From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Mon Dec 24 00:01:15 2001
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Mon Dec 24 00:01:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Dec 17, 2001
Message-ID: <200112240601.fBO61EJo020739@leo.evolt.org>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Dec 17, 2001 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20011217.html

Week at a glance listing at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/week/c/Week-of-Mon-20011217.html

Search the tips at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/


Harvest Summary
---------------

Number of messages: 444
Number of tips    : 13

Tip Authors
-----------

.jeff (1)
FayeC (1)
Jay Blanchard (1)
John Corry (2)
Joshua Olson (1)
Mark Howells (1)
Miriam Frost (1)
noah (1)
rory (2)
Scott Dexter (1)
William (1)

Tip Types
---------

blocking advertisers (1)
bookmarklet (1)
ColdFusion and L10N (1)
Data Source Names (1)
Horizontal scrollbars in IE6 Framesets (1)
Javascript Multiple Cases (1)
JS and Forms (1)
Lynx for MacOS X (1)
Photoshop (1)
phpmyadmin (1)
Querying Test Databases (1)
quoting a job (1)



From mark at mountain.ch  Mon Dec 24 03:55:37 2001
From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Mon Dec 24 03:55:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] parseInt in javascript
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F42ggchfGUVFaB0000c19a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B84CBA71.26E4%mark@mountain.ch>

>> From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>

>> What I wanted was 0-9 to have a leading 0, so all numbers had two digits:
>> 
>> pad = function(int) {
>>       return int=(int<10)?"0"+int:int
>> }
>> 
>> status=pad(3)
>> 
>> will show 03
>> 
> 
> Jeff C (jeffc33 at hotmail.com) wrote:
> 
> Be careful using parseInt() here.  If the string starts with a 0 it
> will be parsed as an octal number.

I've had a very odd result when parsing some numbers using parseInt, in my
case for checking whether a date was valid. I found that if you parseInt
"08" or "09" (strings from a form field), you get 0. (Other numbers from 1
to 100 seem to be OK; This is on Mac, if that makes a difference).

Regards
Mark Howells
Working in a Winter Wonderland
http://www.mark.ac






From wardsuk at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 06:19:33 2001
From: wardsuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?John=20Ward?=)
Date: Mon Dec 24 06:19:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can you give me the best xmas present ever? javascript
Message-ID: <20011224122102.43118.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com>

HELP 'make my day'
 
Please could you help me I have a java-scriptthat
keeps coming back & saying,   
    
location is not an object

Please see below:
 
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=java-scriptgt;
<!--
function fnChangeFrame(frmName, frmSrc) {
  var objFrame = top[frmName];
  objFrame.location.replace(frmSrc);
}
 
function fnSwapMulti(frm1, frm1Src, frm2, frm2Src) {
// assumes param 1 for frame 1, etc.
 fnChangeFrame(frm1, frm1Src);
 fnChangeFrame(frm2, frm2Src);
}
 
file://-->
</SCRIPT>
 
I cannot figure out what is wrong, having now tried
for 8 weeks, but search engines don't seem to like it.

The web site sometimes works? See web site below:
 
http://www.themonroecentre.com

The one below does not work at all 

http://www.themonroecentre.co.uk

keeps comming up with as below? 

I would be forever grateful if you could help.
 

Mery Xmas to all

john
 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com



From mark at mountain.ch  Mon Dec 24 06:25:33 2001
From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Mon Dec 24 06:25:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can you give me the best xmas present ever?
	javascript
In-Reply-To: <20011224122102.43118.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B84CDD95.26EE%mark@mountain.ch>

I imagine that the error you're getting is actually

'objFrame.location is not an object'

The problem lies in your definition of objFrame, which should read

var objFrame=top.frames[frmName]

Best regards for a merry Christmas and happy new year.
Mark Howells
Working in a Winter Wonderland
http://www.mark.ac

> John Ward (wardsuk at yahoo.co.uk) wrote:

> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="javascript">
> <!--
> function fnChangeFrame(frmName, frmSrc) {
> var objFrame = top[frmName];
> objFrame.location.replace(frmSrc);
> }
> 
> function fnSwapMulti(frm1, frm1Src, frm2, frm2Src) {
> // assumes param 1 for frame 1, etc.
> fnChangeFrame(frm1, frm1Src);
> fnChangeFrame(frm2, frm2Src);
> }
> 
> // -->
> </SCRIPT>




From persist1 at io.com  Mon Dec 24 06:31:40 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Mon Dec 24 06:31:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Can you give me the best xmas present ever? javascript
In-Reply-To: <20011224122102.43118.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112240626430.31312-100000@hagbard.io.com>

On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, John Ward wrote:

> HELP 'make my day'
>
> Please could you help me I have a java-scriptthat
> keeps coming back & saying,
>
> location is not an object
>
> Please see below:
>
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE=java-scriptgt;
> <!--
> function fnChangeFrame(frmName, frmSrc) {
>   var objFrame = top[frmName];

...Probably because this reference to 'top' is incorrect.

top.frames[frmName] will probably work, and window.top.frames[frmName]
will definitely work.  (I say "probably" on the former only because I've
been traumatized by Netscape and refuse to truncate anything, meaning that
I've never referred to window.top as just top and don't know how that
reference behaves.)

> I cannot figure out what is wrong, having now tried
> for 8 weeks, but search engines don't seem to like it.

Of course not.

Search engine spiders don't grok frame src's.  A redirect or sitemap link
between NOFRAMES tags should solve that problem, though.


HTH
-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec 24 09:55:52 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec 24 09:55:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] parseInt in javascript
References: <B84CBA71.26E4%mark@mountain.ch>
Message-ID: <002d01c18c93$fbf8eb00$2860398a@newcos.com>

.jeff and Mark,

> > Be careful using parseInt() here.  If the string starts with a 0 it
> > will be parsed as an octal number.
>
> I've had a very odd result when parsing some numbers using parseInt, in my
> case for checking whether a date was valid. I found that if you parseInt
> "08" or "09" (strings from a form field), you get 0. (Other numbers from 1
> to 100 seem to be OK; This is on Mac, if that makes a difference).

    Of course the solution to this is to use a radix value in your parseInt
method:

var strNumber = "08" ;
var intNumber = parseInt(strNumber, 10) ;

    Without the radix, you'll get the octal result of 0; with the radix
value of 10, you get the integer result of 8.

James Aylard




From dannyg at dannyg.com  Mon Dec 24 12:34:58 2001
From: dannyg at dannyg.com (Danny Goodman)
Date: Mon Dec 24 12:34:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] javascript question on formatting numbers.
In-Reply-To: <20011224123322.00FC6BFB5@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B84CB5AE.12E8C%dannyg@dannyg.com>

> 
> Be careful using parseInt() here.  If the string starts with a 0 it
> will be parsed as an octal number.

Use the optional second parameter (radix value) to force conversion to
base-10:

var int = parseInt(string, 10);


Danny
http://www.dannyg.com




From webguru at vsnl.net  Mon Dec 24 13:16:59 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Mon Dec 24 13:16:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question
In-Reply-To: <20011224123321.53EB7BFB3@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011225004551.01ed3428@203.197.12.4>

Amanda,

At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001, Amanda typed these words:
> > quote?  pre-prend?
> >
> > that's pretty horrible if Outlook2k2 doesn't have it... (or is it
> > OutlookMMII?)
> >
> > nothing on the MS site?  or the help file?
>
>Well, I've looked but either it's not there or I don't know the exact
>words for what I'm looking for.
>
>I'll keep digging.

Yep, it can be done. I've posted a tip about this - twice ;)
(so that Outlook users on this list would stop replying to a message 
without context :P )

You can read it here:
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3822

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From webguru at vsnl.net  Mon Dec 24 13:23:07 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Mon Dec 24 13:23:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb
  question)
In-Reply-To: <20011224123321.53EB7BFB3@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011225004804.01d59ae8@203.197.12.4>

At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001, jedimaster typed these words:
>As silly as wanting to write an automatic filter that colors all email
>from macromedia.com red. But, that would be crazy to, since the
>filtering rules can't be applied to an email address when the sender is
>known (ie, I see Raymond Camden, not jedimaster at macromedia.com). Again,
>I'm probably just being silly to want functionality like that.

Raymond,

This is very easy in Outlook. Just set up a message rule with the condition 
for "with specific words in the sender's address" set to "macromedia.com".

But Outlook sucks as an email client. I was forced to use it in my last job 
and replying to list mail (I'm on digest) was a nightmare. I'm back to good 
ol' Eudora now.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Mon Dec 24 13:49:04 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (MRC)
Date: Mon Dec 24 13:49:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011225004804.01d59ae8@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <004401c18cb4$9054e810$2860398a@newcos.com>

Raymond,

> >As silly as wanting to write an automatic filter that colors all email
> >from macromedia.com red. But, that would be crazy to, since the
> >filtering rules can't be applied to an email address when the sender is
> >known (ie, I see Raymond Camden, not jedimaster at macromedia.com). Again,
> >I'm probably just being silly to want functionality like that.

    Using Outlook 2K (not sure about previous versions), you can format the
coloration of messages in the way that you want to. Go to Tools > Organize,
click on the "Using Colors" option. For simple formatting, you can use the
limited options presented in the Organize window; for more complex
formatting options, choose "Automatic Formatting..." in the upper right
corner of the Organize window.

James Aylard




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Dec 24 14:41:21 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Dec 24 14:41:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
In-Reply-To: <004401c18cb4$9054e810$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <000901c18cbc$63c304f0$6501a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>

It doesn't seem to work. Again, the issue seems to be with naming. For
example, I get an email from Peter Farland, pfarland at macromedia.com, but
Outlook seems to only recognize the name, not the email address. You
know how in Outlook, "From" can be either the name or email addy? There
seems to be no way to make a rule that checks _just_ the email address.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of MRC
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 2:53 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: 
> Outlook - dumb question)
> 
> 
> Raymond,
> 
> > >As silly as wanting to write an automatic filter that 
> colors all email
> > >from macromedia.com red. But, that would be crazy to, since the
> > >filtering rules can't be applied to an email address when 
> the sender is
> > >known (ie, I see Raymond Camden, not 
> jedimaster at macromedia.com). Again,
> > >I'm probably just being silly to want functionality like that.
> 
>     Using Outlook 2K (not sure about previous versions), you 
> can format the
> coloration of messages in the way that you want to. Go to 
> Tools > Organize,
> click on the "Using Colors" option. For simple formatting, 
> you can use the
> limited options presented in the Organize window; for more complex
> formatting options, choose "Automatic Formatting..." in the 
> upper right
> corner of the Organize window.
> 
> James Aylard
> 
> 
> -- 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Dec 24 14:42:14 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Dec 24 14:42:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011225004804.01d59ae8@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <000a01c18cbc$835b17d0$6501a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>

> This is very easy in Outlook. Just set up a message rule with 
> the condition 
> for "with specific words in the sender's address" set to 
> "macromedia.com".

But this only works if the From portion does NOT contain the name of
someone recognized in my address book. In those cases, email addresses
are translated, ie, from foo at macromedia.com to Bob Patterson. There
seems to be no way to make Outlook check just the email address.

-rc




From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 25 11:43:28 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Dec 25 11:43:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] ...             [OT]
Message-ID: <3C285D8D.6969.AC2F30F5@localhost>

ho...




ho...




ho.




From gary at whiteroseproductions.com  Tue Dec 25 14:18:37 2001
From: gary at whiteroseproductions.com (Gary Pool)
Date: Tue Dec 25 14:18:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] ...             [OT]
In-Reply-To: <3C285D8D.6969.AC2F30F5@localhost>
References: <3C285D8D.6969.AC2F30F5@localhost>
Message-ID: <a05100300b84e8f4320b3@[12.224.96.157]>

>ho...
>ho...
>ho.


Yes

Gary



From andrebotelho at microsoft.com  Tue Dec 25 16:10:51 2001
From: andrebotelho at microsoft.com (Andrew Botelho)
Date: Tue Dec 25 16:10:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Take your own conclusions
Message-ID: <EXCH01SMTP02gKuu8FZ0000cd46@smtp.netcabo.pt>

Dear Friend:
 
        AS SEEN ON NATIONAL TV:
 
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        THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET!
       ===============================================
 
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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         ===================================================
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5000 - Vila Real
PORTUGAL                                                                             
        __________________________________________________ 
  
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           Order Report # 3  from: 

Catarina Almeida
Avenida General Alves Ro?adas n?18 - 1? Direito
5000 - Vila Real
PORTUGAL

         ___________________________________________________ 
  
      REPORT # 4 : ''How to become a millionaire utilizing MLM & the
Net''
            Order Report # 4   from: 

Lurdes Monteiro
Travessa do Ramalh?o n?120 - 3? Esq
4445-578 Ermesinde
PORTUGAL

         ___________________________________________________ 
 
      REPORT # 5 : ''How to send 1 million e-mails for free''
            Order Report # 5   from: 

Concei??o Correia
Rua J?lio Dinis n? 270 - Hab 41
4050 - Porto
PORTUGAL   


  

         ___________________________________________________
         $$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$
 
 
 
         Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
 
         If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2
         weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do.
 
         After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that
         you should  receive 100 orders or more for REPORT # 2.
         If you did not, continue  advertising or sending e-mails until
         you do.
 
         Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2,
         YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for
         you , and the cash will continue to roll in !
 
         THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER :  Every time your name is
         moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a different report.
         You can KEEP TRACK  of your PROGRESS by watching which
         report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE
         MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS  AND
         START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to
         the income you can generate from this business !!!
        ____________________________________________________
 
                  FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS
                                                     PROGRAM:
 
          "You have just received information that can give you financial
            freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK  and  JUST A
            LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the
            next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined.
 
            Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change
            it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now.
            Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you
            have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to
            #2...........# 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may
            send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone
            of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential
            customers you will reach.
 
            So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information,
            materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO
            YOU NOW !
 
                      ************** MORE  TESTIMONIALS  ****************
 
            '' My name is Mitchell. My wife , Jody and I live in Chicago.
            I am an accountant with a major  U.S. Corporation and I
            make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled
            to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the
            whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and
            percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody
            totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in
            with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to
            lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn't
            work.  Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received
            50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received a
            total of $ 147,200.00   all cash!  I was shocked. I have
            joined Jody in her ''hobby''.
                                                 Mitchell  Wolf,  M.D. ,
                                                 Chicago, Illinois
 
------------------------------------------------------------
 
            '' Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to
            make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that
            I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little
            that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at
            least get my  money back.
 
            I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box
            crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12
            weeks.  The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter
            where people live. There simply isn't a better investment
            with a faster return and so big''.
                                               Dan Sondstrom, Alberta,
                                                            Canada
 
-----------------------------------------------------------
 
            '' I had  received this program before. I deleted  it, but
            later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had
            no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait
            until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months
            passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this
            one! I made more than  $490,000 on my first try  and all the
            money came within  22 weeks''.
                                   Susan De Suza,
                                    New York, N.Y.
 
                       ----------------------------------------------------
 
            '' It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy
            money with little cost to you. I followed the simple
            instructions carefully and within 10 days the money
            started to come in.  My first month I made $ 20, 560.00
            and by the end of third month my total cash count was
            $ 362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to internet''.
                                               Fred Dellaca, Westport,
                                                          New Zealand
 
------------------------------------------------------------
 

        ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON
        YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM !
 
=======================================================
 
If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the
Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade
Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C.
 

                 --------  T  H  E        E  N   D  ---------





From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Dec 25 16:50:07 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Dec 25 16:50:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Take your own conclusions
Message-ID: <01c18d96$c2f17760$854e149a@rudy>

'tis the season to be spamming

[ sigh ]

i feel sorry for people like Andrew Botelho <andrebotelho at microsoft.com>
although that's probably not his name, and that's gotta be a fake email
address -- microsoft, no matter what else you say about them, aren't about
to hire anybody this dumb, right?

hopefully y'all are quick with the delete button

now back to our regularly scheduled holiday


rudy




From derry at artema.com.au  Tue Dec 25 18:11:46 2001
From: derry at artema.com.au (Derry Talvainn)
Date: Tue Dec 25 18:11:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
In-Reply-To: <000a01c18cbc$835b17d0$6501a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>
Message-ID: <MABBIFDHKJGFKFCBFKDEGEMLDLAA.derry@artema.com.au>

This works for me under the conditions you describe. I just select the email
from the person I want to come in coloured, hit the 'organize' button in the
standard toolbar, select using colours, choose what colour I want press
'apply color'. Works for recognised people in my address book.

Derry Talvainn
Artema Interactive Design

The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room ...
especially if there is no cat. (Confucius)



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Raymond Camden
Sent: Tuesday, 25 December 2001 7:50 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb
question)



> This is very easy in Outlook. Just set up a message rule with
> the condition
> for "with specific words in the sender's address" set to
> "macromedia.com".

But this only works if the From portion does NOT contain the name of
someone recognized in my address book. In those cases, email addresses
are translated, ie, from foo at macromedia.com to Bob Patterson. There
seems to be no way to make Outlook check just the email address.

-rc


--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Tue Dec 25 19:16:39 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Dec 25 19:16:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
In-Reply-To: <MABBIFDHKJGFKFCBFKDEGEMLDLAA.derry@artema.com.au>
Message-ID: <002201c18dac$0a04e9b0$6501a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>

However, I'm trying to organize by email addresses that contain
macromedia.com. When the email comes in, and it's someone in my address
book, for example, foo at macromedia.com = Bob Patterson, the rule doesn't
work anymore. Outlook says "I know that foo at macromedia.com is Bob, so
I'll ignore the email address."

Again, this _should_ be simple, but it's not.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Derry Talvainn
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:08 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: 
> Outlook - dumb question)
> 
> 
> This works for me under the conditions you describe. I just 
> select the email
> from the person I want to come in coloured, hit the 
> 'organize' button in the
> standard toolbar, select using colours, choose what colour I 
> want press
> 'apply color'. Works for recognised people in my address book.
> 
> 




From hblair at hotfootmail.com  Tue Dec 25 19:51:13 2001
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Tue Dec 25 19:51:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  question)
In-Reply-To: <002201c18dac$0a04e9b0$6501a8c0@mylittledomain.internal>
Message-ID: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJCEAMNBAA.hblair@hotfootmail.com>

Forgive me if I don't understand, but if you're trying to move
mail from "foo at ..." to a specific folder, the rule that works for
me (in Outlook 2k) is:

Apply this rule after the message arrives
(Check messages when they arrive)
from [here you should put the exact name(s) as they are in you
      Address Book]
(from people or distribution list)
move it to the [name_of_folder]
(move it to the specified folder)
[add exceptions if wanted]

Now, highlight that folder and choose:

Tools -> Organize -> Using Colors -> 

and fill in the appropriate options.  This works for me.
NOTE: I've found that sometimes Outlook 2k will ignore a rule
now and then.  Killing and restarting the program usually 
reactivates that rule.

-Hugh

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Raymond Camden
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb
> question)
> 
> 
> However, I'm trying to organize by email addresses that contain
> macromedia.com. When the email comes in, and it's someone in my address
> book, for example, foo at macromedia.com = Bob Patterson, the rule doesn't
> work anymore. Outlook says "I know that foo at macromedia.com is Bob, so
> I'll ignore the email address."
> 
> Again, this _should_ be simple, but it's not.
> 



From adrian at logo-logic.com  Wed Dec 26 00:02:34 2001
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Wed Dec 26 00:02:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Joins in Mysql
Message-ID: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPGEJGCIAA.adrian@logo-logic.com>

Hi Gang,

I hope someone out there isn't celebrating Christmas so much that they cant
answer my question (a bit sad really, isn't it)

I have 2 separate tables.
One table (table_1) has "ID" and "Password" (plus other columns)
The other table has(table_2) "ID" (plus other columns)
The "ID"  are identical in both tables
 I need to be able to confirm that "ID" exists in table_2 and that the
password given is correct in table_1

Something like:
SELECT ID,Password from table_2.table_1 where ID=$form{id'}

can you tell I know very little about joins??

Can any body help?

Regards

Adrian Fischer




From judah at wiredotter.com  Wed Dec 26 01:22:10 2001
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Wed Dec 26 01:22:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Joins in Mysql
In-Reply-To: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPGEJGCIAA.adrian@logo-logic.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011225231515.02715eb0@mail.site-o-matic.com>

Hmmm...too tired to expound much on joins (theory and such), but I will 
write the query I think you're trying to use.

SELECT table_1.Password, table_2.other_fields
FROM table_1 INNER JOIN table_2 ON table_1.ID = table_2.ID
WHERE table_1.ID = $form{id}

The INNER JOIN clause of the FROM statement grabs only those rows where the 
ID field in each row matches the ID field in the other table.  And by 
specifying the table_1.ID = $form{id}, the database will pare down the list 
of possible rows in table_1 before joining over to table_2 and searching 
for matching rows over there.  This will make the query pretty fast.

Hope that helps.  Now its time to pass out from Christmas feasting.

Judah

At 04:08 PM 12/26/2001 +1000, you wrote:

>Hi Gang,
>
>I hope someone out there isn't celebrating Christmas so much that they cant
>answer my question (a bit sad really, isn't it)
>
>I have 2 separate tables.
>One table (table_1) has "ID" and "Password" (plus other columns)
>The other table has(table_2) "ID" (plus other columns)
>The "ID"  are identical in both tables
>  I need to be able to confirm that "ID" exists in table_2 and that the
>password given is correct in table_1
>
>Something like:
>SELECT ID,Password from table_2.table_1 where ID=$form{id'}
>
>can you tell I know very little about joins??
>
>Can any body help?
>
>Regards
>
>Adrian Fischer
>
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From frederic.roland at roland-dev.com  Wed Dec 26 05:17:03 2001
From: frederic.roland at roland-dev.com (Frédéric ROLAND)
Date: Wed Dec 26 05:17:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email question
In-Reply-To: <MAEALCHBJCNLINKOIAMPGEJGCIAA.adrian@logo-logic.com>
Message-ID: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOAEBDDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>

Hi,

I'm searching for an RFC or some technical document that explain
what is the valid form for an email address, maximum size, valid characters
...

I need to write a simple address book system with Name + email
to form email addresses in this form:

"Fr?d?ric" <frederic at roland-dev.com>

Best regards,
Fr?d?ric Roland.





From johnolival at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 26 05:44:20 2001
From: johnolival at yahoo.co.uk (John Olival)
Date: Wed Dec 26 05:44:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Email question
References: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOAEBDDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>
Message-ID: <01cd01c18e03$43667a00$8e7478d5@london.local>

> I'm searching for an RFC or some technical document that explain
> what is the valid form for an email address, maximum size, valid
characters

rfc822:
http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/822/index.htm

specific to addresses:
http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/822/41.htm

HTH

John


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From jdcrz at etang.com  Wed Dec 26 06:03:30 2001
From: jdcrz at etang.com (jdcrz)
Date: Wed Dec 26 06:03:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] =?gb2312?B?UmUgV2VsY29tZSBUbyAidGhlbGlzdCIh?=
Message-ID: <3C29BDA5.23216@mail-smtp2>


>Welcome to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list! Thanks for
>joining the evolt.org mailing lists. Send a message to the list at
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>
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-----------------------------------------
????????  ????????
http://name.etang.com/
??????????????????????????
http://sms.etang.com
??????????????????
http://www.etang.com/texthanburg/index.htm
???????????????????? ??????????????
http://campus.etang.com/html/academic/usa/scho/scho017.htm    



From scotts at rci-nv.com  Wed Dec 26 11:26:19 2001
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Wed Dec 26 11:26:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Colouring email (was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb  que
	stion)
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A25B6@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugh Blair [mailto:hblair at hotfootmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 5:54 PM
> 
> Forgive me if I don't understand, but if you're trying to move
> mail from "foo at ..." to a specific folder,

No, he's trying to move mail from *.*@macromedia.com (everyone with a
macromedia.com e-mail address) to a specific folder. If someone at
Macromedia is in his address book, Outlook falls apart and the message
doesn't get moved. I don't know of any way around this other than setting up
the generic rule and then expanding it to include each of the names Outlook
trips on. A lot of work, and a maintenance nightmare.



From john at neoncowboy.com  Wed Dec 26 11:48:16 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Wed Dec 26 11:48:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
In-Reply-To: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A25B6@SERVER1>
Message-ID: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGAEPNCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/index.php?page=rates

This is really a question of 'logical approach' more than anything.

At the URL above I have a table for condo rates. I'm about to build a db
driven site that has this information for about 10-20 properties and need to
automate part of it. I've got the actual rates coming from the db already,
that's a given. It's the date ranges that has me stumped because I don't
want to store that value, I want to generate it based on the current date.

The 'high season' and 'low season' dates change every year. I need to
automate that change.

Hm, if this it too complicated though I guess it would be fine and easy
enough to just put the dates in an include and use that file for all of the
sites...but, if there's some great PHP date magic one of you could enlighten
me to, that'd be GREAT!

thanks,
John Corry
Principal
Neon Cowboy Design
URL : http://www.neoncowboy.com
email > office : john at neoncowboy.com	mobile: cellphone at neoncowboy.com
telephone > office : 808.572.8494	mobile: 808.283.7063




From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Dec 26 12:04:14 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:04:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F3@nyexchange01.summithq.com>

hiya!

hope you all are enjoying this holiday season.

changing my page footer to an SSI. in testing, DW doesn't see the site
relative links to the home page.

<a href="/contact/home.html">contact</a> works fine.
<a href="/home.html">home</a> doesn't work. 

DW take the /home.html link and tries to go the wwwroot folder of the web
server, not the homepage of the site. why?

please help -- i need to get this up this afternoon.

tia,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
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From webdev at komputerart.com  Wed Dec 26 12:07:54 2001
From: webdev at komputerart.com (Kris Hedstrom)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:07:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
References: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGAEPNCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c18e38$b3107ec0$1fb7e40c@attbi.com>

hmm, I'm not totally sure what you want but if you're simply looking to get
today's date from the server you can use the date() function.
See http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.date.php

hope that helps

- kris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Corry <john at neoncowboy.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: [thelist] php date


> http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/index.php?page=rates
>
> This is really a question of 'logical approach' more than anything.
>
> At the URL above I have a table for condo rates. I'm about to build a db
> driven site that has this information for about 10-20 properties and need
to
> automate part of it. I've got the actual rates coming from the db already,
> that's a given. It's the date ranges that has me stumped because I don't
> want to store that value, I want to generate it based on the current date.
>
> The 'high season' and 'low season' dates change every year. I need to
> automate that change.
>
> Hm, if this it too complicated though I guess it would be fine and easy
> enough to just put the dates in an include and use that file for all of
the
> sites...but, if there's some great PHP date magic one of you could
enlighten
> me to, that'd be GREAT!





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Dec 26 12:10:23 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:10:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F3@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <000201c18e3a$5e320bb0$38602241@tampabay.rr.com>

Have you tried <a href="home.html">home</a> in stead of <a
href="/home.html">home</a>?, I think your forward slash is giving you the
trouble.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Fortune Elkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 1:01 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working
correctly?


hiya!

hope you all are enjoying this holiday season.

changing my page footer to an SSI. in testing, DW doesn't see the site
relative links to the home page.

<a href="/contact/home.html">contact</a> works fine.
<a href="/home.html">home</a> doesn't work.

DW take the /home.html link and tries to go the wwwroot folder of the web
server, not the homepage of the site. why?

please help -- i need to get this up this afternoon.

tia,

f

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
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own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.


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From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Dec 26 12:38:58 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:38:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correc
	tly?
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F4@nyexchange01.summithq.com>

hiya bob!

>Have you tried <a href="home.html">home</a> in stead of <a
>href="/home.html">home</a>?, I think your forward slash is giving you the
>trouble.

using just <a href="home.html"> will take me to the home page for each
subfolder. i need to create one file that will work anywhere in the website,
which i thought was the usefulness of root relative paths in this case.

am i just trying to the impossible? is hard coding the entire link the only
way here?

f

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--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From john at neoncowboy.com  Wed Dec 26 12:45:03 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:45:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F3@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGCEPPCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

> DW take the /home.html link and tries to go the wwwroot folder of the web
> server, not the homepage of the site. why?
>
> please help -- i need to get this up this afternoon.

How does it behave on the server? That's the important question.

a '/' prepended to any link will make that link resolve from site root.
Don't worry how DW tries to do it.

Upload a test file that calls the links include and see if it works on your
server. You may have to save the file with a .shtml extension, check your
ISP's documentation.

jpc




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Wed Dec 26 12:52:28 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:52:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
In-Reply-To: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGAEPNCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0112261351050.12225-100000@scooter.webservepro.com>

On Dec 26, John Corry had something to say about [thelist] php date

>http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/index.php?page=rates
>
>This is really a question of 'logical approach' more than anything.
>
>At the URL above I have a table for condo rates. I'm about to build a db
>driven site that has this information for about 10-20 properties and need to
>automate part of it. I've got the actual rates coming from the db already,
>that's a given. It's the date ranges that has me stumped because I don't
>want to store that value, I want to generate it based on the current date.
>
>The 'high season' and 'low season' dates change every year. I need to
>automate that change.

Can you explain how they change each year? Is it dependant on something
constant or is it chosen by the owners or...?

And how would this be based on the current date?

Just trying to get a feel for what you want. Surely there's some way to
avoid that icky include file  ;-)

Thanks,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From john at neoncowboy.com  Wed Dec 26 12:59:48 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Wed Dec 26 12:59:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
In-Reply-To: <001e01c18e38$b3107ec0$1fb7e40c@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGOEPPCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

> hmm, I'm not totally sure what you want but if you're simply
> looking to get
> today's date from the server you can use the date() function.
> See http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.date.php

Thanks, but that's not quite it...le tme try to be more clear:

I have these dates on the page,
high season = 12/15/01 - 4/15/02
low season = 4/16/02 - 12/14/02

OK, in April I'm goign to have to change the dates for high season to
reflect the coming year (2003). What I want to do is:
get todays date
if its low season
	display high season as happening next year
	display low season as this year
if its high season
	display high season as this year
	display low season as happening next year

*BINGO* :)

Sorry...just needed to listen to myself think for a minute.

<tip type="recycled">
pressing TAB in photoshop hides all palettes, pressing again displays them.
Nice for getting everything out of your way while working on a low res
laptop :)
</tip>

jpc




From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org  Wed Dec 26 13:16:10 2001
From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford)
Date: Wed Dec 26 13:16:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
Message-ID: <A33073326362D411B6B900902745F4011FF616@BARBELL>

> I have these dates on the page,
> high season = 12/15/01 - 4/15/02
> low season = 4/16/02 - 12/14/02

Have you considered changing the wording to:

high season = December 15 through April 15
low season = April 16 through December 14

That way you could just leave it be, and not worry about today's date at
all.

Best Wishes,

Rebecca Milot-Bradford
NSCA Web Administrator
Rmilot-bradford at nsca-lift.org
719-632-6722
www.nsca-lift.org
 



From seahorse at inreach.com  Wed Dec 26 13:25:23 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Wed Dec 26 13:25:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F3@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c18e43$36a8a6e0$e09efea9@dual700>

Try ../home.html.  it needs to kick up one level, but not into the contact
folder.

Happy holidays,

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortune Elkins" <fortune_elkins at summithq.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?


> hiya!
>
> hope you all are enjoying this holiday season.
>
> changing my page footer to an SSI. in testing, DW doesn't see the site
> relative links to the home page.
>
> <a href="/contact/home.html">contact</a> works fine.
> <a href="/home.html">home</a> doesn't work.
>
> DW take the /home.html link and tries to go the wwwroot folder of the web
> server, not the homepage of the site. why?
>
> please help -- i need to get this up this afternoon.
>
> tia,
>
> f





From Ron.Luther at compaq.com  Wed Dec 26 13:40:22 2001
From: Ron.Luther at compaq.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Dec 26 13:40:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F41D@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi John,

I'm still a PHP newbie. (I think I could get this working in ASP or
something else pretty quickly - but my PHP is kinda weak yet.)

Anyway, here's a way to pull off the current date in PHP:

http://members.evolt.org/ronl/RLPHP/my_time.php

The extracted code is ...

<?php
$rltime = gmdate("m/d/y",time());
$rlmonth = gmdate("m", time());
$rlday = gmdate("d", time());
?>

Results of time quest <b><?php echo($rltime); ?></b><hr>

The month is <?php echo($rlmonth); ?><br>
The day is <?php echo($rlday); ?>


I'll let you build the comparison branching.

'zat help any?


RonL.


-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: [thelist] php date

> I have these dates on the page,
> high season = 12/15/01 - 4/15/02
> low season = 4/16/02 - 12/14/02




From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Dec 26 15:21:18 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Dec 26 15:21:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] DW4 & SSI -- root relative links not working correctly?
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B68F4@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c18e55$0aaa93c0$38602241@tampabay.rr.com>

>i need to create one file that will work anywhere in the website

I guess I may have misunderstood what your trying to do.  Just to clarify,
do I understand that you have several sub directories, each with a home.html
and your trying to make an SSI specific to linking to one main home page
from each of the home.html?

Are you trying to do something like I have here on www.calvarylargo.org ,
look at the text links in each page at the bottom.

If your including a SSI, make sure that the pages your including it on have
an .shtml extension. When you preview in browser mode locally, you won't see
the SSI so you may want to upload a page or two to the server and test it.
If your coding in the correct path for your link, it should work from
anywhere in the site.

Are you naming your home page as "home.html" or "index.html"?

I hope this has been somewhat helpful,

Bob



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From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Wed Dec 26 15:25:28 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Wed Dec 26 15:25:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem creating a style in Fireworks
Message-ID: <v02140b05b84ff08a47e1@[10.112.254.249]>

At 10:05 AM 12/22/1, Bob Boisvert wrote:
> This particular style I'm trying to create now is more complex using
> strokes and effects to give the appearance of the colored portion of
> the eye.  For some reason I won't save as a style.  Does anybody
> have an idea why?

I'm not sure what's precisely different from expectation there, but your
mention of "stroke" makes me wonder if you're trying to put an actual curve
in a style, which won't work... Fireworks can use any combination of fill
type & color, stroke type & color, Live Effect and text attributes, but it
doesn't really hold a curve so much as apply attributes to a curve. To hold
an actual shape we'd use a symbol, a library element.

Hmm, you might have one of those categories disabled from the "New Style"
dialog box, but I'm really grasping at straws here trying to guess the
problem, sorry.

How do you do on the one-or-all-styles test? If you can never create *any*
style now then that points to a different type of cause than if it's this
one particular thingy which isn't acting as expected. This may be the
fastest way to move forward again...?

jd






John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Dec 26 15:52:20 2001
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Wed Dec 26 15:52:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem creating a style in Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <v02140b05b84ff08a47e1@[10.112.254.249]>
Message-ID: <000e01c18e59$5fc7fce0$38602241@tampabay.rr.com>

Hi JD,

This issue has been taken care of.  Basically the problem was that I had to
many objects in the style I was trying to create.  A style in Fireworks
can't be created with more than one layer and more than one object, however,
the number of effects doesn't matter.

This particular style was that of an eye and I made it a little more complex
than I should have for a new style, the styles I had done in the past were
simple gradients.

If your interested in what I came up with I'd be glad to send it to you
offline.

Thanks,
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of John Dowdell
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 4:29 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Problem creating a style in Fireworks


At 10:05 AM 12/22/1, Bob Boisvert wrote:
> This particular style I'm trying to create now is more complex using
> strokes and effects to give the appearance of the colored portion of
> the eye.  For some reason I won't save as a style.  Does anybody
> have an idea why?

I'm not sure what's precisely different from expectation there, but your
mention of "stroke" makes me wonder if you're trying to put an actual curve
in a style, which won't work... Fireworks can use any combination of fill
type & color, stroke type & color, Live Effect and text attributes, but it
doesn't really hold a curve so much as apply attributes to a curve. To hold
an actual shape we'd use a symbol, a library element.

Hmm, you might have one of those categories disabled from the "New Style"
dialog box, but I'm really grasping at straws here trying to guess the
problem, sorry.

How do you do on the one-or-all-styles test? If you can never create *any*
style now then that points to a different type of cause than if it's this
one particular thingy which isn't acting as expected. This may be the
fastest way to move forward again...?

jd






John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/



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From aericks at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 20:22:54 2001
From: aericks at yahoo.com (A. Erickson)
Date: Wed Dec 26 20:22:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question
Message-ID: <20011227022440.19608.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com>

> Yep, it can be done. I've posted a tip about this -
> ice ;)
> (so that Outlook users on this list would stop >
replying to a message 
without context :P )

> You can read it here:
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3822

Thanks, Dove, but that's not it. I've got the little >
working just fine. It's the "written by" or "from"
line. Other email programs add it automatically. Some
people have really fancy ones.

For example, yours says: "At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001,
Amanda typed these words." How do I do that?

- amanda


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From djc at members.evolt.org  Wed Dec 26 22:49:36 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Wed Dec 26 22:49:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112262249310.1077-100000@leo.evolt.org>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:23:56 -0800 (PST)
From: A. Erickson <aericks at yahoo.com>
To: thelist at evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question


> Yep, it can be done. I've posted a tip about this -
> ice ;)
> (so that Outlook users on this list would stop >
replying to a message
without context :P )

> You can read it here:
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/_/d/3822

Thanks, Dove, but that's not it. I've got the little >
working just fine. It's the "written by" or "from"
line. Other email programs add it automatically. Some
people have really fancy ones.

For example, yours says: "At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001,
Amanda typed these words." How do I do that?

- amanda


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com




From vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com  Thu Dec 27 04:42:25 2001
From: vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com (Vic Wooten)
Date: Thu Dec 27 04:42:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Sulfnbk.exe Warning...Off Topic, But....
Message-ID: <000d01c18ec3$6e2d1620$0200a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9>

Hey Folks,

Just in case you missed it the first time around;

Several months back there was an email being spread around like wildfire
about the Sulfnbk virus. It was a hoax. Needless to say, a considerable
number of people actually deleted the Sulfnbk.exe file from their systems
because of this hoax.

That same hoax is circulating again. Yesterday one of the "owners/techs"
(tech part may be questionable at this point in time!)at the computer shop I
work in received the email forward from his daughter and proceeded to remove
the file from his, hers, and two shop machines.

A word of caution though...even though I "know" it's not necessary to
caution you enlightened people against email attachments; "Some"
unscrupulous individual/s decided to take advantage of the hoax/scare, and
renamed the executable for the virus/worm W32.Magistr.24876 at mm . The worm
can arrive as an attachment named Sulfnbk.exe.

>From Symantec:

Sulfnbk.exe Warning

The Sulfnbk.exe Warning message has been sent out by email. It is a
hoax and should be ignored. The virus does not exist. A hoax is
usually an email message that gets mailed in chain letter fashion
describing an unlikely type of virus. While this particular email
message is a hoax, the file that is mentioned in the hoax,
Sulfnbk.exe, is a Microsoft Windows utility that is used to restore
long file names. If you get an email message that mentions the
Sulfnbk.exe virus and asks you to delete the Sulfnbk.exe file and
forward the warning to everyone in your address book, please ignore
the email message and delete it. For complete information about the
Sulfnbk.exe hoax and sample Sulfnbk.exe email messages, point your
browser to:

http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/vURL.cgi/nav112

Vic
------
Vic Wooten
Computer Specialist
Computers & Peripherals Unlimited, Inc
"My specialty is OS/Virus recovery"




From Matt at grndwtr.com  Thu Dec 27 08:08:22 2001
From: Matt at grndwtr.com (Matthias Ritzkowski)
Date: Thu Dec 27 08:08:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question
Message-ID: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B0128007AF62@mail1>

Amanda
You need to set the mail format to html or rtf before this becomes
available.
I would not recommend html though ...
Matthias

-------

Thanks, Dove, but that's not it. I've got the little >
working just fine. It's the "written by" or "from"
line. Other email programs add it automatically. Some
people have really fancy ones.

For example, yours says: "At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001,
Amanda typed these words." How do I do that?

- amanda
 



From evolt at spinhead.com  Thu Dec 27 09:21:15 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Thu Dec 27 09:21:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question
References: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B0128007AF62@mail1>
Message-ID: <003001c18eea$59049ad0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Mine's set to HTML (on Outlook, which I use in the office, not OL Express,
which I use for list mail.) This option is nowhere to be found. Gonna check
at the MS site, but I suspect it just ain't there.

joel
_  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _
They're mixing with the population
A virus wearing pumps and pearls


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Ritzkowski" <Matt at grndwtr.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:08 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question


> Amanda
> You need to set the mail format to html or rtf before this becomes
> available.
> I would not recommend html though ...
> Matthias
>
> -------
>
> Thanks, Dove, but that's not it. I've got the little >
> working just fine. It's the "written by" or "from"
> line. Other email programs add it automatically. Some
> people have really fancy ones.
>
> For example, yours says: "At 06:03 PM 12/24/2001,
> Amanda typed these words." How do I do that?
>
> - amanda
>
>




From aleem at mindless.com  Thu Dec 27 11:00:38 2001
From: aleem at mindless.com (Aleem)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:00:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHGEBPDEAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>
Message-ID: <001901c18c4e$5724ece0$0100a8c0@UrDaDDY>

> Does anybody know of any domain name registrars whose terms 
> of service specifically recognize the customer as owner of the name?

http://www.domainnamebuyersguide.com





From ckanderson at powersurfr.com  Thu Dec 27 11:00:39 2001
From: ckanderson at powersurfr.com (Christian Anderson)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:00:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the database...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112240626430.31312-100000@hagbard.io.com>
Message-ID: <001701c18c8a$4bd4d760$9f89c63d@chris>

Hi everyone,

I am adding a thing to allow people to leave comments about the photos on my
website, and have just thought of something that I dont know how to do :)

If there are no comments for the photo, is there a way to make it say "there
is nothing, be the first to comment!"?  Like if the script looks in the
database and finds there is no comments for that photo, can it just say
that, and skip all the rest of the stuff?

Is that clear as mud or what?  heh... Im just too tired to write properly
right now.  I think that you will kinda understand what I mean though :)

Christian Anderson
URL: http://www.photokyo.com





From mark at mountain.ch  Thu Dec 27 11:00:42 2001
From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:00:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Javascript "this" Question
In-Reply-To: <20011221145059.14891.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
Message-ID: <B84CB870.26E2%mark@mountain.ch>

> josh (evolt at efeingold.com) wrote:

> <script language=JavaScript>
> function hidden() {
> values = this.value
> }
> </script> 

One of the more common ways of using 'this' is as follows.

<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
<!--
function checkMe(){
  if(this.value!=""&&confirm("Clear field?")){
  this.value=""}
}
//-->
</script>

<form name="login">
<input type="text" name="username" onclick="checkMe()">
</form>

'this' relates to the element which currently has focus; in the example, the
form field 'username'.

Regards
Mark Howells
Working in a Winter Wonderland
http://www.mark.ac







From frederic.roland at roland-dev.com  Thu Dec 27 11:00:45 2001
From: frederic.roland at roland-dev.com (Frédéric ROLAND)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:00:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHGEBPDEAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>
Message-ID: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOAEBBDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>

I think that www.gandi.net recognize the customer as owner of the name.

Fr?d?ric Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ed McCarroll
Sent: vendredi 21 d?cembre 2001 17:58
To: Thelist
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership


Does anybody know of any domain name registrars whose terms of service
specifically recognize the customer as owner of the name?

If so, are they otherwise OK?

Thanks,

  Ed McCarroll, mailto:Ed at ComSimplicity.com




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From nicole at parrot.ca  Thu Dec 27 11:14:50 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:14:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
References: <001901c18c4e$5724ece0$0100a8c0@UrDaDDY>
Message-ID: <000101c18ef9$d8dc4640$7d28cb18@videotron.ca>

> > Does anybody know of any domain name registrars whose terms 
> > of service specifically recognize the customer as owner of the name?

As opposed to what? You mean I am not the owner of my domain name? 
I'm sorry, I'm jumping into this a bit late...

Nicole





From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com  Thu Dec 27 11:14:51 2001
From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:14:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the database...
In-Reply-To: <001701c18c8a$4bd4d760$9f89c63d@chris>
Message-ID: <NEBBKCEJCCAGFCCPLJNHCEKMCKAA.paul.backhouse@2cs.com>

I normally use this:

<%
If objRS.Eof AND objRS.Bof Then
%>
Sorry, there are no comments about this photo
<%
Else
%>
what ever you want to do here
<%
End If
%>

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Christian Anderson
Sent: 24 December 2001 14:49
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the
database...


Hi everyone,

I am adding a thing to allow people to leave comments about the photos on my
website, and have just thought of something that I dont know how to do :)

If there are no comments for the photo, is there a way to make it say "there
is nothing, be the first to comment!"?  Like if the script looks in the
database and finds there is no comments for that photo, can it just say
that, and skip all the rest of the stuff?

Is that clear as mud or what?  heh... Im just too tired to write properly
right now.  I think that you will kinda understand what I mean though :)

Christian Anderson
URL: http://www.photokyo.com



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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 11:15:40 2001
From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Thu Dec 27 11:15:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Window Attributes
Message-ID: <003301c18efa$73ed8a40$c40587cb@pakcomp>

Hello Everybody,
In Windows environment, we double click the icon of a locally saved web page
to open it. For such web page is it possible for JavaScript to control its
window attributes (Toolbar, Address Bar etc.) when we open the web page by
double clicking its icon. If it is possible then please tell me the JS code
for this. I guess such script must be put in head section of the web page.
Am I right?
Thank you,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From webguru at vsnl.net  Thu Dec 27 13:17:23 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Thu Dec 27 13:17:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228003953.01b217e0@203.197.12.4>

I run Win2K professional and have ALL patches and service packs installed. 
(I check for updates every 3 days.)

A problem has surfaced in the last couple of days. When I dial into my ISP, 
the Dialup Networking window goes from "Dialing" to "Verifying username and 
password" to "Registering your computer on the Network" - all like it 
should go.

But at the last step, my PC's CPU usage shoots up to 100% (even if I have 
nothing else running) and when I check in Task Manager, it's "services.exe" 
(the app that manages connections) that's hogging the CPU. So what should 
be a 5 second step takes 1-2 minutes.

The problem repeats itself when I right click the connection icon in the 
system tray and click on "Disconnect". The CPU use again shoot up to 100% 
for a minute or two before it disconnects.

This problem was identified by Microsoft as a bug and resolved in Service 
Pack 1. I've got Service Pack 2 installed so I shouldn't have any issues.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

TIA,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From evolt at efeingold.com  Thu Dec 27 14:48:22 2001
From: evolt at efeingold.com (josh)
Date: Thu Dec 27 14:48:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the database...
Message-ID: <20011227172442.31608.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>

It depends on the query you use to access the data which depends on the 
structure of the database. 

If the recordset is returned with multiple columns, you would want to test 
for a null value in the recordset of that column.  Use the isnull function. 

e.g. 

if isnull(rs("test")) then
response.write("Be the first to add a comment...")
end if 

Josh




From gsd at members.evolt.org  Thu Dec 27 14:48:23 2001
From: gsd at members.evolt.org (gsd)
Date: Thu Dec 27 14:48:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <000101c18ef9$d8dc4640$7d28cb18@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <B850C363.653C%gsd@members.evolt.org>

it depends on your registrar. gandi explicity states that the registrant is
the owner. netsol on the other hand says that you are just renting the name
from them and they or who know who? owns it. there are various shades in
between, some registrars say nothing.

but gandi has the best TOS by far for com net and org AFAIK.

george
http://cyklotron.com/
cyklotron: a gringo in medellin, colombia
PGP Key: http://www.cyklotron.com/about/pgpPublicKey

> From: "Nicole Parrot" <nicole at parrot.ca>

> As opposed to what? You mean I am not the owner of my domain name?
> I'm sorry, I'm jumping into this a bit late...





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Thu Dec 27 14:56:35 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Thu Dec 27 14:56:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the database...
References: <20011227172442.31608.qmail@elara.affordablehost.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c18f19$35981c00$95aa2642@aci.on.ca>

Hey Josh,

Is there an advantage to using your approach as opposed to the one Paul
suggested, which was

"If objRS.Eof AND objRS.Bof Then"

?

Personally, I use Paul's approach .. but I'm always eager to learn
new/better ways to doing things if they exist.

What do others do/prefer ?


Thanks,

Michele
(p.s.  for some odd reason your message was held in the queue awaiting
approval .. not sure why that is though .. mime type perhaps?)


----- Original Message -----
From: "josh" <evolt at efeingold.com>

| It depends on the query you use to access the data which depends on the
| structure of the database.
|
| If the recordset is returned with multiple columns, you would want to test
| for a null value in the recordset of that column.  Use the isnull
function.
|
| e.g.
|
| if isnull(rs("test")) then
| response.write("Be the first to add a comment...")
| end if







From jg3_savage at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 15:10:17 2001
From: jg3_savage at yahoo.com (Chad Savage)
Date: Thu Dec 27 15:10:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT - kinda] Good Email Client for Lists? [Was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112262249310.1077-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <003301c18f1b$4ef8c620$6601a8c0@mcleodusa.net>

Rather than fight with OL or OLXpress anymore, can somebody recommend a
good, solid Win98 email client that lends itself to the kind of sorting and
filtering one needs when one belongs to a number of discussion lists?

I'm ready to try something else...

Thankee!

Chad



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com  Thu Dec 27 15:42:33 2001
From: vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com (Vic Wooten)
Date: Thu Dec 27 15:42:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] [OT - kinda] Good Email Client for Lists? [Was: Offtopic: Outlook - dumb question]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112262249310.1077-100000@leo.evolt.org> <003301c18f1b$4ef8c620$6601a8c0@mcleodusa.net>
Message-ID: <000601c18f1f$a2ef8990$0200a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9>

Chad,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Savage" <jg3_savage at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 4:13 PM
Subject: [thelist] [OT - kinda] Good Email Client for Lists? [Was: Offtopic:
Outlook - dumb question]


> Rather than fight with OL or OLXpress anymore, can somebody recommend a
> good, solid Win98 email client that lends itself to the kind of sorting
and
> filtering one needs when one belongs to a number of discussion lists?
>
> I'm ready to try something else...

Try Pegasus.

http://www.pmail.com/

Vic

> Thankee!
>
> Chad




From bharoche at usa.net  Thu Dec 27 16:02:15 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Thu Dec 27 16:02:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228003953.01b217e0@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <002601c18f22$64a2dea0$9865fea9@Laptop>

Hi Madhu,

I had a similar problem with Cold Fusion hogging all my resources but that
was related to the ntconsole.exe as the problem.  Here's a Google groups
search result that might lead you to an answer.

http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&q=services%2Eexe+100%25+c
pu

(watch the wrap)

HTH.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From jg3_savage at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 16:13:04 2001
From: jg3_savage at yahoo.com (Chad Savage)
Date: Thu Dec 27 16:13:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
References: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOAEBBDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>
Message-ID: <001901c18f1a$bdbebc00$6601a8c0@mcleodusa.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fr?d?ric ROLAND" <frederic.roland at roland-dev.com>
>
> I think that www.gandi.net recognize the customer as owner of the name.
>
> Fr?d?ric Roland

...just as long as you speak French?

========================================================================

"Due to a configuration error of your software, our server was not able to
give you the document in your language.
To be able to use content negotiation, please correctly configure your
browser by specifying your language.

With Netscape, you need to go to the following menus : Edit, Preferences,
Navigator, Languages.
With Internet Explorer, please go to : Tools (ou Extras), Internet Options,
Languages.

By specifying the language in which you want to see the web pages, our
server will be able to give you the English or French version (according to
your choices) of documents.

For more details on this standard : http://www.debian.org/intro/cn.en "

========================================================================

...or am I missing something?

Chad



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From scotts at rci-nv.com  Thu Dec 27 16:13:05 2001
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Thu Dec 27 16:13:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the 
	database...
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A25C0@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michele Foster [mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca]
>
> Hey Josh,
> 
> Is there an advantage to using your approach as opposed to 
> the one Paul
> suggested, which was
> 
> "If objRS.Eof AND objRS.Bof Then"
> 
> Personally, I use Paul's approach .. but I'm always eager to learn
> new/better ways to doing things if they exist. 
> What do others do/prefer ?

	This depends entirely on the query you use and your database
structure. If your database has a tblComments and your query is "SELECT *
FROM tblComments WHERE ArticleID = 5;", then your recordset will have only
comments in it. And, if there are no comments, objRS.EOF wil be True.
	If, though, you have a simpler database structure, where there is a
tblArticles and the comments are stored in one of the fields, then you'll
want to use Josh's method. Your recordset won't be empty; there will still
be the Title and Author and the text of the article in the recordset, so
objRS.EOF would be False. But, the comments field would be empty. Then
Josh's method will just check the one field, rather than the whole
recordset.
	Josh's method depends on the database you are using, too. Some
databases (like MS Access) store empty text fields as a Zero-Length String,
not Null. IsNull would return False, so instead you'd have to use:  If
rs("Comments") = "" Then....




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Thu Dec 27 17:19:55 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Thu Dec 27 17:19:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP Question: If there is nothing to pull from the 
 database...
In-Reply-To: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B61A25C0@SERVER1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0112271717430.6821-100000@scooter.webservepro.com>

On Dec 27, Scott Schrantz had something to say about RE: [thelist] ASP...

>	If, though, you have a simpler database structure, where there is a
>tblArticles and the comments are stored in one of the fields, 

But, you'd never do that, would you?

it is not a good thing to try to stick a 1-many relationship into a single
table.

>	Josh's method depends on the database you are using, too. Some
>databases (like MS Access) store empty text fields as a Zero-Length String,
>not Null. IsNull would return False, so instead you'd have to use:  If
>rs("Comments") = "" Then....

This isn't totally accurate. You have to set a field to allow zero-length
strings. That just means that "" is a valid value for the field. You can
still insert NULL. If you don't check the "allow zero-length
strings" checkbox, all that means is that you can't insert an empty
string.

It's up to your code whether you want to treat "" the same as a NULL
value.

<tip>
If you can avoid returning a recordset from the database tables, that's
generally a good thing. So, if all you're doing is spitting out a "See
comments" link, but you only want to display it if there are comments for
that article, try something like this:

SELECT 1 FROM comment WHERE articleid=123;

Why 'SELECT 1'? If you are just looking for a boolean response like
whether or not there are comments for article number 123, the values in
the recordset is irrelevant, just whether or not there IS something
returned. So, it's generally faster to return a literal like 1 than a
value from a table. THis means that you might get a resultset like this:

+-------+
|   1   |
+-------+
|   1   |
|   1   |
|   1   |
|   1   |
+-------+

But, that's okay if all you want to know is whether there are comments for
that article. Hell, if you can get a recordcount of the resultset in your
language of choice (without cycling through the resultset with a counter),
then you know exactly how many comments there are (4 in this case).

So, your pseudo-code would be:

if resultset.hasRecords() then
	print '<a ...>View Comments (' + resultset.recordcount() +')</a>'
else
	print 'no comments for this article'
end if

Here, that code would spit out:

<a ...>View Comments (4)</a>

All this without opening the recordset at all.

</tip>

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com





From lawrence at carriere.uni.cc  Thu Dec 27 20:31:26 2001
From: lawrence at carriere.uni.cc (Lawrence Carriere)
Date: Thu Dec 27 20:31:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] dbtools
Message-ID: <001401c18f48$4d46fe00$39f44f18@ed.shawcable.net>

Hello!

Does anyone know the correct procedure to connect to one's Evolt MySQL
database via dbTools?

Thanks, Lawrence




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Thu Dec 27 21:32:34 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Thu Dec 27 21:32:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228003953.01b217e0@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011227222649.02bbcd78@mail.idirect.ca>

At 12:47 AM 12/28/2001 +0530, you wrote:
>I run Win2K professional and have ALL patches and service packs installed. 
>(I check for updates every 3 days.)
>
>A problem has surfaced in the last couple of days. When I dial into my 
>ISP, the Dialup Networking window goes from "Dialing" to "Verifying 
>username and password" to "Registering your computer on the Network" - all 
>like it should go.
>
>But at the last step, my PC's CPU usage shoots up to 100% (even if I have 
>nothing else running) and when I check in Task Manager, it's 
>"services.exe" (the app that manages connections) that's hogging the CPU. 
>So what should be a 5 second step takes 1-2 minutes.
>
>The problem repeats itself when I right click the connection icon in the 
>system tray and click on "Disconnect". The CPU use again shoot up to 100% 
>for a minute or two before it disconnects.

How long have you had win2k running since the last reformat/reinstall?  Do 
you have the "RPC locator" service running as well?  If so, then disable 
it.  If it's not a server then I would recommend a reinstallation.  HTH

Peter Kaulback




From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Dec 28 09:35:59 2001
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Dec 28 09:35:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <B850C363.653C%gsd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <01ee01c18f79$89b3c7c0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> it depends on your registrar. gandi explicity states that the
> registrant is
> the owner. netsol on the other hand says that you are just
> renting the name
> from them and they or who know who? owns it. there are
> various shades in
> between, some registrars say nothing.
>
> but gandi has the best TOS by far for com net and org AFAIK.

Yeah, it's because of its history and philosophy, and it's good IMHO.

I won't bother all of you with the details here but if someone's interested
in knowing gandi a little better I'm ready to explain via direct email.





From gsd at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec 28 09:36:02 2001
From: gsd at members.evolt.org (gsd)
Date: Fri Dec 28 09:36:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
Message-ID: <B85148BD.657D%gsd@members.evolt.org>

i just loaded it and it came up in english. but then i have english
specified as my default language.

looks like the language selection script is choking on your browser. try
following the instructions to get it to work or use a different browser?
strange tho, that that would happen...

george
http://cyklotron.com/
cyklotron: a gringo in medellin, colombia
PGP Key: http://www.cyklotron.com/about/pgpPublicKey

> From: "Chad Savage" <jg3_savage at yahoo.com>

> With Netscape, you need to go to the following menus : Edit, Preferences,
> Navigator, Languages.
> With Internet Explorer, please go to : Tools (ou Extras), Internet Options,
> Languages.
> 
> By specifying the language in which you want to see the web pages, our
> server will be able to give you the English or French version (according to
> your choices) of documents.





From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec 28 11:10:53 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Dec 28 11:10:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] dbtools
References: <001401c18f48$4d46fe00$39f44f18@ed.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <3C2C8FA4.2060102@members.evolt.org>

Hi Lawrence -

Currently the only method for connecting to a members.evolt.org MySQL 
database is through phpMyAdmin, which is already set up and ready to go 
at http://members.evolt.org/phpMyAdmin

Connecting to MySQL from outside evolts network(as it looks like you 
tried last night) isn't allowed for security reasons.. Let me know if 
you have any other questions :)

.djc.

Lawrence Carriere wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Does anyone know the correct procedure to connect to one's Evolt MySQL
> database via dbTools?
> 
> Thanks, Lawrence






From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Fri Dec 28 11:10:58 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Fri Dec 28 11:10:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache and SSL
Message-ID: <3C2C8AFD.EAC1ECE4@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

Dear evolt,
We are currently running Apache on one of our web servers, and we need
to install a security certificate on it. My question is, do I need
Apache SSL for that? I'm currently running the plain vanilla flavor of
the web server.

Also, we are planning on going to a clustered server. Will we need to
purchase more certificates for each cluster? Or will we need only one
since the data is shared by each node?

I really appreciate any information you can send this way. Thanks.

Minh Lee Goon
-------------
Web Administrator
Information Technology Services
South Dakota State University
Brookings, South Dakota



From cewing at mooremedical.com  Fri Dec 28 11:29:26 2001
From: cewing at mooremedical.com (Ewing, Christopher)
Date: Fri Dec 28 11:29:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
Message-ID: <E2C69736017ED511A6BF00508BB93CCE0151ACA3@MAILSERV1>

We are using CFLocation pretty extensively throughout our site and recently
we have seen occasions where a user's browser will hang in what looks like
the CFLocation process.

I've seen suggestions to use CFHeader instead with a 0 refresh, but this is
a bit unsightly.

Are there any other methods that can be used to redirect a person to another
page inside CF (without using Javascript)?



From athenaj at rogers.com  Fri Dec 28 11:51:22 2001
From: athenaj at rogers.com (Athena Janiszewski)
Date: Fri Dec 28 11:51:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
In-Reply-To: <E2C69736017ED511A6BF00508BB93CCE0151ACA3@MAILSERV1>
Message-ID: <NEBBJDBFGLNGEJDDBAODGEEFDHAA.athenaj@rogers.com>

Why not just use a meta refresh tag?

<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT="0;URL=http://whatever.com">

Athena

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ewing, Christopher
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:00 AM
> To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
>
>
> We are using CFLocation pretty extensively throughout our site
> and recently
> we have seen occasions where a user's browser will hang in what looks like
> the CFLocation process.
>
> I've seen suggestions to use CFHeader instead with a 0 refresh,
> but this is
> a bit unsightly.
>
> Are there any other methods that can be used to redirect a person
> to another
> page inside CF (without using Javascript)?
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From chris at fuseware.com  Fri Dec 28 12:07:54 2001
From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans)
Date: Fri Dec 28 12:07:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
In-Reply-To: <E2C69736017ED511A6BF00508BB93CCE0151ACA3@MAILSERV1>
Message-ID: <000501c18fc1$1e748f60$8f5f800a@VSCLTCOL0054>

There isn't really a good substitute for CFLOCATION, other than possibly a
CFHEADER as you already mentioned.

I wonder what might be causing a browser to hang using CFLOCATION.  I've
used it for years with no problems. All it does is send a 302 redirect
header to the browser and abort processing.  Is it possible some of the code
around the CFLOCATION is causing your problems? Are you possibly trying to
use CFCOOKIE before the CFLOCATION?  That is a known issue with CFLOCATION -
the cookie never gets set.


Chris Evans
chris at fuseware.com
http://www.fuseware.com



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ewing, Christopher
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:00 AM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]


We are using CFLocation pretty extensively throughout our site and recently
we have seen occasions where a user's browser will hang in what looks like
the CFLocation process.

I've seen suggestions to use CFHeader instead with a 0 refresh, but this is
a bit unsightly.

Are there any other methods that can be used to redirect a person to another
page inside CF (without using Javascript)?

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From djc at members.evolt.org  Fri Dec 28 12:24:01 2001
From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Dec 28 12:24:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: site header and logo

I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.

The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)

I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
grey-green but it's not quite right.

any ideas????

some examples and screenshot

http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm


/**************************************
Amy Gilliland
GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
Web Developer/Programmer
agilliland at geosolutions.com
http://www.geosolutions.com
http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com




From evolt at spinhead.com  Fri Dec 28 12:32:03 2001
From: evolt at spinhead.com (spinhead)
Date: Fri Dec 28 12:32:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <002701c18fc4$53bc83f0$3b0a000a@HEISENBERG>

Something about the swooping curve in the second one appeals to me. After a
minute, it's almost obvious it's just a cutout for the logo, but at first it
looks like a design element.

We have the same issue, and we've always just lived with the great expanses
of whiteness. I like this idea better.

spinhead
_  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _
They're mixing with the population
A virus wearing pumps and pearls


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:24 AM
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)


>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
> From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
> To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: site header and logo
>
> I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.
>
> The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
> will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)
>
> I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
> grey-green but it's not quite right.
>
> any ideas????
>
> some examples and screenshot
>
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm
>
>
> /**************************************
> Amy Gilliland
> GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
> Web Developer/Programmer
> agilliland at geosolutions.com
> http://www.geosolutions.com
> http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com
>




From persist1 at io.com  Fri Dec 28 12:36:34 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Fri Dec 28 12:36:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112281118570.7982-100000@hagbard.io.com>

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> any ideas????
>
> some examples and screenshot
>
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm

We-ell, my vote is for the second header displayed, with the following
changes:

1.  Put a heavy outline around the part of the upper-left ellipse that's
    inside the notional canvas, suggestive of a drop shadow without
    actually being one.

2.  Saturate the rest of the greens.

3.  Enlarge the nav type slightly, and reset it in mixed case.

4.  Change the color of the tab holding those links from burgundy to a
    terracotta (read: suggestive of colors one might see on a topo map),
    perhaps with embellishment (faux contours?) in the same vein.
    Preserve the existing contrast.

Whee - too many times I watched GIS specialists scratch their heads about
how to get their data on the Web, back when it was too primitive for
anything to be genuinely affordable.


Good luck,
-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"





From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Fri Dec 28 12:45:26 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Fri Dec 28 12:45:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C2CAEAE.63611EFD@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

I vote for the fouth one. With the content bordered at the top and left
by the navigation links, the content is somewhat separated from the
header, giving it an illusion of layers. I think the the top left logo
should be larger. I would suggest resizing it so that the exclamation
mark is as high as the header and the text size equally as high less the
height of the red navigation bar. Let it overlap the text and dotted
arrow.


> any ideas????
> 
> some examples and screenshot
> 
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm

Minh Lee Goon
-------------
Web Administrator
Information Technology Services
South Dakota State University
Brookings, South Dakota



From amccoy at goodmanct.com  Fri Dec 28 13:01:11 2001
From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan)
Date: Fri Dec 28 13:01:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622EF3C@admin.admin.goodmanct.com>

Header # 2.

Alan

> some examples and screenshot
> 
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Fri Dec 28 13:08:20 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Fri Dec 28 13:08:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA3920041261FB@arnold.bedrock.com>

Christopher noted:

+| we have seen occasions where a user's browser will hang in 
+| what looks like
+| the CFLocation process.

This happens to me when I do complex redirects... a CFLOCATION to a page
which does a CFLOCATION to the previous page -- in effect a run-away loop --
consistently hangs the browser...

What sometimes causes the occasional behavior is a conditional branch to the
CFLOCATION, like, for instance, I have a login page which sends credentials
to a security module, which does a CFLOCATION to the login page when
credentials don't pass muster. I had set the cookie wrong once, or
something, and the login page would subsequently hit the security module
with the bad creds, and start the vicious loop again... the browser would
hang only if there were bad creds stored. After I introduced code to clean
this up, it got better!

<rory disposition="overworked... and rushed, the no-list police are
breathing at my back!" alt="8o"/>



From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Fri Dec 28 13:26:02 2001
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt)
Date: Fri Dec 28 13:26:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C2CC766.5FB832D5@lightbulbpress.com>

#2

"Daniel J. Cody" wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
> From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
> To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: site header and logo
>
> I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.
>
> The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
> will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)
>
> I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
> grey-green but it's not quite right.
>
> any ideas????
>
> some examples and screenshot
>
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm
>
> /**************************************
> Amy Gilliland
> GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
> Web Developer/Programmer
> agilliland at geosolutions.com
> http://www.geosolutions.com
> http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From seahorse at inreach.com  Fri Dec 28 15:03:57 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Fri Dec 28 15:03:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001101c18fe3$13428800$e09efea9@dual700>

My  2 cents:

I like #2.  I do not like gradients like in #4. For chenages, I would not
stretch out consulting under GeoSolutions.  I would right align it under the
name and give geosolutions name a 2d or 3d effect to bring it out of the
background.. I like the different colors for the logo and what they do(the
black and green)...it stands out nicely, but  I don't necessarily like the
different shades of green together on the page...too many colors.  If you
did the title (logo) and the "solutions for a spatial world" in the same
shade of green I think it might tie it together.

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at members.evolt.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:24 AM
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)


>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
> From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
> To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: site header and logo
>
> I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.
>
> The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
> will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)
>
> I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
> grey-green but it's not quite right.
>
> any ideas????
>
> some examples and screenshot
>
> http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm
>
>
> /**************************************
> Amy Gilliland
> GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
> Web Developer/Programmer
> agilliland at geosolutions.com
> http://www.geosolutions.com
> http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From frederic.roland at roland-dev.com  Fri Dec 28 16:14:01 2001
From: frederic.roland at roland-dev.com (Frédéric ROLAND)
Date: Fri Dec 28 16:14:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Amazon associate tools ?
In-Reply-To: <001901c18f1a$bdbebc00$6601a8c0@mcleodusa.net>
Message-ID: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOKEBPDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>

I'm looking for tools or source code to use with
my Amazon Associate account, does somebody know
of something interesting ?

Regards,
Fr?d?ric Roland




From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Dec 28 16:28:53 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Dec 28 16:28:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] [Cold Fusion Question]
Message-ID: <01c18fc2$475ba3e0$1c4c149a@rudy>

> Are there any other methods that can be used to redirect a person
> to another page inside CF (without using Javascript)?

hi chris

this may not fit your current problem ("using CFLocation pretty extensively
throughout our site"), but the answer your question is yes

cfinclude can accomplish a "redirection" in the sense that you can choose
the page that you want to "end up" on

every time i've seen cflocation, its action has been predicated upon some
decision, usually in a <cfif> -- e.g. has the user logged in?  if not,
cflocation to login page

you can take exactly the same strategy but use cfinclude instead, to
cfinclude the login page rather than "going" there

if you see what i mean

;o)


rudy




From poojie at dccnet.com  Fri Dec 28 16:45:09 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Daryl Grant)
Date: Fri Dec 28 16:45:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache and SSL
In-Reply-To: <3C2C8AFD.EAC1ECE4@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c150a8$8c4bf300$0300a8c0@local.solutious.com>

Quote:-------------------------
We are currently running Apache on one of our web servers, and we need
to install a security certificate on it. My question is, do I need
Apache SSL for that? 
-------------------------------

I am not sure if the process is any different for Windows, but under
*nix (FreeBSD) the installation of Apache-SSL
(http://www.apache-ssl.org/) took care of the certificate creation. You
_will_ need to install some form of SSL for your secure server.
Apache-SSL is one choice, but I belive you could also install mod_ssl
which will perform a similar function. 

Depending on how your network is setup you will also have to make sure
port 443 is accessible open to apache since this is the port for secure
transmissions. 

Unfortunately I cannot help you with the clustered server aspect -- I
have no such experience :]

Daryl




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Dec 28 17:14:28 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Dec 28 17:14:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Apache and SSL
In-Reply-To: <3C2C8AFD.EAC1ECE4@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228151311.03116c88@baratta.com>

At 07:08 AM 12/28/2001, you wrote:
>Dear evolt,
>We are currently running Apache on one of our web servers, and we need
>to install a security certificate on it. My question is, do I need
>Apache SSL for that? I'm currently running the plain vanilla flavor of
>the web server.

I use Apache, mod_ssl and OpenSSL. You'll need to recompile Apache to make 
them all work together.


>Also, we are planning on going to a clustered server. Will we need to
>purchase more certificates for each cluster? Or will we need only one
>since the data is shared by each node?

I don't know anything about clustered services. Can't help here, sorry.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."




From sales at iibiz.com  Fri Dec 28 20:56:59 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz)
Date: Fri Dec 28 20:56:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
Message-ID: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>

Hi All!

Haven't written for a while 'cuz I've been busy, busy.

One of my clients, who is very demanding by the way and expects immediate
turn around on updates, then proceeds to take anywhere from 30 to 60 days to
pay.  I'm done messing around with this, and want to post their changes to
the "temporary" file that I have set up for approval, and then tell them
that they won't be posted to their site until payment is made.  I know
they're gonna have a cow, but I don't think this is a very unusual
practice - is it?

What kind of payment terms do you all demand?

Sandy




From john at neoncowboy.com  Fri Dec 28 21:18:35 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Fri Dec 28 21:18:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHAEANCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

|What kind of payment terms do you all demand?
|
|Sandy

50% deposit to lift a finger (beyond the proposal stage) means I get 1/2
before I even turn on the computer.

Balance due on 'completion'. My contract defines 'completion' as the client
giving approval to the final deliverables (code, images, data, etc). My
clients are usually pretty reasonable and I can put their stuff live while I
wait for a check. If I had a client like yours, I'd respond the way you are
responding, except I'd post a watermarked screenshot to keep them from
stealing/using my work.

The more experienced I get, the less tolerance I have for lame clients. I'm
almost always working so cheap that they deserve no special favors or
anything like that, and they NEVER will get me to finance their development
projects for 1-2 months, unless I'm collecting interest.

hth,
jpc




From sales at iibiz.com  Fri Dec 28 21:26:13 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz)
Date: Fri Dec 28 21:26:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
References: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHAEANCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <00a701c19019$50f37840$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>

> The more experienced I get, the less tolerance I have for lame clients.
I'm
> almost always working so cheap that they deserve no special favors

My sentiments exactly!

Thanks for your input,

Sandy






From seyon at delime.com  Fri Dec 28 21:27:04 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Fri Dec 28 21:27:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011228232249.00a41d08@mail.delime.com>

At 12/28/2001 09:02 PM, you wrote:
>I'm done messing around with this, and want to post their changes to
>the "temporary" file that I have set up for approval, and then tell them
>that they won't be posted to their site until payment is made.  I know
>they're gonna have a cow, but I don't think this is a very unusual
>practice - is it?

If the "temporary" version is fully functional, and you can guarantee that 
nothing will fall out of place in the shift to the real live version, no, I 
think that is perfectly acceptable.

>What kind of payment terms do you all demand?

All money paid within two weeks of the bill date.
Stated at the outset. Most ordinary companies here who offer credit allow 
payment in 30 days, so far have not had any complaints about us allowing 14.

regards.
-marc



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 01:24:50 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 01:24:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>

> From: "iibiz" <sales at iibiz.com>
> 
> One of my clients, who is very demanding by the way and expects
> immediate turn around on updates, then proceeds to take anywhere from
> 30 to 60 days to pay.  I'm done messing around with this, and want to
> post their changes to the "temporary" file that I have set up for
> approval, and then tell them that they won't be posted to their site
> until payment is made.  I know they're gonna have a cow, but I don't
> think this is a very unusual practice - is it?

i think that's the kind of practice that fosters anything but a good 
relationship with the client... holding their work hostage is how it 
can be seen on their end, and it removes any trust...

try a different approach, one that can benefit you both...

how many hours a month do you spend doing work for them (on 
average)?  take that number, put together a reduced hourly rate, 
and offer them a pre-payment deal...

so, let's say you spend 40 hours a month on their site... offer them 
a deal where they buy 40 hours every month at, say, 10% off... you 
do all your work up to 40 hours, and then bill them as normal (or 
halt work until they approve it, etc.)...

this way, you get your money in advance, and they save some 
money (also makes it easier for them to budget it, and they're on a 
regular payment schedule, which makes it much easier to get 
checks out)... that discount should be based on admin time you 
would normally spend to track down your money... so if you spend 
4 hours a month on the phone normally, even selling your 40 hour 
block at 10% off, you come out ahead since you would no longer 
be wasting 4 hours a month tracking down checks and managing 
your client...

explaining it this way to your client (in nicer terms) shows them 
that you value them as a client, still want to offer same-day turn-
around on tasks, and they save a bit on your rates...  it's win-win, 
and no deal is a good deal unless both sides win...

remember, this is the web... if you insist on holding up changes for 
payment, that client will walk when someone comes along who can 
offer the immediate service they want...  i hate to say this about 
the other feedback you've gotten, but you're probably better off 
disregarding it...

> What kind of payment terms do you all demand?

30 days, which is pretty normal...

and if someone demanded i pay before they hand over my work, i'd 
hire someone else with whom i can have a more trust-based 
relationship...




From bharoche at usa.net  Sat Dec 29 01:44:23 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sat Dec 29 01:44:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Forcing IE to download a file rather than displaying it?
Message-ID: <001701c1903c$a1952c30$9865fea9@Laptop>

I need to create a web space where my client can upload Word (.doc) files
and Acrobat (.pdf) files. When the user clicks on a file link, it should
force the browser to respond with a "save file" dialog box.

Obviously, this is simple if the files are first zipped/stuffed, but reasons
not relevant here that's not an option.

The domain is virtually hosted on unix/Apache 1.3.6. I've played around with
.htaccess to over-ride the mime type for these files such as:

AddType application/octet-stream .doc

While this works for Netscape, Internet Explorer 6 PC (and I assume earlier
versions as well) insist on still opening the Word documents inside the
browser.

Is there any way, other than zipping/stuffing to over-ride this behavior and
force a "save as..." prompt?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com









____________________________
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
P.O. Box 694
Occidental, Ca  95465
Tel:  707.874.2710
Fax: 707.874.2716
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com






From gozz at gozz.com  Sat Dec 29 01:57:16 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sat Dec 29 01:57:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>
References: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>
Message-ID: <p04310100b85316bad73a@[192.168.1.101]>

>that client will walk when someone comes along who can
>offer the immediate service they want...

Hell, if a client "walks" because you're down on them for not paying, 
so be it ... warn the next victim if you can.

My contract says I own the work until final payment has been made and 
my hosting contracts states when I can take down the site due to 
non-payment ... I've acted on those clauses twice - still have one 
client and the other one paid up and is now hosted on a free service 
... fine with me.

This is something I've seen before in independent designers ... it's 
a trap to think clients are so precious that you can't stand up for 
yourself ... your clients are likely more business savvy than you so 
you have to remind yourself that a client that doesn't pay is in 
almost all cases no better than a blank slot in your client list.

Leave the working for nothing thing to musicians.

I'm now in a sucky situation where I am owed money for a project that 
was still in the "proof of concept" stage ... the only action I can 
take is telling them I'll delete the files on my hard drive and 
charge again for recreating them if they don't pay up ... and that's 
exactly what I'll do if the response to my third "I haven't received 
your check yet" email doesn't result in a situation that satisfies me.
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 02:10:43 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 02:10:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b85316bad73a@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>

> From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
>
> >that client will walk when someone comes along who can
> >offer the immediate service they want...
> 
> Hell, if a client "walks" because you're down on them for not paying,
> so be it ... warn the next victim if you can.

that wasn't my argument at all... if you have a client for web work, 
and you *cannot* or *will not* provide same day service when they 
request it, then they'll look elsewhere...

the context of the post was that this client *does* expect it, and 
creating a billing arrangement that still allows this *and* protects 
the developer (while benefitting the client) is always worth looking 
at...

i fear you got the completely wrong idea of my post (as evidenced 
by the only two lines you chose to quote)...

> My contract says I own the work until final payment has been made and
> my hosting contracts states when I can take down the site due to
> non-payment ... I've acted on those clauses twice - still have one
> client and the other one paid up and is now hosted on a free service
> ... fine with me.

that's one way to do it... i base my approach on the client... those 
who don't pay don't get their work until they pay (final product), 
those who do pay get their work ahead of payment... any one 
approach (always hand it over, or always hold it) won't handle all 
clients, and trying to fit all clients into the model won't do anyone 
any favors in the long run...

> This is something I've seen before in independent designers ... it's a
> trap to think clients are so precious that you can't stand up for
> yourself ... your clients are likely more business savvy than you so
> you have to remind yourself that a client that doesn't pay is in
> almost all cases no better than a blank slot in your client list.
> 
> Leave the working for nothing thing to musicians.

um, is this a response to my post?  i'm not an independent, i run a 
firm... and my post suggested exactly the opposite of this... offer 
the client a deal on pre-payment -- saves them money, cuts out 
hassle of chasing down payment for you... my other post goes into 
more detail based on the situation cited... again, i think you've 
completely misinterpreted my post...  nowhere do i suggest buying 
the client or taking it in the can...

> I'm now in a sucky situation where I am owed money for a project that
> was still in the "proof of concept" stage ... the only action I can
> take is telling them I'll delete the files on my hard drive and charge
> again for recreating them if they don't pay up ... and that's exactly
> what I'll do if the response to my third "I haven't received your
> check yet" email doesn't result in a situation that satisfies me. -- 

deleting the files doesn't help you at all...  this is a case where 
prepayment is clearly a must... without knowing the situation, 
however, i wouldn't purport to know the right way to fix it...




From persist1 at io.com  Sat Dec 29 02:31:19 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sat Dec 29 02:31:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Forcing IE to download a file rather than displaying
 it?
In-Reply-To: <001701c1903c$a1952c30$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112290223150.20262-100000@hagbard.io.com>

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Haroche wrote:

> I need to create a web space where my client can upload Word (.doc) files
> and Acrobat (.pdf) files. When the user clicks on a file link, it should
> force the browser to respond with a "save file" dialog box.

The easiest way out is to provide instructions to select ("Save Target
As...") from the context menu.

Otherwise, if Word or Word Reader (et. al.) is installed, IE/Win will see
that filename extension, go "oh!  I can display that file inline!" and proceed
to do it.

There are hacks to get around this, but if there're any that aren't more
trouble than they're worth I dunno what they are.

P.S.  This (mis)feature is one of the bigger security holes in Windows.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From zloui at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 02:32:28 2001
From: zloui at yahoo.com (Loui Zivkovic)
Date: Sat Dec 29 02:32:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <ACEEJBLCIHAIFHJNICKJOEGMCOAA.zloui@yahoo.com>

Hi Amy,

Header #2 is great, do not move anything, just change colours:
On SOLUTIONS ... use same colour like title Services - ...
On geosolutions.com use grey same like on your left menu


Loui,

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody
Sent: December 28, 2001 10:24 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
Subject: site header and logo

I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.

The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)

I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
grey-green but it's not quite right.

any ideas????

some examples and screenshot

http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm


/**************************************
Amy Gilliland
GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
Web Developer/Programmer
agilliland at geosolutions.com
http://www.geosolutions.com
http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com


-- 
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_________________________________________________________
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From gozz at gozz.com  Sat Dec 29 03:12:44 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:12:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
References: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>
 <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
Message-ID: <p04310100b853221f0fbf@[192.168.1.101]>

>  > From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
>>
>>  >that client will walk when someone comes along who can
>>  >offer the immediate service they want...
>>
>>  Hell, if a client "walks" because you're down on them for not paying,
>>  so be it ... warn the next victim if you can.
>
>that wasn't my argument at all... if you have a client for web work,
>and you *cannot* or *will not* provide same day service when they
>request it, then they'll look elsewhere...
>
>the context of the post was that this client *does* expect it, and
>creating a billing arrangement that still allows this *and* protects
>the developer (while benefitting the client) is always worth looking
>at...

I thought about writing "in the context of this post" but didn't ... 
agreed, giving a discounted rate can build client rapport - BUT if 
anything, a more appropriate response to a client needing immediate 
updates would be a surcharge, not a discounted rate ... the more so 
if the client is slow in paying. I mark my development updates 
payable upon receipt and won't send a reminder for one month ... but 
it seems that this is an ongoing problem for Sandy - it doesn't seem 
that the client values her/his work - taking down the site would be a 
poignant motivation for the client to give some needed respect.

I guess my main point is that largely, people treat you as you you 
expect them to. And not taking decisive action in response to non 
payment sends the signal that it's ok to be lax in cutting the check.

>that's one way to do it... i base my approach on the client... those
>who don't pay don't get their work until they pay (final product),
>those who do pay get their work ahead of payment... any one
>approach (always hand it over, or always hold it) won't handle all
>clients, and trying to fit all clients into the model won't do anyone
>any favors in the long run...

Well, it seems like we're on the same page ... clients are different 
... the client Sandy speaks of is troublesome ... I was just 
encouraging her (him?) (are you a her or him?) (does it matter?) (am 
I being to sensitive to feminists who object to the use of "him" when 
referring to someone of an indeterminate sex?) (should I just use 
"they" instead as is suggested by some influential linguists?) ... to 
take down the site if the non payment was unbearable. The goal of the 
post is to find suggestions for ways to get paid ... and accepting 
partial payment is really selling yourself short ... the ability to 
take down the site is some powerful ammo that should be used when 
appropriate. And if this issue is important enough to post here, I 
say do it.

>  > This is something I've seen before in independent designers ... it's a
>>  trap to think clients are so precious that you can't stand up for
>>  yourself ... your clients are likely more business savvy than you so
>>  you have to remind yourself that a client that doesn't pay is in
>>  almost all cases no better than a blank slot in your client list.
>>
>>  Leave the working for nothing thing to musicians.
>
>um, is this a response to my post?  i'm not an independent, i run a
>firm... and my post suggested exactly the opposite of this... offer
>the client a deal on pre-payment -- saves them money, cuts out
>hassle of chasing down payment for you...

No, wasn't a response to your post, but the thread ... great if you 
offer a discount on prepayment, but myself, as an independent, the 
flow isn't great enough to make having less money this month better 
than more money next month. I think I remember that Sandy is 
independent or a hus/wife team.

>  > I'm now in a sucky situation where I am owed money for a project that
>>  was still in the "proof of concept" stage ... the only action I can
>>  take is telling them I'll delete the files on my hard drive and charge
>>  again for recreating them if they don't pay up ... and that's exactly
>>  what I'll do if the response to my third "I haven't received your
>>  check yet" email doesn't result in a situation that satisfies me. --
>
>deleting the files doesn't help you at all...  this is a case where
>prepayment is clearly a must... without knowing the situation,
>however, i wouldn't purport to know the right way to fix it...

Right ... no good way to fix it, thanks for the sympathy - the guy's 
excuse is that he has to put it on his investor's credit card and I 
don't take credit cards ... his first payment was in cash ... I don't 
buy the "investors credit card" thing - sent him an email earlier 
today suggesting he buy a money order with the card. If I delete the 
files what will I be out?

<tip type="[OT] Wild Wines">
I like unusual tasting wines. The two that have stood out in recent 
months are J. Lohr Merlot which tastes like goat cheese and Chateaux 
Trocard Boedeaux Superior which tastes like very very old library 
books ... or maybe clothing in a foot locker that hasn't been opened 
since 1930. Also, Louis Roederer champagne tastes like Tylenol. 
Mmmmmm good.
</tip>
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From gozz at gozz.com  Sat Dec 29 03:20:31 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:20:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <ACEEJBLCIHAIFHJNICKJOEGMCOAA.zloui@yahoo.com>
References: <ACEEJBLCIHAIFHJNICKJOEGMCOAA.zloui@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04310101b8532dd5d002@[192.168.1.101]>

try background #999999, geosolutions.com #ffffff, other elements 
adjust as necessary.
-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From john at neoncowboy.com  Sat Dec 29 03:25:16 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:25:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
Message-ID: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHEEAPCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

|that wasn't my argument at all... if you have a client for web work,
|and you *cannot* or *will not* provide same day service when they
|request it, then they'll look elsewhere...

Then let 'em!

...and while they're looking elsewhere, I hope the people who know exactly
how it ought to look (they just don't know the software to create it, you
know) will look elsewhere too...and the ones who want me to teach them HTML
so they can make their own changes...and the ones who want to tell me how
long it should take to re-configure Phorm to work on another domain and
change all of the includes so they'll work on the new domain too..and the
ones who know some guy's sister who does web design for $20/hour, so I
should too. They can all go look elsewhere.

Y'know why? Because all those clients do for me is waste time that I could
otherwise spend developing trusting relationships with clients who are
capable of comprehending such a thing.


|the context of the post was that this client *does* expect it, and
|creating a billing arrangement that still allows this *and* protects
|the developer (while benefitting the client) is always worth looking
|at...

It was a pretty good suggestion, but I don't think her client is going to go
for it.

Have you ever been jerked around by a client Aardvark? It's a hard row to
hoe when your out lots of hours, there's no pay in sight and mad people are
suggesting that *you* are the one who is being an asshole.

She identified the client as being a) demanding and b) reluctant to pay. If
you can get that client to pay upfront, you're in the wrong business!

|that's one way to do it... i base my approach on the client... those
|who don't pay don't get their work until they pay (final product),

so if they don't pay, how do they get their work when they pay?

I shudder to think about the attitude some of my tougher, cheaper,
non-trusting, paranoid clients would take toward everything if they were out
a few thousand dollars with nothing to show for it. I can hear them freaking
out about how much more work I owe them, 'I didnt know it was going to take
this long to blah-blah-blah! You were going to blah - blah! I thought surely
for $1000 that you'd have my blah - blah doing blah - blah by now!'

I'm glad you have found a solution for this, but it doesn't sound like a
viable solution to me at all.

Of course, I don't have a grasp on solving all client problems. In fact,
this is a self confessed weak spot in my business. I try to be real up front
about everything and make suggestions that will save my clients money. I
work both by the hour and according to estimates. When I estimate costs, I
stick to my estimates, even at the expense of making $5/hour.

|i hate to say this about
|the other feedback you've gotten,

somehow i doubt that

 but you're probably better off
|disregarding it...


Oh please...your arrogance makes me want to puke sometimes.

whatever.

Sandi, you're lucky to have Aardvark looking after you. God knows what would
happen if you listened to the opinions of several *working professionals* in
this community and then came to a point of decision about how to handle your
situation.

Sorry for the negative tone everyone, but to have one member telling other
members they'd be 'better off' disregarding input from the community kind of
bothers me.

:)
jpc




From mestiphal at creativescream.net  Sat Dec 29 03:32:09 2001
From: mestiphal at creativescream.net (Rob Redford)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:32:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
In-Reply-To: <002601c18f22$64a2dea0$9865fea9@Laptop>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228003953.01b217e0@203.197.12.4>
 <002601c18f22$64a2dea0$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID: <71166226320.20011229023603@creativescream.net>

Bob:

Thursday, December 27, 2001, 3:04:01 PM, you wrote:

Bob> I had a similar problem with Cold Fusion hogging all my resources but that
Bob> was related to the ntconsole.exe as the problem.

I have had this problem on and off with CF 5.0 Pro as well.  How is it fixed (or
is  it)?

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Best regards,
Rob Redford :: mestiphal at creativescream.net
Saturday, December 29, 2001 || 2:31 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:: dream || imagine || create :: http://creativestream.net/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From bharoche at usa.net  Sat Dec 29 03:38:35 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:38:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011228003953.01b217e0@203.197.12.4> <002601c18f22$64a2dea0$9865fea9@Laptop> <71166226320.20011229023603@creativescream.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c1904c$94ded3f0$9865fea9@Laptop>

> Bob> I had a similar problem with Cold Fusion hogging all my resources but
that
> Bob> was related to the ntconsole.exe as the problem.
>
> I have had this problem on and off with CF 5.0 Pro as well.  How is it
fixed (or
> is  it)?

Hi Rob,

Try this:
http://www.allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=21807&Method=Full

That didn't permanently fix it for me though. I finally had to rename
ntconsole.exe, which did fix the problem.

HTH,

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Sat Dec 29 03:48:42 2001
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:48:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
References: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <009f01c1904d$bc8a5b30$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi,
You obviously haven't done any work for government agencies yet, or you'd be
very happy with a 30-60 day turnaround.
I wouldn't regard that as unreasonable. (if they stick to that schedule)
If I get paid within about 6 weeks after the day of acceptance of invoice,
I'm very happy.
Sometimes (like recently) I get the choice, I can do the work now, but
payment is only in the budget for 2002, so wait for payment 'till January,
(or six weeks after January) - or do the work in 2002, running the risk that
the project gets cancelled....

In your case, I'd simply talk to the customer. Ask whether they prefer you
to bill them weekly, to keep the amounts small etc. Ask if they have any
reason not to pay you, or if the work isn't up to scratch.
There's often a mutual agreement not more than a phone-call away, and if
there isn't, you know you've lost the client anyway, or they're not worth
having, and can start more aggressive action.

Cheers,
Richard.

----- Original Message -----
From: "iibiz" <sales at iibiz.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 4:02 AM
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........


> Hi All!
>
> Haven't written for a while 'cuz I've been busy, busy.
>
> One of my clients, who is very demanding by the way and expects immediate
> turn around on updates, then proceeds to take anywhere from 30 to 60 days
to
> pay.  I'm done messing around with this, and want to post their changes to
> the "temporary" file that I have set up for approval, and then tell them
> that they won't be posted to their site until payment is made.  I know
> they're gonna have a cow, but I don't think this is a very unusual
> practice - is it?
>
> What kind of payment terms do you all demand?
>
> Sandy





From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 03:52:54 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 03:52:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b853221f0fbf@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C2D4BBE.15995.BF719FD4@localhost>

> From: Erik Mattheis <gozz at gozz.com>
> 
> I thought about writing "in the context of this post" but didn't ...
> agreed, giving a discounted rate can build client rapport - BUT if
> anything, a more appropriate response to a client needing immediate
> updates would be a surcharge, not a discounted rate ... the more so if
> the client is slow in paying. I mark my development updates payable

agreed, depending on the client... generally, we have a process in 
place for those anyway, if they need them in less than 24 hours, it 
gets jacked up, but that can be part of the deal anyway...

> upon receipt and won't send a reminder for one month ... but it seems
> that this is an ongoing problem for Sandy - it doesn't seem that the
> client values her/his work - taking down the site would be a poignant
> motivation for the client to give some needed respect.

if the client is truly a non-payer, yes, but i got the gist that the 
client just pays on 30-60 day terms... that's not a non-payer if 
that's the case, just a slow payer...

a non-payer requires a different approach...

> I guess my main point is that largely, people treat you as you you
> expect them to. And not taking decisive action in response to non
> payment sends the signal that it's ok to be lax in cutting the check.

again, not disagreeing on non-payers... i was only talking about 
those on 30-60 day terms...

> Well, it seems like we're on the same page ... clients are different
> ... the client Sandy speaks of is troublesome ... I was just
> encouraging her (him?) (are you a her or him?) (does it matter?) (am I
> being to sensitive to feminists who object to the use of "him" when
> referring to someone of an indeterminate sex?) (should I just use
> "they" instead as is suggested by some influential linguists?) ... to

"it"  ...?

> take down the site if the non payment was unbearable. The goal of the
> post is to find suggestions for ways to get paid ... and accepting
> partial payment is really selling yourself short ... the ability to
> take down the site is some powerful ammo that should be used when
> appropriate. And if this issue is important enough to post here, I say
> do it.

yeah, for non-payers, it's integral...  but i'm still trying to look at 
this as nothing more than a client has 30-60 day terms and she 
wanted the money now... if that *all* it is, pre-payment is worth a 
look...

all this talk about holding *every* change hostage is unsettling 
given my scenario... given total non-payment as a scenario, it's a 
no-brainer...

> No, wasn't a response to your post, but the thread ... great if you
> offer a discount on prepayment, but myself, as an independent, the
> flow isn't great enough to make having less money this month better
> than more money next month. I think I remember that Sandy is
> independent or a hus/wife team.

pre-payment can have benefits...  if the client gets into the habit of 
paying every month, it sits in your account collecting interest 30-60 
days sooner... they get used to paying, they get used to having 
you on call as a resource, conversations about billing can become 
less frequent, administrative time can be reduced...

but you need the right client and right billing arrangement...

[...]
> buy the "investors credit card" thing - sent him an email earlier
> today suggesting he buy a money order with the card. If I delete the
> files what will I be out?

the files...

i dunno, i have a thing against deleting anything... for instance, 
charge again for the time to build them, but just use the same files, 
thereby allowing you to use the time to do real work...

or put them in "archive" and pull them for a fee...




From gozz at gozz.com  Sat Dec 29 04:21:35 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sat Dec 29 04:21:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D4BBE.15995.BF719FD4@localhost>
References: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
 <3C2D4BBE.15995.BF719FD4@localhost>
Message-ID: <p04310100b85338047b32@[192.168.1.101]>

>again, not disagreeing on non-payers... i was only talking about
>those on 30-60 day terms...

Right ... seems the best solution is hindsight - to get things about 
payment in writing first .. I almost always make new clients sign a 
contract first ... the only exception being one recent one that 
contacted me exactly the same time I realized I'd been doing nothing 
but reading about 9/11 for a month and a half ... was to eager to 
please (still catching up! anyone need a Flash movie conected to a 
database?).


>Yeah, for non-payers, it's integral...  but i'm still trying to look at
>this as nothing more than a client has 30-60 day terms and she
>wanted the money now... if that *all* it is, pre-payment is worth a
>look...
>
>all this talk about holding *every* change hostage is unsettling
>given my scenario... given total non-payment as a scenario, it's a
>no-brainer...

Again, seems getting things in writing beforehand is the best 
solution ... but if that's not there and you can take down the site - 
I'd think that's the thing to do - and actually something that would 
be better to try before enforcing a contract by legal action.

>i dunno, i have a thing against deleting anything... for instance,
>charge again for the time to build them, but just use the same files,
>thereby allowing you to use the time to do real work...
>
>or put them in "archive" and pull them for a fee...

Right on ... this is just a $450 bill - most of the time I spent was 
unbilled, learning to use a new technology ... my "gentle" third 
reminder was to attach to an email saying I still haven't received 
payment an estimate which noted a "50% of development fees payable 
before commencement of project".

I trust clients until I have a reason not to. And think I'll 
eventually get paid for this thing ... disturbed me that his current 
site redirects to the current host's homepage.

-- 

__________________________________________
- Erik Mattheis

(612) 377 2272
http://goZz.com/

__________________________________________



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 04:33:32 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 04:33:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHEEAPCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
References: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C2D5548.14606.BF96E386@localhost>

> From: "John Corry" <john at neoncowboy.com>
>
> |that wasn't my argument at all... if you have a client for web work,
> |and you *cannot* or *will not* provide same day service when they
> |request it, then they'll look elsewhere...
> 
> Then let 'em!

so be it... part of business is knowing who you want as a client, 
and who you don't... personally, same day service is not an 
unreasonable expectation, so i'll provide it whenever i can...

> ...and while they're looking elsewhere, I hope the people who know
> exactly how it ought to look (they just don't know the software to
> create it, you know) will look elsewhere too...and the ones who want
> me to teach them HTML so they can make their own changes...and the
> ones who want to tell me how long it should take to re-configure Phorm
> to work on another domain and change all of the includes so they'll
> work on the new domain too..and the ones who know some guy's sister
> who does web design for $20/hour, so I should too. They can all go
> look elsewhere.

so, you're willing to throw all that away?  i'll throw most of it away... 
but some of those can be turned into real work depending on the 
client... but that's a whole different discussion...

i also send the "my nephew does web work for $20" people to their 
nephew... maybe that guy's sister and this guy's nephew can get 
together...

> Y'know why? Because all those clients do for me is waste time that I
> could otherwise spend developing trusting relationships with clients
> who are capable of comprehending such a thing.

good for you (i sound so patronizing, don't i?)... it's important to 
know what clients are good, and what clients are bad... clearly you 
know what works for you...  thankfully i have people i can task to 
all the problems you cite above, meaning i can still have some of 
them as clients despite the management issues... does this mean 
we keep them all?  of course not...

> |the context of the post was that this client *does* expect it, and
> |creating a billing arrangement that still allows this *and* protects
> |the developer (while benefitting the client) is always worth looking
> |at...
> 
> It was a pretty good suggestion, but I don't think her client is going
> to go for it.

perhaps not... but proposing it and seeing the response might tell 
her more about the client to let her know how to proceed next... it 
doesn't hurt to propose it, and it certainly *can* help to propose it... 
if the only problem is that they take 30-60 days to pay, then she's 
got it easy...

> Have you ever been jerked around by a client Aardvark? It's a hard row
> to hoe when your out lots of hours, there's no pay in sight and mad
> people are suggesting that *you* are the one who is being an asshole.

hell, yeah... no matter how hard you try, there will always be 
clients who get in under the radar and screw you... just got through 
with one where we had to hold their site hostage for 3 months... 
and they'll never be a client again... others who are impossible to 
manage, but you account for it when quoting jobs, so you have 
room to play... knowing when to walk away is important...

> She identified the client as being a) demanding and b) reluctant to
> pay. If you can get that client to pay upfront, you're in the wrong
> business!

well, the client is demanding insofar as they expect a web site can 
be updated daily (which isn't odd given the nature of the web), and 
reluctant to pay insofar as they pay on 30-60 day terms (which isn't 
that far out of the norm)...

i've had that client many many times... and i've proposed the 
upfront payments many many times, and most take it, and they all 
love it... and i do, too...

if they *don't* want to do it, you need to decide why that's the case 
when they would save money on the deal (perhaps they're living too 
close to the edge?  perhaps they plan to screw you?)... that's when 
you reconsider the situation...

again, this is all based on the presumption that the client cited in 
the original post doesn't pay for 30-60 days... i don't see that alone 
as a problem... or as a non-payer... she never said the client is a 
non-payer...

> |that's one way to do it... i base my approach on the client... those
> |who don't pay don't get their work until they pay (final product),
> 
> so if they don't pay, how do they get their work when they pay?

huh?  if they pay, they get their work per the agreement (CD, 
uploads, installs, whatever)... if they don't pay, we don't hand it 
over... our projects usually span billing cycles, so we know pretty 
well whether they'll pay or not... for the smaller projects, we're a bit 
more cautious, but we work it out with the client...

> I shudder to think about the attitude some of my tougher, cheaper,
> non-trusting, paranoid clients would take toward everything if they
> were out a few thousand dollars with nothing to show for it. I can
> hear them freaking out about how much more work I owe them, 'I didnt
> know it was going to take this long to blah-blah-blah! You were going
> to blah - blah! I thought surely for $1000 that you'd have my blah -
> blah doing blah - blah by now!'

you don't have a scope document with client sign-off?  project 
plan?  even a cost estimate?  if not, then yeah, what do you expect 
them to say when you go over budget?

if your client can say that they didn't know it would cost this much, 
two things are possible:
- you've mis-managed the client...
- the client is lying, as evidenced by a signed agreement...

> I'm glad you have found a solution for this, but it doesn't sound like
> a viable solution to me at all.

it's a standard quoting and sign-off solution... it's general business 
practice... if you're still talking about the client not knowing how 
much it would cost, that is (your paragraph above)... either the 
client is lying (and you defeat them with the signed agrement) or 
the client never knew the cost (and you've mis-managed them)...

correct me if i've got the wrong idea on what you mean...

> Of course, I don't have a grasp on solving all client problems. In
> fact, this is a self confessed weak spot in my business. I try to be
> real up front about everything and make suggestions that will save my
> clients money. I work both by the hour and according to estimates.
> When I estimate costs, I stick to my estimates, even at the expense of
> making $5/hour.

ok, then why would your client be surprised at a cost?

i think we're well beyond the theme of the original post, that we're 
more into just a costing discussion now...

> |i hate to say this about
> |the other feedback you've gotten,
> 
> somehow i doubt that

no, i generally don't like to say my advice is better, and while i 
don't think it is necessarily, i do think it's a better first step... talk 
to the client, try to work it out... if that doesn't work, then hold their 
stuff hostage... this adversarial thing with clients doesn't help 
anyone...

> |but you're probably better off
> |disregarding it...
> 
> Oh please...your arrogance makes me want to puke sometimes.

well, that's one option... personally, i use my finger if i want to 
chunder...

> whatever.

well, you don't have to use *my* finger...

> Sandi, you're lucky to have Aardvark looking after you. God knows what
> would happen if you listened to the opinions of several *working
> professionals* in this community and then came to a point of decision
> about how to handle your situation.

unfortunately, none of us truly knows the situation... for sandy to 
take any of our advice at face value would be dim... but if you think 
holding work hostage as the *first* step is the way to go in this 
case, then so be it... i think it's short-sighted and antithetical to the 
overall client relationship...

what's so hard about proposing an idea to a client?  if the client 
balks, take harsher measures, but why start with the slap?

btw, what does the "working professionals" statement mean?  i 
have this sneaking suspicion you have no idea what i do for a 
living... chicken plucking doesn't pay too well, after all...

and who came to a "point of decision?"

> Sorry for the negative tone everyone, but to have one member telling
> other members they'd be 'better off' disregarding input from the
> community kind of bothers me.

wow, one time in years i suggest that, and someone calls me on 
it...  i really need to get thank you notes (i have no idea what that 
means)...

anyway, yeah, i stand by my statement... the other two 
suggestions about holding the work hostage, are, as stated above, 
a poor way to start off, IMNSHO...

what's funny is that i'm the one who's the dick, but i'm suggesting a 
nicer way to work with the client...

where have i gone wrong?




From sales at iibiz.com  Sat Dec 29 07:46:03 2001
From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz)
Date: Sat Dec 29 07:46:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
References: <3C2D33D0.29374.BF142567@localhost> <3C2D5548.14606.BF96E386@localhost>
Message-ID: <011b01c1906f$e98d3680$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>

"I trust clients until I have a reason not to" - and Aardvark mentioned
trust in his first email too.

And this client has already shown me they can't be trusted, even thought
there is a contract.

And I've been on this list long enough to value Aardvark's opinion.

Unfortunately, the site in question is a small business and a rather small
site whose changes aren't consistent enough for them to agree with
"prepayment" terms.

By the way - I am an independent "she".

I guess I'm at the point that I'm willing to let this client "walk" if they
don't agree.  I'm sick of jumping at the snap of their fingers - often
interupting work I'm doing for other, higher paying/fast paying clients,
only to waste time over the next couple of months trying to get my money!

I just was trying to get a feel for what you other designers are doing as
far as payment, so I could confidently say "this isn't unusual practice in
web design" or not.

Thanks for ALL your input.........and get some sleep!

Sandy






From frederic.roland at roland-dev.com  Sat Dec 29 08:41:42 2001
From: frederic.roland at roland-dev.com (Frédéric ROLAND)
Date: Sat Dec 29 08:41:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <001901c18f1a$bdbebc00$6601a8c0@mcleodusa.net>
Message-ID: <JMEELLMLOPCGPHOALCKOIEBPDBAA.frederic.roland@roland-dev.com>

I had no problem using MSIE 5.5, I can remember that they have both french
and english
pages. Maybe content negotiation as gone mad. I don't know.

Regards,
Fr?d?ric Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chad Savage
Sent: jeudi 27 d?cembre 2001 22:09
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership



----- Original Message -----
From: "Fr?d?ric ROLAND" <frederic.roland at roland-dev.com>
>
> I think that www.gandi.net recognize the customer as owner of the name.
>
> Fr?d?ric Roland

...just as long as you speak French?

========================================================================

"Due to a configuration error of your software, our server was not able to
give you the document in your language.
To be able to use content negotiation, please correctly configure your
browser by specifying your language.

With Netscape, you need to go to the following menus : Edit, Preferences,
Navigator, Languages.
With Internet Explorer, please go to : Tools (ou Extras), Internet Options,
Languages.

By specifying the language in which you want to see the web pages, our
server will be able to give you the English or French version (according to
your choices) of documents.

For more details on this standard : http://www.debian.org/intro/cn.en "

========================================================================

...or am I missing something?

Chad



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From jg3_savage at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 08:41:46 2001
From: jg3_savage at yahoo.com (Chad Savage :: zTc)
Date: Sat Dec 29 08:41:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
In-Reply-To: <B85148BD.657D%gsd@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011228101431.00a52a80@pop3.norton.antivirus>

At 09:53 PM 12/27/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Domain Registrars / Name Ownership
>To: The List <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>
>i just loaded it and it came up in english. but then i have english
>specified as my default language.
>
>looks like the language selection script is choking on your browser. try
>following the instructions to get it to work or use a different browser?
>strange tho, that that would happen...
>
>george


That's the first thing I did, actually (before I posted regarding it) -- using IE6, with a variety of English-types specified...

::: Chad Savage, aka zTc
::: Jackson Gray 3
:::  <http://www.jacksongray3.com>


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From iweb at 371.net  Sat Dec 29 11:20:46 2001
From: iweb at 371.net (iweb at 371.net)
Date: Sat Dec 29 11:20:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] FW:thelist -- confirmation of subscription -- request 427047
Message-ID: <6401229.1009646412876.NetDao.naisamail@app2>

----- Original Message -----
From: thelist-request at lists.evolt.org
To: iweb at 371.net
Sent: 2001-12-30  01:16
Subject: thelist -- confirmation of subscription -- request 427047

thelist -- confirmation of subscription -- request 427047

We have received a request from 63.237.54.250 for subscription of your
email address, <iweb at 371.net>, to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing
list.  To confirm the request, please send a message to
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org, and either:

- maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is
ok),

- or include the following line - and only the following line - in the
message body: 

confirm 427047

(Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
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If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard
this message.  Send questions to thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org.


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371???? http://www.371.net



From john at neoncowboy.com  Sat Dec 29 12:30:02 2001
From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Sat Dec 29 12:30:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D5548.14606.BF96E386@localhost>
Message-ID: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHIEBCCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>

|you don't have a scope document with client sign-off?  project
|plan?  even a cost estimate?  if not, then yeah, what do you expect
|them to say when you go over budget?

Yes.

But it doesn't matter. The ones who want to b e difficult about this will be
difficult. The cheap ones will be cheap. I can wave their signoff in their
face and 'prove' to them that I'm 'right', but what good does that do toward
creating a trusting, happy client/services provider relationship?


|ok, then why would your client be surprised at a cost?
|
|i think we're well beyond the theme of the original post, that we're
|more into just a costing discussion now...

agreed.

I'd love it if you'd write an article on IA, managing project scope and
keeping everything rolling along on schedule and on budget. I am under the
impression that you are particularly skilled at this facet of the business
and would love to see how you do it. I also suspect that your process would
be compatible with my personality type...but that's subjective.


|well, you don't have to use *my* finger...

lol.

|btw, what does the "working professionals" statement mean?  i
|have this sneaking suspicion you have no idea what i do for a
|living... chicken plucking doesn't pay too well, after all...

It means that everyone here works in this field. Everyone who responded to
her post has experience in this arena.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you manage a high volume web development
firm.

|
|where have i gone wrong?

Nah. You're alright. Of course, you *are* a dick, but that's nothing to
worry about.

I do hope you'll consider an article outlining AS's development process from
needs determination to project scope decisions to budgeting/bidding.

Many of us here have been thrust into these positions with only common sense
as our guide. I didn't go to business school and don't even have a halfway
decent set of people skills, client management is a weak spot in my
business. After being a independent consultant for 3 years I'm starting to
learn (slowly) how not to get burned.

I think I got mad at your cavalier way of just matter of factly dismissing
the thoughts of me and Erik, thoughts that are the product of *real world
struggles* with these very issues. I bought the right to give Sandi that
advice with agony man, paid for it with blood, sweat and tears...and you
come along and just say, 'Oooh, don't do that! That guy really needs to work
on his scope/bid/client management skills'. Guess that's more of a personal
development issue than a web development issue.

Anyway, sorry for the vibe.

jpc




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 12:58:08 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 12:58:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <BCECKGJCNKGJBEKGOEMHIEBCCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
References: <3C2D5548.14606.BF96E386@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C2DCB8F.13035.C164E634@localhost>

> From: "John Corry" <john at neoncowboy.com>
[...] 
> But it doesn't matter. The ones who want to b e difficult about this
> will be difficult. The cheap ones will be cheap. I can wave their
> signoff in their face and 'prove' to them that I'm 'right', but what
> good does that do toward creating a trusting, happy client/services
> provider relationship?

no, you're right... and as you said before, you give the client the 
benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it... and i do 
that, too... and as a result, some will get in under the radar and 
we'll take it in the can... it's just important to cut those losses as 
soon as you can, minimizing the impact, and trying to make it 
amicable if possible...

bad clients get their own reputation, too...

[...]
> I'd love it if you'd write an article on IA, managing project scope
> and keeping everything rolling along on schedule and on budget. I am
> under the impression that you are particularly skilled at this facet
> of the business and would love to see how you do it. I also suspect
> that your process would be compatible with my personality type...but
> that's subjective.

actually, i'm not remarkable... after starting my company, we put a 
CEO in place who had 20+ years of experience in the consulting 
world and as a CIO... his business experience has rubbed off on 
me enough that i'm not a complete idiot...

that and whatever i'd write would be slightly different the next 
month... we're always re-adjusting, always re-assessing...

but i'd be happy to put some thought into, see if i can come up with 
anything useful...

[...]
> |btw, what does the "working professionals" statement mean?  i
> |have this sneaking suspicion you have no idea what i do for a
> |living... chicken plucking doesn't pay too well, after all...
> 
> It means that everyone here works in this field. Everyone who
> responded to her post has experience in this arena.

gotcha...

> I have a sneaking suspicion that you manage a high volume web
> development firm.

close... i'm one of a few, so my weakness get filled in by the 
strengths of others...

> Nah. You're alright. Of course, you *are* a dick, but that's nothing
> to worry about.

well, we're agreed on that, then...

> I do hope you'll consider an article outlining AS's development
> process from needs determination to project scope decisions to
> budgeting/bidding.

i will...

> Many of us here have been thrust into these positions with only common
> sense as our guide. I didn't go to business school and don't even have
> a halfway decent set of people skills, client management is a weak
> spot in my business. After being a independent consultant for 3 years
> I'm starting to learn (slowly) how not to get burned.

i look back on my freelance days and am horrified at how i let 
myself get jerked around... i used to be terrible at this...

> I think I got mad at your cavalier way of just matter of factly
> dismissing the thoughts of me and Erik, thoughts that are the product
> of *real world struggles* with these very issues. I bought the right
> to give Sandi that advice with agony man, paid for it with blood,
> sweat and tears...and you come along and just say, 'Oooh, don't do
> that! That guy really needs to work on his scope/bid/client management
> skills'. Guess that's more of a personal development issue than a web
> development issue.

no, i see your point, and i'm sorry i came off that way... i was just 
trying to push the need to work with the client before becoming 
adversarial -- based solely on my interpretation of the facts as 
presented...  that and i see a lot of client bashing, and i get a little 
touchy on that subject...

> Anyway, sorry for the vibe.

it's all good...




From kristenannfrey at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 14:45:10 2001
From: kristenannfrey at yahoo.com (Kristy Frey)
Date: Sat Dec 29 14:45:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2DCB8F.13035.C164E634@localhost>
Message-ID: <20011229204517.83488.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>

> i look back on my freelance days and am horrified at how i let 
> myself get jerked around... i used to be terrible at this...

and anyone that has done any freelance work in Buffalo knows what it's like to work with companies
that expect big results for small money.  

kristy

P.S. Sandy - I would be interested in hearing how you end up resolving this.

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From persist1 at io.com  Sat Dec 29 14:56:28 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sat Dec 29 14:56:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <3C2D290B.25965.BEEA13C7@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112290157170.20262-100000@hagbard.io.com>

I started this 12 hours ago when the thread started, suspended it to
finish other replies, and forgot to send it.

Most of the stuff I mention has already been covered by Rudy and John, but
there's a bit of humor at the end that you'll likely appreciate.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, aardvark wrote:

> i think that's the kind of practice that fosters anything but a good
> relationship with the client... holding their work hostage is how it
> can be seen on their end, and it removes any trust...

I have to join my own voice to this opinion.

> remember, this is the web... if you insist on holding up changes for
> payment, that client will walk when someone comes along who can
> offer the immediate service they want...  i hate to say this about
> the other feedback you've gotten, but you're probably better off
> disregarding it...

Even if you disagree, the man DOES have a point (Rudy, not the client).

It won't help with this client, but in general:

1.  Get EVERYTHING in writing or via e-mail.  Approvals, change orders,
    disputes, notifications of all kinds.  In some places - like Oregon,
    where I live - you're dead to justice if you don't.
2.  Spell out the payment and invoice terms before you start planning
    or bulding ANYTHING.  If the client has an EARNED (not anecdotal)
    reputation for keeping their promises, it might be practical to loosen
    your payment terms if you can afford it... but anymore I only do it if
    those factors are both affirmative.  No excuses, because the only
    thing worse than not having gigs is having a plate full of gigs that
    you're not getting paid for.  (More on this below.)
3.  Define deliverables and the timelines associated with them, so
    that their reasonable nature (or lack thereof) is spelt out and on
    the table for all to see.  Even if the job is being done pro bono
    or on some sort of payment plan.  If they want to demand immediate
    turnaround, they should have the fortitude to put those demands in
    writing (and I know of at least one person on this list who will
    agree with this assertion, word for word, based on earlier
    correspondence).
4.  If the client falls behind, don't hold anything hostage.  At the
    same time, there's no reason why you should feel yourself constrained
    from refusing service until the account is paid in full.  ("You
    haven't paid me in three months - until you do, I'm not working on
    the site.")

For the really difficult clients, you can give them the following
explanation for your hard-line approach:

"I'll tell you what:  if you can convince my landlord, grocer, utility
providers, ISP, bank, estate agent, doctor, druggist, bartender, etc. etc.
to serve me for free because I'm such a nice guy, I'll gladly return the
favor."

Yes, the work might go to someone else.

You might be so broke, that you can't afford to turn the work down.

But none of that changes the fact that we are professionals who should
carry ourselves in a professional manner, and expect that our clients
will do the same - at least to the same measure.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"





From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 29 15:36:50 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Dec 29 15:36:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
In-Reply-To: <20011229204517.83488.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3C2DCB8F.13035.C164E634@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C2DF0B8.10270.C1F6110E@localhost>

> From: Kristy Frey <kristenannfrey at yahoo.com>
> 
> and anyone that has done any freelance work in Buffalo knows what it's
> like to work with companies that expect big results for small money.  

hmmm...  sounds like you sit in on my staff meetings...

> P.S. Sandy - I would be interested in hearing how you end up resolving
> this.

same here...

<tip type="beervolts">
Wanna meet some of your fellow evolters in real life?  Heard about 
the London, Toronto, and Milwakee beervolts, but couldn't get a 
flight in time to make it after work?  Well, given the holiday timing, 
feel free to create your own and post it to this article:

Festive Beervolts
http://evolt.org/article/tip/27/18958/

There's a Buffalo beervolt in the works -- right after we dig out.  
(btw, anyone who wants to see pics of the snow, mail me offlist)
</tip>




From webdev at komputerart.com  Sat Dec 29 16:11:43 2001
From: webdev at komputerart.com (Kris Hedstrom)
Date: Sat Dec 29 16:11:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Forcing IE to download a file rather than displaying it?
References: <001701c1903c$a1952c30$9865fea9@Laptop>
Message-ID: <001401c190b6$08f1da80$1fb7e40c@attbi.com>

I wrote this php function awhile back to force downloads. I don't know if
you're using php or not, but it might be helpful.

  function download($path)

           global $HTTP_USER_AGENT;
           $file=basename($path);
           $size = filesize($path);
           header("Content-Type: application/octet-stream");
           header("Content-Type: application/force-download");
           header("Content-Length: $size");
           // IE5.5 just downloads index.php if we don't do this
           if(preg_match("/MSIE 5.5/", $HTTP_USER_AGENT))

                   header("Content-Disposition: filename=$file");
           } else

                   header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=$file");
           }
           header("Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary");
           $fh = fopen($path, "r");
           fpassthru($fh);
   }

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Haroche <bharoche at usa.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 11:44 PM
Subject: [thelist] Forcing IE to download a file rather than displaying it?


> I need to create a web space where my client can upload Word (.doc) files
> and Acrobat (.pdf) files. When the user clicks on a file link, it should
> force the browser to respond with a "save file" dialog box.
>
> Obviously, this is simple if the files are first zipped/stuffed, but
reasons
> not relevant here that's not an option.
>
> The domain is virtually hosted on unix/Apache 1.3.6. I've played around
with
> .htaccess to over-ride the mime type for these files such as:
>
> AddType application/octet-stream .doc
>
> While this works for Netscape, Internet Explorer 6 PC (and I assume
earlier
> versions as well) insist on still opening the Word documents inside the
> browser.
>
> Is there any way, other than zipping/stuffing to over-ride this behavior
and
> force a "save as..." prompt?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Haroche
> O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
> http://www.OnPointSolutions.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________
> O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
> P.O. Box 694
> Occidental, Ca  95465
> Tel:  707.874.2710
> Fax: 707.874.2716
> http://www.OnPointSolutions.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From lauri_lists at tharapita.com  Sat Dec 29 17:49:52 2001
From: lauri_lists at tharapita.com (Lauri Vain)
Date: Sat Dec 29 17:49:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Templating solutions?
Message-ID: <000d01c190c3$b08df3c0$1631a8c0@hot7>

Hi there!

During the last two weeks or so, I've been bugged by a question deep inside me.
It's about various templating solutions used with dynamic web applications.

Oftentimes simply embedding the code into the HTML template does the trick.
Othertimes the
<code>include("header.inc");</code>    and
<code>include("footer.inc");</code> works its magic.

There are, however, also moments when such approaches aren't enough and
something else is required.

What does one do when the templates of most pages within one site differ in look
and feel? One possibility would be to specify a template, load it into a
variable and replace certain marked spots (a la "<!--left_navbar-->") with the
dynamically created code/text using eregi_replace() or something similar.

What are the templating solutions available? Pros and cons?

How do you solve your templating?

Yours,
Lauri
--
Tharapita Creations
[dynamic web applications]
lauri.vain at tharapita.com
Mobile: +372 53 410 610




From gnarly at gmx.co.uk  Sat Dec 29 18:25:46 2001
From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly)
Date: Sat Dec 29 18:25:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE Problem - [perhaps a bit OT]
Message-ID: <003901c190c9$3fe541e0$c432893e@woody>

Hi all,

I'm messing about on my mum's PC - using Win95. After replacing the modem
(the old one had hamsters in it) I downloaded IE5.5SP2 and installed it. And
now whenever I start up the PC I get the IE4 Welcome window pop up. Except
it looks for res://ie4tour.dll/welcome.htm then comes up with the cannot
find server error. So there is no "dont show me this again" checkbox type
thing.

I've looked about in the registry but I cant see where the hell its called.
Anybody have any ideas how I can stop this?

Cheers,

Olly

PS: A Tip will be forthcoming when my brain is a bit less cloudy - had a big
family party all day and I've yet to fully regain my sanity :-)





From marty at face2interface.com  Sat Dec 29 18:41:10 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Sat Dec 29 18:41:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Templating solutions?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c190c3$b08df3c0$1631a8c0@hot7>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011229191348.022f0ec0@216.238.4.10>

At 01:51 AM 12/30/01 +0200, Lauri Vain wrote:

>Oftentimes simply embedding the code into the HTML template does the trick.
>Othertimes the
><code>include("header.inc");</code>    and
><code>include("footer.inc");</code> works its magic.

Lauri,

I've found that a more generic solution has a template as its base with the 
common elements filled in by the program and other software entities. 
Taking an object oriented approach allows complexity to develop as needed 
w/o requiring the whole system to be rewritten. I'm developing 
http://feedthebulldog.com/ as an illustration of this using ASP & Visual Basic.

>There are, however, also moments when such approaches aren't enough and
>something else is required.

Nesting is a good technique especially when it empowers the author of the 
site rather than the developer, i.e. as the programmer of the back-end it's 
important to provide the webmaster with tools that will allow for needs 
they have which you may not be able to properly anticipate. For instance in 
my CMS/Authoring product SIMPL there is in addition to a site wide template 
a facility called 'heaps' which allows for content independance from HTML 
tagging.

For example on http://newdiets.com/ there are well over 100 recipes. Most 
of them use a recipe heap, where the tagging and symbolic content 
substitution is specied. Heap instances are used to specify the contents of 
individual pages on the site and the tagging is done according to the 
specifications of the heap at runtime. Which means that the corn bread 
recipe on http://newdiets.com/Breads_and_Such/Corn_Bread.shtml can be 
changed from italics to bold on the line between the title and ingredients 
by changing the recipe heap.

**Changing the recipe heap will make this change instantly to every such 
line on the site, at least all the ones that use the recipe heap.

hth,

Marty

Website Creation Made SIMPL(tm)
http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml
WebSafe Color Picker -- http://face2interface.com/WebSafe




From jeana at stormdrain.org  Sat Dec 29 19:42:46 2001
From: jeana at stormdrain.org (jeana)
Date: Sat Dec 29 19:42:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] Business/Payment Question........
References: <009501c19015$37fc9e60$5fa0b3c7@iibiz>
Message-ID: <00fa01c190d3$2ca38e20$0a80a8c0@localdomain>

> What kind of payment terms do you all demand?

Fyi.. good thread btw...  I'm in the process of writing a business
plan/contract outlines etc.... So I really don't have any real-life
experience to add here... but one question that has been plaguing my mind
while I've read is ... I'm wondering if the contract is simply not
Black-and-white enough?  I mean, if the client signs a contract saying...
"payment will be payed when _______ is completed, and work will be submitted
by this date _________" can the contract still be questionable (and the
client jerk you around as in Sandy's case)?

Or (no offense Sandy) is it possible that Sandy's contract was too vague...
and a lesson is learned to write contracts that outline *everything* (and
moreso maybe on a case-by-case scenerio...meaning, perhaps "trust" is built
with previous clients.. and contracts not so strict for them.. but for new
clients... perhaps that black and white solid edge a designer needs to
protect themselves).

I hope my thoughts/questions made sense.

Thanks,
Jeana








From seb at members.evolt.org  Sat Dec 29 20:16:58 2001
From: seb at members.evolt.org (Seb)
Date: Sat Dec 29 20:16:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] php date
In-Reply-To: <001e01c18e38$b3107ec0$1fb7e40c@attbi.com>
References: <LNEDKKOEGJFNPLNPAKAGAEPNCAAA.john@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230020815.00a76c18@members.evolt.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


>John Corry wants to know:
> > http://www.sugarbeachresort.net/index.php?page=rates
> >
> > This is really a question of 'logical approach' more than anything.
> >
> > At the URL above I have a table for condo rates. I'm about to build a db
> > driven site that has this information for about 10-20 properties and need
>to
> > automate part of it. I've got the actual rates coming from the db already,
> > that's a given. It's the date ranges that has me stumped because I don't
> > want to store that value, I want to generate it based on the current date.
> >
> > The 'high season' and 'low season' dates change every year. I need to
> > automate that change.
> >
> > Hm, if this it too complicated though I guess it would be fine and easy
> > enough to just put the dates in an include and use that file for all of
>the
> > sites...but, if there's some great PHP date magic one of you could
>enlighten
> > me to, that'd be GREAT!


Piece of cake.

Create a table SEASONS with the following columns:

Season_display_start (datetime)
Season_display_end (datetime)
High_season_start (datetime)
High_season_end (datetime)
Low_season_start (datetime)
Low_season_end (datetime)

Then, populate with a record for every year that you want to. The 
season_display_start and season_display_end dates specify when to start and 
stop displaying the high and low season dates for that year. (So, you could 
display the high and low season dates for 2003 from 11th April 2002 to 19th 
May 2003.)

Your logic will be:

$sql_query = "select * from SEASONS where season_display_start < " . 
$current_date . " and season_display_end > " . $current_date ;

Ta da!

Seb.


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From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sat Dec 29 23:55:02 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sat Dec 29 23:55:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 29-DEC-01
Message-ID: <200112300555.fBU5t1E7021728@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 29-DEC-01

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Code: Multiple Pages With PHP (Author: jesteruk)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/19340/index.html

This article will explain how you can split large results from a
MySQL database into smaller, more managable chunks displayed on
multiple pages. Allowing your visitors to navigate through your site
with ease.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org




From guoguo321 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 30 01:03:26 2001
From: guoguo321 at hotmail.com (=?gb2312?B?1bwg1de5+g==?=)
Date: Sun Dec 30 01:03:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F110oXM7e0C9guA8M6X0000a149@hotmail.com>

haomood
882797



_________________________________________________________________
???????? Web ?????? ?? MSN Hotmail?
http://www.hotmail.com/cn




From mali_subscribe at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 01:55:05 2001
From: mali_subscribe at yahoo.com (Mustapha Ali)
Date: Sun Dec 30 01:55:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <000d01c190c3$b08df3c0$1631a8c0@hot7>
Message-ID: <000901c19107$19f43d40$0100a8c0@intelligence>

Hello,

This is my first major project and I would like to get feedback from you
guys.........i know there are some bugs like improper displaying of the
CSS in Netscape (could I get help with that????).......but so far
everything works well with IE......thanks a lot.

 


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From webguru at vsnl.net  Sun Dec 30 01:58:37 2001
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Sun Dec 30 01:58:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
In-Reply-To: <20011229074711.8608051F47@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011230132004.01cf7dc0@203.197.12.4>

At 01:17 PM 12/29/2001, Peter typed these words:

>How long have you had win2k running since the last reformat/reinstall?  Do
>you have the "RPC locator" service running as well?  If so, then disable
>it.  If it's not a server then I would recommend a reinstallation.  HTH

Thanks for that, Peter.

I had disabled that service (along with several others) months ago.

Recently, Windows Media Player stopped stretching MPEG files to fit the 
window, and played it only at the original size. I tried to find a solution 
to this (including thelist), but couldn't. My last resort was reinstalling 
Windows (it's bloody annoying that it reinstalls IE5 over my IE6).

This didn't fix the Media Player problem, unfortunately. But it apparently 
changed the startup type of some services back to default :(

I turned off all unnecessary services again (setting them to "Manual" 
instead of "Disabled") and the problem is fixed.

Thanks again. :)

<tip type="Windows 2000 performance optimisation" author="Madhu Menon">

If you're running Windows 2000 Professional on your home PC that's not 
connected to any network, there are several services you can disable to get 
a fair bit of performance boost. Services like Messenger, DHCP Client, 
Clipbook service, Remote Registry Service, etc. are all not required on a 
home PC.

For a full list of services that can be disabled on a Win2K home PC, go to:
http://is-it-true.org/nt/utips/utips76.shtml

</tip>

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net




From joshstudd at acepia.net.au  Sun Dec 30 02:12:54 2001
From: joshstudd at acepia.net.au (Joshua D. Studd)
Date: Sun Dec 30 02:12:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
References: <000901c19107$19f43d40$0100a8c0@intelligence>
Message-ID: <032001c19109$cc44f910$0100a8c0@josh>

Got an address?



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mustapha Ali" <mali_subscribe at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 6:53 PM
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project


> Hello,
> 
> This is my first major project and I would like to get feedback from you
> guys.........i know there are some bugs like improper displaying of the
> CSS in Netscape (could I get help with that????).......but so far
> everything works well with IE......thanks a lot.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From one at redberger.com  Sun Dec 30 03:16:04 2001
From: one at redberger.com (Jose Illenberger)
Date: Sun Dec 30 03:16:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] centering pop-up windows using dreamweaver
Message-ID: <003b01c19112$939a8220$22f108ca@berger>

hello!
 i am using DW4 and i have a question.
i am trying to do pop-up windows using dw and ive done it.
i have observed that the pop-up windows that dw produces
opens up randomly on the screen. i have seen on other sites
that pop-ups can open in certain parts of the screen accdg to whatever
coordinates you specify. ive peeked at their code and it seems to have been
handcoded. my question is, can i reproduce such a thing using dreamweaver
and if yes, how?

i just want to make the pop-up appear in the center screen whenever they are
clicked. thanks!






................................................
Jose Illenberger
http://www.redberger.com
icq: 113230862
................................................

'Codito, Ergo Sum'





From peter at poorbuthappy.com  Sun Dec 30 05:29:42 2001
From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (Peter)
Date: Sun Dec 30 05:29:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Templating solutions?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c190c3$b08df3c0$1631a8c0@hot7>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230112055.00a7b588@mail.poorbuthappy.com>

>What does one do when the templates of most pages within one site differ 
>in look
>and feel? One possibility would be to specify a template, load it into a
>variable and replace certain marked spots (a la "<!--left_navbar-->") with the
>dynamically created code/text using eregi_replace() or something similar.
>
>What are the templating solutions available? Pros and cons?

You want to use something like FastTemplates (available for several 
languages). What it does (and others similar to it) is to remove ALL coding 
from the HTML. So your templates look something like

<html>
<head>
<title>{DOCTITLE}</title>
</head>
<body>
<h1>{PAGETITLE}</h1>

where doctitile and pagetitle are just a few of the variables you create in 
your code. If you use this, you could even edit your templates with 
dreamweaver, and they'd still work. Very powerful. Then, the code for each 
page could be something like: (if you're using PHP)

<?
include ("../../main_includes.php");
$page = 85;
$template = "funkytemplate.tpl";
$cachetime = 500;
generate_template($page, $template, $cachetime)
?>

All the magic happens in main_includes.php ofcourse.

Very flexible way of coding. Good luck.
Peter




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Sun Dec 30 07:59:32 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Sun Dec 30 07:59:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011230132004.01cf7dc0@203.197.12.4>
References: <20011229074711.8608051F47@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230085042.034f5108@mail.idirect.ca>

At 01:27 PM 12/30/2001 +0530, you wrote:
>Recently, Windows Media Player stopped stretching MPEG files to fit the 
>window, and played it only at the original size. I tried to find a 
>solution to this (including thelist), but couldn't. My last resort was 
>reinstalling Windows (it's bloody annoying that it reinstalls IE5 over my IE6).
>
>This didn't fix the Media Player problem, unfortunately. But it apparently 
>changed the startup type of some services back to default :(
>
>I turned off all unnecessary services again (setting them to "Manual" 
>instead of "Disabled") and the problem is fixed.

What type of motherboard do you have in your system, and does it contain a 
VIA chipset? If you have a PCI modem then the VIA chipset may slow it down 
perhaps contributing to the high cpu usage at dialup connection, it's a bug 
with VIA. When you reinstalled did you reformat and reinstall or did you 
reinstall over windows, only a clean installation will clean up to the 
original state.  Are you running the latest drivers for all your 
hardware.  Have you tried moving cards to different slots on the 
motherboard, some boards are picky and need a reminder from time to time.
A tip is coming ;-)

Peter Kaulback




From zealot at sneakernet.dhs.org  Sun Dec 30 09:05:10 2001
From: zealot at sneakernet.dhs.org (zealot)
Date: Sun Dec 30 09:05:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230085042.034f5108@mail.idirect.ca>
Message-ID: <000401c19143$0ea05730$2a01a8c0@HABANERO>

Do you have a large HOSTS file and are running Windows 2000? If so,
reduce the number of entries to less than a dozen and see if that helps
(backup your original HOSTS file first).

Do you have ACPI enabled in BIOS? If, so disable it and see if that
helps.


:: -----Original Message-----
:: From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
:: [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Peter Kaulback
:: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:59 AM
:: To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
:: Subject: Re: [thelist] Win2K - Services.exe 100% CPU usage
:: 
:: 
:: At 01:27 PM 12/30/2001 +0530, you wrote:
:: >Recently, Windows Media Player stopped stretching MPEG 
:: files to fit the
:: >window, and played it only at the original size. I tried to find a 
:: >solution to this (including thelist), but couldn't. My last 
:: resort was 
:: >reinstalling Windows (it's bloody annoying that it 
:: reinstalls IE5 over my IE6).
:: >
:: >This didn't fix the Media Player problem, unfortunately. But it 
:: >apparently
:: >changed the startup type of some services back to default :(
:: >
:: >I turned off all unnecessary services again (setting them 
:: to "Manual"
:: >instead of "Disabled") and the problem is fixed.
:: 
:: What type of motherboard do you have in your system, and 
:: does it contain a 
:: VIA chipset? If you have a PCI modem then the VIA chipset 
:: may slow it down 
:: perhaps contributing to the high cpu usage at dialup 
:: connection, it's a bug 
:: with VIA. When you reinstalled did you reformat and 
:: reinstall or did you 
:: reinstall over windows, only a clean installation will clean 
:: up to the 
:: original state.  Are you running the latest drivers for all your 
:: hardware.  Have you tried moving cards to different slots on the 
:: motherboard, some boards are picky and need a reminder from 
:: time to time. A tip is coming ;-)
:: 
:: Peter Kaulback
:: 
:: 
:: -- 
:: For unsubscribe and other options, including
:: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: 
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From hgquinn at attglobal.net  Sun Dec 30 10:06:10 2001
From: hgquinn at attglobal.net (Heather Quinn)
Date: Sun Dec 30 10:06:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0112281223500.1498-100000@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3C2F3C3D.20807@attglobal.net>

Lots of white can be pleasant, so I don't see that as a negative.  What 
you're missing is dynamics.  The expanse of white does nothing to offset 
this.  

Header 2 has the best dynamics, due to the logotype cutout's strong 
shape and the way it focuses the eye on the logo; and the dense 
texture/depth you've achieved via the shades-of-grey and dark red 
typographic interplay in the rest of the header.  

Since you have a big investment in the header's design, consider adding 
dyanamics via color mods (more saturation, more varied palette, bigger 
range of values, or some such change).  

I'm personally not a big fan of using just two complementary colors 
against white or a neutral, as a base color scheme.  Why?  Artistically, 
it hints at risk-taking (strong color contrast) without actually taking 
the risk (white always buffers the contrast), esp. when one of the two 
colors is dulled down, as here (the red).  Emotionally, it reads as 
simultaneously strong and hesitant, which makes me feel uncomfortable 
cause I can't resolve the opposing qualities.

Imagine getting dressed.  Would you put grey chinos with a white shirt, 
dark red belt, and bright green socks?  Nope.  Switch the socks and 
shirt colors.  Again, nope.  OK, it's more formal.  Grey suit with 
lighter grey pinstripes, white shirt, dark red and bright green striped 
tie?  No way.  Got to change that tie's colors somehow.

You're doing business colors, but there's no reason not to throw a 
little hot stuff in there.  In fact, many of the most successful 
businessmen tend to be really great at using color when they dress. 
 Why? They're optimistic and full of life, and express this in their 
clothing choices.  Their appearance, including their choice of colors, 
raises the morale of those around them, creating in others an increased 
willingness to accept and support what these guys promote, which gives 
these guys a competitive edge.

So consider adding a bit more risk or lightheartedness to the color 
intensities, range of values, etc..  Some change of this kind will give 
your header enough interest to make it work the way you want it to.

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:07:01 -0500
>From: Amy Gilliland <agilliland at geosolutions.com>
>To: Evolt <thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: site header and logo
>
>I'm having trouble with a new design for a site header.
>
>The logo was designed to look best on a white background but the content
>will be on a white background so ... too much white. (see screenshot)
>
>I've decided to put the logo section in white and the rest in a light
>grey-green but it's not quite right.
>
>any ideas????
>
>some examples and screenshot
>
>http://www.geosolutions.com/about/headers.htm
>
>
>/**************************************
>Amy Gilliland
>GeoSolutions Consulting Inc.
>Web Developer/Programmer
>agilliland at geosolutions.com
>http://www.geosolutions.com
>http://mapinfo.geosolutions.com
>

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill






From joel at spinhead.com  Sun Dec 30 11:00:17 2001
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Sun Dec 30 11:00:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3C2F3C3D.20807@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <000201c19153$dfb46860$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>

Heather, the things you discuss here cover one of the largest holes in
my skillset - use of color. I think all of us could really benefit from
an article (or series of articles) expanding and explaining your
comments below. Techy folks like me who are trying to get a grip on the
artistic aspects of the web would really love a practical how-to, with
both theory and specific examples.

Your writing style is easy to read. Could I ask you to please consider a
bit of writing for evolt.org? I for one would eat it up.

Thanks for the great comments.

Joel at spinhead.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Heather Quinn
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:10 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)

[ . . . ]

You're doing business colors, but there's no reason not to throw a 
little hot stuff in there.  In fact, many of the most successful 
businessmen tend to be really great at using color when they dress. 
 Why? They're optimistic and full of life, and express this in their 
clothing choices.  Their appearance, including their choice of colors, 
raises the morale of those around them, creating in others an increased 
willingness to accept and support what these guys promote, which gives 
these guys a competitive edge.

So consider adding a bit more risk or lightheartedness to the color 
intensities, range of values, etc..  Some change of this kind will give 
your header enough interest to make it work the way you want it to.

[ . . . ]

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill





From mccreath at ak.net  Sun Dec 30 11:54:50 2001
From: mccreath at ak.net (mccreath)
Date: Sun Dec 30 11:54:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <000901c19107$19f43d40$0100a8c0@intelligence>
Message-ID: <AKELIMCDPENDPCLOGDKEIEIPDKAA.mccreath@ak.net>

> From: Mustapha Ali
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This is my first major project and I would like to get feedback from you
> guys.........i know there are some bugs like improper displaying of the
> CSS in Netscape (could I get help with that????).......but so far
> everything works well with IE......thanks a lot.

Hi, Mustapha --

Can we get a URL?

thanks,
David





From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Sun Dec 30 12:07:29 2001
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Alliax)
Date: Sun Dec 30 12:07:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
In-Reply-To: <3C2F3C3D.20807@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFBCDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>

Heather, I too, am interested in the use of colors, even if I haven't much
theory to base myself on.
In my sites I tend to use randomness to choose colorization
I choose randomly the base color, then I change the luminosity for others
gradients.

I'd like to know a simple algorythm to pass from an RGB value
R = 0-255
G = 0-255
V = 0-255
to its complementary color.

I've read somewhere that I should transform RGB into HSV and then make some
angles rotation and then convert back to RGB.
I have no idea what HSV is yet, but would you know of a simple way of
obtaining the complementary color from a RGB color ?

my site which uses dynamic colorization the most is
http://www.toulonparadise.com it's in french but it's secondary in this
matter.

Cordialement,

__ Alliax         ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From Ed at ComSimplicity.com  Sun Dec 30 13:18:43 2001
From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll)
Date: Sun Dec 30 13:18:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE Problem - [perhaps a bit OT]
In-Reply-To: <003901c190c9$3fe541e0$c432893e@woody>
Message-ID: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHAEEJDEAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>

Just a couple of quick guesses...

Did you make sure IE isn't in the Startup folder?

I think Win95 has a utility that will get you to all the ways startup
programs are hooked in.  (Win98 does.)  Try START | RUN | MSCONFIG, and
then be really careful what you change.

Could "ie4tour.dll/welcome.htm" be what IE is trying to use as a home page,
and could it be failing because it's a part of the IE 4.0 installation
which was replaced by IE5?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Olly
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 4:31 PM
> To: theList at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] IE Problem - [perhaps a bit OT]
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm messing about on my mum's PC - using Win95. After replacing the modem
> (the old one had hamsters in it) I downloaded IE5.5SP2 and
> installed it. And
> now whenever I start up the PC I get the IE4 Welcome window pop
> up. Except
> it looks for res://ie4tour.dll/welcome.htm then comes up with the cannot
> find server error. So there is no "dont show me this again" checkbox type
> thing.





From hgquinn at attglobal.net  Sun Dec 30 14:43:53 2001
From: hgquinn at attglobal.net (Heather Quinn)
Date: Sun Dec 30 14:43:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
References: <000201c19153$dfb46860$6401a8c0@eratosthenes>
Message-ID: <3C2F7D50.1080902@attglobal.net>

I'm no color expert.  It's easier be a ciritic than to create.   My 
background is fine arts and programming.  Fine arts is really different 
from design.  I consider design to be a higher-level, harder skill to 
build than fine art skills, which rely so much on intuition.  In design, 
you need to let your intuition flow *and* know what you're doing -- get 
visually analytical, etc.  And I'm still working on that :).  If my 
writing was easy to read it was cause I was addressing y'all, and so 
took 40 minutes of editing and rediting to make that post work.

So, your request for an expansion of this discussion might be better 
taken up by some of the more experienced designers on the list.  Any 
volunteers for a color article?  

(...but if no one else volunteers an article on color, then I'll do one.)

Joel D Canfield wrote:

>Heather, the things you discuss here cover one of the largest holes in
>my skillset - use of color. I think all of us could really benefit from
>an article (or series of articles) expanding and explaining your
>comments below. Techy folks like me who are trying to get a grip on the
>artistic aspects of the web would really love a practical how-to, with
>both theory and specific examples.
>
>Your writing style is easy to read. Could I ask you to please consider a
>bit of writing for evolt.org? I for one would eat it up.
>
>Thanks for the great comments.
>
>Joel at spinhead.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Heather Quinn
>Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:10 AM
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] site header and logo (fwd)
>
>[ . . . ]
>
>You're doing business colors, but there's no reason not to throw a 
>little hot stuff in there.  In fact, many of the most successful 
>businessmen tend to be really great at using color when they dress. 
> Why? They're optimistic and full of life, and express this in their 
>clothing choices.  Their appearance, including their choice of colors, 
>raises the morale of those around them, creating in others an increased 
>willingness to accept and support what these guys promote, which gives 
>these guys a competitive edge.
>
>So consider adding a bit more risk or lightheartedness to the color 
>intensities, range of values, etc..  Some change of this kind will give 
>your header enough interest to make it work the way you want it to.
>
>[ . . . ]
>

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill






From hgquinn at attglobal.net  Sun Dec 30 15:22:18 2001
From: hgquinn at attglobal.net (Heather Quinn)
Date: Sun Dec 30 15:22:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
References: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFBCDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3C2F8654.8010004@attglobal.net>

By complement, I assume you are using the technical term meaning an 
opposing color, and that you don't mean "complimentary", or a 
harmonizing, color.  

My seat-ot-the-pants approach to getting a perfect complement is to take 
the color I want to create a complement for and reverse the three RGB 
values.  If pure blue's RGB triplet values are 0/0/255, my method 
calculates its complement as 255/0/0.  This is yellow, which is the 
correct complement of pure blue in the RGB light-based system.  

This approach takes the RGB value triplet, and subtracts each of the 3 
values from 255, then  uses each remainder to replace each of the three 
original values.  So a golden color that's  204/153/51 would have a 
complement of 51/102/204, which is a warm blue.  I think the reason this 
seems to work visually is that in light-based color, there's a maximum 
amount of light that can be distributed across the three color channels, 
and my little trick does a "negative" redistribution of light across 
each channel, which keeps the total light value the same, but flips the 
color balance.  This may be technically incorrect, but the resulting 
values look complementary to me, in that they vibrate against each 
other. They are also the same colors that result if, in PS, you do a 
color fill, select it, then do Image, Adjust, Invert.  

But if I'm giving out misinformation, I hope someone will chime in to 
correct me.

Alliax wrote:

>Heather, I too, am interested in the use of colors, even if I haven't much
>theory to base myself on.
>In my sites I tend to use randomness to choose colorization
>I choose randomly the base color, then I change the luminosity for others
>gradients.
>
>I'd like to know a simple algorythm to pass from an RGB value
>R = 0-255
>G = 0-255
>V = 0-255
>to its complementary color.
>
>I've read somewhere that I should transform RGB into HSV and then make some
>angles rotation and then convert back to RGB.
>I have no idea what HSV is yet, but would you know of a simple way of
>obtaining the complementary color from a RGB color ?
>
>my site which uses dynamic colorization the most is
>http://www.toulonparadise.com it's in french but it's secondary in this
>matter.
>
>Cordialement,
>
>__ Alliax         ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
>Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
>Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
>Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>

-- 
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com
hgquinn at attglobal.net
http://pws.prserv.net/windyhill






From persist1 at io.com  Sun Dec 30 16:06:33 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sun Dec 30 16:06:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFBCDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112301541100.24872-100000@hagbard.io.com>

On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Alliax wrote:

> Heather, I too, am interested in the use of colors, even if I haven't much
> theory to base myself on.
> In my sites I tend to use randomness to choose colorization
> I choose randomly the base color, then I change the luminosity for others
> gradients.
>
> I'd like to know a simple algorythm to pass from an RGB value
> R = 0-255
> G = 0-255
> V = 0-255
> to its complementary color.

Well...

Photoshop's invert command just does the following to each pixel:

Inverse == (255 - Orig)

If you're looking to preserve saturation and brightness, the easiest
approach is simply to put in the value into Photoshop's color picker that
is 180deg removed (Image > Adjust... > Hue/Saturation also works for this
purpose.)

There is a way to do it, though I don't know what it is...

I found some Java code here:

http://www.examsky.com/jglossh.html
[under 'HSB']

that might provide a few clues, as might this list of links:

http://www.efg2.com/Lab/Library/Color/Science.htm

The Google search I used to find these links was 'rgb hsb convert formula'
(no quotes, of course).

> I've read somewhere that I should transform RGB into HSV and then make some
> angles rotation and then convert back to RGB.
> I have no idea what HSV is yet, but would you know of a simple way of
> obtaining the complementary color from a RGB color ?

All right, for follow-up's sake:

H = Hue (where is it on the color wheel?)
S = Saturation (the closer to grey, the less saturated)
B = Brightness (do I have to explain this? also referred to as Value -
    which actually belongs to a different model if I understand correctly)

Actually, I took a second look and found this (as written in C, I think):

http://www.cs.rit.edu/~ncs/color/t_convert.html

The HSB model works as follows (in this instance, I'll use percentages
for all three values):

If your Hue value is 0% or 100%, the color produced is red.

If it's 50%, the color produced is cyan.

Thus 33% would be green, and 67% blue.

A more detailed explanation of this can be found at:

http://webdesign.about.com/library/weekly/aa111201a.htm

A Saturation value of 0% will always be on the greyscale; if your
Saturation value is 100%, the corresponding RGB value will have at least
one channel with a value of zero.

When Brightness is set to 0%, the result is (always, regardless of the
other values) black; if it's 100%, the corresponding RGB value will have
at least one channel with a value of 100% (255).

These statements are easy (and perhaps even fun) to test with the color
picker of your favorite graphics software.


HTH
-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From asifsuria at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 17:00:19 2001
From: asifsuria at yahoo.com (Asif Suria)
Date: Sun Dec 30 17:00:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] too many bots
In-Reply-To: <000301c184c3$09b41310$0100a8c0@UrDaDDY>
Message-ID: <20011230230026.33705.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for this information Aleem. I was looking for a
good software to analyze our server logs.

--- Aleem <aleem at mindless.com> wrote:
> > Say, while we're talking about logs, what do you
> use to read 
> > them?  We're using Webalyzer right now and it
> s?cks.
> 
> http://awstats.sourceforge.net
> 
> -aleem


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Sun Dec 30 20:05:56 2001
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Alliax)
Date: Sun Dec 30 20:05:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
In-Reply-To: <3C2F8654.8010004@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFICDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>

Hello, thanks for both your and Ben's answers.

Thanks to Ben who's found the RGB2HSV function:
http://www.cs.rit.edu/~ncs/color/t_convert.html

Heather, I was not interrested in getting the inverse of a RGB color,
because I already worked the solution out, it wasn't that hard :-)
But as far as my art theory goes, inverse colours are not specialy useful
visually, except for black and white.. (perhaps I don't see the obvious
usefulness of inverse colours?)

It was just that I recently heard of a complimentary color to each color,
and I thought I could use that in order to create visually pleasing sites
without choosing the base colour myself.

Since I'll do it in PHP, I think once you have converted your RGB values to
HSV, you have to do a rotation of the H angle, change a little bit (random
offset) S and V values for not looking too rigid in the choice of colours.
Then you'll have to convert back your new HSV values to RGB in order to use
them in HTML table borders and likewise graphical elements on your page.

from what I understood, the rotation of H angle should be 180?
I take this from this page:
http://www.liquisoft.com/color.html
I think it's correct, I'll report to evolt about that after my tests if it's
wrong.

I'll do testing on toulonparadise.com as soon as I have the courage, surely
next year :-)

Thanks again

Cordialement,

__ Alliax         ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com





From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Sun Dec 30 20:19:14 2001
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Alliax)
Date: Sun Dec 30 20:19:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFICDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFAEFJCDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>

Simply to add that from the text on the page
http://www.liquisoft.com/color.html

I noticed also that instead of using a 180? rotation, using a +60? or -60?
for the rotation of the H angle, would provide the sort of effect this page
uses, colors that goes together well (blue and green)

Mastering the HSV model (and the small trigo maths involved, never worked it
out totally yet) would also provide more convenient ways of using the notion
of warm / cool colors than in RGB.

--
an example of using these notions would be:
if user's computer time is daylight, dynamic site shows a mix of warm colors
and some uses of complimentary colors.
if it's evening, night time uses cold colours, and all in nuances, by using
30 to 60? rotations only.

Good night.

Cordialement,

__ Alliax         ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com

-----Message d'origine-----
De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Alliax
Envoy? : lundi 31 d?cembre 2001 03:04
? : thelist at lists.evolt.org
Objet : RE: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)


Hello, thanks for both your and Ben's answers.

Thanks to Ben who's found the RGB2HSV function:
http://www.cs.rit.edu/~ncs/color/t_convert.html

Heather, I was not interrested in getting the inverse of a RGB color,
because I already worked the solution out, it wasn't that hard :-)
But as far as my art theory goes, inverse colours are not specialy useful
visually, except for black and white.. (perhaps I don't see the obvious
usefulness of inverse colours?)

It was just that I recently heard of a complimentary color to each color,
and I thought I could use that in order to create visually pleasing sites
without choosing the base colour myself.

Since I'll do it in PHP, I think once you have converted your RGB values to
HSV, you have to do a rotation of the H angle, change a little bit (random
offset) S and V values for not looking too rigid in the choice of colours.
Then you'll have to convert back your new HSV values to RGB in order to use
them in HTML table borders and likewise graphical elements on your page.

from what I understood, the rotation of H angle should be 180?
I take this from this page:
http://www.liquisoft.com/color.html
I think it's correct, I'll report to evolt about that after my tests if it's
wrong.

I'll do testing on toulonparadise.com as soon as I have the courage, surely
next year :-)

Thanks again

Cordialement,

__ Alliax         ~CV : http://LingoParadise.com/cv.php
Un site pour Toulon : http://www.ToulonParadise.com
Un site pour Renaud : http://www.rfaucilhon.com
Un site pour Director : http://www.LingoParadise.com



--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From mali_subscribe at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 21:24:41 2001
From: mali_subscribe at yahoo.com (Mustapha Ali)
Date: Sun Dec 30 21:24:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <032001c19109$cc44f910$0100a8c0@josh>
Message-ID: <000201c191aa$7fb8a640$0100a8c0@intelligence>

Sorry guys........could've sworn I stuck the URL in there
somewhere.......here it is:

http://www.procicaribe.org

all feedback is appreciated........i'm learning as I go
along......thanks a lot.





-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Studd
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:13 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Review requested: My first project

Got an address?



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mustapha Ali" <mali_subscribe at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 6:53 PM
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project


> Hello,
> 
> This is my first major project and I would like to get feedback from
you
> guys.........i know there are some bugs like improper displaying of
the
> CSS in Netscape (could I get help with that????).......but so far
> everything works well with IE......thanks a lot.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


-- 
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From persist1 at io.com  Sun Dec 30 21:41:33 2001
From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick)
Date: Sun Dec 30 21:41:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] The use of color (was site header and logo)
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIEBHEMGEEEMEEEPFEEFICDAA.damiencola@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112302122370.5646-100000@eris.io.com>

On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Alliax wrote:

> Hello, thanks for both your and Ben's answers.
>
> Thanks to Ben who's found the RGB2HSV function:
> http://www.cs.rit.edu/~ncs/color/t_convert.html
>
> Heather, I was not interrested in getting the inverse of a RGB color,
> because I already worked the solution out, it wasn't that hard :-)

D'oh!  I remember making the same suggestion.

> But as far as my art theory goes, inverse colours are not specialy useful
> visually, except for black and white.. (perhaps I don't see the obvious
> usefulness of inverse colours?)

Actually, there is one that comes immediately to mind:  for high/low
brightness values, inverse colors provide good contrast.

The hard part is coming up with an accent color that fits both those
colors and the intent of your design.  If anyone here has undertaken
formal study of color theory as it applies to doing design in the Real
World, they've probably had some instruction on which accent colors work
well with a given pair of inverse colors.

> It was just that I recently heard of a complimentary color to each color,
> and I thought I could use that in order to create visually pleasing sites
> without choosing the base colour myself.

Erm, while intriguing I'm not sure what the application of such an
approach would be.  The associations made by a given culture with the
range of visible hues are often too strong to be ignored by any designer,
unless their intent is to deliberately "break the rules."  Perhaps that's
exactly what you're trying to do here.

When you factor in other considerations such as ambient light,
color-deficient visitors, and type usage, it quickly becomes apparent that
the traditions associated with applied color theory came into being for
excellent (and often entirely practical) reasons.

> Since I'll do it in PHP, I think once you have converted your RGB values to
> HSV, you have to do a rotation of the H angle, change a little bit (random
> offset) S and V values for not looking too rigid in the choice of colours.
> Then you'll have to convert back your new HSV values to RGB in order to use
> them in HTML table borders and likewise graphical elements on your page.
>
> from what I understood, the rotation of H angle should be 180?

...For complements, yes.

60deg and 180deg values suggest primary <=> secondary, while 30deg and
90deg suggest primary <=> tertiary and secondary <=> tertiary.

This concept applies just as well (if not more effectively) to RGB color
than to the other commonly used models; in a primary color, one channel is
predominant; in a secondary color, two channels are predominant; and in a
tertiary color there is an obvious mathematical relationship between *all
three* channels.

Before I go, I want to point out the following:

http://www.digital-web.com/columns/digisect/digisect_2001-04.shtml

which disucusses effective ways to use "official-looking" colors,
specifically those between green and blue.


-- 
Ben Henick
Web Author At-Large              Managing Editor
http://www.io.com/persist1/      http://www.digital-web.com/
persist1 at io.com                  bmh at digital-web.com
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid."
"We will disguise ourselves as a cow."
"Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"




From mg at markgroen.com  Sun Dec 30 22:47:03 2001
From: mg at markgroen.com (Mark Groen)
Date: Sun Dec 30 22:47:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
References: <000201c191aa$7fb8a640$0100a8c0@intelligence>
Message-ID: <001a01c191b5$dc975d60$6501a8c0@cr10746a>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mustapha Ali" <mali_subscribe at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: December 30, 2001 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Review requested: My first project


> Sorry guys........could've sworn I stuck the URL in there
> somewhere.......here it is:
>
> http://www.procicaribe.org
>
> all feedback is appreciated........i'm learning as I go
> along......thanks a lot.
>

    Lots of pages, the text was too light, (grey on white), for me to
read well on my monitor. In your bodyText.css file you can drop the
margin and padding attributes as they are set to zero anyways and old
versions of NN have a problem with one of those attributes - padding I
think? My eyes aren't what they used to be, and it would have been nice
to increase the font size a little but I couldn't easily, as the font
sizes are set to pixels instead of something like ems. Just looked at
your other CSS files, looks like they could be combined into one, and
you can drop the margin and padding attributes on the other two also.
    On the home page still, between your map of the Carib and the
Welcome blurb you have a number of
<p align="center">&nbsp;</p> spaces, way too many as the Welcome blurb
first sentence barely shows up on the bottom of a 15" monitor set at
800x600.
    Easy to navigate site, well laid out with lots of information, but
just a little hard to read.

HTH!

Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada





From mali_subscribe at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 22:59:21 2001
From: mali_subscribe at yahoo.com (Mustapha Ali)
Date: Sun Dec 30 22:59:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <001a01c191b5$dc975d60$6501a8c0@cr10746a>
Message-ID: <000001c191b7$b8e93b20$0100a8c0@intelligence>

Thanks a lot Mark......the site still has got a long way to go........i
haven't started to clean up the coding as yet......i'm concentrating on
getting content up (and believe me when I say the content is coming in
sloooow)......i'd say by the end of February the coding will be much
improved..........thanks for your feedback.



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mark Groen
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:44 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Review requested: My first project


    Lots of pages, the text was too light, (grey on white), for me to
read well on my monitor. In your bodyText.css file you can drop the
margin and padding attributes as they are set to zero anyways and old
versions of NN have a problem with one of those attributes - padding I
think? My eyes aren't what they used to be, and it would have been nice
to increase the font size a little but I couldn't easily, as the font
sizes are set to pixels instead of something like ems. Just looked at
your other CSS files, looks like they could be combined into one, and
you can drop the margin and padding attributes on the other two also.
    On the home page still, between your map of the Carib and the
Welcome blurb you have a number of
<p align="center">&nbsp;</p> spaces, way too many as the Welcome blurb
first sentence barely shows up on the bottom of a 15" monitor set at
800x600.
    Easy to navigate site, well laid out with lots of information, but
just a little hard to read.

HTH!

Mark Groen

MG Web Services
Web Site Hosting and Development
www.markgroen.com
mg at markgroen.com
604-780-6917
Vancouver, Canada



-- 
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From seahorse at inreach.com  Sun Dec 30 23:36:57 2001
From: seahorse at inreach.com (C Williams)
Date: Sun Dec 30 23:36:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
References: <000201c191aa$7fb8a640$0100a8c0@intelligence>
Message-ID: <000f01c191bd$1d3c6bb0$e09efea9@dual700>

It is a drastic improvement over the old site.  Very drastic.

1.  I think I would move the content over on the inside pages. The are all
left aligned and it is almost flush up to the edge of the left side of the
page, and maybe use bullets for the sub points.  I like the overall
layout...very consistent.

2.  Carinet and biosystematics link to the same page.  The cryptic words and
the simple words link to the same pages.  I suppose your users will
understand this, but it took me a few to find the matches.

3.  The blinking headlines is the only thing that *really* bothered me....it
really takes away from the site.

4.  No real banner  for the inside pages...but it looks like this is still
in the works and you are probably doing this anyhow.

Chris
(not a guy)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mustapha Ali" <mali_subscribe at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Review requested: My first project


> Sorry guys........could've sworn I stuck the URL in there
> somewhere.......here it is:
>
> http://www.procicaribe.org
>
> all feedback is appreciated........i'm learning as I go
> along......thanks a lot.
>





From thelist at cbizz.net  Sun Dec 30 23:46:57 2001
From: thelist at cbizz.net (profjj)
Date: Sun Dec 30 23:46:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <001a01c191b5$dc975d60$6501a8c0@cr10746a>
Message-ID: <000001c191bd$7935f3f0$67d780ce@quicksilver>

Mustapha,

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>>
> > Sorry guys........could've sworn I stuck the URL in there 
> > somewhere.......here it is:
> >
> > http://www.procicaribe.org
> >
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>>

One thing about design, is to make allownace for as many possible
scenarios as possible.

- What if I turned off my Javascript?

Then your site is left with no navigation.

Maybe a good idea is to :~

A) All of the links at the top for the menu ~ "Procaribe,
Capgernet,...".  Instead of the #, tie in a page with the plain links
for all the pages in the drop down menu.
B) Have a sitemap of all the major pages, that way everyone is taken
care of.
C) Have some text links somewhere on the site.

- the headlines graphic looks a bit jaggered @ the top edge, when It
blinks.

- not a must, but might look a bit better, why not leave procicaribe
logo @ the top left corner on all the pages, and then have the other
sites logo in the right hand side.

-also, u could remove the extra comments that really are not necessary

	"<!--   This table was automatically created with Macromedia
Fireworks 4.0   -->"

-The page last updated, could be positioned near the bottom, preferably
not @ the top, as it looks like that is one of the  main focal points of
the page.

- http://www.procicaribe.org/main/structure.htm ~ on this page, you can
use an alt text for the image, should it get broken up and/or for better
accessibilty.

Other than that gr8 job.

<name>Profjj</name>
<email>thelist at cbizz.net</email>
<url>http://www.cbizz.net</url>
<country>St. Lucia</country> 





From thelist at cbizz.net  Sun Dec 30 23:47:01 2001
From: thelist at cbizz.net (profjj)
Date: Sun Dec 30 23:47:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Review requested: My first project
In-Reply-To: <001a01c191b5$dc975d60$6501a8c0@cr10746a>
Message-ID: <000101c191bd$7fb79a30$67d780ce@quicksilver>

Mustapha,

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>>
> > Sorry guys........could've sworn I stuck the URL in there 
> > somewhere.......here it is:
> >
> > http://www.procicaribe.org
> >
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>>

One thing about design, is to make allownace for as many possible
scenarios as possible.

- What if I turned off my Javascript?

Then your site is left with no navigation.

Maybe a good idea is to :~

A) All of the links at the top for the menu ~ "Procaribe,
Capgernet,...".  Instead of the #, tie in a page with the plain links
for all the pages in the drop down menu.
B) Have a sitemap of all the major pages, that way everyone is taken
care of.
C) Have some text links somewhere on the site.

- the headlines graphic looks a bit jaggered @ the top edge, when It
blinks.

- not a must, but might look a bit better, why not leave procicaribe
logo @ the top left corner on all the pages, and then have the other
sites logo in the right hand side.

-also, u could remove the extra comments that really are not necessary

	"<!--   This table was automatically created with Macromedia
Fireworks 4.0   -->"

-The page last updated, could be positioned near the bottom, preferably
not @ the top, as it looks like that is one of the  main focal points of
the page.

- http://www.procicaribe.org/main/structure.htm ~ on this page, you can
use an alt text for the image, should it get broken up and/or for better
accessibilty.

Other than that gr8 job.

<name>Profjj</name>
<email>thelist at cbizz.net</email>
<url>http://www.cbizz.net</url>
<country>St. Lucia</country>