Sometimes the "dhtml stuff" as you call it, can be useful. Like most things out there, it is not the tool, but the application of it that makes all the difference. There are a lot of sites out there that have benefited in one way or another from careful application of these scripts. However, I must conceed, that the fading menu is a bit over the top :-) how about simply removing it? I think i speak for most people here when I say i hate dhtml stuff.