From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Jun 18 16:49:18 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:49:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: [DesDev] evolt.org giving wall Message-ID: Meant to mention this the other week, but forgot. I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall It's a proof of concept of the donation wall thingy, running on the eouk zope server. It already supports: 1) multi-currency donations 2) donations in kind 3) anonymous donors 4) donors with or without an existing weo account 5) batching (it's a soft limit, set to 2 atm) with orphan control 6) 1-off & regular donations 7) role-based security 8) Through the web management of donations What it doesn't do is: 1) Total donations 2) Calculate and a donations bar 3) auto-convert currencies 4) look pretty enough 5) enable searching for and direct URL viewing of any given donation (1) and (2) are fairly trivial when I get a moment (3) is a non-starter I think - it's doable but not particularly easily (5) searching is probably doable, but not without starting again. Direct URL viewing should be possible too. (4) is where I need help. For those interested, the presentation layer is a couple of simple Zope Page Templates, which should be manageable via WebDAV http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/current/ZPT.stx Cheers Martin -- "Names, once they are in common use, quickly become mere sounds, their etymology being buried, like so many of the earth's marvels, beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Jun 18 16:49:18 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:49:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: [DesDev] [Marketing] evolt.org giving wall Message-ID: Meant to mention this the other week, but forgot. I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall It's a proof of concept of the donation wall thingy, running on the eouk zope server. It already supports: 1) multi-currency donations 2) donations in kind 3) anonymous donors 4) donors with or without an existing weo account 5) batching (it's a soft limit, set to 2 atm) with orphan control 6) 1-off & regular donations 7) role-based security 8) Through the web management of donations What it doesn't do is: 1) Total donations 2) Calculate and a donations bar 3) auto-convert currencies 4) look pretty enough 5) enable searching for and direct URL viewing of any given donation (1) and (2) are fairly trivial when I get a moment (3) is a non-starter I think - it's doable but not particularly easily (5) searching is probably doable, but not without starting again. Direct URL viewing should be possible too. (4) is where I need help. For those interested, the presentation layer is a couple of simple Zope Page Templates, which should be manageable via WebDAV http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/current/ZPT.stx Cheers Martin -- "Names, once they are in common use, quickly become mere sounds, their etymology being buried, like so many of the earth's marvels, beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie --- evolt.org Marketing list marketing@lists.evolt.org Archive: http://lists.evolt.org/marketingarchive/ From neuro at well.com Wed Jun 18 18:21:22 2003 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:21:22 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] evolt.org giving wall References: Message-ID: <081301c335be$0aca6300$c902a8c0@local.zensoft.net> Martin wrote: > Meant to mention this the other week, but forgot. > > I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: > http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall s'broke -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Jun 24 18:48:11 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:48:11 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Marketing] evolt.org giving wall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0598ECA2-A66C-11D7-B8F5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 04:49 pm, Martin wrote: > I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: > http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall erm... anyone actually look at this? Cheers Martin From jeff at jeffhowden.com Tue Jun 24 20:10:07 2003 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:10:07 -0700 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Marketing] evolt.org giving wall In-Reply-To: <1056477682.25257@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <1056480949.1352@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> martin, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Martin Burns > > > I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: > > http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall > > erm... anyone actually look at this? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< yes. however, filled with garbage data and very little introduction, i have a difficult time assessing it. here's some things that'd be nice to know. what exactly is this for? - tracking donations? - accepting donations? - processing recurring donations? - internal use? - public use? where were you hoping to put this within the *.evolt.org realm? is this intended to just be a proof of concept? - if so, will you be available for consultation during the development - if not, how much more development before it's a finalized product? .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From david at gigawatt.com Thu Jun 26 15:48:31 2003 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:48:31 -0400 Subject: [DesDev] the future of evolt gear Message-ID: <002901c33bf2$03e57680$1c06040a@david> re: fund-raising, marketing and the "evolt gear store" that i setup on http://www.cafeshops.com/evoltgear according to CafePress, a commission check did go out to Evolt, attn: Marlene, to the Adelphi road address, for $62.63 on June 15th. Elfur or Marlene, can you confirm that it was received and cleared okay? Not that I don't trust Cafepress, of course. it's just that i don't trust Cafepress, of course :-) there's another $67.65 coming down the pipe, but unfortunately that's the total commissions for the two months, May and June, *after* the "initial launch" sales in April. so sales are down 50% :-( i know it's not a lot of *money* but it seems to me that the concept (members and well-wishers donating to an NPO by buying promotional goods) has the potential to result in a fairly steady *stream* of monthly income, if it were _sustainable_. so i'm interested in what you all think would make such a thing as this sustainable, from a marketing perspective. in other words: *besides* the technical issues, and business decisions we might make (that would be transparent to the members) what steps could we take customer-experience wise, to keep members (and theList subscribers, or other folks who just visit and are interested in the articles, browsers, etc on the website) interested and visiting the store and finding stuff they'd feel good about buying, and giving back to evolt? i'm thinking of the free CafePress store as merely a "proof of concept". it proved that on one particular week in April, one thread on the List can spawn enough interest and buzz to drive members to spend $267.97 on items fairly over-priced (but cool looking!) items... why? what is the value proposition? a cheap $5.00 T-Shirt, or a standard $3.00 coffee mug? do people not mind over-paying the other $15 bucks (or more -- they're already over-priced by Cafepress, plus our $5.01 commission) for just: a nifty, beautiful evolt.org logo (possibly with a side order of geek-wise humor) and the warm fuzzy feeling people get from donating to a good cause? i can't help but feel that if we could increase the selection *and* keep new products with new graphics (and new humor) coming frequently, that the "business issues" of replacing CafePress's "associate" or "reseller" model with our own modest amount of inventory and fulfillment, we could be taking home the lion's share of that $267 dollar per *week* peek potential. do you think that such a significant potential even exists? or that it was merely a one-time novelty thing that cannot be reproduced or sustained by any amount of product selection, pricing and promotion? what could we, can we or should we do next? some things i've been tossing around in the darkness of my head are: 1. scrap it... ? 2. add product, graphic and humor selection (the http://thinkgeek.com site, for instance, keeps me browsing for quite some time every time i go up there. i don't go there often, but i do visit repeatedly, say every other month, and have bought stuff on several (certainly not most) occasions. it seems to have the very same target market as we do, in short, the technically oriented and internet-savvy professional. i think ThinkGeek's wide selection of products, content (and wide selections of combinations thereof) is what inspires me as to what evolt.org could do. evolt also has the added "value" that proceeds go to an excellent not-for-profit cause, that the technically oriented and internet-savvy professional already benefits from! 3. create some sort of interactive community site (evolt members only?) that allows users to create and submit content, kinda like cafepress does (but better, of course :-)) to contribute their own graphic designs and/or humorous text ideas to whatever product(s) they want. these customized products could then be ordered immediately by them and other members, but would only be placed into the "public store" for purchase by anyone, after some type of approval process -- maybe administrator moderation or after receiving a number of "votes" of approval, from other members. as you may have guessed i don't want to scrap it :-) but at 50% decrease in sales per month, well, it wouldd just somewhat suck for it to effectively scrap itself. please don't hold back on any thoughts, ideas or perceptions you may have that that may be rumbling around in the darkness or your collective heads to suggest or point out that i can better guage my need for a reality check. am i wasting my time? PS: (to DesDev list) who can i possibly persuade to make a small update to the public "Help Support evolt.org" page: http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt ? just a mention of the "evolt gear store", and a link to http://www.cafeshops.com/evoltgear would be just great! thanks, -dave From r937 at interlog.com Fri Jun 27 02:10:44 2003 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:10:44 -0400 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Marketing] the future of evolt gear References: <002901c33bf2$03e57680$1c06040a@david> Message-ID: <00b801c33c48$f0bbd7a0$7f609c18@r9373j4yqbe8dy> > as you may have guessed i don't want to scrap it :-) david, the time and energy you put into this is appreciated > am i wasting my time? nope and thanks rudy From r937 at interlog.com Fri Jun 27 02:10:44 2003 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:10:44 -0400 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Marketing] the future of evolt gear References: <002901c33bf2$03e57680$1c06040a@david> Message-ID: <00b801c33c48$f0bbd7a0$7f609c18@r9373j4yqbe8dy> > as you may have guessed i don't want to scrap it :-) david, the time and energy you put into this is appreciated > am i wasting my time? nope and thanks rudy --- evolt.org Marketing list marketing@lists.evolt.org Archive: http://lists.evolt.org/marketingarchive/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri Jun 27 23:03:46 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:03:46 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056749355.3119@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <3946EC2A-A8EB-11D7-9013-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 10:43 pm, Jeff Howden wrote to content, in connection to a vaguely related subject: > my questions to you on desdev? They were: > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > From: Martin Burns > > > > > I spent a wee bit of time throwing together this: > > > http://www.acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall > > > > erm... anyone actually look at this? > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > yes. however, filled with garbage data and very little introduction, > i have > a difficult time assessing it. here's some things that'd be nice to > know. > > what exactly is this for? The donation wall that has been talked about for well over a year with nothing happening. > - tracking donations? Yes > - accepting donations? There's a paypal button so yes, but nothing heavier than that. > - processing recurring donations? What do you mean by 'processing'. > - internal use? > - public use? yes > where were you hoping to put this within the *.evolt.org realm? something like give.evolt.org - not on weo. > is this intended to just be a proof of concept? For now. Not much work required to turn it into something final, though. > - if so, will you be available for consultation during the development > - if not, how much more development before it's a finalized product? See my original note for the missing bits. Cheers Martin From jeff at jeffhowden.com Fri Jun 27 23:23:14 2003 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:23:14 -0700 Subject: [DesDev] RE: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056750573.29378@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <1056751733.11992@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> martin, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Martin Burns > > > what exactly is this for? > > The donation wall that has been talked about for well > over a year with nothing happening. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< nothing happened because no one would put together a formalized set of requirements and then achieved signoff on it. now you've effectively side-stepped those steps, the same sort of thing i've caught hell for in the past. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > - tracking donations? > > Yes ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< this can be easily done on weo where it can be tied into the user system. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > - processing recurring donations? > > What do you mean by 'processing'. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< letting a user setup recurring donations that are handled by paypal's recurring payments system. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > where were you hoping to put this within the > > *.evolt.org realm? > > something like give.evolt.org - not on weo. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< what about authentication? will the user need to setup *another* user account? why a separate domain for such a small application? is this trend of fragmenting our public-facing applications going to continue? you know that's a very bad idea, right? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > is this intended to just be a proof of concept? > > For now. Not much work required to turn it into > something final, though. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< then let's put it on weo where it belongs. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > See my original note for the missing bits. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< link? thanks, .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From r937 at interlog.com Fri Jun 27 23:40:25 2003 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:40:25 -0400 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall References: <9F7FA28C-A8EF-11D7-9013-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <00ef01c33cfd$27fe8550$7f609c18@r9373j4yqbe8dy> > "Click here" (pace Rudy) huh? (raises head out of punch bowl) From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri Jun 27 23:35:15 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:35:15 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056751733.11992@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <9F7FA28C-A8EF-11D7-9013-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 11:23 pm, Jeff Howden wrote: > > martin, > >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> From: Martin Burns >> >>> what exactly is this for? >> >> The donation wall that has been talked about for well >> over a year with nothing happening. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > nothing happened because no one would put together a formalized set of > requirements Requirements were *extremely* clear - list donations added by treasurer based on all submissions to give@evolt.org, cheques, donations in kind etc with an option for anonymous listing. I added a few 'nice to have' bits like batching. > and then achieved signoff on it. now you've effectively > side-stepped those steps, the same sort of thing i've caught hell for > in the > past. I think you'll find that I'm *doing* those steps. You'd rather we returned to the 'nothing happening' state? >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> - tracking donations? >> >> Yes >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > this can be easily done on weo where it can be tied into the user > system. Not really needed as only one role needed: treasurer, which we don't have currently. The donors will not be managing it. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> - processing recurring donations? >> >> What do you mean by 'processing'. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > letting a user setup recurring donations that are handled by paypal's > recurring payments system. "Click here" (pace Rudy) Done. Paypal does all that for us. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> where were you hoping to put this within the >>> *.evolt.org realm? >> >> something like give.evolt.org - not on weo. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > what about authentication? Done. > will the user need to setup *another* user account? Only the treasurer. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> is this intended to just be a proof of concept? >> >> For now. Not much work required to turn it into >> something final, though. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > then let's put it on weo where it belongs. That's one argument. The counter being that it's a totally different beast than weo was intended for. Just like deo is. Just like beo is. It's a separate app, not part of weo at all. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> See my original note for the missing bits. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > link? http://lists.evolt.org/desdevarchive/2003-June/000316.html Cheers Martin From jeff at jeffhowden.com Fri Jun 27 23:54:11 2003 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:54:11 -0700 Subject: [DesDev] RE: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056752470.10126@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <1056753590.23913@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> martin, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Martin Burns > > > nothing happened because no one would put together a > > formalized set of requirements > > Requirements were *extremely* clear - list donations > added by treasurer based on all submissions to > give@evolt.org, cheques, donations in kind etc with an > option for anonymous listing. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i don't ever recall hearing a request for anything resembling this description. does the feature set that's been built fit with what our treasurer-of-the-week needs it to do? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > and then achieved signoff on it. now you've > > effectively side-stepped those steps, the same sort > > of thing i've caught hell for in the past. > > I think you'll find that I'm *doing* those steps. You'd > rather we returned to the 'nothing happening' state? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ironic since that's my usual reply. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > this can be easily done on weo where it can be tied > > into the user system. > > Not really needed as only one role needed: treasurer, > which we don't have currently. The donors will not be > managing it. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ok, that takes the direction of this away from what it seemed to be at first. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > > For now. Not much work required to turn it into > > > something final, though. > > > > then let's put it on weo where it belongs. > > That's one argument. The counter being that it's a > totally different beast than weo was intended for. > Just like deo is. Just like beo is. > > It's a separate app, not part of weo at all. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< no, but the results, ie the donation wall and the donation bar *are* part of weo. if we're going to have an effective donation drive, these things *must* be in front of the user which means they *must* be on weo. there's just no way around that. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > link? > > http://lists.evolt.org/desdevarchive/2003-June/000316.html ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< thanks. how do you plan to solve the "things it doesn't do"? thanks, .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sat Jun 28 00:05:15 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:05:15 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056753590.23913@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 11:54 pm, Jeff Howden wrote: > does the feature set that's been built fit with what our > treasurer[snip] needs it to do? Yes as currently identified. As I've now said 3 times, this *is* the consultation step, not the signoff step. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> and then achieved signoff on it. now you've >>> effectively side-stepped those steps, the same sort >>> of thing i've caught hell for in the past. >> >> I think you'll find that I'm *doing* those steps. >> You'd >> rather we returned to the 'nothing happening' state? >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ironic since that's my usual reply. Restatement of context as you seem to have missed it: 'those steps' meaning 'steps of consultation, not of launching app to public' >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>>> For now. Not much work required to turn it into >>>> something final, though. >>> >>> then let's put it on weo where it belongs. >> >> That's one argument. The counter being that it's a >> totally different beast than weo was intended for. >> Just like deo is. Just like beo is. >> >> It's a separate app, not part of weo at all. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > if we're going to have an effective donation drive, these things > *must* be > in front of the user which means they *must* be on weo. there's just > no way > around that. Disagree unless you propose to have the donation wall on the front page of weo. We have this nice technology called a 'hyperlink' by which users can move from one page to another. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> link? >> >> http://lists.evolt.org/desdevarchive/2003-June/000316.html >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > thanks. > > how do you plan to solve the "things it doesn't do"? By putting it out for consultation. Which I've done. Would you like to take part instead of rubbishing it from the off? Cheers martin From jeff at jeffhowden.com Sat Jun 28 00:28:11 2003 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:28:11 -0700 Subject: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056754381.32653@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <1056755630.1744@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> martin, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Martin Burns > > > does the feature set that's been built fit with what > > our treasurer[snip] needs it to do? > > Yes as currently identified. As I've now said 3 times, > this *is* the consultation step, not the signoff step. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< the rub, for me, is that your post today came off as an "it's done, let's go live with it" sort of post. i'll quote the relevant part so you can see where i'm coming from. "Remind me what munging we have to do to update that page? We've got the monthly donation option ready to go..." ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ironic since that's my usual reply. > > Restatement of context as you seem to have missed it: > 'those steps' meaning 'steps of consultation, not of > launching app to public' ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< and from your initial message which spawned this exchange, it seemed you were at the launching app to public step and not the consultation steps. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > if we're going to have an effective donation drive, > > these things *must* be in front of the user which > > means they *must* be on weo. there's just no way > > around that. > > Disagree unless you propose to have the donation wall > on the front page of weo. We have this nice technology > called a 'hyperlink' by which users can move from one > page to another. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< first, don't talk down to me. i'm plenty aware of the technologies available. a hyperlink doesn't get the message out in front of every user. it only gets the information out to those we can persuade to click the link. at a bare minimum the donation bar should be out there in front of everyone, as it is now. (re)moving it will send the unintended message that we no longer need donations. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > how do you plan to solve the "things it doesn't do"? > > By putting it out for consultation. Which I've done. > Would you like to take part instead of rubbishing it > from the off? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i *am* taking part. i'm suggesting that there are plenty of good reasons to put it on weo. i'm willing to take the time to make that happen, with the added advantage that the donation bar will be updated in real-time to reflect our current donation level. it'll also be protected by existing authentication with a well-established user system. we can have added benefits like giving our members the choice to have donations listed in their user profile (or not). .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sat Jun 28 00:40:35 2003 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:40:35 +0100 Subject: [Finance] RE: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056755630.1744@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 12:28 am, Jeff Howden wrote: > > martin, > >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> From: Martin Burns >> >>> does the feature set that's been built fit with what >>> our treasurer[snip] needs it to do? >> >> Yes as currently identified. As I've now said 3 times, >> this *is* the consultation step, not the signoff step. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > the rub, for me, is that your post today came off as an "it's done, > let's go > live with it" sort of post. i'll quote the relevant part so you can > see > where i'm coming from. > > "Remind me what munging we have to do to update > that page? > > We've got the monthly donation option ready > to go..." Entirely separate development. Essentially, it's publishing this: http://www.darlingbri.co.uk/evolt/support.htm which is a somewhat more ambitious version of the current page, to satisfy all those people who want to give monthly. It's a simple paypal make clickey. Now that we're on the same page with that bit, can we drop it and move on? >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> if we're going to have an effective donation drive, >>> these things *must* be in front of the user which >>> means they *must* be on weo. there's just no way >>> around that. >> >> Disagree unless you propose to have the donation wall >> on the front page of weo. We have this nice technology >> called a 'hyperlink' by which users can move from one >> page to another. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > at a > bare minimum the donation bar should be out there in front of > everyone, as > it is now. (re)moving it will send the unintended message that we no > longer > need donations. Yep. imo, needs to be on every *eo site. Which is going to be fun and interesting no matter where the master data lives. But that's not at all the same argument as the whole of the app needs to be a development of the weo app which does something entirely different. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>> how do you plan to solve the "things it doesn't do"? >> >> By putting it out for consultation. Which I've done. >> Would you like to take part instead of rubbishing it >> from the off? >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > i *am* taking part. i'm suggesting that there are plenty of good > reasons to > put it on weo. i'm willing to take the time to make that happen, with > the > added advantage that the donation bar will be updated in real-time to > reflect our current donation level. Not sure that real-time matters - regularly updated from the master data, sure. But I think daily updates would be more than plenty > it'll also be protected by existing > authentication with a well-established user system. Which doesn't have a role for treasurer, or permit multiple roles iirc. The demo I've done is low-fi and extremely effective, building on a very nice, very stable, very secure, very flexible role-based authentication system. > we can have added benefits like giving our members the choice to have > donations listed in > their user profile (or not). Which they do at present anyway, and doesn't allow for the full range of ways that donors (not all of whom will be members) may request it. It simply doesn't need (and as a financial system, shouldn't have) multiple editors. Cheers Martin From jeff at jeffhowden.com Sat Jun 28 01:50:54 2003 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Finance] RE: [DesDev] Re: [Content] donation wall In-Reply-To: <1056756382.12762@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> Message-ID: <1056760593.6349@LISTSERV.alphashop.com> martin, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Martin Burns > > Entirely separate development. Essentially, it's > publishing this: > http://www.darlingbri.co.uk/evolt/support.htm > which is a somewhat more ambitious version of the > current page, to satisfy all those people who want > to give monthly. It's a simple paypal make clickey. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< now *that* looks good to me. let's get it in the support article asap. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Now that we're on the same page with that bit, can we > drop it and move on? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< perhaps. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > at a bare minimum the donation bar should be out there > > in front of everyone, as it is now. (re)moving it > > will send the unintended message that we no longer > > need donations. > > Yep. imo, needs to be on every *eo site. Which is going > to be fun and interesting no matter where the master > data lives. > > But that's not at all the same argument as the whole > of the app needs to be a development of the weo app > which does something entirely different. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< can you address my concerns about fragmentation? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > i *am* taking part. i'm suggesting that there are > > plenty of good reasons to put it on weo. i'm willing > > to take the time to make that happen, with the added > > advantage that the donation bar will be updated in > > real-time to reflect our current donation level. > > Not sure that real-time matters - regularly updated from > the master data, sure. But I think daily updates would > be more than plenty ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< sure, but what i meant by real-time was that the donation bar would reflect the current totals *without* the treasurer having to go edit the amount using the utility i set up for them. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > it'll also be protected by existing > > authentication with a well-established user system. > > Which doesn't have a role for treasurer, or permit > multiple roles iirc. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< and maybe shouldn't be limited to just a single person either, for the obvious reasons we've encountered over the past 12+ months. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > we can have added benefits like giving our members > > the choice to have donations listed in their user > > profile (or not). > > Which they do at present anyway, and doesn't allow for > the full range of ways that donors (not all of whom will > be members) may request it. It simply doesn't need (and > as a financial system, shouldn't have) multiple editors. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i'm not suggesting editing capabilities. i'm suggesting a user could choose to have their donations listed on their user page just like approved articles are listed. that functionality does *not* currently exist except in a very primitive fashion by the user manually entering that content into their bio (yuck). .jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/