From martin at easyweb.co.uk Sat Dec 1 05:09:29 2001 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Sat Dec 1 05:09:29 2001 Subject: [thesite] [BUG]: Someone is talking... Message-ID: No user name in notification ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 30/11/01 11:41 pm Received: 1/12/01 5:45 am From: info at evolt.org To: martin at members.evolt.org Hello Martin, has commented on a discussion thread you posted to evolt.org. Would you like to read what was written? http://www.evolt.org/article/view/22/17586/index.html#comments Thanks, evolt.org staff _______________________________________ (if you would like to turn off this automatic notification, you may do so on the site- just log in and click on 'Edit Account'.) ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From r937 at interlog.com Sat Dec 1 06:17:36 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Dec 1 06:17:36 2001 Subject: [thesite] [BUG]: Someone is talking... Message-ID: <01c17a62$4470a060$474e149a@rudy> > No user name in notification is it Brent? i had a quick look at the user record in the database he has LEAVEOUT=1 perhaps jeff can check to see if the notification logic uses this field rudy From jeff at members.evolt.org Sat Dec 1 06:23:30 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Sat Dec 1 06:23:30 2001 Subject: [thesite] [BUG]: Someone is talking... In-Reply-To: <01c17a62$4470a060$474e149a@rudy> Message-ID: rudy, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: rudy > > > No user name in notification > > is it Brent? i had a quick look at the user record in > the database > > he has LEAVEOUT=1 > > perhaps jeff can check to see if the notification logic > uses this field ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< no, it doesn't use this field. it appears the problem is caused by referencing a session variable which must have expired in this case. we have the userid of the person leaving the comment. when my brain is awake (been coding since 7am pacific) i'll look into fixing it. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Dec 1 09:51:48 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Dec 1 09:51:48 2001 Subject: [thesite] Posting Problems to thelist ? Message-ID: <00c501c17a80$7e120fc0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> I can't get posts to go through to thelist, nor the archive. Anyone else noticing a problem? No posts since .. 9:14 p.m. last night (EST) .. a bit unusual even for a weekend. Mich From dmah at shaw.ca Sat Dec 1 11:39:06 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sat Dec 1 11:39:06 2001 Subject: [thesite] [leo/teo/weo] Tip Harvester Links and Member Page In-Reply-To: <018601c16f9d$b5c01ea0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Nov 17, 2001 02:26:08 PM Message-ID: <200112011739.KAA02444@alice.monkeyland.ca> Sorry for the delay... - added a "tips" pagetitle2 to the member's profile page. - added an author pulldown to thetips search form. - changed "Article" to "Tip" in the results numbering. - removed the unlinked "Prev n Tips" and the "Next n Tips" although they do appear in the article results. The problem with the prev/next tip link when viewing tip is an outstanding problem. This is the same problem we discussed before. Still haven't decided if we are going to pull the next and prev ID numbers from a special query or if we should brute force a method. Dean Michele Foster writes: > My first suggestion would be to fix the user's page a bit .. and, > yes, I realize the Members' page will change greatly and is being > worked on independently. In the interim, we need to clean up the > User's Page .. before we roll teo to weo. > > The link to the author's tips is lost ... I'd suggest making this > part look the same as the articles .. in as much as adding a > pagetitle2 title called "tips" with the link to search underneath, > then the articles .. just separate the info out so one can see it > better. > > The Bio should go on this page too .. in the interim .. Jeff, where are you > putting the "form" for people to enter their bio? > > Back to the tips search ... clicking on the link from the author's page > displays the tips on leo .. we need to make this page more user friendly I > think. Here's my link: > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/index.html?userid=4292 > > The search boxes at the top of this search result page are confusing .. > there's no author search available from here .. has one wondering where the > heck they are .. sure, those of us in the know understand what's going on > ... but for the average user, wow, they've just entered an entirely > different realm. ;) > > Ok, some suggestions, open for discussion of course ... things to consider > the user's experience and the technical feasibility/limitations .. > > (1) On searching for tips by user, eliminate the search box from the top .. > but put a link on the side bar "search tips". > > (2) Keep the search box, but add the Author criterion, so that it makes > sense .. right now, it says Results for keyword : .. note, empty keyword. > > Definitely need some more suggestions here .. this leap from weo(teo) to leo > is confusing .. necessary, I understand .. but still confusing. Perhaps the > problem is that we are forcing this results page into the tip structure, and > there's no continuity back to weo(teo). With some creative thinking and > coding, we can make the transition less noticeable. I'm not sure, its very > obvious (style wise) that we've moved locations .. but its not helping the > user's experience. > > Suggestions folks .. please :) > > Ok, back to the search results page for the tips ... a couple of points .... > if you look at my results, I have 11 tips (link above)... at the bottom of > the first page it says: > > Results 1 to 10 of 11 > 1 2 > of 2 total pages > ?? Previous 10 Articles Next 1 Article ?? > > What's with the "previous 10 articles" ? and the Next 1 article .. > > Both of the above should refer to "tips" not articles .. and the previous 10 > isn't applicable as we're on page 1. ?? > > And clicking on that lonely Next 1 .. on the second page the "Next 10 > articles" is displayed yet not linked... can we get rid of that? > > The other thing I found confusing .. and this probably can't be dealt with > .. is that if I click on a tip to view it, the Prev Tip/Next Tip options > lead to the next tips within the entire tip collection .. not the next one > within the search criteria... i.e. the next one of my tips (since that's > where we started). Again, I don't think this can be fixed without a lot of > work. > > Ideas, suggestions .... ? > > Trying to improve the user's experience .. and tying everything in together. > I'm so amazed at the progress that's been made the past several months... so > many projects/tasks all coming together at once is just f***ing awesome. :) From bruce at heerssen.com Sat Dec 1 11:49:26 2001 From: bruce at heerssen.com (Bruce Heerssen) Date: Sat Dec 1 11:49:26 2001 Subject: [thesite] Posting Problems to thelist ? References: <00c501c17a80$7e120fc0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C0908B4.9010409@heerssen.com> Michele Foster wrote: > I can't get posts to go through to thelist, nor the archive. Anyone else > noticing a problem? No posts since .. 9:14 p.m. last night (EST) .. I haven't received anything from thelist since that time. > a bit > unusual even for a weekend. > Indeed. Why do these problems only seem to happen on the weekend? ;) -Bruce From mwarden at mattwarden.com Sat Dec 1 13:07:26 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Sat Dec 1 13:07:26 2001 Subject: [thesite] thelist problems Message-ID: um, mailman is reporting that thelist doesn't exist... ? I don't think that's a good sign... -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Dec 1 13:25:16 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Dec 1 13:25:16 2001 Subject: [thesite] thelist problems References: Message-ID: <006501c17a9e$51bf5680$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> You trying to reach Dan on the cell? Dean around ? M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warden, Matt" | | um, mailman is reporting that thelist doesn't exist... | | ? | | I don't think that's a good sign... | From dmah at shaw.ca Sat Dec 1 15:57:32 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sat Dec 1 15:57:32 2001 Subject: [thesite] thelist problems Message-ID: <200112012158.OAA03397@alice.monkeyland.ca> Looks like thelist config.db was corrupted. I overwrote it with the config.db.last which seemed to fix it. Dean From dmah at shaw.ca Sat Dec 1 16:03:02 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sat Dec 1 16:03:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] mailman error log Message-ID: <200112012203.PAA03427@alice.monkeyland.ca> Separate message as the issues may be unrelated to the current list problems. The mailman error log has been filling up since Oct 19 with: Dec 01 15:58:49 2001 admin: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin: [----- Mailman Version: 1.1.6 -----] admin: [----- Traceback ------] admin: Traceback (innermost last): admin: File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin: main() admin: File "../Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 49, in main admin: FormatAdminOverview(error="List %s not found." admin: File "../Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 171, in FormatAdminOverview admin: l = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 46, in __init__ admin: self.Load() admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 801, in Load admin: raise Errors.MMBadListError, ('Failed to unmarshal config info: ' admin: TypeError: __add__ nor __radd__ defined for these operands I don't know enough about mailman or python to say what's happening here. Ideas? Dean From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Dec 1 16:21:27 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Dec 1 16:21:27 2001 Subject: [thesite] t.e.o. update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C0911A2.10546.31EF8E94@localhost> > From: "Jeff Howden" [...] > adrian, if you get a chance, can you update your style guide article? sure... i guess i left table tags out simply because i had a section on them above... didn't do the same with the others, though, so might as well add it... > current list of accepted tags in comments: [...] also, please note that the style guide (which is linked from the comment box) makes no distinction between acceptable tags in articles vs. comments... > updated list of accepted tags in comments: > > a,b,strong,i,em,p,blockquote,ul,ol,li,dl,dd,dt,pre,code,cite,br,img,hr > ,small ,big,q,span,sup,sub,table,thead,tbody,tfoot,tr,th,td done. From djc at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 3 09:27:10 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Dec 3 09:27:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey Message-ID: <3C0B99AA.8040206@members.evolt.org> Hi folks - Evolt.org needs your help! Although evolt.org has always been a place for web developers *by* web developers, we'd like to solicit some feedback from the general evolt membership to see how we're doing, new features you may like to see, or suggestions you may have to continue evolt.org's place as the premier web development community on the Internet. With that, I'm happy to announce the first ever evolt.org survey! Have your say - evolt.org survey: http://www.evolt.org/article/announce/27/18041/index.html What we're looking for is some honest feedback from you the people that make evolt.org what it is. Although we'd like to think that everything is perfect with our community, thats obviously not the case.. And who better to let us know how to make it better than the people who use it? The survey is only about 40 questions long and shouldn't take more than 5 minutes of your time. However, that 5 minutes will go a long ways towards making evolt.org a better place, so I'd highly encourage *each* of you to make your opinions known and take the survey!! Thanks to everyone on theforum list( http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/theforum ) for their hard work, and a big thanks to evolt.org member Ryan Finley for his *very* generous support of evolt.org through the use his survey website, http://www.surveymonkey.com :) Thanks again for your feedback and continued support of evolt.org, and feel free to forward this on to any relevant parties :) .djc. - evolt.org grand poo-bah - From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Dec 3 09:29:29 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Dec 3 09:29:29 2001 Subject: [thesite] thelist problems References: <200112012158.OAA03397@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <3C0B9A36.1050100@starkmedia.com> thanks dean.. that was the right thing to do. the config.db.last is a realtime backup of config.db :) i'll look into the cause when i get a couple minutes.. .djc. Dean Mah wrote: > Looks like thelist config.db was corrupted. I overwrote it with the > config.db.last which seemed to fix it. > > Dean > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Dec 3 09:30:57 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Dec 3 09:30:57 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category References: <01f701c1794e$df4474a0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C0B9A8E.6010706@starkmedia.com> fyi - this category is live.. i gave it the catid of 27 (sorry jeffy) instead of '2' because there is a userid '2' and i felt dirty if we had two things with the same number in the sequence. and 27 was open. and it fits in with the rest of the category ID's .djc. Michele Foster wrote: > As long as I can have the new "Community News" category for weo on > Monday.... ;) > > Please that is. I won't object to it appearing under general News category > if that's a problem. > > Leaves the discussion and let's others think of the best way to deal with > the overall problem. From webguru at vsnl.net Mon Dec 3 14:05:55 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Dec 3 14:05:55 2001 Subject: [thesite] bugs in login page Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204013038.02c6dd18@203.197.12.4> Hi. Just wanted to report a couple of bugs in the login on w.e.o URL: http://evolt.org/login/index.html?action=error a) TABINDEX is set incorrectly. The submit button has a TABINDEX of 24 while the "username" INPUT box has 31 and the "email" INPUT box has 32. When I press tab from the username field, it goes to email instead of "Submit". When I press tab from the email field, it goes to the evolt logo. b) If a user apparently enters an invalid username/email, he's brought back to the *same* page again with no apparent explanation of what happened or what he did wrong. This is a usability flaw. Could we possibly put a message on top saying, "We're sorry, but we couldn't find your email or username in our database" ? Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 3 15:00:12 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Dec 3 15:00:12 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category In-Reply-To: <3C0B9A8E.6010706@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: dan, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Daniel J. Cody > > this category is live.. i gave it the catid of 27 (sorry > jeffy) instead of '2' because there is a userid '2' and > i felt dirty if we had two things with the same number > in the sequence. and 27 was open. > > and it fits in with the rest of the category ID's ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i'm really pissed off about the change you made. it doesn't f*cking matter if there are other tables that use the number 2 for their pk. furthermore, it's stupid that we're even using the same sequence number for all tables. i made requests in the past to try to keep the categoryid as low as possible -- requests that went unanswered. so now, i add it myself this time in the hopes that it'd finally be done right and then you go and change it. what's the point of even bothering? fwiw, i made it 2 for several reasons, reasons you may or may not be aware of. besides, don't you think it was nice to have the categoryid for news and community news right next to each other? .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Dec 3 15:41:33 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Dec 3 15:41:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category References: Message-ID: <3C0BF16A.5050505@starkmedia.com> seriously. not a month after "i don't want to upset anybody by reporting back that i fixed some code i thought was causing performance issues, could be written smoother, was just straight up sloppy, or whatever. however, my urge to make the site perform to its maximum outweighs this. it's not like i'm trying to hide anything. if anybody asks, i'm more than happy to talk about changes. i'm just not going to make it a point to go into detail about every little nuance that was altered." you get bitchy cus i changed something as simple as the number of the categoryid? helllooooo... pot? kettle? and what do you mean 'right next to eachother'? they're arranged in alphabetical order anyways. we've never used a PK from one table to the next since the sequence went in place. and your 2 reasons i guess i may not know of because you never said what they were. .djc. .jeff wrote: > i'm really pissed off about the change you made. it doesn't f*cking matter > if there are other tables that use the number 2 for their pk. furthermore, > it's stupid that we're even using the same sequence number for all tables. > i made requests in the past to try to keep the categoryid as low as > possible -- requests that went unanswered. so now, i add it myself this > time in the hopes that it'd finally be done right and then you go and change > it. what's the point of even bothering? > > fwiw, i made it 2 for several reasons, reasons you may or may not be aware > of. besides, don't you think it was nice to have the categoryid for news > and community news right next to each other? From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 3 18:07:11 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 3 18:07:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] [d.e.o.] Header Changes Message-ID: <03ea01c17c58$2005c5a0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hi Simon, I updated the dsp_header.html file in the leo/includes directory to include the new category Community News. But it's not displaying on d.e.o. Is there another header file somewhere else that I should have changed? Thanks, Michele From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 3 18:37:27 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Dec 3 18:37:27 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category In-Reply-To: <3C0BF16A.5050505@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: dan, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Daniel J. Cody > > you get bitchy cus i changed something as simple as the > number of the categoryid? helllooooo... pot? kettle? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< no, this is not me being hypocritical. there's no sound reason for changing that id other than you "felt dirty" because it matched a pk id used in another table. that's complete crap. the reasons i cited in the passage you quoted are relevant to bug fixes and performance issues and not at all with how "clean" or "dirty" they make me feel. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > and what do you mean 'right next to eachother'? they're > arranged in alphabetical order anyways. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< read the sentence again: "besides, don't you think it was nice to have the categoryid for news and community news right next to each other" the keyword being "categoryid" not the name of the category. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > we've never used a PK from one table to the next since > the sequence went in place. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< and? i didn't agree with that implementation when it happened either. your reasoning has no logic as there are already lots of multiple uses of the same pk throughout the site from when we were using access and creating pk's on a per table basis. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 3 21:17:01 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 3 21:17:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 - Graphical Ratings Bar (Please Vote) Message-ID: <000801c17c72$7e875980$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hi everyone, I think I made an error with this message that was posted last week to theforum only and wasn't also posted to this list, thesite. (If you don't know what theforum list is, please view http://lists.evolt.org, which should clarify things .. feel free to join if you like ;) Anyway, the reason I think I made the mistake is that the following vote should also be open to those that participate on this list, as the changes effect the evolt.org CMS not just evolt's direction. Please vote at your earliest convenience (+1 / -1 voting to the two questions as presented below) .. if you've already voted on theforum, no need to vote again. I'll continue to tally the results and will post a summary to both lists. My apologies for not posting this here, and if I've caused any confusion. Thanks, Michele (Note for Joel, I'm cc'ing you on this message as I can't remember if you are on this list too, I think you are .. but wanted to make sure you received this message and that the voting for this feature continues, as I really do believe I was in error for not having posted the call for a vote to both places.) The original message to theforum is below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Foster" | Hey folks ... | | I need to gauge the acceptance/rejection of this new feature Jeff added to | the test site. | | One can see the addition here - Rating (New): | | http://test.evolt.org/article/yadda/17/16286/index.html | | A few suggestions have been made which still need to be incorporated into | the final design including: | | * Adding more space/padding between the graphical bar and the radio buttons | to select the rating. | * Modifying the wording for clarity. | * Something else wrt the table's border, but I don't remember what that was. | ;) | * Adding to the CSS files, a class for the colour of the bar. | | Anyway, what say everyone .. | | (1) Do we add the graphical representation of the ratings? | | | (2) And, part two of this .. do we use the "new" rating scale of poor, | average, good, very good, excellent? (A "-1" to this indicates we keep the | original rating scale of bad, poor, okay, good, great!!). | | | Thanks for the feedback ..... | | Mich From webguru at vsnl.net Tue Dec 4 02:43:08 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue Dec 4 02:43:08 2001 Subject: [thesite] Date snafus Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204140554.02cc8220@203.197.12.4> I'd like to direct your attention to: http://test.evolt.org/article/eg/9741/9856/index.html (or any article on t.e.o actually) Notice the "author info" box? The dates there are in American date format. People like I, who use the dd/mm/yy format, will find this very confusing. Is 03/04/2001 "4 March 2001" or "3 April 2001"? I vote we change this to a neutral format like 23 March 2001. Nobody's confused any more. CF has a date format function, right? ;) +1/-1 ? Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon madhu at members.evolt.org Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Dec 4 03:07:28 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Tue Dec 4 03:07:28 2001 Subject: [thesite] Date snafus In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011204140554.02cc8220@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: madhu, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Madhu Menon > > http://test.evolt.org/article/eg/9741/9856/index.html > > (or any article on t.e.o actually) > > Notice the "author info" box? The dates there are in > American date format. People like I, who use the > dd/mm/yy format, will find this very confusing. > Is 03/04/2001 "4 March 2001" or "3 April 2001"? > > I vote we change this to a neutral format like 23 March > 2001. Nobody's confused any more. CF has a date format > function, right? ;) > > +1/-1 ? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< -1 i'm already a step ahead of you. i have database architecture in place to allow the user to control the format themselves. all the dates (i know of) displayed on the site reference the user's preference rather than a hard-coded string. i just haven't yet built the interface into thesite to allow the user to set their own date format mask. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Dec 4 03:34:22 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Tue Dec 4 03:34:22 2001 Subject: [thesite] [d.e.o.] Header Changes In-Reply-To: <03ea01c17c58$2005c5a0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: > I updated the dsp_header.html file in the leo/includes directory to include > the new category Community News. But it's not displaying on d.e.o. Is > there another header file somewhere else that I should have changed? Currently d.e.o. seems to be pointing to it's own set of dsp_header.html and dsp_footer.html files which are stored in /includes/ in the "directory" directory. Since I only ftp into d.e.o. to make updates I'm not clear what the correct path is to reference your files. (could be something like ../../leo/includes/dsp_header.html ??) Let me know and I'll make the switch. Simon From michele at wordpro.on.ca Tue Dec 4 08:30:33 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Tue Dec 4 08:30:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] [d.e.o.] Header Changes References: Message-ID: <003d01c17cd0$9b1e98c0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Simon, That's strange .. I don't see those files in the includes of directory .. maybe they are hidden? Dan ?? M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Coggins" | | > I updated the dsp_header.html file in the leo/includes directory to include | > the new category Community News. But it's not displaying on d.e.o. Is | > there another header file somewhere else that I should have changed? | | Currently d.e.o. seems to be pointing to it's own set of dsp_header.html | and dsp_footer.html files which are stored in /includes/ in the | "directory" directory. Since I only ftp into d.e.o. to make updates I'm | not clear what the correct path is to reference your files. (could be | something like ../../leo/includes/dsp_header.html ??) | | Let me know and I'll make the switch. | | Simon From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Dec 4 08:48:25 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Tue Dec 4 08:48:25 2001 Subject: [thesite] [d.e.o.] Header Changes In-Reply-To: <003d01c17cd0$9b1e98c0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: > That's strange .. I don't see those files in the includes of directory .. > maybe they are hidden? Like I said I'm not completely clear on how things have been set up. Could it be something to do with the fact that I'm logging into a m.e.o. account rather than l.e.o. or w.e.o.? Here's how I login, in case it helps: -- > ftp members.evolt.org Connected to members.evolt.org. 220 ProFTPD 1.2.2rc3 Server (bent on world domination since 1998) [leo] Name (members.evolt.org:coggins): directory 331 Password required for directory. Password: 230 User directory logged in. Remote system type is UNIX. Using binary mode to transfer files. ftp> pwd 257 "/" is current directory. ftp> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. drwxr-xr-x 2 directory directory 4096 Sep 7 13:43 includes drwxr-xr-x 4 directory directory 4096 Oct 22 18:35 public_html 226 Transfer complete. ftp> cd includes 250 CWD command successful. ftp> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. -rw-r--r-- 1 directory directory 4939 May 16 2001 SQLaccess.php -rw-r--r-- 1 directory directory 1729 Jun 9 19:57 about.inc -rw-r--r-- 1 directory directory 515 Jun 6 2001 dsp_footer.html -rw-r--r-- 1 directory directory 3545 Oct 13 23:48 dsp_header.html ...etc... Simon From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 4 09:42:46 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:42:46 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category References: Message-ID: <3C0CEED4.9040702@starkmedia.com> .jeff wrote: > no, this is not me being hypocritical. there's no sound reason for changing > that id other than you "felt dirty" because it matched a pk id used in > another table. that's complete crap. the reasons i cited in the passage > you quoted are relevant to bug fixes and performance issues and not at all > with how "clean" or "dirty" they make me feel. the sound reason is since we've instituted one sequence - which you may or may not like - we've never used the same PK for anything. >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>and what do you mean 'right next to eachother'? they're >>arranged in alphabetical order anyways. >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> > > read the sentence again: > > "besides, don't you think it was nice to have the > categoryid for news and community news right next > to each other" > > the keyword being "categoryid" not the name of the category. ok, my fault. but does it *really* matter if the categoryid of two categories is sequential? and right now, community news is only 2 more than 'commentary & society' and 4063 away from 'IA/usability'! but that really doesn't matter.. >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>we've never used a PK from one table to the next since >>the sequence went in place. >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> > > and? i didn't agree with that implementation when it happened either. noted > your reasoning has no logic as there are already lots of multiple uses of > the same pk throughout the site from when we were using access and creating > pk's on a per table basis. i'm providing reasoning other than news & community news are right next to eachother. we've never used the same PK for anything since using one sequence. .djc. From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 4 09:44:17 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:44:17 2001 Subject: [thesite] [d.e.o.] Header Changes References: Message-ID: <3C0CEF2F.8060305@starkmedia.com> my fault.. i forgot dir.evolt.org has its own seperate username.. every other evolt site(besides w.e.o) sits in /home/evolt dir sits in /home/directory i don't remember why i did it that way, but i'll fix it .djc. Simon Coggins wrote: >>That's strange .. I don't see those files in the includes of directory .. >>maybe they are hidden? >> > > Like I said I'm not completely clear on how things have been set > up. Could it be something to do with the fact that I'm logging into > a m.e.o. account rather than l.e.o. or w.e.o.? From r937 at interlog.com Tue Dec 4 10:07:53 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Dec 4 10:07:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category Message-ID: <01c17cde$00c551c0$464d149a@rudy> > but does it *really* matter if the categoryid of two > categories is sequential? obviously not, unless there's some query which does a sort based on categoryid the tip harvester might not be operational here on thesite, but this one's kinda minor anyway -- if you always draw your PKs from a sequence, they will reflect creation order, so as long as you never assign PKs manually, then the increasing PKs tell you the order the rows were created in -- a poor man's timestamp, and in fact if a timestamp is not needed for date calculations or time durations, the PK sequence is sufficient the only other situation in which the actual PK numbers matter is when you have to know them, for example to excluded certain categories from the query which displays articles on the home page -- but since they are enumerated in a NOT IN list, it doesn't really matter that they aren't consecutive, and besides, we may have another method to deal with that problem too in general the actual PK number should never matter rudy From djc at members.evolt.org Tue Dec 4 16:21:41 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 4 16:21:41 2001 Subject: [thesite] November stats for evolt.org Message-ID: <3C0D4C53.7060606@members.evolt.org> Ciao! November stats for evolt.org are in: Hits: 1.5Mil Page Views: 569,000(another record!) IP's Server: 92,000 Page Views/day: 18,000 Data transfer: 74Gb(record by a longshot) Data transfer/day: 2.3Gb of interest: top referers for the month: google(125,000), altavista(6700), slashdot(12,000, linking to my 'bad robots' article), sv.com(6500, they hada nice blurb about evolt and the browser archive), and dynamicdrive.com(4000, linking to browser archive).. the most popular search terms for the month were, javascript, netscape, asp, php, and browser - in that order.. it was interesting to see 133 people sent to evolt while searching for 'igloos' :) MSIE based browsers finished first with 1,128,066 requests and NS based browsers came in with around 211,000 requests - a 5 to 1 ratio and slightly higher than average on the Web.. Signs of a comeback? this is also the first month there were more requests made from Unix based machines than Macintosh ones, with at least one person sticking with their Atari based system to browse evolt :) kroet, deadL0ck, mpember, altyazi, and djc(w00!) were the top 5 members.evolt.org websites this month while Netscape based browsers were downloaded more often than their IE rivals... http://browsers.evolt.org/stats/stats.nov2001.html have fun, and as always, feel free to shout if there are questions or comments :) .djc. - list manager supreme with extra cheese - From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Wed Dec 5 07:56:18 2001 From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:56:18 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey In-Reply-To: <3C0B99AA.8040206@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055341.0294c490@mail.midtown.net> At 07:26 AM 12/03/2001, you wrote: >Hi folks - > >Have your say - evolt.org survey: >http://www.evolt.org/article/announce/27/18041/index.html > >.djc. >- evolt.org grand poo-bah - I just wanted to mention that I just took the survey. Lots of great questions, and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few minutes to take the survey. It was fun to do. You can be anonymous or not, and the interface was easy to use and visually interesting, too. So I also encourage everyone to take a few minutes to fill it out. After all, the grand poo-bah hath spoken. Warmly, Shirley -- Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A. SKDesigns mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com Website Design, Development http://www.skdesigns.com/ Pianist, Composer http://www.shirleykaiser.com/ Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/ Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From webguru at vsnl.net Wed Dec 5 08:16:49 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Dec 5 08:16:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055341.0294c490@mail.midtown.net> References: <3C0B99AA.8040206@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011005194545.0884e838@203.197.12.4> At 07:26 PM 12/5/2001, Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns typed these words: >and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few minutes to take the >survey. It was fun to do. Why, thank you, Shirley. That really makes the day of all the people who used spit and polish to make the survey shine ;) I didn't see a CC in your email to thelist. Perhaps you'd consider doing that. Only a few of us nuts hang out here. :) Cheers, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From gnarly at gmx.co.uk Wed Dec 5 10:20:39 2001 From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson) Date: Wed Dec 5 10:20:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] M.E.O. Minor Error Message-ID: <005d01c17da9$7b6053a0$0100a8c0@olly> Hi, On http://members.evolt.org/faq.cfm in the answer to the penultimate question, "you're" should be "your". Olly. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 24/11/2001 From michele at wordpro.on.ca Wed Dec 5 10:29:47 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Wed Dec 5 10:29:47 2001 Subject: [thesite] M.E.O. Minor Error References: <005d01c17da9$7b6053a0$0100a8c0@olly> Message-ID: <005601c17daa$7659e640$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Got it .. thanks. Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olly Hodgson" | Hi, | | | On http://members.evolt.org/faq.cfm in the answer to the penultimate | question, "you're" should be "your". | | From richard.bennett at skynet.be Wed Dec 5 10:53:45 2001 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Wed Dec 5 10:53:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055341.0294c490@mail.midtown.net> Message-ID: <046b01c17dad$36d04e80$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" > I just wanted to mention that I just took the survey. Lots of great > questions, and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few minutes to > take the survey. It was fun to do. You can be anonymous or not, and the > interface was easy to use and visually interesting, too. > > So I also encourage everyone to take a few minutes to fill it out. Just to balance the feedback, I started taking the test too, I found the three answers to the first question (something like "what is evolt") to be rather off-putting, a little immature maybe, I managed to do the first three pages, but found the interface somewhat unpredictable (sometimes multi-select, sometimes not, check-box or radio-button?) . Some questions were good, some not, and the boxes to type answers were often too small, so you couldn't see what you had typed. and mainly I found it far to long, better would be to have a different survey every week, around one topic, and just 2 or 3 pages long. After being interrupted by phone-calls I never did finish it. Richard. From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Wed Dec 5 11:14:10 2001 From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns) Date: Wed Dec 5 11:14:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey In-Reply-To: <046b01c17dad$36d04e80$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055341.0294c490@mail.midtown.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205090819.01dde0a0@mail.midtown.net> At 08:52 AM 12/05/2001, Richard wrote: >Hi >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" > > > I just wanted to mention that I just took the survey. Lots of great > > questions, and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few minutes >to > > take the survey. It was fun to do. You can be anonymous or not, and the > > interface was easy to use and visually interesting, too. > > > > So I also encourage everyone to take a few minutes to fill it out. > >Just to balance the feedback, I started taking the test too, I found the >three answers to the first question (something like "what is evolt") to be >rather off-putting, a little immature maybe, I managed to do the first three >pages, but found the interface somewhat unpredictable (sometimes >multi-select, sometimes not, check-box or radio-button?) . Yes, now that you mention this, the changes did cross my mind, but I didn't think about it too much except that I now remember I did double-check a few times to see if it was multi-select or not, etc. >Some questions were good, some not, and the boxes to type answers were often >too small, so you couldn't see what you had typed. >and mainly I found it far to long, better would be to have a different >survey every week, around one topic, and just 2 or 3 pages long. >After being interrupted by phone-calls I never did finish it. Yeah, it took me 2 or 3 times before I actually got from start to finish due to interruptions also. Good points, Richard. I wonder if it could be streamlined a bit. I don't know what was behind the reasoning for all the questions, so I can't begin to say what to cut and what's absolutely necessary. Warmly, Shirley -- Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A. SKDesigns mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com Website Design, Development http://www.skdesigns.com/ Pianist, Composer http://www.shirleykaiser.com/ Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/ Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Dec 5 11:18:49 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 5 11:18:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] Evolt survey References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011205055341.0294c490@mail.midtown.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20011205090819.01dde0a0@mail.midtown.net> Message-ID: <3C0E56D8.2090208@members.evolt.org> Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns wrote: > At 08:52 AM 12/05/2001, Richard wrote: > >> Hi >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns" >> >> > I just wanted to mention that I just took the survey. Lots of great >> > questions, and I hope you all get lots of people to take the few >> minutes >> to >> > take the survey. It was fun to do. You can be anonymous or not, and the >> > interface was easy to use and visually interesting, too. >> > >> > So I also encourage everyone to take a few minutes to fill it out. >> >> Just to balance the feedback, I started taking the test too, I found the >> three answers to the first question (something like "what is evolt") >> to be >> rather off-putting, a little immature maybe, I managed to do the first just trying to have a bit of fun there.. >> pages, but found the interface somewhat unpredictable (sometimes >> multi-select, sometimes not, check-box or radio-button?) . > Yes, now that you mention this, the changes did cross my mind, but I > didn't think about it too much except that I now remember I did > double-check a few times to see if it was multi-select or not, etc. this was because a lot of the questions could have multiple answers, and a lot could not.. IOW, there was a variety of questions, not simply 'yes/no' ones, which we thought would be boring.. >> Some questions were good, some not, and the boxes to type answers were >> often >> too small, so you couldn't see what you had typed. >> and mainly I found it far to long, better would be to have a different >> survey every week, around one topic, and just 2 or 3 pages long. >> After being interrupted by phone-calls I never did finish it. > > > Yeah, it took me 2 or 3 times before I actually got from start to finish > due to interruptions also. Good points, Richard. I wonder if it could be > streamlined a bit. I don't know what was behind the reasoning for all > the questions, so I can't begin to say what to cut and what's absolutely > necessary. the survey was actually debated at great length on theforum list, which is open to all.. join up if you'd like to get in on the next of the surveys :) http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/theforum .djc. From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Dec 5 14:02:01 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:02:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet Message-ID: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> We've just been having a quick conversation on theforum about the deo bookmarklet (http://members.evolt.org/simonc/bookmarklet.html). Madhu suggested that it would be a good idea if users didn't have to edit it themselves, but instead they entered their details and the system generated a custom bookmarklet for them. I've knocked together a quick example here: http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.php and you can see the code behind it at: http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.phps It's very simple (just an if/else switch) and doesn't do any sanity checking on user entered data, but its a start. Thoughts, suggestions? G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Dec 5 14:04:50 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:04:50 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet References: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> Message-ID: <3C0E7DC1.4040805@members.evolt.org> the upper right blackbar image is 404'ing, but other than that.. cool. would make a good page on d.e.o itself, or in the sidebar. and linked to from evolt.org/evolt_sourcecode page :) .djc. Garrett Coakley wrote: > > We've just been having a quick conversation on theforum about the deo > bookmarklet (http://members.evolt.org/simonc/bookmarklet.html). > > Madhu suggested that it would be a good idea if users didn't have to > edit it themselves, but instead they entered their details and the > system generated a custom bookmarklet for them. > > I've knocked together a quick example here: > http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.php > > and you can see the code behind it at: > http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.phps > > It's very simple (just an if/else switch) and doesn't do any sanity > checking on user entered data, but its a start. > > Thoughts, suggestions? From webguru at vsnl.net Wed Dec 5 14:08:19 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:08:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> At 01:34 AM 12/6/2001, Garrett Coakley typed these words: >It's very simple (just an if/else switch) and doesn't do any sanity >checking on user entered data, but its a start. Pretty cool, Garrett, and fast too. Could you please resend your last email to theforum too? (I'm CC'ing this there) >Thoughts, suggestions? If we put in some elementary client-side validation such as "check for @ and dot in email" and "No blank fields", we should have a good thing ready to implement. Then we can put it up on d.e.o Nice job! Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon madhu at members.evolt.org Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Dec 5 14:08:58 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:08:58 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <3C0E7DC1.4040805@members.evolt.org> References: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> <3C0E7DC1.4040805@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <1007583118.3279.57.camel@cincinnati.home> On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 20:04, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > the upper right blackbar image is 404'ing, but other than that.. cool. Ummmm... what upper right blackbar immage? G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From lists at mantruc.com Wed Dec 5 14:16:59 2001 From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco (mantruc)) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:16:59 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <3C0E80AE.4DF7C332@mantruc.com> Madhu Menon wrote: > Nice job! sweet! (standing ovation) -- Javier Velasco Information Architect Chile http://mantruc.com From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Dec 5 14:18:33 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:18:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <1007583705.2910.61.camel@cincinnati.home> On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 20:09, Madhu Menon wrote: > Pretty cool, Garrett, and fast too. Just call me "Quick Draw" *:) > If we put in some elementary client-side validation such as "check for @ > and dot in email" and "No blank fields", we should have a good thing ready > to implement. Then we can put it up on d.e.o Yeah will do. I'll try and get to it tonight, but the pub is calling at the minute. If it's not done tonight, then I'll pick it up tomorrow morning (GMT). G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From webguru at vsnl.net Wed Dec 5 14:20:27 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:20:27 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <1007583705.2910.61.camel@cincinnati.home> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206015059.088a91f8@203.197.12.4> At 01:51 AM 12/6/2001, Garrett Coakley typed these words: >I'll try and get to it tonight, but the pub is calling at >the minute. Man... do you live in the pub? You always seem to be either going there or are just back from the pub ;) Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From evolt at spinhead.com Wed Dec 5 14:34:53 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:34:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011206015059.088a91f8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <01e301c17dcc$52756430$080a000a@HEISENBERG> Ah; one of my goals - buy a pub in Ireland, and live downstairs. Sure, the pub is upstairs, so when I finally decide to go to bed at night, instead of the long struggle UP the stairs, it's a simple tuck and roll (mind your skull on the banister!) spinhead ----- Original Message ----- From: "Madhu Menon" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] deo bookmarklet > At 01:51 AM 12/6/2001, Garrett Coakley typed these words: > >I'll try and get to it tonight, but the pub is calling at > >the minute. > > Man... do you live in the pub? You always seem to be either going there or > are just back from the pub ;) > > Madhu > > <<< * >>> > Madhu Menon > User Experience Consultant > e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Dec 5 15:22:16 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed Dec 5 15:22:16 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206015059.088a91f8@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011206013653.088ba8a8@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011206015059.088a91f8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <1007587550.3279.63.camel@cincinnati.home> On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 20:21, Madhu Menon wrote: > Man... do you live in the pub? You always seem to be either going there or > are just back from the pub ;) Pubs are very important *:) Anyway, just got back from the pub and had a burst of creativity *:) http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.php It now checks to see if the email is valid (syntax wise) and if they've entered a name. Not the prettiest code in the world, but it's a quick hack. I would have preferred to use my html abstraction library, but that seemed a little like overkill for this one thing. As always, the code for it can be seen here: http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.phps G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com Wed Dec 5 15:29:17 2001 From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com) Date: Wed Dec 5 15:29:17 2001 Subject: [thesite] UEUE goes to Hades Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392004126129@arnold.bedrock.com> Hi Sitearians, I was looking into the mechanisms of authentication, and came across this dialogue: http://web.mit.edu/kerberos/www/dialogue.html I have some ideas about this which fill the interstitials of my thinking (one thing to call it), which has been too focused on a deadline tomorrow to say much more. I just wanted to raise this link for general awareness and state that I believe that we can make an authenticator/ticketing system which will work if we can uniquely define the visitor. I'll come back next week to dialogue more. From webguru at vsnl.net Wed Dec 5 15:33:51 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Wed Dec 5 15:33:51 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206030307.0887de20@203.197.12.4> I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to complain about a comment on w.e.o? Have we ever taken action based on such complaints? Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon madhu at members.evolt.org Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com Wed Dec 5 15:36:01 2001 From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com) Date: Wed Dec 5 15:36:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA39200412612A@arnold.bedrock.com> +| I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to +| complain about a comment on w.e.o? Didn't know what it was for. From djc at starkmedia.com Wed Dec 5 15:56:29 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 5 15:56:29 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206030307.0887de20@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <3C0E97ED.8000608@starkmedia.com> 4 times.. 5 at the most IIRC Madhu Menon wrote: > I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to > complain about a comment on w.e.o? Have we ever taken action based on > such complaints? From isaac at members.evolt.org Wed Dec 5 17:06:28 2001 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:06:28 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206030307.0887de20@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: > I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to > complain about a comment on w.e.o? Have we ever taken action > based on such > complaints? It's sometimes used by people to identify duplicates or blank comments, but that's usually admins doing the Grrr'ing. There are probably not all that many comments that need Grrr'ing in the first place. We have been exceptionally lucky to avoid the trolls and goatsex fiends that haunt /. for one thing. But it's certainly not obvious enough as it is, so if you have any ideas for a replacement ("Complain about this comment" is probably too long), yell out. isaac -------------------------------------------------------------- triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067 (08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au From martin_ at mac.com Wed Dec 5 17:07:20 2001 From: martin_ at mac.com (martin_ at mac.com) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:07:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206030307.0887de20@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <0C22D981-E9D5-11D5-A14F-000502172AD3@mac.com> Well given that the most recent Grrs were about a substantive misrepresentation of an Admin and theforum discussion, and were an attempt to bully both Admin and theforum onto a personal agenda, yet no action was taken, despite the damage to collective trust which resulted, I'd say 'no'. Martin On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 09:35 pm, Madhu Menon wrote: > I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to > complain about a comment on w.e.o? _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From djc at starkmedia.com Wed Dec 5 17:12:20 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:12:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Grrr References: <0C22D981-E9D5-11D5-A14F-000502172AD3@mac.com> Message-ID: <3C0EA9B4.8030106@starkmedia.com> Let it go martin. .djc. martin_ at mac.com wrote: > Well given that the most recent Grrs were about a > substantive misrepresentation of an Admin and > theforum discussion, and were an attempt to bully > both Admin and theforum onto a personal agenda, > yet no action was taken, despite the damage to > collective trust which resulted, I'd say 'no'. > > Martin > > On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 09:35 pm, Madhu Menon wrote: > >> I'm curious: how often, if at all, do people use the "Grrr" link to >> complain about a comment on w.e.o? From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Dec 5 18:51:30 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Wed Dec 5 18:51:30 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> Message-ID: > Madhu suggested that it would be a good idea if users didn't have to > edit it themselves, but instead they entered their details and the > system generated a custom bookmarklet for them. > > I've knocked together a quick example here: > http://members.evolt.org/garrett/deo_bookmarklet.php Nice one! I was thinking of doing something like this a while ago but never got round to it. Stupid really 'cause it wouldn't have taken too long. I'll take your version and wrap the deo skin round it and link it from the main deo site tomorrow. Thanks, Simon From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu Dec 6 00:35:06 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Thu Dec 6 00:35:06 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category In-Reply-To: <01c17cde$00c551c0$464d149a@rudy> Message-ID: rudy, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: rudy > > in general the actual PK number should never matter ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< the exception, imo, is when the pk is visible in the url for purposes of retrieving data. in that instance the length of the pk is critical if you're trying to keep urls as short and memorable as possible. this is even more important when working with pk's that will be encrypted to prevent tampering and placed in the url as the encryption process will increase the length of the pk exponentially. a situation i ran into last year illustrates this quite well. here at work we use sybase adaptive server enterprise. if the server is shut down or rebooted without first shutting down the sybase services it burns an identity gap upon restart. by default this gap is ridiculous amount (can't recall the exact percentage offhand, but it's something like 1%). if your pk column is a numeric(18) which is what we were using at the time, you go from 2 or 3 digit pk's to 12 digits. in one of the applications the pk is encrypted (using a seed 2 characters long) and passed in the url to display a receipt. instead of 8-10 character encrypted pk's, we now have 24-26 character encrypted pk's in the url. in the case of this site, add in the shortest domain and "query string" (we use ssurl's) information possible and we're looking at 64-66 characters. we're getting close to bumping up to that magic 70 character limit for url's in emails being mostly guaranteed to not get wrapped. now, what happens when we burn a gap again (you know you can't trust that it'll only happen once)? we've burned approximately 4-6 gaps so far and are still within the 12 digit threshold (we're at 700000000000+). 3 more and we're now at 11 digit pk's that balloon to 36-38 characters when encrypted which pushes the encrypted urls up over the magic 70 character limit to 76-78 characters. this is now problematic. some of this can be rectified by changing the default gap that sybase will burn, but it's an issue nonetheless. a view of the world from my point of view. before any of your run off to respond to this and the fact that it's not applicable to changing the categoryid of "community news" from 1 digit to 2 digits, let me remind you that i'm already aware of that fact. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From webguru at vsnl.net Thu Dec 6 00:46:05 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Thu Dec 6 00:46:05 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: References: <1007582698.3279.53.camel@cincinnati.home> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206121532.087747a8@203.197.12.4> At 06:23 AM 12/6/2001, Simon Coggins typed these words: >Nice one! I was thinking of doing something like this a while ago but >never got round to it. Stupid really 'cause it wouldn't have taken too >long. I'll take your version and wrap the deo skin round it and link it >from the main deo site tomorrow. Ah, progress. Gotta love the smell of it :) Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 6 04:43:25 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Thu Dec 6 04:43:25 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206121532.087747a8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: > At 06:23 AM 12/6/2001, Simon Coggins typed these words: > >Nice one! I was thinking of doing something like this a while ago but > >never got round to it. Stupid really 'cause it wouldn't have taken too > >long. I'll take your version and wrap the deo skin round it and link it > >from the main deo site tomorrow. > > Ah, progress. Gotta love the smell of it :) Okay, it's all done I think. Check it out at: http://dir.evolt.org/info/bookmarklet I've removed the name and email validation from the form because I didn't want to force people to give away their information if they didn't want to. I have replaced it with some validation that checks they haven't included quotes in either field though (this would mess up the bookmarklet). Feedback and suggestions welcome. Simon From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Thu Dec 6 05:16:51 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Thu Dec 6 05:16:51 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1007637632.2969.6.camel@cincinnati.home> On Thu, 2001-12-06 at 10:45, Simon Coggins wrote: > Okay, it's all done I think. Check it out at: > > http://dir.evolt.org/info/bookmarklet Cool, One thing though. On Moz 0.9.6 / Linux if you add your details to the bookmarklet through the form, when you drag the link to the Personal Toolbar, the "Add To DEO" title isn't there anymore. But, it's there if you drag the unmodified link. Dunno whether anyone else sees that? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From webguru at vsnl.net Thu Dec 6 05:39:00 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Thu Dec 6 05:39:00 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206121532.087747a8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206165229.0299fab0@203.197.12.4> At 04:15 PM 12/6/2001, Simon Coggins typed these words: >Okay, it's all done I think. Check it out at: > >http://dir.evolt.org/info/bookmarklet Hi Simon. Looks pretty good. Comments: 1) http://dir.evolt.org/images/tab_cap_short.gif is a 404 2) The Red for the "required fields" hurts my eyes. It's too prominent. It clashes with the BG colour. Something milder perhaps? A dark orange maybe? 3) IMHO, the "categories" should come after "description". Let the user make sure the other information is accurate. Some sites have the same TITLE for all articles (e.g., www.theregister.co.uk) In that case, a person has to make the change manually. Also, it gives us a chance to make the combo box larger, which I think is required with so many categories. 4) Once the link has been submitted, the confirmation window should automatically close itself after 5 seconds. There's no need for it to hang around anyway. 5) The text at the top, "Please fill in the form below." should be replaced by the more useful "Add a link to the evolt.org web design and development directory". It's pretty obvious that it's a form, and hence needs to be filled in. ;) 6) For those unfamiliar with bookmarklets, we should create a small animated GIF showing how to add it to the links bar. To see an example of what I mean, visit http://www.webopedia.com/searchtool/ (though their version isn't animated). I'll try to knock one up if possible. 7) Once *again*, the "bookmarklet" link is hidden away on the d.e.o site. Sure, it's *there*, but not conspicuous at all. We need to highlight it, and use more exciting text to explain it. +1/-1 from members? Hope this helps. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 6 05:42:59 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Thu Dec 6 05:42:59 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <1007637632.2969.6.camel@cincinnati.home> Message-ID: > On Moz 0.9.6 / Linux if you add your details to the bookmarklet through > the form, when you drag the link to the Personal Toolbar, the "Add To > DEO" title isn't there anymore. > > But, it's there if you drag the unmodified link. > > Dunno whether anyone else sees that? I'm seeing the same thing on NN6.2/Linux. It's pretty weird. If I enter some details I get the bookmarklet but without a title. If I leave both fields blank I can't even get the bookmarklet to appear when I drag it to my toolbar. I'm guessing this is probably a bug of some kind. For some reason NN6 seems to have problems with dynamically driven pages. For instance I can't view source on the 'results' page for some unknown reason. If anyone can figure out what's up or a fix let me know and I'll fix it. Here's the code as it stands now: http://members.evolt.org/simonc/php/bookmarklet.phps Simon From r937 at interlog.com Thu Dec 6 06:06:01 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Thu Dec 6 06:06:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Community News Category Message-ID: <01c17e4d$a5d58520$864e149a@rudy> > the exception, imo, is when the pk is visible in the url for purposes of > retrieving data. ah, well, there's your problem then -- don't do that scary story about those large pks, though all the more reason never to use the pk for anything From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 6 06:10:04 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Thu Dec 6 06:10:04 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206165229.0299fab0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: > 1) http://dir.evolt.org/images/tab_cap_short.gif is a 404 Oops that's a new graphic I made but forgot to copy over. It's on my computer at home - I'll get to it tonight. > 2) The Red for the "required fields" hurts my eyes. It's too prominent. It > clashes with the BG colour. Something milder perhaps? A dark orange maybe? Good point. I never really liked the idea of using colours anyway (because I don't like relying on colour for functionalilty and in case user stylesheets ever get implemented on deo). I've put them back to black for now. If anyone can think of another way of highlighting the required fields without using colours let me know. > 3) IMHO, the "categories" should come after "description". Let the user > make sure the other information is accurate. Some sites have the same TITLE > for all articles (e.g., www.theregister.co.uk) In that case, a person has > to make the change manually. Also, it gives us a chance to make the combo > box larger, which I think is required with so many categories. Done and done. > 4) Once the link has been submitted, the confirmation window should > automatically close itself after 5 seconds. There's no need for it to hang > around anyway. Done. > 5) The text at the top, "Please fill in the form below." should be replaced > by the more useful "Add a link to the evolt.org web design and development > directory". It's pretty obvious that it's a form, and hence needs to be > filled in. ;) Done. > 6) For those unfamiliar with bookmarklets, we should create a small > animated GIF showing how to add it to the links bar. To see an example of > what I mean, visit http://www.webopedia.com/searchtool/ (though their > version isn't animated). I'll try to knock one up if possible. Excellent thanks. > 7) Once *again*, the "bookmarklet" link is hidden away on the d.e.o site. > Sure, it's *there*, but not conspicuous at all. We need to highlight it, > and use more exciting text to explain it. +1/-1 from members? Sounds good. Have you got any ideas on that? Perhaps a small box in the sidebar with a link and a brief description? Exciting text is not really my thing I'm afraid - if you come up with the copy I'll add it! Thanks for all the feedback, Simon From webguru at vsnl.net Thu Dec 6 06:19:56 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Thu Dec 6 06:19:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206165229.0299fab0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011206174927.02a6b1a0@203.197.12.4> At 05:41 PM 12/6/2001, Simon Coggins typed these words: >Done and done. Beauty! Good work, Simon. :D Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Thu Dec 6 10:08:03 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Thu Dec 6 10:08:03 2001 Subject: [thesite] Question about "New Comments" on Sidebar Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011206093133.02832d90@mail.imaginuity.com> (Still in seventh circle of e-mail hell...Cursed Interland SMTP server is down...again...let's try this again) On the New Comments section in the sidebar, there is a Title on each item except when there is "[no title]". Is that by design (to not have the tag if there is no title for the comment) or is that incorrect? There used to be an example of this behavior on the current site (or there was when I originally tried to post this -- see first line), but it has since rotated off. Just wondering. --Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From r937 at interlog.com Sat Dec 8 11:39:59 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Dec 8 11:39:59 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site Message-ID: <01c1800f$a1d77000$b851149a@rudy> michele, dan, jeff, anybody... could you please email me offlist with the ftp logon instructions i would like to ftp an image into http://evolt.org/evolt/images/ at least, that's what i think the right directory is -- if not, please add instructions i want to add my little icon to the evolt collection available through Where can I get evolt.org images? http://evolt.org/evolt_images/index.html i will update/reapprove the article myself, if that's okay rudy From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Dec 8 11:54:06 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Dec 8 11:54:06 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site References: <01c1800f$a1d77000$b851149a@rudy> Message-ID: <016101c18011$e1579fa0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Rudy, The image should be placed in teo as well .. I've sent you info offlist for that. I don't have access to the live server. Someone else will have to provide you with that info... or they can copy the image from test > live for you. btw, if you experience probs trying to ftp an image to test .. bug Dan/Jeff .. they've been playing with file permissions .. ;) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" | michele, dan, jeff, anybody... | | could you please email me offlist with the ftp logon instructions | | i would like to ftp an image into http://evolt.org/evolt/images/ | | at least, that's what i think the right directory is -- if not, please add | instructions | | i want to add my little icon to the evolt collection available through | | Where can I get evolt.org images? | http://evolt.org/evolt_images/index.html | | i will update/reapprove the article myself, if that's okay From r937 at interlog.com Sat Dec 8 12:52:26 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Dec 8 12:52:26 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site Message-ID: <01c18019$ba0f7f00$b851149a@rudy> > The image should be placed in teo as well thanks for the reminder, mich check it out -- http://test.evolt.org/evolt_images/index.html rudy From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Dec 8 13:07:56 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Dec 8 13:07:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site References: <01c18019$ba0f7f00$b851149a@rudy> Message-ID: <016e01c1801c$31b57620$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Wow, an itty-bitty one .. looks good. :) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" | | check it out -- http://test.evolt.org/evolt_images/index.html From djc at starkmedia.com Sat Dec 8 16:31:00 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Sat Dec 8 16:31:00 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site References: <01c18019$ba0f7f00$b851149a@rudy> <016e01c1801c$31b57620$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C129607.5030501@starkmedia.com> +1 looks nice :) i've uploaded it to w.e.o - the article will have to be updated there as well.. .djc. Michele Foster wrote: > Wow, an itty-bitty one .. looks good. :) > > Mich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rudy" > > > | > | check it out -- http://test.evolt.org/evolt_images/index.html From r937 at interlog.com Sat Dec 8 16:39:10 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Dec 8 16:39:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] ftp to the live site Message-ID: <01c18039$70ca93a0$b851149a@rudy> >+1 looks nice :) thanks web safe, palette reduced to six colours, a whopping 132-byte image >i've uploaded it to w.e.o - the article will have to be updated there as done rudy From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Sat Dec 8 18:10:18 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Sat Dec 8 18:10:18 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions Message-ID: Hey everyone, I just had an idea of a feature that could be added to article submissions that I thought I'd share. I haven't really thought it through properly but I figured I'd chuck it out here and see what people thought. Essentially the idea is to add an additional field in the article submission form where the author could type anything they wanted to appear in the document . This could include javascript, css (either inline or linked) and meta tags (in particular keywords, title, description and author). Obviously you don't want authors styling things too much but I can think of a few examples where this would be useful. In this article of mine for instance: I was forced to link to an example rather than including one in the page because I couldn't stick @import in the article header directly. Because articles are all manually approved any malicious stuff could be filtered out before going live, and authors could be given a guide to acceptable usage. I'm not sure, but I also think that this would be pretty easy to implement. Just add an extra field to the form and articles table and include the header field when the page is generated. Just an idea - feel free to point out the obvious flaws that I haven't thought of! Simon From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 00:28:02 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 00:28:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] Searching archives Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209115752.099387b8@203.197.12.4> Does thelist archive have a search? I use Google for searching it ATM. M From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 9 00:30:21 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Sun Dec 9 00:30:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] Searching archives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209115752.099387b8@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: madhu, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Madhu Menon > > Does thelist archive have a search? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< yup, it's in the middle of the page at http://lists.evolt.org/ ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > I use Google for searching it ATM. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< which, ironically, our search uses too. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 02:48:36 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 02:48:36 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209141932.09aa4038@203.197.12.4> I want to change my admin list preferences so I don't get my own mail. Can someone do this for me please? Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon madhu at members.evolt.org Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 9 03:10:37 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Sun Dec 9 03:10:37 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209141932.09aa4038@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: madhu, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Madhu Menon > > I want to change my admin list preferences so I don't > get my own mail. Can someone do this for me please? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< which lists? thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 08:15:35 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 08:15:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209141932.09aa4038@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209194611.09adbc78@203.197.12.4> At 02:42 PM 12/9/2001, .jeff typed these words: > > I want to change my admin list preferences so I don't > > get my own mail. Can someone do this for me please? > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > >which lists? Admin :) The others all have pages to change the delivery options. Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 9 11:37:38 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Sun Dec 9 11:37:38 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209194611.09adbc78@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: madhu, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Madhu Menon > > > which lists? > > Admin :) > > The others all have pages to change the delivery > options. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< admin does too, you just gotta figure out where it is. http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/admin later, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 12:29:15 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 12:29:15 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209194611.09adbc78@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209235958.09aeb720@203.197.12.4> At 11:09 PM 12/9/2001, .jeff typed these words: >admin does too, you just gotta figure out where it is. > >http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/admin Hehe. Yeah, I had got that part figured out. But when I put in my email address and click "edit options", I get a 404. This URL: http://lists.evolt.org/subscribe/admin doesn't exist. M From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 13:35:40 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 13:35:40 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> I want to give this IRC thing a spin. Could someone give me details on what I have to configure on my IRC client for the evolt channel? Is Pirch a good IRC client? And do many evolt people hang out on IRC at all? Thanks, Madman <<< * >>> Madhu "MadMan" Menon Defender of Justice, Destroyer of Evil, and Keeper of the Knowledge Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Sun Dec 9 13:52:02 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Sun Dec 9 13:52:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <20011209195539.31161@polytechnic.co.uk> On Monday, December 10, 2001, Madhu said: >I want to give this IRC thing a spin. Could someone give me details on what >I have to configure on my IRC client for the evolt channel? Is Pirch a good >IRC client? Can't speak for clients. I'm on Linux and Mac. >And do many evolt people hang out on IRC at all? We're twenty four hour party people *:) G. -- ---------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Sun Dec 9 13:56:30 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Sun Dec 9 13:56:30 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <20011209195539.31161@polytechnic.co.uk> References: <20011209195539.31161@polytechnic.co.uk> Message-ID: <20011209200228.11403@polytechnic.co.uk> On Sunday, December 9, 2001, Garrett said: >On Monday, December 10, 2001, Madhu said: > >>I want to give this IRC thing a spin. Could someone give me details on what >>I have to configure on my IRC client for the evolt channel? Is Pirch a good >>IRC client? > >Can't speak for clients. I'm on Linux and Mac. D'oh! Would help if I told you the settings as well! Server: irc.evolt.org (maps to openprojects.net) Channel: #evolt Also have a look at for background info and tips. Well worth looking at how Nickserv works and how to register your chosen nickname. G. -- ---------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk From webguru at vsnl.net Sun Dec 9 13:57:27 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Sun Dec 9 13:57:27 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <20011209195539.31161@polytechnic.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210012844.09b13e88@203.197.12.4> At 01:25 AM 12/10/2001, Garrett Coakley typed these words: >We're twenty four hour party people *:) So you wanna tell me how to configure this thing, G? :) M <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sun Dec 9 16:07:20 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sun Dec 9 16:07:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Changing list delivery options References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209141932.09aa4038@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <026c01c180fe$74d13240$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Madhu, I set this option directly for you .. let me know if you are still receiving your own posts. Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Madhu Menon" | I want to change my admin list preferences so I don't get my own mail. Can | someone do this for me please? | | Madhu From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sun Dec 9 16:30:35 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sun Dec 9 16:30:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] Question about "New Comments" on Sidebar References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011206093133.02832d90@mail.imaginuity.com> Message-ID: <028301c18101$b5b56940$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Ben, I don't think anyone answered this .... ?? Anyway .. yeah, I know what you mean .. we've debated in the past the use of within the sidebar. The vote went to keep it in there. As for it showing up even if the comment is empty .. well, yeah I guess that's a bug. It will, however, change since .jeff added the code necessary to make the Subject and Body of comments mandatory. Once we roll teo -> weo, there shouldn't be anymore empty comments or missing titles. HTH, Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Dyer" | On the New Comments section in the sidebar, there is a Title on each item except when there is "[no title]". Is | that by design (to not have the tag if there is no title for the | comment) or is that incorrect? | | There used to be an example of this behavior on the current site (or there | was when I originally tried to post this -- see first line), but it has | since rotated off. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sun Dec 9 16:38:01 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sun Dec 9 16:38:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet Message-ID: <02b101c18102$bfc59800$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Damn, went to the wrong list .. Simon are you on theforum or just on this list ? Thanks, Mich (sorry for the duplicate folks) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Foster" | Garrett, Simon, Madhu, | | One of you want to write a brief article for Community News pimping d.e.o. | and letting members know about the bookmarklet and how it works ? | | Thanks, | | Michele From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Sun Dec 9 17:18:06 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Sun Dec 9 17:18:06 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <028801c18101$f22d73e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> References: <028801c18101$f22d73e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <20011209232402.25745@polytechnic.co.uk> On Sunday, December 9, 2001, Michele said: >Garrett, Simon, Madhu, > >One of you want to write a brief article for Community News pimping d.e.o. >and letting members know about the bookmarklet and how it works ? Guys, I'll you guys fight over this one. I ain't so good with dem purty words. G. -- ---------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sun Dec 9 17:32:09 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sun Dec 9 17:32:09 2001 Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks Message-ID: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hey folks .. It's voting time again .. ;) Please respond +1 / -1 on the following two items. Note, this message cross-posted to thesite and theforum, one only needs to respond in either place. Here's a sample page taken from teo. http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/authorinfo.htm We're having file permission issues on teo at the moment, so one won't see the author's pic being displayed. Note, I cut a lot of content from this article and deleted 43 of the 45 comments .. wow, try beating that on weo. ;) Anyway, on to the vote .. (1) Author's block of info as displayed .. photo if one exists, plus number of articles written average rating and total number of ratings. This block of info is styled using the sidebar class. (2) Author's bio and other articles .. located at the end of the article, before the rating bar. Again, this info is styled using the sidebar class of the (at this time) existing stylesheet. This includes 5 of the author's other articles if they exist (there's some fancy math to this, but I can't remember what it is .. i.e. content categories will be displayed before FAQ ones .. or something like that). If the author has not written any other articles, then that part is left off altogether (i.e. it doesn't say "this author hasn't written anything else"). Same with the bio, if the author hasn't entered one, then nothing is displayed (much better than saying, "this author hasn't supplied a bio" ;). Once we've ascertained the level (or not) of support for these two items, work can continue building the backend required to accommodate them. It's been started, but isn't ready for use at this time. Holler if anyone has any questions. Michele From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 9 17:48:12 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Sun Dec 9 17:48:12 2001 Subject: [thesite] RE: +1/-1 Author Info Blocks In-Reply-To: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/authorinfo.htm > > (1) Author's block of info as displayed ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< +1 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > (2) Author's bio and other articles .. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< +1 thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sun Dec 9 18:13:11 2001 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sun Dec 9 18:13:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks References: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <001301c1810f$54155020$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> hi all, What I was wondering, is it possible for an author to retain control of the styling of his/her article? Personally I'm not so keen on green background, and would definitely prefer text-size to be browser adjustable, and find script in textareas to be hard to read, and annoying when scrolling the page, as the text-box starts scrolling instead of the page. If I had submitted an article I would prefer a more low-key "Authors block" - is it possible to hide this, and just sign your work? Let's say an author wants to submit something like this as an article: http://www.your-site.com/~rinfo/examples/php/doc_guide.html (this is just an example of the styling - disregard the content) Could this be displayed with it's style-sheet, without being edited by someone else? These questions came to mind when looking at mock-up page, where I noticed the examples in the article were styled the same as the rest of the page, so it was not really clear where the article ended, and the footer started. there's lot's of nice stuff in there too though :o) Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Foster" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:36 AM Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks > Hey folks .. > > It's voting time again .. ;) > > Please respond +1 / -1 on the following two items. Note, this message > cross-posted to thesite and theforum, one only needs to respond in either > place. > > Here's a sample page taken from teo. > > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/authorinfo.htm > > We're having file permission issues on teo at the moment, so one won't see > the author's pic being displayed. Note, I cut a lot of content from this > article and deleted 43 of the 45 comments .. wow, try beating that on weo. > ;) > > Anyway, on to the vote .. > > (1) Author's block of info as displayed .. photo if one exists, plus number > of articles written average rating and total number of ratings. This block > of info is styled using the sidebar class. > > (2) Author's bio and other articles .. located at the end of the article, > before the rating bar. Again, this info is styled using the sidebar class > of the (at this time) existing stylesheet. This includes 5 of the author's > other articles if they exist (there's some fancy math to this, but I can't > remember what it is .. i.e. content categories will be displayed before FAQ > ones .. or something like that). If the author has not written any other > articles, then that part is left off altogether (i.e. it doesn't say "this > author hasn't written anything else"). Same with the bio, if the author > hasn't entered one, then nothing is displayed (much better than saying, > "this author hasn't supplied a bio" ;). > > Once we've ascertained the level (or not) of support for these two items, > work can continue building the backend required to accommodate them. It's > been started, but isn't ready for use at this time. > > Holler if anyone has any questions. > > Michele > > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From r937 at interlog.com Sun Dec 9 18:30:34 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sun Dec 9 18:30:34 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Theforum] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks Message-ID: <01c18112$33753bc0$d051149a@rudy> >(1) Author's block of info as displayed .. as displayed? emphatically -1 >(2) Author's bio and other articles .. bio? -0.5 other articles? -1 > Maybe kind of like giving a reason for denying an article > and not needing to state a reason for approving one. excellent point, most excellent point here's my reason for my negative votes -- the site isn't about us, it's about the content nuff said rudy From bruce at heerssen.com Sun Dec 9 19:27:53 2001 From: bruce at heerssen.com (Bruce Heerssen) Date: Sun Dec 9 19:27:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC References: <20011209195539.31161@polytechnic.co.uk> <20011209200228.11403@polytechnic.co.uk> Message-ID: <3C140F99.8070401@heerssen.com> Garrett Coakley wrote: > On Sunday, December 9, 2001, Garrett said: > > >>On Monday, December 10, 2001, Madhu said: >> >> >>>I want to give this IRC thing a spin. Could someone give me details on what >>>I have to configure on my IRC client for the evolt channel? Is Pirch a good >>>IRC client? >>> Pirch is ok, so is Mirc... Word to the wise - make sure you have a decent personal firewall running before you connect to an IRC server. Opennetworks doesn't seem to be overflowing with script kiddies like the undernet is, but ya never know. -Bruce -- --- Bruce Heerssen Web Developer http://members.evolt.org/bheerssen/ "Freewheeling anarchy's great, but it doesn't scale very well." - Martin Burns From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 21:39:49 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Dec 9 21:39:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks In-Reply-To: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C13E851.6872.5C462C58@localhost> > (1) Author's block of info as displayed .. photo if one exists, plus > number of articles written average rating and total number of ratings. > This block of info is styled using the sidebar class. as displayed: tentative +1... - do not like US-centric date format (prefer dd mmm yy) - still concerned about CSS, but there's nothing anyone can do about that one... > (2) Author's bio and other articles .. located at the end of the > article, before the rating bar. Again, this info is styled using the > sidebar class of the (at this time) existing stylesheet. This as-is: -1 i *do* want a bio on my articles, but the split between top and bottom and the hard transition to the bio still makes it look like an afterthough... sorry, had to add reasons, but can't do redesigns for you... From evolt at spinhead.com Sun Dec 9 22:06:03 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Sun Dec 9 22:06:03 2001 Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks In-Reply-To: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <000301c18130$379ddb30$6501a8c0@brendan> 1. +1 2. +1 joel -----Original Message----- From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Michele Foster Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:36 PM To: thesite at lists.evolt.org; theforum at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thesite] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks Hey folks .. It's voting time again .. ;) Please respond +1 / -1 on the following two items. Note, this message cross-posted to thesite and theforum, one only needs to respond in either place. Here's a sample page taken from teo. http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/authorinfo.htm We're having file permission issues on teo at the moment, so one won't see the author's pic being displayed. Note, I cut a lot of content from this article and deleted 43 of the 45 comments .. wow, try beating that on weo. ;) Anyway, on to the vote .. (1) Author's block of info as displayed .. photo if one exists, plus number of articles written average rating and total number of ratings. This block of info is styled using the sidebar class. (2) Author's bio and other articles .. located at the end of the article, before the rating bar. Again, this info is styled using the sidebar class of the (at this time) existing stylesheet. This includes 5 of the author's other articles if they exist (there's some fancy math to this, but I can't remember what it is .. i.e. content categories will be displayed before FAQ ones .. or something like that). If the author has not written any other articles, then that part is left off altogether (i.e. it doesn't say "this author hasn't written anything else"). Same with the bio, if the author hasn't entered one, then nothing is displayed (much better than saying, "this author hasn't supplied a bio" ;). Once we've ascertained the level (or not) of support for these two items, work can continue building the backend required to accommodate them. It's been started, but isn't ready for use at this time. Holler if anyone has any questions. Michele _______________________________________________ For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite From bobd at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 9 22:24:24 2001 From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis) Date: Sun Dec 9 22:24:24 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Theforum] +1/-1 Author Info Blocks In-Reply-To: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> References: <02c901c1810a$51402960$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: At 6:36 PM -0500 12/9/01, Michele Foster wrote: > > >(1) Author's block of info as displayed .. photo if one exists, plus number >of articles written average rating and total number of ratings. This block >of info is styled using the sidebar class. +1 >(2) Author's bio and other articles .. located at the end of the article, >before the rating bar. Again, this info is styled using the sidebar class >of the (at this time) existing stylesheet. This includes 5 of the author's >other articles if they exist (there's some fancy math to this, but I can't >remember what it is .. i.e. content categories will be displayed before FAQ >ones .. or something like that). If the author has not written any other >articles, then that part is left off altogether (i.e. it doesn't say "this >author hasn't written anything else"). Same with the bio, if the author >hasn't entered one, then nothing is displayed (much better than saying, >"this author hasn't supplied a bio" ;). -1 :) bob -- bob davis bobd at members.evolt.org http://www.bobdavis.org/ From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 10 00:35:55 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Dec 10 00:35:55 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: simon, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Simon Coggins > > Essentially the idea is to add an additional field in > the article submission form where the author could type > anything they wanted to appear in the document . > This could include javascript, css (either inline or > linked) and meta tags (in particular keywords, title, > description and author). ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< this is a great idea. javascript and css (within reason) i don't have a problem with. meta tags aren't necessary and will be taken care of in a future version so that they're done: a) in a consistent manner for all articles b) use keywords and descriptions that can be stored in such a fashion as to improved searchability within the site i like the idea alot and it wouldn't be very difficult to implement at all. so, +1 from me. anybody else? thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From isaac at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 10 00:46:14 2001 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Mon Dec 10 00:46:14 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > so, +1 from me. anybody else? +1 From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Mon Dec 10 01:03:21 2001 From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns) Date: Mon Dec 10 01:03:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011209230237.01e0d4a0@mail.midtown.net> At 10:37 PM 12/09/2001, .jeff wrote: >so, +1 from me. anybody else? > >thanks, > >.jeff +1 from me, too. Warmly, Shirley -- Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A. SKDesigns mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com Website Design, Development http://www.skdesigns.com/ Pianist, Composer http://www.shirleykaiser.com/ Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/ Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Dec 10 04:49:48 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Mon Dec 10 04:49:48 2001 Subject: [thesite] deo bookmarklet In-Reply-To: <02b101c18102$bfc59800$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: > Simon are you on theforum or just on this list ? Just thesite at the moment I'm afraid - things are busy at work! > | One of you want to write a brief article for Community News pimping d.e.o. > | and letting members know about the bookmarklet and how it works ? I'd be happy to do this - I'll get round to it soon I promise... Simon From webguru at vsnl.net Mon Dec 10 08:10:19 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Dec 10 08:10:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210194107.0589fa40@203.197.12.4> At 12:07 PM 12/10/2001, .jeff typed these words: >so, +1 from me. anybody else? +1 But do you see any potential security risks from allowing JS? I know that we screen articles before approving them, but still... Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu "MadMan" Menon Defender of Justice, Destroyer of Evil, and Keeper of the Knowledge Blog: http://madman.weblogs.com From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 10 09:50:09 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 10 09:50:09 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions References: Message-ID: <046801c18192$f7346920$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | simon, | | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | > From: Simon Coggins | > | > Essentially the idea is to add an additional field in | > the article submission form where the author could type | > anything they wanted to appear in the document . | > This could include javascript, css (either inline or | > linked) and meta tags (in particular keywords, title, | > description and author). | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | | this is a great idea. | | javascript and css (within reason) i don't have a problem with. meta tags | aren't necessary and will be taken care of in a future version so that | they're done: Raises hand ... Add CSS to an individual article? How's that going to work with the user defined (or selected) CSS files? What might look good now, may not look good with other CSS files. What happens if an attribute conflicts with what is in use in the current CSS? I realize there will be an option for Admin to fix any possible conflicts, but isn't that putting a bit too much added responsibility on Admin? Who has time to check that the additions/changes made by the author still maintain browser degradability to the same high standard already in place? I don't think we're ready for this .. The article Simon used as an example, I think the link to the example is PERFECT .. its so much easier for someone to see what's being talked about. If we added that particular example, inline, then the user trying to figure out what's going, by view sourcing the article, is going to have a heck of a time. I see some concerns with allowing article-specific CSS .. and I really wonder how the @import will work on just one article. Let's tread carefully with this idea .. and make sure its a good one and that it would be useful for both authors and users. I'm not seeing a case where an offsite link isn't better. Maybe that's just the way I prefer to read/use articles. I like having a sample open in another window and following along with the how-to. Michele From joshua at alphashop.net Mon Dec 10 09:58:18 2001 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson) Date: Mon Dec 10 09:58:18 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions References: <046801c18192$f7346920$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <082601c18195$2590a070$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> Michelle, you said. : Add CSS to an individual article? How's that going to work with the user : defined (or selected) CSS files? What might look good now, may not look : good with other CSS files. What happens if an attribute conflicts with what : is in use in the current CSS? : : I realize there will be an option for Admin to fix any possible conflicts, : but isn't that putting a bit too much added responsibility on Admin? Who : has time to check that the additions/changes made by the author still : maintain browser degradability to the same high standard already in place? : : I don't think we're ready for this .. Indeed, a very good point. A possible solution, however unpopular, is to change the currently used stylesheet so that the naming conventions are completely, well, unconventional. Such as prefix every class with evolt_ or something, create classes for H# (and all other tags used in the site) in css and go through the entire site and add the class to every instance. YUCK! You're right, CSS could turn into a nightmare. Therefore, -1 on CSS. However, +1 on JS, -1 on Meta tags... though, here's a though. If we do this change, why not automagically change the description and keywords on the article display page to reflect what's actually in the article rather than the default: description: "A world community for web developers, evolt.org promotes the mutual free exchange of ideas, skills and experiences." keywords: "web, internet, design, technology, interface, multimedia, script, commentary, hardware, software, articles, news" Just my 2c. -joshua From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Mon Dec 10 10:30:49 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Mon Dec 10 10:30:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210103103.0288b330@mail.imaginuity.com> On 01:37 PM 12/9/2001, Madhu Menon said to me: >I want to give this IRC thing a spin. Could someone give me details on >what I have to configure on my IRC client for the evolt channel? Is Pirch >a good IRC client? You got me...now, if you needed help with a Mac client... >And do many evolt people hang out on IRC at all? I poke my head in from time to time...seen Dan, Jeff, Michelle there. I'm usually there at nights (in the States, not sure how many time zones that is to India, but you always seem to be up at all hours anyway, Madhu :) --Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From webguru at vsnl.net Mon Dec 10 10:35:47 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Dec 10 10:35:47 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210103103.0288b330@mail.imaginuity.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210220425.01fb2960@203.197.12.4> At 10:02 PM 12/10/2001, Ben Dyer typed these words: >I'm usually there at nights (in the States, not sure how many time zones >that is to India Well, it depends. I'm 10.5 hours ahead of New York and 13.5 hours ahead of San Francisco, which means I get to the day ahead of you Americans ;) >, but you always seem to be up at all hours anyway, Madhu :) I don't have a life, Ben :( I'm the nocturnal animal from hell, and you should see my phone bills! I'm connected 8-12 hours every day. We pay for one call every 3 minutes here in India. Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Mon Dec 10 10:53:19 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Mon Dec 10 10:53:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] IRC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210220425.01fb2960@203.197.12.4> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210103103.0288b330@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011210010554.09aeb5c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210104947.03af8b48@mail.imaginuity.com> On 10:37 AM 12/10/2001, Madhu Menon said to me: >At 10:02 PM 12/10/2001, Ben Dyer typed these words: >>I'm usually there at nights (in the States, not sure how many time zones >>that is to India > >Well, it depends. I'm 10.5 hours ahead of New York and 13.5 hours ahead of >San Francisco, which means I get to the day ahead of you Americans ;) Aha, so you are 11.5 hours ahead of me, then (Texas, which is in the Central Time Zone). >>, but you always seem to be up at all hours anyway, Madhu :) > >I don't have a life, Ben :( Heh, you and me, both. :) >I'm the nocturnal animal from hell, and you should see my phone bills! I'm >connected 8-12 hours every day. We pay for one call every 3 minutes here >in India. Ouch. I'd be in big trouble...except I don't make calls because I have DSL, but, I couldn't imagine high-speed internet being terribly cheap in other countries either, where it's available, that is... I need to go give my DSL modem a hug and let it know I appreciate it. --Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Dec 10 10:54:44 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Mon Dec 10 10:54:44 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: <082601c18195$2590a070$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> Message-ID: > : I realize there will be an option for Admin to fix any possible conflicts, > : but isn't that putting a bit too much added responsibility on Admin? Who > : has time to check that the additions/changes made by the author still > : maintain browser degradability to the same high standard already in place? > : > : I don't think we're ready for this .. > > You're right, CSS could turn into a nightmare. Therefore, -1 on CSS. > > However, +1 on JS, -1 on Meta tags... though, here's a though. I wasn't suggesting giving the author control over the article CSS, just allowing them to create their own classes/ids for use with CSS example articles (so the article and example would be together in one place). Thinking about it though, it would be quite rare for this to be required, and in these cases linking to the example does work alright. Perhaps it is easier to just say no to CSS. As for javascript, it is still possible to include JS in the body if it is required for an example. Although the head is perhaps more correct, it's still valid usage to stick it in the document body so I don't see a problem with leaving that as it is. So that leaves meta tags. I think it would be nice to have descriptions and keywords that fit the articles in question rather than a general evolt description. I don't see why this couldn't be done automatically - take the author from the db, use the synopsis as the description. Keywords are a little tricker - but not impossible to do. So after further thought I'm not certain this is such a good idea after all. Simon -1ing his own ideas so others don't have to... From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 10 10:58:22 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Dec 10 10:58:22 2001 Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions In-Reply-To: <046801c18192$f7346920$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > Add CSS to an individual article? How's that going to > work with the user defined (or selected) CSS files? > What might look good now, may not look good with other > CSS files. What happens if an attribute conflicts with > what is in use in the current CSS? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< that's a non-issue. we would only allow css when it's necessary for an article example -- simon's article being a perfect example. we wouldn't allow styling of elements outside of the actual example. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > I don't think we're ready for this .. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< in contrast, i don't think we can continue without this now that we have a solution to a problem that's been pretty significant in the past. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > The article Simon used as an example, I think the link > to the example is PERFECT .. its so much easier for > someone to see what's being talked about. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< until the example page disappears ... ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > If we added that particular example, inline, then the > user trying to figure out what's going, by view sourcing > the article, is going to have a heck of a time. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< there should be no need to view the source of the article page itself. that need should be alleviated by the author supplying completely working code within
 tags.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I see some concerns with allowing article-specific CSS
> .. and I really wonder how the @import will work on just
> one article.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

there are other articles on the site that could have used the @import but
couldn't because we don't give authors any access to the head of the
document.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I'm not seeing a case where an offsite link isn't
> better.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

having the example in the article is *always* preferable to being offsite
for the purposes of guaranteeing the example is always available and doesn't
disappear due to linkrot.

i can understand your concerns about how you like to read articles, but
right now we don't have a facility for allowing authors to create multiple
pages and therefore the capability of having examples not only in a separate
window, but also keep it all on-site.

so, technicalities over *what* we allow the author to use aside, can you
give the concept in general a +1/-1?

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk  Mon Dec 10 11:19:09 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Mon Dec 10 11:19:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Hmmm, this *is* a tricky one. 

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > What happens if an attribute conflicts with
> > what is in use in the current CSS?
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> that's a non-issue.  we would only allow css when it's necessary for an
> article example -- simon's article being a perfect example.  we wouldn't
> allow styling of elements outside of the actual example.

It's still an issue in that a little more work is required by admin to
check that articles don't override the default CSS. Not too much work, but
still...
 
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > I don't think we're ready for this ..
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> in contrast, i don't think we can continue without this now that we have a
> solution to a problem that's been pretty significant in the past.

Can you give some examples of when this has come up before? 


> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > I'm not seeing a case where an offsite link isn't
> > better.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> having the example in the article is *always* preferable to being offsite
> for the purposes of guaranteeing the example is always available and doesn't
> disappear due to linkrot.

This is why I suggested it in the first place. I think it's much better to
have the article and example in one place, to prevent linkrot and so the
visitor doesn't have their attention disrupted by having to go offsite.

Unfortunately in my article this solution still wouldn't have really
prevented this because I would have still needed to have put the .css file
somewhere else. I couldn't have used inline styles because the @import
syntax was important for hiding the styles from NN4.

Short of creating some sort of examples directory (where authors could
upload examples/css files before submitting their articles) I can't see a
quick fix for this. I guess we have to ask is it worth going that far for
the occasional special case.


Simon





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 11:36:38 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Dec 10 11:36:38 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

simon,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Simon Coggins
>
> > that's a non-issue.  we would only allow css when it's
> > necessary for an article example -- simon's article
> > being a perfect example.  we wouldn't allow styling of
> > elements outside of the actual example.
>
> It's still an issue in that a little more work is
> required by admin to check that articles don't override
> the default CSS. [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

only for the few articles that actually need to use additional css.  all
others it's business as usual.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > in contrast, i don't think we can continue without
> > this now that we have a solution to a problem that's
> > been pretty significant in the past.
>
> Can you give some examples of when this has come up
> before?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

take a look at any of the recent articles on css techniques.  as far as i
can tell they all could have benefited from this.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > having the example in the article is *always*
> > preferable to being offsite for the purposes of
> > guaranteeing the example is always available and
> > doesn't disappear due to linkrot.
>
> This is why I suggested it in the first place. I think
> it's much better to have the article and example in one
> place, to prevent linkrot and so the visitor doesn't
> have their attention disrupted by having to go offsite.
>
> Unfortunately in my article this solution still wouldn't
> have really prevented this because I would have still
> needed to have put the .css file somewhere else. I
> couldn't have used inline styles because the @import
> syntax was important for hiding the styles from NN4.
>
> Short of creating some sort of examples directory (where
> authors could upload examples/css files before
> submitting their articles) I can't see a quick fix for
> this. I guess we have to ask is it worth going that far
> for the occasional special case.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

additional benefit -- articles have a better chance of validating as the
pieces that more appropriately belong in the head can be placed in the head.

the work for this feature is *very* light.  even if it's only used for an
occasional special case then i think it's still worth it.

in the case where the author is linking to external media (images,
stylesheets, javascript files) we can help take care of those few instances
on a case-by-case basis until i can write the piece that will allow authors
to upload/maintain it themselves.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From amanda at gawow.com  Mon Dec 10 11:50:44 2001
From: amanda at gawow.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Mon Dec 10 11:50:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] Why do so many people care?
Message-ID: <000001c181a3$a39221c0$9cd563d8@75CTT01>

I just wanted to throw this out there.

For everyone that has been sweating the author's blocks -- thank you so
much. I think everyone can come pretty close to agreeing that the
concept is a good one that is good for us as we move forward and grow.

However, a lot of people have a lot of opinions on this feature and I
just want to put out there the 'why' of that as I know it can be
frustrating.

This new feature is, to me, the perfect confluence of where so many
aspects of web dev come together. You have to deal with backend code,
front-end code, graphic design, interface design, information design,
community building and just the overall character change that this might
mean for evolt as a whole.

It's big stuff and that's why people care.

I don't have a solution for when this stuff comes up. In my opinion, our
groups have become quite large and somewhat disparate. So, when the
stuff shifts through the group it takes more time then maybe it should
to come to a final solution. This is the "throw it on the wall and see
what sticks" method. As long as we can come out the end with something
that as nearly as possible meets the objectives that it needs to meet
then that is okay.

- amanda

P.S. I'm not subbed to admin or thesite so if you need to flame, don't
forget to cc me at amanda at gawow.com.

___________________________________
amanda at gawow.com + http://gawow.com 




From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk  Mon Dec 10 11:59:07 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Mon Dec 10 11:59:07 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> the work for this feature is *very* light.  even if it's only used for an
> occasional special case then i think it's still worth it.

Well I'm happy if everyone else is. I guess you could always remove it
again if it proves to be a pain.

Simon





From gnarly at punkass.com  Mon Dec 10 14:26:46 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Mon Dec 10 14:26:46 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
References: <01c18039$70ca93a0$b851149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <007a01c181b9$ba964e30$0100a8c0@olly>

----- Original Message -----
From: "rudy" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] ftp to the live site


> >i've uploaded it to w.e.o - the article will have to be updated there as
>
> done

On a related note, I have put together a PSD (Photoshop 6) file based on the
transparent logo images on...
http://www.evolt.org/evolt_images/

Everything is on separate layers, and it has a transparent background, so
that I could set my own alias colour in PS's Save for Web dialog (for
instance I use #6699CC on my site). Its on...
http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/small_evolt_logo.psd
..at present but I was wondering if it was worth adding it to the evolt
image collection in its present PSD format? That way other people can set up
their own alias colour using the Save for Web dialog - the current .gif
images only provide for black and white do they not?

If anybody thinks so please add the image to the evolt_images collection.

Cheers,

Olly.





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 10 14:48:09 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec 10 14:48:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
In-Reply-To: <007a01c181b9$ba964e30$0100a8c0@olly>
Message-ID: <200112102048.fBAKm80E012069@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Olly Hodgson" 
[...] 
> Everything is on separate layers, and it has a transparent background,
> so that I could set my own alias colour in PS's Save for Web dialog
> (for instance I use #6699CC on my site). Its on...
> http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/small_evolt_logo.psd
[...]

psst...
http://roselli.org/new_evolt/logos.asp

very old pages... dunno if you can use anything there, though...




From lists at mantruc.com  Mon Dec 10 16:08:51 2001
From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco (mantruc))
Date: Mon Dec 10 16:08:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
References: <01c18039$70ca93a0$b851149a@rudy> <007a01c181b9$ba964e30$0100a8c0@olly>
Message-ID: <3C1530CB.3B4F92C5@mantruc.com>

Olly Hodgson wrote:

> On a related note, I have put together a PSD (Photoshop 6) file based on the
> transparent logo images on...
> http://www.evolt.org/evolt_images/
>
> Everything is on separate layers, and it has a transparent background, so
> that I could set my own alias colour in PS's Save for Web dialog (for
> instance I use #6699CC on my site). Its on...
> http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/small_evolt_logo.psd
> ..at present but I was wondering if it was worth adding it to the evolt
> image collection in its present PSD format? That way other people can set up
> their own alias colour using the Save for Web dialog - the current .gif
> images only provide for black and white do they not?

hi Olly, thanks for taking the effort.

i wasn't able to see the file you sent (i got PS 5.5 here) but in my experience,
making up transparent images out of small versions gives not very accurante
resutls (no matter how versed you are in Photoshop) and since..

aardvark wrote:
>psst...
>http://roselli.org/new_evolt/logos.asp

i'd suggest that we could publish the "logos_all_50.psd", (but i think we hadn't
published it before because it opens it up for too much manipulation)

NOTE:
i'm sorry for chiming into [thesite] like this, but i'm very sensible woth logos
today, since i just almost died when i saw that a logo i recently designed, was
completely fucked up when implemented on the guy's website, but he understood,
and he's working on the fix.

--
Javier Velasco
Information Architect
Chile
http://mantruc.com





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Dec 10 16:13:48 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Dec 10 16:13:48 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
References: <200112102048.fBAKm80E012069@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C153383.4070405@starkmedia.com>

i think this is a pretty good idea.. maybe more people would make evolt 
type images if they had the sources for them?

aard, would it be a prob to move some of those PSD's and ollys to the 
evolt_images page? maybe something like, "wanna make an evolt image 
yourslef, here's the files to start" would help too

.djc.

aardvark wrote:

>>From: "Olly Hodgson" 
>>
> [...] 
> 
>>Everything is on separate layers, and it has a transparent background,
>>so that I could set my own alias colour in PS's Save for Web dialog
>>(for instance I use #6699CC on my site). Its on...
>>http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/small_evolt_logo.psd
>>
> [...]
> 
> psst...
> http://roselli.org/new_evolt/logos.asp
> 
> very old pages... dunno if you can use anything there, though...





From elfur at elfur.is  Mon Dec 10 16:55:23 2001
From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Mon Dec 10 16:55:23 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
References: 
Message-ID: <1a8901c181ce$1c0a07b0$0100a8c0@DWARFS>

From: ".jeff" 
|
| the work for this feature is *very* light.  even if it's only used for an
| occasional special case then i think it's still worth it.

not to put you down jeff, but you sound you have a *lot* of time on your
hands these days :)

| in the case where the author is linking to external media (images,
| stylesheets, javascript files) we can help take care of those few
instances
| on a case-by-case basis until i can write the piece that will allow
authors
| to upload/maintain it themselves.

here's a suggestion for the case-by-case handling, until the
upload/maintain element gets published.

- shouldn't each author have their own members area (don't they anyways)
and a special '_evolt_articles' folder in there, where they post and link
to all their external data ... that way *we* control the linkrot thing ...
right, and all things are *almost* in one place?

- this is just until the upload your external files happen.

thanks
*the productive one*




From martin at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 17:31:09 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Mon Dec 10 17:31:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: <082601c18195$2590a070$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: 

On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 04:10  pm, Joshua Olson wrote:

> If we do this change, why not automagically change the description and
> keywords on the article display page to reflect what's actually in the
> article rather than the default:
>
> description: "A world community for web developers, evolt.org promotes 
> the
> mutual free exchange of ideas, skills and experiences."
>
> keywords: "web, internet, design, technology, interface, multimedia, 
> script,
> commentary, hardware, software, articles, news"

+1

Description should be the same text as the synopsis imo.

Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 10 17:31:13 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec 10 17:31:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
In-Reply-To: <3C153383.4070405@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200112102331.fBANVC0E022118@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
>
> i think this is a pretty good idea.. maybe more people would make
> evolt type images if they had the sources for them?

hope so...

> aard, would it be a prob to move some of those PSD's and ollys to the
> evolt_images page? maybe something like, "wanna make an evolt image
> yourslef, here's the files to start" would help too
>
> > http://roselli.org/new_evolt/logos.asp

not at all... can't upload 'em, though...

remember, originally we didn't want to hand out the source files 
until we had a feel for how people might use them...

now it's moot, hand out like mad...




From martin at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 17:32:52 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Mon Dec 10 17:32:52 2001
Subject: [thesite] IRC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210220425.01fb2960@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <36F6F029-EDC6-11D5-A0D7-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org>

On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 04:37  pm, Madhu Menon wrote:

> At 10:02 PM 12/10/2001, Ben Dyer typed these words:
>> I'm usually there at nights (in the States, not sure how many time 
>> zones that is to India
>
> Well, it depends. I'm 10.5 hours ahead of New York

iow I'm about 1/2 way between EST and Madhu.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 17:34:05 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Mon Dec 10 17:34:05 2001
Subject: [thesite] IRC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210104947.03af8b48@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <641B9445-EDC6-11D5-A0D7-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org>

On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 04:54  pm, Ben Dyer wrote:

> except I don't make calls because I have DSL, but, I couldn't imagine 
> high-speed internet being terribly cheap in other countries either, 
> where it's available, that is...

When I moved to cable modem, my phone bill dropped by
about ?100 a month. And that was after I stopped working
from home.

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 21:00:28 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Dec 10 21:00:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: <1a8901c181ce$1c0a07b0$0100a8c0@DWARFS>
Message-ID: 

elfur,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Elfur Logadottir
>
> | the work for this feature is *very* light.  even if
> | it's only used for an occasional special case then i
> | think it's still worth it.
>
> not to put you down jeff, but you sound you have a
> *lot* of time on your hands these days :)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i can make time for little things like this.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> here's a suggestion for the case-by-case handling,
> until the upload/maintain element gets published.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you mean so we have to go back and fix all the articles that use this
suggestion?  yuck.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> - shouldn't each author have their own members area
>   (don't they anyways) [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

no, alot of authors don't have m.e.o. space.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>   and a special '_evolt_articles' folder in there, where
>   they post and link to all their external data ... that
>   way *we* control the linkrot thing ... right, and all
>   things are *almost* in one place?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

nope, we don't control their account or the folders in their account.  the
data is also on a separate server.  if the connection to m.e.o. gets messed
up, but not w.e.o. then we have broken images and examples all over the
place.

besides, this is completely unnecessary anyway.  authors that have external
media can send it to someone on admin who has ftp access and we can get it
uploaded.  then they can reference properly in their article.  this isn't a
big deal that requires an intermediate solution beyond what we've done in
the past.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 10 21:40:00 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 10 21:40:00 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
References: <200112102331.fBANVC0E022118@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <04d001c181f5$daecb0c0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Adrian, Olly

I can add these (to teo) if ya want and update the FAQ... (tomorrow)

Should both Photoshop ver. 5 and 6 files be added?  or is ver. 5 all that's
really needed?  (I haven't played with 6 yet).

I presume these will just be linked as layered source files ?

Thanks,

Mich


----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" 


| >
| > > http://roselli.org/new_evolt/logos.asp
|
| not at all... can't upload 'em, though...
|
| remember, originally we didn't want to hand out the source files
| until we had a feel for how people might use them...
|
| now it's moot, hand out like mad...





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 10 23:11:13 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:11:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] Ratings Bar CSS ?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210100951.0214d358@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011210190442.0216ddd0@203.197.12.4> <02d501c18193$335b6d90$79cff3cd@walthers.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011210215541.05889028@203.197.12.4> <00cd01c1819f$577827c0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>
Message-ID: <058a01c18202$96ec5260$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey Joel ..

Guess I put ya on the spot.. hehe .. wasn't intentional.. honest.  :)  Just
wanted to make sure people realized it was being worked on .. and I think
you've managed to get it working quite nicely.

http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/teo/ratings_bar5dec.html

Are we at a point we can determine what CSS classes/attributes need to be
added?

Looking at this ....





The border width is going to need to be styled inline .. no real way to set
that .. as the width is different for each block (table cell).  I need to be
able to set the background colour and the border's colour (and the style of
solid, which is not changeable). Can't use any of the existing border
classes .. as they all have the width specified.  We'll have to add another
bgcolour class .. no way around that .. as the sidebar colour doesn't *have*
to be different than the colour used for the main content area.

So, let's say we add the following:

.rating
{ background : #9AA486 ;     /* RatingBGColor */
  border-color: #000000" ;     /* RatingBorderColor */
  border-style: solid ; }                /*-- */

Then, the text will change to ....






Is this right ?  Can I use a "class=" and "style=" in the same element?
(out of my league here .. sorry)


Adrian, Jeff .. comments too please.

Thanks,

Michele






From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 10 23:13:26 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:13:26 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
In-Reply-To: <04d001c181f5$daecb0c0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3C154F4C.19221.61C070F2@localhost>

> From: "Michele Foster" 
> 
> I can add these (to teo) if ya want and update the FAQ... (tomorrow)

sure, jsut lemme know where they are (path) so we can link...

> Should both Photoshop ver. 5 and 6 files be added?  or is ver. 5 all
> that's really needed?  (I haven't played with 6 yet).

the .psd from my site is PS3.x-friendly...

> I presume these will just be linked as layered source files ?

yes.



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 10 23:26:08 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:26:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
References: 
Message-ID: <059501c18204$aeb71a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey Jeff,

Generally speaking .. I don't have a problem with it .. so, yeah +1.

Just need an added precaution in there for those approving additional CSS
that it will not override something we're using globally and/or that it'll
still work ok in other CSS files.

If I look at Simon's example, what happens to that if we have a page that
uses the same colours?  Then his example will get lost.  Perhaps the
solution here is to put the example in a white (or neutral colour)
background.  Then it will always be viewable .. and it's no longer a concern
if the sample uses the same colours of a user's defined CSS.  Maybe we
should add a sample background colour that can be used in the articles,
where a user is specifying colour attributes specifically for their sample?
Or are you thinking that Simon's example should use Existing classes we have
available?  If so, we could run into a problem when side and main are the
same colour.  :(

All of that aside, as long as whoever is reviewing/approving the article
makes sure it will still be viewable correctly in the other CSS, then no
worries.

Now, with respect to adding the @import to the  .. will the existing
CSS that we are using still be viewable? i.e. can one pick one CSS to be
viewed in all browsers and another one that isn't ?  (I maybe
misunderstanding the use of @import .. I just don't want someone using a
browser that doesn't support @import ending up with a white (i.e. non
styled) page when they view an article that has @import.)

One final point .. you say "we wouldn't allow styling of elements outside of
the actual example." .. This begs the question ... why have it in the 
then and not just inline?

Anyway, if there's anything I need to add to the CSS .. let me know,
otherwise, business as usual .. since I don't approve articles ;)

Mich




----- Original Message -----
From: ".jeff" 


|
| that's a non-issue.  we would only allow css when it's necessary for an
| article example -- simon's article being a perfect example.  we wouldn't
| allow styling of elements outside of the actual example.
|
|
| so, technicalities over *what* we allow the author to use aside, can you
| give the concept in general a +1/-1?
|
| thanks,
|
| .jeff
|
| http://evolt.org/
| jeff at members.evolt.org
| http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
|
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
|




From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Dec 10 23:40:57 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:40:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] Ratings Bar CSS ?
Message-ID: <01c18205$bcbdfea0$e64f149a@rudy>

>
>Is this right ?  Can I use a "class=" and "style=" in the same element?

yes

the way you have it, the style overrides whatever might be in the class

r




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Mon Dec 10 23:47:27 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:47:27 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
In-Reply-To: <059501c18204$aeb71a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 

> One final point .. you say "we wouldn't allow styling of elements
> outside of
> the actual example." .. This begs the question ... why have it in
> the 
> then and not just inline?

Because then you can't demonstrate CSS tricks using @import (i.e., "compare
this article's example in NN and IE").


The greatest advantage (I think), will be allowing the description and
keyword metadata to be set per article.


isaac




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 10 23:49:43 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:49:43 2001
Subject: [thesite] Addition to m.e.o. FAQ was ...  [***list] m.e.o + dreamweaver question
Message-ID: <05b801c18207$f9c984c0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Dan,

You might want to add this to the FAQ for meo accounts.  I can remember this
question coming up in the past .. and I personally remember spending a long
time trying to figure out why I couldn't get it to work properly .. I was
missing the "public_html" part .. never occurred to me I would need that.

Example:


Can I use SSI's? And if so, how?
You betcha. Assuming your web page contains some SSI code in it, you simple
need to give it the .shtml extension so that Apache will recognize it as an
SSI page and parse it that way.


Suggested change (note typo simple = simply)


You betcha. Assuming your web page contains some SSI code in it, you simply
need to give it the .shtml extension so that Apache will recognize it as an
SSI page and parse it that way.  When using the include virtual
statement, the absolute file path is ; where
your_directory is optional and your_file.htm can have the appropriate
extension for your file type.


Please verify this is correct .. ;)

Thanks,

Mich
(spent a good part of a few hours trying to get include virtual to work late
one night)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" 

| Hey Olly -
|
| You'd probably want to use something like:
|
|
| 
|
|
| /home/gnarly is the root of your account fwiw
|
| I think thats the answer to what you're asking.. If not, give another
| holler :)
|





From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Dec 10 23:56:28 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Dec 10 23:56:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
Message-ID: <01c18206$a42223c0$e64f149a@rudy>

> i.e. can one pick one CSS to be viewed in all browsers
> and another one that isn't ?  (I maybe misunderstanding the
> use of @import ..

@import has to come first in the style sheet, but can be followed by other
declarations

it is used basically to hide "dangerous" declarations from netscape 4

rudy




From gnarly at punkass.com  Tue Dec 11 03:46:20 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Dec 11 03:46:20 2001
Subject: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]
References: <3C154F4C.19221.61C070F2@localhost>
Message-ID: <008401c18228$a9880150$0100a8c0@Comp2>

----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Evolt Images [Was re: ftp to the live site]


> > Should both Photoshop ver. 5 and 6 files be added?  or is ver. 5 all
> > that's really needed?  (I haven't played with 6 yet).
>
> the .psd from my site is PS3.x-friendly...

Whereas mine isnt AFAIK. I think it will load in earlier versions (5? 5.5?
'fraid I've only got 6 here so I cant test) with some sort of feature
restriction.

Olly.





From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Dec 11 07:47:01 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Dec 11 07:47:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] An idea regarding article submissions
References:  <059501c18204$aeb71a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <0a5501c1824b$ae94f400$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

: Just need an added precaution in there for those approving additional CSS
: that it will not override something we're using globally and/or that it'll
: still work ok in other CSS files.

Why not include the custom CSS first, then include the global css?

-joshua




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Tue Dec 11 10:04:52 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Dec 11 10:04:52 2001
Subject: [thesite] Vote Results - Author Info Blocks
Message-ID: <010c01c1825d$b9a12640$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey folks ...

Here are the vote results ... please let me know if you've been missed, or
if I've recorded your vote incorrectly.  Anyone else still wishing to vote,
please do so.

Thanks,

Michele



(1) Author's block of info


+1
Michele
Jeff
Isaac
Olly
Hugh*
Jeremy*
Bob D.
Adrian*
Joel
Martin
Jasen (profjj)
Alan McCoy
Miriam*
Wolf
Elfur*
Schaz
Ben

Total:  17


-1
Matt
Amanda*
Rudy
Garrett C.
Dean*
Javi
Shirley
Madhu*

Total:  8


Wants changes:
Amanda (creating sample for author block)
Hugh, Miriam (doesn't like the "Last login: 12/08/2001")
Jeremy (text hard to read on dark background .. asked for screenshot)
Adrian (prefer dd mmm yy and concerns about use of CSS)
Dean (put at bottom if anywhere)
Madhu, Elfur (only User since, Articles written and *maybe* "average
rating")


------------------------------

(2)  Author's bio and other articles


+1
Michele
Jeff
Isaac
Olly
Hugh
Jeremy*
Joel
Martin
Garrett C.
Jasen (profjj)
Dean*
Alan McCoy
Javi
Wolf
Schaz

Total:  15


-1
Matt*
Amanda
Rudy
Bob D.
Adrian*
Miriam*
Madhu*
Ben*

Total:  8


Wants changes:

Matt (bio only, link to all articles, change style)
Jeremy (text hard to read on dark background .. asked for screenshot)
Madhu, Adrian, Ben (wants bio, doesn't like design)
Dean (add top info here)
Miriam (design +)






From webguru at vsnl.net  Tue Dec 11 10:18:02 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Tue Dec 11 10:18:02 2001
Subject: [thesite] Vote Results - Author Info Blocks
In-Reply-To: <010c01c1825d$b9a12640$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011211214620.05a6fc88@203.197.12.4>

At 09:35 PM 12/11/2001, Michele Foster typed these words:
>please let me know if you've been missed, or
>if I've recorded your vote incorrectly.

Yes. Please record my vote as +1 for both. I *want* the author bio and the 
info block. I differ on a few design issues, but not significant enough to 
swing my vote to -1. Given a choice between having it as it is now, and not 
having it, I'll take having it ;)

Thanks,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Tue Dec 11 11:10:34 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Dec 11 11:10:34 2001
Subject: [thesite] Author's Stuff
Message-ID: <015601c18266$e7bd4320$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Dan and Jeff,

Dan, can you continue working on file permission probs?  So we can proceed
with the vote results .. and get teo -> production.

I'll draft something up for displaying user pages late tonight.

Author recognition .. this might make a nice bday present for evolt users,
eh ?  ;)

Jeff, what else needs to be done?   Do you have a chance to add in the new
rating sample that Joel did?  Do you agree with my last comment that the
instructions should appear before the radio buttons, and not after?

Dan, thelist on the sidebar .. are you going to comment that out for the
time being before we roll?

Did the changelog get updated??

Thanks,

Mich





From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Tue Dec 11 16:53:04 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (JCanfield at magisnetworks.com)
Date: Tue Dec 11 16:53:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Ratings Bar CSS ?
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851B23ECD@ns.magisnetworks.com>

Naw; your timing was perfect. 

Yup; your code should work.

Joel
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
x328 


-----Original Message-----
From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Michele Foster
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:14 PM
To: thesite at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thesite] Ratings Bar CSS ?


Hey Joel ..

Guess I put ya on the spot.. hehe .. wasn't intentional.. honest.  :)  Just
wanted to make sure people realized it was being worked on .. and I think
you've managed to get it working quite nicely.

http://members.evolt.org/spinhead/teo/ratings_bar5dec.html

Are we at a point we can determine what CSS classes/attributes need to be
added?

Looking at this ....


 

The border width is going to need to be styled inline .. no real way to set
that .. as the width is different for each block (table cell).  I need to be
able to set the background colour and the border's colour (and the style of
solid, which is not changeable). Can't use any of the existing border
classes .. as they all have the width specified.  We'll have to add another
bgcolour class .. no way around that .. as the sidebar colour doesn't *have*
to be different than the colour used for the main content area.

So, let's say we add the following:

.rating
{ background : #9AA486 ;     /* RatingBGColor */
  border-color: #000000" ;     /* RatingBorderColor */
  border-style: solid ; }                /*-- */

Then, the text will change to ....






Is this right ?  Can I use a "class=" and "style=" in the same element? (out
of my league here .. sorry)


Adrian, Jeff .. comments too please.

Thanks,

Michele




_______________________________________________
For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Dec 11 16:57:08 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Dec 11 16:57:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] Author's Stuff
References: <015601c18266$e7bd4320$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3C168EAC.4000506@starkmedia.com>


Michele Foster wrote:

> Dan and Jeff,
> 
> Dan, can you continue working on file permission probs?  So we can proceed
> with the vote results .. and get teo -> production.


still am, aye. they're wide open for jeffy

 
> I'll draft something up for displaying user pages late tonight.


cool

 
> Author recognition .. this might make a nice bday present for evolt users,
> eh ?  ;)
> 
> Jeff, what else needs to be done?   Do you have a chance to add in the new
> rating sample that Joel did?  Do you agree with my last comment that the
> instructions should appear before the radio buttons, and not after?
> 
> Dan, thelist on the sidebar .. are you going to comment that out for the
> time being before we roll?


yes

 
> Did the changelog get updated??


i believe so

weeeeeee

.djc.




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Tue Dec 11 18:24:25 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Dec 11 18:24:25 2001
Subject: [thesite] Author Block .. contrast
Message-ID: <021501c182a3$83d159e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Jeff,

Have a look at this .. from Jeremy,
http://members.evolt.org/ashcraft/images/author1.png

There's not enough contrast ... the white (cream) is pretty difficult to see
on the sidebar's bgcolour.  Looks better bolded as usually how its used in
the sidebar (- admin).. whatcha think?  Even with black, the contrast would
be better; however, we've used black to indicate the links, so, probably not
best to use that here, especially since all sidebar classed links are not
underlined, except in hover/active states.

The same contrast problem exists for the author bio block of info

moz 0.9.5 on Mandrake 8.0 - res 1280x1024, taken at 1024x800 (or so).


Mich





From rudy937 at rogers.com  Wed Dec 12 08:18:56 2001
From: rudy937 at rogers.com (rudy937)
Date: Wed Dec 12 08:18:56 2001
Subject: [thesite] possible hiccough in swingin sexy url scheme
Message-ID: <000e01c18318$d7e0eb20$b1ee6518@cr293583a>

hi jeff

did a search for "evolt" in the google archive of usenet posts

there's some interesting stuff in there -- mostly the browser archive, but
several which make it appear that evolt is a pretty respected authority,
especially when guys like alan flavell start citing us --
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=evolt++-browser&start=30&hl=en&rnum=38&sel
m=Pine.LNX.4.30.0107211758460.20866-100000%40lxplus023.cern.ch)

anyhow, on another post i clicked through on an old style evolt link, and it
didn't work

please try it, here's the post --

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=evolt&start=20&hl=en&rnum=22&selm=donarb-0
511991101270001%40ip230.usw3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com

note the link is

  http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=454

and it gets translated as

http://www.evolt.org/:%20http://www.evolt.org/article/Workaround_for_radio_b
utton_color_problem/17/454/index.html

i.e. it looks like it's searching for ": http:" (see keyword input field)

this is not a big problem (didn't we decide to abandon old style urls?) but
i thought you should know...


rudy





From djc at starkmedia.com  Wed Dec 12 10:05:35 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec 12 10:05:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] possible hiccough in swingin sexy url scheme
References: <000e01c18318$d7e0eb20$b1ee6518@cr293583a>
Message-ID: <3C177FB8.70708@starkmedia.com>


rudy937 wrote:


> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=evolt&start=20&hl=en&rnum=22&selm=donarb-0
> 511991101270001%40ip230.usw3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com
> 
> note the link is
> 
>   http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=454
> 
> and it gets translated as
> 
> http://www.evolt.org/:%20http://www.evolt.org/article/Workaround_for_radio_b
> utton_color_problem/17/454/index.html
> 
> i.e. it looks like it's searching for ": http:" (see keyword input field)
> 
> this is not a big problem (didn't we decide to abandon old style urls?) but
> i thought you should know...


we never abondoned them.. they're supposed to return a 301 status code, 
and redirect to the article in question(this was a prob when we switched 
to 2.0.. we we're just redirecting with a 200 and bots indexed the 
redirect page instead of the content page)

i would say that i've noticed this a *lot* in the referer log lately, 
but didnt think anything of it till now.. the app_404.cfm file which 
handles the old school url scheme is the same as its been as far as i 
can tell, so i'm wondering if the Application.cfm(with the old url.cid 
var) got changed?

.djc.





From djc at starkmedia.com  Wed Dec 12 10:34:56 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec 12 10:34:56 2001
Subject: [thesite] possible hiccough in swingin sexy url scheme
References: <000e01c18318$d7e0eb20$b1ee6518@cr293583a> <3C177FB8.70708@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3C178699.608@starkmedia.com>

found the prob, typo in the  tag..

fixed on live and t.e.o

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> 
> 
> rudy937 wrote:
> 
> 
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=evolt&start=20&hl=en&rnum=22&selm=donarb-0 
>>
>> 511991101270001%40ip230.usw3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com
>>
>> note the link is
>>
>>   http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=454
>>
>> and it gets translated as
>>
>> http://www.evolt.org/:%20http://www.evolt.org/article/Workaround_for_radio_b 
>>
>> utton_color_problem/17/454/index.html
>>
>> i.e. it looks like it's searching for ": http:" (see keyword input field)
>>
>> this is not a big problem (didn't we decide to abandon old style 
>> urls?) but
>> i thought you should know...
> 
> 
> 
> we never abondoned them.. they're supposed to return a 301 status code, 
> and redirect to the article in question(this was a prob when we switched 
> to 2.0.. we we're just redirecting with a 200 and bots indexed the 
> redirect page instead of the content page)
> 
> i would say that i've noticed this a *lot* in the referer log lately, 
> but didnt think anything of it till now.. the app_404.cfm file which 
> handles the old school url scheme is the same as its been as far as i 
> can tell, so i'm wondering if the Application.cfm(with the old url.cid 
> var) got changed?
> 
> .djc.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite





From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 12 15:12:54 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Dec 12 15:12:54 2001
Subject: [thesite] CSS stupidity on the site?
Message-ID: <200112122112.fBCLCrSP009304@leo.evolt.org>

so i'm working on this gig here, and i needed all  elements in 
one section of the page to get the same coloring without affecting 
the others... and since that part of the page had a class, it was a 
no brainer:

.PullQuote a:link	{ text-decoration : underline ;
				color : #ffff00 ; }

.PullQuote a:visited	{ text-decoration : underline ;
				color : #ffff00 ; }

and while walking to the men's room it hit me... why didn't i do this 
for the evolt.org site? was i on crack?  is there a reason i didn't?  
did/does *anybody* see why we couldn't or can't do this?

so, currently all elements in the sidebar on the evolt site are in a 
container classed "side" and *every*  in there is classed 
"sidebar"... that's a lot of hassle and code...

can we dump all those classes in the s and update our CSS as 
such?

.side a:link	{	text-decoration : none ;
			color : #333333 ; }

.side a:visited {	text-decoration : none ;
			color : #666666 ; }

.side a:hover	{	text-decoration : underline ;
			color : #000000 ; }

anybody see any issues with this before i invest time testing it?

if it works, we can float it to the "tabtextnav" and "title"  
classes... maybe...

...?



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Wed Dec 12 15:20:26 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Wed Dec 12 15:20:26 2001
Subject: [thesite] CSS stupidity on the site?
References: <200112122112.fBCLCrSP009304@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <029c01c18353$05d11fc0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Adrian

STOP!!

Already fixed and tested ... :)

Most of it happened when you went to NYC a couple weeks ago and were so
busy.

Check out isaac.css on teo .. if you see any probs I'd appreciate knowing
about it.  You can check the archives to see what browsers we tested it in,
etc.

The only problem we came across was some old versions of NS 4.x for both mac
and pc were not interpreting the colour chosen for the active state on some
links and were defaulting to "red".  A small concern .. and one that we
chose to not worry about.

Since then the CSS file and the HTML on teo have been updated.

However, if you have a custom style selected on teo, you'll have to log out
to see the changes.

The CSS file contains comments which say exactly what was done.  We also
made the title of articles on the homepage, 

, and classed them accordingly. Made more sense than classes a title, when search engines like

better. Again, if anything is whacked, please let me know. I'm still learning and testing, etc. Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" | and while walking to the men's room it hit me... why didn't i do this | for the evolt.org site? was i on crack? is there a reason i didn't? | did/does *anybody* see why we couldn't or can't do this? | | so, currently all elements in the sidebar on the evolt site are in a | container classed "side" and *every* in there is classed | "sidebar"... that's a lot of hassle and code... | | can we dump all those classes in the s and update our CSS as | such? | | .side a:link { text-decoration : none ; | color : #333333 ; } | | .side a:visited { text-decoration : none ; | color : #666666 ; } | | .side a:hover { text-decoration : underline ; | color : #000000 ; } | | anybody see any issues with this before i invest time testing it? | | if it works, we can float it to the "tabtextnav" and "title" | classes... maybe... From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 20:07:38 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Dec 12 20:07:38 2001 Subject: [thesite] CSS stupidity on the site? In-Reply-To: <029c01c18353$05d11fc0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C17C6C5.25547.6B6320D2@localhost> > From: "Michele Foster" [...] > Already fixed and tested ... :) oh... > Most of it happened when you went to NYC a couple weeks ago and were > so busy. figgers... From dmah at shaw.ca Fri Dec 14 10:24:49 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Fri Dec 14 10:24:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display Message-ID: <200112141625.JAA01416@alice.monkeyland.ca> Hey all, I've heard some complaints that people don't like the new style of displaying tips. They want to go back to the old way, i.e., tips all enclosed in
 tags and a week at a glance.  So I've added a
feature to show it this way.  Take a look at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/

Notice the addition of the '(flat)' link.  It takes you to the
original style.

Questions:

   1) Is this too cluttered?

   2) Will everyone know what 'flat' means in this context?

   3) Is there a better way of conveying this information?

Thanks,
Dean




From joshua at alphashop.net  Fri Dec 14 10:39:02 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Dec 14 10:39:02 2001
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display
References: <200112141625.JAA01416@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <02bb01c184bf$5286f200$a600a8c0@dbmonkey>

what about borrowing the term "digest" instead of introducing "flat"?

I think it looks pretty cluttered, like you pointed out.  I'm not sure if
there's a better way, except maybe introduce a digest icon of some sort.
But I'd definitely stick with the word "digest" instead of "flat" since it's
already being used elsewhere.

-joshua


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Mah" 
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display


: Hey all,
:
: I've heard some complaints that people don't like the new style of
: displaying tips.  They want to go back to the old way, i.e., tips all
: enclosed in 
 tags and a week at a glance.  So I've added a
: feature to show it this way.  Take a look at:
:
:    http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/
:
: Notice the addition of the '(flat)' link.  It takes you to the
: original style.
:
: Questions:
:
:    1) Is this too cluttered?
:
:    2) Will everyone know what 'flat' means in this context?
:
:    3) Is there a better way of conveying this information?
:
: Thanks,
: Dean





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Dec 14 11:25:06 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Dec 14 11:25:06 2001
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display
References: <200112141625.JAA01416@alice.monkeyland.ca> <02bb01c184bf$5286f200$a600a8c0@dbmonkey>
Message-ID: <000a01c184c4$794e0fe0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

+1 to what Josh says .. use the term [digest]

I really dislike that version .. it looks awful.  The new version is so much
better.

Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to read through the responses and
to get a feel for the comments and assess what the complaints are.  As far
as I'm concerned, all the work you've done on the tip harvester is awesome.
I still think many people may not even be aware of all the work that's been
done recently (i.e. not promoted, they looked once, and haven't been back).

I think there's some work that we can do to make the tip harvester more
useful.  There's a vast amount of information in there.

Let's discuss it more .. but not worry too much about improving it "today".
I think there's talk of incorporating the tips into the new design, this
needs to be considered as well.

One final thought .. it might be worthwhile to write up a short article for
Community News announcing the enhancements/features of the Tip Harvester.
Include things such as how it tries to match the tip author with a userid on
weo, the search functions available, the categorization of tips (i.e. what
the author used, and the canonical  category manually chosen), etc.
Then at the end of the article, you can suggest that any enhancements,
improvements, etc. can be posted in the comments.   Just a suggestion... it
might give us more valid data to work with, and also promote the tip
harvester and all the work that's gone into making it more useful than it
was a few months ago.


Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" 


| what about borrowing the term "digest" instead of introducing "flat"?
|
| :
| :    http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/
| :





From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Dec 14 11:42:22 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Dec 14 11:42:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display
In-Reply-To: <000a01c184c4$794e0fe0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Dec 14, 2001 12:26:32 PM
Message-ID: <200112141742.KAA01852@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Michele Foster writes:

> +1 to what Josh says .. use the term [digest]

Makes it even more cluttered, but I changed it.  I like the idea of an
icon or something.


> I really dislike that version .. it looks awful.  The new version is
> so much better.

More than one person has said that they preferred the old version.
They found it cumbersome to have to keep clicking to each tip.  In
fact, some people have stopped reading the tips for that reason.


> Let's discuss it more .. but not worry too much about improving it
> "today".  I think there's talk of incorporating the tips into the
> new design, this needs to be considered as well.

Yes, but I'd like to get something done immediately rather than
waiting for the redesign.  I don't want to lose anymore viewers.


> One final thought .. it might be worthwhile to write up a short
> article for Community News announcing the enhancements/features of
> the Tip Harvester.

I'll try to put something together.


Dean



From martin at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec 14 12:22:07 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Fri Dec 14 12:22:07 2001
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display
In-Reply-To: <000a01c184c4$794e0fe0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <039C21A8-F0BF-11D5-A01C-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org>

On Friday, December 14, 2001, at 05:26  pm, Michele Foster wrote:

> One final thought .. it might be worthwhile to write up a short article 
> for
> Community News announcing the enhancements/features of the Tip 
> Harvester.

+1

Also some positive snippets from the survey

Cheers
Martin
_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID:	0xA835CCCB
	martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail:	30 Shandon Place
   tel:	+44 (0)774 063 9985				Edinburgh,
   url:	http://www.easyweb.co.uk			Scotland




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 16 02:07:44 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sun Dec 16 02:07:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: [Theforum] Re: Sub-categories
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011216102712.01ca9d68@203.197.12.4>
References: <4.2.2.20011215233129.016da210@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C1C0FAE.12539.7C1FECE9@localhost>

> From: Madhu Menon 
[...]

i'm gonna take a step here, madhu, and state first off that your 
insight is valuable... i also want to say that much (all) of what you 
detail below has actually been discussed in painful detail in the 
past, so we *are* familiar with these issues... it may be hard to 
believe based on what you see on the site, but we have actually 
spent a lot of time going over this stuff...  i also didn't

> Typically, classification ala Yahoo becomes necessary when you have
> far too much content to place in one category. Putting 300 articles
> into one category becomes unwieldy.

that's a given... and we're not proposing that...

> There are also problems with classifying everything in detail:
> 
> 1) It can actually make something *harder* to find.

that's part of the reason why we have left our categories general... 
it's also one of the reasons we've always wanted to add the one-to-
many article-to-category relationship... after all, after three years, a 
lot of articles come in that could belong equally in more than one 
category (like my browser window size logging, which uses both 
JS and ASP to do its work)...

i've trimmed your example because, well, we've seen it before... 
quite often, in fact...

[...]
> Now, assume that evolt had the same subcategories under "Backend >
> ASP". So we have:
> 
> Backend > ASP >  .NET Framework
> Backend > ASP >  Components
> Backend > ASP >  Data Access
> Backend > ASP >  DNA 2000
> Backend > ASP >  E-commerce
> Backend > ASP >  Performance
> Backend > ASP >  Security/Admin
> Backend > ASP >  Site Design
> Backend > ASP >  Scripting
> Backend > ASP >  XML/Data Transfer
> Backend > ASP >  Other Technologies
[...]

i don't think anyone wants to get any more granular than that 
second level... it's a no-brainer to know that an article about an 
online store and catalog site will have elements that belong in 
nearly every sub-sub-category...

[...]
> Of course, the information architect would say that you should put an
> article into more than one category to prevent this problem. Indeed,
> that's what ASPToday has done. But our CMS won't permit that.

erm, i'll defer to others on that, but i know the framework was at 
least worked on... and it's been our radar since before there was a 
site... again, volunteers using their free time...

[...]
> They have another method of classification - by article type:
> 
> Article Types
>    Cutting Edge
>    In Depth
>    Overview
>    Tutorial

we've also talked about that... one of our original ideas involved this 
two-axis approach... one left-brained, on right-brained (so to 
speak)... again, in order to launch the site and get it running 
(especially as volunteers), we've often moved something out to see 
how it's received and because it would be another 8 months to 
build it fully...

[...]
> In my weblog entry linked above, I've shown how it takes seven clicks
> to get to the Yahoo category for "Weblogs". How many people will do
> that? More importantly, how many people will do it *correctly*. Many
> will click on at least one wrong subcategory along the way, and they
> will then reach nowhere.

most people would search it, because yahoo is so dense and 
deep... i don't consider yahoo a valid analog here...

as for your article, i don't want to get into a critique of it, but some 
of the conclusions you make are based on a much different user 
perspective than many users have... if you restrict a user to *one* 
method of finding info on a site known for another method 
altogether, you're going to absolutely have that kind of hassle... 
and without a suggested fix, it's really nothing more than an 
observation of the obvious... nor does it answer the title of the 
article... so, yeah, it's an interesting read, but i don't see a bearing 
here...

> 2) You need to have content for all categories.
[...]

don't worry about that... we've never launched a new cat without 
creating some content, and the couple times we've split a cat, 
we've waited until we had enough articles to move over to make it 
worthwhile...

> I'm just putting forward some of the IA issues we have to consider.

i understand, but don't forget that there are some IA guys here 
already... while i don't call myself an IA expert (i don't even use the 
term to describe myself), i spend a *lot* time doing UI testing and 
research... and there are enough others here, too, who've been 
considering these issues since day one...

(in fact, what does it take to call yourself an IA expert?  is there a 
guideline?  can i start calling myself one because i've worked on UI 
development for almost ten years now?  or that my own assertions 
always bear out in user testing?  or just because i can quote Fitt's 
Law and know Tog isn't a drink?)

part of the reason i'm saying this is to establish that:

- we're not IA-deficient...

- i'm not going to agree with you on everything you're saying, and 
given your matter-of-fact statements about what's good or bad in 
IA, i want to make sure that you know you'll get challenged (so you 
don't think i'm ambushing you or just waving my wanker)...

- we've been through this before, and the right answers aren't 
always that clear to us before *or* after...

- we have a survey out there that's going to help us with *some* of 
these decisions, so your suggestions may be jumping the gun...

> I'm not making recommendations yet, but my gut tells me that: a) Any
> more than one subcategory will not work (i.e., stop at "Backend >
> ASP"), unless evolt gets acquired by someone like Internet.com

don't worry about that, it was shot down in general three years ago 
with the knowledge that we would only do it if we had a *crapload* 
of stuff and a one-to-many cat setup...

> tomorrow ;) b) We need to identify articles by target audience i.e.,
> Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced/Expert

i don't think we need to... and you can be darn sure i'll disagree 
with people on what's intermediate and what's advanced... only 
because *so* many other sites list articles as advanced that leave 
me laughing at how simple they are (on topics i don't specialize 
in)... no, i say we consider skipping that because it sets an 
expectation that we can't control because level is *purely* 
subjective for each person... i'm going to *strongly* resist this 
because as a user, it's let me down nearly every time...

> [...] c) We *may* need to add an
> "article type" like ASPToday has (see above) d) We need to take
> another look at our existing categories. e) If we change the structure

c, see other comments...

d is a given, however, i think you know just changing cats we've 
had for three years without a *damn* good reason is a very bad 
idea... so, barring an overriding reason, i don't see us changing, 
just refining... you have already made this point in other posts, so i 
expect you know where i'm coming from...

> of the site, moving articles to the appropriate category is going to
> be a hard, and interesting. :)

yep... we've been there both en mass (for cat changes) and for 
every individual article that gets submitted... good thing we've done 
pretty well at that so far, that should make us qualified to guide the 
process next time out...

[...]
> Are the search queries logged somewhere? Dan? Jeff? Rudy? Is there
> some way the IAs (Javier and I so far. Any other volunteers?) could
> take a look at this?

yes, read dan's monthly log reports... he usually tells us the top 
search terms, and if you check the logs (i sent you the URLs for 
the last 6 months a few weeks ago), they are probably in there...




From webguru at vsnl.net  Sun Dec 16 02:35:06 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Sun Dec 16 02:35:06 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: [Theforum] Re: Sub-categories
In-Reply-To: <3C1C0FAE.12539.7C1FECE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011216102712.01ca9d68@203.197.12.4>
 <4.2.2.20011215233129.016da210@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011216134813.01d41c90@203.197.12.4>

I'm gonna take a step here, and ask why the tone of your message suggests 
that I somehow insulted your intelligence and that I said something akin to 
"You didn't put any thought in building the site". I did no such thing.


At 01:36 PM 12/16/2001, aardvark typed these words:
>i'm gonna take a step here, madhu, and state first off that your
>insight is valuable... i also want to say that much (all) of what you
>detail below has actually been discussed in painful detail in the
>past, so we *are* familiar with these issues...

Perhaps, but I haven't seen it discussed in theforum. It may have been 
discussed in admin while building the site last year, but since this is a 
bigger group (many of whom were not privy to your earlier discussions) and 
since we *are* considering redesigning the site, I just revisited the issue.

"We" is not the same group it used to be. It's 55 people now. If it's been 
discussed before, please tell us what was discussed and what conclusions 
you reached. I'm not assuming anything. Assumption is dangerous.


>it may be hard to
>believe based on what you see on the site, but we have actually
>spent a lot of time going over this stuff...  i also didn't

I don't understand why you think I'm attacking you (as in all of you) or 
your abilities, or why I would think that no thought was put into building 
the site. Is there something I've done that's bugging you?


>most people would search it, because yahoo is so dense and
>deep... i don't consider yahoo a valid analog here...

I *didn't* use it as an analogy. I specifically used it as an example of 
what *not* to do, since we *don't* have that much content.


>i understand, but don't forget that there are some IA guys here
>already...

I know that.


>while i don't call myself an IA expert (i don't even use the
>term to describe myself), i spend a *lot* time doing UI testing and
>research... and there are enough others here, too, who've been
>considering these issues since day one...

Again, why do you see my post as a reflection on your abilities or experience?


>(in fact, what does it take to call yourself an IA expert?  is there a
>guideline?  can i start calling myself one because i've worked on UI
>development for almost ten years now?  or that my own assertions
>always bear out in user testing?  or just because i can quote Fitt's
>Law and know Tog isn't a drink?)

Nope, there is no guideline. Call yourself an IA expert by all means. I 
don't call myself one, fwiw. I don't have a library science background either.


>- i'm not going to agree with you on everything you're saying, and
>given your matter-of-fact statements about what's good or bad in
>IA, i want to make sure that you know you'll get challenged (so you
>don't think i'm ambushing you or just waving my wanker)...

Well, I expect debate. That's what a mailing list is for, isn't it?
Are you objecting to me stating my opinions on IA or anything else? What 
else am I supposed to do? Keep quiet? I can do that too.



>- we have a survey out there that's going to help us with *some* of
>these decisions, so your suggestions may be jumping the gun...

I *did* say I wasn't making any suggestions. It's towards the end of my 
message. I said it was a gut feel.


> > I'm not making recommendations yet, but my gut tells me that: a) Any

Yes, this was the line I referred to.


Madhu




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Sun Dec 16 19:05:01 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Sun Dec 16 19:05:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] bug? (Someone is talking... email)
Message-ID: <20011217010451.11293@polytechnic.co.uk>

For some reason I appear to be getting two of these everytime someone
comments on my PHP article. One has "Hello Garrett", and then the second
(as below) just has "Hello".

I can forward on full headers if anyone needs 'em.

G.


---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Subject: Someone is talking...
Date Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 06:37 pm
From: info at evolt.org


      
Hello,
    
ezra has commented on a discussion thread you posted
to evolt.org.  Would you like to read what was written?
    
http://www.evolt.org/article/view/17/15049/index.html#comments
    
Thanks,
    
evolt.org staff
_______________________________________
(if you would like to turn off this automatic notification, you may
do so on the site- just log in and click on 'Edit Account'.)
    	

----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------

-- 
----------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sun Dec 16 19:44:59 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sun Dec 16 19:44:59 2001
Subject: [thesite] bug? (Someone is talking... email)
References: <20011217010451.11293@polytechnic.co.uk>
Message-ID: <012e01c1869c$c085d120$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey Garrett,

Jeff's fixed the bugs with the email notifications on t.e.o.  Both the
missing names (I think?) and the duplicate messages being sent to both an
author and if one comments on their own article.

Hopefully we'll roll teo --> production *soon*  ;)

Mich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrett Coakley" 


|
| For some reason I appear to be getting two of these everytime someone
| comments on my PHP article. One has "Hello Garrett", and then the second
| (as below) just has "Hello".
|
| I can forward on full headers if anyone needs 'em.





From mnickel at www.llamacom.com  Sun Dec 16 23:22:22 2001
From: mnickel at www.llamacom.com (Mark Nickel)
Date: Sun Dec 16 23:22:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] UEUE v0.4 - Circumventing the cookie scr1ptk1dd1es
Message-ID: 


As promised, here are some more thoughts on making UEUE work for all of 
evolt without excluding m.e.o. (members.evolt.org)


I've got the raw form of this discussion here:
http://members.evolt.org/mnickel/weblog
This is stream of conscious stuff, so be kind.


This latest version of UEUE is inspired by a list of links that Dan 
originally provided a while back:

http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-November/1564208.html

Most specifically the Nareau Project link was what got me thinking more 
about how user authentication really works.

Here is a link to the document off of my main site:
http://members.evolt.org/mnickel/ueue.0.4.html

In a nutshell the solution to the cookie-hijacking is to establish a group 
of trusted URL's within the UEUE authentication architecture.  If you are 
coming from an untrusted URL to a trusted URL, you will be re-prompted for 
your password.  UEUE cookies will be correctly deleted and recreated as 
necessary before they get to the Javascript haxors.. This is the best way, 
short of Digital certs. and bio-scanners, to prove your identity IMHO 
using browser-based technology.  

I know that people are going to balk at having to reenter their passwords,
but, as I mention on my document, we will quickly be able to identify a 
large set of trusted URL's so if you browse common m.e.o sites, (like
here for example: http://members.evolt.org/members.cfm) you won't be
reentering your password...

For me personally, I'm very comfortable with what I'm proposing so I'm 
going to move to the coding stage...  weeeeeee!  Dan's favorite words, 
"Show me the code!"  Once there's something sticking (*not* stinking.. :))
to the virtual wall, then it will be much easier for others to pick about 
the internals...

I think that this is a "good enough" solution, will work well, and be a
step above simply re-creating M$-Passport.  :)

weeeeeeee!  Peace outside!

Mark




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 17 01:13:04 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 17 01:13:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Search
Message-ID: <01eb01c186ca$9874ed00$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey Dean,

I think the tip harvester search is acting up ... doesn't seem to be working
at the moment (using the advanced search).

Also, is it possible (when it is working ;) that one can search by category
only?  i.e. I want to view all the ASP tips .. without putting in a keyword?

Hmm.. interesting point, if I use the main search box, from the tips page,
it returns results, but the advanced one is acting up, showing no results.
Might be a problem with the "all authors" not being passed?

<
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/index.html?userid=-1&key
words=php&option=all&tid=-1&maxrows=10 >


Thanks,

Mich





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Dec 17 01:48:37 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Dec 17 01:48:37 2001
Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display
References: <200112141742.KAA01852@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <022701c186cf$8ec34a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Dean,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Mah" 


| Makes it even more cluttered, but I changed it.  I like the idea of an
| icon or something.


Yeah, it is rather cluttered looking.  Perhaps one of our graphics gurus can
make an icon for it.  In the interim, you may want to try:

[Digest] to see if that looks better. Mich From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 17 01:53:46 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 17 01:53:46 2001 Subject: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) Message-ID: <022f01c186d0$491c5e40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hey folks, Does anyone want to create an Icon or symbol that can be used on this page: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest If you notice there are two versions of the tip harvester displayed for each week. One in the new format (archived list), one in the old format ([digest] - contains the entire week on one page). Any samples that will help with intuitiveness, usability and making the page look less cluttered .... ?? Thanks, Mich/Dean (Sent under a different header to grab the attention of our graphics gurus on this list .. original thread here: http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-December/1564803.html) From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Mon Dec 17 04:17:44 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Mon Dec 17 04:17:44 2001 Subject: [thesite] bug? (Someone is talking... email) In-Reply-To: <012e01c1869c$c085d120$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> References: <012e01c1869c$c085d120$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <20011217101810.22818@polytechnic.co.uk> On Sunday, December 16, 2001, Michele Foster (michele at wordpro.on.ca) said: >Hey Garrett, > >Jeff's fixed the bugs with the email notifications on t.e.o. Both the >missing names (I think?) and the duplicate messages being sent to both an >author and if one comments on their own article. > >Hopefully we'll roll teo --> production *soon* ;) K, cheers. G. -- ---------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk From dmah at shaw.ca Mon Dec 17 07:37:13 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Mon Dec 17 07:37:13 2001 Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display In-Reply-To: <022701c186cf$8ec34a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Dec 17, 2001 02:50:54 AM Message-ID: <200112171337.GAA00885@alice.monkeyland.ca> Ok, I've made it smalltext. Dean Michele Foster writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean Mah" > > | Makes it even more cluttered, but I changed it. I like the idea of an > | icon or something. > > > Yeah, it is rather cluttered looking. Perhaps one of our graphics gurus can > make an icon for it. In the interim, you may want to try: > > [Digest] > > to see if that looks better. From dmah at shaw.ca Mon Dec 17 07:38:05 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Mon Dec 17 07:38:05 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Search In-Reply-To: <01eb01c186ca$9874ed00$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Dec 17, 2001 02:15:23 AM Message-ID: <200112171338.GAA00895@alice.monkeyland.ca> Michele Foster writes: > I think the tip harvester search is acting up ... doesn't seem to be > working at the moment (using the advanced search). Fixed. > Also, is it possible (when it is working ;) that one can search by > category only? i.e. I want to view all the ASP tips .. without > putting in a keyword? When it's working, that's the way it does work. Dean From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 17 07:46:56 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 17 07:46:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Search References: <200112171338.GAA00895@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <001201c18701$8319aea0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Awesome .. thanks Dean :) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" | Michele Foster writes: | | > I think the tip harvester search is acting up ... doesn't seem to be | > working at the moment (using the advanced search). | | Fixed. | | | > Also, is it possible (when it is working ;) that one can search by | > category only? i.e. I want to view all the ASP tips .. without | > putting in a keyword? | | When it's working, that's the way it does work. | | | Dean | | _______________________________________________ | For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: | http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite | From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Dec 17 09:25:01 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Dec 17 09:25:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [***list] m.e.o + dreamweaver question References: <005901c18676$70f96520$0100a8c0@olly> <3C1E0B63.2020407@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <00a001c1870f$3af553a0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Dan, Please do add this info to meo FAQ pages .... See this message from last week .. http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-December/1564787.html Though it looks like what I wrote isn't accurate .. based on this email. (No wonder I couldn't figure it out .. ;) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" | Cool, thanks for the heads up! I'll be sure to file this one away to add | to the m.e.o FAQ | | And you should put the .htaccess file in whichever directory you want it | to affect. If you have a /secret directory the best place would be to | put it in /home/user/public_html/secret | | Shout if you have any other questions :) | | .djc. | | Olly Hodgson wrote: | | nally got around to testing this, and: | > | > | > | > results in the good 'ol [an error occurred while processing this directive] | > :-/ OTOH, | > | > | > | > does work. Am I missing something obvious? Should I just not worry about it | > and stick /home/gnarly/ in front of everything? | > | > Secondly, if I was to put a .htacess file on the server, should it go in | > public_html? From webguru at vsnl.net Mon Dec 17 12:57:22 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Mon Dec 17 12:57:22 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <200112171852.fBHIqBb3013816@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218002539.01d488e8@203.197.12.4> At 01:17 AM 12/18/2001, thomas800 at email.com typed these words: >For providing the account where we shall remit the money into, you will be >entitled to 30% of the money,60% will be for me andmy partners while 10% >has been mapped out from the total sum to cover any expenses that may be >incurred by us during the course of this transfer,both locally and >international expenses. It may interest you to know Wow! This deal is too good to be true. I'm going to volunteer my information right away. If you folks want gobs of money, you should join too! (how the hell did this bugger get this list's email address?) Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From roselli at earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 13:06:49 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon Dec 17 13:06:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218002539.01d488e8@203.197.12.4> References: <200112171852.fBHIqBb3013816@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <200112171906.fBHJ6mb3014863@leo.evolt.org> > From: Madhu Menon [...] > (how the hell did this bugger get this list's email address?) public list, public address... and we've voted to keep the list open instead of closed and moderated every time this pops up, so we'll see these little things every now and then... so, about that money... From mwarden at mattwarden.com Mon Dec 17 13:33:36 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Mon Dec 17 13:33:36 2001 Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display In-Reply-To: <022701c186cf$8ec34a40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: On Dec 17, Michele Foster had something to say about Re: [thesite] Original... >Yeah, it is rather cluttered looking. Perhaps one of our graphics gurus can >make an icon for it. In the interim, you may want to try: > >[Digest] > >to see if that looks better. Woman, were you raised in a (Canadian) barn? Personally, if it works, I'd rather see: [Digest] That is, if it works. Just trying to make it easier to digest the digest... sorry, couldn't resist. Cornily yours, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From martin at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 17 13:47:50 2001 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Mon Dec 17 13:47:50 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <200112171852.fBHIqBb3013816@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <0D08855D-F327-11D5-B092-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 07:47 pm, thomas800 at email.com wrote: > This contract was over invoiced to the tune of US$21.5M. U. S.Dollars. > This was done deliberately. The over-invoicing was a deal by my > committee to benefit from the project. > > We want this money to be transferred to the overseas Accounts for us, > before the present Government start Auditing all Federal Government > owned Parastatals accounts. Nice - "come join in the corruption of our government" > Overseas Account which we expect you to provide for us. ooh, sorry, we're *expected* to comply. _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From jackhand at hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:07:22 2001 From: jackhand at hotmail.com (Jack Hand) Date: Mon Dec 17 14:07:22 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL Message-ID: Guys, This is a scam. It is from Nigeria. It has been going on for several years. People responding have lost considerable sums of money. One American who got caught up in it went over to Nigeria to try to get his money back. He was murdered. Do not respond. You will lose money. You may lose your life. I have received several letters and e-mails, all along this line. I throw them in the trash. It may say that it is coming from South Africa. However, you can be assured that it originated in Nigeria. Jack _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From emeyer at lclark.edu Mon Dec 17 14:11:45 2001 From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer) Date: Mon Dec 17 14:11:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <0D08855D-F327-11D5-B092-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> References: <0D08855D-F327-11D5-B092-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: Martin wrote: >Nice - "come join in the corruption of our government" But the important thing is that they're using email, "the only secured and confidential medium available." So I'll probably invest, right after I get my windfall from the over-invoicing activities of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). Erika -- From jackhand at hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:19:31 2001 From: jackhand at hotmail.com (Jack Hand) Date: Mon Dec 17 14:19:31 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL Message-ID: Note, that they want: 1.Your company's name,address,telephone and fax numbers. 2.Your bank name,address,account and routing numbers If you give them these, they will clean out your bank account. It has happened to other, smarter people. Jack >From: "thomas800 at email.com" > >From:Dr.Thomas Mbeki >Tel/Fax#:882-164650382 >South Africa > >Attn:President/Ceo. > >STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL >RE: TRANSFER OF US$21.5 MILLION (TWENTY ONE MILLION, >FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS ONLY). > >I know this email will reach you as a surprise, butneed not to worry as we >are using the only secured and confidential medium available to seek for >foreign assistance/partnership in a business transaction which is of mutual >benefit. >I am a member of the Government of South African Contract Award and >Monitoring Committee in the Deparment of Mineral and energy(DME)Sometime >ago,a contract was awarded to a foreign firm in DME by my Committee. This >contract was over invoiced to the tune of US$21.5M. U. S.Dollars. This was >done deliberately. The over-invoicing was a deal by my committee to benefit >from the project. We now want to transfer this money which is in a suspense >Account with DME into any Overseas Account which we expect you to provide >for us. >SHARE: - >For providing the account where we shall remit the money into, you will be >entitled to 30% of the money,60% will be for me andmy partners while 10% >has been mapped out from the total sum to cover any expenses that may be >incurred by us during the course of this transfer,both locally and >international expenses. It may interest you to know that a similar >transaction was carried out with one MR. PATRICE MILLER, President of Crane >International Trading Corp. of 153 East 57th St., 28th floor, NY10022, >TEL:(212)-308-7788 AND TELEX: 6731689. The deal was >concluded and all covering documents were forwarded to MR. MILLER to >authenticate the claim. Once the funds were transferred, MR. MILLER >presented his Bank with all the legal documents and remitted the whole >funds to another Bank Account and disappeared completely.My colleagues were >shattered, as such opportunities do not come all the time.In order for us >to commence the transaction i would require the following: - >1.Your company's name,address,telephone and fax >numbers. >2.Your bank name,address,account and routing numbers >The above information would be use to make formal applications as a matter >of procedure for the release of the money and onward transfer to your >account. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dmah at shaw.ca Mon Dec 17 14:38:13 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Mon Dec 17 14:38:13 2001 Subject: [thesite] Original Tip Harvester Display In-Reply-To: from "Warden, Matt" at Dec 17, 2001 02:33:06 PM Message-ID: <200112172038.NAA02560@alice.monkeyland.ca> That worked. I changed it. Thanks, Dean Warden, Matt writes: > Personally, if it works, I'd rather see: > > [Digest] From emeyer at lclark.edu Mon Dec 17 15:14:45 2001 From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer) Date: Mon Dec 17 15:14:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > It has happened to other, smarter people. Jack While your warning is appropriate, I take issue with the above statement (the "smarter" part...) This scheme (and others like it) plays on people's greed & gullibility. It's hard for me to think of that as "smart." But I guess "smart" is a subjective word... btw, Bill Gates will give $1 to charity for every Nigerian business scheme email you transfer to the trash. hth, Erika -- From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Dec 17 15:18:54 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Dec 17 15:18:54 2001 Subject: [thesite] OT was: URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL References: Message-ID: <3C1E60AF.1070501@starkmedia.com> Can we take the discussion of the ins and outs of spam pych offlist or to thechat please? .djc. Erika Meyer wrote: >> It has happened to other, smarter people. Jack > > > While your warning is appropriate, I take issue with the above statement > (the "smarter" part...) > > This scheme (and others like it) plays on people's greed & gullibility. > It's hard for me to think of that as "smart." But I guess "smart" is a > subjective word... > > btw, Bill Gates will give $1 to charity for every Nigerian business > scheme email you transfer to the trash. > > hth, > > Erika From gnarly at punkass.com Tue Dec 18 08:09:37 2001 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson) Date: Tue Dec 18 08:09:37 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? Message-ID: <029101c187ce$ba0a1440$0100a8c0@Comp2> Hi, I went to the tip harvester, and searched for "netscape background". Up came the results, so I clicked on the first of them: background_image_bug Author: darwin48; 10-DEC-01 And was taken to: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/ /d/3875 which results in a nice big error: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: #url.d# Error near line 42, column 20. Error resolving parameter URL.D The specified URL parameter cannot be found. This problem is very likely due to the fact that you have misspelled the parameter name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#url.d#), occupying document position (42:19) to (42:25) in the template file /home/evolt/leo_html/harvest/dsp_harvest_detail.cfm. Date/Time: Tue Dec 18 08:07:00 2001 Browser: Mozilla/4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) Remote Address: 62.252.224.7 HTTP Referrer: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/index.html?userid=-1&key words=netscape+background&option=all&tid=-1&maxrows=10 Me, I reckon its that space in the URL, but I'm no expert on these things... Hope that lot is of some use to you, Cheers, Olly. From dmah at shaw.ca Tue Dec 18 08:16:10 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Dec 18 08:16:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? In-Reply-To: <029101c187ce$ba0a1440$0100a8c0@Comp2> from "Olly Hodgson" at Dec 18, 2001 02:17:28 PM Message-ID: <200112181417.HAA01138@alice.monkeyland.ca> I cannot reproduce this error. Can you try again and let me know if it is still happening? I did notice some strangeness in the simple search that I'll be looking at later today. Thanks, Dean Olly Hodgson writes: > I went to the tip harvester, and searched for "netscape > background". Up came the results, so I clicked on the first of them: From michele at wordpro.on.ca Tue Dec 18 08:26:55 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Tue Dec 18 08:26:55 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? References: <200112181417.HAA01138@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <002401c187d0$45b63180$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hey Dean.. Yeah, it's the space that's throwing an error .. happens in NS4.7 .. it doesn't convert the space to %20 like other browsers do. It works fine in IE5.5 and NS6.2, but definitely throws an error in NS4.7. Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" | I cannot reproduce this error. Can you try again and let me know if | it is still happening? | | I did notice some strangeness in the simple search that I'll be | looking at later today. | | Thanks, | Dean | | | Olly Hodgson writes: | | > I went to the tip harvester, and searched for "netscape | > background". Up came the results, so I clicked on the first of them: | | _______________________________________________ | For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: | http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite | From gnarly at punkass.com Tue Dec 18 08:31:02 2001 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson) Date: Tue Dec 18 08:31:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? References: <200112181417.HAA01138@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <02b101c187d1$a63c5150$0100a8c0@Comp2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" Subject: Re: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? > I cannot reproduce this error. Can you try again and let me know if > it is still happening? Its still happening. The search results are coming up as (for example): http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/ /d/3879 I experimented and found that removing the "/c/ ", leaving http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/d/3879 ..worked fine. I get the same problem with the advanced search. I'm using Netscape 4.79 on Win2K if it makes any odds. Cheers, Olly. From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 09:04:34 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:04:34 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? In-Reply-To: <002401c187d0$45b63180$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <200112181504.fBIF4Xb3017299@leo.evolt.org> > From: "Michele Foster" > > Yeah, it's the space that's throwing an error .. happens in NS4.7 .. > it doesn't convert the space to %20 like other browsers do. It works > fine in IE5.5 and NS6.2, but definitely throws an error in NS4.7. well, since spaces aren't valid in URLs (right?), and no browser is obligated to convert it to %20, and i doubt dean coded it in, it's probably just a code gaffe... From dmah at shaw.ca Tue Dec 18 09:34:46 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:34:46 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? In-Reply-To: <200112181504.fBIF4Xb3017299@leo.evolt.org> from "aardvark" at Dec 18, 2001 10:05:17 AM Message-ID: <200112181535.IAA01492@alice.monkeyland.ca> Thanks for trying to cover my ass on this one but I did code it that way. I've been spoiled by Mozilla. I haven't taken the time to try to understand how things get passed through the URL in ColdFusion so I tried to fake it out. To fix it, I'm still faking it out but instead of a space, I'm using an underscore. Hopefully, that is valid in URLs. Dean aardvark writes: > > From: "Michele Foster" > > > > Yeah, it's the space that's throwing an error .. happens in NS4.7 .. > > it doesn't convert the space to %20 like other browsers do. It works > > fine in IE5.5 and NS6.2, but definitely throws an error in NS4.7. > > well, since spaces aren't valid in URLs (right?), and no browser is > obligated to convert it to %20, and i doubt dean coded it in, it's > probably just a code gaffe... From dmah at shaw.ca Tue Dec 18 09:36:14 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:36:14 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? In-Reply-To: <02b101c187d1$a63c5150$0100a8c0@Comp2> from "Olly Hodgson" at Dec 18, 2001 02:38:20 PM Message-ID: <200112181537.IAA01502@alice.monkeyland.ca> Thanks Olly, At home I only use Mozilla so I didn't see the error. I think that I've got it fixed now. At the very least it works in NN4.77 on Linux. Let me know if you still see the problem. Dean Olly Hodgson writes: > > I cannot reproduce this error. Can you try again and let me know if > > it is still happening? > > Its still happening. > > The search results are coming up as (for example): > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/ /d/3879 > > I experimented and found that removing the "/c/ ", leaving > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/d/3879 > ..worked fine. > > I get the same problem with the advanced search. I'm using Netscape 4.79 on > Win2K if it makes any odds. From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 09:40:08 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:40:08 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? In-Reply-To: <200112181535.IAA01492@alice.monkeyland.ca> References: <200112181504.fBIF4Xb3017299@leo.evolt.org> from "aardvark" at Dec 18, 2001 10:05:17 AM Message-ID: <200112181540.fBIFe7b3019349@leo.evolt.org> > From: Dean Mah > > Thanks for trying to cover my ass on this one but I did code it that > way. I've been spoiled by Mozilla. I haven't taken the time to try > to understand how things get passed through the URL in ColdFusion so I > tried to fake it out. ugh... you kill me... too funny... > To fix it, I'm still faking it out but instead of a space, I'm using > an underscore. Hopefully, that is valid in URLs. that is valid... From webguru at vsnl.net Tue Dec 18 09:48:11 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:48:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> I've logged into admin.evolt.org When I use the dropdown on the top right, choose something like "Email" and click, I'm redirected to the w.e.o home page. This is what appears in my address bar: http://www.evolt.org/category/index.html?tid=%2Femail%2F&submit=Go I'm using IE6 on Win2K Pro. This problem has only surfaced in the last couple of days. It worked fine the last time I was there. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Dec 18 09:51:39 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Tue Dec 18 09:51:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] UEUE v0.4 - Circumventing the cookie scr1ptk1dd1es In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In a nutshell the solution to the cookie-hijacking is to establish a group > of trusted URL's within the UEUE authentication architecture. If you are > coming from an untrusted URL to a trusted URL, you will be re-prompted for > your password. UEUE cookies will be correctly deleted and recreated as > necessary before they get to the Javascript haxors.. This is the best way, > short of Digital certs. and bio-scanners, to prove your identity IMHO > using browser-based technology. Maybe it's just me being a bit dense but I don't see how you are going to destroy the cookies when moving from a trusted to an untrusted URL. Can you clarify how you will know whether to destroy the cookie *before* the user leaves a trusted page? What happens if they have multiple browser windows open? Please explain, I'm confused... Simon From gnarly at punkass.com Tue Dec 18 10:17:01 2001 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson) Date: Tue Dec 18 10:17:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? References: <200112181537.IAA01502@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <03ca01c187e0$7c204c00$0100a8c0@Comp2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" Subject: Re: [thesite] Tip Harvester Bug? > At home I only use Mozilla so I didn't see the error. I think that > I've got it fixed now. At the very least it works in NN4.77 on Linux. > Let me know if you still see the problem. Sorted. It works now :-) Olly. From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 18 14:53:17 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 18 14:53:17 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <3C1FAC2F.30901@starkmedia.com> can anyone else reproduce this? nothing has changed on that site in a long time.. the alternative is to go to admin.evolt.org/email directly Madhu Menon wrote: > I've logged into admin.evolt.org > > When I use the dropdown on the top right, choose something like "Email" > and click, I'm redirected to the w.e.o home page. > > This is what appears in my address bar: > http://www.evolt.org/category/index.html?tid=%2Femail%2F&submit=Go > > I'm using IE6 on Win2K Pro. > > This problem has only surfaced in the last couple of days. It worked > fine the last time I was there. > > Regards, From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 18 14:56:42 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 18 14:56:42 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [***list] m.e.o + dreamweaver question References: <005901c18676$70f96520$0100a8c0@olly> <3C1E0B63.2020407@members.evolt.org> <00a001c1870f$3af553a0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C1FACFC.2050405@starkmedia.com> thanks for the reminder, done :) .djc. Michele Foster wrote: > Dan, > > Please do add this info to meo FAQ pages .... > > See this message from last week .. > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-December/1564787.html > > Though it looks like what I wrote isn't accurate .. based on this email. > (No wonder I couldn't figure it out .. ;) > > > Mich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > > | Cool, thanks for the heads up! I'll be sure to file this one away to add > | to the m.e.o FAQ > | > | And you should put the .htaccess file in whichever directory you want it > | to affect. If you have a /secret directory the best place would be to > | put it in /home/user/public_html/secret > | > | Shout if you have any other questions :) > | > | .djc. > | > | Olly Hodgson wrote: > | > | nally got around to testing this, and: > | > > | > > | > > | > results in the good 'ol [an error occurred while processing this > directive] > | > :-/ OTOH, > | > > | > > | > > | > does work. Am I missing something obvious? Should I just not worry about > it > | > and stick /home/gnarly/ in front of everything? > | > > | > Secondly, if I was to put a .htacess file on the server, should it go in > | > public_html? > > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Tue Dec 18 14:57:14 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Tue Dec 18 14:57:14 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <3C1FAC2F.30901@starkmedia.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> I can...maybe it has something to do with us new admins again? :) --Ben On 02:50 PM 12/18/2001, Daniel J. Cody said to me: >can anyone else reproduce this? nothing has changed on that site in a long >time.. > >the alternative is to go to admin.evolt.org/email directly > >Madhu Menon wrote: > >>I've logged into admin.evolt.org >>When I use the dropdown on the top right, choose something like "Email" >>and click, I'm redirected to the w.e.o home page. >>This is what appears in my address bar: >>http://www.evolt.org/category/index.html?tid=%2Femail%2F&submit=Go >>I'm using IE6 on Win2K Pro. >>This problem has only surfaced in the last couple of days. It worked fine >>the last time I was there. >>Regards, > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive >http://www.imaginuity.com/ >----------------------------------------------------------------- >| http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ | http://www.evolt.org/ | >----------------------------------------------------------------- From evolt at spinhead.com Tue Dec 18 15:05:28 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:05:28 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> Message-ID: <008601c18807$bc800660$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> If I select a link and wait, it goes where it should. If I click the 'Go' button, I go to w.e.o. So, how long DOES the hazing last? joel [no I've never crossed the equator but I'm still not crawling thru THAT] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Dyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] a.e.o bug > I can...maybe it has something to do with us new admins again? :) > > --Ben > > On 02:50 PM 12/18/2001, Daniel J. Cody said to me: > >can anyone else reproduce this? nothing has changed on that site in a long > >time.. > > > >the alternative is to go to admin.evolt.org/email directly > > > >Madhu Menon wrote: > > > >>I've logged into admin.evolt.org > >>When I use the dropdown on the top right, choose something like "Email" > >>and click, I'm redirected to the w.e.o home page. > >>This is what appears in my address bar: > >>http://www.evolt.org/category/index.html?tid=%2Femail%2F&submit=Go > >>I'm using IE6 on Win2K Pro. > >>This problem has only surfaced in the last couple of days. It worked fine > >>the last time I was there. > >>Regards, > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive > >http://www.imaginuity.com/ > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >| http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ | http://www.evolt.org/ | > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Tue Dec 18 15:09:57 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:09:57 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <008601c18807$bc800660$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011218150814.02afc688@mail.imaginuity.com> On 03:05 PM 12/18/2001, spinhead said to me: >If I select a link and wait, it goes where it should. If I click the 'Go' >button, I go to w.e.o. Ah, yes. You are correct. I clicked the button. There's your problem...Javascript redirect onChange that works successfully, but the form post goes to . --Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ | http://www.evolt.org/ | ----------------------------------------------------------------- From webguru at vsnl.net Tue Dec 18 15:11:15 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:11:15 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <008601c18807$bc800660$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> At 02:35 AM 12/19/2001, spinhead typed these words: >If I select a link and wait, it goes where it should. If I click the 'Go' >button, I go to w.e.o. What's the point of having a "Go" button if the damn thing automatically changes anyway? Hmmm... :D >So, how long DOES the hazing last? I think it stops after you answer at least 25 emails and approve at least 10 articles ;) Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 18 15:16:56 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:16:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <3C1FB1BA.8080406@starkmedia.com> Madhu Menon wrote: > At 02:35 AM 12/19/2001, spinhead typed these words: > >> If I select a link and wait, it goes where it should. If I click the 'Go' >> button, I go to w.e.o. > > > What's the point of having a "Go" button if the damn thing automatically > changes anyway? Hmmm... :D my solution: axe the 'Go' button. javascript is needed to automatically use that drop box now :) >> So, how long DOES the hazing last? > > I think it stops after you answer at least 25 emails and approve at > least 10 articles ;) approve?? muhahaha.. *write* is more like it ;) .djc. From webguru at vsnl.net Tue Dec 18 15:24:02 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:24:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <3C1FB1BA.8080406@starkmedia.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> At 02:44 AM 12/19/2001, Daniel J. Cody typed these words: >my solution: axe the 'Go' button. javascript is needed to automatically >use that drop box now :) -1 The dropdown control was never meant to be used that way. Ditch the JS and go with the "Go" button. M From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Tue Dec 18 15:25:47 2001 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:25:47 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <3C1FB1BA.8080406@starkmedia.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011218152306.02ac2fd0@mail.imaginuity.com> On 03:14 PM 12/18/2001, Daniel J. Cody said to me: >>>So, how long DOES the hazing last? >>I think it stops after you answer at least 25 emails and approve at least >>10 articles ;) > >approve?? muhahaha.. *write* is more like it ;) Ack! =:0 (Still trying to think of good topic for 2nd...) So...wait...this means you're still hazing a lot of admins. :) --Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ | http://www.evolt.org/ | ----------------------------------------------------------------- From evolt at spinhead.com Tue Dec 18 15:29:19 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:29:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <00cb01c1880a$db939fa0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> > Ditch the JS and > go with the "Go" button. > > M > +1 When I select the wrong choice I don't want to have to come back from another page to fix it. joel From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Dec 18 15:32:01 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 18 15:32:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> <00cb01c1880a$db939fa0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <3C1FB543.9080300@starkmedia.com> both points are valid, but theres no functionality build into a.e.o to handle that(it was cut&paste from w.e.o) at this time, and that cold fusion version of a.e.o is on the way out at any rate not trying to offend or anything, this is just bottomfeeding on my list of things to do list spinhead wrote: >>Ditch the JS and >>go with the "Go" button. >> >>M >> >> > > +1 > > When I select the wrong choice I don't want to have to come back from > another page to fix it. From evolt at spinhead.com Tue Dec 18 17:33:01 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Tue Dec 18 17:33:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011218211626.01de1430@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.0.20011218145606.02afb898@mail.imaginuity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219024010.03569c40@203.197.12.4> <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> <00cb01c1880a$db939fa0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> <3C1FB543.9080300@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1881c$660fae10$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> Dan'l wrote > not trying to offend or anything, this is just bottomfeeding on my list > of things to do list And since it's not a public site, it's not a big deal to me. joel From mwarden at mattwarden.com Tue Dec 18 17:41:45 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Tue Dec 18 17:41:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: On Dec 19, Madhu Menon had something to say about Re: [thesite] a.e.o bug >At 02:44 AM 12/19/2001, Daniel J. Cody typed these words: >>my solution: axe the 'Go' button. javascript is needed to automatically >>use that drop box now :) > >-1 > >The dropdown control was never meant to be used that way. Ditch the JS and >go with the "Go" button. *shrug* So, it wasn't meant to be used that way. So what? I don't see a problem with using it anyway we want. It's not like this is a public site. We know exactly who our audience is (like 25 people). Clicking the go button is an extra pain in the arse. Personally, I like the javascript and think we should axe the delay. But, it really doesn't matter. Either way is ok with me. I just don't see your point and it hit me as just one of those things one is 'supposed' to say. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From webguru at vsnl.net Tue Dec 18 22:05:44 2001 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue Dec 18 22:05:44 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219025155.01db4120@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219092936.0237c488@203.197.12.4> Matt, At 05:12 AM 12/19/2001, Warden, Matt typed these words: >way, it's used that way all over the place and users are used to >it... maybe even expect it> > >Personally, I like the javascript and think we should axe the delay. But, >it really doesn't matter. Either way is ok with me. I just don't see your >point and it hit me as just one of those things one is 'supposed' to say. I'm not saying it because I'm "supposed" to say it. There are very good reasons for not making a dropdown behave this way. Pop-up ads are used all over the place too. Doesn't make them any more endearing. However, I'm not going to go into any more detail because it only affect 25 users. So let the JS stay. Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From mwarden at mattwarden.com Wed Dec 19 18:25:26 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Wed Dec 19 18:25:26 2001 Subject: [thesite] a.e.o bug In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219092936.0237c488@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: On Dec 19, Madhu Menon had something to say about Re: [thesite] a.e.o bug >Matt, > >At 05:12 AM 12/19/2001, Warden, Matt typed these words: >>>way, it's used that way all over the place and users are used to >>it... maybe even expect it> >> >>Personally, I like the javascript and think we should axe the delay. But, >>it really doesn't matter. Either way is ok with me. I just don't see your >>point and it hit me as just one of those things one is 'supposed' to say. > >I'm not saying it because I'm "supposed" to say it. There are very good >reasons for not making a dropdown behave this way. >Pop-up ads are used all over the place too. Doesn't make them any more >endearing. > >However, I'm not going to go into any more detail because it only affect 25 >users. So let the JS stay. well, i'd be interested in hearing your argument. maybe move this to thelist? i'll be looking out. thanks, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mail at richardinfo.com Thu Dec 20 02:34:47 2001 From: mail at richardinfo.com (Richard Bennett) Date: Thu Dec 20 02:34:47 2001 Subject: [thesite] tip harvester processing entities. Message-ID: <02d201c18930$ef7e1e60$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> I noticed one tip I had submitted looks a little ridiculous, as the < entity that it was about, is being processed before display, and shows as "<" . http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/Week-of-Mon-20011105.h tml/d/3776 Cheers, Richard. From dmah at shaw.ca Thu Dec 20 09:34:18 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu Dec 20 09:34:18 2001 Subject: [thesite] tip harvester processing entities. In-Reply-To: <02d201c18930$ef7e1e60$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> from "Richard Bennett" at Dec 20, 2001 09:32:59 AM Message-ID: <200112201535.IAA01218@alice.monkeyland.ca> Fixed. Dean Richard Bennett writes: > I noticed one tip I had submitted looks a little ridiculous, as the < > entity that it was about, is being processed before display, and shows as > "<" . > > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/Week-of-Mon-20011105.html/d/3776 From richard.bennett at skynet.be Thu Dec 20 10:15:08 2001 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Thu Dec 20 10:15:08 2001 Subject: [thesite] tip harvester processing entities. References: <200112201535.IAA01218@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <037101c18971$44261220$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> That's nice - makes a lot more sense like that :o) Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [thesite] tip harvester processing entities. > Fixed. > > Dean > > > Richard Bennett writes: > > > I noticed one tip I had submitted looks a little ridiculous, as the < > > entity that it was about, is being processed before display, and shows as > > "<" . > > > > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/Week-of-Mon-20011105.h tml/d/3776 > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From lists at mantruc.com Thu Dec 20 15:36:21 2001 From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco (mantruc)) Date: Thu Dec 20 15:36:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) References: <022f01c186d0$491c5e40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C20A4EB.FE5C2AC0@mantruc.com> here you go, let me know your thoughts legend: tips to page relation a) one to many b) all i one Michele Foster wrote: > Hey folks, > > Does anyone want to create an Icon or symbol that can be used on this page: > > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest > > If you notice there are two versions of the tip harvester displayed for each > week. One in the new format (archived list), one in the old format > ([digest] - contains the entire week on one page). > > Any samples that will help with intuitiveness, usability and making the page > look less cluttered .... ?? > > Thanks, > > Mich/Dean > > (Sent under a different header to grab the attention of our graphics gurus > on this list .. original thread here: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-December/1564803.html) it kind of worked (not that i'm a guru though) -- Javier Velasco Information Architect Chile http://mantruc.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tip_icons.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Dec 20 15:39:20 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Dec 20 15:39:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) References: <022f01c186d0$491c5e40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> <3C20A4EB.FE5C2AC0@mantruc.com> Message-ID: <000a01c1899f$228c25e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Hey Javi, These are cute .. a bit high though. But they do depict the two versions well .. at least I think they do. What do others think? Anyone have any other ideas/suggestions? Mich (p.s. Looks like list attachments have been turned off for this list, I approved this one manually .. no idea what made me go look to see if there was anything in the queue ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "javier velasco (mantruc)" | here you go, let me know your thoughts | | legend: tips to page relation | | a) one to many | b) all i one | | | Michele Foster wrote: | | > Hey folks, | > | > Does anyone want to create an Icon or symbol that can be used on this page: | > | > http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest | > | > If you notice there are two versions of the tip harvester displayed for each | > week. One in the new format (archived list), one in the old format | > ([digest] - contains the entire week on one page). | > | > Any samples that will help with intuitiveness, usability and making the page | > look less cluttered .... ?? | > From gnarly at punkass.com Thu Dec 20 16:23:04 2001 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson) Date: Thu Dec 20 16:23:04 2001 Subject: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) References: <022f01c186d0$491c5e40$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> <3C20A4EB.FE5C2AC0@mantruc.com> <000a01c1899f$228c25e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <00b101c189a5$7a03c0c0$0100a8c0@olly> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Foster" Subject: Re: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) > Hey Javi, > > These are cute .. a bit high though. But they do depict the two versions > well .. at least I think they do. > > What do others think? Anyone have any other ideas/suggestions? Ok, I've been inspired to have a go at it now. Here's my take in Javier's ideas: http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/tip_icons/tip1.gif http://members.evolt.org/gnarly/evolt_bits/tip_icons/tip2.gif They're much smaller (17x16px) and bright yellow at the moment, but I'm open to suggestions on all aspects of them. Olly. From dmah at shaw.ca Thu Dec 20 16:48:20 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu Dec 20 16:48:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Graphics Guru - Icon Making Fun ;) In-Reply-To: <3C20A4EB.FE5C2AC0@mantruc.com> from "javier velasco (mantruc)" at Dec 19, 2001 11:32:11 AM Message-ID: <200112202249.PAA02828@alice.monkeyland.ca> Actually, I had envisioned that we would keep the text link of the date for the regular tip harvest and come up with an icon for only the digest version. So I'd focus on coming up with an icon that represents digest or flat or week-at-a-glance. Dean "javier velasco (mantruc)" writes: > here you go, let me know your thoughts > > legend: tips to page relation > > a) one to many > b) all i one From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Dec 21 09:46:39 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Dec 21 09:46:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] Fw: [***list] IE 5.1 for Mac OS 8/9 released Message-ID: <009801c18a36$f51d74e0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> I added the ".hqx" version to the browser archive. Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Spruck" | Internet Explorer 5.1 for Mac OS 8.1 to 9.2 can be found at | http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/ie/ie51.asp. I haven't used it yet, | so I have no idea what got fixed or broken since the 5.0 release. From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Dec 26 13:25:33 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 26 13:25:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] quick downtime.. Message-ID: splurged on a 512Mb stick of pc133 ram for the oracle box today, dropping it in now(and upgrading the kernel while i'm rebooting). should be about 5 minutes of downtime. previously near 3 months without a prob: [root at oreo linux]# uptime 1:30pm up 79 days, 51 min, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.58, 0.39 i'll send the OK when its back. for the record we'll but up to an even 1GB with this new chip.. .djc. From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Dec 26 13:37:02 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Dec 26 13:37:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Theforum] quick downtime.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: back, better, faster. :) On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > splurged on a 512Mb stick of pc133 ram for the oracle box today, dropping > it in now(and upgrading the kernel while i'm rebooting). should be about 5 > minutes of downtime. previously near 3 months without a prob: > > [root at oreo linux]# uptime > 1:30pm up 79 days, 51 min, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.58, 0.39 > > i'll send the OK when its back. for the record we'll but up to an even 1GB > with this new chip.. > > .djc. > > > _______________________________________________ > theforum > It's hard to wallow on your own > From michele at wordpro.on.ca Wed Dec 26 23:12:50 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Wed Dec 26 23:12:50 2001 Subject: [thesite] Fw: [***list] Re Welcome To "thelist"! Message-ID: <007e01c18e95$812bfee0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Not too sure why this person forwarded a copy of this message to thelist .. but since he/she did .. let's make a few changes .. since it appears to me to be rather "old". Mich | | >Welcome to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list! Thanks for | >joining the evolt.org mailing lists. Send a message to the list at | >thelist at lists.evolt.org - make sure your messages are formatted in | >*plain text*!! HTML formatted messages, attachments in messages, or | >any other wacky formatting will get held for approval. Thanks! | > | >Phase one of this project is our mailing list where you can ask | >questions of and engage in friendly disagreements with fellow Web | >workers about anything Web related. This could be anything from how to | >set up a Web server to making an array in JavaScript and basically | >whatever else is keeping you awake at night. "Phase one of this project ..." Not sure this is required anymore .. I think we've graduated to Phase 4? ;) | > | >Be sure to check out http://lists.evolt.org for all the latest info. | > | >To post to this list, send your email to: | > | > thelist at lists.evolt.org | > | >General information about the mailing list is at: | > | > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist | > | >If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to | >or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your | >subscription page at: | > | > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/options/thelist/jdcrz at etang.com Does this work with the email address appended like that? | > | >You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: | > | > thelist-request at lists.evolt.org | > | >with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the | >quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. Really? This I definitely didn't know .. Dan ? | >You must know your password to change your options (including changing | >the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: | > | > ***** [Mich blocked out] | > | >If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly | >reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list | >passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. This has been turned off for thelist, thesite and theforum as well .. I'm not too sure about thechat. This should be deleted?? Or is this a "trigger" option, one which I "personally" have turned off? There | >is also a button on your options page that will email your current | >password to you. Ummm.. not a "button" .. but one can fill out their email address on the options page and their password will be sent to them. | > | >You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of the | >Web page noted above. | > hmm.. which is what this says .. I've no clue what a "button" is above then. ;) Mich From djc at starkmedia.com Thu Dec 27 10:43:25 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Dec 27 10:43:25 2001 Subject: [thesite] Fw: [***list] Re Welcome To "thalist"! References: <007e01c18e95$812bfee0$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Message-ID: <3C2B4F2B.6030006@starkmedia.com> Michele Foster wrote: > Not too sure why this person forwarded a copy of this message to thelist .. > but since he/she did .. let's make a few changes .. since it appears to me > to be rather "old". oy.. totally my fault for letting this slip, thanks for bringing it up :) > | >If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > | >or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > | >subscription page at: > | > > | > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/options/thelist/jdcrz at etang.com > > > Does this work with the email address appended like that? yup.. > | > > | >You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > | > > | > thelist-request at lists.evolt.org > | > > | >with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > | >quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > > Really? This I definitely didn't know .. Dan ? yup > | >You must know your password to change your options (including changing > | >the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > | > > | > ***** [Mich blocked out] > | > > | >If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly > | >reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list > | >passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. > > This has been turned off for thelist, thesite and theforum as well .. I'm > not too sure about thechat. This should be deleted?? Or is this a > "trigger" option, one which I "personally" have turned off? no, i should delete that since i dont send them out > There > | >is also a button on your options page that will email your current > | >password to you. > > Ummm.. not a "button" .. but one can fill out their email address on the > options page and their password will be sent to them. > > | > > | >You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of the > | >Web page noted above. > | > > > hmm.. which is what this says .. I've no clue what a "button" is above then. > ;) ok, thanks again.. i'll make some changes and update what gets sent out :) .djc. From djc at members.evolt.org Thu Dec 27 11:17:16 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Dec 27 11:17:16 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) Message-ID: rewrote the intro email people get.. hows this look? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:18:22 -0600 (CST) From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org To: djc at members.evolt.org Subject: Welcome To "thelist"! Welcome to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list! Thanks for joining thelist, evolt.org's first and finest mailing list! To send a message to thelist, address it to: thelist at lists.evolt.org Make sure your messages are formatted in *plain text*!! HTML formatted messages, attachments in messages, or any other wacky formatting will get held for approval. Thanks! thelist is evolt.org's primary discussion list where you can ask questions of and engage in friendly disagreements with fellow Web workers about anything Web related. From setting up a Web server to creating an array in JavaScript everything and everything Web related is fair game. thelist is moderated by it's members, and although traffic can be heavy at times, you'll see that discussions are for the most part warm and friendly and create a sense of community. Feel free to lurk a while and catch the vibe, and jump in whenever you're ready! To post to this list, send your email to: thelist at lists.evolt.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/options/thelist/djc at members.evolt.org You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: thelist-request at lists.evolt.org with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of the Web page noted above. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Dec 27 11:20:43 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Dec 27 11:20:43 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00a101c18efb$32e6b340$95aa2642@aci.on.ca> Sounds great .. except I think you meant to delete the last two paragraphs ? Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" | If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly | reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list | passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There | is also a button on your options page that will email your current | password to you. | | You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of the | Web page noted above. From evolt at spinhead.com Thu Dec 27 11:25:20 2001 From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead) Date: Thu Dec 27 11:25:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) References: Message-ID: <012101c18efb$81d1a460$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> Fewer exclamation marks. Other suggestions inline joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) > rewrote the intro email people get.. hows this look? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:18:22 -0600 (CST) > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > To: djc at members.evolt.org > Subject: Welcome To "thelist"! > > Welcome to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list! Thanks for > joining thelist, evolt.org's first and finest mailing list! To send a > message to thelist, address it to: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Make sure your messages are formatted in *plain text*!! HTML formatted > messages, attachments in messages, or any other wacky formatting will > get held for approval. Thanks! > > thelist is evolt.org's primary discussion list where you can ask > questions [of [delete]] and engage in friendly disagreements with fellow Web > workers about anything Web related. From setting up a Web server to > creating an array in JavaScript [everything [s/b 'anything' ?]] and everything Web related > is fair game. thelist is moderated by it[' [del]]s members, and although > traffic can be heavy at times, you'll see that discussions are for the > most part warm and friendly and create a sense of community. Feel free > to lurk a while and catch the vibe, and jump in whenever you're ready! > > > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > thelist at lists.evolt.org > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/options/thelist/djc at members.evolt.org > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > thelist-request at lists.evolt.org > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will [get back [be sent, receive]] a message with instructions. > > You must know your password to change your options (including changing > the password[, [del]] itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > > If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly > reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list > passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There > is also a button on your options page that will email your current > password to you.[ [delete space, should be one paragraph]] > > You may also have your password mailed to you automatically [off of [from]] the > Web page noted above. > > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From djc at starkmedia.com Thu Dec 27 11:49:45 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Dec 27 11:49:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) References: <012101c18efb$81d1a460$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG> Message-ID: <3C2B5EB7.6080105@starkmedia.com> good suggestions! updated the file!! ;) spinhead wrote: > Fewer exclamation marks. Other suggestions inline > > joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 9:17 AM > Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) > > > >>rewrote the intro email people get.. hows this look? >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:18:22 -0600 (CST) >>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org >>To: djc at members.evolt.org >>Subject: Welcome To "thelist"! >> >>Welcome to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list! Thanks for >>joining thelist, evolt.org's first and finest mailing list! To send a >>message to thelist, address it to: thelist at lists.evolt.org >> >>Make sure your messages are formatted in *plain text*!! HTML formatted >>messages, attachments in messages, or any other wacky formatting will >>get held for approval. Thanks! >> >>thelist is evolt.org's primary discussion list where you can ask >>questions [of [delete]] and engage in friendly disagreements with fellow >> > Web > >>workers about anything Web related. From setting up a Web server to >>creating an array in JavaScript [everything [s/b 'anything' ?]] and >> > everything Web related > >>is fair game. thelist is moderated by it[' [del]]s members, and although >>traffic can be heavy at times, you'll see that discussions are for the >>most part warm and friendly and create a sense of community. Feel free >>to lurk a while and catch the vibe, and jump in whenever you're ready! >> >> >> >>To post to this list, send your email to: >> >> thelist at lists.evolt.org >> >>General information about the mailing list is at: >> >> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist >> >>If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to >>or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your >>subscription page at: >> >> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/options/thelist/djc at members.evolt.org >> >>You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: >> >> thelist-request at lists.evolt.org >> >>with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the >>quotes), and you will [get back [be sent, receive]] a message with >> > instructions. > >>You must know your password to change your options (including changing >>the password[, [del]] itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: >> >> >>If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly >>reminder telling you what all your lists.evolt.org mailing list >>passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There >>is also a button on your options page that will email your current >>password to you.[ [delete space, should be one paragraph]] >> >>You may also have your password mailed to you automatically [off of >> > [from]] the > >>Web page noted above. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: >>http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From martin at members.evolt.org Thu Dec 27 14:10:31 2001 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Thu Dec 27 14:10:31 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <089EEC2D-FB06-11D5-8B0D-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> Looks good - much better than the current one. One tweak: the sentence I've quoted about what's on topic could give a broader outlook on thelist discussions, esp to give creative types more of a look in - something like: From setting up a Web server to creating an array in JavaScript, writing for online use, designing and usability for 5 year olds and making sure you get paid for your work, everything and everything Web related is fair game. Cheers Martin On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 05:17 pm, Daniel J. Cody wrote: > rewrote the intro email people get.. hows this look? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:18:22 -0600 (CST) > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > To: djc at members.evolt.org > Subject: Welcome To "thelist"! > [snip > From setting up a Web server to > creating an array in JavaScript everything and everything Web related > is fair game. [snip] _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From lists at mantruc.com Thu Dec 27 14:22:52 2001 From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco (mantruc)) Date: Thu Dec 27 14:22:52 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3C2B836C.A14CBEAD@mantruc.com> nice job, only 1 observation "Daniel J. Cody" wrote: > From setting up a Web server to > creating an array in JavaScript everything and everything Web related > is fair game. it might disencourage front end people... "from setting up webservers to obtaining safe color palettes, including code and expereince design" something wider like that, it's not a great example, but it's so hot here that my brain is melting -- Javier Velasco Information Architect Chile http://mantruc.com From lists at mantruc.com Thu Dec 27 14:35:56 2001 From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco (mantruc)) Date: Thu Dec 27 14:35:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) References: <3C2B836C.A14CBEAD@mantruc.com> Message-ID: <3C2B8685.62A3D2DA@mantruc.com> "javier velasco (mantruc)" wrote: > it might disencourage front end people... 'alienate' was the word i missed -- Javier Velasco Information Architect Chile http://mantruc.com From dmah at shaw.ca Fri Dec 28 15:20:25 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Fri Dec 28 15:20:25 2001 Subject: [thesite] New Oracle Box Message-ID: <200112282120.OAA06096@alice.monkeyland.ca> I took a look at the usual Oracle statistics: data buffer cache hit ratio = 94% shared pool hit ratio = 97% data dictionary hit ratio = 84% I'd increase the shared_pool_size to get the data dictionary hit ratio up higher. And maybe increasing db_block_buffers to get the data buffer cache hit ratio up a little higher, i.e., > 97%. It looks like there is a lot of free physical memory (~700MB) so increasing these parameters shouldn't cause the system any problem. There's no OS swapping going on so that's not a problem. We're sitting at 16MB of shared_pool_size now, so maybe bump it up another 8MB or 16MB. We're using 3200 db_block_buffers, so maybe increase that to 4800. You might also want to bump up the amount of sort area since there is so much physical memory to burn. Dean From r937 at interlog.com Fri Dec 28 16:28:54 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Dec 28 16:28:54 2001 Subject: [thesite] Welcome To "thelist"! (fwd) Message-ID: <01c18f0e$c23bd620$464c149a@rudy> > good suggestions! updated the file!! ;) what about putting this up on the site as an admin article assuming the site code checks priv level jeff, do you know what i'm talking about? articles that are only visible to people that have a userpriv >= 3 speaking of information architecture, i have had a strong guiding principle behind all my professional efforts for decades -- as a developer, project manager, data architect, and freelance html jockey -- and i'm thrilled that the new field of information architecture is finally giving "my" principle some much needed credibility this principle simply asserts that stuff should be easy to find for example, the copy that's used in the "welcome to thelist" email out in the open, where everybody can see it, with a "need to hide" policy instead of "need to know" mentality (please don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you were trying to hide anything, dan) our article structure, with our web-based edit and approval process, is the perfect vehicle to manage this information rudy From dmah at shaw.ca Sun Dec 30 11:40:21 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sun Dec 30 11:40:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] LONG to CLOB Message-ID: <200112301740.KAA00923@alice.monkeyland.ca> I've migrated the LONG 'body' field in the CONTENT table to a CLOB last night. I sumbitted a test article which seemed to work without problem. The article was inserted into the database without having to change the CF code. A few things happened during the conversion: 1) When doing an export, I ran into a problem with shared pool memory. I bounced the database and that resolved the problem. This is only a temporary solution. The memory on the test Oracle database needs to be tuned a little better. 2) When I first switched to the new table, teo started throwing errors. This was related to a faulty SQL query. The 'datemod' field was being compared to an empty string. The session.user.lastlogin variable was not being set. I restarted the CF server and that seemed to fix it. 3) The content table has three fields that have a NOT NULL constraint on them: 'rating', 'ratings', and 'replies'. The teo code did not supply default values for these fields and so the article submission failed. I removed these constraints and then submission worked. I don't know how the original table was created so I might have missed something when duplicating it. I'll be out of town for the next couple of days and am not sure if I will be able to check e-mail but everything should be working. If it does cause problems, the original table can be put back into place. It's been renamed CONTENT_ORIG. Dean From andyed at surfmind.com Mon Dec 31 10:35:20 2001 From: andyed at surfmind.com (Andy Edmonds) Date: Mon Dec 31 10:35:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Newbie Question In-Reply-To: <200112301740.KAA00923@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: Greetings, Trying to give "thesite" a whirl. I've converted the DB script to work with SQL Server and that seems to work. But, I haven't found the 404 handler in the code from sourceForge. Which file is it? Thanks, Andy http://surfmind.com From jeff at members.evolt.org Mon Dec 31 14:11:19 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Mon Dec 31 14:11:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] Newbie Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: andy, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Andy Edmonds > > I've converted the DB script to work with SQL Server > and that seems to work. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< did you do it by hand or use an automated conversion utility. if the latter, then you still have more work to do. you'll need to do things like define the pk columns as auto-number, a departure from the way the oracle database is setup with a sequence number that is shared amongst all tables. also, any INSERT queries that you find in the code will need to have the reference to the pk column removed. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > But, I haven't found the 404 handler in the code from > sourceForge. Which file is it? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< should be alphaboxcontroller.cfm, but i'm not sure if it ships with the code from sourceforge. let me know if you don't find that file in the root of the package. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/