From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Sep  7 00:13:59 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 01:13:59 -0400
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
Message-ID: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>

Hi all,

Regarding our finances at present, I just transferred another $300 from 
our nest egg (the pile of donations in our Paypal account) into our bank 
account, to cover the next two months' hosting charges.  And the pile is 
getting smaller -- the Paypal balance is now $755.  If we continue to 
run two servers with the trickle of revenue we're now getting from the 
Google ad on beo, we'll run out of money in like 8 months (so like May 
2010).

In short, evolt has all of the of the two types of cash flow problems: 
expenses that are too high, and revenue that is too low.

Fortunately, on the expense side, all we need to do is get off our butts 
and move weo, leo and beo (www., lists. and browsers.evolt.org) from 
tempest, the old server, onto tron, the new one, in order to finally 
decommission the older and more expensive tempest box, and so lower our 
monthly costs by more than half:

   tempest is $69/month
   tron    is $45/month

(tron is also newer, and has twice the storage)

On the revenue side though, there's good news and bad news.  The bad 
news is that we still are not earning enough from the Google ad, like we 
did for several years, to cover even one server.  Not even enough to 
cover tron, the new, lower cost server.  This year so far we're seeing 
just $28 a month on average from Google, instead of the $100+ a month we 
saw like clockwork, from 2004 to 2007.

The good news, though, is that the news is not all bad:  In addition to 
Google, we also have a bit of recurring donation revenue that would keep 
us just slightly, theoretically in the black once we have just the one 
server to pay for.  But that's assuming the $28/month average of ad 
revenue from Google does not decrease further, and that the generous 
monthly donors don't become unemployment statistics and cancel their 
subscriptions.

So, I'd like to everyone thinks about adding another unobtrusive Google 
ad, this time to the mailing list archives.  There's plenty of *room* on 
these pages, so the ad could actually *be* very unobtrusive, for example:

   http://lists.evolt.org/archive/
   http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20090831/thread.html

And, since the mailing list archives get about 4 times the traffic that 
beo does, (and assuming that traffic translates to revenue) that could 
give us the extra cushion of income we need for the future.

-dave, ducking and hoping the flames don't burn his ass *too* much...











From eduardok at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 10:17:31 2009
From: eduardok at gmail.com (Eduardo Kienetz)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:17:31 -0300
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:13 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Regarding our finances at present, I just transferred another $300 from
> our nest egg (the pile of donations in our Paypal account) into our bank
> account, to cover the next two months' hosting charges. ?And the pile is
> getting smaller -- the Paypal balance is now $755. ?If we continue to
> run two servers with the trickle of revenue we're now getting from the
> Google ad on beo, we'll run out of money in like 8 months (so like May
> 2010).
>
> In short, evolt has all of the of the two types of cash flow problems:
> expenses that are too high, and revenue that is too low.
>
> Fortunately, on the expense side, all we need to do is get off our butts
> and move weo, leo and beo (www., lists. and browsers.evolt.org) from
> tempest, the old server, onto tron, the new one

What's preventing us from moving weo, leo, beo?
Sep. 15th I should be back to Canada so latency shouldn't be a problem
for me to help on that if it's labor what we need :)

Please let me know.

-- 
Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz

From dean.mah at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 11:20:44 2009
From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:20:44 -0600
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>

On 2009-09-07, at 9:17 AM, Eduardo Kienetz <eduardok at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:13 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com>  
> wrote:
>>
>> Fortunately, on the expense side, all we need to do is get off our  
>> butts
>> and move weo, leo and beo (www., lists. and browsers.evolt.org) from
>> tempest, the old server, onto tron, the new one
>
> What's preventing us from moving weo, leo, beo?
> Sep. 15th I should be back to Canada so latency shouldn't be a problem
> for me to help on that if it's labor what we need :)

A couple considerations for w.e.o:

1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a  
session problem.

2) The evolt.org theme does not work on versions of Drupal > 4.

This means that we cannot move the w.e.o without someone getting  
Drupal 4.6.1 working and we cannot upgrade to a newer version without  
a theme. As well there was a major database change between 4.6 and 4.7  
which makes the data migration more painful than it normally would be.

What would be nice is if someone could come up with a working Drupal 6  
or 7 theme.

l.e.o can be moved. The only major hurdle is to merge the archives and  
mbox files from when the lists were running on tempest and tron.

There is also the problem of babysitting switchover. Last time I use  
netcat to redirect the smtp port traffic on tempest to tron. This  
worked for the most part while DNS was being updated with the  
exception that all of the spamer traffic would freeze inetd and lock  
up the port. We do it the same way with someone watching or we do it  
another way.  Using nc allowed everything on tron to look as if smtp  
client connection was direct to the server. Other methods may affect  
mailman and/or the archive.

I probably won't have dedicated time to work on these problems until  
middle of Sep or early Oct.

Dean

From dean.mah at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 11:20:44 2009
From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:20:44 -0600
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>

On 2009-09-07, at 9:17 AM, Eduardo Kienetz <eduardok at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:13 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com>  
> wrote:
>>
>> Fortunately, on the expense side, all we need to do is get off our  
>> butts
>> and move weo, leo and beo (www., lists. and browsers.evolt.org) from
>> tempest, the old server, onto tron, the new one
>
> What's preventing us from moving weo, leo, beo?
> Sep. 15th I should be back to Canada so latency shouldn't be a problem
> for me to help on that if it's labor what we need :)

A couple considerations for w.e.o:

1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a  
session problem.

2) The evolt.org theme does not work on versions of Drupal > 4.

This means that we cannot move the w.e.o without someone getting  
Drupal 4.6.1 working and we cannot upgrade to a newer version without  
a theme. As well there was a major database change between 4.6 and 4.7  
which makes the data migration more painful than it normally would be.

What would be nice is if someone could come up with a working Drupal 6  
or 7 theme.

l.e.o can be moved. The only major hurdle is to merge the archives and  
mbox files from when the lists were running on tempest and tron.

There is also the problem of babysitting switchover. Last time I use  
netcat to redirect the smtp port traffic on tempest to tron. This  
worked for the most part while DNS was being updated with the  
exception that all of the spamer traffic would freeze inetd and lock  
up the port. We do it the same way with someone watching or we do it  
another way.  Using nc allowed everything on tron to look as if smtp  
client connection was direct to the server. Other methods may affect  
mailman and/or the archive.

I probably won't have dedicated time to work on these problems until  
middle of Sep or early Oct.

Dean

From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Sep  7 12:53:18 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:53:18 -0400
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>

Hi Dean,

Dean Mah wrote:
> 
> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a  
> session problem.

Yes because we're running PHP 5:

   according to this page:
   http://drupal.org/node/222203

we should be able to upgrade to the last 4.x release, (4.7.11 which 
supposedly fixes the php5 compatibility issues) and run the site as-is 
on tron.

> 2) The evolt.org theme does not work on versions of Drupal > 4.
 > This means that we cannot move the w.e.o without someone getting
 > Drupal 4.6.1 working and we cannot upgrade to a newer version without
 > a theme. As well there was a major database change between 4.6 and 4.7
 > which makes the data migration more painful than it normally would be.

I'll tackle getting the exiting site migrated to tron on Drupal 4.7.11 
temporarily (if I have to compile a stand-alone apache 1.3x and PHP 4 
module for it!) to buy us some time.

I Definitely Do Not want any the completion of any Drupal theme 
development blocking the migration this time.  Then, once we have the 
site as is, on tron, we'll have the breathing room necessary to (dare 
we?) setup proper dev environments, test new themes and stage upgrades 
to Drupal 5, 6 and & 7 :-)

> l.e.o can be moved. The only major hurdle is to merge the archives and  
> mbox files from when the lists were running on tempest and tron.
> 
> There is also the problem of babysitting switchover. Last time I use  
> netcat to redirect the smtp port traffic on tempest to tron
 >
> I probably won't have dedicated time to work on these problems until  
> middle of Sep or early Oct.

No problem.  We have a couple of months right now before we have dip 
into the cookie jar again :-)

So, if I tackle weo, you handle leo and William moves beo (he posted 
recently he will soon), then we are on our way to being able to jettison 
tempest into deep space and nuke it. </another Silent Running reference>

-dave

From ekm at seastorm.com  Mon Sep  7 14:13:23 2009
From: ekm at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:13:23 -0700
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
	<4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <8186dea60909071213u58e28a8enb0a0f5ee8f06c866@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on adding a google ad to the list archives.

and, +1 getting down to one server.  I would like to help however I can.

Erika

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:53 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com> wrote:
> Hi Dean,
>
> Dean Mah wrote:
>>
>> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron. ?There is a
>> session problem.
>
> Yes because we're running PHP 5:
>
> ? according to this page:
> ? http://drupal.org/node/222203
>
> we should be able to upgrade to the last 4.x release, (4.7.11 which
> supposedly fixes the php5 compatibility issues) and run the site as-is
> on tron.
>
>> 2) The evolt.org theme does not work on versions of Drupal > 4.
> ?> This means that we cannot move the w.e.o without someone getting
> ?> Drupal 4.6.1 working and we cannot upgrade to a newer version without
> ?> a theme. As well there was a major database change between 4.6 and 4.7
> ?> which makes the data migration more painful than it normally would be.
>
> I'll tackle getting the exiting site migrated to tron on Drupal 4.7.11
> temporarily (if I have to compile a stand-alone apache 1.3x and PHP 4
> module for it!) to buy us some time.
>
> I Definitely Do Not want any the completion of any Drupal theme
> development blocking the migration this time. ?Then, once we have the
> site as is, on tron, we'll have the breathing room necessary to (dare
> we?) setup proper dev environments, test new themes and stage upgrades
> to Drupal 5, 6 and & 7 :-)
>
>> l.e.o can be moved. The only major hurdle is to merge the archives and
>> mbox files from when the lists were running on tempest and tron.
>>
>> There is also the problem of babysitting switchover. Last time I use
>> netcat to redirect the smtp port traffic on tempest to tron
> ?>
>> I probably won't have dedicated time to work on these problems until
>> middle of Sep or early Oct.
>
> No problem. ?We have a couple of months right now before we have dip
> into the cookie jar again :-)
>
> So, if I tackle weo, you handle leo and William moves beo (he posted
> recently he will soon), then we are on our way to being able to jettison
> tempest into deep space and nuke it. </another Silent Running reference>
>
> -dave
> --
> TheForum Archives: http://lists.evolt.org/theforumarchive/
>
> evolt.org wiki: http://wiki.evolt.org/
> teamwork site: http://evolt.teamworkpm.net/
>

From david at gigawatt.com  Mon Sep  7 19:56:09 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:56:09 -0400
Subject: [theforum] weo migration (was: Re:  Financial situation)
In-Reply-To: <FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>

Hi Dean,

Dean Mah wrote:
> 
> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a  
> session problem.

What was the specific issue, login problems?  Is it difficult to 
reproduce?  I'm doing some testing now.

Thanks,

-dave

From dean.mah at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 20:57:29 2009
From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:57:29 -0600
Subject: [theforum] weo migration (was: Re:  Financial situation)
In-Reply-To: <4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
	<4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <78856289-6635-4F59-A32A-2F94938C862E@gmail.com>

Login and then go to any page. Check to see if you are still logged in.

Dean

Sent from my iPhone

On 2009-09-07, at 6:56 PM, David Kaufman <david at gigawatt.com> wrote:

> Hi Dean,
>
> Dean Mah wrote:
>>
>> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a
>> session problem.
>
> What was the specific issue, login problems?  Is it difficult to
> reproduce?  I'm doing some testing now.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -dave
> --
> TheForum Archives: http://lists.evolt.org/theforumarchive/
>
> evolt.org wiki: http://wiki.evolt.org/
> teamwork site: http://evolt.teamworkpm.net/

From evolt at roselli.org  Tue Sep  8 10:19:57 2009
From: evolt at roselli.org (aardvark)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:19:57 -0400
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <8186dea60909071213u58e28a8enb0a0f5ee8f06c866@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>

i +1 the google ad...

do i even get to vote anymore...?

On 7 Sep 2009 at 12:13, Erika Meyer wrote:

> +1 on adding a google ad to the list archives.
> 
> and, +1 getting down to one server.  I would like to help however I can.
> 
> Erika



From evolt at roselli.org  Tue Sep  8 10:34:10 2009
From: evolt at roselli.org (aardvark)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:34:10 -0400
Subject: [theforum] new article, process?
Message-ID: <4AA64132.6446.B94C47@localhost>

guys, i don't want to jack up the process, and i have no idea what 
the publishing process is...

i just submitted an article, and i want to publish it, but i don't 
want to just do it without going through some process... and given my 
absence, it seems unfair of me to just assume i can publish it myself 
anyway...

help?



From david at gigawatt.com  Tue Sep  8 10:38:31 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:38:31 -0400
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>
References: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com> <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>
Message-ID: <4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>

aardvark wrote:
> i +1 the google ad...
> 
> do i even get to vote anymore...?

As the contributor of the 66.6% of the new content on the site this 
year, I reckon you get a vote :-)

Hell, anyone still reading theForum who has an opinion gets a vote!

-dave

From rjmolesa at consoltec.net  Tue Sep  8 12:53:22 2009
From: rjmolesa at consoltec.net (Jon Molesa)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:53:22 -0400
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com> <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>
	<4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <20090908175322.GN8015@jenna.rjmolesa.homelinux.net>

In that case...

+1 on the goole ads

And I have time in which I could help with any of the migration.
-- 
Jon Molesa
GPG ID: DAA35239
Owner - Consoltec
rjmolesa at consoltec.net
http://www.consoltec.net

From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Tue Sep  8 13:18:30 2009
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:18:30 +0000
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com> <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>
	<4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <6C571521FE9E4348AA16498E72C483BB1707FAD5BF@GVW0671EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net>

>>Hell, anyone still reading theForum who has an opinion gets a vote!

Thanks Dave!


+1 from me as well.

... and continued thanks for staying on top of this and for continuing to keep us all informed!


Gracias,
RonL.




From david at gigawatt.com  Wed Sep  9 08:28:41 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:28:41 -0400
Subject: [theforum] weo migration
In-Reply-To: <78856289-6635-4F59-A32A-2F94938C862E@gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>	<4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>
	<78856289-6635-4F59-A32A-2F94938C862E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA7AD89.8090702@gigawatt.com>

Dean wrote:
> David wrote:
>> Dean wrote:
>>> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron.  There is a
>>> session problem.
>> What was the specific issue, login problems?  Is it difficult to
>> reproduce?  I'm doing some testing now.
 > Login and then go to any page. Check to see if you are still logged
 > in.

Ok, so that was an easy bug to reproduce :-)

So I have the old weo and old drupal running (with the session bug in 
full bloom) and I have a test environment of sorts (i created a tempest 
user on tron -- is that confusing enough?) and scripts to

1) pull fresh copies of htdocs and database from production, and

2) revert my dev site to the latest copy of production (fixing up things 
like permissions the db_url in settings.php and such)

and now I need to develop either:

a) a script that performs the steps to upgrade drupal to the latest 4.x 
that works with php 5, or

b) compile custom apache 1.3x and php4 binaries and reconfigure the 
virtual host to use them, so it is usable

If a is going to work, I have to get around this session bug first, 
which you mentioned was frustrating.  Since I can't login I can't do the 
recommended pre-upgrade steps such as disabling plugins and reverting to 
the default theme first.

I wonder if I should try doing this upgrade step (from 1.6.1 to 1.7.11) 
on a dev copy on tempest first (where drupal + php works) then sync that 
over to tempest... I'll try that next.  Friday morning probably -- need 
at least one night of sleep this week :-)

-dave, just scrawling notes on the wall...

From sarahwbs at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 09:33:12 2009
From: sarahwbs at gmail.com (Sarah Adams)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:33:12 -0300
Subject: [theforum] broken link on evolt.org
Message-ID: <4AA7BCA8.6090401@gmail.com>

Hey, guys,

Just an FYI that the link to this article appears to be broken:
http://evolt.org/Google-Chrome-Turns-1
Got it through Bloglines, but it's also listed on the evolt home page.

Good to see some new content on the site!

Sarah

p.s. I'm not subscribed to this list anymore, so if you want to reply to
me, make sure to CC me.

-- 
sarah adams
web developer & programmer
http://sarah.designshift.com

From dean.mah at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 11:44:57 2009
From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:44:57 -0600
Subject: [theforum] broken link on evolt.org
In-Reply-To: <4AA7BCA8.6090401@gmail.com>
References: <4AA7BCA8.6090401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f4a098c50909090944l1ddd1753o48b81f04a294590e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Sarah Adams<sarahwbs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, guys,
>
> Just an FYI that the link to this article appears to be broken:
> http://evolt.org/Google-Chrome-Turns-1
> Got it through Bloglines, but it's also listed on the evolt home page.
>
> Good to see some new content on the site!
>
> Sarah
>
> p.s. I'm not subscribed to this list anymore, so if you want to reply to
> me, make sure to CC me.

The link seems to be working for me.  Does any one else have a problem
with the URL above?

Dean

From dean.mah at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 11:42:34 2009
From: dean.mah at gmail.com (Dean Mah)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:42:34 -0600
Subject: [theforum] weo migration
In-Reply-To: <4AA7AD89.8090702@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
	<4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>
	<78856289-6635-4F59-A32A-2F94938C862E@gmail.com>
	<4AA7AD89.8090702@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <f4a098c50909090942t40ecb5f5x4a1b7568c67c8b6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:28 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com> wrote:
> Dean wrote:
>> David wrote:
>>> Dean wrote:
>>>> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron. ?There is a
>>>> session problem.
>>> What was the specific issue, login problems? ?Is it difficult to
>>> reproduce? ?I'm doing some testing now.
> ?> Login and then go to any page. Check to see if you are still logged
> ?> in.
>
> Ok, so that was an easy bug to reproduce :-)
>
> So I have the old weo and old drupal running (with the session bug in
> full bloom) and I have a test environment of sorts (i created a tempest
> user on tron -- is that confusing enough?) and scripts to
>
> 1) pull fresh copies of htdocs and database from production, and
>
> 2) revert my dev site to the latest copy of production (fixing up things
> like permissions the db_url in settings.php and such)
>
> and now I need to develop either:
>
> a) a script that performs the steps to upgrade drupal to the latest 4.x
> that works with php 5, or
>
> b) compile custom apache 1.3x and php4 binaries and reconfigure the
> virtual host to use them, so it is usable
>
> If a is going to work, I have to get around this session bug first,
> which you mentioned was frustrating. ?Since I can't login I can't do the
> recommended pre-upgrade steps such as disabling plugins and reverting to
> the default theme first.
>
> I wonder if I should try doing this upgrade step (from 1.6.1 to 1.7.11)
> on a dev copy on tempest first (where drupal + php works) then sync that
> over to tempest... I'll try that next. ?Friday morning probably -- need
> at least one night of sleep this week :-)

In my experience, you don't need to be able to login to do the
upgrade.  There is a variable in the update.php file that you can set
to remove the requirement to login.  If memory serves, you don't need
to return to the default theme.  At least not when you are going from
4.6.3 -> 4.7.

For the session bug, I had a similar problem with limesurvey.  I used
LiveHTTPHeaders to see the cookies that were being sent back and forth
and noticed an inconsistency after a session_regenerate_id in the code
where the new session id was not being passed.  I was going to start
looking there for the problem in the Drupal code.

Dean

From eduardok at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 13:35:23 2009
From: eduardok at gmail.com (Eduardo Kienetz)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:35:23 -0300
Subject: [theforum] broken link on evolt.org
In-Reply-To: <f4a098c50909090944l1ddd1753o48b81f04a294590e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA7BCA8.6090401@gmail.com>
	<f4a098c50909090944l1ddd1753o48b81f04a294590e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e7d042a0909091135q611b23d8t3efc9597c8f9c8ea@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Dean Mah<dean.mah at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Sarah Adams<sarahwbs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey, guys,
>>
>> Just an FYI that the link to this article appears to be broken:
>> http://evolt.org/Google-Chrome-Turns-1
>> Got it through Bloglines, but it's also listed on the evolt home page.
>>
>> Good to see some new content on the site!
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> p.s. I'm not subscribed to this list anymore, so if you want to reply to
>> me, make sure to CC me.
>
> The link seems to be working for me. ?Does any one else have a problem
> with the URL above?

Negative, fine here.

-- 
Eduardo Bacchi Kienetz

From evolt at roselli.org  Wed Sep  9 15:24:59 2009
From: evolt at roselli.org (aardvark)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:24:59 -0400
Subject: [theforum] broken link on evolt.org
In-Reply-To: <3e7d042a0909091135q611b23d8t3efc9597c8f9c8ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f4a098c50909090944l1ddd1753o48b81f04a294590e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA7D6DB.6134.1FA4808@localhost>

On 9 Sep 2009 at 15:35, Eduardo Kienetz wrote:
[...]
> >> http://evolt.org/Google-Chrome-Turns-1
> >
> > The link seems to be working for me. ?Does any one else have a problem
> > with the URL above?
> 
> Negative, fine here.

ditto, came right up for me...



From john at handelaar.org  Wed Sep  9 12:19:33 2009
From: john at handelaar.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 18:19:33 +0100
Subject: [theforum] weo migration
In-Reply-To: <f4a098c50909090942t40ecb5f5x4a1b7568c67c8b6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>
	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
	<4AA5ABA9.5090606@gigawatt.com>
	<78856289-6635-4F59-A32A-2F94938C862E@gmail.com>
	<4AA7AD89.8090702@gigawatt.com>
	<f4a098c50909090942t40ecb5f5x4a1b7568c67c8b6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86f32b920909091019p7cf3bbdua2c736026a7d124d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 17:42, Dean Mah <dean.mah at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:28 AM, David Kaufman<david at gigawatt.com> wrote:
>> Dean wrote:
>>> David wrote:
>>>> Dean wrote:
>>>>> 1) Drupal 4.6.1 does not work out of the box on tron. ?There is a
>>>>> session problem.

FWIW, I'm running the same version on my own site with PHP5-fcgi and
no problems.

This particular bug *screams* to me that there's whitespace after a
closing ?> at the end of a file, and since it's our issue I'd look at
the theme files first.  Drupal simply omits them and started doing so
precisely because this keeps happening

jh

From david at gigawatt.com  Wed Sep  9 15:56:16 2009
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:56:16 -0400
Subject: [theforum] broken link on evolt.org
In-Reply-To: <4AA7D6DB.6134.1FA4808@localhost>
References: <f4a098c50909090944l1ddd1753o48b81f04a294590e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA7D6DB.6134.1FA4808@localhost>
Message-ID: <4AA81670.2000307@gigawatt.com>

aardvark wrote:
> On 9 Sep 2009 at 15:35, Eduardo Kienetz wrote:
>>>> http://evolt.org/Google-Chrome-Turns-1
>>> The link seems to be working for me.  Does any one else have a problem
>>> with the URL above?
>> Negative, fine here.
> 
> ditto, came right up for me...
> 

Works for me, as do all the links *in* the article, in case thats what 
she meant...

-dave

From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Sun Sep 13 04:10:54 2009
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:10:54 +0100
Subject: [theforum] sorry for the change in subject line but gmail hates
	me and I just want to get this sent
In-Reply-To: <4AA47C4A.9030803@gigawatt.com>
References: <8186dea60908311421h279ee033p3c08174fb327102d@mail.gmail.com>	<4A9C75A1.5090905@gigawatt.com>
	<8186dea60909011514l19bfd4a5g51bce96cd609a42d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA47C4A.9030803@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <41B250F2-B3A8-4E83-8C8E-690BF0A69D72@easyweb.co.uk>


On 7 Sep 2009, at 04:21, David Kaufman wrote:

> Online communities are all illusions, and are elusive.  The fact that
> we, the stewards of this particular one, come and go, or suffer long  
> and
> chronic bouts of apathy, is no reason to "give up".  The community
> exists and has value as long as anyone is posting web dev problems to
> the List, asking questions or starting a discussion, and someone  
> else is
> replying.


That's one for the framing queue.

Cheers
Martin
--
 > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter
 > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/






From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Sun Sep 13 04:14:40 2009
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:14:40 +0100
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com> <4AA63DDD.2836.AC49B6@localhost>
	<4AA67A77.3030803@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <2817A84A-7741-4320-B1ED-EF457E19F846@easyweb.co.uk>


On 8 Sep 2009, at 16:38, David Kaufman wrote:

> Hell, anyone still reading theForum who has an opinion gets a vote!


Which is and always has been the position.

Cheers
Martin
(oh, and +1 on the google ad, at least until we're on 1 server)

--
 > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter
 > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/






From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Sun Sep 13 04:18:51 2009
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:18:51 +0100
Subject: [theforum] Financial situation
In-Reply-To: <4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>
References: <4AA49697.3020309@gigawatt.com>	<3e7d042a0909070817m2ca5aa45r77ac0839252728f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE43E011-517A-4F8B-85F2-D40B712348A4@gmail.com>
	<4AA5488E.4060908@gigawatt.com>
Message-ID: <524C194F-1EFD-4DFB-824A-008A78F36A6C@easyweb.co.uk>


On 7 Sep 2009, at 18:53, David Kaufman wrote:

> I Definitely Do Not want any the completion of any Drupal theme
> development blocking the migration this time.


Nope, me neither. As @handelaar posited when we were moving *to*  
Drupal and the theme development was taking a while: "Blue Marine it  
is then"

I'd rather shift, upgrade and use a default theme (which are actually  
quite purty  - a lot nicer than BlueMarine!) and then fight out what  
we're doing for a theme.

Cheers
Martin

--
 > Spammers: Send me email -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk to train my filter
 > http://dspam.nuclearelephant.com/