[thechat] Palestinians

Sean German seanmgerman at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 12 14:31:48 CDT 2001


Howdy,

I've heard the range of reactions to these attacks;
none I would characterize as simplistic vengeance.

Fighting terrorism is a matter of defense, not
vengeance.  Don't bomb these vermin until we'll be
hard pressed to find enough DNA to identify the bodies
as a matter of pride, or an-eye-for-an-eye, or any
other emotion.

We need to take a stand against these attacks because
if we do not, the attacks won't stop.  They will get
worse.  History teaches this unequivocally.  Bullies
who are not stopped, only get worse--Hitler, Stalin,
Gates.  Again and again, the same problem, the same
results.  You back down from a bully the attacks get
worse.

Will those that hate us hate us more when we defend
ourselves?  Yup.  Will we win any converts to our way
of thinking with strong response?  Perhaps not.  Bombs
and bullets will not make those that want all Jews
dead think any differently.

BUT the amount of aid non-governmental terrorist
organizations have received from countries--countries
in the UN, amazingly countries trying to paint the US
and Israel as racist--should not be ignored.

I do not expect anything we do will change the minds
of the most extreme zealots.  But I hope our actions
will convince these rogue nations that the risk they
run when supporting terrorists is not worth it.

Right now every local tv channel is still on constant
news.  They are interrupting a story on a possible
bomb in a downtown Boston Hotel to go to a story on a
possible bomb on a train.  Read that again.  They are
breaking in on the breaking news on one bomb to go to
news on another bomb.

I don't want vengeance; I don't want martyrs.  I want
to feel safe.  I want to be able to contact the
placement agency I've been working with (their office
in the Boston stock exchange building--the same
building in which my future wife worked until a few
months ago).  I'd like to not consider myself a member
of an organized religion and raise my children the
same way.  But I will have to tell them their
grandparents are jewish because someone, somewhere
will want them dead because of it.

I may not be able to change the mind of that someone. 
I may not know who that someone is or where they are. 
But I can try to convince others that helping such
someones will bring justice.

Colin Powell is taking about NATO considering a
resolution for an article...You can condemn these
acts, you can talk about vengeance and martyrs all day
long.  But there is a war on.  No matter how we fight
back, in what forms we seek justice or vengeance. 
There is a war on, and I am one of the targets.

As for "guerilla fighters," anyone in England should
be very afraid.  You guys have made a lot of enemies
in your time--India, Ireland, Africa, the
Americas...you're raped land and enslaved peoples all
over the globe.

Any government with an itch to scratch could bring in
some martyrs for hire, provide a safe haven for
training and base of operations, and then publicly
condemn the attack that ensues with a Bart Simpson "I
didn't do it!"

Bin Ladan is one man.  But he can do much with the
resources he has access to.  Do you think he is
wondering the desert with a suitcase of cash?  He has
the assistance of banks and countries, countries that
must be considered as guilty as he is.  At this point
we don't know for sure he was part of the most recent
attacks, but we do know he has been responsible for
previous attacks.

We can only presume our weak responses to past attacks
has only encouraged the terrorists and done nothing to
dissuade their allied countries.  Again, this is a
FACT.  All of history points in one and only one
direction.  Bullies who are tolerated or not
confronted only get worse.  From the schoolyard to the
state house.

Perhaps in the schoolyard you can give in--hand over
your lunch money, avoid the gym locker--sometimes you
can become so passive the bully looses interest. 
However we are not dealing with schoolyard bullies
here.  We are dealing with trained, financed,
organized terrorists that will not stop until either I
and all my family are dead, or they are stopped by
force.

Again, THIS IS NOT VENGEANCE.  Anyone who wants to try
to convince me I am wrong, that bullies change of
their own accord, is welcome to try.

With all due respect Martin, find some folks who were
around when the bombs were falling on England.  Ask
them if they had vengeance in their hearts, or
survival.  Well, the bombs are falling on my home.

Hay, I am not a right-wing genocidal nut.  I am not a
left-wing extremist.  I decry police brutality
whenever I can (which is almost daily; it seems most
US police forces rank with the Nazis in racism).  I
smoke pot, and I vote.  I don't want all arabs dead. 
And I know freedom comes with risks and
responsibilities.  I know I will never be 100% safe. 
A lone nut can hijack a place and crash it into a
building.  A laid-off worker can shot up an office. 
Heck, there could be one last piece of SkyLab up there
with my name it.

But to respond to the world by throwing up your
hands--you only get safety by sacrificing liberty, any
response will just make martyrs, two wrongs don't make
a right, a forceful response is just simplistic
vengeance--I do not accept.  I choose life.  I choose
to engage the world around me.  I choose to face
challenges.  I choose to believe there is right and
wrong.  There are absolutes.  There is justice.

Cheers,

Sean G.




Post:  I got a little OT from the attacks on the US of
A to the general fight for the extinction of all jews,
but terrorist attacks on the US and our citizens over
seas are generally attributed to our alliance with and
support of Israel.


--- Martin <martin at members.evolt.org> wrote:
> Sean German wrote on 12/9/01 6:28 pm
> 
> >Appeasement
> >didn't work with Hitler; it won't work now.
> 
> However, simplistic vengence is even less effective
> because it creates martyrs, particularly against
> guerilla fighters (rather than the official actions
> of a nation).
> 


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