[thechat] better argument this time

[Madhu Menon]

At 01:07 AM 09-01-03, javier velasco wrote:
>i can also think of those crazy downhill MTB rides i used to do, in such
>situation, you cannot ponder what's your best path, you just have to
>FEEL the surface and how your bike is absorbing it, and let your body
>react in a an primal (animal) form,

Excellent point. I do the same thing in cooking. When I mince garlic in
5-10 seconds, it may seem that I'm not thinking before I make each knife
movement. But you know what? I am. I'm just doing it a) out of habit where
and b) thinking very fast.

(If someone tries to mug me, may the Lord have mercy on him.)

When you start riding the MTB down the hill, were you an expert from day
one? Did you start off just knowing how to react? Probably not. After many
such rides, you're mentally conditioned to act without thinking (or so you
think.) What's happening is that your CPU is just doing a pattern match in
your head to previous experiences and doing some ultra-fast calculations.
If it weren't, you should've been a guru from day one. That you are not
shows that your feeling the surface and riding is a *learned* response.

Got an analog clock in your room right now? Take a look at the time. It
probably took you less than a millisecond to tell the time, right? So would
you say that you told the time without thinking?

Of course not. Think of when you were a kid and someone had to teach you
how to tell time. It was neither "intuitive" nor easy. You had to do a lot
of work in your head to figure it out. In school, we even had exercises in
maths class to tell the time. But after years of doing it, it's second
nature to us.

*That* is my point. It's not "animal", it's a very human thing.

>the moment you start thinking about
>it, and questioning the situation, you're sure to fall down. the less
>you think, the faster you ride. i imagine surfing is similar.

Please don't tell beginner surfers not to think. ;)


>what about capoeira, aard? wouldn't that be another activity where
>rational thought must be left out in favor of some differnt kind of
>process?

OK, I don't know Capoeira, but I know a bit about some other forms. Most of
them focus on making you adept at certain moves by constantly practising
them. It's a learned response. The idea is that when you are in a real-life
situation, you will not think *too long* (note: NOT "not thinking") about
actually moving your hand to punch someone because you've already practised
that a thousand times.

The aim is to cut down your reaction time (which in a fight can mean the
big difference.)
You say it doesn't involve rational thought? On the other hand, it involves
a LOT of rational thought. When Adrian says he'll kick someone in the
gonads and run, there is a good reason for it. He KNOWS it is likely to
incapacitate the attacker. He's not doing it because he likes it (at least
I hope not.)

Why is a martial artist with 10 years of training usually better than
someone with just 1 year of training? Simple, he's better conditioned and
has had much more practice. He thinks *faster* (not "doesn't think")

I'll try and dig up some "official" material on this if you want, Javi.

(BTW, Wesley Snipes is a 5th level Black Belt in Capoeira.)

Regards,

Madhu
(Master of 101 ways to kill people with your bare hands)


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