[Theforum] Re: [offlist] flash accessibility/usability

[aardvark]

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at members.evolt.org>
>
> ok, and i'm not trying to be a jerk here(which i'm sure you know, but
> others may not see it), but who else is a list moderator? tangent: is
> a list moderator anyone who sends an email offlist to trim
> posts/whatever?

from my understanding since day 1 of evolt.org, all of the admins
(those on admin@) were *moderators* of thelist... not all admins
(on admins@), however, are list admins of thelist...

> 3 of the 4 people i think of that 'run' thelist(me, matt, michele,
> dean) aren't on admin at lists

that's news to me... i thought matt and dean were, and michele
resigned admin a while back (which is why i never understood why
she kept her list admin privs)...

so, given that new knowledge, i have to cc three people on my
posts to the list *moderators*, then, right?

> and how does the whole 'self moderating' thing play into this?

what whole self-moderating?  we've moderated in the past, but not
overtly on thelist so much... my moderation was offlist, and done
because of a clear violation of *all* (but one) of thelist guidelines...
that and self-moderation clearly had failed in that thread...

we have the guidelines for a reasons, and if we don't address
transgressions, there is no moderation, self or otherwise...

do you feel that we don't have the right to do this?  i've always told
people offlist to trim, and nobody's raised an issue -- it's really the
same thing... break a rule over and over, and an admin/moderator
will chat with you offlist about it...

> i only ask these questions to clear up the confusion.

i dig... and if you think i'm missing your questions, lemme know...

> here's a good example of confusion: i got an email from someone on
> thelist who thought it was unfair that martin contacted the person
> offlist as the 'moderator'. after all, in that case, how could martin
> be objective in dealing with the situation?

he didn't, though... but i see your point... which is why i cc'd
admin...  so, there were two flawed assumptions here:

- somebody assumed martin contacted this guy...
- i assumed you still read the admin archives...

given that knowledge, i see your point... however, i'm not doing
anything differently than i've ever done it... granted, you're not on
admin, but you had said you read the archives, so i figgered you'd
see it in your daily trolling... (not troll as in for flames)

> as it turns out, they'd at some point in their
> time on thelist gotten an email from martin asking them to trim or
> something similar, signed with an 'on behalf of evolt.org', and
> thought that he was the person in charge of thelist. thats just an
> example from today that i happened to find out about. i'm sure there
> are other people who may be equally confused.

there are, which is why there are no less than 30 people who think
i am a list admin, and another hundred+ who think i'm a
moderator... but again, the "on behalf of evolt.org" has been
standard for a very long time, now...

> *so* to get to my original prob, which i think is being takn out of
> proportion(i'm cranky this early), there are lots of new people on
> thelist lately, and if they see this as a place where (more or less)
> anyone can moderate, there's no respect for the rules. so, when i send

well, if it's self-moderating, as you suggest, then you've got just
that right now... in a self-moderating environment, *anyone* can
moderate...

> out an email to everyone basically saying, "Hey calm down, trim your
> posts, read the archives" as i've done in the past when thelist gets
> noisy, people look at me and say, "wtf is this guy, and why should i
> listen?" add in the fact that i've gotten shit for signing my emails
> in a funny way so that people know someone is 'thelist admin', and
> well... thats a different story.

i've been down that road, too, so i know where you're coming from...

but i still try to be a quiet moderator and only bug people offlist for
regular infractions... and when i do, i sign 'on behalf of evolt.org' or
'one of the evolt.org admins' or something like that...

we might consider including a link to the FAQ page on the site...

> anyways, don't take the above as more than it is or anything

i know... it's all good...

> > archives regularly...  in the future, i will cc you, although that
> > seems like a silly and unnecessary step (might have to do with my
> > bitterness about recent client hoops)....
>
> i don't wanna make you jump through hoops man, you know how much i
> hate doing it too..

suggestion, then -- alias...

listadmin at evolt.org (or whatever) should go to:
- dean
- matt
- michele
- dan
- admin@

yeah, it's another address, but it's one address...  dunno if it's
ideal, but it's a thought...

> > > i'm not on that list. i rarely edit articles and log into the
> > > admin.evolt.org/email section once a day to see if can answer
> > > things questions people have submitted through the contact form.
> >
> > you no longer visit the admin archives, huh?
>
> not unless someone fwd's me a URL or post that needs attention, no.
> like i said, i don't edit much, and all the email is documented on
> a.e.o

gotcha...

well, do you have any issues with me, or others on admin@,
continuing to act as moderators (following the precedent of how
we've always done it)?  not like if you say "yes" i'm going to stop,
but i still want to make sure you're cool with it...

i'm still not planning on cc'ing you on 'trim posts' comments, and i
do cc you on the ones you need to address (like yesterday), but i'll
try to keep you in mind for the ones that may cause more ruckus...
i may forget -- it's not intentional...

> > > fwiw, i'm not disputing adrians email wording or anything.
> >
> > that's good...  right?
>
> right, just like joel said.

i like joel.

can we keep him?