From chris at gettheedgeonline.com Mon Aug 3 09:18:12 2009 From: chris at gettheedgeonline.com (Chris Dempsey) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:18:12 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Automated Email Script - ideas please In-Reply-To: References: <4A73139A.3040507@dottedi.biz><610592c90908011419m155f47bg315ace2f6890482@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B56E445B5CFF24FA32E2F4FB0112F222C86A9@sbserver.theedge.local> Hi All, One of our clients needs us to send automated emails the body of which will request a product be reserved for our client. The products are allocated on a 'first come first served' basis after a specific time of day, say 1pm, and there can be a number of people trying to reserve them. The email is sent to a specific POP3 box at the supplier which is used only by our client. The text in the body of the email can change on a daily basis. Our client has missed out on reserving a number of products recently when another buyer got an email in at 15 seconds past deadline where his was 60 seconds past opening bid time. This affects his business to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. The current solution [read bodge] is a web page which he can open in a browser with a meta refresh set at 15 seconds. The page is written in PHP and issues an email each time the page refreshes. This solution was implemented over a year ago and was chosen due to time and budget constraints. We now have to come up with a reliable method to issue an email to arrive at the dedicated POP3 box as close to 1pm as possible hopefully at 13.00.00 or 13.00.01. We have access to a dedicated Linux box and a shared Windows box with PHP and the client is prepared to purchase software if required. Current ideas/questions list includes: - plugin for Outlook to take send emails at a given time using a plain text file as the body - may not schedule recurring job or allow time control to the second - windows desktop program to send emails - found one when we were investigating options previously but it was difficult for our client to change the email body - scheduled cron job on linux [I know cron can be used for scheduling backups etc., assume it could send emails as well but know nothing about writing the script] - when the incoming email ends up in the supplier's Outlook mailbox what is it that controls the timestamp on the mail - the sending mailserver or the receiving mailserver - if an email was sent once every second for two minutes leading up to and following the bid opening time what are the implications of the sender/sender's IP being flagged as spamming Any ideas or queries please ask. Thanks, Chris From mlandman at face2interface.com Mon Aug 3 12:12:47 2009 From: mlandman at face2interface.com (Marty Landman) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:12:47 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Automated Email Script - ideas please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:18:12 +0100 Chris Dempsey wrote: >One of our clients needs us to send automated emails the body of which >will request a product be reserved for our client. Chris, comments embedded below. >- scheduled cron job on linux [I know cron can be used for scheduling >backups etc., assume it could send emails as well but know nothing about >writing the script] This is how I'd suggest approaching it. Cron is simply a way to schedule running /something/, like a script that sends an email. >- if an email was sent once every second for two minutes leading up to >and following the bid opening time what are the implications of the >sender/sender's IP being flagged as spamming That sounds like a bad way to approach it, but I'm unclear about the details. Is there an incoming email that triggers this process? Is human intervention needed, or could the whole process conceivably be automated? hth, Marty -- Marty Landman, Face 2 Interface Inc. 845-679-9387 Free Database Search App: http://face2interface.com/Products/FormATable.shtml From fredthejonester at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:22:25 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:22:25 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Automated Email Script - ideas please In-Reply-To: <2B56E445B5CFF24FA32E2F4FB0112F222C86A9@sbserver.theedge.local> References: <4A73139A.3040507@dottedi.biz> <610592c90908011419m155f47bg315ace2f6890482@mail.gmail.com> <2B56E445B5CFF24FA32E2F4FB0112F222C86A9@sbserver.theedge.local> Message-ID: <177c0a10908031222r25cf36efv4405f38fc6a1929a@mail.gmail.com> > - scheduled cron job on linux [I know cron can be used for scheduling > backups etc., assume it could send emails as well but know nothing about > writing the script] Yes, use cron to run a php script. This is very easy and will do just what you want. You use CLI or wget to trigger the php script. > - if an email was sent once every second for two minutes leading up to > and following the bid opening time what are the implications of the > sender/sender's IP being flagged as spamming 120 emails? Depends I suppose. I think that's a bit much. F From jimmyropes at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:22:20 2009 From: jimmyropes at gmail.com (James O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:22:20 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Automated Email Script - ideas please In-Reply-To: <2B56E445B5CFF24FA32E2F4FB0112F222C86A9@sbserver.theedge.local> References: <4A73139A.3040507@dottedi.biz><610592c90908011419m155f47bg315ace2f6890482@mail.gmail.com> <2B56E445B5CFF24FA32E2F4FB0112F222C86A9@sbserver.theedge.local> Message-ID: <007701ca1488$e05735c0$a105a140$@com> I have used cron on an Apache server to send emails. It is only good to a resolution of 1 minute but if you set the time to 13:00 it will go out very shortly after that. It is not guaranteed to go exactly at 13:00 but my experience, and this depends on what else is competing for resources at the time, is that it fires within 1 second of the specified time. Of course I am firing jobs at 23:00 and 23:55 so there isn't a lot going on at the server at that time of night but I think you will get a job to fire in a second any time of day. Cron is a kernel process after all and has a very high dispatch priority. You will have to set up a script to actually send the email (I use Perl but there are other ways of doing it -- google ==> perl sendmail -- to get a script that will send email). Sending an email every second is a bad idea and will get you blocked, and rightfully so. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sent: Monday, 03 August, 2009 10:18 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Automated Email Script - ideas please Hi All, One of our clients needs us to send automated emails the body of which will request a product be reserved for our client. The products are allocated on a 'first come first served' basis after a specific time of day, say 1pm, and there can be a number of people trying to reserve them. The email is sent to a specific POP3 box at the supplier which is used only by our client. The text in the body of the email can change on a daily basis. Our client has missed out on reserving a number of products recently when another buyer got an email in at 15 seconds past deadline where his was 60 seconds past opening bid time. This affects his business to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. The current solution [read bodge] is a web page which he can open in a browser with a meta refresh set at 15 seconds. The page is written in PHP and issues an email each time the page refreshes. This solution was implemented over a year ago and was chosen due to time and budget constraints. We now have to come up with a reliable method to issue an email to arrive at the dedicated POP3 box as close to 1pm as possible hopefully at 13.00.00 or 13.00.01. We have access to a dedicated Linux box and a shared Windows box with PHP and the client is prepared to purchase software if required. Current ideas/questions list includes: - plugin for Outlook to take send emails at a given time using a plain text file as the body - may not schedule recurring job or allow time control to the second - windows desktop program to send emails - found one when we were investigating options previously but it was difficult for our client to change the email body - scheduled cron job on linux [I know cron can be used for scheduling backups etc., assume it could send emails as well but know nothing about writing the script] - when the incoming email ends up in the supplier's Outlook mailbox what is it that controls the timestamp on the mail - the sending mailserver or the receiving mailserver - if an email was sent once every second for two minutes leading up to and following the bid opening time what are the implications of the sender/sender's IP being flagged as spamming Any ideas or queries please ask. Thanks, Chris -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/02/09 05:56:00 From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Aug 4 00:55:13 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:55:13 -0600 Subject: [thelist] IE - Done, but with errors on the page In-Reply-To: <4A75C13D.1050006@dottedi.biz> References: <4A73139A.3040507@dottedi.biz> <610592c90908011419m155f47bg315ace2f6890482@mail.gmail.com> <4A75C13D.1050006@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4A77CD41.2090109@dottedi.biz> It took a little boring drudgery but the problems are resolved. Again the problem was with a joomla cms installation. After deleting all the JavaScript references in the $webbhome/templates/$current_template/index.php file and seeing no reward in sight I went with brute force and copied in vanilla $webhome administrator components modules libraries with no luck. Then I went after $webhome/templates and found that if I copied in a generic system folder it resolved one error. Unfortunately the datestamps on the original files under system were all the same so finding the offending file would have required doing a file by file diff. The second error was in a gzip file, do_cookie.js.php, which I had set up When I used shift+j to combine the file lines originally I must have accidentally included a \n which wasn't apparent to the naked eye. Breaking then recombining the lines fixed the second problem. Firebug was helpful here in that it pointed out the correct file. -Bob From eccentric.one at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 03:09:48 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:09:48 -0500 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters Message-ID: <4a77ecd0.02045a0a.3b24.64f1@mx.google.com> I'm trying to write a query that will combine two fields and then remove all non-letter and non-number characters. SELECT unique_id, REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(CONCAT(street_num,' ', street_name),' ',''),'-',''),'/',''),'#',''),'.','') AS address FROM listings HAVING address LIKE '%123EasySt%' Now, this works up to what I have there. But, if I try to add an additional REPLACE to it, it kicks up an error saying something's wrong with my syntax. I guess my first question is, is there a better way to write this query? And if not, why won't it accept more nested replace statements? Thanks. -jeremy From rudy at r937.com Tue Aug 4 04:59:56 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:59:56 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters Message-ID: > is there a better way to write this query? no there is an alternate strategy, which is to store a sanitized value in an additional column alongside street_num and street_name, that already has the characters removed, which you would do when adding the row, using proper regex in your application language > And if not, why won't it accept more nested replace statements? it will please show the query that produced the error rudy From bird at koolfish.com Tue Aug 4 05:38:08 2009 From: bird at koolfish.com (Birdie) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:38:08 +0800 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map Message-ID: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> Hi, We are redesigning an old site whose visitors are global. We have always called the page that contains the index of pages 'site map' One of the staff there wondered if international clients whose first language is not English would understand what Site Map means? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? And if you think Site Map is too confusing what would you suggest as a menu name? Site Index ? Thanks Lisa From jimmyropes at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 05:12:33 2009 From: jimmyropes at gmail.com (James O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:12:33 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters In-Reply-To: <4a77ecd0.02045a0a.3b24.64f1@mx.google.com> References: <4a77ecd0.02045a0a.3b24.64f1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00c501ca14ec$16f9fdc0$44edf940$@com> Why do you add a space in the concat and then remove it in the replace? -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Weiss Sent: Tuesday, 04 August, 2009 04:10 To: Evolt Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters I'm trying to write a query that will combine two fields and then remove all non-letter and non-number characters. SELECT unique_id, REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(CONCAT(street_num,' ', street_name),' ',''),'-',''),'/',''),'#',''),'.','') AS address FROM listings HAVING address LIKE '%123EasySt%' Now, this works up to what I have there. But, if I try to add an additional REPLACE to it, it kicks up an error saying something's wrong with my syntax. I guess my first question is, is there a better way to write this query? And if not, why won't it accept more nested replace statements? Thanks. -jeremy -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/02/09 05:56:00 From eccentric.one at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:38:22 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:38:22 -0500 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters In-Reply-To: <00c501ca14ec$16f9fdc0$44edf940$@com> References: <4a77ecd0.02045a0a.3b24.64f1@mx.google.com> <00c501ca14ec$16f9fdc0$44edf940$@com> Message-ID: <4a786405.1508c00a.1a7e.083d@mx.google.com> > James O'Donnell uttered: > > Why do you add a space in the concat and then remove it in the replace? Umm.... umm... hmm... Temporary insanity? > rudy spouted: > > there is an alternate strategy, which is to store a sanitized value in an > additional column alongside street_num and street_name, that already has the > characters removed, which you would do when adding the row, using proper > regex in your application language I wish I could. Unfortunately it's not an option, I'm not allowed to modify the structure of the db on this one. > it will right as usual > please show the query that produced the error Well, you see... I took a nap and tried it again... amazing how much easier it was afterwards. :) Here's the finished product in case anyone else ever needs to filter everything except letters and numbers: SELECT unique_id, REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPL ACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE( REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(CONCAT(street_num,'' , street_name),' ',''),'-',''),'/',''),'#',''),'.',''),'"',''),'\\',''),'\'',''),',',''),'{', ''),'}',''),'(',''),')',''),'&',''),':',''),'+',''),'@',''),'=',''),'_',''), '!',''),'%',''),'^',''),'*',''),'`',''),'~',''),'|','') AS address FROM listings HAVING address LIKE '%123EasyStreet%' I wonder what it would take to get a regex replace function into a future version MySQL? -jeremy From rudy at r937.com Tue Aug 4 12:06:20 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:06:20 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters Message-ID: <1FCDAED18D1740F6AE2BFF189005901E@curly> dear eccentric one i dislike HAVING without a GROUP BY clause -- it often works, but it's semantically on shaky ground but, as i'm sure your tests have revealed, you cannot use a column alias in the WHERE clause there is a solution -- push the alias down into a subquery SELECT * FROM ( SELECT unique_id , insanely_complex_expression AS address FROM listings ) AS d WHERE address LIKE '%123EasyStreet%' this is also one of those rare instances where it is perfectly okay to use the dreaded, evil "select star" ;o) rudy http://simply-sql.com/ From eccentric.one at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 12:37:33 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:37:33 -0500 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters In-Reply-To: <1FCDAED18D1740F6AE2BFF189005901E@curly> References: <1FCDAED18D1740F6AE2BFF189005901E@curly> Message-ID: <4a7871e4.14045a0a.0321.0437@mx.google.com> Rudy, When you say 'it's semantically on shaky ground' do you mean it's not proper coding or that it could return unexpected results, or both? -jeremy From rudy at r937.com Tue Aug 4 13:19:56 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:19:56 -0400 Subject: [thelist] mysql query - replacing characters Message-ID: the semantic purpose of the HAVING clause is to filter the grouped aggregate rows produced by the GROUP BY clause if there is no GROUP BY clause, where is the aggregation taking place? technically, the entire result set forms a single group it might be valid, but semantically, i dasn't like it at all From dan.p.burke at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:00:33 2009 From: dan.p.burke at gmail.com (Daniel Burke) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:30:33 +0930 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map In-Reply-To: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> References: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> Message-ID: The concept of the sitemap was prolific when I started using the 'net in late 1995. Today there is a "sitemap" standard, detailed at sitemaps.org. If they don't know what "Site Map" means by now, I would postulate that that is the least of your problems. regards, dan -- "It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on yourself." --Programming Perl 3rd Edition, end of first chapter. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Birdie wrote: > Hi, > > We are redesigning an old site whose visitors are global. > > We have always called the page that contains the index of pages 'site map' > > > > One of the staff there wondered if international clients whose first > language is not English would understand what Site Map means? > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? > > And if you think Site Map is too confusing what would you suggest as a menu > name? Site Index ? > > > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From mqueme at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:15:41 2009 From: mqueme at gmail.com (Marianela Queme) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:15:41 -0600 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map In-Reply-To: References: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> Message-ID: My first language is not english and I know what a sitemap is!!!! I think, it is pretty much standard, worldwide. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Daniel Burke wrote: > The concept of the sitemap was prolific when I started using the 'net in > late 1995. Today there is a "sitemap" standard, detailed at sitemaps.org. > If they don't know what "Site Map" means by now, I would postulate that > that > is the least of your problems. > > regards, > > dan > -- > "It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on > yourself." --Programming Perl 3rd Edition, end of first chapter. > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Birdie wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > We are redesigning an old site whose visitors are global. > > > > We have always called the page that contains the index of pages 'site > map' > > > > > > > > One of the staff there wondered if international clients whose first > > language is not English would understand what Site Map means? > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? > > > > And if you think Site Map is too confusing what would you suggest as a > menu > > name? Site Index ? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > -- > > > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Marianela Queme Guatemala "Life is beautiful" www.mqueme.com From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 10:21:10 2009 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Volkan_=D6z=E7elik?=) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:21:10 +0300 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map In-Reply-To: References: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Marianela Queme wrote: > My first language is not english and I know what a sitemap is!!!! I think, > it is pretty much standard, worldwide. > In Turkish it is literally translated word by word as "site haritas?" where "site" refers (you guessed) "site", and "haritas?" refers to "map". However a Turkish native (with no knowledge of English) wouldn't have a clue what a sitemap is. It is not a generic word like "mayonnaise" or "yoghurt" which is used unchanged worldwide. HTH, -- Volkan Ozcelik +> Front End Architect, MessengerFX : http://www.messengerfx.com/ +> I tweet: http://twitter.com/linkibol From barney.carroll at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:02:53 2009 From: barney.carroll at gmail.com (Barney Carroll) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:02:53 +0100 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map In-Reply-To: References: <4475F760CAF74241A5C7AB9569A538CB@BIRDIE> Message-ID: <472577830908050902u7ba1c7bw5ef43dc2e7021438@mail.gmail.com> French: 'Plan du site'. Again, that's literal word-for-word. >From a social linguistics angle, a) Internet terminology is by-and-wide created on the spot by American memes which are then inherited in finished formed by other languages/cultures and b) 'site map' is a very self-evident and literal description that has never needed explicit definition in my experience ? so using the literal translation in other languages will probably be just as obvious. Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carroll at gmail.com 07594 506 381 2009/8/5 Volkan ?z?elik > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Marianela Queme wrote: > > > My first language is not english and I know what a sitemap is!!!! I > think, > > it is pretty much standard, worldwide. > > > > In Turkish it is literally translated word by word as "site haritas?" > where "site" refers (you guessed) "site", and "haritas?" refers to "map". > > However a Turkish native (with no knowledge of English) wouldn't have a > clue > what a sitemap is. > It is not a generic word like "mayonnaise" or "yoghurt" which is used > unchanged worldwide. > > HTH, > -- > Volkan Ozcelik > +> Front End Architect, MessengerFX : http://www.messengerfx.com/ > +> I tweet: http://twitter.com/linkibol > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From joel at bizba6.com Wed Aug 5 18:58:37 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:58:37 -0700 Subject: [thelist] javascript form validation not firing (again) Message-ID: <619d00930908051658k588699djea4908cf8fe16bb6@mail.gmail.com> seems like I run into this every time I edit javascript any more can anyone point out the childishly simple reason that I can submit this page w/o the validation routine firing at all? http://www.businessheretics.com/ck/login/welcome.asp?s=S-58D907802X8109305 FireFox error console doesn't show any errors. -- Joel at Bizba6.com http://BusinessHeretics.com/ From jayturley at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 19:34:51 2009 From: jayturley at gmail.com (Jay Turley) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:34:51 -0700 Subject: [thelist] javascript form validation not firing (again) In-Reply-To: <619d00930908051658k588699djea4908cf8fe16bb6@mail.gmail.com> References: <619d00930908051658k588699djea4908cf8fe16bb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61ed1fc20908051734g44a7fcacyecfc927997ad6165@mail.gmail.com> For me, this is almost ALWAYS a result of a javascript error in the validation routine (typically a logic error like using = instead of ==) Firebug shows an error on line 58 with your else statement. Also, I'd pay particular attention to the input name line 47 ;-) (even though that's not the problem). I think the real problem are the semicolons at the end of your else clauses. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Joel Canfield wrote: > seems like I run into this every time I edit javascript any more > can anyone point out the childishly simple reason that I can submit this > page w/o the validation routine firing at all? > > > http://www.businessheretics.com/ck/login/welcome.asp?s=S-58D907802X8109305 > > FireFox error console doesn't show any errors. > > -- > Joel at Bizba6.com > http://BusinessHeretics.com/ > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From joel at bizba6.com Thu Aug 6 00:30:21 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:30:21 -0700 Subject: [thelist] javascript form validation not firing (again) In-Reply-To: <61ed1fc20908051734g44a7fcacyecfc927997ad6165@mail.gmail.com> References: <619d00930908051658k588699djea4908cf8fe16bb6@mail.gmail.com> <61ed1fc20908051734g44a7fcacyecfc927997ad6165@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <619d00930908052230m70d4698cybe88060e18b03cd@mail.gmail.com> See? I knew it was childishly simple. Boggles my mind that I could miss that, let alone type 'em. Far too long staring at a screen today. Maybe I'll get a part-time job as a bartender so I can get out of the house once in a while. Thanks, Jay. joel On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Jay Turley wrote: > For me, this is almost ALWAYS a result of a javascript error in the > validation routine (typically a logic error like using = instead of ==) > > Firebug shows an error on line 58 with your else statement. > > Also, I'd pay particular attention to the input name line 47 ;-) (even > though that's not the problem). > > I think the real problem are the semicolons at the end of your else > clauses. > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Joel Canfield wrote: > > > seems like I run into this every time I edit javascript any more > > can anyone point out the childishly simple reason that I can submit this > > page w/o the validation routine firing at all? > > > > > > > http://www.businessheretics.com/ck/login/welcome.asp?s=S-58D907802X8109305 > > > > FireFox error console doesn't show any errors. > > > > -- > > Joel at Bizba6.com > > http://BusinessHeretics.com/ > > -- > > > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Joel at Bizba6.com http://BusinessHeretics.com/ From bird at koolfish.com Thu Aug 6 06:30:40 2009 From: bird at koolfish.com (Birdie) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:30:40 +0800 Subject: [thelist] alternative name for site map In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to all of you who replied about the site map question. I have never really heard it referred to as anything else but its always good to have other people to back up your thoughts. Thanks Lisa From mark at cwc.co.nz Thu Aug 6 21:56:16 2009 From: mark at cwc.co.nz (Mark Henderson) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:56:16 +1200 Subject: [thelist] Wordpress Calendar Message-ID: I'm currently running the Events Calendar plugin (with an s!) on a Wordpress blog for a client with the Atahualpa theme, and want to hide one (possibly both) of the sidebars so the display isn't so tight. I'm just starting with Wordpress and am wondering how this might be done. I checked the calendar options and this doesn't seem to be available anywhere, and the code doesn't have a body id so I can't use pure CSS to achieve this either, at least to the best of my knowledge. Also, if anyone has a recommendation for another calendar that may (or may not) be better, please let me know as I am also open to this avenue, as the current calendar isn't exactly ideal. TIA Adieu Mark From mqueme at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 09:20:02 2009 From: mqueme at gmail.com (Marianela Queme) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:20:02 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Wordpress Calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, in wordpress the sidebar code is usually in a file called sidebar.php, you can comment out the lines of code you want to hide. Usually some of the widgets a theme presents are hard coded on that page. Hope this helps... cheers On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Mark Henderson wrote: > I'm currently running the Events Calendar plugin (with an s!) on a > Wordpress blog for a client with the Atahualpa theme, and want to hide > one (possibly both) of the sidebars so the display isn't so tight. I'm > just starting with Wordpress and am wondering how this might be done. I > checked the calendar options and this doesn't seem to be available > anywhere, and the code doesn't have a body id so I can't use pure CSS to > achieve this either, at least to the best of my knowledge. > > Also, if anyone has a recommendation for another calendar that may (or > may not) be better, please let me know as I am also open to this avenue, > as the current calendar isn't exactly ideal. > > TIA > > Adieu > Mark > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Marianela Queme Guatemala "Life is beautiful" www.mqueme.com From evolt_org at striderweb.com Fri Aug 7 10:14:47 2009 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:14:47 -0500 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> References: <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> Message-ID: <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:16 AM, steven streight wrote: > As we all know, you often have to retype CAPTCHA characters, as many > as 5 times in some cases I recall, until you get them right. Those > letters or numbers are all twisty curvey and very hard to read. I recommend reCAPTCHA. By definition it's text computers have trouble reading, but I've never (okay, very rarely) had trouble figuring out what the word or text is. (And my eyesight ain't so good): http://recaptcha.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA Stephen From barney.carroll at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 10:26:05 2009 From: barney.carroll at gmail.com (Barney Carroll) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:26:05 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> References: <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> Message-ID: <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> reCAPTCHA often gives me grief ? I often end up in the same situation as Stephen. And each time, I'm wondering why it is that these words have to be so obscurely distorted to evade automated recognition, yet I can't find any decent free OCR software to operate on screen caps. Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carroll at gmail.com 07594 506 381 2009/8/7 Stephen Rider > > On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:16 AM, steven streight wrote: > > > As we all know, you often have to retype CAPTCHA characters, as many > > as 5 times in some cases I recall, until you get them right. Those > > letters or numbers are all twisty curvey and very hard to read. > > I recommend reCAPTCHA. By definition it's text computers have trouble > reading, but I've never (okay, very rarely) had trouble figuring out > what the word or text is. (And my eyesight ain't so good): > > http://recaptcha.net/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA > > Stephen > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From willthemoor at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:00:14 2009 From: willthemoor at gmail.com (Will) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:00:14 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2506fbd50908070900g4ce2e51cg46b47ed35bf7ab48@mail.gmail.com> Agreed. I love the reCAPTCHA project for the brilliant stroke of crowdsourcing that it is but it seems like I'm having more and more trouble figuring out what both words are. Perhaps they're running out of easy scans or maybe I'm just getting dumber. I've been pushing clients towards simple questions or using an input hidden with css (not type=hidden) that should return empty. needs strong messaging in place for users without css on (screen readers, old cell phones) to leave it blank. They both work great and makes for a more pleasant ux. http://haacked.com/archive/2007/09/11/honeypot-captcha.aspx On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Barney Carroll wrote: > reCAPTCHA often gives me grief ? I often end up in the same situation as > Stephen. And each time, I'm wondering why it is that these words have to be > so obscurely distorted to evade automated recognition, yet I can't find any > decent free OCR software to operate on screen caps. > > > Regards, > Barney Carroll > > barney.carroll at gmail.com > 07594 506 381 > > > 2009/8/7 Stephen Rider > >> >> On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:16 AM, steven streight wrote: >> >> > As we all know, you often have to retype CAPTCHA characters, as many >> > as 5 times in some cases I recall, until you get them right. Those >> > letters or numbers are all twisty curvey and very hard to read. >> >> I recommend reCAPTCHA. ?By definition it's text computers have trouble >> reading, but I've never (okay, very rarely) had trouble figuring out >> what the word or text is. (And my eyesight ain't so good): >> >> http://recaptcha.net/ >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA >> >> Stephen >> -- >> >> * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * >> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ >> >> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester >> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org >> Workers of the Web, evolt ! >> > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From chris.price at choctaw.co.uk Fri Aug 7 11:14:35 2009 From: chris.price at choctaw.co.uk (Chris Price) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:14:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> Barney Carroll wrote: > reCAPTCHA often gives me grief ? I often end up in the same situation as > Stephen. And each time, I'm wondering why it is that these words have to be > so obscurely distorted to evade automated recognition, yet I can't find any > decent free OCR software to operate on screen caps. > > I've been pleasantly surprised when I've been offered a series of characters that form 2 real (if unconnected) words so that if I can't make out one of the characters at least I can guess what it is. I know you're not supposed to use real words for passwords but I can't see that doing so in a captcha could pose any real threat. We read words as pictures rather than spelling them out. Could spambots attempt this? -- Kind Regards Chris Price Choctaw chris.price at choctaw.co.uk www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 629 0227 Choctaw Media Fertile Ground for Websites Follow me on Twitter Catch up with me on LinkedIn Its a Living Thing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd << ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB, United Kingdom. From chris.price at choctaw.co.uk Fri Aug 7 11:17:54 2009 From: chris.price at choctaw.co.uk (Chris Price) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:17:54 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <2506fbd50908070900g4ce2e51cg46b47ed35bf7ab48@mail.gmail.com> References: <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <7B290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4F3C4CCC-6B20-4502-AE33-8A2A110E5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <2506fbd50908070900g4ce2e51cg46b47ed35bf7ab48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7C53B2.6030401@choctaw.co.uk> Will wrote: > ...using an input hidden with css (not type=hidden) that should return empty. I like that idea! -- Kind Regards Chris Price Choctaw chris.price at choctaw.co.uk www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 629 0227 Choctaw Media Fertile Ground for Websites Follow me on Twitter Catch up with me on LinkedIn Its a Living Thing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd << ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB, United Kingdom. From dan at danromanchik.com Fri Aug 7 12:52:22 2009 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:52:22 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Anyone using online project management software? Message-ID: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> For most of the projects I work on, I'm the sole developer and don't even think twice about project management. Now, however, I'm working on a bigger project, that includes several developers, and would like to convince the others that it's probably a good idea if we set up and use one. I think a project-management system would help us not only track development, but keep track of bug reports and feature requests. So, what should we use? One web hosting company that I deal with has a CPanel interface that includes Fantastico and two different project management packages: dotproject and PHProjekt. Is there anyone who's familiar with the pros and cons of these two packages? Are there others that I should be considering? Thanks! Dan Romanchik Web Publishing Group www.webpublishinggroup.com From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 14:35:58 2009 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Volkan_=D6z=E7elik?=) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:35:58 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Anyone using online project management software? In-Reply-To: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> References: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Dan Romanchik wrote: > Now, however, I'm working > on a bigger project, that includes several developers, and would like > to convince the others that it's probably a good idea if we set up and > use one. It's definitely a good idea to get organized. As a sidenote, often getting real [1] is far more important than getting organized ;) As a higly dynamic startup we use; - a real physical whiteboard on our wall boardmarkers of several colors (it really helps) - a tiddly wiki for keeping personal notes [3] - a combination of todo.txt [4] + svn for assigning and tracking tasks ( we tried bug tracker .net [2] but found out that plain old text file was a much productive approach) - and subversion for version controlling By far, this approach worked quite nice for us. If you like something web-based, you may want to consider BaseCamp [5] or Trac [6]. I've used basecamp for my freelance projects. It has a very intuitive interface and it is fun to use. So, what should we use? There a a plethora of PM products out there (both free, freemium, open source and paid). There is no "perfect match" for all projects and all teams. You should try and see which best fits for your team. However, it's a good focus on getting real first. YMMV of course. [1] "Featured Presentations, Keynotes, and Interviews" http://37signals.com/speaks [2] "Bug Tracker .net" http://ifdefined.com/bugtrackernet.html [3] "Tiddly Wiki" http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ [4] "Todo.txt" http://ginatrapani.github.com/todo.txt-cli/ [5] Basecamp http://basecamphq.com [6] Trac http://trac.edgewall.org/ HTH, -- Volkan Ozcelik +> Front End Architect, MessengerFX : http://www.messengerfx.com/ +> I tweet: http://twitter.com/linkibol +> linkibol.com - in seek for quality links : http://www.linkibol.com/ +> my blog (in Turkish) : http://www.fikribol.com/donkisot/ +> Sardalya JavaScript Library : http://www.sarmal.com/sardalya/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri Aug 7 15:39:35 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:39:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Anyone using online project management software? In-Reply-To: References: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> Message-ID: On 7 Aug 2009, at 20:35, Volkan ?z?elik wrote: > Hi Dan, > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Dan Romanchik wrote: > >> Now, however, I'm working >> on a bigger project, that includes several developers, and would like >> to convince the others that it's probably a good idea if we set up >> and >> use one. > > > It's definitely a good idea to get organized. Yes. Turn this into your mantra: "If it's not in writing, it's a rumour. And we don't work that way" And ensure that the 'in writing' bit is somewhere where everyone can see it. > - a real physical whiteboard on our wall boardmarkers of several > colors (it > really helps) Never underestimate the power of whiteboards, even if you've got online tracking as your master data; having it in your face where everyone can see it instantly is incredibly useful. I have a very powerful, expensive online system tracking many factors; I still have whiteboards as my ready-reference logs to a couple of key ones (and I jump on anyone very hard who doesn't update the whiteboard inline with the full master data in the online system). Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From vaspers at inbox.com Fri Aug 7 13:51:29 2009 From: vaspers at inbox.com (steven streight) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:51:29 -0800 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> Message-ID: <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> CAPTCHAs should not be routinely used, except when spambot floods make moderation not feasible. That said, the smartest thing I've ever heard is quoted below. Why can't CAPTCHAs be actual words a human can guess, when the type is so distorted? And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? Or even add "What do you see in this picture? State the color, then what it is, eg, blue castle". How could a bot interpret a picture and a color? Steven E. Streight http://www.pluperfecter.blogspot.com > I've been pleasantly surprised when I've been offered a series of > characters that form 2 real (if unconnected) words so that if I can't > make out one of the characters at least I can guess what it is. > > I know you're not supposed to use real words for passwords but I can't > see that doing so in a captcha could pose any real threat. > > We read words as pictures rather than spelling them out. Could spambots > attempt this? > -- > > Kind Regards > > > Chris Price > Choctaw From jimmyropes at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 15:27:50 2009 From: jimmyropes at gmail.com (James O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:27:50 -0400 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> Message-ID: <012601ca1866$b3fd6760$1bf83620$@com> "And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words" An excellent idea which is so simple to implement. I am going to use it. This is when I say to myself, "that is so obvious why didn't I think of it". Thanks for the tip. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of steven streight Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 14:51 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] CAPTCHA CAPTCHAs should not be routinely used, except when spambot floods make moderation not feasible. That said, the smartest thing I've ever heard is quoted below. Why can't CAPTCHAs be actual words a human can guess, when the type is so distorted? And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? Or even add "What do you see in this picture? State the color, then what it is, eg, blue castle". How could a bot interpret a picture and a color? Steven E. Streight http://www.pluperfecter.blogspot.com > I've been pleasantly surprised when I've been offered a series of > characters that form 2 real (if unconnected) words so that if I can't > make out one of the characters at least I can guess what it is. > > I know you're not supposed to use real words for passwords but I can't > see that doing so in a captcha could pose any real threat. > > We read words as pictures rather than spelling them out. Could spambots > attempt this? > -- > > Kind Regards > > > Chris Price > Choctaw -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/08/09 06:10:00 From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:21:12 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:21:12 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:51 AM, steven streight wrote: > Why can't CAPTCHAs be actual words a human can guess, when the type is so distorted? I have seen that done, don't recall where; it does make it easier. > And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? Uh, wha? That seems iffy. I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", or -- Rorschach test anyone? :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From chris.price at choctaw.co.uk Sat Aug 8 17:07:35 2009 From: chris.price at choctaw.co.uk (Chris Price) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:07:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? > > > Uh, wha? That seems iffy. > > I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", > or -- Rorschach test anyone? :-) > A house may also be a maison. This isn't something you can just take a stab at. There must be background research on this. But I'd definitely go for the 2 unrelated but real words. I hadn't heard of Rorschach - just looked it up. I see a cat. -- Kind Regards Chris Price Choctaw chris.price at choctaw.co.uk www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 629 0227 Choctaw Media Fertile Ground for Websites Follow me on Twitter Catch up with me on LinkedIn Its a Living Thing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd << ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB, United Kingdom. From ftarzwell at fayec.com Sat Aug 8 17:13:01 2009 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC)) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:13:01 -0400 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> Message-ID: <4A7DF86D.6030506@fayec.com> Steven streight wrote: > And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? Securimage (http://www.phpcaptcha.org/) uses a list of words you can populate yourself. Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) Web Designer Joomla! Marketing Team Joomla! Bug Squad JUGT/Joomla! Evangelist From jimmyropes at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:16:46 2009 From: jimmyropes at gmail.com (James O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:16:46 -0400 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <012901ca1886$af8a2130$0e9e6390$@com> Cat is the right answer! You may proceed. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Chris Price Sent: Saturday, 08 August, 2009 18:08 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] CAPTCHA Hassan Schroeder wrote: > And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? > > > Uh, wha? That seems iffy. > > I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", > or -- Rorschach test anyone? :-) > A house may also be a maison. This isn't something you can just take a stab at. There must be background research on this. But I'd definitely go for the 2 unrelated but real words. I hadn't heard of Rorschach - just looked it up. I see a cat. -- Kind Regards Chris Price Choctaw chris.price at choctaw.co.uk www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 629 0227 Choctaw Media Fertile Ground for Websites Follow me on Twitter Catch up with me on LinkedIn Its a Living Thing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd << ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB, United Kingdom. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/08/09 06:10:00 From eccentric.one at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 20:38:33 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:38:33 -0500 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4A7DF86D.6030506@fayec.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <2b56e445b5cff24fa32e2f4fb0112f222c8265@sbserver.theedge.local> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4A7DF86D.6030506@fayec.com> Message-ID: <4a7e28b7.09035a0a.0fe6.4ace@mx.google.com> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > > I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", > I wondered about that myself. But what about simple color/shape combinations. 'red triangle' or 'blue circle'. PHP (and most languages, I assume) could easily draw the image on the fly. And, it would be quite simple to solve... not sure if it would work though. Hmm, if I ever build a site targeted to children, I'll have to try that. Hassan Schroeder also wrote: > > Rorschach test anyone? :-) > Hmm...maybe not as a CAPTCHA, but... Facebook app, anyone? :) Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) wrote: > > Securimage (http://www.phpcaptcha.org/) uses a list of words you can > populate yourself. > I've used this on several sites and it seems to be a good middle ground between 'working' and 'legible'. As an added bonus, you can make the word list related to the topic of the site. For example, if it's a real estate agent selling beach front properties, make a list of words like ocean, beach ball, wave, sunburn, etc. A few days ago I came across one I hadn't seen before. It would give a sentence and ask you to complete it. For example: "People live in a ho???" and it required you to type in the 'use'. I actually missed it the first time b/c I typed the whole word instead of just the missing letters. But, it was simple and didn't cause me to strain myself looking hallucinogenic images. -jeremy From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 21:07:39 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:07:39 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4a7e28b7.09035a0a.0fe6.4ace@mx.google.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4A7DF86D.6030506@fayec.com> <4a7e28b7.09035a0a.0fe6.4ace@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0908081907x7509db5m7cbf71c926642dd6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Jeremy Weiss wrote: > I wondered about that myself. But what about simple color/shape > combinations. 'red triangle' or 'blue circle'. Ruh roh. Now we're straying into the whole color-blindness arena :-) And, to a non-technical person, is a 4-sided shape with 90? angled corners a "rectangle" or a "box"? :-) Wait, are the sides exactly equal? So, it's not a rectangle, it's well, technically, it's both a rectangle and a square, and a trapezoid, and a polygon. Even the W3C HTML recommendations distinguish between "disc" and "circle" for the UL "type" attribute. They're both round. Or is that really a "ball"? I've seen CAPTCHAs that sucked, yes, but personally I'd be more inclined to just go with the "what's 2 + 2" question approach rather than stretch too far into interpretation based on what may not be a shared worldview. At least until our computers are capable of a much more nuanced interpretation of responses. Meanwhile, excuse me a sec -- "HAL, open the pod bay door." ... "HAL?" ... damn, /brb -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From bobm at dottedi.biz Sat Aug 8 23:00:08 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:00:08 -0600 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0908081907x7509db5m7cbf71c926642dd6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4A7DF86D.6030506@fayec.com> <4a7e28b7.09035a0a.0fe6.4ace@mx.google.com> <4eedb92a0908081907x7509db5m7cbf71c926642dd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7E49C8.5090101@dottedi.biz> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Jeremy Weiss > wrote: > > I've seen CAPTCHAs that sucked, yes, but personally I'd be more > inclined to just go with the "what's 2 + 2" question approach rather > than stretch too far into interpretation based on what may not be a > shared worldview. > > I know I shouldn't but can't resist. I regularly misread captcha - > really detest them. However, simple math if fairly universally > understood and works. > Side note - I'd swear that with Craigslist I've posted ads and if I get 80% of the characters right, they go through. > If you want to take it to level 2, it'd be pretty easy to use > imagemagick/convert to display two very readable (not pop art) images > as numbers. > % convert -background white -fill black -border 5 -bordercolor white -pointsize 30 label:'2 + 7 = ?' math.gif Program in: $result = $var1 + $var2 % convert -background white -fill black -border 5 -bordercolor white -pointsize 30 label:'%var1 + $var2 = ?' math.gif That being said in general I prefer if possible using techniques that prevent spammers/spambots from filling in forms by addressing their repetitive behavior patterns. Also someone (can't find the email) made a super suggestion regarding placing a "administrator use only" field on the form and if filled in, deny the submission. From raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za Sun Aug 9 09:24:20 2009 From: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za (Raoul Snyman) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 16:24:20 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Anyone using online project management software? In-Reply-To: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> References: <73151F8D-344D-4481-909A-02948B6B2546@danromanchik.com> Message-ID: <200908091624.21055.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> On Friday 07 August 2009 19:52:22 Dan Romanchik wrote: > So, what should we use? One web hosting company that I deal with has a > CPanel interface that includes Fantastico and two different project > management packages: dotproject and PHProjekt. Is there anyone who's > familiar with the pros and cons of these two packages? Are there > others that I should be considering? dotProject is miles better than PHProjekt, but it's navigation is confusing and illogical. Trac is in essence a ticketing system masquerading as a project management system. The only really promising open source system I found was activeCollab, which became closed source and commercial as soon as it was starting to get somewhere. There is a fork of the last open source version, called Project Pier, but the last time I looked at it, there wasn't much going on. You might want to see where they are now. I actually started my own open source project management system, modeled after Basecamp and called Project HQ, but it's not really at a production-ready stage yet. The project website is http://projecthq.org/ - there's a demo of the latest version there if you want to play around with it. Hope this helps. -- Raoul Snyman, B.Tech IT (Software Engineering) Saturn Laboratories m: 082 550 3754 e: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za w: www.saturnlaboratories.co.za b: blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za From willthemoor at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:34:54 2009 From: willthemoor at gmail.com (Will) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:34:54 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <472577830908070826g74e1acafkaef7c26e8dcc23e8@mail.gmail.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <2506fbd50908090834h11bd3d46t5de7b40000f11128@mail.gmail.com> recaptcha uses real words - some of them are just too garbled. careful with interpretive questions - particularly ones where you're only testing for the english answer. it's a big internet. images (w/o alt text) and color based ones are just not going to work for some users. I guess it all depends on the site/audience. I'm on a couple of topic specific forums that use a question only those interested in the forum's topic would know the answer to. still think hidden input or dead simple math is the way to go until it's a problem. On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Chris Price wrote: > Hassan Schroeder wrote: >> And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? >> >> >> Uh, wha? That seems iffy. >> >> I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", >> or -- Rorschach test anyone? :-) >> > A house may also be a maison. This isn't something you can just take a > stab at. There must be background research on this. > > But I'd definitely go for the 2 unrelated but real words. > > I hadn't heard of Rorschach - just looked it up. I see a cat. > -- > > Kind Regards > > > ?Chris Price > ?Choctaw > From barney.carroll at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 12:14:19 2009 From: barney.carroll at gmail.com (Barney Carroll) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:14:19 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CAPTCHA In-Reply-To: <2506fbd50908090834h11bd3d46t5de7b40000f11128@mail.gmail.com> References: <4f3c4ccc-6b20-4502-ae33-8a2a110e5246@striderweb.com> <3cba52b9335f054fb6d2e68618e018c60762adc2@sfmail01.lchb.com> <7b290204102.00000303vaspers@inbox.com> <4a2d3d18.4000404@gmail.com> <17a101c9e845$7f098e90$7d1cabb0$@com> <4A7C52EB.2050405@choctaw.co.uk> <564271AE150.000003ADvaspers@inbox.com> <4eedb92a0908081421n4cb72f4fv6fd2a6402c92f38a@mail.gmail.com> <4A7DF727.6070607@choctaw.co.uk> <2506fbd50908090834h11bd3d46t5de7b40000f11128@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <472577830908091014i122d77dfy8bfc533547a435b2@mail.gmail.com> I used to have a hidden input humanity test on my site's contact page. This occasionally got blank emails through but never any spam. I have also used simple maths (What's randomNumber + randomNumber?) with nothing getting through, although this was on a very low-traffic site. Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carroll at gmail.com 07594 506 381 2009/8/9 Will > recaptcha uses real words - some of them are just too garbled. > > careful with interpretive questions - particularly ones where you're > only testing for the english answer. it's a big internet. images (w/o > alt text) and color based ones are just not going to work for some > users. I guess it all depends on the site/audience. I'm on a couple of > topic specific forums that use a question only those interested in the > forum's topic would know the answer to. > > still think hidden input or dead simple math is the way to go until > it's a problem. > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Chris Price > wrote: > > Hassan Schroeder wrote: > >> And why can't a picture be the CAPTCHA that you have to express in > words. Show a photo or drawing of a house, with no ALT IMG description of > course, and user has to type in "house" in the text entry box? > >> > >> > >> Uh, wha? That seems iffy. > >> > >> I'd think one person's "house" might be another's "home", or "building", > >> or -- Rorschach test anyone? :-) > >> > > A house may also be a maison. This isn't something you can just take a > > stab at. There must be background research on this. > > > > But I'd definitely go for the 2 unrelated but real words. > > > > I hadn't heard of Rorschach - just looked it up. I see a cat. > > -- > > > > Kind Regards > > > > > > Chris Price > > Choctaw > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! >