From harvester at lists.evolt.org Mon Oct 12 00:00:11 2009 From: harvester at lists.evolt.org (harvester at lists.evolt.org) Date: 12 Oct 2009 00:00:11 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Oct 05, 2009 Message-ID: <20091012050011.32473.qmail@tempest.evolt.org> The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Oct 05, 2009 has been added to the lists.evolt.org site. Get it at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/show.cgi?w=20091005 Week at a glance listing at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/week.cgi?w=20091005 Harvest Summary --------------- Number of messages: 55 Number of tips : 1 Tip Authors ----------- aardvark (1) Tip Types --------- Unclassified (1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What: Tips are how a list subscriber "pays" for making an off-topic post to the list (see List Info for more information). Of course, this does not make off-topic posts acceptable. :) How : You include a tip in your posting by using the [tip]...[/tip] tag (replace the square brackets with angle brackets). The tip tag takes the optional attributes of 'type' and 'author'. From eccentric.one at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 11:06:56 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:06:56 -0500 Subject: [thelist] adjusting for timezones in Oracle Message-ID: I've been building some reports that query an Oracle db. Today I learned that the labor entries are stored in GMT so I need to modify some of my reports to adjust the time to the appropriate time zone. So far, all I've found is TO_CHAR(NEW_TIME( table.column ,'GMT','CST'), 'MM-DD-YY HH24:MI:SS') which appears to work. But I'm concerned that with this method, the reports will have to be edited twice a year to account for daylight savings time (CST to CDT and back). Anyone know of a way to have the query just pull in timezone of the server? Or is there some other obvious method that I'm missing? thanks, -jeremy From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 12:10:47 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:10:47 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email Message-ID: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not spam, because he will only send it once. But there's around a thousand or two for each domain, so if we just send them all at once (via a simple custom PHP script) perhaps the recipient server will take offense and stop them. So we thought to send 20 every hour from 9 am to 6 pm via cron. Then they will not look suspicious. Sounds reasonable? Even though this whole idea sounds like spam, I personally am willing to do this job because I don't think it really will be considered spam--the addresses are somewhat targeted and the letter is very friendly, basically offering his services if they're interested, and if not, they can ignore it. Thanks. From anthony at baratta.com Tue Oct 13 12:15:15 2009 From: anthony at baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:15:15 -0700 Subject: [thelist] adjusting for timezones in Oracle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD4B5A3.6080608@baratta.com> How about: SELECT SESSIONTIMEZONE FROM DUAL; Then use that info to munge your date info? Jeremy Weiss wrote: > I've been building some reports that query an Oracle db. Today I > learned that the labor entries are stored in GMT so I need to modify > some of my reports to adjust the time to the appropriate time zone. So > far, all I've found is > > TO_CHAR(NEW_TIME( table.column ,'GMT','CST'), 'MM-DD-YY HH24:MI:SS') > > which appears to work. But I'm concerned that with this method, the > reports will have to be edited twice a year to account for daylight > savings time (CST to CDT and back). > > Anyone know of a way to have the query just pull in timezone of the > server? Or is there some other obvious method that I'm missing? > > thanks, > -jeremy From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Oct 13 12:32:54 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:32:54 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD4B9C6.7070503@dottedi.biz> Fred Jones wrote: > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. > > But there's around a thousand or two for each domain, so if we just > send them all at once (via a simple custom PHP script) perhaps the > recipient server will take offense and stop them. > > So we thought to send 20 every hour from 9 am to 6 pm via cron. Then > they will not look suspicious. > > Sounds reasonable? > > Even though this whole idea sounds like spam, I personally am willing > to do this job because I don't think it really will be considered > spam--the addresses are somewhat targeted and the letter is very > friendly, basically offering his services if they're interested, and > if not, they can ignore it. > > Thanks. > This brings up a question - regardless of whether or not it is done repetitively, does sending out bulk messages like this, even a one-time invitation/offer, constitute spam? Why would the recipient server(s) interpret the messages as spam? Is there something in the contents that make it walk/talk/taste the life? Unless perhaps 500 of these are going to the same business/domain and this raises an alert - I don't know. With the SPAM filtering service I use there are default configs, then custom configs for allow/deny, content filtering, etc. It seems to me how it gets interpreted will depend on the email service/configuration/tolerances. I don't get much spam because I have added "%" and "OFF" as content to be rejected if it comes in the subject line. 20/hr - Common hosting providers will allow 200-500 for sending. Here you check with the particular provider and set up throttling to remain under the limit. One of the savvier network folks can better answer the question. -Bob From rjmolesa at consoltec.net Tue Oct 13 12:31:23 2009 From: rjmolesa at consoltec.net (Jon Molesa) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:31:23 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091013173123.GF8650@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> *On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 07:10:47PM +0200 Fred Jones wrote: > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:10:47 +0200 > From: Fred Jones > Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. Presumably he aquired the list with each recipient's permission. In which case it's not considered spam, IMHO. > > But there's around a thousand or two for each domain, so if we just > send them all at once (via a simple custom PHP script) perhaps the > recipient server will take offense and stop them. Depending on how their server is configured, it very well may take offense. Aside from that, what type of connection are you planning to send this from? I would recommend against a home dsl/cable connection. Sending that many email, even staggered, from a residential connection will certainly result in many rejects and possibly a blacklisting in one of the DBL services. It doesn't look good when the sending domain is example.com and the sending server's actual host name is customer-12-5q-hm.some-known-location.otherexample.com. Unless, you have spf records at the DNS level. But there is still no garuntee that the destination server will accept your mail. If you control the dns, mailserver, and ip address you'll be sending from and there is usually high volumes of email exiting you're host, then go for it. Otherwise look into a service such as constant contact, or mailchimp. They are whitelisted with the ISP's. That'll give you a higher degree of certainty that the mail made it to it's destination. > > So we thought to send 20 every hour from 9 am to 6 pm via cron. Then > they will not look suspicious. That is polite and thoughtful. > > Sounds reasonable? > > Even though this whole idea sounds like spam, I personally am willing > to do this job because I don't think it really will be considered > spam--the addresses are somewhat targeted and the letter is very > friendly, basically offering his services if they're interested, and > if not, they can ignore it. > > Thanks. > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Jon Molesa rjmolesa at consoltec.net if you're bored or curious http://rjmolesa.com From joel at bizba6.com Tue Oct 13 12:52:19 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:52:19 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <20091013173123.GF8650@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <20091013173123.GF8650@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <619d00930910131052x4b1bae9t591e2e0b2659dd24@mail.gmail.com> > > Presumably he aquired the list with each recipient's permission. In > which case it's not considered spam, IMHO. > > technical issues aside, in the US at least there are some pretty strict guidelines, in addition to the fact that it doesn't matter what *we* think is spam, it matters what the recipients think. legally, though, if you've done business with someone or have given explicit permission, they can email you and it's not spam, just as you say. but as far as your recipients are concerned, if it's not personal, anticipated, and relevant, what makes it *not* spam? to some degree, p, a & r are relative, but *not* covered by the concept that "if they're not interested they can just delete it." joel From mwarden at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 13:09:32 2009 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:09:32 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Fred Jones wrote: > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. > > But there's around a thousand or two for each domain, so if we just > send them all at once (via a simple custom PHP script) perhaps the > recipient server will take offense and stop them. > > So we thought to send 20 every hour from 9 am to 6 pm via cron. Then > they will not look suspicious. > > Sounds reasonable? I'm guessing the 1-time set up of this will cost you more than $30 when including the cost of your time. Why build it when you you can pay $30 and use a service like Constant Contact or iContact to do it for you? Sign up, upload your contacts (up to 5000 for the $30 tier), send the email, then cancel the service (it is a subscription service, so you don't want to leave it going). There may even be a trial promotion offer. I've seen them before. (Don't work for either company, but my company does use CC.) -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From joel at bizba6.com Tue Oct 13 13:13:30 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:13:30 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <619d00930910131113s5e582ebvd2505ea35bd7f08e@mail.gmail.com> > > Why build it when you you can pay $30 and use a service like Constant > Contact or iContact to do it for you? Sign up, upload your contacts > (up to 5000 for the $30 tier), send the email, then cancel the service > (it is a subscription service, so you don't want to leave it going). > There may even be a trial promotion offer. I've seen them before. > > (Don't work for either company, but my company does use CC.) > > there's also Feedblitz, which is even less expensive and looks good (used by Seth, and by CopyBlogger) and Campaign Monitor (pure HTML email design, $5 plus one penny per recipient for each email.) Plus, all these tools manage your CAN/SPAM compliance and they all take bulk uploads. joel From jason.handby at corestar.co.uk Tue Oct 13 13:13:51 2009 From: jason.handby at corestar.co.uk (Jason Handby) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:13:51 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. > Even though this whole idea sounds like spam, I personally am willing > to do this job because I don't think it really will be considered > spam--the addresses are somewhat targeted and the letter is very > friendly, basically offering his services if they're interested, and > if not, they can ignore it. The fact that he's sending one email rather than a series of them is irrelevant. The fact that the recipients "can ignore it" is irrelevant. Every spammer could use that as a justification if they chose to. It's a commercial mailing, and he's planning to send it to thousands of addresses of people who have not chosen to receive it. Unless those people have *specifically* indicated somehow that they expect to receive mailings like this from him or his associates (e.g. by signing up for them, or ticking a confirmation box on a registration form) then it's spam, and likely to be against your local spam / data protection laws. If you are happy with how he obtained those email addresses, and also that those people gave their consent to receive mailings like this, then fine. If not then I suggest you earn your client dollars by advising him that he's making a mistake! It will make him look bad. It will make you look bad. It may get your server blacklisted. Not a good idea. Jason From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Oct 13 13:18:54 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:18:54 -0600 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources Message-ID: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> This might seem like a silly question, but ... I have a script that I will need to run against 30,000 lines or so in a text file (.csv). It will need to do some pattern matching, then if it matches insert an entry into a database field. I can do this using either a PHP or shell script. What is a smart way of running it so that it doesn't toast the CPU and draw the gods upon me? Can you interject a "sleep 1" or something else into the script or does that even help? door #2 says that I set up PHP/MySQL locally, run the app, and upload the database file rather than runnning the program on the webhost server. From anthony at baratta.com Tue Oct 13 13:42:16 2009 From: anthony at baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:42:16 -0700 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4AD4CA08.7030408@baratta.com> UNIX? If so consider using Perl. 30K lines would be processed very quickly and fast. If not, you can still use Perl locally via Active State Perl for Windows and if your remote server allows remote DB connections just feed the results into the DB directly. Or if your server has something like phpMyAdmin you can use your script to create a bulk insert file and load the data via the web interface in installments. -- Anthony Baratta "It takes a village to raid another village." From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 13:46:19 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:46:19 -0700 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Bob Meetin wrote: > This might seem like a silly question, but ... ? I have a script that I > will need to run against 30,000 lines or so in a text file (.csv). ?It > will need to do some pattern matching, then if it matches insert an > entry into a database field. > > I can do this using either ?a PHP or shell script. ?What is a smart way > of running it so that it doesn't toast the CPU and draw the gods upon > me? Can you interject a "sleep 1" or something else into the script or > does that even help? I wouldn't think running such a script would last long enough to bother anyone, frankly. 30k lines is pretty trivial. > door #2 says that I set up PHP/MySQL locally, run the app, and upload > the database file rather than runnning the program on the webhost server. door #3: Since the regular expression comparison is by far the most computationally intensive part of this, parse the CSV file locally and generate a script of insert statements; upload that, run on DB server. In a loop with sleep()s included, if it makes you feel better. :-) FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From bobm at dottedi.biz Tue Oct 13 14:21:34 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:21:34 -0600 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD4D33E.9050103@dottedi.biz> Hassan Schroeder wrote: > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Bob Meetin wrote: > >> This might seem like a silly question, but ... I have a script that I >> will need to run against 30,000 lines or so in a text file (.csv). It >> will need to do some pattern matching, then if it matches insert an >> entry into a database field. >> >> I can do this using either a PHP or shell script. What is a smart way >> of running it so that it doesn't toast the CPU and draw the gods upon >> me? Can you interject a "sleep 1" or something else into the script or >> does that even help? >> > > I wouldn't think running such a script would last long enough to > bother anyone, frankly. 30k lines is pretty trivial. > > >> door #2 says that I set up PHP/MySQL locally, run the app, and upload >> the database file rather than runnning the program on the webhost server. >> > > door #3: Since the regular expression comparison is by far the most > computationally intensive part of this, parse the CSV file locally and > generate a script of insert statements; upload that, run on DB server. > > In a loop with sleep()s included, if it makes you feel better. :-) > > FWIW, > my scripting skills are limited to PHP and shell scripts (mostly #!/bin/sh); learning perl just isn't going to happen (thx Anthony) any time soon. maybe it is trivial but this server is already stressed for whatever reasons; as I have been regularly submitting complaints using their ticket system I need to make sure that no eventful roads lead back to me. a couple times they have replied to my requests that they found some account doing some god-awful thing and suspended it. if you live in a glass house, well you get the picture. will inserting a sleep in the script actually do anything? or if they are investigating problems will the sleep which would extend the running time simply appear to them as an unknown and bring em on? if it runs and completes in 10 seconds it probably isn't worth bothering. door #3 - yes doable but I'd prefer to avoid local processing because that makes it slightly more complicated to automate this application which will likely require downloading a data file weekly. From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 14:52:51 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:52:51 -0700 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4AD4D33E.9050103@dottedi.biz> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> <4AD4D33E.9050103@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910131252s5ebf1f9fj898ff2e874568006@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > maybe it is trivial but this server is already stressed for whatever > reasons; ?as I have been regularly submitting complaints using their > ticket system I need to make sure that no eventful roads lead back to > me. Not to sidestep your original question, but why put up with this shit? I mean, if your hosting company isn't providing value, why continue to throw good money after bad? Sounds like a serious waste of your time dealing with this nonsense. Anyway... > will inserting a sleep in the script actually do anything? or if they > are investigating problems will the sleep which would extend the running > time simply appear to them as an unknown and bring em on? ?if it runs > and completes in 10 seconds it probably isn't worth bothering. I can't imagine it taking longer than that, but try it out locally. Time it and watch the output of `top` with and without sleep()s; then do the same on the server. Compare and adjust as necessary. If it's going to be an ongoing activity, then it makes more sense to understand the impact (which I still think will be essentially invisible). FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 15:04:45 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:04:45 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> Message-ID: <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> > If you are happy with how he obtained those email addresses, and also > that those people gave their consent to receive mailings like this, then > fine. If not then I suggest you earn your client dollars by advising him > that he's making a mistake! It will make him look bad. It will make you > look bad. It may get your server blacklisted. Not a good idea. OK, this makes sense. No, they didn't give consent. He just paid some guy in India $10 to scrape them by hand. But if I use a service like Constant Contact, they also don't allow this type of spam I think. I recall hearing once that if CC gets a spam report on an email you send, they fine you $50. But perhaps if there's an unsubscribe link then it's not spam? I am now learning more about spam. :) I think the recipients are probably a friendly type of crowd, but one never knows--some might well smell that it's spam, especially if they're an IT person in the company. Thanks. From nan at nanharbison.com Tue Oct 13 13:41:03 2009 From: nan at nanharbison.com (Nan Harbison) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:41:03 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> Message-ID: I think legally when you send an email like this, whether or not it is considered spam, you are required to have an opt-out option in the email, most of the time it is at the very bottom of the email. So if you set it up, you have to include a link or something that allows people to opt out. That is one of the websites like Constant Contact does for you, besides being white listed by ISPs. If a large number of these thousands of emails go to one ISP, let's say AOL for example, and these recipients complain to AOL about your email, then AOL may shut your domain off from being able to send email to AOL customers. If you are on shared hosting, this also affects everyone else on the hosting, which isn't too cool. Just my 2 cents! Nan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. > Even though this whole idea sounds like spam, I personally am willing > to do this job because I don't think it really will be considered > spam--the addresses are somewhat targeted and the letter is very > friendly, basically offering his services if they're interested, and > if not, they can ignore it. From symeon at systasis.com Tue Oct 13 15:40:39 2009 From: symeon at systasis.com (Symeon Charalabides) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:40:39 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD4E5C7.9060105@systasis.com> Hi Fred, > But perhaps if there's an unsubscribe link then it's not spam? No. Spam is defined as "unsolicited bulk email": They didn't give express consent so it's unsolicited. You're not emailing each recipient separately so it's bulk. It's email, so it's email. Whether you send only 1 and whether there's an unsubscribe link are irrelevant factors on the issue. > I think the recipients are probably a friendly type of crowd, but one > never knows--some might well smell that it's spam, especially if > they're an IT person in the company. Don't risk it. Demographics will almost always betray you. I'm a friendly type of person too but get furious when I receive ill-advised spam such as this (that is, spam by a "we'll only do it once" campaign or by a "surely you must like our product" campaign). Your client and you will be doing yourselves more harm than good and you will be legally liable too. Don't do it. -- Symeon Charalabides (cosmopolite trainee) ----------------------------------------- http://www.systasis.com http://twitter.com/bluesymeon http://www.linkedin.com/in/symeon http://www.last.fm/user/bluesymeon From joel at bizba6.com Tue Oct 13 15:37:01 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:37:01 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <619d00930910131337s5922d5cmddc76bc7beb3c476@mail.gmail.com> > > OK, this makes sense. No, they didn't give consent. He just paid some > guy in India $10 to scrape them by hand. > > In the US, last I checked, sending email to a purchased list could net you up to $10,000 in fines. But if I use a service like Constant Contact, they also don't allow > this type of spam I think. I recall hearing once that if CC gets a > spam report on an email you send, they fine you $50. > > dunno about the fines, but they'll shut down the account, and whoever's name it's in will never get a CC account again. > But perhaps if there's an unsubscribe link then it's not spam? I am > now learning more about spam. :) > spam is really called *unsolicited* commercial email. 'unsolicited' means "we didn't ask to receive it." having my name on some list a guy scraped from who knows where is not permission to email me. unless these recipients asked, explicitly, or by already being a customer, for this email, IT IS SPAM and no amount of verbal gyrations will change that. > I think the recipients are probably a friendly type of crowd, but one > never knows--some might well smell that it's spam, especially if > they're an IT person in the company. > > I'm pretty friendly. Excessively so, in most cases. Spam me, and you're pretty much shut off permanently. I don't have a lot of time and if someone wastes it for their own selfish benefit, they're on my bad side, hard. Read Seth Godin's "Permission Marketing" or Joel D Canfield's [1] "The Commonsense Entrepreneur" and learn how this is fundamentally wrong marketing, buying a list and sending an email. Learn about growing lists organically, through relationship building, and you'll be able to advise your clients about such?and get paid to do so. joel [1] um, yeah, that's me. From jason.handby at corestar.co.uk Tue Oct 13 15:42:54 2009 From: jason.handby at corestar.co.uk (Jason Handby) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:42:54 +0100 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BC@exch-be12.exchange.local> > door #3: Since the regular expression comparison is by far the most > computationally intensive part of this, parse the CSV file locally and > generate a script of insert statements; upload that, run on DB server. > > In a loop with sleep()s included, if it makes you feel better. :-) Another option that just occurred to me: import your entire CSV file into a database table, then use the DB engine itself to do the pattern matching and inserting into your other table. MySQL supports regular expressions, for example: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/regexp.html If you can come up with the right database query, it'll probably be more efficient to do it that way than to script it yourself. Presumably something like INSERT INTO my_table SELECT f1, f2, f3, f_examineme FROM temp_table WHERE f_examineme REGEXP 'pattern' Jason From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 16:10:55 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:10:55 -0700 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BC@exch-be12.exchange.local> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BC@exch-be12.exchange.local> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910131410i47418b0bm4f27b0b09b8ad2c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Jason Handby wrote: > Another option that just occurred to me: import your entire CSV file > into a database table, then use the DB engine itself to do the pattern > matching and inserting into your other table. Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner :-) Best idea so far, I'd say. -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 16:18:51 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:18:51 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <4AD4E5C7.9060105@systasis.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> <4AD4E5C7.9060105@systasis.com> Message-ID: <177c0a10910131418t39a106fak49623f153307786c@mail.gmail.com> > No. Spam is defined as "unsolicited bulk email": > > They didn't give express consent so it's unsolicited. > You're not emailing each recipient separately so it's bulk. > It's email, so it's email. Hmmm, what if it was sent individually? I am hearing that this is clearly spam, but the client of course is still pushing to do it because HE thinks he will get some responses. What if we paid the Indian guy another $10 to send the emails manually? Perhaps that's a silly question I just asked. :) > Read Seth Godin's "Permission Marketing" or Joel D Canfield's [1] "The > Commonsense Entrepreneur" and learn how this is fundamentally wrong > marketing, buying a list and sending an email. Learn about growing lists > organically, through relationship building, and you'll be able to advise > your clients about such?and get paid to do so. Well this situation isn't about building a list. It's a one time thing, as in "John bought from me this great T-shirt and he suggested that I should email other employees of Acme, Inc and ask if perhaps you want to also buy a T-Shirt for the Winter 2009 company picnic?" Don't reply that we should make a list to then sell T-shirt's for the next picnic, because it's not T-shirts--it's really a one time thing. The list wasn't purchased, it was scraped from acme.com. Not that that makes any difference I suppose. Thanks for the feedback everyone, F From mwarden at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 16:57:56 2009 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:57:56 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <619d00930910131337s5922d5cmddc76bc7beb3c476@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> <619d00930910131337s5922d5cmddc76bc7beb3c476@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Joel Canfield wrote: > But if I use a service like Constant Contact, they also don't allow >> this type of spam I think. I recall hearing once that if CC gets a >> spam report on an email you send, they fine you $50. >> >> dunno about the fines, but they'll shut down the account, and whoever's > name it's in will never get a CC account again. No fines, and some spam reports are expected, even in fully opt-in email lists. Users forget that they opted-in or they don't realize you are the same people they opted into, etc. There are best practices to mitigate these errors, but anyone having any experience in software development knows that users will always find creative ways to do what you wish they wouldn't. More info: Spam Reports Aren't All Bad News http://www.constantcontact.com/learning-center/hints-tips/ht-2009-07b.jsp -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From joel at bizba6.com Tue Oct 13 17:07:18 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:07:18 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> <619d00930910131337s5922d5cmddc76bc7beb3c476@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <619d00930910131507sfc78561g8291036a262e7715@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Matt Warden wrote: > No fines, and some spam reports are expected, even in fully opt-in > email lists. Users forget that they opted-in or they don't realize you > are the same people they opted into, etc. There are best practices to > mitigate these errors, but anyone having any experience in software > development knows that users will always find creative ways to do what > you wish they wouldn't. More info: > > Spam Reports Aren't All Bad News > http://www.constantcontact.com/learning-center/hints-tips/ht-2009-07b.jsp indeed; all these vendors assume a certain percentage of spam reports; they certainly won't take action for a single report or small percentages. good subject line and copy really helps remind folks who you are and why you're sending them email. joel From info at designbychen.com Tue Oct 13 17:08:01 2009 From: info at designbychen.com (P Chen) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:08:01 -0700 Subject: [thelist] knowledge of dealing with design work for customers In-Reply-To: <20090910102436.26075nwk6cd9fius@www.vfemail.net> References: <20090910102436.26075nwk6cd9fius@www.vfemail.net> Message-ID: <002701ca4c51$a1883280$e4989780$@com> This book is helpful in offering advice on how to structure your contracts to avoid/prevent freelancer abuse by a client. There are several industries including web design work. http://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Artists-Guild-Handbook-Guidelines/dp/093210213 1/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255468556&sr=8-3 in addition, I've always found that if you present a single comp to a client, you'll get a lot of hemming/hawing and change requests. Providing, say, two different versions, is usually sufficient from which you can then have the client choose one direction. Then if you build in a maximum round of edits, say, 2 rounds of edits, once that number has been reached, you're free to charge additionally for all other edit requests. It's also important to define the scope to prevent scope creep which inevitably happens. Also, don't forget to submit an estimated timeline of each milestone (including each round of edits), and make sure they sign off on it. If you do this, it helps the client see the timeline and know where they are in the process and how much is left before the project concludes. I've found that this helps move most projects along smoothly and in a timely fashion. -Peter -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of gildororonar at mail-on.us Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:25 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] knowledge of dealing with design work for customers Hello. As someone who tries to take a design role I would like to ask for some insights on this very issue: All the design work can be very sensitive for customers, especially if their consider their sales, reputation or everything can be heavily influenced by the design, or they think they pay to look outstanding, which is more and more difficult nowadays. They are unsure of what they need, but they feel they must act on something to get the better, so it happens you get them a design draft, they have comment, you make a second one, they do it again, and it can go for long time. They make comments, suggest a move on the shape or line, want to try it brighter or lighter, compare to other people's work, and use the partial criteria learned from others or concluded by themselves to make the points. Since I have been in software development role and desktop IT support role for many years and directly communicate with users, I understand what I need to say in this case. I can reason my doing with a proper logic. If they consider change to a shape, or a small change from this to that, I either know how to do it easy and fast, or to reason why we keep it that way, and I am confident about what I say. However I know I spent many years to achieve that. To properly convince customer I need rich knowledge how other IT systems works for comparison 'cos my user would refer to other systems, I also need to know completely how current system works to be consistent about my saying, I also need good IT skill if user really wants it that way or I think it's reasonable that way, which is OT (of dealing customer relationship) but important anyway. A good sense of time estimation is also important. To add to the list, I have good knowledge of customer's business to prioritize requests correctly, even the potential ones so I can plan well. For the design things it become more difficult. Re-getting the knowledge takes years. So my question is: * is there an easy way to get it quicker, can it be listed as clear as I list the knowledge I needed on my IT support / development role so I get a "thread" to follow. * is there a shortcut to get knowledge of dealing with design customers. I know typical answer to all "shortcut" question is "work the hard way, if you are thinking of shortcut all the time you don't gain". Yes I /know/ that, as I went through these on my other job roles. But still, as a hardworking person I can tell something to another hardworking person some "short cut" on areas I am familiar with. The shortcuts ain't magical, and is not supposed to replace hardworking, but useful too. General ideas on improving design itself isn't my main question, because this is a FAQ, I know how to google, I also read many such article and is on the way of improving. I just ask the side I am blind at. Thanks in advance way of improving. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.89/2360 - Release Date: 09/10/09 11:29:00 From jason.handby at corestar.co.uk Tue Oct 13 17:19:56 2009 From: jason.handby at corestar.co.uk (Jason Handby) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:19:56 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131418t39a106fak49623f153307786c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com><9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local><177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com><4AD4E5C7.9060105@systasis.com> <177c0a10910131418t39a106fak49623f153307786c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BD@exch-be12.exchange.local> > > No. Spam is defined as "unsolicited bulk email": > > > > They didn't give express consent so it's unsolicited. > > You're not emailing each recipient separately so it's bulk. > > It's email, so it's email. > > Hmmm, what if it was sent individually? I am hearing that this is > clearly spam, but the client of course is still pushing to do it > because HE thinks he will get some responses. What if we paid the > Indian guy another $10 to send the emails manually? I think Symeon's choice of words created some unintended wriggle-room there. Your mailshot is still "bulk" even if the emails are individually sent; that's just a technical detail. I can send a paper mailout to 20,000 households, and the fact that I put each letter in a separate envelope and it is posted through a separate letterbox doesn't mean it isn't "bulk". > Well this situation isn't about building a list. It's a one time > thing, as in "John bought from me this great T-shirt and he suggested > that I should email other employees of Acme, Inc and ask if perhaps > you want to also buy a T-Shirt for the Winter 2009 company picnic?" > Don't reply that we should make a list to then sell T-shirt's for the > next picnic, because it's not T-shirts--it's really a one time thing. > > The list wasn't purchased, it was scraped from acme.com. Not that that > makes any difference I suppose. Not really. You still have a list of email addresses that you don't have permission to send commercial email to. I understand that the client is putting you under pressure to do this, and I do sympathise, but I don't think that any amount of semantic gyration is going to change the nature of what he's suggesting. Ultimately this is a question of ethics. From the technical point of view, if you want to do it then I'm sure there are ways. The question for you is, do you want to help your client do something that is unethical, probably illegal, could harm his reputation and might harm yours? There could be other ways for him to achieve what he wants. Using your analogy, perhaps he can work through Acme, Inc to have an ad for his T-shirts placed in their staff newsletter, or on a noticeboard in the staff break room. Or he could work with the picnic organizers and get the information out that way, e.g. on the booking form. Or, if he already has a satisfied customer (John) in Acme, why not give him some discount vouchers / a free T-shirt / some other incentive in exchange for referring some colleagues? If his business idea can only work if he spams people, by today's standards it's a bad business idea. Jason From fredthejonester at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 17:25:09 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:25:09 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BD@exch-be12.exchange.local> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> <4AD4E5C7.9060105@systasis.com> <177c0a10910131418t39a106fak49623f153307786c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1BD@exch-be12.exchange.local> Message-ID: <177c0a10910131525i665a5bcaodf0aca278658789f@mail.gmail.com> > There could be other ways for him to achieve what he wants. Using your > analogy, perhaps he can work through Acme, Inc to have an ad for his > T-shirts placed in their staff newsletter, or on a noticeboard in the > staff break room. Or he could work with the picnic organizers and get > the information out that way, e.g. on the booking form. Or, if he > already has a satisfied customer (John) in Acme, why not give him some > discount vouchers / a free T-shirt / some other incentive in exchange > for referring some colleagues? Excellent. I had thought vaguely about this, but your brainstorming put me in the right direction--what we must do is brainstorm more about advertising ideas like this and show the client that we can reach people in a totally acceptable way. This is a great approach I think. > If his business idea can only work if he spams people, by today's > standards it's a bad business idea. Well said. :) Thanks! PS: We are now offering a $2 discount off company T-shirts for everyone who refers someone to us. LOL. From roberto at asenseofdesign.com Tue Oct 13 14:13:25 2009 From: roberto at asenseofdesign.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Roberto_Gorj=E3o?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:13:25 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD4D155.5030908@asenseofdesign.com> If the owners of the emails on that list did not express their will to receive emails from your client and there's not a record of their IP at the moment they took that option to prove it, then it will be regarded by most recipients and respective servers as spam. Considering that there are near 25 million businesses in US alone, you can easily imagine what it would represent for our inboxes if each of them decided to do the same your client is trying to. Someone has calculated that worldwide at least 50 million new businesses are born every year, which means about 137.000 per day. Personally, I denounce as spam any email that I receive in the conditions you've described. As a business owner I respect others right of not receiving my publicity so I fully expect others to comply to the same principle. Roberto Fred Jones wrote: > I have a client who has a list of several thousand emails. He wants to > send them a one time email, offering his services. AFAIK it's not > spam, because he will only send it once. > > From moseley at hank.org Tue Oct 13 21:00:28 2009 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:00:28 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Formatting email messages Message-ID: <16f65d000910131900i7c0e3e43h3cedc4416e172720@mail.gmail.com> We have a form with a textarea that is used to add a message to an email that is sent by the application. The email is sent as a single part message with a text/plain content type. I'm wondering if or how I should format the text entered into the text area when creating the email message. We are somewhat past the good old days of text email and where RFC2822 says lines "SHOULD be no more than 78 characters" and where mail clients all have the same width and font sizes. Should I still wrap long lines at 78 chars or leave the text as was entered directly in the text area? Or should I create a multi-part email and wrap the text/plain part to 78 characters and add an text/html part for mail clients that want to wrap lines at width/fonts dictate? The textarea on the form is for text only -- so I would html-escape any text entered. It may not be uncommon to add long URLs in the text message, so it would be mildly annoying to have those split up by the wrapping code. What do you do? Gmail when in "Plain Text" mode wraps the text. When in "Rich Formatting" mode creates a text/plain and text/html part. Here's an example from Gmail (with some utf-8 example characters). Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd290ceaa4dc70475daf6de --000e0cd290ceaa4dc70475daf6de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are somewhat past the good old days of text email and where RFC2822 says lines "SHOULD be no more than 78 characters" and where mail clients all hav= e the same width and font sizes. =CF=84=CE=BF=E1=BF=A6 =E1=BD=88=CE=B4=CF=85= =CF=83=CF=83=CE=AD=CE=B1 =E1=BC=98=CE=BB=CF=8D=CF=84=CE=B7. --=20 Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org --000e0cd290ceaa4dc70475daf6de Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are somewhat past the good old days of text email and where RFC2822 says lines "SHOULD be no more than 78 characters" and where mail clients all have the same width and font sizes. =CF=84=CE=BF=E1=BF=A6 =E1= =BD=88=CE=B4=CF=85=CF=83=CF=83=CE=AD=CE=B1 =E1=BC=98=CE=BB=CF=8D=CF=84=CE= =B7.




--
Bill Moseley
moseley@= hank.org

--000e0cd290ceaa4dc70475daf6de-- -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Oct 14 01:23:46 2009 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:23:46 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <9A50776858A21848A96469CDFCBCDEFF027CD1B0@exch-be12.exchange.local> <177c0a10910131304k6c6e791fm9fdba3aaa1490027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <664489C2-B663-413F-906E-05520BF4A115@easyweb.co.uk> On 13 Oct 2009, at 21:04, Fred Jones wrote: > But perhaps if there's an unsubscribe link then it's not spam? I am > now learning more about spam. :) Nope - if your definition of spam varies much from Unsolicited Commercial Email then you need to change your definition. And go read Seth Godin's Permission Marketing. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/ From english_offline at yahoo.com Wed Oct 14 06:30:58 2009 From: english_offline at yahoo.com (Administrative HQ) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] Hosting Recommendations - Any Experience With These? In-Reply-To: <005101ca4660$e75d5a20$b6180e60$@net> References: <005101ca4660$e75d5a20$b6180e60$@net> Message-ID: <470252.68582.qm@web38101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello. I've received recommendations for three hosting companies and would like any comments/reviews I can get. They are: http://www.webhost4life.com/ http://www.servage.net/? (someone told me sites hosted by this one are very slow) http://www.justhost.com/ Please, if anyone has experience with any of these - service/support, reliabilty (uptime), problems, I could use the advice. Thanks very much. David P.S. ?Of course, other recommendations would also be appreciated. D ? * * Please support the community that supports you.? * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evolt at weeb.biz Wed Oct 14 09:05:46 2009 From: evolt at weeb.biz (James Hardy) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:05:46 +0100 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/10/13 Hassan Schroeder : > > door #3: Since the regular expression comparison is by far the most > computationally intensive part of this, parse the CSV file locally and > generate a script of insert statements; upload that, run on DB server. > > In a loop with sleep()s included, if it makes you feel better. :-) > In my experience of MySQL, using a LOAD DATA IN FILE statement[1] to insert structured (eg CSV) data uses almost no resources and takes very little time compared with generated MySQL scripts with thousands of insert statements, which tend to eat up resources and take an age. In this case, I would use a simple grep (or awk if more manipulation is required) command to generate a CSV with only the matching lines locally and then simply import this data. [1] http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/load-data.html -- James Hardy From bobm at dottedi.biz Wed Oct 14 10:41:23 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:41:23 -0600 Subject: [thelist] sleep, etc to make a script not take resources In-Reply-To: References: <4AD4C48E.9000905@dottedi.biz> <4eedb92a0910131146h7813e60pcb46c2fa1a186982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD5F123.3090502@dottedi.biz> James Hardy wrote: > 2009/10/13 Hassan Schroeder : > >> door #3: Since the regular expression comparison is by far the most >> computationally intensive part of this, parse the CSV file locally and >> generate a script of insert statements; upload that, run on DB server. >> >> In a loop with sleep()s included, if it makes you feel better. :-) >> >> > > In my experience of MySQL, using a LOAD DATA IN FILE statement[1] to > insert structured (eg CSV) data uses almost no resources and takes > very little time compared with generated MySQL scripts with thousands > of insert statements, which tend to eat up resources and take an age. > > In this case, I would use a simple grep (or awk if more manipulation > is required) command to generate a CSV with only the matching lines > locally and then simply import this data. > > [1] http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/load-data.htm On the one side I have a living database and on the other side I expect to see numerous inconsistently formatted data files (the 30,000 line .csv file) being an example which will need to be compared for matching lines using a variety of pattern-matching techniques. Whether done in MySQL or via scripting (#!/bin/sh, PHP, awk, grep, sed, etc) it's going to take a lot of manipulation to get to perhaps 95% accuracy. To get much beyond that would likely take hiring a data entry clerk to go through the text files and clean up rubble. I haven't use load often but I'm pretty familiar with mysqldump (mysql to restore) data as well. They really do take minimal resources. Last night I got my home office linux pc set up with mysql and set up the db locally so that I can experiment without big brother looking over my shoulder. Thanks for all the tips thus far. -Bob From fredthejonester at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 13:25:31 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:25:31 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Sending Bulk Email In-Reply-To: <4AD4D155.5030908@asenseofdesign.com> References: <177c0a10910131010u375fbc9fna301b95ce35a990c@mail.gmail.com> <4AD4D155.5030908@asenseofdesign.com> Message-ID: <177c0a10910141125q66d3a290k12df436d4a9f564e@mail.gmail.com> > Personally, I denounce as spam any email that I receive in the > conditions you've described. As a business owner I respect others right > of not receiving my publicity so I fully expect others to comply to the > same principle. Well said. Thanks. From Ron.Luther at hp.com Thu Oct 15 08:00:24 2009 From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:00:24 +0000 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> Message-ID: <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> Rudy noted: >>sorry stephen, it's not good news >>SELECT * FROM table1 >>WHERE column1 LIKE '%foo%' >> OR column2 LIKE '%foo% >> >>SELECT * FROM table2 >>WHERE column6 LIKE '%foo%' >> OR column7 LIKE '%foo% Hi Rudy || Stephen, Yes, but all is not quite that gloomy. The SQL is, as Rudy pointed out, long and tedious to write by hand. On the plus side, however, you can build all of that SQL pretty easily and quickly in a scripting language - so you don't have to type that all in by hand. If my memory isn't too terribly rusty, there are some 'admin' or 'meta' tables in an Oracle db (or any other kind) that you can query to get a list of all of the tables in the db. [ALL_TABLES? DBA_TABLES? USER_TABLES? Something like that I think.] There are also some data dictionary objects somewhere you can use to get a list of all of the fields in each individual table. (Again, pretty standard stuff in any db technology.) [I'm pretty sure this exact exercise (list all fields in all tables) is a pretty standard report in any db.] But duh, why rely on my rusty memory when I have google handy! ;-) Google says this should get you a list of tables in an Oracle db: select * from user_objects where object_type = 'TABLE'; Another quick google search says this should give you a list of the columns in a given Oracle table: SELECT column_name FROM user_tab_cols WHERE table_name=UPPER('YOUR_TABLE_NAME') String both of those items together in a loop or two within your favorite scripting language ... and viola ... you can autogenerate all the SQL Rudy outlined above. Run that and you should be golden. HTH, RonL. From rudy at r937.com Thu Oct 15 09:53:28 2009 From: rudy at r937.com (r937) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:53:28 -0400 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? Message-ID: > String both of those items together in a loop or two within your favorite > scripting language ... and viola ... you can autogenerate all the SQL Rudy > outlined above. Run that and you should be golden. except for the obvious fact that you should never generate a LIKE predicate for anything other than character columns as the saying goes, "the real WTF" is this whole idea of searching every column in every table ;o) From mwarden at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 10:30:34 2009 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:30:34 -0400 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM, r937 wrote: >> String both of those items together in a loop or two within your favorite >> scripting language ... and viola ... you can autogenerate all the SQL Rudy >> outlined above. ?Run that and you should be golden. > > except for the obvious fact that you should never generate a LIKE predicate > for anything other than character columns That can be easily filtered out using a join with USER_TAB_COLS http://ss64.com/orad/USER_TAB_COLS.html > as the saying goes, "the real WTF" is this whole idea of searching every > column in every table Agree. I'd be interested to see the table definition :) -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From JGERSTEN at lchb.com Thu Oct 15 10:37:57 2009 From: JGERSTEN at lchb.com (Gersten, John) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:37:57 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> Message-ID: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> We're beginning to produce video for the web, and are running into problems vis a vis file size. Long story short, the cameras we are using (mini DV and a flip cam that dumps into mp4 format) generate enormous source files -- one 2.5 minute video resulted in a 3 *gigabyte* .avi file once it had been titled and rendered. We have access to Adobe Premiere CS3 and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum. The latter is easier to use but provides very few ways (that I can find at least) to reduce file size. So right now we end up generating in Movie Studio and then doing a final render/shrink in Premiere. It's clunky and the videos look crappy, but even so, we can't seem to get the files below 60 Mb (which is still about 10x larger than we'd like). We are not wedded to .avi format, if that helps. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong (perhaps many things). If anyone could suggest alternative ways to arrive at smaller video sizes suitable for web viewing, that would be hugely helpful. And when I say "web viewing," I don't mean we want clips that look great and perfect at full-screen resolution; we just want easy little clips that default to, say, 320x480 or even smaller, so we can provide short snippets of advice in near-postage stamp size for visitors, a la web 1999 or thereabouts . As always, thanks in advance. John From eccentric.one at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 11:07:21 2009 From: eccentric.one at gmail.com (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:21 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Gersten, John wrote: > Obviously, I'm doing something wrong (perhaps many things). If anyone could suggest alternative ways to arrive at smaller video sizes suitable for web viewing, that would be hugely helpful. And when I say "web viewing," I don't mean we want clips that look great and perfect at full-screen resolution; we just want easy little clips that default to, say, 320x480 or even smaller, so we can provide short snippets of advice in near-postage stamp size for visitors, a la web 1999 or thereabouts . > I've always gotten good results using Super[1] to convert and shrink videos. And if you're going to post it online, I'd recommend going with flash rather than .avi. [1] http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html -jeremy From mrmazda at earthlink.net Thu Oct 15 11:39:33 2009 From: mrmazda at earthlink.net (Felix Miata) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:39:33 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: <4AD75045.1090001@earthlink.net> On 2009/10/15 08:37 (GMT-0700) Gersten, John composed: > we just want easy little clips that default to, say, 320x480 or even > smaller, so we can provide short snippets of advice in near-postage stamp > size for visitors A 480x320 image or video takes up a mere 6% of my 140 DPI screen. If other users of high resolution screens are anything like me, they find Youtube and other videos sized to 1/8 their screen size or less essentially worthless, same as for thumbnails 200px or less on a side. Basically I just don't bother with videos of any kind off the web. Either they're too small, or too low quality, or (usually) both. "Postage stamp" sized images amount to little more than clutter. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ From JGERSTEN at lchb.com Thu Oct 15 11:44:02 2009 From: JGERSTEN at lchb.com (Gersten, John) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:44:02 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD75045.1090001@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0A1@sfmail01.lchb.com> I appreciate your point of view. However, we have lots of visitors who view the site on handheld devices, others who are elderly with at-present very limited bandwidth on much older machines, all of whom seem to enjoy and benefit from our short, small-screen informational videos without complaint. In any case, I've crossed you off as a potential viewer, Felix . -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org on behalf of Felix Miata Sent: Thu 10/15/09 9:39 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? On 2009/10/15 08:37 (GMT-0700) Gersten, John composed: > we just want easy little clips that default to, say, 320x480 or even > smaller, so we can provide short snippets of advice in near-postage stamp > size for visitors A 480x320 image or video takes up a mere 6% of my 140 DPI screen. If other users of high resolution screens are anything like me, they find Youtube and other videos sized to 1/8 their screen size or less essentially worthless, same as for thumbnails 200px or less on a side. Basically I just don't bother with videos of any kind off the web. Either they're too small, or too low quality, or (usually) both. "Postage stamp" sized images amount to little more than clutter. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From joel at bizba6.com Thu Oct 15 12:19:41 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:19:41 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: <619d00930910151019x14503348ke2d994eca73ca139@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Jeremy Weiss wrote: > I've always gotten good results using Super[1] to convert and shrink > videos. And if you're going to post it online, I'd recommend going > with flash rather than .avi. > > [1] http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html +1 on SUPER and if you don't want to use YouTube for some reason, output FLV (FLash Video) files and stream them yourself with FlowPlayer. And if you don't want to use up your own hosting space, put them on Amazon's S3 and stream from there using FlowPlayer and Amazon's Querystring Auth. If you upload a good quality video and allow full screen, your users with a monitor can view it at whatever size is defined in your embed code, and your mobile users could choose 'full screen' and see it at the right size for their device, yes? Of course, if your target is the mobile user, focus there, but if you're simply seeking to make allowances for those folks and the large monitor sitting in my office users, try hard not to punish either of them by compromising. (Another term for 'compromise' is 'lose/lose' because, instead of everyone getting what they want, no one gets what they want.) joel From fredthejonester at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 11:05:15 2009 From: fredthejonester at gmail.com (Fred Jones) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:05:15 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: <177c0a10910150905q4d7472dua18ddaf6114fa325@mail.gmail.com> > We are not wedded to .avi format, if that helps. http://www.google.com/search?q=convert+to+flv+ffmpeg FLV is an option From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Thu Oct 15 14:24:40 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:24:40 +1300 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <177c0a10910150905q4d7472dua18ddaf6114fa325@mail.gmail.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly><6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net><3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <177c0a10910150905q4d7472dua18ddaf6114fa325@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Not sure if it helps your specific use, but these two articles really helped me: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/ Don't be fooled by the title - they are nuts & bolts 'how-to' articles. HTH, Paul -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Fred Jones Sent: Friday, 16 October 2009 5:05 a.m. To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? > We are not wedded to .avi format, if that helps. http://www.google.com/search?q=convert+to+flv+ffmpeg FLV is an option -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From JGERSTEN at lchb.com Thu Oct 15 14:22:39 2009 From: JGERSTEN at lchb.com (Gersten, John) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:22:39 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly><6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net><3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <619d00930910151019x14503348ke2d994eca73ca139@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0AA@sfmail01.lchb.com> This looks very promising! Thanks. Also looking into AVS Super (just bought the license, nice system). Very helpful, as always! -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org on behalf of Joel Canfield Sent: Thu 10/15/09 10:19 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Jeremy Weiss wrote: > I've always gotten good results using Super[1] to convert and shrink > videos. And if you're going to post it online, I'd recommend going > with flash rather than .avi. > > [1] http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html +1 on SUPER and if you don't want to use YouTube for some reason, output FLV (FLash Video) files and stream them yourself with FlowPlayer. And if you don't want to use up your own hosting space, put them on Amazon's S3 and stream from there using FlowPlayer and Amazon's Querystring Auth. If you upload a good quality video and allow full screen, your users with a monitor can view it at whatever size is defined in your embed code, and your mobile users could choose 'full screen' and see it at the right size for their device, yes? Of course, if your target is the mobile user, focus there, but if you're simply seeking to make allowances for those folks and the large monitor sitting in my office users, try hard not to punish either of them by compromising. (Another term for 'compromise' is 'lose/lose' because, instead of everyone getting what they want, no one gets what they want.) joel -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From bobm at dottedi.biz Thu Oct 15 15:39:09 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:39:09 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly><6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net><3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <177c0a10910150905q4d7472dua18ddaf6114fa325@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD7886D.3000708@dottedi.biz> -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Fred Jones > Sent: Friday, 16 October 2009 5:05 a.m. > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips > onshrinking/compressing video? > > >> We are not wedded to .avi format, if that helps. >> > > http://www.google.com/search?q=convert+to+flv+ffmpeg > > FLV is an ootion > SUPER is good; I also played with ffmpeg as well but didn't get around to writing up any shortcut procedures. This is a blog entry I wrote up 2-3 years ago about SUPER: http://dottedi.biz/index.php?option=com_wordpress&p=199 -- Bob Meetin www.dottedi.biz 303-926-0167 www.Twitter.com/bobmeetin Standards - you gotta love em with so many to choose from! Rocket Science - the Art of Managing Distractions From mrmazda at earthlink.net Thu Oct 15 15:53:03 2009 From: mrmazda at earthlink.net (Felix Miata) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:53:03 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0A1@sfmail01.lchb.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD75045.1090001@earthlink.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0A1@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: <4AD78BAF.2050406@earthlink.net> On 2009/10/15 09:44 (GMT-0700) Gersten, John composed: > we have lots of visitors ... who > are elderly with at-present very limited bandwidth on much older machines, > all of whom seem to enjoy and benefit from our short, small-screen > informational videos without complaint. Don't confuse "retired people" with the elderly. Not all elderly can afford to be retired. The ones who can actually afford retirement typically are using their ample enough resources to be using newer, aka higher resolution, computers, and broadband, while those who can't afford to be retired are using POTS and older computers, or no computers. Just because the retired can afford newer computers doesn't mean they can have the vision they had as teenagers, much less elderly who can't afford either. Many of those who don't complain don't because they left after finding inaccessible (tiny) content, and/or feel like to complain is futile. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ From Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz Thu Oct 15 16:28:23 2009 From: Paul.Bennett at mch.govt.nz (Paul Bennett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:28:23 +1300 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <4AD78BAF.2050406@earthlink.net> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD75045.1090001@earthlink.net><3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0A1@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD78BAF.2050406@earthlink.net> Message-ID: That being said, more and more browsers* are moving to full page zooming rather than text scaling, so things like text and video size will (over time) hopefully become less and less of an impediment (assuming users are able to set persistent zoom settings). :) Paul * Safari 3+, Firefox 3+, IE 7+, Opera 8+(?), -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Friday, 16 October 2009 9:53 a.m. To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? On 2009/10/15 09:44 (GMT-0700) Gersten, John composed: > we have lots of visitors ... who > are elderly with at-present very limited bandwidth on much older machines, > all of whom seem to enjoy and benefit from our short, small-screen > informational videos without complaint. Don't confuse "retired people" with the elderly. Not all elderly can afford to be retired. The ones who can actually afford retirement typically are using their ample enough resources to be using newer, aka higher resolution, computers, and broadband, while those who can't afford to be retired are using POTS and older computers, or no computers. Just because the retired can afford newer computers doesn't mean they can have the vision they had as teenagers, much less elderly who can't afford either. Many of those who don't complain don't because they left after finding inaccessible (tiny) content, and/or feel like to complain is futile. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! www.mch.govt.nz - www.teara.govt.nz - www.nzhistory.net.nz - www.nzlive.com The information contained in this email message does not necessarily reflect the views of the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and may contain information that is confidential or subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email in error: please notify the Ministry for Culture and Heritage by return email or telephone (64 4 499 4229) and delete this email; you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE YOU PRINT THIS EMAIL From Ron.Luther at hp.com Thu Oct 15 11:04:08 2009 From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:04:08 +0000 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7AB56@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> Rudy pointed out: >>except for the obvious fact that you should never generate a LIKE predicate >>for anything other than character columns Hi Rudy, Yeah, thought about that after I sent it. But as Matt already pointed out I'm pretty sure the Oracle system tables also give you column type as well as column name information ... which should make it pretty painless to avoid looking for 'foo' in a date field or Thursdays in an integer field or (gods help you) anything at all in a blob field! >>as the saying goes, "the real WTF" is this whole idea of searching every >>column in every table Agreed. I (dimly) recall possibly needing to do something similar once but I can't recall why. Cheers, RonL. From mrmazda at earthlink.net Thu Oct 15 17:44:13 2009 From: mrmazda at earthlink.net (Felix Miata) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:44:13 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips on shrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD75045.1090001@earthlink.net><3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0A1@sfmail01.lchb.com> <4AD78BAF.2050406@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4AD7A5BD.4000103@earthlink.net> On 2009/10/16 10:28 (GMT+1300) Paul Bennett composed: > That being said, more and more browsers* are moving to full page zooming > rather than text scaling, so things like text and video size will (over > time) hopefully become less and less of an impediment (assuming users > are able to set persistent zoom settings). > :) Zoom is a defense mechanism. If pages weren't offensive users wouldn't need to apply defenses to combat the offenses. ;-) Page zoom will not replace text zoom. Text zoom, besides being a defense, is also a shorthand, non-persistent form of increasing the default size. Web pages that don't embrace whatever the default happens to be are broken designs. There's no _good_ reason for most web pages not to embrace whatever defaults exist, and size accordingly. That means sizing everything based on em, not just text, at least until resolution independence built into operating systems becomes the norm instead of a pipe dream. -- " A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ From joel at bizba6.com Thu Oct 15 14:31:41 2009 From: joel at bizba6.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:31:41 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Video sizing - anyone have any tips onshrinking/compressing video? In-Reply-To: <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0AA@sfmail01.lchb.com> References: <7AA09FD244254FD5B3557A25DFA4AAF5@curly> <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB170BA7A900@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B09F@sfmail01.lchb.com> <619d00930910151019x14503348ke2d994eca73ca139@mail.gmail.com> <3CBA52B9335F054FB6D2E68618E018C60762B0AA@sfmail01.lchb.com> Message-ID: <619d00930910151231x47390a24n356e92f6c0be97c8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Gersten, John wrote: > AVS Super (just bought the license, nice system). What's AVS Super, and how is it different from the SUPER Simplified Universal Player Encoder & Renderer which is free? ( http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html) joel From evolt at roselli.org Wed Oct 14 15:48:12 2009 From: evolt at roselli.org (aardvark) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:48:12 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Formatting email messages In-Reply-To: <16f65d000910131900i7c0e3e43h3cedc4416e172720@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD600CC.24879.1BB3935@localhost> On 13 Oct 2009 at 19:00, Bill Moseley wrote: [...] > Should I still wrap long lines at 78 chars or leave the text as was entered > directly in the text area? > > Or should I create a multi-part email and wrap the text/plain part to 78 > characters and add an text/html part for mail clients that want to wrap > lines at width/fonts dictate? [...] > What do you do? [...] i send plaintext only messages, and don't force a wrap by inserting CRLFs (or CRs or LFs or TLAs)... in my experience, most mail clients will handle the wrap for the user and now you don't have to worry about long URLs... From simonmacdonald at uk2.net Sat Oct 17 08:48:57 2009 From: simonmacdonald at uk2.net (Simon MacDonald) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:48:57 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning Message-ID: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> A client wants me to set up a (UK based) online shop for him. His intention is to hold little or no product stock (these are items like baths and showers) but to get then delivered direct to the client from the supplier. I am sure I have seen some issues reading this form of online trading - I've tried google but can't come up with anything. Anyone got any advice regarding the legality/ethics of doing this? I may be wrong but something about this makes me twitchy! cheers Simon Simon MacDonald __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4517 (20091017) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From hassan.schroeder at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 12:45:03 2009 From: hassan.schroeder at gmail.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:45:03 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning In-Reply-To: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> References: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> Message-ID: <4eedb92a0910171045j5f92c44cr4ef2b90dc758a31e@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Simon MacDonald wrote: > A client wants me to set up a (UK based) online shop for him. His intention > is to hold little or no product stock (these are items like baths and > showers) but to get then delivered direct to the client from the supplier. > > I am sure I have seen some issues reading this form of online trading - I've > tried google but can't come up with anything. Anyone got any advice > regarding the legality/ethics of doing this? If you have questions about the legality, you should talk to a local attorney. Ethics-wise, does the supplier object? If not, what's the problem? Multi-tiered distribution is pretty standard. If I can get someone to pay me $60 for your $50 widget, cool. But then of course I have to be able to deliver -- see below: > I may be wrong but something about this makes me twitchy! Personally it seems like a business model that puts your client at the mercy of the supplier -- not being in control of the distribution part of the sale, depending on a third party to accept returns, etc. That would make *me* twitchy :-) FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder at gmail.com twitter: @hassan From lauri_lists at tharapita.com Sat Oct 17 11:45:54 2009 From: lauri_lists at tharapita.com (=?windows-1257?Q?Lauri_V=E4in?=) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:45:54 +0300 Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning In-Reply-To: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> References: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> Message-ID: Hi, Just in time production and delivery is what a significant part of the industry has been moving towards for some time. Charge only for goods delivered (there will be times when you can't - delay payment capture or refund when this becomes apparent) and project a reasonable estimate of how long it will take to deliver the goods. It's a relatively common model and there are a number of companies specializing in providing the eCommerce platforms, fulfillment, logistics and sometimes warehouses (Digital River comes to mind to name one of the biggest players). Cheers, Lauri V?in From dunkaz at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 15:35:27 2009 From: dunkaz at gmail.com (Duncan Hill) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:35:27 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning In-Reply-To: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> References: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:48:57 +0100, Simon MacDonald wrote: > A client wants me to set up a (UK based) online shop for him. His > intention > is to hold little or no product stock (these are items like baths and > showers) but to get then delivered direct to the client from the > supplier. > > I am sure I have seen some issues reading this form of online trading - > I've > tried google but can't come up with anything. Anyone got any advice > regarding the legality/ethics of doing this? > > I may be wrong but something about this makes me twitchy! > > cheers > > Simon > > Simon MacDonald > Simon, I've never used or implemented it anywhere, but try searching 'drop shipping' in Google. Pretty common in US I believe, not so sure about UK but I'm sure it is done and with the right supplier should be OK. Duncan From nadeem at multigraphics.biz Sat Oct 17 14:16:42 2009 From: nadeem at multigraphics.biz (Nadeem Hosenbokus) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:16:42 +0400 Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Simon, This kind of logistics is called 'drop shipping' and, as far as I know, is a legitimate solution for delivering products to a customer via online shopping. I believe that Sears in America use this for their online store. There have been a few scams based on this kind of setup in the past though. The scam generally involves setting up a site that offers products and then allowing people to sign-up as resellers. They are told that they have to pay a recurrent fee to be registered to sell the products but then either the products are not delivered or the reseller is given only a tiny part of the profit. The latter sounds more unfair than illegal but if the reseller is told that they'll get 10% but all the prices are hidden from them then it's a different issue. If you're building/implementing the site then you should have full access to the user-flow and contents which means that you can check the terms and conditions and whatever 'contract' may be in place for the end-user. Look for things that describe payment based on delivery date. If you see things on the site that indicate that people should sign-up to 'work from home' for a 'small fee' that they will quickly recover via their own sales then you should seriously consider backing away. You should also be able to check the transparency of the transactions to see if resellers are provided with an account of their sales and returns in real prices rather than percentages and that the product prices actually do match the real prices. It's also worth looking at the geographic scope of his operation. If he's using local wholesalers who say only deliver within the UK then how will the site handle overseas customers? Is the product delivered to him and then shipped off? Or is it likely that his wholesalers would deliver something like a bathtub to anywhere in the world? Check out his wholesalers too if you can get the information. Admittedly it's unlikely that he'll just give up that information: if he's legitimate then his business contacts and relations would be a business asset. You want to check their delivery conditions. My guess though is that if you're being hired to build or implement the site then it's probably legal and above board simply because it would probably involve your co-operation to build a scam site. Unless it's a new kind of drop shipping scam... Anyway, just my thoughts, I've never actually dealt with a drop shipping operation before. Nadeem Hosenbokus Exocet Studios - a brand of Multigraphics Ltd Office: (+230) 212 6390 / 208 6499 Mobile: (+230) 254 8221 Fax: (+230) 212 6789 24 St. Georges Street, Port Louis -----Original Message----- Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:48:57 +0100 From: "Simon MacDonald" Subject: [thelist] Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning To: Message-ID: <007f01ca4f30$92d4bb00$b87e3100$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A client wants me to set up a (UK based) online shop for him. His intention is to hold little or no product stock (these are items like baths and showers) but to get then delivered direct to the client from the supplier. I am sure I have seen some issues reading this form of online trading - I've tried google but can't come up with anything. Anyone got any advice regarding the legality/ethics of doing this? I may be wrong but something about this makes me twitchy! cheers Simon Simon MacDonald __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4517 (20091017) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From evolt_org at striderweb.com Sun Oct 18 11:21:09 2009 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:21:09 -0500 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2009, at 9:53 AM, r937 wrote: > "the real WTF" is this whole idea of searching every > column in every table Short version: Site built by another developer. I'm trying to get a handle on how he put it together by identifying where certain things are located in a database with *lots* of tables and lots of fields in each table. It appears his page templates are all in the database somewhere instead of being PHP files.... Thanks for the info. Stephen From bobm at dottedi.biz Sun Oct 18 16:57:57 2009 From: bobm at dottedi.biz (Bob Meetin) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:57:57 -0600 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADB8F65.1070004@dottedi.biz> Stephen, If this is MySQL then you should be able to dump the database, then, worse comes to worse, using your favorite editor such as 'vi', visually inspect it. As a shell script: ----------------------------------------------------- #!/bin/sh u="username" p="password" db="database" mysqldump -hlocalhost -u$u -p$p --all-databases > alldatabases.sql mysqldump -hlocalhost -u$u -p$p $db > database.sql ----------------------------------------------------- You could do something similar by making up a for loop of database tables that look promising. Will this help? -Bob Stephen Rider wrote: > On Oct 15, 2009, at 9:53 AM, r937 wrote: > > >> "the real WTF" is this whole idea of searching every >> column in every table >> > > Short version: Site built by another developer. I'm trying to get a > handle on how he put it together by identifying where certain things > are located in a database with *lots* of tables and lots of fields in > each table. It appears his page templates are all in the database > somewhere instead of being PHP files.... > > Thanks for the info. > > Stephen > From evolt_org at striderweb.com Sun Oct 18 23:08:47 2009 From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:08:47 -0500 Subject: [thelist] MySQL search everywhere? In-Reply-To: <4ADB8F65.1070004@dottedi.biz> References: <4ADB8F65.1070004@dottedi.biz> Message-ID: Actually, yes. Doing a dump and searching as text might be a very good approach. Thanks. Stephen On Oct 18, 2009, at 4:57 PM, Bob Meetin wrote: > If this is MySQL then you should be able to dump the database, then, > worse comes to worse, using your favorite editor such as 'vi', > visually > inspect it. From jenni at theweblotus.com Sat Oct 17 12:08:10 2009 From: jenni at theweblotus.com (Jenni Beard) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:08:10 -0400 Subject: [thelist] thelist Digest, Vol 80, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <075501ca4f4c$67d5bcd0$37813670$@com> Actually, at least here in the US, many of the privately owned plumbing supply houses (storefront) that sell those types of items only have the showroom items in stock, and then order from the manufacturer or wholesaler when a customer orders the item(s). This is standard procedure for many shops that carry bulkier items such as this. Personally, I would be surprised if someone were to try and carry quantities of stock on these types of items, and would expect the business to fail because of the high cost of purchasing and then warehousing the items. This is typically only done in larger companies, because the small business owner just can't afford to. I have personal knowledge of this particular industry because my father was a plumbing contractor ;). So, I would not expect an online store to handle these types of products any differently in that respect than the literal storefront businesses do. Best, Jenni ------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Topics: 1. Online Shop with 3rd party provisioning (Simon MacDonald) A client wants me to set up a (UK based) online shop for him. His intention is to hold little or no product stock (these are items like baths and showers) but to get then delivered direct to the client from the supplier. I am sure I have seen some issues reading this form of online trading - I've tried google but can't come up with anything. Anyone got any advice regarding the legality/ethics of doing this? I may be wrong but something about this makes me twitchy! cheers Simon Simon MacDonald