From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Mon Nov  6 00:00:56 2000
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Mon Nov  6 00:00:56 2000
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 06-Nov-00
Message-ID: <200011060600.AAA03488@poet.oracular.com>


evolt.org headlines for 06-Nov-00

IE 6 beta out soon
http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&catid=1&cid=3684


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Nov  6 01:02:36 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Nov  6 01:02:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] Page breaks in mysql?
References: <008501c047a2$168590a0$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3A06579C.1B256D36@Baratta.com>

Adrian Fischer wrote:
> 
> Hi Gang,
> 
> I was hoping someone may have a handy bit of script available that works
> with myself that allows for page breaks when retrieving data.  The type of
> thing that you can customize to suit the number of items you want displayed
> at one time with the option to go to page 2,3,4 etc.  There was a posting
> last week for CF I think but I don't think I can modify it to suit.
> 
> Can anybody point me in the right direction? Oh... the language is
> perl/myself.

Adrain...

I think your spell checker ran amok! LOL

Here is a bit of code I wrote for someone a while ago, hope it helps:
(Big Note: I hacked this up from the original. You will need to read it 
and modify it so that it will work in your environment. Watch for line wrap.)

# You need to pass the Starting page to the 
# function, if no parameter starts at Page 1
# e.g. page_through_data($input{'Page'})

sub page_through_data {  
    if ($_[0] > 0) {
        $StartNumber = $_[0] * 10;
    } else {
        $StartNumber = 1;
    }##end if 

    ## Opening Connection to Database
    $DatabaseString = "DBI:mysql:$varDatabase";
    $DatabaseConnection = DBI->connect($DatabaseString, $varUser, $varPasswd);

    ## Selecting Information into Database
    $QueryString = "SELECT * FROM tablename WHERE column1 = '$valueone'";
    $SelectInfo = $DatabaseConnection->prepare("$QueryString");
    $RetValue = $SelectInfo->execute;
    
    if ($RetValue < 1) {
        &error_in_select;
        exit;
    }##end if 
    
    # Setting up Page Count
    # This assumes 10 items listed per page
    $varReturnValue = $RetValue
    if (chop($varReturnValue) > 0) {
        $varPageCount = $varReturnValue + 1;
    } else {
        $varPageCount = $varReturnValue;
    }##end if 
        
    ## Setting Counter to Zero
    $counter = "0";

    $HTMLPage = "<table><tr><td>Column One</td><td>Column two</td><td>Column
three</td><td>Column four</td></tr>\n"
    
    ## Opening up record set
    while ($varDBInfo = $SelectInfo->fetchrow_arrayref) {

        ## Incriment Counter for each new record
        $counter++;

        ## If counter is between $StartNumber and $StartNumber + 10 then print out
info
        if ($counter >= $StartNumber && $counter <= $StartNumber+10) {
            HTMLPage .=
"<tr><td>$$varDBInfo[0]</td><td>$$varDBInfo[1]</td><td>$$varDBInfo[2]</td><td>$$varDBInfo[3]</td></tr>\n";
        }##end if 
    }##end while


    ## Setting up Page Navigation
    $HTMLNav = "<br>"
    for ($i=1;i<=$varPageCount;$i++) {
        $HTMLNav = "<a href=\"./scriptname.cgi?Page=" . $i . "\">Page&nbsp;" . $i .
"</a>";
    }#end for
    
    ## Print Nav Info
    $HTMLPage .= "<tr><td colspan=\"4\">$HTMLNav</td></tr>\n";

    $HTMLPage .= "</table>\n"

    ## Disconnect from Database
    $SelectUserInfo->finish;
    $DatabaseConnection->disconnect;
    
    ## Print Captured HTML Page
    return $HTMLPage;
}#END Parse_CraftRentals



From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Mon Nov  6 05:00:39 2000
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Mon Nov  6 05:00:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] Need some help saving a record SOLVED
References: <001f01c04777$6ae44900$d6e6869f@mpgalvin> <005501c04778$3d643980$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop> <002b01c04785$7d4d1500$8de3869f@mpgalvin> <00ba01c04786$6c6015c0$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <000001c047e1$5a6bc5c0$10e3869f@mpgalvin>

Thanks

But in the meantime, I came up with my own little solution, which I thought
I would share with the group :)

set filter on database to category code
dim fieldname, n
n = 1
loop
    fieldname = "skilldesc" & cstr(n)
    recordset.description = Request.QueryString(fieldname)
    n=n+1
    adors.Update
    adors.MoveNext
end loop

It sure ain't purty, but it works like a charm.  I could probably make a tip
out of it, but I doubt it's very revolutionary...

(It does of course make the assumption that the order of the fields on the
posting form are the same as the order of the records in the db.  Is this a
horrible assumption to make?)

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: Warden, Matt <mwarden at odyssey-design.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] [ASP] Need some help saving a record


| Well, I don't know if I have the best solution for this, but I basically
did
| what you started to do, but I had another hidden field named (tailored for
| your case): skilldescfieldnames, which held a comma-delimited list of the
| field names on the page. So, in your loop, you'd do something like:
|
| <%
| loop
| ...
| sDescFieldName = "skilldesc" & rs("skillcode")
|
| if not sAllDescFieldNames="" then
sAllDescFieldNames=sAllDescFieldNames&","
| sAllDescFieldNames=sAllDescFieldNames & sDescFieldName
| ...
| end loop
| %>
| <input type="hidden" name="skilldescfieldnames" value="<%Response.Write
| sAllDescFieldNames%>">
|
| Make sense? Like I said, this is how I've handled it before. Might not be
the
| best way.
|
| --
| mattwarden
| mattwarden.com
|
| > Yep.  I'm showing all the skill descriptions for the chosen category,
and
| > allowing them to update whichever ones they want.  I then want to save
all
| > the changes.
|
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Nov  6 05:23:28 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Nov  6 05:23:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Just a freebie tip
Message-ID: <8025698F.003E6487.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

To rate something, you need to know both the rated object and the scale. Even
with
guidance such as
1 - received training
2 - novice
3 - practitioner
4 - expert
it can be difficult, as different organisations will have different thresholds
for each. So
in a non-coding environment, one might be an expert, but in a hard-core geek
environment,
one might only be a novice (that's me with Perl btw).

However, when you're new into an environment, you at least know *yourself*
better than
anyone else does, as you don't have a local history for people to assess you.

Cheers
Martin
(having to self-grade on a whole bunch of things rn)



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] Just a freebie tip



Just as a note on that -- I hate it when people ask other people to rate
themselves. I mean, isn't that kind of stupid? It just seems so subjective
to me and not really an indicator of anything. It's like asking someone, "If
you were a car what kind of car would you be" and then trying to draw a
conclusion based on that. Silly, I think.

> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jacob Stetser
> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 4:43 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Just a freebie tip
>
>
> <tip type="humility">
> A co-worker was reviewed the other day, and when asked what he
> thought his skill level was, between 1-10, replied that he was
> most definitely a 10.
>
> Ouch. Don't do that. Only idiots consider themselves 10s. Those
> of us who know enough to be in the upper single digit levels know
> that there's always something to learn, some new problem, etc.
>
> So never say 10.
> </tip>



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Nov  6 05:26:06 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Nov  6 05:26:06 2000
Subject: [thelist] Offering contracts: Opinions on Etiquette?
Message-ID: <8025698F.003E92EC.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Unless it's BBEdit, or similar kick-ass text editor. Then it's a "I *don't*
use FrontPage cos I know what I'm doing"

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] Offering contracts: Opinions on Etiquette?



In order that this doesn't become a "me too!" post, I should say that
source code speaks for a lot.  META name="generator" in the code of a
company's project is always for me a major flag.  "If they're using x
to do live code, how much do they REALLY know about what they're
doing?"



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Mon Nov  6 07:43:15 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Mon Nov  6 07:43:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] Offering contracts: Opinions on Etiquette?
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6960@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Gang,


Interesting debate ...

Another viewpoint:

I was (very!) recently looking for a new job.      :-)

Early on in my search I "flunked" a telephone interview - because I didn't
have a personal site to point the prospective employer to.  For me, that was
an 'eye-opener'.

I decided it was MY responsibility to work up some examples to showcase the
kinds of things I could do for a new employer.

I bought a domain name.  I bought hosting.  I spent late nights throwing
together "rough" similations of work I had done for other folks.  That
allowed me to show working code to an interviewer and say things like "Yeah
- this uses MS Access - but I've done similar stuff for ABC Company using
Oracle. I'd have used Oracle here - but it's very expensive!"

I thought that was a reasonable way to go.

(The cost of the name and hosting is a very small investment for someone
looking for a 'real' job to make.)


Basically I think a prospect ought to be willing to tell you about the work
they've done for others ... but only show you the code on their personal
site.

My 2?

Ron L.




From Julia_Frizzell at Brown.edu  Mon Nov  6 07:52:15 2000
From: Julia_Frizzell at Brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Mon Nov  6 07:52:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] Mac caching problem?
In-Reply-To: <p05010401b6294f96f3e5@[192.168.1.1]>
References: <013301c04619$50480dc0$31109ad8@michelef>
 <3A039D01.496D12CA@Baratta.com> <p05010401b6294f96f3e5@[192.168.1.1]>
Message-ID: <p04330105b62c675d3755@[128.148.108.209]>

At 6:44 PM +1300 11/4/00, Miraz Jordan wrote:
>I've pondered long on who to ask about an annoying problem I have 
>when updating my website and after checking the FAQ have decided 
>evolt would be a good place.
>
>I use a Mac with OS 9.0.4 to develop pages and then upload them 
>using Interarchy ftp software to my server. I often end up making 
>many small changes consecutively and reuploading maybe half a dozen 
>times before I'm satisfied. So far so good.
>
>The problem comes when I try to check the newly uploaded page - with 
>Internet Explorer 5, Netscape Communicator 4.74 and even Wannabe, 
>text-only browser, the web browser often fails to show the new 
>version of the page. Even Refresh / Reload and Super Reload don't 
>work.
>
>Then I open up iCab and that also shows the old version, until I hit 
>Reload, then the new version shows. Then I can also go back and 
>reload into MIE etc and get the new version of the page.
>
>Naturally I have done things like set the cache to 0Mb, check page 
>each time etc. This doesn't help.
>
>I'm on a cable modem with fixed IP address.
>
>I don't know whether the problem lies with my machine, my cable 
>connection, my ISP or the server where the site is hosted.
>
>Does this problem afflict others? Any suggestions on how / where to 
>begin the troubleshooting?

What webserver software are you using? Here, with WebStar, there is 
often a caching problem with the webserver, and I have to go flush 
the cache for the new pages to be served. The cache will 
automatically flush at a certain point, but it's not always soon 
enough for our web designers. :)

-- 
-------------------------------
Julia Frizzell
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
glyneth at netspace.org
http://www.netspace.org/~glyneth
http://www.theblackroad.org
"Insert pithy quote here."



From sde at ridingzone.com  Mon Nov  6 08:07:32 2000
From: sde at ridingzone.com (Stephane Deschamps)
Date: Mon Nov  6 08:07:32 2000
Subject: [thelist] Click here!
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001106150517.009db0b0@mail.ridingzone.com>

At long last I found the URL I really liked about this 'click here' thread.

http://home.netscape.com/computing/webbuilding/studio/feature19980827-1.html

Stef (HTML rider)




From twebb at dynamicinst.com  Mon Nov  6 08:31:13 2000
From: twebb at dynamicinst.com (Tom Webb)
Date: Mon Nov  6 08:31:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
In-Reply-To: <OJEHKHJAJCILJIOLCHPDGEMICHAA.nic@dmeb.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001106063359.0096cdc0@mailserver>

We use CIHOST at www.cihost.com.  They have the best prices and best service.
Tom Webb

At 11:53 AM 11/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
>It looks like we may lose our current hosting deal. Oh no...
>So I'm looking at options.
>This site is a big one, and I may be underestimating our stats.
>Disk space: 10 Gig at least.
>Number of sessions daily: 40,000 and climbing
>Ad views: 5 millions monthly and climbing
>bandwidth: no clue, but it's high. Just in August, we had one 10Meg file
>downloaded over a million times.
>
>Technical requirements:
>CGI server
>ASP server with MS SQL for the admin section
>load balancing between CGI, multimedia and straight HTML
>mailing aliases
>pop accounts
>at least one mailing list (25,000 users)
>multiple FTP accounts
>hmmm. what else...
>
>Our site is currently spread over 8 *nix servers, and one NT. The message
>boards are hosted on another 8 NT boxes, but those are not dedicated to us.
>I don't know how much strain our own message boards put on those boxes.
>
>Our current deal is sweet but about to go sour. We're unlimited in all of
>the above, and they pocket the money from our ads. The site is
>not-for-profit and we're perfectly willing to let someone else get the money
>from the ads, as long as we get a little bit to cover our expenses.
>
>Any suggestion?
>
>Hosting it ourselves is probably out of the question. High bandwidth where I
>live is too expensive, and no one else on the team is technical enough to be
>put in charge of a server, let alone a farm.
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Nov  6 09:24:54 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:24:54 2000
Subject: [thelist] managing e-mail lists
Message-ID: <8025698F.005469ED.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Janet

What scale of budget are we talking?

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] managing e-mail lists



We have a client that would like to collect e-mail address on their site
for visitors interested in new products. What options are available that
would allow the client to send a newsletter/update to everyone on the
subscribe list.




--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From talleman at autobex.com  Mon Nov  6 09:33:51 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:33:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  Make your own .mdb
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEGEPJCAAA.talleman@autobex.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEAEBPCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

>From an ASP script, can you use the FileScriptingObject to create a file
with an .mdb extension and then use CreateTables statements to populate it?

I'm working on it from here, but thought maybe I'd see if somebody else had
already tried it and could save me some time.




From Ari_Herzog at Instron.com  Mon Nov  6 09:37:14 2000
From: Ari_Herzog at Instron.com (Herzog, Ari)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:37:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] PayPal.com
Message-ID: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3C6@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>

I have used paypal for about 6 months, via my ebay auctions I sell and buy
on.
To the extent, when bidding on an item, I prefer if the seller accepts
paypal.

-ari


-----Original Message-----
From: Michele Foster [mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:40 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] PayPal.com


Hi folks,

Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, the services offered by this
company?  I'm seriously thinking about setting up an account with them, now
that their services are available in Canada.  Their transaction fees seem to
be much lower than regular merchant account fees, at 1.9% + 25 cents
transaction.  There is the draw back that the funds will be processed in
U.S. funds, even though my prices will be in Canadian on my site.

Anyway, here's the main page URL at
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_home, and in particular web tools
at http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/web/index-outside.

This could very well be a viable option for small businesses in Canada..
thoughts?

TIA,

Michele

___________________________

Michele Foster
WordPro Services
Aurora, Ontario, Canada
mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
http://wordpro.on.ca/



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From Ari_Herzog at Instron.com  Mon Nov  6 09:39:27 2000
From: Ari_Herzog at Instron.com (Herzog, Ari)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:39:27 2000
Subject: [thelist] Please help in background selection...
Message-ID: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3C7@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>

Hi. I have created 3 files for evaluation.
I am not concerned with any links or images,
just the far right border/background for browsers
with 1024 and higher resolutions.

Please let me know which is your favorite,
and which you don't like.
Any and all comments/suggestions appreciated.

Note: For #3 below (blue.htm),
I am aware of the missing shim on the right side.

#1: http://63.74.113.158/grey.htm

#2: http://63.74.113.158/white.htm

#3: http://63.74.113.158/blue.htm


Thanks alot,
Ari

------------------------------------
Ari Herzog
Internet Webmaster
Instron Corporation
Tel:  781-575-5638
Fax: 781-575-5768
Email: ari_herzog at instron.com

Check out our website at http://www.instron.com



From bheerssen at iecommerce.net  Mon Nov  6 09:43:50 2000
From: bheerssen at iecommerce.net (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:43:50 2000
Subject: [thelist] Offering contracts: Opinions on Etiquette?
References: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6960@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <3a06d0cc$1@fuseware.com>

I recently went through a round of interviews before taking my current job.
Each and every company wanted an example of work I had performed in the
past. I'm not sure what answer they expected, but I refused, citing security
concerns. Every company expressed respect for this answer. However, I did
come prepared. At each interview, I brought a floppy with my resume,
brainbench certification, and some sample code on it that I developed on my
own time. That was very well received. In fact, I think that that floppy was
instrumental in bringing in the offers that I received.

Anyway, I thought my experience might shed a little light on the whole
"expose your source code" issue. Companies that ask for source code are more
interested in seeing your coding style than in anything else. As a
developer, you have a responsibility to furnish this for them in a way that
will not compromise your previous employers/clients. Companies that wish to
hire should expect the same. Any developer that would expose a previous
employer's source code probably cannot be trusted to keep source code
private in the future. A prospective employer would do well to keep that in
mind.



"Luther, Ron" <Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com> wrote in message
news:446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6960 at cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net...
> Hi Gang,
>
>
> Interesting debate ...
>
> Another viewpoint:
>
> I was (very!) recently looking for a new job.      :-)
>
> Early on in my search I "flunked" a telephone interview - because I didn't
> have a personal site to point the prospective employer to.  For me, that
was
> an 'eye-opener'.
>
> I decided it was MY responsibility to work up some examples to showcase
the
> kinds of things I could do for a new employer.
>
> I bought a domain name.  I bought hosting.  I spent late nights throwing
> together "rough" similations of work I had done for other folks.  That
> allowed me to show working code to an interviewer and say things like
"Yeah
> - this uses MS Access - but I've done similar stuff for ABC Company using
> Oracle. I'd have used Oracle here - but it's very expensive!"
>
> I thought that was a reasonable way to go.
>
> (The cost of the name and hosting is a very small investment for someone
> looking for a 'real' job to make.)
>
>
> Basically I think a prospect ought to be willing to tell you about the
work
> they've done for others ... but only show you the code on their personal
> site.
>
> My 2?
>
> Ron L.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From n.haldimann at derbund.ch  Mon Nov  6 09:53:15 2000
From: n.haldimann at derbund.ch (Niklaus Haldimann)
Date: Mon Nov  6 09:53:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS, image border color and IE
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001106165721.009b3e50@mail.derbund.ch>

Hi gang.

I'm trying to add borders to images using CSS. I've had success with the
following approach in Netscape browsers:

<snip from style sheet>

a:link {color: #0066cc}
a:visited {color: #0066cc}
a:active {color: #000000}
a:hover {color: #000033}

a.pic:link {color: black}
a.pic:visited {color: black}
a.pic:active {color: black}
a.pic:hover {color: black}

</snip>

<snip from HTML source>
<a href="#" class="pic"><img src="pic.jpg" border="1"></a>
</snip>

All linked images are supposed to have a black border rather than a blue one.

It doesn't work in Internet Explorer. I guess I need to apply a class to
the images rather than to the anchors. But obviously I don't know how. Can
anybody help?

Thanks,
Niklaus.

--
http://eBund.ch http://eGames.ch
aktuell: http://www.eWahlen.ch



From sgd at ti3.com  Mon Nov  6 10:12:46 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon Nov  6 10:12:46 2000
Subject: [thelist] Just a freebie tip
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F634@gate.ti3.com>

There are appropriate places, I registered for an Ultimate Frisbee league
last week, and had to self-rate ...myself, the scale was detailed enough to
make a pretty good assessment:

http://www.geocities.com/dallasultimate/ranking.html

and as far as the sport itself: http://www.ultimatehandbook.com


anyhoo....
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Erickson [mailto:amanda at gawow.com]

> Just as a note on that -- I hate it when people ask other 
> people to rate
> themselves. I mean, isn't that kind of stupid? It just seems 



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Nov  6 10:19:25 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Nov  6 10:19:25 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  Make your own .mdb
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEAEBPCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
References: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEGEPJCAAA.talleman@autobex.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106082101.00aff358@baratta.com>

At 07:33 AM 11/6/2000, you wrote:
> >From an ASP script, can you use the FileScriptingObject to create a file
>with an .mdb extension and then use CreateTables statements to populate it?
>
>I'm working on it from here, but thought maybe I'd see if somebody else had
>already tried it and could save me some time.


As far as I can tell, no. You can't even create an .mdb file from the MS 
SQL interface when you export data from MS SQL. If the functionality ain't 
there, then I would think that it can't be done without Access available. 
Which is too bad.

What I do is create an empty Access DB, store it on the server and grab a 
copy of it when I need a blank one. Sucks, but it works.



----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From jaylard at equilon.com  Mon Nov  6 10:27:06 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Mon Nov  6 10:27:06 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS, image border color and IE
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC89@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Niklaus,

> I'm trying to add borders to images using CSS.

	For IE, the easiest way to do this:

img { border: 1px solid #000000 ; }

	This will assign a 1 pixel black border to *all* images, however, so
you might want to be a bit more specific (using your html snippet as an
example):

<a href="#"><img class="pic" src="pic.jpg" border="0"></a>

	and in your style sheet:

img.pic { border: 1px solid #000000 ; }

	The inclusion of the border attribute in the img element itself
isn't necessary. Also, Netscape 4 handles this all very poorly, creating a
little floating box outside of the image, so you might want to use browser
detection before applying the style in this way (which is
standards-compliant, btw).

hth,
James Aylard



From dbailey2 at healthaxis.com  Mon Nov  6 11:56:14 2000
From: dbailey2 at healthaxis.com (Bailey, Dan)
Date: Mon Nov  6 11:56:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
Message-ID: <7171306544DBD31195B900D0B7222A4EE3482E@haxcre00.healthaxis.com>

Awright...here's the scoop.  I built a database to keep track of a large
volume of information (fonts) -- the site's www.fontosaurus.com.  Anyway, I
should have included a column for this, but I didn't.

I have a column named FontName, which keeps track of the full name of the
font.  What I need to be able to do is a lookup based on the first letter of
the name in that column.

(Am I being clear here?  What I need to do, is based on FontName, pull up
every entry where FontName starts with "A".)

Also, I need to be able to run a query where it will grab all the entries in
FontName that start with a number.

I didn't bring my damn SQL reference to the office with me today, and have
nothing to do here, so I've been plugging away at my personal stuff.  :-)

Help!  :-)

-- Dan



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Mon Nov  6 12:09:47 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:09:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6965@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Dan,

Column? ... Don't need no stinkin' Column!!

Try a "Select FontName From DansDB Where FontName Like 'A%';"

(Can't remember offhand if it's "like" or "is like" --- but it's something
'like' that.)


For the numeric one ... I'd probably screw things up by trying something
like ...

"Where Not IsErr(CInt(Left(FontName,1)));" ... but somebody will probably
have a cooler idea.



;-)


HTH,

Ron L.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bailey, Dan [mailto:dbailey2 at healthaxis.com]
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question

I have a column named FontName, which keeps track of the full name of the
font.  What I need to be able to do is a lookup based on the first letter of
the name in that column.



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Nov  6 12:18:27 2000
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:18:27 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
References: <7171306544DBD31195B900D0B7222A4EE3482E@haxcre00.healthaxis.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c0481d$f5abc3a0$02049ad8@michelef>

Dan,

Here's my solution for ASP/Access database... I'd be interested to know if
there is a better option .. this one works just fine for me tho, but am not
sure how well it does performance wise.

SqlString = SqlString & "SELECT whatever FROM wherever "
SqlString = SqlString & "WHERE (Name LIKE '0%') OR (Name LIKE '1%') OR (Name
LIKE '2%') OR (Name LIKE '3%') OR (Name LIKE '4%') OR (Name LIKE '5%') OR
(Name LIKE '6%') OR (Name LIKE '7%') OR (Name LIKE '8%') OR (Name LIKE '9%')
"

Ron's solution is the same I use for letters Name Like 'A%'.

HTH,

Michele


> I have a column named FontName, which keeps track of the full name of the
> font.  What I need to be able to do is a lookup based on the first letter
of
> the name in that column.
>
> Also, I need to be able to run a query where it will grab all the entries
in
> FontName that start with a number.





From taz at hy.cgocable.ca  Mon Nov  6 12:20:43 2000
From: taz at hy.cgocable.ca (Stephane Gosselin)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:20:43 2000
Subject: [thelist] 2 pixel space between tables ?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001106131922.00b2b870@mail.hy.cgocable.ca>

Hi. Just a small problem I have getting two tables to hug tightly against 
one another.
http://www.cfusions.com is where the boboo is at. Thanks for the help all.




From james at designframe.com  Mon Nov  6 12:24:47 2000
From: james at designframe.com (James Spahr)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:24:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
In-Reply-To: <001c01c0481d$f5abc3a0$02049ad8@michelef>
Message-ID: <B62C6199.1EF98%james@designframe.com>

on 11/6/00 1:18 PM, Michele Foster at michele at wordpro.on.ca wrote:

> Here's my solution for ASP/Access database... I'd be interested to know if
> there is a better option .. this one works just fine for me tho, but am not
> sure how well it does performance wise.
> 
> SqlString = SqlString & "SELECT whatever FROM wherever "
> SqlString = SqlString & "WHERE (Name LIKE '0%') OR (Name LIKE '1%') OR (Name
> LIKE '2%') OR (Name LIKE '3%') OR (Name LIKE '4%') OR (Name LIKE '5%') OR
> (Name LIKE '6%') OR (Name LIKE '7%') OR (Name LIKE '8%') OR (Name LIKE '9%')
> "
> 
> Ron's solution is the same I use for letters Name Like 'A%'.

I'd try 

SELECT whatever FROM wherever WHERE Name RLIKE '[0-9].*'

RLIKE, or REGEXP let you use full regex for searches.

James.





From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Mon Nov  6 12:25:01 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:25:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] 2 pixel space between tables ?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001106131922.00b2b870@mail.hy.cgocable.ca>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106122246.00ab2920@redhotsweeps.com>

Try this.  On line 67:

   <tr>
     <td width="136">


<!-- ImageReady Slices (menu.psd) -->
<TABLE WIDTH=136 BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0>

Put the <table> tag on the same line with that <td> tag.  See if that helps.

CDitty

At 12:21 PM 11/6/00, you wrote:
>Hi. Just a small problem I have getting two tables to hug tightly against 
>one another.
>http://www.cfusions.com is where the boboo is at. Thanks for the help all.
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From arthur at arthurnoel.com  Mon Nov  6 12:25:24 2000
From: arthur at arthurnoel.com (Arthur Noel)
Date: Mon Nov  6 12:25:24 2000
Subject: [thelist] on writing dtds
Message-ID: <DMECIHAHKBIGLEHDAEJKMEFPCKAA.arthur@arthurnoel.com>

Hey,
Has anyone ever hacked one of these around?

I'm having trouble rewriting an HTML 4.01 definition so that it lets me put
form tags in dead space? i.e have a table like this:

<table>
<form>
<tr>
etc...

Is there somewhere that has info on this kind of stuff?

Thanks,
Arthur




From michele at inthree.com  Mon Nov  6 13:18:52 2000
From: michele at inthree.com (Michele Wandrei)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:18:52 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
References: <OJEHKHJAJCILJIOLCHPDGEMICHAA.nic@dmeb.net>
Message-ID: <00b101c04826$5a9a6980$11330d18@roalok1.mi.home.com>

You might want to check out the discussion boards at
www.webhostingtalk.com.  They are very helpful!

For what it's worth, I just moved all my domains to TVCNet
(www.tvcnet.com).  Their site is confusing, but their hosting
packages are great and the personal service I've received is
incredible.  You probably won't find what you need on their site,
but you might want to give them a call.  They may be able to
customize a package for you.
___________________________________________________
Michele Wandrei
inThree Design
www.inthree.com







From jmerriam at achilles.net  Mon Nov  6 13:24:55 2000
From: jmerriam at achilles.net (jmerriam)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:24:55 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS, image border color and IE
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001106165721.009b3e50@mail.derbund.ch>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106140109.00b475c0@pop1.achilles.net>

Hi,

try the source here

http://www.theplazahotel.com.tr/rooms.htm

i think this is what you're after.

jeff




From talleman at autobex.com  Mon Nov  6 13:40:22 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:40:22 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106082101.00aff358@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEMECBCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I know) puts a blank
line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be used as a CSS
selector.. is there any other easy way around this?




From sgd at ti3.com  Mon Nov  6 13:44:11 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:44:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F637@gate.ti3.com>

close it just before you close the body:

...
</form>
</body>
</html>

or will that not work for you in this case?
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tab Alleman [mailto:talleman at autobex.com]
> 
> I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I 
> know) puts a blank
> line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be 
> used as a CSS
> selector.. is there any other easy way around this?



From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca  Mon Nov  6 13:46:36 2000
From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:46:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: [OT] Just a *frisbee* tip
Message-ID: <OFF174D0A1.1B7121FC-ON8525698F.006A9AA1@1.10.196>

sorry if this is a duplicate, i made a typo in the To: address on the 
previous post

<tip comment="an offtopic post requires a web development tip; out of 
courtesy i always try to remember (i'm not always successful) to put it at 
the top">

   If you plan to use the [Lorem Ipsum] text for modeling 
   purposes or whatever, be sure to get an accurate copy, 
   or at least one that won't embarrass you. There are 
   several different versions on the Net. The text has 
   evolved over the years, sometimes by accident (typos) 
   and sometimes on purpose (word substitutions, injected 
   humor). Some are really very funny, but you probably 
   wouldn't want to accidentally integrate them with your 
   website! 

           http://www.neosplice.com/~ailanto/lorem.htm

</tip>


hi scott

> http://www.geocities.com/dallasultimate/ranking.html
 
hmmm....  on that scale i'd be a 0 

for anyone else not quite in the elite class of humans that can play 
ultimate, may i suggest frisbee golf 

feel free to contact me if you're in, or plan to be in, the toronto area 
-- i'll take you to a fabulous course down by the balmy beach club

the nice part about frisbee golf is that you don't really need those fancy 
schmancy baskets that the pros use -- any identifiable target will do 
(e.g. "see that second tree left of the building? that's a par three, 
okay?")

you can even adapt it for family play (don't forget to give the kids a 
good handicap) -- 

  http://family.go.com/Categories/Activities/Features/family_1997_09/famf/famf97playground/famf97playground4.html


rudy
r937.com






From talleman at autobex.com  Mon Nov  6 13:50:31 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:50:31 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F637@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEEECCCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

I am closing the form(s)..

Actually this is on a page with several forms, all of them with only a
submit button displayed in a <td>.. because of the whitespace, each <td> is
twice as tall as it needs to be with the button in the top half of the
cell..



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 2:44 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] </form> without whitespace. css?


close it just before you close the body:

...
</form>
</body>
</html>

or will that not work for you in this case?
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tab Alleman [mailto:talleman at autobex.com]
>
> I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I
> know) puts a blank
> line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be
> used as a CSS
> selector.. is there any other easy way around this?

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From morbus at disobey.com  Mon Nov  6 13:53:33 2000
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:53:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEMECBCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106082101.00aff358@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001106145113.00a35be0@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I know) puts a blank
 >line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be used as a CSS
 >selector.. is there any other easy way around this?

Depending on your HTML setup, I've occasionally found that putting a blank 
<input> tag immediately before the </form> would do it. What I've found 
always works though, is to distance the <form> <form body> and </form> as 
far as way from each other as possible, such like this:

<html>
<body>
<form and hidden junk>

...your page...
<form inputs>
...your page...

</form>
</body></html>


Morbus Iff
.sig on other machine.
http://www.disobey.com/
http://www.gamegrene.com/




From jaylard at equilon.com  Mon Nov  6 13:55:26 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:55:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC8B@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Tab,

> I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I know) puts a
blank
> line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be used as a CSS
> selector.. is there any other easy way around this?

	Annoying, yes. You can get around it using CSS:

form { margin: 0px ; }

	MS does list "form" as a possible selector for the margin property,
and I'm not aware of anything in the W3C spec that would forbid it.

hth,
James Aylard



From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Mon Nov  6 13:56:13 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Mon Nov  6 13:56:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE:  cross browser test this site... please...
In-Reply-To: <20001105180019.8B4736BAF2@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c0482e$47660e20$a401410a@tracyc>

Hi Jason,
I am viewing in Netscape 4.0 on a PC at 1024x768.
The copy on the right in the 'news' section is illegible...really small and
choppy. I don't know if you know this but none of the links anywhere on the
page work. Also, for the 'services', 'context', and 'company' rollovers I am
getting repeated JS errors-none of these items are clickable.


In NN 4.7 things are a bit better.
>From a UI standpoint, the logo in the top left should be clickable. I was
confused on how to retun to the start page.
If I click the services bar then click 'basho bootcamp' the content is
loaded in the lower section and the navigation items move to the right
side....the one that is highlighted (in this case the bootcamp) is sitting
ontop of another option. The other options are not clickable and it is
unclear on how to return home to get the other options in the services
section. If I click the <<< on the bottom I am served a page which has two
sets of content superimposed ontop of each other. On this page the nav on
the right has 'basho frontdesk' and 'basho bootcamp' highlighted. The other
items in the nav are still not available for clicking.

The same sort of behavior is happening with the other sections.
I really like the overall style of the site it just has a few tech glitches.
Let me know if you need a FULL QA on this and I can help you out (I may not
be able to help you fix them but I can let you know what they are) ;)

carleen

> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:46:06 -0800
> From: Jason Fields <fason at sirius.com>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Cc: Darren Endo <endo at v1c.net>
> Subject: [thelist] cross browser test this site... please...
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Attention Evolt list subscribers...
>
> This is an open call for people who would be interested in
> helping me cross
> browser test a site (this includes dhtml, javascript, and css)...
>
> This is the site in need of help... <http://www.basho.com/ver2/>
>
> Basically I have built the dhtml foundation and apart from some minor
> graphic changes... I am pretty much done with the site... which
> brings me to
> asking you all for help... first off its a pro bono project.... so I cant
> really go to a third party testing firm... then next if not even better
> solution... call upon the talented people that subscribe to the evolt
> list...
>
> I have hit a brick wall... probably because I have been sitting
> in front of
> my computer for the past month building this site from scratch... now it
> comes time to test it on all the different browsers (4.0+ MacOS/Win98)...
>
> And... of courses it falls apart on NS (MacOS/Win98) and on IE (Win98)...
>
> So... since I dont have the bandwidth to $ hire anyone... if any
> of you want
> to take a peek and help me out... I wont forget you when xmas comes
> around...  Thanks in advance...
>
> Regards,
> Jason Fields.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> 1730 20th street, lower unit
> san francisco, ca 94107 usa
>
> +1.415.823.5353 mobile
> +1.603.697.8394 efax
>
> fason at sirius.com
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist
>
> Archives: http://lists.evolt.org
>
> End of thelist Digest
>




From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca  Mon Nov  6 14:03:15 2000
From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:03:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] 2 pixel space between tables ?
Message-ID: <OF3AFF74C1.67EBE226-ON8525698F.0067D669@1.10.196>

> http://www.cfusions.com

hi stephane

if you mean the slight gap between 1a.jpg and 2.jpg (it's only 1 pixel in 
netscape 4.04), here's the cause of your trouble --

    54   <table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    55     <tr> 
    --  [snip]
    61     </tr>
    62     <tr>
    63      </table> 
    64 
    65   <table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    66     <td 
    --  [snip]
    68     </tr>
 
the gap is caused by the extraneous <tr> on line 62

you might want to move it to between lines 65 and 66 because the <tr> is 
missing there  ;o)

also, you have some spaces on line 64, some browsers may actually render 
them in between the two 100% tables

finally, 
<tip>
always specify hspace="0" and vspace"0" for images that you want to snug 
up against each other
</tip>

rudy
r937.com



From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Mon Nov  6 14:04:00 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:04:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: cross browser test this site... please...
In-Reply-To: <20001106154359.7926A1BE10@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c0482f$75fb4c40$a401410a@tracyc>

Bekah-
x
thanks for that tip...I didn't know that. It's fabulous ;)
carleen
__________________________________
Carleen Tracy
Creative Lead
B3 Interactive
Boston . Seattle
781.902.8569
 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 15:16:12 -0500
> From: Rebekah Murphy <bekah at nightvisions.com>
> Reply-To: bekah at nightvisions.com
> Organization: NightVisions.com
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] cross browser test this site... please...
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> 
> Jason Fields wrote:
> > This is the site in need of help... <http://www.basho.com/ver2/>
> 
> MacOS 8.6 netscape 4.7
> I am getting a lot of javascript errors. I had to open the frames in new
> layers to see them because all navigation elements had been obliterated
> on the pop-up.
> 
> topnav.html line 104 "obj has no properties"
> company.html line 269 "hide is not defined" line 259 "navArea has no
> properties" line 220 "obj has no properties" 
> 
> <tip type="javascript debugging in Netscape">
> type "javascript:" (without the quotes) into the location bar (this is
> where you would type in a URL). A popup box will appear with errors.
> </tip>
> -Bekah
> 




From vmv at online.sinor.ru  Mon Nov  6 14:04:38 2000
From: vmv at online.sinor.ru (Michael V. Vladimirov)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:04:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEMECBCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
References: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEMECBCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
Message-ID: <8870260038.20001107015154@online.sinor.ru>

Hello Tab,

Tuesday, November 07, 2000, 1:39:47 AM, you wrote:

TA> I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I know) puts a blank
TA> line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be used as a CSS
TA> selector.. is there any other easy way around this?

<form ... style="margin:0"> ... </form>

This works for me..

-- 
Best regards,
 Michael                            mailto:vmv at online.sinor.ru





From jason at v1c.net  Mon Nov  6 14:12:04 2000
From: jason at v1c.net (Jason Fields)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:12:04 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re: Re: cross browser test this site... please...
Message-ID: <B62C4311.4F3D%jason@v1c.net>

Heya...

Thanks for all the comments... Obviously some of the stuff you made notes on
was out of context... as the site splash is not done... and neither is some
of the content... but aside from that the site is pretty solid...

I know that it does not work in a  number of browsers on the PC side... and
I guess I was looking for more specific examples (ie. javascript help), but
thats ok... 

Its funny that I have gotten alot of people commenting on the popup
window... which brings me to another questions... how do you recommend
maintaining a user experience in a custom environment... if you are so
annoyed with the spawning window? I particularly dont like the browser
controls as such... (you know the home button, email, balh blah blah)

Just food for thought...

Thanks again for your screenshots, feedback, comments, etc... I will let you
all know when the site officially goes live...

Cheers,
Jason.


------------------------------
v1 consulting
1730 20th street, lower unit
san francisco, ca 94107 usa

+1.415.642.2808  office.us
+1.415.823.5353  mobile.us
+1.603.697.8394  efax.us

+44.7092.21.1995 mobile.ec

http://www.v1c.net/
mailto:jason at v1c.net
------------------------------




From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca  Mon Nov  6 14:12:07 2000
From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:12:07 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
Message-ID: <OFFBC179A7.605809A0-ON8525698F.006B4EAF@1.10.196>

> Here's my solution for ASP/Access database... I'd be interested to know 
if
> there is a better option .. this one works just fine for me tho, but am 
not
> sure how well it does performance wise.
>
> SqlString = SqlString & "SELECT whatever FROM wherever "
> SqlString = SqlString & "WHERE (Name LIKE '0%') OR (Name LIKE '1%') OR 
(Name
> LIKE '2%') OR (Name LIKE '3%') OR (Name LIKE '4%') OR (Name LIKE '5%') 
OR
> (Name LIKE '6%') OR (Name LIKE '7%') OR (Name LIKE '8%') OR (Name LIKE 
'9%')
> "

hi michele

a better option?  that depends on the database (access? mysql? sql/server? 
oracle? db2? informix?)

it also depends on whether there are any indexes declared on the column in 
question -- no index, you get a scan of all the rows in the table

note that using LIKE in a query causes (used to cause? i'm a bit out of 
touch with the latest database developments) some database optimizers to 
throw up their hands, figuratively speaking, and scan all the rows of the 
table regardless of whether an index exists

it depends on how sophisticated the optimizer is in terms of calculating 
the potential number of input/output operations using the index to access 
the table rows, versus the number of i/o's just to scan all the table rows

for a query such as LIKE 'fumblegoozer%' in a 15-character column, using 
the index might be efficient

for a query such as LIKE '%foo' (in any size column), the index would be 
pretty useless

anyhow, michele, for the example you gave, with ten LIKEs all OR'd 
together, just the fact that there are so many ORs might throw some 
optimizers off

you might want to try

   where Name >= '0'

instead, but be aware that you'll get everything that starts not only with 
a digit but also any other characters that collate higher than the 9 
(although off the top of my head i can't think of any)

furthermore, some optimizers will evaluate Name >= '0' favourably and will 
use the index after all

finally, i really like james' idea of using REGEXP, but of course the 
particular database language has to support that

rudy
r937.com



From talleman at autobex.com  Mon Nov  6 14:16:21 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:16:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC8B@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEKECDCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

Well I tried putting both { margin: 0px ; } AND { margin-bottom: 0px ; } in
my stylesheet, and neither had any effect.  For good measure I also tried
values of -30 for both.  Still no effect.  I'm viewing the page in IE 5.0 if
that matters.

-----Original Message-----
	Annoying, yes. You can get around it using CSS:

form { margin: 0px ; }

	MS does list "form" as a possible selector for the margin property,
and I'm not aware of anything in the W3C spec that would forbid it.

hth,
James Aylard




From talleman at autobex.com  Mon Nov  6 14:18:38 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:18:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <8870260038.20001107015154@online.sinor.ru>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEAECECBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

Ok.. when I put this Inline, it worked.  Just not from my external style
sheet.  Weird, but ok.  Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
<form ... style="margin:0"> ... </form>

This works for me..




From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Mon Nov  6 14:27:05 2000
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:27:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] Also Looking for a New Host
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMKEMADNAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Hello All,

We're having some operational problems with our current providers.

I am therefore reluctantly looking at moving our entire portfolio over to a
new host.  This would include some 108 domains, c. 25+ web sites, and at
least three dial-up accounts if possible.

Traffic/bandwidth is reasonably low - less than ?GB per month on any of
them - and our only other web hosting requirements are NT servers with
FrontPage 2000 Extensions to allow some of our Clients to update their own
content.  Physical size is also small - less than 50MB in total, I'd
estimate.

*The host must be based or operated from the UK* as we need to be able to
have telephone support at times that suit us - we're UK-based too.

We also need to be able to sue in the UK Courts if anything goes seriously
wrong...

We do not have our own IP/ISP Tags so that we would need our new hosts to
handle domain name registration in the .uk and .com namespaces for us.

Ideally we'd have our own designated server: our current provider managed to
get a virus which wasn't picked up by its AV package.  This migrated its way
through all the web servers, taking out (repeatedly) eight of our web
sites...

Another wrinkle is that we'd need some form of open SMTP mail server so that
we and our Clients could send and receive e-mail whilst connecting with a
variety of ISPs worldwide.

Any recommendations?

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard H. Morris, Director, Web Designers Ltd
        http://www.web-designers.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Registered in England No 3506389
                  Registered Office:
3 Church Street Wymondham Norfolk NR18 0PH
                   Trading Address:
  4 Maden Close Wymondham Norfolk NR18 0UA
               T: +44 (0)1953 606158
               F: +44 (0)1953 606185
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/





From jaylard at equilon.com  Mon Nov  6 14:56:00 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Mon Nov  6 14:56:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC8C@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Tab,

> Ok.. when I put this Inline, it worked.  Just not from my external style
> sheet.  Weird, but ok.  Thanks!

	I would have to say that you had a syntax error, or that some other
value was overriding your linked style sheet then. I have had no problems
with either linked or embedded style sheets eliminating the form margin in
IE4+.

James Aylard



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Mon Nov  6 15:49:11 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Mon Nov  6 15:49:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] Need some help saving a record SOLVED
References: <001f01c04777$6ae44900$d6e6869f@mpgalvin> <005501c04778$3d643980$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop> <002b01c04785$7d4d1500$8de3869f@mpgalvin> <00ba01c04786$6c6015c0$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop> <000001c047e1$5a6bc5c0$10e3869f@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <021501c0483b$5c4574e0$597b5acf@mwardenlaptop>

> set filter on database to category code
> dim fieldname, n
> n = 1
> loop
>     fieldname = "skilldesc" & cstr(n)
>     recordset.description = Request.QueryString(fieldname)
>     n=n+1
>     adors.Update
>     adors.MoveNext
> end loop

are you not assuming that there are records starting at 1 and going on from
there hitting each integer? And I don't see how the loop ever stops... how
would you know when to stop the loop?

> (It does of course make the assumption that the order of the fields on the
> posting form are the same as the order of the records in the db.  Is this a
> horrible assumption to make?)

Maybe, maybe not. Just don't delete any records ;-)



--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From sam at sam-i-am.com  Mon Nov  6 17:00:11 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Mon Nov  6 17:00:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML
References: <8025698B.0045ABA0.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <3A073776.ABE98916@sam-i-am.com>

turns out all the conversions work a lot better with a word 98 document. 
Lists are lists etc.. Not so in Office2000 
Don't know why.

> Actually, the best Word->HTML I've seen is done by FrontPage
> (Word & FP 97/8 - ymmv on 2k versions). As long as it's just
> a simple text page, then there's not much for FP to screw with.

that's true.. I used to keep it installed for just that reason. 
Might come back to that one. 

thanks
sam



From icongarden at icongarden.com  Mon Nov  6 17:03:23 2000
From: icongarden at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Mon Nov  6 17:03:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
Message-ID: <20001106230212.MKCE26316.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>

I don't mean to start anything, but I've worked with sites on CIHost before and so have several people I know. Their technical support and their speed are both extremely slow. 

I'm not sure of their prices lately, but the latest victim (that I know) of their appeal has told me they are reasonable. However, given how slow their servers have been in my experience, coupled with the fact that their technical support is slow and usually ineffectual, I couldn't recommend them.

Anecdote: I wrote a small PHP upload script for the friend  in question and we discovered that the upload limit for PHP was 2 MB. That setting is easily changeable in php.ini. Perl, on the other hand, was set with an upload limit of 10 MB. 

Tech support refused to change that setting for parity between the two environments, saying it would 'break scripts' (not bloody likely), and that we should consider a dedicated host if we want to change it. I've administered a PHP installation before and changing the upload limit will not break scripts. Most likely the admins are using default Red Hat installs and rpms and have no idea how to change it. 

Do you want to host with someone like that?

On Monday, November 6, 2000, at 09:34 AM, Tom Webb wrote:

> We use CIHOST at www.cihost.com.  They have the best prices and best service. 
> Tom Webb 
>  




From icongarden at icongarden.com  Mon Nov  6 17:17:33 2000
From: icongarden at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Mon Nov  6 17:17:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re: Re: cross browser test this site... please...
Message-ID: <20001106231751.PTWT2160.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>

Let it float in a single color background, ala http://contest.arcadus.com .. click on the HTML version

(I made this :)

On the other hand, the Flash version is a popup.

Jake Stetser

On Monday, November 6, 2000, at 02:14 PM, Jason Fields wrote:

> Heya... 
>  
> Thanks for all the comments... Obviously some of the stuff you made notes on 
> was out of context... as the site splash is not done... and neither is some 
> of the content... but aside from that the site is pretty solid... 
>  
> I know that it does not work in a  number of browsers on the PC side... and 
> I guess I was looking for more specific examples (ie. javascript help), but 
> thats ok...  
>  
> Its funny that I have gotten alot of people commenting on the popup 
> window... which brings me to another questions... how do you recommend 
> maintaining a user experience in a custom environment... if you are so 
> annoyed with the spawning window? I particularly dont like the browser 
> controls as such... (you know the home button, email, balh blah blah) 
>  
> Just food for thought... 
>  
> Thanks again for your screenshots, feedback, comments, etc... I will let you 
> all know when the site officially goes live... 
>  
> Cheers, 
> Jason. 
>  
>  
> ------------------------------ 
> v1 consulting 
> 1730 20th street, lower unit 
> san francisco, ca 94107 usa 
>  
> +1.415.642.2808  office.us 
> +1.415.823.5353  mobile.us 
> +1.603.697.8394  efax.us 
>  
> +44.7092.21.1995 mobile.ec 
>  
> http://www.v1c.net/ 
> mailto:jason at v1c.net 
> ------------------------------ 
>  
>  
> --------------------------------------- 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including 
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: 
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !  
>  
>  



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Mon Nov  6 17:30:48 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Mon Nov  6 17:30:48 2000
Subject: [thelist] Having FTP problems. Suggestions?
References: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3C3@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>
Message-ID: <3A073EA1.55CF563A@sam-i-am.com>

you should check out FTP Voyager. (http://www.ftpvoyager.com/)
It has a synchronize feature that is very powerful - it'll compare local
and remote directories and upload only those files that need uploading
(based on modified dates or size). It can do this recursively on
subdirectories. 

Sam

> The problem is this: The website has dozens of folders. Each folder has a
> numberof HTM, HTML, CFM and image files. I can't seem to find a way in the
> WS_FTP Pro program to exclude certain folders, or to prompt me to PUT only
> certain folders. Is there a way? Can another program accomplish this? I
> recently updated a library item, thereby updating all HTM pages, and need a
> way to move all at once. How??
>



From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Mon Nov  6 17:40:33 2000
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Mon Nov  6 17:40:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] [ASP] Need some help saving a record SOLVED
References: <001f01c04777$6ae44900$d6e6869f@mpgalvin> <005501c04778$3d643980$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop> <002b01c04785$7d4d1500$8de3869f@mpgalvin> <00ba01c04786$6c6015c0$487b5acf@mwardenlaptop> <000001c047e1$5a6bc5c0$10e3869f@mpgalvin> <021501c0483b$5c4574e0$597b5acf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <001b01c0484b$85772920$02e3869f@mpgalvin>

Yeah, I made a bit of an FU on the first try.  It worked fine for one
certain filter, but screwed up at all other times.

So, I got this instead:

set filter
dim fieldname
loop while not EOF
    fieldname = "skilldesc" & adoRS("skillcode")
    adors("description") = Request.QueryString(fieldname)
    Update
    MoveNext
end loop

Works like a charm (again), but this time all I'm doing it re-creating the
unique fieldname ("skilldesc"+code) and then using that to fill the
description.  If the code of the current record in the RS doesn't match the
code used to name the field in the form, nothing happens.

I tell ya, if the A-team had had me on their team, well, they'd have still
been held in a hut with all the parts required to make a tank, but their ASP
files would have worked really well too!

m.

----- Original Message -----
From: Warden, Matt <mwarden at odyssey-design.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] [ASP] Need some help saving a record SOLVED


| > set filter on database to category code
| > dim fieldname, n
| > n = 1
| > loop
| >     fieldname = "skilldesc" & cstr(n)
| >     recordset.description = Request.QueryString(fieldname)
| >     n=n+1
| >     adors.Update
| >     adors.MoveNext
| > end loop
|
| are you not assuming that there are records starting at 1 and going on
from
| there hitting each integer? And I don't see how the loop ever stops... how
| would you know when to stop the loop?
|
| > (It does of course make the assumption that the order of the fields on
the
| > posting form are the same as the order of the records in the db.  Is
this a
| > horrible assumption to make?)
|
| Maybe, maybe not. Just don't delete any records ;-)
|
|
|
| --
| mattwarden
| mattwarden.com
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|




From seth at sethbienek.com  Mon Nov  6 19:47:45 2000
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Mon Nov  6 19:47:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF Developers Conference
In-Reply-To: <01A056931BA6D011AE630000F84A8012056FD129@kscmbs41.ksc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEBOCOAA.seth@sethbienek.com>

Hi Katie,

I'm getting a drinking party together for tomorrow night.  Interested?
Don't really have firm plans, but so far it's some guys (and gal) from
Stonebridge (where I work) and Marlene Bruce and whoever else from Evolt
that I can get ahold of..  We have a pretty fun bunch, lemme know if you're
interested.

If you (and whoever else) would like to join us, call me on the celly --
972-814-7628,
or leave a message at my room --202-328-2000 Room #2208.  My cell phone
seems to be kind of hit and miss up here.

Take Care,

Seth

------------------------------
Seth Bienek
Solutions Development Manager
Stonebridge Technologies, Inc.
972.455.7294 tel
972.404.9754 fax
------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Howell, Katie
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:40 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CF Developers Conference
>
>
> I'll be there.  Plan on attending CF_Underground too!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Evans [mailto:chris at fuseware.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:38 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CF Developers Conference
>
>
> Is anybody heading out to the CF developers conference in DC next
> week, and
> would be interested in getting a few beers?  Maybe a small evolt
> gathering?
>
>
> Chris Evans
> chris at fuseware.com
> http://www.fuseware.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From seth.bienek at sbti.com  Mon Nov  6 19:49:08 2000
From: seth.bienek at sbti.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Mon Nov  6 19:49:08 2000
Subject: [thelist] Washington, D.C.
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIEEBOCOAA.seth.bienek@sbti.com>

Is anyone else here in DC, for the Allaire conference or otherwise?  We are
organizing a drinking party for tomorrow night.  If you're here (or can be
;), call me on the celly -- 972-814-7628, or leave a message at my
room --202-328-2000 Room #2208.  My cell phone
seems to be kind of hit and miss up here.

Seth

------------------------------
Seth Bienek
Solutions Development Manager
Stonebridge Technologies, Inc.
972.455.7294 tel
972.404.9754 fax
------------------------------




From seth at sethbienek.com  Mon Nov  6 19:54:15 2000
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Mon Nov  6 19:54:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF Developers Conference
In-Reply-To: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEBOCOAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIKEBOCOAA.seth@sethbienek.com>

Oops.  That goes for all y'all too.  :)

Seth

> If you (and whoever else) would like to join us, call me on the celly --
> 972-814-7628,
> or leave a message at my room --202-328-2000 Room #2208.  My cell phone
> seems to be kind of hit and miss up here.




From comitque at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  6 19:56:57 2000
From: comitque at hotmail.com (Andrew Martin)
Date: Mon Nov  6 19:56:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
In-Reply-To: <20001107014928.DD5B06BA4E@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <KHEDIKEONJPOEMIGKMHKMEPHCCAA.comitque@hotmail.com>

is there a way to download an AOL 3.0 browser or emulator?  Or do I just
have to guess what it'll look like?




From bharoche at usa.net  Mon Nov  6 21:31:43 2000
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Mon Nov  6 21:31:43 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
References: <KHEDIKEONJPOEMIGKMHKMEPHCCAA.comitque@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c0486b$456ac6a0$5d96ccd1@desktop>

AOL has an ftp server which has old browsers, but if I remember right it
doesn't have v. 3.  If you have access to a Win95b machine, that OS came
with v. 3 bundled.

Here's a link that also might help:

http://webmaster.info.aol.com/




From steve at newmediacreations.com  Mon Nov  6 21:36:17 2000
From: steve at newmediacreations.com (Steven Stalzer)
Date: Mon Nov  6 21:36:17 2000
Subject: [thelist] mSQL data lose/NULL Records
Message-ID: <200011070336.WAA22298@gtei2.bellatlantic.net>

While we seem to be talking about SQL issues, here is a tough one I've been
dealing with.

We have a mSQL database which is populated with information about web activity
on our website using the msql Perl module. We've had the system set up to record
activity for a few weeks now. We have started to notice that NULL records are
appearing in various places in the tables (i.e. all fields for the record are
NULL), and when this happens, it seems to be clobbering existing records. There
are two things which are weird about this: first of all, we never create records
under any circumstance in which all fields are null; secondly, the tables are
usually defined so that at least one of the fields is set to NOT NULL, so even
if we wanted to put NULLS in there, we wouldn't be able to. Here's a bit of a
dump so you can see what I mean (notice that the records for cookie_id, where
cookie_id >= 10017 and <=10054 are gone - they were THERE on a dump just 3 days
ago):

CREATE TABLE User_ID (
  cookie_id INT NOT NULL,
  last_session_ts INT,
  last_srch_req INT,
  last_merch_id TEXT(12),
  first_session_ts INT,
  first_referral INT,
  last_ipaddress CHAR(15),
  reserved01 INT,
  reserved02 INT,
  reserved03 INT,
  reserved04 INT,
  reserved05 INT,
  reserved06 INT,
  reserved07 INT
) \g

CREATE UNIQUE  INDEX u_idx ON User_ID (
 cookie_id
) \g

CREATE SEQUENCE ON User_ID STEP 1 VALUE 13344 \g


#
# Dumping data for table 'User_ID'
#

###### SNIP #######
INSERT INTO User_ID  VALUES
(10015,2386,0,'',170,16,'216.67.67.70',NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL)\g
INSERT INTO User_ID  VALUES
(10016,171,0,'papa',171,22,'199.173.8.182',NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL)\g
INSERT INTO User_ID  VALUES
(NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL)\g
INSERT INTO User_ID  VALUES
(10055,270,0,'',270,14,'207.162.143.51',NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL)\g
INSERT INTO User_ID  VALUES
(10056,272,0,'',271,0,'24.91.194.72',NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL)\g
###### SNIP #######

It seems impossible that we are somehow inserting those NULLS, but if anyone
knows of a circumstance in which NULLS can in fact be inserted into fields
defined as NOT NULL, I'd be all ears. It looks to me like the database is
getting corrupted by some other force. We are hosting our site and database
virtually (UNIX), and I have yet to be able to convince anyone at their tech
support center that in fact this is their problem, rather than ours. Anyone have
any insight or experience with this?

Many thanks.
--
Steven Stalzer
www.townvalues.com
New Media Creations, Inc.





From djc at five2one.org  Mon Nov  6 21:37:04 2000
From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Nov  6 21:37:04 2000
Subject: [thelist] [Fwd: Would like to post freelance opportunity in DC area]
Message-ID: <3A0777D8.4DC75C9C@five2one.org>


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Would like to post freelance opportunity in DC area
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:37:39 EST
From: SAWenick at aol.com
To: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

hello:

My name is Steve Wenick and I am a long-time lurker in this list.  
Additionally I am sole proprietor of Reallynet Design & Services,
providing 
web design services to businesses and organizations in the DC area.  I
have 
an immediate need to hire a freelance web developer for help on a
potential 
contract.  Is this an appropriate post to your list?  

Steve W.
<A HREF="www.reallynet.com">reallynet</A>  >  it's time you got on the 
net...really!



From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Tue Nov  7 00:00:53 2000
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Tue Nov  7 00:00:53 2000
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 07-Nov-00
Message-ID: <200011070600.AAA13019@poet.oracular.com>


evolt.org headlines for 07-Nov-00

IBM relaunch browser for the blind
http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&catid=21&cid=3685


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From lisa at koolfish.com  Tue Nov  7 01:26:00 2000
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew)
Date: Tue Nov  7 01:26:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE:Translations
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAOEJACBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

> At 12:26 +0100 02/10/2000, Richard H. Morris wrote:
> >does anyone have
> >any experience and advice on how to get the translated material
> incorporated
> >into a web site?

try http://webtechniques.com/archives/2000/09/yunker/

The article is called speaking in Charsets, building a multilingual web
site.
Hope that helps
Lisa.




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  7 01:26:05 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Nov  7 01:26:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] mSQL data lose/NULL Records
References: <200011070336.WAA22298@gtei2.bellatlantic.net>
Message-ID: <3A0784D9.E7D082B3@Baratta.com>

Steve....

If you have the option, move to mySQL. Its 1000% better. I've used both and have
found mySQL a ton better. Have you tried dropping your indexes and rebuilding them?
How much total data are you holding in your tables? Maybe you should have the logs
dumped to a text file, then parsed and inserted into the tables on a daily basis. 

Good Luck.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From lisa at koolfish.com  Tue Nov  7 03:59:14 2000
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew)
Date: Tue Nov  7 03:59:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] blending 2 photographs together so you can not see the edges
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAKEJBCBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Can anyone point me in the right direction please.
Using Photoshop, if you have a series of images in a row all joined
together, how do you get rid of the joining line, especially if the images
are quite different colours.
Thanks
Lisa.




From lizlawson at charitycards.co.uk  Tue Nov  7 04:15:32 2000
From: lizlawson at charitycards.co.uk (Liz Lawson)
Date: Tue Nov  7 04:15:32 2000
Subject: [thelist] blending 2 photographs together so you can not see the edges
Message-ID: <00b401c048a3$ae298680$03c812ac@liz>

1) quick, dirty 'n' nasty

i) is your row on a tranparent layer ? check "preserve transparency". If
it's on a flat background, select the row only, cut it out and paste it on a
new layer, check "preserve transparency".

ii) make a selection around a joining line and feather it (ctrl+D), then use
the guassian blur filter to blur the join


2) a much better way, but you'll lose some of the width of each image

i) cut up your row so that each image is on a separate layer

ii) rearrange the row with an overlap between each image

iii) add a layer mask to each layer except the lowest one by click on the
shaded circle button at the bottom  of the layers palette

iv) for each layer, make sure the layer mask rather than the layer itself is
active by clicking on the mask in the layer list (the right hand rectangle).
You can tell because where there is usually an eye to the right of thelayer
in the layer list, there will be the shaded circle icon. Now, painting black
on the mask wil make the layer transprent and reveal the one below. (white
will paint the upper layer back again). Use the airbrush the merge the two
images with complete control.

(You can get rid os the mask by drgging it to the wastebasket at the bottom
of the layers palette, or switch it off temporarily by shift-clicking it.)




HTH

Liz


>Can anyone point me in the right direction please.
>Using Photoshop, if you have a series of images in a row all joined
>together, how do you get rid of the joining line, especially if the images
>are quite different colours.
>Thanks
>Lisa.
>
>






From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Tue Nov  7 04:53:37 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Tue Nov  7 04:53:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace. css?
Message-ID: <80256990.003B89A4.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

I wonder if applying the space-after property to <form> would do the
trick, as it does with <p>...

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?



I'm totally annoyed with the way IE (and NS too for all I know) puts a blank
line after a </form> tag.  It looks like </form> can't be used as a CSS
selector.. is there any other easy way around this?


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From lizlawson at charitycards.co.uk  Tue Nov  7 06:02:36 2000
From: lizlawson at charitycards.co.uk (Liz Lawson)
Date: Tue Nov  7 06:02:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] blending 2 photographs together so you can not see the edges
Message-ID: <000a01c048b2$9a1dd9c0$03c812ac@liz>

>ii) make a selection around a joining line and feather it (ctrl+D), then
use
>the guassian blur filter to blur the join


oops

crtl+alt+D for feather (sorry)

Liz





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Tue Nov  7 07:16:37 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Tue Nov  7 07:16:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML
Message-ID: <80256990.0048877B.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Word 97's "Save as HTML" isn't too bad - the only thing to watch out for are
<font> tags, which are easy to strip out.

Although again, this works best with simple text pages, and then you stick
the output into the HTML template of your choice either manually or with
a simple CMS such as the one we have on thesite.

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] Word to HTML



turns out all the conversions work a lot better with a word 98 document.
Lists are lists etc.. Not so in Office2000
Don't know why.

> Actually, the best Word->HTML I've seen is done by FrontPage
> (Word & FP 97/8 - ymmv on 2k versions). As long as it's just
> a simple text page, then there's not much for FP to screw with.

that's true.. I used to keep it installed for just that reason.
Might come back to that one.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Tue Nov  7 07:29:18 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Tue Nov  7 07:29:18 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz>

Hi all,

I'm using an Access database for a site (with CF, not that it matters), and 
noticed something funny happen when I deleted some records in a table.

Deleting the records was fine, but when a new record was added later one or 
two of the deleted records reappeared.  I deleted them again, but the 
reappeared again when more records were added.

This freaked me out - if it happens when the site is "live" it could be a 
real disaster.

Is this a known problem with Access?  Obviously it is a problem with the 
table index getting corrupt, but does anyone know what might have caused 
that to happen?

One solution I might use is to never delete records, and just use a 
"deleted" boolean field - but this is a pain, complicates every query on 
the site, and would waste space.  Perhaps a "deleted" field is a good way 
to design databases regardless - i'm not sure.

Any insight at all appreciated.

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Tue Nov  7 07:50:39 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Tue Nov  7 07:50:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6967@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Oliver,


Yeah ... sometimes keeping a 'deleted' field is a good idea... but it isn't
always required!

However, the only guess I have for your problem is that maybe you are not
closing the recordset after the deletes ... before doing the new inserts....

Pretty lame ... but it's the only guess I have this early in the day!

HTH,


Ron L.

-----Original Message-----
From: Oliver Lineham [mailto:oliver at lineham.co.nz]
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access

Deleting the records was fine, but when a new record was added later one or 
two of the deleted records reappeared.  I deleted them again, but the 
reappeared again when more records were added.



From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Tue Nov  7 08:01:39 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:01:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6967@cceexc03.cce.cpqc
 orp.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001108030000.025694e8@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 07:50 7/11/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>However, the only guess I have for your problem is that maybe you are not
>closing the recordset after the deletes ... before doing the new inserts....

What do you mean?   I always use a <cftransaction> if that's an equivalent 
thing.

</ol>

ps 7.50am?  it's 3am here.

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Tue Nov  7 08:16:52 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:16:52 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6968@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Hmmmmm ....


Sorry ... I'm not that experienced with CF ... I've used CF for displaying
data [select] ...  but I've only used ASP for db deletes and updates. (Which
is where I've always made sure to close out my recorsets.)

In my reading, I thought the <cftransaction> was for wrapping multiple table
activities into a single bundle that would 'commit' or 'rollback' as a
package ....  {Or maybe I just kind of assumed that -- since that's what
everyone else uses 'transactions' for!}

If that's true ... it's sounding as though you are hitting some kind of
err/failure before you reach the end of the complete transaction ... in
which case everything that was bundled into that transaction would be
'rolled back' or 'undone' ....

e.g.
<start transaction>
(1) delete some record from table A -- success!
(2) insert a record into table B -- success!
(3) modify a record in table C -- success!
(4) delete a record from table D -- failure!
<end transaction>

If the above vaguely resembles what you have ... then YEP ... the record
deletion in table A will be 'rolled back' -- as if it never happened ...
because the entire transaction has to succeed or fail as an entire unit.

Does that help any?

Ron L.

<Time is transient, illusory, and irrelevant .... tired is tired! ....
Caution! ... Brain cells starting to warm up!>     ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Oliver Lineham [mailto:oliver at lineham.co.nz]
Subject: RE: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access

What do you mean?   I always use a <cftransaction> if that's an equivalent 
thing.
ps 7.50am?  it's 3am here.



From bobd at members.evolt.org  Tue Nov  7 08:22:01 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:22:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML
In-Reply-To: <80256990.0048877B.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <B62D7A3F.A677%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/7/00 5:52 AM, martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com at
martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:

> 
> Word 97's "Save as HTML" isn't too bad - the only thing to watch out for are
> <font> tags, which are easy to strip out.

Here's a regular expression that will do just that:

Kill Font Tags
<[\/]*FONT[^>]*>

Replace with nothing (works in BBEdit at least.)

 IIRC, Word 97 uses upper case for tags.  I've used this pattern many times
- it's in my saved grep patterns.

bob


-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Tue Nov  7 08:22:39 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:22:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6968@cceexc03.cce.cpqc
 orp.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001108032047.01806268@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 08:17 7/11/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>If the above vaguely resembles what you have ... then YEP ... the record
>deletion in table A will be 'rolled back' -- as if it never happened ...
>because the entire transaction has to succeed or fail as an entire unit.

Nice try, but I don't think that's it, because

1. The problem occurs even if the records are delete by hand using Access 
itself

2. After the records are deleted, Any number of queries to the database 
show that the records don't exist. It's not until a new record is added, 
that they appear back again.

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From aphelan at confederationc.on.ca  Tue Nov  7 08:24:19 2000
From: aphelan at confederationc.on.ca (aphelan (Andrea Phelan))
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:24:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
Message-ID: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E30@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>

As a self taught web developer, I'm interested in aquiring some sort of
certification to  help uphold my qualifications to potential employers.
I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience with brainbench
certifications and how useful they have been to you.
Also how useful cert prep courses have been.
I don't want to challenge any exams until I am certain I can achieve a
'master' status, and I'd like to know what the best approach to this might
be.
Thanks!

Annie



From muinar at gmx.net  Tue Nov  7 08:37:33 2000
From: muinar at gmx.net (Mike S. Krischker)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:37:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] defining links in admin pages
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001106105602.009f08e0@mail.muinar.com>

Hello

A customer wants to define links in his webpage texts. He
has access to a password protected area where he can edit
the texts which are stored in a sql database.

I could teach him to wrap the HREF tag around the links,
but I don't like the idea of customers formatting the text
blocks themselves.

What are the options? I thought about storing the linked
words/phrases in a separate database table and then dynamically
replacing 'link' by <A HREF "link.htm" class="roll">link</A>
when the webpage is requested from the server.

Are there better concepts?

Any input appreciated.

TIA - Mike

Mike S. Krischker Muinar Internet Studios
Hd.Office CH-4009 Basel Heinrichsgasse 19
Bk.Office F-06300 Nice 19, Rue de la Pr?fecture
+41(61) 273 58 71 Fax +41(61) 273 58 70
http://muinar.com mailto:msk at muinar.com





From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Tue Nov  7 08:47:33 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:47:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6969@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Sorry.

<shrugs>

Here is an Access link that might be useful -- I poked around a tad ... but
didn't find anything quick ...

http://www.athree.com/cgi-bin/discussion/wwwthreads.pl


<flashback>Dang! ... Sounds almost like db3! ... where it wasn't enough to
'delete' a record ... you had to 'pack' the database after 'deleting' ... to
make sure the record was really really gone!</flashback>

Good Luck!

Ron L.


-----Original Message-----
From: Oliver Lineham [mailto:oliver at lineham.co.nz]
Subject: RE: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access

Nice try, but I don't think that's it, because

1. The problem occurs even if the records are delete by hand using Access 
itself

2. After the records are deleted, Any number of queries to the database 
show that the records don't exist. It's not until a new record is added, 
that they appear back again.




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Nov  7 08:48:58 2000
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:48:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <01c048c9$c8be1260$fc48149a@default>

> ... I thought the <cftransaction> was for wrapping multiple table
> activities into a single bundle that would 'commit' or 'rollback' as a
> package

hi ron

that's a good description

db2 has a concept called "package" but that's different, sorta

and i hate the word "bundle" because of software vendors

anyhow, it's clear what you mean


oliver, the answer to why records are appearing after they've been deleted
is obvious...

... thing is, it ain't obvious to me   :o)

try to narrow it down by isolating the culprit

run everything from the query window in access and i bet you won't be able
to reproduce the problem (if you can, please send me your mdb file
offlist... i gotta see this for myself, eh)

maybe your mdb is set up as read only on the server -- sorry, i don't know
how to check this, i'm not a sysadmin

if you get an okay return code when in fact the server couldn't touch the
mdb, then it would  look like the delete happened

try doing a query on the deleted records immediately after deleting them
and before adding the others

and ron's right about the delete field --

<tip>
do not add a "delete" field to the data model unless compelled -- and being
compelled has nothing to do with getting it to work now, but rather for the
purpose of data retention for later reporting, e.g. recalculating an amount
as of a specific point in history
</tip>


rudy
r937.com






From stef at nota-bene.org  Tue Nov  7 08:59:55 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Tue Nov  7 08:59:55 2000
Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML
In-Reply-To: <B62D7A3F.A677%bobd@members.evolt.org>
References: <80256990.0048877B.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001107155805.009e7d40@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: Bob Davis || date: 09:22 07/11/2000 -0500]
> > Word 97's "Save as HTML" isn't too bad - the only thing to watch out 
> for are
> > <font> tags, which are easy to strip out.
>
>Here's a regular expression that will do just that:
>
>Kill Font Tags
><[\/]*FONT[^>]*>

Or if you use DreamWeaver, choose Commands - Clean up Word HTML, then Clean 
Up HTML and delete all FONT tags.
I always do that.
Nice and swift killing, the private eye thought. ;-)


s t e f




From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Tue Nov  7 09:04:01 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Tue Nov  7 09:04:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: </form> without whitespace.  css?
In-Reply-To: <20001107014917.0DA4C1BDAA@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000101c048ce$b8372b20$a401410a@tracyc>

One quick fix that has worked for me<although may be a hack>, is to put the
</form> outside the </td>
cmt
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> From: "Tab Alleman" <talleman at autobex.com>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.  css?
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:15:47 -0500
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Well I tried putting both { margin: 0px ; } AND { margin-bottom:
> 0px ; } in
> my stylesheet, and neither had any effect.  For good measure I also tried
> values of -30 for both.  Still no effect.  I'm viewing the page
> in IE 5.0 if
> that matters.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>




From twebb at dynamicinst.com  Tue Nov  7 09:07:23 2000
From: twebb at dynamicinst.com (Tom Webb)
Date: Tue Nov  7 09:07:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
In-Reply-To: <20001106230212.MKCE26316.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localh
 ost>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001107070615.00969220@mailserver>

Haven't had that experience.  All my customers have very pleased with 
CIHost and their service.  I have never found their servers to be slow.  I 
use Perl exclusively so I can't speak to the PHP issue.  However, every 
Host has some problems, I am saying overall my experience with CIHost has 
been positive for my E-Commerce clients and found that CIHost has met their 
needs at a reasonable price.  One anecdotal negative experience should not 
write off the entire service.  Try doing anything with Verio.
Tom Webb

At 06:03 PM 11/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't mean to start anything, but I've worked with sites on CIHost 
>before and so have several people I know. Their technical support and 
>their speed are both extremely slow.
>
>I'm not sure of their prices lately, but the latest victim (that I know) 
>of their appeal has told me they are reasonable. However, given how slow 
>their servers have been in my experience, coupled with the fact that their 
>technical support is slow and usually ineffectual, I couldn't recommend them.
>
>Anecdote: I wrote a small PHP upload script for the friend  in question 
>and we discovered that the upload limit for PHP was 2 MB. That setting is 
>easily changeable in php.ini. Perl, on the other hand, was set with an 
>upload limit of 10 MB.
>
>Tech support refused to change that setting for parity between the two 
>environments, saying it would 'break scripts' (not bloody likely), and 
>that we should consider a dedicated host if we want to change it. I've 
>administered a PHP installation before and changing the upload limit will 
>not break scripts. Most likely the admins are using default Red Hat 
>installs and rpms and have no idea how to change it.
>
>Do you want to host with someone like that?
>
>On Monday, November 6, 2000, at 09:34 AM, Tom Webb wrote:
>
> > We use CIHOST at www.cihost.com.  They have the best prices and best 
> service.
> > Tom Webb
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From fins5901 at hal.humberc.on.ca  Tue Nov  7 09:09:59 2000
From: fins5901 at hal.humberc.on.ca (S Finley)
Date: Tue Nov  7 09:09:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.30.0011070928320.114588-100000@hal.humberc.on.ca>

Not sure if this will help - but I've used Access extensivly - depending
on what your doing and the order of operations you might have to 'commit'
your sql transaction before performing another - also flushing the cache
may help.


On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Oliver Lineham wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm using an Access database for a site (with CF, not that it matters), and
> noticed something funny happen when I deleted some records in a table.
>
> Deleting the records was fine, but when a new record was added later one or
> two of the deleted records reappeared.  I deleted them again, but the
> reappeared again when more records were added.
>
> This freaked me out - if it happens when the site is "live" it could be a
> real disaster.
>
> Is this a known problem with Access?  Obviously it is a problem with the
> table index getting corrupt, but does anyone know what might have caused
> that to happen?
>
> One solution I might use is to never delete records, and just use a
> "deleted" boolean field - but this is a pain, complicates every query on
> the site, and would waste space.  Perhaps a "deleted" field is a good way
> to design databases regardless - i'm not sure.
>
> Any insight at all appreciated.
>
> </ol>
>
> ____________________________________________________
>      v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
>   po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
>   phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Tue Nov  7 09:11:34 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Tue Nov  7 09:11:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <01c048c9$c8be1260$fc48149a@default>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001108035333.017ef148@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 09:48 7/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>try to narrow it down by isolating the culprit
>run everything from the query window in access and i bet you won't be able
>to reproduce the problem (if you can, please send me your mdb file
>offlist... i gotta see this for myself, eh)

the problem is, it isn't terribly reproduceable.  sometimes it happens, 
sometimes it doesn't.  doesn't seem to matter whether the delete comes from 
a query window, or an ODBC SQL query.

i put it down to the flaky mdb format, or a "mildly" corrupt database.

>maybe your mdb is set up as read only on the server -- sorry, i don't know
>how to check this, i'm not a sysadmin

nope, that's not it.

>try doing a query on the deleted records immediately after deleting them
>and before adding the others

when the problem happens, after the record is deleted it appears to be 
deleted.  it doesn't show up in any queries.  you can add/remove things 
from other tables, or modify existing records in the same table - and the 
record stays deleted.  go and add a new record, and (sometimes) the record 
reappears.

i deleted the whole table and recreated it, and the problem hasn't happened 
since.  but it's got me worried enough.

><tip>
>do not add a "delete" field to the data model unless compelled -- and being
>compelled has nothing to do with getting it to work now, but rather for the
>purpose of data retention for later reporting, e.g. recalculating an amount
>as of a specific point in history
></tip>

the table is of job vacancies.  there are showdate and expiredate fields, 
describing the time period for the vacancy's display.  the "correct" way 
for a vacancy to be pulled off the site early is to amend the expiredate to 
read yesterday (allows us to determine how long any vacancy ever on the 
site, was displayed for).

given that design, the only truly "deleted" records would be ones with junk 
data that never were and never will be displayed on the site (showdate and 
expiredate fields with the same date would imply it was displayed for a 
day, and a showdate that is after the expiredate is whack - i'd rather 
avoid that kludge).

so rudy, can you think of a good justification for marking records as 
deleted rather than actually deleting them?   (so i don't feel so dirty for 
using a "deleted" field purely to safeguard against the Access problem)

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From xslf at xslf.com  Tue Nov  7 09:58:00 2000
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Tue Nov  7 09:58:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] MySQL & perl question
Message-ID: <014101c048d3$b4e24180$dc9bfea9@xslf>

The Bool website ( http://www.bool.co.il ) has quite a few message boards
running using custom-made perl & MySQL software (A sample message board can
be found here:
 http://www.bool.co.il/cgi-bin/bu.cgi?page=forum&forum=22343 )

We would like to implement a feature that will prevent users from "flooding"
message boards with the same message over a short period of time (a few
minutes).

However, we are not sure how to do that. Anyone have any ideas? We currently
have about 200-300 messages posted daily, and the numbers are growing all
the time.

Thanks,
Shoshannah Forbes
--
Hebrew services for site owners http://www.bool.co.il
Moderator, site builder forum http://forums.nana.co.il/forum.asp?id=17
Personal site: http://www.forbes.co.il




From sebastien at oven.com  Tue Nov  7 10:40:03 2000
From: sebastien at oven.com (Seb Barre)
Date: Tue Nov  7 10:40:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] MySQL & perl question
In-Reply-To: <014101c048d3$b4e24180$dc9bfea9@xslf>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001107113311.02cd0dd0@pop.oven.com>

At 05:59 PM 11/7/2000 +0200, you wrote:
>The Bool website ( http://www.bool.co.il ) has quite a few message boards
>running using custom-made perl & MySQL software (A sample message board can
>be found here:
>  http://www.bool.co.il/cgi-bin/bu.cgi?page=forum&forum=22343 )
>
>We would like to implement a feature that will prevent users from "flooding"
>message boards with the same message over a short period of time (a few
>minutes).
>
>However, we are not sure how to do that. Anyone have any ideas? We currently
>have about 200-300 messages posted daily, and the numbers are growing all
>the time.

One option is to impose an artificial limit on postings/minute(s) based on 
the originating IP address.  It adds a bit of overhead when submitting the 
post, but if you're recording the time of the post and the poster's IP (in 
Perl use the %ENV array and check $ENV{REMOTE_ADDR}, this is supplied by 
the web server) in your database, it could be done with one SQL query 
("SELECT postid FROM posts WHERE ip = $ENV{REMOTE_ADDR} AND post_time < 
$time" - or something like that), with the returned rows count compared 
against the max allowed posts per timeframe, and simply not saving the post 
if it exceeds your desired maximum.

Let me know if I'm not explaining myself properly, or email me off-list, 
and I'll be happy to elaborate.


--- -- -
Seb Barre - seb at oven.com
OVEN Digital Toronto
Work: 416-595-9750 x 222
Mobile: 416-254-5078
http://www.oven.com/




From n.d.b at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Nov  7 10:55:03 2000
From: n.d.b at blueyonder.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue Nov  7 10:55:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
References: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E30@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>
Message-ID: <009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5@harrypotter>

Hi Annie

AFAIK you can retake the exam after you've taken it.  I took the HTML one
and got Master status at it with no problem, I also took the ASP one and
passed that easily as well.  If you really want to get Master status then
you could have a handy reference book/document to hand - which kind of
defeats the point but does show that you can find information quickly :)

I don't know how much use Brainbench certification would be in getting a
job.  All of the interviews I've been to have asked for example URLs and
given tests on the spot, which removes the need for certification such as
Brainbenches.

Norman




From jaylard at equilon.com  Tue Nov  7 10:57:05 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Tue Nov  7 10:57:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace. css?
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC91@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Martin,

> I wonder if applying the space-after property to <form> would do the
> trick, as it does with <p>...

	You're talking about the CSS property which immediately precedes
"space-alien", right?? :) Where is "space-after" defined? Haven't seen that
one, I guess...

James Aylard



From mcmurd at ccaa.edu  Tue Nov  7 11:09:18 2000
From: mcmurd at ccaa.edu (Daniel McMurray)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:09:18 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5@harrypotter>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10011071204310.65181-100000@abraham.ccaa.edu>

To add to this, I was interviewed for a training position last may/june,
and they asked me if I had taken any certification tests.  When I asked if
Brainbench counted, they said "That's what we use, too."

So....it may be in the severe minority, but it is used for professional
purposes at least a little.

Hope this helps!
Dan

On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Norman Beresford wrote:

> Hi Annie
> 
> AFAIK you can retake the exam after you've taken it.  I took the HTML one
> and got Master status at it with no problem, I also took the ASP one and
> passed that easily as well.  If you really want to get Master status then
> you could have a handy reference book/document to hand - which kind of
> defeats the point but does show that you can find information quickly :)
> 
> I don't know how much use Brainbench certification would be in getting a
> job.  All of the interviews I've been to have asked for example URLs and
> given tests on the spot, which removes the need for certification such as
> Brainbenches.
> 
> Norman
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Nov  7 11:10:53 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:10:53 2000
Subject: [thelist] more forms and CSS --making boxes invisible
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F64B@gate.ti3.com>

I've been tasked with making text input boxes not look like text input
boxes, specifically, I gotta remove the border and make just the text inside
visible (its a read-only field, and we don't want users thinking they should
be trying to input to it).

I got IE behaving:

<style type="text/css">
input.disabledbox {background-color:#ffffff;
		color: #000000;
		border-style:none;
		font-weight:bold;
		}
</style>

...

<input 
	type="text"
	name="dis"
	class="disabledbox"
	disabled="True"
	onFocus="this.blur();">


so can I get Netscape to behave and remove the box border? Or does NN still
puke on this portion of CSS? --and IE still has the font color gray because
the item is "disabled" --it seems to ignore the color setting in the class
....

T-T-T-TIA
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/



From aphelan at confederationc.on.ca  Tue Nov  7 11:17:11 2000
From: aphelan at confederationc.on.ca (aphelan (Andrea Phelan))
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:17:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification > Options?
Message-ID: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E33@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>

What options for certification are available then? I know alot of Web
Developers are self taught, as I am, is there any standard cert. at all?

>So....it may be in the severe minority, but it is used for professional
purposes at least a little.



From sebastien at oven.com  Tue Nov  7 11:24:24 2000
From: sebastien at oven.com (Seb Barre)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:24:24 2000
Subject: [thelist] Servlet/Java hosting help?
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001107121515.00acf828@pop.oven.com>

Hi all,

I'm doing a bit of personal research into hosting providers that can host 
custom Java servlets with database access, and possibly (this is the tough 
one), custom server-side Java programs (basically a socket server for 
real-time communication with a client application).

The second one is really what I'm looking for, but based on my research so 
far, I may have to settle for a servlet approach because I have yet to find 
a hosting provider that will let me run my own server application on their 
box, even if it's Java-based and runs in the JVM's security sandbox.

Price is a minor concern, but I'll consider anything at this point.  The 
only other criteria is scaleability.  I could host this on my own server, 
but major traffic would bring it to it's knees rather quickly, so I'm 
looking for enterprise-level stuff preferably.

Any suggestions are welcome, I'm not having much luck on my own..

Thanks!

--- -- -
Seb Barre - seb at oven.com
OVEN Digital Toronto
Work: 416-595-9750 x 222
Mobile: 416-254-5078
http://www.oven.com/




From steve at newmediacreations.com  Tue Nov  7 11:24:50 2000
From: steve at newmediacreations.com (Steven Stalzer)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:24:50 2000
Subject: [thelist] mSQL data lose/NULL Records
Message-ID: <200011071724.MAA17968@gtei1.bellatlantic.net>

I know we have mySQL and thought about upgrading, but I'm not sure if all of the
Perl scripts would have to be rewritten yet. I *THINK* the mysql Perl API is
very similar, but not sure if its available on our host. Have you found mySQL to
be more reliable? Our database right now is only about 1.2 MB, and I understand
that the possibility for corruption in mSQL is high when it gets over 10MB or
so, which won't be for several months.

I have dumped, cleaned up, dropped all tables and indices, and rebuilt the
database already once, but not sure this is really a good long term solution.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has experience with corrupted
mSQL or mySQL databases, and/or can compare the two for reliability. I realize
that mySQL has significantly more functionality, but it's integrity of data I'm
most concerned with right now. Thanks.
--
Steven Stalzer, CTO
www.townvalues.com
New Media Creations, Inc.



----------

> If you have the option, move to mySQL. Its 1000% better. I've used both and
have
> found mySQL a ton better. Have you tried dropping your indexes and rebuilding
them?
> How much total data are you holding in your tables? Maybe you should have the
logs
> dumped to a text file, then parsed and inserted into the tables on a daily
basis. 



From bheerssen at iecommerce.net  Tue Nov  7 11:33:44 2000
From: bheerssen at iecommerce.net (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:33:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
References: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E30@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca> <009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5@harrypotter>
Message-ID: <3a083d0c$1@fuseware.com>

"Norman Beresford" <n.d.b at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5 at harrypotter...
> Hi Annie
>
> AFAIK you can retake the exam after you've taken it.

Yes, you can re-take the exam. However, the previous results will still be
available. There does not seem to be a way to specify which exam's results
to make public - its an all or nothing deal. So if you do take the exam
multiple times, a prospective employer can view the results of each exam
(should you make them public).

I guess that means that although you can take the exam multiple times, doing
so may not be to your advantage. Would you hire a guy that had to take the
HTML exam six times before getting a reasonable result?

Moral: study hard before taking the exam. Have your reference manuals handy
and know where to look in them for specific info before you start the exam.
Although the tests do not seem to be too hard, there is an excellent
possibility that they will cover some areas that you have yet to explore.


-- Bruce






From jaylard at equilon.com  Tue Nov  7 11:35:58 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:35:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] more forms and CSS --making boxes invisible
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC92@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

sgd,

> so can I get Netscape to behave and remove the box border? Or does NN
still
> puke on this portion of CSS? --and IE still has the font color gray
because
> the item is "disabled" --it seems to ignore the color setting in the class

	AFAIK, Netscape will not cooperate. With IE, try using the
"readonly" attribute instead of the "disabled" attribute.

hth,
James Aylard



From bheerssen at iecommerce.net  Tue Nov  7 11:43:42 2000
From: bheerssen at iecommerce.net (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Tue Nov  7 11:43:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] more forms and CSS --making boxes invisible
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F64B@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3a083eea$1@fuseware.com>

"Scott Dexter" <sgd at ti3.com> wrote in message
news:8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F64B at gate.ti3.com...
> I've been tasked with making text input boxes not look like text input
> boxes, specifically, I gotta remove the border and make just the text
inside
> visible (its a read-only field, and we don't want users thinking they
should
> be trying to input to it).
>

AFAIK, Netscape versions 4.x do not support css borders on text input boxes.
I wonder though, if it's a read-only field, why not simply use the disabled
attribute, or if borders and backgrounds are really a big deal, just display
the text without the input field? If you need a field in the form, you could
make it a hidden field.  By using plain text for display, and a hidden form
field for the value, you can circumvent all the display issues with input
fields in IE and NN.






From sam at sam-i-am.com  Tue Nov  7 12:10:13 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Tue Nov  7 12:10:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
References: <KHEDIKEONJPOEMIGKMHKMEPHCCAA.comitque@hotmail.com> <002d01c0486b$456ac6a0$5d96ccd1@desktop>
Message-ID: <3A084504.CFD8E057@sam-i-am.com>

for some reason I was under the impression that AOL automatically
upgraded its users to the new version?
(in which case backwards compatability for AOL is not such an issue)

But I also have this feeling that I've been dreadfully and horribly
wrong all this time :)

Sam

Bob Haroche wrote:
> 
> AOL has an ftp server which has old browsers, but if I remember right it
> doesn't have v. 3.  If you have access to a Win95b machine, that OS came
> with v. 3 bundled.
> 
> Here's a link that also might help:
> 
> http://webmaster.info.aol.com/



From gina at sitediva.com  Tue Nov  7 12:20:34 2000
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Tue Nov  7 12:20:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
In-Reply-To: <3A084504.CFD8E057@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <000201c048e7$803cfe20$6401a8c0@cinci.rr.com>

|for some reason I was under the impression that AOL automatically
|upgraded its users to the new version?
|(in which case backwards compatability for AOL is not such an issue)
|But I also have this feeling that I've been dreadfully and horribly
|wrong all this time :)

Sam,

You don't get upgraded to newer *versions* automatically, you must download
them. You can also install multiple versions of AOL on the same machine, I'm not
sure if the browser gets overwritten though.

AOL does however install these little updates from time to time for the
particular version you are using.

I might have an AOL3.0 installer around here somewhere. I'll look and let you
know if I find one.

Gina




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Tue Nov  7 12:24:55 2000
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Tue Nov  7 12:24:55 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
Message-ID: <001701c048e8$74c5b360$6ae0869f@mpgalvin>

How on earth do I sort a SELECT field?  Surely there's a SORTED=TRUE
property or something that I can attach to it.

Michael




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  7 12:54:03 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Nov  7 12:54:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] mSQL data lose/NULL Records
References: <200011071724.MAA17968@gtei1.bellatlantic.net>
Message-ID: <3A0848D3.21D2751@Baratta.com>

Steven Stalzer wrote:
> 
> I know we have mySQL and thought about upgrading, but I'm not sure if all of the
> Perl scripts would have to be rewritten yet. I *THINK* the mysql Perl API is
> very similar, but not sure if its available on our host. Have you found mySQL to
> be more reliable? Our database right now is only about 1.2 MB, and I understand
> that the possibility for corruption in mSQL is high when it gets over 10MB or
> so, which won't be for several months.

For what I do, there was no difference between using mSQL or mySQL. We currently have
one mSQL database left, its not hammered that hard - and I nightly drop the 3/4 of
the tables and rebuild them with new fresh data. Inserts are minimal on the other
1/3. 

My largest table is approx 425K rows. I don't have access to the actual db files, so
I don't know how large this is, but the ASCII data file is 14 Mb.

The performance is the biggest issue for us. Its horribly slow even with indexes.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From gina at sitediva.com  Tue Nov  7 12:55:48 2000
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Tue Nov  7 12:55:48 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
In-Reply-To: <000201c048e7$803cfe20$6401a8c0@cinci.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c048ec$6f350000$6401a8c0@cinci.rr.com>

|I might have an AOL3.0 installer around here somewhere.
|I'll look and let you know if I find one.
|Gina

Well, guess what--I found it ;) Old copy of AOL 3.0 for Windows. If anyone is
interested in it, let me know. I wrote Andrew offlist.

Gina




From talleman at autobex.com  Tue Nov  7 13:08:17 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:08:17 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
In-Reply-To: <001701c048e8$74c5b360$6ae0869f@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEEECMCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

If it's a dynamic field, and I'm sure it must be or you wouldn't need to ask
how to sort it, the only way I know is to sort the data before you use it to
create the field.. in other words, I don't think you can do that with html.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Galvin
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:28 PM
To: thelist
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field


How on earth do I sort a SELECT field?  Surely there's a SORTED=TRUE
property or something that I can attach to it.

Michael


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ppk at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov  7 13:10:02 2000
From: ppk at xs4all.nl (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:10:02 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re: more forms and CSS --making boxes invisible
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001107201202.008b8100@pop.xs4all.nl>

>I've been tasked with making text input boxes not look like text input
>boxes, specifically, I gotta remove the border and make just the text inside
>visible (its a read-only field, and we don't want users thinking they should
>be trying to input to it).

You're out of luck with Netscape 4. But why do you want to make an input
box at all if the user can't change it anyway?  If you need to send the
information to the server, use a INPUT TYPE="hidden". If it's just a
convenience for the user, use plain text.

ppk




From seb at admin.evolt.org  Tue Nov  7 13:31:45 2000
From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:31:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] MySQL & perl question
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001107113311.02cd0dd0@pop.oven.com>
Message-ID: <00a301c048f1$6788a320$ac32a8c0@issntdev57>

> >We would like to implement a feature that will prevent users from
"flooding"
> >message boards with the same message over a short period of time (a few
> >minutes).
> >
> >However, we are not sure how to do that. Anyone have any ideas? We
currently
> >have about 200-300 messages posted daily, and the numbers are growing all
> >the time.

Without the overhead of hitting the DB, when somebody posts, set a cookie
with an expiry of about 1 hour, and keep track of the number of posts in
that cookie. If the cookie already exists, just increment the counter in the
cookie.

When the number of posts/hour exceeds your limit, block the user until the
cookie expires.

Of course, if the user realises you're using cookies to flood, they could
just disable them. So you could require cookies. Up to you.

If you're using a server-side tech that supports sessions, you could just
track the #posts in a session variable.

Finally, rather than searching the posts themselves by user and time range,
you could just rotate hourly log files that track by user id/IP address and
#posts, and pattern match through them. Of course, this adds the overhead of
file handles.

Remember, tracking by IP means that you're going to end up tracking a lot of
people through firewalls. Especially AOL users, so you'll need to make
allowances for multiple users through the same IP.


Seb.






From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Tue Nov  7 13:37:54 2000
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:37:54 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
References: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEEECMCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
Message-ID: <003101c048f2$a956d6e0$8de2869f@mpgalvin>

Thanks.  Since it's on an ASP page, and I'm creating the select list from a
db, I just put an ORDER BY statement into my .open and Bob's my aunt's
husband.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tab Alleman <talleman at autobex.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field


| If it's a dynamic field, and I'm sure it must be or you wouldn't need to
ask
| how to sort it, the only way I know is to sort the data before you use it
to
| create the field.. in other words, I don't think you can do that with
html.
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
| [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Michael Galvin
| Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:28 PM
| To: thelist
| Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
|
|
| How on earth do I sort a SELECT field?  Surely there's a SORTED=TRUE
| property or something that I can attach to it.
|
| Michael
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|
|
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
|




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  7 13:43:21 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:43:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
References: <001701c048e8$74c5b360$6ae0869f@mpgalvin>
Message-ID: <3A085183.6D149F0@Baratta.com>

Michael Galvin wrote:
> 
> How on earth do I sort a SELECT field?  Surely there's a SORTED=TRUE
> property or something that I can attach to it.

No such animal in HTML.

You'll need to manually alphabetize or make sure you sort the data before writing the
HTML programmatically.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca  Tue Nov  7 13:53:11 2000
From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy)
Date: Tue Nov  7 13:53:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sorting a SELECT form field
Message-ID: <OF44F300D3.4DC0085E-ON85256990.006C3317@1.10.196>

> I don't think you can do that with html.

hi tab

not html, but javascript   ;o)

michael used an ORDER BY (yay!) to get the options into the desired 
sequence before displaying the page

if you want a client-side sort facility, feel free to steal my code here 
--

  http://r937.com/sortdropdown.html

there's a button which says Save Changes, it just displays a javascript 
alert to show the sorted items, it doesn't actually save anything (write 
me offlist if you want the cf code that does save)


rudy
r937.com



From icongarden at icongarden.com  Tue Nov  7 17:25:34 2000
From: icongarden at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Tue Nov  7 17:25:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
Message-ID: <20001107232555.WXCO2410.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>

Well, I'm glad that your experience with them has been good. Perhaps the servers we've been on have been located in a different facility and the people we talk to in the basement of the customer service department. I personally use FutureQuest - about the only drawback I can think of right now is that they don't yet offer dedicated hosts. Their service and speed, however, is amazing :)

Jake

On Tuesday, November 7, 2000, at 10:10 AM, Tom Webb wrote:

> Haven't had that experience.  All my customers have very pleased with  
> CIHost and their service.  I have never found their servers to be slow.  I  
> use Perl exclusively so I can't speak to the PHP issue.  However, every  
> Host has some problems, I am saying overall my experience with CIHost has  
> been positive for my E-Commerce clients and found that CIHost has met their  
> needs at a reasonable price.  One anecdotal negative experience should not  
> write off the entire service.  Try doing anything with Verio. 
> Tom Webb 
>  
> At 06:03 PM 11/6/00 -0500, you wrote: 
> >I don't mean to start anything, but I've worked with sites on CIHost  
> >before and so have several people I know. Their technical support and  
> >their speed are both extremely slow. 
> > 
> >I'm not sure of their prices lately, but the latest victim (that I know)  
> >of their appeal has told me they are reasonable. However, given how slow  
> >their servers have been in my experience, coupled with the fact that their  
> >technical support is slow and usually ineffectual, I couldn't recommend them. 
> > 
> >Anecdote: I wrote a small PHP upload script for the friend  in question  
> >and we discovered that the upload limit for PHP was 2 MB. That setting is  
> >easily changeable in php.ini. Perl, on the other hand, was set with an  
> >upload limit of 10 MB. 
> > 
> >Tech support refused to change that setting for parity between the two  
> >environments, saying it would 'break scripts' (not bloody likely), and  
> >that we should consider a dedicated host if we want to change it. I've  
> >administered a PHP installation before and changing the upload limit will  
> >not break scripts. Most likely the admins are using default Red Hat  
> >installs and rpms and have no idea how to change it. 
> > 
> >Do you want to host with someone like that? 
> > 
> >On Monday, November 6, 2000, at 09:34 AM, Tom Webb wrote: 
> > 
> > > We use CIHOST at www.cihost.com.  They have the best prices and best  
> > service. 
> > > Tom Webb 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >--------------------------------------- 
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including 
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: 
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>  
>  
> --------------------------------------- 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including 
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: 
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !  
>  
>  



From Ari_Herzog at Instron.com  Tue Nov  7 19:37:36 2000
From: Ari_Herzog at Instron.com (Herzog, Ari)
Date: Tue Nov  7 19:37:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
Message-ID: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3F6@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>

Strange question: When using WS_FTP PRO (before I corrected the error)
the program was inserting a WS_FTP.LOG file in every directory and
subdirectory on
my local mirrored website. Is there any command in Dreamweaver or some other
program
that can delete this in bulk without manually deleting it from every folder?

Thx

------------------------------------
Ari Herzog
Internet Webmaster
Instron Corporation
Tel:  781-575-5638
Fax: 781-575-5768
Email: ari_herzog at instron.com

Check out our website at http://www.instron.com



From Alessandro at bodytrends.com  Tue Nov  7 19:45:38 2000
From: Alessandro at bodytrends.com (Alessandro)
Date: Tue Nov  7 19:45:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
In-Reply-To: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3F6@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFGAIMKMGMNCMHKLIEEKDAAA.Alessandro@bodytrends.com>

Why not just run a start>find for ws_ftp.log, highlight all, hit delete.


Alessandro                
Alessandro at bodytrends.com  
http://www.bodytrends.com  


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Herzog, Ari
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:40 PM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
> 
> 
> Strange question: When using WS_FTP PRO (before I corrected the error)
> the program was inserting a WS_FTP.LOG file in every directory and
> subdirectory on
> my local mirrored website. Is there any command in Dreamweaver or 
> some other
> program
> that can delete this in bulk without manually deleting it from 
> every folder?
> 
> Thx
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Ari Herzog
> Internet Webmaster
> Instron Corporation
> Tel:  781-575-5638
> Fax: 781-575-5768
> Email: ari_herzog at instron.com
> 
> Check out our website at http://www.instron.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Wed Nov  8 00:00:51 2000
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Wed Nov  8 00:00:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 08-Nov-00
Message-ID: <200011080600.AAA23393@poet.oracular.com>


evolt.org headlines for 08-Nov-00

Pick one: standards or a browser
http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&catid=25&cid=3696


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From STEVENSJ at epa.nsw.gov.au  Wed Nov  8 00:08:01 2000
From: STEVENSJ at epa.nsw.gov.au (Stevens Jan)
Date: Wed Nov  8 00:08:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
Message-ID: <A62FF64D06ADD111A3EF0000F80080B602473593@chat1.epa.nsw.gov.au>

	I don't know much about cf and sql, but I had similar deleted things
reappearing in web pages that were created from Word files. All the editors
comments also appeared even though the file looked fine in Word. Someone
suggested to always "save as" rather than just save in Word.  Did that and
the file size went down and the problems disappeared.  
	Jes


On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Oliver Lineham wrote:

> I'm using an Access database for a site (with CF, not that it matters),
and
> noticed something funny happen when I deleted some records in a table.
>
> Deleting the records was fine, but when a new record was added later one
or
> two of the deleted records reappeared.  I deleted them again, but the
> reappeared again when more records were added.




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov  8 00:11:21 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Wed Nov  8 00:11:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E30@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIENIDFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

annie,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: aphelan (Andrea Phelan)
:
: As a self taught web developer, I'm interested in
: aquiring some sort of certification to  help uphold
: my qualifications to potential employers.  I was
: wondering if anyone out there had any experience
: with brainbench certifications and how useful they
: have been to you.  Also how useful cert prep
: courses have been.  I don't want to challenge any
: exams until I am certain I can achieve a 'master'
: status, and I'd like to know what the best approach
: to this might be.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the brainbench certs are probably the most widely recognized of the publicly
available certs out there.  however, saying that, you're likely to run into
many potential employers who have never heard of them.  that's because most
hr departments are *way* behind the times.  if they weren't you wouldn't see
buzz-word bingo job descriptions that ask for obviously (to us)
impossible/conflicting skill requirements.

it would probably be best to take the test seriously, but do it for the
plaque on the wall.  ultimately, as more companies become aware of
brainbench, the more valuable your test scores will be.

a nice bonus with brainbench is you can take the tests as many times as you
like.  most of the tests have a pretty sizable bank of questions to choose
from so you're not likely to get many of the same questions twice.  this
gives you a way of measuring your skills now, identifying your weak areas,
and assessing your progress since the last time you took the test.

even better, you can decide which of your test results are viewable by
others and which ones are not.  no sense showing anything but your best
efforts, right?  for example, i had a tough time with the test (distractions
and a headache) when i took the javascript certification a few weeks ago and
wasn't very pleased with my score.  i took the test again the other day and
scored very high.  obviously only my good score (which reflects my better
effort) is displayed.

word of warning though.  i found out something the hard way about brainbench
certifications.  it doesn't say it anywhere on the site but the certs are
only valid for one year.  after that they "expire" and are no longer
displayed in your transcript.  i found this out by having a prospective
employer point out that my transcript didn't have any certs in it which was
linked from my resume.  to put it mildly, i was pretty embarrassed.
personally i'd prefer that certs that are "expired" still show on my
transcript, but are marked as expired.  that would show some
consistency/improvement in test results over time.  maybe i'll bring up that
idea to them.

personally, i take the tests to find out where i rank with my peers.  it
delights me to no end to take the test and find out that i'm top dog in both
coldfusion and javascript in the state of oregon.  it helps the company i
work for mostly in intangible ways so it's difficult to measure my value
(and hence my pay rate) based solely on test scores, although it does lend
some credibility with regard to training new employees.  it also gives them
a number to shoot for in their learning experience.

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov  8 02:26:19 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Wed Nov  8 02:26:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5@harrypotter>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELCENODFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

norman,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Norman Beresford
:
: If you really want to get Master status then you
: could have a handy reference book/document
: to hand - which kind of defeats the point but
: does show that you can find information quickly :)
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

part of the point of the test is to see how good your research skills are.
that's part of being a good, competent programmer.  no one expects that you
memorize every function, syntax, methods, properties, tags, etc. of a given
language.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: I don't know how much use Brainbench certification
: would be in getting a job.  All of the interviews I've
: been to have asked for example URLs and given
: tests on the spot, which removes the need for
: certification such as Brainbenches.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i disagree that "on the spot" tests remove the need for certification for
brainbench certification.  if anything the brainbench certification just
strengthens the claims you make about your skills in combination with your
"on the spot" test scores.  also, unlike the "on the spot" tests, the
brainbench certification is one that is administered by a neutral third
party.  that speaks better than a test administered by a biased party.

just my 2 cents,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From xslf at xslf.com  Wed Nov  8 02:30:52 2000
From: xslf at xslf.com (Shoshannah Forbes)
Date: Wed Nov  8 02:30:52 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
References: <20001107232555.WXCO2410.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <003101c0495e$747741a0$dc9bfea9@xslf>

I hosted with CIhost for almost a year, until around December 99 they
started to go down on a regular basis and has lots of problems.

Near the end of Dec. 99, while everyone was getting ready for the Y2K bug,
they upgraded (or so they said) there DNS servers, where down for almost a
week, and when they where back up again, they had restored the costumer
sites from old tape backups that where not up-to-date.
Soon after that I left (they where still having problems) for
http://www.wehost.net , and I am very happy that I did, since the service in
wehost is so much better, and I am actually paying less then I did when I
was at CIhost.

Since I am not in the US, Email support is very important for me. CIhost
took FOREVER to answer, if they did answer. With wehost.net, a few minutes
after I email them I get a good answer from a human, even during weekends.

HTH
Shoshannah Forbes
--
Hebrew services for site owners http://www.bool.co.il
Moderator, site builder forum http://forums.nana.co.il/forum.asp?id=17
Personal site: http://www.forbes.co.il

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Stetser" <icongarden at icongarden.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] looking for serious hosting


> Well, I'm glad that your experience with them has been good. Perhaps the
servers we've been on have been located in a different facility and the
people we talk to in the basement of the customer service department. I
personally use FutureQuest - about the only drawback I can think of right
now is that they don't yet offer dedicated hosts. Their service and speed,
however, is amazing :)
>





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Nov  8 03:00:20 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Wed Nov  8 03:00:20 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <3a083d0c$1@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEOADFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

bruce,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Bruce Heerssen
:
: Yes, you can re-take the exam. However, the
: previous results will still be available. There does
: not seem to be a way to specify which exam's
: results to make public - its an all or nothing deal.
: So if you do take the exam multiple times, a
: prospective employer can view the results of
: each exam (should you make them public).
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in your account administration you can simply check the test scores that you
wish to be displayed in your public transcript.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: I guess that means that although you can take the
: exam multiple times, doing so may not be to your
: advantage. Would you hire a guy that had to take
: the HTML exam six times before getting a reasonable
: result?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you can decide which test scores are public and which are not.  i view that
as a good thing since you can't count on your first attempts at a test to be
your best efforts.  i would personally suggest that you take the test not
for your best score the first time, but simply to get comfortable with the
format and question style.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Moral: study hard before taking the exam. Have your
: reference manuals handy and know where to look in
: them for specific info before you start the exam.
: Although the tests do not seem to be too hard, there
: is an excellent possibility that they will cover some
: areas that you have yet to explore.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

even if you're very experienced in the subject matter, you *will* encounter
something you're unfamiliar with.  i have taken 3 of the tests, all 3 of
which i rated as a high-scoring master and still found 1 or 2 questions that
covered something that i was uncertain about.  this is where research skills
get tested.

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From stef at nota-bene.org  Wed Nov  8 03:57:37 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Wed Nov  8 03:57:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] Question: Netscape and positioned divs
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108104126.009ea060@mail.ridingzone.com>

So.

Here's one of those insoluble problems we all love, and guess what, it's 
got Netscape written all over it.

I'm asked to optimize the display speed for a page so far laid out with 
tables. Since our content is pretty heavy I'm trying to put everything in 
divs, using both absolute and relative positioning. Hence ideally the 
content will be displayed before right and left navigation bars.

The basic structure can be seen here (the old page, all tables):
http://www.ridingzone.com/Rz/site2/air/

Now what I'm doing is:
Put the header in one absolute-positioned div. then put all the content in 
a relative-positioned div (otherwise Netscape wouldn't display scrollbars), 
within which I created three absolute-positioned divs.

Basically my code looks as follows (spaces added for this mail's sake):

< div id="containerDiv" style="position:relative; top:155px; left:0px; ">
     < div id="middleDiv"
         style="position:absolute; top:0px; left:170px; width:444px; 
z-index:10">
     < cfinclude template="_optim/zone3.cfm">
     < /div>

     < div id="rightDiv"
         style="position:absolute; top:0px; left:636px; width:160px; 
z-index:11">
     < cfinclude template="_optim/zone4.cfm">
     < /div>

     < div id="leftDiv"
         style="position:absolute; top:0px; left:0px; width:144px; z-index:12">
     < cfinclude template="_optim/zone2.cfm">
     < /div>

< /div>

The display looks just fine in IE.
However in Netscape middleDiv is correctly positioned, but then rightDiv 
and leftDiv are positioned 170px too far on the right, as if they used 
middleDiv as a reference of what left:0px would mean. Here:
http://www.ridingzone.com/Rz/site2/air/_optim_apres.cfm

The crasiest thing is if I move leftDiv and rightDiv up in my code, before 
the middleDiv, everything is placed correctly. See:
http://www.ridingzone.com/Rz/site2/air/_optim_correct_in_nn.cfm

(NB: note that the source code is not easily readable due the the CFM code 
behind. I'll work on it later on, first things first.)
Anybody has a clue as to how to solve this nagging little thingy?

FYI, this attempt at layout is based on Jeff Veen's excellent article "The 
Illusion of Speed" http://www.alistapart.com/stories/speed/


s t e f




From chris at lonondweb.net  Wed Nov  8 04:43:36 2000
From: chris at lonondweb.net (Chris Hayes)
Date: Wed Nov  8 04:43:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
References: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3a092db5$1@fuseware.com>

Just a point.. you have compacted and repaired the DB?

Sorry if this was mentioned already but I haven't the time this morning to
go through the lot.

Regards


"Oliver Lineham" <oliver at lineham.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8 at mail.paradise.net.nz...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm using an Access database for a site (with CF, not that it matters),
and
> noticed something funny happen when I deleted some records in a table.
>
> Deleting the records was fine, but when a new record was added later one
or
> two of the deleted records reappeared.  I deleted them again, but the
> reappeared again when more records were added.
>
> This freaked me out - if it happens when the site is "live" it could be a
> real disaster.
>
> Is this a known problem with Access?  Obviously it is a problem with the
> table index getting corrupt, but does anyone know what might have caused
> that to happen?
>
> One solution I might use is to never delete records, and just use a
> "deleted" boolean field - but this is a pain, complicates every query on
> the site, and would waste space.  Perhaps a "deleted" field is a good way
> to design databases regardless - i'm not sure.
>
> Any insight at all appreciated.
>
> </ol>
>
> ____________________________________________________
>      v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
>   po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
>   phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Wed Nov  8 05:04:05 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Wed Nov  8 05:04:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <3a092db5$1@fuseware.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001109000209.00ae4b58@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 10:36 8/11/2000 +0000, you wrote:

>Just a point.. you have compacted and repaired the DB?

Yes, and I haven't had the problem for a while (this may or may not because 
of the compact/repair).

Mostly I'm just paranoid that such a corruption (if that's what it was) 
might happen on the live site.

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Wed Nov  8 06:53:57 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Wed Nov  8 06:53:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] CFLOCK for session variables
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001109014749.00adbef0@mail.paradise.net.nz>

Hi CF people,

When using CFLOCK with the "session" scope, does CF lock access to the 
session scope for *all* requests, or just the client whose session it is?

The latter makes more sense.  Two requests coming from different users in 
different, concurrent sessions cannot write to the same session variable - 
that's the whole point of session management and the session scope.

I just thought I'd check, because if this is not the case (illogical) it 
could have real performance implications for a web application.

Naturally, I'm only concerned about exclusive locks.


</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Wed Nov  8 06:56:53 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Wed Nov  8 06:56:53 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.30.0011070928320.114588-100000@hal.humberc.on.c
 a>
References: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001109015608.0194ef00@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 10:10 7/11/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>Not sure if this will help - but I've used Access extensivly - depending
>on what your doing and the order of operations you might have to 'commit'
>your sql transaction before performing another - also flushing the cache
>may help.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I believe CFQUERY takes care of this 
automatically.  I think the answer was simply that I had a mildly corrupt 
database.

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From chris at londonweb.net  Wed Nov  8 07:55:42 2000
From: chris at londonweb.net (Chris Hayes)
Date: Wed Nov  8 07:55:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] Problems with deleted records in Access
References: <4.2.0.58.20001108022339.017c4ce8@mail.paradise.net.nz> <3a092db5$1@fuseware.com> <4.2.0.58.20001109000209.00ae4b58@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <010701c0498b$97f12920$2800a8c0@londonweb.net>

> >Just a point.. you have compacted and repaired the DB?
>
> Yes, and I haven't had the problem for a while (this may or may not
because
> of the compact/repair).
>
> Mostly I'm just paranoid that such a corruption (if that's what it was)
> might happen on the live site.

So you should be :-)

I often see these problems (once/twice per month) when working in the
development environment, but never on our live servers. I have pretty much
nailed it down to working on the DB whilst CF is still hooked up and there
are users making queries against it.

You should be safe if you make sure you never work on the database on the
live server.

Having said that I generally have a policy of not deleting any records, only
marking them as deleted as you originally suggested.   The idea of having
dynamic delete queries on your site is too scary.  If you build it in now it
could save you a great deal of pain in the future, in fact it's saved my
bacon once.










From stef at nota-bene.org  Wed Nov  8 08:04:39 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:04:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] Answer: (was Question) Netscape and positioned divs
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108104126.009ea060@mail.ridingzone.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108145431.009e4d80@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: s t e f || date: 11:04 08/11/2000 +0100]
>The basic structure can be seen here (the old page, all tables):
>http://www.ridingzone.com/Rz/site2/air/
>
>Now what I'm doing is:
>Put the header in one absolute-positioned div. then put all the content in 
>a relative-positioned div (otherwise Netscape wouldn't display 
>scrollbars), within which I created three absolute-positioned divs.
>http://www.ridingzone.com/Rz/site2/air/_optim_apres.cfm

I solved the problem, people!

The solution was simple, in fact: the tables inside the middleDiv were a 
wee bit larger than the div itself. As often in NN, it didn't know how to 
handle it so it went crazy. Now the display's right.

It's the trouble of re-taking a site after an external company has done the 
job.

s t e f




From jamie at bayou.com  Wed Nov  8 08:06:41 2000
From: jamie at bayou.com (Jamie Madden)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:06:41 2000
Subject: [thelist] Ad Views
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108080600.00e37390@mail.bayou.com>

Good morning Evolutionaries

I've got a question.  How much is one ad view worth.  Now before you answer 
what I need to know is an average.  Barring region, page views, etc., I 
need a real average price.

jamie




From bread_man at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  8 08:36:38 2000
From: bread_man at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:36:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
Message-ID: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>

Hey Web Gurus, mind if I ask a simple ques?

I have a large 800x600 background image and I put it as the background of a 
large table and then made a number of nested tables to position the pictures 
and text where I want them over the background.

It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is repeated 
in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy looking with the 
background image starting over in multiple places withing the large table.  
Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a way around it?

I can't just make the background image the background of the html page 
because I don't want it to tile.  I have tables outside the main large 
table, tiling colors to expand with larger browsers.

Thanks in advance for help on this!!

adam
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From Ari_Herzog at Instron.com  Wed Nov  8 08:46:29 2000
From: Ari_Herzog at Instron.com (Herzog, Ari)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:46:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
Message-ID: <B06DC94BEC32D21197D800805FA6FB5F032CA3F7@us-can-exch-s1.instron.com>

Good idea. Now how come I never think of stuff like that?? *grin*


-----Original Message-----
From: Alessandro [mailto:Alessandro at bodytrends.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:45 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?


Why not just run a start>find for ws_ftp.log, highlight all, hit delete.


Alessandro                
Alessandro at bodytrends.com  
http://www.bodytrends.com  


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Herzog, Ari
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:40 PM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
> 
> 
> Strange question: When using WS_FTP PRO (before I corrected the error)
> the program was inserting a WS_FTP.LOG file in every directory and
> subdirectory on
> my local mirrored website. Is there any command in Dreamweaver or 
> some other
> program
> that can delete this in bulk without manually deleting it from 
> every folder?
> 
> Thx
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Ari Herzog
> Internet Webmaster
> Instron Corporation
> Tel:  781-575-5638
> Fax: 781-575-5768
> Email: ari_herzog at instron.com
> 
> Check out our website at http://www.instron.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From jamie at bayou.com  Wed Nov  8 08:47:12 2000
From: jamie at bayou.com (Jamie Madden)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:47:12 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
In-Reply-To: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108084814.00e349d0@mail.bayou.com>

Use a one pixel transparent .gif as the background for each table cell and 
the problem will go away.

jamie

At 02:36 PM 11/8/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hey Web Gurus, mind if I ask a simple ques?
>
>I have a large 800x600 background image and I put it as the background of 
>a large table and then made a number of nested tables to position the 
>pictures and text where I want them over the background.
>
>It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is repeated 
>in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy looking with the 
>background image starting over in multiple places withing the large table.
>Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a way around it?
>
>I can't just make the background image the background of the html page 
>because I don't want it to tile.  I have tables outside the main large 
>table, tiling colors to expand with larger browsers.
>
>Thanks in advance for help on this!!
>
>adam
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
>http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From comharsa at clara.net  Wed Nov  8 08:51:33 2000
From: comharsa at clara.net (Comharsa)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:51:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
In-Reply-To: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108144940.00a1e030@relay.clara.net>

At 14:36 08/11/00, Adam Slesinger found time to write:
>It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is repeated 
>in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy looking with the 
>background image starting over in multiple places withing the large table.
>Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a way around it?

In NS nested table cells inherit the background from the parent table. 
Create a transparent gif around 20 x 20 and use that as the cell background 
in each of the cells in the nested tables.

Brian
comharsa at clara.net




From steve.wood at serviceengine.com  Wed Nov  8 08:54:46 2000
From: steve.wood at serviceengine.com (Steven Wood)
Date: Wed Nov  8 08:54:46 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
In-Reply-To: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBIJGCGLMGAGFNBENGIEPACGAA.steve.wood@serviceengine.com>

> I have a large 800x600 background image and I put it as the 
> background of a 
> large table and then made a number of nested tables to position 
> the pictures 
> and text where I want them over the background.
> 
> It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is 
> repeated 
> in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy looking 
> with the 
> background image starting over in multiple places withing the 
> large table.  
> Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a way around it?

Heh, you've just encountered the fabled Netscape table background issue.

Here's a short article that addresses the problem:
(one of many such articles that you can find around the web)
http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol3/html_no6.htm

here's another:

http://www.webreview.com/pub/1999/05/07/tag

Steven Wood
Dynamic Application Specialist
ServiceEngine.com, Inc.
The Internet Utility for Customer Service
203.402.1151
203.925.8768 Fax
http://www.ServiceEngine.com




From jmorehead at alphalincoln.com  Wed Nov  8 09:06:33 2000
From: jmorehead at alphalincoln.com (Jason Morehead)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:06:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
In-Reply-To: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>
References: <F203MWx9NxHyPuDDtcK0000e35d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05001900b62f1b6d400f@[207.91.25.33]>

>I have a large 800x600 background image and I put it as the 
>background of a large table and then made a number of nested tables 
>to position the pictures and text where I want them over the 
>background.
>
>It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is 
>repeated in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy 
>looking with the background image starting over in multiple places 
>withing the large table.  Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a 
>way around it?

ah yes, netscape's background bug.  i ran into that just yesterday 
with a site i'm working on.  you want the background to show through 
the tables (but don't want the nested tables to have their own 
backgrounds), you could specify a background for each of the nested 
tables, using a transparent .gif.  backgrounds inside nested tables 
will override the background of the table those tables are nested in. 
unfortunately, the same can't be said for using background colors 
inside a nested table.  does that make sense?

it's buggy and bloated, i know, but it does work.

jason
-- 
http://www.alphalincoln.com/
alphagraphics of nebraska - web services
201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508 - 402.475.0000



From mike at mikespace.net  Wed Nov  8 09:15:10 2000
From: mike at mikespace.net (Mike Smith)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:15:10 2000
Subject: [thelist] Coldfusion custom tags
Message-ID: <NEBBJMNMLFIMJDKAOEEMCEKGCJAA.mike@mikespace.net>

anyone got any idea where I could find documentation for the cfx.jar that
you use to write java custom tags?!?

I've searched and searched, and have been completely unable to find
anything.

TIA

Mike




From bread_man at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  8 09:17:42 2000
From: bread_man at hotmail.com (Adam Slesinger)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:17:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
Message-ID: <F101ca0ZkfzDskqC5Et00001372@hotmail.com>

I knew this list would rock.  Thanks everyone who responded - that did the 
trick nicely.  -adam
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Wed Nov  8 09:23:37 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:23:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE:Table Background Question
In-Reply-To: <20001108144653.01A106BA8E@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000801c0499a$a0b658f0$a401410a@tracyc>


Adam,
Using CSS you can indicate that you don't want the background image to
repeat or tile.
Try this:

<Body style="background-image: whatever.jpg; background-repeat: NO-REPEAT">

check out this link for reference:
http://www.coolnerds.com/xrefs/xrefcss.htm
Here it says that it's n/a on NN but I've used it and it works fine.

> Message: 29
> From: "Adam Slesinger" <bread_man at hotmail.com>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:36:55 GMT
> Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hey Web Gurus, mind if I ask a simple ques?
>
> I have a large 800x600 background image and I put it as the
> background of a
> large table and then made a number of nested tables to position
> the pictures
> and text where I want them over the background.
>
> It looks great in IE, but in Netscape 4.X the background image is
> repeated
> in each nested table making the whole thing rather screwy looking
> with the
> background image starting over in multiple places withing the
> large table.
> Why is Netscape doing this, and is there a way around it?
>
> I can't just make the background image the background of the html page
> because I don't want it to tile.  I have tables outside the main large
> table, tiling colors to expand with larger browsers.
>
> Thanks in advance for help on this!!
>
> adam
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 30
> From: "Herzog, Ari" <Ari_Herzog at Instron.com>
> To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:48:45 -0500
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Good idea. Now how come I never think of stuff like that?? *grin*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alessandro [mailto:Alessandro at bodytrends.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:45 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
>
>
> Why not just run a start>find for ws_ftp.log, highlight all, hit delete.
>
>
> Alessandro
> Alessandro at bodytrends.com
> http://www.bodytrends.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Herzog, Ari
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:40 PM
> > To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> > Subject: [thelist] How can I bulk delete a single file?
> >
> >
> > Strange question: When using WS_FTP PRO (before I corrected the error)
> > the program was inserting a WS_FTP.LOG file in every directory and
> > subdirectory on
> > my local mirrored website. Is there any command in Dreamweaver or
> > some other
> > program
> > that can delete this in bulk without manually deleting it from
> > every folder?
> >
> > Thx
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> > Ari Herzog
> > Internet Webmaster
> > Instron Corporation
> > Tel:  781-575-5638
> > Fax: 781-575-5768
> > Email: ari_herzog at instron.com
> >
> > Check out our website at http://www.instron.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist
>
> Archives: http://lists.evolt.org
>
> End of thelist Digest
>




From twebb at dynamicinst.com  Wed Nov  8 09:30:38 2000
From: twebb at dynamicinst.com (Tom Webb)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:30:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
In-Reply-To: <003101c0495e$747741a0$dc9bfea9@xslf>
References: <20001107232555.WXCO2410.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001108072817.0095cb40@mailserver>

Again my experience with CIHost is that they responded quickly to any 
problem we have had.  CIHost had some growing pains and experienced some 
problems but they have been overcome.  They responded quickly to any 
problems we have had.  All my customers have not had the experiences with 
CIHost that you have had.  They have been extremely helpful when setting up 
the service for all our customers and I find their service people competent 
and friendly.  I have extensive IT background therefore I have been able to 
pinpoint the problems that  we have experienced and that helps with all 
ISPs.  I will still recommend them to my customers.
Tom Webb

At 10:32 AM 11/8/00 +0200, you wrote:
>I hosted with CIhost for almost a year, until around December 99 they
>started to go down on a regular basis and has lots of problems.
>
>Near the end of Dec. 99, while everyone was getting ready for the Y2K bug,
>they upgraded (or so they said) there DNS servers, where down for almost a
>week, and when they where back up again, they had restored the costumer
>sites from old tape backups that where not up-to-date.
>Soon after that I left (they where still having problems) for
>http://www.wehost.net , and I am very happy that I did, since the service in
>wehost is so much better, and I am actually paying less then I did when I
>was at CIhost.
>
>Since I am not in the US, Email support is very important for me. CIhost
>took FOREVER to answer, if they did answer. With wehost.net, a few minutes
>after I email them I get a good answer from a human, even during weekends.
>
>HTH
>Shoshannah Forbes
>--
>Hebrew services for site owners http://www.bool.co.il
>Moderator, site builder forum http://forums.nana.co.il/forum.asp?id=17
>Personal site: http://www.forbes.co.il
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jacob Stetser" <icongarden at icongarden.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:25 AM
>Subject: Re: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
>
>
> > Well, I'm glad that your experience with them has been good. Perhaps the
>servers we've been on have been located in a different facility and the
>people we talk to in the basement of the customer service department. I
>personally use FutureQuest - about the only drawback I can think of right
>now is that they don't yet offer dedicated hosts. Their service and speed,
>however, is amazing :)
> >
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jay at weberrific.org  Wed Nov  8 09:34:08 2000
From: jay at weberrific.org (Jay Turley)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:34:08 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS Border Problem
Message-ID: <200011081534.eA8FYRm12770@server5000.net>

Hi all y'all-

I have a style in my page as shown below: 

<style type="text/css">
  #searchBox {
  	position: absolute;
  	top: 5px;
  	left: 5px;
  	width: 300px;
  	height: 100px;
  	clip: rect(0px 300px 100px 0px);
  	background-color: #ffffcc;
  	layer-background-color: #ffffcc;
  	visiblity: visible;
  	border: 1px solid #000000;
  	z-index: 1;
  	display : block;
  	overflow : hidden;
  }
</STYLE>

When I use this div:

<div id="searchBox"></div>

In IE the border completely surrounds the div, but in NS, the border flows 
with the content, moving up if the content does not fill the div, and 
moving below the clipping rectangle if the content overflows the div. Do 
any of you have any suggestions as to how I can make NS support this border 
properly? Or am I going to have to end up using nested tables ala Zeldman 
to make these look proper (which of course incurs its own problems as NS 
does not support the height attribute on the table tag).

Thanks

- Jay Turley ---------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.weberrific.org
 "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"



From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Nov  8 09:58:41 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Nov  8 09:58:41 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re: more forms and CSS --making boxes invisible --C
	LOSED
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F652@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> >I've been tasked with making text input boxes not look like 
> text input
> >boxes, specifically, I gotta remove the border and make just 
> the text inside

> information to the server, use a INPUT TYPE="hidden". If it's just a
> convenience for the user, use plain text.
> 

couple people have mentioned using plain text, here's my reasoning why I
went down the borderless textbox route:

1) the field is the sum of hours worked on a timesheet, so on top of being
constantly updated as they fill out the rest of the form, its a value I have
to pass along

2) without getting into the insane quirks of NN vs IE dHTML, I still need to
have the page live in a pre-dHTML browser

3) hiding the borders is a faster solution, and this is under a time crunch
(what isn't?)

That being said, I will sleep at night fine knowing Netscape won't listen to
CSS in this case, I's just doing my due diligence to be honky dory across
browsers.

Thanks kids, I appreciate the help =)
sgd



From sck at biljettpoolen.se  Wed Nov  8 10:01:03 2000
From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:01:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E5F3@SBS>

Hmmm, having been aware of this problem for a long time and having never
found a satisfactory solution, I thought I would revisit a site of mine
having problems with table backgrounds and apply this tip. What I'm getting
though is that the transparent gif doesn't result in a see-through table
cell, but a white table cell that blocks out the background image.

I've checked and double checked that the gif is *really* a transparent gif
(it displays as it should in IE). I'm hoping I'm just being dumb and that
I've done something wrong - anyone recognise the problem? I'm using
Communicator 4.73 on Win 2000.

.steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Comharsa [mailto:comharsa at clara.net]
> Sent: den 8 november 2000 15:52
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Table Background Question
> 
<snip>
> 
> In NS nested table cells inherit the background from the 
> parent table. 
> Create a transparent gif around 20 x 20 and use that as the 
> cell background 
> in each of the cells in the nested tables.
> 
> Brian
> comharsa at clara.net
> 
> 



From carole at soulmedia.com  Wed Nov  8 10:13:59 2000
From: carole at soulmedia.com (Carole Guevin)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:13:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] Web2000 aftermath articles*
In-Reply-To: <NCBBIJGCGLMGAGFNBENGCEDICGAA.steve.wood@serviceengine.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBLNBHILBEIODPIGDMMECBDJAA.carole@soulmedia.com>

Hi all,

If you're interested in knowing what it was like to redo a site in 8 hours -
read The WebReview article:

Cool Site in a Day: The Shortest Eight Hours of Our Lives
http://www.webreview.com/pub/2000/11/06/feature/index03.html


Find out more about the 2 teams:
http://netdiver.net/freelance/entranceset.htm

carole guevin
  imagineering studio.................+
http://soulmedia.com
  new media resources........+
http://netdiver.net




From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu  Wed Nov  8 10:23:12 2000
From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:23:12 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEOADFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <3a083d0c$1@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <3A092926.25164.5D472E@localhost>

Hello, 

There is a menu list on our web page that I used CSS to format. I 
could have used tables but the page is so full of tables I thought it 
would be better, if I could get away with it, to use CSS. For the 
majority of browsers and platforms this works fine but I have just 
discovered that the 4.5 IE Mac browser used by Intermedia @home 
 doesn't interpret the <br> tags and therefore throws all of the menu 
items into a single line. I know I could uset the <dd> list tag but 
the indent is too large and at the time I was putting this together 
this coding seemed easier/better than trying to figure out how to 
change the indent size if that was going to be possible at all. In 
any case, I'm wondering how you all would handle this problem. 
Thanks in advance for any tips you may have. Here's the code, the 
associated style and the URL for the page where you will see the 
problem if you have the above browser. Also, if anyone runs into 
this problem with a different browser, will you let me know which 
platform/browser you are using. Thanks in advance...I know I 
should provide a tip but I'm afraid I learn all my tips from you all!
************************************************************
.list {  font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding-left: 
15px; font-size: 9pt; width: 100% }
.listhead {  font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-
size: 10pt; font-weight: bold}

***************************************

<p></p><span class="listhead">Library Catalogs</span><br />
    <span class="list"><a href="http://acorn.library.vanderbilt.edu" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Look for books, journals and other 
materials held by the library. ';
	  return true" title="Catalog of the Vanderbilt University 
Library">ACORN</a><br /></span>
     <span class="list"><a href="/iris/vandy.html" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Look for materials held by the 
consortium. ';
	  return true" title="Catalog of the libraries of Vanderbilt, 
University of 
Tennessee, and University of Kentucky">IRIS</a><br /></span> 
    <span class="list"><a href="/athena/vandy.html" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Look for materials held by the 
consortium. ';
	  return true" title="Catalog of Vanderbilt and eleven other 
Nashville area 
libraries" >ATHENA</a><br /></span> 
    <span class="list"><a href="/heard/catalogs.shtml#othcats" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Search these catalogs from other 
libraries to identify materials not held by Vanderbilt, IRIS or 
ATHENA. '; 
return true" title="Catalogs of other U.S and International 
libraries">Other Catalogs</a></span> 
<p></p><span class="listhead">Top Databases</span><br />
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://web.lexis-nexis.com/universe&RC=1374" onMouseOver 
="self.status='Connect to Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe'; return 
true" onClick ="self.status='Connect to Lexis-Nexis Academic 
Universe'; return true" onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return 
true">Academic Universe</a><br /></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://web.lex
is-nexis.com/universe">Academic&nbsp;Universe</a><br 
/></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://www.umi.com/pqdauto&RC=1417" onMouseOver 
="self.status='Connect to ProQuest'; return true" onClick 
="self.status='Connect to ProQuest'; return true" onMouseOut 
="self.status=' '; return true">ProQuest</a><br /></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://www.britannica.com/">Britannica.com</a><br 
/></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://www.britannica.com/&RC=1242" 
onMouseOver ="self.status='Connect to Britannica Online'; return 
true" onClick ="self.status='Connect to Britannica Online'; return 
true" onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return 
true">Britannica.com</a><br /></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://www.u
mi.com/pqdauto">ProQuest</a><br /></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://erl.library.vanderbilt.edu:8590/psycinfo?&RC=1418" 
onMouseOver ="self.status='Connect to PsycINFO'; return true" 
onClick ="self.status='Connect to PsycINFO'; return true" 
onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return true">PsycINFO</a><br 
/></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://erl.libra
ry.vanderbilt.edu:8590/psycinfo?">PsycInfo</a><br /></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://webofscience.com/&RC=1461" onMouseOver 
="self.status='Connect to Web of Science'; return true" onClick 
="self.status='Connect to Web of Science'; return true" 
onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return true">Web of Science</a><br 
/></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://www.w
ebofscience.com/">Web of Science</a><br /></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://webscript.library.vanderbilt.edu/vandforms/WorldCat&RC=1469" 
onMouseOver ="self.status='Connect to WorldCat'; return true" 
onClick ="self.status='Connect to WorldCat'; return true" 
onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return true">WorldCat</a><br 
/></span>
<!-- <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://webscri
pt.library.vanderbilt.edu/vandforms/WorldCat.New">WorldCat</a><b
r /></span> -->
     <span class="list"><a 
href="http://lib10.library.vanderbilt.edu:8080/cgi-
bin/go2.pl?URL=http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=htt
p://web3.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/infomark/837/98/73774487w3/p
url=rc6_ITOF&dyn=2!vdb_ITOF?sw_aep=tel_a_vanderbilt&RC=6544
" onMouseOver ="self.status='Connect to InfoTrac OneFile'; return 
true" onClick ="self.status='Connect to InfoTrac OneFile'; return 
true" onMouseOut ="self.status=' '; return true">InfoTrac 
OneFile</a><br /></span>
     <span class="list"><a href="/heard/edatabases.shtml" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Search for articles and full-text 
materials. ';
	  return true" title="A complete list of all our research 
databases" >All Databases</a></span>                
<p></p><a href="/heard/ejournals.shtml" class="listhead" 
onmouseover="self.status='Electronic journals by keyword or 
alphabetical list'; return true" title="Find electronic journals">E-
Journals</a>
<p></p><a href="/ref/" class="listhead" 
onmouseover="self.status=' Encyclopedias, Dictionaries and other 
Reference Tools '; return true" title="A selection
of web based resources for quick factual information ">Reference 
Tools</a>              
<p></p><a href="/request/table.shtml" class="listhead" 
onmouseover="self.status='The library provides many services for 
patrons'; return true" title="Forms for Library Services">Request 
  Forms</a><br />
         <span class="list"><a 
href="http://acorn.library.vanderbilt.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/0/0/29/50/3">
Renew 
  an item</a><br /> </span>
        <span class="list"><a 
href="/heard/forms/recall.shtml">Recall an item</a><br /></span>
        <span class="list"><a 
href="/request/annex_request.shtml">Annex</a><br /></span>
        <span class="list"><a 
href="/request/obsv.shtml">Observatory</a><br /></span>
        <span class="list"><a href="/request/rush.shtml">Rush an 
item</a><br />
</span> <span class="list"><a 
href="/request/illforms.shtml">Interlibrary-Loan</a><br />
</span>
         <span class="list"><a 
href="/request/purchase.shtml">Purchase</a><br /></span>
         <span class="list"><a 
href="/request/suggestion.shtml">Comments</a><br /></span>
 <span class="list"><a href="/request/email.shtml">Email-
notification</a><br /></span> 
 <span class="list"> <a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://www.lib
rary.vanderbilt.edu/restricted/refform.shtml">Reference</a> 
</span> 
<p></p>
   <a href="/heard/reserves.shtml"  class="listhead" 
onmouseover="self.status='Materials placed on Reserve by 
instructors'; return true" title="What are Course Reserves?"><br />
Course Reserves</a><br />
         <span class="list"><a 
href="http://acorn.library.vanderbilt.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/0/0/36/30182"
 onmouseover="self.status=' Lookup items on reserve. '; 
return true" title="Print reserves in the library">ACORN</a><br 
/></span> 
  <span class="list"><a href="/heard/erpp.shtml" 
onmouseover="self.status='Lookup items on Electronic Reserve.'; 
return true" title="Digitized reserve material available 
electronically">
E-Reserves</a><br /> </span>
  <span class="list"><a 
href="http://proxy.library.vanderbilt.edu:2048/login?url=http://www.lib
rary.vanderbilt.edu/restricted/reserve.shtml" 
onmouseover="self.status='Faculty and Instructors can request 
materials be placed on-reserve.  '; 
return true" title="Faculty/Instructor's form for placing materials on-
reserve.">Course Requests</a></span> 
<p></p><span class="listhead">Library Information<br /></span>
  <span class="list"><a 
href="/heard/info/phone.shtml#med">Hours</a><br /></span>
 <span class="list"><a href= "/heard/staffdir.shtml">Staff 
  Directory</a></span>
                <p></p><span class="listhead">Search the Web<br 
/></span>
  <span class="list"><a href="/heard/search.shtml">all 
Library</a><br />
</span> <span class="list"><a 
href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/search.html">all 
Vanderbilt</a><br />
</span>
                   <span class="list"><a 
href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Internet.html">all Web</a></span>
				
Suellen Stringer-Hye
Jean and Alexander Heard Library
Vanderbilt University
stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu



From VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil  Wed Nov  8 10:33:10 2000
From: VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil (Villano, Paul)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:33:10 2000
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
Message-ID: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D999862@usachcs-emh1.army.mil>

Okay, I should remember how to do this but I don't.  :(  

I created a link from an .htm file to a Word 2000 version (.doc) of that
same file but the file doesn't open.  What am I forgetting?

Here's the type of link I used (put within comment tags so it hopefully
won't screw with your html e-mail):

<!--
 
  <p align="center"><b><a href="taba.doc">GO TO WORD 2000 (PRINTABLE)
VERSION</a></b></p>

-->



From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Nov  8 10:36:47 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:36:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F658@gate.ti3.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Villano, Paul [mailto:VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil]
>  
>   <p align="center"><b><a href="taba.doc">GO TO WORD 2000 (PRINTABLE)
> VERSION</a></b></p>
> 

maybe the path to the document? (is it in the same directory as the html
page?)

the link is correct....
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/




From jaylard at equilon.com  Wed Nov  8 10:36:51 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:36:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CC9D@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Suellen,

> For the 
> majority of browsers and platforms this works fine but I have just 
> discovered that the 4.5 IE Mac browser used by Intermedia @home 
> doesn't interpret the <br> tags and therefore throws all of the menu 
> items into a single line. 

	I'd bet the <br> tags will work if you write them as standard HTML
rather than as XHTML tags (<br> rather than <br />).

hth,
James Aylard



From stef at nota-bene.org  Wed Nov  8 10:38:18 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:38:18 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
In-Reply-To: <3A092926.25164.5D472E@localhost>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEOADFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <3a083d0c$1@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108174109.009e53d0@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: Suellen Stringer-Hye || date: 10:21 08/11/2000 -0600]

Have you tried use*ing good old <br> tags instead of <br /> xHTML tags?

Maybe the solution is there.

s t e f




From VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil  Wed Nov  8 10:40:57 2000
From: VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil (Villano, Paul)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:40:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
Message-ID: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D999866@usachcs-emh1.army.mil>

The path is correct, too.  Must just be a setting for my browser that
doesn't open .doc files from the browser.  But how do I get it to do that
for viewers?  Hmmmm....

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Dexter [mailto:sgd at ti3.com]


maybe the path to the document? (is it in the same directory as the html
page?)

the link is correct....
sgd
--



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Wed Nov  8 10:41:16 2000
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:41:16 2000
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
Message-ID: <446A57B73D16D411811B00508B6CA242023B6972@cceexc03.cce.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Paul,

Doesn't it depend on the client's set-up?  I thought that determined whether
such a link would 'open' in word ... or download the file.


HTH,

Ron L.


-----Original Message-----
From: Villano, Paul [mailto:VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil]
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
  <p align="center"><b><a href="taba.doc">GO TO WORD 2000 (PRINTABLE)
VERSION</a></b></p>



From VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil  Wed Nov  8 10:52:34 2000
From: VillanoP at usachcs.army.mil (Villano, Paul)
Date: Wed Nov  8 10:52:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] Opening a Word Document from a Web Page
Message-ID: <416FD101108ED311BC3800902786F60D999869@usachcs-emh1.army.mil>

It seems to be working now.  I think I just had a computer problem (it has
been acting strange the last few days).  Thanks to all for the attempts to
help.  Yes, it does depend on the user's settings.  Some folks disabled
opening files to prevent downloading malicious code/files.  But I think most
folks (unless they physically disable it) will automatically open the file
(unless they have a demon-possessed computer like mine.  Where did I put
that holy water??).

Thanks again.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Luther, Ron [mailto:Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com]

Hi Paul,

Doesn't it depend on the client's set-up?  I thought that determined whether
such a link would 'open' in word ... or download the file.


HTH,

Ron L.



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Wed Nov  8 11:30:25 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Wed Nov  8 11:30:25 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
References: <000c01c048ec$6f350000$6401a8c0@cinci.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A098D37.D61F91D@sam-i-am.com>

can we get it (as well as 4,5) up on the browser archive?
(http://browsers.evolt.org/)

Sam


"Gina K. Anderson" wrote:
> 
> |I might have an AOL3.0 installer around here somewhere.
> |I'll look and let you know if I find one.
> |Gina
> 
> Well, guess what--I found it ;) Old copy of AOL 3.0 for Windows. If anyone is
> interested in it, let me know. I wrote Andrew offlist.
> 
> Gina
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From hodgsonm at citywatch.co.uk  Wed Nov  8 12:03:44 2000
From: hodgsonm at citywatch.co.uk (hodgsonm at citywatch.co.uk)
Date: Wed Nov  8 12:03:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re:  thelist digest, Vol 1 #859 - 22 msgs
Message-ID: <200011081803.eA8I3eh12132@farmer.oracular.com>

Delivery Failure Report - Citywatch.co.uk

Recipient: "michael.hodgson" is currently out of the office for an extended period.
He will return Friday 17th November 2000

Should you require an urgent response to your emails, please send a copy to
chris.riley at citywatch.co.uk

*****************************************************************************************
Please can you ensure that the correct email format is used on all 
inbound mails as without the correct addressing certain emails will 
not be delivered to the final destination.

Please note that the format to use for all mails is 
Please pay particular attention to the . inbetween the first and 
second names.

This mail has not been delivered to its destination, please resend 
using the correct mail address format.
*****************************************************************************************

Please contact "admin at citywatch.co.uk" for further assistance



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Wed Nov  8 12:13:08 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Wed Nov  8 12:13:08 2000
Subject: [thelist] Table Background Question
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E5F3@SBS>
Message-ID: <3A09973B.22A4E05@sam-i-am.com>

atually (and also) just an empty attribute background="" works just as
well as the invisible gif.

Sam



From madhu at asiacontent.com  Wed Nov  8 12:15:23 2000
From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon)
Date: Wed Nov  8 12:15:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <20001108144655.7BEA26BAB7@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108234047.02e5e3c0@200.200.200.111>

At 08:16 PM 11/8/2000, jeff penned the following words:
>the brainbench certs are probably the most widely recognized of the publicly
>available certs out there.  however, saying that, you're likely to run into

A little off-topic here. I just thought I'd mention that I saw the nuttiest 
revenue model at Brainbench.

They have ads on the question pages.

Now, to me this is downright crazy. The question pages are possibly the 
*worst* place to advertise. There you are, with 2 minutes to think of an 
answer to a question. You're reading the question carefully to make sure 
you understand it properly, and all your attention is directed solely at 
the question. The likelihood of the banner catching my eye is way too low. 
Who's going to click on a banner when he/she has 30 seconds left to answer 
a question (unless you're doing the test for fun of course). Even worse, 
clicking the banner will take me to another site. When I have an exam that 
is timed, do you really think I'm going to go visit another site?

Does anyone disagree with me?

Madhu
(who's quite proud of his high Written English score at Brainbench :)

@-,--`---
Madhu Menon
Webmaster, India.CNET.com
Read my journal at: http://madman.weblogs.com





From xk120mle at uswest.net  Wed Nov  8 12:53:38 2000
From: xk120mle at uswest.net (mle)
Date: Wed Nov  8 12:53:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist Table Background Question
References: <20001108180029.11E496BA68@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3A099FFE.ADD1A62A@qwest.net>

> I've checked and double checked that the gif is *really* a transparent gif
> (it displays as it should in IE). I'm hoping I'm just being dumb and that
> I've done something wrong - anyone recognise the problem?

I'm dumb, too. Same problem.

The workaround I learned from a previous evolt post. Don't bother with the
transparent
.gif.  Use an empty background attribute instead, in each affected table cell:
<background="">

Works fine so far.

mle




From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Nov  8 14:56:04 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Nov  8 14:56:04 2000
Subject: [thelist] FW: [aspadvanced] RE: The Future: ADO+ is part of ASP+ here is  a
 n overview
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F678@gate.ti3.com>

If any of you are keeping an eye on ASP+ and the .NET stuff, here is some
spilling from Charles Carroll (webmaster of http://learnasp.com/ and all
those infernal overly specific email lists ;)) that encapsulates a number of
the bonuses in one spot. Worth the read.

oh, and he openly invites any of you CF-heads (dan? seth?) over to the CF vs
ASP debate list, apparently they're heavy on pro-ASP, light on pro-CF:
http://www.asplists.com/asplists/debatecfasp2.asp (but if you ask me,
choosing to engage in a "this vs that" mailing list may be an ulcer waiting
to happen)

sgd

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Carroll [mailto:darthcarroll at asplists.com]

someone else said:
----
        The obvious question: is ADO+ simply a more powerful, functional,
and intelligent - and therefore more expensive - way to work with
Recordsets? I see where you mention scalibiliy a number of times below, but
its not clear if, you are talking scalibiliy as regards (ADO recordsets vs.
ADO+ Datasets) or (ADO+ Datasets and all other structures).
----

ADO recordsets are 
=> HEAVY objects (high memory footprint)
=> NOT Agile and NOT free-threaded unless disconnected and using certain
obscure drivers and conditions
     see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/server/asp/asptips.asp
=> every cell/row/column datapoint is a heavy variants
=> built on Iunknown and bloated COM glue
=> Had tons of expensive and flexible (read bloated) methods and properties
designed to interface with 10-15 year old ODBC drivers and modern drivers. 
=> Almost every method and property was tightly coupled to the DRIVER, so
method speed was always as slow as weakest driver code

Arrays were lighter 

and strings were even lighter

ADO+ datasets are:
=> LIGHT objects built from IL with small memory footprint
=> Freethreaded and Agile
=> every cell/row/column datapoint is a light strongly typed variable
=> built from very light IL and CLR glue
=> only talks to old drivers for initial connects and data transfers back
ONLY so has lightweight sort, filter and other methods that allow speedy
manipulation of datasets a
=> Since those methods talk to memory structures, not disk, server cursors,
etc. speed is LIGHTNING. These operations are UNCOUPLED (not even loosely
coupled) to the drivers.

Of course Arrays are lighter 

and strings are still lighter.


But recordset weighed 100 - 150 x as much as same data in array. And since
it was not agile putting it in any session o application scope was
scalability suicide, see: Connections would effectively limit all database
activity through one overworked connection with thread affinity. see: 
http://www.learnasp.com/advice/dbsessionapp.asp
and
http://www.learnasp.com/advice/threads.asp

Datasets weight slightly more than arrays OR strings and it is does not
cause scalability nightmares.

Arrays are lighter and strings are lighter BUT Datasets are pretty light.
Only the "connect" and "transfer" back statements are heavy. Other methods
are extremely lightweight and uncoupled to old techmology. 

--

The connection object, command object are not coupled to a recordset object.
The ADO+ Framework objects don't support anything resembling a recordset so
the connection and command object are not attached to a boat anchor.

Since VBscript is gone and all ASPX pages (even ones created with Notepad)
are compiled as 
==> free-threaded agile objects <==- whether the page language is VB,
C-Sharp or one of the other IL/CLR languages like:

Here is a list of some of the available non-MS languages that can build ASPx
pages:
Perl (http://www.activestate.com/.net) 
Python (http://www.activestate.com/.net) 
Cobol (http://www.adtools.com/info/whitepaper/net.html) 
Component Pascal (http://www.plasrc.qut.edu.au/ComponentPascal/) 
Eiffel (http://www.eiffel.com/doc/comtech/) 
Haskell (http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/ghc/) 
Mercury (http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/research/mercury/) 
APL (http://www.dyadic.com) 
Scheme (http://rover.cs.nwu.edu/~scheme/) 
SmallTalk (http://www.qks.com/) 
Oberon (http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/lightning/) 
Standard ML (http://research.microsoft.com/Projects/SML.NET/index.htm)

These compiled page objects can even be inherited, subclassed., and have
their methods over-ridden by pages in different languages: Fujitsu cobol
pages can inherit C# or VB compiled objects and change their implementation
or vice-versa.

Then these light scalable agile objects can be placed in application or
session state. Some notes:
a) session variables are accesible from every machine in a webfarm 
b) cookieless sessions are easy and cheap (believe it or NOT one config.web
ASCII file modification and all your pages transparently emit GUIDs without
harms to your POSTs and GETs and no changes in your pages.
http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/stateoverview.aspx

The only caveats are:

=> Of course anything in session variables lives longer than the users stay.
You could have 50 users on your site and 150 sessions which is WASTE but it
is much cheaper than the old days. But it is not free.

http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/applications.aspx

Global.asa is replaced by global.asax with 14 events instead of 4 including
the ability to participate in the whole request life-cycle such as mucking
with EVERY page IF WANTED before and after it is served and before it
arrives at user browser.
http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/globalasax.aspx

HOWEVER IF your purpose is CACHING, ASP+ has several better ways to cache:

Caching any kind of browser output (XML, a commonly accessed database query,
any part of the browser stream including images, etc.) is not a
code-intensive task anymore. 
Tasks like "the worlds fastest listbox" @ 
http://www.learnasp.com/learn/speedappdata.asp are now easy and 90% of the
code is unnecessary replaced by simple caching 
directives. http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/cachingoverview.aspx

gives an overview but here is a high-level summary.
a. 
A page that hits a database that was accessed by 5,000 users for example in
1 minute could only be cached by some code that carefully built strings,
placed in app vars and managed all that. 

Now a simple cache directive i.e. "Cache for 1 minute" could be placed on
the page and 5,000 users would get serious speed. The first user renders the
page, the other 4999 users that minute get that cached page. 

<%@ OutputCache duration="240"%>
This directive means the HTML for the page is remembered after first request
for 240 seconds. Even if a page reads XML data, scrapes websites, does 12
database reads only the first user invokes the code and for 239 more seconds
subsequent users get HTML without all the code activity.

EVEN IF PAGE WAS INVOKED VIA POST AND/OR GET ASP+ keeps many relevant
independent caches if necessary transparent to the person coding the page.

b. 
Fragment caching is possible too. If the above page had several database
reads, several website scrapes and had some customized content for a user
directives could be placed that cache one of the database segments for 1
hour, another for 10 minutes, the scraper data for 3 minutes of granularity
and leave the user-driven customized component alone. 
c. 
Any cache can be tied to a file resource, if the file date/time changes, the
cache is dirtied and rebuilt. 
d. 
Any cache item (like a business object) that is created by a developer can
be marked with a cost so that if ASPNG has to remove items from the cache to
conserve memory it doesn't throw items out that are expensive to rebuild
time-wise. You know your resources and bottlenecks so these hints you supply
keep the system from removing your cached data that is hard to rebuild. 

Look at:
http://www.aspng.com/learn/dbtable.aspx
for an example of simple output caching.

Sessions can persist a machine reboot ONLY IF IF IF you adjust config.web
settings so sessions are stored to a backend database (SQLserver, Oracle,
whatever) transparently to the code. Otherwise sessions leave upon timeout.

Of course sessions and apps are only one of the tools a programmer has to
attain raw speed and high scalability in a VERY scalable way. HTTP Handlers
will blow your mind. ISAPI speed/power and low-level access. High-level
declaritive elegance when writing.
http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/httphandlers.aspx

Writing NT services is trivial and free-threaded with Notepad and VB:
http://www.aspng.com/quickstart/howto/doc/SimpleService.aspx

ITS A WHOLE NEW WORLD!!!!!



From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Nov  8 15:00:54 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Nov  8 15:00:54 2000
Subject: [thelist] [aspng] Re: Differences
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F67A@gate.ti3.com>

one more spew from Mr Carroll about general differences between ASP and ASP+

If you wanted to throw away the other email after a couple paragraphs, read
this one in its entirety, is more generic....

sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Carroll [mailto:darthcarroll at asplists.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2000 1:32 AM
To: aspng
Subject: [aspng] Re: Differences


At 11:45 AM 11/8/2000 +0530, you wrote:

Hi 
        Can anybody give me the common features(coding) available in ASP and
ASP+.
        
With Regards
Karthik Swaminathan

Classic Asp has 
(1)
6 objects, see:
http://www.learnasp.com/start/objects.asp
which are components that make web-development dynamic.
(2)
2 built-in script languages (VBscript, Jscript) that are NOT compiled. 
some 3rd party languages: Perlscript, Python but not so robust.
(3)
Database support via ADO which communicates with ODBC and OLEDB databases.
Most database display is done through recordsets and loops. Most database
manipulation requires code coupled to back-end database that may fail if
drivers are switched and needs to be written carefully.
(4)
Can be extended with COM objects or COM+ (including transactions) that can
interact with ASP objects. Supports default interface COM programming, not
multiple interfaces. COM and COM+ objects tend to need GUI tools that
automate their creation.
(5)
Some essential COM components that are needed to build websites (browser
detection, etc.) -- Simple but useful. Most sites with complex needs will
have to build or buy many COM components to complete tasks.
(6)
Tightly coupled to IIS and NT and Intel.
(7)
Browser Neutral. The programmer decides which browsers to support.
(8)
The ASP engine is undocumented so that it cannot easily be extended and only
low-level ISAPI filters can be created to accomplish tasks that ASP will not
support easily.
(9)
Once an application is created it's settings reside in the Windows Registry,
Binary Metabase, MTS catalogs, IIS settings. Transferring /copying a app
from server is a complex tedious job with few automatic tools. Component
registration is done via a variety of doftware packages all of which require
a system adminstrator run these utilities.
(10)
Environment assumes code and libraries are written carefully and debugged
and stress tested. Flaws in codes or component or memory leaks cause system
deterioration and may require soft and hard reboots. 
(11)
Scalability without work is limited because 2 of the core objects (session,
application) don't scale on web-farms. Those objects must be replaced with
home-brewed or commercial objects if that functionality is wanted on
webfarm. Scalability, multi-tier application building and transactional
applications are possible to be build but the programmer has few tools to
make the task simple. It is just hard work and the programmer must have
experience building such systems in the past to build an effective one
today.
(12)
No debugging tools unless Visual Interdev is editor. Debugging tools are
crude and have limits on how deep they can examine the system. Error
trapping in all languages has severe limits.


ASP+ has 
(1) 
The NGWS Framework which has ALL the facilities needed to build a ROBUST
commercial product of the scope of Office 2000. NGWS is a huge library with
thousand of objects that are self-documenting and can be programatically
interogated. They range from browser interaction to cryptography to GDI/GDI+
libraries. Sockets and Higher-Level constructs.
(2)
3 built in COMPILED languages (has NO scripting languages): VB7 / VBNET,  C#
and JScript / JSNET
(3)
Database support via ADO which communicates with:
   => ODBC and OLEDB databases 
   => XML Streams
   => Binary Streams
   => Programming data structures: Hash-tables, Arrays, Array Lists, etc.
but is loosely coupled so differences between database vendors do not EVER
affect programming model.
Database display NEVER involves loops. Templates, grouped controls, Grids
and many other declarative structures eliminate need for loops and
flexibility is provided so programmer can control all interaction between
templates declaritivity.
(4)
a.
Can consume COM and COM+ objects. 
b.
Can be used to create objects that support interfaces and inheritance.
Languages can inherit and override methods of objects created in DIFFERENT
languages. These can be built with text editors and GUIs are a convenience
not a necessity.
c.
Can make its components into SOAP listeners and proxies with trivial amounts
of work by just setting a few attributes.

(5)
A massive set of built-in components for making GUIs that behave
consistently on a variety of browsers. The programmer does not have learn
about browsers, ASP+ detects the browser and renders the GUI very
differently depending on what browser requests the page.
(6)
The "guts" of the languages and framework are not tied to INTEL or WINDOWS.
The first release is Windows but porting to other computing environments
involves little work.
(7)
Plenty of tools to simplify dealing with diverse browsers. Reduces
programmers workload.
(8)
The ASP+ engine is extremely extensible and high-level utilities called HTTP
Handlers can accomplish the most complex of tasks without inheriting the
ENTIRE ASP+ infastructure or bloat.
(9)
Huge complex applications store their settings and components in ASCII files
and copying these ASCII files from server to server will result in a
perfectly deployed application with no effort. Their are no component
registration tools because components do not make any registry entries nor
do they need to be compiled before being copied to server. All
configuration/security options rely in ASCII/XML files.
(10)
ASP+ worker process assumes all components and code are likely to crash,
leak memory and have bad code (infinite loops, forgetting to advance
recordsets). The ASP+ worker process notices bad code and then isolates the
thread the code is on, allows no new code to run on same thread and then
destroys the thread and all bad code. If code leaks memory, ASP+ worker can
create a new instance of itself to run requests and tear down the previous
instance that has memory leaks without ever rebooting.
(11)
Scalability is a core feature with tons of caching, millisecond timing, etc.
built-in. It scales on web-farms and supports "web gardens" (1 computer with
multiple CPUs). Scalability, multi-tier application building and
transactional applications are trivial to build because the programmer has
many tools to simplify complex tasks. Programmers with little experience and
teams can easily work on complex code and not have trouble integrating
presentation and data thanks to the rendering model.
(12)
Powerful debugging, millisecond timing and profiling are built-in. These can
be done without GUIs and with GUI tools. Error trapping is easy because
there are many error trapping directives (about 8 x as many as Classic ASP).

FINAL NOTE:
.aspx means the page is coded in ASP+

It is pretty amazing. Compare: 
http://www.learnasp.com/learn/dbtable.asp 
and 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/dbtable.aspx 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/columnbinding.aspx 
to see just how different this amazing technology is.

To blow your mind check out: 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/visualinheritance.aspx 
which shows how graphic designers can work on one file and programmers
another SEPARATE file.

Have your heart medicine ready when you see: 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/gridevents.aspx 
Try that in "classic ASP" (our nickname for today's ASP)

Or contrast: 
http://www.learnasp.com/learn/dblist.asp 
and 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/dblist.aspx 
http://www.aspng.com/learn/dblistpagelet.aspx
Capabilities are beyond your wildest imagination. 

http://www.aspng.com/learn/pngmake.aspx 
shows making a PNG file on the fly without 3rd party components for example.

As Scott Guthrie, chief architect of ASP+ would say "that is just the tip of
the iceberg!" 



From peterb at corel.com  Wed Nov  8 15:26:37 2000
From: peterb at corel.com (Peter Barrett)
Date: Wed Nov  8 15:26:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] LiveConnect question
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108084814.00e349d0@mail.bayou.com>
Message-ID: <3A09C633.C920FC91@corel.com>

Hi All,

    I was wondering if anyone had found a way around the Mac/IE problem with
Liveconnect (a netscape technology allowing Java functions in an applet to
execute javascript functions on the hosting HTML page).
    Currently, Microsoft says the Mac/IE JVM doesn't support liveconnect, but I
was wondering if maybe there was a way to explicitly import certain files from
the netscape.javascript package, hosted on the webserver, or other files in the
Java40.jar archive netscape provides that would provide the needed
functionality. Maybe I'm missing something and this is hopeless, but it seems
like it should work...
    ... anyone else tried this? I was hoping to avoid moving a whole site's UI
into java...

thanx,
~pete




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Nov  8 16:11:35 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Nov  8 16:11:35 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
Message-ID: <80256991.0079C1E1.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

ie4.5/Mac renders <br /> correctly, certainly when you have an xHTML
DTD. Have a look at http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ for examples.

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] CSS/HTML question



Suellen,

> For the
> majority of browsers and platforms this works fine but I have just
> discovered that the 4.5 IE Mac browser used by Intermedia @home
> doesn't interpret the <br> tags and therefore throws all of the menu
> items into a single line.

     I'd bet the <br> tags will work if you write them as standard HTML
rather than as XHTML tags (<br> rather than <br />).



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Wed Nov  8 16:14:46 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Wed Nov  8 16:14:46 2000
Subject: [thelist] LiveConnect question
Message-ID: <80256991.0079EE00.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Warning:
NS6 is looking like LiveConnect will drop out of scope for release.

The Mozilla branch *will* support LC.

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] LiveConnect question



Hi All,

    I was wondering if anyone had found a way around the Mac/IE problem with
Liveconnect (a netscape technology allowing Java functions in an applet to
execute javascript functions on the hosting HTML page).
    Currently, Microsoft says the Mac/IE JVM doesn't support liveconnect, but I
was wondering if maybe there was a way to explicitly import certain files from
the netscape.javascript package, hosted on the webserver, or other files in the
Java40.jar archive netscape provides that would provide the needed
functionality. Maybe I'm missing something and this is hopeless, but it seems
like it should work...
    ... anyone else tried this? I was hoping to avoid moving a whole site's UI
into java...

thanx,
~pete


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca  Wed Nov  8 16:31:33 2000
From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy)
Date: Wed Nov  8 16:31:33 2000
Subject: [thelist] Web2000 aftermath articles*
Message-ID: <OFC279B464.85EB5F89-ON85256991.006F2CA6@1.10.196>

> Cool Site in a Day: The Shortest Eight Hours of Our Lives
> http://www.webreview.com/pub/2000/11/06/feature/index03.html
> 
> Find out more about the 2 teams:
> http://netdiver.net/freelance/entranceset.htm

hi carole

sorry to hear you came second

sounds like it was a blast 

i wasted a couple hours this afternoon following up all those links (see 
"emailingering" below)

thanks for sharing 

i didn't want you to think your post was completely overlooked, although 
there's not much else one can say in response besides "thanks for sharing"

your post was in no way off topic, but a "thanks" reply is pretty low on 
the signal-to-noise meter, so here's a tip anyway...

<tip>
"Emailingering describes a particular and common style of avoiding getting anything done 
at work, using your computer and the Internet as both cause and 
justification"
   -- http://www.tbtf.com/jargon-scout.html#emailingering
Jargon Scout is part of TBTF
TBTF ("Tasty Bits from the Technology Front") is highly recommended
</tip>

rudy
r937.com









From icongarden at icongarden.com  Wed Nov  8 18:56:58 2000
From: icongarden at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Wed Nov  8 18:56:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] looking for serious hosting
Message-ID: <20001109005721.PGBA2410.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>

Tom, our purpose isn't to convince you to change  your mind, but rather to share our  own experiences with CIHost to balance yours. I think that serves the purposes best, having informed  opinions on both sides. 

Jake 

P.S. I'm glad you have had good experiencea. Everyone deserves good hosting :)

On Wednesday, November 8, 2000, at 10:34 AM, Tom Webb wrote:

> Again my experience with CIHost is that they responded quickly to any  
> problem we have had.  CIHost had some growing pains and experienced some  
> problems but they have been overcome.  They responded quickly to any  
> problems we have had.  All my customers have not had the experiences with  
> CIHost that you have had.  They have been extremely helpful when setting up  
> the service for all our customers and I find their service people competent  
> and friendly.  I have extensive IT background therefore I have been able to  
> pinpoint the problems that  we have experienced and that helps with all  
> ISPs.  I will still recommend them to my customers. 
> Tom Webb 
>  



From nick at aussieinlondon.com  Wed Nov  8 19:50:57 2000
From: nick at aussieinlondon.com (Nick Koleszar)
Date: Wed Nov  8 19:50:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] migrating from MS Access to SQL Server 7
Message-ID: <000001c0499d$c3d54140$095987d4@internal.netb2b2.com>

how about this?

I need to migrate my MS Access database to SQL Server 7. All my SQL is in
CFM pages. There is only  about 6 tables, no queries, nothing else.

Do I need to know or do anything special to do this? Will I need any of the
books specialising in this work or do I simply need to ensure that I migrate
the Access table structure to SQL Server?


Nick Koleszar
nick at aussieinlondon.com




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  8 20:50:27 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Nov  8 20:50:27 2000
Subject: [thelist] Brainbench Certification
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10011071204310.65181-100000@abraham.ccaa.edu>
References: <009801c048d9$eecba340$5a2730d5@harrypotter>
Message-ID: <3A09C957.9616.1C58A60D@localhost>

i just wanted to address this really quickly...

after seeing people claim to be members of the HTML Writer's 
Guild, which has no stipulations for membership, and no way to 
qualify members and their ability, i've been turned off to certification 
for web skills... so much is based on the needs of a client that you 
can't do it...

qualifying specific languages, though, technical concepts and the 
like, that's easy...

so, yeah, i've looked at their stuff, and it's not bad, but it means 
nothing to me as someone who hires... other than self-confidence 
and a desire to guage oneself (assuming the candidate didn't BS 
it), it's not a factor to me...

if the W3C suddenly were to offer some sort of certification, then i'd 
be all for it...

but then, they do that already via HTML validation... and since 
every project you do can be different, i don't care if you're certified, i 
want to see that your projects are validated, because that 
demonstrates that not only do you know the technical crap, but 
you can apply it...

so, i guess i'd look for a list of validating sites instead of a 
certification...  but i'm kind weird like that...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  8 20:52:59 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Nov  8 20:52:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
In-Reply-To: <3A098D37.D61F91D@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <3A09C9EE.24374.1C5AF404@localhost>

> From:Sam-I-Am <sam at sam-i-am.com>
>
> can we get it (as well as 4,5) up on the browser archive?
> (http://browsers.evolt.org/)

i would, except for a few things...

- you really can't use it without signing up to AOL, so it seems 
kinda pointless...

- i already have been treated as tech support for a lot of these 
browsers (which i am not), and i don't have time to refer people to 
AOL...

- personally, i don't even want to endorse AOL, but that's not a 
factor here...

- we already know the rendering engines for each version, so it 
might be easier to grab the appropriate IE anyway...

- you can't truly get the AOL experience without using their 
proxies... so the browser is only part of it... you need to test the IP 
re-allocations, the image compressions, etc...




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Nov  8 23:24:19 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Nov  8 23:24:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] migrating from MS Access to SQL Server 7
References: <000001c0499d$c3d54140$095987d4@internal.netb2b2.com>
Message-ID: <3A0A29CB.C9B35893@Baratta.com>

Nick Koleszar wrote:
> 
> how about this?
> 
> I need to migrate my MS Access database to SQL Server 7. All my SQL is in
> CFM pages. There is only  about 6 tables, no queries, nothing else.

Like someone said here this earlier week. Use the MS SQL Data Transformation Wizard
to import the table structures from Access into MS SQL. Massage the structures so
that they are typed correctly (Access -> MS SQL converts some of the data types to
pretty screwy things.) Then import the data.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From adrian at logo-logic.com  Wed Nov  8 23:37:39 2000
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Wed Nov  8 23:37:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] html Mail in Perl
Message-ID: <00c901c04a0f$2b284c40$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Hi Gang,

Hey thanks Anthony for the page break thing.  I haven't had a play with it
yet but Ill let you know how it goes when I do.

Heres my question for the day...Is it possible to send html formatted email
from within a perl/mysql dirven program?  Putting the html into the script
itself doesn't work.  I think you need to have some sort of header
information telling it that its html?  If so I don't know how or were.
<snip>
&sendemail($form{'EMAIL'},$config{'admin_address'},"The Subject","
Blah blah foo");
</snip>

Any ideas?

Thanks

Adrian Fischer
Brisbane
Australia






From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov  9 00:09:42 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov  9 00:09:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] html Mail in Perl
References: <00c901c04a0f$2b284c40$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3A0A4003.998D71D6@Baratta.com>

Adrian Fischer wrote:
> 
> Heres my question for the day...Is it possible to send html formatted email
> from within a perl/mysql dirven program?  Putting the html into the script
> itself doesn't work.  I think you need to have some sort of header
> information telling it that its html?  If so I don't know how or were.

You need to format the email so that HTML compliant email readers know the HTML is
embedded into the body of the message.

There a a few places on the net that discuss formatting HTML email. I hope someone
else provides the links - I never kept any of the ones tossed out here for previous
responses to this question.

A quick look at some of the spam I get, shows two ways to format the email.

One is to embed a new email header:

	Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Then the whole email message will be interpreted as HTML.


Two is to allow part for text and part for HTML:

This goes in the header: 

	Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4654AA3D6893237A52FACAAF"

Watch for wrap. Also the boundary is completely made up, but must be used exactly the
same through out the message.

The for the first part of the email you might want a plain text message:

--------------4654AA3D6893237A52FACAAF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Plain test message goes here

--------------4654AA3D6893237A52FACAAF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="name of html file"

HTML goes here


And then you need a boundary to end the message.

--------------4654AA3D6893237A52FACAAF--


Thats the basics in a nutshell.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From erika at seastorm.com  Thu Nov  9 01:19:55 2000
From: erika at seastorm.com (Erika Meyer)
Date: Thu Nov  9 01:19:55 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
In-Reply-To: <80256991.0079C1E1.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
References: <80256991.0079C1E1.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <v04220801b62ff1e964e9@[216.176.7.201]>

I think the whole point behind <br /> ...and any other XHTML tag that 
ends with a space and slash... is that it is supposed to render 
consistently on all browsers.

I'd be curious to know what, if any, platforms have problems with these tags.

Erika

>ie4.5/Mac renders <br /> correctly, certainly when you have an xHTML
>DTD. Have a look at http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ for examples.
>
>Cheers
>Martin

erika at seastorm.com



From adrian at logo-logic.com  Thu Nov  9 02:38:00 2000
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Thu Nov  9 02:38:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] accessing mail in unix(linux)
Message-ID: <019101c04a28$5ec3a040$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Heres another one,

using perl can I access the ".mail" file in my "/" directory.  The idea
being that I open and read it using pattern matching or the like...find what
I want and update a mysql table accordingly.

I can ftp to it and read it but cant seem to telnet to it.  Can get the
directory but the file is hidden(?)

I would be doing a cron job to run the perl script to read the .mail file
ever now and then.

I have the cron job tip from the archives...its the reading the .mail file
with perl thats go me stumped.

Any ideas.


Adrian Fischer
Brisbane
Australia




From sck at biljettpoolen.se  Thu Nov  9 02:58:31 2000
From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook)
Date: Thu Nov  9 02:58:31 2000
Subject: [thelist] accessing mail in unix(linux)
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E5F5@SBS>

Hi Adrian,

you shouldn't have any problem I think. I'm a little confused that you don't
see the file when telnetting to the box. Have you tried "ls -a"? (which
displays all files, even those prefixed with a .)

In your perl script, you should simply be able to open the file using its
full path and name.

Hope this helps.

.steve


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Fischer [mailto:adrian at logo-logic.com]
> Sent: den 9 november 2000 09:38
> To: The List 
> Subject: [thelist] accessing mail in unix(linux)
> 
> 
> Heres another one,
> 
> using perl can I access the ".mail" file in my "/" directory. 
>  The idea
> being that I open and read it using pattern matching or the 
> like...find what
> I want and update a mysql table accordingly.
> 
> I can ftp to it and read it but cant seem to telnet to it.  
> Can get the
> directory but the file is hidden(?)
> 
> I would be doing a cron job to run the perl script to read 
> the .mail file
> ever now and then.
> 
> I have the cron job tip from the archives...its the reading 
> the .mail file
> with perl thats go me stumped.
> 
> Any ideas.
> 
> 
> Adrian Fischer
> Brisbane
> Australia
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From l.lytollis at hughesrae.co.uk  Thu Nov  9 03:01:11 2000
From: l.lytollis at hughesrae.co.uk (Les Lytollis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 03:01:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] set as homepage code
Message-ID: <003401c04a2b$6032b940$6500780a@hughesrae.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm sure this must have been asked before, but I can't find it in the
archives, so here goes.

Is it possible to have a "make this my homepage" button/link for anything
but IE5?

Thanks,
Lez





From chris at lonondweb.net  Thu Nov  9 04:03:29 2000
From: chris at lonondweb.net (Chris Hayes)
Date: Thu Nov  9 04:03:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] Knuckle-headed SQL Question
References: <001c01c0481d$f5abc3a0$02049ad8@michelef> <B62C6199.1EF98%james@designframe.com>
Message-ID: <3a0a7532@fuseware.com>

> > Ron's solution is the same I use for letters Name Like 'A%'.
>
> I'd try
>
> SELECT whatever FROM wherever WHERE Name RLIKE '[0-9].*'
>
> RLIKE, or REGEXP let you use full regex for searches.

Can you do this?  I have never seen REGEXes in SQL, not that I'm any kind of
guru.  Is this in Access2000 SQL?







From persist1_pdx at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  9 06:51:28 2000
From: persist1_pdx at yahoo.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Thu Nov  9 06:51:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
Message-ID: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>

Let me paint for you a scenario:

You are under deadline, and while that deadline is distant your To Do
List leaves you juggling china...

And into the middle of your life strides a personal crisis.

Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your ability to
drive a train of thought when this happens?  (In the past I've had the
luxury of taking time off because I could see it coming, but not this
time.)  Call me a wimp if you like, but in any event advice would be
welcome...



=====
Ben Henick              |  "In the long run, men hit only
Web Author At-Large     |  what they aim at.  Therefore,
www.io.com/persist1/    |  though they should fail
persist1 at io.com         |  immediately, they had better aim
persist1_pdx at yahoo.com  |  high."  --Henry David Thoreau

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From sck at biljettpoolen.se  Thu Nov  9 07:28:00 2000
From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook)
Date: Thu Nov  9 07:28:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS>

I once had the dubious pleasure of working with someone who I also shared a
flat with. At the time, I in fact shared a flat with 7 people, 4 of whom I
worked with, but this particular person and I worked on the same counter at
the particular shop where we were employed. 

It meant in effect that I was with this person around 16 or so hours a day! 

Funnily enough, there would occasionally be a personal quarrel or sometimes
a work dispute that we had to try and resolve in a way that allowed us to
work out the particular problem and at the same time get on with each other
well enough to either work or live together in relatively normal harmony.

We came to the agreement that between us, we would not bring work problems
home and we would not drag private disputes into the workplace. How we
managed this is perhaps harder to explain, but at the end of the day there
must be a divide between your home life and your work life. When you walk
out the door, you have a journey to work where you can paint a mental border
at a particular point. When you cross that border (the entry to your place
of work for instance), you are a professional. It takes an effort of will
certainly, but try playing Jedi Mind Games on yourself and you should be
able to relegate that personal problem to the back of your mind during work
hours.

Of course that's not to say that the problem should be suppressed - that's
not healthy at all, but to lock it away for those 7 hours every day should
be possible and should leave you feeling satisfied at your own
professionalism and ability to cope under adversity. It should also give you
more space when you are back into your personal time to concentrate on the
personal problem at hand, if you are not worrying about how your work is
suffering.

Remember - if you slip, don't beat yourself up over it - we are all only
human after all! But don't let a slip up stop you from continuing to try and
keep your focus on your professional life once you are over that border
line.

Good luck Ben and I hope this helps a little.

.steve


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Henick [mailto:persist1_pdx at yahoo.com]
> Sent: den 9 november 2000 13:52
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
> 
> 
> Let me paint for you a scenario:
> 
> You are under deadline, and while that deadline is distant your To Do
> List leaves you juggling china...
> 
> And into the middle of your life strides a personal crisis.
> 
> Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your 
> ability to
> drive a train of thought when this happens?  (In the past I've had the
> luxury of taking time off because I could see it coming, but not this
> time.)  Call me a wimp if you like, but in any event advice would be
> welcome...



From zoe.oughton at btconnect.com  Thu Nov  9 07:28:45 2000
From: zoe.oughton at btconnect.com (Zoe Oughton)
Date: Thu Nov  9 07:28:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] Checking sites in AOL?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001020181241.009e6d90@mail.nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <B6305458.8A5%zoe.oughton@btconnect.com>

Hi listees

How do people check their sites with an AOL browser, yet without signing up
with AOL??

Can I just download the AOL browser and use than?

TIA

Zoe




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  9 07:39:14 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Nov  9 07:39:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] Checking sites in AOL?
In-Reply-To: <B6305458.8A5%zoe.oughton@btconnect.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001020181241.009e6d90@mail.nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <3A0A60E9.31402.1EA8CF0A@localhost>

> From: Zoe Oughton <zoe.oughton at btconnect.com>
> 
> How do people check their sites with an AOL browser, yet without signing up
> with AOL??
> 
> Can I just download the AOL browser and use than?

i just addressed the problems with this last night in a post about 
the AOL browser... i deleted that, so i'll try to cover it quickly...

- AOL requires you to sign up to use it, which means you gotta 
pay...

- you have to be prepared to test for AOL's unique traits, such as 
image re-compression and very dynamic IP assigning...

- depending on the version of AOL, you can track down the version 
of IE used as its engine... if it's pre-IE, well, you're stuck...

- if you don't want to sign up to AOL, find someone who is an AOL 
user who will allow you to use their system for testing every now 
and then...




From stef at nota-bene.org  Thu Nov  9 07:39:29 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Thu Nov  9 07:39:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
In-Reply-To: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109144208.009e44a0@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: Ben Henick || date: 04:51 09/11/2000 -0800]
>Let me paint for you a scenario:
>
>You are under deadline, and while that deadline is distant your To Do
>List leaves you juggling china...
>
>And into the middle of your life strides a personal crisis.
>
>Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your ability to
>drive a train of thought when this happens?  (In the past I've had the
>luxury of taking time off because I could see it coming, but not this
>time.)  Call me a wimp if you like, but in any event advice would be
>welcome...

Tough question, Ben.

The only time when I had a big personal trouble, I was able to take three 
weeks away from work.

Anyway. you can contact me offline if you want to talk.

s t e f




From george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk  Thu Nov  9 08:18:49 2000
From: george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk (George Dillon)
Date: Thu Nov  9 08:18:49 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS>
Message-ID: <003201c04a57$f4cd9da0$ecc82cc3@athlon800>

I received some Spam today which I consider Spam, but which bore the
following footnote:

"Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by 105th U. S. Congress this mail can
not be considered Spam as long as we include contact information
and a remove link for removal from our mailing list. To be removed from our
mailing list reply with remove in the subject heading. "

According to this Spam, I have now broken U.S. law by considering the
aforementioned Spam to be Spam.  Or have I?  Is there such a law?  Not that
I give 2 hoots about breaking U.S. laws, but I'm rather curious.

George Dillon

FWIW. The Spam was from 'a140497 AT infovia.com.ar' (KWIM) and it was about
how to avoid radiation from cell phones.

BTW. Did I mention that it was Spam?



<tip type="freeware">

Just out - an amazing new FREEWARE app called SpyGuru

http://ilia.reznik.home.mindspring.com/spyguru.htm

I don't normally do this - recommend programs I haven't tried out myself for
at least a month - but IMHO this is a truly exceptional example of FREEWARE
at its very best.

Here is how it describes itself:

<snip>

This program integrates many features of famous Spy++, NT-PerfMon, PView,
Monitor, Norton Utilities for Windows-9x, Agent, Capture, MemTurbo, etc,
contains friendly hex editor. In addition, it has a lot of unique
properties.

The application contains quite powerful Task Manager allowing termination of
processes, releasing DLL, getting information about modules used by process,
it's environment, windows of process. It allows capture windows and menus.
Programmer or system administrator can study history or time-dependence of
not only usual performance counters but near arbitrary value which can be
measured as long integer number from inside address space of selected
process. You can easy investigate changes in file system or in the registry.

Unlike a majority of utilities of such a kind the SpyGuru works both under
Windows 9x and Windows NT.

</snip>

</tip>




From jamie at bayou.com  Thu Nov  9 08:41:59 2000
From: jamie at bayou.com (Jamie Madden)
Date: Thu Nov  9 08:41:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001109084025.00e3abb0@mail.bayou.com>

Is it common practice among developers to charge a client a penalty for the 
late delivery of content if the date for that content delivery was 
specifically stated in the contract?  I'm having an incredibly hard time 
getting some clients to deliver content in a timely manner and it's costing 
me money in the long run by halting productivity.

Also, I asked this question yesterday to no avail.  Does anyone know, on 
average, how much an ad view is worth.

Thanks guys.

jamie




From sck at biljettpoolen.se  Thu Nov  9 09:02:19 2000
From: sck at biljettpoolen.se (Steve Cook)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:02:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E606@SBS>

Hi Jamie,

it's not very common practise - the majority of clients tend to frown upon
being charged for such things. Unfortunately it's a difficult problem to
solve at times. Careful project management from an early stage can help
manage the problem and also alert a contractor to a potential future
problem. However once you are past that stage it's down to good old
fashioned politics.

Having come across the problem several times, I have usually tackled it by
sitting with my primary client contact and firstly discussing the problem.
Make it clear that if the problem dowsn't resolve itself within a clear
timeframe you will be forced to put a hold on the project until the material
has arrived. Alternatively, you may discuss the possibility of going ahead
and launching with the areas where content has arrived and then adding in
the other areas once all the content is in.

It helps to produce a clear content requirements list for the client. You
could use this as the basis for the meeting. Often your main contact will be
all too willing to help, but other people in the organisation are slowing
things up. In this case, discuss all the possibilities with your main
contact. Generally, threatening to fine won't produce any results, but a
diplomatically posed deadline with the penalty being that you are going to
focus your resources on your more forthcoming clients may produce better
results.

Regarding your question about advertising, I loked at that yesterday and
decided that there was no answer! You ask to disregard all the factors that
actually decide an advert's price. Without taking such metrics as audience
figures, targetting, location etc into account there is no value to the
advert. Sorry, but you would really need to be more specific in the
question.

I hope all this helps

.steve


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamie Madden [mailto:jamie at bayou.com]
> Sent: den 9 november 2000 15:44
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Penalties
> 
> 
> Is it common practice among developers to charge a client a 
> penalty for the 
> late delivery of content if the date for that content delivery was 
> specifically stated in the contract?  I'm having an 
> incredibly hard time 
> getting some clients to deliver content in a timely manner 
> and it's costing 
> me money in the long run by halting productivity.
> 
> Also, I asked this question yesterday to no avail.  Does 
> anyone know, on 
> average, how much an ad view is worth.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> jamie
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From donnajj at gwi.net  Thu Nov  9 09:14:59 2000
From: donnajj at gwi.net (Donna Jones)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:14:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] Checking sites in AOL?
References: <B6305458.8A5%zoe.oughton@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <3A0ABF8C.2FBA73A3@gwi.net>

I signed up with AOL to be able to check things.  Really didn't want to
give them any money, though I think I could keep connected for as low as
around $10 a month, maybe even less - not sure.  

Anyway, whenever I would call to cancel (and I put it on my calendar to
make sure I didn't forget) they would give me another month free.  I
would make sure I got a confirming e-mail for this, just in case it
ended up in an "argument" and made sure to check my credit card, also! 
This has been going on for four months.  

I think I can probably "resign" and then "re-sign" up again a few months
down the road, but haven't got that far yet.

Best wishes,
Donna


Zoe Oughton wrote:
> 
> Hi listees
> 
> How do people check their sites with an AOL browser, yet without signing up
> with AOL??
> 
> Can I just download the AOL browser and use than?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Zoe
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donna Jones: 207.772.0266
Home Site:  http://www.westendwebs.com
Have you been to the hunger site ( http://thehungersite.com/ ) today?



From em at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 09:18:03 2000
From: em at members.evolt.org (Emily Christensen)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:18:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001109084025.00e3abb0@mail.bayou.com>
Message-ID: <002501c04a71$64d64de0$0201a8c0@KSCABLE.com>

From: "Jamie Madden" <jamie at bayou.com>

> Also, I asked this question yesterday to no avail.  Does anyone know, on
> average, how much an ad view is worth.

I have heard US$30 - $45 per 1000 views as a general rule. The amount of
money varies depending on the audience and how targeted the audience is.

I am not an expert on this issue, but that should give you some idea.

Emily

~
project of the moment:
http://www.colleenjameson.com/




From donnajj at gwi.net  Thu Nov  9 09:29:14 2000
From: donnajj at gwi.net (Donna Jones)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:29:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS> <003201c04a57$f4cd9da0$ecc82cc3@athlon800>
Message-ID: <3A0AC2E2.982F298B@gwi.net>

Here's a site I just found that looks good.
http://www.cauce.org/legislation/s1618_hr3888.shtml  
These folks thought it was a bad idea.

It looks like it was in fact legislation that was considered but that
got killed.  Not totally sure if that's the last word on it or not
though.

Donna



George Dillon wrote:
> 
> I received some Spam today which I consider Spam, but which bore the
> following footnote:
> 
> "Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by 105th U. S. Congress this mail can
> not be considered Spam as long as we include contact information
> and a remove link for removal from our mailing list. To be removed from our
> mailing list reply with remove in the subject heading. "
> 
> According to this Spam, I have now broken U.S. law by considering the
> aforementioned Spam to be Spam.  Or have I?  Is there such a law?  Not that
> I give 2 hoots about breaking U.S. laws, but I'm rather curious.
> 
> George Dillon
> 
> FWIW. The Spam was from 'a140497 AT infovia.com.ar' (KWIM) and it was about
> how to avoid radiation from cell phones.
> 
> BTW. Did I mention that it was Spam?
> 
> <tip type="freeware">
> 
> Just out - an amazing new FREEWARE app called SpyGuru
> 
> http://ilia.reznik.home.mindspring.com/spyguru.htm
> 
> I don't normally do this - recommend programs I haven't tried out myself for
> at least a month - but IMHO this is a truly exceptional example of FREEWARE
> at its very best.
> 
> Here is how it describes itself:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> This program integrates many features of famous Spy++, NT-PerfMon, PView,
> Monitor, Norton Utilities for Windows-9x, Agent, Capture, MemTurbo, etc,
> contains friendly hex editor. In addition, it has a lot of unique
> properties.
> 
> The application contains quite powerful Task Manager allowing termination of
> processes, releasing DLL, getting information about modules used by process,
> it's environment, windows of process. It allows capture windows and menus.
> Programmer or system administrator can study history or time-dependence of
> not only usual performance counters but near arbitrary value which can be
> measured as long integer number from inside address space of selected
> process. You can easy investigate changes in file system or in the registry.
> 
> Unlike a majority of utilities of such a kind the SpyGuru works both under
> Windows 9x and Windows NT.
> 
> </snip>
> 
> </tip>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donna Jones: 207.772.0266
Home Site:  http://www.westendwebs.com
Have you been to the hunger site ( http://thehungersite.com/ ) today?



From joelf at dmv.com  Thu Nov  9 09:33:28 2000
From: joelf at dmv.com (Joel Firestone)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:33:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Select problem on Mac in NN
Message-ID: <3a0ac316$1@fuseware.com>

Everyone:

Has anyone using a Netscape in Mac had a problem where a select box
has options that are all garbled? Instead of:

John
Jim
Joan
Joanne

I get:

John    Jim    Jo
an    Joanne

But then it gets to a certian point and works fine, displaying each on their
own line. I'm using Cold Fusion to query a database and simply populate the
select box with options.

Any ideas? I'm stumped. Or is it just a bug in NN on a Mac? Cuz it works
fine in IE. And both versions work fine in Netscape.

Thanks.

=========================
Joel Firestone - Lead Developer
Delmarva Online Web Development
http://www.dmv.com/





From aphelan at confederationc.on.ca  Thu Nov  9 09:51:54 2000
From: aphelan at confederationc.on.ca (aphelan (Andrea Phelan))
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:51:54 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
Message-ID: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E3B@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>

As for penalties, I have never put them to use, I have never really found
not having content to cost me money though, if I run out of work to do, I
simply halt production. As a general rule, I set a deadline for content from
the client, and a deadline for contract completion, and the contract
completion date is pushed back as the content receival is delayed.

A Solution:

I find this little trick to be very effective, since I started implementing
it I have been getting content about 80% more faithfully than prior to.

Only ask for a little bit of content at a time. Often a client finds it very
discouraging to view all at once all of the content they have to deliver,
alot of clients go into the project expecting you to do all the work. At the
beginning, hand them an overview of all the content that will be needed, but
then set little dates. Tell them one day that you will need the content for
'section 1' at the end of the week, and at the end of that week, ok, i'll
need the content for 'section 2' by the end of the week, pacing this to
whatever your deadline is. Its a little bit of client psychofreeky. They
tend to put off developing content when its one big task, as opposed to many
little tasks :)

Annie


>I'm having an incredibly hard time 
getting some clients to deliver content in a timely manner and it's costing 
me money in the long run by halting productivity.


____________________________
Andrea Phelan
Web Developer/Technician
Confederation College



From sgd at ti3.com  Thu Nov  9 09:52:45 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:52:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6A1@gate.ti3.com>

I muscle through the best I can. Get a pair of headphones, don't answer the
phone (even if its her) and get your time in, and get out for the day.
Change your music. Self-impose a surfing ban (and evolt if you have to)
until you get yer shit done. These 9 hours are for working, the rest of the
day is for the other stuff.

Its tough, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do

I also told my boss what was going on, which helps soften the deadline
sometimes (and even gets the To-Do list spread around to others in some
cases)

sgd (in the middle of breaking up with his g/f of 3 1/2 yrs and dad's in the
hospital this week)
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Henick [mailto:persist1_pdx at yahoo.com]
> 
> Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your 
> ability to
> drive a train of thought when this happens?  (In the past I've had the
> luxury of taking time off because I could see it coming, but not this
> time.)  Call me a wimp if you like, but in any event advice would be
> welcome...



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov  9 09:54:26 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:54:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
Message-ID: <80256992.0056C6FB.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

I would think (not knowing the legislation in question, but on 'sensible'
expectations) that they've missed off "with which we will comply".

Or is that childish optimism?

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] Is this spam or not?



I received some Spam today which I consider Spam, but which bore the
following footnote:

"Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by 105th U. S. Congress this mail can
not be considered Spam as long as we include contact information
and a remove link for removal from our mailing list. To be removed from our
mailing list reply with remove in the subject heading. "

According to this Spam, I have now broken U.S. law by considering the
aforementioned Spam to be Spam.  Or have I?  Is there such a law?  Not that
I give 2 hoots about breaking U.S. laws, but I'm rather curious.

George Dillon



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From sebastien at oven.com  Thu Nov  9 09:56:03 2000
From: sebastien at oven.com (Seb Barre)
Date: Thu Nov  9 09:56:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] Select problem on Mac in NN
In-Reply-To: <3a0ac316$1@fuseware.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109105250.02356190@pop.oven.com>

At 10:32 AM 11/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Everyone:
>
>Has anyone using a Netscape in Mac had a problem where a select box
>has options that are all garbled? Instead of:
>
>John
>Jim
>Joan
>Joanne
>
>I get:
>
>John    Jim    Jo
>an    Joanne
>
>But then it gets to a certian point and works fine, displaying each on their
>own line. I'm using Cold Fusion to query a database and simply populate the
>select box with options.
>
>Any ideas? I'm stumped. Or is it just a bug in NN on a Mac? Cuz it works
>fine in IE. And both versions work fine in Netscape.

The only thing I could suggest without seeing the source would be to make 
sure that each <option> has a </option> closing tag.  Browsers don't 
require this as far as I know (I've seen many pages that don't have them 
and work fine), but it's good practice to include it.


--- -- -
Seb Barre - seb at oven.com
OVEN Digital Toronto
Work: 416-595-9750 x 222
Mobile: 416-254-5078
http://www.oven.com/




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  9 10:26:10 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Nov  9 10:26:10 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001109084025.00e3abb0@mail.bayou.com>
Message-ID: <200011091626.eA9GQ9h23955@farmer.oracular.com>

> From: Jamie Madden <jamie at bayou.com>
>
> Is it common practice among developers to charge a client a penalty for the 
> late delivery of content if the date for that content delivery was 
> specifically stated in the contract?  I'm having an incredibly hard time 
> getting some clients to deliver content in a timely manner and it's costing 
> me money in the long run by halting productivity.

i don't charge, but it does go into the project plan and agreement... 
the client signs off on it knowing that for every day they don't deliver 
something i need, that's one day later it will be... once the client 
misses deadlines and expects it in the same timeframe, however, 
that's a rush job, which is out of scope, which gets an appropriate 
% increase for rush work...

> Also, I asked this question yesterday to no avail.  Does anyone know, on 
> average, how much an ad view is worth.

i can't answer that... there is no average... an average among 
certain sites, or among guaranteed views is another thing...



From bharoche at usa.net  Thu Nov  9 10:32:17 2000
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Nov  9 10:32:17 2000
Subject: [thelist] Checking sites in AOL?
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001020181241.009e6d90@mail.nota-bene.org> <3A0A60E9.31402.1EA8CF0A@localhost>
Message-ID: <006a01c04a6a$acbe10e0$9896ccd1@desktop>

You can install the AOL browser without signing up, and then use File | Open
to browse to a file on your hard drive.  Like Aardvark says, though, you're
not getting the full AOL nightmare...er, experience.  Image compression,
proxy caching and other AOL network issues probably won't be simulated.

You can get an AOL account for $5/month (for 5 or 10 hours a month, I forget
which).  That's not bad, and probably enough time to get your tesing done.
If you're forced to be on dial up (as I am), it's also nice to have a back
up connection when your regular ISP is acting flaky.




From matthew.garrett at snet.net  Thu Nov  9 10:35:57 2000
From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett)
Date: Thu Nov  9 10:35:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
In-Reply-To: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B6303DE9.502%matthew.garrett@snet.net>

It all depends on the personal crisis.
If it is literally a life or death matter (for you, or someone you love),
then life wins - and work gets handed off. If it's more of an emotional
thing, then it's a different and more difficult issue.

Just over a year ago, I broke my neck on the first day of vacation. I was
lucky enough to retain the use of all my body parts, and could even resume
limited business the following week. I could participate in phone meetings,
I could think, but I could NOT sit in front of a computer and accomplish
anything. It was physically difficult, and mentally unworthwhile. It was
months before I could be productive for more than a few hours a day. My
clients were quite understanding, of course (broken necks are great for
sympathy amd wow! factor). Anyway, the experience reminded me that life is
more important than work. It wasn't my work that got me through the spot, it
was my friends and family - my life. People who were willing to put little
parts of their lives on hold to help me.

On the other hand, during an emotional crisis two years ago (read:
spectacularly doomed relationship), I just tried to keep my head down and
grind through work, but I wasn't that busy at the time - and even then, the
train of thought was easily de-railed. Plus, I had no choice, there was
nothing else I could do.
If spending time on the crisis can change the outcome, then decide how much
it means to you, and how to do it. If there's a will... and all that.

best of luck,
matt

> 
> Let me paint for you a scenario:
> 
> You are under deadline, and while that deadline is distant your To Do
> List leaves you juggling china...
> 
> And into the middle of your life strides a personal crisis.
> 
> Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your ability to
> drive a train of thought when this happens?  (In the past I've had the
> luxury of taking time off because I could see it coming, but not this
> time.)  Call me a wimp if you like, but in any event advice would be
> welcome...
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Ben Henick              |  "In the long run, men hit only
> Web Author At-Large     |  what they aim at.  Therefore,
> www.io.com/persist1/    |  though they should fail
> persist1 at io.com         |  immediately, they had better aim
> persist1_pdx at yahoo.com  |  high."  --Henry David Thoreau
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 




From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu  Thu Nov  9 10:38:14 2000
From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye)
Date: Thu Nov  9 10:38:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS/HTML question
In-Reply-To: <80256991.0079C1E1.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <3A0A7E2F.11115.22644C@localhost>

Thanks to all who answered my question. I still don't know if 
replacing <br /> with <br> has resolved my problem because the 
friend I asked to look at it for me forgot to last night. The page 
renders fine with IE4.5Mac, just not the @Home version of 
IE4.5Mac (PC version seems to work fine). If anyone has this 
configuration and can look at it for me, let me know if the problem 
is fixed. I only ran into it when I was at a Science Museum and 
decided to call up the page to see how it looked. Boy was that a 
bad surprise. Once I find out,  I'll let you know. If not I guess I'll 
have to look deeper. 

Thanks again, 
Suellen 

From:           	<martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com>
Date sent:      	Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:10:54 +0000
Subject:        	RE: [thelist] CSS/HTML question
To:             	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Send reply to:  	thelist at lists.evolt.org



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

ie4.5/Mac renders <br /> correctly, certainly when you have an 
xHTML
DTD. Have a look at http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ for examples.

Cheers
Martin




Suellen Stringer-Hye
Jean and Alexander Heard Library
Vanderbilt University
stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu



From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Thu Nov  9 10:50:13 2000
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Thu Nov  9 10:50:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
References: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3A0AD5E0.819AB492@acu.ac.uk>

Hi Ben,

> Just wanted to know:  how do y'all on the list preserve your ability to
> drive a train of thought when this happens?  

well, i'm not sure about how to drive a train of thought under stressful
conditions, but I wanted to point out that you need to take especially
good care of yourself at times like this, else you'll end up getting ill
(and thereby making the deadline harder = more stress = more ill etc.
etc.).

Get plenty of rest - even if you're not sleeping too good, take time to
veg in front of the telly, read a book, meditate, have a long bath.  if
you must stay up late working, get one early night for every late one
(and sleeping all weekend doesn't count - studies show this can leave
you feeling worse - like a kinda jetlag). a milky drink b4 bed can make
you drowsy - a natural alternative to sleeping pills

Cut down on caffeine (coffee, tea, coke + chocolate) - i know it's no
fun, but it will help you sleep better and not weaken your immune
system.

Eat properly. Try to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner (not at your
desk!), at regular times - and don't eat for at least an hour before
bed. if you're not getting enough vitamins and minerals (fruit +
veggies) take a supplement - it's not as good, but better than nothing. 
Eat high energy foods like pasta, bread, bananas and avoid too much
processed sugar.

A regular form of moderate exercise 30-60 minutes a day is good for
keeping your body in good condition (and better able to fight off
germs). yoga is great for relaxing or walk to the shops in your lunch
hour (be sure to take some time away from your desk each day).

Lecture over!  I don't manage all this myself btw (i'm no saint :-), but
working on a recent project (which was more pressurized that my normal
stuff) I managed to make myself sick, and the above is a potted version
of GP advice + common sense.

hope it works out ok.
take care,
Katherine



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Nov  9 11:19:59 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:19:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] html Mail in Perl
Message-ID: <80256992.00464F7F.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

2 part emails are becoming pretty much standard for large companies
doing outbound email campaigns.

If you look at the x-headers, you'll probably see a credit for either Kana or
ePiphany who are the 2 big vendors for outbound email systems.

The reason for this is that clickthrough rates are *way* better for HTML email,
although it doesn't take into account that those who dislike it (probably most
of us) are *really* pissed off about it.

The other thing you might see is plain text emails with an HTML part containing
only a single-pixel gif. This will test your capability to receive HTML email,
so
will allow the site to (preferably) know whether to offer you the option of
HTML.
Alternatively (slightly worse), they may set your default to HTML, giving you
that until you express another preference. Or (worst) just send you HTML mail
only.

fwiw anyone buying one of these 2 will be of the size to have sensible
advisors, who *should* have directed the operators towards Seth Godin's
Permission Marketing. This essentially says that if a customer hasn't given
you permission to contact them in a given manner, then don't do it, and that
Spam is the lowest of the low.

In the EU, data protection is a matter of law anyway, and the EUCommission
is being steered towards anti-spam legislation, which will probably fall in
favour of opt-in.

Both Kana and ePiphany will integrate with other systems to register and make
use of your profile, so you can both set preferences and get customised content.

For example, if I register for email info from a wine site, it will quite
quickly realise
that I'll be interested in Barolo at under a tenner a bottle and Barbera d'Asti
and
Pinot Grigio in general, plus similar varieties. On the other hand, I can't
*stand*
New World Chardonnay - it's wayyyy too buttery for me. Theoretically, this
will be reflected in the content delivered to me, whether specific offers, or
non-
product editorial.

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] html Mail in Perl



Adrian Fischer wrote:
>
> Heres my question for the day...Is it possible to send html formatted email
> from within a perl/mysql dirven program?  Putting the html into the script
> itself doesn't work.  I think you need to have some sort of header
> information telling it that its html?  If so I don't know how or were.

You need to format the email so that HTML compliant email readers know the HTML
is
embedded into the body of the message.

There a a few places on the net that discuss formatting HTML email. I hope
someone
else provides the links - I never kept any of the ones tossed out here for
previous
responses to this question.

A quick look at some of the spam I get, shows two ways to format the email.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  9 11:34:00 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:34:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] idealab is cool...
Message-ID: <200011091733.eA9HXxh25007@farmer.oracular.com>

"IdeaLab Needs New Ideas"

"Idealab has been hailed for its insight and 
success in birthing Internet companies. Times 
are changing. 

"Two of its incubatees, Scout Electromedia, 
which produced the Modo wireless handheld 
devices and the accompanying Modo.net city guide 
service, and Eve.com, a beauty website, shut 
down at the end of October, both for lack of 
funding. Eve.com ran for almost a year and a 
half. Scout Electromedia shut down only months 
after releasing its first handheld devices. 

"Since then, WeddingChannel.com, a marketplace 
for wedding planning, lost its CEO, Rebecca 
Patton. Patton was CEO of DellaWeddings, which
merged with WeddingChannel last spring. Three 
members of her executive team resigned with her. 

"Z.com, an entertainment site, laid off half of 
its staff of 100 earlier in October, when it was 
unable to turn a profit. Web marketing network 
FirstLook.com laid off 34 of its 100 employees 
after an unsuccessful shift from the B-to-C to B-
to-B market. 

"Most recently, last Monday Frontera Corp, which 
has changed its name from HomePage.com, laid off 
30 out of 105 employees.--Jill Morneau, TechWeb 
News"

http://www.internetweek.com/story/INW20001107S000
2

also...
http://fuckedcompany.com/idealab.html

and i'm sure everyone's heard about pets.com, 
even trying to sell their sock puppet...



From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 11:36:05 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:36:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] JSP or PHP web mail
Message-ID: <B6304ACC.A816%bobd@members.evolt.org>

I'm trying to find a web mail implementation in either PHP or JSP that I can
set up on our server that will allow us to check and send mail from a web
page.  Ideally, it would know IMAP and LDAP.

Any ideas on where I might find such a thing? I'd rather have a JSP/Servlet
based solution, but PHP will do.  Either way I have to (get to) learn a
bunch of new stuff.

TIA

bob

-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From sam at sam-i-am.com  Thu Nov  9 11:51:07 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:51:07 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
References: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com> <3A0AD5E0.819AB492@acu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3A0AE395.68062F60@sam-i-am.com>

Katherine Spice wrote:
> 
> Hi Ben,
.. 

great post. 
I had similar advice once from my dad, when I was in the middle of a
spectacular and never-to-be repeated 120 hour week crunch. 
He said: step outside and walk around a bit. See those things with heads
and 2 legs? they're people. Talk to them.

Katherine - could you wrap your post in a tip tag for the harvester?

Sam



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Thu Nov  9 11:56:41 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:56:41 2000
Subject: [thelist] AOL
References: <3A09C9EE.24374.1C5AF404@localhost>
Message-ID: <3A0AE4E6.3168FDB4@sam-i-am.com>

agreed to all of this, but short of rumaging through the trash, I have
no way of getting hold of the older versions of the software if I do
need to test.

> - you really can't use it without signing up to AOL, so it seems
> kinda pointless...

We have an office account we use just for testing. As should we all IMO. 

> - personally, i don't even want to endorse AOL, but that's not a
> factor here...

> - we already know the rendering engines for each version, so it
> might be easier to grab the appropriate IE anyway...

So maybe the aol section doesn't provide downloads, but just crosslinks
to those IE versions? Whatever works

> - you can't truly get the AOL experience without using their
> proxies... so the browser is only part of it... you need to test the IP
> re-allocations, the image compressions, etc...

But you still have to get the browser from somewhere to begin this
process. 

anyhow, I still think it would be useful. 
It's ultimately up to you...

sam



From stef at nota-bene.org  Thu Nov  9 11:59:58 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Thu Nov  9 11:59:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] JSP or PHP web mail
In-Reply-To: <B6304ACC.A816%bobd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109190621.009dd160@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: Bob Davis || date: 12:36 09/11/2000 -0500]

>I'm trying to find a web mail implementation in either PHP or JSP that I can
>set up on our server that will allow us to check and send mail from a web
>page.  Ideally, it would know IMAP and LDAP.
>
>Any ideas on where I might find such a thing? I'd rather have a JSP/Servlet
>based solution, but PHP will do.  Either way I have to (get to) learn a
>bunch of new stuff.


Freshmeat.net will do the trick :-)





From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 12:11:40 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:11:40 2000
Subject: [thelist] JSP or PHP web mail
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109190621.009dd160@mail.nota-bene.org>
Message-ID: <B6305324.A820%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/9/00 1:06 PM, s t e f at stef at nota-bene.org wrote:

> 
> Freshmeat.net will do the trick :-)

Awesome resource - Thanks.

I can't believe I never went through this site before!  I bet I'll find it
here.

bob

-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From a.r.mccoy at larc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov  9 12:28:27 2000
From: a.r.mccoy at larc.nasa.gov (Alan McCoy)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:28:27 2000
Subject: [thelist] JSP or PHP web mail
In-Reply-To: <B6304ACC.A816%bobd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBKHCFALMIJBBODIKBGEKNCAAA.a.r.mccoy@larc.nasa.gov>

Aeromail is about the slickest webmail system I've seen on Freshmeat so far.
Uses IMAP & PHP(3 or 4).

http://the.cushman.net/reverb/aeromail/

Alan

> I'm trying to find a web mail implementation in either PHP or JSP
> that I can
> set up on our server that will allow us to check and send mail from a web
> page.  Ideally, it would know IMAP and LDAP.
>
> Any ideas on where I might find such a thing? I'd rather have a
> JSP/Servlet
> based solution, but PHP will do.  Either way I have to (get to) learn a
> bunch of new stuff.




From aphelan at confederationc.on.ca  Thu Nov  9 12:32:50 2000
From: aphelan at confederationc.on.ca (aphelan (Andrea Phelan))
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:32:50 2000
Subject: [thelist] Starting a Webusiness
Message-ID: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E3D@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>

I have been working in web development for about 6 years in contract,
freelance, corporate and educational design.
I'm about to begin the process of starting my own company, and I was
wondering if anyone out there had any tips and tricks they may have picked
up along the way that would be useful.

Thanks!

Annie



From BillyH at phx.effectnet.net  Thu Nov  9 12:36:37 2000
From: BillyH at phx.effectnet.net (Billy Hutton)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:36:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
Message-ID: <71CDFFA73DA9D311AE2B0050DA7142D624B843@ATHM-209-219-xxx-25.home.net>

When my business got big enough to require contracts for each site we did,
we did put in a clause regarding penalties for our customer failing to
deliver content, or any other material required by us for site development.


Most customers had a problem with it, and would ask us why it was there.
That gave us the chance to tell them how important their deliverables were
to us for meeting their deadlines.  We also had a clause that released us
from our deadlines if the customers deliverables slipped.

- Billy



From BillyH at phx.effectnet.net  Thu Nov  9 12:44:43 2000
From: BillyH at phx.effectnet.net (Billy Hutton)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:44:43 2000
Subject: [thelist] Starting a Webusiness
Message-ID: <71CDFFA73DA9D311AE2B0050DA7142D624B844@ATHM-209-219-xxx-25.home.net>

My biggest tip is more of a warning, but it might be something to think
about.  I had a successful web / consulting business that I ran out of my
home for close to three years.  This meant I didn't have a professional
office space to meet with clients, so I always went on-site, or did lunch
meetings.

When I opened an office, I never saw a penny of the money we made.  

Definitely sit down and write a business plan, then write a budget to get
your business plan off the ground.  

- Billy



From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 12:46:47 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:46:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] JSP or PHP web mail
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKHCFALMIJBBODIKBGEKNCAAA.a.r.mccoy@larc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <B6305B4F.A826%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/9/00 1:29 PM, Alan McCoy at a.r.mccoy at larc.nasa.gov wrote:

> Aeromail is about the slickest webmail system I've seen on Freshmeat so far.
> Uses IMAP & PHP(3 or 4).
> 
> http://the.cushman.net/reverb/aeromail/

I'm looking hard at that one and this one:

http://freshmeat.net/projects/webmail/?highlight=java+mail

We have a lot of Java expertise in house, but no PHP expertise, so I'm kind
of leaning toward the Java solution.

PHP looks kind of neat though.

Does anyone have an opinion on PHP vs. JSP/Servlets?

bob


-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From joelf at dmv.com  Thu Nov  9 12:53:28 2000
From: joelf at dmv.com (Joel Firestone)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:53:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Select problem on Mac in NN
References: <3a0ac316$1@fuseware.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20001109105250.02356190@pop.oven.com>
Message-ID: <3a0af14d$1@fuseware.com>

Seb:

Thanks. That was the first thing I tried. But thanks for the suggestion. : )

Joel

: The only thing I could suggest without seeing the source would be to make
: sure that each <option> has a </option> closing tag.  Browsers don't
: require this as far as I know (I've seen many pages that don't have them
: and work fine), but it's good practice to include it.





From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  9 12:55:28 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Nov  9 12:55:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Starting a Webusiness
In-Reply-To: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E3D@cc-exchange.Confederationc.On.Ca>
Message-ID: <200011091855.eA9ItQh26562@farmer.oracular.com>

> From: "aphelan (Andrea Phelan)" 
<aphelan at confederationc.on.ca>
>
> I have been working in web development for about 6 years in contract,
> freelance, corporate and educational design.
> I'm about to begin the process of starting my own company, and I was
> wondering if anyone out there had any tips and tricks they may have picked
> up along the way that would be useful.

talk to an accountant before a lawyer... do business under your 
own name, as a dba (doing business as), and consider 
incorporating a business as your name (make taxes easier to be a 
corporation of some sort, makes it easy to do biz as yourself, but 
still have legal protection as a business)...

other stuff...



From twebb at dynamicinst.com  Thu Nov  9 15:13:11 2000
From: twebb at dynamicinst.com (Tom Webb)
Date: Thu Nov  9 15:13:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] Starting a Webusiness
In-Reply-To: <C091D44DD8F2D211A6460000F8082B37014D0E3D@cc-exchange.Confe
 derationc.On.Ca>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001109131239.00955f00@mailserver>

I have started few companies.  Get in touch with an Attorney and CPA first 
before you do anything.  This is especially important so that you can 
determine which kind of business you want to be, Sole Proprietorship, 
Limited or General Partnership, Corporation, Etc.  There are federal, state 
and county documents to submit and your CPA and Attorney can inform you of 
what these are.  The US Small Business Administration has a lot of 
resources for starting a small business, do's and don'ts etc.  Check their 
web site.
Tom Webb

At 01:33 PM 11/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I have been working in web development for about 6 years in contract,
>freelance, corporate and educational design.
>I'm about to begin the process of starting my own company, and I was
>wondering if anyone out there had any tips and tricks they may have picked
>up along the way that would be useful.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Annie
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Thu Nov  9 15:18:22 2000
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Thu Nov  9 15:18:22 2000
Subject: [thelist] LiveConnect question
Message-ID: <v02140b07b630c3d906cd@[10.11.1.171]>

At 1:31 PM 11/8/0, Peter Barrett wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone had found a way around the Mac/IE
> problem with Liveconnect

Sorry, no... IE/Mac doesn't offer a way for its scripts to talk with
objects in its pages.


Sidenotes:

--  LiveConnect is Netscape's pioneering way of doing this, requiring Java,
and supported in 3.0 versions or greater.

--  IE3/Win was the first Microsoft browser to support a *parallel*
ability, where VBScript could talk with ActiveX Controls.

--  IE5/Mac is the first IE/Mac that lets JScript query which plugins are
installed, but this is different than sending or receiving messages between
JScript and plugins.

--  Some IE/Mac versions can support "javascript:" style pseudo-URLs from
plugins, but not all versions do... spotty.
    (They all support such URLs from the HTML page itself... it's from
objects in the page where support is catch-as-catch can.)

--  If you're trying to communicate with a Java applet, then last time I
checked IE/Win could talk to applets, but would only hear events from
ActiveX Controls... MS docs used to recommend recompiling the Java applet
as a COM ActiveX Control, which sorta missed the point.... ;-)
    (This may have changed in recent versions without my knowledge... hard
to find this info either way, considering that Java VMs are often large
plugins now.)

--  The Mozilla project overhauls Netscape's original LiveConnect method,
and plugins will need to be recompiled for these new environments once
released.


jd






John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From seb at admin.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 15:33:23 2000
From: seb at admin.evolt.org (Seb)
Date: Thu Nov  9 15:33:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
References: <80256992.0056C6FB.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <013901c04a94$bba71b40$ac32a8c0@issntdev57>

George (and all other Europeans out there),

You might be interested to know that the EU's Data Protection Working Group
is currently considering proposals to make sending of unsolicited email an
illegal activity within the EU.

The Register has a good article
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14588.html) on this, with relevant
links.

What's good about this is that it would make it a crime to send Spam to an
EU citizen, regardless of the source.


Seb.




From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Thu Nov  9 15:54:26 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Thu Nov  9 15:54:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001109131239.00955f00@mailserver>
Message-ID: <003f01c04a9a$50fe5c80$a401410a@tracyc>

Hello All,
having a problem with font size on a MAC IE 5.0 browser. In the style sheet
the font is set to a fixed size (9pt) but on this browser only the font is
increasable through the 'text zoom' command.
Why is this? The fonts don't increase on any other browser or platform.

thanks
carleen




From madstone at madstone.net  Thu Nov  9 15:56:26 2000
From: madstone at madstone.net (Jorah Lavin)
Date: Thu Nov  9 15:56:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] Intranet: your 10 critical questions
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109164645.00a00bd0@madstone.net>

Gang

I work as an intranet consultant inside a fairly large corporation (72,000 
employees)  We are going through a cost-cutting period and one of the "belt 
tightening" rules is... no more paper newsletters inside the company.  I'm 
expecting a sharp rise in the number of groups coming to my team for 
intranet sites or help switching from paper to PDF format newsletters.

Tonight I'm writing a one or two page document to use as a "cheat sheet" so 
when I go into meetings with new internal clients to discuss their ideas 
for an intranet site, I don't miss any key ideas.

Just for thoroughness, I'd like your ideas for your "Top (N) Critical 
Questions to Ask New Clients"  {where N is any small number}

1)      Some people will be coming to me who have no site yet.
2)      Some will have a site, but it won't be working right or isn't 
meeting their team's needs.
3)      Some will have a working site, and will be looking for a visual 
"sprucing up."
4)      Some will _think_ they need a site, but will actually need PDFs or 
other electronic outlets (for instance, Lotus Notes, or other email)
5)      Some won't actually need my services, but may in the future.

I've got a bunch of ideas myself, but I suspect I've got blind spots from 
working alone for so long.

Thanks in advance...

=Jorah




-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, move along folks... nothing to see here."
http://www.madstone.net/




From Robert.Brown at lot21.com  Thu Nov  9 16:00:12 2000
From: Robert.Brown at lot21.com (Brown, Robert)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:00:12 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
Message-ID: <D9B7E3D37B61D4119B8600D0B784A9A0871B7C@YODA>

because its set to an absolute size, only fonts set in percentages can be
modified through the browser on pre 5.0

-----Original Message-----
From: Carleen Tracy [mailto:carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:14 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0


Hello All,
having a problem with font size on a MAC IE 5.0 browser. In the style sheet
the font is set to a fixed size (9pt) but on this browser only the font is
increasable through the 'text zoom' command.
Why is this? The fonts don't increase on any other browser or platform.

thanks
carleen


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Thu Nov  9 16:09:28 2000
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:09:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF FTP displaying entire path
Message-ID: <3A0B20FC.3AE8F407@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

I was looking through the advanced CF book by Ben Forta for CF FTP
examples and noticed that when he did this (p. 500):

<cfftp action="open" ...>

<cfftp connection="allaire" ...>

<cfoutput>
     FTP Directory Listing of #cfftp.returnvalue#.<p>
</cfoutput>

the results he got were:

FTP Directory Listing of /.

When I try that, my #cfftp.returnvalue# is /c:/some/path/

Has anyone been able to successfully write an FTP application with
cfftp? I'd like a little help if possible. The FTP server is Serv-U, if
that matters.

</ml>



From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Thu Nov  9 16:10:45 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:10:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] Intranet: your 10 critical questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001109164645.00a00bd0@madstone.net>
Message-ID: <004001c04a9c$aff4bf20$a401410a@tracyc>

Jorah,
no doubt my #1 question is 'What is your objective'. If my clients cannot
tell me resoundly what it is they need to accomplish, there's almost no way
for me to develop a successful product for them. I make sure they are able
to answer without hesitation and if they can's I have them go away until
they can.

>From that objective statement I/we formulate goals which help us measure the
succes of the project. This is handy becasue it easily can become the bible
when scope-creep begins to happen (ugh!).

The absolute #2 question is 'Who is the target audience'. Not knowing your
role on the projects, this may be for a project manager, but a helpful
exercise is to develop personas of who you're targeting. We interview the
users (who have problems-but definetly not solutions, that's our job). One
primary persona which requires every one of their needs be met and 2-3 cast
of characters. When the people on your team start asking questions
like...'what if someone wants to [insert task]. You and your project
managers/engineers/designers can say, without hesitation, Tom [the primary
persona] doesn't need to do that so it's not in this version.

Hope that helps some
Carleen



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jorah Lavin
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:55 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Intranet: your 10 critical questions
>
>
> Gang
>
> I work as an intranet consultant inside a fairly large
> corporation (72,000
> employees)  We are going through a cost-cutting period and one of
> the "belt
> tightening" rules is... no more paper newsletters inside the
> company.  I'm
> expecting a sharp rise in the number of groups coming to my team for
> intranet sites or help switching from paper to PDF format newsletters.
>
> Tonight I'm writing a one or two page document to use as a "cheat
> sheet" so
> when I go into meetings with new internal clients to discuss their ideas
> for an intranet site, I don't miss any key ideas.
>
> Just for thoroughness, I'd like your ideas for your "Top (N) Critical
> Questions to Ask New Clients"  {where N is any small number}
>
> 1)      Some people will be coming to me who have no site yet.
> 2)      Some will have a site, but it won't be working right or isn't
> meeting their team's needs.
> 3)      Some will have a working site, and will be looking for a visual
> "sprucing up."
> 4)      Some will _think_ they need a site, but will actually
> need PDFs or
> other electronic outlets (for instance, Lotus Notes, or other email)
> 5)      Some won't actually need my services, but may in the future.
>
> I've got a bunch of ideas myself, but I suspect I've got blind spots from
> working alone for so long.
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> =Jorah
>
>
>
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> "Okay, move along folks... nothing to see here."
> http://www.madstone.net/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Thu Nov  9 16:12:32 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:12:32 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <D9B7E3D37B61D4119B8600D0B784A9A0871B7C@YODA>
Message-ID: <004101c04a9c$effe06d0$a401410a@tracyc>

Thanks Robert,
I forgot to mention that I don't want this font resizing. My problem is that
it is. Aren't fixed sizes suposed to not resize? It works (not resizing) in
every browser from 4.0 up except MAC IE 5.0. what gives?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Brown, Robert
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:55 PM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
>
>
> because its set to an absolute size, only fonts set in percentages can be
> modified through the browser on pre 5.0
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carleen Tracy [mailto:carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:14 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
>
>
> Hello All,
> having a problem with font size on a MAC IE 5.0 browser. In the
> style sheet
> the font is set to a fixed size (9pt) but on this browser only the font is
> increasable through the 'text zoom' command.
> Why is this? The fonts don't increase on any other browser or platform.
>
> thanks
> carleen
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 16:37:24 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:37:24 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <004101c04a9c$effe06d0$a401410a@tracyc>
Message-ID: <B6309167.A845%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/9/00 5:32 PM, Carleen Tracy at carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com wrote:

> Thanks Robert,
> I forgot to mention that I don't want this font resizing. My problem is that
> it is. Aren't fixed sizes suposed to not resize? It works (not resizing) in
> every browser from 4.0 up except MAC IE 5.0. what gives?

Font display on different browsers can be a problem - because they are all
so different.  In addition to the font-resizing issue that you point out,
you have to remember that Mac IE 5 users also get to specify the resolution
they want things to display in (you choose either Mac standard 72dpi or
leave it at the windows standard 96dpi or change it to something random if
you really want to).

The point is that there's no way to make sure that your carefully chosen
font sizes are going to look the same on my screen as on yours.  I can make
choices that will destroy your layout.  I can link in stupid style sheets, I
can over-ride your decisions, I can make your really pretty page as ugly as
I want to (on my machine, that is...).

What is there to do about it?  Not a lot.

http://www.alistapart.org/stories/fear4/index.html

For some reason, their server is currently requesting passwords, but when
they get that resolved I suggest you read this article. It's really good.

You might also look up the ALA article entitled :"The Tao of Web Design"
(can't get at the site right now, as I mentioned above, or I'd send you a
link to it).  

In short, there are a lot of good arguments for letting your users decide
what font size they want to view your site at.  I, for one, use the font
resizing ability of IE 5 all the time (too many developers on Windows choose
fonts that are useless on a Macintosh).  Flexibility is a good thing.

bob

-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Thu Nov  9 16:50:25 2000
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Thu Nov  9 16:50:25 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
Message-ID: <3A0B2A9D.6C90E015@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

If a directory doesn't contain an index.html file, the browser will
automatically display the contents of that directory when the url is
just plain http://blah/path/

How do I disable this option so that the contents of the directory are
not revealed?

Thanks a bunch!

</ml>



From meyer at up.edu  Thu Nov  9 17:00:57 2000
From: meyer at up.edu (Erika Meyer)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:00:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <B6309167.A845%bobd@members.evolt.org>
References: <B6309167.A845%bobd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <a05001907b630dcdf90d0@[192.220.215.231]>

>What is there to do about it?  Not a lot.
>
>http://www.alistapart.org/stories/fear4/index.html
>
>For some reason, their server is currently requesting passwords, but when
>they get that resolved I suggest you read this article. It's really good.

.com

http://www.alistapart.com/

/etc..

Erika



From carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com  Thu Nov  9 17:05:04 2000
From: carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com (Carleen Tracy)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:05:04 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <a05001907b630dcdf90d0@[192.220.215.231]>
Message-ID: <000001c04aa4$488b13e0$a401410a@tracyc>

thanks erika for the links but can't get in...password problems still.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erika Meyer
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 6:01 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
>
>
> >What is there to do about it?  Not a lot.
> >
> >http://www.alistapart.org/stories/fear4/index.html
> >
> >For some reason, their server is currently requesting passwords, but when
> >they get that resolved I suggest you read this article. It's really good.
>
> .com
>
> http://www.alistapart.com/
>
> /etc..
>
> Erika
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu Nov  9 17:11:09 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:11:09 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
In-Reply-To: <a05001907b630dcdf90d0@[192.220.215.231]>
Message-ID: <B630994E.A84D%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/9/00 6:00 PM, Erika Meyer at meyer at up.edu wrote:

>> http://www.alistapart.org/stories/fear4/index.html
>> 
>> For some reason, their server is currently requesting passwords, but when
>> they get that resolved I suggest you read this article. It's really good.
> 
> .com
> 
> http://www.alistapart.com/
> 
> /etc..
> 
> Erika

They both resolve to the same IP (209.115.232.136).  Both give the same
thing. 

I was at the URI I cited above just two days ago.

I found the other article I was looking for too :

http://www.alistapart.com/stories/dao/

bob


-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From tbounds at gci.net  Thu Nov  9 17:45:57 2000
From: tbounds at gci.net (Tony Bounds)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:45:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
In-Reply-To: <3A0B2A9D.6C90E015@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <B63068F6.1743D%tbounds@gci.net>

on 11/9/00 1:52 PM, Minh Lee Goon at v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu wrote:

> If a directory doesn't contain an index.html file, the browser will
> automatically display the contents of that directory when the url is
> just plain http://blah/path/
> 
> How do I disable this option so that the contents of the directory are
> not revealed?

Put in a dummy index.html file with a redirect to the real index.html file
if you want.
--
Tony




From tbounds at gci.net  Thu Nov  9 17:46:58 2000
From: tbounds at gci.net (Tony Bounds)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:46:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
In-Reply-To: <013901c04a94$bba71b40$ac32a8c0@issntdev57>
Message-ID: <B6306943.1743E%tbounds@gci.net>

on 11/9/00 12:33 PM, Seb at seb at admin.evolt.org wrote:

> What's good about this is that it would make it a crime to send Spam to an
> EU citizen, regardless of the source.

That may be but how in the hell are they going to enforce their laws on
countries that aren't a part of the EU?
--
Tony




From keni at barwick.net  Thu Nov  9 17:48:28 2000
From: keni at barwick.net (Keni Barwick)
Date: Thu Nov  9 17:48:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Scheme
References: <000001c04aa4$488b13e0$a401410a@tracyc>
Message-ID: <005801c04aa7$991bbe60$192430d5@rosiemead>

Sorry if this is of topic, but I was talking to someone the other day about
Web languages/technologys, and they started talking about Scheme, what the
hell is that!!!

Does anyone here know, something to do with Lisp??? (Still another term I am
not sure about!!)

God, I feel a real novice now.

Keni




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov  9 18:23:42 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov  9 18:23:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
References: <3A0B2A9D.6C90E015@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <3A0B3C90.38C4B52A@Baratta.com>

Minh Lee Goon wrote:
> 
> If a directory doesn't contain an index.html file, the browser will
> automatically display the contents of that directory when the url is
> just plain http://blah/path/
> 
> How do I disable this option so that the contents of the directory are
> not revealed?

Create a .htacess file in the directory in question (or in your web root directory).
Put the statement below in the .htaccess file:

Options -Indexes

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From tbounds at gci.net  Thu Nov  9 18:35:34 2000
From: tbounds at gci.net (Tony Bounds)
Date: Thu Nov  9 18:35:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
In-Reply-To: <3A0B3C90.38C4B52A@Baratta.com>
Message-ID: <B63074D9.17469%tbounds@gci.net>

on 11/9/00 3:08 PM, Anthony Baratta at Anthony at Baratta.com wrote:

> Create a .htacess file in the directory in question (or in your web root
> directory).
> Put the statement below in the .htaccess file:
> 
> Options -Indexes

Hey, I didn't know that. Thats kool! Would a plain text file named
index.htacess work?
--
Tony




From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com  Thu Nov  9 18:55:45 2000
From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft)
Date: Thu Nov  9 18:55:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] Scheme
References: <000001c04aa4$488b13e0$a401410a@tracyc> <005801c04aa7$991bbe60$192430d5@rosiemead>
Message-ID: <005101c04ab1$6454cdc0$38d659d8@KENNY>

> Sorry if this is of topic, but I was talking to someone the other day
about
> Web languages/technologys, and they started talking about Scheme, what the
> hell is that!!!

Scheme is just another old programming language.  I had a class a couple of
years ago where we had to do projects in different languages and Scheme was
one of them.  My advice to you is to forget you ever heard of it.  Its a
nightmare to code in, unless modern programing languages bore you.

> Does anyone here know, something to do with Lisp??? (Still another term I
am
> not sure about!!)

I think Scheme is a variant of Lisp or the other way around.  Either way,
its a bigger pain than Scheme.  You will go into convulsions due to the
shere number of parenths() required to code in that
language......(if(this)then(this var (foo (bar)))) ick!!!

jeremy

<tip type="hubris">
hubris = excessive pride

something every developer should have in their work.  if you can't take
pride in your code, then why bother?
</tip>




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu Nov  9 19:40:23 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu Nov  9 19:40:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
References: <B63074D9.17469%tbounds@gci.net>
Message-ID: <3A0B4EEF.8F8F2818@Baratta.com>

Tony Bounds wrote:
> 
> on 11/9/00 3:08 PM, Anthony Baratta at Anthony at Baratta.com wrote:
> 
> > Create a .htacess file in the directory in question (or in your web root
> > directory).
> > Put the statement below in the .htaccess file:
> >
> > Options -Indexes

First - I made a typo. The file should be called .htaccess (with 2 c's)

Second - You configure Apache on a site/directory basis by using the .htaccess file.
Making the file name index.htaccess will give you any advantage - it just won't work.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From cvos at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  9 22:04:34 2000
From: cvos at yahoo.com (cayley vos)
Date: Thu Nov  9 22:04:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] emailing text in the BODY of a message
Message-ID: <20001110040450.13791.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com>

Greetings!  I have a link that I would like to use to
email the text of a press release to a customer, with
the customer merely having to click on the link to
have that document mailed to them.  here is the page
(its in flash)
http://www.monster-media.com/press.html
the button that looks like an envelope is the one we
want to use for this.  I can write in asp and use a
cgi bin.  Im thinking of using formmail to pre-process
the mail.

thanks,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Thu Nov  9 22:18:17 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Thu Nov  9 22:18:17 2000
Subject: [thelist] Ecom.: Order Info: One or Many Pages?
References: <OF42D13F85.E613F402-ON8525698B.00751EBF@1.10.196>
Message-ID: <019001c04acd$393687c0$5d7b5acf@mwardenlaptop>

> [tip author="rudy"]
> Best Practices for Designing Shopping Cart and Checkout Interfaces
> http://www.dack.com/web/shopping_cart.html
> [/tip]


I finally got some time to really read this. Hmmmm... I really don't think I
agree with this:

<quote>
 Mailing Address and Phone Number
 Ship-to Address
 Request Shipping Method
 Request Payment Method

This list is the information required by all e-retailers in order to complete
an online transaction. They are listed together because, in a well-designed
checkout process, they should be asked together. Some e-retailers, such as
eToys, make the mistake of creating individual web pages for many of the
required elements. Grouping these elements together on a single, well-designed
page is the best practice for the following reasons:

     1. Speed   A lone trip to the web server is made when the required
elements are grouped together on a single page. When separated on individual
pages the system requires several roundtrip visits to the server, and these
back-and-forth trips increase transaction time.
     2. User Dropout Avoidance   The more steps involved in a process, the
more likely users are to drop out before successful completion...
     3. Scrolling is OK...
</quote>

Speed? Hmmm... I don't think that's a very good argument. A user is quite
lucky if he/she makes zero input errors on the form. If you have one long form
for order information, that means that, for every input error and user change,
the entire form has to reload, rather than just the form for that bit of
information.

User dropout avoidance? Maybe. I guess it lessens the number of requests on
the server and, because of that, speeds up the response time, but most of that
argument is killed by my above point. Personally, I get more frustrated when I
see a huge form asking for all kinds of information than I do when I go
through a step process. HOWEVER, I almost *always* leave a site before
finishing if the step I'm currently on isn't highlighted in some sort of
process map:

Checkout:     Customer Info   Shipping Info   [Billing Info]   Preview

so that I know how much more I have to go through to get to what I want.


What about y'all? Thoughts?


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Thu Nov  9 22:20:09 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Thu Nov  9 22:20:09 2000
Subject: [thelist] emailing text in the BODY of a message
References: <20001110040450.13791.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <019601c04acd$7f34ed20$5d7b5acf@mwardenlaptop>

> Greetings!  I have a link that I would like to use to
> email the text of a press release to a customer, with
> the customer merely having to click on the link to
> have that document mailed to them.  here is the page
> (its in flash)
> http://www.monster-media.com/press.html
> the button that looks like an envelope is the one we
> want to use for this.  I can write in asp and use a
> cgi bin.  Im thinking of using formmail to pre-process
> the mail.

What's your question? How can you use formmail? How to retrieve the press
release text? Try to get your question cleared up ASAP so there aren't 5
people asking what your question is.

later,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From adrian at logo-logic.com  Thu Nov  9 23:14:49 2000
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Thu Nov  9 23:14:49 2000
Subject: [thelist] mysql to word??
Message-ID: <000901c04ad5$27ccda40$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Hi Gang,

Firstly a big thanks to all who have helped me over the last week (its
Friday already here).  I owe a bazillion tips by now and if I ever feel that
I have something to offer, instead of taking, I will.

I am still working on extracting the mail out of my .mail file and trying to
get my little program to do things dependant on what it finds in there...its
all a matter of time.

However...today I thought it might be handy to be able to extract names and
address out of my mysql db(remotely hosted) and insert them directly into a
mail merge letter on my pc.  Or can I dump the data and structure and insert
it directly into an Access db and then merge from there or can I.......

Thanks again.

Adrian Fischer
Brisbane
Australia


Hey, I just thought of a tip...
<tip>Don't get your ambitions mixed up with your capabilities</tip>






From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 10 00:12:23 2000
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Nov 10 00:12:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] Ecom.: Order Info: One or Many Pages?
In-Reply-To: <019001c04acd$393687c0$5d7b5acf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <3A0B492F.19855.2234450A@localhost>

> From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at odyssey-design.com>
> 
> Speed? Hmmm... I don't think that's a very good argument. A user is quite
> lucky if he/she makes zero input errors on the form. If you have one long form
> for order information, that means that, for every input error and user change,
> the entire form has to reload, rather than just the form for that bit of
> information.

i agree with you completely... user testing on *many* ecommerce 
sites showed me that people always screw stuff up... i also found 
that people don't want to enter all their information, especially CC 
info, on a single-page form without an idea of how it will respond... 
steps before that can establish how errors are handled, and 
capture appropriate information to provide accurate quotes for 
shipping and tax...

as for user dropout, i never saw that as an issue... we didn't have 
people dropping out due to multi-page forms...

[...]
> through a step process. HOWEVER, I almost *always* leave a site before
> finishing if the step I'm currently on isn't highlighted in some sort of
> process map:
> 
> Checkout:     Customer Info   Shipping Info   [Billing Info]   Preview
> 
> so that I know how much more I have to go through to get to what I want.

that's what i do... Shopping cart --> Billing info --> Shipping info --> 
Credit card info --> Verification page --> Receipt, with email receipt 
to follow...

i always try to tell the user where he/she is, at least by step 
number of the total steps... i also explain it all up-front whenever 
possible...

i'm also a stickler for buttons that have iconography to indicate the 
purpose, as well as descriptive text... instead of telling a user there 
are errors, i also like to highlight problem fields... there are many of 
these little things that are often more important than concerns like 
extra trips to the server... and hey, don't forget your HTML4 form 
accessibility features...

you can see a very low-budget one for a not-for-profit site that even 
integrates these features... no order site should be without some of 
these... http://herdaboutbuffalo.com/merchandise/



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 00:14:44 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 00:14:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] mysql to word??
References: <000901c04ad5$27ccda40$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3A0B908C.36D9B9AF@Baratta.com>

Adrian Fischer wrote:
> 
> However...today I thought it might be handy to be able to extract names and
> address out of my mysql db(remotely hosted) and insert them directly into a
> mail merge letter on my pc.  Or can I dump the data and structure and insert
> it directly into an Access db and then merge from there or can I.......
> 

Happy Friday....

Get myODBC and do the mail merge with a direct link to the mySQL Database. (If you
are using MS WOrd or another app that can use ODBC links to a remote database.)

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From lisa at koolfish.com  Fri Nov 10 02:47:51 2000
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew)
Date: Fri Nov 10 02:47:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] table cell alignment problem
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEKECBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Hi, Please can someone take a look and help me to align three images.
I have a table, I have left the border on so it is easier for you to see.
On the right-hand side are 3 buttons. They should all join together but I
can't for the life of me figure out what is wrong. I have cell heights in
the cells and have aligned them top etc, but they won't budge.

Don't waste your time on other comments, the site is not finished or
formatted I am not looking for a site review just help with this alignment
problem.
see the problem page at http://www.koolfish.com/version2/index.html

Thanks all
Lisa.




From comharsa at clara.net  Fri Nov 10 03:00:50 2000
From: comharsa at clara.net (Comharsa)
Date: Fri Nov 10 03:00:50 2000
Subject: [thelist] table cell alignment problem
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEKECBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001110085754.00a28ae0@relay.clara.net>

At 08:54 10/11/00, Lisa Bartholomew found time to write:
>Hi, Please can someone take a look and help me to align three images.
>I have a table, I have left the border on so it is easier for you to see.
>On the right-hand side are 3 buttons. They should all join together but I
>can't for the life of me figure out what is wrong. I have cell heights in
>the cells and have aligned them top etc, but they won't budge.

Regardless of the cell heights you have set, if the the content of the main 
cell is long enough it will stretch those cells apart. One thing you could 
do is rowspan those three cells to a single cell then put the three images 
into a nested table in that cell.

Brian
comharsa at clara.net




From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Nov 10 03:00:59 2000
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua OIson)
Date: Fri Nov 10 03:00:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] table cell alignment problem
References: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEKECBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
Message-ID: <001601c04af5$361e6b20$0300a8c0@alphashop.com>

One thing to keep in mind is that Row Spanning and Column spanning is very
difficult to predict, especially on the left and top.  The results for other
cells, spacing, height, width, etc are predictable, but you usually have to
resort to a less than elogant solution to forcing things the way you want
them--ie, use cell height and width of -1%, etc.  Ug

Your best bet may be to not row span on the main conent area and simply
stack the buttons in the right column in a single cell, placing a <br />
between each image.  For additional security, you should also remove all
whitespace around the images and links, etc.

Hopefully this helps,

-joshua




From madstone at madstone.net  Fri Nov 10 03:04:34 2000
From: madstone at madstone.net (Jorah Lavin)
Date: Fri Nov 10 03:04:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] table cell alignment problem
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEKECBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001110035754.009ed540@madstone.net>

At 03:54 AM 11/10/00, Lisa Bartholomew wrote:
>Hi, Please can someone take a look and help me to align three images.
>
>On the right-hand side are 3 buttons. They should all join together but I
>can't for the life of me figure out what is wrong.

Lisa, I tried putting everything in the right-hand menu into a single cell, 
and it seemed to work.  Didn't do any cross-anything testing, but it looked 
okay on my windows machine on IE.

====================

<div align="center">
         <table width="566" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" 
align="center">
                 <tr>
<td valign="bottom" colspan="2"><img src="images/logo_splash.gif" 
width="289" height="185"></td>
<td width="99">&nbsp;</td>
                 </tr>
                 <tr>
<td valign="bottom" colspan="2"><img src="images/splash_hor_line.gif" 
width="467" height="35"></td>
<td width="99" valign="bottom"><img src="images/splash_hor_small.gif" 
width="99" height="35"></td>
                 </tr>
                 <tr>
<td valign="top" width="443">
<p align="left">Koolfish offers professional web design services for 
businesses,
           individuals and organisations worldwide.</p>
<p align="left">Koolfish specialises in building websites that are 
individually
           tailored to the customer. We do not use pre-prepared templates, all
           designs are original and have a look and feel that can be 
associated
           with the business or individual.</p>
<p align="left">Koolfish can provide you with an internet presence and
           a site with innovative eye-catching designs and custom graphics. 
For
           more information see our services section to see what we can do for
           you.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p></td>
<td valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="99" valign="top"><a href="htmlpages/services_set.html" 
onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" 
onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('servve','','images/splash_serv_over.gif',1)"><img 
src="images/splash_service.gif" width="99" height="39" name="servve" 
border="0" alt="services"></a><br><a href="htmlpages/portfolio_set.html" 
onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" 
onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('porrtte','','images/splash_port_over.gif',1)"><img 
src="images/splash_port.gif" width="99" height="49" name="porrtte" 
border="0" alt="portfolio"></a><br><a href="htmlpages/contact_set.html" 
onMouseOut="MM_swapImgRestore()" 
onMouseOver="MM_swapImage('conntts','','images/splash_con_over.gif',1)"><img 
src="images/splash_contact.gif" width="99" height="83" name="conntts" 
border="0" alt="contact us"></a></td>
                 </tr>
                 <tr>
<td valign="top" colspan="3">
         <div align="center">&copy; Koolfish.com 2000
         </div></td>
                 </tr>
         </table>
</div>

=================

HTH.

-Jorah







From cm at eviews.net  Fri Nov 10 03:30:13 2000
From: cm at eviews.net (Craig McLaughlan)
Date: Fri Nov 10 03:30:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] simple project proposal template
Message-ID: <006a01c04af8$cfe96c20$3d3560d5@www.teleline.es>

I'm trying to sell a project and have been asked to *put things in writing
*.
Essentially I'll be a temporary Project Manager. How temporary will depend
pretty much on their deliverables. At this stage they have something very
simple in mind but I can see this becoming a bigger project. I don't want to
scare them off by saying this will take between 3 and 12 months, and I don't
want to mislead them either. I'd really like to explain that I'll be working
full-time on their project so delays will be mostly influenced by their
input.

Does anyone have a really (and I mean really) simple example of a 1 or 2
page proposal that I can use?
Thanks




From cvos at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 03:38:14 2000
From: cvos at yahoo.com (cayley vos)
Date: Fri Nov 10 03:38:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] email an article:  was sending text in the body of an email
Message-ID: <20001110093835.807.qmail@web614.mail.yahoo.com>

In case this was confusing, my dilemma is simple:  I
need to be able to send a text article via email to a
person just by clicking on a link.
to pass info into the subject of an email, one creates
the link  mailto:me at myaddress.com?subject=blahbhah

can this be used for the body of the email as well?

thanks,

Cayley Vos, 

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From rob at bigbang.net.au  Fri Nov 10 04:02:22 2000
From: rob at bigbang.net.au (Rob Keniger)
Date: Fri Nov 10 04:02:22 2000
Subject: [thelist] email an article:  was sending text in the body of
	an email
In-Reply-To: <20001110093835.807.qmail@web614.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B63204DC.F016%rob@bigbang.net.au>

on 11/10/00 7:38 PM, cayley vos at cvos at yahoo.com wrote:

> In case this was confusing, my dilemma is simple:  I
> need to be able to send a text article via email to a
> person just by clicking on a link.
> to pass info into the subject of an email, one creates
> the link  mailto:me at myaddress.com?subject=blahbhah
> 
> can this be used for the body of the email as well?

Sure, but it depends on the email client. Outlook Express accepts at least:

mailto:me at myaddress.com?subject=blahbhah&message=Hi%20There!%blah%20blah

and

mailto:me at myaddress.com?subject=blahbhah&body=Hi%20There!%blah%20blah

Note that you must URL encode the spaces, symbols etc.

-- 

Rob Keniger

big bang solutions

<mailto:rob at bigbang.net.au>
<http://www.bigbang.net.au>




From stef at nota-bene.org  Fri Nov 10 04:05:12 2000
From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f)
Date: Fri Nov 10 04:05:12 2000
Subject: [thelist] Select problem on Mac in NN
In-Reply-To: <3a0af14d$1@fuseware.com>
References: <3a0ac316$1@fuseware.com>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20001109105250.02356190@pop.oven.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001110105224.009cc530@mail.nota-bene.org>

[sender: Joel Firestone || date: 13:50 09/11/2000 -0500]
>Seb:
>
>Thanks. That was the first thing I tried. But thanks for the suggestion. : )

Hey Joel,
Here I got this flash of understanding:
Put your select inside form tags.
I had the problem once.
HTH


s t e f




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 04:45:01 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 04:45:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] Is this spam or not?
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS>
 <003201c04a57$f4cd9da0$ecc82cc3@athlon800>
Message-ID: <3A0AD5EB.C7E41EF@Baratta.com>

George Dillon wrote:
> 
> I received some Spam today which I consider Spam, but which bore the
> following footnote:
> 
> "Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by 105th U. S. Congress this mail can
> not be considered Spam as long as we include contact information
> and a remove link for removal from our mailing list. To be removed from our
> mailing list reply with remove in the subject heading. "

US Civics 101:

You can not be in compliance with a Bill. Bills are not laws, they are proposed laws,
and if they are not signed by the end of the legislature session they expire and need
to be re-introduced. This bill died in committee many years ago and is currently used
as cover for this type of crap.

I fact I think only the House of Representatives passed this Bill or it may only have
been introduced. Therefore it could have not been passed by any Congress because both
houses did not approve it. 

Did I say this was a load of crap??
-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From david.braun at centralnet.ch  Fri Nov 10 06:06:25 2000
From: david.braun at centralnet.ch (david braun)
Date: Fri Nov 10 06:06:25 2000
Subject: [thelist] Penalties
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001109084025.00e3abb0@mail.bayou.com>
Message-ID: <20001110130648-r01010600-db6d5ca3@193.246.199.133>

at our place, we use to tell the customers that deadlines are binded to
on-time content-delivery (if applicable). same goes for penalties.
(if we don't get the stuff in time, forget the deadlines...)

if such a situation occurs, it is possible that we then halt the project
and continue on other stuff, realigning the halted one in the
project-queue... wich, of course, the customer doesn't like, but, hell,
it's them who didn't respect the deadline-deal

david

Jamie Madden <jamie at bayou.com> schrieb am 9.11.2000:

> Is it common practice among developers to charge a client a penalty for the 
> late delivery of content if the date for that content delivery was 
> specifically stated in the contract?  I'm having an incredibly hard time 
> getting some clients to deliver content in a timely manner and it's costing 
> me money in the long run by halting productivity.



From carole at soulmedia.com  Fri Nov 10 06:33:05 2000
From: carole at soulmedia.com (Carole Guevin)
Date: Fri Nov 10 06:33:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] Starting a Webusiness
In-Reply-To: <71CDFFA73DA9D311AE2B0050DA7142D624B844@ATHM-209-219-xxx-25.home.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBLNBHILBEIODPIGDMEEJDDJAA.carole@soulmedia.com>

Hi Billy,

> When I opened an office, I never saw a penny of the money we made.

Can you explain when you changed your model from home-base or teleworking to
office - that it wasn't functioning anymore?

carole guevin
  imagineering studio.................+
http://soulmedia.com
  new media resources........+
http://netdiver.net




From adrian at logo-logic.com  Fri Nov 10 06:50:10 2000
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Fri Nov 10 06:50:10 2000
Subject: [thelist] pattern matching mail in perl
Message-ID: <018c01c04b14$c457ee60$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Well I guess you ve caught on by now....I haven't a clue what I'm doing
here!

At last I can get access to the .mail file on the linux server that hosts
me.  If its sin a useable format is yet to be seen.  At present I can dump
the whole thing to screen, but that's not what I want, it just proves to me
that I've accessed it.
This is how I'm doing it:
<snip>
death('didn't work') unless (open(MAILFILE, "$config{'pathtomail'}.mail"));
 (@junk) = <MAILFILE>;
close MAILFILE;
  print "@junk
</snip>

the print just dumps the whole file (possibly many emails) to the screen, no
formatting.  It doesn't need to be formatted.  I don't want it displayed on
the screen.  I want to be able to search the file and find occurrences of
certain key words and then see whets on the right of them.  For instance.
Find occurrences of the word "Invoice Number:" and return the number to the
right of it. There may be many instances of the word "Invoice Number:" and I
need to have them all returned.

I think part of my problem is that the file is not delimited by anything.  I
know if I do this:
<snip>
death('it don't work') unless (open(MAILFILE,
"$config{'pathtomail'}.mail"));
 ($crap,$snap,$pop,$q1,$q2,$q3,$q4......etc) = <MAILFILE>;
close MAILFILE;
  foreach ($crap)
 {
print "$crap...$snap...$pop...$q1...$q2...$q3...$q4....................etc";
 }
</snip>
it seems to print a line at a time so perhaps there is a line feed at the
end of each row (obviously) and each variable is grabbing a line.  That's a
step in the right direction.  But I don't know how many emails may be in the
file at a given time so that doesn't really help.

Even a line at a time ( If I could somehow do a while loop and grab and test
each line as it reads the file might work) might be to much.  Perhaps if I
could grab each individual word and test it against my search word.

And there in lays the problem.  I know what I need to be doing but don't
know how to do it.  My reference talks about pattern matching but does not
give an example that I can play with.  I've searched online resources for
examples but found nothing.

Once I've grabbed the variables I need from the mail the rest is
easy...update my db and away we go.  But it could all be for naught if I
cant get this sucker to work.

Any online resources you know of that are in big black bold print (with
pictures would help).  Examples are what I really need.  I've managed to get
this far by playing with examples and chopping and changing them.

Could be a big ask on a Friday (its actually 1045 pm Friday night as I write
this but I'm hoping someone on the other side of the world has nothing
better to do on their Friday.;-))

Sorry to hassle you all so many times in one day...


Regards

(a very battle weary)
Adrian Fischer
Brisbane
Australia




From morbus at disobey.com  Fri Nov 10 07:06:36 2000
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Fri Nov 10 07:06:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] pattern matching mail in perl
In-Reply-To: <018c01c04b14$c457ee60$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
References: <018c01c04b14$c457ee60$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <p05010403b631a1ce94c5@[216.64.14.202]>

>Even a line at a time ( If I could somehow do a while loop and grab and test
>each line as it reads the file might work) might be to much.  Perhaps if I
>could grab each individual word and test it against my search word.
>
>And there in lays the problem.  I know what I need to be doing but don't
>know how to do it.  My reference talks about pattern matching but does not
>give an example that I can play with.  I've searched online resources for
>examples but found nothing.

open (MAIL, "$file"); $file = <MAIL>; close (MAIL);

foreach (split(/\n/, $file)) {
   if ($_ =~ /searchterm/) { print "Found it: $_"; }
}

This is a really simple one. The first line obviously sucks in your file,
and we place it into a big $variable instead of an array. We then loop
through that variable in our second line, splitting on a new line character.

So, the loop will go through every single line in the file, and do anything
in the loop on that one line. We use perl's $_, which contains the latest
of what we're working on (in this case, the single line we just yanked out
from our $file).

We then do a test to see if that line matches our "searchterm". If it does,
we print that line out, and move on with our loop. The pattern match can be
anything obviously, some examples being:

   /Invoice Number:/
   /Subject: /
   /From: bob\@microsoft.com/             # we must escape "@" here

And so on. Hope that helps.

-- 
Morbus Iff
   ______       Here we have HomelessMorbus - living in a box. Able to
   | () |       furnish an old refrigerator box into a spacious 3 room
   |<\/>|      complete with Internet connection and entertainment center,
   |_/\_|       until it rains, and then he's up to his knees in shat...
                   Devil Shat: <http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/>

-01--- <\/> ---- <http://www.disobey.com/> --- Bad Ascii, Short Notice ----




From persist1_pdx at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 08:18:19 2000
From: persist1_pdx at yahoo.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Fri Nov 10 08:18:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
Message-ID: <20001110141837.9465.qmail@web3903.mail.yahoo.com>

> [sender: Ben Henick || date: 04:51 09/11/2000 -0800]
> >Let me paint for you a scenario:

I will attempt to preserve the signal:noise ratio by summing up the
advice in the thread as a tip, where it will probably do the most good.

I am... surprised and touched at the sincerity of the responses I've
gotten both on- and offlist.  I know that several of you recognize my
address from earlier flurries of productive activity on MJ, and only
wish that I was making as significant a contribution here!  *chuckle*

For those of you who might have wondered the event at hand is
(thankfully) not a death of any sort.  Then too the client whose
timeline is most affected by the situation has been notified, and has
been entirely understanding.  After talking to him I realize that part
of my stress has to do with the fact that I want to see it finished (if
anything) more badly than he does!

The matter at hand I shall call one of personal revelation; the subject
matter is such that I really don't want to discuss it publicly.  My
(increasingly outdated) personal site touches on parts.

I think I'm starting to get my bearings back, and the response to this
thread has had a lot to do with that.

Another thing I should mention is that my MP3 collection has been
something of a godsend, even if I haven't gotten much work done.  I've
instead tried to do intuitive stuff like phone calls and copywriting.

One (rhetorical) question I have:  I'm working out of the house
presently, which has made it more difficult... when you're freelancing,
what then?

<tip type="Managing personal difficulty">
Every once in a while life catches up with us at times that do no
favors for our deadlines.  Here is a list of "Do's:"
1.  Talk to someone.  Finding an objective voice will help to put
matters in perspective.
2.  Compartmentalize.  If that means that you're a workaholic, then
maybe you should take some time off at home.  If you can, keep work at
work and home at home.
3.  Rest.  If you push yourself that much harder, you are in fact 
bringing upon yourself a cycle of illness that only makes matters
worse.
4.  Make a conscious effort to make your Web usage productive.  Time
will fly, will get pissed away, if you don't.
5.  Did I mention talking?
6.  Focus on resolving some of your more intense project challenges. 
this can help to provide needed distance from you and whatever the
problem happens to be.  Do be careful to manage your time if you do
this.
7.  Change your routine enough to provide some needed variety.  At the
very least, interact.
There are also a couple of "Don't's:"
1.  Do not medicate with drugs or alcohol as a direct response to the
situation.
2.  If you're hurting in some way don't, please DON'T, "bottle it in." 
This can be difficult in circumstances where you've not much of a
social life (and thus no friends with whom you'd trust the relevant
emotion)... and in that event, visit the pastor (or other spiritual
mentor) of a friend.  If it's too intense to bear, that's probably for
a reason, and you're being foolish to try and bear it alone anyway.
</tip>

=====
Ben Henick              |  "In the long run, men hit only
Web Author At-Large     |  what they aim at.  Therefore,
www.io.com/persist1/    |  though they should fail
persist1 at io.com         |  immediately, they had better aim
persist1_pdx at yahoo.com  |  high."  --Henry David Thoreau

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Fri Nov 10 08:31:42 2000
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Fri Nov 10 08:31:42 2000
Subject: [thelist] When life and coding are incompatible...?
References: <20001109125142.16637.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com> <3A0AD5E0.819AB492@acu.ac.uk> <3A0AE395.68062F60@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <3A0C06EC.6AB49D5F@acu.ac.uk>

Sam-I-Am wrote:

> great post.
Thanks :-)

> Katherine - could you wrap your post in a tip tag for the harvester?
Will do!

I thought of one other thing (and in the spirit of tipping!):

<tip type="Staying Focused">
Break down long/ongoing tasks into bite sized chunks, and make a to do
list.  This will not only keep you focused, but the sense of
satisfaction gained from ticking off a task is far better for your
morale than those "did i achieve anything at all today?" days.
</tip>


Repeated 4 tip purposes:

<tip type="Taking Care of Yourself">
Get plenty of rest - even if you're not sleeping too good, take time to
veg in front of the telly, read a book, meditate, have a long bath.  if
you must stay up late working, get one early night for every late one
(and sleeping all weekend doesn't count - studies show this can leave
you feeling worse - like a kinda jetlag). a milky drink b4 bed can make
you drowsy - a natural alternative to sleeping pills

Cut down on caffeine (coffee, tea, coke + chocolate) - i know it's no
fun, but it will help you sleep better and not weaken your immune
system.

Eat properly. Try to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner (not at your
desk!), at regular times - and don't eat for at least an hour before
bed. if you're not getting enough vitamins and minerals (fruit +
veggies) take a supplement - it's not as good, but better than nothing. 
Eat high energy foods like pasta, bread, bananas and avoid too much
processed sugar.

A regular form of moderate exercise 30-60 minutes a day is good for
keeping your body in good condition (and better able to fight off
germs). yoga is great for relaxing or walk to the shops in your lunch
hour (be sure to take some time away from your desk each day).
</tip>



From mark at wechsler.com  Fri Nov 10 08:55:31 2000
From: mark at wechsler.com (Mark Green)
Date: Fri Nov 10 08:55:31 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
Message-ID: <B63176AC.14CC%mark@wechsler.com>

If you set the font size to pixels rather than points (Xpx vs Xpt), it
should prevent it from resizing in Mac IE 5.0. Not that I think you should
do that very often...

-- 
Mark Green
Wechsler Ross & Partners

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carleen Tracy [mailto:carleen.tracy at b3interactive.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:14 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
>
>
> Hello All,
> having a problem with font size on a MAC IE 5.0 browser. In the
> style sheet
> the font is set to a fixed size (9pt) but on this browser only the font is
> increasable through the 'text zoom' command.
> Why is this? The fonts don't increase on any other browser or platform.
>
> thanks
> carleen
>




From joris at mac.com  Fri Nov 10 09:02:16 2000
From: joris at mac.com (Joris Kluivers)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:02:16 2000
Subject: [thelist] jsp
References: <018c01c04b14$c457ee60$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> <p05010403b631a1ce94c5@[216.64.14.202]>
Message-ID: <002001c04b26$cf803420$0701a8c0@WORKGROUP>

hi,

i've seen a couple of sites using the extension jsp (java server pages)
does someone know where to learn this stuff

Joris




From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Fri Nov 10 09:21:28 2000
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:21:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
Message-ID: <NEBBIMBEPMEGCEIMGFLDGEJOCAAA.bheerssen@visualbridge.tv>

Anthony, are you sure about this? It didn't work for me. What did work was
modifying the <directory...> entry in the httpd.config file to read:

Options -Indexes ...(blah, blah)

However, that disables indexing on all directories.

I'm using WinNT with Apache running as a service. Would that be a factor? Of
course, I did remember to stop and restart the sevice before expecting the
change to take effect.


"Anthony Baratta" <Anthony at Baratta.com> wrote in message
news:<3A0B4EEF.8F8F2818 at Baratta.com>...
> Tony Bounds wrote:
> >
> > on 11/9/00 3:08 PM, Anthony Baratta at Anthony at Baratta.com wrote:
> >
> > > Create a .htacess file in the directory in question (or in your web root
> > > directory).
> > > Put the statement below in the .htaccess file:
> > >
> > > Options -Indexes
>




From bobd at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 10 09:26:26 2000
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:26:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] jsp
In-Reply-To: <002001c04b26$cf803420$0701a8c0@WORKGROUP>
Message-ID: <B6317DE2.A8A0%bobd@members.evolt.org>

on 11/10/00 9:59 AM, Joris Kluivers at joris at mac.com wrote:

> hi,
> 
> i've seen a couple of sites using the extension jsp (java server pages)
> does someone know where to learn this stuff
> 
> Joris

I've been looking into the same thing, and here's what I have found:

http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/

http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/docs.html

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/

http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/tags/tags.html


http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/

http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html

There are more, but that's what I have in my bookmarks.

bob

-- 

bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org




From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Fri Nov 10 09:28:53 2000
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:28:53 2000
Subject: [thelist] Request For Comments (+ tips)
Message-ID: <3A0C1454.31BD7E63@acu.ac.uk>

Here's the deal:

Internal departmental changes mean that soon our site will be out of
date, and I'm hoping to take this opportunity to do a (IMO much needed)
redesign.  However I have to go to a "Strategic Management Meeting"
(read 4 technology dinosaurs, 1 Finance Director who complains at
_anything_ involving money, and my boss (IT director) on monday and
convince them that the site needs changing. The reason this may pose
problems is because the site is comparatively new (18 months or so) and
was designed by a contractor (at considerable expense!) before I was
hired.  The other reason is that they (with the exception on my boss)
think it looks great!  It suffered greatly from internal politics when
it was designed and they can't see how that's made it really difficult
to use if you don't know our corporate structure.

The URL is http://www.acu.ac.uk/

What I'd really like is comments on it's usability that I can take as
ammunition, or just bear in mind when I do the redesign.  If you're
glutton for punishment you could try looking for a) the application form
for the British Marshall Scholarships and b) the application form for
British Academy/ACU Grants for International Collaboration and tell me
how far you get.

I already intend to get rid of the frames but I'm not sure about CSS
'cause a lot of our audience use v3 Netscape/IE (around 50%).

The other part is:

I'm considering proposing an interactive news/comments area as the home
page (like /. for academics) but I know that senior staff here currently
wouldn't use that kind of site.  Does anyone else work (or used to work)
in an academic environment? If so, are my lot typical of the average
academic, or do your think this might just fly? I would be proposing a
news area we update daily with the option to comment or submit your own
story.

Sorry for the long post - I know it's a bit much for a friday!
TIA,
Katherine

Tips:

<tip type="Perl Resources">
The best Perl book you will ever buy has to be "Perl Cookbook" -
O'Reilly ISBN 1-56592-243-3.  It has a recipe for every situation, and
great explanations.
</tip>

<tip type="Apache Resources">
The Apache Server Adminstrators Handbook by M. J. Kabir ISBN
0-7645-3306-1 is the best apache book I've ever used.  It walks you
though the httpd.conf, covers common tasks and more indepth stuff, but
is organized so you can find the bit you need without needing to read 5
other chapters first.
</tip>



From licren at unx.sas.com  Fri Nov 10 09:36:28 2000
From: licren at unx.sas.com (Lisa Crenshaw)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:36:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] pattern matching mail in perl
In-Reply-To: <018c01c04b14$c457ee60$d6b32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.1001110101634.3218A-100000@login021.unx.sas.com>

This from a perl tutorial seems like a pretty good basic introduction
to perl's pattern matching : 
   http://cres20.anu.edu.au/manuals/perl/matching.html

and here are the gory details on regular expressions from www.perl.com:
   http://www.perl.com/pub/doc/manual/html/pod/perlre.html

Use parentheses to remember parts of a line you've just matched. For
example, assuming that $_ contains one line of your mail file :

$_ =~ /Invoice Number: (.+)/ ;
my $anything_after_invoice = $1;

$anything_after_invoice will now be all characters (except newlines) 
after the Invoice Number. Similarly:

$_ =~ /Invoice Number: (\d+)/ ;
my $digits = $1;	### contains any digits immediately following 

  or 

$_ =~ /Invoice Number: ([\s\d]+)/ ;
my $digits_and_whitespace  = $1;  ### contains digits and whitespace
				  ### immediately following 

Good luck. 

--lisa

Lisa Crenshaw
Webmaster/ Sysadmin
SAS Institute
lisa.crenshaw at sas.com

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Adrian Fischer wrote:

> Well I guess you ve caught on by now....I haven't a clue what I'm doing
> here!
> 
> At last I can get access to the .mail file on the linux server that hosts
> me.  If its sin a useable format is yet to be seen.  At present I can dump
> the whole thing to screen, but that's not what I want, it just proves to me
> that I've accessed it.
> This is how I'm doing it:
> <snip>
> death('didn't work') unless (open(MAILFILE, "$config{'pathtomail'}.mail"));
>  (@junk) = <MAILFILE>;
> close MAILFILE;
>   print "@junk
> </snip>
> 
> the print just dumps the whole file (possibly many emails) to the screen, no
> formatting.  It doesn't need to be formatted.  I don't want it displayed on
> the screen.  I want to be able to search the file and find occurrences of
> certain key words and then see whets on the right of them.  For instance.
> Find occurrences of the word "Invoice Number:" and return the number to the
> right of it. There may be many instances of the word "Invoice Number:" and I
> need to have them all returned.
> 
> I think part of my problem is that the file is not delimited by anything.  I
> know if I do this:
> <snip>
> death('it don't work') unless (open(MAILFILE,
> "$config{'pathtomail'}.mail"));
>  ($crap,$snap,$pop,$q1,$q2,$q3,$q4......etc) = <MAILFILE>;
> close MAILFILE;
>   foreach ($crap)
>  {
> print "$crap...$snap...$pop...$q1...$q2...$q3...$q4....................etc";
>  }
> </snip>
> it seems to print a line at a time so perhaps there is a line feed at the
> end of each row (obviously) and each variable is grabbing a line.  That's a
> step in the right direction.  But I don't know how many emails may be in the
> file at a given time so that doesn't really help.
> 
> Even a line at a time ( If I could somehow do a while loop and grab and test
> each line as it reads the file might work) might be to much.  Perhaps if I
> could grab each individual word and test it against my search word.
> 
> And there in lays the problem.  I know what I need to be doing but don't
> know how to do it.  My reference talks about pattern matching but does not
> give an example that I can play with.  I've searched online resources for
> examples but found nothing.
> 
> Once I've grabbed the variables I need from the mail the rest is
> easy...update my db and away we go.  But it could all be for naught if I
> cant get this sucker to work.
> 
> Any online resources you know of that are in big black bold print (with
> pictures would help).  Examples are what I really need.  I've managed to get
> this far by playing with examples and chopping and changing them.
> 
> Could be a big ask on a Friday (its actually 1045 pm Friday night as I write
> this but I'm hoping someone on the other side of the world has nothing
> better to do on their Friday.;-))
> 
> Sorry to hassle you all so many times in one day...
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> (a very battle weary)
> Adrian Fischer
> Brisbane
> Australia
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 






From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 09:36:49 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:36:49 2000
Subject: [thelist] email an article:  was sending text in the body
  of an email
In-Reply-To: <20001110093835.807.qmail@web614.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110074006.00af6468@baratta.com>

At 01:38 AM 11/10/2000, you wrote:
>In case this was confusing, my dilemma is simple:  I
>need to be able to send a text article via email to a
>person just by clicking on a link.
>to pass info into the subject of an email, one creates
>the link  mailto:me at myaddress.com?subject=blahbhah
>
>can this be used for the body of the email as well?


Make a raw text file as well as an HTML file. Then just have the text 
mailed to the user.


----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From Tony at IdeaSystems.com  Fri Nov 10 09:41:29 2000
From: Tony at IdeaSystems.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:41:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIMBEPMEGCEIMGFLDGEJOCAAA.bheerssen@visualbridge.tv>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110074214.00afeaa8@baratta.com>

At 07:20 AM 11/10/2000, you wrote:
>Anthony, are you sure about this? It didn't work for me. What did work was
>modifying the <directory...> entry in the httpd.config file to read:
>
>Options -Indexes ...(blah, blah)
>
>However, that disables indexing on all directories.
>
>I'm using WinNT with Apache running as a service. Would that be a factor? Of
>course, I did remember to stop and restart the sevice before expecting the
>change to take effect.


One: I have no idea about Apache for Windows, sorry.

Two: In order for the .htaccess file to be active, you need to make one 
change to your httpd.conf file.

#
# This controls which options the .htaccess files in directories can
# override. Can also be "All", or any combination of "Options", "FileInfo",
# "AuthConfig", and "Limit"
#
     AllowOverride Options

By default the AllowOverride is set to None. I set mine to All because I'm 
the only one on the server.


----
Anthony Baratta
Isys Idea Systems

voice 510-452-4554
fax 510-452-4641




From joris at mac.com  Fri Nov 10 09:52:48 2000
From: joris at mac.com (Joris Kluivers)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:52:48 2000
Subject: [thelist] jsp
References: <B6317DE2.A8A0%bobd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <005401c04b2d$df449840$0701a8c0@WORKGROUP>

thanx bob

joris




From kaceyp at inreach.com  Fri Nov 10 09:57:16 2000
From: kaceyp at inreach.com (Kacey)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:57:16 2000
Subject: [thelist] Request For Comments (+ tips)
References: <3A0C1454.31BD7E63@acu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <010b01c04b2e$d916c1e0$0862fea9@kathyper>

Hi Katherine --

I went to your ACU site and was able to find the two application forms
easily. But I guess well, being a former academician. They would be
difficult if you didn't already know what a Marshall was, or couldn't guess
by the name on the other. My first suggestion would be to define your target
audience: is it strictly entrenched academics, or outsiders as well? If so,
a definition of the programs would be in order on the front page.

Kathy




From deboute at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 09:59:35 2000
From: deboute at yahoo.com (deboute benjamin)
Date: Fri Nov 10 09:59:35 2000
Subject: [thelist] broken link ( was : Is this spam or not? )
In-Reply-To: <003201c04a57$f4cd9da0$ecc82cc3@athlon800>
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001110170516.01b495c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

>
>
><tip type="freeware">
>
>Just out - an amazing new FREEWARE app called SpyGuru
>
>http://ilia.reznik.home.mindspring.com/spyguru.htm

healthy link
http://www.davecentral.com/9748.html



deboute benjamin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From sebastien at oven.com  Fri Nov 10 10:13:46 2000
From: sebastien at oven.com (Seb Barre)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:13:46 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
In-Reply-To: <3A0B2A9D.6C90E015@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001110110507.02c2de18@pop.oven.com>

At 04:52 PM 11/9/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>If a directory doesn't contain an index.html file, the browser will
>automatically display the contents of that directory when the url is
>just plain http://blah/path/
>
>How do I disable this option so that the contents of the directory are
>not revealed?

First question would be do you have access to the configuration files?

I will assume you don't since that's the case with most people.

If you have access control rights to your directory (with .htaccess files 
usually), you should be able to modify the options for that directory (all 
all directories under it, so drop the file in your web root if you want 
this to be the rule for your whole site).

In the .htaccess file, you will want to put the following line:

Options -Indexes

You can append this to any other lines if you have the file already.

That will disable the option to display a directory index (since it appears 
to be enabled by default).

If you DO have access to the main configuration files, you can locate the 
<Directory> block for the directory or path you want to modify and remove 
the "Indexes" option from the Options line.


--- -- -
Seb Barre - seb at oven.com
OVEN Digital Toronto
Work: 416-595-9750 x 222
Mobile: 416-254-5078
http://www.oven.com/




From george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 10:25:57 2000
From: george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk (George Dillon)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:25:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] Spyguru too popular (was broken link ( was : Is this spam or not? ))
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS> <5.0.0.25.0.20001110170516.01b495c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00ab01c04b32$e42ee360$5e0e2cc3@athlon800>

> healthy link
> http://www.davecentral.com/9748.html

Seems not, it just leads back to the author's site, which is down because it
has exceeded its bandwidth.

The download executable is 633 kb.  If anyone wants to give it a try
(Benjamin?), let me know and I'll attach and cc: it to you all in one bash
Monday say?

HTH

George Dillon




From george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 10:30:37 2000
From: george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk (George Dillon)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:30:37 2000
Subject: [thelist] Spyguru too popular (was broken link ( was : Is this spam or not? ))
Message-ID: <00b801c04b33$8e74abc0$5e0e2cc3@athlon800>

Version 1.1 is still available:

ftp://ftp.euro.net/d6/tucows/files2/spyguru.exe

ftp://ftp.cix.co.uk/mirrors/tucows.com/files2/spyguru.exe

The latest version (which is currently unobtainable) is 1.5.

HTH

George Dillon





From george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 10:35:56 2000
From: george.dillon at ukonline.co.uk (George Dillon)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:35:56 2000
Subject: [thelist] Spyguru too popular (was broken link ( was : Is this spam or not? ))
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E602@SBS> <5.0.0.25.0.20001110170516.01b495c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <00ab01c04b32$e42ee360$5e0e2cc3@athlon800>
Message-ID: <00d001c04b34$4ca15d00$5e0e2cc3@athlon800>

Aha!  Sorry, I was a bit quick before, but here it is  (version 1.5);

ftp://ftp.bitcon.no/.14/tucows/files2/spygurusetup.exe

ftp://ftp.datacomm.ch/.3/tucows/files2/spygurusetup.exe

ftp://ftp.southcom.com.au/.4/tucows/files2/spygurusetup.exe

ftp://ftp.dei.uc.pt/.disk3/tucows/files2/spygurusetup.exe

etc...  15 possible sites:

http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=spygurusetup.exe
&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=15&limdom
=&limpath=&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort
=none&trlen=20

(mind the wrap)

HTH

George Dillon




From asquier at exobox.com  Fri Nov 10 10:39:55 2000
From: asquier at exobox.com (Adam Squier)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:39:55 2000
Subject: [thelist] BG images in cells in NN
Message-ID: <2B041FB28AA4D411A6B400508BFDF38F02F5F5@ORANGE>

Hi everyone,

I've been working on a layout that uses background images in cells to
account for a fluid (or "stretchy") design. The weird thing is that some BG
images show up just fine in Netscape but others don't. In IE they're fine.
After much re-doing I finally got them all to work. It ended up being the
file name of the gif that was doing it (as far as I could tell -- that's
what worked). In my testing I wasn't able figure out what the offending
names were. 

Are there certain names (or characters) that one shouldn't use when
assigning background images to cells in Netscape?

Thanks,

Adam
__________________________
Adam E. J. Squier
Web Designer: exobox, Inc.
http://www.exobox.com/



From dwayne at mentia.com  Fri Nov 10 10:44:31 2000
From: dwayne at mentia.com (dwayne)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:44:31 2000
Subject: [thelist] jsp
In-Reply-To: <B6317DE2.A8A0%bobd@members.evolt.org>
References: <002001c04b26$cf803420$0701a8c0@WORKGROUP>
	<B6317DE2.A8A0%bobd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <14860.9338.242792.934298@edtn004804.hs.telusplanet.net>

 > on 11/10/00 9:59 AM, Joris Kluivers at joris at mac.com wrote:
 > > 
 > > i've seen a couple of sites using the extension jsp (java server pages)
 > > does someone know where to learn this stuff

just been checking into this myself. here's a couple more links:

a tutorial:
http://www.apl.jhu.edu/~hall/java/Servlet-Tutorial/

ServerPages.com:
http://www.serverpages.com/Java_Server_Pages/

IBM's Java Technology Zone:
http://www.ibm.com/developer/java/

Bruce Eckel's site
http://www.bruceeckel.com/

(if you don't already know java, i can't recommend this highly enough. i'm reading the book Thinking in Java (which is available for download from this site), and i've been very impressed with it.  highly readable).

- dwayne



From echang at redhotchips.demon.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 10:53:26 2000
From: echang at redhotchips.demon.co.uk (Erika Chang)
Date: Fri Nov 10 10:53:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] Tables Not Extending in IE 5.5
In-Reply-To: <01c901c03bcc$1665a060$18009ad8@michelef>
References: <012501c03aa3$d81f8b00$600b9ad8@michelef>
 <01c901c03bcc$1665a060$18009ad8@michelef>
Message-ID: <a05010416b631d8940a11@[198.80.123.134]>

>Thanks to everyone that had a look at this page for me
>(http://wordpro.on.ca/test.htm).  I've resigned myself to thinking it really
>IS a bug in IE 5.5 on PC (check http://ceramic.on.ca and you'll see the
>tables extend 100% across all pages just fine).  Anyway, I've spent too much
>time trying to figure this out.  Will just redesign the top part of the site
>before launching it.  Unless of course someone else does have a suggestion.
>
>Also, I apologize to everyone that had tried to look while my server went
>down for a couple of hours Friday afternoon.

try adding rightmargin=0 to BODY tag?



From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Fri Nov 10 11:04:07 2000
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Fri Nov 10 11:04:07 2000
Subject: [thelist] Request For Comments (+ tips)
References: <3A0C1454.31BD7E63@acu.ac.uk> <010b01c04b2e$d916c1e0$0862fea9@kathyper>
Message-ID: <3A0C2AA6.907078A@acu.ac.uk>

Hi Kathy - Thanks for the feedback.

> My first suggestion would be to define your target
> audience: is it strictly entrenched academics, or outsiders as well? If so,
> a definition of the programs would be in order on the front page.

That's part of the problem - our users are mainly students or other
people with specific interests (and we're a bit of an umbrella org
covering loads of different areas), but Management are convinced that
the Vice Chancellors of our member unis should be a specific group to
target - but currently there's not much to draw them in - i was kinda
hoping a "commonwealth higher education news forum" might be something
"entrenched academics" would use ;-), while allowing me to make the site
more useable for everyone.

Katherine



From cheryl.baringer at usa.alcatel.com  Fri Nov 10 11:08:52 2000
From: cheryl.baringer at usa.alcatel.com (Cheryl Baringer)
Date: Fri Nov 10 11:08:52 2000
Subject: [thelist] </form> without whitespace.css in NN?
References: <20001110162603.9A8E91BDFF@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3A0C2C89.DC29AC96@usa.alcatel.com>

Earlier this week there was a discussion about the whitespace that
appears after a Select element in a form. The CSS solutions work in IE,
but has anyone found a way to eliminate this annoying space in Netscape? 

Thanks,
Cheryl Baringer



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Nov 10 11:21:19 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Nov 10 11:21:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] Friday Freebie
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6BF@gate.ti3.com>

dunno about you, but this week went by pretty fast here, and a good dose of
biscuits and gravy didn't hurt....

<tip type="Session object notes" author="Scott Dexter"
email="sgd at thinksafely.org">
* The Session_OnStart in the global.asa subroutine is reliable

* The Session_OnEnd is NOT. --don't use it (its not fixed in IIS5)

* When using Session.Abandon, existing Session values are available until
the page finishes processing. In other words, You can have Session.Abandon
and still use Session values on the same page, just not after it

* Placing an apartment threaded object into a Session variable is a **BAD**
thing. It reduces IIS to a single thread, and will seriously hose your
performance. The current set of ADO objects are of this type. So is the
MS-provided Dictionary object. Check and make sure the components you load
into Session variables are 'free' or 'both' threaded

* If you're placing values from a recordset into Session variables, cast
them to ensure that they aren't passed by reference --which would be a
pointer to the recordset's value, such that when you close the recordset
your Session variable is blown away. Casting causes it to be passed by
value, which is safe: Session("userid") = CStr(oRS("userid"))

* Session objects are stored on the web server, not in cookies. The only
cookie that is passed back and forth with the browser is the Session ID
(SESSID), a really, really long randomly generated string. MS SiteServer
passes an ID value in addition to the SESSID

* Beware of large structures/amounts of data in Session variables. Remember
that you are taking up server memory with Session objects, and they don't go
away quickly; I don't want you eating up all your server's memory with
umpteen million Session objects. Look into storing back to a db instead
</tip>

I'm gonna shoot for a non-ASP FF next week ....

(stop snickering)
sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/



From djc at five2one.org  Fri Nov 10 14:04:52 2000
From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:04:52 2000
Subject: [thelist] Unix Friday Freebie
Message-ID: <3A0C6401.74E9D0AD@five2one.org>

Since the venerable sgd's friday freebies are always windows based, and
since i need to test a new setting on the list relay servers, i thought
i'd share with some of us that are on the other side of force :)
(although scotts tips are always good, no doubt :)

<tip type="unix quickies">

Are you 'su'ing to root, but stuff isn't working? Make sure you use the
command 'su - root' to load env variables for the user you're su'ing to.

Got problems with memory exceptions and other bad memory problems with
solaris 7(2.7) and below? Upgrade to Solaris 8. All of those ebay
crashes we heard about last spring are due to some memory bugs in
solaris 7. Version 8 fixes most of these, along with a number of other
issues.

If you're running a server that deals with large files, don't use a
standard linux filesystem! By default, the ext2 FS reads and writes in
1024 byte chunks. This is nice for small files, but will kill
performance(the end all be all :) when you're dealing with large files
on DB, email, proxy, and web servers. Instead, have your FS write in
4096 byte chunks with the command mke2fs -b 4096 /dev/sda1 (for
example). You'll see an incredible amount of performance in your disk
I/O subsystem, which is *the* most common place for bottlenecks on
servers.

If possible, recompile your linux kernel to *not* include loadable
modules. And compile out the ones that you dont use. This will also
increase performance.(Do you really need a USB module on your
webserver?)

On AIX, Lsdev -Cc <device>  will list the available items, what address
they are at, the bus slot, and what name the system gave them.

</tip>

.djc.



From comitque at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 10 14:05:19 2000
From: comitque at hotmail.com (Andrew Martin)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:05:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS & Netscape
Message-ID: <4120001151020548116@prispop.com>

I'm trying to build a dynamic popup box containing menu items.  It works
and looks great in IE but Netscape has at least one major problem.  

The box, a div, has a 1px border with a colored inner body.  In Netscape,
it shows the border and then about 2px of whitespace, showing the text
underneath the box, and then the colored inner body.  How do I get rid of
that white space?  I've tried adjusting the margin and adjusting the
padding but neither works. 

Here's the CSS part:
.menu { 
position:absolute;
visibility:hidden;
background-color: #CCCC99;
width: auto;
height: auto;
border-style: solid;
border-color: #993333;
border-width: 1px;
margin:0px;
padding: 2px;
font-size : 12px;
font-family: "verdana", "helvetica";
line-height: 14px;
}

Please reply via direct email since I get the digest.  Thanks!






From one_webdude at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 14:44:19 2000
From: one_webdude at yahoo.com (Terry Fowler)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:44:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] Unix Friday Freebie
Message-ID: <20001110204446.25800.qmail@web119.yahoomail.com>

--- "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at five2one.org> wrote:
> Since the venerable sgd's friday freebies are always
> windows based, and
> since i need to test a new setting on the list relay
> servers, i thought
> i'd share with some of us that are on the other side
> of force :)
> (although scotts tips are always good, no doubt :)
> 
> <tip type="unix quickies">
> 
Way to go djc!! Keep 'em coming. I spend most of my
day in Solaris 2.5 and HPUX 1020. One of the
requirements for being a UNIX guru is having a 
fantastic memory (which I don't) or a great notebook
full of UNIX commands. I just checked mine for the 
command to get the OS version and couldn't find it.
Erm, maybe this is a hint for the next Unix Friday
Freebie?

Terry "Not a Guru" Fowler

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From quackamoe at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 14:55:31 2000
From: quackamoe at yahoo.com (Quackamoe)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:55:31 2000
Subject: [thelist] Simple Apache question
Message-ID: <20001110205555.17823.qmail@web1101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Anthony Baratta <Tony at IdeaSystems.com> wrote:
> 
> One: I have no idea about Apache for Windows, sorry.
> 
Works fine with Apache1.3.6/Win95 as long as you
have done #Two: below.

Terry Fowler

> Two: In order for the .htaccess file to be active,
> you need to make one 
> change to your httpd.conf file.
> 
> #
> # This controls which options the .htaccess files in
> directories can
> # override. Can also be "All", or any combination of
> "Options", "FileInfo",
> # "AuthConfig", and "Limit"
> #
>      AllowOverride Options
> 
> By default the AllowOverride is set to None. I set
> mine to All because I'm 
> the only one on the server.
> 
> ----
> Anthony Baratta
> Isys Idea Systems

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/



From talleman at autobex.com  Fri Nov 10 14:58:41 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:58:41 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6BF@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEIEEECBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

Problem: My @@Identity is experiencing a meltdown in the middle of my script
and I don't know why.

Background:  I've got a table in SQLServer7 that I import data to from
smaller tables.
When I import the data, I want to check to see if I already have that Item
in the database.
If the item is already there I want to (trust me when I say it has to be
this way) make a copy of the existing record, and update the copy with the
new data.  So I do this.

<psuedo ASP code>
DO WHILE NOT rsImport.EOF
	SELECT ID FROM MainTable WHERE TheImportData = TheMainTableData
	IF NOT EOF '(there are duplicates)
		DO WHILE NOT EOF 'so for each duplicate
			SELECT somefields FROM MainTable WHERE ID = (TheIDWeJustSelected)
			INSERT INTO MainTable (The Fields and Values we just Selected) 'make a
duplicate
			NewID = SELECT @@IDENTITY 'get the autonumber of the new record
			UPDATE MainTable SET (fields and values) WHERE ID = NewID
			MoveNext
		LOOP
	ELSE
		INSERT INTO MainTable (a new record)
	END IF
LOOP


Symptoms:  The script runs fine through several iterations of the outer
loop, and then it hits one where @@Identity doesn't return a value for some
reason, and it therefore explodes on the UPDATE statement.  Looking at the
data as it's written to the screen, I can only see one unusual thing about
the record it stops on everytime:  When it begins, it starts finding
duplicates in sequential order.. the first time it finds a duplicate with ID
#387, then 388, then 389...etc.  The one that it blows up on is the first
break in the sequence.. (it finds a dupe way back at 129).. but I don't see
what that would have to do with the @@Identity of the newly inserted record.

I've tried switching to all static cursors with the same results.. anybody
have any idea what could be causing this??

'preciate any thoughts.

Tab




From Tony at IdeaSystems.com  Fri Nov 10 14:59:51 2000
From: Tony at IdeaSystems.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 14:59:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] Unix Friday Freebie
In-Reply-To: <20001110204446.25800.qmail@web119.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110130330.0223df00@baratta.com>

  I just checked mine for the
>command to get the OS version and couldn't find it.
>Erm, maybe this is a hint for the next Unix Friday
>Freebie?



uname -a

;-)

----
Anthony Baratta
Isys Idea Systems

voice 510-452-4554
fax 510-452-4641




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 15:20:58 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 15:20:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEIEEECBAA.talleman@autobex.com>
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6BF@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110132159.0221b180@baratta.com>

At 12:58 PM 11/10/2000, you wrote:
>Problem: My @@Identity is experiencing a meltdown in the middle of my script
>and I don't know why.

Can we see some real code? That would help me to help you. When I grab 
@@Identity I do this:

         strQuery = "INSERT INTO TableOne VALUES(Null,"
         strQuery = strQuery & blah blah blah
         objDB_Connection.Execute(strQuery)

         objDB_RecordSet.Open "Select @@Identity"
             varIdentity = objDB_RecordSet(0)
         objDB_RecordSet.Close



----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Nov 10 15:30:41 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Nov 10 15:30:41 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6CA@gate.ti3.com>

I use a trigger to insert into a second table instead of using @@Identity:

create Trigger tbGroupWWW_Add_tbGTSAudit
On dbo.tbGroupWWW
For Insert
As
Set nocount on
	If Update (uid)
		Begin
			declare @id int
			Select @id=i.uid from inserted i
			Insert into tbGTSAudit(id) values (@id)
		End


(the tbGTSAudit table has defaults on the other columns so the insert is
just the id value)

it grabs the auto-created id and uses it to insert into the second table.
Since @@Identity is a SERVER WIDE global variable, you can't be guaranteed
of its value through the lifetime of your loop. In other words, some other
process can change the @@Identity value without you knowing it.

dunno if this helps your specific scenario, but its an idea at least (you
can use a trigger for inserts, updates, deletes, or combinations thereof)

you would use it to do your Update below ....

sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tab Alleman [mailto:talleman at autobex.com]
> 
> 
> Problem: My @@Identity is experiencing a meltdown in the 
> middle of my script
> and I don't know why.
> 

> 			NewID = SELECT @@IDENTITY 'get the 
> autonumber of the new record
> 			UPDATE MainTable SET (fields and 
> values) WHERE ID = NewID



From talleman at autobex.com  Fri Nov 10 15:31:44 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Fri Nov 10 15:31:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110132159.0221b180@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMEEEEFCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

well, that section of the real code looks like this:

	sqlSku = "SELECT @@Identity"
	Set rsSku = usConn.Execute(sqlSku)
	ThisSku = rsSku.Fields.Item(0).value
	rsSku.Close
	Set rsSku = Nothing

Any other sections?  I didn't wanna post a few hundred lines of my sloppy
code.  Nobody would want to help me for sure.

-----Original Message-----
Can we see some real code? That would help me to help you. When I grab
@@Identity I do this:

         strQuery = "INSERT INTO TableOne VALUES(Null,"
         strQuery = strQuery & blah blah blah
         objDB_Connection.Execute(strQuery)

         objDB_RecordSet.Open "Select @@Identity"
             varIdentity = objDB_RecordSet(0)
         objDB_RecordSet.Close




From miakurt at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 15:41:01 2000
From: miakurt at yahoo.com (Mia Kurt)
Date: Fri Nov 10 15:41:01 2000
Subject: [thelist] jsp
Message-ID: <20001110214124.60555.qmail@web9106.mail.yahoo.com>

http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/docs.html
this would be a very good place to start. if you go
through the tutorial you will be fine 


--- Joris Kluivers <joris at mac.com> wrote:
> hi,
> 
> i've seen a couple of sites using the extension jsp
> (java server pages)
> does someone know where to learn this stuff
> 
> Joris
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/



From jaylard at equilon.com  Fri Nov 10 15:45:08 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Fri Nov 10 15:45:08 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS & Netscape
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CCB3@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Andrew,

> The box, a div, has a 1px border with a colored inner body.  In Netscape,
> it shows the border and then about 2px of whitespace, showing the text
> underneath the box, and then the colored inner body.  How do I get rid of
> that white space?  I've tried adjusting the margin and adjusting the
> padding but neither works. 

	As you have discovered, getting CSS to work in Netscape 4 can be a
major pain. The short answer to your question is this:

layer-background-color: #cccc99 ;

	This is a proprietary (and very poorly documented) Netscape CSS
property that does what background-color is supposed to do, but it requires
that a value of either absolute or relative be applied to the div (or
"layer", in Netscape parlance) in order to work. I have found that it can be
flaky when applied to a relatively positioned layer, however.
	Since IE (as well as every other browser) does not recognize this
CSS property, it ignores it, allowing background-color and
layer-background-color to coexist peacefully in the same style declaration
(but be sure to set both to the same color). There is a
layer-background-image property as well, btw.

hth,
James Aylard



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 16:12:29 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 16:12:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6CA@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110141247.0225e290@baratta.com>

At 01:24 PM 11/10/2000, you wrote:
>I use a trigger to insert into a second table instead of using @@Identity:
>
>it grabs the auto-created id and uses it to insert into the second table.
>Since @@Identity is a SERVER WIDE global variable, you can't be guaranteed
>of its value through the lifetime of your loop. In other words, some other
>process can change the @@Identity value without you knowing it.

Scott...

My understanding was that @@Identity was not global, but was specific to 
your connection object and that other updates to the Database would not 
step on the @@Identity you are trying to grab.

I do know that if you have triggers setup on the target table you are doing 
the insert on, you don't end up with the @@Identity of the target file you 
end up with the @@Identity of the last triggered insert of one of the other 
tables.

Do you have any pointers to documentation that state @@Identity is global, 
not connection specific?

----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From talleman at autobex.com  Fri Nov 10 16:21:47 2000
From: talleman at autobex.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Fri Nov 10 16:21:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6CA@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJGEDOLLGMGNIBGMECEEGCBAA.talleman@autobex.com>

too radical for 5 PM on Friday..  :)  I'll try it Monday morning and let you
know how it goes!

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 4:25 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] ASP: @@Identity


I use a trigger to insert into a second table instead of using @@Identity:

create Trigger tbGroupWWW_Add_tbGTSAudit
On dbo.tbGroupWWW
For Insert
As
Set nocount on
	If Update (uid)
		Begin
			declare @id int
			Select @id=i.uid from inserted i
			Insert into tbGTSAudit(id) values (@id)
		End


(the tbGTSAudit table has defaults on the other columns so the insert is
just the id value)

it grabs the auto-created id and uses it to insert into the second table.
Since @@Identity is a SERVER WIDE global variable, you can't be guaranteed
of its value through the lifetime of your loop. In other words, some other
process can change the @@Identity value without you knowing it.

dunno if this helps your specific scenario, but its an idea at least (you
can use a trigger for inserts, updates, deletes, or combinations thereof)

you would use it to do your Update below ....

sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tab Alleman [mailto:talleman at autobex.com]
>
>
> Problem: My @@Identity is experiencing a meltdown in the
> middle of my script
> and I don't know why.
>

> 			NewID = SELECT @@IDENTITY 'get the
> autonumber of the new record
> 			UPDATE MainTable SET (fields and
> values) WHERE ID = NewID

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Nov 10 16:33:58 2000
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Nov 10 16:33:58 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6CE@gate.ti3.com>

> Do you have any pointers to documentation that state 
> @@Identity is global, 
> not connection specific?



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Fri Nov 10 16:41:21 2000
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Fri Nov 10 16:41:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] BG images in cells in NN
References: <2B041FB28AA4D411A6B400508BFDF38F02F5F5@ORANGE>
Message-ID: <3A0C7926.808CAB67@sam-i-am.com>

> After much re-doing I finally got them all to work. It ended up being the
> file name of the gif that was doing it (as far as I could tell -- that's
> what worked). In my testing I wasn't able figure out what the offending
> names were.

that is truly wacky. If you are able to pin it down let us know. 
I can confirm having had problems using _images with transparency_ as
table backgrounds before (in netscape).  
So that's something to check for. 

When testing this kind of thing, also bear in mind that in Netscape if
something breaks -like a table background- earlier on in a page, other
table backgrounds (that would otherwise be ok) may also be broken. This
is kind of voodoo - I can reproduce this behaviour with radio background
colors for example - but it's something I've had trouble with off and on
with other things. The lessson is to test the most reduced case - single
out exactly what you are testing and put that and that only on a page. 

Sorry this is a little fluffy :) 

> Are there certain names (or characters) that one shouldn't use when
> assigning background images to cells in Netscape?

I'm sticking my neck out and saying no, provided they are valid
filenames, it should make no difference.

Sam



From marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com  Fri Nov 10 17:10:18 2000
From: marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com (Marlene Bruce)
Date: Fri Nov 10 17:10:18 2000
Subject: [thelist] BG images in cells in NN
Message-ID: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA616265BDE@EXCHANGE>

In earlier days, when I was more stupid than I am now, I made some asterisk
images for a web site and named the files something like "*_b.gif" and
"*_r.gif" (b=blue, r=red).

They worked on my Mac. They puked on the server.

Dunno if that might be a contributing factor in your table cell background
image issue. As Sam said, "...provided they are valid filenames..."

Marlene



From asquier at exobox.com  Fri Nov 10 17:24:48 2000
From: asquier at exobox.com (Adam Squier)
Date: Fri Nov 10 17:24:48 2000
Subject: [thelist] BG images in cells in NN
Message-ID: <2B041FB28AA4D411A6B400508BFDF38F02F5FD@ORANGE>

> > After much re-doing I finally got them all to work. It 
> ended up being the
> > file name of the gif that was doing it (as far as I could 
> tell -- that's
> > what worked). In my testing I wasn't able figure out what 
> the offending
> > names were.
> 
> that is truly wacky. If you are able to pin it down let us know. 
> I can confirm having had problems using _images with transparency_ as
> table backgrounds before (in netscape).  
> So that's something to check for. 

I _was_ using transparent GIFs as the background. Perhaps that's why I was
having difficulties. 

> When testing this kind of thing, also bear in mind that in Netscape if
> something breaks -like a table background- earlier on in a page, other
> table backgrounds (that would otherwise be ok) may also be 
> broken. This
> is kind of voodoo - I can reproduce this behaviour with radio 
> background
> colors for example - but it's something I've had trouble with 
> off and on
> with other things. 

I could substitute other GIFs that were working elsewhere and they'd display
properly. Some were working at the top of the page, others at the bottom,
but there were still some sticklers that didn't want to cooperate.

The lessson is to test the most reduced 
> case - single
> out exactly what you are testing and put that and that only 
> on a page. 
> 
> Sorry this is a little fluffy :) 
> 
> > Are there certain names (or characters) that one shouldn't use when
> > assigning background images to cells in Netscape?
> 
> I'm sticking my neck out and saying no, provided they are valid
> filenames, it should make no difference.
> 
> Sam

And in the end, just changing the file name did the trick. As far as I know
the file names were OK. Things like bottombg_left_03.gif and such. Needless
to say, it was a frustrating day. But it's working now. Thanks for your
insight.

--Adam



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Nov 10 17:39:57 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Nov 10 17:39:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their newsletters?
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>

Well?  Do ya?

Thanks

CDitty




From webshot at neoncowboy.com  Fri Nov 10 17:54:13 2000
From: webshot at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Fri Nov 10 17:54:13 2000
Subject: [thelist] hard won vector art tip...
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAEEPDCPAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>

I spent at least 3 hours on this and share it up so that you won't have to
waste time with the same thing...

<tip type="exporting from Illustrator to .swf">
This is probably platform dependant, but I'm using Windows 2000 with
1600x1200 screen res.
When exporting from Illustrator 9 to .swf, the default ppi is 72. This seems
good, considering all of the years of '72 dpi for the web' we've all
endured. Problem is, that's not always true screen res. Mine is 96dpi. This
makes things not line up quite right after the export. Specifically, I had
all of this type within a path. It looked great in Illustrator, but when
exported to Flash, the type overran its boundaries and ran all over itself.
Solution: export at true screen res, 96dpi.
</tip>

have a good weekend,
John Corry




From dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org  Fri Nov 10 17:58:21 2000
From: dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (Dulcie Meatheringham)
Date: Fri Nov 10 17:58:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their newsletters?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJHDHOLHCLPJKONBNEEAJCDAA.dulcie@heritagecommunityfdn.org>

CDitty wrote:

> Well?  Do ya?
>
> Thanks
>
> CDitty

We've only sent out one newsletter so far, using SPAM:
http://www.greenspun.com/spam/

It looked like ass.  It's free, and it's easy for people to sign-up, though.
I just need to learn how to format the message properly.  I didn't test it
before unleashing it on our poor subscribers.

The E-Groups list we had proved to be too confusing for our audience.  I am
on several E-groups announce lists and they seem to work well, though people
tend to complain about the ads included with every mail-out.

Happy Friday!

-Dulcie.
--
Dulcie Meatheringham, Website Admin.
(780) 424-6512, x227
http://www.heritagecommunityfdn.org
Heritage Community Foundation
http://www.albertaheritage.net
Gateway to Alberta's Heritage
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/alberta
Alberta: How the West was Young




From meredith at pintsize.com  Fri Nov 10 18:00:16 2000
From: meredith at pintsize.com (Meredith Tupper)
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:00:16 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their newsletters?
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <3A0C8BDC.C38A57E0@pintsize.com>

CDitty wrote:

> Well?  Do ya?

I've used eGroups before.  Easy enough and you can ditch the
annoying ads if you pay.

Meredith

--
PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
http://www.pintsize.com
meredith at pintsize.com
3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
Tampa, FL 33629
813-835-5382





From Joanna.N.Goslicka at aero.org  Fri Nov 10 18:05:36 2000
From: Joanna.N.Goslicka at aero.org (Joanna.N.Goslicka at aero.org)
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:05:36 2000
Subject: [thelist] frames disappearing/collapsing in IE
Message-ID: <OFAF3DCBBC.3058E4A9-ON88256994.00007493@aero.org>

this particular site  is using frames which work fine in
Netscape but disappear in Internet Explorer.

they used Front Page for those pages - but as far as i can tell there is
no code weirdness.

what happens is this: in IE, unless the window is maximized, the frame
pages
collapse so that only the top and bottom banners show.  The left column,
and the
largest frame, where text appears, are gone.
Maximizing the window does fix it (sometimes), but the window must remain
maximized.

On Microsoft's help page, I did find some reference to this problem.  MS
suggests
making sure there is NO code between the HEAD and FRAMESET of the document.
those pages don't have any code there, so that didn't help.

MS also suggests removing the BODY tag.   The one time I did this, I
assumed they
meant the BODY tags from the FRAME PAGE html code (as opposed to the BODY
tags on the individual pages that go into the frames).  I tried it, and the
result was
that the page was viewed as collapsed whether I maximized the view or not.
So,
neither solution worked and I've never come across another solution.

Short of redoing all our web pages to eliminate frames, are there any
fixes?

thanks!
jo






From taracleveland at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 10 18:16:32 2000
From: taracleveland at hotmail.com (Tara Cleveland)
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:16:32 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anchors going screwy in IE
Message-ID: <F81tQvAauNjVuMhvqgS00000083@hotmail.com>

Hi Everyone!

<whine> It's Friday night and I want to go home!</whine>

Now that I've got that out of my system, I'm hoping one of you brilliant 
people can help me and a collegue with a dilemma.
We've got a page with anchors linking to another page with #anchors in them. 
These pages work in Netscape on Mac and PC and IE on a PC,  but not in IE 
(4.5 or 5) on a Mac.

I've validated the code with BBEdit's validator and it checks out. It's 
driving us crazy.

This is the link from the linking page:
<A HREF="efficacy.html#kidney" TITLE="[Kidney Transplantation]" 
TARGET="mainFrame">Kidney Transplantation</A>

And from the linked page:
<h1><a name="kidney"><I>KIDNEY</I>&nbsp;TRANSPLANTATION</A></H1>

I'm sorry I can't provide more code or a page to view the problem (site's 
not live yet).

So has anyone else had a similar problem or can see the problem here? Are we 
blind?

Please reply directly to taracleveland at hotmail.com as I'm on digest.

Thanks in advance,
Tara

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From jaylard at equilon.com  Fri Nov 10 18:20:04 2000
From: jaylard at equilon.com (Aylard JA (James))
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:20:04 2000
Subject: [thelist] frames disappearing/collapsing in IE
Message-ID: <8B8252E8924BD31193D800805FE63E6D0104CCB8@mzrmsx02.newcos.com>

Joanna, 

> this particular site  is using frames which work fine in
> Netscape but disappear in Internet Explorer.

	Can you post the frameset code or, better yet, a URL?

James Aylard



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Nov 10 18:34:57 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:34:57 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their
  newsletters?
In-Reply-To: <3A0C8BDC.C38A57E0@pintsize.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110182904.00aa66a0@redhotsweeps.com>

I have a list on eGroups, nothing fancy but I don't have to worry about 
actually maintaining it.  The problem is that I think they were hacked 
early this am.  My list and a few other lists received some weird email 
that pointed to a Turkish website.  Problem is, my list is an announcement 
only list and that I am the only one that can post.  This person spoofed my 
email address and the addresses of SEVERAL other lists belongs to friends.

Just curious if anyone here had the same problem.

CDitty

At 05:59 PM 11/10/00, Meredith Tupper wrote:
>CDitty wrote:
>
> > Well?  Do ya?
>
>I've used eGroups before.  Easy enough and you can ditch the
>annoying ads if you pay.
>
>Meredith
>
>--
>PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
>http://www.pintsize.com
>meredith at pintsize.com
>3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
>Tampa, FL 33629
>813-835-5382
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From mpgalvin at eircom.net  Fri Nov 10 18:42:45 2000
From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin)
Date: Fri Nov 10 18:42:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] Java/JS/DHTML scroller for ASP
Message-ID: <00ba01c04b78$eb1a4520$e1e2869f@mpgalvin>

Anyone know of a good Jave applet or similiar that will scroll text up
within a set area.  It has to have the following:

1. be free
2. support ASP (I want to build the contents of the scolling section on the
fly)
3. not work from an external file (I have one that does this, but I couldn't
for the life of me figure out how to create the external file "on the fly")
4. support links.  Ideally, the link would change colour when it is hovered
over.
5. pause when mouseover
6. support long lines that wrap (ie., it shouldn't matter how long the line
is)

There you go!  Not asking for much, am I?

TIA
Michael




From bmonchka at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 10 20:25:59 2000
From: bmonchka at hotmail.com (Barret A Monchka)
Date: Fri Nov 10 20:25:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] image rollovers
Message-ID: <F2812PNLQ0zuipycyOO00001363@hotmail.com>

   I was looking for javascript code for an image rollover script.  I would 
prefer to have the rollover be called as a javascript function and have it 
really easy to set up.  Does anybody have javascript code for an image 
rollover (in a function) ?

Thanks,

Barret

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Nov 10 20:40:11 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Fri Nov 10 20:40:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] image rollovers
In-Reply-To: <F2812PNLQ0zuipycyOO00001363@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIENKDGAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

barret,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Barret A Monchka
: 
: I was looking for javascript code for an image rollover 
: script.  I would prefer to have the rollover be called as
: a javascript function and have it really easy to set up. 
: Does anybody have javascript code for an image
: rollover (in a function) ?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://lists.evolt.org/oldarchive/Week-of-Mon-19990920/004413.html

and a working example here:

http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/preload_n_rollover/

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org



From drgo at zoomnet.net  Fri Nov 10 20:44:32 2000
From: drgo at zoomnet.net (CapDragon)
Date: Fri Nov 10 20:44:32 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their newsletters?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBKECBFOGCAFCLNLGDGEBECJAA.drgo@zoomnet.net>

Yes, I do - May I ask why YOU ask ???

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of CDitty
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 3:37 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their
newsletters?


Well?  Do ya?

Thanks

CDitty


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 21:50:19 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 21:50:19 2000
Subject: [thelist] ASP:  @@Identity
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117223F6CE@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3A0CBDBF.219E8C89@Baratta.com>

Thanks!!!

I also found this.

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q163/4/46.asp

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Nov 10 21:56:23 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Nov 10 21:56:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their
  newsletters?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBKECBFOGCAFCLNLGDGEBECJAA.drgo@zoomnet.net>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110173554.0224c8a0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001110214622.0250aeb0@redhotsweeps.com>

Because my list and a few others I know about were hacked last night.  I 
was curious if anyone else that had a eGroups list had theirs hacked too.

At 11:44 PM 11/10/00, you wrote:
>Yes, I do - May I ask why YOU ask ???
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of CDitty
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 3:37 PM
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their
>newsletters?
>
>
>Well?  Do ya?
>
>Thanks
>
>CDitty
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From rwd at csi1st.net  Fri Nov 10 22:46:34 2000
From: rwd at csi1st.net (Ron Dorman)
Date: Fri Nov 10 22:46:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] htaccess and subdirectories
Message-ID: <3A0CCFE9.5E93E7D5@csi1st.net>

I have set up htaccess and it functioning very well except for one
detail.

We have a subdirectory within our site that is protected.  When a link
to that area is clicked, the authentication challenge is presented.  We
have two levels of access: first level lets the user see a listing of
all subdirectories (mini-sites) within the directory and select one of
those links to the subdirectories, second level redirects the user to
one of the subdirectories and lets them see nothing else.  If you are a
level one user all is well, you authenticate one time and the page is
displayed, select a subdirectory link and you go there.  If you are
level two user, the authentication challenge is presented twice.  The
user gets the right page but has to enter uid/pw two times.

I have read documentation and how-to's 'till my eyes are bleeding!!!!
found no solution.

Can any of you wonderful wizards shed some light on this for me?

Thanks,
Ron D.




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Nov 10 23:00:21 2000
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Nov 10 23:00:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] htaccess and subdirectories
References: <3A0CCFE9.5E93E7D5@csi1st.net>
Message-ID: <3A0CD272.CA4A9BAE@Baratta.com>

Ron Dorman wrote:
> 
> one of the subdirectories and lets them see nothing else.  If you are a
> level one user all is well, you authenticate one time and the page is
> displayed, select a subdirectory link and you go there.  If you are
> level two user, the authentication challenge is presented twice.  The
> user gets the right page but has to enter uid/pw two times.


Are the "realms" exactly the same??

Can we see the two .htaccess file (obfuscated of course).

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
KeyBoard Jockeys
                    South Park Speaks Version 3 is here!!!
                       http://www.baratta.com/southpark
                              Powered by Tsunami



From peter at hammar.ch  Sat Nov 11 03:51:22 2000
From: peter at hammar.ch (Peter Hammar)
Date: Sat Nov 11 03:51:22 2000
Subject: [thelist] Java/JS/DHTML scroller for ASP
Message-ID: <004601c04bc4$f972d6e0$0f2823d4@vectra>

>Anyone know of a good Jave applet or similiar that will scroll text up
>within a set area.  It has to have the following:
>
>1. be free
>2. support ASP (I want to build the contents of the scolling section on the
>fly)
>3. not work from an external file (I have one that does this, but I
couldn't
>for the life of me figure out how to create the external file "on the fly")
>4. support links.  Ideally, the link would change colour when it is hovered
>over.
>5. pause when mouseover
>6. support long lines that wrap (ie., it shouldn't matter how long the line
>is)


Hi,
here's one:
<wrap>
http://www.bratta.com/dhtml/scripts.asp?url=scripts/scripts.asp?id=3&ac=25&o
rder=created
</wrap>

the scrolling content is in a layer so you can put anything in it
it works in: NN4 IE4 IE5

HTH





From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Sat Nov 11 04:14:07 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Sat Nov 11 04:14:07 2000
Subject: [thelist] 16-bit IE3 (was IE4 and IE5)
In-Reply-To: <01b001c03a19$44214b80$a17ffea9@athlon800>
References: <3.0.6.32.20001019201604.007a8790@pop.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001111230631.00aa6b00@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 23:00 19/10/2000 +0100, you wrote:

>After a normal installation of 3.03.2925 corrupted my IE5, I searched a
>stack of ancient ISP trial disk, found 3.0a.1563 and 'installed' it by
>extracting the files from the .cab (NOT running the install program).

I've always used 3.0.1152, have always used the install program, and have 
never had any trouble.  It's never caused any problem to installations of 
IE4 or IE5. I've used it under Win95, Win98, and Win2k.

I feel comfortable recommending this version to anyone.

</ol>

____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From madhu at asiacontent.com  Sat Nov 11 05:53:38 2000
From: madhu at asiacontent.com (Madhu Menon)
Date: Sat Nov 11 05:53:38 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their
  newsletters?
In-Reply-To: <20001111101412.6FD4D1BE04@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001111162117.0300e778@200.200.200.111>

At 03:44 PM 11/11/2000, thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org penned the following 
words:
>Well?  Do ya?

Well, I have done so in the past. I've used it for both hobby groups as 
well as a web site's large newsletter base (45000 people). What is it you 
want to know?

Onelist etc. are fine if your subscriber base is small and manageable. But 
I wouldn't recommend it for large mailing lists. The Webmonster web design 
list lost a lot of people when they switched to Topica (I was one of them).

I would be able to better answer your question if I had more specific use 
requirements (does that sound too formal? ;)

Cheers,

Madhu
<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
Webmaster, India.CNET.com
http://India.CNET.com
The source for computers and technology

{* Stay on top of the wired world. *}
Subscribe to India.CNET.com newsletters
http://India.CNET.com/Subscription





From ppk at xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 11 06:40:11 2000
From: ppk at xs4all.nl (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Nov 11 06:40:11 2000
Subject: [thelist] CSS & Netscape
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001111134228.007e47f0@pop.xs4all.nl>

>The box, a div, has a 1px border with a colored inner body.  In Netscape,
>it shows the border and then about 2px of whitespace, showing the text
>underneath the box, and then the colored inner body.  How do I get rid of
>that white space?  I've tried adjusting the margin and adjusting the
>padding but neither works. 

Add

layer-background-color: #cccc99;

to the style sheet.

ppk



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Nov 11 08:02:28 2000
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Nov 11 08:02:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Style Sheet Problem with links...
Message-ID: <006901c04be8$1209c560$450d9ad8@michelef>

Morning everyone,

I'm trying to get a link to be a different colour (i.e. LIGHT) on a dark
background on half of my site.  All works fine in IE, the links on dark are
light, and the links on light are dark (default).

But, NS, nope, it is ignoring the class and using the default.  Can anyone
see what I've done wrong please.

Style sheet,

A,a.light:link {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color:
#FFFF99; background: #9999CC;}
A,a.light:active {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #FFFF99;
background: #9999CC;}
A,a.light:visited {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color:
#FFFF99; background: #9999CC;}
A,a.light:hover {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #FFFF99;
background: #9999CC;}

A,a:link {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color: #000099;
background: #FFFFFF;}
A,a:visited {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color: #9999CC;
background: #FFFFFF;}
A,a:active {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #000099;
background: #FFFFFF;}
A,a:hover {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #000099;
background: #FFFFFF;}

Links in text,

For the light version only works in IE (NS takes on default):

<a href="mylink.asp" class="light">My Link</a>

For the default version works in IE and NS:

<a href="mylink.asp">My Link</a>


Any ideas??

TIA,

Michele



___________________________

Michele Foster
WordPro Services
Aurora, Ontario, Canada
mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
http://wordpro.on.ca/





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Nov 11 08:06:39 2000
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Nov 11 08:06:39 2000
Subject: [thelist] More Info on Style Sheet Problem
Message-ID: <007801c04be8$a7082a80$450d9ad8@michelef>

Hi Again,

I just realized, it appears that NS is ignoring the "default" style sheet
too.  All links are blue, when active they turn RED, and then go back to the
same blue.  I don't have RED in my style at all.  <sigh>  :(

TIA

Michele

___________________________

Michele Foster
WordPro Services
Aurora, Ontario, Canada
mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca
http://wordpro.on.ca/





From bekah at nightvisions.com  Sat Nov 11 08:25:09 2000
From: bekah at nightvisions.com (Rebekah Murphy)
Date: Sat Nov 11 08:25:09 2000
Subject: [thelist] Style Sheet Problem with links...
References: <006901c04be8$1209c560$450d9ad8@michelef>
Message-ID: <3A0D56DB.2B9525EE@nightvisions.com>

Michele Foster wrote:
> 
> But, NS, nope, it is ignoring the class and using the default.  Can anyone
> see what I've done wrong please.
> 
> Style sheet,
> 
> A,a.light:link {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color:
> #FFFF99; background: #9999CC;}
(snip)

Try taking out the A, from the styles. The browsers should just ignore
capitulation. As to your red active links, what is specified in the BODY tag?

-Bekah



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Nov 11 09:02:34 2000
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Nov 11 09:02:34 2000
Subject: [thelist] Style Sheet Problem with links...  SOLVED
References: <006901c04be8$1209c560$450d9ad8@michelef> <3A0D56DB.2B9525EE@nightvisions.com>
Message-ID: <000401c04bf0$71135320$f90b9ad8@michelef>

Thanks Bekah,

It was the large "A," that was messing it up.  Now it is working fine.  For
whatever reason, NS still ignores the a:active in the stylesheet and makes
it red, but I just added the alink in the body tag and it is fine.  I had
deleted all of the links in the body tag trying to sort this out.

Thanks again,

Michele

> > Style sheet,
> >
> > A,a.light:link {text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; color:
> > #FFFF99; background: #9999CC;}
> (snip)
>
> Try taking out the A, from the styles. The browsers should just ignore
> capitulation. As to your red active links, what is specified in the BODY
tag?
>
> -Bekah





From bharoche at usa.net  Sat Nov 11 09:02:49 2000
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sat Nov 11 09:02:49 2000
Subject: [thelist] Anyone here use Onelist/eGroups for their newsletters?
References: <NEBBJHDHOLHCLPJKONBNEEAJCDAA.dulcie@heritagecommunityfdn.org>
Message-ID: <00b401c04bf0$8592d280$5a96ccd1@desktop>

> The E-Groups list we had proved to be too confusing for our audience.

The egroups sign up is confusing because they provide you a sign up form
code to place on your page, but submitting that form only sends the user to
the home page of your egroups where they again have to sign up (this time
for real).  A work around is to use your own sign up form which calls a mail
form script which sends a blank email to: your_egroup-subscribe at egroups.com.
That makes unnecessary the user having to visit the egroups site altogether.

> people tend to complain about the ads included with every mail-out.

You can have them removed for $60/year.

All in all, egroups has been okay for me.  But forget about trying to ever
speak with a real person there.  It's one more  web business that thinks
it's so great it doesn't need anything more than an appearance of customer
support -- even for their paying customers.  The one time I really had to
speak to a human, I had to do a whois lookup for Yahoo, their parent
company, call them and then work my way through their bureaucracy to reach
an egroups person.




From bharoche at usa.net  Sat Nov 11 09:06:15 2000
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sat Nov 11 09:06:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] htaccess and subdirectories
References: <3A0CCFE9.5E93E7D5@csi1st.net>
Message-ID: <00c401c04bf1$00808c80$5a96ccd1@desktop>

If you're trying to access a protected directory, add a trailing slash to
the end of your URL.  So...

www.mydomain.com/protected

will trigger the uid/pw  dialogue box twice

but

www.mydomain.com/protected/

will trigger it only once.

There's a technical reason why this is, but I forget it.

HTH.





From peter at vardus.com  Sat Nov 11 09:59:29 2000
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Sat Nov 11 09:59:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] spammers
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001111230631.00aa6b00@mail.paradise.net.nz>
References: <01b001c03a19$44214b80$a17ffea9@athlon800>
 <3.0.6.32.20001019201604.007a8790@pop.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20001111155913.027f4e70@smtp.vardus.net>

http://www.monkeys.com/wpoison/why.html
anyone ever used this? It generates fake pages full of fake emails for the 
spam harvest robots. I just wonder will it trap search engine robots and if 
so will I be punished for that?
Peter




From dan at freelancers.net  Sat Nov 11 11:29:05 2000
From: dan at freelancers.net (Dan Winchester)
Date: Sat Nov 11 11:29:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] Sendmail and Perl mystery
Message-ID: <NEBBIMBEMLJHDDKKMABIGENEEKAA.dan@freelancers.net>

Hi,

I have written a forum which takes mail delivered to sendmail and pipes
it into a perl script which drops the contents into a database for later
distribution.

The script seems to be executing from start to finish with no problems,
but then it leaves an instance of perl running. Eventually I get tens of
instances running, which I have to kill off manually. I'm piping other
mails into scripts without this happening.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Or does anyone have any
tips on where to start looking for the cause? I'm not overly experienced
in this area so feel free to be patronising.

Suggestions much appreciated.

Here is the script:
http://www.ukshopsearch.com/script.txt

BTW, OS is Redhate Linux 6.2.

Cheers
Dan
Freelancers.net




From bekah at nightvisions.com  Sat Nov 11 11:35:51 2000
From: bekah at nightvisions.com (Rebekah Murphy)
Date: Sat Nov 11 11:35:51 2000
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS/Font size/MAC IE 5.0
References: <B63176AC.14CC%mark@wechsler.com>
Message-ID: <3A0D838E.8D47BA3E@nightvisions.com>

Mark Green wrote:
> 
> If you set the font size to pixels rather than points (Xpx vs Xpt), it
> should prevent it from resizing in Mac IE 5.0. Not that I think you should
> do that very often...

Nope, it is a feature, not a bug, of Mac IE 5 that ALL text is
resizable. It does not matter how the styles are defined. You have two
choices: 1) make every bit of text on your page an image (yuck) or 2)
relax and let users with bad eyesight make the text large enough to
read. What's worse, having a site that looks exactly as you imagined it
but is completely illegible, or having the design modified slightly by
the end user so that they can see the content?

-Bekah



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Sat Nov 11 12:58:35 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Nov 11 12:58:35 2000
Subject: [thelist] spammers
References: <01b001c03a19$44214b80$a17ffea9@athlon800><3.0.6.32.20001019201604.007a8790@pop.xs4all.nl> <4.3.2.20001111155913.027f4e70@smtp.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <002d01c04c11$64bf7d80$647b5acf@mwardenlaptop>

from their site:


"The first problem was the potentially bad effects that Wpoison might have on
legitimate web crawlers, such as those used by the major web search engine
companies, and the related secondary negative effects which those primary
negative effects might have on any Wpoison user site which had high hopes of
being well and truly cataloged by the major search engine companies.

This problem was trivially eliminated by including code in Wpoison which
causes each Wpoison-generated randomized web page to carry a clear indication
(for the benefit of legitimate web crawlers) that the page in question should
not be cataloged in any way. Basically, Wpoison now merely makes proper use of
the (pre-existing) Robot Exclusion Protocol. Use of this protocol (and the
associated ``off limits'' markers) within all web pages generated by Wpoison
serves to insure both that (a) legitimate[1] web crawlers will not get all
caught up in repeatedly reading thousands (or millions) of randomized garbage
pages generated by Wpoison and that (b) the legitimate search engine companies
will still be able to successfully add your web site to their data bases.

....

[footnotes]

[1] ... Legitimate web crawlers, such as those used by the major search engine
companies do always obey the standardized and widely accepted Robot Exclusion
Protocol, and they take its use, on any given web page, as a clear and
unambiguous ``keep out'' sign. Spammers who are trawling for e-mail address on
the other hand have no incentive whatsoever to skip any web pages that might
contain valuable fresh e-mail addresses ... In fact it is this reckless
behavior that Wpoison relies upon...

It should be noted however that since the development of the first
publically-released version of Wpoison, spammers have been starting to catch
on to the fact that their own stupidity and greediness in reading all web
pages, even when they have been warned off, was in fact causing them more harm
than good. Because of this the author of Wpoison now believes that many (and
perhaps even a majority) of the spammer's address harvesting web crawlers have
now been reprogrammed so that they now do obey the standard Robot Exclusion
Protocol...

The author of Wpoison nowadays strongly advises (to all who will listen) that
all web pages containing real e-mail addresses should in fact be marked as
being ``off limits'' via the standard Robot Exclusion Protocol, both now and
into the forseeable future."

hth,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Van Dijck <peter at vardus.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 10:59 AM
Subject: [thelist] spammers


> http://www.monkeys.com/wpoison/why.html
> anyone ever used this? It generates fake pages full of fake emails for the
> spam harvest robots. I just wonder will it trap search engine robots and if
> so will I be punished for that?
> Peter
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From framar at interlog.com  Sat Nov 11 20:14:18 2000
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Sat Nov 11 20:14:18 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF: Style or Spec?
Message-ID: <p05001905b633ac52fc49@[24.43.66.191]>

I've been looking at other people's work, and I often see something like this:

	<cfif #this# EQ #that#>

whereas I have a tendency to use

	<cfif this EQ that>

It's been my experience that a value within a tag is generally 
evaluated, even without the use of pound signs. I tend to omit the 
pound signs to favour legibility. Which of the two are a better 
style? Are there definite advantages to including the pounds? Does 
not/including the pounds a violation of spec?

Thanks.
-- 

Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com



From rob at bigbang.net.au  Sat Nov 11 22:38:15 2000
From: rob at bigbang.net.au (Rob Keniger)
Date: Sat Nov 11 22:38:15 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF: Style or Spec?
In-Reply-To: <p05001905b633ac52fc49@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <B6345BE0.F260%rob@bigbang.net.au>

on 11/12/00 12:14 PM, Frank at framar at interlog.com wrote:

> It's been my experience that a value within a tag is generally
> evaluated, even without the use of pound signs. I tend to omit the
> pound signs to favour legibility. Which of the two are a better
> style? Are there definite advantages to including the pounds? Does
> not/including the pounds a violation of spec?

Including the pound signs is old syntax but still valid. Allaire now
recommends you NOT use the pound signs within CF tag statements. There is a
knowledgebase article to this effect on their site.

-- 

Rob Keniger

big bang solutions

<mailto:rob at bigbang.net.au>
<http://www.bigbang.net.au>




From lisa at koolfish.com  Sun Nov 12 04:30:14 2000
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Bartholomew)
Date: Sun Nov 12 04:30:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] re-table cell alignment problem
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAMEKKCBAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Thanks for the suggestions. I still keep hitting those little snags with the
more sites I get to do.
Lisa

<tip "type=microsoft access 2000">
Keyboard shortcut:
If you need to paste the value in a single field to the next record while
you are entering data, you can quickly copy the value from the corresponding
field in the previous record to the new record by pressing CTRL + '
(apostrophe)
</tip>




From ronwhite at lists.evolt.org  Sun Nov 12 08:26:09 2000
From: ronwhite at lists.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Sun Nov 12 08:26:09 2000
Subject: [thelist] spammers
In-Reply-To: <002d01c04c11$64bf7d80$647b5acf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <MABBJACNCFDNLLAFJNJBAEKPCAAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

<snip>
on any given web page, as a clear and unambiguous ``keep out'' sign.
</snip>

What is the proper meta tag for this?

Ron



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 12 12:19:35 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 12 12:19:35 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112121308.020feeb0@redhotsweeps.com>

I need to search through 2 sql tables and fine 1 entry that is missing.  I 
know how to compare the two tables together where they match, but how can I 
get where they don't?

Here is the sql for what I know how to do.
select bonus_plays.user_id, lottouser.id
from bonus_plays, lottouser
where bonus_plays.user_id = lottouser.id

All I need to do is find the 1 row that is missing from the bonus_plays 
table.  Can anyone help?

Thanks

Chris




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Sun Nov 12 14:13:21 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sun Nov 12 14:13:21 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112121308.020feeb0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <006301c04ce4$e7bdbd40$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop>

Chris, I always screw up the syntax for outer joins, but I'll give it a
shot...

> Here is the sql for what I know how to do.
> select bonus_plays.user_id, lottouser.id
> from bonus_plays, lottouser
> where bonus_plays.user_id = lottouser.id
>
> All I need to do is find the 1 row that is missing from the bonus_plays
> table.  Can anyone help?

select bonus_plays.user_id
from lottouser right join bonus_plays on bonus_plays.user_id = lottouser.id
where lottouser.id is null

Also, note that I got rid of the second column you were returning since, by
declaration, bonus_plays.user_ID has to be the same as lottouser.id (except
where they don't match, which is why i chose to return bonus_plays.user_id).

In the even that I did get the syntax wrong, I was attempting to include all
rows from bonus_plays matched up to all the rows in lottouser. Where there is
not a matching row in lottouser, the returned column(s) will be NULL. So, to
find the unmatched column, you must put in a where clause that searches for a
null column in the matched table.

Hopefully the real DB gurus will only be one or two into their Sunday brews if
what I suggested fails.

hth a bit,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Nov 12 15:20:47 2000
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Nov 12 15:20:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
Message-ID: <01c04cee$891ed300$8f46149a@default>

> Hopefully the real DB gurus will only be one or two into
> their Sunday brews if what I suggested fails.


i usualyy stop countng after three (hic) when the nfl is on

;o)

chris, matt's way does work -- use an outer join and check for null

here's your original join query, using A and B as table names so that they
stand out a bit more --

   select A.user_id, B.id
      from A, B
      where A.user_id = B.id

your question was to find the row that's missing from A

matt's suggestion was

  select A.user_id
      from B right join A
        on A.user_id = B.id
    where B.id is null

matt is definitely on the right track, he just got the tables backwards
;o)

if you want to find the row that's missing from A, you need to return the
key from B that doesn't match any row from A, in other words you have to
return the B.id field

as to whether you should say "A left join B" or "B right join A" this
depends on which table you want "all the rows" from

by definition, an outer join gets all the rows from one table, plus any
matching rows from the other table, with nulls in the columns where no
matching row was found

therefore if you are looking for rows of B that don't have matching rows of
A -- which was your original question, chris -- then you need "B left join
A"

notice that it is the left or right "direction" which "points at" the table
that you want "all the rows" from

so you can also say "A right join B" which is the same as "B left join
A" -- get it?


anyhow, there is an even better way   ;o)

chris wanted *only the missing* rows, so a NOT EXISTS query is perfect

  select id
     from B
    where
       NOT EXISTS
         (select 1 from A
            where userid = B.id)

the nice part about the NOT EXISTS syntax is that it is easier to
understand -- what is *not * required is isolated -- whereas the full outer
join with null check is more, um, subtle as to what you are really after

also, the database optimizer can do stuff like look in an index and see a
record id and therefore *not retrieve* the actual row -- so NOT EXISTS
syntax executes better



the west coast games should be well into the first quarter, so we now
return you to your regularly scheduled beer...


rudy




From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Sun Nov 12 16:00:00 2000
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Sun Nov 12 16:00:00 2000
Subject: [thelist] hard won vector art tip...
Message-ID: <80256995.0078AED0.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

John

This is only true for Windows
<tip type='Windows screen res incompatibility'>
MS can't read standards. They 'misread' standard screen res as 96dpi,
not 72dpi, and accordingly ensured that Windows fonts are always too
big (relative to standard). This is why many (designed on Windows) sites
are unreadable on (standards-compliant) Macs.

If only the [em] measurement worked in css...
</tip>

Cheers
Martin



Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org
To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] hard won vector art tip...



When exporting from Illustrator 9 to .swf, the default ppi is 72. This seems
good, considering all of the years of '72 dpi for the web' we've all
endured. Problem is, that's not always true screen res. Mine is 96dpi. This
makes things not line up quite right after the export. Specifically, I had
all of this type within a path. It looked great in Illustrator, but when
exported to Flash, the type overran its boundaries and ran all over itself.
Solution: export at true screen res, 96dpi.



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.





From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 12 17:18:14 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 12 17:18:14 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
In-Reply-To: <01c04cee$891ed300$8f46149a@default>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112165913.00ab9d20@redhotsweeps.com>

Thanks Rudy.  Guess you might have had one to many beers.  :^)

Got the following error.
select id
from lottouser
where
NOT EXISTS
(select user_id from bonus_plays
where user_id = lottouser.id)

MySQL said: You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'EXISTS (select 
user_id from bonus_plays where user_id = l' at line 4

Any tips?

Thanks Chris


At 03:21 PM 11/12/00, you wrote:
> > Hopefully the real DB gurus will only be one or two into
> > their Sunday brews if what I suggested fails.
>
>
>i usualyy stop countng after three (hic) when the nfl is on
>
>;o)
>
>chris, matt's way does work -- use an outer join and check for null
>
>here's your original join query, using A and B as table names so that they
>stand out a bit more --
>
>    select A.user_id, B.id
>       from A, B
>       where A.user_id = B.id
>
>your question was to find the row that's missing from A
>
>matt's suggestion was
>
>   select A.user_id
>       from B right join A
>         on A.user_id = B.id
>     where B.id is null
>
>matt is definitely on the right track, he just got the tables backwards
>;o)
>
>if you want to find the row that's missing from A, you need to return the
>key from B that doesn't match any row from A, in other words you have to
>return the B.id field
>
>as to whether you should say "A left join B" or "B right join A" this
>depends on which table you want "all the rows" from
>
>by definition, an outer join gets all the rows from one table, plus any
>matching rows from the other table, with nulls in the columns where no
>matching row was found
>
>therefore if you are looking for rows of B that don't have matching rows of
>A -- which was your original question, chris -- then you need "B left join
>A"
>
>notice that it is the left or right "direction" which "points at" the table
>that you want "all the rows" from
>
>so you can also say "A right join B" which is the same as "B left join
>A" -- get it?
>
>
>anyhow, there is an even better way   ;o)
>
>chris wanted *only the missing* rows, so a NOT EXISTS query is perfect
>
>   select id
>      from B
>     where
>        NOT EXISTS
>          (select 1 from A
>             where userid = B.id)
>
>the nice part about the NOT EXISTS syntax is that it is easier to
>understand -- what is *not * required is isolated -- whereas the full outer
>join with null check is more, um, subtle as to what you are really after
>
>also, the database optimizer can do stuff like look in an index and see a
>record id and therefore *not retrieve* the actual row -- so NOT EXISTS
>syntax executes better
>
>
>
>the west coast games should be well into the first quarter, so we now
>return you to your regularly scheduled beer...
>
>
>rudy
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Nov 12 17:30:35 2000
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Nov 12 17:30:35 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
Message-ID: <01c04d00$90506320$3e42149a@default>

> MySQL said: You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'EXISTS >
>
> Any tips?


um, get a real database?

sorry, couldn't resist   ;o)


mysql doesn't do subqueries

hey, don't blame me



use the outer join, testing for nulls


rudy




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 12 18:03:03 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 12 18:03:03 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
In-Reply-To: <01c04d00$90506320$3e42149a@default>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112174228.036435f0@redhotsweeps.com>

I'll gladly get a real database if you will donate to the cause.  ;^)

Thanks for the help though.  Have a beer on me.

Chris

At 05:30 PM 11/12/00, you wrote:

> > MySQL said: You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'EXISTS >
> >
> > Any tips?
>
>
>um, get a real database?
>
>sorry, couldn't resist   ;o)
>
>
>mysql doesn't do subqueries
>
>hey, don't blame me
>
>
>
>use the outer join, testing for nulls
>
>
>rudy
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Nov 12 20:53:05 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Sun Nov 12 20:53:05 2000
Subject: [thelist] CF: Style or Spec?
In-Reply-To: <p05001905b633ac52fc49@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAEBJDHAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Frank
:
: I've been looking at other people's work, and I
: often see something like this:
:
: 	<cfif #this# EQ #that#>
:
: whereas I have a tendency to use
:
: 	<cfif this EQ that>
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the second method is the correct method and by far the easiest to read.
while it seems generally true that you don't have to hash cf variables when
they're used within cf tags, this is not always the case.  the exception is
when the attribute of a tag is expecting a string, number, or list and
you're passing that in with a variable.  in order for it to evaluate it to
the variables value you'd have to hash it up.  on the contrary, the rule
holds fast all the time with <cfif>, <cfelseif>, and <cfset>.  all the rest
of the tags are a toss-up.  you're best figuring out what each tag is
expecting and committing that to memory.

fwiw, omitting the double-quotes from around a cf tags attribute value will
not automatically make the cf server parse it as a variable.  for example,
the code below may not look identical, but it will be executed by the server
in exactly the same fashion.

<cfparam name="user" default=StructNew()>

<cfparam name="user" default="StructNew()">

of course the hope when using the above code is that the variable, user,
will be initialized as a structure.  however, it will actually get
initialized with the string "StructNew()" as it's value.  the proper way,
and the only way to get it to work, is to wrap the cf function in hashes.

<cfparam name="user" default="#StructNew()#">

another example where hashes are necessary

<cfloop from="1" to="#ListLen('a','b','c','d','e','f','h','i')#" index="i">

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: It's been my experience that a value within a tag is
: generally evaluated, even without the use of pound
: signs. I tend to omit the pound signs to favour legibility.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

proper use is to omit hashes where not necessary.  be careful where you omit
them though.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Which of the two are a better style?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

better style (and the correct style) is to omit hashes.  it also shows that
you're a more experienced cf programmer and understand the parser's
requirements.  newbies will generally hash up everything.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Are there definite advantages to including the pounds?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

only where they're absolutely necessary.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Does not/including the pounds a violation of spec?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

no, if anything i think the cf server will get more particular about syntax
in the future.

hope this helps,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From bmonchka at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 12 21:24:45 2000
From: bmonchka at hotmail.com (Barret A Monchka)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:24:45 2000
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat .pdf
Message-ID: <F170lUohIi6YEFmsQSk000006c9@hotmail.com>

Hello,

   I need to have an Adobe Acrobat .pdf file available on my web site.  My 
web site is opened in its own window with its very own dimensions and I do 
not want the file to be loaded in that window.  Is there any way I could 
make this file only available to download, and not available to be viewed 
online? Or could I make sure that the file is loaded in it's very own 
window.

TIA,

Barret
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




From jayfitz at bayou.com  Sun Nov 12 21:28:23 2000
From: jayfitz at bayou.com (Jay Fitzgerald)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:28:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
Message-ID: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com>

Does anyone know how to have two seperate onLoad events for two seperate
scripts?




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Sun Nov 12 21:32:07 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:32:07 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
References: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com>
Message-ID: <016c01c04d22$1e59c3c0$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop>

do you mean:

<body ... onLoad="function1();function2();">

?

If so, the number is limited only to the client's memory.

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay Fitzgerald <jayfitz at bayou.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:25 PM
Subject: [thelist] onLoad


> Does anyone know how to have two seperate onLoad events for two seperate
> scripts?
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com  Sun Nov 12 21:34:23 2000
From: mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com (Matthew Fischer)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:34:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
In-Reply-To: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com>
Message-ID: <20001112223453-r01010600-cd24415c@24.18.139.115>

Just seperate them with a semi-colon:

<body onLoad="event1();event2()">


On 11/12/00 at 9:25 PM, jayfitz at bayou.com (Jay Fitzgerald) wrote:

> Does anyone know how to have two seperate onLoad events for two seperate
> scripts?
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
--

Matt Fischer || e-fish solutions, inc      (e)   \\\\\__   o  
   <mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com>           (e) /    o  \ o
  <http://www.e-fishsolutions.com>           (e)    ((  <
    877.WEB.FISH || 203.272.2987            (e) \+_+_+_/
           Fax 800.203.5816                (e)     \|/




From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 12 21:34:29 2000
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (Lon.Kraemer)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:34:29 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
References: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com>
Message-ID: <002701c04d23$58b93220$c57d1d26@lonnie>

separate functions with a semi-colon.

onload="firstfunction();secondfunction()"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay Fitzgerald <jayfitz at bayou.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:25 PM
Subject: [thelist] onLoad


> Does anyone know how to have two seperate onLoad events for two seperate
> scripts?
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From jayfitz at bayou.com  Sun Nov 12 21:38:44 2000
From: jayfitz at bayou.com (Jay Fitzgerald)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:38:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
References: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com> <016c01c04d22$1e59c3c0$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <3A0F61AA.A93BE07D@bayou.com>

this is what i have so far...

<BODY ..... onLoad="preloadImages ('images/on.gif' ,
'images/on2.gif');">
this is for my image rollovers

but I also neet to add

"init()"

which will also initialize two external .js files






From mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com  Sun Nov 12 21:40:28 2000
From: mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com (Matthew Fischer)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:40:28 2000
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat .pdf
In-Reply-To: <F170lUohIi6YEFmsQSk000006c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20001112224103-r01010600-b84738ac@24.18.139.115>

Add a target to the link:

   <a href="myfile.pdf" target="_blank"> 

or use javascript and make a new window:

   <a href="javascript:window.open('myfile.pdf','mypdf','width=750,height=525,scrollbars=yes')">

or whatever other parameters you want.


On 11/12/00 at 9:25 PM, bmonchka at hotmail.com (Barret A Monchka) wrote:

> Hello,
> 
>    I need to have an Adobe Acrobat .pdf file available on my web site.  My 
> web site is opened in its own window with its very own dimensions and I do 
> not want the file to be loaded in that window.  Is there any way I could 
> make this file only available to download, and not available to be viewed 
> online? Or could I make sure that the file is loaded in it's very own 
> window.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Barret


--

Matt Fischer || e-fish solutions, inc      (e)   \\\\\__   o  
   <mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com>           (e) /    o  \ o
  <http://www.e-fishsolutions.com>           (e)    ((  <
    877.WEB.FISH || 203.272.2987            (e) \+_+_+_/
           Fax 800.203.5816                (e)     \|/




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Nov 12 21:45:44 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:45:44 2000
Subject: [thelist] Acrobat .pdf
In-Reply-To: <F170lUohIi6YEFmsQSk000006c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAEBLDHAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

barret,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Barret A Monchka
: 
: Is there any way I could make this file only 
: available to download, and not available to be
: viewed  online? Or could I make sure that the
: file is loaded in it's very own window.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sure, just include a target attribute in your <a> tag.

<a href="mydoc.pdf" target="_blank">pdf</a>

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Sun Nov 12 21:48:08 2000
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:48:08 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
References: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com> <016c01c04d22$1e59c3c0$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop> <3A0F61AA.A93BE07D@bayou.com>
Message-ID: <017c01c04d24$5cffc000$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop>

<BODY ..... onLoad="preloadImages('images/on.gif','images/on2.gif');init();">


if you get errors, try:

<BODY ..... onLoad="init();preloadImages('images/on.gif','images/on2.gif');">


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay Fitzgerald <jayfitz at bayou.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] onLoad


> this is what i have so far...
> 
> <BODY ..... onLoad="preloadImages ('images/on.gif' ,
> 'images/on2.gif');">
> this is for my image rollovers
> 
> but I also neet to add
> 
> "init()"
> 
> which will also initialize two external .js files
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com  Sun Nov 12 21:52:59 2000
From: mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com (Matthew Fischer)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:52:59 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
In-Reply-To: <3A0F61AA.A93BE07D@bayou.com>
Message-ID: <20001112225334-r01010600-f8a212e0@24.18.139.115>

<BODY ..... onLoad="preloadImages('images/on.gif','images/on2.gif');init();">

or

<BODY ..... onLoad="init();preloadImages('images/on.gif','images/on2.gif')">

Depending on which one you want to fire first.


On 11/12/00 at 9:36 PM, jayfitz at bayou.com (Jay Fitzgerald) wrote:

> this is what i have so far...
> 
> <BODY ..... onLoad="preloadImages ('images/on.gif' ,
> 'images/on2.gif');">
> this is for my image rollovers
> 
> but I also neet to add
> 
> "init()"
> 
> which will also initialize two external .js files
> 

--

Matt Fischer || e-fish solutions, inc      (e)   \\\\\__   o  
   <mfischer at e-fishsolutions.com>           (e) /    o  \ o
  <http://www.e-fishsolutions.com>           (e)    ((  <
    877.WEB.FISH || 203.272.2987            (e) \+_+_+_/
           Fax 800.203.5816                (e)     \|/




From jayfitz at bayou.com  Sun Nov 12 21:56:47 2000
From: jayfitz at bayou.com (Jay Fitzgerald)
Date: Sun Nov 12 21:56:47 2000
Subject: [thelist] onLoad
References: <3A0F5F3C.DE79A07E@bayou.com> <016c01c04d22$1e59c3c0$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop> <3A0F61AA.A93BE07D@bayou.com> <017c01c04d24$5cffc000$9aee00cf@mwardenlaptop>
Message-ID: <3A0F65E6.DF3D18DE@bayou.com>

tks....the first one worked fine....both in IE and NN....




From michele at inthree.com  Sun Nov 12 22:13:23 2000
From: michele at inthree.com (Michele Wandrei)
Date: Sun Nov 12 22:13:23 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112121308.020feeb0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <009401c04d28$05e68d40$11330d18@roalok1.mi.home.com>

This is what works for me (using your table names):

SELECT lottouser.id, bonus_plays.user_id
FROM lottouser
LEFT JOIN bonus_plays ON lottouser.id = bonus_plays.user_id
WHERE bonus_plays.user_id IS NULL

Hope this helps.
___________________________________________________
Michele Wandrei
inThree Design
www.inthree.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "CDitty" <mail at redhotsweeps.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help


> I need to search through 2 sql tables and fine 1 entry that is
missing.  I
> know how to compare the two tables together where they match,
but how can I
> get where they don't?
>
> Here is the sql for what I know how to do.
> select bonus_plays.user_id, lottouser.id
> from bonus_plays, lottouser
> where bonus_plays.user_id = lottouser.id
>
> All I need to do is find the 1 row that is missing from the
bonus_plays
> table.  Can anyone help?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Nov 12 22:37:10 2000
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Nov 12 22:37:10 2000
Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
In-Reply-To: <009401c04d28$05e68d40$11330d18@roalok1.mi.home.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112121308.020feeb0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001112223306.02066480@redhotsweeps.com>

Thanks.  That found the missing record.

BIG THANKS

Chris

At 10:13 PM 11/12/00, you wrote:
>This is what works for me (using your table names):
>
>SELECT lottouser.id, bonus_plays.user_id
>FROM lottouser
>LEFT JOIN bonus_plays ON lottouser.id = bonus_plays.user_id
>WHERE bonus_plays.user_id IS NULL
>
>Hope this helps.
>___________________________________________________
>Michele Wandrei
>inThree Design
>www.inthree.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "CDitty" <mail at redhotsweeps.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 1:16 PM
>Subject: [thelist] SQL command help
>
>
> > I need to search through 2 sql tables and fine 1 entry that is
>missing.  I
> > know how to compare the two tables together where they match,
>but how can I
> > get where they don't?
> >
> > Here is the sql for what I know how to do.
> > select bonus_plays.user_id, lottouser.id
> > from bonus_plays, lottouser
> > where bonus_plays.user_id = lottouser.id
> >
> > All I need to do is find the 1 row that is missing from the
>bonus_plays
> > table.  Can anyone help?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Sun Nov 12 23:25:26 2000
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Sun Nov 12 23:25:26 2000
Subject: [thelist] hard won vector art tip...
In-Reply-To: <80256995.0078AED0.00@uk-emamta003.ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIKHMNKANLGEBLMLBMEAPDOAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>

> This is only true for Windows
> <tip type='Windows screen res incompatibility'>
> MS can't read standards. They 'misread' standard screen res as 96dpi,
> not 72dpi, and accordingly ensured that Windows fonts are always too
> big (relative to standard). This is why many (designed on Windows) sites
> are unreadable on (standards-compliant) Macs.

Martin,

To what standard are you referring? Will it still be a "standard" to you
when your precious Apple starts to license 300dpi display technology for
purposes of crisp on-screen text (likely to be very valuable for print
designers I'm sure)?

We've talked about this before WRT Microsoft's release of IE5 for Mac OS,
and their using 96dpi as the default setting for rendering of text. Here's
my response then (and now):

---
Both PC and Mac rely on stupid assumptions here - that their displays are
running at 96 and 72 DPI respectively. AFAIK, neither asks the display
subsystem how many DPI it is currently showing and renders accordingly.
Incidentally, from what I've read, there are Matrox cards that allow the
user to specify a DPI. Why not give users a choice in the browser too? So,
by *default* IE5/Mac allows more people to  view more sites as they were
indended. Not "all", but "more". Sure, it might screw up people who serve
Mac-specific stylesheets, but that'd hardly be a majority...

IE5/Mac also allows you to specify whether you want to go by 96 or 72 DPI,
so if you're bitter (obviously), and like your small Mac fonts, and mostly
unreadable sites, then change away.

To recap: they've implemented a "safety" default of 96 DPI so that more
sites than ever are immediately readable on the Mac, and they're also
allowing anyone to change the sizing, whether for reasons of personal
preference, or to simply read a specific page.Yet, you've been complaining
for months, and continue to do so.

It's interesting to note that Netscape are also adopting 96 DPI as default.
Here's a quote from Netscape's Mike Pinkerton: "We`re rendering at 96dpi
instead of the old 72 to match the web "standard" which is win32. IE5Mac is
doing this as well."

And I believe that Mozilla on Unix has a default value of 96 DPI too
---

If SCSI became accepted as a "standard", should no one develop USB, USB2,
Firewire, etc? Hey, let's go back to dirt tracks instead of bitumen -
forever.

John's advice, perhaps with an alteration, is still sensible:

"for best viewing for the majority of a general audience, export from
Illustrator to SWF at 96dpi."

That is, if you have a general audience, and hope to give the majority the
best viewing experience you can provide, export with Windows users in mind.

Note the quote from Mike Pinkerton, whose "-ing of "standard" suggests that
there are no official standards with which to comply. So, the best bet is to
go with the "web standard" of 96dpi.


IBM ships first 22" 200dpi displays
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/11/11/1457202&mode=flat


Have fun with your 72dpi...


isaac