[thelist] Looking for simple way to get JS statistics frommyvisitors.

[Ken Schaefer]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-
: bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Christian Heilmann
: Subject: Re: [thelist] Looking for simple way to get JS statistics
: frommyvisitors.
: 
: > As long as he/she is making an informed
: > decision, who are you to argue otherwise?
: 
: I took this very bad taste example, because it signifies the same
: ignorance on the subject of accessibility and the web. You offer
: without caring about the consequences.
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Did you miss the bit about making "informed choices"? There's one thing to
make a decision not being aware of the consequences. It's an entirely another
to make a decision being aware of the consequences. Baraphobia has already
stated that he/she is aware of the arguments either way.

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: Any time you offer some product or information it 
: also comes with a responsibility to make sure the 
: receiver gets it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Says who? If the state lays down a legal burden, or I take upon myself a
legal obligation (via contract), or have some ethical/moral responsibility
arising from a promise made, then "yes", I may have some responsibility to
the receiver. However just offering information entails no responsibility to
the world at large that any receiver should be able to receive it.

Information and products are much larger than what's available on the web.
Most products are not available everywhere in the world, and they're not
available to just anyone. So, unless you wish to start qualifying your
argument (e.g. you're talking about the web only), this argument's a
non-starter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: If I order a book, I assume it gets delivered
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would expect that you and the book seller enter into a contractual
arrangement here. You provide some consideration (usually cash), and in
return you receive a book. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: and I don't expect a message saying that they only 
: deliver to even numbered postcodes after
: I chose to buy the book.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If they attempt to do this after the contract has been sealed, then it's a
breach of contract. If they wish to do this as part of their terms, then
that's entirely up to them. You, as a free agent, are entitled to not to
agree to those terms, and shop somewhere else. The fact that the state has
not mandated delivery to odd-numbered postcodes speaks to the lack of paucity
of vendors willing to ship to said postcodes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: I also don't expect to see it just to be told
: in checkout after 5 steps that the book is not available.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the book shop values your custom, they will change their ordering
procedure. If they don't value your custom, there's no responsibility on them
to do so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: If I found great information  via a Search Engine or a link, 
: I don't expect to have to alter my technical environment to reach it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who cares what you think? If you want access to someone else's information,
you will have to do it on their terms. They do not need to bow to your
conditions. You are free to seek the information someplace else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: What is an informed decision in the case of the web? When you put a
: web site out there you simply do not know who will use it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rubbish. I can put something up for the sole use of myself. I can put
something up for the sole use of my friend (e.g. by requiring the use of
authentication/authorization). I can put information up for the sole use of
users of browsers with javascript enabled.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: That is the
: big advantage of the web, an unlimited audience. If you want to
: restrict your audience, make your information only available to
: members who have to sign in.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why? I can impose restrictions anyway I like if it's my website. It could
require an IP address from my company. Or it could be other users that share
the same ISP. Or it could be users who have flash. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Who are we to decide what to give people and who to block out from the
:  information?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, it's my information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: This is what the issue at hand is about. When I open a library, I need
: to make sure that disabled people can reach it.
: When I offer a service on the web, I cannot dictate anything lest I am
: willing to be seen (and sued) as someone who discriminates.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you're being successfully sued, it's because you're in breach of a legal
obligation. These obligations are spelt out in the laws of the land. This is
entirely different to a "responsibility" that you think you can impose upon
me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: I don't have to cater exclusively for the worst case scenario, but I can
: enhance the experience depending on what is available.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's your choice. I am free to make a different choice, unencumbered by
your notions of responsibility.

Cheers
Ken

--
www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/


 Web content is
: not a luxury item, that is only available to a chosen few. It is as
: plain as that.
: 
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: Chris Heilmann
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: Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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