What time is it?

s and s with class and id attributes. Steve On May 9, 2004, at 7:07 PM, Bob Easton wrote: > Hershel Robinson wrote: >> I am under the impression ( >> http://www.quirksmode.org/about/quirksmode.html ) that custom >> attributes >> will not validate according to the W3C. Can anyone confirm this and >> provide >> a clear reference from the W3C itself as the veracity of this? >> Thanks, >> Hershel > Validation is a comparison of actual code with the code described in a > Data Type Definition, DTD, the second part of the !DOCTYPE statement. > There are a limited number of standard DTDs. If you have a custom > attribute, that means it is not in any DTD. Hence, the custom > attribute won't validate. From italPASTA at takas.lt Mon May 10 09:10:30 2004 From: italPASTA at takas.lt (italPASTA) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:10:30 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Css font In-Reply-To: <003501c43535$5d1df640$6400a8c0@AmyXP> References: <1083851472.2618.45.camel@nofx> <409AA916.2010203@uklinux.net><017CB926-A04E-11D8-B7B6-000A957FB6EA@striderweb.com> <409D17A5.60108@uklinux.net> <003501c43535$5d1df640$6400a8c0@AmyXP> Message-ID: <1018541170.20040510171030@takas.lt> Firstly you shouldn't use points as they are absolute units mostly used for printed stuff. Actually there's some great material in http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/index.html about text-sizing. Finally, to set the font size on whole html u should write something like this: body { font-size: 12pt; } -- Regards, italPASTA Saturday, May 8, 2004, 10:47:57 PM, you wrote: > Hello All, > I have stumbled across what I view as a very unique problem. Perhaps the > list may have some other views and I hope to hear what they are. I have > designed a site where I specify in a style sheet: > .bodytext { > font-family: Georgia, serif; > font-size: 12pt; > color: #333333; > } > My client has heard from a customer who is having problems viewing any font > at all on the site. He sent a screen shot from his computer. I really hope > that some of you can share your thoughts on what the problem is here. > I have attached a cropped jpg of what this user sees on his computer. Again, > I would strongly appreciate any feedback. > Amy From rob.smith at THERMON.com Mon May 10 09:07:07 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:07:07 -0500 Subject: [thelist] IIS Troubles - Authenticated User ... Who? Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7C9F2@smtmb.tmc.local> Hi, We have an Intranet here that uses Windows NT/CR to authenticate users. It's all set up and working fine for the home page and all the files located in the "/" root directory. However when I have a page (.asp) located in a sub folder "/docs/page.asp," the server has no clue who the Authenticated user is anymore. For example, John Doe is logging in to our Intranet "/somepage.asp" Authenticated user = "domain/Jdoe" "/folder/apage.asp" Authenticated user = I'm using request.servervariables("AUTH_USER") to get this information. Is there anything I'm missing in IIS (4) that would cause this to happen? Rob.Smith From david.landy at somerfield.co.uk Mon May 10 10:29:05 2004 From: david.landy at somerfield.co.uk (david.landy at somerfield.co.uk) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:29:05 -0000 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? Message-ID: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text will show only when you hold the mouse over the image... David -- If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please preserve the confidentiality of it and advise the sender immediately of any error in transmission. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken, or omitted to be taken, by an unauthorised recipient in reliance upon the contents of this e-mail is prohibited. Somerfield cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses so please carry out your own virus checks before opening an attachment. In replying to this e-mail you are granting the right for that reply to be forwarded to any other individual within the business and also to be read by others. Any views expressed by an individual within this message do not necessarily reflect the views of Somerfield. Somerfield reserves the right to intercept, monitor and record communications for lawful business purposes. From rob.smith at THERMON.com Mon May 10 09:28:06 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:28:06 -0500 Subject: [thelist] IIS Troubles - Authenticated User ... Who? {solved} Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7C9F4@smtmb.tmc.local> Is there anything I'm missing in IIS (4) that would cause this to happen? Yes. I found that Anonymous User was selected for that folder, which cleared the "AUTH_USER" field on the server. I unchecked the box and as is well. Rob From ron.luther at hp.com Mon May 10 09:37:26 2004 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:37:26 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Win ME A/V? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B082@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Gang, I need to lend a hand locking down a friend's Win "ME" machine this week. Can you give me a clue on the current 'best and brightest' to load onto that box? * Sygate Personal Firewall? * ZoneAlarm? * Ad-aware * Spybot - Search and Destroy? Yep. I know it's 'off topic' so I owe a tip ... Saw a cute trick recently. (Makes more sense in the context of gui based report writer graphics than a 'hand rolled' system, but here it is anyway.) You can 'spotlight' color a basic bar chart! Here's the trick: Create a 3D bar chart with, perhaps 3 computed variables; Sales Met - computed as 'if (actual > projected, actual, else 0)' Color it green. Sales Close - computed as 'if ((actual < projected) and (actual > .9 * projected), actual, else 0)' Color it yellow. Sales Not Met - computed as 'if (actual < (.9 * projected), actual, else 0)' Color it red. Now 'collapse' the chart into 2D (by changing the viewing angle if needed). This will 'stack' the bars on top of each other. All the user will see is a bar chart of actual sales by sales district, colored green, yellow, or red. [Those 'else zero's effectively "hide" the bars you don't want to see ... kind of like changing z-index in a tool that doesn't offer a control to let you change z-index.] Pretty neat idea! Thanks! Ron From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Mon May 10 09:45:14 2004 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:45:14 +0100 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: > What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text > will > show only when you hold the mouse over the image... You could add the caption to the image, using a graphics tool? ;o) here's some discussion on the best way to keep a text caption with an image using html/CSS: http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/01/02/simplequiz_part_xi_image_floating.html hth Tony From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Mon May 10 09:45:14 2004 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:45:14 +0100 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: > What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text > will > show only when you hold the mouse over the image... You could add the caption to the image, using a graphics tool? ;o) here's some discussion on the best way to keep a text caption with an image using html/CSS: http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/01/02/simplequiz_part_xi_image_floating.html hth Tony From evolt at david.us-lot.org Mon May 10 09:49:59 2004 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:49:59 +0100 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: <4F7DBC07-A291-11D8-9B34-000A957E4F00@david.us-lot.org> On 10 May 2004, at 16:29, david.landy at somerfield.co.uk wrote: > What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text > will > show only when you hold the mouse over the image... No, alt text will show only if you happen to be using a browser which will show the alternative representation of the image when you point at it. There is no requirement for browsers to do this and many people consider it a bug. There are a number of options open to you depending on how far you want to go. You could place a paragraph of text after the image, you use use JavaScript to extract data from the title attribute, you could alter the image itself to include the caption. You could leave the text after the image, or you could use CSS to position it on top of the image. There are quite a few options, and 'best' depends on how well it needs to be supported, how important the text is, and the usual vagaries of such a subjective term. -- David Dorward From rob.smith at THERMON.com Mon May 10 09:49:25 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:49:25 -0500 Subject: [thelist] IIS Troubles - Authenticated User ... Who? {solved} Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7C9F6@smtmb.tmc.local> I need to rewrite this or clarify. I found that Anonymous User was selected for that folder in directory security, which cleared the "AUTH_USER" field on the server. I unchecked the box, and checked Windows NT/CR like the root folder. Thanks for reading, Rob -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Mon May 10 09:50:02 2004 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:50:02 +0100 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: > What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text > will > show only when you hold the mouse over the image... This also works (in some browsers):

image caption

but will get you hung by the purists! ;o) From stowaway at uklinux.net Mon May 10 10:02:51 2004 From: stowaway at uklinux.net (joe) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:02:51 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Displaying scientific and mathematical notation In-Reply-To: References: <1083851472.2618.45.camel@nofx> <409AA916.2010203@uklinux.net> <409C15A6.9020202@sam-i-am.com> Message-ID: <409F999B.5040302@uklinux.net> Hi Stephen Didn't know about the Mozilla support for MathML - that's excellent news. The site is actually something I'm going to do partly for my own joy and partly as a demonstration. In my other existence I'm a lecturer and like Diane in another post am appalled by the standard of interactive learning resources out there. The idea is to put a lot of resources into open standard format like xml and cousins, and provide a number of interfaces to it to suit the user. Probably a relational database at the back end, and data requests will be processed by an application layer which generates the xml. The generated xml files will be accessible by HTTP for anyone wishing to put them to their own use. There will also be a front end which allows a user to choose how they want their data - rendered to html, or an interactive Flash/Shockwave based interface. Hence the application layer will be split into two - one to determine what kind of user agent wants the data and send appropriate info back, and one to interact with the db. Once the show is one the road, I might even open parts of it up as a wiki. The situation, therefore, is that I want to build it for an unlimited audience... the philosophy being that the internet should be a place where anyone can access any knowledge they want in the format of their choosing. Some provisos being that if you want, for example, an interactive stochastic model of factors determining amospheric conditions, something like Flash or Shockwave wins hands down over HTML (just to stick my oar into someone else's thread for the hell of it :) ) joe Stephen Rider wrote: > MathML does seem to work on Mozilla/Firefox/etc., so as you are > targeting a rather specialized audience anyway, you might have the > option of instructing them to use a Mozilla-based browser for the > purposes of this site. > > Depends on the situation, of course. > > Steve > > On May 7, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Sam-I-Am wrote: > >>> I'm hoping to find a variation on xml (MathML?) for the data, but >>> still not sure exactly how to present it to a browser... >> >> >> We had to look into this for a project recently. MathML is all ready >> for you, but the browser support for it is not. >> Basically you'll need to make gifs... >> >> Unless anyone has any other suggestions? > > From evolt at pixelwright.com Mon May 10 10:00:49 2004 From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:00:49 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C References: <008501c435f5$2c74faa0$0300000a@hershel2000><409EC7C5.8020809@eleaston.com> <18D53FA4-A28B-11D8-B4BC-000A957FB6EA@striderweb.com> Message-ID: <004701c4369f$95726a60$2961398a@newcos.com> Stephen Rider wrote: > This, of course, means that you /could/ in theory create your own > custom DTD that includes your custom tags. It seems it would be a lot > of work, however, unless you have a very specific reason to need to do > this. Browsers, of course, would not support your custom tags. However, the original question involved the use of custom _attributes_, not tags (or elements). Internet Explorer since version 4 has supported custom attributes under the moniker "expando properties" [1]. Using expando properties on the Internet would probably not be advisable, of course, but within the context of an Intranet they can be quite useful. 1. http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/expando.asp James Aylard From italPASTA at takas.lt Mon May 10 10:10:26 2004 From: italPASTA at takas.lt (italPASTA) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:10:26 +0300 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: <632910636.20040510181026@takas.lt> for me this seems the best choice:

: Description goes here

It represents teh relationships between the img and the caption. I took it from http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/01/02/simplequiz_part_xi_image_floating.html -- Regards, italPASTA Monday, May 10, 2004, 5:50:02 PM, you wrote: > At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: >> What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text >> will >> show only when you hold the mouse over the image... > This also works (in some browsers): >

> image caption >

> but will get you hung by the purists! > ;o) From italPASTA at takas.lt Mon May 10 10:15:48 2004 From: italPASTA at takas.lt (italPASTA) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:15:48 +0300 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: <1553810873.20040510181548@takas.lt> It seems that W3C are taking care of this matter. ;) http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/figures.html#XHTML -- Regards, italPASTA Monday, May 10, 2004, 5:50:02 PM, you wrote: > At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: >> What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text >> will >> show only when you hold the mouse over the image... > This also works (in some browsers): >

> image caption >

> but will get you hung by the purists! > ;o) From manuel at simplelogica.net Mon May 10 10:17:42 2004 From: manuel at simplelogica.net (Manuel =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gonz=E1lez?= Noriega) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:17:42 +0200 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717135@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: <1084202262.2525.4.camel@cmr-212-89-30-105.telecable.es> El lun, 10-05-2004 a las 16:50, Tony Crockford escribi?: > At 16:29 on Monday, 10 May 2004, wrote: > > > What is the best way to put a permanent caption on an image? ALT text > > will > > show only when you hold the mouse over the image... > This is an option (JS required) http://www.1976design.com/blog/archive/2003/11/25/captions/ > This also works (in some browsers): > >

> image caption >

> > but will get you hung by the purists! > mmmmm i will not hang you, but you for sure gave me the creeps! ;) > ;o) -- Manuel Gonz?lez Noriega Simplel?gica, construcci?n web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: simplelogica at simplelogica.net TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplel?gica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ From ron.luther at hp.com Mon May 10 10:26:28 2004 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:26:28 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Outlook feature that can bite back Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B085@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Michael Pemberton asked: >>Am I correct that there is a feature that allows you to modify the >>contents of an email that you have received? If so, is it a common >>practise to use this feature? Hi Michael, Yep - you can make changes to inbound email in Outlook. I use it in two ways: (1) When folks send me 5Mb attachments I generally save those off to a local hard drive, delete them from the incoming email, and then add a little note like "" into the original mail. Just a housekeeping measure that keeps my Outlook storage to less stratospheric levels. (2) Everybody has different ways to archive their email. One technique I use is to prepend a sequence number to the subject line. [When you 'cut' email from Outlook and 'paste' it into a drive directory you get a date/time stamp from the time you pasted to the directory - that means that you can lose the 'sequential' nature of a series of emails.] By prepending numbers I retain that 'sequential' element. This also lets me archive an entire project, including all of the emails, to a CD-R once I'm done with it. That can come in handy for future reference. So, if this was an email I intended to archive I might change the title from "RE: [thelist] Outlook feature that can bite back" to something like "1207 RE: [thelist] Outlook feature that can bite back". HTH, RonL. From thelist.evolt at adrianocastro.net Mon May 10 10:45:46 2004 From: thelist.evolt at adrianocastro.net (Adriano Castro) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:45:46 +0100 Subject: [thelist] [CSS] Full height span DIV In-Reply-To: <409F66FD.8070707@si-designs.co.uk> References: <1083075785.408e6cc9641c7@www.adrianocastro.net> <1083861712.409a6ad01d4dc@www.adrianocastro.net> <1084184212.409f56942711a@www.adrianocastro.net> <409F66FD.8070707@si-designs.co.uk> Message-ID: <1084203946.409fa3aa35b9a@www.adrianocastro.net> Hi, I did Googled a bit but couldn't find it. Strange, but true. I promise I'll try hard next time. Many thanks for your replies. AD Quoting Simon Perry : > Adriano Castro wrote: > > >Am i being ignored or are my posts just not reaching their final > destination? > > > >Any comments on my question? > > > >http://www.adrianocastro.net/post/pub/help/002.01.html > > > > > Oops forgot one! > > http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com Mon May 10 11:20:39 2004 From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:20:39 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Counting Nulls and Not-Nulls in Access Message-ID: Anybody know how to do this in Access (Jet 4.0)? Say I've got a table like, IDENTITY ProductID DateSold ...there can be multiple occurances of each ProductID, and DateSold can be NULL. I want to get output like this: ProductID TotalCount QuantitySold QuantityAvailable Can I do this in a single query? My latest attempt was: SELECT ProductID , Count(*) AS TotalCount , Count(ALL DateSold) AS QuantitySold , TotalCount - QuantitySold AS QuantityAvailable FROM MyTable GROUP BY ProductID But it didn't like it: Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression 'COUNT(ALL DateSold)'. From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Mon May 10 12:13:22 2004 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:13:22 -0700 Subject: [thelist] website translation Message-ID: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> A new project has landed on my desk which entails translating our website into multiple languages - mostly English, Spanish, German, French, Italian and Portuguese. Our int'l distributors could do the content translation for us, but that would take forever. Any suggestions to starting this project? Do I need to source an external translation service? DO I rely on freeware translations? Any experiences, insights would be appreciated. Thanks, markJ From rob.smith at THERMON.com Mon May 10 12:33:04 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:33:04 -0500 Subject: [thelist] website translation Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7C9FC@smtmb.tmc.local> Hi Mark, It is our experience that these online translators are not exact enough. We tried the "pay someone else to do it" approach, which got costly and again, didn't produce the results wanted. We ended up getting our overseas colleagues to do it for us and mentioned that it was a high priority item. The process is slow sometimes, but accurate. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Mark Joslyn [mailto:Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:13 PM To: Evolt Subject: [thelist] website translation A new project has landed on my desk which entails translating our website into multiple languages - mostly English, Spanish, German, French, Italian and Portuguese. Our int'l distributors could do the content translation for us, but that would take forever. Any suggestions to starting this project? Do I need to source an external translation service? DO I rely on freeware translations? Any experiences, insights would be appreciated. Thanks, markJ From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com Mon May 10 13:03:10 2004 From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:03:10 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Counting Nulls and Not-Nulls in Access (Solved) Message-ID: Tab Alleman wrote: > Say I've got a table like, > IDENTITY ProductID DateSold > > I want to get output like this: > ProductID TotalCount QuantitySold QuantityAvailable > > Can I do this in a single query? Got it: SELECT ProductID , COUNT(*) AS TotalCount , ( SELECT COUNT(*) FROM MyTable t2 WHERE t2.DateSold IS NOT NULL ) AS QuantitySold , TotalCount - QuantitySold AS QuantityAvailable FROM MyTable t1 GROUP BY ProductID ...hooray for subqueries. From hershelr at netvision.net.il Mon May 10 12:14:12 2004 From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (hersho robinzon) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:14:12 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C Message-ID: <37c103432e.3432e37c10@netvision.net.il> thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org wrote: > This, of course, means that you /could/ in theory create your own > custom DTD that includes your custom tags. It seems it would > be a lot > of work, however, unless you have a very specific reason to > need to do > this. Browsers, of course, would not support your custom tags. I asked about custom attributes, not custom tags. Modern browsers actually do appear to support custom attributes, insofar as allowing DOM access to the values of those attributes. I did just now remember a 'trick' I used elsewhere for just this issue--how to store a non-HTML-standard value within an HTML element: If you need to associate custom data with an HTML element but you do not want to use a custom attribute which would forego HTML validity, one option is to find a valid attribute that you do not use and that you expect/hope never to use. There are some slightly odd or rarely used ones out there, such as onmousemove and lang (lang is not generally relevant for elements aside from , especially for a single-language document.) You need only then to assign your custom value to this attribute. The value is then accessible via DOM. One caveat is that this 'trick' is certainly just that, a trick and it is potentially prone to causing problems in the future, should that attribute one day become relevant. Hershel From hershelr at netvision.net.il Mon May 10 12:14:44 2004 From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (hersho robinzon) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:14:44 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Image Empty Reference Message-ID: <36ed336c1b.36c1b36ed3@netvision.net.il> How can I code an HTML page with an tag that has no image file associated with it? What I mean is I want to do basically this: The reason I want such a strange markup is because depending on other aspects of the page, the src attribute will be assigned by Javascript. When the page loads, however, the above code will generate a 404 error on the server. I suppose I could generate the img tag itself via Javascript as well, but if someone knows how to assign an empty reference to the existing tag, that would be ideal for me. Thanks, Hershel From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Mon May 10 13:31:25 2004 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:31:25 -0700 Subject: [thelist] website translation In-Reply-To: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <002001c436bd$036bece0$6401a8c0@ed> > DO I rely on freeware translations? When translation accurate needed is, freeware solutions amusing can to be! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From john at johnallsopp.co.uk Mon May 10 13:31:39 2004 From: john at johnallsopp.co.uk (john at johnallsopp.co.uk) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [thelist] website translation In-Reply-To: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> References: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <50048.82.195.100.178.1084213899.squirrel@www.johnallsopp.co.uk> > A new project has landed on my desk which entails translating our website > into multiple languages. Any suggestions to starting this project? Years ago I used to run international PR campaigns and we found using specialist independent translators was more accurate and cheaper than any other method. If I needed to translate into a language I didn't know a translator for, I went to their professional body and asked for a recommendation. I can't put my finger on the UK body just now, but I presume there's a good chance you're in the US anyway. Using bureaux never seemed to provide the quality we required, and the price was too high. Oh, and we always checked the translation with the overseas offices. So there's your complete process. HTH J From techwriter at sound-by-design.com Mon May 10 13:36:19 2004 From: techwriter at sound-by-design.com (Allen Schaaf) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:36:19 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Is flash always bad [was: google and other search engines] In-Reply-To: <409E9DC0.60104@kasimir-k.fi> References: <000101c435f7$72a7a480$6401a8c0@ed> <409E9DC0.60104@kasimir-k.fi> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040510110040.04e02570@mail.sound-by-design.com> At 02:08 PM 5/9/04, Kasimir K wrote: >Hi Ed, > >>>It is true that not everyone likes flash - but it is also true that >>>there are many, who like it very much, and keep their plug ins up to date. >>That's groovy, but when my browser shows me "Downloading - 1% complete" >>for more than two seconds, I'm out of there. And so are an awful lot of >>dial-up consumers. > >You seem to make an assumption, that flash sites are always heavy, and >download for a long time. This is not true. Well authored flash files are >light weight, and show content as soon as first bits have downloaded. > >Badly authored pages may be heavy whether they are made with or without flash. > >>>If these people are a sites target audience, it would be foolish not to >>>use flash on that site. >> >>I don't design a web site based upon whether or not I think the >>restaurant I'm designing it for has or doesn't have people who like Flash >>in their target audience. I design it to appeal to people who might be >>attracted to that kind of dining experience. Of course, if I ever do a >>site for a >>restaurant that decorates its walls with flatpanels displaying kewl >>animation, I might reconsider that. > >Yes, you are speaking of only yourself now, which is very specific. More >generic view will give better understanding. If you desing only dining >restaurant web sites, then flash probably is not your cup of tea. > >But for those who design a web site for dj-bar with target audince of >25-30 year old trend setters, flash may be a very good choice. And when >designing a site for a company whose main product are "kewl animations", >flash probably is the only way to go ;-) > >>But in the meantime, the only company I can think of that should be >>specifically targeting Flash aficionados is Macromedia. > >I can think of many others too. It is clear that you don't personally like >flash, but the truth is, that many media oriented sites - be it sound, >animation or video - are best done with flash. Or do you consider only >text as real, good content? And any sound or moving images as always bad >content, which should be forbidden? Hi gang, I'm going to butt in on this as a semi-outsider. I do some web stuff, but it is mostly organized around content and, as a techwriter, I tend to be somewhat biased in that direction. Be that as it may, the web is only 14 years old, just a teenager with embarrassing voice changes. The reality is that the purpose for which it was created was early and easy distribution of content to save particle physics money by eliminating potentially duplicate and very expensive experiments. What has happened over time is that the web has added chrome and geegaws that now can be a burden to a large portion of the end users. It's not that the chrome and geegaws are unpleasant to the eyes, it is more a matter of how many eyes can or will see them. If we want to respect the "world wide" part of the web, we need to account for the real pipe sizes in places like India, Africa, and Latin America. If, on the other hand, all you are trying to reach are those within 50 miles of some nightclub or restaurant, then you need to consult the demographics of your potential audience and see what the download times are for the average pipe your audience has and whether the number that would flip channels rather than wait is small enough that your client is willing to write them off. Personally I see it as an opportunity to sell more services to the client, a two prong approach that can reach as many as is possible. And this is where the hard work comes in, making an appealing entrance to your client's information. Information? I thought we were talking about Flash and other "enhancements" to the web? Well, when you distill the functionality of the site to its essence, what you are providing is information that is intended to bring the potential consumer to the door of the nightclub, etc. The only real difference is the form in which the information is conveyed. And this brings us right to the nub of the question, form vs. function, or put another way, means vs. ends. Alas, there is no right answer, just results. Did more people show up because of the website or not? Was it worth the cost? I haven't seen any evidence pointing in either direction but at some point people are going to ask these hardball questions and you'll need to have answers or your clientele with go with some other fad that catches their eye or media attention. Best to all, Allen Schaaf Information Engineering http://www.doctordoc.info/ "There's more to life than increasing its speed." -- Mahatma Gandhi From evolt at muinar.com Mon May 10 13:39:05 2004 From: evolt at muinar.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:39:05 +0200 Subject: [thelist] website translation In-Reply-To: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20040510203028.0234fe78@mail.muinar.com> At 10:13 10.05.2004 -0700, you wrote: >A new project has landed on my desk which entails translating our website >into multiple languages - mostly English, Spanish, German, French, Italian >and Portuguese. Hi Mark In language-challenged Europe, we always use external translation services for this kind of work. Bids are sometimes based on a normed line length of 55 chars. You can expect to pay roughly US$ 2.70 for 1 translated line, depending on language and quality. Why aren't software translations useful here? Look at this example: I translated the first paragraph of http://evolt.org/ using Google's translator into German, and then back, using the same translator. This is the result: 'What is the best tool for developing the net products? Does it enter, which helps us, more efficiently and cleanly to cause faster, without costing a quantity money? There are it and you for age used.' This should make it obvious :) Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ From john at johnallsopp.co.uk Mon May 10 13:42:23 2004 From: john at johnallsopp.co.uk (john at johnallsopp.co.uk) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [thelist] website translation In-Reply-To: <50048.82.195.100.178.1084213899.squirrel@www.johnallsopp.co.uk> References: <027301c436b2$194557f0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> <50048.82.195.100.178.1084213899.squirrel@www.johnallsopp.co.uk> Message-ID: <50129.82.195.100.178.1084214543.squirrel@www.johnallsopp.co.uk> > I can't put my finger on the UK body just now, but I > presume there's a good chance you're in the US anyway. Found a list: .. and yes regarding automatic translators. Try translating something into a language and then back again. From neuro at well.com Mon May 10 13:55:00 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:55:00 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Warning about your e-mail account. In-Reply-To: <409E9900.6000400@f2o.org> References: <005c01c43604$7f35ae10$0200a8c0@ELECTRA> <409E9900.6000400@f2o.org> Message-ID: <409FD004.3000109@well.com> liorean wrote: > [snip] > > I just find it sad that this message was let through. A mailinglist like > this one should be able to keep mails with attachments in quarantine > until looked at, or maybe just discard them with a note to the sender. I'm unsure how this message made it to thelist (something we in content and sysadmin will undoubtedly check), but this list strips mime-encoded attachments from messages prior to list injection, so no-one was ever really in danger from this stupid virus. The point of origin of the virus message was a Wanadoo (n?e Freeserve) dialup customer, in case anyone's interested :) -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From neuro at well.com Mon May 10 13:57:05 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:57:05 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Warning: Don't open 'Are you a spammer?' In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20040510090746.027422a0@mail.muinar.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20040510090746.027422a0@mail.muinar.com> Message-ID: <409FD081.1080306@well.com> Mike wrote: > [snip] > > Seems that there are some guys letting their bot go through the archives, > picking up the obscured email addresses (like 'evolt at muinar.com' for > example) - ? The sheer amount of addresses might justify the procedure > of replacing all ' at ' by '@' and getting valid email addresses in return. It's actually more likely that a list subscriber has become infected, the virus has trawled the address book, which will include addresses culled from list posts, and has mailed out to them in an attempt to infect them. If that list subscriber has your list-only address in their address book (highly likely since you post to the list and you both subscribe to it), then the virus has a fair chance of attempting to transmit itself to you. No harm done, and really nothing we can do about it on this end. -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From evolt at pixelwright.com Mon May 10 13:59:31 2004 From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:59:31 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C References: <37c103432e.3432e37c10@netvision.net.il> Message-ID: <007b01c436c0$edce2f70$2961398a@newcos.com> hersho robinzon wrote: > If you need to associate custom data with an HTML element but you do > not want to use a custom attribute which would forego HTML validity, > one option is to find a valid attribute that you do not use and that > you expect/hope never to use. There are some slightly odd or rarely > used ones out there, such as onmousemove and lang (lang is not > generally relevant for elements aside from , especially for a > single-language document.) [...] > One caveat is that this 'trick' is certainly just that, a trick and > it is potentially prone to causing problems in the future, should > that attribute one day become relevant. All of which raises the question: what is the value of "standards-compliance" if one resorts to techniques that clearly undermine the intent of such standards while perhaps maintaining a paper-thin technical validity? You're really only just tip-toeing past the limitations of the validator. James Aylard From spambait at onpointsolutions.com Mon May 10 14:00:33 2004 From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:00:33 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Image Empty Reference References: <36ed336c1b.36c1b36ed3@netvision.net.il> Message-ID: <00cb01c436c1$127e9490$9865fea9@OFFICE> > The reason I want such a strange markup is because depending on > other aspects of the page, the src attribute will be assigned by > Javascript. When the page loads, however, the above code will > generate a 404 error on the server. Maybe I'm missing something but why not just load an invisible gif, or an otherwise blank image that matches your page background, to start and then use js to change the src. ------------- Regards, Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s www.OnPointSolutions.com From jsWalter at torres.ws Mon May 10 14:20:01 2004 From: jsWalter at torres.ws (jsWalter) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:20:01 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C In-Reply-To: <007b01c436c0$edce2f70$2961398a@newcos.com> Message-ID: <000401c436c3$cdbe9b40$0b01a8c0@TDGDEV1> > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of James Aylard > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:00 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C > All of which raises the question: what is the value of > "standards-compliance" if one resorts to techniques that > clearly undermine the intent of such standards while perhaps > maintaining a paper-thin technical validity? You're really > only just tip-toeing past the limitations of the validator. I agree. That's one reason I ignore validation failures because of "custom attributes". I can't help it if the folks who decided what attributes are supposed to be there, and then decided that nothing else belongs didn't take into effect the real world. I use custom attributes all the time. I have to if I want to get my client-side interface to work properly. i.e.: Client-side form field validation TEXTAREA limitation settings TEXT and TEXTAREA entry status display etc. So, I really don't know, nor can I foresee how ignoring these validation violations will effect me in future (I image someone here will let me know), anyway... Just my 2 cents. Walter From adrian at clearspanmedia.com Mon May 10 14:28:46 2004 From: adrian at clearspanmedia.com (Adrian Gonzales) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:28:46 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Image Empty Reference In-Reply-To: <00cb01c436c1$127e9490$9865fea9@OFFICE> Message-ID: <000701c436c5$046c9a60$e003e604@ExMachina> The reason I want such a strange markup is because depending on other aspects of the page, the src attribute will be assigned by Javascript. When the page loads, however, the above code will generate a 404 error on the server. It generates a 404 because the browser is using it like it's a relative url. Just like if you use a blank action attribute in a

tag, it sends the form to the current page. I agree with bob, just use a clear gif, it's the best solution. Adrian Gonzales Jr. Creative Director Clear Span Media 713.310.7990 clearspanmedia.com From italPASTA at takas.lt Mon May 10 14:34:41 2004 From: italPASTA at takas.lt (italPASTA) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:34:41 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Linking system Message-ID: <955095457.20040510223441@takas.lt> Hello everybody, I have just been surfing through www.allmusic.com (a fabulous source of information about artists). But there was one extremelu annoying accessibility problem. I couldn't open a link in new window or tab. So I clicked "Feedback" link and that's what I got: I can?t open the links in a new window Due to the unique and flexible linking system we employ on our sites, the best way to open links in a new window is by pressing CTRL + N (APPLE + N on Macintosh) and clicking on the desired link in the new window. Although a little unorthodox, it?s just as easy and convenient. And this accessibility problem they call "the unique and flexible linking system". So I really understand the author of "I gotta vent, sorry" (Gregory Wostrel). It's really a pitty some webmasters don't know about designing with web standards and W3C. -- Regards, italPASTA 2004.05.10 22:25 From scforum at iness.com Mon May 10 15:03:50 2004 From: scforum at iness.com (Sam Carter) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:03:50 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Client-side Swaping images Message-ID: <005f01c436c9$ecab1d20$6401a8c0@SamVAIO600P> Anyone know of a JavaScript that'll preload a dozen images from a folder , then present the user with Next / Previous buttons which allow viewing one image at a time, and client-side swapping of images ? Sam From adrian at clearspanmedia.com Mon May 10 15:13:15 2004 From: adrian at clearspanmedia.com (Adrian Gonzales) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:13:15 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Client-side Swaping images In-Reply-To: <005f01c436c9$ecab1d20$6401a8c0@SamVAIO600P> Message-ID: <000801c436cb$3ae20b10$e003e604@ExMachina> Anyone know of a JavaScript that'll preload a dozen images from a folder , then present the user with Next / Previous buttons which allow viewing one image at a time, and client-side swapping of images ? You cannot read a directory from client side scripting. Your best bet for that is to go with a server side language. Or, you can set up an array with your dozen images and make the next/previous links grab the images out of the array. Adrian Gonzales Jr. Creative Director Clear Span Media 713.310.7990 clearspanmedia.com From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com Mon May 10 15:36:00 2004 From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:36:00 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Client-side Swaping images In-Reply-To: <000801c436cb$3ae20b10$e003e604@ExMachina> References: <000801c436cb$3ae20b10$e003e604@ExMachina> Message-ID: <409FE7B0.7000700@craftedsolutions.com> Tons of interesting effects and tools at dymanicdrive.com, including several slide-show scripts. Norman --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- Adrian Gonzales wrote: > > Anyone know of a JavaScript that'll preload a dozen images from a folder > , then present the user with Next / Previous buttons which allow viewing > one image at a time, and client-side swapping of images ? > > > > You cannot read a directory from client side scripting. Your best bet > for that is to go with a server side language. Or, you can set up an > array with your dozen images and make the next/previous links grab the > images out of the array. > > Adrian Gonzales Jr. > Creative Director > Clear Span Media > 713.310.7990 > clearspanmedia.com > From cosming at as.ro Mon May 10 16:36:18 2004 From: cosming at as.ro (Cosmin G) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:36:18 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Message-ID: <002601c436d7$1d2159d0$73b7d052@voltec> My left side boxes look really weird. If you click on the flags, you'll notice how they jump around. Either this or the last letters letters of the manufacturer's name appear again somewhere below the form. http://www.voltec.ro/index.php?main_page=index&language=en The same occurs with the other language selected. Can anyone give me a hint? From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Mon May 10 15:42:02 2004 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:42:02 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Is flash always bad [was: google and other search engines] In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040510110040.04e02570@mail.sound-by-design.com> References: <000101c435f7$72a7a480$6401a8c0@ed> <409E9DC0.60104@kasimir-k.fi> <6.0.3.0.2.20040510110040.04e02570@mail.sound-by-design.com> Message-ID: <409FE91A.8040600@kasimir-k.fi> Allen Schaaf wrote: > If we want to respect the "world wide" part of the web, we need to account > for the real pipe sizes Yep. And we need do that wheather or not we are using flash - if you animate 50 huge images, it's going to be heavy both ways. If you have just text, it's going to be light both ways (yes, I can imagine why somebody would do text-only flash - actually I've seen some truly beautiful text animations done in flash). And if you need to present diagrams or line drawings, the flash often is lighter than an image. > And this is where the hard work comes in, making an appealing entrance to > your client's information. Information? I thought we were talking about > Flash and other "enhancements" to the web? Not all information is textual. Some information can be expressed only with animation, some requires synchronization of images and audio. In these cases, flash is not an "appealing entrance" to information, but the best tool to present it. > Well, when you distill the functionality of the site to its essence, what > you are providing is information that is intended to bring the potential > consumer to the door of the nightclub, etc. The only real difference is the > form in which the information is conveyed. And this brings us right to the > nub of the question, form vs. function, or put another way, means vs. ends. True, it's this simple - as long as the purpose is to sell or bring customers, and the site does it using text and images. Or actually no, it's not that simple even then... if my client runs bussiness in an obscure locatation, I might suggest using a flash-map, that the users can zoom and move. A 25k flash-map is much better and informative than a 100k gif (which would of course be provided as an option). And remember that sometimes the form *is* the function... .k From John.Brooking at sappi.com Mon May 10 16:02:18 2004 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (John.Brooking at sappi.com) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:02:18 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle Message-ID: Easy for someone, at least. Given the following simple example page (which I have posted to http://www.shoestringcms.com/test.html): Text 1 Text 2 What I get is "Text 1" on the left, and "Text 2" on the right, as expected, but "Text 2" is to the right *and* on the next line, not the same line, as I expected. You probably want to know that I am looking at it in Win XP IE 6.0, but I get the same results on Netscape 7.02. (Interestingly, Netscape 4.7 places it almost, but not quite, all the way to the left on the next line, which is more than I expected.) I have tried playing with the widths, margins, and padding, and making the first SPAN float left, but to no avail. I present it here stripped to its bare essentials. So: 1) Why is it on the next line, even though SPAN is an in-line tag? Is this one of those browser-compatibility issues? Or am I misunderstanding the CSS model? 2) Okay, if this won't work (either by design or mis-implementation), what is a nice clean way of getting a simple one-line footer, with some text on the left, and some on the right, the baselines lined up, without resorting to a TABLE? 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the right, *and* in the middle, all on the same line? Thanks in advance! John Brooking, Application Developer Sappi Fine Paper -- This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From evolt at delime.com Mon May 10 16:12:18 2004 From: evolt at delime.com (Seyon) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:12:18 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20040510171054.01e1bbe0@mail.delime.com> Message from John.Brooking at sappi.com (5/10/2004 05:02 PM) >Easy for someone, at least. Given the following simple example page (which I >have posted to http://www.shoestringcms.com/test.html): > > > > Text 1 > Text 2 > > Tried this? > > Text 1 > Text 2 > Or > > Text 2 > Text 1 > Any reason you're using spans instead of divs? regards. -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From joshua at waetech.com Mon May 10 16:17:20 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:17:20 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John.Brooking at sappi.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:02 PM > > Easy for someone, at least. Given the following simple example > page (which I > have posted to http://www.shoestringcms.com/test.html): > 1) Why is it on the next line, even though SPAN is an in-line tag? Is > this one of those browser-compatibility issues? Or am I > misunderstanding the > CSS model? John, The floated element should be placed BEFORE the non-floated element. > 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the > right, *and* in the middle, all on the same line? As such?

Text 1

Text 2

center

<><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From stowaway at uklinux.net Mon May 10 16:18:30 2004 From: stowaway at uklinux.net (joe) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:18:30 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409FF1A6.904@uklinux.net> Hi John John.Brooking at sappi.com wrote: >What I get is "Text 1" on the left, and "Text 2" on the right, as expected, >but "Text 2" is to the right *and* on the next line, not the same line, as I >expected. You probably want to know that I am looking at it in Win XP IE >6.0, but I get the same results on Netscape 7.02. (Interestingly, Netscape >4.7 places it almost, but not quite, all the way to the left on the next >line, which is more than I expected.) I have tried playing with the widths, >margins, and padding, and making the first SPAN float left, but to no avail. >I present it here stripped to its bare essentials. > > > How about floating both? Text 1 Text 2 > 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the right, *and* >in the middle, all on the same line? > > > some fantastic tutorials on 3 cols with headers and footers can be found at: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0916.htm HTH joe From marcus at bristav.se Mon May 10 16:21:32 2004 From: marcus at bristav.se (Marcus Andersson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:21:32 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409FF25C.8020406@bristav.se> This may be what you're after (though I don't really know). It have one div to the left, another in the middle (not centered but I think I can do it though) and another one in the far right.

left

middle

John.Brooking at sappi.com wrote: > Easy for someone, at least. Given the following simple example page (which I > have posted to http://www.shoestringcms.com/test.html): > > > > Text 1 > Text 2 > > > > What I get is "Text 1" on the left, and "Text 2" on the right, as expected, > but "Text 2" is to the right *and* on the next line, not the same line, as I > expected. You probably want to know that I am looking at it in Win XP IE > 6.0, but I get the same results on Netscape 7.02. (Interestingly, Netscape > 4.7 places it almost, but not quite, all the way to the left on the next > line, which is more than I expected.) I have tried playing with the widths, > margins, and padding, and making the first SPAN float left, but to no avail. > I present it here stripped to its bare essentials. > > So: > > 1) Why is it on the next line, even though SPAN is an in-line tag? Is > this one of those browser-compatibility issues? Or am I misunderstanding the > CSS model? > > 2) Okay, if this won't work (either by design or mis-implementation), > what is a nice clean way of getting a simple one-line footer, with some text > on the left, and some on the right, the baselines lined up, without > resorting to a TABLE? > > 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the right, *and* > in the middle, all on the same line? > > Thanks in advance! > > John Brooking, Application Developer > Sappi Fine Paper From marcus at bristav.se Mon May 10 16:48:28 2004 From: marcus at bristav.se (Marcus Andersson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:48:28 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: <409FF25C.8020406@bristav.se> References: <409FF25C.8020406@bristav.se> Message-ID: <409FF8AC.9050603@bristav.se> I have a follow-up question on my own proposal. You can find a page at http://mweb.se/test/test.html where you find some fields. If you look at it in Firefox it looks as I expected but if you look at it with IE6 (I don't have access to another) you can see some padding between blue-purple and between purple-yellow. Where do that come from and how do I get rid of it (without using margins that screw things up in Firefox)? The css look like this: div { height : 600px; } .left { width : 100px; background-color : blue; float : left; } .right { width : 100px; background-color : yellow; float : right; } #wrapper { background-color : purple; text-align : center; } .middle { margin : 0 auto; width : 500px; background-color : red; text-align : left; } And the html like this:

left

right

middle

/Marcus Marcus Andersson wrote: > This may be what you're after (though I don't really know). It have one > div to the left, another in the middle (not centered but I think I can > do it though) and another one in the far right. > > > > > > >

left

middle

> > > > John.Brooking at sappi.com wrote: > >> Easy for someone, at least. Given the following simple example page >> (which I >> have posted to http://www.shoestringcms.com/test.html): >> >> >> >> Text 1 >> Text 2 >> >> >> >> What I get is "Text 1" on the left, and "Text 2" on the right, as >> expected, >> but "Text 2" is to the right *and* on the next line, not the same >> line, as I >> expected. You probably want to know that I am looking at it in Win XP IE >> 6.0, but I get the same results on Netscape 7.02. (Interestingly, >> Netscape >> 4.7 places it almost, but not quite, all the way to the left on the next >> line, which is more than I expected.) I have tried playing with the >> widths, >> margins, and padding, and making the first SPAN float left, but to no >> avail. >> I present it here stripped to its bare essentials. >> >> So: >> >> 1) Why is it on the next line, even though SPAN is an in-line tag? Is >> this one of those browser-compatibility issues? Or am I >> misunderstanding the >> CSS model? >> >> 2) Okay, if this won't work (either by design or mis-implementation), >> what is a nice clean way of getting a simple one-line footer, with >> some text >> on the left, and some on the right, the baselines lined up, without >> resorting to a TABLE? >> 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the right, >> *and* >> in the middle, all on the same line? >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> John Brooking, Application Developer >> Sappi Fine Paper > > From anaxamaxan at neptunewebworks.com Mon May 10 17:32:25 2004 From: anaxamaxan at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:32:25 -0700 Subject: [thelist] background-position on IE6 Win Message-ID: Hello all, I seem to recall a link somewhere for a javascript fix for the IE6 failure to support background-position: fixed on non-BODY elements. I googled around, even asked jeeves, no joy. I thought there was a link right from Eric Meyer's Complex Spiral demo/tutorial, but that memory turned out to be false. Someone happen to know what I'm talking about, and have a link to it? Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Mon May 10 18:08:06 2004 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:08:06 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Easy CSS Riddle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A00B56.406@kasimir-k.fi> Great riddle! > 1) Why is it on the next line, even though SPAN is an in-line tag? Is > this one of those browser-compatibility issues? Or am I misunderstanding the > CSS model? "The element generates a block box that is floated ... "[1] So that span no longer is inline element. > 2) Okay, if this won't work (either by design or mis-implementation), > what is a nice clean way of getting a simple one-line footer, with some text > on the left, and some on the right, the baselines lined up, without > resorting to a TABLE? As Joe suggested, floating both does the trick: Text 1 Text 2 > 3) Extra credit: What if I wanted some text on the left, the right, *and* > in the middle, all on the same line? Using spans? Just keep on floting: Text 1 Text 1.5 Text 2 Note that width property does not apply to inline elements (except replaced), so width here works only because float makes these spans to blocks. So this works too: Text 1 Text 1.5 Text 2 And coming to think of it, you can add more floated elements there, just keep the widhts <= 100% - but this is not limited to one-liners: you can create nice multicolumn fluid layouts with this appoach. .kasimir [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-float From syoung at unitec.ac.nz Mon May 10 18:55:28 2004 From: syoung at unitec.ac.nz (Stuart Young) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:55:28 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Web Development Methodology Message-ID: here's an idea... Make the client do all the work! http://www.digitalstream.co.nz/index.asp?PageID=2145821941 "This questionnaire will help us develop the best solution for your Internet Strategy. Please take the time to complete as much as you can, omitting technical questions if they are beyond your knowledge. This will tailor your website design as well as your e-business strategy." cheers Dr Stuart Young, +64 (0)9-815 4321 Ex 8656 Lecturer, School of Computing and Information Technology, Unitec New Zealand, Auckland, New Zealand http://hyperdisc.unitec.ac.nz/staff/syoung.htm I would provide a URL for my official staffpage, but its too long and complex From syoung at unitec.ac.nz Mon May 10 18:58:46 2004 From: syoung at unitec.ac.nz (Stuart Young) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:58:46 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Smooth Corners revisted _ archive search Message-ID: --------------------- I recall a while ago corners sitting in each corner of a table creating a rounded square effect was discussed could someone post the links for creating this effect please? --------------------- http://www.sitepoint.com/article/trick-rounded-corner-tables cheers Dr Stuart Young, +64 (0)9-815 4321 Ex 8656 Lecturer, School of Computing and Information Technology, Unitec New Zealand, Auckland, New Zealand http://hyperdisc.unitec.ac.nz/staff/syoung.htm I would provide a URL for my official staffpage, but its too long and complex From lingz at cs.umd.edu Mon May 10 21:13:48 2004 From: lingz at cs.umd.edu (Zhang, Lingling) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:13:48 -0400 Subject: [thelist] ASP.NET visibility question Message-ID: <46EB7F79983B0740A6B16198F954DCE542715C@delegate.pc.cs.umd.edu> Hi all, I've had an asp:Table (table1) in my form, and in that table I have several web controls, like asp:checkbox, asp:textbox, etc. And I set the table1.visible = false. Then I found that the controls inside the table are not accessible in .cs code. I'm guessing it's because I set the table to be invisible. Am I guessing right? Also, if that's the case, is there a way to hide the table but still be able to access the inside controls? Thank you very much, Lingling From lists at klepl.com Mon May 10 21:18:59 2004 From: lists at klepl.com (Thomas Klepl) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:18:59 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mySQL - expert advice needed for TV schedule query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the reply Tab - you're the only brave one to attempt an answer. The database (which I did not design) does not specifically distinguish multiple showings... they just appear later in the day :) This was the problem, when I was trying to determine duration based on start and end times... I discovered today that there was a 'total duration' field in the content_detail table, so I could easily get total durations for entire programs. I was able to drop the GROUP BY and MIN/MAX functions and used a WHERE clause to eliminate records with a segment ID higher than 01. Thanks anyways. BTW, what is considered the defacto "must have" SQL book out there (or what would you suggest..)? Tom -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tab Alleman Sent: May 10, 2004 9:40 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] mySQL - expert advice needed for TV schedule query Thomas Klepl wrote: > I need to somehow have 'sub-groups' or something to cause the query to > spit out a separate row for each showing of a program. Keep in mind > that each program can have any number of segments which must be > aggregated. I don't see anything in your query that seems to have anything to do with segments...how does your database differentiate between a segment of a program, and a later showing of a program? From what I see below, you are asking for the start time of the first showing and the end time of the last showing. All you would need to do AFAICS, is take out the GROUP BY clause and the MIN/MAX functions, and you'll get a separate row for each showing, which you can work with in php...but I don't understand how "segments" come into play, in either your database, or your target output. > SELECT schedule.house_number_full, schedule.date, > MIN(schedule.start_time) AS start_time, MAX(schedule.end_time) AS > end_time, content_detail.title > > FROM schedule > > LEFT JOIN content_detail ON content_detail.house_number_full = > schedule.house_number_full > > WHERE schedule.identifier LIKE '$identifier' > > AND schedule.house_number_prefix LIKE '$contentType' > > AND (((schedule.date LIKE '$startDate') AND (schedule.start_time >= > $startTime)) > > OR ((schedule.date LIKE '$endDate') AND (schedule.start_time < > $startTime_tomorrow))) > > GROUP BY schedule.house_number_full, schedule.date, > content_detail.title > > ORDER BY schedule.date, schedule.start_time From Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com Mon May 10 10:09:15 2004 From: Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com (Hershel Robinson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:09:15 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Image Empty Reference Message-ID: <00d001c436a0$c5d7fbb0$0300000a@hershel2000> How can I code an HTML page with an tag that has no image file associated with it? What I mean is I want to do basically this: The reason I want such a strange markup is because depending on other aspects of the page, the src attribute will be assigned by Javascript. When the page loads, however, the above code will generate a 404 error on the server. I suppose I could generate the img tag itself via Javascript as well, but if someone knows how to assign an empty reference to the existing tag, that would be ideal for me. Thanks, Hershel From Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com Mon May 10 10:13:05 2004 From: Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com (Hershel Robinson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:13:05 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C Message-ID: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org wrote: > This, of course, means that you /could/ in theory create your own > custom DTD that includes your custom tags. It seems it would > be a lot > of work, however, unless you have a very specific reason to > need to do > this. Browsers, of course, would not support your custom tags. I asked about custom attributes, not custom tags. Modern browsers actually do appear to support custom attributes, insofar as allowing DOM access to the values of those attributes. I did just now remember a 'trick' I used elsewhere for just this issue--how to store a non-HTML-standard value within an HTML element: If you need to associate custom data with an HTML element but you do not want to use a custom attribute which would forego HTML validity, one option is to find a valid attribute that you do not use and that you expect/hope never to use. There are some slightly odd or rarely used ones out there, such as onmousemove and lang (lang is not generally relevant for elements aside from , especially for a single-language document.) You need only then to assign your custom value to this attribute. The value is then accessible via DOM. One caveat is that this 'trick' is certainly just that, a trick and it is potentially prone to causing problems in the future, should that attribute one day become relevant. Hershel From Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com Mon May 10 14:04:43 2004 From: Hershel at GalleryRobinson.com (Hershel Robinson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:04:43 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C In-Reply-To: <007b01c436c0$edce2f70$2961398a@newcos.com> Message-ID: <00f801c436c1$aadf3780$0300000a@hershel2000> > All of which raises the question: what is the value of > "standards-compliance" if one resorts to techniques that > clearly undermine > the intent of such standards while perhaps maintaining a paper-thin > technical validity? You're really only just tip-toeing past > the limitations > of the validator. I agree wholeheartedly. Why am doing such an odd thing? Because we have a need for custom attributes yet my boss wants valid pages! :) Hershel From sam at nativeintelligence.com Mon May 10 14:57:57 2004 From: sam at nativeintelligence.com (Sam Carter) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:57:57 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Client-side Swaping images Message-ID: <005a01c436c9$1a6b42e0$6401a8c0@SamVAIO600P> Anyone know of a JavaScript that'll preload a dozen images from a folder , then present the user with Next / Previous buttons which allow viewing one image at a time, and client-side swapping of images ? Sam From dianesoini at earthlink.net Mon May 10 21:31:58 2004 From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:31:58 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: <60A7BDDF-A2F3-11D8-B889-00039358CB42@earthlink.net> I have recently transfered to another department at work, and thought maybe the bad times were behind me. Nope. They're not. I am working with another person just like a person I worked with before. Control freak, perfectionist, older than me, and tasked with creating web content, but without any comprehension of html, css, web standards and even basic web practices like creating good navigation, content that fits in a web browser window etc. This is the same issue that has prevented me from doing any freelance work. How do you create good web design and then expect non-web people to be able to "take it from here"? I would love to be able to collaborate with people who are better graphic designers or content writers than me, but how do you do that when they don't understand how web sites work, or how html and css works, and don't want to turn over control to anybody else? Believe it or not, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who have to make web content, who use Dreamweaver, but cannot possibly follow web standards, or even common web design practices and principles, because they can't see exactly what the final product looks like in the Dreamweaver interface. Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you create a web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? From dianesoini at earthlink.net Mon May 10 21:33:53 2004 From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:33:53 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: I have recently transfered to another department at work, and thought maybe the bad times were behind me. Nope. They're not. I am working with another person just like a person I worked with before. Control freak, perfectionist, older than me, and tasked with creating web content, but without any comprehension of html, css, web standards and even basic web practices like creating good navigation, content that fits in a web browser window etc. This is the same issue that has prevented me from doing any freelance work. How do you create good web design and then expect non-web people to be able to "take it from here"? I would love to be able to collaborate with people who are better graphic designers or content writers than me, but how do you do that when they don't understand how web sites work, or how html and css works, and don't want to turn over control to anybody else? Believe it or not, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who have to make web content, who use Dreamweaver, but cannot possibly follow web standards, or even common web design practices and principles, because they can't see exactly what the final product looks like in the Dreamweaver interface. Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you create a web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? *** Don't be afraid to try something new. An amateur built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. -unknown From diane at dianesoini.com Mon May 10 21:34:11 2004 From: diane at dianesoini.com (Diane Soini) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:34:11 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: I have recently transfered to another department at work, and thought maybe the bad times were behind me. Nope. They're not. I am working with another person just like a person I worked with before. Control freak, perfectionist, older than me, and tasked with creating web content, but without any comprehension of html, css, web standards and even basic web practices like creating good navigation, content that fits in a web browser window etc. This is the same issue that has prevented me from doing any freelance work. How do you create good web design and then expect non-web people to be able to "take it from here"? I would love to be able to collaborate with people who are better graphic designers or content writers than me, but how do you do that when they don't understand how web sites work, or how html and css works, and don't want to turn over control to anybody else? Believe it or not, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who have to make web content, who use Dreamweaver, but cannot possibly follow web standards, or even common web design practices and principles, because they can't see exactly what the final product looks like in the Dreamweaver interface. Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you create a web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? *** Don't be afraid to try something new. An amateur built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. -unknown From paul at clicksave.co.nz Mon May 10 21:40:26 2004 From: paul at clicksave.co.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:40:26 +1200 Subject: [thelist] information reporting solution >> your thoughts? Message-ID: <40A03D1A.8010402@clicksave.co.nz> Hi there, I am working completing a feasibility study for a government organisation (social work) which has a variety of information reporting needs. They currently have a crude paper-based time sheeting 'system', a paper-based client information system, and an Access db based client database system (government mandated - can't touch or change this sorry). They want to be able to: 1. provide statistical reports to a board of trustess to show organisational prgress (mainly in terms of assisting clients) 2. know how and where staff are spending their time (currently the paper-base system is not well supported) 3. order cleint data efficiently and effectively (files have been lost / misplaced / duplicated in the past) They have a central domain server for their internal network (windows 2000 I think), and I am proposing to install a timesheeting web application (intra, not inter-net), a client file management app (browser based) and some scripting to process the .mdb files and produce printable html reports. In the process of doing this, I was wondering if any Evolters had any other / different suggestions? Paul From joshua at waetech.com Mon May 10 21:50:35 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:50:35 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content In-Reply-To: <60A7BDDF-A2F3-11D8-B889-00039358CB42@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Diane Soini > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:32 PM Diane, It sounds as if your collaborators are a perfect cross-section of the users who will ultimately end up using the site. Users don't know how or why some navigations are better than others, they don't know why you don't place search boxes at the bottom, they just know if they like the site or if they don't. So, just like end users, the trick to remaining sane is to embrace there inexperience instead of wishing they were smarter. You mentioned that this new person you work with is tasked with the job of producing web content. Then, you say that they don't know understand HTML and CSS or how to create good navigation and content that fits in the window. I would suggest that you don't need to know these things to make good content. As a person that knows these technical concepts of design, it would be on your shoulders to take the content they want to publish and help them organize it such that these additional criteria are met. Once they get used to the process of taking the content and reorganizing it to fit the site, perhaps they can assist in the process, but initially they will need a lot of hand-holding. I'm not going to pretend that I know how your organization is hierarched or what roles people are expected to play. But, as in any organization, some people are going to have both strengths AND weaknesses. It sounds as if you've already identified where you are strong and others are weak. Now, turn the tables and figure out where others are strong where you are weak. Then, help you and those around you fill in each others weaknesses until it's all a seamless process. Try to bear in mind that some people will always be weak in certain areas no matter how hard you encourage them to learn. It's not because they are stubborn, but perhaps because they simply don't share the same inspirations and motivators as you. I know this process can be ridiculously tiring and taxing, so hang in there. Hopefully the above advice helps you, and good luck, <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From Olwen.Williams at safeair.co.nz Mon May 10 22:03:37 2004 From: Olwen.Williams at safeair.co.nz (Williams, Olwen - SAL) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:03:37 +1200 Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiple languag es Message-ID: <885DD244433C044F8C0611151A3818623167ED@ChemWeb> Take a look at SPIP. www.spip.net It takes a bit of learning to set up, but has all the multilingual facilities and can be customised. It helps to understand French. Olwen Williams olwen.williams at safeair.co.nz -- -----Original Message----- From: Liam Delahunty [mailto:liam at megaproducts.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:43 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiple languages I'm looking for an opensource MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiple languages (at once) so that a user could arrive and then select E.F.G.I.S and see the content, if available, in the chosen language otherwise default to the English. I'm not looking for a blog style result. It will be for a small designer hotel web site, highly stylized so the templating or at least the output needs to be easily configurable. The content of the site will be in a fairly rigorous hierarchy [1]. So I assume the CMS will need a mechanism to publish 'pages' and 'sub pages' and maintain the navigation itself. Ideally with an additional breadcrumb trail. I'm fairly easy as to whether the pages are actually physically published or are retrieved from the database with a query string and sessions. /en/section_name/page_name /it/section_name/page_name ____________________________________________________________________ CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify Safe Air Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Safe Air. _____________________________________________________________________ For more information on the Safe Air Group, visit us online at http://www.safeair.co.nz/ _____________________________________________________________________ From lingz at cs.umd.edu Mon May 10 22:04:28 2004 From: lingz at cs.umd.edu (Zhang, Lingling) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:04:28 -0400 Subject: [thelist] ValidationSummary question Message-ID: <46EB7F79983B0740A6B16198F954DCE5427165@delegate.pc.cs.umd.edu> Hi, I have several Validation controls in my form and a ValidationSummary control, the code is like this: ...... And I also set the save_button's causeValidation to be true. However, when I click the button, there's no message box even the txtDOE was blank. It just doesn't seem that the validation occurred. Can anyone tell me what I possibly did wrong? Thanks, Lingling From jsWalter at torres.ws Mon May 10 23:32:17 2004 From: jsWalter at torres.ws (jsWalter) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:32:17 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C In-Reply-To: <00f801c436c1$aadf3780$0300000a@hershel2000> Message-ID: <001601c43710$f46ec100$0b01a8c0@TDGDEV1> > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Hershel Robinson > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:05 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] Custom HTML Attributes and W3C > I agree wholeheartedly. Why am doing such an odd thing? > Because we have a need for custom attributes yet my boss > wants valid pages! Ah yes, his cake and eat it too! I've had a few "bosses" like that. Good luck! Walter From syoung at unitec.ac.nz Tue May 11 00:22:24 2004 From: syoung at unitec.ac.nz (Stuart Young) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:22:24 +1200 Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiple languages Message-ID: liam wrote: --------------------- I'm looking for an opensource MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiple languages (at once) ... ... fairly rigorous hierarchy -------------------- CMS Matrix http://www.cmswatch.com/ Excellent comparison tool. You can view a single listing or select up to 10 content management tools to compare at once. A large range of features are compared. The ones you want are... * Internationalization * Sub-sites / Roots CMS Watch http://www.cmswatch.com/ These CMS consultants focus mainly on high-end enteprise CMS for companies. Their website has a top 40 list of CMS products, but this only links to news stories (rather than reviews or analysis). Publish the CMS Report, an objective, in-depth analysis of web content management - a very expensive report. You can try out all the open source PHP/MySQL CMS before you install at: http://www.opensourcecms.com or check out the international association for Open Source Content Management: http://www.oscom.org/ http://www.oscom.org/matrix/index.html http://www.hartman-communicatie.nl/Content/tools.htm This massive list presents a overview of content management systems produced by an independent Dutch consultancy agency called Hartman Communicatie BV who strive to be vendor-neutral and have no commercial intentions. Suppliers are responsible for the update of their product specifications. Also has links to product homepages. http://www.commonsgroup.com/ideas/fulltext.shtml?x=212 Content Management System Comparison is an excellent product comparison table, although only covering 5 products and somewhat simplistic in the reviews. http://www.cms-list.org/about CMS-List is a long-standing and respected mailing list for CMS professionals. You can browse or search the archives. http://www.plainblack.com/product_comparison Another comparison table of content management systems Covers 13 different CMS products, but could be biased because it is produced by the makers of one of the software products. http://www.jisc.ac.uk/index.cfm?name=techwatch_report_0102 Content Management Systems - a good report on CMS for the UK education sector. Paul Browning, University of Bristol, and Mike Lowndes, Natural History Museum, London September 2001 http://www.opensourcecms.com/hobbes/HowToChooseACMS.pdf How to Choose a CMS is a 5 page PDF with some simple advice on deciding which CMS is right for you. cheers Dr Stuart Young, +64 (0)9-815 4321 Ex 8656 Lecturer, School of Computing and Information Technology, Unitec New Zealand, Auckland, New Zealand http://hyperdisc.unitec.ac.nz/staff/syoung.htm I would provide a URL for my official staffpage, but its too long and complex From j at firebright.com Tue May 11 00:40:48 2004 From: j at firebright.com (Jonathan) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:40:48 -0700 Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP simple CMS that supports multiplelanguages References: Message-ID: <03c401c4371a$83b26340$0200a8c0@DIDO> Those are all *really* excellent resources that we all should have in our bookmarks. We have been using eZ Publish to build a lot of sites lately, and I have to tell you, the new 3.4 version (just coming out in Beta) is really awesome. I would look into it. Once you understand the basics, it's one of the better CMS solutions out there, and it's GPL. Jonathan > You can try out all the open source PHP/MySQL CMS before you install > at: > http://www.opensourcecms.com From lists at semioticpixels.com Tue May 11 01:15:00 2004 From: lists at semioticpixels.com (lists) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:15:00 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content In-Reply-To: <60A7BDDF-A2F3-11D8-B889-00039358CB42@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000801c4371f$4bbe67e0$6501a8c0@speedracer> At some point, you'll probably realize you need a web management system (for example Plone running on Zope) - commonly mislabeled as a content management system - That's why cms's were developed in the first place, so content providers can focus on content and htmlers can focus on htmling. There are numerous open source cms/wms out there that you could modify. Since they're using DreamWeaver, for a quick fix, you might try using DreamWeaver's templates so they can add content to "editable" regions without messing things up. You could couple that with a really good css styleguide. Contribute is macromedia's product for content providers, although when I tested it out, I was less than impressed by the learning curve (my usergroup wouldn't have been motivated enough) Another quick fix would be to build your own simple content management system - all you really need is a web form for content going in and text in a database for content coming out. hth -chris http://www.semioticpixels.com From dianesoini at earthlink.net Mon May 10 21:13:26 2004 From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:13:26 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Re: Is flash always bad [was: google and other In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In my opinion, people tend not to use Flash for what it is best for. I think it is ok to use it for animations that decorate a site, or for things like cartoons or games that you really can't do any other way. But not for the entire web site. Who really cares if flash is used in a small area of the page? Flash or image, it's all pretty much the same. But if the whole navigation or the whole web site is Flash? No, that's not good. If you don't like, it or can't use it, your screwed. The other thing Flash really does well, that seems to be seriously overlooked, is to create custom user interfaces for complex web applications. You would hardly need to bookmark or spider deep into a web application. You can use Flash to make a tabbed interface, true combo box, or other user interface widgets that you can't get with straight html. And you can create an interface that can communicate with the server without refreshing the page. Flash also removes some of the browser compatibility issues of javascript, making complicated UI elements easier to do. Nevertheless, with something like that you would probably have to create a non-flash alternative, or else you will lose some customers. Unless you are on an intranet and can dictate what people can use. Diane On Monday, May 10, 2004, at 02:26 PM, thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote: > Re: Is flash always bad [was: google and other > search engines] (Allen Schaaf) *** Don't be afraid to try something new. An amateur built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. -unknown From justin at jazzmanagement.com.au Tue May 11 02:55:20 2004 From: justin at jazzmanagement.com.au (Justin Zachan) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:55:20 +1000 Subject: [thelist] CSS Resources Message-ID: Hi. I know it has been asked many times but I was not listening. Can anyone suggest some good CSS resources to learn good practical CSS skills? Thanks in advance. Cheers Justin From marcus at bristav.se Tue May 11 03:25:42 2004 From: marcus at bristav.se (Marcus Andersson) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:25:42 +0200 Subject: [thelist] CSS Resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A08E06.6070202@bristav.se> http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FrontPage http://www.alistapart.com/topics/css/ http://www.glish.com/css/ Justin Zachan wrote: > Hi. I know it has been asked many times but I was not listening. > > Can anyone suggest some good CSS resources to learn good practical CSS > skills? > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers > > Justin > > > From andy at message.uk.com Tue May 11 03:49:21 2004 From: andy at message.uk.com (Andy Budd) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:49:21 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CSS Resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <189B3BD3-A328-11D8-856F-003065480AC6@message.uk.com> also http://cssvault.com/ http://www.htmldog.com/ http://css.maxdesign.com.au/ http://www.westciv.com/ Justin Zachan wrote: > Can anyone suggest some good CSS resources to learn good practical CSS > skills? Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ From dianesoini at earthlink.net Mon May 10 21:31:58 2004 From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:31:58 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: <60A7BDDF-A2F3-11D8-B889-00039358CB42@earthlink.net> I have recently transfered to another department at work, and thought maybe the bad times were behind me. Nope. They're not. I am working with another person just like a person I worked with before. Control freak, perfectionist, older than me, and tasked with creating web content, but without any comprehension of html, css, web standards and even basic web practices like creating good navigation, content that fits in a web browser window etc. This is the same issue that has prevented me from doing any freelance work. How do you create good web design and then expect non-web people to be able to "take it from here"? I would love to be able to collaborate with people who are better graphic designers or content writers than me, but how do you do that when they don't understand how web sites work, or how html and css works, and don't want to turn over control to anybody else? Believe it or not, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who have to make web content, who use Dreamweaver, but cannot possibly follow web standards, or even common web design practices and principles, because they can't see exactly what the final product looks like in the Dreamweaver interface. Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you create a web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? From ashiel at sportsinteraction.com Tue May 11 04:40:37 2004 From: ashiel at sportsinteraction.com (Drew Shiel) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:40:37 +0100 Subject: [thelist] PHP fopen https In-Reply-To: <409F2897.4070802@meidomus.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040428160446.02aaa550@mail.sportsinteraction.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040428160446.02aaa550@mail.sportsinteraction.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040511103848.02a87258@mail.sportsinteraction.com> At 08:00 10/05/2004, Burhan Khalid wrote: >2. Look for --with-openssl= in your Configure Command section of phpinfo() >output, or you can scroll down and check for the openssl section. On my >server, its : > >OpenSSL support enabled >OpenSSL Version OpenSSL 0.9.7d 17 Mar 2004 Thanks! I've looked carefully through phpinfo's output - no OpenSSL. There is CURL, however, which istr does something useful in that area. I'll burrow into the docs and see what I can find. Cheers, Drew. -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 04/05/2004 From david.landy at somerfield.co.uk Tue May 11 06:44:48 2004 From: david.landy at somerfield.co.uk (david.landy at somerfield.co.uk) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:48 -0000 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? Message-ID: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717137@NTABEXG5> Manuel, italPASTA(!), Tony, and David -- many thanks for all your replies. The ones I like the most are: 1.

Image Title This makes good sense logically in that it ties the image and its title together by element - but I can't see how to format it so that the label would always be under the image. and 2. The javascript method to use the dom to create a text element, using the title attribute of the image (see below). Now... could dom be used to replace the image with a single-cell table with the image, and a caption element? David http://www.1976design.com/blog/archive/2003/11/25/captions/ -- David Landy, IT Consultant, Business Intelligence Somerfield/KwikSave Support Centre Whitchurch, Bristol, UK. Tel: 0117 301 8977 david.landy at somerfield.co.uk ? ? This is the true joy of life. The being used for a purpose Recognized by yourself as a mighty one. George Bernard Shaw If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please preserve the confidentiality of it and advise the sender immediately of any error in transmission. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken, or omitted to be taken, by an unauthorised recipient in reliance upon the contents of this e-mail is prohibited. Somerfield cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses so please carry out your own virus checks before opening an attachment. In replying to this e-mail you are granting the right for that reply to be forwarded to any other individual within the business and also to be read by others. Any views expressed by an individual within this message do not necessarily reflect the views of Somerfield. Somerfield reserves the right to intercept, monitor and record communications for lawful business purposes. From RRust at COVANSYS.com Tue May 11 06:31:34 2004 From: RRust at COVANSYS.com (RUST Randal) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:31:34 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to work with non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A996@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> Diana Soini said: > This is the same issue that has prevented me from doing any freelance > work. How do you create good web design and then expect > non-web people to be able to "take it from here"? I don't understand why it keeps you from doing freelance work. This is the outlet that provides me with the greater freedom to do things however I want, because I'm in charge of the project. > I would love to be able to collaborate with people who are better > graphic designers or content writers than me, but how do you do that > when they don't understand how web sites work, or how html and css > works, and don't want to turn over control to anybody else? The way I see it, you can't do anything about the control. That's just a facet of every job. But that doesn't mean that you yourself have to produce sloppy markup and bloated Web pages. > Believe it > or not, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who > have to make > web content, who use Dreamweaver, but cannot possibly follow web > standards, or even common web design practices and > principles, because > they can't see exactly what the final product looks like in the > Dreamweaver interface. Not hard to believe at all. In fact, I would say that the majority of people who build Web sites and Web applications use some type of a WYSIWYG to write code. > Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you > create a > web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques > and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? But is it a problem? Does this person care how it works? Does this person want to know /how/ it works? I suggest taking the time to talk about the benefits of your approach, if you haven't already. Just keep in mind that you may not get it your way. Look for some type of a compromise that will make your life easier (like formatting with a but controlling colors and styles with CSS). Don't try to fight the whole battle at once. Look for small victories and keep chipping away:) ---------- Randal Rust Covansys Corp. Columbus, OH From evolt at david.us-lot.org Tue May 11 06:35:04 2004 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:35:04 +0100 Subject: [thelist] caption on images? In-Reply-To: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717137@NTABEXG5> References: <09FC00221135D711AD0A00508BB84CBD01717137@NTABEXG5> Message-ID: <3EDE1F9C-A33F-11D8-8E18-000A957E4F00@david.us-lot.org> On 11 May 2004, at 12:44, david.landy at somerfield.co.uk wrote: > Manuel, italPASTA(!), Tony, and David -- many thanks for all your > replies. > > The ones I like the most are: > > 1.

Image Title Its a nice idea, but is explicitly for labeling _controls_. And images are not controls (save for ) -- David Dorward From derick at heraldgreen.com Tue May 11 07:47:41 2004 From: derick at heraldgreen.com (Derick Montague) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:47:41 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how to workwith non-web people who have to create web content In-Reply-To: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A996@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> Message-ID: That is excellent advice! Just know, Diana, that you are not alone in that feeling. I too experience many of the same issues and feelings. Thanks for your feedback Rust! It gave me some insight before I started my day off in a less than positive frame of mind and reminded me that freelance work is an important outlet. Diana Soini said: > Any ideas how I can solve this problem? What happens when you > create a > web design project using advanced CSS or other web design techniques > and then deliver it to somebody who doesn't understand how it works? Randal Rust said: But is it a problem? Does this person care how it works? Does this person want to know /how/ it works? I suggest taking the time to talk about the benefits of your approach, if you haven't already. Just keep in mind that you may not get it your way. Look for some type of a compromise that will make your life easier (like formatting with a

but controlling colors and styles with CSS). Don't try to fight the whole battle at once. Look for small victories and keep chipping away:) From RRust at COVANSYS.com Tue May 11 07:50:17 2004 From: RRust at COVANSYS.com (RUST Randal) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:50:17 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how toworkwith non-web people who have to create web content Message-ID: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A99B@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> Derick Montague said: > Thanks for your feedback Rust! It gave me some insight before > I started my day off in a less than positive frame of mind > and reminded me that freelance work is an important outlet. Thanks, Derek. I pretty much go through this process on a daily basis. I work for an IT consultant, and it never ceases to amaze me at the lack of knowledge most of our developers possess. I am our lead UI designer, so what my team does is build prototypes and pass them along for the development team to turn into J2EE Web applications. We build the prototypes with XHTML/CSS/JS/PHP/MYSQL. Everything that my team builds is strictly to standards. So what do we get after the application is built? - Tag Soup - Javascript used for forwarding pages from one to another Imagine my daily frustration:) ---------- Randal Rust Covansys Corp. Columbus, OH From walter at torres.ws Tue May 11 07:51:03 2004 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:51:03 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Security concerns on this... Message-ID: <000001c43756$a1885c80$0b01a8c0@TDGDEV1> What's the drawback on this block on each page? if (!isset($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'])||!isset($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_PW'])) { header('WWW-Authenticate: Basic realm="My Realm"'); header('HTTP/1.0 401 Unauthorized'); echo 'Authorization required'; header("location: err_page.php"); } Never mind the fact it doesn't really chaeck for valid info, this is just a crude demo. Walter From dmccullough at garnethill.com Tue May 11 07:54:58 2004 From: dmccullough at garnethill.com (Dan McCullough) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:54:58 -0400 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase Message-ID: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Looking to purchase a laptop for someone else. I have been burnt by laptops before and usually only go with the Toshiba or IBM Thinkpad. They need something that will work easy (non-tech people, somewhat computer literate), and not have much problem. So I was looking at a Dell with Windows XP Home. Also they have a budget. Here is what they need it for. Audio recording and burning, power point presentations and a few other small things. They would also like to possibly burn Digital Video. Any thoughts, on what I should look for and at, any experiences. Should I forgo the Pent 4 HT processor and go for a Pent M processor? Any help would be appreciated. dan mccullough web technology garnethill.com 603.823.5545 x 1119 ________________________________ There is no such thing as a problem, unless the servers are on fire. Sometimes great opportunity comes brilliantly disguised as bad news. From evolt at mccullough-net.com Tue May 11 08:07:06 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:07:06 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how toworkwith non-web people who have to create web content In-Reply-To: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A99B@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> References: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A99B@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> Message-ID: <1084280826.40a0cffa57989@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Same thing that I get here at work, I am one developer so I work on my project and supervise the development company but I see that same thing you talked about coming back, the JSP and Java, SQL queries are not bad they are pretty good, but my UI guys XHTML/CSS/JS is nothing like what he sent and they usually arent following the documentation for what we sent over. Quoting RUST Randal : > Derick Montague said: > > > Thanks for your feedback Rust! It gave me some insight before > > I started my day off in a less than positive frame of mind > > and reminded me that freelance work is an important outlet. > > Thanks, Derek. I pretty much go through this process on a daily basis. I > work for an IT consultant, and it never ceases to amaze me at the lack > of knowledge most of our developers possess. > > I am our lead UI designer, so what my team does is build prototypes and > pass them along for the development team to turn into J2EE Web > applications. We build the prototypes with XHTML/CSS/JS/PHP/MYSQL. > Everything that my team builds is strictly to standards. > > So what do we get after the application is built? > > - Tag Soup > - Javascript used for forwarding pages from one to another > > Imagine my daily frustration:) > > ---------- > Randal Rust > Covansys Corp. > Columbus, OH > -- > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From evolt at david.us-lot.org Tue May 11 08:03:18 2004 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:03:18 +0100 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Message-ID: <929223A3-A34B-11D8-8E18-000A957E4F00@david.us-lot.org> On 11 May 2004, at 13:54, Dan McCullough wrote: > Looking to purchase a laptop for someone else. I have been burnt by > laptops before and usually only go with the Toshiba or IBM Thinkpad. > They need something that will work easy (non-tech people, somewhat > computer literate), and not have much problem. So I was looking at a > Dell with Windows XP Home. Also they have a budget. > > Here is what they need it for. Audio recording and burning, power > point > presentations and a few other small things. They would also like to > possibly burn Digital Video. I'd give some serious consideration to an Apple Powerbook. Use rsync and ssh to quickly and securely upload files from your test / development system to your remote server. -- David Dorward From evolt at mccullough-net.com Tue May 11 08:07:06 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:07:06 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Was I gotta vent, but now is a question of how toworkwith non-web people who have to create web content In-Reply-To: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A99B@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> References: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E6004210623A99B@fth-ex02.CVNS.corp.covansys.com> Message-ID: <1084280826.40a0cffa57989@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Same thing that I get here at work, I am one developer so I work on my project and supervise the development company but I see that same thing you talked about coming back, the JSP and Java, SQL queries are not bad they are pretty good, but my UI guys XHTML/CSS/JS is nothing like what he sent and they usually arent following the documentation for what we sent over. Quoting RUST Randal : > Derick Montague said: > > > Thanks for your feedback Rust! It gave me some insight before > > I started my day off in a less than positive frame of mind > > and reminded me that freelance work is an important outlet. > > Thanks, Derek. I pretty much go through this process on a daily basis. I > work for an IT consultant, and it never ceases to amaze me at the lack > of knowledge most of our developers possess. > > I am our lead UI designer, so what my team does is build prototypes and > pass them along for the development team to turn into J2EE Web > applications. We build the prototypes with XHTML/CSS/JS/PHP/MYSQL. > Everything that my team builds is strictly to standards. > > So what do we get after the application is built? > > - Tag Soup > - Javascript used for forwarding pages from one to another > > Imagine my daily frustration:) > > ---------- > Randal Rust > Covansys Corp. > Columbus, OH > -- > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From John.Brooking at sappi.com Tue May 11 08:09:40 2004 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (John.Brooking at sappi.com) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:09:40 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Re: Easy CSS Riddle Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who replied! Specifically, From: Seyon : >Any reason you're using spans instead of divs? Only that I thought they would stay inline instead of becoming block elements like DIV. I also tried DIV's, with the same result. From: "Joshua Olson" : >The floated element should be placed BEFORE the non-floated element. Thank you! That works great. And thanks for the extra credit answer, too. From: joe : >How about floating both? I swear I tried that, but I think now maybe my page was cached when I was trying to test it, so I just thought it wasn't working. From: Kasimir K : >"The element generates a block box that is floated ... "[1] >So that span no longer is inline element. Excellent! This is just what I was hoping for, not only showing me what works, but WHY what I was doing before wasn't working. Now my knowledge is complete. (At least in regards to this posting!) Thanks again to all! John Brooking, Application Developer Sappi Fine Paper -- This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From evolt at premonition.co.uk Tue May 11 08:12:56 2004 From: evolt at premonition.co.uk (Geoff Sheridan) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:12:56 +0100 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Message-ID: They should get an Apple iBook. If they are interested in audio recording they would be well advised to check out Apple's new consumer music sequencer, GarageBand. If they do a fair bit of consumer level music stuff they won't want to miss this. GarageBand is free with new macs, I'm off to get a MIDI keyboard to play with it more today! If DV is interesting to them they'll be very pleased with iMovie. Also free with a new Mac. PowerPoint is available for Mac. It is not free. The iBook is gorgeous and really quite reliable. Geoff At 8:54 am -0400 11/5/04, Dan McCullough wrote: >Here is what they need it for. Audio recording and burning, power point >presentations and a few other small things. They would also like to >possibly burn Digital Video. -- ------------------------------------------------------- Premonition Design Ltd http://www.premonition.co.uk/ East London, UK From evolt at mccullough-net.com Tue May 11 08:30:27 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:30:27 -0400 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Message-ID: <1084282227.40a0d5734ddaf@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Thats what we use now, but they seem to be pretty closed to the idea. I will try and get them to change their mind but that will be difficult. Any Windows laptop thoughts? Quoting Geoff Sheridan : > They should get an Apple iBook. > > If they are interested in audio recording they would be well advised > to check out Apple's new consumer music sequencer, GarageBand. If > they do a fair bit of consumer level music stuff they won't want to > miss this. > GarageBand is free with new macs, I'm off to get a MIDI keyboard to > play with it more today! > > If DV is interesting to them they'll be very pleased with iMovie. > Also free with a new Mac. > > PowerPoint is available for Mac. It is not free. > > The iBook is gorgeous and really quite reliable. > > Geoff > > > > At 8:54 am -0400 11/5/04, Dan McCullough wrote: > >Here is what they need it for. Audio recording and burning, power point > >presentations and a few other small things. They would also like to > >possibly burn Digital Video. > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------- > Premonition Design Ltd > http://www.premonition.co.uk/ > East London, UK > > -- > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From chris at londonweb.net Tue May 11 09:09:34 2004 From: chris at londonweb.net (Chris Hayes) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:09:34 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XPATH woes References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> <1084282227.40a0d5734ddaf@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <044a01c43761$97966db0$3800a8c0@herb.londonweb.net> Hi Looking for plain English help for this issue. I want to return a list of all the bob id's in the xml below. to return "1,2,3" Is there any XPATH to do this? Do you have any really good XPATH links to teach a novice. Ta From info at gwcreative.com Tue May 11 09:13:25 2004 From: info at gwcreative.com (Gregory Wostrel) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:13:25 -0400 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Message-ID: <5E0491B8-A355-11D8-84BD-000A95AFA060@gwcreative.com> On May 11, 2004, at 8:54am, Dan McCullough wrote: > Looking to purchase a laptop for someone else. Apple iBook or Powerbook. For your average user the iBook is by far the best option. The top of the line one has an option for a DVD-r/CDR,RW drive instead of the CD-R/RW, DVD ROM that is standard. Those iBooks are small, light, durable, good looking and have a lot of bang for the buck. Get as much memory as you can, though (but you probably know all about that sort of stuff.), you can go up to 1.25 gigs ram in them. Just don't buy it from Apple. You can get a better buy on the memory from almost anyone (even Staples!) and it is dead simple to put in. You, and they, won't be sorry. Command click (ctrl click on the PC) on the thumbnail in the layers palette to wrap everything on the layer in a selection marquee. Also, Command plus any of the arrow keys ( ctrl plus any arrow key on PCs) will snap a marquee to what ever shape it has been drawn around (as opposed to every shape on the layer). Just remember that you have also just nudged the object one pixel (or whatever your setting are). Gregory Wostrel gwcreative http://www.gwcreative.com/ gw at gwcreative.com 401.286.9228 Communications and the Art of Simplicity From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com Tue May 11 09:29:58 2004 From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:29:58 -0400 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: <1084282227.40a0d5734ddaf@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> <1084282227.40a0d5734ddaf@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <40A0E366.1080608@craftedsolutions.com> Look at Sony's VAIO line. The low-end one I got for client demos works pretty well. Came with 1394 and Memory Stick built in, so it easily integrates with my Sony camcorder. Make sure you check all the specs, because some desirable features (such as line-in in my case) may be missing on the lower end units. Can't complain; it was $750 after rebate and serves the client demo need just fine. Slap my wi-fi card in and I can do work from anywhere in the house. Norman --- Norman W. Bunn norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com 803.405.1008 ---------------------------------------------- www.CraftedSolutions.com Crafted Solutions, Inc. Web Design & Development Web Site Hosting & Custom Solutions "Get the results the Internet promises; get the 'Net Result' from Crafted Solutions!" ---------------------------------------------- evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > Thats what we use now, but they seem to be pretty closed to the idea. I will > try and get them to change their mind but that will be difficult. > > Any Windows laptop thoughts? > > > > Quoting Geoff Sheridan : > > >>They should get an Apple iBook. >> >>If they are interested in audio recording they would be well advised >>to check out Apple's new consumer music sequencer, GarageBand. If >>they do a fair bit of consumer level music stuff they won't want to >>miss this. >>GarageBand is free with new macs, I'm off to get a MIDI keyboard to >>play with it more today! >> >>If DV is interesting to them they'll be very pleased with iMovie. >>Also free with a new Mac. >> >>PowerPoint is available for Mac. It is not free. >> >>The iBook is gorgeous and really quite reliable. >> >>Geoff >> >> >> >>At 8:54 am -0400 11/5/04, Dan McCullough wrote: >> >>>Here is what they need it for. Audio recording and burning, power point >>>presentations and a few other small things. They would also like to >>>possibly burn Digital Video. >> >> >>-- >>------------------------------------------------------- >>Premonition Design Ltd >>http://www.premonition.co.uk/ >>East London, UK >> >>-- >>* * Please support the community that supports you. * * >>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ >> >>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester >>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org >>Workers of the Web, evolt ! >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Tue May 11 09:35:40 2004 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:35:40 -0700 Subject: [thelist] laptop purchase In-Reply-To: <11C78FF252EA2E448BF296DF41D25298C0D0@gh-mail1.gh.cbi.intl> Message-ID: <000101c43765$3d389740$6401a8c0@ed> FWIW, Dell and IBM have consistently gotten the top ratings in the product satisfaction and reliability surveys done in PC magazine. Apple & Toshiba did great this year, and I don't recall how they've done in the past. These are extensive surveys that look at how many times a machine goes into the shop, and how many users intend to buy that brand again. Regards, Ed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From mr.sanders at designshift.com Tue May 11 09:59:39 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:59:39 -0300 Subject: [thelist] RegExp - how to say "not this string" Message-ID: <40A0EA5B.9080109@designshift.com> My subject might not make much sense, but it's the best I could come up with to describe what I'm trying to figure out. I've been reading several different regular expressions tutorials, and haven't come across anything describing what I need. Maybe I just need a better tutorial; unfortunately, the Evolt one (http://evolt.org/article/thelist/20/22700/) didn't include the "not this string" concept I'm looking for. I've needed this in several instances, but here is my example for today... I am trying to do a batch find/replace in Homesite, using regexps. I want to grab all . The catch being that I have some headings with ColdFusion tags in them, so this regexp won't quite cut it: I know that ^x means not x - is there a way to specify "not this string"? Basically, what I want is something more like this: )) And what if I wanted to say "not this string or that string"? (For instance if I was trying to find all input tags *not* of type submit or reset.) Many thanks in advance :) Sarah From mr.sanders at designshift.com Tue May 11 10:02:59 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:02:59 -0300 Subject: [thelist] google and other search engines In-Reply-To: <09866EA1-A1AD-11D8-82A6-000D93295A8C@benjer.demon.co.uk> References: <09866EA1-A1AD-11D8-82A6-000D93295A8C@benjer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <40A0EB23.20301@designshift.com> > the following will help: > good keywords and description, > place all the external links from your flash app in a comment tag > put the copy from the flash site in a comment tag > use the noembed tag to insert structured (h1, p etc) html of the > important copy > > when you publish your flash file you should have the comment tags there > to update > ie > > A couple of questions about this: 1) Will search engines index content included in comment tags? 2) Wouldn't including content in the comments tags which doesn't also appear somewhere else in the site's visible content be considered "spamming", and be punished by the search engines? Sarah From joshua at waetech.com Tue May 11 10:13:44 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:13:44 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RegExp - how to say "not this string" In-Reply-To: <40A0EA5B.9080109@designshift.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah Sweeney > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:00 AM > > I know that ^x means not x - is there a way to specify "not this > string"? Basically, what I want is something more like this: > )) Sarah, I think you'll want a negative lookahead assert for this. If memory serves, CF does not support this syntax. Here's an example from a URL ReWrite engine: " For example you need to move all users not using Internet Explorer to the other location: RewriteCond User-Agent: (?!.*MSIE).* RewriteRule (.*) /nonie$1 " >From this example, you can derive how they work. http://www.regular-expressions.info/lookaround.html <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From John.Bedard at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:28:49 2004 From: John.Bedard at ngc.com (John.Bedard at ngc.com) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:28:49 -0600 Subject: [thelist] XPATH woes Message-ID: Don't think you can do this with a single statement. However, this should do it...

Also here is a decent quick reference for XPATH (among others) at this site, downloadable in PDF format: http://www.deepx.com/resources/quickref/ -----Original Message----- From: Chris Hayes [mailto:chris at londonweb.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:10 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] XPATH woes Hi Looking for plain English help for this issue. I want to return a list of all the bob id's in the xml below. to return "1,2,3" Is there any XPATH to do this? Do you have any really good XPATH links to teach a novice. Ta From cvos at netpaths.net Mon May 10 22:02:51 2004 From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:02:51 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Re: Is flash always bad - how Google deals with flash Message-ID: <20040510200251.bpz4wo000ww0go80@webmail.spamcop.net> I imagine you will find this a flash hostile list. For practicality, flash is diificult for normal users to use: print page rarely works you cannot email a user a link or send people to a specific page broken back button can be very slow on non broadband connections invisible to search engines can be difficult to update - only a flash programmer can make major changes http://ask-marketing-experts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24&highlight=flash > Does anyone out there have any suggestions or methods etc to improve > search > engine stuff for flash only websites. the following will help: good keywords and description, place all the external links from your flash app in a comment tag put the copy from the flash site in a comment tag use the noembed tag to insert structured (h1, p etc) html of the important copy when you publish your flash file you should have the comment tags there to update ie apart from building a text only version of the site, this seems to be the best you can do. ben Cayley Vos office: 310.372.3086 mobile: 310.220.9020 http://www.netpaths.net search engines | design | hosting | programming From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Tue May 11 10:34:34 2004 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:34:34 -0700 Subject: [thelist] google and other search engines In-Reply-To: <40A0EB23.20301@designshift.com> Message-ID: <000001c4376d$770fe5b0$6401a8c0@ed> > 1) Will search engines index content included in comment tags? No, nor will they index on meta keywords. > 2) Wouldn't including content in the comments tags which doesn't also > appear somewhere else in the site's visible content be considered > "spamming", and be punished by the search engines? I hope not. I use comments to document my code. If a browser is supposed to ignore them, so should any reasonable search engine. www.searchenginewatch.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From cjmeyer at npcc.net Tue May 11 10:39:10 2004 From: cjmeyer at npcc.net (Carl Meyer) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [thelist] RegExp - how to say "not this string" In-Reply-To: <40A0EA5B.9080109@designshift.com> Message-ID: hi Sarah, On Tue, 11 May 2004, Sarah Sweeney wrote: > I know that ^x means not x - is there a way to specify "not this > string"? Basically, what I want is something more like this: > )) This doesn't answer your question directly, but for the situation you describe I would simply use this regex: The ? makes the wildcard "non-greedy" - it matches as little as possible rather than as much as possible - so will match the first it finds. This should eliminate the need for the "not this string" match, unless I misunderstand your situation. I can't speak for Homesite's regex engine, but this syntax works in Perl and Emacs, the two environments where I use regexes. hth, Carl From skquinn at xevious.kicks-ass.net Tue May 11 11:57:04 2004 From: skquinn at xevious.kicks-ass.net (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:57:04 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Is flash always bad [was: google and other search engines] In-Reply-To: <409FE91A.8040600@kasimir-k.fi> References: <000101c435f7$72a7a480$6401a8c0@ed> <6.0.3.0.2.20040510110040.04e02570@mail.sound-by-design.com> <409FE91A.8040600@kasimir-k.fi> Message-ID: <200405111157.05545.skquinn@xevious.kicks-ass.net> On Monday 2004 May 10 15:42, Kasimir K wrote: > Allen Schaaf wrote: > > And this is where the hard work comes in, making an appealing > > entrance to your client's information. Information? I thought we > > were talking about Flash and other "enhancements" to the web? > > Not all information is textual. Some information can be expressed > only with animation, some requires synchronization of images and > audio. In these cases, flash is not an "appealing entrance" to > information, but the best tool to present it. There are always alternative ways of presenting the same information. For users on platforms where the Flash plug-in is not present, Flash will never be the "best tool" and alternatives are needed. There's so much garbage sent out with Flash, that it's often a better idea to block all of it and if the information is not there in a standard Web format, move on to the next site. > > Well, when you distill the functionality of the site to its > > essence, what you are providing is information that is intended to > > bring the potential consumer to the door of the nightclub, etc. The > > only real difference is the form in which the information is > > conveyed. And this brings us right to the nub of the question, form > > vs. function, or put another way, means vs. ends. > > True, it's this simple - as long as the purpose is to sell or bring > customers, and the site does it using text and images. Or actually > no, it's not that simple even then... if my client runs bussiness in > an obscure locatation, I might suggest using a flash-map, that the > users can zoom and move. A 25k flash-map is much better and > informative than a 100k gif (which would of course be provided as an > option). Though, 1k (tops) for the address in text form, along with something like "next to Taco Bell and Burger King" is often just as useful and is small enough to be used in addition to the Flash map. Actually, text format directions are not much heavier, and if the site author knows how to write directions well, will probably be even more informative. Believe me, if I'm trying to find out where a business is, and I get told "sorry, you don't have Flash, our map won't display", I will immediately go to the competition and I will probably wind up doing my business there. -- Shawn K. Quinn From chris at londonweb.net Tue May 11 11:48:13 2004 From: chris at londonweb.net (Chris Hayes) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:48:13 +0100 Subject: [thelist] DOMDocument - was XPATH woes References: Message-ID: <057401c43777$c4101240$3800a8c0@herb.londonweb.net> Thanks for that. My head's in a mess. My problem is with DOMDocument and XPATH. I should have been more specific. I'm still on an ASP job I posted about a while back. I'm really not the person for the job, but, I am the person on it :( I have the DOMDocument with the XML loaded ... ... to return "4,7,10" The id values can be any integer within a certain range. I can happily retrieve other XML values Set myVar=xmlDOMDOC.documentelement.selectSingleNode("elroot/abc/xyz") But I'm having problems with the random id's. I get an error if I try to retrieve a bob id that doesn't exist. I was hoping there was a magic solution. I'd need to know more to even make a useful google query. Any ideas oh wise ones? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] XPATH woes Don't think you can do this with a single statement. However, this should do it...

tags in the directory, so that I can add "sort by" links around the headings. So I need to get	, the heading (which I'll use in a back reference), and then	([^<]+)	(^(	(^(	(^(	(.*?)