[Finance] Future Hosting finance position

[Martin Burns]

s t e f wrote:

> <quote who='Martin Burns' when='15/02/04 21:35'>
>
> Preamble: I'm quite new to this side of things, evolt-wise, as you all 
> know. So I may say some silly things, just be patient, OK?


No problem

>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> While I think that it's been absolutely excellent that we've relied 
>> (and at the moment continue to rely) on hosting donated by 
>> individuals, and mean absolutely zero ingratitude to those that 
>> provide it (which includes me btw), I think that it's non-ideal to 
>> rely on personally-provided hosted as
>
> Where we should be
>
> (edited out as:)
> a) ability and desire of small number of individuals, no backups for 
> leo and weo.
>
> This is a big concern indeed.
>
> b) negociation power.

Partially, but the bigger point is "who is in charge?" And the answer 
should always be 'evolt.org'. But that's perhaps a point for steering to 
consider as I'm *trying* to stick to finance-related points ;-)

> Point (b), as I said: I can't see the point. We've been among friends, 
> and although I see what you're implying (we wouldn't negociate harshly 
> with friends), what's the need of negociation? -- or, more accurately, 
> has it ever arisen?

When we were hosted with Ron, we were 'officially' paying USD500/month 
(which is one of the sources for the donation bar target). Because we 
were among friends, we didn't take the time to challenge that, or to 
look elsewhere. Ron also still has some evolt.org hardware which we've 
never pushed for a return of. We've also been in the situation with Dan 
where he stated that he was paying cash to his employer to host us. We 
never saw documentation of that, and because we were among friends we 
never pushed it. It's not that I doubt the fact, but just that we need 
to be able to decide to be firm about such things without the risk of 
offending friends.

And no matter what the history, the risk is that in the future, hosting 
with friends does not leave us with a known state of affairs. We cannot 
be sure that we will be evicted from our hosts with short or no notice. 
We cannot be sure that friends will not suffer a sudden shortage of cash 
and insist on payment that we haven't budgeted for.

> Point (c), well-- remembering a famous rant (was it by tara?) about 
> putting your money where your mouth is and how evolt has very few 
> bucks to spare compared to the service it provides, I wonder if the 
> cash that is left would not be put to better use as a safety net, in 
> case of crashes, emergency movements like the ones that happened 
> before, etc.

We have a safety net, but it's still in the box it came in. By the time 
we needed it, it would be too late to use. Naturally, budgets would be 
developed such that we would have contingency plans.

> I don't see any problem in your reasoning, except, seen from outside 
> the realm of hosting expenditures etc, that of course I'm content with 
> the status-quo, having neither to manage nor to move the machines around.

Of course, this would need agreement with sysadmin. I'm trying to ensure 
that we've thought it through too.

Cheers
Martin