[thelist] Financial Situation

[Martin Burns]

On 12 Dec 2008, at 03:53, UIT DEV wrote:

> You said "Pretty much all trades in construction are slashing their  
> rates
> right now, to get work in the door." and I do agree, however, these  
> same
> people are also going to get you on the way out the door.  They're not
> slashing much, if at all.  :-)   The turth is, the economics of the  
> issue is
> that we can not slash our prices and continue to put food on our  
> plates -
> the cost of food hasnt come down (along with the gas prices, WHICH,  
> was the
> reason given to us that food skyrocketed).  Hmm..    I've had  
> several home
> repair people in my house in the past month for various issues and  
> none have
> changed their rates.  When I asked them if they will, they say not at
> all.    I've also had the need to consult with an attorney and her  
> rates
> have not budged at all.  Nor shall they.

Which is fine, as long as they have the demand. When they don't have  
the demand, and yet continue to have their fixed costs, they will be  
faced with a choice: cut prices, or fail to pay their bills (aka 'give  
up and go do something else')

The law of supply & demand doesn't go away by wishing.

> Also,   " the quality of what we're producing is actually pretty  
> damned good
> - in some of our projects significantly outstripping teams that are  
> local -
> I think you're operating on hearsay rather than experience."
>
> I beg to differ.  I've personally had to correct tons of code that  
> has been
> developed by "teams in India"

Depends on who they are and how they are managed (which I believe was  
my original point). And I've seen piles of crap produced by people in  
developed countries too; to assume that because you're in a developed  
country, you're automatically going to be better is arrogant at best,  
blinkered on average, and outright insulting at worst.

And believe me, even if the initial quality is lower, getting it to  
the point of 'good enough' still costs a metric buttload less than  
paying your pie in the sky high wages. In an environment where costs  
are being squeezed across the board, assuming that you have a right to  
a job is no better than childish wishful thinking.

> Also, no one wants to admit that this outsourcing

psst - outsourcing != offshoring.

> The
> politicians wonder where the tax base went.  The economists wonder  
> where the
> jobs went.  No one wants to admit that we've destroyed our economy  
> by giving
> jobs away and placing highly skilled people onto the unemployment  
> lines.

*Sigh* again, we're talking as if those jobs are a permanent fixture  
that's yours by birthright. Your country managed without software jobs  
before. It managed when previously wellpaid jobs went to cheaper  
labour pools (not always overseas either), in cycles that repeated and  
repeated. It did so by inventing new stuff, rather than wishing for  
the old stuff back again.


> I am one of them.  Not only is my salary ZERO now, my tax revenue
> contribution to my State and to my country is ZERO.   My spending  
> power is
> ZERO.  My contribution to the local and regional economies - where I  
> used to
> be part of that stimulation of those economies, is ZERO.   And you can
> mulitply me by thousands.   This has a tremendous impact on our  
> nation but
> no one wants to discuss it.

All you're doing is complaining about it, Canute-like, without seeing  
that this has been a trend for many decades now. So when you're done  
talking about that river in Egypt[1], by all means come back and  
discuss it.

> So I am on my own and I am not going to charge $11/hr to develop  
> software
> when I used to get paid $44/hr, plus benefits and such.

Well, that's your choice. If the going rate is $11/hr, and you don't  
want it, fine. You can sit on your backside and wish for the old days  
instead. Won't bring them back, but hey, if it keeps you off the  
streets, on you go.

Cheers
Martin

[1] De-Ni[a]le
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