From david at gigawatt.com Mon May 10 09:20:33 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:20:33 -0400 Subject: google adwords: next step (was: Re: [theforum] Re: Welcome to Google AdSense!) References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> so, what steps need to be taken to turn these new google ads on for browsers.evolt.org? we have the AdSense account, and a proposed layout. is a vote necessary to approve his "Skyscaper" (vertical format, right magin) layout for the ads? or can we go ahead an ask the content list to combine the testpage William linked below, with the live AdSense tags i posted, also below? we have a global network of b.e.o mirror sites as well, right? how are updates to the main site coordianted with those servers, is this automated? -dave David Kaufman wrote: > And ...we are now approved, activated an allowed to run google ad > words. > > woohoo! > > William Anderson wrote: >> >> http://browsers.evolt.org/adsensetest.php >> >> it uses the adsense test account, so the clicks don't benefit anyone, >> but they do show what would appear based on the google crawl of the >> page (or site) the ads appear on. I don't know if the new redesign >> plan caters for either banners or skyscrapers, but it's worth >> considering - even just to consider it and maybe discard the idea. > > ok, so here is our adsense tag info: > > > > > > William, can you update that adsensetest.php with the > "google_ad_client" and "google_ad_channel" numbers from the tag above? > > the rest (height, width, color, etc.) should not need to match my > example here, just updated to specify the client and channel values > given and, of course, the removal of that test parameter: > > google_ad_test = 'on'; > > also, i set the example above to use the 160x600 "wide skyscraper" > format instead of the normal one (120x600) just cuz it appears to me > that that's the size of the red "donation header" above it, but feel > free to use whatever sizes, formats and colors look good to you! > > -dave > > > Google AdSense wrote: >> >> Congratulations! >> >> Your Google AdSense application has been approved. You can now >> activate your account and start delivering AdWords ads on your site >> in minutes. >> >> STEP 1: Activate your account. >> Please visit https://www.google.com/adsense?hl=en_US . Log in to your >> account using the email address and password that you submitted with >> your application, and agree to the AdSense Terms and Conditions. >> >> STEP 2: Paste the AdSense ad code into your web pages. >> Just follow the instructions on the "Ad layout code" page to >> copy-and- paste the ad code into your site and begin running AdWords >> ads. >> >> STEP 3: See the results. >> After your ads start running, you can see your earnings at any time >> by checking the online reports in your account. Please note that you >> might not maximize your earnings from AdSense if you have any of the >> following on your website: >> * robots.txt >> * frames >> * forms and dynamic content >> * excessive images >> * login and password requirements >> >> For more technical guidelines and tips on optimizing your site for >> this program, please visit: >> https://www.google.com/adsense/faq-tech?hl=en_US >> >> IMPORTANT NOTES: >> * If Google has not yet crawled your site, you may not be able to see >> relevant ads for a few hours. You may see public service ads (for >> which you will not receive any earnings) displayed in the meantime. >> >> * Website publishers, or a third party enlisted by the publisher, may >> not, manually or through a robot, generate fraudulent clicks (click >> spamming). Clicking on ads on your own site will violate this policy, >> so please do not click on the ads for any reason. We monitor all >> AdSense activity and disable the account of any publisher violating >> this policy. For more information, please review the Google AdSense >> Terms and Conditions at: >> https://www.google.com/adsense/localized-terms?hl=en_US >> >> QUESTIONS? >> Feel free to contact us at adsense-support at google.com at any time. >> (For technical support, please send an email to >> adsense-tech at google.com.) >> >> Welcome to Google AdSense. We look forward to helping you unleash the >> full potential of your website. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Google Team > > --- > evolt.org wiki: http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/ > - > How can you help? > http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/FactFindingMission From neuro at well.com Mon May 10 09:34:45 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:34:45 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: <409F9305.6090201@well.com> David Kaufman wrote: > so, what steps need to be taken to turn these new google ads on for > browsers.evolt.org? we have the AdSense account, and a proposed layout. is > a vote necessary to approve his "Skyscaper" (vertical format, right magin) > layout for the ads? > > or can we go ahead an ask the content list to combine the testpage William > linked below, with the live AdSense tags i posted, also below? I'd do neither until we consider the more salient point - will we use google ads in the new layout? I don't see the point in adding skyscrapers to beo, then taking them away again in a new layout design. It's good that we have the adsense account now, but ... Anyhoo, feel free to ignore me and have a vote on it though :)) It's implementable at any rate, so I'm just making a suggestion, not completely vetoing the idea if the rest of content/theforum decides it's a good call. > we have a global network of b.e.o mirror sites as well, right? how are > updates to the main site coordianted with those servers, is this automated? Somewhat - http://browsers.evolt.org/mirrors.php -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From lach at illuminosity.net Mon May 10 09:34:38 2004 From: lach at illuminosity.net (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:34:38 +1000 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: <409F92FD.7060403@illuminosity.net> David Kaufman wrote: > so, what steps need to be taken to turn these new google ads on for > browsers.evolt.org? we have the AdSense account, and a proposed layout. is > a vote necessary to approve his "Skyscaper" (vertical format, right magin) > layout for the ads? I don't think a vote needs to be taken, since we voted positively on this in the past. I do think content should maybe be asked to produce a paragraph to go with it, explaining why it's there. > we have a global network of b.e.o mirror sites as well, right? how are > updates to the main site coordianted with those servers, is this automated? > > -dave As far as I'm aware, mirror sites just serve the files, they don't present pages to visitors.. visitors visit the evolt browser page, select the file and are handed off to a mirror. Since we're talking about mirrors though, I think it might be a courtesy to inform them we are doing this, and why, since they've volunteered bandwidth. Yada yada, nfp, yada, running costs, yada sustainability, blah blah future expansions, yada, activities blah. -- Lach http://illuminosity.net/ From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com Mon May 10 09:48:58 2004 From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:48:58 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409F9305.6090201@well.com> Message-ID: Neuro_ wrote on 10/05/2004 15:34:45: > David Kaufman wrote: > > so, what steps need to be taken to turn these new google ads on for > > browsers.evolt.org? we have the AdSense account, and a proposed layout. is > > a vote necessary to approve his "Skyscaper" (vertical format, right magin) > > layout for the ads? > > > > or can we go ahead an ask the content list to combine the testpage William > > linked below, with the live AdSense tags i posted, also below? > > I'd do neither until we consider the more salient point - will we use google > ads in the new layout? I don't see the point in adding skyscrapers to beo, > then taking them away again in a new layout design. If the new design were arriving this week (or even this month), then sure. But as that's not the case... let's just do it, eh? > > we have a global network of b.e.o mirror sites as well, right? how are > > updates to the main site coordianted with those servers, is this automated? > > Somewhat - http://browsers.evolt.org/mirrors.php Note that it's the browser installers that are mirrored, not the HTML pages that index them. So the question of adding the ads to mirrors ain't really relevant. Cheers Martin From evolt at nota-bene.org Mon May 10 12:06:40 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:06:40 +0200 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409F9305.6090201@well.com> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> Message-ID: <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> > I'd do neither until we consider the more salient point - will we use > google ads in the new layout? I don't see the point in adding > skyscrapers to beo, then taking them away again in a new layout design. > It's good that we have the adsense account now, but ... > > Anyhoo, feel free to ignore me and have a vote on it though :)) It's > implementable at any rate, so I'm just making a suggestion, not > completely vetoing the idea if the rest of content/theforum decides it's > a good call. I think the pace of things is a bit slow regarding redesign, so I'd vote to put the skyscrapers in the current design and think about integrating it in the next as well. ... which brings me to my next point: since now the lists are going to be reduced, I'm wondering if we should not have project managers designated for this or that item? For instance I kind of feel (maybe I'm wrong since I was not there at the time) that Isaac was a kind of project manager in charge of the design, just like Marlene was PM on finance and 'how can you help evolt' articles way back, and so on. (again, this is a *perception*, maybe I'm deeply mistaken) From my last few months as a somewhat active person at evolt, I feel that there's a lot of lethargy because of a lack of identified tasks and a need for individual persons to answer for said tasks and to define deadlines and the rest. What do you think, people? -- s t e f http://www.nota-bene.org/ From mike.king at redroom.biz Mon May 10 13:47:32 2004 From: mike.king at redroom.biz (Mike King) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:47:32 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> I totally agree that we need people to manage projects like beo adverts and the weo redesign. There must be a number of projects that have died a death because no-one 'owned' them. Personally, I feel that we need someone to drive evolt.org forward. Someone with a vision of what evolt shoud be, and the backing of the rest of the members to get it done, or at least on the way to getting it done. A CEO, if you will. Not permanent, but elected and with some power of choice. I'm only putting this out there because I feel that evolt is dying. I would love to help more, but there's the back-biting, in-fighting, lethargy and general lack-of-decisions-made which has always put me off. There's questions we need to ask ourselves. I belive it will take someone with a leadership role, to take evolt forward: - Are we extinct. Is there a need for an evolt.org in the current working-web world? - Is thelist as good as it used to be? If not, why not? - What projects are evolt.org undertaking and why? - What does a member get when they join evolt.org? - Why should they join evolt? I've got loads of these questions and I'd love to put them to someone, but, somene who's got a bit of drive to ask others to find the answers. It should be a team effort - and we've got a great team - but even teams need managers to keep everything going in the right direction. These are all things that I've been muttering about at beervolts for the past year. I've always been to worried to ask them. Well, now I have. Bring it on! Mike King s t e f wrote: > > > ... which brings me to my next point: since now the lists are going to > be reduced, I'm wondering if we should not have project managers > designated for this or that item? For instance I kind of feel (maybe I'm > wrong since I was not there at the time) that Isaac was a kind of > project manager in charge of the design, just like Marlene was PM on > finance and 'how can you help evolt' articles way back, and so on. > (again, this is a *perception*, maybe I'm deeply mistaken) > > From my last few months as a somewhat active person at evolt, I feel > that there's a lot of lethargy because of a lack of identified tasks and > a need for individual persons to answer for said tasks and to define > deadlines and the rest. > > What do you think, people? > > From neuro at well.com Mon May 10 14:16:21 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:16:21 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> Message-ID: <409FD505.7070906@well.com> Mike King wrote: > I totally agree that we need people to manage projects like beo adverts > and the weo redesign. There must be a number of projects that have died > a death because no-one 'owned' them. True 'dat. > Personally, I feel that we need someone to drive evolt.org forward. > Someone with a vision of what evolt shoud be, and the backing of the > rest of the members to get it done, or at least on the way to getting it > done. A CEO, if you will. Not permanent, but elected and with some power > of choice. A President of the evolt.org? :) > I'm only putting this out there because I feel that evolt is dying. I > would love to help more, but there's the back-biting, in-fighting, > lethargy and general lack-of-decisions-made which has always put me off. I admit some of this has affected my drive to contribute more fully too. You've found a nail sticking outside the box, and you're hammering it right on the head, my fine feathered friend. Yes, i know you don't have feathers, it's just a phrase. Yes, I can see the lack of feathers, Mike, you don't have to do that ... NO, PUT THAT AWAY MIKE! NOW! > There's questions we need to ask ourselves. I belive it will take > someone with a leadership role, to take evolt forward: > > - Are we extinct. Is there a need for an evolt.org in the current > working-web world? Good question. evolt.org as a legacy resource through it's large corpus of articles and list archives is fantastic. As to how relevant it is in today's world, I can't say, as I'm a bit behind the times in the sphere of web design as it is :) > - Is thelist as good as it used to be? If not, why not? I rarely dip into thelist, so not my place to say, but perhaps that's partly the point? At least traffic is still high and mainly ontopic - monkeyjunkies had pretty much died a death even before Lycos pulled the plug on the life support. > - What projects are evolt.org undertaking and why? At the moment they really should be (in no real order): 1) Redesign evolt.org using modern web standards and techniques. 2) Build evolters.org to increase and enhance community tools and communication 3) Rebuild browsers.evolt.org to take greater advantage of the mass of software archived by aardvark and others, and to increase the amount of information held and displayed about each browser. 4) Rebuild the "admin" structure to more easily facilitate future project incubation, operation and completion; to more easily administer existing and future member facilities; to more easily and fairly (if not at present) represent the membership in high- level decision making. > - What does a member get when they join evolt.org? At the moment, they get write access to the community. I think evolters.org will be a nice bonus for members both current and future. > - Why should they join evolt? As I said, they get to contribute, but I suppose if the focus of the community is meandering without guidance, what good does it do if they get to contribute? We need to shake up the community, but more critically we need to shake up the community administration. Let's get off our arses and do something. -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From alan at holographic.f2o.org Mon May 10 14:48:41 2004 From: alan at holographic.f2o.org (Alan Lloyd) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:48:41 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> Message-ID: <001d01c436c7$cd1bcec0$82968551@co.uk> Mike raises some good points. May be that is one of the reasons I have not contributed much over the past year or so. That and too much work. (if there is such a thing) Evolt does seem to be lacking direction. I think (not sure about president but who knows) someone needs to be at the front with the aim of moving Evolt forward.. Just my two cents.. Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: theforum-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:theforum-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mike King > Sent: 10 May 2004 19:48 > To: theforum at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step > > > I totally agree that we need people to manage projects like > beo adverts > and the weo redesign. There must be a number of projects that > have died > a death because no-one 'owned' them. > > Personally, I feel that we need someone to drive evolt.org forward. > Someone with a vision of what evolt shoud be, and the backing of the > rest of the members to get it done, or at least on the way to > getting it > done. A CEO, if you will. Not permanent, but elected and with > some power > of choice. > > I'm only putting this out there because I feel that evolt is dying. I > would love to help more, but there's the back-biting, in-fighting, > lethargy and general lack-of-decisions-made which has always > put me off. > > There's questions we need to ask ourselves. I belive it will take > someone with a leadership role, to take evolt forward: > > - Are we extinct. Is there a need for an evolt.org in the current > working-web world? > - Is thelist as good as it used to be? If not, why not? > - What projects are evolt.org undertaking and why? > - What does a member get when they join evolt.org? > - Why should they join evolt? > > I've got loads of these questions and I'd love to put them to > someone, > but, somene who's got a bit of drive to ask others to find > the answers. > It should be a team effort - and we've got a great team - but > even teams > need managers to keep everything going in the right direction. > > These are all things that I've been muttering about at > beervolts for the > past year. I've always been to worried to ask them. Well, now I have. > > Bring it on! > Mike King > > s t e f wrote: > > > > > > ... which brings me to my next point: since now the lists > are going to > > be reduced, I'm wondering if we should not have project managers > > designated for this or that item? For instance I kind of > feel (maybe I'm > > wrong since I was not there at the time) that Isaac was a kind of > > project manager in charge of the design, just like Marlene > was PM on > > finance and 'how can you help evolt' articles way back, and so on. > > (again, this is a *perception*, maybe I'm deeply mistaken) > > > > From my last few months as a somewhat active person at > evolt, I feel > > that there's a lot of lethargy because of a lack of > identified tasks and > > a need for individual persons to answer for said tasks and > to define > > deadlines and the rest. > > > > What do you think, people? > > > > > > --- > evolt.org wiki: http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/ > - > How can you help? > http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/FactFindingMission > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 07/05/2004 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 07/05/2004 From martin at easyweb.co.uk Mon May 10 15:50:40 2004 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:50:40 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10 May 2004, at 19:47, Mike King wrote: > I totally agree that we need people to manage projects like beo > adverts and the weo redesign. There must be a number of projects that > have died a death because no-one 'owned' them. And, on the other hand, projects that *have* succeeded (beo mirrors, leo/beo/deo move) where someone (or a very small group of people) *have* owned them. > Personally, I feel that we need someone to drive evolt.org forward. > Someone with a vision of what evolt shoud be, and the backing of the > rest of the members to get it done, or at least on the way to getting > it done. A CEO, if you will. Not permanent, but elected and with some > power of choice. I think so. Without at all wanting to sound gripey about it, steering *could* have taken that role if it had chosen to do it... It didn't, so we are where we are. I think the two sides to that suggestion are a great balance - the person in question has the power not as of right, or by 'being here longer', but by being loaned it by the organisation. > There's questions we need to ask ourselves. I belive it will take > someone with a leadership role, to take evolt forward: > > - Are we extinct. Is there a need for an evolt.org in the current > working-web world? And/or is the need the same one as in 1998? At the time, the majority of the issues the web-working population faced were very low-level coding ones - HTML rendering, building everything from scratch with ASP/Perl/whatever because standards were a total joke (ok, not *that* much has changed :-) ) and there were no pre-packaged tools[1] to do many basic web content tasks like workflow, session/authentication management and so on. [1] Unless, maybe, you had $100k+ to splash And looking at thelist, many of the topics are still at that level. Which is fine if you're a junior coder, but doesn't really give members any benefit once they've got past it. I'm sure all of us who've been here a while have had experience with just not getting questions answered, or even not feeling that the higher tool we use isn't being used by anyone else. Kind of a related, personal rant that will I'm sure draw "But Martin, our members don't work for the kind of clients you do" responses. I'm a wee bit fed up with the assumption that evolt members only deal with small clients who think paying over $1000 for a site/system is outrageously expensive. While that may be true for many, the assumption that it's always so is a bit limiting. I'm sure that there are either members who are currently facing the same larger client and/or more expensive software issues I am and they're just hiding, or we're putting them off, when something evolt-like would be useful for them. Example today: I've been beating my head on a brick wall with Kana Marketing Automation: http://www.kana.com/solution/marketingsolution/campauto.aspx and the only place I felt I could go to for support, to ask the basic type of "I'm not being stupid, this *should* work, right?" question, was the vendor. Right, rant over. You can now scourge me for working for large clients at overpriced rates (which i see precious little of). Cheers Martin - -- Now playing on iTunes: "Delilah" by The Sensational Alex Harvey Band from 'Delilah' - a hit from way back in 1975 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFAn+shon5lm40dmVIRAmvHAKClN8Wd3NRyDbYWZ0HROWcd78moxgCgt4uP VwJhOmn6T4CqqNOKwWUMBCM= =SAZj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From evolt at nota-bene.org Mon May 10 15:55:12 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:55:12 +0200 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <001d01c436c7$cd1bcec0$82968551@co.uk> References: <001d01c436c7$cd1bcec0$82968551@co.uk> Message-ID: <409FEC30.4000309@nota-bene.org> > Mike raises some good points. May be that is one of the reasons I have > not contributed much over the past year or so. That and too much work. > (if there is such a thing) > Evolt does seem to be lacking direction. I think (not sure about > president but who knows) someone needs to be at the front with the aim > of moving Evolt forward.. Which brings us back to the beginning of the discussion, and thanks to Mike for having said it better than I did. Hey, when I thought evolt before joining content, I thought Martin, Adrian, Isaac, Rudy, Jeff and a few others -- now the personality seems to have withdrawn. We're all proud to be members of evolt, and at the same time it seems like they did much more than we're doing. What do we do, and how? I really don't know. We have to sleep this through. (I'm going to bed anyway) (or to IRC, can't decide) From david at gigawatt.com Mon May 10 19:22:01 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:22:01 -0400 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com><003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey><002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <00e301c436ed$fab98db0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> s t e f wrote: > > >> I'd do neither until we consider the more salient point - will we use >> google ads in the new layout? I don't see the point in adding >> skyscrapers to beo, then taking them away again in a new layout >> design. It's good that we have the adsense account now, but ... i don't know, the point i see is that adding the google ads is perhaps a five minute copy-and-paste job, per page affected. there is little if anything to debate regarding design decisions, personal tastes, opinions, or aesthetics. and so there is little opportunity for lengthy/endless delays in the design phase. now, a redesign (*any* redesign, of *any* site) has all of those things that can easily slow their launch, and more frequently than not, do. my point is that the point of going forward with ad words now, is that we can set a relatively short rollout schedule for ad words, and *meet* a deadline of, say, a day or three. while i don't know how far along the new layout project is, or how long its final deployment may take, i'm guessing we could be generating some ad revenue in the interim. so why wait? it should be fairly trivial to incorporate the ads into the new layout as well, right? but perhaps that's just the programmer in me speaking. i'm no graphics guru or art director... :-) >> Anyhoo, feel free to ignore me and have a vote on it though :)) It's >> implementable at any rate, so I'm just making a suggestion, not >> completely vetoing the idea if the rest of content/theforum decides >> it's a good call. all in favor of ignoring William and voting anyway, vote: Yes :-) if the vote to vote prevails, then we'll vote. if it fails, we'll wait... er wait -- if we vote to *not* vote than can we ever really vote again, with a clear conscience? perhaps we should only vote to delay voting -- that way, if the vote does pass we can still vote ...just at a delayed later date --eeehh, right? > I think the pace of things is a bit slow regarding redesign, so I'd > vote to put the skyscrapers in the current design and think about > integrating it in the next as well. i'll put that down as one vote from stef ..to vote. no wait, he's voting to *skip* the vote and get right to implementing ads. i vote for that, too. that's two votes to skip one vote and go ahead with action. can i get a "hell, yes!" ? > From my last few months as a somewhat active person at evolt, I feel > that there's a lot of lethargy because of a lack of identified tasks > and a need for individual persons to answer for said tasks and to > define deadlines and the rest. > > What do you think, people? it sounds a lot like the WWWAC list (the World Wide Web Artist's Consortium - www.wwwac.org), another "non-profit-org-built-on-a-mailing-list" community which i tend to haunt. WWWAC has deeper problems than evolt, however. they have evolved around a similar community base: a mix of different types of web developers, grouped roughly into programmer, designer and marketer camps. and WWWAC's problems are similar in that, beyond list traffic, there is little active "involvement" from the membership, many of whom are either disillusioned, displaced and most of whom are now either un-, or under-, employed. much of the list traffic centers around job posts, rumors of who's hiring, and bemoaning the overseas outsourcing trend. it can be tough these days to try to volunteer any of your time to anything, especially in this industry, even if it's a Really Good Cause. evolt is lucky, however. WWWAC has a dues-paying membership, some semi-regular real-world meetings (SIG's, when they actually meet), and has sponsored local conferences, with paid speakers, job fairs and (mostly) "networking events" (think: beervolt). but when apathy runs high, the members get pissed about where their dues are going, how much is spent on beer, etc. their one Real Benefit, health insurance for self employed tech freelancers, became moot a while back when the group providing it, www.workingtoday.org, opened up their enrollment to anyone at all living in the area, regardless of affiliations such as WWWAC membership. so i'm glad that evolt is merely "loosely organized", and can quietly tread water during these "quiet times" since the bubble burst, without losing it's credibility. some on the WWWAC list consistently and stubbornly maintain that trying to become a "real organization" has weakened the community, rather than strengthening it, and suggested that the list should return to being just that, a vibrant and active list. i'm not suggesting that evolt "downsize" or anything, but it's good to remember one's strengths. i don't know if more evolt administrative lists (or fewer) is the answer, just as i don't know whether more (or fewer) of us *administrators* will help evolt be a more "active" org, but i feel in my gut that anyone who steps up should be allowed to take on some responsibility and, the more transparency, the better. the more we can offer to the average evolt "customer" (that vast majority of web workers who're merely scanning theList messages each day) the better. the votes, the politics, the job titles and all the associated red tape seem counter-productive to me, somehow. though i admit i have no ready alternative to suggest, and some things do seem to *beg* for paperwork and procedures, IMO, the less bureaucracy, the better. so i dunno if a "program manager" per se, would help (seems there may be too many titles and unfilled positions already), but it does seem to me that the motivated hero outperforms the committee any day, so maybe if we call them "random champions" and recruit them from theList, rather than from among ourselves here in theForum (as much as i love us to death :-)), then i could get behind the "program manager" concept a bit better :-) anyway, end-of-rant for me, for now. need to go home to wife and kid and kid-on-the-way now :-) -dave From evolt at nota-bene.org Tue May 11 06:58:35 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:58:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <00e301c436ed$fab98db0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com><003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey><002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> <00e301c436ed$fab98db0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: <42184.194.51.20.123.1084276715.squirrel@mail.apinc.org> [admin : sorry if you first got a partial message from me, webmail is not my cup of tea] > it should be fairly trivial to incorporate the ads into the new layout > as well, right? but perhaps that's just the programmer in me speaking. > i'm no graphics guru or art director... :-) +1 for triviality. >> I think the pace of things is a bit slow regarding redesign, so I'd >> vote to put the skyscrapers in the current design and think about >> integrating it in the next as well. > > i'll put that down as one vote from stef ..to vote. no wait, he's > voting to *skip* the vote and get right to implementing ads. i vote for > that, too. that's two votes to skip one vote and go ahead with action. > can i get a "hell, yes!" ? It's a +1 for your demand, yes. HELL YES GO TO ACTION! :) > i don't know if more evolt administrative lists (or fewer) is the > answer, just as i don't know whether more (or fewer) of us > *administrators* will help evolt be a more "active" org, but i feel in > my gut that anyone who steps up should be allowed to take on some > responsibility and, the more transparency, the better. the more we can > offer to the average evolt "customer" (that vast majority of web workers > who're merely scanning theList messages each day) the better. the > votes, the politics, the job titles and all the associated red tape seem > counter-productive to me, somehow. though i admit i have no ready > alternative to suggest, and some things do seem to *beg* for paperwork > and procedures, IMO, the less bureaucracy, the better. I get your point. Which is exactly what you did with cafepress, btw. > so i dunno if a "program manager" per se, would help (seems there may be > too many titles and unfilled positions already), but it does seem to me > that the motivated hero outperforms the committee any day, so maybe if > we call them "random champions" and recruit them from theList, rather > than from among ourselves here in theForum (as much as i love us to > death :-)), then i could get behind the "program manager" concept a bit > better :-) Right. So basically, you say that, for instance, if so-and-so was to wish for a speed-up in redesign, so-and-so should self-appoint himself/herself redesign chairman/PM/whatever and assume the associated task without further ado, and that would be all? Maybe a simple "hey, theforum, you don't mind if I do this-and-that" would do, why not. TOevolt (tara) and cafepress (you) show that there may be something interesting there. -- s t e f http://www.nota-bene.org/ From neuro at well.com Wed May 12 06:41:39 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:41:39 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: Welcome to Google AdSense! In-Reply-To: <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net> <40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> <4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <40A20D73.9030502@well.com> David Kaufman wrote: > And ...we are now approved, activated an allowed to run google ad words. ... and they've been added to http://browsers.evolt.org/ with a piece of explanatory text at http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/#textads -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed May 12 08:20:39 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:20:39 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: google adwords: next step In-Reply-To: <409FD505.7070906@well.com> References: <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <002d01c4369a$01d13d90$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <409F9305.6090201@well.com> <409FB6A0.8090101@nota-bene.org> <409FCE44.3050907@redroom.biz> <409FD505.7070906@well.com> Message-ID: <20040512132038.GB31180@chillibean> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 08:16:21PM +0100, William Anderson wrote: > but more critically we need to shake up the community administration. +100 Whats the status/timeline for the new lists? G. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk & http://spiked.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed May 12 16:25:48 2004 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:25:48 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: Welcome to Google AdSense! In-Reply-To: <40A20D73.9030502@well.com> References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net> <40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> <4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <40A20D73.9030502@well.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12 May 2004, at 12:41, William Anderson wrote: > David Kaufman wrote: >> And ...we are now approved, activated an allowed to run google ad >> words. > > ... and they've been added to http://browsers.evolt.org/ with a piece > of explanatory text at http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/#textads Well, that's $number_of_forum_members - $number_of_fms_adblocking_google_with_firefox views already :-) Cheers martin - -- Now playing on iTunes: "The Impossible Dream" by The Sensational Alex Harvey Band from 'Delilah' - a hit from way back in 1974 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFAopZcon5lm40dmVIRAmzpAJ9jNEhgPdjozX4YhS5EcxM4FjgTzwCgoJmu Nn47YL974Uv3vAUE4nq1lOY= =i0rN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at gigawatt.com Wed May 12 17:38:05 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:38:05 -0400 Subject: [theforum] Re: Welcome to Google AdSense! References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey> <40A20D73.9030502@well.com> Message-ID: <007f01c43871$cab7a770$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> William Anderson wrote: > > David Kaufman wrote: >> And ...we are now approved, activated an allowed to run google ad >> words. > > ... and they've been added to http://browsers.evolt.org/ with a piece > of explanatory text at http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/#textads dude! you rock! you da man! (...insert other youthful expletives of approval here, as well!) -dave From david at gigawatt.com Wed May 12 18:10:06 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:10:06 -0400 Subject: [theforum] Re: Welcome to Google AdSense! References: <409202F8.5010001@illuminosity.net><40929E11.9080001@rixort.com><361257D3-9AEA-11D8-95AC-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk><4092C917.2040407@well.com> <003401c4336c$04e641a0$1401000a@dopey><40A20D73.9030502@well.com> Message-ID: <008001c43876$4477ba10$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Martin Burns wrote: > > On 12 May 2004, at 12:41, William Anderson wrote: > > [google ad words have] been added to http://browsers.evolt.org/ with a > piece of explanatory text at http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/#textads > > Well, that's $number_of_forum_members - > $number_of_fms_adblocking_google_with_firefox views already :-) Actually, as of Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:32pm EST: Page impressions 3,662 Clicks 14 Clickthrough rate 0.4% Your earnings $3.31 !!!!! woo hoo! wow. seems wrong, somehow, doesn't it? three bucks for 14 clicks? $0.23 paid per click? ...there's no friggin way, right? that's a healhy pile of impressions for one day (that isn't even over)...but still. CTR appears to be computed as clicks *per*thousand* impressions, but looks damned respectable to me... i'm scouring the FAQ (https://google.com/adsense/faq#payments), and all it has to say on the subject is that google "doesn't disclose the exact revenue share". and the "Terms and Conditions" agreement (https://google.com/adsense/localized-terms) that i signed -- er: clicked, merely promises that "You shall receive a payment RELATED TO the number of valid clicks" (CAPS emphasis mine). and the blocked ads aren't counted in the impressions. google says in the FAQ (https://google.com/adsense/faq#account2) "We count a page impression when our AdSense JavaScript is actually executed by a user's browser and ads are displayed", so that calculation policy benefits us, actually. the resulting "ad impressions" figure is going to be lower than the number of pages actually served by the webserver, including just the people whose browsers served an ad to them. so for a given number of clicks, the lower # of impressions counted yields a higher clickthrough rate, and apparently the better our clickthrough rate is (plus i'm sure other factors), the higher the rate "per click" google pays. or maybe it has to do with which ads were "content targeted" to our site, and what each advertiser pays google per click.... i dunno odd ducks those googligans, eh? -dave From marlene at looneylabs.com Wed May 12 15:10:24 2004 From: marlene at looneylabs.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:10:24 -0400 Subject: [theforum] Please remove this post on Finance Archives Message-ID: Hi folks, I've received an email from Matt Parker requesting that we remove this post from the finance archives: http://lists.evolt.org/financearchive/2004-March/000332.html Please let me know when it's been removed, and email Matt at the following address as well so he knows it's been removed. mailto:seven at ruguide.com Thanks for prompt attention to this matter. (I'm so tired of this issue...) Also, I'd like to be removed from office as de facto Treasurer, so I'm tending my resignation at this point. It's pointless for me to continue to be listed when I haven't been active in a really long time now. Please remove me from the give at evolt.org email alias. I can remove myself from any lists I'm on. Also, I'd like to take back my PayPal account. Who can take it over? I will be happy to transfer the balance to a qualified recipient. I would like to have this transfer completed by next Monday, May 17th if possible (I'm going out of town early the next morning). Please let me know if you have any questions. No new articles since March? Hope you all are well, and best of luck to you! Thanks bunches, Marlene From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 09:42:01 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:42:01 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> Message-ID: <40A38939.5080703@well.com> William Anderson wrote: > William Anderson wrote: > >> can we have the following addition to the evolt.org domain ... >> >> assets IN A 216.40.227.23 > > > hellooooooo? anyone? Bueller? -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From davidu at everydns.net Thu May 13 09:48:16 2004 From: davidu at everydns.net (David A. Ulevitch) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:48:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <40A38939.5080703@well.com> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> Message-ID: <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> I have the ability to make this change...should I? If "yes" -- then I'll consider myself dns admin for evolt.org from here-on-out and process other DNS requests as they are sent to me. -davidu > William Anderson wrote: > >> William Anderson wrote: >> >>> can we have the following addition to the evolt.org domain ... >>> >>> assets IN A 216.40.227.23 >> >> >> hellooooooo? > > anyone? Bueller? > > -- > _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one > \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him > =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) > U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | > --- > evolt.org wiki: http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/ > - > How can you help? > http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/FactFindingMission > > !DSPAM:40a389f0322751478010750! > > ---------------------------------------------------- David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net Washington University in St. Louis http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net ---------------------------------------------------- From davidu at everydns.net Thu May 13 09:48:16 2004 From: davidu at everydns.net (David A. Ulevitch) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:48:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <40A38939.5080703@well.com> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> Message-ID: <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> I have the ability to make this change...should I? If "yes" -- then I'll consider myself dns admin for evolt.org from here-on-out and process other DNS requests as they are sent to me. -davidu > William Anderson wrote: > >> William Anderson wrote: >> >>> can we have the following addition to the evolt.org domain ... >>> >>> assets IN A 216.40.227.23 >> >> >> hellooooooo? > > anyone? Bueller? > > -- > _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one > \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him > =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) > U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | > --- > evolt.org wiki: http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/ > - > How can you help? > http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/FactFindingMission > > !DSPAM:40a389f0322751478010750! > > ---------------------------------------------------- David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net Washington University in St. Louis http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net ---------------------------------------------------- From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 09:52:12 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:52:12 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> Message-ID: <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> David A. Ulevitch wrote: > I have the ability to make this change...should I? Yes, please do. This has been outstanding for days now - not saying it's your fault, just generally grumbling. > If "yes" -- then I'll consider myself dns admin for evolt.org from > here-on-out and process other DNS requests as they are sent to me. sorted - you da guv'nor! -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From davidu at everydns.net Thu May 13 10:00:51 2004 From: davidu at everydns.net (David A. Ulevitch) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:00:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> Message-ID: <3131.128.252.120.102.1084460451.squirrel@128.252.120.102> > David A. Ulevitch wrote: >> I have the ability to make this change...should I? > > Yes, please do. This has been outstanding for days now - not saying it's > your fault, just generally grumbling. > Maybe it's because I'm not on the right list? I'm on theforum and that's it... Should I be on something else? -davidu ---------------------------------------------------- David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net Washington University in St. Louis http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net ---------------------------------------------------- From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 10:10:59 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:10:59 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <3131.128.252.120.102.1084460451.squirrel@128.252.120.102> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> <3131.128.252.120.102.1084460451.squirrel@128.252.120.102> Message-ID: <40A39003.7040400@well.com> David A. Ulevitch wrote: > [snip] > Maybe it's because I'm not on the right list? > > I'm on theforum and that's it... aaaah, being on sysadmin might be useful :) -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From davidu at everydns.net Thu May 13 10:28:22 2004 From: davidu at everydns.net (David A. Ulevitch) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:28:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <40A39003.7040400@well.com> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> <3131.128.252.120.102.1084460451.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A39003.7040400@well.com> Message-ID: <3388.128.252.120.102.1084462102.squirrel@128.252.120.102> > aaaah, being on sysadmin might be useful :) 1) I subscribed...awaiting moderator approval... 2) I made the DNS changes. -davidu ---------------------------------------------------- David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net Washington University in St. Louis http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net ---------------------------------------------------- From mike.king at redroom.biz Thu May 13 10:32:45 2004 From: mike.king at redroom.biz (Mike King) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:32:45 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: [Sysadmin] dns update In-Reply-To: <3388.128.252.120.102.1084462102.squirrel@128.252.120.102> References: <40A23363.3020708@well.com> <40A33E6A.3060200@well.com> <40A38939.5080703@well.com> <2975.128.252.120.102.1084459696.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A38B9C.8010704@well.com> <3131.128.252.120.102.1084460451.squirrel@128.252.120.102> <40A39003.7040400@well.com> <3388.128.252.120.102.1084462102.squirrel@128.252.120.102> Message-ID: <40A3951D.6000204@redroom.biz> Much w000ness for davidu. mk On 13/05/2004 16:28, David A. Ulevitch wrote: > > >>aaaah, being on sysadmin might be useful :) > > > 1) I subscribed...awaiting moderator approval... > > 2) I made the DNS changes. > > -davidu From david at gigawatt.com Thu May 13 11:30:33 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:30:33 -0400 Subject: Resignation (was: Re: [theforum] Please remove this post on Finance Archives) References: Message-ID: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> hi Marlene! Marlene Bruce wrote: > > ...I'd like to be removed from office as de facto Treasurer, so > I'm tending my resignation at this point. It's pointless for me to > continue to be listed when I haven't been active in a really long > time now. > > Please remove me from the give at evolt.org email alias. i'm sorry you feel the need to go, actually not too many folks are terribly active lately. but i'm sure things will pick up more steam, and i hope you'll be sure to poke your head in from time to time, consider yourself a member and certainly an advisor. even though i haven't been around that long, it's clear that your contributions to evolt have been long-standing and invaluable, Marlene, and you will be missed. > Also, I'd like to take back my PayPal account. Who can take it over? > I will be happy to transfer the balance to a qualified recipient. I > would like to have this transfer completed by next Monday, May 17th > if possible (I'm going out of town early the next morning). i'd be happy of course to take that on, as well. i've just set up a new PayPal account in evolt's name, and linked it to the evolt checking account and tax-id, but i don't know if being a new account, you can transfer more than very small payments to it. try the transfer, via paypal, to david at gigawatt.com > Hope you all are well, and best of luck to you! > > Thanks bunches, > Marlene thanks Marlene, and take care. -dave From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 11:41:52 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:41:52 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: Resignation In-Reply-To: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> David Kaufman wrote: > [marlene disappearing snip] > > even though i haven't been around that long, it's clear that your > contributions to evolt have been long-standing and invaluable, Marlene, > and you will be missed. Ditto - I always enjoyed reading your contributions, and it's a shame you're leaving. Is it time to set up exevolters.org?! :) > i've just set up a new PayPal account in evolt's name, and linked it to > the evolt checking account and tax-id, but i don't know if being a new > account, you can transfer more than very small payments to it. > > try the transfer, via paypal, to david at gigawatt.com would be nice to tag give at evolt.org onto that account too :) -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From david at gigawatt.com Thu May 13 12:02:31 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:02:31 -0400 Subject: give@evolt paypal addy (was: Re: [theforum] Re: Resignation) References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> Message-ID: <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> William Anderson wrote: > David Kaufman wrote: >> >> i've just set up a new PayPal account in evolt's name, and linked it >> to the evolt checking account and tax-id, but i don't know if being >> a new account, you can transfer more than very small payments to it. >> >> try the transfer, via paypal, to david at gigawatt.com > > would be nice to tag give at evolt.org onto that account too :) yes that seems sensible. but for the moment, at least, an address can only be associated with one Paypal account at a time (i'd assume). Marlene Bruce wrote: > Please remove me from the give at evolt.org email alias. > > I can remove myself from any lists I'm on. oh, right. this can be rediercted to me at: david at gigawatt.com ...who would it be that maintains email aliases? after that's done, then i guess i can change the primary email address of the new Paypal account to use it (after Marlene's has changed hers). thanks, -dave From evolt at nota-bene.org Thu May 13 13:00:47 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:00:47 +0200 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org Message-ID: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> Hello all, [Jeff and Adrian, forgive me to have added your personal addresses as well as posted to theforum and sysadmin but I feel that maybe you're too busy to read (and/or reply to) the evolt.org lists, and I needed the message to get to you.] Here is the problem: I don't know who runs evolt.org, like : - who's got admin privileges on what machine - who's got file upload privileges on what machine - (insert here any question of the same type) And I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder. We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. (examples here and there from Garrett, and here's one from me: for people who belong to the content group) Granted, we could have retitled our messages, but the question still remains. I'm as happy as possible that our volunteer admins, who indeed do a great job when they're available, are busy at the moment, but we cannot really work things out that way. If we administer content we should be able to upload the files that go with the article, shouldn't we? Here's the situation: Garrett had to upload the files on a temporary browsers.evolt.org directory so the article could be published. I still have files that belong to an article I wrote hosted on my f2o.org account because they were never uploaded to main evolt.org. So, what do we do? I know that assests.evolt.org is coming, and that, if all goes as I was told, content members will have upload rights, but the problem remains: How many admins will there be to open and manage the FTP accounts? Moving a problem doesn't solve it, I'm afraid. Open question, feel free to reply. -- s t e f http://www.nota-bene.org/ From joel at spinhead.com Thu May 13 13:40:12 2004 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:40:12 -0700 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B461695F@ireland.spinhead.com> > - who's got admin privileges on what machine > - who's got file upload privileges on what machine I'm not exactly new here, and *I* sure couldn't answer those questions other than to say, "It ain't me." Though I'd love to know. With Certain Upcoming Changes, I might even be able to participate once again. joel From webguru at vsnl.net Thu May 13 13:54:20 2004 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:24:20 +0530 Subject: [theforum] Re: Resignation In-Reply-To: <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514002356.021e4ec0@mail.vsnl.net> At 22:11 13/05/2004, William Anderson wrote: >Is it time to set up exevolters.org?! :) That's gonna be a scarily long list. I'm better off not knowing. :( M From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 13 14:27:01 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:27:01 -0600 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 08:00:47PM +0200, s t e f wrote: > Here is the problem: I don't know who runs evolt.org, like : > - who's got admin privileges on what machine > - who's got file upload privileges on what machine > - (insert here any question of the same type) > And I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder. evolt.org is hosted on two different servers currently. www.evolt.org and all images are hosted on .jeff's machine. He and perhaps Judah have access to this machine for uploading files. .jeff was working on a file uploading tool some time ago but I'm not sure if it is finished. Everything else (l.e.o, b.e.o, d.e.o) is hosted on what is commonly called "the rack". This server is owned by a group of 5(?) people in the UK, namely, Martin, neuro, genghis, garrett, and Mike. This is the server that I would like to replace with a ServerMatrix server since it is not really "owned" by evolt.org. There are about 3-4 people that have root access to this machine. DNS is handled by EasyDNS, I believe, and David is the primary contact for that service but evolt.org as a whole does not have any direct ownership of those machines. > So, what do we do? I know that assests.evolt.org is coming, and > that, if all goes as I was told, content members will have upload > rights, but the problem remains: How many admins will there be to > open and manage the FTP accounts? Moving a problem doesn't solve it, > I'm afraid. This service would be on the rack which means that 3-4 people would have access to create FTP accounts. (I'm not sure if we would want to do that rather than coming up with a different access method though which would allow for an easier way to create access accounts, i.e., not having to be root.) Dean From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 13 14:31:16 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:31:16 -0600 Subject: give@evolt paypal addy (was: Re: [theforum] Re: Resignation) In-Reply-To: <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <20040513193116.GB4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:02:31PM -0400, David Kaufman wrote: > Marlene Bruce wrote: > > Please remove me from the give at evolt.org email alias. > > > > I can remove myself from any lists I'm on. > > oh, right. this can be rediercted to me at: david at gigawatt.com ...who > would it be that maintains email aliases? You and Elfur are now associated with give at evolt.org. I am copying this message to that address so you should get it twice. Dean From david at gigawatt.com Thu May 13 14:43:33 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:43:33 -0400 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <008a01c43922$93219760$1401000a@dopey> s t e f wrote: > > Here is the problem: I don't know who runs evolt.org, like : > - who's got admin privileges on what machine > - who's got file upload privileges on what machine > - (insert here any question of the same type) > And I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder. i can top that: I don't know what machines we *have*, how many there are, where they are, who they belong to, who hosts them (or donates hosting services), who we pay for hosting, what we pay for hosting, or if we pay for hosting. i suspect i'll be finding out answers to some of those questions fairly soon, now that Marlene has resigned and transferred PayPal responsibilities to moi. (that "moi" was all the French i know -- just for you, stef :^}) > We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with > admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. > > (examples here > and there > from > Garrett, and here's one from me: > for > people who belong to the content group) hmmm. i *tried* to subscribe to each and every one of the confusing array of evolt administrivia mailing lists, but i'm dismayed to realize that those links are password protected, i've never received a message from the [Content] list or [Sysadmin] (except CC's such as this). i do remember reading somewhere that Content, at least was deemed "sensitive material", because the critique and possible rejection of the writing of our contributors was discussed there. i've just resubmitted subscription requests to the Content and Sysadmin lists. hopefully whoever moderates the lists will approve me. also, i had to *guess* the url for the subscription pages to do so -- why not link them on lists.evolt.org? is the very existence of these lists sensitive? perhaps after we consolidate all these admin lists down from whatever it currently is (seven?) to whatever was decided to be recently (three, two? dare i ask it be one?) we can get some *transparency* going on, so that those who are able to find the time to participate will be better able to Easily See and Speak about whatever's going on, and feel like they're able to get things done without having to bear an undue burden of red tape. such obstacles to participation, lack of information, communication, authorization should be obsolete in online electronic communities like evolt. the apathy and attrition of active, enthusiastic leaders lately may be due in some part to plain old simple inconvenience :-) -dave From david at gigawatt.com Thu May 13 15:09:02 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:09:02 -0400 Subject: servers and services (was: Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <00c101c43926$22a585b0$1401000a@dopey> Dean Mah wrote: > > evolt.org is hosted on two different servers currently. [...].jeff's > [and] "the rack" ... owned by Martin, neuro, genghis, garrett, > and Mike [... more useful details snipped] thanks for the enlightenment, Dean! so two servers, both dedicated, and both owned by generous evolters. may i ask what monthly services we pay for? bandwidth, rack space? i ask because Marlene has completed the transfer of PayPal funds to the new evolt PayPal account that i just setup, and i'm wondering if there are monthly bills i should be aware of. and, in the interest of transparency, the amount was $2,167.36 - i'm curious (as others may be) how much turnover there is in that account: donations in, payments out... i'll ask Marlene to download a CSV file of historical transactions and forward it to me. i'd like to get some web space somewhere in Evoltia too, where Elfur and I can publish and update all of the financial information that should be public, which i think should be *everything* (except passwords and PIN numbers) and maybe give credit to contributors (who do not opt for discretion) etc. thanks again for the info! -dave From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 13 15:48:37 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:48:37 -0600 Subject: servers and services (was: Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <00c101c43926$22a585b0$1401000a@dopey> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> <00c101c43926$22a585b0$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <20040513204837.GB4886@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 04:09:02PM -0400, David Kaufman wrote: > Dean Mah wrote: > > > > evolt.org is hosted on two different servers currently. [...].jeff's > > [and] "the rack" ... owned by Martin, neuro, genghis, garrett, > > and Mike [... more useful details snipped] > > thanks for the enlightenment, Dean! so two servers, both dedicated, and > both owned by generous evolters. may i ask what monthly services we pay > for? bandwidth, rack space? Currently, I believe that everything is resting on the shoulders of the individuals that run the servers. Should their generousity run out, we run into the same problem that we had when we were required to move from Dan's host to Ron's to the current situation. However, I'm sure that if they want, they can breakdown the costs. This is one of the reasons that we want to move away from the rack to a community owned server which will start to come out of the evolt.org coffers. [See my previous message about lists hosting.] I'm assuming that we will eventually move w.e.o as well but its requirements are a little steeper in that it relies on commercial software. > i'd like to get some web space somewhere in Evoltia too, where Elfur > and I can publish and update all of the financial information that > should be public, which i think should be *everything* (except > passwords and PIN numbers) and maybe give credit to contributors > (who do not opt for discretion) etc. There was a wiki set up for this sort of thing but I don't know if it is functioning any longer. Dean From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 13 15:52:52 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:52:52 -0600 Subject: [Sysadmin] Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <5503E09A-A51A-11D8-B0AE-000393DC735E@everydns.net> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> <5503E09A-A51A-11D8-B0AE-000393DC735E@everydns.net> Message-ID: <20040513205252.GC4886@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 03:15:52PM -0500, David A. Ulevitch wrote: > On May 13, 2004, at 2:27 PM, Dean Mah wrote: > > >DNS is handled by EasyDNS, I believe, and David is the primary contact > >for that service but evolt.org as a whole does not have any direct > >ownership of those machines. > > s/Easy/Every. EasyDNS is a commercial domain purchase company I think. > (but run by Mark Jeftovic who is of rather high clue level) My apologies. A slip of the mind. > I have the evolt.org/evolters.org domain in their own account on my > system. I'm happy to provide the username/password to whomever the > right person is. It may have become me today (at least in some > unofficial capacity). It's probably something that should be handed over to sysadmin at some point. Obviously not to the sysadmin list since the archive is open. It's probably a safe bet to send it to neuro and then as our steering rep. he can distribute it appropriately. Dean From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 13 16:06:14 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:06:14 -0600 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <008a01c43922$93219760$1401000a@dopey> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <008a01c43922$93219760$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <20040513210614.GA5081@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 03:43:33PM -0400, David Kaufman wrote: > s t e f wrote: > > > > We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with > > admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. > > > > (examples here > > and there > > from > > Garrett, and here's one from me: > > for > > people who belong to the content group) > > hmmm. i *tried* to subscribe to each and every one of the confusing > array of evolt administrivia mailing lists, but i'm dismayed to realize > that those links are password protected, i've never received a message > from the [Content] list or [Sysadmin] (except CC's such as this). i do > remember reading somewhere that Content, at least was deemed "sensitive > material", because the critique and possible rejection of the writing of > our contributors was discussed there. That's correct. IMHO, the messages regarding getting files uploaded to the w.e.o server needed to go to sysadmin as well. Currently, it's a sysadmin responsibility to upload the images. (I'm not saying that I believe that it should be.) The same applies to requests for DNS changes, which should be a sysadmin job. Regardless, I have approved your subscription to both lists. (This was a bit of a totalitarian move but was done for expediency since I'll be away in a bit.) > i've just resubmitted subscription requests to the Content and Sysadmin > lists. hopefully whoever moderates the lists will approve me. Each group should moderate their own list and decide who is approved. > also, i had to *guess* the url for the subscription pages to do so > -- why not link them on lists.evolt.org? is the very existence of > these lists sensitive? Most people that are aware of these groups should be participating in theforum as a whole. Typically only a small number of people are admitted to these groups because they either deal with sensitive information or their purpose is too specific for most people. As well, the idea was to keep the groups small to encourage active and vocal participation and to rotate the members every once in a while. > perhaps after we consolidate all these admin lists down from whatever it > currently is (seven?) to whatever was decided to be recently (three, > two? dare i ask it be one?) we can get some *transparency* going on, > so that those who are able to find the time to participate will be > better able to Easily See and Speak about whatever's going on, and feel > like they're able to get things done without having to bear an undue > burden of red tape. > > such obstacles to participation, lack of information, communication, > authorization should be obsolete in online electronic communities like > evolt. the apathy and attrition of active, enthusiastic leaders lately > may be due in some part to plain old simple inconvenience :-) That's a whole different can of worms that I won't get into. I'll mention that the current structure (lists, groups, wiki) was supposed to help address some of the problems that you noted. Dean From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com Thu May 13 17:33:04 2004 From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:33:04 +0100 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> Message-ID: theforum-bounces at lists.evolt.org wrote on 13/05/2004 20:27:01: > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 08:00:47PM +0200, s t e f wrote: > > > Here is the problem: I don't know who runs evolt.org, like : > > - who's got admin privileges on what machine > > - who's got file upload privileges on what machine > > - (insert here any question of the same type) > > And I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder. > > evolt.org is hosted on two different servers currently. www.evolt.org > and all images are hosted on .jeff's machine. > Everything else (l.e.o, b.e.o, d.e.o) is hosted on what is commonly > called "the rack". This server is owned by a group of 5(?) people in > the UK, namely, Martin, neuro, genghis, garrett, and Mike. This is > the server that I would like to replace with a ServerMatrix server > since it is not really "owned" by evolt.org. There are about 3-4 > people that have root access to this machine. A very big +1 on that from me. We bought the raq primarily to be a beo mirror, and took on the other services on an interim (and very short notice) basis last year when we lost our CSI hosting. It's not A Good Thing that so much of evolt's hosting is provided on a 'mates' basis on a box that evolt.org doesn't directly control, particularly when we (evolt.org) have cash at hand and pledges to more than cover a much better box for a year or more without much worry. http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000765.html http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000767.html > DNS is handled by EasyDNS, I believe, and David is the primary contact > for that service but evolt.org as a whole does not have any direct > ownership of those machines. > > > So, what do we do? I know that assests.evolt.org is coming, and > > that, if all goes as I was told, content members will have upload > > rights, but the problem remains: How many admins will there be to > > open and manage the FTP accounts? Moving a problem doesn't solve it, > > I'm afraid. > This service would be on the rack which means that 3-4 people would > have access to create FTP accounts. (I'm not sure if we would want to > do that rather than coming up with a different access method though > which would allow for an easier way to create access accounts, i.e., > not having to be root.) Without wanting to get into it too deeply, a Zope instance (there's one on the raq, but we have a disk allocation issue that we've not solved) would provide FTP/WebDAV, authentication and version control out of the box. Oh, and wouldn't require root access to the box... Cheers Martin From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com Thu May 13 17:41:53 2004 From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:41:53 +0100 Subject: servers and services (was: Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <20040513204837.GB4886@alice.cg.shawcable.net> Message-ID: Dean wrote on 13/05/2004 21:48:37: > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 04:09:02PM -0400, David Kaufman wrote: > > > > thanks for the enlightenment, Dean! so two servers, both dedicated, Neither dedicated iirc. Certainly theraq runs some other stuff. > and > > both owned by generous evolters. may i ask what monthly services we pay > > for? bandwidth, rack space? > > Currently, I believe that everything is resting on the shoulders of > the individuals that run the servers. Should their generousity run > out, we run into the same problem that we had when we were required to > move from Dan's host to Ron's to the current situation. However, I'm > sure that if they want, they can breakdown the costs. $100/month+TX sales tax for the raq. > This is one of the reasons that we want to move away from the rack to > a community owned server which will start to come out of the evolt.org > coffers. [See my previous message about lists hosting.] I'm assuming > that we will eventually move w.e.o as well but its requirements are a > little steeper in that it relies on commercial software. Just flagging that this is the current state of affairs, which may or may not be true forever. > > i'd like to get some web space somewhere in Evoltia too, where Elfur > > and I can publish and update all of the financial information that > > should be public, which i think should be *everything* (except > > passwords and PIN numbers) and maybe give credit to contributors > > (who do not opt for discretion) etc. *cough* http://acornparenting.org:8080/donation_wall > > There was a wiki set up for this sort of thing but I don't know if it > is functioning any longer. http://wiki.evolt.org but it's the zope instance on the raq that has the disk allocation issue (Cobalt Raqs suck if you want to do anything different from what they're designed for) Cheers Martin From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 22:11:43 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:11:43 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: give@evolt paypal addy In-Reply-To: <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey> <40A3A550.4090802@well.com> <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <40A438EF.6090308@well.com> David Kaufman wrote: > William Anderson wrote: >>David Kaufman wrote: >>>i've just set up a new PayPal account in evolt's name, and linked it >>>to the evolt checking account and tax-id, but i don't know if being >>>a new account, you can transfer more than very small payments to it. >>> >>>try the transfer, via paypal, to david at gigawatt.com >> >>would be nice to tag give at evolt.org onto that account too :) > > yes that seems sensible. but for the moment, at least, an address can > only be associated with one Paypal account at a time (i'd assume). No, you can tag multiple email addresses on to a PayPal account ... -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From neuro at well.com Thu May 13 22:20:40 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:20:40 +0100 Subject: [Sysadmin] Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <20040513205252.GC4886@alice.cg.shawcable.net> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <20040513192701.GA4324@alice.cg.shawcable.net> <5503E09A-A51A-11D8-B0AE-000393DC735E@everydns.net> <20040513205252.GC4886@alice.cg.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <40A43B08.10608@well.com> Dean Mah wrote: > [dns management user/pass handover snippage] > > It's probably something that should be handed over to sysadmin at some > point. Obviously not to the sysadmin list since the archive is open. > It's probably a safe bet to send it to neuro and then as our steering > rep. he can distribute it appropriately. I'm happy with that if everyone else is, but over time I'd like to migrate to our own name server (waiting until we have a new box at servermatrix or wherever seems the best idea) with backups distributed in different places, i.e. EveryDNS, gradwell.com, etc for good backup name service coverage. I do this on a regular basis for my job and for my personal domains, so setting up bind 8 or 9 on the new box - which will likely be running debian :> - and getting the domain(s) set up is a piece of piss. -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From elfur at elfur.is Fri May 14 03:34:40 2004 From: elfur at elfur.is (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Elfur_Logad=F3ttir?=) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:34:40 -0000 Subject: [theforum] Re: give@evolt paypal addy In-Reply-To: <40A438EF.6090308@well.com> Message-ID: .:| >>would be nice to tag give at evolt.org onto that account too :) .:| > .:| > yes that seems sensible. but for the moment, at least, .:| an address can .:| > only be associated with one Paypal account at a time (i'd assume). .:| .:| No, you can tag multiple email addresses on to a PayPal account ... Yes, but while g at eo is attached to the other paypal account, it can't be attached to this one ... > one paypal account per email addy :) Later The silent one Who just won her first moot court From neuro at well.com Fri May 14 08:10:28 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:10:28 +0100 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> s t e f wrote: > [Jeff and Adrian, forgive me to have added your personal addresses as > well as posted to theforum and sysadmin but I feel that maybe you're too > busy to read (and/or reply to) the evolt.org lists, and I needed the > message to get to you.] > > Here is the problem: I don't know who runs evolt.org, like : > - who's got admin privileges on what machine > - who's got file upload privileges on what machine > - (insert here any question of the same type) > And I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder. > We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with > admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. my message re: dns wasn't answered by david u because he wasn't subbed to sysadmin - just means we need to ensure everyone everywhere is on the right lists. > If we administer content we should be able to upload the files that go > with the article, shouldn't we? Yes, but I reckon the assets.evolt.org thing will work on a manual basis for a while - "Hello contentians, please can those with privs[1] put these images on assets for me for an article ..." and it will be done. [1] "those with privs" will pretty much mean someone with a shell login on the raq. > Here's the situation: > Garrett had to upload the files on a temporary browsers.evolt.org *I* did that so that Garrett's personal web space wouldn't be hit with unduly riotous bandwidth humpage. I'll switch it over to assets.evolt.org later today once I'm sure the DNS has refreshed. -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri May 14 08:42:23 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:42:23 +0100 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> Message-ID: <20040514134223.GA30438@chillibean> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 02:10:28PM +0100, William Anderson wrote: > >We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with > >admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. > > my message re: dns wasn't answered by david u because he wasn't subbed to > sysadmin - just means we need to ensure everyone everywhere is on the right > lists. Which should be much easier with the streamlined lists with any luck. When are they going to be actioned btw? > unduly riotous bandwidth humpage. Phrase du jour! G. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk & http://spiked.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From joel at spinhead.com Fri May 14 08:48:17 2004 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 06:48:17 -0700 Subject: list re-engineering? (was RE: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616965@ireland.spinhead.com> > Which should be much easier with the streamlined lists with any luck. > > When are they going to be actioned btw? and for those of us just returning to the fold, is there a brief summary of what they are, so we can start planning our future (re-)involvement? joel From david at gigawatt.com Fri May 14 08:47:47 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:47:47 -0400 Subject: resolved (was: Re: [theforum] Re: give@evolt paypal addy) References: Message-ID: <002601c439ba$0ab152b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Elfur Logad?ttir wrote: > .:| >>would be nice to tag give at evolt.org onto that account too :) > .:| > > .:| > yes that seems sensible. but for the moment, at least, > .:| an address can > .:| > only be associated with one Paypal account at a time (i'd > assume). .:| > .:| No, you can tag multiple email addresses on to a PayPal account > ... > > Yes, but while g at eo is attached to the other paypal account, it can't > be attached to this one ... > one paypal account per email addy :) okay this issue is resolved. the give at evolt.org address now forwards to myself and Elfur (Marlene de-associated the address with here Paypal account). it is also now setup as the primary "send money to..." address on this new account so it receives payments made from the website links. Elfur, apparently now i you "add users" to paypal accounts, by email address to allow multiple logins. this would prevent us from having to share the same login and password, and also provide a safer way for you to *get* a password, i.e. instead of me having to email it insecurely, you'd get a welcome email or something with a link that lets you set your own password. which is way cool, except i was not able to add your email address as a second login to this paypal account because it says, "The email address is already registered with another PayPal account. If you own that account, login to perform transactions. Otherwise, please enter a different email address." i guess you either have a paypal login to Marlene's paypal account, or your address is associated with another paypal account account, your own personal one, perhaps? if you use that for your own private paypal account, do you have a second private email address that you control and could use to login to the evolt payapal account? and, if you *do* still have a login to Marlene's, could you log into it and download a CSV file of historical transactions (My Account / History / Reporting Tools / Download My History Comma delimited file / All Activity) before dis-associating your address with that account? thanks, -dave -dave From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri May 14 08:51:45 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:51:45 +0100 Subject: list re-engineering? (was RE: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616965@ireland.spinhead.com> References: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616965@ireland.spinhead.com> Message-ID: <20040514135145.GC30438@chillibean> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 06:48:17AM -0700, Joel D Canfield wrote: > > Which should be much easier with the streamlined lists with any luck. > > > > When are they going to be actioned btw? > > and for those of us just returning to the fold, is there a brief summary > of what they are, so we can start planning our future (re-)involvement? Yay! Joels coming back! http://lists.evolt.org/theforumarchive/Week-of-Mon-20040405/000569.html Number 3 won the vote, which is: * content (content + marketing): * code (sysadmin + desdev) * admin (theforum + steering + finance) - steering ceases to exist, however representatives are chosen to call / administrate votes IF votes are needed quickly G. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk & http://spiked.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From david at gigawatt.com Fri May 14 08:53:30 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:53:30 -0400 Subject: [theforum] Re: give@evolt paypal addy References: <005001c43907$9d701860$1401000a@dopey><40A3A550.4090802@well.com> <005b01c4390c$147ca3c0$1401000a@dopey> <40A438EF.6090308@well.com> Message-ID: <002d01c439ba$e461ee20$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> William Anderson wrote: > David Kaufman wrote: >> yes that seems sensible. but for the moment, at least, an address >> can only be associated with one Paypal account at a time (i'd >> assume). > > No, you can tag multiple email addresses on to a PayPal account ... you can one account with multiple addresses, but not the other way around. you can't have any address associated with more than one account. give at evolt was removed from Marlene's, is now associated with the new account, and the funds have been transferred. now we just have to get Elfur's address associated with the new account (same issue). -dave From webguru at vsnl.net Fri May 14 08:52:34 2004 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:22:34 +0530 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514192220.022b3500@mail.vsnl.net> At 18:40 14/05/2004, William Anderson wrote: >*I* did that so that Garrett's personal web space wouldn't be hit with >unduly riotous bandwidth humpage. I'll switch it over to assets.evolt.org >later today once I'm sure the DNS has refreshed. .jeff has moved the images over to w.e.o now. Madhu From neuro at well.com Fri May 14 09:34:15 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:34:15 +0100 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514192220.022b3500@mail.vsnl.net> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040514192220.022b3500@mail.vsnl.net> Message-ID: <40A4D8E7.6020504@well.com> Madhu Menon wrote: > At 18:40 14/05/2004, William Anderson wrote: > >> *I* did that so that Garrett's personal web space wouldn't be hit with >> unduly riotous bandwidth humpage. I'll switch it over to >> assets.evolt.org later today once I'm sure the DNS has refreshed. > > .jeff has moved the images over to w.e.o now. why so long? -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From neuro at well.com Fri May 14 09:33:28 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:33:28 +0100 Subject: list re-engineering? (was RE: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <20040514135145.GC30438@chillibean> References: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616965@ireland.spinhead.com> <20040514135145.GC30438@chillibean> Message-ID: <40A4D8B8.9020605@well.com> Garrett Coakley wrote: > [snip] > > Yay! Joels coming back! hey joel :) > * content (content + marketing): > * code (sysadmin + desdev) > * admin (theforum + steering + finance) > - steering ceases to exist, however representatives are chosen to call > / administrate votes IF votes are needed quickly can I respectfully suggest (and no comments about stupid naming conventions, I like em!) ... thecontent, thecode, theadmin .. so as to kill off the old list names to avoid future confusion? IIRC there's an admin@ address which would clash. Also it can be made clear that theadmin doesn't mean "The Administrators" but "The Administration of evolt.org" :) -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From dmah at shaw.ca Fri May 14 09:08:06 2004 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:08:06 -0600 Subject: [theforum] lists (was: We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <20040514134223.GA30438@chillibean> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> <20040514134223.GA30438@chillibean> Message-ID: <20040514140806.GB1913@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 02:42:23PM +0100, Garrett Coakley wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 02:10:28PM +0100, William Anderson wrote: > > > >We haven't had any response to a few emails that implied people with > > >admin rights, and matters have been complicated needlessly. > > > > my message re: dns wasn't answered by david u because he wasn't subbed to > > sysadmin - just means we need to ensure everyone everywhere is on the right > > lists. > > Which should be much easier with the streamlined lists with any luck. > > When are they going to be actioned btw? As may have been noted in my other e-mail, it would probably be best to wait until we changed servers before doing this. I've never had any luck getting an 'admin' list working on theraq because there was a user account called 'admin' on it. It also means less migration when we get the new box, assuming that Finance agrees we can take it on and no one has any objections. Dean From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri May 14 10:00:59 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:00:59 +0100 Subject: [theforum] lists (was: We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <20040514140806.GB1913@alice.cg.shawcable.net> References: <40A3B7CF.6010801@nota-bene.org> <40A4C544.5010404@well.com> <20040514134223.GA30438@chillibean> <20040514140806.GB1913@alice.cg.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <20040514150059.GF30438@chillibean> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 08:08:06AM -0600, Dean Mah wrote: > As may have been noted in my other e-mail, it would probably be best > to wait until we changed servers before doing this. I've never had > any luck getting an 'admin' list working on theraq because there was a > user account called 'admin' on it. Ah right sorry Dean, didn't see that one. That's cool. Having to look after a raq for work, I know what you mean about the default admin account. PITA. G. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk & http://spiked.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From david at gigawatt.com Fri May 14 10:18:04 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:18:04 -0400 Subject: servers and services deux (was: Re: [Sysadmin] Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here atevolt.org) References: Message-ID: <003001c439c6$a7a235b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Martin Paul Burns wrote: >> Everything else (l.e.o, b.e.o, d.e.o) is hosted on what is commonly >> called "the rack". This server is owned by a group [snip] This is >> the server that I would like to replace [...] since it is not really >> "owned" by evolt.org. > > A very big +1 on that from me. We bought the raq primarily to be a beo > mirror, and took on the other services on an interim (and very short > notice) basis last year when we lost our CSI hosting. > > It's not A Good Thing that so much of evolt's hosting is provided on a > 'mates' basis on a box that evolt.org doesn't directly control, > particularly when we (evolt.org) have cash at hand and pledges to > more than cover a much better box for a year or more without much > worry. http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000765.html > http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000767.html and +1 from me, too. it seems that it would be quite A Good Thing for evolt, as an entity, to pay it's own way. so that it's not a never-ending burden on the generosity of those who are hosting it currently, and to be able to tell would-be donors where their money goes, and exactly why it is needed. currently, there's a post or two at the bottom of www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt that, while supportive, raise questions about why we are asking for, why we need, so much money ($10K), and suggesting lower-cost bandwidth and hosting alternatives. they raise fair questions. whether those specific hosting suggestions are valid options for us or not, the posts were not responded to, which looks bad, IMO. and they remain un-addressed for a good reason, i think. it would make me very uneasy to have to answer direct questions like those from donating members with something like, "Well, some members donate hosting (us), and others donate *money* (you), we then take some of the money donated (by you) and pay some of the people generously donating hosting (our peeps) to help offset the great burden of their (our) donations". the parenthetic "you"'s and "we"'s are of course not part of the answer to the question -- i inserted them to represent the likely suspicions of the donors. at best such an answer makes us look (to the uninvolved but casually suspicious observer) like a business disguised as a nonprofit, at worst it makes us look like a total scam operation, while the truth lies at the other end of the spectrum, we operate like that because we're just a disorganized organization :-) and most of our doors understand and can forgive that, but they shouldn't *have* to. as a not-for-profit (in the U.S. in particular) we have to avoid even the *appearance* of impropriety. many so-called charities turn out to be scams and, well, this is the internet. people are smart to be wary about giving away their money. of course we're not scamming, but the fact that we have 2 grand in the bank, we have people giving us money, and other people donating hosting is just not sustainable, ethically. evolt.org exists to share knowledge (at least that's best i can come up with, sans a mission statement) we're not here to make money. so, whenever and wherever we do collect money, we need to be up-front about where it goes, and why it's needed. so i agree with Martin that, especially now that evolt is a legal entity, it should use it's assets to pay it's own expenses, and should make it's finances open and public. this can only improve members' confidence in us as a worthy, and *trust*-worthy, NON-profit organization. i'm not saying we should rush the process unduly. but i think evolt should resolve to consider the currently donated hosting services as strictly a *temporary* solution that is needed, and in place *only* until evolt can get it's own legs under it. so i submit that our next order of business should be deciding whether evolt will: 1) buy or rent the current servers and pay the current providers (resellers?) for the rack space and bandwidth, or 2) provision it's own new web hosting services (whether that means buy and collocate, rent dedicated, rent shared or some combination) and transition all existing services to these platforms as i mentioned, i see this as a very important need. it doesn't matter whether the financial burden placed on those generous members who donate hosting services actually *is* "offset" by the cash coming in, or not. people will wonder. we will either justify or deny it. neither makes sense. we need to rearrange things to make it crystal clear where money comes from, and where it goes. the next order of business, i think, should be figuring out what our mission *is*, then drafting and publishing a formal mission statement. although evolt is not *for* profit, it may very well *be* profitable (if we continue to be loved by donors and frugal with bills), which means we may have opportunities to accomplish Good Things with the funds that come in, to support some higher purposes, once those purposes are clearly defined. although we *could* merely strive to keep our assets low to avoid paying taxes on them, i think it'd be infinitely more fun to be a *real* non-profit organization, figure out a list of ways we can use money to achieve some higher purposes and goals, ways to give back, to help and serve the kind of people who are drawn to evolt, and then do that. we'd sleep good at night, knowing we do something worthwhile in addition to our day jobs, and it's also better than paying taxes :-) -dave (who's obivous secret agenda is to make his next business not a "business" at all, and is probably just using evolt as a big experimental test-bed for his own nefarious purposes) From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com Fri May 14 10:37:12 2004 From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:37:12 +0100 Subject: servers and services deux (was: Re: [Sysadmin] Re: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here atevolt.org) In-Reply-To: <003001c439c6$a7a235b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: David wrote (amongst other stuff I agree with) on 14/05/2004 16:18:04: > Martin Paul Burns wrote: > > It's not A Good Thing that so much of evolt's hosting is provided on a > > 'mates' basis on a box that evolt.org doesn't directly control, > > particularly when we (evolt.org) have cash at hand and pledges to > > more than cover a much better box for a year or more without much > > worry. http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000765.html > > http://lists.evolt.org/sysadminarchive/2003-August/000767.html > > evolt.org exists to share knowledge (at least that's best i can come up > with, sans a mission statement) we're not here to make money. so, whenever > and wherever we do collect money, we need to be up-front about where it > goes, and why it's needed. > > so i agree with Martin that, especially now that evolt is a legal entity, it > should use it's assets to pay it's own expenses, and should make it's > finances open and public. this can only improve members' confidence in us > as a worthy, and *trust*-worthy, NON-profit organization. i'm not saying > we should rush the process unduly. but i think evolt should resolve to > consider the currently donated hosting services as strictly a *temporary* > solution that is needed, and in place *only* until evolt can get it's own > legs under it. Or, to put it another way, if we're not paying for hosting (or indeed anything else), we have no right to be collecting donations, and should return the cash we have. > so i submit that our next order of business should be deciding whether evolt > will: > > 1) buy or rent the current servers and pay the current providers > (resellers?) for the rack space and bandwidth, or Current leo/beo/deo is far from ideal for what we want it to do. Plus it'd be nice for it to get back to being a beo mirror. Cheers Martin From neuro at well.com Fri May 14 10:45:53 2004 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:45:53 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: servers and services deux In-Reply-To: <003001c439c6$a7a235b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> References: <003001c439c6$a7a235b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: <40A4E9B1.2060705@well.com> David Kaufman wrote: > [snip] > > whether those specific hosting suggestions are valid options for us or not, > the posts were not responded to, which looks bad, IMO. and they remain > un-addressed for a good reason, i think. it would make me very uneasy to > have to answer direct questions like those from donating members with > something like, "Well, some members donate hosting (us), and others donate > *money* (you), we then take some of the money donated (by you) and pay some > of the people generously donating hosting (our peeps) to help offset the > great burden of their (our) donations". the parenthetic "you"'s and "we"'s > are of course not part of the answer to the question -- i inserted them to > represent the likely suspicions of the donors. I've certainly never been reimbursed for the money I contribute towards the raq ... -- _ __/| William Anderson | Brodie: The Force is strong with this one \`O_o' neuro at well dot com | Jay: Dude, don't encourage him =(_ _)= http://neuro.me.uk/ | -- Mallrats, (1995) U - Thhbt! GPG 0xFA5F1100 | From elfur at elfur.is Fri May 14 11:07:32 2004 From: elfur at elfur.is (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Elfur_Logad=F3ttir?=) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:07:32 -0000 Subject: resolved (was: Re: [theforum] Re: give@evolt paypal addy) In-Reply-To: <002601c439ba$0ab152b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> Message-ID: .:| .:| which is way cool, except i was not able to add your email .:| address as a .:| second login to this paypal account because it says, "The .:| email address is .:| already registered with another PayPal account. If you own .:| that account, .:| login to perform transactions. Otherwise, please enter a .:| different email .:| address." Yes. I have my own. Just add give at elfur.is Thanks elfur From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri May 14 11:16:14 2004 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:16:14 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: servers and services deux In-Reply-To: <40A4E9B1.2060705@well.com> References: <003001c439c6$a7a235b0$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <40A4E9B1.2060705@well.com> Message-ID: <05755A8E-A5C2-11D8-85DA-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 14 May 2004, at 16:45, William Anderson wrote: > David Kaufman wrote: >> [snip] >> whether those specific hosting suggestions are valid options for us >> or not, >> the posts were not responded to, which looks bad, IMO. and they >> remain >> un-addressed for a good reason, i think. it would make me very >> uneasy to >> have to answer direct questions like those from donating members with >> something like, "Well, some members donate hosting (us), and others >> donate >> *money* (you), we then take some of the money donated (by you) and >> pay some >> of the people generously donating hosting (our peeps) to help offset >> the >> great burden of their (our) donations". the parenthetic "you"'s and >> "we"'s >> are of course not part of the answer to the question -- i inserted >> them to >> represent the likely suspicions of the donors. > > I've certainly never been reimbursed for the money I contribute > towards the raq ... The above hasn't been true since we left CSI (and left behind our old hardware btw) Cheers martin - -- Now playing on iTunes: "Me Diras Que Sabroso" by Compay Segundo from 'Caf? Cubana - Cigars, Cars And Cuban Cars' -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFApPDOon5lm40dmVIRAm90AJ972ApturrrLZtD88pHTM18rMRElACgvkac DMsvlWCAU5CLzzOYYaMpkKU= =UwMj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at easyweb.co.uk Fri May 14 18:49:42 2004 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:49:42 +0100 Subject: [theforum] Re: [Finance] Please remove this post on Finance Archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EA4C1BA-A601-11D8-85DA-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12 May 2004, at 21:10, Marlene Bruce wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've received an email from Matt Parker requesting that we remove this > post from the finance archives: > > http://lists.evolt.org/financearchive/2004-March/000332.html > > Please let me know when it's been removed, and email Matt at the > following address as well so he knows it's been removed. > > mailto:seven at ruguide.com > > Thanks for prompt attention to this matter. Done (or rather, the content of the complaint email that cites him is gone) Cheers martin - -- Now playing on iTunes: "Me Diras Que Sabroso" by Compay Segundo from 'Caf? Cubana - Cigars, Cars And Cuban Cars' -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFApVsVon5lm40dmVIRAvQzAJ91jMNbfv1JLkfpYtQMDmgYlmFRTwCcDzg5 /gm8uR8O6jkxKZ426ngMqZY= =MiP2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From evolt at nota-bene.org Sat May 15 03:21:28 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:21:28 +0200 Subject: list re-engineering? (was RE: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org) In-Reply-To: <20040514135145.GC30438@chillibean> References: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616965@ireland.spinhead.com> <20040514135145.GC30438@chillibean> Message-ID: <40A5D308.9030609@nota-bene.org> > http://lists.evolt.org/theforumarchive/Week-of-Mon-20040405/000569.html > > Number 3 won the vote, which is: > > * content (content + marketing): > * code (sysadmin + desdev) > * admin (theforum + steering + finance) > - steering ceases to exist, however representatives are chosen to call > / administrate votes IF votes are needed quickly ... and content's archive still being closed, IIRC. That's why I didn't vote for *3* although it's got its own logic and I like it too: should marketing not be public? Anyway now that the vote has ended I'm OK with our democratic ways, of course. But still, let us not forget that content's archive has never been and should not be public IMHO. Although, of course, volunteers are welcome :) From jeff at jeffhowden.com Sat May 15 22:35:36 2004 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 20:35:36 -0700 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <40A4D8E7.6020504@well.com> Message-ID: William, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: William Anderson > > > .jeff has moved the images over to w.e.o now. > > why so long? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< In contrast, why'd it take so long for someone to try to contact me directly? That aside, I've been very busy since late March. With moving from Eugene to Beaverton (2 hours north and finally in the Portland area), opening up an office in downtown Portland, numerous other responsibilities that come with a move like this, and dealing with a PST file at 2 gigs that kept Outlook from working, I've neither had the time for list email nor the capacity to read it (any of you tried to manage 1000+ emails a day through a web interface?). That being said, things are getting back to slightly more normal now. Still, if expediency is an issue, an offlist email or phone call (even better) is the best way to go. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From joel at spinhead.com Sun May 16 00:56:05 2004 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 22:56:05 -0700 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616971@ireland.spinhead.com> > > why so long? > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > In contrast, why'd it take so long for someone to try to > contact me directly? Which is, in part, what this thread is about. Shouldn't require a direct request to get something this simple done. It should just be part of an existing process, and there should be enough folks with the capabilities and permissions to do things in a timely manner even one admin is moving/offline/whatever. joel From evolt at nota-bene.org Sun May 16 05:35:53 2004 From: evolt at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:35:53 +0200 Subject: [theforum] moving and/or redeveloping (was Re: [Finance] lists) In-Reply-To: References: <001c01c439d0$21c2c590$0100a8c0@CPXPDEV02> <5E783C86-A5FB-11D8-85DA-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk> <40A5D3C4.1090909@nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <40A74409.9080604@nota-bene.org> >> Martin, care to explain that part? It didn't get through my hazy brain. > > Currently weo runs on Jeff's Win2k/SQLServer/CF box. > > If it were to move to an evolt.org box, > > 1) we could have a Win2k(etc) box, which will cost us in license fees, > and Sysadmin would have to be OK about supporting it. I would imagine > that the ease of the migration would be offset by unhappiness about the > cost and ease of supporting Windows. > > or > > 2) We could have a Linux box, which would mean a substantial rewrite in > the CMS, involving no longer using much of the CMS code to date. This > would upset those who have contributed to it - particularly Jeff. > > Making either choice is going to upset people I think. And that's one > reason we haven't talked about it - we don't want to upset anyone. Right. [back to theforum for this general question] Has sysadmin begun to talk about that in general, or not at all in the past? I feel that if it ends up with #2, the redesign must happen concomitantly, because design and re-coding will only happen once -- whereas if we redesign and then decide to go the linux route, everything will need to be redone. Or maybe it's too early to talk about it since you're in the money questions right now...? -- s t e f personal: http://nota-bene.org/ org: http://evolt.org/ french org: http://pompage.net/ From martin.burns at uk.ibm.com Sun May 16 10:06:49 2004 From: martin.burns at uk.ibm.com (Martin Paul Burns) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:06:49 +0100 Subject: [theforum] We've got a serious problem here at evolt.org In-Reply-To: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616971@ireland.spinhead.com> Message-ID: Joel wrote on 16/05/2004 06:56:05: > > > why so long? > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > > > In contrast, why'd it take so long for someone to try to > > contact me directly? > > Which is, in part, what this thread is about. Shouldn't require a direct > request to get something this simple done. It should just be part of an > existing process, and there should be enough folks with the capabilities > and permissions to do things in a timely manner even one admin is > moving/offline/whatever. Moreover, as it's part of evolt.org's content activities, it lives on the content list. If it requires direct, offlist requests, then the under the bus scenario is being played out already. As Adrian eloquently put it on a previous occasion, shit or get off the pot. Cheers Martin