From evolt at taracleveland.com Thu May 11 11:10:52 2006 From: evolt at taracleveland.com (Tara Cleveland) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 12:10:52 -0400 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest Message-ID: Hi all, According to Martin, we here in desdev are supposed to discuss the two designs that have been submitted and make recommendations to theforum. Please, let's not have this take years and years of going back and forth! http://www.taracleveland.com/evolt/HTML and http://weo.easyweb.co.uk According to the contest guidelines we're supposed to be looking at the following: Judging Criteria * Strength of IA * Beauty of design * Showcases the best in current web dev practise * Degree of accessibility * Effectiveness in degrading to older browsers * Ease of implementation to www.evolt.org (primary) and other fine evolt sites (secondary). Given that one of the designs is mine, I'm not going to comment, except to answer questions. I'm guessing that a large part of the discussion here should centre on the implementation of the designs, but I'm sure all topics will be covered. Go. Discuss. Hurry. Cheers, Tara From adrinux at perlucida.com Sat May 13 17:21:51 2006 From: adrinux at perlucida.com (Adrian Simmons) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 23:21:51 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44665BFF.6000702@perlucida.com> Re-posting my comments here at Tara's request. Tara Cleveland wrote: > > So, I've finally, mostly (I'll never be completely satisfied), > > finished an evolt.org design. I've also been remiss about commenting on this. Partly because I feel bad about making comments on other peoples designs without having done one myself, but since someone else has started I'll join in :) Things I like about this design: - The strong page/section colours - The change in section naming to lists, browsers etc, I agree that makes more sense. - The section tabs at upper right (the colours, the drop shadows, I love those) - The general page typography, colour, rating stars etc - The 'Block' styles in the right sidebar Things I'd like to see improved: - The search and login boxes get a little lost where they are at the moment, I'd like to see those moved up into the header, or some of the dark background colour used in the header used below the search/login bar to highlight it better. - There is no real separation between the main page content and the right sidebar, I think that's a little confusing, I'd like to see better definition of the side bar, right now it almost looks like part of the main column content. Things I don't like: - The curved corner at upper left. For me that curve jars when put next to the evolt cubes. I'd rather see something that echoed the cubes, perhaps steps down, or using the cubes to knock out the corner of the box. - The curved end of the section tabs. This just looks like it should be attached to the top of something but isn't. At the very least I think it should be inverted, so it curves up to the top of the header. - the big quote marks graphic used for quotes Things that we're doing anyway that perhaps should change: - I think this has already been discussed in #evolt, but, I don't think it makes a lot of sense having the article author bio at the top of the article and a blurb about them at the end of the article. These ought to be merged (with the exception of the name and user picture, which I think are nice to have near the start of the article). And ought to be at the end of the article in a horizontal box - a reward for reading the full article if you like. -- Adrian Simmons (aka adrinux) e-mail From lists at nota-bene.org Mon May 15 11:43:26 2006 From: lists at nota-bene.org (Stephane Deschamps) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:43:26 +0200 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4468AFAE.6030701@nota-bene.org> > Hi all, > > According to Martin, we here in desdev are supposed to discuss the > two designs that have been submitted and make recommendations to > theforum. Please, let's not have this take years and years of going > back and forth! Argh. I feel *so* bad because I've been busy (who hasn't) putting up the equivalent of @media2005 in French for next Septembre. http://www.parisweb2006.org/ I'm considering going into evolt limbo for a few months. Not that anyone can make the difference with *now*, I'm sure :( > http://www.taracleveland.com/evolt/HTML > > and > > http://weo.easyweb.co.uk which are both nice, the first in visual appeal and the second in perceived information architecture. > According to the contest guidelines we're supposed to be looking at > the following: > > Judging Criteria > > * Strength of IA > * Beauty of design > * Showcases the best in current web dev practise > * Degree of accessibility > * Effectiveness in degrading to older browsers > * Ease of implementation to www.evolt.org (primary) and other > fine evolt sites (secondary). > > Given that one of the designs is mine, I'm not going to comment, > except to answer questions. I'm guessing that a large part of the > discussion here should centre on the implementation of the designs, > but I'm sure all topics will be covered. And that's where I'm going to say that I can't say much that hasn't already been said. Is mixing the concepts a valid proposition? I mean, f'r'instance your graphic appeal and Martin's IA? (and yes it's draughty at best, I'm typing with only a mental image of each because I'm on a train, but didn't want to let yet another day o by without answering) -- St?phane Deschamps personal: http://www.nota-bene.org/ org: http://www.evolt.org/ french org: http://www.pompage.net/ From dean.mah at gmail.com Fri May 26 12:31:45 2006 From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:31:45 -0600 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'd change the judging criteria. Because of the apathetic nature of this community, I would vote for the easiest to implement. For that reason, I would vote for Martin's as it is already made up of Drupal templates. If it wasn't for that, I would probably vote for Tara's version. Dean Tara Cleveland wrote: > Hi all, > > According to Martin, we here in desdev are supposed to discuss the > two designs that have been submitted and make recommendations to > theforum. Please, let's not have this take years and years of going > back and forth! > > http://www.taracleveland.com/evolt/HTML > > and > > http://weo.easyweb.co.uk > > According to the contest guidelines we're supposed to be looking at > the following: > > Judging Criteria > > * Strength of IA > * Beauty of design > * Showcases the best in current web dev practise > * Degree of accessibility > * Effectiveness in degrading to older browsers > * Ease of implementation to www.evolt.org (primary) and other > fine evolt sites (secondary). > > Given that one of the designs is mine, I'm not going to comment, > except to answer questions. I'm guessing that a large part of the > discussion here should centre on the implementation of the designs, > but I'm sure all topics will be covered. > > Go. Discuss. Hurry. > > Cheers, > Tara -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEdzuBiM6T3GNfj8ERAhg3AJ9mEHlc1DlaANORDcdMfKis51A3zgCfVoqI 3EmoOaP4f5QuPEIdDmE1bmU= =HPHj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adrinux at perlucida.com Sat May 27 04:53:32 2006 From: adrinux at perlucida.com (Adrian Simmons) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 10:53:32 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> References: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4478219C.7060802@perlucida.com> Dean Mah wrote: > I would vote for Martin's as it is already made up of Drupal > templates. It's not *that* hard to make Drupal themes. > If it wasn't for that, I would probably vote for Tara's version. So can we take that as a vote for Tara's version? =D -- Adrian Simmons (aka adrinux) e-mail From dmah at shaw.ca Sat May 27 08:11:14 2006 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 07:11:14 -0600 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: <4478219C.7060802@perlucida.com> References: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> <4478219C.7060802@perlucida.com> Message-ID: <44784FF2.3060906@shaw.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Adrian Simmons wrote: > Dean Mah wrote: >> I would vote for Martin's as it is already made up of Drupal >> templates. > > It's not *that* hard to make Drupal themes. Are you volunteering then? If someone doesn't step up and do it, it's not going to get done. >> If it wasn't for that, I would probably vote for Tara's version. > > So can we take that as a vote for Tara's version? =D Here's what I would recommend to theforum. Set a deadline for the Drupalization of Tara's version. If no progress has been made by that time, go with Martin's version. I'm not sure how hard it is to make a Drupal theme but I would set a time limit of 2 weeks to a month. Dean -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEeE/yiM6T3GNfj8ERAtt0AKChWbUaRgRVCwfAgZ4FrrbxbGaXQwCdE99O wk6DBY7Re6HRUDmOVUhPaGo= =jRz/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adrinux at perlucida.com Sat May 27 10:30:48 2006 From: adrinux at perlucida.com (Adrian Simmons) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 16:30:48 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: <44784FF2.3060906@shaw.ca> References: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> <4478219C.7060802@perlucida.com> <44784FF2.3060906@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <447870A8.2010809@perlucida.com> Dean Mah wrote: > Here's what I would recommend to theforum. Set a deadline for the > Drupalization of Tara's version. If no progress has been made by that > time, go with Martin's version. It's also worth noting, as Martin has said before, that Drupal can have multiple themes, they could both get installed with one set as default and leaving if for the user to decide which they prefer. I'm not sure diluting the 'brand' in that way is a good idea though. > I'm not sure how hard it is to make a > Drupal theme but I would set a time limit of 2 weeks to a month. 2 weeks is enough when you're getting paid, but finding the time to volunteer is the tricky thing. 1 - 2 months would be more realistic for me. (Currently have 3 Drupal themes in production!) But we're still not discussing the finer points of Tara's design/the current design on which it was based. I feel strongly that having the current 'community data' (article author, picture, stats etc) in with the article adds too much clutter, and I'd like to see it moved down next to the 'author bio' (this is something Tara's inherited from the old design). Anyone else have thought about this? -- Adrian Simmons (aka adrinux) e-mail From martin at uckwa.org Sat May 27 16:20:44 2006 From: martin at uckwa.org (Martin Burns) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:20:44 +0100 Subject: [DesDev] Design contest In-Reply-To: <447870A8.2010809@perlucida.com> References: <44773B81.2070100@gmail.com> <4478219C.7060802@perlucida.com> <44784FF2.3060906@shaw.ca> <447870A8.2010809@perlucida.com> Message-ID: On 27 May 2006, at 16:30, Adrian Simmons wrote: > I feel strongly that having the current 'community data' (article > author, > picture, stats etc) in with the article adds too much clutter, and > I'd like > to see it moved down next to the 'author bio' (this is something > Tara's > inherited from the old design). Anyone else have thought about this? Yeah, I was trying to stay out of this, particularly as Tara's incommunicado rn. She and I have talked about this on #evolt and still disagree ;-) but I really do feel that having the author data inpinging on the article as per the current and previous designs is just horrid. It causes all sorts of limitations on the start of the article. Far better to shift it out of that flow. The trouble is, I do like having some of that info at the start of an article, rather than it all being at the end. So I'd rather it were all in the sidebar. I think we've been bound by 800x600 longer than is necessary - we've been thinking too long about the general web audience (and even that's moved on) rather than *our* audience. I'm sitting here with a dual head setup, one at 1600px and one at 1024px. And I really don't think that that's rare. Even my work laptop runs at 1024px wide with its tiny 12.1" screen. ALA's widescreen design is a year old, guys. I like that we're a bit conservative, but we don't have to be Luddite *all* the time. btw, I've got some time the week after next away from work. I'll see what I can do to Drupalise the design. Cheers Martin -- > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter > http://www.nuclearelephant.com/projects/dspam/ Sell Cloth Nappies from your website: http://www.purpur.co.uk/announcing-purpur-associates