AW: [thechat] King Preaches Abstinence to Parading Maidens

Eike Pierstorff eike.pierstorff at dynamique.de
Sat Sep 14 09:01:01 CDT 2002


> No offence, but this thought is quite secular.

I`m not offended. As a former socialist who converted somewhat unwillingly
to a life as a kind of sales assistent (playing around with computers is
fun, though) I'm a strictly secular human being.

> societies in all ages of time. However, imposing Islam or spreading it by
> oppression is strictly prohibited.

So you say. I guess I could introduce you to some Muslims who would be
likely to kill you for being progressive (and I`m not talking about some Al
Queada Person who perhaps doesn't even exist; I`m talking about some Muslims
who threatend to kill my brother after he commited the crime of marrying
their sister).

Also it is hard to say where oppression starts. I live in Berlin/Germany
which is to my best knowlegde to largest turkish city outside Turkiye, and
most of the turkish people here are Muslims. While most of them are rather
tolerant in religious matters (or at least stick so closely to themselves
that there is no conflict with other religions) there are some Muslims
organizations that try to impose a rather strict version of Islam on other
people. They recruit their members mostly from those called "Almance",
people who are born in Germany as children or grandchildren of turkish
immigrants. Almances often look for a "western" lifestyle, but in most cases
have to find out that they are not being accepted as equals (especially in
these days when Germany has become more and more racist). So they are
susceptible to organzisations that provide not only social acceptance but
also a large infrastructure - Mosques, meeting houses, occasion for
marriage, socials funds et cetera. This would be a nice thing, but there is
a price attached, which is complete devotion to the local bigwig and his
version of Islam, which usally includes hostility against other religions
and the notion that german law is a christian law and should therefore not
be obeyed.
And once you're in there, you don't get out. Unless, that is, you want to be
cut of from all your social connections, be bullied by people who want to
show you the error of your ways or, in some rare cases, want to end up in a
hospital and/or the morgue. I guess you could call that oppression (Of
course, this is an example where Muslims oppress other Muslims, plus it
propably wouldn't happen if Germany wasn't a racist country. I used this
example because here I didn't have to rely on what I read in the papers - I
did some work for the turkish municipality (if that's the right word) some
years ago).

You would probably say that this is not the "real Islam" - and they, in
turn, would call you heretic. That I like your opinions on Islam somewhat
better gives me no clue who is right and who isn't.

Like you, Syed, I'm not from an english speaking background (and the fact
that pidgin english is indeed the most commonly used language in Germany is
more a liability than that it is helpful) so I have the bad feeling that
this message is a bit garbled. If I need to explain anything, please let me
know.

-- eike




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