From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 17:22:36 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 17:22:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] delete, finally trying to fix thesite archives.. Message-ID: <3A0F254B.FABE4D8E@five2one.org> thanks. From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 17:23:41 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 17:23:41 2000 Subject: [thesite] delete, finally trying to fix thesite archives.. References: <3A0F254B.FABE4D8E@five2one.org> Message-ID: <3A0F259A.9708006A@five2one.org> well i think that fucked up all the lists.. oops :) "Daniel J. Cody" wrote: > > thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ -- its everywhere you want to be From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 17:34:52 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 17:34:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] another test.. Message-ID: <3A0F2839.27A840BB@five2one.org> la la la From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 17:40:50 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 17:40:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] another test.. References: <3A0F2839.27A840BB@five2one.org> Message-ID: <3A0F299F.5116C876@five2one.org> only a couple more. "Daniel J. Cody" wrote: > > la la la > > _______________________________________________ > thesite mailing list > thesite at lists.evolt.org > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 18:10:38 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 18:10:38 2000 Subject: [thesite] ok, read this. Message-ID: <3A0F308F.B40D90F7@five2one.org> Good news: thesite is archive again properly. Bad news: I had to wipe out the old archive to do it. Not so bad news: I still have 'most' of the data from thesite from dec99-now Fickle news: you can access the old archives(ugly, sorry) at http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ not the best solution, but the old stuff - sans jun2000 till yesterday - is there. talk about a bitch of a workaround. oh, ya. I had to recreate this mailing list to get it working. If you were on a digest of this list, you'll have to change your options back to you. Right now, everyone is back on as a 'realtime' member. Change your stuff at http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite/ Maybe this will give the 50+ idle people here a kick and the arse :) Lemme know if you see anything thats wack/wrong/out of place/not working :) thnx.. .djc. From djc at five2one.org Sun Nov 12 18:16:03 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 12 18:16:03 2000 Subject: [thesite] ok, read this. References: <3A0F308F.B40D90F7@five2one.org> Message-ID: <3A0F31E0.4BAFC30@five2one.org> "a person with 4th grade spelling skills" wrote: > oh, ya. I had to recreate this mailing list to get it working. If you > were on a digest of this list, you'll have to change your options back > to you. err. that made about zero sense. If you were subscribed to this list(thesite) as a digest member, you're going to have to change your options to receive the digest version. Currently, all 60+ people on this list are getting messages as they are sent out. still truckin!! zooooooooooooom!!!! .djc. From elfur at hugvit.is Mon Nov 13 11:21:22 2000 From: elfur at hugvit.is (elfur at hugvit.is) Date: Mon Nov 13 11:21:22 2000 Subject: [thesite] Mentioning in .net November2000 issue Message-ID: Hey y'all, Nothing new here: we're mentioned on page 54 in November 2000 issue of .net - the browser archive as usual. However what struck me and made me write this comment is the text that follows the mention: This is the mention in it's whole: Browser archive http://browsers.evolt.org This interesting site lists over 100 different browsers. You wouldn't want to download them from here, as the site doesn't seem to have been updated for a while, but it's a good starting point for your own explorations. Makes me wonder, if we're doing everything we can in the new site to make everyone feel the latest additions of browsers. Just to make sure we won't get another comment like this one. Then again, if it so happens that the archive hasn't been updated lately, then of course we deserve it, and need to do something about it. And perhaps here is finally something that I can be of assistance with, now that I've got super duper connection (sic!) at work :o? the reading one rests : elfur ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : Elfur Logad?ttir : elfur at hugvit.is : GoPro-Landsteinar Group ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : Workers of the web :: evolt.org! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : Age is like a state of mind : If you don't mind, it don't matter ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 13 15:13:38 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 13 15:13:38 2000 Subject: [thesite] [Fwd: Re: [Admin] Mentioning in .net November2000 issue] Message-ID: <3A105990.FAC7E24F@oracular.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Admin] Mentioning in .net November2000 issue Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:12:10 -0600 From: "Daniel J. Cody" Reply-To: admin at lists.evolt.org To: admin at lists.evolt.org References: elfur at hugvit.is wrote: > > Hey y'all, > Nothing new here: we're mentioned on page 54 in November 2000 issue of .net > - the browser archive as usual. .net? as in microsoft .net ? > Then again, if it so happens that the archive hasn't been updated lately, > then of course we deserve it, and need to do something about it. And > perhaps here is finally something that I can be of assistance with, now > that I've got super duper connection (sic!) at work :o? I've never really put to much stock into anything the print media have to say. Most of the time(most i say) the people writing these articles are ones who can barely turn on thier computer.. also, i updated the archive yesterday with mozilla m18, and every couple weeks I add something there, so this person wasn't really paying attention/didnt care/likes to make broad generalizations. *shrug* .djc. ___________________________________________________ evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Mon Nov 13 15:27:03 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy) Date: Mon Nov 13 15:27:03 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltspotting... Message-ID: > .net? as in microsoft .net ? no, i think she means "dot net the internet magazine" they have a web site (of course) and the evolt browser archive is mentioned in a cross-browser article, a bit more favourably... if you want to get hold of older browsers, pay a visit to Evolt (http://www.evolt.org/) which keeps a useful archive of such things for you to download. http://www.netmag.co.uk/wb_details.asp?id=22664&ch=WB001 note that this will take people to the home page of the site, not the browser archive more evoltspotting -- http://www.newstrolls.com/ under Links you Must Have (way down the left column) rudy From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Mon Nov 13 15:33:27 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Mon Nov 13 15:33:27 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltspotting... References: Message-ID: <035901c04db9$1064bda0$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop> *plug* *plug* I sent them this a good while back: http://www.wpdfd.com/resources/Browsers.htm Unfortunately, they decided not to edit any of my email... just copy & paste. Hence the comment about their javascript on their "suggest a link" form. Wuchagonnado? -- mattwarden mattwarden.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rudy To: Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 4:28 PM Subject: [thesite] evoltspotting... > > .net? as in microsoft .net ? > > no, i think she means "dot net the internet magazine" > > they have a web site (of course) and the evolt browser archive is > mentioned in a cross-browser article, a bit more favourably... > > if you want to get hold of older browsers, pay a > visit to Evolt (http://www.evolt.org/) which keeps a > useful archive of such things for you to download. > > http://www.netmag.co.uk/wb_details.asp?id=22664&ch=WB001 > > note that this will take people to the home page of the site, not the > browser archive > > > more evoltspotting -- > > http://www.newstrolls.com/ > under Links you Must Have (way down the left column) > > > rudy > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Nov 13 15:51:09 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Nov 13 15:51:09 2000 Subject: [thesite] (Fwd) Re: [] Mentioning in .net November2000 issue Message-ID: <200011132151.eADLp4h05963@farmer.oracular.com> should have sent this here as well... ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "aardvark" To: admin at lists.evolt.org Date sent: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:28:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Admin] Mentioning in .net November2000 issue Priority: normal Send reply to: admin at lists.evolt.org > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > also, i updated the archive yesterday with mozilla m18, and every couple > weeks I add something there, so this person wasn't really paying > attention/didnt care/likes to make broad generalizations. i know the archive isn't all it could be, it's missing some odd versions here and there of IE and NN, but that's cuz i can't find them... i think the dude is looking at the dates on the directory listings (august 1999?) and assuming that nothing has been done... also, i think the dude forgets that some browsers don't every get past version 1 or 2, so that it looks like they've been sitting there without updates for a while... although at this point, i think dan uploads more than me, but that's due to time restraints on my end, and the fact that i have to double- FTP (once to here, and then to there)... yeah, we could be better, but i think the dude read the pages wrong... ___________________________________________________ evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. ------- End of forwarded message ------- From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 13 16:06:13 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 13 16:06:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltspotting... References: Message-ID: <3A1065E2.A2161640@oracular.com> These guys also broke off with Wired about the same time we did.. they have a pretty decent readership from what i understand, despite a less than easy interface.. JP Hackworth, one of thier contributers, is on thelist.. and he did a little interview with me and the newstrolls founder about Wired and our breaks from them a while back.. http://newstrolls.com/news/dev/hackworth/evolt.html .djc. rudy wrote: > more evoltspotting -- > > http://www.newstrolls.com/ > under Links you Must Have (way down the left column) From oliver at lineham.co.nz Mon Nov 13 17:46:18 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Mon Nov 13 17:46:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] re: assignments list updated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001114124551.02d61c00@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 11:53 7/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > http://members.evolt.org/marlene/evolt/assignments.html > >turn off style sheets before printing this page if running netscape 4.04 > >font-size: .9em is rendered as tiny skritchy lines that are totally >unreadable i'm using 4.05 and it looks fine. could you send me a screenshot (offlist probably)? >the really sad part is, i've been using fractional em units all over the >place myself, and never noticed this before same here .. ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com Mon Nov 13 18:49:37 2000 From: marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Mon Nov 13 18:49:37 2000 Subject: [thesite] re: assignments list updated Message-ID: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA616265BED@EXCHANGE> Uh, Ol., I fixed it as soon as I got Rudeboys message (removed the font size attribute from the style sheet). It was only fuxOred when Rudy went to print only in 4.04. Thanks, I think..., Marlene (o; > ---------- > From: Oliver Lineham > > At 11:53 7/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > > > http://members.evolt.org/marlene/evolt/assignments.html > > > >turn off style sheets before printing this page if running netscape 4.04 > > > >font-size: .9em is rendered as tiny skritchy lines that are totally > >unreadable > > i'm using 4.05 and it looks fine. could you send me a screenshot (offlist > > probably)? > > >the really sad part is, i've been using fractional em units all over the > >place myself, and never noticed this before > > same here .. > > From r937 at interlog.com Mon Nov 13 19:06:49 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Mon Nov 13 19:06:49 2000 Subject: [thesite] re: assignments list updated Message-ID: <01c04dd5$943ef2a0$0100007f@localhost> >> http://members.evolt.org/marlene/evolt/assignments.html >> >> turn off style sheets before printing this page >> if running netscape 4.04 >> >> font-size: .9em is rendered as tiny skritchy lines >> that are totally unreadable > > i'm using 4.05 and it looks fine. > could you send me a screenshot (offlist probably)? screenshot? of a printed page? heh heh see, i hardly ever print stuff, which is why i never noticed it before looks great on the screen... the printout is the problem... rude From oliver at lineham.co.nz Mon Nov 13 19:09:47 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Mon Nov 13 19:09:47 2000 Subject: [thesite] re: assignments list updated In-Reply-To: <01c04dd5$943ef2a0$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001114140928.00a4a690@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 19:55 13/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >screenshot? of a printed page? heh heh i don't have a printer. doesn't the problem show up on Print Preview? ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From djc at five2one.org Tue Nov 14 16:32:00 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 14 16:32:00 2000 Subject: [thesite] FYI test.evolt.org Message-ID: <3A11BD68.1040203@five2one.org> Is back up and rendering stuff properly.. just changed the parameter jeff's custom tag was looking for *back* to cgi.path_info in a couple places, and all is well.. So, dunno if it was on the TTDL in the first place, but we can take it off there now at any rate.. :) .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 14 18:38:12 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 14 18:38:12 2000 Subject: [thesite] Last 5 articles from thelist on the front page.. Message-ID: <3A11DAFB.7030906@oracular.com> another FYI - just changed the URL mapping of the (almost done) new archives. it is now using the 'new' way of doing it that we started about 3 months ago, replacing ?'s and &'s in the URL string with /'s .. this lets robots/spiders index us. so, its linked off the frontpage, so the spiders can start indexing the 'new' archives.. the new url looks something like this: http://lists.evolt.org/thelist/readMessage.cfm/message/47462 may or may not get this done on the browser archive yet tonite.. (also, the 'last 5' thing should be updating again, had to downgrade to 4.5.1 sp1 to fix the last thing they broke in sp2) the only thing from making these 'new' archives into the permanent ones is the lack of date sorting i currently have.(and have been stuck on for months..) thankfully, I do have the date field saved in a string format in a seperate column in the DB.. so i can hopefully get that when jeff and rudy are here this weekend.. lemme know if i broke anything else, or something doesn't work :) .djc. From r937 at interlog.com Tue Nov 14 20:04:51 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Nov 14 20:04:51 2000 Subject: [thesite] Last 5 articles from thelist on the front page.. Message-ID: <01c04ea7$a2f14640$e0d5059a@default> > may or may not get this done on the browser archive yet tonite.. hey dan, what is the difference (old style) between http://browsers.evolt.org/?sexy=yes&swinging=yes&dir=navigator/ and http://browsers.evolt.org/?dir=navigator&sexy=yes&swinging=yes/ the second one doesn't "work" because it goes to the main browser.evolt.org page i'd have thought syntactically they'd be the same i guess it doesn't matter when we go to the "new style" right? rudy From marlene at digitizethis.com Tue Nov 14 21:06:01 2000 From: marlene at digitizethis.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 14 21:06:01 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating Message-ID: Problem: People coming to our site will likely use our search feature, which currently searches articles. However, those visitors are potentially missing a huge chunk of our available resources in the way of our mailing list. Not that you can't go to the discussion list home and search from there, but I think there may be a good number of people who would never think of that. It isn't so user friendly. Possible solutions: * We figure a way make the search feature search both articles and the discussion list archives. * We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: - articles - thelist (or maybe "emails") - both * We don't care. Another totally separate idea... I know we plan to rate articles according to user votes. Do we also want to allow the authors to rate articles according to whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced level? This could be done in the article submission phase. Forgive me if these were already brought up previously (like over the summer months). Marlene From erika at seastorm.com Tue Nov 14 21:35:17 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Tue Nov 14 21:35:17 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a user... I like this: >* We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: > - articles > - thelist (or maybe "emails") > - both I like this: >I know we plan to rate articles according to user votes. But I don't understand the point of this: >Do we also want to allow the authors to rate articles according to >whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced level? This >could be done in the article submission phase. Erika erika at seastorm.com From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 14 21:41:42 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 14 21:41:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >As a user... > >I like this: > >>* We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: >> - articles >> - thelist (or maybe "emails") >> - both Yay. I think this could use some feedback from Isaac and Adrian (among others who will be at the codefest). >I like this: > >>I know we plan to rate articles according to user votes. > >But I don't understand the point of this: > >>Do we also want to allow the authors to rate articles according to >>whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced level? This >>could be done in the article submission phase. I meant rate the article as appropriate to beginner, intermediate level, or advanced web folk. Is this worth considering? Marlene From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 14 22:01:14 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 14 22:01:14 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating References: Message-ID: <3A1209AC.434DB69C@oracular.com> Marlene Bruce wrote: > * We figure a way make the search feature search both articles and > the discussion list archives. > * We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: > - articles > - thelist (or maybe "emails") > - both Good call 'Nuh. This was actually the driving force behind me getting thelist posts into a DB. The drop box would just specifiy a different verity collection, so it shouldn't be a prob.. Can you mark it on the TTDL for us? thanks :) .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 14 23:48:23 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 14 23:48:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] new thing for TTDL Message-ID: <3A1222D5.E1600413@oracular.com> added by me, assigned to me added a threaded mechanism for our comments on articles. and lets see if we can make it a bit wider. some of my longer comments(some would say rants) that i've posted lately in the comments about mozilla make the scroll just a bit long. thanks. .djc. From oliver at lineham.co.nz Tue Nov 14 23:59:52 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Tue Nov 14 23:59:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001115185924.01816f20@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 22:05 14/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >* We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: > - articles > - thelist (or maybe "emails") > - both surely two checkboxes would be more appropriate (there will likely be other things to search in future, such as the tips db). ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 15 00:05:03 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 15 00:05:03 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. Message-ID: <3A1226B1.2055CF46@oracular.com> or howeverthefuckthey'respelled :) Ok, I got Jeff coming into Chicago at midnight on thursday. Rudy, whats your itinerary-thing? Seb, you're out for sure, sorry man.. maybe next time :) Matt H. if you can come into milwaukee anytime friday, lemme know, i'll be there. Anyone else.. we've got walkera and adrian that are going to be available on ICQ that day for sure.. we could use some more for general help/testing.. anyone? my ICQ is 5119011 - lemme know. we for sure need more testers. :) gracias! .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 15 00:07:44 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 15 00:07:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating References: <4.2.0.58.20001115185924.01816f20@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <3A12275E.DA9EFB50@oracular.com> Oliver Lineham wrote: > > At 22:05 14/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > >* We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: > > - articles > > - thelist (or maybe "emails") > > - both > > surely two checkboxes would be more appropriate (there will likely be other > things to search in future, such as the tips db). good idea, but would more than two checkboxes really fit where we have the (first) searchbox on the front page right now? may take up too much space.. how aboutthis: Search: articles mail archives tips all evolt ? .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 15 00:15:03 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 15 00:15:03 2000 Subject: [thesite] Last 5 articles from thelist on the front page.. References: <01c04ea7$a2f14640$e0d5059a@default> Message-ID: <3A122915.3C733C29@oracular.com> rudy wrote: > hey dan, what is the difference (old style) between > > http://browsers.evolt.org/?sexy=yes&swinging=yes&dir=navigator/ > http://browsers.evolt.org/?dir=navigator&sexy=yes&swinging=yes/ > > i guess it doesn't matter when we go to the "new style" right? no.. tomorrow i'm re-writing the URL's on the browser archive anyways :) .djc. From oliver at lineham.co.nz Wed Nov 15 00:16:30 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Wed Nov 15 00:16:30 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: <3A12275E.DA9EFB50@oracular.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001115185924.01816f20@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001115191335.018268f0@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 00:04 15/11/2000 -0600, you wrote: > > surely two checkboxes would be more appropriate (there will likely be other > > things to search in future, such as the tips db). >good idea, but would more than two checkboxes really fit where we have >the (first) searchbox on the front page right now? may take up too much >space.. you're right, but i was thinking of a dedicated search page with checkboxes for fine-control of searches (could also check whether to search comments). the search box that appears on all other pages is probably best a drop-down like you said, or maybe even just a text box alone. ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 15 00:19:41 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 15 00:19:41 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating References: <4.2.0.58.20001115185924.01816f20@mail.paradise.net.nz> <4.2.0.58.20001115191335.018268f0@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <3A122A2B.39B51312@oracular.com> Oliver Lineham wrote: > you're right, but i was thinking of a dedicated search page with checkboxes > for fine-control of searches (could also check whether to search comments). true. maybe we should add an 'advanced search' for the multiple checkboxes. .djc. From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Nov 15 01:07:25 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Wed Nov 15 01:07:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: <3A122A2B.39B51312@oracular.com> Message-ID: djc &
    , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Daniel J. Cody : : true. maybe we should add an 'advanced search' : for the multiple checkboxes. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ we already have an advanced search page: http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/s/search/ .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Wed Nov 15 13:54:51 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Wed Nov 15 13:54:51 2000 Subject: [thesite] Last 5 articles from thelist on the front page.. References: <01c04ea7$a2f14640$e0d5059a@default> Message-ID: <001501c04f3d$8ccb31a0$aaee00cf@mwardenlaptop> > hey dan, what is the difference (old style) between > > http://browsers.evolt.org/?sexy=yes&swinging=yes&dir=navigator/ > > and > > http://browsers.evolt.org/?dir=navigator&sexy=yes&swinging=yes/ > > the second one doesn't "work" because it goes to the main browser.evolt.org > page > > i'd have thought syntactically they'd be the same Unless the last / is part of the directory... wanna try: http://browsers.evolt.org/?dir=navigator/&sexy=yes&swinging=yes -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Wed Nov 15 14:04:47 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Wed Nov 15 14:04:47 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: <3A1226B1.2055CF46@oracular.com> Message-ID: <009d01c04f3e$f512f1c0$aaee00cf@mwardenlaptop> > Anyone else.. we've got walkera and adrian that are going to be > available on ICQ that day for sure.. we could use some more for general > help/testing.. anyone? my ICQ is 5119011 - lemme know. we for sure need > more testers. :) Count me in via ICQ, Dan. Can you send a reminder out to thesite on Sat. (or at least to me)? I'll be running around packing for England, but I'll be able to find some spare time to take down the test.evolt.org server ;-) -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From isaac at members.evolt.org Wed Nov 15 19:44:08 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Wed Nov 15 19:44:08 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: <009d01c04f3e$f512f1c0$aaee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: > Count me in via ICQ, Dan. Can you send a reminder out to thesite > on Sat. (or > at least to me)? I'll be running around packing for England, but > I'll be able > to find some spare time to take down the test.evolt.org server ;-) the warning will be more or less like that of last time. jeff or rudy posting something to admin about how drunk dan is. ;p ok, seriously, +1 - post a reminder a few hours before you need the testing help, and if i'm around, i'm around. but it's gonna be a 33+ degree weekend (37degrees is 100F. 33 is probably a little bit below that) here, so i plan on being outside. i From ronwhite at lists.evolt.org Wed Nov 15 21:45:36 2000 From: ronwhite at lists.evolt.org (Ron White) Date: Wed Nov 15 21:45:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 86.4 to be exact :-) (9/5 * C) + 32 = F (F - 32)*5/9 = C Its going to be 33 where they are as well Ron From isaac at members.evolt.org Wed Nov 15 22:20:23 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Wed Nov 15 22:20:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 86.4 to be exact :-) > > (9/5 * C) + 32 = F > > (F - 32)*5/9 = C > > Its going to be 33 where they are as well fuck. 33f. that's like 0c. the only times i've ever been in 0c weather is occasionally in the middle of winter. at night. the lowest i've *ever* experienced during the day is maybe 9-13c. i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys survive?!? you haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? my wife complains if it goes below 22c (about 72f)... i (sitting in shorts with the aircon running) From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 15 22:40:23 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 15 22:40:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: Message-ID: <3A136468.66B7B853@oracular.com> isaac wrote: > fuck. 33f. that's like 0c. the only times i've ever been in 0c weather is > occasionally in the middle of winter. at night. the lowest i've *ever* > experienced during the day is maybe 9-13c. > > i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys survive?!? you > haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? it being so cold right now is a bit of an anomolie.. what is adelaide's latitude/longitude? about 35? S 145? E? we're about 44? 15' N 88? 23' W here..well not about, thats pretty much right on. you guys have a closer proximity to the eqautor than we do.. so it gets colder here.. poor elfur, she's about another 20? higher than us.. it *never* gets warm up there ;) From sgd at ti3.com Thu Nov 16 10:12:19 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu Nov 16 10:12:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F74D@gate.ti3.com> > i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys > survive?!? you > haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? > > my wife complains if it goes below 22c (about 72f)... we're not pansies. I've got one word for your wife: Layer. heh sgd From elfur at lists.evolt.org Thu Nov 16 12:13:47 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Thu Nov 16 12:13:47 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: <3A136468.66B7B853@oracular.com> Message-ID: <008901c04ff9$b3b4de80$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Daniel J. Cody" | poor elfur, she's about another 20? higher than us.. it *never* gets | warm up there ;) It does too !!!! :-) 64?N ~20W It's "only" ~ -2c now - but it went below -10c the other night (not during the day though) It doesn't get much colder than -10 (that is pretty cold here actually). The problem is that the wind might be pretty strong at the same moment - hence it'd feel like a lot more than lousy -10?c and yes, we do have days that go over 20?c (few, but they happen). on the east coast it even happens more often (but then it also snows more there and the winters are colder, so you prefer the west coast) And Isaac we survive by going to externalland at least once each year :-) the arctic one rests From elfur at lists.evolt.org Thu Nov 16 12:57:50 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Thu Nov 16 12:57:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: <3A136468.66B7B853@oracular.com> <008901c04ff9$b3b4de80$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: <00e501c04fff$db4d60b0$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Elfur Logadottir" | And Isaac we survive by going to externalland at least once | each year :-) that should have been external-land the numb one rests From mwarden at mattwarden.com Thu Nov 16 13:54:35 2000 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Thu Nov 16 13:54:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] CF Error on thesite Message-ID: <032501c05006$a7af8e20$aaee00cf@mwardenlaptop> see: http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=591 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information Cannot find CFML template for custom tag FU2A. ColdFusion attempted looking in the tree of installed custom tags but did not find a custom tag with this name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CF_FU2A), occupying document position (5:1) to (5:9). Date/Time: Thu Nov 16 13:55:32 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) Remote Address: 207.0.238.151 HTTP Referer: http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=591 Query String: menu=8&cid=591 -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From dcody at oracular.com Thu Nov 16 13:59:48 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Nov 16 13:59:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] CF Error on thesite References: <032501c05006$a7af8e20$aaee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: <3A143CB4.5000503@oracular.com> shit. my fault.. overwrote the wrong application.cfm while i'm working on the browser archive.. should be good to go now.. thanks for the quick heads up matt :) .djc. Warden, Matt wrote: > see: http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=591 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > > Error Occurred While Processing Request > Error Diagnostic Information > Cannot find CFML template for custom tag FU2A. ColdFusion attempted looking in > the tree of installed custom tags but did not find a custom tag with this > name. > > > The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of > (CF_FU2A), occupying document position (5:1) to (5:9). > > > Date/Time: Thu Nov 16 13:55:32 2000 > Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) > Remote Address: 207.0.238.151 > HTTP Referer: http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=591 > Query String: menu=8&cid=591 > > > -- > mattwarden > mattwarden.com > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From dcody at oracular.com Thu Nov 16 14:40:03 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Nov 16 14:40:03 2000 Subject: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. Message-ID: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> If some of you get a chance, can you run around http://browsers.evolt.org a couple times for me and see if you spot any errors/wack shit? Just finished the URL rewritting(buh-bye swinging=yes&sexy=yes :( ) for easier search engine indexing, and want to make sure there aren't any bugs.. thanks. .djc. (is ns6 pputting two dots up there? ie: ..djc. ? or is it just me) From joshua at alphashop.net Thu Nov 16 14:49:53 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Thu Nov 16 14:49:53 2000 Subject: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. References: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> Message-ID: <02df01c0500f$41804230$0300a8c0@alphashop.com> Looks really good. Are you noticing a time-hit using this url scheme? -joshua From dcody at oracular.com Thu Nov 16 15:00:54 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Nov 16 15:00:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. References: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> <02df01c0500f$41804230$0300a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <3A144B06.9020108@oracular.com> Not yet.. The one thing that slows the archive down is the use of which is really, really slow. This tag we're using here on the arhcive and list archives(new ones) is the same tag we'll be using on the new site(and are currently using on test.evolt.org).. jeff wrote it, and its pretty tight so hopefully we don't see any performance issues.. jeff, what train are you taking tomorrow to milwaukee? just wanna know what time i should pick you up.. rudy, we'll meet you at the airport at 3pm :) bring winter jackets. :( .djc. Joshua OIson wrote: > Looks really good. Are you noticing a time-hit using this url scheme? From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Thu Nov 16 15:01:42 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Thu Nov 16 15:01:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. References: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> <02df01c0500f$41804230$0300a8c0@alphashop.com> Message-ID: <003401c05010$16281bc0$baee00cf@mwardenlaptop> I noticed that too. Didn't know for sure if it was because of this change (haven't been to the archive in a while), but I did think to myself: "wonder if it's supposed to be this slow..." -- mattwarden mattwarden.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua OIson To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. > Looks really good. Are you noticing a time-hit using this url scheme? > > -joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From joshua at alphashop.net Thu Nov 16 15:13:51 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Thu Nov 16 15:13:51 2000 Subject: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. References: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> <02df01c0500f$41804230$0300a8c0@alphashop.com> <3A144B06.9020108@oracular.com> Message-ID: <02ef01c05012$9d889020$0300a8c0@alphashop.com> He already left for the airport, but I called him for you. He will try to be in Milwaukee before or at 3 to hook up with Rudy. Give him a call on his cell, email me if you don't know it, if you need to talk to him directly. -joshua P.S. He's taking a kick-butt jacket. And, ask him about that cold-weather dress shirt. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] new archive URL formatting.. > Not yet.. The one thing that slows the archive down is the use of > which is really, really slow. This tag we're using here on > the arhcive and list archives(new ones) is the same tag we'll be using > on the new site(and are currently using on test.evolt.org).. jeff wrote > it, and its pretty tight so hopefully we don't see any performance issues.. > > jeff, what train are you taking tomorrow to milwaukee? just wanna know > what time i should pick you up.. rudy, we'll meet you at the airport at > 3pm :) > > bring winter jackets. :( > > .djc. > > Joshua OIson wrote: > > > Looks really good. Are you noticing a time-hit using this url scheme? > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From dcody at oracular.com Thu Nov 16 16:25:15 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Nov 16 16:25:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] testing. delete. unless you have 209.83.86.156 i nyour email header :) Message-ID: <3A145ECA.7060407@oracular.com> got a new ultra 5 and just put it in the mail relay pool and wanna see if MG picks it up.. if you have said IP address in your header, could you cut and paste your headers and send them back to me? thankie .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Thu Nov 16 16:51:42 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Nov 16 16:51:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] off to milwaukee.. Message-ID: <3A1464D0.90909@oracular.com> off to milwaukee tonite to pick up jeff and rudy tomorrow.. if anything blows up, my cell number is somewhere in the admin archive.. we'll all be in touch tomorrow :) .djc. From mwarden at mattwarden.com Thu Nov 16 21:33:06 2000 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Thu Nov 16 21:33:06 2000 Subject: [thesite] lists.evolt.org error Message-ID: <009801c05046$a73253c0$9bee00cf@mwardenlaptop> hmmm... is it me? Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while attempting to establish a connection to the server. The most likely cause of this problem is that the server is not currently running. Verify that the server is running and restart it if necessary. Unix error number 111 occurred: Connection refused -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From marlene at lists.evolt.org Thu Nov 16 22:18:41 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Thu Nov 16 22:18:41 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: <3A1226B1.2055CF46@oracular.com> References: <3A1226B1.2055CF46@oracular.com> Message-ID: >Anyone else.. we've got walkera and adrian that are going to be >available on ICQ that day for sure.. we could use some more for general >help/testing.. anyone? my ICQ is 5119011 - lemme know. we for sure need >more testers. :) 1. If you see me on ICQ, then I'm available for testing. I'll keep an eye out for email (which doesn't seem to be arriving at work again, so I dunno). 2. Don't expect to see me on ICQ, I've got a busy rest-of-the-week/weekend. But just in case...25960815. Marlene From marlene at lists.evolt.org Thu Nov 16 22:18:46 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Thu Nov 16 22:18:46 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >djc &
      , > >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: From: Daniel J. Cody >: >: true. maybe we should add an 'advanced search' >: for the multiple checkboxes. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >we already have an advanced search page: > >http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/s/search/ Okay, so we need to modify the drop down list on the advanced search page to be checkboxes, right? Will we want to list the centers individually, in addition to everything else? How do we want to break this down? I'm asking so I can update the assignments page accurately. Ta, Marlene From oliver at lineham.co.nz Thu Nov 16 22:41:14 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Thu Nov 16 22:41:14 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001117172840.020dfcf0@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 23:25 15/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >>http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/s/search/ > >Okay, so we need to modify the drop down list on the advanced search page >to be checkboxes, right? Will we want to list the centers individually, in >addition to everything else? How do we want to break this down? i'm thinking a page something like: Keywords: [textbox] Search: [ ] Thelist archives [ ] Tips archive [ ] Member profiles [x] Articles [ ] Category name 1 [ ] Category name 2 etc ... [x] All categories [x] Search article comments in these categories too [ ] All of evolt.org (i hope you all are using fixed-width text, eh) this would be a real grand-daddy search page and probably a bitch to code. it'd probably start off small (just articles, comments, archive). member profiles is a bit far down the track too, i think ;) also note i only put Articles at the end since the large number of categories we will eventually have might push the other options (like tips) too far down the page. plus i'm sure someone's going to have some usability issues to raise about such a search page. all i know is that a page like this is what works for me, and (i suspect) most of our "professional" psychographic.
    ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From dcody at oracular.com Fri Nov 17 18:57:13 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Nov 17 18:57:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] testing something. Message-ID: <3A15D300.D67919EE@oracular.com> thanks.. From dcody at oracular.com Fri Nov 17 19:26:08 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Nov 17 19:26:08 2000 Subject: [thesite] lists.evolt.org error References: <009801c05046$a73253c0$9bee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: <3A15D9C2.57D02507@oracular.com> was working on this durning the morning.. shouldn't have been down for more than 30 minutes, but thanks for the heads up regardless .djc. "Warden, Matt" wrote: > > hmmm... is it me? > > Error Occurred While Processing Request From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Nov 18 04:30:57 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Nov 18 04:30:57 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118094820.0373a510@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 03:35 15/11/00, Erika Meyer wrote: >I like this: > >>* We provide people with a drop down to select what they want to search: >> - articles >> - thelist (or maybe "emails") >> - both mmmm, checkboxen Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOhZQh3HoHnCoNczLEQKGZQCfUNLmuwo0sP4SmQxKQEp2O2VEHOQAn2LB Ph2oHDDmIm0XWd2EavKYyZAb =tH4C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Nov 18 04:31:04 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Nov 18 04:31:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] expanded search & more rating In-Reply-To: <3A122A2B.39B51312@oracular.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001115185924.01816f20@mail.paradise.net.nz> <4.2.0.58.20001115191335.018268f0@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095017.0373d560@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 06:16 15/11/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > > you're right, but i was thinking of a dedicated search page with checkboxes > > for fine-control of searches (could also check whether to search comments). > >true. maybe we should add an 'advanced search' for the multiple >checkboxes. +1 fwiw, checkboxes are there specifically to allow multiple selections. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOhZRGXHoHnCoNczLEQIeiQCgmr7nq0wx+YSAIyGlVSw9RmJSQHgAnj+y DJgopzxmxHy5cNbXJrYlwgII =XBap -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Nov 18 04:31:11 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Nov 18 04:31:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095347.0373e360@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 04:22 16/11/00, isaac wrote: >i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys survive?!? you >haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? Double glazing. Central Heating. Jumpers (derived from sheep or fleecy artificial fibres). Whisky. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOhZR43HoHnCoNczLEQLnzACfdIWD8JoCV3t6oYNpwR8Yh3J5IQMAn1M5 /8xNPcyA8ozNmabGLu6OURCJ =UKOk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Nov 18 04:31:16 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Nov 18 04:31:16 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. In-Reply-To: <3A136468.66B7B853@oracular.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095531.0373e050@members.evolt.org> At 04:36 16/11/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >it being so cold right now is a bit of an anomolie.. what is adelaide's >latitude/longitude? about 35? S 145? E? >we're about 44? 15' N 88? 23' W here..well not about, thats pretty much >right on. > >you guys have a closer proximity to the eqautor than we do.. so it gets >colder here.. You've also got the lack of a nearby ocean, so temperatures get much more extreme (the ocean doesn't gain or lose heat quickly, so it has a damping effect). That's why the MidWest is an oven in the summer as well as a deepfreeze in the winter. >poor elfur, she's about another 20? higher than us.. it *never* gets >warm up there ;) Except in volcanic springs. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Nov 18 04:31:24 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Nov 18 04:31:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] new archive URL formatting.. In-Reply-To: <3A144621.6070808@oracular.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095813.03734eb0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 20:40 16/11/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >If some of you get a chance, can you run around http://browsers.evolt.org >a couple times for me and see if you spot any errors/wack shit? > >Just finished the URL rewritting(buh-bye swinging=yes&sexy=yes :( ) for >easier search engine indexing, and want to make sure there aren't any bugs.. This will be part of the great URL forwarding project too? (ie so people visiting the old URLs cos sites have put links to us get redirected to the new ones) Cheers Martin >.djc. >(is ns6 pputting two dots up there? ie: ..djc. ? or is it just me) Nope. Clean your monitor ;-) ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOhZS/HHoHnCoNczLEQIyAACfan3xHpDExGMKlvohvMup3UCJWlMAoO+B M2M3Zr+Oq43yFdcylY2rPNmJ =ZQcL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From seb at admin.evolt.org Sun Nov 19 12:00:14 2000 From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb) Date: Sun Nov 19 12:00:14 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095347.0373e360@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <01bd01c05252$9624e490$1700000a@issntdev57> ----- Original Message ----- From: "martin burns" To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > At 04:22 16/11/00, isaac wrote: > >i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys survive?!? you > >haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? > > Double glazing. Central Heating. Jumpers (derived from sheep or fleecy > artificial fibres). Whisky. > > Cheers > Martin > > ________________ > Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant > tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 > http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 > http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use > Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB > > iQA/AwUBOhZR43HoHnCoNczLEQLnzACfdIWD8JoCV3t6oYNpwR8Yh3J5IQMAn1M5 > /8xNPcyA8ozNmabGLu6OURCJ > =UKOk > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From seb at admin.evolt.org Sun Nov 19 12:00:55 2000 From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb) Date: Sun Nov 19 12:00:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] codefest 2.0 itineraries.. References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001118095347.0373e360@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <01be01c05252$af13cc00$1700000a@issntdev57> > >i know that i ask this all the time, but how do you guys survive?!? you > >haven't even hit winter 'for real' yet, right? > > Double glazing. Central Heating. Jumpers (derived from sheep or fleecy > artificial fibres). Whisky. Tequila. Counterstrike. Chocolate. *I'm glad to be home* Seb. From oliver at lineham.co.nz Mon Nov 20 05:02:25 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Mon Nov 20 05:02:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001121000056.00ae8200@mail.paradise.net.nz> hey, i notice on the test site the urls to articles are now: http://test.evolt.org/article/Pick_one_standards_or_a_browser/25/3696/index.cfm is that a permanent thing? i assume the article var is ignored anyway. is it just there to make the links look more meaningful or what? just wondering.
____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 11:57:01 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 11:57:01 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles References: <4.2.0.58.20001121000056.00ae8200@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <3A1965AD.1040404@oracular.com> Oliver Lineham wrote: > hey, i notice on the test site the urls to articles are now: > > http://test.evolt.org/article/Pick_one_standards_or_a_browser/25/3696/index.cfm > > > is that a permanent thing? i assume the article var is ignored > anyway. is it just there to make the links look more meaningful or what? yes, its permanent. we did it for a couple reaons. 1.) looks better than passing variables on the right 2.) index spiders just *LOVE* it when there are keywords in the URL, as opposed to just the body or meta tags. they give higher relevance when there are keywords in the URL as well. this is the super sexy swinging URL formatting we were talking about. If you cruise around teh site you'll notice that most of the URL's now look 'real', not just article ones. the only ones that dont are form submissions, which robots don't follow anyways. more to come soon.. .djc. From matt at haughey.com Mon Nov 20 12:52:00 2000 From: matt at haughey.com (Matthew Haughey) Date: Mon Nov 20 12:52:00 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <3A1965AD.1040404@oracular.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001121000056.00ae8200@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001120105013.031d59c8@lepen.pair.com> I just got this error upon logging into test.evolt: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the expression: IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) AND FindNoCase(url.uuid, cookie.evolt_login) Error near line 20, column 40. Parameter 1 of function IsDefined which is now "00087BF4-C3BD-19A2-B4FA569BD153DCF2" must be a syntactically valid variable name The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFELSEIF), occupying document position (20:1) to (20:85) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/login/act_checkcookie.cfm.Date/Time: Mon Nov 20 12:51:54 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) Remote Address: 207.44.174.231 From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 12:56:00 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 12:56:00 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001120105013.031d59c8@lepen.pair.com> Message-ID: This: IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) Should be this: IsDefined("cookie.evolt_login") Take Care, Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Haughey > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 12:52 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thesite] login error > > > I just got this error upon logging into test.evolt: > > Error Occurred While Processing Request > Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the > expression: IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) AND FindNoCase(url.uuid, > cookie.evolt_login) > > Error near line 20, column 40. Parameter 1 of function IsDefined which is > now "00087BF4-C3BD-19A2-B4FA569BD153DCF2" must be a syntactically valid > variable name The error occurred while processing an element with > a general > identifier of (CFELSEIF), occupying document position (20:1) to > (20:85) in > the template file > /home/evolttest/public_html/test/login/act_checkcookie.cfm.Date/Time: Mon > Nov 20 12:51:54 2000 > Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) > Remote Address: 207.44.174.231 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 13:03:44 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:03:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] Codefest 2 wrapup. Message-ID: <3A19754F.7090507@oracular.com> Quickie wrapup to get everyone up to speed.. Friday night we got back to oshkosh(after dan pulled another idiot move of leaving his mobile phone at the airport(one hour diversion ensues)), kinda sat around for a bit, caught up with eachother.. Rudy came bearing liquor and find canadian maple syrup. Lacking pancakes, rudy cracked a bottle of jamacian rum. I asked him what he wanted to mix it with and he responded, "Ice". heh. Rudy proceeded to get sauced before we even got to the bar, where jeff and i proceeded to get sauced while rudy, coming down at this point, switched to water :) Jen stopped in to say hi and had a couple beers with us too. Saturday, we got to work at the early(we didnt get started at codefest 1 till about 5pm on saturday due to hangovers, etc.) 1pm, and proceeded to put together a to do list, based on shit from the TTLD list, which 'Nuh kept for us. First thing on the TDL was change all LONG datatypes in the DB to CLOB's so we could search and do cool shit with them. This proceeded to kick our collective ass'es for about two hours at which point we decided to move onto something that we could actually make progress on. Jeff and I started with the conversion to the SSURLS(Super Sexy URL Scheme), basically rewriting the URL scheme we put in place at codefest 1. Rudy went to work on cleaning up the DB's and getting them to the point where we could merge our test database(which has shitloads of new and improved features, better structure, etc) with our production one. This turned out to be not a small task as well. About 11pm Jen showed up, ready to take us out, and about 12pm we got to the bar, had a couple drinks, talked, smoked, and went to bed. Jeff stayed up while we were all sleeping on my PC and kept coding shit in till 4am. At 10am we awoke to snow and went back to work. I found out that a sports car really doesn't handle for a shit in snow, and pondered if i'd ever see my z3 or girlfriend again as both took off to milwaukee, leaving 3 computer geeks, a dodge spirit, a fucked database, and 4 hours to get to the airport 90 minutes away. We got a couple things done but started sweating when the DB wasn't fixed by 1:45(rudy's plane leaving at 3:30) and we still had 90 minutes of driving on shitty roads to do. Thankefully everything appeared to work(Dan: "We forgot to dump the sequences before the import!" Rudy: "Well lets hope *that* doesn't fuck something up" naturally, not dumping the sequences being the one true thing that could fuck up the DB.. heh) After an intensive 90 second check to make sure we still had data integrity and that shit, for the most part, still worked, we bailed the fuck outa' dodge in a mad rush to get Rudy's plane before it left for the Great White North without him. Apparently, we made it before his plane did.(grr) So, what did we get done? - SSURLS which will draw lots and lots of spiders in to index our site. - made some progress on the 'members' pages - cleaned up the DB a ton, and synched out new DB Structure/data with the old one(both test.evolt.org and evolt.org are pulling of the same DB now, which is nice) - config'd it so you don't need cookies enabled to do a lot of shit. - made a *lot* of performance fixes. The new site really flies, from an application level. - fixed the grr'bot mostly(jeff?) - took out old centers - added new centers(Usability and Web Business)(someone should probably write something up on the site about these new centers and what they're for) - got all admin shit working(as far as adding/editing/approving/deleting articles) - umm. i'm sure there's more, having a hard time thinking off all these things right now. Things we *didnt* get done? - User defined style sheets(didnt even touch it) - member pages(partly) - convert LONG -> CLOB's - converting the Old URL's into New URL's(for people that have specific articles bookmarked, etc) - lots of other shit i can't think of. Things that we *need* to get done?(We've decided that we may not have all new features totally implemented by the 14th of Dec, so we're going to cut the fat and go live with what we can, adding the things we can't get done as we get them done) - Convert old url -> new url(this is my job in the next couple days) - convert long -> clob(my job as well) - Rudy and Seth need to rap about thetips DB strucutre(thats up to you two) - Fix a lot of smaller, annoying bugs. So, jeff is going to be busy with work as soon as he gets back. I'm going to be working on the above two items. We could *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALY* use some help finding, identifying and documenting bugs on the new site. If we don't have to find them and shit, we can spend the time fixing them. There are 60+ people on thesite list, so if everyone of you could find just *one* bug, we could have all the problems identified and then get to fixing them. This is pretty important, and I'm asking for everyones help :) So, to sum up, start testing that new site! Let us know what needs to be fixed/addressed by sending an email to thesite at lists.evolt.org with [bug] in the Subject field. I've got a special filter set up to filter them into a bug folder so i can fix them faster. So hammer the smurf out of http://test.evolt.org - try everything you can think of to break it, and let us know when you do. Don't worry about fucking up the DB somehow as we're back on the test one again for testing purposes. Let me know if anyone has questions or comments or anything like that.. Thanks bunches :) .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 13:09:50 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:09:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error References: Message-ID: <3A1976BE.8010506@oracular.com> ok, persistant logins are fixed now.. barely get the initial message out and you guys are already finding problems!!! woooooooooohoooo! thanks guys :) .djc. Seth Bienek wrote: > This: > IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) > > Should be this: > IsDefined("cookie.evolt_login") > > Take Care, > > Seth > > ------------------------------ > Seth Bienek > Solutions Development Manager > Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. > 972.455.7294 tel > 972.404.9754 fax > ------------------------------ > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org >> [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Haughey >> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 12:52 PM >> To: thesite at lists.evolt.org >> Subject: [thesite] login error >> >> >> I just got this error upon logging into test.evolt: >> >> Error Occurred While Processing Request >> Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the >> expression: IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) AND FindNoCase(url.uuid, >> cookie.evolt_login) >> >> Error near line 20, column 40. Parameter 1 of function IsDefined which is >> now "00087BF4-C3BD-19A2-B4FA569BD153DCF2" must be a syntactically valid >> variable name The error occurred while processing an element with >> a general >> identifier of (CFELSEIF), occupying document position (20:1) to >> (20:85) in >> the template file >> /home/evolttest/public_html/test/login/act_checkcookie.cfm.Date/Time: Mon >> Nov 20 12:51:54 2000 >> Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) >> Remote Address: 207.44.174.231 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ >> and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: >> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From amanda at gawow.com Mon Nov 20 13:10:36 2000 From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:10:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] RE: [Admin] Codefest 2 wrapup. In-Reply-To: <3A19754F.7090507@oracular.com> Message-ID: You guys fucking rock! I'll help debug. You got a deadline on that? - amanda > -----Original Message----- > From: admin-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:admin-admin at lists.evolt.org]On > Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 11:03 AM > To: admin at lists.evolt.org; thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [Admin] Codefest 2 wrapup. > > > Quickie wrapup to get everyone up to speed.. > > Friday night we got back to oshkosh(after dan pulled another idiot move > of leaving his mobile phone at the airport(one hour diversion ensues)), > kinda sat around for a bit, caught up with eachother.. Rudy came bearing > liquor and find canadian maple syrup. > > Lacking pancakes, rudy cracked a bottle of jamacian rum. I asked him > what he wanted to mix it with and he responded, "Ice". heh. > > Rudy proceeded to get sauced before we even got to the bar, where jeff > and i proceeded to get sauced while rudy, coming down at this point, > switched to water :) Jen stopped in to say hi and had a couple beers > with us too. Saturday, we got to work at the early(we didnt get started > at codefest 1 till about 5pm on saturday due to hangovers, etc.) 1pm, > and proceeded to put together a to do list, based on shit from the TTLD > list, which 'Nuh kept for us. > > First thing on the TDL was change all LONG datatypes in the DB to CLOB's > so we could search and do cool shit with them. This proceeded to kick > our collective ass'es for about two hours at which point we decided to > move onto something that we could actually make progress on. Jeff and I > started with the conversion to the SSURLS(Super Sexy URL Scheme), > basically rewriting the URL scheme we put in place at codefest 1. Rudy > went to work on cleaning up the DB's and getting them to the point where > we could merge our test database(which has shitloads of new and improved > features, better structure, etc) with our production one. This turned > out to be not a small task as well. > > "Hey, thats pretty cool's", head scratching, "OOPS's", "Hey guys, I just > wiped our production database!", dry eyes, and coding here> > > About 11pm Jen showed up, ready to take us out, and about 12pm we got to > the bar, had a couple drinks, talked, smoked, and went to bed. Jeff > stayed up while we were all sleeping on my PC and kept coding shit in > till 4am. > > At 10am we awoke to snow and went back to work. I found out that a > sports car really doesn't handle for a shit in snow, and pondered if i'd > ever see my z3 or girlfriend again as both took off to milwaukee, > leaving 3 computer geeks, a dodge spirit, a fucked database, and 4 hours > to get to the airport 90 minutes away. > > We got a couple things done but started sweating when the DB wasn't > fixed by 1:45(rudy's plane leaving at 3:30) and we still had 90 minutes > of driving on shitty roads to do. Thankefully everything appeared to > work(Dan: "We forgot to dump the sequences before the import!" Rudy: > "Well lets hope *that* doesn't fuck something up" naturally, not dumping > the sequences being the one true thing that could fuck up the DB.. heh) > > After an intensive 90 second check to make sure we still had data > integrity and that shit, for the most part, still worked, we bailed the > fuck outa' dodge in a mad rush to get Rudy's plane before it left for > the Great White North without him. Apparently, we made it before his > plane did.(grr) > > So, what did we get done? > > - SSURLS which will draw lots and lots of spiders in to index our site. > - made some progress on the 'members' pages > - cleaned up the DB a ton, and synched out new DB Structure/data with > the old one(both test.evolt.org and evolt.org are pulling of the same DB > now, which is nice) > - config'd it so you don't need cookies enabled to do a lot of shit. > - made a *lot* of performance fixes. The new site really flies, from an > application level. > - fixed the grr'bot mostly(jeff?) > - took out old centers > - added new centers(Usability and Web Business)(someone should probably > write something up on the site about these new centers and what > they're for) > - got all admin shit working(as far as adding/editing/approving/deleting > articles) > - umm. i'm sure there's more, having a hard time thinking off all these > things right now. > > Things we *didnt* get done? > > - User defined style sheets(didnt even touch it) > - member pages(partly) > - convert LONG -> CLOB's > - converting the Old URL's into New URL's(for people that have specific > articles bookmarked, etc) > - lots of other shit i can't think of. > > Things that we *need* to get done?(We've decided that we may not have > all new features totally implemented by the 14th of Dec, so we're going > to cut the fat and go live with what we can, adding the things we can't > get done as we get them done) > > - Convert old url -> new url(this is my job in the next couple days) > - convert long -> clob(my job as well) > - Rudy and Seth need to rap about thetips DB strucutre(thats up > to you two) > - Fix a lot of smaller, annoying bugs. > > So, jeff is going to be busy with work as soon as he gets back. I'm > going to be working on the above two items. We could > *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALY* use some help finding, > identifying and documenting bugs on the new site. If we don't have to > find them and shit, we can spend the time fixing them. > > There are 60+ people on thesite list, so if everyone of you could find > just *one* bug, we could have all the problems identified and then get > to fixing them. This is pretty important, and I'm asking for everyones > help :) > > So, to sum up, start testing that new site! Let us know what needs to be > fixed/addressed by sending an email to thesite at lists.evolt.org with > [bug] in the Subject field. I've got a special filter set up to filter > them into a bug folder so i can fix them faster. > > So hammer the smurf out of http://test.evolt.org - try everything you > can think of to break it, and let us know when you do. Don't worry about > fucking up the DB somehow as we're back on the test one again for > testing purposes. Let me know if anyone has questions or comments or > anything like that.. > > Thanks bunches :) > > .djc. > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. > From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 13:12:18 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:12:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error References: <3A1976BE.8010506@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A197752.6010000@oracular.com> seth and matts(both of ya), what are your userid numbers, or usernames? i wanna add a couple more people to the admin realm so you guys can test the admin features(and anyone else that wants to) .djc. Daniel J. Cody wrote: > ok, persistant logins are fixed now.. > > barely get the initial message out and you guys are already finding > problems!!! woooooooooohoooo! thanks guys :) > > ..djc. > > Seth Bienek wrote: > >> This: >> IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) >> >> Should be this: >> IsDefined("cookie.evolt_login") >> >> Take Care, >> >> Seth >> >> ------------------------------ >> Seth Bienek >> Solutions Development Manager >> Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. >> 972.455.7294 tel >> 972.404.9754 fax >> ------------------------------ >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org >>> [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Haughey >>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 12:52 PM >>> To: thesite at lists.evolt.org >>> Subject: [thesite] login error >>> >>> >>> I just got this error upon logging into test.evolt: >>> >>> Error Occurred While Processing Request >>> Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the >>> expression: IsDefined(cookie.evolt_login) AND FindNoCase(url.uuid, >>> cookie.evolt_login) >>> >>> Error near line 20, column 40. Parameter 1 of function IsDefined >>> which is >>> now "00087BF4-C3BD-19A2-B4FA569BD153DCF2" must be a syntactically valid >>> variable name The error occurred while processing an element with >>> a general >>> identifier of (CFELSEIF), occupying document position (20:1) to >>> (20:85) in >>> the template file >>> /home/evolttest/public_html/test/login/act_checkcookie.cfm.Date/Time: >>> Mon >>> Nov 20 12:51:54 2000 >>> Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) >>> Remote Address: 207.44.174.231 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ >>> and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: >>> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ >> and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: >> http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 13:13:18 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:13:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] RE: [Admin] Codefest 2 wrapup. References: Message-ID: <3A19778D.4000802@oracular.com> Live by December 14th. It would be nice, and make for a less stressfull christmas if we could have it ready to go sometime before that though. :) .djc. A. Erickson wrote: > You guys fucking rock! > > I'll help debug. You got a deadline on that? From bobd at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 20 13:16:53 2000 From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:16:53 2000 Subject: [thesite] Not found Message-ID: Logging in from the error page (mis-typed password), I get the successful "welcome back" then there's a re-direct to : http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=checkcookie&uuid=000D9DE7%2D77D B%2D1A19%2DB0FC569BD15384F2 Which fails (a 302) Not Found The requested URL /login/index.cfm was not found on this server. Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Apache/1.3.14 Server at test.evolt.org Port 80 So - I used the login form, checking "remember me" on: http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=error It takes me to : http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=login Then there's a redirect - from this? Don't know why it failed though. -- bob davis bobd at members.evolt.org From matt at haughey.com Mon Nov 20 13:50:55 2000 From: matt at haughey.com (Matthew Haughey) Date: Mon Nov 20 13:50:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <3A197752.6010000@oracular.com> References: <3A1976BE.8010506@oracular.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001120115044.032a41d0@lepen.pair.com> On Monday, 11/20/2000, at 01:11 PM, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >seth and matts(both of ya), what are your userid numbers, or usernames? i >wanna add a couple more people to the admin realm so you guys can test the >admin features(and anyone else that wants to) I think I'm 135: http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=135 From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 14:36:12 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 14:36:12 2000 Subject: [thesite] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi Dan (& all), I wanted to find my userid (and/or username), so I clicked the "Email my password" button after taking a hazard guess at my username (which was apparently incorrect). :) I'll get back to ya on that User ID... :) URL: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=login&action=process Error Info: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "#cgi.script_name#/s/#url.s#/evolt/error" Error near line 45, column 20. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Error resolving parameter URL.S The specified URL parameter cannot be found. This problem is very likely due to the fact that you have misspelled the parameter name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFLOCATION), occupying document position (45:2) to (45:73) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/login/act_process.cfm. Date/Time: Mon Nov 20 14:33:38 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; Seth wuz here.) Remote Address: 208.189.202.23 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=error Query String: section=login&action=process ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 14:59:04 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 14:59:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] [fixed] noticification References: Message-ID: <3A199057.5070908@oracular.com> fixed. still need to fix the URL in the email it sends though and provide more verbosity if the person enters a username/email we dont recognize. Seth Bienek wrote: > Hi Dan (& all), > > I wanted to find my userid (and/or username), so I clicked the "Email my > password" button after taking a hazard guess at my username (which was > apparently incorrect). :) > > I'll get back to ya on that User ID... :) > > URL: > http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=login&action=process > > "#cgi.script_name#/s/#url.s#/evolt/error" From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 15:15:02 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:15:02 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] redirect issue. References: Message-ID: <3A199416.4040707@oracular.com> jeff, i'm going to wait till you get home and shit before i take this one.. whats the javascript supposed to be doing? check out bobs descriptino below. lemme know wassup. :) > >this still not working foryou?? > > thanks :) > > .djc. > Still not working. Try to log in using the wrong password, then, on the error page, log in correctly selecting the checkbox for "remember me". The system will log you in, and give you the welcome back spiel, but the redirect breaks. If I hit "back" and go back to the welcome page, the redirect kicks in again and it works. (takes me to the http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=error, but lists me as logged in - e.g., the login form isn't there.) As a side note, we should probably be having the redirect go to the first page someone tries to log in from - not the error page if they have fat fingers. (I know - where was I last week...easy to make suggestions after the fact...I suck.) weird. From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 15:18:09 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:18:09 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001120115044.032a41d0@lepen.pair.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, My Username is: Seth My UserID is : 494 Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Haughey > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 1:51 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thesite] login error > > > On Monday, 11/20/2000, at 01:11 PM, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > >seth and matts(both of ya), what are your userid numbers, or > usernames? i > >wanna add a couple more people to the admin realm so you guys > can test the > >admin features(and anyone else that wants to) > > I think I'm 135: > http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=135 > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 15:27:35 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:27:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F79C@gate.ti3.com> Hi Seth, I'm gonna bash some CF user's group in your name, mua ha ha ha ha !!!!! (yeah, you sent it to thelist) ;) sgd -- work: http://www.ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:21 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > Hi Dan, > > My Username is: Seth > My UserID is : 494 > > Seth > From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 15:27:45 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:27:45 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F79D@gate.ti3.com> er, i mean thesite. sgd -- work: http://www.ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 15:48:41 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:48:41 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F79C@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: Scott, are you suffering from delusions of grandeur again? I didn't post my password, fer cryin' out loud! BTW; your UserName: SCG Your UserID: 35 You need a Shiner. :) Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:28 PM > To: 'thesite at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > Hi Seth, I'm gonna bash some CF user's group in your name, mua ha ha ha ha > !!!!! > > (yeah, you sent it to thelist) > > ;) > > sgd > -- > work: http://www.ti3.com/ > non: http://thinksafely.org/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] > > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:21 PM > > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > > > > Hi Dan, > > > > My Username is: Seth > > My UserID is : 494 > > > > Seth > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 15:48:44 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:48:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F79D@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: Scott, Did you ever know that you're my hero? Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:28 PM > To: 'thesite at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > er, i mean thesite. > > sgd > -- > work: http://www.ti3.com/ > non: http://thinksafely.org/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From seth at sethbienek.com Mon Nov 20 15:48:47 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:48:47 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F79D@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: Er... Maybe I should elaborate. :) This: http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=3419 is beautiful. I laughed, I cried, I nearly shat myself. Heh. I just wanted to use "shat" in a sentence. Seriously, it's good stuff. I don't know how I missed it the first time. Thank you sir! Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:28 PM > To: 'thesite at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > er, i mean thesite. > > sgd > -- > work: http://www.ti3.com/ > non: http://thinksafely.org/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 15:50:49 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:50:49 2000 Subject: [thesite] login error Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A0@gate.ti3.com> no, I'm suffering from delusions of reality. boy, do I feel dumb. sgd -- work: http://www.ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth Bienek [mailto:seth at sethbienek.com] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 3:38 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thesite] login error > > > > Scott, are you suffering from delusions of grandeur again? I > didn't post my > password, fer cryin' out loud! > From elfur at elfur.is Mon Nov 20 15:55:19 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 15:55:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] unable to log in Message-ID: <007d01c0533d$29131200$40aefea9@DWARFS> Logging in from the front page: after submitting login the site ask permission to set cookie, I say yes and I'm supposed to be taken to http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=checkcookie&uui d=000D244D%2D9C78%2D1A19%2DB0FC569BD15384F2 but I get a 404 on that page: The requested URL /login/index.cfm was not found on this server. Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- Apache/1.3.14 Server at test.evolt.org Port 80 HTH [elfur] From elfur at lists.evolt.org Mon Nov 20 16:01:40 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 16:01:40 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] unable to log in References: <007d01c0533d$29131200$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: <00cc01c0533e$0c1870e0$40aefea9@DWARFS> I sent it a little bit too soon, apparently I'm logged in (I can tell by the session info at the bottom), but I still got the error page. HTH [elfur] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elfur Logadottir" To: Sent: 20. n?vember 2000 21:59 Subject: [thesite] unable to log in | Logging in from the front page: | | after submitting login the site ask permission to set | cookie, I say yes and I'm supposed to be taken to | | http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=checkcookie&uui | d=000D244D%2D9C78%2D1A19%2DB0FC569BD15384F2 | | but I get a 404 on that page: | | The requested URL /login/index.cfm was not found on this | server. | | Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying | to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. | | | ---------------------------------------------------------- -- | -------------------- | | Apache/1.3.14 Server at test.evolt.org Port 80 | | | HTH | [elfur] | | | _______________________________________________ | http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ | and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: | http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ | From bobd at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 20 16:13:10 2000 From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis) Date: Mon Nov 20 16:13:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] unable to log in In-Reply-To: <007d01c0533d$29131200$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: on 11/20/00 4:59 PM, Elfur Logadottir at elfur at elfur.is wrote: > Logging in from the front page: > > after submitting login the site ask permission to set > cookie, I say yes and I'm supposed to be taken to > > http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=checkcookie&uui > d=000D244D%2D9C78%2D1A19%2DB0FC569BD15384F2 this is the exact problem I'm having. Different situation, but same issue. I do have my browser set to accept all cookies though. bob -- bob davis bobd at members.evolt.org From elfur at elfur.is Mon Nov 20 16:26:20 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 16:26:20 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] (s?) when submitting an article. Message-ID: <010a01c05341$7ddc67b0$40aefea9@DWARFS> It's not marked bug, as it is less of a technical bug, and more of a finer details. Writing an article, submitting it, notice a spelling error, press the back button (on the page, not the browser one) : Not working yet Hit the browser back button but the form comes up clean, it doesn't remember what I had written there > hit the browser-forward button and the preview page of my article is still there > hit submit, figure the spelling error will be fixed after submission > but the submission doesn't work Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information Oracle Error Code = 923 ORA-00923: FROM keyword not found where expected SQL = "SELECT content.contentid users.who, users.email, users.firstname, users.lastname FROM content, users, categorys WHERE content.contentname='The winter is going ...' AND categorys.categoryid = 25 AND users.userid = 13" Data Source = "EVOLTCLONE" The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (196:5) to (196:51) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/article/act_process.cfm. Date/Time: Mon Nov 20 16:22:45 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) Remote Address: 194.144.199.105 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action= preview Query String: section=article&action=process still trying to break things for you :-) HTH elfur From elfur at elfur.is Mon Nov 20 17:10:24 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:10:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things Message-ID: <01ec01c05347$a6afb3d0$40aefea9@DWARFS> 1. Rating an article I can rate my own article - - you should have to be logged in to be able to rate (probably like that already) - you should not be able to rate your own work. I can also change my rating as often as I care (it's rated as I last chose) perhaps it would be better either to only allow rating once and have that stuck or at least with a warning or some other kind of message-ing, letting "the rater" know that he's not adding another rate to the article but rather changing a previous one. Admin - Ratings . The winter is going . 5 - elfur 20-Nov-2000 4:55 AM BTW the time here now is 23:07, and when I was rating it was 22:55 and not 4:55 AM !! 2. Recently on the list is it possible to have the last 5 threads and not the last 5 posts, 5 lines with the same sentence fraction doesn't say variety to me. Recently on thelist: ? . Netscape Only error. . Netscape Only error. . Netscape Only error. . Netscape Only error. . Netscape Only error. 3. New articles - They are marked as Admin - why? I'm not in admin zone am I. - If I'm in admin zone, where do I approve articles? (I know how, but not where on the new site) I got it, you can't approve you're own article - good one. Admin - New Articles . The winter is going . by elfur 20-Nov-2000 0:00 AM . The winter is going . by elfur 20-Nov-2000 0:00 AM . dan by djc 18-Nov-2000 0:00 AM that's it, I'm off to bed ttyl [elfur] From elfur at elfur.is Mon Nov 20 17:21:13 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:21:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [bug] Article Approved References: <200011202307.RAA15111@poet.oracular.com> Message-ID: <021001c05349$2a41b080$40aefea9@DWARFS> and the lucky 13 would be me dontcha think it'd be better saying elfur rather than 13? *the tired one rests* To: | | Sexy admins, | | The article "dan" was approved by 13 on 20-Nov-00 at 05:09 PM. | You can see access the article http://test.evolt.org/article/dan/1/4010/index.cfm From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 17:33:45 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:33:45 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things References: <01ec01c05347$a6afb3d0$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: <3A19B498.5000103@oracular.com> Elfur Logadottir wrote: > 1. Rating an article > > I can rate my own article - > - you should have to be logged in to be able to rate > (probably like that already) yup. > - you should not be able to rate your own work. fixed. > Admin - Ratings > .. The winter is going . > 5 - elfur > 20-Nov-2000 4:55 AM > > BTW the time here now is 23:07, and when I was rating it was > 22:55 and not 4:55 AM !! hmm. time is coming up wack for me too.. i'll check it > 2. Recently on the list > > is it possible to have the last 5 threads and not the last 5 > posts, 5 lines with the same sentence fraction doesn't say good idea, i'll work with that now. > 3. New articles > - They are marked as Admin - why? I'm not in admin zone am > I. > - If I'm in admin zone, where do I approve articles? > (I know how, but not where on the new site) > I got it, you can't approve you're own article - good > one. > > > Admin - New Articles > .. The winter is going . > by elfur > 20-Nov-2000 0:00 AM > .. The winter is going . > by elfur > 20-Nov-2000 0:00 AM > .. dan > by djc > 18-Nov-2000 0:00 AM You approve the articles by clicking the links on the left of the article.. approve/reset/deny/delete/edit - you can edit the article right there.. we really dont have the old evolt.org/admin anymore.. its all integrated and shows up if you're an admin. does that make sense or no? From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 17:40:42 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:40:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] [fixed] Article Approved References: <200011202307.RAA15111@poet.oracular.com> <021001c05349$2a41b080$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: <3A19B638.1000401@oracular.com> fix0red. info at evolt.org wrote: > Sexy admins, > > The article "The winter is going ..." was approved by djc on 20-Nov-00 at 05:40 PM. > You can see access the article http://test.evolt.org/article/The_winter_is_going/1/4148/index.cfm > > Elfur Logadottir wrote: > and the lucky 13 would be me > > dontcha think it'd be better saying elfur rather than 13? > > *the tired one rests* > > To: > > > | > | Sexy admins, > | > | The article "dan" was approved by 13 on 20-Nov-00 at 05:09 > PM. > | You can see access the article > http://test.evolt.org/article/dan/1/4010/index.cfm From elfur at lists.evolt.org Mon Nov 20 17:44:55 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:44:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things References: <01ec01c05347$a6afb3d0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A19B498.5000103@oracular.com> Message-ID: <023201c0534c$79622930$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Daniel J. Cody" | You approve the articles by clicking the links on the left of the | article.. approve/reset/deny/delete/edit - you can edit the article | right there.. we really dont have the old evolt.org/admin anymore.. its | all integrated and shows up if you're an admin. | | does that make sense or no? Yes, after a while of browsing I figured as much, thanks *the tired one is really resting* From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 17:45:27 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:45:27 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A7@gate.ti3.com> > > > - you should not be able to rate your own work. > > fixed. I tried to rate her article and got "you can't rate your own article" sgd From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 17:52:11 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:52:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A7@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <3A19B8E9.5060006@oracular.com> ya, i was going to write "Who the fuck you are trying to rate your own article? You got some fucking guts!" but decided to tone it down.. :) if someone has a more user-friendly thing i should say, i'm all ears.. .djc. Scott Dexter wrote: >>> - you should not be able to rate your own work. >> >> fixed. > > > I tried to rate her article and got "you can't rate your own article" From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 17:54:08 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 17:54:08 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A8@gate.ti3.com> ya missed it: *I* tried to rate *her* article and got the message.... sgd -- work: http://www.ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:dcody at oracular.com] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 5:51 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thesite] [bug] few minor things > > > ya, i was going to write "Who the fuck you are trying to rate > your own > article? You got some fucking guts!" but decided to tone it down.. :) > > if someone has a more user-friendly thing i should say, i'm all ears.. > > .djc. > > Scott Dexter wrote: > > >>> - you should not be able to rate your own work. > >> > >> fixed. > > > > > > I tried to rate her article and got "you can't rate your > own article" > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From sgd at ti3.com Mon Nov 20 18:01:37 2000 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:01:37 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] FW: [Admin] Article Approved Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A9@gate.ti3.com> the link below brings up "error article not found...." sgd -- work: http://www.ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: info at evolt.org [mailto:info at evolt.org] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 11:59 AM > To: admin at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [Admin] Article Approved > > > > Sexy admins, > > The article "Oh the weather outside is frightful" was > approved by djc on 20-Nov-00 at 05:59 PM. > You can see access the article > http://test.evolt.org/article/Oh_the_weather_outside_is_fright > ful/1/4152/index.cfm > > > > ___________________________________________________ > evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the > popular culture. > From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 18:14:58 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:14:58 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] [bug] [fixed] Article Approved Message-ID: <3A19BE41.5010200@oracular.com> should be fixed now. the sql statement wasn't getting the categoryid(25 in this case).. and was inserting a 1(default) which the sql statement thats builds that page could find(e.g.: where categoryid=25 and articleid=4148), which was giving you an error. just overexplaining myself here so i dont seem like such an idiot :) keep em coming.. ..djc. Scott Dexter wrote: > ouch? > > error article not found > Sorry, the article you are looking for is not available. > Scott Dexter wrote: > the link below brings up > > "error article not found...." > info at evolt.org wrote: > Sexy admins, > > The article "The winter is going ..." was approved by djc on 20-Nov-00 at 06:11 PM. > You can see access the article http://test.evolt.org/article/The_winter_is_going/25/4148/index.cfm > 25 Commentary & Society > > > ___________________________________________________ > evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. ___________________________________________________ evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 18:36:13 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:36:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] [fixed] few minor things References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F7A8@gate.ti3.com> Message-ID: <3A19C33C.60208@oracular.com> oops. Should be fixed now. .djc. Scott Dexter wrote: > ya missed it: > > *I* tried to rate *her* article and got the message.... >>> I tried to rate her article and got "you can't rate your >> >> own article" From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 18:43:36 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:43:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things References: <01ec01c05347$a6afb3d0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A19B498.5000103@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A19C4F6.8030403@oracular.com> Upon further review, this is going to be more difficult thatn i originally thought.. anyone else want to take this one?(basically, just loop through messages, grab one subject(and properties) output it, loop through till you find the next dis-similiar one, output that one, etc..) i can get to it later, just not on my top 15 TTDL right now. this would be a good thing for someone looking to get their feet wet with helping out.. *ahem* :) .djc. Daniel J. Cody wrote: >> 2. Recently on the list >> >> is it possible to have the last 5 threads and not the last 5 >> posts, 5 lines with the same sentence fraction doesn't say > > > good idea, i'll work with that now. From isaac at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 20 18:43:50 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:43:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: <3A1965AD.1040404@oracular.com> Message-ID: > yes, its permanent. we did it for a couple reaons. > > 1.) looks better than passing variables on the right > 2.) index spiders just *LOVE* it when there are keywords in the URL, as > opposed to just the body or meta tags. they give higher relevance when > there are keywords in the URL as well. > > this is the super sexy swinging URL formatting we were talking about. If > you cruise around teh site you'll notice that most of the URL's now look > 'real', not just article ones. the only ones that dont are form > submissions, which robots don't follow anyways. very cool. urls with some indication of the content to come are helpful. better to have http://test.evolt.org/article/The_winter_is_going/25/4148/index.cfm http://test.evolt.org/article/Weather_outside_is_frightful/25/4152/index.cfm http://test.evolt.org/article/Testing_approval/18/4109/index.cfm than http://test.evolt.org/article/25/4148/index.cfm http://test.evolt.org/article/25/4152/index.cfm http://test.evolt.org/article/18/4109/index.cfm and trying to guess which is which. is it possible to have a shorter version without the article titles though? http://test.evolt.org/article/18/4109/index.cfm or http://test.evolt.org/18/4109/index.cfm don't appear to work. i'm just thinking of people pasting URLs into emails and having them wrap. with the weather outside article above, i had to delete a few words to get it to wrap ok. even with the contracted article title, the link still works. can you give a lowdown on how it works? will it work with article/anything/18/4109/index.cfm ? or does the stuff straight after "article" have to bear ANY relevance to the article title at all? ie, could someone paste: http://test.evolt.org/article/this_is_a_great_article/18/4109/index.cfm ? i From isaac at triplezero.com.au Mon Nov 20 18:56:57 2000 From: isaac at triplezero.com.au (isaac) Date: Mon Nov 20 18:56:57 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] message revision Message-ID: went to edit article. hit update. it returned a msg saying that my "submission will be reviewed". yet it's marked as approved not sure if this one has been reported already. i From dcody at oracular.com Mon Nov 20 20:26:57 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Nov 20 20:26:57 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] message revision References: Message-ID: <3A19DC98.3709D53E@oracular.com> just need to change the output message, and redirect or soemthing..thnx though. .djc. isaac wrote: > > went to edit article. hit update. it returned a msg saying that my > "submission will be reviewed". > > yet it's marked as approved > > not sure if this one has been reported already. From dsmah at home.com Tue Nov 21 07:49:26 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Nov 21 07:49:26 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] few minor things In-Reply-To: <3A19C4F6.8030403@oracular.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Nov 20, 2000 06:42:30 PM Message-ID: <200011211350.GAA00825@alice.monkeyland.ca> Feel like doing a little hand holding? Give me some quick pointers and I can take a look at it if you still need someone. Keep in mind that I've never even seen CF code. Dean Daniel J. Cody writes: > Upon further review, this is going to be more difficult thatn i > originally thought.. > > anyone else want to take this one?(basically, just loop through > messages, grab one subject(and properties) output it, loop through till > you find the next dis-similiar one, output that one, etc..) > > i can get to it later, just not on my top 15 TTDL right now. this would > be a good thing for someone looking to get their feet wet with helping out.. > > *ahem* :) > > .djc. > > Daniel J. Cody wrote: > > > >> 2. Recently on the list > >> > >> is it possible to have the last 5 threads and not the last 5 > >> posts, 5 lines with the same sentence fraction doesn't say > > > > > > good idea, i'll work with that now. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 11:33:50 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 11:33:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] Not found References: Message-ID: <3A1AB1B9.9060903@oracular.com> can someone check this again? I made a couple changes and it appears to work now(jeff, need to talk to you aboutthat.) .djc. Bob Davis wrote: > Logging in from the error page (mis-typed password), I get the successful > "welcome back" then there's a re-direct to : > > http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=checkcookie&uuid=000D9DE7%2D77D > B%2D1A19%2DB0FC569BD15384F2 > > Which fails (a 302) > > Not Found > The requested URL /login/index.cfm was not found on this server. > > > Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to use an > ErrorDocument to handle the request. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Apache/1.3.14 Server at test.evolt.org Port 80 > > > So - I used the login form, checking "remember me" on: > http://test.evolt.org/login/index.cfm?action=error > > It takes me to : > http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=login > > Then there's a redirect - from this? > > > > > Don't know why it failed though. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 11:41:11 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 11:41:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles References: Message-ID: <3A1AB373.6080704@oracular.com> isaac wrote: > is it possible to have a shorter version without the article titles though? > > http://test.evolt.org/article/18/4109/index.cfm > or > http://test.evolt.org/18/4109/index.cfm > > don't appear to work. > > i'm just thinking of people pasting URLs into emails and having them wrap. > with the weather outside article above, i had to delete a few words to get > it to wrap ok. even with the contracted article title, the link still works. i can understand what you're saying. we have to determine if the value of non-wrapping URLs for when people post them in emails is greater than the title in the URL. most email programs wrap at 72 chars http://evolt.org/article/this_is_a_great_article/18/4109/index.cfm the above url is 66chars(i think) so its possible that a number of our URLs could wrap.. it seems we have about 29 chars to play with in the title before it wraps.. > can you give a lowdown on how it works? will it work with > article/anything/18/4109/index.cfm ? or does the stuff straight after > "article" have to bear ANY relevance to the article title at all? jeff will be able to explain it better than me, so i'll let him do it :) > ie, could someone paste: > > http://test.evolt.org/article/this_is_a_great_article/18/4109/index.cfm ya. as jeff will explain, thats cus the title in the URL isn't parsed, so anything could go in there its more for the benefits of readers and bots. .djc. From javier at msm.cl Tue Nov 21 11:46:50 2000 From: javier at msm.cl (javier velasco) Date: Tue Nov 21 11:46:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] testing Message-ID: <3A1AB3BC.5A23F404@msm.cl> hi evolted thesiters i've been testing the test site this morning, and so far i haven't found any major problems i've been very surprised and pleased with al those little details that improve functionality, i love it YOU PEOPLE ROCK, (specially Dan, .jeff & Rudy for the weekend of coding) then only things i noticed, wich you already must know are: 1. help button is linked ot the home (i suppose the help part is not ready) 2. the whole big table looks somehow unbalanced to me (win98, nn4.75) too much space at the top, too much space at the left and there's always a horizontal scrollbar at the bottom of my browser, no matter how i rezise it i'll be in touch if i find anything else hth -- javier velasco web architect MSM Interactive http://www.msm.cl - work http://mantruc.com - me http://evolt.org - family From bobd at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 11:52:46 2000 From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis) Date: Tue Nov 21 11:52:46 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] Not found In-Reply-To: <3A1AB1B9.9060903@oracular.com> Message-ID: on 11/21/00 12:32 PM, Daniel J. Cody at dcody at oracular.com wrote: > can someone check this again? I made a couple changes and it appears to > work now(jeff, need to talk to you aboutthat.) > > .djc. Works fine - Great job! Thanks. bob -- bob davis bobd at members.evolt.org From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 11:54:23 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 11:54:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] [fixed] Not found References: Message-ID: <3A1AB68B.3070509@oracular.com> coolio.(marking this fixed.) .djc. Bob Davis wrote: > on 11/21/00 12:32 PM, Daniel J. Cody at dcody at oracular.com wrote: > > >> can someone check this again? I made a couple changes and it appears to >> work now(jeff, need to talk to you aboutthat.) >> >> .djc. > > > Works fine - Great job! > > Thanks. > > bob From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 12:02:13 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 12:02:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] [fixed] when submitting an article. References: <010a01c05341$7ddc67b0$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: <3A1AB860.4010607@oracular.com> Elfur Logadottir wrote: > Hit the browser back button but the form comes up clean, it > doesn't remember what I had written there > hit the i'll bet you were using ie5.x or ns4.x - i could replicate this on both those browsers, but pressing 'back' in NS6 had all my stuff still in the fields.. i dunno enough about browsers to expand on this, but i'm going to say this is a browser specific thing, not an evolt thing. > browser-forward button and the preview page of my article is > still there > hit submit, figure the spelling error will be > fixed after submission > but the submission doesn't work > > Error Occurred While Processing Request > Error Diagnostic Information > Oracle Error Code = 923 > > ORA-00923: FROM keyword not found where expected this is fixed. thanks elfur :) .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 15:01:48 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:01:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] testing References: <3A1AB3BC.5A23F404@msm.cl> Message-ID: <3A1AE277.2010102@oracular.com> javier velasco wrote: > then only things i noticed, wich you already must know are: > > 1. help button is linked ot the home (i suppose the help part is not > ready) updated this to work. someone is going to have to run through it though and remove all the tags(i just left them) though. i also have the admin members on that page pulled out of the DB, so we dont have to manually update it anymore.. listed by name, with a link to their user page. lemme know if thats cool, or if anything else should be on there. thanks javi :) .djc. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 15:08:41 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:08:41 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. Message-ID: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Hey all - Just thinking here about something. We currently have a 'contact' link in two places on our site. One is a button on top, the other is a link to an email form on the right sidebar. Question: Would it make more sense to leave the one at the top and get rid of the one on the side? Reasoning: We currently don't have a link *anywhere* for a new user to register, and the sidebar place that 'contact' currently occupies would be a good spot for that. Other Reasoning: Maybe we could leave the link for 'contact' on the sidebar(while also adding a register linnk there too), but change the icon at the top of the page from 'contact' to something else. Thoughts? Oh, and since no one is really jumping at CF coding(which is cool) can anyone volunteer HTML/CSS help? Please? ;) .djc. From walker at sdproductions.com Tue Nov 21 15:17:07 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:17:07 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. In-Reply-To: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001121143135.02eb2ce8@popd.sdproductions.com> Time out! I guess I missed the offer to do some CF work.... What can I do? I've got time! just let me know... -w At 03:07 PM 11/21/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Hey all - > >Just thinking here about something. > >We currently have a 'contact' link in two places on our site. One is a >button on top, the other is a link to an email form on the right sidebar. > >Question: Would it make more sense to leave the one at the top and get rid >of the one on the side? > >Reasoning: We currently don't have a link *anywhere* for a new user to >register, and the sidebar place that 'contact' currently occupies would be >a good spot for that. > >Other Reasoning: Maybe we could leave the link for 'contact' on the >sidebar(while also adding a register linnk there too), but change the icon >at the top of the page from 'contact' to something else. > >Thoughts? > >Oh, and since no one is really jumping at CF coding(which is cool) can >anyone volunteer HTML/CSS help? Please? ;) > >.djc. > > >_______________________________________________ >http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ >and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: >http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ _________________________________________ walker fenton walker at sdproductions.com 303.722.5473 From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 15:23:09 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:23:09 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001121143135.02eb2ce8@popd.sdproductions.com> Message-ID: <3A1AE777.7080608@oracular.com> coolness. if you could look at http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2000-November/000100.html or maybe start working a way to convert incoming old urls /index.cfm?menu=8&cid=666 to new urls on the fly: /article/words/8/666/index.cfm that would really be cool. or if you wanna take a stab at doing the work for registeringt a new user, that would be keen too thanks ed :) .djc. walker wrote: > Time out! I guess I missed the offer to do some CF work.... > > What can I do? I've got time! > > just let me know... > > -w > From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Tue Nov 21 15:26:46 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:26:46 2000 Subject: [thesite] faq linques Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021CC@EXPO1> The FAQ TOC is misbehaving... the syntax is correct, but the the links actually resolve to "http://test.evolt.org/test/#link" instead of what it should. It works if you change the URL to "http://test.evolt.org/faq/" (at least on my machine), but I don't know what else that might make wonky. (It's also still showing double numbers due to the
    tags and numbers in the text.) Dan, what kind of HMTL/CSS help do you need? I'm clueless on CF, but I've got a day off on Friday that I could use to help clean up font tags n such. Is that the kind of thing you're needing? Dave From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 15:32:39 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:32:39 2000 Subject: [thesite] faq linques References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021CC@EXPO1> Message-ID: <3A1AE9B1.5000207@oracular.com> McCreath_David wrote: > The FAQ TOC is misbehaving... the syntax is correct, but the the > links actually resolve to "http://test.evolt.org/test/#link" instead of what > it should. It works if you change the URL to > "http://test.evolt.org/faq/" (at least on my machine), but I don't know what > else that might make wonky. (It's also still showing double numbers due to > the
      tags and numbers in the text.) > > Dan, what kind of HMTL/CSS help do you need? I'm clueless on CF, but I've > got a day off on Friday that I could use to help clean up font tags n such. > Is that the kind of thing you're needing? exactly :) basically some people to go through what you mention above, and check the site for stuff like tags(which there shouldnt be any of, correct me if i'm wrong adrian), make sure the accesskey things are correct, stuff like that.. Some people to go over our HTML/CSS to make sure its smurfy. Let me know if you need any more direction david, and thanks a million. .djc. From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 15:37:05 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:37:05 2000 Subject: [thesite] faq linques In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021CC@EXPO1> Message-ID: .djc. & dave, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: McCreath_David : : The FAQ TOC is misbehaving... the syntax is : correct, but the the links actually resolve to : "http://test.evolt.org/test/#link" instead of what it should. : It works if you change the URL to : "http://test.evolt.org/faq/" (at least on my machine), but I : don't know what else that might make wonky. (It's also : still showing double numbers due to the
        tags and : numbers in the text.) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ this is one of those unfortunate side-effects caused by using our brand-new url scheme. in order to make the anchors work correctly they'll have to be referenced like this: How did evolt.org come about? instead of like this: How did evolt.org come about? make sense? (well, that's more for .djc. than anyone since he's the only other person that knows how the new url scheme works besides me). (i'll go make the change on that right now) ok, it's back to work for me, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Tue Nov 21 15:50:04 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:50:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: <3A1AB373.6080704@oracular.com> References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001122104621.0198cee0@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 11:40 21/11/2000 -0600, you wrote: >most email programs wrap at 72 chars >http://evolt.org/article/this_is_a_great_article/18/4109/index.cfm > >the above url is 66chars(i think) so its possible that a number of our >URLs could wrap.. it seems we have about 29 chars to play with in the >title before it wraps.. why not put it at the end? http://evolt.org/18/4109/article/this_is_a_great_article.cfm advantages: - if it gets wrapped, and someone clicks on the first 72 chars only (lopping off the end of the title) the link will still work. - it's shorter to tack .cfm on the end of the title, rather than /index.cfm - if people want to save the articles to disk, they'll get a nicer filename (this_is_a_great_article.cfm) are there technical reasons why it can't work this way?
      ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Tue Nov 21 15:59:58 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Tue Nov 21 15:59:58 2000 Subject: [thesite] faq linques Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021CF@EXPO1> >exactly :) basically some people to go through what you mention above, >and check the site for stuff like tags(which there shouldnt be >any of, correct me if i'm wrong adrian), make sure the >accesskey things >are correct, stuff like that.. Some people to go over our HTML/CSS to >make sure its smurfy. Let me know if you need any more >direction david So is it just a matter of doing a "View Source" reporting the mistakes by page? Or do you need somebody to actually alter the files? If thats the case, I'll just need to know where to get the files and what NOT to touch. :) From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 16:38:48 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Tue Nov 21 16:38:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001122104621.0198cee0@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:
        , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : why not put it at the end? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ we can put whatever we want at the end, but not quite in the manner you're proposing. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : http://evolt.org/18/4109/article/this_is_a_great_article.cfm : : - if people want to save the articles to disk, they'll get : a nicer filename (this_is_a_great_article.cfm) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's a very cool advantage to your idea. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : are there technical reasons why it can't work this way? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ yeah, several issues. are you familiar with the basics behind the fusebox methodology? if so, we're basically showing the article page based on a switch where the first "directory" is article. without that there's no way of knowing what exactly is being requested and cfincluding the appropriate templates and making the appropriate database calls. using the above url, the following would work though. http://test.evolt.org/article/view/18/4109/this_is_a_great_article.cfm or this: http://test.evolt.org/article/v/1/1331/Monkeyjunkies_list_to_shut_down.cfm make sense? holler if you've got more questions. .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Tue Nov 21 17:09:54 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Tue Nov 21 17:09:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001122104621.0198cee0@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001122114241.0186ee30@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 14:38 21/11/2000 -0800, you wrote: >yeah, several issues. are you familiar with the basics behind the fusebox >methodology? yep, although not with the way you're avoiding the "index.cfm" at the beginning of urls. i'm doing my own custom munging of query strings on another site.. i'd love to get rid of the index.cfm at the start though, how is it done? is it a server setting? i suppose i'll be unlikely to be able to do it if the site is hosted with a webhosting company (ie. no access to server config). (aside: here's an interesting one .. why does http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/article/view/18/4109/this_is_a_great_article return all 669 "new" articles? ;) From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Nov 21 17:12:22 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Nov 21 17:12:22 2000 Subject: [thesite] faq linques In-Reply-To: <3A1AE9B1.5000207@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1AB990.28224.381F6A7F@localhost> > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > exactly :) basically some people to go through what you mention above, > and check the site for stuff like tags(which there shouldnt be > any of, correct me if i'm wrong adrian), make sure the accesskey things > are correct, stuff like that.. Some people to go over our HTML/CSS to > make sure its smurfy. Let me know if you need any more direction david, > and thanks a million. yep, no font tags, avoid all deprecated tags... template pages: http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/ no new CSS anywhere... sorry i'm unable to do anything with it today... still digging out... From oliver at lineham.co.nz Tue Nov 21 17:21:54 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Tue Nov 21 17:21:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001122104621.0198cee0@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001122122036.0198cee0@mail.paradise.net.nz> (bizarre - either the list or mail server truncated my last post. i've checked my outbox and the whole post was there. here's the rest:) >if so, we're basically showing the article page based on a switch where the >first "directory" is article. > >using the above url, the following would work though. >http://test.evolt.org/article/view/18/4109/this_is_a_great_article.cfm is the 'view' really needed though? surely it would be possible to change your uta.cfm to make the following work: http://test.evolt.org/article/18/4109/this_is_a_great_article.cfm IMO that would look nicely like a "genuine" path with a realistic looking hierarchy. (we could even change the .cfm to .html for looks, but i don't care about that)
      ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 18:10:11 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Tue Nov 21 18:10:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001122114241.0186ee30@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:
        , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : yep, although not with the way you're avoiding : the "index.cfm" at the beginning of urls. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i was referring more to the methodology of breaking up a site into various "applications" and then displaying those "applications" based on a parameter passed in the url (not how or where it appears in the url though). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : i'm doing my own custom munging of query strings : on another site.. i'd love to get rid of the index.cfm : at the start though, how is it done? is it a server : setting? i suppose i'll be unlikely to be able to do it if : the site is hosted with a webhosting company (ie. no : access to server config). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ it's not only a server setting, but a complete rethink on how urls are written, how apps are written, and how variables values are collected and worked with. not only can you not do it without having the ability to administer your own server, you're not likely to be able to do it if you don't have some versing on the various ugly scenarios you're likely to encounter. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : (aside: here's an interesting one .. why does : http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/article/view/18/4109/ : : return all 669 "new" articles? ;) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's an easy one. cause it's not parsing that malformed url you're using - nothing interesting about that. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : is the 'view' really needed though? surely it would : be possible to change your uta.cfm to make the : following work: : : http://test.evolt.org/article/18/4109/this_is_a_great_article.cfm :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ sure we could change it. however, the url parsing tag needs to be flexible enough to accomodate apps larger than the article app. that's where the second "directory" comes in. those apps that need to be sub-apps or portions of the app that do very different things, then the "switch" would be placed in that second position. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : IMO that would look nicely like a "genuine" path with : a realistic looking hierarchy. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ sure, but you've gotta maintain some flexibility for those larger apps. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : (we could even change the .cfm to .html for looks, : but i don't care about that) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ sure, we could even replace index.cfm with evolt.org if we wanted to. it's really quite flexible. hope this makes more sense, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Tue Nov 21 18:38:25 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Tue Nov 21 18:38:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001122114241.0186ee30@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001122131318.0186ee30@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 16:09 21/11/2000 -0800, you wrote: >i was referring more to the methodology of breaking up a site into various yes, i'm fine with fusebox. i was simply wondering about the lack of the "real" cfm filename. which you answered. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: (aside: here's an interesting one .. why does >: http://test.evolt.org/index.cfm/article/view/18/4109/ >: >: return all 669 "new" articles? ;) >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >that's an easy one. cause it's not parsing that malformed url you're >using - nothing interesting about that. except that normally you'd expect a watertight application to recognise when its parameters are invalid, and revert to some default (such as an error, or the vanilla front page). with sufficient input checking, it shouldn't ever be possible to trick any cgi into doing something unintended.
      ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From isaac at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 19:31:45 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Tue Nov 21 19:31:45 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > it's not only a server setting, but a complete rethink on how urls are > written, how apps are written, and how variables values are collected and > worked with. not only can you not do it without having the ability to > administer your own server, you're not likely to be able to do it if you > don't have some versing on the various ugly scenarios you're likely to > encounter. well, quit playing high-horse and tell us some of those ugly scenarios ;) maybe one day i'll have my own server to administer... :P > sure we could change it. however, the url parsing tag needs to > be flexible > enough to accomodate apps larger than the article app. that's where the > second "directory" comes in. those apps that need to be sub-apps or > portions of the app that do very different things, then the "switch" would > be placed in that second position. could you just drop the view and make it the defaultcase in app_article.cfm? > sure, we could even replace index.cfm with evolt.org if we wanted > to. it's > really quite flexible. well, what are you waiting for! ;) that would rock. i From elfur at elfur.is Tue Nov 21 19:48:32 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 19:48:32 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] those timestamps ... & editing already posted articles/comments Message-ID: <008901c05426$eb97f9f0$40aefea9@DWARFS> 1. I went on the site now, to take a looksee and noticed a comment on my fake article, went in there to answer it and now the answer appears before the question. : MartinB wrote on 21-Nov-2000 at 12:29 PM elfur wrote on 21-Nov-2000 at 7:33 AM My system clock at the time was 01.33 AM on the 22nd (and is now 1:51) 2. I managed to have a spelling error in the comment, tried to edit it, but got this instead: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information Template file not found. HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found Note: If you wish to use an absolute template path (e.g. TEMPLATE="/mypath/index.cfm") with CFINCLUDE then you must create a mapping for the path using the ColdFusion Administrator. Using relative paths (e.g. TEMPLATE="index.cfm" or TEMPLATE="../index.cfm") does not require the creation of any special mappings. It is therefore recommended that you use relative paths with CFINCLUDE whenever possible. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFINCLUDE), occupying document position (11:3) to (11:45) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/app_comment.cfm. Date/Time: Tue Nov 21 19:38:31 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) Remote Address: 194.144.199.103 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/The_winter_is_going/25/4148/in dex.cfm 3. Tried to edit my article, but when I hit the Update button this appears: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information Oracle Error Code = 1843 ORA-01843: not a valid month SQL = "UPDATE content SET categoryid = '25', datemod = '11/20/2000', contentname = 'The winter is going ...', synopsis = 'Short but sharp, the Icelandic winter is proving everyone wrong by disappearing way before it''s even suppossed to be here. ', body = 'Short but sharp, the Icelandic winter is proving everyone wrong by disappearing way before it''s even suppossed to be here. It appears that the autumn is leaving early this winter, stepping aside for the spring to visit.', signoff = 3 WHERE contentid = 4148" Data Source = "EVOLTCLONE" The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (22:7) to (22:56) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/article/act_process.cfm. Date/Time: Tue Nov 21 19:40:07 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) Remote Address: 194.144.199.103 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/index.cfm?action=edit&tid=25&a id=4148 Query String: section=article&action=process ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- [elfur] From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 19:55:44 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 19:55:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. In-Reply-To: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: the_site.gif Type: image/gif Size: 378 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mailing_lists.gif Type: image/gif Size: 475 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: browser_archive.gif Type: image/gif Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 19:58:11 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 19:58:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. In-Reply-To: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Message-ID: >Oh, and since no one is really jumping at CF coding(which is cool) >can anyone volunteer HTML/CSS help? Please? ;) I'll help with HTML/CSS. Whatcha need? I'm going to try to work at home tomorrow, and I'll only be putting in a half day. And I will have time during the Thanksgiving holiday. Email me offlist: mailto:marlene at members.evolt.org Marlene From elfur at elfur.is Tue Nov 21 19:58:51 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 19:58:51 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] this is a minor - about the "grrr" Message-ID: <009101c05428$5d0186a0$40aefea9@DWARFS> I submitted a complaint and was directed to this page, http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=comment&subsect ion=grrr&action=process which had nothing in the content area - I'm missing the "thank you and you will be swept out of here now!" This is what you wanted isn't it Dan, me bugging you :-) *the bugging one rests* From elfur at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 20:00:24 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:00:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Message-ID: <009901c05428$94415af0$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Daniel J. Cody" | Oh, and since no one is really jumping at CF coding(which is cool) can | anyone volunteer HTML/CSS help? Please? ;) now you're talking my way ... do tell, what do you need *the offering one rests* From elfur at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 20:04:10 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:04:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles References: Message-ID: <00b101c05429$1ae7b900$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "isaac" | > sure, we could even replace index.cfm with evolt.org if we wanted | > to. it's really quite flexible. | | well, what are you waiting for! ;) | that would rock. I actually have to agree on that one replacing index.cfm with evolt.org would really rock *the repeating one rests* From elfur at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 20:06:10 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:06:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] quickie question about new site. References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c05429$62aed070$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Marlene Bruce" | Lose "Contact" on the right, and replace it with a new user registration prompt. Good idea. +1 *the +one rests* From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 20:15:53 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:15:53 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles References: Message-ID: <3A1B2B89.FACC6A0E@oracular.com> just to showcase this, I just edited out site to have evolt.borg extensions.(but thanks to jeffs modular code, this can be anything very easily) give it a whirl right now if you'd like.. .djc. isaac wrote: > > sure, we could even replace index.cfm with evolt.org if we wanted > > to. it's > > really quite flexible. > > well, what are you waiting for! ;) > that would rock. From marlene at digitizethis.com Tue Nov 21 20:20:19 2000 From: marlene at digitizethis.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:20:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] search issues/ideas Message-ID: Dan, In advanced search, I did a search on "css". It came up with nothing. A search on "CSS" came up with numerous results. Does search have to be case-sensitive? In the failed search attempt, the results were listed as: 1 - 0 of 0 found Perhaps we should just call it "0 found", or at the very least "0 - 0 of 0 found". I presume the word "score" next to all of the results will eventually be replaced by the real score. I searched in "Code" for CSS and got no results. Perhaps when there are no results in one topic we should suggest alternative ways to get a successful result. Something like: "No results found for "CSS". Repeat search in [all topics]." ...with "all topics" a button to re-run the search automatically? Marlene From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 20:50:09 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:50:09 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? Message-ID: Hey, my email at home is being wonky again. It won't send now (I'm trying everything I can to get these last three emails through). I think we should exchange ICQ #'s and try to have ICQ up when we're online. This could help in times like this. Mine is: 25960815 Elfur's: 66751869 David's: ? Marlene From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 20:50:20 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 20:50:20 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? In-Reply-To: <3A1B2D24.7B8AB7F8@oracular.com> References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> <009901c05428$94415af0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A1B2D24.7B8AB7F8@oracular.com> Message-ID: Okee dokee. Elfur and David, do you want to divvy up articles by number? Hey, Adrian's style application is different than what's currently being used on the test site. Some of the differences are better. Shouldn't we finalize the CSS before proceeding? Marlene At 8:19 PM -0600 11/21/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >basically, go over the source and pick out any shit that doesn't belong >there.(font tags for example) and put stuff that should be there but >isn't in there. use adrians style guide for direction: >http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/ > >also, we need to check the access keys across the site(some of them may >be the same) and tabindex's.. alot of that stuff I have no clue about :) > >if you guys could communicate on thesite list with [html] in the >subject, that might be a good thing so everyone else knows what you're >working on and doesn't overwrite it or re-do it.. > >lemme know if you guys need more direction, and big thanks :) > >.djc. From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 21:02:56 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 21:02:56 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [HTML] cleanup based on? References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> <009901c05428$94415af0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A1B2D24.7B8AB7F8@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1B3688.6BD3A19B@oracular.com> you shouldn't have to take them by article number.. if you just take the template for the article page, that should be it.. for example, the article template is in public_html/test/article/dsp_article.cfm does that make sense? .djc. Marlene Bruce wrote: > > Okee dokee. Elfur and David, do you want to divvy up articles by number? > > Hey, Adrian's style application is different than what's currently > being used on the test site. Some of the differences are better. > Shouldn't we finalize the CSS before proceeding? > > Marlene > > At 8:19 PM -0600 11/21/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > >basically, go over the source and pick out any shit that doesn't belong > >there.(font tags for example) and put stuff that should be there but > >isn't in there. use adrians style guide for direction: > >http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/ > > > >also, we need to check the access keys across the site(some of them may > >be the same) and tabindex's.. alot of that stuff I have no clue about :) > > > >if you guys could communicate on thesite list with [html] in the > >subject, that might be a good thing so everyone else knows what you're > >working on and doesn't overwrite it or re-do it.. > > > >lemme know if you guys need more direction, and big thanks :) > > > >.djc. From marlene at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 21:06:01 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Tue Nov 21 21:06:01 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [HTML] cleanup based on? In-Reply-To: <3A1B3688.6BD3A19B@oracular.com> References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> <009901c05428$94415af0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A1B2D24.7B8AB7F8@oracular.com> <3A1B3688.6BD3A19B@oracular.com> Message-ID: At 8:59 PM -0600 11/21/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: >you shouldn't have to take them by article number.. if you just take the >template for the article page, that should be it.. for example, the >article template is in public_html/test/article/dsp_article.cfm > >does that make sense? Yup, totally. Marlene From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 21:06:36 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 21:06:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? References: <3A1AE413.2060606@oracular.com> <009901c05428$94415af0$40aefea9@DWARFS> <3A1B2D24.7B8AB7F8@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1B376E.D3EA3DCC@oracular.com> i'll leave that to you guys to decide what is better, CSS wise. what we have on thesite right now *isnt* what adrians template is.. we're about a version behind adrians final template. if things work better that we currently have, lets use them. .djc. Marlene Bruce wrote: > > Okee dokee. Elfur and David, do you want to divvy up articles by number? > > Hey, Adrian's style application is different than what's currently > being used on the test site. Some of the differences are better. > Shouldn't we finalize the CSS before proceeding? > > Marlene > > At 8:19 PM -0600 11/21/00, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > >basically, go over the source and pick out any shit that doesn't belong > >there.(font tags for example) and put stuff that should be there but > >isn't in there. use adrians style guide for direction: > >http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/ > > > >also, we need to check the access keys across the site(some of them may > >be the same) and tabindex's.. alot of that stuff I have no clue about :) > > > >if you guys could communicate on thesite list with [html] in the > >subject, that might be a good thing so everyone else knows what you're > >working on and doesn't overwrite it or re-do it.. > > > >lemme know if you guys need more direction, and big thanks :) > > > >.djc. > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From mccreath at ak.net Tue Nov 21 22:27:35 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Tue Nov 21 22:27:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've never used ICQ. No time like the present, I guess. I'll get it set up and let you know. > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Marlene Bruce > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:52 PM > To: Daniel J. Cody; elfur at lists.evolt.org; marlene at lists.evolt.org > Cc: thesite at lists.evolt.org; McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us > Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? > > > Hey, my email at home is being wonky again. It won't send now (I'm > trying everything I can to get these last three emails through). I > think we should exchange ICQ #'s and try to have ICQ up when we're > online. This could help in times like this. > > Mine is: 25960815 > Elfur's: 66751869 > David's: ? > > Marlene > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ From dcody at oracular.com Tue Nov 21 23:02:15 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Nov 21 23:02:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question Message-ID: <3A1B5281.C99B87C3@oracular.com> just wondering if it would be feasable for us to use .png's instead of .gif's for our images on the new site. we dont have a lot of images, but i was just looking to get some feedback on this.. thnx :) .djc. From elfur at lists.evolt.org Tue Nov 21 23:09:35 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 21 23:09:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question References: <3A1B5281.C99B87C3@oracular.com> Message-ID: <02ec01c05442$ff38c860$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "Daniel J. Cody" | just wondering if it would be feasable for us to use .png's instead of | .gif's for our images on the new site. we dont have a lot of images, but | i was just looking to get some feedback on this.. what about backwards compatibility, isn't ditching .gifs a little to far gone. .png isn't supported in netscape until, what 6.0?? was it earlier? *the compatible one rests* From r937 at interlog.com Tue Nov 21 23:22:54 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Nov 21 23:22:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question Message-ID: <01c05444$555ad7a0$d94d149a@default> png crashes netscape 3 not that anybody uses netscape 3 anymore, except web developers using it as a quick and dirty test to make sure css pages still look okay in non-css browsers.... rudy From isaac at members.evolt.org Wed Nov 22 00:01:20 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Wed Nov 22 00:01:20 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question In-Reply-To: <01c05444$555ad7a0$d94d149a@default> Message-ID: > png crashes netscape 3 > > not that anybody uses netscape 3 anymore, except web developers > using it as > a quick and dirty test to make sure css pages still look okay in non-css > browsers.... i use it when browsing news sites all the time. (my Hosts file blocks various ad servers, and various other browsers 404 the entire page in some instances if they can't get to the ilayered banner ad. nn3 survives those sites ok.) what's wrong with using GIFs? i From erika at seastorm.com Wed Nov 22 01:03:23 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Wed Nov 22 01:03:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question In-Reply-To: <01c05444$555ad7a0$d94d149a@default> References: <01c05444$555ad7a0$d94d149a@default> Message-ID: Working around universities, I see a lot of Netscape 3. Every time the news guy next to me opens his (NN3) browser, it pops up a Y2K alert. It's kind of charming... Not that he ever visits evolt... Erika (maybe evolt SHOULD crash Netscape 3. although I'm kind of fond of that browser. can we work on crashing IE3,too?) >png crashes netscape 3 > >not that anybody uses netscape 3 anymore, except web developers using it as >a quick and dirty test to make sure css pages still look okay in non-css >browsers.... > > >rudy erika at seastorm.com From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Nov 22 07:25:21 2000 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Nov 22 07:25:21 2000 Subject: [thesite] Article for the content TTDL Message-ID: <8025699F.0049768E.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com> Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Marlene Can you add this? Ta M (PS - something for the general TTDL: An article proposals list on theAdminSite, complete with person allocated, date allocated, date due. ATM I'm munging it by submitting an article with no content) ---------------------- Forwarded by Martin P Burns/UK/MCS/PwC on 22/11/2000 12:51 --------------------------- To: wpanderson at wsatkins.co.uk cc: Subject: RE: [thelist] Dropdowns - good or bad? (Document link: Database 'Martin P Burns', View '($Sent)') This memo has been sent or received by parties external to PricewaterhouseCoopers Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Sorry about the slightly dismissive reply to thelist. What I *will* do if I get time is to write up that rant into a sensible article and put it on thesite (and on my own site too), so you can point clients there. Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business. PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business. PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Nov 22 07:32:42 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Nov 22 07:32:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] another quickie question In-Reply-To: <3A1B5281.C99B87C3@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1B8310.90.3B32A6A5@localhost> > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > just wondering if it would be feasable for us to use .png's instead of > .gif's for our images on the new site. we dont have a lot of images, but > i was just looking to get some feedback on this.. given the lack of support, and the issues mentioned in other responses, i think using .png would be premature right now... From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Nov 22 07:37:37 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Nov 22 07:37:37 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? In-Reply-To: <3A1B376E.D3EA3DCC@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1B8430.16840.3B370BFA@localhost> the CSS on my site is the final CSS you should use... you should *not* create any new styles... ultimately, all you need to do is copy the CSS document and you are done with the linked style sheet... that one validates, and it's the template jeff is using for the style changer... don't worry about the units, those are temporary... so: http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/isaac.css is the correct one... you'll note all the comments throughout as well... > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > i'll leave that to you guys to decide what is better, CSS wise. what we > have on thesite right now *isnt* what adrians template is.. we're about > a version behind adrians final template. if things work better that we > currently have, lets use them. > > Marlene Bruce wrote: > > > > Okee dokee. Elfur and David, do you want to divvy up articles by number? > > > > Hey, Adrian's style application is different than what's currently > > being used on the test site. Some of the differences are better. > > Shouldn't we finalize the CSS before proceeding? From marlene at lists.evolt.org Wed Nov 22 10:07:12 2000 From: marlene at lists.evolt.org (Marlene Bruce) Date: Wed Nov 22 10:07:12 2000 Subject: [thesite] [HTML] cleanup based on? In-Reply-To: <3A1B8430.16840.3B370BFA@localhost> References: <3A1B8430.16840.3B370BFA@localhost> Message-ID: Got it, thanks Adrian. Marlene >the CSS on my site is the final CSS you should use... you should >*not* create any new styles... ultimately, all you need to do is copy >the CSS document and you are done with the linked style sheet... >that one validates, and it's the template jeff is using for the style >changer... don't worry about the units, those are temporary... > >so: >http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/isaac.css > >is the correct one... you'll note all the comments throughout as >well... From elfur at lists.evolt.org Wed Nov 22 12:52:04 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Wed Nov 22 12:52:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] distributing workload References: Message-ID: <015701c054b5$e832c8f0$40aefea9@DWARFS> After going through the files on test.evolt.org trying to figure out how to distribute our workload, I have some questions 1. The files we're going to work on are the dsp_ files, they are as follows: test/article (6) test/comment (3) test/contact (2) test/ (4) test/faq (1) test/home (1) test/login (3) test/logout (1) test/member (6) test/rating (2) test/sidebar (7) test/style (1) test/user (5) total: 42 dsp_ files what's the difference between user and member? 2. there are four folders I don't have permission to access: test/admin test/files test/michiel test/temp I have no idea if there are any dsp_ files there that we have to access. 3. Dan suggested the following work exchange mar: front page, login pages david: article pages/member pages elfur: center pages, admin pages according to my access to test.evolt.org there are no center pages or admin pages, but other than that, the suggestion looks good. My suggestion derived from dans: (trying to keep similar pages together) Marlene: test/home (1) test/ (4) (the header and footer and sidebar) test/login (3) test/logout (1) test/sidebar (7) test/contact (2) total: (18) David david: article pages/member pages test/article (6) test/comment (3) test/rating (2) test/faq (1) test/style (1) center pages total: (13 + centers) Elfur elfur: center pages, admin pages test/member (6) test/user (5) admin pages total: (11 + admin) this is of course provided that the center pages and admin pages aren't that many. *the organized one rests* [elfur] From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Wed Nov 22 13:08:23 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Wed Nov 22 13:08:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] RE: [html] distributing workload Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> Rock on, elfur! That looks good to me. I have work to tend to today and a social obligation this evening, but Thursday and Friday are holidays for me, so I can buckle down and bust through all that. Are US people going to be around/online tomorrow (it's Thanksgiving for our non-US pals)? I probably will be in the morning and maybe the evening. Friday for sure. Now that I've caught up with the 90's and gotten an ICQ number, I'll keep that live. (Is there anyway to move a user list from one machine to another or do I need to go through the steps of building it again on my work machine?) Dave From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Nov 22 13:13:57 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Nov 22 13:13:57 2000 Subject: [thesite] RE: [html] distributing workload In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> Message-ID: <200011221913.eAMJDuh09319@farmer.oracular.com> > From: McCreath_David > > Rock on, elfur! That looks good to me. I have work to tend to today and a > social obligation this evening, but Thursday and Friday are holidays for me, > so I can buckle down and bust through all that. Are US people going to be > around/online tomorrow (it's Thanksgiving for our non-US pals)? I probably > will be in the morning and maybe the evening. Friday for sure. i hope to be missing tomorrow, but i know i can't avoid the web that long... in short, i will be busy... > Now that I've caught up with the 90's and gotten an ICQ number, I'll keep > that live. (Is there anyway to move a user list from one machine to another > or do I need to go through the steps of building it again on my work > machine?) dunno, but i brought all my install files from home and just started copying until it either broke ICQ or got my list... it worked... From walker at sdproductions.com Wed Nov 22 13:30:52 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Wed Nov 22 13:30:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltclone sql In-Reply-To: <200011221913.eAMJDuh09319@farmer.oracular.com> References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001122124421.02f092e0@popd.sdproductions.com> Dan, I was wondering if you had the schema of the evoltclone db as an sql file... i'd like to replicate the db on my local server... thanks -w ________________________________________ walker fenton walker at sdproductions.com 303.722.5473 From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Wed Nov 22 14:51:32 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca) Date: Wed Nov 22 14:51:32 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltclone sql Message-ID: hi walker ordinarily i would have it right handy (i always keep the model in sql format) however, it's at home and it needs doublechecking to make sure i have everything the way we left it after codefest2 assuming dan hasn't made additional db changes, i can post my sql within a day or so -- soon enough? unless perhaps dan can generate a script using toad or some oracle utility, in which case i'd go with that, as it would be totally more reliable -- mine is, after all, an offline version do you need the pks and fks as well? i've got a couple of them, on the newer tables, as well as two honest-to-goodness non-trivial constraints!! create table rating (ratingid number(8) primary key ,userid number(8) not null references users ,contentid number(8) not null references content , constraint oneratingperuserperarticle unique (userid,contentid) ,datecreated date default sysdate not null ,lastmod date default sysdate not null ,ratingvalue number(1) not null , constraint ratingbetween1and5 check (ratingvalue between 1 and 5) ); rudy From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 22 14:59:28 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 22 14:59:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltclone sql References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> <5.0.0.25.0.20001122124421.02f092e0@popd.sdproductions.com> Message-ID: <3A1C3366.7030601@oracular.com> Sure thing. lemme know if you need anything else. .djc. walker wrote: > > > Dan, > > I was wondering if you had the schema of the evoltclone db as an sql > file... > > i'd like to replicate the db on my local server... > > thanks > > -w -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: evoltclone.sql URL: From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 22 15:01:06 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 22 15:01:06 2000 Subject: [thesite] evoltclone sql References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> <5.0.0.25.0.20001122124421.02f092e0@popd.sdproductions.com> <3A1C3366.7030601@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1C33C8.9050907@oracular.com> hmm. you may have to take out the tablespace and extent info walker.. that's probably different on your server.. Daniel J. Cody wrote: > Sure thing. > > lemme know if you need anything else. > > ..djc. > > walker wrote: > >> >> >> Dan, >> >> I was wondering if you had the schema of the evoltclone db as an sql >> file... >> >> i'd like to replicate the db on my local server... >> >> thanks >> >> -w > From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 22 15:25:11 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 22 15:25:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [html] distributing workload References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F016021E5@EXPO1> Message-ID: <3A1C3965.1090506@oracular.com> I'll be gone tonite/tomorrow for the holiday, but be back all of the weekend. my icq # is 5119011 :) .djc. McCreath_David wrote: > Rock on, elfur! That looks good to me. I have work to tend to today and a > social obligation this evening, but Thursday and Friday are holidays for me, > so I can buckle down and bust through all that. Are US people going to be > around/online tomorrow (it's Thanksgiving for our non-US pals)? I probably > will be in the morning and maybe the evening. Friday for sure. > > Now that I've caught up with the 90's and gotten an ICQ number, I'll keep > that live. (Is there anyway to move a user list from one machine to another > or do I need to go through the steps of building it again on my work > machine?) > > Dave From elfur at elfur.is Thu Nov 23 17:40:00 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Thu Nov 23 17:40:00 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] changed my first page - the user page - some drastic changes ... Message-ID: <007401c055a7$5017f2a0$40aefea9@DWARFS> Well, not drastic in the sense that I ruined everything, I think I did put it better in shape with the lines that have been drawn, but ... please go to http://test.evolt.org pick an article submitter of your own choice and hit the link. Afterwards I'd like to hear your comments, if any. thanks [elfur] From isaac at members.evolt.org Thu Nov 23 18:42:28 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Thu Nov 23 18:42:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] changed my first page - the user page - some drastic changes ... In-Reply-To: <007401c055a7$5017f2a0$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: > Well, not drastic in the sense that I ruined everything, I > think I did put it better in shape with the lines that have > been drawn, but ... don't know what it looked like before, but it looks fine now. one bug on the user page: Unlocking MS Access MDB Files [Comments: 3] - [Rating: 5 of 1 Ratings] 5 of 1 Ratings? this should be changed to match the output on the frontdoor i guess clicking member info gives me: http://test.evolt.org/member/isaac/2751/evolt.borg and an edit data button. i hit that and get this url which goes to the frontdoor: http://test.evolt.org/alphaboxcontroller.cfm/s/member/evolt/new/mid/2751 member stuff not done yet, or is screwing up? another bug - trying to edit a comment. edit link is: http://test.evolt.org/comment/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=26&aid=4165&cid=422 8 404 on a cfinclude: document position (11:3) to (11:45) in the template file: /home/evolttest/public_html/test/app_comment.cfm. btw, admin article and comments boxes are gonna be so useful. looking cool. i From elfur at lists.evolt.org Thu Nov 23 18:50:51 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Thu Nov 23 18:50:51 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] changed my first page - the user page - some drastic changes ... References: Message-ID: <000701c055b1$37a1b210$40aefea9@DWARFS> From: "isaac" | Unlocking MS Access MDB Files | [Comments: 3] - [Rating: 5 of 1 Ratings] | | | 5 of 1 Ratings? | | this should be changed to match the output on the frontdoor i guess I agree, but what I need there is a short text that says it all, just few words, and I don't have them in english right now. | | clicking member info gives me: | http://test.evolt.org/member/isaac/2751/evolt.borg | and an edit data button. | | i hit that and get this url which goes to the frontdoor: | http://test.evolt.org/alphaboxcontroller.cfm/s/member/evolt/ new/mid/2751 | | member stuff not done yet, or is screwing up? Yes, this is still work in progress, mainly I need those programmers to generate some resaults before I can make them look good :-) | another bug - trying to edit a comment. | edit link is: | http://test.evolt.org/comment/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=26& aid=4165&cid=422 | 8 | | 404 on a cfinclude: | document position (11:3) to (11:45) in the template file: | /home/evolttest/public_html/test/app_comment.cfm. | Well, this I leave to the programmers, I know nothing about CF. | | btw, admin article and comments boxes are gonna be so useful. looking cool. I have to agree with you there. *the interfering one rests* From javier at msm.cl Fri Nov 24 07:50:02 2000 From: javier at msm.cl (javier velasco) Date: Fri Nov 24 07:50:02 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Mail Alert! - 24-Nov-2000 References: <200011241324.HAA12453@poet.oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A1E7136.DF9136C6@msm.cl> i got the same error as Martin "evolt.org info" wrote: > There is a mail message on the evolt site- > From: martin > Date: 24-Nov-00 > Time: 07:26 AM > Message: > > Trying to look at javi's 'hello there' article when logged in. Got this error: > > Error Occurred While Processing Request > Error Diagnostic Information > > An error occurred while evaluating the expression: > > "#getuserlogin.recordcount#" > > Error near line 13, column 48. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Error resolving parameter GETUSERLOGIN.RECORDCOUNT > > ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: > > You have misspelled the parameter name, or > You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag. > > The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CF_QUERYOUTPUT), occupying document position (13:1) to (13:74) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/index.cfm. > > Date/Time: Fri Nov 24 07:25:13 2000 > Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) > Remote Address: 164.38.32.1 > HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=login > > Would someone please answer it? Thank you sexily. > http://evolt.org/admin/ > > > ___________________________________________________ > evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. -- javier velasco web architect MSM Interactive http://www.msm.cl - work http://mantruc.com - me http://evolt.org - family From joshua at alphashop.net Fri Nov 24 09:30:54 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Fri Nov 24 09:30:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] test.evolt - urls to articles References: Message-ID: <007901c0562c$0e9c2dc0$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> One more quick comment about not ending the urls in something predictable, such as "index.cfm", giving a url such as www.evolt.org/articles/i_am_still_asleep.cfm When parsing the urls as evolt is doing, it *would* be nice to end with the article_name.cfm, but parsing such an animal is heneious (sp?) if you are ALSO trying to deal with the issue where the user fails to put any filename on the end of the url, such as www.evolt.org/articles/go_back_to_bed or www.evolt.org/articles/go_back_to_bed/ When parsing those, you'd really not be able to determing easily and reliably what the last parameter to the url is. In the case of articles, it may be easy, but imagine a larger app such as ecommerce where you may have stacked categories and subcategories. The urls www.evolt.org/store/shoes/nike/index.cfm and www.evolt.org/store/shoes/nike/court_shoes obviously the intended targets are the main page for Nike products section and Nike's court shoes. But, if you allowed the flexibility of allowing the last paramenter in the file name, you'd really not know wether to discard or use the last url parameter in the selection of the category. Does Nike really sell shoes in the "index" category? I don't know. But, for maximum user friendliness, it's difficult (though possible with some seriously cludgy "assumptions") to allow for that url format. Hopefully that makes sense. -joshua From mccreath at ak.net Fri Nov 24 12:12:34 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Fri Nov 24 12:12:34 2000 Subject: [thesite] error on test Message-ID: Mornin', everyone -- I'm getting an error on the homepage of test.evolt.org. I also can't log in. Don't know if this is something that's already been noted or if it's work in progress: Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "#getuserlogin.recordcount#" Error near line 13, column 48. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Error resolving parameter GETUSERLOGIN.RECORDCOUNT ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CF_QUERYOUTPUT), occupying document position (13:1) to (13:74) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/index.cfm. Date/Time: Fri Nov 24 11:54:05 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) Remote Address: 24.237.79.177 From mccreath at ak.net Fri Nov 24 12:43:50 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Fri Nov 24 12:43:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] accesskey and form id attributes Message-ID: couple of questions: Are we assigning accesskeys to *all* form elements? Do we have a standard for picking the key? Some forms have both the "name" and "id" attribute and some don't. Should we be adding the missing piece to the forms that don't have both? From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Nov 24 14:28:43 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Nov 24 14:28:43 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] accesskey and form id attributes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200011242028.eAOKSgh28409@farmer.oracular.com> > From: "David McCreath" > > Are we assigning accesskeys to *all* form elements? no, select menus (for some reason the W3C doesn't immediately give) don't get them... radio buttons and checkboxes can take them, but often i leave them out in favor of good tab order (otherwise you use up the entire alphabet in no time)... > Do we have a standard for picking the key? the forms that are always there get first dibs... so 's' is taken by Search and 'l' is taken by Log In... same thing for tabindex... all form elements should have one, starting with the constants (the blacknav one and the ones in the right side), and then jump to some much higher number to start cascading to elements generated on a per-page basis... also, using tabindex or accesskey for hyperlinks has the unfortunate tendency to activate the hyperlink in some browsers, instead of just giving it focus, so i've opted to leave them off hyperlinks... > Some forms have both the "name" and "id" attribute and some don't. Should we > be adding the missing piece to the forms that don't have both? forms that need the 'id' attribute are those that will be referenced by
    ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From seb at admin.evolt.org Sun Nov 26 15:00:11 2000 From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb) Date: Sun Nov 26 15:00:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] Wierd bug References: <016d01c057bb$4a89f570$1700000a@issntdev57> <3A216F8B.3FE1FE09@oracular.com> Message-ID: <004501c057eb$f23f0000$1700000a@issntdev57> thanks Dan, but you oughta check your sql syntax... SQL = "UPDATE content SET categoryid = '22', datemod = '11/26/2000', contentname = 'The Fire Is So Delightful...', synopsis = 'I like to burn things.... pa said it''s best to burn books but I like burning meerkats...', body = :1 signoff = 3 WHERE contentid = 4237" I'm getting "ORA-00933: SQL command not properly ended" which isn't too bad compared to the previous problems.... Seb. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] Wierd bug > seb, give this a whirl again when you get a chance.. it looks like there > was no tag in > teh tag which we need to insert values larger than 2k > > thnx.. > > .djc. > > Seb wrote: > > > > I actually submitted the article in question and it was all okay. then when > > I editied it, I got the following on submission: > > > > (Be warned, I've pasted the *entire* error message. It's a bit long. =) > > > > Error Diagnostic Information > > Oracle Error Code = 1704 > > > > ORA-01704: string literal too long > > > > SQL = "UPDATE content SET categoryid = '22', datemod = '11/26/2000', > > contentname = 'The Fire Is So Delightful...', synopsis = 'I like to burn > {snip} > > Very long. Very long indeedly doo.', signoff = 3 WHERE contentid = 4237" > > > > Data Source = "EVOLTCLONE" > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From joshua at alphashop.net Sun Nov 26 15:03:13 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Sun Nov 26 15:03:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] CSS related bug? References: <01c057b4$8dc06560$2d4d149a@default> <3A216EA3.1D87A257@oracular.com> Message-ID: <011201c05805$f8876f00$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> shortening the execution time of the "last 5 query" might be facilitated by keeping a separate table that holds the last five messages. The table would truly only contain the last five posts on the list. Is there such a thing as an insert trigger to automate the process for you? -joshua From mccreath at ak.net Sun Nov 26 15:46:50 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sun Nov 26 15:46:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] new category suggestion on submission page Message-ID: Hi ho -- At the bottom of the submission page is this block of text: "You can use simple HTML in your article. ,

    , etc will all work. Or would you like to suggest a new category for this article? All submitted articles are reviewed by our editorial staff, and we reserve the right not to post objectionable content." First, should that say "suggest a new *topic*" instead? Second, would it make more sense for that to be directly below the pull down for the topics? Third, should we instead provide an "Other" option in the menu and a text field for the suggestion? That could lead to too many suggestions, but it's an idea. We could still reserve the right to put the article under an existing topic. Dave From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 16:27:18 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Nov 26 16:27:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] isaac.css is live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A214621.28234.51AE7CD3@localhost> > From: "David McCreath" > > Just in case anybody's wondering, I hooked up the final default css file > (isaac.css). Rather than overwrite "styles.cfm", I uploaded "isaac.css" and > changed the link in "home_design.cfm". If it should be done differently for coolio... > any reason, let me know. I assume that this will keep the style editor from > working, but I can already see additional changes that I need to make to > some pages that I already did. also coolio... > I also left in "tab_nav.css" until we get the new tab header onto the site. sounds good... you da man... thank god... if i were doing it with my schedule right now, i'd still be sorting files in an FTP window... From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 16:38:34 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Nov 26 16:38:34 2000 Subject: [thesite] new category suggestion on submission page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A2148BC.6142.51B8ABCB@localhost> > From: "David McCreath" > > First, should that say "suggest a new *topic*" instead? i say yes, since that is the name of the select menu above... > Second, would it make more sense for that to be directly below the pull down > for the topics? yes, it would... > Third, should we instead provide an "Other" option in the menu and a text > field for the suggestion? That could lead to too many suggestions, but it's > an idea. We could still reserve the right to put the article under an > existing topic. that's not such a bad idea, but ultimately, we don't want people to think they can willy-nilly add sections... i'd say hold off on that for now... From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 16:43:40 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Nov 26 16:43:40 2000 Subject: [thesite] new category suggestion on submission page In-Reply-To: <3A2148BC.6142.51B8ABCB@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3A2149F2.30568.51BD64F9@localhost> another note... on that 'preview' page, we should not call the '< Message-ID: > another note... on that 'preview' page, we should not call the > '< button before scrolling down)... we should call it an edit button... Well, that brings up a point. That '< <3A216F8B.3FE1FE09@oracular.com> <004501c057eb$f23f0000$1700000a@issntdev57> Message-ID: <3A219D76.CF3B5137@oracular.com> Sorry, was in a hurry before. try it agian :) .djc. Seb wrote: > > thanks Dan, but you oughta check your sql syntax... From dcody at oracular.com Sun Nov 26 17:51:25 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 26 17:51:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query References: <01c057b4$8dc06560$2d4d149a@default> <3A216EA3.1D87A257@oracular.com> <011201c05805$f8876f00$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: <3A21A154.B486C350@oracular.com> there is, but i have no clue how to do it. our main oracle DBA has been on vacation for a couple weeks, and i was going to run stuff by him. i'll ask him about this too, although i'd wonder if the overhead of the trigger would negate any other benefits.. i'll get this by him tomorrow though, thanks :) .djc. Joshua OIson wrote: > > shortening the execution time of the "last 5 query" might be facilitated by > keeping a separate table that holds the last five messages. The table would > truly only contain the last five posts on the list. Is there such a thing > as an insert trigger to automate the process for you? > From dcody at oracular.com Sun Nov 26 17:52:20 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 26 17:52:20 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] isaac.css is live References: <3A214621.28234.51AE7CD3@localhost> Message-ID: <3A21A18B.E4637B35@oracular.com> +3 aardvark wrote: > > > From: "David McCreath" > > > > Just in case anybody's wondering, I hooked up the final default css file > > (isaac.css). Rather than overwrite "styles.cfm", I uploaded "isaac.css" and > > changed the link in "home_design.cfm". If it should be done differently for > > coolio... > > > any reason, let me know. I assume that this will keep the style editor from > > working, but I can already see additional changes that I need to make to > > some pages that I already did. > > also coolio... > > > I also left in "tab_nav.css" until we get the new tab header onto the site. > > sounds good... > > you da man... thank god... if i were doing it with my schedule right > now, i'd still be sorting files in an FTP window... From dcody at oracular.com Sun Nov 26 17:53:15 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sun Nov 26 17:53:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] new category suggestion on submission page References: <3A2149F2.30568.51BD64F9@localhost> Message-ID: <3A21A1C2.8C76F083@oracular.com> +1 aardvark wrote: > > another note... on that 'preview' page, we should not call the > '< button before scrolling down)... we should call it an edit button... From mccreath at ak.net Sun Nov 26 17:57:27 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sun Nov 26 17:57:27 2000 Subject: [thesite] submission problem Message-ID: Hmm... Well, I've tried submitting an article three times today, and I'm getting the same error each time. It's looking for a parameter called "Article_Name" and I don't see anything on dsp_submit.cfm called that. There *is* something called "contentname". I've been REALLY careful about touching the CF code, so I don't think I changed it, but I might have done something. Has anybody else submitted an article to test recently and had it work? Has something changed on another page? From mccreath at ak.net Sun Nov 26 18:13:58 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sun Nov 26 18:13:58 2000 Subject: [thesite] submission problem part 2 Message-ID: Hokay -- The page causing the problem is actually article/act_process.cfm, I guess. There's a tag that's supposed to take the value of the "contentname" from dsp_submit and/or dsp_preview, but it's not finding it. Here's the full text of the error I get when I click the submit button on the preview page: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: #article_name# Error near line 245, column 34. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Error resolving parameter ARTICLE_NAME ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#article_name#), occupying document position (245:33) to (245:46) in the template file /home/evolttest/public_html/test/article/act_process.cfm. Date/Time: Sun Nov 26 17:50:07 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) Remote Address: 24.237.79.177 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action=preview&cfid=337 544&cftoken=99383017 Query String: section=article&action=process&cfid=337544&cftoken=99383017 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Ideas? Dave From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 18:21:29 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Nov 26 18:21:29 2000 Subject: [thesite] submission problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A2160CC.14323.5216ADCA@localhost> > From: "David McCreath" [...] > > I've been REALLY careful about touching the CF code, so I don't think I > changed it, but I might have done something. Has anybody else submitted an > article to test recently and had it work? Has something changed on another > page? yep, happened to me, too... From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Nov 26 18:31:29 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Nov 26 18:31:29 2000 Subject: [thesite] submission problem part 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: david, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: David McCreath : : The page causing the problem is actually article/act_process.cfm, : I guess. There's a tag that's supposed to take the value : of the "contentname" from dsp_submit and/or dsp_preview, but it's : not finding it. Here's the full text of the error I get when I click the : submit button on the preview page: : : [snip of error] : : Ideas? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i think i've got that fixed now. trying to fix an error that happens when you edit an article now. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From mccreath at ak.net Sun Nov 26 19:04:44 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sun Nov 26 19:04:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] submission problem part 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > i think i've got that fixed now. trying to fix an error that happens when > you edit an article now. Smoove. That took care of it. Thanks, Jeff! From dsmah at home.com Sun Nov 26 20:59:15 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Sun Nov 26 20:59:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] CSS related bug? In-Reply-To: <3A216EA3.1D87A257@oracular.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Nov 26, 2000 02:12:19 PM Message-ID: <200011270300.UAA01160@alice.monkeyland.ca> Dan, when I was working on the last 5 threads, I removed the select count ... from the query. Didn't think that it was doing anything. I also had to pull more than the last 5 posts to get the last 5 threads. Dean Daniel J. Cody writes: > blockfactor="75"> > select id, subject, author from posts > where id >= (select count(*) -5 from posts) > order by id desc > > > this appeared to me to be the same sort of query(get id where its > X) > as above, but it runs at right around 5 secs. i then threw a > cachedwithin attribute in there and its actually pretty quick now. > > so it used to take about 15 secs for that 'last 5 msgs on thelist' thing > to run, now its at about 5. i'm still going to have adam look over it > and see if theres any other way i can optimize it, but i'm not unhappy > with what we have now. From dsmah at home.com Sun Nov 26 21:02:44 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Sun Nov 26 21:02:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <3A21A154.B486C350@oracular.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Nov 26, 2000 05:48:36 PM Message-ID: <200011270304.UAA01171@alice.monkeyland.ca> I tend to stay away from triggers. I like to try to separate the business logic, database layer, and the presentation layer. Mixing them usually makes debugging the application more difficult. However, if you want to implement something like this, it would be relatively simple. You could write a PL/SQL or Java stored procedure to handle it. Dean Daniel J. Cody writes: > there is, but i have no clue how to do it. our main oracle DBA has been > on vacation for a couple weeks, and i was going to run stuff by him. > i'll ask him about this too, although i'd wonder if the overhead of the > trigger would negate any other benefits.. > > i'll get this by him tomorrow though, thanks :) From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 21:11:24 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Nov 26 21:11:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <200011270304.UAA01171@alice.monkeyland.ca> References: <3A21A154.B486C350@oracular.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Nov 26, 2000 05:48:36 PM Message-ID: <3A218A94.16482.52B1610E@localhost> > From: Dean Mah > > I tend to stay away from triggers. I like to try to separate the > business logic, database layer, and the presentation layer. Mixing > them usually makes debugging the application more difficult. i completely agree with this... no question it's the right approach... however... > However, if you want to implement something like this, it would be > relatively simple. You could write a PL/SQL or Java stored procedure > to handle it. i think a stored procedure in the database, while blurring the n-tier separation, is probably a good idea... i wish i could justify this more than the ramblings of an armchair database observer, but i'd rather see a stored procedure (which sits right in the db, right?) than a lot of CF (which needs to be parsed and all)... just a thought... take it or leave it... From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Nov 26 21:21:56 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Nov 26 21:21:56 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <200011270304.UAA01171@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: dean, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Dean Mah : : I tend to stay away from triggers. I like to try to separate : the business logic, database layer, and the presentation : layer. Mixing them usually makes debugging the application : more difficult. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ try to think of triggers as event handlers. you're doing the same thing when using constraints and foreign keys. you're initiating an action (be it an update, delete, etc) whenever another action occurs. the unfortunate side effect of keeping the separation you're talking about is an increase of code in the business logic side adding to an increase in potential coding errors as well as more convoluted logic. on top of that, the business logic is a much bigger hit to the system than a trigger which resides at the same level as the data it's interacting with. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : However, if you want to implement something like this, it : would be relatively simple. You could write a PL/SQL or : Java stored procedure to handle it. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i agree. however, i think there's an even better approach to this issue. rather than having a "last 5" table, why not just have a "last 5" file that's altered whenever there's an insert into the database. that way you're off-loading all the performance hit from the front-end (including the database hit to get the last 5 from a "last 5" table). all the system has to do is then include a file - a very minimal hit comparatively. just my 2c, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From dsmah at home.com Sun Nov 26 21:52:10 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Sun Nov 26 21:52:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: from "jeff" at Nov 26, 2000 07:21:26 PM Message-ID: <200011270353.UAA01304@alice.monkeyland.ca> jeff writes: > try to think of triggers as event handlers. you're doing the same > thing when using constraints and foreign keys. you're initiating an > action (be it an update, delete, etc) whenever another action > occurs. I would disagree. Using a trigger means implementing more than trivial business logic. Primary and foreign keys, and to a lesser extent, check constraints implement trivial data robustness checking. That said, I would never rely on database constraints. I'll always try to catch data inconsistencies within the application. > the unfortunate side effect of keeping the separation you're talking > about is an increase of code in the business logic side adding to an > increase in potential coding errors as well as more convoluted > logic. I don't necessarily agree. In my current environment, we've hired a programmer a week to help with quite a complex system for the last couple of months. Containing some of the business logic in the database usually makes it more difficult for them to find bugs and figure out the system. For example, it is usually more difficult for them to track down how a table is being changed when it is triggered by an update to another table. All of the industry (information technology in general) people that I've talked to, they've never had good things to say about the maintainability of triggers in a complex systems. Whether the additional code sits in the application layer or the database layer there is still the same potential for coding errors. And I wouldn't agree that the application code would have more convoluted logic than the database code. If anything, you need to know a couple of languages which makes the maintenance effort greater and requires a higher knowlegde level on the part of the developers. > i agree. however, i think there's an even better approach to this > issue. rather than having a "last 5" table, why not just have a > "last 5" file that's altered whenever there's an insert into the > database. I'd still like to see this implemented at the application level. Dean From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Nov 27 00:40:27 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Mon Nov 27 00:40:27 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <200011270353.UAA01304@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: dean, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Dean Mah : : Using a trigger means implementing more than trivial : business logic. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what would you call a trigger that performs a cascading delete to maintain data integrity in child tables? is this just trivial business logic or does it do the job (of maintaining relational integrity) at the closest point to the data? does it make sense to have the programmer have to remember that he must delete child records whenever he performs a delete on the parent table (which could conceivably happen in more than one place in the application)? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Primary and foreign keys, and to a lesser extent, : check constraints implement trivial data robustness : checking. That said, I would never rely on database : constraints. I'll always try to catch data inconsistencies : within the application. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i can agree with constraints. once the application is built, the constraints don't really play much of a role as the application code must be written to shield the user from the constraint errors anyway. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Containing some of the business logic in the database : usually makes it more difficult for them to find bugs and : figure out the system. For example, it is usually more : difficult for them to track down how a table is being changed : when it is triggered by an update to another table. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ where do you draw the line then? no triggers that affect the data on insert or update? what about triggers that delete dependent data when parent data is deleted? if you say that's a foreign key then you're wrong. a true foreign key can only restrict deletes. it can't perform a cascading delete. i still say the answer is to use the tools as close to the data as possible. if the programmer doesn't understand what's happening with the data then you have at least two problems on your hands. first, they're in over their head - too little knowledge or experience for what they've been asked to do. second, whoever is directing the project is doing a poor job of communicating the details of the project via database schemas, requirements documents, etc. now, if you're doing complex architecture changes with triggers like writing temp tables, adding/removing columns, changing datatypes, etc. then the problem isn't with triggers. the problem is with the approach to the problems. the solutions are causing more problems than they're solving. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : All of the industry (information technology in general) people : that I've talked to, they've never had good things to say about : the maintainability of triggers in a complex systems. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what exactly are you saying? how are they difficult to maintain? in my experience, i dare say that you can't efficiently build a solid database or application architecture without utilizing triggers in some form. if the database solution you're using is difficult to maintain and isn't giving you the flexibility and performance to offset that then it's time to find another database solution. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Whether the additional code sits in the application layer or : the database layer there is still the same potential for coding : errors. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ don't get me wrong. i completely agree with that. i'm just saying that the fewer lines of code you have to write, the less likely you are to make an error. again, in my experience it has always been easier to write code at the database level to perform the necessary tasks. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : And I wouldn't agree that the application code would have : more convoluted logic than the database code. If anything, : you need to know a couple of languages which makes the : maintenance effort greater and requires a higher knowlegde : level on the part of the developers. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i think it'd be fair to say that if you're a programmer that's working with building dynamic web applications you better be solid with more than just one or two languages. you better know the middleware language (asp, cf, php, etc.), you better know html, and you better know sql really well. nothing earth-shaking there. that's just the facts of building a quality solution. if you're not solid with these (and probably javascript as well) then you probably don't have any business being employed in that capacity. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : > i agree. however, i think there's an even better approach to : > this issue. rather than having a "last 5" table, why not just : > have a "last 5" file that's altered whenever there's an insert : > into the database. : : I'd still like to see this implemented at the application level. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ now we're saying the same thing. i think the performance hit should occur when a new record is inserted into the database - not whenever a visitor to the site requests a page. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Nov 27 06:06:10 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Mon Nov 27 06:06:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query References: Message-ID: <014e01c05884$1d275c20$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> Would there be too much of a hit to store the last five id's in an application scope variable. Is there a business logic reason (the multi-tier stuff is really new to me) why storing that information in the CFSERVER is not a good idea, other than the fact that if the server crashes or is otherwise shut down the information is lost (though it could be recalculated on server restart)? -joshua From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Nov 27 06:21:40 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Mon Nov 27 06:21:40 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query References: Message-ID: <015c01c05886$4aee5850$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> About my last post, The only reason I would stay away from application scope variables in this case is because of extensibility. Where does one draw the line of what should be store in application variables? The "last-5" might be a candidate, but what about usage information, or whatever is thought of next. At some point the application scope is going to get cluttered with odds and ends that are not accounted for as prototypes change. If there was only one developer, it may make sense, but with multiple developers the scope may become hard to manage since there is no really easy way to scrutenize what information is currently in the scope. The other reason I suggest not using the application scope is also extensibility. What if you want to change the information to "last-5-per-forum-or-per-article-category" In a DB you could just add an category_id field and change the triggers/SQL accordingly, whereas in application variables you'd have to rework the entire naming convention and do a whole lot of "evaluates" or some other kludgy method to insert and extract the information. At some point it becomes not worth it. Any other thoughts? -joshua From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Nov 27 13:17:26 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Mon Nov 27 13:17:26 2000 Subject: [thesite] Changing an "evolt" URL to a proper URL Message-ID: <021101c058c0$5ef39240$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> If you are looking to convert an evolt URL: www.evolt.org/foo/bar/articles/1/index.cfm To a proper url, you can use the following rules: The first folder after the domain becomes the "section" attrbute. The second folder after the domain becomes the "subsection" attribute. The following subfolders become the comma-delimited "params" attribute. so, the url above becomes www.evolt.org/index.cfm?section=foo&subsection=bar¶ms=articles,1 That's all there is to it. Hopefully this helps clear up some of the issues with submitting the pages to validators, as were previously noted. -joshua -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Mon Nov 27 14:35:04 2000 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Mon Nov 27 14:35:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] Automatic forwarding after login problem Message-ID: <3A22C474.24266.1E63C1@localhost> Hi, I've been away for a while and so haven't had a chance to help with the bug crushing effort. Sorry if this has been raised, I'm in the process of going through the backlog of email. I was just having a look at http://test.evolt.org, and after logging in I received the page confirming my login details but the automatic bounce back to the previous page failed with the error below: -----8<--------------8<--------------- Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "caller.attributes.#ListFirst(listElement, '=')#" = IIF(ListLen(listElement, '=') IS 2, "ListLast(listElement, '=')", DE("")) Error near line 63, column 12. Cannot set dynamic variable with name 'caller.attributes.%22'. The variable name is illegal. Variable names must start with a letter and can include only letters, numbers, and underscores. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFSET), occupying document position (63:5) to (63:137). Date/Time: Mon Nov 27 14:30:36 2000 Browser: Mozilla/3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) Remote Address: 212.38.165.87 HTTP Referer: "Why do you want to know where I was before visiting you?" ------8<-------------8<---------- This was in Opera 4.02 on Windows98 running through a Junkbuster proxy (hence the odd Referer line above). HTH G. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Mon Nov 27 14:41:52 2000 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Mon Nov 27 14:41:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] Automatic forwarding after login problem...more Message-ID: <3A22C606.4706.24888A@localhost> > I was just having a look at http://test.evolt.org, and after > > logging in I received the page confirming my login details but the > automatic bounce back to the previous page failed with the error > below: Just looking at the source of the page, this pops out at me: As it has grabbed the location.href from my Junkbuster setup, would it be better if whatever mechanism generated the line of javascript checked if the Referer is valid, if not, put a default (the index page lets say) entry in there instead? (I'm probably paranoid, but I prefer to have my HTTP-REFERER set that way... in case you were curious *:) G. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From dsmah at home.com Tue Nov 28 12:04:29 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Nov 28 12:04:29 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: from "jeff" at Nov 26, 2000 10:39:58 PM Message-ID: <200011281806.LAA01089@alice.monkeyland.ca> jeff writes: > what would you call a trigger that performs a cascading delete to > maintain data integrity in child tables? is this just trivial > business logic or does it do the job (of maintaining relational > integrity) at the closest point to the data? does it make sense to > have the programmer have to remember that he must delete child > records whenever he performs a delete on the parent table (which > could conceivably happen in more than one place in the application)? I'd write a library routine. Isolates the business logic and let's all developers use common code. > i can agree with constraints. once the application is built, the > constraints don't really play much of a role as the application code > must be written to shield the user from the constraint errors > anyway. Right. So to me, constraints don't really contain business logic. At least not business logic that exists elsewhere. > if the programmer doesn't understand what's happening with the data > then you have at least two problems on your hands. first, they're > in over their head - too little knowledge or experience for what > they've been asked to do. second, whoever is directing the project > is doing a poor job of communicating the details of the project via > database schemas, requirements documents, etc. Ideally, everything is documented. However, jump into a legacy system with little documentation and try to figure out what is going on and support it. As an example, what kind of design documents do we have for the evolt structure? If I wanted to jump in to the backend programming full time, what's the best way to learn the system as it exists? > now, if you're doing complex architecture changes with triggers like > writing temp tables, adding/removing columns, changing datatypes, > etc. then the problem isn't with triggers. the problem is with the > approach to the problems. the solutions are causing more problems > than they're solving. Sure but this partially gets back to your question of where do you draw the line. In my current development environment, we've chosen to draw the line at no triggers or stored procedures. A couple of the reasons are: 1) Separate business logic from presentation and database layers. Make it easier to change models. Make it easier for developers to see the separation. 2) Do not rely on Oracle as a database. In theory our product can use any database in the back without having to worry about converting triggers and stored procedures to the database's specific language and which features are supported. For example, MySQL doesn't support triggers at this point. > :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > : Whether the additional code sits in the application layer or > : the database layer there is still the same potential for coding > : errors. > :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > don't get me wrong. i completely agree with that. i'm just saying > that the fewer lines of code you have to write, the less likely you > are to make an error. Sounds like an argument for code re-use. You can get the separation without having to re-write the same routines over and over again. > i think it'd be fair to say that if you're a programmer that's > working with building dynamic web applications you better be solid > with more than just one or two languages. you better know the > middleware language (asp, cf, php, etc.), you better know html, and > you better know sql really well. nothing earth-shaking there. > that's just the facts of building a quality solution. if you're not > solid with these (and probably javascript as well) then you probably > don't have any business being employed in that capacity. We require people to know those things but we don't expect them to know them at an expert level. We hire junior as well as intermediate / senior developers because of the marketplace and available resources. We can't expect everyone to be able to jump into a situation and know all of the required languages and tools. One less requirement makes it easier to fill positions. We also separate a lot of our work into teams. We have Java gurus, Perl gurus, user-interface people, database gods, QA teams, client handlers, network specialists, etc. We're getting away from the idea of the 'webmaster' where they need to know all of the languages, server configuration, network layout, operating system tuning, etc. > now we're saying the same thing. i think the performance hit should > occur when a new record is inserted into the database - not whenever > a visitor to the site requests a page. Sounds good. Perhaps one thing that we should keep in mind as the deadline gets closer, program for completeness now and refactor for performance and other things later. We don't want to miss a deadline by getting caught up in issues along the way. Dean From dsmah at home.com Tue Nov 28 12:06:14 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Nov 28 12:06:14 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <014e01c05884$1d275c20$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> from "Joshua OIson" at Nov 27, 2000 07:10:00 AM Message-ID: <200011281807.LAA01097@alice.monkeyland.ca> I don't know enough about Cold Fusion to say if this is robust enough or provides the performance that is needed so I can't talk to the technical merits of this solution. From a separation of business logic standpoint, I don't see anything wrong with it. Dean Joshua OIson writes: > Would there be too much of a hit to store the last five id's in an > application scope variable. Is there a business logic reason (the > multi-tier stuff is really new to me) why storing that information > in the CFSERVER is not a good idea, other than the fact that if the > server crashes or is otherwise shut down the information is lost > (though it could be recalculated on server restart)? From dsmah at home.com Tue Nov 28 12:11:25 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Nov 28 12:11:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <015c01c05886$4aee5850$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> from "Joshua OIson" at Nov 27, 2000 07:25:36 AM Message-ID: <200011281813.LAA01107@alice.monkeyland.ca> This sounds like something that the Composite design pattern should be able to handle. This simplifies designs and allows for easy extensibility. Check out: http://www.hillside.net/patterns/DPBook/DPBook.html Dean Joshua OIson writes: > The other reason I suggest not using the application scope is also > extensibility. What if you want to change the information to > "last-5-per-forum-or-per-article-category" In a DB you could just > add an category_id field and change the triggers/SQL accordingly, > whereas in application variables you'd have to rework the entire > naming convention and do a whole lot of "evaluates" or some other > kludgy method to insert and extract the information. At some point > it becomes not worth it. From walker at sdproductions.com Tue Nov 28 12:30:35 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Tue Nov 28 12:30:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] dead link checker. In-Reply-To: <200011281813.LAA01107@alice.monkeyland.ca> References: <015c01c05886$4aee5850$bfd11518@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128114423.02da92c8@popd.sdproductions.com> I'm about to upload the link checker that updates old links to the new directory convention. If I break something, please be patient. I will promptly change it back. talk to you all soon. -w _________________________________________ walker fenton walker at sdproductions.com 303.722.5473 From seth at sethbienek.com Tue Nov 28 13:18:37 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Tue Nov 28 13:18:37 2000 Subject: [thesite] last 5 query In-Reply-To: <200011281807.LAA01097@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: Hi All, Just got back from Vegas... Catching up on 500+ emails in the ol' inbox, and this thread caught my eye. > I don't know enough about Cold Fusion to say if this is robust enough.. I DO know enough about ColdFusion to say that storing this information in an Application scoped variable makes a whole lot of sense, for a couple of reasons: 1. We are talking about mere bytes of information, to be stored in the app server's RAM. If the server has any hair on it's ass whatsoever (or even if it doesn't, I just wanted to use the expression), robustness is not a problem. 2. As we all know, RAM is fast. Like, really, really fast. :) 3. The overhead of making any database calls from CF that are not necessary should be avoided. If you have information that is relatively static, and accessed often by multiple users, then by all means make the Application scope your bitch. Which brings me to my next point; er, caveat... The drawback: As far as I know, there is not a way to update an Application scoped CF variable from a database (unless a trigger can call a .cfm page). Maybe this can be done as part of the process that actually archives the mail message? I don't know too much about how this is currently done.. If someone wants to enlighten me, I may be able to propose a solution. To address Joshua's Concern: > The only reason I would stay away from application scope variables in this > case is because of extensibility. Where does one draw the line of what > should be store in application variables? The "last-5" might be a > candidate, but what about usage information, or whatever is > thought of next. Application scoped variables should almost always be set in the Application.cfm. One reason why is for just the reason you mentioned. You should be able to see at a glance exactly what is being saved in the server's memory. You could also write a quick little CF app to cycle through various scopes and tell you the variables and their values in each scope (I think there may already be a free custom tag in the Developer's exchange on Allaire's site that does this). As an example of leveraging the Application scope to enhance the performance of a site, check out: http://acep.org This is a content management/collaboration project I wrapped up a few months back, and since it was so database intensive, our load times were unacceptably high. We were taking our biggest hit overall on the site navigation. By loading the Pages table (containing page id's, navigation info, and short descriptions of each page) into a structure in an Application scoped varible, we reduced connections (and load) on the database server and cut the page load times in third! Since the web server and database server were seperate, and the web server had more than enough RAM (512 MB), loading the ~2500 row table (~5 MB) into memory made all the sense in the world. Check out the site, it's FAF. ;) Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ From walker at sdproductions.com Tue Nov 28 13:59:47 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Tue Nov 28 13:59:47 2000 Subject: [thesite] old link converter... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128130329.02f34600@popd.sdproductions.com> OK- here's what's up with the link converter. I changed index.cfm (in the site root) and added a file called change_old_links.cfm in the test directory. index.cfm looks for a url variable called menu. If that variable exists, it includes the change_old_links.cfm file and aborts everything else. on change_old_links.cfm: the old url variables are changed to their new names, and a splash screen is shown that tells the user that their old bookmark is invalid. The splash screen has a 4 second meta-redirect on it, so the visitor will get relocated to the article they were trying to get in the first place. If the redirect doesn't work, there is a link that they can click on to take them there. In the event that the link comes from an article that is already on the site- like Bob's links in the article he just wrote (he links to other articles on the site) - then the splash screen will not show- you will go immediately to that article. So basically - the converter works in both instances, but since we only really care about people who have bookmarked the site, they are the only ones who get the splash screen reminder. Jeff, let me know if there is a better place to put the redirection (if there is a better place than index.cfm) questions? comments? -w _________________________________________ walker fenton walker at sdproductions.com 303.722.5473 From elfur at elfur.is Tue Nov 28 14:01:02 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Nov 28 14:01:02 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Alert - testing internal links References: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128130156.02effc08@popd.sdproductions.com> Message-ID: <027101c05976$9bd4ee50$40aefea9@DWARFS> So I went to approve it but got an error on the way http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action= approve&tid=18&aid=4266 Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "#Replace(Trim(Replace(Replace(Replace(ReplaceList(form.cont entname, bad_chars, good_chars), ",", "", "ALL"), " ", " ", "ALL"), " ", " ", "ALL")), " ", "_", "ALL")#" Error near line 3, column 40. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Error resolving parameter FORM.CONTENTNAME The specified form field cannot be found. This problem is very likely due to the fact that you have misspelled the form field name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFPARAM), occupying document position (3:1) to (3:205). Date/Time: Tue Nov 28 14:01:17 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) Remote Address: 194.144.199.109 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/testing_internal_links/18/4266 /evolt.borg?cfid=346984&cftoken=4104878 Query String: section=article&action=approve&tid=18&aid=4266 ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- [elfur] ----- Original Message ----- From: "walker" To: Sent: 28. n?vember 2000 20:02 Subject: Re: [Admin] Article Alert - testing internal links | f! | | I goofed on the link that I wanted to test. Will someone please approve the | article (its on test.evolt.org) so that I can edit the link? | | thanks | | -w | | | At 01:45 PM 11/28/2000 +0000, you wrote: | | >There is a new article on thesite. | > | >Title: testing internal links | >Author: walker | >Date: 11/28/2000 | >Time: 1:45 PM CST(-0600) | >Synopsis: | > | >this is a test for an internal link. | > | >Article: | > | > | >http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=3618&catid=21

    | > | >if this works, all of the old links that are referenced internally will go | >directly to the article, without hitting the splash screen. | > | >if you test, and get a splash screen alerting you that the link is | >invalid, please let me know. | > | >-w | > | >Someone want to approve it? | > http://test.evolt.org/article/testing_internal_links/18/4266 /evolt.borg | > | > | >___________________________________________________ | >evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. | | _________________________________________ | walker fenton | walker at sdproductions.com | 303.722.5473 | | | ___________________________________________________ | evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. From walker at sdproductions.com Tue Nov 28 14:04:48 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Tue Nov 28 14:04:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] error while updating an article Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128131817.02b6e678@popd.sdproductions.com> fyi- I got the following error while trying to update my article (after clicking on the 'update my article' button). -w Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: #getcontent.who# Error near line 40, column 12. Error resolving parameter GETCONTENT.WHO ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#getcontent.who#), occupying document position (40:11) to (40:26). Date/Time: Tue Nov 28 14:05:18 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) Remote Address: 207.174.68.114 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=18&aid=4266 Query String: section=article&action=process _________________________________________ walker fenton walker at sdproductions.com 303.722.5473 From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Nov 28 15:02:59 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Tue Nov 28 15:02:59 2000 Subject: [thesite] old link converter... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128130329.02f34600@popd.sdproductions.com> Message-ID: walker, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: walker : : I changed index.cfm (in the site root) and added : a file called change_old_links.cfm in the test directory. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ lookin good so far :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : index.cfm looks for a url variable called menu. If : that variable exists, it includes the change_old_links.cfm : file and aborts everything else. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's one way of handing it i suppose. for now that makes for double the work with our design process as there are now two files with the site design in them. give me a few days to think about this approach. i'm sure there's a way to do this with a smaller footprint. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : on change_old_links.cfm: the old url variables are : changed to their new names, and a splash screen : is shown that tells the user that their old bookmark : is invalid. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ except where they don't exist and menu=8 you'll need to query the database to get the appropriate cat_id. defaulting it to 10 (news) won't work because the new site uses the tid (cat_id on the old site) as part of the query. if they don't exactly match - no article. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : The splash screen has a 4 second meta-redirect on : it, so the visitor will get relocated to the article they : were trying to get in the first place. If the redirect : doesn't work, there is a link that they can click on to : take them there. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ sounds fine. dan & rudy, we'll also need to have a table for recording these hits. it should have columns for things like url requested, http_referer, remote_addr, etc. the more details we have about a particular visit the easier it will be for us to track down these bad links to us and get them fixed. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : In the event that the link comes from an article that is : already on the site- like Bob's links in the article he just : wrote (he links to other articles on the site) - then the : splash screen will not show- you will go immediately : to that article. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ this also sounds good. i would encourage every author to edit their articles to reflect the new url format though. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : So basically - the converter works in both instances, but : since we only really care about people who have : bookmarked the site, they are the only ones who get the : splash screen reminder. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ of course. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Jeff, let me know if there is a better place to put the : redirection (if there is a better place than index.cfm) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i'm thinking that the template that handles the conversion from the old to the new should set the value of section to something like "not_found" and then i can just add a case for that in the app_chooser file. that way we can still wrap the current design around the error message without having to use a separate file. (i already asked for a couple of days to figure this out though *grin*) thanks for all your hard work, walker, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From walker at sdproductions.com Tue Nov 28 17:20:45 2000 From: walker at sdproductions.com (walker) Date: Tue Nov 28 17:20:45 2000 Subject: [thesite] old link converter... In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128130329.02f34600@popd.sdproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001128162133.00af6020@popd.sdproductions.com> Jeff, If you can figure out a way to keep the invalid url variables persistent after they are washed through the uta and application.cfm - then I think you should be able to use the app_chooser to wrap a look and feel around them... I would've liked to do it that way, but for some reason they wouldn't maintain persistence after going through the application and uta. I need to learn the system a little more. In putting together the change_old_links template i used static content for look and feel- not the includes) because I didn't know all of the variables that needed to be set before the page would show. I'll hammer on it a little more also and see if I can't figure something out. -w At 01:02 PM 11/28/2000 -0800, you wrote: >walker, > >i'm thinking that the template that handles the conversion from the old to >the new should set the value of section to something like "not_found" and >then i can just add a case for that in the app_chooser file. that way we >can still wrap the current design around the error message without having to >use a separate file. (i already asked for a couple of days to figure this >out though *grin*) From r937 at interlog.com Tue Nov 28 21:12:50 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Nov 28 21:12:50 2000 Subject: [thesite] relational integrity and the application layer Message-ID: <01c059b2$4afb2e40$734d149a@default> i wanted to comment on something that was part of another thread, so i've changed the subject line... >> i can agree with constraints. once the application is built, the >> constraints don't really play much of a role as the application code >> must be written to shield the user from the constraint errors >> anyway. > >Right. So to me, constraints don't really contain business logic. At >least not business logic that exists elsewhere. i know i'm jumping in late here, but with several decades of database experience, i just want to weigh in on the side that says constraints *are* part of the application layer real-life example from the evolt database: ratingvalue number(1) constraint checkrating not null check (ratingvalue between 1 and 5) another: alter table rating add (constraint oneratingperuserperarticle unique (userid,contentid)) i strongly disagree with the concept that "the application code must be written to shield the user from the constraint errors anyway" i think what happens is that in most cases, the application is written in a manner that is *aware* of the constraints, but does not necessarily attempt to *enforce* them in application code for example, the way we take ratings on articles, there's a set of radio buttons, and they correspond to values 1 through 5 note that the cf template that processes the form doesn't have to actually check to make sure that the form field has those values (if it doesn't, the form has been spoofed) -- that's done by the database this also protects the database from invalid values being entered through raw sql outside the application -- thus contradicting the idea that "once the application is built, the constraints don't really play much of a role" another consideration for letting the database do all the work (and not repeating it in application code) is that if you name your constraints well, and have a reasonable database error handling strategy in the application code, the application will merely inform the user as to why the action failed, using the database error message okay, some databases just return a code (like db2, where the most common error used to be -900, which meant "a database error occurred"), which makes it a bit more challenging to tell the user but why would you allow your programmers to reprogram a database error such as attempted insert would violate constraint "oneratingperuserperarticle" -- insert rejected seems pretty clear to me > Ideally, everything is documented. tee hee ;o) my philosophy on documentation is another (large) thread altogether, but basically, you should never write documentation that isn't stored inside the thing it documents so, if you want to find out what the database constraints are, just print them ;o) > As an example, what kind of design documents do we have > for the evolt structure? i had a data model at http://r937.com/oracle4.gif however, this is *not* current and i haven't done the new one yet oh yeah, you're saying, how come this isn't documented inside the database? well, it is, sorta -- but you need a $6000 piece of software like ERwin to reverse-engineer the diagram aside: sql/server has a diagramming option that is really very good > 2) Do not rely on Oracle as a database. In theory our product can use > any database in the back without having to worry about converting > triggers and stored procedures to the database's specific language > and which features are supported. For example, MySQL doesn't > support triggers at this point. very good point, and an admirable criterion i like your pragmatism hey, even foreign key constraints are application layer, if you think about it suppose you have a parent table and a child table most people are familiar with the "on delete" relational constraint -- if you delete a parent row, you can designate what you want to happen to the child rows, or whether you want the delete of the parent row to succeed one option is to delete all child rows whenever the parent is deleted (the "cascade"), and another option is to allow the delete of the parent *only if* there are no child rows that refer to it, otherwise the delete is disallowed (the "restrict") but now here's another view of relational integrity suppose you want to insert a child row if you don't have a the parent for the child row, you can designate the foreign key as nullable, in effect you allow the insert of the child with a null foreign key to the parent hypothetical example: insert an article without designating a centre/topic, which is added later by an editor alternatively, suppose you do have a value for the foreign key, but let's just say that it's for a parent key that is currently not in the parent table oh, this wouldn't be allowed to happen, you might think, but that's not necessarily so -- it depends on the application! one of the relational constraint options (in theory anyway, i don't see this implemented in too many databases) is to have a parent row automatically inserted if the child being inserted has a new value for the foreign key, i.e. parent's primary key that doesn't exist yet so the database just goes ahead and creates the parent row first, using the value of the to-be-inserted child's foreign key, and then proceeds with the insert of the child row aside: this strategy requires that all the parent's non-key fields are either nullable or have a default value, but that's pretty normal needless to say, you don't see this option in too many commercial databases, yet it's just as much a part of relational integrity as "on delete restrict" -- and if you need it, you have to build it now, would you rather build it using triggers or force the application code to do so? and what if there are multiple application code modules that insert child rows? wouldn't they all have to have the same logic? then wouldn't you want to split that off into a called module or something? sounds like a perfect place for a stored procedure or trigger to me... when you consider all the options that relational integrity offers, despite the fact that you do have to implement some of them in contemporary databases using triggers or stored procedures, it's pretty clear that these constraints depend very much on which child and parent tables you are talking about in other words, they are application layer rudy.ca From r937 at interlog.com Tue Nov 28 21:23:42 2000 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Nov 28 21:23:42 2000 Subject: [thesite] old link converter... Message-ID: <01c059b3$c9660ba0$734d149a@default> > except where they don't exist and menu=8 you'll need to > query the database to get the appropriate cat_id. i don't understand how the new sexy urls work, but in the old (current) site, as far as i can tell the only difference between http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=706 and http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=706&catid=17 is that when you go to the latter, the "code" centre link is lit up ("lit up" is a technical term, it's still a link, it just indicates that this article is in the "code" centre -- category 17) > defaulting it to 10 (news) won't work because the new site > uses the tid (cat_id on the old site) as part of the > query. if they don't exactly match - no article. um, why do it that way? should the cat be optional? or is this too hard to do in the new sexy url scheme? seems like we might be losing some functionality here -- i happen to know a few articles by their content id number (so i can type the url without first searching for it) -- if i had to know the category id as well, i'd be foobarred... > dan & rudy, we'll also need to have a table for recording these hits. > it should have columns for things like url requested, http_referer, > remote_addr, etc. sounds like a web server log not that i've got any qualms about loading a web server log into a database table, but in that case, why not grab all the columns that are available? how do packages like webtrends (i'm not really familiar with any of them) work? rudy.ca From erika at seastorm.com Tue Nov 28 22:53:43 2000 From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer) Date: Tue Nov 28 22:53:43 2000 Subject: [thesite] the site In-Reply-To: <200011281813.LAA01107@alice.monkeyland.ca> References: <200011281813.LAA01107@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: It seems like I'm always late for everything evolt. I just saw the request for help dated Nov. 21. My email is really tweaky lately, as is my home connection. Anyway, if I can help with anything, I guess you guys know what skills I have, & I'd like to help if I could. Please email meyer at up.edu and let me know if I can help with anything. Erika erika at seastorm.com From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 29 17:20:37 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 29 17:20:37 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] lists down? References: Message-ID: <3A258EDA.3080408@oracular.com> i'm still here more or less, not dead and buried yet :) i'll check it out. .djc. rudy wrote: > hi guys > > i see by visiting > http://lists.evolt.org/adminarchive/Week-of-Mon-20001127/date.html that > the admin list has sort of been working (light traffic) today, but i've > received nothing from thelist or thesite for hours... > > are they down or am i being blocked somehow? > > doesn't this always happen when dan's away, eh? > > ;o) > > > > ___________________________________________________ > evolt leads to relevant material cross-pollinating the popular culture. From dcody at oracular.com Wed Nov 29 17:40:35 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Nov 29 17:40:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] lists down? References: <3A258EDA.3080408@oracular.com> Message-ID: <3A259386.5010206@oracular.com> rudy - this went through to thesite with no probs.. and i just saw a couple posts come through to thelist in the last 30 mins.. slow day i guess.. .djc. Daniel J. Cody wrote: > i'm still here more or less, not dead and buried yet :) > > i'll check it out. > > ..djc. > > rudy wrote: > >> hi guys >> >> i see by visiting >> http://lists.evolt.org/adminarchive/Week-of-Mon-20001127/date.html >> that the admin list has sort of been working (light traffic) today, >> but i've received nothing from thelist or thesite for hours... >> >> are they down or am i being blocked somehow? >> doesn't this always happen when dan's away, eh? From dsmah at home.com Thu Nov 30 09:53:53 2000 From: dsmah at home.com (Dean Mah) Date: Thu Nov 30 09:53:53 2000 Subject: [thesite] relational integrity and the application layer In-Reply-To: <01c059b2$4afb2e40$734d149a@default> from "rudy" at Nov 28, 2000 10:13:06 PM Message-ID: <200011301555.IAA00885@alice.monkeyland.ca> rudy writes: > real-life example from the evolt database: > > ratingvalue number(1) > constraint checkrating not null > check (ratingvalue between 1 and 5) These were the type of simple check constraints that I was referring to before. To me, these contain as much business logic as primary and foreign key constraints and should be emulated in the application logic. > note that the cf template that processes the form doesn't have to > actually check to make sure that the form field has those values (if > it doesn't, the form has been spoofed) -- that's done by the > database Maybe it's because I come from a CGI with Perl background where you should be de-tainting and checking every bit of external input for robustness and security but I still like to do this in the application layer as well as in the database layer (check constraints) and the presentation layer (e.g. restricting input to certain values). > this also protects the database from invalid values being entered > through raw sql outside the application -- thus contradicting the > idea that "once the application is built, the constraints don't > really play much of a role" I'd agree. And this is why I've argued for check constraints in my current environment. Although, none of our non-IT users would use anything like SQL*Plus against the database. We develop internal tools to let them manipulate restricted sets of data. > but why would you allow your programmers to reprogram a database error such > as > > attempted insert would violate > constraint "oneratingperuserperarticle" -- > insert rejected > > seems pretty clear to me Perhaps to you, but some of our users do not even have a high school education. My guess is that they wouldn't understand this or care. We have different levels of error messages in our system. For example, when an error occurs, one message is set to the user and depending on the severity, messages are sent to the bug-fix team, our client services teams, network administrator, and/or logged to the database or log file. > my philosophy on documentation is another (large) thread altogether, > but basically, you should never write documentation that isn't > stored inside the thing it documents Check out Extreme Programming. > > As an example, what kind of design documents do we have > > for the evolt structure? > > i had a data model at http://r937.com/oracle4.gif > > however, this is *not* current and i haven't done the new one yet > > oh yeah, you're saying, how come this isn't documented inside the database? Actually, I was wondering what the database looks like but also where all the application code lives and what it does and how it interacts. For example, where is the static caching of the front page documented? How is it done? What code actually does it? What is the caching frequency? Does it cache automatically when new content is submitted? For a new person coming on, they'll have these questions and I don't think that they should have to bug the developer to find the answer. The developer may have since moved on and nobody has the knowledge of how it works without having to dig into the system. (That's the problem we face at my current job.) > so the database just goes ahead and creates the parent row first, > using the value of the to-be-inserted child's foreign key, and then > proceeds with the insert of the child row This kind of scares me. Allowing the database to grow on its own. Take on a like of its own. Ewww... :) I'd be worried about creating intelligent defaults in the parent table. If the tables were used for any kind of reporting before the parent table was filled in appropriately, it could lead to confusion. Just a gut feel though. > now, would you rather build it using triggers or force the > application code to do so? and what if there are multiple > application code modules that insert child rows? wouldn't they all > have to have the same logic? then wouldn't you want to split that > off into a called module or something? sounds like a perfect place > for a stored procedure or trigger to me... That's where we differ. Sounds like a library to me. Separation and common code. I know that you are arguing that triggers and stored procs can be seen as part of the application layer but I'd like to see a greater separation. A difference in philosphy. FWIW, I never though this way in my previous life as an Oracle DBA but now that I am a developer.... Maybe I'm just a control freak. Dean From seb at admin.evolt.org Thu Nov 30 10:30:09 2000 From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb) Date: Thu Nov 30 10:30:09 2000 Subject: Fw: [thesite] relational integrity and the application layer Message-ID: <006e01c05aea$e407fdf0$dc34a8c0@issntdev57> Argh. I gotta sort out my freakin' SMTP server. Just sending this again for larfs. Seb. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seb" To: Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] relational integrity and the application layer > > Maybe I'm just a control freak. > > Me too. Exerting my freaky control, I say that this conversation could be > taken to [thelist] where it'll benefit a lot more people. =) > > Seb. >