden.com and all the domains that are on
> that box get updated as well.  grrrrr.

If it's any consolation, and providing that the MX record
points to adultdvdtoday.com, as do all the subdomains as
CNAME records, then changing only the A record for
adultdvdtoday.com would have the same effect for that
entire domain.


--
------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------




From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Tue Nov 19 14:05:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mercury/32
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEALEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002e01c29006$e93c4580$0100a8c0@OFFICE>

Hi Andrew,

Actually I am using it on a Win2K workstation. Contact me off list if
you like.

Bob

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov 19 14:07:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
In-Reply-To: <1037735951.4826.8.camel@fidel>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLEENGFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Handelaar
>
> > omg, that's not what i wanted to hear.  i prefer using
> > a cname since that means if my ip block changes (ip
> > re-addressing, moving hosts, etc) i just update the a
> > record for thor.jeffhowden.com and all the domains that
> > are on that box get updated as well.  grrrrr.
>
> If it's any consolation, and providing that the MX record
> points to adultdvdtoday.com, as do all the subdomains as
> CNAME records, then changing only the A record for
> adultdvdtoday.com would have the same effect for that
> entire domain.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

what if jeffhowden.com had an mx record that matched this domain?  would it
then resolve correctly?  or, is it simply going to try to connect to
thor.jeffhowden.com?

i'm really reluctant to go changing from cname's for the domains i host on
that box cause that means multiple domains to edit if the ip of the box were
to change for some reason (it's not in the most permanent location
currently).

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From evolt at marsorange.com  Tue Nov 19 14:13:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <20021119194013.79223.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4758F8BB-FBFB-11D6-86C9-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Tuesday, Nov 19, 2002, at 13:40 US/Central, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> You know this  might be the crux of the issue I was after in my
> original post. It's relatively simple to pull data out of a DB and
> pop it into a page, even on multiple pages. It has very little
> overhead.

It has been said before, I believe, but just to re-iterate:

Web Pages are a VERY different sandbox than traditional application
programming (Pascal, C, Lisp...).

Includes can do amazing tricks for Web programmers, which would be
practically unthinkable in those more traditional applications. Hence
the reality of Server-Side Includes without any encapsulating
programming language!

The suggestion, in response to the original post, of moving to an
object-oriented methodology in the first place was perhaps *a bit*
off-topic!

Mars :)



From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Nov 19 14:14:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021119194013.79223.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DDA9D50.60905@macrovista.net>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> --- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
>>my menu items come out of the database, so i don't understand why
>>i would then have to build them into objects

>
> You know this  might be the crux of the issue I was after in my
> original post. It's relatively simple to pull data out of a DB and
> pop it into a page, even on multiple pages. It has very little
> overhead. Now, instead, I could take the extra time to write an
> object for it. I understand what an object does and how it works, but
> like some others I'm still not seeing a real added value.

Let me first say I am a big fan of OO Development in general. I have
"seen the light" in a large-scale networked simulation I worked on a
couple years ago in a team of 4 folks, and we were only one team among
6.  The things I saw done in Java were inspiring. Because of that
project JavaDoc is my close friend.

On the other hand, I have worked with jsp and java servelets, and seen
several more.  I was unimpressed.  The following is an excerpt from my
off-list reply to rudy (trying to explain the difference between using
includes and using classes) which agrees with Tom and Rudy's position:

/Thanks to SQL, I have a useful 'object' already.  I call it a row.  I
get one or more of these 'objects,' all instances of a 'class' / data
structure I specified, and can manipulate these instances individually,
or en-masse, using whatever qualifiers I want.  I can find a row in the
states table where name='Oregon' more easily than I can search the
structure of state-objects for the state-object where
state.name=='Oregon' which means that OO would be less efficient./

/SQL is also far more powerful than the traditional OO methodology, but
then again in the traditional OO methodology you don't frequently need
to manipulate all objects WHERE birthday BETWEEN today() AND
dateadd(month, 1, today())./

/Encapsulation is about having well defined methods of working with
individual objects.  How often do you do that in web-apps?  I don't do
it very often, that is for sure./

--Steve



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 14:23:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mercury/32
In-Reply-To: <002e01c29006$e93c4580$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBGEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Thank you Bob

I have installed Mercury/32 and it kicks out an error!  I had postcast server
running without any problems but it wasn't doing what I wanted it too.

Mercury is doing the opposite


It appears messages are entering int Mercury but do not get sent.

Is there something I missed on install?

The program is here C:\MERCURY

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bob Haroche
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 20:05
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Mercury/32


Hi Andrew,

Actually I am using it on a Win2K workstation. Contact me off list if
you like.

Bob

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com

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Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Tue Nov 19 14:36:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mercury/32
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBGEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <005a01c2900b$30dc2910$0100a8c0@OFFICE>

> Is there something I missed on install?

I wouldn't think so. You might be missing some setting in the Core
Module or SMTP Module configuration. When you try to send mail, look
at the SMTP Server status/process window for error messages. What are
they? It could me anything from not recognizing the IP you set to not
accepting mail from an un-authorized domain/sender.

I'd also disable your firewall while you're trying to get this to work
to eliminate that variable.

Bob

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From evolt at goonies.info  Tue Nov 19 14:56:00 2002
From: evolt at goonies.info (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Tue Nov 19 14:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX training
Message-ID: <003301c2900d$38bab550$1582d889@sdstate.edu>

It's been a long time since I've taken "Advanced CF 5 Development." In
looking through the course material for the MX equivalents of this class and
its prerequisite, the FastTrack class, the material covers mostly the basic
material.

Are there any classes that focuses on CFMX in relation to CF5? I'd like to
learn the differences without having to relearn CFML. Thanks.


http://www.goonies.info/
Not the film. The family.



From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Tue Nov 19 15:18:00 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russ)
Date: Tue Nov 19 15:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Lindows &/or Mandrake
In-Reply-To: <005a01c2900b$30dc2910$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <005d01c29011$380f5d50$1503a8c0@autolycus>

All,

I'm finding myself in an odd predicament--I've just purchased my first
ever Lindows box, and intend to make it dual boot with Mandrake.

I'm very, very much a newbie, but have purpose for the machine.  Due
space considerations, I really need to have a WLAN card in the box, and
I'm having a really hard time finding something that could work (and
something that I could preferably pick-up retail).

Does anyone have any experience with this?  I've been searching through
pages of German sites trying to find an answer...

Thanks!

Russ

Russ Unger
Managing Partner
blueChrome design, LLC
www.bluechromedesign.com
312.593.4260 :office
877.433.8427 :pager
312.873.4033 :fax



From p+evolt at redbrick.dcu.ie  Tue Nov 19 15:23:01 2002
From: p+evolt at redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 15:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] News Paper CMS
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>; from mattmacleod12@yahoo.co.uk on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 03:49:46PM +0000
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021119212221.A740@prodigy.Redbrick.DCU.IE>

Hi all,

Does anyone know any nice CMSes, Perl or PHP
that would be suitable for using in a news paper style manner.

e.g. you have different areas, different prioities, and you can link to these
areas respectively.

I knwo alot of blogging programs do that but I havn't found any that really do
the job well.

I'm looking for one that would be free, or have an academic license.

Thanks,

- Kevin


From ray at camdenfamily.com  Tue Nov 19 15:34:01 2002
From: ray at camdenfamily.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Nov 19 15:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX training
In-Reply-To: <003301c2900d$38bab550$1582d889@sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <00d701c29013$549207f0$6461a8c0@vader>

I don't believe we offer a class that _just_ covers the differences. If
you are already an experienced developer, I'd suggest simply reading the
docs that come w/ MX. We do cover compat issues.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : ray at camdenfamily.com
WWW      : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Minh Lee Goon
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 3:49 PM
> To: Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX training
>
>
> It's been a long time since I've taken "Advanced CF 5 Development." In
> looking through the course material for the MX equivalents of
> this class and
> its prerequisite, the FastTrack class, the material covers
> mostly the basic
> material.
>
> Are there any classes that focuses on CFMX in relation to
> CF5? I'd like to
> learn the differences without having to relearn CFML. Thanks.
>
>
http://www.goonies.info/
Not the film. The family.

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Liorean at user.bip.net  Tue Nov 19 16:05:00 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:05:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScripting in opera7 beta
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021119224759.00b2dc98@pop3.bip.net>

Hello, fellow evolters!

I've seen a few people complain about Opera 7 beta not throwing errors.
People did complain about that when nn4 came too, and some people coming
from ie complains about that in moz as well. Well, if you turn on the
javascript error reporting in your preferences, you'll find that opera has
done the same thing as netscape did back then - they removed the error
messages from joe sixpack's view and moved them to a specific console. The
console can be brought up from Window:Special:JavaScript console.

As for the console, it's great. The information provided by it is far more
informative than the netscape/mozilla console (!), and will be an excellent
tool for developing scripts in the future. The scripting engine is still
far slower than both moz and ie, and it lacks a dom inspector and JS
debugger, but otherwise, opera has become a very good platform for
developing JavaScripts.


Mozilla, beware! This might be a stronger competitor than ie...

// Liorean



From lauri_lists at tharapita.com  Tue Nov 19 16:13:01 2002
From: lauri_lists at tharapita.com (Lauri Vain)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] WAP sites & services
Message-ID: <000101c29018$b15e0920$0201a8c0@tharapita>

Hello there,

I would like to request help from fellow evolters.

As part of a sponsoring contract (the biggest contract we have had for
the past several years and will have for years to come -- it IS big),
the company I work in, also promised to assist the basketball
organization that we support them in development of their mobile portal
in addition to the monetary side.

It will be SMS based (as a 'push service') and WAP based. Has anybody
used or seen WAP based calendars / forums / BBS's etc? Any other useful
services or fun games?

Could anybody point me to some direction -- URL's or directions would be
great!

Thanks in advance,
Lauri



From luomat at peak.org  Tue Nov 19 16:16:01 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScripting in opera7 beta
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20021119224759.00b2dc98@pop3.bip.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191414340.32171-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Liorean wrote:

> I've seen a few people complain about Opera 7 beta not throwing errors.
> People did complain about that when nn4 came too, and some people coming
> from ie complains about that in moz as well. Well, if you turn on the
> javascript error reporting in your preferences, you'll find that opera has
> done the same thing as netscape did back then - they removed the error
> messages from joe sixpack's view and moved them to a specific console. The
> console can be brought up from Window:Special:JavaScript console.

Also available via the Opera menu at

	Windows > Special > JavaScript Console



> Mozilla, beware! This might be a stronger competitor than ie...

Opera has always been a stronger competitor than IE.... if the UI for Moz
even gets more fully developed, Moz may one day be a competitor to Opera
:-)

TjL
lobbing a holy war hand grenade and running away chuckling




From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Nov 19 16:24:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] seeking book recommendations: XML XSLT XPath...
Message-ID: <3DDABBB2.1010404@macrovista.net>

I am looking for a recommendation or two for books dealing with these
topics.  In particular, I want to see some useful case studies (not toy
examples) for and against use of them at different times.  I want to see
interesting and creative ways to solve problems with the help of these
tools (presumably in conjunction with intense DB usage) as well as an
exploration of off-the-web application, and legacy system integration.

Very importantly, *The book should not be a sales pitch for .NET*

Thus far the best thing I have been able to find is a book titled
_*Essential XML Quick Reference: A Programmer's Reference to XML, XPath,
XSLT, XML Schema, SOAP, and More_*
by Aaron Skonnard
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Skonnard%2C%20Aaron/102-7297234-9383312>,
Martin Gudgin
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Gudgin%2C%20Martin/102-7297234-9383312>

This book is little more than a 'reference' but I understand it is well
written enough to provide more clarity to these topics which may aid me
in meditating on the Dao of  Problem Solving.  Anyone confirm or deny
the value of this book?  Anyone have other recommendations?

--Steve



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Tue Nov 19 16:33:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScripting in opera7 beta
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191414340.32171-100000@localhost.localdo
 main>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021119224759.00b2dc98@pop3.bip.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021119231923.00b2dc98@pop3.bip.net>

At 14:17 2002-11-19 -0800, Tim Luoma wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Liorean wrote:
>>The console can be brought up from Window:Special:JavaScript console.
>Also available via the Opera menu at
>         Windows > Special > JavaScript Console

Wasn't that what I said? I just used : instead of >

I'd prefer it to be reached in an easier way - it's a useful tool...
In fact, this would be an excellent thing to put on the F12 menu.

> > Mozilla, beware! This might be a stronger competitor than ie...
>Opera has always been a stronger competitor than IE.... if the UI for Moz
>even gets more fully developed, Moz may one day be a competitor to Opera

Well, now I was talking JavaScript development, where Opera has never
really had a foot in the competition before.

Because of the type of people using opera and mozilla (mostly devs and
techies), they're natural competitors on other planes, while ie really isn't.

>TjL
>lobbing a holy war hand grenade and running away chuckling

Watch it - those can explode!

<person name="Liorean">
   <action type="run" to="safe distance"/>
</person>

// Liorean



From paul at teltest.com  Tue Nov 19 16:46:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] WAP sites & services
References: <000101c29018$b15e0920$0201a8c0@tharapita>
Message-ID: <3DDABF95.1050702@teltest.com>


Lauri Vain wrote:

>Hello there,
>
>It will be SMS based (as a 'push service')
>
Opensource SMS programs / server modules
http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=sms

> and WAP based. Has anybody
>used or seen WAP based calendars / forums / BBS's etc? Any other useful
>services or fun games
>
Mobone has a great directory of wap sites and games:
http://www.mobone.com/dir/category.html?c=2

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From nepolon at worlddomination.net  Tue Nov 19 16:48:01 2002
From: nepolon at worlddomination.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] seeking book recommendation for topics: XML XSLT XPath...
Message-ID: <3DDAB551.4030604@worlddomination.net>

I am looking for a recommendation or two for books dealing with these
topics.  In particular, I want to see some useful case studies (not toy
examples) for and against use of them at different times.  I want to see
interesting and creative ways to solve problems with the help of these
tools (presumably in conjunction with intense DB usage) as well as an
exploration of off-the-web application, and legacy system integration.

Very importantly, *The book should not be a sales pitch for .NET*

Thus far the best thing I have been able to find is a book titled
 _*Essential XML Quick Reference: A Programmer's Reference to XML,
XPath, XSLT, XML Schema, SOAP, and More_*
by Aaron Skonnard
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Skonnard%2C%20Aaron/102-7297234-9383312>,
Martin Gudgin
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Gudgin%2C%20Martin/102-7297234-9383312>

This book is little more than a 'reference' but I understand it is well
written enough to provide more clarity to these topics which may aid me
in meditating on the Dao of  Problem Solving.  Anyone confirm or deny
the value of this book?  Anyone have other recommendations?

--Steve



From jyee at vt.edu  Tue Nov 19 16:54:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_gzip
References: <3DD90256.CE1168FB@lds.com> <D3F53110-FB12-11D6-AC08-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <3ddac302@fuseware.com>

"MarsHall" <evolt at marsorange.com> wrote in message
news:D3F53110-FB12-11D6-AC08-00306546A128 at marsorange.com...
> --- proxy/cache issues --- Apparently, some proxies and caches (that
> read actual HTML content such as meta-tags) do not play well with
> gzip-compressed HTTP content. I am left wondering if those devices
> would munge the page, drop the connection or throw an error?

I tried running mod_gzip on my own server, and had to give up on it because
some of my friends were getting blank page loads where no content was given
at all.  A simple refresh would load the page correctly, but it was enough
of a hassle that I disabled mod_gzip.

And then again, I've heard plenty of people praising mod_gzip for cutting
down their bandwidth (and thus costs) without any problems, so it might be
one of those "try it yourself and see how it performs on your system"
issues.  You can disable it with one line in your httpd.conf or .htaccess
file, so configuration shouldn't be a big issue.

--
Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/




From paul at teltest.com  Tue Nov 19 16:54:07 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue Nov 19 16:54:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] [evolt] Server Space
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPKECJHDAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3DDAC17F.5090504@teltest.com>

Jeff, A couple of weeks ago I applied for server space at evolt.org. The
reason was I wanted to dabble in Coldfusion and expand my (limited)
knowledge of ASP.
I haven't received any reply, how do I know whether my application has
been successful?
My username on evolt is: bennettpr
Thanks in advance,

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From jyee at vt.edu  Tue Nov 19 17:01:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Tue Nov 19 17:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php design question
References: <20021118220526.49048.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <004001c28f4f$d13b54b0$2532fc80@pravda> <3DD96E3A.70404@macrovista.net>  <001f01c28f56$5139d820$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <3ddac543@fuseware.com>

"David U." <davidu at everydns.net> wrote in message
news:001f01c28f56$5139d820$2532fc80 at pravda...
> You're kind of right.  I specifically didn't mention the words "object
> oriented" in my post.  PHP does not *yet* have a way to create totally OO
> code.  Things like private variables, scope, etc are not yet functional.
It
> does have inheritance and lots of other goodies though which make it
almost
> a pleasure to work with -- certainly better than writing large
applications
> of monolithic code. (been there done that)  Additionally, almost all of
the
> benefits of code reuse and flexibility are there right now; TODAY.

PHP 5 will have support for such features, as I've been drooling over the
features list for exception handling, inheritance, and other things for a
while now.

As far as using OO with PHP goes, use it if you're comfortable with it;
don't use it if you can write better code using functions.  I'm too much of
a C++ programmer not to use encapsulation or inheritance in my code, and the
entire forums section is handled in three lines of PHP - instantiating the
object, setting options on the object, and writing the object out.   Someone
else might find it easier to write a monolithic function to do everything.
That's their choice.  Even great designs can end up in horrible code if you
assign a horrible coder to implement it.

--
Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/




From jyee at vt.edu  Tue Nov 19 17:07:00 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Tue Nov 19 17:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
References: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C6869756@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <3ddac67c$1@fuseware.com>

"Feingold Josh S" <Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov> wrote in message
news:40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C6869756 at chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov...
> When developing for an Intranet, I often have a page which is meant to be
> viewed as a report.  In such a scenario, would you include a link back to
> the page they have just come from or just let the user use their back
button
> on the browser?

As Craig said, there's no harm in including a back link.  Before I got my
IntelliMouse Optical with the two side buttons which go back and forth, I
found back links extremely convenient when placed at the bottom of a page,
as I didn't have to move my mouse all of the way up to the toolbar in order
to go back to the previous page.

Also, people who are inexperienced with computers will function *extremely*
better if a back link is at the end of their reading.  As blind as users can
be, they are quite attracted to large blue arrows which say "back",
"previous," or "next" at the end of web pages.  It's only one more page
element, so why not make everyone happy?

--
Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/




From paul at teltest.com  Tue Nov 19 17:08:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue Nov 19 17:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] tip payment for writing to the whole list instead of
 just to .jeff!
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPKECJHDAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3DDAC4A2.2010303@teltest.com>

Apologies for my Homer Simpson moment there.
*embarassed* Ahem, perhaps a tip is in order.

<tip type="php" author="Paul Bennett">
If you are designing database-driven sites, one handy tool is a template class
which allows you to plug different page values into the same site layout, thus completely seperating
structure, layout, and data.
One that has worked well for me is "PatTemplate"
from:
http://www.php-tools.de
The class comes complete with examples and is very easy to implement and use.
</tip>
--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 19 17:34:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Nov 19 17:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
In-Reply-To: <3ddac67c$1@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <200211192333.gAJNXuSL006396@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Jackson Yee" <jyee at vt.edu>
>
> As Craig said, there's no harm in including a back link.  Before I got
[...]

i would like to take this opportunity to note that if the "Back" link
does not function *exactly* like the back button of the browser, you
may actually be creating a usability nightmare...

i'm speaking from experience here...

this means that if you are relying on JS and reading from the
history object, how do you handle for non-JS users?  does the link
not function at all, or not get drawn?

if it's not JS, then how do you determine the previous page without
a referrer or a variable passed to the current page? what if the user
came from a search engine to that page?

[...]
> Also, people who are inexperienced with computers will function
> *extremely* better if a back link is at the end of their reading.  As
> blind as users can be, they are quite attracted to large blue arrows
> which say "back", "previous," or "next" at the end of web pages.  It's
> only one more page element, so why not make everyone happy?

i would also caution on the use of previous/next...

unless the page flow you are in is decidedly linear (like a photo
gallery with images having a definite start and end), then you could
simply be adding to the horrible PowerPointification of the web...

people don't always surf a site in the linear fashion we expect, so
offering a 'next' or 'previous' can often confuse the issue...

given all that, i'm curious what makes you say that users are
attracted to large blue arrows at the end of web pages... my own
focus groups have often shown that that is not the case, and that
users often never make it to the end of the page, instead reading
only the first few lines and moving on...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Tue Nov 19 18:23:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue Nov 19 18:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Changing the mouse cursor
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119154321.054aee48@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021119162053.02287af0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 02:16 AM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
>I have a client who wants the default mouse pointer to change to the logo
>of his product on the company web page. Can I do this using just CSS? If
>so, could you tell me how please?

         Theoretically, you can do it in CSS2. However, it is so
unsupported and so strange to do with just CSS that the ability was (or
will be) taken away in CSS2.1. You can see the spec at:

         http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/ui.html#propdef-cursor

         -Max
--



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Tue Nov 19 18:32:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue Nov 19 18:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
  organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021119162856.023c3c50@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 09:36 AM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
>the issue i'm having is that of returned mail that did not originate
>from within our organization.

         There is another possibility that nobody's mentioned yet.

         There's a new spammer tack where they send email with headers like
this:

         (Pretend that you're "you at yahoo.com")

         To: you at aol.com
         From: you at yahoo.com

         Of course, you at aol.com doesn't exist, so aol.com bounces back the
spammer's email to you. (And it was originally intended for you.) For the
spammer, the best part about it is that AOL doesn't preserve all of the
headers, so you can't trace where the email originally came from.

         -Max
--



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Tue Nov 19 18:51:01 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Tue Nov 19 18:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBKEGDCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

I'm switching the database powering my site from Access to SQL Server and
I'm having a problem with some of the code.  What I'm trying to do is add
records into a table, then get the id of the record added and it along with
some other values to a second table.  I've read the articles are 4guys for
this and can't seem to get it to work.  Below is some of the code... a bit
long though.

Here's the code that worked with Access (minus a lot of the values):
<snip>
DBPath = Server.MapPath("../Database/agentszips2.mdb")
Set conn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
Conn.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";"
Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")

RS.Open "agent_tbl", Conn, adOpenKeySet, adLockOptimistic, adCmdTable
RS.AddNew
RS("agent") = agent
RS("phone") = officephone
RS.Update
idOfAddedRecord = RS("id")

RS.Close
Set RS = Nothing
Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")
RS.Open "zip_tbl", Conn, adOpenKeySet, adLockOptimistic, adCmdTable

zipcode_array = Split(zip,",")

For Each V in zipcode_array
   If V = " " Then Exit For
   RS.AddNew
   RS("zipcode") = LTrim(V)
   RS("agent_tbl_id") = idOfAddedRecord
   RS.Update
Next

RS.Close
conn.close
</snip>

Now, I've played around with "SELECT @@IDENTITY" trying to get that to work,
but haven't managed to get it.  The frustrating part for me is that the code
isn't throwing any errors.  It processes just fine, but when I check the
database the agent_tbl_id field is still blank.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeremy





From cparker at swatgear.com  Tue Nov 19 18:54:00 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Nov 19 18:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0B5@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Max Kanat-Alexander [mailto:maxka at cats.ucsc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
> organization
>
>
>
>          There is another possibility that nobody's mentioned yet.
>
>          There's a new spammer tack where they send email
> with headers like
> this:
>
>          (Pretend that you're "you at yahoo.com")
>
>          To: you at aol.com
>          From: you at yahoo.com
>
>          Of course, you at aol.com doesn't exist, so aol.com
> bounces back the
> spammer's email to you. (And it was originally intended for
> you.) For the
> spammer, the best part about it is that AOL doesn't preserve
> all of the
> headers, so you can't trace where the email originally came from.

sneeky bastards!

that is a very good idea, and sounds likely.

when we get another email like the one in question i'll look into that
being a possibility and see if it makes sense.


thanks,
chris.


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Tue Nov 19 18:54:06 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue Nov 19 18:54:06 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <001f01c29002$aabc59c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
 <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org>
 <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 11:34 AM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
>my menu items come out of the database, so i don't understand why
>i would then have to build them into objects

         Okay. Not to belabor this too much more, but I just had another idea.

         Say you want the menu items to DO different things on different pages.

         Say that you want one to turn red, one to turn grey, and the
seventh one down (whatever it is) to turn blue, because this is page number
seven. (Also, imagine that the colors that you want things to turn are
different for every page, adding up to several million combinations.) Then
you want them all to sort themselves in a different order than your SELECT
statement, based on what surrounds them.

         Now, imagine that you have, say, a thousand pages where this will
be the case.

         On this particular page, your menu items are:

         ItemOne
         ItemTwo
         ItemThree
         ItemFour
         ItemFive
         ItemSix
         ItemSeven
         ItemEight

         Include Way:
         On every page:
         1) turnGrey = "ItemOne"
         2) turnRed = "ItemTwo"
         3) BlueItem = pageNumber
         4) (Some custom sort function that I write before the include goes
here, most likely.)
         5) include the file



         Object Way
         1) Write a function for the menu object, called init(), which does
the above correctly based on the page you're in.
                 1a) Init will figure out what color each menu item should be.
                 1b) Init will call another function called
doCorrectMenuSort(), which you can write to do the right sort based on the
context of the object.
         2) Include the object (called "Menu").
         3) do Menu.init().

         Besides the simplicity, another advantage is:

         If you want to change what every page in the whole system does,
you just have to change how the init() function behaves. If you want to
make new pages that do something totally different, but keep the old init()
pages, you can write a new function called, say danceMenuDance().

         Once again, more useful in complex systems. And more useful in
application code than in web pages.

         -Max
--



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Tue Nov 19 19:02:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue Nov 19 19:02:01 2002
Subject: [Holy War] Opera v. Mozilla WAS Re: [thelist] JavaScripting in
  opera7 beta
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191414340.32171-100000@localhost.localdo
 main>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021119224759.00b2dc98@pop3.bip.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021119165753.0233e8a8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 02:17 PM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
> > Mozilla, beware! This might be a stronger competitor than ie...
>
>Opera has always been a stronger competitor than IE.... if the UI for Moz
>even gets more fully developed, Moz may one day be a competitor to Opera
>:-)
>
>TjL
>lobbing a holy war hand grenade and running away chuckling

         The advantage of Mozilla is the "quirks" and "almost standards"
mode. Basically, almost every page (the notable exception being Microsoft's
Knowledgebase) displays the same way in Mozilla and IE6. (Since they both
do the DOCTYPE-sniffing thing.) Opera, on the other hand, never had any
interest in duplicating the look of IE (read: mis-rendered) pages. :-)

         However, I would agree that, UI-feature-wise, Opera is king.

         -Max
--



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov 19 19:18:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov 19 19:18:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <004501c29032$aad38a70$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

>          Okay. Not to belabor this too much more, but I just had another
idea.

no, don't apologize, this is web development, so this is on topic

>          Say you want the menu items to DO different things on different
pages.

form versus function?  style versus content?  why would i want to
encapsulate that?

>          Say that you want one to turn red, one to turn grey, and the
> seventh one down (whatever it is) to turn blue, because this is page
number
> seven. (Also, imagine that the colors that you want things to turn are
> different for every page, adding up to several million combinations.)

you do not indicate how this colour change is to happen

i would expect it to be done via stylesheet classes, not FONT tags

actually, i've done something very much like your "smart" nav bar --

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3803

and as for millions of combinations, i realize you were trying to construct
an example, but that's contrived, nobody would build a web page like that

>          Object Way
>          1) Write a function for the menu object, called init(), which
does
> the above correctly based on the page you're in.

heh, that conveniently sweeps a whole boatload of coding under the carpet

millions of combinations, you said

the code will be just as messy as the include, if not worse

>          If you want to change what every page in the whole system does,
> you just have to change how the init() function behaves.

sweep, sweep...

> And more useful in application code than in web pages.

i believe that

;o)



From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Tue Nov 19 19:31:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Tue Nov 19 19:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBKEGDCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BA0025B9.2E00B%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/19/02 4:49 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:

> I'm switching the database powering my site from Access to SQL Server and
> I'm having a problem with some of the code.
> Here's the code that worked with Access (minus a lot of the values):
> <snip>
> DBPath = Server.MapPath("../Database/agentszips2.mdb")
> Set conn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
> Conn.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" & DBPath & ";"
> Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")
>
> RS.Open "agent_tbl", Conn, adOpenKeySet, adLockOptimistic, adCmdTable
> RS.AddNew
> RS("agent") = agent
> RS("phone") = officephone
> RS.Update
> idOfAddedRecord = RS("id")

> Now, I've played around with "SELECT @@IDENTITY" trying to get that to work,
> but haven't managed to get it.

SQL Server doesn't inherently require "SELECT @@IDENTITY" - it's only a new,
more efficient way to do things. Thanks to ADO, all you have to do to make
the same code work with SQL Server is change the connection string to to:
(should all be on one line)
Driver={SQL
Server};Server=XX.XX.XX.XX;Database=database;UID=username;PWD=password

Then your code should work as it is.

Once you've got that working, come back and we can go over doing inserts and
updates the quick way, with straight SQL, instead of using Recordsets.

Wade




From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Nov 19 19:49:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Nov 19 19:49:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DDAEBBC.4050902@macrovista.net>

Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:

>          Say you want the menu items to DO different things on different pages.
Why is it that we cant seem to get away from this 'menu' orientation
with the examples.  It is clearly a huge waste because the examples have
to be absurd before they have any value.

> you want them all to sort themselves in a different order than your SELECT
> statement, based on what surrounds them.
omg. than change your select statement! :)

>          Once again, more useful in complex systems. And more useful in
> application code than in web pages.
too true.

Let me throw a thought experiment out there...

how can you embrace encapsulation while embracing the principle of
separation of content and display?

good encapsulation seems to require your display formatting occur within
the content class.  good separation seems to require your content to not
be formatted in by a call to content.toString() or content.get() or
whatever you want to call it.

--Steve



From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com  Tue Nov 19 20:24:01 2002
From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann)
Date: Tue Nov 19 20:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBKEGDCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BKEMLDOEKDPCPNKCIFKNAEIDMDAA.eric.engelmann@geonetric.com>

1. Make sure you have Option Explicit on at the top, and have dimmed all
variables.

2. Make sure you DO NOT have On Error Resume Next up above somewhere.

3. Step through it, response.writing the variables out at each step, so you
know where the error is.

For example, Response.Write the "zip" variable to make sure you actually
have something to Split, and then loop through. If its blank, then you have
no loop, and no update.

4. Actually, where is "zip" defined? Am I missing something?

zipcode_array = Split(zip,",")

maybe should be

Dim zip
zip = RS.Fields("zip").Value
zipcode_array = Split(zip,",")

?

- Eric





From davidu at everydns.net  Tue Nov 19 20:42:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Tue Nov 19 20:42:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <3DDAEBBC.4050902@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <002c01c2903e$4f35c050$2532fc80@pravda>

Steve Lewis wrote:
>
> how can you embrace encapsulation while embracing the principle of
> separation of content and display?

How can you not? :-)

Here's an example:
$product = new productObject($product_id);

it may have some methods like:
$product->getDescription();
$product->inStock();
$product->getPrice();
$product->offerDiscount($user_id); // be nice to our favorite clients!
$product->getShippingPrice();

All of those methods could be wrapped in XML, XHTML, WML, PDF, XLS or any
other format you'd want.  They could be used on search pages, product pages,
email newsletters, YOU NAME IT!  They are content _in specific_.  With this
sort of planning you could implement a pretty decent MVCC application.

-davidu


>
> good encapsulation seems to require your display formatting occur
> within the content class.  good separation seems to require your
> content to not be formatted in by a call to content.toString() or
> content.get() or whatever you want to call it.
>
> --Steve




From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Tue Nov 19 20:48:00 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue Nov 19 20:48:00 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <3DDAEBBC.4050902@macrovista.net>
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
 <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org>
 <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org>
 <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021119184555.00ae7828@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 05:56 PM 11/19/2002, you wrote:
>how can you embrace encapsulation while embracing the principle of
>separation of content and display?

         The best way? Make objects that generate HTML with CSS classes.
Instead of setting style="color: red" on the inside of your object, set
class="redObject" (or hopefully some other, better, more descriptive class
name.)

         -Max
--



From stef at hy.cgocable.ca  Tue Nov 19 21:47:00 2002
From: stef at hy.cgocable.ca (Stephane Gosselin)
Date: Tue Nov 19 21:47:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] database help (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119224145.025d7d58@mail.cgocable.ca>

Hey Tom.

	When I have a situation like that, the way I solve it is to add "option"
fields to my item table, wich is set at null value by default.

Customer has items wich have color options ? you use your option field, set
the items to blue, red, whatever.

If you have sizes ie: small, medium, large, -> add another option field  (
"option2" , or heck,  even "size" )to your DB, default it to null and store
you item-size in that.

That way any item not needing options is set with null values in the options. .




From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Tue Nov 19 22:27:01 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Tue Nov 19 22:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <BA0025B9.2E00B%wade_lists@runstrong.com>
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEEGKCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

Wade,

I've changed the connection string to an SQL DNS one and now it's adding the
an id, but it's the wrong id.  With respect to those on digest I've posted
the code at http://whatsmyhomevalue.com/testnew/confirmation.txt (the actual
page is .asp of course)

All the variables are passed from a form at
http://whatsmyhomevalue.com/testnew/membership_form.htm


Eric,

I've got the Option Explicit on at the top and there's no mention of On
Error Resume Next.  Oh, and zip is defined on the previous page, I cut a lot
out to save bandwidth.


-jeremy

:SQL Server doesn't inherently require "SELECT @@IDENTITY" - it's
:only a new,
:more efficient way to do things. Thanks to ADO, all you have to do to make
:the same code work with SQL Server is change the connection string to to:
:(should all be on one line)
:Driver={SQL
:Server};Server=XX.XX.XX.XX;Database=database;UID=username;PWD=password
:
:Then your code should work as it is.
:
:Once you've got that working, come back and we can go over doing
:inserts and
:updates the quick way, with straight SQL, instead of using Recordsets.
:
:Wade
:


:1. Make sure you have Option Explicit on at the top, and have dimmed all
:variables.
:
:2. Make sure you DO NOT have On Error Resume Next up above somewhere.
:
:3. Step through it, response.writing the variables out at each step, so you
:know where the error is.
:
:For example, Response.Write the "zip" variable to make sure you actually
:have something to Split, and then loop through. If its blank, then you have
:no loop, and no update.
:
:4. Actually, where is "zip" defined? Am I missing something?
:
:- Eric
:




From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com  Tue Nov 19 23:14:01 2002
From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann)
Date: Tue Nov 19 23:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEEGKCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BKEMLDOEKDPCPNKCIFKNAEIPMDAA.eric.engelmann@geonetric.com>

Ah, gotcha, thanks.

Two possibilities, with 2 minor comments at the end:

1. I think Access upsizing/import does not set the primary key for you, if i
recall correctly. Make SURE you have the ID field set as primary key in SQL
Server, in addition to Identity. I tried your code and sat there staring at
it trying to figure out why mine worked and yours didn't, and the only way I
could break it was to remove the Primary Key designator from the field in
SQL Server. I guess it kind of makes sense, something about not being able
to hold onto the bookmark on the row you're on without a primary key
specified.

I didn't know that, guess you learn something new every day. :-)

2. If you can't do that, then the brute force method is to requery and move
to the last record:

RS.Update
RS.Requery
RS.MoveLast
idOfAddedRecord = RS("id").Value
Response.Write "item" & idOfAddedRecord

Worked for my test example, even without the PK set in SQL. This has the
potential for a concurrency problem, though, if two people submitted a
millisecond apart and they crossed paths.

Give that a shot.

3. Personal preference #1:

Set db = Server.CreateObject("adodb.connection")
db.Open "DSN=membership;UID=XXXX;PWD=XXXX;DATABASE=membership"
Set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")
RS.Open "agent_tbl", Conn, adOpenKeySet, adLockOptimistic, adCmdTable

Doing these in this sequence is a bit confusing, because I would have
expected at first glance the the RS will utilize the db Connection just by
the way its laid out, but it doesn't.

4. Personal preference #2:

Create an application variable for all of your connstrings, so you can do:

db.Open Application("myDSN")

and in your global.asa:

Application("myDSN") =
"DSN=membership;UID=XXXX;PWD=XXXX;DATABASE=membership"

Its a god-fearing rule around here to never have anything server specific
(paths, connstrings, etc) in any page of code other than global.asa (or in
some cases, a single global include, usually named global.asp)

When you need to move the site, change the DSN name, or anything else, it'll
make your life much, much easier, you change it once and BLAMO its all set
throughout the site.

Good luck, hope that fixes it.

- Eric




From evolt at funkwit.com  Tue Nov 19 23:39:01 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Tue Nov 19 23:39:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119184555.00ae7828@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <021001c29056$13f3fee0$3e02a8c0@cusack>

(this is long, and will wrap oddly, and stuff like that. sorry)

OK. I'll have a go at explaining 'Why O-O?' in one simple step (well....)

I will fail, but by god, I will try.

This is just _one_ example of where it might be useful; it is almost
certainly not a brilliant one.

Take as read all the previous statements by others wiser than I: that O-O
in a 'web environment' _may_ be less useful (also, _may not_) than it is
elsewhere, and a lot of people aren't convinced about its usefulness in
'real coding' (ahem) either. But let's say, for the sake of running a
simulation through the Paul Cowan Arg-U-Matic 9000i (tm) Automatic
Point Generator, that you're running a hardware store, and you're
writing a stock management system.

You sell:
    - rope and wooden planks (sold by length)
    - hammers and tractor tyres (sold per-item)

In an 'O-O world', you might define a hierarchy of objects (often
abstract, rather than concrete), and their properties, like so:
    Item
    |
    +-- Length-Priced Item
    |   |
    |   +-- Rope
    |   +-- Planks
    |
    +-- Unit-Priced Item
        |
        +-- Hammers
        +-- Tractor tyres

The 'item' object might have the properties 'length', 'count',
and 'unit cost'. By implication, everything that 'hangs off' the
'item' object in the tree also has these properties, with no
extra code required.

You can then define methods (functions) on each object -- or, indeed,
on some of the objects, and not on others.

Let's take the method 'CalculatePrice' (which is surely going to
prove useful) and have some pseudocode in a new O-O language of my
own devising:

    method Item.CalculatePrice
    [
        result = (count * unitcost)
    ]

Because that's defined in the 'Item' class, any of the classes that
hang off that (Rope, Planks, ...) can use that too. But that's not right
for rope or planks... so maybe we define

    method LengthPricedItem.CalculatePrice
    [
        result = (length * unitcost)
    ]

then rope and planks work right -- the new method in the 'parent class'
just 'flows through' to those objects.  We don't need to redefine it
in the others, that would be silly.

How is this useful? Well, let's compare price calculations. In the
O-O code, we've got:

    function CalculateStateTax(item)
    [
        result = item.CalculatePrice * 10%
    ]

in the non-O-O code, we might replace the functions above with:

    function CalculatePrice(itemtype, length, quantity, unitcost)
    [
        if (itemtype is 'rope') or (itemtype is 'plank') then
            result = length * unitcost
        else
            result = quantity * unitcost
    ]

    function CalculateStateTax(itemtype, length, quantity, unitcost)
    [
        if (itemtype is 'rope') or (itemtype is 'plank') then
            result = length * unitcost * 10%
        else
            result = quantity * unitcost * 10%
    ]


So have we gained anything by using O-O? No, not really. All we've
done is move the code around, really. It's the same code. At least
with non-O-O, all the price code is in one place, right?

But What happens if we change 'plank' from being length-based to
unit-based? (stupid example, I know) Well, we have to change the 'if' in
two places in the non-O-O one -- CalculatePrice and CalculateStateTax.
(or three, or four, or five, or fifty...)

'Aha!' I hear you think. 'He's duplicating code to make the non-O-O look
bad'. So let's simplify CalculateStateTax to:
    [
        Tax = CalculatePrice(itemtype, length, quantity, unitcost) * 10%
    ]
and do the same elsewhere -- we functionalise the code more, and well we
should. If we're lucky, we can only have the price calculation in one
spot. Much better, isn't it?

But then what happens when we add weight-based products: nails and
lawn-seed?

If we change CalculatePrice to add ", weight" to the parameters, fine. But
then we have to change CalculateStateTax to have the same parameter:
and all the calls to it, and also the code and calls for
CalculateFederalTax, and CalculateBuyerRebate, and CalculateIncentivePoints,
and CanPurchaseFitOnCustomer'sLineOfCredit, and.... so on.

What do we do in an O-O model? We add
    ...
    |
    +-- Weight-Priced Item
        |
        +-- Nails
        +-- Lawn Seed

And then
    method WeightPricedItem.CalculatePrice
    [
        result = (weight * unitcost)
    ]

and we're done. That is it. Seriously, that might be all the code we
need (for that part, anyway).

When you're calculating tax, you're dealing with an 'abstract class' of
'Item': you don't know, or indeed care, HOW the item calculates its
own price. You just say 'Item, what's your price?' and it works it out.
The point here is _encapsulation_. The item knows about its own internal
workings; everything else which deals with items just knows 'hey, items
have prices'. It doesn't care how it does it; if it changes, your
'calling code' won't care a whit. That way, you're creating 'chunks'
of code which are rather more modular and, often (but not _always_)
more useful and more maintainable.

I'm sure, Rudy, you'd be familiar with the belief (not always for the
best, but often so) that you should manipulate items close to where they
'live'.

e.g.: Manipulate data in the data layer; manipulate business rules in the
business layer. Most people enforce referential integrity in their DB,
not in their CF code; most people implement business processes in their
CF code, not their DB. Usually, it makes sense to do this.

O-O's "encapsulation" concept is kind of like this, but taken a step
further.

(of course, my examples here are not very good; but there is a limit
to the complexity I'm willing to convey in an email which has already
taken me ages to write. I hope they're better than the rather abstract
menu example though.)

There are just two parts of O-O which can prove useful: encapsulation
and inheritance -- and on rereading, I see that I haven't explained
inheritance, one of the most powerful parts, very well at all. Ahh well.
There's a reason whole _books_ are written on this, you know.

And remember: Object-Orientation is a methodology, not a panacea. Anybody
who says "you should rewrite that in O-O", without being able to explain
why, is a shyster. "Because you'll be able to re-use your code better
and maintenance is easier" isn't a good reason. If someone says that,
give them your DB diagram, your business requirements doc, and say
"give me a concrete example". If there isn't one, O-O is pointless for
you. Of course, just because that particular person can't come up with
one doesn't mean there isn't one, but it might help you work out who's
saying it just for the sake of saying it.

Anyone who says "you should always use O-O" is a chump; no more so,
though, than someone who says "O-O is always useless bloat". You
will find that, more often than not, both of the people making these
bold factual assertions (and people DO) is not only a moron, but
_does not know what they are talking about_ on one side or the other.

None is so blind as he who will not see etc. etc.

Paul.



From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Wed Nov 20 00:11:01 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Wed Nov 20 00:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 19-NOV-02
Message-ID: <200211200610.gAK6A1Jc022964@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 19-NOV-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

IA/Usability: Designing your pages for search engines (Author: tull)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/4090/45779/index.html

Search engine optimization is becoming a key part of what it means to
be a web developer. Getting your clients traffic ain't easy - but a
little thought at the design stage will make things much easier in
the long run.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From ccosta at servidores.net  Wed Nov 20 02:36:01 2002
From: ccosta at servidores.net (Carlos Costa Portela)
Date: Wed Nov 20 02:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Sessions and subdomains
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211200932490.25605-100000@casa.ccp.servidores.net>

	Hello all!

	We, at biologia.org, are using PHP sessions. All runs well...
until we decided use subdomains for specific sections of the site.

http://www.biologia.org/?pid=5000 -> http://revista.biologia.org/

	When I go from one subdomain to other, I miss the session.

	What must I do to solve this problem?

	Thanks in advance,
		Carlos.

       [ http://www.biologia.org/ :: portal especializado en Biolog?a ]
 _______Carlos Costa Portela_________________________________________________
| e-mail:  ccosta at servidores.net | home page: http://casa.ccp.servidores.net |
|_____T?dalas persoas maiores foron nenos antes, pero poucas se lembran______|



From ironmike at inav.net  Wed Nov 20 03:30:01 2002
From: ironmike at inav.net (Mike H)
Date: Wed Nov 20 03:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] News Paper CMS
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118154807.00a12140@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <20021119212221.A740@prodigy.Redbrick.DCU.IE>
Message-ID: <006201c29077$5620e6e0$ae580640@o4u7d1>

Not free, but inexpensive compared to the competition --  I don't know about academic discounts, but contact them and ask.

News Manager  USD$99  --   Basic news manager with limited pictures, etc.
Article Manager  USD$299  --  includes archiving, unlimited pictures, syndication, etc.

These are Perl based. The company will help you set them up on your site for free.

http://www.interactivetools.com/


Mike Hopkins
ironmike at inav.net

-------------------
Kevin wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone know any nice CMSes, Perl or PHP
> that would be suitable for using in a news paper style manner.
>




From Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com  Wed Nov 20 03:35:01 2002
From: Stevenson at epr.footman-walker.com (Stevenson Ngila)
Date: Wed Nov 20 03:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
Message-ID: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJAOEAADFAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>

I have a coldfusion page that  uses cfmail tag to sent mail. The mail is
sent in HTML format and in the mail, i have attached an onload event which
should fire when one reads a mail. The event fires when one is using office
2000 but doesn't fire with office xp.

Could anyone have any idea why?

Thanks,
Stevenson Ngila
Footman-Walker Associates Ltd
http://www.footman-walker.co.uk





From web2k2 at premonition.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 04:23:00 2002
From: web2k2 at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan)
Date: Wed Nov 20 04:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] AOL 5 Mac OS 9 what-is-it? (Weird CSS issue)
Message-ID: <p05100305ba0112b05cab@[192.168.8.2]>

What is AOL 5 (v20.7) for Mac OS 9? The browser IE5 is also installed
on the machine, but may not be the only browser on the machine.

I know questions like this get asked often, and everyone gets pointed
here: http://webmaster.aol.com/compatibility.html so don't post that
link in reply :)

But that page implies (without actually saying) that the installed
IE5 will be used. The visitor was experiencing some odd CSS rendering
issues which were not at all consistent with IE5, and disappeared
when the visitor just used IE5 au naturel. (I designed the site with
IE5 Mac as the reference browser, so...)

In fact, if anyone's still interested the css is hidden from older
UAs with @import url("styles.css"); which this page
http://pixels.pixelpark.com/~koch/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/
tells me will hide CSS from any pre-5 browser likely to be used by
AOL. The sole exception being IE 4.72 Win - but this guy's on a Mac.

In the VERY unlikely event that one of you chaps has that AOL program
around, the site in question is http://www.westnell.org.uk/christmas/

Thanks guys and gals,

Geoff


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 04:33:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed Nov 20 04:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
Message-ID: <F77rXBj73KjXG3d0TKY00020e50@hotmail.com>


>I have a coldfusion page that  uses cfmail tag to sent mail. The mail is
>sent in HTML format and in the mail, i have attached an onload event which
>should fire when one reads a mail.

What a perfectly terrible thing to do.

>The event fires when one is using office 2000 but doesn't fire with office
>xp.

Good for XP, I'd say.

Sorry for the off-topic mail, but JavaScript doesn't belong in mail and even
less in Office.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
New: Interview by Carole Guevin:
http://netdiver.net/interviews/peterpaulkoch.php
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Wed Nov 20 06:33:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Wed Nov 20 06:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
In-Reply-To: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJAOEAADFAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>
References: <OOEMLIMIIBLDEKIKOHJAOEAADFAA.Stevenson@epr.footman-walker.com>
Message-ID: <20021120121741.GA21498@us-lot.org>

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 12:31:26PM +0300, Stevenson Ngila wrote:
> I have a coldfusion page that  uses cfmail tag to sent mail. The mail is
> sent in HTML format and in the mail, i have attached an onload event which
> should fire when one reads a mail. The event fires when one is using office
> 2000 but doesn't fire with office xp.
>
> Could anyone have any idea why?

Perhaps Microsoft actually improved the security when they brought
out the update.

Check the scripting settings for the security zone that the HTML
email runs in.

(And I'll continue to filter HTML mail through lynx to get a
slightly more sensible text version)

--
David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
"You cannot rewrite history, not one line."
                                      - The Doctor (Dr. Who: The Aztecs)


From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Nov 20 07:14:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> <1037735421.4828.5.camel@fidel>
Message-ID: <061601c29096$84218a80$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Handelaar" <john at evolt.org.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 2:50 PM


> From what I already know to be your OS of choice >:-)
>
> nslookup
>
> > set type=mx
> > domain.com
> > exit

FYI, you can use type=all to view all associated DNS records for the domain.

-joshua



From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Nov 20 07:17:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DNS and MX record woes
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCENBFEAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> <1037735421.4828.5.camel@fidel> <061601c29096$84218a80$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <062201c29097$08230750$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at waetech.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:12 AM


> FYI, you can use type=all to view all associated DNS records for the
domain.
>
> -joshua

Correction, that should be type=any, not type=all.

Sorry bout that.

-joshua



From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Wed Nov 20 07:28:01 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0A7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <MGEKLGHDNCCOJEHBAIKECEIJDMAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

There are several explanations:

1. Open relay -
	http://www.spews.org/ - test your IP.
	http://relays.osirusoft.com/
	http://www.ordb.org/

2. Internal virus/Trojan

3. External virus such as Klez
>From
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.klez.gen at mm.html
Email spoofing
Some variants of this worm use a technique known as "spoofing." If so, the
worm randomly selects an address that it finds on an infected computer. It
uses this address as the "From" address that it uses when it performs its
mass-mailing routine. Numerous cases have been reported in which users of
uninfected computers received complaints that they sent an infected message
to someone else.

4. Spammer faking email headers
This is an attempt to look like a genuine email, and also to try and prevent
the spammers server or email account getting bogged down with rejects. If
you are receiving multiple rejects this is the most likely reason.

5. Spammer faking email headers so reply is read by intended recipient.
Send an email to <reject at somewhere_probably_aol.com> and fake the reply
address to yours and the reject gets sent to you, and you are likely to open
it as you want to know which email bounced.

You should probably look through the mail logs and check if an email did go
out to the recipient, but recently I'd say the most likely reason is 4, and
there is _nothing_ you can do. You may want to put a disclaimer or something
on your web site if you're getting loads of rejects as it's not doing your
business any favours.

Luckily most Spam blockers are apparently clever enough not to block mail
from innocent victim domains so your own genuine email shouldn't be
affected.

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty
Mega Products Limited, 10-11 Moor Street, Soho, London W1D 5NF
t: 020 7434 4201 f: 0870 135 8412
http://www.liamdelahunty.com/ web/ design/ database/ programming
http://www.britstream.com/ Hosting/ Domain Names From UKP 7.50 p.a.




From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Wed Nov 20 07:28:08 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:28:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJEEJDFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <MGEKLGHDNCCOJEHBAIKEEEIJDMAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

carole guevin wrote:

>a *real* returned mail - has 2 attachments - one is your *initial* mail and
>a text with complete header information.

Bounced mail to a bad domain usually returns with two attachments, but
bounced mail to a valid domain but bad user, or user over quota could return
with zero, one or two attachments depending on the server and the reason.

kind regards,
Liam



From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Nov 20 07:30:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
References: <200211192333.gAJNXuSL006396@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <065801c29098$b94b8c40$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 6:34 PM


> this means that if you are relying on JS and reading from the
> history object, how do you handle for non-JS users?  does the link
> not function at all, or not get drawn?

I agree 100%, back links can be very cumbersome to manage, at best.  A
possible solution that I've found is to use the history object AND only
render the back button (using document.write) if the history object is
available in the users browser.

One huge downside to this is if the referring page is a result of a form
post.  Depending on cache settings, the page may come up as expired for the
user.

> if it's not JS, then how do you determine the previous page without
> a referrer or a variable passed to the current page? what if the user
> came from a search engine to that page?

That is a wonderful point.  Unfortunately, my experience with clients that
actually interact with the end users in a customer support role is that they
generally do not seem to trust the average user's web-savvy quotient.  They
seem to honestly believe that users do not know how to use neither the back
button nor the refresh button.  Most of these clients are speaking from
endless hours of telephone time trying to help users work through the site.
What they don't realize, usually, is that the calls they do receive
represent a tiny fraction of the total users that visit the site.

(Is this an example of a rotten apple spoiling the batch?  I think so.)

The closest I've come to a reasonable compromise is a site-depth breadcrumb.
Which not representing a true "back" button experience, it represents a way
to get to the higher logical level of the site, if such a level exists.  In
some sites, granted, not even a reasonable site-depth breadcrumb can be used
given the nature and construct of the site.

-joshua



From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Nov 20 07:36:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 07:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
References: <BA0025B9.2E00B%wade_lists@runstrong.com>
Message-ID: <067401c29099$9ae1f1d0$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wade Armstrong" <wade_lists at runstrong.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 8:30 PM


> Once you've got that working, come back and we can go over doing inserts
and
> updates the quick way, with straight SQL, instead of using Recordsets.

To add to this suggestion, I'll suggest a trick I use with CF that will
probably work with ASP.  Add an insert trigger to the table that looks
something like this:

CREATE TRIGGER triggername ON table
FOR INSERT
AS SELECT @@identity AS id

Then, in theory, you should be able to do something like this:

strSQL = "INSERT INTO table (name) VALUES ('myname')"
oRS = oConn.Execute(strSQL)
Response.Write "The inserted id is " & oRS("id")

Possible gotcha:  if you are doing a lot of inserts into the table,
performance might be slightly compromised.  But, if you do a lot of inserts,
I'm sure you'll figure out a way to disable the insert trigger first.  :-)

-joshua



From carole at pixeltable.com  Wed Nov 20 08:33:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Wed Nov 20 08:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] seeking book recommendation for topics: XML XSLT XPath...
In-Reply-To: <3DDAB551.4030604@worlddomination.net>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJAEKLFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi steve,

here are a couple of books:

Special Edition Using HTML and XHTML (7th Edition) by Molly E. Holzschlag
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0789727315/netdiver/104-0803207-39167
64

XML, HTML, XHTML Magic by Molly Holzschlag
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711399/netdiver/104-0803207-39167
64

Molly is a pro and well recognized resource on topic.

If you need other books - the toolbox holds over 100 titles on flash,
design, industry and code.
http://netdiver.net/toolbox/books_news.php

hth.
.c

..web communication design + http://pixeltable.com
...new media culture_magazine + design portal + http://netdiver.net




From CDitty at email.usps.gov  Wed Nov 20 08:46:01 2002
From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Ditty, Christopher J - Memphis, TN)
Date: Wed Nov 20 08:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
Message-ID: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>

Hello all, I am having a little problem figuring this out and I was hoping that
someone could help.  I am trying to read in some variables from the url line.
The problem is that a lot of the variables are using the same name.  This cannot
be helped.

The URL....
?task=remove_routes&formSubmit=1&remove_route=29918R001&remove_route=29918R002&r
emove_route=29911R001&remove_route=29922R001

I need to be able to loop through the remove_route and get the value for each.
I have searched but I can't find anything usefull.  Can anyone help?

Thanks
CDitty


From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Wed Nov 20 08:47:01 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Nov 20 08:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BBC9@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Aardie,


I agree.  ... However, IIRC the original poster was talking about
a report or a set of reports sitting on an Intranet. That's a little
different situation.

Under those conditions I don't think it would be proper to use a
"Back" link because it doesn't really have a use in context.
(There's no 'company need' for me to give a user a link to get back
to Amazon or evolt from within an internal company report.)  ;-)

Some of the things that _could_ be done would include:

* Putting a "Main Menu of Available Reports" link on a report
results page to let the user get back to a menu to select a different
report.

* Putting a "Rerun this Report" or "Back to the User Controls" link
on a report results page to take the users back to the input selection
screen to rerun the report they were already using.  (My understanding
was that this is what the original poster was asking about and I think
it can be a very good idea for some reports. Especially ones with
multiple pages. Sometimes you can even use breadcrumb 'back to page 1',
'previous page', 'next page', 'go to last page' links within reports
where that makes sense.)  Some other reports have multiple 'views'
where you may want to place links in each view to take the user to
any other view of the same information.  While you want some consistency
in your 'look and feel' across all your reports, each is built for a
specific task and therefore may need different linking depending on how
the users will work with it.

* Putting the report controls in a top frame and the report results
in a bottom frame so they are always available.  {While I'm not a big
fan of frames I do think this can be an appropriate use.}


Just some ideas for a reporting environment,


RonL.


-----Original Message-----
From: aardvark [mailto:roselli at earthlink.net]

i would like to take this opportunity to note that if the "Back" link
does not function *exactly* like the back button of the browser, you
may actually be creating a usability nightmare...



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Wed Nov 20 08:52:00 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Wed Nov 20 08:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Sessions and subdomains
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211200932490.25605-100000@casa.ccp.servidores.net>
Message-ID: <6A9D3DF1-FC97-11D6-B4DD-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Wednesday, Nov 20, 2002, at 02:34 US/Central, Carlos Costa Portela
wrote:
> 	When I go from one subdomain to other, I miss the session.
> 	What must I do to solve this problem?


AFAIK, you must set the domain of all the session cookies to be the
same using:

	session.cookie_domain = "biologia.org"

in all of you php.ini and/or .htaccess files.

See all Session Runtime Configuration directives at:
	http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.session.php

Mars :)



From evolt.list at sethbienek.com  Wed Nov 20 09:16:00 2002
From: evolt.list at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Wed Nov 20 09:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
In-Reply-To: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>
Message-ID: <003101c290a7$ab53a8c0$8d79b442@tempschedulingsystem.com>

Hi Chris,

CF will only see the last value in the URL with the same name.

If you want to pass multiple values, send them as a comma-delimited
list:

?task=remove_routes&formSubmit=1&remove_route=29918R001,29918R002,29911R
001,29922R001

Then loop through the variable itself as a list:
<cfloop list="#url.remove_route#" index="routenum">

I hope this is an option for you, otherwise you are going to have to
take a performance hit by deconstructing the url to get at your values
(via regex et al).

Hope this helps,

Seth

> -----Original Message-----
> Hello all, I am having a little problem figuring this out and
> I was hoping that someone could help.  I am trying to read in
> some variables from the url line. The problem is that a lot
> of the variables are using the same name.  This cannot be helped.
>
> The URL....
> ?task=remove_routes&formSubmit=1&remove_route=29918R001&remove
> _route=29918R002&r
> emove_route=29911R001&remove_route=29922R001
>
> I need to be able to loop through the remove_route and get
> the value for each. I have searched but I can't find anything
> usefull.  Can anyone help?



From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Wed Nov 20 09:19:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Wed Nov 20 09:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
References: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov>
Message-ID: <002d01c290a7$f63e9570$9865fea9@jakibyard>

cditty:
> someone could help.  I am trying to read in some variables from the url
line.
> The problem is that a lot of the variables are using the same name.  This
cannot
> be helped.
>

it *must* be helped ;)

seriously, it won't work i'm afraid.

url variables of the same name don't get converted to a list like form
variables with the same name do (it'd be nice, i know).

you'll probably have to dynamically name the variables, and then loop over
the url structure to get the values.

hth,

nagrom



From joel at spinhead.com  Wed Nov 20 09:39:00 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Wed Nov 20 09:39:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806D1@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I have a coldfusion page that  uses cfmail tag to sent mail.
> The mail is sent in HTML format and in the mail, i have
> attached an onload event which should fire when one reads a
> mail. The event fires when one is using office 2000 but
> doesn't fire with office xp.
>
> Could anyone have any idea why?

By default, XP turns off any kind of active scripting in the body, and kills
most attachments. You can't e-mail JavaScript to an Outlook XP user. The
only way around it is some pretty slick tap-dancing through the Exchange
server.

Wouldn't it work to create a page with the intended content, and just e-mail
a link?

joel


From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 10:01:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
References: <003101c290a7$ab53a8c0$8d79b442@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <002401c290ad$f0fbc910$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

christopher, you can leave the design of your url string as is

this will put the values into a new list for you:

<cfset myurlarray = ListToArray(cgi.query_string,"&")>
<cfset newlist = "">
<cfloop index="i" from="1" to="#ArrayLen(myurlarray)#">
<cfif Lcase(Left(myurlarray[i],13)) is "remove_route=">
  <cfset route = mid(myurlarray[i],14,len(myurlarray[i])-13)>
  <cfset newlist = ListAppend(newlist,route)>
</cfif>
</cfloop>
<cfoutput> #newlist# </cfoutput>


rudy



From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 10:03:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
References: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov> <002d01c290a7$f63e9570$9865fea9@jakibyard>
Message-ID: <003601c290ae$2f8a0980$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

christopher, don't listen to those guys, you can leave the design of your
url string as is

this will put the remove_route= values into a "remove" list for you:

<cfset myurlarray = ListToArray(cgi.query_string,"&")>
<cfset removelist = "">
<cfloop index="i" from="1" to="#ArrayLen(myurlarray)#">
<cfif Lcase(Left(myurlarray[i],13)) is "remove_route=">
  <cfset route = mid(myurlarray[i],14,len(myurlarray[i])-13)>
  <cfset removelist = ListAppend(removelist,route)>
</cfif>
</cfloop>
<cfoutput> #removelist# </cfoutput>


rudy




From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 10:11:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
References: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov> <002d01c290a7$f63e9570$9865fea9@jakibyard> <003601c290ae$2f8a0980$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <007001c290af$4ba471e0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

aargh, sorry about the double post

had it sitting in my outbox, wanted to edit it, accidentally
sent it both before and after the edit

<tip type=coldfusion>
you know how you don't have to hash cf variables inside cf tags?
you do in certain cases
for example,
  <cfloop index="i" from="1" to=ArrayLen(myarray)>
won't compile, but
<cfloop index="i" from="1" to=#ArrayLen(myarray)#>
is okay
the quotes are apparently optional
</tip>

rudy



From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Wed Nov 20 10:17:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion & URL Variables
References: <CB37B665CB3EF74EAEC6A2DABFB8C0A20252C5F6@rlghncsxm20.usa.dce.usps.gov> <002d01c290a7$f63e9570$9865fea9@jakibyard> <003601c290ae$2f8a0980$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <008501c290b0$1ccd5de0$9865fea9@jakibyard>

> this will put the remove_route= values into a "remove" list for you:
>
> <cfset myurlarray = ListToArray(cgi.query_string,"&")>
> <cfset removelist = "">
> <cfloop index="i" from="1" to="#ArrayLen(myurlarray)#">
> <cfif Lcase(Left(myurlarray[i],13)) is "remove_route=">
>   <cfset route = mid(myurlarray[i],14,len(myurlarray[i])-13)>
>   <cfset removelist = ListAppend(removelist,route)>
> </cfif>
> </cfloop>
> <cfoutput> #removelist# </cfoutput>
>
hmmm, that will work, rudy is right -- nice work rudimeister.

small enhancement, you can do this:
<cfset route = mid(myurlarray[i],14,len(myurlarray[i])-13)>
a little simpler like this:
<cfset route = ListLast(myurlarray[i],'=')>

and you might wanna copy the list back to the url structure, so you don't go
nuts down the road:
<cfset url.remove_route = removelist>

but darn, nagrom is kicking himself for forgetting the query_string...heh


nagrom



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Wed Nov 20 10:23:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4478@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi List,

Is this statement true?
Here is the order of Web Browser popularity throughout the world based upon
the number of users that use them:
1: Internet Explorer
2: Netscape Navigator
3: Opera
4: Mozilla
5. Other

Thanks

Rob.Smith


From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com  Wed Nov 20 10:27:01 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Listserv program?
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FEA4E9CB@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

Hi all - just wondering if anyone can tell me what type of programming is used to run a listserv management system on a Windows 2000 server... if there are "off-the-shelf" (or downloadable) programs for operating a listserv on Win2000... or, just how should a person get started who has been asked to research setting up a listserv? Thanks for any/all advice.
Janet



From evolt at goonies.info  Wed Nov 20 10:36:03 2002
From: evolt at goonies.info (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:36:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] DWMX: WebDAV error when synchronizing
Message-ID: <003801c290b2$afc44850$1582d889@sdstate.edu>

I've set up a new site to access the remote folder using WebDAV. I'm sure I
have all the WebDAV settings correct as they are quite basic. When I connect
to the remote site and synchronize files (get newer files from remote), the
following error message appears:

The desired action could not be completed because the server is currently
unavailable or misconfigured. (HTTP Error 500)

Then:

No synchronization is necessary.

Finally, no files are downloaded to my local machine. I tested the same
settings with Internet Explorer and was able to connect and transfer files
without any problems.

Can anyone help? Thanks.

Minh Lee Goon
--


http://www.goonies.info/
Not the film. The family.


http://www.goonies.info/
Not the film. The family.



From carole at pixeltable.com  Wed Nov 20 10:45:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4478@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIELIFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi Rob,

Based on netdiver.net stats heregoes:

:Here is the order of Web Browser popularity throughout the world based upon
:the number of users that use them:
:1: Internet Explorer - IE6 + IE5 = 94%
:2: Netscape Navigator - N5 + N4 = 2%
:3: Opera
:4: Mozilla
:5. Other

Opera is in 3rd place but accounts to 0% in view of total audience

Netscape 6.x   (0%)
MSIE 4.x    (0%)
Unknown    (0%)
Netscape 3.x   (0%)
Netscape 2.x    (0%)
MSIE 3.x    (0%)
MSIE 1.x    (0%)

hth
.c

..web communication design + http://pixeltable.com
...new media culture_magazine + design portal + http://netdiver.net



From evolt at scottbrady.net  Wed Nov 20 10:54:00 2002
From: evolt at scottbrady.net (Scott Brady)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
Message-ID: <200211200953.AA708051146@scottbrady.net>

>:1: Internet Explorer - IE6 + IE5 = 94%
>:2: Netscape Navigator - N5 + N4 = 2%
>:3: Opera
>:4: Mozilla
>:5. Other
>
>Opera is in 3rd place but accounts to 0% in view of total audience
>

Considering that Opera is able to "disguise" itself as other browsers (like IE), Opera's numbers are probably low.  However, I would suspect that the order is right even if the numbers aren't accurate.

Scott
------------------------------
Scott Brady
http://www.scottbrady.net/




From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Nov 20 10:56:01 2002
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Nov 20 10:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F50635A2AE@nyexchange01.summithq.com>

hiya!

know thy audience! stats like those posted warm my heart, but my server log
this week tells me:

Top Browsers

  Browser                           Hits      % of Total
 1 Microsoft Internet Explorer     104,919      81.16%
 2 Netscape Compatible               5,806       4.49%
 3 Netscape Navigator                7,324       5.66%
 4 Others 				      11,217       8.67%
 5 WebTV                                 1          0%


my further stats tell me almost all of 2 & 3 is probably netscape 4. 10% of
my audience is most likely netscape 4; and even at a proven 5%, can i ignore
those 5,800 potential customers *each week*? not if i want to pay my
mortgage. . .<Grin>


have fun,

f


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Wed Nov 20 11:07:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E447C@smtmb.tmc.local>

Thy audience's Web Browsers can't be measured... I've got Web Trends Log
analyzer 5.0 right now and It can't monitor https sites. My site is an https
site. However, I've demo'd their current release 7.0, which claims it can,
but can't for some odd reason. Anyone have/had 7.0 and can tell me how to
monitor https sites?

Thanks

Rob.Smith


From: Fortune Elkins [mailto:fortune_elkins at summithq.com]

[snip]
know thy audience!
[/snip]


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 11:11:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
Message-ID: <20021120171002.27900.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all, I am trying to disallow a deletion of a category if a
category exists already in a table. Here is my code:

//first check and see if the category is being used. If it is,
disallow deletion

$result = @mysql_query("SELECT item FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID =
$id");
if($result)
{
	$message = "Oops! You cannot delete that category, it is being used!
If you really wish to delete this category, you must first remove it
from any menu item that refers to it. - ";

	header("Location: manage_cat.php?message=".$message);
}

I added a test category that is NOT in the menuitem table. Yet it
always tells me I can't delete it because it exists. I'm guessing
this has something to do with the way I set it up (if($result)??)

When I print out the $result I get "RESOURCE id" instead of the sql
so I'm wondering if my logic is wrong..

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From zamba at zamba.com  Wed Nov 20 11:15:01 2002
From: zamba at zamba.com (Tony Page)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
In-Reply-To: <F77rXBj73KjXG3d0TKY00020e50@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004401c29088$fa0e7a40$8e01a8c0@Workstation>

Yep, all later versions of Outlook default to stopping scripts, which
can obviously be used for nefarious purposes should one choose, and as
ppk says, a good thing too!

Tony Page

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Peter-Paul Koch
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2002 9:30 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] office xp and Javascript
>
>
>
>
> >I have a coldfusion page that  uses cfmail tag to sent mail.
> The mail
> >is sent in HTML format and in the mail, i have attached an
> onload event
> >which should fire when one reads a mail.
>
> What a perfectly terrible thing to do.
>
> >The event fires when one is using office 2000 but doesn't fire with
> >office xp.
>
> Good for XP, I'd say.
>
> Sorry for the off-topic mail, but JavaScript doesn't belong
> in mail and even less in Office.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/ Column "Keep it Simple":
http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
New: Interview by Carole Guevin:
http://netdiver.net/interviews/peterpaulkoch.php
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !



From neal at constructweb.com  Wed Nov 20 11:44:00 2002
From: neal at constructweb.com (construct)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
References: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C52A5@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <009201c290bd$27adde80$370914ac@nwatkins>

this has probably been around the block a bit

any message board suggestions?

east to deploy (free)

PHP preferably


thanks

Neal




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 11:46:01 2002
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
Message-ID: <F16uaVUw1eNhTwuAjTs00022341@hotmail.com>


> >:1: Internet Explorer - IE6 + IE5 = 94%
> >:2: Netscape Navigator - N5 + N4 = 2%
> >:3: Opera
> >:4: Mozilla
> >:5. Other

Mozilla on 3rd place, Opera on fourth in my stats.

> >Opera is in 3rd place but accounts to 0% in view of total audience
> >
>
>Considering that Opera is able to "disguise" itself as other browsers (like
>IE), Opera's numbers are probably low.  However, I would suspect that the
>order is right even if the numbers aren't accurate.

The browser string always contains 'Opera', though, so reliably detecting it
is quite possible. Of course most browser detect scripts are very badly
written.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
New: Interview by Carole Guevin:
http://netdiver.net/interviews/peterpaulkoch.php
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Wed Nov 20 11:49:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBEEGKCDAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BA010AD2.2E0B3%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/19/02 8:25 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:

> I've changed the connection string to an SQL DNS one and now it's adding the
> an id, but it's the wrong id.
As Eric suggested, make sure that you tables are set up as you expect,
particularly that your id is, in fact, of a numeric datatype (I've seen
upsizing change numeric fields into varchars), set to be IDENTITY(1,1) (or
whatever you want your starting number and steps to be), and set as a
primary key. IF all those things are true, THEN you should ALWAYS get the
right result by SELECTing @@IDENTITY.

Did you get the expected result using the recordset method you'd earlier
used with Access? If not, try.

Wade



From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com  Wed Nov 20 11:50:00 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Wed Nov 20 11:50:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FEA4E9D4@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

Snitz Forums - hmmm probably ASP though, as we are Win2000/IIS5. Free... great... love ours.
Janet
www.desmoinesmetro.com/forum


>>>

any message board suggestions?

east to deploy (free)

PHP preferably


thanks

Neal

<<<


From Ed at ComSimplicity.com  Wed Nov 20 12:01:23 2002
From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:01:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4478@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHAEOLEGAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>

> ... Web Browser popularity ...

> 1: Internet Explorer
> 2: Netscape Navigator
> 3: Opera
> 4: Mozilla
> 5. Other

Recently, at a client site, I was forced to look at my work using
AOL.  Based on that experience, I would like to see AOL ranked as
a separate category.  Even though it's built on one of the big boys,
the UI crap that AOL adds gives it a different look and feel.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ed McCarroll                          MailTo:Ed at ComSimplicity.com
ComSimplicity                                      (310) 838-4330
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



From rich at f1central.net  Wed Nov 20 12:02:01 2002
From: rich at f1central.net (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <20021120171002.27900.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAEEMHDJAA.rich@f1central.net>

Tom

IIRC $result will still be true if the select returns no rows. It'll only be
false if the query is malformed.
You need to check (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)

HTH
RIch
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Tom Dell'Aringa
Sent: 20 November 2002 17:10
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query


Hi all, I am trying to disallow a deletion of a category if a
category exists already in a table. Here is my code:

//first check and see if the category is being used. If it is,
disallow deletion

$result = @mysql_query("SELECT item FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID =
$id");
if($result)
{
	$message = "Oops! You cannot delete that category, it is being used!
If you really wish to delete this category, you must first remove it
from any menu item that refers to it. - ";

	header("Location: manage_cat.php?message=".$message);
}

I added a test category that is NOT in the menuitem table. Yet it
always tells me I can't delete it because it exists. I'm guessing
this has something to do with the way I set it up (if($result)??)

When I print out the $result I get "RESOURCE id" instead of the sql
so I'm wondering if my logic is wrong..

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !




From belinda at prodsol.net  Wed Nov 20 12:05:00 2002
From: belinda at prodsol.net (Belinda Johnson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:05:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
In-Reply-To: <009201c290bd$27adde80$370914ac@nwatkins>
References: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C52A5@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com> <009201c290bd$27adde80$370914ac@nwatkins>
Message-ID: <1037811800.3ddbc0582c13c@webmail.prodsol.net>

vBulletin - hands down.

Quoting construct <neal at constructweb.com>:

> this has probably been around the block a bit
>
> any message board suggestions?
>
> east to deploy (free)
>
> PHP preferably


-------------------------------------------------
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From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Nov 20 12:05:07 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:05:07 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <3DDAEBBC.4050902@macrovista.net> <002c01c2903e$4f35c050$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <3DDBD094.5070509@macrovista.net>

David U. wrote:
> Steve Lewis wrote:
>
>>how can you embrace encapsulation while embracing the principle of
>>separation of content and display?

> $product = new productObject($product_id);

> All of those methods could be wrapped in XML, XHTML, WML, PDF, XLS or any
> other format you'd want.  They could be used on search pages, product pages,
> email newsletters, YOU NAME IT!  They are content _in specific_.  With this
> sort of planning you could implement a pretty decent MVCC application.
There is zero separation there.  You must change productObject in order
to update the formatting used.

That is my point.

--Steve



From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 20 12:09:01 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <20021120171002.27900.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120100434.00abd418@popd.ix.netcom.com>

The problem is that mysql_query returns a result resource IF THE QUERY IS
VALID.

Thus, even though there are no rows which match your query, you always get
a result identifier, because you query was valid.

Instead, you need to count how many rows you returned, like such:

$sql = "SELECT ...";
$result = @mysql_query($sql);

if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
{
     $message = "...";
     header("Location:...");
}

At 09:10 AM 11/20/2002 -0800, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>//first check and see if the category is being used. If it is,
>disallow deletion
>
>$result = @mysql_query("SELECT item FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID =
>$id");
>if($result)
>{
>         $message = "Oops! You cannot delete that category, it is being used!
>If you really wish to delete this category, you must first remove it
>from any menu item that refers to it. - ";
>
>         header("Location: manage_cat.php?message=".$message);
>}

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info  Wed Nov 20 12:09:08 2002
From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:09:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
References: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C52A5@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com> <009201c290bd$27adde80$370914ac@nwatkins>
Message-ID: <001d01c290bf$caad3f20$9865fea9@shauna2k>

I'm currently playing with eXtreme Message Board: http://www.xmbforum.com/
And I've used phbBB before with great results: http://www.phpbb.com/

Shaun

----- Original Message -----
From: "construct" <neal at constructweb.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: [thelist] message boards


> this has probably been around the block a bit
>
> any message board suggestions?
>
> east to deploy (free)
>
> PHP preferably
>
>
> thanks
>
> Neal
>
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 12:09:19 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:09:19 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query [solved]
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAEEMHDJAA.rich@f1central.net>
Message-ID: <20021120180856.35530.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Rich Gray <rich at f1central.net> wrote:
> Tom
>
> IIRC $result will still be true if the select returns no rows.
> It'll only be
> false if the query is malformed.
> You need to check (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)

Thank you Rich, that was indeed perfect!

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From dan at danromanchik.com  Wed Nov 20 12:11:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
References: <BA010AD2.2E0B3%wade_lists@runstrong.com>
Message-ID: <036f01c290c0$25079650$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

phorum.org.

Easy to install and customize, and on all the sites I've installed it, the
users find it easy to use.

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wade Armstrong" <wade_lists at runstrong.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL


> on 11/19/02 8:25 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:
>
> > I've changed the connection string to an SQL DNS one and now it's adding
the
> > an id, but it's the wrong id.
> As Eric suggested, make sure that you tables are set up as you expect,
> particularly that your id is, in fact, of a numeric datatype (I've seen
> upsizing change numeric fields into varchars), set to be IDENTITY(1,1) (or
> whatever you want your starting number and steps to be), and set as a
> primary key. IF all those things are true, THEN you should ALWAYS get the
> right result by SELECTing @@IDENTITY.
>
> Did you get the expected result using the recordset method you'd earlier
> used with Access? If not, try.
>
> Wade
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From dragon-vision at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 12:11:23 2002
From: dragon-vision at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:11:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our organization
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0B5@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0B5@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <a05200f03ba017fde4228@[68.35.112.212]>

Forged headers in e-mail is so common as to be commonplace.  Go to
Spamcop.net and use that service, Support it and you will be
surprised as to how easily the real culprit is located.

As for open relay servers how do you know?

Spamcop can also point you to open relay testers and other resources
to help solve this problem.

At 4:53 PM -0800 11/19/02, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Max Kanat-Alexander [mailto:maxka at cats.ucsc.edu]
>>  Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:31 PM
>>  To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>>  Subject: Re: [thelist] Returned mail that did not originate at our
>>  organization
>>
>>
>>
>>           There is another possibility that nobody's mentioned yet.
>>
>>           There's a new spammer tack where they send email
>>  with headers like
>>  this:
>>
>>           (Pretend that you're "you at yahoo.com")
>>
>>           To: you at aol.com
>>           From: you at yahoo.com
>>
>>           Of course, you at aol.com doesn't exist, so aol.com
>>  bounces back the
>>  spammer's email to you. (And it was originally intended for
>>  you.) For the
>>  spammer, the best part about it is that AOL doesn't preserve
>>  all of the
>>  headers, so you can't trace where the email originally came from.
>
>sneeky bastards!
>
>that is a very good idea, and sounds likely.
>
>when we get another email like the one in question i'll look into that
>being a possibility and see if it makes sense.
>
>
>thanks,
>chris.
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens Webmaster Dragon Vision Design

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 12:19:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
References: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAEEMHDJAA.rich@f1central.net>
Message-ID: <004b01c290c1$2a507900$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> You need to check (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)

tom, if you just want to find out whether the category is being used,
you don't need return all the items like you're doing with this --

   SELECT item
        FROM menuitem
            WHERE categoryID =  $id

do this instead --

  SELECT count(*) as numberofitems
        FROM menuitem
            WHERE categoryID =  $id

this will always return exactly one row, so then you just test the count


rudy



From Mike.Stenhouse at spiritsoft.com  Wed Nov 20 12:28:00 2002
From: Mike.Stenhouse at spiritsoft.com (Mike Stenhouse)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
Message-ID: <9C9BBF943A786F46BD736E84FA346E084F4BEF@ln-mail.spirit-soft.com>

You could try doing:

"SELECT COUNT(item) AS itemcount FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID = $id"
and then testing for itemcount > 0 to print your error...

My two cents anyway...

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]
Sent: 20 November 2002 17:10
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query


Hi all, I am trying to disallow a deletion of a category if a
category exists already in a table. Here is my code:

//first check and see if the category is being used. If it is,
disallow deletion

$result = @mysql_query("SELECT item FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID =
$id");
if($result)
{
	$message = "Oops! You cannot delete that category, it is being
used!
If you really wish to delete this category, you must first remove it
from any menu item that refers to it. - ";

	header("Location: manage_cat.php?message=".$message);
}

I added a test category that is NOT in the menuitem table. Yet it
always tells me I can't delete it because it exists. I'm guessing
this has something to do with the way I set it up (if($result)??)

When I print out the $result I get "RESOURCE id" instead of the sql
so I'm wondering if my logic is wrong..

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the named individual and may not be disseminated without prior permission.  If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message in error and delete this e-message from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, delayed in transmission, incomplete, or may contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this Message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any software or services.

________________________________________________________________________
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service. http://www.messagelabs.com
________________________________________________________________________


From diotima at btopenworld.com  Wed Nov 20 12:35:01 2002
From: diotima at btopenworld.com (Pauline Caldwell)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] AOL 5 Mac OS 9 what-is-it? (Weird CSS issue)
In-Reply-To: <p05100305ba0112b05cab@[192.168.8.2]>
Message-ID: <A5875440-FCB6-11D6-9859-0003937456AC@btopenworld.com>

On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 10:21 , Geoff Sheridan wrote:

> What is AOL 5 (v20.7) for Mac OS 9? The browser IE5 is also installed
> on the machine, but may not be the only browser on the machine.

Mine's IE4.01, installed when the CD (which I can't find right now)
arrived in February 2002.

Pauline

Pauline's Views of France: http://www.cubica.co.uk/pauline/



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 12:37:00 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
Message-ID: <4a0f2e49b844.49b8444a0f2e@icomcast.net>

I checked the primary key like Eric said and sure enough there wasn't
one, so I added it.  Unfortunately it still didn't solve the problem.

When I fill out the form it adds the member information into agent_tbl
and assigns the primary key 'id' and then adds the zip codes purchased
into zip_tbl and adds a value to the agent_tbl_id field (which it
didn't do until I followed Wade's advice last night).

The problem is, the value of id in agent_tbl and the value of
agent_tbl_id in zip_tbl need to be the same.  Right now it's assigning
an appropriate value to the id field (i.e. 751) but the value it puts
in the agent_tbl_id field is way off (i.e. 4).

Wade, everything worked fine in Access, the reason why I'm switching
to SQL is that I've been reading up on the limitations of Access and
looked at our traffic flow and thought it was about time to upgrade.

Any other ideas?  How about a few (beginner level) questions?  How do
I check relationships in a SQL database?  Would the upsizing wizard
keep existing relationships in tact?


-jeremy


----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Armstrong <wade_lists at runstrong.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL

> on 11/19/02 8:25 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:
>
> > I've changed the connection string to an SQL DNS one and now
> it's adding the
> > an id, but it's the wrong id.
> As Eric suggested, make sure that you tables are set up as you
expect,
> particularly that your id is, in fact, of a numeric datatype (I've
> seenupsizing change numeric fields into varchars), set to be
> IDENTITY(1,1) (or
> whatever you want your starting number and steps to be), and set
> as a
> primary key. IF all those things are true, THEN you should ALWAYS
> get the
> right result by SELECTing @@IDENTITY.
>
> Did you get the expected result using the recordset method you'd
> earlierused with Access? If not, try.
>
> Wade
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Wed Nov 20 12:48:00 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
References: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2057C52A5@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com> <009201c290bd$27adde80$370914ac@nwatkins>
Message-ID: <oprf6bsxkfzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:49:18 -0800, construct <neal at constructweb.com> wrote:

> any message board suggestions?
>
> east to deploy (free)
>
> PHP preferably
>
>
> thanks
>
> Neal

I HIGHLY recommend Invision Board: http://www.invisionboard.com

Free, PHP, MySQL, new version is just now finishing Beta.

Highly customizable, amazingly fast, great support (free and paid). Sizable
community (not as large as phpBB).
I run the newest version on my site and it blows away anything I have used
before (free or paid).

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From evolt at brasscannon.net  Wed Nov 20 12:55:01 2002
From: evolt at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] message boards
In-Reply-To: <20021120180510.C8112BFD2@relay.evolt.org>
References: <20021120180510.C8112BFD2@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20021120185416.GA27474@basilisk>

Quote "construct" <neal at constructweb.com>
> any message board suggestions?

YAbb (www.xnull.com) -- Perl, not PHP, but flavorful, skinnable, and
full-featured.  I recently used it to replace a PHP board from EAE,
which was easy to set up and did not require a database, but was also
IE-centric to the point that it blew up when visited by a Mac user.

YAbb has "avatar" icons, registrations, optional acceptance of posts
by unregistered guests, and can email you when someone follows up one
of your posts -- a feature I wanted badly.  And the price is right:
free. The only funky thing was that they apparently packaged the code
on a Windows box, so I had to fix the \r\n line endings when I unpacked
it on my Unix server.

See http://brasscannon.org/webboard/ if you want to try it out --
Evolters always welcome.

> PHP preferably

I took a quick look through SecurityFocus before I downloaded, and there
were zero alerts for YAbb vs "quite a few" for phpBB....  I also looked
at vbForum, which I support on a couple of sites, but my own server has
better things to do with its CPU cycles, and I have better uses for my
cash.  :-)


From TonyLight at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 12:59:01 2002
From: TonyLight at blueyonder.co.uk (Tony Light)
Date: Wed Nov 20 12:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
Message-ID: <002101c290c7$962b31a0$777ba8c0@athlon>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Tom Dell'Aringa asked why the following query always returns a result - so he never gets to delete a category...

> $result = @mysql_query("SELECT item FROM menuitem WHERE categoryID =
> $id");
> if($result)
> {
> $message = "Oops! You cannot delete that category, it is being used!
> If you really wish to delete this category, you must first remove it
> from any menu item that refers to it. - ";
>
> header("Location: manage_cat.php?message=".$message);
> }

I think it is because the SELECT query runs ok.  It might not actually return any rows!
$result would be false only if the query failed for some reason.
Try checking the value of mysql_num_rows($result).
If 0, you can delete your category, else show your error message.

Regards,
    Tony.


--



From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Nov 20 13:13:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:13:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119184555.00ae7828@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DDBE083.3080208@macrovista.net>

Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:

>>how can you embrace encapsulation while embracing the principle of
>>separation of content and display?

>          The best way? Make objects that generate HTML with CSS classes.
> Instead of setting style="color: red" on the inside of your object, set
> class="redObject" (or hopefully some other, better, more descriptive class
> name.)
Consider, the CSS classes used should belong to the object's class as
well to achieve 'total' encapsulation.  You should know the rules and
understand the rules before you break the rules.  The CSS classes do
manipulate objects of that class.  Also consider the potential for
bloating your stylesheet and HTML.  In some cases having predefined CSS
classes for everything may be good enough.  In some cases it will not.

Regarless of where you put the CSS classes, consider the object we are
working with is an article.  Articles may have many different pieces:
title, author, print and web publication dates, source (for syndicated
content), abstract...  You may need many css classes to display that
object correctly.  Do you trust that you can predict (when you write the
class) all the ways someone may want to manipulate this object's
display?  What do you do when a marketing type comes and says they need
to add an image right-aligned over here, or when they want to use an
oversize illuminated character in the first word of the first paragraph,
or every paragraph?  Did you put enough CSS classes in there or are you
going back and modifying your class?

When you are given the task of outputing the article in RTF what will
you do?  Write it out then use a HTML-to-RTF tool or modify your class?
   When you modify your class you will need to be careful of
side-effects.  You will also find that before long your class has become
too large to manage, with too many similar output methods all right next
to each other.  This makes the class more difficult to maintain and to use.

I was actually expecting someone to suggest the class outputs XML which
is transformed by XSLT.  Some of the same issues apply, some don't.  We
are stil left with the question of how to serialize the data of an
object for storage (usually in a DB).  Again, you may depend on XML.
Now what sort of overhead are you adding by doing that?  Other questions
need be answered.  This can go on.

My point is that OO Design (particularly encapsulation) seems to create
a paradox or two for the web developer.  These (competing) needs can be
balanced, but in a large project (where OO really shines in the
traditional-application world) those paradoxes can come back to haunt a
project, and have led some web projects to failure.

Understand, there are good uses for classes in web applications, and
they tend to be areas where a data structure is heavily manipulated and
will never live in a DB (such as shopping carts).  I am also, a fan of
OO Design in traditional applications.  Paul's example of the hardware
store is a good example of the value of OO, but for whatever reason his
procedural counter-argument was a bit weak.  You will need to decide for
yourselves whether the value of the OO Design in calculating pricing is
enough to overcome the other problems you might encounter on that road.

--Steve



From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Wed Nov 20 13:15:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <4a0f2e49b844.49b8444a0f2e@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <BA011F15.2E0E3%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/20/02 10:36 AM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:

> Any other ideas?  How about a few (beginner level) questions?  How do
> I check relationships in a SQL database?  Would the upsizing wizard
> keep existing relationships in tact?

Hmmm, this is a stumper. Do you have the CREATE TABLE and ALTER TABLE SQL
statements the upsizing wizard used to create the SQL database?



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 13:27:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <004b01c290c1$2a507900$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021120192634.34909.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
> > You need to check (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
>
> tom, if you just want to find out whether the category is being
> used,
> you don't need return all the items like you're doing with this --
>
>    SELECT item
>         FROM menuitem
>             WHERE categoryID =  $id
>
> do this instead --
>
>   SELECT count(*) as numberofitems
>         FROM menuitem
>             WHERE categoryID =  $id
>
> this will always return exactly one row, so then you just test the
> count

Actually, (I probably didn't make this clear) that would return as
many as there are of that category. There could be 12 items of
category 'lunch', (id=4 say) and so it would return 12..not one.
Unless I have completely misunderstood...(which is entirely possible)

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 13:31:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
References: <20021120192634.34909.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c290cb$457a77d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> >   SELECT count(*) as numberofitems
> >         FROM menuitem
> >             WHERE categoryID =  $id
> >
> > this will always return exactly one row, so then you just test the
> > count
>
> Actually, (I probably didn't make this clear) that would return as
> many as there are of that category. There could be 12 items of
> category 'lunch', (id=4 say) and so it would return 12..not one.
> Unless I have completely misunderstood...(which is entirely possible)


that query will always return exactly one row

that row will have one column, called numberofitems

that column will have a value of 0, or some other number

if it's 0, go ahead and delete the category

rudy



From pkcsunil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 13:34:00 2002
From: pkcsunil at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?v.b.=20sunil?=)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:34:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CreateFolder problem
Message-ID: <20021120193339.88486.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com>

I am facing a problem in ASP.
I want to create a folder at the server side.
I am not able to create it.
I have done the following :

1.I made a new virtual directory called FolderCreation
in Default Web Site.

2.By right clicking the virtual directory and going to
properties i set the local path as C:\Doc..and
Settings\vbsunil\Desktop\Folder.

3.By right clicking the folder named "Folder" in
desktop ,and going to its properties,and under the
security tab i gave All(Full control,i.e all check
boxes checked)Permission .

4.Now i wrote WriteFile.asp in "Folder" and the
contents of which is as follows

<%@ LANGUAGE=VBScript %>
<html>
<body>
<%

Function CreateFolderDemo
Dim fso, f
Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
Set f = fso.CreateFolder("c:\New Folder")
CreateFolderDemo = f.Path
End Function

CreateFolderDemo

%>
</body>
</html>

5.By right clicking C drive and going to its
peoperties and under security tab, i add IUSR_SUNIL
and gave all permissions.

6.Now in the address bar of IE i typed

http://..../FolderCreation/WriteFile.asp

I am using IIS 5.0 and windows 2000 professional.

it is taking long time without displaying anything.and
also no folder is getting created.

I am not able to find the problem .If anyone can help
me in this i will be greatful to him/her.

Thanx in advance
bye,
sunil



________________________________________________________________________
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV.
       visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com


From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 13:56:00 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
Message-ID: <000201c290ce$d3030b50$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

Hi all

I'm struggling somewhat with some XSL.  This is the first time I've
really looked at this area and I can't seem to work out exatly what I'm
doing wrong.  I'm trying to use an XSL for each command to create an
unordered list from a <title> element in my XML file.  All I get is one
lonely bullet point and nothing else!  I've used the working draft
doctype as I need this to work in IE5.

The XML:




From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Wed Nov 20 13:57:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:57:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <3DDBE083.3080208@macrovista.net>
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
 <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org>
 <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
 <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org>
 <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
 <5.1.1.5.2.20021119184555.00ae7828@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021120113118.0233dad8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
[LONG]
At 11:20 AM 11/20/2002, Steve Lewis wrote:
>Consider, the CSS classes used should belong to the object's class as
>well to achieve 'total' encapsulation.

         Only if you're /trying/ to combine content and presentation.
Encapsulation only applies on a certain level. In the case of web
development, encapsulation applies to the content data. I don't see why I
can't generally keep my CSS separate. (Unless I'm mis-understanding your
statement.)
         Even in application development, encapsulation only goes so far.
If I write a program that has a GUI, in Java, it will /look/ different on
most platforms (different fonts, etc) but will contain the same data.

>The CSS classes do manipulate objects of that class.  Also consider the
>potential for
>bloating your stylesheet and HTML.  In some cases having predefined CSS
>classes for everything may be good enough.  In some cases it will not.

         That is quite true. I can see where I might start having to resort
to Javascript or some server-side scripting to generate my CSS. Of course,
as long as I can keep that in a separate file, I've still /pretty much/
separated content and presentation; I have, however, in that case turned
presentation into a coding exercise, which is something to generally avoid.

>Articles may have many different pieces:
>[snip]
>Did you put enough CSS classes in there or are you
>going back and modifying your class?

         Well, now you're just encountering the limitations of CSS. I'll
agree with you there -- in any project, it's impossible to predict every
way that anything might go. That's always been my motto in application
design -- "You have _no idea_ what this code is going to be doing in a few
months."

>When you are given the task of outputing the article in RTF what will
>you do?  Write it out then use a HTML-to-RTF tool or modify your class?

         You're certainly hitting me over the head with the fact that I
should have mentioned an XML solution. :-)

>[snip]
>We are stil left with the question of how to serialize the data of an
>object for storage (usually in a DB).  Again, you may depend on XML.
>Now what sort of overhead are you adding by doing that?  [snip]

         XML doesn't have a terrible overhead, provided it's well-designed.
(I can see where the overhead would be greater than traditional overhead in
current RBDMSes, though.) Also, serialization is a decision that you make
yourself, depending on the project. Hopefully, you have some system (like
CF MX or something even better) that can serialize and deserialize XML
nicely. Or, you make a system.

>My point is that OO Design (particularly encapsulation) seems to create
>a paradox or two for the web developer.  [snip]

         Now isn't that the truth. When I first started making pages, I was
pretty shocked at how "undeveloped" the web-coding paradigm was. (Of
course, now I realize: A language that is basic and allows errors will draw
a larger audience than a strict language.)

         The basic problem we run into is that HTML isn't a programming
language in the _fullest_ sense. We have ways of interacting with HTML
/through/ other programming languages (such as the DOM), but it itself is
just markup. Because HTML doesn't have a strictly defined structure, and it
is SO dependent upon the User Agent, it's pretty difficult to act upon it
with traditional programming concepts.

         This is, of course, one of the things that widespread adoption of
XML and XSLT will hopefully change.

         -Max
--



From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 13:59:00 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Wed Nov 20 13:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
Message-ID: <000301c290cf$33414220$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

I'll try again, and this time try not to hit the wrong key........

Hi all

I'm struggling somewhat with some XSL.  This is the first time I've
really looked at this area and I can't seem to work out exatly what I'm
doing wrong.  I'm trying to use an XSL for each command to create an
unordered list from a <title> element in my XML file.  All I get is one
lonely bullet point and nothing else!  I've used the working draft
doctype as I need this to work in IE5.

The XML:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="tester1.xsl" ?>

<CSID>
<IssueDate>18th November 2002</IssueDate>
<story>
<title>Christmas Party</title>
<summary>Dress code for the event</summary>
</story>

<story type="current">
<title>NXL screen</title>
<summary>Use this screen</summary>
</story>

</CSID>


The XSL

<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3org/TR/WD-xsl">

<xsl:template match="/">
	<xsl:apply-templates />
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="story">
<html>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
body{
background-color:blue;
color:white;
font:10px verdana;
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<h1>CSID page</h1>
<ul>
<xsl:for-each select="title">
<li>
<xsl:value-of select="text()" />
</li>
</xsl:for-each>
</ul>

</body>
</html>

</xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>

Help!

Regards

Francis




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 14:01:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <003c01c290cb$457a77d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021120200039.16490.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
> > >   SELECT count(*) as numberofitems
> > >         FROM menuitem
> > >             WHERE categoryID =  $id

>
> that query will always return exactly one row
> that row will have one column, called numberofitems
> that column will have a value of 0, or some other number
> if it's 0, go ahead and delete the category
>
> rudy

Can you explain it? I don't follow. I realize that AS numberofitems
is a alias that gives you the value of count(*). Thats as far as I
get... I don't follow how its 0 or 1! Especially since there can be
multiple rows of that id...

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 14:17:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
References: <20021120200039.16490.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002101c290d1$c1dee490$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> I don't follow how its 0 or 1!

0 or some other number, 0 being the one you're interested in

> Especially since there can be multiple rows of that id...

well, that's what the COUNT(*) sql function does -- it counts rows

my point is, if all you need is to know how many rows there are, don't bring
them all back into your program (because you aren't using them, right?),
just bring back one number from the database that tells you how many rows
there are

rudy



From evolt at marsorange.com  Wed Nov 20 14:24:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <000301c290cf$33414220$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <F6A98672-FCC5-11D6-8AAF-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

Good afternoon fstorr...

On Wednesday, Nov 20, 2002, at 13:58 US/Central, fstorr wrote:
> All I get is one lonely bullet point and nothing else!  I've used the
> working draft doctype as I need this to work in IE5.
> ......SNIP......
> <xsl:for-each select="title">
> <li>
> <xsl:value-of select="text()" />
> </li>
> </xsl:for-each>
> </ul>


Try replacing:
		<xsl:for-each select="title">
	with
		<xsl:for-each select="//title">

That XPath will select a node set of all <title /> elements from
anywhere in the document.

Mars :)



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 14:30:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <002101c290d1$c1dee490$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021120202924.51745.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
> > I don't follow how its 0 or 1!
>
> 0 or some other number, 0 being the one you're interested in
>
> > Especially since there can be multiple rows of that id...
>
> well, that's what the COUNT(*) sql function does -- it counts rows

aahhhhsooo! So I can do:

if(num > 0)
  ok to delete.

Thanks!

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com


From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 20 14:34:01 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <000301c290cf$33414220$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120122803.04612340@popd.ix.netcom.com>

First of all, your <story> template starts and ends with <html>, which
means that when you do your <xsl:apply-templates/> if you have multiple
<story> elements (as you do), you repeat the entire template, which means
you repeat your HTML document. This might be the root of your problem.

You'll probably want something more like:

<xsl:template match="/CSID">
<html>
<head></head>
<body>
<h1>CSID page</h1>

<ul>
<xsl:for-each select="story">
     <li><xsl:value-of select="title"/></li>
</xsl:for-each>
</ul>

</body>
</html>
</xsl:template>

At 07:58 PM 11/20/2002 +0000, fstorr wrote:
>I'm struggling somewhat with some XSL.  This is the first time I've
>really looked at this area and I can't seem to work out exatly what I'm
>doing wrong.  I'm trying to use an XSL for each command to create an
>unordered list from a <title> element in my XML file.  All I get is one
>lonely bullet point and nothing else!  I've used the working draft
>doctype as I need this to work in IE5.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 14:43:01 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
Message-ID: <4c11f44c4240.4c42404c11f4@icomcast.net>

> on November 20, 2002 1:14 pm, Wade Armstrong at
wade_lists at runstrong.com wrote:
>
> Hmmm, this is a stumper. Do you have the CREATE TABLE and ALTER
> TABLE SQL
> statements the upsizing wizard used to create the SQL database?
>

Nope.  But if you tell me where to find them, I'll re-upsize the
database and keep 'em this time around.

-jeremy




From jyee at vt.edu  Wed Nov 20 14:51:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
References: <3ddac67c$1@fuseware.com> <200211192333.gAJNXuSL006396@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3ddbf834@fuseware.com>

"aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:200211192333.gAJNXuSL006396 at leo.evolt.org...
> this means that if you are relying on JS and reading from the
> history object, how do you handle for non-JS users?  does the link
> not function at all, or not get drawn?
>
> if it's not JS, then how do you determine the previous page without
> a referrer or a variable passed to the current page? what if the user
> came from a search engine to that page?

I usually don't do anything with JavaScript at all these days since all my
code is server-side, but even then, there's still not much point in making a
back link for a page of a report act like the back button of a browser.  My
usual closer for anything gallery/report/slide/documentation like is

<--- Back         ^ Top/Parent            Next ---->

It's the most intuitive method to navigate any hierarchical structure.

> unless the page flow you are in is decidedly linear (like a photo
> gallery with images having a definite start and end), then you could
> simply be adding to the horrible PowerPointification of the web...

There is a reason why the PowerPoint methodology is used so far though -
it's common, and effective.  It certainly doesn't fit every type of page,
but for its target audience, it works wonders.

> people don't always surf a site in the linear fashion we expect, so
> offering a 'next' or 'previous' can often confuse the issue...
>
> given all that, i'm curious what makes you say that users are
> attracted to large blue arrows at the end of web pages... my own
> focus groups have often shown that that is not the case, and that
> users often never make it to the end of the page, instead reading
> only the first few lines and moving on...

If they're casually browing, then they would indeed look for only points of
interest.  If they're reading something which contains information that they
already know to be pertinent to them such as this intranet project page,
then you can pretty much know that they'll read all of the page.  My comment
with large blue arrows was that unless the navigational structure is easily
seen and perceived, they'll be confused as to how to navigate from the end
of this page.  I remember a site I was looking at a while back using this
tiny 8x8 pixel image as navigation, and it took me forever to figure out how
to get to the next page because that image blended in so well with the rest
of the layout's color scheme.  Ever since then, I've realized that large
graphics are the way to go for navigation.

--
Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/




From nick at tioka.com  Wed Nov 20 14:58:01 2002
From: nick at tioka.com (Nick Wilson)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] looking for example sites
Message-ID: <20021120205507.GA8138@tioka.com>

Hi all,

Just finishing an article and need some examples of

*   Really Bad 'Fixed Width' Designs (preferably +spinning logos etc ;-)
*   Really *Good* 'Fluid' Designs. (preferably with CSS)

Happy to give someone the link providing it's not a web design site,
your help much appreciated ;-)

Cheers....

--
Nick Wilson     //  www.tioka.com





From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Nov 20 14:59:00 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Nov 20 14:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021120145241.04cf9008@mail.imaginuity.com>

In ColdFusion 5, this:

   <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount>

used to be the equivalent of:

   <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount GT 0>

However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be the case.  The
exact opposite appears to be true.  Does MX change this rule so that <CFIF
Whatever.RecordCount> is checking for the existence of the variable, rather
than a non-zero value of that variable?

If so, why?

(I've done some Googling on this and came up with nothing...)

--Ben



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Wed Nov 20 15:05:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CreateFolder problem
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E4484@smtmb.tmc.local>

This is the segment I wanted to focus on for my reply:

[snip]
I am facing a problem in ASP.
I want to create a folder at the server side.
I am not able to create it.

<%

Function CreateFolderDemo
Dim fso, f
Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
Set f = fso.CreateFolder("c:\New Folder")
CreateFolderDemo = f.Path
End Function
[/snip]

Ok, here's a snippet of code from my own working model (which is not in a
function):

dim fs,fname,path
path = "c:\<path>\<more_path>\<even_more_path>\TempOutBox\Promotional.html"
set fs=Server.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set fname=fs.CreateTextFile(path,true) 'assign a new object the new file
object

My permissions for that folder, for the IUSR_<machine_name> account is full
control. Problems I've had in the past was that my path referenced a folder
on another server in which I used the \\server_name\ format instead of a
local folder. Once I changed the path to be on the same computer (i.e. c:\)
it worked. The script I've provided creates a file, not a folder. I've not
tried to create a folder, but the approach might be the same. If you can't
have the code create a folder for you, you could try using a path like:
"c:\NewFolder\file_I'm_not_going_to_use_because_I_need_to_trick_the_OS_into_
creating_the_folder_for_me_to_store_this_empty_text_file_in.txt"

HTH,

Rob.Smith


From khallman at wrack.org  Wed Nov 20 15:09:01 2002
From: khallman at wrack.org (Kelly Hallman)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:09:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021120113118.0233dad8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211201208250.17223-100000@clove.wrack.org>

Has anyone mentioned or considered where we would be without a DOM or even
CSS, which are both based largely on the same ideas as objects and classes
that are being discussed?  What would CSS be like if it it didn't
"cascade"?  What the DOM would be like if it was a flat namespace?

Like others, I have been mentally wrestling with the best way to "sell"
the OO paradigm to non-OO programmers.  It occurs to me that many people
have probably run into objects before and either did not understand them,
or did not even know they were objects at all!  Though it's likely most
have benefited from the characterists of objects without even knowing!

The usefulness of OOP to the average web programmer's set of problems is
up for debate, as mentioned numerous times.  However, it seems that the
advantages and usefulness of OOP in general is not really up for
debate...unless you like to debate computer science philosophies like
whether or not a filesystem should have structure!

If you don't see the advantages of OOP, it is probably either because
objects are not fully clear to you yet, or because your programming tasks
are not very complex.  That is not to slight anyone - there is nothing
wrong with either situation.  If objects are not clear yet, don't worry...
it can be very difficult to wrap your mind around the concept at first
(even for seasoned programmers not used to working with objects).
Indeed, I was in a haze of OOP pseudo-understanding for a couple of years!

I wish I had some magic bullet example that would make everyone realize
the benefits of the OO paradigm.  Unfortunately, I don't.  For me, it was
learning python, which is a great language if you want to learn OO or
acquire better coding habits (also a powerful, fun, useful language too).

We probably all started out programming without any structure whatsoever.
Remember when you first figured out neat ways to use an array, or the
advantages of utilizing functions?  Learning OOP is all that and more.

--
Kelly Hallman
http://wrack.org/



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Wed Nov 20 15:17:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021120145241.04cf9008@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021120131405.00ae94a8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 12:58 PM 11/20/2002, you wrote:
>However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be the case.  The
>exact opposite appears to be true.

         It SHOULD still work. A RecordCount of 0 should mean TRUE, and any
number that's not zero should mean 1. Print out #Whatever.RecordCount# and
make sure that it's actually zero.

         Reference: Page 50 of "Developing Coldfusion MX Applications with
CFML" (The Manual)

         -Max
--



From michael.buffington at opbu.xerox.com  Wed Nov 20 15:34:00 2002
From: michael.buffington at opbu.xerox.com (Buffington, Michael)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:34:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
Message-ID: <0BF8F21AC2C0D411B29300508B55639904504BE1@UsaWvMS05.opbu.xerox.com>

It should still work. I just tested it on my single developer version of MX and it works fine.

I know you didn't ask for opinion on this, but I can't resist; my personal preference is to use "longhand" for things like this, for a couple of reasons: code readablity, and the fact that some less experienced developers get confused about this (I know, shameful, but true).

By the way, are you getting a specific error, or is it just evaluating to false? Could be that there are indeed no records in the "Whatever" query.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:58 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation


In ColdFusion 5, this:

   <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount>

used to be the equivalent of:

   <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount GT 0>

However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be the case.  The
exact opposite appears to be true.  Does MX change this rule so that <CFIF
Whatever.RecordCount> is checking for the existence of the variable, rather
than a non-zero value of that variable?

If so, why?

(I've done some Googling on this and came up with nothing...)

--Ben

--
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From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Wed Nov 20 15:47:01 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:47:01 2002
Subject: Solved -  Re: [thelist] Oracle "in" question & owed tip 
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BBCF@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Gang,

The problem was that I had a 7 table join in Oracle where one of the
where clauses needed to be changed from testing for one value to
testing for either one of two possible values.  Using an
"IN('value 1', 'value 2')" ruined the performance. [Not that it
was exactly 'stellar' before.  Running for one value was executing
in 4.5 to 5.5 minutes (depending on load on the DB box I guess).]

Anyway, I moved it to a UNION:

Select foo from tablez where stuff and field_z = 'value 1'
union
Select foo from tablez where stuff and field_z = 'value 2'

It timed out on me.  ;-(

Then my nice neighborhood dba suggested adding "hints":

Select /*+rule*/1, foo from tablez where stuff and field_z = 'value 1'
union
Select /*+rule*/1, foo from tablez where stuff and field_z = 'value 2'

Bingo!

Not only did the first run gave me what I was looking for, (and an
extra 600k in output), but it ran in about 16 seconds flat.  Very nice!

I suppose I should go back and try the hints with an "IN" clause - but
the heck with it - it's working now and I don't wanna jinx it.

<tip author="RonL." type="Oracle UNION">

Tried a Union in Oracle and ran into the "ORA-0933:SQL command
not properly ended" error message?

Oracle doesn't like more than one 'Order By' clause:

Select foo from tables where fielda='value 1'
ORDER BY 15, 16, 2, 13, 14
Union
Select foo from tables where fielda='value 2'
ORDER BY 15, 16, 2, 13, 14

is bad,

Select foo from tables where fielda='value 1'
Union
Select foo from tables where fielda='value 2'
ORDER BY 15, 16, 2, 13, 14

is good.

</tip>


Thanks,

RonL.
(Who really needs to read up more on these 'hint' thingies!)


-----Original Message-----
From: rudy [mailto:r937 at interlog.com]

ron, an IN (xxx...) condition probably generates a temp table, which then
has to be merged against other tables, i.e. the intermediate result sets
that the database is building from those 7 tables you mentioned

the optimizer would not set up a loop to repetitively use the single value
lookup method, so if you give it more than one value to test, it prefers to
merge tables, even if it's only two values

i guess i should also state that all of the above starting right after
"ron,..." is total conjecture on my part

oracle guys that can tune a seven-table join from solid experience, rather
than my vague notions, deserve the big bucks they are paid


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Nov 20 15:57:01 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Nov 20 15:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
In-Reply-To: <0BF8F21AC2C0D411B29300508B55639904504BE1@UsaWvMS05.opbu.xe
 rox.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021120153913.04cba9c8@mail.imaginuity.com>

Maybe I should explain myself better.

I have always written code like so:

<CFIF query.RecordCount>
   <CFOUTPUT QUERY="query">
     #whatever#
   </CFOUTPUT>
<CFELSE>
   <p>There are no records for this query.</p>
</CFIF>

Under ColdFusion 5, if there were no records (query.RecordCount IS 0),
<CFIF query.RecordCount> would return false.  If there were any records
(query.RecordCount NEQ 0), <CFIF query.RecordCount> would return true,
outputting the values.

Under ColdFusion MX, no matter what query.RecordCount is: 0, 1, 42, 20
billion, <CFIF query.RecordCount> always returns true as long as the query
is called.

And I know shorthand is (usually) bad, but I've been able to use this
method in conditional processing in basically every language I've ever used
and I'm just not sure why "Mallairia" :) took it out for MX.

Anyway, another example, using JavaScript.  This works:

if (document.forms[0].fieldName.value) {
   // Returns True
} else {
   // Returns False
}

...so that I don't have to write "if (document.forms[0].fieldName.value !=
'')".

Listen to me, I've become a curmudgeon at the ripe old age of 23...

--Ben

At 03:33 PM 11/20/2002, Buffington, Michael wrote:
>It should still work. I just tested it on my single developer version of
>MX and it works fine.
>
>I know you didn't ask for opinion on this, but I can't resist; my personal
>preference is to use "longhand" for things like this, for a couple of
>reasons: code readablity, and the fact that some less experienced
>developers get confused about this (I know, shameful, but true).
>
>By the way, are you getting a specific error, or is it just evaluating to
>false? Could be that there are indeed no records in the "Whatever" query.




From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Nov 20 16:08:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Nov 20 16:08:01 2002
Subject: Why OO? WAS Re: [thelist] php design question
References: <3CD69725-FB6C-11D6-BCA7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com> <002901c28f7f$ac828a50$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8AF2.4090402@members.evolt.org> <001301c28ffe$ad6cf7a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy> <3DDA8E84.9050009@members.evolt.org> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119163920.023cae08@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <5.1.1.5.2.20021119184555.00ae7828@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> <5.1.1.5.2.20021120113118.0233dad8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DDC0984.2080207@macrovista.net>

Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:
> At 11:20 AM 11/20/2002, Steve Lewis wrote:
>
>>Consider, the CSS classes used should belong to the object's class as
>>well to achieve 'total' encapsulation.
>
>          Only if you're /trying/ to combine content and presentation.
> Encapsulation only applies on a certain level. In the case of web
> development, encapsulation applies to the content data. I don't see why I
> can't generally keep my CSS separate. (Unless I'm mis-understanding your
> statement.)
I was simply making the point that if you output html such as <p
class="article">text goes here</p> than your CSS class definition of
P.article belongs to the article OO Class explicitly.  This CSS Class is
a property of the article OO Class, is it not?  And while you could
store { color: red; } or { color: blue; } in the class as a value for
that property, doing so gets you very little.

Yes, encapsulation does have it's limits, but as I said you have to know
the rules and understand the rules before you break the rules.  I would
not go so far as to put the CSS into the object either, but there is a
trade-off the developer must make in deciding where to stop encapsulation.

>          Even in application development, encapsulation only goes so far.
> If I write a program that has a GUI, in Java, it will /look/ different on
> most platforms (different fonts, etc) but will contain the same data.
Do you want to create a web-swing library?  I don't.  Generally, what
you will be doing as a web developer is feeding an object (my 'article'
object for instance) to an output stream handled by a client/server pair
which uses unknown and poorly defined and/or poorly implemented methods
to render the content.  This is much different than handing an object to
a java foundation class object which will format it for delivery to the
OS/window manager.  Without the well defined foundation classes for
display, web developers need help in this arena.

>          This is, of course, one of the things that widespread adoption of
> XML and XSLT will hopefully change.
here here.  I want to also thank Kelly for bringing up that the DOM and
Javascript are OO.  I suppose the problem, to restate clearly, is that
there is no perfect connection between an object in a
servelet/perl/php/whatever and the DOM on the browser.  We do not have
the seamless communication that would allow me to extend the DOM classes
to build a display-method for a servelet/perl/php/whatever class and
hand an object of that class to the DOM display-method.  That sort of
seamless communication is being hinted at with XSLT, with FlashMX & CFMX
integration, .NET applications, etc.  I still don't see evidence that
complete web-OO has arrived, though I look forward to it.

--Steve



From evolt at scottbrady.net  Wed Nov 20 16:10:01 2002
From: evolt at scottbrady.net (Scott Brady)
Date: Wed Nov 20 16:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
Message-ID: <200211201509.AA305529058@scottbrady.net>

>Under ColdFusion MX, no matter what query.RecordCount is: 0, 1, 42, 20
>billion, <CFIF query.RecordCount> always returns true as long as the query
>is called.

What is the query you're checking? If it's a query that returns an aggregate value (such as COUNT(*)), then even if there aren't any records, the query still returns a record with that value = 0, so your if statement would be TRUE in that case.

Scott






From rich at f1central.net  Wed Nov 20 16:33:01 2002
From: rich at f1central.net (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Nov 20 16:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <003c01c290cb$457a77d0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOCEBHDAAA.rich@f1central.net>

At the risk of flogging a dead horse..

FWIW a variation on what rudy has suggested is that you can also use 'select
1 from menuitem where categoryid = $id' ... this will return the literal
number 1 if the row exists and a null value if it doesn't. There's no
significance in using the number 1 but it quite handily equates to true in
PHP...

e.g.

$result = mysql_query('select 1 from from menuitem where categoryid =
'.$id);
if ($result) {
	$row = mysql_fetch_row($result);
	if (is_null($row[0])) {
		// Row doesn't exist
		Blah Blah Blah
	}
	else {
		// Row does exist
		Yada Yada Yada
	}
}


Cheers
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: 20 November 2002 11:30
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query


> >   SELECT count(*) as numberofitems
> >         FROM menuitem
> >             WHERE categoryID =  $id
> >
> > this will always return exactly one row, so then you just test the
> > count
>
> Actually, (I probably didn't make this clear) that would return as
> many as there are of that category. There could be 12 items of
> category 'lunch', (id=4 say) and so it would return 12..not one.
> Unless I have completely misunderstood...(which is entirely possible)


that query will always return exactly one row

that row will have one column, called numberofitems

that column will have a value of 0, or some other number

if it's 0, go ahead and delete the category

rudy



From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Nov 20 17:16:00 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

although i have been to all the common sites with css layouts (glish,
bluerobot, etc.) i have not found exactly what i'm looking. and maybe
it's possible that this cannot be done with CCS1(not sure if that is the
correct reference).

here is what i want to do with css that is easily achievable with
tables. i will write the table out so that you can what i'm trying to
do. (the nested tables are necessary for the look i'm trying to get.)

<table width="100%">
 <tr>
  <td colspan="2">header</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td width="25%">
   <table width="100%">
    <tr>
     <td>menu</td>
    </tr>
   </table>
  </td>
  <td width="75%">
   <table width="100%">
    <tr>
     <td>content</td>
    </tr>
   </table>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

what i've got as far as css goes is this...

#header {
	margin: 2px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid black;
	background: #fff;
	height: 50px;
	width: 99.725%;
	}

#nav {
	position: absolute;
	left: 10px;
	margin: 2px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid black;
	background: #fff;
	width: 111px;
	width: 23%;
	}

#content_container {
	position: absolute;
	left: 25%;
	top: 102px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid black;
	background: #fff;
	}

i do not want to use position: absolute; as it requires me to specify
position regardless of where other parts on the screen are. (thus the
term absolute.) but i tried using relative (along with changing some
other settings which i'm not sure of right now) but it is even worse.


any got the solution?

chris.


From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 17:19:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120122803.04612340@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000001c290eb$19e4bb10$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

You'll probably want something more like:

<xsl:template match="/CSID">
<html>
<head></head>
<body>
<h1>CSID page</h1>

<ul>
<xsl:for-each select="story">
     <li><xsl:value-of select="title"/></li>
</xsl:for-each>
</ul>

</body>
</html>
</xsl:template>

++++++++++++

Hi!

I tried both this and Mars' idea but neither worked...  Any more help
would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Francis




From paul at teltest.com  Wed Nov 20 17:31:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DDC1BAC.2040705@teltest.com>

Have a look at the 800+ css sites listed here:
http://www.meryl.net/css/
You are sure to find something that fits the bill. Then examine their
.css files to see which settings will make it work
- apply the same logic to the structure you want .

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 20 17:32:01 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <000001c290eb$19e4bb10$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120122803.04612340@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120152942.00abbc10@popd.ix.netcom.com>

How bizarre. I took your XML and my XSL and it worked fine for me (IE6/Win2K).

Maybe it's your XSL namespace declaration. Try this instead:

<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">

At 11:18 PM 11/20/2002 +0000, fstorr wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I tried both this and Mars' idea but neither worked...  Any more help
>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Regards
>
>Francis

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 17:36:03 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:36:03 2002
Subject: Solved -  Re: [thelist] Oracle "in" question & owed tip 
References: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BBCF@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <003801c290ed$91e97400$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Select foo from tables where fielda='value 1'
> ORDER BY 15, 16, 2, 13, 14
> Union
> Select foo from tables where fielda='value 2'
> ORDER BY 15, 16, 2, 13, 14
>
> is bad,

correct, a select can have only one order by

it's a common gotcha

the select in this case is a "fullselect" --    ( select union select )

the parts of a fullselect are more properly called subselects

there are other types of fullselect, like intersection and exception...

by the way, congrats on the oracle hints

that is way past beginner level


rudy



From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Nov 20 17:37:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
References: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOCEBHDAAA.rich@f1central.net>
Message-ID: <003901c290ed$957e3380$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> There's no significance in using the number 1

at the risk of flaying the already dead horse some more...

yes, there is no significance in the number 1 (i use it a lot in
WHERE EXISTS subqueries), except for one thing --

you'll get as many 1's as there are rows in the table

if there are thousands of rows, you will get thousands of 1's

maybe it's me, but i'd rather have the slick performance
that comes with getting only one row that contains count(*)

;o)


> but it quite handily equates to true in PHP...

that "handiness" can bite you

ask ben in that other thread on recordcount in cfmx


rudy



From n at industriality.com  Wed Nov 20 17:38:00 2002
From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DDC1CAA.7040205@industriality.com>

On 21.Nov.02 00:15 Chris W. Parker wrote

 > here is what i want to do with css that is easily achievable with
 > tables.

[snipped a bunch of code]

Not sure what it is you're after, but the look you're achieving with
your tables (header across the top, then menu left & content right 2
col) is easily gotten by floating the menu to the left (note: it *must*
have a width in order to float) and assigning a left margin equal to the
width of the menu to the content.

Sump'n like this:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
	<head>
		<title> title me </title>
		<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
		<style type="text/css">
			<!--
			body { padding: 0; margin: 0; }
			div { border: 1px solid black; }
			#header { height: 50px; }
			#menu { width: 25%; float: left; }
			#content { margin-left: 25%; }
			//-->
		</style>
	</head>
	<body>
		<div id="header">header</div>
		<div id="menu">menu</div>
		<div id="content">content</div>
	</body>
</html>

Tweak at your leisure, or specify more clearly what it is you're after.

Best

--
/nik



From dragon-vision at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 17:42:01 2002
From: dragon-vision at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE61@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <a05200f01ba01ccaf91b2@[68.35.112.212]>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I do that entirely with CSS. View
<http://celtic-wisdom.alternative-beauty.com>Celtic Wisdom only 2
pages use tables and no page is left without mostly CSS control.  The
only reason for the table is to produce the book's looks and allow
infinite downward expansion.

If you want the page to really look like your design use absolute to
your heart's content. The average user is improving and on a PC even
runs his 14 monitor at 800*600 which easily can have pages
accommodated for it.

At 3:15 PM -0800 11/20/02, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>hi.
>
>although i have been to all the common sites with css layouts (glish,
>bluerobot, etc.) i have not found exactly what i'm looking. and maybe
>it's possible that this cannot be done with CCS1(not sure if that is the
>correct reference).
>
>here is what i want to do with css that is easily achievable with
>tables. i will write the table out so that you can what i'm trying to
>do. (the nested tables are necessary for the look i'm trying to get.)
>
><table width="100%">
>  <tr>
>   <td colspan="2">header</td>
>  </tr>
>  <tr>
>   <td width="25%">
>    <table width="100%">
>     <tr>
>      <td>menu</td>
>     </tr>
>    </table>
>   </td>
>   <td width="75%">
>    <table width="100%">
>     <tr>
>      <td>content</td>
>     </tr>
>    </table>
>   </td>
>  </tr>
></table>
>
>what i've got as far as css goes is this...
>
>#header {
>	margin: 2px;
>	padding: 10px;
>	border: 5px solid black;
>	background: #fff;
>	height: 50px;
>	width: 99.725%;
>	}
>
>#nav {
>	position: absolute;
>	left: 10px;
>	margin: 2px;
>	padding: 10px;
>	border: 5px solid black;
>	background: #fff;
>	width: 111px;
>	width: 23%;
>	}
>
>#content_container {
>	position: absolute;
>	left: 25%;
>	top: 102px;
>	padding: 10px;
>	border: 5px solid black;
>	background: #fff;
>	}
>
>i do not want to use position: absolute; as it requires me to specify
>position regardless of where other parts on the screen are. (thus the
>term absolute.) but i tried using relative (along with changing some
>other settings which i'm not sure of right now) but it is even worse.
>
>
>any got the solution?
>
>chris.

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens Webmaster Dragon Vision Design

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Nov 20 17:49:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Nov 20 17:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0BC@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nik Schramm [mailto:n at industriality.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:37 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS: layout question
>
>
> On 21.Nov.02 00:15 Chris W. Parker wrote
>
>  > here is what i want to do with css that is easily achievable with
>  > tables.
>
> [snipped a bunch of code]
>
> Not sure what it is you're after, but the look you're achieving with
> your tables (header across the top, then menu left & content right 2
> col) is easily gotten by floating the menu to the left (note:
> it *must*
> have a width in order to float) and assigning a left margin
> equal to the
> width of the menu to the content.
>
> Sump'n like this:

boy was that easy or what?! man i messed around with that for a while
too.

thanks a lot.

chris.


From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Nov 20 18:04:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE63@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris W. Parker
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:49 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS: layout question
>
>
[snip /]
> > Sump'n like this:
>
> boy was that easy or what?! man i messed around with that for a while
> too.

ok. now that i've actually tried it out i can give a more well thought
out response. :(

the problem with this css solution (as opposed to the table i wrote) is
that you can use percentages as widths (which is great) but you cannot
also keep the boxes a fixed width apart. at least, i can't figure out
how. i tried margin-right: 5px; and padding-right: 5px; but those either
affect the inside of their div or the content of the adjacent div.

if i adjust the width of the menu to be less than 25%, say 24%, i get a
space, but that space is 1% wide. but that's not what i want, what i
want is 5px.

would it be possible to make a spacer div that would sit in between the
menu div and content div but had a fixed width? (or is that evil?)




chris.


From rich at f1central.net  Wed Nov 20 18:05:01 2002
From: rich at f1central.net (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query
In-Reply-To: <003901c290ed$957e3380$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOGECADAAA.rich@f1central.net>

yep, if the 'where ...' is loose... then lots of 1's ...

assert(GG->_RIP());

Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy
Sent: 20 November 2002 15:36
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] something wrong with my SQL query


> There's no significance in using the number 1

at the risk of flaying the already dead horse some more...

yes, there is no significance in the number 1 (i use it a lot in
WHERE EXISTS subqueries), except for one thing --

you'll get as many 1's as there are rows in the table

if there are thousands of rows, you will get thousands of 1's

maybe it's me, but i'd rather have the slick performance
that comes with getting only one row that contains count(*)

;o)


> but it quite handily equates to true in PHP...

that "handiness" can bite you

ask ben in that other thread on recordcount in cfmx


rudy

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From todea at escape.com  Wed Nov 20 18:15:02 2002
From: todea at escape.com (Tom O'Dea)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:15:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?
Message-ID: <003101c290f3$01b53260$4b745a41@nunzio>

I'm looking for recommendations or tips on managing an employee manual on
our Intranet. Currently one person updates and manages the employee manual
content. They have it in word format.

In the past we took the word document and broke it up into html pages with
an index page linking to all other pages. However, now they've updated the
manual again and we're faced with redoing all of the html pages or creating
a new method to manage the employee manual updates.

-- tom





From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Wed Nov 20 18:26:01 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russell Unger)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?
Message-ID: <200211201924.AA1517748356@unrealisticexpectations.com>

Check into Macromedia's newest tool:  Contribute.  I believe it's going to end up being around $99 a seat, and it allows for "areas" to specified in Dreamweaver and then designated Contribute users can "browse" to pages and update them.  I believe it's going to support a lot of formats (ie Word).

It's worth a shot.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tom O'Dea" <todea at escape.com>
Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:14:42 -0500

>I'm looking for recommendations or tips on managing an employee manual on
>our Intranet. Currently one person updates and manages the employee manual
>content. They have it in word format.
>
>In the past we took the word document and broke it up into html pages with
>an index page linking to all other pages. However, now they've updated the
>manual again and we're faced with redoing all of the html pages or creating
>a new method to manage the employee manual updates.



From n at industriality.com  Wed Nov 20 18:29:00 2002
From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE63@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE63@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DDC2890.70602@industriality.com>

On 21.Nov.02 01:03 Chris W. Parker wrote

> the problem with this css solution (as opposed to the table i wrote)
>  is that you can use percentages as widths (which is great) but you
> cannot also keep the boxes a fixed width apart. at least, i can't
> figure out how. i tried margin-right: 5px; and padding-right: 5px;
> but those either affect the inside of their div or the content of the
> adjacent div.

Think in boxes. In many ways CSS is all about avoiding potential conflicts,
so if something doesn't work first time, side-step it elegantly. :)

In your case, try wrapping the contents of whatever you want to assign the
5px margin to inside another div and assign the margin to that.

Sumpn like this (5px margin applied to the right side of the menu div,
while keeping the basic 25%/75% page division alive. De facto, the menu
is now 25%-5px wide.):

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
	<head>
		<title> title me </title>
		<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
		<style type="text/css">
			<!--
			body { padding: 0; margin: 0; }
			div { border: 1px solid black; }
			#header { height: 50px; }
			#menubox { width: 25%; float: left; }
			#menu { margin-right: 5px; }
			#content { margin-left: 25%; }
			//-->
		</style>
	</head>
	<body>
		<div id="header">header</div>
		<div id="menubox">
			<div id="menu">menu</div>
		</div>
		<div id="content">content</div>
	</body>
</html>

--
/nik



From shawn at alterior.net  Wed Nov 20 18:37:01 2002
From: shawn at alterior.net (shawn allen)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE63@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE63@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <20021121003320.GC22568@gryphon>

quoth Chris W. Parker:
> the problem with this css solution (as opposed to the table i wrote)
> is that you can use percentages as widths (which is great) but you
> cannot also keep the boxes a fixed width apart. at least, i can't
> figure out how. i tried margin-right: 5px; and padding-right: 5px; but
> those either affect the inside of their div or the content of the
> adjacent div.

If consistent spacing is *that* important, you could always use nested
containing blocks. Just position the outer elements, and style the inner
ones with padding, borders, and margins. In your case, each of your
inner blocks would have a margin-right of 5px. This also frees you from
having to use CSS parsing hacks to change widths in flawed box-model
browsers like IE5/win.

Another solution involves combining percentage widths, positioning, and
negative margins... But you'll need to rely on CSS parsing hacks for
that to work at all. And some browsers will render with annoying 1-2px
variations based on window size, the phase of the moon, etc. Better to
just wait for the CSS3 Columns module. :)

> if i adjust the width of the menu to be less than 25%, say 24%, i get
> a space, but that space is 1% wide. but that's not what i want, what i
> want is 5px.
>
> would it be possible to make a spacer div that would sit in between
> the menu div and content div but had a fixed width? (or is that evil?)

No, not unless you're floating all your columns (which is yet another
solution that I've seen implemented before, but it ain't pretty).

--
shawn allen
  mailto://shawn at alterior.net
  phone://415.577.3961
  http://alterior.net
  aim://shawnpallen



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Nov 20 18:40:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?
In-Reply-To: <003101c290f3$01b53260$4b745a41@nunzio>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021120163150.02a4e8c8@baratta.com>

At 04:14 PM 11/20/2002, Tom O'Dea wrote:
>I'm looking for recommendations or tips on managing an employee manual on
>our Intranet. Currently one person updates and manages the employee manual
>content. They have it in word format.
>
>In the past we took the word document and broke it up into html pages with
>an index page linking to all other pages. However, now they've updated the
>manual again and we're faced with redoing all of the html pages or creating
>a new method to manage the employee manual updates.

You could publish to PDF and provide a link to the manual. Another thing
you could do, is if you are using Word 2000/XP, is publish to HTML, cleanup
with dreamweaver and post.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Nov 20 18:42:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE64@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nik Schramm [mailto:n at industriality.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:28 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS: layout question
>

> In your case, try wrapping the contents of whatever you want
> to assign the
> 5px margin to inside another div and assign the margin to that.

good idea. the reason i didn't think of that is because it reminds me of
tables and i try to keep in mind that i shouldn't use tables for layout
so that idea never came to me. ;) believe me, i am a lover of nested
tables.

we're getting closer. here is the relevant style sheet declarations...

#nav_container {
	margin-top: 5px;
	width: 25%;
	float: left;
	}

#nav {
	margin-right: 5px;
	padding: 10px;
	border: 5px solid black;
	background: #fff;
	}

now the problem is that the border that is defined for the div *within*
the containg box has it's bottom border at the top. like this...

+================+
||              ||
||||||||||||||||||
|| Section A    ||
|| Section B    ||
||              ||
||              ||
||              ||

it should look like this...

+================+
||              ||
|| Home         ||
|| Section A    ||
|| Section B    ||
||              ||
||              ||
||              ||
+================+


the html is thusly...

<div id="nav_container">
 <div id="nav">
  <ul>
   <li>Home</li>
   <li>Section A</li>
   <li>Section B</li>
  </ul>
 </div>
</div>


make sense?


chris.


From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Wed Nov 20 18:58:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Converting VBScript from Access to SQL
In-Reply-To: <4c11f44c4240.4c42404c11f4@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <BA016EB6.2E14F%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 11/20/02 12:42 PM, Jeremy Weiss at jweiss03 at comcast.net wrote:

>> on November 20, 2002 1:14 pm, Wade Armstrong at
> wade_lists at runstrong.com wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm, this is a stumper. Do you have the CREATE TABLE and ALTER
>> TABLE SQL
>> statements the upsizing wizard used to create the SQL database?
>>
>
> Nope.  But if you tell me where to find them, I'll re-upsize the
> database and keep 'em this time around.

Okay, let's try a shortcut. Create a new Access Project (existing database).
Use the dialog to set up a connection to your database. All of your database
tables will appear, and you'll be able to see the definition for the table
you're working on. Tell us what it is.

Wade



From n at industriality.com  Wed Nov 20 18:59:00 2002
From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm)
Date: Wed Nov 20 18:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: layout question
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE64@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE64@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DDC2F9A.7080308@industriality.com>

On 21.Nov.02 01:41 Chris W. Parker wrote


 > now the problem is that the border that is defined for the div
 > *within*the containg box has it's bottom border at the top. like
 > this...

A <ul> is a block-level tag, so there is no need to wrap it in a div.
You can just assign the 5px right-marge directly to the list, which also
means the code looks less like a nested table, which is a valid concern
that I do appreciate.

Try this: (Note that I have nulled the default margins and padding of
the ul in my styles, then redclared some of them later in the #menu.
Lists can be tricky, especially cross-browser, so you might need to hack
some in order to get a consistent feel)

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
	<head>
		<title> title me </title>
		<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
		<style type="text/css">
			<!--
			body { padding: 0; margin: 0; }
			div { border: 1px dotted black; }
			ul { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; }
			#header { height: 50px; margin-bottom: 5px; }
			#menubox { width: 25%; float: left; }
			#menu { margin-right: 5px; padding: 20px; border: 5px solid black;}
			#content { margin-left: 25%; }
			//-->
		</style>
	</head>
	<body>
		<div id="header">header</div>
		<div id="menubox">
			<ul id="menu">
				<li>Home</li>
				<li>Section A</li>
				<li>Section B</li>
			</ul>
		</div>
		<div id="content">content</div>
	</body>
</html>

That (or something fairly similar) might do it...
--
/nik



From list at zettai.net  Wed Nov 20 19:01:01 2002
From: list at zettai.net (george donnelly)
Date: Wed Nov 20 19:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?
In-Reply-To: <003101c290f3$01b53260$4b745a41@nunzio>
Message-ID: <BA019A38.12094%list@zettai.net>

Why don't you use a wiki? or if you're willing to run Zope it has a Product
called BackTalk which make it easy to manage Book-ish content. Install
reportlab's PDF toolkit and you can convert the BackTalk book to PDF
anytime.

http://backtalk.sourceforge.net/

<-->
george donnelly - http://zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :)
Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion
Yahoo, AIM: zettainet - ICQ: 51907738 - e:george at zettai.net

> From: "Tom O'Dea" <todea at escape.com>
>
> I'm looking for recommendations or tips on managing an employee manual on
> our Intranet. Currently one person updates and manages the employee manual
> content. They have it in word format.
>
> In the past we took the word document and broke it up into html pages with
> an index page linking to all other pages. However, now they've updated the
> manual again and we're faced with redoing all of the html pages or creating
> a new method to manage the employee manual updates.



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Wed Nov 20 19:28:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Nov 20 19:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
Message-ID: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE>

I'm developing a web app with Cold Fusion 5, but I'm not sure that the
issue I'm describing is specific to CF or is related to JPEG's in
general:

I'm using the CF custom tag imagesize to get the width/height of
uploaded
images. I'm finding a problem sometimes with very simple jpeg uploads.
Say the image is 200 x 200. I can upload it to the server and it
remains 200 x 200 (I've checked), but the imagesize tag tells me the
image is 112 x 112.

If I take the same image into Fireworks and re-export, again as a jpeg
with same 200 x 200 dimensions, this time the imagesize tag reports
the correct dimensions.

Is there a known issue with either CF and/or something to do with
exporting jpegs -- eg, corrupt image info in the binary jpeg file?

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com




From evolt at MARSorange.com  Wed Nov 20 20:37:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Wed Nov 20 20:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <000001c290eb$19e4bb10$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <EC3EBF38-FCF9-11D6-B211-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Wednesday, Nov 20, 2002, at 17:18 US/Central, fstorr wrote:
> I tried both this and Mars' idea but neither worked...  Any more help
> would be greatly appreciated.

I had to replace the namespace declaration, like Howard did, in order
to run the transform on both Sablotron and libXSLT. I didn't mention it
b/c you said you had to use the old MSXML engine. So, I don't know how
effective my suggestions will be, as I use XSLT 1.0 compliant engines ;)

Have you ever successfully run a transform with that namespace? The
XPath I supplied works, so perhaps you should tinker with the structure
of the whole transform.

IMHO, I wouldn't use an <xsl:for-each /> to build that unordered
list... it's forcing the XSLT to be procedural (not it's strong point).

The transform might work better (and you will gain a better
understanding of how XSLT works) if instead of the for-each, you use an
apply-stylesheets call (in a special mode):
	<xsl:apply-stylesheets select="//title" mode="buildUL" />

And have your list item template be defined as:
	<xsl:stylesheet match="title" mode="buildUL">
		<li><xsl:value-of /></li>
	</xsl:stylesheet>

Good luck!
Mars :)



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov 20 21:37:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
References: <F16uaVUw1eNhTwuAjTs00022341@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC54AA.90501@members.evolt.org>

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
>
>
>> >:1: Internet Explorer - IE6 + IE5 = 94%
>> >:2: Netscape Navigator - N5 + N4 = 2%
>> >:3: Opera
>> >:4: Mozilla
>> >:5. Other
>
>
> Mozilla on 3rd place, Opera on fourth in my stats.

Of course this just proves the futility of stats. I would definitely
expect Mozilla to outrank Opera on ppk's site, considering the subject
of ppk's site, and the history of opera's js support.

Here goes for the million and third time... the only stats that are
useful for your site are your site's stats.
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 22:04:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Nov 20 22:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql/table design help
Message-ID: <20021121040352.85833.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, me again with more questions on sql and my table design. Here's
the trouble: I have a table that has items. These items sometimes
have more than one size, therefore more than one price. When I list
them, I only want to list the item once, and then all the prices.

Right now I have a item table like this:

+--------+------+-------+
| itemID | item | price |
+--------+------+-------+

So first question: It seems then I will have a one to many
relationship so I should break out the price into another table,
probably an intersection table? Like thus

itemID | priceID

Is this the best way? 2nd q: how to i write the query to get the item
name once, but all the prices? Not sure where to start with that
one...

TOm

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From prosayist at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 22:17:01 2002
From: prosayist at yahoo.com (Dan Stockton)
Date: Wed Nov 20 22:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Do I need a back link?
Message-ID: <20021121041654.57972.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com>

.. as "aardvark" wrote on Tue, 19 Nov 2002 at 18:34:01 -0500;

>if it's not JS, then how do you determine the previous page without
>a referrer or a variable passed to the current page? what if the user
>came from a search engine to that page?

.. to which "prosayist" would like to reply at this time;

does the HTTProtocol not have a HTTP_REFERER variable?? I never use
javascript:history.go(-1) (or whatever) always opting to use (in php)
$HTTP_REFERER mostly cause I'm a stickler for what's displayed in the status
bar but also because I'm aiming for utmost accessibility. If they came from
a search engine (through the back door) there would be no back button and
this method would.. work.

-Dan
( .. but that's just my opinion and very much an assumption and most likely
wrong and furthermore, I prob'ly misinterpreted the question )

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Nov 20 22:48:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Nov 20 22:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql/table design help
In-Reply-To: <20021121040352.85833.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021120203653.01d22878@baratta.com>

At 08:03 PM 11/20/2002, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>Yes, me again with more questions on sql and my table design. Here's
>the trouble: I have a table that has items. These items sometimes
>have more than one size, therefore more than one price. When I list
>them, I only want to list the item once, and then all the prices.

Here's my 2 cents. If rudy disagrees - listen to him. ;-)

         Table_One

         ItemID
         ItemName

         Table_Two
         FeatureID
         FeatureName
         ItemPrice
         ItemID

Then query the data like this:

         SELECT Table_One.ItemID
         , Table_One.ItemName
         , Table_Two.FeatureID
         , Table_Two.FeatureName
         , Table_Two.ItemPrice
         FROM Table_One
         JOIN Table_Two on Table_One.ItemID = Table_Two.ItemID
         ORDER BY Table_One.ItemID, Table_Two.ItemPrice

Then as you loop through your record set, you just ignore the repeats in
the ItemName.

pseudo code

         TrackingID = 0
         While NOT RS.EOF
                 if TrackingID <> TableID then
                         TrackingID = TableID
                         PrintOut strItemName
                 end if
                 PrintOut Feature & Price
         wend

/pseudo code


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From chris at fuseware.com  Wed Nov 20 23:36:00 2002
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Wed Nov 20 23:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <3ddc731d@fuseware.com>

Bob Haroche wrote:
> I'm using the CF custom tag imagesize to get the width/height of
> uploaded images.

   Are you using the free tag CF_ImageSize?  If so, it's buggy with
JPEGs.  It has to do with the way JPEGs stores image size information.
It works great for GIFs, but not reliably for JPEGs.
--
Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 00:11:00 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Thu Nov 21 00:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 20-NOV-02
Message-ID: <200211210610.gAL6A2ia019455@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 20-NOV-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Code: Collapsible page elements with DOM (Author: codepo8)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/45831/index.html

This article shows you how to use DOM Javascript to create
collapsible elements in an HTML  document. It explains the basics how
to do them and how to make them accessible for older browsers.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 01:27:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Thu Nov 21 01:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Xsl for each problems
In-Reply-To: <EC3EBF38-FCF9-11D6-B211-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <000001c2912f$2e3c7640$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

Hi

Yep, changing the declaration on the XSL did work.  I think I remember a
method of placing declarations on a page so that IE5 will pick one then
compliant browsers pick one further down.

Thanks also for the other tip, Mars.  I'll have a look at that when I
get the chance!

Regards

Francis




From cd-ml at aardvark.net.au  Thu Nov 21 03:17:01 2002
From: cd-ml at aardvark.net.au (Craig)
Date: Thu Nov 21 03:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CreateFolder problem
References: <20021120193339.88486.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c2913e$adb33d00$97eadccb@FX>

> I am using IIS 5.0 and windows 2000 professional.
>
> it is taking long time without displaying anything.and
> also no folder is getting created.

Are you using Norton Antivirus? You might need to disable 'Script Blocking' in
it's options.

Craig.




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 04:22:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Nov 21 04:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021120145241.04cf9008@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEDEFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ben,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Ben Dyer
>
> In ColdFusion 5, this:
>
>    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount>
>
> used to be the equivalent of:
>
>    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount GT 0>
>
> However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be
> the case.  The exact opposite appears to be true.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not in any case i've ever tried.  mx upholds the same boolean logic -- 0
equals false and any other number (positive or negative) means true.

i suspect there is something else going on with your query.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Does MX change this rule so that <CFIF
> Whatever.RecordCount> is checking for the existence of
> the variable, rather than a non-zero value of that
> variable?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

that would be a ridiculous change to make to coldfusion code execution.

again, check your query.  dump it so you can see what your query is
producing.  i suspect it's either returning at least one record when you
expect it not to or it's not returning any records when you think it should
be.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From joshua at waetech.com  Thu Nov 21 07:31:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Thu Nov 21 07:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE> <3ddc731d@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <003701c29162$119cb3a0$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Evans" <chris at fuseware.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:34 AM


> Bob Haroche wrote:
> > I'm using the CF custom tag imagesize to get the width/height of
> > uploaded images.
>
>    Are you using the free tag CF_ImageSize?  If so, it's buggy with
> JPEGs.  It has to do with the way JPEGs stores image size information.
> It works great for GIFs, but not reliably for JPEGs.

FYI, I recently started using the free combination of ImageMagick (command
line util) and Alagad's free CT set to simplify access to it.  It seems to
work fairly well for light-weight implementations.

http://www.imagemagick.org
http://www.alagad.com/index.cfm/name-products

I've used imagemagick by itself for fairly substantial batch jobs (80,000+
images resized and overlaid ontop of another image) and it didn't even
hiccup.

Definitely worth a peek, if you ask me.

-joshua



From jasonh at pavilion.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 08:06:01 2002
From: jasonh at pavilion.co.uk (Jason Handby)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
In-Reply-To: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <BCECILFBJDKJHANCJGJAKEFIFPAA.jasonh@pavilion.co.uk>

Hi Bob,

> I'm using the CF custom tag imagesize to get the width/height of
> uploaded
> images.
<snip>

This is probably not an answer to your question, because you're using Cold
Fusion; but all you ASP folk can use the free ImageSize component available
from ServerObjects.

  http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#free



Jason



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 08:07:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <20021120200039.16490.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

just a quickie here.  I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
incase text is more than anticipated and a scoll occurrs I thought I could make
the navigation a top layer instead of introducing frames.  Should I use css? Is
it the hidden: I need to use?

Haven't really used this before as i prefer scrolling :)

Andrew


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From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Nov 21 08:20:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql/table design help
References: <20021121040352.85833.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c29169$0a5a5140$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> So first question: It seems then I will have a one to many
> relationship so I should break out the price into another table,
> probably an intersection table? Like thus
>
> itemID | priceID

that would work but it would be needlessly complex

a price table, with entries like $2.98, $7.98, etc., would have what as its
primary key? the first solution that comes to mind is the price itself, and
then you'd have a table with one column, and -- here comes the kicker -- you
would never need to join to it because the foreign key in whatever table
references the price table carries the value!

anyhow, the thing you want to split out, to normalize, is the size

thus, price depends on the item's size

create table items
  ( itemid  integer  primary key
  , itemname varchar(100) not null
  )

create table itemsizes
  ( itemid  integer
  , itemsize  char(10)
  , itemprice  numeric(7,2)
  , primary key ( itemid, itemsize)
  , foreign key (itemid) references items
  )

note that the primary key of itemsize is composite,
and that one of the primary key columns is a foreign key

many people would declare a surrogate primary key for the itemsizes table
(e.g. itemsizesid), but this is superfluous, unnecessary, and inefficient

to get all the prices for each item,

  select itemname, itemsize, itemprice
      from items
       inner join itemsizes
               on items.itemid = itemsizes.itemid
  order by itemname, itemsize

this will bring back rows that look like this --

  t-shirt   S   9.98
  t-shirt   M   10.98
  t-shirt   L   11.98
  t-shirt   XL   12.98
  shoes  7    40.00
  shoes  8    40.00
  shoes  9    40.00
  shoes  10    40.00
  shoes  11    40.00
  shoes  12    40.00
  necktie  -   29.98

if you want to "suppress" repeated item names after the first in each group,
you will have to do that with your scripting or reporting language (the
"looping" that anthony referred to)

the shoes and necktie examples above illustrate that there might actually be
a deeper problem in your data design, in that some items have the same price
for all sizes, and some items don't have a size, and yet the price is
obtained only by a join to the itemsizes table -- but these considerations
are probably too involved for you at this point


rudy



From evolt.list at sethbienek.com  Thu Nov 21 08:30:02 2002
From: evolt.list at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:30:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEDEFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001201c2916a$6ceac000$8d79b442@tempschedulingsystem.com>

See below. :)

> -----Original Message-----
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Ben Dyer
> >
> > In ColdFusion 5, this:
> >
> >    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount>
> >
> > used to be the equivalent of:
> >
> >    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount GT 0>
> >
> > However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be
> > the case.  The exact opposite appears to be true.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> not in any case i've ever tried.  mx upholds the same boolean
> logic -- 0 equals false and any other number (positive or
> negative) means true.
>
> i suspect there is something else going on with your query.

In CF5 (haven't tested on MX), if a query-of-a-query returns no records,
the recordcount value for the query becomes unreliable.  This is not
based on anything I've read, but on past experience.

Could this be related to the issue you're having?

Seth



From JAMES.A.WILLIAMSON at CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV  Thu Nov 21 08:51:00 2002
From: JAMES.A.WILLIAMSON at CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV (JAMES.A.WILLIAMSON at CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
Message-ID: <OF5DF7EE32.3A250003-ON85256C78.00503788-85256C78.00518748@customs.treas.gov>

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good beginning reference for
ColdFusion.

Thanks

Jim Williamson





From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Thu Nov 21 08:58:01 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russ)
Date: Thu Nov 21 08:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
In-Reply-To: <OF5DF7EE32.3A250003-ON85256C78.00503788-85256C78.00518748@customs.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <001c01c2916e$6dbdcaa0$1503a8c0@autolycus>

ColdFusion MX: From Static to Dynamic in 10 Steps by Barry Moore.  Treat
as a step-by-step and manually perform all of the tasks and you'll be
thoroughly impressed as the doors are opened for you.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
> JAMES.A.WILLIAMSON at CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:51 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good beginning
> reference for ColdFusion.



From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Nov 21 09:09:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Nov 21 09:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
References: <OF5DF7EE32.3A250003-ON85256C78.00503788-85256C78.00518748@customs.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <003201c2916f$ce3c9770$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good beginning reference for
> ColdFusion.

hi jim

ColdFusion 5 by Jeffry Houser
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0072191090/evoltorg02-20

i have not read this book myself, but i have seen someone else's comment on
it, someone whose coldfusion skills i respect greatly --

   "it's not as big as some of the others, which i think is a
    good thing, because it really focuses well on what you need
    to know when starting out. there's alot about developing good
    habits in there too...which some other well-known books [cough]
    are devoid of."
           http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84305


me personally, i learned coldfusion from the documentation, which you can
read for free at the macromedia site --

  Developing ColdFusion Applications

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/cf50docs/Developing_ColdFusion_Applications/c
ontents.jsp



rudy







From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 09:23:02 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Nov 21 09:23:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql/table design help
In-Reply-To: <002c01c29169$0a5a5140$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021121152215.96688.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

Ah, I think I have it - here it is:

# phpMyAdmin MySQL-Dump
# version 2.3.2

# Database : `menufriend`
# --------------------------------------------------------

#
# Table structure for table `category`
#

CREATE TABLE category (
  categoryID int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  category varchar(24) NOT NULL default '',
  blurb varchar(25) default NULL,
  pretext varchar(255) default NULL,
  PRIMARY KEY  (categoryID)
) TYPE=MyISAM;
# --------------------------------------------------------

#
# Table structure for table `menuitem`
#

CREATE TABLE menuitem (
  menuitemID int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  item varchar(225) NOT NULL default '',
  description text,
  price decimal(7,2) NOT NULL default '0.00',
  categoryID int(11) NOT NULL default '0',
  PRIMARY KEY  (menuitemID),
  FULLTEXT KEY item (item)
) TYPE=MyISAM COMMENT='These table describes each item on a given
menu.';


So menuitem is anything on the menu - fries to a steak dinner. Right
now I have the price in there. Category is lunch, dinner, side order,
beverage..etc.

So far I have a menu page where you can view all the items, choose to
edit or delete them and a page to manage the categories.

Tom


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

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From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com  Thu Nov 21 09:37:01 2002
From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Thu Nov 21 09:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql/table design help
Message-ID: <748F417236D57847829976483DEBC0C1025CC8@typhoon.realmetros.realmetros.com>

Every time I've worked with hard goods catalogs, every possible
variation of an item has had a unique SKU that made a perfect primary
key.  So if you sell foos that come in different sizes, and bars that
are one size fits all, here's what my table might look like:

SKU		Category		Price		Long Description
FOO-L		FOO			$3		Foo, Large
FOO-M		FOO			$2		Foo, Medium
FOO-S		FOO			$1		Foo, Small
BAR		BAR			$1,000	Bar

Then you've got the category column (which I would really cross-index
with a category types table) for grouping purposes.

I hope Rudy doesn't rip apart my solution.  : )

-T

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]


Yes, me again with more questions on sql and my table design. Here's the
trouble: I have a table that has items. These items sometimes have more
than one size, therefore more than one price. When I list them, I only
want to list the item once, and then all the prices.

Right now I have a item table like this:

+--------+------+-------+
| itemID | item | price |
+--------+------+-------+

So first question: It seems then I will have a one to many relationship
so I should break out the price into another table, probably an
intersection table? Like thus

itemID | priceID

Is this the best way? 2nd q: how to i write the query to get the item
name once, but all the prices? Not sure where to start with that one...


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 10:20:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Nov 21 10:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] freeware/opensource icons?
Message-ID: <20021121161947.4021.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know of any open source icons for apps? I'm looking for
something like SmartFTP uses. I swear I read somewhere those were
freeware, and I even thought I saw the web site, but for the life of
me I cannot find it again or anything relating to it.

Thanks

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 11:10:00 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Nov 21 11:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] freeware/opensource icons?
In-Reply-To: <20021121161947.4021.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJACEKOLBAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> Does anyone know of any open source icons for apps? I'm looking for
> something like SmartFTP uses. I swear I read somewhere those were
> freeware, and I even thought I saw the web site, but for the life of
> me I cannot find it again or anything relating to it.
>
http://www.iconarchive.com/
http://www.iconfactory.com/
http://www.topicons.com/

Nice:
http://www.matterform.com/index.php?page=/qbullets/index.php


From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Thu Nov 21 11:10:20 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Nov 21 11:10:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE> <3ddc731d@fuseware.com> <003701c29162$119cb3a0$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <004501c29180$c3215c20$9865fea9@Laptop>

> http://www.imagemagick.org
> http://www.alagad.com/index.cfm/name-products
>
>
> Definitely worth a peek, if you ask me.


Yeah, I have peeked at it before but the app I'm working on will be in a
share hosted situation so I don't have control over what can be installed on
the server. The host does currently support cfx_image. Can you recommend a
CF solution that doesn't require additional server installation?

Thanks.

---------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Thu Nov 21 11:13:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Nov 21 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <003801c290fd$252ee0b0$0100a8c0@OFFICE> <3ddc731d@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c29181$1db90a70$9865fea9@Laptop>

>    Are you using the free tag CF_ImageSize?  If so, it's buggy with
> JPEGs.

Thanks for that info. The shared hosting server I'm working with supports
cfx_image. Can you recommend a solution that works with that (doesn't
require an additional server install)?

---------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com  Thu Nov 21 11:16:01 2002
From: kyle.murphy at tempschedulingsystem.com (Kyle Murphy)
Date: Thu Nov 21 11:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SQL 2000] Serialization failure
Message-ID: <000301c29181$eb57be40$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>

Anybody have a quick fix for this SQL Server error?  We're using 2000 &
everything seems to be working fine.  I found a MS Knowledgebase article
on this exact error & they say that it doesn't "really" hurt anything
and to wait for the next SP to get a fix.

I'm just curious as to what it is & how could it possibly affect our
database....

------------------------------------------------------
ODBC Error Code = 40001 (Serialization failure) [Microsoft][ODBC SQL
Server Driver][SQL Server]Transaction (Process ID 54) was deadlocked on
lock resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock
victim. Rerun the transaction.
------------------------------------------------------

rudy?

Kyle

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From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 12:23:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Nov 21 12:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more sql help
Message-ID: <20021121182220.64387.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

Me again on this same project. Rudy was nice enough to help me with
my table structure, but I can't get this query right.

I have 3 tables (shown below). menuitem, category and subcategory.
Each menuitem has a category. I want menuitems to also be able to be
a subcategory of a category as well, so Rudy had me make the
subcategory table.

the 'subParentID' is equal to a categoryID - its a foreign key.

I have the following query that successfully lists out everything in
nice order WITHOUT the subcategories:

$result = @mysql_query("SELECT menuitem.*, category.* FROM menuitem,
category WHERE (menuitem.categoryID = category.categoryID) ORDER BY
category, item");

But I cannot seem to successfully add the subcategories...

Below are the tables:
-----------------------------------
CREATE TABLE category (
  categoryID int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  category varchar(24) NOT NULL default '',
  PRIMARY KEY  (categoryID)
)
# --------------------------------------------------------
CREATE TABLE menuitem (
  menuitemID int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  item varchar(225) NOT NULL default '',
  description text,
  price decimal(7,2) NOT NULL default '0.00',
  categoryID int(11) NOT NULL default '0',
  PRIMARY KEY  (menuitemID),
  FULLTEXT KEY item (item)
)
# --------------------------------------------------------

CREATE TABLE subcategory (
  subcategoryID int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  subcategory varchar(25) NOT NULL default '',
  subParentID int(11) default NULL,
  PRIMARY KEY  (subcategoryID)
)

---------
TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 12:44:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Nov 21 12:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] freeware/opensource icons?
In-Reply-To: <20021121161947.4021.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEENFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

tom,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Tom Dell'Aringa
>
> Does anyone know of any open source icons for apps? I'm
> looking for something like SmartFTP uses. I swear I read
> somewhere those were freeware, and I even thought I saw
> the web site, but for the life of me I cannot find it
> again or anything relating to it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not all free, but all good quality.

http://glyfx.com/

enjoy,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 12:53:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Nov 21 12:53:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
In-Reply-To: <BCECILFBJDKJHANCJGJAKEFIFPAA.jasonh@pavilion.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEENFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

jason,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Jason Handby
>
> This is probably not an answer to your question, because
> you're using ColdFusion; but all you ASP folk can use
> the free ImageSize component available from
> ServerObjects.
>
>   http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#free
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

fwiw, coldfusion can instantiate com objects just fine.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Thu Nov 21 13:11:00 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] WAS and NEW (IS) CSS: rendering problem
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E448B@smtmb.tmc.local>

I maybe having the same problem:

(if I may borrow your ASCII art Chris...)

       +--------------------------------------------+
    /  |                                            |  \
   /   | +----------------------------------------+ |   \
  /    | |   Here Is The Header                   | |    \
 /     | +----------------------------------------+ |     \
 |     |                                            |     |
 |     | +-------+  +-----------------------------+ |     |
 |     | |Here   |  | Here Is The Content Box In  | |     |
 |     | |Is The |  | Question                    | |     |
 |     | |Menu   |  +-----------------------------+ |     |
 |     | +-------+    Here Is The Content Of The    |     |
 |     |              Content Box In Question       |     |
 \     |            |                             | |     /
  \    |            | Here Is Some More Content   | |    /
   \   |            | For The Content Box         | |   /
    \  |            +-----------------------------+ |  /
       +--------------------------------------------+

, but my problem, and I think I know what it is, just looking for another
way of doing it, is my main column on my page is surrounded with a 1 px
solid line around it. I have articles with pictures in them. These pictures
are <img src ... align="right" or ... align="left", thus causing text to
wrap around it. Well the next article is also wrapped around it:

+--------------------------------------------+
|                                            |
|    +-----------------------------+         |
|    | ARTICLE TITLE               |         |
|    | Here Is The article and     |         |
|    | coming up is the XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | picture that is  XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | inside the text. XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    |                  XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | NEXT ARTICLE     XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | Here Is Some     XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | Content for the  XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | next article in the queue.  |         |
|    +-----------------------------+         |
+--------------------------------------------+

When I try to force a line break, this is what happens (<em>after</em> I
scroll up/down):

+--------------------------------------------+
|                                            |
|    +-----------------------------+         |
|    | ARTICLE TITLE               |         |
|    | Here Is The article and     |         |
|    | coming up is the XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | picture that is  XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|    | inside the text. XXXXXXXXX  |         |
|                       XXXXXXXXX            |
|                       XXXXXXXXX            |
|                       XXXXXXXXX            |
|                       XXXXXXXXX            | <-- <br clear="all">
|    |                             |         |
|    | NEXT ARTICLE                |         |
|    | Here Is Some Content for    |         |
|    | the next article in the     |         |
|    | queue.                      |         |
|    +-----------------------------+         |
+--------------------------------------------+

Is there another way I can get the "NEXT ARTICLE" to start on the next line
after the picture without killing my 1 px border?

Thanks,

Rob.Smith


From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 13:11:11 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:11:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] Standard form of words
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAAELKLBAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

Is there a standard from of words to use to invite users to download a
flash plug-in?

I've trawled the flash site and I can't find a link image or a helpful
paragraph about linking to the plug-in.

Anyone got any good examples?

Thanks

Tony

--
NEO organizes my Outlook - check it out:
http://www.caelo.com/a/rl.php3?i=3NTVV



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Thu Nov 21 13:11:30 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:11:30 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEENFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001501c29191$b6486b40$0100a8c0@OFFICE>

> fwiw, coldfusion can instantiate com objects just fine.

I've been working with CF for only a few months. Can you translate the
above for me?

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 13:28:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
In-Reply-To: <001501c29191$b6486b40$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLKEFAFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

bob,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Bob Haroche
>
> > fwiw, coldfusion can instantiate com objects just
> > fine.
>
> I've been working with CF for only a few months. Can you
> translate the above for me?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

check the cfdocs for information on <cfobject>

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From pvandijck at lds.com  Thu Nov 21 13:36:01 2002
From: pvandijck at lds.com (Peter VanDijck)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E448B@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <3DDD3572.CE6FC940@lds.com>

Say you have multiple bookmarklets and are looking at webpage X. You
click bookmarklet A, and it calls the server, a script gets executed but
no page gets sent back, so now you are still looking at page X and you
can click on bookmarklet B if you like and the process would repeat
itself.
Is this practically possible? (using PHP on the server)
Peter


From slewis at macrovista.net  Thu Nov 21 13:40:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server Side Image Resizing Issue
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEENFFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> <001501c29191$b6486b40$0100a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <3DDD382B.9030305@macrovista.net>

Bob Haroche wrote:
>>fwiw, coldfusion can instantiate com objects just fine.
> I've been working with CF for only a few months. Can you translate the
> above for me?

If the shared host supports the ImageSize COM object, or some other COM
object for their ASP clients, than you can use <CFOBJECT type="COM" ...>
to do your image manipulations.

You may find in any case that the CFOBJECT tag has been disabled by your
host so neither of these options will work for you.

Beyond that, it seems to me you should find a host that supports CFMX
and move there or work around the need for dynamic imaging.  You cannot
manipulate images from CF5 without going to an outside module.  Outside
modules (unless the <CFobject type='java'...> option is available to you
but you that would be doubtful) must be installed by the host in any
respectable shared host, and if the only supported outside module is
buggy than your host is begging you to leave.  Be sure to tell them this
too, if this is what it comes to.

--Steve



From slewis at macrovista.net  Thu Nov 21 13:56:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Thu Nov 21 13:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SQL 2000] Serialization failure
References: <000301c29181$eb57be40$1f01000a@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD3C15.6040402@macrovista.net>

Kyle Murphy wrote:
> I'm just curious as to what it is & how could it possibly affect our
> database....
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ODBC Error Code = 40001 (Serialization failure) [Microsoft][ODBC SQL
> Server Driver][SQL Server]Transaction (Process ID 54) was deadlocked on
> lock resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock
> victim. Rerun the transaction.
> ------------------------------------------------------
I might take a crack at this and see if I can shed some light for someone.

WHAT:
A resource deadlock means two threads are trying to make a change to the
same thing (a table perhaps, an index perhaps, a log perhaps, it doesn't
say what) but one of them cannot resolve until the other resolves.  It
may seem hard to think of a circumstance where this can happen, but when
you add the complexity of a transaction which may fire triggers which
may call stored procedures etc... somehow a complex transaction and some
other thread of execution

Think of two men in a long narrow stairway carrying large awkward boxes.
They cannot see each other coming and their boxes crash into one
another.  Neither one can walk backwards even a step with the awkward
package, neither one can get past the other by going forward.  The
resource they both need (the next step in front of them) is not
available to either one of them because the boxes are hanging over the step.

Deadlock avoidance is the job of the thread manager.  In this case the
thread manager fails to avoid the deadlock, but does resolve it by
vaporizing one of the men, and the box he was carrying (Process ID 54).

EFFECT:
One of the transactions being attempted was never commited.  It was
rolled back.  The effects on your data must be left for you to
contemplate.  Sorry, but I don't have many suggestions here.

Hopefully you at least know which transaction was being processed when
the error occured, and with some sleuthing you may be able to determine
which process conflicted with it.  Given that, you may be able to modify
your transactions so that you can avoid the deadlock explicitly by
locking a table well before it is used in that transaction, so that the
resource is unavailable and the deadlock cannot occur again.

--Steve



From djinn at darkdesigns.org  Thu Nov 21 14:18:01 2002
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org (djinn at darkdesigns.org)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
Message-ID: <35148.10.0.0.253.1037909878.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>

[Disclaimer - those who want to tell me to use Google, please delete this
message. I know there are people on this list who are knowledgeable enough
about PHP to point me to the *right* information, not just *all* of the
information.]

No, I don't expect an in-depth explanation on this list, but if anyone can
point me to a good, concise source that they like, I would appreciate it.
I'm especially interested in what kind of things PHP is best at.

Thank you,
Jean Peterson





From rwhitener at DesignOptions.com  Thu Nov 21 14:23:01 2002
From: rwhitener at DesignOptions.com (Rob Whitener)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
Message-ID: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445496@exmail.designoptions.com>

The main php site is pretty good, I just started using PHP in august and it
got me started very well.  I still haven't found the need to go out and buy
a book:

http://www.php.net/

Also, I have seen some pretty good articles on phpbuilder, here is the link:

http://www.phpbuilder.com/

What I can tell you in a quick and dirty way is that if you are familiar
with the syntax and pattern matching of perl, and if you are comfortable
with server side technologies like ASP or JSP, then PHP is a sinch to pick
up.

Enjoy

-----Original Message-----
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org [mailto:djinn at darkdesigns.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:18 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?


[Disclaimer - those who want to tell me to use Google, please delete this
message. I know there are people on this list who are knowledgeable enough
about PHP to point me to the *right* information, not just *all* of the
information.]

No, I don't expect an in-depth explanation on this list, but if anyone can
point me to a good, concise source that they like, I would appreciate it.
I'm especially interested in what kind of things PHP is best at.

Thank you,
Jean Peterson



--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From leemark at isu.edu  Thu Nov 21 14:28:01 2002
From: leemark at isu.edu (Mark Lee)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
References: <35148.10.0.0.253.1037909878.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <3DDD419D.9080503@isu.edu>

What it is:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/introduction.php#intro-whatis

What it can do:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/intro-whatcando.php

A little of both:
http://www.zend.com/zend/aboutphp.php

Have fun.  PHP is great.



djinn at darkdesigns.org wrote:

>[Disclaimer - those who want to tell me to use Google, please delete this
>message. I know there are people on this list who are knowledgeable enough
>about PHP to point me to the *right* information, not just *all* of the
>information.]
>
>No, I don't expect an in-depth explanation on this list, but if anyone can
>point me to a good, concise source that they like, I would appreciate it.
>I'm especially interested in what kind of things PHP is best at.
>
>Thank you,
>Jean Peterson
>
>
>
>
>




From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Nov 21 14:28:11 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:28:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE67@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

i'm trying to use mozilla, opera, and the w3c validator on a site i'm
working on right now. it's an intranet and so is not on a public server.

when i try to reach the site using http://servername/ both mozilla and
opera effectively say "we cannot authenticate so access is denied". how
do i send user credentials with those browsers? (IE does it
automatically).

i looked through the preferences in both programs to see if there was
any sort of authentication thing, but i had no luck.

as well as with the validator, it states that i should have been promted
with a login box, however this is not the case in either ie or mozilla.

do i have any solutions besides moving the document to a public area?


thanks,
chris.


From luomat at peak.org  Thu Nov 21 14:28:37 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:28:37 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
In-Reply-To: <35148.10.0.0.253.1037909878.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211211226100.7719-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 djinn at darkdesigns.org wrote:

> [Disclaimer - those who want to tell me to use Google, please delete this
> message. I know there are people on this list who are knowledgeable enough
> about PHP to point me to the *right* information, not just *all* of the
> information.]

'+what +is php' at google would give you the *right* information

> No, I don't expect an in-depth explanation on this list, but if anyone
> can point me to a good, concise source that they like, I would
> appreciate it. I'm especially interested in what kind of things PHP is
> best at.

<blockquote cite="http://www.php.net">
PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language that is
especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML. If
you are new to PHP and want to get some idea of how it works, try the
introductory tutorial. After that, check out the online manual, and the
example archive sites and some of the other resources available in the
links section.
</blockquote>

It's the first thing on the PHP homepage for pete's sake...




From szh at softhome.net  Thu Nov 21 14:29:00 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
Message-ID: <001201c2919c$b0bb8440$b36581c3@haidersystem>

Hello Experts,
I hope it's not off-topic. If it is then tell me.
Some days ago I created an image for printing on my friend's printer. I usually
save such images on hard drive and then copy them to floppy to take away. On
that day, I saved the image directly on floppy with Photoshop 6. After that day,
PS tries to access floppy (drive A) on each click and every keyboard hit. Now
this is very annoying for me. It not only slows down the PC but also causes the
drive A to produce annoying noise when the floppy is not in there.
Why is Photoshop doing so?
How can I solve this problem?
Thank you,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From rwhitener at DesignOptions.com  Thu Nov 21 14:33:01 2002
From: rwhitener at DesignOptions.com (Rob Whitener)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" flopp
	y)
Message-ID: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445497@exmail.designoptions.com>

This may sound stupid, but have you tried to save another image to a drive
other than your floppy since the incident?

-----Original Message-----
From: Syed Zeeshan Haider [mailto:szh at softhome.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:29 PM
To: Evolt TheList
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)


Hello Experts,
I hope it's not off-topic. If it is then tell me.
Some days ago I created an image for printing on my friend's printer. I
usually
save such images on hard drive and then copy them to floppy to take away. On
that day, I saved the image directly on floppy with Photoshop 6. After that
day,
PS tries to access floppy (drive A) on each click and every keyboard hit.
Now
this is very annoying for me. It not only slows down the PC but also causes
the
drive A to produce annoying noise when the floppy is not in there.
Why is Photoshop doing so?
How can I solve this problem?
Thank you,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com  Thu Nov 21 14:36:01 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Hosts for message forum
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D388C@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

Is anyone using a reliable, reasonably-priced hosting service that is compatible with Snitz forums, a free ASP-based message board system? If so, please let me know who they are. Thanks.
Janet


From list01 at theparagon.org  Thu Nov 21 14:39:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
In-Reply-To: <35148.10.0.0.253.1037909878.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <BA02AEA8.162B%list01@theparagon.org>

> No, I don't expect an in-depth explanation on this list, but if anyone can
> point me to a good, concise source that they like, I would appreciate it.
> I'm especially interested in what kind of things PHP is best at.


Really you should do a Google search. It honestly would reveal a lot of
information. However, You didn't want someone to say that so WHAT IS PHP?

PHP is a language that offers you the ability to store information into a
Database or a language that allows you to do much more than simple
HTML/XHTML can do.

(X)HTML and CSS is for presenting the information while PHP (among many
other languages) allows you to pick what you want to display at when and
where.

For example: You can make your own little email client (like yahoo.com
emails) or make yourself a calendar that can email people a list of people
when something comes close to due date.

You can use it as a CMS (Content Management System) that will store all of
your sites information into a Database and allow non-technical people to
make changes to a website without having to know any code.

Go on any website out there and find something that you would like to have
on your site. More than likely it can be done in PHP.

So is PHP better than Perl, ASP, etc... that's a whole other discussion in
itself. Basically just pick a language and learn it. All the other ones will
fall into place once you've learned one.



-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From pvandijck at lds.com  Thu Nov 21 14:40:01 2002
From: pvandijck at lds.com (Peter VanDijck)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E448B@smtmb.tmc.local> <3DDD3572.CE6FC940@lds.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD445F.C9F89383@lds.com>

Another bookmarklet question:
is it possible to make bookmarklets respond to keystrokes instead of
clicking on them?
Peter


From szh at softhome.net  Thu Nov 21 14:43:01 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
References: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445497@exmail.designoptions.com>
Message-ID: <004701c2919e$e60d8060$b36581c3@haidersystem>

From: "Rob Whitener"
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: November 22, 2002, Friday 1:34 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)


> This may sound stupid, but have you tried to save another image to a drive
> other than your floppy since the incident?

Yes, I have tried many times with the same thing in my mind which you have
thought. But this action went in vain.
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Thu Nov 21 14:50:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Thu Nov 21 14:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
In-Reply-To: <004701c2919e$e60d8060$b36581c3@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNKENDCIAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Did you try uninstalling PhotoShop and reinstalling it? It
sounds like something is wrong with PS.
Nan


> This may sound stupid, but have you tried to save
another image to a drive
> other than your floppy since the incident?

Yes, I have tried many times with the same thing in my
mind which you have thought. But this action went in vain.






From db at bonasource.ca  Thu Nov 21 15:04:01 2002
From: db at bonasource.ca (Dmitri Buterin)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server-side compression/browser decompression
Message-ID: <007501c291a1$89a85db0$d679cfcd@DBBona>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
We need to speed up our ASP.Net based application (it has no graphics
but sends a lot of text data) for slow connections.
In our research we have come across this system http://www.pipeboost.com
It purports to work by integrating with Web server, compressing its
output on the fly - and then says that modern browsers will decompress
it on the fly. Thus, less data is transferred.
We have not used such things before so I wonder if anybody can share
positive/negative experiences with such systems? Any other similar
systems?
This system is advertised to work with ASP. Anybody knows whether it
will work with ASP.Net?

Thanks!

Dmitri Buterin,
e-Business websites + Usability expertise + Offshore R&D cost savings
db at bonasource.ca - cell (416) 505-0094 - office (416) 410-4059

--



From szh at softhome.net  Thu Nov 21 15:08:00 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
References: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNKENDCIAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <008b01c291a2$441d5e20$b36581c3@haidersystem>

From: "Nan Smith"
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: November 22, 2002, Friday 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)


> Did you try uninstalling PhotoShop and reinstalling it? It
> sounds like something is wrong with PS.
> Nan

I want to solve the problem without taking this step.
If the problem is not solved in any way then it will be my last choice.
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From rogerly at bareviking.com  Thu Nov 21 15:09:00 2002
From: rogerly at bareviking.com (Roger Ly)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
In-Reply-To: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF80153970E@postal.homestead-corp.com>
Message-ID: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF8013A1050@postal.homestead-corp.com>

Photoshop has a File->Recent item that stores the last few documents you
saved.  Maybe try clearing that (I'm not sure the best way to do so
except by creating and saving multiple documents until the document that
was saved on the A: drive is gone from the list).

Roger





From evolt at marsorange.com  Thu Nov 21 15:11:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
In-Reply-To: <3DDD3572.CE6FC940@lds.com>
Message-ID: <AAF5CC14-FD95-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 13:35 US/Central, Peter VanDijck wrote:
> Say you have multiple bookmarklets...it calls the server...you are
> still looking at page X...Is this practically possible? (using PHP on
> the server)

Yes.

Peter VanDijck wrote (in a different message):
> is it possible to make bookmarklets respond to keystrokes instead of
> clicking on them?

Possible? Yes. Easy? No no no no no no.

Any true magic-keystroke solution would completely depend on the
User-Agent's [browser's] implementation of bookmarking and OS, since
the bookmarking/favorites sub-systems are client-side, proprietary and
sometimes platform specific.

The the only way I know of to quasi-universally catch keystrokes is
using the HTML "accesskey" attribute. Although AFAIK, this only works
to activate links and give form fields focus in Web pages.

Maybe you could use this functionality, though? Put your scripts on a
page in a small palette-style popped-up window (instead of using
bookmarklets), so that they are available at all times. Give their
links/buttons accesskey attributes. The user would have to bring focus
to your special window [by clicking on it] before hitting the keystroke.

Not exactly "tap-a-magic-button" elegant, but it would work.

Any better ideas out there?

Mars :)



From evolt at marsorange.com  Thu Nov 21 15:23:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server-side compression/browser decompression
In-Reply-To: <007501c291a1$89a85db0$d679cfcd@DBBona>
Message-ID: <36846E9C-FD97-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 15:04 US/Central, Dmitri Buterin wrote:
> In our research we have come across this system
> http://www.pipeboost.com
> It purports to work by integrating with Web server, compressing its
> output on the fly - and then says that modern browsers will decompress
> it on the fly. Thus, less data is transferred.

If you've been reading theList lately, then look back over the past
week at the thread discussing mod_gzip (an HTTP content compression
extension for Apache).

I know you're not using Apache, but on the PipeBoost site ( at
http://www.pipeboost.com/how.html ) it says that it uses zlib
compression. So, PipeBoost is just a commercial, IIS-specific
implementation of gzip content encoding... it will be susceptible to
the same server-load (minor) and proxy/cache (maybe serious) issues as
mod_gzip.

Mars :)



From djinn at darkdesigns.org  Thu Nov 21 15:29:00 2002
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org (djinn at darkdesigns.org)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
Message-ID: <25037.10.0.0.253.1037914081.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>

Thank you for your descriptions and websites. Now that I have read the "What
is PHP" and "What is it good for?" as well as your responses, I have a
specific question. A website that I am only peripherally responsible for
seems to be calling all of it's text using PHP (could be wrong)
http://www.camst.net/. The text isn't contextual or contantly changing or
anything else that I could see using script for. The page also takes *ages*
to load (when I first loaded it I thought there was going to be one heck of
an image file or something).

First, is it common/good practice to use PHP this way?

Second, could this use of PHP be why the page takes so long to load?

Thanks.
Jean Peterson





From evolt at marsorange.com  Thu Nov 21 15:36:02 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:36:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
In-Reply-To: <AAF5CC14-FD95-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <11022B78-FD99-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 15:10 US/Central, MarsHall wrote:
> On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 13:35 US/Central, Peter VanDijck wrote:
>> is it possible to make bookmarklets respond to keystrokes instead of
>> clicking on them?

You might be able to set this up in Mozilla using an XUL overlay:
	http://mozilla.org/xpfe/xptoolkit/overlays.html

But it would require the user to download and install the overlay.

I really don't know much about XUL, so I will drop this topic now ;)

Mars



From rwhitener at DesignOptions.com  Thu Nov 21 15:49:00 2002
From: rwhitener at DesignOptions.com (Rob Whitener)
Date: Thu Nov 21 15:49:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
Message-ID: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445498@exmail.designoptions.com>

Its hard to tell why the page loads so slow.  There don't seem to be any
huge image files to load, there isn't any flash or anything.  PHP itself
wouldn't slow the page down, but how it is used might.  Looking at the PHP
source (whoever built this didn't do very good job of securing it) in the
config.camst.inc file, I see $test="<img src='images/dragon.gif'>";  I
assume this $test variable is used in one of the three framesets to load an
image.  Since I don't see any images of dragons anywhere on the page, or any
images for that matter, the server is probably unable to find it.  That
could be why the page is loading so slow.  Try looking for the image
manually on the server to see if it exists and is in the proper place.
Also, if you want images to load a little faster, you may use JavaScript on
the client side to preload them.  Here is link:
http://www.js-examples.com/example/?ex=515&mode=1&COLOR_OFF=YES  If you
can't discern how to preload images from the code, I think I found alot of
examples on the web by going to google and searching with "javascript +
images + preload"

Enjoy
-----Original Message-----
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org [mailto:djinn at darkdesigns.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:28 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?


Thank you for your descriptions and websites. Now that I have read the "What
is PHP" and "What is it good for?" as well as your responses, I have a
specific question. A website that I am only peripherally responsible for
seems to be calling all of it's text using PHP (could be wrong)
http://www.camst.net/. The text isn't contextual or contantly changing or
anything else that I could see using script for. The page also takes *ages*
to load (when I first loaded it I thought there was going to be one heck of
an image file or something).

First, is it common/good practice to use PHP this way?

Second, could this use of PHP be why the page takes so long to load?

Thanks.
Jean Peterson



--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov 21 16:07:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Server-side compression/browser decompression
In-Reply-To: <007501c291a1$89a85db0$d679cfcd@DBBona>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021121133540.02a5fdf8@baratta.com>

EZBoard uses this technology:

	http://www.wbs.com/

--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From SCaudill at municode.com  Thu Nov 21 16:11:01 2002
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Adressing field values through the DOM
Message-ID: <8BE83ACB4413F246992E7A4EC5DC7D2B2D6A01@exchange.internal.municode.com>

javascript heads,
  the DOM is not my friend.  I want it to be.  have even invited it for beers a few times.  but no good.
here's my problem:
  I have a hidden field whose values are populated by a SQL query.  Those values in turn are brought into an array in a javascript that randomly displays the values in a slick little fade in / fade out manner.  All is well with the ever forgiving IE.  However, it does not jive with a single solitary other browser out there.  Which leads me to believe its an error in how I am adressing the field through the DOM.  this is the string I am using to get the values in question:

document.forms['poparray'].elements['munipop'](i).value

the (i) is a variable that denotes the number of items in the array.  The full source and the script in action (IE only) is available at:

http://neohero.municode.com/munitest
(its the little box on the bottom right)

can someone tell me where I am going awry?

Thanks,
Stephen Caudill
Web Developer
Municipal Code Corporation
www.municode.com
scaudill at municode.com


PS > a good resource on using javascript debuggers would be swell as well (I have RTFM for the Venkman debugger for Moz and it just dont make no sense [look at the silly monkey!] )
PSS> on the off chance .jeff remembers schooling me on the DOM problem I was having last time, please dont beat me up for being thick headed...


From djinn at darkdesigns.org  Thu Nov 21 16:11:19 2002
From: djinn at darkdesigns.org (djinn at darkdesigns.org)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:11:19 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445498@exmail.designoptions.com>
References: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445498@exmail.designoptions.com>
Message-ID: <21595.10.0.0.253.1037916627.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>

Thank you for the comments! I really appreciate it.

Jean Peterson
 -------- Original Message --------
   Subject: RE: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
   From: Rob Whitener <rwhitener at DesignOptions.com>
   Date: Thu, November 21, 2002 2:50 pm
   To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>

   Its hard to tell why the page loads so slow.  There don't seem to be
   any huge image files to load, there isn't any flash or anything.  PHP
   itself wouldn't slow the page down, but how it is used might.  Looking
   at the PHP source (whoever built this didn't do very good job of
   securing it) in the config.camst.inc file, I see $test="<img
   src='images/dragon.gif'>";  I assume this $test variable is used in
   one of the three framesets to load an image.  Since I don't see any
   images of dragons anywhere on the page, or any images for that matter,
   the server is probably unable to find it.  That could be why the page
   is loading so slow.  Try looking for the image manually on the server
   to see if it exists and is in the proper place. Also, if you want
   images to load a little faster, you may use JavaScript on the client
   side to preload them.  Here is link:
   http://www.js-examples.com/example/?ex=515&mode=1&COLOR_OFF=YES  If
   you can't discern how to preload images from the code, I think I found
   alot of examples on the web by going to google and searching with
   "javascript + images + preload"

   Enjoy
   -----Original Message-----
   From: djinn at darkdesigns.org [mailto:djinn at darkdesigns.org]
   Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:28 PM
   To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
   Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?


   Thank you for your descriptions and websites. Now that I have read the
   "What is PHP" and "What is it good for?" as well as your responses, I
   have a specific question. A website that I am only peripherally
   responsible for seems to be calling all of it's text using PHP (could
   be wrong)
   http://www.camst.net/. The text isn't contextual or contantly changing
   or anything else that I could see using script for. The page also
   takes *ages* to load (when I first loaded it I thought there was going
   to be one heck of an image file or something).

   First, is it common/good practice to use PHP this way?

   Second, could this use of PHP be why the page takes so long to load?

   Thanks.
   Jean Peterson



   --
   * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
   http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

   For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
   and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
   Workers of the Web, evolt !
   --
   * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
   http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

   For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
   and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
   Workers of the Web, evolt !





From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Thu Nov 21 16:14:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP source WAS: Use PHP for content?
References: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445498@exmail.designoptions.com>
Message-ID: <oprf8f06b2zwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:50:24 -0500, Rob Whitener <rwhitener at DesignOptions.com>
 wrote:

> Looking at the PHP source (whoever built this didn't do very good job of
> securing it)

I searched the web over and thought I found something on securing my PHP
source, but alas, it was simply about securing my PHP installation.

How does one go about securing their PHP source code?

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From lindsay at redsquare.com.au  Thu Nov 21 16:17:00 2002
From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Adressing field values through the DOM
In-Reply-To: <8BE83ACB4413F246992E7A4EC5DC7D2B2D6A01@exchange.internal.municode.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJCHLKELHFDMNAHNOEICIJAA.lindsay@redsquare.com.au>

> document.forms['poparray'].elements['munipop'](i).value

For a start, try changing (i) to [i]

document.forms['poparray'].elements['munipop'][i].value

AFAIK, using () to access array elements is an IE only thing

--
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 [p] 8596.4000
 [f] 8596.4001
 [w] www.redsquare.com.au



From rogerly at bareviking.com  Thu Nov 21 16:17:10 2002
From: rogerly at bareviking.com (Roger Ly)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:17:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
In-Reply-To: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF801539728@postal.homestead-corp.com>
Message-ID: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF8013A1053@postal.homestead-corp.com>

One more possible cause:

Edit->Preferences->Plug-Ins & Scratch Disks

Make sure your A: drive isn't listed in the Scratch Disk list.

Roger



From lists at prydain.com  Thu Nov 21 16:19:00 2002
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <25037.10.0.0.253.1037914081.webemail@webmail.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPOEELDBAA.lists@prydain.com>

If you're even peripherally responsible for this site, you should
immediately have them change their index.html page to index.php.  Since it's
not a PHP file, the PHP code in that file is not being executed, and is
leaving the include path to the config file wide open for all to see.  And
since your database username/password are in that file, that's a wide open
security risk.

As for using PHP or content, there are a couple of reasons this might be
useful.  One is if the data is dynamic by nature, as you already mentioned.
Another if is there are using a web-based tool to allow people to edit the
content in a database, and generate the site from that.

The reason that I use PHP even with static content is site design.  This
site doesn't have much in he way of look & feel elements, but if you're
including a header and footer file into every page, it makes it incredibly
easy to change the look and feel of a site at will.

An example of this is the "printable version" link I use on my site
(example: http://www.prydain.com/resume/).  All it does is change the $mode
variable of the current page, so it includes a different header/footer
file - this one without all of the navigational elements, and ready for
printing.  If you wanted to do this with static pages, it you would have to
make a duplicate of the content for each look-and-feel you wanted to
maintain.

--ray





-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of djinn at darkdesigns.org
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 1:28 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?


Thank you for your descriptions and websites. Now that I have read the "What
is PHP" and "What is it good for?" as well as your responses, I have a
specific question. A website that I am only peripherally responsible for
seems to be calling all of it's text using PHP (could be wrong)
http://www.camst.net/. The text isn't contextual or contantly changing or
anything else that I could see using script for. The page also takes *ages*
to load (when I first loaded it I thought there was going to be one heck of
an image file or something).

First, is it common/good practice to use PHP this way?

Second, could this use of PHP be why the page takes so long to load?

Thanks.
Jean Peterson



--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !





From evolt at funkwit.com  Thu Nov 21 16:26:00 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE67@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <04c001c291ac$9f25c410$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Chris W. Parker wrote:
> when i try to reach the site using http://servername/ both mozilla and
> opera effectively say "we cannot authenticate so access is denied". how
> do i send user credentials with those browsers? (IE does it
> automatically).

Wild guess here (well, not really, but kind of): you're using IIS as
your web server, and you're using NTLM authentication. IE can
authenticate NTLM automatically (as in, transparently), whereas Mozilla
(and, as far as I know, Opera) can not do it at all.

In IIS5, you want (site) -> Properties -> Directory Security ->
Anonymous access and authentication control -> Edit ->
Authenticated access. I'm taking a stab that you've got "Integrated
Windows Authentication" checked, and not Basic. To enable Moz/Opera
to authenticate, you need Basic authentication enabled.

(if you're using IIS4, it's in a similar spot, but the wording is
different)

Note that passwords for Basic auth are sent in clear text -- if
you're using NTLM now, then people are logging on with Windows
Domain credentials, and if they're using their actual windows logon,
you won't want that sent in cleartext if it's being accessed at
all over a public network. If that's the case, you might want to
look at ssl-encrypting all traffic to the site so you can have it
both ways.

FYI, an enhancement request to add NTLM support to Mozilla is at:
    http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23679

Hope this helps; if you're not using IIS then, well, ignore me.

Cheers,

Paul



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Thu Nov 21 16:26:15 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:26:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEGBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <20021120200039.16490.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021121142447.0228d008@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 06:10 AM 11/21/2002, you wrote:
>just a quickie here.  I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
>incase text is more than anticipated and a scoll occurrs I thought I could
>make
>the navigation a top layer instead of introducing frames.  Should I use
>css? Is
>it the hidden: I need to use?

         You could just put the navigation in its own div, set a fixed
height, and use "overflow: auto"

         -Max
--



From jveillo at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov 21 16:26:35 2002
From: jveillo at bellsouth.net (jv)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:26:35 2002
Subject: [thelist] freeware/opensource icons?
References: <20021121161947.4021.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007801c291ad$023cbd60$3806fea9@watson>

Are you looking for OSI/Open Source graphics? Perhaps these
http://opensource.org/trademarks/ ?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: [thelist] freeware/opensource icons?


> Does anyone know of any open source icons for apps? I'm looking for
> something like SmartFTP uses. I swear I read somewhere those were
> freeware, and I even thought I saw the web site, but for the life of
> me I cannot find it again or anything relating to it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
>
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
> http://www.maccaws.com/
> [Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !



From SCaudill at municode.com  Thu Nov 21 16:28:00 2002
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Adressing field values through the DOM
Message-ID: <8BE83ACB4413F246992E7A4EC5DC7D2B2EB3F9@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Thank ya Lindsay,
  It still works in IE with brackets instead of Parens, but still does not work anywhere else....
Any other takers?

/me thumbs nose, bounces side to side

Stephen

> > document.forms['poparray'].elements['munipop'](i).value
>
> For a start, try changing (i) to [i]
>
> document.forms['poparray'].elements['munipop'][i].value
>
> AFAIK, using () to access array elements is an IE only thing



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Thu Nov 21 16:29:00 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE67@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021121142542.023d6cc8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 12:27 PM 11/21/2002, you wrote:
>do i have any solutions besides moving the document to a public area?

         1) Mozilla has always automatically prompted me for credentials.
Make sure that you haven't messed anything up in the preferences, or
anything like that. Failing that, make sure you have the latest version of
Mozilla.

         2) As far as using the w3c validator on pages that are secure,
here's what you need to do:

         a) Get to the page using IE, and then choose "view source."
         b) Save the source on your own computer.
         c) Use the validator's "upload a file to validate" option.

         -Max
--



From evolt at marsorange.com  Thu Nov 21 16:31:00 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP source WAS: Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <oprf8f06b2zwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <BA87807A-FDA0-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 16:13 US/Central, Alex Ezell wrote:
> How does one go about securing their PHP source code?

PHP is, by default, relatively secure. Of course HOW you build your PHP
scripts and config your server will dictate the inherent security risks
for your server. For the most authoritative explanation of PHP
security, see:

	http://www.php.net/manual/en/security.php

The person who coded that site ( http://www.camst.net/ ) simply made a
mistake. They put a block of PHP code with an include in their index
file, but made that file .html instead of .php. So, if you view the
source of the site's index page, you see that unparsed PHP code,
revealing the name of a completely unsecured .inc file.

Maybe they switched the extension on that file from .php to .html
extension because it was loading so slow as .php. [chuckle]

Mars :)



From ccosta at servidores.net  Thu Nov 21 16:32:01 2002
From: ccosta at servidores.net (Carlos Costa Portela)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Sessions and subdomains
In-Reply-To: <6A9D3DF1-FC97-11D6-B4DD-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211212319170.25605-100000@casa.ccp.servidores.net>

	Thank you very much, Mars. At last, I can do that without using
this variable. (I don't know why it is running).

	Best regards,
		Carlos.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, MarsHall wrote:

> On Wednesday, Nov 20, 2002, at 02:34 US/Central, Carlos Costa Portela
> wrote:
> > 	When I go from one subdomain to other, I miss the session.
> > 	What must I do to solve this problem?
>
>
> AFAIK, you must set the domain of all the session cookies to be the
> same using:
>
> 	session.cookie_domain = "biologia.org"
>
> in all of you php.ini and/or .htaccess files.
>
> See all Session Runtime Configuration directives at:
> 	http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.session.php
>
> Mars :)
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

       [ http://www.biologia.org/ :: portal especializado en Biolog?a ]
 _______Carlos Costa Portela_________________________________________________
| e-mail:  ccosta at servidores.net | home page: http://casa.ccp.servidores.net |
|_____T?dalas persoas maiores foron nenos antes, pero poucas se lembran______|



From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 16:33:01 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Securing PHP source WAS: Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <oprf8f06b2zwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
References: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA6445498@exmail.designoptions.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021121142946.046e7c50@popd.ix.netcom.com>

PHP source code is secured by making sure the browser can't read the source
-- in short, make it so that the file is processed by the PHP engine.

For example, on camst.net, the frameset is index.html, not index.php, and
thus we can see the PHP source code. You would just make sure that all
files containing PHP code (whether they're .php, .inc, .whatever) are sent
by the web server to the PHP engine. How you do it depends on what web
server you're using.

At 05:13 PM 11/21/2002 -0500, Alex Ezell wrote:
>I searched the web over and thought I found something on securing my PHP
>source, but alas, it was simply about securing my PHP installation.
>
>How does one go about securing their PHP source code?

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From nick at tioka.com  Thu Nov 21 16:38:01 2002
From: nick at tioka.com (Nick Wilson)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] public databases
Message-ID: <20021121223907.GA4831@tioka.com>

Hi all

Anyone know of a good source for *public*, downloadable databases?

* Cities/states
* Companies
* Anything!

I'm pulling my hair out googling for stuff ;-)

Thanks...

--
Nick Wilson     //  www.tioka.com





From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Nov 21 16:38:19 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:38:19 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0C7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Cowan [mailto:evolt at funkwit.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:23 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
>
>
>
> Chris W. Parker wrote:
> > when i try to reach the site using http://servername/ both
> mozilla and
> > opera effectively say "we cannot authenticate so access is
> denied". how
> > do i send user credentials with those browsers? (IE does it
> > automatically).
>
> Wild guess here (well, not really, but kind of): you're using IIS as
> your web server, and you're using NTLM authentication. IE can
> authenticate NTLM automatically (as in, transparently),
> whereas Mozilla
> (and, as far as I know, Opera) can not do it at all.

yes, you are correct. iis5. default install so i'm going to assume the
use of NTLM is true.

as far as the SSL thing goes, are suggesting that the site be hosted
from https:// and the authentication turned down to basic?

this is for an intranet site so it's not necessary that it work at all
in anything but ie6 sp1. i was just curious to see how my adventures in
tableless design are going as far as other browsers are concerned. ;)

thanks for the information, i don't think i would have thought of it
being the server's problem.


chris.


From evolt at marsorange.com  Thu Nov 21 16:40:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPOEELDBAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <0CCFC28F-FDA2-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 16:16 US/Central, Ray Hill wrote:
> The reason that I use PHP even with static content is site
> design...SNIP...if you're
> including a header and footer file into every page, it makes it
> incredibly
> easy to change the look and feel of a site at will.

Wouldn't server-side includes [SSI] do this without the overhead of the
PHP interpreter?


> An example of this is the "printable version" link I use on my site
> (example: http://www.prydain.com/resume/).

And a print stylesheet in CSS let you do this without requiring your
user to specifically select a printable version (or you to build a
custom program for to generate them):

	http://www.alistapart.com/stories/goingtoprint/


Just suggesting some hammers for those nails ;)

Mars



From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Nov 21 16:40:12 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:40:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0C8@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Max Kanat-Alexander [mailto:maxka at cats.ucsc.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
>
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> At 12:27 PM 11/21/2002, you wrote:
> >do i have any solutions besides moving the document to a public area?
>
>          1) Mozilla has always automatically prompted me for
> credentials.
> Make sure that you haven't messed anything up in the preferences, or
> anything like that. Failing that, make sure you have the
> latest version of
> Mozilla.

keeping in mind pauls email, do you think it could be because of the
server you are using? is it iis or some other type? that might be why.

>          2) As far as using the w3c validator on pages that
> are secure,
> here's what you need to do:
>
>          a) Get to the page using IE, and then choose "view source."
>          b) Save the source on your own computer.
>          c) Use the validator's "upload a file to validate" option.

oh yeah, i forgot about that possibility.


chris.


From thelist at brucew.com  Thu Nov 21 16:41:01 2002
From: thelist at brucew.com (Bruce Wilbur)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] AOL 5 Mac OS 9 what-is-it? (Weird CSS issue)
References: <p05100305ba0112b05cab@[192.168.8.2]>
Message-ID: <3DDD400D.605@brucew.com>

Geoff Sheridan wrote:
> What is AOL 5 (v20.7) for Mac OS 9? The browser IE5 is also installed
> on the machine, but may not be the only browser on the machine.

My guess is that there's a version of IE 4.5 for the Mac lurking somewhere on the machine.  It does some very weird things to otherwise nice pages.

> tells me will hide CSS from any pre-5 browser likely to be used by
> AOL. The sole exception being IE 4.72 Win - but this guy's on a Mac.

Not true.  IE 4.5 for the Mac *does* know how to @import but *doesn't* know what to do with most of the CSS2 stuff we typically hide there.  And IE 4.72 Win?  Don't you mean NN?




From luomat at peak.org  Thu Nov 21 16:43:01 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE67@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211211442320.15149-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Chris W. Parker wrote:

> i'm trying to use mozilla, opera, and the w3c validator on a site i'm
> working on right now. it's an intranet and so is not on a public server.
>
> when i try to reach the site using http://servername/ both mozilla and
> opera effectively say "we cannot authenticate so access is denied". how
> do i send user credentials with those browsers? (IE does it
> automatically).

That doesn't make much sense.... IE must have supplied credetials at some
point.  Is there a login page?

Unless the login script only allows specific browsers, Moz and Opera ought
to work just fine.

TjL




From luomat at peak.org  Thu Nov 21 16:47:01 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Thu Nov 21 16:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021121142542.023d6cc8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211211444270.15149-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:


>          2) As far as using the w3c validator on pages that are secure,
> here's what you need to do:
>
>          a) Get to the page using IE, and then choose "view source."
>          b) Save the source on your own computer.
>          c) Use the validator's "upload a file to validate" option.

Or, using Opera, press control+alt+V and it will upload the source of the
current page to the validator automatically.

Other Opera keyboard tips & tricks available at
http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/day10-fingerclickinggood/

TjL

(ps - the IIS automatic validation thing with NTLM authentication had
escaped me... that might explain it.)




From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Nov 21 17:06:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE69@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Luoma [mailto:luomat at peak.org]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:44 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator


> That doesn't make much sense.... IE must have supplied
> credetials at some
> point.  Is there a login page?
>
> Unless the login script only allows specific browsers, Moz
> and Opera ought
> to work just fine.

this is correct. ie *did* supply credentials. the key thing to note
though (as paul explained) is that ie used an authentication method that
opera does not support. namely NTLM (according to paul.)

the exact error message that opera gives me is "The server requested a
login authentication that is not supported."

Ctrl-Alt-V... coooooooooool!



chris.


From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Thu Nov 21 17:38:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache security and PHP sessions
Message-ID: <oprf8jweqyzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

Howdy all,
I have an application that uses sessions to store the user info that it
needs to display the correct pages. Right now, the access to these pages is
handled with basic Apache <Directory> security directives. Is there any way
to capture the username that the user uses to authenticate with Apache and
store it in the PHP session?

What I want to avoid is the user authenticating with Apache and then having
to login or enter their username again if the session cookie has been
destroyed or never created.?

I suppose the other option is to move authentication to the script/DB
instead of doing it with Apache. I could do that, but until I can write
that code, is there some way to make the above possible?

BTW, I won't be able to respond again until morning EST, so don't think I
am ignoring follow-ups or questions.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by
allowing  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From dw at clara.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 17:38:10 2002
From: dw at clara.co.uk (David Williamson)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:38:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?
References: <003101c290f3$01b53260$4b745a41@nunzio>
Message-ID: <017c01c291b6$e1d1e5a0$a14c08c3@v5a0p8>

Tom

I have a similar problem at work on the intranet I manage.

Because of the number of MS documents swimming about in the department and
the fact that most people will be either printing them out and / or reuse
them on screen we tend to upload the files and use an ASP script / web page
I wrote to dynamically build web pages.

The script uses Index Server - the indexing and search engine on IIS - to
extract details of a document's properties (title, author, last revised,
etc) and generate a listing of the
files. Works pretty well. Has the advantage that its fairly easy to set up
and adminster. But you do need to take care with filling properties in and
with how you name files. If you're interested I can email you a copy.

I've been playing with Macromedia's Contribute this week. Looks like it
could be really useful but does seem to spray files all over the site.


Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom O'Dea" <todea at escape.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [thelist] employee manual solutions?


> I'm looking for recommendations or tips on managing an employee manual on
> our Intranet. Currently one person updates and manages the employee manual
> content. They have it in word format.
>
> In the past we took the word document and broke it up into html pages with
> an index page linking to all other pages. However, now they've updated the
> manual again and we're faced with redoing all of the html pages or
creating
> a new method to manage the employee manual updates.
>
> -- tom
>
>
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>





From lists at prydain.com  Thu Nov 21 17:49:01 2002
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <0CCFC28F-FDA2-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPKEEPDBAA.lists@prydain.com>

> Wouldn't server-side includes [SSI] do this without
> the overhead of the PHP interpreter?

If what you're including is also static, sure.  But not if you want to
generate a crumb trail, make the tabs and sidebar identify where you are in
the hierarchy, or anything else that requires logic.



> And a print stylesheet in CSS let you do this without
> requiring your user to specifically select a printable
> version (or you to build a custom program for to generate them):

If all you wanted to do was change the elements that the style sheet has
control over (and you didn't care about the people who's browsers don't
support this), that would be great.  But if you want to change the HTML
elements that make up the navigation and look/feel of the site, or you want
your site to behave the same on all browsers, then this trick doesn't cut
it.

And personally, I'd rather have my user click one extra link when they want
to print something than force them to download and install a new browser
(which they may not even have permissions or inclination to do).


--ray




From evolt at funkwit.com  Thu Nov 21 17:49:21 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:49:21 2002
Subject: [thelist] more sql help
References: <20021121182220.64387.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <057f01c291b8$362cf080$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Hey Tom,

I'd love to help, but I'm not sure what this means:
> I want menuitems to also be able to be a subcategory of a category as well

Do you mean:

Category1
    SubCategory1.1
        MenuItem1.1a
        MenuItem1.1b
    SubCategory1.2
        MenuItem1.2a
Category2
    ... etc ...

or do you mean that menuitems ARE actually subcategories? That is,
subcategories and menuitems are different things, on the same 'level'?

I'm just not clear on what you're trying to do... but I'm sure I can
help you if I can bring my thick head to understand.

If you're trying to reach my example above, I would suggest that
you have:
    Category
    --------
    CategoryId
    ....... blah

    SubCategory
    -----------
    SubCategoryID
    CategoryID (references category.categoryid)
    ....... whatever

    MenuItem
    --------
    MenuItemID
    SubCategoryID
    ....... and so on

MenuItem would then just have a SubCategoryId, not a categoryID.

You'd end up with something like this:

$result = @mysql_query("SELECT menuitem.*, category.*, subcategory.*
FROM menuitem, category, subcategory WHERE (menuItem.subCategoryID =
subCategory.subCategoryID) and (subCategory.categoryID =
category.categoryID) ORDER BY category, subcategory, item");

But I'm not sure that that's what you want...


Cheers,

Paul



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 17:58:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Nov 21 17:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021121142447.0228d008@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEHJEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

the nav is within a table so do i just give the table a class "overflow: auto"

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Max Kanat-Alexander
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 22:25
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] layers not frames


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 06:10 AM 11/21/2002, you wrote:
>just a quickie here.  I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
>incase text is more than anticipated and a scoll occurrs I thought I could
>make
>the navigation a top layer instead of introducing frames.  Should I use
>css? Is
>it the hidden: I need to use?

         You could just put the navigation in its own div, set a fixed
height, and use "overflow: auto"

         -Max
--

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From cparker at swatgear.com  Thu Nov 21 18:16:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Thu Nov 21 18:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0CB@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:01 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames
>
>
> the nav is within a table so do i just give the table a class
> "overflow: auto"

i don't think that will work because a table is not a box of any kind. i
don't know what the correct term is but it's just not a box! ;) it's a
serious of rows. so how do you decide when the content has overflowed?
even if you set the height of the table, i think that only applies when
the table is shorter than the height attribute. once it get's taller, it
just ignores the height setting and continues to grow.

you could put the table INSIDE a div and give the div overflow: auto;
that might work. i have never tried it out though.

maybe i'm wrong about all this. someone let me know if i am.

chris.

p.s. notice how i only left the pertinent data from your email in my
reply? i took off all the footers and also your original post and max's
reply. not to be rude or anything but please trim your messages. it
makes the threads a lot easier to follow.


From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz  Thu Nov 21 18:41:01 2002
From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor)
Date: Thu Nov 21 18:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0CB@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <004801c291bf$da417860$c06237d2@oemcomputer>

Including a table within the div as specified will work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W. Parker" <cparker at swatgear.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames


>
> you could put the table INSIDE a div and give the div overflow: auto;
> that might work. i have never tried it out though.
>
> maybe i'm wrong about all this. someone let me know if i am.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca  Thu Nov 21 18:56:01 2002
From: aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca (Aleem Bawany)
Date: Thu Nov 21 18:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
In-Reply-To: <AAF5CC14-FD95-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <000001c2916e$11b52730$0a00a8c0@Aleem>

> On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 13:35 US/Central, Peter VanDijck wrote:
> > Say you have multiple bookmarklets...it calls the server...you are
> > still looking at page X...Is this practically possible? (using PHP
on
> > the server)
>
> Yes.

so would that mean I can simply highlight some content on a random
website, click a bookmarklet and have that fed into my content
management system, which would automatically publish it online... all
with the click of a button?


> Maybe you could use this functionality, though? Put your scripts on a
> page in a small palette-style popped-up window (instead of using
> bookmarklets), so that they are available at all times. Give their
> links/buttons accesskey attributes. The user would have to bring focus
> to your special window [by clicking on it] before hitting the
keystroke.
>
> Not exactly "tap-a-magic-button" elegant, but it would work.
>
> Any better ideas out there?

Since accesskey gives focus to an element, you can embed the javascript
onFocus event to execute your javascript, allowing you to have keyboard
driven events:

<a accesskey="1" href="#" onFocus="JavaScript: doSomething()">Use Alt+1
to Do Something</a>

(it just occurred to me... you might as well consider onKeyPress events)

I was playing around with it earlier, you can view it here:

http://one.com.pk/test/accesskey.html

-aleem



http://www.aleembawany.com



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov 21 19:06:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov 21 19:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache security and PHP sessions
In-Reply-To: <oprf8jweqyzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021121170433.02af3250@baratta.com>

At 03:37 PM 11/21/2002, Alex Ezell wrote:
>Howdy all,
>I have an application that uses sessions to store the user info that it
>needs to display the correct pages. Right now, the access to these pages is
>handled with basic Apache <Directory> security directives. Is there any way
>to capture the username that the user uses to authenticate with Apache and
>store it in the PHP session?

Look for REMOTE_USER in the HTTP Headers.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From chuck at project27.com  Thu Nov 21 19:30:00 2002
From: chuck at project27.com (Chuck Gartland)
Date: Thu Nov 21 19:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
References: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNKENDCIAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <3DDD8882.5000804@project27.com>

Nan Smith wrote:

>Did you try uninstalling PhotoShop and reinstalling it? It
>sounds like something is wrong with PS.
>Nan
>
>>This may sound stupid, but have you tried to save
>>
>another image to a drive
>
>
>>other than your floppy since the incident?
>>
>>
>Yes, I have tried many times with the same thing in my
>mind which you have thought. But this action went in vain.
>

There is a bug in 6.0 (just windows i think), updating to 6.01 should
fix you good.
HtH,
Chuck




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Thu Nov 21 20:07:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Thu Nov 21 20:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0CB@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <3DDD9110.8030204@webtuitive.com>

Chris W. Parker wrote:

>>the nav is within a table so do i just give the table a class
>>"overflow: auto"
>
> i don't think that will work because a table is not a box of any kind.

Semantics about boxes aside, sure, overflow will work with a table
(or better, a tbody, leaving your table's headers and footers fixed)
set to an explicit height.

At least in Moz ... :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 20:15:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Nov 21 20:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more sql help
In-Reply-To: <057f01c291b8$362cf080$3e02a8c0@cusack>
Message-ID: <20021122021452.74312.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Cowan <evolt at funkwit.com> wrote:

> Do you mean:
>
> Category1
>     SubCategory1.1
>         MenuItem1.1a
>         MenuItem1.1b
>     SubCategory1.2
>         MenuItem1.2a
> Category2
>     ... etc ...

That is exactly right. Now I *think* the way Rudy had wanted me to
set it up was that a category could act as a subcategory also..i'm
just not clear on that. But how you wrote it above, is exactly how
i'd want it.


> If you're trying to reach my example above, I would suggest that
> you have:
>     Category
>     --------
>     CategoryId
>     ....... blah
>
>     SubCategory
>     -----------
>     SubCategoryID
>     CategoryID (references category.categoryid)
>     ....... whatever
>
>     MenuItem
>     --------
>     MenuItemID
>     SubCategoryID
>     ....... and so on
>
> MenuItem would then just have a SubCategoryId, not a categoryID.

So you are saying categories would only have subcategories under
them? Problem is sometimes there *aren't* subcategories at all, and
sometimes there are...

Based on that would I still try what you wrote?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From evolt at MARSorange.com  Thu Nov 21 21:04:00 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Thu Nov 21 21:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPKEEPDBAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <F8AC23C7-FDC6-11D6-98A7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 17:46 US/Central, Ray Hill wrote:
> But if you want to change the HTML elements that make up the
> navigation and look/feel of the site, or you want your site to behave
> the same on all browsers, then this trick [print stylesheets] doesn't
> cut it.

When designing with CSS (separating the content from style), print
stylesheets *do* give *all* the design control you thought you only had
in HTML (and more features like: page breaks and absolute size units
(inches, mm, pts...))

Your craving to have your site "behave the same on all browsers" is
converse to the way the Web works. Inherently, sites look different
(and print even more different) in different user-agents. This is a
know fact. This is why CSS is good. Standard styles, baby!

Alternate-media stylesheets are not just a "trick", they are a
standardized means to repurpose HTML content for other uses.


> And personally, I'd rather have my user click one extra link when they
> want
> to print something

The question is: Will they click that print link, or just hit print?

Print stylesheets, which probably the user will NEVER realize are
there, *just work*. In older browsers... the users never know the
difference anyway.

The most useful and profound technologies are the things that simply
work for us, so that we do not have be conscious of what is happening
under-the-hood.

Mars :)



From evolt at funkwit.com  Thu Nov 21 21:28:01 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Thu Nov 21 21:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] more sql help
References: <20021122021452.74312.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <060501c291d6$cea899e0$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Tom wrote:
> So you are saying categories would only have subcategories under
> them? Problem is sometimes there *aren't* subcategories at all, and
> sometimes there are...

Aaah... so you mean:

    Category1
        MenuItem1.1x
        SubCategory1.1
            MenuItem1.1a
            MenuItem1.1b
        SubCategory1.2
            MenuItem1.2a
        MenuItem1.1y
    Category2
    ...

(I think, anyway). MenuItems don't HAVE to be in a SubCategory?

Well, that's different. Do subcategories themselves behave as menu
items, or are they just convenient groupings?

If they're are MenuItems too (that is, MenuItems really live under
MenuItems), then you are trying to represent a true hierarchy in
a relational database. This is a problem that has, over the ages,
proven more likely to drive more people mad than, say, idly leaving
the Necronomicon of Abdul Alhazred sitting in your downstairs guest
lavatory during the summer holidays.

There are a lot of ways to do this: all of them have their flaws.
Some are detailed here:
    http://www.evolt.org/article//17/4047/
I have used the last one to great effect, but by gum it seems like
overkill for you. Look around, one of these might please you.

If they're really just subcategory labels, and hold no other data,
you could possibly take what I gave you before, but either:

1) create a "dummy" subcategory under each category which is for
   "homeless" menuItems. When displaying, don't display the name
   for this dummy subcategory.

   This way is at least moderately awful.


2) Add to the menuItem a 'CategoryID' as well as the 'SubCategoryID'.
   So in the example above, MenuItem1.1x and MenuItem1.1a both have
   the CategoryID of Category1. But 1.1a has the SubCategoryID of
   SubCategory1.1, while 1.1x has a null SubCategoryID.

   You could then use:

    $result = @mysql_query("SELECT menuitem.*, category.*,
    subcategory.* FROM menuitem, category, subcategory
    WHERE (menuItem.subCategoryID *= subCategory.subCategoryID)
    and (menuItem.categoryID = category.categoryID) ORDER BY category,
    subcategory, item");

   where *= is intended as a substitute for whatever mySQL uses
   to do left outer joins (I use SQL Server, and I also use the
   {INNER|LEFT|...} JOIN ... ON syntax, so I'm not sure what you
   want there).

   This is also at least moderately awful.

Without knowing if SubCategories behave like MenuItems, like Categories,
both, or neither, it's hard to know, but hopefully this might give you
some ideas. Simplest solution is probably the second one. If there
are ever going to be *4* layers, rather than 3, then you definitely need
to look at ways to implement hierarchies properly, as in the article
above.

Paul



From liz at zolabola.com  Thu Nov 21 21:56:01 2002
From: liz at zolabola.com (Liz Hincks)
Date: Thu Nov 21 21:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] need javascript guru
References: <20021122021452.74312.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com> <060501c291d6$cea899e0$3e02a8c0@cusack>
Message-ID: <001801c291da$abd890b0$6401a8c0@ZOLABOLA>

any javascript gurus out there tonight willing to put in a
few minutes for a good cause?


https://www.rosies.org/content/h-specialR.htm
(homeless shelter for women)

I don't want the form to submit unless the Grand Total is greater than zero.
( or a check box is checked)

thanks in advance...
Liz

Please, I know this form is somewhat horrible ...but I inherited the site
and will try to build over much better in due time



From evolt at funkwit.com  Thu Nov 21 22:06:00 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Thu Nov 21 22:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0C7@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <063201c291dc$25812b10$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Chris W. Parker wrote:
> as far as the SSL thing goes, are suggesting that the site be hosted
> from https:// and the authentication turned down to basic?

Well, yep. If it's important that it runs in other browsers, that is.

Basically, your options are:
    - just use IE, and stick with NTLM auth
    - switch to https:// (you can make IIS _require_ secure
      access for the site) and change to basic auth
    - change to basic auth, and leave passwords sent in plain
      text. This would be a bad thing.
    - use client certificates instead (insert vomiting noise
      here)
    - turn off the need to auth at all
    - that's about it really

I'd suggest that the first two are probably the most likely candidates.
3 is an option if you're sure that the passwords can't be sniffed, or
if you don't much care if they are. If the machine is publically
accessible and you choose #3, come over here so I can slap you upside
the head.

> thanks for the information, i don't think i would have thought of it
> being the server's problem.

IIS is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped
in a confusing admin interface. You learn something new about it every
day.

Of course, this could just as easily happen with any other web server
that serves up an auth method that IE, say, doesn't understand (if
there are any). It's just that NTLM is the default, which trips people
up.

Paul



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov 21 22:17:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Thu Nov 21 22:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
References: <AAF5CC14-FD95-11D6-975C-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <3DDDAF99.9060006@members.evolt.org>

MarsHall wrote:
> On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 13:35 US/Central, Peter VanDijck wrote:
> Maybe you could use this functionality, though? Put your scripts on a
> page in a small palette-style popped-up window (instead of using
> bookmarklets), so that they are available at all times. Give their
> links/buttons accesskey attributes. The user would have to bring focus
> to your special window [by clicking on it] before hitting the keystroke.

Hmm.. maybe use a sidebar instead if your browser supports it?

--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From crsaila at yahoo.ca  Thu Nov 21 23:20:00 2002
From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila)
Date: Thu Nov 21 23:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] need javascript guru
In-Reply-To: <001801c291da$abd890b0$6401a8c0@ZOLABOLA>
References: <20021122021452.74312.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com> <060501c291d6$cea899e0$3e02a8c0@cusack> <001801c291da$abd890b0$6401a8c0@ZOLABOLA>
Message-ID: <3DDDBE6C.8010507@yahoo.ca>

Liz Hincks wrote:
> I don't want the form to submit unless the Grand Total is greater than zero.
> ( or a check box is checked)

Insert this function into the script, then call this function at the
first line of MM_validateForm():

function checkForm(){
  var form = document.form1
  if(((form.donation.checked) || (form.donation_check.checked) ||
(form.cards_check.checked)) && (form.grand_total.value > 0)) return
  else { alert("You must enter a donation amount"); return false; }

}

Definitely not the most elegant solution, but it should work...

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com  :  http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------




From joel at spinhead.com  Thu Nov 21 23:49:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Thu Nov 21 23:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" flopp
	y)
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806DB@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Photoshop has a File->Recent item that stores the last few
> documents you saved.  Maybe try clearing that (I'm not sure
> the best way to do so except by creating and saving multiple
> documents until the document that was saved on the A: drive
> is gone from the list).

*Very* close :)

Syed, I'm assuming you're using Windows 2000 (because I am, not because I
really believe that) but other Windows versions will be close:

Go to c:\Documents and Settings\syed (or whatever your logon name is)\Recent
and delete *everything* in the folder. They're just shortcuts. It won't
hurt. The 'A' drive accessing should stop until you're doing it on purpose.

The 'Recent' folder is elsewhere on Win9X and ME, but I have no clue where;
it's been too long since I've used 'em.

joel


From szh at softhome.net  Fri Nov 22 00:20:01 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Fri Nov 22 00:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
References: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF8013A1050@postal.homestead-corp.com>
Message-ID: <006c01c291ef$6f206340$73fba5ca@haidersystem>

From: "Roger Ly"
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: November 22, 2002, Friday 2:08 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)


> Photoshop has a File->Recent item that stores the last few documents you
> saved.  Maybe try clearing that (I'm not sure the best way to do so
> except by creating and saving multiple documents until the document that
> was saved on the A: drive is gone from the list).

According to my information, many programs get this information from Windows
registry.
Anyhow, your idea is right. I set Photoshop to create Contact Sheet and then Web
Image Gallery. These two commands tend Photoshop to open many files
automatically. After opening and saving about 25 files, the problem has solved.
Thank you, Roger, for the great solution.
Moral for all PS users: Never save your images directly to Drive A with
Photoshop.

I would like to thank all others also who have posted to help me. Your help is
highly appreciated.

<tip type="Photoshop" Author="Syed Zeeshan Haider">
Photoshop is not just for creating huge multi-MB PSD files but it can help you
to decide the size of your images for web according to their quality and image
details. Open an image which you want to use on some web site and click
File>Save for Web to decide.
</tip>

Thanks again,

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Fri Nov 22 00:31:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Fri Nov 22 00:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
In-Reply-To: <000001c2916e$11b52730$0a00a8c0@Aleem>
Message-ID: <E2B2AF04-FDE3-11D6-98A7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

Hi there...

On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 08:55 US/Central, Aleem Bawany wrote:
> so would that mean I can simply highlight some content on a random
> website, click a bookmarklet and have that fed into my content
> management system,

I know that Blogger has a bookmarklet (
http://www.blogger.com/howto/blogthis.pyra ) that works by popping a
window with a text field whose contents can be submitted on-the-spot to
your blog. The text field is pre-populated with the current documents
name and URL and *I think* current selection too.

That might lead you in the right direction!


> I was playing around with it earlier, you can view it here:
> http://one.com.pk/test/accesskey.html

FYI: That script does not work on Mac OS X in Chimera Navigator 0.6
(that's Moz 1.0 layout engine) or IE 5.2.2; it returns no errors.

Have a lovely night [or day],
Mars



From szh at softhome.net  Fri Nov 22 00:33:04 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Fri Nov 22 00:33:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806DB@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c291f1$41730cc0$73fba5ca@haidersystem>

From: "Joel Canfield"
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: November 22, 2002, Friday 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)



> Syed, I'm assuming you're using Windows 2000 (because I am, not because I
> really believe that) but other Windows versions will be close:

Sorry, I am using Windows 98 SE.

> Go to c:\Documents and Settings\syed (or whatever your logon name is)\Recent
> and delete *everything* in the folder. They're just shortcuts. It won't
> hurt. The 'A' drive accessing should stop until you're doing it on purpose.

I found a folder "Recent" in Windows folder. But emptying this folder did not
work. Instead I had to open and save more than 25 files with PS to solve the
problem.
Thank you for concerning,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From neuro at well.com  Fri Nov 22 04:25:00 2002
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Nov 22 04:25:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What is PHP?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211211226100.7719-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <049c01c29211$90662db0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>

Tim Luoma wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 djinn at darkdesigns.org wrote:
>
> > [Disclaimer - those who want to tell me to use Google, please delete
> > this message. I know there are people on this list who are
> > knowledgeable enough about PHP to point me to the *right* information,
> > not just *all* of the information.]
>
> '+what +is php' at google would give you the *right* information

even just searching for php on it's own would have been sufficient,
returning www.php.net as the first result.  Clicking on that gives you the
immediate text: "PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language
that is especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML
[...]"

> <blockquote cite="http://www.php.net">
> PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language that is
> especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML. If
> [snip]

hey, you noticed that too - it must be rather prominent then :)

In future, I recommend Google.

--
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
   U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 05:00:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 05:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <3DDD9110.8030204@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEIBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

ok I tried putting the table inbetwen the <div> but alas nothing.  I then ttried
the class within the <table> and agin nothing.

Any ideas?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 02:06
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] layers not frames


Chris W. Parker wrote:

>>the nav is within a table so do i just give the table a class
>>"overflow: auto"
>
> i don't think that will work because a table is not a box of any kind.

Semantics about boxes aside, sure, overflow will work with a table
(or better, a tbody, leaving your table's headers and footers fixed)
set to an explicit height.

At least in Moz ... :-)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002



From dave at stemfiction.com  Fri Nov 22 05:37:01 2002
From: dave at stemfiction.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Fri Nov 22 05:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
Message-ID: <000d01c2921b$60083c80$43ede783@lsdas>

Hello to you all,

Does anyone happen to know of a way to achieve a "fade-out" effect on an
image? I have an image that will be left aligned, and most of it fades to
white on the right-hand side, except for one area - I would like this to
also fade out.

I'm specifically looking for a way to do it in Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop
7.0, and preferably not a cheesy powerpoint style fade out ;)

Thanks for your help,
Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com



From dcsquare at myrealbox.com  Fri Nov 22 05:37:23 2002
From: dcsquare at myrealbox.com (Dan CRACIUN)
Date: Fri Nov 22 05:37:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: [the list] Photoshop 6 is trying to access..
Message-ID: <003401c2921b$6ce626b0$1501a8c0@imago1>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Upgrade to Photoshop 6.1. It contains a bug fix for exactly this problem (among others): it doesn't slow down the program when it can't find the files in in recent list (File>Open recent>).
--



From web2k2 at premonition.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 05:53:01 2002
From: web2k2 at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan)
Date: Fri Nov 22 05:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c2921b$60083c80$43ede783@lsdas>
References: <000d01c2921b$60083c80$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <p05200f01ba03c8fad85d@[192.168.8.2]>

At 11:36 am +0000 22/11/02, Dave Stevens wrote:
>Hello to you all,
>
>Does anyone happen to know of a way to achieve a "fade-out" effect on an
>image? I have an image that will be left aligned, and most of it fades to
>white on the right-hand side, except for one area - I would like this to
>also fade out.
>
>I'm specifically looking for a way to do it in Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop
>7.0, and preferably not a cheesy powerpoint style fade out ;)

The best way to do this is with flash
*ducks*
The swf with the image embedded will be more or less the same size as
the original image. Just adjust the alpha or brightness of the image
over a few frames.

An animated gif is a bad way of doing this in terms of bandwidth, and
although SVG is a W3C standard which would do it, installed userbase
is not good. There may be IE-win-only ways of fading - Just Say No.

Geoff


From dcsquare at myrealbox.com  Fri Nov 22 05:53:20 2002
From: dcsquare at myrealbox.com (Dan CRACIUN)
Date: Fri Nov 22 05:53:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] Photoshop 6 is trying to access drive A (3.5" floppy)
Message-ID: <004401c2921d$b332e840$1501a8c0@imago1>

These are the bug fixes for the update:
<blockquote>
The Adobe Photoshop 6.0.1 update fixes a number of problems discovered after
Photoshop 6.0 was released.
The most significant fixes in the 6.0.1 release include:
- The painting tool brush picker has new usability improvements including:
- Enter brings up and dismisses the preset picker at the current mouse
location
- Double-clicking a brush in the picker selects the brush and dismisses the
picker
- The current brush is always highlighted in the preset picker
- The current brush indicator always displays the brush size
- The First Brush and Last Brush keyboard shortcuts (> and <) work
regardless of
whether the current brush exactly matches a preset brush
- Image clipping paths in EPS and TIFF files saved from Photoshop 6.0.1 have
been modified so that software, such as QuarkXPress, is able to read them.
- ImageReady is able to save and preview animations under constrained memory
conditions.
- There is no slow-down of performance when files in the Open Recent list
are unavailable.
- Batch file naming works correctly.
- Export Paths to Illustrator retains path scaling.
- Using certain tools, such as the Move, Marquee, or Lasso tool, after using
the Open, Save and Print commands no longer generates a Program Error
dialog.
- Selecting a single color in Color Range now works correctly.
- Online help is accessible for more web browser configurations.
- New Japanese character map (CMap) files are included to resolve conflicts
with ImageStyler 1.0 and PageMaker 6.5.2 Plus.
- Memory usage behavior is better on all Windows OSes; the network should no
longer become unavailable when Photoshop is running.
- Showing and hiding edges for a selection no longer requires pressing
Ctrl-H twice.
</blockquote>



From dave at stemfiction.com  Fri Nov 22 06:00:01 2002
From: dave at stemfiction.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
Message-ID: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>

 oh right sorry, I've not made this clear!
 I didn't mean I wanted the image to start off normal and then fade  to
 nothing - though I can see why you thought that! (erk - my apologies!)

I just want a static image that is solid colour on the left, getting fainter
to the right so that it merges in to the background colour by the end...

Like if you push hard down on a pencil when you draw a line, and then
release pressure as you go along, so that it gets fainter... Hope that
explains it :D

Cheers,
Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Nov 22 06:05:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
References: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPKEEPDBAA.lists@prydain.com>
Message-ID: <00fb01c2921f$4b89d1c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> > Wouldn't server-side includes [SSI] do this without
> > the overhead of the PHP interpreter?
>
> If what you're including is also static, sure.  But not if you want
> to generate a crumb trail, make the tabs and sidebar identify
> where you are in the hierarchy, or anything else that requires logic.

actually, XSSI (extended server side includes) does include logic
capabilities

XSSI is a standard feature of apache, if i'm not mistaken

here's a "smart" nav bar that senses what page it's on --

  http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3803


rudy




From web2k2 at premonition.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 06:12:01 2002
From: web2k2 at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
References: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <p05200f02ba03ce250e60@[192.168.8.2]>

At 11:59 am +0000 22/11/02, Dave Stevens wrote:
>  oh right sorry, I've not made this clear!
>  I didn't mean I wanted the image to start off normal and then fade  to
>  nothing - though I can see why you thought that! (erk - my apologies!)
>
>I just want a static image that is solid colour on the left, getting fainter
>to the right so that it merges in to the background colour by the end...
>
>Like if you push hard down on a pencil when you draw a line, and then
>release pressure as you go along, so that it gets fainter... Hope that
>explains it :D
>
>Cheers,
>Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com

Right ho. You need the gradient tool in photoshop.
Pick the solid colour you need for the foreground colour in PS.
Choose the gradient tool.
In the second pull-down menu from top right, select the gradient
which fades from your colour to the transparent chequerboard.
On a new layer, drag the gradient tool to produce the fade effect.
Click undo. Do it again until you get the effect you want. The longer
you drag, the gentler the gradient.

HTH

Geoff


From asp at tvw.net  Fri Nov 22 06:16:01 2002
From: asp at tvw.net (Julian Voelcker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
References: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <VA.00000592.0cbf6bbf@tvw.net>

Dave,

You are looking at a 'gradient fill' - look in the help file of your favourite
graphics app for info on how to do it.

One word of warning, they are a right royal pain in the a** when it comes to
optimisation due to the vast range of colours that will be required for the
gradient.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:59:15 -0000, Dave Stevens wrote:
> oh right sorry, I've not made this clear!
>  I didn't mean I wanted the image to start off normal and then fade  to
>  nothing - though I can see why you thought that! (erk - my apologies!)
>
> I just want a static image that is solid colour on the left, getting fainter
> to the right so that it merges in to the background colour by the end...
>
> Like if you push hard down on a pencil when you draw a line, and then
> release pressure as you go along, so that it gets fainter... Hope that
> explains it :D
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com
>


Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom




From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Fri Nov 22 06:18:00 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <MGEKLGHDNCCOJEHBAIKEMELGDMAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

Dave Stevens
>I just want a static image that is solid colour on the left, getting
fainter
>to the right so that it merges in to the background colour by the end...

Many ways; one easy one is

Create a new layer on top of what you've got.
Select the gradient tool.
Then select the transparent to white option.
Draw in the path.

Bingo!

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty
http://www.corx.co.uk/ :: Tune In :: Drop Down  :: Game On ::
http://www.BiggerBrighterBetter.com Buy Surf  - Roddy Frame's new album on
vinyl!




From dave at stemfiction.com  Fri Nov 22 06:20:01 2002
From: dave at stemfiction.com (Dave Stevens)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
References: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas> <p05200f02ba03ce250e60@[192.168.8.2]>
Message-ID: <001301c29221$46509f20$43ede783@lsdas>

cheers!
Dave Stevens,  www.stemfiction.com

>---------
Right ho. You need the gradient tool in photoshop.
Pick the solid colour you need for the foreground colour in PS.
Choose the gradient tool.
In the second pull-down menu from top right, select the gradient
which fades from your colour to the transparent chequerboard.
On a new layer, drag the gradient tool to produce the fade effect.
Click undo. Do it again until you get the effect you want. The longer
you drag, the gentler the gradient.

HTH

Geoff



From mbarrett at triad.rr.com  Fri Nov 22 06:21:01 2002
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <C8F41752-FE14-11D6-B193-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>

You are looking for the gradient tool.

In Photoshop 6 or higher, set your foreground color to "left" color and
your background color to the "right" color.

Do this by clicking the foreground color swatch on the toolbar,
selecting a color, and hitting "OK"
Repeat for the background color

Then choose the gradient tool (G) from the tool pallette

There are a few gradient styles to choose from.

Click on the little gradient pull down menu on the options toolbar at
the top of the screen...
Select the gradient style which shows the foreground fading to the
background.

Using the Gradient tool, click on the left side of your image where you
want the color to start, drag to the right as far as you want the color
to go.

Hold "shift" to draw in a straight line.

On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 06:59  AM, Dave Stevens wrote:

>
>  oh right sorry, I've not made this clear!
>  I didn't mean I wanted the image to start off normal and then fade  to
>  nothing - though I can see why you thought that! (erk - my apologies!)
>



From sforbes at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 22 06:28:01 2002
From: sforbes at members.evolt.org (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 06:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Browser Popularity
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIELIFCAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <C44E3C0A-FE15-11D6-A11B-003065C0167C@members.evolt.org>

I don't know about other version, but at least my copy of Opera default
was to identify as ie.
So I would take these stats with a large grain of salt.

On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 06:44 PM, carole guevin wrote:
> Opera is in 3rd place but accounts to 0% in view of total audience
--
The news, Uncensored http://www.tellinglies.org/news



From dunstan at 1976design.com  Fri Nov 22 07:43:01 2002
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Fri Nov 22 07:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] problem formatting ASP/Access WHERE statement
Message-ID: <20021122134251.M50016@1976design.com>

Hi there,

I have an ASP page which, when loaded, includes an ArticleID value in the url:

http://207.17.209.3/perform/article.asp?ArticleID=63

This ArticleID is then used to lookup the correct article in an Access db:
--------------------------------
strQuery = "SELECT
ArticleID,ArticleTitle,ArticleFile,ArticleSummary,ArticleContent,ColumnName,Cur
rentIssue,AuthorID,FullName,IssueID,IssueFile,FutureIssue FROM ArticlesQuery
WHERE ArticleID = 'ArticleID'"
--------------------------------


But when I run this (and the db connection gubbins before it) I get the
following errors:
--------------------------------
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria
expression.

/perform/article.asp, line 16
--------------------------------

I don't understand in ASP how to format the WHERE bit of the query.

I've also tried:
--------------------------------
...FROM ArticlesQuery WHERE ArticleID = ::ArticleID::"
--------------------------------

but that gives the error:
--------------------------------
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e14'

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in
query expression 'ArticleID = ::ArticleID::'.

/perform/article.asp, line 16
--------------------------------


Can anyone help me format this section correctly?

Many thanks - dunstan

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.orchard.it/
http://www.maccaws.org/


From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 07:49:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Fri Nov 22 07:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] problem formatting ASP/Access WHERE statement
In-Reply-To: <20021122134251.M50016@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEAEJLFPAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi Dunston

At a guess your ArticleID field is an integer (or an Autonumber field), so
don't use a string.

strQuery = "SELECT
ArticleID,ArticleTitle,ArticleFile,ArticleSummary,ArticleContent,ColumnName,
CurrentIssue,AuthorID,FullName,IssueID,IssueFile,FutureIssue FROM
ArticlesQuery WHERE ArticleID = " & request.querystring("ArticleID")

HTH

Norman



From tech at antix.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 07:50:01 2002
From: tech at antix.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Anthony_Johnston_._Antix?=)
Date: Fri Nov 22 07:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] problem formatting ASP/Access WHERE statement
In-Reply-To: <20021122134251.M50016@1976design.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBJFIHPGFDKMLHHKPIKEBIFJAA.tech@antix.co.uk>

try

"SELECT
ArticleID,ArticleTitle,ArticleFile,ArticleSummary,ArticleContent,Co
lumnName,Cur
rentIssue,AuthorID,FullName,IssueID,IssueFile,FutureIssue FROM
ArticlesQuery
WHERE ArticleID = " & request.queryString("ArticleID")

Ant.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dunstan Orchard
>Sent: 22 November 2002 13:43
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] problem formatting ASP/Access WHERE statement
>
>
>Hi there,
>
>I have an ASP page which, when loaded, includes an ArticleID value
>in the url:
>
>http://207.17.209.3/perform/article.asp?ArticleID=63
>
>This ArticleID is then used to lookup the correct article in an Access db:
>--------------------------------
>strQuery = "SELECT
>ArticleID,ArticleTitle,ArticleFile,ArticleSummary,ArticleContent,Co
>lumnName,Cur
>rentIssue,AuthorID,FullName,IssueID,IssueFile,FutureIssue FROM
>ArticlesQuery
>WHERE ArticleID = 'ArticleID'"
>--------------------------------
>
>
>But when I run this (and the db connection gubbins before it) I get the
>following errors:
>--------------------------------
>Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e07'
>
>[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria
>expression.
>
>/perform/article.asp, line 16
>--------------------------------
>
>I don't understand in ASP how to format the WHERE bit of the query.
>
>I've also tried:
>--------------------------------
>...FROM ArticlesQuery WHERE ArticleID = ::ArticleID::"
>--------------------------------
>
>but that gives the error:
>--------------------------------
>Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e14'
>
>[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Syntax error (missing
>operator) in
>query expression 'ArticleID = ::ArticleID::'.
>
>/perform/article.asp, line 16
>--------------------------------
>
>
>Can anyone help me format this section correctly?
>
>Many thanks - dunstan
>
>---------------------------
>Dorset, England
>http://www.1976design.com/
>http://www.orchard.it/
>http://www.maccaws.org/
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !


From henk at webtaurus.nl  Fri Nov 22 08:40:01 2002
From: henk at webtaurus.nl (Henk van den Bor)
Date: Fri Nov 22 08:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape ugly space in frames
Message-ID: <002001c2921d$2db46860$0e01a8c0@ArmadaM700>

Sorry for the dumb question, but hey its Friday!

on this site http://www.salsaperfecta.nl I use a frameset, works fine in IE.
Just found out NS (7.0) shows an ugly 1px (?) space in between some frames.
Have come across this before and solved it, but just can't remember how. I
know there are lots off usabilty issues on the site but thats not the point
just yet. Can someone make me go into the weekend with a peacefull mind by
pointing me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance

Henk van den Bor
Webtaurus Internet Vormgeving en Advies
www.webtaurus.nl





From nelsons at swosu.edu  Fri Nov 22 08:40:23 2002
From: nelsons at swosu.edu (Stephen Nelson)
Date: Fri Nov 22 08:40:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Email] Setting Up Email Server Separate from Shared Web Server -- Help Please
Message-ID: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBEEJJCCAA.nelsons@swosu.edu>

I would greatly appreciate any help, guidence, or direction that anyone can
provide.  Thanks in advance.

I have a problem, which I have not run into before.  I have a new client who
runs there own M$ exchange server in house.  I usually use a shared
webhosting solution from an outside vendor for my clients.  My question is
how do I forward any email to the exchange server from the shared server?
Is it something that has to be set on the Web Server? Or is this something
that I can configure at verisign? The domain is registered through verisign.

The webserver runs FreeBSD and Apache.  I have limited access to it.

Thanks,

Stephen Nelson



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Nov 22 08:45:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Nov 22 08:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Email] Setting Up Email Server Separate from Share
	d Web Server -- Help Please
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806DF@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> vendor for my clients.  My question is how do I forward any
> email to the exchange server from the shared server? Is it

What mail will be going to the web server? How will it be getting there?

Unless someone creates an MX (Mail eXchange) record pointing to it, mail
won't even try to go there; it'll go their Exchange box, as always.

If you're *sending* mail, use the local box's smtp services and ignore the
Exchange box.

joel


From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Fri Nov 22 09:32:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
References: <001d01c2921e$9551b7b0$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <oprf9r12xazwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:59:15 -0000, Dave Stevens <dave at stemfiction.com> wrote:

> Like if you push hard down on a pencil when you draw a line, and then
> release pressure as you go along, so that it gets fainter... Hope that
> explains it :D

Just to add a little flavor, you could use an alpha transparent PNG that
would then fade nicely over whatver color background you wanted to put it
over.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From mbarrett at triad.rr.com  Fri Nov 22 09:36:01 2002
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <oprf9r12xazwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <095900CD-FE30-11D6-A2B5-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>

On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 10:31  AM, Alex Ezell wrote:

> Just to add a little flavor, you could use an alpha transparent PNG
> that
> would then fade nicely over whatver color background you wanted to put
> it
> over.

Windows IE doesn't support alpha transparency in PNGs, only binary (GIF
style) transparency.

You get a gradient fading to white, or what ever matt color you have
established.

Now...if you are developing for a Mac IE/Mozilla only audience...Use
alpha transparency to your heart's content



From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Nov 22 09:36:17 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:36:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D72@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>

I'm a raw newbie at .asp.  I've tried learning through books and tutorials,
but I find the best way for me to learn anything is to simply jump into the
deep end with both feet.

I learned HTML and CSS in this fashion, so now I'm trying to do the same
with .asp - which brings me to my current dilemma.

I pulled the script on this page -->
http://www.winebow.com/test5d.asp?producer=1 from one of the other pages on
our web site, because it does what I want - display a list of wines for a
given producer.

However when I attempt to add it to this page -->
http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206  I'm getting an error.

I've been trial and erroring it for two days now with no success.  The
Nshortdet.asp page works fine without the additional code to pull in the
info from the database.  And all the other scripts seem to work correctly
after I add the extra code, but the extra bit won't work in this page, even
though it works by itself.  This leads me to the conclusion that something
in the added bit is in conflict with something in the original bits, but I
don't know enough to figure it out and I can't seem to find anything that
relates on any of the .asp help web sites.

BTW - I didn't write any of this code.  It was written by our former
database development consultant who is no longer in the development business
(long story)

The original pages are at http://www.winebow.com/shortdet.asp?ID=206 and at
http://www.winebow.com/show_producer.asp?producer=1 if it would help to see
the code before I got my hands on it <g>

TIA
-- Kath ...
work --> www.winebow.com
home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com --






From David at softv.net  Fri Nov 22 09:42:01 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A54C3@SOFTVMAIL>

What's the error message you're getting?

<%
David Mitchell
Application Developer
david at sofTV.net
sofTV.net
www.sofTV.net
613.729.6400 x268
%>





From pcohen at alumni.rice.edu  Fri Nov 22 09:43:01 2002
From: pcohen at alumni.rice.edu (Paul Cohen)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascipt Status Question
Message-ID: <NGBBIALLKPPFFFILHPKOOEDICBAA.pcohen@alumni.rice.edu>

Hello.

This is my first post to this list so I appologize in advance if this isn't
in the correct format.

My question is:

I am using a URL forwarding and masking tool for a website.  However, even
though the URL is masked, the status bar will show the 'real' location of a
link.  To correct this, I am using the OnMouseOver event handler with the
link to change the status message.

My problem is with some image links that I have that are using the familiar
MM_SwapImage functions to handle the image rollovers.  I can't change the
status message because these functions are being used with the event
handler.

I tried putting the window.status into the functions but they don't work.

I also thought maybe I could run two functions on one event handler but that
doesn't seem to work either.

Any suggestions?



AS USED IN THE HTML PAGE

<div align="right"><a href="index.php" onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()"
onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('Image1','','images/but_home_r.gif',1)"v><IMG
SRC="images/but_home.gif" WIDTH=94 HEIGHT=14 ALT="" border="0"
name="Image1"></a></div>

ACTUAL FUNCTIONS

<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
function MM_swapImgRestore() { //v3.0
  var i,x,a=document.MM_sr; for(i=0;a&&i<a.length&&(x=a[i])&&x.oSrc;i++)
x.src=x.oSrc;
}

function MM_preloadImages() { //v3.0
  var d=document; if(d.images){ if(!d.MM_p) d.MM_p=new Array();
    var i,j=d.MM_p.length,a=MM_preloadImages.arguments; for(i=0; i<a.length;
i++)
    if (a[i].indexOf("#")!=0){ d.MM_p[j]=new Image; d.MM_p[j++].src=a[i];}}
}

function MM_findObj(n, d) { //v4.01
  var p,i,x;  if(!d) d=document;
if((p=n.indexOf("?"))>0&&parent.frames.length) {
    d=parent.frames[n.substring(p+1)].document; n=n.substring(0,p);}
  if(!(x=d[n])&&d.all) x=d.all[n]; for (i=0;!x&&i<d.forms.length;i++)
x=d.forms[i][n];
  for(i=0;!x&&d.layers&&i<d.layers.length;i++)
x=MM_findObj(n,d.layers[i].document);
  if(!x && d.getElementById) x=d.getElementById(n); return x;
}

function MM_swapImage() { //v3.0
  var i,j=0,x,a=MM_swapImage.arguments; document.MM_sr=new Array;
for(i=0;i<(a.length-2);i+=3)
   if ((x=MM_findObj(a[i]))!=null){document.MM_sr[j++]=x; if(!x.oSrc)
x.oSrc=x.src; x.src=a[i+2];}
}
//-->
</script>




From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Nov 22 09:47:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
In-Reply-To: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D72@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <BA040104.1F0C%futureweb@macmail.com>

<snip>
> However when I attempt to add it to this page -->
> http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206  I'm getting an error.
</snip>

Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Line 1: Incorrect syntax near
'='.

/Nshortdet.asp, line 173

Can't see your ASP code from visiting your URL, but there is your problem on
line 173




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Nov 22 09:47:19 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:47:19 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascipt Status Question
In-Reply-To: <NGBBIALLKPPFFFILHPKOOEDICBAA.pcohen@alumni.rice.edu>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJIELBCNAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Paul, you can definitely run more than one function in an event handler.
Try:

<A HREF="blah.html" onMouseOver="mm_swap_image();
your_window_status_function_here();">...</A>

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Hello.
>
> This is my first post to this list so I appologize in advance if
> this isn't
> in the correct format.
>
> My question is:
>
> I am using a URL forwarding and masking tool for a website.  However, even
> though the URL is masked, the status bar will show the 'real'
> location of a
> link.  To correct this, I am using the OnMouseOver event handler with the
> link to change the status message.
>
> My problem is with some image links that I have that are using
> the familiar
> MM_SwapImage functions to handle the image rollovers.  I can't change the
> status message because these functions are being used with the event
> handler.
>
> I tried putting the window.status into the functions but they don't work.
>
> I also thought maybe I could run two functions on one event
> handler but that
> doesn't seem to work either.
>
> Any suggestions?



From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Fri Nov 22 09:48:01 2002
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (matt s.)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] GoLive vs. UltraDev
Message-ID: <3DDE517B.1A53B32A@lightbulbpress.com>

My company is planning to make the switch from UltraDev to GoLive, and
I'm wondering if anyone has had experiences, good or bad with GoLive. Is
it comparable to UltraDev? Is it a hand-coding friendly app or a wysiwyg
nightmare? How are the templating/library features? I'd be particularly
interested if anyone has actually made this switch, and how they handled
moving the templates/libraries from DW to GoLive, which I'm anticipating
is going to be an ulcer-inducer.

tia,

.matt



From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Fri Nov 22 09:51:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
References: <095900CD-FE30-11D6-A2B5-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <oprf9sx6kizwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:35:32 -0500, Michael Barrett <mbarrett at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> Windows IE doesn't support alpha transparency in PNGs, only binary (GIF
> style) transparency.

Yes, but there is a workaround that doesn't break the normal support in
other browsers.

You can do something like this:
<div id="head"
style="filter:progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoader(src='images/header.png')
;"> <img src="/images/header.png" alt="Company Header" width="73"
height="49" border="0" style="filter:Alpha(opacity=0)"/> </div>

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From David at softv.net  Fri Nov 22 09:51:14 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:51:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A54C4@SOFTVMAIL>

Try this:

Put your SQL string into a variable:

Dim SqlString
SqlString = "SELECT * FROM....."

Immediately after your SQL statement on line 173, do a
Response.Write(SqlString) then type Response.End on the next line.
This will print out your SQL statement then halt execution so that we can
see what the problem is with it.



From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Fri Nov 22 09:54:00 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russ)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] GoLive vs. UltraDev
In-Reply-To: <3DDE517B.1A53B32A@lightbulbpress.com>
Message-ID: <001601c2923f$666bf020$1503a8c0@autolycus>

IMHO, if you're planning on using Flash and/or ColdFusion, I'd upgrade
to the Studio MX versus Adobe.

Hopefully, they've polled the people who will actually be using the
tools--in certain circumstances, we'll use GoLive when it syncs-up with
the client, but we've been extremely happy with the extensibility and
the community that Macromedia offers.  I don't know if that exists for
GoLive, so I can't speak to that for them.

HTH,

Russ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of matt s.
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:47 AM
> To: evolt
> Subject: [thelist] GoLive vs. UltraDev
>
>
> My company is planning to make the switch from UltraDev to
> GoLive, and I'm wondering if anyone has had experiences, good
> or bad with GoLive. Is it comparable to UltraDev? Is it a
> hand-coding friendly app or a wysiwyg nightmare? How are the
> templating/library features? I'd be particularly interested
> if anyone has actually made this switch, and how they handled
> moving the templates/libraries from DW to GoLive, which I'm
> anticipating is going to be an ulcer-inducer.
>
> tia,
>
> .matt
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
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From rich at f1central.net  Fri Nov 22 09:54:18 2002
From: rich at f1central.net (Rich Gray)
Date: Fri Nov 22 09:54:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
In-Reply-To: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D72@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAAEGADKAA.rich@f1central.net>

Hi Kathleen

As ASP scripts are executed by the web server itself we cannot see the
source code by viewing the links you provided. All that does is show the
output of the script i.e. the HTML. So you will need to cut and paste
extracts of the source code script into your messages...

http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206

the error message hints at a malformed SQL Server query on line 173 of the
source code, but without seeing that portion of the code it will be
difficult to guess the problem...

Can you post the code?

Cheers
Rich




From BDaniel at Chemnavigator.com  Fri Nov 22 10:00:01 2002
From: BDaniel at Chemnavigator.com (Bret Daniel)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <2B0CF44FC7E8D3118B4900508BA599EFAD9878@smtp.chemnavigator.com>

can you send the source for the page?

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Heytink [mailto:K_HEYTINK at winebow.com]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 7:35 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed


I'm a raw newbie at .asp.  I've tried learning through books and tutorials,
but I find the best way for me to learn anything is to simply jump into the
deep end with both feet.

I learned HTML and CSS in this fashion, so now I'm trying to do the same
with .asp - which brings me to my current dilemma.

I pulled the script on this page -->
http://www.winebow.com/test5d.asp?producer=1 from one of the other pages on
our web site, because it does what I want - display a list of wines for a
given producer.

However when I attempt to add it to this page -->
http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206  I'm getting an error.

I've been trial and erroring it for two days now with no success.  The
Nshortdet.asp page works fine without the additional code to pull in the
info from the database.  And all the other scripts seem to work correctly
after I add the extra code, but the extra bit won't work in this page, even
though it works by itself.  This leads me to the conclusion that something
in the added bit is in conflict with something in the original bits, but I
don't know enough to figure it out and I can't seem to find anything that
relates on any of the .asp help web sites.

BTW - I didn't write any of this code.  It was written by our former
database development consultant who is no longer in the development business
(long story)

The original pages are at http://www.winebow.com/shortdet.asp?ID=206 and at
http://www.winebow.com/show_producer.asp?producer=1 if it would help to see
the code before I got my hands on it <g>

TIA
-- Kath ...
work --> www.winebow.com
home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com --




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From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Fri Nov 22 10:03:01 2002
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (matt s.)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] GoLive vs. UltraDev
References: <001601c2923f$666bf020$1503a8c0@autolycus>
Message-ID: <3DDE5511.7BDA13D3@lightbulbpress.com>

I do use Flash, and personally, I'm not crazy about the idea of switching.
I think Dreamweaver is a solid product that has steadily improved over the
years. Unfortunately, this is a political decision made well above my
head, based more on politics than technology.

.matt

Russ wrote:

> IMHO, if you're planning on using Flash and/or ColdFusion, I'd upgrade
> to the Studio MX versus Adobe.
>
> Hopefully, they've polled the people who will actually be using the
> tools--in certain circumstances, we'll use GoLive when it syncs-up with
> the client, but we've been extremely happy with the extensibility and
> the community that Macromedia offers.  I don't know if that exists for
> GoLive, so I can't speak to that for them.
>
> HTH,
>
> Russ
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of matt s.
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:47 AM
> > To: evolt
> > Subject: [thelist] GoLive vs. UltraDev
> >
> >
> > My company is planning to make the switch from UltraDev to
> > GoLive, and I'm wondering if anyone has had experiences, good
> > or bad with GoLive. Is it comparable to UltraDev? Is it a
> > hand-coding friendly app or a wysiwyg nightmare? How are the
> > templating/library features? I'd be particularly interested
> > if anyone has actually made this switch, and how they handled
> > moving the templates/libraries from DW to GoLive, which I'm
> > anticipating is going to be an ulcer-inducer.
> >
> > tia,
> >
> > .matt
> >
> > --
> > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !



From futureweb at macmail.com  Fri Nov 22 10:07:01 2002
From: futureweb at macmail.com (Benjer)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
Message-ID: <BA040616.1F1C%futureweb@macmail.com>

On a site with lots of dynamic content being pulled from the datatbase, can
these pages be crawled by spiders?

I remember reading about the url itself may cause the problem?

Benjer




From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Nov 22 10:07:12 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:07:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D73@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjer [mailto:futureweb at macmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:43 AM

> Can't see your ASP code from visiting your URL, but there is
> your problem on
> line 173

I figured out that much <g> - I just can't figure out what's wrong.

I forgot that you can't view .asp from the view source - sorry about that.

I uploaded it as a .text file -->
http://www.winebow.com/test6.txt

Thanks again,

-- Kath ...
work --> www.winebow.com
home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com --


From mbarrett at triad.rr.com  Fri Nov 22 10:08:00 2002
From: mbarrett at triad.rr.com (Michael Barrett)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <oprf9sx6kizwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <892130A6-FE34-11D6-A2B5-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>

On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 10:50  AM, Alex Ezell wrote:

> You can do something like this:
> <div id="head"
> style="filter:progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoader(src='i
> mages/header.png')
> ;"> <img src="/images/header.png" alt="Company Header" width="73"
> height="49" border="0" style="filter:Alpha(opacity=0)"/> </div>

Wacky. Does this work in Win IE 6 only?



From francois.jordaan at wheel.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 10:08:26 2002
From: francois.jordaan at wheel.co.uk (Francois Jordaan)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:08:26 2002
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs
Message-ID: <55ED5FD3B4D2D41193E60002A5090BCD030325ED@scorpio.pres.co>

I want to add some code to a website so that I can survey for the next 3
months the users' browser specs. This will give me stats to work with for a
planned redesign.

Regular web log gives me browser brand & version, but I want screen size
(and ideally window size). I've seen this done but can't remember where.

Would this work?
a. write some Javascript that docwrites a query string onto an image on the
home page, something like ?x=640&y=480
b. Server web log records the query string
c. report off the web log in due course

francois

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.


From rwhitener at DesignOptions.com  Fri Nov 22 10:10:01 2002
From: rwhitener at DesignOptions.com (Rob Whitener)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
Message-ID: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA644549D@exmail.designoptions.com>

Yes, they can.  I read about it on the internet.  I can't remember any
specifics about it, but in the meta-tags if you include index or content
follows attribute, the spiders will access your pages.  Look around on
google for meta tags, web crawlers, and dynamic content.

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjer [mailto:futureweb at macmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:05 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?


On a site with lots of dynamic content being pulled from the datatbase, can
these pages be crawled by spiders?

I remember reading about the url itself may cause the problem?

Benjer


--
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http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
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From David at softv.net  Fri Nov 22 10:11:01 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A54C7@SOFTVMAIL>

At the end of your sql statement (.." &  r_id & ""), remove the & "" so that
it looks like this:

& " WHERE W.ID = " &  r_id




From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Fri Nov 22 10:16:01 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russ)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
In-Reply-To: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA644549D@exmail.designoptions.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c29242$723e0840$1503a8c0@autolycus>

Yes, they can.  I say this with no authority or certainty; as I started
typing it, I started to see a loophole since I provide a link to the
specific content, and that could be spidered, as well.

I have content that is dynamically generated that gets spidered all the
time and shows up via a specifically defined URL in Google, etc.
searches all the time.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Whitener
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:11 AM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: RE: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
>
>
> Yes, they can.  I read about it on the internet.  I can't
> remember any specifics about it, but in the meta-tags if you
> include index or content follows attribute, the spiders will
> access your pages.  Look around on google for meta tags, web
> crawlers, and dynamic content.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjer [mailto:futureweb at macmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:05 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
>
>
> On a site with lots of dynamic content being pulled from the
> datatbase, can these pages be crawled by spiders?
>
> I remember reading about the url itself may cause the problem?
>
> Benjer
>
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and
archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web,
evolt !
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
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and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
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From rwhitener at DesignOptions.com  Fri Nov 22 10:16:10 2002
From: rwhitener at DesignOptions.com (Rob Whitener)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:16:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs
Message-ID: <31969A583144D2119A060008C79C3AA644549E@exmail.designoptions.com>

You could use a serverside script to set a cookie on one page, use
javascript to get client height, width, and browser with version, then on
the next page pull the cookie from the client and read the data to your
database.  This basic scheme also works for passing hashed passwords from
client to server.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Jordaan [mailto:francois.jordaan at wheel.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:08 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs


I want to add some code to a website so that I can survey for the next 3
months the users' browser specs. This will give me stats to work with for a
planned redesign.

Regular web log gives me browser brand & version, but I want screen size
(and ideally window size). I've seen this done but can't remember where.

Would this work?
a. write some Javascript that docwrites a query string onto an image on the
home page, something like ?x=640&y=480
b. Server web log records the query string
c. report off the web log in due course

francois

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From BDaniel at Chemnavigator.com  Fri Nov 22 10:23:00 2002
From: BDaniel at Chemnavigator.com (Bret Daniel)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs
Message-ID: <2B0CF44FC7E8D3118B4900508BA599EFAD987A@smtp.chemnavigator.com>

here are some JS items

<br><br>Javascript stuff<br><br>
<script language="JavaScript">
document.write("You are browsing this site with: "+ navigator.appName)

document.write("BROWSER: ")
document.write(navigator.appName + "<br>")
document.write("BROWSERVERSION: ")
document.write(navigator.appVersion + "<br>")
document.write("CODE: ")
document.write(navigator.appCodeName + "<br>")
document.write("PLATFORM: ")
document.write(navigator.platform + "<br>")
document.write("REFERRER: ")
document.write(document.referrer + "<br>")

document.write("SCREEN RESOLUTION: ")
document.write(screen.width + "*")
document.write(screen.height + "<br>")
document.write("AVAILABLE VIEW AREA: ")
document.write(window.screen.availWidth + "*")
document.write(window.screen.availHeight + "<br>")
document.write("COLOR DEPTH: ")
document.write(window.screen.colorDepth + "<br>")
</script>



yo can form a 1px gif to load with a query string to record in the log like:

<IMG SRC="your1px.gif?<<javascriptresults>>">

and then search the log for your1px.gif

hope this helps

-B

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Jordaan [mailto:francois.jordaan at wheel.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:08 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs


I want to add some code to a website so that I can survey for the next 3
months the users' browser specs. This will give me stats to work with for a
planned redesign.

Regular web log gives me browser brand & version, but I want screen size
(and ideally window size). I've seen this done but can't remember where.

Would this work?
a. write some Javascript that docwrites a query string onto an image on the
home page, something like ?x=640&y=480
b. Server web log records the query string
c. report off the web log in due course

francois

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From morgan at morgankelsey.com  Fri Nov 22 10:27:01 2002
From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (Morgan Kelsey)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
References: <001e01c29242$723e0840$1503a8c0@autolycus>
Message-ID: <004901c29243$b02f01d0$9865fea9@jakibyard>


> Yes, they can.  I say this with no authority or certainty; as I started
> typing it, I started to see a loophole since I provide a link to the
> specific content, and that could be spidered, as well.
>
> I have content that is dynamically generated that gets spidered all the
> time and shows up via a specifically defined URL in Google, etc.
> searches all the time.
>

depends how big the site is.
from the horses mouth:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html#A1
1. Reasons your site may not be included.

  a.. Your pages are dynamically generated. We are able to index dynamically
generated pages. However, because our web crawler can easily overwhelm and
crash sites serving dynamic content, we limit the amount of dynamic pages we
index.
disguising your query strings as directories is still the best way to go for
high search engine rankings.


nagrom



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 10:33:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
Message-ID: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

Since I am fairly new to PHP I have some questions about 'best
practices' for some things. I am kinda used to doing things the way I
learned them in ASP. I've been looking at others code and seeing some
differences.

1 - When writing out code to your page, is it best to:

a) echo("foo");
b) print "foo";

along with that, when you have a lot of code (say more than one line)
to output, it seems to me better to do this (usually looping through
a result set)

<?
sql etc
being some loop
?>

<normal html code with <?=$vars?> inside>

<?
end some loop
?>

I seem to find that much easier when there is a lot of stuff instead
of worrying about packing it all into one string with quote issues.

2 - What is the difference between <?php and simply <? - i'd prefer
not to type php all the time if I don't have to.

3 - question about isset() - will a form field that has no value
(i.e. <input type='text' value=''>) be considered set or not? I
seemed to have some trouble with that.

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

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From rlmcfarland at attbi.com  Fri Nov 22 10:36:01 2002
From: rlmcfarland at attbi.com (Richard McFarland)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c2921b$60083c80$43ede783@lsdas>
Message-ID: <BA039B02.31EB%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>

Dave,

Thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth here...

In Photoshop, I would fill the background layer with the same color as the
background color of your eventual web page.

I would place the graphic on a layer above that, then apply a Layer Mask
(Layer>Add Layer Mask>Reveal All). This creates a mask for your graphics
layer. You will notice that the color picker defaults to B/W and a new small
layer icon appears next to your graphic layer in the Layers Palette.

Now, using a straight black to white gradient, click and drag in the main
image window (with a black to white gradient, start at the far right side
and drag left to make it fade out at the right side). The farther you drag,
the more the fade.

The advantage of this method, IMHO, is that it doesn't actually change the
graphic layer. You can always discard the mask and your graphic is intact
(as long as you don't flatten the image or save it in a format that does not
support layers).

Then Save For Web as usual.

Have fun.

Richard
--
Richard McFarland (rlmcfarland at attbi.com)


--"The more you learn, the more there is to learn."--
> From: "Dave Stevens" <dave at stemfiction.com>
> Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
>
>
> Does anyone happen to know of a way to achieve a "fade-out" effect on an
> image? I have an image that will be left aligned, and most of it fades to
> white on the right-hand side, except for one area - I would like this to
> also fade out.



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Fri Nov 22 10:40:01 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascipt Status Question
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJIELBCNAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <007a01c29245$c31cd2c0$9865fea9@Laptop>

> Paul, you can definitely run more than one function in an event handler.
> Try:
>
> <A HREF="blah.html" onMouseOver="mm_swap_image();
> your_window_status_function_here();">...</A>

Right. And you can do that from within DW, attaching two behaviors to the
same <a> -- the swap image behavior and the change status bar text (?)
behavior.

---------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From ml at kfxdesign.net  Fri Nov 22 10:46:01 2002
From: ml at kfxdesign.net (kristina)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <26356543943.20021122165000@kfxdesign.net>

Tom,

Friday, November 22, 2002, 4:32:55 PM, Tom wrote:

<:>
> 2 - What is the difference between <?php and
> simply <? - i'd prefer not to type php all the
> time if I don't have to.
<:>
  <?php ?> - is to do with having your document
  xml ready (I think)

--
hth

bfn
.kristina

ml at kfxdesign.net
kfxdesign.net



From dougal at gunters.org  Fri Nov 22 10:55:01 2002
From: dougal at gunters.org (Dougal Campbell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021122103945.O24936-100000@ns2.iguanasoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> Since I am fairly new to PHP I have some questions about 'best
> practices' for some things. I am kinda used to doing things the way I
> learned them in ASP. I've been looking at others code and seeing some
> differences.
>
> 1 - When writing out code to your page, is it best to:
>
> a) echo("foo");
> b) print "foo";

For the most part, there's no differences. But there are a few *subtle*
differences where print will work, and echo will not. See the PHP manual
for details and examples:
  http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.echo.php
  http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.print.php

> along with that, when you have a lot of code (say more than one line)
> to output, it seems to me better to do this (usually looping through
> a result set)
>
> <?
> sql etc
> being some loop
> ?>
>
> <normal html code with <?=$vars?> inside>
>
> <?
> end some loop
> ?>
>
> I seem to find that much easier when there is a lot of stuff instead
> of worrying about packing it all into one string with quote issues.

Yes, this is good practice. Avoids the need to escape quote characters
and (IMHO) makes the code much easier to read. Even better than that
approach is to use a template class, but if you're just getting started,
that might be a layer of complexity that you don't need yet:
  http://smarty.php.net/

> 2 - What is the difference between <?php and simply <? - i'd prefer
> not to type php all the time if I don't have to.

In general, no difference. It's only a factor if the server admin has
disabled the short form of the tag, or maybe if you're embedding PHP
code in an XML document.
  http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.php

> 3 - question about isset() - will a form field that has no value
> (i.e. <input type='text' value=''>) be considered set or not? I
> seemed to have some trouble with that.

In that case, isset() will return true, and the variable in question
would just be an empty string.

  <?php
    // A pedantic example
    if (! isset($foo)) {
      print "There was no foo variable!";
    } else {
      if (empty($foo)) {  // or, 'if (!$foo)'
        print "foo is set, but empty.";
      } else {
        print "foo is '$foo'";
      }
    }
  ?>

--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III, MCP+I, MCSE <dougal at gunters.org>
http://dougal.gunters.org/             http://spam.gunters.org/
  Web Design & Development:  http://www.mentalcollective.com/
       This message is guaranteed to be 100% eror frea!



From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Nov 22 10:57:01 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c29248$22955db0$7d9bf8c1@sicor.francetelecom.fr>

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Tom Dell'Aringa
> 1 - When writing out code to your page, is it best to:
>
> a) echo("foo");
> b) print "foo";

I seem to prefer echo(), someone explianed the reason to me a long time ago and I found it convincing enough to stop using print. I guess it's got something to do with future deprecation and coherence of code (all other functions being ()'d).

[interspersing HTML]
> I seem to find that much easier when there is a lot of stuff instead
> of worrying about packing it all into one string with quote issues.

It depends on the volume of code I'd have to anti-slash. Usually for one line I put it all inside echos. Especially when dealing with PHP objects.

> 2 - What is the difference between <?php and simply <? - i'd prefer
> not to type php all the time if I don't have to.

Convention. cf. your php.ini, somewhere it is specified that you an omit it. If it works on your server then omit <?php for <?

> 3 - question about isset() - will a form field that has no value
> (i.e. <input type='text' value=''>) be considered set or not? I
> seemed to have some trouble with that.

I prefer to double-check the variable like so:
if(!isset($foo) || $foo=="") { do something; }

For me when you submit, $HTTP_POST_VARS['foo'] has an empty value, so it may be set...

For example test this in a page (say example.php):
if(!isset($HTTP_GET_VARS['foo'])) {
 echo "foo is not set";
} else {
 echo "foo is set";
}

It will tell you foo is not set.
But example.php?foo= will tell you $foo is set.
I should be tested for POST variables, but usually I double-test for every variable.



From Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk  Fri Nov 22 10:59:01 2002
From: Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk (Bird, Graham)
Date: Fri Nov 22 10:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices
Message-ID: <8A058F0155A3D611BA020002A53FB676014FE555@MERCURY>

Hi,

I'm sure this has been asked before, but searching the archive gave nothing
obvious.

The charity I work for has "Members' Groups" all over the UK, some of which
produce their own (often dire) websites. We are to give a presentation to
these eager beavers in order to bring them into line a bit, and I'm looking
for some URLs we can give them for homework.

Are there any reference sites that cover the basics (what to do... what not
to do...) in language your mum would understand? I'm thinking more of good
practice rather than HTML techniques.

Any ideas would be very much appreciated...

Cheers,

Graham


From gwostrel at mac.com  Fri Nov 22 11:02:01 2002
From: gwostrel at mac.com (Gregory Wostrel)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <BA039B02.31EB%rlmcfarland@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <FE2D4686-FE3B-11D6-8198-0003936F6BE6@mac.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I am with Richard on this one.

Masks and layers are the way to go. But it adds complexity, you say?
Sure, but it adds flexibility. Always good to leave pixels alone, you
never know when you will change your mind. Plus it is a much more
accurate way to get the effect. I would also add that you should work
in sRGB colorspace or turn color management off entirely so that you
will be sure to have the background color match.

Greg Wostrel

gwcreative
http://www.gwcreative.com/
gw at gwcreative.com
Communications and the Art of Simplicity


On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 11:27  AM, Richard McFarland wrote:

> Dave,
>
> Thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth here...
>
> In Photoshop, I would fill the background layer with the same color as
> the
> background color of your eventual web page.
>
>
>> From: "Dave Stevens" <dave at stemfiction.com>
>> Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
>>
>>
>> Does anyone happen to know of a way to achieve a "fade-out" effect on
>> an
>> image? I have an image that will be left aligned, and most of it
>> fades to
>> white on the right-hand side, except for one area - I would like this
>> to
>> also fade out.
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

--



From dm at lgcy.com  Fri Nov 22 11:04:01 2002
From: dm at lgcy.com (Daniel Medley)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
Message-ID: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>

I just talked to the server that a client of mine hosts his site on and he
told me that far more sites are hosted on NT servers rather than Unix. He
was talking about the www in general. I'm new to this whole thing so I
didn't argue but I'm thinking that he's wrong.

Any thoughts?

Daniel Medley
Feeling more like I do now than I did before
at http://www.lobowalk.com




From evolt at marsorange.com  Fri Nov 22 11:06:01 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <20021122103945.O24936-100000@ns2.iguanasoft.com>
Message-ID: <79DDDE36-FE3C-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Friday, Nov 22, 2002, at 10:54 US/Central, Dougal Campbell wrote:
> For the most part, there's no differences. But there are a few *subtle*
> differences where print will work, and echo will not. See the PHP
> manual
> for details and examples:
>   http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.echo.php
>   http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.print.php

In fact, there currently is NO DIFFERENCE between print() and echo().
The subtle difference you speak of is in regards to Variable Functions,
which is actually an error in the PHP documentation! See:
http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=16739

They are synonyms for the same construct. Your choice. Consistency in
your own code should be top priority. So, pick one and stick to it.

Also, both echo and print function without parenthesis around their
argument.

Mars :)



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 11:09:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0CD@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Cowan [mailto:evolt at funkwit.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:04 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] authenticating with mozilla/opera/w3 validator
>
>
>
> Chris W. Parker wrote:
> > as far as the SSL thing goes, are suggesting that the site be hosted
> > from https:// and the authentication turned down to basic?
>
> Well, yep. If it's important that it runs in other browsers, that is.
>
> Basically, your options are:
>     - just use IE, and stick with NTLM auth
>     - switch to https:// (you can make IIS _require_ secure
>       access for the site) and change to basic auth
>     - change to basic auth, and leave passwords sent in plain
>       text. This would be a bad thing.
>     - use client certificates instead (insert vomiting noise
>       here)
>     - turn off the need to auth at all
>     - that's about it really

i'll have one #1, extra #2, and a side of #4. ok fine, bad joke.

the server is actually our mail server so it is publicly reachable.
because of this i'll just stick with #1.

however if it were a server that could not be reached from the outside
(i.e. it did not have a NAT entry in the router) i would go with #3 or
#5.


thanks for the help paul.

chris.


From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Nov 22 11:13:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D74@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David at softv.net [mailto:David at softv.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:10 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] ASP help needed
>
>
> At the end of your sql statement (.." &  r_id & ""), remove
> the & "" so that
> it looks like this:
>
> & " WHERE W.ID = " &  r_id
>

Okay, I did this, but I'm still getting the error message

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e14'

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Line 1: Incorrect syntax near
'='.

David at softv.net [mailto:David at softv.net] suggested
> Try this:
>
> Put your SQL string into a variable:
>
> Dim SqlString
> SqlString = "SELECT * FROM....."
>
> Immediately after your SQL statement on line 173, do a
> Response.Write(SqlString) then type Response.End on the next line.
> This will print out your SQL statement then halt execution so
> that we can
> see what the problem is with it.

I saw this suggestion on several of the web sites, I checked before
bothering you kind folks, but I can't get that to work either.  Yesterday I
was getting an error message about "expected end of statement," but today
the page is still returning that Incorrect syntax near '=' message.

I could post the whole code here, but wasn't sure if posting all of it would
create problems with some mail clients (as I said, I'm a total newbie at
.asp)

As I mentioned the two sections of code work fine if I have them separated
into 2 pages, but when I put them together one doesn't seem to like
something in the other and I get the error.

Basically, I've just been removing one line at time to see what happens, but
I'm at a dead end at this point.  It's probably something like a missing bit
of punctuation, a space or carriage return (or two many carriage returns and
spaces), but I'm stumped because I really don't know what I'm doing <g>

Wish I had the luxury of running through some tutorials, but this page is
holding up the launch of the new design so I'm kind of pressed for time.  I
could just leave the list of wines out (they are on another page), but I
wanted to make it easier for users to jump from one wine to another.

And besides - I'm stubborn.  It's a puzzle and I'm determined to solve it!
<g>

Thanks again,

-- Kath ...
work --> www.winebow.com
home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com --


From David at softv.net  Fri Nov 22 11:17:01 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A54CF@SOFTVMAIL>

Have you printed out the SQL statement on the page as I suggested in a
previous message? That will definitely help.

This is a very common and necessary ASP debugging technique.



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 11:17:21 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:17:21 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
In-Reply-To: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
Message-ID: <20021122172250.5c4fce2a.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

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On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:04:24 -0800 Daniel Medley wrote:

> I just talked to the server that a client of mine hosts his site on
> and he told me that far more sites are hosted on NT servers rather
> than Unix. He was talking about the www in general. I'm new to this
> whole thing so I didn't argue but I'm thinking that he's wrong.


http://www.netcraft.com/survey/

G.

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From bev at enso-company.com  Fri Nov 22 11:18:00 2002
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
Message-ID: <17d101c2924d$151ffc30$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds>

I doubt if that is true when you look at webhosting on a global level.  It
may be true for the USA, or certain parts of USA, however, I find that
difficult to imagine.  The last statistics I saw gave Unix 60%, Windows 40%,
others 20%.  The stats were from a few years ago, but I would be very
surprised if this changed that significantly over the past two years or so.
But then again, hard to say.  I did read somewhere that the majority of the
dot com busts were running Windows, and especially Flash sites...... but I
don't recall where that was.  I'll have to go digging.

Bev

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Medley" <dm at lgcy.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:04 AM
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx


> I just talked to the server that a client of mine hosts his site on and he
> told me that far more sites are hosted on NT servers rather than Unix. He
> was talking about the www in general. I'm new to this whole thing so I
> didn't argue but I'm thinking that he's wrong.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Daniel Medley





From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Nov 22 11:19:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices
References: <8A058F0155A3D611BA020002A53FB676014FE555@MERCURY>
Message-ID: <00be01c2924b$2b2199a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> Are there any reference sites that cover the basics
> (what to do... what not to do...) in language your mum
> would understand? I'm thinking more of good
> practice rather than HTML techniques.

graham, use these for comic relief somewhere in your presentation --

  http://budugllydesign.com/archivebud/bud9806/bud.html

  http://www.ecnet.net/users/gas52r0/Jay/
  the left frame is particularly hilarious --
    "Did anyone bother to think about the user experience?"
    "Sure. Everyone did. The users'll love it. Especially when
             we add the streaming video."

rudy



From bev at enso-company.com  Fri Nov 22 11:21:01 2002
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:21:01 2002
Subject: Correction - Re: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
Message-ID: <17d901c2924d$84f91a50$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds>

Correction - Sorry for the typo in the previous post, my Unix should read
40% - oops.

Should read:


> I doubt if that is true when you look at webhosting on a global level.  It
> may be true for the USA, or certain parts of USA, however, I find that
> difficult to imagine.  The last statistics I saw gave Unix 40%, Windows
40%,
> others 20%.  The stats were from a few years ago, but I would be very
> surprised if this changed that significantly over the past two years or
so.
> But then again, hard to say.  I did read somewhere that the majority of
the
> dot com busts were running Windows, and especially Flash sites...... but I
> don't recall where that was.  I'll have to go digging.
>
> Bev





From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Nov 22 11:22:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw>
Message-ID: <00c801c2924b$98a52f00$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> I just talked to the server that a client of mine hosts his site on and he
> told me that far more sites are hosted on NT servers rather than Unix. He
> was talking about the www in general. I'm new to this whole thing so I
> didn't argue but I'm thinking that he's wrong.

he's not wrong if those NT servers are all running apache web servers   ;o)

  http://netcraft.com/survey/

35 million servers surveyed, and NT is a very distant second


rudy



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 11:24:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A3@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi Graham,

I think you can learn about what to do, by knowing what not to do:
http://www.websitesthatsuck.com/. Vincent seems to know what he's doing and
I've read his book. He gives a good reference of stylistic preferences of
(see first sentence) of what and what not to do.

Enjoy,

Rob.Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Bird, Graham [mailto:Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:02 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices


Hi,

I'm sure this has been asked before, but searching the archive gave nothing
obvious.

The charity I work for has "Members' Groups" all over the UK, some of which
produce their own (often dire) websites. We are to give a presentation to
these eager beavers in order to bring them into line a bit, and I'm looking
for some URLs we can give them for homework.

Are there any reference sites that cover the basics (what to do... what not
to do...) in language your mum would understand? I'm thinking more of good
practice rather than HTML techniques.

Any ideas would be very much appreciated...

Cheers,

Graham
--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From evolt at marsorange.com  Fri Nov 22 11:26:00 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <79DDDE36-FE3C-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <58322722-FE3F-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Friday, Nov 22, 2002, at 11:04 US/Central, MarsHall wrote:
> In fact, there currently is NO DIFFERENCE between print() and echo().

I lied ;)

In the nitty-gritty details, print() can act like a function, because
it will set a return value. So, this works:

	$foo = print "Hello World!";

while doing the same with echo():

	$foo = echo "Hello World!";

would NOT set $foo.

Although, to me they are synonyms! I can't imagine where I would use
that function-like behaviour of print().

Mars :)



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 11:36:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices
In-Reply-To: <00be01c2924b$2b2199a0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021122173518.78475.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
> > Are there any reference sites that cover the basics
> > (what to do... what not to do...) in language your mum
> > would understand? I'm thinking more of good
> > practice rather than HTML techniques.
>
> graham, use these for comic relief somewhere in your presentation

Okay, I wasn't going to post this but Rudy started it..

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail51.html

I think this is the most hilarious thing I have ever seen, especially
the part about the flash intro. Watch it twice.

Ok, a tip for posting this:

<tip type="javascript confirm dialogs" author="pixelmech">
When you are giving the user an option to cancel or continue a
process with a confirm dialog, its a good idea to let them in on the
exact item referred to. eh what?

For example, lets say you are using a confirm to make sure they want
to delete an item in a list of 10 items. What many users will do is
click delete, then see the confirm box and wonder - wait - what did I
click on and do I really want to delete it? So they cancel, and make
sure they carefully read the item before deletion.

To avoid this, when you call your confirm box, send along some info
as parameters, like so:

onclick(or whatever) = "confirmTheDelete(itemName);"

Then in your confirm box you can tell them "Hey you are about to
delete ITEM NAME, are you sure, knucklehead?" instead of just "Hey,
knucklehead, do you really want to delete this?"

A little info goes a long way :)
</tip>

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Nov 22 11:41:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D75@nj16-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David at softv.net [mailto:David at softv.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:16 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] ASP help needed
>
>
> Have you printed out the SQL statement on the page as I suggested in a
> previous message? That will definitely help.

I saw this suggestion on several of the web sites, I checked before
bothering you kind folks, but I can't get that to work either.  Yesterday I
was getting an error message about "expected end of statement" I tried it
again today
the page is still returning that Incorrect syntax near '=' message - not the
SQL statement.

Guess I'm doing that wrong as well <g>.

-- Kath ...
work --> www.winebow.com
home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com --


From David at softv.net  Fri Nov 22 11:46:00 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A54D2@SOFTVMAIL>

The error IS in the sql statement. This is stated right in the error
message:
[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver]...
This tells you that the SQL Server driver is telling you that the SQL
statement is incorrect.

Dave



From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Nov 22 11:47:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Concise list of web design good practices
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB9A@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bird, Graham [mailto:Graham.Bird at rspb.org.uk]
> Sent: November 22, 2002 12:02 PM

> Are there any reference sites that cover the basics (what to
> do... what not to do...) in language your mum would
> understand? I'm thinking more of good practice rather than
> HTML techniques.

I created this *very* concise list a few years ago, and is aimed at
people who may work with Web pages, but are not Web designers:
<http://www.saila.com/usage/design/>

This was a brief style guide I built for a project a couple of years
ago:
<http://www.saila.com/usage/design/styleguide/basic.shtml>

Of course, a broader, and more comprehensive one is the New York Public
Library Online Style Guide:
<http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/>

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From seyon at delime.com  Fri Nov 22 11:48:01 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
In-Reply-To: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D72@nj16-exchange.wineb
 ow.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021122134527.022323b8@mail.delime.com>

Message from Kathleen Heytink (11/22/2002 10:34 AM)

>I pulled the script on this page -->
>http://www.winebow.com/test5d.asp?producer=1 from one of the other pages on
>our web site, because it does what I want - display a list of wines for a
>given producer.
>
>However when I attempt to add it to this page -->
>http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206  I'm getting an error.

Shot in the dark.

Might the problem be that the original script looks for a value named
"producer" from the querystring? The value it would find in the second page
is named "ID".

regards.
-marc


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 11:56:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
Message-ID: <20021122175520.30248.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

I've got a form with TWO submit buttons - one is edit one is delete.
Depending on which button is pressed, my php page either gives the
user an edit form with the variable passed by the form filled in - or
it simply deletes the item.

Now, of course I want them to confirm the deletion. Here's the
trouble. I can't use the onClick event handler since its a submit
button. (Although I tried various ways to make this work, such as
setting theform.submit = false while passing this.form, which
failed).

If I use the onSubmit handler (which I would normally do), then I
will get the confirm for edit, which I don't want.

Any ideas? Somehow I need to know which button has been pressed in my
function or somwehat..

Tom

=====
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http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
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From seyon at delime.com  Fri Nov 22 11:57:00 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Fri Nov 22 11:57:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20021122134527.022323b8@mail.delime.com>
References: <3855EEF37EF343458A5131A8BBC52241077D72@nj16-exchange.wineb ow.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021122135443.02240500@mail.delime.com>

Message from Marc Seyon (11/22/2002 01:46 PM)
>Message from Kathleen Heytink (11/22/2002 10:34 AM)
>
>>I pulled the script on this page -->
>>http://www.winebow.com/test5d.asp?producer=1 from one of the other pages on
>>our web site, because it does what I want - display a list of wines for a
>>given producer.
>>
>>However when I attempt to add it to this page -->
>>http://www.winebow.com/Nshortdet.asp?ID=206  I'm getting an error.
>
>Shot in the dark.
>
>Might the problem be that the original script looks for a value named
>"producer" from the querystring? The value it would find in the second page
>is named "ID".

Ok, actually took a look at the code now. Found these two lines:

sqlstr = " select varietalname from winefact where estate = " &
request.querystring("producer")

sqlstrimg = "select prodname from producer where id = " &
request.querystring("producer")

Perhaps changing those to request.querystring("ID")

regards.
-marc


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Fri Nov 22 12:06:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP help needed
Message-ID: <40BE5618BBFAD6119DAC0004ACE530C686977A@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


> sqlstr = " select varietalname from winefact where estate = " &
request.querystring("producer")

Well I am coming in late to this party, but I would if producer is a text
value then it will need to be put in quotes.

sqlstr = ... where estate = '" & request.querystring("producer") & "'"

Josh
http://www.efeingold.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 12:16:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/sql - getting the rows right help (still my menuitem thing)
Message-ID: <20021122181549.16276.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

I think I've got it all right except how I am pulling or displaying
my result set. Quick review, I have 2 tables, menuitem which has menu
items and a categoryID in it, and category which relates to one or
more menuitems and also has a parentID in it.

If a category has a parentID, it is a subcategory (the parentID is
the id of another category).

What I want to display is:

Category (ie. Lunch)
  burger (menuitem)
Category (dinner)
  Monday (subcategory of dinner)
    Steak (menuitem)

My SQL is:

SELECT menuitem.item, menuitem.menuitemID, menuitem.description,
menuitem.price, menuitem.categoryID, category.category,
category.blurb, category.pretext, category.parentID FROM menuitem,
category WHERE (menuitem.categoryID = category.categoryID) ORDER BY
category, item

(i am pulling everything from both tables)

My PHP to show it is:

$lastcat = "";
while($row = mysql_fetch_array($result))
{
  <just declare all the vars here, ie $id = $row["menuitemID"];>

    if($category != $lastcat)
    {
      print "<div class='category'>$category";
      if($blurb){
        print ' : ('.$blurb.')';
      }
      print '</div>';
      if(isset($pretext)){
        print "<div class='pretext'>$pretext</div>";
      }
      $lastcat = $category;
    }
    print "<the information here>";
}
--

The problem is, I have 2 categories set up with parentIDs, so they
should be subcategories and (ie, monday should come up under dinner)
but instead I just get

category
 menuitem

etc.

Any ideas -- I'm guessing my PHP is wrong since I have all the
information, but maybe I'm not grouping it right in the SQL?

Tom

=====
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http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

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From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Fri Nov 22 12:19:00 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
References: <892130A6-FE34-11D6-A2B5-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>
Message-ID: <oprf9zslqszwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:07:44 -0500, Michael Barrett <mbarrett at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> Wacky. Does this work in Win IE 6 only?

I believe in works in IE 5.5 or 6.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Nov 22 12:24:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/sql - getting the rows right help (still my menuitem thing)
References: <20021122181549.16276.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c29254$3092cb30$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

you haven't done anything to get the parents of the categories that the
menuitems are related to

you want

select stuff
   from menuitem
inner join category X
       on menuitem.categoryID = X.categoryID
left outer join category Y
       on X.parentID = Y.categoryID

the reason you want a left outer join is for those instances where the
menuitem's category doesn't have a parent category

sorting the output to get subcategories correctly "nested" under their
parent categories is your next challenge

how about i come over to your office and we can do this in person?


rudy



From jbauer at chimesnet.com  Fri Nov 22 12:24:16 2002
From: jbauer at chimesnet.com (Jason Bauer)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:24:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
In-Reply-To: <20021122175520.30248.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FJEDJFDNEOBNOEFPHNOKAECHCCAA.jbauer@chimesnet.com>

> I've got a form with TWO submit buttons - one is edit one is delete.
> Depending on which button is pressed, my php page either gives the
> user an edit form with the variable passed by the form filled in - or
> it simply deletes the item.
>
> Now, of course I want them to confirm the deletion. Here's the
> trouble. I can't use the onClick event handler since its a submit
> button. (Although I tried various ways to make this work, such as
> setting theform.submit = false while passing this.form, which
> failed).

Why don't you do this check on the page you are submitting to? If they
selected delete, you can display the item with another set of buttons to
Confirm or Cancel the delete.

This method has two big benefits. First, they get the option of viewing
whatever it is that they are deleting, so they don't accidentally delete
something because of a typo. Secondly, it will work for non-JavaScript
people.

This should be pretty simple if your posting to the same page, you'll just
have four if blocks. One if nothing is submitted (display form), 1 for
Delete button (show confirm page), 1 for Delete Confirmed (delete record)
and 1 for Edit record.

---
Jason Bauer
jbauer at chimesnet.com
Programmer/Analyst
Chimes, Inc.





From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 12:59:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 12:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A4@smtmb.tmc.local>

[snip]
I've got a form with TWO submit buttons - one is edit one is delete.
Depending on which button is pressed, my PHP page either gives the
user an edit form with the variable passed by the form filled in - or
it simply deletes the item.
[/snip]

I have a working example of how to fix this and although I can't show it via
a link, I'll tell you how it works.

You have a form that sends via POST or GET, going to a PHP parsing page
right? Simple enough. All you need to do is this:

Scenario A) action="POST" :: Request from the form, the name of the submit
button. If the name = "Edit" then do this action. Else "delete" it.
Scenario B) action="GET"  :: If you look at the query string, you'll notice
that the Submit button name is included as the last item in the query
string. So find out what it is, and proceed from there.

Basically, the structure of your form parsing page is one huge IF...Else...
construct.

Good luck!

Rob.Smith


From lists at prydain.com  Fri Nov 22 13:01:01 2002
From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Use PHP for content?
In-Reply-To: <00fb01c2921f$4b89d1c0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <DCEDJKBGIEODDJELANMPOEGHDBAA.lists@prydain.com>

> actually, XSSI (extended server side includes) does
> include logic capabilities
>
> XSSI is a standard feature of apache, if i'm not mistaken
>
> here's a "smart" nav bar that senses what page it's on --
> http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3803

So if you want to write a more complex link (maybe a table with specific
borders to represent a tab, or whatever else), you would have to write a
big, bloated <!--#if-->/<!--#else--> argument for each one, instead of
writing a single function and just passing in the bits that change?  And how
does XSSI deal with arrays, for things like writing crumb trails?  And how
about objects?

Basically, my argument is that if you're going to go through the trouble to
add dynamic aspects to a page, why not use a technology that was built
specifically for that (like PHP) instead of one that appears to be designed
for something much more basic and extended to do a little bit more.

Besides, if I had to read someone else's code in XSSI where the code itself
visually blends in with the HTML comments, I'd go mad.  I had to deal with a
home-grown language with a similar syntax once, and there was a distinct
loss in productivity for the time I spent trying to read code that *should*
have been simple and straight-forward.


But this is getting completely off the original topic of whether or not PHP
is useful for content, so I'll leave it at that.

--ray




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 13:01:10 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:01:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/sql - getting the rows right help (still my menuitem thing)
In-Reply-To: <001b01c29254$3092cb30$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <20021122190052.38045.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

--- rudy <r937 at interlog.com> wrote:
> you haven't done anything to get the parents of the categories that
> the
> menuitems are related to
>
> you want
>
> select stuff
>    from menuitem
> inner join category X
>        on menuitem.categoryID = X.categoryID
> left outer join category Y
>        on X.parentID = Y.categoryID

So I have to REWRITE my current select, or add another one? (I'm
guessing we are rewriting it)

> the reason you want a left outer join is for those instances where
> the
> menuitem's category doesn't have a parent category

This kind of makes sense, I have *some* experience with joins when I
did a big project on SQL Server but it was awhile ago (man you don't
use it you lose it)

> sorting the output to get subcategories correctly "nested" under
> their
> parent categories is your next challenge

> how about i come over to your office and we can do this in person?

When can you be here! ;)

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

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From shawn at alterior.net  Fri Nov 22 13:09:01 2002
From: shawn at alterior.net (shawn allen)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] print and echo (was: php forms)
In-Reply-To: <008b01c29248$22955db0$7d9bf8c1@sicor.francetelecom.fr>
References: <20021122163255.99169.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <008b01c29248$22955db0$7d9bf8c1@sicor.francetelecom.fr>
Message-ID: <20021122190511.GB25477@gryphon>

quoth DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR:
> I seem to prefer echo(), someone explianed the reason to me a long
> time ago and I found it convincing enough to stop using print. I guess
> it's got something to do with future deprecation and coherence of code
> (all other functions being ()'d).

If you're used to perl or C, you'll probably be more comfortable with
print. Also, I'd like to point out that neither print nor echo are
functions, they're /language constructs/. I don't see the use of either
without parens being "deprecated" any time soon... the Zend folks have
much more important things to work on (like the OO implementation) than
making code appear more "coherent".

Besides, a lot of people leave off the parens for the /purpose/ of
distinguishing print, include, and require constructs from other
statements.

And as for the differences between the two (besides those stated in the
manual): <http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1/fid/40>

--
shawn allen
  mailto://shawn at alterior.net
  phone://415.577.3961
  http://alterior.net
  aim://shawnpallen



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 13:09:32 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:09:32 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <004801c291bf$da417860$c06237d2@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEJJEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I tried putting the table inbetwen the <div> but alas nothing.  I then tried
the class within the <table> and again nothing.

Any ideas?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of michael ensor
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 00:40
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] layers not frames


Including a table within the div as specified will work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W. Parker" <cparker at swatgear.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames


>
> you could put the table INSIDE a div and give the div overflow: auto;
> that might work. i have never tried it out though.
>
> maybe i'm wrong about all this. someone let me know if i am.



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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Nov 22 13:23:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEIBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDE83ED.3010105@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> ok I tried putting the table inbetwen the <div> but alas nothing.  I then ttried
> the class within the <table> and agin nothing.
>
> Any ideas?

> Semantics about boxes aside, sure, overflow will work with a table
> (or better, a tbody, leaving your table's headers and footers fixed)
> set to an explicit height.

Hm. OK, I've made a test case, though I'm getting slightly different
results than I remember from last time -- ??
   try { remember(); } catch ( Exception SeniorMoment ) { feh(); }
   finally {

Anyway, Moz 1.1/W2K doesn't seem to recognize overflow and a fixed
height on TABLE, but does on TBODY (which is actually preferable,
I'd say). IE 5.5 fails spectacularly by assigning the TBODY height
to each *row* - really bizarre. Opera 7 ducks the issue entirely.
}

So, it's useful and valid, but browser support is spotty. Surprise.

Here's the TBODY CSS I used in my test case with a very long table:

tbody {
	height: 300px;
	overflow: scroll;
	}

HTH!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 13:35:00 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A5@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi list,

I'm workin' on a static CD HTML catalog that utilizes frames and lots of
Pdf's.

+-----------------------+
| Main Title            |
+------+----------------+
|      |                |
| link |                |
| link |    mainFrame   |
| link |                |
+------+----------------+

The link's links point to the mainFrame. The mainFrame will display various
product pages. Inside these product pages, we have links to the PDF
specification sheets. *everything is in PDF format that is related to the
product. Now on the live Web site version, everything works find and
everything is displayed in the mainFrame frame.

My problem is when I try to make a CD-Catalog of this, I'll occasionally
have Pdf's open in a new window. We don't want that. Now currently, all the
links do not have a target="" specified. Would specifying target="_self"
guarantee my pdf's to not open in a new window?

Thanks,

Rob.Smith


From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Fri Nov 22 13:39:01 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russ)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A5@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <008a01c2925e$d9855410$1503a8c0@autolycus>

Target_self would have them link to your navigation frame, if I'm
following your frameset.  If you can target them to "mainFrame",
however, I would think it would work.

Russ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:39 PM
> To: Thelist (E-mail)
> Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
>
>
> Hi list,
>
> I'm workin' on a static CD HTML catalog that utilizes frames
> and lots of Pdf's.
>
> +-----------------------+
> | Main Title            |
> +------+----------------+
> |      |                |
> | link |                |
> | link |    mainFrame   |
> | link |                |
> +------+----------------+
>
> The link's links point to the mainFrame. The mainFrame will
> display various product pages. Inside these product pages, we
> have links to the PDF specification sheets. *everything is in
> PDF format that is related to the product. Now on the live
> Web site version, everything works find and everything is
> displayed in the mainFrame frame.
>
> My problem is when I try to make a CD-Catalog of this, I'll
> occasionally have Pdf's open in a new window. We don't want
> that. Now currently, all the links do not have a target=""
> specified. Would specifying target="_self" guarantee my pdf's
> to not open in a new window?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob.Smith
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 13:42:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A6@smtmb.tmc.local>

The product specification links are inside the mainFrame frame so setting
"_Self" would guarantee it to open in the mainFrame frame? ...

Rob.Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Russ [mailto:russ at unrealisticexpectations.com]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:39 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\


Target_self would have them link to your navigation frame, if I'm
following your frameset.  If you can target them to "mainFrame",
however, I would think it would work.

Russ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:39 PM
> To: Thelist (E-mail)
> Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
>
>
> Hi list,
>
> I'm workin' on a static CD HTML catalog that utilizes frames
> and lots of Pdf's.
>
> +-----------------------+
> | Main Title            |
> +------+----------------+
> |      |                |
> | link |                |
> | link |    mainFrame   |
> | link |                |
> +------+----------------+
>
> The link's links point to the mainFrame. The mainFrame will
> display various product pages. Inside these product pages, we
> have links to the PDF specification sheets. *everything is in
> PDF format that is related to the product. Now on the live
> Web site version, everything works find and everything is
> displayed in the mainFrame frame.
>
> My problem is when I try to make a CD-Catalog of this, I'll
> occasionally have Pdf's open in a new window. We don't want
> that. Now currently, all the links do not have a target=""
> specified. Would specifying target="_self" guarantee my pdf's
> to not open in a new window?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob.Smith
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
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and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
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From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 13:46:00 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0D2@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Smith [mailto:rob.smith at THERMON.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:46 AM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\
>
>
> The product specification links are inside the mainFrame
> frame so setting
> "_Self" would guarantee it to open in the mainFrame frame? ...

it makes sense to say that both methods would work. if you specify
"_self" the page should open in whatever frame the link is in. if you
specify "mainFrame" the page will load in the "mainFrame", which just so
happens to be the same frame the links are in.

if you want to find out for sure, test it.


chris.

p.s. remember to trim messages.


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 13:57:01 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 13:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat and Frames :-\ (New Question)
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44A8@smtmb.tmc.local>

Thanks for your help, I just wanted to know. I've done some tests already,
but I won't be completely satisfied until I test the whole thing over 3
times on every OS and version of a web browser we have available.

Acrobat usually blows up after about 20 or so clicks (opening of Pdf's) and
starts opening docs in new windows. Mind you this is the CD version, not the
on-line version. I hit the refresh button once again and I find a Pdf that I
clicked a few minutes ago is still in the mainFrame frame; as if time
stopped, thus causing the browser/reader to break. I've heard other tails of
Pdf file names being too long. Anyone heard about this? Adobe has no clue
what I'm talking about, yet my IT dept knows of the bug. Is it a known, or
unknown bug?

Rob.Smith

p.s. I really like Opera! (...the Web Browser...)


>it makes sense to say that both methods would work. if you specify
>"_self" the page should open in whatever frame the link is in. if you
>specify "mainFrame" the page will load in the "mainFrame", which just so
>happens to be the same frame the links are in.

>if you want to find out for sure, test it.


>chris.

>p.s. remember to trim messages.

done.


From dougal at gunters.org  Fri Nov 22 14:04:01 2002
From: dougal at gunters.org (Dougal Campbell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <79DDDE36-FE3C-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <20021122135602.H24936-100000@ns2.iguanasoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, MarsHall wrote:

> On Friday, Nov 22, 2002, at 10:54 US/Central, Dougal Campbell wrote:
> > For the most part, there's no differences. But there are a few *subtle*
> > differences where print will work, and echo will not. See the PHP
> > manual
> > for details and examples:
> >   http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.echo.php
> >   http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.print.php
>
> In fact, there currently is NO DIFFERENCE between print() and echo().
> The subtle difference you speak of is in regards to Variable Functions,
> which is actually an error in the PHP documentation! See:
> http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=16739
>
> They are synonyms for the same construct. Your choice. Consistency in
> your own code should be top priority. So, pick one and stick to it.
>
> Also, both echo and print function without parenthesis around their
> argument.

That error is different from what makes them different. Check the end of
the examples for "echo":

  // Because echo is not a function, following code is invalid.
  ($some_var) ? echo('true'): echo('false');

  // However, the following examples will work:
  ($some_var) ? print('true'): print('false'); // print is a function
  echo $some_var ? 'true': 'false'; // changing the statement around

I checked this on my server (running PHP 4.2.3), and using echo within
the ternary operator does indeed throw an error, whereas print works
just fine.

See also:
  http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1/fid/40

So, at least in PHP 4.2.x, the implementations for echo and print are
*not* exactly the same. The miniscule speed gain you might get with echo
would probably only matter if you were using it to print *many* lines of
output in a loop. And print is a little more flexible since it behaves
more like a real function.

--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III, MCP+I, MCSE <dougal at gunters.org>
http://dougal.gunters.org/             http://spam.gunters.org/
  Web Design & Development:  http://www.mentalcollective.com/
       This message is guaranteed to be 100% eror frea!



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Nov 22 14:12:00 2002
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:12:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] JS Popup Problems......
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122140959.00b8cb30@redhotsweeps.com>

Hello all, Does anyone see anything wrong with the JS code below?  It is
popping up like it needs to, but there are no scrollbars.   I have tried
this on 2 other systems and the scrollbars don't show.  Everything else
seems to work ok.  Any tips?

function popUp(){
   popUpWin = open('/2002giveawayrules.htm', 'popUpWin',
'toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbar=yes,resizable=yes,width=500,height=300');
}

Chris



From list01 at theparagon.org  Fri Nov 22 14:13:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
Message-ID: <BA03F9E6.16BF%list01@theparagon.org>

I convinced my boss to allow me to let me convert our Newspaper's website
into CSS. Our site: www.hollandsentinel.com.

However, he said - "If we're going to re-code it - Why not redesign it as
well?"

So I need some design ideas. What are some things you would do if YOU were
to design a newspapers website? What would be your perfect newspaper
website?

Basically I need to redesign www.hollandsentinel.com



-----------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org





From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 22 14:14:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Recording screen resolution in web logs
In-Reply-To: <55ED5FD3B4D2D41193E60002A5090BCD030325ED@scorpio.pres.co>
Message-ID: <200211222013.gAMKD0SL019940@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Francois Jordaan <francois.jordaan at wheel.co.uk>
>
> I want to add some code to a website so that I can survey for the next
> 3 months the users' browser specs. This will give me stats to work
> with for a planned redesign.
[...]
> Would this work?
> a. write some Javascript that docwrites a query string onto an image
> on the home page, something like ?x=640&y=480 b. Server web log
> records the query string c. report off the web log in due course

oh, this is *too* easy... c'mon, ask me something hard!

Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I
http://evolt.org/Screen_Stats_1

it's a JS/ASP/cookie solution, but you can easily see how it can be
rebuilt in PHP, JSP, or colored legos set on quantum bit-switches
within a colloidal suspension tank...

ok, i haven't done the last one yet...

oh, and be sure you read part 2...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Nov 22 14:18:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JS Popup Problems......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122140959.00b8cb30@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJMELPCNAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

IIRC it's "scrollbars=yes" not "scrollbar=yes".  Try that out.

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Hello all, Does anyone see anything wrong with the JS code below?  It is
> popping up like it needs to, but there are no scrollbars.   I have tried
> this on 2 other systems and the scrollbars don't show.  Everything else
> seems to work ok.  Any tips?
>
> function popUp(){
>    popUpWin = open('/2002giveawayrules.htm', 'popUpWin',
> 'toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scroll
> bar=yes,resizable=yes,width=500,height=300');
> }
>
> Chris
>


From dougal at gunters.org  Fri Nov 22 14:19:01 2002
From: dougal at gunters.org (Dougal Campbell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php form
In-Reply-To: <58322722-FE3F-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <20021122140455.H24936-100000@ns2.iguanasoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, MarsHall wrote:

> On Friday, Nov 22, 2002, at 11:04 US/Central, MarsHall wrote:
> > In fact, there currently is NO DIFFERENCE between print() and echo().
>
> I lied ;)

I already replied to your other message before I saw that one, but what
the hey....

> In the nitty-gritty details, print() can act like a function, because
> it will set a return value. So, this works:
>
> 	$foo = print "Hello World!";
>
> while doing the same with echo():
>
> 	$foo = echo "Hello World!";
>
> would NOT set $foo.
>
> Although, to me they are synonyms! I can't imagine where I would use
> that function-like behaviour of print().

Well, I mentioned that example previously:
  ($some_var) ? print('true'): print('false'); // print is a function

However, I'd probably never do that in my code. I'd more likely do
something like:

  print (($some_var) ? 'true' : 'false');

The docs say that print returns FALSE on failure. But what kind of
failure are they talking about? Even if printing the value of an unset
variable, it returns true....

--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III, MCP+I, MCSE <dougal at gunters.org>
http://dougal.gunters.org/             http://spam.gunters.org/
  Web Design & Development:  http://www.mentalcollective.com/
       This message is guaranteed to be 100% eror frea!



From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Fri Nov 22 14:21:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BB9E@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> So I need some design ideas. What are some things you would
> do if YOU were to design a newspapers website? What would be
> your perfect newspaper website?

On hand: http://www.iht.com/
On the other: http://news.google.com/

Both rely on some impressive technology and both have clean designs.
Google News is  better for constant updates, IHT for less regular ones.
(BTW, much of the technology behind IHT was made open source by its
developer at:
<http://www.smokinggun.com/>)

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Fri Nov 22 14:21:14 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:21:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] JS Popup Problems......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122140959.00b8cb30@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021122141948.04d203f8@mail.imaginuity.com>

Isn't it "scrollbars", with an S at the end?

--Ben

At 02:12 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>Hello all, Does anyone see anything wrong with the JS code below?  It is
>popping up like it needs to, but there are no scrollbars.   I have tried
>this on 2 other systems and the scrollbars don't show.  Everything else
>seems to work ok.  Any tips?
>
>function popUp(){
>   popUpWin = open('/2002giveawayrules.htm', 'popUpWin',
>'toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbar=yes,resizable=yes,width=500,height=300');
>}




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Nov 22 14:22:01 2002
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JS Popup Problems......
In-Reply-To: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJMELPCNAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122140959.00b8cb30@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122142109.01e79c78@redhotsweeps.com>

Duh....Thanks.  That was it.  New question....

IIRC?  What does that stand for?

Chris

At 02:19 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>IIRC it's "scrollbars=yes" not "scrollbar=yes".  Try that out.
>
>Chris Blessing
>webguy at mail.rit.edu
>http://www.330i.net



From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov 22 14:22:26 2002
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:22:26 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Ultradev Wildcard Character
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44AA@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi list,

Is there a wildcard character in Dreamweaver that would allow me to a search
based on a patter of characters...

from:
<LINK href="productA_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
<LINK href="productB_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
<LINK href="productC_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>

to: (replacing anything between     'href="' and '/display.css' )
<LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
<LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
<LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>

Thanks

Rob.Smith


From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Nov 22 14:28:00 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] JS Popup Problems......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122142109.01e79c78@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKEMBCNAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

"If I recall correctly" to me. :D

FWIW = for what it's worth
AFAIK = as far as I know
STFU = ... well you get the picture.

;)

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Duh....Thanks.  That was it.  New question....
>
> IIRC?  What does that stand for?
>
> Chris
>
> At 02:19 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
> >IIRC it's "scrollbars=yes" not "scrollbar=yes".  Try that out.
> >
> >Chris Blessing
> >webguy at mail.rit.edu
> >http://www.330i.net
>


From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Fri Nov 22 14:42:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Weird PHP parse error
Message-ID: <oprf96fehdzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

Can anyone tell me why PHP would report a parse error on the second line of
this SIMPLE loop?

for($i=0;$i<=$u;$i++) {
	echo "yeah";
}

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by
allowing  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From dan at danromanchik.com  Fri Nov 22 14:43:01 2002
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
References: <BA03F9E6.16BF%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <013701c29267$b2497300$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01>

I think it would be nice for readers to specify which news they see on the
first page. something along the lines of my.yahoo.com, but with a more local
focus. If, for example, I'm interested in prep sports, I should be able to
put those scores somewhere on the first page and not have to search around
for them. The same could be said about a number of other things for which
people regularly consult newspapers:

- movie listings
- school board stories
- events listings
- etc.

I know that's a lot of work, but you did ask. :)

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "{ schaapy }" <list01 at theparagon.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?


>
> I convinced my boss to allow me to let me convert our Newspaper's website
> into CSS. Our site: www.hollandsentinel.com.
>
> However, he said - "If we're going to re-code it - Why not redesign it as
> well?"
>
> So I need some design ideas. What are some things you would do if YOU were
> to design a newspapers website? What would be your perfect newspaper
> website?
>
> Basically I need to redesign www.hollandsentinel.com
>
>
>
> -----------------
> Aaron Schaap
> www.theparagon.org
>
>
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 14:43:17 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:43:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <3DDE83ED.3010105@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEJNEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

tbody {
	height: 300px;
	overflow: scroll;
	}

doesn't do the job.

added to this problem is that the table in quesion is the footer of the page and
below another table that holds the main content of the page.  So the plot
thickens :(

Andrew

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 14:50:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEIBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <3DDD9110.8030204@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122124843.023e1f50@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 03:03 AM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>ok I tried putting the table inbetwen the <div> but alas nothing.  I then
>ttried
>the class within the <table> and agin nothing.

         Can we see the code?

         -Max

         P.S. Please stop having AVG scan emails without attachments.
--



From taranis at spittingllamas.com  Fri Nov 22 14:52:01 2002
From: taranis at spittingllamas.com (Alex Ezell)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Weird PHP parse error
References: <oprf96fehdzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <oprf96wmqxzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:41:28 -0500, Alex Ezell <taranis at spittingllamas.com> wrote:

Please ignore. It was just some weird hidden character problem apparently.
Unix vs. Mac vs. PC end lines or something.

--
Alex Ezell
http://www.spittingllamas.com
"Formal Restrictions, contrary to what you might think, free you up by allowing
  you to concentrate on purer ideas."
- Winter Sorbeck in Chip Kidd's The Cheese Monkeys


From davidu at everydns.net  Fri Nov 22 14:53:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
References: <BA03F9E6.16BF%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <001d01c29269$22a31650$2532fc80@pravda>

{ schaapy } wrote:
> So I need some design ideas. What are some things you would do if YOU
> were to design a newspapers website? What would be your perfect
> newspaper website?

I'm sure a lot will disagree with me but I find http://www.iht.com/ to be
very easy to read and very nice.

Simple and clean.  Could you ask for anything else? (that's rhetorical
folks!)

-davidu




From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 14:53:15 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:53:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape ugly space in frames
In-Reply-To: <002001c2921d$2db46860$0e01a8c0@ArmadaM700>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122125241.023bb5c8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 03:49 AM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>on this site http://www.salsaperfecta.nl I use a frameset, works fine in IE.

Just found out NS (7.0) shows an ugly 1px (?) space in between some frames.


         Your answer is here:

         http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2002/img-table/

         -M
--



From beau at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 22 14:55:00 2002
From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:55:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Weird PHP parse error
In-Reply-To: <oprf96fehdzwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c29269$4f196180$8f01a8c0@Cube>

> Can anyone tell me why PHP would report a parse error on the second
line of
> this SIMPLE loop?
>
> for($i=0;$i<=$u;$i++) {
> 	echo "yeah";
> }

I don't get a parse error, I get a couple notices. The notices appear
because you have not assigned a value to the variable $u.

Try this:

<?php

$u = 5;

for($i=0;$i<=$u;$i++) {
	echo "yeah";
}

?>

Beau




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 14:57:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 14:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122124843.023e1f50@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEJOEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

all the code is in this page

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Max Kanat-Alexander
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 20:49
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 03:03 AM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>ok I tried putting the table inbetwen the <div> but alas nothing.  I then
>ttried
>the class within the <table> and agin nothing.

         Can we see the code?

         -Max

         P.S. Please stop having AVG scan emails without attachments.



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Nov 22 15:02:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEJNEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDE9B39.1050805@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> tbody {
> 	height: 300px;
> 	overflow: scroll;
> 	}
>
> doesn't do the job.

Sorry, doesn't do *what* job? Could you restate what you're trying
to accomplish? That might help...

--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 15:06:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <3DDE9B39.1050805@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEJPEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
incase text is more than anticipated and a scoll occurrs I thought I could make
the navigation a top layer instead of introducing frames.  Should I use css? Is
it the hidden: I need to use?

Haven't really used this before as i prefer scrolling :)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 21:02
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] layers not frames


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> tbody {
> 	height: 300px;
> 	overflow: scroll;
> 	}
>
> doesn't do the job.

Sorry, doesn't do *what* job? Could you restate what you're trying
to accomplish? That might help...

--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 15:07:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] graphic design :: fade out?
In-Reply-To: <892130A6-FE34-11D6-A2B5-0050E43A7E0C@triad.rr.com>
References: <oprf9sx6kizwn46f@mail.spittingllamas.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122130109.0229c4c8@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 08:07 AM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>Wacky. Does this work in Win IE 6 only?

         The whole documentation on the thang is here:

         http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/filter.asp

         I just discovered it yesterday. I've been using it to match
"-moz-opacity" for IE/Win. (Geee. Maybe if we have ENOUGH proprietary tags
we can rule the world...! I'm just looking forward to CSS3 when I can solve
that whole thing with just "opacity:")

         As far as "what CSS does what IE _technically_ support:" (That is,
sometimes it has weird support for something that it says it supports,
especially pre-IE6.)

         http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/css/reference/attributes.asp

         -M




----------
http://www.mp3.com/GoodnightMoon
My music is my life--come share it with me.
--



From evolt at marsorange.com  Fri Nov 22 15:08:00 2002
From: evolt at marsorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
In-Reply-To: <BA03F9E6.16BF%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <47DFD42D-FE5E-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>

On Friday, Nov 22, 2002, at 14:12 US/Central, { schaapy } wrote:
> So I need some design ideas. What are some things you would do if YOU
> were
> to design a newspapers website? What would be your perfect newspaper
> website?

I am a BIG fan of http://www.wired.com/

They have always been ahead-of-the-curve in design; recently they
switched to a table-less, all-CSS layout. Yeah!

Lot's of good stuff can be found by perusing their source code.

Mars :)



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 15:17:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0D4@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

andrew,

you are doing something wrong. i tested it and it worked fine (in ie 6
sp1).

you can see the test page i made at
http://www.swatgear.com/testfiles/overflow.htm

as you can see, it works (in ie 6sp1, i didn't bother with anything
else).

chris.

p.s. trim your posts man!! (yes, i am speaking directly to you andrew.)
it seems that you rarely, if ever trim you posts.


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 15:26:00 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEJPEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <3DDE9B39.1050805@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122132442.023e0bc0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 01:09 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>Haven't really used this before as i prefer scrolling :)

         This worked for me, just now:

         (Checked it briefly in IE6 and Moz Nightly.)

<div style="height: 200px; overflow: auto">
         <table style="height: 800px">
                 <tr>
                         <td>
                                 J0.
                         </td>
                 </tr>
         </table>
</div>

-M
--



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 15:28:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0D4@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEKAEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I do trim my posts

and it isn't wotking the text needs to be scrolling from behinf the bottom
table.  So... the layout stays exactly the same ie the bootom table does not
move.  This is to avoid using frames.

Is this a wind up about trimming one minute I am trimming too much the next not
enough and yes ardvak did mention it earlier in the week and that must have been
the first time I poated before trimming:(

Andrew.



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 15:29:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] What would be your perfect Newspaper website?
In-Reply-To: <47DFD42D-FE5E-11D6-BE0B-00306546A128@marsorange.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKAEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

http://www.londontonight.co.uk/index.htm




From nelsons at swosu.edu  Fri Nov 22 15:35:01 2002
From: nelsons at swosu.edu (Stephen Nelson)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [Email] Setting Up Email Server Separate from Share
In-Reply-To: <20021122170406.34E8EC031@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <PGELINCHAMGFDMNDNKHBAEJMCCAA.nelsons@swosu.edu>

Thanks Joel.  I learned something new today.

I did a google search on MX records and found a wealth of information.

Thanks again,
Stephen



From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri Nov 22 15:42:01 2002
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: [SPIDERS] Can Dynamic pages be crawled?
In-Reply-To: <20021122170850.4D34B3A90@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BA03E46D.93E3%cvos@netpaths.net>

Yes, spiders can crawl dynamic sites. However, will they list you in the
SERP's (Search Engine Results Page)?  That depends on how you set your site
up.

Using server technology, create pages that are search engine AND user
friendly.

Instead of page.php?site=business&db=223&this=that

Create pages like /page/business/site
This can be done in apache using mod_rewrite and in IIS using a similar
parameter.



Read more here:
http://www.ask-marketing-experts.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=272


On 11/22/02 9:08 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

> On a site with lots of dynamic content being pulled from the datatbase, can
> these pages be crawled by spiders?
>
> I remember reading about the url itself may cause the problem?
>
> Benjer




Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 15:43:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122132442.023e0bc0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEKBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I don't think I have explained this properly :(

I have a page with the navigation at the bottom of the page within a table.
This is a seperate table and below another table where the main ontent resides.
There is a <td> that will occasionally hold text I am trying to get it so that
the text will not push the bottom table further down the page, rather the text
is behind the bottom table.  So presumably the bottom table needs to be on a
different layer?  Am I thinking in the right direction?

This is to avoid using frames whilst at the same time using a frames effect.

Andrew



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 15:45:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6C@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:31 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames

> and it isn't wotking the text needs to be scrolling from
> behinf the bottom
> table.  So... the layout stays exactly the same ie the bootom
> table does not
> move.  This is to avoid using frames.

i guess i'm not sure what you are trying to do.

are you saying that the page i showed did not have a scrolling div with
a table inside it?

here is what you said in your most recent explanation of your problem (i
believe it was just a copy of your original post.)

---
I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
incase text is more than anticipated and a scoll occurrs I thought I
could make
the navigation a top layer instead of introducing frames.  Should I use
css? Is
it the hidden: I need to use?

Haven't really used this before as i prefer scrolling :)
---

when you say "incase text is more than anticipiated and a scoll occurrs"
are you referring to the body of the page and not the navigation? it
sounds like the navigation from the way you wrote the sentence. but in
this last email that you sent (the one i am replying to) it sounds like
you are referring to the body of the page. are you wanting to do this?

+-----------------------+
|                      S|
|                      c|  <- this part will scroll
|    Content           r|     if the content of the
|                      o|     page is larger than
|                      l|     a specified height.
|                      l|
+-----------------------+
|   Navigation          |  <- this part will not scroll
+-----------------------+     because it is too small
                              and has fixed content,
                              therefore a fixed height

is that what you mean?

if that *is* what you mean, check out this page...

http://www.swatgear.com/testfiles/overflow2.htm


chris.

p.s. i really don't mean to be rude about the whole trimming thing, but
i would still like to point out something. take a look at your second
posting in this thread.


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 15:48:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEKBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEKBEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Actually thinking about this it isn't the table its the <td> Is it?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 21:47
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames


I don't think I have explained this properly :(

I have a page with the navigation at the bottom of the page within a table.
This is a seperate table and below another table where the main ontent resides.
There is a <td> that will occasionally hold text I am trying to get it so that
the text will not push the bottom table further down the page, rather the text
is behind the bottom table.  So presumably the bottom table needs to be on a
different layer?  Am I thinking in the right direction?

This is to avoid using frames whilst at the same time using a frames effect.

Andrew




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Nov 22 15:53:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri Nov 22 15:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEJPEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDEA737.3050908@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> I have a navigation at the bottom of the page and just
> incase text is more than anticipated

What text? The bottom navigation or the stuff above? The URL you
sent didn't clarify much, I'm afraid.

In any case, here's the working* sample of a scrolling TBODY.

   <http://webtuitive.com/samples/table-scroll.html>

*at least in Mozilla :-)

HTH!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 16:08:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 16:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6C@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEKCEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

+-----------------------+
|                      S|
|                      c|  <- this part will scroll
|    Content           r|     if the content of the
|                      o|     page is larger than
|                      l|     a specified height.
|                      l|
+-----------------------+
|   Navigation          |  <- this part will not scroll
+-----------------------+     because it is too small
                              and has fixed content,
                              therefore a fixed height

is that what you mean? this is exactly what i have been trying to say :) with
this url
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php

Andrew



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 16:10:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 16:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <3DDEA737.3050908@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEKDEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

sorry guys I think I am being a trifle stupid here.  I was deluding myself that
the normal scroll would be used and not an addional scroll bar introduced for
this purpose :(

this is the link
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php

Andrew

apologises for not trimmimg just looked at some previous posts and they should
have been trimmed :(

Andrew



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 16:15:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 16:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEJOEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122124843.023e1f50@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122141336.0229bc68@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 01:00 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>http://www.hificollective.co.uk/index.php

         The sentence "This text will need to appear from behind the bottom
nav" doesn't make any sense.

         That sentence means "The bottom nav should be transparent."

         What are you trying to do? It's still unclear.

         -M
--



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 16:20:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 16:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122141336.0229bc68@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEKEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

if you have looked at the link it should be clear that the nav bar should be
sitting along the bottom of the browser 800x600   however when there is text in
the last <td> within the table above it, the bottom table get pushed down, which
one would expect.  So the text needs to be in a layer of some kind so that it
can be scrolled and not effect the bottom table.... make sense?  so if this a
layer thing that I need to think about or a css?

Andrew



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 16:58:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 16:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6D@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 2:24 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames
>
>
> if you have looked at the link it should be clear that the
> nav bar should be
> sitting along the bottom of the browser 800x600   however
> when there is text in
> the last <td> within the table above it, the bottom table get
> pushed down, which
> one would expect.  So the text needs to be in a layer of some
> kind so that it
> can be scrolled and not effect the bottom table.... make
> sense?  so if this a
> layer thing that I need to think about or a css?

ok, i think i get it now. (i think. ;)

try this link...

http://www.swatgear.com/testfiles/overflow2.htm

let me know.

and to max,

he doesn't mean that it should be able to be seen behind the bottom
navigation, but rather that it should appear as if it were coming from
behind it. when in reality it is just an overflowed div inside a <td>.




chris.


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 17:03:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 17:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEKEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122141336.0229bc68@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122145716.00aea1b0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 02:23 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>if you have looked at the link it should be clear that the nav bar should be
>sitting along the bottom of the browser 800x600   however when there is
>text in
>the last <td> within the table above it, the bottom table get pushed down,
>which
>one would expect.

         Okay. I get it now!

         The problem is that you're using tables to do layout.

         The following should work. (Look at it a bit and work out how to
adapt it to your own needs.)

         You'll still need an extra scrollbar, yes.

<table>
         <tr>
                 <td style="height: 600px">
                         <div style="height: 400px; overflow: auto">
                                 <div id="uselessDiv" style="height: 800px">
                                         This is where the body content
would be.
                                 </div>
                         </div>
                         <div style="height: 200px">
                                 This is where the nav bar would be.
                         </div>
                 </td>
         </tr>
</table>

-M
--



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 17:22:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 17:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6D@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEKEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

yep thats the one chris :)  so it is the <td> after all and not the whole
table....

Andrew

try this link...

http://www.swatgear.com/testfiles/overflow2.htm

let me know.

and to max,

he doesn't mean that it should be able to be seen behind the bottom
navigation, but rather that it should appear as if it were coming from
behind it. when in reality it is just an overflowed div inside a <td>.





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 17:31:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Fri Nov 22 17:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122145716.00aea1b0@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEKFEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

the only problem I see with this is the height.  If there isn't any text there
the height is still there!  There may not be any text on some of the pages.

Andrew

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 02:23 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>if you have looked at the link it should be clear that the nav bar should be
>sitting along the bottom of the browser 800x600   however when there is
>text in
>the last <td> within the table above it, the bottom table get pushed down,
>which
>one would expect.

         Okay. I get it now!

         The problem is that you're using tables to do layout.

         The following should work. (Look at it a bit and work out how to
adapt it to your own needs.)

         You'll still need an extra scrollbar, yes.

<table>
         <tr>
                 <td style="height: 600px">
                         <div style="height: 400px; overflow: auto">
                                 <div id="uselessDiv" style="height: 800px">
                                         This is where the body content
would be.
                                 </div>
                         </div>
                         <div style="height: 200px">
                                 This is where the nav bar would be.
                         </div>
                 </td>
         </tr>
</table>

-M
--

-



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 17:41:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 17:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6E@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:34 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] layers not frames
>
>
> the only problem I see with this is the height.  If there
> isn't any text there
> the height is still there!  There may not be any text on some
> of the pages.

i don't think there is anything you can do about it except to hope that
there is some sort of max-height property in css that will work for our
current browsers. (i don't think there is one that will work and frankly
i'm not sure if there is even such an attribute at max-height.)

let's think about it. how would you propose to tell the browser to
scroll-if-the-content-reaches-a-certain-height while at the same time
allow-the-space-to-collapse-if-the-content-is-smaller-than-a-certain-hei
ght? i can't think of any way. that of course doesn't mean there isn't a
solution, just one i can't think of.

what you are probably going to have to do is...

1. throw away the whole idea of a scrolling div/section.
2. decide on the maximum height you can bear to look at and will be
usable for your users and ...
3. not worry about the content box not collapsing when
small/non-existent content is filling the box.


chris.


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 17:47:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 17:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layers not frames
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADE6E@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122154548.02293350@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 03:40 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>i don't think there is anything you can do about it except to hope that
>there is some sort of max-height property in css that will work for our
>current browsers. (i don't think there is one that will work and frankly
>i'm not sure if there is even such an attribute at max-height.)

         There is indeed a max-height, but IE doesn't support it.

         -M
--



From magic32 at jps.net  Fri Nov 22 18:03:01 2002
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <20021122215244.3772D3AC8@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEGGLIAA.magic32@jps.net>

'Volters,

ARE there any serious disavantages to utilizing server side includes??

I have a relatively small (30-ish pages, but growing!) 2-framed site for our
retail store, with a little less then 100 visitors a day.

The main reason for frames was navigation utilization/modification. But for
various reasons, (mainly search engines and bookmarks), I'm redesigning the
site.

I'd like to use SSI for my left navigation, my header, and maybe a footer.
And for the record, SSI *is* enabled, and working fine.

For this situation, are there any serious disadvantages? I *am* doing some
googling, I also just wanted to ask you folks, 'cuz ya seem to know
everything :)

Guess I just want some feedback before I overhaul the whole thing.

As always, TIA!

-Roger Harness



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Nov 22 18:11:00 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E0DA@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Harness [mailto:magic32 at jps.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 4:04 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
>
>
> 'Volters,
>
> ARE there any serious disavantages to utilizing server side includes??
>
> I have a relatively small (30-ish pages, but growing!)
> 2-framed site for our
> retail store, with a little less then 100 visitors a day.

there is no disadvantage great enough to keep you from using them. the
only "disadvantage" i can think of is to make sure you use them
properly. don't nest them. it makes tracking errors and such very
difficult when you start to nest includes. (you can get away with one
nest, but beyond that it starts to get muddled.)

chris.


From scotts at rci-nv.com  Fri Nov 22 18:33:01 2002
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B649ECC7@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Harness [mailto:magic32 at jps.net]
>
> ARE there any serious disavantages to utilizing server side includes??

The only disadvantage might be a slight (very slight - probably measured in
microseconds) processing lag as the server has to go to the trouble of
including the file(s). That lag compounds the more visitors you have, but
your page views would probably have to be in the six or seven digits before
you'd start to notice any kind of a time delay over static pages.

But the advantages are so many, I couldn't even start to list them here. Go
for it, and have fun!

--
Scott Schrantz
work: www.rci-nv.com
play: www.computer-vet.com


From a-m at ctsg.com  Fri Nov 22 18:35:01 2002
From: a-m at ctsg.com (Anne-Marie)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
Message-ID: <AGEEJNPOGPAOAFOBBFOEKEDHDDAA.a-m@ctsg.com>

Why don't you try this, it works in CF, no reason it shouldn't work with
php. Just replace #QueryName.Field# by the php notation and the action by
your file name.

<!--- Delete button --->
	<INPUT TYPE="Button" VALUE="Delete"
		onClick='if(confirm("Are you sure you would like to delete:
#QueryName.Field#?")) {
					this.form.action="file_delete.cfm";
					this.form.submit();}'>

I've got a form with TWO submit buttons - one is edit one is delete.
>Depending on which button is pressed, my php page either gives the
> user an edit form with the variable passed by the form filled in - or
> it simply deletes the item.
>
> Now, of course I want them to confirm the deletion. Here's the
> trouble. I can't use the onClick event handler since its a submit
> button. (Although I tried various ways to make this work, such as
> setting theform.submit = false while passing this.form, which
> failed).

Anne-Marie Feldman
Carol/Trevelyan Strategy Group
Phone: 541-302-3344
http://www.ctsg.com/




From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com  Fri Nov 22 18:37:01 2002
From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML empty elements
Message-ID: <003201c29287$fcdc2000$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com>

I cannot seem to keep my empty elements from displaying in the browser.

Sample of XML code:

	<item>
		<title>IPEX</title>
		<link>http://www.ipex.org</link>
		<booth />
		<date>April 9-17</date>
		<location>National Exhibition Centre</location>
		<city>Birminghan, England</city>
		<state>United Kingdom</state>
	</item>

	<item>
		<title>AFCOM Spring Conference &amp; Expo</title>
		<booth>Booth 546</booth>
		<link>http://www.afcom.com</link>
		<date>April 16-17</date>
		<location>Rio Hotel</location>
		<city>Las Vegas, NV</city>
		<state>USA</state>
	</item>

When I run the script through my XSL stylesheet, it displays a blank line
where "Booth" would display because the element is empty. Is there a way to
detect if the element is empty, and if it is, not to display it?

Any help would be appreciated. FYI - I am an extreme newbie to XML, XSL,
etc..

Thanks,

markJ



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 22 18:45:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw> <17d101c2924d$151ffc30$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds>
Message-ID: <3DDECF5A.8090002@members.evolt.org>

Bev Corwin wrote:
> I doubt if that is true when you look at webhosting on a global level.  It
> may be true for the USA, or certain parts of USA, however, I find that
> difficult to imagine.  The last statistics I saw gave Unix 60%, Windows 40%,
> others 20%.

So 120% total then? ;)

<tip type="Web Style Guide" author="Lachlan">
When you have the time, the style guide for online hypertext at
http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/ is an interesting read.
</tip>
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From howcheng at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 22 18:56:00 2002
From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng)
Date: Fri Nov 22 18:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] XML empty elements
In-Reply-To: <003201c29287$fcdc2000$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021122165339.00abee90@popd.ix.netcom.com>

<xsl:template match="booth"/>
         <xsl:if test="text()!=''"><xsl:value-of select="text()"/></xsl:if>
</xsl:template>

At 04:33 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Mark Joslyn wrote:
>When I run the script through my XSL stylesheet, it displays a blank line
>where "Booth" would display because the element is empty. Is there a way to
>detect if the element is empty, and if it is, not to display it?

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Cheng
http://www.howcheng.com/ <-- NEW!
howcheng at ix dot netcom dot com
AIM: bennyphoebe
ICQ: 47319315



From bev at enso-company.com  Fri Nov 22 19:00:00 2002
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Fri Nov 22 19:00:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw> <17d101c2924d$151ffc30$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds> <3DDECF5A.8090002@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <038c01c2928d$91f87b20$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds>

Yes, I guess you missed my correction post.

It followed this one...

:-)

Bev

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lachlan Cannon" <luminosity at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx


> Bev Corwin wrote:
> > I doubt if that is true when you look at webhosting on a global level.
It
> > may be true for the USA, or certain parts of USA, however, I find that
> > difficult to imagine.  The last statistics I saw gave Unix 60%, Windows
40%,
> > others 20%.
>
> So 120% total then? ;)





From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 22 19:13:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Nov 22 19:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
References: <000501c29251$979fbe30$b9ca0ed0@family5wkvnahw> <17d101c2924d$151ffc30$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds> <3DDECF5A.8090002@members.evolt.org> <038c01c2928d$91f87b20$6401a8c0@beverlyvgh6gds>
Message-ID: <3DDED5F5.7050307@members.evolt.org>

Bev Corwin wrote:
> Yes, I guess you missed my correction post.
>
> It followed this one...

Yep. Got it after I sent mine. :)
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach @ illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From adrian at aussiebidder.com  Fri Nov 22 19:58:01 2002
From: adrian at aussiebidder.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Fri Nov 22 19:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] forged email address
In-Reply-To: <3DDED5F5.7050307@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPCEIIEAAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>

Hi all,

I have been getting bounced emails with me as the from address.  I haven't
sent them so I figured someone was forging my address for Spam purposes.  I
contacted my host and got this reply:
<snip>
It looks like someone is sending out Spam with a forged address at
logo-logic.com. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do to prevent
this; if you can determine who is actually sending the messages, you
could consider legal action, but most likely that will be difficult,
expensive and / or impossible.
</snip>

surely there must be something I can do.  Sooner or later someone is going
to get pissed off with getting Spam from my address and do something.

Can it be stopped.

This is the type of bounce message I'm getting:
<snip>

Return-Path: <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>
Received: (qmail 22787 invoked by uid 50005); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
Received: from admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com by smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net by uid
50002 with qmail-scanner-1.14
 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4233. spamassassin: 2.31.  Clear:SA:1(33.3/5.0):.
 Processed in 18.849653 secs); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=33.3 required=5.0
Received: from unknown (HELO logo-logic.com) ([211.144.107.170])
(envelope-sender <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>)
          by smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <bhope at industrialsoftware.com>; 21 Nov 2002 05:50:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (98.166.3.72)
	by rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com with local; 19 Nov 2002 23:50:25 +0600
Received: from unknown (5.181.218.31)
	by smtp-server1.cflrr.com with esmtp; 20 Nov 2002 05:40:28 +1200
Received: from unknown (195.175.138.181)
	by rly-xr01.nihuyatut.net with esmtp; 20 Nov 2002 17:30:31 +1200
Reply-To: <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>
Message-ID: <017d52d72c1c$5558c2c4$4bc00ba0 at yilxta>
From: <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>
To: <bhope at industrialsoftware.com>,
	<bhopkins at industrialsoftware.com>,
	<bhorne at industrialsoftware.com>,
	<bhoward at industrialsoftware.com>,
	<bhrudd at industrialsoftware.com>
Subject: Married and lonely?
1986RESu1-352o-13
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:49:34 +0100
MiME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C7_53E13D3D.D8262A81"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
Importance: Normal

------=_NextPart_000_00C7_53E13D3D.D8262A81
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
</snip>


there has got to be something I can do.

Thanks

Adrian Fischer



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Fri Nov 22 20:47:00 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri Nov 22 20:47:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] forged email address
In-Reply-To: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPCEIIEAAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
References: <3DDED5F5.7050307@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021122184334.00aeaa58@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 05:59 PM 11/22/2002, you wrote:
>surely there must be something I can do.  Sooner or later someone is going
>to get pissed off with getting Spam from my address and do something.

         What you can do is this:

         1) Contact the ISP of the original "To:" field. (For example, if
somebody is sending emails to AOL with your name, contact postmaster at aol.com)
         2) Have them tell you who sent the original mail. (In fact,
ideally, have them forward the whole mail to you, headers and all.)
         3) In that mail, you will see who originally sent the email.
         4) Contact the ISP of the original sender. The ISP will most
likely terminate their service.

         -Max
--



From dragon-vision at comcast.net  Fri Nov 22 20:52:01 2002
From: dragon-vision at comcast.net (Head Dragon:))
Date: Fri Nov 22 20:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] forged email address
In-Reply-To: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPCEIIEAAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPCEIIEAAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f00ba0499be9564@[68.35.112.212]>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Your ISP can stop this by slosing SMTP connections and seeting
password relogin times much shorter they probably gleamed your
address from a finger on the server.  Almost the entire header was
forged.

You will have to live with this or complain to postmaster at 95877.com.
That will probably not work since they come up in a slimeball report
for spamming and spoofing.

At 11:59 AM +1000 11/23/02, Adrian Fischer wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have been getting bounced emails with me as the from address.  I haven't
>sent them so I figured someone was forging my address for Spam purposes.  I
>contacted my host and got this reply:
><snip>
>It looks like someone is sending out Spam with a forged address at
>logo-logic.com. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do to prevent
>this; if you can determine who is actually sending the messages, you
>could consider legal action, but most likely that will be difficult,
>expensive and / or impossible.
></snip>
>
>surely there must be something I can do.  Sooner or later someone is going
>to get pissed off with getting Spam from my address and do something.
>
>Can it be stopped.
>
>This is the type of bounce message I'm getting:
><snip>
>SpamCop version 1.3.3 (c) Julian Haight, Joel Martin 1998-2002 All
>Rights Reserved
>
>Retrieved email:
>This page may be saved for future reference:
>http://spamcop.net/sc?id=z52675828z63d65afb1af79bffa65a0a10d80a4520z
>
>Return-Path: <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>
>Received: (qmail 22787 invoked by uid 50005); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
>Received: from admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com by smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net by uid
>50002 with qmail-scanner-1.14
>  (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4233. spamassassin: 2.31.  Clear:SA:1(33.3/5.0):.
>  Processed in 18.849653 secs); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
>X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=33.3 required=5.0
>Received: from unknown (HELO logo-logic.com) ([211.144.107.170])
>(envelope-sender <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>)
>           by smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
>           for <x>; 21 Nov 2002 05:50:32 -0000
>Received: from unknown (98.166.3.72)
>         by rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com with local; 19 Nov 2002 23:50:25 +0600
>Received: from unknown (5.181.218.31)
>         by smtp-server1.cflrr.com with esmtp; 20 Nov 2002 05:40:28 +1200
>Received: from unknown (195.175.138.181)
>         by rly-xr01.nihuyatut.net with esmtp; 20 Nov 2002 17:30:31 +1200
>Reply-To: <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>
>Message-ID: <017d______________________0ba0 at yilxta>
>From: <>
>To: <x>,
>         <x>,
>         <x>,
>         <x>,
>         <x>
>Subject: Married and lonely?
>1986RESu1-352o-13
>Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:49:34 +0100
>MiME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>         boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C7_53E13D3D.D8262A81"
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
>Importance: Normal
>
>Skip to Reports
>
>Parsing header:
>
>Received:  (qmail 22787 invoked by uid 50005); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
>no from
>no ip found in received line
>Ignored
>
>Received:  from admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com by smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net
>by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4233.
>spamassassin: 2.31. Clear:SA:1(33.3/5.0):. Processed in 18.849653
>secs); 21 Nov 2002 05:50:51 -0000
>no ip found in received line
>Ignored
>
>Received:  from unknown (HELO logo-logic.com) ([211.144.107.170])
>(envelope-sender <admin3562y64 at logo-logic.com>) by
>smtpl.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <x>; 21 Nov
>2002 05:50:32 -0000
>Possible spammer: 211.144.107.170
>host logo-logic.com (checking ip) ip = 66.33.197.53
>211.144.107.170 is not an MX for logo-logic.com
>ips don't match; logo-logic.com discarded as fake
>Taking name from IP...
>host 211.144.107.170 (getting name) no name
>211.144.107.170 is not an MX for logo-logic.com
>Received line partially untrusted
>
>Received:  from unknown (98.166.3.72) by rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com with
>local; 19 Nov 2002 23:50:25 +0600
>host 211.144.107.170 (getting name) no name
>211.144.107.170 not listed in proxies.relays.monkeys.com
>Possible spammer: 98.166.3.72
>Taking name from IP...
>host 98.166.3.72 (getting name) no name
>    Chain test:rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com =? 211.144.107.170
>    host rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com (checking ip) ip not found ;
>rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com discarded as fake.
>    no MXs for rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com
>    no MXs for mx.aolmd.com
>    host 211.144.107.170 (getting name) no name
>    Chain test failed
>Routing details for 211.144.107.170
>[refresh/show] Cached whois for 211.144.107.170 : webmaster at 95877.com
>webmaster at 95877.com: abuse.net 95877.com = postmaster at 95877.com
>No abuse.net record for 95877.com
>Using default postmaster contacts postmaster at 95877.com
>Whois found postmaster at 95877.com
>Chain error rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com not equal to last sender received
>line discarded
>
>Tracking message source:211.144.107.170:
>Routing details for 211.144.107.170
>[refresh/show] Cached whois for 211.144.107.170 : webmaster at 95877.com
>webmaster at 95877.com: abuse.net 95877.com = postmaster at 95877.com
>No abuse.net record for 95877.com
>Using default postmaster contacts postmaster at 95877.com
>Whois found postmaster at 95877.com
>211.144.107.170 not listed in formmail.relays.monkeys.com
>211.144.107.170 not listed in proxies.relays.monkeys.com
>211.144.107.170 not listed in relays.ordb.org.
>
>Would send message source reports to:
>
>Re:211.144.107.170 (Administrator of network where email originates)
>
>postmaster at 95877.com
>
>e64
></snip>
>
>
>there has got to be something I can do.
>
>Thanks
>
>Adrian Fischer
>
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens Webmaster Dragon Vision Design

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From dragon-vision at comcast.net  Fri Nov 22 23:30:01 2002
From: dragon-vision at comcast.net (Head Dragon:))
Date: Fri Nov 22 23:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] forged email address (typing corr.)
In-Reply-To: <a05200f00ba0499be9564@[68.35.112.212]>
References: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPCEIIEAAA.adrian@aussiebidder.com>
 <a05200f00ba0499be9564@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <a05200f01ba04c21cd1c2@[68.35.112.212]>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
{snip fast typing correction}
Your ISP can stop this by slosing SMTP connections and setting
password relogin times much shorter, they probably gleamed your
address from a finger on the server.  Almost the entire header was
forged.
At 7:39 PM -0700 11/22/02, Head Dragon:) wrote:
>--
>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>Your ISP can stop this by slosing SMTP connections and seeting
>password relogin times much shorter they probably gleamed your
>address from a finger on the server.  Almost the entire header was
>forged.

{/snip}



--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens Webmaster Dragon Vision Design

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From davidu at everydns.net  Sat Nov 23 03:20:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sat Nov 23 03:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript help to make it cross-platform
Message-ID: <001301c292d1$73243c90$2532fc80@pravda>

Hi Evolters,

In my never-ending quest to move things away from the server side tire or
"click, wait, see, click, wait, do" I'm trying to do something nifty with
javascript to display a right side bar frame "help" bar for my users.

Here's the page:
http://dev.everybox.com/frame
in IE this works. In mozilla and chimera on the mac it's broken.

Here is frame's src:
<html>
<head>
<script language="JavaScript1.2">
defaultconf=''
function expandf()
{
    if (document.all) {
        if (document.body.cols!="*,200")
            document.body.cols="*,200"
        else
            document.body.cols=defaultconf
    }
}
</script>
<frameset cols="*,0">
    <frame src="main" name="mainwin" frameborder="no" scrolling="auto"
noresize />
    <frame src="help" name="help" frameborder="no" noresize />
</frameset>
</html>

Here is help's src:
<html>
<head>
<title>Test page</title>
</head>
<script language="JavaScript1.2">
if (document.all)
    window.parent.defaultconf=window.parent.document.body.cols
</script>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffcc">
<div onclick="window.parent.expandf()">[close]</div>
</body>
</html>

Any idea how I can make expandf() more crossplatform?

I'm not javascript user and the using google to diagnose javascript is
"hard" ;-/

thanks,
davidu

--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead





From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Sat Nov 23 03:24:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Sat Nov 23 03:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Ultradev Wildcard Character
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44AA@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <000601c292d1$f4c53420$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

Is there a wildcard character in Dreamweaver that would allow me to a
search based on a patter of characters...

+++++++++++++

Hi

Sorry, I don't think there is.  But it would be so helpful - the amount
of find and replaces that I have to to at the moment, has had me
thinking that this would be an excellent tool in any program.

Oh well....
Regards

F




From ccosta at servidores.net  Sat Nov 23 04:00:01 2002
From: ccosta at servidores.net (Carlos Costa Portela)
Date: Sat Nov 23 04:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Installing PHP with Oracle support
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211231051340.1060-100000@casa.ccp.servidores.net>

	Hello all!

	Firstly, I'll cry a bit. Later, I'll explain my doubt:

	Yesterday I went to a company, since they call me to install PHP
with Oracle support. I configured the Linux box, put the Oracle CD, launch
the installer (./runInstaller) and... no response (not a window open, not
a "wellcome to oracle installer", ... none). I started to look for info in
the net, and the only I could find is that this is a common problem and
there was no a clear solution to it ("be sure that your NumLock led is
off", said one / as a side note: it didn't run ;-)).

	I decided to try to put the Oracle CD in my laptop, run the
Installer and... all perfect!. Obviously, they didn't accept my laptop as
production machine ;-) (and I don't want give my laptop to them!). The
only difference between the laptop and the production machine is:

		- production machine is configured for oracle support
		- production machine is redhat/laptop is debian

	Well, then I explain my doubt: if I need _just_ install PHP with
oracle support (that is, if I only need the client part of oracle), is
mandatory configure the machine with all the steps oracle said? (create
partitions, users/groups, etc.?). Has some of you expertise with this?.

	Thanks in advance,
		Carlos.

       [ http://www.biologia.org/ :: portal especializado en Biolog?a ]
 _______Carlos Costa Portela_________________________________________________
| e-mail:  ccosta at servidores.net | home page: http://casa.ccp.servidores.net |
|_____T?dalas persoas maiores foron nenos antes, pero poucas se lembran______|



From rick at kitty5.com  Sat Nov 23 07:04:01 2002
From: rick at kitty5.com (Rick [Kitty5])
Date: Sat Nov 23 07:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEGGLIAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <00ba01c292f0$8a0ab8c0$0100a8c0@sigma>

Slight performancer hit, although that depends more on your server than
anything else.

Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.co.uk
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA



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From webguru at vsnl.net  Sat Nov 23 07:17:00 2002
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Sat Nov 23 07:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c292f0$8a0ab8c0$0100a8c0@sigma>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEGGLIAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021123184845.02f748d8@203.197.12.4>

At 06:07 PM 23-11-02, Rick [Kitty5] wrote:
>Slight performancer hit, although that depends more on your server than
>anything else.

IMHO, the sheer advantages of SSIs in terms of site maintenance and ease of
use outweigh whatever minuscule performance hit the server may take.
Hardware is cheaper than good people. ;)

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Internet User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net   |   Yahoo messenger: cold_logic

Content * Interfaces * Usability * Net Strategy



From joshua at waetech.com  Sat Nov 23 08:59:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Nov 23 08:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL2k: BULK INSERT not failing but also not creating row
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEGGLIAA.magic32@jps.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20021123184845.02f748d8@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <04e801c29300$c9bd3aa0$0200a8c0@client1>

Hi gang,

On SQL Server 2k I'm using BULK INSERT to import a tab delimited text file
into a table.  After I got the row and column delimiters worked out, the
code didn't error in Query Analyzer but for some reason there are still no
rows in the table.  Any thoughts?  The T-SQL code is as follows:

BULK INSERT image_log_staging
FROM 'e:\workspace\process_images\images.log'
WITH
(
  FIRSTROW = 2,
  ROWTERMINATOR = '\r\n'
)

Pretty cut and dry.  No errors.  But no data either.

Thanks in advance.

-joshua



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Sat Nov 23 09:59:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Sat Nov 23 09:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Opera, JavaScript and the DOM
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021123162425.06d92530@pop3.bip.net>

After doing some tests through my optimisation page, I've found out that
Opera has a severe problem when it comes to letting the DOM work on a page.

The thing is, that the more content there is on the page, the longer each
DOM operation takes. This includes totally unrelated DOM operations, such
as text added to a page through
tablecell.appendChild(document.createTextNode('blah')) slowing down
document.images.

The action is this: b=document.images[a]; (DOM0 & DOM1, does that make some
difference? I'll have to do more testing.)
The action is run 100 000 times.

Before adding any text to the dom:
 > 26999ms

After adding about 4 000 bytes in a total of 36 text nodes:
 > 44574ms

(This difference also appear if you compare a document and that same
document with an additional 4kb content written into it. So it's not using
the dom to add text that is the problem.)


In relation, here's the moz1.2a and ie6win times before and after:
Before:
moz> 2985ms
iew> 2013ms

After:
moz> 2994ms
iew> 2013ms

Note: ie has a variation of about 100ms up and down, moz about 150ms and
opera about 800ms between prime runs.


Just for fun the same 100 000 actions in nn4.79 takes just 971ms (variation
here is just about 30ms). As that browser doesn't have DOM support, though,
it's irrelevant in this case.



In short, on a larger document opera might get slow.

// Liorean



From ray at camdenfamily.com  Sat Nov 23 10:36:01 2002
From: ray at camdenfamily.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Sat Nov 23 10:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
In-Reply-To: <OF5DF7EE32.3A250003-ON85256C78.00503788-85256C78.00518748@customs.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <001001c2930e$d21ff490$6661a8c0@xwing>

I'm a bit biased(*), but I think Mastering ColdFusion MX is a great book
for beginners:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141242/cflib-20/102-9129749-7
756915

(* I'm one of the authors. :)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : ray at camdenfamily.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
> JAMES.A.WILLIAMSON at CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:51 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Newbie Needs CF References
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good beginning
> reference for ColdFusion.
>



From ray at camdenfamily.com  Sat Nov 23 10:37:00 2002
From: ray at camdenfamily.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Sat Nov 23 10:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
In-Reply-To: <001201c2916a$6ceac000$8d79b442@tempschedulingsystem.com>
Message-ID: <001101c2930f$0003b270$6661a8c0@xwing>

Seth, the RC of a empty QofQ should always be 0. If you have a
reproduceable case where it isn't, let me know. As for the original
question, nothing in regards to logic checks was changed in MX, so using
<cfif query.recordCount> should work just fine.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : ray at camdenfamily.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Seth Bienek
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:30 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] ColdFusion MX and CFIF notation
>
>
>
> See below. :)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > > From: Ben Dyer
> > >
> > > In ColdFusion 5, this:
> > >
> > >    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount>
> > >
> > > used to be the equivalent of:
> > >
> > >    <CFIF Whatever.RecordCount GT 0>
> > >
> > > However, in ColdFusion MX, this no longer appears to be
> > > the case.  The exact opposite appears to be true.
> > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> >
> > not in any case i've ever tried.  mx upholds the same
> boolean logic --
> > 0 equals false and any other number (positive or
> > negative) means true.
> >
> > i suspect there is something else going on with your query.
>
> In CF5 (haven't tested on MX), if a query-of-a-query returns
> no records, the recordcount value for the query becomes
> unreliable.  This is not based on anything I've read, but on
> past experience.
>
> Could this be related to the issue you're having?
>
> Seth
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !




From english_offline at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 23 11:01:02 2002
From: english_offline at yahoo.com (Administrative HQ)
Date: Sat Nov 23 11:01:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP MAIL - NON-ENGLISH PLAIN TEXT E-MAILS
Message-ID: <20021123170020.78267.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>

We send automated e-mails to members in various
languages. Letters are written in two programmming
languages (examples below [code 1] and [code 2]).

The questions which are giving us trouble are:

1. How do we make the e-mail appear correctly in
Western European languages, such as Spanish, which use
symbols not included in English ASCII? We are getting
unrecognizable symbols in place of, say, an "a" with
an accent mark.

2. Same question for right to left languages such as
Arabic and Hebrew.

3. RE: right to left languages can we control the
alignment so that paragraphs will read from the right
on the recipient's screen? If so, how? Even if the
text appears correctly, it is aligned the wrong way,
which looks very bad.


----------------------------------------------------
code 1
----------------------------------------------------
mailer.Body="test here"& vbcrlf & vbcrlf &"more text"
& vbcrlf & vbcrlf & "more text" &vbCrLf &_

"www.XYZ.com/cru.asp?p2=y&usrname="&server.URLEncode(rs.Fields("UsrEmail"))&_
		vbcrlf & vbcrlf &"Text"
		mailer.subject="XXXXXXXX"
		'Response.Write rs.Fields("UsrEmail") & "EN" &
"<br>"
-----------------------------------------------------

Code 2
-----------------------------------------------------

objCDO.Subject = "XXXXXXXX"
					objCDO.Body = "text here"&chr(10) &" " & chr(10)
&"more
text"&chr(10)&chr(10)&"text"&usr&chr(10)&"text"&pas&chr(10)
&" " & chr(10)&"text"&chr(10)&"
text."&chr(10)&chr(10)&"text"&chr(10)&chr(10)&"Thank
You"&chr(10)


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From cspruck at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 23 11:35:00 2002
From: cspruck at mindspring.com (Chris Spruck)
Date: Sat Nov 23 11:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Ultradev Wildcard Character
Message-ID: <5962994.1038072885184.JavaMail.nobody@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net>

-------Original Message-------
From: Rob Smith <rob.smith at THERMON.com>
Sent: 11/22/02 03:25 PM

Is there a wildcard character in Dreamweaver that would allow me to a search based on a patter of characters...

-------------------------------------------------

Rob,

I don't have DW/UD in front of me, so I can't pinpoint exact settings or options, but at least the past few versions have had support for regular expressions, which is exactly what you're looking for. Search the help files for more details.

HTH!

Chris


From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Sat Nov 23 11:37:00 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Sat Nov 23 11:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [flash] Grabbing htmlText of a selection
Message-ID: <000101c29316$eab9bd80$d300a8c0@core>

In Flash MX, is it possible to get the htmlText of a textField
selection?

Through the Selection object I can get the plaintext via the
getbegin/EndIndex methods and then substringing the text of the
textfield, however I cant figure out how to get the htmlText of the
current selection?

Cheers in advance.

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com



From steve at netbreed.co.uk  Sat Nov 23 12:44:01 2002
From: steve at netbreed.co.uk (Steve Webster)
Date: Sat Nov 23 12:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [flash] Grabbing htmlText of a selection
References: <000101c29316$eab9bd80$d300a8c0@core>
Message-ID: <3DDFCC60.8060901@netbreed.co.uk>

R.Livsey wrote:
> In Flash MX, is it possible to get the htmlText of a textField
> selection?

Not directly, but what would you gain by doing this? If you are trying
to get the selected text *without* the HTML code (which would be the
logical explanation for trying to do what you are) then you can simply
strip it out afterwards!

Regards,

Steve

--

================================
  Steve Webster
  Freelance Web Developer
  steve at codejunkie.co.uk

  PHP, MySQL, Flash, Perl + more
  http://www.codejunkie.co.uk
================================




From list at deuxtowers.com  Sat Nov 23 16:57:01 2002
From: list at deuxtowers.com (Matthieu Guyonnet-Duluc)
Date: Sat Nov 23 16:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL2k: BULK INSERT not failing but also not creating row
In-Reply-To: <04e801c29300$c9bd3aa0$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <000601c29343$97034120$0400000a@deuxtowers.com>


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] De la part de Joshua Olson
> Envoy? : samedi 23 novembre 2002 15:59
> ? : thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Objet : [thelist] SQL2k: BULK INSERT not failing but also not
> creating row
>
>
> Hi gang,
>
> On SQL Server 2k I'm using BULK INSERT to import a tab
> delimited text file into a table.  After I got the row and
> column delimiters worked out, the code didn't error in Query
> Analyzer but for some reason there are still no rows in the
> table.  Any thoughts?  The T-SQL code is as follows:
>

Hi joshua,

Do you tried to use the import data wizard with text file as data source
? Maybe there's a option that you'll discover and will resolve your
problem.

Matthieu



From jweiss03 at comcast.net  Sat Nov 23 18:10:00 2002
From: jweiss03 at comcast.net (Jeremy Weiss)
Date: Sat Nov 23 18:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Anyone used these hosts
Message-ID: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAECGCEAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>

I'm looking for a new host.  I'm currently with hostway but their support
isn't all that great.  I've found a couple that I like, but I was wondering
if anyone here could give me some good/bad references for them

http://www.nexpoint.net/
http://readyhosting.com/

I'm also open to other suggestions by all means.  All I'm looking for in a
host with ASP, SQL Server 2000, SMTP server, and some good customer support.

Thanks,
Jeremy




From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Sat Nov 23 18:16:01 2002
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Sat Nov 23 18:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Anyone used these hosts
References: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAECGCEAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001d01c2934f$1ffa6c00$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

> I'm also open to other suggestions by all means.  All I'm looking for in a
> host with ASP, SQL Server 2000, SMTP server, and some good customer
support.


http://crystaltech.com

the head lemur
News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/
Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/
Standards: http://webstandards.org
Community: http://www.evolt.org






From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Sat Nov 23 19:36:01 2002
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Sat Nov 23 19:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Anyone used these hosts
In-Reply-To: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAECGCEAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000001c29359$af580970$5a04810a@maegreatha>

http://readyhosting.com/ = BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD!

That being said, they're cheap and work fine so long as nothing is
complicated or goes wrong.

In the 16 months I hosted a few sites there, they lost a full website
(and the tape backups somehow!) to a hack -- the refused to elaborta
further and recommended I restore the site using my "personal backup".
It was a db-driven ASP site, and I hadn't downloaded a new copy of the
db from the server in a few days, so I lost a client lost a few days
worth of customer's orders... Not good.

Their customer support is terrible -- my longest hold time on the phone
was 2 hours, and I had to hang up and go to class before anyone helped
me.

I'd say they're OK if you've got a plain ol' HTML site with nothing more
than a few pages of static data. Anything more complex, and you need to
look elsewhere.

[I've got plenty of frustrations pent up inside me towards ReadyHosting
-- but I'll stop now and spare thelist further. E-mail me offlist for
more...]

I switched my sites over to CrystalTech <http://www.crystaltech.com> a
few months back and haven't had a single complaint or problem... Their
support is 24-hour, which ROCKS, their servers have yet to go down, and
I've never been on hold for more than a few minutes.

HTH!
--ken



From seyon at delime.com  Sat Nov 23 20:00:01 2002
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Sat Nov 23 20:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Anyone used these hosts
In-Reply-To: <000001c29359$af580970$5a04810a@maegreatha>
References: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAECGCEAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20021123215543.00a42ac8@mail.delime.com>

Message from Ken Kogler (11/23/2002 07:34 PM)
>http://readyhosting.com/ = BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD!
>
>That being said, they're cheap and work fine so long as nothing is
>complicated or goes wrong.
>
>Their customer support is terrible -- my longest hold time on the phone
>was 2 hours, and I had to hang up and go to class before anyone helped
>me.

I agree with Ken's assessment here. They (Tech Support) also aren't allowed
to liaise directly with you via email, so instead you have to conduct all
enquiries through a very inefficient web-based system.

regards.
-marc


From pmeeks at msn.com  Sat Nov 23 20:44:01 2002
From: pmeeks at msn.com (Pat Meeks)
Date: Sat Nov 23 20:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Anyone used these hosts
References: <NGBBKBOMELEDKIFPBLFBAECGCEAA.jweiss03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c29363$2ea0a300$0201a8c0@dellp4>

> I'm looking for a new host.  I'm currently with hostway but their support
> isn't all that great.  I've found a couple that I like, but I was
wondering
> if anyone here could give me some good/bad references for them

We've had all positive experiences with www.inetu.com . The tech support
folks have always been great at answering questions and quickly making any
changes we wanted.

Regards, Pat




From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Sat Nov 23 23:30:01 2002
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Sat Nov 23 23:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
In-Reply-To: <AGEEJNPOGPAOAFOBBFOEKEDHDDAA.a-m@ctsg.com>
Message-ID: <1038115769.28619@LISTSERV.alphashop.com>

anne-marie,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Anne-Marie
>
> Why don't you try this, it works in CF, no reason it
> shouldn't work with php. Just replace #QueryName.Field#
> by the php notation and the action by your file name.
>
> <!--- Delete button --->
> 	<INPUT TYPE="Button" VALUE="Delete"
>      onClick='if(confirm("Are you sure you would
>      like to delete: #QueryName.Field#?")) {
>      this.form.action="file_delete.cfm";
>      this.form.submit();}'>
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

no offense, but that's a horrible solution.  just because you can change the
value of the action attribute of the <form> tag doesn't mean you should.
similarly, just because you can submit the form with the submit() method
doesn't mean you should either -- though the former is by far the worst
transgression of the two.  the former makes the delete functionality
completely inaccessible to non-js users.  the latter leads to other
inaccessible behaviors.

there honestly is *no* reason for your solution.  there are plenty of
accessible ways to solve this problem.

do yourself and the users of your applications a favor and give the
following two articles a read.

Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony
http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/

Forms & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony
http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/28553/

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/




From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Sat Nov 23 23:31:01 2002
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Sat Nov 23 23:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript confirm dual submit nastiness
In-Reply-To: <20021122175520.30248.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1038115777.10697@LISTSERV.alphashop.com>

tom,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Tom Dell'Aringa
>
> I've got a form with TWO submit buttons - one is edit
> one is delete.  Depending on which button is pressed,
> my php page either gives the user an edit form with
> the variable passed by the form filled in - or it
> simply deletes the item.
>
> Now, of course I want them to confirm the
> deletion. [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you do know that form buttons have an onclick event handler, right?  and you
do know that an onclick event can be cancelled?  well, you could attach a
function to the onclick event handler for the delete function.

<input type="submit" name="delete"
       onclick="return deleteConfirm(this.form)">

your deleteConfirm() function would set a global variable to true and then

return true to the onclick event handler.

your submit button for the edit wouldn't use the onclick event handler.
instead, it'd use the onsubmit event handler of the form.  there's one
difference between the usual validation function and what you'll need here
though.  at the very top of the function you'll need to check for the
boolean value of the global variable that the deleteConfirm() function sets.
if it's true, return true immediately at the top of your form validation
function.

don't forget to declare your global variable as well with a value of false
so your validate function will validate the form if the delete button hasn't
been clicked.

so, in short, here's the pseudo-script:

<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
  var delete = false;

  function validateForm(oForm)
  {
    if(delete) return true;
    // form validation stuff goes here
    return true;
  }

  function deleteConfirm(oForm)
  {
    delete = true;
    return true;
  }
// -->
</script>

if you have multiple forms on a page then you'll want to do something
alittle more fancy like make the delete variable a property of each form
object instead of a global variable.

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/




From magic32 at jps.net  Sat Nov 23 23:53:01 2002
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Sat Nov 23 23:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: SSI disadvantages? - gracias
In-Reply-To: <20021123181039.4B3D93A7F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCKEGPLIAA.magic32@jps.net>

Quick thanks to everyone's helpful replies to my 'SSI disadvantages'
question. Evidently, the numerous pros *definately* out-weigh any cons in my
situation, so that's the dirt road I'll be traveling!

Again, thanks guys. Awesome group of people here.

-Roger Harness



From seahorse at inreach.com  Sat Nov 23 23:58:01 2002
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Sat Nov 23 23:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI disadvantages?
References: <20021123180553.997A5C027@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c29365$85d4c910$3a12d1d1@dual700>

I used server side includes on a 150 plus page site for the navigation and
banner and other miscl items and it worked really well... It is nice to be
able to change links without having to upload the whole site or go through
every page and the slight slowdown on the server is minimized as once the
navigation is loaded into the cache..you hardly notice this, if at all.

The *only* thing I will say is you will need to stick with the .shtml
ending, even if you abandon the server side includes down the road.  On one
assignment, I ended up creating redirect pages for the old .htm and .html
pages, as I had previously submitted this site and it had been spidered and
indexed pretty well with the major search engines prior to using server side
includes...and you don't want to lose your audience. You can use an .htacess
to make the page look like .html if you are on an Apache server, but dont
know of any other workarounds.

ie. Go for it, but beware of the .html and .shtml endings if it is on an
existing site.

Chris W



> Message: 15
> From: "Roger Harness" <magic32 at jps.net>
> Subject: [thelist] SSI disadvantages?

> ARE there any serious disavantages to utilizing server side includes??
>
> I have a relatively small (30-ish pages, but growing!) 2-framed site for
our
> retail store, with a little less then 100 visitors a day.
>
> The main reason for frames was navigation utilization/modification. But
for
> various reasons, (mainly search engines and bookmarks), I'm redesigning
the
> site.
>
> I'd like to use SSI for my left navigation, my header, and maybe a footer.
> And for the record, SSI *is* enabled, and working fine.

> As always, TIA!
>
> -Roger Harness
>




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sun Nov 24 00:11:02 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sun Nov 24 00:11:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 23-NOV-02
Message-ID: <200211240610.gAO6A2ri007615@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 23-NOV-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Backend: Evaluating a Database (Author: jul_geo)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/18/43193/index.html

An overview of factors to consider when deciding to use database
technology.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Sun Nov 24 01:21:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Sun Nov 24 01:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <001b01c29365$85d4c910$3a12d1d1@dual700>
Message-ID: <2A2638C7-FF7D-11D6-9A72-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Saturday, Nov 23, 2002, at 20:59 US/Central, C Williams wrote:
> The *only* thing I will say is you will need to stick with the .shtml
> ending, even if you abandon the server side includes down the road.

This is not true. There are many paths to take:

	- you can easily later change the files' extension
		and search-&-replace it in your HTML files

	- you can use a URL rewriting module in the Web Server
		(this has been discussed here several times recently)

	- you can set the Web Server's config to process SSI
		for both .html *and* .shtml filename extensions

Mars :)



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Sun Nov 24 03:21:02 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun Nov 24 03:21:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <2A2638C7-FF7D-11D6-9A72-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
References: <001b01c29365$85d4c910$3a12d1d1@dual700>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124011816.00aebb38@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 11:20 PM 11/23/2002, MarsHall wrote:
>On Saturday, Nov 23, 2002, at 20:59 US/Central, C Williams wrote:
>>The *only* thing I will say is you will need to stick with the .shtml
>>ending, even if you abandon the server side includes down the road.
>
>This is not true. There are many paths to take:

         Or even better, don't use extensions at all in your URLs.

         Read about it at http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html#remove

         The whole article is interesting, too.

         -Max
--



From steve at netbreed.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 05:57:01 2002
From: steve at netbreed.co.uk (Steve Webster)
Date: Sun Nov 24 05:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Ultradev Wildcard Character
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E44AA@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <3DE0BE57.8010003@netbreed.co.uk>

Hi Rob,

> Is there a wildcard character in Dreamweaver that would allow me to a search
> based on a patter of characters...

Yes. I didn't know until you asked and I went looking, but Dreamweaver
supports regular expression search and replace operations.

> from:
> <LINK href="productA_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
> <LINK href="productB_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
> <LINK href="productC_files/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
>
> to: (replacing anything between     'href="' and '/display.css' )
> <LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
> <LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>
> <LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>

Using the examples you've given, bring up the Find and Replace... dialog
and tick the Use Regular Expressions checkbox. You then need to enter
the following into the Search For: textbox...

  <LINK href="([a-zA-Z0-9_]*)/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>

...and enter the following in the Replace with: textbox...

  <LINK href="../css/display.css" type=text/css rel=StyleSheet>


Of course, there's a lot of unnecessary stuff in here since most of the
text is being replaced with exactly the same text. So you could cut the
Search for: and Replace with: text to...

  href="([a-zA-Z0-9_]*)/display.css"

...and...

  href="../css/display.css"

...respectively.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Steve

--

================================
  Steve Webster
  Freelance Web Developer
  steve at codejunkie.co.uk

  PHP, MySQL, Flash, Perl + more
  http://www.codejunkie.co.uk
================================




From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 08:44:01 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Sun Nov 24 08:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
Message-ID: <000f01c293c7$c6075720$d300a8c0@core>

Hi, any chance taking a peek at the following:

http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha

It's an alpha of a flash editor I'm working on. Would be interested in
any feedback (bugs etc..) so I can improve it.
Spent all weekend chasing down most of the bugs people had found so
hopefully there aren't too many.

Cheers.

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Nov 24 09:07:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
References: <000f01c293c7$c6075720$d300a8c0@core>
Message-ID: <009401c293ca$952f7f30$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha

freezes for several seconds when loading, and i'm on internet cable

this gave me time to notice that the nav bar on the left has white space to
its right, while the main copy is under the nav bar (windows ie6)

biggest drawback i see is that ctrl-z doesn't work to undo something i've
done, and that would piss me off completely if i had to use this

ctrl-z actually inserts a little rectangle, replacing whatever was
highlighted, and no way to get it back what was highlighted

otherwise, things did seem to work

the proof of the pudding, of course, is what sort of markup it generates,
nicht wahr?


rudy



From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 09:20:01 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
In-Reply-To: <009401c293ca$952f7f30$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <001001c293cc$cc635ab0$d300a8c0@core>

> > http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha
>
> freezes for several seconds when loading, and i'm on internet cable
>
It's about 95k, but the XML file which it uses to grab details for the
image browser is fairly big (another 60k or so).
It currently trys to load the XML at the same time as the main thing
which slows it down, but its something Im looking at and in the final
version it should be a bit snappier.
Plus the overhead of being 2 of them on the same page, something that
wont happen in the CMS.

> this gave me time to notice that the nav bar on the left has
> white space to its right, while the main copy is under the
> nav bar (windows ie6)

Yup - annoying the hell out of me :)
Basically because the flash is too wide for the container div. In Moz it
doesn't look too bad because the flash just breaks out of the div. But
IE6 looks nasty.
Im working on changing the layout so it is fluid, but wont be done for a
while with my current workload.

> biggest drawback i see is that ctrl-z doesn't work to undo
> something i've done, and that would piss me off completely if
> i had to use this
>
> ctrl-z actually inserts a little rectangle, replacing
> whatever was highlighted, and no way to get it back what was
> highlighted
>
Hmm will have a look into that and see if theres any way to deal with
that.

> otherwise, things did seem to work
>
> the proof of the pudding, of course, is what sort of markup
> it generates, nicht wahr?

The output from Flash isn't great (font tags etc), but we have written a
parser to convert it all to valid XHTML for the CMS :)

>
> rudy

Cheers.

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 09:23:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:23:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql query php layout
In-Reply-To: <000f01c293c7$c6075720$d300a8c0@core>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMELEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Guys I maybe getting myself inot an unnecessary muddle here so a little
clarification on this would be nice :)

I want to pull records from MySQL and present the results in a neat two x3
table.  Sometime there will be more than 6 records so a little 'view results
7-12' etc will occur.  Can anyone point me in the right direction so that I can
achieve this please?

It's the table thing that is getting my train of thought all over the place.
it's the rolling effect that is really producing high levels of head scratching

thank you
Andrew



From mark at markgroen.com  Sun Nov 24 09:31:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
In-Reply-To: <000f01c293c7$c6075720$d300a8c0@core>
Message-ID: <3DE08018.7180.26917E@localhost>

On November 24, 2002 at 14:42, R.Livsey wrote:

> Hi, any chance taking a peek at the following:
>
> http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha

The page came up for cache-22 with the side bar and header showing
with the blank space in the middle for I presume the Flash. Got the
usual message asking if I want to run ActiveX controls. Clicked Okay,
then sat and waited. Eventually a warning pop up appeared that said:
"The script running on this page is functioning very slowly and may slow
your computer down to unresponsiveness. Do you still want to keep
running scripts on this page?" Didn't feel like giving my puter the 3
finger salute this am so wasn't able to actually see your editor.

Regards,

	Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mark at markgroen.com
604-780-6917


From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Sun Nov 24 09:40:01 2002
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NT Unix/Lininx
In-Reply-To: <00c801c2924b$98a52f00$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>
Message-ID: <KIECJFDIGJOFCMFKDEKBGEFGDJAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

rudy wrote:

>> told me that far more sites are hosted on NT servers rather than Unix. He

>  http://netcraft.com/survey/
>35 million servers surveyed, and NT is a very distant second

This shows the Platform groupings
http://www.netcraft.com/Survey/Reports/200210/platform.html

NT specific servers: 29.13 (from 29.42 last month).
Apache specific servers: 62.17 (from 61.50 last month).
Roxen specific servers: 0.05 (from 0.05 last month).
Macintosh specific servers: 0.32 (from 0.33 last month).

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty
Mega Products Limited, 10-11 Moor Street, Soho, London W1D 5NF
t: 020 7434 4202 f: 0870 135 8412
http://www.liamdelahunty.com/ web/ design/ database/ programming
http://www.britstream.com/ Hosting/ Domain Names From UKP 7.50 p.a.



From R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 09:42:00 2002
From: R.Livsey at cache-22.co.uk (R.Livsey)
Date: Sun Nov 24 09:42:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
In-Reply-To: <3DE08018.7180.26917E@localhost>
Message-ID: <001101c293cf$f7ec0a30$d300a8c0@core>

> > http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha
>
> The page came up for cache-22 with the side bar and header
> showing with the blank space in the middle for I presume the
> Flash. Got the usual message asking if I want to run ActiveX
> controls. Clicked Okay, then sat and waited. Eventually a
> warning pop up appeared that said: "The script running on
> this page is functioning very slowly and may slow your
> computer down to unresponsiveness. Do you still want to keep
> running scripts on this page?" Didn't feel like giving my
> puter the 3 finger salute this am so wasn't able to actually
> see your editor.
>
> Regards,
>
> 	Mark Groen

Hmm that's interesting. Not seen it do that before.
Will have to look into that.

What browser/os/plugin version are you using?

Cheers.

--
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
[ PHP | Perl | Java | C# ]
w : www.cache-22.co.uk
  / www.incutio.com



From mark at markgroen.com  Sun Nov 24 10:14:00 2002
From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Sun Nov 24 10:14:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
In-Reply-To: <001101c293cf$f7ec0a30$d300a8c0@core>
References: <3DE08018.7180.26917E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DE08A41.497.4E4688@localhost>

On November 24, 2002 at 15:41, R.Livsey wrote:

> > > http://www.cache-22.co.uk/articles/Flash/R.Livsey/FEditor_Alpha

> Hmm that's interesting. Not seen it do that before.
> Will have to look into that.
>
> What browser/os/plugin version are you using?
>
I'm on WIN98 SE, IE 6.0.2800 with SP1, but it's a tiny box running a P3
at 475Mhz and with only 64MB RAM.

Just getting the exact wording of the warning, and it is indeed slowing
down even typing this reply... it is:

"A script in this movie is causing Macromedia FLash Player to run
slowly. If it continues to run, your computer may become unresponsive.
Do you want to abort the script?"

The warning actually comes up twice. I found the editor after reading
rudy's reply then scrolling down past the white/blank area. It seemed to
work fine, no slow down. I haven't tried to run anything like Photoshop in
the background, just Pegasus, and now it seems to be back to it's usual
speed even as I type. Could the warning be caused from the two scripts
loading slowly and not for when they are actually running? Seems to be
okay after loading.

Cheers,

		Mark


From acummins at rogers.com  Sun Nov 24 11:08:01 2002
From: acummins at rogers.com (Anderson Cummins)
Date: Sun Nov 24 11:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql query php layout
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMELEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <007b01c293db$689a51a0$0a01a8c0@ntastor.local>

You can simply find the number of rows returned define a global variable (
results per page) and do the devision to find how many groupings you will
need. I've implemented this and it works rather well.

<?php

$link = mysql_connect("localhost", "mysql_user", "mysql_password");
mysql_select_db("database", $link);

$result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM table1", $link);
$num_rows = mysql_num_rows($result);

echo "$num_rows Rows\n";

?>You could also limit the start point and end point of queries so that you
onlyretrieve the necessary amount of rows:$qry = "select * from table1 limit
$start, $number_per_query";Thanks,Anderson----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:23 AM
Subject: [thelist] sql query php layout


> Guys I maybe getting myself inot an unnecessary muddle here so a little
> clarification on this would be nice :)
>
> I want to pull records from MySQL and present the results in a neat two x3
> table.  Sometime there will be more than 6 records so a little 'view
results
> 7-12' etc will occur.  Can anyone point me in the right direction so that
I can
> achieve this please?
>
> It's the table thing that is getting my train of thought all over the
place.
> it's the rolling effect that is really producing high levels of head
scratching
>
> thank you
> Andrew
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !



From joshua at waetech.com  Sun Nov 24 13:28:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Nov 24 13:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL2k: BULK INSERT not failing but also not creating row
References: <000601c29343$97034120$0400000a@deuxtowers.com>
Message-ID: <055c01c293ef$6335eb20$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthieu Guyonnet-Duluc" <list at deuxtowers.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:56 PM


> Do you tried to use the import data wizard with text file as data source
> ? Maybe there's a option that you'll discover and will resolve your
> problem.

The impor wizard makes a DTS package.  I saved the DTS package as VBScript
and to my dismay the code uses an import object rather than generating SQL
for the actual import.  No help there.

Thanks.

-joshua



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Nov 24 14:31:02 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Nov 24 14:31:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] sql query php layout
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMELEEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003301c293f8$549e2ce0$1b3c6718@r9373j4yqbe8dy>

> it's the rolling effect that is really producing high levels of
> head scratching

they have a cream for that

how do you decide how to lay out the 2 x 3?

there are many ways to do result set paging

let's say your results were in sequence by one column, alphabetically, and
you have more than six, like A, B, D, F, G, K, M, ...

save the highest (6th) value, and use it to format the "next six" link,
perhaps something like <a href="display.php?startafter=K">

one of the reasons i prefer an actual value rather than a row count is what
happens if there's a new row inserted in between the time the first six are
shown, and the time the user clicks the "next six" link

just consider the ramifications if the new insert is below K, versus if it's
after K

now consider the ramifications if it's below K or after K, and you're
returning rows not by value but by row number (an awfully tempting thing to
do when you have mysql's LIMIT option)

see the difference?


rudy



From joel at spinhead.com  Sun Nov 24 14:40:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Sun Nov 24 14:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] unix/apache security - can someone give me a quick refresher?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806ED@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
A few years ago I handled quite a bit of security on apache boxes, but over
the years it's all left my head. I know I can go look it up, but if someone
can remind me off the top of their head, I can spend my precious time before
my deadline doing other things.

All I'm looking for is basic authentication: I have the directory 'foo'
which I only want available to the user 'bar' which already exists on the
server.

Thanks ever so much.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From dru at zetachi.org  Sun Nov 24 14:40:31 2002
From: dru at zetachi.org (Dru and Cindy Sellers)
Date: Sun Nov 24 14:40:31 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] [if..then] How to use the OR operator
Message-ID: <NFBBJAIKALLEJCGMICKIAEMFCDAA.dru@zetachi.org>

Using ASP I have an if...then statement like this

If i = q1 Then Response.Write("Hello")

I would like it to read

If i = q1 OR q2 Then Response.Write("Hello")

However this syntax does not seem to work.

Any ideas guys??

As always, Thank You in Advance!!

dRu
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/02



From webguru at vsnl.net  Sun Nov 24 14:57:01 2002
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Sun Nov 24 14:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] [if..then] How to use the OR operator
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJAIKALLEJCGMICKIAEMFCDAA.dru@zetachi.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125022747.01bd2068@203.197.12.4>

At 02:08 AM 25-11-02, Dru and Cindy Sellers wrote:
>If i = q1 OR q2 Then Response.Write("Hello")
>
>However this syntax does not seem to work.

That's because your code is actually getting parsed right to left, and so
"q1 or q2" is evaluated first, which of course is not equal to i.

What you want is this:

If (i=q1) OR (i=q2) Then Response.Write("Hello")


That forces the comparison first.

(I *think* that's what you want anyway.)

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Internet User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net   |   Yahoo messenger: cold_logic

Content * Interfaces * Usability * Net Strategy



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Sun Nov 24 14:58:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Sun Nov 24 14:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124011816.00aebb38@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <3E991A00-FFEF-11D6-B602-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Sunday, Nov 24, 2002, at 03:20 US/Central, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:
> Or even better, don't use extensions at all in your URLs.
> Read about it at http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html#remove

Oooh! Nice idea Max.

Some quick tinkering with my .htaccess file revealed that adding this:

	Options +MultiViews

...made accessing files on my Virtual Server without extensions in
their URLs work flawlessly. (as far as I can tell)

See:
	http://marsorange.com/photo/ss2002
	http://marsorange.com/photo/ss2002.html

...now both get the same document!

That's cool.

Mars :)



From aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca  Sun Nov 24 15:36:01 2002
From: aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca (Aleem Bawany)
Date: Sun Nov 24 15:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] hypothetically speaking ...
In-Reply-To: <E2B2AF04-FDE3-11D6-98A7-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
Message-ID: <000001c293ad$b100f350$0a00a8c0@Aleem>

> I know that Blogger has a bookmarklet (
> http://www.blogger.com/howto/blogthis.pyra ) that works by popping a
> window with a text field whose contents can be submitted on-the-spot
to
> your blog. The text field is pre-populated with the current documents
> name and URL and *I think* current selection too.
>
> That might lead you in the right direction!
>

groovy!



From aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca  Sun Nov 24 15:47:00 2002
From: aleem.bawany at utoronto.ca (Aleem Bawany)
Date: Sun Nov 24 15:47:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
In-Reply-To: <3DE08018.7180.26917E@localhost>
Message-ID: <000101c293af$2fbeaba0$0a00a8c0@Aleem>

> The page came up for cache-22 with the side bar and header showing
> with the blank space in the middle for I presume the Flash. Got the
> usual message asking if I want to run ActiveX controls. Clicked Okay,
> then sat and waited. Eventually a warning pop up appeared that said:
> "The script running on this page is functioning very slowly and may
slow
> your computer down to unresponsiveness. Do you still want to keep
> running scripts on this page?" Didn't feel like giving my puter the 3
> finger salute this am so wasn't able to actually see your editor.
>
>


same here on winXP, flash6, IE6



From ken.kogler at curf.edu  Sun Nov 24 16:29:00 2002
From: ken.kogler at curf.edu (Ken Kogler)
Date: Sun Nov 24 16:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] [if..then] How to use the OR operator
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJAIKALLEJCGMICKIAEMFCDAA.dru@zetachi.org>
Message-ID: <000001c29408$aabac010$5a04810a@maegreatha>

> I would like it to read
> If i = q1 OR q2 Then Response.Write("Hello")
> However this syntax does not seem to work.

You need a full equation for each condition, so it would look like this:

if i = q1 or i = q2 then response.write("Hello")

HTH!
--Ken



From imejr at ime.usp.br  Sun Nov 24 17:15:01 2002
From: imejr at ime.usp.br (Empresa Junior IMEjr-USP)
Date: Sun Nov 24 17:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Problems with scrollbar in Netscape
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211242044380.25921-100000@mafalda>

We are a Junior Enterprise, and we are having some trouble with our new
site, that we?ve just designed. The JavaScript scrollbar doesn?t show up
in Netscape, and the text, that should be on the right of the page, comes
to the left, and is showed over the images that are on the left. We think
that this must be a recurrent problem, but it?s the first time we face
it.
We used Dreamweaver to compose this page. An example can be seen at
http://www.ime.usp.br/~imejr/oqueeeoquefaz.htm.
Does anyone knows how to fix it?
Thank you very much.
Ime Junior



From evolt at MARSorange.com  Sun Nov 24 17:32:00 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Sun Nov 24 17:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] unix/apache security - can someone give me a quick refresher?
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806ED@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <D9A4B258-0004-11D7-AD3A-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Sunday, Nov 24, 2002, at 14:29 US/Central, Joel Canfield wrote:
> All I'm looking for is basic authentication: I have the directory 'foo'
> which I only want available to the user 'bar' which already exists on
> the
> server.

This explains it:
	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/auth.html

Of course, certain parameters of the Authentication set-up can vary
from system-to-system, so check with your host's support docs or
httpd.conf file.

Mars :)



From paul at teltest.com  Sun Nov 24 17:42:01 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Sun Nov 24 17:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] running scripts via command line
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKAEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE1640E.1060508@teltest.com>

I have been running PHP locally for a while now but have come across the
need to debug WAP application code. Unfortunately wap devices do not
output php's nice informative error messages, and will just give an
"unrecognised content" error if a function or query goes awry. This
makes it somewhat challenging to debug, especially with function calls
to functions within includes etc...Can I get php scripts running via the
command line and outputting into the dos window? This would make it very
easy to see errors, bent code etc.
Thanks in advance all you lovely people :p

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From paul at teltest.com  Sun Nov 24 17:42:14 2002
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Sun Nov 24 17:42:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] [php] csripts via command line
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKAEEAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE1643E.6090608@teltest.com>

Oops. That was on Win 2000 (sp1) by the way...

--
Paul Bennett
Internet Developer
Teltest Electronic Design
--------------------------
Phone : 64 4 237 0767
Web : http://www.teltest.com
Wap : http://wap.teltest.com
Email : paul at teltest.com
--------------------------





From evolt at MARSorange.com  Sun Nov 24 17:46:01 2002
From: evolt at MARSorange.com (MarsHall)
Date: Sun Nov 24 17:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver/Ultradev Wildcard Character
In-Reply-To: <3DE0BE57.8010003@netbreed.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8CFCF4C-0006-11D7-AD3A-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>

On Sunday, Nov 24, 2002, at 05:56 US/Central, Steve Webster wrote:
> Dreamweaver supports regular expression [RegEx] search and replace
> operations.


A really nice primer on RegEx:
	http://evolt.org/article/Regular_Expression_Basics/20/22700/

Mars



From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Nov 24 18:02:00 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Help with DHTML or Javascript
Message-ID: <001501c29415$c04a3cf0$2532fc80@pravda>

Hi Evolters,

I've been playing with javascript and stuff this weekend and I'm still
pretty novice with most of this stuff.

I'm able to make a div hide and appear at the click of a link but it just
shows up "on top" of everything else.

Is there a way to show something (a div) that was previously hidden but that
when shown will kind of reshuffle stuff around it on the page so that
anything under it will be pushed lower on the page?

Does that make sense?  Basically I'm trying to create a cool help system for
the people who use my DNS service and so if anyone wants to offer a bit of
time to chat and give me some ideas on how to best do it, I'd appreciate it.
I tried going in the evolt IRC channel but it was pretty quiet. (except for
a friendly bot. :-)

My AOL IM name: everydns if someone wants to chat.

thanks,
David U.


--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 24 18:17:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Help with DHTML or Javascript
In-Reply-To: <001501c29415$c04a3cf0$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <20021125001630.15297.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "David U." <davidu at everydns.net> wrote:

> Is there a way to show something (a div) that was previously hidden
> but that
> when shown will kind of reshuffle stuff around it on the page so
> that
> anything under it will be pushed lower on the page?

David,

What you want is to use the display rule. Starting out something
hidden would be:

.hiddenClass
{
display: none;
}

Using your script, setting this object to display: block; will bring
it back into the flow of the page *right where it is in the code*. So
like you say it will shift things about.

I imagine you are currently using a absolutely positioned div and
using visibility, which is not what you want. Don't set a position
for it, and use the display property. You can email me offline for
more help if you wish.

HTH

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Sun Nov 24 18:24:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: SSI disadvantages?
In-Reply-To: <3E991A00-FFEF-11D6-B602-0030654FFFEC@MARSorange.com>
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124011816.00aebb38@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124162237.00aee078@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 12:56 PM 11/24/2002, you wrote:
>On Sunday, Nov 24, 2002, at 03:20 US/Central, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:
>>Or even better, don't use extensions at all in your URLs.
>>Read about it at http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html#remove
>
>Oooh! Nice idea Max.

         Thanks! :-)

         As always, another fine idea from Tim Berners-Lee. :-) (You'll
notice that he wrote that document.)

         -Max
--



From maxka at cats.ucsc.edu  Sun Nov 24 18:29:01 2002
From: maxka at cats.ucsc.edu (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Help with DHTML or Javascript
In-Reply-To: <001501c29415$c04a3cf0$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124162643.00aedf30@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
At 04:01 PM 11/24/2002, you wrote:
>Is there a way to show something (a div) that was previously hidden but that
>when shown will kind of reshuffle stuff around it on the page so that
>anything under it will be pushed lower on the page?

Ah, that one's too easy!

http://www.evolt.org/article//17/45831/index.html

Just from the other day, too. :-) I was going to use it in my page, so it
was still on my mind.

-M
--



From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Nov 24 18:47:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Help with DHTML or Javascript
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021124162643.00aedf30@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <000f01c2941c$233ed270$2532fc80@pravda>

Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:

>> Is there a way to show something (a div) that was previously hidden
>> but that when shown will kind of reshuffle stuff around it on the
>> page so that anything under it will be pushed lower on the page?
>
> Ah, that one's too easy!
>
> http://www.evolt.org/article//17/45831/index.html

Wow: http://www.onlinetools.org/tools/domcollapsedata/

So cool!

Thanks Max.

This will look a lot better than what I had with frames and hidden div's.

Thanks to Tom too for his post.

-davidu



From seahorse at inreach.com  Sun Nov 24 18:49:01 2002
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Sun Nov 24 18:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2774 - 24 msgs
References: <20021124181008.5F5FF3A91@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <002101c2941c$199622a0$0e12d1d1@dual700>

>On Saturday, Nov 23, 2002, at 20:59 US/Central, C Williams wrote:
>>The *only* thing I will say is you will need to stick with the .shtml
>>ending, even if you abandon the server side includes down the road.

>MarsHall wrote:
>This is not true. >

...true?  huh? how are you going to get the search engines to find your page
if you change the extension and remove the old page?  This person is working
on an existing site. You have succeded in incorrectly quoting me and you
have manipulated my message.

>here are many paths to take:
         Or even better, don't use extensions at all in your URLs.
         Read about it at http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html#remove
         The whole article is interesting, too.
         -Max.>

Unless you use a redirect as I suggested (which you snipped from your
comment and needed to be left intact) the existing link will not display the
existing
page after a user searches and finds the page with Goggle, etc.  If  u are
designing for other people, you should consider how their audience will look
at the site.

If they are like the average Joe, then they may go to sites
via bookmarks and if your site has no redirects and you did not use the same
extension they will not see your new page. Is the user going to sit there
and try different extensions to figure out if there is a page?  not using
extensions at all?

So you are going to leave the existing users in the dark
with no redirects? I don't think its a good idea to force users to cut stuff
after the .com or .org etc...to find your page.

Just my suggestion based on my experience.














From joel at spinhead.com  Sun Nov 24 19:00:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Sun Nov 24 19:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] unix/apache security - can someone give me a quick 
	refresher?
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC4806EE@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > All I'm looking for is basic authentication: I have the directory
> > 'foo' which I only want available to the user 'bar' which already
> > exists on the server.
>
> This explains it:
> 	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/auth.html

Not especially helpful. I understand the *concepts* (I did mention I've done
this in the past) and just needed a quick reminder of the syntax and file
placement for .htaccess and .htpasswd (the one I couldn't remember) No
syntax or step-by-step anything at that linkage; just conceptual info.

I re-figured it out from the Webmonkey tutorial at
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/html/97/08/index2a.html

joel


From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Sun Nov 24 19:52:00 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russell Unger)
Date: Sun Nov 24 19:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Outlook 2002 Dying Horribly
Message-ID: <200211242051.AA475660476@unrealisticexpectations.com>

My Outlook 2002 is dying horribly, nearly crippling me right now.  I'm assuming that my .pst file is too large--nearly 2 gb, which is right about where a ceiling is.

I've taken and split my folders into several .pst files, but the outlook.pst doesn't seem to get much smaller.  Running repair doesn't seem to help much either.

I can open Outlook, but if I try and do ANYTHING it basically stops responding and I have to kill it, start again, and the same thing happens.

I'm running XP Pro, I've installed all SPs, etc.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,

Russ


From lists at ehummel.net  Sun Nov 24 20:26:01 2002
From: lists at ehummel.net (Erik)
Date: Sun Nov 24 20:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Outlook 2002 Dying Horribly
In-Reply-To: <200211242051.AA475660476@unrealisticexpectations.com>
Message-ID: <000501c29429$f3e13d70$0400a8c0@laptophum>

Russ:
You probably have tried this, but since you did not mention it...

Did you try to compact the new folders you created, (or compact your
original after you split it up)?

Erik

-----Original Message-----
 I've taken and split my folders into several .pst files, but the
outlook.pst doesn't seem to get much smaller.  Running repair doesn't
seem to help much either.

I can open Outlook, but if I try and do ANYTHING it basically stops
responding and I have to kill it, start again, and the same thing
happens.






From russ at unrealisticexpectations.com  Sun Nov 24 20:56:01 2002
From: russ at unrealisticexpectations.com (Russell Unger)
Date: Sun Nov 24 20:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Outlook 2002 Dying Horribly
Message-ID: <200211242156.AA1391001920@unrealisticexpectations.com>

>You probably have tried this, but since you did not mention it...
>
>Did you try to compact the new folders you created, (or compact your
>original after you split it up)?

More than a few times.  Still dying.


From evolt at funkwit.com  Sun Nov 24 21:16:00 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Sun Nov 24 21:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Outlook 2002 Dying Horribly
References: <200211242156.AA1391001920@unrealisticexpectations.com>
Message-ID: <04df01c2942f$85bfd2b0$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Russell Unger wrote:
> More than a few times.  Still dying.

Try this page:
http://www.slipstick.com/problems/repair2gbpst.htm

There's some links and utilities here that might help.

Cheers,

Paul.



From prosayist at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 24 22:16:01 2002
From: prosayist at yahoo.com (Dan Stockton)
Date: Sun Nov 24 22:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash WYSIWYG editor test
Message-ID: <20021125041504.90799.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com>

same as "Mark Groen":

A script in this movie is causing Macromedia Flash Player 6 to run slowly.
If it continues to run, your computer may become unresponsive. Do you want
to abort the script?
                                 [ Yes ][ No ]

W98SE/IE5.50.4807.2300/400MHz/256k RAM

overall, I didn't wanna wait for it to load stuff, prob'ly you'll get better
results after you squash this 'bug'

HTHisw
-Dan

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