Cleaning Bird Poop

... Yuck! and you're doing that on every page! so much for separating form from content. And because you're using auto-prepended files, you can't set those variables and this won't work anyway. In this case, $PHP_SELF (or maybe $REQUEST_URI if you insist on using 'get' variables) is your friend. Lay out the directory structure in accordance with the site structure and use helpful file names. Once you have broken down files by heirarchy, it is easy to assign stylesheets, secondary navigation and anything else you can dream up based on the user's whereabouts. In the above example, the url would be: http://www.example.com/Cleaning/Bird_Poop.php but in this case, the .htaccess file reads: --- auto_prepend_file "header.inc" auto_append_file "footer.inc" --- the file Bird_Poop.php would begin with: ---

People and their nicknames

From sarah at meatlike.com Tue Feb 19 18:27:00 2002 From: sarah at meatlike.com (Sarah Heffron) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:27:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help In-Reply-To: <000201c1b9a2$c2003ac0$093efea9@Portabase> Message-ID: Sorry for not being clear, anyhow, the data is coming from mysql. This is what I have: $sql = "select * from entries order by entry_date desc"; $result = mysql_query($sql); $total_entries = mysql_num_rows($result); for ($i = 0; $i < $total_entries; $i++) { $row = mysql_fetch_array($result); $date = strtotime ($row["entry_date"]); $date = date("F j, Y", $date); echo "$date
"; echo $row["entry_body"] . "
"; echo "

"; } I want to print out a date and then all the entries for that date underneath it (this is to be a "food journal") and then onto the next date, etc.. Right now what I have will print out date and entry for every entry no matter what. ColdFusion had a nice group attribute that made this quite easy, I'm not sure if theres an equivalent for PHP. So what will print out is something like this: February 19, 2002 1. 2. 3. February 18, 2002 1. 2. rather than: February 19, 2002 1. February 19, 2002 2. February 19, 2002 3. I hope that that is more easily understood. Thanks, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Mullenweg Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:09 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] php/mysql help Where is the data coming from? (database, text file...) Here's an example of parsing data from a mysql database. Like so: // this assumes a connection to the database using mysql_pconnect $sql = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM people") or die(mysql_error()); while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($sql)) { $first = $row['first']; //assign variables to the fields in the database which have been broken into an array $nick = $row['nickname']; $middle = $row['middle']; $last = $row['last']; // now conc. the formatted data $people .= "

$first $middle $last
\n$first's nickname is '$nick'"; } Then later on in the page you can just echo it out wherever you want it:

People and their nicknames

Hope that's at least a little relevant to your question. If not just fire back some specifics :) -Matt > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] > On Behalf Of Sarah Heffron > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5:36 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help > > I have some data that I would like to display in this fashion: > > Feburary 19, 2002 > 9:14am > blahblahblah -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From msharma at satyam.net.in Tue Feb 19 18:30:01 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CGI error References: <20020219180647.C8EBD3AFC@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <00d601c1b9a5$de8b5460$5ad1d6d2@manish> Hello Flavia, I would like to add a few more points to David's message 4). Be sure to upload the CGI files as ASCII ONLY! 5). change permissions chmod 755 should work. Be sure that the directory also has execute permissions 6). Finally check up the FAQs of your hosts Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From msharma at satyam.net.in Tue Feb 19 18:30:06 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:30:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Is there an easy way to create new Radio Buttons? References: Message-ID: <00d701c1b9a5$df7650a0$5ad1d6d2@manish> John, A solution that would work (simple for checkboxes but would involve a little more coding for radio buttons) 1). Create two images. One of the radio button "on" state and one for "off" 2). Preload the images 3). Attach the onclick() JavaScript event to each "off" state radio button image so that its source (SRC) changes to "on" state At the same time, give a value to a hidden element which signifies that a radio button/checkbox has been clicked 4). Send the values via the normal way I hope all this makes sense, but I know it will work. How? I implemented similar "jazzy" stuff on one of my client's site. Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From msharma at satyam.net.in Tue Feb 19 18:30:19 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:30:19 2002 Subject: [thelist] Call html page with php References: <3C72D27C.9533.16999C@localhost> Message-ID: <00d801c1b9a5$e068ee00$5ad1d6d2@manish> Melvin, You can try changing the SRC of the frame using JavaScript Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From msharma at satyam.net.in Tue Feb 19 18:33:01 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Software for Cursors and Icons References: <001301c1b980$24a610a0$ad0487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <00e301c1b9a6$5424eba0$5ad1d6d2@manish> Hello Syed, Two pointers (no pun): 1). http://cometzone.cometsystems.com/ 2). Impact Software: Microangelo 98 : www.impactsoft.com/muangelo/download/muadnld.htm (not free) Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From matt at swcdesign.com Tue Feb 19 18:40:00 2002 From: matt at swcdesign.com (Matthew Mullenweg) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c1b9a7$2cfade80$093efea9@Portabase> Ohhhh okay. This might not be the best/most efficient way to do it, but it'll work: $sql = "SELECT DISTINCT entry_date FROM entries ORDER BY entry_date DESC"; $result = mysql_query($sql); // I'm going to skip the total entries thing, they both do the same thing basically while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($sql)) { $entry_date = $row['entry_date']; $display .= "

$entry_date

\n"; // now lets select all the entries for that date $events = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM entries WHERE entry_date = $entry_date"); while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($events)) { $event_body = $row['event_body']; $display .= "

$event_body

"; } } Try dropping that in and let me know if it works. > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] > On Behalf Of Sarah Heffron > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 6:27 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] php/mysql help > > Sorry for not being clear, anyhow, the data is coming from mysql. > > This is what I have: > > $sql = "select * from entries order by entry_date desc"; > $result = mysql_query($sql); > $total_entries = mysql_num_rows($result); > > for ($i = 0; $i < $total_entries; $i++) { > $row = mysql_fetch_array($result); > $date = strtotime ($row["entry_date"]); > $date = date("F j, Y", $date); > echo "$date
"; > echo $row["entry_body"] . "
"; > echo "

"; > } > > > I want to print out a date and then all the entries for that date > underneath > it (this is to be a "food journal") and then onto the next date, etc.. > Right > now what I have will print out date and entry for every entry no matter > what. ColdFusion had a nice group attribute that made this quite easy, I'm > not sure if theres an equivalent for PHP. > > So what will print out is something like this: > > February 19, 2002 > 1. > 2. > 3. > > February 18, 2002 > 1. > 2. > > rather than: > > > February 19, 2002 > 1. > February 19, 2002 > 2. > February 19, 2002 > 3. > > I hope that that is more easily understood. > > Thanks, > Sarah From Anthony at Baratta.com Tue Feb 19 18:43:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help In-Reply-To: References: <000201c1b9a2$c2003ac0$093efea9@Portabase> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020219163051.02898b18@baratta.com> At 04:27 PM 2/19/2002, Sarah Heffron wrote: >Sorry for not being clear, anyhow, the data is coming from mysql. > >I want to print out a date and then all the entries for that date underneath >it (this is to be a "food journal") and then onto the next date, etc.. Right >now what I have will print out date and entry for every entry no matter >what. ColdFusion had a nice group attribute that made this quite easy, I'm >not sure if theres an equivalent for PHP. Sarah... There are a bazillion ways to tackle this. Here's one: (my PHP is very rusty, take this with a grain of salt.) $sql = "select entry_body, entry_date "; $sql .= "from entries order by entry_date desc"; $result = mysql_query($sql); $total_entries = mysql_num_rows($result); $MonthDay = ""; for ($i = 0; $i < $total_entries; $i++) { $row = mysql_fetch_array($result); $date = strtotime ($row["entry_date"]); if ($MonthDay ne date("F j", $date)) { $MonthDay = date("F j", $date); $date = date("F j, Y", $date); } else { $date = date("g:i a", $date); } echo "$date
"; echo $row["entry_body"] . "
"; echo "

"; } ---- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From dan at danromanchik.com Tue Feb 19 18:47:00 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: Message-ID: <037101c1b9a8$1e08c4e0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> There isn't a group attribute, but you can still do this. Try this: $currentdate = "" while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result){ $date = strtotime ($row["entry_date"]); $date = date("F j, Y", $date); if ($currentdate != $date) { echo "$date
"; $currentdate = $date; } echo $row["entry_body"] . "
"; echo "

"; } Have fun! Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Heffron" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:27 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] php/mysql help > Sorry for not being clear, anyhow, the data is coming from mysql. > > This is what I have: > > $sql = "select * from entries order by entry_date desc"; > $result = mysql_query($sql); > $total_entries = mysql_num_rows($result); > > for ($i = 0; $i < $total_entries; $i++) { > $row = mysql_fetch_array($result); > $date = strtotime ($row["entry_date"]); > $date = date("F j, Y", $date); > echo "$date
"; > echo $row["entry_body"] . "
"; > echo "

"; > } > > > I want to print out a date and then all the entries for that date underneath > it (this is to be a "food journal") and then onto the next date, etc.. Right > now what I have will print out date and entry for every entry no matter > what. ColdFusion had a nice group attribute that made this quite easy, I'm > not sure if theres an equivalent for PHP. > > So what will print out is something like this: > > February 19, 2002 > 1. > 2. > 3. > > February 18, 2002 > 1. > 2. > > rather than: > > > February 19, 2002 > 1. > February 19, 2002 > 2. > February 19, 2002 > 3. > > I hope that that is more easily understood. > > Thanks, > Sarah > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Mullenweg > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:09 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] php/mysql help > > > Where is the data coming from? (database, text file...) > > Here's an example of parsing data from a mysql database. Like so: > > // this assumes a connection to the database using mysql_pconnect > $sql = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM people") or die(mysql_error()); > while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($sql)) { > $first = $row['first']; //assign variables to the fields in the > database which have been broken into an array > $nick = $row['nickname']; > $middle = $row['middle']; > $last = $row['last']; > // now conc. the formatted data > $people .= "

$first $middle $last
/>\n$first's nickname is '$nick'"; > } > > Then later on in the page you can just echo it out wherever you want it: >

People and their nicknames

> > > Hope that's at least a little relevant to your question. If not just > fire back some specifics :) > > -Matt > > > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] > > On Behalf Of Sarah Heffron > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5:36 PM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help > > > > I have some data that I would like to display in this fashion: > > > > Feburary 19, 2002 > > 9:14am > > blahblahblah > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From matt at swcdesign.com Tue Feb 19 18:54:01 2002 From: matt at swcdesign.com (Matthew Mullenweg) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c1b9a9$22a477a0$093efea9@Portabase> Already 3 responses with 3 different ways to do it! I forgot to put the date format stuff in there, so just drop that in between the $entry_date and $display line. -Matt From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Feb 19 19:09:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Is there an easy way to create new Radio Buttons? In-Reply-To: <00d701c1b9a5$df7650a0$5ad1d6d2@manish> Message-ID: manish, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Manish Sharma > > A solution that would work (simple for checkboxes but > would involve a little more coding for radio buttons) > > 1). Create two images. One of the radio button "on" > state and one for "off" > 2). Preload the images > 3). Attach the onclick() JavaScript event to each > "off" state radio button image so that its source > (SRC) changes to "on" state At the same time, give > a value to a hidden element which signifies that a > radio button/checkbox has been clicked > 4). Send the values via the normal way > > I hope all this makes sense, but I know it will work. > How? I implemented similar "jazzy" stuff on one of my > client's site. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< how do you account for non-js users? do you just cut your losses with them with the notion that the whiz-bang eye candy is more important than including them? there's a better solution, but it involves replacing elements in the dom. the form starts out with normal form elements to begin with and then upon page load the html for them is replaced with html for the image with attached event handlers and the associated hidden input. if you're in the habit of developing things without considering the consequences, then i've got an article you need to read: Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ enjoy, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From wihartoyo at telkom.net Tue Feb 19 19:14:01 2002 From: wihartoyo at telkom.net (Mas Ajar Laliyuswa) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG HTML Editor Message-ID: <005e01c1b9b3$d78cd4a0$6401a8c0@mshome.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hello evolt-er! I have a problem about updating artikel on my site. Here I want to provide facility for all of our user to update his artikel and store it into MySQL Data base. The problem is not all user can use HTML tag so not all user can update his artikel with his format. To solve this problem I want to provide on-line WYSIWYG HTML Editor on my Site but I can not build it by my self. Does anyone know where I can get this software? -- From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com Tue Feb 19 19:14:09 2002 From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (JCanfield at magisnetworks.com) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:14:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] ssinc.dll gives 401 but asp.dll does not Message-ID: <9C564844426BB945B9AD8FD0106D905DA7DA@grog> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Set up a new IIS5 box, and instead of parsing HTML thru asp.dll like I usually do on Win2K boxen I used ssinc.dll (since I really only want it to parse for includes, not ASP code.) No matter what I did, I got an authentication challenge when I tried to access the page via the browser. When I changed the parsing to use asp.dll instead of ssinc.dll everything was hunky dory. All NTFS perms on the file structure are correct, and IUSR_machinename has log on locally rights, all the usual perms nonsense. Anyone heard of this? Anyone know how to fix it? Ssinc.dll shows identical perms to asp.dll. Thanks. Joel at spinhead.com From msharma at satyam.net.in Tue Feb 19 19:15:01 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: Message-ID: <015001c1b9ac$3d3b6260$5ad1d6d2@manish> Hello Matt, This WILL work Note: 1). The GROUP BY clause in the first SQL query. This gets the distinct values. 2). The second SQL query (in the while loop) picks a "distinct" value and then loops through the entries using "for" \n"; $total_entries = mysql_num_rows($result2); for ($i = 0; $i < $total_entries; $i++) { $row = mysql_fetch_array($result2); print " $row[entry_body]
\n"; } } ?> Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From sarah at meatlike.com Tue Feb 19 19:24:01 2002 From: sarah at meatlike.com (Sarah Heffron) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help In-Reply-To: <015001c1b9ac$3d3b6260$5ad1d6d2@manish> Message-ID: Thank you everyone for your help. It's working perfectly now. Sarah From crawford_phil at hotmail.com Tue Feb 19 19:31:01 2002 From: crawford_phil at hotmail.com (phil crawford) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG HTML Editor Message-ID: >From: "Mas Ajar Laliyuswa" >I have a problem about updating artikel on my site. >Here I want to provide facility for all of our user to update his artikel >and store it into MySQL Data base. >The problem is not all user can use HTML tag so not all user can update his >artikel with his format. To solve this problem I want to provide on-line >WYSIWYG HTML Editor on my Site but I can not build it by my self. Does >anyone know where I can get this software? >-- I've used ActivEdit some and liked it. http://www.cfdev.com/activedit/ -phil _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From sub at shanx.com Tue Feb 19 19:58:01 2002 From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi) Date: Tue Feb 19 19:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: <015001c1b9ac$3d3b6260$5ad1d6d2@manish> Message-ID: <032701c1b9b2$1684e550$2c08a8c0@DMF59> > 1). The GROUP BY clause in the first SQL query > This gets the distinct values. > 2). The second SQL query (in the while loop) > picks a "distinct" value and then loops > through the entries using "for" Just as a matter of application design though, don't you think this is too database intensive -- too many trips to the DB? I would maybe prefer to err on the side of making *one* trip to the database, getting all the records, and then using PHP to loop through the resultset in whatever way I wanted (for convenience, I would sort the results according to the relevant condition -- in this case, "order by date" perhaps). A pseudocode for instance may look as follows (not tried, just a suggestion): --------------------CODE---------------------- // Assuming that this variable has the results // from a simple query, without any GROUP BY // but with an ORDER BY date $resultSet = ..; // Now loop through the results for ($i = 0; $i < count($resultSet); $i++ { // Assuming first column in results is date // and 'i' is the index for the current row if ($tempDate == $resultSet[$i][0]) { 1. Echo a couple of line breaks (

) 2. Echo the subject etc } else { 1. Echo a new paragraph (

) 2. Echo the date because this is a distinct date and a
3. Echo the subject etc. 4. $tempDate = $resultSet[$i][0]; } } --------------------/CODE---------------------- Cheers Shanx From mail at redhotsweeps.com Tue Feb 19 20:04:01 2002 From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty) Date: Tue Feb 19 20:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS help needed - focus() Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020219195900.025a9930@redhotsweeps.com> Hello all, I have been told by my boss to create a web version of our internal time sheet program. I have done a pretty good job recreating the look, but my limited knowledge of JS is hurting me. I am checking for numeric only values in the input boxes and when a non-numeric character is entered, I popup an alert box. I would ideally like to return focus back to that box. However, I can't seem to figure it out. Can someone please look at my code and see what is going on? You can see the code at http://www.redhotsweeps.com/timesheet/ Thanks Chris From r937 at interlog.com Tue Feb 19 21:03:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Feb 19 21:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help Message-ID: <01c1b9bb$36df20a0$794f149a@rudy> >This WILL work > >Note: >1). The GROUP BY clause in the first SQL query. This gets the distinct >values. >2). The second SQL query (in the while loop) picks a "distinct" value and >then loops through the entries using "for" manish, sorry, that first query will only work in mysql -- when you select all the columns in a table and then only group on one of them, you are breaking standard sql here's the relevant excerpt from the mysql docs -- MySQL has extended the use of GROUP BY. You can use columns or calculations in the SELECT expressions that don't appear in the GROUP BY part. This stands for any possible value for this group. You can use this to get better performance by avoiding sorting and grouping on unnecessary items. For example, you don't need to group on customer.name in the following query: mysql> select order.custid , customer.name , max(payments) from order , customer where order.custid = customer.custid GROUP BY order.custid; In ANSI SQL, you would have to add customer.name to the GROUP BY clause. In MySQL, the name is redundant if you don't run in ANSI mode. DON'T USE THIS FEATURE if the columns you omit from the GROUP BY part aren't unique in the group! You will get unpredictable results. note the caps in the above paragraph are actually in bold in their docs also, the second query is very inefficient never ever do a database call inside a loop -- there is always a more efficient way, or i shall eat my hat (i reserve the right to choose the hat) shanx, when you said you "would maybe prefer to err on the side of making *one* trip to the database" you were right on the money, that's no error, that's good programming incidentally, sarah's initial example would have required order by datefield descending, timefield ascending except that the example was probably quickly dashed off just to illustrate the grouping concept a lot cleaner in cold fusion, ain't it sarah? ;o) rudy From nopun at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 19 21:06:00 2002 From: nopun at bellsouth.net (Tyme) Date: Tue Feb 19 21:06:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anyone have a 'producer' job description? References: Message-ID: <002d01c1b9bb$c3a555e0$7399fea9@tyme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Orth To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Anyone have a 'producer' job description? > > Does anyone have a killer job description for a producer or project manager? > > I think I do! ; ) I have included two job descriptions here. The word > COMPANY has been inserted where a "real" company name was before. These > probably don?t meet your requirements dead on, but they do illustrate what I > believe to be a very well formed job description. > > _________________________________________________________ > > JOB TITLE: Senior Executive Web Producer > > > General Objectives > Guide and facilitate the development of COMPANY internal and external web > presences to expedite achievement of the COMPANY strategic goals. > Establishes, plans, directs and implements the user interface standards, > design guidelines, GUI prototypes, html page design and management and > development methodologies. > > > Nature and Scope of Position > ? This regular, full-time position reports directly to the Director of > Web Activities. > > ? Guides the development of high-level content, design standards, > information architecture and interface, web-client standards, web-based > database access resources, web-authoring support systems and related > procedures and documentation. > > ? Works collaboratively with COMPANY users, business units, content > developers, and workgroups to determine and meet the web communication needs > of the COMPANY. > > ? Works with the Director of Web Activities to determine budget and > resource allocations necessary to support web operations. > > > Principal Duties and Responsibilities > ? Leverage existing Web Team of one web developer, two web designers > and one web content producer, as well as members of the Communications > department, to facilitate the development of COMPANY web presences. > > ? Working with business units such as Communications, Executive Team, > the Cross-Regional Management Team, and forums for user representation, > determine the business strategy for Internal and External web sites. > > ? Based on the business strategy, determine the strategy and direction > for end-user web-content creation tools. > > ? Develop and communicate standards for web content development. Grow > the web-authoring skills of COMPANY web authors. Work with owners of web > content areas (Web Coordinators) to ensure that standards are met and that > content is accurate and up-to-date and meets the business needs of COMPANY. > > ? Ensure that web content and services are continually evaluated and > enhanced through tools such as web-usage reports to web authors, end-user > surveys, and measurable goals. > > ? Create and maintain navigational and informational presentation > standards. > > ? Participate in Information Services and COMPANY workgroups and > activities as appropriate. > > > Qualifications > > > ? Bachelor?s level education or equivalent, plus three or more years > experience in graphic and web/information design, web development and > technical project leadership. > > ? Proven ability in the creation of quality web graphic design and web > site architecture design for the web. > > ? Conversant in general with Macromedia, Adobe and Microsoft software, > including web-based database access technologies. > > ? Strong project management skills with the ability to work in a team > environment in situations in which ambiguity and multiple priorities are > likely. > > ? Excellent ability to write, speak, and use images to clearly and > persuasively communicate in technical and non-technical subjects with both > technical and non-technical audiences. > > ? Capable of integrating technical skills and strategies with business > needs analysis and strategic thinking about communication. > Proven effectiveness and ease in a multi-cultural environment. > > > ______________________________________________________ > > ROLE TITLE: Web Content Producer > > General Objectives > > The Web Content Producer is responsible for drafting, reviewing and editing > content for COMPANY web sites. This position ensures that content is > consistent, understandable, accessible and that it maintains COMPANY > standards. This position facilitates web content creation for other COMPANY > business units in the organization. This position coordinates and produces > communications regarding the activities and services of the COMPANY Web > Team. > > Nature and Scope of Position > > ? The regular 80% time, four days per week position reports directly to > the COMPANY Web Master and to the Director of Web Activities. > > ? This position will work both independently and as part of the Web > Team to produce quality web sites with relevant, consistent content. > > ? This position works collaboratively with COMPANY business units, > content developers, and workgroups to determine the business strategy for > Internal and External web sites to meet the web communication needs of the > COMPANY. > > ? This position regularly interfaces with the Communications Department > to ensure that COMPANY web sites meet COMPANY communication standards. > > Principal Duties and Responsibilities > > ? Draft, edit and maintain content for all COMPANY sites. Ensure > consistent quality across all COMPANY sites. Contribute to other content > creation efforts. Assist other groups by editing, reviewing and rewriting > content for that group?s web presence. > > ? Work collaboratively with COMPANY business units to determine > content structure, ensuring easy accessibility to a wide audience, as well > as keeping it meaningful to a specific target audience. > > ? Ensure that widespread COMPANY communications policies and practices > are maintained by verifying accuracy and timeliness of content, validating > appropriateness of content and of content presentation. Develop and > communicate standards for web content development. Work with owners of web > content areas to ensure that standards are met and that content is accurate > and up-to-date and meets the business needs of COMPANY. > > ? Interface with the COMPANY Communications department to assure web > content conforms to COMPANY strategic directions. > > ? Ensure consistent usage of key vernacular (i.e. ?Website? vs. ?Web > Site,? eMail vs. E-Mail) correct formatting and other communication > standards. > > ? Draft, review, edit and coordinate appropriate communications > regarding the activities and services of the COMPANY Web Team. Collaborates > with Web Team on content, media and distribution. > > ? Assist Web Team with design and construction of web pages on updates, > new pages and sites; including graphical design, navigational design and > page layout. > > ? Assist Web Team with handling external inquiries sent to COMPANY > Webmaster e-mail as well as with handling and responding to internal web > requests sent to Webservices e-mail list. > > ? Participate in Information Services and COMPANY workgroups and > activities as appropriate. > > ? Perform other duties as assigned. > Qualifications > ? A bachelors degree or equivalent, or three years of experience > preferably in communications, web content management or related field is > required. > > ? Strong oral and written communication skills are required. Strong > grammatical and editing skills required. Excellent ability to write, speak, > and use images to clearly and persuasively communicate in technical and > non-technical subjects with both technical and non-technical audiences > preferred. > > ? Strong analytical skills desired. Capable of integrating technical > skills and strategies with business needs analysis and strategic thinking > about communication. > > ? Experience in the creation of quality design, content and navigation > for the web is required. > > ? HTML and graphical design skills are desired. > > ? Strong initiative and self-starting approach, and ability to operate > effectively in an organizational climate of rapid growth and change is > desirable. > > ? Ability to work in a fast-paced, product-focused, team environment > involving technical and non-technical individuals is essential. > > ? Experience with an understanding of the social work practices of > Casey Family Programs is desirable. > Proven effectiveness and ease in a multi-cultural environment is essential. > Also, check http://www.salary.com/. They have descriptions, as well as salary range by area/city/zip. Tyme From persist1 at io.com Tue Feb 19 21:35:01 2002 From: persist1 at io.com (Ben Henick) Date: Tue Feb 19 21:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] document.write() in head section In-Reply-To: <002001c1b959$3c43f8c0$870487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote: > Hello Everybody, > Is there something wrong about writing document.werite() in the head > section of a web page? I have created a web page with all JavaScript in Canonically (though not in all applications) most document methods are meant to be applied to the body only. For stylesheets, scripts, and titles you can manipulate document.stylesheets, document.scripts, and document.title (the first two arrays, the third a property) respectively... in compilant useragents. That said, Netscape and IE both allow document.write to be used for the writing of tags that are structural children of HEAD and will download files accordingly. Opera does not. > head section. When I click a button, JavaScript is supposed to write > some message on the page. But sometimes it works and some time it > doesn't. When it does not work, I have to close the web page and then > open it again. What the problem is? I have inserted document.write() > into head section. Is this creating problem? I'm going to make a WAG in regards to your implementation, but... if you want to manipulate page contents after the page loads, you need to do one of the following: 1. Change the innerHTML or innerText property of the part of the document you're manipulating (keeping in mind that innerText is not part of the Mozilla DOM implementation, and neither approach is standards- compliant) 2. Remove the textNode(s) you're seeking to change, then creating and appending the new one(s) I'm intending to write an article that serves as an overview of w3c DOM properties and methods. I may publish it on my own site, I may publish it on evolt, I may publish it on ALA. Don't know yet. But it's near the front of my queue. -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!" From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com Tue Feb 19 21:43:01 2002 From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (JCanfield at magisnetworks.com) Date: Tue Feb 19 21:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question Message-ID: <9C564844426BB945B9AD8FD0106D905DA7E0@grog> We're pulling some numbers from an MS-SQL db in the format 3.1, 3.2, . . . 3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 etc. I need to sort them so that 3.2 comes before 3.12 (that is, three point two comes before three point twelve.) They're accounting thingies, rather than plain old decimals. Is there a way to parse, sort, and concatenate within SQL? Any other ideas? Thanks. joel at spinhead.com From davezero at mindspring.com Tue Feb 19 22:03:01 2002 From: davezero at mindspring.com (Dave Zero) Date: Tue Feb 19 22:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG editor Message-ID: <014d01c1b9c3$822293f0$6601a8c0@user> hey dude, this page has a bunch of free WYSIWYG editors you can download. i think the things suck myself, but if they help your users, more power to you. Dave Zero From paul at wishlist.com.au Tue Feb 19 22:11:01 2002 From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan) Date: Tue Feb 19 22:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFDBB0@coen.wishlist.com.au> JCanfield at magisnetworks.com wrote: > Is there a way to parse, sort, and concatenate within SQL? > Any other ideas? I will assume that you can't change the DB format to something like AccountNumberMajor AccountNumberMinor (or whatever) and then ORDER BY AccountNumberMajor, AccountNumberMinor In that case, you could try (apologies for wrapping here, and non-my-employer's-coding-standards-compliant typography): select AccNo, convert(int,left( convert(varchar, AccNo), patindex('%.%', convert(varchar, AccNo)) - 1) ), convert(int,right( convert(varchar, AccNo), len(convert(varchar, AccNo)) - patindex('%.%', convert(varchar, number))) ) from Accounts order by 2, 3 Which is nasty, but will work as long as every number follows the format xx.yy - everything has one and only one decimal point. Effectively, you are converting it to a string, finding the decimal point, splitting it in two and then converting those back to INTs. If you have any whole numbers in there (like '1'), it will need some corresponding tweaking - look at using the STR function or something similar to make sure there's a decimal there. Using views to do the splitting and converting will also simplify this quite a lot. Hope this helps, Paul. From mwarden at mattwarden.com Tue Feb 19 22:23:01 2002 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Tue Feb 19 22:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question In-Reply-To: <9C564844426BB945B9AD8FD0106D905DA7E0@grog> Message-ID: On Feb 19, JCanfield at magisnetworks.com had something to say about [thelist]... >We're pulling some numbers from an MS-SQL db in the format 3.1, 3.2, . . . >3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 etc. > >I need to sort them so that 3.2 comes before 3.12 (that is, three point two >comes before three point twelve.) They're accounting thingies, rather than >plain old decimals. > >Is there a way to parse, sort, and concatenate within SQL? Any other ideas? order by TRUNCATE(field,0), ((field - TRUNCATE(field,0)) *100) basically says: order by integer, then order by (subtract the integer from the number, leaving the decimal, then multiply by 100) which says: order by integer, then order by the fractional part represented as an integer. so 3, 0 (3.0) 3, 2 (3.2) 3, 12 (3.12) 4, 2 (4.2) etc. that's what you wanted, right? if you're going to have decimals with more than 2 decimal places, you'll want to increase 100 to a greater number. i'm assuming there is some system where this is like a chapter 3, section 12 kind of deal. as far as i know, this is the only way to do this without converting it to a string and parsing out the decimal portion. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mwarden at mattwarden.com Tue Feb 19 22:25:01 2002 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Tue Feb 19 22:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Feb 19, Warden, Matt had something to say about Re: [thelist] sorting... >On Feb 19, JCanfield at magisnetworks.com had something to say about [thelist]... > >>We're pulling some numbers from an MS-SQL db in the format 3.1, 3.2, . . . >>3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 etc. um, yeah, i definitely read that as "My-SQL" for some reason. but, a similar method could certainly be used for MS SQL Server. Just look for a function which will truncate the decimal place off of a number. sorry i can't be of more help with MS SQL Server. Not my strongpoint. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mwarden at mattwarden.com Tue Feb 19 22:32:00 2002 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Tue Feb 19 22:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Feb 19, Warden, Matt had something to say about Re: [thelist] sorting... >On Feb 19, JCanfield at magisnetworks.com had something to say about [thelist]... > >>We're pulling some numbers from an MS-SQL db in the format 3.1, 3.2, . . . >>3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 etc. >> >>I need to sort them so that 3.2 comes before 3.12 (that is, three point two >>comes before three point twelve.) They're accounting thingies, rather than >>plain old decimals. >> >>Is there a way to parse, sort, and concatenate within SQL? Any other ideas? > >order by TRUNCATE(field,0), ((field - TRUNCATE(field,0)) *100) > >basically says: > >order by integer, then order by (subtract the integer from the number, >leaving the decimal, then multiply by 100) > >which says: > >order by integer, then order by the fractional part represented as an >integer. dammit, that's not gonna work either, folks. originally, i had a solution up there using strings, and i think you're gonna have to use that method. this is what i had in MySQL. maybe it can help you with your MS SQL Server task: order by TRUNCATE(field,0), SUBSTRING_INDEX(field, ".", -1) the latter part basically grabs everything from the right of the decimal point. so, for 3.3, it'll grab 3. for 3.12, it'll grab 12. disclaimer: you may have to run a conversion function on your field first disclaimer x2: you may have to de-convert it back to a number in order to get it to.. um.. ORDER correctly. Spending 20 extra seconds re-thinking your solution to a problem can save yourself and others huge amounts of time: 1. realizing you've made a mistake 2. trying to find a correct solution (as if there is any other kind of solution) sorry folks, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From r937 at interlog.com Tue Feb 19 23:22:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question Message-ID: <01c1b9ce$ae99c880$794f149a@rudy> >... a similar method could certainly be used for MS SQL Server. > Just look for a function which will truncate the decimal place off > of a number. that'd be the floor() mathematical function sadly, it is a poor choice in this instance, as them aren't numbers to start with, joel said them are "accounting thingies" and therefore probably strings paul's suggestion hinges on the convert() function turning strings into numbers, which is awkward and might perform poorly, but i have no reason to think it won't actually work another method works only with strings -- split the thingie string using charindex to find the decimal point left side is substring( accno, 1, charindex('.',accno)-1 ) and that's your major sort field right side is substring( accno, charindex('.',accno)+1 , len(accno)-charindex('.',accno) ) pad the right side with, oh, let's say five zeroes to the left, then take the rightmost five-char substring right( '00000' + substring(accno,charindex('.',accno)+1 , len(accno)-charindex('.',accno)) , 5) and that's your minor sort field caution: untested -- you might have to adjust +1 or -1 ;o) > sorry i can't be of more help with MS SQL Server. Not my strongpoint. me neither, but i have a release 6 textbook that stands me in good stead also, there's BOL (books online), available as a free (~38meg) download, but it's upstairs on the kids' computer and they're asleep... rudy From pemberton_m at hotmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:46:00 2002 From: pemberton_m at hotmail.com (Michael Pemberton) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Removing scroll bars Message-ID: >From: "rudy" >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:19:13 -0500 > >make sure each web page has only one line or so of content > >;o) > >sorry, i couldn't help it In the same spirit of "couldn't help it", I have to say that limiting the amount of content is not enough to hide the scrollbars. IE likes to *display* the scrollbars even if they are not needed. There are a range of solutions depending on the browser. Most versions of NS allow for setting the document.height value to something smaller than the window height. This will override the size of the document and remove the scrollbars. Using JS to edit the body.style.scroll (can't remember exact syntax at the moment) will allow you to dynamically hide the bars. I have a method sitting somewhere at home that combines then into a single function, if anyone is interested, just give me a yell / prode. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Anthony at Baratta.com Tue Feb 19 23:49:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ssinc.dll gives 401 but asp.dll does not In-Reply-To: <9C564844426BB945B9AD8FD0106D905DA7DA@grog> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020219214721.02ccf880@baratta.com> At 05:01 PM 2/19/2002, JCanfield at magisnetworks.com wrote: >Set up a new IIS5 box, and instead of parsing HTML thru asp.dll like I >usually do on Win2K boxen I used ssinc.dll (since I really only want it to >parse for includes, not ASP code.) No matter what I did, I got an >authentication challenge when I tried to access the page via the browser. I just did this on my Win2K Pro box, it did not throw an error. Did you set it up "just like" the existing .shtm/l extensions? --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From matthew.garrett at snet.net Tue Feb 19 23:54:01 2002 From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ditching the .ldb on remote server In-Reply-To: <001601c1b99e$7b7ebf80$a41f88d8@ns2> Message-ID: > From: "Jon Hall" > From the 4.5 Release Notes: > > > The following line enables the data source named cfmysource: > > That is a *very* useful bit of code. It solved the immediate issue. Thanks for reading the manual for me :) matt g From msharma at satyam.net.in Wed Feb 20 00:17:00 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:17:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: <015001c1b9ac$3d3b6260$5ad1d6d2@manish> <032701c1b9b2$1684e550$2c08a8c0@DMF59> Message-ID: <014901c1b9d5$b57682e0$74d8d6d2@manish> Shanx, > Just as a matter of application design though, don't you think this is too > database intensive -- too many trips to the DB? Yes, you are correct. The total trips to db made are "no. of distinct entries + 1". But it does work and gets Sarah the desired results. However, I would like to know a "cleaner" solution. I was foxed with the following line in your code (or am I just losing it!) ($tempDate == $resultSet[$i][0]) What do $tempDate and $resultSet[$i][0] hold? Finally, to make the script a bit faster, I would not have the count($resultSet) in the for loop as it will be executed at each loop; would rather use a variable that holds count($resultSet) value Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From msharma at satyam.net.in Wed Feb 20 00:17:06 2002 From: msharma at satyam.net.in (Manish Sharma) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:17:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: <01c1b9bb$36df20a0$794f149a@rudy> Message-ID: <014a01c1b9d5$b670c160$74d8d6d2@manish> Rudy, > manish, sorry, that first query will only work in mysql Isn't Sarah working on MySQL? "entries" table? or was I really off target? > shanx, when you said you "would maybe prefer to err on the side of making > *one* trip to the database" you were right on the money, that's no error, > that's good programming Yes you guys are correct. Rudy your comment "never ever do a database call inside a loop" is well taken but like I mentioned, I would like to know a better solution to the problem (esp. the way Sarah wants to display the results) > a lot cleaner in cold fusion, ain't it sarah? ;o) Hail MySQL (aka don't have money to invest in Coldfusion... or MySQL hosting is cheaper ;-) Regards, Manish Sharma http://www.simplygraphix.com - Extreme Design http://www.fontmagic.com - Largest True Type fonts directory on the Internet http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com - Tutorials, tips, tricks, web page design and much more From brad at beldamar.com Wed Feb 20 00:19:00 2002 From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:19:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anyone using XMetaL 3.0 Message-ID: Is anyone using the new version of XMetaL? I have been playing with the trial version 2.1 for a while and I am curious if anyone has comments on the new features of 3.0. They don't have a trial version of 3.0 out yet. We are looking at single sourcing and we don't want to purchase a bunch of copies of the program until I hear something about it from someone other than SofQuad and their partners. If anyone has comments on 2.1 I would be interested in hearing that as well. Thanks Brad Miller brad at beldamar.com www.beldamar.com From tyme at no-pun.com Wed Feb 20 00:25:01 2002 From: tyme at no-pun.com (Tyme) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript rewrite needed ($) References: Message-ID: <005201c1b9d7$7c29b5a0$7399fea9@tyme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lindsay Evans To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] Javascript rewrite needed ($) > > > Anyone up for rewriting/optimizing a small bit of Javascript hack for me? > > I'll pay. > > I'm up for it TYME} Lindsay, sorry for the delayed reply. My discussion lists sort to their own folder, and your post got temporarily lost there. (I forgot to ask for replies to my main email address.) Was lucky enough to get an offer right away. If he cannot help, I'll let you know. Thank you. Tyme From sub at shanx.com Wed Feb 20 00:33:01 2002 From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php/mysql help References: <015001c1b9ac$3d3b6260$5ad1d6d2@manish> <032701c1b9b2$1684e550$2c08a8c0@DMF59> <014901c1b9d5$b57682e0$74d8d6d2@manish> Message-ID: <006401c1b9d8$7d737e40$2c08a8c0@DMF59> Hi >> *But it does work* and gets Sarah the desired results. Deja vu! :) >> However, I would like to know a "cleaner" solution. The code in my email would also work, with just one DB trip. Checking is done in PHP. >> I was foxed with the following line in your code (or am I just losing it!) As I perhaps mentioned in my note, it is "pseudocode" (logic only, without the syntax of any particular language) although I intentionally made it to look like PHP. Replace $tempDate with whatever the date format from the SQL is, and $resultSet is the record set (an array) returned when the SQL is executed. The subscript "i" refers to each row, and 0 signifies the first column (as my comment before that line suggested). So "$resultSet[$i][0]" refers to the date column from each row... Your idea to store count() in a variable prior to the loop is a great one! Should definitely be implemented in real code.. Cheers Shanx From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 00:39:01 2002 From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Wed Feb 20 00:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Call html page with php In-Reply-To: <3C72D27C.9533.16999C@localhost> Message-ID: <20020220063904.93409.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> > I need a php-function which calls a html-page to appear > in the same > frame like this: > if(password == ok) > { > call_page(test.htm, "oneframe"); > } Not sure if this is what you want, but have you tried looking at the include function? HTH Lach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From Joel at spinhead.com Wed Feb 20 01:13:00 2002 From: Joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Wed Feb 20 01:13:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] sorting question Message-ID: <6F81D58E8FEB1646B5BE6D6E20B6D6285458@ireland.magisnetworks.com> Thanks rude, matt, and paul. This is the kickstart I needed to figger it out. joel >>... a similar method could certainly be used for MS SQL >Server. Just >>look for a function which will truncate the decimal place off of a >>number. > >that'd be the floor() mathematical function > >sadly, it is a poor choice in this instance, as them aren't >numbers to start with, joel said them are "accounting >thingies" and therefore probably strings > >paul's suggestion hinges on the convert() function turning >strings into numbers, which is awkward and might perform >poorly, but i have no reason to think it won't actually work > >another method works only with strings -- > >split the thingie string using charindex to find the decimal point > >left side is > > substring( accno, 1, charindex('.',accno)-1 ) > >and that's your major sort field > >right side is > > substring( accno, charindex('.',accno)+1 > , len(accno)-charindex('.',accno) ) > >pad the right side with, oh, let's say five zeroes to the >left, then take the rightmost five-char substring > > right( '00000' + substring(accno,charindex('.',accno)+1 > , len(accno)-charindex('.',accno)) > , 5) > >and that's your minor sort field > >caution: untested -- you might have to adjust +1 or -1 ;o) > > >> sorry i can't be of more help with MS SQL Server. Not my strongpoint. > >me neither, but i have a release 6 textbook that stands me in >good stead > >also, there's BOL (books online), available as a free (~38meg) >download, but it's upstairs on the kids' computer and they're asleep... > >rudy > > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, >evolt ! > From Joel at spinhead.com Wed Feb 20 01:18:01 2002 From: Joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Wed Feb 20 01:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ssinc.dll gives 401 but asp.dll does not Message-ID: <6F81D58E8FEB1646B5BE6D6E20B6D628545A@ireland.magisnetworks.com> >>Set up a new IIS5 box, and instead of parsing HTML thru >asp.dll like I >>usually do on Win2K boxen I used ssinc.dll (since I really >only want it >>to parse for includes, not ASP code.) No matter what I did, I got an >>authentication challenge when I tried to access the page via the >>browser. > >I just did this on my Win2K Pro box, it did not throw an >error. Did you set it up "just like" the existing .shtm/l extensions? >--- >Anthony Baratta >President >Keyboard Jockeys > >"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." > > Just checked again . . . augh - one definite difference - I left it set for 'all verbs' where stm/shtm/l all specify GET and POST only. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm further testing is in order joel From lisa at koolfish.com Wed Feb 20 01:37:01 2002 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost) Date: Wed Feb 20 01:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Extra space around text in Netscape 6 Message-ID: <000001c1b9e1$75758220$0100a8c0@canthainet.com> >The problem is the top row in the top table. >In IE 4, 5, Opera 6.01 and Netscape 4.61, and 4.7 everything is >displaying correctly. The problem I have is with Netscape 6. > >How do I remove the space so that it behaves the same as the other >browsers? Kris' suggestion of altering the line height in the css worked a treat. It displays correctly in Netscape 6, IE 4, 5, 5.5 Opera 6.01 and Netscape 4.61 and 4.7 Code and instructions here for any other beginners on css like me stuck with this: The 1.1 is the bit that you need to play with to alter the spacing. 1. change your "aim" class in the css file to read: .aim { font: 10px/1.1 Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; color: #FFFFFF; font-style: normal } (you can put these all on one line if you like) 2. where you've got the table cell with the text inside it, get rid of the

tags and put the align information in the cell - so you get...

- Aim
"To be the first insulin dependent diabetic
pilot to fly around the world in a light aircraft and raise money for diabetes research".
- Douglas Cairns

this will sort it out. Lisa. From wolfgang at wazum.com Wed Feb 20 01:43:01 2002 From: wolfgang at wazum.com (Wolfgang Klinger) Date: Wed Feb 20 01:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Call html page with php Message-ID: > I need a php-function which calls a html-page to appear > in the same > frame like this: > if(password == ok) > { > call_page(test.htm, "oneframe"); > } hi! you can set the new location in the header: header("Location: test.htm?param1=xxx"); Wolfgang From andrew at ephox.com Wed Feb 20 02:44:00 2002 From: andrew at ephox.com (Andrew Roberts) Date: Wed Feb 20 02:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: WYSIWYG HTML Editor Message-ID: <0AC2D75550100F4DBDB025D4D05611881F86A9@BIGCOW.intraephox.ephox.com> > I have a problem about updating artikel on my site. > Here I want to provide facility for all of our user to update > his artikel and store it into MySQL Data base. > I want to provide on-line WYSIWYG HTML Editor on my Site but I > can not build it by my self. Does anyone know where I can get > this software? You can check out our software, EditLive!, at http://www.ephox.com. We also have a Java-based version in Beta at the moment. Thanks Andrew Roberts Ephox From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 03:03:01 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 03:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Call html page with php In-Reply-To: <20020219215009.GA7331@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: >> I need a php-function which calls a html-page to appear in the same >> frame like this: >> if(password == ok) >> { >> call_page(test.htm, "oneframe"); >> } >> is there another possibility than using the header(location...)- >> command? I've used this, which worked in a login-restricted environment. Regards Mark Howells From peter at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 03:34:01 2002 From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 03:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] vbscript from CD to HTML? References: Message-ID: <009501c1b9f0$b8fef210$d801000a@peter> Hi everyone, a (personal) client asked me if this is possible, here's the usecase: 1. User inserts CD with some VBScript and short videos in CDWriter 2. User goes to password protected webpage 3. Webpage checks for CD, then takes the VBscript and plays the videos on the webpage 4. User chooses titles for each videos on webpage and clicks submit 5. Email gets sent with the titles the user entered. Now: - is this doable? - what are the caveats? - what are alternatives? Thanks for any tips / links / ideas / solutions! I need to look knowledgable on this :) Peter ------- The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), and have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by replying to this email or by telephoning +44 (0)20 7471 8899. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Vardus Ltd. Tel: 020 74718899 From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 04:23:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've used this, which worked in a login-restricted environment. > > If($loginOK){ > include("theContent.php"); > }else{ > include("loginForm.php"); > } > ?> if you are just testing to see if $loginOK has been set: if($loginOK) { // do code for logged in user - ie. content } else { // do code for not logged in user - ie. login box } then a user can fake a login, by calling the page with loginOK in the querystring: http://www.........com/page.php?loginOK=yes you should really use this instead: if($loginOK == "yes") { ... and set loginOK to "yes" or to "no" depending on whether the user has logged in or not. using your method, you could unset($loginOK) if the user wasn't logged in - but the code is a lot cleaner if you explicity state whether loginOK is true or not. benji inchima.com From sergioribeiro71 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 20 04:46:01 2002 From: sergioribeiro71 at hotmail.com (sergio ribeiro) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd rom of the books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can you please help me with this matter because to be honest i can not afford to spend more money after already spended ?100 in books thanks, SERGIO A RIBEIROGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 04:50:01 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) References: Message-ID: <000701c1b9fb$f12ef1c0$0401a8c0@berlin> > then a user can fake a login, by calling the page with loginOK in the > querystring: > http://www.........com/page.php?loginOK=yes > > you should really use this instead: > > if($loginOK == "yes") { Better still: if ($HTTP_SESSION_VARS["loginOK"]=="yes") { // do your stuff } else { // ... } your example has the same flaws as the previous one. That is, someone can still send an url with: http://foobar.com/?loginOK=yes and your user only area will be accessible. Session vars cannot be faked, however, only your program can set them. Cheers Andrew From tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 04:53:01 2002 From: tiedefenderdelta6 at yahoo.com (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] js code trouble. Message-ID: <20020220105348.72795.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com> I'm currently writing an article for ala, about extending the style sheet switcher client side. As part of this, I need it so that if the user has js enabled with the right support then on submission of the form, the stylesheet is changed and form submission is cancelled. If the browser can't do it, or they have no js it goes to the server to manage things. I added the following code to the style switcher (Paul Sowden's not the more recent one), but it doesn't work at all. Can anyone point out what I'm doing wrong? var styleform = document.getElementById("switcher"); //The form has an id of switcher function setStyleByForm() { if (document.getElementById()) { var sel = document.getElementById("styles"); //The select menu. var opt = sel.options[sel.selectedIndex].value; setActiveStyleSheet(opt); return false; } else { return true; } } styleform.onsubmit = return setStyleByForm(); TIA Lach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From lauri_vain at tharapita.com Wed Feb 20 04:54:00 2002 From: lauri_vain at tharapita.com (Lauri Vain) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:54:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG HTML Editor In-Reply-To: <005e01c1b9b3$d78cd4a0$6401a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <002d01c1b9fc$eefe87c0$1431a8c0@tharapita> Hi there, > To solve this problem I want to provide on-line WYSIWYG > HTML Editor on my Site but I used to contribute a little to http://www.z-editor.com. I don't know how much it has evolved since then but it seems like a possibility and you might want to check it out -- the feedback I saw from clients was totally positive. Click the "Try with a sample page" link on the main page. Hope this helps! Yours, Lauri -- Tharapita Creations [dynamic web applications] lauri.vain at tharapita.com Mobile: +372 53 410 610 From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 04:57:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <000701c1b9fb$f12ef1c0$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: > your example has the same flaws as the previous one. That is, someone can > still send an url with: > > http://foobar.com/?loginOK=yes yes but i said that when checking the login, $loginOK is set to "no" or "yes". therefore, it doesn't matter what the user puts in the querystring, because the code sets $loginOK. your example querystring wouldn't get the user in at all, because their login would be checked, rejected, and $loginOK would be set to "no". i stand by my example. > and your user only area will be accessible. Session vars cannot be faked, > however, only your program can set them. who said $loginOK was a session variable?? benji inchima.com From peter at johansson.org Wed Feb 20 04:58:00 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Wed Feb 20 04:58:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Ben Phillips wrote: > if you are just testing to see if $loginOK has been set: > if($loginOK) { > // do code for logged in user - ie. content > } else { > // do code for not logged in user - ie. login box > } > > then a user can fake a login, by calling the page with loginOK in the > querystring: > http://www.........com/page.php?loginOK=yes > > you should really use this instead: > > if($loginOK == "yes") { > ... > and set loginOK to "yes" or to "no" depending on whether the user > has logged in or not. Thats's a good suggestion. And to further improve security for this kind of "attack" I suggest turning off the register_globals in your php-configuration. That way the user-supplied variables won't be introduced into the global namespace automatically, but instead placed in $_POST, $_GET and so on (or $HTTP_POST_VARS, $HTTP_GET_VARS, ...) if you're using an older version of PHP (<4.1.0). The $_POST, $_GET, ... variables are automatically global so they're always accessible in your functions. Regards, Peter From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 05:09:01 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) References: Message-ID: <001201c1b9fe$964635e0$0401a8c0@berlin> > > your example has the same flaws as the previous one. That is, someone can > > still send an url with: > > > > http://foobar.com/?loginOK=yes > > yes but i said that when checking the login, $loginOK is set to "no" or > "yes". But someone can still call the page with ?loginOK=yes and get in, no? Sorry that's not security. > therefore, it doesn't matter what the user puts in the querystring, > because the code sets $loginOK. Test it. > your example querystring wouldn't get the > user in at all, because their login would be checked, rejected, and $loginOK > would be set to "no". i stand by my example. Not testing for a variable within an explicitly stated scope is: 1) lazy, 2) asking for trouble. Especially when dealing with logins. > > and your user only area will be accessible. Session vars cannot be faked, > > however, only your program can set them. > > who said $loginOK was a session variable?? Ummm. No one, but it's one way (which I was simply suggesting) to maintain something resembling security. Where's the security in not checking variable scope at all? Even if your only processing POST variables it's still a good idea to test against $HTTP_POST_VARS["whatever"] over $whatever. Cheers Andrew From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 05:16:02 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:16:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] screen reading software Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Hi Joe I'd take a look at either * IBM HomePageReader * pwWebSpeak They're both in the evolt browser archive: http://browsers.evolt.org/ Cheers Martin Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org To: thelist at lists.evolt.org cc: Subject: [thelist] screen reading software Hey all Who wants to recommend screen reading software products? I'm keen to check out the accessibility of some sites and want to see what features different products have. Cheers Joe -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 05:22:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <001201c1b9fe$964635e0$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: > But someone can still call the page with ?loginOK=yes and get in, > no? Sorry > that's not security. check the process i have shown below and have stated in all of my posts on this thread. the querystring value for $loginOK is irrelevant. > Test it. i have done on about fifteen community websites i have produced in php 3, before session variables were available. process follows: // check login if (login is valid) { $loginOK = "yes" } else { $loginOK = "no" } so, the querystring value for $loginOK is irrelevant. > > your example querystring wouldn't get the > > user in at all, because their login would be checked, rejected, and > $loginOK > > would be set to "no". i stand by my example. > > Not testing for a variable within an explicitly stated scope is: > 1) lazy, 2) > asking for trouble. Especially when dealing with logins. i disagree. using your argument, you have to set every variable as a session argument, simply because a variable can be set in the query string? > > who said $loginOK was a session variable?? > > Ummm. No one, but it's one way (which I was simply suggesting) to maintain > something resembling security. Where's the security in not > checking variable > scope at all? Even if your only processing POST variables it's > still a good > idea to test against $HTTP_POST_VARS["whatever"] over $whatever. fair point. benji inchima.com From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 05:25:01 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) References: <001201c1b9fe$964635e0$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: <002801c1ba00$c7fe9080$0401a8c0@berlin> > > who said $loginOK was a session variable?? > > Ummm. No one, but it's one way (which I was simply suggesting) to maintain > something resembling security. Where's the security in not checking variable > scope at all? Sorry, answering my own post here: Ben, I might have misunderstood you, do you mean that every single page which should be limited to authorized users will require the user to enter their information again? This might be ok if there's only one sensitive page... if the site in question has thousands then the authorization system should be separate from the authentication system. Each page would need: if ($HTTP_SESSION_VARS["loginOK"]!=TRUE) { // redirect } at the top, or in a generic include, to redirect unauthorized users. And $loginOK would be registered as a session variable after authentication (you could also use cookies, I guess). If you're just talking about authorizing someone to view the one page following a login, then fine, the local scope for $loginOK would be sufficient. I must admit, it never occured to me to protect only one page / document on a site, which is why I couldn't really understand why your system was any better than the previous one. Apologies if this is the case. Cheers Andrew From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 05:50:52 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:50:52 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <002801c1ba00$c7fe9080$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: > Ben, I might have misunderstood you, do you mean that every single page > which should be limited to authorized users will require the user to enter > their information again? This might be ok if there's only one sensitive > page... if the site in question has thousands then the > authorization system > should be separate from the authentication system. Each page would need: > > if ($HTTP_SESSION_VARS["loginOK"]!=TRUE) { > // redirect > } i was actually thinking about an include, placed on every page, that handled sessions and login authenticity. as i said, i used this in php 3, with custom session handling. i think we are both arguing about the same thing here, and we are both right. > at the top, or in a generic include, to redirect unauthorized users. And > $loginOK would be registered as a session variable after > authentication (you > could also use cookies, I guess). cookies are possible, or passing the session id through link querystrings and forms (get or post) before php 4 did all this for you. either way, the login would require revalidating on each and every page, hence the $loginOK variable is required. in fact, a website i produced, badders.com, still uses this method as we started it in 2000. still haven't got round to changing it yet... > Apologies if this is > the case. no apologies necessary where a good discussion is involved. :o) regards, benji inchima.com From evolt at georgedillon.com Wed Feb 20 05:52:01 2002 From: evolt at georgedillon.com (George Dillon <> Evolt!) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Harvesting tips (reinventing the wheel) References: <20020220032746.818C83B62@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <017701c1ba04$9c26ab60$01ba0150@athlon800> I'm playing with a Perl script to analyse all my saved up evolt mail and create my own off-line tip harvest from it (just for personal use). Simple extraction of tips from messages is not too hard (once I've extracted the messages from the OE folders using DBxtract - http://chattanooga.net/~scochran/DBXtract.htm ) - the complicated bit is what to do with badly formed tips - ones which have nothing more than a tip tag... Currently I'm throwing away all tips which have no type="" but I intend to build a routine to scan the tips themselves for keywords to make a best guess at what the tip is about... Just wondered if anyone else had done the same and could save me the effort? Or if anyone would be interested in seeing the same (and vastly improving my amateurish code) when it's done. HTH George Dillon From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 06:01:01 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) References: Message-ID: <003a01c1ba05$c87b2140$0401a8c0@berlin> > i have done on about fifteen community websites i have produced in php 3, > before session variables were available. process follows: PHP 3 or PHP 4 is beside the point, cookies for session ids and authorization use have been around for more than a few years. > // check login > if (login is valid) { > $loginOK = "yes" > } else { > $loginOK = "no" > } > > so, the querystring value for $loginOK is irrelevant. Hold on a minute: do you mean that the username and password are getting bandied about somehow (GET/POST) to each page following initial authorization? And *then* processed on each page? The overhead wouldn't be too much I guess (although it's inelegant), but why keep passing the username and pass back and forth? (Assuming you were serious about not using session variables this would be a necessary consequence.) > > Not testing for a variable within an explicitly stated scope is: > > 1) lazy, 2) asking for trouble. Especially when dealing with logins. > > i disagree. using your argument, you have to set every variable as a session > argument, simply because a variable can be set in the query string? It doesn't have to be a session variable -- that's just a convenient way to store a user's logged-in status. It means the program doesn't have to do a database query on every single page within a sensitive area (assuming the user/pass info is in a db) then decide whether or not the user is valid, even though the user has logged in already. It also means you don't have to pass the user/pass from page to page via POST or GET variables. If the $loginOK variable is only for internal processing use on one page then there is no issue. I guess I was concerned at the idea this would get sent via POST/GET schemes and used for further authorization on other pages (that would be silly). What are the advantages of reauthenticating a user on each page? (Sorry it's well past midnight here, so I am likely a bit slow off the mark.) Cheers Andrew From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 06:16:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <003a01c1ba05$c87b2140$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: > Hold on a minute: do you mean that the username and password are getting > bandied about somehow (GET/POST) to each page following initial > authorization? And *then* processed on each page? The overhead wouldn't be > too much I guess (although it's inelegant), but why keep passing the > username and pass back and forth? (Assuming you were serious > about not using > session variables this would be a necessary consequence.) no, a session id is passed between pages. the session id is created when a user logs in. this is then compared to that stored in the database. if it is valid, and hasn't timed out then the login is okay. when i said session variables weren't available, i meant php 4 $HTTP_SESSION_VARS. sorry for confusion. > What are the advantages of reauthenticating a user on each page? see above comment. badders.com has a login box on every page. the user can use this to log in. the session code included on every page checks to see if a session id is passed, if not then it checks to see if a login attempt has been made, if not then it displays the login box (roughly). > (Sorry it's > well past midnight here, so I am likely a bit slow off the mark.) it's midday here, i have the advantage... ;o) benji inchima.com From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 06:16:07 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:16:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] vbscript question - can/should this use case be done? References: <003a01c1ba05$c87b2140$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: <011c01c1ba07$601c4f50$d801000a@peter> Hi everyone, a (personal) client asked me if this is possible, here's the usecase: 1. User inserts CD with some VBScript and short videos in CDWriter 2. User goes to password protected webpage 3. Webpage checks for CD, then takes the VBscript and plays the videos on the webpage 4. User chooses titles for each videos on webpage and clicks submit 5. Email gets sent with the titles the user entered. Now: - is this doable? - what are the caveats? - what are alternatives? Thanks for any tips / links / ideas / solutions! I need to look knowledgable on this :) Peter ------- The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), and have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by replying to this email or by telephoning +44 (0)20 7471 8899. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Vardus Ltd. Tel: 020 74718899 From amccoy at goodmanct.com Wed Feb 20 06:16:21 2002 From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:16:21 2002 Subject: [thelist] webhosting Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F079@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> :: Can anyone suggest a web hosting service that has PHP/Perl/Java/MySQL :: support and is not to expensive ($15 -$ 30 per month). I'll :: be using the :: site for showing and developing my own skills. http://www.hosttyme.com $9.99 per month - 100MB storage - up to 3 MySQL dbs - Apache/PHP/Perl Never had a problem with these folks. They also just went through a major systems upgrade. Excellent service! Alan From amccoy at goodmanct.com Wed Feb 20 06:26:01 2002 From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG editor (the URL??) Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F07A@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> Dave Zero wrote: :: hey dude, this page has a bunch of free WYSIWYG editors you :: can download. What's the URL for that page? Alan From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 06:29:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020220123144.GD2358@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then sergio ribeiro declared.... > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Hi > I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd rom of the books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I Why is this a surprise? >> 'trial download'? contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can you please help me with this matter because to be honest i can not afford to spend more money after already spended ?100 in books There is nothing you can do. I suggest you put the books to one side and learn to code by hand. It's by far the best solution anyway and it's *very* easy. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c5cwHpvrrTa6L5oRAgWfAJwIS1D9ruONRW6VPFlsLq8/idc1hACbBqaG JYdvWzPUkUjpdKSl54A+AF0= =QS56 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 06:42:00 2002 From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:42:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript: document.write() in head section Message-ID: <000001c1ba0c$2cd33e60$cf0587cb@pakcomp> Hello Everybody, Is there something wrong about writing document.werite() in the head section of a web page? I have created a web page with all JavaScript in head section. When I click a button, JavaScript is supposed to write some message on the page. But sometimes it works and some time it doesn't. When it does not work, I have to close the web page and then open it again. What the problem is? I have inserted document.write() into head section. Is this creating problem? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 07:02:01 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 07:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] vbscript question - can/should this use case be done? References: <003a01c1ba05$c87b2140$0401a8c0@berlin> <011c01c1ba07$601c4f50$d801000a@peter> Message-ID: <014201c1ba0d$c25b9e90$d801000a@peter> Apologies for the double post! When making wireframes, you can annotate them in Viso using layers. This way you can hide the annotations when printing them out for paper testing, and have different layers with different notes for visual designers, techies, clients. From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 07:03:01 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 07:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG editor (the URL??) References: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F07A@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> Message-ID: <014801c1ba0d$ff921730$d801000a@peter> eWebEditpro is another good one. It delivers nice valid XHTML. It even cleans up automatically stuff pasted from Word (although it doesn't clean it up enough for my taste, but you can do that server side). The latest version has only 1 prob I've come across, which is it shows only 1 linebreak for block elements like

, which is confusing. Peter From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com Wed Feb 20 07:29:01 2002 From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed Feb 20 07:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] vbscript from CD to HTML? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4B88B@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Peter, I haven't played much with 'signed scripts' - and I'd be pretty reluctant (and I think a lot of people would be pretty reluctant) to 'trust' someone else and run their signed scripts ... but that might be a place for you to look. Here's a really nice write-up on the topic from Danny Goodman (who writes wonderful stuff - and occasionally hangs here on evolt!) http://developer.netscape.com/viewsource/goodman_sscripts.html But other than that, (and that stuff's pretty "iffy" IMO), I'd say "no". [You don't really want other people's websites accessing files on the CD or hard drive sitting in your computer, do you?] [Alternatives - (a) You could put it all server-side ... but that would be 'slow' to serve the video media. (b) You could put it all on the CD with an 800 number flashing on screen saying "buy now" every 12 seconds ... but that might not be effective. (c) You could advertise the product in more traditional ways like print media.] HTH, RonL. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Van Dijck [mailto:peter at vardus.com] Subject: [thelist] vbscript from CD to HTML? Hi everyone, a (personal) client asked me if this is possible, here's the usecase: 1. User inserts CD with some VBScript and short videos in CDWriter 2. User goes to password protected webpage 3. Webpage checks for CD, then takes the VBscript and plays the videos on the webpage 4. User chooses titles for each videos on webpage and clicks submit 5. Email gets sent with the titles the user entered. From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Wed Feb 20 08:33:01 2002 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Wed Feb 20 08:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Styling Input type="File" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everybody. When using the input type="file" you get the browse button appear, but it won't style - I'm pretty sure that CSS doesn't allow you to style it in anyway, just wondering if anyone out there had a clever trick? i basically want the button to be transparent. cheers Paul Backhouse 2Cs Communications UK Ltd www.2cs.com TEL: (01473) 62 22 63 FAX: (01473) 62 25 15 The information contained in this message is confidential and may be the subject of legal, professional or other privilege. It is intended for the named addressees only and may not be disclosed to anyone without the sender's consent. If you are not the named addressee you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this message and should destroy it immediately. If you need further information please contact the originator of this message on the number above, or e-mail postmaster at 2cs.com. From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 08:46:01 2002 From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Wed Feb 20 08:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 References: <20020220115119.627A53AB9@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> Hi Sergio, I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street address. I'll try my best to help you. Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "sergio ribeiro" To: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:45:53 -0000 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd rom of the books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can you please help me with this matter because to be honest i can not afford to spend more money after already spended ?100 in books thanks, SERGIO A RIBEIROGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From richard.bennett at skynet.be Wed Feb 20 08:47:00 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Wed Feb 20 08:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Styling Input type="File" References: Message-ID: <04f601c1ba1d$8a1f4e90$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> In an IE only environment, you can hide the and call it's click event from any button, like this: function show(){ fileLoader.click(); alert(fileLoader.value) } Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Backhouse" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: [thelist] Styling Input type="File" Hi everybody. When using the input type="file" you get the browse button appear, but it won't style - I'm pretty sure that CSS doesn't allow you to style it in anyway, just wondering if anyone out there had a clever trick? i basically want the button to be transparent. cheers Paul Backhouse 2Cs Communications UK Ltd www.2cs.com TEL: (01473) 62 22 63 FAX: (01473) 62 25 15 The information contained in this message is confidential and may be the subject of legal, professional or other privilege. It is intended for the named addressees only and may not be disclosed to anyone without the sender's consent. If you are not the named addressee you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this message and should destroy it immediately. If you need further information please contact the originator of this message on the number above, or e-mail postmaster at 2cs.com. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 08:55:00 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 08:55:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > address. I'll try my best to help you. not too sure about the legality of this, asia is full of pirated software (around 90% of software is pirated). 'cheap software' sounds suspiciously like pirated software to me; i hasten to add that i don't mean to sound cynical, so forgive me if this is a genuine offer. have a read of this if it is pirated software you are talking about - in fact, have a read anyway: http://www.theinquirer.net/piracy1.htm benji inchima.com From jedimaster at macromedia.com Wed Feb 20 08:55:08 2002 From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden) Date: Wed Feb 20 08:55:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. Your talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that the eval version timed out, but, hey, that's life. ======================================================================= Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com Yahoo IM : morpheus "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Syed > Zeeshan Haider > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:45 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > > > Hi Sergio, > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > address. I'll try my best to help you. > Thank you, > Syed Zeeshan Haider. > http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sergio ribeiro" > To: > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:45:53 -0000 > Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Hi > I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started > with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i > started with > a trial downloaded version and because the program is > splendid i started > to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program > expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd > rom of the > books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I > contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can > you please > help me with this matter because to be honest i can not > afford to spend > more money after already spended ?100 in books > thanks, > > SERGIO A RIBEIROGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From mark-fletcher at btclick.com Wed Feb 20 09:13:01 2002 From: mark-fletcher at btclick.com (Mark Fletcher) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 References: <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> Message-ID: <005801c1ba20$a086e780$030000c1@vtco.com> Hi Raymond, No, you are certainly not on your own. Sheesh why don't they just ask for your personal bank account details and have done with it. ;-) Best Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Camden" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. Your > talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that the eval > version timed out, but, hey, that's life. > > ======================================================================= > Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia > > Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com > Yahoo IM : morpheus > > "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Syed > > Zeeshan Haider > > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:45 AM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > > > > > > Hi Sergio, > > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > > address. I'll try my best to help you. > > Thank you, > > Syed Zeeshan Haider. > > http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sergio ribeiro" > > To: > > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:45:53 -0000 > > Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Hi > > I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started > > with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i > > started with > > a trial downloaded version and because the program is > > splendid i started > > to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program > > expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd > > rom of the > > books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I > > contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can > > you please > > help me with this matter because to be honest i can not > > afford to spend > > more money after already spended ?100 in books > > thanks, > > > > SERGIO A RIBEIROGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > -- > > For unsubscribe and other options, including > > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 09:14:00 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:14:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Harvesting tips (reinventing the wheel) References: <20020220032746.818C83B62@relay.evolt.org> <017701c1ba04$9c26ab60$01ba0150@athlon800> Message-ID: <3C73BBF8.50702@members.evolt.org> Hey George - Dean has made the original perl tip harvester available under the GPL and its available at http://evolt.org/evolt_source_code/index.html You should be able to look at how he did things to solve the probs on your end :) .djc. George Dillon <> Evolt! wrote: > I'm playing with a Perl script to analyse all my saved up evolt mail and > create my own off-line tip harvest from it (just for personal use). > > Simple extraction of tips from messages is not too hard (once I've extracted > the messages from the OE folders using DBxtract - > http://chattanooga.net/~scochran/DBXtract.htm ) - the complicated bit is > what to do with badly formed tips - ones which have nothing more than a tip > tag... Currently I'm throwing away all tips which have no type="" but I > intend to build a routine to scan the tips themselves for keywords to make a > best guess at what the tip is about... > > Just wondered if anyone else had done the same and could save me the effort? > > Or if anyone would be interested in seeing the same (and vastly improving my > amateurish code) when it's done. > > HTH > > George Dillon > > From ftarzwell at fayec.com Wed Feb 20 09:14:08 2002 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:14:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Resolution statistics Message-ID: <3C73BCCA.4090209@fayec.com> Hi, Can somebody point me to where I can get those statistics about percentage of users on each resolution setting? Thanks, -- Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Wed Feb 20 09:15:00 2002 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:15:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] WYSIWYG editor (the URL??) In-Reply-To: <014801c1ba0d$ff921730$d801000a@peter> References: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F07A@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220091052.01ac8a60@mail.imaginuity.com> On 06:56 AM 2/20/2002, Peter Van Dijck said to me: >eWebEditpro is another good one. It delivers nice valid XHTML. It even >cleans up automatically stuff pasted from Word (although it doesn't clean it >up enough for my taste, but you can do that server side). >The latest version has only 1 prob I've come across, which is it shows only >1 linebreak for block elements like

, which is confusing. Aha. Ran into the same problem before. There is a fix for it. If you open the ektnormal.css file, they have this lovely little entry in it: p, li, div { font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt;} Kill the margin properties and you're golden. Alternatively, you can modify the config.xml file to point to your own CSS file. I still have no idea why they modify the text in this fashion. I've asked them and they never responded. Ah well. --Ben Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ If you save the world too often, it begins to expect it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ http://www.evolt.org/ From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 09:19:06 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:19:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Hi Syed I *do* hope that you're offering to mail a legitimately licensed original, bought from a reputable supplier, which just happen to be lower cost in Pakistan than they would be in other countries... It might be worth also checking that grey imports like that are permitted under MM's license - some companies do get a bit upset if you avoid their expected channels to market. (not commenting on whether or not that's A Good Thing btw). Cheers Martin With Zope, pages are normally[1] built with 2 SSI-like methods (yes, it's an OO system - each 'page' is an object) like so: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ main content ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (where standard_html_header is an included object) So, it's a normal SSI, right, so standard_html_header is just static text? Well it can be, but it's cleverer than that. If your calling object has properties (say "page_keywords", "title" etc), then you can insert those properties into the includes. So standard_html_header might start something like: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <dtml-var page_title> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The benefit of this is that you only need *one* standard header (although you can modularise this if you like, say bringing in the dtd and your standard meta tags from separate objects) for every page in your site. Stick the standard header into the root directory of your site, and every page will be able to find it (even in subdirs) because all the sub-directories are sub-objects of the root folder and inherit the standard_html_header method - the Zope app server effectively walks up the hierarchy from the current object until it finds the method in question. This also means that you can have a subdirectory-specific header by sticking a standard_html_header method in that subdirectory, and it will only apply to objects in (and below) that dir. Finally, there's a nice extension of this order of precedence, so that if you call in an object, Zope will search the object's own properties first for a property named dtd before looking in the object's directory, before looking in parent directories etc. So you can have page-specific headers, headers which apply to everything else in that directory, and general headers applying to the rest of the site... *all* of which will be able to insert object-specific values. [1] assuming you're just using basic DTML, with no additional products like CMF, PTK, ZWiki or anything Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org To: thelist at lists.evolt.org cc: Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Hi Sergio, I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street address. I'll try my best to help you. Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sergio ribeiro" To: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:45:53 -0000 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Hi I wil star by saying i am newbie in this web design matter, i started with a wrong software supplier, macromedia dreamweaver 4, i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version on the cd rom of the books, can you believe, so resuming can not use the books...and I contact macromedia but they are not very worryed about it,can you please help me with this matter because to be honest i can not afford to spend more money after already spended ?100 in books thanks, SERGIO A RIBEIRO --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From kris at midtempo.net Wed Feb 20 09:19:16 2002 From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford [midtempo]) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:19:16 2002 Subject: [thelist] Resolution statistics In-Reply-To: <3C73BCCA.4090209@fayec.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020220151906.0183fc98@mail.btinternet.com> -- >Can somebody point me to where I can get those statistics about >percentage of users on each resolution setting? http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat_trends.htm#col hth kris -- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.319 / Virus Database: 178 - Release Date: 28/01/2002 -- From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Wed Feb 20 09:26:10 2002 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:26:10 2002 Subject: Fwd: Re: [thelist] WYSIWYG editor (the URL??) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220092251.01ac88f0@mail.imaginuity.com> Actually, this one's worthy enough to be in a tip methinks... >On 06:56 AM 2/20/2002, Peter Van Dijck said to me: >>eWebEditpro is another good one. It delivers nice valid XHTML. It even >>cleans up automatically stuff pasted from Word (although it doesn't clean it >>up enough for my taste, but you can do that server side). >>The latest version has only 1 prob I've come across, which is it shows only >>1 linebreak for block elements like

, which is confusing. If you are confused as to why eWebEditPro from Ektron only gives you one line break per carraige return, but displays two, be aware that their default configuration has this little gem in their ektnormal.css file: p, li, div { font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt;} Kill the two margin properties and you're golden. Alternatively, you can modify the config.xml file to point to your own CSS file. --Ben Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ If you save the world too often, it begins to expect it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ http://www.evolt.org/ From richard.b at gritechnologies.com Wed Feb 20 09:27:00 2002 From: richard.b at gritechnologies.com (Richard Bennett) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:27:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? Message-ID: <050a01c1ba23$17acd930$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> I still have several S3Trio64V+ graphic cards lying around, but haven't been able to find any win2000 drivers for them. Can anyone confirm that they are simply not supported under win2000? (or better still, point me to the win2k drivers) Cheers, Richard. Do you also find it such a pain that Google always changes language for foreign browsers? To keep it in English, save a favorite as: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en From abbey at abbeyink.com Wed Feb 20 09:29:01 2002 From: abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> References: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220092303.00a1cc90@mail.abbeyink.com> At 09:48 AM 2/20/2002 -0500, Raymond Camden wrote: >Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. Your >talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that the eval >version timed out, but, hey, that's life. I have (had) an eval version of DW and it is an expensive tool. But, my experience using it makes it obvious that it is a very useful tool and the price definitely reflects the features. Finding a way around the price is, yeah, stealing. Now, this is probably OT and I haven't got the greatest tips, but here goes -- FoxServ's newest version 2.1 is a very painless way to get Apache/MySQL/PHP up and running on a Windows box for off-line development. For technically-challenged people like me, this latest version is a snap to install and I never had to get my hands dirty. http://foxserv.linuxmax.net/portal.php From taracleveland at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 09:42:01 2002 From: taracleveland at sympatico.ca (taracleveland at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Resolution statistics In-Reply-To: <3C73BCCA.4090209@fayec.com> Message-ID: Don't forget our own aardvark's articles available on the evolt site. 640x480 Isn't Dead Yet http://www.evolt.org/article/640_x_480_Isn_t_Dead_Just_Yet/22/275/index.html Real World Browser Size Stats (Part 1) http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_1/17/2295/in dex.html Real World Browser Size Stats (Part 2) http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_II/20/2297/i ndex.html HTH, Tara Cleveland ------ Web Designer and Consultant http://www.taracleveland.com > From: "Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)" > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:12:10 -0500 > To: Evolt > Subject: [thelist] Resolution statistics > > Hi, > > Can somebody point me to where I can get those statistics about > percentage of users on each resolution setting? > > Thanks, > -- > Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From chris.price at stl.org Wed Feb 20 09:42:12 2002 From: chris.price at stl.org (Chris Price) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:42:12 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: <03E8D9A7D763D411AE10005004E915F7631D45@ntmail.stl.org> > Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. Your > talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that the eval > version timed out, but, hey, that's life. > ======================================================================= > People have a major misconception about 'owning' software and its the same as 'owning' other media. At the end of the day, if I use or download a piece of software I have entered into an agreement whether I think so or not. It's made perfectly clear that I have the RIGHT to use a Macromedia trial for 30 days unless I pay up. If I rented a TV for 6 months and stopped the payments, the rental co. would take it back. If I could get the pick-up guy to say he'd lost the TV on the way back to the depot I might get away with keeping the TV, but it would be on my concience. I can + no-one will do anything about it = its OK -- Chris Price DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise agreed expressly in writing by a director of Send the Light Ltd, this communication is to be treated as confidential and the information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the sender immediately. WARNING. Computer viruses can be transmitted by e-mail. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Send the Light Ltd accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. Employees of Send the Light Ltd are expressly required not to make any defamatory statements and not to infringe or authorize any infringement of copyright or any other legal right by e-mail communications. Any such communication is contrary to company policy and outside the scope of the employment of the individual concerned. The company will not accept any liability in respect of such a communication, and the employee will be personally liable for any damages or other liability arising. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 09:48:01 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Did you make the mini.com site? Message-ID: Do I recall that someone from the team who built the Mini website/s at is on the list? If so, please email me privately as I have found some generic and Mac-centric bugs on the site/s. Thanks and regards Mark Howells From merlene_blacha at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 09:49:01 2002 From: merlene_blacha at sympatico.ca (Merlene Paynter Blacha) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] mentoring Message-ID: <000801c1ba26$41666e00$a87ba8c0@Notebook> Hey there, I'm wondering if anyone on the Evolt list would know of where/how to look for a mentor in the Toronto-Hamilton-St.Catherine's area. I've been playing with html off and on since '95 and have recently decided to persue this in full time as a business. I've found Evolt to be a wonderful resource and the members have been more than helpful on the occassions that I have had a question so my first thought on the topic of a mentor was Evolt of course! Any advice in this area would be really appreciated! Thanks! Merlene From gnarly at punkass.com Wed Feb 20 10:04:36 2002 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:04:36 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? References: <050a01c1ba23$17acd930$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <018101c1ba26$47978340$6700a8c0@Comp1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bennett" Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? > I still have several S3Trio64V+ graphic cards lying around, but haven't been > able to find any win2000 drivers for them. > Can anyone confirm that they are simply not supported under win2000? > (or better still, point me to the win2k drivers) You could look here: http://www.video-drivers.com/companies/906.htm Or this returned loads of promising results: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=s3+trio64+win2k+driver+dow nload HTH, Olly From elin at artopod.se Wed Feb 20 10:05:01 2002 From: elin at artopod.se (elin tjerngren. artopod) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript: document.write() in head section In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba0c$2cd33e60$cf0587cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <3C73D494.28634.C2EABD8@localhost> Hi, > Is there something wrong about writing document.werite() in the head > section of a web page? No - not if it's only inside the script-tags.... But it is wrong if you have a document.write() in a function somewhere and call it after the page has already loaded - then it can create the problems you described. I think you already got an answer earlier with tips how to change the document after it loads instead of using write()..... /Elin From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:05:07 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:05:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> References: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> Message-ID: <20020220160451.GC1727@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Raymond Camden declared.... > Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. Your > talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that the eval > version timed out, but, hey, that's life. No your not. Where's the list admin? Hey Raymond, make the eval period longer, it's a tricky tool and a little longer would surely increase sales. I can't beleive this guy bought $100 worth of books for an eval copy. I think the phrase we're looking for here is .... Duh! - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c8kjHpvrrTa6L5oRAsRVAJ4nuFDgMShH8+1uGR4QnuEXj+BMXACfesRj OKIMUBp5cLEOjaDoTKCgOns= =Irdq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jay.blanchard at thermon.com Wed Feb 20 10:07:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (jay.blanchard at thermon.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anybody else getting blank e-mail from thelist-admin? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220095911.00ac4568@pop.gvtc.com> It's happened twice in the past 24 hours, I've gotten a blank e-mail from thelist-admin, is this an error of some sort? Here is the message header; Received: from smtmb.thermon.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtmb.thermon.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 1C555M3Q; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:23:41 -0600 Received: from RELAY.EVOLT.ORG (63.237.54.245[63.237.54.245 port:3447]) by smtmb.thermon.com Mail essentials (server 2.422) with SMTP id: <48915 at smtmb.thermon.com> for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 9:22:57 AM -0600 smtpmailfrom Also, I am changing companies at the end of the month, should I a.) discontinue thelist service during the week or so I make the transition or b.) change to one of those free e-mail services during the transition? If b. which free e-mail service do ya'll recommend? Thanks! Jay Before inserting SQL queries into web pages test them extensively in the Query Analyzer tool provided with M$ SQL Server. This will help you to rapidly eliminate syntax errors, referential errors, and many other errors in your query statements. It also will allow you to save queries (with a .sql extension) as text files which can be included in your documentation. This also makes the query re-usable as you can modify, cut-n-paste, or test the query in any number of configurations. From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com Wed Feb 20 10:16:00 2002 From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] mentoring In-Reply-To: <000801c1ba26$41666e00$a87ba8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <000c01c1ba29$bc1e91b0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> > Hey there, > > I'm wondering if anyone on the Evolt list would know of > where/how to look > for a mentor in the Toronto-Hamilton-St.Catherine's area. Hi, I'm not in your area but what do you mean by 'mentor' exactly? stef From maurice at graciebarra.be Wed Feb 20 10:20:01 2002 From: maurice at graciebarra.be (maurice) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: on 20-02-2002 15:44, Syed Zeeshan Haider at zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com wrote: I can't believe this guy is using his history of somewhat naieve and unintelligent posts to get away with trading pirated software on the list. Maurice > Hi Sergio, > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > address. I'll try my best to help you. > Thank you, > Syed Zeeshan Haider. > http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:22:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? Message-ID: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps something interactive (and free of course) so that I can see how different colors look like next to each other? Many thanks.... - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c83NHpvrrTa6L5oRAj06AJ0bOetTsuFkhC87AMG/kCGmlSHtZwCcDn0J yZHdZM1hhE3LStEGOf6z5Q8= =j2fI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From merlene_blacha at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 10:24:01 2002 From: merlene_blacha at sympatico.ca (Merlene Paynter Blacha) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] mentoring In-Reply-To: <000c01c1ba29$bc1e91b0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> Message-ID: <000901c1ba2b$034cf620$a87ba8c0@Notebook> Hi there, Well basically, by a mentor, I mean someone who has "been there/done that" as far as getting their web developer/designer career off the ground and can guide/advise. I'm especially looking for someone who has started from the ground up, in that they may not have had formal education in this area but have carved out a sucessful career nonthelesss. Dictionary: v. Informal men?tored, men?tor?ing, men?tors v. intr. To serve as a trusted counselor or teacher, especially in occupational settings. Regards, Merlene -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:15 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] mentoring > Hey there, > > I'm wondering if anyone on the Evolt list would know of > where/how to look > for a mentor in the Toronto-Hamilton-St.Catherine's area. Hi, I'm not in your area but what do you mean by 'mentor' exactly? stef -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 10:25:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Zope tip amends Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Of course, we all realised that the meta tag should have been not and that the [1] footnote should have been inside the tip, not after the closing tag. Corrected version below. Cheers Martin Don't spend money on books for software which is about to time out unless you've also budgeted for extending the software's license. With Zope, pages are normally[1] built with 2 SSI-like methods (yes, it's an OO system - each 'page' is an object) like so: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ main content ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (where standard_html_header is an included object) So, it's a normal SSI, right, so standard_html_header is just static text? Well it can be, but it's cleverer than that. If your calling object has properties (say "page_keywords", "title" etc), then you can insert those properties into the includes. So standard_html_header might start something like: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <dtml-var page_title> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The benefit of this is that you only need *one* standard header (although you can modularise this if you like, say bringing in the dtd and your standard meta tags from separate objects) for every page in your site. Stick the standard header into the root directory of your site, and every page will be able to find it (even in subdirs) because all the sub-directories are sub-objects of the root folder and inherit the standard_html_header method - the Zope app server effectively walks up the hierarchy from the current object until it finds the method in question. This also means that you can have a subdirectory-specific header by sticking a standard_html_header method in that subdirectory, and it will only apply to objects in (and below) that dir. Finally, there's a nice extension of this order of precedence, so that if you call in an object, Zope will search the object's own properties first for a property named dtd before looking in the object's directory, before looking in parent directories etc. So you can have page-specific headers, headers which apply to everything else in that directory, and general headers applying to the rest of the site... *all* of which will be able to insert object-specific values. [1] assuming you're just using basic DTML, with no additional products like CMF, PTK, ZWiki or anything --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From scott at firesites.com Wed Feb 20 10:25:09 2002 From: scott at firesites.com (Scott Shou) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:25:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? References: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <004c01c1ba2b$53861220$97b18bce@autosync.net> me personally, i like this little freeware app called huey. RGB only http://www.lightman.co.uk/software/huey/ good cause it also samples colors off pixels on screen. Hex and rgb values. :) give it a look Enjoy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Wilson" To: "thelist" Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:24 AM Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps something > interactive (and free of course) so that I can see how different colors > look like next to each other? > > Many thanks.... > - -- > - ----------------------------------------------------------- > www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and > + Articles for website owners > - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE8c83NHpvrrTa6L5oRAj06AJ0bOetTsuFkhC87AMG/kCGmlSHtZwCcDn0J > yZHdZM1hhE3LStEGOf6z5Q8= > =j2fI > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From webmaster at archetype-it.com Wed Feb 20 10:26:00 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:26:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020220171538.00b31de8@mail.archetype-it.com> At 10:45 20/02/2002 +0000, you wrote: >can you please help me with this matter because to be honest i can not >afford to spend more money after already spended ?100 in books My constructive suggestion: Return the books to the shop you bought them from. Buy instead an introductory book on HTML. Then learn by hand-coding in a text editor. Notepad will do at a pinch, or there are loads of better free or shareware apps -- have a look on Tucows or Download.com for HTML editors. Far cheaper, doesn't involve stealing anything, and you will end up knowing what you are doing! -- Veronica Yuill Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From ken at kenkogler.com Wed Feb 20 10:28:03 2002 From: ken at kenkogler.com (Ken Kogler) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:28:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug Message-ID: <000001c1ba2b$9678be20$13dc000a@spaceball1> It's time once again to redesign my personal site. I'd like to move away from tables and start using DIVs positioned using CSS, but NS4.x seems to have virtually NO support for it. (I'd post a URL, except it's running on localhost right now). Anyone know offhand if NS4.x is a lost cause with DIV/CSS, or are there some tricks out there? -kenKogler From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com Wed Feb 20 10:31:00 2002 From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:31:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] document.cookies (was RE: Resolution statistics) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c1ba2b$f564ab60$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> > Real World Browser Size Stats (Part 1) > http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Par > t_1/17/2295/in > dex.html Yes, interesting. Thank you. Side Question : Aardvark, I never used JS cookies yet. How does your document.cookie script react when cookies aren't enabled? From miriam at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 10:32:00 2002 From: miriam at members.evolt.org (Miriam Frost) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? References: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <00c801c1ba2c$34441910$79cff3cd@walthers.com> > does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps something > interactive (and free of course) so that I can see how different colors > look like next to each other? http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/ This is a very handy tool - click any of the colors and a swatch pops up, you can have up to eight swatches at once. It also displays RGB and CMYK equivalents to the hex. best, Miriam -- http://www.dynagirl.com/blog.shtml Hogging the Periwinkle Crayolas Since 1971 From jedimaster at macromedia.com Wed Feb 20 10:32:08 2002 From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:32:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <20020220160451.GC1727@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <022c01c1ba2c$21a148f0$6401a8c0@vader> > * and then Raymond Camden declared.... > > Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with > this. Your > > talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry > that the eval > > version timed out, but, hey, that's life. > > No your not. Where's the list admin? > Hey Raymond, make the eval period longer, it's a tricky tool and a > little longer would surely increase sales. > Geeze, you must have a high opinion of my power at Macromedia. ;) Unfortunately, I have no idea who runs the tools area. I pretty much only know the server folks. ======================================================================= Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com Yahoo IM : morpheus "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda From dan at omnivore.ca Wed Feb 20 10:37:01 2002 From: dan at omnivore.ca (dan donaldson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <003a01c1ba05$c87b2140$0401a8c0@berlin> Message-ID: <36A616C4-261E-11D6-A1C9-0050E430F735@omnivore.ca> On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 06:57 AM, Andrew Forsberg wrote: > What are the advantages of reauthenticating a user on each page? (Sorry > it's > well past midnight here, so I am likely a bit slow off the mark.) One problem with authenticating once and storing the result in a session var is that if the admin removes access while the user is logged in, the user could continue to access the data until they log out or the session expires. This is more about storing the name/pass in sessions and confirming their status each new access than it is about passing name/pass back and forth. dan From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 10:39:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- http://www.limitless.co.uk/colour/navigate.lml Paola's an evolta btw. Cheers Martin Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? Hi all, does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps something interactive (and free of course) so that I can see how different colors look like next to each other? --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com Wed Feb 20 10:39:13 2002 From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:39:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba2b$9678be20$13dc000a@spaceball1> Message-ID: <001001c1ba2d$0e87a5b0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> > It's time once again to redesign my personal site. I'd like > to move away > from tables and start using DIVs positioned using CSS, but NS4.x seems > to have virtually NO support for it. > > (I'd post a URL, except it's running on localhost right now). > > Anyone know offhand if NS4.x is a lost cause with DIV/CSS, or > are there > some tricks out there? Ken, >From what I've seen with the most _excellent_ URLs people have been posting here for the last month or so, the choice was : no NN4 tweak. Use @import rules and encourage people to upgrade. If (when) I redo my personal site, I'll have as the first DIV something like that :

[upgrading blahblah]

and hide it for modern browsers. HTH stef From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 10:39:22 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:39:22 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba2b$9678be20$13dc000a@spaceball1> Message-ID: > Anyone know offhand if NS4.x is a lost cause with DIV/CSS Absolutely not. I wrote about this subject on this list last week and subsequently transferred the article into my own site at . The following example sites have been gleaned from the CSS Discuss list. And, of course Regards Mark Howells From websavant at sirenwire.net Wed Feb 20 10:40:05 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:40:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: Nick, Here are a few color picker options (all are free) from my favorites. If you need a few more ideas, let me know. Kimberly VisiBone Webmaster's Color Lab Www.visibone.com/colorlab/ Displays a swatch with the color codes and name, clicking on additional colors will give you a side by side comparison of up to 8 colors. ColorMix Www.colormix.com Create millions of browser safe colors by dithering 2 or 3 browser safe colors. The Color Schemer http://www.colorschemer.com/online/ Select a color and you are presented with a set of 16 coordinating colors. The Colorizer http://www.webreference.com/html/tools/colorizer/ Provides hex, decimal, and percentage values, and displays links and text for selected colors. (Similar to Photoshop) Palette Man Www.paletteman.com Has preset schemes, or set up your own, results can be emailed for easy reference. From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 10:40:13 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:40:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <20020220160451.GC1727@explodingnet.com> References: <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> Message-ID: <200202201639.g1KGdx8f005330@leo.evolt.org> > From: Nick Wilson > > * and then Raymond Camden declared.... > > Errr - I hope I'm not the only who has a MAJOR problem with this. > > Your talking about stealing from my company, ya know. I'm sorry that > > the eval version timed out, but, hey, that's life. > > No your not. Where's the list admin? [...] hey there... ok, i'm not list admin, but i'm one of the general admins.... we don't see every post that comes through, and i've been deleting this thread in my inbox because i'm not a DW user... but somehow i saw this... you can always email us off-list, too... *nobody* should use this list for warez type exchanges... please don't use this list for off-line warez exchanges, either... i don't care if you feel you deserve to steal software, this is not the forum for that... besides, many of the companies who manufacture the software you want to steal have people on this very list... you'll get busted... From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:44:00 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: <004c01c1ba2b$53861220$97b18bce@autosync.net> References: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> <004c01c1ba2b$53861220$97b18bce@autosync.net> Message-ID: <20020220164633.GB2148@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Scott Shou declared.... > me personally, i like this little freeware app called huey. RGB only > http://www.lightman.co.uk/software/huey/ > > good cause it also samples colors off pixels on screen. Hex and rgb values. > :) give it a look Sorry, should have mentioned that I'm running Linux. I guess from your mail headers that would be a Win app. Thanks anyway.. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c9LpHpvrrTa6L5oRAv1BAJ93jqyVvVspLia+6zjOqaFJHOda8QCeI/Ha IWjCp5V0CHNIm8Q5GRayqCs= =Mscn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:44:10 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:44:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: <00c801c1ba2c$34441910$79cff3cd@walthers.com> References: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> <00c801c1ba2c$34441910$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: <20020220164722.GC2148@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Miriam Frost declared.... > > does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps something > > interactive (and free of course) so that I can see how different colors > > look like next to each other? > > http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/ > > This is a very handy tool - click any of the colors and a swatch pops up, > you can have up to eight swatches at once. It also displays RGB and CMYK > equivalents to the hex. Great, sounds about what I need. I'll check it out now. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c9MaHpvrrTa6L5oRAmhrAKCoPWKiCyw3uxpmeYh02k3ai1PGkQCggv2Q 6jgy+ELA42PkmARAnxqbq0c= =kjDU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:46:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020220164910.GD2148@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com declared.... > http://www.limitless.co.uk/colour/navigate.lml Thanks I'll go take a look. > Paola's an evolta btw. er...what? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c9OGHpvrrTa6L5oRAsIpAJ9+tpvl96jj8o3DT8G65hHBj6+42QCeMFlK bogPjHguJfBLybO7nsy1f4M= =Evpi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chris at fuseware.com Wed Feb 20 10:50:00 2002 From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:50:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: <000001c1ba2e$8ab3b6a0$6401a8c0@VSCLTCOL0054> How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted after a H# level element using CSS? Chris Evans chris at fuseware.com http://www.fuseware.com From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 10:52:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The Color Schemer > http://www.colorschemer.com/online/ > Select a color and you are presented with a set of 16 coordinating colors. kimberley, i like this, brilliant for quick ideas for complementing colours - something i always seem to get a block on when in a hurry. thanks, benji inchima.com From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 10:52:11 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:52:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba2e$8ab3b6a0$6401a8c0@VSCLTCOL0054> Message-ID: > How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted after a > H# level element using CSS? h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {margin-bottom:0;padding-bottom:0} This isn't totally effective in all browsers for h1 and h2, which retain their margins in some browsers (Guess which one!). Regards Mark Howells From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 10:55:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: References: <20020220162445.GA2148@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <20020220165812.GE2148@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Kimberly Carroll declared.... > Nick, > Here are a few color picker options (all are free) from my favorites. > If you need a few more ideas, let me know. > Kimberly Excellent! Thanks, I've only checked out the visibone one so far and I'm finding it a little clumsy. Perhaps it's a Netscape thing, I'd love to know what your personal favourite is of these? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c9WkHpvrrTa6L5oRAtQOAKCaSpLkcTnZvrNwNaYjG0SDfcx2LQCeIEoC LlWvp0nuuTNL3RuCGXVTIhg= =IC2C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nonzero at well.com Wed Feb 20 10:56:01 2002 From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: <000001c1ba2e$8ab3b6a0$6401a8c0@VSCLTCOL0054> Message-ID: <003001c1ba2f$3bdd6980$3001330a@marchfirstslc.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The most xbrowser way is to not use any of the Header tags and just create CSS classes that have the same appearance. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Evans" > How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted > after a H# level element using CSS? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPHPUtakcrjXY5do7EQKFlwCgq7ZachDJdlPd2cth/Ty4nhaoVCkAnivI EocNCjslcpJJucI13Mwupn4F =wqvg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From crsaila at yahoo.ca Wed Feb 20 10:57:01 2002 From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug References: Message-ID: <3C73D5C9.6090509@yahoo.ca> Mark Howells wrote: >>Anyone know offhand if NS4.x is a lost cause with DIV/CSS [...] > Absolutely not. I wrote about this subject on this list last week and > subsequently transferred the article into my own site at > . The following example sites have been Mark beat me to the punch because I was looking for that article's link (and Mozilla crashed). A couple addition's to Mark's article would be: - try to avoid using inline styles with NN4, keep them all in the head or in a separate file - you may find appyling "border: none" to layers that aren't behaving properly will help Another Mark (Newhouse) has a NN4-friendly template that includes a footer (also from the CSS Discuss List): -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From crsaila at yahoo.ca Wed Feb 20 10:58:01 2002 From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: <000001c1ba2e$8ab3b6a0$6401a8c0@VSCLTCOL0054> Message-ID: <3C73D622.8000808@yahoo.ca> Chris Evans wrote: > How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted after a > H# level element using CSS? Try: H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6 { display: inline; } This makes all the headings behave like inline elements (such as B, I, IMG) -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From abbey at abbeyink.com Wed Feb 20 10:58:08 2002 From: abbey at abbeyink.com (Tamara Abbey) Date: Wed Feb 20 10:58:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220105643.00a31eb0@mail.abbeyink.com> At 04:38 PM 2/20/2002 +0000, martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote: >Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers > >-------------------- Start of message text -------------------- > >http://www.limitless.co.uk/colour/navigate.lml > >Paola's an evolta btw. Also, http://dir.evolt.org/ will link to lots of resources including http://dir.evolt.org/design/colors/ FWIW tamara From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 11:01:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] document.cookies (was RE: Resolution statistics) In-Reply-To: <000e01c1ba2b$f564ab60$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> References: Message-ID: <200202201700.g1KH0r8f006706@leo.evolt.org> > From: "DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR" > > > Real World Browser Size Stats (Part 1) > > http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Par > > t_1/17/2295/index.html > > Yes, interesting. Thank you. > > Side Question : Aardvark, I never used JS cookies yet. How does your > document.cookie script react when cookies aren't enabled? it doesn't... that user's info isn't tracked... i wanted this script to be unobtrusive, so users don't need to be affected by it... since i had no other method to get the screen/window info from the client to my application without a user actively submitting a form, cookies was my next step... there are ways around it... you can append the URL with the info, although that's just ugly... you can actually *ask* the user to take a survey and gather it via a form submission... or you can do what i did, and accept that you won't get *every* user, but at least you'll get a lot... always open to suggestions on how to improve it, though... From pgerenda at visteon.com Wed Feb 20 11:02:01 2002 From: pgerenda at visteon.com (Gerenday, Perry (P.)) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: <200202201702.g1KH2CZ07767@dymwsm09.mailwatch.com> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Evans [mailto:chris at fuseware.com] > How would I go about removing the line break automatically > inserted after a > H# level element using CSS? Hi Chris, I think what you're looking for would be to have text continue on the same line as the H# element? Since the H# element is a block level element we have to redefine it like this:

Let's get cozy.

OK, may I sit here? It goes without speaking that this will not work in NN4x, but well, I said it anyway. HTH Perry Gerenday www.virtually-artistic.com www.webinitiative.net From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Wed Feb 20 11:02:13 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:02:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C6046F17EF@chm0010mb01> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This one is pretty slick: http://www.mundidesign.com/webct/webct.html Josh >Hi all, >does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps >something interactive (and free of course) so that I >can see how different colors look like next to each >other? From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 11:11:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Software for Cursors and Icons In-Reply-To: <00e301c1b9a6$5424eba0$5ad1d6d2@manish> Message-ID: manish & syed, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Manish Sharma > > 1). http://cometzone.cometsystems.com/ ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< spyware. don't inflict it on yourself and *definitely* don't inflict it on your users. stay as far away from this as possible. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > 2). Impact Software: Microangelo 98 : > www.impactsoft.com/muangelo/download/muadnld.htm > (not free) ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i've used and like microangelo for making cursors and icons. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 11:12:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- *cough*Accessibility*cough* Seriously, Kevin, HTML is a structural and semantic language. Non-visual browsers and other UAs absolutely rely on the document structure to understand the content. Using properly is one of the highest priority accessibility requirements. Failure to do so will open you to significant legal liability in some juristictions. Cheers Martin Subject: Re: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags The most xbrowser way is to not use any of the Header tags and just create CSS classes that have the same appearance. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Evans" > How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted > after a H# level element using CSS? --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 11:13:00 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:13:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 References: <000f01c1ba1d$57752f00$440487cb@pakcomp> <021501c1ba1d$bb5c97b0$6401a8c0@vader> <20020220160451.GC1727@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <3C73D7CE.9040108@members.evolt.org> ta-da Nick Wilson wrote: > No your not. Where's the list admin? > I can't beleive this guy bought $100 worth of books for an eval copy. I > think the phrase we're looking for here is .... Duh! ok, i think thats a bit over the top. personal flames are almost as bad as w at r3z d00ds IMO. lets remember to be polite :) maurice wrote: > I can't believe this guy is using his history of somewhat naieve and > unintelligent posts to get away with trading pirated software on the > list. to recap, although his email did suggest it, jumping to conclusions and speculating that Syed is pirating software doesn't help anything. i'm not taking a side on this particular event - although i'll point out as adrian did this is *NOT* the place for that kind of shit - but let's all remember to consider peoples feelings, lack of poor english, and the whole story before berrating them or calling them pirates.:) Aaargh mateys! speculation is off-topic. Did you know thelist has a NNTP gateway? It can come in handy when you're on the road, or away from your primary computer. Chris Evans graciously provides the service from his fuseware.com site, and the info (along with some other good lists) can be found at http://www.fuseware.com/support/ Or, point your Usenet client at news://fuseware.com/evolt .djc. From adam at hallinteractive.com Wed Feb 20 11:19:01 2002 From: adam at hallinteractive.com (Adam) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hey everybody. I am NOT a javascript master, more like someone who can massage pre-written code. if you were to look at the source code here http://identfi.com/pleasure/photobody.shtml -warning old content- You will notice that I have ten billion subwindows being defined. What I'm looking for is a onetime .js reference in the head and an attribute definition in the . example function subWin1(){ window.open(.... thiswindow, thiswidth, this height, border... etc..) THEN in the call that way I could define different sized popups not in the head but in the function call. dig me? There just has to be a way to make what I'm attempting easier (and lighter-kb), instead of just forcing all images/popups to the same size. am I crazy? is this possible? Also Is there a way to validate javascript being used as per ECMA specs? And if no... why not? thanks for any help! ----- adam at hallinteractive.com http://www.hallinteractive.com From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 11:21:00 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: Message-ID: <022b01c1ba31$efa0c820$d801000a@peter> > *cough*Accessibility*cough* > > Seriously, Kevin, HTML is a structural and semantic language. Non-visual > browsers and other UAs absolutely rely on the document structure to > understand the content. Using properly is one of the highest priority > accessibility requirements. Hey Martin, how does making h1 *look* different with a stylesheet affect accessibility in any way?? Surely you can still use these tags properly and make them *look* more or less any way you like, as long as it makes visual sense? Please let me know, I really want to know the argument. Peter From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Wed Feb 20 11:22:00 2002 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C6046F17EF@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: >>does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps >something >interactive (and free of course) so that I >can see how >different colors >look like next to each >other? This is my favourite: http://www.paletteman.com/ Have fun...... From ken at kenkogler.com Wed Feb 20 11:23:00 2002 From: ken at kenkogler.com (Ken Kogler) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:23:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba2b$9678be20$13dc000a@spaceball1> Message-ID: <000101c1ba33$2d9e1dc0$13dc000a@spaceball1> eVolt rocks. Nowhere else can I ask a question, get some coffee, and have an answer waiting when I get back. Thanks for the help, folks! -kenKogler From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 11:24:00 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Styling Input type="File" In-Reply-To: <04f601c1ba1d$8a1f4e90$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: richard, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Richard Bennett > > In an IE only environment, you can hide the > and call it's click event from any button, like this: ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< here we go again. got a version of this somewhere that actually works (ie, the form will upload a chosen file)? i ask this because we had some discussion over this "technique" here on thelist recently about how it seemed to work until you actually tried to use the form. start with the thread here: http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020114/thread.html#65651 enjoy, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 11:26:01 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C746@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Guess I have some reading to do, but I'll ask you folks first. One of our internal departments has a website, designed and now hosted by a local firm, which was supposed to be easy for a non-HTML expert to go in and make changes to using Front Page. The gal in charge of updating the online newsletter portion of this site is having trouble making each month's articles fit into the nested table layout. One of the problems I pointed out to the designers was the fact that their code is not terribly tidy and therefore hard to wade through when making changes. (SHE works on Front Page's "Normal" view, but when it screws up, she calls me in to fix it and *I* work in HTML view.) The firm's project manager pointed to a reference in the printed code (36 pages for a single on-screen page!) that says something like, "

" etc etc - and said that these references to "MSO" were put into the code when we would try to copy and paste text from an MS Word document into Front Page. This sounded logical to me, but I'd never heard that Front Page would try to maintain Word's formatting. Is that true? (If so, then that makes the site even MORE unfriendly for a non-HTML person to update, because that person is then going to have to take newsletter articles OUT of Word and INTO something else before she can copy and paste them - extra steps, it seems to me.) We've just been really frustrated with the firm's interpretation of "simple to update," and we're all now looking for ways to simplify what should have been simple to start with. Thanks for any light you can shed on "MSO-Normal" and all that junk. Janet From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 11:26:08 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:26:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] mentoring References: <000801c1ba26$41666e00$a87ba8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <3C73DAE1.60101@members.evolt.org> Hi Merlene - There are a number of evolt folks in the Toronto area you might be able to talk to. Michele Foster is the first that pops into my head. She's an HTML/CSS/Design ace, and a long time contributor to evolt. Its too bad that you just missed the get-together the evolt folks from Toronto had last week! Rudy Limeback, tara Cleveland, and Frank Marion are a couple other names that pop up. I'm not sure what all these people have on their plates or anything, or if they're interested, but it's a place to start :) hth .djc. Merlene Paynter Blacha wrote: > Hey there, > > I'm wondering if anyone on the Evolt list would know of where/how to look > for a mentor in the Toronto-Hamilton-St.Catherine's area. > > I've been playing with html off and on since '95 and have recently decided > to persue this in full time as a business. I've found Evolt to be a > wonderful resource and the members have been more than helpful on the > occassions that I have had a question so my first thought on the topic of a > mentor was Evolt of course! From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 11:29:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags In-Reply-To: <022b01c1ba31$efa0c820$d801000a@peter> Message-ID: peter, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Peter Van Dijck > > > *cough*Accessibility*cough* > > how does making h1 *look* different with a stylesheet > affect accessibility in any way?? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< martin was addressing a suggestion from kevin to not use tags, but to create alternate styled elements that appeared the same without the portions of the display that are undesirable. "The most xbrowser way is to not use any of the Header tags and just create CSS classes that have the same appearance." thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From eike.p at t-online.de Wed Feb 20 11:31:01 2002 From: eike.p at t-online.de (Eike Pierstorff) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:31:01 2002 Subject: AW: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <20020220160451.GC1727@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: > Hey Raymond, make the eval period longer, it's a tricky tool and a > little longer would surely increase sales. > I think the idea with an short eval period is to prevent people from doing actual work with a eval copy. I would rather have software vendors (retailers? sorry, I don't know the right word) to change their marketing and make it perfectly clear that Dreamweaver is quite difficult to use and that spending money is no substitute for learning HTML and stuff (as a teacher, I'm currently struggling with some students who want to start their own web design companies because they know how to point and click - they don't want to be bothered by funny words in ). This would be no help against pirated software, of course, but it would spare some people a severe disappointment. -- eike From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org Wed Feb 20 11:32:01 2002 From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: Janet, > The firm's project manager pointed to a reference in the > printed code (36 pages for a single on-screen page!) that > says something like, "

style="text-align:justify;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-aut > ospace:none">" etc etc - and said that these references to > "MSO" were put into the code when we would try to copy and > paste text from an MS Word document into Front Page. This is exactly what happens when you try to paste directly from a Word document into Frontpage. My solution is to save the Word document as a .txt file and then copy and paste. Of course, you then have to rebuild any tables, etc. Becky From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 11:32:09 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:32:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C746@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: > references to "MSO" were put into the code when we would try to copy and paste > text from an MS Word document into Front Page. > > This sounded logical to me, but I'd never heard that Front Page would try to > maintain Word's formatting. Is that true? I have a feeling that the MSO stuff is generated by Word when you choose to "Save as HTML". Tell your user that you'll burn their house down if they use this option in Word again, as it creates (buggy) HTML code that is (approximately) 2000% bigger than it needs to be. Regards Mark Howells From nonzero at well.com Wed Feb 20 11:33:01 2002 From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: <022b01c1ba31$efa0c820$d801000a@peter> Message-ID: <004501c1ba34$5534bd70$3001330a@marchfirstslc.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Actually, my recomendation was not to use H tags at all but to create CSS classes that accurately reproduce the appearce of Header tags. This most certainly not very Accessibility-friendly as it breaks the natural labeling provided by the Header tag. Most accessibility aides and rely upon such clues in the code for accurate presentation. Also, any script that processes the page might benefit from such labeling. It really all really turns on whether the Acessibility is a requirement for the site. Before we get too far afield here, perhaps this should be ported to another topic.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Van Dijck" > how does making h1 *look* different with a stylesheet affect > accessibility in any way?? Surely you can still use these tags > properly and make them *look* more or less any way you like, as > long as it makes visual sense? Please let me know, I really want to > know the argument. Peter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPHPdQ6kcrjXY5do7EQKwJQCffmVVkv92bKkBVEblCGziZhhU4R0AoN9z Q6LFQwasYkpD2JHMCO7iKhct =pe1t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 11:38:01 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE143795@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>Tell your user that you'll burn their house down if they use this option in Word again,<<< LOL thanks, Mark... I don't think she's using that option - I actually lay the newsletter out for the print version in Pagemaker, but the original articles come to her from her contributors as Word documents. That's where the Word stuff is coming from. From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 11:40:01 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:40:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE143796@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>My solution is to save the Word document as a .txt file and then copy and paste.<<< Thank you, Becky... now another question - can I safely REMOVE this stuff as long as I pay attention to what is actually Word-generated code and what is the actual HTML for the document? From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 11:42:01 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE143795@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: >>>> Tell your user that you'll burn their house down if they use > this option in Word again,<<< > > LOL thanks, Mark... I don't think she's using that option - I actually lay the > newsletter out for the print version in Pagemaker, but the original articles > come to her from her contributors as Word documents. That's where the Word > stuff is coming from. Then copy and paste, or save the Word document in MS-DOS text format first. Regards Mark Howells From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 11:43:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Peter What I thought Kevin was suggesting was to *not* use but to use normal text styled to *look* like headings (large, bold etc), which would give you more control over linebreaks and spacing because some UAs don't apply the full range of CSS capabilities to . This would cause significant accessibility issues. My recommendation would absolutely be to use but to style it with CSS to look the way you want, as you suggest. (of course, if headers now aren't distinguished from normal text, this might cause usability issues, but that's another story) Cheers Martin Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org To: thelist at lists.evolt.org cc: Subject: Re: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags > *cough*Accessibility*cough* > > Seriously, Kevin, HTML is a structural and semantic language. Non-visual > browsers and other UAs absolutely rely on the document structure to > understand the content. Using properly is one of the highest priority > accessibility requirements. Hey Martin, how does making h1 *look* different with a stylesheet affect accessibility in any way?? Surely you can still use these tags properly and make them *look* more or less any way you like, as long as it makes visual sense? Please let me know, I really want to know the argument. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com Wed Feb 20 11:45:00 2002 From: vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com (Vic Wooten) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:45:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? References: <050a01c1ba23$17acd930$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <002c01c1ba36$8b432bc0$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> Richard, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bennett" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? > I still have several S3Trio64V+ graphic cards lying around, but haven't been > able to find any win2000 drivers for them. > Can anyone confirm that they are simply not supported under win2000? > (or better still, point me to the win2k drivers) I see drivers for NT at driverguide.com. They may or may not work for Win2k...I don't know. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try though. Login: drivers, all Good luck! Vic > Cheers, > Richard. From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org Wed Feb 20 11:46:00 2002 From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: > I have a feeling that the MSO stuff is generated by Word > when you choose to > "Save as HTML". No - this happens when you copy and paste straight from a word document. You do not need to "save as html" to create this kind of mess. The idea that you can build a site and then let unskilled people make updates using Frontpage rarely works out well, in my experience. Janet would do better to look into one of those html editors people were referencing a few threads back. From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 11:46:07 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:46:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? >Guess I have some reading to do, but I'll ask you folks first. One of our internal departments has a website, designed and now hosted by a local firm, which >was supposed to be easy for a non-HTML expert to go in and make changes to using Front Page. hahahahaha (sorry) This will work as long as the page is reasonably simple, and most of it is uneditable (includes are good for this). >The gal in charge of updating the online newsletter portion of this site is having trouble making each month's articles fit into the nested table layout. Ah, there's your problem - complex nesting will not be nice. >One of the problems I pointed out to the designers was the fact that their code is not terribly tidy FrontPage historically would 'improve' your code... nice to have a tool which thinks it knows better than you do. >The firm's project manager pointed to a reference in the printed code (36 pages for a single on-screen page!) that says something like, "

class ="MsoNormal" style ="text-align:justify;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none">" etc etc - and said that these references to "MSO" were put into >the code when we would try to copy and paste text from an MS Word document into Front Page. Yup, that's a copy and paste from Word2k artefact (copy from Word97 was pretty good). You get the same if you copy from Word and paste into DW too. >This sounded logical to me, but I'd never heard that Front Page would try to maintain Word's formatting. Is that true? Yes, it does very much so. And if you don't care about the resulting HTML, just how well it reflects the Word formatting, you'll be fine. Of course, if your HTML isn't a direct mimic of the Word doc (ie it has layout, navigation and so on), you'll hit problems. [Don't get me started on 'smart' quotes, copyright and tm marks btw... they're a major hassle, even if you're using a CMS. If you copy from Word and paste into an IE form, IE will try to maintain the format, which will screw up in most CMSs because it's expecting ASCII] >(If so, then that makes the site even MORE unfriendly for a non-HTML person to update, because that person is then going to have to take newsletter articles >OUT of Word and INTO something else before she can copy and paste them - extra steps, it seems to me.) Or better, don't use Word as your writing tool, do it straight into something which understands HTML properly. DW or HomeSite are both good for that. >We've just been really frustrated with the firm's interpretation of "simple to update," and we're all now looking for ways to simplify what should have been >simple to start with. Thanks for any light you can shed on "MSO-Normal" and all that junk. Looks like you're in the market for a CMS which separates content from presentation... but even most of those have problems if you want to do microformatting (lists, 'real' tables (presenting tabular data), links, , bold, italics without knowing any HTML). Generally, I teach content managers some simple (non-layout) HTML and give them a cheatsheet, which mostly works. Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 11:47:02 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:47:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Hi Mark Unfortunately, Word has this as part of its internal formatting, and it carries over if you copy/paste into a visual editor. Cheers Martin To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? > references to "MSO" were put into the code when we would try to copy and paste > text from an MS Word document into Front Page. > > This sounded logical to me, but I'd never heard that Front Page would try to > maintain Word's formatting. Is that true? I have a feeling that the MSO stuff is generated by Word when you choose to "Save as HTML". Tell your user that you'll burn their house down if they use this option in Word again, as it creates (buggy) HTML code that is (approximately) 2000% bigger than it needs to be. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org Wed Feb 20 11:47:10 2002 From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:47:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: > Thank you, Becky... now another question - can I safely > REMOVE this stuff as long as I pay attention to what is > actually Word-generated code and what is the actual HTML for > the document? Yes you can safely remove it, but it becomes a major pain. I mean, you are looking at lines and lines of that kind of code, right? Could you possible teach the staff member a wee bit of html? Then you could have him or her enter each article into a database with appropriate mark up, something along those lines? Or could you redo the site using one of those nifty html editors people were referencing a few threads back? From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 11:49:01 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: Message-ID: <028b01c1ba35$d84a8540$d801000a@peter> > What I thought Kevin was suggesting was to *not* use but > to use normal text styled to *look* like headings Eh, looks like you were right. Well, then I completely agree ofcourse. Peter From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Wed Feb 20 11:53:01 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? References: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE143796@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <02b301c1ba36$68516690$d801000a@peter> > Thank you, Becky... now another question - can I safely REMOVE this stuff as long as I pay attention to what is actually Word-generated code and what is the actual HTML for the document? Yes, but it will probably be faster to save as .txt and reformat the code. Really. Another option is to use one of the available tools that clean up Word HTML. (Dreamweaver does it, if you have that laying around, other tools exist as well. Not all work great.) Sounds like you need a chat with them to explain them the issues of formatting in Word. Peter From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 11:57:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:57:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- 'Rarely' is the right word. It *can* be done, provided: 1) The pages are to a strict template that users understand 2) The template is very simple (header brought in by an include, navigation (include) and content area - the content area's the only one users can touch), and the presentation layer is controlled by a stylesheet which users can't edit 3) You provide training for the users (a day's worth could do it) 4) You provide a strict style-guide for the users 5) You provide support for the users (telephone help mostly, but a lot of documentation too, plus encouraging users to help each other) 6) You monitor what people are doing regularly and strictly enforce it (in a supportive way, but you're still after compliance at the end of the day) 7) You make very clear that you are not responsible for their end result, and are simply there to help them do it for themselves (essential CYA) - get them to take pride in their output. This assumes you care about the visual result btw - if empowering people to just get their content out there is more important, you may choose a different approach. Cheers Martin (who used to run a very large, devolved intranet with several hundred smart but non-technical users editing their own departmental sites using FP98) Subject: RE: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? The idea that you can build a site and then let unskilled people make updates using Frontpage rarely works out well, in my experience. Janet would do better to look into one of those html editors people were referencing a few threads back. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From mdiamond at mum.edu Wed Feb 20 11:58:00 2002 From: mdiamond at mum.edu (mary diamond) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:58:00 2002 Subject: Subject: Re: [thelist] evolt membership In-Reply-To: <20020220033000.B29733B63@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220112136.00a65d70@mail.mum.edu> Fragmenting the list would be great IF we subscribers could each select our desired topic areas. I dont know how you all screen the enormous tangle of information that is available on a daily basis. I would love to be able to get a more targeted version of thelist. Eg, tips and topics could be declared by topic area (JS, design, CSS, cgi, CF, PHP, HTML, forms, etc,etc, including more general ones, or even an offTopic one), and each member is allowed to go to a form page with checkboxes for the different topic areas, select which ones interest them, and receive a targeted version of the list. A dynamically generated list. Probably take a good a bit of work to send it out sorted like that. But it would be so sweet. ~mdiamond >Daniel J. Cody wrote: >It's been kicked around once or twice in the past, but the fragmentation >is an issue like you say :) > >That and people getting mad when something that should go to the backend >list gets sent to the frontend list. And people like to learn about such >a wide variety of stuff(I, a backend guy, pick up bits here and there >from watching the frontend discussions, and vice versa for others i'm sure) > >:) > >.djc. > >Joshua Olson wrote: > > Anybody ever thought about breaking the list into two separate lists? > > > > You know, like "Design, Browsers, and other Front End Issue" and "Server, > > Applications, and other Back End Issues"? I'd love to see a CF, ASP, PHP, > > etc, break-down, but that seems really fragmented. Maybe my whole idea is > > cruddy... so ignore me if it is. > > > > -joshua > > > > > > From webmaster at archetype-it.com Wed Feb 20 12:02:17 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:02:17 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: References: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE143795@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020220185946.00b34688@mail.archetype-it.com> At 18:42 20/02/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Then copy and paste, or save the Word document in MS-DOS text format first. ... or just copy in Word, then use "Paste Special", *not* straight Paste when in Front Page. This allows you to paste the text without all the Word garbage. -- Veronica Yuill Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Wed Feb 20 12:05:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Usefulness of structural markup (was Remove break after H# tags) Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Kevin There can't be *too* many situations where accessibility isn't a requirement - especially for sites which are content or functionality based (yeah, online games may not have accessibility as a requirement, neither might some sites which the content *relies* on visual (or another sense) acuity, but you'd need to argue them on a case-by-case basis). Structural/semantic markup doesn't just help your accessibility btw, it will also help your SE placement, and it will ensure that you're *thinking* in terms of structure when you're putting your content together, which will result in better comprehension of what you're producing. Cheers Martin Subject: Re: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Actually, my recomendation was not to use H tags at all but to create CSS classes that accurately reproduce the appearce of Header tags. This most certainly not very Accessibility-friendly as it breaks the natural labeling provided by the Header tag. Most accessibility aides and rely upon such clues in the code for accurate presentation. Also, any script that processes the page might benefit from such labeling. It really all really turns on whether the Acessibility is a requirement for the site. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From mark at mountain.ch Wed Feb 20 12:09:01 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020220185946.00b34688@mail.archetype-it.com> Message-ID: > copy in Word, then use "Paste Special" Ahh! I've been away from Excel for too long - this little feature is very handy! Regards Mark Howells From michael at tdh-marketing.com Wed Feb 20 12:20:01 2002 From: michael at tdh-marketing.com (Michael Goddard) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags References: <022b01c1ba31$efa0c820$d801000a@peter> Message-ID: <006401c1ba44$729cb6a0$4b01a8c0@michael> Using stylesheets on H# tags only affects the design and not the functionality of the tag,s property within the document structure. So if using a non-visual browser the H# tag will keep it's functional property but within visual browsers the H# will keep it's functional property with the document structure as well as be styled based on the stylesheets specifications. HTH, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Van Dijck To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags > > *cough*Accessibility*cough* > > > > Seriously, Kevin, HTML is a structural and semantic language. Non-visual > > browsers and other UAs absolutely rely on the document structure to > > understand the content. Using properly is one of the highest priority > > accessibility requirements. > > Hey Martin, > how does making h1 *look* different with a stylesheet affect accessibility > in any way?? Surely you can still use these tags properly and make them > *look* more or less any way you like, as long as it makes visual sense? > Please let me know, I really want to know the argument. > Peter > > > From websavant at sirenwire.net Wed Feb 20 12:22:02 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:22:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? Message-ID: > I'd love to know what your personal favourite is of these? The consultant's answer: it depends. :) For ideas: the color schemer. For side by side: visibone. For view of color blends: paletteman. For matching impossible client colors: colormixer. From taracleveland at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 12:25:00 2002 From: taracleveland at sympatico.ca (taracleveland at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a client that was told by someone else to use Front Page to update a site that I created for her last year. Unfortunately, it was not created with Front Page in mind at all. I'm having a meeting with her to discuss the updating and changes that she wants. She wants to use Front Page (she's the only one that'll be doing the updates), but it seems that the only reason she wants to use it is because she bought it and spent $$ on it. I think it'll cost more for her to pay me to convert the site into a Front Page usable site than it did for the software. I know there are drawbacks and advantages to Front Page, but as I've not used it for awhile, I'm not sure what it is like now. I found FP98 torturous to use, I'm not sure how much it has improved (or not). Her budget is very small - so we can't buy fancy expensive content management solutions. So what are your experiences with Front Page? What advice can you give me that I can use to try and convince her to use a better solution? Thanks, Tara Cleveland -- Tara Cleveland Web Design and Consulting http://www.taracleveland.com From richard.bennett at skynet.be Wed Feb 20 12:31:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Styling Input type="File" References: Message-ID: <05e601c1ba3c$c280f580$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi, <<----- Original Message ----- < < to load the saved SVG file into an IFrame. This was an HTA that was run on the client only, so no post to the server is needed. I'm surprised posting doesn't work, as the input's value is set to the file-name after selecting - good to know for the future though. The code I used to get the input's value was: function showSVG(){ fileLoader.click(); window.frames['oSVGLoader'].location.href=fileLoader.value } Cheers, Richard. From lists at vicksburgcollective.com Wed Feb 20 12:32:01 2002 From: lists at vicksburgcollective.com (my2cents) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] coding specifically for Australian market In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020214173954.00b41b58@pop3.bip.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220102035.03036c98@pop3.vicksburgcollective.com> hey folks, I'm working on a Web site specifically for the Australian market. (Medical product currently only licensed for Aussie market). I was hoping someone could give me a quick download on things to keep in mind: For example, I think I heard somewhere that a bigger % of Australian users use Netscape than do so globally. (It's about 12% global, but I thought it was closer to 17% down under.) Another example (that doesn't specifically apply to Au): When coding for Asian markets, it's important to fully use CSS, because font tags aren't supported by Asian (double-byte) browsers. I'm sure there can't be too many differences, but since I'm serving a known, specific geographic audience, I'd like to do whatever I can to make it as good and appropriate as possible. TIA, regards, nate From jedimaster at macromedia.com Wed Feb 20 12:37:01 2002 From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023c01c1ba3d$76d2c360$6401a8c0@vader> FYI, let me say that I speak now as Raymond, not Raymond at Macromedia. I just remember that for ColdFusion, you were allowed to call us and ask for an extension. So you MAY be able to do that for Dreamweaver as well. Again - I'm not promising anything - like I said, I just remembered. ======================================================================= Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia Email : jedimaster at macromedia.com Yahoo IM : morpheus "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Eike Pierstorff > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:34 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: AW: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 > > > > Hey Raymond, make the eval period longer, it's a tricky tool and a > > little longer would surely increase sales. > > > > I think the idea with an short eval period is to prevent people from > doing actual work with a eval copy. I would rather have > software vendors > (retailers? sorry, I don't know the right word) to change their > marketing and make it perfectly clear that Dreamweaver is quite > difficult to use and that spending money is no substitute for learning > HTML and stuff (as a teacher, I'm currently struggling with some > students who want to start their own web design companies because they > know how to point and click - they don't want to be bothered by funny > words in ). This would be no help against pirated > software, of > course, but it would spare some people a severe disappointment. > From websavant at sirenwire.net Wed Feb 20 12:40:00 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tara, Does frontpage suck? You bet! I have worked with many clients in the same boat and FP is simply the least friendly WYSIWIG app I've used. In the end the training and support time costs more than the software savings. If the client needs to do their own updates and maintenance, Dreamweaver is the way to go, especially if you rely on nested tables for layout. I can get a client up and running with DW in about an hour, with little to no follow-up support, as opposed to FP which is a constant struggle. Kimberly From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 12:40:11 2002 From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:40:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C746@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <20020220184038.49679.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Janet: As indicated by another evolter, your solution lies in a modular architecture. The site structure, navigation, and constants need to be wrapped up into includes, database calls, or HIGHLY segregated and commented sections of the HTML. Since you mention FrontPage and MS Word, I'm going to go out on a limb and throw some ideas at you that are Microsoft-centric... At the low end of complexity (well, that depends on your perspective, really) would be HTML pages that are nicely commented and segregated, so that a user could open the pages in a visual editor and clearly see what's theirs to play with and what's not.[1] In the middle range I could forsee a simple (read: inexpensive) system that allows your users to edit the existing content via the web such as... http://www.active-publisher.com http://www.yusasp.com/prj04.asp http://www.opencms.org/opencms/opencms/index.html http://www.fogcreek.com/ http://www.zope.org/ ...each page would probably need to be predefined to properly call includes and nav, as these aren't robust from a CMS standpoint, but affordable and easy for the end user to edit content within. At the high end, you could go with a site that's fully dynamic, including the rendering of your navigation based on the addition and organization of pages. The admins could have an interface to design a page template, the users could have a place to build a new page based on those aforementioned templates, and a place to organize the architecture so that the nav is built correctly. A bit expensive to implement but pretty much self-maintaining and easiest for the end user. Moreover, with newsletter articles, you're -- by definition -- describing a publishing environment. The site should have been built from the beginning with dynamic, flexible content snippets in mind, and the size (within reason) should be irrelevant to how the pages are rendered. The design should accomodate either incredibly flexible sizes of content, or article summaries with jump pages. [1] But all this aside, it seems that your biggest problem is the tool being used. Word creates the most bloated and funky code I've ever seen. FP is equally squirrely. GoLive isn't too bad, and the latest version plays nicely with server-side scripting technologies, such as ASP, JSP and CF, and also allows document versioning and collaboration. Hope my $.02 helps. Would love to continue this thread. /rg --- Janet Green wrote: ... One of our internal departments has a website, > designed and now hosted by a local firm, which was > supposed to be easy for a non-HTML expert to go in and > make changes to using Front Page. The gal in charge of > updating the online newsletter portion of this site is > having trouble making each month's articles fit into the > nested table layout. One of the problems I pointed out to > the designers was the fact that their code is not > terribly tidy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com From dan at danromanchik.com Wed Feb 20 12:43:04 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:43:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? References: Message-ID: <024701c1ba3e$87dfe2e0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> I think it depends on how large the site is and the extent of the modifications that the client is going to make. If the updates are going to be relatively few, and the site isn't that extensive, then using the later versions of FrontPage won't suck that badly. Is this site something that would be amenable to a database-driven solution? If so, that might make things easier for both of you. I just recently completed work on a site that provides information on 50+ masters degree programs. The kicker was that when information about a program was updated, often four or five different pages would have to be modified. Along with the designer, I developed a database that contained the program information and scripts for each web page that dynamically pulled the latest information out of the database and displayed it. Included was several web pages that the administrators are going to use to maintain the data in the database. The nice thing about this approach is that the designer maintains control over the look of the pages. The client can't muck it up--as they could if they used FrontPage--but they can modify the content as necessary. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Romanchik - FreeAgent Writer, Editor, and Web Developer dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? > Hi all, > > I have a client that was told by someone else to use Front Page to update a > site that I created for her last year. Unfortunately, it was not created > with Front Page in mind at all. > > I'm having a meeting with her to discuss the updating and changes that she > wants. She wants to use Front Page (she's the only one that'll be doing the > updates), but it seems that the only reason she wants to use it is because > she bought it and spent $$ on it. I think it'll cost more for her to pay me > to convert the site into a Front Page usable site than it did for the > software. > > I know there are drawbacks and advantages to Front Page, but as I've not > used it for awhile, I'm not sure what it is like now. I found FP98 torturous > to use, I'm not sure how much it has improved (or not). Her budget is very > small - so we can't buy fancy expensive content management solutions. > > So what are your experiences with Front Page? What advice can you give me > that I can use to try and convince her to use a better solution? > > Thanks, > Tara Cleveland > > > -- > Tara Cleveland > Web Design and Consulting > http://www.taracleveland.com > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 12:44:00 2002 From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020220184437.50595.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Tara: Please see the response to "Am I being BSed" that I just wrote... I've elaborated some simple Content Management practices that might fit your/her needs. /rg --- "taracleveland at sympatico.ca" wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a client that was told by someone else to use > Front Page to update a > site that I created for her last year. Unfortunately, it > was not created > with Front Page in mind at all. > > I'm having a meeting with her to discuss the updating and > changes that she > wants. > Her budget is very > small - so we can't buy fancy expensive content > management solutions. > What advice > can you give me > that I can use to try and convince her to use a better > solution? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com From evolt at scottbrady.net Wed Feb 20 12:46:01 2002 From: evolt at scottbrady.net (Scott Brady) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? References: Message-ID: <021601c1ba3e$e4c44050$246afd0c@helix> > Does frontpage suck? You bet! > This comes up a lot and it seems to be the consensus. I'm curious to know if FrontPage still sucks (with the latest version) or if we're assuming it still sucks based solely on earlier versions. I've never even used it, but I've always heard that FrontPage 97 or 98 sucked, but they allegedly had improved it with FP2K. (Which seems fairly typical of MSFT software products-- wait until they've done about 3 upgrades and then it gets better) So, is it still true that FP screws up your code with the more recent versions? ---------------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From taracleveland at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 12:50:01 2002 From: taracleveland at sympatico.ca (taracleveland at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <024701c1ba3e$87dfe2e0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> Message-ID: Dan, I don't think that she has the budget for that. After all, she's already paid for the site. I think she's only willing to spend a few hundred dollars (Canadian dollars that is!). So a databased solution is just too much. I'm not sure how many changes she wants to make - that's part of what the meeting is about - but I don't think it's too many. It's also a fairly small site. Cheers, Tara -- Tara Cleveland Web Design and Consulting http://www.taracleveland.com > From: "Dan Romanchik" > Is this site something that would be amenable to a database-driven solution? From chrisg at gsnet.com Wed Feb 20 12:54:02 2002 From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:54:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <021601c1ba3e$e4c44050$246afd0c@helix> Message-ID: Actually, I'd like to clarify this a bit... When I first switched over from CD authoring to the Web (4 years ago! Yikes!), the only tool they gave me was FrontPage 98. I found out that if you just don't use certain options (like their built-in searches, and other weird CGI crap), turn on the "My host doesn't support FrontPage extensions" (even if your host does) and a few other dialogue-box tweaking the end result isn't too bad - for a WYSIWYG app. Don't get me wrong, upgrading to Dreamweaver 1 was the best thing the design dept. ever did. But I digress... Just my .02 CDN. Chris. On 2/20/02 11:46 AM, "Scott Brady" wrote: >> Does frontpage suck? You bet! [snip] > So, is it still true that FP screws up your code with the more recent > versions? From nick at explodingnet.com Wed Feb 20 13:04:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C6046F17EF@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <20020220190718.GA1657@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Tony Crockford declared.... > >>does anyone know of a good color choosing tool? Perhaps >something > >interactive (and free of course) so that I >can see how > >different colors > >look like next to each >other? > > This is my favourite: > > http://www.paletteman.com/ Hmmm... I'll try when I'm next in windows. The rather sad thing is that in NS6 on Linux pretty much none of these things work. Looks very much like a js thing. I tried www.colorschemer.com/online and a few of the others and found that that particular one was the most useful to me. Like someone else commented color always slows me down and takes to much time. I'm a dreadful artist to colorschemer is a huge bonus. Thanks everyone. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8c/PmHpvrrTa6L5oRAlaxAJ0aNbicCGtjfeBEv1X+CV7WOiRLTwCgggny c/5SPxQGKfk5oBEi3DNOoQc= =ZQo1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From websavant at sirenwire.net Wed Feb 20 13:05:00 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:05:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <021601c1ba3e$e4c44050$246afd0c@helix> Message-ID: > So, is it still true that FP screws up your code with the more recent > versions? The code in fp2002 is still junky and all of the extras added in make repairs no fun. My issue with it as a customer update tool is the user-friendliness, especially with nested tables. Resulting opinion: FP2002 still sucks. Kimberly From evolt at perceive.net Wed Feb 20 13:08:01 2002 From: evolt at perceive.net (Eric Vitiello) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] color choosing tool? In-Reply-To: References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C6046F17EF@chm0010mb01> <20020220190718.GA1657@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <02Feb20.135916est.119206@pcbhi266.bhsi.com> -- Nick Wilson [Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:07:18 +0100]: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 >> >>?http://www.paletteman.com/ > >I tried www.colorschemer.com/online and a few of the others and found >that that particular one was the most useful to me. Like someone else >commented color always slows me down and takes to much time. another good one: http://www.visibone.com --- Eric Vitiello Perceive Designs From John.Bedard at trw.com Wed Feb 20 13:10:00 2002 From: John.Bedard at trw.com (John Bedard) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:10:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? Message-ID: Jumping in... Yesterday I was training a client to maintain a site I just delivered last week. They are using FrontPage2000. I developed it in Dreamweaver/Homesite/HTML-Kit. The trick seems to be not creating a "frontpage web." We were able to open the website's folder on the test webserver in FP and make changes to pages without FP corrupting things. If you import a site as a FrontPage Web, it will likely assimilate the code (it even warned me as I was about to experiment with a front page web). A word about the setup... this site uses a lot of server-side includes to build the pages. They will mostly be using FP to update the .inc content files. Perhaps because frontpage does not recognise the extention it doesn't mess with the code. I dunno. I was also able to edit the .asp files we use as templates without FP changing anything. Normally I abhor FP, but it appears to be working okay in this limited context. I would probably refuse a project where I had to develop for FP from scratch. FWIW, John >>> evolt at scottbrady.net 02/20/02 11:46AM >>> > Does frontpage suck? You bet! > This comes up a lot and it seems to be the consensus. I'm curious to know if FrontPage still sucks (with the latest version) or if we're assuming it still sucks based solely on earlier versions. I've never even used it, but I've always heard that FrontPage 97 or 98 sucked, but they allegedly had improved it with FP2K. (Which seems fairly typical of MSFT software products-- wait until they've done about 3 upgrades and then it gets better) So, is it still true that FP screws up your code with the more recent versions? ---------------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 13:10:08 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:10:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C748@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>The site should have been built from the beginning with dynamic, flexible content snippets in mind, and the size (within reason) should be irrelevant to how the pages are rendered.<<< Rob, this was not done at all, in my opinion. The design includes some narrow vertical bar graphics, the alignment of which is critical to the appearance of the site and which gets thrown off completely when an article that's shorter or longer than last month's article is placed into a table cell. I've never been able to isolate this problem (and therefore solve it). >>>At the low end of complexity (well, that depends on your perspective, really) would be HTML pages that are nicely commented and segregated, so that a user could open the pages in a visual editor and clearly see what's theirs to play with and what's not.<<< This was the design firm's solution, and as we speak they're working up a quote to segregate and comment the newsletter page. The departmentresponsible for this site is wondering *why* they are having to spend additional money when they stated up front that the site should be easy to work with. They are even thinking about changing vendors, but I pointed out that a messy Front Page site still exists even if it's moved to a different host. I sure appreciate all the thoughtful responses to this thread - thank you! -Janet From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 13:14:01 2002 From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:14:01 2002 Subject: Subject: Re: [thelist] evolt membership In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220112136.00a65d70@mail.mum.edu> Message-ID: <20020220191418.57553.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Why not invent a taxonomy for prepending to message SUBJ lines, whereupon people would have a defined list of delimiters to filter with their email client, e.g.: [ASP] Re: [thelist] dynamic dropdown lists [CF] Re: Re: RE: [thelist] CFINCLUDE (was: includes) [CRIT] [thelist] Site Review/Critique requested [HDWR] Re: [thelist] Dual AGP slots??? [HSP] [thelist] Good Linux host needed. Of course, it would be up to us to be diligent, and maybe you could even build a popup cheatsheet for the codes, but it sure would make life nicer. Wonder if the listserver could split the subj lines and shove the bracketed term to the front of the string for when it creeps inward on replies. /rg > >Daniel J. Cody wrote: > > >It's been kicked around once or twice in the past, but > the fragmentation > >is an issue like you say :) > > > >That and people getting mad when something that should > go to the backend > >list gets sent to the frontend list. And people like to > learn about such > >a wide variety of stuff(I, a backend guy, pick up bits > here and there > >from watching the frontend discussions, and vice versa > for others i'm sure) > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 13:16:00 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C749@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>and a few other dialogue-box tweaking <<< um, could you tell us what they are? :) I would love to be a little more encouraging when people ask me whether Front Page is a good app - so many seem to want to use it... in fact, another group I work with just recently gave a Front Page workshop to some high school students... and I just cringed when I heard they were training on FP... of course, *I* would have taught them on Notepad, so maybe I'm too far off the other end of the scale. ;) Janet From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 13:21:00 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE14379B@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>I would probably refuse a project where I had to develop for FP from scratch.<<< I think we should *all* go out and build a three-page site using FP2000, and report back here in a week to compile the "offical Front Page suck quotient." Might give us all some ammunition to share with clients who are considering it as a tool. ;) only partially kidding. -Janet From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Wed Feb 20 13:24:01 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? References: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C746@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <3C73ECDF.D5EA284@lightbulbpress.com> I know you're using FrontPage, but Dreamweaver has a great feature called "Clean Up Word HTML" which does what it says, removing all the idiotic and extraneous code that Word finds it neccessary to insert. On those occasions when I'm confronted with an HTML doc created in Word, that's the first thing I do. Janet Green wrote: > Guess I have some reading to do, but I'll ask you folks first. One of our internal departments has a website, designed and now hosted by a local firm, which was supposed to be easy for a non-HTML expert to go in and make changes to using Front Page. The gal in charge of updating the online newsletter portion of this site is having trouble making each month's articles fit into the nested table layout. One of the problems I pointed out to the designers was the fact that their code is not terribly tidy and therefore hard to wade through when making changes. (SHE works on Front Page's "Normal" view, but when it screws up, she calls me in to fix it and *I* work in HTML view.) > > The firm's project manager pointed to a reference in the printed code (36 pages for a single on-screen page!) that says something like, "

" etc etc - and said that these references to "MSO" were put into the code when we would try to copy and paste text from an MS Word document into Front Page. > > This sounded logical to me, but I'd never heard that Front Page would try to maintain Word's formatting. Is that true? (If so, then that makes the site even MORE unfriendly for a non-HTML person to update, because that person is then going to have to take newsletter articles OUT of Word and INTO something else before she can copy and paste them - extra steps, it seems to me.) We've just been really frustrated with the firm's interpretation of "simple to update," and we're all now looking for ways to simplify what should have been simple to start with. Thanks for any light you can shed on "MSO-Normal" and all that junk. > > Janet > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Please note the new Lightbulb Press phone numbers starting January 3: Main: 212-485-8800 Direct: 212-485-8826 From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Wed Feb 20 13:26:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: >> How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted after a >> H# level element using CSS? > >h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {margin-bottom:0;padding-bottom:0} > >This isn't totally effective in all browsers for h1 and h2, which retain >their margins in some browsers (Guess which one!). Ummm, won't h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {display:inline;} be more effective? Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 13:30:01 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE14379D@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>On those occasions when I'm confronted with an HTML doc created in Word, that's the first thing I do.<<< Point well taken, but I may have mislead you... the site's pages aren't being created in Word... it's just that we have a person pasting in TEXT from Word documents when she updates the site. The site's pages were actually created in FP, and FP is carrying over Word's text formatting. (Unless *I* misunderstand, and there is underlying HTML code created by Word even when you just save in the .doc format.) J. From chrisg at gsnet.com Wed Feb 20 13:37:00 2002 From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C749@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: On 2/20/02 12:19 PM, "Janet Green" wrote: >>>> and a few other dialogue-box tweaking <<< > > um, could you tell us what they are? :) Hey - sorry, but that was over 4 years ago... :-) My monitor looks like an ad for Post-It? Notes, if that gives you any indication on my memory capacity - especially considering I really wanted to forget that I even worked at that job. :-) I do remember that I had to find a couple of articles on the 'inter-net' to get it all sorted out - so that'd be a good starting point... Hth, Chris. From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 13:49:01 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] freebie tip Message-ID: <3C73FC43.7010805@members.evolt.org> If you've got a version of Apache newer than 1.3.12, which is what Chili!Soft ASP supports out of the box, you're going to have to compile your own module. No biggie! In fact, there are detailed instructions available at http://www.chilisoft.com/howto/apache_mod.asp that will guide you through the process. However, if you're trying to build your module, and using the line gcc -c -fPIC -I/path/to/apache/include -I. mod_casp2.c and its throwing an error about a missing with something like: /usr/local/apache_1.3.22/src/include/ap_config.h:114:16: os.h: No such file or directory Don't fret! Simply include another directory(the -I flag) into the command which *DOES* contain the os.h(header file), usually $APACHE_SRC_HOME/src/os/unix and it'll compile your module! Heres an example: gcc -c -fPIC -I/usr/local/apache_1.3.22/src/include -I/usr/local/apache_1.3.22/src/os/unix -I. mod_casp2.c Assuming your apache source is in /usr/local/apache_1.3.22 of course. I'm sure this will save someone a headache someday :) .djc. From webmaster at archetype-it.com Wed Feb 20 13:49:09 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Wed Feb 20 13:49:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <021601c1ba3e$e4c44050$246afd0c@helix> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020220204314.00b32a88@mail.archetype-it.com> At 11:46 20/02/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I'm curious to know if >FrontPage still sucks (with the latest version) or if we're assuming it >still sucks based solely on earlier versions. I think too many people are assuming. Yes, FP extensions suck, and always have done. But if you steer clear of those, FP2000 is a perfectly acceptable WYSIWYG editor (I prefer to use Textpad myself!). It doesn't mess with your code, and it has some really good site management features (better than Dreamweaver's IMHO). I teach a beginners' Internet course for the Open University, and many of the students happily use FP to produce web pages because it looks/works just like the Office apps they are used to. Dreamweaver doesn't -- it's quite hard to get to grips with if you don't have any experience with Web authoring. Just my 2 cents! like Dan, I still find the best solution is to use a db-driven system -- which doesn't have to be expensive. Or, if it's "news" type pages, why not look at using a blogging tool such as Blogger or Greymatter? You can create a template, and the users can easily update the content. -- Veronica Yuill Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From jmachado at mindspring.com Wed Feb 20 14:21:01 2002 From: jmachado at mindspring.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu�?= Figueira Machado) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220151800.01bdd6f0@pop.mindspring.com> Try this: (1) Put this in your script; var newWindow = new Object(); newWindow = null; function subWin(url,wdth,hght){ var screenTop = (screen.height / 2) - (hght / 2); var screenLeft = (screen.width / 2) - (wdth / 2); if (newWindow && !newWindow.closed) { newWindow.close(); } newWindow = window.open(url,'newWin','width='+wdth+',height='+hght+',top='+screenTop+',left='+screenLeft+',screenY='+screenTop+',screenX='+screenLeft+',status=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=no'); if(!newWindow.opener) { newWindow.opener = self; } newWindow.focus(); } (2) Then call it; your image I changed the way you position the new window in the page, but let me know if you wish to pass those values as well. Watch for the line wrapping and let me know if it doesn't work. Good luck, Josu? At 12:16 PM 2/20/2002 -0500, you wrote: >hey everybody. > >I am NOT a javascript master, more like someone who can massage pre-written >code. if you were to look at the source code here >http://identfi.com/pleasure/photobody.shtml >-warning old content- >You will notice that I have ten billion subwindows being defined. What I'm >looking for is a onetime .js reference in the head and an attribute >definition in the . example > >function subWin1(){ > > window.open(.... thiswindow, thiswidth, this height, border... >etc..) > > THEN in the call > >that way I could define different sized popups not in the head but in the >function call. dig me? > >There just has to be a way to make what I'm attempting easier (and >lighter-kb), instead of just forcing all images/popups to the same size. am >I crazy? is this possible? From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 14:35:01 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: <36A616C4-261E-11D6-A1C9-0050E430F735@omnivore.ca> References: <36A616C4-261E-11D6-A1C9-0050E430F735@omnivore.ca> Message-ID: >One problem with authenticating once and storing the result in a session >var is that if the admin removes access while the user is logged in, the >user could continue to access the data until they log out or the session >expires. Hi Dan, This would be a special case. If you needed a facility to dump someone immediately then you could use either the Mohawk session system (currently CVS only) and create a routine (e.g.: destroy_user_session($id) ) which your access privilege system would call when a user's access is revoked. Mohawk from PHP: http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.msession.php Or (and until the above matures, more stably) you could build a set of custom session handling functions, save the session data to a db, then simply clear that data in the same function the program uses to revoke access privileges. This would be similar to ripping the pants of a user's session... but that's more or less what the situation you describe above requires. Implement your own save handler for PHP sessions: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.session-set-save-handler.php Ying Zhang also has a tutorial on this at phpbuilder.net: http://phpbuilder.net/columns/ying20000602.php3 >This is more about storing the name/pass in sessions and >confirming their status each new access than it is about passing >name/pass back and forth. I was disturbed by the: no sessions + reauthenticate a user on every page. TBH, I still am disturbed by that... Cheers Andrew -- Andrew Forsberg --- uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/ the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/ From ben at inchima.com Wed Feb 20 14:43:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I was disturbed by the: no sessions + reauthenticate a user on every > page. TBH, I still am disturbed by that... good morning to you. now it's late here, and i take it you have just got up? you now have the advantage. :o) if you are referring to my case, then i would reiterate that there were sessions involved, just not php 4 sessions. btw, the information on save handlers was very interesting, thanks for that. benji inchima.com From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com Wed Feb 20 14:52:00 2002 From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:52:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] TIP - Event Bubbling in BRIO 6.5 Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4B88D@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Gang, Hey - we *did say* even weird stuff could be used as tips, right? Here's one that's been driving me batty lately ... well ... battier than usual at any rate. ;-) Aside: {'BRIO' is one of those 'enterprise' web-reporting tools for mining data out of your corporate databases.} The 6.5 version of BRIO kinda uses event bubbling. Why do we care? Several reasons: (1) It's not documented - so you could end up like me - spending hours and hours trying to figure out what could possibly be wrong with the report you are working on with no help from the documentation and even less help from vendor support. (2) BRIO has not yet implemented any kind of boolean 'window.event.cancelBubble' element in their DOM to allow you to turn this property off for specific elements -- so you are going to have to learn to design around it. (3) Any time a user clicks a command button, (or other clickable element), on one of your reports - not only will the "OnClick" event fire, (as it should), but the "OnActivate" event for the section the command button is embedded within will ALSO fire! Again! [It fired once when the user opened that section of the report.] On the plus side, the 'OnStartUp' document level event does not seem to refire. (4) {I *did* say "semi-implemented" didn't I?} It looks like the command button 'OnClick' event bubbling to the section 'OnActivate' event only occurs if your 'OnClick' script "touches" another section. E.g. If your 'OnClick' script only raises an alert box, then the 'OnActivate' does not fire. If your 'OnClick' script unhides another section, then the 'OnActivate' does fire. Did I mention how aggregating this was to learn? RonL. (Off now to waste time figuring out how to re-design those 'run once but never run a second time' 'initialization' scripts and work my way around this bugger.) From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 14:53:00 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:53:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220151800.01bdd6f0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: josu?, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Josu? Figueira Machado > > newWindow.focus(); ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< if you're going to call the focus() method, you'd better check for support of it first (it wasn't part of js1.0, so some browsers will have issues with it). if(newWindow.focus) newWindow.focus(); ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > href="javascript:subWin('/digitalio1.htm',500,375);" > >your image ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< tsk, tsk naughty javascripter. put down your toys, go directly to jail, and do *not* collect $200. for good behavior (reading the article at the link below), we'll let you off with time served. *grin* Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ enjoy, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From jklewis at umich.edu Wed Feb 20 15:05:01 2002 From: jklewis at umich.edu (John Kipling Lewis) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Is there an easy way to create new Radio Buttons? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, .jeff wrote: > how do you account for non-js users? do you just cut your losses with them > with the notion that the whiz-bang eye candy is more important than > including them? > > there's a better solution, but it involves replacing elements in the dom. > the form starts out with normal form elements to begin with and then upon > page load the html for them is replaced with html for the image with > attached event handlers and the associated hidden input. > > if you're in the habit of developing things without considering the > consequences, then i've got an article you need to read: > > Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony > http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ So are you going to show me how to do that, or just tease me? :-) John - From mpgalvin at eircom.net Wed Feb 20 15:12:01 2002 From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Message-ID: <000601c1ba53$4c19dda0$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 based on searches made or something). I'd like to show my boss that getting a number one spot in some rinky dink European portal search is not the big woo-hah he claims it is. Yeah, like I'm going to show up my boss in my third week in the job. I'll wait until my fifth week. Michael From rachel at cre8d-design.com Wed Feb 20 15:22:01 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines In-Reply-To: <000601c1ba53$4c19dda0$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: :) Try http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/netratings.html (for more see: http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/index.html) -----Original Message----- Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 based on searches made or something). From websavant at sirenwire.net Wed Feb 20 15:22:08 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:22:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines In-Reply-To: <000601c1ba53$4c19dda0$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: > Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 > based on searches made or something). Michael, A great one-stop shop for search engine stats/background/info is: http://www.searchenginewatch.com/reports/index.html Hth, Kimberly From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Wed Feb 20 15:23:01 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Message-ID: <96.2217043b.29a56dbb@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Michael, Try this: http://www.searchenginewatch.com/links/ I have found it to be a very useful site. Nan ---------original message-------- mpgalvin at eircom.net writes: > Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 > based on searches made or something). I'd like to show my boss that getting > a number one spot in some rinky dink European portal search is not the big > woo-hah he claims it is. Yeah, like I'm going to show up my boss in my > third week in the job. I'll wait until my fifth week. > > Michael From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 15:24:00 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C74A@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 based on searches made or something). I'd like to show my boss that getting a number one spot in some rinky dink European portal search is not the big woo-hah he claims it is.<<< Michael, a number one spot in a rinky dink European portal search is absolutely invaluable if that's where your site's visitors will go to look for you :) Point being, don't discredit some of the "minor" search engines just because you as a web surfer haven't heard of them or don't use them. Always keep your site visitor's needs in mind. Having said that, I just went through my own twice-yearly search engine optimization (SEO) process last week, and my 'net resources tell me that the critical SE's these days are: Directories: Yahoo and LookSmart Crawlers: Alta Vista and Inktomi To this list I added Google (because it feeds Yahoo and because my web traffic report tells me I get a lot of traffic from BOTH Google and Yahoo), and DMOZ (because it feeds AOL and others, and we get a TON of traffic from AOL users). My advice is to look over your traffic reports and discover what engines people are already using to find you... do a little reading at www.searchenginewatch.com to see what they recommend (don't be surprised to learn that the SE business is leaning toward paid submissions these days)... and compile a short tailored list so you can focus your efforts on optimizing your rankings in the places where it matters to your company. And, don't be afraid to list with that rinky dink European portal if it suits your audience ;) Best, Janet Are you ready to "change your view?" Visit www.desmoinesmetro.com From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 15:25:00 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE1437A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines<<< And don't forget www.rankwrite.com, their free newsletter is awesome. ;) Janet From andrew at thepander.co.nz Wed Feb 20 15:28:00 2002 From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:28:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >good morning to you. now it's late here, and i take it you have just got up? >you now have the advantage. :o) Good morning to you too! I was actually writing a response to your last email, :) just call me bloody-minded: >if you are referring to my case, then i would reiterate that there were >sessions involved, just not php 4 sessions. Ben Phillips wrote about 8 hours ago: >no, a session id is passed between pages. the session id is created when a >user logs in. this is then compared to that stored in the database. if it is >valid, and hasn't timed out then the login is okay. > >when i said session variables weren't available, i meant php 4 >$HTTP_SESSION_VARS. sorry for confusion. OK, so each page would have something like this included at the top: if ($HTTP_POST_VARS["register_user"]==TRUE) { // authenticate them // set loginOK to true if appropriate } if ($MY_SESSION_VAR["loginOK"]!=TRUE) { // redirect them somewhere else exit(); // kill further output just to make sure } // all is cool and they get the secret content If someone has attempted a login, then that gets handled first. If someone's logged in (either in the first IF block, or previously) then everything runs as usual. Otherwise they're kicked back to some generic login screen, a message is displayed, or whatever other policy is followed for unwanted users. > > What are the advantages of reauthenticating a user on each page? > >see above comment. badders.com has a login box on every page. the user can >use this to log in. the session code included on every page checks to see if >a session id is passed, if not then it checks to see if a login attempt has >been made, if not then it displays the login box (roughly). Aaaah. We're using terms in different ways. By 'authenticate' I mean: 'compare the provided login data against a record of registered users, if there's a match the user is authenticated.' By 'authorize' I mean: 'an authenticated user may be authorized to use a page, a flag is typically checked to see if they are allowed to view the document.' So the first IF block above would load an authentication script. The second IF block is a simple authorization test. Checking whether a user is authorized on each page of a secure area is necessary, authenticating a user on every page is not necessary. In your original example the $loginOK variable is either the result of an internal authentication script which is re-evaluated on every page; or, it is your session's flag that the user is good to go, ie, authorized to view the page. The former involves a lot of redundant work on each page, in my opinion, but is safe enough as long as the user/pass are session variables, or otherwise kept from GET/POST (even storing them in cookies would not be nice). The latter requires that $loginOK is not liable to be hidden by a GET/POST/COOKIE variable -- or there is no security. The default variable scope order is EGPCS: environment, get, post, cookie, and (PHP 4's internal) session variables. So, the custom session handler your program used loaded all of its variables into the local scope? >btw, the information on save handlers was very interesting, thanks for that. No problem. :) >benji >inchima.com Cheers Andrew -- Andrew Forsberg --- uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/ the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/ From joshua at alphashop.net Wed Feb 20 15:30:00 2002 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:30:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Free Tip - CF & ASP.NET References: Message-ID: <079601c1ba57$a5b15d30$a600a8c0@client1> If you are a CF programmer running on a Win 2k server and wish you had some tools to generate dynamic images without installing something huge like Macromedia generator or silly like any of the hudreds of CFX graphics engines available, then do yourself a favor and install the ASP.NET framework and check out Chris Garrett's tutorials at: http://www.aspalliance.com/chrisg/default.asp?article=109 You can download the ASP.NET framework at: http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sample.asp?url=/MSDN-FILES/027/001/829/m sdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true It's not really that tough if you just follow the examples. From mpgalvin at eircom.net Wed Feb 20 15:36:01 2002 From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] High profile awards Message-ID: <001e01c1ba56$e7c53760$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Apart from the Webby Awards, what other award programs are there for commercial sites? My boss is trying to increase the profile of the web development side of the business (ie., me) and he thinks awards are the best way to go about it. In Ireland, perhaps that's the case, but I think there must be better ways (I just can't think of any right now!). Michael From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed Feb 20 15:50:00 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:50:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] High profile awards Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C74B@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>My boss is trying to increase the profile of the web development side of the business (ie., me) and he thinks awards are the best way to go about it. In Ireland, perhaps that's the case, but I think there must be better ways <<< Michael, I hate to sound disagreeable again... but... our experience with awards was that they were actually very useful. They generated a LOT of additional traffic for us, because we submitted our site in awards competitions sponsored by the types of groups we *wanted* to visit our site. It also resulted in a lot of additional web business for the design firm that originally worked on our site, because they were able to use it as an "award-winning portfolio piece." In my marketing-oriented opinion, the best way to build the web development side of your business would be to gather testimonials from satisfied clients, couple those with an analysis of what you actually accomplished for those clients, and find a compelling way to present that information to your prospects in a format (CD? online portfolio? Power Point presentation?) that they are likely to respond to and that makes you look good. If you are going to focus on awards, focus on submitting your work for awards that are meaningful to your prospects... and use any awards you do receive as the topic of a press release sent out to publications that your prospects are likely to see. (What I mean is, it doesn't do you much good to win design-industry awards if you don't promote them and/or if your clients don't give a hoot about what's going on in the design industry.) Maybe you can pitch this angle to your boss, and s/he'll be impressed with your ability to focus on the prospect's needs. From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 15:57:01 2002 From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear) Date: Wed Feb 20 15:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? Message-ID: <20020220215758.25010.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Janet: As indicated by another evolter, your solution lies in a modular architecture. The site structure, navigation, and constants need to be wrapped up into includes, database calls, or HIGHLY segregated and commented sections of the HTML. Since you mention FrontPage and MS Word, I'm going to go out on a limb and throw some ideas at you that are Microsoft-centric... At the low end of complexity (well, that depends on your perspective, really) would be HTML pages that are nicely commented and segregated, so that a user could open the pages in a visual editor and clearly see what's theirs to play with and what's not.[1] In the middle range I could forsee a simple (read: inexpensive) system that allows your users to edit the existing content via the web such as... http://www.active-publisher.com http://www.yusasp.com/prj04.asp http://www.opencms.org/opencms/opencms/index.html http://www.fogcreek.com/ http://www.zope.org/ ...each page would probably need to be predefined to properly call includes and nav, as these aren't robust from a CMS standpoint, but affordable and easy for the end user to edit content within. At the high end, you could go with a site that's fully dynamic, including the rendering of your navigation based on the addition and organization of pages. The admins could have an interface to design a page template, the users could have a place to build a new page based on those aforementioned templates, and a place to organize the architecture so that the nav is built correctly. A bit expensive to implement but pretty much self-maintaining and easiest for the end user. Moreover, with newsletter articles, you're -- by definition -- describing a publishing environment. The site should have been built from the beginning with dynamic, flexible content snippets in mind, and the size (within reason) should be irrelevant to how the pages are rendered. The design should accomodate either incredibly flexible sizes of content, or article summaries with jump pages. [1] But all this aside, it seems that your biggest problem is the tool being used. Word creates the most bloated and funky code I've ever seen. FP is equally squirrely. GoLive isn't too bad, and the latest version plays nicely with server-side scripting technologies, such as ASP, JSP and CF, and also allows document versioning and collaboration. Hope my $.02 helps. Would love to continue this thread. /rg > > --- Janet Green wrote: > ... One of our internal departments has a website, > > designed and now hosted by a local firm, which was > > supposed to be easy for a non-HTML expert to go in and > > make changes to using Front Page. The gal in charge of > > updating the online newsletter portion of this site is > > having trouble making each month's articles fit into > the > > nested table layout. One of the problems I pointed out > to > > the designers was the fact that their code is not > > terribly tidy > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From mpgalvin at eircom.net Wed Feb 20 16:00:01 2002 From: mpgalvin at eircom.net (Michael Galvin) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML Message-ID: <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> The 'Am I being BSed' post on this list reminded me of something I thought of during work today. One of our clients creates a montly e-zine, in Word. There's no formatting, etc on this file, but we've convinced them to make it a little prettier at least as we're about to give users of their site the option to direct download these files. Anyway, as an aside, they also have a small mailing list of people to whom they send this newsletter. Up to now, they've been cutting from Word, pasting into a mail message and sending it off. Line breaks are atrocious, there's no formatting whatsover and it just looks very unprofessional. They'd like to move to more formatted HTML email (disregarding people on the list who don't view HTML email) and to that end, I created a template for them, but of course, it's a little dodgy as they have to be sure to get the headings, contents, etc into the right place at the right time, every time, otherwise it'll go a little screwy. So, I suddenly thought why not just save the Word file as a HTML file, and yes, the HTML is awful and about 20 times more than is required, but in the case of HTML email, wouldn't it be okay? If so, is there anything I should be aware of? I'm thinking in particular the width of the email - in my template, I put in TABLE WIDTH=500 to cover most email windows (yeah, I'm sure there are better ways of dealing with that) -- would they have to put their own tables into the Word doc? Would formatting come out okay? Lots of questions, and probably only one real way to answer them -- try it myself. I'd just like to know of any potential issues before I get to it tomorrow. Michael From rachel at cre8d-design.com Wed Feb 20 16:07:00 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:07:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML In-Reply-To: <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: Michael, why not have a preview option in your template which will throw up what the e-zine will look like before mailing it? I'm assuming you mean by template, a form with text areas/browse buttons (for images) for the various parts of the ezine? I do this with a client currently :) .:peace rachel -----Original Message----- Michael Galvin One of our clients creates a montly e-zine, in Word. They'd like to move to more formatted HTML email (disregarding people on the list who don't view HTML email) and to that end, I created a template for them, but of course, it's a little dodgy as they have to be sure to get the headings, contents, etc into the right place at the right time, every time, otherwise it'll go a little screwy. From matt at sweetillusions.org Wed Feb 20 16:13:01 2002 From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class CMS systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully centering on implementation and general risk assessment. i've personally delt with interwoven quite a bit in the past and have no immediate desire to spend 6 digits worth of time and pain for such little reward. some of the contenders i've been eyeing include the microsoft cms, atomz publisher, plumtree, fat wire and zope ... others? would love to hear what you all have seen ... // matt From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 16:13:13 2002 From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:13:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 References: <20020220160558.DCDA13B9B@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <005801c1ba5b$ef4ee580$550487cb@pakcomp> Hi Ben, This not a place to discuss piracy but it is to be noted that what you said about Asia is true. But think for a moment! Who is responsible? Me or you? No! None of us is responsible. I am a common citizen of Pakistan and you are (I guess) also not a man directly from any government. I am just annoyed of these pirated softwares. But the large software developing companies do not concern about this bad thing (piracy), although, the big guys at these companies know everything. Many Asian countries don't have a single office of any software giants (I am not targeting any one company). Our government is asking many software companies to come into our country just to eliminate and terminate the piracy but there is not any bit of any such company till thousands of kilometres. Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Phillips" To: Subject: RE: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:55:03 -0000 Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > address. I'll try my best to help you. not too sure about the legality of this, asia is full of pirated software (around 90% of software is pirated). 'cheap software' sounds suspiciously like pirated software to me; i hasten to add that i don't mean to sound cynical, so forgive me if this is a genuine offer. have a read of this if it is pirated software you are talking about - in fact, have a read anyway: http://www.theinquirer.net/piracy1.htm benji inchima.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 16:14:00 2002 From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:14:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] What is DOM? Message-ID: <005901c1ba5b$f1ee4880$550487cb@pakcomp> Hello Experts, I have read about DOM at many places but too much complex technical language has always been an obstacle in my way to learn about DOM. Can somebody tell me what DOM really is? How can it be important for web development? To which extent is it necessary for web developer to learn about DOM? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 16:14:08 2002 From: zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:14:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 References: <20020220172551.78E62520C4@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <005a01c1ba5b$f48483c0$550487cb@pakcomp> Hi Maurice, Saying very clearly, I am NOT a trader of any kind. Secondly, my offer was genuine. There was NO personal interest in helping Sergio in any way. Please don't be doubtful about anybody's intentions. My religion Islam tells me: "Doubt is a very bad thing. Don't ever do it". Anyhow, thank you for your compliments. Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:20:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 From: maurice To: Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org on 20-02-2002 15:44, Syed Zeeshan Haider at zeeshan_paki at yahoo.com wrote: I can't believe this guy is using his history of somewhat naieve and unintelligent posts to get away with trading pirated software on the list. Maurice > Hi Sergio, > I live in Pakistan. Here softwares are very cheap and they are > affordable for everybody. Mail me off-list and let me know your street > address. I'll try my best to help you. > Thank you, > Syed Zeeshan Haider. > http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From allie at pajunas.com Wed Feb 20 16:30:01 2002 From: allie at pajunas.com (Allie Micka) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML In-Reply-To: <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> References: <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: <20020220221640.GD84700@pajunas.com> HTML in email is bad!, especially since you're considering sending LARGE HTML emails to a bunch of people. Minimally, make sure that there is also a plaintext section in the email. I for one frequently use a text-only email client and I routinely delete plaintext-free emails. On a more helpful/less ranty note, word html can be made a LOT better using Microsoft's "save as compact HTML" plugin. Look on their office downloads site. It can either be used as a plugin from word (by them) or in standalone batch mode (by you) to produce respectable code. If you were really ambitios, you could convert the normal "save as html" to XML (http://wh2fo.sourceforge.net/) and convert it to whatever you want as cleanly as you want using XSLT. Probably overkill for what you want to do, but the wh2fo folks get major cool points. -- Allie Micka pajunas interactive, inc. reusable web components and hosting http://pajunas.com From rachel at cre8d-design.com Wed Feb 20 16:31:01 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: matt i'm looking right now also.. spent a lot of time fiddling with postnuke and phpnuke but found that, for what i wanted, it would be a lot of time and effort for little return also. i've been writing my own custom cms but i'd like something more generic (which i currently don't have the time to write!) i'd like to know if anyone has used http://www.midgard-project.org/ - and how good it is, before diving in myself. it's php based and open source (my favourite!). .:peace rachel From pf at cfdev.com Wed Feb 20 16:39:01 2002 From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] What is DOM? In-Reply-To: <005901c1ba5b$f1ee4880$550487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: DOM stands for the Document Object Model, and it's a way of representing a document (be it XML or HTML) using Object Oriented programming. It basically allows you to have access to any part of the document you want by calling functions. You can use DOM in JavaScript, or you can use it to parse an XML document (extract nodes from it). The way it usually works is it reads the document, then you can get Access to the document root (in HTML it would probably be the HTML tag). From there you can call functions/methods on the node like getAttributes or getChildren (which would return the child elements of the node (maybe head, and body elements). From there you can keep traversing the nodes recursively, and gathering information from them, or in JavaScript you can actually change values of things. DOM is a W3C standard (http://www.w3.org/DOM/), but in the case of JavaScript you will find differences between browsers, but if you are using a DOM XML parser (like xerces http://xml.apache.org) you will find that they typically use standard interfaces. Here's a good article about using DOM with JavaScript: http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/technote/tn-dom-table/ As far as how necessary it is for a web developer to know, it really depends on what you do. If you do a lot of JavaScript then its good to learn about, if you work with XML a lot then it's also good to learn about, other than that you wont find much use for it. _____________________________________________ Pete Freitag (pfreitag at cfdev.com) CTO, CFDEV.COM ColdFusion Developer Resources http://www.cfdev.com/ -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Syed Zeeshan Haider Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:09 PM To: Evolt Subject: [thelist] What is DOM? Hello Experts, I have read about DOM at many places but too much complex technical language has always been an obstacle in my way to learn about DOM. Can somebody tell me what DOM really is? How can it be important for web development? To which extent is it necessary for web developer to learn about DOM? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From crsaila at yahoo.ca Wed Feb 20 16:42:01 2002 From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] What is DOM? References: <005901c1ba5b$f1ee4880$550487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <3C7426A7.3030607@yahoo.ca> Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote: > language has always been an obstacle in my way to learn about DOM. Can Here's a couple of good articles and resources I've found useful: - Gecko's DOM reference: - "Scripting for the 6.0 Browsers" by Scott Andrew LePera: - Apple's "DOM-2 Part I & II" also by Scott Andrew LePera: -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 16:44:02 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:44:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200202202243.g1KMhU8f020439@leo.evolt.org> > From: matt newell > > i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class > CMS systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully > centering on implementation and general risk assessment. yes, but more from a competitive research angle... what you looking for? there's also a keen CMS list over at http://camworld.com/cms/... > i've personally delt with interwoven quite a bit in the past and have > no immediate desire to spend 6 digits worth of time and pain for such > little reward. some of the contenders i've been eyeing include the > microsoft cms, atomz publisher, plumtree, fat wire and zope ... > others? biased: http://quantumcms.com/ clearly i have interest in you digging that one... but if you have questions about it or any of its implementation issues, gimme an offlist holler.. From jnabring at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 16:46:00 2002 From: jnabring at yahoo.com (Janet Nabring-Stager) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] TIP - Event Bubbling in BRIO 6.5 In-Reply-To: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4B88D@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Message-ID: <20020220224656.60050.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> Okay, so I'm clueless, but what is 'bubbling?' I've used this tool before, but not extensively... TIA- oh, I owe probably: If you are printing to Adobe Distiller from Word to create PDF documents and they are STILL weighing a ton, try the following: 1. Save the document in Word as HTML, open in Dreamweaver and use their awesome, wonderful, splediferous, ragin' tool to strip out all the microsoft crud (loving that tool, I tell you). 2. If this doesn't work or makes the document look waaaayyy funky, try cutting and pasting sections onto an entirely new Word document I discovered these things while creating PDF forms using a third party submission tool for our intranet... --- "Luther, Ron" wrote: > author="Ron > Luther"> > The 6.5 version of BRIO kinda uses event bubbling. Why do we care? > Several reasons: ===== Janet Nabring-Stager __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Wed Feb 20 16:46:08 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:46:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] GET vs. POST Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C6046F17F5@chm0010mb01> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] When creating forms we have an option to use GET or POST methods. I was wondering if there are any specific reasons that people use GET or POST or if it is just a matter of preference. Are there any tradeoffs between the two? Are there any differences with how the back button will work? Are there any other issues? I guess I will start with one obvious difference, that GET is limited in the number of characters unlike POST. But what else? Josh From dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org Wed Feb 20 16:48:01 2002 From: dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (Dulcie Meatheringham) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I being BS'd? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C746@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: Janet wrote: > Thanks for any light you can shed on "MSO-Normal" and all that junk. As others have said, that does happen when you copy-paste from Word to Front Page. What I do is right-click the document in the folders list and choose "Open with..." and select Front Page. FP converts the file to RTF and makes a new html document. I copy-paste from that into the template. It's safe to remove the MSO-Normal and extra junk... I've had to do it a few too many times. I'll have to look into the "Paste special" option - haven't tried it myself. That would certainly be much easier. Good luck, Dulcie. -- Dulcie Meatheringham, Web Projects Coordinator dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (780) 424-6512, x227 http://www.heritagecommunityfdn.org Heritage Community Foundation From scotts at rci-nv.com Wed Feb 20 16:58:01 2002 From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz) Date: Wed Feb 20 16:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] GET vs. POST Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov] > > When creating forms we have an option to use GET or POST > methods. I was > wondering if there are any specific reasons that people use > GET or POST or > if it is just a matter of preference. Are there any > tradeoffs between the > two? Are there any differences with how the back button will > work? Are there any other issues? Off the top of my head: GET puts all the results into the query string. This makes the submission a little less secure, since everything you entered is visible right there on the screen and it gets stored in your list of visited sites. But, this type of query has advantages since it can also be bookmarked, copied and pasted into e-mail, etc. It is meant to be used to GET data from, for example, a search engine. You can they send that same query to your friends or to TheList by including the query string in the URL. POST hides all the data that is sent; none of it is visible on the screen after it is sent. Only slightly more secure, though, since the results are still transmitted in plain text. This type of query cannot be bookmarked, and is usually meant to POST data once for storage on the server, such as into a database application. A blog post or an online order form would be examples of this one-time submission. So, ideally, you would decide which one to use based on what you were going to be doing with the data once the server receives it, if you want the results page to be bookmarked, and if you want the same data to be able to be passed around and easily resubmitted or not. From paul at wishlist.com.au Wed Feb 20 17:16:01 2002 From: paul at wishlist.com.au (Paul Cowan) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] coding specifically for Australian market Message-ID: <20EAFBF49A8B5141807AFDCB5ED9DB71CFDBBC@coen.wishlist.com.au> Hey nate, > For example, I think I heard somewhere that a bigger % of Australian users > use Netscape than do so globally. (It's about 12% global, but I thought it > was closer to 17% down under.) I can only speak for the site for which I work (if not Australia's biggest online general-purpose retailer, then close to it). Obviously our demographic may be substantially different to yours (e.g. corporations which lock down browser versions on their desktops are probably likely to frown on people shopping online during work hours), but it's probably about as close to a cross-section of the Aussie browser population as you can get... unless Isaac or someone can provide a bit more variety of stats. Anyway, we're currently tracking at about 91% IE, 5% netscape, and the rest proxy servers etc. Opera and WebTV are present, if statistically insignificant. In IE, IE 5 vs. IE 6 is split about 70-25; In Netscape, Netsape 4 vs. Netscape 6 is about 83-13. > Another example (that doesn't specifically apply to Au): When coding for > Asian markets, it's important to fully use CSS, because font tags aren't > supported by Asian (double-byte) browsers. No idea about that... but bear in mind that Australia has an extremely high proportions of Asian-born residents... so if this is true, a lot of Australians (English-speaking or no) will be using such browsers. In fact, it might pay to bear in mind that Australia has a VERY varied mix of ethnicities... as just an example, my hometown, Melbourne, has more Greek people living in it that any other city in the world except Athens. Not sure how useful that is to know -- but an interesting fact, anyway! > I'm sure there can't be too many differences, but since I'm serving a > known, specific geographic audience, I'd like to do whatever > I can to make it as good and appropriate as possible. It IS worth considering that broadband takeup in Australia is very low -- largely because of the ridiculous expense. Connections to the outside world can be flaky too -- so be careful where the site is hosted, and go easy on the bandwidth. Hope this helps! Cheers, Paul From dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org Wed Feb 20 17:16:23 2002 From: dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (Dulcie Meatheringham) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:16:23 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE14379B@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: Janet wrote: > >>>I would probably refuse a project where I had to develop for > FP from scratch.<<< > > I think we should *all* go out and build a three-page site using > FP2000, and report back here in a week to compile the "offical > Front Page suck quotient." Might give us all some ammunition to > share with clients who are considering it as a tool. > > ;) only partially kidding. How about 300 or 500 page sites: http://www.albertaheritage.net http://collections.ic.gc.ca/alberta http://collections.ic.gc.ca/pasttopresent http://collections.ic.gc.ca/abnature These were all built with Front Page 2000, the last 3 in the list by interns. Front Page gives you easy access to the source code, and is excellent for site management and provides lots of information on your site (reports, etc.) and a wicked Search and Replace function. If people are familiar with MS Word, then FP won't be too intimidating. Even our research interns are able to edit and update with Front Page. I like it. I only used Dreamweaver once, and found myself feeling blind because I couldn't see what was happening, and the source code was only available in a tiny window. I'd like to try it (and Homesite) some more. Downsides: can't customize it to use instead of , etc. Upsides: can customize it to whatever level of browser support you like, page load times and connection speed, etc., can configure editors for .css files, and for image files. I imagine it won't seem very impressive if you're used to the way you build sites with another tool, but it's completely suitable for our purposes. Dulcie. -- Dulcie Meatheringham, Web Projects Coordinator dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (780) 424-6512, x227 http://www.heritagecommunityfdn.org Heritage Community Foundation From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com Wed Feb 20 17:25:01 2002 From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] TIP - Event Bubbling in BRIO 6.5 Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4B88F@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Janet, Golly! Somebody else who has used Brio!? Hmmm ... I think 'event bubbling' may be best described through an example: [Gosh - I hope I don't screw this up!] ;-) Think of the "Container Model" for a moment, (that silly little thing that lets 'contained' items inherit CSS properties from 'higher level' entities). Let's say, for example, that you define an "OnClick" event for a paragraph "

" element and that you define another "OnClick" event for a bold "" element. 'Event Bubbling' is the term given to the situation where your user clicks on the bold element, (thus firing the bold's "OnClick"), and the event "bubbles up" and fires the paragraph's "OnClick" event, (because the paragraph 'contains' the bold element), without any additional action by the user. Here's a better write-up [with clickable examples](and where I stole the

and example!): http://www.webreference.com/js/tips/000131.html Here's a step-by-step report you can build in Brio to see what I'm complaining about in that product: http://www.fangsnclaws.com/Brio/brio_tip7.html 'zat help any? RonL. -----Original Message----- From: Janet Nabring-Stager [mailto:jnabring at yahoo.com] Okay, so I'm clueless, but what is 'bubbling?' I've used this tool before, but not extensively... From cvos at netpaths.net Wed Feb 20 17:32:00 2002 From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript help ascenddvd.com References: <20020220231448.310B7C13E@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3C743207.EC7B5DF2@netpaths.net> I have a popup problem on http://www.ascenddvd.com/rainier.php clicking on the help image (lower left hand corner of the 3D mount rainier map) brings up a popup. fine. however, in IE win there is no scrollbar and there should be. also, on the same page, clicking on each of the routes brings up a popup (different code) that centers a new window with a QTVR movie. I've tried to remove the code that centers the window, but it is being finicky. help! -- Cayley Vos, Principal 360.714.8395 office 360.223.7799 cell http://degagefurniture.com ____________________________________________ From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk Wed Feb 20 17:41:00 2002 From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:41:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F010C3C28@BOOTROS> > > How would I go about removing the line break automatically > > inserted after a H# level element using CSS? > The most xbrowser way is to not use any of the Header tags > and just create CSS classes that have the same appearance. Unfortunately that's not a very cross-search-engine way of doing this (leaving aside the examples of people with a custom stylesheet, people using Lynx, etc) Cheers Jon From stef at nota-bene.org Wed Feb 20 17:55:02 2002 From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:55:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Strange client in log Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221002209.009e9ec0@mail.nota-bene.org> Hi all In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". Any idea what this client may be? s t e f From nonzero at well.com Wed Feb 20 17:59:00 2002 From: nonzero at well.com (Kevin D. White) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:59:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Strange client in log References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221002209.009e9ec0@mail.nota-bene.org> Message-ID: <00b801c1ba6a$40640140$3001330a@marchfirstslc.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Probably some one from nfis.com is running the Webinator indexer on your site. http://www.thunderstone.com/texis/site/pages/webinator.html - ----- Original Message ----- From: "s t e f" > In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; > Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". > Any idea what this client may be? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPHQ3uakcrjXY5do7EQJx9wCbBMcw2AQvdICRvWFgmDyEwXyll8sAnjI/ U88JwPtArmO9LIo39ZYQPcev =V1vs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From smurf at ragingsmurf.com Wed Feb 20 18:02:00 2002 From: smurf at ragingsmurf.com (Jim Davis) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:02:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] GET vs. POST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Comments Inline -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Scott Schrantz Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:58 PM To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' Subject: RE: [thelist] GET vs. POST * -----Original Message----- > From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov] > > When creating forms we have an option to use GET or POST > methods. I was > wondering if there are any specific reasons that people use > GET or POST or > if it is just a matter of preference. Are there any > tradeoffs between the > two? Are there any differences with how the back button will > work? Are there any other issues? Off the top of my head: GET puts all the results into the query string. This makes the submission a little less secure, since everything you entered is visible right there on the screen and it gets stored in your list of visited sites. But, this type of query has advantages since it can also be bookmarked, copied and pasted into e-mail, etc. It is meant to be used to GET data from, for example, a search engine. You can they send that same query to your friends or to TheList by including the query string in the URL. * * I believe there are limitations to the amount of characters a Query String will handle, but this is also browser dependant. I think for I.E. its like 1000 characters.. I may be wrong though. * Using "get" to pass information sends the information appended to the request for the processing page. It tends to be simpler and you can troubleshoot any problems simply by looking at the address bar in your browser since all values passed are displayed there. This is also the primary weakness of this method. The data being passed is visible and is limited in size to the maximum length of a request string. POST hides all the data that is sent; none of it is visible on the screen after it is sent. Only slightly more secure, though, since the results are still transmitted in plain text. This type of query cannot be bookmarked, and is usually meant to POST data once for storage on the server, such as into a database application. A blog post or an online order form would be examples of this one-time submission. Using "post" to pass information sends the information embedded in a header during the request for the processing page. Its main advantage is that you can send larger amounts of information. It also doesn't make that information visible in the address bar of the browser, which is nice if you are using the "hidden" input type. The value of this type is still readily available to the user by using view source, but the average user won't see it or be confused by any information you may need to pass from your form for processing. So, ideally, you would decide which one to use based on what you were going to be doing with the data once the server receives it, if you want the results page to be bookmarked, and if you want the same data to be able to be passed around and easily resubmitted or not. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From lindsay at redsquare.com.au Wed Feb 20 18:03:00 2002 From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Strange client in log In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221002209.009e9ec0@mail.nota-bene.org> Message-ID: > In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; > Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". > > Any idea what this client may be? Just guessing, but I'd say that it is a spider for http://gogettem.nfis.com/ indexing your site. -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au From cvos at netpaths.net Wed Feb 20 18:04:00 2002 From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:04:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: content management systems References: <20020220231448.310B7C13E@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3C743979.3D54E75C@netpaths.net> Heres a good CMS application http://www.mamboserver.com/ -- Cayley Vos, Principal 360.714.8395 office 360.223.7799 cell http://allenlakeside.com ____________________________________________ From dan at danromanchik.com Wed Feb 20 18:19:01 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? References: <200202202243.g1KMhU8f020439@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <037401c1ba6d$66559190$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> The website is a very nice design, but has like no information at all about how the thing actually works or what it costs. Can you give us some information on what servers its runs on and how much it costs? Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "aardvark" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? > > From: matt newell > > > > i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class > > CMS systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully > > centering on implementation and general risk assessment. > biased: > http://quantumcms.com/ > > clearly i have interest in you digging that one... but if you have > questions about it or any of its implementation issues, gimme an > offlist holler.. From dan at danromanchik.com Wed Feb 20 18:28:01 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? References: Message-ID: <037901c1ba6e$a6ff6990$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> I've been using phpWebSite (phpwebsite.appstate.edu), and find it to be very easy to customize and use. I've even written a couple of simple plug-ins for it. I think it's a good choice if you're running on a shared server. About a year ago I looked at Midgard, too. If I remember correctly, one of the things that turned me away from it was that it required root access to install. Obviously, not something you're going to be able to do if you don't have your own server (or a very liberal ISP). I played around a little with Zope, too, when I converted an older computer (233 MHz Pentium, 64 MB RAM) to Linux and actually did have root access. I had high hopes for Zope (no pun intended), but it ran very slowly on my Linux box and the learning curve was very steep. I think if I had my own, relatively fast server to play with, I'd look into Cocoon, which is part of the Apache Project. It's XML-based, and because it's part of Apache, I'm sure there's plenty of support for it. Maybe some day.... Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Romanchik - FreeAgent Writer, Editor, and Web Developer dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Cunliffe" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:37 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] content management systems? > matt > > i'm looking right now also.. spent a lot of time fiddling with postnuke and > phpnuke but found that, for what i wanted, it would be a lot of time and > effort for little return also. i've been writing my own custom cms but i'd > like something more generic (which i currently don't have the time to > write!) > > i'd like to know if anyone has used http://www.midgard-project.org/ - and > how good it is, before diving in myself. it's php based and open source (my > favourite!). > > .:peace > rachel > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 18:53:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? In-Reply-To: <037401c1ba6d$66559190$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> Message-ID: <3C73FE67.19722.10B8B794@localhost> soitenly... right now the site is a new marketing tool we've built to support our face-to-face sales... it's still growing... pricing is at: http://quantumcms.com/document_107_24.html although i can see my sales guy hasn't updated the date on the price... but $25k for a full install... pretty full-featured, but instead of pasting in a full list of features and bugging everyone else, we can chat offlist about that stuff... runs on win2k/ASP box(en) with MS SQL as the datasource... uses XML/XSL for all the templates, so it can output to HTML, WML, and even print documents so the CMS can maintain content in more than one place... also looking at porting to PHP... there are also shared hosting options (http://quantumcms.com/document_171_24.html) that give you access to the tool, but save you the headache of hosting and the costs of the full license... let me know what other questions you have, and i'd be happy to expand on them here, offlist, and definitely on the web site... a demo is also available, but that's when a phone call comes in handy to walk you through it all... > From: "Dan Romanchik" > > The website is a very nice design, but has like no information at all > about how the thing actually works or what it costs. Can you give us > some information on what servers its runs on and how much it costs? > > > biased: > > http://quantumcms.com/ From matt at sweetillusions.org Wed Feb 20 19:16:01 2002 From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: currently we have a home-spun software pushing setup that's been patched and forced to handle the content flow for the rest of the site. we are at the point of deciding to invest more resources to developing what is currently available into a workable "real" CMS with the bells and whistles that one would expect or to go with a off the shelf solution. [now i'm off to catch up on the thread -- been knee deep in release issues today] // matt ps. there was a security release mentioned today about it being possible to hack phpnuke On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Rachel Cunliffe wrote: > matt > > i'm looking right now also.. spent a lot of time fiddling with postnuke and > phpnuke but found that, for what i wanted, it would be a lot of time and > effort for little return also. i've been writing my own custom cms but i'd > like something more generic (which i currently don't have the time to > write!) > > i'd like to know if anyone has used http://www.midgard-project.org/ - and > how good it is, before diving in myself. it's php based and open source (my > favourite!). > > .:peace > rachel > From jdowdell at macromedia.com Wed Feb 20 19:16:11 2002 From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:16:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: At 2:45 AM 2/20/2, sergio ribeiro wrote: > i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is > splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this > wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version... Sorry, that's right, the trial versions do work for a certain amount of time, and we currently can't reset them. Here's more info: http://www.macromedia.com/support/service/trial.html (At one time in the past Macromedia trial versions had a wrapper which could be reset, but the company which made the trial wrappers could no longer afford to stay in business, and the only trial software remaining cannot be reset like that.) It's great that you're interested in this field, and that you can also afford a computer and net access for your work. I'd second Veronica's suggestion of starting with a text editor... you wouldn't be able to do a lot, very quickly, but it's a great way to get established and start getting paying work to afford a more efficient toolset. (In my own case I had bought software before I could afford a computer, just so I could read the manuals in between practice times on someone else's machine... if you've got your own computer already, then you're ahead of where I was...! ;-) jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ From jdowdell at macromedia.com Wed Feb 20 19:38:01 2002 From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] software theft (was: dw4) Message-ID: > But the large software developing companies do not concern > about this bad thing (piracy).... Well, actually, we do care when our work is stolen. There's an entire group inside Macromedia which prosecutes such software theft. I know we don't catch all of it, particularly in parts of the world where a larger proportion of society is outside the legal marketplace, but as people and communities become more invested in the larger society the benefits of going legit become stronger. With recent layoffs through the tech field, it's really easy to want people who make money off our efforts to honestly compensate us for those efforts. Some of my friends who used to work here are without jobs now, and if.... Nothing personal here... Macromedia and other companies do prosecute theft-of-services, that's all. On a slight side topic, my personal opinion is that you'd have to be some type of idiot to load known-criminal executables on your own computer these days... making the assumption that some purveyor is evil enough to rip someone else off, but is so moral that they wouldn't install a trapdoor onto some program they slip you, just seems like a braindead assumption to make. That's my personal take, anyway, and it's obvious that some still believe it safe. > [My religion tells me] "Doubt is a very bad thing. Don't ever do it". Heh-heh, I find that funny... you can't *ever* doubt, even just a little? What would happen if you did? That reminds me of people who say you should always doubt everything, except their advice about doubting.... ;-) "Doubt usefully, and be smart and kind about it," that's closer to my own philosophy. But I'm getting even more off-topic..... Patrick Cooney offers a very readable intro to web services: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/webservices/ jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ From DavidGr at bsa.qld.gov.au Wed Feb 20 20:12:01 2002 From: DavidGr at bsa.qld.gov.au (David Greig) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? Message-ID: <1E6716803D15D511A18D0090279CF9E2E08AF4@bsaexchange.bsa.qld.gov.au> Hi Richard The reason you haven't been able to find drivers anywhere on the net is because Win2K already includes a driver for your card! So...point you at the drivers? Start->Settings->Control Panel->Add /Remove Hardware.... :) Regards Dave -----Original Message----- From: Richard Bennett [mailto:richard.b at gritechnologies.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 February 2002 1:27 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? I still have several S3Trio64V+ graphic cards lying around, but haven't been able to find any win2000 drivers for them. Can anyone confirm that they are simply not supported under win2000? (or better still, point me to the win2k drivers) Cheers, Richard. Do you also find it such a pain that Google always changes language for foreign browsers? To keep it in English, save a favorite as: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jmachado at mindspring.com Wed Feb 20 20:22:00 2002 From: jmachado at mindspring.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu�?= Figueira Machado) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220151800.01bdd6f0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220211821.01b34ac8@pop.mindspring.com> Jeff, At 12:54 PM 2/20/2002 -0800, .jeff chastised me thus: >if(newWindow.focus) > newWindow.focus(); Very good idea! >tsk, tsk >naughty javascripter. put down your toys, go directly to jail, and do *not* >collect $200. > >for good behavior (reading the article at the link below), we'll let you off >with time served. *grin* > >Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony >http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ Ok, so: your image and don't forget the alt text Do I still have to read the article? ;-) Thanks for the words of wisdom, Josu? From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 20:31:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220211821.01b34ac8@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: josu?, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Josu? Figueira Machado > > > for good behavior (reading the article at the link > > below), we'll let you off with time served. *grin* > > > > Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony > > http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ > > Ok, so: > > onclick="subWin('digitalio1.htm',500,375); > return false;" > >your image and don't forget the alt text ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< that's better, but still not quite there. the only thing you're missing is that you don't have to hardcode the link to the document in the function call. you can simply reference it with the "this" keyword and its "href" property: your image and don't forget the alt text now your maintenance is absolute minimum. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Do I still have to read the article? ;-) ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< of course. there's more you might learn from it. run along, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From seyon at delime.com Wed Feb 20 20:37:01 2002 From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020220222219.016fbb80@mail.delime.com> Hi guys, sorry if this is really vague... long week Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was of the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some proprietary IE feature. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Never remember the order for those CSS link pseudoclass styles? Link, Visited, Hover, Active. Think "LoVe/HAte" From jmachado at mindspring.com Wed Feb 20 20:46:00 2002 From: jmachado at mindspring.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu�?= Figueira Machado) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript help ascenddvd.com In-Reply-To: <3C743207.EC7B5DF2@netpaths.net> References: <20020220231448.310B7C13E@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220213835.01afdf80@pop.mindspring.com> Cayley, In your openWindow function call where you have "scrollbar", it should be "scrollbars". See if this works to remove the window positioning: function NewWindow(mypage, myname, w, h, scroll) { winprops = 'height='+h+',width='+w+',scrollbars='+scroll+',noresize' win = window.open(mypage, myname, winprops) if (parseInt(navigator.appVersion) >= 4) { win.window.focus(); } } Good luck, Josu? At 03:32 PM 2/20/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I have a popup problem on http://www.ascenddvd.com/rainier.php >clicking on the help image (lower left hand corner of the 3D mount >rainier map) brings up a popup. fine. however, in IE win there is no >scrollbar and there should be. > >also, on the same page, clicking on each of the routes brings up a popup >(different code) that centers a new window with a QTVR movie. I've >tried to remove the code that centers the window, but it is being >finicky. > > help! > >-- > > >Cayley Vos, Principal > >360.714.8395 office >360.223.7799 cell > >http://degagefurniture.com >____________________________________________ > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From lindsay at redsquare.com.au Wed Feb 20 20:48:01 2002 From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] javascript/fer why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > onclick="subWin(this.href, 500, 375); > return false;" > >your image and don't forget the alt text > > now your maintenance is absolute minimum. ... and if you put the "return false;" as the last line of your subWin function: function subWin(...){ ... return false; } then you only have to code this: your image and don't forget the alt text saving you 5 bytes each time you call the function :op -- Lindsay Evans (currently optimising a 200k Flash application). Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au From markgill at uwalumni.com Wed Feb 20 21:16:00 2002 From: markgill at uwalumni.com (Mark Gillingham) Date: Wed Feb 20 21:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Mail HTML Page In-Reply-To: <20020220115119.627A53AB9@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <62CEA61A-2679-11D6-9B2D-0030653D7320@uwalumni.com> Is there a good Perl, PHP, or JavaScript routine to mail a web page to an individual? Mark Gillingham markgill at uwalumni.com From kat at pemsea.org Wed Feb 20 21:16:08 2002 From: kat at pemsea.org (Kaye) Date: Wed Feb 20 21:16:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] pop up window in flash Message-ID: <200202201900.g1KJ08722178@server.pemsea.org> Hello everyone! I'm a newbie in flash and I'd appreciate any help from you guys. I need to have a scrolling text. Within the text, I need to have some words clickable. When this words are clicked, a small window (not a browser) will pop out which will contain the meaning of the word. Would really appreciate any help. Thanks. From lisa at koolfish.com Wed Feb 20 21:54:01 2002 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost) Date: Wed Feb 20 21:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: <000001c1ba8b$7efb8d80$0100a8c0@canthainet.com> "I can't believe this guy is using his history of somewhat naive and unintelligent posts to get away with trading pirated software on the list. Maurice" I think that was a bit harsh. He was not trading, his original post was an offer to help someone out. Yes it was totally wrong to offer what no doubt would have been pirated software, but I think he probably just did not think and thought he was doing the bloke a favour. I don't think it is fair to refer to his posts as unintelligent. Have you taken into consideration that he lives in Asia and communication by the written word often does not come out as intended, especially if you are new. Come and live in a developing country for a few years and you will see what I mean. Pirated software is everywhere here, there are even computer Malls specialising in it, it is second nature to a lot of people who earn peanuts (yes computer experts earn very little here) to use it when it means the difference of being able to make enough money to pay for rent and food or for further education. I think he did not realise when he made that offer that people on the list would have reacted so negatively (quite rightly, don't get the idea I advocate piracy) and I think a lot of you put your arguments against it well but I think the above statement was uncalled for. Scenario: While upgrading my firewall software last night, I made a mistake and it locked down *EVERY* interface, network and RAS. Not fun when you using remote admin software to control the server and don't have a keyboard / mouse hooked up to it. It was then that I noticed that if win2000 doesn't find a kb/mouse conntected to itself for too long, it disables the hardware in the Device Manager. This causes the hardware to appear missing even when they are existing and connected. Solution: Booting the PC in "Safe Mode" allowed me to disable the firewall software. It also allowed my to start the VNC server. From here, I was able to go back to my own PC and connect using VNC. This allowed me to enable my keyboard / mouse again. Moral to the story: Keep an eye on Win2000's device list. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From cshill00 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 22:12:00 2002 From: cshill00 at yahoo.com (Chris Hill) Date: Wed Feb 20 22:12:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020221041258.64797.qmail@web11606.mail.yahoo.com> Longtime lurker, first-time poster. My girlfriend recently took a job at a university where one of her responsibilities is to keep the office website updated. She has been told that she can only use FrontPage. (Yes she's asked why, and no they haven't told her.) My question is, for people who are wed to FrontPage for one reason or another, what can be done to make FP as good as possible. (i.e. so it doesn't keep adding all that extra code.) What specific options and preferences should be tweaked to keep FP code as lean as possible? Thanks in advance. Chris --- Chris George wrote: > I found out that if you just > don't use certain options > (like their built-in searches, and other weird CGI > crap), turn on the "My > host doesn't support FrontPage extensions" (even if > your host does) and a > few other dialogue-box tweaking the end result isn't > too bad - for a WYSIWYG app. ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca From tonys at netcomuk.co.uk Wed Feb 20 22:46:01 2002 From: tonys at netcomuk.co.uk (Tony Scott) Date: Wed Feb 20 22:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Text to HTML convertors Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221044246.00a9b720@popd.netcomuk.co.uk> Fellow Evolters Does anyone have recommedations for good text to HTML convertors that run on Windows? Tony From tmwall at micron.com Wed Feb 20 22:48:00 2002 From: tmwall at micron.com (tmwall) Date: Wed Feb 20 22:48:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? Message-ID: http://www.mauiatvadventures.com/photos.php -----Original Message----- From: Marc Seyon [mailto:seyon at delime.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:37 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? Hi guys, sorry if this is really vague... long week Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was of the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some proprietary IE feature. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Never remember the order for those CSS link pseudoclass styles? Link, Visited, Hover, Active. Think "LoVe/HAte" -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From danieljohnfrey at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 23:10:01 2002 From: danieljohnfrey at yahoo.com (Daniel Frey) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] pop up window in flash In-Reply-To: <200202201900.g1KJ08722178@server.pemsea.org> Message-ID: <000001c1ba96$2c1997a0$0b00a8c0@frey.local> Hi Kaye, The good news is that it sounds like your task shouldn't be too complicated. It will definitely be a great learning experience. There's a few things that will make your job easier: 1) You're storing all of your data in an easily accessable data source, like a text file (HTML tags are fine - I know Flash 5 integrates with XML, but I don't know much about how the two interact). Better still if all of the data is in the .swf, but I wouldn't cram too much in. 2) You plan on only having one pseudo-window. If its position is static, even better. Moock.org has a good tutorial for a scrolling text box, as well as a slew of actionscripting tutorials. If you need any actionscript help, I can offer what knowledge I have - feel free to mail me off-list. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Kaye Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:21 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] pop up window in flash Hello everyone! I'm a newbie in flash and I'd appreciate any help from you guys. I need to have a scrolling text. Within the text, I need to have some words clickable. When this words are clicked, a small window (not a browser) will pop out which will contain the meaning of the word. Would really appreciate any help. Thanks. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 23:34:01 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email alterations References: Message-ID: <3C74885A.5060904@members.evolt.org> Hey Michael - Thanks for the compliments, glad you're liking it :) Stripping out the junk and rewriting the entire message(earlier this week a content-type rewriting problem that i missed popped up for example) is difficult. There are a lot of content-transfer-encoding/content-type combos to be dealt with, but it's all in the rfc's I guess :) It's actually *not* very resource hungry. If you'll endulge me for a moment, we'll examine the lifecycle of an html formatted email going to thelist.. When an incoming email gets to lists.evolt.org, sendmail checks its alias file for 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' and see's a program name instead of an email address, and passes the message to the program. The program is a little python script that does some low level checking for things like the correct 'to:' address, make sure its not addressed to too many people(spam counter), and things of that nature. If it doesn't like what it sees, it passes it to another program that sends it to thelist-admin(me). Assuming everything is kosher to that little checking script, it writes the file to a queue for the mailing list manager(MLM). The MLM checks that queue every second for a new entry, and when it finds one, it loads the email file into memory, and does some more checking to make sure it's a plain text email. If it's not, a number of re-writes happen to the message so it becomes plain text, and any attachment are stripped. Either way, it comes out squeky clean and ready for delivery. Anyone remember the "I'm just a Bill" cartoon they used to play on Saturday mornings here in the US that chronicled the lifecycle of a US law? That was great... :) So, once we have a nice clean email, a copy gets appended to the digest file that will get sent out at the end of the day for the folks that are on the digest. For the rest of us, list specific helpful headers for list management are written into the header, a quip file that contains a couple hundred x-evolt header lines is opened, one is selected at random and put in to the x-evolt: header line. A copy of the message is also written to the archives in the correct thread. The MLM then polls the list DB(berkeley style) for people who get every message individually, pipes their email addresses into the To: in the header and shoots them off in chunks of 100 to one of the three relay.evolt.org servers that run Postgres. whew. Whichever one of the three that gets to deliver the message to you sends the complete email to your SMTP server. If it bounces for whatever reason, it gets shot back to another python script that does some automatic checking(e.g. if this email bounces more than 5 times in 24 hours, unsubscribe that person), and then sent back to me. Thats just one email :) For thelist alone, thats almost 100 incoming(3000 outgoing) emails a day. Throw in the other evolt lists, and its about 5000 a day. Time from when it hits lists.evolt.org to the time it leaves one of the relay servers: 45-60 seconds total(half of that being queuing). So, to answer your question, it's not server hungry at all.. Glad you asked? :) In the same way that multi-part messages are stripped clean, I'm working on something similar that will strip footers, but thats a bit more difficult. If it's not totally apparent, I love talking about this stuff, so shoot me any other questions if you have them :) .djc. Michael Pemberton wrote: > I am amazed to see how many new features have come to be added to > thelist in > recent times. Great work guys. > > I see that it is now possible to strip the txt/plain part out of a mime > formated message. How hard / server hungry is this kind of thing? I was > wondering, is it also possible to strip out the thelist footer and other > such footers (hotmail / yahoo for example). > > As someone who is limited to using hotmail at work, I understand the > annoyances of having this appear at the end of each of my posts. From martin at takingitglobal.org Wed Feb 20 23:41:04 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:41:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT: cybercafe-style computer login/management system w/ print quota... Message-ID: <000201c1ba9a$402c4ea0$6501a8c0@martinlaptop> I apologise for posting OT here... Couldn`t think of anywhere else to ask... The organisation I work with is looking at completely re-equipping the computer lab we run with new computers. One of the things we would like to do, as we are running it for a host organisation, would be to have some form of print quota system enabled... Have a default number of pages printable per day/week/whatever... With the option of purchasing/being awarded extra credits as necessary. Ideally, something along the lines of the cybercafe-style software setup... With a customisable login screen, etc. would be ideal, as we would be hoping to replicate this setup in multiple locations worldwide in the not-too-distant future. O, and they'll be running XP [tho that'll prolly not make a diff.] Anyway, I'd be very glad to get some input/ideas/thoughts/suggestions as to routes to take, or specific software to look at. Thanks, -martin Regular [weekly] staff meetings are a gem in the crown of any successful team-oriented environment. Devoting that one or two hours a week on a specific day can make the difference between low staff morale [leading to high turnover] and successful completion of projects, as tasks, needs, and availabilities can be co-ordinated at them. They also are really handy when trying to deal with burn-out, as you're able to get everyone up to speed on where you are at personally and professionally... Plus, if done well, they can be fun -> bring in a game, buy some lego... Get people to relax, and life in the office will improve exponentially. From kichigai at jointhe.net Wed Feb 20 23:48:01 2002 From: kichigai at jointhe.net (Dayn Riegel @ NYAD, Inc.) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Content Management Systems In-Reply-To: <20020221053757.D78963C20@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221004433.0454dd30@mail.jointhe.net> One of my favorite companies and services -- Atomz.com -- has a really nice, albeit pricey CMS service. It's still in infant stage however from what I've seen other do w/ it so far it will continue to grow. You also can't beat their Search tool. Sure, sure, there are cheaper options and other companies -- believe me, over the past few years I've tried many! I am merely stating an "IMHO" here -- so take it for what it is worth and do your own research and investigation. I make no money from them and have even negotiated the sale of the service for my bigger clients and not made a single dime from the sale. http://www.atomz.com or, more directly: http://www.atomz.com/publish/ -_- D. At 00:37 2/21/2002, you wrote: >Send thelist mailing list submissions to > thelist at lists.evolt.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist > >You can reach the person managing the list at > thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of thelist digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: coding specifically for Australian market (Paul Cowan) > 2. RE: Front Page - does it suck? (Dulcie Meatheringham) > 3. RE: TIP - Event Bubbling in BRIO 6.5 (Luther, Ron) > 4. javascript help ascenddvd.com (Cayley Vos) > 5. RE: Remove break after H# tags (Jon Haworth) > 6. Strange client in log (s t e f) > 7. Re: Strange client in log (Kevin D. White) > 8. RE: GET vs. POST (Jim Davis) > 9. RE: Strange client in log (Lindsay Evans) > 10. Re: content management systems (Cayley Vos) > 11. Re: content management systems? (Dan Romanchik) > 12. Re: content management systems? (Dan Romanchik) > 13. Re: content management systems? (aardvark) > 14. RE: content management systems? (matt newell) > 15. Re: dreamweaver 4 (John Dowdell) > 16. Re: software theft (was: dw4) (John Dowdell) > 17. RE: OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? (David Greig) > 18. RE: javascript/fer why? (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu??= Figueira Machado) > 19. RE: javascript/fer why? (.jeff) > 20. anyone remember this cool image effect? (Marc Seyon) > 21. Re: javascript help ascenddvd.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu??= Figueira > Machado) > 22. RE: javascript/fer why? (Lindsay Evans) > 23. Mail HTML Page (Mark Gillingham) > 24. pop up window in flash (Kaye) > 25. Re: dreamweaver 4 (Lisa Frost) > 26. RE: OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? (Michael > Pemberton) > 27. Email alterations (Michael Pemberton) > 28. Re: Front Page - does it suck? (Chris Hill) > 29. Text to HTML convertors (Tony Scott) > 30. RE: anyone remember this cool image effect? (tmwall) > 31. RE: pop up window in flash (Daniel Frey) > 32. Re: Email alterations (Daniel J. Cody) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: Paul Cowan >To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" >Subject: RE: [thelist] coding specifically for Australian market >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:03:10 +1100 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hey nate, > > > For example, I think I heard somewhere that a bigger % of Australian users > > use Netscape than do so globally. (It's about 12% global, but I thought it > > was closer to 17% down under.) > >I can only speak for the site for which I work (if not Australia's >biggest online general-purpose retailer, then close to it). Obviously >our demographic may be substantially different to yours (e.g. corporations >which lock down browser versions on their desktops are probably likely >to frown on people shopping online during work hours), but it's >probably about as close to a cross-section of the Aussie browser >population as you can get... unless Isaac or someone can provide a >bit more variety of stats. > >Anyway, we're currently tracking at about 91% IE, 5% netscape, and >the rest proxy servers etc. Opera and WebTV are present, if >statistically insignificant. > >In IE, IE 5 vs. IE 6 is split about 70-25; In Netscape, Netsape 4 >vs. Netscape 6 is about 83-13. > > > Another example (that doesn't specifically apply to Au): When coding for > > Asian markets, it's important to fully use CSS, because font tags aren't > > supported by Asian (double-byte) browsers. > >No idea about that... but bear in mind that Australia has an >extremely high proportions of Asian-born residents... so if this is >true, a lot of Australians (English-speaking or no) will be using >such browsers. > >In fact, it might pay to bear in mind that Australia has a VERY varied >mix of ethnicities... as just an example, my hometown, Melbourne, has more >Greek people living in it that any other city in the world except Athens. >Not sure how useful that is to know -- but an interesting fact, anyway! > > > I'm sure there can't be too many differences, but since I'm serving a > > known, specific geographic audience, I'd like to do whatever > > I can to make it as good and appropriate as possible. > >It IS worth considering that broadband takeup in Australia is very >low -- largely because of the ridiculous expense. Connections to the >outside world can be flaky too -- so be careful where the site is hosted, >and go easy on the bandwidth. > >Hope this helps! > >Cheers, > >Paul > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >From: "Dulcie Meatheringham" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:08:07 -0700 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Janet wrote: > > > >>>I would probably refuse a project where I had to develop for > > FP from scratch.<<< > > > > I think we should *all* go out and build a three-page site using > > FP2000, and report back here in a week to compile the "offical > > Front Page suck quotient." Might give us all some ammunition to > > share with clients who are considering it as a tool. > > > > ;) only partially kidding. > >How about 300 or 500 page sites: > >http://www.albertaheritage.net > >http://collections.ic.gc.ca/alberta > >http://collections.ic.gc.ca/pasttopresent > >http://collections.ic.gc.ca/abnature > >These were all built with Front Page 2000, the last 3 in the list by >interns. Front Page gives you easy access to the source code, and is >excellent for site management and provides lots of information on your site >(reports, etc.) and a wicked Search and Replace function. If people are >familiar with MS Word, then FP won't be too intimidating. Even our research >interns are able to edit and update with Front Page. > >I like it. I only used Dreamweaver once, and found myself feeling blind >because I couldn't see what was happening, and the source code was only >available in a tiny window. I'd like to try it (and Homesite) some more. > >Downsides: can't customize it to use instead of , etc. >Upsides: can customize it to whatever level of browser support you like, >page load times and connection speed, etc., can configure editors for .css >files, and for image files. > >I imagine it won't seem very impressive if you're used to the way you build >sites with another tool, but it's completely suitable for our purposes. > >Dulcie. >-- >Dulcie Meatheringham, Web Projects Coordinator >dulcie at heritagecommunityfdn.org (780) 424-6512, x227 >http://www.heritagecommunityfdn.org >Heritage Community Foundation > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >Subject: RE: [thelist] TIP - Event Bubbling in BRIO 6.5 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:20:35 -0600 >From: "Luther, Ron" >To: >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hi Janet, > > >Golly! Somebody else who has used Brio!? > >Hmmm ... I think 'event bubbling' may be best described through an >example: > >[Gosh - I hope I don't screw this up!] ;-) > >Think of the "Container Model" for a moment, (that silly little thing >that lets 'contained' items inherit CSS properties from 'higher level' >entities). Let's say, for example, that you define an "OnClick" event >for a paragraph "

" element and that you define another "OnClick" >event for a bold "" element. > >'Event Bubbling' is the term given to the situation where your user >clicks on the bold element, (thus firing the bold's "OnClick"), and the >event "bubbles up" and fires the paragraph's "OnClick" event, (because >the paragraph 'contains' the bold element), without any additional >action by the user. > >Here's a better write-up [with clickable examples](and where I stole the >

and example!): >http://www.webreference.com/js/tips/000131.html > > >Here's a step-by-step report you can build in Brio to see what I'm >complaining about in that product: > >http://www.fangsnclaws.com/Brio/brio_tip7.html > > >'zat help any? > >RonL. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Janet Nabring-Stager [mailto:jnabring at yahoo.com] > >Okay, so I'm clueless, but what is 'bubbling?' I've used this tool >before, but not extensively... > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:32:24 -0800 >From: Cayley Vos >Organization: NetPaths.net >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] javascript help ascenddvd.com >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >I have a popup problem on http://www.ascenddvd.com/rainier.php >clicking on the help image (lower left hand corner of the 3D mount >rainier map) brings up a popup. fine. however, in IE win there is no >scrollbar and there should be. > >also, on the same page, clicking on each of the routes brings up a popup >(different code) that centers a new window with a QTVR movie. I've >tried to remove the code that centers the window, but it is being >finicky. > > help! > >-- > > >Cayley Vos, Principal > >360.714.8395 office >360.223.7799 cell > >http://degagefurniture.com >____________________________________________ > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >From: Jon Haworth >To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" >Subject: RE: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:07:14 -0000 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > How would I go about removing the line break automatically > > > inserted after a H# level element using CSS? > > > The most xbrowser way is to not use any of the Header tags > > and just create CSS classes that have the same appearance. > >Unfortunately that's not a very cross-search-engine way of doing this >(leaving aside the examples of people with a custom stylesheet, people using >Lynx, etc) > >Cheers >Jon > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:22:47 +0100 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: s t e f >Subject: [thelist] Strange client in log >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hi all > >In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; >Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". > >Any idea what this client may be? > >s t e f > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >From: "Kevin D. White" >To: >Subject: Re: [thelist] Strange client in log >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:56:44 -0700 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Probably some one from nfis.com is running the Webinator indexer on >your site. > >http://www.thunderstone.com/texis/site/pages/webinator.html > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: "s t e f" > > In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; > > Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". > > >Any idea what this client may be? > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use > >iQA/AwUBPHQ3uakcrjXY5do7EQJx9wCbBMcw2AQvdICRvWFgmDyEwXyll8sAnjI/ >U88JwPtArmO9LIo39ZYQPcev >=V1vs >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 8 >From: "Jim Davis" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] GET vs. POST >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:01:17 -0500 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Comments Inline > >-----Original Message----- >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On >Behalf Of Scott Schrantz >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:58 PM >To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' >Subject: RE: [thelist] GET vs. POST > >* -----Original Message----- > > From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov] > > > > When creating forms we have an option to use GET or POST > > methods. I was > > wondering if there are any specific reasons that people use > > GET or POST or > > if it is just a matter of preference. Are there any > > tradeoffs between the > > two? Are there any differences with how the back button will > > work? Are there any other issues? > >Off the top of my head: >GET puts all the results into the query string. This makes the submission a >little less secure, since everything you entered is visible right there on >the screen and it gets stored in your list of visited sites. But, this type >of query has advantages since it can also be bookmarked, copied and pasted >into e-mail, etc. It is meant to be used to GET data from, for example, a >search engine. You can they send that same query to your friends or to >TheList by including the query string in the URL. >* >* I believe there are limitations to the amount of characters a Query String >will handle, but this is also browser dependant. I think for I.E. its like >1000 characters.. I may be wrong though. >* Using "get" to pass information sends the information appended to the >request for the processing page. It tends to be simpler and you can >troubleshoot any problems simply by looking at the address bar in your >browser since all values passed are displayed there. This is also the >primary weakness of this method. The data being passed is visible and is >limited in size to the maximum length of a request string. > >POST hides all the data that is sent; none of it is visible on the screen >after it is sent. Only slightly more secure, though, since the results are >still transmitted in plain text. This type of query cannot be bookmarked, >and is usually meant to POST data once for storage on the server, such as >into a database application. A blog post or an online order form would be >examples of this one-time submission. >Using "post" to pass information sends the information embedded in a header >during the request for the processing page. Its main advantage is that you >can send larger amounts of information. It also doesn't make that >information visible in the address bar of the browser, which is nice if you >are using the "hidden" input type. The value of this type is still readily >available to the user by using view source, but the average user won't see >it or be confused by any information you may need to pass from your form for >processing. > > >So, ideally, you would decide which one to use based on what you were going >to be doing with the data once the server receives it, if you want the >results page to be bookmarked, and if you want the same data to be able to >be passed around and easily resubmitted or not. >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 9 >From: "Lindsay Evans" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] Strange client in log >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:04:59 +1100 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > In my web logs I just found "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; > > Webinator-gogettem.nfis.com/2.52)". > > > > Any idea what this client may be? > >Just guessing, but I'd say that it is a spider for http://gogettem.nfis.com/ >indexing your site. > >-- > Lindsay Evans. > Developer, > Red Square Productions. > > [p] 8596.4000 > [f] 8596.4001 > [w] www.redsquare.com.au > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:04:09 -0800 >From: Cayley Vos >Organization: NetPaths.net >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] Re: content management systems >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Heres a good CMS application > >http://www.mamboserver.com/ >-- > > >Cayley Vos, Principal > >360.714.8395 office >360.223.7799 cell > >http://allenlakeside.com >____________________________________________ > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 11 >From: "Dan Romanchik" >To: >Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:19:16 -0500 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >The website is a very nice design, but has like no information at all about >how the thing actually works or what it costs. Can you give us some >information on what servers its runs on and how much it costs? > >Dan > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "aardvark" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:44 PM >Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? > > > > > From: matt newell > > > > > > i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class > > > CMS systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully > > > centering on implementation and general risk assessment. > > > > biased: > > http://quantumcms.com/ > > > > clearly i have interest in you digging that one... but if you have > > questions about it or any of its implementation issues, gimme an > > offlist holler.. > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 12 >From: "Dan Romanchik" >To: >Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:28:14 -0500 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >I've been using phpWebSite (phpwebsite.appstate.edu), and find it to be very >easy to customize and use. I've even written a couple of simple plug-ins for >it. I think it's a good choice if you're running on a shared server. > >About a year ago I looked at Midgard, too. If I remember correctly, one of >the things that turned me away from it was that it required root access to >install. Obviously, not something you're going to be able to do if you don't >have your own server (or a very liberal ISP). > >I played around a little with Zope, too, when I converted an older computer >(233 MHz Pentium, 64 MB RAM) to Linux and actually did have root access. I >had high hopes for Zope (no pun intended), but it ran very slowly on my >Linux box and the learning curve was very steep. > >I think if I had my own, relatively fast server to play with, I'd look into >Cocoon, which is part of the Apache Project. It's XML-based, and because >it's part of Apache, I'm sure there's plenty of support for it. > >Maybe some day.... > >Dan >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dan Romanchik - FreeAgent Writer, Editor, and Web Developer >dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rachel Cunliffe" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:37 PM >Subject: RE: [thelist] content management systems? > > > > matt > > > > i'm looking right now also.. spent a lot of time fiddling with postnuke >and > > phpnuke but found that, for what i wanted, it would be a lot of time and > > effort for little return also. i've been writing my own custom cms but i'd > > like something more generic (which i currently don't have the time to > > write!) > > > > i'd like to know if anyone has used http://www.midgard-project.org/ - and > > how good it is, before diving in myself. it's php based and open source >(my > > favourite!). > > > > .:peace > > rachel > > > > -- > > For unsubscribe and other options, including > > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 13 >From: "aardvark" >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:52:07 -0500 >Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >soitenly... > >right now the site is a new marketing tool we've built to support our >face-to-face sales... it's still growing... > >pricing is at: >http://quantumcms.com/document_107_24.html > >although i can see my sales guy hasn't updated the date on the >price... but $25k for a full install... pretty full-featured, but instead >of pasting in a full list of features and bugging everyone else, we >can chat offlist about that stuff... > >runs on win2k/ASP box(en) with MS SQL as the datasource... >uses XML/XSL for all the templates, so it can output to HTML, >WML, and even print documents so the CMS can maintain content >in more than one place... also looking at porting to PHP... > >there are also shared hosting options >(http://quantumcms.com/document_171_24.html) that give you >access to the tool, but save you the headache of hosting and the >costs of the full license... > >let me know what other questions you have, and i'd be happy to >expand on them here, offlist, and definitely on the web site... > >a demo is also available, but that's when a phone call comes in >handy to walk you through it all... > > > From: "Dan Romanchik" > > > > The website is a very nice design, but has like no information at all > > about how the thing actually works or what it costs. Can you give us > > some information on what servers its runs on and how much it costs? > > > > > biased: > > > http://quantumcms.com/ > >--__--__-- > >Message: 14 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:15:56 -0800 (PST) >From: matt newell >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] content management systems? >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >currently we have a home-spun software pushing setup that's been patched >and forced to handle the content flow for the rest of the site. we are at >the point of deciding to invest more resources to developing what is >currently available into a workable "real" CMS with the bells and whistles >that one would expect or to go with a off the shelf solution. > >[now i'm off to catch up on the thread -- been knee deep in release >issues today] > >// matt > >ps. there was a security release mentioned today about it being possible >to hack phpnuke > > >On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Rachel Cunliffe wrote: > > > matt > > > > i'm looking right now also.. spent a lot of time fiddling with postnuke and > > phpnuke but found that, for what i wanted, it would be a lot of time and > > effort for little return also. i've been writing my own custom cms but i'd > > like something more generic (which i currently don't have the time to > > write!) > > > > i'd like to know if anyone has used http://www.midgard-project.org/ - and > > how good it is, before diving in myself. it's php based and open source (my > > favourite!). > > > > .:peace > > rachel > > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 15 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:18:47 -0800 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) >Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >At 2:45 AM 2/20/2, sergio ribeiro wrote: > > i started with a trial downloaded version and because the program is > > splendid i started to buy a few books last week, for my suprise this > > wek the program expired and i am not aloud to run the trial version... > >Sorry, that's right, the trial versions do work for a certain amount of >time, and we currently can't reset them. Here's more info: >http://www.macromedia.com/support/service/trial.html > >(At one time in the past Macromedia trial versions had a wrapper which >could be reset, but the company which made the trial wrappers could no >longer afford to stay in business, and the only trial software remaining >cannot be reset like that.) > >It's great that you're interested in this field, and that you can also >afford a computer and net access for your work. I'd second Veronica's >suggestion of starting with a text editor... you wouldn't be able to do a >lot, very quickly, but it's a great way to get established and start >getting paying work to afford a more efficient toolset. > >(In my own case I had bought software before I could afford a computer, >just so I could read the manuals in between practice times on someone >else's machine... if you've got your own computer already, then you're >ahead of where I was...! ;-) > >jd > > > > > > > >John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US >Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ >Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your >email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are >available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 16 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:41:08 -0800 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) >Subject: Re: [thelist] software theft (was: dw4) >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > But the large software developing companies do not concern > > about this bad thing (piracy).... > >Well, actually, we do care when our work is stolen. There's an entire group >inside Macromedia which prosecutes such software theft. I know we don't >catch all of it, particularly in parts of the world where a larger >proportion of society is outside the legal marketplace, but as people and >communities become more invested in the larger society the benefits of >going legit become stronger. > >With recent layoffs through the tech field, it's really easy to want people >who make money off our efforts to honestly compensate us for those efforts. >Some of my friends who used to work here are without jobs now, and if.... > >Nothing personal here... Macromedia and other companies do prosecute >theft-of-services, that's all. > > >On a slight side topic, my personal opinion is that you'd have to be some >type of idiot to load known-criminal executables on your own computer these >days... making the assumption that some purveyor is evil enough to rip >someone else off, but is so moral that they wouldn't install a trapdoor >onto some program they slip you, just seems like a braindead assumption to >make. That's my personal take, anyway, and it's obvious that some still >believe it safe. > > > > [My religion tells me] "Doubt is a very bad thing. Don't ever do it". > >Heh-heh, I find that funny... you can't *ever* doubt, even just a little? >What would happen if you did? > >That reminds me of people who say you should always doubt everything, >except their advice about doubting.... ;-) > >"Doubt usefully, and be smart and kind about it," that's closer to my own >philosophy. But I'm getting even more off-topic..... > > > > Patrick Cooney offers a very readable intro to web services: > http://www.alistapart.com/stories/webservices/ > > > >jd > > > > > >John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US >Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ >Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your >email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are >available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 17 >From: David Greig >To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" , > "'richard.b at gritechnologies.com'" >Subject: RE: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:10:10 +1000 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hi Richard > >The reason you haven't been able to find drivers anywhere on the net is >because Win2K already includes a driver for your card! So...point you at >the drivers? Start->Settings->Control Panel->Add /Remove Hardware.... :) > >Regards >Dave > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Bennett [mailto:richard.b at gritechnologies.com] >Sent: Thursday, 21 February 2002 1:27 AM >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? > > >I still have several S3Trio64V+ graphic cards lying around, but haven't been >able to find any win2000 drivers for them. >Can anyone confirm that they are simply not supported under win2000? >(or better still, point me to the win2k drivers) > >Cheers, >Richard. > > > >Do you also find it such a pain that Google always changes language for >foreign browsers? > >To keep it in English, save a favorite as: > >http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en > > > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > >--__--__-- > >Message: 18 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:24:29 -0500 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org, >From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu??= Figueira Machado >Subject: RE: [thelist] javascript/fer why? >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Jeff, > >At 12:54 PM 2/20/2002 -0800, .jeff chastised me thus: > > >if(newWindow.focus) > > newWindow.focus(); > >Very good idea! > > >tsk, tsk > >naughty javascripter. put down your toys, go directly to jail, and do *not* > >collect $200. > > > >for good behavior (reading the article at the link below), we'll let you off > >with time served. *grin* > > > >Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony > >http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ > >Ok, so: > >your image and don't forget the alt text > >Do I still have to read the article? ;-) > >Thanks for the words of wisdom, > >Josu? > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 19 >From: ".jeff" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] javascript/fer why? >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:32:45 -0800 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >josu?, > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > From: Josu? Figueira Machado > > > > > for good behavior (reading the article at the link > > > below), we'll let you off with time served. *grin* > > > > > > Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony > > > http://evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/ > > > > Ok, so: > > > > > onclick="subWin('digitalio1.htm',500,375); > > return false;" > > >your image and don't forget the alt text > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > >that's better, but still not quite there. the only thing you're missing is >that you don't have to hardcode the link to the document in the function >call. you can simply reference it with the "this" keyword and its "href" >property: > > onclick="subWin(this.href, 500, 375); > return false;" > >your image and don't forget the alt text > >now your maintenance is absolute minimum. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > Do I still have to read the article? ;-) > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > >of course. there's more you might learn from it. > >run along, > >.jeff > >http://evolt.org/ >jeff at members.evolt.org >http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 20 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:37:15 -0400 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: Marc Seyon >Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hi guys, sorry if this is really vague... long week > >Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some >thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was of >the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some proprietary >IE feature. > >Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? > > >Never remember the order for those CSS link pseudoclass styles? >Link, Visited, Hover, Active. >Think "LoVe/HAte" > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 21 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:48:33 -0500 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Josu??= Figueira Machado >Subject: Re: [thelist] javascript help ascenddvd.com >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Cayley, > >In your openWindow function call where you have "scrollbar", it should be >"scrollbars". > >See if this works to remove the window positioning: > >function NewWindow(mypage, myname, w, h, scroll) { > winprops = 'height='+h+',width='+w+',scrollbars='+scroll+',noresize' > win = window.open(mypage, myname, winprops) > if (parseInt(navigator.appVersion) >= 4) { win.window.focus(); } >} > >Good luck, > >Josu? > >At 03:32 PM 2/20/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >I have a popup problem on http://www.ascenddvd.com/rainier.php > >clicking on the help image (lower left hand corner of the 3D mount > >rainier map) brings up a popup. fine. however, in IE win there is no > >scrollbar and there should be. > > > >also, on the same page, clicking on each of the routes brings up a popup > >(different code) that centers a new window with a QTVR movie. I've > >tried to remove the code that centers the window, but it is being > >finicky. > > > > help! > > > >-- > > > > > >Cayley Vos, Principal > > > >360.714.8395 office > >360.223.7799 cell > > > >http://degagefurniture.com > >____________________________________________ > > > >-- > >For unsubscribe and other options, including > >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 22 >From: "Lindsay Evans" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] javascript/fer why? >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:50:50 +1100 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > > > > onclick="subWin(this.href, 500, 375); > > return false;" > > >your image and don't forget the alt text > > > > now your maintenance is absolute minimum. > >... and if you put the "return false;" as the last line of your subWin >function: > >function subWin(...){ > ... > return false; >} > >then you only have to code this: > > onclick="return subWin(this.href, 500, 375);" > >your image and don't forget the alt text > >saving you 5 bytes each time you call the function :op > >-- > Lindsay Evans (currently optimising a 200k Flash application). > Developer, > Red Square Productions. > > [p] 8596.4000 > [f] 8596.4001 > [w] www.redsquare.com.au > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 23 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:16:24 -0600 >From: Mark Gillingham >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] Mail HTML Page >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Is there a good Perl, PHP, or JavaScript routine to mail a web page to >an individual? > >Mark Gillingham >markgill at uwalumni.com > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 24 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:20:58 +0800 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: Kaye >Subject: [thelist] pop up window in flash >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >Hello everyone! I'm a newbie in flash and I'd appreciate any help >from you guys. > >I need to have a scrolling text. Within the text, I need to have some >words clickable. When this words are clicked, a small window (not a >browser) will pop out which will contain the meaning of the word. > >Would really appreciate any help. Thanks. > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 25 >From: "Lisa Frost" >To: "the list" >Subject: Re: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:54:40 +0700 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >"I can't believe this guy is using his history of somewhat naive and >unintelligent posts to get away with trading pirated software on the >list. > >Maurice" > >I think that was a bit harsh. >He was not trading, his original post was an offer to help someone out. >Yes it was totally wrong to offer what no doubt would have been pirated >software, but I think he probably just did not think and thought he was >doing the bloke a favour. > >I don't think it is fair to refer to his posts as unintelligent. Have >you taken into consideration that he lives in Asia and communication by >the written word often does not come out as intended, especially if you >are new. Come and live in a developing country for a few years and you >will see what I mean. Pirated software is everywhere here, there are >even computer Malls specialising in it, it is second nature to a lot of >people who earn peanuts (yes computer experts earn very little here) to >use it when it means the difference of being able to make enough money >to pay for rent and food or for further education. I think he did not >realise when he made that offer that people on the list would have >reacted so negatively (quite rightly, don't get the idea I advocate >piracy) and I think a lot of you put your arguments against it well but >I think the above statement was uncalled for. > > >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: RE: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:53:37 +1100 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > >From memory, when I was building my server @ home, I had to co a bit of >searching to get hold of Trio64 drivers. > >Richard, if you see me online some time, give me a yell. I'll try work >through what I did and how I got it to work. > > >From: David Greig > >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:10:10 +1000 > > > >Hi Richard > > > >The reason you haven't been able to find drivers anywhere on the net is > >because Win2K already includes a driver for your card! So...point you at > >the drivers? Start->Settings->Control Panel->Add /Remove Hardware.... :) > > > >Regards > >Dave > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 27 >From: "Michael Pemberton" >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:08:46 +1100 >Subject: [thelist] Email alterations >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >I am amazed to see how many new features have come to be added to thelist in >recent times. Great work guys. > >I see that it is now possible to strip the txt/plain part out of a mime >formated message. How hard / server hungry is this kind of thing? I was >wondering, is it also possible to strip out the thelist footer and other >such footers (hotmail / yahoo for example). > >As someone who is limited to using hotmail at work, I understand the >annoyances of having this appear at the end of each of my posts. > > >Scenario: > >While upgrading my firewall software last night, I made a mistake and it >locked down *EVERY* interface, network and RAS. > >Not fun when you using remote admin software to control the server and don't >have a keyboard / mouse hooked up to it. > >It was then that I noticed that if win2000 doesn't find a kb/mouse >conntected to itself for too long, it disables the hardware in the Device >Manager. > >This causes the hardware to appear missing even when they are existing and >connected. > >Solution: > >Booting the PC in "Safe Mode" allowed me to disable the firewall software. >It also allowed my to start the VNC server. From here, I was able to go >back to my own PC and connect using VNC. This allowed me to enable my >keyboard / mouse again. > >Moral to the story: > >Keep an eye on Win2000's device list. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 28 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:12:58 -0500 (EST) >From: Chris Hill >Subject: Re: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Longtime lurker, first-time poster. > >My girlfriend recently took a job at a university >where one of her responsibilities is to keep the >office website updated. She has been told that she >can only use FrontPage. (Yes she's asked why, and no >they haven't told her.) > >My question is, for people who are wed to FrontPage >for one reason or another, what can be done to make FP >as good as possible. (i.e. so it doesn't keep adding >all that extra code.) > >What specific options and preferences should be >tweaked to keep FP code as lean as possible? Thanks >in advance. > >Chris > >--- Chris George wrote: > > I found out that if you just > > don't use certain options > > (like their built-in searches, and other weird CGI > > crap), turn on the "My > > host doesn't support FrontPage extensions" (even if > > your host does) and a > > few other dialogue-box tweaking the end result isn't > > too bad - for a WYSIWYG app. > >______________________________________________________________________ >Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca > >--__--__-- > >Message: 29 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:44:17 +0000 >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >From: Tony Scott >Subject: [thelist] Text to HTML convertors >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Fellow Evolters > >Does anyone have recommedations for good text to HTML convertors that run >on Windows? > >Tony > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 30 >From: tmwall >To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" >Subject: RE: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:48:39 -0700 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >http://www.mauiatvadventures.com/photos.php > >-----Original Message----- >From: Marc Seyon [mailto:seyon at delime.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:37 PM >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? > > >Hi guys, sorry if this is really vague... long week > >Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some >thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was of >the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some proprietary >IE feature. > >Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? > > >Never remember the order for those CSS link pseudoclass styles? >Link, Visited, Hover, Active. >Think "LoVe/HAte" > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > >--__--__-- > >Message: 31 >From: "Daniel Frey" >To: >Subject: RE: [thelist] pop up window in flash >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:11:07 -0500 >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hi Kaye, > >The good news is that it sounds like your task shouldn't be too >complicated. It will definitely be a great learning experience. > >There's a few things that will make your job easier: > >1) You're storing all of your data in an easily accessable data source, >like a text file (HTML tags are fine - I know Flash 5 integrates with >XML, but I don't know much about how the two interact). Better still if >all of the data is in the .swf, but I wouldn't cram too much in. > >2) You plan on only having one pseudo-window. If its position is >static, even better. > >Moock.org has a good tutorial for a scrolling text box, as well as a >slew of actionscripting tutorials. If you need any actionscript help, I >can offer what knowledge I have - feel free to mail me off-list. > >HTH, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org >[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Kaye >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:21 PM >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: [thelist] pop up window in flash > > >Hello everyone! I'm a newbie in flash and I'd appreciate any help >from you guys. > >I need to have a scrolling text. Within the text, I need to have some >words clickable. When this words are clicked, a small window (not a >browser) will pop out which will contain the meaning of the word. > >Would really appreciate any help. Thanks. > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 32 >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:40:42 -0600 >From: "Daniel J. Cody" >To: thelist at lists.evolt.org >Subject: Re: [thelist] Email alterations >Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > >Hey Michael - > >Thanks for the compliments, glad you're liking it :) > >Stripping out the junk and rewriting the entire message(earlier this >week a content-type rewriting problem that i missed popped up for >example) is difficult. There are a lot of >content-transfer-encoding/content-type combos to be dealt with, but it's >all in the rfc's I guess :) > >It's actually *not* very resource hungry. If you'll endulge me for a >moment, we'll examine the lifecycle of an html formatted email going to >thelist.. >When an incoming email gets to lists.evolt.org, sendmail checks its >alias file for 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' and see's a program name >instead of an email address, and passes the message to the program. The >program is a little python script that does some low level checking for >things like the correct 'to:' address, make sure its not addressed to >too many people(spam counter), and things of that nature. If it doesn't >like what it sees, it passes it to another program that sends it to >thelist-admin(me). > >Assuming everything is kosher to that little checking script, it writes >the file to a queue for the mailing list manager(MLM). The MLM checks >that queue every second for a new entry, and when it finds one, it loads >the email file into memory, and does some more checking to make sure >it's a plain text email. If it's not, a number of re-writes happen to >the message so it becomes plain text, and any attachment are stripped. >Either way, it comes out squeky clean and ready for delivery. > >Anyone remember the "I'm just a Bill" cartoon they used to play on >Saturday mornings here in the US that chronicled the lifecycle of a US >law? That was great... :) > >So, once we have a nice clean email, a copy gets appended to the digest >file that will get sent out at the end of the day for the folks that are >on the digest. For the rest of us, list specific helpful headers for >list management are written into the header, a quip file that contains a >couple hundred x-evolt header lines is opened, one is selected at random >and put in to the x-evolt: header line. A copy of the message is also >written to the archives in the correct thread. The MLM then polls the >list DB(berkeley style) for people who get every message individually, >pipes their email addresses into the To: in the header and shoots them >off in chunks of 100 to one of the three relay.evolt.org servers that >run Postgres. whew. >Whichever one of the three that gets to deliver the message to you sends >the complete email to your SMTP server. If it bounces for whatever >reason, it gets shot back to another python script that does some >automatic checking(e.g. if this email bounces more than 5 times in 24 >hours, unsubscribe that person), and then sent back to me. > >Thats just one email :) For thelist alone, thats almost 100 >incoming(3000 outgoing) emails a day. Throw in the other evolt lists, >and its about 5000 a day. Time from when it hits lists.evolt.org to the >time it leaves one of the relay servers: 45-60 seconds total(half of >that being queuing). So, to answer your question, it's not server hungry >at all.. Glad you asked? :) > >In the same way that multi-part messages are stripped clean, I'm working >on something similar that will strip footers, but thats a bit more >difficult. > >If it's not totally apparent, I love talking about this stuff, so shoot >me any other questions if you have them :) > >.djc. > >Michael Pemberton wrote: > > I am amazed to see how many new features have come to be added to > > thelist in > > recent times. Great work guys. > > > > I see that it is now possible to strip the txt/plain part out of a mime > > formated message. How hard / server hungry is this kind of thing? I was > > wondering, is it also possible to strip out the thelist footer and other > > such footers (hotmail / yahoo for example). > > > > As someone who is limited to using hotmail at work, I understand the > > annoyances of having this appear at the end of each of my posts. > > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >Help: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thelist > >Archives: http://lists.evolt.org > >End of thelist Digest -------- NYAD, Inc. Computers, Internet & Networks 924 Stone Mill Run, Lawrenceville, GA 30045 Hours: Monday - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Voice/Fax: 770-822-6030 *The contents of this email are strictly confidential and for the recipient only. From david at confluentforms.com Wed Feb 20 23:53:02 2002 From: david at confluentforms.com (David Kutcher) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:53:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: content management systems? Message-ID: <1BE605FA8AA5B247A65AE330F8EE04DF16E2@allah.davidkutcher.com> Over the past few years of consulting, I've found it more difficult to *find* a CMS that is more cost-effective to a specific needs than build a custom CMS. Which is why I now specialize in building CMS's. Yes, there are lots of systems out on the market, but it's doubtful that any meet the specific needs of your organization. Is it worth the money to try to manipulate your organization to match the CMS or to try to reverse engineer the CMS to meet your needs? It's one of the things that my company has turned into a niche business: creating cost-effective content management systems to meet the needs of any organization. We've managed to cut the cost down by creating a large code library and interface templates that we can modify to suit the needs of any client, while making it specialized to meet their individual needs. Our CMS's are able to be tailored for any company ranging from Real Estate companies (www.estatecms.com) to general corporate sites and e-commerce sites. Before you decide on a CMS, do a little cost analysis on the product based on the following criteria: 1. does this CMS exactly meet my needs? 2. does this CMS function in a method that the people that need to use it will be able to easily understand? 3. how quickly can it be tailored, installed, and integrated? David Kutcher www.confluentforms.com From headlines at lists.evolt.org Wed Feb 20 23:56:01 2002 From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 20-FEB-02 Message-ID: <200202210555.g1L5t17t031450@leo.evolt.org> evolt.org headlines for 20-FEB-02 Hi evolters! We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else: Code: Polls & comments with PHP & MySQL (Author: shaggy) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/20059/index.html Ever wanted to know what the visitors of your site think? Well wonder no more because with the help of PHP and MySQL this is a piece of cake. In this article I will explain how you can collect your visitors' opinions about a topic you (or somebody else) is interested in. Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site. Happy reading! evolt.org From marty at face2interface.com Thu Feb 21 00:07:00 2002 From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:07:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Content Management Systems In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221004433.0454dd30@mail.jointhe.net> References: <20020221053757.D78963C20@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221010322.00a7a310@216.238.4.10> For a web based solution at ultra low cost I'd like to see something that beats my CMS product SIMPL http://face2interface.com/Home/SIMPL.shtml Marty SIMPL(tm) Content Management & WebSite Creation http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml Complementary Color Picker: http://face2interface.com/WebSafe From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Feb 21 00:10:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:10:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C7448A8.19617.11DAC5DA@localhost> > From: tmwall > > http://www.mauiatvadventures.com/photos.php > > > Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some > > thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was > > of the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some > > proprietary IE feature. and having been kind enough to let me swipe the code, i did this: http://roselli.org/adrian/ IE5+ only... scroll over blank spot in upper left corner... now, i found a chunk of CSS to make the opacity in N6, but i haven't modifed the JS to handle it yet (so it can do that nify fade in/out trick)... so, to see opacity in N6, you need to go down to the style changer under the nav and select "stealth"... swipe the styles for img in the CSS and you've got the baseline to handle transparency in both IE5+ and N6... From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Feb 21 00:21:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? In-Reply-To: <3C7448A8.19617.11DAC5DA@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3C744B5C.24195.11E555EF@localhost> or i could just post it, instead of being a wanker... img { filter : alpha(opacity=30) ; -moz-opacity : 30% ; } > From: "aardvark" > > and having been kind enough to let me swipe the code, i did this: > http://roselli.org/adrian/ [...] > so, to see opacity in N6, you need to go down to the style changer > under the nav and select "stealth"... swipe the styles for img in the > CSS and you've got the baseline to handle transparency in both IE5+ > and N6... From kichigai at jointhe.net Thu Feb 21 00:40:01 2002 From: kichigai at jointhe.net (Dayn Riegel @ NYAD, Inc.) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:40:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Apologies.... Profuse and A Bit Late! ;) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221013753.0461aa00@mail.jointhe.net> Re: Doh! aardvark was nice enough to point out I made a faux pas when I forgot to *trim* my reply on my previous post. I made a comment regarding the CMS requests, etc. Now you know who you can curse. It's me. Me, me, me. So this goes out to all you that got the Post w/ all 9.7x10E10 extra listings and posts! My "bad" -- oooh, 80's terms! Hmmmm.... Yeah. Signing off. -_- D. -------- NYAD, Inc. Computers, Internet & Networks 924 Stone Mill Run, Lawrenceville, GA 30045 Hours: Monday - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Voice/Fax: 770-822-6030 *The contents of this email are strictly confidential and for the recipient only. From Joel at spinhead.com Thu Feb 21 01:15:00 2002 From: Joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 01:15:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 Message-ID: <6F81D58E8FEB1646B5BE6D6E20B6D628545E@ireland.magisnetworks.com> > When replying privately to mail sent to a public list, check the address before sending. If you don't, at least be thankful if you had the sense to trim your ravings to something direct and polite before publicly dropping your drawers. From john at neoncowboy.com Thu Feb 21 01:34:01 2002 From: john at neoncowboy.com (john corry) Date: Thu Feb 21 01:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php array looping and GetImageSize In-Reply-To: <6F81D58E8FEB1646B5BE6D6E20B6D628545E@ireland.magisnetworks.com> Message-ID: I have an array, whihc is created like this ...in a loop $images[] .= $img; Then, I need to loop through the array and perform the following steps: 1) prepend "images/" to each element, so I have a complete path to the image that $img represents 2) determine it's type and the last 3 letters of the filename before the . 3) based on it's filename and extension, assign it to a variable which will be plugged into the output OK, I know how to do all this stuff...but this code doesn't work right and I can't see why!? $count = count($images); for ($i ; $i < $count ; $i++) { echo "\n" . $images[$i] . "
"; $pic = $base . $images[$i]; $type = GetImageSize($pic); $type = $type[2]; // if it's type is .gif (1) and if ($type == 1) // image is a gif, it's the floorplan { // and if it's small? if ( (substr($pic, -6) == "sm.gif") or (substr($pic, -7) =="sml.gif")) { //$floor_thumb = $images[$i]; $floor_thumb = $pic; $size = getimagesize($pic); $floor_thumb = ""; echo $floor_thumb . " is a gif
"; } } } I get a : Warning: getimagesize: Unable to open 'images/' for reading. in C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\aaa_work\mauivacation.info\site\hs~detail2.ph p on line 76 error! Why? When I just echo the $images array elements, there are'nt any blank spaces or elements with no values (and thats the only situation I can see happening that would result in '$images/' being one of the elements passed to getimagesize. any clues? thanks, jpc From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 01:35:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 01:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dreamweaver 4 In-Reply-To: <005a01c1ba5b$f48483c0$550487cb@pakcomp> References: <20020220172551.78E62520C4@relay.evolt.org> <005a01c1ba5b$f48483c0$550487cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: <20020221073754.GA1306@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Syed Zeeshan Haider declared.... > Please don't be doubtful about anybody's intentions. My religion Islam > tells me: "Doubt is a very bad thing. Don't ever do it". I'm sure that's a slight mis-translation as I doubt very much that I can fly and I think that's a pretty healthy view whatever your religion :-) Glad you cam on and had your say Syed. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dKPSHpvrrTa6L5oRAjLkAJ0YAr9Nf7lNb4k8xclgzN+dK3bhBACfZo74 vct0OHCmhiE6ItH5vTmOaqE= =nWKP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From latte_to_go at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 21 02:06:01 2002 From: latte_to_go at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dry=20Martini?=) Date: Thu Feb 21 02:06:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Can you dig it? Message-ID: <20020221080619.13602.qmail@web9905.mail.yahoo.com> Well it's a chance to review a new site... http://www.partnersip.com/ Thanks, Mike ===== Mike Parsons 'On the Web' latte_to_go at yahoo.co.uk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From all at 123piano.com Thu Feb 21 02:41:00 2002 From: all at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin) Date: Thu Feb 21 02:41:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? References: Message-ID: <3C74B3D9.60105@123piano.com> matt newell wrote: >i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class CMS >systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully centering on >implementation and general risk assessment. > >i've personally delt with interwoven quite a bit in the past and have no >immediate desire to spend 6 digits worth of time and pain for such little >reward. some of the contenders i've been eyeing include the microsoft cms, >atomz publisher, plumtree, fat wire and zope ... others? > >would love to hear what you all have seen ... > I use Zope as a "all in one" replacement of a custom made php solution. Altough it is not an out of the box cms, using for example the cmf (content management framework) can help a lot to build something on top of it. Imho all cms'es require a lot of customization anyway, so it's better to roll you own tool using something like zope which lets you "construct" an app. using differents building blocks. Philippe From edshuck at noevalley.com Thu Feb 21 02:44:01 2002 From: edshuck at noevalley.com (Ed Shuck) Date: Thu Feb 21 02:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Can you dig it? References: <20020221080619.13602.qmail@web9905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01c1bab4$6cf10920$d285a740@net.TheShuckGroup> hi thanks for sharing. i saw nothing wrong viewing 1024*768 in ie5.00 it seems all good. my favorites are the little --- in the left menu and the way the site map left when i made a client choice and the following was a horizontal listing of the client list. very nice. nice color. easily readable. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Dry Martini To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: [thelist] Can you dig it? > Well it's a chance to review a new site... > > http://www.partnersip.com/ > > Thanks, > > Mike > > ===== > Mike Parsons 'On the Web' > latte_to_go at yahoo.co.uk > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From eych at ageofweb.ru Thu Feb 21 03:14:01 2002 From: eych at ageofweb.ru (Sergey 'the Eych' Smirnov) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Aligning a table with CSS? Message-ID: <2311005605.20020221121335@ageofweb.ru> Greetings, I have a little problem. I suddenly noticed that "align" attribute that i am using to align a table (not the contents of the table!) on the page. I usually make a with of, sat, 90% and put align="center" as a table attribute and all browsers that i know put the table in the middle of the page. But according to HTML 4.0 and 4.01 specification there is no such attribute as "align" for a table (and i didn't even notice that it is deprecated - it just doesn't exist, and at the same time it works). So general recommendation from W3C is to use CSS for formatting everywhere, but i just can't figure out the way i can align tables (once again, not the contents!) with CSS. "text-align" is a completely different thing, as far as i understand. So, can anyone help me? -- eych From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Thu Feb 21 03:16:01 2002 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Text to HTML convertors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221044246.00a9b720@popd.netcomuk.co.uk> Message-ID: This is one of the most popular: http://www.jafsoft.com/asctohtm/ It looks like nothing special, but does an awful lot of good stuff when you get into it. 30day trial and $40USD to register. In November 2001 .net magazine gave the full 3.0 version away on the cover disk. the readme says: "This version of AscToHTM is a full copy of version v3.0 made available on the cover disks of various Future Publishing magazines in the UK. Readers of these magazines may use the supplied v3.0 without limit." Do you read any of those mags? Did you miss Nov 2001? Is there anything I can do offlist ;o) ? hth Tony From les.lytollis at morse.com Thu Feb 21 03:16:10 2002 From: les.lytollis at morse.com (Les Lytollis) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:16:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: <0F59E973A6C7D511886F00508BFC92971618E3@DBYEXCH1> I started a thread along similar lines on the cmslist a week or so ago - if you can plough the spam from various CMS companies, it's a pretty good discussion of off the shelf vs roll-your-own http://cms.filsa.net/archives/cms-list/2002/Feb/0045.html Cheers Lez > -----Original Message----- > From: matt newell [mailto:matt at sweetillusions.org] > Sent: 20 February 2002 22:13 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] content management systems? > > > > i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or > enterprise class CMS > systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully > centering on > implementation and general risk assessment. > > i've personally delt with interwoven quite a bit in the past > and have no > immediate desire to spend 6 digits worth of time and pain for > such little > reward. some of the contenders i've been eyeing include the > microsoft cms, > atomz publisher, plumtree, fat wire and zope ... others? > > would love to hear what you all have seen ... > > > // matt > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com Thu Feb 21 03:20:01 2002 From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C74B@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <000701c1bab8$cbcec8c0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. -- > Michael, I hate to sound disagreeable again... but... our > experience with awards was that they were actually very > useful. They generated a LOT of additional traffic for us, > because we submitted our site in awards competitions > sponsored by the types of groups we *wanted* to visit our > site. It also resulted in a lot of additional web business > for the design firm that originally worked on our site, > because they were able to use it as an "award-winning > portfolio piece." That's interesting. But here we're english-speaking-world-oriented. Does any of you know of any kind of awards in french? Because as a french web dev I can't imagine any site's traffic increased by foreign awards... especially if people come to a french site, I guess that's partly because they don't speak foreign languages... BTW are there any french people here? -- [ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ] -- From mark at mountain.ch Thu Feb 21 03:39:00 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Remove break after H# tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> How would I go about removing the line break automatically inserted >>> after a >>> H# level element using CSS? >> >> h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {margin-bottom:0;padding-bottom:0} > > Ummm, won't > h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 {display:inline;} > be more effective? I've put a demo online to demonstrate the difference between the two options above, so that the original message poster can choose the option they were trying to achieve. Screenshot (IE5 / Mac): HTML : Regards Mark Howells From peter.vandijck at vardus.com Thu Feb 21 03:47:00 2002 From: peter.vandijck at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Can you dig it? References: <20020221080619.13602.qmail@web9905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007d01c1babb$c33dc320$d801000a@peter> I dig it :) Very nice site! The only issue I have is that the only way to get back to the homepage is to click the breadcrumb home link. It's be nice to have a home tab. The second (smaller) issue is that the non-standard navigation-on-top,general-stuff-left layout means that it took me a few seconds to realize the sections of the site where at the top (I was looking left for those). Making the top tabs a bit clearer visually should help. But I'm nitpicking, really. Good work! Peter http://petervandijck.com From ckanderson at powersurfr.com Thu Feb 21 03:47:08 2002 From: ckanderson at powersurfr.com (Chris Anderson) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:47:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Lotus Domino & Garbled Text Message-ID: <000b01c1babc$fb7d5ec0$9b67d33d@princefarkwad> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hey everyone, I have a client site that I will be re-doing, and have a little question that could save me HEAPS of time. Basically, the way it is right now, the pages are being parsed by Lotus Domino, and are creating some real garbage. The site is in Japanese, and it doesnt work at all on the Mac. Everything shows up as junk codes instead of text. The english is showing up fine, but the japanese part is showing up like absolute trash. So what I'm wondering is if there is any way to translate that crap into something that I can cut and paste? Right now its showing up like: 低価格 etc... when it should be showing Japanese characters. Any help appreciated!! Thanks! Christian Anderson Photokyo - Digitally capturing the best Tokyo has to offer! http://www.photokyo.com -- From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com Thu Feb 21 03:48:02 2002 From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR) Date: Thu Feb 21 03:48:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT attachments (was: awards in french?) In-Reply-To: <000701c1bab8$cbcec8c0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> Message-ID: <000e01c1babc$9569ee50$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. -- > -- > [ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with > your message. ] > -- My gosh, why does this *$@* Outlook keep appending files.... I've often found it time-consuming to learn how to customize a CMS. My method so far has rather been: create my own CMS that answers my needs (or my client's). Scalability is nice and all but most of the time you only need a small set of features. And it's good for the brain to understand all the nuts and bolts of database-driven development, too... -- [ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ] -- From mark at mountain.ch Thu Feb 21 04:00:00 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:00:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] anyone remember this cool image effect? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> Some time ago someone posted a link to a site that displayed some >> thumbnailed images. On mousing over each image, the visual effect was of >> the image lightening gradually. I think it was done using some proprietary >> IE feature. > > http://www.mauiatvadventures.com/photos.php This doesn't work in Mac. :-( Cool effect though. Regards Mark Howells From jonas at halogen.com Thu Feb 21 04:01:00 2002 From: jonas at halogen.com (Jonas Bohlin) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:01:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug Message-ID: "- try to avoid using inline styles with NN4, keep them all in the head or in a separate file" Actually, Inline styles work fine until you nest layers! then you need to assign stuff like this: .fooStyle { position: absolute; ... } .barStyle { position: absolute; ... }

-----Original Message----- From: Craig Saila [mailto:crsaila at yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:59 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] DIV positioning with CSS and NS4 bug Mark Howells wrote: >>Anyone know offhand if NS4.x is a lost cause with DIV/CSS [...] > Absolutely not. I wrote about this subject on this list last week and > subsequently transferred the article into my own site at > . The following example sites have been Mark beat me to the punch because I was looking for that article's link (and Mozilla crashed). A couple addition's to Mark's article would be: - try to avoid using inline styles with NN4, keep them all in the head or in a separate file - you may find appyling "border: none" to layers that aren't behaving properly will help Another Mark (Newhouse) has a NN4-friendly template that includes a footer (also from the CSS Discuss List): -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From webmaster at archetype-it.com Thu Feb 21 04:03:01 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) In-Reply-To: <000701c1bab8$cbcec8c0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> References: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C74B@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221102901.00baaef0@mail.archetype-it.com> At 10:18 21/02/2002 +0100, you wrote: >BTW are there any french people here? In France, but not French ... Veronica Yuill email: veronicay at archetype-it.com Archetype Information Technology Ltd http://www.archetype-it.com/english/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dynamic websites for fast-moving businesses From webmaster at archetype-it.com Thu Feb 21 04:03:10 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:03:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML In-Reply-To: <20020220221640.GD84700@pajunas.com> References: <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221103801.00b25058@mail.archetype-it.com> At 16:16 20/02/2002 -0600, you wrote: >On a more helpful/less ranty note, word html can be made a LOT better >using Microsoft's "save as compact HTML" plugin. Look on their office >downloads site. It can either be used as a plugin from word (by them) >or in standalone batch mode (by you) to produce respectable code. I went hunting for this on MS's site ... it took a while, so to save others' time here's the URL I eventually found: http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/2000/Msohtmf2.aspx I assume this is what you were referring to Allie? I've downloaded it but haven't tried it yet. Veronica Yuill email: veronicay at archetype-it.com Archetype Information Technology Ltd http://www.archetype-it.com/english/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dynamic websites for fast-moving businesses From roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com Thu Feb 21 04:07:00 2002 From: roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com (Roger Newbrook) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:07:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: matt asked for "... others?" have been involved using mediasurface (www.mediasurface.com) for about 8 months or so, they're one of our partners and have quite an impressive client list (this isn't a plug, but i was impressed by their client list when i saw it!). it's one of the expensive solutions but does seem to be quite reliable and robust. you do have to relearn everything you know about approaching the design and structure of a website though. it seems the key to success using this product is rigourous pre-planning to determine the building blocks of the site. they have a plug-in which works directly with Dreamweaver too though i have never used this hth roger bit obvious but think it's a useful point. when developing a site using mediasurface, try to ascertain how the site is intended to develop over time, always keep this larger picture in mind during site preparation duties and build in flexibility to the design and structure from the outset. this will really help later when different sections/features need to be added. From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 04:12:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Hi Matt None of the others you mention would really be classed as sensible for a large corporate CMS, with the possible exception of a very, very customised Zope, and even then you'd have problems getting it past most corporate systems architects. Plumtree is interesting if you're running something like Excite or Altavista - a real portal - and you want users to be able to customise it according to their preferences. Generally, the shortlist at the top end of the market is: * Interwoven (what bits did you use?) * Broadvision * Vignette (or bits from the suite anyway) * Documentum All of them will do the one thing which a high-end CMS *must* do which is integrate with other systems, including legacy ones, ERPs etc. But it all depends on what you're wanting to do with your system... each of the above have strengths and weaknesses. Do you have access to the Gartner magic quadrant? That's very good for assessing several potential solutions at once. The Forrester TechRankings are also worthwhile. Cheers Martin Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org To: thelist at lists.evolt.org cc: Subject: [thelist] content management systems? i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or enterprise class CMS systems that any of you have had experience with -- hopefully centering on implementation and general risk assessment. i've personally delt with interwoven quite a bit in the past and have no immediate desire to spend 6 digits worth of time and pain for such little reward. some of the contenders i've been eyeing include the microsoft cms, atomz publisher, plumtree, fat wire and zope ... others? would love to hear what you all have seen .. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From matt at mattwenham.co.uk Thu Feb 21 04:14:01 2002 From: matt at mattwenham.co.uk (Matt Wenham) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Freeware JPG extraction from SWF... Message-ID: <3C74C895.42DE1D56@mattwenham.co.uk> Hi folks, I need to extract some JPGs from an SWF file (or get them out of the FLA using Flash) which didn't originate with me. Is there a freeware application to do this, or a way to do it in Flash itself? Many thanks, Matt... From warozzo at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 04:15:01 2002 From: warozzo at yahoo.com (Dewara Sianipar) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Harvesting tips (reinventing the wheel) References: <20020220032746.818C83B62@relay.evolt.org> <017701c1ba04$9c26ab60$01ba0150@athlon800> <3C73BBF8.50702@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <000201c1bac2$4d318fc0$81029bca@gangel> Hey Daniel, Wouldn't it be great if you also post the tips into the list. I believe it wouldn't be a big file... Just a suggestion... :) Salam, Dewara Sianipar =========================================== Injuries may be forgiven, but not forgotten - Aesop's Fables ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Harvesting tips (reinventing the wheel) > Hey George - > > Dean has made the original perl tip harvester available under the GPL > and its available at > http://evolt.org/evolt_source_code/index.html > > You should be able to look at how he did things to solve the probs on > your end :) > > .djc. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 04:20:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Michael Depends on your audience - if the alleged rinky dink portal is where a big bunch of your audience hang out, then that's the place to be. But for general search engines, make sure you're spidered by the Google bot and by the Inktomi one, and that's a *lot* of other engines covered. Cheers Martin Subject: [thelist] Popular search engines Is there a list anywhere of the most popular search engines (like a top 5 based on searches made or something). I'd like to show my boss that getting a number one spot in some rinky dink European portal search is not the big woo-hah he claims it is. Yeah, like I'm going to show up my boss in my third week in the job. I'll wait until my fifth week. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From ml.duske at gmx.net Thu Feb 21 04:21:00 2002 From: ml.duske at gmx.net (Kristian Duske) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php array looping and GetImageSize In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > for ($i ; $i < > $count ; $i++) The error is probably your for loop. You need to tell it where to start: for ($i = 0; $i < $count, $i++) { } I haven't looked into yor code any further, I'm pretty sure your error lies there. Regards Kristian From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 04:30:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Or to give a slightly more complex answer: * People who don't want to/can't receive HTML email will be *really* upset about it * It's not really possible to predict in advance whether a user can or can't receive HTML email based on their email client or platform (except for webmail accounts that almost certainly can, and pine/elm users who almost certainly can't) because people have all kinds of wierd setups either by choice or by imposition of their friendly sysadmin * However, HTML email to those who are OK about it and can see it generally does extremely well. Therefore, here's what you could do: * The default is plain text email - send this unless you have better information on the user * Allow the user to explictly choose to receive HTML (you might want to label the options as "words only/words and pictures" as many general users won't understand what you mean by HTML email) * In HTML email, always send it as multi-part with a text version just in case of user error * Make sure there's some kind of tracking in that email (eg a single pixel image with a unique query string) so you know that HTML email receivers can actually view the HTML. ***make sure you let people know about this in your privacy policy, and don't use it for anything else*** * Test, test, test to see if the above brings significantly better results than what you're doing at the moment. This will require a modicum of statistics... Remember, that by definition, we are not representative web/email users, and while we may have our own opinions about what's acceptable, we don't know for sure if that's shared by our audiences until we test it. Cheers Martin To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Word to HTML HTML in email is bad!, especially since you're considering sending LARGE HTML emails to a bunch of people. Minimally, make sure that there is also a plaintext section in the email. I for one frequently use a text-only email client and I routinely delete plaintext-free emails. --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From bigpant at btinternet.com Thu Feb 21 04:33:01 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (BT Bigpant) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] how to set up a mailing list In-Reply-To: <3C74885A.5060904@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: I recently wrote a mailing list application in php/mySQL which works well, but my isp has told me I'm not allowed to run mailing lists on their server, "opt-in or otherwise", and I am limited to sending 100 SMTP emails per day from php. This is already a problem, and can only get worse. I have considered simply stripping the email addresses out of the database and using outlook to send the mailshots, but I wish to run a viral marketing campaign using the subscribers' ID in a link ( eg. http://www.philparker.f2s.com?ref=1 ) to tot up the number of referals generated by each subscriber. This makes every email different. I thought of writing a java application to connect to the database and send the emails via my pop account. While this is all very good for my development as a programmer, I kind of feel I'm missing the point somewhere. Having just read Daniel J Cody's description of how evolt works, I feel I am running down the wrong alley. I was particularly interested in Daniel's description of server side scripts that deal with incoming emails/bounce backs. I would really like to develop my own mailing applications and keep control of my own database. Are there reasonably priced isp's that will let me do this. Or is there a better way to do this ? I have no experience of using any other mailing system. Any advice would be most appreciated. TIA Phil Parker From ben at inchima.com Thu Feb 21 04:40:00 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php login security (was: Call html page with php) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I was actually writing a response to your last email, :) just call me > bloody-minded: if you insist... :o) > >if you are referring to my case, then i would reiterate that there were > >sessions involved, just not php 4 sessions. > OK, so each page would have something like this included at the top: [snip] this is my pseudocode coming up... $loginok = "no" // check session id if (isset($seshid)) { // could be passed in a form, querystring, or in a cookie check seshid against stored seshids in database if valid and not timed out then $loginok = "yes" } // check for login attempt if (isset($HTTP_POST_VARS[login_userid]) && $userin == "no") { check userid and password against database if valid then create $seshid $loginok = "yes" } i haven't used this code for a while now, as the recent sites i have created have been private communities and as such only require a single login page (which makes things a lot less complicated!). > Aaaah. We're using terms in different ways. By 'authenticate' I mean: > 'compare the provided login data against a record of registered > users, if there's a match the user is authenticated.' By 'authorize' > I mean: 'an authenticated user may be authorized to use a page, a > flag is typically checked to see if they are allowed to view the > document.' apologies if my terms haven't been consistent throughout, that's usually the case with me. i just assume people can read my mind and understand what i say, which is how it should be ;o) > ... The former involves a lot of redundant > work on each page, in my opinion, but is safe enough as long as the > user/pass are session variables, or otherwise kept from GET/POST > (even storing them in cookies would not be nice). The latter requires > that $loginOK is not liable to be hidden by a GET/POST/COOKIE > variable -- or there is no security. the user/pass combination is only used once to create the session. then the session id is passed in whatever way is necessary (depending on the website and the client settings). $loginOK is only visible to each page. it isn't passed. the username and password aren't passed. the session id is passed. it works anyway. and it's secure (afaik!). benji inchima.com From ben at inchima.com Thu Feb 21 04:56:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT attachments (was: awards in french?) In-Reply-To: <000e01c1babc$9569ee50$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw> Message-ID: > > [ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with > > your message. ] > > -- > > My gosh, why does this *$@* Outlook keep appending files.... http://www.google.com/search?q=winmail%2Edat hth benji inchima.com From mike at angloinfo.com Thu Feb 21 04:58:00 2002 From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:58:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221102901.00baaef0@mail.archetype-it.com> Message-ID: And another, not French, in France... --------------------------- Mike Hardaker Founder & Publisher - AngloINFO http://www.angloinfo.com > >BTW are there any french people here? > > In France, but not French ... > Veronica Yuill email: veronicay at archetype-it.com From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 04:58:18 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:58:18 2002 Subject: [thelist] colors again Message-ID: <20020221110128.GB1872@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone, I'm using www.colorschemer.com/online/ to help my non artist brain come up with nice color schemes. But, I've been given a logo I /must/ work with which is non browser safe so the 'suggester' is useless. Is there anything that will help me find a color scheme for non browser safe's? The color is #002D44 and you can take a look at it at www.explodingnet.com/frankiburg.dk/frankiburg I've set it in a table of the same color. Thanks very much indeed.... - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dNOIHpvrrTa6L5oRAtQpAKCAgQof14Kky1/Pqv2Suqjh/bi6uQCZAedm 3ryYKVHyUU9DmBuVe+nUcJo= =s1FU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 04:59:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:59:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Aligning a table with CSS? In-Reply-To: <2311005605.20020221121335@ageofweb.ru> References: <2311005605.20020221121335@ageofweb.ru> Message-ID: <20020221105718.GA1872@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Sergey 'the Eych' Smirnov declared.... > But according to HTML 4.0 and 4.01 specification there is no such > attribute as "align" for a table (and i didn't even notice that it is > deprecated - it just doesn't exist, and at the same time it works). No, according to my O'Reilly here it is just deprecated. > So general recommendation from W3C is to use CSS for formatting > everywhere, but i just can't figure out the way i can align tables > (once again, not the contents!) with CSS. "text-align" is a completely > different thing, as far as i understand. I think this came up the other day on another list and I'm pretty damn sure you /do/ use the text-align CSS jobbie for this. Try it and validate the CSS? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dNKOHpvrrTa6L5oRAiXmAJ9IqatyZ5tbwsKm7g9olvf8WZ8eDACePQZI K5LpdzAQPi70FafwogddNcs= =N6NQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Thu Feb 21 05:18:01 2002 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] colors again In-Reply-To: <20020221110128.GB1872@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: >Is there anything that will help me find a color scheme >for non browser >safe's? > >The color is #002D44 and you can take a look at it at >www.explodingnet.com/frankiburg.dk/frankiburg I've set it >in a table of >the same color. If it helps the nearest web safe colour is: #003333 which on my screen looks very close! why not use that as the base for your scheme? From mike at angloinfo.com Thu Feb 21 05:20:49 2002 From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:20:49 2002 Subject: [thelist] Front Page - does it suck? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > How about 300 or 500 page sites: www.angloinfo.com is somewhat larger than that! (I'm not actually sure how big, but several thousand pages, dynamically-created). I use FP2000 for the vast majority of the work, mostly for its file-management and search/replace functions. And, yes, the dialog boxes need "massaging". The key element: * Tools/Page Options/HTML Source/ -> Preserve existing HTML Mike --------------------------- Mike Hardaker Founder & Publisher - AngloINFO http://www.angloinfo.com From matt at swcdesign.com Thu Feb 21 05:20:58 2002 From: matt at swcdesign.com (Matthew Mullenweg) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:20:58 2002 Subject: [thelist] Can you dig it? In-Reply-To: <20020221080619.13602.qmail@web9905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c1bac8$48c4ff20$093efea9@Portabase> * Besides the things that a few others have mentioned, something that just sort of bugs me is how some of the faces are off center in the 'pic of us' picture. The guy second from the top on the right is perfect as far as positioning goes. Also the colors seem a little off on some of them. Since you use this image on every page it's worth tweaking a bit. * You seem to be linking to your stylesheet twice on some pages, once inside the DW editable "doctitle" area and once outside of it. * Having the alt text say 'spacer' on those images is probably really not necessary. I read a great article about this a few days ago, but I can't think of the link. The gist was that if images are purely decorative, an alt value of "" is perfectly fine. ALT is really meant to provide an alternative representation of images that are important to the page for people who can't see it. Keep that in mind when adding ALT attributes. * On the alt tags again, it seems more professional if they're capitalized consistently with the rest of the site. * I like the shadow effect on the top and side * It doesn't validate according to W3C standards. You could easily make the site standards compliant with relatively few changes, which is something I would recommend. Of course it isn't required by any means, and it won't effect how the majority of people view your site, for now. However it's never too early to start thinking about forward compatibility. http://www.alistapart.com/stories/betterliving/ -Matt From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Thu Feb 21 05:21:07 2002 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:21:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] Gonna Bust up my Pc in a minute In-Reply-To: <20020221105718.GA1872@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: This is really bugging me - I've search, been around the web, tried everything - from 4guysfromrolla to asp101 and even - yes even microsoft support (god rest my soul). My Pc format dates into US format and it doing my head in! Regional settings: Admin: UK, every user on the pc is UK. I'm using Session.LCID = 2057 (Uk date format) The query i'm running using Now() as the date even write the date in UK format!!!!! But for some messed up reason as soon as Access gets its hands on it - wam bam thank you mam - US date format!!!!! aahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Is there something in Access that makes the date US format? Can anyone help! Cheers Paul From niamhcarmel at dublin.com Thu Feb 21 05:21:15 2002 From: niamhcarmel at dublin.com (niamh conaty) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:21:15 2002 Subject: [thelist] Aligning a table with CSS? Message-ID: <20020221111036.6322.qmail@mail.com> Try this website for info, I haven't actually put it to the test but it looks intersting. http://glish.com/css/ Niamh -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com From chimptomba at fastmail.fm Thu Feb 21 05:21:24 2002 From: chimptomba at fastmail.fm (Chip "Hazard" Tomba) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:21:24 2002 Subject: [thelist] Lotus Domino & Garbled Text References: <000b01c1babc$fb7d5ec0$9b67d33d@princefarkwad> Message-ID: <3C74D6B1.40707D4D@fastmail.fm> did u change the browser language setting to allow japaanese, tools->inernet opti->languges you should enable japanese there....or try japanese as no.1 language...sometimes domino multingual website dont work otherwise.... Chris Anderson wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Hey everyone, > > I have a client site that I will be re-doing, and have a little question > that could save me HEAPS of time. Basically, the way it is right now, the > pages are being parsed by Lotus Domino, and are creating some real garbage. > The site is in Japanese, and it doesnt work at all on the Mac. Everything > shows up as junk codes instead of text. > > The english is showing up fine, but the japanese part is showing up like > absolute trash. > > So what I'm wondering is if there is any way to translate that crap into > something that I can cut and paste? > > Right now its showing up like: 低価格 etc... > when it should be showing Japanese characters. > > Any help appreciated!! Thanks! > > Christian Anderson > Photokyo - Digitally capturing the best Tokyo has to offer! > http://www.photokyo.com > > -- > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 05:25:01 2002 From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] What is DOM? Message-ID: >Hello Experts, >I have read about DOM at many places but too much complex technical >language has always been an obstacle in my way to learn about DOM. Can >somebody tell me what DOM really is? For a history and short, simple description see http://www.digital-web.com/features/feature_2001-5.shtml >How can it be important for web development? You want to access an HTML element, a form field, a layer, a paragraph. This can only be done through some sort of Document Object Model. >To which extent is it necessary for web developer to learn >about DOM? Very necessary. You *must* know the basics (but anyone who's ever used document.images or document.forms already knows the basics). ppk _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From mpember at phreaker.net Thu Feb 21 05:42:00 2002 From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:42:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] how to set up a mailing list References: Message-ID: <3C74DD24.6050501@phreaker.net> BT Bigpant wrote: >I am limited to sending 100 SMTP emails per day from php. > How are you sending the emails? I have played around with using a socket connection to connect directly to an smpt server. I got it to the point of behaving rather well for sending small numbers of emails. It sometimes played up, but could be the starting point for such a system. -- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 05:44:00 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] colors again In-Reply-To: References: <20020221110128.GB1872@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <20020221114727.GA2449@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Tony Crockford declared.... > > >Is there anything that will help me find a color scheme > >for non browser > >safe's? > > > >The color is #002D44 and you can take a look at it at > >www.explodingnet.com/frankiburg.dk/frankiburg I've set it > If it helps the nearest web safe colour is: > #003333 > > which on my screen looks very close! > > why not use that as the base for your scheme? I certainly will, how did you find the match, do you have an eye for that or is there a tool that's handy for this kind of thing? Many thanks,,,, - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dN5PHpvrrTa6L5oRApXhAKClCkns/KaEobEH82b+03xckO/PHQCeKSMA RONb9+JNqitUov+AI7AKChA= =DrmF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mike at angloinfo.com Thu Feb 21 05:49:01 2002 From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Gonna Bust up my Pc in a minute In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dunno if: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q142009 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q149095 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q208596 might help? --------------------------- Mike Hardaker Founder & Publisher - AngloINFO http://www.angloinfo.com > My Pc format dates into US format and it doing my head in! > > Regional settings: Admin: UK, every user on the pc is UK. > I'm using Session.LCID = 2057 (Uk date format) > The query i'm running using Now() as the date even write the date in UK > format!!!!! But for some messed up reason as soon as Access gets its hands > on it - wam bam thank you mam - US date format!!!!! aahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! > > Is there something in Access that makes the date US format? From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Thu Feb 21 05:49:09 2002 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:49:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] colors again In-Reply-To: <20020221114727.GA2449@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: >I certainly will, how did you find the match, do you have >an eye for >that or is there a tool that's handy for this kind of thing? You mean you don't have Nadger? Ooh! go here quick and get it: http://apps.sepulchre.co.uk/nadger/ (windows app i'm afraid, but excellent tool!) features: It's not a big list of features but that was the aim of Nadger, simplicity. Quickly grab the hexidecimal value of a colour on screen Create your own colours from component parts of Red, Blue and Green. Find out the closest match websafe colour Store groups of colours for easy reference later Blend colours together to find those shading colours you need. Have fun! From elin at artopod.se Thu Feb 21 06:02:01 2002 From: elin at artopod.se (elin tjerngren. artopod) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Aligning a table with CSS? In-Reply-To: <20020221105718.GA1872@explodingnet.com> References: <2311005605.20020221121335@ageofweb.ru> Message-ID: <3C74EFE2.27675.117F287@localhost> Hello, > > So general recommendation from W3C is to use CSS for formatting > > everywhere, but i just can't figure out the way i can align tables > > (once again, not the contents!) with CSS. "text-align" is a completely > > different thing, as far as i understand. > > I think this came up the other day on another list and I'm pretty damn sure > you /do/ use the text-align CSS jobbie for this. Try it and validate the > CSS? I think what Sergey meant was: float: right or float: left /Elin From ftarzwell at fayec.com Thu Feb 21 06:03:00 2002 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... Message-ID: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> Hi, I was wondering on how you guys deal with a client (considering you outsource to other designers/developers) who asked for the original files (PSD, FLA) you created for the job you got from them... Is it default that we have to hand the original files to them or not? Should I ask for an extra fee for the originals? The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by oneself instead of hiring for it... Any tips? -- Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) From bigpant at btinternet.com Thu Feb 21 06:06:03 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (BT Bigpant) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:06:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript: document.write() in head section In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba0c$2cd33e60$cf0587cb@pakcomp> Message-ID: using document.write after the page has loaded will put the html at the end of the document. If you are wishing to put it in a specific place, you will need to use innerHTML for IE, I forget what to use for NN. HTH Phil Parker -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Syed Zeeshan Haider Sent: 20 February 2002 12:41 To: Evolt Subject: [thelist] JavaScript: document.write() in head section Hello Everybody, Is there something wrong about writing document.werite() in the head section of a web page? I have created a web page with all JavaScript in head section. When I click a button, JavaScript is supposed to write some message on the page. But sometimes it works and some time it doesn't. When it does not work, I have to close the web page and then open it again. What the problem is? I have inserted document.write() into head section. Is this creating problem? Thank you, Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From warozzo at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 06:13:01 2002 From: warozzo at yahoo.com (Dewara Sianipar) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP on members.evolt.org References: <3C7416E5.4090207@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <022d01c1bad2$bed345a0$81029bca@gangel> wow, thanks! :) But I don't do ASP. But I'm willing to learn. Do you have links that you recommend so I can learn ASP especially using JScript and not VBScript. Because I've read somewhere that ASP using JScript is faster than ASP using VBScript. Thanks, Dewara Sianipar =========================================== Injuries may be forgiven, but not forgotten - Aesop's Fables ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: ASP on members.evolt.org > Hi gang - > > One of the most requested features I get is for an ASP application > server on the members.evolt.org server. Today, I'm happy to annouce > we've got it! > > Chili!Soft ASP is installed and running on the members.evolt.org server, > and you should be able to start writing *basic* ASP pages immediately(DB > connectivity and a couple other things to follow soon). > > We owe a *HUGE* thanks to Sun Microsystems, who owns Chili!Soft, because > they donated the license to evolt with no strings attached. The $500 > price tag on Chili!Soft ASP was the one thing preventing evolt.org from > providing the service on the members.evolt.org server. > > For those of you who don't know, evolt.org provides this (what i think > is great) service for free to all of you to learn and play on, asking > nothing in return. evolt.org also has no advertisements on our website, > within our mailing lists, or on *YOUR* websites. In fact, just about the > only way that evolt.org raises money is by donations from our members. > > I'm not going to hop up and down or anything asking for donations, I'd > just like you to think about all the things you get from evolt.org and > how much those things are worth to you. If you're interested in finding > out more, check out the last question or two of the members.evolt.org FAQ: > http://members.evolt.org/faq.cfm > > And thats all I have to say about that. > > Whats needed now is some help from you. I'm looking for people who have > ASP experience to write a couple test scripts to test database > connectivity w/MySQL. Also, if you have experience with Chili!Soft ASP, > and have some free time, you're my new best friend :) In either case, > please contact me if you're willing and able to help out! > > Also, if anyone is interested in giving a 'thanks' to the guy at Sun who > got us the license (Which would be *very* cool and appreciated), let me > know and I'll pass on the address - a simple, 'wow, thanks!' would be > great :) > > Next in the pipe is providing JSP support to give us the full gamut of > web development technologies(in addition to PHP, ASP, CF, and Perl) > > Some of the Chili!Soft features include: > > * Syntax equivalency to Microsoft's ASP 2.0 > * Easy and powerful object-oriented database access - ActiveX Data > Objects (ADO) for data access to a variety of databases.? > * With a built-in technology called Chili!Beans, programmers have full > access to Java's object-oriented environment directly from ASP > scripting. Chili!Beans acts as a dynamic COM wrapper which exposes the > public methods and properties of the wrapped Java class - allowing you > to integrate these components into your Web application.? > > If you're interested in picking up ASP, or want to learn more about > porting existing ASP apps, check out the ChiliSoft documentation at > > http://members.evolt.org/help/caspdoc/ - theres some really good > examples and advice in there. > > Thanks for taking the time to read this far, as always, feel free to > contact me if you have any questions or problems :) > > .djc. > > _______________________________________________ > http://members.evolt.org _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 06:15:01 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- What does your contract say? Who owns the rights? This *could* be a situation you could parlay into a long-term relationship, if you pitched it around trust, and being open and client-focused. Cheers Martin Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... I was wondering on how you guys deal with a client (considering you outsource to other designers/developers) who asked for the original files (PSD, FLA) you created for the job you got from them... Is it default that we have to hand the original files to them or not? Should I ask for an extra fee for the originals? The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by oneself instead of hiring for it... --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From chrism at puffofsmoke.net Thu Feb 21 06:16:01 2002 From: chrism at puffofsmoke.net (Chris Marsh) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> Message-ID: Flavia > I was wondering on how you guys deal with a client (considering you > outsource to other designers/developers) who asked for the original > files (PSD, FLA) you created for the job you got from them... > Is it default that we have to hand the original files to them or not? > Should I ask for an extra fee for the originals? > The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially > FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty > self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by > oneself instead of hiring for it... > > Any tips? One should not be relying on obfuscation in order to generate work. Customer satisfaction in this market is paramount, and you will find that there are enough people out there willing to cut clients' costs in order to ensure future business that you may struggle to keep clients such as this. Regards Chris Marsh From lisa at koolfish.com Thu Feb 21 06:24:00 2002 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Advice needed for setting up making donations on line Message-ID: <000201c1bad2$c479a710$0100a8c0@canthainet.com> Does any one have any experience of taking donations for charity on line? My friend is planning to be the first insulin dependent pilot to fly around the world and raising money at the same time for diabetes research. He is looking for sponsors and also would like people to be able to donate on line. Aside from the usual on line payment such as verisign etc does any one know of any company or product that can be used for making donations. Is there anyone who does this without taking a big percentage on commission? Any leads / advice would be appreciated. Thanks Lisa. From lisa at koolfish.com Thu Feb 21 06:24:10 2002 From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:24:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re:Accessing the internet temporarily in the US Message-ID: <000701c1bad2$c96013e0$0100a8c0@canthainet.com> > My client is planning to fly around the world and wants to be able to > have internet access via his laptop to update the text on his forth > coming site. > > I told him to set up international roaming with his isp, but he would > like to know if there are any other options. Thanks for all the different suggestions I will pass these all on. Matthew wrote: I'm also not an AOL fan, but that is probably the easiest solution. Another nice way I've found to get free access is at Kinko's. They charge if you use their computers, but every one I've been to lets you plug in your laptop to their Ethernet hookup and go. The official use of this is to print things directly from your laptop, but more often then not they just don't care. What is kinko's? Sorry I never reply straight away to everyone's advice, I am always in bed when the majority of you are working, I always feel a bit bad that it takes me about 10 hours to reply to you ;( Thanks all Lisa From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 06:27:00 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:27:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: References: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> Message-ID: <20020221122956.GB2449@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Chris Marsh declared.... > > The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially > > FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty > > self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by > > oneself instead of hiring for it... > > > > Any tips? > > One should not be relying on obfuscation in order to generate work. Customer > satisfaction in this market is paramount, and you will find that there are > enough people out there willing to cut clients' costs in order to ensure > future business that you may struggle to keep clients such as this. Yep, give the man his stuff, he paid for it right? What's an FLA? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dOhEHpvrrTa6L5oRAn9kAKCFUEJJZp7mDRH7SodK/MDvopRbhACgjdc2 O+LAheLruaJT2Tv5Dctva7w= =iNQP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jay.blanchard at thermon.com Thu Feb 21 06:34:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (jay.blanchard at thermon.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Sort Question Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221063101.00a78150@pop.gvtc.com> I have tried numerous methods, but I cannot seem to get this sort to work properly. I went searching for info, tried some other techniques, but still no luck. So I turn to my favorite group of gurus... I am returning a recordset from the database where one column contains a project number. That number is configured like this; xx-xxxx-xx The person who requested this report wants the report sorted by the middle four numbers of the project number. I have tried methods in both SQL and ASP. Any insight on this would be grandly appreciated. Jay From ftarzwell at fayec.com Thu Feb 21 06:44:01 2002 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... References: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> <20020221122956.GB2449@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <3C74EBE8.60209@fayec.com> FLA is the original flash file. By publishing the FLA you get the swf that is embeded on html pages. Thank you all for your ideas. I was just not sure about that also because it enters the copyright realm... -- Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) From bigpant at btinternet.com Thu Feb 21 06:44:09 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (BT Bigpant) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:44:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] how to set up a mailing list In-Reply-To: <3C74DD24.6050501@phreaker.net> Message-ID: > How are you sending the emails? I am using the php mail function. From vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com Thu Feb 21 06:46:01 2002 From: vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com (Vic Wooten) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Freeware JPG extraction from SWF... References: <3C74C895.42DE1D56@mattwenham.co.uk> Message-ID: <002f01c1bad5$f4d73730$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> Matt, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Wenham" To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:14 AM Subject: [thelist] Freeware JPG extraction from SWF... > I need to extract some JPGs from an SWF file (or get them out of the FLA > using Flash) which didn't originate with me. Is there a freeware > application to do this, or a way to do it in Flash itself? Not freeware.... http://www.livetronix.com/ SWF Scanner A trial download is available. Sells for $19.99 Vic > Many thanks, > > Matt... From webmaster at archetype-it.com Thu Feb 21 06:54:01 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP on members.evolt.org In-Reply-To: <022d01c1bad2$bed345a0$81029bca@gangel> References: <3C7416E5.4090207@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221134352.03b00aa0@mail.archetype-it.com> At 19:19 21/02/2002 +0700, you wrote: >But I don't do ASP. But I'm willing to learn. Do you have links that you >recommend so I can learn >ASP especially using JScript and not VBScript. Because I've read somewhere >that >ASP using JScript is faster than ASP using VBScript. Almost all online resources that I'm aware of use VBScript for their examples ... good for beginners are: http://www.learnasp.com/ http://www.asp101.com/ My all-time favourite, once you're a bit more advanced: http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/ But bear in mind, the downside of Chillisoft is that it's only compatible with ASP 2.0. A lot of examples you will see around will assume ASP 3.0 or ASP.NET. Still a good platform for learning the basics though. Now, if someone were to donate a Windows 2000 server with IIS5/ASP.NET to evolt ... -- Veronica Yuill Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com Thu Feb 21 06:55:00 2002 From: vicwooten at eaglewebservices.com (Vic Wooten) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:55:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... References: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> <20020221122956.GB2449@explodingnet.com> <3C74EBE8.60209@fayec.com> Message-ID: <004001c1bad7$32030c00$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> For what it's worth (and this is contrary to all the suggestions made so far!), professional photographers "never" release their negatives to their clients. Myself...I would probably let the client have the files. After they've botched things up...should they decide to work the site on their own, they will most likely come back to you. My 2 cents Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faye Tarzwell(FayeC)" To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... > I was just not sure about that also because it enters the copyright realm... > -- > Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC) From ron_senykoff at beaerospace.com Thu Feb 21 07:10:01 2002 From: ron_senykoff at beaerospace.com (ron_senykoff at beaerospace.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Lotus Domino & Garbled Text Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From amccoy at goodmanct.com Thu Feb 21 07:20:04 2002 From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:20:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B336028535@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> :: i was hoping to solicit any reviews of corporate or :: enterprise class CMS :: systems that any of you have had experience with -- :: hopefully centering on :: implementation and general risk assessment. I've just started looking into Typo3. (http://www.typo3.com) It's MySQL/PHP-based and (so far) looks like it requires no root-level tweaks to make it run. As for the depth of features/functions/tools of the system, all I can say is RTFM (5 PDF documents!). It has a LOT of bells & whistles, including a fairly nice web-based WYSIWYG editor (if there IS such a thing). And it's FREE! (released under the GPL) Alan From evolt at perceive.net Thu Feb 21 07:25:01 2002 From: evolt at perceive.net (Eric Vitiello) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Sort Question References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221063101.00a78150@pop.gvtc.com> Message-ID: <02Feb21.081635est.119115@pcbhi266.bhsi.com> -- jay.blanchard at thermon.com [Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:36:20 -0600]: >xx-xxxx-xx > >The person who requested this report wants the report sorted by the >middle four numbers of the project number. I have tried methods in both SQL and ASP. since you're using SQL, I would suggest: SELECT projectid, other_value ORDER BY SUBSTRING(projectid,4,4) this will order it by the substring starting at the fourth character, and 4 characters long, thus giving you what you're looking for. you'll of course have to modify the column names, but that should work for you. --- Eric Vitiello Perceive Designs From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 07:27:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:27:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Lotus Domino & Garbled Text Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Or alternatively, that the Mac in question doesn't have support for ISO-2022-JP enabled. I was working on a Greek site last year, and my work laptop didn't have support for Greek chars. Once I'd installed the appropriate character set pack (ISO-8859-7), it all worked beautifully. http://www.terena.nl/multiling/ml-docs/iso-8859.html Cheers Martin To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Lotus Domino & Garbled Text Well, I imagine that the encoding type is being written as if its english, so the browsers think english is coming at them instead of japanese. In InternetExplorer: View - Encoding - Unicode Japanese characters are double-byte Unicode. You are probably seeing the single-byte ASCII characters. Watch out because Notes does not understand Unicode and may display carriage returns between the bytes of a single character. Try to force the character set by adding a META tag to the web page Header: Valid charsets (according to RFC1945) are "US-ASCII" "ISO-8859-1" "ISO-8859-2" "ISO-8859-3" "ISO-8859-4" "ISO-8859-5" "ISO-8859-6" "ISO-8859-7" "ISO-8859-8" "ISO-8859-9" "ISO-2022-JP" "ISO-2022-JP-2" "ISO-2022-KR" "UNICODE-1-1" "UNICODE-1-1-UTF-7" "UNICODE-1-1-UTF-8" --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From jay.blanchard at thermon.com Thu Feb 21 07:37:00 2002 From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (jay.blanchard at thermon.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re:ASP Sort Question Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221073129.00a78008@pop.gvtc.com> Eric, you are a genius! I was focused on doing it in the code and was completely ignorant about the SQL substring function. Thank you! Jay Before starting to insert many response.write statements into an ASP page, such as for a table, write and verify all of your HTML/XHTML/DHTML in your regular code editor as a separate basic web file. Tweak that file until it is like you want it, then cut-n-paste into your ASP page, adding the appropriate additional code to make it function. This technique works in PHP, PERL, and many other web based languages. From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 07:39:00 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] colors again In-Reply-To: References: <20020221114727.GA2449@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <20020221134140.GB1345@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Tony Crockford declared.... > > >I certainly will, how did you find the match, do you have > >an eye for > >that or is there a tool that's handy for this kind of thing? > > You mean you don't have Nadger? > go here quick and get it: > > http://apps.sepulchre.co.uk/nadger/ Great tool, very useful indeed. Thanks. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dPkUHpvrrTa6L5oRApimAKCBg24zGBedJY6OyVHfXIAb1hLXYwCdF0np D9vjJalH2TPIJ4xekhyjIwk= =ug9L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nick at explodingnet.com Thu Feb 21 07:42:01 2002 From: nick at explodingnet.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: <004001c1bad7$32030c00$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> References: <3C74E1A5.2090600@fayec.com> <20020221122956.GB2449@explodingnet.com> <3C74EBE8.60209@fayec.com> <004001c1bad7$32030c00$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> Message-ID: <20020221134453.GD1345@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Vic Wooten declared.... > For what it's worth (and this is contrary to all the suggestions made so > far!), professional photographers "never" release their negatives to their > clients. > > Myself...I would probably let the client have the files. After they've > botched things up...should they decide to work the site on their own, they > will most likely come back to you. It does put a rather different tone on it now I know what an FLA is. I still think you give them to the client but make a 'specially for you' deal out of it. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- www.explodingnet.com | Projects, Forums and + Articles for website owners - -- Nick Wilson -- | and designers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8dPnVHpvrrTa6L5oRAkKkAJ9UNSHiFuIJjZH5SIcu+sJY51HtaACcCErR X4XbEDM1fnEQMSEtqgFZJKY= =9XwQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kristenannfrey at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 07:56:00 2002 From: kristenannfrey at yahoo.com (Kristy Frey) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:56:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Advice needed for setting up making donations on line In-Reply-To: <000201c1bad2$c479a710$0100a8c0@canthainet.com> Message-ID: <20020221134641.10358.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com> > Does any one have any experience of taking donations for charity on > line? I designed and currently maintain 4 different web sites that take online donations/membership payments for the University at Buffalo. > Aside from the usual on line payment such as verisign etc does any one > know of any company or product that can be used for making donations. Is > there anyone who does this without taking a big percentage on > commission? Any leads / advice would be appreciated. There is a hefty cost associated with it though (Merchant account fees, Authorize.net fees...) I do know that PayPal has some nice features for Donation Web sites. Many people knock them, but for the initial startup, I think they are a good place to start. You could contact them to see if they will give your site a break on the fees (you are a charity after all). ===== ---------------------------------------------------------- I apologize for the ads/links below - Yahoo put them there. That's what I get for using free mail ---------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From evolt at perceive.net Thu Feb 21 07:56:10 2002 From: evolt at perceive.net (Eric Vitiello) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:56:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re:ASP Sort Question References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221073129.00a78008@pop.gvtc.com> Message-ID: <02Feb21.083736est.119101@pcbhi266.bhsi.com> -- jay.blanchard at thermon.com [Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:39:19 -0600]: >Eric, you are a genius! I was focused on doing it in the code and was >completely ignorant about the SQL substring function. Thank you! > I wouldn't say I'm a genius. Just experienced =) --- Eric Vitiello Perceive Designs When attempting to display data, always use the top-most tier when managing the data. example: if your script needs a listing, sorted in a certain order, and will not use the data for anything else, have the database sort the data for you, rather than your script. The simplest way always tends to be the most efficient. From webmaster at archetype-it.com Thu Feb 21 07:56:19 2002 From: webmaster at archetype-it.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:56:19 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word to HTML In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221103801.00b25058@mail.archetype-it.com> References: <20020220221640.GD84700@pajunas.com> <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> <007901c1ba5a$3bf1a640$d2dc7dc2@mpgalvin> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221142156.00b1d530@mail.archetype-it.com> At 10:39 21/02/2002 +0100, I wrote: >I went hunting for this on MS's site ... it took a while, so to save >others' time here's the URL I eventually found: > >http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/2000/Msohtmf2.aspx > >I assume this is what you were referring to Allie? I've downloaded it but >haven't tried it yet. Now I have, and I'm underwhelmed. I tested it on a reasonably straightforward Word document of 190Kb (it had a large image in it). Word's "normal" HTML save resulted in a file of almost 500Kb (excluding the image of course!) The "compact" version was a mere ... 270Kb! It still had pages and pages of all those MsoNormal styles in the head section. Conclusion: just stay away! Both Dreamweaver and HTML-Tidy do a better job of cleaning up Word HTML than that. HTH Veronica Yuill mailto:veronicay at archetype-it.com -- "Avant d'?tre simple, tout est difficile" -- From chris at fuzzylizard.com Thu Feb 21 07:56:34 2002 From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (cdj) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:56:34 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: <004001c1bad7$32030c00$0100a8c0@eaglebmv4x6wq9> Message-ID: <000201c1badf$27f6bec0$10906618@cr283847a> -----Original Message----- For what it's worth (and this is contrary to all the suggestions made so far!), professional photographers "never" release their negatives to their clients. On the other hand, commercial photographers regularly release the original transparencies to the client, they just shoot extras so that they can keep a copy. By the way, what country do you live in? In Canada, unless it is explicitly stated in the contract, any work that is commissioned is the sole property of the company doing the commissioning. Therefore, the client owns the work unless the contract says differently. /chris From richard.bennett at skynet.be Thu Feb 21 08:00:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? References: Message-ID: <006c01c1badf$ff37e0d0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi, Thanks Michael, David, Vic and Olly. I think it might not be the driver causing the problems, I installed the S3mini.sys driver, which was installed ok, but the card gives an error, with the message: This device cannot start. (Code 10) Click Troubleshooter to start the troubleshooter for this device. I think the problem might be because the card is in the first PCI slot, but in the APG slot I have a matrix dual-head card. This was working ok under winME - but not under win2k anymore. I thought it might be a conflict thing, but under "Resources" it just says: "This device isn't using any resources because it has a problem" I tried to different S3 cards, with the same result. Thanks, Richard. PS - Using Evolt newsgroup seemed like a good idea, except it seems when you post a message to the newsgroup, it doesn't show up on the email list. From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 08:09:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:09:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Advice needed for setting up making donations on line Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Also be aware that PayPal's clip on the fees is pretty high for small sums because of the fixed sum element. Cheers Martin To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Advice needed for setting up making donations on line I do know that PayPal has some nice features for Donation Web sites. Many people knock them, but for the initial startup, I think they are a good place to start. You could contact them to see if they will give your site a break on the fees (you are a charity after all). --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From bethbejeck at earthlink.net Thu Feb 21 08:22:00 2002 From: bethbejeck at earthlink.net (Bill Bejeck) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] NN 4.X and UL/LI Message-ID: <000301c1bae3$11ea6100$861e5aa6@billb> I am having trouble with using HTML tags
and
in Navigator 4.5. Basically, I can't get
text to shift to the right, all text aligns to the left with the
tag. I know this is very basic stuff, but it works fine in IE and NN6. Any suggestions on how to work around this? Thanks, Bill From darren at web-bitch.co.uk Thu Feb 21 08:27:03 2002 From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:27:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP on members.evolt.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221134352.03b00aa0@mail.archetype-it.com> References: <3C7416E5.4090207@members.evolt.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020221134352.03b00aa0@mail.archetype-it.com> Message-ID: <14618003127.20020221142719@web-bitch.co.uk> On 21 February 2002 at 12:47:39, Webmaster wrote: W> At 19:19 21/02/2002 +0700, you wrote: >>But I don't do ASP. But I'm willing to learn. Do you have links that you >>recommend so I can learn >>ASP especially using JScript and not VBScript. Because I've read somewhere >>that >>ASP using JScript is faster than ASP using VBScript. W> Almost all online resources that I'm aware of use VBScript for their W> examples ... good for beginners are: one good site that uses jscript is james shaw's: http://coveryourasp.com/ you can download the code for the whole site. you'll find that 99% of examples elsewhere are in vbscript, so make sure you have the ms scripting docs... http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sample.asp?url=/msdn-files/027/001/733/msdncompositedoc.xml hth, darren From ben at inchima.com Thu Feb 21 08:28:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] basic DHTML - collapsing DIVs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i am trying my hand at some DHTML. i basically have a number of DIVs in sequence, and have a button on each that shows/hides each DIV.
div content

div content i have written code that shows and hides the contents of each div, but i would like each div to collapse as well, so that the div below it is moved up. example: --DIV A-- --DIV B-- --DIV C-- if i hide DIV B, this happend... --DIV A-- --DIV C-- i would like this to happen... --DIV A-- --DIV C-- any pointers and tips welcome... benji inchima.com From headlemur at clearskymail.com Thu Feb 21 08:29:00 2002 From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:29:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? References: <006c01c1badf$ff37e0d0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <017d01c1bae3$ebf92200$0200a8c0@clearskybroadband.com> > I think the problem might be because the card is in the first PCI slot, but > in the APG slot I have a matrix dual-head card. Check the BIOS for Video detection the choices are AGP or PCI select the correct setting, save, and reboot. From bigpant at btinternet.com Thu Feb 21 08:32:00 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (BT Bigpant) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript "onKeyPress" problem In-Reply-To: <00e301c1b988$99a78cf0$2860398a@newcos.com> Message-ID: > Change your inequality operators (!=) to equality operators (==) and your return false to return true or use && instead of || ie (x != 1 AND x != 2...) if any of the expressions are true, it will return true; if x = 10 then (x != 1 || x != 2) will evaluate true. You should only use multiple OR's with equality expressions and AND's with inequality expressions. These are effectively the same: (x != 1 AND x != 2) !(x == 1 OR x == 2) if x is 1 or 2, it returns false, otherwise it returns true. HTH Phil Parker From mark at mountain.ch Thu Feb 21 08:42:01 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] basic DHTML - collapsing DIVs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > i have written code that shows and hides the contents of each div, but i > would like each div to collapse as well, so that the div below it is moved > up. Use the CSS display property... display:none display:block There's a fuller list of acceptable values for this property at . Regards Mark Howells From Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com Thu Feb 21 08:46:01 2002 From: Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: ASP on members.evolt.org Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Do you have links that you recommend so I can learn > ASP especially using JScript and not VBScript. > Because I've read somewhere that ASP using JScript > is faster than ASP using VBScript. > > Thanks, > > Dewara Sianipar A good site for learning ASP using JScript/JavaScript is http://www.coveryourasp.com . You can download the entire site and run it on your machine, if you so desire. --Ben From nicole at parrot.ca Thu Feb 21 09:04:01 2002 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Gonna Bust up my Pc in a minute References: Message-ID: <012301c1bae9$071ef460$b700a8c0@videotron.ca> > Is there something in Access that makes the date US format? Yes. there is. Access keeps all internal dates as US. I banged my head against this often, because I either develop for the French market or for the Australian market. Rarely for the US one, unless it's a global project. I've developped a few helper functions in ASP, that I still have somewhere.. I'm moving to PHP now, (and away from Access ;-) but my best advice to you is to develop (or ask me nicely) for helper functions. It will save your sanity! Nicole From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk Thu Feb 21 09:07:01 2002 From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED)) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] access db on UNIX? Message-ID: Hi all can someone confirm something? Are MS Access databases platform independent i.e. can they be used to connect to on a UNIX box if ChilliASP is installed? tia Julian The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible. From djc at members.evolt.org Thu Feb 21 09:11:01 2002 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? References: <006c01c1badf$ff37e0d0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <3C750CAA.4070407@members.evolt.org> Ya, I don't think chris has a gateway to come *back* to us, and thats ok. Just do a reply to all, or send it directly back to thelist at lists :) .djc. Richard Bennett wrote: > PS - Using Evolt newsgroup seemed like a good idea, except it seems when you > post a message to the newsgroup, it doesn't show up on the email list. From brad at beldamar.com Thu Feb 21 09:23:01 2002 From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? In-Reply-To: <006c01c1badf$ff37e0d0$0100a8c0@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: Are you trying to setup a dual display with 2 diffferent cards? I tried doing that a while back. If I remember correctly you cannot use the S3 PCI cards with another AGP card. I spent about 2 months trying to figure out how to get a PCI S3Trio to work with a 3DFX card in the AGP slot. I ended up going out and buying a dual head card and forgetting about the multiple card setup. There is very little support on the MS knowledge base about setting up multiple video cards under Win2k and the only thing I ever found about it was that they had to be cards that were supported in their list. Also one thing to remember that when setting up multiple displays on Win2k you must have the same resolution on both displays. With ME and 98 you could set a different resolution on both monitors. Anyone know if this is fixed in XP? Thanks Brad Miller www.beldamar.com brad at beldamar.com From stef at nota-bene.org Thu Feb 21 09:24:01 2002 From: stef at nota-bene.org (s t e f) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221102901.00baaef0@mail.archetype-it.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221162842.009fa950@mail.nota-bene.org> [[ Mike Hardaker -- 11:50 21/02/02 +0100 ]] >And another, not French, in France... > >--------------------------- >Mike Hardaker >Founder & Publisher - AngloINFO >http://www.angloinfo.com (I'm the same stef as Deschamps St?phane, BTW). Hi Mike, il fait beau dans le sud ? ;-) s t e f From jason at clockmedia.com Thu Feb 21 09:24:12 2002 From: jason at clockmedia.com (Jason Lotito) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:24:12 2002 Subject: [thelist] access db on UNIX? References: Message-ID: <3C7511FD.8080408@clockmedia.com> Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote: >Hi all > >can someone confirm something? Are MS Access databases platform independent >i.e. can they be used to connect to on a UNIX box if ChilliASP is installed? > >tia >Julian > You can connect TO an Access database FROM a Unix server using ODBC, however, Access runs on Windows. Jason Lotito Programmer & Developer ClockMedia Inc. Building tomorrow's games today. www.clockmedia.com From chris at fuseware.com Thu Feb 21 09:25:03 2002 From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:25:03 2002 Subject: Newsgroup (was RE: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000?) In-Reply-To: <3C750CAA.4070407@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <000001c1baeb$f1a9ea10$6401a8c0@VSCLTCOL0054> It is supposed to mirror back to the list. I'll poke around and see what I can figure out. I'll have to search for some tips so I can do real testing, though. Chris Evans chris at fuseware.com http://www.fuseware.com -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Cody Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:05 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] OT S3Trio64 graphics card not suported by win2000? Ya, I don't think chris has a gateway to come *back* to us, and thats ok. Just do a reply to all, or send it directly back to thelist at lists :) .djc. Richard Bennett wrote: > PS - Using Evolt newsgroup seemed like a good idea, except it seems when you > post a message to the newsgroup, it doesn't show up on the email list. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk Thu Feb 21 09:31:01 2002 From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED)) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] access db on UNIX? Message-ID: Sorry - to clarify. If I have an asp page on a UNIX server I can make an ODBC connection to an mdb file residing on that same server and return a recordset. Correct? Providing of course that there is some form of asp installed on the server ;-) J. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Lotito [mailto:jason at clockmedia.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:28 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] access db on UNIX? > > > Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote: > > >Hi all > > > >can someone confirm something? Are MS Access databases > platform independent > >i.e. can they be used to connect to on a UNIX box if > ChilliASP is installed? > > > >tia > >Julian > > > You can connect TO an Access database FROM a Unix server using ODBC, > however, Access runs on Windows. > > Jason Lotito > Programmer & Developer > ClockMedia Inc. > Building tomorrow's games today. > www.clockmedia.com > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible. From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Thu Feb 21 09:33:08 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:33:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] NN6 vs IE 5/6 in CSS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221102657.00b18620@mail.idirect.ca> Is there a comparison list of what can be done in CSS in Netscape 6x over what can also be done in IE5x or 6? When preparing to install Darwin for Intel in a dual boot setup with any version of windows do not place Darwin in a separate partition on the same drive as windows as it tends to wipe the other partitions. Instead, use a separate drive just for Darwin and utilize a third party boot manager to move between them. Peter Kaulback From Andrew.Hardacker at Compuware.com Thu Feb 21 09:35:01 2002 From: Andrew.Hardacker at Compuware.com (Hardacker, Andrew) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS help needed - focus() Message-ID: <715E193E3C34D411806300508B9B2BDE014A07ED@CWUS-BOS-PRI01> I am checking for numeric only values in the input boxes and when a non-numeric character is entered, I popup an alert box. I would ideally like to return focus back to that box. However, I can't seem to figure it out. You can see the code at http://www.redhotsweeps.com/timesheet/ Chris, The only way I've ever gotten this to work properly is to use a timeout. I also use "onchange" rather than "onblur" to initiate the check because if you invoke "focus" programmatically, the browser also fires a "blur" event to the object that's losing focus. It's a vicious circle. You'll have to add an id attribute (or change the name to id. I assume this is an intranet project, so you have some control over the browser.) I notice that an employee can't enter a partial hour (no one at your company works 13.5 hours on a Sunday? Got any openings?) Also, entering a space with a number will cause your check to fail. This check goes a little farther. (I got a little carried away, but had most of this code lying around.) HTH Andy (Still on digest and usually behind. andrew.hardacker at compuware.com) From BreezyGraphics at aol.com Thu Feb 21 09:35:11 2002 From: BreezyGraphics at aol.com (BreezyGraphics at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:35:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... Message-ID: <107.d526d48.29a66dd1@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] In a message dated 2/21/02 8:58:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, thelist-request at lists.evolt.org writes: I was wondering on how you guys deal with a client (considering you outsource to other designers/developers) who asked for the original files (PSD, FLA) you created for the job you got from them... Is it default that we have to hand the original files to them or not? Should I ask for an extra fee for the originals? The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by oneself instead of hiring for it... I state up front in the contract if they are included or not. If it something I am not to worried about getting out I just charge an extra fee, BUT... I have some Fla's that I state FIRMLY would be tantamount to divulging trade secrets and are in no manner to be turned over, duplicated, etc. But you must decide this when writing up the contract. My answer to clients is if you buy a photo from someone you don't "automatically" get to keep the camera! They purchase my product, not the equipment. I am selling them my product not teaching them how to do it. Breezy From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 09:41:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:41:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: content management systems? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] RE: content management systems? >Before you decide on a CMS, do a little cost analysis on the product >based on the following criteria: >1. does this CMS exactly meet my needs? Or rather, 'how exactly does it meet the needs which I can forsee at the moment?' 1a. How much do the needs which it doesn't support actually matter? 1b. How much would it cost (time and money both) to get it to exactly meet my needs? 1c. *Now* how much do I care? So you do a balancing act between being perfect and being affordable and likely to be launched in what is inevitably a restricted timescale, and set your project scope and budget accordingly. >3. how quickly can it be tailored, installed, and integrated? And usually, that's the expensive bit for the client. Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From nicole at parrot.ca Thu Feb 21 09:42:00 2002 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:42:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) References: Message-ID: <016101c1baee$5b30eb80$b700a8c0@videotron.ca> And here, French, but not in France :) Or rather French speaking... BTW the province of Qu?bec has its own awards but for the life of me, I can't remember its name. I am also unsure if if only covers Quebec, or if it's the whole French internet world. I'll investigate Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hardaker" > And another, not French, in France... From nicole at parrot.ca Thu Feb 21 09:45:01 2002 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] access db on UNIX? References: Message-ID: <016f01c1baee$d2b75ea0$b700a8c0@videotron.ca> From: "Scarlett Julian (ED)" > Sorry - to clarify. If I have an asp page on a UNIX server I can make an > ODBC connection to an mdb file residing on that same server and return a > recordset. Correct? Providing of course that there is some form of asp > installed on the server ;-) Nope. Access is totally indepedent of ASP. It doesn't matter if you have ASP installed on the Unix server. Access will not run on it. What *could* make Access run on a *nix box is a Windows Emulator, and I don't know if there is any for Unix. What you *can* do is run your ASP pages on Unix via Chilisoft, and use ODBC to connect to your access database which would run on a Windows machine. Access is a compiled program, to the same extent as Microsoft Word. And you can't run Microsoft Word on a *nix box, right? From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 09:49:00 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:49:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? >I use Zope as a "all in one" replacement of a custom made php solution. >Altough it is not an out of the box cms, using for example the cmf >(content management framework) can help a lot to build something on top >of it. ...particularly if you're building a membership-based site where members will publish in their own sandbox. The hard bit is making it not look like an a CMF site - while you can customise your own themes (info in the ZWACK book), mostly they're pretty much the same as the default one. >Imho all cms'es require a lot of customization anyway, Yes, they will, as every site is different. Unless you have a site which is so generic that you can do that with - many of those will either be simple shopping catalogues/checkout or portals (hence the success of the slashcode). Once you want to start attaching real content in any kind of structure, you'll need to start being site-specific. Take a look at http://www.malts.com/ Much of the shopping front-end functionality is pretty standard, although of course, the products in question have their own data requirements, but the rest of the site needed a lot of customised development. >so it's better to >roll you own tool using something like zope which lets you "construct" >an app. using differents building blocks. Nearly all grown-up CMSs do this - they're toolkits which you need to layer stuff on top of which relate to your specific needs. And if they're half-way sensible, then you can define your own building blocks either from primitives (right the way down to Java/Python/Perl/VB/whatever code) or from their provided composites. This will let you re-use a lot of code (which is why anything OOPish is good) between related sites... CM best practise suggests that you usually shouldn't need separate sites for Intranet(s), Extranet(s) and Internet sites as they're often just different views on the same content. You should just have content assets and apply a range of access rights and presentation rules to them. The job of the CMS developer is normally that of an integrator - getting everything to play nicely together and integrate into whatever else needs to talk to them. And of course, you'll need to do a bit of customisation as mentioned above. But that's absolutely not the same as writing a CMS from scratch. Doing that for each client sounds like a great way to burn budgets and timescales without much benefit out of the end of it. Most packaged CMSs and linked packaged products (eg Vignette, together with Verity, as a front end to an ERP like SAP to pick a high-end product set, and similar bundles could be put together at a lower end) now can do*enough* of the things you'll need for nearly any purpose (and almost *all* of the supporting functionality like searching, user/security management, workflow etc) that unless you want to compete as a vendor, you just wouldn't ever write one from scratch for a client. Take the discussion we've just had on user login management with PHP. If you have a CMS and you're worrying about getting that working, you're doing something very, very wrong. While it may be interesting and useful to *see* how your solution does this (particularly when evaluating products), you wouldn't ever need to do it. Take Zope for example - you set up roles. You set up actions users could do (and many are prebuilt). You assign users to roles, and specify which roles can do which actions. And the rest is taken care of. If it doesn't work, then you sue the vendor (or rather, threaten it, get a lump of cash in compensation and they fix it for you). Other than the personal sense of achievement, why would you want to do that for yourself? And why would a paying client want you to develop it from scratch? Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com Thu Feb 21 09:49:15 2002 From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:49:15 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? Message-ID: Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers -------------------- Start of message text -------------------- To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] content management systems? >currently we have a home-spun software pushing setup that's been patched >and forced to handle the content flow for the rest of the site. Ouch. I'm glad you're taking action *before* you hit a brick wall. > we are at >the point of deciding to invest more resources to developing what is >currently available into a workable "real" CMS with the bells and whistles >that one would expect or to go with a off the shelf solution. It would be a very rare situation where you'll get as much value for money from developing your own one compared to customising someone else's. Let someone else do the bugfinding/fixing (ideally 2 releases ago). Cheers Martin --------------------- End of message text -------------------- This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info Thu Feb 21 09:51:00 2002 From: shaunanderson at shaunanderson.info (Shaun Anderson) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:51:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site problem w/ Mac OS 8 & IE 4.5 Message-ID: <001101c1baef$acac2f00$680110ac@shauna> We've had a couple of customers mention to us that one of our forms won't let them submit. They're both using: an iMac w/ OS 8, and IE 4.5. We tested this on an iMac with OS 8.6, and IE 4.0 (closest thing we have around here), but we couldn't replicate the problem. It worked fine. There is some JavaScript validation on the form that appears to be causing the problem. One says that when she hits submit, the JavaScript validation gets stuck on "you must select one of the onsite demo options" When she does select one, it still asks her to "select one of the onsite demo options". It doesn't matter if she says yes or no. The other lady reports almost the same thing. We've never heard of this problem before, but it's exactly the same form template as 30 other forms that we've been using for almost 6 months. If someone has this configuration and wouldn't mind helping me out, the form in question is: http://www.smarttech.com/case Thanks, Shaun From ben at inchima.com Thu Feb 21 09:53:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] basic DHTML - collapsing DIVs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Use the CSS display property... > > display:none > display:block > > There's a fuller list of acceptable values for this property at > . thanks mark, much appreciated. my first step on what looks like a long learning road... benji inchima.com From david_kutcher at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 09:54:04 2002 From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:54:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... References: <107.d526d48.29a66dd1@aol.com> Message-ID: So they want you to give up your "special sauce"? If the client wants the PSD's and original files, I would say that it is definitely a contract issue that you should be aware of when you're writing and signing the contract. And if the clients want the files at the end of the project, there should be a reasonable fee attached. This is what is in your contract under the section header "Deliverables" Make sure you clearly spell this out. It becomes more difficult to discuss this with a client after the fact. I've sold my PSD's and other templates to clients, but only after clearly spelling out that I would be "creating" future templates for them .html format, .psd, and more. This adds a few hours to your contract, and in addition, add a reasonable fee for the service since you're selling your original work. I try to stick to the percentage of 5-10% of the entire project cost and explain why. David www.confluentforms.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > In a message dated 2/21/02 8:58:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, > thelist-request at lists.evolt.org writes: > I was wondering on how you guys deal with a client (considering you > outsource to other designers/developers) who asked for the original > files (PSD, FLA) you created for the job you got from them... > Is it default that we have to hand the original files to them or not? > Should I ask for an extra fee for the originals? > The reason why I am asking is that handing the original files (specially > FLAs) to a client is like losing a job as the file is pretty > self-explanatory and one would learn how it was done and do it again by > oneself instead of hiring for it... > > I state up front in the contract if they are included or not. > If it something I am not to worried about getting out I just charge an extra > fee, BUT... > > I have some Fla's that I state FIRMLY would be tantamount to divulging trade > secrets and are in no manner to be turned over, duplicated, etc. But you must > decide this when writing up the contract. My answer to clients is if you buy > a photo from someone you don't "automatically" get to keep the camera! They > purchase my product, not the equipment. I am selling them my product not > teaching them how to do it. Breezy > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From matt at mattwenham.co.uk Thu Feb 21 10:00:01 2002 From: matt at mattwenham.co.uk (Matt Wenham) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... References: <107.d526d48.29a66dd1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C7519A8.E9EF2B75@mattwenham.co.uk> > I have some Fla's that I state FIRMLY would be tantamount to divulging > trade secrets ... Try being a contract programmer and not handing over source code... which is effectively what you're doing by retaining the FLAs. Just wouldn't happen. Matt... From mccreath at ak.net Thu Feb 21 10:00:10 2002 From: mccreath at ak.net (mccreath) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:00:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site problem w/ Mac OS 8 & IE 4.5 In-Reply-To: <001101c1baef$acac2f00$680110ac@shauna> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Shaun Anderson > > We've had a couple of customers mention to us that one of our forms won't > let them submit. > > They're both using: an iMac w/ OS 8, and IE 4.5. We tested this > on an iMac > with OS 8.6, and IE 4.0 (closest thing we have around here), but > we couldn't > replicate the problem. It worked fine. Hi, Shaun -- I'm not near a Mac right now, but you can grab IE 4.5 from the browser archive: http://browsers.evolt.org/index.cfm/dir/ie/mac/4.5/ David From dan at omnivore.ca Thu Feb 21 10:27:03 2002 From: dan at omnivore.ca (dan donaldson) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:27:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: <000201c1badf$27f6bec0$10906618@cr283847a> Message-ID: On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 08:53 AM, cdj wrote: > By the way, what country do you live in? In > Canada, unless it is explicitly stated in the contract, any work that is > commissioned is the sole property of the company doing the > commissioning. Therefore, the client owns the work unless the contract > says differently. That's true, but it depends on what the work comissioned was. What you are describing is relevant when in an employer/employee situation - what I create if I'm working for you (usually exclusively for you, as a part of your organization) is yours. What I create if I am working for me, and selling the product to you is different, as in a contracted work situation. In Canada, copyright automatically inheres to the creator of the work. Given that you create lots of things along the way to creating the finished product, it isn't automatically the case that the client owns the source material you used to create the thing the client bought. For instance, what if you were working for two clients and decided to use the same code in your fla files to run some part of the Flash in both projects? The clients buy the use of your code, but not the code. Otherwise, they'd both own it, presumably outright. That isn't necessarily fraud, but it's close. Same is true with licensed material. I'm currently using a Director Xtra for a client. If I pay for that Xtra, then it's mine. The license allows me to include it in Director presentations, so I can include the use of it for my client, but not the thing itself. I then have to amortize the cost over several jobs, perhaps for other clients. If the client picks up the tab for the Xtra, I definitely don't have the right to use it in my other jobs. In effect, the fla files are material that, unless otherwise specified in the contract, the client has the use of, but does not own. The phrase 'the use of' means in the case of the the Flash file the swf, not the fla. In the case of the Photoshop file, it would be a flattened version of the image, not the layered image, all the actions, stock photography, fonts, etc. etc. On the other hand, in my current project, I wrote into the contract that all the programming developed specifically for the project was the client's property when completed. It made them happy, and shows good faith, but it is not a given. just my fiftieth of a dollar. My first tip: Clarify with your client what it is that they get when entering into a new contract. Be aware of what rights of ownership copyright law gives you and them, and do your best to understand what the client really needs in terms of rights to your work at the outset. Most clients, especially ones without much experience developing web or other creative projects, will assume that they need all rights to everything. But this should come at a premium. Just as photographers don't release their negatives, but allow publication rights (one time, time-bound etc.) to their images, so you should educate your client and help them understand what the range of use of your work they really need is. Remember that if you sell rights to a client, and then re-use the work in another project, the client may have recourse against you. No-one likes to learn that what they shouldered the development costs for, a competitor is getting at a lower cost. But the time to determine this is at the outset, not at the end. dan donaldson From dan at omnivore.ca Thu Feb 21 10:29:33 2002 From: dan at omnivore.ca (dan donaldson) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:29:33 2002 Subject: [thelist] Client asked for original files..... In-Reply-To: <3C7519A8.E9EF2B75@mattwenham.co.uk> Message-ID: <7E70E8DC-26E3-11D6-B5F0-0050E430F735@omnivore.ca> On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 11:00 AM, Matt Wenham wrote: > Try being a contract programmer and not handing over source code... > which is effectively what you're doing by retaining the FLAs. Just > wouldn't happen. That's the case when you work for another organization, and will say so in the contract you sign. But if you're a third party business, creating work as an independent company for multiple clients, it's a different situation. dan From jonas at halogen.com Thu Feb 21 10:29:44 2002 From: jonas at halogen.com (Jonas Bohlin) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:29:44 2002 Subject: [thelist] NN6 vs IE 5/6 in CSS Message-ID: try http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/ and probably here somewhere http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/technotes/ this one actually seems right to the point... DOM CSS 2 Property Cross Reference http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/technotes/xref/dom-css-style-o bject/ -jonas -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kaulback [mailto:pkaulbak at idirect.ca] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:33 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] NN6 vs IE 5/6 in CSS Is there a comparison list of what can be done in CSS in Netscape 6x over what can also be done in IE5x or 6? When preparing to install Darwin for Intel in a dual boot setup with any version of windows do not place Darwin in a separate partition on the same drive as windows as it tends to wipe the other partitions. Instead, use a separate drive just for Darwin and utilize a third party boot manager to move between them. Peter Kaulback -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From websavant at sirenwire.net Thu Feb 21 10:29:53 2002 From: websavant at sirenwire.net (Kimberly Carroll) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:29:53 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site problem w/ Mac OS 8 & IE 4.5 In-Reply-To: <001101c1baef$acac2f00$680110ac@shauna> Message-ID: Shaun, It appears that IE 4.5 is the culprit and not the OS 8. I am running Mac OS 9.0.2 on a powerbook G3. IE 4.5 gives me the same "you must select an onsite demo" error although I've completed the form properly. Another thing to note - zip code is not marked required (*) but is included in the validation. Kimberly From david_kutcher at hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 10:30:05 2002 From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:30:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] content management systems? References: Message-ID: Martin, While brining a highend solutions like Vignette into the picture, you're immediately bringing the cost of the project to $100,000 US to $500,000 before integration or training even starts. Yes, we're talking about a corporate solution, but almost 2/3's of the companies that I've seen convinced into purchasing a license for Vignette StoryServer, Blue Martini, Interwoven, or any of the others were also convinced they needed a brand new server to run it, licenses for Oracle 8i+, and more... when clearly this was an overkill and cost a cool half a mil. Solutions like these do make sense in some situations, especially when connecting to legacy systems or for massive publishing needs (I worked with FoxNews to integrate Vignette). But for the majority of instances out there, I've found that "home rolled" solutions on a VA Linux server using PHP and MySQL sufficed. David www.confluentforms.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] content management systems? > >so it's better to > >roll you own tool using something like zope which lets you "construct" > >an app. using differents building blocks. > Nearly all grown-up CMSs do this - they're toolkits which you need to > layer stuff on > top of which relate to your specific needs. And if they're half-way > sensible, then you > can define your own building blocks either from primitives (right the way > down to > Java/Python/Perl/VB/whatever code) or from their provided composites. > Most packaged CMSs and linked packaged products (eg Vignette, together with > Verity, as a front end to an ERP like SAP to pick a high-end product set, > and > similar bundles could be put together at a lower end) now can do*enough* of > the things you'll need for nearly any purpose (and almost *all* of the > supporting > functionality like searching, user/security management, workflow etc) that > unless > you want to compete as a vendor, you just wouldn't ever write one from > scratch > for a client. > Other than > the personal sense of achievement, why would you want to do that for > yourself? And why would a paying client want you to develop it from > scratch? > > Cheers > Martin From mike at angloinfo.com Thu Feb 21 10:39:00 2002 From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] awards in french? (RE: High profile awards) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221162842.009fa950@mail.nota-bene.org> Message-ID: Tout a fait! > Hi Mike, > > il fait beau dans le sud ? ;-) (ahem! Deserves a tip) If you want search engines to spider your site (you *do* want that, don't you?) don't do the same thing as the person who's recently modified a site I designed a while back. The new index.htmal contains this, and this alone: --------------------------- New Page 1 ----------------------------------------- To see what a spider sees, try running this with Javascript turned off - the only bits that render are: New Page 1 Valid HTML, yes (although I'd rather use CSS than "bgcolor", myself) - but, in essence, the entire site has been shut off from the world of search engines... If you *must* do client-side browser detection/redirect stuff, have a