[Theforum] ballot not complete

Martin martin at members.evolt.org
Sun Dec 30 12:32:59 CST 2001


On Sunday, December 30, 2001, at 05:53  pm, mccreath wrote:

> I'm sorry to drag this stupid topic out so long, but if there is to be a
> vote, I need some clarification.

Fair enough

> Martin, I think your ballot is a good start, but ...
>
>> 1) Does evolt have an IRC channel? If so:
>> Option A:
>>     The channel is a public evolt channel called #evolt which follows
>>     the same rules as the rest of evolt's public spaces, which is to
>>     say, the same standard of behaviour and the same public 
>> archiving[1].
>>     If the only way to archive this is with a bot, the bot will be
>>     clearly identified as such, and will not respond to other users on
>>     the channel. No other bots will be permitted in this channel.
>>     No previous archives held by bot owners may be made public.
>>     Standards of behaviour will be maintained by a number of ops in
>>     a range of timezones[2].
>> Option B:
>>     All other evolt public spaces join #evolt in being unarchived,
>>     including thelist, thechat, thesite, thetips, theforum and Admin.
>
> I don't think these are the only two valid options. Yes, all of evolt's
> current online public spaces are archived and available to anyone who 
> wants
> them. But clearly, there are several people on this list who feel that 
> it
> would be valid to keep #evolt unarchived. In fairness to them, and to 
> have a
> complete vote we need:
>
> Option C:
>      The channel is a public evolt channel called #evolt which follows
>      the same rules as the rest of evolt's public spaces, which is to
>      say, the same standard of behaviour.
>      This forum will not be archived unless it is used for an official
>      meeting of the evolt.org Board of Directors, in which case it will
>      be archived an made publicly available on www.evolt.org.
>      No previous archives held by bot owners may be made public.

That's essentially the same as option B, but with less consistency.

I think you're more consistent with:
> I was one of the Admins who argued strenuously against opening the Admin
> archive, believing that there is a reason for private, but archived
> conversation among the decision makers of an organization.

but as the evolt policy is for openness, it's not valid to have openness
in some public spaces, but not others.

> 4) Standards of behaviour will be maintained by a number of ops in
>    a range of timezones[2].
>
> If it is clear to users that #evolt has the same standards of behavior 
> as
> thelist and thesite,

It should, but it doesn't. I don't know if you saw it, David, but Adrian
quoted some abusive behaviour which didn't seem to be criticised
by those in the channel at the time.

> I think it will police itself pretty well.

And when it does, the need for ops will be reduced. It's also
useful to have a range of ops for balance - moderation of ops
really, ensuring that there isn't an over-zealousness.

>
>> 2) Evolt members who want a private discussion can start one or more
>>   private channels where they can have their own privacy and their own
>>   standards of behaviour and archiving rules. The only evolt interest
>>   in this is that it is not labelled with a name which associates it
>>   with evolt.
>
> We can certainly request that they not label their channels with evolt, 
> but
> how would we enforce it?

Fair point - but it needs to be there as an expected behaviour. It's
pretty much the same as registering domain names fwiw - I wouldn't
expect an evolt member to register evoltsux.org either.

>> [1]
>> Archiving background: Evolt has a policy of being open, and this 
>> openness
>> is generally agreed to by all. This was the reason why Admin and 
>> theforum
>> are both archived. All other evolt spaces which anyone can join are 
>> also
>> archived.
>
> Not addressed in any of this voting:

This voting more about principles (*what* do we want) rather than
practicalities (*how* do we do it)

> Where will the archives be stored?
> Who will maintain them?
> How will their existence be publicized?

These aren't insoluble problems - fwiw I'm happy to do the maintenance
and I'm sure others would be too.

Cheers
Martin
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