[thechat] [ugh]

[John Handelaar]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thechat-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thechat-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Syed Zeeshan Haider
> Sent: 09 July 2002 19:44
> To: Evolt TheChat
> Subject: Re: [thechat] [ugh]
>
> You don not live in Pakistan. If you had lived here then you'd observe
> that what is the effect of death penalty on crimes.

Yeah.  In the complete absence of media free from government
censorship, and in the complete absence of a recent historical
model of Pakistan-devoid-of-arbitrary-judicial-decisions, it's
easy to see that your point here is in no way completely
unsupported by any evidence. Not.

> Although, many
> so-called Human Rights Organizations

BZZZT.  Human rights organisations are what they are.  You
oppose them, you're opposed to human rights.  No amount of
religious prejudice changes that.

> Earlier there was no death sentence for dacoits and robberers but now
> there is. Observe yourself the decrease in rate of robberies and
> dacoities in Pakistan.

According to every non-governmental source, that decrease
is either zero or negative.  When you allow a miltary coup
to take place unchallenged, people get poorer.  More poor
people + arbitrary mililtary government = no legal means
to escape poverty ---> shitloads more crime.

> The criminals of high degree crimes (rape, murder) commit the crimes in
> two situations:
> 1.    Blind rage and passion for revenge
> 2.    When they think that no law will be applied on them
> Unfortunately, most crimes in Pakistan are the consequences above two
> situations and we are working to exterminate such thoughts

'Exterminate thoughts' ?

That's self-delusion on a scale which no-one here can hope
to counter.  Or (less charitably) religious nonsense.

> > d) the reintroduction of the death penalty in the US
> >    had no discernable effect whatsoever on the murder rate,
> >    and
>
> John, I think you live in USA

Wrong again.

> > e) that countries which abolish the death sentence also
> >    experience no obvious difference in the rate of the
> >    crimes in question.
>
> You do not live in such countries,

Wrong *again*.

This crap was the counter-argument to the abolition to
the death penalty in the UK in 1967.  We did it anyway.
No increase in formerly-capital crime.  But a spectacular
reduction in the number of murders by the state of people
later found to be innocent, invariably convicted not
on evidence but on grounds of being black, Irish or
(most commonly of all) at odds with the oppressive 'morals'
of the common religious zealotry of the day.

> you just read and listen news. The
> news media tell you what they want to.

No.  *Your* media tells you what you're spouting here.  *Mine*
is not subject to root-and-branch government censorship.

> In Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. you
> will not find any narcotics smugglers

You are, of course, joking - or nuts.

> Introduction of death penalty for
> narcotics smuggling in Pakistan has resulted in a firm control and hold
> on such criminals.

Which is why Pakistan is now only the #5 importer of heroin
to the UK, as opposed to its previous peak of #1, I suppose.

Ah, fuck it.  I can't be bothered with the rest of this
nonsense.

One piece of advice:  before you next commit propaganda to
email, please try to back at least one of your many statements
up with at least one piece of evidence.  Otherwise it's just
too easy to skittle everything you write.  I'm waiting
for the meat of your argument, but so far I'm only seeing
the ribbons.


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John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
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