[thechat] Justice, was Chomsky, was Michael Moore's message

[Erika Meyer]

>A US global policy of laissez-faire wouldn't do shit. It would be a
>green light.

Sure.  Laissez-faire is not what I meant at all.

>  > Certain pundits have suggested that the best way to defeat terrorism
>>  in places like Afghanistan would be to help rebuild that broken-down
>>  country, so that the support for terrorists is weakened.
>
>Are you in accord with this? Stop the hand waving and the emotion
>spewing and be concrete.

Emotion spewing?

I think the idea is worth looking at.

The US does offer Afghanistan humanitarian aid, but as I understand, 
there are also sanctions in place. We support the Taliban in their 
efforts to wipe out opium poppies... but at what cost?

In addition to offering humanitarian aid, there would be an effort to 
remove those actively engaged in warlike efforts--or to take away 
their power. This would be a worldwide effort, and I do believe that 
the US could (and is) recruiting the help of other countries.

I have to say I don't know enough about how these groups operate to 
give instructions on how to do that.  ;-)

I have to add that I have a level of hesitancy using the word 
"terrorist."  I understand that last weeks attacks were designed to 
create terror, but the word "terrorist" has been bandied about a lot 
within US society, to discredit certain activists, for example, the 
pacifist Judi Bari.

150 years ago, any American Indian that refused to move to a 
reservation was labeled a "hostile."  The label helped dehumanize. 
Dehumanization makes it easier to kill.  So I regard labels with 
suspicion.

>So we rebuild it, by supporting which side? --and pissing off which
>side? Do we make friends of today's terrorists only to breed new ones
>tomorrow? How do you help a country in severe civil disarray without
>making enemies?
>
>>
>>  I think many many paths could be explored.  But this would take time,
>
>Name them.

Not an expert, but since you ask:

- US offers humanitarian assistance for the people of Afghanistan
- US stops selling weapons to other nations or groups.  period.
- US resumes assistance in Israel/Palestine negotiations... but only 
if we are able to make a concerted effort to remain unbiased
- US closes the school of Americas where our tax dollars train terrorists.
- US finds a way to allow Iraq to end economic sanctions, as the 
brunt of the suffering is borne by the people.
- US stops taking a paternalistic stance to poorer nations, resists 
using  manipulative tactics to make them behave as we desire.
- US takes a chill on the global "war on drugs"
- US works on the elimination of global poverty, or at least finds 
ways to eliminate its contribution to such.
- US stops the sale of poisonous substances to other nations (we sold 
leaded gasoline and DDT to Third World nations for many years after 
they were made illegal here).
- US stops trying to impose McDonalds, genetically engineered crops, 
and other cultural and economic stuff people don't want on them.
- US stops its relentless pursuit of "progress" and instead supports 
quality of life for all people

(just off the top of my head... I'm sure there are many more.)

This would be in addition to the obvious other stuff: investigating 
and arresting everyone connected with the NYC attacks, and 
prosecuting accordingly.

>  > strategy, a refocusing.  Instead of being a world cop, the US could
>  > be a model of global consciousness, of ethical behavior.
>
><knee jerk>Is it ethical to let the Taliban treat their women so?</knee
>jerk>

Education is the key to stopping the oppression of women, in the US 
and elsewhere.  But those women need to instigate this, and enlist 
the help of other women worldwide.

I am not at all comfortable with charging my government to impose 
cultural standards on another group.  That's colonialism.

That's the philosophy that allowed the US government to kidnap my 
daughter's grandfather and imprison him in a boarding school where 
they attempted to brainwash the "Indian" out of him and thousands of 
other children like him.

>Please identify action items that we can use to demonstrate this. I want
>nitty-gritty. --I have yet to see any.

I hope the above is good enough for you to get the gist of what I was 
thinking of.

>  > But the fact is that the US is not willing to be honest with itself.
>
>Thanks, but I'm not asking for more rhetoric.

Is rhetoric a bad thing?

>  > What goes around comes around.
>
>So we had it coming?

http://www.macnet.or.jp/pa/akira/disco/lyrics/somuch.html

But actually, I wasn't talking about the past,
but about the present, and the future.

If we could just use our strength and intelligence to help empower 
what is good in the world... what is good for families, for children, 
for the environment, for future generations.  For all, not just a few.

Then they would have no target to strike at.

>  > Paradigm shift is difficult.
>
>Especially when you start with "many many paths" and through some hand
>waving identify only one.
>
>Do you have a list? I really want to know what these other avenues are.
>
>Thanks
>sgd

It sounds corny, but I believe in love.
Powerful love.  Love that overcomes hate.
That kind.

Erika
--