From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 01:24:47 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 01:24:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Resloution Detection.
Message-ID: <LAW2-F134Hz7N4QkXLj00010d4e@hotmail.com>

><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JAVASCRIPT">
>document.write("This browser version is " + navigator.appVersion)
>document.write(" of <B>" + navigator.appName + "</B>. ")
>
>// browser test:
>browserName = navigator.appName;
>browserVer = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);

Don't do a browser detect, it's not necessary. Instead do

if (self.innerWidth)
{
	frameWidth = self.innerWidth;
	frameHeight = self.innerHeight;
}
else if (document.body)
{
	frameWidth = document.body.clientWidth;
	frameHeight = document.body.clientHeight;
}

Now frameWidth and -Height contain the width and height of the frame or 
window. No need for complicated browser detect stuff or Java.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From evolt at befrance.com  Mon May 21 03:49:08 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Mon May 21 03:49:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Resloution Detection.
References: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPCEOACAAA.navindhanuka@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004901c0e1d2$c7043f60$3601a8c0@tatooine>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Navin Dhanuka" <navindhanuka at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:46 PM
Subject: [thelist] Screen Resloution Detection.


> I made Vapson.com in 800x600 resolution, but my client was using 1024x768,
> while most of his target customers use 600x400.
> We finally decided to make the site for all the versions. (We are working
on
> the new layout.)
> Is there any other way to cope up with the resolution difference problem.

Geez, making different versions for different resolutions seems like a big
waste of time to me.
There are 2 ways of making a design for a website : either you make it
unresizable, either you make it - resizable.
It's no big deal to view a site made for 640*480 when your screen res is
1280*1024... you'd better make it work anyways for 640*480.
AND if you can make it resizable, it's even better. It just implies that you
don't use too many pictures or photographs for the layout.

My 2 cents

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266




From tcostelloe at insur-e.net  Mon May 21 03:52:08 2001
From: tcostelloe at insur-e.net (Tarrant Costelloe)
Date: Mon May 21 03:52:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] UK based Hosting?
Message-ID: <B8DC55700B11DA4F8AA61B2803F3D1A805C4D2@insure-ems.insur-e.net>

Can anyone recommend a good/cheap uk based, PHP host? I say cheap as I am
going to be needing about 500mg's of space for my current site
(httpp://planet-tolkien.com) hosted with uk2.net.



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Mon May 21 04:02:32 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon May 21 04:02:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] UK based Hosting?
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA22@BOOTROS>

http://www.magic-moments.com/ and http://www.zenithtech.com/ are two I
haven't had any trouble with. I have no idea how much they charge for 500
megs, though. 

Cheers
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Tarrant Costelloe [mailto:tcostelloe at insur-e.net]
Sent: 21 May 2001 09:52
To: Thelist (E-mail)
Subject: [thelist] UK based Hosting?


Can anyone recommend a good/cheap uk based, PHP host? I say cheap as I am
going to be needing about 500mg's of space for my current site
(httpp://planet-tolkien.com) hosted with uk2.net.


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Mon May 21 06:44:33 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Mon May 21 06:44:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103D8@usnapsmail.asg.com>

I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.

I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".

Know what I mean?

Can anyone point me to a script for that?

THanks,

DM



From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon May 21 07:01:29 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon May 21 07:01:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
In-Reply-To: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103D8@usnapsmail.asg.com>
Message-ID: <3B08CA86.24100.352A39A8@localhost>

> From: Don Makoviney <DonM at allensysgroup.com>
>
> I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
> 
> I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page",
> but I only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".

closes the window as well?  i'd suggest you check out porn sites... 
they've got all sorts of window opening scripts that happen on 
nearly any event you can think of...



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 07:10:29 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 07:10:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <LAW2-F128Je5KuJmOTH0001143e@hotmail.com>

>I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
>
>I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
>only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
>
>Know what I mean?

In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new page 
is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not allowed to 
read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of the new page.

So: this is impossible.

ppk


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Mon May 21 07:15:04 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Mon May 21 07:15:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103DA@usnapsmail.asg.com>

Actually, it is not impossible. Go over to fortune.com. . . .view an
article. . . .then try and go to another site, like Yahoo or something. At
that point the site determines that you are leaving and instantiates a
pop-up window.

Any ideas? I am thinking that using ASP I can check the new domain or IP out
and see if it matches my IP. If not, then do an onunload popup.

Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

DM

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter-Paul Koch [mailto:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:11 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.



>I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
>
>I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
>only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
>
>Know what I mean?

In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new page 
is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not allowed to 
read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of the new page.

So: this is impossible.

ppk


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Mon May 21 07:20:04 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Mon May 21 07:20:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F128Je5KuJmOTH0001143e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522071110.00af37f0@redhotsweeps.com>

Not impossible, per say....You could add some JS code to each link that 
leaves your site that will call you JS popup function.  That is the only 
way I can see it done.  Talk about a real pain in the a** if you have a lot 
of external links.  Ouch.

Another way would be to open a frame.   Have the top frame be 1 pixel 
high.  And just do 1 popup onload.   Just a thought.

Chris

<tip - Movie>
Ok, not really a tip, but it's the best thing I can think of this early.

Go see Shrek.  It was FUNNY.  Worth every penny.  Not really for
kids but nothing that would really embarrass the parents.
</tip>

At 07:10 AM 5/21/2001, you wrote:

>>I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
>>
>>I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
>>only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
>>
>>Know what I mean?
>
>In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new 
>page is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not allowed 
>to read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of the new page.
>
>So: this is impossible.
>
>ppk




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon May 21 07:27:04 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon May 21 07:27:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Folder Upload
In-Reply-To: <044b01c0e17b$2aaf9170$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIOECAIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> > I'm at a loss here. Can anyone please help me. What I need, again, is
> > to *upload an entire directory*.
>
> If you want to upload an entire directory field html, you are
> going to have
> to hand specify each and every file to upload, or some up with some
> mechanism to make the http requests by hand based on a directory listing.
> You could write your own program to do it, use an FTP client (that's what
> they are designed to do) or just browse to each file individually
> and submit
> a form.

A few years back I used signed scripts in Netscape Communicator to allow for
drag/drop uploads of files and folders. It worked great, but it took me
months to get it to work because of a <insert extreme curse> bug in how the
browser handled signed scripts. (This is when I began to hate Netscape. The
sad part is that the company I worked for had done quite of bit of dev. work
for Netscape, and even that didn't help us find support.)

Anyway, the point is, if your running this on an intranet with one
particular type of client, you may want to look into signed scripts. I
believe IE has a way of doing stuff like that as well.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 07:52:30 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 07:52:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <009b01c0e091$290be8e0$f4a0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPAEILCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

<tip type="mail settings">
In M$ Outlook (and I would think other mail progs), you can set the default
message type for an address by checking the box on the Contact's property
page that says "Send using Plain Text". That way if your global settings
change, the settings for Evolt will always be Plain Text.
</tip>

Thanks,
Ron White

<snippage>
 I've gotten rejected headers once or twice, usually because my kids
changed the settings (!), and somehow I never saw the need to curse anyone
but myself...
</snippage>





From deike.schulz at getthere.nl  Mon May 21 07:54:34 2001
From: deike.schulz at getthere.nl (deike schulz)
Date: Mon May 21 07:54:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Quicktimemovie into flash 5.0
Message-ID: <CDEBKKHHPPEDKCBCGGADGEEECBAA.deike.schulz@getthere.nl>

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for the best way to integrate a quicktime movie into flash 5.
At the moment I put the movie into a new scene and link it with another one.
It doesn't work so far...I tested it in the preview mode..and I'm not sure
if the loadingtime of the movie stays accetable..Any suggestions or links
for tutorials???

Deike






From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon May 21 07:56:14 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon May 21 07:56:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPAEILCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIECEIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> <tip type="mail settings">
> In M$ Outlook (and I would think other mail progs), you can set
> the default
> message type for an address by checking the box on the Contact's property
> page that says "Send using Plain Text". That way if your global settings
> change, the settings for Evolt will always be Plain Text.
> </tip>

By any wild chance do you know a way to make Outlook _always_ use plain
text, no matter what the message is you're replying
to?

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 07:59:00 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 07:59:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Newbie
In-Reply-To: <002a01c0e0dd$cafac440$3601a8c0@tatooine>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEILCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Welcome to our happy (mostly :) ) family!!

Thanks,
Ron White 





From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Mon May 21 08:07:35 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon May 21 08:07:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA2F@BOOTROS>

> By any wild chance do you know a way to make Outlook _always_ use plain
> text, no matter what the message is you're replying
> to?

For Outlook 2000:
Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down

HTH
Jon


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon May 21 08:09:25 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon May 21 08:09:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA2F@BOOTROS>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIECFIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

>
> For Outlook 2000:
> Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down

Oh, I know about that, but when replying to HTML mail (ick), it defaults to
the format of the message itself, not my preference.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 08:09:50 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 08:09:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIECEIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPEEINCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

No, I've been trying to find out myself off and on for the last two years...
Might actually have to break down and send a message to M$ :-) What I'd
really like is to be able to turn off the automagical rendering of HTML
email... and no I don't want to use a different email program before anyone
pipes up :-) I like 90% of Outlook, so I don't plan to switch...

Thanks,
Ron White

<snippage>
By any wild chance do you know a way to make Outlook _always_ use plain
text, no matter what the message is you're replying to?
</snippage>





From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 08:10:45 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 08:10:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <LAW2-F60HrdZ6VzvdrE0000d16a@hotmail.com>

>Actually, it is not impossible. Go over to fortune.com. . . .view an
>article. . . .then try and go to another site, like Yahoo or something. At 
>that point the site determines that you are leaving and instantiates a 
>pop-up window.

Yes, you're right. However, this is the most complicated code I've ever seen 
(needless lots of objects, just to make it obscure).

The only thing I'm reasonably certain about is that the secret is in 
http://www.timeinc.net/subs/popup2/fortune/popup2.js
especially in the function test(). However, this just refers to a new heap 
of objects and I don't have more time to do research. If you do find out, 
please let me know.

>Any ideas? I am thinking that using ASP I can check the new domain or IP 
>out and see if it matches my IP. If not, then do an onunload popup.

If they leave your site your ASP won't be called so it can't do anything.

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 08:12:00 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 08:12:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA2F@BOOTROS>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEINCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

This only works on NEW messages not REPLIES... It always replies in the same
format as the message you are replying to came in...

Thanks,
Ron White

<snippage type="misleading info">
For Outlook 2000:
Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down
<snippage>





From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Mon May 21 08:22:35 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon May 21 08:22:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA30@BOOTROS>

> >
> > For Outlook 2000:
> > Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down
> 
> Oh, I know about that, but when replying to HTML mail (ick), it defaults
to
> the format of the message itself, not my preference.

Sorry, my bad.

The only way I can see round it is to change it on an individual basis for
every HTML mail you reply to, there doesn't seem to be a "change stupid
people's HTML mail back into a sensible format" tickbox unfortunately :-(

Of course, what I *really* want is a "discard all HTML mail and only show me
plain text" option.

Cheers
Jon





**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From elfur at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 08:25:25 2001
From: elfur at members.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Mon May 21 08:25:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
References: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPEEINCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <137801c0e1f9$7f189e40$40aefea9@DWARFS>

From: "Ron White" <ronwhite at members.evolt.org>


| No, I've been trying to find out myself off and on for the last two
years...
| Might actually have to break down and send a message to M$ :-) What I'd
| really like is to be able to turn off the automagical rendering of HTML
| email... and no I don't want to use a different email program before
anyone
| pipes up :-) I like 90% of Outlook, so I don't plan to switch...

ever tried outlook express?
there you have a lot of outlook things - plus  a checkbox opting to always
send everything in plain text - no matter how the mail was formatted.

elfur
*the icelandic one*




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon May 21 08:30:45 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon May 21 08:30:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
References: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEINCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <004a01c0e1fa$58a8b960$6e0f9ad8@mef>

I too haven't found a way to get around this problem.

The only thing I can suggest is that when replying to an HTML'ized mail,
choose format and change it to Plain Text at that time.

I haven't received an HTML mail worth replying too in a long time.  <G>

Michele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron White" <ronwhite at members.evolt.org>


| This only works on NEW messages not REPLIES... It always replies in the
same
| format as the message you are replying to came in...
|
| Thanks,
| Ron White
|
| <snippage type="misleading info">
| For Outlook 2000:
| Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down
| <snippage>
|





From joshua at alphashop.net  Mon May 21 08:57:30 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Mon May 21 08:57:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
References: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEINCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org> <004a01c0e1fa$58a8b960$6e0f9ad8@mef>
Message-ID: <04e701c0e1fe$48499ae0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Outlook Express has an option called "Reply to emails in the format in which
they were sent" under the Send tab in options.  It does exactly as you were
asking.  I realize that this is Outlook Express, and not Outlook, which is
what the conversation thus far has been about.  So this observation may not
totally apply.  However, there is a way to make Outlook 2000 emulate Outlook
Express in some capacities.

I don't have Outlook 2000 installed, so I can't give you exact directions.
Somewhere in the options there is a way to turn off the exchange services
and "convert" Outlook to a pop-3 only service.  In the process of doing
that, it reloads a bunch of stuff from disk, then when you come back, you've
got the benefits of 2000, but a bunch of the menu items from Express are
available... namely, Services is Replaced with Accounts.  But, maybe, just
maybe, options includes some of the Outlook Express only options.  I wish I
could research this for you, but I only have access to Win 97 :(

-joshua

> | This only works on NEW messages not REPLIES... It always replies in the
> same
> | format as the message you are replying to came in...
> |
> | Thanks,
> | Ron White
> |
> | <snippage type="misleading info">
> | For Outlook 2000:
> | Tools > Options > Mail Format > "Send in this message format" drop-down
> | <snippage>
> |




From robin at rhastings.net  Mon May 21 09:09:40 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings)
Date: Mon May 21 09:09:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <04e701c0e1fe$48499ae0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHIEEECPAA.robin@rhastings.net>

>I don't have Outlook 2000 installed, so I can't give you exact directions.
>Somewhere in the options there is a way to turn off the exchange services
>and "convert" Outlook to a pop-3 only service.  In the process of doing
>that, it reloads a bunch of stuff from disk, then when you come back, you've
>got the benefits of 2000, but a bunch of the menu items from Express are
>available... namely, Services is Replaced with Accounts.  But, maybe, just
>maybe, options includes some of the Outlook Express only options.  I wish I
>could research this for you, but I only have access to Win 97 :(

>-joshua

I just took a look at Outlook 2000 configured with the Accounts setup rather than the
Services and I don't see any way to automatically set all email to Plain Text. There is a
setting for email you *create*, but the reply to section doesn't have this setting!

Robin Hastings
Public Computer Center Coordinator
hastingsr at mrrl.org
(573) 634-6064 x242






From ajohnson at mindseye.com  Mon May 21 09:12:35 2001
From: ajohnson at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Mon May 21 09:12:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Folder Upload
In-Reply-To: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIOECAIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCMEAPDIAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>

Hi Jon,

> I need to upload an entire directory/folder in ColdFusion. I tried
> putting the folder in a variable then set that as the FILEFIELD in the
> CFFILE tag, like this:
	-- Another thing you could look at would be having the user use Winzip to
zip up a bunch of files in a directory.  After uploading the .zip file, you
could then use Ben Forta's cfx_zip tag
(http://devex.allaire.com/developer/gallery/info.cfm?ID=CA347298-2830-11D4-A
A9700508B94F380&method=Full) to manipulate the zip file.


Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
MINDSEYE, Inc.
<phn>617.350.0339
<fax>617.350.8884
<icq>66172567
ajohnson at mindseye.com




From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Mon May 21 09:14:15 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Mon May 21 09:14:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] cookies
References: <1221918661-78255721@designframe.com>
Message-ID: <3B0922A5.2D17CDA3@nc.rr.com>

more on MSN's cookie sharing behavior is available at:

<URL: http://www.newmediawhore.com/article.php?story=20010518172000930>

if i am understanding the mechanism correctly, MSN's method of propogating these
cookies across domains can be easily hijacked, in much the same way formmail
scripts are hijacked by spammers.  in other words, your site can apparently pick
off MSN GUIDs, and associate them with other user-specific data.  granted, this
doesn't necessarily give away anything to the hijacker site, but it does open
the door for data gathering that can be turned over to MSN and associated with
other user data being tracked under the GUID.

hello hailstorm, goodbye privacy.

--rt



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon May 21 09:18:35 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon May 21 09:18:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion Folder Upload
In-Reply-To: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCMEAPDIAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAECMIHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> > I need to upload an entire directory/folder in ColdFusion. I tried
> > putting the folder in a variable then set that as the FILEFIELD in the
> > CFFILE tag, like this:
> 	-- Another thing you could look at would be having the user
> use Winzip to
> zip up a bunch of files in a directory.  After uploading the .zip
> file, you
> could then use Ben Forta's cfx_zip tag
> (http://devex.allaire.com/developer/gallery/info.cfm?ID=CA347298-2
> 830-11D4-A
> A9700508B94F380&method=Full) to manipulate the zip file.

Be careful with this tag. I once tried to use it to zip and delete (which
should be a feature of the tag if I remember correctly). When I ran the tag
one time, I got hit by that lovely IIS feature of "Let me lock the file for
you, sir!". So, what happaned? The CFX_ZIP tag got confused and began
zipping c:\*.*. Obviously, this was not a good thing. Not really a fault of
cfx_zip itself... but, just so you know.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 09:19:15 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 09:19:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <04e701c0e1fe$48499ae0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPOEJCCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

I'm already configured as Internet only, so no joy there... and like I said
I've been looking off and on for awhile...

Thanks,
Ron White

<snippage>
Somewhere in the options there is a way to turn off the exchange services
and "convert" Outlook to a pop-3 only service.
</snippage>





From evolt at befrance.com  Mon May 21 09:20:20 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Mon May 21 09:20:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
Message-ID: <003201c0e201$0d168c00$3601a8c0@tatooine>

Mail

Ahem... sorry for asking, but what's wrong with HTML in e-mails ? I'm just
asking for your opinion, that's all.
I don't know if that kind of question should be answered off-list ?

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266




From gwhitten at eprise.com  Mon May 21 09:22:40 2001
From: gwhitten at eprise.com (Whitten, Gary)
Date: Mon May 21 09:22:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
Message-ID: <A7CAA0BB64E9A941B6BD5C1A7DCB86AF1767CA@exhq0.eprise.com>

One major point: Some clients can only read plain text.  Otherwise, they
often get a 'winmail.dat' attachment that contains the formatting and any
'real' attachments that were on the email.

-----Original Message-----
From: skamp [mailto:evolt at befrance.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:19 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)


Mail

Ahem... sorry for asking, but what's wrong with HTML in e-mails ? I'm just
asking for your opinion, that's all.
I don't know if that kind of question should be answered off-list ?

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon May 21 09:23:10 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon May 21 09:23:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
References: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHIEEECPAA.robin@rhastings.net>
Message-ID: <009201c0e201$add47300$6e0f9ad8@mef>

Hmm.. made me go back and look again.

Under OE, there is a setting under tools, options, send .. the last
checkbox, "Reply to messages using the format in which they were sent",
deselect this option.  (I don't have O2K installed, can't check for sure.)

This should make replies plain text now, or whatever your default setting
is.

HTH,

Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hastings" <robin at rhastings.net>


| I just took a look at Outlook 2000 configured with the Accounts setup
rather than the
| Services and I don't see any way to automatically set all email to Plain
Text. There is a
| setting for email you *create*, but the reply to section doesn't have this
setting!






From jabakum at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 09:29:40 2001
From: jabakum at hotmail.com (Jamie Bakum)
Date: Mon May 21 09:29:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
Message-ID: <F192GQvnbEG10Gai4om00004558@hotmail.com>

I think an important distinction to make is between solicited and 
unsolicited html email -

For certain campaigns we'll do some pretty spiffy html email , but ALWAYS 
for folks who've specifically requested them. I HATE html email I haven't 
subscribed to.
---

Jamie
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From kumquat at sckans.edu  Mon May 21 09:31:15 2001
From: kumquat at sckans.edu (kumquat at sckans.edu)
Date: Mon May 21 09:31:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
Message-ID: <200105211431.JAA09163@jinx.sckans.edu>

<geek>I perfer pine to read my email when I can.</geek>

<pout>Except right now I don't have telnet access to check my e-mail</pout>





From catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk  Mon May 21 09:32:00 2001
From: catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk (Dave Hinton)
Date: Mon May 21 09:32:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
References: <LAW2-F128Je5KuJmOTH0001143e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B092712.18FF85DB@pat.mkn.co.uk>

> >I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
> >I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page",
> >but I
> >only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
> >
> >Know what I mean?

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
> In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new
> page is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not
> allowed to read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of
> the new page.

You could use a frameset, with a single frame.  Staying on your site
would keep you in your frameset.  Going to a different site would lose
the frameset, in which your onunload can fire.

Of course, this means people can't bookmark any of the pages on your
site (apart from the first one).  And they'll have trouble linking to
you as well (except to the front page).

-- 
  //  Dave Hinton
=()=  Web Developer, MarketNet
//    London 7691 8968



From damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk  Mon May 21 09:33:15 2001
From: damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk (Damien Cola)
Date: Mon May 21 09:33:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript question
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522071110.00af37f0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEIKILJODKDPBMBFMENGCBAA.damien.cola@synaptique.co.uk>

Hello, I get an error of the type
"access disallowed from scripts at http://sitea.synapdev.com/tag.htm
to documents at another domain."

basically, on sitea I have a call to a javascript
<script language="javascript"
src="http://sited.synapdev.com/javascript.js"></script>

and my javascript looks like this:

cm_arg =
"http://sitee.synapdev.com/"+CM_CLIENT+"_v?RUB="+CM_RUBRIQUE+"&SEC="+C$
cm_arg+="&TL="+top.location.href+"&RF="+document.referrer;
// do we want to know about screen resolution and color depth ?
//
s=screen;r=s.width;c=(navigator.appName!="Netscape")?s.colorDepth:s.pixelDep
$
// cm_arg+="&RES="+r+"&COL="+c;

i = new Image(1,1);
i.src = cm_arg;

---
I have spotted the TOP.LOCATION.HREF is giving this error message when I
have the page sitea.synapdev.com/tag.htm embbed in a frameset (the frameset
is from yet another site, siteb.synapdev.com)

I wonder if this error comes from my server setup (?) or if it is a
javascript feature that can be worked around.. ?
My goal being to get top.location.href  (it should give
http://siteb.synapdev.com/frameset.htm )

Anyone can help me? Any idea at all?




From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Mon May 21 09:48:21 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Mon May 21 09:48:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
Message-ID: <200105211448.f4LEmH029501@leo.evolt.org>

Ah, but there is another problem lurking here for which you should be aware...

There are settings in Microsoft's Exchange Server which will also render a duplicate of your message in html and place a "content type=text/html" line in the header. So, even if you send plain text (as you have checked and selected in the appropriate boxes in Outlook) there is a duplicate of the message sent with html formating. This has posed and continues to pose problems for me Outlook 2000 as I receive thelist via Outlook, but respond using third party web based mail to get really truly plain text.

wwjbd

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries
1.800.820.HEAT x327
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From elfur at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 10:14:26 2001
From: elfur at members.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Mon May 21 10:14:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
References: <LAW2-F60HrdZ6VzvdrE0000d16a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <13c201c0e208$b9b53450$40aefea9@DWARFS>

From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>


| >Any ideas? I am thinking that using ASP I can check the new domain or IP
| >out and see if it matches my IP. If not, then do an onunload popup.
|
| If they leave your site your ASP won't be called so it can't do anything.

this gave me an idea that might be some kind of solution:

make a redirect page on your server and send the external links as a
querystring and leaving that redirect page throws a popup on exit.
(I don't really like that approach, but I think it works)

<tip author="elfur" type="example of external link that throws annoying
popup at you on exit">

<a href="redirect.asp?url=google.com" title="the ultimate search
engine">Google - the ultimate search engine</a>

and on redirect.asp:
<%
strUrl = Request.QueryString(url)
response.write("<meta http-equiv=""Refresh"" content=""0; url=" & strUrl &
""">")
%>
onExit(annoyingPopUpSayingGoodbye())
(I don't know the correct javascript syntax for this one, and am not really
interested in looking it up :)
</tip>

HTH
elfur




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 10:21:01 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 10:21:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone.
Message-ID: <001c01c0e20a$21a844c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

Hello,
I just got an account at Evolt and signed up to this list yesterday. Just
sending out a heads-up to everyone, I think this is a great idea and
hopefully I will be useful to you all.

-Linus a.k.a. Quicksilver




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 10:24:06 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 10:24:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone. (a tip)
References: <001c01c0e20a$21a844c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <002601c0e20a$8fdab7c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

I forgot to include a tip, since that was sort of off-topic..

<tip>
This may seem obvious, but all to often people forget about it: always,
always keep your code organised and easy to read. You'll thank yourself
later when you have to debug it or make an update to it.
</tip>




From evolt at befrance.com  Mon May 21 10:24:11 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Mon May 21 10:24:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone.
References: <001c01c0e20a$21a844c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c0e209$f8600800$3601a8c0@tatooine>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Quicksilver" <qsfc at home.com>
To: "Evolt List" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:24 PM
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone.


> Hello,
> I just got an account at Evolt and signed up to this list yesterday. Just
> sending out a heads-up to everyone, I think this is a great idea and
> hopefully I will be useful to you all.

Well I've subscribed a few days ago only, but welcome anyway :)

> -Linus a.k.a. Quicksilver

Okay, so do I call you Linus ?

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 10:26:22 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 10:26:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript question
Message-ID: <LAW2-F131voIt94laen000118bf@hotmail.com>

>Hello, I get an error of the type
>"access disallowed from scripts at http://sitea.synapdev.com/tag.htm
>to documents at another domain."

Scripts in pages that come from one web server may not read out certain 
properties (like the location.href) of pages that come from another web 
server.

For more info, see http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?framebust.html, 
where I attempt (unsuccesfully) to write a generic frame busting script, a 
script that sees if you are in someone else's frameset and if you are, jumps 
out.

>I wonder if this error comes from my server setup (?) or if it is a
>javascript feature that can be worked around.. ?
>My goal being to get top.location.href  (it should give
>http://siteb.synapdev.com/frameset.htm )

You cannot get top.location.href , it is not allowed. Can't be helped. Maybe 
you can set a variable in the top frame and read it out in the other frames, 
but I wouldn't be surprised if even that is not allowed in certain browsers.

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 10:30:12 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 10:30:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone.
References: <001c01c0e20a$21a844c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com> <001c01c0e209$f8600800$3601a8c0@tatooine>
Message-ID: <004201c0e20b$6933e460$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

: Okay, so do I call you Linus ?
: 
: Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
: Web Developer

Yes, "Linus" is fine. :)

You people sure do reply quickly.




From paola at limitless.co.uk  Mon May 21 10:33:57 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Mon May 21 10:33:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Screen Resloution Detection.
References: <3B08087B.9193.3234240C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B09363A.7468A49F@limitless.co.uk>

aardvark wrote:
> we seem to still
> be having trouble getting people to recognize that screen resolution does
> not equate to *window* size...

I suspect it's because screen resolution stats are very easy to
come by, for instance from StatMarket and MyComputer.

Even if knowing screen resolution was useful, StatMarket's own
browser stats doesn't describe all, or even half, the visitors
to the sites that they monitor.

I just sampled a few stats pages now and found that the screen
resolution stats only describe 42% of the visitors they claim these
sites have.  That means, if StatMarket publish stats that 70%, say,
people have screen resolutions of 800x600 it's actually 42% of 70%
which is 29%.  They have *no* screen resolution stats on the
remaining 58% visitors.

If you're interested, here's how I arrived at the 42% :

The number of "daily unique" visitors (V) are shown alongside
the number of visitors that screen resolution stats (S) were
collected for.

1) CenterFind  Apr '01  V: 2,092,673  S:       214  0.01% [1]
   CenterFind  Dec '00  V: 2,472,188  S: 1,897,239   78%
2) imsisoft    Apr '01  V:    75,026  S:    31,183   42%
   imsisoft    Dec '00  V:    64,727  S:    29,015   45%
3) microwho    Apr '01  V:     2,760  S:       442   16%
   microwho    Dec '00  V:     4,528  S:       430    9%
4) InetUK      Apr '01  V: 4,915      S:     2,518   51%

Totals                  V: 4,716,817  S: 1,961,041   42%

Stats sources [2]:
1) http://vwr1.hitbox.com/HitboxUI?acct=WQ5011120DEF&p=1
2) http://vwr1.hitbox.com/HitboxUI?acct=WQ500824D2FE94EN0&p=1
3) http://vwr1.hitbox.com/HitboxUI?acct=WQ590901I5RN57EN0&p=1
4) http://vwr1.hitbox.com/HitboxUI?acct=WQ5102141LZB62EN0&p=1

This is compounded by the fact that HitBox (the s/w StatMarket
use to collect stats) can't accurately count *all* visitors to
a web site.  It relies on JS, cookies and images being viewed,
and the HitBox s/w is on sites that are biased to certain
browsers, etc, anyway.

The percentage of visitors used for the other stats seems to be
also less than 100% in StatMarket, even for browser stats.

StatMarket's stats are promoted as something web developers can
use to make informed decisions.  Although the site says "accurate
internet stats", I believe that their terms are more believable:
"WEBSIDESTORY MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT [...] iii) THE RESULTS THAT
MAY BE OBTAINED FROM THE USE OF THE SERVICE WILL BE ACCURATE OR
RELIABLE, [...] AND (V) ANY ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE
CORRECTED." (from http://www.hitbox.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?disclaimer)

Pah.


Paola, who can also rant about the MyComputer's stats


[1] the 214 is possibly a result of a bug - which is why I 
included Dec 2000 figures.  Although missing out that month
produces a new average of 75% (the percentage of total visitors
that there were screen resolution stats for), since StatMarket
aggregates *all* stats from all HitBox sites, it is fairer to
include the buggy figure (since they will be including it too).

[2] For "Daily unique visitors" - go to Traffic -> Daily Uniques,
click the Year tab and read off the Daily Uniques for the
month.  For the number of visitors that screen resolution stats
were collected, go to System -> Screen Resolutions, click the
Month tab, select a month/year, read off the bold Total visitors.



From sales at iibiz.com  Mon May 21 10:34:42 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (sales at iibiz.com)
Date: Mon May 21 10:34:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Hello everyone.
References: <001c01c0e20a$21a844c0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com> <001c01c0e209$f8600800$3601a8c0@tatooine> <004201c0e20b$6933e460$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <012501c0e20c$3b4c1260$f5b8b3c7@iibiz>

> You people sure do reply quickly.


Which you'll really appreciate when you have a problem that needs solving!

Great group of people and skills here - Welcome!

Sandy






From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 10:41:42 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 10:41:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <009201c0e201$add47300$6e0f9ad8@mef>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPIEJMCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Doesn't exist in O2K...

Thanks,
Ron White 
<snip>
Under OE, there is a setting under tools, options, send .. the last
checkbox, "Reply to messages using the format in which they were sent",
deselect this option.  (I don't have O2K installed, can't check for sure.)
</snip>




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon May 21 11:19:17 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon May 21 11:19:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Quicktimemovie into flash 5.0
In-Reply-To: <CDEBKKHHPPEDKCBCGGADGEEECBAA.deike.schulz@getthere.nl>
References: <CDEBKKHHPPEDKCBCGGADGEEECBAA.deike.schulz@getthere.nl>
Message-ID: <p04310102b72eee4689b3@[192.168.1.100]>

It's impossible in every direction!

You can't embed a Quicktime movie in a SWF.

You can add a Flash track to a Quicktime movie, but only Flash 4 
actions will work in Quicktime 5.

The only way you can accomplish what you want would be to export your 
Quicktime movie as a bitmap sequence with a frame rate equal to your 
Flash movie, and then import that sequence into Flash which might 
work for a very short QT movie or be OK for a CD ROM. When I did that 
for a project, I found all the info I needed on the Macromedia site.

>I'm looking for the best way to integrate a quicktime movie into flash 5.
>At the moment I put the movie into a new scene and link it with another one.
>It doesn't work so far...I tested it in the preview mode..and I'm not sure
>if the loadingtime of the movie stays accetable..Any suggestions or links
>for tutorials???
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From marciaanddarin at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 11:21:07 2001
From: marciaanddarin at yahoo.com (Marcia)
Date: Mon May 21 11:21:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
In-Reply-To: <p04310102b72eee4689b3@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20010521162114.40903.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>

 
 
Hi
I am interested in learning Perl. Is Perl used a lot
in creating web 
sites?  Do any of you use Perl? If so could you
recommend any books 
or sites to help me learn Perl?
Thank you so much
Marcia



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon May 21 11:36:27 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon May 21 11:36:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B08@arnold.bedrock.com>

Hmm,

Based on this fact, is it then possible to determine when one leaves the
site when one is not able to read the location of the next page? Or is being
unable to read it not a function of where one is?

curious,
-rory

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter-Paul Koch [mailto:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:11 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.



>I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
>
>I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
>only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
>
>Know what I mean?

In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new page 
is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not allowed to 
read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of the new page.

So: this is impossible.

ppk


_________________________________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From seth at sethbienek.com  Mon May 21 11:38:07 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Mon May 21 11:38:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>

I usually don't get involved with philosphy-type discussions on thelist, but this article kind of hit a nerve with me..  This has some pretty heavy implications.

Aimster must give up domain to AOL
http://www.msnbc.com/news/575492.asp

I think it's interesting that this napster-like service (which has had some run-ins with the RIAA as well) has been basically shut down by having it's domain name taken away by what would appear to be a company with very strong ties to the RIAA..

AOL says that Aimster doesn't have the right to use it's copyrighted sequence of letters "AIM" in it's name, though the Aimster service isn't (as I understand it) even similar to the Instant Messenger product.

Am I just being silly, or does this seem like one of those underhanded, "the end justifies the means" type dealings by "the man"?  Thoughts/comments?

Seth

------------------------------
Seth Bienek
Solutions Development Manager
Stonebridge Technologies, Inc.
972.455.7294 tel
972.404.9754 fax
ICQ #7673959
------------------------------





From damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk  Mon May 21 11:53:02 2001
From: damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk (Damien Cola)
Date: Mon May 21 11:53:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B08@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEIKILJODKDPBMBFEENNCBAA.damien.cola@synaptique.co.uk>

One solution is that the very first page of your site is a frameset of the
type
row "100%,*"
one the first 100% you call your first page of your site, and the rest of
the pages will appears in this frame ( "target = "_self" for each link )
one the second * you call a special page, empty, with a mere:
> body onunload="mypopupwindow()" <
< /body <

and of course the javascript function in the > head <
>




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Mon May 21 11:54:37 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Mon May 21 11:54:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
References: <20010521162114.40903.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B09480B.99FC77EF@webtuitive.com>

Marcia wrote:

> I am interested in learning Perl. Is Perl used a lot
> in creating web
> sites?  Do any of you use Perl? If so could you
> recommend any books
> or sites to help me learn Perl?

yes ("Perl is the duct tape of the Internet"), yes, and yes :-)

print: Programming Perl (Wall, Christiansen & Schwarz) 
	O'Reilly & Associates - http://ora.com/ 

web: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network - http://www.cpan.org/

     Perl Mongers - http://www.perl.org/

and many, many more, but that's a start ... enjoy!

-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ---(+1) 408-938-0567 --- http://www.webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Mon May 21 11:56:32 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Mon May 21 11:56:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F10B@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Marcia,


Perl is used a lot ... for a lot of different things.

I've used it more for 'quick' file manipulation than for 'web-things' so far
... but I'm still a perl-newbie.

Some of the Perl books on my shelf:

Learning Perl on Win32 Systems - O'Reilly  {Not too bad to read}

Programming Perl - O'Reilly  {May be a little 'deep' if you don't have any
programming background}

Perl Cookbook - O'Reilly  {Probably not a 'beginning' book}

Mastering Regular Expressions - O'Reilly  {Probably not a 'beginning' book}

Perl and CGI for the WorldWide Web - Elizabeth Castro - Peachpit Press
{Pretty easy reading}


HTH,


RonL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcia [mailto:marciaanddarin at yahoo.com]
Subject: [thelist] Perl
If so could you recommend any books or sites to help me learn Perl?



From m at pleonasm.com  Mon May 21 11:56:42 2001
From: m at pleonasm.com (Matt)
Date: Mon May 21 11:56:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
In-Reply-To: <20010521162114.40903.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <p04310102b72eee4689b3@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010521185439.007a9580@pleonasm.com>

Marcia,

I would absolutely, definitely say that the only way to go is with the
O'Reilly Perl series (http://perl.oreilly.com). Start with "Learning Perl"
to learn the basics, then read "Programming Perl" to go deeper. These books
are written by people deeply involved with the language, and feature
forewords from its creator, Larry Wall. I was coding Perl CGI scripts
within a week after reading these books. The examples are great, the
explanations are clear, and it is all written with honesty and humour.

I've always got the best prices at Bookpool (http://www.bookpool.com).
Right now, for example, Programming Perl (3rd edition) is $29.50 at
Bookpool, compared to the list price of $49.95. Amazing.

If you can wait until July, the new (3rd) edition of "Learning Perl" will
be published then, covering Perl version 5.6.

Perl is great.

HTH ... Matt




From oren at pinetree.net  Mon May 21 12:07:18 2001
From: oren at pinetree.net (Oren Levin)
Date: Mon May 21 12:07:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
In-Reply-To: <20010521162114.40903.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJJAHOLFEIAEKMPJFOELODKAA.oren@pinetree.net>

I use it all day long. A short booklist includes:

Perl 5 for Dummies
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764500449/pinetreeconsulti

Effective Perl Programming
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201419750/pinetreeconsulti

Programming Perl
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000278/pinetreeconsulti

Advanced Perl Programming
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565922204/pinetreeconsulti

Perl Cookbook
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565922433/pinetreeconsulti

Mastering Algorithms with Perl
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565923987/pinetreeconsulti

Web Client Programming with Perl
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/156592214X/pinetreeconsulti

Programming the Perl BDI (database interface)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565926994/pinetreeconsulti

Mastering Regular Expressions
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565922573/pinetreeconsulti

Oren

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Marcia
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:21 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Perl


 
 
Hi
I am interested in learning Perl. Is Perl used a lot
in creating web 
sites?  Do any of you use Perl? If so could you
recommend any books 
or sites to help me learn Perl?
Thank you so much
Marcia

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From GregHolmes at aol.com  Mon May 21 12:07:32 2001
From: GregHolmes at aol.com (GregHolmes at aol.com)
Date: Mon May 21 12:07:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
Message-ID: <6b.149f4351.283aa562@aol.com>

This is actually a bug (well, maybe they thought it was a feature)

 http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q222/5/08.ASP



"J. Blanchard" <jay.blanchard at thermon.com> wrote:


>Ah, but there is another problem lurking here for which you should be aware...

>There are settings in Microsoft's Exchange Server which will
>also render a duplicate of your message in html and place a
> "content type=text/html" line in the header. So, even if you
> send plain text (as you have checked and selected in the appropriate
> boxes in Outlook) there is a duplicate of the message sent with html
> formating. This has posed and continues to pose problems for me
> Outlook 2000 as I receive thelist via Outlook, but respond using
> third party web based mail to get really truly plain text.

>wwjbd

>Jay Blanchard
>Web Engineer
>Thermon Industries
>1.800.820.HEAT x327

Greg Holmes
gregholmes at aol.com



From cvos at netpaths.net  Mon May 21 12:17:17 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Mon May 21 12:17:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Pop-up when user leaves site
References: <20010521163953.33E199F0@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B094D98.B9E1F339@netpaths.net>

I agree, a frameset would be the eaasiest way to do this.  If you dont like the idea, you can make
an "invisible" frame that does the job you are looking for, but it not visible.  Look at the
inventors of popup window - porn sites.

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From winfried at huslik.de  Mon May 21 12:26:27 2001
From: winfried at huslik.de (Winfried Huslik)
Date: Mon May 21 12:26:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] in-company proxy server ignoring rules?
Message-ID: <E151tQm-0007YH-00@mrvdom04.kundenserver.de>

<problem>
>I just wanted to give you some feedback on the new functionality of  "One
>word a day". (...)
>However, there seem to be some bugs in the implementation, as you probably
>have heard already. When I browse through your site, other people's name
>turn up more or less unpredictably instead of mine. As far as I remember, it
>has been always been names of colleagues from my company. I do not feel it
>is a huge interference with my privacy, but it is somehow disturbing anyway.
</problem>

<reply>
(...) We have thoroughly investigated complaints about showing up other 
people's name when using our web site. This behaviour is due to the use 
of a proxy server inside your company that simply ignores all directives 
not to cache the pages. So if someone has visited a certain page it is 
(wrongly) stored on your proxy server's hard disk. For the next person 
who is visiting this page (with the same file name) the proxy server 
provides the cached page (with someone else's name in it) instead of 
getting the original from our server.
To overcome this behaviour we now add a unique extension to all file 
names which make it impossible for the proxy server to show a page from 
the cache.
</reply>

<state of the art>
<meta http-equiv="cache-control" content="no-cache, must-revalidate">
<meta http-equiv="content-base" content="http://www.owad.de/">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta http-equiv="expires" content="Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:00:00 GMT">
<meta http-equiv="last-modified" content="Mon, 21 May 2001 16:43:02 GMT">
<meta http-equiv="pragma" content="no-cache">
</state of the art>

<snippet>
     for headers:
header("Location: $url?".time());
     for links:
$text='<A HREF="'.$sess->url($PHP_SELF.'?idx='."$i&".time()).'">link 
text</A>'; 
     for submits:
<FORM ACTION="<?echo($PHP_SELF.'?'.time())?>" METHOD="POST">
</snippet>

It seems to work! But ... are proxies allowed to ignore the meta tags?

Hope this helps!

Winfried



From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 12:28:12 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 12:28:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl
References: <20010521162114.40903.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002101c0e21b$e5cebee0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

Hello,
Yes, Perl is in use quite a lot on the Internet for creating CGI
applications. My personal preference is PHP, but some people prefer
different things, and it's good to keep your skills broad.

I learned basic Perl/CGI from the tutorials at www.pageresource.com.

You will need a web host that supports CGI, I'm not sure if Evolt does or
not.

If you just want to learn the language Perl, without getting into web
applications, you can go to www.activeperl.com and download the interpreter,
and practise by running your scripts through it.

Hope I helped,
---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Mon May 21 12:29:07 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Mon May 21 12:29:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Pop-up when user leaves site
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28019DEF@flash>

<<
I agree, a frameset would be the eaasiest way to do this.  If you dont like
the idea, you can make
an "invisible" frame that does the job you are looking for, but it not
visible.  Look at the
inventors of popup window - porn sites.
>>

I was checking out how fortune.com does their popup...it seems that they've
rewritten all their links to point to a single frameset "index.jhtml",
passing in the actual page as a parameter.

Now, I have a question.  Is it possible to write a JavaScript function that
will automatically change every link on a page to point to somewhere else
(just like "index.jhtml").  It would be pain to do this manually...

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 12:33:47 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 12:33:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] auto-replacing links (was: Pop-up when user leaves site)
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28019DEF@flash>
Message-ID: <003a01c0e21c$ac19af60$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

> Now, I have a question.  Is it possible to write a JavaScript function
that
> will automatically change every link on a page to point to somewhere else
> (just like "index.jhtml").  It would be pain to do this manually...

I don't think it's possible with Javascript because you'd need to write
files, but if you want to use some other, more powerful language it's a
simple matter of searching and replacing with regular expressions, then
writing back to the file.

Also, if you don't mind doing it one file at a time (but not one link at a
time) you can use a text editor (I use Editpad Lite, www.jgsoft.com) with a
search and replace function.

---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 12:34:02 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 12:34:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
Message-ID: <LAW2-F104uwVZn6Qpix000119cd@hotmail.com>


>
>Based on this fact, is it then possible to determine when one leaves the 
>site when one is not able to read the location of the next page?

I tried this but it didn't work. It's very hard to say 'if you cannot read 
out this property' in JavaScript. Suggestions are welcome.

Of course you might try using the onError event handler, but I was hoping to 
find something more general. After all, onError is a dangerous event since 
any error may fire it, not just the error you're looking for.

>Or is being unable to read it not a function of where one is?

No, if it can't be read out you're on a page from another server. The 
problem is that you cannot read out whether or not you're allowed to read it 
out <g>.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon May 21 12:37:52 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon May 21 12:37:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <p04310104b72f00f3ecfe@[192.168.1.100]>

>I usually don't get involved with philosphy-type discussions on 
>thelist, but this article kind of hit a nerve with me..  This has 
>some pretty heavy implications.
>
>Aimster must give up domain to AOL
>http://www.msnbc.com/news/575492.asp

I'm not familiar with the case, but it seems to me that if the 
finding is correct that Aimster choose their name "because of the 
popularity" of AIM (thus intentionally trying to confuse their 
trademark with a trademark of another company) the verdict was 
correct.

Like if the founders last name or initials are AIM or there was any 
other good reason for the choice of the name, I would indeed think it 
horrible, but from reading that article that doesn't seem to be the 
case.
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 12:47:18 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon May 21 12:47:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Pop-up when user leaves site
Message-ID: <LAW2-F57FGIUUJlNK9W00011bf7@hotmail.com>

>I was checking out how fortune.com does their popup...it seems that they've 
>rewritten all their links to point to a single frameset "index.jhtml", 
>passing in the actual page as a parameter.

But I also got the popup when I typed in a new URL in the location bar. I 
tested it somewhat more and it seems that the popup occasionally works on IE 
(Win and Mac), but never on Netscape (6/Win and 4/Mac).

>Now, I have a question.  Is it possible to write a JavaScript function that 
>will automatically change every link on a page to point to somewhere else 
>(just like "index.jhtml").  It would be pain to do this manually...

In each page:

var x = document.links
for (i=0;i<x.length;i++)
{
   x[i].href = 'page.html';
}

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Mon May 21 12:52:13 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Mon May 21 12:52:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Centering a background image
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010521134715.01ce8430@mail.idirect.ca>

Is it possible to center a background image in Netscape 4x?  It isn't a 
fixed background, just a centered image.
Peter Kaulback




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon May 21 13:28:48 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon May 21 13:28:48 2001
Subject: Silver Lining (was: RE: [fwd] RE: [thelist] cookies)
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B0C@arnold.bedrock.com>

<dsp:noise_reduction filter="possible real irritants">

Nobody wants to wait two days to have their message posted on a listserv,
because they have a suspicious Header (Send Mail Error) Whats so suspicous
about that you ...(out of courtesy)!


Your mail to 'thelist' with the subject:

    send mail error

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Suspicious header

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.
</dsp:noise_reduction>

Hmm...

Perhaps, though the confirmation email to signup did, indeed, include
education about sending HTML, that education is a process and, with the
current toolbox of implements with which to send mail including such
HTML-abundant, ease-of-use-deficient clients as the MS bunch, some of the
users may be sore pressed to understand the somewhat ambiguous message
generated upon receipt of the HTML-laden delivery. Ok. Having said my peace,
on with the show...

<tip type="usability">
There are general rules to making software usable by the intended audience
presented in a highly valuable and insightful work called "Software for use
:a practical guide to the models and methods of usage-centered design "
co-authored by Larry Constantine and Lucy Lockwood (see also:
www.foruse.com). These rules are not hard and fast by any measure, but
gracefully describe any situation with a degree of comprehension and
clarity, allowing the direction of the design to be influenced by highly
applicable and universal aims. From "Software for Use" and
http://www.foruse.com/Files/Papers/whatusers.pdf, the five rules of
usage-centric design are:

First Rule: Access: "Good systems are usable--without help or
instruction--by a user having
knowledge and experience in the application domain but no experience with
the system."

Second Rule: Efficacy: "Good systems do not interfere with or impede
efficient use by a skilled user
having substantial experience with the system."

Third Rule: Progression: "Good systems facilitate continuous advancement in
knowledge, skill, and
facility and accommodate progressive change in usage as the user gains
experience with the system."

Fourth Rule: Support: "Good systems support the real work that users are
trying to accomplish,
making it easier, simpler, faster, or more fun."

Fifth Rule: Context: "Good systems are suited to the conditions and
environment of the actual
operational context within which they are deployed."

Education which is immediate, simple and direct, yet reiterative and
reinforcing, about the software can fulfill at least the first four of these
rules. Being sensitive about how the education is presented, keeping in mind
culture, environment, language, capacity and stress, can fulfill all five.

</tip>



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon May 21 13:34:13 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon May 21 13:34:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf files)
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com>

deke wrote:
> This isn't something you do in HTML, this is something you do in
> server configuration. When the browser sees a MIME type it doesn't
> recognize, it asks the user where to save the file, rather than trying
> to open it.
> 
> With an NCSA-compatible server like Apache, you simply put a files
> in a special download-only directory, and stick an .htaccess file in
> that directory for each file type:
>     AddType application/octet-stream jpg
>     AddType application/octet-stream pdf
> 
> Since the application/octet-stream MIME type is simply a stream of
> 8-bit data of unknown use, there aren't going to be any applications
> set up to open it. If you want to have fun, you can use
>     AddType application/evolt-download-only jpg
>     AddType application/evolt-download-only pdf
> or even
>     AddType be/mine jpg
>     AddType true/love pdf

Is this going to work on IE/Windows? It's my understanding that IE makes
guesses about files with strange MIME types based on the extension. Have
you used this successfully? It's an interesting and clever shorthand  (I
like!) - but does it work to bring up the "prompt to save" box for most
browsers in a reliable way? And does doing it this way impact Macintosh?
It seems like feeding an unknown mime type might make it unviewable (to
most users) on the Mac side.

TIA,
	Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Mon May 21 13:47:19 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Mon May 21 13:47:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com> <p04310104b72f00f3ecfe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <010c01c0e226$75eaf160$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> >I usually don't get involved with philosphy-type discussions on 
> >thelist, but this article kind of hit a nerve with me..  This has 
> >some pretty heavy implications.
> >
> >Aimster must give up domain to AOL
> >http://www.msnbc.com/news/575492.asp
> 
> I'm not familiar with the case, but it seems to me that if the 
> finding is correct that Aimster choose their name "because of the 
> popularity" of AIM (thus intentionally trying to confuse their 
> trademark with a trademark of another company) the verdict was 
> correct.

Aimster works *with* AIM. It's basically a plugin. It doesn't
compete... nothing like that. In fact, I'd say it promotes it. You
can't use Aimster without AIM. *shrug* It's almost like reaming all
the "buddy icon" sites out there.

> Like if the founders last name or initials are AIM or there was any
>  other good reason for the choice of the name, I would indeed think
> it  horrible, but from reading that article that doesn't seem to be
> the  case.

Now that you know why it has "AIM" in the name, what do you think?



- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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7VaDo1SRMSs4gxUzd/pq2Dfz
=ersP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From web at master.gen.in.us  Mon May 21 13:48:44 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Mon May 21 13:48:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B08@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <3B092C02.9443.B0EE285@localhost>

On 21 May 2001, at 9:38, Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com posted a message which said:

> Based on this fact, is it then possible to determine when one leaves the
> site when one is not able to read the location of the next page? Or is being
> unable to read it not a function of where one is?

The web is state-less. You don't really "stay" at a site - you 
retrieve the files to build a page and disconnect, then create
a new connection with the next page that you visit.

Some sites use links of the form
<a href="http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/redirect?URL=www.yahoo.com/porn.html">
Yahoo fun</a> which means the user clicks on the redirect program 
at *your* site in order to get redirected elsewhere. 

But if the user types in a URL, or clicks on a bookmark, or drags a
page from the desktop to the browser, and clicks on a link in *that*
page, or the dog tears the wire out of the wall and the user disconnects,
you don't have any way of knowing that the user is gone.

Those web pages that say "There are currently 44 people visiting our
websites"? The webmasters are likely to lie about other things as well.

deke




------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 13:49:59 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 13:49:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Difference between <strong> and <b>
Message-ID: <002601c0e227$5202efe0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

    It's surprising, but I've been using HTML for a significant portion of
my life and I don't know the difference. I was reading the guidelines for
article submissions to Evolt, and it was talking about <strong> defining
structure and <b> defining style. The same went for <em> and <i> tags.

    What's the difference? Why is it important?

Thanks,
---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon May 21 13:53:59 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Mon May 21 13:53:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Centering a background image
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010521134715.01ce8430@mail.idirect.ca>
Message-ID: <014f01c0e228$8996bb20$2860398a@newcos.com>

Peter,

> Is it possible to center a background image in Netscape 4x?  It isn't a
> fixed background, just a centered image.

    Unfortunately, no, it isn't. Netscape 4.x does not recognize the CSS
background-position property.

James Aylard




From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Mon May 21 13:54:34 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon May 21 13:54:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <20010521195404-r01010600-8797a354@10.0.0.15>

On 21/5/01 at 11:37 am, seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) wrote:

> AOL says that Aimster doesn't have the right to use it's copyrighted
> sequence of letters "AIM" in it's name, though the Aimster service
> isn't (as I understand it) even similar to the Instant Messenger
> product.
> 

>From what this <http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,38118,00.html> Wired
News article says, Aimster runs on top of AOL's Instant Messenger, so the
implication must be that the arbitration people think that Aimster is clearly
passing off on AOL, by implying some official link through the use of its
initials. 

I'm not sure I care much one way or the other, to be honest. AOL may well be the
spawn of the devil, but the morality of services which, despite claims to the
contrary, exist primarily to facilitate ripping people's work off is murky:

One's a monolithic capitalist entity, the other's a distributed capitalist
entity - Aimster are only in this to make money. I don't know what their
business model is, but someone's being taken for a ride somewhere: it relies on
people distributing items that other people paid to produce. Gnutella has the
best claim to a moral right to exist, in my opinion.  

Oh, and the record companies can f**k right off too.

Have I missed anyone?

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'I just like to know,' said Pooh humbly. 'So as I can say to myself: 
   "I've got fourteen pots of honey left" or fifteen, as the case may be.
It's sort of comforting.'



From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon May 21 13:59:39 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon May 21 13:59:39 2001
Subject: Silver Lining (was: RE: [fwd] RE: [thelist] cookies)
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B0C@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <3B096569.50FA342@starkmedia.com>

Hey Rory - 

I've been thinking about doing this for a while now, and just as an FYI
to everyone, the default message will be something like, "Probably not
plaintext formatted message" instead of suspicous header. Hopefully
thats a little more verbose for everyone :)

.djc.

Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com wrote:

> Hmm...
> 
> Perhaps, though the confirmation email to signup did, indeed, include
> education about sending HTML, that education is a process and, with the
> current toolbox of implements with which to send mail including such
> HTML-abundant, ease-of-use-deficient clients as the MS bunch, some of the
> users may be sore pressed to understand the somewhat ambiguous message
> generated upon receipt of the HTML-laden delivery. Ok. Having said my peace,
> on with the show...
>



From morbus at disobey.com  Mon May 21 14:00:54 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Mon May 21 14:00:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Difference between <strong> and <b>
In-Reply-To: <002601c0e227$5202efe0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010521145807.00a5a1e0@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >It's surprising, but I've been using HTML for a significant portion of
 >my life and I don't know the difference. I was reading the guidelines for
 >article submissions to Evolt, and it was talking about <strong> defining
 >structure and <b> defining style. The same went for <em> and <i> tags.

Think of three different situations:

  - a web browser.

  - a blind person.

  - a palm pilot.

"Bold" is a style - when you say "bold a word", people basically know that 
it means to add more ... .. "ink" around the letters until they stand out 
more amongst the rest of the letters.

That, unfortunately, means nothing to a blind person. And on Palm Pilot's 
and other PDA's, text is already bold because screen resolution is small 
enough to make squinting a pain in the ass. You can't bold a bold without 
screwing something up.

"Bold" is a style - we know what "bold" is supposed to look like.

"Strong" however is an indication of what something should look it. 
"Strong" could (and often does) mean "bold" in a browser, but it could also 
mean a lower tone for a speaking program like Jaws (for blind people). And 
strong on a Palm Pilot may be an underline (since you can't bold a bold).

A quick explanation, but hopefully understandable. "Bold" is a style. HTML 
was never meant to be about styles. Do some searches for "Tim Berners Lee" 
and "the semantic web". <strong> is semantic - it describes the text it 
surrounds ("this text should be stronger than the rest of the text you've 
displayed") as opposed to describing HOW the text it surrounds SHOULD BE 
DISPLAYED ("this text should be bold").


Morbus Iff
.sig on other machine.
http://www.disobey.com/
http://www.gamegrene.com/




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon May 21 14:07:39 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon May 21 14:07:39 2001
Subject: State or Confusion (was:RE: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves sit
	e.)
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B0E@arnold.bedrock.com>

Thanks, err, Mr. Koch. (How shall I address you, sir?)

I might think, then, that the security mechanism is what is prohibitive
about reading it out. It must, although I can't find this on
http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/communicator/jsguide4/index.htm?c
ontent=sec.htm, return a security exception or an undefined variable which
would generate a runtime error, does this sound right?

So, generally speaking, it would seem that site-experience management is not
very well developed in the web model. As deke points out in his latest post,
the web is stateless. What I wonder is the usefulness of capturing the
transition from one site to another. Perhaps in terms of security, privacy,
credibility, etc., it may be useful to know of transitions from and to other
sites. But, wait, maybe this is where third-party certification steps in... 

appreciative,
-rory

BTW, is this level of <euphemism>abstract thinking</euphemism> allowed in
this list?

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter-Paul Koch [mailto:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:34 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.




>
>Based on this fact, is it then possible to determine when one leaves the 
>site when one is not able to read the location of the next page?

I tried this but it didn't work. It's very hard to say 'if you cannot read 
out this property' in JavaScript. Suggestions are welcome.

Of course you might try using the onError event handler, but I was hoping to

find something more general. After all, onError is a dangerous event since 
any error may fire it, not just the error you're looking for.

>Or is being unable to read it not a function of where one is?

No, if it can't be read out you're on a page from another server. The 
problem is that you cannot read out whether or not you're allowed to read it

out <g>.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From elfur at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 14:08:24 2001
From: elfur at members.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Mon May 21 14:08:24 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.)
References: <3B092C02.9443.B0EE285@localhost>
Message-ID: <14ba01c0e229$67d14b80$40aefea9@DWARFS>

From: "deke " <web at master.gen.in.us>


| On 21 May 2001, at 9:38, Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com posted a message which
said:
|
| The web is state-less. You don't really "stay" at a site - you
| retrieve the files to build a page and disconnect, then create
| a new connection with the next page that you visit.
|
<snip>
|
| Those web pages that say "There are currently 44 people visiting our
| websites"? The webmasters are likely to lie about other things as well.

hold on, why do I have to be lying if I say that 44 people are visiting my
website now?

are you saying that there's no way to count that?

what about session variables?

*the puzzled one*




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 14:08:29 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 14:08:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Difference between <strong> and <b>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010521145807.00a5a1e0@red.totalnetnh.net>
Message-ID: <003801c0e229$e83ca940$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

Thank you! I've always wondered.

- qs




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon May 21 14:28:40 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon May 21 14:28:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <010c01c0e226$75eaf160$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIAEFFDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
 <p04310104b72f00f3ecfe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <010c01c0e226$75eaf160$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>
Message-ID: <p04310108b72f177937b6@[192.168.1.100]>

>Aimster works *with* AIM. It's basically a plugin. It doesn't
>compete... nothing like that. In fact, I'd say it promotes it. You
>can't use Aimster without AIM. *shrug* It's almost like reaming all
>the "buddy icon" sites out there.
>
>>  Like if the founders last name or initials are AIM or there was any
>>   other good reason for the choice of the name, I would indeed think
>>  it  horrible, but from reading that article that doesn't seem to be
>>  the  case.
>
>Now that you know why it has "AIM" in the name, what do you think?

It's up to the trademark holder when they decide to enforce the use 
of their trademark. They might not see buddy icon sites as being 
detrimental to their business, whereas they might see Aimster as such.

I would be uncomfortable with someone telling me "If you're going to 
exercise your rights in situation A, then you must also exercise your 
rights is situations B-Z as well."

Don't get me wrong, I'm terrified that all these huge entities are 
merging and that the distinction between corporate America and the 
current executive administration of my country is blurry at best. But 
taking into consideration the reason a entity wanted to enforce their 
right to the exclusive use of their trademark goes against the 
fundamental concept of what a trademark is. So speculating on that 
reason doesn't make a lot of sense to me ...
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From sgd at ti3.com  Mon May 21 14:29:30 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon May 21 14:29:30 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves sit
	e.)
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D64@gate.ti3.com>

> |
> | Those web pages that say "There are currently 44 people visiting our
> | websites"? The webmasters are likely to lie about other 
> things as well.

How is this a lie?

If I have a log entry that you grabbed my default.asp page twenty seconds
ago, I can reasonably say that you are currently visiting my site. I can
also consider the current simultaneous connections open --remember there is
something called HTTP Keep-Alives, which, when negotiated (it's http 1.1),
keeps the connection from the browser to the webserver open. This makes
grabbing supplemental files (images, css files, etc) faster.

Statistics programs typically employ algorithms that consider how recently
pages were viewed by individual ip addresses to come up with a "44 people
are visiting" number.

Server-side engines (ASP, CF) *can* use their own Session tracking (not sure
of the analogous CF term) to display this, but it can be erroneous for a
couple reasons: bad implementation (the site developer has to write stuff,
at least in ASP anyway), idle sessions (you set your session timeout for 20
minutes, and it lives for the full 20 minutes even though I was there only
5), and in the case of ASP, bugs (the Session_OnEnd event does not fire, so
you can't do reliable cleanup/accounting).

So it's not a lie, but a close estimate based on real numbers. If you ask my
opinion on using "44 people are visiting my site right now,"  on a page, I'd
say it's a good exercise, but not something to require/push as a necessary
item (IOW, who cares how many people are visiting the site, except the site
owner(s)?)

forgive me if this is redundant/off-base; I missed most of the thread....

sgd



From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Mon May 21 14:35:55 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon May 21 14:35:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <20010521195404-r01010600-8797a354@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <20010521203514-r01010600-7377afe6@10.0.0.15>

On 21/5/01 at 7:53 pm, ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson) wrote:

[dull stuff snipped]

I forgot a tip - sorry, here's one to make up.

<tip>If you want to make the first paragraph in a sequence have no indent, but
with the following paragraphs having an indent, *and* you don't want to use a
lot of nasty class attributes to do it, CSS2 contextual selectors provide an
easy way. The E+F type selector (select element F immediately preceded by
element E) Is a really easy way to do this:

P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
P+P { text-indent: 12pt; }

The P+P selector will select all <P> tags that are immediately preceded by a <P>
tag, which is all <P> tags except the first in a sequence. i.e.
<h2>head</h2><p>first para</p><p>next para</p><p>more para</p>.

Since the first para is immediately preceded by an <H2> the P+P selector won't
match it, so its text-indent remains zero.
</tip>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'I just like to know,' said Pooh humbly. 'So as I can say to myself: 
   "I've got fourteen pots of honey left" or fifteen, as the case may be.
It's sort of comforting.'



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 14:52:20 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 14:52:20 2001
Subject: CSS2 was RE: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <20010521203514-r01010600-7377afe6@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPAEKICGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Will this work if there are any other tags in the paragraphs?? Or do you
have to give up using any other tags for this to work?

Thanks,
Ron White

<Snipplage>
<tip>If you want to make the first paragraph in a sequence have no indent,
but
with the following paragraphs having an indent, *and* you don't want to use
a
lot of nasty class attributes to do it, CSS2 contextual selectors provide an
easy way. The E+F type selector (select element F immediately preceded by
element E) Is a really easy way to do this:

P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
P+P { text-indent: 12pt; }

The P+P selector will select all <P> tags that are immediately preceded by a
<P>
tag, which is all <P> tags except the first in a sequence. i.e.
<h2>head</h2><p>first para</p><p>next para</p><p>more para</p>.

Since the first para is immediately preceded by an <H2> the P+P selector
won't
match it, so its text-indent remains zero.
</Snipplage>





From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Mon May 21 15:00:05 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon May 21 15:00:05 2001
Subject: CSS2 was RE: [thelist] Aimster must give up domain to AOL
In-Reply-To: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPAEKICGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010521205920-r01010600-42e2fccf@10.0.0.15>

On 21/5/01 at 3:51 pm, ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White) wrote:

> Will this work if there are any other tags in the paragraphs?? Or do you
> have to give up using any other tags for this to work?

It works. It's dependent on Siblings - elements which are on the same level, in
terms of hierarchy, as each other:

<h2></h2>
<p><b></b></p>
<p></p>
<div>
    <p></p>
    <p></p>
</div>


The two <P>s at the same level as <h2> and <div> are siblings of those elements.
The <B> is a child of the <P> that contains it, so it doesn't affect the
relationships between its parent and its parent's sibling elements. The <P>s
which are children of the <div> (a film, surely...) are siblings of each other
but not of the first two <P>s.

That probably doesn't make much sense, sorry.

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Can they fly?' asked Roo.
   'Yes,' said Tigger, 'they're very good flyers, Tiggers are. 
Strornry good flyers.'
   'Oo!' said Roo. 'Can they fly as well as Owl?'
   'Yes,' said Tigger. 'Only they don't want to.'



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon May 21 15:02:20 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Mon May 21 15:02:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL")
References: <20010521203514-r01010600-7377afe6@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <01a301c0e232$15775c40$2860398a@newcos.com>

Matt,

<snippet>
> If you want to make the first paragraph in a sequence have no indent, but
> with the following paragraphs having an indent, *and* you don't want to
use a
> lot of nasty class attributes to do it, CSS2 contextual selectors provide
an
> easy way....
</snippet>

    ...Provided that you understand that it will work in few browsers
currently in use (Netscape 6.x and Opera 3+). It will *not* work in any
version of IE, up to and including IE 6 PP1 -- nor, unsurprisingly, in
Netscape 4.x.

James Aylard





From joxn at vernum.com  Mon May 21 15:12:25 2001
From: joxn at vernum.com (Joxn)
Date: Mon May 21 15:12:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP + mysql.sock
Message-ID: <3B0976D8.46AA6778@vernum.com>

Hi,
just grabbed php-4.0.5 for our RedHat6 box and compiled it with
./configure --with-mysql --with-apxs --enable-track-vars

Since then I get:
Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server
through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (111) in <FILENAME>

Before we had php-4.0.4p1 and I compiled it with the same flags.

As it turns out mySQL saves the socket to /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock.
To solve the problem rightaway, I simply set a symbolic link in /tmp to
that file.

However, I'd like to get rid of that link again. So where do I need to
make a change? Should I change anything to mySQL or is it PHP that needs
another option?

TIA,
Joxn
-- 
   || //\\ \\// |\\||  ::  joxn at vernum.com  ::
 \\|| \\// //\\ ||\\|  ::      8053703      ::



From colin_mitchell at wgbh.org  Mon May 21 15:17:00 2001
From: colin_mitchell at wgbh.org (Colin Mitchell)
Date: Mon May 21 15:17:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522071110.00af37f0@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <B72EEF8D.2D84%colin_mitchell@wgbh.org>

Hey All - This is my first post here.  Hi all.  My name's Colin, and I work
at WGBH in Boston.  We produce Nova, Antique's Roadshow, Frontline, yadda
yadda yadda, and I work on the local website.

Anyway, I have some code that does what you ask for.  But first, a warning:
doing this is annoying as heck to your users.

We redesigned our website last summer, and chose to have a 'floating
navigation' popup whenever a user left our site, and went to either a PBS
site, an NPR site, or a section of our own site that wasn't linked into the
new site.  We made this choice because we wanted to give the user a chance
to get back to our site once they had floated around somewhere else.
However, I have definite issues against doing it if it can all be avoided.

Anyway, what we do is this:  we have a wgbh.js file that gets included into
every page.  It sets an event handler, and includes the functions that get
called when the user leaves the page.  You can probably cut out the
externalLink function - that's where I check to see if this is a URL that
should get the floating nav.  Other than that though, this code should
essentially work out of the box.

Once again, I warn you against doing this unless you really feel it's
needed.

Here's the code:


// lets initialize some stuff here

var myHost = "www.wgbh.org";
var myPath = "/";


function popHelper() {

        var $url = 'http://' + myHost + myPath + 'floating_nav.html';

        myHeight = 81;
        myWidth = 681;

        yPos = screen.availHeight - myHeight - 20;

        optionStr = "scrollbars=no,location=no,width=" + myWidth +
",height=" + myHeight + ",screenY=" + yPos;

        helpWindow = window.open( $url, "NavBar", optionStr );

} // pophelper



//
// Event catching goes here...
//

var fNetscape = navigator.appName.indexOf("Microsoft") != -1 ? false : true;


if ( fNetscape == true ) {
        // For Netscape
        // set the event handler for clicks here
        window.captureEvents(Event.CLICK);
        window.onclick=checklink;
}
else {

        // for IE
        // set the event handler for clicks here
        document.onclick=checklink;
}



// we need to check for two types of links here
// - true external links
// - internal links that are to static, old pages
function externalLink( url ) {

        externalPages = new
Array("npr.org","pbs.org","pbskids.org","publicinteractive.net","saysyou.org
","interactive.wgbh.org", "main.wgbh.org");
        internalPages = new
Array("pages/gboston","pages/bostonarts","pages/basicblack","/eyeoned");

        var s = String(url);

        for ( var i = 0; i < externalPages.length; i++ ) {

                var re = externalPages[i];

                if ( s.search(re) != -1 ) {
                        return 1;
                }


        } // for


        for ( var i = 0; i < internalPages.length; i++ ) {

                var re = internalPages[i];

                if ( s.search(re) != -1 ) {
                        return 1;
                }


        } // for


        //
        // no luck, so return 0
        //
        return 0;

} // externalLink




function checklink(e) {


        // in IE, the event isnt passed to the handler.  This will take care
of that.

        if ( fNetscape == false ) {
                e = window.event;
                url = e.srcElement;
        }
        else {
                element = e.target;
                url = element.href;
        }

        // element should be an object of type Link
        if ( url && externalLink( url ) ) {
                popHelper();
        }

}







on 5/22/01 7:16 AM, CDitty at mail at redhotsweeps.com wrote:

> Not impossible, per say....You could add some JS code to each link that
> leaves your site that will call you JS popup function.  That is the only
> way I can see it done.  Talk about a real pain in the a** if you have a lot
> of external links.  Ouch.
> 
> Another way would be to open a frame.   Have the top frame be 1 pixel
> high.  And just do 1 popup onload.   Just a thought.
> 
> Chris
> 
> <tip - Movie>
> Ok, not really a tip, but it's the best thing I can think of this early.
> 
> Go see Shrek.  It was FUNNY.  Worth every penny.  Not really for
> kids but nothing that would really embarrass the parents.
> </tip>
> 
> At 07:10 AM 5/21/2001, you wrote:
> 
>>> I want to have a pop-up window come up when a user leaves my website.
>>> 
>>> I have found several scripts that work when a user leaves a "page", but I
>>> only want the pop-up to come up when they leave the "site".
>>> 
>>> Know what I mean?
>> 
>> In practice this can't be done, because you cannot find out if the new
>> page is from a new site. If the page is in another site you're not allowed
>> to read out the location, so you cannot tell the location of the new page.
>> 
>> So: this is impossible.
>> 
>> ppk
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 15:20:30 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Mon May 21 15:20:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS2
In-Reply-To: <20010521205920-r01010600-42e2fccf@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPKEKKCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Nope, made plenty sense, to me anyway... Kewl tip :-)

Thanks,
Ron White 





From alligotar at gmx.net  Mon May 21 15:29:50 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Mon May 21 15:29:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf 
 files)
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net>

Morn:

Joe Crawford schrieb:
> 

> > With an NCSA-compatible server like Apache, you simply put a files
> > in a special download-only directory, and stick an .htaccess file in
> > that directory for each file type:
> >     AddType application/octet-stream jpg
> >     AddType application/octet-stream pdf
> >
> > Since the application/octet-stream MIME type is simply a stream of
> > 8-bit data of unknown use, there aren't going to be any applications
> > set up to open it. If you want to have fun, you can use
> >     AddType application/evolt-download-only jpg
> >     AddType application/evolt-download-only pdf
> > or even
> >     AddType be/mine jpg
> >     AddType true/love pdf
> 
> Is this going to work on IE/Windows? It's my understanding that IE makes
> guesses about files with strange MIME types based on the extension. Have
> you used this successfully? It's an interesting and clever shorthand  (I
> like!) - but does it work to bring up the "prompt to save" box for most
> browsers in a reliable way? And does doing it this way impact Macintosh?
> It seems like feeding an unknown mime type might make it unviewable (to
> most users) on the Mac side.

Joe,
be calm, it will. This is not HTML as you might not noticed, these are
instructions for *server* how it has to deliver data. If have installed
Acrobat and you follow link that refers to pdf file, normally the
browser plugin of Acrobat kicks in and displays the file. This is the
default scenario. But if you tell your server to deliver as binary data,
you'll be prompted in your browser where you would to store the files.
That's the difference.

Hope you're satisfied,

Jakob

-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>



From david_shadovitz at xontech.com  Mon May 21 15:38:20 2001
From: david_shadovitz at xontech.com (David Shadovitz)
Date: Mon May 21 15:38:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF (SQL?): query.columnlist
Message-ID: <3B097CC0.9992BBF8@xontech.com>

Judah,
Check out my CF_ColumnList custom tag at the Developers Exchange.  I've
got a demo on my eVolt site, members.evolt.org/dshadovi/index.cfm.  It's
pure CFML and it'll do exactly what you want.
-David

> ...the problem is that the query column list comes out in alphabetical

> order.  I'm not quite sure whether SQL is returning the list
alphabetically
> or wether CF is changing the sort order when it turns it into a list.
Does
> anyone have an idea about an SQL or CF hack that will return the
column
> list to me in the order I created them in the database?




From r937 at interlog.com  Mon May 21 15:41:25 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon May 21 15:41:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] aliteracy and icons
Message-ID: <01c0e235$f957d180$7946149a@rudy>

today's eLabsReport ("an eNewsletter from Ziff Davis") contains a column by
one Peter Coffee entitled App Design Demands Simple Communication, in which
the same Washington Post article is cited that was mentioned in ben's
recent evolt article --

  In a Hurry: Choosing Not To Read
  http://evolt.org/article/Read/25/10457/index.html

i was going to post this as a comment to ben's article, but ya know, i'm
gonna grab about half of the eLabsReport column, and i'm not sure i want to
go through this long explanation there, so instead, and to compensate for
the content ripoff, i'll just add a link for anybody interested in getting
a ZD enewsletter to go to --
http://enewsletters.ziffdavis.com/pc_subscribe.asp?SubID=44


anyhow, the part that caught my eye about aliteracy was this --

   In Neal Stephenson's futuristic novel, "The Diamond Age,"
   a little girl only knows how to "read" animated icons.
   When her older brother refers to something by the initials
   of its full name, she's confused, but he explains that the
   shorter name comes from the way that the long name looks
   in letters.

   She asks, "What are letters?" Her brother explains: "Kinda
   like mediaglyphics except they're all black, and they're tiny,
   they don't move, they're old and boring and really hard to read.
   But you can use 'em to make short words for long words."
   Stephenson offers some far-reaching visions in this book,
   which is set in a time of ubiquitous nanotechnology, but his
   prediction of the disappearance of literacy (borne out by the
   research I've mentioned above) is perhaps the most troubling.

   And we can't just say, "Well, we'll do it with icons." For one
   thing, icons can be at least as ambiguous as words. In one famous
   example, the broken-glass icon that marks fragile objects'
   packaging was misinterpreted by freight handlers as meaning
   "damaged goods." They treated the boxes accordingly.

   Furthermore, the lack of interest in learning things spreads up
   the chain from one medium to another. A survey in the United
   Kingdom found that 95 percent of consumers did not understand
   the laboriously designed clothing-care symbols that have been
   devised for labels there to avoid the need for wordy instructions.


this calls to mind the ubiquitous house icon for the "home" page (as if we
all live in houses, eh?), or the hammer & wrench icon for "services" which
i always see  as meaning "if this site looks broken, go here to fix it"


rudy







From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Mon May 21 15:42:50 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Mon May 21 15:42:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] What really sucks about 3rd party e-mail
Message-ID: <200105212042.f4LKgn014552@leo.evolt.org>

Fow whatever reason (probably something financial in nature)some third-party e-mail services buffer your e-mail so that even if you sent a quick response to a lists members plight that response may not arrive in a timely fashion...say within a few moments of the actual response.

Does anyone have any hints to help find a third-party, preferably free, e-mail service that does not cache/buffer/fold/spindle/or otherwise mutilate your e-mail?

wwjbd...

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327

PS. This'll probably arrive before the one I sent two hours ago to respond to a post.
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From alex.staerck at libertysurf.co.uk  Mon May 21 15:53:10 2001
From: alex.staerck at libertysurf.co.uk (Alex Staerck)
Date: Mon May 21 15:53:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Vector Maps
References: <001722812031351BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <011501c0e238$88d1ca30$36d993c3@archetyp4nqdf1>

The clipart disc that is part of CorelDraw 6/7/8/9 contains a pretty
reasonable selection and all editable


Alex
>
> >Hi all, sorry if this question has been posted before - I'm in a hurry...
> >I'm looking for vector outline maps of the united states, central
> america,
> >and europe.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From webshot at neoncowboy.com  Mon May 21 16:00:18 2001
From: webshot at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Mon May 21 16:00:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] php custom error handling
In-Reply-To: <200105212042.f4LKgn014552@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAEEHODLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>

In an effort to remove unsightly query strings from my site's URLs (and in
the name of experimentation) I am trying to set up custom error handling by
placing a redirect script on the 404 page...

The admin for the server gave me these instructions:
"Simply name your custom error page badurl.php and FTP it to your www
directory, make sure the the file is owned by your username and that the
permissions are set correctly."

So, I have this script at the very top of the file 'badurl.php':
<?php
$URL=$REQUEST_URI;
$qs=substr("$URL", 31);
header ("Location: http://www.sugarbeachresort.net?page=$qs");
exit;
?>

but, it isn't happening. try it...
http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/grounds should hit the script on badurl.php,
then redirect to http://www.sugarbeachresort.net?page=grounds , it
doesn't...just gives me a real generic 404 page.

Any thoughts on why this doesn't work?

The permissions for that file are read/execute for owner, group and
other...if that matters.

thanks,
John Corry




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon May 21 16:19:35 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon May 21 16:19:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] php custom error handling
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAEEHODLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>
References: <200105212042.f4LKgn014552@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010521141736.02b0bd38@baratta.com>

At 01:59 PM 5/21/2001, you wrote:

>Any thoughts on why this doesn't work?

Make an .htaccess file (in the web root directory) and put the following in it:

ErrorDocument 404 /badurl.php



----
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Mon May 21 16:21:30 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon May 21 16:21:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL")
In-Reply-To: <01a301c0e232$15775c40$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <20010521222042-r01010600-3a9ca19f@10.0.0.15>

On 21/5/01 at 1:10 pm, webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard) wrote:

>     ...Provided that you understand that it will work in few browsers
> currently in use (Netscape 6.x and Opera 3+). It will *not* work in any
> version of IE, up to and including IE 6 PP1 -- nor, unsurprisingly, in
> Netscape 4.x.

No, but IE5/Mac Opera 5 and Mozilla/Netscape 6 is pretty good, and IE6 beta
certainly supports P+P and I think that 5 and 5.5 do to - although I can't
remember for certain. As far as other contextual selectors go the field does
become rather more limited, the articles about redesigning ALA are a case in
point and make interesting reading. 

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'They haven't got Brains, any of them, only Grey fluff that's blown 
into their heads by mistake,' - Eeyore



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon May 21 16:22:45 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon May 21 16:22:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] php custom error handling
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010521141736.02b0bd38@baratta.com>
References: <200105212042.f4LKgn014552@leo.evolt.org>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010521141736.02b0bd38@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <p05100305b72f373c068e@[192.168.1.5]>

>At 01:59 PM 5/21/2001, you wrote:
>
>>Any thoughts on why this doesn't work?
>
>Make an .htaccess file (in the web root directory) and put the 
>following in it:
>
>ErrorDocument 404 /badurl.php

But check with your hosting company first, as they may not allow you 
to override this in your .htaccess files. If you are not allowed, and 
you try to do this, then your whole site  may become unavailable.
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
http://www.thepander.co.nz/



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Mon May 21 16:26:35 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Mon May 21 16:26:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B640F@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya!

our marketing director has asked for a java applet on our home page to
scroll "news." of course, she wants a free one. so i checked out the
well-known one at http:/kimbat.org/java/TextScroll/TextScroll-HOWTO.html

but it apparently offers only a single clickable URL for the whole applet.
that is, i can't have each little news thing clickable to its own separate
page. 

i searched the evolt archives but found no recommendations. please offer
URLs!

tia,

fortune

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From jkmcnulty at mediaone.net  Mon May 21 16:28:50 2001
From: jkmcnulty at mediaone.net (Jim McNulty)
Date: Mon May 21 16:28:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] When does "bought code" become your own ?
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B06@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBKNMLALPBELAKCMPKOEICCKAA.jkmcnulty@mediaone.net>

The original license prohibited selling the code.  What if you contacted the
original company and tried to negotiate a new deal?  Maybe you could sell
your modified code and split the profit with them, or something like that.
It depends entirely on the company that wrote the original program, but it
might save you a lot of time and reduce the risk of a lawsuit.

--Jim McNulty




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Mon May 21 16:33:00 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Mon May 21 16:33:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B640F@mailhost.summithq
 .com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522162854.03177960@redhotsweeps.com>

How about a dhtml one instead?  Instant loading.

At 04:26 PM 5/21/2001, you wrote:
>hiya!
>
>our marketing director has asked for a java applet on our home page to
>scroll "news." of course, she wants a free one. so i checked out the
>well-known one at http:/kimbat.org/java/TextScroll/TextScroll-HOWTO.html
>
>but it apparently offers only a single clickable URL for the whole applet.
>that is, i can't have each little news thing clickable to its own separate
>page.
>
>i searched the evolt archives but found no recommendations. please offer
>URLs!
>
>tia,
>
>fortune




From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Mon May 21 16:37:10 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Mon May 21 16:37:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522162854.03177960@redhotsweeps.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522162854.03177960@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <p05100308b72f3a9dd1b8@[192.168.1.5]>

>our marketing director has asked for a java applet on our home page to
>scroll "news." of course, she wants a free one. so i checked out the
>well-known one at http:/kimbat.org/java/TextScroll/TextScroll-HOWTO.html
>[...]
>i searched the evolt archives but found no recommendations. please offer
>URLs!

I haven't tried any of them personally, but earthweb's jars site had 
pages and pages of 'news ticker's when I just searched at:

http://www.jars.com/jars_search.html

The top one (Gutenberg) didn't look half bad.
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
http://www.thepander.co.nz/



From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Mon May 21 16:43:45 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Mon May 21 16:43:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28019DF7@flash>

>our marketing director has asked for a java applet on our home page to
>scroll "news." of course, she wants a free one. so i checked out the
>well-known one at http:/kimbat.org/java/TextScroll/TextScroll-HOWTO.html
>[...]
>i searched the evolt archives but found no recommendations. please offer
>URLs!

Here's an idea...Tell the marketing director NO WAY!  Java applets suck.

Better yet, gather up a bunch of reasons why applets suck:

	- slow to load
	- incompatible
	- crashes browsers
	- scroller applets look cheesy

Just because the higher-ups ask for it...you're the one who's going to be
responsible for replacing it (once users start complaining).  Following
orders doesn't abdicate responsibility...

Just a thought.

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)

	



From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Mon May 21 16:44:00 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Mon May 21 16:44:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Difference between <strong> and <b>
Message-ID: <200105212143.f4LLhu017733@leo.evolt.org>

------
It's surprising, but I've been using HTML for a significant portion of my life and I don't know the difference. I was reading the guidelines for article submissions to Evolt, and it was talking about <strong> defining structure and <b> defining style. The same went for <em> and <i> tags.

    What's the difference? Why is it important?
------
<strong> and <em> came first, then <b> and <i>, which became popular for use with the <font> tag. <font> has become depricated, possibly <b> and <i> will follow as <strong> and <em> more closely follow the origianl spirit if HTML and separating content from mark-up.

There is no real difference, except for that pesky habit of some browsers to employ one recommendation while another ignores recommendations all together.

On another note, you said, "I've been using HTML for a significant portion of my life." Are you really that young? :)

wwjbd...

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327

___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Mon May 21 16:50:55 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Mon May 21 16:50:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28019DF7@flash>
Message-ID: <02cf01c0e240$323dd030$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

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Hash: SHA1

> Better yet, gather up a bunch of reasons why applets suck:
...
> - incompatible

... as compared to what?

> - crashes browsers

all applets?

> - scroller applets look cheesy

all scroller applets?

> Just because the higher-ups ask for it...you're the one who's going
> to be responsible for replacing it (once users start complaining). 
> Following orders doesn't abdicate responsibility...

I doubt anyone will complain. I am no fan of java applets when other
solutions are available, but I don't agree with your reasons above
(other than "slow to load").

Personally, I'd show the benefits of other solutions rather than give
the higherups the "java applets suck" speech. Just a thought.



- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Mon May 21 16:52:56 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Mon May 21 16:52:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D28019DF8@flash>

<<
Personally, I'd show the benefits of other solutions rather than give
the higherups the "java applets suck" speech. Just a thought.
>>

Use a flash scroller.

Let the debate begin... ;)


	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon May 21 16:59:21 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Mon May 21 16:59:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL")
References: <20010521222042-r01010600-3a9ca19f@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <01ec01c0e242$70111320$2860398a@newcos.com>

Matt,

> No, but IE5/Mac Opera 5 and Mozilla/Netscape 6 is pretty good, and IE6
beta
> certainly supports P+P and I think that 5 and 5.5 do to - although I can't
> remember for certain.

    This kind of contextual selector won't work in *any* version of IE,
including the IE 6 beta. That's the big drawback.
    In IE 4+ you can use descendant selectors:

p span {
   font-weight: bold ;
}

...meaning that any <span> element that is a descendant of a <p> element
will, in this example, be bolded. But not child selectors (p > span) or
immediate predecessor selectors (p + span), or most of the other very
powerful selector types described in the CSS 2 recommendation. That is one
of the big weaknesses of IE's CSS implementation.

James Aylard




From alligotar at gmx.net  Mon May 21 17:02:56 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Mon May 21 17:02:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache 1.2.6 Q
References: <3B05B33E.C322CD9@gmx.net> <3B05B7B7.38262E7B@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <3B0990A2.4F358E6B@gmx.net>

Hassan,

> LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined
> LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" common
> LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer
> LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent

one question: can I add these lines add to the .htaccess-file or is
required that these lines are in the main server configuration section?

Thanks,

Jakob D?lling
-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From paola at limitless.co.uk  Mon May 21 17:03:31 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Mon May 21 17:03:31 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.)
References: <3B092C02.9443.B0EE285@localhost> <14ba01c0e229$67d14b80$40aefea9@DWARFS>
Message-ID: <3B099185.8D35ADAE@limitless.co.uk>

Elfur Logadottir wrote:
> hold on, why do I have to be lying if I say that [n] people are visiting my
> website now?
> 
> are you saying that there's no way to count that?
> 
> what about session variables?

Aha, a challenge!

I'd say you can't *definitively* (or practically) say how many
people are visiting your web site at any time because of "people"
and "now" in that statement.

The "people" means that what's visiting your site is a person
and not a robot.  Won't a robot trigger a new session?  You
may say you can recognise and remove robots from logs but you
would need to be maintaining a database robots on a *weekly*
if not daily basis, since that's how often new robots appear.

The "now" means that the visitor is *still* visiting your site.
Whereas, all you can really know is the last time someone (or
something) accessed your site within a session.

However, I do think that (server-side non-cookie) sessions
are a better way of counting visits (rather than using log
analysers).


Paola the Pedant



From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 17:10:51 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 17:10:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
References: <200105212143.f4LLhu017733@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c0e243$5f27bd60$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

> On another note, you said, "I've been using HTML for a significant portion
of my life." Are you really that young? :)

I'm 16, and I've been using HTML since I was 12 or 13 (although I wasn't
using it very well when I started :).

Why, how old are most people on this list?

---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com

<tip>
In php when checking for the existence of an integer variable, instead of
writing, if ($var), write, if (isset($var)).  If you just write the former,
it will return false if $var=0. On the other hand, the isset() function
check for the actual existence of a variable.
</tip>




From sgd at ti3.com  Mon May 21 17:12:16 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon May 21 17:12:16 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves sit
	e.)
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D6B@gate.ti3.com>

> The "people" means that what's visiting your site is a person
> and not a robot.  Won't a robot trigger a new session?  You
> may say you can recognise and remove robots from logs but you
> would need to be maintaining a database robots on a *weekly*
> if not daily basis, since that's how often new robots appear.

A robots.txt file should be used for these cases, and rfc compliant robots
will listen to it; hence no need to maintain a db.

ref: http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/norobots.html

sgd
--
think safely



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon May 21 17:24:31 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon May 21 17:24:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf 
 files)
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com> <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B099583.345E2313@avencom.com>

Jakob D?lling wrote:
> Morn:
> 
> Joe Crawford schrieb:
> >
> 
> > > With an NCSA-compatible server like Apache, you simply put a files
> > > in a special download-only directory, and stick an .htaccess file in
> > > that directory for each file type:
> > >     AddType application/octet-stream jpg
> > >     AddType application/octet-stream pdf
> > >
> > > Since the application/octet-stream MIME type is simply a stream of
> > > 8-bit data of unknown use, there aren't going to be any applications
> > > set up to open it. If you want to have fun, you can use
> > >     AddType application/evolt-download-only jpg
> > >     AddType application/evolt-download-only pdf
> > > or even
> > >     AddType be/mine jpg
> > >     AddType true/love pdf
> >
> > Is this going to work on IE/Windows? It's my understanding that IE makes
> > guesses about files with strange MIME types based on the extension. Have
> > you used this successfully? It's an interesting and clever shorthand  (I
> > like!) - but does it work to bring up the "prompt to save" box for most
> > browsers in a reliable way? And does doing it this way impact Macintosh?
> > It seems like feeding an unknown mime type might make it unviewable (to
> > most users) on the Mac side.
> 
> Joe,
> be calm, it will. This is not HTML as you might not noticed, these are
> instructions for *server* how it has to deliver data. If have installed
> Acrobat and you follow link that refers to pdf file, normally the
> browser plugin of Acrobat kicks in and displays the file. This is the
> default scenario. But if you tell your server to deliver as binary data,
> you'll be prompted in your browser where you would to store the files.
> That's the difference.
> 
> Hope you're satisfied,

Oh I'm calm, but what you suggested works only if browsers work as they
should.

Nope. Just tested it here:
	http://artlung.com/temp/mime/

added an .htaccess file with:
	AddType application/octet-stream gif
And a file:
	http://artlung.com/temp/mime/blogger-example.gif

And in IE5/WinNT it just shows the gif. No prompting.

Netscape 4, when viewing the URL, does a prompt box.

And I'm quite satisfied, I learned something new. That your solution,
while correct to the spec, is not how actual browsers work.

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



From alligotar at gmx.net  Mon May 21 17:40:57 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Mon May 21 17:40:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf 
 files)
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com> <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net> <3B099583.345E2313@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <3B099988.E8F133EA@gmx.net>

Joe,


> > > Is this going to work on IE/Windows? It's my understanding that IE makes
> > > guesses about files with strange MIME types based on the extension. Have
> > > you used this successfully? It's an interesting and clever shorthand  (I
> > > like!) - but does it work to bring up the "prompt to save" box for most
> > > browsers in a reliable way? And does doing it this way impact Macintosh?
> > > It seems like feeding an unknown mime type might make it unviewable (to
> > > most users) on the Mac side.
> >
> > Joe,
> > be calm, it will. This is not HTML as you might have noticed, these are
> > instructions for *server* how it has to deliver data. If have installed
> > Acrobat and you follow link that refers to pdf file, normally the
> > browser plugin of Acrobat kicks in and displays the file. This is the
> > default scenario. But if you tell your server to deliver as binary data,
> > you'll be prompted in your browser where you would to store the files.
> > That's the difference.
 

I think I know something what you will help: If you're installing win32
(which version exactly now it is I think doesn't matter), Windows has
associated gif and *.jpg files to IE - I don't know how to forbid
Windows to install IE. Did you tried the same thing with a *.jpeg file?

And, still something: Opera does the same as IE.

Regards,

Jakob D?lling
-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From colin at the-net-effect.com  Mon May 21 17:48:46 2001
From: colin at the-net-effect.com (Colin F Reynolds)
Date: Mon May 21 17:48:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] I should be flogged!
In-Reply-To: <200105211448.f4LEmH029501@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200105211448.f4LEmH029501@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <pNGyf5CuqZC7EwRG@the-net-effect.com>

On Mon, 21 May 2001 at 06:36:19, J. Blanchard
<jay.blanchard at thermon.com> wrote
>There are settings in Microsoft's Exchange Server which will also render 
>a duplicate of your message in html and place a "content type=text/html" 
>line in the header. So, even if you send plain text (as you have checked 
>and selected in the appropriate boxes in Outlook) there is a duplicate 
>of the message sent with html formating.

Good grief. Microsoft must REALLY want everyone to use emauls :(

<aside>
For the record, I use Turnpike - info at www.turnpike.com - emauls don't
trouble me personally.
<rant>
Their prevalence concerns me greatly, though (cf. "HomePage" and similar
viruses, which cause a great deal of harm: not to mention emaul bloat,
and the problems associated with the non-WYSIWYG environment...).
</rant>
</aside>
-- 
Colin Reynolds
"I know you believe you understand what you thought I said, but
I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant!"



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon May 21 17:49:31 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon May 21 17:49:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf 
 files)
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com> <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net> <3B099583.345E2313@avencom.com> <3B099988.E8F133EA@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B099B5E.9B7AB221@avencom.com>

Jakob D?lling wrote:
> I think I know something what you will help: If you're installing win32
> (which version exactly now it is I think doesn't matter), Windows has
> associated gif and *.jpg files to IE - I don't know how to forbid
> Windows to install IE. Did you tried the same thing with a *.jpeg file?
> 
> And, still something: Opera does the same as IE.

Quickie tests:
Netscape 4 - prompt box, Netscape 6, prompt box.
IE5, Opera 5.02, WebTV (!) viewer, all just display.

No, I didn't test jpg/jpeg files, but I am dubious it would make a
difference.

The thing is, my associations are what a typical installation would
have. And it doesn't work on a typical setup for the majority. The
theory is sound, but IE is being 'helpful' in a way that does not
necessarily make sense. :-\

I can't see telling people to change their file associations so I can
get a prompt dialogue.

Best,

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Mon May 21 17:50:31 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Mon May 21 17:50:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors
In-Reply-To: <01ec01c0e242$70111320$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <20010521234923-r01010600-bbe6699e@10.0.0.15>

On 21/5/01 at 3:07 pm, webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard) wrote:

>     This kind of contextual selector won't work in *any* version of IE,
> including the IE 6 beta. That's the big drawback.

I apologise - I just double-checked IE6 beta and it doesn't support E+F... I
don't know where I got the idea that it did from. I think I've been using
IE5/Mac too long.

> ....meaning that any <span> element that is a descendant of a <p> element
> will, in this example, be bolded. But not child selectors (p > span) or
> immediate predecessor selectors (p + span), or most of the other very
> powerful selector types described in the CSS 2 recommendation. That is one
> of the big weaknesses of IE's CSS implementation.

The trauma of IE5/PC and IE5.5/PC is still looming large in my mind, but IE6,
now it gets the box model right (if pushed), is much more useful. I'd assumed
some support for the basic contextual selectors, and I suppose we can hope for
the final release. It's still a little funny just how far apart the Mac and PC
development teams were able to get...

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'I could call this place Poohanpiglet Corner if Pooh Corner didn't 
sound better, which it does, being smaller and more like a corner.'



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon May 21 18:05:01 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon May 21 18:05:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
Message-ID: <01c0e248$4b92abc0$284a149a@rudy>

>Why, how old are most people on this list?

well, i can only speak for myself   ;o)

but please, no poll, okay?

or if you must, then please remember the web development tip on each post

rudy





From paola at limitless.co.uk  Mon May 21 18:10:11 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Mon May 21 18:10:11 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.)
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D64@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3B09A130.3C353536@limitless.co.uk>

Scott Dexter wrote:
> Statistics programs typically employ algorithms that consider how recently
> pages were viewed by individual ip addresses to come up with a "44 people
> are visiting" number.

Which stats programs are you referring to?

If you mean log analysers (to say how many people visited rather
than are visiting), I know that WebTrends, for instance, has no such
cleverness.  It defines a visit as an access from an IP address within
30 mins from the last access, by default
(see http://www.webtrends.com/support/hits_views_sessions.htm).

So WebTrends would say these (shortened) log lies of a single visit
describes 10 visits (each using MSIE 5.0 on Windows NT).

anchovy.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net    14:35   colour.html     -       Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
mozzarella.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net 14:36   216.html        /colour.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
ham.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net        14:36   33ccff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
anchovy.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net    14:37   3399ff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
fides.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net      14:37   33ffff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
pineapple.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net  14:37   66ffff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
green.uni.ac.uk        14:37   66ccff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
basil.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net      14:37   6699ff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net     14:37   0099ff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
anchovy.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net    14:38   ffccff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
mozzarella.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net 14:38   ffcc33.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
anchovy.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net    14:38   6600ff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
green.uni.ac.uk        14:38   ccffcc.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
mozzarella.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net 14:38   ccff66.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net     14:38   ccffff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
jalapeno.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net   14:38   ffffff.html /216.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
oregano.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net    14:39   216bg.html      /colour.html Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)

Server-side sessions would see this properly as one visit.

> A robots.txt file should be used for these cases, and rfc compliant robots
> will listen to it; hence no need to maintain a db.

Many, if not most, robots ignore robots.txt - that's because much
of the robot activity is initiated by individuals to collect e-mail
addresses from web pages (such as EmailSiphon), copy whole sites, to
copy images, pdfs, to search for specific content (such as sexsearcher)
or as offline browsers.  And many of those don't honour robots.txt

In any case, how is robots.txt relevant when being able to say how
many visitors one'e having or had?


Paola



From sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk  Mon May 21 18:11:46 2001
From: sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk (Sabrina Dent, Apperception)
Date: Mon May 21 18:11:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
References: <20010521224242.C8CADA11@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00f201c0e313$d539e980$1beb7bd5@sabrina>

> From: "Quicksilver" <qsfc at home.com>

> I'm 16, and I've been using HTML since I was 12 or 13 (although I wasn't
> using it very well when I started :).
>
> Why, how old are most people on this list?

Good God. I'm suddenly feeling a very ancient 29.

We have network admins and programmers working for us who are 20, 21 and
thereabouts.  I initially found it comical in interviews to ask someone who
is 20, "And how long have you been coding in Perl?"  I now find it just
plain frightening when the answer is "Eight years."

--Bri

<tip>
Browser Sizing (Testing)

Use bookmarklets from DreamInk to add shortcuts to your Favorites or
Bookmarks list and quickly view your pages at different, predefined,
standard resolutions in the same browser:

http://www.dreamink.com/design6.shtmlVhttp://www.dreamink.com/design6.shtml

1/3 of the way down :o)  Very useful for lazy folks like me.
</tip>




From bobd at members.evolt.org  Mon May 21 18:15:41 2001
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Mon May 21 18:15:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
In-Reply-To: <01c0e248$4b92abc0$284a149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <200105212315.f4LNFvx03491@chmls05.mediaone.net>

On Monday, May 21, 2001, at 06:49 PM, rudy wrote:

>> Why, how old are most people on this list?
>
> well, i can only speak for myself   ;o)
>
> but please, no poll, okay?
>
> or if you must, then please remember the web development tip on each 
> post

Actually, if you want to talk about this - you might use it for the 
excuse you needed to join up with thelist.

http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat
http://lists.evolt.org/thechatarchive/

To quote :

This is the evolt.org social mailing list - useful for discussion about 
how to tell whether someone's a witch (hint, if she weighs the same as a 
duck...), weather, what hockey's about, cat photos, evolt get-togethers 
etc etc etc.

Basically, if it's about web development, it belongs on thelist. If not, 
it's here. What's ontopic there is offtopic here & vice versa.

:)

bob
--
bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Mon May 21 19:08:47 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Mon May 21 19:08:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache 1.2.6 Q
References: <3B05B33E.C322CD9@gmx.net> <3B05B7B7.38262E7B@webtuitive.com> <3B0990A2.4F358E6B@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B09ADE2.604678B5@webtuitive.com>

Jakob D?lling wrote:

> > LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined
> > LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" common
> > LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer
> > LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent
> 
> one question: can I add these lines add to the .htaccess-file or is
> required that these lines are in the main server configuration section?

dunno - never thought about it :-)  but my impression looking at 
other directive comments in the httpd.conf file is that it's on a 
per-(virtual)-server basis rather than by directories ... 

Anyone else more familiar with this?
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ---(+1) 408-938-0567 --- http://www.webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From gozz at gozz.com  Mon May 21 21:11:12 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon May 21 21:11:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
Message-ID: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]>

 From the AOL Barf Department:

A friend took this screenshot of a gif for me from AOL - 
discoloration on a portion of the image:

<http://gozz.com/temporary/re/mn2.gif>

This is the original gif:
<http://gozz.com/temporary/re/images/mn_over.gif>

On the same computer, Netscape and IE display it fine.

Is there anything to do but sigh?

Can someone else confirm whether or not it's happens with their AOL 
<http://gozz.com/temporary/re/images/mn_over.gif>?
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From moni at teamsphere.com  Mon May 21 21:11:22 2001
From: moni at teamsphere.com (Moniruvwe Orife)
Date: Mon May 21 21:11:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance Proposal letter
In-Reply-To: <20010518223107.81F47E33@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <KGEBLFHELNIFONLFOJNCAEIJCBAA.moni@teamsphere.com>

When working as a freelance designer/devloper, (as I know a lot of the
people who read this have or currently are) the inital proposal/contact
letter is very important.  I've never actually used one of these, as the
communication for my past freelance work has always primarily vocal.  In any
case, I have to do one of these now & it's a little intimidating because I
want to make a good impression.
The client is in the business of firearms/fireworks (is this why i want to
make a good impression? ;)  ) and currently has a static 1st generation
website that primarily comprises a parts/price listing.

I know I want to cover certain areas,
- initiate conversation about the purpose & functionality of the site
(perhaps by suggestion & showing him other similar websites)
- initiate conversation about the look & feel (again, perhaps by suggestion)
- technical aspects such as domain name registration and website hosting
- a small note about the benefits of a well designed website (first
impression, design, content, usability, credibility, etc.)
- discuss pricing

That's what i'm thinking right now.  Did I leave anything out?  Do you have
any suggestions?  Do you have any sample letters that i can take a look at?

Thanks.

	- moni




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 21:25:22 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 21:25:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
References: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <000d01c0e266$effdc0a0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

> Is there anything to do but sigh?

I don't think so... while I'm at my grandparents' house and using the AOL
browser, I notice that it does some funny stuff with images... they usually
look garbled and compressed.

*sigh*




From gozz at gozz.com  Mon May 21 21:29:52 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Mon May 21 21:29:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance Proposal letter
In-Reply-To: <KGEBLFHELNIFONLFOJNCAEIJCBAA.moni@teamsphere.com>
References: <KGEBLFHELNIFONLFOJNCAEIJCBAA.moni@teamsphere.com>
Message-ID: <p0431010bb72f7ca4fc86@[192.168.1.100]>

I'd say the best thing would be to make half of it about your Luger 
and another third about your French Revolution ball and cock rifle.

No, seriously, I don't if I would open up with a lot of discussion 
about what the client wants - they're hiring you to make a good 
website, not the website they think they want ... perhaps try to find 
out about their target audience instead. That would be my suggestion.

>The client is in the business of firearms/fireworks (is this why i want to
>make a good impression? ;)  ) and currently has a static 1st generation
>website that primarily comprises a parts/price listing.
>
>I know I want to cover certain areas,
>- initiate conversation about the purpose & functionality of the site
>(perhaps by suggestion & showing him other similar websites)
>- initiate conversation about the look & feel (again, perhaps by suggestion)
>- technical aspects such as domain name registration and website hosting
>- a small note about the benefits of a well designed website (first
>impression, design, content, usability, credibility, etc.)
>- discuss pricing
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From hblair at bigfoot.com  Mon May 21 21:54:57 2001
From: hblair at bigfoot.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Mon May 21 21:54:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
In-Reply-To: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJGEOMKCAA.hblair@bigfoot.com>

Both of these links look the same to me on this LCD.
Sorry, but my AOL is down so I can't use it for a direct
look at the issue.

-Hugh

> A friend took this screenshot of a gif for me from AOL - 
> discoloration on a portion of the image:
> <http://gozz.com/temporary/re/mn2.gif>
> 
> This is the original gif:
> <http://gozz.com/temporary/re/images/mn_over.gif>




From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Mon May 21 21:57:07 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Mon May 21 21:57:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] auto-replacing links (was: Pop-up when user leaves site)
In-Reply-To: <003a01c0e21c$ac19af60$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNEEEFDKAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>


>>>> Now, I have a question.  Is it possible to write a JavaScript function
>>>that
>>>> will automatically change every link on a page to point to
>>>somewhere else
>>>> (just like "index.jhtml").  It would be pain to do this manually...


sure - its easy if you want to make the same replacement in every link ie -
foo.html to foo.Jhtml.

all you need to do is access the links object, cycle through it and change
the href, either using pattern matching or whatever.
Depending upon platform etc you may need cross browser code.  below find
some code for latest gen browsers :

function changeLinks () {
var links = document.getElementsByTagname("A");
for (i=0; i<links.length; i++) {
	insert code to identify and replace strings here
}

hth

MarkC


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From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon May 21 22:11:32 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon May 21 22:11:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
In-Reply-To: <003201c0e201$0d168c00$3601a8c0@tatooine>
Message-ID: <3B099FBF.22388.386B4300@localhost>

> From: "skamp" <evolt at befrance.com>
> 
> Ahem... sorry for asking, but what's wrong with HTML in e-mails ? I'm
> just asking for your opinion, that's all. I don't know if that kind of
> question should be answered off-list ?

Why Developers Don't Want HTML Email
http://evolt.org/article/list/25/781/index.html



From jmorehead at digitalIMS.com  Mon May 21 22:12:42 2001
From: jmorehead at digitalIMS.com (Jason Morehead)
Date: Mon May 21 22:12:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c0e266$effdc0a0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
References: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]>
 <000d01c0e266$effdc0a0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <f05001900b72f89812717@[207.91.25.33]>

>  > Is there anything to do but sigh?
>
>I don't think so... while I'm at my grandparents' house and using the AOL
>browser, I notice that it does some funny stuff with images... they usually
>look garbled and compressed.

yeah, we've run into this problem from time to time.  a client will 
call in complaining about how their website looks, and sure enough, 
they're using aol.  i wonder if there's any documentation on this on 
aol's site.

jason
-- 
digital IMS
http://www.digitalIMS.com/
201 n 14th - lincoln, ne 68508 - 402.437.0100



From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 22:39:43 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Mon May 21 22:39:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS5 DNS
In-Reply-To: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost>
Message-ID: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBEEKOCEAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

I am trying to create DNS entries in my cold fusion code.  What I want to do
is make the web site and then create the DNS entry so I can have an "instant
activation" web hosting service.  Does anybody know how to do this?
Thank you,
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From qsfc at home.com  Mon May 21 23:47:48 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Mon May 21 23:47:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a font: "Myriad"
Message-ID: <001301c0e27a$dbe85da0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

Does anyone know where I could find the font called "Myriad"? It's the
sans-serif one that's used extensively in the images at Adobe's website, I
think it may even be made by Adobe...

If you have it and it's not a commercial font, could you e-mail it to me?

Thanks,
---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon May 21 23:50:08 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon May 21 23:50:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
References: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]> <000d01c0e266$effdc0a0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com> <f05001900b72f89812717@[207.91.25.33]>
Message-ID: <02da01c0e27a$cea6cfa0$6e0f9ad8@mef>

Yes there is .. not sure how helpful it is tho. 

http://webinfo.aol.com/

under graphic info

HTH

Michele

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Morehead" <jmorehead at digitalIMS.com>

| yeah, we've run into this problem from time to time.  a client will 
| call in complaining about how their website looks, and sure enough, 
| they're using aol.  i wonder if there's any documentation on this on 
| aol's site.





From paola at limitless.co.uk  Tue May 22 00:07:48 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Tue May 22 00:07:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Looking for a font: "Myriad"
References: <001301c0e27a$dbe85da0$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B09F4D5.D058E0C6@limitless.co.uk>

Quicksilver wrote:
> Does anyone know where I could find the font called "Myriad"? It's the
> sans-serif one that's used extensively in the images at Adobe's website, I
> think it may even be made by Adobe...

It is an Adobe font.  You can buy fonts for $22 each from
Phil's Fonts: http://www.philsfonts.com/ which has Myriad MM,
Myriad Condensed and Myriad Wild families.

You can also search for and buy fonts from the Adobe site:
http://www.adobe.com/type/ - it has loads more Myriad fonts.

And, while I'm at it, another nice font site is
http://www.will-harris.com/


Paola




From persist1 at io.com  Tue May 22 01:08:53 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Tue May 22 01:08:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance Proposal letter
In-Reply-To: <p0431010bb72f7ca4fc86@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105220101440.29788-100000@fnord.io.com>

On Mon, 21 May 2001, Erik Mattheis wrote:

> No, seriously, I don't if I would open up with a lot of discussion 
> about what the client wants - they're hiring you to make a good 
> website, not the website they think they want ... perhaps try to find 
> out about their target audience instead. That would be my suggestion.

I second this opinion...

In effect, it's a process of making the needs assessment the MOU/contract
as well.

Target Audience
Demographics (if available)
Outline of possible architectures
Scope
Out-of-scope
Schedule
Likely budget
Addenda

A client cares about two things:  what's he getting, and what he's paying
for it.  If those two things can be laid out as statements-of-fact
(viz. "I will build something that is well-suited to your audience") -
even if they're really not - that's usually enough to get approval.

Where you may run into problems is if, by providing too much detail, you
come across as being worth more than the client feels they can afford (see
the "Jackass" thread from last month as a possible example).  That outcome
deserves a thread of its own, however.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From m at pleonasm.com  Tue May 22 02:27:18 2001
From: m at pleonasm.com (Matt)
Date: Tue May 22 02:27:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
In-Reply-To: <p04310109b72f72eeb483@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010522092521.0079d770@pleonasm.com>

Erik Mattheis wrote:
>
> A friend took this screenshot of a gif for me from AOL - 
> discoloration on a portion of the image:
> <http://gozz.com/temporary/re/mn2.gif>

As others have noted, The default setting on AOL is for graphics to be
compressed, presumably to reduce server load. This became a real problem on
on site I was involved in, where the quality of the graphics was of
paramount importance; many people using AOL complained about the
blotchiness of the photos, although the originals were crystal clear.

What we did was put some browser-sniffing JavaScript in each page, so that
if the browser was AOL, a small link would appear beneath the photos (which
were only on one side of each page), saying "AOL users click here."
Clicking would make a small window pop up, containing gentle instructions
on how users could improve the appearance of graphics on this and all other
sites. When AOL 6 came out, the method of turning off decompression
changed, so there were then two sets of instructions. {sigh}

The JavaScript was (simplified):

function adviseAOL() {
   if (navigator.appVersion.indexOf('AOL') != -1) {     // i.e. if AOL
browser is being used
      *** make your browser do whatever you want here ***
   }
}

I'm not a JavaScript expert and didn't code this; this is more for
illustration. I hope there isn't a flaw in it. Of course it won't work if
JavaScript is disabled, but maybe you can't disable JavaScript in AOL?

Anyway, it worked pretty well - we asked people about it, and a lot of AOL
users said they followed the instructions and turned off graphics
decompression. I'm sure some didn't, but they can't say they weren't advised.

HTH ... Matt




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 03:22:34 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 03:22:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL"
Message-ID: <LAW2-F29siIWeTlhxvz0000aafb@hotmail.com>

> > with the following paragraphs having an indent, *and* you don't want to 
>use a lot of nasty class attributes to do it, CSS2 contextual selectors 
>provide an easy way....
></snippet>
>
>     ...Provided that you understand that it will work in few browsers 
>currently in use (Netscape 6.x and Opera 3+). It will *not* work in any 
>version of IE, up to and including IE 6 PP1 -- nor, unsurprisingly, in 
>Netscape 4.x.

Some of them do work in IE5 Mac, which is much more advanced than any 
Windows version when it comes to CSS2. For compatibility with CSS2, see my 
test site

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/css2tests/

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 03:30:54 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 03:30:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
Message-ID: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>

>P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }

Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often but I don't 
have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 18pt?

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 03:50:49 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 03:50:49 2001
Subject: State or Confusion (was:RE: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves sit e.)
Message-ID: <LAW2-F13SkXlVg2R2ck00012af6@hotmail.com>

>Thanks, err, Mr. Koch. (How shall I address you, sir?)

Eventually everyone end up saying 'ppk', though I admit 'Mr. Koch' is rather 
stylish <g>.

>I might think, then, that the security mechanism is what is prohibitive 
>about reading it out.

Yes, this is a security feature. The purpose is to prevent reading out too 
much information about the user. If the mechanism weren't there, I could 
easily write a script that goes through the other open browser windows, 
notes what pages are shown and thus allow me to create a profile of the user 
and sell it to advertisers. No go.

>So, generally speaking, it would seem that site-experience management is 
>not very well developed in the web model.

What do you mean by 'site-experience'?

>As deke points out in his latest post, the web is stateless. What I wonder 
>is the usefulness of capturing the transition from one site to another.

At the very beginning of the WWW, it was determined that the HTTP protocol 
would be state-less, which basically means that it doesn't remember 
anything. Any HTTP request that asks for a page, is new to the server.

Meanwhile cookies and session variables have been invented to allow one 
server to keep track of what a visitor has done, but this doesn't work 
cross-domain. Besides, as you will note, this is an extra feature built on 
top of the statelessness of the WWW.

>Perhaps in terms of security, privacy, credibility, etc., it may be useful 
>to know of transitions from and to other sites. But, wait, maybe this is 
>where third-party certification steps in...

 From a privacy point of view this is *not* useful to know, it actively 
endangers privacy as we see it now.

As to security, you shouldn't let your security model hinge on where a user 
comes from. Passwords and such are a much better idea.

Credibility: don't know what you mean.

Anyway, this whole model is based on the statelessness of HTTP. 
Statelessness wasn't invented to protect privacy, it was done to keep the 
tasks of a WWW server simple, but it serves rather well in protecting 
privacy.

>BTW, is this level of <euphemism>abstract thinking</euphemism> allowed in 
>this list?

I should hope so!

ppk
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From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Tue May 22 03:52:34 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Tue May 22 03:52:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0105220951420.5337-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

> 
> >P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
>
> Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often but I don't 
> have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 18pt?


12pt is the font size, 18pt is the line-height or leading. It's just a
shorthand way to write it

Simon




From m at pleonasm.com  Tue May 22 03:54:49 2001
From: m at pleonasm.com (Matt)
Date: Tue May 22 03:54:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010522105249.007bc100@pleonasm.com>

ppk wrote:
>
>>P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
>
>Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often but I don't 
>have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 18pt?

12pt (12 points) is the height of the text itself. 18pt (18 points) is the
line height. Generally, text is more easy to read with a bit of breathing
space above and below it, so it's often nice to set this with CSS.

In this case, the difference between 18 and 12 is 6. These 6 points are
distributed evenly below and above the text. So, the text is 12 points
high, with 3 points of empty space above and 3 points of empty space below:
total line-height = 18 points.

Line-height can also be expressed as a percentage (e.g. 12pt/150%), which
generally allows for better font scaling as the base font size change.

Matt




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 03:57:19 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 03:57:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
Message-ID: <LAW2-F134ixqDCZx4FR000129f5@hotmail.com>

> > >P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
> >
> > Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often but I 
>don't have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 
>18pt?
>
>
>12pt is the font size, 18pt is the line-height or leading. It's just a
>shorthand way to write it

Right! Useful... Thanks.

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Tue May 22 03:59:54 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Tue May 22 03:59:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNKEEIDKAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

ppk,

not absolutely sure about this, but I think as follows.

in your eg of 12/pt/18pt what happens is that you get a 12pt font, but 18pt
line height - effectively you are increasing distances between lines.

haven't tried it myself but as i'm curious now i'll go and try it!

MarkC
>>>
>>>>P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
>>>
>>>Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often
>>>but I don't
>>>have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 18pt?
>>>
>>>ppk

>>>


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From evolt at befrance.com  Tue May 22 04:40:29 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Tue May 22 04:40:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)
References: <3B099FBF.22388.386B4300@localhost>
Message-ID: <004f01c0e2a3$26aea420$3601a8c0@tatooine>

----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] HTML in mails (was : I should be flogged)


> Why Developers Don't Want HTML Email
> http://evolt.org/article/list/25/781/index.html

Interesting article. As someone already said it, you really ARE efficient
people :)
I invite you to read my comment on it
[ http://evolt.org/article/view/25/781/index.html#comment10605 ].

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266




From web at master.gen.in.us  Tue May 22 05:07:05 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Tue May 22 05:07:05 2001
Subject: Session variables (was: [thelist] Pop-up when user leaves site.)
In-Reply-To: <14ba01c0e229$67d14b80$40aefea9@DWARFS>
Message-ID: <3B0A0334.4993.E57A14D@localhost>

On 21 May 2001, at 19:08, Elfur Logadottir posted a message which said:

> hold on, why do I have to be lying if I say that 44 people are visiting my
> website now?
 
> are you saying that there's no way to count that?

Right. 

There's no dining room at a website - it's all carryout. There 
aren't even any *pages* at a website. Your browser builds 
the pages from the instructions in HTML files and GIF files 
and JPG files, etc. 

If I grab a page from SiteA at 2:00, another at 2:04, and
another at 2:08, that *might* mean that I spend 4 minutes
per page, and I was busy reading their pages from 2:00 to
2:12. 

Or I might be watching television. I look at each page for 3
seconds, decide there's nothing of interest on that page, and
click on a link to check out another page, and go back to 
television, while I wait for another page to arrive. Hell, that's
one of the reasons I like WebTV so much. When I use the
Windows puter or the Linux puter, I don't get a TV picture in 
the corner of the screen to watch while waiting for bloated
pages to be retrieved and rendered.

And the webmaster has *no* idea whether someone was
at his site for the eight minutes between the first and last
click plus another four minutes afterwards, or if I was 
looking at his pages for a total of nine seconds.

deke













 
> what about session variables?
> 
> *the puzzled one*
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 


------------------------
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  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From jillshaw at email.com  Tue May 22 05:12:19 2001
From: jillshaw at email.com (Jill Shaw)
Date: Tue May 22 05:12:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
Message-ID: <382180267.990526344749.JavaMail.root@web176-ec>

Hi there

I joined the list a few weeks ago and have found it really useful - Thanks
everyone!

I have two questions about UltraDev - one general, one more specific.

1. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for help
with Dreamweaver UltraDev - books or sites. I have been using Dreamweaver
for about 1 and a half years, so I'm pretty competent with it, but the
UltraDev side of things has me terrified!

2. I'm developing a site using a SQL server database which has stored
procedures already set up and at the minute am muddling through login/logout
facilities. Is it possible to store information between pages without using
session variables (cookies)?

Thanks in advance,
Jill

Jill Shaw
Web Developer
Northern Ireland
-----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com





From web at master.gen.in.us  Tue May 22 05:24:25 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Tue May 22 05:24:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0105220951420.5337-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B0A0752.6443.E67B54F@localhost>

On 22 May 2001, at 9:52, Simon Coggins posted a message which said:

> > >P { font: 12pt/18pt a font; text-indent: 0; }
> > Can anyone explain the 12pt/18pt bit above? I've seen it often but I don't 
> > have the faintest idea what it means. When do you get 12pt and when 18pt?
 
> 12pt is the font size, 18pt is the line-height or leading. It's just a
> shorthand way to write it

<quibble>
Line height and leading are *not* the same thing. In 
this example, 18 points is the line-height, and the 
leading is 6 points.

Originally, leading was strips of lead inserted between 
lines of type. Later, they automated this - a linotype or 
monotype could cast an 18-point slug using 12-point 
matrices. 

If you ask for 12 point type with 18 points leading, you
are specifying a line height of 30 points. You're not 
likely to get the wrong product back from a type 
house - they are accustomed to dealing with the
typographically-illiterate - but you get more respect if
you use terminology correctly.
</quibble>

deke





------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Tue May 22 05:33:20 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Tue May 22 05:33:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] php custom error handling
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAEEHODLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <000201c0e2aa$f12008a0$e399043e@r3g4p8>

There were some discussions and the conclusion was that the 404 page should
be bigger than 512bytes or something like this. As it is a redirect, I don't
know why it doesn't work.

Anyway, this kind of thing could be handled by a simple mod_rewrite
directive without the need of php code or 404. I'm pretty sure that if you
use a custom 404 page, you'll have all your logs to this page for instance.

Mod_rewrite is imho somewhat more elegant...

Philippe

> but, it isn't happening. try it...
> http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/grounds should hit the script on
badurl.php,
> then redirect to http://www.sugarbeachresort.net?page=grounds , it
> doesn't...just gives me a real generic 404 page.




From dreamweaver at vtco.com  Tue May 22 05:39:40 2001
From: dreamweaver at vtco.com (Dreamweaver)
Date: Tue May 22 05:39:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
References: <382180267.990526344749.JavaMail.root@web176-ec>
Message-ID: <00fb01c0e2ab$832503e0$050000c1@elmo>

Hi Jill,

I would recommend that you visit the Macromedia Dreamweaver UltraDev online
forum, here you will find a wealth of solutions and additional resources.

<http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/>

You can also serach for previous post at
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&group=macromedia.ultrade
v>

HTH

Regards
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jill Shaw" <jillshaw at email.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev


> Hi there
>
> I joined the list a few weeks ago and have found it really useful - Thanks
> everyone!
>
> I have two questions about UltraDev - one general, one more specific.
>
> 1. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for
help
> with Dreamweaver UltraDev - books or sites. I have been using Dreamweaver
> for about 1 and a half years, so I'm pretty competent with it, but the
> UltraDev side of things has me terrified!
>
> 2. I'm developing a site using a SQL server database which has stored
> procedures already set up and at the minute am muddling through
login/logout
> facilities. Is it possible to store information between pages without
using
> session variables (cookies)?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Jill
>
> Jill Shaw
> Web Developer
> Northern Ireland
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From nick.myers at net.ntl.com  Tue May 22 05:43:50 2001
From: nick.myers at net.ntl.com (Nick Myers)
Date: Tue May 22 05:43:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
References: <20010522102618.B7FF2AB4@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000701c0e2ac$5c54fda0$0100a8c0@NickMyers>

Firstly, don't be scared of Ultradev, as a program, all it does is add a
couple more panel and menu options to Dreamweaver - but boy are those
options useful.  You might find some of things you want do fall outside of
Ultradev's utilities - but you can usually get by.

A tutorial I've used a few times can be found at:
http://www.hiran.desilva.com/ultradev/

Or you could try any of the following (straight out of my bookmarks :o):

http://www.macromedia.com/support/ultradev/tutorial.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~rcurtis/ultradev/
http://www.ultradevguru.com/
http://www.udzone.com/

And because it's a great site related to Dreamweaver:

http://www.projectseven.com/dreamweaver/

Hope they help!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Message: 32
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 06:12:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jill Shaw <jillshaw at email.com>
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> Hi there
>
> I joined the list a few weeks ago and have found it really useful - Thanks
> everyone!
>
> I have two questions about UltraDev - one general, one more specific.
>
> 1. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for
help
> with Dreamweaver UltraDev - books or sites. I have been using Dreamweaver
> for about 1 and a half years, so I'm pretty competent with it, but the
> UltraDev side of things has me terrified!
>
> 2. I'm developing a site using a SQL server database which has stored
> procedures already set up and at the minute am muddling through
login/logout
> facilities. Is it possible to store information between pages without
using
> session variables (cookies)?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Jill
>
> Jill Shaw
> Web Developer
> Northern Ireland
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com




From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Tue May 22 05:45:05 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Tue May 22 05:45:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <3B0A0752.6443.E67B54F@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0105221141040.5337-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

> Line height and leading are *not* the same thing. In 
> this example, 18 points is the line-height, and the 
> leading is 6 points.

Yikes - my typographical illiteracy has been exposed for all to see! I've
only just managed to train myself to say LED-ing rather than LEE-ding, so
at least I'm making some progress!

Thanks for the clarification,

Simon





From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Tue May 22 05:48:40 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue May 22 05:48:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
References: <382180267.990526344749.JavaMail.root@web176-ec>
Message-ID: <002801c0e2ad$136f6160$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi Jill

I haven't used UltraDev, and I'm tempted to have a look at it, but having
seen some of the code it generates I don't think it's going to feature
heavily in my tool bag.  So I can't help you with the books, but I can help
you with the second question (assuming you're using ASP).

There are a number of methods for storing information between pages which
don't rely on session variables.  As you pointed out Cookies are one of
them.  Session variables and cookies are very close in nature.  In order to
use session variables the server writes a cookie to the browser with their
session identifier in it.  This has some overheads - the variables are kept
in memory on the server, and they aren't destroyed as soon as the browser
leaves the site.  They could hang around for, typically, 20mins.  So cookies
are superiour from that point of view, however there are security
implications.

The other method of passing information from page to page is via the
querystring.  So you've got a client logged into your site, and you want to
store their name details.  What you'd do is dynamically build all the links
to include this information in the querystring, then on each page you'd
access the querystring.  For example say you had a link like so

<a href="login_page.asp">

You'd change it to this

<a href="login_page.asp?firstname=Jill&surname=Shaw">

Then to get those values you'd use

firstName = request.querystring("firstname")
surname = request.querystring("surname")

And you'd dynamically produce each link on the site like so:

response.write "<a href=""another_page.asp?firstname=" & firstName &
"&surname=" & surname & """>"

There are pros and cons to each method, I prefer to use cookies to transfer
information on the grounds that there's less server overhead, so pages get
served faster.

Norman





From alister at cameroncreative.com  Tue May 22 05:54:20 2001
From: alister at cameroncreative.com (Alister Cameron)
Date: Tue May 22 05:54:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] free of cheap CMS in ASP??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0105221141040.5337-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBLKMKPBDAHLEBFHMDIEDADEAA.alister@cameroncreative.com>

Hi folks.

Looking for a free or cheap content management system written in ASP that I
can run on my W2K server. I have clients asking for it and there may be some
good $$ for it soon. But I am interested in finding out what's out there,
basically.

Fact is, I have spent hours looking for stuff and I find it hard to believe
I have to spend thousands and thousands to get what I want!

I'd like something like Frontier, but written in ASP/VBS of course. A
codebase would be enough since clients always want stuff customised... but
all the open source stuff like eGrail is in either Perl, PHP or anything but
ASP!!

So, anyone seen anything that turns heads?

I know the ultimate would be NCompass Resolution - so good that MS just
bought it and are re-badging it as "MS Content Management Server" as part of
the .NET family. That's USD$50,000 or so, last time I looked. So forget that
for now!

Love to know what's out there and what's HOT!

Thanks.

Alister Cameron
Cameron Creative




From jjsolari at pobox.com  Tue May 22 05:58:30 2001
From: jjsolari at pobox.com (J.J.SOLARI)
Date: Tue May 22 05:58:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
Message-ID: <20010522125840-r01010600-618129b1@10.0.1.52>

On Mon, 21 May 2001 21:11:05 -0500, Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com> wrote:

>From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
>Subject: [thelist] AOL gif compression glitch?
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
> From the AOL Barf Department:
>
>A friend took this screenshot of a gif for me from AOL - 
>discoloration on a portion of the image:
>
><http://gozz.com/temporary/re/mn2.gif>
>
>This is the original gif:
><http://gozz.com/temporary/re/images/mn_over.gif>
>
>On the same computer, Netscape and IE display it fine.
>
>Is there anything to do but sigh?

Erik,

I'm afraid there is not much we can do about it.

But I have read in a mailinglist (this one may be) that one could prevent AOL
stuff from sabotaging standard gifs in turning them into animated gifs as no
compression occurs with such files.

You would achieve this by adding an empty frame to your gif with tools like
GraphicConverter (Macintosh). Sorry don't know any software on Windows platform.

hih,

JJS.
-- 
personal site <http://www.yoyodesign.org/>
public key id: 9eb99ddb <http://www.keyserver.net/>



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 06:23:40 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue May 22 06:23:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS5 DNS
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIHDFELLFIAIMICMBEEKOCEAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ANEHKEMJEMCODFCKMFJGEELBDAAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
> Sent: 22 May 2001 04:37
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] IIS5 DNS
> 
> 
> I am trying to create DNS entries in my cold fusion code.  What I 
> want to do
> is make the web site and then create the DNS entry so I can have 
> an "instant
> activation" web hosting service.  Does anybody know how to do this?

Didn't we answer this last week?

If you're not happy with MS DNS Server, try another DNS server. I'm
certain that at least one of the alternatives won't require you to
stop the DNS service.

I also distinctly recall mentioning getting hold of STARTSVC.EXE
and STOPSVC.EXE.  If you *must* use the MS DNS server, write
a batch file which stops and restarts the DNS service, then run
it at the end of your registration process (or every x minutes
with the AT command or WinCron).

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 06:28:40 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue May 22 06:28:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] free of cheap CMS in ASP??
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLKMKPBDAHLEBFHMDIEDADEAA.alister@cameroncreative.com>
Message-ID: <ANEHKEMJEMCODFCKMFJGKELBDAAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Alister Cameron
> Sent: 22 May 2001 11:55
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] free of cheap CMS in ASP??
> 
> 
> Hi folks.
> 
> Looking for a free or cheap content management system written in 
> ASP that I
> can run on my W2K server. 

[snip]

> but
> all the open source stuff like eGrail is in either Perl, PHP or 
> anything but
> ASP!!

Not quite a direct answer, but given that you're obviously
loking for something 'off the shelf', why not Perl or PHP?
Both run just fine on Win32 - in fact, Activestate Perl on
IIS is an amazingly solid (and fast) app platform.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 



From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Tue May 22 06:41:15 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Tue May 22 06:41:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <3B0A0752.6443.E67B54F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010522123913-r01010600-1dc5ad2b@10.0.0.15>

On 22/5/01 at 6:29 am, web at master.gen.in.us (deke ) wrote:

> Line height and leading are *not* the same thing. In 
> this example, 18 points is the line-height, and the 
> leading is 6 points.

You're absolutely right, which is why Quark chose to call line-height (or
line-feed from photo-typesetting, or interlinear space (baseline-to-baseline) if
you're in my department) leading. Typographic terminology is hacked together: it
still hasn't quite recovered from the switch away from bits of metal. If you
think that leading is odd, you should read about the history of the point, which
has had many different values in different places. It was only standardised by
Adobe, who made it different to everyone else's and didn't tell anyone...

Matt

Anyway, points in screen typography are kind of an odd concept. Use relative
units instead.

<tip>With relative units and line heights you may find that specifying a
line-height in ems does something very strange indeed. The font-size of an
element specified in ems is derived relative to its parent, so a font-size of
1.2em equates to 12pt when the parent's font-size is 10pt. But, the size of all
other lengths in ems is derived from its own font-size. So, a line-height of 2em
in an element with a font-size of 1.2em is actually 2x1.2, or 2.4 times the
original size (10pt -> 24pt) rather than 2x (10pt -> 20pt). 

Are you confused yet? I am. However, you can specify line-height with just a
numeral, which has the exact same effect as specifying in ems, but doesn't have
the attendant confusion of thinking that the unit is relative to something it
isn't:

If you want a line-height of 1.2em (compared to a para's parent) when it has a
font-size of 1.2em, i.e. you want the line 'set solid' where the font-size and
line-height are the same font: 1.2em/1 looks a lot more sensible than font:
1.2em/1em, IMHO. Since I started doing this i've stopped wondering why my
headings (font-size: 2.5em;) with a line-height of 2.5em (thinks - 2.5em = 2.5em
= set solid) have huge gaps between lines... (thinks - 2.5em/2.5 = big gaps
between lines). Well, it works for me anyway...</tip>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Yes,' said Eeyore. 'However,' he said, brightening up a little, 
'we haven't had an Earthquake lately.'



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 07:03:25 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Tue May 22 07:03:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] When does "bought code" become your own ?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBKNMLALPBELAKCMPKOEICCKAA.jkmcnulty@mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPGELNCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

As I recall earlier in this thread she said the client paid for the license
for the code and paid her to modify it. So the client owns the original
license and the mods. She doesn't own any of it. She was paid to modify
someone else's code, so the client bought her code from her. End of story...

Thanks,
Ron White





From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Tue May 22 07:31:35 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Tue May 22 07:31:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103E4@usnapsmail.asg.com>

Norman said:
"I haven't used UltraDev, and I'm tempted to have a look at it, but having
seen some of the code it generates I don't think it's going to feature
heavily in my tool bag. "

What is wrong with the code it generates? It is by far the cleanest of any
WYSIWYG editor I have seen.

And even if you don't like the way it codes, you can modify the coding
properties to make it fit your coding style.

DM

-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Beresford [mailto:n.beresford at anansi.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:51 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] UltraDev


Hi Jill

I haven't used UltraDev, and I'm tempted to have a look at it, but having
seen some of the code it generates I don't think it's going to feature
heavily in my tool bag.  So I can't help you with the books, but I can help
you with the second question (assuming you're using ASP).

There are a number of methods for storing information between pages which
don't rely on session variables.  As you pointed out Cookies are one of
them.  Session variables and cookies are very close in nature.  In order to
use session variables the server writes a cookie to the browser with their
session identifier in it.  This has some overheads - the variables are kept
in memory on the server, and they aren't destroyed as soon as the browser
leaves the site.  They could hang around for, typically, 20mins.  So cookies
are superiour from that point of view, however there are security
implications.

The other method of passing information from page to page is via the
querystring.  So you've got a client logged into your site, and you want to
store their name details.  What you'd do is dynamically build all the links
to include this information in the querystring, then on each page you'd
access the querystring.  For example say you had a link like so

<a href="login_page.asp">

You'd change it to this

<a href="login_page.asp?firstname=Jill&surname=Shaw">

Then to get those values you'd use

firstName = request.querystring("firstname")
surname = request.querystring("surname")

And you'd dynamically produce each link on the site like so:

response.write "<a href=""another_page.asp?firstname=" & firstName &
"&surname=" & surname & """>"

There are pros and cons to each method, I prefer to use cookies to transfer
information on the grounds that there's less server overhead, so pages get
served faster.

Norman



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From shanx at shanx.com  Tue May 22 07:35:40 2001
From: shanx at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Tue May 22 07:35:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] XPDF for Solaris/SunOS?
Message-ID: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIAEOHGMAA.shanx@shanx.com>

Am going out on a limb here...would anyone happen to have an executable
version of XPDF compiled for the Solaris or SunOS platforms?

Thanks a bunch in advance
-Shanx



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From GregHolmes at aol.com  Tue May 22 07:38:10 2001
From: GregHolmes at aol.com (GregHolmes at aol.com)
Date: Tue May 22 07:38:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
Message-ID: <3e.c15da44.283bb719@aol.com>

>I have been using Dreamweaver
>for about 1 and a half years, so I'm pretty competent with it, but the
>UltraDev side of things has me terrified!

The only thing terrifying about things like UltraDev is that they can make you think you know how to program, then leave you in a quagmire when you are trying to figure out why things are not working ;)

Seriously, I would just make sure you actually learn ColdFusion (or whatever you are using UltraDev for) first, or at least along side.  Basically (if I remember right from evaluating it) UltraDev just gives you wizards and such for creating queries and bits of code, attached to "objects" on the web page.  If you know the underlying language, it is fairly easy and sometimes helpful to use.  If not, you are going to be mystified when (inevitably) some automated thing doesn't work as expected.

Greg Holmes
gregholmes at aol.com



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 07:40:15 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Tue May 22 07:40:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] XPDF for Solaris/SunOS?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIAEOHGMAA.shanx@shanx.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPCELPCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Have you tried http://sunfreeware.com??

Thanks,
Ron White 

> XPDF compiled for the Solaris or SunOS platforms?





From alexgillen at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 07:43:50 2001
From: alexgillen at earthlink.net (Alessandra Gillen)
Date: Tue May 22 07:43:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] streaming ... security risk?
Message-ID: <3B0A5EFA.BCF87548@earthlink.net>

Hi -- the Mac system team where I work has announced
that no one can use streaming audio/video, download music, etc.
on the company computers because:

a. it is a security risk and
b. it slows down the network
(not just the Internet connection, but the whole system).

Is there even a grain of truth in this?

I've never heard of this. (but until recently I also hadn't
heard about html email security issues)

If anyone can point me to articles about streaming & security,
that would be great!

Thanks,

- Alex




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 07:55:05 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue May 22 07:55:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
In-Reply-To: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103E4@usnapsmail.asg.com>
Message-ID: <3B0A2866.9610.3A812470@localhost>

real quick folks, please *trim* your posts...

> From: Don Makoviney <DonM at allensysgroup.com>
> 
> What is wrong with the code it generates? It is by far the cleanest of
> any WYSIWYG editor I have seen.

yes, as far as WYSIWYGs, it is by far one of the best, if not the 
best... however, it is still is a WYSIWYG, and as such, writes 
imperfect code... this is no small detail for hand-coders, and no 
small detail for non-hand-coders trying to get compliance out of 
their pages...

> And even if you don't like the way it codes, you can modify the coding
> properties to make it fit your coding style.

to a point... ultimately, you still have to go in and manually hunt 
down abandonded tags, change DTDs, tweak tables for liquid 
layouts, etc... it's good, but not perfect...

and yes, i have thought about this topic before... it's not a hand-
coder vs. WYSIWYG-coder discussion, it's a discussion of which 
does what you need...

and if you want to read a previous exploration of this i wrote on the 
site, feel free to surf over to:

To Hell With Bad Editors
http://evolt.org/article/list/25/6096/index.html




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 07:58:45 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Tue May 22 07:58:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] streaming ... security risk?
In-Reply-To: <3B0A5EFA.BCF87548@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPCEMACGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>


Thanks,
Ron White

a. it is a security risk - Don't know, prolly not really, I don't think you
can imbed a virus in a sound or video file

b. it slows down the network - YES!!!! These things suck bandwidth.
(not just the Internet connection, but the whole system).

Is there even a grain of truth in this?





From sub at shanx.com  Tue May 22 08:35:26 2001
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Tue May 22 08:35:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] XPDF for Solaris/SunOS?
In-Reply-To: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPCELPCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <LPBBKJENENLIHFCGAPOIEEONGMAA.sub@shanx.com>

Thanks Ron, just browser the site. I think XPDF is not listed?

Cheers
-Shanx


    | Have you tried http://sunfreeware.com??
    | 
    | Thanks,
    | Ron White 



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From mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com  Tue May 22 08:42:06 2001
From: mayday1999 at zdnetonebox.com (arch)
Date: Tue May 22 08:42:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
Message-ID: <20010522134208.LHHL18626.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com>

Hi fortune:

There are tons of free ready-to-go applets on the web. For example, in
your case, you may take
a look at vertical or horizontal scrollers at http://javaboutique.internet.com/text/...

Overall, I agree with people on the list that Java applets is not the
only solution for scrollers. DHTML and Flash are two other good solutions
besides Java applets. They all have their own pluses and minuses.

HTH,

----------------------------- 
::: Arthur Chidlovski :::
Digital Me-Mix in the Browser
http://www.chidlovski.com/



___________________________________________________________________
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all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com




From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Tue May 22 08:52:52 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Tue May 22 08:52:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] free text scroller
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B6413@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya!

thanks for your comments. of course, i *want* to use flash: that's by far
the smallest and most efficient way, also i know it will work with all
browsers. but the marketing people are rabid flash haters. 

i had thought to just "build" one using behaviors in DW4, but i'm worried
about N6.1 compatibility, and they also want one that uses a text file so
they can update it themselves if i'm away.

DHTML would be fine -- but i'd like an URL of something that is actually
reliable! i'll check out the earthweb site now, thanks!

have fun,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Tue May 22 08:54:12 2001
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Tue May 22 08:54:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] .html vs .shtml
Message-ID: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB44@fort.cygnuspub.com>

When I use Apache, it's fairly easy to map .html to be processed for server
side includes, so I can have all file named with an .html extension and not
have a mix of .shtml and .html

Can this be done in IIS? We host a number of sites, can this be controlled
on a per-site basis, or would it be global on the server? 

thanks...


Pete



_____________________________________________________
For more information about Cygnus Business Media, please visit our 
Web site at www.cygnusb2b.com






From chris at completeimaging.com  Tue May 22 09:01:57 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Tue May 22 09:01:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] .html vs .shtml
In-Reply-To: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB44@fort.cygnuspub.com>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEEGCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

How exactly do you do this using Apache? Along with this, how would you go
about mapping other extensions. I would like to be able to map .html to be
processed by ColdFusion instead of by apache.

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
When I use Apache, it's fairly easy to map .html to be processed for server
side includes, so I can have all file named with an .html extension and not
have a mix of .shtml and .html

Can this be done in IIS? We host a number of sites, can this be controlled
on a per-site basis, or would it be global on the server?

thanks...


Pete





From sales at iibiz.com  Tue May 22 09:12:42 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (sales at iibiz.com)
Date: Tue May 22 09:12:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
References: <B72EEF8D.2D84%colin_mitchell@wgbh.org>
Message-ID: <016301c0e2c9$7ca3fe40$7fa0b3c7@iibiz>

Mornin' all!

I've dealt with auto-responders on my hosts machines before, where they
already have some sort of script installed, but now a client of mine using a
different hosting company wants one and their host company doesn't have one
pre-installed.

I did a search, and all I came up with was third party services.  Would
prefer not to do that.

Soooooooo - exactly how do auto-responders work?  Are they usually a cgi
script?  or what?
(This would send the person submitting a form an acknowledgement.)

Any help would be appreciated,

Sandy








From damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk  Tue May 22 09:14:02 2001
From: damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk (Damien Cola)
Date: Tue May 22 09:14:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] .html vs .shtml
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEEGCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEIKILJODKDPBMBFKEPOCBAA.damien.cola@synaptique.co.uk>

PS: thanks ppk for your infos on javascript security issues.. I am not too
happy with that but I suppose it is for the good of the web, otherwise we
could go into trouble while surfing porn sites.. :-)

> How exactly do you do this using Apache? Along with this, how would you go
> about mapping other extensions. I would like to be able to map .html to be
> processed by ColdFusion instead of by apache.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris

with apache, you can either go into the configuration files httpd.conf and
srm.conf (for this particular thing, it will be httpd.conf) or even simpler:
create a file called .htaccess at the root of one of your directory you want
the change to happen and write:
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .html

and all .html files will be interpreted as php

it goes the same with all file extensions, you just have to mess around.
Unfortunately I don't know the initial line for coldfusion, but here's a
fake exemple:
AddType application/x-httpd-coldfusion .cfm .html





From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Tue May 22 09:22:32 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Tue May 22 09:22:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA40@BOOTROS>

Depends on your server-side setup I suppose. A basic PHP version would be
pretty simple:

if (isset ($submit)) {
	// submit button pressed
	// process form, write to database, yada yada
	$to = "customer's email address";
	$subject = "Thanks for getting in touch!";
	$message = "Hi, thanks for filling in our form.";
	mail ($to, $subject, $message);
} else {
	// display form
}

Issues may arise with this if you have thousands of form submissions a day,
I don't know (not being an expert on PHP's efficiency under high server
load).


Cheers
Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: sales at iibiz.com [mailto:sales at iibiz.com]
Sent: 22 May 2001 15:14
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?


Mornin' all!

I've dealt with auto-responders on my hosts machines before, where they
already have some sort of script installed, but now a client of mine using a
different hosting company wants one and their host company doesn't have one
pre-installed.

I did a search, and all I came up with was third party services.  Would
prefer not to do that.

Soooooooo - exactly how do auto-responders work?  Are they usually a cgi
script?  or what?
(This would send the person submitting a form an acknowledgement.)

Any help would be appreciated,

Sandy


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From mike at price.com  Tue May 22 09:31:17 2001
From: mike at price.com (Michael Buffington)
Date: Tue May 22 09:31:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML into SQL 2000
Message-ID: <A1677A385E11D411BAA000A0CCE67ECD204692@IT-02>

Anyone have any experience importing and building tables from XML files in
SQL 2000?

Knowing that SQL 2000 supports XML natively, I assume it can be done with
relative ease, although the online books don't make it obvious.

Any tips or thoughts would be helpful.  Thanks.

Michael Buffington
http://www.michaelbuffington.com



From sgd at ti3.com  Tue May 22 09:33:07 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue May 22 09:33:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] IIS5 DNS
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D72@gate.ti3.com>

If the DNS service is setup to run via Active Directory (LDAP), you can
access it through your code, but from there I'd have to point you to the
docs wrt:Active Directory ...

(btw, IIS5 and Win2K DNS are two separate things)

sgd
--
work: http://www.ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Spiegel [mailto:joshsquared at yahoo.com]
> 
> 
> I am trying to create DNS entries in my cold fusion code.  
> What I want to do
> is make the web site and then create the DNS entry so I can 



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue May 22 09:39:02 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue May 22 09:39:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
References: <B72EEF8D.2D84%colin_mitchell@wgbh.org> <016301c0e2c9$7ca3fe40$7fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <3B0A7998.EDEFBC9F@webtuitive.com>

sales at iibiz.com wrote:

> Soooooooo - exactly how do auto-responders work?  Are they usually a cgi
> script?  or what?

Obviously there are lots of platform variables, so I won't be too 
specific, but -- if  the form's submitted to a CGI program, it's 
simple to add a few lines to send an email to the address supplied. 
(Though if you make it an independent function, you can reuse it 
for other CGIs.)

If the form's being emailed, you need to have a program as the 
"recipient"; that program parses the mail headers for the sender's
address, and responds. 

The last email auto-responder - a simple acknowledgement - I wrote 
was a two-line sh/awk script (Unix system). A way more complex one
(for the old pre-Web SunNetManager mibs-and-icons-by-mail system) 
was about 50 lines of Perl.   

HTH!
-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ---(+1) 408-938-0567 --- http://www.webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Tue May 22 09:45:08 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Tue May 22 09:45:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL")
References: <LAW2-F29siIWeTlhxvz0000aafb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003001c0e2cd$fb36a790$2860398a@newcos.com>

ppk,

> >     ...Provided that you understand that it will work in few browsers
> >currently in use (Netscape 6.x and Opera 3+). It will *not* work in any
> >version of IE, up to and including IE 6 PP1 -- nor, unsurprisingly, in
> >Netscape 4.x.
>
> Some of them do work in IE5 Mac, which is much more advanced than any
> Windows version when it comes to CSS2. For compatibility with CSS2, see my
> test site

    You caught me. :) Me and my Windows-centric mindset. My statement should
have read: "It will *not* work in any _Windows_ version of IE...".

James Aylard

<tip type="javascript">
    Remember that when a variable evaluates to null, it is treated as 0 in
numeric contexts and as false in Boolean contexts.
    For more info:
http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/js/core/jsguide15/ident.html#1013
184
</tip>




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Tue May 22 09:47:08 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue May 22 09:47:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev
References: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E1103E4@usnapsmail.asg.com>
Message-ID: <010e01c0e2ce$653a6500$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi Don

I was actually talking about the ASP it generates rather then the HTML.  I
recently helped someone who was having trouble getting a bit of UD generated
code to do what he wanted it to do.  Whilst I was looking at it I saw -
multiple recordsets where only 1 was needed, iteration through recordsets
rather then through array's using GetRows and all the ASP and HTML was mixed
up together.  All things which, in my book anyway, are bad practice.
Speaking to a guy at a MM roadshow in London last year he confirmed that
it's really just aimed at webdesigners who want to be able to do some
server-side work, rather then at developers who work mainly on the server.

Unfortunatly I really don't have time to get to grips with a new coding tool
unless I'm going to see a dramatic increase in my productivity as a result.
And nothing I've seen of UD suggests that it will be the case.

Norman


----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Makoviney" <DonM at allensysgroup.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] UltraDev
>
> What is wrong with the code it generates? It is by far the cleanest of any
> WYSIWYG editor I have seen.
>
> And even if you don't like the way it codes, you can modify the coding
> properties to make it fit your coding style.





From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Tue May 22 09:59:33 2001
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Tue May 22 09:59:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday 2001-May-14
Message-ID: <200105221503.JAA02264@alice.monkeyland.ca>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday 2001-May-14 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20010514.html



Summary Statistics for Tip Harvester

Number of messages: 534
Number of tips:     24


Tip Authors
-----------
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Afonso_Fern=E1ndez_Nogueira?= (1)
Andrew Forsberg (2)
Andrew Stevens (1)
Ben Dyer (1)
Chris Johnston (1)
David Shadovitz (1)
deke (1)
dwayne (1)
Erik Mattheis (1)
Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?= (1)
Janet Nabring-Stager (1)
Jay Greenspan (1)
jeff (3)
l a u r a *^* l y n c h (1)
Luther, Ron (1)
Marc Seyon (1)
Michele Foster (1)
rudy (1)
Sabrina Dent, Apperception (1)
Shifra Raffel (1)



Tips of Type
------------
CSS 'default' font-family specification (1)
ColdFusion (2)
Fair Use Copyright (1)
Forms (1)
IE browser windows (1)
Mac OS 9 TCP/IP Trouble (1)
Macintosh (1)
Oracle select statements (1)
Stored Queries in Access (ASP) (1)
addition to nn4 and css tip a while ago by ppk (1)
appropriate technology (1)
book review (1)
dealing with bastards (1)
for the home office (1)
perl (1)
quick way to get list of form element names (1)
text/css (1)
using thelist (1)





From sales at iibiz.com  Tue May 22 10:48:18 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (sales at iibiz.com)
Date: Tue May 22 10:48:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
References: <B72EEF8D.2D84%colin_mitchell@wgbh.org> <016301c0e2c9$7ca3fe40$7fa0b3c7@iibiz> <3B0A7998.EDEFBC9F@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <01f101c0e2d6$f4b8bbc0$7fa0b3c7@iibiz>

> Obviously there are lots of platform variables, so I won't be too
> specific, but -- if  the form's submitted to a CGI program, it's
> simple to add a few lines to send an email to the address supplied.
> (Though if you make it an independent function, you can reuse it
> for other CGIs.)
>
> If the form's being emailed, you need to have a program as the
> "recipient"; that program parses the mail headers for the sender's
> address, and responds.
>

Here's the code from the top of the form:

<FORM METHOD="post" ACTION="http://cgi.nac.net/cgi-bin/domail.pl">
    <INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="recipient" VALUE="them at theircompany.com">
    <INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="redirect"
VALUE="http://www.theircompany.com/thanks.htm">
 <INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="sort"
VALUE="order:FirstName,LastName,email,company,theirTitle,address,city,state,
zip,phone,fax,how_did_hear,send_info_about,contactme">
 <INPUT type=hidden name="subject" value="Form Input">

So, Hassan - help me!?!?  What would I need to do?

Thanks,

Sandy







From headlemur at qwest.net  Tue May 22 10:53:18 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Tue May 22 10:53:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
References: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA40@BOOTROS>
Message-ID: <023201c0e2d7$3df9c900$0b646464@qwest.net>

I wrote an article about forms here:
http://www.alistapart.zeldman.com/stories/money/money1.html

E-Mail Auto Responders are a real silly idea. Especially in response to
filling out a form. Rather than pursue auto responses, let me suggest a
thank you page response instead.

Most form handlers give you the ability to redirect upon submission.
Redirect them to a Thank You Page.

The most important part of a business site is the Information Request Form.

Part of the web design biz is to get the client to buy into the web. you
build a site, you slave over a form to get the client the information they
need in a form they can use, while making it easy to use and fill out,
hopefully leading to more business for the client, fame and glory for you
and maybe a few more bucks in fees when they expand as a result of the
enormous response from your work.

A 'thank you page' gives you an opportunity to thank the visitor for filling
out the form, gives you another page to bill for, an elegant exit from the
site, and one more shot at branding the client.

It also serves you well as a quick and dirty tool for site analysis.
looking at your server logs, you would look for the form page and the
thankyou page accesses.

If they are equal in number, Congratulations you are a form god.

If they are not, you can determine what part of your form(money page) is the
problem. Too Big? too many required fields. not enough explanation?

The web can be an incredibly effective marketing tool for business.

The information request form Pre-Qualifies the person who fills it out. The
client can respond to the request and close the sale. An auto responder
however cleverly worded, puts another barrier in the chain between the buyer
and the seller.

Your mileage may vary.

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt.org
http://www.evolt.org
Lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com

























From jillshaw at email.com  Tue May 22 10:55:24 2001
From: jillshaw at email.com (Jill Shaw)
Date: Tue May 22 10:55:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE:UltraDev
Message-ID: <383807141.990546947344.JavaMail.root@web168-ec.mail.com>

Thanks for everyone's help - I really appreciate it.
I reckon I'll just have to get my head down and stick at it. I will shout
again if I get seriously stuck!

Regards,
Jill

<TIP author="Jill Shaw" type="Usability">
Appologies if this has appeared before, but... An easy way to check how your
web page might look to a colour-blind user is to print it out on a black and
white printer - this helps to show contrast (or lack of it) between colours.
</TIP>

Jill Shaw
Web Developer
Northern Ireland
-----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com





From genghis at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 11:01:39 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Tue May 22 11:01:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] streaming ... security risk?
In-Reply-To: <3B0A5EFA.BCF87548@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ANEHKEMJEMCODFCKMFJGKEMADAAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Alessandra Gillen
> Sent: 22 May 2001 13:44
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] streaming ... security risk?
> 
> Is there even a grain of truth in this?
> 
> a. it is a security risk 

No.

> b. it slows down the network
> (not just the Internet connection, but the whole system).

Yes. (Usually.)

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------ 



From Abbey at abbeyink.com  Tue May 22 11:11:44 2001
From: Abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Tue May 22 11:11:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010522105249.007bc100@pleonasm.com>
References: <LAW2-F21JVSPeTN1AWF00012b7f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010522111118.00a37d90@mail.abbeyink.com>

At 10:52 AM 5/22/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Generally, text is more easy to read with a bit of breathing
>space above and below it, so it's often nice to set this with CSS.

Is there a default setting then if it's not declared?

Thanks,
<tamara />




From sfmalo at msn.com  Tue May 22 11:41:34 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Tue May 22 11:41:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
References: <200105212143.f4LLhu017733@leo.evolt.org> <000f01c0e243$5f27bd60$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <023601c0e2dd$f64460a0$09241b3f@oemcomputer>

I'm not telling ... but I'm getting a little long in the tooth.
(<8 Sharon

> I'm 16, and I've been using HTML since I was 12 or 13 (although I wasn't
> using it very well when I started :).
> 
> Why, how old are most people on this list?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue May 22 11:53:39 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue May 22 11:53:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using the simplest script possible (was: auto-replacing links...)
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNEEEFDKAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <3B0A997C.F7BFE5FF@avencom.com>

Mark Cheng wrote:
> all you need to do is access the links object, cycle through it and change
> the href, either using pattern matching or whatever.

Bingo!

> Depending upon platform etc you may need cross browser code.  below find
> some code for latest gen browsers :
> 
> function changeLinks () {
> var links = document.getElementsByTagname("A");
> for (i=0; i<links.length; i++) {
>         insert code to identify and replace strings here
> }

Eek! Simple is best! Don't be using that fancy schmancy getElement stuff
if you don't have to. A fine way to do this that will work in (almost?)
any damn browser would be: I think it would work as far back as 
Netscape 2 or WebTV. 

<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
var newLinkURL = "index.Jhtml"; // insert your URL
/* ======================================= */
/* this will change every link on the page */
/* to whatever newLinkURL is               */
/* ======================================= */
function changeEveryDarnLink () {
for (i=0; i<document.links.length; i++) {
	document.links[i].href=newLinkURL;
	}
}
//-->
</script>

See, that way, you use the simplest method possible, and thus you won't
have to worry about detecting objects or whatnot.

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



From markgroen at telus.net  Tue May 22 11:57:34 2001
From: markgroen at telus.net (Mark Groen)
Date: Tue May 22 11:57:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
References: <200105212143.f4LLhu017733@leo.evolt.org> <000f01c0e243$5f27bd60$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com> <023601c0e2dd$f64460a0$09241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <008401c0e2e0$332fdba0$bb81e8d8@telus.net>

Thought this thread had died - but here is my 2 cents worth:

Age doesn't make a difference, but I think almost *all* of us finished high
school at one point or another - either by the normal route or by catching
up later with some sort of Grade Equivalency Diploma - you will need this in
the future MUCH more than learning how to code scripting languages for the
computer. Not for the piece of paper that said you graduated, but the
knowledge that you were able to complete something that was needed even if
not enjoyable.

<snip>

I'm not telling ... but I'm getting a little long in the tooth.
(<8 Sharon

> I'm 16, and I've been using HTML since I was 12 or 13 (although I wasn't
> using it very well when I started :).
>
> Why, how old are most people on this list?
</snip>




From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Tue May 22 12:21:10 2001
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Tue May 22 12:21:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pd
	f  files)
Message-ID: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB48@fort.cygnuspub.com>

> > > Is this going to work on IE/Windows? It's my understanding that IE
> makes
> > > guesses about files with strange MIME types based on the extension.
> Have
> > > you used this successfully? It's an interesting and clever shorthand
> (I
> > > like!) - but does it work to bring up the "prompt to save" box for
> most
> > > browsers in a reliable way? And does doing it this way impact
> Macintosh?
> > > It seems like feeding an unknown mime type might make it unviewable
> (to
> > > most users) on the Mac side.
> > 
> 
> 
On the Mac OS side it may or may not work, depending on the file extension,
and depending on the file type and creator code. We have an app that forces
the download of a text file, for our Mac OS users they get a file named
'exported.txt' but the OS does not know it's a text file because the file
type and creator code are not there... 

Ultimately we had to change the way it worked so that it loaded the file
into a browser window and instructed the user to use the File menu to save
it, but this had to do with character translation happening when we did a
straight download versus letting the browser load the file and interpret the
characters as it saw fit... messy indeed!

Pete



_____________________________________________________
For more information about Cygnus Business Media, please visit our 
Web site at www.cygnusb2b.com






From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Tue May 22 12:24:15 2001
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Tue May 22 12:24:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Difference between <strong> and <b>
Message-ID: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB49@fort.cygnuspub.com>

> <strong> and <em> came first, then <b> and <i>, which became popular for
> use with the <font> tag. <font> has become depricated, possibly <b> and
> <i> will follow as <strong> and <em> more closely follow the origianl
> spirit if HTML and separating content from mark-up.
> 
> 
I stopped using <b> and <i> a while back in favor of <strong> and <em>

Luckily it's fairly easy to change those tags on a global basis (with your
trusty text editor of choice)


Pete



_____________________________________________________
For more information about Cygnus Business Media, please visit our 
Web site at www.cygnusb2b.com






From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue May 22 12:34:40 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue May 22 12:34:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] streaming ... security risk?
In-Reply-To: <3B0A5EFA.BCF87548@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010522110400.01f207b0@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 07:43 AM 5/22/2001, you wrote:
>Hi -- the Mac system team where I work has announced
>that no one can use streaming audio/video, download music, etc.
>on the company computers because:
>
>a. it is a security risk and

I don't know about that.

>b. it slows down the network
>(not just the Internet connection, but the whole system).

Very much so.  We've outlawed NetRadio around here because it chokes 
bandwidth.  BYOMP3 only.

--Ben

<tip type="XHTML">
If you are starting to design for XHTML 1.0, one quick thing that will make 
your life easy if/when you switch to 1.1: when centering tables, don't use 
<table align="center">, use <div align="center"><table> because the former 
will validate in XHTML 1.0, but not in XHTML 1.1.
</tip>


<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From shebacat44 at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 12:38:55 2001
From: shebacat44 at hotmail.com (Rita Richardson)
Date: Tue May 22 12:38:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
Message-ID: <F196meo547ewZkW64vw000011dc@hotmail.com>

>I'm not telling ... but I'm getting a little long in the tooth. (<8 Sharon
>

Yes, ditto on the long in the tooth thing . . .but I'm not telling, either!

I do think it is hard to keep up with the youngsters.  I work with a 
22-year-old who is a much better coder than I.  She started very young, and 
justs absorbs new and different ideas like a sponge . . .she, does not, 
however, know very many *Blondie* lyrics, so there are advantages to being 
old . . .

Rita Richardson
Web Designer
Shebacat44 at hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us  Tue May 22 12:55:45 2001
From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David)
Date: Tue May 22 12:55:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F02A127D3@EXPO1>

A note about this thread, folks.

The evolt community makes every effort to keep posts to thelist on-topic
(the topic is web development), and we have two mechanisms in place for
doing so. One is the <tip>, by which you may post an off-topic message, but
you have to include a <tip> that *is* on-topic. Like this:

<tip>
You can use a style attribute in a text input to increase the visible space
that the field takes up on the page like this:

<input type="text" size="20" name="firstname" style="width:100%">

Older browsers will use the size attribute and newer browsers will use the
style attribute to spread the input field to the full width of whatever
container the form is in, whether it's a page or table cell.
</tip>

The thing to remember about <tip>s is that every message in an off-topic
thread needs to include one. :) And just because a <tip> may seem obvious to
you, don't think everybody else has thought of it.

The other (and preferred) mechanism is thechat, evolt's mail list
specifically for non-webdev discussions, like everyone's age and
coordinating realworld events (like beervolts). It's a lively little group
and a welcome release for many of us. To subscribe, go here:

http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat

Thanks to everyone's efforts in keeping thelist as good as it is.

David



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 12:58:26 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 12:58:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS Contextual Selectors (was "Aimster must give up domain to AOL"
Message-ID: <LAW2-F23nhvCRohyMMG000138be@hotmail.com>


> > Some of them do work in IE5 Mac, which is much more advanced than any
> > Windows version when it comes to CSS2. For compatibility with CSS2, see 
>my
> > test site
>
>     You caught me. :) Me and my Windows-centric mindset. My statement 
>should
>have read: "It will *not* work in any _Windows_ version of IE...".

Ah, well, you gave me the chance to once again mention my own site <g>. And 
it isn't as if I (or anyone else) make no mistakes.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From razorwise at yahoo.com  Tue May 22 13:37:06 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Tue May 22 13:37:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
Message-ID: <20010522183728.82570.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Gang,

I need some direction in setting up a database in MySql.  I've no experience with it and am
checking out PHP.  My host already has all this configured, which is nice, but the downside, is I
can't find it!  PHP works okay...I've tested it, just don't know where to dump the data for
testing...

Here's the config that the phpinfo() command returned (re: MySql configs)-->

'./configure' '--with-mysql=/usr/local/mysql' '--with-msql=/usr/local/msql2.0'
'--with-apache=/usr/local/apache_1.3.4'

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA,

Sean



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From webshot at neoncowboy.com  Tue May 22 13:46:01 2001
From: webshot at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Tue May 22 13:46:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
In-Reply-To: <20010522183728.82570.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAKEIPDLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>

You need to connect to the MySQL db server...telnet is one way to do that,
but phpMyAdmin is way easier...

You can download phpMyAdmin here:
http://www.phpwizard.net/projects/phpMyAdmin/

Then, upload it to your server...modify the config file with your own
username/password, and see if that works.

If not, contact me offlist and I'll try to help out, my ICQ# is 51406722

good luck,
jpc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Sean Preston
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:37 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
>
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> I need some direction in setting up a database in MySql.  I've no
> experience with it and am
> checking out PHP.  My host already has all this configured, which
> is nice, but the downside, is I
> can't find it!  PHP works okay...I've tested it, just don't know
> where to dump the data for
> testing...
>
> Here's the config that the phpinfo() command returned (re: MySql
> configs)-->
>
> './configure' '--with-mysql=/usr/local/mysql'
> '--with-msql=/usr/local/msql2.0'
> '--with-apache=/usr/local/apache_1.3.4'
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> TIA,
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From wolfboy69 at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 13:48:06 2001
From: wolfboy69 at earthlink.net (Michael Wolfe)
Date: Tue May 22 13:48:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
In-Reply-To: <20010522183728.82570.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010522114718.00a861b0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 11:37 AM 5/22/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I need some direction in setting up a database in MySql.  I've no 
>experience with it and am
>checking out PHP.  My host already has all this configured, which is nice, 
>but the downside, is I
>can't find it!  PHP works okay...I've tested it, just don't know where to 
>dump the data for
>testing...
>
>Here's the config that the phpinfo() command returned (re: MySql configs)-->

Sean,

Your host should have set you up with a login to a MySQL database.

If your host doesn't provide you with a web-based tool for administering 
your database, you should check out phpMyAdmin at 
http://www.phpwizard.net/projects/phpMyAdmin/

It's THE web-based admin tool for MySQL databases.  Just copy it to a 
directory under your site root, and put your login information into the 
config file which is included with the tool.  If you don't have the login 
info, your host should be able to provide it for you.

WARNING:  Make sure you password-protect the directory where you put 
phpMyAdmin.  Otherwise, anyone will be able to access and modify your database.

___________________
Michael Wolfe
Senior Software Engineer

http://www.ework.com
mwolfe at ework.com




From razorwise at yahoo.com  Tue May 22 13:59:26 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Tue May 22 13:59:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAKEIPDLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <20010522185949.36371.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks guys.  I'm scratching my head and trying to do the Install even as we speak.  I do want to
change the extension to .php instead of .php3 though....

-Sean

<lame excuse>
The tip's in the mail?
*G*
</lame excuse>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From thelwell at thelwell.org  Tue May 22 14:26:32 2001
From: thelwell at thelwell.org (Jeanne Edna Thelwell)
Date: Tue May 22 14:26:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
In-Reply-To: <20010522185949.36371.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAKEIPDLAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522152339.0329a668@127.0.0.1>

At 11:59 AM 5/22/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks guys.  I'm scratching my head and trying to do the Install even as 
>we speak.  I do want to
>change the extension to .php instead of .php3 though....

That depends on how you're host has the server configured.  You need to ask 
them.  I think there's a script you can use, though, to tell PHP to see 
".php" as ".php3" if that's what your host requires.  BTW, there are two 
versions of phpMyAdmin, one using ".php" and one using ".php3".  Just make 
sure you match your host's installation.




From alligotar at gmx.net  Tue May 22 14:40:32 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Tue May 22 14:40:32 2001
Subject: Windows-Installation (was Re: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: 
 Downloading .jpg & .pdf files))
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com> <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net> <3B099583.345E2313@avencom.com> <3B099988.E8F133EA@gmx.net> <3B099B5E.9B7AB221@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <3B0AC0C7.BD2BAF7E@gmx.net>


Joe Crawford schrieb:
> 
> Jakob D?lling wrote:
> > I think I know something what you will help: If you're installing win32
> > (which version exactly now it is I think doesn't matter), Windows has
> > associated gif and *.jpg files to IE - I don't know how to forbid
> > Windows to install IE. Did you tried the same thing with a *.jpeg file?
> >
> > And, still something: Opera does the same as IE.
> 
> Quickie tests:
> Netscape 4 - prompt box, Netscape 6, prompt box.
> IE5, Opera 5.02, WebTV (!) viewer, all just display.

BTW: <TIP typ="WebTV name="Jakob Doelling">WebTV is IE5 as WebTV.net is
a daughter company of Mc$oft</tip>- I did looked it up in my personal
server logs. Opera seems also to make use of the IE engine.

> 
> No, I didn't test jpg/jpeg files, but I am dubious it would make a
> difference.
> 
> The thing is, my associations are what a typical installation would
> have. And it doesn't work on a typical setup for the majority. The
> theory is sound, but IE is being 'helpful' in a way that does not
> necessarily make sense. :-\

Yeah, and as a german joke proverb says: outside it is colder than at
night ;-) . No, seriously, I did re-install WinNT 4.0 and Win98 many
times and in so many variantions to come to the conclusion, that you are
not able to prevent Winsetup not to extract IE *without* modifying the
installation settings - Mc$oft would this consider as violating the
licence agreement.


Hth,

Jkaob D?lling
-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From sales at iibiz.com  Tue May 22 15:15:02 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (sales at iibiz.com)
Date: Tue May 22 15:15:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Server Security
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010522114718.00a861b0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c0e2fc$a87bde60$7cb8b3c7@iibiz>

Ok gang - need some links here.....

An ex-boss of mine (non tech type guy) called and was asking me questions
about server security.  His company plans to let people access their
paychecks online along with profit sharing etc.  He's asking me about
password options, and security for the server itself.

This isn't my area of expertise, so I'm hoping you guys can point me to some
stuff to send to him that might actually be in layman's terms......

Sandy






From gozz at gozz.com  Tue May 22 15:25:37 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue May 22 15:25:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: Looking to share server
Message-ID: <p0431010bb73072d01015@[192.168.1.100]>

I have a few dozen basic and low traffic sites in a shared 
environment I need to move to one dedicated server: Win 2K 
w/ColdFusion with SQL Server/Oracle databases on a shared DB server.

I need to come up with someone else to go in on this with to make it 
feasible, is too complicated to explain here.

Email me off list for more info if you're interested ... thanks.

<tip type="JavaScript resource">

http://www.irt.org/ is an amazing resource if you know JavaScript but 
are having trouble figuring out how to get something to work, or are 
looking for an eloquent way to solve a JavaScript problem. Their FAQ 
is searchable and comes up with really relevant results.

</tip>
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From mjr at linkzero.com  Tue May 22 15:28:52 2001
From: mjr at linkzero.com (Mike Roberto)
Date: Tue May 22 15:28:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF Studio - Macros/AutoDate/Default Template Question
In-Reply-To: <3B0AC0C7.BD2BAF7E@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <GGEDLFBEPBGIICAEGGFNMEJBCDAA.mjr@linkzero.com>

I'm(*cough*) finally putting together a standard header for my default
document in CF Studio to keep track of author name, creation date,
variables required, updates, etc.

I'm trying to find a way to autoinsert an autodate when a new file is
created. Is there a way to do this in CF Studio?

I saw a message posted in Allaire's CF Studio Forum, but noone had replied
to it with an answer.

If anyone has attempted something similar i'd appreciate any input or
suggestions.

Thanks
Mike

<TIP type="Cold Fusion Studio">
When using CF Studio you can use ctrl-J to bring up a small
menu which offers a selection of code templates to insert.

Examples include HTML 2.0, 3.2, and 4.0 DOCTYPE tags, Stylesheet
links, meta tags, and a basic javascript block.  You can add your
own templates to the collection, which can really speed up coding
if you have regularly used blocks of code at your disposal.  You
can find this under the Settings > Editor > Code Templates Menu.

Although this is similar to snippets, i like it a bit better because
using snippets you often run out of Keys to map each snippet to.
With these templates you have a little popup window to select
from and it frees up some key combinations for other functions.
</TIP>




****************************************************************************
Michael Roberto
< LinkZero >
<p> 203.248.4418
<f> 203.248.4478
<e> mjr at linkzero.com
<w> www.linkzero.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jakob D?lling
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:41 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Windows-Installation (was Re: [thelist] Playing with MIME type
(was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf files))




Joe Crawford schrieb:
>
> Jakob D?lling wrote:
> > I think I know something what you will help: If you're installing win32
> > (which version exactly now it is I think doesn't matter), Windows has
> > associated gif and *.jpg files to IE - I don't know how to forbid
> > Windows to install IE. Did you tried the same thing with a *.jpeg file?
> >
> > And, still something: Opera does the same as IE.
>
> Quickie tests:
> Netscape 4 - prompt box, Netscape 6, prompt box.
> IE5, Opera 5.02, WebTV (!) viewer, all just display.

BTW: <TIP typ="WebTV name="Jakob Doelling">WebTV is IE5 as WebTV.net is
a daughter company of Mc$oft</tip>- I did looked it up in my personal
server logs. Opera seems also to make use of the IE engine.

>
> No, I didn't test jpg/jpeg files, but I am dubious it would make a
> difference.
>
> The thing is, my associations are what a typical installation would
> have. And it doesn't work on a typical setup for the majority. The
> theory is sound, but IE is being 'helpful' in a way that does not
> necessarily make sense. :-\

Yeah, and as a german joke proverb says: outside it is colder than at
night ;-) . No, seriously, I did re-install WinNT 4.0 and Win98 many
times and in so many variantions to come to the conclusion, that you are
not able to prevent Winsetup not to extract IE *without* modifying the
installation settings - Mc$oft would this consider as violating the
licence agreement.


Hth,

Jkaob D?lling
--
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue May 22 15:38:42 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Tue May 22 15:38:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF Studio - Macros/AutoDate/Default Template Question
References: <GGEDLFBEPBGIICAEGGFNMEJBCDAA.mjr@linkzero.com>
Message-ID: <08e801c0e2ff$811838c0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

: <TIP type="Cold Fusion Studio">
: When using CF Studio you can use ctrl-J to bring up a small
: menu which offers a selection of code templates to insert.
: 
: Examples include HTML 2.0, 3.2, and 4.0 DOCTYPE tags, Stylesheet
: links, meta tags, and a basic javascript block.  You can add your
: own templates to the collection, which can really speed up coding
: if you have regularly used blocks of code at your disposal.  You
: can find this under the Settings > Editor > Code Templates Menu.
: 
: Although this is similar to snippets, i like it a bit better because
: using snippets you often run out of Keys to map each snippet to.
: With these templates you have a little popup window to select
: from and it frees up some key combinations for other functions.
: </TIP>

AWESOME tip.  I never knew.  There's one thing I would add, though.

<tip type="Cold Fusion Studio" name="shortcuts">
Original tip from Mike Roberto

When using CF Studio you can use ctrl-J to bring up a small
menu which offers a selection of code templates to insert.

Examples include HTML 2.0, 3.2, and 4.0 DOCTYPE tags, Stylesheet
links, meta tags, and a basic javascript block.  You can add your
own templates to the collection, which can really speed up coding
if you have regularly used blocks of code at your disposal.  You
can find this under the Settings > Editor > Code Templates Menu.

Although this is similar to snippets, i like it a bit better because
using snippets you often run out of Keys to map each snippet to.
With these templates you have a little popup window to select
from and it frees up some key combinations for other functions.

Addendum:

And, you can type the "keyword" into the editor and press Ctrl-J 
immediately after and it'll expand the keyword into the full text of 
the shortcut.  This is useful if you have added many items and the 
list has grown unbearably long.
</tip>

-joshua




From jaytanwar at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 15:39:42 2001
From: jaytanwar at hotmail.com (Jai Singh Tanwar)
Date: Tue May 22 15:39:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Re:The Mail Editor in the ASP PAGES
Message-ID: <001e45639201651BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Hi all

Does any one know about some good Com component
which can Add the MailEditor/MailEditing Facilites to the
Asp pages.Preferably it Should not bethe activeX .

Thanks
Jai




From jaytanwar at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 15:40:37 2001
From: jaytanwar at hotmail.com (Jai Singh Tanwar)
Date: Tue May 22 15:40:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Re:The Maintaining a Session/Session Variables
Message-ID: <002870041201651BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

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Hi All
 Is there any One out there Who knows how to Maintain a Session
Varaiable or Session
across More then One IIS SERVER IN ASP=20



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Tue May 22 15:44:12 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Tue May 22 15:44:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAEHCHHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>

Dear List
              I have recently returned from my honeymoon and have bought a
domain name to host a vanity site with all our photos and holiday journal
for all our friends and relatives in far flung places. I intend to put the
best of our photos on a page as thumbnails, click on the picture to see it
full size etc., but I would also like to be able to have "next" and
"previous" arrows on the page so people can just flick through all the full
size pictures if they wish. How is the best way to achieve this? I can think
of 2 possible options...

1. Upload all the images into a directory and then create a JavaScript
function with the images listed in an array (not even sure if this is
possible, my JavaScript is a little rusty).

2. Put the image filepaths into a database and then call them from there,
using the primary key to keep them in order.

So, which way is preferable, or is there another way that is so blindingly
obvious I have missed it?

TIA

Kev
kjs at ratking.co.uk




From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Tue May 22 15:44:47 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Tue May 22 15:44:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB
Message-ID: <88256A54.0071E572.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


I've been given the task of using Cold Fusion to pull data from an Informix
database (over which I barely have read access, much less any other access) in
order to automate our Outage Monitor for some of our systems.

One of the problems I'm running up against is that the system that populates the
data (Action Request System) stores text fields as BLOBs (Binary Large OBjects)
and when I pull the info from the database, it displays as hexadecimal.

So far, no one I've found can tell me if there's a way to convert that to the
original text.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to turn a BLOB into readable
text?

Thanks!

Scott





From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Tue May 22 15:54:42 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Tue May 22 15:54:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B641D@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya again!

ok, marketing now wants dhtml menus. i have explained to them that these are
*heavy.* they want them anyway.

our webmaster likes the dhtml menus from web reference, because they are
well-documented, widely used, and free. see
http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column53/LoadMe.html

however, these require a minimum 38K download(!) just for all the scripts,
not to mention the in-page stuff. i have corporate clients with T1 lines,
but still. . .

i have looked at the wonderful fireworks 4 menus, which are just(!) 24k to
download. however, there are several bugs. . .such as every different menu
must have its own 24k file. . .<sigh>

i have made a simple menu in DW4 that works in all browsers and is 20k, just
by hiding and showing <div>s. nope, must have dhtml.

arguing them out of this won't work, and they hate flash. can anyone give me
the URL of a *light* dhtml menu? or am i just being a sissy? is 38k not a
problem, really??

tia,

fortune

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 15:54:47 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Tue May 22 15:54:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
In-Reply-To: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPKENMCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

How about the simplest? You have N photos, load them all into a directory
and then Photo1 has links to photo2 <next> and photoN<previous>, 2 has
3<next> and 1<previous etc until you get to photoN which has photo1<next>
and photoN-1<previous>

Thanks,
Ron White

<snip>
I intend to put the best of our photos on a page as thumbnails, click on the
picture to see it full size etc., but I would also like to be able to have
"next" and "previous" arrows on the page so people can just flick through
all the full size pictures if they wish.
So, which way is preferable, or is there another way that is so blindingly
obvious I have missed it?
</snip>





From lists at icongarden.com  Tue May 22 15:56:47 2001
From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Tue May 22 15:56:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Age (was: Difference between <strong> and <b>)
In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F02A127D3@EXPO1>
References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F02A127D3@EXPO1>
Message-ID: <a05100311b730829f8917@[24.6.124.169]>

I've had some issues with this in Netscape 4.x.. it tends to add an 
extra line break afterward, so be mindful of this when placing styles 
on form elements. I like the 100% thing, just wish it worked a little 
better :) (If this is due to me doing something wrong, please correct 
my erroneous ways!)

Jake
>
><tip>
>You can use a style attribute in a text input to increase the visible space
>that the field takes up on the page like this:
>
><input type="text" size="20" name="firstname" style="width:100%">
>
>Older browsers will use the size attribute and newer browsers will use the
>style attribute to spread the input field to the full width of whatever
>container the form is in, whether it's a page or table cell.
></tip>
>

-- 
Jacob Stetser :: jms at icongarden.com
Internet Experience Consultant

icongarden.com: Making good ideas grow!



From mike at dehart.net  Tue May 22 15:58:42 2001
From: mike at dehart.net (Mike DeHart)
Date: Tue May 22 15:58:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4.0 sign-in/sign-out feature
In-Reply-To: <E99C30D42BB0D4119AA000508B602D26CA9AFD@message1.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010522165042.035427a0@mail.mail-server.com>

Am about to recommend a ten seat license for a small, ill-funded nonprofit. 
Is any one design app clearly superior re check-in/check-out... 
Dreamweaver/GoLive/Frontpage?

Thanx!!!


m


At 05:20 PM 4/3/01, Baker, Nick wrote:
>Mark--
>         I agree--we abandoned the in/out feature too. FWIW, FP's similar
>feature also caused problems when I moved to a new position, and turned the
>site over to someone else. Some files were checked out to me when my
>permissions were cancelled and now no one has been able to touch them!
>SysAdmin is working on it...
>
>                 Nick
>
>Nick Baker
>Web Access Officer
>The University of Montana
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Gregor [mailto:mark at velir.com]
>Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4.0 sign-in/sign-out feature
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

------------------------------------------
Mike DeHart
703 448 8120
mike at dehart.net




From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com  Tue May 22 15:58:57 2001
From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn)
Date: Tue May 22 15:58:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAEHCHHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com> <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>
Message-ID: <030301c0e302$12fec4a0$0301a8c0@FSODOM>

If you have CGI access, get a free CGI script that does it at:

hotscripts.com
cgi-resources.com

Norman
www.craftedsolutions.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Stevens <kjs at ratking.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: [thelist] Photos


> Dear List
>               I have recently returned from my honeymoon and have bought a
> domain name to host a vanity site with all our photos and holiday journal
> for all our friends and relatives in far flung places. I intend to put the
> best of our photos on a page as thumbnails, click on the picture to see it
> full size etc., but I would also like to be able to have "next" and
> "previous" arrows on the page so people can just flick through all the
full
> size pictures if they wish. How is the best way to achieve this? I can
think
> of 2 possible options...
>
> 1. Upload all the images into a directory and then create a JavaScript
> function with the images listed in an array (not even sure if this is
> possible, my JavaScript is a little rusty).
>
> 2. Put the image filepaths into a database and then call them from there,
> using the primary key to keep them in order.
>
> So, which way is preferable, or is there another way that is so blindingly
> obvious I have missed it?
>
> TIA
>
> Kev
> kjs at ratking.co.uk
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From qsfc at home.com  Tue May 22 16:03:37 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Tue May 22 16:03:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIAEHCHHAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com> <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>
Message-ID: <007b01c0e303$25bca160$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

Well, you could just put them all in individual HTML files, that'd be the
simplest way from some points of view. I'd use the database though, since it
doesn't require people to have javascript enabled, and it's just slicker. :)

---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From qsfc at home.com  Tue May 22 16:05:42 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Tue May 22 16:05:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP function: dovars()
Message-ID: <008301c0e303$733a9500$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

I was looking through some source files on my way to learning this language,
and I came across this function. I couldn't find it in the PHP manual, but
if I guess right it seems very useful. I just need to know how to use it, as
in the syntax.

Thanks for any help,
---------------------------------
  Quicksilver
: qsfc at home.com




From robin at rhastings.net  Tue May 22 16:06:02 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings)
Date: Tue May 22 16:06:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
In-Reply-To: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>
Message-ID: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHAEJOCPAA.robin@rhastings.net>

>I can think
>of 2 possible options...
>
>1. Upload all the images into a directory and then create a JavaScript
>function with the images listed in an array (not even sure if this is
>possible, my JavaScript is a little rusty).
>
>2. Put the image filepaths into a database and then call them from there,
>using the primary key to keep them in order.
>
>So, which way is preferable, or is there another way that is so blindingly
>obvious I have missed it?
>
>TIA
>
>Kev
>kjs at ratking.co.uk

What platform are you using, Kev? I have a friend who did this for pictures of his niece
at http://www.mikewashburn.com/hanna.htm with sequentially numbered pics and Cold Fusion.
Drop me a line if you need details!


Robin Hastings
Public Computer Center Coordinator
hastingsr at mrrl.org
(573) 634-6064 x242






From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Tue May 22 16:10:52 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Tue May 22 16:10:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B641D@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <016f01c0e303$f1ef6920$2860398a@newcos.com>

fortune,

> i have made a simple menu in DW4 that works in all browsers and is 20k,
just
> by hiding and showing <div>s. nope, must have dhtml.
>
> arguing them out of this won't work, and they hate flash. can anyone give
me
> the URL of a *light* dhtml menu? or am i just being a sissy? is 38k not a
> problem, really??

    Actually, your DW4 menu that hides and shows divs *is* dhtml (dhtml is
generally considered to be a combination of html, scripting, and style
sheets). What is it that they want that this menu isn't?

James Aylard




From alastair at cubeit.co.uk  Tue May 22 16:11:27 2001
From: alastair at cubeit.co.uk (Alastair Murdoch)
Date: Tue May 22 16:11:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B641D@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <GEEKJBLDIEOIJDCEAAPJGEFJCFAA.alastair@cubeit.co.uk>

Try visiting computer arts www.computerarts.co.uk.  They have a pretty easy
to use, very efficient drop drop code available for download.  It's
straightforward, easy to customise, works in 4+ browsers and in a few days
time I'll have a NS6 modification working!!!

Only thing it doesn't have is any form of hierarchy, it's one dropdown only
although I suppose it could be adapted fairly easily, you really only
applying the same script to another layer.

Mail me if you want any more info on it.

Cheers

alastair

 -------------------------------
A l a s t a i r   M u r d o c h
c o n s u l t a n t  @  c u b e

    [t:]  01292 27 00 99
    [m:]  07974 323 551
    [w:] www.cubeit.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Fortune Elkins
Sent: 22 May 2001 21:55
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus


hiya again!

ok, marketing now wants dhtml menus. i have explained to them that these are
*heavy.* they want them anyway.

our webmaster likes the dhtml menus from web reference, because they are
well-documented, widely used, and free. see
http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column53/LoadMe.html

however, these require a minimum 38K download(!) just for all the scripts,
not to mention the in-page stuff. i have corporate clients with T1 lines,
but still. . .

i have looked at the wonderful fireworks 4 menus, which are just(!) 24k to
download. however, there are several bugs. . .such as every different menu
must have its own 24k file. . .<sigh>

i have made a simple menu in DW4 that works in all browsers and is 20k, just
by hiding and showing <div>s. nope, must have dhtml.

arguing them out of this won't work, and they hate flash. can anyone give me
the URL of a *light* dhtml menu? or am i just being a sissy? is 38k not a
problem, really??

tia,

fortune

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From elfur at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 16:13:27 2001
From: elfur at members.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir)
Date: Tue May 22 16:13:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B641D@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <1b1b01c0e304$0ec37a00$40aefea9@DWARFS>

From: "Fortune Elkins" <fortune_elkins at summithq.com>


| ok, marketing now wants dhtml menus. i have explained to them that these
are
| *heavy.* they want them anyway.

<snip>

| however, these require a minimum 38K download(!) just for all the
scripts,
| not to mention the in-page stuff. i have corporate clients with T1 lines,
| but still. . .

<snip>
|
| or am i just being a sissy? is 38k not a problem, really??

I'd never dare to call you a sissy, but I don't think you will get a
lighter script with the capabilities and cross-browser support of the
webreference script.
So if there's no way to turn them away from that solution, just explain to
them what that means, what the consequences are (in terms of lo bandwidth
customers), and then proceed.

HTH
elfur




From qsfc at home.com  Tue May 22 16:16:02 2001
From: qsfc at home.com (Quicksilver)
Date: Tue May 22 16:16:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Nevermind.. [was: PHP function: dovars()]
References: <008301c0e303$733a9500$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <00b101c0e304$e6ef7140$70b42a18@yec1.on.wave.home.com>

I feel a bit embarassed here.. the function was one that was defined
elsewhere in the file. I don't know why I didn't check that.

Sorry, false alarm. :)

- qs




From max at munkandphyber.com  Tue May 22 16:30:48 2001
From: max at munkandphyber.com (Max Fenton)
Date: Tue May 22 16:30:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP MySql
In-Reply-To: <20010522205843.36A0BB96@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B73052C0.760D%max@munkandphyber.com>

> Thanks guys.  I'm scratching my head and trying to do the Install even as we
> speak.  I do want to
> change the extension to .php instead of .php3 though....
> 
> -Sean

No, actually I you don't.  When working with someone else's (open-source)
project it's best not to mess around with filenames unless you really want
to verify every dependency in a multi-thousand-line bundle of source.

If you tinker with the source, you cut yourself off from the development
project as a whole.  in other words, new patches, versions, etc. will break
when you try to just drop the patches in.

in this case (phpMyAdmin), no one but you (and co-administrators) should
even be looking at the program; certainly as developers and designers we
shouldn't shrug off the aesthetics of in-house work, but in this case, don't
worry too much about the .php3 vs .php extensions.  Functionally, both work
just as well and (in fact) .php3 is more compatible - useful when you don't
have control of the host.

--Max

...............................................
: max.fenton :: 5880.com :: munkandphyber.com :




From kalyanideshpande at yahoo.com  Tue May 22 16:34:43 2001
From: kalyanideshpande at yahoo.com (kalyani deshpande)
Date: Tue May 22 16:34:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
Message-ID: <20010522213506.5856.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm a budding web designer/developer and in the
process of learning DHTML and wanted to know whether
designers/developers actually *create* dhtml code from
scratch or whether they get it off of websites. 

I've seen many job descriptions that say you need to
know DHTMl but I'd like to get the inside scoop on
things. Will they actually tell me to write the code
or is more of "know what it looks like and you'll be
okay"?

Thanks,
Kalyani

=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From andrew.mcnabb at mindspring.com  Tue May 22 16:41:27 2001
From: andrew.mcnabb at mindspring.com (Andy)
Date: Tue May 22 16:41:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: dhtml menus
In-Reply-To: <20010522205844.06188B9A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B730555C.5338%andrew.mcnabb@mindspring.com>

Since you have DW4, you should check out the snap and autolayers extension
from Project Seven (http://www.projectseven.com/).  They are very light and
work with all 4+ browsers (though I think there are some issues with IE4.5
Mac).  You'll have to roll your own with these extensions - they're not as
easy to setup as the Fireworks menus - but they're not difficult and they're
much more flexible.

Just go to Project Seven and look for Snap Layers under the
tutorials/extensions section.

HTH,

Andy 

> From: Fortune Elkins <fortune_elkins at summithq.com>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:54:59 -0400
> To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
> 
> hiya again!
> 
> ok, marketing now wants dhtml menus. i have explained to them that these are
> *heavy.* they want them anyway.
<snip>




From charliel at infohwy.com  Tue May 22 16:43:42 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Tue May 22 16:43:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache 1.2.6 Q
References: <3B05B33E.C322CD9@gmx.net> <3B05B7B7.38262E7B@webtuitive.com> <3B0990A2.4F358E6B@gmx.net> <3B09ADE2.604678B5@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <007201c0e318$d2a7b3a0$6b202fc0@emmis.com>

Logformat directives can only go in the main server configuration or in a
virtual server configuration section..

that is, in the httpd.conf file.

charlie

> Jakob D?lling wrote:
>
> > > LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\"
\"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined
> > > LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" common
> > > LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer
> > > LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent
> >
> > one question: can I add these lines add to the .htaccess-file or is
> > required that these lines are in the main server configuration section?





From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Tue May 22 16:49:47 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Tue May 22 16:49:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A06FCF816@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Scott,

Didn't see a 'quick answer' in my CF boof ... found a number of interesting
links running "read BLOB" through google...


http://www.mvps.org/vb/hardcore/html/readingwritingblobs.htm

http://www.bitmechanic.com/mail-archives/dbi-users/Oct1998/0029.html

http://faqchest.dynhost.com/prgm/dbi-l/dbi-98/dbi-9803/dbi-980301/dbi9803100
0_01659.html

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q210/4/86.asp


HTH,

RonL.


-----Original Message-----
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com [mailto:scott.brady at homeqonline.com]

One of the problems I'm running up against is that the system that populates
the
data (Action Request System) stores text fields as BLOBs (Binary Large
OBjects)
and when I pull the info from the database, it displays as hexadecimal.

So far, no one I've found can tell me if there's a way to convert that to
the
original text.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to turn a BLOB into
readable
text?



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 16:52:17 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 16:52:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
Message-ID: <LAW2-F19Q3I9W4bdTeA000061b7@hotmail.com>

>I'm a budding web designer/developer and in the
>process of learning DHTML and wanted to know whether
>designers/developers actually *create* dhtml code from
>scratch or whether they get it off of websites.

I usually write from scratch. If I don't, I use functions that I myself have 
written before. The reason is that most script libs, pre-written scripts 
etc. are far too complicated, usually containing lots of stuff that you'll 
never use.

Two of my own pages for your edification:

http://www.digital-web.com/features/  an article that explains the purpose 
and history of the DOM. Background info that you'll need if you really want 
to understand DHTML.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?introdh.html  My Introduction to 
DHTML. What is it, what can it do, what can't it do, how to write it.

>I've seen many job descriptions that say you need to
>know DHTMl but I'd like to get the inside scoop on
>things. Will they actually tell me to write the code
>or is more of "know what it looks like and you'll be
>okay"?

I guess the second, unless you come across someone who is like me <g>. If 
someone applies for a job and says he can write DHTML from scratch, I gently 
ask him to name the problems with layers in Netscape 4 and wait for his 
answer. I don't mind hiring someone who only knows how to copy/paste 
scripts, as long as he says he can only copy/paste.

But this depends entirely on the person that decides whether to hire you. 
Knowing DHTML (and *really* knowing it, including its problems) is of course 
an asset in each job application.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From paul_dewey at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 16:55:47 2001
From: paul_dewey at hotmail.com (Paul Dewey)
Date: Tue May 22 16:55:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
Message-ID: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com>

Long answer-
When a job description asks for DHTML knowledge they want you to be able to 
create the page with dhtml coding.  Not just know what it is because this is 
useless to them that you "know" what it is, but don't know how to create it. 
  Many editors can help you but it best to be able to do it from scratch.  I 
sometimes get stuck and go browsing for help.

Short Answer-
They want you to know how to do it from scratch.

Paul
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From alligotar at gmx.net  Tue May 22 16:57:57 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Tue May 22 16:57:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
Message-ID: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>

Morn gang:

one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to put the "signature"
at the end of the mail and what's the title of that RFC?

Thanks,

Jakob D?lling



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 17:01:58 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 17:01:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus
Message-ID: <LAW2-F96kg3AmsfGdMN000015fc@hotmail.com>

>ok, marketing now wants dhtml menus. i have explained to them that these 
>are *heavy.* they want them anyway.

They don't need to be heavy.

>our webmaster likes the dhtml menus from web reference, because they are 
>well-documented, widely used, and free. see
>http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column53/LoadMe.html

I happened to study this one a few days ago. It contains far too much code, 
of course, and in addition it achieves the pseudo-mouseover effect (hovered 
link gets different colour) in Netscape 4 by constantly rewriting the 
layers. Although this is no problem when the menu is the only DHTML on the 
page, I shudder to think what might happen if you add an additional 10 
layers for your own DHTML stuff. Netscape 4 might easily crash.

>however, these require a minimum 38K download(!) just for all the scripts, 
>not to mention the in-page stuff. i have corporate clients with T1 lines, 
>but still. . .

That's the problem: far too much code. A good DHTML script doesn't need to 
be heavier than 3K. On the other hand, I think the actual data for the menu 
(the text and hrefs of the links) are included in the 38K.

>i have looked at the wonderful fireworks 4 menus, which are just(!) 24k to 
>download. however, there are several bugs. . .such as every different menu 
>must have its own 24k file. . .<sigh>

How lovely. Fireworks  = no go. I've noticed the totally ridiculous way that 
it slices up your images while there's no reason for it, combined with this 
DHTML nonsense it means to me that you shouldn't rely on Fireworks for your 
client side code.

>i have made a simple menu in DW4 that works in all browsers and is 20k, 
>just by hiding and showing <div>s. nope, must have dhtml.

Hiding and showing DIV's *is* DHTML, it's the changing of the visibility 
style declaration by means of JavaScript.

DHTML = CSS + JavaScript

Maybe you should change some little detail, say you've rewritten it so that 
it does "real" DHTML instead of just hiding layers and show it again.

>arguing them out of this won't work, and they hate flash. can anyone give 
>me the URL of a *light* dhtml menu? or am i just being a sissy? is 38k not 
>a problem, really??

I can only offer you my own try:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?dhtmlnavi.html

It doesn't have the pseudo-mouseover effect on links in Netscape 4, though, 
while the webreference script does.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
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From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue May 22 17:03:07 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue May 22 17:03:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
References: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B0AE222.EB70ECCA@avencom.com>

Paul Dewey wrote:
> Long answer-
> When a job description asks for DHTML knowledge they want you to be able to
> create the page with dhtml coding.  Not just know what it is because this is
> useless to them that you "know" what it is, but don't know how to create it.
>   Many editors can help you but it best to be able to do it from scratch.  I
> sometimes get stuck and go browsing for help.
> 
> Short Answer-
> They want you to know how to do it from scratch.

I pretty much agree. It depends on their expectations. If you use a
canned script, or if, say, they're using an *existing* canned script
from somewhere, and they want to know why it breaks in IE5/Mac or
Netscape 6 - will you be able to deal with it? If you can't, then maybe
you can say you're "familiar with dhtml" rather than being able to say
"can program DHTML."

As with any part of your skillset, you should have an objective
knowledge of the extent, and the limits, of your understanding and
training.

If you're interested in claiming DHTML knowledge on a resume or in an
interview - make a simple project for yourself which would require dhtml
coding - then make a challenge for yourself to make it work in IE5,
Netscape 6, IE5/Mac, Opera, Netscape 4. The things you will learn will
tell you the limits of your knowledge - and make you smart enough to
deal with the Q in an interview.

There was a great article in Dr. Dobb's Journal earlier this year
talking about the sad history of dhtml, and why it's hard to do, but why
there's hope for the future. It would be a good starting point.

Honestly though, a trip through the resources listed on this list *every
day* would probably teach you lots as well.

HTH,

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 17:11:52 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue May 22 17:11:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
Message-ID: <LAW2-F1315wlSe9F6EB00013f3f@hotmail.com>



>Morn gang:
>
>one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to put the "signature" at 
>the end of the mail and what's the title of that RFC?

I doubt anyone has ever bothered to write an RFC about this. Most likely 
it's contained in some old version of the Netiquette.

I don't use a sig, BTW, so I wouldn't be following this hypothetical RFC.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From meta at telerama.com  Tue May 22 17:12:12 2001
From: meta at telerama.com (meta.chris)
Date: Tue May 22 17:12:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] statistics on browser usage
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010522180636.009ef290@pop.mindspring.com>

hi,

are there any good statistics on which browsers are being used? i know it's 
a given that IE is the most common, but which version (4.*, 5.*)?  how 
about netscape (4.*,etc.)?  sorry if this question has been posted many 
times before.

-->(meta)chris
     meta at telerama.com




From filip at netdesign.se  Tue May 22 17:17:32 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Tue May 22 17:17:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
In-Reply-To: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKKEOPKJAA.filip@netdesign.se>

Jakob D?lling:
> one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to
> put the "signature" at the end of the mail and
> what's the title of that RFC?

Sounds like RFC1855, "Netiquette guidelines".
<http://rfc1855.x42.com>

/filip




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Tue May 22 17:42:42 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Tue May 22 17:42:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
Message-ID: <01e101c0e310$c6ca9140$2860398a@newcos.com>

    I have a question that is primarily ASP-oriented, but also revolves
around ADO and MS SQL: Is it possible to store a recordset extracted from a
SQL table as an Application variable? Actually, I've done that, and on my
ASP page I can determine that the variable is a recordset using the VBScript
TypeName function (the result being "Recordset").
    But I can't figure out how to extract the data from that Application
variable. (In theory, I'd like to be able to loop through the recordset in
the Application variable just as I do through a recordset grabbed directly
from a database -- you know, Do While Not objRs.EOF, blah, blah, blah...).
Can this be done? If so, would someone explain how?
    BTW, this is with a small database table that rarely changes, so storing
it as an Application variable rather than pulling the data from the database
each time seems like a good idea. Are there serious objections to doing
this?
    Thanks.

James Aylard




From nkoechley at liquidthinking.com  Tue May 22 17:44:02 2001
From: nkoechley at liquidthinking.com (Nate Koechley)
Date: Tue May 22 17:44:02 2001
Subject: [fwd] [thelist] Photos
Message-ID: <000082744221651BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


hey there,

IMHO, the best/easiest way is to let photoshop (5.5+, i think) do it for
you automatically.

Open Photoshop, Click: File > Automate > Web Photo Gallery

It will take a directory of .jpg's, (or any format, i think), and create
the thumbnails, create and optimize the large format images, create all
the html pages and the navigation. it's pretty good. plus, if you know
your way around html and global-search-and-replace, you can easily
customize the html it outputs...=20

cheers
nate




From sfmalo at msn.com  Tue May 22 17:45:17 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Tue May 22 17:45:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0105220951420.5337-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <03fb01c0e310$c32c0dc0$09241b3f@oemcomputer>

Simon wrote:
> 12pt is the font size, 18pt is the line-height or leading. It's just a
> shorthand way to write it

Simon, two questions.

What would 18pt be considered? Normal (default) leading, less space, more
space?

Then, using this value could take care of the Netscape problem of "hiking
up" a line especially when dealing with unordered lists?

sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Tue May 22 17:51:17 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Tue May 22 17:51:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
References: <01e101c0e310$c6ca9140$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <03b101c0e311$d0c36770$7103020a@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi James...

From: "James Aylard" <webmaster at equilon-mrc.com>
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset
in an Application Variable?
>     I have a question that is primarily ASP-oriented, but also
> revolves around ADO and MS SQL: Is it possible to store a recordset
> extracted from a SQL table as an Application variable? Actually,
> I've done that, and on my ASP page I can determine that the
> variable is a recordset using the VBScript TypeName function (the
> result being "Recordset").
>     But I can't figure out how to extract the data from that
> Application variable. (In theory, I'd like to be able to loop
> through the recordset in the Application variable just as I do
> through a recordset grabbed directly from a database -- you know,
> Do While Not objRs.EOF, blah, blah, blah...). Can this be done? If
> so, would someone explain how?

Try this:

set objRecordset = Application("myrecordset")

>     BTW, this is with a small database table that rarely changes,
> so storing it as an Application variable rather than pulling the
> data from the database each time seems like a good idea. Are there
> serious objections to doing this?
>     Thanks.

Not to plug my own article or anything (becuase it could be a lot
better  ;-), but try looking at this:

http://www.evolt.org/article/ASP_Application_level_HTML_Caching/17/621
/index.html

Basically, what I would do (if you can) is create the display of the
data in the recordset and store *that* in an application variable.
Or, spit the recordset into something lighter like an array:

a_myarray  = objMyRecordset.GetRows()
Application.Lock
Application("MyArray") = a_myarray
Application.Unlock

Storing the recordset in the Application object is generally not a
Good Thing(tm) and if you can avoid it, avoid it. ;-)



- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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From paola at limitless.co.uk  Tue May 22 17:56:12 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Tue May 22 17:56:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
References: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B0AEF67.74C9FAEB@limitless.co.uk>

Jakob D?lling wrote:
> one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to put the "signature"
> at the end of the mail and what's the title of that RFC?

There's a couple of old FAQs about it (from when FAQs were approved).

Signature, Finger, & Customized Headers FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/signature_finger_faq/

FAQ on making and using a .signature file
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/signature-faq/

http://www.faqs.org/ is a great resource if you've not come
across it before - it includes all Usenet FAQs, and all
FYIs and RFCs.


Paola
--
Ceci n'est pas une cig    ====*



From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Tue May 22 18:01:53 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Tue May 22 18:01:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <03fb01c0e310$c32c0dc0$09241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20010522235904-r01010600-11768f4b@10.0.0.15>

On 22/5/01 at 3:44 pm, sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo) wrote:

> Simon wrote:
> > 12pt is the font size, 18pt is the line-height or leading. It's just a
> > shorthand way to write it
> 
> Simon, two questions.
> 
> What would 18pt be considered? Normal (default) leading, less space, more
> space?

More space. In my experience normal = set solid (no extra space)
 
> Then, using this value could take care of the Netscape problem of "hiking
> up" a line especially when dealing with unordered lists?

Which version of Netscape? and what do you mean by 'hiking up'

Matt



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Ho-HO!' said Christopher Robin loudly and suddenly.
   Piglet jumped six inches in the air with Surprise and Anxiety, but Pooh 
went on dreaming.



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue May 22 18:08:58 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue May 22 18:08:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
Message-ID: <01c0e314$2e7451c0$b848149a@rudy>

>Sounds like RFC1855, "Netiquette guidelines".
><http://rfc1855.x42.com>


hi filip

hey, i recognize that domain -- that's the home of the koolefant!!

check it out if you haven't seen it   =o)

as for email etiquette, here's an excellent reference that is often
mentioned here on thelist --

   How to Write Effective Mailing List Email
   http://www.digital-web.com/tutorials/tutorial_1999-12.shtml


rudy.ca




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue May 22 18:09:03 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue May 22 18:09:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
Message-ID: <01c0e314$376cc460$b848149a@rudy>

>    BTW, this is with a small database table that rarely changes, so
> storing it as an Application variable rather than pulling the data from
> the database each time seems like a good idea. Are there serious
> objections to doing this?

hi james

depends on what you mean by "application" and "each time"

dunno about asp, but in cold fusion you can set application variables that
are available basically forever (i.e. until the cf server comes down)

if "each time" means each request for a page, then yeah, using web server
variables  to keep database query results that don't change that often is a
good idea

you'll also need some way to scratch the variables whenever the database
does change, so that they are automatically retrieved from the database on
the first page request after the update

rudy.ca




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Tue May 22 18:13:38 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Tue May 22 18:13:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
References: <01e101c0e310$c6ca9140$2860398a@newcos.com> <03b101c0e311$d0c36770$7103020a@patk3mzsmhxpqb>
Message-ID: <01f401c0e315$16f22440$2860398a@newcos.com>

Matt,

> Try this:
>
> set objRecordset = Application("myrecordset")

    That was my initial effort. But I get errors in my ASP page saying that
the object is closed. BTW, I am deriving my recordset by using the Execute
method of the Command object (partly because I am passing a parameter into
my stored procedure). Of the various ways to extract a recordset via ADO, is
there a better one that I should be using?

> Not to plug my own article or anything (becuase it could be a lot
> better  ;-), but try looking at this:
>
> http://www.evolt.org/article/ASP_Application_level_HTML_Caching/17/621
> /index.html

    It's a good article. :) Although it only touches briefly, in the last
paragraph, on caching database chunks in Application variables --
tantalizing, but not much detail on that point.

> Basically, what I would do (if you can) is create the display of the
> data in the recordset and store *that* in an application variable.
> Or, spit the recordset into something lighter like an array:
...
> Storing the recordset in the Application object is generally not a
> Good Thing(tm) and if you can avoid it, avoid it. ;-)

    Would a disconnected recordset qualify? I certainly don't want to leave
a database connection open, but a disconnected recordset would seem to avoid
that.
    Thanks.

James Aylard




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Tue May 22 18:18:08 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Tue May 22 18:18:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
References: <01c0e314$376cc460$b848149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <01fb01c0e315$b9770fa0$2860398a@newcos.com>

Rudy,

> dunno about asp, but in cold fusion you can set application variables that
> are available basically forever (i.e. until the cf server comes down)
>
> if "each time" means each request for a page, then yeah, using web server
> variables  to keep database query results that don't change that often is
a
> good idea

    Yup, that's what I meant. Application variables in ASP are essentially
the same as what you describe in CF.

> you'll also need some way to scratch the variables whenever the database
> does change, so that they are automatically retrieved from the database on
> the first page request after the update

    I figured that I would set up ASP code to update the Application
variable from the database when the user modified the underlying table. But
that's a challenge for another day. :)

James Aylard




From lists at icongarden.com  Tue May 22 18:26:48 2001
From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Tue May 22 18:26:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
In-Reply-To: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com>
References: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b730a593bf50@[24.6.124.169]>

REAL Short Answer:
A recruiter wrote the job description ;)
>
>Short Answer-
>They want you to know how to do it from scratch.
>
<tip type="Working with other people? Use version control">
Unless you don't want to spend tons of time scratching your head 
about who changed what and where, implement version control. CVS is a 
great tool if you have access to it, Visual Sourcesafe ain't that bad 
either (for MS ;), and even BBedit has a GREAT "Compare differences" 
function that'll do in a pinch.
</tip>

-- 
Jacob Stetser :: jms at icongarden.com
Internet Experience Consultant

icongarden.com: Making good ideas grow!



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue May 22 18:28:33 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue May 22 18:28:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
Message-ID: <01c0e316$c816d8a0$b848149a@rudy>

>Ceci n'est pas une cig

hi paola

brilliant!!   a triple pun!!   ren? magritte would be proud of you

well, i guess that was sufficiently off-topic to require a tip...

<tip>
here's how to do a "smart" nav bar using SSI

at the top of each page, set a variable called "thisis"

    <!--#set var="thisis" value="${DOCUMENT_NAME}" -->

then create an include file for the nav bar as follows

   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /home/" -->Home
      <!--#else --><a href="home.html">Home</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /products/" -->Products
      <!--#else --><a href="products.html">Products</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /faq/" -->FAQ
      <!--#else --><a href="faq.html">FAQ</a><!--#endif -->
   <!--#if expr="$thisis = /contact/" -->Contact
      <!--#else --><a href="contact.html">Contact</a><!--#endif -->

then just copy the nav bar include file into every page

   <!--#include file="navbar.shtml" -->

note that the include file has to get processed by SSI

on the Home page, Home is text, not a link, and so on...
</tip>


rudy.ca




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue May 22 18:33:23 2001
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue May 22 18:33:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Auto-responders?
References: <B72EEF8D.2D84%colin_mitchell@wgbh.org> <016301c0e2c9$7ca3fe40$7fa0b3c7@iibiz> <3B0A7998.EDEFBC9F@webtuitive.com> <01f101c0e2d6$f4b8bbc0$7fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <3B0AF6D2.1BA1D453@webtuitive.com>

sales at iibiz.com wrote:

> Here's the code from the top of the form:
> 
> <FORM METHOD="post" ACTION="http://cgi.nac.net/cgi-bin/domail.pl">

> What would I need to do?

The name of this program (and the form fields) imply that this Perl
program should be sending mail; if it's not, what *is* it doing? Is 
it something you can post the source to?

-- 
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com 
Webtuitive Design ---(+1) 408-938-0567 --- http://www.webtuitive.com

    -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --



From sgd at ti3.com  Tue May 22 18:34:33 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue May 22 18:34:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in
	 an Application Variable?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D7B@gate.ti3.com>

AFAIK, ADO Recordsets aren't thread happy, so don't do it. A disconnected
recordset may be okay, but I've not played with it. You could do a couple
things to work around it, 1) use GetRows() and store it as a two dimensional
array, or 2) store it as XML (ADO 2.5 provides easy in-out) ...

I strongly suggest staying away from the recordset at the Application level.
--Same thing as using it at the Session level: you render your IIS server to
one thread....

sgd

> Basically, what I would do (if you can) is create the display of the
> data in the recordset and store *that* in an application variable.
> Or, spit the recordset into something lighter like an array:
...
> Storing the recordset in the Application object is generally not a
> Good Thing(tm) and if you can avoid it, avoid it. ;-)




From web at master.gen.in.us  Tue May 22 18:48:13 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Tue May 22 18:48:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] statistics on browser usage
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010522180636.009ef290@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3B0AC3B6.446.1147B813@localhost>

On 22 May 2001, at 18:12, meta.chris posted a message which said:

> are there any good statistics on which browsers are being used? i know it's 
> a given that IE is the most common, but which version (4.*, 5.*)?  how 
> about netscape (4.*,etc.)?  sorry if this question has been posted many 
> times before.

Yes, it's been asked many times before, but when I took college
physics in 1970, they pointed out that while they never change
the tests, the answers change from year to year. And day to day.

Here's the results for yesterday at my busiest site. It's optimized
for Mozilla/2, and browsers like Lynx and MSIE/2 don't like tables,
so it's somewhat skewed in that regard. Traffic is mostly adult,
18-60, and probably 70% female.

And I have *no* idea why I am over-run with WebTV users recently.
They historically have only run about 4-5%. Maybe it's a matter of
WebTV users passing links to each other?

 0.14%    MSIE/3.x
 6.88%    MSIE/4.x
64.13%    MSIE/5.x
 0.66%    MSIE/6.x
 0.93%    Netscape/3.x
14.50%    Netscape/4.x
 0.95%    Netscape/6.x
10.64%    WebTV
 1.21%    Other

deke

------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From paul_dewey at hotmail.com  Tue May 22 18:48:23 2001
From: paul_dewey at hotmail.com (Paul Dewey)
Date: Tue May 22 18:48:23 2001
Subject: OT:Re: [thelist] DHTML
Message-ID: <F127fPmsSVhGOD6gx3l0000c960@hotmail.com>

>From: Jacob Stetser <lists at icongarden.com>
>Subject: Re: [thelist] DHTML
>Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:26:59 -0400
>
>REAL Short Answer:
>A recruiter wrote the job description ;)
>>
>>Short Answer-
>>They want you to know how to do it from scratch.
>>

Is that saying I am a recruiter? If so I take it as an insult and a 
compliment, I think.  I am not a recruiter, but a web developer.

<cheap plug>
But if there are recruiters out there I am always looking for a side job in 
the Portland, Oregon area!
</cheap plug>

Paul

<tip author="Paul" subject="Faster Development">
Seven Techniques for Better, Faster Development
Orginally author was Richard M. Marshall
1. Understand your users and their needs.
2. Understand your whole code base.
3. Work well with others
4. Know whom to ask.
5. Inspect your code.
6. Test and fix as you go.
7. Know your tools.
Whole article is located on http://www/devx.com
</tip>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From web at master.gen.in.us  Tue May 22 18:58:13 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Tue May 22 18:58:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] RFC Q
In-Reply-To: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B0AC60C.4041.1150D6FF@localhost>

On 22 May 2001, at 23:58, Jakob D?lling posted a message which said:

> one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to put the "signature"
> at the end of the mail and what's the title of that RFC?

RFC 1855, "Netiquette guidelines" specifies a signature of up to four
lines, 65 characters each, for email.  

For USENET, it refers to a having a signature, but does not specify a
size limit. 

I think the idea is that you likely have an ongoing relationship with an
email correspondent, and less of a sign is needed, while USENET
posts have to stand on their own. 

Others seem to think that it was an omission. I don't believe that. 
If I don't make errors, why should I imagine that S. Hambridge of 
the Intel corporation would make errors? Especially if they don't
involve floating-point arithmetic?

deke

<tip type="quick information">
While lists are exceptionally good for getting opinions and 
advice, you often can get factual information much more 
quickly simply by googling for it.
</tip>




------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From headlemur at qwest.net  Tue May 22 19:53:39 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Tue May 22 19:53:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Food for Thought
Message-ID: <031401c0e322$ac5022a0$0b646464@qwest.net>

An Interesting article on eyetrack research.

Eyetrack Research
The results of the Poynter-Stanford Project are in. 
http://www.poynter.org/eyetrack2000/index.htm






From jnabring at yahoo.com  Tue May 22 22:48:54 2001
From: jnabring at yahoo.com (Janet Nabring-Stager)
Date: Tue May 22 22:48:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Re:The Mail Editor in the ASP PAGES
In-Reply-To: <001e45639201651BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <20010523034916.21344.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com>

Not certain if this is ActiveX, but the CDONTS object should work for
you...
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/022700-1.2.shtml

If that's not an option, this article discusses a few more options:
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/aspfaqs/ShowFAQ.asp?FAQID=14

On another note, but the same topic, does anyone have experience
using CDONTS?  I finally successfully used it today, after much of
the 'banging my head against the proverbial wall' action.  My problem
was that the FROM field of the object HAD to contain an e-mail
address in order for it to process from the NT server to my e-mail
account.  This was on an intranet and the e-mail had just a text
field in the FROM field and kept not going to my e-mail account,
until I put an e-mail address in the field.  Is this a CDONTS
requirement, or something that the web server requires?
TIA-

--- Jai Singh Tanwar <jaytanwar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Does any one know about some good Com component
> which can Add the MailEditor/MailEditing Facilites to the
> Asp pages.Preferably it Should not bethe activeX .


=====
Janet Nabring-Stager
http://www10.ewebcity.com/jnabring

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 23:01:34 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue May 22 23:01:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Re:The Mail Editor in the ASP PAGES
In-Reply-To: <20010523034916.21344.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <001e45639201651BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <3B0AFCBB.14591.3DBEB056@localhost>

> From: Janet Nabring-Stager <jnabring at yahoo.com>
[...]
> On another note, but the same topic, does anyone have experience
> using CDONTS?  I finally successfully used it today, after much of the
> 'banging my head against the proverbial wall' action.  My problem was
> that the FROM field of the object HAD to contain an e-mail address in
> order for it to process from the NT server to my e-mail account.  This
> was on an intranet and the e-mail had just a text field in the FROM
> field and kept not going to my e-mail account, until I put an e-mail
> address in the field.  Is this a CDONTS requirement, or something that
> the web server requires? TIA-

i believe CDONTS requires a full email address -- @ and all...

however, ASPMail and ASPQMail exist on most ISPs that do NT 
hosting, and it's relatively cheap to use in-house as well... but even 
if you don't get it, CDONTS will usually do quite well on the basic 
email script... just don't count on it to be robust or fool-proof...



From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 23:09:39 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue May 22 23:09:39 2001
Subject: Windows-Installation (was Re: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was:  Downloading .jpg & .pdf files))
In-Reply-To: <3B0AC0C7.BD2BAF7E@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B0AFEA1.15853.3DC61B3E@localhost>

> From: Jakob D?lling <alligotar at gmx.net>
[...] 
> BTW: <TIP typ="WebTV name="Jakob Doelling">WebTV is IE5 as WebTV.net
> is a daughter company of Mc$oft</tip>- I did looked it up in my
> personal server logs. Opera seems also to make use of the IE engine.

erm, methinks you're confused on this one...

WebTV is a different animal than IE... *completely* different... the 
core browser was written before MS bought them out... as such, 
you can go to WebTV's developer section 
(http://developer.webtv.net/) and read up on it... after all, there's no 
way WebTV could run the IE5.x bloatware engine...

and Opera does not make use of the IE engine, either... otherwise 
their claim to being the "fastest browser on earth" would seem a bit 
suspect...

if you are relying on server logs to tell you the browser, it's not 
always accurate, since browsers like Opera can fake their User 
Agent string... also, you'll note a lot of browsers have the word 
'mozilla' in them, which just means that years ago they 
masqueraded as Navigator for a while, and kept in there thanks to 
all the archaic scripts that check on the User Agent (there are 
other reasons, but that's too long of a discussion)...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue May 22 23:17:59 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue May 22 23:17:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
In-Reply-To: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPKENMCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
References: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7>
Message-ID: <3B0B0093.1406.3DCDB2D6@localhost>

somebody else already suggested the Photoshop web photo 
gallery... the layout and HTML leave a lot to be desired, but 15 
minutes with a good text editor and some nice s-n-r/regex, and 
you've got yerself a nice gallery, with that hardest parts done...

> From: "Ron White" <ronwhite at members.evolt.org>
>
> How about the simplest? You have N photos, load them all into a
> directory and then Photo1 has links to photo2 <next> and
> photoN<previous>, 2 has 3<next> and 1<previous etc until you get to
> photoN which has photo1<next> and photoN-1<previous>

i was gonna suggest this as well... the advantage is, you can use a 
for loop to have it decrement/increment the current number for the 
previous/next buttons, while the current number displays that 
image... no need for a db and all that hassle, just seems like over-
engineering to me...

just have your logic in your loop to start over at 1 once you get to 
the end (for incrementing/decrementing)...

what server-side languages you got available?




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Tue May 22 23:45:39 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (Isaac Forman)
Date: Tue May 22 23:45:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF (SQL?): query.columnlist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010518153346.0256eec0@alphashop.com>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNICELDCFAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>

judah,

funnily enough, i'm working on something very similar to automate building
forms and writing to the db. the way i'm doing it is using a table (FIELD)
to define what elements each item will require.

FIELD
id
typeid (foreign key)
name (name of field in db)
form (which form element to use: text, date (day/month/year dropdowns),
richtext, smalltextarea, largetextarea)
datatype (date, memo, integer, text)
title (appears above the form element in the edit template)
info (appears in small text below form element - used to pass warning/alert
msgs)
maxlength (defines maxlength for text inputs)
validate (not being used currently, but defines the validation method to
use)

there is probably one intermediate step on top of your method, but i imagine
the advantage would be the ability to specify validation methods (ie,
validate a text string as a phone number or email address), maxlength, title
and info.

so far, it appears to be working fairly well. i can add a table to the
database, define the fields in the FIELD table, and all of the displaying,
editing, updating, adding, etc are all taken care of. much less hassle than
the way i was doing everything originally.

for example, if i have a TYPE of "User", they might have various fields -
firstname, lastname, email, password, phone, mobile, info, etc. for each of
those fields, there is an entry in the FIELD table with typeid equal to that
of the user type.

currently, the form elements are output in the order the fields are added to
the db, but it would be very easy to add another ranking/sequence column
that would allow you to specify the ordering.


isaac




From sfmalo at msn.com  Tue May 22 23:55:14 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Tue May 22 23:55:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
References: <20010522235904-r01010600-11768f4b@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <00d501c0e344$74d87d00$a5ed0a3f@oemcomputer>

Matt wrote:
> > Then, using this value could take care of the Netscape problem of
"hiking
> > up" a line especially when dealing with unordered lists?
>
> Which version of Netscape? and what do you mean by 'hiking up'

NN4.7. After the last <li> in an unordered list, I.E. displays correct
spacing between the <li> and the beginning of the next line of text. In
NN4.7 the next line of text "hikes up" or squeezes up so there is less space
displayed. So would setting a specific line-height in CSS take care of that
problem?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From framar at interlog.com  Wed May 23 02:16:00 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed May 23 02:16:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
Message-ID: <p05001900b731122ca03d@[24.43.66.191]>

Question for those who are experienced shell script writers:

What would you recommend as the top three URL's to go to to learn 
shell script basics?

At the moment, I'm running a Linux box, I want to make a copy of all 
my accounts httpdocs folders, and tell mysql to create a dump for 
each account's DB's in the account backup folder.

At first, I don't mind if I have to edit the file when adding or 
deleting accounts, but it seems to be a pain in the butt to have to 
edit the file every time I want to run it.

I would like to create a new directory with the date and time, then 
move all the accounts and dumps into it. I can then create an 
AppleScript to download them to my Mac and burn CD's.

Suggestions? Thanks!
-- 

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com



From evolt at befrance.com  Wed May 23 04:15:25 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Wed May 23 04:15:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
References: <20010522213506.5856.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c0e368$d182fb60$3601a8c0@tatooine>

----- Original Message -----
From: "kalyani deshpande" <kalyanideshpande at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: [thelist] DHTML


> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a budding web designer/developer and in the
> process of learning DHTML and wanted to know whether
> designers/developers actually *create* dhtml code from
> scratch or whether they get it off of websites.

I write it from scratch, since it's just about interactions between
Javascript, HTML and the DOM... Once you know those three, you know DHTML :)

Guillaume Cocatre-Zilgien
Web Developer

skamp at befrance.com
UIN #77738266




From evolt at befrance.com  Wed May 23 04:22:50 2001
From: evolt at befrance.com (skamp)
Date: Wed May 23 04:22:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Internet Experience Consultant (was : DHTML)
References: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com> <a05100300b730a593bf50@[24.6.124.169]>
Message-ID: <004a01c0e369$db0ce320$3601a8c0@tatooine>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Stetser" <lists at icongarden.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] DHTML


> --
> Jacob Stetser :: jms at icongarden.com
> Internet Experience Consultant

What is an Internet Experience Consultant ???

<tip type="Stylesheets and input tags">
Use stylesheets on <input type="xxx"> with caution. They will look very nice
on MSIE, but less on Opera, and won't even work on Netscape, especially if
you added the attributes border, background-color. A <select> element won't
be usable on N4 if you added those attributes.
</tip>




From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Wed May 23 04:24:35 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Wed May 23 04:24:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: other CSS2 question
In-Reply-To: <00d501c0e344$74d87d00$a5ed0a3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20010523102036-r01010600-7000776f@10.0.0.15>

On 22/5/01 at 9:54 pm, sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo) wrote:
 
> NN4.7. After the last <li> in an unordered list, I.E. displays correct
> spacing between the <li> and the beginning of the next line of text. In
> NN4.7 the next line of text "hikes up" or squeezes up so there is less space
> displayed. So would setting a specific line-height in CSS take care of that
> problem?

I don't think it will: I had similar (I think) problems with the space between
paragraphs, where I'd styled paras so that they had more interlinear space than
normal. Then, in the gap between paras this increased space wasn't honoured - so
the lines had gotten closer together. Because line-height wasn't honoured at the
ends of paras adding more didn't make any difference... the only workaround I
found was to add either margin or padding to the top of the paras, which forced
the extra space that should have been there all along...

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Well,' said Pooh, 'if I plant a honeycomb outside my house, then 
it will grow up into a beehive.'
   Piglet wasn't quite sure about this.
   'Or a piece of a honeycomb, so as not to waste too much. Only then 
I might only get a piece of a beehive, and it might be the wrong piece,
where the bees were buzzing and not hunnying. Bother.'



From lists at icongarden.com  Wed May 23 05:38:37 2001
From: lists at icongarden.com (Jacob Stetser)
Date: Wed May 23 05:38:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Internet Experience Consultant (was : DHTML)
In-Reply-To: <004a01c0e369$db0ce320$3601a8c0@tatooine>
References: <F68DskqC5EtrUVYKkpL000147ac@hotmail.com>
 <a05100300b730a593bf50@[24.6.124.169]>
 <004a01c0e369$db0ce320$3601a8c0@tatooine>
Message-ID: <a05100e00b73141237518@[24.6.124.169]>

My focus is in the area of developing usable, user-focused web 
applications and presences - a web developer with a good 
understanding of design and usability. I help the user's "internet 
experience" of a site, see? :)

It's either that, or Independent Web Developer, and I think I like 
IEC better :)

What do you think of it? My "new identity" is still a work in 
progress. I've been working in the web industry since 1996 and 
moonlighting since about then as well.. However, as a result of a 
recent employment change (see below), I'm moving into full-time 
consulting, unless something REALLY COOL comes along - <hint="I'm 
moving to Boston soon, so full-time in Atlanta is out." />

<noteForPosterity>
By the way, I no longer work for Headhunter.net. I thoroughly enjoyed 
my time there and learned a lot about the functioning of a successful 
web enterprise. However, even during this time of internet opulence 
and overabundance, some companies have found it necessary to trim 
their ranks. As part of a recent shift in Headhunter's marketing 
strategy, I was among the trimmed.
</noteForPosterity>

Anyhow, thanks for asking!
>
>>  --
>>  Jacob Stetser :: jms at icongarden.com
>>  Internet Experience Consultant
>
>What is an Internet Experience Consultant ???
>
<tip type="getting started in consulting">
Don't be afraid to email/contact all your friends and family at first 
- they'll probably pleasantly surprise you by how much they're 
willing to help, and by who they know!

Some web sites:
http://guru.com
http://elance.com
http://sologig.com
</tip>
-- 
Jacob Stetser :: jms at icongarden.com
Internet Experience Consultant

icongarden.com: Making good ideas grow!



From tech at az-ink.com.mt  Wed May 23 06:07:02 2001
From: tech at az-ink.com.mt (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Wed May 23 06:07:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] [DHTML] pixelLeft in IE5
In-Reply-To: <3B0AE222.EB70ECCA@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <B7316684.9631%tech@az-ink.com.mt>

I have struggled too long with this:

trying to move a position:relative <div> clipped in an other <div> ...

>to move <div id='gallery'>:
    function gallery (MYitem, x) { //...
    position = document.all.gallery.style.pixelLeft;
    document.all.gallery.style.pixelLeft = position + Number(x);
    //...

>with button:
    <a href="javascript:void(0)" alt="left"
    onClick="slideleft('gallery','-100')">

I am focusing on IE 4+ (Mac) for now. This works in IE4.0.1 but gets busted
in IE5. It seems as if the block moves absolute to window instead of
relative to its container but when the mouse moves off the button it
refreshes to the correct position.

Joseph

ps I have been trying to find some solution on the web for days to no
avail... (I ordered Javascript Bible ed.4 but will be here in 2 weeks+)




From web at master.gen.in.us  Wed May 23 06:21:46 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Wed May 23 06:21:46 2001
Subject: Windows-Installation (was Re: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was:  Downloading .jpg & .pdf files))
In-Reply-To: <3B0AFEA1.15853.3DC61B3E@localhost>
References: <3B0AC0C7.BD2BAF7E@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3B0B664E.28630.268A4D1@localhost>

On 23 May 2001, at 0:04, aardvark posted a message which said:

> > BTW: <TIP typ="WebTV name="Jakob Doelling">WebTV is IE5 as WebTV.net
> > is a daughter company of Mc$oft</tip>- I did looked it up in my
> > personal server logs. Opera seems also to make use of the IE engine.
 
> erm, methinks you're confused on this one...
 
> WebTV is a different animal than IE... *completely* different... the 
> core browser was written before MS bought them out... as such, 
> you can go to WebTV's developer section 
> (http://developer.webtv.net/) and read up on it... after all, there's no 
> way WebTV could run the IE5.x bloatware engine...

The developer.webtv.net site needs updating; most of it hasn't
changed since the Build 2.6 browser came out in February.

The newest build of the WebTV browser (2.6) claims to be 
MSIE/4.  The Jellyscript tries to be compatible with MSIE/4's 
jscript; prior versions of the WebTV browser tried to mimic 
javascript. 

Whether it *is* MSIE/4 or not is a matter of semantics. MSIE/4
was different on the Win32 platform than the Mac platform, and
it is still different on the Windows CE platform. I suppose if MS
calls it MSIE, then it's MSIE.  The new Classic browser doesn't 
understand all the tags that the Plus does - IFRAME being one
obvious example - and the developer.webtv.net site says that
the Plus has CSS1 while the Classic doesn't, but the Classic
in fact *does* have some CSS1 capabilities.
 
Incidently, a number of people are still using Build 2.4 or Build
2.5.5.  Those running the original two models - Magnavox MAT960 
and Sony INT-W100  - of WebTV *cannot* upgrade to 2.6; there 
simply isn't the hardware to support it.

deke


------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From peter at vardus.com  Wed May 23 07:59:32 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Wed May 23 07:59:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] apache config on windows - virtual doms
In-Reply-To: <0002c5106031351BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010523135502.0242b480@mail.vardus.net>

Hi all,
I have Apache set up running happily on Windows NT, and I'm setting up 
virtual domains. They work ok, but any directory that doesn't have and 
index file in it gives a FORBIDDEN server error. Some of those dirs just 
have a htaccess file in them with some apache rewrite stuff, that was 
working before I used the virtual domains. Others were working as well, 
showing a list of files, but now they give the error.

I'm not very experienced (at all) with Apache, any hints/ideas?? Thanks!
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed May 23 09:13:42 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed May 23 09:13:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP/ADO/SQL: Is it Possible to Store a Recordset in an Application Variable?
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492D7B@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <002201c0e392$a2c3b880$2860398a@newcos.com>

Scott,

> I strongly suggest staying away from the recordset at the Application
level.
> --Same thing as using it at the Session level: you render your IIS server
to
> one thread....

    If a recordset is, in fact, limited to a single thread, that would be a
huge drawback. At this point, I think the two-dimensional array looks safer.
Thanks for the warning.

James Aylard




From djc at starkmedia.com  Wed May 23 09:22:52 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed May 23 09:22:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
References: <p05001900b731122ca03d@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <3B0BC745.FA271FD4@starkmedia.com>

Hey Frank - 

If you're using Linux, you're probably using the bash shell.. Go to the
source for that.. Lots of good info at
http://www.gnu.org/manual/bash/html_chapter/bashref_toc.html itsa  bit
dry in places, but you should do ok.

a lot of my personal scripting focuses on 3 pieces of software.. 
awk(gawk)(my personal favorite):
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
(wrap)and  http://vectorsite.tripod.com/tsawk0.html

sed: http://www.ptug.org/sed/sedfaq.htm

and grep: http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue18/1149.html

those should get you started for now.. There are also a couple shell
scripting articles on the evolt site that anthony and i have written
over the years.. You may be able to grep ;) some usefull info out of
those.. And of course, you can always ask here :)

Good luck 

.djc.

Frank wrote:
> 
> Question for those who are experienced shell script writers:
> 
> What would you recommend as the top three URL's to go to to learn
> shell script basics?
> 
> At the moment, I'm running a Linux box, I want to make a copy of all
> my accounts httpdocs folders, and tell mysql to create a dump for
> each account's DB's in the account backup folder.
> 
> At first, I don't mind if I have to edit the file when adding or
> deleting accounts, but it seems to be a pain in the butt to have to
> edit the file every time I want to run it.
> 
> I would like to create a new directory with the date and time, then
> move all the accounts and dumps into it. I can then create an
> AppleScript to download them to my Mac and burn CD's.
> 
> Suggestions? Thanks!



From djc at starkmedia.com  Wed May 23 09:28:57 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed May 23 09:28:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] apache config on windows - virtual doms
References: <4.3.2.20010523135502.0242b480@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <3B0BC8B6.1A93D@starkmedia.com>

Hey Peter - 

Sounds like you don't have directory indexes turned on for those virtual
users. No prob though :)

Lets say you have all your users in d:/apache/users/user1/html_root
d:/apache/users/user2/html_root and so on. You'll need to enable the
Indexes option for all those directories. Luckily, apache gives you a
nice way to do this:

<Directory d:/apache/users/*/html_root> 
    AllowOverride All
    Options Indexes
</Directory>
(I have no idea if the win32 apache needs the drive letter up there,
sorry)

in your httpd.conf file will allow for Indexes for
d:/apache/users/*/html_root .. this could also be done on a directory by
directory basis too with the use of an .htaccess file in each of those
directories, with something similar to that above as the contents of the
.htaccess.

Hope that helps out, shout if you have any more questions :)

.djc.

Peter Van Dijck wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I have Apache set up running happily on Windows NT, and I'm setting up
> virtual domains. They work ok, but any directory that doesn't have and
> index file in it gives a FORBIDDEN server error. Some of those dirs just
> have a htaccess file in them with some apache rewrite stuff, that was
> working before I used the virtual domains. Others were working as well,
> showing a list of files, but now they give the error.
> 
> I'm not very experienced (at all) with Apache, any hints/ideas?? Thanks!
> Peter



From johannah at hubal.com  Wed May 23 10:30:18 2001
From: johannah at hubal.com (Johannah Hubal)
Date: Wed May 23 10:30:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
Message-ID: <CLEDLMJIAMIOLLGEEJMJGEODCDAA.johannah@hubal.com>

Hey folks!

I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and am looking for links.
Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm missing some. I should
never have let my sub to "Contract Professional" lapse! I used to get so
many links from that mag...

http://www.guru.com
http://www.nettemps.com
http://www.dice.com
http://www.elance.com
http://www.freeagent.com
http://www.sologig.com
http://talentmarket.monster.com
http://www.contract-jobs.com/
http://www.hotjobs.com
http://www.computerwork.com
http://www.aquent.com
http://www.adecco.com
http://allfreelance.com/
http://www.hireability.com/
http://www.direct-jobs.com/
http://www.creativemoonlighter.com/
http://www.jobserve.com/
http://www.techies.com/
http://www.skillsvillage.com/
http://www.computerjobs.com/
http://www.brainbuzz.com/
http://www.webjobsusa.com/


Thanks!

--Johannah.




From Abbey at abbeyink.com  Wed May 23 10:33:58 2001
From: Abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Wed May 23 10:33:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] XHTML tip
In-Reply-To: <KGEBLFHELNIFONLFOJNCAEIJCBAA.moni@teamsphere.com>
References: <20010518223107.81F47E33@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523101723.00a2d260@mail.abbeyink.com>

Hi all,

Just did some stat checking this morning and found a pile of 404s. Ran it 
through the link checker at the W3C (http://validator.w3.org/checklink) and 
my XHTML DTD at the top of the page was not right.

I was using the DTD from the W3C and I just looked again, they leave the 
url off which was bouncing a 404 to the web site so, in case someone else 
doesn't know, here's a bit of a tip I guess for XHTML trans and PHP:

<tip type="validating XHTML" author "tamara">

Use this for validating XHTML and hopefully avoid 404 errors:

<!DOCTYPE html
	PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
   	"DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"
  	"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">

</tip>

Hope this helps someone anyway. And I'm switching /all/ headers to php 
includes beginning NOW!
8-)
tamara




From razorwise at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 10:35:48 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Wed May 23 10:35:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] phpMyAdmin (was PHP MySql)
In-Reply-To: <B73052C0.760D%max@munkandphyber.com>
Message-ID: <20010523153610.72959.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>

Regarding the phpMyAdmin, first a clarification on Max's comments...> 

Here it details how to do it (from the Install Notes-->


  + If you don't use the extension ".php3" for your scripts, you can use
    the bundled script "extchg.sh" to modify phpMyAdmin (or any other script)
    to work with a different extension. Beware though, that currently changing 
    the extension from .html to something other won't work (it'd change all 
    "string".htmlspecialchars() constructs).

* * *

Max wrote,
> If you tinker with the source, you cut yourself off from the development
> project as a whole.  in other words, new patches, versions, etc. will break
> when you try to just drop the patches in.
> 
> in this case (phpMyAdmin), no one but you (and co-administrators) should
> even be looking at the program; certainly as developers and designers we
> shouldn't shrug off the aesthetics of in-house work, but in this case, don't
> worry too much about the .php3 vs .php extensions.  Functionally, both work
> just as well and (in fact) .php3 is more compatible - useful when you don't
> have control of the host.
 
I think I've almost got this figured out...

Later,

Sean



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Wed May 23 10:40:48 2001
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Wed May 23 10:40:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] .html vs .shtml
Message-ID: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB50@fort.cygnuspub.com>

Does the silence indicate this is impossible?  :/

Pete


> ----------
> From: 	Pete Prodoehl
> Subject: 	[thelist] .html vs .shtml
> 
> 
> When I use Apache, it's fairly easy to map .html to be processed for
> server
> side includes, so I can have all file named with an .html extension and
> not
> have a mix of .shtml and .html
> 
> Can this be done in IIS? We host a number of sites, can this be controlled
> on a per-site basis, or would it be global on the server? 
> 
> thanks...
> 
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
_____________________________________________________
For more information about Cygnus Business Media, please visit our 
Web site at www.cygnusb2b.com






From joshua at alphashop.net  Wed May 23 10:46:28 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Wed May 23 10:46:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] .html vs .shtml
References: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFB50@fort.cygnuspub.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c0e39f$e009fcb0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

On IIS 5.0 you can map any extension to any server-side parsing engine on a
site-by-site basis.  I don't know about Apache.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Prodoehl" <pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] .html vs .shtml


:
: Does the silence indicate this is impossible?  :/
:
: Pete
:
: > When I use Apache, it's fairly easy to map .html to be processed for
: > server
: > side includes, so I can have all file named with an .html extension and
: > not
: > have a mix of .shtml and .html
: >
: > Can this be done in IIS? We host a number of sites, can this be
controlled
: > on a per-site basis, or would it be global on the server?
: >
: > thanks...





From damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk  Wed May 23 11:26:48 2001
From: damien.cola at synaptique.co.uk (Damien Cola)
Date: Wed May 23 11:26:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
In-Reply-To: <CLEDLMJIAMIOLLGEEJMJGEODCDAA.johannah@hubal.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEIKILJODKDPBMBFCEBOCCAA.damien.cola@synaptique.co.uk>

add http://www.freelance.com
http://www.scriptlance.com
what about http://www.monster.com

<tip>
the end of comments in HTML is
// -->
note that
//--> brings up a javascript error in netscape.
That is nice to know, even if I read that XHTML won't use comments to hide
from old browsers..
</tip>

> Hey folks!
>
> I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and am looking for links.
> Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm missing some. I should
> never have let my sub to "Contract Professional" lapse! I used to get so
> many links from that mag...




From wolfboy69 at earthlink.net  Wed May 23 11:42:28 2001
From: wolfboy69 at earthlink.net (Michael Wolfe)
Date: Wed May 23 11:42:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
In-Reply-To: <CLEDLMJIAMIOLLGEEJMJGEODCDAA.johannah@hubal.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010523094643.00a7e890@mail.earthlink.net>

At 11:29 AM 5/23/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey folks!
>
>I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and am looking for links.
>Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm missing some. I should
>never have let my sub to "Contract Professional" lapse! I used to get so
>many links from that mag...


http://www.ework.com   <shameless plug>





___________________
Michael Wolfe
Senior Software Engineer

http://www.ework.com
mwolfe at ework.com






From cache at dowebs.com  Wed May 23 12:04:49 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Wed May 23 12:04:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
References: <20010522213506.5856.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com> <003c01c0e368$d182fb60$3601a8c0@tatooine>
Message-ID: <3B0BEE3D.61AC13A4@dowebs.com>

> > I'm a budding web designer/developer and in the
> > process of learning DHTML and wanted to know whether
> > designers/developers actually *create* dhtml code from
> > scratch or whether they get it off of websites.

most of the dhtml i find on websites is incomprehensible babble. it's
easier to learn to roll your own than it is to try to figure out how
some wysiwyg did something. visit http://www.dynamicdrive.com/ for a
bunch of scripts that may not be useful as they are but will give you an
idea how things work when you screw around with them. although i don't
have it you might also get peachpit press's dhtml quickstart just to get
oriented. once you get the touch for doing it yourself you'll find it's
easier to roll your own and they taste better.

keith



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed May 23 12:21:39 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed May 23 12:21:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] VBScript Arrays: Can I Determine the Number of Dimensions via Script?
Message-ID: <00b201c0e3ac$e2547600$2860398a@newcos.com>

    I am working with VBScript arrays, and can't see any way (looking
through Microsoft's VBScript 5.5 Reference) to determine by script how many
dimensions an array has. Please note, I am not talking about how many values
are stored in the array, but how many dimensions the array contains.
    The only way that comes to mind is to set On Error Resume Next, create a
loop that UBounds successive dimensions of an array, and when an error is
generated (because a given dimension doesn't exist) to exit the loop. That
seems very inelegant, however.
    Any suggestions?

James Aylard




From java_fella at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 12:49:59 2001
From: java_fella at yahoo.com (Thomas Granger)
Date: Wed May 23 12:49:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
Message-ID: <20010523175014.21768.qmail@web3208.mail.yahoo.com>

Here's an article on Freelancing, getting paid, and
setting rates..

http://www.florentinedesign.com/articles/march_bus_01.htm

webdesign.about.co also had a session about
Freelancing not too long ago.

>>I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and
>>am looking for 
>>links.
>>Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm
>>missing some. 







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From chris at completeimaging.com  Wed May 23 12:55:50 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed May 23 12:55:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
In-Reply-To: <CLEDLMJIAMIOLLGEEJMJGEODCDAA.johannah@hubal.com>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDKEFHCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Can you let us know when you have finished the article and where it is
posted? I would be interested in reading it when you are done.

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
Hey folks!

I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and am looking for links.
Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm missing some. I should
never have let my sub to "Contract Professional" lapse! I used to get so
many links from that mag...




From mike at tokenzone.com  Wed May 23 13:03:35 2001
From: mike at tokenzone.com (Michael Stevens)
Date: Wed May 23 13:03:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDKEFHCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <PEEFINEOJCNKLJFFDDFCOEFDCCAA.mike@tokenzone.com>

I was just going to ask the same thing.  :)

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:57 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Freelance sites


Can you let us know when you have finished the article and where it is
posted? I would be interested in reading it when you are done.

Thanks,
Chris



From kirneh74 at hem.passagen.se  Wed May 23 13:09:45 2001
From: kirneh74 at hem.passagen.se (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Wed May 23 13:09:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: RFC Q
In-Reply-To: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>
References: <3B0AE0FC.779EDD52@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <87wv787xcl.fsf@hem.passagen.se>

Jakob D?lling <alligotar at gmx.net>:
> Morn gang:
> 
> one quick question: in which RFC ist suggested, to put the "signature"
> at the end of the mail and what's the title of that RFC?

It isn't really a RFC, but all mail and newsreaders worth using follow this
one. 

<URL:http://quimby.gnus.org/notes/son-of-rfc1036.txt>

There is a replacement (which will become an actual RFC) in progress here:

<URL:http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-article-04.txt>

Note that a real signature separator is "^-- ". People who don't abide by this
(Hello Evolt) should repent as soon as possible.

Henrik
-- 
Soylent Green is People!



From johannah at hubal.com  Wed May 23 13:16:25 2001
From: johannah at hubal.com (Johannah Hubal)
Date: Wed May 23 13:16:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Freelance sites
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDKEFHCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <CLEDLMJIAMIOLLGEEJMJEEOMCDAA.johannah@hubal.com>

Sure, no problem!

<tip>
Managing your library: Most of us end up with huge collections of "how to"
books. Local libraries are glad to take your Dreamweaver 2.0 manual, as are
local high schools. Most used book stores will not purchase computer books
(since they become outdated rapidly), but you can give it a try. You also
might be able to recoup a minimal amount of your investment by selling them
on eBay. If you need charitable donation write-offs, give the books to the
Salvation Army or Goodwill.
</tip>


[Chris Johnston wrote:]
> Can you let us know when you have finished the article and where it is
> posted? I would be interested in reading it when you are done.

Thanks,
Chris

[Johannah Hubal wrote:]
> Hey folks!
>
>I'm writing an article on successful freelancing and am looking for links.
>Here's my compilation thus far, though I know I'm missing some. I should
>never have let my sub to "Contract Professional" lapse! I used to get so
>many links from that mag...




From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Wed May 23 13:25:35 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Wed May 23 13:25:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
Message-ID: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


Hello all!
I've been given a project that needs to go production in about 3 weeks.  Never
mind that the contractor had 3 months and didn't deliver... ;-)
So, the contractor developed this site in a stoopid way, *using a different
frameset for **every** page* !!  Now, any tips on how to eliminate all these
framesets while still maintaining the mouseover type of stuff going on in the
navigation? (different images indicate where you are)
Here's the URL so you can see how the menu system works:
http://172.20.92.14/be2/beweb2b.nsf/home.html?OpenPage

TIA!!!

-Ron Senykoff





From Abbey at abbeyink.com  Wed May 23 13:56:00 2001
From: Abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Wed May 23 13:56:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
In-Reply-To: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523135427.00a46a00@mail.abbeyink.com>

>So, the contractor developed this site in a stoopid way, *using a different
>frameset for **every** page* !!  Now, any tips on how to eliminate all these
>framesets while still maintaining the mouseover type of stuff going on in the
>navigation? (different images indicate where you are)

I can't get to the url you sent, but my favorite menu script is at: 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html

-->Miscellaneous Scripts
----------->Mouseover (for the initial phase)
---------->Click for the third level that has a different image for the 
current page

<tamara />




From filip at netdesign.se  Wed May 23 14:13:36 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Wed May 23 14:13:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] VBScript Arrays: Can I Determine the Number of Dimensions via Script?
In-Reply-To: <00b201c0e3ac$e2547600$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKCECIKKAA.filip@netdesign.se>

James Aylard:
>     I am working with VBScript arrays, and can't see
> any way (looking through Microsoft's VBScript 5.5
> Reference) to determine by script how many dimensions
> an array has.

Ironically, the solution is JScript. If you add this function to your code,
you can call it from your VBScript code as UDim(YourArray).

  <script language="JScript" runat="server">
    function UDim(vbarr) { return vbarr.dimensions(); }
  </script>

/filip




From web at master.gen.in.us  Wed May 23 14:41:40 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Wed May 23 14:41:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b731122ca03d@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <3B0BDB7A.21578.4326C03@localhost>

On 23 May 2001, at 3:16, Frank posted a message which said:

> What would you recommend as the top three URL's to go to to learn 
> shell script basics?

Top URL to learn *anything* is http://www.ora.com

If O'Reilly hasn't got a book on a subject, it ain't worth learning.
(Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)

deke


------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Wed May 23 14:52:50 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Wed May 23 14:52:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip (was Re: VBScript Arrays: Can... )
References: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKCECIKKAA.filip@netdesign.se>
Message-ID: <00a601c0e3c1$f9717710$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> James Aylard:
> >     I am working with VBScript arrays, and can't see
> > any way (looking through Microsoft's VBScript 5.5
> > Reference) to determine by script how many dimensions
> > an array has.
> 
> Ironically, the solution is JScript. If you add this function to
> your code, you can call it from your VBScript code as
> UDim(YourArray).
> 
>   <script language="JScript" runat="server">
>     function UDim(vbarr) { return vbarr.dimensions(); }
>   </script>

This needs to be a tip!

<tip author="Filip Salomonsson" rewrittenby="mwarden">
If you want to determine the number of dimensions in a given VBScript
or JScript array in ASP, try adding this function to your script,
which you can call from both JScript and VBScript in your ASP file:

<script language="JScript" runat="server">
  function UDim(vbarr) { return vbarr.dimensions(); }
</script>

</tip>



- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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From fahad753 at hotmail.com  Wed May 23 14:54:20 2001
From: fahad753 at hotmail.com (fahad almhmed)
Date: Wed May 23 14:54:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip (was Re: VBScript Arrays: Can... )
Message-ID: <F205kwtsQztQoPAzdaQ000028a5@hotmail.com>



>From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at odyssey-design.com>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] tip (was Re: VBScript Arrays: Can... )
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:53:00 -0400
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
> > James Aylard:
> > >     I am working with VBScript arrays, and can't see
> > > any way (looking through Microsoft's VBScript 5.5
> > > Reference) to determine by script how many dimensions
> > > an array has.
> >
> > Ironically, the solution is JScript. If you add this function to
> > your code, you can call it from your VBScript code as
> > UDim(YourArray).
> >
> >   <script language="JScript" runat="server">
> >     function UDim(vbarr) { return vbarr.dimensions(); }
> >   </script>
>
>This needs to be a tip!
>
><tip author="Filip Salomonsson" rewrittenby="mwarden">
>If you want to determine the number of dimensions in a given VBScript
>or JScript array in ASP, try adding this function to your script,
>which you can call from both JScript and VBScript in your ASP file:
>
><script language="JScript" runat="server">
>   function UDim(vbarr) { return vbarr.dimensions(); }
></script>
>
></tip>
>
>
>
>- --
>mattwarden
>mattwarden.com
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
>
>iQA/AwUBOwwVGXgH0dUmEhrcEQJNxwCfYZ4QO3iJv1kU1DuaQ9bnWhklaqwAoMqi
>XRA35TgcDszigtipINseNgKU
>=mdnL
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From morbus at disobey.com  Wed May 23 14:54:45 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed May 23 14:54:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
In-Reply-To: <3B0BDB7A.21578.4326C03@localhost>
References: <p05001900b731122ca03d@[24.43.66.191]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523155506.00a92ec0@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >If O'Reilly hasn't got a book on a subject, it ain't worth learning.
 >(Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)

Excuse me?! I learned everything I know about wimmen from this book:

    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/advbc/


Morbus Iff
.sig on other machine.
http://www.disobey.com/
http://www.gamegrene.com/




From razorwise at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 14:58:50 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Wed May 23 14:58:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] WAMP
Message-ID: <20010523195916.60293.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Okay Guys,

I've got Apache and PHP installed okay on my local box and want to add MySql now.  How do I do
this and where do I place the mySql files?

BTW,  I appreciate everyone that has been helping me muddle through this!

Sincerely,

Sean

Once I get the DB going, I've gotta figure how to run this to DB2, so if anyone might know that as
well...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From sgd at ti3.com  Wed May 23 15:04:35 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed May 23 15:04:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DA2@gate.ti3.com>

 
> If O'Reilly hasn't got a book on a subject, it ain't worth learning.
> (Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)

Wonder what the cover would be?

<duck>

Okay, that earns me a tip:

<tip>
in IIS5, use Server.Transfer instead Response.Redirect to move processing to
another ASP page. Bonus: Server.Transfer retains the Request object and its
data
</tip>

sgd



From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Wed May 23 15:07:25 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Wed May 23 15:07:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
Message-ID: <200105232007.f4NK7N025078@leo.evolt.org>

Hello all,

Being a newbie to setting up sites, can anyone provide a list of META 
tags which it is considered good practice to have eg caching, robots etc?

thanks

MarkC


This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly. 
We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.





From markgroen at telus.net  Wed May 23 15:08:05 2001
From: markgroen at telus.net (Mark Groen)
Date: Wed May 23 15:08:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
References: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <005201c0e3c1$a26b2ce0$bb81e8d8@telus.net>

Your URL doesn't work for me either, no matter what combination I apply
after your address: http://172.20.92.14


<snip>

Here's the URL so you can see how the menu system works:
http://172.20.92.14/be2/beweb2b.nsf/home.html?OpenPage

TIA!!!

-Ron Senykoff
</snip>




From r937 at interlog.com  Wed May 23 15:09:25 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed May 23 15:09:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
Message-ID: <01c0e3c4$4fdaac00$2d46149a@rudy>

>(Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)


yeah, that one ain't been written yet

i can contribute several chapters, though, except they won't do anybody any
good except me, and for me any advice along those lines is already too
little too late...

<tip>
a many-to-many database relationship is best visualized as two intersecting
heirarchies

skill -- person is 1-m
a skill may be possessed by several persons

person -- skill is 1-m
a person may possess several skills

the intersection is implemented in a "relationship" or "intersection" table
(a "junction" table in the old codasyl network database terminology)

the intersection table, personskill, is a child of both the skill table and
the person table simultaneously

add some skills
 01 html
 02 javascript
 03 css
 04 cf
 05 sql

add some persons
 934 joe
 935 fred
 936 mary
 937 rudy

add some personskills
 934 01
 934 03
 936 04
 937 04
 937 05

list the skills of a particular person
 select skillname
    from person join personskill join skill
   where personid=937
returns
 cf
 sql

list the persons who have a particular skill
 select personname
   from skill join personskill join person
    where skillid=03
returns
 joe

finding people who have a particular *set* of skills (e.g. 03 *and* 04) is
a little trickier but still straightforward (it involves subselects)

</tip>

rudy




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Wed May 23 15:11:50 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Wed May 23 15:11:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
In-Reply-To: <3B0BDB7A.21578.4326C03@localhost>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEAKCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Can't have a book on a subject that's impossible to ever learn... :-) 

Thanks,
Ron White 

<tip>
www.htmlguru.com is a good DHTML resource
</tip>

>(Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)





From chris at completeimaging.com  Wed May 23 15:14:15 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed May 23 15:14:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
In-Reply-To: <200105232007.f4NK7N025078@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEFKCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

<meta http-equiv="expires" content="-1">
<meta http-equiv= "pragma" content="no-cache">
<meta name="author" content=" ">
<meta name="copyright" content=" ">
<meta name="ROBOTS" content="ALL">
<meta name="description" content=" ">
<meta name="KEYWORDS" content=" ">

This should prove to be a good start.

Chris


> -----Original Message-----
> Hello all,
> 
> Being a newbie to setting up sites, can anyone provide a list of META 
> tags which it is considered good practice to have eg caching, robots etc?
> 
> thanks
> 
> MarkC




From filip at netdesign.se  Wed May 23 15:15:15 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Wed May 23 15:15:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] tip (was Re: VBScript Arrays: Can... )
In-Reply-To: <00a601c0e3c1$f9717710$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>
Message-ID: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKMECNKKAA.filip@netdesign.se>

Matt Warden:
> This needs to be a tip!

True.

> If you want to determine the number of dimensions in a given VBScript
> or JScript array in ASP, try adding this function to your script,
> which you can call from both JScript and VBScript in your ASP file:

Actually, it only applies to VBScript arrays. Multidimensional JScript
arrays are created and used somewhat differently and have/need no
"dimensions" property.

Hmm.. can a tip be redefined?

/filip




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Wed May 23 15:16:10 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Wed May 23 15:16:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] DHTML
In-Reply-To: <3B0BEE3D.61AC13A4@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPCEPMCGAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

www.htmlguru.com was where I learned DHTML...

Thanks,
Ron White 





From chris at completeimaging.com  Wed May 23 15:19:55 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed May 23 15:19:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache Problem - SSI below root
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEFLCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Hello,

I am having a small problem configuring Apache. (Yes, I am a newbie) I have
SSI running and I have mapped it to work with straight .htm files as well
.shtm files. The problem I am having is that it only works in the root
directory. If I create a .htm document in a folder below the root directory
and try to use a SSI, it don't work. I am trying to place the main
navigation bit of code in a document at the root and then have all other
documents (in the root or below) access and use that nav document.

OS: Windows 2000 Pro
Apache: 1.3.6

I also have another dumb question. Under windows you can not create a file
that is just an extension (i.e. .htaccess) I am assuming that you can give
the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

Thanks in advanced,

Chris

--------------
www.edigitaldesign.com
Taking Your Business to the Web

[Web Design] [ColdFusion] [Database Applications] [Hosting]





From morbus at disobey.com  Wed May 23 15:28:05 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed May 23 15:28:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache Problem - SSI below root
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEFLCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523162451.00a969d0@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >directory. If I create a .htm document in a folder below the root directory
 >and try to use a SSI, it don't work. I am trying to place the main
 >navigation bit of code in a document at the root and then have all other
 >documents (in the root or below) access and use that nav document.


Could you give us the config that you used to create the SSI? It sounds 
like you ended a directory with a "/" as opposed to without a slash, which 
should (?) limit it to just that directory. I don't have my book right in 
front of me though, so I can't remember for sure.

 >I also have another dumb question. Under windows you can not create a file
 >that is just an extension (i.e. .htaccess) I am assuming that you can give
 >the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
 >sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

Well, for Windows, yes, you can name it whatever you want, but when you 
upload it to Apache, under the default configuration, yes, it has to be 
".htaccess". You can however override this on Apache's end. See:

    http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#accessfilename

Hope that helps, binky...


Morbus Iff
.sig on other machine.
http://www.disobey.com/
http://www.gamegrene.com/




From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Wed May 23 15:32:20 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed May 23 15:32:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Best s-side language for pulling SAP data?
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F116@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Gang,


Is there a "best" server-side language for pulling data out of SAP?

I guess this comes down to asking if anyone is aware of any drivers for ASP,
CF, PHP, Perl, whatever ... for getting data out of an SAP data warehouse.
Specifically SAP 4.6's BW.


Thanks,

RonL.



From chris at completeimaging.com  Wed May 23 15:40:30 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed May 23 15:40:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache Problem - SSI below root
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523162451.00a969d0@red.totalnetnh.net>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDKEFMCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Thanks, I actually figured out my mistake on the SSI. I accidentally gave
the file in question a .cfm extension. And thank you for answering my dumb
question. The only servers I deal with are NT so there will be no problem
there.

Thanks again,

Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> Could you give us the config that you used to create the SSI? It sounds
> like you ended a directory with a "/" as opposed to without a
> slash, which
> should (?) limit it to just that directory. I don't have my book right in
> front of me though, so I can't remember for sure.
>
> Well, for Windows, yes, you can name it whatever you want, but when you
> upload it to Apache, under the default configuration, yes, it has to be
> ".htaccess". You can however override this on Apache's end. See:
>
>     http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#accessfilename
>
>
> Morbus Iff




From quackamoe at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 15:50:35 2001
From: quackamoe at yahoo.com (Quackamoe)
Date: Wed May 23 15:50:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <3AF80273.824F23A1@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <20010523205103.27205.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com>

Trying out some DHTML using Dan Steinman's Dynamic Duo
tutorial (http://www.dansteinman.com/dynduo/). 

I now have a car moving across the screen left to 
right. It works. But since users will have their 
browsers and monitors all different I need to get the 
inner width of the browser so I can stop the car right

when it reaches the right edge of the browser window.

I can get it for NN4x by using 
   
   if (ns4) redLight = window.innerWidth
   // heh heh, redLight to stop the car; get it??

but for IE5, 

   if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.offsetWidth
   if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.scrollWidth

don't work; window.innerWidth locks IE5 up, cuz 
it's NN only. Haven't looked at it in IE4,IE5.5, N6 
or Moz0.9 yet. I can do the last two, but only have 
IE5 installed.

I've looked in my JavaScript: the Definitive Guide,
3rd ed. to no avail. Hunted around the web for a
while - including the "MSDN Online Web Workshop"
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/default.asp).
No joy. So I'm turning to thelist. Where do I find
how get this value in IE? (Moz.9/N6 too). And why
does it only work on Saturdays? Or in NN4.74? And
a pointer on how to get the js to run automatically
when the page loads would be nice too. (Steinman's
approach already has an onLoad event in the body tag.)
And what should I do about my credit card debt? 
And my wife, she just doesn't understand me; what 
should I do? Then there's my back, and the headaches, 
and the allergies and. . . .

Oops. 

Well, here's a url to what works in NN4.73/4.74:

  http://www.sellyourhotrod.com/mysliding1.html

The CODE:

in the <head>

function slide() 
       {
	if (block.xpos < redLight ) {
		block.xpos += 80
		block.left = block.xpos
		setTimeout("slide()",10)
	}

in the <body>

<body onLoad="init()">
<script language="JavaScript">
<!--

ns4 = (document.layers)? true:false
ie5 = (document.all)? true:false

function init() {
   if (ns4) redLight = window.innerWidth  -420 // stop
the car before it exits screen right.
   if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.offsetWidth-420
	if (ns4) block = document.blockDiv
	if (ie5) block = blockDiv.style
  	block.left = -400       // This was the right place
to start the
	                        // car off screen to the left
	block.xpos = parseInt(block.left)
}
//-->
</script>

<A HREF="javascript:slide()">slide</A> -
<A HREF="javascript:moveTo(block,5,100)">restart</A>
 
So, any hints warmly welcomed.

Terry Fowler

<tip type="DHTML Tutorial" author="Terry Fowler">
I'm sure most of you have heard of Steinman's Dynamic
Duo tutorial, so maybe this isn't really a tip, more
of an uncompensated endorsement. I spent a long day
on Saturday going through the tutorial and learned
tons of good stuff. Great place to start getting a
handle on DHTML.
</tip>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed May 23 15:51:05 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed May 23 15:51:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] VBScript Arrays: Can I Determine the Number of Dimensions via Script?
References: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKCECIKKAA.filip@netdesign.se>
Message-ID: <010101c0e3ca$25df6430$2860398a@newcos.com>

Filip,

> Ironically, the solution is JScript. If you add this function to your
code,
> you can call it from your VBScript code as UDim(YourArray).

    Excellent! It hadn't occurred to me to even check my JScript reference.
Thanks a million.

James Aylard




From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Wed May 23 15:58:35 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Wed May 23 15:58:35 2001
Subject: UPDATE: RE: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB
Message-ID: <88256A55.00732B18.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


Well, I figured out how to decode th BLOB.  Every 2 characters was a hex number.
I converted that to decimal, which yields the ASCII code for a character. So,
the decoding ended up being better than I feared.

However, this led me to a different dilemma.

The query is only returning 38 hex characters (19 string characters) on that
field, even though the field in the database has more than 38 characters in it.
(It seems to be consistent across the BLOB fields)

Could there be some quirk in the informix drivers in Cold Fusion?  Or could
there be something I'm overlooking?

Thanks again!

Scott





From joshua at alphashop.net  Wed May 23 16:12:40 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Wed May 23 16:12:40 2001
Subject: UPDATE: RE: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB
References: <88256A55.00732B18.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>
Message-ID: <029501c0e3cd$7633a1f0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

: The query is only returning 38 hex characters (19 string characters) on
that
: field, even though the field in the database has more than 38 characters
in it.
: (It seems to be consistent across the BLOB fields)
:
: Could there be some quirk in the informix drivers in Cold Fusion?  Or
could
: there be something I'm overlooking?


Do the 19 characters reflect the original string in any manner?  If not,
then the 36 hex values might be a reference to a location within the
database heap, if it has one.  But this is just a guess.

-joshua




From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Wed May 23 16:12:55 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Wed May 23 16:12:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
References: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7> <3B0B0093.1406.3DCDB2D6@localhost>
Message-ID: <00f001c0e3cd$b47bffc0$6400a8c0@kjs>

> > How about the simplest? You have N photos, load them all into a
> > directory and then Photo1 has links to photo2 <next> and
> > photoN<previous>, 2 has 3<next> and 1<previous etc until you get to
> > photoN which has photo1<next> and photoN-1<previous>

Thanks for all the info people, this does sound like a good idea, one which
did occur to me in the bath (as most good ideas do) after I had posted my
question. I had invisaged having a page with background and nav bar and
working out the code so that just the picture changes without re-loading the
whole page.

> just have your logic in your loop to start over at 1 once you get to
> the end (for incrementing/decrementing)...

The reason I was considering a database was because I could have fields for
the dimensions, alt tags, brief description etc. I know it does seem like a
long way round but I haven't done any database work for ages and so I
thought it would be good experience, but I also wanted to know if I was
making things unnecessarily hard for myself and, therefore, what
alternatives are available.

> what server-side languages you got available?

ASP and JavaScript.

Thanks again everyone.

Kev
kjs at ratking.co.uk




From paola at limitless.co.uk  Wed May 23 16:15:15 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Wed May 23 16:15:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
References: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <3B0C294B.3D6BDC21@limitless.co.uk>

Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM wrote:
> So, the contractor developed this site in a stoopid way, *using a different
> frameset for **every** page* !!

Why's that stupid?  It's the only way to make sure a web page 
gets its own URL.  A bad (and lazy) implementation of frames
would be where the URL is the same for every page in a site.

I used exactly this approach on the OED Online tour, which has
just 31 tour steps but is made up of about 230 web pages
http://www.oed.com/public/tour/ 


Paola, who had nothing to do with the left-hand nav style...



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Wed May 23 16:15:55 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Wed May 23 16:15:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B20@arnold.bedrock.com>

Most likely, it is due to the fact that no router on the internet will route
the address...

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html

<tip type="Usability Testing" author="Rory Plaire">
Are you trying to see route trace times from around the world? The following
resource can be helpful when designing a website and determining size of
pages or hosting options. The site is http://www.geektools.com/ . Among the
tools is a broadband-connection-equipped hotel listing, but more prevalent
to the topic is the traceroute tools on servers around the world. These have
an HTTP interface, so access them with your favorite web browser. Not only
can you test the route times, but connectivity and the NAT (outside address)
of your firewall/router, in case DNS is not working too well...
</tip>

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Groen [mailto:markgroen at telus.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:51 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] bust out of the frames


Your URL doesn't work for me either, no matter what combination I apply
after your address: http://172.20.92.14


<snip>

Here's the URL so you can see how the menu system works:
http://172.20.92.14/be2/beweb2b.nsf/home.html?OpenPage

TIA!!!

-Ron Senykoff
</snip>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Wed May 23 16:21:15 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Wed May 23 16:21:15 2001
Subject: UPDATE: RE: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB
Message-ID: <88256A55.0075397B.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


Joshua Olson wrote:

> Do the 19 characters reflect the original string in any manner?  If not,
> then the 36 hex values might be a reference to a location within the
> database heap, if it has one.  But this is just a guess.

When I convert the 38 Hex characters into the 19 string characters, they do
match  what the output should be (well, the first 19 characters anyway).

We ran a test to see if we were limited in how many characters we could pull
from an Informix text field with more than 255 characters.  We were able to pull
all of the data in such a field.

Our theory is that something in the drivers for Cold Fusion limits the amount of
data you can pull from a BYTE field in order to prevent an overflow (since the
BYTE field isn't limited in length).  While that makes sense, it doesn't make
sense to only be 38 Hex characters.

The Informix guru here (I can barely spell Informix) is going to work on a
procedure that will run the conversion process automatically and return a text
field. Hopefully, that should take care of it.

Scott





"Joshua OIson" <joshua at alphashop.net> on 05/23/2001 02:15:14 PM

Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:    (bcc: Scott Brady/TMS)

Subject:  Re: UPDATE: RE: [thelist] Attack of the BLOB


: The query is only returning 38 hex characters (19 string characters) on
that
: field, even though the field in the database has more than 38 characters
in it.
: (It seems to be consistent across the BLOB fields)
:
: Could there be some quirk in the informix drivers in Cold Fusion?  Or
could
: there be something I'm overlooking?


Do the 19 characters reflect the original string in any manner?  If not,
then the 36 hex values might be a reference to a location within the
database heap, if it has one.  But this is just a guess.

-joshua


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !









From sgd at ti3.com  Wed May 23 17:18:50 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed May 23 17:18:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Wednesday Wisdom
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DAF@gate.ti3.com>

I reluctantly drug my workstation from NT4sp6 to Win2K Server yesterday
(reinstall, not upgrade), and while I'm still installing shiznit here and
there to patch productivity holes (like resetting keyboard shortcuts and
winamp), the one thing that irked me silly was with the installation of IIS5
--

<tip type="IIS5" title="Changing the default install directory">
The only way to change the default during install (C:\InetPub\wwwroot\) is
to use an unattended install and an answer file. Ugh.

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q259/6/71.ASP
</tip>

sgd
--
work: http://ti3.com/
non: http://thinksafely.org/ 



From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Wed May 23 17:22:46 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Wed May 23 17:22:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
Message-ID: <85256A55.007AD4E8.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


First, I apologize that nobody can access the link I gave out.  I am currently
talking to the admin about making it publicly accessible...
Second,
<snip>
> So, the contractor developed this site in a stoopid way, *using a different
> frameset for **every** page* !!

Why's that stupid?  It's the only way to make sure a web page
gets its own URL.  A bad (and lazy) implementation of frames
would be where the URL is the same for every page in a site.
</snip>

It's stupid because you don't need to load frames again that have already been
downloaded.  Using different framesets for every page only serves to increase
download time.  As far as creating a different URL with frames, I suggest this
article as a read:
http://www.evolt.org/article/Avoiding_URL_problems_with_your_framed_web_site/17/9769/index.html

-Ron S.







Paola Kathuria <paola at limitless.co.uk> on 05/23/2001 05:19:07 PM

Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:    (bcc: Ron Senykoff/BEA)

Subject:  Re: [thelist] bust out of the frames



Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM wrote:
> So, the contractor developed this site in a stoopid way, *using a different
> frameset for **every** page* !!

Why's that stupid?  It's the only way to make sure a web page
gets its own URL.  A bad (and lazy) implementation of frames
would be where the URL is the same for every page in a site.

I used exactly this approach on the OED Online tour, which has
just 31 tour steps but is made up of about 230 web pages
http://www.oed.com/public/tour/


Paola, who had nothing to do with the left-hand nav style...

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !









From sales at iibiz.com  Wed May 23 17:33:21 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (sales at iibiz.com)
Date: Wed May 23 17:33:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DA2@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <026401c0e3d9$1fe6c640$4aa5b3c7@iibiz>

> > (Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)
> 
> <duck>
> 

Right.  Like you guys would read it if there was one - LOL!

Sandy





From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Wed May 23 18:13:06 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Wed May 23 18:13:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mod_gzip?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010524180721.024b8470@redhotsweeps.com>

Has anyone out there ever used the apache mod_gzip?  From what I 
understand, it is supposed to speed up http requests by compressing the 
pages.

I have only glimpsed at the mod_gzip site, but I wanted other people's 
experiences before I continue.

http://www.remotecommunications.com/apache/mod_gzip/ - For more information

Chris




From cvos at netpaths.net  Wed May 23 18:54:26 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Wed May 23 18:54:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] online calendar in php
Message-ID: <3B0C4DB2.66120F3@netpaths.net>

what is the best script to use for an online calendar?  I found one in cgi
http://mkruse.netexpress.net/scripts/calendar/
but I'm not familiar with perl.  Any good leads for one in php?

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From web at master.gen.in.us  Wed May 23 19:17:26 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Wed May 23 19:17:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEFKCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
References: <200105232007.f4NK7N025078@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B0C1C1B.12218.52EE749@localhost>

On 23 May 2001, at 16:15, Chris Johnston posted a message which said:

> <meta http-equiv="expires" content="-1">

That's not a legal value for content. If you want the page to 
not be cached, you should use a valid, properly-formatted 
date/time which has already passed.

> <meta http-equiv= "pragma" content="no-cache">

That's not a legal use of pragma. Pragma is for headers sent
*to* the server *by* the client, not from the server to the client.

deke

------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From Abbey at abbeyink.com  Wed May 23 19:21:21 2001
From: Abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey)
Date: Wed May 23 19:21:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] online calendar in php
In-Reply-To: <3B0C4DB2.66120F3@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010523192027.00a29dd0@mail.abbeyink.com>

You might want to check
http://evilwalrus.com/
http://zend.com/
http://hotscripts.com/
http://devshed.com/

Just a couple of my favorite php code links.

<tamara />




From cdjohnston at hockeyhub.net  Wed May 23 20:25:26 2001
From: cdjohnston at hockeyhub.net (Chris Darrell Johnston)
Date: Wed May 23 20:25:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Apache Problem - .shtml below root
Message-ID: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Hello,

I am having a small problem configuring Apache. (Yes, I am a newbie) I
have
SSI running and I have mapped it to work with straight .htm files as well
.shtm files. The problem I am having is that it only works in the root
directory. If I create a .htm document in a folder below the root
directory
and try to use a SSI, it don't work. I am trying to place the main
navigation bit of code in a document at the root and then have all other
documents (in the root or below) access and use that nav document.

OS: Windows 2000 Pro
Apache: 1.3.6

I also have another dumb question. Under windows you can not create a file
that is just an extension (i.e. .htaccess) I am assuming that you can give
the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

Thanks in advanced,

Christopher Darrell Johnston




From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Wed May 23 22:31:42 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Wed May 23 22:31:42 2001
Subject: Windows-Installation (was Re: [thelist] Playing with MIME type (was: Downloading .jpg & .pdf files))
References: <3B07DBCC.15608.5ED5DA1@localhost> <3B095F88.30CFF11F@avencom.com> <3B097AC9.3044AAFF@gmx.net> <3B099583.345E2313@avencom.com> <3B099988.E8F133EA@gmx.net> <3B099B5E.9B7AB221@avencom.com> <3B0AC0C7.BD2BAF7E@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <002301c0e402$19f7ed80$6e03150a@bruceh>

Jakob D?lling wrote:

> BTW: <TIP typ="WebTV name="Jakob Doelling">WebTV is IE5 as WebTV.net is
> a daughter company of Mc$oft</tip>- I did looked it up in my personal
> server logs. Opera seems also to make use of the IE engine.
>

No, Opera uses it's own display engine. It does however, allow the user to
specify whether to identify itself as one of several flavors of MSIE and
Netscape, or sending it's (Opera's) own user_agent string. If you have cases
of MSIE appearing in your logs when, in fact, the browser was known to be
Opera, then that explains that.

As an aside - I keep meaning to see if there is a hack that would let me
write my own user_agent strings for Opera. That would be kind of fun.

HTH,

Bruce




From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Wed May 23 22:43:22 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Wed May 23 22:43:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
References: <20010523205103.27205.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c0e403$c1601bf0$6e03150a@bruceh>

Google is great for this sort of thing:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:evolt%2Eorg+innerwidth

Gives this result:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20001113/145309.html

Which points you at this very fine evolt article:
Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I  (aardvark)
http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_I/17/2295/in
dex.html

This article covers the subject in some depth - happy reading.

-Bruce

Quackamoe wrote: (nice nick, btw :)

> Trying out some DHTML using Dan Steinman's Dynamic Duo
> tutorial (http://www.dansteinman.com/dynduo/).
<snip>
> I can get it for NN4x by using
>
>    if (ns4) redLight = window.innerWidth
>    // heh heh, redLight to stop the car; get it??
>
> but for IE5,
>
>    if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.offsetWidth
>    if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.scrollWidth
>
> don't work; window.innerWidth locks IE5 up, cuz
> it's NN only. Haven't looked at it in IE4,IE5.5, N6
> or Moz0.9 yet. I can do the last two, but only have
> IE5 installed.
>
<snip>




From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Wed May 23 22:48:53 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Wed May 23 22:48:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <200105232007.f4NK7N025078@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <006901c0e404$855116e0$6e03150a@bruceh>

 From the horses mouth:
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/global.html#h-7.4.4

Of course, this is merely a recommendation. Actual implementation by browser
& server makers may (and likely does) vary.

-Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Cheng" <mark.cheng at ranger.com.au>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 3:11 PM
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?


> Hello all,
>
> Being a newbie to setting up sites, can anyone provide a list of META
> tags which it is considered good practice to have eg caching, robots etc?
>
> thanks
>
> MarkC
>
>
> This email may be confidential and contain commercially sensitive
information.  Only the intended recipient may access or use it.  If you are
not the intended recipient please delete this email and notify us promptly.
> We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or
similar in this email or any attachment.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From travelshot at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 22:52:17 2001
From: travelshot at yahoo.com (A R)
Date: Wed May 23 22:52:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Stupid ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <20010524035245.72635.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an increadilbly simple (hopefully) question.

I have a sample database (1 table 1 entry) I try to
query like this:

<% Option Explicit %>
<html>
<head><title>Untitled</title></head>
<body>

<%
Dim dcnDB 'As ADODB.Connection

Set dcnDB = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
dcnDB.ConnectionString = "DSN=Database" 
dcnDB.Open
Response.Write (dcnDB.Execute("SELECT * FROM
Products"))
%>

</body>
</html>

Everything seems to work fine, but it won't display
the results, it gives me this:

Response object error 'ASP 0185 : 8002000e' 

Missing Default Property 

/development/connection.asp, line 0 

A default property was not found for the object. 



I am pretty new to this, but I never had to declare
the default property for the response object, nor do I
know what it is.

Help please?

Alex

<Tip coming>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Thu May 24 02:07:05 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Thu May 24 02:07:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Stupid ASP Question
In-Reply-To: <20010524035245.72635.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010524000202.02ab28a8@baratta.com>

Try this....

<% Option Explicit %>
<% Dim dcnDB 'As ADODB.Connection
Set dcnDB = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
dcnDB.ConnectionString = "DSN=Database"
dcnDB.Open
Set dcnRS = dcnDB.Execute("SELECT * FROM Products")
if not (dcnRS.BOF AND dcnRS.EOF) then
    while not (dcnRS.EOF)
       for each fld in dcnRS.Fields
          Response.Write "<b>" & fld.name & "</b>: " & fld.value & "<br>" & 
vbCRLF
       next
       dcnRS.MoveNext
    wend
else
    Response.Write "No Data!"
end if
%>
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu May 24 02:48:45 2001
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu May 24 02:48:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] online calendar in php
In-Reply-To: <3B0C4DB2.66120F3@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJACELGEOAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

Any good leads for one in php?

Try this:

http://webcalendar.sourceforge.net/demo/

hth



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu May 24 04:57:56 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu May 24 04:57:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
Message-ID: <LAW2-F20b6KZmcK8r6b00016435@hotmail.com>



>I can get it for NN4x by using
>
>    if (ns4) redLight = window.innerWidth
>    // heh heh, redLight to stop the car; get it??
>
>but for IE5,
>
>    if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.offsetWidth
>    if (ie5) redLight =  document.body.scrollWidth
>
>don't work; window.innerWidth locks IE5 up, cuz

IE needs document.body.clientWidth . Your current browser detect is 
incorrect, it leaves out Netscape 6 and the minor browsers. Besides, 
detecting the browser is not necessary here:

>function init() {

if (self.innerWidth) redLight = self.innerWidth
else if (document.body) redLight = document.body.clientWidth


>	if (ns4) block = document.blockDiv
>	if (ie5) block = blockDiv.style
>   	block.left = -400       // This was the right place
>to start the
>	                        // car off screen to the left
>	block.xpos = parseInt(block.left)
>}
>//-->
></script>

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From brian.j.boerner at lmco.com  Thu May 24 06:46:18 2001
From: brian.j.boerner at lmco.com (Boerner, Brian J)
Date: Thu May 24 06:46:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW - FTP permissions settings
Message-ID: <91A6D3929D6BD4119B8C0008C7E66564041CDEFB@emss04m03.ems.lmco.com>

Dreamweaver default permissions get set to 664 on Unix and we are forever
chmod-ing to 775

WHat's the deal here? - I use WS-FTP without a care but a colleague swears
by DW-FTP/synchronization and though I like it I've stuck with WS-FTP only
because developers here need to collaborate without using DWs
check-in/check-out (or DW at all for that matter)

anyone know the scoop or where to change the default ftp settings? - or
anyone have a direct line on which DW xml file to change so DW behaves the
way we'd like?

thanks evolters! and Happy Belated Birthday



From web at master.gen.in.us  Thu May 24 07:50:39 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Thu May 24 07:50:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Apache Problem - .shtml below root
In-Reply-To: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <3B0CCCA1.4102.7E08FA2@localhost>

On 23 May 2001, at 21:25, Chris Darrell Johnston posted a message which said:

> I also have another dumb question. Under windows you can not create a file
> that is just an extension (i.e. .htaccess) I am assuming that you can give
> the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
> sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

Actually, you *can* create a file named ".htaccess" in Windows.

But if you don't want to use .htaccess, you can edit your httpd.conf
file so that you use something.htaccess by changing
    AccessFileName .htaccess
to
    AccessFileName something.htaccess
or you can change it to 
   AccessFileName foo.bar
or almost any other fixed file name. 

I don't think wildcards are acceptable, because you don't want
the httpd trying to decide which access file it should pay 
attention to.

deke










------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From blastronaut at excite.com  Thu May 24 07:53:39 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Thu May 24 07:53:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
Message-ID: <5517669.990708840660.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com>

list rox -
I am a gui developer and I am entering the world of Windows applications.
Previously I have developed ASP and web GUIs using Illustrator, PS and
DHTML. 

Now that I am transitioning to Windows, I am wondering if there are any
standard prototyping tools for this platform. Not for coding, but
prototyping, ostensibly something that a small organisation could use for
collaboration. 

So far I have come up with Supercard, but nothing Win specific.

HELP

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
http://www.blastronaut.com
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From web at master.gen.in.us  Thu May 24 07:55:34 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Thu May 24 07:55:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Shell Script Basics?
In-Reply-To: <026401c0e3d9$1fe6c640$4aa5b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <3B0CCDC8.20484.7E51175@localhost>

On 23 May 2001, at 17:38, sales at iibiz.com posted a message which said:

> > > (Well, almost. They ain't got no books on wimmen....)
> > <duck>
> Right.  Like you guys would read it if there was one - LOL!

Sandy, there are ENTIRE BOOKSTORES selling books on 
wimmen, and they are largely patronized by men....

deke

<tip type="porn sites">
Some of the best programming on the web is on porn 
sites, because it makes a *real* difference in profitability
when users decide to go elsewhere.

Spend a lot of time studying porn sites, for the sake of
your professional development. Your wife will appreciate
it.
</tip>



------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From alligotar at gmx.net  Thu May 24 08:04:49 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Thu May 24 08:04:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Apache Problem - .shtml below root
References: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <3B0D0714.6D46A405@gmx.net>

Morn: 
> 
> Under windows you can not create a file that is just an extension
> (i.e. .htaccess) 

Strange ruling, anyway. In Unix-world, the 
I am assuming that you can give
> the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
> sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

<Tip type="Apache on Win32" author="Jakob Doelling>
In the main conf file of Apache, i. e. httpd.conf you can alter the name
of access file iun the main server config section to name.htacess. In
order to modify more easyly, link the extention ".htaccess" to notepad.
The other way is if presentation server is on Unix, upload your access
file(s) and rename it on the remote site to .htaccess. 
</tip>
hth,
Jakob D?lling
-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From chris at completeimaging.com  Thu May 24 08:52:59 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu May 24 08:52:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEFOCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Hello,

I have a simple little question that is a little off topic. One of the
websites that I work on is planning on changing from MS Access to MS-SQL
Server 2000 as it's database. My question is this, what is the front-end
used for MS-SQL? Access is an integrated environment in that the database
and the graphical user interface are all in the same program, is MS-SQL the
same way or is there a graphical front that gets installed on client
machines that links in with the main server? The SysAdmin guy insists that
the only front-end for MS-SQL is Access, is this correct. It just seems to
me to be a rather low end, cheap front end for such a high quality database
system.

Anyway, just wondering.

Here is my tip to validate my post.
<top type="ColdFusion">
In ColdFusion, instead of hard coding the name of the database being used by
an application in every query that you use, store it in an application
variable using the Application.cfm file. There are two advantages to
creating an application this way;

1. If you ever change the name of the database you only have to change it
once for the entire website.

2. If, for some reason, someone gets a hold of the original code of any
pages within the site, they won't see the name of the database listed in the
code and the hacker will have to work even harder to get at your data.
</tip>

Chris

--------------
www.edigitaldesign.com
Taking Your Business to the Web

[Web Design] [ColdFusion] [Database Applications] [Hosting]





From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 09:04:39 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Thu May 24 09:04:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEFOCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPAEDMCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but generally .asp pages from the
front-end of SQL backed Apps... I've personally ne'er heard of someone using
Access as a front-end for SQL...

Thanks,
Ron White

Oh and BTW, your post is VERY WebDev related so definitely not OFF topic...





From Kevin.Greene at eei.ericsson.se  Thu May 24 09:07:24 2001
From: Kevin.Greene at eei.ericsson.se (Kevin Greene (LMI))
Date: Thu May 24 09:07:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <E15E681D977DD4118ECE00508B6F72EA041A12E1@eiedbnt511.eei.ericsson.se>

I think the answer to your question is an application that comes with SQL Server called Enterprise Manager.  From that you can administer your databases.

Kev



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Thu May 24 09:07:29 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Thu May 24 09:07:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA6E@BOOTROS>

You can use Access as a front-end for SQL Server, if you like. You can also
use web pages or a custom application written in whatever you like (although
Visual Basic or Visual C++ would seem to be sensible choices)

Cheers
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Johnston [mailto:chris at completeimaging.com]
Sent: 24 May 2001 14:54
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?


Hello,

I have a simple little question that is a little off topic. One of the
websites that I work on is planning on changing from MS Access to MS-SQL
Server 2000 as it's database. My question is this, what is the front-end
used for MS-SQL? Access is an integrated environment in that the database
and the graphical user interface are all in the same program, is MS-SQL the
same way or is there a graphical front that gets installed on client
machines that links in with the main server? The SysAdmin guy insists that
the only front-end for MS-SQL is Access, is this correct. It just seems to
me to be a rather low end, cheap front end for such a high quality database
system.


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From Matt at grndwtr.com  Thu May 24 09:12:39 2001
From: Matt at grndwtr.com (Matthias Ritzkowski)
Date: Thu May 24 09:12:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B0128007AE89@mail1>

MS-Access can be used as a Front end for users of any ODBC compliant
Database.
I once had to troubleshoot such a beast with Sybase as a backend.
It was not fun.

Matthias

>
<snip>
>Server 2000 as it's database. My question is this, what is the 
>front-end
>used for MS-SQL? Access is an integrated environment in that 
>the database
>and the graphical user interface are all in the same program, 
>is MS-SQL the
>same way or is there a graphical front that gets installed on client
>machines that links in with the main server? The SysAdmin guy 
>insists that
>the only front-end for MS-SQL is Access, is this correct. It 
>just seems to
>me to be a rather low end, cheap front end for such a high 
>quality database
>system.

</snip>



From mike.king at redroom.co.uk  Thu May 24 09:14:54 2001
From: mike.king at redroom.co.uk (Mike King)
Date: Thu May 24 09:14:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <E15E681D977DD4118ECE00508B6F72EA041A12E1@eiedbnt511.eei.er
 icsson.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524151318.00ab6510@pop.redroom.co.uk>

It's a snap-in for the MMC, nice to use... it also means that you can 
remotely administer the SQL server (and stored procs, triggers etc...)

Cheers
mk

At 16:09 24/05/01 +0200, you wrote:
>I think the answer to your question is an application that comes with SQL 
>Server called Enterprise Manager.  From that you can administer your 
>databases.`




From cache at dowebs.com  Thu May 24 09:17:34 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Thu May 24 09:17:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
References: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com> <3B0C294B.3D6BDC21@limitless.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B0D189B.BF7B2D3F@dowebs.com>

Paola Kathuria wrote:

> Why's that stupid?  It's the only way to make sure a web page
> gets its own URL.  A bad (and lazy) implementation of frames
> would be where the URL is the same for every page in a site.

Well, not the *only* way....
Any framed site can have correct bookmarks if you use a dynamic
frameset.

on the nav page use links like: 
<a href=frameset.cgi?pageName.html target=_top>

frameset.cgi looks like so

#!/usr/bin/perl

if($ENV{'QUERY_STRING'}){
$url = $ENV{'QUERY_STRING'};
}else{$url="main.html";
}
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print qq~<frameset  cols="25%,*">
<frame name="nav" src="nav.html">
<frame name="body" src="$url">
</frameset>~;

The nav page will reload out of the cache. The frameset will reload from
the server always loading the correct page in the body frame. Bookmarks
will always load the correct pages.

>http://www.oed.com/public/tour/ 

I can't see why you used frames on that site. Since the nav page changes
to correspond with the main page why shouldn't the navigation just be
part of the page?

keith



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 09:18:44 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Thu May 24 09:18:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <E15E681D977DD4118ECE00508B6F72EA041A12E1@eiedbnt511.eei.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEDOCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

If that's what he was referring to, then yes, +1. The question was so vague
I had no idea what exactly he wanted...

Thanks,
Ron White

<snip>
I think the answer to your question is an application that comes with SQL
Server called Enterprise Manager.  From that you can administer your
databases.
</snip>





From r937 at interlog.com  Thu May 24 09:19:50 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu May 24 09:19:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <01c0e45c$9edbc120$a250149a@rudy>

> My question is this, what is the front-end used for MS-SQL?

hi chris

there are two -- query manager or enterprise manager

query manager basically lets you run queries

enterprise manager is the whole ball o' wax -- table definitions, user
permissions, and so on

>Here is my tip to validate my post.


thanks

just a quick note to clarify tips -- when in doubt about whether a post is
on topic, toss in a tip like chris has done

you do not need a tip if you are asking or answering a web development
question

some would argue that databases are no longer off topic...

=o)


rudy




From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Thu May 24 09:27:10 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Thu May 24 09:27:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90024508FD@severin.cursci.co.uk>

Hi everybody,

I'm working on a project which uses XSLT to transform the source XML from an
Oracle databse to HTML for display on the web.

I've got my XSL sheet all up and running nicely without any major hitches,
but theres on pretty important thing that I just can't seem to work out how
to do.

A couple of parts of my XML file hold large chunks of text. When I view the
XML file, I can see that the text (in CDATA[]) is nicely formatted with
carriage returns. Obviously though, XSL strips out all extraneous
whitespace, so I just end up with these *huge* blocks of text with no
linebreaks.

Now, I know how to get XSL to preserve whitespace, but thats no good - the
text comes through still formatted, but obviously newline characters mean
nothing to HTML - what I need to do is convert the newlines to <br>s, or
<p>s, or whatever.

So, how can I do this with XSL? Convert newlines to <br> tags for the output
tree? This is driving me nuts!

Thanks,

Kerin



From chris at completeimaging.com  Thu May 24 09:35:10 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu May 24 09:35:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPMEDOCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGACDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Apparently my question was a little vague. I must apologize for this.

Hopefully I can clear things up a little. What I meant by front-end is the
graphical user interface that is used by people who must use the database,
not the people developing the database. By this I mean, the everyday schmoes
who's job it is to enter, use, and analyze the data that is placed in the
database. The sales associates who enter orders or you need to see how many
widgets are in stock, etc...

Hope this helps to clarify things a little.

Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> If that's what he was referring to, then yes, +1. The question
> was so vague
> I had no idea what exactly he wanted...
>




From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 09:39:20 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Thu May 24 09:39:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGACDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPEEEECHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

Ok, in that case make a web-based front-end using .asp pages and forms.

Thanks,
Ron White

<snip>
By this I mean, the everyday schmoes who's job it is to enter, use, and
analyze the data that is placed in the database. The sales associates who
enter orders or you need to see how many widgets are in stock, etc...
</snip>





From cache at dowebs.com  Thu May 24 09:41:15 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Thu May 24 09:41:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <200105232007.f4NK7N025078@leo.evolt.org> <3B0C1C1B.12218.52EE749@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0D1E29.A401142B@dowebs.com>

deke wrote:

> > <meta http-equiv= "pragma" content="no-cache">
> 
> That's not a legal use of pragma. Pragma is for headers sent
> *to* the server *by* the client, not from the server to the client.

What browsers does the pragma meta tag NOT work in? 

And if "Pragma is for headers sent *to* the server *by* the client, not
from the server to the client" is true, then why does sending
print "Pragma: no-cache\n"; 
from a server keep the page out of the cache?

keith



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Thu May 24 09:42:40 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Thu May 24 09:42:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FA71@BOOTROS>

OK, you mean the actual client software you install on Joe Q. User's
desktop, right?

My previous post still applies (I think):
You can use Access as a front-end for SQL Server, if you like. You can also
use web pages or a custom application written in whatever you like (although
Visual Basic or Visual C++ would seem to be sensible choices)

Cheers
Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Johnston [mailto:chris at completeimaging.com]
Sent: 24 May 2001 15:36
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?


Apparently my question was a little vague. I must apologize for this.

Hopefully I can clear things up a little. What I meant by front-end is the
graphical user interface that is used by people who must use the database,
not the people developing the database. By this I mean, the everyday schmoes
who's job it is to enter, use, and analyze the data that is placed in the
database. The sales associates who enter orders or you need to see how many
widgets are in stock, etc...

Hope this helps to clarify things a little.

Chris


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From john_meyer at geocities.com  Thu May 24 09:48:40 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Thu May 24 09:48:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT - Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <01c0e45c$9edbc120$a250149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524084746.00a5a3f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

You can also use Access as a front end as well.

At 10:20 AM 5/24/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > My question is this, what is the front-end used for MS-SQL?
>
>hi chris
>
>there are two -- query manager or enterprise manager
>
>query manager basically lets you run queries
>
>enterprise manager is the whole ball o' wax -- table definitions, user
>permissions, and so on
>
> >Here is my tip to validate my post.
>
>
>thanks




From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Thu May 24 09:52:35 2001
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Thu May 24 09:52:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
References: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPEEEECHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B0D22B1.EEE1587C@acu.ac.uk>

Ron White wrote:
> 
> Ok, in that case make a web-based front-end using .asp pages and forms.

This is great for cross-platformness, but a word of warning - watch your
licences. IIRR you need a license for each user who will be connecting,
and if you intend to stick this on a public website (open to an
unlimited number of people) you need a special license.

Katherine

PS - This is why we use Oracle for our in house stuff, (with a VB front
end - we have one dedicated VB programmer) and MySQL for our websites.



From paola at limitless.co.uk  Thu May 24 10:07:50 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Thu May 24 10:07:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
References: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com> <3B0C294B.3D6BDC21@limitless.co.uk> <3B0D189B.BF7B2D3F@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <3B0D24B3.3A46E9B@limitless.co.uk>

Keith Davis wrote:
> Well, not the *only* way....
> Any framed site can have correct bookmarks if you use a dynamic
> frameset.

Thanks for that tip.

> >http://www.oed.com/public/tour/
> 
> I can't see why you used frames on that site. Since the nav page changes
> to correspond with the main page why shouldn't the navigation just be
> part of the page?

Which navigation are you referring to?  The right-hand tour index
is the same 9K page each time and so gets cached.  Without frames,
it'd mean an additional 9K on every tour page.

Also, enlarging screenshots only updates the main frame.  Since the
screenshot "thumbnails" are really full-sized ones shrunk in HTML
these pages load very quickly, which wouldn't be the case if the
whole page was done using tables in order to achieve the same page
layout.

Noframes tags on all pages originally included a page with a link
to a downloadable print version of the tour but the OUP decided just
before launch to postpone this.  Perhaps if I'd known there
wouldn't be a non-frames version available at the beginning, I'd
have made a different implementation decision.


Paola



From sgd at ti3.com  Thu May 24 10:09:00 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu May 24 10:09:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DC4@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> Not entirely sure what you're asking, but generally .asp 
> pages from the
> front-end of SQL backed Apps... I've personally ne'er heard 
> of someone using
> Access as a front-end for SQL...

you *can* use Access to front-end SQL Server, by linking the tables in
Access. This gives you the Access tools in front of the db. I'd like some
specifics on how the the SQL Server is gonna be interacted with. The SQL
Server Enterprise Manager gives you everything you need to manage/admin the
server, and included with that is the Query Analyzer, which lets you run
ad-hoc queries. As far as a client application goes, you can use Access, and
it is done in the wild because Access provides the nice interface (forms).
Other than that, a client interface that runs on the web server would be ASP
pages talking directly to the SQL Server db.

Make sense?

sgd



From razorwise at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 10:23:40 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Thu May 24 10:23:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] I need some MySql config help
Message-ID: <20010524152408.16726.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Good day all,

I finally got MySql installed on my pc...thanks!  But I don't know what I'm supposed to use as my
user name/password on my local box.  I'm wanting to try to test things out locally as I learn, as
some of you suggested.  I'm a total PHP/MySql newbie and I've got myPHPAdmin finally on here
too(many thanks for that suggestion as well).  My box at work is NT4.  My box at home is Win98 and
I'm wanting to set it up in both places.  At home, it seemed to work fine with the defaults, but
it was late last night and I was kinda out of it.  Now it's a new day and I'm at the office and
still feeling kinda out of it.  *L*

So I'd appreciate any and all direction.  :) 


Many thanks,

Sean





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From chris at completeimaging.com  Thu May 24 10:43:25 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu May 24 10:43:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D22B1.EEE1587C@acu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Can you elaborate a little bit more on the specifics of the Licensing for
MS-SQL. We are planning on using it on the web as well as in the office. How
much does web licensing usually cost? Do you know of any links that I can
visit that explains the licensing for MS-SQL? I was always under the
impression that you bought the software and that was it, no licensing
required beyond that. I was obviously mistaken.

Apparently there is more to this software then what I initially realized.

Chris

> -----Original Message-----
>
> This is great for cross-platformness, but a word of warning - watch your
> licences. IIRR you need a license for each user who will be connecting,
> and if you intend to stick this on a public website (open to an
> unlimited number of people) you need a special license.
>
> Katherine




From sgd at ti3.com  Thu May 24 10:48:05 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu May 24 10:48:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist]Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DC8@gate.ti3.com>

There's a great resource on this (and some on this list would never go
there), but try http://www.microsoft.com/sql/ --There's all the info you
need to evaluate, hell, there are even tools to help you upsize from
Access....

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Johnston [mailto:chris at completeimaging.com]
> 
> Can you elaborate a little bit more on the specifics of the 
> Licensing for
> MS-SQL. We are planning on using it on the web as well as in 
> the office. How
> much does web licensing usually cost? Do you know of any 
> links that I can
> visit that explains the licensing for MS-SQL? I was always under the



From chris at completeimaging.com  Thu May 24 10:50:15 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu May 24 10:50:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D22B1.EEE1587C@acu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Okay, since this licensing issue has been raised in relation to using MS-SQL
on the web, I was wondering what peoples opinions where of MS-SQL vs. MySQL
on a windows platform. Specifically,

1. Limitations on connections
2. Limitations on table size
3. Can both hook to ColdFusion
4. Overall speed
5. Ease of use both in creating and managing tables as well as on the
front-end for Joe Schmoe average user
6. Speed on the web
7. Can MySQL use Access as it data entry front-end
8. Are there any licensing issues with using MySQL on a windows platform
9. Anything else you would like to share

We are looking for one single database solution that will allow us to
connect it to a website (ColdFusion) as well as to be used in the office for
entering data. Unfortunately, due to the complexity of the data, we can not
go with a browser based interface for the office and are therefore limited
to an Access style front-end for data entry.

Chris

>
> PS - This is why we use Oracle for our in house stuff, (with a VB front
> end - we have one dedicated VB programmer) and MySQL for our websites.
>




From cwilliams at computermodules.com  Thu May 24 11:17:15 2001
From: cwilliams at computermodules.com (Chris Williams)
Date: Thu May 24 11:17:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Apache Problem - .shtml below root
In-Reply-To: <0015a4925011851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <FGEKIJDCADEFEBGHPLJKEEANCBAA.cwilliams@computermodules.com>

Did you try the XBitHack?  It is a script which will parse all files and
make them appear as .htm or .html.

http://www.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_include.html

If we had apache, I would be using it now.




-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Darrell
Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 6:26 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] [fwd] Apache Problem - .shtml below root


---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


Hello,

I am having a small problem configuring Apache. (Yes, I am a newbie) I
have
SSI running and I have mapped it to work with straight .htm files as well
.shtm files. The problem I am having is that it only works in the root
directory. If I create a .htm document in a folder below the root
directory
and try to use a SSI, it don't work. I am trying to place the main
navigation bit of code in a document at the root and then have all other
documents (in the root or below) access and use that nav document.

OS: Windows 2000 Pro
Apache: 1.3.6

I also have another dumb question. Under windows you can not create a file
that is just an extension (i.e. .htaccess) I am assuming that you can give
the file whatever name you want as long is ends in .htaccess? (Just making
sure, don't kick me off the list for asking the obvious, please)

Thanks in advanced,

Christopher Darrell Johnston


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From framar at interlog.com  Thu May 24 11:29:00 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu May 24 11:29:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] I need some MySql config help
In-Reply-To: <20010524152408.16726.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20010524152408.16726.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05001900b732d9a2ad39@[24.43.66.191]>

>  I finally got MySql installed on my pc...thanks! But I
>  don't know what I'm supposed to use as my user
>  name/password on my local box. I'm wanting to try to
>  test things out locally as I learn, as some of you
>  suggested. I'm a total PHP/MySql newbie and I've got
>  myPHPAdmin finally on here too(many thanks for that
>  suggestion as well)

You can simply use 'root' as your user name, and leave the pass 
blank. As a matter of fact, you can use any user name or password, if 
you add them to your query definition.

-- 

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com



From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Thu May 24 11:48:20 2001
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Thu May 24 11:48:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <3B0D3DD3.83D9316F@acu.ac.uk>

Chris Johnston wrote:
> 
> Okay, since this licensing issue has been raised in relation to using MS-SQL
> on the web, I was wondering what peoples opinions where of MS-SQL vs. MySQL
> on a windows platform. Specifically,

Not asking for much are you ;-) I'm not able to comment on running it on
windows, but I'll try and address the generic stuff, (good source of
reference: http://www.mysql.com)

You don't specify which win platform - this url has info on problems
with 95
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Installing.html#Windows_vs_Unix

> 1. Limitations on connections

http://www.mysql.com/doc/T/o/Too_many_connections.html

"The maximum number of connects MySQL is depending on how good the
thread library is on a given platform. Linux or Solaris should be able
to support 500-1000 simultaneous connections, depending on how much RAM
you have and what your clients are doing."

The default allowed is 100 (that's _simultaneous_ connections, mind) and
what we use on a site which gets about 50000 hits (that's hits not db
connections, I'd guess 15000 of those made a request to the database
engine) per day and I've never had a problem.

> 2. Limitations on table size

http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Introduction.html#Features
"Up to 32 indexes per table are allowed." 
"Handles large databases. We are using MySQL with some databases that
contain 50,000,000 records and we know of users that uses MySQL with
60,000 tables and about 5,000,000,000 rows"

Also 1. and 4. are limited by the spec of your machine, not MySQL

> 3. Can both hook to ColdFusion
Yep - ColdFusion supports ODBC.

> 4. Overall speed
See 1. (ie your machine spec (CPU and disk I/O) will always be the
limiting factor for _any_ database engine).

> 5. Ease of use both in creating and managing tables as well as on the
> front-end for Joe Schmoe average user
If you can do it in Access...... No, seriously, once set up, it's as
easy as you want it to be - I do everything from the console, but then
maybe I'm a masochist :-)

> 6. Speed on the web
Different from 4 how?

> 7. Can MySQL use Access as it data entry front-end
Via ODBC - http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-myodbc.html

> 8. Are there any licensing issues with using MySQL on a windows platform
Not specifically - see here for info
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Licensing_and_Support.html#Licensing_policy

HTH,
Katherine



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Thu May 24 11:58:00 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Thu May 24 11:58:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B22@arnold.bedrock.com>

Hi Michael,

 From the description of the tools used in the past, may I restate your
question in terms that may make your request more clear to me? In most
engineering disciplines, a prototype is an actual working model, with near
full functionality (what in the SW field is known as alpha or beta bits). A
model definition where you only render the representation of its significant
features in order to achieve a more complete conceptualization is called a
mock-up. A mock-up generally possesses little to no functionality of the
final product, but appears like it in a striking way. This aside, and
assuming that you have a mock-up for visualization purposes, you can use
either Microsoft Visio or Microsoft VB (or VBA with Office, for that matter,
it's "cheaper" 8), to do a real-to-life visual model. With VB[A], you can
also get someone (or you, yourself) to put a little code here and there to
extend the visual impact of the features, if so needed (e.g. "What would
happen if this button is pushed?").

Hmmm... the bulk of the beginning of this reply was wordy and sufficiently
off-topic to demand to be propitiated with a tip? Sure enough...

<tip type="Designing with Models" author="Rory Plaire>
In many shops, back in the day, before the internet helped everything attain
unheard of speeds, put-up and tear-down models were rare. Designers and
developers were generally the same person, and we invariably, at the most,
drew a few token squares on paper to conform to some pie-in-the sky
principle of "software design." It was more of an ideal we were happy to
forego in order to get to the "real part" of our work -- coding. 

Today, with shorter and shorter cycles of solution rollout, higher and more
demanding expectations and bitter experiences from efforts wasted in unused
or badly treated applications, we more frequently turn to the artist to help
us render the ideas gained from use-focused analysis. This design makes
heavy use of models and mock-ups to present the general idea to users and
managers, so that understanding and level of enthusiasm both remain high,
and therefore the intelligent involvement of the concerned is secured,
providing a truly valuable, high quality end-result. To facilitate this
further, there is a standard modeling language which can be used to generate
the graphical UI and the underlying code. It is known as UML, the Unified
Modeling Language. UML can be used to help designers and developers (still
can be the same person, sometimes! 8) express the functionality of the
system in a common, shared and consistent way, regardless of the design
tools or development language employed. A great book to get started is: UML
Distilled, 2nd Edition; ISBN: 020165783x; URLs:
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=2-020165783x-0 -or-
http://www.bookpool.com/.x/6knw2yz050/ss/1?qs=020165783x+&Go.x=19&Go.y=7
</tip>

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael McGlynn [mailto:blastronaut at excite.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:54 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool


list rox -
I am a gui developer and I am entering the world of Windows applications.
Previously I have developed ASP and web GUIs using Illustrator, PS and
DHTML. 

Now that I am transitioning to Windows, I am wondering if there are any
standard prototyping tools for this platform. Not for coding, but
prototyping, ostensibly something that a small organisation could use for
collaboration. 

So far I have come up with Supercard, but nothing Win specific.

HELP

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
http://www.blastronaut.com
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From sgd at ti3.com  Thu May 24 12:03:41 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu May 24 12:03:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DD3@gate.ti3.com>

> list rox -
> I am a gui developer and I am entering the world of Windows applications.
> Previously I have developed ASP and web GUIs using Illustrator, PS and
> DHTML. 

Question #1 -- How are you writing ASP code with Illustrator, PhotoShop and
DHTML??

Question #2 -- What are you using to write your DHTML right now? SimpleText?
HomeSite? DreamWeaver?

> Now that I am transitioning to Windows, I am wondering if there are any

Illus and PS run on Windows, so your transfer to those tools should be
minimal. Are you asking about development environments? More specifics
please? 


sgd



From k.spice at acu.ac.uk  Thu May 24 12:06:55 2001
From: k.spice at acu.ac.uk (Katherine Spice)
Date: Thu May 24 12:06:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <3B0D422F.8937BCD6@acu.ac.uk>

Chris Johnston wrote:
> 9. Anything else you would like to share

I forgot this! MySQL isn't really an enterprise level solution. It's
very stable, and (touch wood) I've never lost data with it. Lots of high
traffic websites (slashdot) use it, and for selecting it's very fast. It
does not, however, support transactions and it rebuilds its indices
after each insert/update. The question is, how enterprise level are you?
We're happy to use MySQL (in preference to Access) for a the little
databases which are needed, but we run our major two off Oracle, because
they are "mission critical". We then have cut down copies (ie only
including the necessary data) which we mirror (at night) using custom
written Perl scripts for the website. This means we only pay licenses
for internal use.

YMMV :-)
Katherine



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Thu May 24 12:08:15 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu May 24 12:08:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
In-Reply-To: <5517669.990708840660.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com>
Message-ID: <B7328E27.3389%jcrawford@avencom.com>

Michael McGlynn wrote:

> I am a gui developer and I am entering the world of Windows applications.
> Previously I have developed ASP and web GUIs using Illustrator, PS and
> DHTML. 
> 
> Now that I am transitioning to Windows, I am wondering if there are any
> standard prototyping tools for this platform. Not for coding, but
> prototyping, ostensibly something that a small organisation could use for
> collaboration. 
> 
> So far I have come up with Supercard, but nothing Win specific.

Illustrator and Photoshop *are* available for Windows, which covers the
imagery side. As for rapid prototyping with "DHTML" - I presume you mean
things like prototyping interactions for usability testing. Seems like
Imageready and Fireworks and Dreamweaver and all the tools you might end up
using on a Mac you can also use on Windows.

Of course, I may be utterly misunderstanding your question.

    - Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher




From chris at completeimaging.com  Thu May 24 12:12:25 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Thu May 24 12:12:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D3DD3.83D9316F@acu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDGEGFCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Thank you.

Chris



From gary.swanson at xwave.com  Thu May 24 12:14:15 2001
From: gary.swanson at xwave.com (Gary B. Swanson)
Date: Thu May 24 12:14:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] handling long drop down list
Message-ID: <D6DA5AF1D8A3D411AD0700902764434D2B5AA8@INTRASERV>

New reader, first time writer.  Thanks for all the great info so far.

I am trying to find if there is a way to limit the width of items within a
drop-down or select list.

i.e.  limiting the display of the list item, or dynamically extending when a
longer item appears.  I have thought of limiting the input of information to
the drop-down, but am looking for another answer.

Thanks

Gary



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 12:17:40 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Thu May 24 12:17:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAEJOHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

chris,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Chris Johnston
:
: 3. Can both hook to ColdFusion
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yes.  ms-sql will be faster though since coldfusion can connect to it via
native drivers which are noticeably faster than an odbc connection.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: 4. Overall speed
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ms-sql is an enterprise level database server and will therefore be faster
overall.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: 5. Ease of use both in creating and managing
:    tables [...]
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ms-sql likely has a better, easier to use interface for creating and
managing the database.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: [...] as well as on the front-end for Joe
: Schmoe average user
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that's up to you as the developer to build.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: 6. Speed on the web
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

whether the database is used on the web or not has no bearing on its speed.
the reason for this is that the database is either queried by some sort of
management tool or by some sort of application server (asp, coldfusion,
etc.).  the speed for either of these connections is going to be relatively
the same.  what happens beyond that (the web aspect) depends on the speed of
the application server software, the speed of the webserver itself, and the
speed of the connection the webserver is on.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: We are looking for one single database
: solution that will allow us to connect
: it to a website (ColdFusion) as well as
: to be used in the office for entering
: data.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i'd recommend that you take a long hard look at sybase products as well.
we've been using them here for close to 3 years now and have been very happy
with them.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Unfortunately, due to the complexity
: of the data, we can not go with a browser
: based interface for the office and are
: therefore limited to an Access style
: front-end for data entry.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

there is no level of complexity that can keep you from building a
browser-based interface to the database for data entry -- none whatsoever.

thanks,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Thu May 24 12:19:50 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Thu May 24 12:19:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] handling long drop down list
Message-ID: <88256A56.005F2149.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


Gary wrote:

> I am trying to find if there is a way to limit the width of items within a
> drop-down or select list.

I would just see how long the string you're putting into the drop-down is.  If
it's greater than a certain number (say 30), I display only the first 30
characters (followed by "..." to signify that there's more to it).

But, that may not be good in all situations.  When I've used it, it's been for
things where it was clear what the whole item was and the user didn't
necessarily need to see the entire string.

Scott






From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu May 24 12:20:15 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu May 24 12:20:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] handling long drop down list
In-Reply-To: <D6DA5AF1D8A3D411AD0700902764434D2B5AA8@INTRASERV>
Message-ID: <200105241720.f4OHKA004430@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Gary B. Swanson" <gary.swanson at xwave.com>
[...]
> I am trying to find if there is a way to limit the width of items
> within a drop-down or select list.
> 
> i.e.  limiting the display of the list item, or dynamically extending
> when a longer item appears.  I have thought of limiting the input of
> information to the drop-down, but am looking for another answer.

the select menu's width is determined by the length of the longest 
chunk of text in there...

IE3/win used to do some interesting truncation on some select 
menus...

NN4.x- has problems resizing the menus when you use JS to re-write 
what appears there... often your text gets truncated...

you can use CSS, or even font tags in the case of NN3+, to adjust the 
size of the text... i've never tried clipping or setting an absolute 
width with CSS, though, so i'd be interested to hear if you try 
that...




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu May 24 12:45:55 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu May 24 12:45:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <01c0e478$72df0200$a250149a@rudy>

> there is no level of complexity that can keep you from
> building a browser-based interface to the database for
> data entry -- none whatsoever.

+1



and since "me too" posts are noise rather than signal...

<tip type="server side scripting">
in addition to serving up different style sheets, use browser sniffing to
set a variable for css capability, to enable non-css options -- for example
(using cold fusion syntax),

   <table <CFIF css is 0>bgcolor="#F9F3F7" border="2"
         <CFELSE>style="background-color:#F9F3F7;
                                 border:2px ridge #93f7ff;"</CFIF>
       cellpadding="8" cellspacing="0">

</tip>


rudy




From frank at loofahcom.com  Thu May 24 12:54:20 2001
From: frank at loofahcom.com (Frank)
Date: Thu May 24 12:54:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFMail Failure on Linux. Quick Help?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010524134853.009e2490@mail>

Hey all, sorry to bug you about this, but I'm in a bit of a time sensitive 
bind. I've discovered that none of the my apps using cfmail send mail 
successfully on my Linux box, using qMail as a server. I don't really have 
a choices as to which mail server to use. The apps work well on an NT box 
using whatever mail services would be standard. Can someone suggest how I 
can work around this issue? Here are the details:


cfmail fails to communicate correctly with my mail server.

I'm using CF4.5sp2 on RH Linux 6.2 and qMail.

The cfserver does indeed make contact with the mail server, but it 
(apparently) fails to send the message in a legal manner, it terminates the 
message with lf.lf instead of cr.lf. Here is the error message from my logs.

"Error","TID=3075","05/23/01","15:37:59",
"Failed to send the spooled mail file, 
/usr/local/coldfusion/mail/spool/fileMStCrN.cfmail.
SMTP server replied "See http://pobox.com/~djb/docs/smtplf.html." Moved 
file to /usr/local/coldfusion/mail/undelivr/filetnllNZ.cfmail

Following the URL in the error message leads me to a page with the 
following explanation, distilled here, for brevity:

---
Error: Bare Line Feeds

Every line in an Internet mail message is required to end with CR LF. The 
entire message ends with CR LF dot CR LF. 822bis specifically prohibits 
other uses of LF.

[...]

...incorrectly ending lines with LF and, in most cases, ending the entire 
message with LF dot LF. That's not CR LF dot CR LF, so a server such as 
msn.com will sit there waiting for the rest of the message. After a while 
it'll give up and drop the connection. Your mail doesn't get through.
---

Heres what I've done to check things out:

I know that qMail functions correctly, having sent and recieved email from 
it using external agents.

According to the knowledge base article 
http://allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=11335&Method=Full

I've done the following:

1) In the admin section, I've ensured that the connection to my mail server 
verifies correctly.

2) I'm sending only one single email, thus, it's not over the limit.

3) I have full privs

4) I've sucessfully sent and recieved email using another client.

5) I'm using the correct IP, and it pings.

This is the case with all my applications on the Linux box. I'm at a loss 
as to what my next step may be.

Suggestions? Thanks.




From fowlerpeople at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 13:01:51 2001
From: fowlerpeople at yahoo.com (Terry Fowler)
Date: Thu May 24 13:01:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e403$c1601bf0$6e03150a@bruceh>
Message-ID: <20010524180220.43033.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bruce Heerssen <bheerssen at visualbridge.tv> wrote:
> Google is great for this sort of thing:

heh, yeah, I know. That's why I went there first.
Unfortunately I just typed in "dhtml". 

>
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:evolt%2Eorg+innerwidth
> 
> Which points you at this very fine evolt article:
> Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I  (aardvark)
>
http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_I/17/2295/in
> dex.html
> 
> This article covers the subject in some depth -
> happy reading.

Great looking article. Looks like I have my Memorial
Day planned. Well, except for going to see 
"Pearl Harbor."

I keep forgetting that evolt is more than a list!

Thanks loads, Bruce

Terry 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From fowlerpeople at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 13:08:10 2001
From: fowlerpeople at yahoo.com (Terry Fowler)
Date: Thu May 24 13:08:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F20b6KZmcK8r6b00016435@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010524180840.95621.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Peter-Paul Koch <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> IE needs document.body.clientWidth. 

In the spirit of "Give a man a fish, feed him for a
day, teach a man to fish and he'll never show up for
work," how did you know it was clientWidth? Where 
should I have looked?

>Your current browser detect is incorrect, it leaves 
>out Netscape 6 and the minor browsers. 

heh, it's Dan Steinman's detect and is probably a few
years out of date. No mention of IE5 in the tutorial.
The copyright is 1998, so I don't think he's updating
it. But it's still great for the basics.

> Besides, detecting the browser is not necessary
here:
> 
> >function init() {
> 
> if (self.innerWidth) redLight = self.innerWidth
> else if (document.body) redLight =
> document.body.clientWidth
> 
Just tried this and it works like a charm. Thanks!

Terry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From cache at dowebs.com  Thu May 24 13:11:15 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Thu May 24 13:11:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] bust out of the frames
References: <85256A55.0064BD1F.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com> <3B0C294B.3D6BDC21@limitless.co.uk> <3B0D189B.BF7B2D3F@dowebs.com> <3B0D24B3.3A46E9B@limitless.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B0D4F65.51DAF5C3@dowebs.com>

Paola Kathuria wrote:

> Which navigation are you referring to?  The right-hand tour index

The RIGHT hand tour index?? OK! That explains it! And using frames does
make sense on second viewing.

Uhhh, guess it's pretty easy to figure out how little time I spent
there....  ooppss

keith



From blastronaut at excite.com  Thu May 24 13:11:55 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Thu May 24 13:11:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
Message-ID: <31003619.990727939607.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com>

good questions, answers follow --

>>Question #1 -- How are you writing ASP code with Illustrator, PhotoShop
and DHTML??<<

We are currently coding .JSPs - as much of the DHTML as possible is re-used,
e.g. for styles and form behaviors, but XML/XSL is delivered client side,
and I don't touch that. Yes, we are IE5.5 only.

>>Question #2 -- What are you using to write your DHTML right now?
SimpleText? HomeSite? DreamWeaver?<<

Homesite. The problem is a hell of a lot of static html gets written that is
not used in the final product. I am looking for a tool who's result is
interactive, but may not generate code. At one point I was generating
multipage .PDFs with hyperlinks, but that doesn't provide enough "ffel" is
ia very time consiming. 
Our GUI is highly customized and heavily leveraged on MSIE technology (not
always a good thing).

MY Bad - when I said transitioning to Windows,  I mean that instead of
browser delivered app, we will be delivering an installable .EXE. How do
people that write Windows apps prototype UI?

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 13:20:40 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Thu May 24 13:20:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <20010524180840.95621.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEKCHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

terry,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Terry Fowler
:
: > IE needs document.body.clientWidth.
:
: In the spirit of "Give a man a fish, feed
: him for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll
: never show up for work," how did you know it
: was clientWidth? Where should I have looked?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

for ie related things, *always* check msdn first:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/c-frame.htm?/workshop/author/

everything you probably ever wanted to know is under "dhtml reference" in
the left hand navigation.

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Thu May 24 13:29:41 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Thu May 24 13:29:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Libel
Message-ID: <000c01c0e480$1290cc00$6400a8c0@kjs>

As I said earlier in the week, I've been away for a while so I don't know if
anyone has seen this, but it might be of interest to some of you (I had a
brief look in the archives and could find nothing about it). I subscribe to
the NTK newsletter and found this in my in-box when I returned. Apologies if
this is a wind up, and because I feel this is [OT] I have included a tip,
which is, I think (by my standards anyway), quite a good one :)


<snip>
         There is, you should know, a statute of limitations on
         libel: in a nutshell, if it takes over a year for the
         alleged defamee to get around to suing you, then - well, it
         can't have been very important, can it? It's one of the
         precious few cast-iron defences you can have in British
         libel cases, and one you'd expect to be even more important
         in the ethereal ghoulie-ghosty world of the Net. Not so:
         last week, Justice Gray announced that The Times, who are
         supposed to have defamed Grigori Loutchansky in 1998, are
         repeatedly re-publishing the same article anew whenever
         anyone visits it on their Website, and thus can be sued
         until they be deade. And now you too can be sued forever
         over your archived Web content - unless you take it down the
         day it goes up.
</snip>

<tip type="CSS" author="Kevin Stevens">
Much has been said recently on the List about using Style Sheets for text,
but did you know it can also be used for images? Rather than use complex
tables to position images and text you can set margins for the images using
CSS. For example, if you want a picture on the left hand side of the page
put this in your Style Sheet...

img.lhand {margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em; margin-top: 1em;
margin-bottom: 1em;}

and then add class="lhand" in your image tags. This means that the picture
will stay flush with the left hand side of the page while the text flows
neatly around it.

</tip>

Kev
kjs at ratking.co.uk






From mrogers at ocis.net  Thu May 24 13:34:11 2001
From: mrogers at ocis.net (Mark Rogers)
Date: Thu May 24 13:34:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
Message-ID: <B732A22C.3181%mrogers@ocis.net>

Here's what I'd like to do:

1. Copy text, which has two returns between each paragraph, from a word
processor (AppleWorks) and paste it into a Dreamweaver template.

2. Quickly format the text in Dreamweaver so that each *paragraph* is
surrounded by <P> and </P> tags.

Is this possible?

Mark Rogers




From web at master.gen.in.us  Thu May 24 13:35:46 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Thu May 24 13:35:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D1E29.A401142B@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <3B0D1D83.17283.91C8D03@localhost>

On 24 May 2001, at 8:43, Keith Davis posted a message which said:

> > > <meta http-equiv= "pragma" content="no-cache">
> > That's not a legal use of pragma. Pragma is for headers sent
> > *to* the server *by* the client, not from the server to the client.
 
> What browsers does the pragma meta tag NOT work in? 

I don't know. You have to be concerned about firewalls, though,
not just browsers, and I don't begin to have access to all of them.

> And if "Pragma is for headers sent *to* the server *by* the client, not
> from the server to the client" is true, then why does sending
> print "Pragma: no-cache\n"; from a server keep the page out of the cache?

I'm not sure it *always* does.

HTTP 1.0 specifies "pragma" as a header to be sent by clients 
when requesting a fresh copy of a page, not by servers. 

Can you name *any* circumstance in which the illegal "pragma" 
header works and these headers don't?
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">








------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From mike at tokenzone.com  Thu May 24 13:41:46 2001
From: mike at tokenzone.com (Michael Stevens)
Date: Thu May 24 13:41:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
In-Reply-To: <B732A22C.3181%mrogers@ocis.net>
Message-ID: <PEEFINEOJCNKLJFFDDFCAEGKCCAA.mike@tokenzone.com>

In Dreamweaver 4 on a PC it does that automatically (from MS Word anyway).
I don't know about previous versions of Dreamweaver and other word
processors though.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Rogers
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 2:34 PM
To: evolt.org list
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input


Here's what I'd like to do:

1. Copy text, which has two returns between each paragraph, from a word
processor (AppleWorks) and paste it into a Dreamweaver template.

2. Quickly format the text in Dreamweaver so that each *paragraph* is
surrounded by <P> and </P> tags.

Is this possible?

Mark Rogers


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From noah at tookish.net  Thu May 24 13:45:51 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Thu May 24 13:45:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] unauthorized mirror
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524143816.00a1e7e0@tookish.net>

Hi,

I just happened to come across what appears to be a mirror of my site. I 
have no idea where it came from, but my site is fairly recent (< 1 month), 
so it must be fairly new.

My site is http://tookish.net/
The mirror is http://www.ate-reisen.de/

Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Am I being scammed, or is there 
a security risk involved? (as far as I can tell, it can't do any damage - 
the only thing that isn't static is the contact form, and it doesn't work 
from the mirror, and doesn't appear to attempt to access my formmail script).

I tried a whois, but my German being limited to historical pastry-related 
blunders, I didn't get very far.

Should I be concerned, or is this just free advertising?

Thanks,

Noah




From seth at sethbienek.com  Thu May 24 13:56:01 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Thu May 24 13:56:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] unauthorized mirror
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524143816.00a1e7e0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>

> Does anyone have any idea what's going on? 

Hey Noah,

That's weird.  Their DNS is pointing to your site, so it's not actually a mirror, it is your live site.  No harm that I can see, I'd submit the extra domain name to the search engines.. :)

Regards,

Seth

------------------------------
Seth Bienek
Solutions Development Manager
Stonebridge Technologies, Inc.
972.455.7294 tel
972.404.9754 fax
ICQ #7673959
------------------------------ 





From comitque at hotmail.com  Thu May 24 14:08:26 2001
From: comitque at hotmail.com (Andrew Martin)
Date: Thu May 24 14:08:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] css formatting
References: <20010524155228.0B060C05@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <OE5Rf6Ci6nx8dyDd3OJ00006f39@hotmail.com>

I've got a bunch of divs that I'm positioning absolutely (or is that
absolutely positioning).  Same old story...works fine in IE6 and Netscape 6
but Netscape4.7 seems to have a problem with the width property.  It works
fine if there's content in the div that takes up the entire width of the div
but not when it's smaller than the width of the div.  I want the #quote and
#sidepic to be exactly the same width...  Here's the CSS, any ideas?:

#content
{position:absolute;top:80px;left:158px;width:600px;background:#384651;paddin
g:5px;border-left:1px solid black;}
#sidenav {position:absolute;top:200px;left:20px;width:137px;}
#quote {position:absolute;top:80px;left:20px;width:137px;height:150px;}
#sidepic {position:absolute;top:350px;left:20px;width:137px;height:188px;}
.quote {font-family:verdana, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12px;background:#000000;padding:3px;color:#FAFAD2;layer
-background-color:#000000;}
.sidenav
{font-size:12px;color:#000000;background:#FAFAD2;padding:2px;layer-backgroun
d-color:#FAFAD2;}

here's the page (the quote is the top black and the sidenav is directly
below it): http://www.prispop.com/prisdiv.asp



From bradclark1 at msn.com  Thu May 24 15:00:21 2001
From: bradclark1 at msn.com (bradclark1)
Date: Thu May 24 15:00:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
References: <31003619.990727939607.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com>
Message-ID: <003001c0e4a4$fffe4fc0$9657fea9@compaq>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael McGlynn" <blastronaut at excite.com>
> MY Bad - when I said transitioning to Windows,  I mean that instead of
> browser delivered app, we will be delivering an installable .EXE. How do
> people that write Windows apps prototype UI?
>

There is Tcl/Tk, Python and WxWindows or even Delphi that give a lot for
minimal key pushing.

brad




From sgd at ti3.com  Thu May 24 15:04:54 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu May 24 15:04:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DE8@gate.ti3.com>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael McGlynn" <blastronaut at excite.com>
> > MY Bad - when I said transitioning to Windows,  I mean that 
> instead of
> > browser delivered app, we will be delivering an installable 
> .EXE. How do
> > people that write Windows apps prototype UI?
> >

My initial question is, what development environment? VB? VC++?
PowerBuilder? Flash? --each development environment provides its own GUI
design tool. Do you know what the app is going to be developed on/in?

(my gut feeling is that you're going to be disappointed)
sgd



From john_meyer at geocities.com  Thu May 24 15:07:02 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Thu May 24 15:07:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Libel
In-Reply-To: <000c01c0e480$1290cc00$6400a8c0@kjs>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524140434.00a58f70@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually, this is one of the things that makes me proud to be an American *JK*.

Actually, there was a case just like this in New York involving the 
Attorney General's web site.  The case went exactly the other way of this 
one, with the judge ruling that the same year rule applies whether or not 
it's online or offline.  I'll try to look up the case.



At 12:47 PM 5/24/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>As I said earlier in the week, I've been away for a while so I don't know if
>anyone has seen this, but it might be of interest to some of you (I had a
>brief look in the archives and could find nothing about it). I subscribe to
>the NTK newsletter and found this in my in-box when I returned. Apologies if
>this is a wind up, and because I feel this is [OT] I have included a tip,
>which is, I think (by my standards anyway), quite a good one :)
>
>
><snip>
>          There is, you should know, a statute of limitations on
>          libel: in a nutshell, if it takes over a year for the
>          alleged defamee to get around to suing you, then - well, it
>          can't have been very important, can it? It's one of the
>          precious few cast-iron defences you can have in British
>          libel cases, and one you'd expect to be even more important
>          in the ethereal ghoulie-ghosty world of the Net. Not so:
>          last week, Justice Gray announced that The Times, who are
>          supposed to have defamed Grigori Loutchansky in 1998, are
>          repeatedly re-publishing the same article anew whenever
>          anyone visits it on their Website, and thus can be sued
>          until they be deade. And now you too can be sued forever
>          over your archived Web content - unless you take it down the
>          day it goes up.
></snip>
>
><tip type="CSS" author="Kevin Stevens">
>Much has been said recently on the List about using Style Sheets for text,
>but did you know it can also be used for images? Rather than use complex
>tables to position images and text you can set margins for the images using
>CSS. For example, if you want a picture on the left hand side of the page
>put this in your Style Sheet...
>
>img.lhand {margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em; margin-top: 1em;
>margin-bottom: 1em;}
>
>and then add class="lhand" in your image tags. This means that the picture
>will stay flush with the left hand side of the page while the text flows
>neatly around it.
>
></tip>
>
>Kev
>kjs at ratking.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From fowlerpeople at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 15:30:24 2001
From: fowlerpeople at yahoo.com (Terry Fowler)
Date: Thu May 24 15:30:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELIEKCHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010524203051.34832.qmail@web9604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- jeff <jeff at members.evolt.org> wrote:
> terry,
> 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : From: Terry Fowler
> :
>> IE needs document.body.clientWidth.
> 
> for ie related things, *always* check msdn first:
> 
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/c-frame.htm?/workshop/author/
> 
Hmm, I got this URL from google:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/default.asp

I spent some time there but never got the left hand
navigation that your URL has. Reckon I'll just 
bookmark that puppy and go back frequently!

Thanks jeff,

Terry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From gozz at gozz.com  Thu May 24 15:32:42 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Thu May 24 15:32:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] unauthorized mirror
In-Reply-To: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <p04310100b7331ed924ed@[192.168.1.100]>

>  > Does anyone have any idea what's going on?
>
>Hey Noah,
>
>That's weird.  Their DNS is pointing to your site, so it's not 
>actually a mirror

I had the same thing happen to a site I did at one time, except I was 
on the other end ... the domain and account had been cancelled for a 
year ... one day I got the following email:

>I am the webmaster of www.[___].org.  Why are you running our
>code / site at www.[___].com?  You have my interest but not
>our permission to steal our code.  So, before I take this any
>further, I thought I would give you an opportunity to reply.

Getting the DNS updated might be a tricky thing to do since the DNS 
service seems to be a free service, and you get what you pay for ... 
but good luck!
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

"For best results, pronounce muh THEIGH ess."

(612) 827 3963



From nick.myers at net.ntl.com  Thu May 24 15:45:32 2001
From: nick.myers at net.ntl.com (Nick Myers)
Date: Thu May 24 15:45:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
Message-ID: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>

Wonder if I could ask you guys to delve into your wealth of varied
experience?

My company is about to task me with building web based applications (using
nice NS&IE 4.x compliant code - np) that will display lots of analysis
data/graphs and location maps all within a confined environment.  Now they
already have a desktop application that does this, but they want a web
version that they can sell subscriptions to.  My question is this: do you
guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance, weather,
sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:

- A map with points drawn on it, where a user mouses over a given point, and
a pop-up (attached to the cursor) appears with some live data in it.
- A map with transparent overlays that can be switched on/off showing
various transparencies.
- Same as above, but with animation controls to animate (step) through
individually rendered graphics [JPEGS] (without having to use a server-side
program to render all the images into one animation).
- A clickable location map, where a list of available data appears once a
location is clicked, and from there the option to interrogate the data and
return data either in tabular or graph format.
- Graphing with threshold setting/changing ability.

Now my key concern is that although this will effectively be on a web site,
I would like it to behave more like an application (even if it takes some
time to load) as you would expect on your desktop.  I can achieve most of
the above by using layers, and timelines (in dreamweaver) that work with IE
4.x and 5.x, but nothing that works with NS 4.x

I've looked at ArcView and GIS, which seem ideal, but I'm being asked to do
something WITHOUT those tools for now.

I sincerely appreciate any input offered.

Thanks

Nick




From rwd at csi1st.net  Thu May 24 15:51:07 2001
From: rwd at csi1st.net (Ron Dorman)
Date: Thu May 24 15:51:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
References: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>
Message-ID: <3B0D7543.9D4F6546@csi1st.net>

you could write it as a Win32 app and deliver it via browsers with Citrix or the
application server in Win2000.  These servers allow a "published" Win app to be
run via a browser.

Nick Myers wrote:

> Wonder if I could ask you guys to delve into your wealth of varied
> experience?
>
> My company is about to task me with building web based applications (using
> nice NS&IE 4.x compliant code - np) that will display lots of analysis
> data/graphs and location maps all within a confined environment.  Now they
> already have a desktop application that does this, but they want a web
> version that they can sell subscriptions to.  My question is this: do you
> guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance, weather,
> sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:
>
> - A map with points drawn on it, where a user mouses over a given point, and
> a pop-up (attached to the cursor) appears with some live data in it.
> - A map with transparent overlays that can be switched on/off showing
> various transparencies.
> - Same as above, but with animation controls to animate (step) through
> individually rendered graphics [JPEGS] (without having to use a server-side
> program to render all the images into one animation).
> - A clickable location map, where a list of available data appears once a
> location is clicked, and from there the option to interrogate the data and
> return data either in tabular or graph format.
> - Graphing with threshold setting/changing ability.
>
> Now my key concern is that although this will effectively be on a web site,
> I would like it to behave more like an application (even if it takes some
> time to load) as you would expect on your desktop.  I can achieve most of
> the above by using layers, and timelines (in dreamweaver) that work with IE
> 4.x and 5.x, but nothing that works with NS 4.x
>
> I've looked at ArcView and GIS, which seem ideal, but I'm being asked to do
> something WITHOUT those tools for now.
>
> I sincerely appreciate any input offered.
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From JBacon at MAILEX.TRA.com  Thu May 24 16:02:42 2001
From: JBacon at MAILEX.TRA.com (Jerry Bacon)
Date: Thu May 24 16:02:42 2001
Subject: [fwd] RE: [thelist] Web based applications
Message-ID: <000d15701211851BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
This message was held by thelist software and
is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
format only, or they will not reach thelist
until it is later forwarded by a list admin.
---------------------------------------------


http://www.esri.com/data/online/index.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Nick Myers
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications

..
My question is this: do you
guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance,
weather,
sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:

<snip />




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 16:07:52 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Thu May 24 16:07:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <20010524203051.34832.qmail@web9604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELGEKOHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

terry,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Terry Fowler
:
: Hmm, I got this URL from google:
:
: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/default.asp
:
: I spent some time there but never
: got the left hand navigation that
: your URL has. Reckon I'll just
: bookmark that puppy and go back
: frequently!
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you'll find a blue bar near the top that has a "show toc" link.  if you're
using ie5+ it'll give you the frame you see with the link i sent ya.  you
can also sync the toc to the page you're viewing as well.

don't concern yourself with just the dhtml reference though.  there's *so*
much more documented about ie -- some stuff that's truly amazing.

good luck,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From noah at tookish.net  Thu May 24 16:08:42 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Thu May 24 16:08:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] unauthorized mirror
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b7331ed924ed@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
 <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010524165844.00a187a0@tookish.net>

Thanks Seth and Erik.

>>That's weird.  Their DNS is pointing to your site, so it's not actually a 
>>mirror
>
>Getting the DNS updated might be a tricky thing to do since the DNS 
>service seems to be a free service, and you get what you pay for ... but 
>good luck!

My DNS is a free service, but they're using different name servers, the 
domain for which, according to babblefish, "still is in the structure." 
Maybe it will get cleared up if/when they get out of the structure.

Cheers,

Noah




From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Thu May 24 16:18:42 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Thu May 24 16:18:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] unauthorized mirror
References: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIMEMJDNAA.seth@sethbienek.com>
Message-ID: <00d501c0e497$8279f840$2088043e@r3g4p8>

> That's weird.  Their DNS is pointing to your site, so it's not actually a
mirror, it is your live site.  No harm that I can see, I'd submit the extra
domain name to the search engines.. :)

Seems like they made a mistake when they entered the dns entry. Now they
will change this "asap" I guess, and your site won't show up anymore on
their domain...

Philippe

<tip type="zope : oodb or sql">
When you are not sure if you need to use an external db with zope or not,
you'll most of the time find that you don't need an rdms with it. You can
pretty do everything you do with an rdms on zope, instead it will be easier
and probably faster. Or maybe you've overlooked zope?
</tip>





From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Thu May 24 16:18:47 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Thu May 24 16:18:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows App GUI Tool
References: <31003619.990727939607.JavaMail.imail@hippie.excite.com>
Message-ID: <00d401c0e497$81ca7e60$2088043e@r3g4p8>

> MY Bad - when I said transitioning to Windows,  I mean that instead of
> browser delivered app, we will be delivering an installable .EXE. How do
> people that write Windows apps prototype UI?

With a RAD ;-) (rapid application developement tool)

There are quite a lot : the main are probably microsoft VB, borland Delphi,
and some others I forgot. Delphi is my favorite but ymmv.

If it's only a matter of designing "standard" ui, you may be be lucky in the
opensource area as well : there are plenty of great toolkits for rapid,
cross plateform ui developement. My first idea : python with wxpython, a gui
toolkit like http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ ...could do the job in
an really efficient manner. Wxpython is a cross plateform gui warper, so it
works under windows, *nix, and soon macos9/x. Boa is inspired by delphi btw.

Hope this helps a bit...

Philippe Jadin
123piano.com




From java_fella at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 16:25:27 2001
From: java_fella at yahoo.com (Thomas Granger)
Date: Thu May 24 16:25:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: dreamweaver text input (Thomas Granger)
In-Reply-To: <20010524201313.9B1E75224A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010524212558.28156.qmail@web3205.mail.yahoo.com>

Can you just define a style and apply it to your text
every time you import? Or do I have what you want to
do wrong here?
-- 
Sign up for free Web & Graphic Design Templates at:
http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=5958

--__--__--


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Thu May 24 16:45:42 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Thu May 24 16:45:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
References: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>
Message-ID: <3B0D8127.A2B2540E@nc.rr.com>

You might take a look at Macromedia Generator
<URL:http://www.macromedia.com/software/generator/>, combined with server-side
scripting to your database.  This would give you database populated Flash
interfaces.  All of the functionality you describe should be possible in that
environment.  I would help, of course, to have someone around who was handy with
the nuts and bolts of Flash interface building.

--rt


Nick Myers wrote:

>  My question is this: do you
> guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance, weather,
> sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:



From msaidi at ced-concord.com  Thu May 24 16:49:21 2001
From: msaidi at ced-concord.com (Saidi; Marwan)
Date: Thu May 24 16:49:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFMail Failure on Linux. Quick Help?
Message-ID: <01May24.174100edt.117123@gateway.ced-concord.com>

This was just posted on the CF-Linux list, thought it may help....

-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Childress [mailto:cameronc at mindspring.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:15 PM
To: CF-Linux
Subject: RE: CFMAIL and qmail


I ran into this a little while back.

CFMAIL will not send mail through a Qmail server.  This is due, as you
stated, to the bare linefeed problem.  In the very most strict
interpretation CF is violating RFC821 and RFC822 for email formatting.  Most
mail servers are a little more forgiving and allow mail malformed in this
way through anyway.  Qmail's author(s) happen to feel a little differently,
and require mail to absolutely conform without bare linefeeds.

*** This problem has been fixed in CF 5. ***

My workaround was to point CF at a different mailserver, but I did see
several other possible workarounds.  Again, I haven't tested any of these,
but feel free to give them a shot:

1) Try adding a CR manually to the end of each message line in your CF using
#Chr()#

2) If you have control over the qmail server, there is a workaround in the
qmail discussion list archives that I found once, which described modifying
qmail so that it would accept mail.  I think I bookmarked it at work, if
you'd like me to check for the link when I get in on monday just mail me
offlist.

3) I briefly attempted writing a "bare linefeed scrubber" into a V3 of the
CF_ResendUndeliverableMail tag I've been working on, but I haven't been able
to figure out the RegEx Required for it.  If you figure it out, I'd love to
have the regex...  You could scedule an event using such a tag to scrub the
linefeeds off the files after they end up in the undelivr directory, then
copy them back into the spool using CFFILE.

4) Use a different SMTP server.

Hope that helps!

-Cameron

--------------------
Cameron Childress
elliptIQ Inc.
p.770.460.7277.232
f.770.460.0963

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dennis baldwin [mailto:dennis at zapdesigns.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:43 PM
> To: CF-Linux
> Subject: CFMAIL and qmail
>
>
> Has anyone successfully implemented CFMAIL and qmail?  I'm aware
> of the bare
> LF problem but does anyone know of a workaround?    The mail log reads:
>
> SMTP server replied "See http://pobox.com/~djb/docs/smtplf.html."
> Moved file
> to /opt/coldfusion/mail/undelivr/filex4TWf5.cfmail"
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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the body.




From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk  Thu May 24 16:49:27 2001
From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (Kristina Floyd)
Date: Thu May 24 16:49:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
In-Reply-To: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>
References: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>
Message-ID: <8134673157.20010524224939@kfx-design.co.uk>

Nick,

  Have you considered Flash?  (Though I note you have said without
  those tools, Flash wasn't listed)  Especially if download isn't a
  problem?

-- 
hth
 :-]k[-:                       

Thursday, May 24, 2001, 9:47:40 PM, you wrote:

NM> Wonder if I could ask you guys to delve into your wealth of varied
NM> experience?

NM> My company is about to task me with building web based applications (using
NM> nice NS&IE 4.x compliant code - np) that will display lots of analysis
NM> data/graphs and location maps all within a confined environment.  Now they
NM> already have a desktop application that does this, but they want a web
NM> version that they can sell subscriptions to.  My question is this: do you
NM> guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance, weather,
NM> sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:

NM> - A map with points drawn on it, where a user mouses over a given point, and
NM> a pop-up (attached to the cursor) appears with some live data in it.
NM> - A map with transparent overlays that can be switched on/off showing
NM> various transparencies.
NM> - Same as above, but with animation controls to animate (step) through
NM> individually rendered graphics [JPEGS] (without having to use a server-side
NM> program to render all the images into one animation).
NM> - A clickable location map, where a list of available data appears once a
NM> location is clicked, and from there the option to interrogate the data and
NM> return data either in tabular or graph format.
NM> - Graphing with threshold setting/changing ability.

NM> Now my key concern is that although this will effectively be on a web site,
NM> I would like it to behave more like an application (even if it takes some
NM> time to load) as you would expect on your desktop.  I can achieve most of
NM> the above by using layers, and timelines (in dreamweaver) that work with IE
NM> 4.x and 5.x, but nothing that works with NS 4.x

NM> I've looked at ArcView and GIS, which seem ideal, but I'm being asked to do
NM> something WITHOUT those tools for now.

NM> I sincerely appreciate any input offered.

NM> Thanks

NM> Nick


NM> ---------------------------------------
NM> For unsubscribe and other options, including
NM> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
NM> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 





From cache at dowebs.com  Thu May 24 17:46:08 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Thu May 24 17:46:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <3B0D1D83.17283.91C8D03@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0D8FD5.48A63504@dowebs.com>

deke wrote:

> HTTP 1.0 specifies "pragma" as a header to be sent by clients
> when requesting a fresh copy of a page, not by servers.
> 
> Can you name *any* circumstance in which the illegal "pragma"
> header works and these headers don't?
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT">
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">

Yeah. I can't see how you would use a meta tag to tell the browser to
keep a certain image, or an external javascript, or an embedded cgi
response out of the cache while caching the rest of the page. But,
sending the Pragma: no-cache header along with those page components
will do the trick. 

You can run across Pragma: no-cache occasionally in CPAN modules and
from what I've read it has been used by Perl programmers for years as
the preferred method of keeping content and/or full pages out of the
cache. (Maybe that's because we're always looking for the least verbose
way to do something.)

The way I understand it, the browser starts to read a page from cache,
discovers it has expired, requests (via pragma?) the lastModifiedDate
and/or fileSize from the server, and then may continue to display the
page from its cache if no change has been made in the interval. Which
means that the server has to return instructions on that pragma request,
and a pragma header originating from the server is simply preempting the
request. Appearantly "no-cache" is one of the responses that the browser
understands.

Delivering dynamic components to realestate on static web pages is
becoming a very large industry. Managing what gets cached in the mix is
a problem in this area that has many solutions, each with many
proponents. Can you offer a URL that points to the standard you quote??
Or better, what kind of data is exchanged in a pragma request/response?

keith



From matt at sweetillusions.org  Thu May 24 18:24:13 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Thu May 24 18:24:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] .shtml vs. .html (how to make .html + includes work with ssi)
Message-ID: <025801c0e4a8$b3b3af30$6900000a@tendocom.org>

i know someone had asked this a while ago, but didn't see a real good
response (i don't think)

so here ya'r:


What if I have hundreds of html pages. Do I have to rename every one of them
with an shtml extension?
 To work around this problem, make a .htaccess file in your root directory,
add only this to the first line:
 AddType text/x-server-parsed-html .html

That's it, and that will make the server scour all html pages looking for
SSI commands. Although, this won't work with everything as some CGI's get
messed up, but 80% works fine.




        .. matt

        .. www.sweetillusions.org
        .. matt at sweetillusions.org

        .. in our madness evermore we rave - chaucer





From charliel at infohwy.com  Thu May 24 18:25:18 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Thu May 24 18:25:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
Message-ID: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>

Hi all,

I have a url such as

/travel/pages/cities.php?city=houston

which I want to change to

page.php?t_dir=pages&t_page=cities.php&city=houston

I have 
RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /travel
RewriteRule ^pages/([^\?]+)[\?]*(.*)$     page.php?t_dir=pages&t_page=$1&$2

in my .htaccess in the travel directory

Ideally I want the mod_rewrite work whether or not there is a query string
on the original url, but it will not see anything at all after the ? in the
original url

Echoing $t_page always gives cities.php even if the original url contains
cities.php?city=houston.

Regex/Rewrite gurus, what am I doing wrong?

Charlie




From charliel at infohwy.com  Thu May 24 18:27:48 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Thu May 24 18:27:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>
Message-ID: <004101c0e4b9$b6d0e500$6e202fc0@emmis.com>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlie Llewellin" <charliel at infohwy.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 4:25 PM
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
\
Shoot, I meant to say that $city is always empty if....
> 
> Echoing $t_page always gives cities.php even if the original url contains
> cities.php?city=houston.
> 
> Regex/Rewrite gurus, what am I doing wrong?
> 





From marty at face2interface.com  Thu May 24 18:50:48 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Thu May 24 18:50:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] .shtml vs. .html (how to make .html + includes
  work with ssi)
In-Reply-To: <025801c0e4a8$b3b3af30$6900000a@tendocom.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010524194804.00a04ad0@pop.ulster.net>

At Thursday 5/24/01 07:24 PM, matt newell wrote:

>To work around this problem, make a .htaccess file in your root directory,
>add only this to the first line:
>  AddType text/x-server-parsed-html .html
>
>That's it, and that will make the server scour all html pages looking for
>SSI commands. Although, this won't work with everything as some CGI's get
>messed up, but 80% works fine.

Matt,

What does this mean? Are you saying that doing this, 4 out 5 'exec cgi='s 
will fail through no fault of the developer? Or do I misunderstand you?

Marty

Face 2 Interface Web Solutions
Content Management Made SIMPL(tm)
Free Trial for Your Website Available
http://face2interface.com/Home/Trial.shtml




From regulov at hotmail.com  Thu May 24 18:54:48 2001
From: regulov at hotmail.com (William Snowden)
Date: Thu May 24 18:54:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Newbie: web-based db
Message-ID: <F10oMWH1KOzMTlu6h3800012d56@hotmail.com>

I want to build a database to be accessed via browser.  I want to be able to 
do all the work from home (on a Mac (OS 8.6)).  I don't want to spend any 
money.  Is it possible?  How do I go about it?
Thanks....

Bill Snowden
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From bobd at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 19:41:44 2001
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Thu May 24 19:41:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Newbie: web-based db
In-Reply-To: <F10oMWH1KOzMTlu6h3800012d56@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200105250042.f4P0g7815804@chmls06.mediaone.net>

On Thursday, May 24, 2001, at 07:55 PM, William Snowden wrote:

> I want to build a database to be accessed via browser.  I want to be 
> able to do all the work from home (on a Mac (OS 8.6)).  I don't want to 
> spend any money.  Is it possible?  How do I go about it?
> Thanks....

You want to develop on the Mac or host on the Mac or both?

The implications are totally different depending on what you need to 
have happen.

Hosting on the Mac (with 8.6) may not be the best answer in any event. 
There are no free databases that I'm aware of for that operating system. 
There might still be a free version of Frontier (http://www.userland 
.com/ ) but I'm not sure if it's still available.

If you just want to develop on the Mac and host on another system, then 
knowing what kind of server and databases you have available  (and what 
kind of access you have available) are important.

You'll also need to know some kind of scripting languages or application 
server environments to make it happen.

There are plenty of "free" systems (databases, languages, application 
servers) available, but there's nothing in this world worth doing that 
is absolutely free (except maybe spending a nice afternoon on a deserted 
beach with someone you love).  There's always time and learning to 
account for.

There's no reason that you can't develop a nice database driven web site 
on a macintosh though - it happens every day.

bob
--
bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu May 24 19:52:04 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu May 24 19:52:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Newbie: web-based db
In-Reply-To: <200105250042.f4P0g7815804@chmls06.mediaone.net>
References: <200105250042.f4P0g7815804@chmls06.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <p05100303b7335b44827e@[192.168.1.5]>

>On Thursday, May 24, 2001, at 07:55 PM, William Snowden wrote:
>
>>I want to build a database to be accessed via browser.  I want to 
>>be able to do all the work from home (on a Mac (OS 8.6)).  I don't 
>>want to spend any money.  Is it possible?  How do I go about it?
>>Thanks....
>
>You want to develop on the Mac or host on the Mac or both?
>
>The implications are totally different depending on what you need to 
>have happen.

+1 to everything Bob said.

William -- would you be prepared to install either yellow dog linux 
(http://yellowdoglinux.com), linux ppc (http://linuxppc.org/), or Mac 
OS X (http://www.apple.com/macosx/)? The first two are 'free' 
(inverted commas because they're free to download, but if you want 
the cds you'll have to lay out a small amount of money, like, say 
$10!), the last one is a lot more processor intensive, and will set 
you back considerably more. I can't check the cost of purchasing 
linuxppc on cd-rom at the moment because it seems their secure site 
is down... bummer.

You could create a very low cost linux hosting system on a Mac with 
any of those products. But, again, it depends what your ISP's hosting 
system is -- you'll want to setup something very similar to them. If 
you're targeting an NT ASP setup, then you'll have a hard time 
recreating a local server on a mac.

Either that or design on the mac and upload to protected directories 
on the server to test (kind-of-boring if you're on a dialup 
connection).
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
http://www.thepander.co.nz/



From mutes00 at home.com  Thu May 24 20:00:30 2001
From: mutes00 at home.com (Mutes)
Date: Thu May 24 20:00:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
References: <200105250042.f4P0g7815804@chmls06.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <002601c0e4b6$0ecd72e0$010a0a0a@vc.shawcable.net>

Apparently, my host supports "Frontpage 2000 Extensions" and it "comes
installed on your site and ready to be logged into." However, I have no clue
to what that is... Can anybody fill me in please?

Thanks in advance.




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu May 24 20:28:39 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Thu May 24 20:28:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFMail Failure on Linux. Quick Help?
In-Reply-To: <01May24.174100edt.117123@gateway.ced-concord.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAELHHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Cameron Childress [mailto:cameronc at mindspring.com]
:
: 3) [...] You could scedule an event
:    using such a tag to scrub the
:    linefeeds off the files after they
:    end up in the undelivr directory,
:    then copy them back into the spool
:    using CFFILE.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this gives me an idea.  if you can send them by writing the file into the
spool, then why not write them with the right format to begin with and put
them right into the spool?

doing this as a test, here's cfmail tag i used:

<cfmail to="jeff at alphashopcom"
        from="jeff at alphashop.com"
        subject="test message subject"
        server="alphashop.com">
test message body
</cfmail>

which resulted in the following output to the /cfusion/mail/spool directory
as a numbered file with a .cfmail extension (182.cfmail in this case):

x-cf-version: 4.5.0
x-cf-server: alphashop.com
x-cf-port: 25
x-cf-timeout: 60
x-cf-from: jeff at alphashop.com
x-cf-to: jeff at alphashopcom

Content-type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:43:29 -0700
From: jeff at alphashop.com
Subject: test message subject
To: jeff at alphashopcom


test message body

when it attempted to send the mail server threw an error.  cfserver wrote to
mail.log in /cfusion/log identifying the file in the spool it attempted to
send, the error returned by the mail server, and the new file name and
location of the original message (in this case 183.cfmail).  the original
file (182.cfmail) was purged from the /cfusion/mail/spool and an exact copy
of it was written to /cfusion/mail/undelivr with the new name (183.cfmail)
identified in the error entry in mail.log.

i don't see any reason why you couldn't write a custom tag that would act
like cfmail with the exception of putting in proper carriage returns at the
end of each line as well as writing the associated headers to a file in
/cfusion/mail/spool where it would be picked up by sendmail and dealt with.
one of the harder parts would be the naming scheme for the files being
written to /cfusion/mail/spool to make sure that anything written into the
directory was unique for the duration it will be in the /cfusion/mail/spool
directory.

just some ideas,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From framar at interlog.com  Thu May 24 23:04:31 2001
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu May 24 23:04:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] CFMail Failure on Linux. Quick Help?
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAELHHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAELHHKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <p05001900b73389df182d@[24.43.66.191]>

What I've done was to set the email body to a variable, then replace 
the line feeds with carriage returns using their chr() values. Then 
placing the variable between the start and end cfmail tag with 
nothing in between. It worked. my admin section now has a mail-sent 
log. Now I just gotta figure out why it's not reaching me.
-- 

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Frank Marion                      Loofah Communications
frank at loofahcom.com               http://www.loofahcom.com



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 00:33:10 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 00:33:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] .shtml vs. .html (how to make .html + includes
  work with ssi)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010524194804.00a04ad0@pop.ulster.net>
References: <025801c0e4a8$b3b3af30$6900000a@tendocom.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010524223322.02af4c68@baratta.com>

At 04:50 PM 5/24/2001, you wrote:
>At Thursday 5/24/01 07:24 PM, matt newell wrote:
>
>>To work around this problem, make a .htaccess file in your root directory,
>>add only this to the first line:
>>  AddType text/x-server-parsed-html .html
>>
>>That's it, and that will make the server scour all html pages looking for
>>SSI commands. Although, this won't work with everything as some CGI's get
>>messed up, but 80% works fine.
>
>Matt,
>
>What does this mean? Are you saying that doing this, 4 out 5 'exec cgi='s 
>will fail through no fault of the developer? Or do I misunderstand you?


The above should not impact CGI files.

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 00:33:50 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 00:33:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
In-Reply-To: <002601c0e4b6$0ecd72e0$010a0a0a@vc.shawcable.net>
References: <200105250042.f4P0g7815804@chmls06.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010524223353.02af1e20@baratta.com>

At 06:00 PM 5/24/2001, you wrote:
>Apparently, my host supports "Frontpage 2000 Extensions" and it "comes
>installed on your site and ready to be logged into." However, I have no clue
>to what that is... Can anybody fill me in please?

Unless you are developing a site with FrontPage 2000. Ignore it.

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From patra at poboxes.com  Fri May 25 00:38:35 2001
From: patra at poboxes.com (Ritwik Patra)
Date: Fri May 25 00:38:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
Message-ID: <200105250541.LAA03970@mother.deepalaya.org>

I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks on the "Contact Us" link...It will open a separate smaller 
browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  will show thanks message alongwith a link to "close the 
window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . We  do not want to use any java script.  Can anybody help 
please....

Ritwik Patra





From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Fri May 25 00:44:16 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Fri May 25 00:44:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
References: <000b01c0e492$c69e5fc0$0100a8c0@minotaur>
Message-ID: <000a01c0e4de$1fe444a0$ca9b043e@r3g4p8>

Why not try flash? It could do this and more I guess. Theplugin is small
enough to be somewhat usable...

Philippe

> Now my key concern is that although this will effectively be on a web
site,
> I would like it to behave more like an application (even if it takes some
> time to load) as you would expect on your desktop.  I can achieve most of
> the above by using layers, and timelines (in dreamweaver) that work with
IE
> 4.x and 5.x, but nothing that works with NS 4.x





From navindhanuka at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 01:24:21 2001
From: navindhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Fri May 25 01:24:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
In-Reply-To: <200105250541.LAA03970@mother.deepalaya.org>
Message-ID: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPGEDACBAA.navindhanuka@yahoo.com>

Why don't you use CGI.?

Navin Dhanuka,
NetInfoTech.net



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ritwik Patra
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 11:17 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail


I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks on the
"Contact Us" link...It will open a separate smaller
browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  will show thanks
message alongwith a link to "close the
window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . We  do not want
to use any java script.  Can anybody help
please....

Ritwik Patra



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Fri May 25 01:37:16 2001
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Fri May 25 01:37:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E965@SBS>

Hi Ritwik,

there are two distinct parts to the solution you are looking for. The first
part is the "pop-up" window. This requires a client-side script to function,
which in practise means accepting the use of a little JavaScript.
Alternatively, you could open a normal browser window using target="_blank",
but then you cannot create a link to "close the window", as this also
requires client-side scripting (i.e. JavaScript). The scripting required to
do this though is extremely simple and is supported on the vast majority of
browsers.

The second part is the mail form. Here you can certainly avoid JavaScript.
Creating a mailform in PHP is pretty straightforward and you'll find a whole
bunch of usaeable scripts to choose from at various PHP sites such as

http://www.phpbuilder.com/
or
http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/


Good luck!

.steve


----------------------------------
   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
 Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
 Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
----------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ritwik Patra [mailto:patra at poboxes.com]
> Sent: den 25 maj 2001 07:47
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
> 
> 
> I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks 
> on the "Contact Us" link...It will open a separate smaller 
> browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  
> will show thanks message alongwith a link to "close the 
> window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . 
> We  do not want to use any java script.  Can anybody help 
> please....
> 
> Ritwik Patra
> 
> 
> 



From patra at poboxes.com  Fri May 25 01:53:41 2001
From: patra at poboxes.com (Ritwik Patra)
Date: Fri May 25 01:53:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
Message-ID: <200105250658.MAA04057@mother.deepalaya.org>

Dear Steve,

Thanks for such an immediate response.

Yes! We can manage with the PHP script. I was wondering whether the "pop up"  thing and "close window" can be 
used without java script. Since you said no...where do I find the script for this purpose? Another question....can there 
be alternative ...Like if some has disabled java script ..Then he/she is provided with a simple format...I hope I am able 
to explain my requirement. Please do mention about the required java script....

Thanks and regards.

Ritwik Patra

5/25/01 12:11:34 PM, Steve Cook <steve.cook at evitbe.com> wrote:

>Hi Ritwik,
>
>there are two distinct parts to the solution you are looking for. The first
>part is the "pop-up" window. This requires a client-side script to function,
>which in practise means accepting the use of a little JavaScript.
>Alternatively, you could open a normal browser window using target="_blank",
>but then you cannot create a link to "close the window", as this also
>requires client-side scripting (i.e. JavaScript). The scripting required to
>do this though is extremely simple and is supported on the vast majority of
>browsers.
>
>The second part is the mail form. Here you can certainly avoid JavaScript.
>Creating a mailform in PHP is pretty straightforward and you'll find a whole
>bunch of usaeable scripts to choose from at various PHP sites such as
>
>http://www.phpbuilder.com/
>or
>http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/
>
>
>Good luck!
>
>.steve
>
>
>----------------------------------
>   WapWarp - http://wapwarp.com
> Wap-Dev - http://www.wap-dev.net
> Cookstour - http://cookstour.org
>----------------------------------
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ritwik Patra [mailto:patra at poboxes.com]
>> Sent: den 25 maj 2001 07:47
>> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>> Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
>> 
>> 
>> I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks 
>> on the "Contact Us" link...It will open a separate smaller 
>> browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  
>> will show thanks message alongwith a link to "close the 
>> window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . 
>> We  do not want to use any java script.  Can anybody help 
>> please....
>> 
>> Ritwik Patra
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>
>






From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 01:59:16 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 01:59:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
References: <200105250541.LAA03970@mother.deepalaya.org>
Message-ID: <3B0E0362.BBE4612B@dowebs.com>

Ritwik Patra wrote:
> 
> I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks on the "Contact Us" link...It will open a separate smaller
> browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  will show thanks message alongwith a link to "close the
> window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . We  do not want to use any java script.  Can anybody help
> please....

If you refuse to use javascript you can forget having a "separate
smaller browser window", that's how they are created. Unless you want to
create a ModalDialog window using Microsoft's proprietary VBScript
language that only IE4+ will understand.

Perhaps you mean that you don't want Java, which is not Javascript, two
totally different creatures....

If:
1) you will accept javascript to open "a separate smaller window with a
form"
2) you can run Perl on your server and your server has "sendmail"
installed 
3) all emails sent through this window will go only to your email
address

then email me offlist. I have 5 or 6 of those kind of scripts laying
around here and I'll just send you one to use. It's easier to just send
you a working emailer than it is to explain it, actually it's the
easiest way to explain it. (But it will run on Perl, not PHP, I don't do
Perl-Handicapped-Programming)

keith



From tech at az-ink.com.mt  Fri May 25 02:11:31 2001
From: tech at az-ink.com.mt (Joseph A Borg)
Date: Fri May 25 02:11:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E965@SBS>
Message-ID: <B733D255.99C2%tech@az-ink.com.mt>

on 25/05/01 8:41 AM, Steve Cook at steve.cook at evitbe.com wrote:

> The first
> part is the "pop-up" window. This requires a client-side script to function,
> which in practise means accepting the use of a little JavaScript.

excuse me, I might be saying something silly... but using
target="new-window-name" in the <a> tag forces the browser to open a new
window with that name- right? Is this javascript? Is it compatible with v2
browsers?

joe




From catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk  Fri May 25 02:12:11 2001
From: catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk (Dave Hinton)
Date: Fri May 25 02:12:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <3B0D1D83.17283.91C8D03@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0E0644.FE2DD73B@pat.mkn.co.uk>


deke wrote:

> Can you name *any* circumstance in which the illegal "pragma"
> header works and these headers don't?
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT">
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">

I've never noticed browsers paying any attention to Expires.  Browsers
seem to either use If-Modified-Since, or assume that since they
downloaded it five minutes ago, it must still be valid.

Cache-Control is a HTTP 1.1 thing.  No way will it work with older
browsers.

Otoh, Pragma: no-cache always seemed to work with older browsers, when
older browsers was all we had.  Whether it works with newer browsers, I
don't know.

-- 
  //  Dave Hinton
=()=  Web Developer, MarketNet
//    London 7691 8968



From patra at poboxes.com  Fri May 25 02:18:36 2001
From: patra at poboxes.com (Ritwik Patra)
Date: Fri May 25 02:18:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
Message-ID: <200105250725.MAA04105@mother.deepalaya.org>

Dear Keith,

Thanks for your reply!

Yes...I meant Java Script only. Now I understand that without Java Script it's not possible to open a smaller pop up 
window. I do not want to use Perl. We are trying to use PHP (Parmanent Helpful Programme) in all our pages.

Thanks and regards.

Ritwik Patra

5/25/01 12:31:54 PM, Keith Davis <cache at dowebs.com> wrote:

>Ritwik Patra wrote:
>> 
>> I am looking for a PHP script through which if someone clicks on the "Contact Us" link...It will open a separate 
smaller
>> browser window with a form. When filled up..the sme window  will show thanks message alongwith a link to "close 
the
>> window". I want to use this for our site www.deepalaya.org . We  do not want to use any java script.  Can anybody 
help
>> please....
>
>If you refuse to use javascript you can forget having a "separate
>smaller browser window", that's how they are created. Unless you want to
>create a ModalDialog window using Microsoft's proprietary VBScript
>language that only IE4+ will understand.
>
>Perhaps you mean that you don't want Java, which is not Javascript, two
>totally different creatures....
>
>If:
>1) you will accept javascript to open "a separate smaller window with a
>form"
>2) you can run Perl on your server and your server has "sendmail"
>installed 
>3) all emails sent through this window will go only to your email
>address
>
>then email me offlist. I have 5 or 6 of those kind of scripts laying
>around here and I'll just send you one to use. It's easier to just send
>you a working emailer than it is to explain it, actually it's the
>easiest way to explain it. (But it will run on Perl, not PHP, I don't do
>Perl-Handicapped-Programming)
>
>keith
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>
>






From alligotar at gmx.net  Fri May 25 02:23:01 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Fri May 25 02:23:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>
Message-ID: <3B0E0880.3E552B12@gmx.net>

Morn':

> in my .htaccess in the travel directory
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm unfamiliar with mod_rewrite, but shouldn't be the .htaccess ideally
be kept in the root directory of domain?

Jakob D?lling

-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From m at pleonasm.com  Fri May 25 02:28:01 2001
From: m at pleonasm.com (Matt)
Date: Fri May 25 02:28:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
In-Reply-To: <B733D255.99C2%tech@az-ink.com.mt>
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5205E965@SBS>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010525092606.0079a550@pleonasm.com>

Joseph A Borg <tech at az-ink.com.mt> wrote:
>
>but using target="new-window-name" in the <a> tag forces the browser
>to open a new window with that name- right? Is this javascript?

No, it's HTML. It's really a hangover from frames, where you could name
frames in your frameset, and then open documents within certain frames with
<a href="foo.html" target="frame_name">. But it works for (non-frames)
windows too. You can give the target window any name you want to open a new
window with that name; you can then reuse the name later, if you like, to
open a different document in that same, already-open window. Or you can use
the reserved window name "_blank" to force a new window every time.

>Is it compatible with v2 browsers?

That I could not tell you. I guess you'll have to try it and see.

Matt




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 02:29:11 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 02:29:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
In-Reply-To: <3B0E0880.3E552B12@gmx.net>
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525002649.02a4fe28@baratta.com>

At 12:23 AM 5/25/2001, you wrote:
>Morn':
>
> > in my .htaccess in the travel directory
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'm unfamiliar with mod_rewrite, but shouldn't be the .htaccess ideally
>be kept in the root directory of domain?

.htaccess can be used anywhere you need to modify Apache's behaviour. It 
also affects child directories. Having it in the web root will affect ALL 
directories of the site, and I don't think that is want he wants with his 
current solution.

I use several .htaccess files thoughout my sites to modify Apache for 
different reasons and stuff them into their target directories because I 
don't want that behaviour site wide. One such behaviour is File Indexing, 
which I definitely don't want site wide. ;-)
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From jonathan at familygenetix.com  Fri May 25 04:11:33 2001
From: jonathan at familygenetix.com (Jonathan Chard)
Date: Fri May 25 04:11:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
In-Reply-To: <20010524180840.95621.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBJJKGILJLNLJJBGMPKEAHDFAA.jonathan@familygenetix.com>

>heh, it's Dan Steinman's detect and is probably a few
>years out of date. No mention of IE5 in the tutorial.
>The copyright is 1998, so I don't think he's updating
>it. But it's still great for the basics.

FWIW, thought you might be interested to know that the Dynamic API isn't
dead, it's just evolved. It's now an opensource project on
http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/dynapi/, with associated tutorials, widgets
under development, etc.

You can also check out some sample sites at
http://www.richardinfo.f2s.com/dynapi/php/examples.html
(<http://www.richardinfo.f2s.com/dynapi/Bob_Basques_&_Toby_Folwick_Examples/
Map_with_scrollbox_Modem.htm> is one of my favourites...)
http://www.cantir.com/dynapi/
http://www.dynamic-core.net/
http://www.scottandrew.com/dhtml/docs/

Hope this is of interest.
Jon Chard.




From jonathan at familygenetix.com  Fri May 25 04:50:27 2001
From: jonathan at familygenetix.com (Jonathan Chard)
Date: Fri May 25 04:50:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
In-Reply-To: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90024508FD@severin.cursci.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBJJKGILJLNLJJBGMPIEAIDFAA.jonathan@familygenetix.com>

Hi Kerin,

>A couple of parts of my XML file hold large chunks of text. When I view the
>XML file, I can see that the text (in CDATA[]) is nicely formatted with
>carriage returns. Obviously though, XSL strips out all extraneous
>whitespace, so I just end up with these *huge* blocks of text with no
>linebreaks.

>Now, I know how to get XSL to preserve whitespace, but thats no good - the
>text comes through still formatted, but obviously newline characters mean
>nothing to HTML - what I need to do is convert the newlines to <br>s, or
><p>s, or whatever.

>So, how can I do this with XSL? Convert newlines to <br> tags for the
output
>tree? This is driving me nuts!

Guess noone knows! TBH I find the CDATA sections pretty confusing and try to
avoid
them.

You might want to check out http://www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl/cdata.html. This
seems to suggest that the CDATA section is not parsed at all, which means
that
it's not possible to do what you want. I think that you should only use a
CDATA
section when you've got a lot of text that you don't want to escape, is this
true in
your case?

My only suggestion is that you parse your blocks of text *before* they get
stuck in your
database, so that when they're pulled out, they're already in the correct
format.

You could also consider not using a CDATA section at all and using the
<xsl:copy-of> tag
to put the content directly in your web page.

But I'm just reiterating the points already made in the above link. Sorry I
can't be of more help,
I'm only a beginner too... I think it's just nice to know sometimes that
people are listening (hence
my response). Just wish I had a single suggestion to help the guy a while
ago that had a question
about if statements in an a stylesheet...

Jon Chard.




From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Fri May 25 05:16:53 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Fri May 25 05:16:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
In-Reply-To: <B733D255.99C2%tech@az-ink.com.mt>
Message-ID: <20010525111031-r01010600-fffda254@10.0.0.15>

On 25/5/01 at 9:11 am, tech at az-ink.com.mt (Joseph A Borg) wrote:

> on 25/05/01 8:41 AM, Steve Cook at steve.cook at evitbe.com wrote:
> 
> > The first
> > part is the "pop-up" window. This requires a client-side script to function,
> > which in practise means accepting the use of a little JavaScript.
> 
> excuse me, I might be saying something silly... but using
> target="new-window-name" in the <a> tag forces the browser to open a new
> window with that name- right? Is this javascript? Is it compatible with v2
> browsers?

You're right, but the problem of opening a pop-up window is not just getting the
thing open. If you want *any* control over the dimensions and position of the
window then you have to use Javascript, because there's no way to control how
and where a window is opened with target="new_window". A pop-up window which is
full-screen doesn't really help anyone...

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'I could call this place Poohanpiglet Corner if Pooh Corner didn't 
sound better, which it does, being smaller and more like a corner.'



From alligotar at gmx.net  Fri May 25 05:27:07 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Fri May 25 05:27:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010525002649.02a4fe28@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <3B0E3396.BCD4F8A1@gmx.net>

Morn'
> > > in my .htaccess in the travel directory
> >                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >I'm unfamiliar with mod_rewrite, but shouldn't be the .htaccess ideally
> >be kept in the root directory of domain?
> 
> .htaccess can be used anywhere you need to modify Apache's behaviour. It
> also affects child directories. Having it in the web root will affect ALL
> directories of the site, and I don't think that is want he wants with his
> current solution.

You'll never learn out ;-) . My thought is, if he wants to have to
redirect his /travel-dir to that PHP-thingie, the rewrite-rules for that
dir need to be defined in his web root.

Jakob D?lling
-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From jillshaw at email.com  Fri May 25 06:17:57 2001
From: jillshaw at email.com (Jill Shaw)
Date: Fri May 25 06:17:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev Shopping Cart?
Message-ID: <384895808.990789510866.JavaMail.root@web168-ec.mail.com>

Just wondering if anyone could give me advice on whether the Shopping Cart
server behaviours extensions is really the right way to go for a particular
project (please bear in mind I'm new-ish to the whole ASP/UltraDev/database
world!).

I am working on a site to allow students to enrol for courses, check which
courses they've completed, take a test and complete a questionnaire for each
course they have completed. I want to use UltraDev and have already got all
the student details in a big SQL Server database with stored procedures.

Is the Shopping Cart adaptable enough to change it to fit these needs? Is it
worth me spending the time learning how to create a cart?

I'd really appreciate your views on this.
Thanks in advance,
Jill Shaw

Jill Shaw
Web Developer
Northern Ireland
-----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com





From nicole at parrot.ca  Fri May 25 06:40:12 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Fri May 25 06:40:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
References: <NDBBJJKGILJLNLJJBGMPIEAIDFAA.jonathan@familygenetix.com>
Message-ID: <00e301c0e50f$cc031c80$0100a8c0@mshome.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Chard" <jonathan at familygenetix.com>!
>
> Guess noone knows! TBH I find the CDATA sections pretty confusing and try
to
> avoid  them.

But we were all hoping for an answer..


> My only suggestion is that you parse your blocks of text *before* they get
> stuck in your
> database, so that when they're pulled out, they're already in the correct
> format.

But that's sort of goes against XML which is for data sharing. There
shouldn't be a need to assume your end result will be an HTML page. You
shouldn't have to assume anything at all about where your data will be
displayed.

> I'm only a beginner too... I think it's just nice to know sometimes that
> people are listening (hence
> my response).

I think everyone's a beginner with XML and XSL... And yes, I know, I don't
have anything constructive to offer, that's because I truly don't know the
answer. BTW, I cheat the same way as what you were mentionning. I do assume
HTML will be my end result, but I hate having to make that assumption.

Nicole




From jonathan at familygenetix.com  Fri May 25 07:04:58 2001
From: jonathan at familygenetix.com (Jonathan Chard)
Date: Fri May 25 07:04:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
In-Reply-To: <00e301c0e50f$cc031c80$0100a8c0@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBJJKGILJLNLJJBGMPAEALDFAA.jonathan@familygenetix.com>

>But that's sort of goes against XML which is for data sharing. There
>shouldn't be a need to assume your end result will be an HTML page. You
>shouldn't have to assume anything at all about where your data will be
>displayed.

You got me thinking there, you're right. For a moment I started along the
lines of
"but you know it's going to be a webpage because that's what you're doing"
but you
could be turning it into a pdf document or anything....

So perhaps the solution is, rather than sticking in <br>s or enclosing text
in <p>s,
which are both HTML specific, when you parse the block on the way in, you
wrap it
in your own tag, say put a <para></para> around it.

And then when you come to do the processing, let the stylesheet decide what
the format
is, i.e. if HTML wrap it in a <p>, if pdf.. er.. do something else.

<sigh> I dunno. I'm inclined to think sometimes, if it works in the way we
want it to work now, great.
We'll worry about it working in another way when we want it to work in
another way. (see
http://www.xprogramming.com/ )

JonC.

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Fri May 25 07:20:33 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Fri May 25 07:20:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
In-Reply-To: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90024508FD@severin.cursci.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010525131309-r01010600-503a5b50@10.0.0.15>

On 24/5/01 at 3:29 pm, Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford) wrote:

> A couple of parts of my XML file hold large chunks of text. When I view the
> XML file, I can see that the text (in CDATA[]) is nicely formatted with
> carriage returns. Obviously though, XSL strips out all extraneous
> whitespace, so I just end up with these *huge* blocks of text with no
> linebreaks.

If I may...

Why are you storing large chunks of continuous text so crudely?

<large chunk>all my continuous text</large chunk>

Why not store it properly structured, with the paragraphs (which I assume are
the things delimited by your carriage returns) in their own elements.

<large chunk><para>some of my continuous text</para><para>some more
text</para></large chunk>
 
> Now, I know how to get XSL to preserve whitespace, but thats no good - the
> text comes through still formatted, but obviously newline characters mean
> nothing to HTML - what I need to do is convert the newlines to <br>s, or
> <p>s, or whatever.

CDATA sections are for data which shouldn't be parsed...

You could replace the newlines with entities which parse to <br /> or something
like that and store your data as PCDATA, but that might complicate things
more...

Give me fine granularity or give me death! (or something...)

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   Piglet took Pooh's arm, in case Pooh was frightened.
   'Is it one of the Fiercer Animals?' he said, looking the other way.
   Pooh nodded. 
   'It's a Jagular,' he said.
   'What do Jagulars do?' asked Piglet, hoping that they wouldn't.



From ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk  Fri May 25 07:25:38 2001
From: ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk (Matt Patterson)
Date: Fri May 25 07:25:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJJKGILJLNLJJBGMPAEALDFAA.jonathan@familygenetix.com>
Message-ID: <20010525131549-r01010600-e75e3e84@10.0.0.15>

On 25/5/01 at 1:05 pm, jonathan at familygenetix.com (Jonathan Chard) wrote:

> You got me thinking there, you're right. For a moment I started along
> the lines of "but you know it's going to be a webpage because that's
> what you're doing" but you could be turning it into a pdf document or
> anything....
> 
> So perhaps the solution is, rather than sticking in <br>s or enclosing
> text in <p>s, which are both HTML specific, when you parse the block
> on the way in, you wrap it in your own tag, say put a <para></para>
> around it.

Whoops, you pre-empted my reply without me noticing... doh!

<p></p> isn't HTML specific - it's just a tag set... You could happily use
<p></p>, make your life easier in the conversion to HTML (though no easier than
using <para></para> admittedly) and still be able to transform for other uses...
XHTML is an XML application after all...

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Can they fly?' asked Roo.
   'Yes,' said Tigger, 'they're very good flyers, Tiggers are. 
Strornry good flyers.'
   'Oo!' said Roo. 'Can they fly as well as Owl?'
   'Yes,' said Tigger. 'Only they don't want to.'



From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 08:09:18 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 08:09:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web based applications
Message-ID: <85256A57.00482D95.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


How about Java Applets?  These are applications that can range from simple to
very robust.  Both Netscape and IE support JDK 1.1.8, so you have to develop in
that environment.  No coding in Java 2 (which is actually JDK 1.2).  But, with
Applets you can do graphs, animations, etc.  Java can talk over TCP/IP so you
could have the Applet grab data from your back-end environment.
Here's an example:
http://whyslopes.com/freeAccess/applet.html

HTH
-Ron S.






Kristina Floyd <kristina at kfx-design.co.uk> on 05/24/2001 05:49:39 PM

Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

To:   Nick Myers <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:    (bcc: Ron Senykoff/BEA)

Subject:  Re: [thelist] Web based applications



Nick,

  Have you considered Flash?  (Though I note you have said without
  those tools, Flash wasn't listed)  Especially if download isn't a
  problem?

--
hth
 :-]k[-:

Thursday, May 24, 2001, 9:47:40 PM, you wrote:

NM> Wonder if I could ask you guys to delve into your wealth of varied
NM> experience?

NM> My company is about to task me with building web based applications (using
NM> nice NS&IE 4.x compliant code - np) that will display lots of analysis
NM> data/graphs and location maps all within a confined environment.  Now they
NM> already have a desktop application that does this, but they want a web
NM> version that they can sell subscriptions to.  My question is this: do you
NM> guys have any examples of web based applications, such as finance, weather,
NM> sports results etc. that's might involve any of the following:

NM> - A map with points drawn on it, where a user mouses over a given point, and
NM> a pop-up (attached to the cursor) appears with some live data in it.
NM> - A map with transparent overlays that can be switched on/off showing
NM> various transparencies.
NM> - Same as above, but with animation controls to animate (step) through
NM> individually rendered graphics [JPEGS] (without having to use a server-side
NM> program to render all the images into one animation).
NM> - A clickable location map, where a list of available data appears once a
NM> location is clicked, and from there the option to interrogate the data and
NM> return data either in tabular or graph format.
NM> - Graphing with threshold setting/changing ability.

NM> Now my key concern is that although this will effectively be on a web site,
NM> I would like it to behave more like an application (even if it takes some
NM> time to load) as you would expect on your desktop.  I can achieve most of
NM> the above by using layers, and timelines (in dreamweaver) that work with IE
NM> 4.x and 5.x, but nothing that works with NS 4.x

NM> I've looked at ArcView and GIS, which seem ideal, but I'm being asked to do
NM> something WITHOUT those tools for now.

NM> I sincerely appreciate any input offered.

NM> Thanks

NM> Nick


NM> ---------------------------------------
NM> For unsubscribe and other options, including
NM> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
NM> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !









From john_meyer at geocities.com  Fri May 25 08:48:13 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Fri May 25 08:48:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] UltraDev Shopping Cart?
In-Reply-To: <384895808.990789510866.JavaMail.root@web168-ec.mail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010525074448.00a59540@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

You'd have to describe this in more detail.  The shopping cart probably 
would be right for enrolling for courses, as they can enroll for multiple 
courses before they commit it to the database.  However, I wouldn't use the 
shopping cart for any sort of information that has to persist, primarily 
because you have SQL Server.

At 07:18 AM 5/25/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Just wondering if anyone could give me advice on whether the Shopping Cart
>server behaviours extensions is really the right way to go for a particular
>project (please bear in mind I'm new-ish to the whole ASP/UltraDev/database
>world!).
>
>I am working on a site to allow students to enrol for courses, check which
>courses they've completed, take a test and complete a questionnaire for each
>course they have completed. I want to use UltraDev and have already got all
>the student details in a big SQL Server database with stored procedures.
>
>Is the Shopping Cart adaptable enough to change it to fit these needs? Is it
>worth me spending the time learning how to create a cart?
>
>I'd really appreciate your views on this.
>Thanks in advance,
>Jill Shaw
>
>Jill Shaw
>Web Developer
>Northern Ireland
>-----------------------------------------------
>FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
>Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Fri May 25 08:52:03 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Fri May 25 08:52:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E9002450947@severin.cursci.co.uk>

well, for everyone who's interested, a friendly XSL uber-guru sent me the
following code whihc solves my problem perfectly:

<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
       version='1.0'>
    <xsl:output method="html" indent="yes"/>

	<xsl:variable name="cr" select="'&#xA;'"/>

	<xsl:template match="test">
		<xsl:call-template name="grabaline">
			<xsl:with-param name="block" select="."/>
		</xsl:call-template>

		<xsl:apply-templates/>
	</xsl:template>

	<xsl:template match="text()|@*">
	</xsl:template>

	<xsl:template name="grabaline">
		<xsl:param name="block"/>

		<xsl:if test="$block">
			<xsl:value-of select="substring-before($block, 
$cr)"/>
			<br/><xsl:text>&#xA;</xsl:text>
			<xsl:call-template name="grabaline">
				<xsl:with-param name="block" 
select="substring-after($block, $cr)"/>
			</xsl:call-template>
		</xsl:if>
	</xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Patterson [mailto:ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk]
Sent: 25 May 2001 13:16
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question


On 25/5/01 at 1:05 pm, jonathan at familygenetix.com (Jonathan Chard) wrote:

> You got me thinking there, you're right. For a moment I started along
> the lines of "but you know it's going to be a webpage because that's
> what you're doing" but you could be turning it into a pdf document or
> anything....
> 
> So perhaps the solution is, rather than sticking in <br>s or enclosing
> text in <p>s, which are both HTML specific, when you parse the block
> on the way in, you wrap it in your own tag, say put a <para></para>
> around it.

Whoops, you pre-empted my reply without me noticing... doh!

<p></p> isn't HTML specific - it's just a tag set... You could happily use
<p></p>, make your life easier in the conversion to HTML (though no easier
than
using <para></para> admittedly) and still be able to transform for other
uses...
XHTML is an XML application after all...

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   'Can they fly?' asked Roo.
   'Yes,' said Tigger, 'they're very good flyers, Tiggers are. 
Strornry good flyers.'
   'Oo!' said Roo. 'Can they fly as well as Owl?'
   'Yes,' said Tigger. 'Only they don't want to.'

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Fri May 25 08:53:23 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Fri May 25 08:53:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E9002450948@severin.cursci.co.uk>

Yes, the data isn't held in the most intelligent format possible - all
future data will be however.

I'm working with large amounts of legacy data, several gigabytes (an
exhaustive databse of chemical data on pharmaceuticals), so changing the
source data format isnt an option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Patterson [mailto:ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk]
Sent: 25 May 2001 13:13
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] XML > XSL > HTML question


On 24/5/01 at 3:29 pm, Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
wrote:

> A couple of parts of my XML file hold large chunks of text. When I view
the
> XML file, I can see that the text (in CDATA[]) is nicely formatted with
> carriage returns. Obviously though, XSL strips out all extraneous
> whitespace, so I just end up with these *huge* blocks of text with no
> linebreaks.

If I may...

Why are you storing large chunks of continuous text so crudely?

<large chunk>all my continuous text</large chunk>

Why not store it properly structured, with the paragraphs (which I assume
are
the things delimited by your carriage returns) in their own elements.

<large chunk><para>some of my continuous text</para><para>some more
text</para></large chunk>
 
> Now, I know how to get XSL to preserve whitespace, but thats no good - the
> text comes through still formatted, but obviously newline characters mean
> nothing to HTML - what I need to do is convert the newlines to <br>s, or
> <p>s, or whatever.

CDATA sections are for data which shouldn't be parsed...

You could replace the newlines with entities which parse to <br /> or
something
like that and store your data as PCDATA, but that might complicate things
more...

Give me fine granularity or give me death! (or something...)

Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Patterson:
   Student
   Reading University
   Department of Typography & Graphic Communication

   ltu97mp at reading.ac.uk
   
   http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ltu97mp/

   Piglet took Pooh's arm, in case Pooh was frightened.
   'Is it one of the Fiercer Animals?' he said, looking the other way.
   Pooh nodded. 
   'It's a Jagular,' he said.
   'What do Jagulars do?' asked Piglet, hoping that they wouldn't.

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri May 25 09:05:14 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri May 25 09:05:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D8FD5.48A63504@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <3B0E2644.8407.D26E8D6@localhost>

On 24 May 2001, at 16:48, Keith Davis posted a message which said:

> > Can you name *any* circumstance in which the illegal "pragma"
> > header works and these headers don't?
> > <META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT">
> > <META HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">
 
> Yeah. I can't see how you would use a meta tag to tell the browser to
> keep a certain image, or an external javascript, or an embedded cgi
> response out of the cache while caching the rest of the page. But,
> sending the Pragma: no-cache header along with those page components
> will do the trick. 

Tell me how you use ANY meta tag to prevent the caching
of only one component of the page! 

Use of REAL headers is much better for *any* caching directives. 
A big portion of the internet resides behind the AOL caching 
firewall, and it does NOT read HTML, so HTTP-EQUIV meta tags 
do not affect it. I presume without any evidence that other caching 
firewalls *may* exhibit similar behavior.

If you are REAL headers, you can use Expires:, which originated 
with HTTP/0.9 and the Cache-Control: header of HTTP/1.1, instead 
of the Pragma header, which has *never* been legal in that context.

There is a problem with the Expires: header in that *some* snippy
implementations demand that you follow the specification. How
odd, that software should treat garbage data as garbage data!  
Saying content=0 or content=-1 ain't legal. Neither is saying
"Fri, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT" when that date was a Thursday.

> You can run across Pragma: no-cache occasionally in CPAN modules and
> from what I've read it has been used by Perl programmers for years as
> the preferred method of keeping content and/or full pages out of the
> cache. (Maybe that's because we're always looking for the least verbose
> way to do something.)

It *is* supposed to keep content and/or full pages out of the SERVER
cache.

> The way I understand it, the browser starts to read a page from cache,
> discovers it has expired, requests (via pragma?) the lastModifiedDate
> and/or fileSize from the server, and then may continue to display the
> page from its cache if no change has been made in the interval. 

To get the LastModifiedDate, you do a HEAD request of the server.

> Delivering dynamic components to realestate on static web pages is
> becoming a very large industry. Managing what gets cached in the mix is
> a problem in this area that has many solutions, each with many
> proponents. Can you offer a URL that points to the standard you quote??

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1945.txt covers the HTTP/1.0 standard and
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt covers the HTTP/1.1 standard

> Or better, what kind of data is exchanged in a pragma request/response?

The Pragma general-header field is used to include implementation-
specific directives that may apply to any recipient along the
request/response chain. All pragma directives specify optional
behavior from the viewpoint of the protocol; however, some systems
may require that behavior be consistent with the directives.

    Pragma           = "Pragma" ":" 1#pragma-directive
    pragma-directive = "no-cache" | extension-pragma
    extension-pragma = token [ "=" word ]

When the "no-cache" directive is present in a request message, an
application should forward the request toward the origin server even
if it has a cached copy of what is being requested. This allows a
client to insist upon receiving an authoritative response to its
request. It also allows a client to refresh a cached copy which is
known to be corrupted or stale.

Pragma directives must be passed through by a proxy or gateway
application, regardless of their significance to that application,
since the directives may be applicable to all recipients along the
request/response chain. It is not possible to specify a pragma for a
specific recipient; however, any pragma directive not relevant to a
recipient should be ignored by that recipient.

 

------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From charliel at infohwy.com  Fri May 25 09:14:48 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Fri May 25 09:14:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010525002649.02a4fe28@baratta.com> <3B0E3396.BCD4F8A1@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <001501c0e535$9ba23460$6e202fc0@emmis.com>

No, Anthony is correct, mod_rewrite directives can be anywhere..

It is working, just not the way I want.

Specifically, I can't get mod_rewrite to process a query string in the
original URL... it just seems to be ignored.

If I change /travel/pages/cities.php?city=houston to
/travel/pages/cities.php/city=houston then I can get it to do what I want,
but I'd rather not have to change existing links on the site.

Charlie





From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Fri May 25 09:39:18 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Fri May 25 09:39:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] MouseOver Table Cells
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E11040F@usnapsmail.asg.com>

I am mousing over table cells and changing the colors like this in ASP:

Response.Write ("<tr><td style='border-bottom:1px groove gray;cursor:hand'
onMouseOver=""this.style.backgroundColor='#ffffdd'""
onMouseOut=""this.style.backgroundColor=''""><b>" & objItem &
"</b></td><td>" & Request.QueryString(objItem) & "</td></tr>")


However, instead of hardcoding these colors in like I have above, I would
like to specify these colors in a CSS file, but I am having a hard time
finding the equivalent way to do it there.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Don M



From peter at vardus.com  Fri May 25 10:09:54 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri May 25 10:09:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] testing scripts
In-Reply-To: <001722812031351BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010525155232.02673ec0@mail.vardus.net>

Hi,
I am trying to find some free (ish) software that can help me to test 
sites. I want to be able to write scripts that go to the site, fill in 
forms, (including accept cookies) and so on.
Any ideas? I'm testing out microsoft's free load testing software, I'll see 
if it can be used for this...
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Fri May 25 10:19:59 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Fri May 25 10:19:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] MouseOver Table Cells
In-Reply-To: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E11040F@usnapsmail.asg.com>
Message-ID: <B733C677.3D00%jcrawford@avencom.com>

on 5/25/2001 7:40 AM, Don Makoviney at DonM at allensysgroup.com wrote:

> I am mousing over table cells and changing the colors like this in ASP:
> 
> Response.Write ("<tr><td style='border-bottom:1px groove gray;cursor:hand'
> onMouseOver=""this.style.backgroundColor='#ffffdd'""
> onMouseOut=""this.style.backgroundColor=''""><b>" & objItem &
> "</b></td><td>" & Request.QueryString(objItem) & "</td></tr>")
> 
> 
> However, instead of hardcoding these colors in like I have above, I would
> like to specify these colors in a CSS file, but I am having a hard time
> finding the equivalent way to do it there.

You can call this.style.className - then have the class name in your CSS
which the page access (could be on the page, could be in a linked
stylesheet).

<td
    onmouseover="this.className='yellowThing';"
    onmouseout="this.className='whiteThing';">hello</td>

So you need whiteThing and yellowThing classes:

<style type="text/css">
<!--
.yellowThing {
background: #FF9;
}
.whiteThing {
background: #FFF;
}
//-->
</style>

I have something similar here:
http://www.artlung.com/temp/tr-onmouseover-style.html

But I really need to move it to http://www.artlung.com/lab/ somewhere.

HTH,
    Joe
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher





From mrogers at ocis.net  Fri May 25 10:30:39 2001
From: mrogers at ocis.net (Mark Rogers)
Date: Fri May 25 10:30:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
Message-ID: <B733C8CF.3185%mrogers@ocis.net>

Judging by the replies, I wasn't clear in earlier message.

I want to copy text from a word processor that looks like this:

Yadda (return)
(return)
Yadda (return)
(return)
Yadda (return)
(return)

And paste it into Dreamweaver 3. When I do, it looks like this:

<P>
Yadda <BR>
Yadda <BR>
Yadda 
</P>

But I want it to look like this:

<P> Yadda </P>
<P> Yadda </P>
<P> Yadda </P>

Sorry if I'm asking something obvious. It's just got me stumped. Thanks for
any help.

Mark Rogers




From chris at completeimaging.com  Fri May 25 10:34:19 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri May 25 10:34:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDIEHACDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Hello,

Here is my problem. I am designing a site that will involve people to login.
Instead of creating a separate login page I have decided to do it as a pop
browser window. Currently I am working on the JavaScript for this little
trick. I have the window popping up with two links in it. What I want to
have happen is when the person picks one of the two links, the little window
closes and the section that they have selected to go to appears in the main
window. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to do this. Help please.

Here is a slightly harder question that will come into question in the
second part of this little project. If I were to have the people enter their
login id and password in a JavaScript alert is there anyway of passing the
values to a ColdFusion script?

Thanks in advanced,

Chris
--------------
www.edigitaldesign.com
Taking Your Business to the Web

[Web Design] [ColdFusion] [Database Applications] [Hosting]





From peter at vardus.com  Fri May 25 10:39:29 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri May 25 10:39:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
In-Reply-To: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010525162210.00b6d940@mail.vardus.net>

Somewhat hacky, but you could get the REQUEST_URI in de code in page.php, 
and parse everything after the ? out, and then there's a function to parse 
that in PHP. parse_querystring() or something.
I said it, somewhat hacky.
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 10:39:54 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 10:39:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DF7@gate.ti3.com>

> And paste it into Dreamweaver 3. When I do, it looks like this:
> 
> <P>
> Yadda <BR>
> Yadda <BR>
> Yadda 
> </P>
> 
> But I want it to look like this:
> 
> <P> Yadda </P>
> <P> Yadda </P>
> <P> Yadda </P>
> 

You're working with a text file, myman, so git outta DW3 and into something
you can fire up a global search and replace with a regular expression (DW3
does it, but I don't remember if it does regular expressions). --Check out
TextPad (http://www.textpad.com/) for one option (read up on the help for
regular expressions, its pretty straightforward).

Hope that helps you get thinking
sgd



From eric at ohmforce.com  Fri May 25 10:40:29 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Fri May 25 10:40:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDIEHACDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <014701c0e530$5b3d2a60$9701a8c0@fr>

Hi Chris,
For your first question
Check out http://www.ohmforce.com/ (I know I am shameless :)
The MyOhmForce link in the menubar is exactly what you are looking for.
Feel free to rip the JavaScript out of it.

Cheers,
    Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Johnston <chris at completeimaging.com>

> browser window. Currently I am working on the JavaScript for this little
> trick. I have the window popping up with two links in it. What I want to
> have happen is when the person picks one of the two links, the little
window
> closes and the section that they have selected to go to appears in the
main
> window. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to do this. Help please.





From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Fri May 25 10:45:59 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri May 25 10:45:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
In-Reply-To: <002601c0e4b6$0ecd72e0$010a0a0a@vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <ALEKICGEBAJFFOKKPDNGAEKPCAAA.bheerssen@visualbridge.tv>

FP extensions allow the MS FrontPage editor to communicate with an IIS web
server. They allow directory level authentications for the purpose of
uploading new content. They also seem to do other things like make backups
automatically.

FrontPage is generally considered a newbie's editor.

 From http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/languages/fp/2000/RPC.asp:

"The FrontPage server extensions are a set of programs on a Web server that
support administering, authoring, and browsing a FrontPage Web site.

A client application [read: FrontPage 2000] communicates with the FrontPage
server extensions using the FrontPage server extensions' Client/Server
Protocol, also called the remote procedure call (RPC) protocol. This
protocol governs the exchange of information between a client and the server
extensions. This communications protocol is layered on top of the same HTTP
protocol that Web browsers use to interact with a Web server."

In my opinion, you're probably better off just sticking with ftp.

HTH
- Bruce
>
>
> Apparently, my host supports "Frontpage 2000 Extensions" and it "comes
> installed on your site and ready to be logged into." However, I
> have no clue
> to what that is... Can anybody fill me in please?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 10:50:14 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 10:50:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DFA@gate.ti3.com>

> FP extensions allow the MS FrontPage editor to communicate 
> with an IIS web
> server. They allow directory level authentications for the purpose of
> uploading new content. They also seem to do other things like 
> make backups
> automatically.
> 
> FrontPage is generally considered a newbie's editor.
> 

Just to add fluff here, InterDev uses the FP extensions to upload/manage
content as well. (and InterDev ain't no novice editor)

das all
sgd



From chris at completeimaging.com  Fri May 25 10:55:34 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri May 25 10:55:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <014701c0e530$5b3d2a60$9701a8c0@fr>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDAEHCCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Thanks,

But I can't actually find any JavaScript that closes the little window and
targets the new link to the main window. Plus, I don't read French, so it is
rather hard to follow the comments in your code.

anybody else?

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hi Chris,
> For your first question
> Check out http://www.ohmforce.com/ (I know I am shameless :)
> The MyOhmForce link in the menubar is exactly what you are looking for.
> Feel free to rip the JavaScript out of it.
>
> Cheers,
>     Eric
>




From joshua at alphashop.net  Fri May 25 10:57:04 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Fri May 25 10:57:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DFA@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <02e101c0e533$b9b53fd0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Just to add even more flush, ColdFusion studio uses a similar technology,
RDS, for file management.  It's uses HTTP to handle files and directory.
It's not a perfect implementation by far, but it is workable.

I found an FTP client that I like very much, and have been using it a few
days.  It's called Internet Neighborhood from deerfield.

http://in.deerfield.com

I'm very happy with it's speed so far.  It sticks itself into Windows
Explorer and I haven't seen it lock-up or fail yet.  The only odd thing I've
seen it on one particular FTP connection, the folders are not behaving as
folders, but as screwy files.  But, since it is only on particular site, I
think it's an anomaly in the FTP server.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dexter" <sgd at ti3.com>
Subject: RE: [thelist] FP Question


: Just to add fluff here, InterDev uses the FP extensions to upload/manage
: content as well. (and InterDev ain't no novice editor)
:
: das all
: sgd





From crawford_phil at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 10:58:39 2001
From: crawford_phil at hotmail.com (phil crawford)
Date: Fri May 25 10:58:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
Message-ID: <F273FlmmlQ080Gxw8Zw00014b77@hotmail.com>

I think if you hit ctrl-shift-v it will paste your yadda's inside <p> tags

-phil


>From: Mark Rogers <mrogers at ocis.net>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: "evolt.org list" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:31:12 -0700
>
>Judging by the replies, I wasn't clear in earlier message.
>
>I want to copy text from a word processor that looks like this:
>
>Yadda (return)
>(return)
>Yadda (return)
>(return)
>Yadda (return)
>(return)
>
>And paste it into Dreamweaver 3. When I do, it looks like this:
>
><P>
>Yadda <BR>
>Yadda <BR>
>Yadda
></P>
>
>But I want it to look like this:
>
><P> Yadda </P>
><P> Yadda </P>
><P> Yadda </P>
>
>Sorry if I'm asking something obvious. It's just got me stumped. Thanks for
>any help.
>
>Mark Rogers
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From k.smith at tatnet.com  Fri May 25 11:04:50 2001
From: k.smith at tatnet.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: Fri May 25 11:04:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDIEHACDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <B733FB08.477B%k.smith@tatnet.com>

> What I want to
> have happen is when the person picks one of the two links, the little window
> closes and the section that they have selected to go to appears in the main
> window.

<a href="#" onclick="opener.location='page.htm';self.close()">

--
kevin c smith
tatnet, inc.
e: k.smith at tatnet.com
t: 410.571.9462
f: 410.571.9442




From noah at tookish.net  Fri May 25 11:06:45 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Fri May 25 11:06:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDAEHCCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
References: <014701c0e530$5b3d2a60$9701a8c0@fr>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010525120148.009ecd90@tookish.net>

>But I can't actually find any JavaScript that closes the little window and
>targets the new link to the main window. Plus, I don't read French, so it is
>rather hard to follow the comments in your code.

I'm no javascript guru, but I'll put this here in hopes that the gurus will 
let me (and you) know if it's bad. It works, though.

The function is:

function changeonclose(location) {
   window.opener.location.href=location;
   parent.close();
}

and it's called by:

a href="javascript:changeonclose('blah.shtml')"

(tag thingies omitted so that this doesn't get flagged as html mail)

Cheers,

Noah




From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Fri May 25 11:08:20 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri May 25 11:08:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
References: <20010525111031-r01010600-fffda254@10.0.0.15>
Message-ID: <01bf01c0e534$d4e6f5e0$93ac1b18@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> > excuse me, I might be saying something silly... but using
> > target="new-window-name" in the <a> tag forces the browser to
> > open a new window with that name- right? Is this javascript? Is
> > it compatible with v2 browsers?
> 
> You're right, but the problem of opening a pop-up window is not
> just getting the thing open. If you want *any* control over the
> dimensions and position of the window then you have to use
> Javascript, because there's no way to control how and where a
> window is opened with target="new_window". A pop-up window which is
> full-screen doesn't really help anyone...

Plus, you have to use client-side script to close it anyway. And, if
you open a window with anything other than client-side script, when
you attempt to close it with client-side script, many (if not all)
browsers will present the user with an alert similar to "The
application is attempting to close the current window. Will you allow
it?  [Yes] [No]" which is ugly and sounds worse to the user than it
really is.


hth,


- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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iQA/AwUBOw6DTHgH0dUmEhrcEQLzJACggHiZX0nUKXke4Q6IjJB0mONhoT0An3aY
7ssrsf66id+zp7cwkK7AvxDL
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From eric at ohmforce.com  Fri May 25 11:09:05 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Fri May 25 11:09:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDAEHCCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <019101c0e534$5d277160$9701a8c0@fr>

> anybody else?
No.
As I can get to cut and paste my own code, here it is.
<script language="JavaScript">
    window.opener.location.href =" http://your.main.window/dest/ ";
    self.close();
</script>

    Eric







From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 11:12:45 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 11:12:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
Message-ID: <85256A57.0058F671.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


<snip>
<a href="#" onclick="opener.location='page.htm';self.close()">
</snip>

Think you need .href in there... also, the javascript works better cross-browser
when placed in the href...
<a href="JavaScript: closerFunction();">Click Here to Close</a>

and in the
<head>
<script language="JavaScript">
<!-- Hide
function closerFunction()
{
opener.location.href='page.htm';
self.close();
}
// end hide -->
</script>
</head>

Untested, but should work.  Let me know if you have problems...

-Ron S.





From seth.bienek at sbti.com  Fri May 25 11:15:35 2001
From: seth.bienek at sbti.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Fri May 25 11:15:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Microsoft, AOL ink Windows pact
Message-ID: <FEEILENNJJNPMEGLELDIGEOADNAA.seth.bienek@sbti.com>

"The five-year contract between the two companies that guaranteed AOL prominent placing on Microsoft?s Windows operating system in exchange for exclusive support for Internet Explorer on AOL?s online service expired in January."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/578362.asp

Where does this leave Netscape?  Is this news to anyone else?

Seth

------------------------------
Seth Bienek
Solutions Development Manager
Stonebridge Technologies, Inc.
972.455.7294 tel
972.404.9754 fax
ICQ #7673959
------------------------------




From chris at completeimaging.com  Fri May 25 11:25:45 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri May 25 11:25:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <85256A57.0058F671.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEHDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>

Thank you to all, both suggestion worked perfectly. I went with a slightly
modified version of the function code and added the ability to pass the page
to be linked to as an argument in the function call.

Once again, thanks

Chris




From charliel at infohwy.com  Fri May 25 11:26:40 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Fri May 25 11:26:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <4.3.2.20010525162210.00b6d940@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <007601c0e548$0a9ad860$6e202fc0@emmis.com>

Yes...
<sigh>
I was hoping to do it elegantly with mod_rewrite
</sigh>
My equally hacky quickfix is to change referring urls from
cities.php?city=houston
to cities.php/city=houston
which mod_rewrite handles fine

I'm redesigning a whole section (for more adspace, of course) and parsing
everything through page.php for ease of maintenance, etc, etc.

I'll probably end up doing somehting like Peter mentions


> Somewhat hacky, but you could get the REQUEST_URI in de code in page.php,
> and parse everything after the ? out, and then there's a function to parse
> that in PHP. parse_querystring() or something.
> I said it, somewhat hacky.
> Peter





From rinaldi at ihwy.com  Fri May 25 11:30:05 2001
From: rinaldi at ihwy.com (Laura J. Rinaldi)
Date: Fri May 25 11:30:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver text input
In-Reply-To: <F273FlmmlQ080Gxw8Zw00014b77@hotmail.com>
References: <F273FlmmlQ080Gxw8Zw00014b77@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05010408b734490dae9c@[207.20.86.110]>

At 3:48 PM +0000 5/25/01, phil crawford wrote:
>I think if you hit ctrl-shift-v it will paste your yadda's inside <p> tags

An on a Mac it's "cloverleaf, shift, v"

Laura
-- 
"When action grows unprofitable, gather information; when information 
grows unprofitable, sleep."
		---Ursula K. Le Guin "The Left Hand of Darkness" (1969)



From noah at tookish.net  Fri May 25 11:30:25 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Fri May 25 11:30:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <85256A57.0058F671.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010525122255.009ec4f0@tookish.net>

><!-- Hide
>function closerFunction()
>{
>opener.location.href='page.htm';
>self.close();
>}
>// end hide -->


That's right - it should be self.close

no idea why parent.close worked - in theory it should have closed the 
window that opened the pop-up, I think

Cheers,

Noah




From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 11:38:55 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 11:38:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Form Mail
References: <200105250658.MAA04057@mother.deepalaya.org>
Message-ID: <3B0E8B35.B10DC15E@dowebs.com>

Ritwik Patra wrote:

> Yes! We can manage with the PHP script. I was wondering whether the "pop up"  thing and "close window" can be
> used without java script. Since you said no...where do I find the script for this purpose? Another question....can there
> be alternative ...Like if some has disabled java script ..Then he/she is provided with a simple format...I hope I am able
> to explain my requirement. Please do mention about the required java script....

The javascript you should use for closing your emailer window goes in
the body of the page that PHP will return after sending your email:

<script language=JavaScript>
document.write('<a href=javascript:window.close()>CLOSE</a>')
</script>

only a javascript enabled browser will see it, barbarians who run around
the web with javascript turned off will have to kill the window the old
fashioned way with their axe, but that's their choice.

As for opening the emailer window, the following will use the HTML
target to open a full size window for those same barbarians. Those with
javascript enabled will get a properly tailored and well mannered pop-up

<html>
<head>
<script language=javascript>
function emailer(){
wid=400;hei=400;
LeftPos = (screen.width) ? (screen.width-wid)/2 : 0;
TopPos = (screen.height) ? (screen.height-hei)/2 : 0;
url="URL_of_your_PHP"
window.open(url,"EMAIL","scrollbars=1,top="+TopPos+",left="+LeftPos+",width="+wid+",height="+hei)
}
</script>
</head>
<body>

<font size=2 face=Verdana,Arial,Geneva,sans-serif>
<script language=javascript>
document.write('<a href=javascript:emailer()>Send Us Email</a>')
</script>
<NOSCRIPT><a href="URL_of_your_PHP" target="EMAIL">Send Us
Email</a></NOSCRIPT>
</font>

</body>
</html>



From pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk  Fri May 25 11:40:10 2001
From: pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk (Peter Stansfield)
Date: Fri May 25 11:40:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
Message-ID: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>

Could anyone tell me how to use absolute roots - if that's the right way of
putting it - and the include command in PHP, or am I trying to do the
impossible.

I want to be able to include a file called template.php located in a files
directory. I want this file to be included by several different files held
in different directories. I thought this could be acheived using
include("/file/template.php") but it doesn't seem to want to work.

Please could someone show me the error of my ways.

Many thanks in advance




From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 11:42:50 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 11:42:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <85256A57.005BB769.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


being friday, I felt we needed more explosions... explosions are cool
BOOOOM!

<tip>

If you're new to web development, try do to as much as possible in a text
      editor.  I started out this way and it has helped me greatly.  If I had
      started with WYSIWYG and not learned how to code by hand, I wouldn't have
      landed a job working with JSPs and Servlets.  I wasn't writing the JSPs or
      Servlets, but I worked on a team where I incorporated a look and feel into
      the dynamic pages.  WYSIWYG won't do that so well... and now it opened up
      the world of ERP connectivity for me.  BTW, I landed that first real job
      by putting Notepad on my resume.  Sounds crazy, but the Java programmer in
      house picked up on it and they hired me.

</tip>





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 11:45:20 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 11:45:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20010525162210.00b6d940@mail.vardus.net>
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525094348.02b4d908@baratta.com>

Charlie...

I found this, not sure if you seen it.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_rewrite.html

Server-Variables: These are variables of the form

      %{ NAME_OF_VARIABLE }

where NAME_OF_VARIABLE can be a string taken from the following list:

connection & request:

REMOTE_ADDR
REMOTE_HOST
REMOTE_USER
REMOTE_IDENT
REQUEST_METHOD
SCRIPT_FILENAME
PATH_INFO
QUERY_STRING   <<<<<<<<<<<<<
AUTH_TYPE
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Fri May 25 11:51:52 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Fri May 25 11:51:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] MouseOver Table Cells
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E110412@usnapsmail.asg.com>

That worked great! Thanks a bunch!

Now, I have to ask. . . .is there any way to make the whole row a link?

I can pull the link dynamically from a DB, but I don't fully understand the
DOM (hey. . .gimme a break, I'm trying. . .)and not sure how that would be
rendered. . .  any thoughts?

Thanks,

Don M

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Crawford [mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 11:21 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] MouseOver Table Cells


on 5/25/2001 7:40 AM, Don Makoviney at DonM at allensysgroup.com wrote:

> I am mousing over table cells and changing the colors like this in ASP:
> 
> Response.Write ("<tr><td style='border-bottom:1px groove gray;cursor:hand'
> onMouseOver=""this.style.backgroundColor='#ffffdd'""
> onMouseOut=""this.style.backgroundColor=''""><b>" & objItem &
> "</b></td><td>" & Request.QueryString(objItem) & "</td></tr>")
> 
> 
> However, instead of hardcoding these colors in like I have above, I would
> like to specify these colors in a CSS file, but I am having a hard time
> finding the equivalent way to do it there.

You can call this.style.className - then have the class name in your CSS
which the page access (could be on the page, could be in a linked
stylesheet).

<td
    onmouseover="this.className='yellowThing';"
    onmouseout="this.className='whiteThing';">hello</td>

So you need whiteThing and yellowThing classes:

<style type="text/css">
<!--
.yellowThing {
background: #FF9;
}
.whiteThing {
background: #FFF;
}
//-->
</style>

I have something similar here:
http://www.artlung.com/temp/tr-onmouseover-style.html

But I really need to move it to http://www.artlung.com/lab/ somewhere.

HTH,
    Joe
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From charliel at infohwy.com  Fri May 25 11:55:42 2001
From: charliel at infohwy.com (Charlie Llewellin)
Date: Fri May 25 11:55:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] mod_rewrite hell
References: <B73302A9.B450%charliel@infohwy.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010525094348.02b4d908@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <008401c0e54c$18249620$6e202fc0@emmis.com>

A ha! Doh! etc..

<tip>
If you've still got gifs as headlines floating around, take the time to get
rid of them and set up styles.
What you lose in font precision you will gain immensely in flexible layouts
and ease of editing.
</tip>
> Charlie...
>
> I found this, not sure if you seen it.
>
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_rewrite.html
>
> Server-Variables: These are variables of the form
>
>       %{ NAME_OF_VARIABLE }
>
> where NAME_OF_VARIABLE can be a string taken from the following list:
>
> connection & request:
>
> REMOTE_ADDR
> REMOTE_HOST
> REMOTE_USER
> REMOTE_IDENT
> REQUEST_METHOD
> SCRIPT_FILENAME
> PATH_INFO
> QUERY_STRING   <<<<<<<<<<<<<
> AUTH_TYPE





From jcrawford at avencom.com  Fri May 25 11:56:37 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Fri May 25 11:56:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Make a row a link (was: MouseOver Table Cells)
In-Reply-To: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E110412@usnapsmail.asg.com>
Message-ID: <B733DD1F.3D2C%jcrawford@avencom.com>

on 5/25/2001 9:52 AM, Don Makoviney at DonM at allensysgroup.com wrote:

> That worked great! Thanks a bunch!
> 
> Now, I have to ask. . . .is there any way to make the whole row a link?
> 
> I can pull the link dynamically from a DB, but I don't fully understand the
> DOM (hey. . .gimme a break, I'm trying. . .)and not sure how that would be
> rendered. . .  any thoughts?


I think something like:
<tr onclick="location.href='http://evolt.org/';"><td>...

-- not something I've tested, your mileage may vary.

But that's something you'd have to test in browsers to rely on for your
links. It's DOM and Browser and JavaScript dependent in the worst way.
Forget your backwards compatibility.

But it's kinda neat.

    - Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher





From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Fri May 25 11:57:07 2001
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Fri May 25 11:57:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for May 24, 2001
Message-ID: <200105250446.XAA30764@poet.oracular.com>

evolt.org headlines for May 24, 2001

Cold Fusion Master needed in Washington DC  by: ahendricks
http://evolt.org/article/headlines/23/10694/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 11:58:42 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 11:58:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525095906.02aec128@baratta.com>

At 09:40 AM 5/25/2001, you wrote:
>Could anyone tell me how to use absolute roots - if that's the right way of
>putting it - and the include command in PHP, or am I trying to do the
>impossible.
>
>I want to be able to include a file called template.php located in a files
>directory. I want this file to be included by several different files held
>in different directories. I thought this could be acheived using
>include("/file/template.php") but it doesn't seem to want to work.
>
>Please could someone show me the error of my ways.


http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.virtual.php


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Fri May 25 11:59:32 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Fri May 25 11:59:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Make a row a link (was: MouseOver Table Cells)
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E110414@usnapsmail.asg.com>

Cool. I am on an Intranet and everyone has IE 5.5 or higher. So it should
work great.

Thanks again!

DM

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Crawford [mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:58 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Make a row a link (was: MouseOver Table Cells)


on 5/25/2001 9:52 AM, Don Makoviney at DonM at allensysgroup.com wrote:

> That worked great! Thanks a bunch!
> 
> Now, I have to ask. . . .is there any way to make the whole row a link?
> 
> I can pull the link dynamically from a DB, but I don't fully understand
the
> DOM (hey. . .gimme a break, I'm trying. . .)and not sure how that would be
> rendered. . .  any thoughts?


I think something like:
<tr onclick="location.href='http://evolt.org/';"><td>...

-- not something I've tested, your mileage may vary.

But that's something you'd have to test in browsers to rely on for your
links. It's DOM and Browser and JavaScript dependent in the worst way.
Forget your backwards compatibility.

But it's kinda neat.

    - Joe <http://artlung.com/>
--
Joe Crawford ||||||||||||||       mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com
||||||||||||||||||||||||             http://www.avencom.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||      Avencom: Set Your Sites Higher



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk  Fri May 25 12:12:32 2001
From: pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk (Peter Stansfield)
Date: Fri May 25 12:12:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525095906.02aec128@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <00a101c0e53d$dfdde180$8d0d260a@student1210>

Thanks for the link, but I actually want the file to be included, and the
php code contained to be executed. I'm hoping I'm making a fool of myself
and will kick myself when I work out how to do it. The virtual command
doesn't do what I'm after.




From peter at vardus.com  Fri May 25 12:15:47 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri May 25 12:15:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010525175329.02686a50@mail.vardus.net>

>Please could someone show me the error of my ways.

include works from your server root, not from your domain name root.
So you probably have to do someting like
include ("/www/htdocs/stuff/image.txt");
instead of
include ("/stuff/image.txt");

the path (/www/htdocs/) depends on your provider.
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From peter at vardus.com  Fri May 25 12:15:52 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri May 25 12:15:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010525175512.02677e70@mail.vardus.net>

>I want to be able to include a file called template.php located in a files
>directory. I want this file to be included by several different files held
>in different directories. I thought this could be acheived using
>include("/file/template.php") but it doesn't seem to want to work.

tip:

What I always do is define the path
define (PATHTOROOT, "/www/server/htdocs/");
and then do all includes like this:
include (PATHTOROOT . "/file/template.php");

Again, the path depends on your provider. You can probably find it out by 
FTP-ing and see what directories you get there before the htdocs publicly 
viewable one.
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From peter at vardus.com  Fri May 25 12:16:00 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Fri May 25 12:16:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
In-Reply-To: <3B0D422F.8937BCD6@acu.ac.uk>
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEGDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010525174501.026875c0@mail.vardus.net>

>I forgot this! MySQL isn't really an enterprise level solution. It's
>very stable, and (touch wood) I've never lost data with it. Lots of high
>traffic websites (slashdot) use it, and for selecting it's very fast. It
>does not, however, support transactions and it rebuilds its indices
>after each insert/update. The question is, how enterprise level are you?

I agree. However, Oracle's power comes with a price: it takes a lot more 
time to plan and set up a database with constraints, transactions and 
stuff. If you don't know very well what you're doing, there's no point. 
What I'm trying to say is: using Oracle in itself won't make for a better 
solution, using the strengths of Oracle will, but then you're talking a lot 
more work. Which can often better be spent working on the code, not the 
database. Most websites won't need it, some web applications will.
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From wolfboy69 at earthlink.net  Fri May 25 12:18:32 2001
From: wolfboy69 at earthlink.net (Michael Wolfe)
Date: Fri May 25 12:18:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010525101658.00a86400@mail.earthlink.net>

At 05:40 PM 5/25/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Could anyone tell me how to use absolute roots - if that's the right way of
>putting it - and the include command in PHP, or am I trying to do the
>impossible.
>
>I want to be able to include a file called template.php located in a files
>directory. I want this file to be included by several different files held
>in different directories. I thought this could be acheived using
>include("/file/template.php") but it doesn't seem to want to work.

Peter,

What I usually do is declare a variable that points to DOCUMENT_ROOT in a 
file called globals.php, which I include with every file.

here's the code snippet

<?php
$DR = $DOCUMENT_ROOT;
?>

Here's the line I include in all of my files:

<?php
include($DOCUMENT_ROOT."/inc/globals.php");
?>


And then, when I want to use absolute references, I use something like this:
<?php
include($DR."/inc/db.inc.php");
?>




___________________
Michael Wolfe
Senior Software Engineer

http://www.ework.com
mwolfe at ework.com





From headlemur at qwest.net  Fri May 25 12:22:43 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Fri May 25 12:22:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] weekend Humor
Message-ID: <001b01c0e53e$401317a0$0b646464@qwest.net>

Weekend Humor
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

In order to keep the signal to noise ratio at it's excellent level, I would
suggest the following terms and service agreement.

1. To post to our list, You must provide the following information:
    A. Your complete mailing address including all phone numbers.
        Copies of your phone bill and ISP payment records
        (originals Only-facsimiles will not be accepted)

2. Proof of Residence;
    A. Mortgage Closing Statement
        1. we will examine this to see it you paid too much in closing
            costs, demonstrating your unsuitability for our
            community. If you paid too much
            what's to prevent you doing something stupid here?

    B. 8x12 Photos of your domicile (4 required- All four Sides)
        1. Photos and unretouched jpgs. this information will be used by our
            profilers to determine your colorsense ( through exhaustive
testing in
            cooperation with jakob nielson people with bad colorsense are
more likely             to say stupid things)

    C: An essay not to exceed 50 words as to why your imput is anything we
        may view with more than complete and utter contempt.

    D: Character References from 6 people of 'Known Good Virtue' divided
        equally between the two biological sexes. (we are not bigots ya
know.)
        (This excludes immediate family members
        including first cousins married or not)

    E: Title to Your Car.(this is surety against trying to flee the internet
        during expulsion proceedings should such become necessary)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


These may seem a bit draconian but bear with me.

Addressing and phone information information is critical for voice mail
flaming during members sleeping periods for maximum return for mininum
effort.
I will be happy to call for you:)

Apartment dwellers are known flight risks and have no ties to the community.
They are also more likely to have spelling issues.

The photographs will aliow us to send the towtruck with the bullhorn in the
dead of night to pickup their car (which we have the title for) as well as
being to wake them and their neighbors to explain the rules and regulations
in excruciating detail.

This can also be used as a marketing tool for increasing our membership.

Imagine, we have woken up the miscreant, demonstrating our commitment to
purity and clean posting, made the folks around them aware of the viper in
their bosom, and can hand out applications forms to join. (okay this part
might need a little polish, but the premise is sound)


I was also thinking about a $5000 non refundable application fee for
administration costs (split 50-50) which would help us make the list a
better place.

It could work!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt.org
http://www.evolt.org
Lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com





From razorwise at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 12:24:27 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Fri May 25 12:24:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, querystring question
In-Reply-To: <00a101c0e53d$dfdde180$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <20010525172503.95952.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

My code, relating to this q, is shown below.  I'm new at PHP and MySql and I was running through
the WEBMONKEY TUTORIAL -->http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/21/index3a.html<-- and replacing
it with my own database and whatnot.  However, when I'm trying to do the query with this variable,
$id (below) it gives me this error-->Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource...<--  however, should I replace it with a literal value, id ='whatever', it pulls the
query fine.  

I've been trying to figure this out for some time this morning and am at a loss.  I've even done a
printf on the $id.  My understanding is that the name=value pair is automatically created here,
that's what the tutorial said.  I will appreciate any/all help on the understanding of what I
thought should be a simple thing.  *L*


Sincerely,

Sean
(Remembering the simple days, when everyone had green screens...*g*)

CODE FOLLOWS:
 
if ($id) {

   $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM cars2 where id= $id" ,$db);

   $myrow = mysql_fetch_array($result);

   printf("Owner:%s\n<br>", $myrow["id"]);

   printf("Make: %s\n<br>", $myrow["make"]);

   printf("Model: %s\n<br>", $myrow["model"]);

   printf("Year: %s\n<br>", $myrow["year"]);

	printf($id);	
   
} else {

    // show car list

   $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM cars2",$db);

    if ($myrow = mysql_fetch_array($result)) {

      // display list if there are records to display

      do {

      
    printf("<center><br><br><a href=\"%s?id=%s\">%s %s %s</a><br><br></center>\n",
$PHP_SELF,$myrow["id"],$myrow["make"], $myrow["model"], $myrow["year"]);


      } while ($myrow = mysql_fetch_array($result));

    } else {

      // no records to display

      echo "Sorry, no records were found!";	

    }

}



?>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From lauri at subdimension.com  Fri May 25 12:28:02 2001
From: lauri at subdimension.com (Lauri Watts)
Date: Fri May 25 12:28:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
In-Reply-To: <85256A57.005BB769.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
References: <85256A57.005BB769.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <200105251728.NAA14018@nitro.0wned.org>

On Friday 25 May 2001 18:44, you wrote:
> being friday, I felt we needed more explosions... explosions are cool
> BOOOOM!
>
> <tip>
>
> If you're new to web development, try do to as much as possible in a text
>       editor.  I started out this way and it has helped me greatly.  If I
> had started with WYSIWYG and not learned how to code by hand, I wouldn't
> have landed a job working with JSPs and Servlets.  I wasn't writing the
> JSPs or Servlets, but I worked on a team where I incorporated a look and
> feel into the dynamic pages.  WYSIWYG won't do that so well... and now it
> opened up the world of ERP connectivity for me.  BTW, I landed that first
> real job by putting Notepad on my resume.  Sounds crazy, but the Java
> programmer in house picked up on it and they hired me.
>
> </tip>

Hmmm, YMMV there.  People who put "notepad" on a resume don't impress me at 
all, because notepad has no features.  None. 

I'm not talking about the latest wysiwyg whizz bang drag and drop, I'm 
talking about simple things like syntax highlighting, indenting, maybe some 
further features like validation, code completion.  

These are things that help you work faster, because they help you work 
smarter.  I do the majority of my work in SGML and XML, and the same goes for 
those.  

I agree a text editor will teach you to look at your markup in an entirely 
different way than a wysiwyg editor, but that should be a text editor that 
helps you, not hinders you.   Notepad is the editor of choice for masochists 
and people woh 

Emacs (+ psgml mode), vi, (both freely available on platforms you've probably 
never even heard of) or the more traditional Windows HomeSite and Mac BBEdit 
- those will get my attention. Notepad on the other hand, does not.

-- 
Lauri Watts




From joshua at alphashop.net  Fri May 25 12:31:57 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Fri May 25 12:31:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] weekend Humor
References: <001b01c0e53e$401317a0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <005301c0e540$fe1a54a0$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

What?  No mailing address to which I am to send these things??

<tip type="ColdFusion Studio">
Did you know that you can scroll ColdFusion Studio by simply holding down
the Control key when you click an up or down arrow key.
</tip>

----- Original Message -----
From: "the head lemur" <headlemur at qwest.net>
Subject: [thelist] weekend Humor


: Weekend Humor
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

<cut>

: ------------------------
: I was also thinking about a $5000 non refundable application fee for
: administration costs (split 50-50) which would help us make the list a
: better place.
:
: It could work!





From pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk  Fri May 25 12:39:07 2001
From: pete at stan42.freeserve.co.uk (Peter Stansfield)
Date: Fri May 25 12:39:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010525101658.00a86400@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00c701c0e541$b4454f50$8d0d260a@student1210>

I've kicked myself thoroughly now. Thanks a lot, it's been really irritating
me for a while that little problem.

I've used that workaround before too - why did it slip my mind this time?

>> include($DOCUMENT_ROOT."/inc/globals.php");

Thanks again






From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Fri May 25 12:51:33 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Fri May 25 12:51:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010525120148.009ecd90@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPOEIGCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

>(tag thingies omitted so that this doesn't get flagged as html mail)

No need to worry about this. As long as the e-mail's format is Plain Text,
the alligator(angle) brackets won't get puked on by MajorGumbo.

Thanks,
Ron White






From bobd at members.evolt.org  Fri May 25 12:56:33 2001
From: bobd at members.evolt.org (Bob Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 12:56:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, include()  and relative links
In-Reply-To: <004d01c0e539$78f0afb0$8d0d260a@student1210>
Message-ID: <200105251757.f4PHv4620425@chmls20.mediaone.net>

On Friday, May 25, 2001, at 12:40 PM, Peter Stansfield wrote:

> I want to be able to include a file called template.php located in a 
> files
> directory. I want this file to be included by several different files 
> held
> in different directories. I thought this could be acheived using
> include("/file/template.php") but it doesn't seem to want to work.
>
> Please could someone show me the error of my ways.

I've used this:

<?
	include($DOCUMENT_ROOT."/file/template.php")
?>

The thing is that PHP sees the root of the site differently than the 
server does. It looks at the absolute path on the server, and not the 
root as defined in, say, Apache.

bob

--
bob davis
bobd at members.evolt.org



From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 13:02:58 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 13:02:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photos
References: <000201c0e300$698b0ec0$6c91883e@y3s2e7> <3B0B0093.1406.3DCDB2D6@localhost> <00f001c0e3cd$b47bffc0$6400a8c0@kjs>
Message-ID: <3B0E9EE9.C59BADE2@dowebs.com>

Kevin Stevens wrote:
> 

> question. I had invisaged having a page with background and nav bar and
> working out the code so that just the picture changes without re-loading the
> whole page.

> I could have fields for
> the dimensions, alt tags, brief description etc. 

You can do a slide show all on one page using different images of
different sizes, each displaying it own description etc. Just place each
image-discription-etc display in a div and give it "hidden" visibility.
Be sure to position each div in the same area so they are arranged in an
invisible stack. Then list each div id in an array. 

When visitor clicks "next" loop through the array giving "hidden" to all
divs and then end by giving "visible" to the next div in the array. Be
sure to capture the array ordinal position of that image in a global
variable so you can increment to "next" or decrement to "previous" on
the next click.

Ah, but you don't want all of those images to have to load with the
page, you want them to load as they are called. No problem. In your div
specify a 1 pixel transparency where the image goes and give the image a
name. When you give the div "visibile" also do a rollover on that image
name calling the real image from the server. Do not preload those
images.

This isn't as hard as it sounds. I do this a little differently at
http://allidaho.com. There the visitor clicks an ad spot in one frame
that sends the visible and rollover commands to a different frame. The
point is, the ad billboard that loads in the other frame is in a div
which takes visibility and rolls the image over to call the
corresponding ad billboard off the server. You can toggle back and forth
from billboard to billboard and it all happens without changing or
reloading the page that the slide show takes place on. Although the
entire tabset there is database driven that is not because a database is
required for the slide show effect, the database exits so that the owner
can change the ads and tabset parameters through his browser.

keith



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri May 25 13:21:03 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri May 25 13:21:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] MS-SQL vs. MySQL - was Front-end for MS-SQL?
Message-ID: <01c0e547$50434b00$524b149a@rudy>

> ...  but then you're talking a lot more work.
> Which can often better be spent working on the code,
> not the database.

hey, them's fightin words

every five minutes spent designing a better database
saves you five hours of pointless coding

how's that?   <grin />


i agree with your comments about oracle (and other "industrial strength"
database systems like sql/server and sybase) requiring time and attention
to set up properly, but that's what the database administrator is supposed
to do for you


<tip>
if the database has already been built, and/or for some reason you can't
change the design, ask the database administrator to declare a custom view
if, in every page where you extract data from a particular table, you have
to stop and reformat the data yourself in the script (cold fusion, php,
asp, what have you)... the reformatting goes into the view definition only
once --

  create view FriendlyTable
     (ID, FullName, PhoneNo, BirthDate)
     as
       select ID
            , trim(both,LastName) ||
                case when trim(both,FirstName)=''
                    then "" else ', ' || trim(both,FirstName) end
            , '(' || AreaCode || ') ' || Exchange || '-' || Phone
            , substring(cast(BirthDay as varchar(20)) from 1 to 10)
        from RawTable

then all your script's queries can simply select the view's columns,
which will have the format you want "built in" as it were --

  select FullName, BirthDate
    from FriendlyTable
     order by BirthDate asc

</tip>


rudy






From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 13:44:28 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 13:44:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Was OT "KABOOOOOOM", now "Let's argue about Notepad"
Message-ID: <85256A57.0066DBCF.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


<snip>
Hmmm, YMMV there.  People who put "notepad" on a resume don't impress me at
all, because notepad has no features.  None.

I'm not talking about the latest wysiwyg whizz bang drag and drop, I'm
talking about simple things like syntax highlighting, indenting, maybe some
further features like validation, code completion.

These are things that help you work faster, because they help you work
smarter.  I do the majority of my work in SGML and XML, and the same goes for
those.

I agree a text editor will teach you to look at your markup in an entirely
different way than a wysiwyg editor, but that should be a text editor that
helps you, not hinders you.   Notepad is the editor of choice for masochists
and people woh

Emacs (+ psgml mode), vi, (both freely available on platforms you've probably
never even heard of) or the more traditional Windows HomeSite and Mac BBEdit
- those will get my attention. Notepad on the other hand, does not.

--
Lauri Watts
</snip>

Lauri,
I asked for explosions and that's what I got! :)
BTW, I don't code in Notepad... in my tip is stated "try do to as much as
possible in a text editor" ... not specifically Notepad.  I currently use
TextPad because it's free and I know the shortcut keys, etc.  Downloadable
dictionaries and macros... yes, I have heard of and used VI on UNIX.  I'm sorry
that you had to comment that it's "freely available on platforms you've probably
never even heard of."  This is a personal attack and I must say these types of
statements are not welcome on [thelist].
I agree that people who only code in Notepad are most likely masochists.  There
is no reason to limit yourself.  Take advantage of the tools offered.  I hope
that this is not how my message came across.  I have and use Dreamweaver, when I
need.  I don't need to spend 30 minutes typing <td></td> over and over just to
create a simple table...
All I wanted to say was that learning to code by hand will separate a web
developer from the crowd... it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things.
If you disagree with this, please respond as I would be interested in what you
have to say.

Best wishes,
Ron "KABOOM" Senykoff






From mwarden at odyssey-design.com  Fri May 25 13:46:43 2001
From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri May 25 13:46:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
References: <85256A57.005BB769.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com> <200105251728.NAA14018@nitro.0wned.org>
Message-ID: <006301c0e54b$2d000da0$7603020a@patk3mzsmhxpqb>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> Hmmm, YMMV there.  People who put "notepad" on a resume don't
> impress me at  all, because notepad has no features.  None. 

Yeah, of course, I don't know anyone who would put down the text
editor they use to handcode on their resume.

> I'm not talking about the latest wysiwyg whizz bang drag and drop,
> I'm  talking about simple things like syntax highlighting,

You're right. Notepad doesn't have that.

> indenting,

I have a Tab key.

> maybe some 
> further features like validation,

There are web sources that are much better for this, especially if
you're coding in a server-side scripting language.

> code completion.  

Oh god no!

> These are things that help you work faster, because they help you
> work  smarter. 

This is just your opinion. The only thing I agree with you on is the
syntax highlighting. Everything else is stuff you have to get used to
(like code completion and indenting). This stuff slows me down
becuase my brain automatically tells my hand to add another tab in
there after I write an if conditional line.

> I agree a text editor will teach you to look at your markup in an
> entirely  different way than a wysiwyg editor, but that should be a
> text editor that  helps you, not hinders you.   Notepad is the
> editor of choice for masochists   

Maybe. Though please take into account that the more "features" a
text editor has, the more of a learning curve it has. That's the main
reason I've never gone into any time of WYSIWYG editor even for
prototyping: I can always do it faster by hand than learning how to
do it in the WYSIWYG editor. UltraEdit is my editory of choice and
the only reason I use it is for auto-indent (not what you were
mentioning above -- autoindent here is:

        text starts after two Tabs. When I hit enter my cursor will
go to the next line after two tabs
        like this

It's all about personal preference and how much you like your editor
fux0ring with how you type and how you code. It only increases
productivity when you expect what it does. And, especially with the
newer version of Notepad in Win2k, it's an OK editor.

> Emacs (+ psgml mode), vi, (both freely available on platforms
> you've probably  never even heard of) or the more traditional
> Windows HomeSite and Mac BBEdit  - those will get my attention.
> Notepad on the other hand, does not.  

Personally, I would look more to the work they've accomplished with
their editor of choice rather than the editor itself.


- --
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

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From doshea at surfree.com  Fri May 25 13:48:08 2001
From: doshea at surfree.com (Daniel S. O'Shea)
Date: Fri May 25 13:48:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
In-Reply-To: <002601c0e4b6$0ecd72e0$010a0a0a@vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINKEILCCAA.doshea@surfree.com>

To run FP, you must use their extensions. They allow the full features that
come with Frontpage.
Any and all references that run 'webbots' like 'hover' links and such need
these extensions. Uploading needs these extensions. To run the FP Database
wizard needs these extensions.
If you have FP97, you need extensions for 97. FP98, 98 and FP2000, you need
2000. Almost all host servers have all three installed knowing FP97, 98 is
still used.

If you upload using ftp, their are some directories you may overlook that
were created in your web pages or added to, you may miss. Then the feature
won't work.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mutes
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:00 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] FP Question
>
>
> Apparently, my host supports "Frontpage 2000 Extensions" and it "comes
> installed on your site and ready to be logged into." However, I
> have no clue
> to what that is... Can anybody fill me in please?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Fri May 25 13:53:45 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Fri May 25 13:53:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <200105251853.f4PIrf531267@leo.evolt.org>

>Hmmm, YMMV there.  People who put "notepad" on a resume >don't impress me at all, because notepad has no features.  >None. 

So you must have features in order to write/edit code?

>I'm not talking about the latest wysiwyg whizz bang drag >and drop, I'm talking about simple things like syntax >highlighting, indenting, maybe some further features like >validation, code completion.  

When I began "writing code" by punching holes in cards syntax highlighting, indenting, and further features were awefully handy. Imagine my disdain when I got my hands on a text editor on a monochrome monitor.

>These are things that help you work faster, because they >help you work smarter.  I do the majority of my work in >SGML and XML, and the same goes for those.  

Are SGML and XML editors? Or did you pass an incomplete idea here?

>I agree a text editor will teach you to look at your >markup in an entirely different way than a wysiwyg editor, >but that should be a text editor that helps you, not >hinders you.   Notepad is the editor of choice for >masochists and people woh 

Again, an incomplete thought here? But, Notepad is the editor of choice for some (emphasis on 'is').

>Emacs (+ psgml mode), vi, (both freely available on >platforms you've probably never even heard of) or the more >traditional Windows HomeSite and Mac BBEdit - those will >get my attention. Notepad on the other hand, does not.

How do you know that this person has not heard of UNIX or Linux or AIX or BSD? Homesite traditional? Notepad would be traditional as far as Windows is concerned as it has been in every Windows release, where Homesite (I use the not so fancy version of Homesite - v1.2, released about 5 years ago)has not been around as long.

<tip>
Code by hand, in any editor, anywhere, anytime. WRIRE code, code, and more code. Don't worry about the features, worry about the code. Learn to indent and comment properly, in that you will learn where to search for syntax errors and become more intuitive in your coding. Document and comment that which you have written, for someone with a fancier editor may come along and still not be able to discern what you have done without it...but the color code will sure look good.
</tip>

Jay Blanchard
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From r937 at interlog.com  Fri May 25 13:57:34 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri May 25 13:57:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <01c0e54c$8fe68ba0$524b149a@rudy>

>Yeah, of course, I don't know anyone who would put down the text
>editor they use to handcode on their resume.

i put it into my site's meta tags --

  <meta name="generator"
         content="WebHackerPro(tm) Version 5.937" />

this, of course, is a totally fictitious piece of software, and refers
instead to my good self using a text editor (PFE, no syntax highlighting,
but a killer s&r feature)

today seems the day for offlist comments, eh

rudy




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 13:58:44 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 13:58:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E02@gate.ti3.com>

I use FrontPage!!


sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rudy [mailto:r937 at interlog.com]
> 
>   <meta name="generator"
>          content="WebHackerPro(tm) Version 5.937" />
> 



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Fri May 25 13:59:54 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Fri May 25 13:59:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F125@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

<snip>
Personally, I would look more to the work they've accomplished with
their editor of choice rather than the editor itself.
</snip>

+1.


One additional note on NotePad ... if you're across the hall or across the
planet trying to help someone 'de-munge' some code ... you can pretty much
count on NotePad being available [on a Win-whatever platform anyway] ...
these folks may not want you to download "furrin" editors onto their system
or they may not want to wait to tackle the problem until you've run down to
the local software shoppe, bought something, and come back to install it. In
those cases NotePad can be pretty darn handy.

Not that I'd put it on my resume.


RonL.




From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri May 25 14:05:24 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri May 25 14:05:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] re: PHP, include()  and relative links
Message-ID: <3B0EAD0F.45393F0C@netpaths.net>

another option that gives more flexibility:

<?
$base_dir = "/www/htdocs/";
$inc_dir = $base_dir . "/site-lib";
$doc_dir = "/www/htdocs/mysite";
?>

<?
require $inc_dir . "/header.inc";

?>


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From mike at tokenzone.com  Fri May 25 14:06:14 2001
From: mike at tokenzone.com (Michael Stevens)
Date: Fri May 25 14:06:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E02@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <PEEFINEOJCNKLJFFDDFCCEIHCCAA.mike@tokenzone.com>

-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dexter
>Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:59 PM
>To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM 

>I use FrontPage!!

I'm sorry.   ;)



From michael at tdh-marketing.com  Fri May 25 14:06:19 2001
From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard)
Date: Fri May 25 14:06:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Banner - Advertising Pricing
References: <20010525172505.078E3CA4@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c0e54d$b2ae8c40$4b01a8c0@michael>

I am researching on pricing schemes for banner placement, text-links and
other forms of online advertisments for a client who will be selling
advertising space on their web site for businesses within the community.

So far, I have found a ton of information on the different types of
advertising banners and programs, however I have yet to find any conclusive
pricing scheme.

Anyone have any ideas where to look?  Any suggestions or comments.

Thank you,

Michael Goddard - CIW Associate
Internet Developer/Programmer
TDH Marketing & Communications, Inc.
8153 Garnet Drive
Dayton, Ohio 45458
Phone: 937-438-3434
Fax: 937-438-3453
E-Mail: michael at tdh-marketing.com




From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri May 25 14:11:04 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri May 25 14:11:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Was OT "KABOOOOOOM", now "Let's argue about Notepad"
References: <85256A57.0066DBCF.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EAB75.7829B867@starkmedia.com>

Lets relax.. I don't think Lauri meant it as a personal attack on
anyone.. she probably didn't mean "you've" as in you Ron, but more in
the abstract sense like "Hey you guys!" 

its friday, lets all have a good time and love eachother..

peace

<tip type="traceroutes">
Some people use pings and traceroutes as the final say in whether a site
is up or down.. Don't rely on them cus many firewalls block out the ICMP
protocol which traceroute and ping both rely on.
</tip>

.djc.


Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM wrote:

> dictionaries and macros... yes, I have heard of and used VI on UNIX.  I'm sorry
> that you had to comment that it's "freely available on platforms you've probably
> never even heard of."  This is a personal attack and I must say these types of
> statements are not welcome on [thelist].



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri May 25 14:13:39 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri May 25 14:13:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <01c0e54e$d14454e0$524b149a@rudy>

>  today seems the day for offlist comments, eh

i wish   ;o(

my apologies, everyone

<tip>
less haste, more speed
</tip>

<tip type="oldie but goodie">
most windows systems will have the .htm extension associated with a
browser, so for a neat way to bring these files up in your editor of choice
(assuming you aren't a drag-and-drop afficionado), put a shortcut to your
editor(s) in the Send To folder, then right-click the file in windows
explorer...
works great on other file types, too -- for example, if i just want to
quickly grab the dimensions of an image while writing my img tag, i'll
often just send the image to netscape 3 and read the dimensions off the
title bar...
</tip>

rudy





From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 14:21:14 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 14:21:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E04@gate.ti3.com>

I too, will pay for my sin (posting without at tip)

<tip>
If you've gone in and tweaked your IIS4 config, when you upgrade to
win2k/IIS5, it will notice and *retain* those settings. If you're not
confident whether or not IIS5 default settings are better (I'd say they are,
80% of the time; MS went and pre-tweaked IIS5), you can delete the metabase
(\winnt\system32\inetsrv\metabase.bin), or do a fresh install (not an
upgrade)
</tip>

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Dexter [mailto:sgd at ti3.com]
> 
> I use FrontPage!!
> 
> 



From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri May 25 14:21:49 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri May 25 14:21:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] phplib template
Message-ID: <3B0EB0EC.68BCFC1@netpaths.net>

Has anyone created, or knows someone who has made a good working version out of phplib template?  I
have seen FastTemplate, but that seems outdated, and smarty template requires PHP 4.05 and I only
have access to 4.03.  Im looking for a good jump start on the project so I dont have to start from
scratch,

best

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 14:27:00 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 14:27:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
Message-ID: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


<snip>

Some people use pings and traceroutes as the final say in whether a site is up
      or down.. Don't rely on them cus many firewalls block out the ICMP
      protocol which traceroute and ping both rely on.

</snip>

What tools do you all recommend for checking your servers?



-Ron S.





From matt at sweetillusions.org  Fri May 25 14:31:25 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Fri May 25 14:31:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
References: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <01fb01c0e551$5cf4c270$6900000a@tendocom.org>

to see if the domain has dns/routing/reponses, use nslookup or dig from a
command prompt. combined with a ping or two for response times.

ping is still the default first check item to see if a site or ip is
responding. if it doesnt respond, move on to dig and traceroutes.

you can query your mail servers with a simple:
telnet mail.yourserver.com 25 (look up smtp commands in a search engine)


don't always depend on a whois .. more than ping, as a whois can have old or
outdated information (such as after a dns change or the like)


        .. matt

        .. www.sweetillusions.org
        .. matt at sweetillusions.org

        .. in our madness evermore we rave - chaucer

----- Original Message -----
From: <Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:28 PM
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes


:
:
: <snip>
:
: Some people use pings and traceroutes as the final say in whether a site
is up
:       or down.. Don't rely on them cus many firewalls block out the ICMP
:       protocol which traceroute and ping both rely on.
:
: </snip>
:
: What tools do you all recommend for checking your servers?
:
:
:
: -Ron S.
:
:
:
: ---------------------------------------
: For unsubscribe and other options, including
: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
:




From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Fri May 25 14:32:00 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Fri May 25 14:32:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Was OT "KABOOOOOOM", now "Let's argue about Notepad"
References: <85256A57.0066DBCF.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EB352.E8F96680@nc.rr.com>

TextPad is not free software.  The current price is $27 USD for a single-user
license.  And worth every penny in my estimation.

See: <URL:http://www.textpad.com/download/index.html>

Hey, could we not have a "my editor is better than your editor" war today?  It's
a personal choice after all.  

--rt

Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM wrote:

> I currently use TextPad because it's free...



From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri May 25 14:33:45 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri May 25 14:33:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
References: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EB0C5.BDBE2001@starkmedia.com>

I recommend a third party system(either yours or someone elses) that
sits on a *different* network than the one you're checking and makes X
amount of HTTP requests a day(for webservers) This checks for network
connectivity and for the webserver software itself being up and
accepting requests.

If you're just pinging or trace'ing, you're only checking network
connectivity.. After all, the machine might still be up and fine, but
the websever may have crashed...

.djc.

Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Some people use pings and traceroutes as the final say in whether a site is up
>       or down.. Don't rely on them cus many firewalls block out the ICMP
>       protocol which traceroute and ping both rely on.
> 
> </snip>
> 
> What tools do you all recommend for checking your servers?



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Fri May 25 14:39:55 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Fri May 25 14:39:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
In-Reply-To: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPIEINCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

For your own and on a constant basis - WhatsUp Gold.
For quick checks nmap of which there is now an NT version:

http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Tools/nmapNT.html

<tip>
Other Open Source UnixToNT ported tools:

http://security.oreilly.com/news/securingnt2_1200.html
</tip>

Thanks,
Ron White 


>What tools do you all recommend for checking your servers?





From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Fri May 25 14:47:10 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Fri May 25 14:47:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492DFA@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <ALEKICGEBAJFFOKKPDNGOELKCAAA.bheerssen@visualbridge.tv>

> Just to add fluff here, InterDev uses the FP extensions to upload/manage
> content as well. (and InterDev ain't no novice editor)
>
> das all
> sgd
>

I did not know that. Guess I shouldn't be surprised. I've used interdev once
or twice, and no it ain't for novices.

-Bruce




From Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM  Fri May 25 14:47:25 2001
From: Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM (Ron_Senykoff at BEAEROSPACE.COM)
Date: Fri May 25 14:47:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
Message-ID: <85256A57.006C9F55.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>


Thanks all for the suggestions.
A third-party that came very well recommended is
http://www.redalert.com/
Anyone ever deal with them?  Good/bad experiences?

-Ron





From razorwise at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 14:50:25 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Fri May 25 14:50:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, querystring question, figured it out
In-Reply-To: <20010525172503.95952.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010525193744.4095.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Figured it out.  I needed ticks around my variable string.  I didn't know that. I don't know if
I'm the only one that doesn't.   I'm learning the parser is a harsh mistress.  *L*  This should be
a tip.


Everyone have a safe Memorial day!  And keep your code tight, the police might have roadblocks set
up!  *g*

Later,

Sean



<tip>
In PHP, be sure to put ticks around your variables when passing them in a query. 

$example = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM cars2 where vin= '$vin' " ,$db);
</tip>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 14:54:35 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 14:54:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E07@gate.ti3.com>

We use a product called ipMonitor 6.0, it's pretty f*ing cool,
http://mediahouse.com/ipmonitor

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel J. Cody [mailto:djc at starkmedia.com]
> 
> I recommend a third party system(either yours or someone elses) that

> If you're just pinging or trace'ing, you're only checking network
> connectivity.. After all, the machine might still be up and fine, but
> the websever may have crashed...



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 14:59:15 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 14:59:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSL Renewals Broken in II5
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525125834.02bd2e98@baratta.com>

NOTE to IIS5 users:
There is a bug with IIS5 servers, and you won't be able to generate a 
renewal CSR automatically. You will see the following error: " PKCS#10 
Error: __getitem__" when you renew your certificate. This is a bug in IIS 5 
which has not yet been corrected by Microsoft. Unfortunately this problem 
cannot be corrected from our side, as it is a Microsoft related issue. 
Please contact them for any additional information. It will hopefully be 
corrected in SP2 according to Microsoft.

Thawte has a work around posted here....

http://www.thawte.com/certs/server/keygen/msiis5/iisrenewal.html
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 15:18:25 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 15:18:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSL Renewals Broken in II5
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E09@gate.ti3.com>

Have you applied SP2 yet? It is out....

lemme know --

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Baratta [mailto:Anthony at Baratta.com]
> Please contact them for any additional information. It will 
> hopefully be 
> corrected in SP2 according to Microsoft.
> 
> Thawte has a work around posted here....
> 
> http://www.thawte.com/certs/server/keygen/msiis5/iisrenewal.html



From ronwhite at members.evolt.org  Fri May 25 15:22:10 2001
From: ronwhite at members.evolt.org (Ron White)
Date: Fri May 25 15:22:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSL Renewals Broken in II5
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525125834.02bd2e98@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NLEFIDKBICIGONJJCMDPCEJBCHAA.ronwhite@members.evolt.org>

SP2 is out, I've installed it on my machine already...

Thanks,
Ron White 






From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 15:26:21 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 15:26:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <3B0E2644.8407.D26E8D6@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0EC086.D01BDCE2@dowebs.com>

Thanks for the authoritative response deke!! 
> 
> On 24 May 2001, at 16:48, Keith Davis posted a message which said:

> > Yeah. I can't see how you would use a meta tag to tell the browser to
> > keep a certain image, or an external javascript, or an embedded cgi
> > response out of the cache while caching the rest of the page. But,
> > sending the Pragma: no-cache header along with those page components
> > will do the trick.
> 
> Tell me how you use ANY meta tag to prevent the caching
> of only one component of the page!

That's exactly what I said. A META tag cannot do that. 

But you can keep components from being pulled from the cache based on
the LastModifiedDate of the component. That's what determines if an
external javascript or an SSI is refreshed. The problem with that is
when the js or ssi response is dynamically generated by a exe that has
not in itself been modified. 

I've used a Pragma:no-cache on the assumption that the server would
therefore not send a LastModifiedDate. With Apache, at least, the server
can control whether an ssi will be cached by the browser by not sending
a LastModifiedDate. I was hoping that Pragma:no-cache would accomplish
the same thing for non-ssi dynamic components. You say that it can't do
that though my experience was that it works, albeit unreliably from
different servers. Do you know how to keep a LastModifiedDate from being
sent for an external javascript? Hopefully without getting into the
server's config, which is not always an option.

As an alternative I've found that appending the component's file name
with a query_string such as <script src=some.cgi?_> will reliably(?)
force a dynamic js component to refresh without refreshing the entire
page.  Although I haven't had a need to use it, I'm guessing that the
component <!--#include virtual="=some.cgi?_ --> would also not be cached
since a query_string denotes a unique response.

> A big portion of the internet resides behind the AOL caching
> firewall, and it does NOT read HTML, so HTTP-EQUIV meta tags
> do not affect it. 

Interesting!! 

> > Or better, what kind of data is exchanged in a pragma request/response?

I still don't get your definition of "illegal", deke. According to your
description below, sending a Pragma:no-cache to the server would
certainly guarantee that the server is forced to send a fresh copy.
Indeed from your description it is probably the only way to force a
refresh from AOL. Doing 100mph in your BMW may be illegal, but the car
was built to run that fast. Since Pragma:no-cache works that way from
the browser, what makes it "illegal" and why does it work that way if
using it in a meta tag is "illegal". What is it "legal" for if not a
meta tag?? How does a "no-cache" directive get into a request message? 


> The Pragma general-header field is used to include implementation-
> specific directives that may apply to any recipient along the
> request/response chain. All pragma directives specify optional
> behavior from the viewpoint of the protocol; however, some systems
> may require that behavior be consistent with the directives.
> 
>     Pragma           = "Pragma" ":" 1#pragma-directive
>     pragma-directive = "no-cache" | extension-pragma
>     extension-pragma = token [ "=" word ]
> 
> When the "no-cache" directive is present in a request message, an
> application should forward the request toward the origin server even
> if it has a cached copy of what is being requested. This allows a
> client to insist upon receiving an authoritative response to its
> request. It also allows a client to refresh a cached copy which is
> known to be corrupted or stale.
> 
> Pragma directives must be passed through by a proxy or gateway
> application, regardless of their significance to that application,
> since the directives may be applicable to all recipients along the
> request/response chain. It is not possible to specify a pragma for a
> specific recipient; however, any pragma directive not relevant to a
> recipient should be ignored by that recipient.
> 

keith



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 15:33:40 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 15:33:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP, querystring question, figured it out
In-Reply-To: <20010525193744.4095.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20010525172503.95952.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525133305.02b0dc40@baratta.com>

At 12:37 PM 5/25/2001, you wrote:
><tip>
>In PHP, be sure to put ticks around your variables when passing them in a 
>query.
>
>$example = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM cars2 where vin= '$vin' " ,$db);
></tip>

FYI...

This no a PHP thing. Its an SQL thing. When you are entering "text" data in 
the where clause, you must enclose this data in '' or "". You do not have 
to do this with numerical data.


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 15:37:00 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 15:37:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSL Renewals Broken in II5
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E09@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525133456.02bd6218@baratta.com>

At 01:18 PM 5/25/2001, you wrote:
>Have you applied SP2 yet? It is out....

No - I'm afraid of SP2 right now. Not sure why - gut/emotional fear not 
logical. I applied SP1 without any qualms; don't know why I'm hesitating 
big time here.

My guess is that I'm not sure what else to apply after this in order to 
stay secure. There have been so many hotfixes lately that there are quite a 
few SP2 hotfixes that people are claiming still need to be applied after 
applying SP2.

One would think that if a hotfix is labeled SP2 you could safely ignore it. 
But No. sigh.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From lauri at subdimension.com  Fri May 25 15:40:01 2001
From: lauri at subdimension.com (Lauri Watts)
Date: Fri May 25 15:40:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
In-Reply-To: <200105251853.f4PIrf531267@leo.evolt.org>
References: <200105251853.f4PIrf531267@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200105252040.QAA15858@nitro.0wned.org>

On Friday 25 May 2001 20:52, you wrote:
> >Hmmm, YMMV there.  People who put "notepad" on a resume >don't impress me
> > at all, because notepad has no features.  >None.
>
> So you must have features in order to write/edit code?
>
> >I'm not talking about the latest wysiwyg whizz bang drag >and drop, I'm
> > talking about simple things like syntax >highlighting, indenting, maybe
> > some further features like >validation, code completion.
>
> When I began "writing code" by punching holes in cards syntax highlighting,
> indenting, and further features were awefully handy. Imagine my disdain
> when I got my hands on a text editor on a monochrome monitor.

Congratulations, you are very old and wise, maybe even older than me.  That's 
not the point though.  The point is, using tools that work against you rather 
than for you is counter-productive, and I'm all about productivity, 
especially when I'm wearing a "Do I give this person a job" hat.

> >These are things that help you work faster, because they >help you work
> > smarter.  I do the majority of my work in >SGML and XML, and the same
> > goes for those.
>
> Are SGML and XML editors? Or did you pass an incomplete idea here?

As opposed to HTML.  And I don't much care what editor I use, and I'll use 
notepad if that's what's available, although I can't think of a situation 
where it's the only choice there is.  Be as pedantic as you like, you're 
still missing my point.

> >I agree a text editor will teach you to look at your >markup in an
> > entirely different way than a wysiwyg editor, >but that should be a text
> > editor that helps you, not >hinders you.   Notepad is the editor of
> > choice for >masochists and people woh
>
> Again, an incomplete thought here? But, Notepad is the editor of choice for
> some (emphasis on 'is').

Yes, and bad editing. Shoot me, hurt me, make me finish my sentences (gosh, I 
might like that anyway.)

> >Emacs (+ psgml mode), vi, (both freely available on >platforms you've
> > probably never even heard of) or the more >traditional Windows HomeSite
> > and Mac BBEdit - those will >get my attention. Notepad on the other hand,
> > does not.
>
> How do you know that this person has not heard of UNIX or Linux or AIX or
> BSD? Homesite traditional? Notepad would be traditional as far as Windows
> is concerned as it has been in every Windows release, where Homesite (I use
> the not so fancy version of Homesite - v1.2, released about 5 years ago)has
> not been around as long.

It's been around nearly so long as the web :)

Anyway, neither HomeSite nor BBEdit will run on such various things as PDP10, 
the non IBM PC compatible "Japanese PC98" platform (shoot, I'd never heard of 
that myself until I had someone wanting to write for me and using one.  He 
manages just fine, should you care, using vi.)   

Or for that matter any of the other weird and wonderful things that people 
actually use to get their day to day work done.  Unfortunately for me, most 
of the time our work does have to be available on all these :)

Still, things like vi and emacs (and many more) are certainly available on 
platforms I'd never heard of until I looked up the list of exactly what 
they've been ported to.  No, I didn't go and do that for this discussion, I'm 
really not petty, and I'm sorry I don't couch my words in more sensitive 
terms, and all wrapped up in smileys, I'll try harder next time to remember 
that most of you don't know me.  It's not like I post very often, so that's 
my own fault I guess.

Yes Emacs has a learning curve - but I can get writers productively marking 
up DocBook (either SGML or XML) within a day or so using Emacs + PSGML, and 
that's a very much larger DTD than HTML.  People using a simpler editor take 
longer go learn their way around, and take more correction, editing and post 
submission work.   I'm talking about people who've never used any of these 
tools, but we supply them with lots of help, early support and a good cheat 
sheet of key and mouse bindings.  Oh, and the manuals, but who needs to RTFM 
when you have a real person to help you get going.  

> <tip>
> Code by hand, in any editor, anywhere, anytime. WRIRE code, code, and more
> code. Don't worry about the features, worry about the code. Learn to indent
> and comment properly, in that you will learn where to search for syntax
> errors and become more intuitive in your coding. Document and comment that
> which you have written, for someone with a fancier editor may come along
> and still not be able to discern what you have done without it...but the
> color code will sure look good. </tip>

That's more like it, even if it's a little sarcastic.

Someone else points out that they auto tab-indent, out of habit.  That's 
great, but not useful for everyone - in my environment, indenting with tabs 
is frowned upon, and we have a very strict "style guide" to stick to, 
whatever language, programming or markup, the source is in.  It takes just a 
second to reformat an aberrant file with a good editor though.  You ought to 
hear the developers whining about having to do it though.  There's one guy 
who reverts things out of a CVS repository for bad indenting, even if it's a 
perfectly good piece of programming.  That's a little over the top, and he 
gets whined at as well, but in a situation where several hundred people are 
possibly working on the same things, all with a different idea how to format 
things, that stuff happens.

Maybe you took me too personally.  It wasn't meant that way, I was just 
pointing out that "I use Notepad" is not inherently enough to get people in a 
hiring position to notice you.  

<tip type="email" author="Lauri Watts">
Don't take things said on mailing lists too personally.  Unless it says "You, 
<your name>, sir/madam, are an idiot, and your mother dresses you funny", 
it's probably not intended to mean that either.  
</tip>

-- 
Lauri, sorry that things went personal, it certainly wasn't intended, and 
considering blaming the toddler for pushing send too early.





From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 15:41:51 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 15:41:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Newbie help - targeting links
References: <OMEBLDHLGKHBFCIMLGGDMEHDCDAA.chris@completeimaging.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EC433.BAA40B53@dowebs.com>

Chris Johnston wrote:
> 
> Thank you to all, both suggestion worked perfectly. I went with a slightly
> modified version of the function code and added the ability to pass the page
> to be linked to as an argument in the function call.

In the function that opens that window include "opener=self", not all
older browsers, or Tuesday afternoon releases of IE, know they are an
opener unless told so.

keith



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri May 25 15:50:01 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri May 25 15:50:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] SSL Renewals Broken in II5
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492E0B@gate.ti3.com>

I'd strongly suggest SP2 on your domain controller, at least (how's that to
go along with your fear) --there are some memory leaks with the Active
Directory that get patched. SP2 also contains quite a few IIS fixes....

SP2 and the cumulative security hotfix released last week and I sleep quite
well =)

good luck--
sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Baratta [mailto:Anthony at Baratta.com]
> At 01:18 PM 5/25/2001, you wrote:
> >Have you applied SP2 yet? It is out....
> 
> No - I'm afraid of SP2 right now. Not sure why - 
> gut/emotional fear not 
> logical. I applied SP1 without any qualms; don't know why I'm 
> hesitating 
> big time here.
> 



From java_fella at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 15:50:56 2001
From: java_fella at yahoo.com (Thomas Granger)
Date: Fri May 25 15:50:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Royalty Free photos & sound loops
In-Reply-To: <20010525203241.DE34E5239E@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010525205132.20235.qmail@web3202.mail.yahoo.com>

I am going to be offering up a library of my own
Royalty Free images, objects, and even including some
templates and music loops for free use -- commercial
or private. (Take THAT Photodisc!)

I was originally collecting them for a project web
site called TemplateKit, but have just plain run out
of time..

The Template Kit newsletter will go out about 1 per
month & contain 20+ resources & no SPAM.

http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=5958




__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Fri May 25 16:07:31 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Fri May 25 16:07:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
References: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com> <3B0EB0C5.BDBE2001@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EC9B7.E4FE59E@nc.rr.com>

Better yet, have these outside HTTP requests hit a page that tests your servers
end-to-end.  If this page calls to the database and any other backend systems, a
well-formed response should indicate that all the boxes and their respective
services are healthy.  

Do be sure that the requestor can differentiate between a positive and negative
response.  A healthy webserver backed by a munged database will generally return
a 200, but the content of the page (error text vs. well-formed output) will tell
the story.   

These HTTP requestors are pretty easy to write.  Perhaps we can come up with set
of them in different languages (CF,PHP,ASP,etc) and deploy a community of
symmetric services, an "I'll check yours if you'll check mine" network.  Just a
thought.  

--rt


"Daniel J. Cody" wrote:
> 
> I recommend a third party system(either yours or someone elses) that
> sits on a *different* network than the one you're checking and makes X
> amount of HTTP requests a day(for webservers) This checks for network
> connectivity and for the webserver software itself being up and
> accepting requests.



From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 16:15:07 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 16:15:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
References: <ALEKICGEBAJFFOKKPDNGOELKCAAA.bheerssen@visualbridge.tv>
Message-ID: <3B0ECBFE.61195D0E@dowebs.com>

> > Just to add fluff here, InterDev uses the FP extensions to upload/manage
> > content as well. (and InterDev ain't no novice editor)

FP Extensions/Client are one of the two ways to use WebFolders, the
other being Apache's webDAV module. You also need IE5+ installed. The
FPEx/Client creates the password/protected directories (subwebs) that
Web Folders logs into.

With WebFolders you can do mass sequential file transfers through secure
SSL instead of insecure FTP. You can also do file transfers from inside
any windows app without opening anything but the open/save dialog. For
secure file transfers by someone other than the server admin, who could
use SSH FTP.

keith



From razorwise at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 16:22:22 2001
From: razorwise at yahoo.com (Sean Preston)
Date: Fri May 25 16:22:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: HomeSite Tip (was PHP, querystring question, figured it out)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525133305.02b0dc40@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <20010525212257.46296.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks, Anthony!!!

That's why the friggin' webmonkey tutorial didn't work for me.  I used text.  As usual, it's
operator error.  Grrr...Okay...I'm gonna donate a tip I found while going through the morass of
stuff....tastes great.  less filling.

<tip type=HomeSite author=Sean Preston>
With Homesite you can map directories to URLs.  While in Homesite, select Options, Settings.
Select the Browse tab. At the bottom of the dialog there is a section for server mappings. Select
'Add'. Type or browse to the path where your web files are (this is the same as the path in the
Alias directive). Then enter the URL path for that mapping ('http://localhost/mysite/'). Now hit
OK and OK again. Now when you click browse or launch external browsers from Homesite it will map
it through Apache. 
</tip>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri May 25 16:29:52 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri May 25 16:29:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
In-Reply-To: <3B0EC086.D01BDCE2@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <3B0E97C7.15686.EE2612D@localhost>

On 25 May 2001, at 14:28, Keith Davis posted a message which said:

> I still don't get your definition of "illegal", deke. According to your
> description below, sending a Pragma:no-cache to the server would
> certainly guarantee that the server is forced to send a fresh copy.

This thread is about "good practice META tags"

An http-equiv meta tag of pragma/no-cache isn't sent *to* the server,
it's sent *by* the server to a browser.

deke

------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From sfmalo at msn.com  Fri May 25 16:47:42 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Fri May 25 16:47:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
Message-ID: <001901c0e564$41436500$e6241b3f@oemcomputer>

Recently, with a lot of good advice from the group here, I did a Javascript
mouseOver/onClick script which I will now place in a remote.js file. My
question is: in which directory do I place it? Do I place it both where the
index.html file is AND the HTML directory is?

The structure I have set up is the index.html file goes in the root
directory and I have HTML and Images subdirectories.

Sure can't see the forest for the trees (again). (<8
Sharon

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From frank at loofahcom.com  Fri May 25 17:16:42 2001
From: frank at loofahcom.com (Frank)
Date: Fri May 25 17:16:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip: cfmail and linux
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010525180825.009e5420@mail>

<tip type="Work Arounds" author="Frank Marion">

Cold Fusion server 4.5.1sp2 has a bug in how it creates an email to send. 
It fails to add a carriage return before a line feed, thus will fail on 
strict email servers such as qMail.

<!--- First, set the body of the email to a variable --->
<cfset UserMail="

The body of your message goes here

with an #variables# or code that you want to include in the body of your email.

And maybe your sig.
">

<!--- Create a proper line ending--->
    <cfset LineFeed="#chr(10)#">
    <cfset CRLF="#chr(13)##chr(10)#">

<!--- Now we finally send the email to the recipient. --->
    <cfmail
           to="#UserEmail#"
           from="#RecipientEmail#"
           subject="Subject goes here"
           server="#MailServerIP#">#Replace("#UserMail#", "#LineFeed#", 
"#CRLF#", "All")##CRLF#</cfmail>


Note that there is absolutely nothing between the the start and end tag 
other than the processed body variable. If you put even a one line between 
it, this work around will fail.

Good luck!
</tip>




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 17:28:32 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri May 25 17:28:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
Message-ID: <LAW2-F97WCy7rjcxtni00000b7c@hotmail.com>

> > IE needs document.body.clientWidth.
>
>In the spirit of "Give a man a fish, feed him for a
>day, teach a man to fish and he'll never show up for
>work," how did you know it was clientWidth? Where
>should I have looked?

I knew because I once took the time to find this out once and for all. 
Published it at http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?winprop.html

And where did I learn it was clientWidth? Can't remember, too long ago. 
Maybe it was webreference.

> >Your current browser detect is incorrect, it leaves
> >out Netscape 6 and the minor browsers.
>
>heh, it's Dan Steinman's detect and is probably a few
>years out of date. No mention of IE5 in the tutorial.
>The copyright is 1998, so I don't think he's updating
>it. But it's still great for the basics.

Yep, Dan Steinman is out of date now, but quite handy sometimes.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 17:31:38 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri May 25 17:31:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Browser innerWidth for IE4/5/6?
Message-ID: <LAW2-F45ZvIPNTAbAWF00018ad3@hotmail.com>

>don't concern yourself with just the dhtml reference though.  there's *so* 
>much more documented about ie -- some stuff that's truly amazing.

Even better: the logic of msdn is increasing and things are getting easier 
to find. Or is it just that I'm getting used to it?

ppk

<TIP TYPE="nn4 and css" author="ppk">
Never ever use inline style sheets in TABLE, TR, TH and TD tags. Chances are 
that Netscape 4 will foul up the whole table completely.
</TIP>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 17:35:17 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri May 25 17:35:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] css formatting
Message-ID: <LAW2-F107IZS2TRqf690000322e@hotmail.com>


>I've got a bunch of divs that I'm positioning absolutely (or is that
>absolutely positioning).  Same old story...works fine in IE6 and Netscape 6 
>but Netscape4.7 seems to have a problem with the width property.  It works 
>fine if there's content in the div that takes up the entire width of the 
>div but not when it's smaller than the width of the div.  I want the #quote 
>and #sidepic to be exactly the same width...  Here's the CSS, any ideas?:

Add

border: none

to the style sheet. Netscape 4 needs to have a border defined to make a 
block really a block, even if the definition is that there is no border.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From navindhanuka at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 17:52:03 2001
From: navindhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Fri May 25 17:52:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Sound Loops for FLASH
Message-ID: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPCEEFCBAA.navindhanuka@yahoo.com>

Hello,

Can anyone tell me where to ind the best sound llops for flash.
I would also like to know if there are some wav editors avaiable for
download.

Thanks in advance.

Navin Dhanuka

P.S. - Has anybody tried 3D in FLASH..


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From ShaunAnderson at smarttech.com  Fri May 25 17:55:43 2001
From: ShaunAnderson at smarttech.com (Shaun M. Anderson)
Date: Fri May 25 17:55:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Changing Check Box values with JavaScript
Message-ID: <21EEE10D6F3ED511B5E10002A5511565193C55@CALMAIL1>

Howdy All.

I've been messing around with this on and off for the better part of the
day, and I'm at my wits end.

We're re-designing our corporate site, and abolishing all use of the
FrontPage Extensions (Finally!!!)

I've been charged with re-creating the forms so that the data they provide
matches the FP text files that we used to get. They need to be the same
because that's what the people who enter the data from the files into the
database want. (If you're wondering why it's done by hand at all, that's
another story altogether.)

Anyway, I'm using ASP to write the textfile on the server, and it worked
fine until I noticed that I was missing fields.  When a user doesn't check a
check box and you're using the FP extensions, the text file has a blank
field. IE) you have 6 check boxes in the same group, there would be six ""
in the text file.  We used that information as place holders, so I still
need them.

The problem is that if a user doesn't check the box, nothing is sent to the
server, so I don't know what the empty fields are and therefore can't write
them to the textfile.  My solution was to use JavaScript onSubmit to check
all of the form fields, and if they are a check box (signified by their name
ending in "!check") I would check to see if it was checked or not.  If it
wasn't checked, I would change the value to "NOTCHECKED" and set .checked to
true.  Then the ASP code checks to see if the value of the form field is
NOTCHECKED.  If it is, it just writes "" to the text file.

This is the JS code I wrote, that isn't working.  So my question is, how
come?

The error received is:

"checked" is null or not an object. (IE 5.5/Win98)

Thanks,
Shaun

function checkChoice(Form, i)
{
var NumOfFields;
var FieldName;
var NameLength;

	NumOfFields = document.Form.elements.length;
	for (i=0; i <= NumOfFields; i++)
	{
	i = 18;
	FieldName = Form[i].name;
	NameLength = FieldName.length;
		if (FieldName.substring((5, NameLength - 6)) == "!check")
		{
			if (!Form[i].checked)
			{
				Form[i].checked = true;
				Form[i].value = "NOTCHECKED";
	 		}
		}
	}
}

<tip type="ASP">
When you're brain-storming, don't do it by yourself.
Even if you're the best person available to do the job at hand, it doesn't
necessarily mean that you've got the best ideas on that particular day.
</tip>



From squid_66 at yahoo.com  Fri May 25 18:10:58 2001
From: squid_66 at yahoo.com (J J)
Date: Fri May 25 18:10:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Sound Loops for FLASH
In-Reply-To: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPCEEFCBAA.navindhanuka@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010525231131.65687.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com>

I always make my own to make sure my tracks/movies
don't sound like everyone elses.   But I have a studio
and the tools at my disposal.

What type of loops are you looking for?  Are you
looking for pay or free?


--- Navin Dhanuka <navindhanuka at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Can anyone tell me where to ind the best sound llops
> for flash.
> I would also like to know if there are some wav
> editors avaiable for
> download.
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri May 25 18:18:23 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri May 25 18:18:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Changing Check Box values with JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <21EEE10D6F3ED511B5E10002A5511565193C55@CALMAIL1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525161432.02bcc8d0@baratta.com>

How about another approach?

If you don't have too many check boxes, why not stuff them in a deliminate 
string to give ASP a list to compare against?

e.g.

On Form

[input type="hidden" name="CheckBoxList"
value="cb_one|cb_two|cb_three|cb_four"]

ASP

arrayCheckBoxList = split(Trim(Request.Form("CheckBoxList")),"|",-1,1)
for each fld in arrayCheckBoxList
	if (Trim(Request.Form(fld)) = "") then
		'' Not checked!!
	else
		'' checked!!
	end if
next
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Fri May 25 18:42:03 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Fri May 25 18:42:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: traceroutes
References: <85256A57.006AC05C.00@corpsmtpout.beaerospace.com>
Message-ID: <000201c0e574$af54a120$c187043e@r3g4p8>

> What tools do you all recommend for checking your servers?

http://uptime.arsdigita.com/uptime/about.tcl

free, check one file every 15 mins and sends email if something goes wrong.

Philippe




From doshea at surfree.com  Fri May 25 18:53:33 2001
From: doshea at surfree.com (Daniel S. O'Shea)
Date: Fri May 25 18:53:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
In-Reply-To: <001901c0e564$41436500$e6241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINCEJDCCAA.doshea@surfree.com>

As I use include files and .js files, I create an include directory and a js
directory. That way, when I need to change anything, I know in what
directory to go. Also, knowing I have those directories, I never have to
wonder what my 'path' is to those files when dealing with larger sites.

DanO

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of sfmalo
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 5:47 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
>
>
> Recently, with a lot of good advice from the group here, I did a
> Javascript
> mouseOver/onClick script which I will now place in a remote.js file. My
> question is: in which directory do I place it? Do I place it both
> where the
> index.html file is AND the HTML directory is?
>
> The structure I have set up is the index.html file goes in the root
> directory and I have HTML and Images subdirectories.
>
> Sure can't see the forest for the trees (again). (<8
> Sharon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> Sharon F. Malone
> "web design and Internet writing services"
> http://www.24caratdesign.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From TheEnigma at web-side.com  Fri May 25 19:13:53 2001
From: TheEnigma at web-side.com (John Sampson)
Date: Fri May 25 19:13:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Sound Loops for FLASH
In-Reply-To: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPCEEFCBAA.navindhanuka@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CMEOJHBFADGKPJIALJOEGEDHCAAA.TheEnigma@web-side.com>

Easy - www.flashkit.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Navin Dhanuka
Sent: 25 May 2001 22:53
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Sound Loops for FLASH


Hello,

Can anyone tell me where to ind the best sound llops for flash.
I would also like to know if there are some wav editors avaiable for
download.

Thanks in advance.

Navin Dhanuka

P.S. - Has anybody tried 3D in FLASH..


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From ShaunAnderson at smarttech.com  Fri May 25 19:37:48 2001
From: ShaunAnderson at smarttech.com (Shaun M. Anderson)
Date: Fri May 25 19:37:48 2001
Subject: [fwd] RE: [thelist] Changing Check Box values with JavaScript
Message-ID: <000dc0737001a51BUNSON@bunson.webservepro.com>

---------------------------------------------
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is being manually forwarded by a list admin.
Please remember to send emails in plain-text
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type application/ms-tnef. Please do not send attachments to thelist]


Well, there are about 200 forms to be changed, so I'd rather not type in
each field for each form ;-)

But, is there a way that I could create that list of form-fields with
JavaScript?  What would this look like?

Then I could send that to the ASP page.  Since we're changing the whole
design of the pages it wouldn't kill me to insert the same JS code over
and
over again.

Thanks,
Shaun

(I keep promising myself that I'm going to sit down and learn JS like I
did
with ASP, but I always seem to put it off... )

<snip>
> How about another approach?
>
> If you don't have too many check boxes, why not stuff them in a
deliminate
>
> string to give ASP a list to compare against?
</snip>




From Evolt at ZName.com  Fri May 25 20:22:09 2001
From: Evolt at ZName.com (James S. Huggins)
Date: Fri May 25 20:22:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
References: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINKEILCCAA.doshea@surfree.com>
Message-ID: <02d701c0e582$e566c280$eff5fea9@ita.sel.sony.com>

>>>To run FP, you must use their extensions.
>>>They allow the full features that come with Frontpage.
>>>Any and all references that run 'webbots' like 'hover' links
>>>and such need these extensions.
>>>Uploading needs these extensions.
>>>To run the FP Database wizard needs these extensions.

To clarify slightly, it is possible to use FrontPage only as an authoring
tool.

In this case the author would avoid the 4 or 5 special FrontPage features
that require FrontPage Server Extensions.

In this case uploading with FTP would not present any problem.

And, in this case, the server would not need to even have installed the
FrontPage Server Extensions.


James S. Huggins
http://www.JamesSHuggins.com






From fayec at canada.com  Fri May 25 22:47:30 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Fri May 25 22:47:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
Message-ID: <3B0F2771.F74408E6@canada.com>

Hi,

I would like to know if it's possible to have a customized Thank you
page with forms using premade cgi scripts (yahoo/geocities) and if so
how can this be implemented?

Thank you in advance,

FayeC



From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 23:20:00 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 23:20:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Changing Check Box values with JavaScript
References: <21EEE10D6F3ED511B5E10002A5511565193C55@CALMAIL1>
Message-ID: <3B0F2F9D.8242DCE5@dowebs.com>

"Shaun M. Anderson" wrote:

> 
> function checkChoice(Form, i)
> {
> var NumOfFields;
> var FieldName;
> var NameLength;
> 
>         NumOfFields = document.Form.elements.length;
>         for (i=0; i <= NumOfFields; i++)
>         {
>         i = 18;
>         FieldName = Form[i].name;
>         NameLength = FieldName.length;
>                 if (FieldName.substring((5, NameLength - 6)) == "!check")
>                 {
>                         if (!Form[i].checked)
>                         {
>                                 Form[i].checked = true;
>                                 Form[i].value = "NOTCHECKED";
>                         }
>                 }
>         }
> }

Looks to me like you're on the right track plan wise. I think you're
just trying to make it harder than it is. This will do it:

function checkChoice(Form)
{
 for (i=0; i < Form.elements.length; ++i)
 {
   if (Form.elements[i].type == "checkbox")
   {
     if (Form.elements[i].checked == false)
       {
        Form.elements[i].checked = true;
        Form.elements[i].value = "NOTCHECKED";
       }
   }
 }
}

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 23:26:40 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 23:26:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] good practice META tags?
References: <3B0E97C7.15686.EE2612D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0F312C.7B235CF2@dowebs.com>

deke wrote:

> This thread is about "good practice META tags"

You're right. 

Which is why I'm pointing out that putting cache controlling directives,
either the expire, pragma, or cache-control type, in meta tags is not a
"good practice". They don't belong there except as a last resort or on
static pages where the expire date should be next year. 

The fact is, servers routinely send "Pragma:no-cache" and/or "Expires:
-1" headers to keep dynamic or frequently changing "resources" (not just
pages) out of the cache. 

<% Response.AddHeader "Pragma", "No-Cache" %> for ASP, 
print "Pragma: no-cache\n"; for Perl,
pragma no-cache in an htaccess directive works for PHP & SSI

The Pragma: no-cache and Expires: -1 mean exactly the same to browsers
(If the connection is secure do not cache at all, if it is unsecure
cache it only until the domain changes or the browser is closed - then
remove). The two mean different things to proxies and caching servers,
pragma forces a proxie or caching server to refresh while Expires: -1
does not explicitly force a refresh.

The only thing "illegal" about the Pragma, as a meta tag header or a
server header, is that IEFT forgot to write the damned response
specification, but every request *has* a response by definition. That
screwup on IEFT's part did not prevent server and browser manufacturers
from codifying amongst themselves how that response works. 

I apologize for not fully answering this when it first was asked:

>Can you name *any* circumstance in which the illegal "pragma" 
>header works and these headers don't?
><META HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">

Yes, every time you use IE 4 or 5! IE *does* indeed know what to do with 
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache"> or a Pregma: no-cache
header but does *not* even recognize Cache-Control in a meta tag,
completely ignores it. Cache-Control is a header sent from the server
and has no place in a meta tag according to IE. Quote from
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q234/0/67.ASP

"Cache-Control META HTTP-EQUIV tags are ignored and have no effect in"
"Internet Explorer versions 4 or 5. To use Cache-Control this header"
"must be specified using HTTP headers as described in the"
"Cache-Control section above." (which describes the ASP header <%
Response.CacheControl = "no-cache" %>)

The main point is, using meta tags for cache control is not "good"
practice. By using server headers you can not only control the caching
of pages, reliably, but any component resource on the page.

keith



From web at master.gen.in.us  Fri May 25 23:41:05 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Fri May 25 23:41:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
In-Reply-To: <3B0F2771.F74408E6@canada.com>
Message-ID: <3B0EFCDA.26041.106D438C@localhost>

On 25 May 2001, at 23:48, Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (Fay posted a message which said:

> I would like to know if it's possible to have a customized Thank you
> page with forms using premade cgi scripts (yahoo/geocities) and if so
> how can this be implemented?

CGI scripts, premade or otherwise, do whatever the script does.
You need to look at the documentation (or better yet, the script
itself) in order to know what the script does. 

deke





------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Fri May 25 23:45:15 2001
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Fri May 25 23:45:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for May 25, 2001
Message-ID: <200105260445.XAA10518@poet.oracular.com>

evolt.org headlines for May 25, 2001

Cold Fusion Master needed in Washington DC  by: ahendricks
http://evolt.org/article/headlines/23/10694/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From cache at dowebs.com  Fri May 25 23:49:40 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Fri May 25 23:49:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
References: <001901c0e564$41436500$e6241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B0F3690.9A0F6B21@dowebs.com>

sfmalo wrote:
> 
> Recently, with a lot of good advice from the group here, I did a Javascript
> mouseOver/onClick script which I will now place in a remote.js file. My
> question is: in which directory do I place it? Do I place it both where the
> index.html file is AND the HTML directory is?
> 
> The structure I have set up is the index.html file goes in the root
> directory and I have HTML and Images subdirectories.
> 

Theoretically you can place them anywhere within your domain or even
some other domain. 

But, I assume this is your first shot at external js files on that
server. You need to make sure the server has the
application/x-javascript mime type so it will deliver the file. If it
isn't, or if it has restrictions you can lose time, spouse, and sanity
trying to figure out what's wrong. (not necessarily in that order)

Best to first place it in the root with index.html (assuming that the
script is called by index.html) and reference it with the full URL. If
that works then the mime is installed. Then you want to make sure that
the server has no restrictions. Try it with only the file name instead
of the URL. If that works then move it to any other directory and use a
relative path to reference it. If that works everything is OK. 

> Sure can't see the forest for the trees (again). 

Forest? What forest. There's legs on the worms in the apples in the
trees, but forest? is there a forest here??

keith



From fayec at canada.com  Sat May 26 00:26:01 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sat May 26 00:26:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
References: <3B0EFCDA.26041.106D438C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0F3E84.13EB7A59@canada.com>

So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
geocities...)?
Just as an example:
http://www.geocities.com/fayetarzwell_a4/store.html
This is a school assignment. Not fancy, just a way to learn how JS can
be used in low security order pages.
The "store" itself works fine and the confirmation page has form
validation and all but I would like to send the user to a thank you page
after they confirm the order.
I tried some workarounds but when the redirection to the thank you page
worked the forma validation didn't...
Any way I can have both?

Thanks again,

FayeC

deke wrote:
> 
> On 25 May 2001, at 23:48, Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (Fay posted a message which said:
> 
> > I would like to know if it's possible to have a customized Thank you
> > page with forms using premade cgi scripts (yahoo/geocities) and if so
> > how can this be implemented?
> 
> CGI scripts, premade or otherwise, do whatever the script does.
> You need to look at the documentation (or better yet, the script
> itself) in order to know what the script does.
> 
> deke
> 
> ------------------------
>  "The church is near but the road is icy;
>   the bar is far away but I will walk carefully."
>                             -- Russian Proverb
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From siim_e at pshg.edu.ee  Sat May 26 02:01:36 2001
From: siim_e at pshg.edu.ee (Siim Einfeldt aka Itpunk)
Date: Sat May 26 02:01:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] It magazine
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105260901010.1399-100000@pshg.edu.ee>

Hi,

I just started to build an online IT magazine again and now I would like
to get your opinion, what content would You like to see there? I want to
make it as good as possible, but for that I will need some information
about your needs-interests.
PS: The magazine will be free for all and everyone who is interested in
helping to do it (content included), are welcome to get in touch as well.

Thank you
Siim EInfeldt






From gb at inetwire.com  Sat May 26 02:08:10 2001
From: gb at inetwire.com (Gerd Baumann)
Date: Sat May 26 02:08:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: Sound Loops for FLASH
References: <20010526052828.384C6C94@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B0F55B2.EB89CCDC@inetwire.com>

> Can anyone tell me where to ind the best sound llops for flash.

http://www.findsounds.com

Best,
--
Gerd





From persist1 at io.com  Sat May 26 03:31:51 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sat May 26 03:31:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: [offlist] OT: KABOOOOOOM (explosions are cool)
In-Reply-To: <01c0e54e$d14454e0$524b149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105260328120.4830-100000@fnord.io.com>

On Fri, 25 May 2001, rudy wrote:

> (assuming you aren't a drag-and-drop afficionado), put a shortcut to your
> editor(s) in the Send To folder, then right-click the file in windows
> explorer...

I am a drag-and-drop afficionado, however.

> works great on other file types, too -- for example, if i just want to
> quickly grab the dimensions of an image while writing my img tag, i'll
> often just send the image to netscape 3 and read the dimensions off the
> title bar...

This is admittedly a feature that I wish was supported by IE.

Since I've already got Windows Explorer open, I drag the image into
IrfanView to accomplish the same result.

'Course, I hate mucking with file types in general.

In regard to the original thread - the goal to keep in mind should be
FUNDAMENTALS.

It's eight in the morning.  Do you know what your code is doing?

The rest is all gravy.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sat May 26 08:14:38 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sat May 26 08:14:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105260328120.4830-100000@fnord.io.com>
Message-ID: <B734FA65.3E02%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

A client just requested that we come up with a way to verify a credit card,
on submission of an order form. The way it was described to us, they don't
need to actually charge the card for the order, just verify that the number
is valid and it's not over the credit limit.

I've already written a PHP program to process the orders into a file that
they will import into their main business database (which is Flexware, on
Macintosh). By the time the database gets the info, it assumes the card has
already been verified; that's why they want the back-end code to do the
verification.

I guess what I need is to connect to a CC authorization service. Can I do
this through my own PHP script or do we need to go some other route? Thanks
for any pointers...

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From robin at rhastings.net  Sat May 26 09:18:33 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin)
Date: Sat May 26 09:18:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
In-Reply-To: <3B0F3E84.13EB7A59@canada.com>
Message-ID: <NCEBIEHEOEIFPHPBMDJCOEFDCDAA.robin@rhastings.net>

> So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> geocities...)?
> Just as an example:
> http://www.geocities.com/fayetarzwell_a4/store.html
> This is a school assignment. Not fancy, just a way to learn how JS can
> be used in low security order pages.
> The "store" itself works fine and the confirmation page has form
> validation and all but I would like to send the user to a thank you page
> after they confirm the order.
> I tried some workarounds but when the redirection to the thank you page
> worked the forma validation didn't...
> Any way I can have both?
>
> Thanks again,

If I recall correctly, there is no way to change Geocities CGI forms, but
you can go to http://www.cgi-resources.com and see the remotely hosted
section. There are lots of people who will allow you to use their scripts
(and modify them to include a redirect to a thank you page) in return for a
small advertisement on your pages. HTH

Robin Hastings
Webmistress - InterTec Designs
http://www.intertecdesigns.com
robin at intertecdesigns.com




From web at master.gen.in.us  Sat May 26 10:04:09 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sat May 26 10:04:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] It magazine
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105260901010.1399-100000@pshg.edu.ee>
Message-ID: <3B0F8EDD.11045.12A7B29A@localhost>

On 26 May 2001, at 9:01, Siim Einfeldt aka Itpunk posted a message which said:

> I just started to build an online IT magazine again and now I would like
> to get your opinion, what content would You like to see there? I want to
> make it as good as possible, but for that I will need some information
> about your needs-interests.

The *last* thing you want to be is an "IT" magazine.
Narrow your focus, so you have a halfway decent chance of doing
a good job. 

If you focus on web technologies, that's a dramatic improvement, 
but still awfully broad.

If you focus on webserver technology, that's a dramatic improvement,
but still fairly broad.

If you focus on Apache, that's a dramatic improvement, but still
broad.

If you focus on mod_rewrite, then you have an appropriate level of
concentration. Lots of people are interested in the rewrite engine,
and while there's enough meat there to provide plenty of content for 
your zine, it's something you could reasonably become authoritative
about.

That's not to say mod_rewrite is *the* thing you ought to focus on. 
Maybe you want to focus on managing IT people - or managing IT
careers. Maybe you want to focus on CPAN modules, or SQL.

But whatever you choose as your focus, if you are to have *any* 
hope of success, you need to get people enthused about your zine, 
and the way to do that is to exhibit excellence. Musicians who are
intent on being famous and acquiring groupies rarely succeed; those
who have great music within them, just bursting to be released, are
much more likely to become famous and acquire groupies.

When you can define your magazine's purpose with passion, then
you are ready to proceed, not before. People *like* to be associated 
with excellence, whether as providers or consumers. As Zig Ziglar 
would put it, your zine needs to be a meaningful specific, not a 
wandering generality.

And that applies to *all* websites, BTW.

deke





------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From web at master.gen.in.us  Sat May 26 10:12:28 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sat May 26 10:12:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
In-Reply-To: <3B0F3E84.13EB7A59@canada.com>
Message-ID: <3B0F90BF.3162.12AF0DFE@localhost>

On 26 May 2001, at 1:26, Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (Fay posted a message which said:

> So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> geocities...)?

The form calls the CGI script. 

The CGI script either dynamically generates the HTML of the next
page, or else it spews a Location: header, which sends you to 
another URL.

If you cannot *edit* this script, and you cannot use a *different*
script, then you have to live with the capabilities of *this* script.

You know what RTFM means?  If your instructor teaches you 
*anything*, it should be this: "when all else fails, read the 
instructions."

deke










------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From fayec at canada.com  Sat May 26 10:17:23 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sat May 26 10:17:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
References: <3B0F90BF.3162.12AF0DFE@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B0FC92B.94C85AD9@canada.com>

Hi Deke,

I am not learning CGI...this project is in JS and the Thank you page is
just an idea I had to improve the page but can't seem to incorporate in
the JS script.
What I would really like to find out is if there is any way I can modify
my JS script to include a n <a href> to the thank you note after the
form has been validated and the information sent....

FayeC

deke wrote:
> 
> On 26 May 2001, at 1:26, Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (Fay posted a message which said:
> 
> > So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> > you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> > geocities...)?
> 
> The form calls the CGI script.
> 
> The CGI script either dynamically generates the HTML of the next
> page, or else it spews a Location: header, which sends you to
> another URL.
> 
> If you cannot *edit* this script, and you cannot use a *different*
> script, then you have to live with the capabilities of *this* script.
> 
> You know what RTFM means?  If your instructor teaches you
> *anything*, it should be this: "when all else fails, read the
> instructions."
> 
> deke
> 
> ------------------------
>  "The church is near but the road is icy;
>   the bar is far away but I will walk carefully."
>                             -- Russian Proverb
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From markgroen at telus.net  Sat May 26 11:53:39 2001
From: markgroen at telus.net (Mark Groen)
Date: Sat May 26 11:53:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B734FA65.3E02%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <00a301c0e604$5b223500$bb81e8d8@telus.net>

An overview of the basics of credit card verification:
http://www.webdevelopersjournal.com/articles/card_fraud.html
There's quite a few php scripts out there I think for simply verifying the
numbers - an example:
http://php.resourceindex.com/detail/00597.html
You can make sure it is a well formed number client side also with
javascript:
http://javascript.internet.com/forms/val-credit-card.html

<snip>
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles F. Johnson
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Sent: May 26, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation


A client just requested that we come up with a way to verify a credit card,
on submission of an order form. The way it was described to us, they don't
need to actually charge the card for the order, just verify that the number
is valid and it's not over the credit limit.

I've already written a PHP program to process the orders into a file that
they will import into their main business database (which is Flexware, on
Macintosh). By the time the database gets the info, it assumes the card has
already been verified; that's why they want the back-end code to do the
verification.

I guess what I need is to connect to a CC authorization service. Can I do
this through my own PHP script or do we need to go some other route? Thanks
for any pointers...

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com

</snip>





From sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk  Sat May 26 12:34:34 2001
From: sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk (Sabrina Dent, Apperception)
Date: Sat May 26 12:34:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
References: <20010526052828.5D5A5CA4@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001101c0e6d2$a1e78840$edea7bd5@sabrina>

> So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> geocities...)?

Yes, it does. The page you are directed to after your order is:

a) generated by the GeoCities cgi-bin
b) not within your webspace
c) not controlled by you

You are stuck with it if you choose to use GeoCitites forms.

--Bri




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sat May 26 12:52:14 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sat May 26 12:52:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <00a301c0e604$5b223500$bb81e8d8@telus.net>
Message-ID: <B7353B81.3E3A%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Mark Groen <markgroen at telus.net> typed:

> An overview of the basics of credit card verification:
> http://www.webdevelopersjournal.com/articles/card_fraud.html
> There's quite a few php scripts out there I think for simply verifying the
> numbers - an example:
> http://php.resourceindex.com/detail/00597.html
> You can make sure it is a well formed number client side also with
> javascript:
> http://javascript.internet.com/forms/val-credit-card.html

Thanks, Mark; but we need to do more than simply run the LUHN algorithm. I
guess what I'm looking for is information about connecting to a payment
service like Cybercash or authorize.net, using our own hand-rolled script
instead of a pre-packaged shopping cart.

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Sat May 26 13:01:55 2001
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Sat May 26 13:01:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion - 2 dimensional array sort
Message-ID: <20010526180230.84472.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have a 2d array like this:

<cfset arr[1][1] = "30">
<cfset arr[1][2] = "text text">

<cfset arr[2][1] = "14">
<cfset arr[2][2] = "text text">

<cfset arr[3][1] = "25">
<cfset arr[3][2] = "text text">

OUPUT WHEN LOOPING THROUGH:
30 - text text
14 - text text
25 - text text

Now I want to sort the array using the first element in the second
"dimension" (if that's what you call it)... that is, using the numeric
value. So the output when looping throught is this:

14 - text text
25 - text text
30 - text text

So the ENTIRE array element arr[#] is sorted using arr[#][1]. Make
sense? I've been trying different things and keep getting errors.

Thanks,
Jon.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From fayec at canada.com  Sat May 26 14:28:21 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sat May 26 14:28:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
References: <20010526052828.5D5A5CA4@relay.evolt.org> <001101c0e6d2$a1e78840$edea7bd5@sabrina>
Message-ID: <3B1003F8.957B4C2C@canada.com>

The form was not created by geocities. I made it. The JS script used the
mail script from geocities to send our the confirmation...
I was wondering if there is any way to implement that on the JS. I tried
it but when I succeeded on sending the person to a Thank you page the
form would not validade or send the order out...


"Sabrina Dent, Apperception" wrote:
> 
> > So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> > you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> > geocities...)?
> 
> Yes, it does. The page you are directed to after your order is:
> 
> a) generated by the GeoCities cgi-bin
> b) not within your webspace
> c) not controlled by you
> 
> You are stuck with it if you choose to use GeoCitites forms.
> 
> --Bri
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From peter at vardus.com  Sat May 26 14:50:00 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Sat May 26 14:50:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <20010526180230.84472.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010526204541.00e1c880@mail.vardus.net>

Hi,
I'm uploading .htaccess files to apache. I renamed then htaccess.txt, 
uploaded and then renamed .htaccess again (using cuteFTP).
But they don't seem to be there (they contain rewrite directives). Or else 
mod_rewrite isn't on on that server. How can I find that out? (I got 
(limited) command line access)
Thanks all!
Peter

<tip>
When discovering a new toy (databases, XML, objects, ...), resist doing 
*everything* in them. It often isn't nessecary. Then again, if you really 
want to go ahead :)
</tip>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From peter at vardus.com  Sat May 26 14:56:00 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Sat May 26 14:56:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20010526204541.00e1c880@mail.vardus.net>
References: <20010526180230.84472.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010526205331.026f2a60@mail.vardus.net>

>But they don't seem to be there (they contain rewrite directives).

I know coz I get a forbidden server error (there are no files in the 
directory, just the htaccess file)
Any hints?
Peter

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From alligotar at gmx.net  Sat May 26 15:53:57 2001
From: alligotar at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=)
Date: Sat May 26 15:53:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
References: <20010526180230.84472.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.2.20010526205331.026f2a60@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <3B1017FF.D00F2552@gmx.net>

Peter:

> >But they don't seem to be there (they contain rewrite directives).
> 
> I know coz I get a forbidden server error (there are no files in the
> directory, just the htaccess file)
> Any hints?

This sounds like you have something misspelled in your .htaccess. I
wanted to my client's server to use files called index.html and
index.shtml as default file and uploaded my .htaccess. After that I
tried to connect to that site and got also a 500 Internal. I asked the
boss of my client's ISP what was going. He told me that a  command was
misspelled.

HTH,

Jakob D?lling
^-- 
To Unix or not to Unix. That is the question whether 'tis nobler in the
mind to suffer slings and arrows of vast documentation or to take arms
against a sea of buggy OS and by raping the support lines end then?
;>

Contact:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/Jakob D?lling     \/EMail:     mailto:alligott at yahoo.com      \/
<>Treuerzipfel 13   <>ICQ #:     47326203                       <>
/\D-38678 Clausthal /\ICQ pager: mailto:47326203 at pager.icq.com  /\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\Webmaster of http://www.bank-ic.de/                           /\
\/--------------------------------------------------------------\/



From mlovitt at oaksanderson.com  Sat May 26 16:20:02 2001
From: mlovitt at oaksanderson.com (Michael Lovitt)
Date: Sat May 26 16:20:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web design presentation process
In-Reply-To: <20010526053222.00D9A523B5@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <DIENIJNCGNGKGDGLPMLEOEDHCJAA.mlovitt@oaksanderson.com>

I'm writing an article on how to improve the Web design
process, specifically, on the best way to present creative
to clients. Some of the issues I'm addressing are: keeping
things like content and site architecture separate from look
and feel; presenting interactive elements like animation and
roll-overs; and conveying how the site will look after it's
been translated into HTML on various browsers and platforms
and at various screen resolutions.

I'd love to hear about how you deal with these and other
issues, and what your presentation process is like in
general: does your look and feel presentation include just a
home page and a secondary page? Do you present as Acrobats
or GIFs, or something else? What are the major milestones?
Will you make design changes after programming has begun?
And so on.

Also, one reason I'm writing this article is that I've never
seen this issue addressed in much detail in the Web design
and project management books and articles I've read. But if
you have, please let me know.

Thanks so much,

Michael




From cache at dowebs.com  Sat May 26 17:08:33 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sat May 26 17:08:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B734FA65.3E02%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B102A0C.83C509EA@dowebs.com>

"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> A client just requested that we come up with a way to verify a credit card,
> on submission of an order form. The way it was described to us, they don't
> need to actually charge the card for the order, just verify that the number
> is valid and it's not over the credit limit.

> any pointers...

Some of this may be inappropriate for this client, but once you've done
an e-commerce site you'll have new skills and this probably wont be your
last one.

You will need to have a merchant account. I doubt that any of the credit
card gateways provide validation for just anyone without a valid
merchant account. The gateway and the merchant account ISO are possibly
still going to charge your client, probably 35 to 50 cents per
validation. This is not like doing it through the card swipe in the
store as there are intermediaries involved.

Make sure the advice you are getting is applicable. All web transactions
must use a money-order/telephone-order type merchant account. It is
illegal to use a regular over-the-counter type of account for web
transactions. A MO/TO account typically has two stages, the amount of
the sale is first "booked" meaning that the amount is removed from the
card's open-to-buy limit and put on 30 day hold for your account. The
second stage is where you "capture" the amount by actually charging the
card. It is illegal to "capture" the transaction until after the product
has been physically shipped. I've not tried to get a simple validation
with a MO/TO since that is not part of the flow of a MO/TO transaction.
You'll have to try it. But it will probably set off a red flag at VISA
Merchant Services.

That said, be sure that the advice you are getting is not referring to a
"booking" on a MO/TO account. That stage is indeed free and does
validate the card and the limit, but it also reduces the card's balance
for 30 days or until you void the "booking". Over-the-counter types of
accounts can do a validation-only where the amount is not "booked". 
But, you cannot later "charge" the card with that kind of account for
that sale since that sale is tainted, it originated on the web. That's
what that red flag will be looking for. If your client plans to later
charge the customer, without the customer being physically present at
the time of the charge, your client will need to use a second, separate
MO/TO account and treat the charging as a totally different transaction.
Why do you need to know this? There's the likelihood of more billable
work for you if you do it the "right" way. And if you don't do it the
"right" way you could be liable, you are legally the "expert". See next
to last paragraph.

After reading the following you may want to reconsider doing the
"validation" in live-time. The alternative being to write the
transaction to your server, recall it later through a secure browser,
and process as a batch via credit card gateway software (ICVerify or
MacAuthorize/PCAuthorize) or through a "Virtual Terminal", and THEN
export as a batch to your Flexware database. (Check to make certain
ICVerify or MacAuthorize/PCAuthorize will do a simple validation, I've
never need to know)

As for getting a "live-time" connection with a credit card gateway, you
cannot do this directly across the web. The processors are not connected
to the web. Netscape developed the LivePayment protocol to connect
server to server with First Data's gateway. It failed and was abandoned.
Microsoft also abandoned work on a web-only gateway protocol. VISA/IBM
has pretty much abandoned their S.E.T protocol.  As a result, gateways
are still connected to via regular phone connections, not via tcp/ip.
You therefore must do one of the following for "live-transactions":

1) dial out from your server directly to the gateway via a land-line
modem while holding the web part of your "transaction" in limbo. RedHat
has this feature embedded in ver.7.  MacAuthorize/PCAuthorize has a
server hub version that can also do this.

2) have a merchant account with a bank that has a web server internally
networked with their gateway (B of A, Wells Fargo and some others offer
such accounts).

3) pay an extra transaction charge to someone who provides the service
described in 1. You connect via server-to-server or browser-to-server
with this third party, they do the gateway connection and return the
results. There are many companies that do this. Most of them make their
real money selling merchant accounts and use the connectivity as a
come-on so pay close attention to what you or your client signs up for
when dealing with them. Some of them were pimps and loan sharks in
earlier lives. Many of these third parties are resellers for
authorize.net. Do an "authorize.net reseller" search at google.com to
get a flood of links. Some of these offer the "Virtual Terminal"
mentioned above that lets you do a non-live-time single, or batch,
transaction authorization through a web page on their gateway server.

As for using your PHP script. If you are going the RedHat route there is
a PHP built for that and I believe it can be found through RedHat (I
don't use PHP so I'm not sure where to find it). 

If you are connecting via a bank or third party they will give you the
instructions on the data that you will need to pass on to them (usually
only the total and your order number). Usually you need to capture the
ordered items, quantities, tax, and shipping info on your server, then
redirect the browser to their server. They present the SSL payment page
which takes the cardholder's info, processes the transaction, and then
redirects to a success page on your server. Some of the third parties
require that the redirect goes to a perl script or java servlet that
they provide and you install on your server to guarantee the
authenticity of the success (CyberCash is an example). Either way, the
redirect has to not only tell the customer that the transaction was
successful, but also link up with the transaction data that you saved
and mark it as a success or deny. You may have trouble finding one of
these that will do a "validation-only" since that involves sending
different processing codes than the normal MO/TO codes.

Most important of all, try to talk with your client's merchant account
issuer (usually his bank). If your client doesn't want you talking to
his merchant account issuer (and that's understandable), get him to sign
a "hold harmless" statement that explicitly exempts you from the
responsibility to advise your client regarding banking and merchant
account regulations. That should be a standard part of every e-commerce
contract. But, consulting with the account issuer is strongly advised
because they can probably tell you how best to connect. And will surely
tell you whether it is even legal for you to do so or not based on the
terms of the merchant account. 

keith

P.S. Along the way you will see unusual long field names being used on
forms for things like cardholder's name and address. Copy and keep them
for future use in your own forms. They are global banking standard field
names and will be in use longer than HTML will. I understand that W3C
has adopted them as standard XML field names should someone figure out
how to do all this with XML.



From joshua at alphashop.net  Sat May 26 17:43:53 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
Date: Sat May 26 17:43:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion - 2 dimensional array sort
References: <20010526180230.84472.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c0e635$beb93d80$38360141@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

You could handcode a sorting algorithm and apply it to your arrays:

http://al.ei.tuat.ac.jp/~sekisita/algoanim-e.html

http://www.scism.sbu.ac.uk/law/Section5/chap2/s5c2p13.html

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ah/alg_anim/gawain-4.0/BubbleSort.html

Other people have implemented this using a struct instead of an array and
apply the structsort method.  Here's a siplet from the help file:

StructSort(Base [, PathToSubElement, SortOrder, SortType])

StructSort was added in ColdFusion 4.5.1, SP2. StructSort returns an array
of structures containing top-level key names (strings) sorted according to
the value of the specified sub-element. The value of the keys may be simple
values or complex elements.

Base
A ColdFusion struct with one field (an associative array).

PathToSubElement
Specifies the path to apply to each of the top-level keys in order to reach
the element whose value you wish to sort by. If unspecified,
PathToSubElement, defaults to nothing: meaning that the top-level entries
will be sorted based on their own values.

SortOrder
SortOrder may be "ASC" (ascending) or "DESC" (descending). The default is
"ASC."

SortType
SortType may be "NUMERIC", "TEXT", or "TEXTNOCASE". The default is "TEXT."

The PathToSubElement string does not support array notation so only
substructures of structures are supported.


Good luck,
-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "jon steele" <jjsteele22 at yahoo.com>

: Now I want to sort the array using the first element in the second
: "dimension" (if that's what you call it)... that is, using the numeric
: value. So the output when looping throught is this:





From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sat May 26 18:04:53 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sat May 26 18:04:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <3B102A0C.83C509EA@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <B73584C8.3E7D%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

That was much more detail than I had any right to expect. Thanks, keith.

So would I be correct in stating that our client's request is at least
unusual, and maybe even impossible/illegal? That's what I thought when they
presented it to us, to be honest...

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From cache at dowebs.com  Sat May 26 18:18:08 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sat May 26 18:18:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] JS form
References: <20010526052828.5D5A5CA4@relay.evolt.org> <001101c0e6d2$a1e78840$edea7bd5@sabrina>
Message-ID: <3B103A5E.B6AA3284@dowebs.com>

> > So does it mean that there is no way I can make my form display a thank
> > you page unless I change the cgi-script (not possible as it is
> > geocities...)?
> 

Well.... technically yeah. But it's still doable if you're really
desperate. 

You just have to be willing to trick your visitor into thinking that the
custom thank you page is a result of their form being received at the
server. If you assume that the cgi does indeed do it's part, then the
visitor's submission button click can generate the thankyou page instead
of the cgi.

Here's how: Use frames. <frameset rows="100%,*"> will create a hidden
frame. Let's name the two frames "vis" and "hid".

The vis frame gets a page displaying the form and a <input type=button
value="submit" onclick="move(this.form)"> for a submit button. Remove
the method and action from the form tag. The hidden page also has a form
but all of the fields have type="hidden". Both pages have exactly the
same fields named exactly the same and in exactly the same sequence,
except that the hidden form has no submitting button. The form tag on
the hidden page has the appropriate method and action, it's the one that
gets submitted, vis does not get submitted.

Then, since you want to customize the thankyou page, you need to add a
script block above the frames statements on the frameset page. Enter
variables for each value you want to capture. Let's assume two of your
form fields are named userName and userCity:

<script>
userName=""
userCity=""
</script>

Put this javascript function on the visible page

function move(Form){
for(i=0;i<top.hid.document.forms[0].length;++i){
top.hid.document.forms[0].elements[i].value=
Form.elements[i].value
}
top.userName=Form.userName.value
top.userCity=Form.userCity.value
top.hid.document.forms[0].submit()
location = "thankyou.html"
}

So, we've moved the visitor's input from the visible page to a hidden
page, captured the values we want on the thankyou page, submitted the
form, and called a third page, "thankyou.html". In thankyou.html's body
use

<script>document.write(top.userName)</script> 
to display the user's name and 

<script>document.write(top.userCity)</script>
to display their city.

Oh yeah, the cgi's return, it ended up on the hid frame so don't worry
about it. 

Be polite, if you have any links on your thankyou page be sure to use <a
href=some.html target=_top> to get them out of your frameset.

Mind you, DO NOT use a hack like this on a mission critical submission
because the visitor really has no guarantee that the cgi results page
indicated that the form was accepted. For that reason, you should do as
full a form input validation as you can in the move() function while
doing the for loop. 

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sat May 26 21:06:40 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sat May 26 21:06:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B73584C8.3E7D%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B1061DE.707752FC@dowebs.com>

"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:

> So would I be correct in stating that our client's request is at least
> unusual, and maybe even impossible/illegal? That's what I thought when they
> presented it to us, to be honest...

LOL

It's unusual and possibly illegal is correct. But that really depends on
the why and what of their proposal. Could you give us a hint as to why
they need to validate the card and it's open-to-buy? And do they also
need to validate the cardholder's AVS?

There may very well be nothing illegal, but, a rash of validate-only
will certainly make VISA Merchant Services suspicious enough to
investigate, unless the terms of their merchant account calls for that
kind of traffic. Every account is different and very specific about the
kind of activity that it allows. If they are changing the nature of
activity or flow on an existing account they need see about having the
account amended at least.

A validation request can be made on a MO/TO account since the processors
have no idea what kind of account it is, it's just unusual to do so and
finding a gateway that is programmed to send those codes is also
unusual. But don't take my word on that, shop around. Likewise, if they
use an over-the-counter account to just validate that the card is good
and has an open-to-buy, and never charge it based upon the web nature of
the validation request, then there's no illegality. 

But let them validate a bunch of cards and then later charge them and it
will look like an inept MO/TO flow and trigger an onsite visit from
their local ISO. If those turn out to be web sales done on an
over-the-counter account they are in deep sh*t. The underwriter can
demand a return of every cent that has ever been run through the
account, can seize and sell any assets to get that amount (without going
through the courts), and in 16 states ask the state to bring criminal
fraud charges. 

I have a similar situation brewing. A main street lingerie boutique has
"Nice", "Naughty" and "Nasty" sections in their store. In the store the
"Nasty" section is reserved for adults only. They want to do the same
thing on a website. They want to validate AVS to get into the adult
section without charging the card. Then they of course expect to sell
stuff too. Knowing that some third party gateways would not be
programmed to handle a validation-only we called B of A which offers a
direct shot into the processors. They said that programatically they
could do it but they want to use the existing store account for
validation and a new MO/TO account for the sales. The customer will have
to enter their information a second time if they want to buy something.
Not elegant but I think we'll do it if the underwriter approves.

How well do you know your client? Consider this scenario. Sally works at
a mail order house taking orders all day over the phone, putting cc
numbers in her purse as she goes. She sells this growing list to Rocky
in the parking lot on Wednesdays. Months go by. Rocky now has a stash
that he wants to sell to Jocko. Jocko wants to validate that each card
is still good and has at least $500 on it before he gives Rocky a price.
Jocko could do this through Alice's swipe machine at her restaurant but
that black box leaves a hard coded trail to Alice and she nixes using
her swipe, but not her account. So Jocko gets your client to get you to
do the validation over the web and Alice, doing her best to act
indignant, says "What? I got a restaurant here, why would I have a
website, someone's stolen my account number!" Jocko buys the stash,
Rocky buys Sally an expensive gift, only to find out she ran off with
Bob to Florida last Thursday, and the boys down town are looking for the
guy who used Alice's account number. 

Give or take a few details I just described what the FBI estimates was
25% of all credit card theft last year. 

It's easy to say, "Hey I'm just a web designer, I just build what they
ask for." That defense doesn't cut it for a plumber, an electrician, or
a carpenter, and it wont work when a client says, "You were the expert,
you should have told me, I'm suing". E-commerce is different. It's not
just design. I turned down an offer a year ago because I could see the
client in trouble with the state sales tax commission a year down the
road. My archrival built it. The client paid tens of thousands in fines
and sued the designer for building a site that violated the tax code. He
had no proof it was their design, not his. Case settled out of court.

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sat May 26 21:34:59 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sat May 26 21:34:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
References: <4.3.2.20010526204541.00e1c880@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com>

Peter Van Dijck wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I'm uploading .htaccess files to apache. I renamed then htaccess.txt,
> uploaded and then renamed .htaccess again (using cuteFTP).
> But they don't seem to be there (they contain rewrite directives). Or else
> mod_rewrite isn't on on that server. How can I find that out? (I got
> (limited) command line access)

Weird timing. I ran into that just last night myself. I have set
.htaccess as one of the extensions to upload ASCII so I don't go through
the renaming sequence. I think you can probably do the same with
cuteFTP. 

But, I was uploading the .htaccess to a server I'd never been on before.
And it wasn't getting to the server. I uploaded that damned thing 3
times before it dawned on me that that server treats a period begining
file name as a hidden file, refusing to show it to FTP as well as http.
I don't know if that's an Apache thing or the FTP server. But I
purposefully uploaded a malformed copy, got an error, uploaded my good
copy and got the change I expected. Now, I just have to remember that
it's there since I can't see it. It also makes it kinda hard to delete
too, but uploading a blank copy seems to have the same effect.

Your file's probably there, you could upload a copy with a basic Auth on
it and see if you get a password prompt just to verify that it's there.
If you're not getting results you probably have the wrong syntax.

keith



From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sat May 26 22:14:26 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sat May 26 22:14:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <3B1061DE.707752FC@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <B735BF47.3E97%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Keith Davis <cache at dowebs.com> typed:

> It's unusual and possibly illegal is correct. But that really depends on
> the why and what of their proposal. Could you give us a hint as to why
> they need to validate the card and it's open-to-buy?

Please don't get the wrong impression; there are no illegal intentions here!
The request was made because, apparently, when the orders are imported into
their database the authentication step is skipped. But this is why i'm
asking, because i want to make sure everything is done according to the
rules, and it seemed unusual to validate the card without charging it.

We'll probably recommend that they do the validation step the same way they
would for a phone order (i.e. manually); at this point I don't know all the
details of their merchant account, whether it's an MO/TO account or not. But
your warnings about possible liability are not falling on deaf ears...

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From hblair at bigfoot.com  Sat May 26 23:24:55 2001
From: hblair at bigfoot.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Sat May 26 23:24:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJAEBDKEAA.hblair@bigfoot.com>

>  Keith Davis wrote:
> But, I was uploading the .htaccess to a server I'd never been on before.
> And it wasn't getting to the server. I uploaded that damned thing 3
> times before it dawned on me that that server treats a period begining
> file name as a hidden file, refusing to show it to FTP as well as http.

In CuteFTP PRO you can see 'hidden' files by opening the remote folder,
then right=click / filter current view and make changes.

 From the Help file:

Server Side Filtering:  Here, users can define a custom 
listing command for remote systems supporting this feature.  
These custom commands are typically parameters to the 
Unix "ls" command.  For example, to force display of 
hidden files, use the parameter "-a".

It drove me nuts until I found this.  

HTH

-Hugh
____________________________
http://www.wholesalenics.net 





From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 01:30:55 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sun May 27 01:30:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web design presentation process
In-Reply-To: <DIENIJNCGNGKGDGLPMLEOEDHCJAA.mlovitt@oaksanderson.com>
References: <20010526053222.00D9A523B5@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B106726.32412.137DF38B@localhost>

> From: "Michael Lovitt" <mlovitt at oaksanderson.com>
>
> I'm writing an article on how to improve the Web design

for who, if i might be so bold, are you writing this?  yeah, web 
designers, but for a print mag, a zine, something else?  just 
curious, really...

> process, specifically, on the best way to present creative
> to clients. Some of the issues I'm addressing are: keeping
> things like content and site architecture separate from look
> and feel; presenting interactive elements like animation and
> roll-overs; and conveying how the site will look after it's
> been translated into HTML on various browsers and platforms
> and at various screen resolutions.

well, site architecture vs. site look is quite easy... we present a 
site map that details the structure of the site... the navigation 
design often reflects some of that site map... the design itself 
shows the home page and any content pages that would be from a 
different 'template'... we always present on-screen (often 
Photoshop files so we can switch layers on and off), and not via 
PDF... we include aliased greek text to show how copy might flow, 
and wrap the entire design in chrome... we show at the smallest 
size the site will accomodate, and show a sample of how it might 
scale, if it all...  we don't print them out, doing that brings 
consternation over color and font sizing all too often, so we avoid it 
since it clearly confuses the client... we have no real reason to 
show how some sites will look on alternative browsers, since some 
will look the same for the most part and we can describe what will 
be different... for CSS-driven sites, we show how it would look for 
non-CSS browsers...  rollovers are just shown as if it were a screen-
cap with the mouse in place... animations are described, or even 
story-boarded if necessary, but never built...

> I'd love to hear about how you deal with these and other
> issues, and what your presentation process is like in
> general: does your look and feel presentation include just a

the presentation is informal and held wherever the client wants... 
we'll show on their machines, our machines, third-party machines, 
projecters, etc... it doesn't matter since it will conceivably be seen 
on any one of those anyway at some point when it is built...

> home page and a secondary page? Do you present as Acrobats
> or GIFs, or something else? What are the major milestones?
> Will you make design changes after programming has begun?
> And so on.

we never begin coding until the client has signed off... once the 
client has signed off, no design changes occur unless the client 
pays for out-of-scope work -- they've already approved it, and we 
aren't going to re-do our work at every whim and go over budget...




From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 04:15:07 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 04:15:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B735BF47.3E97%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B10C651.5BCC662A@dowebs.com>

"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:

> Please don't get the wrong impression; there are no illegal intentions here!

Excellent, and understand my warnings are not particularly directed at
your client, but are also being offered quite broadly because there are
thousands of list members reading this thread who may have similar
situations. 

> The request was made because, apparently, when the orders are imported into
> their database the authentication step is skipped. But this is why i'm
> asking, because i want to make sure everything is done according to the
> rules, and it seemed unusual to validate the card without charging it.
> 
> We'll probably recommend that they do the validation step the same way they
> would for a phone order (i.e. manually); at this point I don't know all the
> details of their merchant account, whether it's an MO/TO account or not. But
> your warnings about possible liability are not falling on deaf ears...

You say they are importing "orders". I take that to mean that they are
actually going to charge the card and ship product. I also take it that
they now do a manual validation for phone orders. That word "manual"
throws up a red flag here, I take it that they are manually keying the
card number into their swipe machine. If that is an OTC
(over-the-counter) machine they are in violation. It could be a MO/TO
machine, in which case pass go, collect $200, and land on authorize.net.
But chances are it's an OTC so I'll proceed here with that assumption.
If so, then they are indeed getting a simple validation of the card
number and it's availability of credit for an amount. All OTC accounts
allow this, to a small degree. 

Take the old time convenience store that sells gas and has a sign at the
pump "Pay Before Pumping". Customer runs in and plops down his card and
runs back out. The experienced clerk quickly swipes the card and
validates it for $40 before turning the pump on. He now knows that the
card is not reported stolen and has credit for a tankfull. That kind of
thing is what the "validation" is for and it can be done by
"manual-entry" since some cards are unreadably worn. But, if the clerk
does this 3 times in a row with different cards the bells go off in
Omaha and the store gets an urgent call from the card processor asking
for the owner/manager. 

So now we get to the step of how your client actually charges the card,
presumably again through their OTC swipe machine by "manual-entry",
requesting a "charge" this time. An OTC account also allows for this, to
a degree, again because some cards are unreadably worn. But, if the rate
of "manual-entry" charges exceeds a threshold, bells go off in NYC at
merchant services. This time there is no phone call. This time an ISO
makes an onsite visit. That threshold will vary from 5% to 15% of total
credit card transactions depending on the nature of the business. 

Now, your client's web sales may not exceed 5% of his total credit cards
sales. He may use his OTC account to process what should be MO/TO
transactions for a long time without setting off any bells anywhere. 
But everytime he does it he just increases his potential for loss should
he get caught at it. 

> We'll probably recommend that they do the validation step the same way they
> would for a phone order (i.e. manually);

Please Charles, do not do that. From what you have told me, you would
actually be recommending that your client continue to violate creditcard
regulations. And you do not have to put yourself in that position.  What
I would recommend to you is to be right upfront, tell him that you've
researched the situation and from your limited research you think he
needs a MO/TO type merchant account. He may be innocently unaware! If so
you just put a major feather in your cap. On the otherhand, he may
respond to that the way many small businesses do, "Yeah, yeah, I know
all about that crap and I'm not going to waste my time on it." If that's
his response you have a built-in safety mechanism to keep from being
entangled in his violation, without recommending anything.

He wants to do the validation live-time. That will require going through
a bank or authorize.net or some other gateway since you cannot connect
directly from the website to the processor. Guess what, they'll require
a MO/TO account to hook him up and they'll know right off if it's an OTC
or a MO/TO. They are programmed to send web transaction "book" and
"capture" codes and an OTC account requires "validate" and "charge"
codes. Remember most of these third party gateways make their serious
money selling MO/TO accounts and they do not pass up this opportunity.
(Some gateways can do OTC, but they are strictly for instant delivery of
electronic download or restricted access. They are considered a "cash"
transactions. Using one of these gateways to process transactions for
shippable hard goods is not just a violation of creditcard rules, it
crosses the line to willful criminal fraud. Don't even mention them.) 

Since you cannot physically do the validations in live-time, offer to
save the transactions on the server and provide a secure SSL page or
secure SSH connection that will allow him to pull the orders off the
server. That's it, you've done your part, the transactions have left
your hands, your area of expertice, and your responsibility. How he then
processes them, or with what type of merchant account, is then not your
business, you are not entangled in any of it once the data leaves that
server and the enablement you provided. You still want a holdharmless in
your contract to keep his lawyer muzzled should/when things go sour. 

Understand that the vast majority of MO/TO transactions are not done
live-time. Most of them are done by pulling the data off the server
periodically and processing them via offline processing software. The
only valid reasons for live-time processing is to automate things the
way your client envisions, or when the enterprise is distributed and
remote fulfilment centers will trigger the capture at the time of
shipment, or to avoid providing SSL and storing sensitive data on the
server. 

The last 2 reasons may be a concern. If the domain is name-based instead
of ip based you cannot install SSL. You can get a reasonably priced SSL
cert at http://www.equifaxsecure.com/. As for storing data, many
e-commerce sites assign a unique ID to the transaction and then email
all of the transaction to the merchant, except for the last 6 characters
of the credit card number. They save those 6 numbers and the ID on the
server. The merchant then retrieves them and matches them up to the IDs
on the emails. When I do this I also keep the amount, customer's name,
and phone number on the server, just in case the email goes into a black
hole. Never had it happen, but I sleep better knowing no customer is
going to be left wondering if his money fell into a black hole. 

I know I've worn your patience out with all this, but hey, I've been
doing e-commerce since before the term was coined. And I sold off our
e-commerce clients last Oct so I could get some perspective on what's
went wrong with the e-commerce industry in general. You just stepped in
front of a loaded gun Charles. Sorry, nothing personal...

Good luck, and say HI to Sally and Bob if you get down to Tampa.

keith



From martin at members.evolt.org  Sun May 27 04:27:27 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sun May 27 04:27:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
Message-ID: <0b1521030091b51PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Keith Davis wrote on 27/5/01 10:18 am

Just wanted to add a couple of things to Keith's (excellent)
responses:

> On the otherhand, he may
>respond to that the way many small businesses do, "Yeah, yeah, I know
>all about that crap and I'm not going to waste my time on it." If that's
>his response you have a built-in safety mechanism to keep from being
>entangled in his violation, without recommending anything.

Make sure that you have your recommendation and their responses
documented, to clearly show that you have fulfilled your duty of care
to your client, and clear yourself of liability.

> When I do this I also keep the amount, customer's name,
>and phone number on the server, just in case the email goes into a black
>hole. Never had it happen, but I sleep better knowing no customer is
>going to be left wondering if his money fell into a black hole. 

This is A Good Thing. However, you'll need to cover it in your privacy
policy & notification, and if you're under EU data protection legislation,
it'll form part of your registration. No biggie, just another thing to
do as part of the process.

Cheers
Martin

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-------------------------------------------------------------------
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From peter at vardus.com  Sun May 27 07:47:24 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Sun May 27 07:47:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJAEBDKEAA.hblair@bigfoot.com>
References: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010527134343.00e29f00@mail.vardus.net>

I tried "filters > let the remote server do the filtering, mask:" -a"
But cuteFTP crashed on that?
Peter

>Server Side Filtering:  Here, users can define a custom
>listing command for remote systems supporting this feature.
>These custom commands are typically parameters to the
>Unix "ls" command.  For example, to force display of
>hidden files, use the parameter "-a".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From tony at boldfish.co.uk  Sun May 27 08:02:34 2001
From: tony at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun May 27 08:02:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20010527134343.00e29f00@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAGEBKEPAA.tony@boldfish.co.uk>

try "ls -la" without the "  or mask *.*



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Peter Van Dijck
> Sent: 27 May 2001 13:46
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache htaccess
> 
> 
> I tried "filters > let the remote server do the filtering, mask:" -a"
> But cuteFTP crashed on that?
> Peter
> 
> >Server Side Filtering:  Here, users can define a custom
> >listing command for remote systems supporting this feature.
> >These custom commands are typically parameters to the
> >Unix "ls" command.  For example, to force display of
> >hidden files, use the parameter "-a".
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
> http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 08:07:54 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 08:07:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] onClick image not loading properly
Message-ID: <000701c0e6ad$f90292c0$14241b3f@oemcomputer>

PPK -
Hi. Just used your neat mouseOver/onClick script for my revamped site that I
uploaded this morning and made it my first remote.js file. Ah, we're
advancing into the pond up to the waist now (er, well, knees). Neat, neat
script.

One "frown" however. I just sat here clicking on my menu items, then
clicking to go back Home. The first onClick image (which is Home) takes a
long time to load, or doesn't load at all, or at times loads quickly.
Perplexing. No problem with the other menu items. And it seems to be a
random thing. Any suggestions as to what could be going on? I checked it out
in I.E. 5.x and Netscape 6.01.
URL: http://www.24caratdesign.com.

Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From tony at boldfish.co.uk  Sun May 27 08:28:39 2001
From: tony at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun May 27 08:28:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20010527134343.00e29f00@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAOEBKEPAA.tony@boldfish.co.uk>

I just checked with my site and a copy of cuteftp

set the filter to -la

This will work.

the ftp command sent is then list -la

which is a "list all files command"

hth



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Peter Van Dijck
> Sent: 27 May 2001 13:46
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache htaccess
> 
> 
> I tried "filters > let the remote server do the filtering, mask:" -a"
> But cuteFTP crashed on that?
> Peter
> 
> >Server Side Filtering:  Here, users can define a custom
> >listing command for remote systems supporting this feature.
> >These custom commands are typically parameters to the
> >Unix "ls" command.  For example, to force display of
> >hidden files, use the parameter "-a".
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
> http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 08:33:59 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 08:33:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
References: <001901c0e564$41436500$e6241b3f@oemcomputer> <3B0F3690.9A0F6B21@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <001701c0e6b1$a06753e0$14241b3f@oemcomputer>

I ended up going as far as placing the remote js file in my root directory.
It works with just the file name. But I was anxious to get my site up. So,
I'll try the relative path route and place it in its own directory in a bit.

Thanks for your advice and the others who responded (Dan and Nate). Yes,
it's my first-ever shot at external js files. Fortunately, my host had the
application/x-javascript mime type set up. /Something/ went smoothly, ta da!

P.S. <g>You only see the forest when the leggy worms are eaten up by the big
dodos after they swoop down to get their Mac[intosh] snacks ... and knock
over some trees in their exuberance.</g>

Keith wrote:

>But, I assume this is your first shot at external js files on that
> server. You need to make sure the server has the
> application/x-javascript mime type so it will deliver the file. If it
> isn't, or if it has restrictions you can lose time, spouse, and sanity
> trying to figure out what's wrong. (not necessarily in that order)
>
> Best to first place it in the root with index.html (assuming that the
> script is called by index.html) and reference it with the full URL. If
> that works then the mime is installed. Then you want to make sure that
> the server has no restrictions. Try it with only the file name instead
> of the URL. If that works then move it to any other directory and use a
> relative path to reference it. If that works everything is OK.
>
> > Sure can't see the forest for the trees (again).
>
> Forest? What forest. There's legs on the worms in the apples in the
> trees, but forest? is there a forest here??

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 09:48:11 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 09:48:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
Message-ID: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer>

Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home page,
no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the other
pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images displaying).
This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
rollovers on the menu bar.

You can get in by going to:
http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.

Any ideas?

Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com




From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 10:08:26 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 10:08:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <001f01c0e6be$ced341a0$b929193f@oemcomputer>

Well, here I am replying to my own message. I just re-uploaded the
index.html page which now shows the text on the home page (no images tho).
My fault. In my enthusiasm to get the site up, I didn't run it through HTML
Tidy for the last time and, yes, I had left out a <./table> tag.

But still doesn't display the images. Must have something to do with the
remote js file. Again, tho, all displays just fine in I.E. 5.1 and Netscape
6.01. ??????????
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
----- Original Message -----

> Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home
page,
> no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the other
> pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images displaying).
> This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> rollovers on the menu bar.
>
> You can get in by going to:
> http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Sharon
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> Sharon F. Malone
> "web design and Internet writing services"
> http://www.24caratdesign.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From fayec at canada.com  Sun May 27 10:09:56 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sun May 27 10:09:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B1118EF.B0F03F8A@canada.com>

Hi,

They looks exactly the same here on IE 5.5 and NS4.7.....

FayeC
sfmalo wrote:
> 
> Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home page,
> no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the other
> pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images displaying).
> This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> rollovers on the menu bar.
> 
> You can get in by going to:
> http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Sharon
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sharon F. Malone
> "web design and Internet writing services"
> http://www.24caratdesign.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From fayec at canada.com  Sun May 27 10:14:46 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sun May 27 10:14:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B111A0E.CED83331@canada.com>

Oh..so you know...the a.link, a.visited and a.active don't work in NS so
if you want the links to be of a different colour on both browsers the
best way around it is to create classes for the links...

FayeC

P.S. I hope I explained it well.....ick...

sfmalo wrote:
> 
> Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home page,
> no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the other
> pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images displaying).
> This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> rollovers on the menu bar.
> 
> You can get in by going to:
> http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Sharon
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sharon F. Malone
> "web design and Internet writing services"
> http://www.24caratdesign.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sun May 27 10:20:41 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sun May 27 10:20:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <3B10C651.5BCC662A@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <B7366983.3EB6%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Keith Davis <cache at dowebs.com> typed:

> I know I've worn your patience out with all this, but hey, I've been
> doing e-commerce since before the term was coined.

Not at all! In fact, you just made a big deposit in your Bank of Karma by
sharing your knowledge with this e-commerce grasshopper. A million thanks
for your clear and detailed explanations.

> You say they are importing "orders". I take that to mean that they are
> actually going to charge the card and ship product. I also take it that
> they now do a manual validation for phone orders. That word "manual"
> throws up a red flag here, I take it that they are manually keying the
> card number into their swipe machine. If that is an OTC
> (over-the-counter) machine they are in violation. It could be a MO/TO
> machine, in which case pass go, collect $200, and land on authorize.net.
> But chances are it's an OTC so I'll proceed here with that assumption.

When they're back in the office on Tuesday, this is the first question we'll
be asking. I suspect it is an MO/TO account, because they're not the type to
cut corners like that, and I believe they do a lot of telephone business.

> Since you cannot physically do the validations in live-time, offer to
> save the transactions on the server and provide a secure SSL page or
> secure SSH connection that will allow him to pull the orders off the
> server. That's it, you've done your part, the transactions have left
> your hands, your area of expertice, and your responsibility.

Actually, this is exactly the way it works right now. The order form is on a
secure page, and transactions are stored on the server in a
password-protected directory. The client accesses them through another SSL
page, and then clears the file (by uploading a blank file with FTP) after
saving the orders so that CC numbers are only stored on the server for a
very short time. I created an Applescript that automates the process, to
provide some insurance against screwups.

This new issue came up because they recently switched their whole business
to a new DB system (Flexware). Instead of storing the orders in a simple
text file, they'll now be in tab-delimited file that can be imported
directly into their new DB -- which should save them a significant amount of
time and work. The way the process was described to us by their DB
consultant (a Flexware employee), when a file is imported it somehow skips
the initial CC verification step, and goes directly to preparing the orders
for shipping. This kind of makes sense to me now, based on what you wrote
(although it sounds like the DB consultant was a little unclear himself on
the terminology):

> A MO/TO account typically has two stages, the amount of
> the sale is first "booked" meaning that the amount is removed from the
> card's open-to-buy limit and put on 30 day hold for your account. The
> second stage is where you "capture" the amount by actually charging the
> card. It is illegal to "capture" the transaction until after the product
> has been physically shipped.

So it seems what they're asking us to do *is* the "booking" step. And if I
understand your points correctly, the "right way" for us to do this is to
have the client open a second merchant account and use a service like
authorize.net or Cybercash to authorize the charge. Hmm. Significant
expense, and the online ordering system will have to be redesigned (again).

What I love about this: the original spec for the project was just to write
back-end code to put the orders into a Flexware import file. So I deliver
this code, and they say "Oh, and there's one other little thing we'd like
this to do..." :^|

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 10:32:41 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 10:32:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer> <3B1118EF.B0F03F8A@canada.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c0e6c2$33eba8e0$b929193f@oemcomputer>

Yes, thanks for your reply. I was hoping I could say something before anyone
took the time to observe my booboos. I just re-uploaded some of the pages
which I had not run through the HTML Tidy validator ... and found some tags
missing on two pages. Interesting. It affected the entire site by not
displaying the images on any of the pages in NN4.7 only. Wild!!!

Appreciate you taking the time ... and I apologize. Been up all night trying
to get ths site ready for uploading and just got careless. I know I owe a
tip but I'm too tired to think of anything worthwhile. Raincheck?
Sharon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC)" <fayec at canada.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images


> Hi,
>
> They looks exactly the same here on IE 5.5 and NS4.7.....
>
> FayeC
> sfmalo wrote:
> >
> > Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> > Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home
page,
> > no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the
other
> > pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images
displaying).
> > This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> > rollovers on the menu bar.
> >
> > You can get in by going to:
> > http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Sharon
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > Sharon F. Malone
> > "web design and Internet writing services"
> > http://www.24caratdesign.com
>




From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 10:38:36 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 10:38:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer> <3B111A0E.CED83331@canada.com>
Message-ID: <001101c0e6c3$090c8300$b929193f@oemcomputer>

Yes, I knew that NN4.x didn't do well with link colors and "hover" at all
when using CSS. But didn't think of setting up classes for the colors.
Thanks, Will do so (after some sleep). You explained it well enough so that
I understood it!!!!! No need for "ick." Maybe "yuck" but never "ick."
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC)" <fayec at canada.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images


> Oh..so you know...the a.link, a.visited and a.active don't work in NS so
> if you want the links to be of a different colour on both browsers the
> best way around it is to create classes for the links...
>
> FayeC
>
> P.S. I hope I explained it well.....ick...
>
> sfmalo wrote:
> >
> > Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> > Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home
page,
> > no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the
other
> > pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images
displaying).
> > This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> > rollovers on the menu bar.
> >
> > You can get in by going to:
> > http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com





From sfmalo at msn.com  Sun May 27 10:45:32 2001
From: sfmalo at msn.com (sfmalo)
Date: Sun May 27 10:45:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer> <001f01c0e6be$ced341a0$b929193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <001701c0e6c3$fce12a80$b929193f@oemcomputer>

Moral of story. No more all-nighters! I just ran all the other pages through
HTML Tidy and, due to a couple of other missing tags (2 other pages only),
all my images disappeared into the night. Everything is okay now. Sorry,
folks. I ran out of steam and didn't do the final check that I should have
done.

I find it interesting that Netscape 6.01 displayed them right from the
start. Would not have thought it would have put up with what Netscape 4.7
did not.

Again, sorry for the panic. Of course, there is nothing wrong with PPK's
script, only with me who got impatient and didn't do a final check!

Sharon (I promise I'll provide two tips the next time).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "sfmalo" <sfmalo at msn.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images


> Well, here I am replying to my own message. I just re-uploaded the
> index.html page which now shows the text on the home page (no images tho).
> My fault. In my enthusiasm to get the site up, I didn't run it through
HTML
> Tidy for the last time and, yes, I had left out a <./table> tag.
>
> But still doesn't display the images. Must have something to do with the
> remote js file. Again, tho, all displays just fine in I.E. 5.1 and
Netscape
> 6.01. ??????????
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> Sharon F. Malone
> "web design and Internet writing services"
> http://www.24caratdesign.com
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > Eeeek. I just uploaded my revised site. It acts fine in I.E. 5.x and
> > Netscape 6.01 ... but! Netscape 4.7 shows only the top part of my Home
> page,
> > no text, no nav, and no images. If you type in the URL of any of the
other
> > pages on the site, they view (but, again, without the images
displaying).
> > This is the site for which I uploaded my first remote js file for the
> > rollovers on the menu bar.
> >
> > You can get in by going to:
> > http://www.24caratdesign.com/faq.html.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Sharon
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > Sharon F. Malone
> > "web design and Internet writing services"
> > http://www.24caratdesign.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From web at master.gen.in.us  Sun May 27 10:45:38 2001
From: web at master.gen.in.us (deke )
Date: Sun May 27 10:45:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
In-Reply-To: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <3B10EA02.1245.17F3F014@localhost>

On 26 May 2001, at 20:38, Keith Davis posted a message which said:

> But, I was uploading the .htaccess to a server I'd never been on before.
> And it wasn't getting to the server. I uploaded that damned thing 3
> times before it dawned on me that that server treats a period begining
> file name as a hidden file, refusing to show it to FTP as well as http.
> I don't know if that's an Apache thing or the FTP server. 

There's a line in the httpd.conf that says what files should be ignored
when building a directory index. I *think* this is the default:
  IndexIgnore .??* *~ *# HEADER* README* RCS CVS *,v *,t

Whether an FTP client shows system files or not is entirely up
to the FTP program. I don't know about Cute, but WS_FTP has
it as a configurable option, and my options are set to show 
system files. It's such an easy thing to do, that I suspect few
FTP programs are NOT configurable to show system files.

Sorta like ls.  If you just do an ls, you don't get system files,
and if you do an ls -a, you do.

deke




------------------------
 "The church is near but the road is icy; 
  the bar is far away but I will walk carefully." 
                            -- Russian Proverb



From doshea at surfree.com  Sun May 27 12:15:29 2001
From: doshea at surfree.com (Daniel S. O'Shea)
Date: Sun May 27 12:15:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] FP Question
In-Reply-To: <02d701c0e582$e566c280$eff5fea9@ita.sel.sony.com>
Message-ID: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINAEJNCCAA.doshea@surfree.com>

Well done on the 'clarification' as my first statement, "To run FP, you must
use their extensions." may have been misconstrued. The statement should have
been, "To run the full features of FP, you must use their extensions."

After getting my feet wet in web design through FP, I made it to the point
of manually scripting any of the features that were provided by FP and their
extensions. Basically as you say James, as just an authoring tool. (Ex. When
I want to see some advanced table design, I'll create it through FP and then
copy the code.) No need for me now to even use the database wizard, as I
code my own .mdb databases and now move on to SQL.

For me, it was a method to learn web design as a newbie, and move on.


For instance, you may want a fancier table than just border=1 padding=1, but
if you use FP, when you start a new page, open 'source' view, delete it
immediately, and code the basic html page. Then start manually your basic
code of a table or whatever. Then, improve upon it in the design view. Once
the basics are down, then you can start looking at your source code on the
more advanced html. Just a bit of advice for the newbies starting out in FP.
I wish I had had this advice when I started out.

On a related List Topic, letting companies know you coded even in notepad
does mean something. I learned that the hard way. The one negative with FP
is that I relied too much on the WYSIWYG feature. For any newbie, I would
stress FORCEFULLY to code as much as possible manually. An earlier thread
talked about someone adding to their resume that they coded in Notepad. Just
a year ago, when I had posted my resume all over the 'net, most companies
asked me if I knew how to code manually. I had to go back and start doing
everything manually, becoming more adept coding html.

I know this takes on several post topics, but I think recent discussion on
both makes it acceptable.

Dan O.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of James S. Huggins
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:27 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] FP Question
>
>
> >>>To run FP, you must use their extensions.
> >>>They allow the full features that come with Frontpage.
> >>>Any and all references that run 'webbots' like 'hover' links
> >>>and such need these extensions.
> >>>Uploading needs these extensions.
> >>>To run the FP Database wizard needs these extensions.
>
> To clarify slightly, it is possible to use FrontPage only as an authoring
> tool.
>
> In this case the author would avoid the 4 or 5 special FrontPage features
> that require FrontPage Server Extensions.
>
> In this case uploading with FTP would not present any problem.
>
> And, in this case, the server would not need to even have installed the
> FrontPage Server Extensions.
>
>
> James S. Huggins
> http://www.JamesSHuggins.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Sun May 27 14:28:16 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Sun May 27 14:28:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
In-Reply-To: <3B10C651.5BCC662A@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <B736A381.3ED7%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Keith Davis <cache at dowebs.com> typed:

> Good luck, and say HI to Sally and Bob if you get down to Tampa.
> 
> keith

By the way, who are Sally and Bob?

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From paola at limitless.co.uk  Sun May 27 14:58:56 2001
From: paola at limitless.co.uk (Paola Kathuria)
Date: Sun May 27 14:58:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web design presentation process
References: <DIENIJNCGNGKGDGLPMLEOEDHCJAA.mlovitt@oaksanderson.com>
Message-ID: <3B115D84.7A890DD7@limitless.co.uk>

Michael Lovitt asked:
> [about the web design process]

This is what I aimed to do (for non-database sites) when I worked
as a web producer at my previous company.

1) Define requirements
1a) 1-2 day requirements meeting with client & representatives
    of typical users (6 people max)
1b) write requirements document and flesh out site structure  (e.g., 
    http://www.limitless.co.uk/innovations/library/requirements.html)
1c) distribute and tweak site structure
1d) finalise labelling [invoice for requirements document]
1e) create a functional prototype to test content and
    navigation [invoice for prototype]

2) Graphic design
2a) brief graphic designers (same office but a separate company)
2b) initial ideas - ~5 design routes as marker sketches -
    the home page, 2-3 section pages and a sub-section page
    are shown for each route - initial ideas are presented at
    a meeting
2c) client submits comments & change requests (within 24 hrs
    if not at the meeting)    [invoice for initial ideas]
2d) design development - work up chosen route (or combination)
    on screen.  presented on screen and as colour print-outs at
    a meeting.
2e) client submits comments & change requests (within 24 hrs
    if not at the meeting)    [invoice for design development]
2f) production - imagery of chosen design route fully developed
    by graphic artists - create all graphics for the site
    [invoice for design development]

Meanwhile 3) Copy production
3a) brief copy-writer if using own writer or advise client on
    writing copy for the web.

Production
4a) mark-up home page, a section page and sub-section page 
    with final graphics and draft copy - get client feedback
4b) create web site with draft copy
4c) full site review & testing
4d) one batch of final changes (copy and images)
4e) final testing
4f) launch
4g) register with search engines/directories
[production invoice]

Documentation
5a) document style guide and maintenance manual [invoice]
    (if we weren't doing the site maintenance)

Changes beyond those already allowed for are charged on
a time & materials basis.

To put this in context, for non-database-backed sites, 80% of
the cost would typically go on the graphic design.  The process
took 12 weeks and would involve a team of about 5 people.

Even though we build in lots of review stages, the process is
still idealised.  Invoicing is against deliverables; however,
if we do 90% of a deliverable but the client delays completion,
we can't invoice.   I wondered whether to add something to the
Terms to say that invoice is based upon completion of
deliverables or when they were due (if they're delayed due to
circumstances beyond our control).  Anyone else tried this?

Finally, the most common reason for unexpected changes (in my
experience) has been when one person at the client company is
replaced by another or when a more senior person gets involved;
plans or designs which have come about by a systematic approval
process can still be thwarted by a company politics.


Paola



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 15:18:16 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 15:18:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <0b1521030091b51PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B1161AE.FB84634E@dowebs.com>

Martin wrote:
>
> Make sure that you have your recommendation and their responses
> documented, to clearly show that you have fulfilled your duty of care
> to your client, and clear yourself of liability.

Very good point. Document, document, document. That's one of the
built-in advantages of being a virtual business. I RARELY meet my
clients. Email, email, email, backedup email, archived email.... 

> > When I do this I also keep the amount, customer's name,
> >and phone number on the server, just in case the email goes into a black
> >hole. Never had it happen, but I sleep better knowing no customer is
> >going to be left wondering if his money fell into a black hole.
> 
> This is A Good Thing. However, you'll need to cover it in your privacy
> policy & notification, and if you're under EU data protection legislation,
> it'll form part of your registration. No biggie, just another thing to
> do as part of the process.

I cordially disagree, it is a biggie. I neglected to mention that I do
store such data on the server as securely as if I had the full
transaction there. Habit. But, we do take privacy matters way too
lightly on this side of the pond, at our own peril. Could you elaborate
on the EU data protection legislation, or offer pointers to sites that
can. We may not be required to meet EU requirements, but our public will
be well served if we try.

Thanks Martin

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 15:23:21 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 15:23:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Where do I place my remote JS file?
References: <001901c0e564$41436500$e6241b3f@oemcomputer> <3B0F3690.9A0F6B21@dowebs.com> <001701c0e6b1$a06753e0$14241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B1162E5.C5D125E1@dowebs.com>

sfmalo wrote:

> P.S. <g>You only see the forest when the leggy worms are eaten up by the big
> dodos after they swoop down to get their Mac[intosh] snacks ... and knock
> over some trees in their exuberance.</g>

Can you send dodos by email, PLEASE, I'm desperate! A dozen, two dozen,
ship 'em UPS if you have to.... COD, bill 'em to Joe, I don't care, just
send what you can spare!

keith



From martin at members.evolt.org  Sun May 27 15:30:36 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sun May 27 15:30:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
Message-ID: <02c6b2533201b51PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Keith Davis wrote on 27/5/01 9:21 pm

>> > When I do this I also keep the amount, customer's name,
>> >and phone number on the server, just in case the email goes into a black
>> >hole. Never had it happen, but I sleep better knowing no customer is
>> >going to be left wondering if his money fell into a black hole.
>> 
>> This is A Good Thing. However, you'll need to cover it in your privacy
>> policy & notification, and if you're under EU data protection legislation,
>> it'll form part of your registration. No biggie, just another thing to
>> do as part of the process.
>
>I cordially disagree, it is a biggie. I neglected to mention that I do
>store such data on the server as securely as if I had the full
>transaction there. Habit. But, we do take privacy matters way too
>lightly on this side of the pond, at our own peril. Could you elaborate
>on the EU data protection legislation, or offer pointers to sites that
>can. We may not be required to meet EU requirements, but our public will
>be well served if we try.

Here's the EU directive (caveat linebreak):
< 
http://wood.ccta.gov.uk/dpr/dpdoc.nsf/ed1e7ff5aa6def30802566360045bf4d/87e9
812eb170b250802568da0057505a/$FILE/Directive95_46_ec.rtf>
http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/media/dataprot/index.htm

The UK policy is pretty typical (although the German legislation
is generally more strict):
http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/
http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/principl.htm

The key acts are the 84 and 98 Data Protection Acts:
http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 15:32:41 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 15:32:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache htaccess
References: <3B10EA02.1245.17F3F014@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B116518.DEA93FD5@dowebs.com>

deke wrote:

> Whether an FTP client shows system files or not is entirely up
> to the FTP program. I don't know about Cute, but WS_FTP has
> it as a configurable option, and my options are set to show
> system files. It's such an easy thing to do, that I suspect few
> FTP programs are NOT configurable to show system files.
> 
> Sorta like ls.  If you just do an ls, you don't get system files,
> and if you do an ls -a, you do.

I use LeapFTP and there is no option to show system files. (At least I
couldn't find it) But I can include shell scripts on a session basis and
thanks to your tip can indeed see, and now delete, the files if I need
to. Beats writing a perl to do it. THANKS deke!

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 16:50:37 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 16:50:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] NN4.7 not showing my Home page/images
References: <000501c0e6bb$fd141b00$b929193f@oemcomputer> <001f01c0e6be$ced341a0$b929193f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B117759.55131160@dowebs.com>

NN 4.7 the display seems ok to me, so I assume that the image problem is
fixed. 

BUT, the first time on the page I got javascript errors. Subsequent
reloads got no errors. I notice you have an onload in the body that
calls a function presumably in the external js. On the first load the js
file is not completely loaded, producing the error. But by the time a
subsequent page load is done the js file has been cached and is pulled
from the cache so no errors. Common problem, Easy to fix.

I apologize, I left out an important detail earlier about external js
files. Although you have it in the head and it theoretically should have
loaded by the time the onload event is triggered, that does not
necessarily happen. There is nothing directly forcing that js file to
actually load and get compiled by the script engine prior to the page
triggering the onload event. Whether the js load beats the onload event
is dependent on net traffic, if the script tag is in the head section.
The body onload event referres only to the body loading, not the page.
There are also onload events for each image.

Solution. Place the external js tag in the body section, the first thing
in the body section. If you load a really immense js file from a tag in
the body you will notice that the page pauses its display at that point
until the js file has fully arrived in the browser. That's by design
since an external js could contain document.writes that affect the page
layout. It also guarentees that your js file has arrived and been
examined by the HTML engine for document.writes before the onload event
triggers.

It still takes time to compile and register the script in the script
engine. So on small pages with large js files it's sometimes necessary
to insert a half second setTimeout. But on your page that will not be
necessary. Also, since an external js tag in the page causes a pause in
page display it slows down reduring the page, not a good deal. So, one
should split up a large js file, if possible, placing only the onload
functions and any associated variables and/or any doc.writes in the
body, and all other functions and variables in the head.

Hey, I like it, that is 24 carat design!

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 17:01:27 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 17:01:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] onClick image not loading properly
References: <000701c0e6ad$f90292c0$14241b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3B1179E8.3DAAC6E1@dowebs.com>

sfmalo wrote:

> One "frown" however. I just sat here clicking on my menu items, then
> clicking to go back Home. The first onClick image (which is Home) takes a
> long time to load, or doesn't load at all, or at times loads quickly.
> Perplexing. No problem with the other menu items. And it seems to be a
> random thing. Any suggestions as to what could be going on? I checked it out
> in I.E. 5.x and Netscape 6.01.
> URL: http://www.24caratdesign.com.

Refere to my latest post (NN4.7 not showing my Home...) concerning
putting the external js tag in the body. I'm pretty certain that the
problem you describe above is connected to the js file not being loaded
by the time the onload event starts trying to rollover on this image. 

keith



From paul at wishlist.com.au  Sun May 27 21:26:25 2001
From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan)
Date: Sun May 27 21:26:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Performance testing: Reasonable TTLB benchmark
Message-ID: <931F4C5A590FD411852300B0D021E34B01B555D0@STALLONE>

Hi all,

I know this is the most vague possible email, and one for which it will 
be extremely hard to provide an intelligent answer, but I'm trying to 
help out a friend, and someone out there might be able to give us a
hand.

She is having problems with her web development company over the speed
of the site they have developed for her. She drew some rough figures
out of the air, and asked me if I thought they were a reasonable benchmark.

For the record, the site (without naming names or giving too much away):
	- is largely content-driven
	- provides a service that is not dissimilar to a job-
	  searching/job-matching service (but not actually that)
	- provides news and classified-type services to certain niche 
	  user groups on topics that interest them
	- does not, as far as I am aware, use SSL encryption anywhere
	  (which would slow it down a bit)
	- runs on Sun-clone Solaris hardware, running BEA 
	  WebLogic off Oracle
	- contains nothing (getting even vaguer here, I know)
	  which is particularly complicated or more whizz-bang
	  than the majority of content-based sites out there (really
	  no magic 'special features' - just hierarchical/searchable
	  blocks of text)

My friend told the dev. company that the site should cope with 3 page 
requests/sec, with a Time-To-Last-Byte (TTLB) of 1.5 secs. The 
development company scoffed at this, saying it was unreasonable and 
they couldn't meet those specs.

I, of course, in turn scoffed at them, because I am well aware that
3 pages/sec @ 1.5 sec TTLB each should be a doddle for pretty much
any straightforward app. Based on my experiences, serving HEAVILY dynamic
non-cacheable pages @ 15/sec with 500-600 millisecond TTLB is quite 
doable, on crappy old pure VBScript ASP.

Basically, my friends wants some 'ammo' to use against this company. I
realise what I've told you is almost impossibly vague, but if anyone can 
point to a site she can use as a comparison to say her benchmarks are 
not unreasonable, or even any anecdotal evidence you can provide to 
back up my belief that the company in question are a load of shonks for 
even suggesting such a thing, we will both be very grateful.

What would you say to them? What would you use to back it up? etc.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers,

Paul Cowan



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 23:07:51 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 23:07:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B7366983.3EB6%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B11CFC0.9AE0707E@dowebs.com>

"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:

> Actually, this is exactly the way it works right now. The order form is on a
> secure page, and transactions are stored on the server in a
> password-protected directory. The client accesses them through another SSL
> page, and then clears the file (by uploading a blank file with FTP) after
> saving the orders so that CC numbers are only stored on the server for a
> very short time. I created an Applescript that automates the process, to
> provide some insurance against screwups.

Interesting technique. I do not allow clients FTP so I do the cleanup
through the browser with the script. I first lock the data file,
read/overwrite it to a batch file, erase the data file and then unlock
it. They then work from the batch file while new orders can continue to
be written to the data file. That way no orders are lost if there is an
interruption between downloading and clearing the file.

> consultant (a Flexware employee), when a file is imported it somehow skips
> the initial CC verification step, and goes directly to preparing the orders
> for shipping. This kind of makes sense to me now, based on what you wrote
> (although it sounds like the DB consultant was a little unclear himself on
> the terminology):

Hmmmm. I'm not familiar with Flexware. But looking at their site, I'm
thinking they may not have been the best choice for this application. I
see no reference to being able to use the software for any credit card
processing. Heavy emphasis on accounting features but thin on workflow.
My guess is that this is probably excellent software for its niche, but
it appears to lack the frontend and backend of the process we need,
booking and capturing. There are excellent softwares that do the job
from front to back but that's water under the bridge. Even if Flexware
does a backend cc processing it maybe should not be used. MO/TO is a 2
stage process and auth codes for each transaction generated during the
book stage have to be used during the capture stage. 

And there are softwares that specialize in doing only the front and
backend and they can be highly automated to work with Flexware. We just
sandwich Flexware into the other. I really don't think you want to try
using an online live-time processing service here, simply because that
process will work off of files that cannot be shared with FLexware, a
lot of dual and possibly triple manual entry. AND, they will generate
live-time processing charges. If you instead use creditcard processing
software that resides on your Mac or Windows machine along side Flexware
they can share the same data, or at least easily merge the data. So,
what kind of software?

http://www.google.com/search?q=credit+card+processing+software
(Wow, last time I did that there were only 3 vendors!)

Now there's an easy to rememeber URL for ya!
http://creditcardprocessingsoftware.com

Personally I like the design and flow of MacAuthorize/PCAuthorize, but
most should have the same ICVerify standardized features and flow. I
especially like the MacAuthorize/PCAuthorize import/export file feature
because you can input any delimiter/layout and output any
delimiter/layout. 

Save the transactions on the server and download them as a batch. In the
processing software configure the import feature to read the file with
the delimiter and record layout of the file. Import the file. The
software will connect via modem at about 2400 over regular telephone
lines with the credit card call center and book the entire batch,
isolating the failures. Then configure the export feature to generate a
file for Flexware using the delimiter and record layout it needs and
including only the successfully booked orders. Do what Flexware does.
Time passes. Ask Flexware's DB to generate a file of all orders shipped.
Import to the processing software, it connects with the call center and
captures/charges the orders. It's not auto-pilot but it has
power-steering. You'll have a real hard time gluing Flexware to a
live-time online process that fits that well. 

> So it seems what they're asking us to do *is* the "booking" step. And if I
> understand your points correctly, the "right way" for us to do this is to
> have the client open a second merchant account and use a service like
> authorize.net or Cybercash to authorize the charge. Hmm. Significant
> expense, and the online ordering system will have to be redesigned (again).

Only if they get a fetish about doing the processing in live-time. And
if they already have a MO/TO account they can use it, it will just be
hard to find a processor who will admit it. If ya go that route look at
BofA's offering. It is THE standard to measure others by, it's very well
designed and feature rich, and I don't believe they have to have a BofA
business account or BofA merchant account, though I could be wrong since
we had both when I set up our design company gateway there.

> What I love about this: the original spec for the project was just to write
> back-end code to put the orders into a Flexware import file. So I deliver
> this code, and they say "Oh, and there's one other little thing we'd like
> this to do..." :^|

RIGHT!!! I had a 7K job. A week before live time they "mention" this one
more little feature. A major software company sells what I had already
done, plus this one little feature, in a package for 80K! 

In all fairness to your client, they probably didn't realize that the
credit card processors cannot be reached directly via tcp/ip. They
probably thought it would be a matter of submitting a form to the
processor and getting a response. Hey, it sounds reasonable to me too! 
I alpha and beta tested Netscape's LivePayment years ago and
participated in VISA's SET protocols first public review. You wont
believe what goes on in that little black box when you swipe a credit
card - it's ugly in there and things get infinitely uglier when you let
it out of the box and onto the web. 

We've probably covered all the angles on this subject, from this
perspective at least, that the rest of the group wants to see. It's a
pleasure working with you, if you have anymore questions before that
Tuesday meeting, email me off list. If I haven't already, I know that
with just a little more work I get you totally confused....

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Sun May 27 23:44:21 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sun May 27 23:44:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Credit card validation
References: <B736A381.3ED7%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B11D85C.C3F6C5CB@dowebs.com>

"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> Keith Davis <cache at dowebs.com> typed:
> 
> > Good luck, and say HI to Sally and Bob if you get down to Tampa.
> >
> > keith
> 
> By the way, who are Sally and Bob?

Well, since you asked, the story (yesterday) about Sally selling cc#s to
Rocky, Rocky selling them to Jocko and using Alice's account to verify
the cards. I changed Alice's name because she still owns her cafe in
Cambridge Mass and I changed Cheng Hui's to Jocko since I didn't want it
looking like I have an ethnic prejudice. But Sally and Rocky's names are
real. Well, Rocky's was real, he's presumed dead. The FBI's last known
address on Sally and someone named Bob was Tampa. "Jocko's" in
Singapore. Thought I was making that up, didn't ya? It cost me a little
over 8K by the time it was over. Happened Sept 98 and "Jocko" called me
last winter and wanted to know if I was ready to do it again?!?! Pervert

E-commerce pays good, but so does bull riding. There are mistakes to be
made, read my lips, "there are mistakes to be made".

keith