From loumitan at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 07:22:48 2009 From: loumitan at yahoo.com (lamia helmy) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] Please take me off of these emails, thank you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <150268.85667.qm@web50712.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please take me off of these emails, thank's ----- Original Message ---- From: Hal Shapiro To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:50:00 PM Subject: [thelist] Please take me off of these emails, thank you Please take me off of these emails, thank you -- Hal A Shapiro Division Lead Direct Hire Services The BOSS Group ? where talent and opportunity meet P: 610.668.3456 C: 215.416.5003 F: 610.668.3455 E: h.shapiro at thebossgroup.com W: http://www.thebossgroup.com/ BLOG: http://phillyinteractivejobs.wordpress.com/ Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/halslinkedin Twitter:? http://twitter.com/halshapiro -- * * Please support the community that supports you.? * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From kate.007 at btinternet.com Mon Sep 28 07:51:21 2009 From: kate.007 at btinternet.com (kate.007 at btinternet.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:51:21 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Please take me off of these emails, thank you References: <150268.85667.qm@web50712.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7496B2E3B83C497983E3B9F126232017@kate05vbqb1i4r> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "lamia helmy" To: Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Please take me off of these emails, thank you Please take me off of these emails, thank's ----- Original Message ---- From: Hal Shapiro To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:50:00 PM Subject: [thelist] Please take me off of these emails, thank you Please take me off of these emails, thank you -- Hal A Shapiro Division Lead Direct Hire Services The BOSS Group ? where talent and opportunity meet P: 610.668.3456 C: 215.416.5003 F: 610.668.3455 E: h.shapiro at thebossgroup.com W: http://www.thebossgroup.com/ BLOG: http://phillyinteractivejobs.wordpress.com/ Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/halslinkedin Twitter: http://twitter.com/halshapiro -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4463 (20090928) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4463 (20090928) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From bobm at dottedi.biz Mon Sep 28 10:10:24 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:10:24 -0600 Subject: [thelist] pricing for web sites? In-Reply-To: <2F9E2DDE-0B5B-49B3-9755-7B59D2425056@easyweb.co.uk> References: <12d801ca3c74$509782a0$f1c687e0$@com> <619d00930909231503x347eef4bkc8fa53561626070d@mail.gmail.com> <00d001ca3caa$cdef9d60$69ced820$@com> <2AE056E1C6624A9C88C14D2765B20DF8@nancyb0bda4ba6> <619d00930909240825v22226b72h2be8ae0b08c4e5b9@mail.gmail.com> <4ABB936C.9000405@dottedi.biz> <177c0a10909241138g214761dav4f32810d52b2bab4@mail.gmail.com> <2F9E2DDE-0B5B-49B3-9755-7B59D2425056@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <4AC0D1E0.6070603@dottedi.biz> Martin Burns wrote: > Oh it should always be on the clock and communicated as such, but as > Joel suggested, you may like to take a considered case-by-case view as > to whether you actually bill for it. > > That way, the client *knows* when they're getting unpaid work; even if > you don't draw the inference directly, they will feel that they owe > you a bit. > > Cheers > Martin It's all case by case. Sometimes when you operate in a vacuum you need to step out and entertain how others handle similar situations. Next chapter in the thread. Probably many of us manage web hosting and perhaps separately, email hosting, for our clients, which of course leads to regular charges from the service providers and maybe some "administrative" time. In my case I use different services for webhosting and email hosting because email hosting is not a core competency of the web hosting provider (diplomatically put). Unfortunately for me and some of the rest reading this message I do not yet have an automated billing system to handle payments efficiently, thus am currently invoicing quarterly and regularly see payments one to two months later. That's quite a lot of holding time due to my laziness. Q1) General feedback please? Q2) Any suggestions on automated and/or recurring payment solutions? Yes I can set up recurring payments through PayPal, but there is a fee and it "feels" awkward. Q3) Payment discounts - any feedback on offering payment discounts such as 2%10, net30? -Bob From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Mon Sep 28 12:54:03 2009 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Edward McCarroll) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:54:03 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Please take YOURSELF off of these emails In-Reply-To: <150268.85667.qm@web50712.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <150268.85667.qm@web50712.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45E4908264504E8686CF511F11115D30@optiplex755> > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org From spirony at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 14:20:47 2009 From: spirony at gmail.com (Tony Spiro) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:20:47 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application Message-ID: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> I have two email lists, a 3000 + email list and an email list of 600 users registered on my website. I have just recently started sending two weekly newsletters one to the large email list and the other to the 600 +users, both with a hand-coded while loop and mail() function. For about two weeks the 600 user list was working great, and now it's not working. This is my first attempt at my own email newsletter application, needless to say, it's having some problems: --It is really slow! --It only sends out about 150 to the 3000 + email list Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email newsletter application for my site. Thanks in advance, Tony From spirony at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 22:31:42 2009 From: spirony at gmail.com (Tony Spiro) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:31:42 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e5635650909282031u5684da3rc692b4f6fae9ef7d@mail.gmail.com> Anyone have any recommendations? On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Tony Spiro wrote: > I have two email lists, a 3000 + email list and an email list of 600 users > registered on my website. I have just recently started sending two weekly > newsletters one to the large email list and the other to the 600 +users, > both with a hand-coded while loop and mail() function. For about two weeks > the 600 user list was working great, and now it's not working. This is my > first attempt at my own email newsletter application, needless to say, it's > having some problems: > > --It is really slow! > --It only sends out about 150 to the 3000 + email list > > Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email > newsletter application for my site. > > Thanks in advance, > Tony > From jayturley at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 01:16:14 2009 From: jayturley at gmail.com (Jay Turley) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:16:14 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? Message-ID: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> After a particularly atrocious Vista crash (my 3rd in 8 months), and following the unsurprising failure of reinstallation to fix my laptop, I bit the bullet and installed Ubuntu 9.04 Desktop. So now, I want to recreate my web dev environment as much as I can. I had the WAMP stack, mySQL, and I used Notepad++ as an editor. So I'm looking for information from those who may be more experienced as to which tools I should use for a text editor, and the best way to get the LAMP stack operating on my "new" laptop. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Jay From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 02:16:42 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:16:42 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> On 28 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Tony Spiro wrote: > Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email > newsletter > application for my site. Do you need it personalising for each recipient? Or is it for a standard mailing list type thingy, except that you're the only one who can send to it? Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 01:59:44 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:59:44 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> > So now, I want to recreate my web dev environment as much as I can. I had > the WAMP stack, mySQL, and I used Notepad++ as an editor. Notepad++: http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/nppLinux.php but I would recommend switching to a native editor. Notepad++ is based on scintilla: http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html if you really like that. But there are plenty of others. LAMP: http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_lamp_for_newbies https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP http://www.ubuntugeek.com/step-by-step-ubuntu-904-jaunty-lamp-server-setup.html Took 30 seconds on Google to find those. I have setup LAMP on an Ubuntu workstation once or twice--just follow the directions and you should be OK. F From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 02:15:26 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:15:26 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6FC99405-3261-466B-A64D-E169E22D77E7@easyweb.co.uk> On 29 Sep 2009, at 07:16, Jay Turley wrote: > So I'm looking for information from those who may be more > experienced as to > which tools I should use for a text editor, Eclipse > and the best way to get the LAMP > stack operating on my "new" laptop. Should be there in the repositories... Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From jayturley at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 03:27:19 2009 From: jayturley at gmail.com (Jay Turley) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:27:19 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:59 PM, Fred Jones wrote: > > LAMP: > http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_lamp_for_newbies > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP > http://www.ubuntugeek.com/step-by-step-ubuntu-904-jaunty-lamp-server-setup.html > > Took 30 seconds on Google to find those. I have setup LAMP on an > Ubuntu workstation once or twice--just follow the directions and you > should be OK. > Yeah I found a bunch of instructions by googling too. It's just that as is often with Linux there's a plethora of slightly different versions of how to do it. Setting up our server at work was less troublesome because there's a nice server guide I could follow. :) Thanks for the links and info. -Jay From spirony at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 04:44:52 2009 From: spirony at gmail.com (Tony Spiro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:44:52 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> <94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> I would like it to send to personal email addresses because I think my mail server restricts how many I can send at one time and it looks more personal to send to their email rather than bcc. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:16 AM, Martin Burns wrote: > > On 28 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Tony Spiro wrote: > > > Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email > > newsletter > > application for my site. > > > Do you need it personalising for each recipient? Or is it for a > standard mailing list type thingy, except that you're the only one who > can send to it? > > Cheers > Martin > > -- > > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From nan at nanharbison.com Tue Sep 29 05:26:52 2009 From: nan at nanharbison.com (Nan Harbison) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:26:52 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com><94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2408F1342B044C83905F9A71AC9D10FD@nancyb0bda4ba6> I do some email stuff, but it is not a big area of expertise for me, so what I say here is to the best of my knowledge. If I am wrong, someone please correct me! Do you host this website, or do you have a webhost? If your email app worked and then stopped working, could it be that your webhost or internet provider has shut you off? Or you might have a maximum on this. Also, are these marketing emails and do you provide an opt out for recipients? I think nowadays, legally, you have to provide an opt out if you sent emails, even if people signed up for your email. Maybe this isn't relevant? I stopped email myself and use an email marketing website, like Constant Contact, but all these sites will shut you down if they get any complaints. Nan -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tony Spiro Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:45 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application I would like it to send to personal email addresses because I think my mail server restricts how many I can send at one time and it looks more personal to send to their email rather than bcc. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:16 AM, Martin Burns wrote: > > On 28 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Tony Spiro wrote: > > > Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email > > newsletter application for my site. > > > Do you need it personalising for each recipient? Or is it for a > standard mailing list type thingy, except that you're the only one who > can send to it? > > Cheers > Martin > > -- > > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and > archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, > evolt ! > -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 07:56:49 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:56:49 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Jay Turley wrote: > Setting up our server at work was less > troublesome because there's a nice server guide I could follow. :) Then why not just use that? Just curious. Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be worth it in the long run. Re: editors -- I love jEdit for its configurability, but also use NetBeans and vi(m) at times. HTH, and have fun :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 09:02:54 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:02:54 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> > Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager > Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache > and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be worth it > in the long run. In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless you need something very specific... > Re: editors -- I love jEdit for its configurability, but also use NetBeans > and vi(m) at times. +1 for jEdit. Also I use Xfce--I like it better than Gnome or KDE. It also Windows-like, which may at least be good for a newbie. I am considering dwm [1] but that's very geeky. :) F [1] http://dwm.suckless.org/ From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 09:24:09 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:24:09 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0909290724g59b5b0a9t74faeb4762da075f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Fred Jones wrote: >> Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager >> Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache >> and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be worth it >> in the long run. > > In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless > you need something very specific... My aversion to most package managers is primarily because of the assumption you'll only ever have one version of something on your system, and being dependent on the packager to make releases of new versions available. It's better to be able to install and test multiple versions of things in parallel, and to be able to install the very latest release immediately (particularly when it's a security bugfix). IMO. -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Sep 29 09:27:12 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:27:12 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <2408F1342B044C83905F9A71AC9D10FD@nancyb0bda4ba6> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com><94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> <2408F1342B044C83905F9A71AC9D10FD@nancyb0bda4ba6> Message-ID: <4AC21940.8090301@dottedi.biz> -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tony Spiro > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:45 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application > > I would like it to send to personal email addresses because I think my mail > server restricts how many I can send at one time and it looks more personal > to send to their email rather than bcc. > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:16 AM, Martin Burns wrote: > > >> On 28 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Tony Spiro wrote: >> >> >>> Can someone please tell me what my best option is for a PHP email >>> newsletter application for my site. >>> >> Do you need it personalising for each recipient? Or is it for a >> standard mailing list type thingy, except that you're the only one who >> can send to it? >> >> Cheers >> Martin >> www.dadamail.com is doable. the free version will do most of what you want with a batch of email addresses; the commercial version (one time license fee) I think allows some additional personalization (probably people names). you can import/export addresses as you wish from .csv. many hosting providers have either hourly or daily limits for sending messages. with hostgator the limit is 500/hr; 200 is common. place a service request to the provider to find out. then you do some simple math, edit the seconds between messages configuration to run under the radar screen. the component i use on my joomla websites does similar, different terminology i think they call it throttling. the other thing on any of these programs to note is what happens during a service interruption of any sort, local-network-computer. read the manual to learn whether it auto-restarts or you have to access a page and jump-start it. -- Bob Meetin Rocket Science - the Art of Managing Distractions From barney at clickwork.net Tue Sep 29 11:08:16 2009 From: barney at clickwork.net (Barney Carroll) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:08:16 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Pseudo-content (:before, :after) doesn't work on form elements Message-ID: <472577830909290908o245d0ed3j557dbd760557caf8@mail.gmail.com> Hello list, I have found that it's impossible to attach CSS pseudo elements to interactive form elements [http://barneycarroll.com/pseudo/] ? does anybody know why this is? Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carroll at gmail.com 07594 506 381 From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 14:09:52 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:09:52 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> On 29 Sep 2009, at 15:02, Fred Jones wrote: >> Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager >> Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache >> and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be >> worth it >> in the long run. > > In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless > you need something very specific... And for production use too - otherwise you won't get the security updates nicely. It works for Debian Stable; it works for Ubuntu. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 14:15:29 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:15:29 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <177c0a10909291215o5ed56ec1x9fdbf9d19e229b0c@mail.gmail.com> >> In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless >> you need something very specific... > > And for production use too - otherwise you won't get the security > updates nicely. Well you may not always want them. My workstation wanted to upgrade to PHP 5.3 but I read that some software I test on it won't work on 5.3. So I had to stop that upgrade. :) F From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 14:21:38 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:21:38 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Martin Burns wrote: >> In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless >> you need something very specific... > And for production use too - otherwise you won't get the security > updates nicely. I didn't realize "nicely" was a synonym for "late or never"... :-) > It works for Debian Stable; it works for Ubuntu. Example: Debian's package list has Tomcat 5.5.26 -- 5.5.28 has been out quite a while, and the actual current Tomcat is 6.0.20 ... Sorry, not impressed. -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 14:08:29 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:08:29 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> <94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <646539A2-9441-44D2-B8AA-EA0C6D5F1662@easyweb.co.uk> On 29 Sep 2009, at 10:44, Tony Spiro wrote: > I would like it to send to personal email addresses because I think > my mail > server restricts how many I can send at one time and it looks more > personal > to send to their email rather than bcc. Understood, but does the actual email subject/body need to contain personalisation? If not, a good ol' mailing list app like Mailman (that runs evolt's lists) would do it nicely. You can lock it down such that only a designated address can post; replies come to a defined address (say yours), but don't get redistributed.[1] Cheers Martin [1] Of course, allowing your members to converse amongst themselves may be no bad thing... Cluetrain is as true as ever -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 14:12:18 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:12:18 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909290724g59b5b0a9t74faeb4762da075f@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290724g59b5b0a9t74faeb4762da075f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 29 Sep 2009, at 15:24, Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Fred Jones > wrote: >>> Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager >>> Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache >>> and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be >>> worth it >>> in the long run. >> >> In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. Unless >> you need something very specific... > > My aversion to most package managers is primarily because of the > assumption you'll only ever have one version of something on your > system, and being dependent on the packager to make releases of > new versions available. Different configs are something else, but otherwise: > It's better to ... > be able to install the very latest release immediately > (particularly when it's a security bugfix). IMO. Debian-based distros are *very* good at this. Neat Debian Stable particularly so. And don't require you to proactively manually scan for updates. Updates for new whizziness; not so much, but Ubuntu will at least give you the latest (but tested) goodness every 6 months. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From kipper_timmins at live.co.uk Tue Sep 29 14:53:32 2009 From: kipper_timmins at live.co.uk (Kevin Timmins) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:53:32 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com><177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Jay Turley wrote: > >> Setting up our server at work was less >> troublesome because there's a nice server guide I could follow. :) > > Then why not just use that? Just curious. > > Overall, I would suggest avoiding using whatever package manager > Ubuntu uses, and install everything directly: MySQL binary, Apache > and PHP from source. It'll take you a little longer but it'll be worth it > in the long run. > > Re: editors -- I love jEdit for its configurability, but also use NetBeans > and vi(m) at times. +1 for Vi(m) in the terminal, its great for over ssh :) as regards to the repositories, ubuntu only really releases stuff it has tested and deems safe, so the repository installs should be just fine, if you want to get them in the terminal its just sudo apt-get install [name of program] eg sudo apt-get install mysql its fairly helpful in how to get things and install them, you probably want apache too. kev > > HTH, and have fun :-) > -- > Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com > twitter: @hassan > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 29 14:22:20 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:22:20 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <177c0a10909291215o5ed56ec1x9fdbf9d19e229b0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <177c0a10909291215o5ed56ec1x9fdbf9d19e229b0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6AC9811A-F736-40CB-9381-81B2CBACFCAE@easyweb.co.uk> On 29 Sep 2009, at 20:15, Fred Jones wrote: >>> In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. >>> Unless >>> you need something very specific... >> >> And for production use too - otherwise you won't get the security >> updates nicely. > > Well you may not always want them. My workstation wanted to upgrade to > PHP 5.3 but I read that some software I test on it won't work on 5.3. > So I had to stop that upgrade. :) Package-managed updates shouldn't upgrade functional versions; just provide necessary defect/security fix updates. This is strictly enforced in Debian (and Ubuntu I think); don't know what other distros' policy is. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From spirony at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 18:29:51 2009 From: spirony at gmail.com (Tony Spiro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:29:51 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Best PHP Email Newsletter Application In-Reply-To: <646539A2-9441-44D2-B8AA-EA0C6D5F1662@easyweb.co.uk> References: <2e5635650909281220w30b79722wc632694faf85401d@mail.gmail.com> <94A08E0E-4DC2-4C10-912F-827A1DC60AC4@easyweb.co.uk> <2e5635650909290244g3425fe4xd308be0d1c32f8bd@mail.gmail.com> <646539A2-9441-44D2-B8AA-EA0C6D5F1662@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <2e5635650909291629g5b6be01am6acc5459dd3e7595@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all your responses! I'm thinking that SMTP is the way to avoid this issue. I stumbled upon this site and think I'll try the PHP Mailer package: http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpmailer/files/phpmailer%20for%20php5_6/ Found it recommended on this site: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/977592/what-smtp-server-does-php-mail-use-by-default-and-are-there-better-options I'm fairly new to the concept of SMTP and how the server sends mail and how to avoid the server email limit. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Tony On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Martin Burns wrote: > > On 29 Sep 2009, at 10:44, Tony Spiro wrote: > > > I would like it to send to personal email addresses because I think > > my mail > > server restricts how many I can send at one time and it looks more > > personal > > to send to their email rather than bcc. > > > Understood, but does the actual email subject/body need to contain > personalisation? > > If not, a good ol' mailing list app like Mailman (that runs evolt's > lists) would do it nicely. You can lock it down such that only a > designated address can post; replies come to a defined address (say > yours), but don't get redistributed.[1] > > Cheers > Martin > [1] Of course, allowing your members to converse amongst themselves > may be no bad thing... Cluetrain is as true as ever > -- > > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From jayturley at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 20:26:48 2009 From: jayturley at gmail.com (Jay Turley) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:26:48 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <6AC9811A-F736-40CB-9381-81B2CBACFCAE@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <177c0a10909291215o5ed56ec1x9fdbf9d19e229b0c@mail.gmail.com> <6AC9811A-F736-40CB-9381-81B2CBACFCAE@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <61ed1fc20909291826l13aff293l3f79e0f48331f9ca@mail.gmail.com> Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. And for the inevitable technical discussion ;-) -Jay On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Martin Burns wrote: > > On 29 Sep 2009, at 20:15, Fred Jones wrote: > > >>> In my experience the packages are OK for simple local testing. > >>> Unless > >>> you need something very specific... > >> > >> And for production use too - otherwise you won't get the security > >> updates nicely. > > > > Well you may not always want them. My workstation wanted to upgrade to > > PHP 5.3 but I read that some software I test on it won't work on 5.3. > > So I had to stop that upgrade. :) > > > Package-managed updates shouldn't upgrade functional versions; just > provide necessary defect/security fix updates. > > This is strictly enforced in Debian (and Ubuntu I think); don't know > what other distros' policy is. > > Cheers > Martin > > -- > > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From viggie at viggie.com Wed Sep 30 00:32:34 2009 From: viggie at viggie.com (Viggie) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:02:34 +0530 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1254288754.7311.22.camel@dell> Hi Jay, I prefer to use Synaptic Package Manager for LAMP install. After using the simple 'Mark packages by Task' to select LAMP server, I do a quick search within Synaptic to find apache mods & php modules such as imagemagick, gd2, curl, mcrypt, xmlrpc etc., and install them only after marking all the extra modules. It's really much easier to customize as you wish using synaptic. I also install /home in a separate partition and use a folder within my account as 'document root' for apache. So it will be easier to edit & if ever I decide to change to another linux flavor my localhost files will be intact. I was a regular user of Notepad++ in Windows. My preference in ubuntu are Bluefish (for all editing) & Cssed (mostly for css). Bluefish looked a bit bare at first, but on continued usage I find it convenient. Hope that helps, cheers, Viggie ___________________________ Helping websites to work http://www.viggie.com From jayturley at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 02:12:37 2009 From: jayturley at gmail.com (Jay Turley) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:12:37 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <1254288754.7311.22.camel@dell> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <1254288754.7311.22.camel@dell> Message-ID: <61ed1fc20909300012i1d671f14u19cdea9db55b0b5b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Viggie, that was some great information! I just finished installing the LAMP stack with apt-get, and now I'm wondering what happens if I try to mix this sort of thing up. Like if - for instance - I use the Synaptic Package Manager to install curl and gd2, will it freak out? I looked up by task, and it now shows that my desktop is configured to act as a LAMP server with many of the php5 extensions/modules/? included. So I guess that means I did it right. That "by task" is pretty cool; without your email I would never have known it was there. I'll check out Bluefish in addition to the other recommendations. -Jay On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Viggie wrote: > Hi Jay, > > I prefer to use Synaptic Package Manager for LAMP install. After using > the simple 'Mark packages by Task' to select LAMP server, I do a quick > search within Synaptic to find apache mods & php modules such as > imagemagick, gd2, curl, mcrypt, xmlrpc etc., and install them only > after marking all the extra modules. > > It's really much easier to customize as you wish using synaptic. I > also install /home in a separate partition and use a folder within my > account as 'document root' for apache. So it will be easier to edit & > if ever I decide to change to another linux flavor my localhost files > will be intact. > > I was a regular user of Notepad++ in Windows. My preference in ubuntu > are Bluefish (for all editing) & Cssed (mostly for css). Bluefish > looked a bit bare at first, but on continued usage I find it > convenient. > > Hope that helps, > > cheers, > Viggie > ___________________________ > Helping websites to work > http://www.viggie.com > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Wed Sep 30 01:39:25 2009 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:39:25 +1000 Subject: [thelist] pricing for web sites? In-Reply-To: References: <119701ca3bd7$d49df6d0$7dd9e470$@com> <619d00930909221727y18f59fd7o2d744a2fda4567c@mail.gmail.com> <11c601ca3bee$89e74210$9db5c630$@com> <4AB9846F.7050301@chelseacreekstudio.com> <177c0a10909230215n4f601ba3qc44fdb563ef29778@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Randal Rust Subject: Re: [thelist] pricing for web sites? > Every big consultant out there, like Accenture, or your lawyer, bills by the hour. Not always. I work for an ACN subsidiary, and I know we do some (rarely) fixed price work. Most is T&M Cheers Ken From lee.kowalkowski at googlemail.com Wed Sep 30 03:53:34 2009 From: lee.kowalkowski at googlemail.com (Lee Kowalkowski) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:34 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Pseudo-content (:before, :after) doesn't work on form elements In-Reply-To: <472577830909290908o245d0ed3j557dbd760557caf8@mail.gmail.com> References: <472577830909290908o245d0ed3j557dbd760557caf8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <610592c90909300153j430d479cn8557af4fabdf4158@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/29 Barney Carroll : > I have found that it's impossible to attach CSS pseudo elements to > interactive form elements [http://barneycarroll.com/pseudo/] ? does anybody > know why this is? Hmm, it's just not supported? Opera seems to be the only browser that does it - at the expense of the appearance of the form controls. I've never had any time for the content property. I struggle to justify having content in CSS. -- Lee www.webdeavour.co.uk From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Sep 30 01:55:01 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:55:01 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 29 Sep 2009, at 20:21, Hassan Schroeder wrote: >> It works for Debian Stable; it works for Ubuntu. > > Example: Debian's package list has Tomcat 5.5.26 I'm assuming Stable here... > -- 5.5.28 has been > out quite a while, and the actual current Tomcat is 6.0.20 ... Indeed, and that's A Good Thing (and a deliberate design decision by Debian) for stable production servers. Otherwise you get exactly the situation that Fred complained of. 5.5.26 is the *supported* version for Debian. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 09:58:34 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:58:34 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Martin Burns wrote: >> Example: Debian's package list has Tomcat 5.5.26 >> -- 5.5.28 has been >> out quite a while, and the actual current Tomcat is 6.0.20 ... > 5.5.26 is the *supported* version for Debian. You cited package management as a way to ensure "security" fixes were immediately available. That's obviously not true, as 5.5.26 has vulnerabilities fixed in 5.5.27, which in turn has vulnerabilities fixed in 5.5.28, which was released 2009-06-19. IMO, it's far better -- and safer -- to install software properly yourself in a way that facilitates having multiple versions in parallel so you can upgrade and test without depending on the "packaging" schedule of someone else. FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From bobm at dottedi.biz Wed Sep 30 09:59:00 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:59:00 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts Message-ID: <4AC37234.5000002@dottedi.biz> Perhaps the original thread had over-morphed and needed a new Subject? Feedback is appreciated, especially the automated payment solution bit. If you do act as a hosting go-between, do you commonly mark up the hosting charges say 25 - 50% or perhaps a flat fee to account for managing the account? I ran into one business that marks it up many-fold, somewhat shockingly so and has gotten away with it but I'm sure doesn't land many kudos. What is fair? Next chapter in the thread. Probably many of us manage web hosting and perhaps separately, email hosting, for our clients, which of course leads to regular charges from the service providers and maybe some "administrative" time. In my case I use different services for webhosting and email hosting because email hosting is not a core competency of the web hosting provider (diplomatically put). Unfortunately for me and some of the rest reading this message I do not yet have an automated billing system to handle payments efficiently, thus am currently invoicing quarterly and regularly see payments one to two months later. That's quite a lot of holding time due to my laziness. Q1) General feedback please? Q2) Any suggestions on automated and/or recurring payment solutions? Yes I can set up recurring payments through PayPal, but there is a fee and it "feels" awkward. Q3) Payment discounts - any feedback on offering payment discounts such as 2%10, net30? From eccentric.one at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 10:15:43 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:15:43 -0500 Subject: [thelist] trouble w/ JOINs in an Oracle query Message-ID: I'm baaaack, and need help with another query, please. Before you see the query know that 1) I didn't write it, just modified it 2) I'm still working on my formatting convention a bit, sorry if there's too many tabs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SELECT To_Char(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.STARTED,'YYYY-MM') AS STARTMONTH , Sum(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.TOTALTIME) AS SUMOFTOTALTIME FROM CORR.USERS INNER JOIN ( ( ( CORR.WORKORDERSQUAWKS INNER JOIN CORR.WORKORDERITEMS ON CORR.WORKORDERSQUAWKS.ITEMKEY = CORR.WORKORDERITEMS.ITEMKEY ) INNER JOIN CORR.WORKORDERCUSTOMERS ON CORR.WORKORDERITEMS.WORKORDERKEY = CORR.WORKORDERCUSTOMERS.WORKORDERKEY ) INNER JOIN CORR.WORKORDERLABOR ON CORR.WORKORDERSQUAWKS.SQUAWKKEY = CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.SQUAWKKEY ) ON CORR.USERS.USERKEY = CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.PERFORMEDBYKEY WHERE To_Char(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.STARTED, 'YYYY-MM') >= '2009-01' AND To_Char(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.STARTED, 'YYYY-MM') <= '2009-09' AND CORR.USERS.DEPARTMENTKEY = $deptkey AND CORR.WORKORDERITEMS.COSTWORKORDERCUSTOMER LIKE '%$customername%' GROUP BY CORR.USERS.DEPARTMENTKEY , To_Char(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.STARTED, 'YYYY-MM'); ORDER BY To_Char(CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.STARTED,'YYYY-MM') "; ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The above query works great except that it only returns rows when both columns exist, as it rightly should since it's an INNER JOIN. However, I need it to return all columns where STARTMONTH exists even if there aren't any matching entries CORR.WORKORDERLABOR.TOTALTIME. For example, the current query returns something like: 2009-1|39 2009-3|42 And I'm wanting: 2009-1|39 2009-2| 2009-3|42 I think all I need to do is change a JOIN, but thus far I haven't managed to get that to work. I've rewritten the FROM clause in quite a few different ways, changing the order of the tables, trying various JOIN types, etc. and still haven't been able to get the results I need. Someone, please save my sanity. ;) Thanks, Jeremy From sales at lycosa.co.uk Wed Sep 30 18:37:02 2009 From: sales at lycosa.co.uk (Sales @ Lycosa) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 00:37:02 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts In-Reply-To: <4AC37234.5000002@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <915FA58763B34B7B9D4772D97B968EEE@DEV> > If you do act as a hosting go-between, do you commonly mark up the hosting charges... What is fair? Depends what added value you give. For example, I resell hosting to my web clients. This is more a convenience for me, so that I have the servers set up exactly how I need to run the software I write for them. I certainly mark up the cost of the hosting, and *if* I fully sold an entire server, I would be making a healthy income on the hosting alone. But I don't really sell hosting per se, just to my web customers. I am always their first port of call when things go wrong, and I spend a great deal of time resolving issues. I don't charge for this time. So, my customers are getting 'free' support with their hosting. > ...email hosting... I offer email as part of the web hosting, and I spend more time resolving email problems than web problems. The hosting comes with cPanel, so it doesn't cost me any more for hosting email accounts. > ...automated billing system... Yeah, I worked a manual system for about 4/5 years, and it just became unmanageable. I did a lot of research and testing of different automated systems, and I found WHMCS the easiest to work with. Although it doesn't have everything I need (like a Quick Books plugin, but it is planned), and some of the features are set up more for a customer to do themselves, I find the automation has freed me up. I receive cheques from customers for bills I didn't know had gone out. And you can send a reminder with a simple click of a button. Chasing payment becomes less personal - you can 'blame' the automated system for sending so many reminders! I don't think any system will be a 100% perfect fit for every business, so it's a case of choosing something that does the most important 90%. What I love about WHMCS is that you can create, up/down grade and delete hosting accounts on any number of servers, running pretty much any OS and it is flexible enough to allow modification of set hosting prices. It allows domain registration through 3rd party registrars, and allows numerous payment methods (but not cash!). It has automated suspension of accounts that are late payment, which is an alternative to the idea of offering discounts for early payment. I personally have turned this feature off, but it would certainly be an incentive for very late payers. Again, you can blame the system for turning the customer's website off. Phil Parker www.lycosa.co.uk From viggie at viggie.com Wed Sep 30 22:17:08 2009 From: viggie at viggie.com (Viggie) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:47:08 +0530 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <61ed1fc20909300012i1d671f14u19cdea9db55b0b5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <1254288754.7311.22.camel@dell> <61ed1fc20909300012i1d671f14u19cdea9db55b0b5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1254367028.7689.19.camel@dell> Hi Jay Thanks for the comments, Even if we install packages through apt-get, it reflects in Synaptic. So I guess it is easier to add additional php modules through synaptic. After adding them be sure to restart apache. Since it is a new install it would be easier to experiment. regards, Viggie On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 00:12 -0700, Jay Turley wrote: > Thanks, Viggie, that was some great information! > > I just finished installing the LAMP stack with apt-get, and now I'm > wondering what happens if I try to mix this sort of thing up. Like if - for > instance - I use the Synaptic Package Manager to install curl and gd2, will > it freak out? > > I looked up by task, and it now shows that my desktop is configured to act > as a LAMP server with many of the php5 extensions/modules/? included. > > So I guess that means I did it right. That "by task" is pretty cool; without > your email I would never have known it was there. > > I'll check out Bluefish in addition to the other recommendations. > > -Jay > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Viggie wrote: > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I prefer to use Synaptic Package Manager for LAMP install. After using > > the simple 'Mark packages by Task' to select LAMP server, I do a quick > > search within Synaptic to find apache mods & php modules such as > > imagemagick, gd2, curl, mcrypt, xmlrpc etc., and install them only > > after marking all the extra modules. > > > > It's really much easier to customize as you wish using synaptic. I > > also install /home in a separate partition and use a folder within my > > account as 'document root' for apache. So it will be easier to edit & > > if ever I decide to change to another linux flavor my localhost files > > will be intact. > > > > I was a regular user of Notepad++ in Windows. My preference in ubuntu > > are Bluefish (for all editing) & Cssed (mostly for css). Bluefish > > looked a bit bare at first, but on continued usage I find it > > convenient. > > > > Hope that helps, > > > > cheers, > > Viggie > > ___________________________ > > Helping websites to work > > http://www.viggie.com > > From martin at easyweb.co.uk Thu Oct 1 01:12:56 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:12:56 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <61ed1fc20909300012i1d671f14u19cdea9db55b0b5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <1254288754.7311.22.camel@dell> <61ed1fc20909300012i1d671f14u19cdea9db55b0b5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88A065CB-ED38-4319-B72B-586BD02A34F2@easyweb.co.uk> On 30 Sep 2009, at 08:12, Jay Turley wrote: > I just finished installing the LAMP stack with apt-get, and now I'm > wondering what happens if I try to mix this sort of thing up. Like > if - for > instance - I use the Synaptic Package Manager to install curl and > gd2, will > it freak out? Nope - Aptitude (and the apt packaging system its built on) are designed to avoid that kind of thing, and to ensure that all dependencies are also installed. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Thu Oct 1 01:11:55 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:11:55 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> On 30 Sep 2009, at 15:58, Hassan Schroeder wrote: >> 5.5.26 is the *supported* version for Debian. > > You cited package management as a way to ensure "security" fixes > were immediately available. That's obviously not true, as 5.5.26 has > vulnerabilities fixed in 5.5.27, which in turn has vulnerabilities > fixed > in 5.5.28, which was released 2009-06-19. > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From beertastic at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 05:57:47 2009 From: beertastic at gmail.com (Tris) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:57:47 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Running code on ajax success? Message-ID: <8b20a7490910010357o75150aa7ke5d19e3151726f3a@mail.gmail.com> Hi all.. Ajax. love it.. but today... Grrr... I'm passing a javascript object to an external page. What I want to happen is when it is successful, to run some code... when it failes I get an error alert.. but when it succeeds, the sucess code does not run... but it DOES succeed.. I want this to happen in success: $('#headline').html("Thank you!"); but it doesn't... Anyone know whta I'm missing?? $.ajax({ type: "POST", url: "https://www.mysite.com/capturepage/", data: theOrderObj, async: false, error: function(){ alert("that didn't work."); }, success: function(data){ // alert('Ajax started'); var orderStat = data; var orderStatObj = eval('(' + orderStat + ')'); if(orderStatObj.order_success == ''){ var orderFailed = "We're sorry. The address you entered does not appear to be valid. Please review and try again"; if(orderStatObj.order_failed == orderFailed) { alert('Ajax failed'); } else { alert(orderStatObj.order_failed); } } else { $('#headline').html("Thank you!"); } } }); -- "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. Anon `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` Kurt Vonnegut `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.` Thomas Szasz From beertastic at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 05:59:41 2009 From: beertastic at gmail.com (Tris) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:59:41 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <8b20a7490910010359y19eeee2bq52f21968ef12c886@mail.gmail.com> I use: xampp Love it, quick easy and easy to get rid of too! ;-p 2009/10/1 Martin Burns : > > On 30 Sep 2009, at 15:58, Hassan Schroeder wrote: > >>> 5.5.26 is the *supported* version for Debian. >> >> You cited package management as a way to ensure "security" fixes >> were immediately available. That's obviously not true, as 5.5.26 has >> vulnerabilities fixed in 5.5.27, which in turn has vulnerabilities >> fixed >> in 5.5.28, which was released 2009-06-19. >> ? > > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that > took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. > > Cheers > Martin > > -- > ?> Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > ?> http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ > > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. Anon `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` Kurt Vonnegut `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.` Thomas Szasz From martin at easyweb.co.uk Thu Oct 1 01:16:37 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:16:37 +0100 Subject: [thelist] pricing for web sites? In-Reply-To: References: <119701ca3bd7$d49df6d0$7dd9e470$@com> <619d00930909221727y18f59fd7o2d744a2fda4567c@mail.gmail.com> <11c601ca3bee$89e74210$9db5c630$@com> <4AB9846F.7050301@chelseacreekstudio.com> <177c0a10909230215n4f601ba3qc44fdb563ef29778@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <90E3BAFA-1497-422A-83A6-A61BF1CC386E@easyweb.co.uk> On 30 Sep 2009, at 07:39, Ken Schaefer wrote: >> Every big consultant out there, like Accenture, or your lawyer, >> bills by the hour. > > Not always. I work for an ACN subsidiary, and I know we do some > (rarely) fixed price work. Most is T&M You may bill the client as FP, but internally, the project is tracking time. FP has the joy of having internal variable costs, but external fixed ones; that gives you (or whoever owns the project finances) all the financial risk. It also gives you the financial opportunity - if you can produce the agreed deliverables with *less* effort (fewer people/less time/cheaper people) then you've the potential for up-side. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Thu Oct 1 01:22:29 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:22:29 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts In-Reply-To: <4AC37234.5000002@dottedi.biz> References: <4AC37234.5000002@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <43B4E44B-A979-4E55-84F4-2C2B84C081F1@easyweb.co.uk> On 30 Sep 2009, at 15:59, Bob Meetin wrote: > If you do act as a hosting go-between, do you commonly mark up the > hosting charges say 25 - 50% or perhaps a flat fee to account for > managing the account? I ran into one business that marks it up > many-fold, somewhat shockingly so and has gotten away with it but I'm > sure doesn't land many kudos. What is fair? Whatever the client sees value in. If the client sees value in that larger fee, knowing they don't have to do any of the procurement (sourcing, selection, management, accounts payable, kicking when it goes wrong) for the hosting company, and can just have a single lead supplier for all that stuff then that's their business. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From rudy at r937.com Thu Oct 1 07:12:03 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:12:03 -0400 Subject: [thelist] trouble w/ JOINs in an Oracle query Message-ID: > The above query works great except that it only returns rows > when both columns exist, as it rightly should since it's an > INNER JOIN. then try LEFT OUTER JOIN ;o) also, use table aliases to make your query a bit easier to read always start your FROM clause with the most restricted table, in this case you have a WHERE condition on the users table (departmentkey) so this is what's driving the query SELECT TO_CHAR(l.started,'yyyy-mm') startmonth , SUM(l.totaltime) sumoftotaltime FROM corr.users u LEFT OUTER JOIN corr.workorderlabor l ON l.performedbykey = u.userkey AND l.started >= '2009-01-01' AND l.started < '2009-10-01' LEFT OUTER JOIN corr.workordersquawks s ON s.squawkkey = l.squawkkey LEFT OUTER JOIN corr.workorderitems i ON i.itemkey = s.itemkey AND i.costworkordercustomer LIKE '%$customername%' LEFT OUTER JOIN corr.workordercustomers c ON c.workorderkey = i.workorderkey WHERE u.departmentkey = $deptkey GROUP BY TO_CHAR(l.started, 'yyyy-mm') ORDER BY TO_CHAR(l.started, 'yyyy-mm') the last join, to workordercustomers, is not needed and can safely be omitted rudy From fredthejonester at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 07:36:56 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:36:56 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Stats Message-ID: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> I wrote to my hosting support and said: For site X, Webalizer shows: Total Visits: 2,698 Total Pages: 10,395 for September. But Awstats shows: Visits: 629 Pages: 6,353 for September. They said "The main difference is that Webalizer displays charts by calculating hits for all HTTP response codes. Awstats excludes results for the traffic "not viewed" by the visitors, and this causes the difference." Does this make sense? What does it mean traffic which is "not viewed?" Another site shows Visits/Pages 984/1877 in Webalizer and 319/651 in Awstats. At least the difference (of a factor of 2-4) seems consistent. :) Perhaps I should be using Google Analytics? They also said I could download and analyze the Apache logs myself, but I suppose I would still have to rely on a package like Webalizer or Awstats. Any information appreciated. Thanks, Fred From beertastic at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 05:59:52 2009 From: beertastic at gmail.com (Tris) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:59:52 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <8b20a7490910010359y19eeee2bq52f21968ef12c886@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <8b20a7490910010359y19eeee2bq52f21968ef12c886@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b20a7490910010359i6dad33ady4ed4738cd38289f9@mail.gmail.com> for LAMP dev I mean 2009/10/1 Tris : > I use: > xampp > Love it, quick easy and easy to get rid of too! ;-p > > 2009/10/1 Martin Burns : >> >> On 30 Sep 2009, at 15:58, Hassan Schroeder wrote: >> >>>> 5.5.26 is the *supported* version for Debian. >>> >>> You cited package management as a way to ensure "security" fixes >>> were immediately available. That's obviously not true, as 5.5.26 has >>> vulnerabilities fixed in 5.5.27, which in turn has vulnerabilities >>> fixed >>> in 5.5.28, which was released 2009-06-19. >>> ? >> >> However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that >> took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. >> >> Cheers >> Martin >> >> -- >> ?> Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter >> ?> http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> * * Please support the community that supports you. ?* * >> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ >> >> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester >> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org >> Workers of the Web, evolt ! >> > > > > -- > "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" > > Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. > Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. > Anon > > `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` > Kurt Vonnegut > > `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others > to laugh at him.` > Thomas Szasz > -- "The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything" Give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day. Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish. Anon `We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.` Kurt Vonnegut `When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.` Thomas Szasz From eccentric.one at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 09:45:48 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:45:48 -0500 Subject: [thelist] trouble w/ JOINs in an Oracle query In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:12 AM, r937 wrote: >> The above query works great except that it only returns rows >> when both columns exist, as it rightly should since it's an >> INNER JOIN. > > then try LEFT OUTER JOIN ? ?;o) Doh! I knew I forgot something. :) Actually, I tried. But, I didn't put the conditions in the JOIN statement like you did. Anywho, tested the query you sent. It appears to be totally ignoring the condition on i.costworkordercustomer. I tried a few things but the result was always either ignore i.costworkordercustomer or acting the same as before (meaning not all the rows were appearing that I wanted) I'm thinking, since both of the fields that I'm SELECTING are coming from the same table and I'm wanting one to always appear even if the other doesn't, should I be joining the table back to itself in addition to joining it to the other tables? In my finite little mind, it makes sense. But I've been unable to get that to work either. Oh, and good tip on placing the most restricted table first in the FROM clause. Thanks, Jeremy From volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 09:43:09 2009 From: volkan.ozcelik at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Volkan_=D6z=E7elik?=) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 17:43:09 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Running code on ajax success? In-Reply-To: <8b20a7490910010357o75150aa7ke5d19e3151726f3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b20a7490910010357o75150aa7ke5d19e3151726f3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Tris wrote: > when it failes I get an error alert.. but when it succeeds, the sucess > code does not run... but it DOES succeed.. > Do you see observe alert "ajax started" within the onsuccess method. If so, its most probably inside the onsuccess method body. Stepping through the code using Firebug will help. > var orderStatObj = eval('(' + orderStat + ')'); by the way eval's are "evil". You had better use a JSON parser if you can. HTH, -- Volkan Ozcelik +> Front End Architect, MessengerFX : http://www.messengerfx.com/ +> I tweet: http://twitter.com/linkibol +> linkibol.com - in seek for quality links : http://www.linkibol.com/ +> my blog (in Turkish) : http://www.fikribol.com/donkisot/ +> Sardalya JavaScript Library : http://www.sarmal.com/sardalya/ From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Oct 1 10:06:50 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:06:50 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts In-Reply-To: <915FA58763B34B7B9D4772D97B968EEE@DEV> References: <915FA58763B34B7B9D4772D97B968EEE@DEV> Message-ID: <4AC4C58A.30103@dottedi.biz> > >> ...email hosting... >> > I offer email as part of the web hosting, and I spend more time resolving > email problems than web problems. The hosting comes with cPanel, so it > doesn't cost me any more for hosting email accounts. > > >> ...automated billing system... >> > Yeah, I worked a manual system for about 4/5 years, and it just became > unmanageable. I did a lot of research and testing of different automated > systems, and I found WHMCS the easiest to work with. Although it doesn't > have everything I need (like a Quick Books plugin, but it is planned), and > some of the features are set up more for a customer to do themselves, I find > the automation has freed me up. I receive cheques from customers for bills I > didn't know had gone out. And you can send a reminder with a simple click of > a button. Chasing payment becomes less personal - you can 'blame' the > automated system for sending so many reminders! I don't think any system > will be a 100% perfect fit for every business, so it's a case of choosing > something that does the most important 90%. > What I love about WHMCS is that you can create, up/down grade and delete > hosting accounts on any number of servers, running pretty much any OS and it > is flexible enough to allow modification of set hosting prices. > It allows domain registration through 3rd party registrars, and allows > numerous payment methods (but not cash!). It has automated suspension of > accounts that are late payment, which is an alternative to the idea of > offering discounts for early payment. I personally have turned this feature > off, but it would certainly be an incentive for very late payers. Again, you > can blame the system for turning the customer's website off. > > Phil Parker > www.lycosa.co.uk > Phil, thx this is very helpful. True webhosting problems are rare, but I totally agree with you on email problems. I have written numerous FAQs which I reference for starting points. The problems are common and repetitive. Hostgator offers an administrator version of cPanel which I use to administer accounts. I looked at the feature list of WHMCS. It's pretty impressive and ostensibly does most of what cPanel does and more. In my case this is for shared hosting. Will WHMCS live side-by-side with reseller cPanel? If you are willing to share (public or private) which gateway(s) did you set it up to work with and did you go for the buy it vs lease it license? Thx, -- Bob Meetin www.dottedi.biz 303-926-0167 www.Twitter.com/bobmeetin Standards - you gotta love em with so many to choose from! Rocket Science - the Art of Managing Distractions From rudy at r937.com Thu Oct 1 10:12:51 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:12:51 -0400 Subject: [thelist] trouble w/ JOINs in an Oracle query Message-ID: <7C0AB0DBF41A43EC9F6DF0435D5EA6C9@curly> > Oh, and good tip on placing the most restricted table first in the FROM > clause. thanks although in this case i might also have started with the customer and traced my way through the table relationships that way i've re-read your original question, and now that i think about it, the year-months that are missing aren't going to pop magically out of thin air without special effort what i mean is, you can't pull missing data from the data itself, without something to compare it to, to see which ones are missing so the outer join concept is still correct, where the outer table will contain all year-months that you want reported you can create this table out of thin air, as it were, with the use of a numbers table in a derived query SELECT ... FROM ( SELECT '2009-01-01' -- start date + INTERVAL n MONTH AS sale_date FROM numbers WHERE n BETWEEN 0 AND 11 -- for 1 year ) sale_dates LEFT OUTER JOIN ... is this helpful? From rob at rob-n-steph.net Thu Oct 1 10:31:17 2009 From: rob at rob-n-steph.net (Robert Lee) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:31:17 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts In-Reply-To: <4AC4C58A.30103@dottedi.biz> References: <915FA58763B34B7B9D4772D97B968EEE@DEV> <4AC4C58A.30103@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <01c401ca42ac$3ce502d0$b6af0870$@net> I would second using WHMCS; I have my own servers and use Cpanel/WHM for management on my Linux box. Until now my clients have been billed via Quick Books, since I am also billing for programming and support time each month. I'm going to start offering hosting since I have extra room on the servers, and after a bunch of research WHMCS seems to be the most popular tool for managing these types of automatic payments (especially if you use Cpanel/WHM). It also integrates with WHM and as Phil pointed out, it can do a great deal of the work for you. HTH, Rob -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Bob Meetin Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:07 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts > >> ...email hosting... >> > I offer email as part of the web hosting, and I spend more time resolving > email problems than web problems. The hosting comes with cPanel, so it > doesn't cost me any more for hosting email accounts. > > >> ...automated billing system... >> > Yeah, I worked a manual system for about 4/5 years, and it just became > unmanageable. I did a lot of research and testing of different automated > systems, and I found WHMCS the easiest to work with. Although it doesn't > have everything I need (like a Quick Books plugin, but it is planned), and > some of the features are set up more for a customer to do themselves, I find > the automation has freed me up. I receive cheques from customers for bills I > didn't know had gone out. And you can send a reminder with a simple click of > a button. Chasing payment becomes less personal - you can 'blame' the > automated system for sending so many reminders! I don't think any system > will be a 100% perfect fit for every business, so it's a case of choosing > something that does the most important 90%. > What I love about WHMCS is that you can create, up/down grade and delete > hosting accounts on any number of servers, running pretty much any OS and it > is flexible enough to allow modification of set hosting prices. > It allows domain registration through 3rd party registrars, and allows > numerous payment methods (but not cash!). It has automated suspension of > accounts that are late payment, which is an alternative to the idea of > offering discounts for early payment. I personally have turned this feature > off, but it would certainly be an incentive for very late payers. Again, you > can blame the system for turning the customer's website off. > > Phil Parker > www.lycosa.co.uk > Phil, thx this is very helpful. True webhosting problems are rare, but I totally agree with you on email problems. I have written numerous FAQs which I reference for starting points. The problems are common and repetitive. Hostgator offers an administrator version of cPanel which I use to administer accounts. I looked at the feature list of WHMCS. It's pretty impressive and ostensibly does most of what cPanel does and more. In my case this is for shared hosting. Will WHMCS live side-by-side with reseller cPanel? If you are willing to share (public or private) which gateway(s) did you set it up to work with and did you go for the buy it vs lease it license? Thx, -- Bob Meetin www.dottedi.biz 303-926-0167 www.Twitter.com/bobmeetin Standards - you gotta love em with so many to choose from! Rocket Science - the Art of Managing Distractions -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From joel at bizba6.com Thu Oct 1 11:15:00 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:15:00 -0700 Subject: [thelist] pricing for web sites? In-Reply-To: <90E3BAFA-1497-422A-83A6-A61BF1CC386E@easyweb.co.uk> References: <119701ca3bd7$d49df6d0$7dd9e470$@com> <619d00930909221727y18f59fd7o2d744a2fda4567c@mail.gmail.com> <11c601ca3bee$89e74210$9db5c630$@com> <4AB9846F.7050301@chelseacreekstudio.com> <177c0a10909230215n4f601ba3qc44fdb563ef29778@mail.gmail.com> <90E3BAFA-1497-422A-83A6-A61BF1CC386E@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <619d00930910010915h7476eacdv99a0e5b963986b63@mail.gmail.com> > > It also gives you the financial opportunity - if you can produce the > agreed deliverables with *less* effort (fewer people/less time/cheaper > people) then you've the potential for up-side. and there's my great big 'bingo!' sure, once in a while, I eat it. but not often. personally, I consider it a sign of my professional expertise that I can offer fixed pricing, please my clientele, and still make a fair profit on each project. joel From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 09:40:36 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:40:36 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909282359g462e74bds7af1060410f1f1f8@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Martin Burns wrote: > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that > took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. I'm not particularly familiar with Debian in general -- where would I find information to confirm that? Because if so, that's extremely misleading -- Tomcat includes any security fixes in dot releases, not separately, so 5.5.26, distributed by anyone, would be presumed not to have anything in later builds. If it does... what a recipe for confusion. That's aside from the fact that security fixes may *cause* functionality changes, and need to be evaluated and tested like any other release. Sorry, but this is only confirming my dim view of this whole packaging approach. :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From rob at rob-n-steph.net Thu Oct 1 08:43:30 2009 From: rob at rob-n-steph.net (Robert Lee) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:43:30 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Stats In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01c001ca429d$2ac7db40$805791c0$@net> Fred, Not viewed traffic is bots, worms, etc (anything without a user viewing the page). I like the fact that Awstats removes this from the main numbers, since this doesn't reflect real visitors to the site. My issue with analytics is that you add extra overhead (both from a programming standpoint, and from a page load / bandwidth standpoint) to achieve something that is already being done for you (as long as Apache or IIS logging is available). Of the three that are on most hosting packages (Analog, Awstats, and Webalizer) I personally like AW stats the best. There is a lot more that can be done with it if you get into the config file. As for the raw logs, yes you would have to use an app to analyze them for you. They can be useful if you are looking for something that the stats app doesn't tell you, like the IP of some bot that ignores directives, or referral spammers, etc..., so that they can be blocked! HTH, Rob -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Fred Jones Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:37 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Stats I wrote to my hosting support and said: For site X, Webalizer shows: Total Visits: 2,698 Total Pages: 10,395 for September. But Awstats shows: Visits: 629 Pages: 6,353 for September. They said "The main difference is that Webalizer displays charts by calculating hits for all HTTP response codes. Awstats excludes results for the traffic "not viewed" by the visitors, and this causes the difference." Does this make sense? What does it mean traffic which is "not viewed?" Another site shows Visits/Pages 984/1877 in Webalizer and 319/651 in Awstats. At least the difference (of a factor of 2-4) seems consistent. :) Perhaps I should be using Google Analytics? They also said I could download and analyze the Apache logs myself, but I suppose I would still have to rely on a package like Webalizer or Awstats. Any information appreciated. Thanks, Fred -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From eccentric.one at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 11:16:58 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:16:58 -0500 Subject: [thelist] trouble w/ JOINs in an Oracle query In-Reply-To: <7C0AB0DBF41A43EC9F6DF0435D5EA6C9@curly> References: <7C0AB0DBF41A43EC9F6DF0435D5EA6C9@curly> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 10:12 AM, r937 wrote: > > what i mean is, you can't pull missing data from the data itself, without > something to compare it to, to see which ones are missing But.. I want the computer to do what I want it to do, not what I tell it to do!! :) > you can create this table out of thin air, as it were, with the use of a > numbers table in a derived query > > SELECT ... > ?FROM ( SELECT '2009-01-01' -- start date > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?+ INTERVAL n MONTH ? AS sale_date > ? ? ? ? ? FROM numbers > ? ? ? ? ?WHERE n BETWEEN 0 AND 11 -- for 1 year > ? ? ? ) sale_dates > LEFT OUTER > ?JOIN ... > The derived query gives me an error, 'ORA-00923: FROM keyword not found where expected'. But you put me back on the right track. After seeing that I've been looking at this incorrectly from the start and factoring in some other issues I'm having with the end report I'm trying to build, I think I'm going to step back and rethink this as there may be a better way to go about this whole thing. Thanks for setting me straight, Rudy. -jeremy From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 11:44:13 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:44:13 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Stats In-Reply-To: <01c001ca429d$2ac7db40$805791c0$@net> References: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> <01c001ca429d$2ac7db40$805791c0$@net> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910010944g120e37adxf3ff2315e1ed83bc@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Robert Lee wrote: > As for the raw logs, yes you would have to use an app to analyze them for > you. Nonsense. You can analyze log files other ways -- import them into a spreadsheet or database, or just do ad hoc slicing with shell utilities. -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Oct 1 11:48:58 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:48:58 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Automated payment systems and discounts In-Reply-To: <01c401ca42ac$3ce502d0$b6af0870$@net> References: <915FA58763B34B7B9D4772D97B968EEE@DEV> <4AC4C58A.30103@dottedi.biz> <01c401ca42ac$3ce502d0$b6af0870$@net> Message-ID: <4AC4DD7A.5010305@dottedi.biz> It only gets better - I checked with hostgator. They offer both WHM Autopilot and WHMCS with video installation tutorial as installation packages so the only expenses would be the secure certificate and a dedicated IP if you need one. -- Bob Meetin www.dottedi.biz From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Oct 1 12:04:59 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:04:59 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Stats In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910010944g120e37adxf3ff2315e1ed83bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> <01c001ca429d$2ac7db40$805791c0$@net> <4eedb92a0910010944g120e37adxf3ff2315e1ed83bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC4E13B.5060306@dottedi.biz> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Robert Lee wrote: > > >> As for the raw logs, yes you would have to use an app to analyze them for >> you. >> > > Nonsense. You can analyze log files other ways -- import them into a > spreadsheet or database, or just do ad hoc slicing with shell utilities. > The standard apache log files seem to be space delimited, look something like: 213.160.189.202 - - [31/Mar/2009:05:48:59 -0500] "GET /scripts/accordion/demo.php HTTP/1.1" 200 6384 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sk; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008052906 Firefox/3.0" You just have to figure out how to break up the fields so that the bits enclosed in double quotes are not treated as multiple fields. Then you can do things like delete image files, css, javascript, misc config files until you get to the meat of the matter. You can also identify bots and discount, eliminate stuff such as your IP hitting your own website. As Hassan alluded to, UNIX commands such as sort, sort -u, sed and awk are your command line friends. Your hosting provider may not have them enabled by default - they take ample disk space. With some cPanels you just need to find the function to enable them. -- Bob Meetin www.dottedi.biz 303-926-0167 www.Twitter.com/bobmeetin Standards - you gotta love em with so many to choose from! Rocket Science - the Art of Managing Distractions From moseley at hank.org Thu Oct 1 11:31:13 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:31:13 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Martin Burns > wrote: > > > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that > > took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. > > I'm not particularly familiar with Debian in general -- where would I > find information to confirm that? > http://www.debian.org/security/ http://www.debian.org/security/faq#handling -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 13:23:27 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:23:27 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909290556g4fdf5dfdt4cd65029488c6885@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: >> > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that >> > took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. >> >> I'm not particularly familiar with Debian in general -- where would I >> find information to confirm that? > > http://www.debian.org/security/ Thanks. As I thought, woefully out of date (and horribly muddled). -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From moseley at hank.org Thu Oct 1 13:44:20 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:44:20 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <177c0a10909290702m4a2e1739q194b6f5cb4aa23f7@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16f65d000910011144p7139074fv9a7789a56623cb6c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Hassan Schroeder < hassan.schroeder at gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: > > >> > However, there have been intermediate security fixes *for Debian* that > >> > took care of that. You shouldn't mix fixes with functionality changes. > >> > >> I'm not particularly familiar with Debian in general -- where would I > >> find information to confirm that? > > > > http://www.debian.org/security/ > > Thanks. As I thought, woefully out of date (and horribly muddled). > Are you refering to Debian or yourself? ;) Going the package route is the way to go if just starting out like the OP is. It's not that hard to compile from source but that won't make the change from Windows any easier. Likely, a lot more people are using packaged version so bugs are more likely to pop up. Security updates come automatically -- so if you are not paying attention to every bit of self-compiled code's email list you are safer. I get security updates a few times a week on my Ubuntu desktop. At work with a number of applications running on dozens of machines you can imagine the trouble we have keeping up with self compiled apps. We build packages, but it's still a task and we manage to break things. Moving away form self-compiled apps for this reason and yes giving up newest features sometimes. Stability and security are where it's at. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From rob at rob-n-steph.net Thu Oct 1 14:22:54 2009 From: rob at rob-n-steph.net (Robert Lee) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:22:54 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Stats In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910010944g120e37adxf3ff2315e1ed83bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910010536l694d33a4k45c0e9b3ce6a9b22@mail.gmail.com> <01c001ca429d$2ac7db40$805791c0$@net> <4eedb92a0910010944g120e37adxf3ff2315e1ed83bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01c901ca42cc$94ed6d30$bec84790$@net> > As for the raw logs, yes you would have to use an app to analyze them for > you. Nonsense. You can analyze log files other ways -- import them into a spreadsheet or database, or just do ad hoc slicing with shell utilities. -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan Good point, I should have worded that differently. I simply meant that the raw Apache logs would be less useful than the stats apps, unless you know what to look for. Rob From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 14:08:39 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:08:39 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <16f65d000910011144p7139074fv9a7789a56623cb6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <15DEECE0-A5A8-41A9-B57F-388D44B54117@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910011144p7139074fv9a7789a56623cb6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910011208p7b8ab7ffl2ae69d30c5f79364@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: >> Thanks. As I thought, woefully out of date (and horribly muddled). > Are you refering to Debian or yourself? ;) Debian. > Security updates come > automatically -- so if you are not paying attention to every bit of > self-compiled code's email list you are safer. ?I get security updates a few > times a week on my Ubuntu desktop. > Stability and security are where it's at. So you say, apparently still missing my point that Debian's Tomcat packaging (at least) is way out-of-date with regard to *security* fixes. So why would I trust it to be better with other bundled apps? -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From moseley at hank.org Thu Oct 1 18:25:19 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 16:25:19 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910011208p7b8ab7ffl2ae69d30c5f79364@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909291221v37d3d05ck87f46af43dbb9e51@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910011144p7139074fv9a7789a56623cb6c@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011208p7b8ab7ffl2ae69d30c5f79364@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16f65d000910011625k5d266db5ic3c26a1241fe0f8b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Hassan Schroeder < hassan.schroeder at gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Bill Moseley wrote: > > >> Thanks. As I thought, woefully out of date (and horribly muddled). > > > Are you refering to Debian or yourself? ;) > > Debian. > > > Security updates come > > automatically -- so if you are not paying attention to every bit of > > self-compiled code's email list you are safer. I get security updates a > few > > times a week on my Ubuntu desktop. > > > Stability and security are where it's at. > > So you say, apparently still missing my point that Debian's Tomcat > packaging (at least) is way out-of-date with regard to *security* fixes. > Sorry, I have no knowledge of the specifics of Debian's Tomcat package. You asked for about Debian security policy so I posted the link. If you know of specific security issues with the Debian package that you think the package maintainer is unaware of it would be probably be good to let them know. I'm pretty sure the maintainers are just humans that volunteer to manage the packages, so some are probably more on top of things than others. Just a quick search, but does this include the security issues you are concerned with? http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/tomcat5.5/5.5.26-5 I'm not sure if that's a list of patches applied or if there's a separate list of security patches. Maybe others can provide more details. Again, maintainers often will back patch so older versions have newer security updates. Just not newer features. So, the version number is not a good indication. > So why would I trust it to be better with other bundled apps? > I would not assume that newer packages are more secure. The old insecure versions were once new. There's no way I can audit all the source of code we use. So, for me it helps to track a package that are widely used by a distribution with the idea that a new bug will get noticed by the maintainer. Personally, I don't trust myself to notice that some bit of software has a security issue that requires a quick fix. I had a bind9 compromise once because I was managing my own version. I was even on the bind9 list. I just missed it. I would have been protected if I had used the packaged version as a security update that had been released months before. I don't see any reason for someone developing with Ubuntu to not use the packages -- less to worry about when first starting out. They can decided when to compile from source when there's a reason. That said, I don't see anything wrong with your approach as long as you are confident you can track updates and announcements. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 18:57:40 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 16:57:40 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <16f65d000910011625k5d266db5ic3c26a1241fe0f8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0909300758l26e0e2bdn462510bd9945ca3a@mail.gmail.com> <560C572F-E7B8-49B3-A1DF-B6601066254D@easyweb.co.uk> <4eedb92a0910010740v1559ba2ei9c4dd43a71228b38@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910010931we6f83f2x3ca629cde3873823@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011123u52452fa5rd393fcc4159f0c8b@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910011144p7139074fv9a7789a56623cb6c@mail.gmail.com> <4eedb92a0910011208p7b8ab7ffl2ae69d30c5f79364@mail.gmail.com> <16f65d000910011625k5d266db5ic3c26a1241fe0f8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910011657u535958egfea3c0050f952416@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Bill Moseley wrote: > Just a quick search, but does this include the security issues you are > concerned with? Sorry, I don't have time to go through the source code -- the security fix pages list some Tomcat updates, but definitely not all. I'll take that as definitive enough. > Again, maintainers often will back patch so older versions have newer > security updates. ?Just not newer features. ?So, the version number is not a > good indication. Yes, and that seems like a hideously bad idea to me. Obviously YMMV. > I would not assume that newer packages are more secure. I didn't say that. I said that there are known security vulnerabilities that are fixed in the standard Tomcat releases that are AFAICT *not* fixed in Debian's version. > Personally, I don't trust myself to notice that some bit of software has a > security issue that requires a quick fix. ?I had a bind9 compromise once > because I was managing my own version. ?I was even on the bind9 list. ?I > just missed it. ?I would have been protected if I had used the packaged > version as a security update that had been released months before. That might be true for bind9, but it's not true for Tomcat. If it's not true for one package I'm using, how do I have any confidence in the others? Use the package manager, fine, but don't believe you're getting some magical security insurance, because it provably ain't so. That's all I'm sayin' ... :-) -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From evolt_org at striderweb.com Sun Oct 4 10:52:58 2009 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:52:58 -0500 Subject: [thelist] CMS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <006801ca3aeb$684bbcc0$38e33640$@com> References: <02b001ca3ab7$167fa250$437ee6f0$@com> <177c0a10909210810g12c17b34sea0387b86c81fcae@mail.gmail.com> <2506fbd50909210911m3dd89622m72589f0e4b779d46@mail.gmail.com> <006801ca3aeb$684bbcc0$38e33640$@com> Message-ID: <405546F3-5540-4490-BC9A-119F88460B9A@striderweb.com> On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Todd Richards wrote: > There has been mention of using FTP for the file uploads. That is > certainly > a possibility, although I guess I was thinking of a way to have > everything > under one "admin" site to avoid multiple links/logins for them. I > actually > maintain a site for another venue, and use FTP to upload their pics > all at > once. I just assume it's too much of a hassle for someone else. But > looking back on it, that really shouldn?t be that big of an issue. My corporate site has a bit of functionality where a non-techie employee has to upload data to our site. I have an Excel script that turns a worksheet into a csv data file, and then they upload it via FTP. For FTP I simply installed FireFTP in the employee's copy of Firefox, and created an FTP account that points only to the one folder that the employee needs to upload to. As an added step my Excel script gives the csv file a custom file extension, and then on the server side the import script (which runs once an hour or manually) only looks for data with that extension. Which avoids problems when the employee inevitably uploads the Excel file instead of the csv. All of this is a long way of saying that having an employee use FTP is quite doable. Give them a handy bookmark in their browser. Click. Drag files from left side to right side. Done. -- Stephen Rider http://striderweb.com/ From evolt_org at striderweb.com Sun Oct 4 10:55:45 2009 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:55:45 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Website promotion In-Reply-To: <2506fbd50909250818w57ed189y1736af2943f6c36e@mail.gmail.com> References: <619d00930909231851j4726d308tcca677fb76a71703@mail.gmail.com> <2506fbd50909250818w57ed189y1736af2943f6c36e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9E247FFF-9C03-4B24-ABA0-CC651F43A746@striderweb.com> +1 on making it HTML, with a link on that page to "Download a PDF version". And yes, prettify it. Non techs need something to hold their attention. ;-) On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Will wrote: > It's a great write up. Why not make it HTML and put it on your site so > people 'have something to link to'? > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Joel Canfield > wrote: >>> >>> though I'd share it and see if anyone had any feedback (really - >>> any at >>> all, from grammar to composition to "you suck"). >>> >>> http://serf.co.nz/dev/generic/Website-Promotion-and-Marketing.pdf -- Stephen Rider http://striderweb.com/ From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Sun Oct 4 14:58:13 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:58:13 +1300 Subject: [thelist] Just moved from Vista to Ubuntu -Web Dev Help??? In-Reply-To: <6FC99405-3261-466B-A64D-E169E22D77E7@easyweb.co.uk> References: <61ed1fc20909282316o4d29a07chf54e83f536bfe037@mail.gmail.com> <6FC99405-3261-466B-A64D-E169E22D77E7@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: -1 I've had nothing but bad experiences with Eclipse (and have tried a few times). Try Komodo Edit - multi platform and great to use. http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/ :) Paul www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From cmason at managersforum.com Sun Oct 4 12:09:50 2009 From: cmason at managersforum.com (Christie Mason) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 12:09:50 -0500 Subject: [thelist] CMS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <405546F3-5540-4490-BC9A-119F88460B9A@striderweb.com> References: <02b001ca3ab7$167fa250$437ee6f0$@com> <177c0a10909210810g12c17b34sea0387b86c81fcae@mail.gmail.com> <2506fbd50909210911m3dd89622m72589f0e4b779d46@mail.gmail.com> <006801ca3aeb$684bbcc0$38e33640$@com> <405546F3-5540-4490-BC9A-119F88460B9A@striderweb.com> Message-ID: <046501ca4515$7ce0d6a0$76a283e0$@com> -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Rider My corporate site has a bit of functionality where a non-techie employee has to upload data to our site. I have an Excel script that turns a worksheet into a csv data file, and then they upload it via FTP... --CM Relies-- That's potentially a very, very dangerous approach. Anyone who knows about that uploaded file could view it at any time, ex-employees, current employees, search engines, and many others. It's a big security hole, especially if the folder's not password protected and the search engines are crawling it. If that's confidential data, then that's the type of exposure that leads to headlines and lawsuits. I don't know if you're using PHP, ASP, .NET, etc - or where it's being imported into (mySQL or MS SQL, etc) but there are better export/import solutions out there. Which corporate site is using this approach? No, don't answer that, especially in a public list. Christie Mason From joel at bizba6.com Sun Oct 4 18:22:26 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:22:26 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Amazon S3 secure video tutorial Message-ID: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> Now that I've conquered Amazon S3's Query String Auth and successfully securely streamed video from my S3 account, I wanted to see if I could spare someone else the juggling of flaming chainsaws I went through to get here. I wrote up a moderately annotated tutorial here: http://72.9.251.146/~bizbacom/code/secure_s3.php I'm interested in any feedback, whether it's my superficial understanding of PHP, my nearly nonexistent understanding of encryption, my writing style or just my twisted sense of humour, I'm interested in what works, what's broken, and what totally cheeses you off. What would really delight me would be if someone who's never done this (and, based on my unanswered queries to thelist, I'm guessing that's a large audience even here) would actually walk through the tutorial and see if they can reproduce the desired results. joel -- Joel at Bizba6.com http://BizBa6.com/ From jft at worrigee.net Sun Oct 4 19:20:19 2009 From: jft at worrigee.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?jft?=) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:20:19 +1000 Subject: [thelist] =?iso-8859-1?q?Amazon_S3_secure_video_tutorial?= Message-ID: <20091005002019.29105.qmail@s419.sureserver.com> Joel, Thanks very much for publishing such a carefully prepared & detailed set of instructions. They are eminently readable & clearly annotated - well done! I don't need it yet - but will definitely do so in the future. Your graciousness in making this available to us all is gratefully appreciated - and its a huge saving in time as well! Kind regards, John John Townsend : jft at worrigee.net > -------Original Message------- > From: Joel Canfield > Subject: [thelist] Amazon S3 secure video tutorial > Sent: 05 Oct '09 09:22 > Now that I've conquered Amazon S3's Query String Auth and successfully > securely streamed video from my S3 account, I wanted to see if I could spare > someone else the juggling of flaming chainsaws I went through to get here. > I wrote up a moderately annotated tutorial here: > http://72.9.251.146/~bizbacom/code/secure_s3.php > I'm interested in any > feedback, whether it's my superficial understanding of PHP, my > nearly nonexistent understanding of encryption, my writing style or just my > twisted sense of humour, I'm interested in what works, what's broken, and > what totally cheeses you off. > ... > joel > -- > Joel at Bizba6.com > http://BizBa6.com/ > -- From pturmel-webdev at turmel.org Sun Oct 4 19:43:23 2009 From: pturmel-webdev at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:43:23 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Amazon S3 secure video tutorial In-Reply-To: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> References: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC9412B.6080606@turmel.org> Joel Canfield wrote: > Now that I've conquered Amazon S3's Query String Auth and successfully > securely streamed video from my S3 account, I wanted to see if I could spare > someone else the juggling of flaming chainsaws I went through to get here. > I wrote up a moderately annotated tutorial here: > http://72.9.251.146/~bizbacom/code/secure_s3.php Hi Joel, Looks great. All I could find were a couple typos: 1st para: "(S2)" ==> "(S3)" PHP code description 24i: "bas64" ==> "base64" HTH, Phil From joel at bizba6.com Sun Oct 4 20:06:08 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 18:06:08 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Amazon S3 secure video tutorial In-Reply-To: <4AC9412B.6080606@turmel.org> References: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> <4AC9412B.6080606@turmel.org> Message-ID: <619d00930910041806s7a93e304u970d515b276b1c37@mail.gmail.com> > > > http://72.9.251.146/~bizbacom/code/secure_s3.php > > Hi Joel, > > Looks great. > > Thank you. > All I could find were a couple typos: > > awwww > 1st para: "(S2)" ==> "(S3)" > > PHP code description 24i: "bas64" ==> "base64" > > HTH, > > does indeed; thanks, Phil. all fixed now. joel From david at chelseacreekstudio.com Sun Oct 4 20:23:08 2009 From: david at chelseacreekstudio.com (David Laakso) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:23:08 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Amazon S3 secure video tutorial In-Reply-To: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> References: <619d00930910041622u1764697dy307a166d71272f73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC94A7C.9020703@chelseacreekstudio.com> Joel Canfield wrote: > I wrote up a moderately annotated tutorial here: > > > > > joel > > Nice job! #content { margin:1em auto auto 128px;;<--------- :: Hmm, I don't think so... :: margin: 25px auto; <---------------------- :: Don't bang the rail :: line-height:1.25; <-------------------------- :: A little lead may make it easier to read :: } PS Needs proofreading.