From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 15:14:23 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:14:23 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Marketing] Donations header
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>

Given that the current header is
a) meaningless
b) embarassing
can we please remove it until such time as it's neither?

Cheers
Martin
-- 
"Names, once they are in common use, quickly
 become mere sounds, their etymology being
 buried, like so many of the earth's marvels,
 beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie
From lach at illuminosity.net  Wed Feb  4 00:48:14 2004
From: lach at illuminosity.net (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:48:14 +1100
Subject: [Marketing] Donations header
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
Message-ID: <4020414E.6020207@illuminosity.net>

Martin wrote:
> Given that the current header is
> a) meaningless
> b) embarassing

Makes sense. Should desdev or sysadmin be cc'ed?
-- 
Lach
http://illuminosity.net/

From lach at illuminosity.net  Wed Feb  4 00:49:43 2004
From: lach at illuminosity.net (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:49:43 +1100
Subject: [Marketing] activity of this committee >> voting for steering
 reps
In-Reply-To: <01a401c3c24e$25a95d80$f301a8c0@DWARFS>
References: <01a401c3c24e$25a95d80$f301a8c0@DWARFS>
Message-ID: <402041A7.6050901@illuminosity.net>

Elfur Logadottir wrote:

> we need to vote our new steering reps from this group, right about now.
> there are things to be done and said and organized and I'm hoping that the
> new steering will be up and running on new years day. so get your fluids
> going and vote new reps.

Could we have a list of people who haven't served from another
group and would be prepared to serve for marketing?
-- 
Lach
http://illuminosity.net/

From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Wed Feb  4 05:50:13 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 05:50:13 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Donations header
In-Reply-To: <4020414E.6020207@illuminosity.net>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
	<4020414E.6020207@illuminosity.net>
Message-ID: <0038A106-56D6-11D8-AEC6-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>


On 4 Feb 2004, at 00:48, Lachlan Cannon wrote:

> Martin wrote:
>> Given that the current header is
>> a) meaningless
>> b) embarassing
>
> Makes sense. Should desdev or sysadmin be cc'ed?

Once we/finance have agreed it

Cheers
Martin
--

From evolt at nota-bene.org  Sat Feb  7 09:37:55 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:37:55 +0100
Subject: [Marketing] activity of this committee >> voting for steering
 reps
In-Reply-To: <402041A7.6050901@illuminosity.net>
References: <01a401c3c24e$25a95d80$f301a8c0@DWARFS>
	<402041A7.6050901@illuminosity.net>
Message-ID: <4024B1F3.5000100@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Lachlan Cannon' when='04/02/04 01:49'>

> Could we have a list of people who haven't served from another
> group and would be prepared to serve for marketing?

The group looks very quiet though.

That's sad. But maybe marketing is redundant with what is done in part 
by the content group (assuming all the contact form anwsering).

Although I agree with whoever said, a few weeks ago, that keeping a 
marketing group is A Good Thing.

-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/
From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Feb  9 14:46:25 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:46:25 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [Finance] Steering reps
References: 
	<200311261155.hAQBtha27158@rs1.lexonia.net><p06002000bbeabe93a78e@[192.168.1.109]>
	<002701c3b5f4$34220bc0$1200a8c0@david>
Message-ID: <007701c3ef1b$7e7b9690$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>

i see these requests have been done on the donation page...

i haven't received anything for evolt (other than statements from the
bank) yet, but thanks! ... to whichever one of you DesDevians (or
Marketeers) did the deed!

-dave

David Kaufman <david@gigawatt.com> wrote:
>
> Marlene Bruce <marlene@looneylabs.com> wrote:
>> [...] Dave, I'd like to change from mine to your address on the
>> web site so checks go directly to you.
>
> that'd be great, Marlene.  i'll even add an "Evolt.org" (sticker from
> cafepress!) to my mailbox so they can simply address donations to:
>
>   evolt.org
>   87 East 21st Street
>   Bayonne, New Jersey 07002

>
> while you're at it, could you (or somebody at DesDev/Marketing) put
> the link to the Evolt Gear cafepress store *back* on the donations
> page?  it seems to have been removed at some point ... The link is:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/evoltgear



From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Feb  9 15:03:22 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:03:22 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
References: <4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org>
Message-ID: <008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>

hi stef!

s t e f <notabene@apinc.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I did a little visit to cafepress this afternoon and saw that the
> microfiber cap is not in the list anymore.

i don't remember removing it... but at your request i've re-added it.

> Does anyone know the reason for that disappearance?

gremlins.  darn those hat-eating gremlins ...it must have been them.

> The quality is really good and the color is nice.

glad you like it!  ...it's nice to hear feedback about cafepress's
products.  i've only gotten my hands on 2 of the t-shirts (the plain and
the jersey), the Gold shirt (of course), and the coffee mug, personally.
and it's so hard to judge quality from a 30-word description and
2-by-3-inch gif :-)

IMO the t-shirts are decent. the material is 100% cotton, but not the
*best* quality or weight of material i've ever seen.  but the graphic
transfer quality is excellent -- the 300dpi evolt logos look excellent.
and they wear well.  mine has faded only ever-so-slightly over the
last --what, 8 months?  and i've worn and washed it quite a lot.

the coffee mug gets daily use, looks great and is as big and roomy as
any i've used!

> I like mine and have been advertising it to put money into evolt's
> pockets. :-)

well, advertise away!  sales have been rather slow of late.  i wonder if
we should solicit submissions of fresh, exciting new graphics and
humorous product ideas from the talent pool of The List?

-dave

From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Feb  9 15:18:05 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:18:05 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
References: <4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org>
	<008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
Message-ID: <00c601c3ef1f$ea953ee0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>

David Kaufman <david@gigawatt.com> wrote:
> ...i've only gotten my hands on 2 of the t-shirts (the plain
> and the jersey), the Gold shirt (of course), and the coffee mug,

that typo should have been the "Golf shirt", not the GOld shirt -- i
*wish* cafepress had a gold shirt, or a black shirt, or *any* color
shirt, for that matter, besides white.  but at least we can always spin
it in marketing: "at evolt, we have t-shirts in *any* color you like!
(...as long as you like white)"

-dave

From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com  Mon Feb  9 17:57:29 2004
From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:57:29 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
Message-ID: <OF0A1795FF.9A2E6F18-ON80256E35.006269DB-80256E35.0062A5C6@uk.ibm.com>





Hey David/Stef

Couple of questions;
1) do we have any baby toddler sizes - noting that the number of evolt
bairns is growing all the time ;-)
2) The main barrier to selling more to me is that you're paying shipping
from the US, and then our local post office charges sales tax and charges
you for collecting it on behalf of the government (and sales tax on the
charges), which gets really expensive really quickly - a single shirt ends
up as $50 or so. Any chance of having something similar EU based?

Cheers
Martin

___
Martin Burns
IBM Business Consulting Services
Tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985

David wrote on 09/02/2004 15:03:22:

> well, advertise away!  sales have been rather slow of late.  i wonder if
> we should solicit submissions of fresh, exciting new graphics and
> humorous product ideas from the talent pool of The List?


From evolt at nota-bene.org  Mon Feb  9 18:58:29 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:58:29 +0100
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <OF0A1795FF.9A2E6F18-ON80256E35.006269DB-80256E35.0062A5C6@uk.ibm.com>
References: <OF0A1795FF.9A2E6F18-ON80256E35.006269DB-80256E35.0062A5C6@uk.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <4027D855.7070207@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Martin Paul Burns' when='09/02/04 18:57'>

> 2) The main barrier to selling more to me is that you're paying shipping
> from the US, and then our local post office charges sales tax and charges
> you for collecting it on behalf of the government (and sales tax on the
> charges), which gets really expensive really quickly - a single shirt ends
> up as $50 or so. Any chance of having something similar EU based?

Hiya Martin,

As I told you a few weeks ago on the IRC I'm planning on seeing what can 
be done with a friend of mine who's already got an online apparel shop.
See <http://www.source.tm.fr>

The only drawback is that so far he's told me that he needs *advance* 
money so that the tees can be of really good quality (serigraphy is 
incredible). If any of you has ever grabbed a Fray t-shirt, she/he must 
know what I mean. It's *this* quality.

But he's also friends with a per-demand transfer t-shirt maker, so maybe 
there's something there. We have planned to meet about this question soon.

Of course, 'soon' in those hectic modern times is a relative notion. So 
far no date has been taken, but I'm hopeful. :)

His stunt would eventually be the same as cafepress: once the price for 
fabrication has been calculated, he'd add a few Euros for the evolt kitty.

I'll keep y'all informed.

-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/
From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 20:48:08 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:48:08 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
References: <4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org>
	<008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>


On 9 Feb 2004, at 19:01, s t e f wrote:

>>> I like mine and have been advertising it to put money into evolt's
>>> pockets. :-)
>> well, advertise away!  sales have been rather slow of late.  i wonder 
>> if
>> we should solicit submissions of fresh, exciting new graphics and
>> humorous product ideas from the talent pool of The List?
>
> Or maybe make it more apparent, or regularly reminding people of its 
> existence?

Tying this into the donation bar debate, would it make sense to use the 
current donation bar space to advertise shirts?

Cheers
Martin
--

From evolt at nota-bene.org  Tue Feb 10 18:31:56 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:31:56 +0100
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
References: <4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org>
	<008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4029239C.7020305@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Martin Burns' when='09/02/04 21:48'>

>> Or maybe make it more apparent, or regularly reminding people of its 
>> existence?
> 
> Tying this into the donation bar debate, would it make sense to use the 
> current donation bar space to advertise shirts?

Since I raised the point, you've got a +1 from me.

Hey, does it make me an active Marketing member now? Damn. Should've 
kept quiet.

-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/
From lists at mantruc.com  Tue Feb 10 19:12:36 2004
From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:12:36 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <4029239C.7020305@nota-bene.org>
References: <4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org>
	<008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
	<4029239C.7020305@nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <40292D24.7080401@mantruc.com>

s t e f wrote:

> <quote who='Martin Burns' when='09/02/04 21:48'>
>
>>> Or maybe make it more apparent, or regularly reminding people of its 
>>> existence?
>>
>>
>> Tying this into the donation bar debate, would it make sense to use 
>> the current donation bar space to advertise shirts?
>
>
> Since I raised the point, you've got a +1 from me.

+1

>
> Hey, does it make me an active Marketing member now? Damn. Should've 
> kept quiet.
>
ouch!


From david at gigawatt.com  Tue Feb 10 19:36:05 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:36:05 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
References: 
	<4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org><008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
	<4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <009101c3f00d$204f87f0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>

Martin Burns <martin@easyweb.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Tying this into the donation bar debate, would it make sense to use
> the current donation bar space to advertise shirts?

that sounds like an awesome idea!

is it a coincidence that the donation bar space is 480 x 60?

-dave, visions dancing in his head of an animated banner ad with a
<head> hat scrolling in from stage right, followed by a bouncing <body>
tag shirt, followed by a swooping </body> tag shirt-back, followed by
...i dunno --some clever tag-line i cant think of?


From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Tue Feb 10 21:00:16 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:00:16 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <009101c3f00d$204f87f0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
References: 
	<4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org><008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
	<4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
	<009101c3f00d$204f87f0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
Message-ID: <40294660.4060808@easyweb.co.uk>

David Kaufman wrote:

>Martin Burns <martin@easyweb.co.uk> wrote:
>  
>
>>Tying this into the donation bar debate, would it make sense to use
>>the current donation bar space to advertise shirts?
>>    
>>
>
>that sounds like an awesome idea!
>
>is it a coincidence that the donation bar space is 480 x 60?
>
>-dave, visions dancing in his head of an animated banner ad with a
><head> hat scrolling in from stage right, followed by a bouncing <body>
>tag shirt, followed by a swooping </body> tag shirt-back, followed by
>...i dunno --some clever tag-line i cant think of?
>  
>
No no no no no no no! Nothing that looks like a banner ad!

:-)

Cheers
Martin
From lists at mantruc.com  Tue Feb 10 21:40:27 2004
From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:40:27 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <40294660.4060808@easyweb.co.uk>
References: 
	<4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org><008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
	<4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
	<009101c3f00d$204f87f0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <40294660.4060808@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40294FCB.90501@mantruc.com>

Martin Burns wrote:

> David Kaufman wrote:
>
>> -dave, visions dancing in his head of an animated banner ad with a
>> <head> hat scrolling in from stage right, followed by a bouncing <body>
>> tag shirt, followed by a swooping </body> tag shirt-back, followed by
>> ...i dunno --some clever tag-line i cant think of?
>>  
>>
> No no no no no no no! Nothing that looks like a banner ad!


....a pop up window???

/runs to hide behind curtain and laugh


From evolt at nota-bene.org  Tue Feb 10 22:43:15 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:43:15 +0100
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <40294660.4060808@easyweb.co.uk>
References: 
	<4016D3F5.4000309@apinc.org><008001c3ef1d$dc9ea3a0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
	<4027D90C.8050102@nota-bene.org>
	<4488B284-5B41-11D8-89A5-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
	<009101c3f00d$204f87f0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <40294660.4060808@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40295E83.4010404@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Martin Burns' when='10/02/04 22:00'>

>> that sounds like an awesome idea!
>>
>> is it a coincidence that the donation bar space is 480 x 60?
>>
>> -dave, visions dancing in his head of an animated banner ad with a
>> <head> hat scrolling in from stage right, followed by a bouncing <body>
>> tag shirt, followed by a swooping </body> tag shirt-back, followed by
>> ...i dunno --some clever tag-line i cant think of?
>>  
>>
> No no no no no no no! Nothing that looks like a banner ad!

Not a bad idea, come to think of it.

I mean, not the banner-ad-that-looks-like-one, but the idea of trying to 
add an image and a nifty tagline.

"move your <body>"?
"evolt, I've got you in my <head>"?

"the queen says: be<head>ed"

Yeah, right, bedtime.

-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/
From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Fri Feb 13 12:33:19 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:33:19 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: Donations header
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
Message-ID: <CDDF1C5C-5E20-11D8-A758-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>

As several people have agreed with my proposal, and no-one's disagreed, 
I'm calling it.

Dave, Elfur and Lach, can you please make the request to desdev via 
steering?

Thanks!
Martin

On 3 Feb 2004, at 15:14, Martin wrote:

> Given that the current header is
> a) meaningless
> b) embarassing
> can we please remove it until such time as it's neither?
--

From evolt at nota-bene.org  Mon Feb 16 22:58:46 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:58:46 +0100
Subject: [Marketing] Re: Donations header
In-Reply-To: <CDDF1C5C-5E20-11D8-A758-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402031513170.11757@localhost>
	<CDDF1C5C-5E20-11D8-A758-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40314B26.1040904@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Martin Burns' when='13/02/04 13:33'>

> As several people have agreed with my proposal, and no-one's disagreed, 
> I'm calling it.
> 
> Dave, Elfur and Lach, can you please make the request to desdev via 
> steering?

Aren't we going to use it as a mock advertisement area for cafepress 
thingies, then?

Damn, me and my puns all ready to be put in banner ads.


-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/
From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com  Tue Feb 17 00:06:47 2004
From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:06:47 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: Donations header
In-Reply-To: <40314B26.1040904@nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <OFD07EAB96.30941395-ON80256E3D.00008791-80256E3D.00009DB9@uk.ibm.com>





stef wrote on 16/02/2004 22:58:46:

> <quote who='Martin Burns' when='13/02/04 13:33'>
>
> > As several people have agreed with my proposal, and no-one's disagreed,

> > I'm calling it.
> >
> > Dave, Elfur and Lach, can you please make the request to desdev via
> > steering?
>
> Aren't we going to use it as a mock advertisement area for cafepress
> thingies, then?

Probably, but let's get the current garbage out of sight first while we
think about it.

/me prods Lach to take it to steering on behalf of marketing.

Cheers
Martin

From david at gigawatt.com  Tue Feb 17 14:43:24 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:43:24 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
References: <OF0A1795FF.9A2E6F18-ON80256E35.006269DB-80256E35.0062A5C6@uk.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c3f564$65958ba0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>

Martin Paul Burns <martin.burns@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Couple of questions;
> 1) do we have any baby toddler sizes - noting that the number of evolt
> bairns is growing all the time ;-)

There are baby products available - i just set up a toddler-tshirt, a
creeper (one-piece) and a bib -- dunno why i skipped these previously.  i
suppose because my toddler is now a teenager :-)

> 2) The main barrier to selling more to me is that you're paying
> shipping from the US, and then our local post office charges sales
> tax and charges you for collecting it on behalf of the government
> (and sales tax on the charges), which gets really expensive really
> quickly - a single shirt ends up as $50 or so. Any chance of having
> something similar EU based?

i hope stef can swing something on that side of the pond!

another possibility to consider, we can order our *own* stuff from
cafepress in bulk (quantities of 15 or more, with mixed sizes ok) and not
only do we not have to pay our own $5 markup, we get and additional
(similar) discount.  although there would still be some shipping cost and
some VAT taxes i'm sure, we could make a bulk buy, and a bulk shipment to
some stragegic point euro-side.

See: Cafepress Bulk rates
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/bulk.aspx

for instance we can buy 15-plus t-shirts which currently cost us $13.99
and we markup to 19.00, for $9.00 each.  we'd have to:

    1. determine bulk buy + bulk shipping cost
    2. research import taxes that will be levied
    3. do the math to determine a euro price
       that covers this cost + re-shipping "locally"
    4. oh yeah, and setup a website + merchant account

hmmm, maybe that's the hard way :-)

but one thing *is* apparent.  whether we get product from cafepress or a
local manufacturer, we'll still need #4) an "euvolt gear" ecommerce site,
a payment processing solution and a merchant account.

perhaps we can rally the troops (on the list) to pitch in and build such a
thing (shamelessly ripping off -- oh, say... cafepress frinstance as a
spec :-) -- it'd be a nice addition to the list of projects evolt
publishes as open source on sourceforge, as well as a starting point to
inspire stef's friend to ramp up for some real orders.

who knows, we might be able to help the guy fill the entire UK niche for a
cafepress-like service, get a cost-effective evoltgear store euro-side and
grow ourselves a generous commercial contributor in the process :-)

-dave

From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com  Tue Feb 17 14:54:11 2004
From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:54:11 +0000
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
In-Reply-To: <002c01c3f564$65958ba0$5456a8c0@CPXPDEV02>
Message-ID: <OF5D3BBEED.208929B0-ON80256E3D.00517534-80256E3D.0051DC5B@uk.ibm.com>





Dave wrote on 17/02/2004 14:43:24:

> Martin Paul Burns <martin.burns@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
> >
>
> > 2) The main barrier to selling more to me is that you're paying
> > shipping from the US, and then our local post office charges sales
> > tax and charges you for collecting it on behalf of the government
> > (and sales tax on the charges), which gets really expensive really
> > quickly - a single shirt ends up as $50 or so. Any chance of having
> > something similar EU based?
>
> i hope stef can swing something on that side of the pond!

I hope so too


> another possibility to consider, we can order our *own* stuff from
> cafepress in bulk [and sell it on ourselves]

>     1. determine bulk buy + bulk shipping cost
>     2. research import taxes that will be levied
>     3. do the math to determine a euro price
>        that covers this cost + re-shipping "locally"
>     4. oh yeah, and setup a website + merchant account
>
> hmmm, maybe that's the hard way :-)

Yes it is, because in step4 we also have "Do lots of accounting for
cross-border sales taxes"

> but one thing *is* apparent.  whether we get product from cafepress or a
> local manufacturer, we'll still need #4) an "euvolt gear" ecommerce site,
> a payment processing solution and a merchant account.

Nope, never going to happen I think. It's way too much work. The only way
it's going to happen is if we outsource the lot of it.

I'd rather hand it over to someone like elReg:
http://www.cashncarrion.co.uk/ with us doing at most production of
merchandise.


Cheers
Martin

From david at gigawatt.com  Tue Feb 17 14:43:24 2004
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:43:24 -0500
Subject: [Marketing] Re: [theforum] cafepress etc
Message-ID: <994B4110-6160-11D8-BC93-003065B8A242@gigawatt.com>

Martin Paul Burns <martin.burns@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Couple of questions;
> 1) do we have any baby toddler sizes - noting that the number of evolt
> bairns is growing all the time ;-)

There are baby products available - i just set up a toddler-tshirt, a
creeper (one-piece) and a bib -- dunno why i skipped these previously.  
i
suppose because my toddler is now a teenager :-)

> 2) The main barrier to selling more to me is that you're paying
> shipping from the US, and then our local post office charges sales
> tax and charges you for collecting it on behalf of the government
> (and sales tax on the charges), which gets really expensive really
> quickly - a single shirt ends up as $50 or so. Any chance of having
> something similar EU based?

i hope stef can swing something on that side of the pond!

another possibility to consider, we can order our *own* stuff from
cafepress in bulk (quantities of 15 or more, with mixed sizes ok) and 
not
only do we not have to pay our own $5 markup, we get and additional
(similar) discount.  although there would still be some shipping cost 
and
some VAT taxes i'm sure, we could make a bulk buy, and a bulk shipment 
to
some stragegic point euro-side.

See: Cafepress Bulk rates
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/bulk.aspx

for instance we can buy 15-plus t-shirts which currently cost us $13.99
and we markup to 19.00, for $9.00 each.  we'd have to:

     1. determine bulk buy + bulk shipping cost
     2. research import taxes that will be levied
     3. do the math to determine a euro price
        that covers this cost + re-shipping "locally"
     4. oh yeah, and setup a website + merchant account

hmmm, maybe that's the hard way :-)

but one thing *is* apparent.  whether we get product from cafepress or a
local manufacturer, we'll still need #4) an "euvolt gear" ecommerce 
site,
a payment processing solution and a merchant account.

perhaps we can rally the troops (on the list) to pitch in and build 
such a
thing (shamelessly ripping off -- oh, say... cafepress frinstance as a
spec :-) -- it'd be a nice addition to the list of projects evolt
publishes as open source on sourceforge, as well as a starting point to
inspire stef's friend to ramp up for some real orders.

who knows, we might be able to help the guy fill the entire UK niche 
for a
cafepress-like service, get a cost-effective evoltgear store euro-side 
and
grow ourselves a generous commercial contributor in the process :-)

-dave

---
evolt.org wiki: http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/
-
How can you help?
http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/FactFindingMission

From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Thu Feb 26 09:56:59 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:56:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Marketing] RE: [Content] RE: Mail Alert! - Wed Feb 25 - 60503
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEIBPGAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEIBPGAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402260951250.29133@localhost>

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jeff Howden wrote:

> martin,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > However, had he requested db removal, I don't see that
> > we would have had a choice, whether we make a habit of
> > it or not.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> don't see that we would have a choice?  we don't have a privacy policy that
> states what we'll do in cases like this.  additionally, maybe in your neck
> of the woods the laws are different, but where weo lives, there's nothing
> that says that a request to have an account deleted must be honored.

Well, if you're happy with a "do the least that's absolutely required of
us", sure. And which juristiction evolt services fall under is perhaps an
open question - I've certainly seen cases that suggest that the key thing
is where the *user* is based (Yahoo! and Nazi regalia for one).

HOwever, I think there's a PR angle here also (which is why I've cc'd this
to marketing). tbh, I'm not even sure we *have* a published privacy
policy, which if true, is A Bad Thing(tm).


> besides, it's not like accounts require any sort of verifiable personal
> information and the system isn't designed to account for deleted accounts
> with regards to comments and article authorship.  so yeah, he's not getting
> deleted.

SOmething to think about for the future.

Cheers
Martin

-- 
"Names, once they are in common use, quickly
 become mere sounds, their etymology being
 buried, like so many of the earth's marvels,
 beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie
From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Thu Feb 26 10:17:12 2004
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:17:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Marketing] 
 Privacy policy. was:RE: [Content] RE: Mail Alert! - Wed Feb 25 -
 60503
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402260951250.29133@localhost>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEIBPGAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
 <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402260951250.29133@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402261011050.29238@localhost>

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Martin wrote:

> HOwever, I think there's a PR angle here also (which is why I've cc'd this
> to marketing). tbh, I'm not even sure we *have* a published privacy
> policy, which if true, is A Bad Thing(tm).

To be a bit clearer:
1) Not having a priv policy is a disaster waiting to happen
2) While I think we *should* respect people's wishes to be deleted from
   the db, I'd be perfectly comfortable if we had an agreed, published
   policy that said we can't/won't. That way, we can point people to
   the policy and tell them to stop complaining.

I'm not 100% sure who's responsible for stuff like privacy policy, but
certainly both desdev and marketing have to have a hand in it. I'd also
guess that content has the best view of how we currently operate.

Content ppl, do you want to draft a best guess as where we are now? Then I
think Marketing can review based on avoiding the kind of own-goal that
Orkut et al have scored, and desdev can review based on how possible it
is.

I think steering should co-ordinate from here, though.

Cheers
Martin

-- 
"Names, once they are in common use, quickly
 become mere sounds, their etymology being
 buried, like so many of the earth's marvels,
 beneath the dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie
From evolt at nota-bene.org  Thu Feb 26 20:19:24 2004
From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:19:24 +0100
Subject: [Marketing]  Privacy policy. was:RE: [Content] RE: Mail Alert!
 - Wed Feb 25 - 60503
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.53.0402261011050.29238@localhost>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEIBPGAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
	<Pine.OSX.4.53.0402260951250.29133@localhost>
	<Pine.OSX.4.53.0402261011050.29238@localhost>
Message-ID: <403E54CC.5010703@nota-bene.org>

<quote who='Martin' when='26/02/04 11:17'>

> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Martin wrote:
> 
> 
>>HOwever, I think there's a PR angle here also (which is why I've cc'd this
>>to marketing). tbh, I'm not even sure we *have* a published privacy
>>policy, which if true, is A Bad Thing(tm).

True.

> To be a bit clearer:
> 1) Not having a priv policy is a disaster waiting to happen

True.

> 2) While I think we *should* respect people's wishes to be deleted from
>    the db, I'd be perfectly comfortable if we had an agreed, published
>    policy that said we can't/won't. That way, we can point people to
>    the policy and tell them to stop complaining.

And true.

> I'm not 100% sure who's responsible for stuff like privacy policy, but
> certainly both desdev and marketing have to have a hand in it. I'd also
> guess that content has the best view of how we currently operate.

I'd say it's Marketing that says how it should be presented and/or 
managed, but considering how the DB is done right now (from what I 
understood from Jeff), for the moment it would be good to say that 
accounts can't be deleted.

> Content ppl, do you want to draft a best guess as where we are now? Then I
> think Marketing can review based on avoiding the kind of own-goal that
> Orkut et al have scored, and desdev can review based on how possible it
> is.
> 
> I think steering should co-ordinate from here, though.

Mmmmyeah. I see what you mean. But there's no point for steering IMHO. 
Right now Jeff's said how the database works, content is pretty sure 
that there is no article published on this kind (sez Garrett), so it's 
Marketing's role right now to discuss it, isn't it?

Besides, Marketing's been so silent since I subscribed... it's going to 
be an agitated, without-me-coz-I'm-gone-to-the-countryside, exciting 
weekend... ;)

-- 
s t e f
http://www.nota-bene.org/