From harvester at lists.evolt.org Mon Jul 13 00:00:07 2009 From: harvester at lists.evolt.org (harvester at lists.evolt.org) Date: 13 Jul 2009 00:00:07 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Jul 06, 2009 Message-ID: <20090713050007.19160.qmail@tempest.evolt.org> The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Jul 06, 2009 has been added to the lists.evolt.org site. Get it at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/show.cgi?w=20090706 Week at a glance listing at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/week.cgi?w=20090706 Harvest Summary --------------- Number of messages: 68 Number of tips : 1 Tip Authors ----------- Volkan =D6z=E7elik (1) Tip Types --------- JavaScript (1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What: Tips are how a list subscriber "pays" for making an off-topic post to the list (see List Info for more information). Of course, this does not make off-topic posts acceptable. :) How : You include a tip in your posting by using the [tip]...[/tip] tag (replace the square brackets with angle brackets). The tip tag takes the optional attributes of 'type' and 'author'. From jim at nondifferentiable.com Mon Jul 13 01:08:04 2009 From: jim at nondifferentiable.com (Jim Puls) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:08:04 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <1247455479.6949.7.camel@dell> References: <2A24C94CC008463F91879A05B3FB1E8E@DEV> <4A573D01.5050507@gmail.com> <0E1E4F8D-9B2A-44D8-A5C6-78ADED6C8DC3@nondifferentiable.com> <1247455479.6949.7.camel@dell> Message-ID: <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> On Jul 12, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Viggie wrote: > I'm intrigued. How come the leading & greatly revered open source > apps, > like wordpress, drupal & joomla use only php instead of any of those > nicer development environments. Why the nicer development > environments > cannot produce better applications than these even though some of then > were around far longer than php. > > I'm ready to switch if there were any convincing proof rather than > mere > statements like these. Be careful not to conflate popularity with quality; surely you can understand that it's rare for anything in this business to gain traction based solely on its technical merits. I'm also not sure I'd agree with your characterization of WordPress as "greatly revered". Leading, perhaps, but it's the target of more security problems than just about any other web-hosted software package in history and the morass of plugins available for it lead to something so complex that consultants get full-time gigs just to configure it. But rather than letting this devolve in to the inevitable flamewar for which I would have to take full responsiblity, I might rather point out that my posting was based entirely on my highly subjective opinions of using various environments over several years and that you should form your own opinions. Remember, you can do equivalent tasks with any equivalently powerful tools; you'd be best served trying them out for yourself and experiencing their relative differences firsthand. -> jp From kate.007 at btinternet.com Mon Jul 13 02:47:48 2009 From: kate.007 at btinternet.com (Kate) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:47:48 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> References: <2A24C94CC008463F91879A05B3FB1E8E@DEV><4A573D01.5050507@gmail.com><0E1E4F8D-9B2A-44D8-A5C6-78ADED6C8DC3@nondifferentiable.com><1247455479.6949.7.camel@dell> <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: Mail is empty??? Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Puls" To: Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Server hacked? > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 4237 (20090712) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4237 (20090712) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From beertastic at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 07:09:41 2009 From: beertastic at gmail.com (Tris) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:09:41 +0100 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] strtotime not picking up mins and seconds...? Message-ID: <8b20a7490907130509l14493b66t8124a7d8a0c2f2d8@mail.gmail.com> Any ideas why: $myTimeStamp = strtotime ("15/07/2009 12:30:00"); gives an empty variable? PHP.net is not my friend today.. Tris... -- "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. Anon `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` Kurt Vonnegut `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.` Thomas Szasz From dan.p.burke at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 09:37:13 2009 From: dan.p.burke at gmail.com (Daniel Burke) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:07:13 +0930 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] strtotime not picking up mins and seconds...? In-Reply-To: <8b20a7490907130509l14493b66t8124a7d8a0c2f2d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b20a7490907130509l14493b66t8124a7d8a0c2f2d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's been a while so I could be way off, but could it be because you're using english date, as opposed to ISO date.... yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss regards, dan -- "It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on yourself." --Programming Perl 3rd Edition, end of first chapter. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Tris wrote: > Any ideas why: > $myTimeStamp = strtotime ("15/07/2009 12:30:00"); > > gives an empty variable? > PHP.net is not my friend today.. > > Tris... > > -- > "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" > > Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. > Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. > Anon > > `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` > Kurt Vonnegut > > `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others > to laugh at him.` > Thomas Szasz > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From matthiar at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 12:12:43 2009 From: matthiar at gmail.com (Matthias Ritzkowski) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:12:43 -0400 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] strtotime not picking up mins and seconds...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5B6B0B.3020303@gmail.com> Any ideas why: $myTimeStamp = strtotime ("15/07/2009 12:30:00"); I think PHP expects $myTimeStamp = strtotime ("15 July 2009 12:30:00 GMT"); regards Matthias > From pturmel-webdev at turmel.org Mon Jul 13 11:38:00 2009 From: pturmel-webdev at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:38:00 -0400 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] strtotime not picking up mins and seconds...? In-Reply-To: <8b20a7490907130509l14493b66t8124a7d8a0c2f2d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b20a7490907130509l14493b66t8124a7d8a0c2f2d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5B62E8.8040107@turmel.org> Tris wrote: > Any ideas why: > $myTimeStamp = strtotime ("15/07/2009 12:30:00"); > > gives an empty variable? > PHP.net is not my friend today.. > > Tris... > Hi Tris, Check the locale on the server in question... If php is running w/ default or US settings, month == 15 is not valid. HTH, Phil From bobm at dottedi.biz Mon Jul 13 14:35:29 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:35:29 -0600 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect Message-ID: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> what is the name of the function, also what is used to create a cascading menu system: 1) select vehicle type (car or truck) 2) if car, second menu dynamically lists: audi, jensen, mercury, pontiac, volkswagen 3) if select jensen, third menu dynamically changes to list jensen healey or jensen interceptor what is this called? language? javascript, mootools, jquery, ajax? From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 15:04:21 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:04:21 -0700 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > what is the name of the function, also what is used to create a > cascading menu system: > > 1) select vehicle type (car or truck) > 2) if car, second menu dynamically lists: audi, jensen, mercury, > pontiac, volkswagen > 3) if select jensen, third menu dynamically changes to list jensen > healey or jensen interceptor > > what is this called? I'd accept "cascading menu system" :-) > language? javascript, mootools, jquery, ajax? JavaScript is a programming language. MooTools and jQuery are two (of many!) JavaScript libraries. AJAX is an acronym referring to a particular use of JavaScript. In any case, yes, doing a menu like you describe client-side *without* a full page refresh requires JavaScript, though not necessarily any of the other three mentioned. HTH, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From nan at nanharbison.com Mon Jul 13 15:42:40 2009 From: nan at nanharbison.com (Nan Harbison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:42:40 -0400 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: I am not sure, but you might be thinking of suckerfish? Nan -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Bob Meetin Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:35 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect what is the name of the function, also what is used to create a cascading menu system: 1) select vehicle type (car or truck) 2) if car, second menu dynamically lists: audi, jensen, mercury, pontiac, volkswagen 3) if select jensen, third menu dynamically changes to list jensen healey or jensen interceptor what is this called? language? javascript, mootools, jquery, ajax? -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Mon Jul 13 15:32:54 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:32:54 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: OK, I'm going to have to call BS here. Oddly enough, the originator of this wee digression (a Mr Dan P. Burke) has since become very quiet (anyone for troll?) and although I'm sure we'd all get along fine in the same room, I have to take issue with some of your statements, Jim. 1. The original response (http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20090706/198317.html) bagged PHP for the reason that a) PHP is popular and hence b) not everyone writes good code when they are starting out. This argument can be extended to any programming / markup language which is new to someone. I can certainly state the my PHP, Javascript, HTML and CSS has markedly improved over the last 9 or so years. 2. In your response (http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20090706/198325.html ), Jim you stated: "Not that this question was directed at me, but I could suggest any of the following: - Java (Spring, Struts, JavaServer Faces) - .NET (ASP.NET MVC) - Perl (Catalyst, raw mod_perl) - Python (Django, Pylons, Zope, etc.) - Ruby (Rails, Merb, Sinatra) You can certainly write insecure code in any language, but any of these will give you a nicer development environment than PHP." You don't mention *better* languages, Jim, you mention _frameworks_ and (what I'd call) "helper packages" for other languages - an important distinction IMHO. This argument can be extended to _include_ PHP, as there are some fantastic frameworks[1][2][3][4], any of which will give you a better development environment, more productive programming, and improved security - basically true for any good framework for any programming language (web or not). 3. In your last statement, Jim, you state: " ...I might rather point out that my posting was based entirely on my highly subjective opinions of using various environments over several years and that you should form your own opinions. Remember, you can do equivalent tasks with any equivalently powerful tools; you'd be best served trying them out for yourself and experiencing their relative differences firsthand." Whch negates the point you tried to make earlier - that other languages will give you a "nicer development environment than PHP". I'm sorry, but I find it irritating when people make baseless, inflammatory statements and then try to walk away and place the burden of proof on others - that is intellectually dishonest. Play language wars all you like, but for both of you, your argument is moot. I personally think tips are owed ;) Paul [1] http://www.cakephp.org [2] http://www.codeigniter.com [3] http://www.silverstripe.org < a full featured CMS along with an MVC framework [4] http://www.drupal.org < a full featured, extensible CMS with modular architecture and a full API www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From bobm at dottedi.biz Mon Jul 13 15:58:53 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:58:53 -0600 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5BA00D.3040603@dottedi.biz> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > >> what is the name of the function, also what is used to create a >> cascading menu system: >> >> 1) select vehicle type (car or truck) >> 2) if car, second menu dynamically lists: audi, jensen, mercury, >> pontiac, volkswagen >> 3) if select jensen, third menu dynamically changes to list jensen >> healey or jensen interceptor >> >> what is this called? >> > > I'd accept "cascading menu system" :-) > > >> language? javascript, mootools, jquery, ajax? >> > > JavaScript is a programming language. > > MooTools and jQuery are two (of many!) JavaScript libraries. > > AJAX is an acronym referring to a particular use of JavaScript. > > In any case, yes, doing a menu like you describe client-side *without* > a full page refresh requires JavaScript, though not necessarily any of > the other three mentioned. > > HTH, > Maybe I should have said flavor of JavaScript, but that's it. I think either tirerack.com or nada.com use the function to get you going. Anyone on the list have a good reference link to the code or should I resort to google, which is fine. From ronr at linuxdude.com Mon Jul 13 16:20:38 2009 From: ronr at linuxdude.com (Ron) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:20:38 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5BA526.80302@linuxdude.com> The OP was either naive or a troll. Wondering how his server was hacked without a password points to the former. Most hacks happen without benefit of a password. Paul Bennett wrote: > OK, I'm going to have to call BS here. > > Oddly enough, the originator of this wee digression (a Mr Dan P. Burke) > has since become very quiet (anyone for troll?) and although I'm sure > we'd all get along fine in the same room, I have to take issue with some > of your statements, Jim. > > From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:41:53 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:41:53 -0700 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5BA00D.3040603@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> <4A5BA00D.3040603@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0907131441i6ecb5020s72a81671995be65a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > Anyone on the list have a good reference link to the code or should I > resort to google, which is fine. It's trivial code, I've done this myself many times. And if you're not yet a JS coder, this would be a good starter project :-) Probably the only interesting question is whether the arrays of choices are large enough to make fetching them via AJAX worthwhile, versus loading them all into memory up front. FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Mon Jul 13 16:29:38 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:29:38 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <4A5BA526.80302@linuxdude.com> Message-ID: > The OP was either naive or a troll. I have no comment on this and didn't make any reference to the original poster in my last response. My response was on no way directed at the OP, which in turn is a sure sign that the thread has been hijacked, which is the point I'm trying to address :) Paul -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 9:21 a.m. To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Server hacked? Wondering how his server was hacked without a password points to the former. Most hacks happen without benefit of a password. Paul Bennett wrote: > OK, I'm going to have to call BS here. > > Oddly enough, the originator of this wee digression (a Mr Dan P. Burke) > has since become very quiet (anyone for troll?) and although I'm sure > we'd all get along fine in the same room, I have to take issue with some > of your statements, Jim. > > -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From jim at nondifferentiable.com Mon Jul 13 16:34:18 2009 From: jim at nondifferentiable.com (Jim Puls) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:34:18 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Paul Bennett wrote: > - Java (Spring, Struts, JavaServer Faces) > - .NET (ASP.NET MVC) > - Perl (Catalyst, raw mod_perl) > - Python (Django, Pylons, Zope, etc.) > - Ruby (Rails, Merb, Sinatra) > > You can certainly write insecure code in any language, but any of > these will give you a nicer development environment than PHP." > > You don't mention *better* languages, Jim, you mention _frameworks_ > and > (what I'd call) "helper packages" for other languages - an important > distinction IMHO. Java, Perl, Python, and Ruby are languages. They're all better languages than PHP. Sorry if I was equivocal. > This argument can be extended to _include_ PHP, as there are some > fantastic frameworks[1][2][3][4], any of which will give you a better > development environment, more productive programming, and improved > security - basically true for any good framework for any programming > language (web or not). Perhaps, though I hasten to point out that my personal convictions about PHP are only galvanized by my own professional experience using CakePHP. The phrase that comes to mind is "lipstick on a pig", though I suppose that's a little 2008 at this point; CakePHP in particular takes a bad situation and makes it worse. > 3. In your last statement, Jim, you state: > > " ...I might rather point > out that my posting was based entirely on my highly subjective > opinions of using various environments over several years and that you > should form your own opinions. Remember, you can do equivalent tasks > with any equivalently powerful tools; you'd be best served trying them > out for yourself and experiencing their relative differences > firsthand." > > Whch negates the point you tried to make earlier - that other > languages > will give you a "nicer development environment than PHP". I'm sorry, > but I find it irritating when people make baseless, inflammatory > statements and then try to walk away and place the burden of proof on > others - that is intellectually dishonest. Inflammatory? Certainly. Baseless? It's a statement of opinion. Nowhere did I try to pass off my opinion as fact; indeed, the entire point of that paragraph was to underscore how, as in all technology debates, your mileage may vary. > Play language wars all you like, but for both of you, your argument is > moot. As is yours, if you think this is anything more than the latest rehash of the oldest argument on the Internet. -> jp From ronr at linuxdude.com Mon Jul 13 17:18:31 2009 From: ronr at linuxdude.com (Ron) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:18:31 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5BB2B7.4@linuxdude.com> Opps, my mistake. I've been trying to ignore this thread because it digressed real fast :-) Hence, I didn't read you post very well. Paul Bennett wrote: >> The OP was either naive or a troll. >> > > I have no comment on this and didn't make any reference to the original > poster in my last response. > My response was on no way directed at the OP, which in turn is a sure > sign that the thread has been hijacked, which is the point I'm trying to > address :) > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Ron > Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 9:21 a.m. > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Server hacked? > > Wondering how his server was hacked without a password points to the > former. > Most hacks happen without benefit of a password. > > > Paul Bennett wrote: > >> OK, I'm going to have to call BS here. >> >> Oddly enough, the originator of this wee digression (a Mr Dan P. >> > Burke) > >> has since become very quiet (anyone for troll?) and although I'm sure >> we'd all get along fine in the same room, I have to take issue with >> > some > >> of your statements, Jim. >> >> >> > > From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Mon Jul 13 18:04:05 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:04:05 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: Sorry Jim, the attachment containing all the empirical evidence which you base your opinions on seems to have been stripped out of your last message. I also have a few programming language opinions of my own based upon little more than cursory experience with a variety of technologies; however I choose to keep them off list. This is mainly because I choose to not insult the intelligent, talented people who can wield those technologies with skills far beyond my own. Regards, Paul www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From bobm at dottedi.biz Mon Jul 13 20:01:09 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:01:09 -0600 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0907131441i6ecb5020s72a81671995be65a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> <4A5BA00D.3040603@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131441i6ecb5020s72a81671995be65a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5BD8D5.3080106@dottedi.biz> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > >> Anyone on the list have a good reference link to the code or should I >> resort to google, which is fine >> It's trivial code, I've done this myself many times. And if you're not >> yet a JS coder, this would be a good starter project :-) >> >> Probably the only interesting question is whether the arrays of choices >> are large enough to make fetching them via AJAX worthwhile, versus >> loading them all into memory up front. >> >> FWIW, >> I found a link to some javascript that works: http://www.javascriptkit.com/javatutors/selectcontent2.shtml >> David, why were you suggesting that these are less than user-appreciated? From david at chelseacreekstudio.com Mon Jul 13 20:17:44 2009 From: david at chelseacreekstudio.com (David Laakso) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:17:44 -0400 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5BD8D5.3080106@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131304j32e3690bn205b802c735da808@mail.gmail.com> <4A5BA00D.3040603@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0907131441i6ecb5020s72a81671995be65a@mail.gmail.com> <4A5BD8D5.3080106@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4A5BDCB8.7060007@chelseacreekstudio.com> Bob Meetin wrote: > > David, why were you suggesting that these are less than user-appreciated? > Anything is possible. Including dropdown/flyout menus that meet user readability, functionality, usability, and accessibility needs. FWIW: From dan.p.burke at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 20:30:30 2009 From: dan.p.burke at gmail.com (Daniel Burke) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:00:30 +0930 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: References: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: Wasn't intentionally trolling, but once I realised I'd let the cat out of the bag I figured it was best to wait out the storm. +1 re: Ron's comment about OP. From david at chelseacreekstudio.com Mon Jul 13 16:44:53 2009 From: david at chelseacreekstudio.com (David Laakso) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:44:53 -0400 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4A5BAAD5.1030308@chelseacreekstudio.com> Bob Meetin wrote: > what is the name of the function, also what is used to create a > cascading menu system: > > dropdowns and flyouts (as known as really p... -off users) From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 22:04:06 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:04:06 -0700 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5BAAD5.1030308@chelseacreekstudio.com> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4A5BAAD5.1030308@chelseacreekstudio.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0907132004k79ca9978p3ddc872e0f6756dd@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM, David Laakso wrote: > dropdowns and flyouts > > (as known as really p... -off users) I only glanced at one of the sites Bob mentioned, but the usage was *not* a *navigational* menu but a dynamic selection form, which I've never heard anyone complain about. But maybe I missed that. :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From david at chelseacreekstudio.com Mon Jul 13 23:15:59 2009 From: david at chelseacreekstudio.com (David Laakso) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:15:59 -0400 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0907132004k79ca9978p3ddc872e0f6756dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4A5BAAD5.1030308@chelseacreekstudio.com> <4eedb92a0907132004k79ca9978p3ddc872e0f6756dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5C067F.3050206@chelseacreekstudio.com> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM, David > Laakso wrote: > > >> dropdowns and flyouts >> >> (as known as really p... -off users) >> > > I only glanced at one of the sites Bob mentioned, but the usage was > *not* a *navigational* menu but a dynamic selection form, which I've > never heard anyone complain about. But maybe I missed that. :-) > > Easy for you, Leonardo. The rest of us just hang around for laughs. From viggie at viggie.com Tue Jul 14 02:09:29 2009 From: viggie at viggie.com (Viggie) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:39:29 +0530 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> References: <2A24C94CC008463F91879A05B3FB1E8E@DEV> <4A573D01.5050507@gmail.com> <0E1E4F8D-9B2A-44D8-A5C6-78ADED6C8DC3@nondifferentiable.com> <1247455479.6949.7.camel@dell> <78598978-E550-4F46-A2E6-6739C8401A11@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: <1247555369.6960.81.camel@dell> On Sun, 2009-07-12 at 23:08 -0700, Jim Puls wrote: > Be careful not to conflate popularity with quality; surely you can > understand that it's rare for anything in this business to gain > traction based solely on its technical merits. > > I'm also not sure I'd agree with your characterization of WordPress as > "greatly revered". Leading, perhaps, but it's the target of more > security problems than just about any other web-hosted software > package in history and the morass of plugins available for it lead to > something so complex that consultants get full-time gigs just to > configure it. > > But rather than letting this devolve in to the inevitable flamewar for > which I would have to take full responsiblity, I might rather point > out that my posting was based entirely on my highly subjective > opinions of using various environments over several years and that you > should form your own opinions. Remember, you can do equivalent tasks > with any equivalently powerful tools; you'd be best served trying them > out for yourself and experiencing their relative differences firsthand. > > -> jp Hi Jim, Thanks for the clarifications. I'm also not looking for flaming. Wordpress is 'greatly revered' by it's users, not necessarily with technical background. Particularly by the people who are obsessed with SEO & bloggers who intend to make money through blogging. It's rare to find open source apps that scores on usability as well. With the plugins that are too easy to add without verifications, it is quite natural to have security concerns. I think the same security concern will be there even if wordpress was made in other platforms I do have exposure in Perl, Python & Ruby on rails. Among them I personally like Python & the ability to create standalone apps. Google, Yahoo groups & You tube are known to use python for intensive applications. But I'm intrigued why no applications from the superior environments is there even in the horizon to rival popular apps like Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, SugarCRM, Moodle etc. Or do I overlook them? Also, should we go for php for smaller projects & use Perl/Python/Ruby if the project demands at least a dedicated server? best regards, viggie From lee.kowalkowski at googlemail.com Tue Jul 14 05:05:14 2009 From: lee.kowalkowski at googlemail.com (Lee Kowalkowski) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:05:14 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? In-Reply-To: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> References: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> Message-ID: <610592c90907140305q749ccef8hafac356c6809b306@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/13 Jim Puls : > > Java, Perl, Python, and Ruby are languages. They're all better > languages than PHP. Sorry if I was equivocal. Stop it now! There are different types of languages. PHP is more comparable with JSP than Java in my opinion. "Better" depends on requirements. Sometimes you just don't need umpteen layers of abstraction. -- Lee (Sun Certified Java Programmer, PHP enthusiast) From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Jul 14 07:58:45 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:58:45 -0600 Subject: [thelist] name of function / cascading menu effect In-Reply-To: <4A5C067F.3050206@chelseacreekstudio.com> References: <4A5B8C81.2030708@dottedi.biz> <4A5BAAD5.1030308@chelseacreekstudio.com> <4eedb92a0907132004k79ca9978p3ddc872e0f6756dd@mail.gmail.com> <4A5C067F.3050206@chelseacreekstudio.com> Message-ID: <4A5C8105.4030807@dottedi.biz> > >>> dropdowns and flyouts >>> >>> (as known as really p... -off users) >>> >>> >> I only glanced at one of the sites Bob mentioned, but the usage was >> *not* a *navigational* menu but a dynamic selection form, which I've >> never heard anyone complain about. But maybe I missed that. :-) >> >> Easy for you, Leonardo. The rest of us just hang around for laughs. >> Well all that being said the problem is solved. "Dynamic selection form", dynamic selection list" was what I was chasing. Half the battle is being able to describe the battle in battle-friendly terms. :) From dan at danromanchik.com Tue Jul 14 07:28:55 2009 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:28:55 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Setting Up a New Wiki Message-ID: I'm going to be setting up a wiki for an amateur radio project that I'm working on. The end product is going to be an online study guide for the Amateur Extra Class license examination. I've used pmwiki in the past, and I like it, but am just wondering if there's something else out there that I should be considering. Here are a few considerations: * I'm PHP guy, so would prefer that it be programmed in PHP * Would like to be able to restrict who can author/edit, but want everyone to be able to read it. * WYSIWYG editing preferred, but could probably do with the wiki markup language. (I don't want potential authors to have to jump through learning curve hoops.) * Image upload would be a nice feature to have. That's all I can think of for now........ Thanks in advance, Dan Romanchik From sarahwbs at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 08:06:47 2009 From: sarahwbs at gmail.com (Sarah Adams) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:06:47 -0300 Subject: [thelist] Setting Up a New Wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5C82E7.1000501@gmail.com> Dan Romanchik wrote: > I'm going to be setting up a wiki for an amateur radio project that > I'm working on. The end product is going to be an online study guide > for the Amateur Extra Class license examination. > > I've used pmwiki in the past, and I like it, but am just wondering if > there's something else out there that I should be considering. Here > are a few considerations: > > * I'm PHP guy, so would prefer that it be programmed in PHP > * Would like to be able to restrict who can author/edit, but want > everyone to be able to read it. > * WYSIWYG editing preferred, but could probably do with the wiki > markup language. (I don't want potential authors to have to jump > through learning curve hoops.) > * Image upload would be a nice feature to have. My first question is, what is is about a wiki that you like for this project? -- sarah adams web developer & programmer http://sarah.designshift.com From dan at danromanchik.com Tue Jul 14 09:21:37 2009 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:21:37 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Setting Up a New Wiki In-Reply-To: <4A5C82E7.1000501@gmail.com> References: <4A5C82E7.1000501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <173272B2-C6A6-4F5F-A072-02B6D32CFBD9@danromanchik.com> On Jul 14, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Sarah Adams wrote: > Dan Romanchik wrote: >> I'm going to be setting up a wiki for an amateur radio project that >> I'm working on. The end product is going to be an online study guide >> for the Amateur Extra Class license examination. >> >> I've used pmwiki in the past, and I like it, but am just wondering if >> there's something else out there that I should be considering. Here >> are a few considerations: >> >> * I'm PHP guy, so would prefer that it be programmed in PHP >> * Would like to be able to restrict who can author/edit, but want >> everyone to be able to read it. >> * WYSIWYG editing preferred, but could probably do with the wiki >> markup language. (I don't want potential authors to have to jump >> through learning curve hoops.) >> * Image upload would be a nice feature to have. > > My first question is, what is is about a wiki that you like for this > project? > > -- > sarah adams > web developer & programmer > http://sarah.designshift.com It's going to be a collaborative project. I expect to have a dozen or more "author/editors" who will take responsibility for various sections. Dan Romanchik www.webpublishinggroup.com From matt at ledeir.com Tue Jul 14 13:34:30 2009 From: matt at ledeir.com (mriedel) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:34:30 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Server hacked? References: <5E58D271-4106-4A37-A74A-F8950785FAB1@nondifferentiable.com> <610592c90907140305q749ccef8hafac356c6809b306@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901ca04b1$bd56b820$cf810d48@fredeee> >> Java, Perl, Python, and Ruby are languages. They're all better >> languages than PHP. Sorry if I was equivocal. "Better" programming languages are much like "better" regional languages. Is English better than French? Is German better than both of them? It all depends on your environment and context. Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Kowalkowski" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:05 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Server hacked? > 2009/7/13 Jim Puls : >> >> Java, Perl, Python, and Ruby are languages. They're all better >> languages than PHP. Sorry if I was equivocal. > > Stop it now! There are different types of languages. PHP is more > comparable with JSP than Java in my opinion. "Better" depends on > requirements. > > Sometimes you just don't need umpteen layers of abstraction. > > -- > Lee > (Sun Certified Java Programmer, PHP enthusiast) > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From david at gigawatt.com Tue Jul 14 23:23:41 2009 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:23:41 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Newsletter Mailer Recommendations In-Reply-To: <01f901ca018e$8b831d50$a28957f0$@com> References: <01f901ca018e$8b831d50$a28957f0$@com> Message-ID: <4A5D59CD.9030307@gigawatt.com> Hi Heidi, Heidi Faith wrote: > I have a client who is a non-profit organization with 15K members. The > mailings would be 2-4 times a month. They can't spend a lot $ and I am > overwhelmed with all the options out there. One word: campaignmonitor.com (or is that two, ...three? is "dot" a word?) -dave From Joel at BizBa6.com Wed Jul 15 01:04:51 2009 From: Joel at BizBa6.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:04:51 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Newsletter Mailer Recommendations References: <01f901ca018e$8b831d50$a28957f0$@com> <4A5D59CD.9030307@gigawatt.com> Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4021F9433@ireland.spinhead.com> > One word: campaignmonitor.com I'll second that one word > (or is that two, ...three? is "dot" a word?) great; now we've got fourths, sixths, and some exponential something-or-other good tool, pretty easy to use, fair price, reasonable people on the admin and tech support teams. I am devilishly difficult to please, but Campaign Monitor is my first choice. joel From fredthejonester at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 05:45:12 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:45:12 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Newsletter Mailer Recommendations In-Reply-To: <01f901ca018e$8b831d50$a28957f0$@com> References: <01f901ca018e$8b831d50$a28957f0$@com> Message-ID: <177c0a10907150345u51961e72pc290b2e7926f852c@mail.gmail.com> > I have a client who is a non-profit organization with 15K members. The > mailings would be 2-4 times a month. They can't spend a lot $ and I am > overwhelmed with all the options out there. They are on a Linux server and I > have the option to use phplist but am wondering how secure it would be and > ease to setup and use. The client is on a shared server so would need to > queue/batch mailings. > Any input and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Checkout CiviCRM and MadMimi. We have a module to connect them actually--a Drupal module which sends your CiviCRM constituency list to MadMimi's API to keep then synched. :) F From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Jul 16 16:20:24 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:20:24 -0600 Subject: [thelist] domain registration - general rule Message-ID: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> I commonly have client hopefuls talk with me about moving their accounts, their domains, etc. An unfortunate common problem comes in that they had their tech person register the domain for them and of course they were not afforded the username/password to the domain registrar. When relationships go south and its time to move on they find the domain is not only listed in the name of their wanna be x-tech, but of course they are being held hostage for one reason or another. Recourse or suggestions? -- Bob From dan.p.burke at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 22:46:01 2009 From: dan.p.burke at gmail.com (Daniel Burke) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:16:01 +0930 Subject: [thelist] domain registration - general rule In-Reply-To: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: In Australia (for .au domains at least), this is easy fixed. You say "Give me the domain name or I'll take you to court have it given to me, plus costs & loss of business". I think you can even go to the registrar with your business certificate and ask nicely, and they'll just do it for you. Of course though, here until recently you needed to have a registered business to get a .com.au, and it had to relate to your registered business name (or one of your trade marks, that you actively protect). It still stands that if you have a business, and someone has your domain, you can take it easily. Although we have very harsh anti-cyber squatting laws. For .com, you have no legal recourse. All you can do is rely on your local laws, hopefully you have a receipt stating that you purchased the domain name, and are not renting or leasing it. regards, dan -- "It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on yourself." --Programming Perl 3rd Edition, end of first chapter. On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Bob Meetin wrote: > I commonly have client hopefuls talk with me about moving their > accounts, their domains, etc. ?An unfortunate common problem comes in > that they had their tech person register the domain for them and of > course they were not afforded the username/password to the domain > registrar. > > When relationships go south and its time to move on they find the domain > is not only listed in the name of their wanna be x-tech, but of course > they are being held hostage for one reason or another. > > Recourse or suggestions? > > -- > Bob > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Jul 16 23:06:27 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:06:27 -0600 Subject: [thelist] domain registration - general rule In-Reply-To: References: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4A5FF8C3.10300@dottedi.biz> Daniel Burke wrote: > In Australia (for .au domains at least), this is easy fixed. You say > "Give me the domain name or I'll take you to court have it given to > me, plus costs & loss of business". I think you can even go to the > registrar with your business certificate and ask nicely, and they'll > just do it for you. > > Of course though, here until recently you needed to have a registered > business to get a .com.au, and it had to relate to your registered > business name (or one of your trade marks, that you actively protect). > It still stands that if you have a business, and someone has your > domain, you can take it easily. > > Although we have very harsh anti-cyber squatting laws. For .com, you > have no legal recourse. All you can do is rely on your local laws, > hopefully you have a receipt stating that you purchased the domain > name, and are not renting or leasing it. > > regards, > > dan > -->> The soon to be X tech person is giving the business owner a hard time, it's a control fit - moving to Australia is not yet a solution. I believe the tech guy probably registered the domain on behalf of the not technically inclined business owner, you know, as a favor... <<-- From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Jul 16 23:22:05 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:22:05 -0600 Subject: [thelist] mysql pattern matching query Message-ID: <4A5FFC6D.2090703@dottedi.biz> Example fields in the database: username name Some folks register for accounts using a username that is like or actually equal to their first or last name. I tried something like: mysql> select id, name, username from users where name like '%username%'; which of course returns NULL because it is trying to match the word, username, rather than the username field. Q1: How do you tell mysql to match the field value? You will occasionally see folks who register with an identical first and last name like "Mary Mary" mysql> select id, name, username from users where name like '%username username%'; Q2: Similar to Q1 but will find members who lazily use the same username, first name and last name? mysql> select id, name, username from users where lower(name) like lower('%username%'); Q3: Will something like the above work to convert and match in lower case? -Bob From rudy at r937.com Thu Jul 16 23:42:54 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:42:54 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mysql pattern matching query Message-ID: <16367A580795480CB28D6A7B5E4F8A35@curly> SELECT ... FROM users WHERE name LIKE CONCAT('%',username,'%') ;o) rudy http://simply-sql.com/ From bobm at dottedi.biz Fri Jul 17 00:07:52 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:07:52 -0600 Subject: [thelist] mysql pattern matching query In-Reply-To: <16367A580795480CB28D6A7B5E4F8A35@curly> References: <16367A580795480CB28D6A7B5E4F8A35@curly> Message-ID: <4A600728.90006@dottedi.biz> r937 wrote: > SELECT ... > FROM users > WHERE name LIKE CONCAT('%',username,'%') > > ;o) > > > rudy > http://simply-sql.com which masterfully leads to the answer to Q3: mysql> select name, username, email from users where name like CONCAT('%',username,' ',username,'%'); Thanks Rudy - Bob From rjmolesa at consoltec.net Fri Jul 17 07:55:20 2009 From: rjmolesa at consoltec.net (Jon Molesa) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:55:20 -0400 Subject: [thelist] domain registration - general rule In-Reply-To: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> References: <4A5F9998.1020207@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <20090717125520.GG20732@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> I don't know anything about this company other than they came up 1st in a G search. Have you considered something like http://www.safenames.net/brandprotection/domainretrieval.aspx There are other companies that I've seen recently that help with your specific situation. This service doesn't fit exactly, but I suppose he could at this point be viewed as a squatter. *On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:20:24PM -0600 Bob Meetin wrote: > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:20:24 -0600 > From: Bob Meetin > Subject: [thelist] domain registration - general rule > To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" > > I commonly have client hopefuls talk with me about moving their > accounts, their domains, etc. An unfortunate common problem comes in > that they had their tech person register the domain for them and of > course they were not afforded the username/password to the domain > registrar. > > When relationships go south and its time to move on they find the domain > is not only listed in the name of their wanna be x-tech, but of course > they are being held hostage for one reason or another. > > Recourse or suggestions? > > -- > Bob > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Jon Molesa rjmolesa at consoltec.net if you're bored or curious http://rjmolesa.com From Susan.Payne at cpa.state.tx.us Fri Jul 17 12:49:26 2009 From: Susan.Payne at cpa.state.tx.us (Susan Payne) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:49:26 -0500 Subject: [thelist] list question Message-ID: Can a list have only one item? Is it truly a list at this point? In my example there's a page with a department's responsibilities, each listing details (as a ul) of that responsibility. Example What this dept. does: Train agency staff * Teaches system-specific and policy administration classes that help designated agency personnel understand systems functionality and the policies behind those systems. * Teaches year-end classes to help agencies roll their data to the new fiscal year or complete their calendar year-end reporting. * Teaches specialized classes by request. Define and disseminate policies and procedures * Drafts rules for state payroll and personnel administration and related policies agencies must follow. The Legislature gives our agency rule-making authority for specific statutes. A list is a list is a list, right? If you have a to-do-list but only one thing on it, does it cease to be a list? Then do you have a to-do paragraph? A writer here asked to 'remove the bullet' as there was only one. I suspect she's coming from more of a formatting standpoint and I'm thinking more semantically. I feel the last bullet shouldn't be a paragraph b/c it's still a listing of details on that item. And getting more complicated. . .the subheaders (train agency staff) are h3s and should probably be list items as well, huh? What a mess. Susan Payne Website Administrator | susan.payne at cpa.state.tx.us | 512-463-7639 Fiscal Information | Fiscal Management | Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts From julian.rickards at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 15:54:27 2009 From: julian.rickards at gmail.com (Julian Rickards) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:54:27 -0400 Subject: [thelist] list question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7613e9690907171354v8c65f66uf0025cf59b590c7c@mail.gmail.com> I wish my wif'e's To Do lists contained only one item. In your example, which was a very good one, I believe that a list can contain one item because as you showed, other lists on the page contained more than one item so I think it is perfectly fine that one particular list contained only one item. However, if all lists contained just one item, then I believe another arrangement (heading/paragraph) should be used instead. In this case, it leaves the option open for adding other items as needed. My 2 cents, Jules 2009/7/17 Susan Payne > Can a list have only one item? Is it truly a list at this point? In my > example there's a page with a department's responsibilities, each > listing details (as a ul) of that responsibility. Example > > > > What this dept. does: > > Train agency staff > > * Teaches system-specific and policy administration classes that > help designated agency personnel understand systems functionality and > the policies behind those systems. > * Teaches year-end classes to help agencies roll their data to the > new fiscal year or complete their calendar year-end reporting. > * Teaches specialized classes by request. > > Define and disseminate policies and procedures > > * Drafts rules for state payroll and personnel administration and > related policies agencies must follow. The Legislature gives our agency > rule-making authority for specific statutes. > > > > A list is a list is a list, right? If you have a to-do-list but only one > thing on it, does it cease to be a list? Then do you have a to-do > paragraph? A writer here asked to 'remove the bullet' as there was only > one. I suspect she's coming from more of a formatting standpoint and I'm > thinking more semantically. I feel the last bullet shouldn't be a > paragraph b/c it's still a listing of details on that item. > > > > And getting more complicated. . .the subheaders (train agency staff) are > h3s and should probably be list items as well, huh? > > > > What a mess. > > > > Susan Payne > > > > Website Administrator | susan.payne at cpa.state.tx.us | 512-463-7639 > > Fiscal Information | Fiscal Management | Texas Comptroller of Public > Accounts > > > > > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- E-mail: julian dot rickards at gmail dot com From david at chelseacreekstudio.com Fri Jul 17 16:49:28 2009 From: david at chelseacreekstudio.com (David Laakso) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:49:28 -0400 Subject: [thelist] list question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A60F1E8.9010107@chelseacreekstudio.com> Susan Payne wrote: > Can a list have only one item? Is it truly a list at this point? In my > example there's a page with a department's responsibilities, each > listing details (as a ul) of that responsibility. Example > > Yes, but... lists are best used when there are just few words in each item. It looks to me as though what you have would best be set as a heading and p. From willthemoor at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 11:36:18 2009 From: willthemoor at gmail.com (Will) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:36:18 -0700 Subject: [thelist] list question In-Reply-To: <4A60F1E8.9010107@chelseacreekstudio.com> References: <4A60F1E8.9010107@chelseacreekstudio.com> Message-ID: <2506fbd50907180936k11af56ceo6a0a3d444892236d@mail.gmail.com> man, I've been trying to cook up an example as good as "if a todo list only has one item on it, it's still a todo list" for years. thank you! absolutely a list can have only one item - especially if it's semantically the same as other lists on the page but just happens to contain one li. changing just one of content blocks to h3/p makes no sense from the document structure point of view. The 'should the headings also be a list' is just about when you want to draw the line. Tantek did his blog years ago as nothing but ever nested lists to prove just that point. There's merit in it but you also have to be able to realistically manage your document(s). you could perhaps please the grumpybot with a bit of JS that looks for lists with only one item and removes the bullet. I reckon they should just get over it though. On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:49 PM, David Laakso wrote: > Susan Payne wrote: >> Can a list have only one item? Is it truly a list at this point? In my >> example there's ?a page with a department's responsibilities, each >> listing details (as a ul) ?of that responsibility. Example >> >> > > > > > > Yes, but... lists are best used when there are just few words in each item. > > It looks to me as though what you have would best be set as a heading and p. > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From dwayne.conyers at hp.com Sun Jul 19 14:56:17 2009 From: dwayne.conyers at hp.com (Conyers, Dwayne) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:56:17 +0000 Subject: [thelist] list question In-Reply-To: <7613e9690907171354v8c65f66uf0025cf59b590c7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7613e9690907171354v8c65f66uf0025cf59b590c7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <769907F0D19EFA45BD6F04FC6E896D6D1EEF4CE2AB@GVW0538EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> Julian Rickards delineated: > I wish my wif'e's To Do lists > contained only one item. Never been married... but I would imagine husbands also get to create to do lists? If so... they would typically contain only one item. -- I made magic once. Now, the sofa is gone. http://blog.dwacon.com http://www.twitter.com/dwacon From bobm at dottedi.biz Sun Jul 19 16:01:35 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:01:35 -0600 Subject: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file Message-ID: <4A6389AF.8070808@dottedi.biz> $file = "/var/www/some_username/httpdocs/survey.csv"; // the path is accurate if (! file_exists( $file )) { $doit = fopen("$file", "w"); } $fp = fopen("$file", "a+"); $label = "some text" fwrite($fp, "$label|"); fwrite($fp, "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"); // just to see... Thhe above looks to me that it should work, however of course it doesn't so I tried a couple things like the following in the PHP script: system ("touch $file"); // it just stares back at me So I ftp a one liner file to the website and: chmod ("$file", 0666); // this does nothing to update perms system ("ls -l $file"); // this lists the file and perms system ("chmod 666 $file"); // this also does nothing I'm thinking this must be a probelm with how the "UNIX/Linux" webserver is set up, so I ftp a phpinfo() file to the server What would they have done with apache/php.ini to prevent file creation, and if so what should I be looking for? -- Bob From bobm at dottedi.biz Sun Jul 19 19:34:00 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:34:00 -0600 Subject: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file - solved In-Reply-To: <15747E55-34BE-4315-B2D6-0EE566FD55AF@gmail.com> References: <4A6389AF.8070808@dottedi.biz> <15747E55-34BE-4315-B2D6-0EE566FD55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A63BB78.30106@dottedi.biz> Dave Stevens wrote: > Maybe the directory doesn't have wrote permissions? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 19 Jul 2009, at 17:01, Bob Meetin wrote: > >> $file = "/var/www/some_username/httpdocs/survey.csv"; // the path is >> accurate >> >> if (! file_exists( $file )) { $doit = fopen("$file", "w"); } >> $fp = fopen("$file", "a+"); >> $label = "some text" >> fwrite($fp, "$label|"); >> fwrite($fp, "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"); // just to see... >> >> Thhe above looks to me that it should work, however of course it doesn't >> so I tried a couple things like the following in the PHP script: >> >> system ("touch $file"); // it just stares back at me >> >> So I ftp a one liner file to the website and: >> >> chmod ("$file", 0666); // this does nothing to update perms >> >> system ("ls -l $file"); // this lists the file and perms >> >> system ("chmod 666 $file"); // this also does nothing >> >> I'm thinking this must be a probelm with how the "UNIX/Linux" webserver >> is set up, so I ftp a phpinfo() file to the server What would they have >> done with apache/php.ini to prevent file creation, and if so what should >> I be looking for? >> >> -- >> Bob0: -->> that was a hint, but not the directory; I forgot that through FTP you can not only look at but change file permissions. The httpdocs directory is 750: drwxr-x--- 19 rvcftp psaserv 12288 Jul 19 11:49 httpdocs And the file was what it normally should be, 644, to write to files: -rw-r--r-- 1 rvcftp psacln 816 Jul 19 17:26 survey.csv On a hunch with your clue I changed it to 666 via FTP and it works! -Bob From rjmolesa at consoltec.net Sun Jul 19 22:45:05 2009 From: rjmolesa at consoltec.net (Jon Molesa) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:45:05 -0400 Subject: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file - solved In-Reply-To: <4A63BB78.30106@dottedi.biz> References: <4A6389AF.8070808@dottedi.biz> <15747E55-34BE-4315-B2D6-0EE566FD55AF@gmail.com> <4A63BB78.30106@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <20090720034505.GO20732@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> Good, ignore my first reply. *On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 06:34:00PM -0600 Bob Meetin wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:34:00 -0600 > From: Bob Meetin > Subject: Re: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file - solved > To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" > > Dave Stevens wrote: > > Maybe the directory doesn't have wrote permissions? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 19 Jul 2009, at 17:01, Bob Meetin wrote: > > > >> $file = "/var/www/some_username/httpdocs/survey.csv"; // the path is > >> accurate > >> > >> if (! file_exists( $file )) { $doit = fopen("$file", "w"); } > >> $fp = fopen("$file", "a+"); > >> $label = "some text" > >> fwrite($fp, "$label|"); > >> fwrite($fp, "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"); // just to see... > >> > >> Thhe above looks to me that it should work, however of course it doesn't > >> so I tried a couple things like the following in the PHP script: > >> > >> system ("touch $file"); // it just stares back at me > >> > >> So I ftp a one liner file to the website and: > >> > >> chmod ("$file", 0666); // this does nothing to update perms > >> > >> system ("ls -l $file"); // this lists the file and perms > >> > >> system ("chmod 666 $file"); // this also does nothing > >> > >> I'm thinking this must be a probelm with how the "UNIX/Linux" webserver > >> is set up, so I ftp a phpinfo() file to the server What would they have > >> done with apache/php.ini to prevent file creation, and if so what should > >> I be looking for? > >> > >> -- > >> Bob0: > -->> that was a hint, but not the directory; I forgot that through FTP > you can not only look at but change file permissions. The httpdocs > directory is 750: > > drwxr-x--- 19 rvcftp psaserv 12288 Jul 19 11:49 httpdocs > > And the file was what it normally should be, 644, to write to files: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 rvcftp psacln 816 Jul 19 17:26 survey.csv > > On a hunch with your clue I changed it to 666 via FTP and it works! > > -Bob > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Jon Molesa rjmolesa at consoltec.net if you're bored or curious http://rjmolesa.com From rjmolesa at consoltec.net Sun Jul 19 22:43:58 2009 From: rjmolesa at consoltec.net (Jon Molesa) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:43:58 -0400 Subject: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file In-Reply-To: <4A6389AF.8070808@dottedi.biz> References: <4A6389AF.8070808@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <20090720034358.GN20732@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> *On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 03:01:35PM -0600 Bob Meetin wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:01:35 -0600 > From: Bob Meetin > Subject: [thelist] php - cannot open or write to a file > To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" > > $file = "/var/www/some_username/httpdocs/survey.csv"; // the path is > accurate > > > if (! file_exists( $file )) { $doit = fopen("$file", "w"); } > > $fp = fopen("$file", "a+"); > > $label = "some text" > > fwrite($fp, "$label|"); > > fwrite($fp, "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"); // just to see... > > Thhe above looks to me that it should work, however of course it doesn't > so I tried a couple things like the following in the PHP script: > > system ("touch $file"); // it just stares back at me > > So I ftp a one liner file to the website and: > > chmod ("$file", 0666); // this does nothing to update perms > > system ("ls -l $file"); // this lists the file and perms > > system ("chmod 666 $file"); // this also does nothing > > I'm thinking this must be a probelm with how the "UNIX/Linux" webserver > is set up, so I ftp a phpinfo() file to the server What would they have > done with apache/php.ini to prevent file creation, and if so what should > I be looking for? Is the script owned by the same user:group as the working directory? > > -- > Bob > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Jon Molesa rjmolesa at consoltec.net if you're bored or curious http://rjmolesa.com