From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr  1 00:17:56 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:17:56 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less practical
than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page, recording
the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important for me,
very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've certainly been able to drag elements across the page witha script, at
least in IE 5+ but I've never been able to get it slickly working in
Netscape. I can mimic the window/outlook interface of dragging things around
the screen, but its only effective for small images and text I've found. I
tried doing it with a form once, but found half the form couldn't keep up
with the drag!

Cheers
Andrew Gibson




From light_wt at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 00:36:13 2003
From: light_wt at hotmail.com (light_wt)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:36:13 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] ? Need help on frame ?
References: <F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com>
	<007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <OE30LIuyR5ZYpiM6Ug50000a1b4@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I have more or less a redirect problem using frame in html code.  I wonder
if there is a clean solution using javascript.

In html, I have these files:
index.html (with background musicindex.mid),
frameA.html,
musicA.html, and
contentA.html.

>From a link in index.html, it will launch frameA.html with musicA.html and
contentA.html.

Inside of the contentA.html, there are the previous, top, and next buttons.
As the musicA.html is playing along, clicking  the top button goes back to
the index.html using <A href="../index.htm" >.

The problem is when displaying index.html.  The index.html is being display
as part of the frame from frameA.html.  Therefore, it is still playing the
musicA.html from the frameA, rather than playing the musicindex.mid.

What should I do to make the top button link in contentA.html to play the
background muisic of  index.html?

Thanks.

From andy78 at centrin.net.id  Tue Apr  1 01:30:17 2003
From: andy78 at centrin.net.id (andy susanto)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:30:17 +0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Javascript Digest, Vol 1, Issue 979
References: <20030331140012.26FDE309156@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c2f821$3e340140$1900a8c0@andy>

Dan Costea,

Thank You, for a light.
Your script is work, and my problem sovled :)

Thanks,

andy

> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:21:34 +0300
> From: "Dan Costea" <costea.dan at ssi-schaefer.ro>
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] window confirmation
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Message-ID: <003a01c2f74d$c7ae0c10$dfdea8c0 at pcdco>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> > Hai,
> >
> > when i try to close parent window (default IE)  i get window
confirmation.
> > How to close window parent without get window confirmation ?
> >
> > ps : IE 6
> >
>
> This question was disscussed before. So, here are the conclusions (works
on
> IE6 too):
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Costea" <costea.dan at ssi-schaefer.ro>
> To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Silent window.close... or a better idea
>
>
> > I had exactly the same problem few months ago :o)
> > Because of the security reasons, you cannot close a window without
> > confirmation, if you didn't open that window with your js. But if you
> really
> > have no choice, you must lie the IE, by telling it that you opened that
> > window you want to close! Here is the code:
> >
> > function cheatCloseWin ()
> > {
> >  win = top;
> >
> >  // lying:
> >  win.opener = top;
> >
> >  win.close ();
> > }
> >
> > Dan.
> >



From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 08:13:11 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:13:11 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ? Need help on frame ?
References: <F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com>
	<OE30LIuyR5ZYpiM6Ug50000a1b4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E899E6E.C7E165C4@gazos.com>

This reads like the script from the old Abbott & Costello gag "Who's on First?".

I suspect I'll need both a directory map and a diagram of how your frames are
linked together in order to visualize the exact nature of your problem.  The
way I interpret your remarks is as follows:

  DIRECTORY STRUCTURE:

	.\someDirectory
		index.html
		musicindex.mid (?)
		.\childDirectory
			contentA.html
			frameA.html
			musicA.html

  CODE STRUCTURE:

	index.html  	--> <A HREF=".\childDirectory\frameA.html>myLinkA</A>
			    	--> <OBJECT name='musicindex' id='musicindex' data='musicindex.mid' ...
						 <PARAM name='paramA' ...

    frameA.html 	--> <FRAMESET rows="50%,50%">
						 <FRAME SRC="contentA.html">
                     	 <FRAME SRC="musicA.html">
                    	</FRAMESET>

	contentA.html 	--> <button name='top' onClick='location.href="index.html"' value='top'> (???)

    I'm a little unclear as to what the button 'top' in contentA.html actually does: "goes back to
 	index.html" is a little vague (and creates an endless-mirrors situation).  Does it simply force
	a reload of index.html?  Does it try to load index.html into the frame in which contentA.html
  	formerly resided?  Anything is possible, and only a fraction of it will work.

    Get back to me with some code snippets, etc., and try to elaborate some more on the gory bits.
    In general, any object in a multiframe environment can access any other object in a multiframe
	environment by some variation of the following:

		var myObjectInFrameB = document.frames["frameB"].document.objectName

	If the object(s) are inside a form within the frame, it is slightly more complicated:

							   document.frames["frameB"].document.forms["theForm"].objectName

	... and then of course, you can tweak the attributes of the object using the appropriate ".extension"
	format.

	In general, if you are within the HTML code within one of the child frames and you want to access code
	in another child frame, you need to dereference to the "parent" frame (which actually is a frameset,
	but who's counting)...
								parent.frames["frameB"].document.forms["theForm"].objectName

	A shorthand notation for this is

								parent.frameB.document.forms["theForm"].objectName

	I think you want to mess with the selection of the midi File in the original index.html file (outside
	the frames heirarchy), which would be done via window.opener, using the model shown above:

								window.opener.document.getElementById("musicindex").data = 'myMusic.mid'

	... or something very similar, depending on how imprecise my imaginings are.

  -- Dave Lovering
		

light_wt wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have more or less a redirect problem using frame in html code.  I wonder
> if there is a clean solution using javascript.
> 
> In html, I have these files:
> index.html (with background musicindex.mid),
> frameA.html,
> musicA.html, and
> contentA.html.
> 
> >From a link in index.html, it will launch frameA.html with musicA.html and
> contentA.html.
> 
> Inside of the contentA.html, there are the previous, top, and next buttons.
> As the musicA.html is playing along, clicking  the top button goes back to
> the index.html using <A href="../index.htm" >.
> 
> The problem is when displaying index.html.  The index.html is being display
> as part of the frame from frameA.html.  Therefore, it is still playing the
> musicA.html from the frameA, rather than playing the musicindex.mid.
> 
> What should I do to make the top button link in contentA.html to play the
> background muisic of  index.html?
> 
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 08:23:58 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:23:58 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com>
	<007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <3E89A0F4.D6F846CC@gazos.com>


In general, when moving something it is embedded in a layer, and each layer is
moved independently.  The trick required for the earlier problem is to embed the
apparent contents of the entire window in a layer (an oxymoron of course), and
move this about inside the physical screen boundaries attached to your "real" window.

The most gruesome part (for either Netscape or IE) is to build the eventHandler
routines for the mouseDown, mouseUp, and drag events, and tie them to incremental
offset changes made to the position of the layer's reference corner.  To avoid
overflowing the eventHandler cache, you have to 'debounce' the mouse movements
by polling the mouse position every 50 to 100 msec or so (using setTimeout), but
only during the 'drag' stage of the mouse transit.

Of course, knowing the vague mechanics of something and having the working code
in your hand are two different things.

-- Dave Lovering

Andrew Gibson wrote:
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less practical
> than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page, recording
> the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important for me,
> very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> I've certainly been able to drag elements across the page witha script, at
> least in IE 5+ but I've never been able to get it slickly working in
> Netscape. I can mimic the window/outlook interface of dragging things around
> the screen, but its only effective for small images and text I've found. I
> tried doing it with a form once, but found half the form couldn't keep up
> with the drag!
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew Gibson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr  1 14:26:02 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:26:02 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8>
	<3E89A0F4.D6F846CC@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c2f88c$eb289350$10e8adcb@k1n8i8>

>>>>>>
The most gruesome part (for either Netscape or IE) is to build the
eventHandler
routines for the mouseDown, mouseUp, and drag events, and tie them to
incremental
offset changes made to the position of the layer's reference corner.  To
avoid
overflowing the eventHandler cache, you have to 'debounce' the mouse
movements
by polling the mouse position every 50 to 100 msec or so (using setTimeout),
but
only during the 'drag' stage of the mouse transit.
>>>>>>

I just used the onmousemove event and then had the script calculate the
mouse position using
window.event.clientX  and window.event.clientY then move the element during
the move. But at the start when you move the element the cursor jumps to the
corner of the element, so you have to do an initial offset calculation to
fix that.

As David says, there are further tricky bits like identifying when to stop
the drag, where to drop the item etc etc.

I think theres a sample here on my site

www.dscript.net.nz

then select display, dragging

But couldn't get it working smoothly in NS , mind you that was a year or so
ago.

Andrew Gibson




From lshadoff at brazosport.cc.tx.us  Tue Apr  1 14:26:31 2003
From: lshadoff at brazosport.cc.tx.us (Lewis Shadoff)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 14:26:31 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Javascript Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20030401180003.3BD85308E54@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1>

Netscape has developed a cross-browser DHTML API named xbStyle:

<http://devedge.netscape.com/toolbox/examples/2002/xb/xbStyle/>

which is described as:

"xbStyle is an JavaScript Object that is used to expose the style 
properties of an Element in a cross browser fashion. Netscape Navigator 
4.x, Gecko based browsers such as Netscape 6.x, Internet Explorer 4+ and 
Opera 5+ are supported. "

Using this you can set the "top" and "left" locations of any positioned 
object in the above browsers dynamically in order to make them appear to move.

Lew

At 12:00 PM 4/1/2003, Andrew Gibson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less practical
>than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
>positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page, recording
>the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important for me,
>very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>I've certainly been able to drag elements across the page witha script, at
>least in IE 5+ but I've never been able to get it slickly working in
>Netscape. I can mimic the window/outlook interface of dragging things around
>the screen, but its only effective for small images and text I've found. I
>tried doing it with a form once, but found half the form couldn't keep up
>with the drag!







Lewis A. Shadoff, Ph.D.
Brazosport College
Lake Jackson, TX



From light_wt at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 16:19:42 2003
From: light_wt at hotmail.com (light_wt)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:19:42 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] ? Need help on frame ?
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><OE30LIuyR5ZYpiM6Ug50000a1b4@hotmail.com>
	<3E899E6E.C7E165C4@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <OE38aPr1IyeDyW99TqC000084e8@hotmail.com>

David,

Good job.  Your guess is very close.   After reading your suggestions, I
think I am closer to my problem.  I spent a little time to put the code into
my homepage http://light_wt.tripod.com.

When you click on the Friends and Families, it will bring you to another
page.  To speed up the process, large jpegs are not there.  You will see
only a red x.  :)  In this page, it will play a different tune then the
embedded bnb.mid in http://light_wt.tripod.com/index.htm.  In this page,
http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/ff.frame.htm, there are two frames.  One on
top is http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/music.htm with about 1% visible. :)
The bottom with the arrows are is what I was referring as contentA.htm.  It
is actually a series of htmls in the folder
http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/pages/jr0*.htm.

Once you click on the top arrow, it will go back to the
http://light_wt.tripod.com/index.htm.  However, the address (or Goto) field
will still show http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/ff.frame.htm.  As a result, it
is still playing the file from the frame music.htm.  What is needed is when
the index.html is show then the embedded file will be displayed.

I guess I have dig myself a hole. :)  I just realized if I go from
http://light_wt.tripod.com/ to http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/ff.frame.htm by
clicking the button Friends and Family
and click on the top button back to
http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/ff.frame.htm
>From there, click the Grand Tour.  The music will still be playing the
http://light_wt.tripod.com/ff/ff.frame.htm, rather than
http://light_wt.tripod.com/grand/gr.frame.htm

My intend is anytime going to index.html will its embeded mid.  Clicking on
the buttons from the index.html will go to the subsection and plays its own
theme mid.  Frame is probably not what I wanted.

Thanks in advance.

From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 16:44:43 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8><3E89A0F4.D6F846CC@gazos.com>
	<000f01c2f88c$eb289350$10e8adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <005f01c2f8a0$4a152230$0500000a@arcana>


Pardon me for being a dummy, but where on your site do the coding examples
you cite actually live?

[P.S:  I don't believe in "API Development Tools" either.  Every one I've
ever seen is riddled with bugs and incompatibilities, and the learning curve
is so steep you never catch up with what the "contemporary" package looks
like.  I'm from the OLD days, when men were men, and sheep ran scared, and
programming required chipping the 1's and 0's out of granite with your bare
hands.]

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements


> >>>>>>
> The most gruesome part (for either Netscape or IE) is to build the
> eventHandler
> routines for the mouseDown, mouseUp, and drag events, and tie them to
> incremental
> offset changes made to the position of the layer's reference corner.  To
> avoid
> overflowing the eventHandler cache, you have to 'debounce' the mouse
> movements
> by polling the mouse position every 50 to 100 msec or so (using
setTimeout),
> but
> only during the 'drag' stage of the mouse transit.
> >>>>>>
>
> I just used the onmousemove event and then had the script calculate the
> mouse position using
> window.event.clientX  and window.event.clientY then move the element
during
> the move. But at the start when you move the element the cursor jumps to
the
> corner of the element, so you have to do an initial offset calculation to
> fix that.
>
> As David says, there are further tricky bits like identifying when to stop
> the drag, where to drop the item etc etc.
>
> I think theres a sample here on my site
>
> www.dscript.net.nz
>
> then select display, dragging
>
> But couldn't get it working smoothly in NS , mind you that was a year or
so
> ago.
>
> Andrew Gibson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From t.mattiozzi at auckland.ac.nz  Tue Apr  1 16:49:44 2003
From: t.mattiozzi at auckland.ac.nz (Teo Petralia)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:49:44 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] I can't see a shock movie
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>

Hi to all!
I wanted to see a shockwave movie but I cannot see it. Is strange, it 
works with IE and Netscape on a Mecaintosh, it works also with 
Netscape on a PC but doesn't work with IE on the PC.

Does anyone has a clue what's wrong?

Thanks in advance for any help

Teo

From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr  1 16:57:21 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:57:21 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><007301c2f816$702b4c90$3ae8adcb@k1n8i8><3E89A0F4.D6F846CC@gazos.com><000f01c2f88c$eb289350$10e8adcb@k1n8i8>
	<005f01c2f8a0$4a152230$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <000e01c2f8a2$0e2855b0$9ce7adcb@k1n8i8>

====================================
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements

Pardon me for being a dummy, but where on your site do the coding examples
you cite actually live?
====================================
Right here, but they're not coding samples, just demos of the code....but
anyone can do a view source for   the code, and you have to view in ie6 for
the dragging example

> www.dscript.net.nz
>
> then select display, dragging
then click example, and drag the image

=====================================================================
[P.S:  I don't believe in "API Development Tools" either.  Every one I've
ever seen is riddled with bugs and incompatibilities, and the learning curve
is so steep you never catch up with what the "contemporary" package looks
like.  I'm from the OLD days, when men were men, and sheep ran scared, and
programming required chipping the 1's and 0's out of granite with your bare
hands.]
==============================
Not even sure what API dev tools are to be honest, with regards to jscript,
but if you mean programs like dreamweaver to create code, I agree.....in
fact I've never even used anyone elses code without some major rejigging for
my own uses.

Cheers
Andrew Gibson




From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 19:00:00 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:00:00 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] I can't see a shock movie
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1>
	<v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
Message-ID: <006001c2f8b3$2ff2a220$0500000a@arcana>

AHA!  I think I know what the problem is. [I've been burned by this myself].

I believe you need to install a Shockwave Plug-in, or should one already be
in place, update it to a more current one.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Teo Petralia" <t.mattiozzi at auckland.ac.nz>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: [Javascript] I can't see a shock movie


> Hi to all!
> I wanted to see a shockwave movie but I cannot see it. Is strange, it
> works with IE and Netscape on a Mecaintosh, it works also with
> Netscape on a PC but doesn't work with IE on the PC.
>
> Does anyone has a clue what's wrong?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> Teo
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From lau at goldenweb.com.au  Tue Apr  1 19:46:19 2003
From: lau at goldenweb.com.au (Lau@goldenweb.com.au)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:46:19 +1000
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: 	<5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
	<006001c2f8b3$2ff2a220$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>

Hi,

I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload). But
now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can put
an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.

Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive using
javascript? If not what other methods are available?

Thanks in advance
Lau




From nealweb at telusplanet.net  Tue Apr  1 19:53:42 2003
From: nealweb at telusplanet.net (Craig Neal)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:53:42 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: 	<5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]><006001c2f8b3$2ff2a220$0500000a@arcana>
	<00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
Message-ID: <002001c2f8ba$b0b2ab60$6fe9ad8e@Telus>

Why check it on the client side? Most FileUpload components have a method to
check the file size anyway and you can not save it if the file exceeds the
file size limit that you select.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lau at goldenweb.com.au" <lau at goldenweb.com.au>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:46 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size


> Hi,
>
> I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload).
But
> now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can
put
> an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
>
> Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive
using
> javascript? If not what other methods are available?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Lau
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 20:33:35 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 19:33:35 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
	<00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
Message-ID: <3E8A4B8F.264FCED0@gazos.com>


Dear Lau:

  There is no way to read the file length passively without opening it, insofar
as I know.  However, it is easy to find the length ONCE you've opened it for
reading:

	var myFile = new File("c:\temp\myfile.txt");
    myFile.open("r");
    alert('myFile length: ' + myFile.getLength());

  This should work well, and you can always close the file immediately thereafter.

  -- Dave Lovering

"Lau at goldenweb.com.au" wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload). But
> now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can put
> an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
> 
> Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive using
> javascript? If not what other methods are available?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Lau
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From lau at goldenweb.com.au  Tue Apr  1 20:53:26 2003
From: lau at goldenweb.com.au (Lau@goldenweb.com.au)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:53:26 +1000
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: 	<5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]><006001c2f8b3$2ff2a220$0500000a@arcana><00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
	<002001c2f8ba$b0b2ab60$6fe9ad8e@Telus>
Message-ID: <001f01c2f8c3$0899bf00$6500a8c0@laubox>

I'm getting charged for upload bandwidth so I want to stop the user
uploading a 10gig file. If I do it on the server its too late - I've already
been charged.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Neal" <nealweb at telusplanet.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Checking local file size


> Why check it on the client side? Most FileUpload components have a method
to
> check the file size anyway and you can not save it if the file exceeds the
> file size limit that you select.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lau at goldenweb.com.au" <lau at goldenweb.com.au>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:46 PM
> Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload).
> But
> > now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can
> put
> > an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
> >
> > Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive
> using
> > javascript? If not what other methods are available?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Lau
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From lau at goldenweb.com.au  Tue Apr  1 20:56:47 2003
From: lau at goldenweb.com.au (Lau@goldenweb.com.au)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:56:47 +1000
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: 	<5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]><00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
	<3E8A4B8F.264FCED0@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <002501c2f8c3$80788b50$6500a8c0@laubox>

I tried your code but I keep getting "Error:File is undefined".

Isn't there something about it having to be a signed script or something?
Otherwise I could read every file on a clients machine when they came to my
site which I don't think should be allowed.

Peace
Lau



----- Original Message -----
From: "David T. Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Checking local file size


>
> Dear Lau:
>
>   There is no way to read the file length passively without opening it,
insofar
> as I know.  However, it is easy to find the length ONCE you've opened it
for
> reading:
>
> var myFile = new File("c:\temp\myfile.txt");
>     myFile.open("r");
>     alert('myFile length: ' + myFile.getLength());
>
>   This should work well, and you can always close the file immediately
thereafter.
>
>   -- Dave Lovering
>
> "Lau at goldenweb.com.au" wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload).
But
> > now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can
put
> > an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
> >
> > Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive
using
> > javascript? If not what other methods are available?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Lau
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 21:38:32 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 20:38:32 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]><006001c2f8b3$2ff2a220$0500000a@arcana><00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
	<001f01c2f8c3$0899bf00$6500a8c0@laubox>
Message-ID: <3E8A5ABF.DABBCAD7@gazos.com>


The method I described works on the client side.

-- Dave

"Lau at goldenweb.com.au" wrote:
> 
> I'm getting charged for upload bandwidth so I want to stop the user
> uploading a 10gig file. If I do it on the server its too late - I've already
> been charged.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Neal" <nealweb at telusplanet.net>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Checking local file size
> 
> > Why check it on the client side? Most FileUpload components have a method
> to
> > check the file size anyway and you can not save it if the file exceeds the
> > file size limit that you select.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lau at goldenweb.com.au" <lau at goldenweb.com.au>
> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:46 PM
> > Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload).
> > But
> > > now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can
> > put
> > > an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
> > >
> > > Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive
> > using
> > > javascript? If not what other methods are available?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Lau
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  1 21:39:58 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 20:39:58 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Checking local file size
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]><00fc01c2f8b9$a997c7d0$6500a8c0@laubox>
	<002501c2f8c3$80788b50$6500a8c0@laubox>
Message-ID: <3E8A5B15.417D89F7@gazos.com>


Yes, it is supposed to be signed -- but most fileUpload procedures are built
(albeit loosely) on signed scripts.  Try signing it, and exciting things 
should happen.

-- Dave

"Lau at goldenweb.com.au" wrote:
> 
> I tried your code but I keep getting "Error:File is undefined".
> 
> Isn't there something about it having to be a signed script or something?
> Otherwise I could read every file on a clients machine when they came to my
> site which I don't think should be allowed.
> 
> Peace
> Lau
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David T. Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Checking local file size
> 
> >
> > Dear Lau:
> >
> >   There is no way to read the file length passively without opening it,
> insofar
> > as I know.  However, it is easy to find the length ONCE you've opened it
> for
> > reading:
> >
> > var myFile = new File("c:\temp\myfile.txt");
> >     myFile.open("r");
> >     alert('myFile length: ' + myFile.getLength());
> >
> >   This should work well, and you can always close the file immediately
> thereafter.
> >
> >   -- Dave Lovering
> >
> > "Lau at goldenweb.com.au" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have an ASP program that lets a user upload a file (using ASPUpload).
> But
> > > now I want to check the size of the file before they upload it so I can
> put
> > > an upper limit on the size of files they can upload.
> > >
> > > Is there a way I can check the size of a file on the users local drive
> using
> > > javascript? If not what other methods are available?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Lau
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dev at qroute.net  Fri Apr  4 11:59:58 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:59:58 -0800
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
	htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
References: <F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com>
	<000d01c2f801$aab17ed0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <003101c2fad4$01715310$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago. I think
it is worth sharing with you.

But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial goal. It
is a creative way and it might just work.
Here are the steps for those who are interested;


Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show up on
the client screen.

Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border iframe ).
Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is true or
false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying say
10rps.

How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true  ) in
the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business is to
let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that "the
iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of doing
this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can query an
iframe window to see when it completes its loading.

Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a procedure
and terminates itself.
The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.

Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to be done
by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and document.writes
!...

Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes place,
you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the middle of
your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on the
client.

With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect and
without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.





----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled


> The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
achieved
> by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute changes
> tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
> 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory) by
> window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the mouse-drag
> events.
>
> The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
geometry
> on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly 50ms).
>
> However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be able to
> hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close enough
to
> being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
> To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
> contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>
>
> > Thanks David,
> > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill tonight.
> > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a huge
> > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
> > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
> >
> > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
> practical
> > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page,
> recording
> > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important for
me,
> > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> >
> > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
> >
> > Looking forward in reading from you.
> >
> >                                       Regards, Bekim.
> >
> >
> > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
> > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
> > >
> > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with D-sized
> > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was comparatively
> nasty,
> > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were needed.
> > >
> > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how to do
it
> > >before the product ever existed.
> > >
> > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the issue in
> > >depth.
> > >
> > >-- Dave Lovering
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr  4 13:10:10 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:10:10 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative way to pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare
	pulled
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><000d01c2f801$aab17ed0$0500000a@arcana>
	<003101c2fad4$01715310$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <000601c2fadd$d0ae3770$0500000a@arcana>

  I think your idea has a lot of merit, but I'd like to add one caveat --

  I've tried setting a bogus variable at the bottom of a load for an HTML
document and using it as a flag to tell whether the window is fully "built".
I'm here to tell you it doesn't work -- at least not reliably, and not 100%
of the time.

  The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes) a
multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little boxes
with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them gets
put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the little x
bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were acting
for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built a
lot sooner than you anticipate.

  The method I'm exploring (as an adjunct to your excellent idea of using an
IFRAME wrapper) is to use a "document.watch()" call, with the appropriate
event used as a trigger within the watch.  The designated event handler will
kick in, and the necessary action occur AT THE DOCUMENT LEVEL, rather than
as a consequence of a single changed variable field.  Sort of like an
'onLoad' event, but rather one that works AFTER the build, rather than at
the start.  (onLoad is awfully nebulous -- it doesn't really kick in after
the load is complete, and it doesn't really kick in at the very earliest
beginning before any objects are on the page.  In short, it is dangerous to
rely on onLoad.)  I think if I can build an event trap handler around the
right event [and there are literally hundreds of them] this might actually
work pretty well.

  One rather crude method is to write the file that goes into the
zero-dimensioned IFRAME window with some kind of loop that does a
document.close() once the last line is in place.  The document.close() is
one thing I know I can pick up on with a 'watch()' handler.

  Anyway, I'm still in the preliminary research stage on this.

  -- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled


> How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago. I
think
> it is worth sharing with you.
>
> But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial goal.
It
> is a creative way and it might just work.
> Here are the steps for those who are interested;
>
>
> Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
> myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
> And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show up on
> the client screen.
>
> Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border
iframe ).
> Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is true
or
> false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying say
> 10rps.
>
> How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
> That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true  ) in
> the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business is to
> let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that "the
> iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of
doing
> this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can query
an
> iframe window to see when it completes its loading.
>
> Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a
procedure
> and terminates itself.
> The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.
>
> Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to be
done
> by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and
document.writes
> !...
>
> Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes place,
> you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the middle
of
> your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on the
> client.
>
> With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect and
> without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
> htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>
>
> > The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
> achieved
> > by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute
changes
> > tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
> > 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory) by
> > window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the
mouse-drag
> > events.
> >
> > The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
> geometry
> > on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly
50ms).
> >
> > However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be able
to
> > hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close enough
> to
> > being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
> >
> > -- Dave Lovering
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
> > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
> > contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> >
> >
> > > Thanks David,
> > > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill tonight.
> > > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a huge
> > > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
> > > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
> > >
> > > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
> > practical
> > > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> > > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page,
> > recording
> > > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important for
> me,
> > > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> > >
> > > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
> > >
> > > Looking forward in reading from you.
> > >
> > >                                       Regards, Bekim.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
> > > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
> > > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
> > > >
> > > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with
D-sized
> > > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was comparatively
> > nasty,
> > > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were
needed.
> > > >
> > > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how to
do
> it
> > > >before the product ever existed.
> > > >
> > > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the issue
in
> > > >depth.
> > > >
> > > >-- Dave Lovering
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From dev at qroute.net  Fri Apr  4 13:45:37 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:45:37 -0800
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative way to
	pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
References: 	<F52q0z5USv9OgTqj6d6000484c6@hotmail.com><000d01c2f801$aab17ed0$0500000a@arcana><003101c2fad4$01715310$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
	<000601c2fadd$d0ae3770$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <005c01c2fae2$c4277bb0$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes) a
> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
boxes
> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
gets
> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the little
x
> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
acting
> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built a
> lot sooner than you anticipate.


Yes, but I do not think that as an issue in practical life. All those place
holders are for the resource files such as images.
So, regardless of whether those resource references being fully downloaded
in the frame or not, the innerHTML value will never change. When the
innerHTML content is written into the main browser, images will be referred
as document .write ("<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>").
And the effect of this is that container window that gets the newly written
*<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>* call will now trigger itself to
request that resource file. If that file happens to be loaded in the
borderless frame already,  main browser will most likely to refer to the
cache copy.

With this in mind, I do not see it as a show stopper.

This new approach which we are experimenting in a conceptual method looks
quite promising for the future.
However there is one aspect of it that bothers me big time. And that is to
add that one bottom liner which needs to go in all the content.htm files. In
this regard, this is inferior to the functionality of the server.include. In
that technology, you do not change the source files a bit. !...

And how pity is that we have to go thru these timers and I_am_done variable
values just because the onLoad is not a reliable event. Very frustrating
indeed when you have a method that does NOT do what it is programmed to do.

I suggest or explore all avenues to find a reliable work around to this.
Don't you think so ?





----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled


>   I think your idea has a lot of merit, but I'd like to add one caveat --
>
>   I've tried setting a bogus variable at the bottom of a load for an HTML
> document and using it as a flag to tell whether the window is fully
"built".
> I'm here to tell you it doesn't work -- at least not reliably, and not
100%
> of the time.
>
>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes) a
> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
boxes
> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
gets
> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the little
x
> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
acting
> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built a
> lot sooner than you anticipate.
>
>   The method I'm exploring (as an adjunct to your excellent idea of using
an
> IFRAME wrapper) is to use a "document.watch()" call, with the appropriate
> event used as a trigger within the watch.  The designated event handler
will
> kick in, and the necessary action occur AT THE DOCUMENT LEVEL, rather than
> as a consequence of a single changed variable field.  Sort of like an
> 'onLoad' event, but rather one that works AFTER the build, rather than at
> the start.  (onLoad is awfully nebulous -- it doesn't really kick in after
> the load is complete, and it doesn't really kick in at the very earliest
> beginning before any objects are on the page.  In short, it is dangerous
to
> rely on onLoad.)  I think if I can build an event trap handler around the
> right event [and there are literally hundreds of them] this might actually
> work pretty well.
>
>   One rather crude method is to write the file that goes into the
> zero-dimensioned IFRAME window with some kind of loop that does a
> document.close() once the last line is in place.  The document.close() is
> one thing I know I can pick up on with a 'watch()' handler.
>
>   Anyway, I'm still in the preliminary research stage on this.
>
>   -- Dave Lovering
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>
>
> > How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago. I
> think
> > it is worth sharing with you.
> >
> > But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial
goal.
> It
> > is a creative way and it might just work.
> > Here are the steps for those who are interested;
> >
> >
> > Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
> > myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
> > And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show up
on
> > the client screen.
> >
> > Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border
> iframe ).
> > Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is true
> or
> > false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying
say
> > 10rps.
> >
> > How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
> > That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true  )
in
> > the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business is
to
> > let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that "the
> > iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of
> doing
> > this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can
query
> an
> > iframe window to see when it completes its loading.
> >
> > Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a
> procedure
> > and terminates itself.
> > The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.
> >
> > Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to be
> done
> > by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and
> document.writes
> > !...
> >
> > Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes
place,
> > you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the middle
> of
> > your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on the
> > client.
> >
> > With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect and
> > without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
> > htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> >
> >
> > > The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
> > achieved
> > > by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute
> changes
> > > tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
> > > 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory) by
> > > window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the
> mouse-drag
> > > events.
> > >
> > > The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
> > geometry
> > > on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly
> 50ms).
> > >
> > > However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be able
> to
> > > hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close
enough
> > to
> > > being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
> > >
> > > -- Dave Lovering
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
> > > contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks David,
> > > > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill
tonight.
> > > > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a
huge
> > > > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
> > > > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
> > > >
> > > > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
> > > practical
> > > > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> > > > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page,
> > > recording
> > > > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important
for
> > me,
> > > > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> > > >
> > > > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward in reading from you.
> > > >
> > > >                                       Regards, Bekim.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > > > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
> > > > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
> > > > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with
> D-sized
> > > > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was comparatively
> > > nasty,
> > > > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were
> needed.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how to
> do
> > it
> > > > >before the product ever existed.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the issue
> in
> > > > >depth.
> > > > >
> > > > >-- Dave Lovering
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Javascript mailing list
> > > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Fri Apr  4 15:53:40 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:53:40 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative way to
	pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
In-Reply-To: <fc.a630c9a6a630c9a6abde57293b9aca00.5cce9f@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCENEDCAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Write a wrapper for the downloaded page:

<iframe src='/IncludePackager.asp?File=FileToInclude.htm'>

Then have the IncludePackager.asp give you the contents of FileToInclude.htm
as well as your control variable

If you're using IIS5/ASP3, you could do this for the contents of
IncludePackager.asp
<%
Server.Execute( Request.QueryString("File") )
%>
<!-- #include virtual="/IFrameControlModule.htm" -->

Using this strategy, you could include the dynamic content of .ASP files
into your IFrame.


I have not worked with other servers or CGI strategies, so i have no idea if
there is an analog :(


-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:46 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled


>>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes) a
>> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
boxes
>> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
gets
>> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
>little
x
>> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
acting
>> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
>a
>> lot sooner than you anticipate.


Yes, but I do not think that as an issue in practical life. All those place
holders are for the resource files such as images.
So, regardless of whether those resource references being fully downloaded
in the frame or not, the innerHTML value will never change. When the
innerHTML content is written into the main browser, images will be referred
as document .write ("<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>").
And the effect of this is that container window that gets the newly written
*<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>* call will now trigger itself to
request that resource file. If that file happens to be loaded in the
borderless frame already,  main browser will most likely to refer to the
cache copy.

With this in mind, I do not see it as a show stopper.

This new approach which we are experimenting in a conceptual method looks
quite promising for the future.
However there is one aspect of it that bothers me big time. And that is to
add that one bottom liner which needs to go in all the content.htm files.
In
this regard, this is inferior to the functionality of the server.include.
In
that technology, you do not change the source files a bit. !...

And how pity is that we have to go thru these timers and I_am_done variable
values just because the onLoad is not a reliable event. Very frustrating
indeed when you have a method that does NOT do what it is programmed to do.

I suggest or explore all avenues to find a reliable work around to this.
Don't you think so ?





----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled


>>   I think your idea has a lot of merit, but I'd like to add one caveat
>--
>>
>>   I've tried setting a bogus variable at the bottom of a load for an
>HTML
>> document and using it as a flag to tell whether the window is fully
"built".
>> I'm here to tell you it doesn't work -- at least not reliably, and not
100%
>> of the time.
>>
>>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes) a
>> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
boxes
>> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
gets
>> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
>little
x
>> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
acting
>> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
>a
>> lot sooner than you anticipate.
>>
>>   The method I'm exploring (as an adjunct to your excellent idea of
>using
an
>> IFRAME wrapper) is to use a "document.watch()" call, with the
>appropriate
>> event used as a trigger within the watch.  The designated event handler
will
>> kick in, and the necessary action occur AT THE DOCUMENT LEVEL, rather
>than
>> as a consequence of a single changed variable field.  Sort of like an
>> 'onLoad' event, but rather one that works AFTER the build, rather than
>at
>> the start.  (onLoad is awfully nebulous -- it doesn't really kick in
>after
>> the load is complete, and it doesn't really kick in at the very earliest
>> beginning before any objects are on the page.  In short, it is dangerous
to
>> rely on onLoad.)  I think if I can build an event trap handler around
>the
>> right event [and there are literally hundreds of them] this might
>actually
>> work pretty well.
>>
>>   One rather crude method is to write the file that goes into the
>> zero-dimensioned IFRAME window with some kind of loop that does a
>> document.close() once the last line is in place.  The document.close()
>is
>> one thing I know I can pick up on with a 'watch()' handler.
>>
>>   Anyway, I'm still in the preliminary research stage on this.
>>
>>   -- Dave Lovering
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
>> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
>> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>>
>>
>> > How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago. I
>> think
>> > it is worth sharing with you.
>> >
>> > But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial
goal.
>> It
>> > is a creative way and it might just work.
>> > Here are the steps for those who are interested;
>> >
>> >
>> > Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
>> > myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
>> > And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show
>up
on
>> > the client screen.
>> >
>> > Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border
>> iframe ).
>> > Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is
>true
>> or
>> > false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying
say
>> > 10rps.
>> >
>> > How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
>> > That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true
>)
in
>> > the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business is
to
>> > let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that "the
>> > iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of

>> doing
>> > this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can
query
>> an
>> > iframe window to see when it completes its loading.
>> >
>> > Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a
>> procedure
>> > and terminates itself.
>> > The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.
>> >
>> > Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to
>be
>> done
>> > by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and
>> document.writes
>> > !...
>> >
>> > Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes
place,
>> > you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the
>middle
>> of
>> > your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on
>the
>> > client.
>> >
>> > With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect
>and
>> > without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
>> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
>> > htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>> >
>> >
>> > > The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
>> > achieved
>> > > by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute
>> changes
>> > > tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
>> > > 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory) by
>> > > window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the
>> mouse-drag
>> > > events.
>> > >
>> > > The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
>> > geometry
>> > > on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly
>> 50ms).
>> > >
>> > > However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be
>able
>> to
>> > > hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close
enough
>> > to
>> > > being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
>> > >
>> > > -- Dave Lovering
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
>> > > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>> > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
>> > > contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks David,
>> > > > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill
tonight.
>> > > > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a
huge
>> > > > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
>> > > > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
>> > > >
>> > > > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
>> > > practical
>> > > > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
>> > > > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the page,
>> > > recording
>> > > > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most important
for
>> > me,
>> > > > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
>> > > >
>> > > > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
>> > > >
>> > > > Looking forward in reading from you.
>> > > >
>> > > >                                       Regards, Bekim.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
>> > > > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>> > > > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>> > > > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
>> > > > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
>> > > > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with
>> D-sized
>> > > > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was
>comparatively
>> > > nasty,
>> > > > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were
>> needed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how
>to
>> do
>> > it
>> > > > >before the product ever existed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the
>issue
>> in
>> > > > >depth.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >-- Dave Lovering
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Javascript mailing list
>> > > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> > > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Javascript mailing list
>> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Javascript mailing list
>> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Javascript mailing list
>> Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dev at qroute.net  Fri Apr  4 16:51:18 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:51:18 -0800
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative way
	topullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCENEDCAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c2fafc$b451d680$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

Clever !.  You hit it right on the target.
I think we are on a roll here.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Any creative way
topullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled


> Write a wrapper for the downloaded page:
>
> <iframe src='/IncludePackager.asp?File=FileToInclude.htm'>
>
> Then have the IncludePackager.asp give you the contents of
FileToInclude.htm
> as well as your control variable
>
> If you're using IIS5/ASP3, you could do this for the contents of
> IncludePackager.asp
> <%
> Server.Execute( Request.QueryString("File") )
> %>
> <!-- #include virtual="/IFrameControlModule.htm" -->
>
> Using this strategy, you could include the dynamic content of .ASP files
> into your IFrame.
>
>
> I have not worked with other servers or CGI strategies, so i have no idea
if
> there is an analog :(
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:46 PM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
>
>
> >>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes)
a
> >> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
> boxes
> >> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
> gets
> >> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
> >little
> x
> >> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
> acting
> >> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
> >a
> >> lot sooner than you anticipate.
>
>
> Yes, but I do not think that as an issue in practical life. All those
place
> holders are for the resource files such as images.
> So, regardless of whether those resource references being fully downloaded
> in the frame or not, the innerHTML value will never change. When the
> innerHTML content is written into the main browser, images will be
referred
> as document .write ("<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>").
> And the effect of this is that container window that gets the newly
written
> *<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>* call will now trigger itself to
> request that resource file. If that file happens to be loaded in the
> borderless frame already,  main browser will most likely to refer to the
> cache copy.
>
> With this in mind, I do not see it as a show stopper.
>
> This new approach which we are experimenting in a conceptual method looks
> quite promising for the future.
> However there is one aspect of it that bothers me big time. And that is to
> add that one bottom liner which needs to go in all the content.htm files.
> In
> this regard, this is inferior to the functionality of the server.include.
> In
> that technology, you do not change the source files a bit. !...
>
> And how pity is that we have to go thru these timers and I_am_done
variable
> values just because the onLoad is not a reliable event. Very frustrating
> indeed when you have a method that does NOT do what it is programmed to
do.
>
> I suggest or explore all avenues to find a reliable work around to this.
> Don't you think so ?
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
>
>
> >>   I think your idea has a lot of merit, but I'd like to add one caveat
> >--
> >>
> >>   I've tried setting a bogus variable at the bottom of a load for an
> >HTML
> >> document and using it as a flag to tell whether the window is fully
> "built".
> >> I'm here to tell you it doesn't work -- at least not reliably, and not
> 100%
> >> of the time.
> >>
> >>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes)
a
> >> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
> boxes
> >> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
> gets
> >> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
> >little
> x
> >> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
> acting
> >> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
> >a
> >> lot sooner than you anticipate.
> >>
> >>   The method I'm exploring (as an adjunct to your excellent idea of
> >using
> an
> >> IFRAME wrapper) is to use a "document.watch()" call, with the
> >appropriate
> >> event used as a trigger within the watch.  The designated event handler
> will
> >> kick in, and the necessary action occur AT THE DOCUMENT LEVEL, rather
> >than
> >> as a consequence of a single changed variable field.  Sort of like an
> >> 'onLoad' event, but rather one that works AFTER the build, rather than
> >at
> >> the start.  (onLoad is awfully nebulous -- it doesn't really kick in
> >after
> >> the load is complete, and it doesn't really kick in at the very
earliest
> >> beginning before any objects are on the page.  In short, it is
dangerous
> to
> >> rely on onLoad.)  I think if I can build an event trap handler around
> >the
> >> right event [and there are literally hundreds of them] this might
> >actually
> >> work pretty well.
> >>
> >>   One rather crude method is to write the file that goes into the
> >> zero-dimensioned IFRAME window with some kind of loop that does a
> >> document.close() once the last line is in place.  The document.close()
> >is
> >> one thing I know I can pick up on with a 'watch()' handler.
> >>
> >>   Anyway, I'm still in the preliminary research stage on this.
> >>
> >>   -- Dave Lovering
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
> >> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> >> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> >>
> >>
> >> > How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago.
I
> >> think
> >> > it is worth sharing with you.
> >> >
> >> > But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial
> goal.
> >> It
> >> > is a creative way and it might just work.
> >> > Here are the steps for those who are interested;
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
> >> > myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
> >> > And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show
> >up
> on
> >> > the client screen.
> >> >
> >> > Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border
> >> iframe ).
> >> > Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is
> >true
> >> or
> >> > false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying
> say
> >> > 10rps.
> >> >
> >> > How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
> >> > That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true
> >)
> in
> >> > the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business
is
> to
> >> > let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that
"the
> >> > iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of
>
> >> doing
> >> > this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can
> query
> >> an
> >> > iframe window to see when it completes its loading.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a
> >> procedure
> >> > and terminates itself.
> >> > The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.
> >> >
> >> > Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to
> >be
> >> done
> >> > by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and
> >> document.writes
> >> > !...
> >> >
> >> > Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes
> place,
> >> > you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the
> >middle
> >> of
> >> > your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on
> >the
> >> > client.
> >> >
> >> > With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect
> >and
> >> > without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> >> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
> >> > htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
> >> > achieved
> >> > > by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute
> >> changes
> >> > > tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
> >> > > 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory)
by
> >> > > window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the
> >> mouse-drag
> >> > > events.
> >> > >
> >> > > The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
> >> > geometry
> >> > > on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly
> >> 50ms).
> >> > >
> >> > > However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be
> >able
> >> to
> >> > > hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close
> enough
> >> > to
> >> > > being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
> >> > >
> >> > > -- Dave Lovering
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
> >> > > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >> > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
> >> > > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
> >> > > contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Thanks David,
> >> > > > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill
> tonight.
> >> > > > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a
> huge
> >> > > > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
> >> > > > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
> >> > > practical
> >> > > > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> >> > > > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the
page,
> >> > > recording
> >> > > > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most
important
> for
> >> > me,
> >> > > > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Looking forward in reading from you.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >                                       Regards, Bekim.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> >> > > > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >> > > > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >> > > > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
> >> > > > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
> >> > > > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with
> >> D-sized
> >> > > > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was
> >comparatively
> >> > > nasty,
> >> > > > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were
> >> needed.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how
> >to
> >> do
> >> > it
> >> > > > >before the product ever existed.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the
> >issue
> >> in
> >> > > > >depth.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >-- Dave Lovering
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> >> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >> > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > Javascript mailing list
> >> > > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> > > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Javascript mailing list
> >> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Javascript mailing list
> >> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Javascript mailing list
> >> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr  4 23:25:20 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 22:25:20 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Any creative 
 waytopullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCENEDCAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
	<00d101c2fafc$b451d680$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <3E8E68BE.88E3BE0E@gazos.com>


Ah, but some of those 'place-holders' are for DIVs and the like which are sufficiently complex as to require a heaping-helping of time to paint (particularly if they have a lot of layers and dynamic code being fed from a remote database).  Not everything
that is "ugly" time-wise is an illustration, albeit a lot of them qualify.
Still on the hunt for a "real" end-of-loading event handle that works in both Netscape/Mozilla and IE.  Only another 986 more event descriptors to paw through...

-- Dave Lovering

DEV wrote:
> 
> Clever !.  You hit it right on the target.
> I think we are on a roll here.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
> To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Any creative way
> topullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
> 
> > Write a wrapper for the downloaded page:
> >
> > <iframe src='/IncludePackager.asp?File=FileToInclude.htm'>
> >
> > Then have the IncludePackager.asp give you the contents of
> FileToInclude.htm
> > as well as your control variable
> >
> > If you're using IIS5/ASP3, you could do this for the contents of
> > IncludePackager.asp
> > <%
> > Server.Execute( Request.QueryString("File") )
> > %>
> > <!-- #include virtual="/IFrameControlModule.htm" -->
> >
> > Using this strategy, you could include the dynamic content of .ASP files
> > into your IFrame.
> >
> >
> > I have not worked with other servers or CGI strategies, so i have no idea
> if
> > there is an analog :(
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:46 PM
> > To: javascript at latech.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> > pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
> >
> >
> > >>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes)
> a
> > >> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
> > boxes
> > >> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
> > gets
> > >> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
> > >little
> > x
> > >> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
> > acting
> > >> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
> > >a
> > >> lot sooner than you anticipate.
> >
> >
> > Yes, but I do not think that as an issue in practical life. All those
> place
> > holders are for the resource files such as images.
> > So, regardless of whether those resource references being fully downloaded
> > in the frame or not, the innerHTML value will never change. When the
> > innerHTML content is written into the main browser, images will be
> referred
> > as document .write ("<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>").
> > And the effect of this is that container window that gets the newly
> written
> > *<img src='thatHalfWayLoadedImage.jpg'>* call will now trigger itself to
> > request that resource file. If that file happens to be loaded in the
> > borderless frame already,  main browser will most likely to refer to the
> > cache copy.
> >
> > With this in mind, I do not see it as a show stopper.
> >
> > This new approach which we are experimenting in a conceptual method looks
> > quite promising for the future.
> > However there is one aspect of it that bothers me big time. And that is to
> > add that one bottom liner which needs to go in all the content.htm files.
> > In
> > this regard, this is inferior to the functionality of the server.include.
> > In
> > that technology, you do not change the source files a bit. !...
> >
> > And how pity is that we have to go thru these timers and I_am_done
> variable
> > values just because the onLoad is not a reliable event. Very frustrating
> > indeed when you have a method that does NOT do what it is programmed to
> do.
> >
> > I suggest or explore all avenues to find a reliable work around to this.
> > Don't you think so ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> > pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesarepulled
> >
> >
> > >>   I think your idea has a lot of merit, but I'd like to add one caveat
> > >--
> > >>
> > >>   I've tried setting a bogus variable at the bottom of a load for an
> > >HTML
> > >> document and using it as a flag to tell whether the window is fully
> > "built".
> > >> I'm here to tell you it doesn't work -- at least not reliably, and not
> > 100%
> > >> of the time.
> > >>
> > >>   The problem is that the HTML build is (for all intents and purposes)
> a
> > >> multi-threaded process.  Things will come up on your screen as little
> > boxes
> > >> with red-X's or "broken code" object icons, while the stuff below them
> > gets
> > >> put together.  Then, as the various elements complete loading, the
> > >little
> > x
> > >> bodes or broken-code icons will be replaced by the elements they were
> > acting
> > >> for as place holders.  Hence, your 'I_am_done' variable might get built
> > >a
> > >> lot sooner than you anticipate.
> > >>
> > >>   The method I'm exploring (as an adjunct to your excellent idea of
> > >using
> > an
> > >> IFRAME wrapper) is to use a "document.watch()" call, with the
> > >appropriate
> > >> event used as a trigger within the watch.  The designated event handler
> > will
> > >> kick in, and the necessary action occur AT THE DOCUMENT LEVEL, rather
> > >than
> > >> as a consequence of a single changed variable field.  Sort of like an
> > >> 'onLoad' event, but rather one that works AFTER the build, rather than
> > >at
> > >> the start.  (onLoad is awfully nebulous -- it doesn't really kick in
> > >after
> > >> the load is complete, and it doesn't really kick in at the very
> earliest
> > >> beginning before any objects are on the page.  In short, it is
> dangerous
> > to
> > >> rely on onLoad.)  I think if I can build an event trap handler around
> > >the
> > >> right event [and there are literally hundreds of them] this might
> > >actually
> > >> work pretty well.
> > >>
> > >>   One rather crude method is to write the file that goes into the
> > >> zero-dimensioned IFRAME window with some kind of loop that does a
> > >> document.close() once the last line is in place.  The document.close()
> > >is
> > >> one thing I know I can pick up on with a 'watch()' handler.
> > >>
> > >>   Anyway, I'm still in the preliminary research stage on this.
> > >>
> > >>   -- Dave Lovering
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
> > >> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:59 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to
> > >> pullhtmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > How about this idea that I posted in the ASP list a few minutes ago.
> I
> > >> think
> > >> > it is worth sharing with you.
> > >> >
> > >> > But I have just thought of a trick towards accomplishing my initial
> > goal.
> > >> It
> > >> > is a creative way and it might just work.
> > >> > Here are the steps for those who are interested;
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Have an iframe and ship your front page formatted htm content ( say
> > >> > myContent.htm ) from your server as is.
> > >> > And set the width and height of that iframe to 0 so it does not show
> > >up
> > on
> > >> > the client screen.
> > >> >
> > >> > Now, Set a JS timer on the main page ( which contains the 0 border
> > >> iframe ).
> > >> > Let that timer keep an eye on a variable value just to see if it is
> > >true
> > >> or
> > >> > false. Until it is seen as true,  keep on running that timer querying
> > say
> > >> > 10rps.
> > >> >
> > >> > How is that variable change its initial value from false to true ?
> > >> > That will be carried out by the last line ( parent.ThatVariable=true
> > >)
> > in
> > >> > the document in the iframe. The pure purpose in this whole business
> is
> > to
> > >> > let the parent ( the container document of the iframe ) know that
> "the
> > >> > iframe has loaded in its entirety"....  There could be better ways of
> >
> > >> doing
> > >> > this but this also does the job right. Maybe there is a way one can
> > query
> > >> an
> > >> > iframe window to see when it completes its loading.
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyway when the timer senses the fact that iframe is done, fires a
> > >> procedure
> > >> > and terminates itself.
> > >> > The procedure then takes over and uses the innerHTML method.
> > >> >
> > >> > Aha !.. Now the js routines has all the power to do what it needs to
> > >be
> > >> done
> > >> > by that innerHTML code. Do all sorts of replace strings and
> > >> document.writes
> > >> > !...
> > >> >
> > >> > Since the JS procedures runs before the browser page lays out takes
> > place,
> > >> > you will never run into the issues of scrollbars appearing in the
> > >middle
> > >> of
> > >> > your page, just because you wanted to do the include abstraction on
> > >the
> > >> > client.
> > >> >
> > >> > With that, one gets the iframe power without the scroll bars effect
> > >and
> > >> > without worrying about dhtml menu roll overs etc.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > >> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:49 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull
> > >> > htmlcontentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > The 'move-around-a-big-pane-just-like-Acrobat' window effect can be
> > >> > achieved
> > >> > > by using a rather complex interlinkage of window.offset attribute
> > >> changes
> > >> > > tied to the cursor 'pegging out' on the window boundaries.  The
> > >> > > 'hand-drag-the-whole-window' function can be achieved (in theory)
> by
> > >> > > window.moveTo and window.moveBy directives, again linked to the
> > >> mouse-drag
> > >> > > events.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The mechanics are somewhat brutal, as you have to update the screen
> > >> > geometry
> > >> > > on the same timescale as a keyboard/mouse-button debounce (roughly
> > >> 50ms).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > However, I'm ressurecting my memories of how to do it, and may be
> > >able
> > >> to
> > >> > > hack something together over the next few days.  It is just close
> > enough
> > >> > to
> > >> > > being impossible to interest me.  [I specialize in the impossible].
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -- Dave Lovering
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "BEKIM BACAJ" <trojani2000 at hotmail.com>
> > >> > > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >> > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:02 PM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html
> > >> > > contentsamewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Thanks David,
> > >> > > > I never heard about anything like DynApi's nor similar untill
> > tonight.
> > >> > > > As I browse the internet, I find out that DynApi is nothin but a
> > huge
> > >> > > > collection - library, of reusable scripts, and can't do anything
> > >> > > > particularly advanced, comparing to other hand witten scripts.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I will submit some scripts of my own, that one can find them less
> > >> > > practical
> > >> > > > than entertaining, something like making page elements absolutely
> > >> > > > positioned, after this becoming able to move them across the
> page,
> > >> > > recording
> > >> > > > the move, playing it back or backwards, and what is most
> important
> > for
> > >> > me,
> > >> > > > very short (few lines) and very fast executionable.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > At end, why write a script when one is ready to share it.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Looking forward in reading from you.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >                                       Regards, Bekim.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > >From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> > >> > > > >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >> > > > >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > >> > > > >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Any creative way to pull html content
> > >> > > > >samewayjsfilesare pulled
> > >> > > > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:31:59 -0700
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >I once had to do it for a CAD/CAM viewing tool that worked with
> > >> D-sized
> > >> > > > >drawings that were posted to the web.  ARGGH!  It was
> > >comparatively
> > >> > > nasty,
> > >> > > > >but I'll see what I can recall of the various tricks that were
> > >> needed.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >I don't believe DynApi is REALLY necessary, as I figured out how
> > >to
> > >> do
> > >> > it
> > >> > > > >before the product ever existed.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >I'll get back to the list once I've had a chance to study the
> > >issue
> > >> in
> > >> > > > >depth.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >-- Dave Lovering
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > >> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > > Javascript mailing list
> > >> > > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > >> > > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > Javascript mailing list
> > >> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > >> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Javascript mailing list
> > >> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > >> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Javascript mailing list
> > >> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > >> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From rer at datacompusa.com  Sat Apr  5 01:03:53 2003
From: rer at datacompusa.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Digest bloat
Message-ID: <C2CF42F8-6734-11D7-BE1F-000502455904@datacompusa.com>

Hi,

I usually don't whine, but, as a reader of the digest version of the 
list, I do have a request.  Please cut out useless parts of the message 
in your reply.  The last several digests have only had a few messages 
in them, each post having the _complete_ contents of the previous 5-7 
posts in the thread.  Bad signal-to-noise ratio.

Thanks!


From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Sat Apr  5 18:32:36 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:32:36 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Important that all read.
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030405182924.0278f130@mail.latech.edu>

I finally got Yahoo Groups to fix a 2 1/2 year problem.

On eGroups the JavaScript list was merely being "mirrored" there, people 
could not join the JavaScript list via eGroups, they could only view posts 
via a Web interface and also the archives. When Yahoo Groups bought 
eGroups, they, without asking me, changed things so that people could also 
"subscribe" via Yahoo, acted as if the list was being hosted by Yahoo. 
Giving the list a split personality, one side of which I no longer had any 
control over (could not help people unsubscribe, change list settings to 
reflect list settings on the other half, etc).

I finally (persistence paid off) got this corrected. I can now administer 
the list's Yahoo groups side.

Instead of having this split personality for the list, and the added 
complications to administering that causes, I am going to merge the
two halves together. I will be moving the Yahoo groups half to the LA Tech 
half. Another reason is that the archives on the Yahoo side is becoming 
smaller than the archives on the Tech server, the list reached it's archive 
limit on Yahoo some time ago and thus all the old messages were being 
automatically deleted.

This will mean that some members will receive "you are unsubscribed" 
messages followed by "welcome to the JavaScript list" messages. For those 
that have set their list setting to "no mail", unfortunately I will have to 
change that so that you will receive this message. Some nomail settings 
were the results of bounced messages, some maybe 1 or 2 1/2 years ago, 
during the time when I was unable to administer the Yahoo side of the list 
and so some people will have forgotten that they were on this list, my 
apologies for the sudden mail.

You can easily unsubscribe by going to:

https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

scroll down to the bottom to see the unsubscribe button. Put in your email 
address and on the next screen enter the password that was sent to you in 
your "welcome to the list" email. If you forget your password, that page 
will also have a way to have it sent to you.

I very much apologize for any inconveniences this may cause.

The Yahoo Groups side has been deleted.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Sat Apr  5 18:36:11 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:36:11 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] JavaScript List Unsubscirbe, Subscribe & Posting Info.
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030405183457.027a5bd8@mail.latech.edu>

If you wish to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit 
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript or send a message with 
the word `help' in it to the request address, 
javascript-request at LaTech.edu, for further instructions.

To send messages to the list send to: javascript at LaTech.edu (for 
yahoo/egroup members, please note this change).

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 129
PO Box 3179
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
-------------- next part --------------
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From mountaindragon at startrek.net  Sat Apr  5 22:39:38 2003
From: mountaindragon at startrek.net (David Merchant)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 22:39:38 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: MEA CULPA
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030405223700.01ec1ee8@pop.earthlink.net>

I deleted the email addresses that Yahoo! Groups said weren't good any more 
for my list on Yahoo! Groups, so I thought I had caught enough of the bad 
addresses to avoid a deluge of bounce messages. I was wrong. The bounces 
were supposed to only go to me. Again, I was wrong: some types end up 
getting to the list.

I am unsubbing the bad addresses as fast as I can.

2 1/2 years of pent up problems happening all at once. Thanks again, Yahoo! 
Groups.  I wish I could've gotten them to correct the problem earlier, but 
it didn't happen.

Sorry.

David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
PO Box 3179
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu/
c3.latech.edu/
catalyst.latech.edu/ 


From mountaindragon at startrek.net  Sun Apr  6 03:06:32 2003
From: mountaindragon at startrek.net (David Merchant)
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 03:06:32 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406014930.01f0ee80@pop.earthlink.net>

The list is on emergency moderation, all posts must be approved, this is to 
catch any other annoying bounces. Most of the bounces were because of 6 
address out of over 1,000 that sent bounces back to the list. Rest assured 
the number of bounced messages you got through the list was only a fraction 
of what I was deluded with.

To repeat: I deleted the email addresses that Yahoo! Groups said weren't 
good any more for the half of the list on Yahoo! Groups, so I thought I had 
caught enough of the bad addresses to avoid a deluge of bounce messages. I 
was wrong. The bounces were supposed to only go to me. Again, I was wrong: 
some types end up getting to the list.

I  unsubbed the bad six addresses, but am hesitant to trust that all is 
back to normal.

2 1/2 years of pent up problems happening all at once. Thanks again, Yahoo! 
Groups.  I wish I could've gotten them to correct the problem earlier, but 
it didn't happen.

For those that had signed up years ago to the list via eGroups or Yahoo 
Groups and had your account put to no mail by a period of bounces/problems 
with your email, or by yourself but have forgotten because two years have 
passed, I know you'll be surprised to see emails all of a sudden. There was 
no way for me to tell when addresses where disabled. Again, I was prevented 
by a mistake by Yahoo Groups from administering the Yahoo Groups side of 
the list (What is it about this list that others try to hijack it (whether 
on purpose or by accident?)), and it took over two years of constant 
attempts to get it finally corrected. If someone else had your email 
address then, or subscribed you without your knowledge back then, or you've 
forgotten about being subscribed and want to unsubscribe please visit
https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
and scroll down to the bottom to unsubscribe. If you have any problems, 
please email me.

Again, my apologies. I will put the list back to unmoderated as soon as 
possible.

David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
PO Box 3179
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu/
c3.latech.edu/
catalyst.latech.edu/ 


From cheryl at leo.scsl.state.sc.us  Mon Apr  7 07:44:10 2003
From: cheryl at leo.scsl.state.sc.us (Cheryl Kirkpatrick)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:44:10 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406014930.01f0ee80@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3E91729A.E35E8373@leo.scsl.state.sc.us>

David,
I  want to say thank you. This list has been a huge help to me and I appreciate
all your efforts to keep it available. Undoubtedly  you have had a difficult
weekend with the list and no one could blame you if you decided to just chunk
it. Just wanted you to know that someone appreciates your hard work!

Thanks,


--
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Web Administrator
South Carolina State Library
http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
Email: cheryl at leo.scsl.state.sc.us
Telephone: 803.734.5831



From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr  7 10:22:11 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:22:11 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
	<3E8A4B8F.264FCED0@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <3E91978C.840BB413@gazos.com>


A number of folks have been alluding to coding structures that require invoking routines across frames (parent/child, child/parent, peer/peer), including IFRAMEs.  One of the elements that seems to be missing from the standard documentation and the
JavaScript/JScript RFC's (including the W3C state model) is the fact that when invoking JavaScript one must consider the placement within the target frame as to how one addresses it.

For example, if we have two peer frames (frameA and frameB), each containing mycode1.html and mycode2.html respectively, and it is intended that mycode2.html invoke a JavaScript routine 'foobar()' which exists in a <script
language='JavaScript'>...</script> block in the header of mycode1.html, the following will NOT work:

  parent.document.frames["frameA"].document.foobar();

The reason is that the 'document' object in frameA's code module doesn't REALLY begin until it hits the <body> tag.  The correct procedure is therefore

  parent.document.frames["frameA"].foobar();

Similarly, if mycode1.html wants to invoke a javascript routine 'foobar2()' in the body of mycode2, the following SHOULD work:

  parent.document.frames["frameB"].document.foobar2();

The reason I say SHOULD is because some browsers follow the canonical but absurd belief that javascript modules should only be defined and/or src'd in the header block.  I've not had the time to test every rev of every browser out there, but I have seen
discrepancies in behavior related to this.

In fact, the whole premise that <head> and <body> serve as the preparation and display blocks of DHTML code is starting to erode, as JavaScript, ASP, PHP, etc. can mingle set-up and execution elements throughout the whole document.  Some folks prefer to
do their primary JavaScript coding AFTER the </html> tag with the naive but charming premise that the whole document has finished loading by that point!  [Don't you believe it -- DHTML behaves as though it were multi-threaded code!].

--------------

On a related subject, the erroneous assumption that onLoad correctly denotes the completion of the entire screen build can be easily tested by simply putting an onLoad='alert("done loading...")' declaration at the end of the <body> tag.  Unless you're
dealing with some incredibly wimpy window, the alert will come up ALWAYS with part of the screen still undefined.  All those objects which have yet to be painted (which may NOT be merely jpegs and the like, as certain-people-who-will-remain-nameless
suggested earlier) cannot be referenced by any code within the routine pointed to by the onLoad event.  In short, onLoad is broken.

I am given to understand that Netscape/Mozilla and perhaps Opera are nearly done fixing the code to properly handle this, but M$oft is still out in the weeds somewhere.

-- Dave Lovering

From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Mon Apr  7 16:58:30 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:58:30 -0400
Subject: [Javascript]  ADMIN: List Update & When List Will Go Back To
	Unmoderated
In-Reply-To: <fc.eea7c7e1eea7c7e1eea7c7e13b9aca00.5d3647@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMGECDDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Honestly, i was checking my email from home via a UVNC link.  I was pretty
sure it was the email server and my outlook client abusing each other.  I
was very happy to learn that I DIDN'T have to address a problem on our end.
:)  Considering that it happened and was fixed within hours, i don't think
anyone has a right to complain about it when they're getting something for
free.  Thanks for your efforts.


------------------
Thanks to the folks who sent me mature, civil and even supportive emails.
I
was pleasantly surprised to see that the positive emails outnumbered the
negative ones almost 3:1.  I believe in the importance of this list, I am
not doing this for money, and any time administering is out of my spare
time and so I never intend to cause grief for the members, or to
forcibly/secretively sign up people to the list (what would that gain for
me? I get no money from having new members, and a larger list means more
of
my spare time to administer).



From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Mon Apr  7 17:27:55 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:27:55 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] 
	ADMIN: List Update & When List Will Go Back To Unmoderated
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030407110328.0255a560@mail.latech.edu>

A short recap and some new information:

Over 2 years ago when eGroups (which was just archiving JavaScript list 
postings) was bought out by Yahoo! Groups, Yahoo, _without my permission_, 
basically usurped the list, made it appear that it was being hosted by 
Yahoo/eGroups. Yahoo also did not give me any access to my own list on the 
Yahoo side. So if any of the 900+ members of the JavaScript list that were 
on the Yahoo side of the list had any problems with their list membership, 
I could never be of help to them.

I repeatedly tried to get Yahoo to fix the situation. Finally I got someone 
to respond last week. They gave me access to the usurped side of the list. 
However, they now turned it back to mirroring and so all the people that 
had signed up to the list and were able to post via the Yahoo side (which 
was forwarding their posts to the real list address), were no longer able 
to post to the list. There was no way for me to send out a post to them to 
let them know what was happening (yes, I tried). I unsubscribed those that 
looked to have their membership disabled because of too many bounces. And 
then merged the two membership halves together. And then deleted the Yahoo 
side (since the older parts of the archives were being deleted by Yahoo 
anyway as the archives on Yahoo has a 64 MB limit, thus the archives of the 
list on its real home server contained more posts now).

Two problems occurred:

1) there were 6 bad addresses that just bounced and bounced and kept on 
bouncing like some perpetual ping pong machine. I got over 2,000 bounced 
messages. Took me forever to get through those (I needed to check as many 
as possible to make sure I was catching all the bad addresses causing the 
problem so I could unsubscribe them). My apologies for that. I figured 
there'd be some bounces, but not 2,000. Why those 6 bad addresses didn't 
have a bad bounce history on Yahoo! Groups is beyond me.

2) Unfortunately, since I was unable to access the usurped side for over 
two years, some folk had set their accounts to nomail and they forgot about 
the list, or at the company they worked at they were given the email 
address of a previous worker (a few companies do that, believe it or no) 
who had signed up to the list unbeknownst to the new owner of the email 
address, or maybe someone else signed them up without their knowing. My 
apologies to those people.

This email I'm sending out will be a test. The list is on emergency 
moderation so all bounces to the list should be blocked from getting to the 
list and just pile up in my box only.

If there is no problems, I will be putting the list back to unmoderated 
tomorrow morning and will monitor it constantly throughout the day.

On top of this all, LA Tech has upgraded the list serv software, and I'm 
working on learning the new features and functions and settings.

Thanks to the folks who sent me mature, civil and even supportive emails. I 
was pleasantly surprised to see that the positive emails outnumbered the 
negative ones almost 3:1.  I believe in the importance of this list, I am 
not doing this for money, and any time administering is out of my spare 
time and so I never intend to cause grief for the members, or to 
forcibly/secretively sign up people to the list (what would that gain for 
me? I get no money from having new members, and a larger list means more of 
my spare time to administer).

For the others who were very hateful and juvenile in their emails to me, 
sometimes despite all good efforts, bad stuff happens in life. The list 
will stand back up from this trip, and be the useful and important resource 
to JavaScripters that it has been for these many years. I now can help all 
members of the list, and not just half of them, and I've learned even more 
about list administration and so you've gotten an even more experienced 
list administrator because of all this.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From kilroy at lewiscounty.com  Mon Apr  7 18:30:27 2003
From: kilroy at lewiscounty.com (Kilroy)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:30:27 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406014930.01f0ee80@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <004101c2fd5d$acc20ee0$0100a8c0@frodo>

Dave,

I've been a mostly lurker on this list for hmm.. a couple of years anyway.

Just wanted to thank you for your patience and quick response to this yahoo
emails snafu, not to even mention all the extra work I know this list has
been at times for  you.

I just wanted to reaffirm the positives about the list that  you mentioned
and to add that IMO  you've been doing a first rate job and also,  to thank
you for all  the work you do, managing the list.

Cheers

Jim Hudson


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Merchant" <mountaindragon at startrek.net>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation


> The list is on emergency moderation, all posts must be approved, this is
to
> catch any other annoying bounces. Most of the bounces were because of 6
> address out of over 1,000 that sent bounces back to the list. Rest assured
> the number of bounced messages you got through the list was only a
fraction
> of what I was deluded with.
>
> To repeat: I deleted the email addresses that Yahoo! Groups said weren't
> good any more for the half of the list on Yahoo! Groups, so I thought I
had
> caught enough of the bad addresses to avoid a deluge of bounce messages. I
> was wrong. The bounces were supposed to only go to me. Again, I was wrong:
> some types end up getting to the list.
>
> I  unsubbed the bad six addresses, but am hesitant to trust that all is
> back to normal.
>
> 2 1/2 years of pent up problems happening all at once. Thanks again,
Yahoo!
> Groups.  I wish I could've gotten them to correct the problem earlier, but
> it didn't happen.
>
> For those that had signed up years ago to the list via eGroups or Yahoo
> Groups and had your account put to no mail by a period of bounces/problems
> with your email, or by yourself but have forgotten because two years have
> passed, I know you'll be surprised to see emails all of a sudden. There
was
> no way for me to tell when addresses where disabled. Again, I was
prevented
> by a mistake by Yahoo Groups from administering the Yahoo Groups side of
> the list (What is it about this list that others try to hijack it (whether
> on purpose or by accident?)), and it took over two years of constant
> attempts to get it finally corrected. If someone else had your email
> address then, or subscribed you without your knowledge back then, or
you've
> forgotten about being subscribed and want to unsubscribe please visit
> https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> and scroll down to the bottom to unsubscribe. If you have any problems,
> please email me.
>
> Again, my apologies. I will put the list back to unmoderated as soon as
> possible.
>
> David Merchant
>
> Director of Integrated Technology
> CATALyST
> Louisiana Tech University
> PO Box 3179
> Ruston, LA 71272
> Tel: (318) 257-4772
> Fax: (318) 257-3852
> projectlife.latech.edu/
> c3.latech.edu/
> catalyst.latech.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  8 01:45:39 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 06:45:39 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
Message-ID: <F120xK4L2pcsxotxWb00003942a@hotmail.com>

exists in a <script
>language='JavaScript'>...</script> block in the header of mycode1.html, the 
>following will NOT work:
>
>   parent.document.frames["frameA"].document.foobar();
>
>The reason is that the 'document' object in frameA's code module doesn't 
>REALLY begin until it hits the <body> tag.  The correct procedure is 
>therefore
>
>   parent.document.frames["frameA"].foobar();

As far as I understand it has little to do with the BODY tag, but everything 
with the fact that the defined functions are properties/objects of the 
global object in the other frame. The global object is window, or self, and 
in the case of other frames parent.frames['name'] (not that here, too, I 
don't use 'document', though I'm less sure why not).

As far as I know the HEAD/BODY thing has little to do with the 
window/document difference.

>On a related subject, the erroneous assumption that onLoad correctly 
> >denotes the completion of the entire screen build can be easily tested 
> >by simply putting an onLoad='alert("done loading...")' declaration at 
> >the end of the <body> tag.  Unless you're
>dealing with some incredibly wimpy window, the alert will come up >ALWAYS 
>with part of the screen still undefined.  All those objects >which have yet 
>to be painted (which may NOT be merely jpegs and the >like, as 
>certain-people-who-will-remain-nameless
>suggested earlier) cannot be referenced by any code within the routine 
> >pointed to by the onLoad event.  In short, onLoad is broken.

No, it isn't. onLoad fires when all arrays like document.forms and 
document.images have been initialized and are accessible. Though indeed some 
images may not display yet, all elements inside the document are accessible 
onLoad, and that's the point of the event handler.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From alan.easton at unn.ac.uk  Tue Apr  8 08:45:58 2003
From: alan.easton at unn.ac.uk (Alan Easton)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:45:58 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation
Message-ID: <8CB72D8EAD84D411B3D600508BCF7B6C04A51E17@colorado.unn.ac.uk>

David,

I too must show my appreciation for what you have done. I have been with the
list for over 3 years now, and it has been invaluable to me, it has educated
me.

I do hope you and the list continues.

Many Thanks,

Alan Easton...

-----Original Message-----
From: Kilroy [mailto:kilroy at lewiscounty.com]
Sent: 08 April 2003 00:30
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: Re: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation


Dave,

I've been a mostly lurker on this list for hmm.. a couple of years anyway.

Just wanted to thank you for your patience and quick response to this yahoo
emails snafu, not to even mention all the extra work I know this list has
been at times for  you.

I just wanted to reaffirm the positives about the list that  you mentioned
and to add that IMO  you've been doing a first rate job and also,  to thank
you for all  the work you do, managing the list.

Cheers

Jim Hudson


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Merchant" <mountaindragon at startrek.net>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: [Javascript] ADMIN: Emergency Moderation


> The list is on emergency moderation, all posts must be approved, this is
to
> catch any other annoying bounces. Most of the bounces were because of 6
> address out of over 1,000 that sent bounces back to the list. Rest assured
> the number of bounced messages you got through the list was only a
fraction
> of what I was deluded with.
>
> To repeat: I deleted the email addresses that Yahoo! Groups said weren't
> good any more for the half of the list on Yahoo! Groups, so I thought I
had
> caught enough of the bad addresses to avoid a deluge of bounce messages. I
> was wrong. The bounces were supposed to only go to me. Again, I was wrong:
> some types end up getting to the list.
>
> I  unsubbed the bad six addresses, but am hesitant to trust that all is
> back to normal.
>
> 2 1/2 years of pent up problems happening all at once. Thanks again,
Yahoo!
> Groups.  I wish I could've gotten them to correct the problem earlier, but
> it didn't happen.
>
> For those that had signed up years ago to the list via eGroups or Yahoo
> Groups and had your account put to no mail by a period of bounces/problems
> with your email, or by yourself but have forgotten because two years have
> passed, I know you'll be surprised to see emails all of a sudden. There
was
> no way for me to tell when addresses where disabled. Again, I was
prevented
> by a mistake by Yahoo Groups from administering the Yahoo Groups side of
> the list (What is it about this list that others try to hijack it (whether
> on purpose or by accident?)), and it took over two years of constant
> attempts to get it finally corrected. If someone else had your email
> address then, or subscribed you without your knowledge back then, or
you've
> forgotten about being subscribed and want to unsubscribe please visit
> https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> and scroll down to the bottom to unsubscribe. If you have any problems,
> please email me.
>
> Again, my apologies. I will put the list back to unmoderated as soon as
> possible.
>
> David Merchant
>
> Director of Integrated Technology
> CATALyST
> Louisiana Tech University
> PO Box 3179
> Ruston, LA 71272
> Tel: (318) 257-4772
> Fax: (318) 257-3852
> projectlife.latech.edu/
> c3.latech.edu/
> catalyst.latech.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 09:26:04 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:26:04 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
References: <F120xK4L2pcsxotxWb00003942a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E92DBEF.FC3132D2@gazos.com>


Dear Peter:

  I'm open to debate on subjects of syntactical niceties within JavaScript: some
of the team that co-developed the various pieces are not in complete agreement on
some of the philosophical issues, so who am i to cast my 5-cents into the pot.

  However, the bit about NOT using the document appendage to the DOM description
of an item in the header is demonstrably true (and will break if you insert it).

  Also, if you write a tree-walk of the elements within a document.form in lieu
of the simple-minded 'alert' I suggested, you'll often discover that some of the
elements really AREN'T there (as I contended).  I'm sure it was the intent of 
the designers that onload work as you suggest it should (and I would dearly like
it to), but there are apparently some issues as to when the object pointers are
queued, and when they are actually placed.  My suspicion is that as soon as all
the object pointers are queued the onLoad event gets triggered, in the naive hope
that by the time the handler actually gets invoked the queue will have finished
placing everything.  Maybe in the days of the 8MHz 80286 AT boxes, but today...

I can't really fault your judgement -- it is what I read in countless JavaScript
references (and found supported in the original RFC's), and is intuitively consistant
with the way the rest of the language works.  Moreover, I believed it myself until
I started working with fairly large and ugly window constructs which somehow didn't
quite seem "finished" when the onLoad kicked in.

While the problem is particularly noticeable when you have multiframe documents,it
works adequately for short and simple demos with only a few objects in each window
and a relatively low latency in the build process.  Also, I've found that dynamic
constructs (in ASP, PHP, JavaScript, etc.) which require extensive calculation to build
accentuate the effect.  Some of this may simply be to the poor signalling methods
between these various languages, and some of it may be due to the streamlined
state-machine model that JavaScript uses -- I don't know, and haven't yet devised
methods for finding out.

>From some preliminary testing, the easiest demos to build are ones in which multi-frame
documents with lots of fields in every frame are used.  The onLoad event gets triggered
(it seems) when every frame is referenced by the parent frameset, and NOT when every
field in every frame document is complete.  Thus, the frames at the bottom of the window
are often only half-done when the event-handler is invoked.  Try it!  You'll see!

-- Dave Lovering  

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
> 
> exists in a <script
> >language='JavaScript'>...</script> block in the header of mycode1.html, the
> >following will NOT work:
> >
> >   parent.document.frames["frameA"].document.foobar();
> >
> >The reason is that the 'document' object in frameA's code module doesn't
> >REALLY begin until it hits the <body> tag.  The correct procedure is
> >therefore
> >
> >   parent.document.frames["frameA"].foobar();
> 
> As far as I understand it has little to do with the BODY tag, but everything
> with the fact that the defined functions are properties/objects of the
> global object in the other frame. The global object is window, or self, and
> in the case of other frames parent.frames['name'] (not that here, too, I
> don't use 'document', though I'm less sure why not).
> 
> As far as I know the HEAD/BODY thing has little to do with the
> window/document difference.
> 
> >On a related subject, the erroneous assumption that onLoad correctly
> > >denotes the completion of the entire screen build can be easily tested
> > >by simply putting an onLoad='alert("done loading...")' declaration at
> > >the end of the <body> tag.  Unless you're
> >dealing with some incredibly wimpy window, the alert will come up >ALWAYS
> >with part of the screen still undefined.  All those objects >which have yet
> >to be painted (which may NOT be merely jpegs and the >like, as
> >certain-people-who-will-remain-nameless
> >suggested earlier) cannot be referenced by any code within the routine
> > >pointed to by the onLoad event.  In short, onLoad is broken.
> 
> No, it isn't. onLoad fires when all arrays like document.forms and
> document.images have been initialized and are accessible. Though indeed some
> images may not display yet, all elements inside the document are accessible
> onLoad, and that's the point of the event handler.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  8 09:41:35 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:41:35 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
Message-ID: <F64s01GijnlGhJ7nnsb0003b019@hotmail.com>



>   However, the bit about NOT using the document appendage to the DOM 
>description of an item in the header is demonstrably true (and will break 
>if you insert it).

I don't dispute the fact, merely your explanation (I assume you're talking 
about the cross-frame example here).

>   Also, if you write a tree-walk of the elements within a document.form in 
>lieu of the simple-minded 'alert' I suggested, you'll often discover that 
>some of the elements really AREN'T there (as I contended).

Odd. I never had the slightest problem with accessing form fields onLoad, 
and I've done it countless times. Changing styles of elements, no problems 
either. Can you post an example script?

> >From some preliminary testing, the easiest demos to build are ones in 
>which multi-frame documents with lots of fields in every frame are used.  
>The onLoad event gets triggered (it seems) when every frame is referenced 
>by the parent frameset, and NOT when every field in every frame document is 
>complete.  Thus, the frames at the bottom of the window are often only 
>half-done when the event-handler is invoked.  Try it!  You'll see!

That's right, an onLoad in a frameset can cause quite some problems. I've 
learned to avoid them.


--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------




_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


From lamak_98 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  8 09:55:45 2003
From: lamak_98 at yahoo.com (karma lama)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
In-Reply-To: <F64s01GijnlGhJ7nnsb0003b019@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030408145545.88265.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com>

can somne one please REMOVE my email from this lsit.

thanks
karma

--- Peter-Paul Koch <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >   However, the bit about NOT using the document
> appendage to the DOM 
> >description of an item in the header is
> demonstrably true (and will break 
> >if you insert it).
> 
> I don't dispute the fact, merely your explanation (I
> assume you're talking 
> about the cross-frame example here).
> 
> >   Also, if you write a tree-walk of the elements
> within a document.form in 
> >lieu of the simple-minded 'alert' I suggested,
> you'll often discover that 
> >some of the elements really AREN'T there (as I
> contended).
> 
> Odd. I never had the slightest problem with
> accessing form fields onLoad, 
> and I've done it countless times. Changing styles of
> elements, no problems 
> either. Can you post an example script?
> 
> > >From some preliminary testing, the easiest demos
> to build are ones in 
> >which multi-frame documents with lots of fields in
> every frame are used.  
> >The onLoad event gets triggered (it seems) when
> every frame is referenced 
> >by the parent frameset, and NOT when every field in
> every frame document is 
> >complete.  Thus, the frames at the bottom of the
> window are often only 
> >half-done when the event-handler is invoked.  Try
> it!  You'll see!
> 
> That's right, an onLoad in a frameset can cause
> quite some problems. I've 
> learned to avoid them.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> Column "Keep it Simple":
> http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


=====
karma lama
Grand Ave 1787 Apt # 8
St.Paul, MN-55105

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Tue Apr  8 09:59:55 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:59:55 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] JavaScript List Unsubscirbe Info
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408085641.028822e8@mail.latech.edu>

If you wish to unsubscribe, visit 
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

or send a message with the word `help' in it to the request address, 
javascript-request at LaTech.edu, for further instructions.

Realize that there may be a few posts in "the pipeline" that have been sent 
to the list before you unsubscribe but haven't yet reached your inbox yet. 
Thus when you unsubscribe you may still receive a few posts.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From ghaecker at cscploenzke.de  Tue Apr  8 10:03:21 2003
From: ghaecker at cscploenzke.de (Gunnar Haecker)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:03:21 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
Message-ID: <OFBC99B551.9BF7E4DC-ONC1256D02.0052A79F@com>


Please remove my email from this list.

Thanks
Gunnar


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                      karma lama                                                                                                        
                      <lamak_98                To:      "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>                                     
                      @yahoo.com>              cc:                                                                                      
                      Sent by:                 Subject: Re: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution               
                      javascript-bounc                                                                                                  
                      es                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                        
                      08/04/2003 16:55                                                                                                  
                      Please respond                                                                                                    
                      to "[JavaScript                                                                                                   
                      List]"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                        




can somne one please REMOVE my email from this lsit.

thanks
karma

--- Peter-Paul Koch <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >   However, the bit about NOT using the document
> appendage to the DOM
> >description of an item in the header is
> demonstrably true (and will break
> >if you insert it).
>
> I don't dispute the fact, merely your explanation (I
> assume you're talking
> about the cross-frame example here).
>
> >   Also, if you write a tree-walk of the elements
> within a document.form in
> >lieu of the simple-minded 'alert' I suggested,
> you'll often discover that
> >some of the elements really AREN'T there (as I
> contended).
>
> Odd. I never had the slightest problem with
> accessing form fields onLoad,
> and I've done it countless times. Changing styles of
> elements, no problems
> either. Can you post an example script?
>
> > >From some preliminary testing, the easiest demos
> to build are ones in
> >which multi-frame documents with lots of fields in
> every frame are used.
> >The onLoad event gets triggered (it seems) when
> every frame is referenced
> >by the parent frameset, and NOT when every field in
> every frame document is
> >complete.  Thus, the frames at the bottom of the
> window are often only
> >half-done when the event-handler is invoked.  Try
> it!  You'll see!
>
> That's right, an onLoad in a frameset can cause
> quite some problems. I've
> learned to avoid them.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> Column "Keep it Simple":
> http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


=====
karma lama
Grand Ave 1787 Apt # 8
St.Paul, MN-55105

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript





From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Tue Apr  8 10:35:04 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:35:04 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
In-Reply-To: <BAB854FD.47C3%jimmyj@microcompcreative.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408093248.02882138@mail.latech.edu>

At 10:29 AM 4/8/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hey, I didn't really want to unsubscribe to the javascript list, but was 
>going to see if there was an option to get just a daily digest instead of 
>every correspondence, but when clicking on your email link
>
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

There's a security certificate expired warning I believe that pops up on 
some peoples browsers. Another person has reported it happening to them 
whenever they go to that link, I will be contacting the Computing Center 
here about it.

If you want, I can manually set your mail settings to digest for you.

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From LMuchacho at twii.net  Tue Apr  8 10:39:50 2003
From: LMuchacho at twii.net (Muchacho, Laurent (TWIi London))
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:39:50 +0100 
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
Message-ID: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F54@tldnex01>

Solution at your problem 
take your mac put it in a bin
 
L
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Johns [mailto:jimmyj at microcompcreative.com]
Sent: 08 April 2003 18:29
To: Javascript at LaTech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link


Hey, I didn't really want to unsubscribe to the javascript list, but was
going to see if there was an option to get just a daily digest instead of
every correspondence, but when clicking on your email link

https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

my computer totally freezes up. 
I'm running a macintosh with OS 9.2.1 and  my default browser is IE 5.1.6 
the reaction upon clicking the link is that it launches an IE window and
then a dialog window pops up, but i never get to see what is in the window
as my computer freezes. 
----------------------------
James D. Johns
Microcomp Creative
8364 SW Nimbus Ave.
Beaverton, Oregon 97008
jimmyj at microcompcreative.com






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message, or have otherwise received it in error, please notify the sender by
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From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Tue Apr  8 11:03:49 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:03:49 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
In-Reply-To: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F54@tldnex01>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408095926.0266e7f0@mail.latech.edu>

At 04:39 PM 4/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Solution at your problem
>take your mac put it in a bin

This may just been a joke. Otherwise, if not, please, let us be 
professional. There are over 6 billion people on this planet, and thus a 
lot of diversity. What works great for one person, doesn't for another. 
Especially for some niche markets, the Mac is a better platform. For other 
markets, the PC.

This list doesn't care, it is about writing JavaScript, and like it or not, 
there are many different platforms out there.

In other words, no flaming somebody because they use a different computer 
or different browser.

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 11:13:22 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:13:22 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] 
 Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line (PHP) code references withinan 
 HTML document
References: <F64s01GijnlGhJ7nnsb0003b019@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E92F505.BFC2232C@gazos.com>


While continuing to research the multiframe/multiform issues with respect to the 'onLoad' event, I came across another conundrum.

How does one reference in-line code modules within a given HTML document, particularly if they are to be invoked by a Javascript call?  The reverse is simple (simply embed a <script> ... </script> block), so I had hopes that this would be also.  Yes, yes
-- I know:  I'm mixing client-side code with server-side code.  Dont' bug me -- it works (and works well), despite what the books would have you believe.  As long as you keep tabs on the sequence of invocation and who has the execution and/or access to
which variables, it isn't that tough.  However, I want to condense my rather large collection of executable php files into some kind of inline structure I can mesh passively with the regular HTML document, and still invoke the needed routines from
JavaScript whenever I like.

I've experimented with DIVs, IFRAMEs, anchors, and such like -- but all of these tend to have a screen presence, and distort the existing screen geometry.  The only way I've found (so far) that works is to deliberately build another window, hide it, pour
the PHP code (or whatever) into it, and then back-reference to the objects in the window.opener document.  This is ugly, and it tends to turn one's statusbar into a riot of activity.

Any clues?  I'm certain there is some bizarre combination of anchors, divs, <script> and such-like that will permit this to happen, but I've found no references to anyone else doing it.  It is one piece of magic I'd really like to have in my warchest.

-- Dave Lovering

From LMuchacho at twii.net  Tue Apr  8 11:18:12 2003
From: LMuchacho at twii.net (Muchacho, Laurent (TWIi London))
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:18:12 +0100 
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
Message-ID: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F56@tldnex01>

This was a joke 
I help more then once people with mac issue
I just spend a day fixing bug on mac 
 
Sorry

-----Original Message-----
From: David Merchant [mailto:merchant at LATECH.EDU]
Sent: 08 April 2003 17:07
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: RE: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link


At 04:39 PM 4/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:


Solution at your problem 
take your mac put it in a bin


This may just been a joke. Otherwise, if not, please, let us be
professional. There are over 6 billion people on this planet, and thus a lot
of diversity. What works great for one person, doesn't for another.
Especially for some niche markets, the Mac is a better platform. For other
markets, the PC. 

This list doesn't care, it is about writing JavaScript, and like it or not,
there are many different platforms out there.

In other words, no flaming somebody because they use a different computer or
different browser.

TTFN,
David


Director of Integrated Technology 
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University 
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272 
Tel: (318) 257-4772 
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu 



DISCLAIMER - The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments)
contains information that may be confidential, may be protected by the
attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or may constitute non-public
information.  It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated
recipient(s) named above.  If you are not an intended recipient of this
message, or have otherwise received it in error, please notify the sender by
replying to this message and then delete all copies of it from your computer
system.  Any use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this
message by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. The
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this company.
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From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Tue Apr  8 11:19:20 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:19:20 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
In-Reply-To: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F56@tldnex01>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408101805.02885aa0@mail.latech.edu>

At 05:18 PM 4/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>This was a joke
>I help more then once people with mac issue
>I just spend a day fixing bug on mac

No problem, sometimes hard to read tone/humor through email!

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Tue Apr  8 11:20:44 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:20:44 -0400
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line (PHP) code
	references withina
In-Reply-To: <fc.49bfa31749bfa317b72f1aff3b9aca00.5d572f@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIEDHDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

<span id='hiddenStuff' style='display: none;'>
  <!--this HTML will render inside an undisplayed container -->
  <input type='text' name='pseudo-hidden-field1' value='' />
</span>
<input type='button' value='Toggle'
onClick='(hiddenStuff.style.display=="none") ? "inline" : "none"; ' />

  One nice side effect of putting visible inputs into a hidden container is
that you can easily toggle the span's display for debugging (then take the
toggle function away in the production version)


-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 12:13 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line (PHP) code
references withina



While continuing to research the multiframe/multiform issues with respect
to the 'onLoad' event, I came across another conundrum.

How does one reference in-line code modules within a given HTML document,
particularly if they are to be invoked by a Javascript call?  The reverse
is simple (simply embed a <script> ... </script> block), so I had hopes
that this would be also.  Yes, yes
-- I know:  I'm mixing client-side code with server-side code.  Dont' bug
me -- it works (and works well), despite what the books would have you
believe.  As long as you keep tabs on the sequence of invocation and who
has the execution and/or access to
which variables, it isn't that tough.  However, I want to condense my
rather large collection of executable php files into some kind of inline
structure I can mesh passively with the regular HTML document, and still
invoke the needed routines from
JavaScript whenever I like.

I've experimented with DIVs, IFRAMEs, anchors, and such like -- but all of
these tend to have a screen presence, and distort the existing screen
geometry.  The only way I've found (so far) that works is to deliberately
build another window, hide it, pour
the PHP code (or whatever) into it, and then back-reference to the objects
in the window.opener document.  This is ugly, and it tends to turn one's
statusbar into a riot of activity.

Any clues?  I'm certain there is some bizarre combination of anchors,
divs, <script> and such-like that will permit this to happen, but I've
found no references to anyone else doing it.  It is one piece of magic I'd
really like to have in my warchest.

-- Dave Lovering
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 11:55:25 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:55:25 -0700
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line (PHP) 
 codereferences withina
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIEDHDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3E92FEDA.9B2C3089@gazos.com>


Michael's suggestion gets about half-way to where I need to be...  merely manipulating the
style properties of objects inside a span is useful, but a far cry from remote execution.

Michael Dougherty wrote:
> 
> <span id='hiddenStuff' style='display: none;'>
>   <!--this HTML will render inside an undisplayed container -->
>   <input type='text' name='pseudo-hidden-field1' value='' />
> </span>
> <input type='button' value='Toggle'
> onClick='(hiddenStuff.style.display=="none") ? "inline" : "none"; ' />

What would be really neat is if this could be generalized as follows:

  <span id='hiddenStuff' style='display: none'>
  <!-- this HTML will render inside an undisplayed container -->
  <?php
    function somethingReallyComplex(var1, var2, var3, ...) {
      lots of abstruse PHP code...
      return returnValue;
    }
  ?>
  </span>

  and elsewhere in the more visible code...

  <input type='button' value='launch somethingReallyComplex'
         onClick='[mysterious stuff] somethingReallyComplex(val1, val2, val3, ...) [more mysterious stuff]'>

  If all the parameters, objects, etc. which are needed by the PHP code are already defined and accessible, the client should (in theory) be able to invoke the PHP code out-of-band.  There are ways of doing this presently by launching a remote and popping
the PHP code into it, but that is sort of awkward.  (Also the window manager gets
grumpy if you have orphan windows laying about after a premature manual exit).  I'd like to replace the remote with the same or similar code inside an embedded in-line structure of some sort.  Who cares if it is actually executing on the server -- what
matters is that the PHP code is invoked by user-generated events, and makes reference to client-side window elements and data.

  Yours in perplexity,

  Dave Lovering

From jimmyj at microcompcreative.com  Tue Apr  8 12:29:17 2003
From: jimmyj at microcompcreative.com (Jimmy Johns)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:29:17 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
Message-ID: <BAB854FD.47C3%jimmyj@microcompcreative.com>

Hey, I didn't really want to unsubscribe to the javascript list, but was
going to see if there was an option to get just a daily digest instead of
every correspondence, but when clicking on your email link

https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

my computer totally freezes up.
I'm running a macintosh with OS 9.2.1 and  my default browser is IE 5.1.6
the reaction upon clicking the link is that it launches an IE window and
then a dialog window pops up, but i never get to see what is in the window
as my computer freezes.
----------------------------
James D. Johns
Microcomp Creative
8364 SW Nimbus Ave.
Beaverton, Oregon 97008
jimmyj at microcompcreative.com



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From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Tue Apr  8 12:32:42 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:32:42 -0400
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line (PHP)
	codereferences wit
In-Reply-To: <fc.46e31ac646e31ac636ff826a3b9aca00.5d5931@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIEDJDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

actually, that onClick should have been:
onClick='hiddenStuff.style.display = (hiddenStuff.style.display=="none") ?
"inline" : "none"; '

What do you mean by remote execution?  What are you using it for?
(I'm not familiar with PHP, i thought it was a server side language...)

OK, i think i have a better picture of what you mean.

If your business logic is tied up in server-side PHP/data, then why not
execute the form?  I'm not trying to dismiss the problem, just understand
why other technologies aren't used.  If the idea is to put the result of a
function into the document, then have you tried the iframe sourced on a
remote procedure handler?

<span ... >
  <iframe id='callToServer' src='' ><iframe>
</span>
<input type='text' name='var1' value='a' />
<input type='text' name='var2' value='b' />

<span id='result'></span>

<input type='button' value='SS-Compute'
	onClick='callToServer.src= "/somethingReallyComplex.xyz?var1=" + var1.value
+ "&var2=" + var2.value;
			result.innerHTML = callToServer.innerHTML; ' />

(if the innerHTML is "bad" then feel free to use a DOM-compliant equivalent
:)

  If these were manipulations of data, then i'd suggest using ADO to access
SQL Stored Procedures directly from the client - but that does require the
database server be accessible (and vulnerable) to the user's environment.
This may not be a problem if there is a single user account with minimal
required rights on a server hardened for exposure.

  I may also be missing the point entirely :)

-----Original Message-----
Michael's suggestion gets about half-way to where I need to be...  merely
manipulating the
style properties of objects inside a span is useful, but a far cry from
remote execution.

Michael Dougherty wrote:
>>
>> <span id='hiddenStuff' style='display: none;'>
>>   <!--this HTML will render inside an undisplayed container -->
>>   <input type='text' name='pseudo-hidden-field1' value='' />
>> </span>
>> <input type='button' value='Toggle'
>> onClick='(hiddenStuff.style.display=="none") ? "inline" : "none"; ' />

What would be really neat is if this could be generalized as follows:

  <span id='hiddenStuff' style='display: none'>
  <!-- this HTML will render inside an undisplayed container -->
  <?php
    function somethingReallyComplex(var1, var2, var3, ...) {
      lots of abstruse PHP code...
      return returnValue;
    }
  ?>
  </span>

  and elsewhere in the more visible code...

  <input type='button' value='launch somethingReallyComplex'
         onClick='[mysterious stuff] somethingReallyComplex(val1, val2,
val3, ...) [more mysterious stuff]'>

  If all the parameters, objects, etc. which are needed by the PHP code
are already defined and accessible, the client should (in theory) be able
to invoke the PHP code out-of-band.  There are ways of doing this
presently by launching a remote and popping
the PHP code into it, but that is sort of awkward.  (Also the window
manager gets
grumpy if you have orphan windows laying about after a premature manual
exit).  I'd like to replace the remote with the same or similar code
inside an embedded in-line structure of some sort.  Who cares if it is
actually executing on the server -- what
matters is that the PHP code is invoked by user-generated events, and
makes reference to client-side window elements and data.

  Yours in perplexity,

  Dave Lovering
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From jimmyj at microcompcreative.com  Tue Apr  8 12:41:44 2003
From: jimmyj at microcompcreative.com (Jimmy Johns)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:41:44 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408093248.02882138@mail.latech.edu>
Message-ID: <BAB857E8.47CC%jimmyj@microcompcreative.com>

that would be great David-please set it to digest...thanks so much for your
patience through the email nightmare you had. It really wasn't so bad
because of your responsibility and patience to the matter...those things can
explode into hate emails and the like...NICE JOB!
-jimmy
----------------------------
James D. Johns
Microcomp Creative
8364 SW Nimbus Ave.
Beaverton, Oregon 97008
jimmyj at microcompcreative.com



From: David Merchant <merchant at LATECH.EDU>
Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:35:04 -0600
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
Resent-From: <merchant at latech.edu>
Resent-Date: Tue,  8 Apr 2003 10:38:21 -0500 (CDT)


At 10:29 AM 4/8/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Hey, I didn't really want to unsubscribe to the javascript list, but was
going to see if there was an option to get just a daily digest instead of
every correspondence, but when clicking on your email link

https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

There's a security certificate expired warning I believe that pops up on
some peoples browsers. Another person has reported it happening to them
whenever they go to that link, I will be contacting the Computing Center
here about it. 

If you want, I can manually set your mail settings to digest for you.

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272 
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



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From jimmyj at microcompcreative.com  Tue Apr  8 12:42:06 2003
From: jimmyj at microcompcreative.com (Jimmy Johns)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:42:06 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
In-Reply-To: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F54@tldnex01>
Message-ID: <BAB857FE.47CD%jimmyj@microcompcreative.com>

?

----------------------------
James D. Johns
Microcomp Creative
8364 SW Nimbus Ave.
Beaverton, Oregon 97008
jimmyj at microcompcreative.com



From: "Muchacho, Laurent (TWIi London)" <LMuchacho at twii.net>
Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:39:50 +0100
To: "'[JavaScript List]'" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Subject: RE: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link


Solution at your problem
take your mac put it in a bin
 
L
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Johns [mailto:jimmyj at microcompcreative.com]
Sent: 08 April 2003 18:29
To: Javascript at LaTech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link

Hey, I didn't really want to unsubscribe to the javascript list, but was
going to see if there was an option to get just a daily digest instead of
every correspondence, but when clicking on your email link

https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

my computer totally freezes up.
I'm running a macintosh with OS 9.2.1 and  my default browser is IE 5.1.6
the reaction upon clicking the link is that it launches an IE window and
then a dialog window pops up, but i never get to see what is in the window
as my computer freezes.
----------------------------
James D. Johns
Microcomp Creative
8364 SW Nimbus Ave.
Beaverton, Oregon 97008
jimmyj at microcompcreative.com





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_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
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https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



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From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 14:38:40 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 12:38:40 -0700
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line 
 (PHP)codereferences wit
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIEDJDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3E932506.2073040B@gazos.com>


Hmmm... I think we're getting closer.  The problem I have is that although
JavaScript is invaluable at handling all the addressable DOM elements in
a window-based application, its support of database lookups, external i/o,
files, etc. is a bit weak (particularly when they reside on the server).
The PHP (or whatever) handles database lookups, file processing, and system
interface stuff like a dream, but is only marginally powerful at tweaking
the various minutae of the window constructs.  By combining them together
(with appropriate sensitivity to security issues), you get the best of
both worlds.  Treating PHP, ASP, or whatever purely as a forms processing
language in the fashion of a CGI/BIN is missing about 80% of the true kick
that these respective languages can offer.

The problem with 'executing the form' is that with any terribly complicated
application a great deal of number crunching and lots of incremental back-and-forthing
with the user may be required.  Of course, one can always build 27 different
windows, and 27 different form-handlers to deal with them all, but that seems
a bit extreme.  The dynamic code aspect lets a lot of the backend work be
carried on without any visible interruption of the user's session, or tedious
redraws/refreshes of the screen.  Since most of this involves database lookups
and the like (which aren't particularly graphic in nature), all goes smoothly.

The src redirection of an iframe within a span looks like it has real possibilities.
Any real security nazi would probably insist on a "POST" session interface rather
than a clear-text GET, but the idea is definitely there. I'll poke around with it
and see if I can develop a paradigm that will work with my applications.  If it
boils out, I'll post a couple of code snippets to show what I come up with.

Thanks!

BTW -- if we're being canonical, shouldn't the <input> declarations of var1,
var2, etc. be inside the span? Not that I'm complaining, mind you...

-- Dave Lovering

Michael Dougherty wrote:
> If the idea is to put the result of a
> function into the document, then have you tried the iframe sourced on a
> remote procedure handler?
> 
> <span ... >
>   <iframe id='callToServer' src='' ><iframe>
> </span>
> <input type='text' name='var1' value='a' />
> <input type='text' name='var2' value='b' />
> 
> <span id='result'></span>
> 
> <input type='button' value='SS-Compute'
>         onClick='callToServer.src= "/somethingReallyComplex.xyz?var1=" + var1.value
> + "&var2=" + var2.value;
> result.innerHTML = callToServer.innerHTML; ' />

From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Tue Apr  8 16:02:27 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:02:27 -0400
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable, in-line
	(PHP)codereferences wit
In-Reply-To: <fc.68def36268def3622b3053c83b9aca00.5d6062@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMAEDNDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

I was picturing those as user-accessible inputs, so you could get the
parameters for the query

If you have any "security nazis" addressing wire-theft, you could munge the
values and de-munge them in the server-side processor - but it's probably
not worth the effort if someone simply views your munging routine.  (and if
a cracker can swipe your data off the wire, they can read the http headers
as easily as the URL)

I'm interested to see what you come up with, since i've added my $0.02 to
this project without testing any of it  <g>

-----Original Message-----
BTW -- if we're being canonical, shouldn't the <input> declarations of
var1,
var2, etc. be inside the span? Not that I'm complaining, mind you...

-- Dave Lovering

Michael Dougherty wrote:
>> If the idea is to put the result of a
>> function into the document, then have you tried the iframe sourced on a
>> remote procedure handler?
>>
>> <span ... >
>>   <iframe id='callToServer' src='' ><iframe>
>> </span>
>> <input type='text' name='var1' value='a' />
>> <input type='text' name='var2' value='b' />
>>
>> <span id='result'></span>
>>
>> <input type='button' value='SS-Compute'
>>         onClick='callToServer.src= "/somethingReallyComplex.xyz?var1="
>+ var1.value
>> + "&var2=" + var2.value;
>> result.innerHTML = callToServer.innerHTML; ' />
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 16:27:26 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:27:26 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive, Javascript-callable,
	in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMAEDNDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <000901c2fe15$a71402b0$0500000a@arcana>


Ah yes, when the <input> declarations are inside the span, they go "dark"
with respect to the outside DOM
model.  Same problem with OBJECT and PARAM declarations.  I'd forgotten --
thanks for reminding me.

In theory (there's a lot of that going around), the session method of
exchanging data elements uses a one-time
encryption key to fold the datagram into an out-of-band (at least outside
the URL) transfer to the other handler
which already has the encryption key [it generated it in the first place].
The only portion which is visible on the answerback URL is the session
identifier, which is useless without the key and the datagram.

My spies tell me that this session methodology is going to be part of the
new "secure-forms" handling suite which is part of the IPSec2 initiative.

-- Dave

> I was picturing those as user-accessible inputs, so you could get the
> parameters for the query
>
> If you have any "security nazis" addressing wire-theft, you could munge
the
> values and de-munge them in the server-side processor - but it's probably
> not worth the effort if someone simply views your munging routine.  (and
if
> a cracker can swipe your data off the wire, they can read the http headers
> as easily as the URL)
>
> I'm interested to see what you come up with, since i've added my $0.02 to
> this project without testing any of it  <g>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> BTW -- if we're being canonical, shouldn't the <input> declarations of
> var1,
> var2, etc. be inside the span? Not that I'm complaining, mind you...
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> Michael Dougherty wrote:
> >> If the idea is to put the result of a
> >> function into the document, then have you tried the iframe sourced on a
> >> remote procedure handler?
> >>
> >> <span ... >
> >>   <iframe id='callToServer' src='' ><iframe>
> >> </span>
> >> <input type='text' name='var1' value='a' />
> >> <input type='text' name='var2' value='b' />
> >>
> >> <span id='result'></span>
> >>
> >> <input type='button' value='SS-Compute'
> >>         onClick='callToServer.src= "/somethingReallyComplex.xyz?var1="
> >+ var1.value
> >> + "&var2=" + var2.value;
> >> result.innerHTML = callToServer.innerHTML; ' />
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr  8 16:57:18 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:57:18 +1200
Subject: [Javascript]  Passive,
	Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMAEDNDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
	<000901c2fe15$a71402b0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <00b601c2fe19$d3c166a0$18e8adcb@k1n8i8>


I've missed most of this thread, but have you looked at Brent Ashley's

http://ashleyit.com/rs/jsrs/select/php/select.php  for his remote scripting,
allowing Javascript routines to access server side functions and return
values to the client without refreshing the page.

I found it too complicated for me, I can get a similar but not as
sophisticated effect using a hidden frame.

(quite happy to accept I'm way off the thread!)

Cheers
Andrew



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  8 17:08:30 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:08:30 +0000
Subject: [Javascript]
	Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
Message-ID: <F13dZ6VzvdrEb6MXb0z0003e457@hotmail.com>



>I've missed most of this thread, but have you looked at Brent Ashley's
>
>http://ashleyit.com/rs/jsrs/select/php/select.php  for his remote 
>scripting,
>allowing Javascript routines to access server side functions and return
>values to the client without refreshing the page.
>
>I found it too complicated for me, I can get a similar but not as
>sophisticated effect using a hidden frame.

This script also uses a hidden iframe, but it dynamically writes it into the 
page. Otherwise it's, sorry to say so, typically server-side-programmer's 
JavaScript: far too much code for a not so very complicated effect.

But it does what you want, no doubt about that.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr  8 17:20:40 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:20:40 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <F13dZ6VzvdrEb6MXb0z0003e457@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c2fe1d$16d575f0$0500000a@arcana>

Again, I'd have to agree -- although it does do remote scripting, it does it
in such a
complicated fashion that I'd worry about the intricacies of keeping all the
pieces in
good working order.  If I had done it I would have regarded it as a
"proof-of-concept",
and then set about reducing it in size and complexity by a factor of 10
before I put it
in working production code.

Still, it gives me some ideas...

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:08 PM
Subject: Re:
[Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit


>
>
> >I've missed most of this thread, but have you looked at Brent Ashley's
> >
> >http://ashleyit.com/rs/jsrs/select/php/select.php  for his remote
> >scripting,
> >allowing Javascript routines to access server side functions and return
> >values to the client without refreshing the page.
> >
> >I found it too complicated for me, I can get a similar but not as
> >sophisticated effect using a hidden frame.
>
> This script also uses a hidden iframe, but it dynamically writes it into
the
> page. Otherwise it's, sorry to say so, typically server-side-programmer's
> JavaScript: far too much code for a not so very complicated effect.
>
> But it does what you want, no doubt about that.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr  8 17:30:58 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:30:58 +1200
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <F13dZ6VzvdrEb6MXb0z0003e457@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <010701c2fe1e$87519560$18e8adcb@k1n8i8>

I've used a hidden frame for a similar effect, probably a mickey mouse way
of doing it, but........

Have a function on the main page access a function in the hidden frame.

something like

<a href=javascript:parent.frames['hidden'].getData()><Get data from
server</a>

and then in the hidden frame have the function populate a form and post it.
Then whenever data i get from the server, I write to a <div> or whatever on
the main page from the hidden frame.

Andrew




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>http://ashleyit.com/rs/jsrs/select/php/select.php  for his remote
>scripting,

This script also uses a hidden iframe, but it dynamically writes it into the
page. Otherwise it's, sorry to say so, typically server-side-programmer's
JavaScript: far too much code for a not so very complicated effect.

But it does what you want, no doubt about that.

--------------------------------------------------




From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Wed Apr  9 05:58:21 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:58:21 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] macintosh freezup on your link
References: <BAB854FD.47C3%jimmyj@microcompcreative.com>
Message-ID: <3E93FCCD.1010106@aflyingstart.net>

On a recent test with some javascripted site  a user reported :

MacOS8.6 and IE5: result happiness
MacOS9.2.2 and IE5: result misery

MacOS8.6 and NS7: result happiness
MacOS9.2.2 and NS4.7: result happiness

Rodney



Jimmy Johns wrote:

> my computer totally freezes up.
> I'm running a macintosh with OS 9.2.1 and  my default browser is IE 5.1.6
> the reaction upon clicking the link is that it launches an IE window 
> and then a dialog window pops up, but i never get to see what is in 
> the window as my computer freezes.





From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Wed Apr  9 06:07:57 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:07:57 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
References: 	<5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
	<3E8A4B8F.264FCED0@gazos.com> <3E91978C.840BB413@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <3E93FF0D.70300@aflyingstart.net>

David,

What, in the circumstances you describe, is wrong with

parent.frameA.foobar();
or 
parent.frames["frameA"].foobar();

?

Since this is what I now write, and it works, I am very interested, and 
I have no doubt you have a cogent reason.
If necessary I will change all my code, always willing to learn 
something I did not know.

Rodney


David T. Lovering wrote:

>A number of folks have been alluding to coding structures that require invoking routines across frames (parent/child, child/parent, peer/peer), including IFRAMEs.  One of the elements that seems to be missing from the standard documentation and the
>JavaScript/JScript RFC's (including the W3C state model) is the fact that when invoking JavaScript one must consider the placement within the target frame as to how one addresses it.
>
>For example, if we have two peer frames (frameA and frameB), each containing mycode1.html and mycode2.html respectively, and it is intended that mycode2.html invoke a JavaScript routine 'foobar()' which exists in a <script
>language='JavaScript'>...</script> block in the header of mycode1.html, the following will NOT work:
>
>  parent.document.frames["frameA"].document.foobar();
>
>The reason is that the 'document' object in frameA's code module doesn't REALLY begin until it hits the <body> tag.  The correct procedure is therefore
>
>  parent.document.frames["frameA"].foobar();
>
>  
>
<snip>





From saleandro at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 07:07:25 2003
From: saleandro at yahoo.com (Sabrina Leandro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <20030408222407.1FA033097BC@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <20030409120725.8866.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Could someone tell me if this would work? Considering
there is a richtext element in a form called
formulario? 

function
window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown() {
     return SetFocus();
}

thanks,
Sabrina



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From jaime at alazan.com  Wed Apr  9 07:41:27 2003
From: jaime at alazan.com (Jaime Iniesta)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:41:27 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <20030409120725.8866.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c2fe95$577fa300$040010ac@jaime>

What do you want to do with this?

If you press a key inside a text field, then it already has the focus...

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de Sabrina Leandro
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 09 de abril de 2003 14:07
Para: javascript at LaTech.edu
Asunto: [Javascript] Is this right Javascript?

Hi,

Could someone tell me if this would work? Considering
there is a richtext element in a form called
formulario? 

function
window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown() {
     return SetFocus();
}

thanks,
Sabrina



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 07:57:01 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 05:57:01 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Is this right Javascript?
References: <20030409120725.8866.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3E94189B.BB0AD920@gazos.com>


I'm assuming that the object of the game is force the focus back onto 
formulario whenever a key is pressed.  (Yes? No?  Maybe?).  Very dangerous --
no way to submit the form, or jump to the next field, but doable:

Try

  <body onkeypress='document.formulario.richtext.focus()'>
 
  ....

Of course, the safest way is to attach the onkeypress event handler
to all the objects you want to be in whenever a keystroke SHOULD force
the focus.  ... assuming I haven't completely misguessed your intentions.

-- Dave Lovering

Sabrina Leandro wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Could someone tell me if this would work? Considering
> there is a richtext element in a form called
> formulario?
> 
> function
> window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown() {
>      return SetFocus();
> }
> 
> thanks,
> Sabrina
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 08:01:31 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 06:01:31 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Poorly documented facet of cross-frame execution
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20030401142004.01bd2be8@127.0.0.1><v04220801baafc7939ecc@[130.216.229.11]>
	<3E93FF0D.70300@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <3E9419A8.11251D48@gazos.com>


Actually, nothing -- you've done it correctly for instances where the routine you are invoking is defined 
in the header block.  Since (by canon) this is where external JavaScript routines should live, all is well.
This is the way I do it myself.

-- Dave Lovering

Rodney Myers wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> What, in the circumstances you describe, is wrong with
> 
> parent.frameA.foobar();
> or
> parent.frames["frameA"].foobar();
> 
> ?
> 
> Since this is what I now write, and it works, I am very interested, and
> I have no doubt you have a cogent reason.
> If necessary I will change all my code, always willing to learn
> something I did not know.
> 
> Rodney
> 
> David T. Lovering wrote:
> 
> >A number of folks have been alluding to coding structures that require invoking routines across frames (parent/child, child/parent, peer/peer), including IFRAMEs.  One of the elements that seems to be missing from the standard documentation and the
> >JavaScript/JScript RFC's (including the W3C state model) is the fact that when invoking JavaScript one must consider the placement within the target frame as to how one addresses it.
> >
> >For example, if we have two peer frames (frameA and frameB), each containing mycode1.html and mycode2.html respectively, and it is intended that mycode2.html invoke a JavaScript routine 'foobar()' which exists in a <script
> >language='JavaScript'>...</script> block in the header of mycode1.html, the following will NOT work:
> >
> >  parent.document.frames["frameA"].document.foobar();
> >
> >The reason is that the 'document' object in frameA's code module doesn't REALLY begin until it hits the <body> tag.  The correct procedure is therefore
> >
> >  parent.document.frames["frameA"].foobar();
> >
> >
> >
> <snip>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From saleandro at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 08:33:42 2003
From: saleandro at yahoo.com (Sabrina Leandro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript? 
In-Reply-To: <20030409130611.0AD1E3098D8@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I?ll try to be explain my doubt better:

Is this:
function
window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown() {
                                   return SetFocus();
}

....the same as this:
<form name=formulario>
<input type="checkbox" name="richtext"
onkeydown="foo();">
<form>
<script>
function foo(){
        return SetFocus();
}
</script>

thanks
Sabrina

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 10:56:55 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:56:55 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3E9442AA.7A2E8E30@gazos.com>


  Hmmm... fairly eclectic coding here...

  First off, every function (even a prototype constructor) must have a name.
  'function' by itself won't cut it.

  Second, in this context, 'window' and 'document' point to the same thing.

  Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although it may have
  some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized JScript).

  I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was 'onclick', which
  IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.

  I hope "SetFocus" is something you've defined, as I don't believe it exists
  in DOM-standard JavaScript.  If what you want to do is set the focus on the
  checkbox, you don't need it (as noted earlier), as the act of clicking on it
  puts it there anyway.

  If you are an old-timey X-windows programmer (or even an early Java programmer)
  you probably recall that you had to manipulate the focus depending on events
  in the window in order to 'look at' the object you clicked on.  [That's less
  true today].  However, JavaScript doesn't require it.  It won't hurt mind you,
  it's just that it doesn't actually DO anything different.

  Since the first code snippet doesn't make sense (at least to my diminished
  sensibilities), I can't say whether it SHOULD do the same as the second
  snippet.  Moreover, the second code snippet just paints a checkbox which just
  sits there and lets you click on it until the cows come home.  Nothing wrong
  with it, just nothing very useful.

  That said, exactly what were you trying to do?  If you want to build a checkbox
  handler, it can be done thusly:

  <script language='JavaScript'>
  <!--
    var theObject;
    function checkBoxHandler(theObject) {
      if (!theObject) { return -1; }
      if (theObject == '') { return -1; }
      if (theObject.nodeName != 'INPUT' || theObject.type != 'checkbox') { return -1; }

      // ... the above bits make certain you really HAVE passed this routine a pointer to a checkbox

      var theState = theObject.checked;
      var theValue = theObject.value;
      var theName = theObject.name;
      alert('checkbox \'' + theName +
            '\nhas value \'' + theValue +
            '\nin state \'' + theState);
    }
  // -->
  </script>

......

  <form name="formulario">
    <input type="checkbox" name="richtext" value="selected" onClick='checkBoxHandler(this)'>
  </form>

  Of course, my grey cells could all be on vacation...

  -- Dave Lovering


> Is this:
> function
> window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown() {
>                                    return SetFocus();
> }
> 
> ....the same as this:
> <form name=formulario>
> <input type="checkbox" name="richtext"
> onkeydown="foo();">
> <form>
> <script>
> function foo(){
>         return SetFocus();
> }
> </script>

From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 11:19:11 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:19:11 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
	<3E9442AA.7A2E8E30@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c2feb3$c19d0750$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

>   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although it may
have
>   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized JScript).
>
>   I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was 'onclick',
which
>   IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.

I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a simple
sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" javascript unless NN is
now bastardizing it too:

<form name="Test1">


<textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>

</form>


Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as long
as
you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7

Chris Tifer


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 11:27:22 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:27:22 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
Message-ID: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>



> >   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although it may
>have
> >   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized JScript).
> >
> >   I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was 'onclick',
>which
> >   IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.
>
>I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a simple 
>sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" javascript unless NN 
>is now bastardizing it too:
>
><form name="Test1">
>
>
><textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
>
></form>
>
>
>Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as long 
>as you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7

It even works in NN4.7 The Key events have been around, and well supported, 
since the Version 4 browsers.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 11:34:00 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:34:00 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201c2feb5$d35c4350$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> It even works in NN4.7 The Key events have been around, and well
supported,
> since the Version 4 browsers.

That's even better then. I just didn't expect it to work in that version...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?



> >I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a
simple
> >sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" javascript unless NN
> >is now bastardizing it too:
> >
> ><form name="Test1">
> >
> >
> ><textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
> >
> ></form>
> >
> >
> >Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as
long
> >as you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr  9 11:35:45 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:35:45 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] To everyone who wants to be removed...
In-Reply-To: <fc.69e754b669e754b6e100cf183b9aca00.5d7c5b@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEFGDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

I sympathize with the request made last week about "signal-to-noise" in the
digest form of this list (which is why i changed to individual mail,
filtered to a folder on it's way into my inbox)

The incessant "Me too" messages are pretty annoying as well.

There is a self-serve removal tool (link below)
	or
	send a message directly to
		merchant at latech.edu
		or
		javascript-owner at latech.edu

It's easy enough to get off this list, please stop pestering the rest of us
who want to stay.

(Sorry to everyone if i've overstepped my rights as a member)

-- copied from the list moderator's earlier posts --
If you wish to unsubscribe, visit
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

or send a message with the word `help' in it to the request address,
javascript-request at LaTech.edu, for further instructions.

Realize that there may be a few posts in "the pipeline" that have been
sent
to the list before you unsubscribe but haven't yet reached your inbox yet.
Thus when you unsubscribe you may still receive a few posts.



From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Wed Apr  9 12:21:02 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:21:02 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net>

Test file:

<html><head></head>
<body>
<form name="Test1">
<textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
</form>
</body></html>

This did NOT work in these browsers under WIndows XP

Netscape 4.6
Netscape 7.02
Explorer 6.0
Opera 7

<textarea onClick="alert('hello')"> worked.
<textarea onKeyPress="alert('hello')"> did not.

Since I am unfamiliar with this onkeydown event I suspect I have missed 
something vital.
If PPK says it works I believe it, but I need to know "how?"

onKeyDown seems to be the proper capitalisation, but it made no difference.


Furthermore, this file taken verbatim from "Pure Javascript" by Wyke et 
al (2nd Ed) did not work either.
in Explorer it gave the error 'Event' is undefined.

(It is a good book, but the examples on the CD were poorly proofread imho)

<html>
<head>

<script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
<!--

// Tell the browser you want to intercept ALL key press events
// on the page and then define a function to handle them.
document.captureEvents(Event.KEYPRESS);
document.onKeyPress = myKeyPressHandler;

// Define the myKeyPressHandler function to handle
// key press events.
function myKeyPressHandler(e){
  alert("A key press event took place within the document!");
}

// -->
</script>
</head>
<body>
Anytime you press a key within this document, you will
get a message alerting you that a KeyPress event has taken place.
</body>

Cliff Wootton in JavaScript Programmers Reference marks onkeydown event 
for textarea with warning and a "-" in the DOM column of the browser 
compatibility table for the textarea
Flanagan ("Rhino" 3rd ed) notes that onKeyDown is not yet part of DOM 
standard. This may have changed. (and on relflection  I would be 
embarrassed if asked to explain what that means, esp in practice)

Puzzled.....

Rodney

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:

>
>
>> >   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although 
>> it may  have
>> >   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized 
>> JScript).
>> >
>> >   I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was 
>> 'onclick',  which
>> >   IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.
>>
>> I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a 
>> simple sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" 
>> javascript unless NN is now bastardizing it too:
>>
>> <form name="Test1">
>>
>>
>> <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
>>
>> </form>
>>
>>
>> Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as 
>> long as you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7
>
>
> It even works in NN4.7 The Key events have been around, and well 
> supported, since the Version 4 browsers.





From saleandro at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 12:27:28 2003
From: saleandro at yahoo.com (Sabrina Leandro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?  
In-Reply-To: <20030409155628.F29D4309920@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <20030409172728.26920.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Dave,

This is just a code snippet I saw on a bigger script,
I wasn?t trying to understand what it does. 

I just thought it was weird to have a function called
window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown();

I?m not a big expert on programming but I?ve never
seen a function with an event name. (that *supposebly*
does the same as having a function called by an
onkeydown event on a form element - and that is *my*
supposition! I just wanted to know if it was right)

I wanted to know if it was possible to do that in
javascript or it was just crazy-programming :)

Sorry for not being too clear :)
And thanks for your help!
Sabrina



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr  9 12:41:15 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?  
In-Reply-To: <fc.f395689af395689af395689a3b9aca00.5d8ad1@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

"possible to do that in javascript or it was just crazy-programming"

In some cases, they're the same thing <g>

When i first started using javascript i was convinced it made no sense, was
arbitrarily strict about case, and generally backwards to all the VBscript
and VFP coding i'd done previously.  Now that i've been using it for a
while, i realize that all those initial observations are true - but i've
gotten comfortable with the power and flexibility of the javascript
object/event model.

I had to do some work in ASP/VBscript- and started complaining about how
much easier some of the javascript constructs are to use...

  I wonder if multi-lingual speakers have the same kinds of problems talking
as multi-lingual developers have writing mixed language applications.
(what's the syntax for a comment again?  //, /* */, ', --, *, && )

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:27 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?


Hi Dave,

This is just a code snippet I saw on a bigger script,
I wasn?t trying to understand what it does.

I just thought it was weird to have a function called
window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown();

I?m not a big expert on programming but I?ve never
seen a function with an event name. (that *supposebly*
does the same as having a function called by an
onkeydown event on a form element - and that is *my*
supposition! I just wanted to know if it was right)

I wanted to know if it was possible to do that in
javascript or it was just crazy-programming :)

Sorry for not being too clear :)
And thanks for your help!
Sabrina



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From bader at tcbader.com  Wed Apr  9 12:42:01 2003
From: bader at tcbader.com (Terry)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:42:01 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?  
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner>

you forgot <!-- --> and #
=^P

~ Terry
757 581-5981
AIM/Yahoo: lv2bounce


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?


> "possible to do that in javascript or it was just crazy-programming"
>
> In some cases, they're the same thing <g>
>
> When i first started using javascript i was convinced it made no sense,
was
> arbitrarily strict about case, and generally backwards to all the VBscript
> and VFP coding i'd done previously.  Now that i've been using it for a
> while, i realize that all those initial observations are true - but i've
> gotten comfortable with the power and flexibility of the javascript
> object/event model.
>
> I had to do some work in ASP/VBscript- and started complaining about how
> much easier some of the javascript constructs are to use...
>
>   I wonder if multi-lingual speakers have the same kinds of problems
talking
> as multi-lingual developers have writing mixed language applications.
> (what's the syntax for a comment again?  //, /* */, ', --, *, && )
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:27 PM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> This is just a code snippet I saw on a bigger script,
> I wasn?t trying to understand what it does.
>
> I just thought it was weird to have a function called
> window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown();
>
> I?m not a big expert on programming but I?ve never
> seen a function with an event name. (that *supposebly*
> does the same as having a function called by an
> onkeydown event on a form element - and that is *my*
> supposition! I just wanted to know if it was right)
>
> I wanted to know if it was possible to do that in
> javascript or it was just crazy-programming :)
>
> Sorry for not being too clear :)
> And thanks for your help!
> Sabrina
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>



From bader at tcbader.com  Wed Apr  9 12:45:55 2003
From: bader at tcbader.com (Terry)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:45:55 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
	(verification)
References: <12874532.1049910405971.JavaMail.root@m5>
Message-ID: <009001c2febf$dfb47730$267110ac@roadrunner>

Spam Arrest Sender Verificationwhen are we going to close this list to member postings only?!   we are getting way to much spam crap on here....

~ Terry
757 581-5981
AIM/Yahoo: lv2bounce


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Tanya Renne 
To: bader at tcbader.com 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript? (verification)


Tanya Renne here,

I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.


Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You won't have to do this again. 

http://spamarrest.com/a?74519803:685328 





 
You are receiving this message in response to your email to Tanya Renne, a Spam Arrest customer. 

Spam Arrest requests that senders verify themselves before their email is delivered. 

When you click the above link, you will be taken to a page with a graphic on it. Simply read the word in the graphic, type it into the form, and you're verified. 

You will only need to do this once per Spam Arrest customer. 

Webmasters help stop spam and make 50%.
http://spamarrest.com/affiliates 

------------------------------------------------------------ 
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From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 12:53:05 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:53:05 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
	<3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <007001c2fec0$dfff1f50$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Hmmmm. I'm on Win 2000 and it works in all but the NN 4.6 (which
I don't have to test, but as I suggested earlier, I didn't expect it to work
with that version).

I'll have to take a look at it on my XP machine at home. If it works
for me on that machine, it might depend more on which versions of
JScript we have installed. Just because we have the same browser
versions does not mean we have the same script builds, right?

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney Myers" <rodney at aflyingstart.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?


> Test file:
>
> <html><head></head>
> <body>
> <form name="Test1">
> <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
> </form>
> </body></html>
>
> This did NOT work in these browsers under WIndows XP
>
> Netscape 4.6
> Netscape 7.02
> Explorer 6.0
> Opera 7
>
> <textarea onClick="alert('hello')"> worked.
> <textarea onKeyPress="alert('hello')"> did not.
>
> Since I am unfamiliar with this onkeydown event I suspect I have missed
> something vital.
> If PPK says it works I believe it, but I need to know "how?"
>
> onKeyDown seems to be the proper capitalisation, but it made no
difference.
>
>
> Furthermore, this file taken verbatim from "Pure Javascript" by Wyke et
> al (2nd Ed) did not work either.
> in Explorer it gave the error 'Event' is undefined.
>
> (It is a good book, but the examples on the CD were poorly proofread imho)
>
> <html>
> <head>
>
> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
> <!--
>
> // Tell the browser you want to intercept ALL key press events
> // on the page and then define a function to handle them.
> document.captureEvents(Event.KEYPRESS);
> document.onKeyPress = myKeyPressHandler;
>
> // Define the myKeyPressHandler function to handle
> // key press events.
> function myKeyPressHandler(e){
>   alert("A key press event took place within the document!");
> }
>
> // -->
> </script>
> </head>
> <body>
> Anytime you press a key within this document, you will
> get a message alerting you that a KeyPress event has taken place.
> </body>
>
> Cliff Wootton in JavaScript Programmers Reference marks onkeydown event
> for textarea with warning and a "-" in the DOM column of the browser
> compatibility table for the textarea
> Flanagan ("Rhino" 3rd ed) notes that onKeyDown is not yet part of DOM
> standard. This may have changed. (and on relflection  I would be
> embarrassed if asked to explain what that means, esp in practice)
>
> Puzzled.....
>
> Rodney
>
> Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> >   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although
> >> it may  have
> >> >   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized
> >> JScript).
> >> >
> >> >   I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was
> >> 'onclick',  which
> >> >   IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.
> >>
> >> I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a
> >> simple sample would show you this is not some "bastardized"
> >> javascript unless NN is now bastardizing it too:
> >>
> >> <form name="Test1">
> >>
> >>
> >> <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
> >>
> >> </form>
> >>
> >>
> >> Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as
> >> long as you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7
> >
> >
> > It even works in NN4.7 The Key events have been around, and well
> > supported, since the Version 4 browsers.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Wed Apr  9 12:56:01 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:56:01 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net>
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
	<3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <3E945EB1.9080709@webtuitive.com>

Rodney Myers wrote:
> Test file:
> 
> <html><head></head>
> <body>
> <form name="Test1">
> <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
> </form>
> </body></html>
> 
> This did NOT work in these browsers under WIndows XP
> 
> Netscape 4.6
> Netscape 7.02
> Explorer 6.0
> Opera 7

But that exact file worked fine under Windows 2000 on

IE 5.5
NS 4.78
Moz 1.3b
Opera 7

> Since I am unfamiliar with this onkeydown event I suspect I have missed 
> something vital.

Sounds like *something's* wrong there; BTW, the 'onkeydown' event
handler (no CamelCasing!) is listed in my 1997 copy of the Netscape
JavaScript 1.2 Programmer's Reference, so it's not exactly a new
thing :-)

FWIW!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Wed Apr  9 12:57:06 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:57:06 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
  (verification)
In-Reply-To: <009001c2febf$dfb47730$267110ac@roadrunner>
References: <12874532.1049910405971.JavaMail.root@m5>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030409125256.027e6810@mail.latech.edu>

At 01:45 PM 4/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>when are we going to close this list to member postings only?!   we are 
>getting way to much spam crap on here....
>
>~ Terry
>757 581-5981
>AIM/Yahoo: lv2bounce
>
Snip

>I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.
>
>Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You 
>won't have to do this again.

Actually this person is a member, but this spamarrest that they are using 
isn't working like advertised apparently since the "you won't have to do 
this again" is untrue.

I will set their account to nomail and email them privately about this, 
that they need to get spamarrest to work.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From bader at tcbader.com  Wed Apr  9 13:04:23 2003
From: bader at tcbader.com (Terry)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:04:23 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
	(verification)
References: <12874532.1049910405971.JavaMail.root@m5>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20030409125256.027e6810@mail.latech.edu>
Message-ID: <002401c2fec2$74776f10$267110ac@roadrunner>

yea, i understand that...  its all crap combined...  

but i am not going to add myself to Tanya's service...  just another service that will collect emails to send out more spam i am sure...

*scratches head*

that gives me an idea ;)


~ Terry
757 581-5981
AIM/Yahoo: lv2bounce


----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Merchant 
To: [JavaScript List] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript? (verification)


At 01:45 PM 4/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:

  when are we going to close this list to member postings only?!   we are getting way to much spam crap on here....

  ~ Terry
  757 581-5981
  AIM/Yahoo: lv2bounce
   
Snip


  I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.

  Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You won't have to do this again. 

Actually this person is a member, but this spamarrest that they are using isn't working like advertised apparently since the "you won't have to do this again" is untrue. 

I will set their account to nomail and email them privately about this, that they need to get spamarrest to work.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology 
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University 
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272 
Tel: (318) 257-4772 
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
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From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Wed Apr  9 13:10:34 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:10:34 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] To everyone who wants to be removed...
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEFGDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
References: <fc.69e754b669e754b6e100cf183b9aca00.5d7c5b@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030409130356.0280ac10@mail.latech.edu>

At 12:35 PM 4/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>I sympathize with the request made last week about "signal-to-noise" in the
>digest form of this list (which is why i changed to individual mail,
>filtered to a folder on it's way into my inbox)
>
>The incessant "Me too" messages are pretty annoying as well.

I agree with that.

I've refined the list filter, before emails that had subscribe or 
unsubscribe in the subject line would get sent to me and not the list, I've 
expanded that to include any emails that have "remove" or "remove me" in 
the subject header. That should cut down that noise.

If anyone has a javascript scripting problem like "how do I remove an 
element" or "removeChild()" and uses that in the subject header, don't 
worry, those messages will get through, I'll just have to approve them so 
it may mean a delay in their getting to the list, so bear that in mind when 
writing your subject headers (one reason why I am conservative on 
filtering...).

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 13:12:14 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:12:14 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] GOES WAY OT: Re: Re: Re: Is this right
	Javascript?(verification)
References: 	<12874532.1049910405971.JavaMail.root@m5><5.1.0.14.2.20030409125256.027e6810@mail.latech.edu>
	<002401c2fec2$74776f10$267110ac@roadrunner>
Message-ID: <00cd01c2fec3$8cdae9f0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Something we can code ;-)

You know what I hate most? The e-mails that tell me that can kill those 
pop-up ads (which they call spam), but did I ask for this e-mail?  Noooooo...

I guess it's not spam if it doesn't pop-up...

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com

   just another service that will collect emails to send out more spam i am sure...

  *scratches head*

  that gives me an idea ;)
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From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Wed Apr  9 13:28:44 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:28:44 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
	<3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net> <007001c2fec0$dfff1f50$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3E94665C.6010302@aflyingstart.net>

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for your trouble.

I feel a complete fool!
I was testing with mouseclicks
The event worked with a keypress of a letter. (even ion NN4.6)

However the Pure Javascript example still did NOT work and gave the same 
error.

Rodney


Chris Tifer wrote:

>Hmmmm. I'm on Win 2000 and it works in all but the NN 4.6 (which
>I don't have to test, but as I suggested earlier, I didn't expect it to work
>with that version).
>
>I'll have to take a look at it on my XP machine at home. If it works
>for me on that machine, it might depend more on which versions of
>JScript we have installed. Just because we have the same browser
>versions does not mean we have the same script builds, right?
>
>Chris Tifer
>http://www.emailajoke.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rodney Myers" <rodney at aflyingstart.net>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
>
>
>  
>
>>Test file:
>>
>><html><head></head>
>><body>
>><form name="Test1">
>><textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
>></form>
>></body></html>
>>
>>This did NOT work in these browsers under WIndows XP
>>
>>Netscape 4.6
>>Netscape 7.02
>>Explorer 6.0
>>Opera 7
>>
>><textarea onClick="alert('hello')"> worked.
>><textarea onKeyPress="alert('hello')"> did not.
>>
>>Since I am unfamiliar with this onkeydown event I suspect I have missed
>>something vital.
>>If PPK says it works I believe it, but I need to know "how?"
>>
>>onKeyDown seems to be the proper capitalisation, but it made no
>>    
>>
>difference.
>  
>
>>Furthermore, this file taken verbatim from "Pure Javascript" by Wyke et
>>al (2nd Ed) did not work either.
>>in Explorer it gave the error 'Event' is undefined.
>>
>>(It is a good book, but the examples on the CD were poorly proofread imho)
>>
>><html>
>><head>
>>
>><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
>><!--
>>
>>// Tell the browser you want to intercept ALL key press events
>>// on the page and then define a function to handle them.
>>document.captureEvents(Event.KEYPRESS);
>>document.onKeyPress = myKeyPressHandler;
>>
>>// Define the myKeyPressHandler function to handle
>>// key press events.
>>function myKeyPressHandler(e){
>>  alert("A key press event took place within the document!");
>>}
>>
>>// -->
>></script>
>></head>
>><body>
>>Anytime you press a key within this document, you will
>>get a message alerting you that a KeyPress event has taken place.
>></body>
>>
>>Cliff Wootton in JavaScript Programmers Reference marks onkeydown event
>>for textarea with warning and a "-" in the DOM column of the browser
>>compatibility table for the textarea
>>Flanagan ("Rhino" 3rd ed) notes that onKeyDown is not yet part of DOM
>>standard. This may have changed. (and on relflection  I would be
>>embarrassed if asked to explain what that means, esp in practice)
>>
>>Puzzled.....
>>
>>Rodney
>>
>>Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>  Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>it may  have
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>  some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>JScript).
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>  I suspect the event you were attempting to intercept was
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>'onclick',  which
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>  IS defined, and actually makes sense for a checkbox.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a
>>>>simple sample would show you this is not some "bastardized"
>>>>javascript unless NN is now bastardizing it too:
>>>>
>>>><form name="Test1">
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
>>>>
>>>></form>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Put that on a page and view it in NN and you'll see it works fine, as
>>>>long as you're not using the ultimate in bastardized browsers - NN4.7
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It even works in NN4.7 The Key events have been around, and well
>>>supported, since the Version 4 browsers.
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Javascript mailing list
>>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>  
>

-- 
PS. I have just bought a licence for Mike Chen's
BizAutomator. If you have to answer routine 
email queries from your sites or mailings then
you need this as much as I do. 
http://www.BizAutomator.com/rlbm51 

Rodney





From hassan at webtuitive.com  Wed Apr  9 13:46:48 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:46:48 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <3E94665C.6010302@aflyingstart.net>
References: <F49viM0jB06F2LPJRtW000062f5@hotmail.com>
	<3E94567E.2020404@aflyingstart.net> <007001c2fec0$dfff1f50$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<3E94665C.6010302@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <3E946A98.8040902@webtuitive.com>

Rodney Myers wrote:

> However the Pure Javascript example still did NOT work and gave the same 
> error.

>>> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
>>> <!--
>>>
>>> // Tell the browser you want to intercept ALL key press events
>>> // on the page and then define a function to handle them.
>>> document.captureEvents(Event.KEYPRESS);
>>> document.onKeyPress = myKeyPressHandler;

document.onkeypress -- not CamelCased  -- works in NS4 and Moz,
though not IE ...

>>> // Define the myKeyPressHandler function to handle
>>> // key press events.
>>> function myKeyPressHandler(e){
>>>  alert("A key press event took place within the document!");
>>> }
>>>
>>> // -->
>>> </script>
>>> </head>
>>> <body>
>>> Anytime you press a key within this document, you will
>>> get a message alerting you that a KeyPress event has taken place.
>>> </body>

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 13:53:13 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:53:13 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <F13dZ6VzvdrEb6MXb0z0003e457@hotmail.com>
	<010701c2fe1e$87519560$18e8adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <002b01c2fec9$466215b0$0500000a@arcana>

Having tried a number of various implementations suggested by different
people, I thought I'd report on the preliminary results:

  Andrew's Suggestion:

> <a href=javascript:parent.frames['hidden'].getData()><Get data from
server</a>
>
> and then in the hidden frame have the function populate a form and post
it.
> Then whenever data i get from the server, I write to a <div> or whatever
on
> the main page from the hidden frame.

Works great -- but only if the routine 'getData' is in fact JavaScript.
Doesn't work at all if the code is ASP, PHP, or
whatever server-side language is the lingo de jour.  Hardly seems worth it,
since I can "src" my JavaScript routines
directly into my header anyhow.

<span id='wrapper' style='display: none'><iframe id='myPHPcode'
src=''></iframe></span>

.... elsewhere ....

<input type='button' name='myButton' value='push me!'
onClick='myPHPcode.src="bogus.php"; wrapper.style.display="inline"'>

Doesn't work, but in a very strange way.  The .src redefinition works (as
can be seen by doing a post-mortem dump of the attributes), but the
wrapper.style.display change only shows an empty frame, and the embedded
code doesn't execute.  On the other hand, if one reduces the span definition
to

<span id='wrapper' style='display: none'><iframe id='myPHPcode'
src='bogus.php'></iframe></span>

and modifying the input 'onClick' handler to be merely

  onClick='wrapper.style.display="inline"'

then it displays as you'd expect, and the embedded PHP (or whatever) code
appears to have run once.

HOWEVER (!!!) the operable word here is 'once'.  The server-side code (true
of all the languages I tested) when embedded in a DIV or SPAN, FRAME or
IFRAME executes only upon load, and then never again.  Getting it to trigger
on another event (onMouseDown, for example) appears not to work.  Moreover,
when you try to roll the
display update directive and the src redirection together, it doesn't fly.
Maybe I'm dim, but it looks like something is missing...

The only way I've beaten this in the past is to foist the server code I
wanted to execute into a remote, and then backwards reference the output
back to the parent window.  UGLY!

Lest folks think I haven't cogitated about this, be it known that I even
tried to fake a load event by attaching a
fireEvent("onload") to the span and/or the iframe, and then kick it
subsequently.  No cigar.  Not only does it appear that this is not
syntactically correct, but even when the object constructors are jiggered to
force acceptance, it doesn't work.

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

-- Dave Lovering





From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 14:07:24 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:07:24 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: <20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
	<000e01c2feb3$c19d0750$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3E946F36.E8C9E043@gazos.com>


Anything which isn't in an international standards document and is proprietary
to one vendor/development tree is "bastardized" to my way of thinking.

"onkeydown" and a number of other useful events do indeed work in late-model
Netscape/Mozilla derivations, but so do the 'standards' defined by the HTML4.0
SG and others. Just between you, me, and the fence-post, if I have a choice
between using something that ports and something that doesn't, I'll take the
portable event description every time.  [Also known as "The Lazy Man's Creed"].
When these calls are ported everywhere uniformly, I'll be glad to adopt them
and defend them in public.

-- Dave Lovering

Chris Tifer wrote:

> >   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although it may have
> >   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized JScript).

> I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a simple
> sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" javascript unless NN is
> now bastardizing it too:

> <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>

...<snip>

From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 14:18:42 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:18:42 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: 	<20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com><000e01c2feb3$c19d0750$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<3E946F36.E8C9E043@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c2fecc$d566c1e0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Okay...

But the thing is, I think we've determined this isn't bastardized.  It's
accepted
way back to NN4. All the newer browsers implement these events also.

Chris Tifer


----- Original Message -----
From: "David T. Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Is this right Javascript?


>
> Anything which isn't in an international standards document and is
proprietary
> to one vendor/development tree is "bastardized" to my way of thinking.
>
> "onkeydown" and a number of other useful events do indeed work in
late-model
> Netscape/Mozilla derivations, but so do the 'standards' defined by the
HTML4.0
> SG and others. Just between you, me, and the fence-post, if I have a
choice
> between using something that ports and something that doesn't, I'll take
the
> portable event description every time.  [Also known as "The Lazy Man's
Creed"].
> When these calls are ported everywhere uniformly, I'll be glad to adopt
them
> and defend them in public.
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> Chris Tifer wrote:
>
> > >   Third, 'onkeydown' is undefined for normal JavaScript (although it
may have
> > >   some bizarre other-worldly existence in M$oft's bastardized
JScript).
>
> > I know it's cool to bash Microsoft whenever the chance arises, but a
simple
> > sample would show you this is not some "bastardized" javascript unless
NN is
> > now bastardizing it too:
>
> > <textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
>
> ...<snip>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 14:45:28 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:45:28 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
Message-ID: <F69wvCLDlSOBN8xK2ef000118d1@hotmail.com>



>Test file:
>
><html><head></head>
><body>
><form name="Test1">
><textarea onkeydown="alert('hello')"></textarea>
></form>
></body></html>
>
>This did NOT work in these browsers under WIndows XP
>
>Netscape 4.6
>Netscape 7.02
>Explorer 6.0
>Opera 7
>
><textarea onClick="alert('hello')"> worked.
><textarea onKeyPress="alert('hello')"> did not.

Very odd. Tested in NN4.7, Moz1.3, Op7 and IE6, also under WinXP, and it 
worked perfectly for me.

>Since I am unfamiliar with this onkeydown event I suspect I have missed 
>something vital.
>If PPK says it works I believe it, but I need to know "how?"
>
>onKeyDown seems to be the proper capitalisation, but it made no difference.

HTML attributes are case insensitive, so capitalization doesn't matter.

><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
><!--
>
>// Tell the browser you want to intercept ALL key press events
>// on the page and then define a function to handle them.
>document.captureEvents(Event.KEYPRESS);
>document.onKeyPress = myKeyPressHandler;

This is JavaScript and thus case sensitive. Should be

document.onkeypress = myKeyPressHandler;

Also, the captureEvents will give an error message in all browsers except 
for NN4.7 . I'm afraid this example is not very well tested.

>Cliff Wootton in JavaScript Programmers Reference marks onkeydown event for 
>textarea with warning and a "-" in the DOM column of the browser 
>compatibility table for the textarea
>Flanagan ("Rhino" 3rd ed) notes that onKeyDown is not yet part of DOM 
>standard. This may have changed. (and on relflection  I would be 
>embarrassed if asked to explain what that means, esp in practice)

Nope, hasn't changed yet, but that doesn't prevent the event from being well 
supported.


ppk


_________________________________________________________________
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From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 14:49:01 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:49:01 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
Message-ID: <F47rGvnCjnZS08i7M4B000079b6@hotmail.com>



>This is just a code snippet I saw on a bigger script,
>I wasn?t trying to understand what it does.
>
>I just thought it was weird to have a function called
>window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown();
>
>I?m not a big expert on programming but I?ve never
>seen a function with an event name.

Actually this is a correct JavaScript function. It commands the keydown 
event handler of the richtext element of the formulario form of the docuemnt 
to be executed. It does assume that such an event handler is defined.

In my last project I actually called onclick event handlers of radio buttons 
in such a way, but generally you'll hardly use it.

(that *supposebly*
>does the same as having a function called by an
>onkeydown event on a form element - and that is *my*
>supposition! I just wanted to know if it was right)

Yep, completely correct.


--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
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From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 14:55:18 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:55:18 +0000
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
Message-ID: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>



> > <a href=javascript:parent.frames['hidden'].getData()><Get data from
>server</a>
> >
> > and then in the hidden frame have the function populate a form and post
>it.
> > Then whenever data i get from the server, I write to a <div> or whatever
>on
> > the main page from the hidden frame.
>
>Works great -- but only if the routine 'getData' is in fact JavaScript.
>Doesn't work at all if the code is ASP, PHP, or
>whatever server-side language is the lingo de jour.  Hardly seems worth it, 
>since I can "src" my JavaScript routines directly into my header anyhow.
>
><span id='wrapper' style='display: none'><iframe id='myPHPcode'
>src=''></iframe></span>
>
>.... elsewhere ....
>
><input type='button' name='myButton' value='push me!'
>onClick='myPHPcode.src="bogus.php"; wrapper.style.display="inline"'>
>
>Doesn't work, but in a very strange way.  The .src redefinition works (as
>can be seen by doing a post-mortem dump of the attributes), but the
>wrapper.style.display change only shows an empty frame, and the embedded 
>code doesn't execute.  On the other hand, if one reduces the span 
>definition to

I *think* that's because the browser encounters an error when it tries to 
execute the myPHPcode.src . .src is generally not a reliable way to refresh 
an iframe. See http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?iframe.html for the 
gory details. Conclusion: use

frames['myPHPcode'].location.href = 'bogus.php';

><span id='wrapper' style='display: none'><iframe id='myPHPcode'
>src='bogus.php'></iframe></span>
>
>and modifying the input 'onClick' handler to be merely
>
>   onClick='wrapper.style.display="inline"'
>
>then it displays as you'd expect, and the embedded PHP (or whatever) code
>appears to have run once.

You directly assign a src to the iframe, which *is* allowed.

>HOWEVER (!!!) the operable word here is 'once'.  The server-side code (true 
>of all the languages I tested) when embedded in a DIV or SPAN, FRAME or 
>IFRAME executes only upon load, and then never again.  Getting it to 
>trigger on another event (onMouseDown, for example) appears not to work.  
>Moreover, when you try to roll the display update directive and the src 
>redirection together, it doesn't fly. Maybe I'm dim, but it looks like 
>something is missing...

See above.

>Lest folks think I haven't cogitated about this, be it known that I even 
>tried to fake a load event by attaching a
>fireEvent("onload") to the span and/or the iframe, and then kick it
>subsequently.  No cigar.  Not only does it appear that this is not
>syntactically correct, but even when the object constructors are jiggered 
>to force acceptance, it doesn't work.

fireEvent is IE5.5+ Windows only. Moreover, assigning event handlers to 
documents inside iframes is unexplored territory. I've heard reports that 
it's not really possible, but haven't tested it myself yet.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


From dev at qroute.net  Wed Apr  9 15:03:38 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:03:38 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
	<006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner>
Message-ID: <000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

If I have an image like this
<img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>

How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the browser
?

is there something like this such as
alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???













From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 15:16:13 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:16:13 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: 	<NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com><006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner>
	<000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <003d01c2fed4$de54b390$0500000a@arcana>

Finally!  A question I can answer without blushing...

document.all.image1.bottom
document.all.image1.height
document.all.image1.left
document.all.image1.maxHeight
document.all.image1.maxWidth
document.all.image1.minHeight
document.all.image1.minWidth
document.all.image1.position    (static, relative, absolute, fixed, or
inherit)
document.all.image1.Right
document.all.image1.Top
document.all.image1.verticalAlign
document.all.image1.Width
document.all.image1.zIndex

All but the last attribute and position are either a length value,
percentage, or symbolic value.  The symbolic values which generally port are
{inherit, auto, none}.  The zIndex is either a layer number (zIndex) or else
{auto, inherit}.

Which ones are actually used depends a lot on the web-page, which browser
you are using, and whether or not the
frame/window geometry is fixed or resizeable.  Try them all!  Show your
friends!

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image


> If I have an image like this
> <img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>
>
> How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the
browser
> ?
>
> is there something like this such as
> alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  9 15:19:28 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:19:28 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
Message-ID: <F365FPhTQJYpSxiAzFP00007cdc@hotmail.com>



>If I have an image like this
><img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>
>
>How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the 
>browser
>?
>
>is there something like this such as
>alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???

See http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?findpos.html

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr  9 15:32:22 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:32:22 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: 	<NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com><006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner>
	<000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <002001c2fed7$20718710$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Here's a function I use when I want to determine the cropping regions
of an image online. Pay particularly close attention to my do loop which
walks up the document tree from that point and checks the offsetLeft and
offsetTop which is always the distance from the parent element.  So, say you
had 3 tables, each inside the other, with an image in the last table...
It'll
take into account how far the offset is and add those values up until it
reaches the BODY - the last parent element.

Hope that helps,

Chris Tifer


-------------------------------

 function defineCropRegion(){
  var objForm = document.forms['imageForm']
  var objElX = objForm.elements['cropRegionX']
  var objElY = objForm.elements['cropRegionY']
  var objItem = document.getElementById("editImage")
  var objParent = null
  var intX = 0
  var intY = 0
  do
   { // Walk up our document tree until we find the body
    // and add the distance from the parent to our counter.
    intX += objItem.offsetLeft
    intY += objItem.offsetTop
    objParent = objItem.offsetParent.tagName
    objItem = objItem.offsetParent
   }
  while(objParent != 'BODY')


  var myScrollX
  var myScrollY
  (isIE) ? myScrollX = document.body.scrollLeft: myScrollX =
window.pageXOffset;
  (isIE) ? myScrollY = document.body.scrollTop: myScrollY =
window.pageYOffset;

  var intCRLeft = objCropRegion.offsetLeft - myScrollX
  var intCRTop = objCropRegion.offsetTop - myScrollY
  var intImgLeft = intX - myScrollX
  var intImgTop = intY - myScrollY




  objElX.value =  (intCRLeft - intImgLeft) + "," + ((intCRLeft +
objCropRegion.offsetWidth) - intImgLeft)
  objElY.value = (intCRTop - intImgTop) + "," + ((intCRTop +
objCropRegion.offsetHeight) - intImgTop)
  window.status = "Done"
 }

-------------------------------

 PS - It might not look like much, but this is a really cool script if you
saw it in action...
It highlights the image and when you are done selecting the region, I use
some
server-side component to crop the image. Works SWEET!!!!


----- Original Message -----
From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 4:03 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image


> If I have an image like this
> <img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>
>
> How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the
browser
> ?
>
> is there something like this such as
> alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr  9 15:32:28 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:32:28 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences
	wit
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004401c2fed7$24e44a80$0500000a@arcana>

<snip>

  cute -- I never imagined using an alert in combination with a href
declaration to float non-JavaScript code in an IFRAME...  [probably has
length limits though --- the garbage collection routine for alert is pretty
anemic].

  Much salivating to follow.

  About the only quibble I'd care to levy is that in the newest DOM RFC's
the 'id' is being touted as the definitive
identifier over that of 'name'.  Admittedly, the NetScape/Mozilla crowd has
pretty much gone the other way.
As I generally use both name and id on everything (and ALWAYS the same for
each!), I've never gotten burned.

  I've found you can do event handling inside frames, iframes and the
like -- but you have to be exceedingly careful as to where you reference the
handling scripts, etc.  The scripts I'm working on right now have a bunch of
conventional frames, one of which has a whole slew of iframes, each of which
has its own document with multiple embedded forms.  As I try to build around
reuseable modules wherever possible, I redirect everything to a standard
library which is invoked at the parent window level.  Boy, do those DOM
references get long and ugly!  ... But it works like a champ!
I can fireEvents all through the down-referenced code, and even (where
necessary) to some of the up-referenced code as well.  I'm sure the syntax
Nazi's would shit bricks if they saw how convoluted all these references
are, but it seems to
be the only way to make it happen.

-- Dave Lovering



From saleandro at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 15:39:20 2003
From: saleandro at yahoo.com (Sabrina Leandro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <20030409203051.1E04A309A35@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <20030409203920.72692.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Peter-Paul! It was very helpful.

Sabrina

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:49:01 +0000
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Re: Re: Is this right
Javascript?
To: javascript at LaTech.edu
Message-ID: <F47rGvnCjnZS08i7M4B000079b6 at hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>This is just a code snippet I saw on a bigger script,
>I wasn?t trying to understand what it does.
>
>I just thought it was weird to have a function called
>window.document.formulario.richtext.onkeydown();
>
>I?m not a big expert on programming but I?ve never
>seen a function with an event name.

Actually this is a correct JavaScript function. It
commands the keydown 
event handler of the richtext element of the
formulario form of the 
docuemnt 
to be executed. It does assume that such an event
handler is defined.

In my last project I actually called onclick event
handlers of radio 
buttons 
in such a way, but generally you'll hardly use it.

(that *supposebly*
>does the same as having a function called by an
>onkeydown event on a form element - and that is *my*
>supposition! I just wanted to know if it was right)

Yep, completely correct.



__________________________________________________
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From info at innerlab.com  Wed Apr  9 16:42:38 2003
From: info at innerlab.com (info.innerlab.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:42:38 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Unsubscribe requests
References: <01C2FEE6.1D1761C0.tony.browne@ecascgb.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001301c2fee0$f3095640$b67ba8c0@h5h8s8>

Hello:

I know that there are some technical problems with
the list right now, but at least it seems to be an active list.
And that means, in the end, more help for the subscribers
when they need it :)

Ed. 




From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Wed Apr  9 20:41:25 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:41:25 +1200
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences wit
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <009a01c2ff02$4cba9930$76e7adcb@k1n8i8>

> > <a href=javascript:parent.frames['hidden'].getData()><Get data from
>server</a>
> >
>
>Works great -- but only if the routine 'getData' is in fact JavaScript.
>Doesn't work at all if the code is ASP, PHP, or
>whatever server-side language is the lingo de jour.  Hardly seems worth it,
>since I can "src" my JavaScript routines directly into my header anyhow.
>

I thought that was the point....have a javascript function facilitate
accessing the server AFTER the page has loaded, via user interaction on the
page, without refreshing the page.....eg to send an email...add stuff to a
database.....perhaps I missed the bus again though !



From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Wed Apr  9 20:50:32 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:50:32 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Is this right Javascript?
References: 	<20030409133342.69829.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com><000e01c2feb3$c19d0750$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><3E946F36.E8C9E043@gazos.com>
	<001b01c2fecc$d566c1e0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <00bb01c2ff03$93055460$76e7adcb@k1n8i8>

It would be an enhancement if all the other non ie browsers went out of
existence quite frankly. I'd guess that none have the same sort of
sophistication as MSIE. Think of all the rich features on sites we're
missing out on because we have to cater for all...and most coders don't do
that anyway, only the top 2 IE and NS. Not only that, I suspect the
development of IE is hindered because they're not sure how supportive coders
are.

> Anything which isn't in an international standards document and is
proprietary
> to one vendor/development tree is "bastardized" to my way of thinking.
>
> "onkeydown" and a number of other useful events do indeed work in
late-model
> Netscape/Mozilla derivations, but so do the 'standards' defined by the
HTML4.0




From dev at qroute.net  Thu Apr 10 01:28:03 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:28:03 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: 	<NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com><006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner><000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
	<003d01c2fed4$de54b390$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <000a01c2ff2a$5784de70$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

I have the following code. And I tried the .Top , I get an undefined.  .What
is the problem ? timing ? .Is it too fast to  query the top ?

document.write ("<img id=XYlocator name=XYlocator src='trans.gif'>")
document.write (document.all.XYlocator.Top)

====================================



> Finally!  A question I can answer without blushing...
>
> document.all.image1.bottom
> document.all.image1.height
> document.all.image1.left
> document.all.image1.maxHeight
> document.all.image1.maxWidth
> document.all.image1.minHeight
> document.all.image1.minWidth
> document.all.image1.position    (static, relative, absolute, fixed, or
> inherit)
> document.all.image1.Right
> document.all.image1.Top
> document.all.image1.verticalAlign
> document.all.image1.Width
> document.all.image1.zIndex
>
> All but the last attribute and position are either a length value,
> percentage, or symbolic value.  The symbolic values which generally port
are
> {inherit, auto, none}.  The zIndex is either a layer number (zIndex) or
else
> {auto, inherit}.
>
> Which ones are actually used depends a lot on the web-page, which browser
> you are using, and whether or not the
> frame/window geometry is fixed or resizeable.  Try them all!  Show your
> friends!
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
>
>
> > If I have an image like this
> > <img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>
> >
> > How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the
> browser
> > ?
> >
> > is there something like this such as
> > alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dev at qroute.net  Thu Apr 10 01:39:32 2003
From: dev at qroute.net (DEV)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:39:32 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: 	<NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com><006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner><000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001><003d01c2fed4$de54b390$0500000a@arcana>
	<000a01c2ff2a$5784de70$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <001101c2ff2b$f1f05010$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>

Well,, document.images[0].offsetLeft just  did the job right ? Is the Left
and offsetLeft gives me the same value ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image


> I have the following code. And I tried the .Top , I get an undefined.
.What
> is the problem ? timing ? .Is it too fast to  query the top ?
>
> document.write ("<img id=XYlocator name=XYlocator src='trans.gif'>")
> document.write (document.all.XYlocator.Top)
>
> ====================================
>
>
>
> > Finally!  A question I can answer without blushing...
> >
> > document.all.image1.bottom
> > document.all.image1.height
> > document.all.image1.left
> > document.all.image1.maxHeight
> > document.all.image1.maxWidth
> > document.all.image1.minHeight
> > document.all.image1.minWidth
> > document.all.image1.position    (static, relative, absolute, fixed, or
> > inherit)
> > document.all.image1.Right
> > document.all.image1.Top
> > document.all.image1.verticalAlign
> > document.all.image1.Width
> > document.all.image1.zIndex
> >
> > All but the last attribute and position are either a length value,
> > percentage, or symbolic value.  The symbolic values which generally port
> are
> > {inherit, auto, none}.  The zIndex is either a layer number (zIndex) or
> else
> > {auto, inherit}.
> >
> > Which ones are actually used depends a lot on the web-page, which
browser
> > you are using, and whether or not the
> > frame/window geometry is fixed or resizeable.  Try them all!  Show your
> > friends!
> >
> > -- Dave Lovering
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DEV" <dev at qroute.net>
> > To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
> >
> >
> > > If I have an image like this
> > > <img id=image1 src='anImage.gif'>
> > >
> > > How do I get the top / left properties of that image relative to the
> > browser
> > > ?
> > >
> > > is there something like this such as
> > > alert(document.all.image1.top.value) ???
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 10 01:47:08 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:47:08 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
Message-ID: <F57VFrN5UIFPueBoLIN00010186@hotmail.com>



>I have the following code. And I tried the .Top , I get an undefined.  
>.What is the problem ? timing ? .Is it too fast to  query the top ?
>
>document.write ("<img id=XYlocator name=XYlocator src='trans.gif'>")
>document.write (document.all.XYlocator.Top)

This won't work at all. First document.all is IE only, secondly 'Top' should 
be 'top', thirdly the image doesn't (yet) have a top style.

To find the element's position, use the script on the page I sent earlier.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Thu Apr 10 02:08:07 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:08:07 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image
References: 	<NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEFKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com><006b01c2febf$542f2660$267110ac@roadrunner><000801c2fed3$1c6c2840$9dfc7b41@TWS3001><003d01c2fed4$de54b390$0500000a@arcana><000a01c2ff2a$5784de70$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
	<001101c2ff2b$f1f05010$9dfc7b41@TWS3001>
Message-ID: <002c01c2ff2f$f15ec1a0$78e8adcb@k1n8i8>

Yep, you probably tried

document.images[0].style.top

but that will give you nothing, it will only work if you've set it first.

.offsetTop etc are read only values so you cant change them, but you can
change with style.top=x

Works with IE anyway@

Cheers
Andrew

===================================================
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Getting the X,Y coordinates of an image


Well,, document.images[0].offsetLeft just  did the job right ? Is the Left
and offsetLeft gives me the same value ?





From rer at datacompusa.com  Thu Apr 10 03:53:05 2003
From: rer at datacompusa.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:53:05 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards - was Is this right Javascript?
In-Reply-To: <20030410062831.0E42A3099AE@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <D8556768-6B31-11D7-AD12-000502455904@datacompusa.com>

Andrew,

It certainly would make our job as web developers easier.  However, it 
would be very bad in the long run.  Without competition, innovations 
cease.  The web would cease to be accessible to all and over time 
html/xml would no longer be the preferred storage medium for the 
collected knowledge we all share.

The real key is to continue lobbying browser vendors for standards 
compliance.  That way, we and our users have browser choices, end the 
browser vendors have a reason to improve their products.  I understand 
that we are not 'typical' web users, but my my setup illustrates my 
point well.  I currently have 9 browsers installed on my machines:  5 
are proprietary, 2 are Mozilla based and 2 are KHTML based.  Each one 
has features that are unique and helpful to me in my life/work.  No one 
browser will ever do everything I want, unless I write it myself :=) ).

I guess the bottom line is that I prefer to code to standards because 
I'm philosophically geared to prefer user choice over my convenience.  
Having said that, browser support is a royal pain.  And I have to 
confess that most critical feature of the web apps I write have been 
pushed server-side because of the non-standard browser mess.

On Thursday, Apr 10, 2003, at 02:28 America/Detroit, "Andrew Gibson" 
<andyg at ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> It would be an enhancement if all the other non ie browsers went out of
> existence quite frankly. I'd guess that none have the same sort of
> sophistication as MSIE. Think of all the rich features on sites we're
> missing out on because we have to cater for all...and most coders 
> don't do
> that anyway, only the top 2 IE and NS. Not only that, I suspect the
> development of IE is hindered because they're not sure how supportive 
> coders
> are.
>
>> Anything which isn't in an international standards document and is 
>> proprietary to one vendor/development tree is "bastardized" to my way 
>> of thinking.


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Thu Apr 10 04:13:41 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:13:41 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards - was Is this right Javascript?
References: <D8556768-6B31-11D7-AD12-000502455904@datacompusa.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c2ff41$7bc0b860$20e6adcb@k1n8i8>

Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of the advances
for us Client side scripters, they are penalised, or at the least not
rewarded, for their creativity. In fact it's the reverse, as some developers
no doubt hold off on using the latest DHTML/xml stuff, waiting for the other
browsers to catch up.....instead the other browsers drag the chain, under
the guise of standards.

Im thinking of a good analogy......an airplane drops its prices, or provides
better service etc. other airlines have to do the same, or compete in some
other way, or go out of business.....
Andrew


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards - was Is this right Javascript?


Andrew,

It certainly would make our job as web developers easier.  However, it
would be very bad in the long run.  Without competition, innovations
cease.  The web would cease to be accessible to all and over time
html/xml would no longer be the preferred storage medium for the
collected knowledge we all share.

The real key is to continue lobbying browser vendors for standards
compliance.  That way, we and our users have browser choices, end the
browser vendors have a reason to improve their products.  I understand
that we are not 'typical' web users, but my my setup illustrates my
point well.  I currently have 9 browsers installed on my machines:  5
are proprietary, 2 are Mozilla based and 2 are KHTML based.  Each one
has features that are unique and helpful to me in my life/work.  No one
browser will ever do everything I want, unless I write it myself :=) ).

I guess the bottom line is that I prefer to code to standards because
I'm philosophically geared to prefer user choice over my convenience.
Having said that, browser support is a royal pain.  And I have to
confess that most critical feature of the web apps I write have been
pushed server-side because of the non-standard browser mess.

On Thursday, Apr 10, 2003, at 02:28 America/Detroit, "Andrew Gibson"
<andyg at ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> It would be an enhancement if all the other non ie browsers went out of
> existence quite frankly. I'd guess that none have the same sort of
> sophistication as MSIE. Think of all the rich features on sites we're
> missing out on because we have to cater for all...and most coders
> don't do
> that anyway, only the top 2 IE and NS. Not only that, I suspect the
> development of IE is hindered because they're not sure how supportive
> coders
> are.
>
>> Anything which isn't in an international standards document and is
>> proprietary to one vendor/development tree is "bastardized" to my way
>> of thinking.

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



From christ at saeweb.com  Thu Apr 10 08:14:23 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:14:23 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards - was Is this right Javascript?
References: <D8556768-6B31-11D7-AD12-000502455904@datacompusa.com>
	<000f01c2ff41$7bc0b860$20e6adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <008601c2ff63$1b418880$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards - was Is this right Javascript?


> Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of the advances
> for us Client side scripters, they are penalised, or at the least not
> rewarded, for their creativity. In fact it's the reverse, as some
developers
> no doubt hold off on using the latest DHTML/xml stuff, waiting for the
other
> browsers to catch up.....instead the other browsers drag the chain, under
> the guise of standards.
>
> Im thinking of a good analogy......an airplane drops its prices, or
provides
> better service etc. other airlines have to do the same, or compete in some
> other way, or go out of business.....
> Andrew


I tend to think more along your line of thought rather than competition
being
better.  Do you know how many features MS would pack into their browser
if they didn't have to worry about complying to standards? I can see how in
the LONG term it might hurt us having only one choice, but in the SHORT
term,
I see much more beneficial gain if some of these browsers would just go
away...

Having said that though, I always try to make something cross-browser, just
because I don't know if others will support what I'd ultimately like to
accomplish
- most of which IE is already capable of.  I do give NN credit through -
they're
putting out a better browser than they were in the past. I would have NEVER
said that about their version 4 browsers.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com


From dlovering at gazos.com  Thu Apr 10 11:37:08 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:37:08 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences
	wit
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301c2ff7f$6dd0dfd0$0500000a@arcana>

To Peter-Paul Koch, et al:

  After trying a number of different tweaks on the code samples you
schlepped me the other day (and reviewing your discussion of the portability
issues on your homepage), I came up with the following hybrid solution:

<html>
<head>
    <title>bogus</title>
    <script language='JavaScript'>
    <!--
        var theSrc;
        function invoke(theSrc) {
            if (!theSrc) { return -1; }
            if (theSrc == '') { return -1; }
            wrapper.style.display = "none";
            program.location.href = theSrc;
            wrapper.style.display = "inline";
        }
    // -->
    </script>
</head>
<body>
    <form name='theForm'>
        <table align='center' border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0
valign='top'>
            <tr>
                <td align='center' valign='middle'>
                    <input type='button' value='invoke PHP'
onClick='invoke("./myCode.php")'>
                </td>
            </tr>
        </table>
        <span name='wrapper' id='wrapper' style='display: none'>
            <iframe id='program' name='program' src='' align='center'
height="0" width="0" scrolling='no'
                        style='border: 0; border-style: none; margin-top:
6px'></iframe>
        </span>
    </form>
</body>
</html>

... and myCode.php can be any non-displaying PHP program.  I'm assuming
everything would work the same for
any other server-side language.  I'm still exploring passing references
between the interior iframe and the outside world (and vice-versa, of
course), but this little bit has given me confidence in the basic approach.
Quite frankly, I'm not even sure that the wrapper.style.display = xxx
statements are even necessary for non-displaying routines, but I need to
check out a number of issues before I can say this with any confidence.

  Another related matter: do you think that the PHP (or whatever) code could
be referenced inside anchor declarations within the span/iframe?  It would
be SO nice not to have to tote 52 niggly little PHP programs around with the
application, and I don't want to schlepp every PHP subroutine into a giant
humongous 'common' block, particularly so if any given usage only requires 6
routines to operate.  (the 'include' directives for such an approach add
enormously to the application memory requirements, primarily on the server).

-- Dave Lovering

-- Dave Lovering



From rer at datacompusa.com  Thu Apr 10 11:47:23 2003
From: rer at datacompusa.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:47:23 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <20030410163727.AABF6309125@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <1A57D318-6B74-11D7-89F4-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>

What advances did you have in mind?  What can you do in ie that you 
can't do in another browser?  I hate when I miss out on all the new 
toys :-)

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 12:37  PM, 
javascript-request at LaTech.edu wrote:

> Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of the 
> advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised, or at the 
> least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact it's the reverse, 
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From christ at saeweb.com  Thu Apr 10 12:10:42 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:10:42 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <1A57D318-6B74-11D7-89F4-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
Message-ID: <002901c2ff84$1e0ba200$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I'm not positive, but does NN incorporate Remote Scripting?  That's the 
first thing that pops into my head.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Roger Roelofs 
  To: javascript at LaTech.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:47 PM
  Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards


  What advances did you have in mind? What can you do in ie that you can't do in another browser? I hate when I miss out on all the new toys :-)

  On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 12:37 PM, javascript-request at LaTech.edu wrote:


    Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of the advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised, or at the least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact it's the reverse, 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Javascript mailing list
  Javascript at LaTech.edu
  https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
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From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Thu Apr 10 12:54:08 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:54:08 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <1A57D318-6B74-11D7-89F4-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
	<002901c2ff84$1e0ba200$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3E95AFC0.3050505@aflyingstart.net>

See

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/02/08/iframe.html

Rodney

Chris Tifer wrote:

> I'm not positive, but does NN incorporate Remote Scripting?  That's the
> first thing that pops into my head.
>  
> Chris Tifer
> http://www.emailajoke.com
>  
>
>     From: Roger Roelofs <mailto:rer at datacompusa.com>
>     What advances did you have in mind? What can you do in ie that you
>     can't do in another browser? I hate when I miss out on all the new
>     toys :-)
>
>         Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of
>         the advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised,
>         or at the least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact
>         it's the reverse, 
>




From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Thu Apr 10 16:25:48 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:25:48 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<1A57D318-6B74-11D7-89F4-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><002901c2ff84$1e0ba200$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<3E95AFC0.3050505@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <006001c2ffa7$c27453a0$58e7adcb@k1n8i8>

Heres one, allowing the user to type on the web page.

But for all I know there may be way to do this in Netscape or Opera.

<div contenteditable>
hello world
</div>


>     From: Roger Roelofs <mailto:rer at datacompusa.com>
>     What advances did you have in mind? What can you do in ie that you
>     can't do in another browser? I hate when I miss out on all the new
>     toys :-)
>
>         Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of
>         the advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised,
>         or at the least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact
>         it's the reverse, 
>




From jaime at alazan.com  Fri Apr 11 02:37:30 2003
From: jaime at alazan.com (Jaime Iniesta)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:37:30 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <006001c2ffa7$c27453a0$58e7adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <001001c2fffd$36ba8f40$040010ac@jaime>

Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page? Can
this be submitted with a form or something?

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de Andrew Gibson
Enviado el: jueves, 10 de abril de 2003 23:26
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards

Heres one, allowing the user to type on the web page.

But for all I know there may be way to do this in Netscape or Opera.

<div contenteditable>
hello world
</div>


>     From: Roger Roelofs <mailto:rer at datacompusa.com>
>     What advances did you have in mind? What can you do in ie that you
>     can't do in another browser? I hate when I miss out on all the new
>     toys :-)
>
>         Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of
>         the advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised,
>         or at the least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact
>         it's the reverse, 
>



_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From christ at saeweb.com  Fri Apr 11 07:54:32 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:54:32 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<1A57D318-6B74-11D7-89F4-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><002901c2ff84$1e0ba200$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><3E95AFC0.3050505@aflyingstart.net>
	<006001c2ffa7$c27453a0$58e7adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <00a701c30029$80fc1890$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Perhaps the best - but not related to JavaScript - is the 
ability to have transparent Flash files.  In conjunction with 
JavaScript, you can do some cool things with that, which 
you aren't able to do in Netscape.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


> Heres one, allowing the user to type on the web page.
> 
> But for all I know there may be way to do this in Netscape or Opera.
> 
> <div contenteditable>
> hello world
> </div>
> 
> 
> >     From: Roger Roelofs <mailto:rer at datacompusa.com>
> >     What advances did you have in mind? What can you do in ie that you
> >     can't do in another browser? I hate when I miss out on all the new
> >     toys :-)
> >
> >         Agreed, but I find it illogical that with MSIE making most of
> >         the advances for us Client side scripters, they are penalised,
> >         or at the least not rewarded, for their creativity. In fact
> >         it's the reverse, 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 09:42:57 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:42:57 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <001001c2fffd$36ba8f40$040010ac@jaime>
Message-ID: <3E96D465.3B12DE0C@gazos.com>


I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for submitting
the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all, JavaScript
and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!

The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms at all
is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence outside
a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck don't
let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.

I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the server-side and
client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern themselves
with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms, nor need
to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges either.  I still
have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.

Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead, costs a 
kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also only has about
1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the code efficiency 
is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too whiney.

-- Dave Lovering


Jaime Iniesta wrote:
> 
> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page? Can
> this be submitted with a form or something?

From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 09:56:02 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:56:02 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
References: <001001c2fffd$36ba8f40$040010ac@jaime>
Message-ID: <3E96D774.551DA7B@gazos.com>


I was wondering if there was a "clean" way of embedding multiple PHP modules or other server-side
code constructs within a single HTML document without having to worry about fall-through execution.
I've now whipped the callable external routine issues (without requiring remotes), but I'd like to
cut down on gazillions of little external PHP, ASP, or whatever routines that ride around with the
app web page(s).

Yes, I am familiar with the use of libraries (and often use them), but the downside is that everything
in the library gets hauled in at the same time, irrespective of the need for it.  Pulling everything
by reference instead of by inclusion cuts down on executable code bulk, but ups the execution latency
something fierce.  I'm also a bit queasy about building a whole bunch of separate libraries having
just the right routines for each app, and then keeping them straight and managing the revision control
issues.

I've explored using embedded hash tags within spans as wrappers, but so far there's no joy in Mudville.
Any notions?  It is virtually certain that someone has tackled this before, even if only in the context
of "plain" HTML modules which are included inline, but only invoked as required.

-- Dave Lovering

From jaime at alazan.com  Fri Apr 11 10:04:18 2003
From: jaime at alazan.com (Jaime Iniesta)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:04:18 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <3E96D465.3B12DE0C@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c3003b$a14a2fd0$040010ac@jaime>

I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for lots
of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save what
you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de David T. Lovering
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 16:43
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
submitting
the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all,
JavaScript
and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!

The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms
at all
is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence
outside
a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck
don't
let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.

I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the
server-side and
client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern
themselves
with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms, nor
need
to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges
either.  I still
have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.

Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead,
costs a 
kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also
only has about
1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the
code efficiency 
is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too
whiney.

-- Dave Lovering


Jaime Iniesta wrote:
> 
> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page?
Can
> this be submitted with a form or something?
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Fri Apr 11 10:14:58 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:14:58 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
In-Reply-To: <fc.8a81a16e8a81a16e90a69b3b3b9aca00.5de8a4@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEJADDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Why not put each function in it's own file?  Each application can include
only the functions it uses

or am i missing the point?

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:56 AM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code



I was wondering if there was a "clean" way of embedding multiple PHP
modules or other server-side
code constructs within a single HTML document without having to worry
about fall-through execution.
I've now whipped the callable external routine issues (without requiring
remotes), but I'd like to
cut down on gazillions of little external PHP, ASP, or whatever routines
that ride around with the
app web page(s).

Yes, I am familiar with the use of libraries (and often use them), but the
downside is that everything
in the library gets hauled in at the same time, irrespective of the need
for it.  Pulling everything
by reference instead of by inclusion cuts down on executable code bulk,
but ups the execution latency
something fierce.  I'm also a bit queasy about building a whole bunch of
separate libraries having
just the right routines for each app, and then keeping them straight and
managing the revision control
issues.

I've explored using embedded hash tags within spans as wrappers, but so
far there's no joy in Mudville.
Any notions?  It is virtually certain that someone has tackled this
before, even if only in the context
of "plain" HTML modules which are included inline, but only invoked as
required.

-- Dave Lovering
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From christ at saeweb.com  Fri Apr 11 10:15:23 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:15:23 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <003a01c3003b$a14a2fd0$040010ac@jaime>
Message-ID: <001a01c3003d$2cbf5e90$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

http://search.microsoft.com/default.asp?qu=contenteditable&boolean=ALL&nq=NE
W&so=RECCNT&p=1&ig=01&ig=03&ig=04&ig=05&ig=06&i=00&i=01&i=02&i=03&i=04&i=05&
i=06&i=07&i=08&i=09&i=10&i=11&i=12&i=13&i=14&i=15&i=16&i=17&i=18&i=19&i=20&i
=21&i=22&i=23&i=24&i=25&i=26&i=27&i=28&i=29&i=30&i=31&i=32&i=33&i=34&i=35&i=
36&i=37&i=38&i=39&i=40&i=41&siteid=us/dev

Or just go to http://msdn.microsoft.com/library and
search for: contenteditable  You'll get tons of
results which will help you know about its uses.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaime Iniesta" <jaime at alazan.com>
To: "'[JavaScript List]'" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for lots
of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save what
you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de David T. Lovering
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 16:43
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
submitting
the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all,
JavaScript
and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!

The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms
at all
is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence
outside
a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck
don't
let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.

I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the
server-side and
client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern
themselves
with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms, nor
need
to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges
either.  I still
have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.

Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead,
costs a
kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also
only has about
1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the
code efficiency
is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too
whiney.

-- Dave Lovering


Jaime Iniesta wrote:
>
> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page?
Can
> this be submitted with a form or something?
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Fri Apr 11 10:17:32 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:17:32 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <fc.8d571b668d571b668d571b663b9aca00.5de92e@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEJADDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Have you ever used a wiki page?
http://sql.wikis.com

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:04 AM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for
lots
of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save
what
you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de David T. Lovering
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 16:43
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user
type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
submitting
the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all,
JavaScript
and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!

The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms
at all
is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence
outside
a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck
don't
let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.

I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the
server-side and
client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern
themselves
with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms,
nor
need
to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges
either.  I still
have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.

Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead,
costs a 
kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also
only has about
1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the
code efficiency 
is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too
whiney.

-- Dave Lovering


Jaime Iniesta wrote:
>> 
>> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page?
Can
>> this be submitted with a form or something?
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



From christ at saeweb.com  Fri Apr 11 10:27:13 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:27:13 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEJADDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <002401c3003e$d3c018a0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Then you have to include the code needed for each Function
which is going to be time-consuming to maintain if you use anything
more than a handful of them, and if you are only using a handful, it'd
be much better to include in small file than 5 small files.

Chris Tifer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Isolation of code


> Why not put each function in it's own file?  Each application can include
> only the functions it uses
>
> or am i missing the point?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:56 AM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
>
>
>
> I was wondering if there was a "clean" way of embedding multiple PHP
> modules or other server-side
> code constructs within a single HTML document without having to worry
> about fall-through execution.
> I've now whipped the callable external routine issues (without requiring
> remotes), but I'd like to
> cut down on gazillions of little external PHP, ASP, or whatever routines
> that ride around with the
> app web page(s).
>
> Yes, I am familiar with the use of libraries (and often use them), but the
> downside is that everything
> in the library gets hauled in at the same time, irrespective of the need
> for it.  Pulling everything
> by reference instead of by inclusion cuts down on executable code bulk,
> but ups the execution latency
> something fierce.  I'm also a bit queasy about building a whole bunch of
> separate libraries having
> just the right routines for each app, and then keeping them straight and
> managing the revision control
> issues.
>
> I've explored using embedded hash tags within spans as wrappers, but so
> far there's no joy in Mudville.
> Any notions?  It is virtually certain that someone has tackled this
> before, even if only in the context
> of "plain" HTML modules which are included inline, but only invoked as
> required.
>
> -- Dave Lovering
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From jaime at alazan.com  Fri Apr 11 10:30:17 2003
From: jaime at alazan.com (Jaime Iniesta)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:30:17 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <001a01c3003d$2cbf5e90$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <003b01c3003f$c07664b0$040010ac@jaime>

OK, now I understand it... you have to use it in conjunction with other
advantages. The HTML editor tutorial is quite cool.

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de Chris Tifer
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 17:15
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards

http://search.microsoft.com/default.asp?qu=contenteditable&boolean=ALL&nq=NE
W&so=RECCNT&p=1&ig=01&ig=03&ig=04&ig=05&ig=06&i=00&i=01&i=02&i=03&i=04&i=05&
i=06&i=07&i=08&i=09&i=10&i=11&i=12&i=13&i=14&i=15&i=16&i=17&i=18&i=19&i=20&i
=21&i=22&i=23&i=24&i=25&i=26&i=27&i=28&i=29&i=30&i=31&i=32&i=33&i=34&i=35&i=
36&i=37&i=38&i=39&i=40&i=41&siteid=us/dev

Or just go to http://msdn.microsoft.com/library and
search for: contenteditable  You'll get tons of
results which will help you know about its uses.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaime Iniesta" <jaime at alazan.com>
To: "'[JavaScript List]'" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for lots
of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save what
you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...

Jaime

-----Mensaje original-----
De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
nombre de David T. Lovering
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 16:43
Para: [JavaScript List]
Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
submitting
the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all,
JavaScript
and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!

The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms
at all
is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence
outside
a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck
don't
let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.

I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the
server-side and
client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern
themselves
with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms, nor
need
to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges
either.  I still
have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.

Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead,
costs a
kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also
only has about
1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the
code efficiency
is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too
whiney.

-- Dave Lovering


Jaime Iniesta wrote:
>
> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page?
Can
> this be submitted with a form or something?
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From rer at datacompusa.com  Fri Apr 11 10:31:24 2003
From: rer at datacompusa.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:31:24 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <20030411150436.7F6A93094BC@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>

David,

Amen!  That's why I want standards compliance.  Otherwise, we need not 
only only 1 browser vendor, but only 1 version of the browser.  Has 
anyone cataloged the differences between ie 5, 5.5, and 6?

On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 11:04  AM, "David T. Lovering" 
<dlovering at gazos.com> wrote:

> I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work 
> without burdening the server, more power to it.
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From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 10:40:36 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:40:36 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEJADDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3E96E1E1.5ADC7019@gazos.com>


Been there, done that.  This is why I have 200+ niggly little server-side
applets floating around with my application window.  I'd like to roll the
necessary/useful ones into the main bundle so that I can ship the application
hither and yon without lots of unpacking issues to worry about.

-- Dave Lovering

Michael Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Why not put each function in it's own file?  Each application can include
> only the functions it uses
> 
> or am i missing the point?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:56 AM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] Isolation of code
> 
> I was wondering if there was a "clean" way of embedding multiple PHP
> modules or other server-side
> code constructs within a single HTML document without having to worry
> about fall-through execution.
> I've now whipped the callable external routine issues (without requiring
> remotes), but I'd like to
> cut down on gazillions of little external PHP, ASP, or whatever routines
> that ride around with the
> app web page(s).
> 
> Yes, I am familiar with the use of libraries (and often use them), but the
> downside is that everything
> in the library gets hauled in at the same time, irrespective of the need
> for it.  Pulling everything
> by reference instead of by inclusion cuts down on executable code bulk,
> but ups the execution latency
> something fierce.  I'm also a bit queasy about building a whole bunch of
> separate libraries having
> just the right routines for each app, and then keeping them straight and
> managing the revision control
> issues.
> 
> I've explored using embedded hash tags within spans as wrappers, but so
> far there's no joy in Mudville.
> Any notions?  It is virtually certain that someone has tackled this
> before, even if only in the context
> of "plain" HTML modules which are included inline, but only invoked as
> required.
> 
> -- Dave Lovering
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 11:18:15 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:18:15 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
Message-ID: <3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com>


Very few of us will live that long.  I began doing a functional diff
between 5.5 and 6, but gave up after finding about 380+ differences,
with no end in sight.  Some of them are obvious bug patches, but a
lot of these widgets comprise added functionality.

One reason I'm so "down" on Netscape at present is that such a huge
chunk of it doesn't comply with HTML4.0 and other comparable international
standards.  Hey -- I'm as much a sucker for a nifty proprietary tweak as
the next guy, but having to write messes of adaptive code for each app
based on platform, browser, browser-rev, plugins, etc. is starting to
get old.  Face it, I'm lazy.

I REALLY don't want just one browser vendor -- the pressure to develop
progressive standards will vanish at that point, and the "vendor" (dare
I say M$soft?) will be able to lead us about by the short hairs.

-- Dave Lovering

Roger Roelofs wrote:

Amen!  That's why I want standards compliance.  Otherwise, we need not 
only only 1 browser vendor, but only 1 version of the browser.  Has 
anyone cataloged the differences between ie 5, 5.5, and 6?

From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Apr 11 11:29:15 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:29:15 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com>
References: <A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
	<3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com>

David T. Lovering wrote:

> One reason I'm so "down" on Netscape at present is that such a huge
> chunk of it doesn't comply with HTML4.0 and other comparable international
> standards. 

? What "Netscape" are you talking about? NS4? NS6? 7? Moz 1.3b? It's
a little vague to just say "Netscape"...

If it's Mozilla you're referring to, what in HTML 4 is not supported?

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Fri Apr 11 12:11:54 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:11:54 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <003a01c3003b$a14a2fd0$040010ac@jaime>
Message-ID: <3E96F75A.2030003@aflyingstart.net>

Jaime,

I had never heard of this editing feature and it does seem to be MSIE only.

I can think of an immediate application in an offline MSIE context.
Orders from my website now come to me as HTML files attached to emails.
If I save the incoming file order.html and run a special page/script I can
- add an invoice number
- strip some of the 'tail'
- add a footer block
- save it  with that number in the file name. (This uses FileSystemObject)

Using this editing feature, I could, before printing, add a quick note 
to the client - bearing in mind no-one can read my handwriting including 
myself.
All I need do is add the div to the server code that constructs the  
incoming file or the footer addendum.

Also, using script to access the input text in a DIV with ID/name it 
would be possible to extract the input data.
This could then be written to a local file using FileSystemObject, or 
inserted into hidden form inputs and sent to a remote script
I don't think I shall actually do this one any time soon, but who knows...

Rodney


Jaime Iniesta wrote:

>I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for lots
>of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
>edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save what
>you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
>then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
>useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...
>
>Jaime
>
>  
>

-- 
PS. I have just bought a licence for Mike Chen's
BizAutomator. If you have to answer routine 
email queries from your sites or mailings then
you need this as much as I do. 
http://www.BizAutomator.com/rlbm51 

Rodney





From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 12:34:08 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:34:08 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com>
	<3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana>

The latest versions of Netscape I've examined are NS6 and NS7.  I make a
point of not reviewing developments which are billed as betas (unlike
M$oft's betas, which are billed as real products).

The good news is that Netscape 7 is a great deal closer to "standard" HTML
than any versions previous, but there are still a sizeable number of CSS
features and style parameters, etc. which either are not implemented at all,
or are implemented in some fashion different from the HTML4.0 standard.
[Possibly one thing that would speed up these evaluations is a real
honest-to-God benchmark suite in the public domain.  There are admittedly a
bunch of test sites that will "crunch" code and spume out their assessment
of compliance, but there's a lot of subjective analysis that these sites
rely on to make their judgement calls.]  Possibly the major issues with NS7
are (i) layer management, (ii) object management, (iii) consistency between
IFRAME and FRAME behavior, (iv) "BUTTON" objects, (v) keyboard and other
event issues, (vi) SSL access methods, and (vii) support for inline
encryption consistant with IPSEC and the like.  Some of these are still "out
there" in terms of being fully implemented by anybody, but I'm sorry to say
M$oft is a bit further along on most of these.

For example, I find it quite astonishing that the only absolute rock-solid
standard for authenticating "secure" browser sessions (snort, giggle!) is
based upon BASIC clear-text password exchanges.  If you want anything
better, you either have to use Netscape's wierd proprietary package (which
you can only get your hands on if you are a "registered" developer for
beaucoups bucks), buy into some third-party front-end, use M$oft's CHAP
implementation which is both flaky and insecure (it was cracked about two
weeks after it came out), or use SSH2 (which isn't part of the basic kit).
Ugh!  If there are any better solutions out there, they aren't advertising
as aggressively as they ought to.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hassan Schroeder" <hassan at webtuitive.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


> David T. Lovering wrote:
>
> > One reason I'm so "down" on Netscape at present is that such a huge
> > chunk of it doesn't comply with HTML4.0 and other comparable
international
> > standards.
>
> ? What "Netscape" are you talking about? NS4? NS6? 7? Moz 1.3b? It's
> a little vague to just say "Netscape"...
>
> If it's Mozilla you're referring to, what in HTML 4 is not supported?
>
> --
> Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
> Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
>
>                            dream.  code.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From christ at saeweb.com  Fri Apr 11 13:15:51 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:15:51 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com>
	<000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> The good news is that Netscape 7 is a great deal closer to "standard" HTML
> than any versions previous, but there are still a sizeable number of CSS
> features and style parameters, etc. which either are not implemented at
all,
> or are implemented in some fashion different from the HTML4.0 standard.


Such as what?  The only feature I can think of is some filter attributes,
which
I'm not even positive are in the standards definition.  Other than that, I
can make
something look almost exactly as I can in both IE6 or NN7.

Now in NN4 there's some serious issues when trying to add borders to things,
but I don't see that as an issue in the latest and greatest.

I'm curious as to what you've found doesn't work.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com


From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 11 14:01:28 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:01:28 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
Message-ID: <F77x7Oqv0ysfgPU7yWA000085a1@hotmail.com>

Sorry I left without a notice, but i had to. Long time planin a short 
vacation up the mountains, -the very tops, ups!

Very cold weather and furious snowy winds, wisibility='hidden' but it pays.

Anyway,
here is the script for acrobat-like movement i've written that day:

/*********************************************************************
Title:       "Acrobat-Like" Page Scroll Script
Written by:   Bekim Bac? Trojani
Date:         1:10 PM 4/1/03
Instructions: To remove scrollbars and retain scrollability
	      Include: style="overflow:hidden" in the <Body> tag
Compatibility:IE only (this version) version 1.0ie(beta)
**************Please keep this coment lines if you use it*************
**********************************************************************/
var x, y, dx, dy, dB=document.body;
function enableMove(){
		dB.style.cursor="move" //can't make it work!
          	x=event.screenX
		y=event.screenY
	    dx=x+dB.scrollLeft
	    dy=y+dB.scrollTop
	}

function movingNow(){
	if (window.event.button==1) {
		x=event.screenX
		y=event.screenY
	   dB.scrollLeft = 0-(x-dx)
	   dB.scrollTop  = 0-(y-dy)
        dB.style.cursor="move"
		}
	}

function setItBack(){dB.style.cursor='';}

function retF(){return false}

document.onmousedown  =enableMove
document.onmousemove  =movingNow
document.onmouseup    =setItBack
document.onselectstart=retF
document.ondragstart  =retF

It works as charm, very usefull for maps, especialy in popup windows etc.

Excuse my math, is't very unconvetional.

Once you've played around with this script, you will allready miss it at 
other pages.
(P.S. Might work perfect in >NN4 also, but never tested it)

Cheers!





>From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:57:21 +1200
>
>====================================
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>
>Pardon me for being a dummy, but where on your site do the coding examples
>you cite actually live?
>====================================
>Right here, but they're not coding samples, just demos of the code....but
>anyone can do a view source for   the code, and you have to view in ie6 for
>the dragging example
>
> > www.dscript.net.nz
> >
> > then select display, dragging
>then click example, and drag the image
>
>=====================================================================
>[P.S:  I don't believe in "API Development Tools" either.  Every one I've
>ever seen is riddled with bugs and incompatibilities, and the learning 
>curve
>is so steep you never catch up with what the "contemporary" package looks
>like.  I'm from the OLD days, when men were men, and sheep ran scared, and
>programming required chipping the 1's and 0's out of granite with your bare
>hands.]
>==============================
>Not even sure what API dev tools are to be honest, with regards to jscript,
>but if you mean programs like dreamweaver to create code, I agree.....in
>fact I've never even used anyone elses code without some major rejigging 
>for
>my own uses.
>
>Cheers
>Andrew Gibson
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


_________________________________________________________________
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From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 11 14:06:46 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:06:46 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
Message-ID: <F81iE0jpr02EPye7UXX00057177@hotmail.com>

Don't know about NN, but in IE you can edit the HTML and other stuf and save 
it in the server directly, also localy, but I guess none of us has ever 
tried it so far, try MSDN workshop
Cheers!






>From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Standards
>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:17:32 -0400
>
>Have you ever used a wiki page?
>http://sql.wikis.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:04 AM
>To: javascript at latech.edu
>Subject: RE: [Javascript] Re: Standards
>
>
>I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for
>lots
>of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
>edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save
>what
>you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
>then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
>useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...
>
>Jaime
>
>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu] En
>nombre de David T. Lovering
>Enviado el: viernes, 11 de abril de 2003 16:43
>Para: [JavaScript List]
>Asunto: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards
>
>
>I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
>burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user
>type
>in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
>submitting
>the form at all!), then print out results, etc.,so be it.  After all,
>JavaScript
>and its ilk are programming languages -- we damn well can use them as such!
>
>The whole concept of forms is rather outdated.  The only reason I use forms
>at all
>is because of the fact that most of the input constructs have no existence
>outside
>a form.  I haven't "submitted" a form in about 3 years, and I sure as heck
>don't
>let any form 'execute' on my corporate website.
>
>I am striving for the ultimate in seamless integration between the
>server-side and
>client-side programming languages in which the programmers need not concern
>themselves
>with the issues of interprocess communication between the two platforms,
>nor
>need
>to be paranoid about the possibility of clear-text parameter exchanges
>either.  I still
>have a ways to go, but I'm about 87% of the way there.
>
>Cold Fusion tried to do this, but it is slow, clunky, has massive overhead,
>costs a
>kidney, and "doesn't play friendly" with other code constructs.  It also
>only has about
>1% of the combined coding power of PHP, JavaScript, and the like, and the
>code efficiency
>is extremely poor.  However, it pointed the way -- so I shouldn't be too
>whiney.
>
>-- Dave Lovering
>
>
>Jaime Iniesta wrote:
> >>
> >> Cool, but what's the purpose of letting the users type into a web page?
>Can
> >> this be submitted with a form or something?
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


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From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 14:33:40 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:33:40 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana>
	<000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana>

Well, I won't provide an exhaustive list, but just in several minutes of
testing I found the following:

    (1)    font-sizing directives don't work one-to-one and onto
    (2)    Image boundary zones aren't respected (margin-top, margin-right,
etc.)
    (3)    button labels don't appear
    (4)    layers -- still use Netscape proprietary methods for hiding
(visibility doesn't render the same way)
    (5)    borders all default to standard grey, and relief declarations
don't work properly
    (6)    cellspacing declarations are ignored, or altered substantially
    (7)    CSS definitions pertaining to the internals of text fields,
pull-downs, etc. either don't work at all or are
            substantially modified from their declared values
    (8)    Key events are still flaky, and the masks don't conform to
HTML4.0 spec.  Don't worry, IE doesn't make the
            grade on this one either.

With that much pain, I don't need to flog myself any further.

Yes, I too can make a page that looks the same in both environments.  The
trick is to achieve this end with the same code, and without a life-time
supply of conditional macros to match the two platforms to some common
average.

-- Dave Lovering


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tifer" <christ at saeweb.com>
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


<snip>...
> Such as what?  The only feature I can think of is some filter attributes,
> which I'm not even positive are in the standards definition.  Other than
that, I
> can make something look almost exactly as I can in both IE6 or NN7.




From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 11 14:55:45 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:55:45 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements/Interesting -page scroll behaviour
Message-ID: <F507W7aOAU1SPRB2Vyy000695de@hotmail.com>

NOTICE!
IE 5.0 can not set the mouse-move style with onmousedown event
but scrolls as far as you can drag outside the window!
And at contrary:
IE6 Can set the mouse apearence in time but doesn't scroll longer as the 
mouse exits the window.



>Anyway,
>here is the script for acrobat-like movement i've written that day:
>
>/*********************************************************************
>Title:       "Acrobat-Like" Page Scroll Script
>Written by:   Bekim Bac? Trojani
>Date:         1:10 PM 4/1/03
>Instructions: To remove scrollbars and retain scrollability
>	      Include: style="overflow:hidden" in the <Body> tag
>Compatibility:IE only (this version) version 1.0ie(beta)
>**************Please keep this coment lines if you use it*************
>**********************************************************************/
>var x, y, dx, dy, dB=document.body;
>function enableMove(){
>		dB.style.cursor="move" //can't make it work!
>          	x=event.screenX
>		y=event.screenY
>	    dx=x+dB.scrollLeft
>	    dy=y+dB.scrollTop
>	}
>
>function movingNow(){
>	if (window.event.button==1) {
>		x=event.screenX
>		y=event.screenY
>	   dB.scrollLeft = 0-(x-dx)
>	   dB.scrollTop  = 0-(y-dy)
>        dB.style.cursor="move"
>		}
>	}
>
>function setItBack(){dB.style.cursor='';}
>
>function retF(){return false}
>
>document.onmousedown  =enableMove
>document.onmousemove  =movingNow
>document.onmouseup    =setItBack
>document.onselectstart=retF
>document.ondragstart  =retF


_________________________________________________________________
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From christ at saeweb.com  Fri Apr 11 15:01:45 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:01:45 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana><000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <005401c30065$2e676210$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I'd like to see how you do your styles. My comments are inline:


> Well, I won't provide an exhaustive list, but just in several minutes of
> testing I found the following:
>
>     (1)    font-sizing directives don't work one-to-one and onto

Not quite sure what "one-to-one and onto" mean, but using something like:
font: 12px arial; works just fine.

>     (2)    Image boundary zones aren't respected (margin-top,
margin-right,
> etc.)

<img src="http://www.emailajoke.com/images/ver4/common/topLogo.gif"
border="1" style="margin-top: 10px; margin-right: 0px;">

Test

Shows differently than:

<img src="http://www.emailajoke.com/images/ver4/common/topLogo.gif"
border="1" style="margin-top: 10px; margin-right: 20px;">

Test


>     (3)    button labels don't appear

What type of labels are you talking about here? I don't know of any
possible label declarations available through CSS


>     (4)    layers -- still use Netscape proprietary methods for hiding
> (visibility doesn't render the same way)

Adding visibility: hidden; to the above image will make it disappear.
WithOUT being in a layer or anything like that.


>     (5)    borders all default to standard grey, and relief declarations
> don't work properly

Is there a standard default border color out there that's been defined and
accepted by browser makers?

>     (6)    cellspacing declarations are ignored, or altered substantially

I couldn't get a cellspacing property to work in either browser. How
do you accomplish this?

>     (7)    CSS definitions pertaining to the internals of text fields,
> pull-downs, etc. either don't work at all or are
>             substantially modified from their declared values


If I recall correctly, I thought I had found that with SELECT lists,
NN had MORE control than IE, but I don't have any code handy.

Also, something like this:

<form>
 <input type="text" name="test" size="20" value="test" style="padding: 15px;
color: #FF0000; background: #000000;">
</form>

Actually works more to how I would imagine it should in NN than
in IE. It adds the padding to the text. In IE, it's still there, but the
textbox didn't get any larget so you can't tell...


>     (8)    Key events are still flaky, and the masks don't conform to
> HTML4.0 spec.  Don't worry, IE doesn't make the
>             grade on this one either.
>


I'm sure the masks aren't that good, but key events are stable, as
we went over just yesterday or two days ago. They've even been
working since NN4. How you handle them is different, but in the
end, that's not a CSS issue, but a scripting issue.

Chris Tifer

P.S. Keep in mind that I used to bash NN constantly. It's just
obvious to me that they're FINALLY trying to do something about
the bad reputation they were earning.


From walter at torres.ws  Fri Apr 11 16:50:41 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:50:41 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
In-Reply-To: <3E8546DA.915FBC74@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMENPCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

I am trying to create a method that limits the character count in a
TEXTAREA, like MAXLENGTH does in TEXT and PASSWORD.

What I have works (see below), to a point.

What it does is allow another character to flash in the box, and then it is
removed.

Anyone have any idea on how to interrupt this character entry at this point,
thus no character flash?

Thanks

Walter

=================

var objTA = [favorite method to get Element Reference]

objTA.onkeypress = setLimit;
objTA.onkeydown  = setLimit;
objTA.onkeyup    = setLimit;

function setLimit ( )
{
   // Get name of given TEXTAREA
   var strName = this.id;

   // What is the limit set at for this TEXTAREA
   var intLimit = new Number ( this.getAttribute("maxlength") );

   // How many characters do we have yet?
   var intCharRemaing = new Number ( intLimit - this.value.length );
   if ( intCharRemaing < 0 )
   {
      this.value = this.value.substring( 0, intLimit  );
      intCharRemaing = 0;
   }
}


From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 17:01:58 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:01:58 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana><000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana>
	<005401c30065$2e676210$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <000f01c30075$fc05fb90$0500000a@arcana>

Sigh.  Oh well, there's nothing for it but to dive in and swim with the
alligators.

(1)     font-sizing includes both relative and absolute sizes in canonical
format:
        <font face='arial' size='+1' color='red' ...> stuff </font>
        <font family='helvetica,sans-serif' size='10px' color='black' ...

      and so forth.  Relative sizing didn't work on the cases I tried in
NS7, and pt only worked down to
      10 pt.  Some of this may be attributable to preferences, but my NS7 is
"straight out of the box" and hasn't been
      customized.

(2)    "Shows differently" isn't good enough.  When I say 0 margin, I MEAN 0
margin.  When I say 5px, I want 5px, based upon accessible screen geometry
parameters.  Netscape apparently chooses certain thresholds for sizing, and
if the object is bigger or smaller then that it does some kind of funky
scaling.  In particular, I noticed that it didn't respect the margins around
an included image with respect to some text in paragraph format that was
intended to flow around it.  The example I used was straight out of the HTML
4.0 Sourcebook, and it worked on most of the Mozilla and IE platforms I
tried.  Those that didn't render EXACTLY as I specified came pretty close,
and only rounded up by a point size.  Netscape 7.0 overwrote the boundaries
of the illustration by almost 1/2 inch.  Unacceptable, particularly for
vanilla HTML4.0.

(3)    On button labels I refer both to the 'value' variety and to the
embedded legend variety.  Also, the use of the newer <BUTTON> construct
doesn't seem to be respected, and only <INPUT TYPE="BUTTON"> works even
vaguely like it should.  ANYTHING (button, image, whatever) that has
provisions for labelling should be able to accommodate a <legend> directive,
and Netscape doesn't cut it.  If you wish I can send you a number of
examples, but since all of the ones I tried crapped out, I don't think it
will be too hard to devise some of your own.  Admittedly, if you use the
value='blah' method of labelling a standard <INPUT TYPE='BUTTON'> thingy,
the text does appear -- but it doesn't reliably accept the style parameters
which customize the appearance, size, and inset associated with the label.
Just getting a colored but empty box on the screen (with incorrect borders,
I might add) doesn't cut it.

(4)    For those who are anal-retentive about labelling REAL button widgets
(as opposed to INPUT TYPE=BUTTON widgets), try the following example:

        <button name='myButton' type='image' src='blank.gif'
                    style='background-color: #cccccc; border-style: ridge;
border: 1pt ridge; height: 18px; width: 60px'
                    onClick='alert("bite me!")'>
            <legend align='center' style='text-align: center'>
                <font face='arial' color='black' style='font-weight: bold;
font-size: 7pt'>Bite Me!</font>
            </legend>
        </button>

        On Netscape (name your flavor) I guarantee you won't like what you
get.  Obviously, the indents go away in a packed code module, and are
provided here only for clarity.

(5)    For all those who simply want to make something "disappear", simply
tweaking the .style.visibility CSS parameter is good enough.  For those who
want to do real layering (say, with 4 or five layers, and varying
transparency), Netscape isn't even in the ballpark.  It's a shame, because
for years I defended Netscape as being a more solid platform than the early
IE.

(6)    The HTML standards document says that the standard border color is
black, although I can live with neutral grey, puce, mauve, chartreuse, or
whatever.  What I can't live with is when I define the border-color, and
Netscape swaps it out for #cccccc, or worse yet, 'grey' (which doesn't match
'#cccccc' and varies depending on your screen palette).  When I say I want
my borders to be black explicitly, I damn well mean I WANT IT THAT WAY!

(7)    You're right -- NN does have more control over its select objects
than does IE.  The problem is that not all of the controls conform to the
standards already defined for those particular features.  Again, this is a
sin that any number can play at -- IE has some proprietary features of
SELECT which aren't canonical either.  However, they make up for it by
supporting the core standard elements, while NN doesn't.  Again, I'm
gullible -- when the HTML4.0 Sourcebook says something should work, I
believe it right up to the point where the dillusionment sets in.

(8)    About key events -- much improvement has been made in Netscape
(unlike much of the previous 4 years), but I still would like to see
absolutely standard events supported BEFORE the funky-ass proprietary
gee-whiz ones.  We discussed keyDown versus keyPress.  Yes, Netscape has had
keyDown since the dinosaurs hatched, but they never pushed it to the HTML SG
for acceptance.  As an old NIST/NBS code jockey, I'm big on the written
standards, not the defacto ones.  Defacto ones are perfectly good standards,
right up to the point where they aren't anymore -- and then all your code
breaks, all at once.  [And for all you folks that wonder why there is a big
fuss about this -- keyDown doesn't work on keyboards whose ROM programs
force automatic 50ms debounce to 'zero'.  In my book, if you feel your
finger mashing on the key, the key is DOWN, and the keyDown event (or if you
prefer using the handler designation, onKeyDown) should be active.  In the
special case described above, it isn't after the first 50 ms.  However, the
onKeyPress event turns off debouncing (I could elaborate on the assembly
language it takes to do this, but I won't), and so gives a truer picture of
when your greasy thumb is clamped on to some key or another.  That's merely
one example -- the keyCode definitions are also non-standard.  That's no
fault of NN, but I wish everyone could agree on this and go home.

Enough ranting.  Back in the days when there was one 'Netscape' standard,
and one 'Internet Explorer' standard, these issues were no biggy -- one
conditional test at the start, and some handy-dandy macros, and hey-presto!
Everything was cool.  However, when ALL the browsers show HUGE differences
between consecutive versions (and even between consecute revs!),  and all of
them are different with respect to one another, writing code for them is
getting very ugly.  Most of the folks I know who do production coding write
a JavaScript front-end that tests for the existence of their preferred
platform, and if it is not being used at the client-side, they print a
nastygram and die.  Very unprofessional, but also very understandable.

-- Dave Lovering




----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tifer" <christ at saeweb.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Re: Standards


> I'd like to see how you do your styles. My comments are inline:
>
>
> > Well, I won't provide an exhaustive list, but just in several minutes of
> > testing I found the following:
> >
> >     (1)    font-sizing directives don't work one-to-one and onto
>
> Not quite sure what "one-to-one and onto" mean, but using something like:
> font: 12px arial; works just fine.
>
> >     (2)    Image boundary zones aren't respected (margin-top,
> margin-right,
> > etc.)
>
> <img src="http://www.emailajoke.com/images/ver4/common/topLogo.gif"
> border="1" style="margin-top: 10px; margin-right: 0px;">
>
> Test
>
> Shows differently than:
>
> <img src="http://www.emailajoke.com/images/ver4/common/topLogo.gif"
> border="1" style="margin-top: 10px; margin-right: 20px;">
>
> Test
>
>
> >     (3)    button labels don't appear
>
> What type of labels are you talking about here? I don't know of any
> possible label declarations available through CSS
>
>
> >     (4)    layers -- still use Netscape proprietary methods for hiding
> > (visibility doesn't render the same way)
>
> Adding visibility: hidden; to the above image will make it disappear.
> WithOUT being in a layer or anything like that.
>
>
> >     (5)    borders all default to standard grey, and relief declarations
> > don't work properly
>
> Is there a standard default border color out there that's been defined and
> accepted by browser makers?
>
> >     (6)    cellspacing declarations are ignored, or altered
substantially
>
> I couldn't get a cellspacing property to work in either browser. How
> do you accomplish this?
>
> >     (7)    CSS definitions pertaining to the internals of text fields,
> > pull-downs, etc. either don't work at all or are
> >             substantially modified from their declared values
>
>
> If I recall correctly, I thought I had found that with SELECT lists,
> NN had MORE control than IE, but I don't have any code handy.
>
> Also, something like this:
>
> <form>
>  <input type="text" name="test" size="20" value="test" style="padding:
15px;
> color: #FF0000; background: #000000;">
> </form>
>
> Actually works more to how I would imagine it should in NN than
> in IE. It adds the padding to the text. In IE, it's still there, but the
> textbox didn't get any larget so you can't tell...
>
>
> >     (8)    Key events are still flaky, and the masks don't conform to
> > HTML4.0 spec.  Don't worry, IE doesn't make the
> >             grade on this one either.
> >
>
>
> I'm sure the masks aren't that good, but key events are stable, as
> we went over just yesterday or two days ago. They've even been
> working since NN4. How you handle them is different, but in the
> end, that's not a CSS issue, but a scripting issue.
>
> Chris Tifer
>
> P.S. Keep in mind that I used to bash NN constantly. It's just
> obvious to me that they're FINALLY trying to do something about
> the bad reputation they were earning.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>



From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 17:16:46 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:16:46 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMENPCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <001401c30078$0a82ddd0$0500000a@arcana>

I personally like your method (I use it myself), as it is independent of
browser-specificity.  However, if you want a
"clean" screen presentation, you can use the key.event handler at the next
layer down.

<input name='myButton' type='button' onKeyPress='do_key(event)'>

...

<script language='JavaScript'>
<!--
        function do_key(evt) {
            var charCode = (navigator.appName == "Netscape") ? evt.which :
evt.keyCode;
            status = charCode;
            if (charCode == <crap>) {
               return false;
            }
            if (charCode == <goodStuff>) {
                return true;
            }
        }
// -->
</script>

Obviously, <crap> and <goodStuff> should be replaced with the keycodes for a
character you want to destroy, or preserve (respectively).  On most
platforms, this doesn't flash.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry


> I am trying to create a method that limits the character count in a
> TEXTAREA, like MAXLENGTH does in TEXT and PASSWORD.
>
> What I have works (see below), to a point.
>
> What it does is allow another character to flash in the box, and then it
is
> removed.
>
> Anyone have any idea on how to interrupt this character entry at this
point,
> thus no character flash?
>
> Thanks
>
> Walter
>
> =================
>
> var objTA = [favorite method to get Element Reference]
>
> objTA.onkeypress = setLimit;
> objTA.onkeydown  = setLimit;
> objTA.onkeyup    = setLimit;
>
> function setLimit ( )
> {
>    // Get name of given TEXTAREA
>    var strName = this.id;
>
>    // What is the limit set at for this TEXTAREA
>    var intLimit = new Number ( this.getAttribute("maxlength") );
>
>    // How many characters do we have yet?
>    var intCharRemaing = new Number ( intLimit - this.value.length );
>    if ( intCharRemaing < 0 )
>    {
>       this.value = this.value.substring( 0, intLimit  );
>       intCharRemaing = 0;
>    }
> }
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From walter at torres.ws  Fri Apr 11 17:32:56 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:32:56 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
In-Reply-To: <001401c30078$0a82ddd0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEOACBAA.walter@torres.ws>

Thanks, but 2 things...

1) This looks like an overall document/window event catcher

   I'm just trying to grab this on specific FORM Elements,
   TEXTAREA to be exact

2) All I want to do is throw away and characters entered into
   my target TEXTAERA once it reaches its MAXLENGTH setting,
   which is a new attribute I want to add to the Element.

My desire is for a coder to add MAXLENGTH = [x > 0] and then INCLUDE some
piece of code at the end of his document and all the magic will happen to
enforce this MAXLENGTH. But Only on TEXTAREAs that have a MAXLENGTH defined.

I have all the code to:
 - parse all TEXTAREAS on a document
 - discover if a MAXLENGTH is defined and if it is larger than ZERO
 - get length of value
 - compare it to MAXLENGTH value
 - replace value with only set character count

But the last character entered flashes. I'm trying to no have that happen.

Thanks

Walter


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Fri Apr 11 18:18:32 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:18:32 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] contenteditable
References: <003a01c3003b$a14a2fd0$040010ac@jaime>
	<001a01c3003d$2cbf5e90$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <010501c30080$abee7050$6be7adcb@k1n8i8>

===============================================
I still don't understand it. I mean, of course JavaScript is useful for lots
of reasons, what I'm asking is about this particular feature that lets you
edit the content of a web page. What good is it for, if you cannot save what
you typed? If you could refer to this edited content with JavaScript and
then process it, send it to a server, anything, but if not, it's just as
useful as a notepad that won't let you save what you just edited...
=================================================

Well, the big plus about Content editable, is not so much that you can type
into the <div> but that you can then manipulate the contents.....
1.  Type in whatever
2.  Select the text then hit a button turning the text into bold, or a list
, just like in word or front page.
3.  If you had a message board, you could have the user save the innerHTML
of the div, and so have the message display in HTML...quite useful....
Just what yahoo and hotmail have started using with their rich text format
web mail.

And thats just one advantage of using contenteditable, and one advantage of
useing MSIE.

=============================================================
I would argue that as long as the client machine can do useful work without
burdening the server, more power to it.  If that means letting the user type
in stuff, have it heavily preprocessed, (and maybe defeat the need for
submitting
======================================================

I would (cheekily) tend to argue its not my responsibility to ensure the
client doesn't overburden the server. It the server responsibility (the
manufacturer) to ensure it can handle the client machine.

Andrew GIbson





From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Fri Apr 11 18:22:21 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:22:21 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: <001001c2fffd$36ba8f40$040010ac@jaime>
Message-ID: <012901c30081$34560660$6be7adcb@k1n8i8>

Rather than catalog the differences, perhaps we should catalog the
advantages that MSIE offers....



From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Fri Apr 11 18:31:24 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:31:24 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <F77x7Oqv0ysfgPU7yWA000085a1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <014301c30082$77d8a0e0$6be7adcb@k1n8i8>

Bekim, I've copied this script as is....what is it supposed to do.....

Just comes up with object required when I try to drag something.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements


Sorry I left without a notice, but i had to. Long time planin a short
vacation up the mountains, -the very tops, ups!

Very cold weather and furious snowy winds, wisibility='hidden' but it pays.

Anyway,
here is the script for acrobat-like movement i've written that day:

/*********************************************************************
Title:       "Acrobat-Like" Page Scroll Script
Written by:   Bekim Bac? Trojani
Date:         1:10 PM 4/1/03
Instructions: To remove scrollbars and retain scrollability
      Include: style="overflow:hidden" in the <Body> tag
Compatibility:IE only (this version) version 1.0ie(beta)
**************Please keep this coment lines if you use it*************
**********************************************************************/
var x, y, dx, dy, dB=document.body;
function enableMove(){
dB.style.cursor="move" //can't make it work!
          x=event.screenX
y=event.screenY
    dx=x+dB.scrollLeft
    dy=y+dB.scrollTop
}

function movingNow(){
if (window.event.button==1) {
x=event.screenX
y=event.screenY
   dB.scrollLeft = 0-(x-dx)
   dB.scrollTop  = 0-(y-dy)
        dB.style.cursor="move"
}
}

function setItBack(){dB.style.cursor='';}

function retF(){return false}

document.onmousedown  =enableMove
document.onmousemove  =movingNow
document.onmouseup    =setItBack
document.onselectstart=retF
document.ondragstart  =retF

It works as charm, very usefull for maps, especialy in popup windows etc.

Excuse my math, is't very unconvetional.

Once you've played around with this script, you will allready miss it at
other pages.
(P.S. Might work perfect in >NN4 also, but never tested it)

Cheers!





>From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:57:21 +1200
>
>====================================
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>
>Pardon me for being a dummy, but where on your site do the coding examples
>you cite actually live?
>====================================
>Right here, but they're not coding samples, just demos of the code....but
>anyone can do a view source for   the code, and you have to view in ie6 for
>the dragging example
>
> > www.dscript.net.nz
> >
> > then select display, dragging
>then click example, and drag the image
>
>=====================================================================
>[P.S:  I don't believe in "API Development Tools" either.  Every one I've
>ever seen is riddled with bugs and incompatibilities, and the learning
>curve
>is so steep you never catch up with what the "contemporary" package looks
>like.  I'm from the OLD days, when men were men, and sheep ran scared, and
>programming required chipping the 1's and 0's out of granite with your bare
>hands.]
>==============================
>Not even sure what API dev tools are to be honest, with regards to jscript,
>but if you mean programs like dreamweaver to create code, I agree.....in
>fact I've never even used anyone elses code without some major rejigging
>for
>my own uses.
>
>Cheers
>Andrew Gibson
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


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_______________________________________________
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https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Apr 11 18:48:27 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <000f01c30075$fc05fb90$0500000a@arcana>
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana><000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana>
	<005401c30065$2e676210$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<000f01c30075$fc05fb90$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <3E97544B.8070706@webtuitive.com>

David Lovering wrote:

/* this is getting a bit far afield from JavaScript, but ... */

> (1)     font-sizing includes both relative and absolute sizes in canonical
> format:

>         <font family='helvetica,sans-serif' size='10px' color='black' ...

Aside from the FONT tag being deprecated, size='10px' isn't even valid.
   <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#edef-FONT>

> (3)    On button labels I refer both to the 'value' variety and to the
> embedded legend variety.  Also, the use of the newer <BUTTON> construct
> doesn't seem to be respected, and only <INPUT TYPE="BUTTON"> works even
> vaguely like it should.  ANYTHING (button, image, whatever) that has
> provisions for labelling should be able to accommodate a <legend> directive,
> and Netscape doesn't cut it. 

What's a "directive"? There is no "legend" attribute in the standard
and the only use of the LEGEND tag is as a child of FIELDSET.
   <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-LEGEND>

> (4)    For those who are anal-retentive about labelling REAL button widgets
> (as opposed to INPUT TYPE=BUTTON widgets), try the following example:
> 
>         <button name='myButton' type='image' src='blank.gif'
>                     style='background-color: #cccccc; border-style: ridge;
> border: 1pt ridge; height: 18px; width: 60px'
>                     onClick='alert("bite me!")'>
>             <legend align='center' style='text-align: center'>
>                 <font face='arial' color='black' style='font-weight: bold;
> font-size: 7pt'>Bite Me!</font>
>             </legend>
>         </button>

And this isn't valid either -- there's no 'src' attribute to BUTTON,
'image' isn't a valid value for 'type', and I already mentioned the
LEGEND tag ...
   <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON>

You can't use invalid markup and then complain about how a browser
handles it. Well, you can, of course, but it's a bit silly ;-)

And back to the list topic, HTML isn't CSS isn't JavaScript, eh?

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From dlovering at gazos.com  Fri Apr 11 21:15:15 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:15:15 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana><000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana><005401c30065$2e676210$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000f01c30075$fc05fb90$0500000a@arcana>
	<3E97544B.8070706@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <002501c30099$5bf9ce00$0500000a@arcana>

Hmmm... maybe I should get out more...

Admittedly, most of the text elements I work with are jiggered via their CSS
font characteristics, so I was perhaps speaking a bit more ex-cathedra than
necessary...  I was able to confirm that <font> is on the way out --
probably as a sop to the rapidly moving integration of XML and HTML.  On
this point I stand corrected.

More importantly, the size parameter IS supposed to be a relative index
(+/-)[0-7].  Amazing that the thing didn't blow up in my face.  Next time
I'll stand behind a blast shield.

On the subject of BUTTON, if you'll scope out the description on page 383 of
the HTML 4.0 Sourcebook, you'll note that LEGEND is listed as one of the
attributes assignable to BUTTON.  I believe the W3 document backs me on
that, but I'll check to make certain.  Anyhow, it operates as the
description of LEGEND suggests it should, and BUTTON is doing for <INPUT
TYPE="BUTTON"> what CSS style.font is doing for <FONT>.   There are various
examples in the literature of this in use, so if I am confused, at least
I've got buddies.  [And yes, I did use it correctly -- it is bounded by the
<BUTTON></BUTTON> tags].

Another non-canonical usage I got caught with was the use of type='image'
within a <BUTTON> tag.  While it works in IE6, it is plainly a fluke, as it
isn't part of their core syntax. Everyone I talked to suggests that the more
portable (and correct) implementation is

<BUTTON>
  <IMG SRC='myButton.gif' ...>
</BUTTON>

I'll begin retrofitting my code immediately to reflect this.  [If I ever
recall where I got the other style of definition, I'll beat on it with a
stick].  Mea Culpa.  Probably some jerk-ass M$oft tech note I glommed onto
during my misspent youth.

The layering is still managed a bit differently between IE and NN.  I hope
that this is resolved soon, and a lot of folks seem optimistic on this
score.

About the only defense I can use to justify my getting dragged onto this
topic is that JavaScript is rapidly becoming a prototyping language for HTML
, and should therefore have tools for manipulating, creating, and removing
every object type within the base specification.

Thanks for the wake-up call!  I just gave myself three smeech-smeeches in
response.  I'll start sleeping with a W3 spec under my pillow for the
foreseeable future.

-- Dave Lovering



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Fri Apr 11 21:58:13 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:58:13 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Re: Standards
In-Reply-To: <002501c30099$5bf9ce00$0500000a@arcana>
References: 	<A79620C0-6C32-11D7-B196-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><3E96EAAE.6DB9E465@gazos.com><3E96ED5B.1050002@webtuitive.com><000a01c30050$8ed5b620$0500000a@arcana><000a01c30056$62d26950$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000801c30061$41baba50$0500000a@arcana><005401c30065$2e676210$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><000f01c30075$fc05fb90$0500000a@arcana>
	<3E97544B.8070706@webtuitive.com> <002501c30099$5bf9ce00$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <3E9780C5.4000800@webtuitive.com>

David Lovering wrote:

> On the subject of BUTTON, if you'll scope out the description on page 383 of
> the HTML 4.0 Sourcebook, 

I have no idea what the "HTML 4.0 Sourcebook" is. I've always
used the W3C docs as a reference -- the "horse's mouth", etc.
And I generally double-check there before venturing an opinion
online, since my memory -- well, I prefer to check. :-)

> Thanks for the wake-up call!  I just gave myself three smeech-smeeches in
> response.  I'll start sleeping with a W3 spec under my pillow for the
> foreseeable future.

As a standards advocate, I can only say -- no, no, dude, that's just
going too far! Not a recipe for a good night's sleep, I'd think :-)

Best,
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Sat Apr 12 01:32:45 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:32:45 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Page still connected
References: <F507W7aOAU1SPRB2Vyy000695de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201c300bd$552bab10$08e6adcb@k1n8i8>

Can I use Javascript, or some other method to determine if the current page
is still connected to the internet?

Andrew Gibson





From dlovering at gazos.com  Sat Apr 12 12:07:06 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:07:06 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences
	wit
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana>

Paul, et al:

Well, we're almost there.

I discovered that the older Netscapes (4.75-6.0) actually would take the
following constructs:

bogus_91.html:

<html>
<head>
    <title>bogus_91.html</title>
    <script language='JavaScript'>
    <!--
        var theSrc;
        function invoke(theSrc) {
            if (!theSrc) { return -1; }
            if (theSrc == '') { return -1; }
            wrapper.style.display = "none";
            frames["program"].location.href = theSrc;
            wrapper.style.display = "inline";
        }
    // -->
    </script>
</head>
<body>
    <form name='theForm' action='javascript:void(null)'>
        <table align='center' cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 valign='top'
border=1 borderColor='black'>
            <tr>
                <td align='center' valign='middle' cellpadding=0>
                    <input type='button' id='myButton1' name='myButton1'
onClick='invoke("./bogus.php")'
                                value='howdy'
                                style='height: 18px; width: 60px;
vertical-align: top; background-color: #cccccc;
                                            border: 1pt ridge; face: arial;
font-size: 7pt'>
                </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>>td align='center' valign='middle'><input name='myText'
value='' type='text' size=30></td></tr>
        </table>
        <span name='wrapper' id='wrapper' style='display: none'>
        <!-- this executes only when invoked -->
        <iframe id='program' name='program' src='' align='center' height=0
width=0 scrolling='no'
                    style='border: 0; border-style: none; margin-top:
6px'></iframe>
        </span>
    </form>
</body>
</html>

and bogus.php:

<html>
<head>
    <title>bogus.php</title>
    <script language='JavaScript'>
    <!--
        var theText;
        function writeBack(theText) {
            if (!theText) { return -1; }
            if (theText == '') { return -1; }
            if (parent.document.forms) {
                var parentForm = parent.document.forms[0];
                parentForm.myText.value = theText;
            }
        }
    // -->
    </script>
</head>
<body>
    <?php printf("<script> writeBack('Howdy, Partner!'); </script>\n"); ?>
</body>
</html>

This works flawlessly in IE6.0 and up, but doesn't seem to fly in the most
recent versions of Netscape.  Has the definition of IFRAMEs taken a
left-turn in NN land, or is there some peculiar syntax munge necessary to
make your cross-platform code invocation work?

-- Dave Lovering




From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 12 12:48:16 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:48:16 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
Message-ID: <F23byo3WhOgKd9D5nRe0006d456@hotmail.com>

As we've discused it in earlier posts ('moving elements' somebody has added 
this sub msg inadequately), it's Acrobat-Like "page-scrolling script" with 
mouse drag.

Note:It's not for individual element draging!

Use it on a page larger than brwsr rect., and try to scroll the page with 
the mouse drag, or smallen the current one to experience very fast and soft 
scroll.

But in a day or two I will post elemnet dragging script, optimized for any 
absolutely positioned element in the page with added functionality of 
recording the track movement playing it back and reverse, -of course, if you 
like to see it in action.

Regards!


>From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:31:24 +1200
>
>Bekim, I've copied this script as is....what is it supposed to do.....
>
>Just comes up with object required when I try to drag something.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>
>
>Sorry I left without a notice, but i had to. Long time planin a short
>vacation up the mountains, -the very tops, ups!
>
>Very cold weather and furious snowy winds, wisibility='hidden' but it pays.
>
>Anyway,
>here is the script for acrobat-like movement i've written that day:
>
>/*********************************************************************
>Title:       "Acrobat-Like" Page Scroll Script
>Written by:   Bekim Bac? Trojani
>Date:         1:10 PM 4/1/03
>Instructions: To remove scrollbars and retain scrollability
>       Include: style="overflow:hidden" in the <Body> tag
>Compatibility:IE only (this version) version 1.0ie(beta)
>**************Please keep this coment lines if you use it*************
>**********************************************************************/
>var x, y, dx, dy, dB=document.body;
>function enableMove(){
>dB.style.cursor="move" //can't make it work!
>           x=event.screenX
>y=event.screenY
>     dx=x+dB.scrollLeft
>     dy=y+dB.scrollTop
>}
>
>function movingNow(){
>if (window.event.button==1) {
>x=event.screenX
>y=event.screenY
>    dB.scrollLeft = 0-(x-dx)
>    dB.scrollTop  = 0-(y-dy)
>         dB.style.cursor="move"
>}
>}
>
>function setItBack(){dB.style.cursor='';}
>
>function retF(){return false}
>
>document.onmousedown  =enableMove
>document.onmousemove  =movingNow
>document.onmouseup    =setItBack
>document.onselectstart=retF
>document.ondragstart  =retF
>
>It works as charm, very usefull for maps, especialy in popup windows etc.
>
>Excuse my math, is't very unconvetional.
>
>Once you've played around with this script, you will allready miss it at
>other pages.
>(P.S. Might work perfect in >NN4 also, but never tested it)
>
>Cheers!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
> >Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:57:21 +1200
> >
> >====================================
> >Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> >
> >Pardon me for being a dummy, but where on your site do the coding 
>examples
> >you cite actually live?
> >====================================
> >Right here, but they're not coding samples, just demos of the code....but
> >anyone can do a view source for   the code, and you have to view in ie6 
>for
> >the dragging example
> >
> > > www.dscript.net.nz
> > >
> > > then select display, dragging
> >then click example, and drag the image
> >
> >=====================================================================
> >[P.S:  I don't believe in "API Development Tools" either.  Every one I've
> >ever seen is riddled with bugs and incompatibilities, and the learning
> >curve
> >is so steep you never catch up with what the "contemporary" package looks
> >like.  I'm from the OLD days, when men were men, and sheep ran scared, 
>and
> >programming required chipping the 1's and 0's out of granite with your 
>bare
> >hands.]
> >==============================
> >Not even sure what API dev tools are to be honest, with regards to 
>jscript,
> >but if you mean programs like dreamweaver to create code, I agree.....in
> >fact I've never even used anyone elses code without some major rejigging
> >for
> >my own uses.
> >
> >Cheers
> >Andrew Gibson
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Javascript mailing list
> >Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


_________________________________________________________________
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From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 12 13:09:24 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 20:09:24 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
Message-ID: <F30xLhvEbh6Mx1h9EHw0006dc08@hotmail.com>

I admire your script, but it's to messy for me.
I vould rather simply set the maxLength var for the text input and then 
retrieve the length from last onkeyup event to se if the maxLength is met, 
and then set the onkeypress to false, -no other character will ocur and you 
will get rid of that 'flash' forever.

So, try to return the keypress to false after the char limit is met.

Cheers!



>From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:50:41 -0500
>
>I am trying to create a method that limits the character count in a
>TEXTAREA, like MAXLENGTH does in TEXT and PASSWORD.
>
>What I have works (see below), to a point.
>
>What it does is allow another character to flash in the box, and then it is
>removed.
>
>Anyone have any idea on how to interrupt this character entry at this 
>point,
>thus no character flash?
>
>Thanks
>
>Walter
>
>=================
>
>var objTA = [favorite method to get Element Reference]
>
>objTA.onkeypress = setLimit;
>objTA.onkeydown  = setLimit;
>objTA.onkeyup    = setLimit;
>
>function setLimit ( )
>{
>    // Get name of given TEXTAREA
>    var strName = this.id;
>
>    // What is the limit set at for this TEXTAREA
>    var intLimit = new Number ( this.getAttribute("maxlength") );
>
>    // How many characters do we have yet?
>    var intCharRemaing = new Number ( intLimit - this.value.length );
>    if ( intCharRemaing < 0 )
>    {
>       this.value = this.value.substring( 0, intLimit  );
>       intCharRemaing = 0;
>    }
>}
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sat Apr 12 15:04:21 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:04:21 -0700
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences
	wit
In-Reply-To: <001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana>
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com>
	<001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <3E987145.7080202@webtuitive.com>

David Lovering wrote:
> Paul, et al:
> 
> Well, we're almost there.
> 
> I discovered that the older Netscapes (4.75-6.0) actually would take the
> following constructs:

? Netscape 4 doesn't support <IFRAME> at all, and I don't have
a copy of Netscape 6 any longer, but this simplified version of
your example works fine in Moz 1.3b/Win as well as IE 5.5. Does
not seem to work at all in Opera, not much surprise there, but
I didn't spend much time on it, either.

<html>
<head>
<title>bogus_91.html</title>
<script type="text/javascript">
var theSrc;
function invoke(theSrc)
{
	frames["program"].location.href = theSrc;
}
</script>
<style type="text/css">
#program {
	display: none;
	}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<form name="theForm" action="javascript:void(null)">
	<input type="button" id="myButton1" name="myButton1"
		onClick="invoke('/tmp/bogus.jsp');"  value="howdy">
	<input name="myText" value="" type="text" size="30">
		<br />
	<iframe id="program" name="program" src=""></iframe>
</form>
</body>
</html>

Very slick way to fetch data from the server without a page reload!

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Sat Apr 12 16:37:47 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:37:47 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
In-Reply-To: <fc.58d5b08858d5b08858d5b0883b9aca00.5e12c5@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMCEKODDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

set onkeypress to false?  how will you delete the existing contents so you
can reword your sentences to make them short enough to fit?  Doing that
would be like making the enabled property false, and making the control
useless as an input device.

can you have the form event handler trap onkeydown, then get the id of the
firing object to determine the maxlength and simply return false if the
length is reached? (and you're not keying a del/bksp)

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 2:09 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry


I admire your script, but it's to messy for me.
I vould rather simply set the maxLength var for the text input and then
retrieve the length from last onkeyup event to se if the maxLength is met,
and then set the onkeypress to false, -no other character will ocur and
you
will get rid of that 'flash' forever.

So, try to return the keypress to false after the char limit is met.

Cheers!



>>From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
>>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>>Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
>>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:50:41 -0500
>>
>>I am trying to create a method that limits the character count in a
>>TEXTAREA, like MAXLENGTH does in TEXT and PASSWORD.
>>
>>What I have works (see below), to a point.
>>
>>What it does is allow another character to flash in the box, and then it
>is
>>removed.
>>
>>Anyone have any idea on how to interrupt this character entry at this
>>point,
>>thus no character flash?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Walter
>>
>>=================
>>
>>var objTA = [favorite method to get Element Reference]
>>
>>objTA.onkeypress = setLimit;
>>objTA.onkeydown  = setLimit;
>>objTA.onkeyup    = setLimit;
>>
>>function setLimit ( )
>>{
>>    // Get name of given TEXTAREA
>>    var strName = this.id;
>>
>>    // What is the limit set at for this TEXTAREA
>>    var intLimit = new Number ( this.getAttribute("maxlength") );
>>
>>    // How many characters do we have yet?
>>    var intCharRemaing = new Number ( intLimit - this.value.length );
>>    if ( intCharRemaing < 0 )
>>    {
>>       this.value = this.value.substring( 0, intLimit  );
>>       intCharRemaing = 0;
>>    }
>>}
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Javascript mailing list
>>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Sat Apr 12 16:47:19 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:47:19 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferenceswit
References: 	<F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com><001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana>
	<3E987145.7080202@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c3013d$17c7aaa0$0500000a@arcana>

... On checking the revision history of my original test version of Netscape
4.75, I discovered it was a highly tweaked version of Netscape 4.75 --
actually a beta for 6.0, so my test didn't really distinguish between the
two.  Even so, I should have added that although the Netscape packages
"accepted" the code I outlined, this only meant that it didn't generate
syntax or run-time errors -- not that it worked as intended!

While we're bashing Netscape --

One of the other items that I don't like about Netscape is that it jiggers
in about an extra three or four 'px' on the baseline offset for the text for
buttons, etc., meaning that the boundary box has to be enlarged accordingly
to avoid cropping.  Not lethal, but annoying.

-- Dave Lovering

> ? Netscape 4 doesn't support <IFRAME> at all, and I don't have
> a copy of Netscape 6 any longer, but this simplified version of
> your example works fine in Moz 1.3b/Win as well as IE 5.5. Does
> not seem to work at all in Opera, not much surprise there, but
> I didn't spend much time on it, either.

<snip...>

> Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
> Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com




From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Sat Apr 12 19:04:48 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:04:48 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <F23byo3WhOgKd9D5nRe0006d456@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c601c30150$4ce7d8a0$d7e7adcb@k1n8i8>

But in a day or two I will post elemnet dragging script, optimized for any
absolutely positioned element in the page with added functionality of
recording the track movement playing it back and reverse, -of course, if you
like to see it in action.
================================================

Yes please do. I've done element dragging in MSIE, but never been satisfied
with the same effect in NS, at least NS 6 anyway.

Another script I've given thought to is to be able to drag the width of
tables and cells. So that you can adjust the width of a cell, for example,
to highlight better the contents of a cell....a bit like you can do in excel
I suppose.

No doubt someone has done that already...if so, tell us....!

Andrew Gibson






From walter at torres.ws  Sat Apr 12 23:23:03 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:23:03 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
In-Reply-To: <00c601c30150$4ce7d8a0$d7e7adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEOGCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)

I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!

I even added a method to it!

Anyway, maybe this might help you.

Walter

PS: I'd love to have a TABLE COL drag method (like excel)
    I'd also like to see a COL move method, you know, drag
    the COL title around and it moves poistion in the table,
    like OUTLOOK does
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From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Sun Apr 13 02:48:44 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:48:44 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEOGCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <3E99165C.2030308@aflyingstart.net>

If unzipping both html and .js files to same folder one needs to change

<script language="JavaScript1.2" src="../scripts/lib.js"></script>
to
<script language="JavaScript1.2" src="lib.js"></script>

Then it all works.

Rodney


Walter Torres wrote:

>Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
>I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
>I even added a method to it!
>Anyway, maybe this might help you.
>Walter
>
>PS: I'd love to have a TABLE COL drag method (like excel)
>    I'd also like to see a COL move method, you know, drag
>    the COL title around and it moves poistion in the table,
>    like OUTLOOK does
>  
>




From walter at torres.ws  Sun Apr 13 09:16:44 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:16:44 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
In-Reply-To: <3E99165C.2030308@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCEEOJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

oops, sorry!

walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Rodney Myers
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 2:49 AM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> 
> 
> If unzipping both html and .js files to same folder one needs to change
> 
> <script language="JavaScript1.2" src="../scripts/lib.js"></script>
> to
> <script language="JavaScript1.2" src="lib.js"></script>
> 
> Then it all works.
> 
> Rodney
> 
> 
> Walter Torres wrote:
> 
> >Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
> >I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
> >I even added a method to it!
> >Anyway, maybe this might help you.
> >Walter
> >
> >PS: I'd love to have a TABLE COL drag method (like excel)
> >    I'd also like to see a COL move method, you know, drag
> >    the COL title around and it moves poistion in the table,
> >    like OUTLOOK does
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Sun Apr 13 11:55:38 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:55:38 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Signed Scripts vis-a-vis Javascript
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEOGCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
	<3E99165C.2030308@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <3E999687.10704221@gazos.com>


Does anyone have a method for signing scripts that does not rely on the Java (.jar) method, but rather uses some analog in JavaScript?  The literature on the subject of signed scripts is a bit nebulous on the back-end methods required for recognition of
"signage".  Both the standard IE and Netscape literature include Java examples, but don't explicitly say that this is the ONLY technique.  Since I'd like to be able to generate signed scripts on the fly (using JavaScript), and can't count on having a
fully-sussed JVM engine on both sides (server and client), this might be rather useful.  However, I do realize that security issues might make this a pipe-dream.

-- Dave Lovering

From dlovering at gazos.com  Sun Apr 13 12:04:30 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:04:30 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEOGCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <3E99989A.B53F6E91@gazos.com>


Very nice.  What's the provenance on this?  I don't want to start
incorporating bits of the library willy-nilly into my code, only to
discover 8 months later that it is copyrighted to somebody and I 
have to pay them beaucoups bucks in copyright infringement penalties
and/or royalties.

-- Dave Lovering

Walter Torres wrote:

> Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
> I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
> I even added a method to it!

From walter at torres.ws  Sun Apr 13 13:15:28 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:15:28 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
In-Reply-To: <3E99989A.B53F6E91@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEOJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

I understand...

>From the site...

[http://www.dhtmlcentral.com/txt/?m=45]

"All images, scripts and text on this site is copyrighted to Thomas Brattli,
DHTMLCentral.com unless otherwise stated.

All scripts in the scripts section and the coolMenus script are free to use
as long the copyright notice in the source is intact."

Also, wasn't this text in the header of lib.js?

/***************************************************************************
*
DHTML library from DHTMLCentral.com
*   Copyright (C) 2001 Thomas Brattli 2001
*   This script was released at DHTMLCentral.com
*   Visit for more great scripts!
*   This may be used and changed freely as long as this msg is intact!
*   We will also appreciate any links you could give us.
*
*   Made by Thomas Brattli 2001
***************************************************************************/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of David T. Lovering
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>
>
>
> Very nice.  What's the provenance on this?  I don't want to start
> incorporating bits of the library willy-nilly into my code, only to
> discover 8 months later that it is copyrighted to somebody and I
> have to pay them beaucoups bucks in copyright infringement penalties
> and/or royalties.
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> Walter Torres wrote:
>
> > Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
> > I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
> > I even added a method to it!
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Sun Apr 13 13:55:48 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:55:48 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEOJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <000401c301ee$4c68d9d0$0500000a@arcana>

Ah... yes.  However, it is generally a good practice to state this up-front
when distributing a script or library (irrespective of what comments may/may
not be contained within).  In point of fact I hadn't dug into the source
code yet, so I'd missed it.  Mea Culpa.

Thanks again for posting it.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Moving elements


> I understand...
>
> >From the site...
>
> [http://www.dhtmlcentral.com/txt/?m=45]
>
> "All images, scripts and text on this site is copyrighted to Thomas
Brattli,
> DHTMLCentral.com unless otherwise stated.
>
> All scripts in the scripts section and the coolMenus script are free to
use
> as long the copyright notice in the source is intact."
>
> Also, wasn't this text in the header of lib.js?
>
>
/***************************************************************************
> *
> DHTML library from DHTMLCentral.com
> *   Copyright (C) 2001 Thomas Brattli 2001
> *   This script was released at DHTMLCentral.com
> *   Visit for more great scripts!
> *   This may be used and changed freely as long as this msg is intact!
> *   We will also appreciate any links you could give us.
> *
> *   Made by Thomas Brattli 2001
>
***************************************************************************/
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of David T. Lovering
> > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:05 PM
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> >
> >
> >
> > Very nice.  What's the provenance on this?  I don't want to start
> > incorporating bits of the library willy-nilly into my code, only to
> > discover 8 months later that it is copyrighted to somebody and I
> > have to pay them beaucoups bucks in copyright infringement penalties
> > and/or royalties.
> >
> > -- Dave Lovering
> >
> > Walter Torres wrote:
> >
> > > Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
> > > I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
> > > I even added a method to it!
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 13 15:58:35 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:58:35 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
Message-ID: <F56y19a1oKghrxCIxQZ0002c74b@hotmail.com>

you wrote:
>set onkeypress to false?  how will you delete the existing contents so you 
>can reword your sentences to make them short enough to fit?

I say:
simply with "bck space" and/or the "del" key!

than you wrote:
>can you have the form event handler trap onkeydown, then get the id of the
>firing object to determine the maxlength and simply return false if the
>length is reached? (and you're not keying a del/bksp)

than I say:
YES!

>From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: RE: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:37:47 -0400
>
>set onkeypress to false?  how will you delete the existing contents so you
>can reword your sentences to make them short enough to fit?  Doing that
>would be like making the enabled property false, and making the control
>useless as an input device.
>
>can you have the form event handler trap onkeydown, then get the id of the
>firing object to determine the maxlength and simply return false if the
>length is reached? (and you're not keying a del/bksp)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
>Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 2:09 PM
>To: javascript at latech.edu
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
>
>
>I admire your script, but it's to messy for me.
>I vould rather simply set the maxLength var for the text input and then
>retrieve the length from last onkeyup event to se if the maxLength is met,
>and then set the onkeypress to false, -no other character will ocur and
>you
>will get rid of that 'flash' forever.
>
>So, try to return the keypress to false after the char limit is met.
>
>Cheers!
>
>
>
> >>From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
> >>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> >>Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
> >>Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:50:41 -0500
> >>
> >>I am trying to create a method that limits the character count in a
> >>TEXTAREA, like MAXLENGTH does in TEXT and PASSWORD.
> >>
> >>What I have works (see below), to a point.
> >>
> >>What it does is allow another character to flash in the box, and then it
> >is
> >>removed.
> >>
> >>Anyone have any idea on how to interrupt this character entry at this
> >>point,
> >>thus no character flash?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Walter
> >>
> >>=================
> >>
> >>var objTA = [favorite method to get Element Reference]
> >>
> >>objTA.onkeypress = setLimit;
> >>objTA.onkeydown  = setLimit;
> >>objTA.onkeyup    = setLimit;
> >>
> >>function setLimit ( )
> >>{
> >>    // Get name of given TEXTAREA
> >>    var strName = this.id;
> >>
> >>    // What is the limit set at for this TEXTAREA
> >>    var intLimit = new Number ( this.getAttribute("maxlength") );
> >>
> >>    // How many characters do we have yet?
> >>    var intCharRemaing = new Number ( intLimit - this.value.length );
> >>    if ( intCharRemaing < 0 )
> >>    {
> >>       this.value = this.value.substring( 0, intLimit  );
> >>       intCharRemaing = 0;
> >>    }
> >>}
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Javascript mailing list
> >>Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


_________________________________________________________________
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From dlovering at gazos.com  Sun Apr 13 16:55:08 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:55:08 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] 
	Javascript to adjust cursor appearance on frame boundaries
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEOGCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
	<3E99165C.2030308@aflyingstart.net> <3E999687.10704221@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <3E99DC8F.B30BDEE3@gazos.com>


Here's another puzzler -- what is the JavaScript coding required to change the appearance of the cursor (both for drag and/or mouseOver events) on the boundary line between two frames?  Inside the frame is easy -- but the boundaries don't seem to have a
DOM designation (or if they do, it is cunningly concealed from dim-bulbs such as myself).

-- Dave Lovering

From walter at torres.ws  Sun Apr 13 19:08:46 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:08:46 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements
In-Reply-To: <000401c301ee$4c68d9d0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCEEOLCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

noted

walter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of David Lovering
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 1:56 PM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> 
> 
> Ah... yes.  However, it is generally a good practice to state 
> this up-front
> when distributing a script or library (irrespective of what 
> comments may/may
> not be contained within).  In point of fact I hadn't dug into the source
> code yet, so I'd missed it.  Mea Culpa.
> 
> Thanks again for posting it.
> 
> -- Dave Lovering
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Moving elements
> 
> 
> > I understand...
> >
> > >From the site...
> >
> > [http://www.dhtmlcentral.com/txt/?m=45]
> >
> > "All images, scripts and text on this site is copyrighted to Thomas
> Brattli,
> > DHTMLCentral.com unless otherwise stated.
> >
> > All scripts in the scripts section and the coolMenus script are free to
> use
> > as long the copyright notice in the source is intact."
> >
> > Also, wasn't this text in the header of lib.js?
> >
> >
> /*****************************************************************
**********
> > *
> > DHTML library from DHTMLCentral.com
> > *   Copyright (C) 2001 Thomas Brattli 2001
> > *   This script was released at DHTMLCentral.com
> > *   Visit for more great scripts!
> > *   This may be used and changed freely as long as this msg is intact!
> > *   We will also appreciate any links you could give us.
> > *
> > *   Made by Thomas Brattli 2001
> >
> ******************************************************************
> *********/
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of David T. Lovering
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:05 PM
> > > To: [JavaScript List]
> > > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Very nice.  What's the provenance on this?  I don't want to start
> > > incorporating bits of the library willy-nilly into my code, only to
> > > discover 8 months later that it is copyrighted to somebody and I
> > > have to pay them beaucoups bucks in copyright infringement penalties
> > > and/or royalties.
> > >
> > > -- Dave Lovering
> > >
> > > Walter Torres wrote:
> > >
> > > > Attached is dynomite X-Browser dHTML library (with example page)
> > > > I found this some time ago, and have been using it ever since!
> > > > I even added a method to it!
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 14 00:36:38 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:36:38 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Javascript to adjust cursor appearance on frame
	boundaries
Message-ID: <F55TaogxLDp7mvjkO22000002aa@hotmail.com>



>Here's another puzzler -- what is the JavaScript coding required to change 
>the appearance of the cursor (both for drag and/or mouseOver events) on the 
>boundary line between two frames?  Inside the frame is easy -- but the 
>boundaries don't seem to have a
>DOM designation (or if they do, it is cunningly concealed from dim-bulbs 
>such as myself).

Try the frameset. If that doesn't work, nothing will.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Mon Apr 14 00:40:13 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:40:13 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Javascript to adjust cursor appearance on
	frameboundaries
References: <F55TaogxLDp7mvjkO22000002aa@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004601c30248$58774c20$f6e6adcb@k1n8i8>

Isn't there some security issues with frames...something about the 2 pages
can be in different domains....don't know why that might be an issue....I
suppose if you had someone elses page there, you could change it with
jscript

>Here's another puzzler -- what is the JavaScript coding required to change
>the appearance of the cursor (both for drag and/or mouseOver events) on the
>boundary line between two frames?  Inside the frame is easy -- but the
>boundaries don't seem to have a
>DOM designation (or if they do, it is cunningly concealed from dim-bulbs
>such as myself).

Try the frameset. If that doesn't work, nothing will.




From christ at saeweb.com  Mon Apr 14 07:45:25 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:45:25 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEOACBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <00e701c30283$b87320f0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> I have all the code to:
>  - parse all TEXTAREAS on a document
>  - discover if a MAXLENGTH is defined and if it is larger than ZERO
>  - get length of value
>  - compare it to MAXLENGTH value
>  - replace value with only set character count
>
> But the last character entered flashes. I'm trying to no have that happen.

To do this, you have to return false on the keypress which keeps the
character from being entered. From the looks of it, you're checking the
length, determining if it's too long, THEN removing it.  Thus the quick
appearance
and then disappearance.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


From christ at saeweb.com  Mon Apr 14 07:58:07 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:58:07 -0400
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferenceswit
References: 	<F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com><001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana><3E987145.7080202@webtuitive.com>
	<000e01c3013d$17c7aaa0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <013201c30285$7f19a980$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> Even so, I should have added that although the Netscape packages
> "accepted" the code I outlined, this only meant that it didn't generate
> syntax or run-time errors -- not that it worked as intended!

Did you actually type "javascript:" in your Address bar to double-check
this? This is one thing I dislike about NN. As a developer, I should easily
be able to see that an error has occurred on a page.  I guess for surfers
it's better this way, but...

Chris Tifer


From walter at torres.ws  Mon Apr 14 09:26:00 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:26:00 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
In-Reply-To: <00e701c30283$b87320f0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEONCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

Your evaluation is correct.

And your suggestion is exaclty how I fixed it.

Walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Chris Tifer
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:45 AM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Q on interuppting char entry
> 
> 
> > I have all the code to:
> >  - parse all TEXTAREAS on a document
> >  - discover if a MAXLENGTH is defined and if it is larger than ZERO
> >  - get length of value
> >  - compare it to MAXLENGTH value
> >  - replace value with only set character count
> >
> > But the last character entered flashes. I'm trying to no have 
> that happen.
> 
> To do this, you have to return false on the keypress which keeps the
> character from being entered. From the looks of it, you're checking the
> length, determining if it's too long, THEN removing it.  Thus the quick
> appearance
> and then disappearance.
> 
> Chris Tifer
> http://emailajoke.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 11:05:29 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:05:29 -0700
Subject: [Javascript]Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferenceswit
References: <F32aOuQ15jM1wrv0BFF0001e907@hotmail.com><001301c30115$f27d3a20$0500000a@arcana><3E987145.7080202@webtuitive.com>
	<013201c30285$7f19a980$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3E9ADC2C.898C33D0@gazos.com>

In answer to your question, yes I did.  No JavaScript error -- but that doesn't
mean that the IFRAME (HTML) code worked!  If the HTML code craps out, you may or
may not get a recognizable error -- something else that steams me!

-- Dave Lovering

Chris Tifer wrote:
> 
> Did you actually type "javascript:" in your Address bar to double-check
> this? This is one thing I dislike about NN. As a developer, I should easily
> be able to see that an error has occurred on a page.  I guess for surfers
> it's better this way, but...?

From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 12:08:27 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:08:27 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F365FPhTQJYpSxiAzFP00007cdc@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E9AEAE6.F4A6AAA0@gazos.com>


A few weeks back a discussion on this board took place about determining whether or not
objects had actually been 'loaded', or were merely in a state of transition.  

This problem has already been addressed in IE-land (5.5+) with the readyState attribute,
which can be used thusly --

	var myState = object.readyState;

	switch (myState) {

	case "unitialized" 	: 	<do something>
						 	break;

	case "loading"	 	:	<do something>
							break;

	case "loaded"		:	<do something>
							break;

	case "interactive"	:	<do something>
							break;

	case "complete"		:	<do something>
							break;

	default				: 	<do something>

	} // switch

In general, before you can start messing with any interior data (checking for values, assigning values, etc.), you
need to be in the 'complete' state.

Sadly, I can find no reference to anything similar in Netscape.  Does anybody have anything which might be equivalent in function?

-- Dave Lovering

From rer at datacompusa.com  Mon Apr 14 12:12:27 2003
From: rer at datacompusa.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:12:27 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] 
	Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP) codereferences
In-Reply-To: <20030414170002.A1A18308DBA@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <44892623-6E9C-11D7-A183-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>


On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 08:58 AM, "Chris Tifer" 
<christ at saeweb.com> wrote:

>> Even so, I should have added that although the Netscape packages
>> "accepted" the code I outlined, this only meant that it didn't 
>> generate syntax or run-time errors -- not that it worked as intended!
>
> Did you actually type "javascript:" in your Address bar to 
> double-check this? This is one thing I dislike about NN. As a 
> developer, I should easily be able to see that an error has occurred

I have always used the javascript console.  Are there versions of NN 
that don't have this feature?

Roger,


From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 12:17:14 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:17:14 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)
	codereferences
References: <44892623-6E9C-11D7-A183-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
Message-ID: <000601c302a9$b1dbb380$0500000a@arcana>

I believe ALL the Netscape bundles I've seen have it.

-- Dave Lovering

> I have always used the javascript console.  Are there versions of NN 
> that don't have this feature?
> 
> Roger




From christ at saeweb.com  Mon Apr 14 12:32:49 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:32:49 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)
	codereferences
References: <44892623-6E9C-11D7-A183-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
Message-ID: <001801c302ab$deef6540$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

None that I know of, but I much rather prefer IE's option of just
having it pop-up, or alerting you down in your status bar of an error.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Roelofs" <rer at datacompusa.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:12 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)
codereferences


>
> On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 08:58 AM, "Chris Tifer"
> <christ at saeweb.com> wrote:
>
> >> Even so, I should have added that although the Netscape packages
> >> "accepted" the code I outlined, this only meant that it didn't
> >> generate syntax or run-time errors -- not that it worked as intended!
> >
> > Did you actually type "javascript:" in your Address bar to
> > double-check this? This is one thing I dislike about NN. As a
> > developer, I should easily be able to see that an error has occurred
>
> I have always used the javascript console.  Are there versions of NN
> that don't have this feature?
>
> Roger,
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Mon Apr 14 12:33:54 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:33:54 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)
	codereferences
References: <44892623-6E9C-11D7-A183-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com>
	<000601c302a9$b1dbb380$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <3E9AF102.9070808@aflyingstart.net>

In general I find NN error messages to be MUCH more explicit and helpful 
in identifying line numbers and file names (and more). MSIE leaves me 
guessing about that - a real issue if using  a lot of frames and .js 
files  : "line 87 of _which_ file was that exactly???"

The only really annoying thing was when it would show up errors in NN's 
own "chrome" code, esp in NN6 but imho 6.x was more of a disaster than a 
browser.

Once you get over the errors being in a separate console then it is a 
good experience.

One trick I have used is to make javascript: the browsers home page so 
one click on the Home button brings up the console. Not mcuh good if you 
really wanted a home page, but about:blank does me for MSIE.


Rodney

David Lovering wrote:

>I believe ALL the Netscape bundles I've seen have it.
>
>-- Dave Lovering
>
>  
>
>>I have always used the javascript console.  Are there versions of NN 
>>that don't have this feature?
>>
>>Roger
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>




From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 12:42:11 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:42:11 -0600
Subject: [Javascript]
	Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences
References: 	<44892623-6E9C-11D7-A183-00306572FCC8@datacompusa.com><000601c302a9$b1dbb380$0500000a@arcana>
	<3E9AF102.9070808@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <001801c302ad$311ba940$0500000a@arcana>

I'll second that first remark.  IE is practically useless in tracking actual
syntax errors, as it flags not the line in the code where the syntax goes
south, but the point where a lethal error breaks the code execution.  NN is
much better about pointing to the line with the busted code, or its
immediate predecessor/successor.  [And it generally is right-on about the
filename with the error -- IE sucks in this regard, as it confuses parent
and child entries, frame src objects, etc.]

If you don't actually want to whack your homepage, both NN and IE have a
'favorites' bar (although I seem to recall that NN has some other name for
it).  You can slap a generic entry on it, and point its contents to
javascript:, and get the same result.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney Myers" <rodney at aflyingstart.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript]
Passive,Javascript-callable,in-line(PHP)codereferences


> In general I find NN error messages to be MUCH more explicit and helpful
> in identifying line numbers and file names (and more). MSIE leaves me
> guessing about that - a real issue if using  a lot of frames and .js
> files  : "line 87 of _which_ file was that exactly???"
>
> The only really annoying thing was when it would show up errors in NN's
> own "chrome" code, esp in NN6 but imho 6.x was more of a disaster than a
> browser.
>
> Once you get over the errors being in a separate console then it is a
> good experience.
>
> One trick I have used is to make javascript: the browsers home page so
> one click on the Home button brings up the console. Not mcuh good if you
> really wanted a home page, but about:blank does me for MSIE.
>
>
> Rodney
>
> David Lovering wrote:
>
> >I believe ALL the Netscape bundles I've seen have it.
> >
> >-- Dave Lovering
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have always used the javascript console.  Are there versions of NN
> >>that don't have this feature?
> >>
> >>Roger
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From peter at brunone.com  Mon Apr 14 13:00:34 2003
From: peter at brunone.com (Peter Brunone)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:00:34 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
In-Reply-To: <20030414173248.23609.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CIEDIMKHOBJDFFNLECOPGEFBEIAA.peter@brunone.com>


	Gee, David (Merchant, not Lovering)... think it's time to go full mod
again?

	I don't know about anybody else, but it doesn't take any more than an
anonymous rant by "Hyper X" to convince me that this list is crooked...

:-D

Peter

|-----Original Message-----
|From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
|[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Hyper X
|Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 12:33 PM
|To: [JavaScript List]
|Subject: [Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
|
|THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
|
|Please do not encourage this list.
|
|The list moderator is stealing all the email addresses
|from other groups and subscribing without permission.
|
|--- David Lovering <dlovering at gazos.com> wrote:
|> I believe ALL the Netscape bundles I've seen have
|> it.
|>
|> -- Dave Lovering
|>
|> > I have always used the javascript console.  Are
|> there versions of NN
|> > that don't have this feature?
|> >
|> > Roger


From noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca  Mon Apr 14 13:24:45 2003
From: noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca (noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:24:45 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
Message-ID: <2080032057b7.2057b7208003@sitel.uqam.ca>

hello, 
I use frames in my site, but I will want to remove them some many 
reasons... 
I would like to have comments on the alternative solutions with the 
frames.  I know how to use the ssi, layers but I would like to know 
the advantages incovenients. 
Thanks


From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Mon Apr 14 13:38:21 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:38:21 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
In-Reply-To: <CIEDIMKHOBJDFFNLECOPGEFBEIAA.peter@brunone.com>
References: <20030414173248.23609.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030414132021.0281ce88@mail.latech.edu>


>|-----Original Message-----
>|From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
>|[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Hyper X
>|Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 12:33 PM
>|To: [JavaScript List]
>|Subject: [Javascript] THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
>|
>|THIS JAVASCRIPT LIST IS A SPAM!
>|
>|Please do not encourage this list.
>|
>|The list moderator is stealing all the email addresses
>|from other groups and subscribing without permission.

The email addresses where from the JavaScript membership database on the 
Yahoo side of this list. I've explained this before, I've explained it more 
than once. The membership lists I merged together were both from the same 
list, a list that I own.

On eGroups the JavaScript list was merely being "mirrored" there, people 
could not join the JavaScript list via eGroups, they could only view posts 
via a Web interface and also the archives. When Yahoo Groups bought 
eGroups, they, _without asking me_, changed things so that people could 
also "subscribe" via Yahoo, acted as if the list was being hosted by Yahoo. 
Giving the list a split personality, one side of which I no longer had any 
control over (could not help people unsubscribe, change list settings to 
reflect list settings on the other half, etc).

Why would I take addresses from other groups and subscribe without 
permission? What would that gain for me? I get no money from having new 
members, and a larger list means more of my spare time to administer, 
including dealing with irate folks. So where is the benefit for me? None. 
Zero. Zilch.

For those that missed this the first few times:

Over 2 years ago when eGroups (which was just archiving JavaScript list 
postings) was bought out by Yahoo! Groups, Yahoo, _without my permission_, 
basically usurped the list, made it appear that it was being hosted by 
Yahoo/eGroups. Yahoo also did not give me any access to my own list on the 
Yahoo side. So if any of the 900+ members of the JavaScript list that were 
on the Yahoo side of the list had any problems with their list membership, 
I could never be of help to them. The membership list I brought over from 
the Yahoo side of this list, is the membership of this list. People had 
either signed up year ago and forgot (their email set to nomail by 
themselves, or by Yahoo! when their email had a momentary bouncing 
problem), or someone signed them up (not my fault), or they got issued an 
email address from their company - the previous owner of that email 
addresses had signed up to the list. I have NOT grabbed email addresses 
from any other list. Makes no sense for me to do it, as I said above, there 
is no benefit for me, none. Only extra work, extra headache.

I repeatedly tried to get Yahoo to fix the situation. Finally I got someone 
to respond last week. They gave me access to the usurped side of the list. 
However, they now turned it back to mirroring and so all the people that 
had signed up to the list and were able to post via the Yahoo side (which 
was forwarding their posts to the real list address), were no longer able 
to post to the list. There was no way for me to send out a post to them to 
let them know what was happening (yes, I tried). I unsubscribed those that 
looked to have their membership disabled because of too many bounces. And 
then merged the two membership halves together. And then deleted the Yahoo 
side (since the older parts of the archives were being deleted by Yahoo 
anyway as the archives on Yahoo has a 64 MB limit, thus the archives of the 
list on its real home server contained more posts now).

Two problems occurred:

1) there were 6 bad addresses that just bounced and bounced and kept on 
bouncing like some perpetual ping pong machine. I got over 2,000 bounced 
messages. Took me forever to get through those.  My apologies for that. I 
figured there'd be some bounces, but not 2,000. Why those 6 bad addresses 
didn't have a bad bounce history on Yahoo! Groups is beyond me.

2) Unfortunately, since I was unable to access the usurped side for over 
two years, some folk had set their accounts to nomail and they forgot about 
the list, or at the company they worked at they were given the email 
address of a previous worker (a few companies do that, believe it or no) 
who had signed up to the list unbeknownst to the new owner of the email 
address, or maybe someone else signed them up without their knowing. My 
apologies to those people.

On top of this all, LA Tech has upgraded the list serv software, and I'm 
working on learning the new features and functions and settings.

Thanks to the folks who sent me mature, civil and even supportive emails. I 
was pleasantly surprised to see that the positive emails outnumbered the 
negative ones almost 3:1. I believe in the importance of this list, I am 
not doing this for money, and any time administering is out of my spare 
time and so I never intend to cause grief for the members, or to 
forcibly/secretively sign up people to the list (what would that gain for 
me? I get no money from having new members, and a larger list means more of 
my spare time to administer).

For the others who were very hateful and juvenile in their emails to me, 
sometimes despite all good efforts, bad stuff happens in life. The list 
will stand back up from this trip, and be the useful and important resource 
to JavaScripters that it has been for these many years. I now can help all 
members of the list, and not just half of them, and I've learned even more 
about list administration and so you've gotten an even more experienced 
list administrator because of all this.

Now if you have a problem with this, unsubscribe: 
https://lists.latech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript and scroll down to the 
bottom. If that doesn't work for whatever reasons, then email me and I will 
unsubscribe you. I usually am able to unsub people the same day, often 
within minutes of my getting their email.

TTFN,
David

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 14 14:28:25 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:28:25 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
Message-ID: <F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com>



>A few weeks back a discussion on this board took place about determining 
>whether or not objects had actually been 'loaded', or were merely in a 
>state of transition.
>
>This problem has already been addressed in IE-land (5.5+) with the 
>readyState attribute,

>In general, before you can start messing with any interior data (checking 
>for values, assigning values, etc.), you
>need to be in the 'complete' state.
>
>Sadly, I can find no reference to anything similar in Netscape.  Does 
>anybody have anything which might be equivalent in function?

onLoad, simply onLoad. Any script that runs onLoad can access any part of 
the document structure.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Mon Apr 14 14:53:35 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:53:35 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
In-Reply-To: <fc.745964b2745964b273785f953b9aca00.5e531a@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMGENDDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

I'm not sure exactly what your use is...

  My understanding is that frames were used to make the presentation of
several pages easier to support. ie: define the frame with a "Top Logo",
"Left Navbar", "Bottom Navbar", and only the "Content" area is dynamic.
This would allow the Logo and navbars to be tweaked in their respective
single .htm(l) file, while the content would be managed separately.

  I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
frames...

  The same page layout can be generated with server side includes (ssi) like
you mentioned.  This still allows a single storage for the "Top Logo" and
"Left Navbar" etc., but removes many of the frame-problems.  Each page of
content gets it's own URL - so you can bookmark/favorite individual pages
(one of my biggest complaints about framed sites) and the navigation never
has to worry about which frame to target.

<table>
 <tr>
  <td colspan='2'><!-- #include virtual="/inc/TopLogo.asp" --></td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td><!-- #include virtual="/inc/LeftNav.asp" --></td>
  <td><!-- #include virtual="/inc/Content.asp" --></td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td colspan='2'><!-- #include virtual="/inc/BottomNav.asp" --></td>
 </tr>
</table>

When you strip out all the extra formatting, this table looks a great deal
like a frameset.  The content.asp file could be reading the URL/Querystring
to determine what to display as dynamic content.

FYI: my experience is primarily Microsoft.  The IIS web server will first
parse your #include directives first, then process all the ASP code, then
send the resulting HTML to the browser.  So you won't be able to do a
"dynamic include" using ASP  [ex: <!-- #include virtual="/inc/content<%
=lcContentIndex %>.asp" --> just won't work]

My solution is to research IIS5/ASP3's server.execute - which is a pretty
workable equivalent.

I'm so off-topic and rambling, i'm going to stop now :)


-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 4:32 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames



Well, if one is sufficiently courageous, one can do some heavy dinking
with createElement("td"), createElement("tr"), and modifying the resulting
objects with .innerHTML assignments, but it is a real pain to have to drop
in the
umpety-ump gazillion HTML/javascript lines into a table by hand.  Yes,
it is doable.  Yes, I've done it (for small tables).  No, I wouldn't want
to do it for full-fledged window applications running on a web interface.

Aside from layers, frames are scalable, and can be shrunk or expanded at
will.
By attaching scrollbar widgets to a table, you can achieve much the same
effect,
but the coding is a bit more gruesome.

Probably the greatest single drawback to using tables versus frames, is
that you
have only one 'window' geometry to play with, and everything has to be
based on
absolute screen coordinates.  This doesn't hurt if you never do any
image-maps or
drag-and-drop stuff, but it's hell-on-wheels if you do.  Again, it can be
managed,
but it is somewhat more complicated.

I'm sure the older (? are there such things ?) and wiser JavaScript gurus
will now
come out of the woodwork, and shoot my naive impressions full of holes.

-- Dave Lovering

noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca wrote:
>>
>> hello,
>> I use frames in my site, but I will want to remove them some many
>> reasons...
>> I would like to have comments on the alternative solutions with the
>> frames.  I know how to use the ssi, layers but I would like to know
>> the advantages incovenients.
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Javascript mailing list
>> Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 15:31:30 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:31:30 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <2080032057b7.2057b7208003@sitel.uqam.ca>
Message-ID: <3E9B1A5F.F45B10F0@gazos.com>


Well, if one is sufficiently courageous, one can do some heavy dinking
with createElement("td"), createElement("tr"), and modifying the resulting
objects with .innerHTML assignments, but it is a real pain to have to drop in the 
umpety-ump gazillion HTML/javascript lines into a table by hand.  Yes,
it is doable.  Yes, I've done it (for small tables).  No, I wouldn't want
to do it for full-fledged window applications running on a web interface.

Aside from layers, frames are scalable, and can be shrunk or expanded at will.
By attaching scrollbar widgets to a table, you can achieve much the same effect,
but the coding is a bit more gruesome.

Probably the greatest single drawback to using tables versus frames, is that you
have only one 'window' geometry to play with, and everything has to be based on
absolute screen coordinates.  This doesn't hurt if you never do any image-maps or
drag-and-drop stuff, but it's hell-on-wheels if you do.  Again, it can be managed,
but it is somewhat more complicated.

I'm sure the older (? are there such things ?) and wiser JavaScript gurus will now
come out of the woodwork, and shoot my naive impressions full of holes.

-- Dave Lovering

noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca wrote:
> 
> hello,
> I use frames in my site, but I will want to remove them some many
> reasons...
> I would like to have comments on the alternative solutions with the
> frames.  I know how to use the ssi, layers but I would like to know
> the advantages incovenients.
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 15:41:43 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:41:43 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c302c6$427c04f0$0500000a@arcana>

With all due respect, "onLoad" doesn't quite cut it on multiframe,
ultra-humongous items.
I've personally seen 'onload' go hot, and then the handler script tried to
address items (particularly inside
frames), only to generate an error message of the sort "<blah... blah>
object expected".
Trying the same script element a second or two later worked perfectly.

Mind you, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this ... particularly if the
problem was due to some
bizarro consequence of my earlier funky coding eccentricities.  [But I don't
think it is].  Also,
even if the objects are "loaded", is this the same as being "complete"?  I
have no idea.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


>
>
> >A few weeks back a discussion on this board took place about determining
> >whether or not objects had actually been 'loaded', or were merely in a
> >state of transition.
> >
> >This problem has already been addressed in IE-land (5.5+) with the
> >readyState attribute,
>
> >In general, before you can start messing with any interior data (checking
> >for values, assigning values, etc.), you
> >need to be in the 'complete' state.
> >
> >Sadly, I can find no reference to anything similar in Netscape.  Does
> >anybody have anything which might be equivalent in function?
>
> onLoad, simply onLoad. Any script that runs onLoad can access any part of
> the document structure.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ppk, freelance web developer
> Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From christ at saeweb.com  Mon Apr 14 15:47:53 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:47:53 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com>
	<000401c302c6$427c04f0$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <000c01c302c7$1f68dfa0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I believe onLoad will work, but I'm not quite sure what
"multiframe ultra-humongous items" are. How could anything
be multiframe?  Maybe I'm not thinking enough because it's
close to 5, but I just don't see what you're getting at.

Chris Tifer

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> With all due respect, "onLoad" doesn't quite cut it on multiframe,
> ultra-humongous items.
> I've personally seen 'onload' go hot, and then the handler script tried to
> address items (particularly inside
> frames), only to generate an error message of the sort "<blah... blah>
> object expected".
> Trying the same script element a second or two later worked perfectly.
>
> Mind you, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this ... particularly if the
> problem was due to some
> bizarro consequence of my earlier funky coding eccentricities.  [But I
don't
> think it is].  Also,
> even if the objects are "loaded", is this the same as being "complete"?  I
> have no idea.
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
> To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> >
> >
> > >A few weeks back a discussion on this board took place about
determining
> > >whether or not objects had actually been 'loaded', or were merely in a
> > >state of transition.
> > >
> > >This problem has already been addressed in IE-land (5.5+) with the
> > >readyState attribute,
> >
> > >In general, before you can start messing with any interior data
(checking
> > >for values, assigning values, etc.), you
> > >need to be in the 'complete' state.
> > >
> > >Sadly, I can find no reference to anything similar in Netscape.  Does
> > >anybody have anything which might be equivalent in function?
> >
> > onLoad, simply onLoad. Any script that runs onLoad can access any part
of
> > the document structure.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > ppk, freelance web developer
> > Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> > Column "Keep it Simple":
http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> > --------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 16:16:41 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:16:41 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: 	<F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com><000401c302c6$427c04f0$0500000a@arcana>
	<000c01c302c7$1f68dfa0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <001a01c302cb$252abb80$0500000a@arcana>

Multi-frame, as in a frameset with multiple frame definitions.

Ultra-humongous: each frame references external source files with 4MB+ of
working code (HTML, PHP, Java applets, JavaScript, etc.), of which almost
none is image based.  I've seen similar problems with smaller files, but the
case is blatant when things are so big.

-- Dave Lovering


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tifer" <christ at saeweb.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> I believe onLoad will work, but I'm not quite sure what
> "multiframe ultra-humongous items" are. How could anything
> be multiframe?  Maybe I'm not thinking enough because it's
> close to 5, but I just don't see what you're getting at.
>
> Chris Tifer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> > With all due respect, "onLoad" doesn't quite cut it on multiframe,
> > ultra-humongous items.
> > I've personally seen 'onload' go hot, and then the handler script tried
to
> > address items (particularly inside
> > frames), only to generate an error message of the sort "<blah... blah>
> > object expected".
> > Trying the same script element a second or two later worked perfectly.
> >
> > Mind you, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this ... particularly if the
> > problem was due to some
> > bizarro consequence of my earlier funky coding eccentricities.  [But I
> don't
> > think it is].  Also,
> > even if the objects are "loaded", is this the same as being "complete"?
I
> > have no idea.
> >
> > -- Dave Lovering
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
> > To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >A few weeks back a discussion on this board took place about
> determining
> > > >whether or not objects had actually been 'loaded', or were merely in
a
> > > >state of transition.
> > > >
> > > >This problem has already been addressed in IE-land (5.5+) with the
> > > >readyState attribute,
> > >
> > > >In general, before you can start messing with any interior data
> (checking
> > > >for values, assigning values, etc.), you
> > > >need to be in the 'complete' state.
> > > >
> > > >Sadly, I can find no reference to anything similar in Netscape.  Does
> > > >anybody have anything which might be equivalent in function?
> > >
> > > onLoad, simply onLoad. Any script that runs onLoad can access any part
> of
> > > the document structure.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > ppk, freelance web developer
> > > Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
> > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
> > > Column "Keep it Simple":
> http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Javascript mailing list
> > > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca  Mon Apr 14 16:17:42 2003
From: noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca (noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:17:42 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
Message-ID: <22e6c122b54c.22b54c22e6c1@sitel.uqam.ca>

thanks you for your answers !

---- Messages d?origine ----
De: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
Date: lundi 14 avril  2003 15:53
Objet: RE: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames

> I'm not sure exactly what your use is...
> 
>  My understanding is that frames were used to make the 
> presentation of
> several pages easier to support. ie: define the frame with a "Top 
> Logo","Left Navbar", "Bottom Navbar", and only the "Content" area 
> is dynamic.
> This would allow the Logo and navbars to be tweaked in their 
> respectivesingle .htm(l) file, while the content would be managed 
> separately.
>  I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
> frames...
> 
>  The same page layout can be generated with server side includes 
> (ssi) like
> you mentioned.  This still allows a single storage for the "Top 
> Logo" and
> "Left Navbar" etc., but removes many of the frame-problems.  Each 
> page of
> content gets it's own URL - so you can bookmark/favorite 
> individual pages
> (one of my biggest complaints about framed sites) and the 
> navigation never
> has to worry about which frame to target.
> 
> <table>
> <tr>
>  <td colspan='2'><!-- #include virtual="/inc/TopLogo.asp" --></td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
>  <td><!-- #include virtual="/inc/LeftNav.asp" --></td>
>  <td><!-- #include virtual="/inc/Content.asp" --></td>
> </tr>
> <tr>
>  <td colspan='2'><!-- #include virtual="/inc/BottomNav.asp" --></td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> 
> When you strip out all the extra formatting, this table looks a 
> great deal
> like a frameset.  The content.asp file could be reading the 
> URL/Querystringto determine what to display as dynamic content.
> 
> FYI: my experience is primarily Microsoft.  The IIS web server 
> will first
> parse your #include directives first, then process all the ASP 
> code, then
> send the resulting HTML to the browser.  So you won't be able to 
> do a
> "dynamic include" using ASP  [ex: <!-- #include 
> virtual="/inc/content<%=lcContentIndex %>.asp" --> just won't work]
> 
> My solution is to research IISworkable equivalent.
> 
> I'm so off-topic and rambling, i'm going to stop now :)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 4:32 PM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if one is sufficiently courageous, one can do some heavy 
dinking
> with createElement("td"), createElement("tr"), and modifying the 
> resultingobjects with .innerHTML assignments, but it is a real 
> pain to have to drop
> in the
> umpety-ump gazillion HTML/javascript lines into a table by hand.  
Yes,
> it is doable.  Yes, I've done it (for small tables).  No, I 
> wouldn't want
> to do it for full-fledged window applications running on a web 
> interface.
> Aside from layers, frames are scalable, and can be shrunk or 
> expanded at
> will.
> By attaching scrollbar widgets to a table, you can achieve much 
> the same
> effect,
> but the coding is a bit more gruesome.
> 
> Probably the greatest single drawback to using tables versus 
> frames, is
> that you
> have only one 'window' geometry to play with, and everything has 
> to be
> based on
> absolute screen coordinates.  This doesn't hurt if you never do any
> image-maps or
> drag-and-drop stuff, but it's hell-on-wheels if you do.  Again, it 
> can be
> managed,
> but it is somewhat more complicated.
> 
> I'm sure the older (? are there such things ?) and wiser 
> JavaScript gurus
> will now
> come out of the woodwork, and shoot my naive impressions full of 
> holes.
> -- Dave Lovering
> 
> noel.jean-baptiste at courrier.uqam.ca wrote:
> >>
> >> hello,
> >> I use frames in my site, but I will want to remove them some many
> >> reasons...
> >> I would like to have comments on the alternative solutions with 
the
> >> frames.  I know how to use the ssi, layers but I would like to 
know
> >> the advantages incovenients.
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Javascript mailing list
> >> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 


From TMccoy at city.newport-beach.ca.us  Mon Apr 14 16:34:59 2003
From: TMccoy at city.newport-beach.ca.us (McCoy, Thomas)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:34:59 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
Message-ID: <69DB2122006FD511AE44009027406B24731E25@exchange_lib.city.newport-beach.ca.us>

I love frames.  Seriously!

*ducks to avoid flaming*

I choose frames over SSI on the library's site because our server that
processed the includes is SLOW...  SSI processing added 3 seconds on each
page load :(  I might be in the minority (having an ancient server), but I'd
test the load speed before committing to anything.  The delay wasn't too
noticeable until we went live... all those page requests made the server go
chugga-chugga-chugga :(
 
 
Sincerely,
Thomas McCoy
www.city.newport-beach.ca.us/nbpl/
 



-----Original Message-----

I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
frames...

From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Mon Apr 14 19:23:17 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:23:17 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: 	<69DB2122006FD511AE44009027406B24731E25@exchange_lib.city.newport-beach.ca.us>
	<3E9B5E3A.3AA688A2@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c302e5$36c56ba0$eae6adcb@k1n8i8>

is that because the SSI's files themselves aren't protected, even when the
main page that includes them is?

Andrew Gibson

>
> As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When I
first
> started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security
training,
> the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting ways to
> crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've
forgotten
> much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the frightening
> simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine --
particularly
> when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side
includes
> today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling
anonymous
> FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).
>
> When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns against
enabling
> SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government
systems
> have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that reason.
Next to
> buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a
"cracker's") best
> friend.
>




From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 20:22:45 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:22:45 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <69DB2122006FD511AE44009027406B24731E25@exchange_lib.city.newport-beach.ca.us>
Message-ID: <3E9B5E3A.3AA688A2@gazos.com>


As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When I first
started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security training,
the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting ways to
crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've forgotten
much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the frightening 
simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine -- particularly
when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side includes
today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling anonymous
FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).

When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns against enabling
SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government systems
have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that reason.  Next to
buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a "cracker's") best
friend.

-- Dave Lovering

P.S: I like frames too, and it took me a long time to learn to say that!

"McCoy, Thomas" wrote:
> 
> I love frames.  Seriously!
> 
> *ducks to avoid flaming*
> 
> I choose frames over SSI on the library's site because our server that
> processed the includes is SLOW...  SSI processing added 3 seconds on each
> page load :(  I might be in the minority (having an ancient server), but I'd
> test the load speed before committing to anything.  The delay wasn't too
> noticeable until we went live... all those page requests made the server go
> chugga-chugga-chugga :(
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Thomas McCoy
> www.city.newport-beach.ca.us/nbpl/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
> frames...
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Mon Apr 14 20:48:27 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:48:27 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
In-Reply-To: <fc.dd831e16dd831e16d1a43dd73b9aca00.5e5dd3@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIENKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

More inherently insecure than unpatched software?  I can't understand how
SSI is any more dangerous in a controlled environment than any other kind of
active content.  <!-- #include virtual="/inc/TooLazyToRetype.htm" -->
shouldn't be posing much security threat.  http://url/crackers/utility.asp
would be a far worse thing to have running.  If this is listed as a drawback
to using SSI, then i would suggest the administrator just disconnect the
ethernet from the box or turn it off altogether...

"Just a thought"

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:23 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames



As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When I
first
started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security
training,
the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting ways to
crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've
forgotten
much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the frightening
simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine --
particularly
when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side
includes
today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling
anonymous
FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).

When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns against
enabling
SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government
systems
have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that reason.
Next to
buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a
"cracker's") best
friend.

-- Dave Lovering

P.S: I like frames too, and it took me a long time to learn to say that!

"McCoy, Thomas" wrote:
>>
>> I love frames.  Seriously!
>>
>> *ducks to avoid flaming*
>>
>> I choose frames over SSI on the library's site because our server that
>> processed the includes is SLOW...  SSI processing added 3 seconds on
>each
>> page load :(  I might be in the minority (having an ancient server),
>but I'd
>> test the load speed before committing to anything.  The delay wasn't too
>> noticeable until we went live... all those page requests made the
>server go
>> chugga-chugga-chugga :(
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Thomas McCoy
>> www.city.newport-beach.ca.us/nbpl/
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
>> frames...
>> _______________________________________________
>> Javascript mailing list
>> Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Mon Apr 14 20:52:56 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:52:56 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIENKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <009301c302f1$bceb7fb0$eae6adcb@k1n8i8>

I presume if you have some kind of security code in each include it would
help?

<%
if not checkUser() then
  ' kick out
end if
'rest of include %>

> More inherently insecure than unpatched software?  I can't understand how
> SSI is any more dangerous in a controlled environment than any other kind
of
> active content.  <!-- #include virtual="/inc/TooLazyToRetype.htm" -->
> shouldn't be posing much security threat.  http://url/crackers/utility.asp
> would be a far worse thing to have running.  If this is listed as a
drawback
> to using SSI, then i would suggest the administrator just disconnect the
> ethernet from the box or turn it off altogether...
>
> "Just a thought"




From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Mon Apr 14 21:03:52 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:03:52 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
In-Reply-To: <fc.288da3d3288da3d3d1a43dd73b9aca00.5e600a@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIENLDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

>In general whenever dealing with an SSI I always have a mental image of
Robbie the
>Robot waving its arms about and shouting "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

...at least you keep yourself amused... <g>

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:51 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames



There are several reasons.  First, (as you noted) the SSI file's are buck
nekkid (techo-lingo), and can't be "hidden" in the fashion of normal files
and/or directories.  Next, since the process that devolves the SSI is
actually
part of the web-server (Apache, et al), unless the web-server has been
deliberately
neutered to be a non-root process, the resulting SSI will have root
privileges.
If so, it can go anywhere, see anything, and generally mess about with
things
one rather would not have messed with.  Yes, it is possible to build a
"safe"
web-server, but with so many people building theirs with "out-of-the-box"
code,
they almost never are.  [It took me 25 minutes to build my web-server, the
modules,
and the SSL certificates.  It then took me 2 weeks to harden it properly].

In addition, there are some particularly tasty methods of overflowing an
SSI
(one classic exploit is the 'infinite backward regression' method),
forcing it into
a trap condition that opens what is, for all intents and purposes, a root
shell.
The insecure.org site (which is getting rather long in the tooth, and may
have
been shut down by the Homeland Security nazis) used to have some classic
exploits
for doing this.

Also, unless the SSI is embedded deep inside an authenticated code module,
anybody
with FrontPage or a simple text-editor can whomp up a routine that will
poke it
with arbitrary code.  "Poking with arbitrary code" is the equivalent of
breaking
into your box.  At least with SSL or IPSec you have a trace id of the bozo
that
bonked your machine -- plain old HTML doesn't even do that.

In general whenever dealing with an SSI I always have a mental image of
Robbie the
Robot waving its arms about and shouting "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

-- Dave Lovering

Andrew Gibson wrote:
>>
>> is that because the SSI's files themselves aren't protected, even when
>the
>> main page that includes them is?
>>
>> Andrew Gibson
>>
>> >
>> > As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When
>I
>> first
>> > started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security
>> training,
>> > the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting
>ways to
>> > crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've
>> forgotten
>> > much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the
>frightening
>> > simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine --
>> particularly
>> > when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side
>> includes
>> > today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling
>> anonymous
>> > FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).
>> >
>> > When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns
>against
>> enabling
>> > SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government
>> systems
>> > have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that
>reason.
>> Next to
>> > buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a
>> "cracker's") best
>> > friend.
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Javascript mailing list
>> Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Mon Apr 14 21:12:04 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:12:04 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
In-Reply-To: <fc.bab046e8bab046e8fe0682583b9aca00.5e6022@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMGENMDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

suppose your "SafeInclude" file were overwritten with "CrackerTools" and
included into an otherwise 'friendly' web page?  My point is that by the
time the web designer/developer should be worrying about security failures
of a site compromised by a root kit, it's already too late.  Security should
be in place before the building starts, and then kept in mind throughout the
process; not added on like landscaping after the job is done.  I would have
been more concerned about this, but using IIS on Win2k means we are at risk
regardless of the implementation decisions we make for the site itself,
since the web server and OS are notorious in their own right. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:53 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames


I presume if you have some kind of security code in each include it would
help?

<%
if not checkUser() then
  ' kick out
end if
'rest of include %>

>> More inherently insecure than unpatched software?  I can't understand
>how
>> SSI is any more dangerous in a controlled environment than any other
>kind
of
>> active content.  <!-- #include virtual="/inc/TooLazyToRetype.htm" -->
>> shouldn't be posing much security threat.
>http://url/crackers/utility.asp
>> would be a far worse thing to have running.  If this is listed as a
drawback
>> to using SSI, then i would suggest the administrator just disconnect the
>> ethernet from the box or turn it off altogether...
>>
>> "Just a thought"



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Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 21:51:25 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:51:25 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <69DB2122006FD511AE44009027406B24731E25@exchange_lib.city.newport-beach.ca.us>
	<006b01c302e5$36c56ba0$eae6adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <3E9B72F5.2509D1F@gazos.com>


There are several reasons.  First, (as you noted) the SSI file's are buck
nekkid (techo-lingo), and can't be "hidden" in the fashion of normal files
and/or directories.  Next, since the process that devolves the SSI is actually
part of the web-server (Apache, et al), unless the web-server has been deliberately
neutered to be a non-root process, the resulting SSI will have root privileges.
If so, it can go anywhere, see anything, and generally mess about with things
one rather would not have messed with.  Yes, it is possible to build a "safe" 
web-server, but with so many people building theirs with "out-of-the-box" code,
they almost never are.  [It took me 25 minutes to build my web-server, the modules,
and the SSL certificates.  It then took me 2 weeks to harden it properly].

In addition, there are some particularly tasty methods of overflowing an SSI
(one classic exploit is the 'infinite backward regression' method), forcing it into
a trap condition that opens what is, for all intents and purposes, a root shell.
The insecure.org site (which is getting rather long in the tooth, and may have
been shut down by the Homeland Security nazis) used to have some classic exploits
for doing this.

Also, unless the SSI is embedded deep inside an authenticated code module, anybody
with FrontPage or a simple text-editor can whomp up a routine that will poke it
with arbitrary code.  "Poking with arbitrary code" is the equivalent of breaking
into your box.  At least with SSL or IPSec you have a trace id of the bozo that
bonked your machine -- plain old HTML doesn't even do that.

In general whenever dealing with an SSI I always have a mental image of Robbie the
Robot waving its arms about and shouting "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

-- Dave Lovering

Andrew Gibson wrote:
> 
> is that because the SSI's files themselves aren't protected, even when the
> main page that includes them is?
> 
> Andrew Gibson
> 
> >
> > As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When I
> first
> > started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security
> training,
> > the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting ways to
> > crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've
> forgotten
> > much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the frightening
> > simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine --
> particularly
> > when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side
> includes
> > today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling
> anonymous
> > FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).
> >
> > When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns against
> enabling
> > SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government
> systems
> > have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that reason.
> Next to
> > buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a
> "cracker's") best
> > friend.
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 23:21:45 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:21:45 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIENKDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3E9B8815.EDC6AB71@gazos.com>


Uh... maybe not.  Unpatched software (or even heavily patched software) is
not my favorite thing on the security hit-parade either.  I'm not going to
debate which security issue is the one of greatest concern -- there are guys
at CERT and CIAC who get paid a hell of a lot more than I do to think about
that.  However, just imagine for a moment if someone could force an SSI
to achieve the following result:

<tt>
<!--#exec cmd="cat /etc/passwd" -->
</tt>

Mind you, it wouldn't execute worth a darn, but it sure would whet the appetites 
of all those chaps with cracker.2.0.1 and the like waiting in anticipation.  I
deliberately picked one of the more obvious cases of abusing an SSI on a blatantly
misconfigured web server [which isn't a very fair comparison], but even some
innocuous SSI's can be "turned" by exotic syntax tricks into doing some dirty work.

Well, now that we're 180 miles away from JavaScript land, I think I'll rest a
spell, and wait for the NSA guys to knock on my door.

-- Dave Lovering

Michael Dougherty wrote:
> 
> More inherently insecure than unpatched software?  I can't understand how
> SSI is any more dangerous in a controlled environment than any other kind of
> active content.  <!-- #include virtual="/inc/TooLazyToRetype.htm" -->
> shouldn't be posing much security threat.  http://url/crackers/utility.asp
> would be a far worse thing to have running.  If this is listed as a drawback
> to using SSI, then i would suggest the administrator just disconnect the
> ethernet from the box or turn it off altogether...
> 
> "Just a thought"
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:23 PM
> To: javascript at latech.edu
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
> 
> As an added downside of SSI's -- they are NOTORIOUSLY insecure.  When I
> first
> started honing my teeth on browser exploits for my computer security
> training,
> the very start of the discussion was on the many easy and exciting ways to
> crack a system that had SSI's in place and operational.  Although I've
> forgotten
> much of what I learned during that series of CSI seminars, the frightening
> simplicity of the exploits involved still sends shivers up my spine --
> particularly
> when I hear well-meaning folks relying on those self-same server-side
> includes
> today.  (Sort of the same frisson I get from finding someone enabling
> anonymous
> FTP on a host that doesn't have backwards-path exclusion turned on).
> 
> When I look through the latest Apache "Black Book", it still warns against
> enabling
> SSI's except for the simplest of things.  Most military and government
> systems
> have a flat-out edict against SSI's, period -- for precisely that reason.
> Next to
> buffer-overflow exploits, SSI's are a hacker's (oops! I mean a
> "cracker's") best
> friend.
> 
> -- Dave Lovering
> 
> P.S: I like frames too, and it took me a long time to learn to say that!
> 
> "McCoy, Thomas" wrote:
> >>
> >> I love frames.  Seriously!
> >>
> >> *ducks to avoid flaming*
> >>
> >> I choose frames over SSI on the library's site because our server that
> >> processed the includes is SLOW...  SSI processing added 3 seconds on
> >each
> >> page load :(  I might be in the minority (having an ancient server),
> >but I'd
> >> test the load speed before committing to anything.  The delay wasn't too
> >> noticeable until we went live... all those page requests made the
> >server go
> >> chugga-chugga-chugga :(
> >>
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Thomas McCoy
> >> www.city.newport-beach.ca.us/nbpl/
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> I'm sure you're already aware of the problems associated with using
> >> frames...
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Javascript mailing list
> >> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> >> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 14 23:25:21 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:25:21 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] ssi, layers, table alternative to frames
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIENLDDAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3E9B88EC.29DE510@gazos.com>


You know what they say, "simple pleasures for simple minds...".  As mine is
about the simplest one of my acquaintance, it doesn't take much to give me
my jollies.

-- Dave Lovering

Michael Dougherty wrote:
> 
> >In general whenever dealing with an SSI I always have a mental image of
> >Robbie the Robot waving its arms about and shouting "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"
> 
> ...at least you keep yourself amused... <g>

From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 15 01:17:27 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:17:27 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
Message-ID: <F44TlWq0MchNQdvxScy0001105d@hotmail.com>



>With all due respect, "onLoad" doesn't quite cut it on multiframe,
>ultra-humongous items.

Cross-frame onloads are indeed tricky.

If you need to know whether all frames are loaded, add an onload to the 
document in each of them that notifies a central function residing in the 
frameset. When this function has heard from each of the frames, all pages 
are ready for manipulation.

>Mind you, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this ... particularly if the
>problem was due to some bizarro consequence of my earlier funky coding 
>eccentricities.  [But I don't think it is].  Also,
>even if the objects are "loaded", is this the same as being "complete"?  I 
>have no idea.

I don't understand the difficulty. onLoad, all elements in a page are 
accessible and changeable through the DOM. That's enough, isn't it?

ppk

_________________________________________________________________
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From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr 15 01:32:16 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:32:16 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F44TlWq0MchNQdvxScy0001105d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <01bc01c30318$c2b4c0b0$eae6adcb@k1n8i8>

sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that with
an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think


> >With all due respect, "onLoad" doesn't quite cut it on multiframe,
> >ultra-humongous items.
>
> Cross-frame onloads are indeed tricky.
>
> If you need to know whether all frames are loaded, add an onload to the
> document in each of them that notifies a central function residing in the
> frameset. When this function has heard from each of the frames, all pages
> are ready for manipulation.
>
> >Mind you, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this ... particularly if the
> >problem was due to some bizarro consequence of my earlier funky coding
> >eccentricities.  [But I don't think it is].  Also,
> >even if the objects are "loaded", is this the same as being "complete"?
I
> >have no idea.
>
> I don't understand the difficulty. onLoad, all elements in a page are
> accessible and changeable through the DOM. That's enough, isn't it?
>
> ppk
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 15 01:50:14 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:50:14 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
Message-ID: <F28b6KZmcK8r6beUzmR0006857b@hotmail.com>


>sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that with 
>an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think

You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must 
know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however, this 
information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the 
possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
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From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr 15 05:58:44 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:58:44 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F28b6KZmcK8r6beUzmR0006857b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004101c3033e$18d53ef0$15e8adcb@k1n8i8>

The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
properly....

Andy

>
> >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
with
> >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
>
> You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
this
> information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
>




From christ at saeweb.com  Tue Apr 15 07:43:44 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:43:44 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: 	<F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com><000401c302c6$427c04f0$0500000a@arcana><000c01c302c7$1f68dfa0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<001a01c302cb$252abb80$0500000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <004701c3034c$a6ee9fc0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> Ultra-humongous: each frame references external source files with 4MB+ of
> working code (HTML, PHP, Java applets, JavaScript, etc.), of which almost
> none is image based.

If anyone is doing something like that, I would tell them to come up with a
better way of presenting their data.

> I've seen similar problems with smaller files, but the
> case is blatant when things are so big.

I guess I still don't comprehend what types of problems you're talking
about because with frames and having to determine if they're loaded,
it's just the same as with single documents, except you're dealing with
multiple single documents that have to be targeted differently.  If you'd
like
to capture this type of stuff though (such as when pages are completely
loaded, etc), then I suggest you have some code in your top document that
keeps track of this since it's available at all times, even after other
frames have been loaded and unloaded throughout a user's surfing
experience.

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com


From christ at saeweb.com  Tue Apr 15 07:55:37 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:55:37 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F44TlWq0MchNQdvxScy0001105d@hotmail.com>
	<01bc01c30318$c2b4c0b0$eae6adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <006701c3034e$4ff0a810$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

There's also an onerror event which I also think is IE only, but
not sure, with which you could loop through all the elements on
a page and attach this event to fire some other function that handles
this problem.

I've never tried it myself, but maybe I'll try to work on something like
that today because I've been having problems with images loading
sometimes.

======================
OT QUESTION ABOUT MSIE 6:
======================
Has anyone else experienced this problem I'm talking about with
some images not loading even though you're SURE the image
is at the location specified by the server?  If I just right-click
and do a "Show Image", it'll come up...

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that with
> an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
>


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr 15 09:12:34 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <F48ISV2bltjl6Ds8ym60000c4e1@hotmail.com><000401c302c6$427c04f0$0500000a@arcana><000c01c302c7$1f68dfa0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<004701c3034c$a6ee9fc0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3E9C134B.FF3499E4@gazos.com>


Hmmm... I can't help but think that SOMEWHERE there's somebody who
writes web pages as large and complex as mine.

For now, I'll try the method of using multiple "onLoad" handlers for
each frame/document, all reporting back to a routine in the parent
window -- sort of like the cascaded lights on a speedway starting
line.  When all of the 'onLoads' check in, we will presume that
everything is done [at least until proven otherwise].  By hanging
a "watch" event on the value of this counter, we can trigger a global
"onLoad" equivalent.  I already know with absolute and reproducible
certainty that using an onLoad at the top frameset level is absolutely
useless, and this method seems far more plausible.

'onLoad' (however crude) is at least portable, whereas readyState only works
for IE5.5+, or so I am given to understand.

Thanks to Chris, Paul, Andy, et al who persuaded me to get off my hump and
try the obvious. 

-- Dave Lovering

Chris Tifer wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
> To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> 
> > Ultra-humongous: each frame references external source files with 4MB+ of
> > working code (HTML, PHP, Java applets, JavaScript, etc.), of which almost
> > none is image based.
> 
> If anyone is doing something like that, I would tell them to come up with a
> better way of presenting their data.
> 
> > I've seen similar problems with smaller files, but the
> > case is blatant when things are so big.
> 
> I guess I still don't comprehend what types of problems you're talking
> about because with frames and having to determine if they're loaded,
> it's just the same as with single documents, except you're dealing with
> multiple single documents that have to be targeted differently.  If you'd
> like
> to capture this type of stuff though (such as when pages are completely
> loaded, etc), then I suggest you have some code in your top document that
> keeps track of this since it's available at all times, even after other
> frames have been loaded and unloaded throughout a user's surfing
> experience.
> 
> Chris Tifer
> http://www.emailajoke.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From trojani2000 at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 15 13:15:17 2003
From: trojani2000 at hotmail.com (BEKIM BACAJ)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:15:17 +0200
Subject: [Javascript] Moving elements/forgot to ask you
Message-ID: <F11559XkWXRa9eNzAja0006ce07@hotmail.com>


Andrew, regarding 'object expected' error on my previous script.
Can you tell, when does it ocurr? Over what element(s) because I don't 
recieve nothing alike(IE5.0;IE6.0).

Regards!







>From: "Andrew Gibson" <andyg at ihug.co.nz>
>Reply-To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Javascript] Moving elements
>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:31:24 +1200
>
>Bekim, I've copied this script as is....what is it supposed to do.....
>
>Just comes up with object required when I try to drag something.
>
>/*********************************************************************
>Title:       "Acrobat-Like" Page Scroll Script
>Written by:   Bekim Bac? Trojani
>Date:         1:10 PM 4/1/03
>Instructions: To remove scrollbars and retain scrollability
>       Include: style="overflow:hidden" in the <Body> tag
>Compatibility:IE only (this version) version 1.0ie(beta)
>**************Please keep this coment lines if you use it*************
>**********************************************************************/
>var x, y, dx, dy, dB=document.body;
>function enableMove(){
>dB.style.cursor="move" //can't make it work!
>           x=event.screenX
>y=event.screenY
>     dx=x+dB.scrollLeft
>     dy=y+dB.scrollTop
>}
>
>function movingNow(){
>if (window.event.button==1) {
>x=event.screenX
>y=event.screenY
>    dB.scrollLeft = 0-(x-dx)
>    dB.scrollTop  = 0-(y-dy)
>         dB.style.cursor="move"
>}
>}
>
>function setItBack(){dB.style.cursor='';}
>
>function retF(){return false}
>
>document.onmousedown  =enableMove
>document.onmousemove  =movingNow
>document.onmouseup    =setItBack
>document.onselectstart=retF
>document.ondragstart  =retF
>
>It works as charm, very usefull for maps, especialy in popup windows etc.
>
>Excuse my math, is't very unconvetional.
>
>Once you've played around with this script, you will allready miss it at
>other pages.
>(P.S. Might work perfect in >NN4 also, but never tested it)
>
>Cheers!
>
>
>
>


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From dberry1 at lineone.net  Tue Apr 15 16:52:42 2003
From: dberry1 at lineone.net (Daz)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:52:42 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
In-Reply-To: <004101c3033e$18d53ef0$15e8adcb@k1n8i8>
Message-ID: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>

Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.

A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that could suppress
the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over an image.
I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks well
apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
can't seem to find this code again.
Can anyone help out?

Thanks in advance for any help, Daz

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
properly....

Andy

>
> >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
with
> >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
>
> You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
this
> information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
>



_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From walter at torres.ws  Tue Apr 15 20:56:32 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:56:32 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
In-Reply-To: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.

An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.

Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?

Walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
>
> A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> could suppress
> the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> an image.
> I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks well
> apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> can't seem to find this code again.
> Can anyone help out?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
> with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> properly....
>
> Andy
>
> >
> > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> with
> > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> >
> > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
> this
> > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr 15 20:58:21 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:58:21 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <009101c303bb$a90dfde0$f1e7adcb@k1n8i8>

do a search on google "right click"


Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.
>
> An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.
>
> Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?
>
> Walter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
> >
> > A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> > could suppress
> > the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> > an image.
> > I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks
well
> > apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> > can't seem to find this code again.
> > Can anyone help out?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> > Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a
div
> > with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> > properly....
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > >
> > > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> > with
> > > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> > >
> > > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really
must
> > > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience,
however,
> > this
> > > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Apr 15 21:53:48 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:53:48 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
In-Reply-To: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
References: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <3E9CC5BC.2080609@webtuitive.com>

Daz wrote:

> A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that could suppress
> the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over an image.

If you're referring to the IE6 "Image Toolbar", it's not JavaScript;
put this meta tag in the page header --

   <meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no">

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From dberry1 at lineone.net  Wed Apr 16 04:11:41 2003
From: dberry1 at lineone.net (Daz)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:11:41 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup
In-Reply-To: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNKEGODBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>

Sorry for being vague (and sorry for not changing the subject line before
submitting) - shows how 'stressed' I'm getting!

The popup menu appears when the mouse is over an image - I think its in the
advanced options as the "Image Toolbar". It's basically four icons in a tow:
Save, Print, Email and Add to Favs. I can turn it off in my browser (IE6)
settings - but I need to do it for the target machines.

Does any one know a good resource for configuring Microsoft 'stuff': e.g.
autocomplete=off suppresses the Microsoft autocomplete in form text inputs?

Thanks, Daz
-----Original Message-----
From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Torres
Sent: 16 April 2003 02:57
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.

An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.

Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?

Walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
>
> A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> could suppress
> the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> an image.
> I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks well
> apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> can't seem to find this code again.
> Can anyone help out?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
> with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> properly....
>
> Andy
>
> >
> > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> with
> > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> >
> > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
> this
> > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From LMuchacho at twii.net  Wed Apr 16 05:11:11 2003
From: LMuchacho at twii.net (Muchacho, Laurent (TWIi London))
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:11:11 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup
Message-ID: <BC3CCAF555C3244E81C13CA0279B20EA1A6F7B@tldnex01>

Hi Daz 

I think Hassan answer your question in the previous email on the list
subject "Question regarding Netscape"

this is a copy of his email 
Daz wrote:

> A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that could
suppress
> the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over an
image.

If you're referring to the IE6 "Image Toolbar", it's not JavaScript;
put this meta tag in the page header --

   <meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no">

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.





-----Original Message-----
From: Daz [mailto:dberry1 at lineone.net]
Sent: 16 April 2003 10:12
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup


Sorry for being vague (and sorry for not changing the subject line before
submitting) - shows how 'stressed' I'm getting!

The popup menu appears when the mouse is over an image - I think its in the
advanced options as the "Image Toolbar". It's basically four icons in a tow:
Save, Print, Email and Add to Favs. I can turn it off in my browser (IE6)
settings - but I need to do it for the target machines.

Does any one know a good resource for configuring Microsoft 'stuff': e.g.
autocomplete=off suppresses the Microsoft autocomplete in form text inputs?

Thanks, Daz
-----Original Message-----
From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Torres
Sent: 16 April 2003 02:57
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.

An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.

Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?

Walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
>
> A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> could suppress
> the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> an image.
> I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks well
> apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> can't seem to find this code again.
> Can anyone help out?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
> with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> properly....
>
> Andy
>
> >
> > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> with
> > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> >
> > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
> this
> > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


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From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Wed Apr 16 05:21:22 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:21:22 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup
References: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNKEGODBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <3E9D2EA2.3000503@aflyingstart.net>

Try

<span oncontextmenu="return false;" ondragstart="return false";>
<img ...>
</span>

hth

Rodney

Daz wrote:

>Sorry for being vague (and sorry for not changing the subject line before
>submitting) - shows how 'stressed' I'm getting!
>
>The popup menu appears when the mouse is over an image - I think its in the
>advanced options as the "Image Toolbar". It's basically four icons in a tow:
>Save, Print, Email and Add to Favs. I can turn it off in my browser (IE6)
>settings - but I need to do it for the target machines.
>  
>




From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr 16 07:41:49 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:41:49 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPJCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <005701c30415$8cdb6a40$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Maybe you've disabled yours, but in newer versions of IE, if you hover over
the
image, you have some options such as to save the image, make it full size
(if it
shrunk it down to fit in your screen), etc...

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape


> Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.
>
> An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.
>
> Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?
>
> Walter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
> >
> > A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> > could suppress
> > the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> > an image.
> > I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks
well
> > apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> > can't seem to find this code again.
> > Can anyone help out?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> > Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a
div
> > with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> > properly....
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > >
> > > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> > with
> > > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> > >
> > > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really
must
> > > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience,
however,
> > this
> > > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From walter at torres.ws  Wed Apr 16 14:02:41 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:02:41 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] join the list
In-Reply-To: <DHEBIBDONAMBNJDAIOBNCEMACOAA.alex.benitez@prgx.com>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCGEPOCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

Look at the bottom of this (and every message)

walter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-admin at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-admin at LaTech.edu]On
> Behalf Of Alex Benitez
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:58 AM
> To: Javascript at LaTech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] join the list
> 
> 
> someone wants to join the list...can someone give me the site, i 
> forgot it..
> 
> thanks,
> alex
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From walter at torres.ws  Wed Apr 16 14:08:41 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:08:41 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] help
In-Reply-To: <DHEBIBDONAMBNJDAIOBNCEHICOAA.alex.benitez@prgx.com>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPOCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

This looks like your trying to add an Item to a Pick List (SELECT).

Use this... (see below)

walter

// Add a single Item to a Select Option List
function addOption ( strList, strItemText, strItemValue )
{
   // Which list
   var objList = document.getElementById( strList );

   // Do we have a list to deal with?
   if ( ! objList )
      return false

   // Add New Item Selected item
   objList.options[objList.options.length] = new Option( strItemText,
strItemValue );

   // It worked!
   return true
}




> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-admin at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-admin at LaTech.edu]On
> Behalf Of Alex Benitez
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:18 AM
> To: javascript at LaTech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] help
>
>
>
>
> example:  <select id='parentSelect'></select>
>
> then later i call parentSelect.innerHTML = "<option>opval</option>"
>
> what actually ends up in that property is "opval</option>"
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From edson at unimetro.com.br  Wed Apr 16 14:19:31 2003
From: edson at unimetro.com.br (Edson)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:19:31 -0300
Subject: [Javascript] join the list
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCGEPOCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <005a01c3044d$1c6cef80$6600a1c0@unimetro.com.br>

gostaria de solicitar minha exclus?o desta lista


grato



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] join the list


> Look at the bottom of this (and every message)
>
> walter
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-admin at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-admin at LaTech.edu]On
> > Behalf Of Alex Benitez
> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:58 AM
> > To: Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > Subject: [Javascript] join the list
> >
> >
> > someone wants to join the list...can someone give me the site, i
> > forgot it..
> >
> > thanks,
> > alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From edson at unimetro.com.br  Wed Apr 16 14:20:31 2003
From: edson at unimetro.com.br (Edson)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:20:31 -0300
Subject: [Javascript] help
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPOCBAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <006001c3044d$400b9680$6600a1c0@unimetro.com.br>

gostaria de solicitar minha exclus?o desta lista
como fa?o?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] help


> This looks like your trying to add an Item to a Pick List (SELECT).
>
> Use this... (see below)
>
> walter
>
> // Add a single Item to a Select Option List
> function addOption ( strList, strItemText, strItemValue )
> {
>    // Which list
>    var objList = document.getElementById( strList );
>
>    // Do we have a list to deal with?
>    if ( ! objList )
>       return false
>
>    // Add New Item Selected item
>    objList.options[objList.options.length] = new Option( strItemText,
> strItemValue );
>
>    // It worked!
>    return true
> }
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-admin at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript-admin at LaTech.edu]On
> > Behalf Of Alex Benitez
> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:18 AM
> > To: javascript at LaTech.edu
> > Subject: [Javascript] help
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > example:  <select id='parentSelect'></select>
> >
> > then later i call parentSelect.innerHTML = "<option>opval</option>"
> >
> > what actually ends up in that property is "opval</option>"
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From walter at torres.ws  Wed Apr 16 16:49:48 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:49:48 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] help in X-Browser caret POS pls...
In-Reply-To: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCMEPPCBAA.walter@torres.ws>

George Zabanah graciously offer this little didly [see below] for general
use (thanks George!), but it is IE only.

Can anyone in here convert this to work with NN 6+ (4 would be nice, but...)
Opera, and the others?

I've not been having any luck on my end with it.

Thanks

Walter

// Copyright (C) George Zabanah April 8, 2003
// Please feel free to use this ... but leave this header on top
//    'bolStart' = true  - return begining point of selection
//    'bolStart' = false - return ending point of selection
//    If no select is made, then either will return current caret
//    location
function ReturnCaretPOS ( bolStart )
{
   var caretPos = window.document.selection.createRange().duplicate();
       caretPos.collapse(bolStart);
       caretPos.moveStart("textedit",-1);
   return caretPos.text.length;
}


From uplate at attbi.com  Thu Apr 17 07:00:24 2003
From: uplate at attbi.com (uplate at attbi.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:00:24 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup
Message-ID: <20030417120025.483F9308B08@LaTech.edu>

Hi Daz.
I typed: Disable Image Toolbar into Google and came up with this solution.
To disable for all images Put This In Your META Section:
<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">

For An Individual Image:
<img src="test.gif" GALLERYIMG="no">

I found these at: 
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex9/imagebar.htm

Good luck.
> Sorry for being vague (and sorry for not changing the subject line before
> submitting) - shows how 'stressed' I'm getting!
> 
> The popup menu appears when the mouse is over an image - I think its in the
> advanced options as the "Image Toolbar". It's basically four icons in a tow:
> Save, Print, Email and Add to Favs. I can turn it off in my browser (IE6)
> settings - but I need to do it for the target machines.
> 
> Does any one know a good resource for configuring Microsoft 'stuff': e.g.
> autocomplete=off suppresses the Microsoft autocomplete in form text inputs?
> 
> Thanks, Daz
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Torres
> Sent: 16 April 2003 02:57
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> 
> 
> Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.
> 
> An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.
> 
> Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?
> 
> Walter
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
> >
> > A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> > could suppress
> > the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> > an image.
> > I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks well
> > apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> > can't seem to find this code again.
> > Can anyone help out?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> > Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a div
> > with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> > properly....
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > >
> > > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> > with
> > > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> > >
> > > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really must
> > > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience, however,
> > this
> > > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dberry1 at lineone.net  Thu Apr 17 15:58:02 2003
From: dberry1 at lineone.net (Daz)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:58:02 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup
In-Reply-To: <20030417120025.483F9308B08@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNKEIIDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>

Thanks everyone,

This is exactly what I want.
...and why didn't I think of google - I've got to get myself a less
stressful job!

Thanks again.

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
[mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of uplate at attbi.com
Sent: 17 April 2003 13:00
To: [JavaScript List]
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Suppressing Microsoft image popup


Hi Daz.
I typed: Disable Image Toolbar into Google and came up with this solution.
To disable for all images Put This In Your META Section:
<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">

For An Individual Image:
<img src="test.gif" GALLERYIMG="no">

I found these at:
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex9/imagebar.htm

Good luck.
> Sorry for being vague (and sorry for not changing the subject line before
> submitting) - shows how 'stressed' I'm getting!
>
> The popup menu appears when the mouse is over an image - I think its in
the
> advanced options as the "Image Toolbar". It's basically four icons in a
tow:
> Save, Print, Email and Add to Favs. I can turn it off in my browser (IE6)
> settings - but I need to do it for the target machines.
>
> Does any one know a good resource for configuring Microsoft 'stuff': e.g.
> autocomplete=off suppresses the Microsoft autocomplete in form text
inputs?
>
> Thanks, Daz
> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Torres
> Sent: 16 April 2003 02:57
> To: [JavaScript List]
> Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
>
>
> Sorry, don'r know of a menu that pops when over an image.
>
> An ALT TEXT pops up when you hover.
>
> Are you asking to surpress the right-click menu?
>
> Walter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Daz
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: RE: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I hope someone can help me with this 'cos its really bugging me.
> >
> > A good few months ago I saw a little piece of GavaScript that
> > could suppress
> > the Microsoft popup menu that appears when the cursor passes over
> > an image.
> > I've built a "room" configurable from a bunch of images and all looks
well
> > apart from that annoying popup. I've searched all my resource sites but
> > can't seem to find this code again.
> > Can anyone help out?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help, Daz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Gibson
> > Sent: 15 April 2003 11:59
> > To: [JavaScript List]
> > Subject: Re: [Javascript] Question regarding Netscape
> >
> >
> > The only time i've noticed a problem, if you change the contents of a
div
> > with a script, and it contains an image....sometimes the image wont load
> > properly....
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > >
> > > >sometimes images dont load fully....I've been able to get around that
> > with
> > > >an onabort in the <img  only ie though I think
> > >
> > > You can even add an onload event handler to an image, if you really
must
> > > know whether the image has finished loading. In my experience,
however,
> > this
> > > information is rarely necessary. Access to the DOM (including the
> > > possibility to change the src of an images) is enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From walter at torres.ws  Fri Apr 18 13:58:09 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:58:09 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] COPY selection in TEXT/TEXTAREA
In-Reply-To: <FAECIIEONHBOKMKJLDBNGEGJDBAA.dberry1@lineone.net>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEAHCCAA.walter@torres.ws>

Anyone know how to retrieve or place into clipboard a user selection from a
TEXT box or TEXTAREA in Netscape? I have one for IE.

Thanks

jsWalter


From spindrift at oceanfree.net  Sat Apr 19 02:52:38 2003
From: spindrift at oceanfree.net (Tim Makins)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:52:38 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Opening a new Window
References: <000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime>
Message-ID: <014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>

This page:
http://mmm.eircom.ie/maps/map_Pop.asp

when opened seems to open a new window and close the old one. How do you do
that ?

Tim in Ireland.


From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Sat Apr 19 07:20:53 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 13:20:53 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Opening a new Window
References: <000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime>
	<014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
Message-ID: <3EA13F25.2040400@aflyingstart.net>

Tim ,

Using the URL view-source:http://mmm.eircom.ie/maps/map_Pop.asp reveals :

<html>
<head>
<script language="javascript">
// <!--
function eircom_popup(page_name) {

    var windowAtts;
    var Width = 590;
    var Height = 475;
    var leftPos,rightPos;
    leftPos = (screen.width/2) - (Width / 2);
    rightPos = (screen.height/2) - (Height / 2);
    windowAtts = 
"width="+Width+",height="+Height+",toolbar=no,left="+leftPos+",top="+rightPos+",location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,copyhistory=no";
   var courseWindow = window.open(page_name,"",windowAtts);

    //Define current window
    parentwin = window.self;
    //Declare current window as its own child
    parentwin.opener = window.self;
    //Close current window
    parentwin.close();
      
}
//-->
</script>
</head>
<body onLoad="javascript:eircom_popup('default.asp')">
</body>

</html>

hth

Rodney


Tim Makins wrote:

>This page:
>http://mmm.eircom.ie/maps/map_Pop.asp
>
>when opened seems to open a new window and close the old one. How do you do
>that ?
>
>Tim in Ireland.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Javascript mailing list
>Javascript at LaTech.edu
>https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>  
>

-- 
PS. I have just bought a licence for Mike Chen's
BizAutomator. If you have to answer routine 
email queries from your sites or mailings then
you need this as much as I do. 
http://www.BizAutomator.com/rlbm51 

Rodney





From dlovering at gazos.com  Sat Apr 19 08:10:02 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 06:10:02 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Opening a new Window
References: <000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime>
	<014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
Message-ID: <3EA14AA6.D724BB46@gazos.com>


Nothing easier.  The parent (that launches both windows, and need not be actually visible
itself), can close one at the time it opens another.

    var win1 = window.open("","Window-1","height=300,width=400,menuvar=no,scrollbars=no,statusbar=no");
    if (win1) {
      win1.document.open("text/html");
      win1.document.write("<script> document.title = 'Window-1'; </script>");
      win1.document.write("<center><h3>Window-1</h3></center>");
      win1.document.close();
    }

    // some time passes, and the user does stuff -- which can be simulated by a timer

    var timer_00 = setTimeout('if (win1) { win1.close() }', 10000);

    var win2 = window.open("","Window-2","height=300,width=400,menuvar=no,scrollbars=no,statusbar=no");
    if (win2) {
      win2.document.open("text/html");
      win2.document.write("<script> document.title = 'Window-2'; </script>");
      win2.document.write("<center><h3>Window-2</h3></center>");
      win2.document.close();
    }

You can, if you don't mind tracking through all the DOM layers, actually have the second window close
the first through the parent:

  (assuming win1 is still open, this code would exist in win2...)

    window.opener.win1.window.close();

Mind you, it's been a long time since I've tested this, and I've no idea whether it would work
equally well in NN and IE, but it is consistant with the DOM documentation.

-- Dave Lovering
      

Tim Makins wrote:
> 
> This page:
> http://mmm.eircom.ie/maps/map_Pop.asp
> 
> when opened seems to open a new window and close the old one. How do you do
> that ?
> 
> Tim in Ireland.

From spindrift at oceanfree.net  Sat Apr 19 09:28:04 2003
From: spindrift at oceanfree.net (Tim Makins)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:28:04 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Opening a new Window
References: 	<000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
	<3EA13F25.2040400@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <006801c30680$c43fc540$49a2cad5@host>

Thanks for that, Rodney - a momentary lack of brain function assured me that
I could not look at source from an .asp page !!! Its a useful example, and I
seem to think it also answers someone else's question on this list a few
weeks ago - in effect, a link that opens a page with all chrome removed.

Thanks also to David for his fuller answer - I will work through it at my
own pace.

Tim in Ireland.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney Myers" <rodney at aflyingstart.net>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: 19 April 2003 13:20
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Opening a new Window


> Tim ,
>
> Using the URL view-source:http://mmm.eircom.ie/maps/map_Pop.asp reveals :
>
> <html>..........



From spindrift at oceanfree.net  Sat Apr 19 09:34:15 2003
From: spindrift at oceanfree.net (Tim Makins)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:34:15 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: 	<000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
	<3EA13F25.2040400@aflyingstart.net>
Message-ID: <006901c30680$c4d6d520$49a2cad5@host>

I notice that Internet Explorer includes 'My Computer' in its list of
History items. This got me wondering whether it is possible to set a Cookie
on my own computer ? I am developing a series of webpages that are designed
to be viewed on a local computer, with no requirement for an Internet
connection. A calculation requires a couple of variables from the surfer,
and rather than ask for it each time the program is run, or have them
manually edit a file, it would be nice to store the information on their
computer somehow - a cookie seems the obvious way....

Tim in Ireland.


From dlovering at gazos.com  Sat Apr 19 10:55:28 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:55:28 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
	<006901c30680$c4d6d520$49a2cad5@host>
Message-ID: <3EA17155.88F1B1A5@gazos.com>

Yes, you can -- although there are generally better ways to store data on
your own machine.  [Like encrypted environment variables maybe?]

Cookies are useful, but the proliferation of them for trivial things are
posing dangers that I'm sure their creators never imagined.

-- Compute safely, and often! --
-- Dave Lovering

Tim Makins wrote:
> 
> I notice that Internet Explorer includes 'My Computer' in its list of
> History items. This got me wondering whether it is possible to set a Cookie
> on my own computer ? I am developing a series of webpages that are designed
> to be viewed on a local computer, with no requirement for an Internet
> connection. A calculation requires a couple of variables from the surfer,
> and rather than ask for it each time the program is run, or have them
> manually edit a file, it would be nice to store the information on their
> computer somehow - a cookie seems the obvious way....
> 
> Tim in Ireland.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Sat Apr 19 12:52:14 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:52:14 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Opening a new Window
References: 	<000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host>
	<3EA13F25.2040400@aflyingstart.net> <006801c30680$c43fc540$49a2cad5@host>
Message-ID: <3EA18CCE.5030902@aflyingstart.net>

Tim,

You are right to think that you cannot use this method to view the 
server side code, but as illustrated you can view the html and script 
sent to the browser.

Rodney (in England - but no-one is perfect).

Tim Makins wrote:

>Thanks for that, Rodney - a momentary lack of brain function assured me that
>I could not look at source from an .asp page !!! Its a useful example, and I
>seem to think it also answers someone else's question on this list a few
>weeks ago - in effect, a link that opens a page with all chrome removed.
>
>Thanks also to David for his fuller answer - I will work through it at my
>own pace.
>
>Tim in Ireland.
>  
>




From christ at saeweb.com  Mon Apr 21 07:52:55 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:52:55 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: 	<000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host><006901c30680$c4d6d520$49a2cad5@host>
	<3EA17155.88F1B1A5@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <012901c30804$ed8a96c0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> Cookies are useful, but the proliferation of them for trivial things are
> posing dangers that I'm sure their creators never imagined.

What sort of dangers are you talking about?

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


From dlovering at gazos.com  Mon Apr 21 09:52:32 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:52:32 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000c01c2e7ee$8a9839e0$0300a8c0@jaime><014b01c30648$a92cbfc0$b6a3cad5@host><006901c30680$c4d6d520$49a2cad5@host>
	<012901c30804$ed8a96c0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3EA405AB.AF1B1593@gazos.com>


Well, for starters --

  Most cookie generators (particularly those for e-commerce) use "standard" encryption tools provided by M$oft, et al.  This is all very well and good, except for two things: (i) an index of the cookie identifiers used by major vendors, banks, etc. can be
had by developers (or those that can convince the proper authorities that they ARE developers), and (ii) the encryption algorithm is fairly easy to break.  This means that for all practical purposes anybody that knows that cookie ident #0xfe0506****** is
a mastercard cookie (for example), and has a cracking tool for the usual encryption cipher can (a) search your machine's cookie cache, (b) find the cookie, and (c) take it apart to find your credit card number, expiration date, and PIN.  Say hello Tahiti!
 This is one of the most pervasive forms of credit-card fraud, aside from simply picking up credit-card receipts that have been discarded and which don't have the bi-partite carbons.

  Now before anybody flames me, I know it is somewhat more complicated than that -- but not by much.  [I once saw a demo at a CSI-sponsored trade show where they demonstrated a package that could decrypt most cookies in under a minute]. What's far worse
is when your personal information (home address, home phone number, etc.) are stored in cookies on your machine.  A web site that you visit could just as well scan ALL your cookies for lightly encoded objects, and pull those it can break apart into useful
tidbits of knowledge about you.  You may have an unlisted phone number, checks without your home number on them, and never give it out over the phone -- but if you use it in e-commerce, you might as well write it off, even if you religiously check the box
saying 'Do not disseminate my phone number to others' on all the transactional forms you fill out.  If somebody thinks this is impossible, I'll be glad to forward the URL for sites that have the methods online for public access to do this very sort of thing.

  The only responsible deployment for cookies (as far as I'm concerned) is the one-time use for a current window session to facilitate forms history.  I used to think that keeping a user's preferences on e-commerce and e-catalog sites was OK, until I read
an article encouraging businesses to use this information for profiling and credit evaluation.  It is my opinion that if a company is going to rape your info-self, the least they can do is pay for the disk to store the pilfered data on their own machines.

  -- Dave Lovering

Chris Tifer wrote:
> 
> > Cookies are useful, but the proliferation of them for trivial things are
> > posing dangers that I'm sure their creators never imagined.
> 
> What sort of dangers are you talking about?
> 
> Chris Tifer
> http://emailajoke.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From tbdean_lists at tbdean.com  Mon Apr 21 21:50:08 2003
From: tbdean_lists at tbdean.com (T. Bradley Dean)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:50:08 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
In-Reply-To: <3EA405AB.AF1B1593@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <000001c30879$e3295e30$ae00000a@sfs0474>

David T. Lovering wrote:
>A web site that you visit could just as well
>scan ALL your cookies for lightly encoded objects,

Web sites only have access to cookies they write. A web site would not be
able to "scan ALL your cookies".

Used properly and responsibly (for example, to store a user id number which
correlates to information about a user stored server site) cookies are a
safe and convenient way to store user data.

~Brad


From christ at saeweb.com  Tue Apr 22 08:10:06 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:10:06 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000001c30879$e3295e30$ae00000a@sfs0474>
Message-ID: <011201c308d0$7e974b10$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I guess David's looking at it through the eyes of a possible hacker,
but one shouldn't be able to gain access to cookies through any
IE exploits.  Most if not all have been patched.

Theoretically it wouldn't be very hard though if I could get a
simple .js file on your system that you run outside the context
of your browser. Using FSO (the File System Object), it'd be
pretty easy to find your cookies since the path is usually the same
on most PC's.

That being said, I use cookies liberally. Some are encrypted, some
aren't.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com




----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Bradley Dean" <tbdean_lists at tbdean.com>
To: "'[JavaScript List]'" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?


> David T. Lovering wrote:
> >A web site that you visit could just as well
> >scan ALL your cookies for lightly encoded objects,
>
> Web sites only have access to cookies they write. A web site would not be
> able to "scan ALL your cookies".
>
> Used properly and responsibly (for example, to store a user id number
which
> correlates to information about a user stored server site) cookies are a
> safe and convenient way to store user data.
>
> ~Brad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From christ at saeweb.com  Tue Apr 22 09:21:13 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:21:13 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000001c30879$e3295e30$ae00000a@sfs0474>
	<3EA55A83.1F615C0D@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c308da$6e009310$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> However, with regard to persistent cookies -- boy is he wrong!
>
> First, off detecting cookies is no biggie.  A cookie is stored on a file
> in what is (for the most part) a standard directory.

So really, you're more worried about someone getting access to your
computer, not somebody using an exploit to expose cookies through
the browser, because unless you allow someone to install an Active-X
object, I don't see how cookies will be reported to any outside domains.



> The structure of a cookie is defined quite nicely in the McGraw-Hill book
> named (appropriately) "Cookies".  First published in 1998, it runs about
$11.00
> new.
>
> The "standard" way of using a cookie is to reference the URL you are
calling from,
> and ask nicely for the cookies associated with it.  If you want to see if
the
> web page you are on has any cookies associated with it, just type the
following
> into the location bar:
>
> javascript:alert(document.cookie.replace(/;/g, "\n"))

But you know why this works, right? Because it's accessing the CURRENT
domain's
cookies, not any outside of the domain.


> If you want a more automatic way of doing things, something like the
following
> script will work:
>
> <script language="JavaScript">
> <!--
>   function cookieMonster() {
>     var cookies = document.cookie.split(";");
>     var HTML = "";
>     for (var i=0; i<cookies.length; i++) {
>       HTML += cookies[i] + "<br>\n";
>     }
>     document.write(HTML);
>   }
> // -->
> <script>

I'm willing to bet that you won't be able to list the cookies from anyone's
domain except yours.



> Of course, one can have secure, non-secure, site-specific, and site-open
cookies
> also.  Javascript has a number of other useful cookie commands which
should be
> examined.
>
> However (!!!) a cracker doesn't bother with these niceties.  He simply
sucks up
> the raw cookies (not using the warm and fuzzy document.cookie directives),
and
> parses them.  The average cookie is built something along these lines:
>
> <cookie
designator>#<client-ip-address>-nnnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnnn::<cipher-key>#<server-ip
/URL>#<encoded pair 1>#
> <encoded pair 2># ... #<encoded pair N>#*#

While storing Cookies is of course more convenient to a hacker, if someone's
good
enough to get into your machine, I doubt they're only good enough to look in
one
directory - your cookie directory. They'd likely have the ability to check
ANYTHING
out on your computer and scan it for numbers that match CC # patterns.

You're right. It's not good to store sensitive data in cookies, but it's
fairly
safe to store some sort of identifying value so the site can look you up
easily enough
and using that info, the site's ownders can search for your information in
their DB.

In short, I would never store CC info in a cookie.

Chris Tifer


From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr 22 10:06:59 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:06:59 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000001c30879$e3295e30$ae00000a@sfs0474>
Message-ID: <3EA55A83.1F615C0D@gazos.com>


Well.  I hardly know how to respond.

With regards to session cookies, I think Brad and I are sufficiently close
to agreement that there is little point in dissension.  Warm and fuzzy,
that's me.

However, with regard to persistent cookies -- boy is he wrong!

First, off detecting cookies is no biggie.  A cookie is stored on a file
in what is (for the most part) a standard directory.  Any generic "list
directory" command pointed at such a directory will spout gazillions of
cookies.  For example, one default cookie directory in WindowsXP which is
often used for both persistant and session cookies is

C:\Documents and Settings\<MyUserName>\Cookies

Mind you, every application and/or URL that uses cookies may opt to put them
in a different place, so in point of actual fact they are scattered all over
your machine.  Go ahead -- look in your primary cookie directory -- if you
are running on a standard Windows late-model OS you'll typically have several
hundred of these babies floating around at any given time.

The structure of a cookie is defined quite nicely in the McGraw-Hill book
named (appropriately) "Cookies".  First published in 1998, it runs about $11.00
new.

The "standard" way of using a cookie is to reference the URL you are calling from,
and ask nicely for the cookies associated with it.  If you want to see if the
web page you are on has any cookies associated with it, just type the following
into the location bar:

javascript:alert(document.cookie.replace(/;/g, "\n"))

If you want a more automatic way of doing things, something like the following
script will work:

<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
  function cookieMonster() {
    var cookies = document.cookie.split(";");
    var HTML = "";
    for (var i=0; i<cookies.length; i++) {
      HTML += cookies[i] + "<br>\n";
    }
    document.write(HTML);
  }
// -->
<script>

Of course, one can have secure, non-secure, site-specific, and site-open cookies
also.  Javascript has a number of other useful cookie commands which should be
examined.

However (!!!) a cracker doesn't bother with these niceties.  He simply sucks up
the raw cookies (not using the warm and fuzzy document.cookie directives), and
parses them.  The average cookie is built something along these lines:

<cookie designator>#<client-ip-address>-nnnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnnn::<cipher-key>#<server-ip/URL>#<encoded pair 1>#
<encoded pair 2># ... #<encoded pair N>#*#

Although my copy of "Cookies" is on loan to somebody, I seem to recall that the nnnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnnn jazz is
the expiration date.  It's been a while since I poked a cookie, so my memory is probably a bit fuzzy.  Also,
there are some slight variations on what the cipher-key block contains, so expect some switch/case structures.

However, as the vast majority of cookies use the same or similar rotating-bit XOR encoding scheme, a number of
generic exploits are posted for taking apart 128B keys on-the-fly.  Knowing how many cookie pairs there are,
the number of octets in each, and the cipher-key (as well as the client/server info which are often used in
generating the hash which builds the encryption key itself) are all grist to the hacker's mill.

I won't provide you with the code to break the encryption -- unfortunately that is all too easy to come by nowadays, and I have no particular desire to sojourn in Leavenworth.  Suffice to say, if you're the sort of ganiff that wants to find this stuff,
you'll find it -- homeland security nazis or no.  [insecure.org, freshmeat.net, www.hoobie.net, and plenty of newer sites are all good places to start your personal path to perdition].

Each pair is of the form "name=value", so after you and your favorite black-arts code have finished having your
way with the decryption process you might arrive at something like the following:

AMEX#
<preamble>:
cardholder=John%20Smith
cardnumber=1234%209876%205678%200987
expdate=0405
#*#

I've been told that some exploits can spoof the client-ip-address and the server blocks, thereby making it much
more straight-forward to extract the cookie pairs.  You'll still have to use the designated decryption scheme, but
hey! every little bit helps.

Anyway, please feel free to review the literature on cookies at the exploit sites, and I suspect you'll understand
why I'm a little leery about betting my livelihood on the absolute unbreakability of my resident cookies.

-- Dave Lovering


"T. Bradley Dean" wrote:
> 
> David T. Lovering wrote:
> >A web site that you visit could just as well
> >scan ALL your cookies for lightly encoded objects,
> 
> Web sites only have access to cookies they write. A web site would not be
> able to "scan ALL your cookies".
> 
> Used properly and responsibly (for example, to store a user id number which
> correlates to information about a user stored server site) cookies are a
> safe and convenient way to store user data.
> 
> ~Brad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr 22 11:25:52 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:25:52 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <000001c30879$e3295e30$ae00000a@sfs0474>
	<003b01c308da$6e009310$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3EA56CF3.44B980BC@gazos.com>


Chris Tifer has made some excellent points, of which I'll follow up
briefly.

Yes, the primary peril of cookies is felt if someone gains access to your
machine and can snoop files -- including cookies.

Yes, the code snippets I provided are intended to show the cookies for
the current site.  However, just going to a site and running the script
(without actually filling out any forms, etc.) may be enlightening to
someone who didn't realize they had any cookies from that source.

However, there are perfectly good JavaScript methods for listing a
directory's contents (including those that contain cookies), and using
an iframe with a src="<path/cookiefilename>" can work quite nicely as
a raw cookie viewer, irrespective of which site the client is actually
attached to.  Simply spinning this back to the server of an illicit
site will provide a snapshot of the cookie's contents, providing the
instigator learns how to hide his Javascript/Active-X widget from the
hapless victim, and presuming he has the ready means to decrypt the
stuff he snatches.

Active-X is not the only scripting language which will do this sort of
thing.  Most tricks that I've seen active-X do can be done with either
JavaScript (yay!), Java (yay!), or PHP, and sometimes with raw VB/VBE.
Admittedly, Java gives very little purchase on a client's machine because
of the stringent limitations on what kind of resources the JVM can
access.  Sometimes the code is tortuous and illogical, and involves mirroring
back through the server, but crackers are remarkably inventive beasties.

In particular, I agree with Chris' comment about the appropriate use of
cookies.  As long as you don't stash your credit-card info, your bank
account info, etc. in a cookie, you have relatively little to fear.  If
you restrict yourself to only permitting session cookies to exist on
your machine, you'll have even less to fear.  And let's remember -- cookies
are extremely useful for storing form history during a long session with
many form refresh cycles.  (Providing you don't exceed their 4K length
limits).  And for the REALLY paranoid, flushing your cookies at the end of
every day gives you even more security (and heightened annoyance when you
can't remember all the passwords, etc. that were stored in them).

-- Dave Lovering

Again, my thanks to Chris for his enlightened comments.  

Chris Tifer wrote:
> 
> > However, with regard to persistent cookies -- boy is he wrong!
> >
> > First, off detecting cookies is no biggie.  A cookie is stored on a file
> > in what is (for the most part) a standard directory.
> 
> So really, you're more worried about someone getting access to your
> computer, not somebody using an exploit to expose cookies through
> the browser, because unless you allow someone to install an Active-X
> object, I don't see how cookies will be reported to any outside domains.
> 
> > The structure of a cookie is defined quite nicely in the McGraw-Hill book
> > named (appropriately) "Cookies".  First published in 1998, it runs about
> $11.00
> > new.
> >
> > The "standard" way of using a cookie is to reference the URL you are
> calling from,
> > and ask nicely for the cookies associated with it.  If you want to see if
> the
> > web page you are on has any cookies associated with it, just type the
> following
> > into the location bar:
> >
> > javascript:alert(document.cookie.replace(/;/g, "\n"))
> 
> But you know why this works, right? Because it's accessing the CURRENT
> domain's
> cookies, not any outside of the domain.
> 
> > If you want a more automatic way of doing things, something like the
> following
> > script will work:
> >
> > <script language="JavaScript">
> > <!--
> >   function cookieMonster() {
> >     var cookies = document.cookie.split(";");
> >     var HTML = "";
> >     for (var i=0; i<cookies.length; i++) {
> >       HTML += cookies[i] + "<br>\n";
> >     }
> >     document.write(HTML);
> >   }
> > // -->
> > <script>
> 
> I'm willing to bet that you won't be able to list the cookies from anyone's
> domain except yours.
> 
> > Of course, one can have secure, non-secure, site-specific, and site-open
> cookies
> > also.  Javascript has a number of other useful cookie commands which
> should be
> > examined.
> >
> > However (!!!) a cracker doesn't bother with these niceties.  He simply
> sucks up
> > the raw cookies (not using the warm and fuzzy document.cookie directives),
> and
> > parses them.  The average cookie is built something along these lines:
> >
> > <cookie
> designator>#<client-ip-address>-nnnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnnn::<cipher-key>#<server-ip
> /URL>#<encoded pair 1>#
> > <encoded pair 2># ... #<encoded pair N>#*#
> 
> While storing Cookies is of course more convenient to a hacker, if someone's
> good
> enough to get into your machine, I doubt they're only good enough to look in
> one
> directory - your cookie directory. They'd likely have the ability to check
> ANYTHING
> out on your computer and scan it for numbers that match CC # patterns.
> 
> You're right. It's not good to store sensitive data in cookies, but it's
> fairly
> safe to store some sort of identifying value so the site can look you up
> easily enough
> and using that info, the site's ownders can search for your information in
> their DB.
> 
> In short, I would never store CC info in a cookie.
> 
> Chris Tifer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From gorden at bnl.gov  Tue Apr 22 11:33:27 2003
From: gorden at bnl.gov (Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:33:27 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] FW: Severe 'newbie' help with checkbox/submit
Message-ID: <D869CC4782D3D41182CB0002B30A362B075FAF82@exchange01.bnl.gov>

This may be the wrong list to send this request to, but perhaps it is and I
could use all the help I can get!  Perhaps JavaScript can provide a
solution!

> I have a page from which I'd like to establish functionality to enable
> URLs to be activated when submit button pressed.  Which URL would be
> activated would be dictated by which checkbox is checked.
> 
> This should be a common task and I'm new at this.  I'm a bit embarassed
> with my code because it so blatently doesn't work.   Can anyone help?
> 
> Thanks.
> Pat Gorden-Ozgul
> pgo at bnl.gov
> 
> 
> 
> *************example code snippet from
> Response.asp************************
> 
> <p align="left">What action would you like to take?<br><br>
> 	<input name="action1" type=checkbox value="ON">Create a New
> Submission <br>
> 	<input name="action2" type=checkbox value="ON">Modify a Previous
> Submission <br>
> </p>
> 	<input type=submit value="Submit">
> 	
> 	
> <%
> if request("action1") = ""
> 'checkbox is not selected
> else
> 'checkbox is selected
> %>
> <form method="post" action"http:://directory/first.htm">
> 
> </form>
> <%
> end if
> %>

From christ at saeweb.com  Tue Apr 22 12:01:49 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:01:49 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] FW: Severe 'newbie' help with checkbox/submit
References: <D869CC4782D3D41182CB0002B30A362B075FAF82@exchange01.bnl.gov>
Message-ID: <000701c308f0$ddf21930$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I don't think this is a javascript question either, but maybe it can be
involved
at some point. What do you mean though by activating URL's based on a button
click?

A button clicking can be a trigger (event) to start off some processing of
code that will eventually "enable" these websites (that's a very broad use
of
the word too), but there's no magic button out there that enables URL's when
clicked.

Maybe you just need to explain a little more.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


> > I have a page from which I'd like to establish functionality to enable
> > URLs to be activated when submit button pressed.  Which URL would be
> > activated would be dictated by which checkbox is checked.
> >
> > This should be a common task and I'm new at this.  I'm a bit embarassed
> > with my code because it so blatently doesn't work.   Can anyone help?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Pat Gorden-Ozgul
> > pgo at bnl.gov


From cyber_amit at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 22 12:35:57 2003
From: cyber_amit at yahoo.com (Amit shah)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
In-Reply-To: <3EA17155.88F1B1A5@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <20030422173557.68001.qmail@web41203.mail.yahoo.com>

can someone please unsubscribe me from this mailing list. i certainly have never subscribed to this since i have nothing to do with javascript. amit.

"David T. Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com> wrote:Yes, you can -- although there are generally better ways to store data on
your own machine. [Like encrypted environment variables maybe?]

Cookies are useful, but the proliferation of them for trivial things are
posing dangers that I'm sure their creators never imagined.

-- Compute safely, and often! --
-- Dave Lovering

Tim Makins wrote:
> 
> I notice that Internet Explorer includes 'My Computer' in its list of
> History items. This got me wondering whether it is possible to set a Cookie
> on my own computer ? I am developing a series of webpages that are designed
> to be viewed on a local computer, with no requirement for an Internet
> connection. A calculation requires a couple of variables from the surfer,
> and rather than ask for it each time the program is run, or have them
> manually edit a file, it would be nice to store the information on their
> computer somehow - a cookie seems the obvious way....
> 
> Tim in Ireland.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


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From tbdean_lists at tbdean.com  Tue Apr 22 15:33:55 2003
From: tbdean_lists at tbdean.com (T. Bradley Dean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:33:55 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
In-Reply-To: <3EA56CF3.44B980BC@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>

Boy, I gotta start getting to work before 1 PM, I'm missing all the good
discussions!

David T. Lovering Wrote:

>However, there are perfectly good JavaScript methods for
>listing a directory's contents (including those that contain
>cookies), and using an iframe with a src="<path/cookiefilename>"
>can work quite nicely as a raw cookie viewer, irrespective of
>which site the client is actually attached to.  Simply spinning
>this back to the server of an illicit site will provide a snapshot
>of the cookie's contents,

I do not believe the above would work. And if it did, it would most
certainly be seen by the community as a "flaw" in whatever browsers it
worked in.

Cookies are designed to be viewed only by the site that wrote them. If you
are able to get access to them outside of the browser that's a different
story, and I would say quite illegal depending on how it's used. If you get
the user to accept an ActiveX or Java program and then use that to scan
other sites' cookies, decrypt them, and steal credit card numbers - well -
you might as well do the same with my Quicken data. If you are using that
argument to say cookies are "unsafe" everything on my workstation is just as
"unsafe".

~Brad


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Apr 22 16:18:15 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:18:15 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
In-Reply-To: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>
References: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>
Message-ID: <3EA5B197.3030308@webtuitive.com>

T. Bradley Dean wrote:

> Cookies are designed to be viewed only by the site that wrote them. 

Absolutely, and in the interests of precision, it's probably good
to also add that sites *don't view cookies* -- your browser *sends*
any cookies in its cookie store that match the URL it's retrieving.

No "site" can read anything off your system unless you've installed
some un-sand-boxed software yourself that allows that site to bypass
normal browser security.

Barring browser or plugin bugs, of course :-)

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From dlovering at gazos.com  Tue Apr 22 23:29:56 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:29:56 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>
Message-ID: <3EA61644.C4C248EE@gazos.com>


Actually, this is not trivial, as acquiring the cookie is only the beginning
of a rather tedious decryption process.  Also, if your browser prevents back-tracking
on the path to the various cookie cache directories, this won't work.  

Where it does work is in instances where (a) the cookie directory is down-stream of
an accessible directory and is not "hidden" from JavaScript/Active-X/whatever, (b)
the encryption on the cookie is either slight or non-existant, and (c) the hash
used in the encryption is derived exclusively from plaintext information (such as
the URL, IP address of the client, etc.).  Simply using an encryption method that
doesn't rely on such obvious things neatly defeats the method I described.

However, simply because such practices can be implemented through a given browser
shouldn't damn the browser, but rather the coding and encrypting methods of the
cookie writer.  It's like anything else -- done prudently, and with the proper 
safeguards, it's perfectly OK.  Only when we get sloppy are there unfortunate
consequences later.

-- Dave Lovering

"T. Bradley Dean" wrote:
> 
> Boy, I gotta start getting to work before 1 PM, I'm missing all the good
> discussions!
> 
> David T. Lovering Wrote:
> 
> >However, there are perfectly good JavaScript methods for
> >listing a directory's contents (including those that contain
> >cookies), and using an iframe with a src="<path/cookiefilename>"
> >can work quite nicely as a raw cookie viewer, irrespective of
> >which site the client is actually attached to.  Simply spinning
> >this back to the server of an illicit site will provide a snapshot
> >of the cookie's contents,
> 
> I do not believe the above would work. And if it did, it would most
> certainly be seen by the community as a "flaw" in whatever browsers it
> worked in.
> 
> Cookies are designed to be viewed only by the site that wrote them. If you
> are able to get access to them outside of the browser that's a different
> story, and I would say quite illegal depending on how it's used. If you get
> the user to accept an ActiveX or Java program and then use that to scan
> other sites' cookies, decrypt them, and steal credit card numbers - well -
> you might as well do the same with my Quicken data. If you are using that
> argument to say cookies are "unsafe" everything on my workstation is just as
> "unsafe".
> 
> ~Brad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr 23 07:39:26 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:39:26 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>
	<3EA61644.C4C248EE@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c30995$6098a760$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> Where it does work is in instances where (a) the cookie directory is
down-stream of
> an accessible directory and is not "hidden" from
JavaScript/Active-X/whatever

What do you mean by being down-stream of an accessible directory? Accessible
to what? Your browser? I don't believe there are any "accessible"
directories.

Chris Tifer


From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr 23 09:03:53 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:03:53 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: 	<011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474><005f01c30995$6098a760$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<3EA6A1EB.B8A8499C@gazos.com>
Message-ID: <002701c309a1$2c8e8c30$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

> Any directory on the client's machine which contains files which can be
> imported, tested for existence, or otherwise accessed as part of an active
window
> document is what I meant by "accessible".

I must be mistaken, but I know of absolutely no ways to import directories.
There is a way to browse for a single file, but you cannot use any
JavaScript to
read the value in this field.

Also, there is no way to test for existance of a file or directory strictly
through script if run in the context of the browser - at least not in a
major
browser. Now if you were to go download the browser of some schmoe
who's making it available, then of course he could program in some
exploit, but you'd deserver it for using some untested browser.

Can you please give us an example of how to check for existance of a
file or directory?

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr 23 09:22:12 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David T. Lovering)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: <011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474>
	<005f01c30995$6098a760$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <3EA6A1EB.B8A8499C@gazos.com>


Any directory on the client's machine which contains files which can be
imported, tested for existence, or otherwise accessed as part of an active window
document is what I meant by "accessible".  Normally, unless a directory
is hidden or otherwise made unavailable, all child directories of this
parent are also "visible", in that file-existence tests and so forth can
be run against their contents as well.  "Down-stream" is merely a euphemism for 
all child directories that share the same access privileges as the parent.

Naturally, we are speaking in the context of JavaScript files here.  Other
packages (such as Active-X, or PHP) have their own characteristics in terms
of being able to access file resources on the server and/or client, respectively.

Generally, both JavaScript and Java are built around a "secure" file model, and
discourage direct access to file objects on the client system.  However, as we've
seen in the discussions of the last few weeks there are ways to circumvent this
(at least in the case of JavaScript).  Clumsy, awkward, and complicated, it's 
true, but powerful once the scripts to do it have been written.

-- Dave Lovering

Chris Tifer wrote:
> 
> > Where it does work is in instances where (a) the cookie directory is
> down-stream of
> > an accessible directory and is not "hidden" from
> JavaScript/Active-X/whatever
> 
> What do you mean by being down-stream of an accessible directory? Accessible
> to what? Your browser? I don't believe there are any "accessible"
> directories.
> 
> Chris Tifer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr 23 12:28:49 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:28:49 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options
In-Reply-To: <fc.88e6b05f88e6b05fb4bba6963b9aca00.5fc891@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMMEINDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Is there a better way to do this?

<select id='MySelect'>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000135' value='AN000135'>Account 135</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000246' value='AN000246'>Account 246</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000789' value='AN000789'>Account 789</option>
</select>

Given the value "AN000789", I determine that i want "Account 789" to be the
current/active option for MySelect.

  ref.MySelect-AN000789.selected = (true)

I don't want to iterate every option value compared to my key.  ex:

lcKey = 'AN000789'
for (var lnI=0; lnI<ref.MySelect.length; lnI++) {
  if (ref.MySelect.options[lnI].value == lcKey) {
    ref.MySelect.selectedIndex = lnI
    }
  }

Suppose there were a large number of options in the select, and that this
operation were being peformed multiple times...  an interative solution
degrades performance in direct proportion to the number of items iterated
while a direct call should (in theory) be the same performance regardless of
the number of items.


From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr 23 12:43:21 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:43:21 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMMEINDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c309bf$d57d7b80$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

If I were to go this route (and I probably wouldn't just because
you're relying on the browser handling ID's properly, I'd do something
more like this simply becuase it conforms a little more what it seems
standards might eventually settle at. Specifically, using getElementById
to reference a particular element.


==========================
<form >
<select id='MySelect'>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000135' value='AN000135'>Account 135</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000246' value='AN000246'>Account 246</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000789' value='AN000789'>Account 789</option>
</select>

</form>

<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
 var objMySelEl = null
 function selectSomething(strToSelect){
  objMySelEl = document.getElementById(strToSelect)
  objMySelEl.selected = true
 }

 selectSomething("MySelect-AN000246")
//-->
</script>

==========================

Hope that helps,

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options


> Is there a better way to do this?
>
> <select id='MySelect'>
>   <option id='MySelect-AN000135' value='AN000135'>Account 135</option>
>   <option id='MySelect-AN000246' value='AN000246'>Account 246</option>
>   <option id='MySelect-AN000789' value='AN000789'>Account 789</option>
> </select>
>
> Given the value "AN000789", I determine that i want "Account 789" to be
the
> current/active option for MySelect.
>
>   ref.MySelect-AN000789.selected = (true)
>
> I don't want to iterate every option value compared to my key.  ex:
>
> lcKey = 'AN000789'
> for (var lnI=0; lnI<ref.MySelect.length; lnI++) {
>   if (ref.MySelect.options[lnI].value == lcKey) {
>     ref.MySelect.selectedIndex = lnI
>     }
>   }
>
> Suppose there were a large number of options in the select, and that this
> operation were being peformed multiple times...  an interative solution
> degrades performance in direct proportion to the number of items iterated
> while a direct call should (in theory) be the same performance regardless
of
> the number of items.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr 23 13:56:27 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:56:27 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options
In-Reply-To: <fc.130d4a01130d4a0182e546a43b9aca00.5fd4e0@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEIPDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

Why wouldn't one expect the browser to handle ID's properly?  That sounds
like you'd say, "You could keep investments in a BANK, if you expect them to
handle your money properly"

I understand that everyone has a preferred method of accessing objects and
their properties.  Since we're developing an intranet for IE5.5 (and now
IE6) we can tolerate MS's noncompliance.

perhaps it would have been more clear to use pseudocode with no resemblance
to javascript.  I was wondering if there was another strategy for setting an
option to be selected when yoy know the option value, but not the index.
This method (including the more standards compliant rewrite) seems to work
well enough...

(I read over my original, and i admit that "Better" is both subjective and
ambiguous)

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:43 PM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Directly addressible options


If I were to go this route (and I probably wouldn't just because
you're relying on the browser handling ID's properly, I'd do something
more like this simply becuase it conforms a little more what it seems
standards might eventually settle at. Specifically, using getElementById
to reference a particular element.


==========================
<form >
<select id='MySelect'>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000135' value='AN000135'>Account 135</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000246' value='AN000246'>Account 246</option>
  <option id='MySelect-AN000789' value='AN000789'>Account 789</option>
</select>

</form>

<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
 var objMySelEl = null
 function selectSomething(strToSelect){
  objMySelEl = document.getElementById(strToSelect)
  objMySelEl.selected = true
 }

 selectSomething("MySelect-AN000246")
//-->
</script>

==========================

Hope that helps,

Chris Tifer
http://www.emailajoke.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options


>> Is there a better way to do this?
>>
>> <select id='MySelect'>
>>   <option id='MySelect-AN000135' value='AN000135'>Account 135</option>
>>   <option id='MySelect-AN000246' value='AN000246'>Account 246</option>
>>   <option id='MySelect-AN000789' value='AN000789'>Account 789</option>
>> </select>
>>
>> Given the value "AN000789", I determine that i want "Account 789" to be
the
>> current/active option for MySelect.
>>
>>   ref.MySelect-AN000789.selected = (true)
>>
>> I don't want to iterate every option value compared to my key.  ex:
>>
>> lcKey = 'AN000789'
>> for (var lnI=0; lnI<ref.MySelect.length; lnI++) {
>>   if (ref.MySelect.options[lnI].value == lcKey) {
>>     ref.MySelect.selectedIndex = lnI
>>     }
>>   }
>>
>> Suppose there were a large number of options in the select, and that
>this
>> operation were being peformed multiple times...  an interative solution
>> degrades performance in direct proportion to the number of items
>iterated
>> while a direct call should (in theory) be the same performance
>regardless
of
>> the number of items.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Javascript mailing list
>> Javascript at LaTech.edu
>> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript

_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From uplate at attbi.com  Wed Apr 23 13:57:08 2003
From: uplate at attbi.com (uplate at attbi.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:57:08 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] FW: Severe 'newbie' help with checkbox/submit
Message-ID: <20030423185709.EE5BB30948E@LaTech.edu>

Hi Pat I don't know if this would help,
Here's an HTML DOC that uses a radio group to accomplish what you want:
You may have to correct some text wrapping.
*****************PASTE TEXT BELOW THIS LINE INTO HTML DOC***********************
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Open URLS</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
var myURL;
function setVar(val)
{
	myURL = val;
}

function openURL()
{
	var newWin = window.open(myURL,"","");
}
//-->
</script> 
</head>
<body>
<form name="form1" method="post" action="">
<table width="200">
  <tr>
    <td><label>
      <input type="radio" name="myURLS" onClick="setVar('http://www.ebay.com')">
      EBay</label>
    </td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td><label>
      <input type="radio" name="myURLS" onClick="setVar
('http://www.foxnews.com')">
      Fox</label>
    </td>
  </tr>
</table>
  <input type="button" name="Submit" value="Submit" onClick="openURL()">
  </p>
</form>
</body>
</html>
**************************End Of HTML DOC***************************
> This may be the wrong list to send this request to, but perhaps it is and I
> could use all the help I can get!  Perhaps JavaScript can provide a
> solution!
> 
> > I have a page from which I'd like to establish functionality to enable
> > URLs to be activated when submit button pressed.  Which URL would be
> > activated would be dictated by which checkbox is checked.
> > 
> > This should be a common task and I'm new at this.  I'm a bit embarassed
> > with my code because it so blatently doesn't work.   Can anyone help?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > Pat Gorden-Ozgul
> > pgo at bnl.gov
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > *************example code snippet from
> > Response.asp************************
> > 
> > <p align="left">What action would you like to take?<br><br>
> > 	<input name="action1" type=checkbox value="ON">Create a New
> > Submission <br>
> > 	<input name="action2" type=checkbox value="ON">Modify a Previous
> > Submission <br>
> > </p>
> > 	<input type=submit value="Submit">
> > 	
> > 	
> > <%
> > if request("action1") = ""
> > 'checkbox is not selected

> > else
> > 'checkbox is selected
> > %>
> > <form method="post" action"http:://directory/first.htm">
> > 
> > </form>
> > <%
> > end if
> > %>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr 23 14:09:46 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:09:46 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Object Access
In-Reply-To: <fc.e6f9196ee6f9196e3b9aca0082e546a4.5fd8cf@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMIEJADEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

oRef = document.getElementById("ElementID")

is the the "approved" syntax for getting an object reference?
Is it worthwhile to write/use wrapper functions like this:

function getObjRef( tcObjectID ) {
  return document.getElementById( tcObjectID )
}

oRef = getObjRef("ElementID")
alert(oRef.value)

Why??

From christ at saeweb.com  Wed Apr 23 14:34:32 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:34:32 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Directly addressible options
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMKEIPDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <002201c309cf$5da0ded0$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Dougherty" <Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com>
To: <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] Directly addressible options


> Why wouldn't one expect the browser to handle ID's properly?  That sounds
> like you'd say, "You could keep investments in a BANK, if you expect them
to
> handle your money properly"

Banks have pretty much always handled money. That's what they were built
for. IE3 and NN4 weren't too swift with ID's.  Hence, not all browsers can
handle
ID's properly.


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 24 01:25:40 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:25:40 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] Object Access
Message-ID: <Sea2-F67fGdMNFmWAFs00002a98@hotmail.com>



>oRef = document.getElementById("ElementID")
>
>is the the "approved" syntax for getting an object reference?

It's the W3C DOM way. It won't work in Version 4 and earlier browsers.

>Is it worthwhile to write/use wrapper functions like this:
>
>function getObjRef( tcObjectID ) {
>   return document.getElementById( tcObjectID )
>}
>
>oRef = getObjRef("ElementID")
>alert(oRef.value)

No. Why should you write this function? The only time that's useful is when 
you want to use several DOMs and make sure the browser uses the DOM it 
supports. See http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?dhtmloptions.html for 
an example.

--------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
--------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


From christ at saeweb.com  Thu Apr 24 09:12:54 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:12:54 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: 	<011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474><005f01c30995$6098a760$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><3EA6A1EB.B8A8499C@gazos.com><002701c309a1$2c8e8c30$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
	<000601c30a72$ad516cd0$0300000a@arcana>
Message-ID: <015801c30a6b$99ca5b60$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

I don't believe any of these filesystem methods neccessary to read a
directory's contents are available when run in the browser's context,
unless you were running in a safe zone.

Now if you create some code and place it in a .js file and run it
by itself, then you're running it under the Windows Scripting Host
(WSH - look into it if you're at all interested - very cool stuff can
be done) which is much more powerful and robust.

As I said earlier, most, if not all, exploits have been made a non-
threat nowadays.

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lovering" <dlovering at gazos.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?


> Admittedly, most of the tricks I've seen recently depend on Microsoft
> extensions to IE in the JScript/Javascript
> department.  I would refer you to
>
> File.Attributes
> File.Copy
> File.DateCreated
> File.DateLastAccessed
> File.DateLastModified
> File.Delete
> File.Drive
> File.Move
> File.Name
> File.OpenAsTextStream
> File.ParentFolder
> File.Path
> File.ShortName
> File.ShortPath
> File.Size
> File.Type
>
> In addition, there are some nifty Folder commands/Attributes as well:
>
> Folder.Copy
> Folder.Delete
> Folder.Move
> Folder.Attributes
> Folder.DateCreated
> Folder.DateLastAccessed
> Folder.DateLastModified
> Folder.Drive
> Folder.Files
> Folder.IsRootFolder
> Folder.Name
> Folder.ParentFolder
> Folder.Path
> Folder.ShortName
> Folder.ShortPath
> Folder.Size
> Folder.SubFolders
> Folder.Type
>
> The Folder.Files directive returns an array of all the file objects within
> the folder specified.  Using File.Type in a loop enables you to examine
each
> one in turn.  Opening each one as a text stream is useful for breaking out
> the contents (does not work for hidden files, for obvious reasons).
>
> There are a number of other similar directives which I won't elucidate
upon,
> given the space restrictions.
>
> It should be noted that these are Microsoft's Scripting Engine Extensions,
> and are in most cases specific to late-model IE implementations.  I'm
> convinced that the bulk of these were originally written to facilitate
> server-side Javascripts, but according to the MS Technotes these are
> ostensibly offered within each client browser as well.
>
> I hope this explains my impressions voiced in the earlier message(s).
>
> -- Dave Lovering
>
> P.S:  I would refer you to Chapter 9, "Microsoft's Scripting Engine
> Extensions" in the SAMS book "Pure Javascript" by Wyke, Gilliam, and Ting.
> I was working off the 1999 edition, but I understand there's a newer one
> out.  Similar kinds of extensions exist in the Netscape regime, but of
> course it would be unwise to presume that the two sets are in any way
> one-to-one and onto.


From dlovering at gazos.com  Thu Apr 24 10:03:34 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:03:34 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?
References: 	<011301c3090e$7f9af640$ae00000a@sfs0474><005f01c30995$6098a760$f10110ac@saweb.lcl><3EA6A1EB.B8A8499C@gazos.com>
	<002701c309a1$2c8e8c30$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>
Message-ID: <000601c30a72$ad516cd0$0300000a@arcana>

Admittedly, most of the tricks I've seen recently depend on Microsoft
extensions to IE in the JScript/Javascript
department.  I would refer you to

File.Attributes
File.Copy
File.DateCreated
File.DateLastAccessed
File.DateLastModified
File.Delete
File.Drive
File.Move
File.Name
File.OpenAsTextStream
File.ParentFolder
File.Path
File.ShortName
File.ShortPath
File.Size
File.Type

In addition, there are some nifty Folder commands/Attributes as well:

Folder.Copy
Folder.Delete
Folder.Move
Folder.Attributes
Folder.DateCreated
Folder.DateLastAccessed
Folder.DateLastModified
Folder.Drive
Folder.Files
Folder.IsRootFolder
Folder.Name
Folder.ParentFolder
Folder.Path
Folder.ShortName
Folder.ShortPath
Folder.Size
Folder.SubFolders
Folder.Type

The Folder.Files directive returns an array of all the file objects within
the folder specified.  Using File.Type in a loop enables you to examine each
one in turn.  Opening each one as a text stream is useful for breaking out
the contents (does not work for hidden files, for obvious reasons).

There are a number of other similar directives which I won't elucidate upon,
given the space restrictions.

It should be noted that these are Microsoft's Scripting Engine Extensions,
and are in most cases specific to late-model IE implementations.  I'm
convinced that the bulk of these were originally written to facilitate
server-side Javascripts, but according to the MS Technotes these are
ostensibly offered within each client browser as well.

I hope this explains my impressions voiced in the earlier message(s).

-- Dave Lovering

P.S:  I would refer you to Chapter 9, "Microsoft's Scripting Engine
Extensions" in the SAMS book "Pure Javascript" by Wyke, Gilliam, and Ting.
I was working off the 1999 edition, but I understand there's a newer one
out.  Similar kinds of extensions exist in the Netscape regime, but of
course it would be unwise to presume that the two sets are in any way
one-to-one and onto.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tifer" <christ at saeweb.com>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Javascript] Can I Give Myself a Cookie ?


> > Any directory on the client's machine which contains files which can be
> > imported, tested for existence, or otherwise accessed as part of an
active
> window
> > document is what I meant by "accessible".
>
> I must be mistaken, but I know of absolutely no ways to import
directories.
> There is a way to browse for a single file, but you cannot use any
> JavaScript to
> read the value in this field.
>
> Also, there is no way to test for existance of a file or directory
strictly
> through script if run in the context of the browser - at least not in a
> major
> browser. Now if you were to go download the browser of some schmoe
> who's making it available, then of course he could program in some
> exploit, but you'd deserver it for using some untested browser.
>
> Can you please give us an example of how to check for existance of a
> file or directory?
>
> Chris Tifer
> http://emailajoke.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From cbunbury20 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 24 11:51:46 2003
From: cbunbury20 at yahoo.com (carlos morrison)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Javascript] HELP WITH SUBSCRIPTION
In-Reply-To: <20030422173557.68001.qmail@web41203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030424165146.56067.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

can some of the administrators take me off of this
club I never join!!! I am sudentlly recibing a
truckload of mails of javascript wich I dont know what
is, I dont know who add me or why but please take me
off I have never beeen to your site!!


thanks

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From peter at brunone.com  Thu Apr 24 12:00:47 2003
From: peter at brunone.com (Peter Brunone)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:00:47 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Form field arrays in IE 5+
Message-ID: <200304241300.AA1031405690@brunone.com>

I could've sworn I've done this before.

   I'm looping through a form's elements, and when I get to a radio button or checkbox, I want to determine whether any options are checked.  Now, as far as I can remember, if you have a radio/checkbox collection with all elements named the same, then you can treat it as an array... BUT, for some reason, IE is still acting as if each of them is a separate entity, which really gives me no way to tie them together.  Below is a sample piece of script I'm using to get the pieces, but the browser refuses to believe that four <input type="radio"> with the same name are really pieces of one collection.

    for(var i=0;i<document.mainForm.elements.length;i++) {
        if(currentField.type == "text") {
            if(currentField.value == "") { isValid = 0 }
            }
        else if(currentField.type == "radio") {
            isChecked = 0;
            j = 0;
            for(var j=0;j<currentField.length;j++) {                
                if(currentField[j].checked == true) {isChecked = 1}
                alert(currentField.value + " " + currentField.checked); // Debugging
                }
            if(isChecked == 0) { isValid = 0 }
            }
        }

What am I missing?

Cheers,

Peter

From peter at brunone.com  Thu Apr 24 12:02:57 2003
From: peter at brunone.com (Peter Brunone)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:02:57 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Form field arrays in IE 5+
Message-ID: <200304241302.AA573505640@brunone.com>

Sorry; I forgot a crucial line (see below).  That's what I get for cutting and pasting pieces...

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Peter Brunone" <peter at brunone.com>

>I could've sworn I've done this before.
>
>   I'm looping through a form's elements, and when I get to a radio button or checkbox, I want to determine whether any options are checked.  Now, as far as I can remember, if you have a radio/checkbox collection with all elements named the same, then you can treat it as an array... BUT, for some reason, IE is still acting as if each of them is a separate entity, which really gives me no way to tie them together.  Below is a sample piece of script I'm using to get the pieces, but the browser refuses to believe that four <input type="radio"> with the same name are really pieces of one collection.
>
>    for(var i=0;i<document.mainForm.elements.length;i++) {

         currentField = document.mainForm.elements[i];

>        if(currentField.type == "text") {
>            if(currentField.value == "") { isValid = 0 }
>            }
>        else if(currentField.type == "radio") {
>            isChecked = 0;
>            j = 0;
>            for(var j=0;j<currentField.length;j++) {                
>                if(currentField[j].checked == true) {isChecked = 1}
>                alert(currentField.value + " " + currentField.checked); // Debugging
>                }
>            if(isChecked == 0) { isValid = 0 }
>            }
>        }

From christ at saeweb.com  Thu Apr 24 12:37:30 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:37:30 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] Form field arrays in IE 5+
References: <200304241300.AA1031405690@brunone.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c30a88$2ea54940$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

Peter, so what exactly is it you're trying to do? Is this part of a function
that's called when someone tries to submit a form? When the element
loses focus?  Through an onChange event?

The reason I ask is because I'll give you some code that'll work, but the
basic problem you're having is that you're grabbing one element at a time.
Now when you check the length of that, naturally, it's only one element.

Now if you were to do something like this once you came across a
radio collection (or checkbox):

var objArrEl = document.mainForm.elements[currentField.name]

THEN you'd have an array of elements since your code was initially
wanting to only look at one particular element and this is saying "Let's
look at all the elements with this name"..

Get my drift?

Chris Tifer
http://emailajoke.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Brunone" <peter at brunone.com>
To: <javascript at latech.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: [Javascript] Form field arrays in IE 5+


> I could've sworn I've done this before.
>
>    I'm looping through a form's elements, and when I get to a radio button
or checkbox, I want to determine whether any options are checked.  Now, as
far as I can remember, if you have a radio/checkbox collection with all
elements named the same, then you can treat it as an array... BUT, for some
reason, IE is still acting as if each of them is a separate entity, which
really gives me no way to tie them together.  Below is a sample piece of
script I'm using to get the pieces, but the browser refuses to believe that
four <input type="radio"> with the same name are really pieces of one
collection.
>
>     for(var i=0;i<document.mainForm.elements.length;i++) {
>         if(currentField.type == "text") {
>             if(currentField.value == "") { isValid = 0 }
>             }
>         else if(currentField.type == "radio") {
>             isChecked = 0;
>             j = 0;
>             for(var j=0;j<currentField.length;j++) {
>                 if(currentField[j].checked == true) {isChecked = 1}
>                 alert(currentField.value + " " + currentField.checked); //
Debugging
>                 }
>             if(isChecked == 0) { isValid = 0 }
>             }
>         }
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Thu Apr 24 13:56:40 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:56:40 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
In-Reply-To: <fc.102021a6102021a61eed95f53b9aca00.600805@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEKDDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

<span style='width: 200; height: 300; overflow: auto;'>
  <table>
    <tr>
      <th>Name</th>
      <th>Value</th>
    </tr>
    <tr>
      <td>Row1</td>
      <td>Val1</td>
    </tr>
    (many more rows)
  </table>
</span>

Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it doesn't scroll
off the visible area of it's container span?

I would like to not have to define the widths of the columns and have a
fixed table with one row for the header outside the span...



From thegooddrummer at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 24 14:07:25 2003
From: thegooddrummer at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?a=20good=20drummer?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:07:25 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEKDDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <20030424190725.40748.qmail@web21506.mail.yahoo.com>


just leave me alone stop clogging up my inbox




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
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From christ at saeweb.com  Thu Apr 24 14:34:52 2003
From: christ at saeweb.com (Chris Tifer)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:34:52 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
References: <20030424190725.40748.qmail@web21506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c30a98$93dbfb00$f10110ac@saweb.lcl>

It doesn't take a javascripter to realize there's a URL at the bottom and if 
you were to look there, you'll see a way of unsubscribing...


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: a good drummer 
  To: [JavaScript List] 
  Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Javascript] overflow: auto


  just leave me alone stop clogging up my inbox






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Javascript mailing list
  Javascript at LaTech.edu
  https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
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From Travis.Falls at thehartford.com  Fri Apr 25 14:24:19 2003
From: Travis.Falls at thehartford.com (Falls, Travis D (CASD, IT))
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:24:19 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] radio button form validation issue
Message-ID:     <951967FCF5C4D211B0610008C75D2AA11224B15B@ct01excmb01.thehartford.com>

Here is my script, the mySurvey[i] is evaluating to undefined, but if I
reference the actual name of the radio button I get the proper amount.  any
ideas?
 
 
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
    function validateForm(mySurvey){
         for(i=0; i<mySurvey.length; i++){
  
              if(mySurvey[i].type=="radio"){ 
                   var isSelected=false;
   
                   for(u=0; u < mySurvey[i].length; u++){
                        if(mySurvey[i][u].checked){
                             alert("correct");
                             isSelected=true;
                             return true; 
                        }//ends if
                        else{
                             alert("inCSorrect");
                        } 
                   }//ends for u 
               }//ends if radio 
         } //ends for i 
     return false;
    }//ends function
</script>
 
__________________________________________________________

Travis D. Falls
software engineer

HTSC/CASD/IT
 <mailto:travis.falls at thehartford.com> travis.falls at thehartford.com 
phone: 860.547.4070
fax: 860.723.4463
__________________________________________________________ 
 


This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of 
addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged 
information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, 
disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If 
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender 
immediately by return email and delete this communication and destroy all copies.

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From peter at brunone.com  Fri Apr 25 15:29:57 2003
From: peter at brunone.com (Peter Brunone)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:29:57 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] radio button form validation issue
In-Reply-To: <951967FCF5C4D211B0610008C75D2AA11224B15B@ct01excmb01.thehartford.com>
Message-ID: <CIEDIMKHOBJDFFNLECOPOEOKEIAA.peter@brunone.com>

Travis,

	I asked almost the same question earlier this week.  It seems we both have
the same mental block (cleared courtesy of Chris Tifer).

	What you need to do, rather than referencing the individual elements of the
form (which have no length), is to get the name of the particular radio
group you want to evaluate as an array.  In this case, the changes I've made
below should do the trick.  You want to refer to the element by name rather
than by index within the form, so that you can treat it as an array of
like-named elements instead of as a single element.

Cheers,

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu On Behalf Of Falls, Travis D

Here is my script, the mySurvey[i] is evaluating to undefined, but if I
reference the actual name of the radio button I get the proper amount.  any
ideas?


<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
    function validateForm(mySurvey){
         for(i=0; i<mySurvey.length; i++){

              if(mySurvey[i].type=="radio"){
                   var isSelected=false;

		       currentName = mySurvey[i].name // added

                   currentField = mySurvey.elements[currentName]; //added

                   for(u=0; u < currentField.length; u++){ // changed
                        if(currentField[u].checked){ // changed
                             alert("correct");
                             isSelected=true;
                             return true;
                        }//ends if
                        else{
                             alert("inCSorrect");
                        }
                   }//ends for u
               }//ends if radio
         } //ends for i
     return false;
    }//ends function
</script>

__________________________________________________________

Travis D. Falls


From bob at web-walrus.com  Fri Apr 25 20:46:19 2003
From: bob at web-walrus.com (Robert Wall)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:46:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Javascript] Non-Evil Exit Consoles
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1051321286.466.javascript@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.33.0304252040210.26475-100000@iceberg.web-walrus.com>

I'm looking to do an exit console.  Here is the basic idea (in English
pseudo-code) of what we want to do:

if the visitor is leaving a page {
  if they're going to somewhere else on our site {
    do nothing;
  }
  if they're leaving our site completely {
    pop up exit console;
  }
}

Just using an onUnload() function to pop up the window gives them the
window every time they click any link or refresh any page on our site,
which gets annoying quickly.

I want them to get the exit page, but only when they navigate completely
away from our site.

Does anybody have any ideas for doing this?  Any help you could offer
would be greatly appreciated...

-----
Robert Wall						(715) 855-0189
Systems Administrator                                   bob at web-walrus.com
Web Walrus Media

            "Affordable internet solutions for your business"


From rodney at aflyingstart.net  Sat Apr 26 05:17:43 2003
From: rodney at aflyingstart.net (Rodney Myers)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:17:43 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] Non-Evil Exit Consoles
References: <Pine.BSF.4.33.0304252040210.26475-100000@iceberg.web-walrus.com>
Message-ID: <3EAA5CC7.9080004@aflyingstart.net>

Robert,

off  the "top of my head" a suggestion :
Make the exit routine dependent on a variable.
Set the variable false in the onClick of all internal links, but true 
onLoad of your pages.

hth

Rodney

Robert Wall wrote:

>I'm looking to do an exit console.  Here is the basic idea (in English
>pseudo-code) of what we want to do:
>
>if the visitor is leaving a page {
>  if they're going to somewhere else on our site {
>    do nothing;
>  }
>  if they're leaving our site completely {
>    pop up exit console;
>  }
>}
>
>Just using an onUnload() function to pop up the window gives them the
>window every time they click any link or refresh any page on our site,
>which gets annoying quickly.
>
>I want them to get the exit page, but only when they navigate completely
>away from our site.
>
>Does anybody have any ideas for doing this?  Any help you could offer
>would be greatly appreciated...
>
>-----
>Robert Wall						(715) 855-0189
>Systems Administrator                                   bob at web-walrus.com
>Web Walrus Media
>
>  
>

-- 
PS. I have just bought a licence for Mike Chen's
BizAutomator. If you have to answer routine 
email queries from your sites or mailings then
you need this as much as I do. 
http://www.BizAutomator.com/rlbm51 

Rodney





From walter at torres.ws  Tue Apr 29 22:59:13 2003
From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:59:13 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEKDDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEFGCCAA.walter@torres.ws>

The only way I've been able to "mimic" this behaviour was to create 2
seperate tables. One for the HEADER and another, inside an overflow region,
containing the data.

Walter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Dougherty
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: javascript at LaTech.edu
> Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
>
>
> <span style='width: 200; height: 300; overflow: auto;'>
>   <table>
>     <tr>
>       <th>Name</th>
>       <th>Value</th>
>     </tr>
>     <tr>
>       <td>Row1</td>
>       <td>Val1</td>
>     </tr>
>     (many more rows)
>   </table>
> </span>
>
> Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it
> doesn't scroll
> off the visible area of it's container span?
>
> I would like to not have to define the widths of the columns and have a
> fixed table with one row for the header outside the span...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From dlovering at gazos.com  Wed Apr 30 00:27:29 2003
From: dlovering at gazos.com (David Lovering)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:27:29 -0600
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEFGCCAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <001701c30ed9$316d61d0$0600000a@arcana>

The method you suggest is certainly the easiest.  The other is to build a 2D
array in which each row represents a row in the table.
Using createElement and deleteElement commands you could then selectively
delete rows from the top/bottom and add rows on the opposite side to
simulate scrolling, based upon the presumption that only N rows would be
visible (in addition to the header).  The data fields would be loaded from
the appropriate array values.

This would only require one real table, but would be commensurately more
complicated.

-- Dave Lovering

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Javascript] overflow: auto


> The only way I've been able to "mimic" this behaviour was to create 2
> seperate tables. One for the HEADER and another, inside an overflow
region,
> containing the data.
>
> Walter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Dougherty
> > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:57 PM
> > To: javascript at LaTech.edu
> > Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
> >
> >
> > <span style='width: 200; height: 300; overflow: auto;'>
> >   <table>
> >     <tr>
> >       <th>Name</th>
> >       <th>Value</th>
> >     </tr>
> >     <tr>
> >       <td>Row1</td>
> >       <td>Val1</td>
> >     </tr>
> >     (many more rows)
> >   </table>
> > </span>
> >
> > Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it
> > doesn't scroll
> > off the visible area of it's container span?
> >
> > I would like to not have to define the widths of the columns and have a
> > fixed table with one row for the header outside the span...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
>



From spindrift at oceanfree.net  Wed Apr 30 01:09:04 2003
From: spindrift at oceanfree.net (Tim Makins)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:09:04 +0100
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
References: <EBEGKCFDDFJLKNLFBHCCOEFGCCAA.walter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <009901c30edf$05f2cd00$2ba6cad5@host>

There is a very neat example of doing this using iframes.....
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/iframe.html

Its about 1/3 down the page, in the section headed 'Simulating scrollable
tables'

Tim in Ireland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Torres" <walter at torres.ws>
To: "[JavaScript List]" <javascript at LaTech.edu>
Sent: 30 April 2003 04:59
Subject: RE: [Javascript] overflow: auto


> The only way I've been able to "mimic" this behaviour was to create 2
> seperate tables. One for the HEADER and another, inside an overflow
region,
> containing the data.
>
> Walter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu
> > [mailto:javascript-bounces at LaTech.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Dougherty
> > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:57 PM
> > To: javascript at LaTech.edu
> > Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
> >
> >
> > <span style='width: 200; height: 300; overflow: auto;'>
> >   <table>
> >     <tr>
> >       <th>Name</th>
> >       <th>Value</th>
> >     </tr>
> >     <tr>
> >       <td>Row1</td>
> >       <td>Val1</td>
> >     </tr>
> >     (many more rows)
> >   </table>
> > </span>
> >
> > Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it
> > doesn't scroll
> > off the visible area of it's container span?
> >
> > I would like to not have to define the widths of the columns and have a
> > fixed table with one row for the header outside the span...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Javascript mailing list
> > Javascript at LaTech.edu
> > https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript
>


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Wed Apr 30 08:33:22 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 06:33:22 -0700
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
In-Reply-To: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEKDDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
References: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMOEKDDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>
Message-ID: <3EAFD0A2.2040508@webtuitive.com>

Michael Dougherty wrote:

> Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it doesn't scroll
> off the visible area of it's container span?

Define "convenient" :-)  It's standard CSS, works great in Mozilla,
but of course IE doesn't support it.

Use THEAD and TBODY tags, set `overflow: auto` and `height: 300px`
(for example) on TBODY, and Bob's your uncle ...

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com  Wed Apr 30 08:43:14 2003
From: Michael_Dougherty at PBP.com (Michael Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:43:14 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] overflow: auto
In-Reply-To: <fc.57840a4357840a4399d47ef73b9aca00.610038@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLKCIELONPCLANCIMAEPLDEAA.Michael_Dougherty@PBP.com>

I did research the thead and tbody tags... of course our intranet is
standardized on IE5.5+ for all the other proprietary IE junk...

My main issue was to make a scrollable table with a constantly visible
header, but without requiring a fixed width on the columns.  The routines to
keep the header and data widths synch'd are more complex than i care to
decypher - so i'll probably just maintain an array of column names and their
appropriate widths, so i can set a specific width in both tables.

The iframe trick would be fine if the data wasn't all generated client-side
as a result of an ADO query.

Back when the virtual world was formed, we had great big machines that
served interfaces to dumb little machines.  The little machines grew up and
got smart enough to force the big machines to retire to niche environments.
Now those same grown up machines are serving another generation of (not
quite as) dumb little (virtual) machines.  Interesting, huh?

-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:33 AM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: Re: [Javascript] overflow: auto


Michael Dougherty wrote:

>> Is there a convenient way to lock the table header so that it doesn't
>scroll
>> off the visible area of it's container span?

Define "convenient" :-)  It's standard CSS, works great in Mozilla,
but of course IE doesn't support it.

Use THEAD and TBODY tags, set `overflow: auto` and `height: 300px`
(for example) on TBODY, and Bob's your uncle ...

HTH!
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.



_______________________________________________
Javascript mailing list
Javascript at LaTech.edu
https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From ak429 at chebucto.ns.ca  Wed Apr 30 11:07:19 2003
From: ak429 at chebucto.ns.ca (Edwin Davidson)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:07:19 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: [Javascript] wanted-a database script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40.1051718498.466.javascript@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.1030430130507.4192A-100000@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca>

I need a javascript script that will take user-entered fields from a HTML
form and use these to build a SQL 'select' statement.  The script will
then open and connect to my Microsoft Access table on our site and
displaying the results set, looping throught each one starting at the 1st
one and going until it hits EOF. 

I've searched and searched on the web for just this - a HTML form and a
javascript script.  Nothing.  So would someone take pity on me and email
to me the code for the HTML form and a javascript to go with it.  I can
edit it when I get it. 

Thank you very much.

Edwin
ak429 at chebucto.ns.ca


From uplate at attbi.com  Wed Apr 30 11:42:35 2003
From: uplate at attbi.com (uplate at attbi.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:42:35 +0000
Subject: [Javascript] wanted-a database script
Message-ID: <20030430164237.2EE09308E87@LaTech.edu>

If you're looking for a javascript to connect to an Access DB, I believe youre
out of luck. It can be done in JScript, Microsofts version of Javascript.
Why not just submit the form to an ASP page and parse the request.form object 
to build your SQL and open an ADO connection to the database?

This may or may not be helpful to you: ASP code for looping through a customers 
table.
<%

Dim SQL
Dim oConn
Dim rs

SQL = "SELECT CUSTOMER_NAME FROM CUSTOMERS WHERE ID = " & Request.Form
("MY_FORM_ELEMENT") & ";" 
    

Set oConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
    
Set rs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset")

oConn.Open MY_CONNECTION_STRING_HERE
rs.ActiveConnection = oConn
rs.Source = SQL
rs.CursorType = 0
rs.CursorLocation = 3
rs.LockType = 1
rs.Open()


Do until rs.EOF

Response.Write(rs("LAST_NAME") & "<br>")

rs.MoveNext
Loop

rs.Close
oConn.Close

%>
> I need a javascript script that will take user-entered fields from a HTML
> form and use these to build a SQL 'select' statement.  The script will
> then open and connect to my Microsoft Access table on our site and
> displaying the results set, looping throught each one starting at the 1st
> one and going until it hits EOF. 
> 
> I've searched and searched on the web for just this - a HTML form and a
> javascript script.  Nothing.  So would someone take pity on me and email
> to me the code for the HTML form and a javascript to go with it.  I can
> edit it when I get it. 
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Edwin
> ak429 at chebucto.ns.ca
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Javascript mailing list
> Javascript at LaTech.edu
> https://lists.LaTech.edu/mailman/listinfo/javascript


From merchant at LATECH.EDU  Wed Apr 30 13:36:50 2003
From: merchant at LATECH.EDU (David Merchant)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [Javascript] JavaScript List Web Page Updated
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030430132809.03d988e8@mail.latech.edu>

The List's Web site <http://www.mountaindragon.com/javascript/> has been 
updated, especially the Resources page where links have been removed, 
changed and added. Some bad links I didn't yet remove: those that are 
presently reporting connection time outs or connection refused and will 
monitor those over the next few days to see if they come back up. 
Additionally the WebTV JavaScript site is presently down due to a hack 
attack to the Website, so I haven't been able to check that link.

If there are any major, or otherwise very helpful or useful JavaScript 
Websites that you feel should be added to the Resources page, please send 
me the URL.

TTFN,
David Merchant

Director of Integrated Technology
CATALyST
Louisiana Tech University
Carson Taylor Hall, Rm. 130
Adams Street
(PO Box 3179)
Ruston, LA 71272
Tel: (318) 257-4772
Fax: (318) 257-3852
projectlife.latech.edu
c3.latech.edu
catalyst.latech.edu
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From andyg at ihug.co.nz  Wed Apr 30 14:30:18 2003
From: andyg at ihug.co.nz (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:30:18 +1200
Subject: [Javascript] wanted-a database script
References: <20030430164237.2EE09308E87@LaTech.edu>
Message-ID: <003e01c30f4e$efb41c90$75e7adcb@k1n8i8>

Do you mean a script where the javascript will parse the form contents into
a SQL string and then send to the server?
If so, I suspect it would not be a good thing security wise to send a sql
string to the server, rqather you should parse the form values on the
server, not on the client.

A script to parse any form results into a sql string would be useful indeed!

I've been working on one to automatically generate a form, based on a SQL
query, but not vice versa.

Andrew

> > I need a javascript script that will take user-entered fields from a
HTML
> > form and use these to build a SQL 'select' statement.  The script will
> > then open and connect to my Microsoft Access table on our site and
> > displaying the results set, looping throught each one starting at the
1st
> > one and going until it hits EOF.
> >
> > I've searched and searched on the web for just this - a HTML form and a
> > javascript script.  Nothing.  So would someone take pity on me and email
> > to me the code for the HTML form and a javascript to go with it.  I can
> > edit it when I get it.
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> >




From michael_dougherty at pbp.com  Wed Apr 30 14:39:48 2003
From: michael_dougherty at pbp.com (Miked Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:39:48 -0400
Subject: [Javascript] wanted-a database script
In-Reply-To: <fc.09af241209af241209af24123b9aca00.6109b2@pbp.com>
Message-ID: <001201c30f50$44bd41c0$1702010a@IT23>

Are you expecting the client's machine to be able to access the data
server directly?  

If you just want the user to send the html form data back to the web
server for processing, then you don't need a script to do that.

I know late-model IE will warn against a local script attempting to
directly access the database using an ADO connection.  This will require
either continual approval from the user, or a configuration change on
each client.  Exposing your database server to the internet is also a
security concern.  

If your use is on a firewall-protected intranet where you have trusted
control of the desktop/browser running the app, then having a local
script make it's own connection to the database can dramatically improve
performance of a 'conversational' form (and lower overhead on the Web
server)

Can you provide more information about what you are trying to do?


-----Original Message-----
From: javascript at LaTech.edu [mailto:javascript at LaTech.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:07 AM
To: javascript at latech.edu
Subject: [Javascript] wanted-a database script
Importance: Low


I need a javascript script that will take user-entered fields from a
HTML
form and use these to build a SQL 'select' statement.  The script will
then open and connect to my Microsoft Access table on our site and
displaying the results set, looping throught each one starting at the
1st
one and going until it hits EOF.