[Theforum] Re: [offlist] flash accessibility/usability

aardvark roselli at earthlink.net
Thu Feb 28 21:23:11 CST 2002


> From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at members.evolt.org>
>
> ok, i can see your POV. i guess i just don't think of everyone on
> admin@ as moderators. since day 1, that group was encouraged to set a
> good example and remind people about proper behavior, etc, right? i

was encouraged?  by ourselves, yes... evolt.org has always been a group
effort, started by a group, moderated by a group, and generally a pretty
loosely run group, at that...

that's part of why our moderation has been so... invisible... we have no hard
processes, just precedent from cases where we've done it well...

we all agreed on that early on, so none of this is really new... instead, it's just
popped up because we've needed to be visible a couple times recently...
otherwise, without all the pettiness from a few on thelist, i suspect we
wouldn't even be having this chat...

> think everone on *this* list should also set a 'good example' on
> thelist. and everyone on this list does.

+1

and yeah, this list is moderated, too... admin'ed by me, moderated by
everyone here... although someday i'll meta-moderate, i'm sure...

> as for seeing people like oliver, emily, wolfgang (for example) as
> moderators, i guess i don't. but thats just me. everyone should set a
> good example whether they're on admin@ or not i guess..

that's a whole different case... they're absent from thelist, too... they aren't
moderating, let alone posting...

but we've also had the discussion about disabling admin rights for those who
disappear after, say, 6 months... i still agree with that...

> i guess i just never saw being on admin@ as a prereq. for being a
> person to handle list admin stuff.. we've also had the discussoin
> about who/what an 'admin' is before, so i wn't rehash it

neither did i... until you unsubbed from admin...  at that point, you decided
that admin no longer was about list moderation, which was flawed in principle
because all of admin moderates, and always has...  one guy unsubbing from
[admin] (list admin or not) doesn't change that, and [admin] will remain in the
loop and still be responsible for some of the necessary moderation (which is
what, once this year?  twice?  a record, i believe)...

> i think everyone should set a good example. i think anyone can send
> offlist emails reminding others to trim/whatever, and thats cool. i
> guess i see that more as self moderation. i think we're pretty much
> talking about the same thing

in essence, yes... in this specific case self-moderation failed, however, and i
was asked by a bunch of subscribers to step in as an admin (of evolt.org in
general) and address it...

i did... and i have every right to sign 'on behalf of evolt.org', as does anyone on
[admin]... *assuming* we do it properly...

the only ones not on [admin] with the right to do that ('on behalf of evolt.org')
are you and the other list admins (although this list is to help adjust that as
well) -- but that's not by my choice...  i think it's silly since the rules didn't
change when you or the other list administrators unsubbed... i also think it's
silly that the list admins aren't on the day-to-day [admin] list (it's not just
about the site, despite your assertion)...

but you've repeatedly assured me you read the archives (until today), so i
continue to treat you as being present... i only cc you on stuff that needs
immediate attention, or comes to me personally and not admin...

> > yeah, it's another address, but it's one address...  dunno if it's
> > ideal, but it's a thought...
>
> thats not ideal

neither is adding four cc's in to every one of my list administration requests or
FYI messages...

> like i said, i don't have a prob with anyone sending offlist emails
> and setting good examples.. its part of what makes thelist great. if
> that makes people moderators, rock on. i don't think though that only
> people on admin@ *can* be moderators by that definition, dig?

i agree, which is why we have this list, to open that kind of stuff up... but
since i am a moderator, have been since day one, and am often asked to act
as one by the membership, i'm still gonna follow the rules we all laid out when
we started, until we decide here otherwise...

> > i'm still not planning on cc'ing you on 'trim posts' comments, and i
> > do cc you on the ones you need to address (like yesterday), but i'll
> > try to keep you in mind for the ones that may cause more ruckus... i
> > may forget -- it's not intentional...
>
> no prob. i guess i saw todays message as a bit more than a 'trim
> posts' kinda message from you.

yeah, it was... which is why i cc'd admin...

wow... full circle...

> as for joel, lets flip for it ;)

i think he'd get sick if we kept tossing him in the air...




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