[thechat] Religious dependance

[aardvark]

> From: "Michele Wandrei" <michele at inthree.com>
>
> I'm usually pretty quiet around here, because my views are very
> different from most I've seen on the chat.   I'm not trying to
> convert you or force my views on you.  I know that we will
> disagree, and that's okay.

no reason to stay quiet... the only way any of us can even begin to
understand the other side of the coin is from someone who's
there... besides, the worst that can happen here is all text
anyway...

> For most of my life, I felt the same way that you do.  Those
> "religious" people were just too much to take.  Far too many
> religious people turn others away from the church -- they can be
> pushy and expect everyone to believe and act as they do.

i think of those people as at least a little overzealous...

> I've come to realize that Christianity is not at all about being
> religious.  It's not about rites, rituals, and laws. It's not
> about being assimilated.  It is about a life transformed by the
> power of God.  That's pretty hard to understand unless you're
> willing to experience it.

it's also hard to understand for a particular kind of mindset... for
people who are used to doing for themselves, who have learned to
question everything, who value logic and reason, those are hard
things to understand...

> He DID write a good program, by using the talents that God gave
> him.   As a Christian, I know that God created me (you may
> disagree) and gave me talents and skills.  If I let Him, He also
> gives me the opportunities to use those talents.  This programmer is
> giving the glory to God in thanks for those talents and in spreading
> the word about his program.

see, therein lies a fundamental difference... i don't believe i was
given talents by a god or he/she grants me opportunities... i think
the talents are just there and opportunities are both random and
created by me... but neither of those views results in a different
outcome for either one of us...

> There are many contradictions in Christianity.  Love your
> enemies?  Not an easy task.  The essence of it is that it's not
> about us.  Life is not all about me.  If I step back and put God
> first in my life and serve others, I actually benefit.  I know
> this probably makes no sense to you at all.  What you see as
> unhealthy dependence is actually what sets us free.  We no longer have
> to rely on ourselves.  Yes, we need to use our gifts and apply
> ourselves and work hard and make wise choices.  We are not just
> blindly following and giving up ourselves.

and here's my take... you have god... you put faith and trust in god,
and in turn god grants you opportunities and even rewards... i just
cut out the middle man... i put faith and trust in me, and give
myself opportunities and rewards... i *prefer* to rely on myself,
except when i do truly need the help of others...

and again, neither of those views results in a different outcome...

> It's easy for most of us to accept and believe in mysticism and
> the supernatural.  We can believe in ghosts, astrology, tarot
> cards, etc.  It's much harder for us to accept the supernatural
> part of Christianity.  But it's only through the supernatural
> power of God that I can love my enemies (and not want to kill
> them!).  God works miracles every day -- after all, my husband is
> still alive!  ;-)  When those miracles take place in our lives, we
> give thanks and praise to God.

well, i don't believe in that mystical stuff, either... i do think there's
plenty out there yet to be explained, but instead of writing it off as
supernatural (christian or otherwise), i'd rather accept that i don't
know, but that in time, perhaps i, or others, can figure it out... we
did it with fire, electricity, diseases, etc... all of which were
previously thought to be magik until rational thought provided
evidence to the contrary...

and i don't believe in miracles... i haven't seen one, and those that
have been cited are nothing more than coincidence framed by the
human mind to have meaning...

> I'm sorry.  I know that you probably see me as a pathetic fanatic as
> well.   I hope that my comments have not offended you.  My beliefs may
> be unpopular, but in the long run I can deal with what you think of
> me.  What my Creator thinks of me is what's important to me.

and that's how you should take it... it's your faith, and as long as
it's only yours and you don't foist it on others, then who cares?
everyone should have his/her own belief system that works for
them, acts as a moral compass, and allows them to constantly
question it and re-evaluate it...

i've got one that works quite well for me, and it doesn't rely on a
god or mysticism...

--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1904151159