The drawback with Cloudmark is overzealous and/or clueless users who mark things they signed up for as spam. And then, unless the sending company has some kind of prior agreement with Cloudmark, all the other recipients will find the newsletters etc, disappearing into their spam folders. I don't want to put the system down. Nor do I want to dump on Bayesian Filters (I use a spam assassin port running on my mailserver, and it nabs >3,000 messages a day, which is fantastic). The problem is that none of these solutions: a) addresses the reason why we have so much spam b) is really a long-run solution. Instead, it's more like a never ending battle, a "cold war" arms buildup between the spammers, and the anti-spam crowd. Given the various underhand tactics now being ascribed to spammers (or hackers/crackers associated with spammers), the battle is going to become a lot more nasty soon, and the anti-spam crowd might start being on the losing side. Personally, I think there needs to be a more fundamental reform of the messaging infrastructure that fixes the spam problem. All these other things are good, and should be used as additional layers of defense, but they're really bandaids. If you look at all the really robust authentication protocols out there (like Kerberos), you don't need these bandaids. They're simple, and they work. Cheers Ken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "Adrian Gonzales" <adrian at clearspanmedia.com> Subject: RE: [thelist] Serious antispam measures : I don't believe that this has been discussed, but CloudMark has an : awesome spam blocking system. It works on a peer to peer kinda network : where everyone's clients report back to the sever with spam headers and : then is disseminated through the network so it starts blocking everyone : elses. In my experience with them they blocked almost every piece of : spam. : : They have a sever version and a plug-in for Outlook. The personal : version is a really cheap subscription based service, I'm not sure about : the pricing on the server version though. : : You can see more here: http://www.cloudmark.com/ : They've even got a 30 trial. : : Adrian Gonzales Jr.