From evolt at mccullough-net.com Mon Oct 18 07:39:03 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:39:03 -0500 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect Message-ID: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> What I have started to do is in my jsp page is to put in some browser detection, I need to redirect based on what browser you have. So for Netscape 4.7, generation 6, earlier IE versions and so on. CODE: ################################################################# <%@ page import="javax.servlet.*" %> <% String browserType = request.getHeader("User-Agent"); String browser = new String(""); String version = new String(""); browserType = browserType.toLowerCase(); if(browserType != null ){ if((browserType.indexOf("msie") != -1)){ browser = "Explorer"; String tempStr = browserType.substring(browserType.indexOf("msie"),browserType.length()); version = tempStr.substring(4,tempStr.indexOf(";")); } if ((browserType.indexOf("mozilla") != -1) && (browserType.indexOf("spoofer") == -1) && (browserType.indexOf("compatible") == -1)) { if (browserType.indexOf("firefox") != -1) { browser = "Firefox"; int verPos = browserType.indexOf("/"); if(verPos != -1) version = browserType.substring(verPos+1,verPos + 5); } else if (browserType.indexOf("netscape") != -1) { browser = "Netscape"; int verPos = browserType.indexOf("/"); if(verPos != -1) version = browserType.substring(verPos+1,verPos + 5); } else { browser = "Mozilla"; int verPos = browserType.indexOf("/"); if(verPos != -1) version = browserType.substring(verPos+1,verPos + 5); } } if (browserType.indexOf("opera") != -1) { browser = "Opera"; } if (browserType.indexOf("safari") != -1) { browser = "Safari"; } if (browserType.indexOf("konqueror") != -1) { browser = "Konqueror"; } } %> <%=browser%>
<%=version%>

<%=browserType %>

####################################################################### Help :) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From hassan at webtuitive.com Mon Oct 18 10:23:34 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:23:34 -0700 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect In-Reply-To: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > What I have started to do is in my jsp page is to put in some browser detection, > I need to redirect based on what browser you have. So for Netscape 4.7, > generation 6, earlier IE versions and so on. > > CODE: ################################################################# > Help :) with what, exactly? -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From evolt at mccullough-net.com Mon Oct 18 11:08:57 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:08:57 -0500 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect In-Reply-To: <4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> References: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> <4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <1098115737.4173ea992f223@webmail.mccullough-net.com> What I ended up doing was writting a bean. ############################################################## package com.dynamic.logic; import java.io.Serializable; import javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest; public final class DetectBrowser implements Serializable { private HttpServletRequest request = null; private String useragent = null; private boolean netEnabled = false; private boolean ie = false; private boolean ns6 = false; private boolean ns7 = false; private boolean op = false; private boolean moz = false; private boolean ns4 = false; public void setRequest(HttpServletRequest req) { request = req; useragent = request.getHeader("User-Agent"); String user = useragent.toLowerCase(); if(user.indexOf("msie") != -1) { ie = true; } else if(user.indexOf("netscape6") != -1) { ns6 = true; } else if(user.indexOf("netscape/7") != -1) { ns7 = true; } else if(user.indexOf("opera") != -1) { op = true; } else if(user.indexOf("gecko/2004") != -1) { moz = true; } else if(user.indexOf("mozilla/4.7") != -1) { ns4 = true; } if(user.indexOf(".net clr") != -1) netEnabled = true; } public String getUseragent() { return useragent; } public boolean isNetEnabled() { return netEnabled; } public boolean isIE() { return ie; } public boolean isNS7() { return ns7; } public boolean isNS6() { return ns6; } public boolean isOP() { return op; } public boolean isMOZ() { return moz; } public boolean isNS4() { return ns4; } } ############################################################## to detect the user-agent string for the various browsers, Mozilla, Firefox and Netscape have very similar strings, and since I wanted to allow Mozilla and Firefox, it took me more trial and error to get it right. Quoting Hassan Schroeder : > evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > > What I have started to do is in my jsp page is to put in some browser > detection, > > I need to redirect based on what browser you have. So for Netscape 4.7, > > generation 6, earlier IE versions and so on. > > > > CODE: ################################################################# > > > > > Help :) > > with what, exactly? > > -- > Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com > Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com > > dream. code. > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Mon Oct 18 11:44:31 2004 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:44:31 +0200 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect In-Reply-To: <1098115737.4173ea992f223@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> <4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> <1098115737.4173ea992f223@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <4173F2EF.30209@kasimir-k.fi> > } else if(user.indexOf("gecko/2004") != -1) { > moz = true; How about Gecko in 2005? You could take the four characters after "gecko/" and check it's a number > 2003. .k From cgeorge at basecorp.com Mon Oct 18 12:45:13 2004 From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:45:13 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video Message-ID: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A55A@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> Hi everyone, We have a client that currently has 8 video clips ranging from 5-11 mins on their site. The current setup is that it's in Flash (MX) as and imported FLV (providing us decent compression, easily-skinnable controls, and no additional plugins). However, they're between 6-12mb, depending on the length of the clips, and the wait can get very annoying, especially on congested DSL connections. We're pricing out other options, one of which would be streaming. Our host provides some packages, but they're too lightweight for what we're looking for. We also have an rfq in to VitalStream, so that's still pending. My questions are: Does anyone recommend streaming? Is there a provider that stands out as reliable and full-featured? Are there other solutions out there that _aren't_ streaming but that would provide us with a similar user experience? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Chris. From dudrenov at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 13:15:07 2004 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:15:07 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video In-Reply-To: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A55A@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> References: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A55A@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> Message-ID: <10c3e4e00410181115246027a7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Well the dirtyest and the cheapest fix is to try to change the preloader of the flash file it's self. Instead of strating to play when 100% is preloaded. Try to start playing at 75% or 50%...... Play with it. This is by no way perfect, but only the quick fix. Later, Pavel On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:45:13 -0600, Chris George wrote: > Hi everyone, > > We have a client that currently has 8 video clips ranging from 5-11 mins > on their site. The current setup is that it's in Flash (MX) as and > imported FLV (providing us decent compression, easily-skinnable > controls, and no additional plugins). However, they're between 6-12mb, > depending on the length of the clips, and the wait can get very > annoying, especially on congested DSL connections. > > We're pricing out other options, one of which would be streaming. Our > host provides some packages, but they're too lightweight for what we're > looking for. We also have an rfq in to VitalStream, so that's still > pending. > > My questions are: > > Does anyone recommend streaming? > > Is there a provider that stands out as reliable and full-featured? > > Are there other solutions out there that _aren't_ streaming but that > would provide us with a similar user experience? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Chris. > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From court3nay at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 14:16:17 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:16:17 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video In-Reply-To: <10c3e4e00410181115246027a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A55A@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> <10c3e4e00410181115246027a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f041018121657293444@mail.gmail.com> Have you looked at Quicktime? http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/streaming/ On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:15:07 -0700, Pavel Dudrenov wrote: > Hi, > > Well the dirtyest and the cheapest fix is to try to change the > preloader of the flash file it's self. Instead of strating to play > when 100% is preloaded. Try to start playing at 75% or 50%...... Play > with it. This is by no way perfect, but only the quick fix. > > Later, > Pavel > > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:45:13 -0600, Chris George wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > We have a client that currently has 8 video clips ranging from 5-11 mins > > on their site. The current setup is that it's in Flash (MX) as and > > imported FLV (providing us decent compression, easily-skinnable > > controls, and no additional plugins). However, they're between 6-12mb, > > depending on the length of the clips, and the wait can get very > > annoying, especially on congested DSL connections. > > > > We're pricing out other options, one of which would be streaming. Our > > host provides some packages, but they're too lightweight for what we're > > looking for. We also have an rfq in to VitalStream, so that's still > > pending. > > > > My questions are: > > > > Does anyone recommend streaming? > > > > Is there a provider that stands out as reliable and full-featured? > > > > Are there other solutions out there that _aren't_ streaming but that > > would provide us with a similar user experience? > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Chris. > > -- > > > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From cgeorge at basecorp.com Mon Oct 18 14:47:48 2004 From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:47:48 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video Message-ID: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A568@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> > Hi, > > Well the dirtyest and the cheapest fix is to try to change > the preloader of the flash file it's self. Instead of > strating to play when 100% is preloaded. Try to start playing > at 75% or 50%...... Play with it. This is by no way perfect, > but only the quick fix. > > Later, > Pavel Yeah, I think I'm going to have to fudge that for now, but I'm not sure if it'll work as a long-term solution... From paul at web-business-pack.com Mon Oct 18 14:48:02 2004 From: paul at web-business-pack.com (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:48:02 +1300 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect In-Reply-To: <4173F2EF.30209@kasimir-k.fi> References: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com> <4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> <1098115737.4173ea992f223@webmail.mccullough-net.com> <4173F2EF.30209@kasimir-k.fi> Message-ID: <41741DF2.9080201@web-business-pack.com> browser sniffing is bound to cause future headache - it's a maintenance nightmare and general Bad Practice (tm). Why not just use things like the simple CSS '@import' rule? http://bennettpr.blogspot.com/2004/10/is-browser-sniffing-dead.html Kasimir K wrote: > >> } else if(user.indexOf("gecko/2004") != -1) { >> moz = true; > > > How about Gecko in 2005? You could take the four characters after > "gecko/" and check it's a number > 2003. > > .k > From cgeorge at basecorp.com Mon Oct 18 14:52:10 2004 From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:52:10 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video Message-ID: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A569@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> > Have you looked at Quicktime? > > http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/streaming/ Funny you mention that. We're primarily a Windows house, delivering using asp.net and even _hinting_ that we might be using an open source streaming solution is borderline heresy. :-p From symeon at systasis.com Mon Oct 18 18:17:21 2004 From: symeon at systasis.com (Symeon Charalabides) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:17:21 -0200 Subject: [thelist] Apache mod_rewrite In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f041018121657293444@mail.gmail.com> References: <10c3e4e00410181115246027a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417432E1.18679.207BC91@localhost> Hi all, Since I'm running my own web server to serve my latest website, I'd like to be able to serve generic filenames without their extensions. To be more specific, I'd like to publish links such as http://cal.it.nuigalway.ie/members and Apache to serve the page http://cal.it.nuigalway.ie/members.php Of course, this has to also work when there are GET variables involved, such as http://cal.it.nuigalway.ie/members.php?id=987654433 The object of this venture is twofold: - casual observers cannot tell that mod_php is installed on the system and - if I switch to another technology such as .jsp or .asp in the future (as ludicrous as it may sound), people's links and bookmarks won't be broken. I've seen this approach before (Amazon does it, for one) and it looks like a job for the Apache module mod_rewrite. Has anybody any experience with this method? Thanks in advance, Symeon Charalabides (cosmopolite trainee) ------------------------------------------------- http://www.systasis.com From brian at hondaswap.com Mon Oct 18 15:55:45 2004 From: brian at hondaswap.com (brian cummiskey) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:55:45 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Apache mod_rewrite In-Reply-To: <417432E1.18679.207BC91@localhost> References: <10c3e4e00410181115246027a7@mail.gmail.com> <417432E1.18679.207BC91@localhost> Message-ID: <41742DD1.4090305@hondaswap.com> Symeon Charalabides wrote: > > I've seen this approach before (Amazon does it, for one) and it looks like a job > for the Apache module mod_rewrite. Has anybody any experience with this method? > have a look at these articles: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slashforward/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/succeed/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/urls/ http://www.sitepoint.com/article/mod_rewrite-no-endless-loops From casey at thecrookstons.com Mon Oct 18 16:18:48 2004 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:18:48 -0500 Subject: [thelist] asp.net: using a form button as a link Message-ID: <017c01c4b558$0f2578c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> I've got a pdf file users may want to download. How does one format a form button to download the file? Thanks, Casey From evolt at muinar.com Mon Oct 18 14:24:37 2004 From: evolt at muinar.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:24:37 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Website in Multiple Languages In-Reply-To: <00f601c4b304$eb54a290$9865fea9@OnPoint.local> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20041018211829.020caa48@mail.muinar.com> At 15:18 15.10.2004 -0700, you wrote: >As a general matter, what methods are used to present content in >multiple languages? I was thinking some sort of CMS where the data is >stored in a db and translated "on the fly" into the appropriate >language -- but I'm new to this area. Hi Bob You can't really translate content by software. Try for an example translating a paragraph with the Google translator into Spanish and then back to English. You'll see what I mean ;) Once you have your two versions, you can append a string like ?lang=es or ?lang=en to your page addresses and serve the appropriate text strings from the database. Cheers Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ From peter at easylistbox.com Mon Oct 18 17:00:58 2004 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:00:58 -0500 Subject: [thelist] asp.net: using a form button as a link In-Reply-To: <017c01c4b558$0f2578c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <006901c4b55d$f3577e80$0300a8c0@monkeyhouse> Do you just want it to act exactly like a link? If that's the case, why not use a regular HTML button? (you can even add a runat="server" if you like) Of course if you want it to post back to the server and initiate some kind of streaming action there, that's another story. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org On Behalf Of Casey Crookston I've got a pdf file users may want to download. How does one format a form button to download the file? Thanks, Casey From helen at helephant.com Mon Oct 18 17:32:44 2004 From: helen at helephant.com (Helen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:32:44 +0100 Subject: [thelist] asp.net: using a form button as a link In-Reply-To: <017c01c4b558$0f2578c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <017c01c4b558$0f2578c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <4174448C.80501@helephant.com> Does it have to be a form button? It might be easier to use some stylesheet code to make your link just look like a button. your link: download my file in your stylesheet: a.button { border: 1px black solid; background-color: gray; padding: 5px; text-decoration: none; } Helen Casey Crookston wrote: >I've got a pdf file users may want to download. How does one format a form >button to download the file? > > > >Thanks, > >Casey > > > > From evolt at matchpenalty.com Mon Oct 18 18:49:01 2004 From: evolt at matchpenalty.com (Roger Ly) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:49:01 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Aligning an image to the bottom of multiple lines of text in CSS Message-ID: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> Hey all, Any thoughts on how to accomplish the following with CSS and no tables? ============================= ---- | | | | | | this is some text | | that is aligned to | | the bottom of an image. ---- how to do this? www.mydomain.com ============================== There is an image on the left, which is vertically aligned to the bottom of the multi-line text on its right. Directly underneath both, is a link which is aligned to the left of the image. Both the image and the link need to be hyperlinked. I can't seem to get any good alignment going. The best thing I could come up with was something like this:
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
But I don't know how I'd get the image to be hyperlinked. Any ideas? TIA Roger From vreeland at studioframework.com Mon Oct 18 19:35:15 2004 From: vreeland at studioframework.com (Robert Vreeland) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:35:15 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Aligning an image to the bottom of multiple lines of textin CSS References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> Message-ID: <00b001c4b573$8113c700$6401a8c0@studioframework> You can do it with absolute positioning and z-index. For example
yada
Robert Vreeland Managing Partner StudioFramework vreeland at studioframework.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Ly" To: Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:49 PM Subject: [thelist] Aligning an image to the bottom of multiple lines of textin CSS > Hey all, > > Any thoughts on how to accomplish the following with CSS and no tables? > > > ============================= > > ---- > | | > | | > | | this is some text > | | that is aligned to > | | the bottom of an image. > ---- how to do this? > > www.mydomain.com > > ============================== > > There is an image on the left, which is vertically aligned to the bottom > of the multi-line text on its right. Directly underneath both, is a > link which is aligned to the left of the image. Both the image and the > link need to be hyperlinked. > > I can't seem to get any good alignment going. > > The best thing I could come up with was something like this: > >
> >
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
>
>
> > > But I don't know how I'd get the image to be hyperlinked. > > Any ideas? > > TIA > > Roger > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From alex at deltatraffic.co.uk Mon Oct 18 20:07:32 2004 From: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk (Alex Beston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:07:32 +0100 Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> Message-ID: <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> Hi All ok well I wanted to renew the discussion of marketing ideas. Ive been persuaded by the merits of "passive marketing" so no worries there. I met some women at a bar one of whom was a marketing expert and soon put me to rights over what i was doing. Apparently the key first step is to get the client marketed so that his/her customers are seeing what benefits them rather than talking lots about the client. the client has to be somewhat selfless it seems. She mentioned that you have to know your market inside out, amongst other things.[1] I got quite a lecture and she stopped when she realised this. If you have a range of products you focus on a few rather than blasting away with your entire range. Another tip was to find my own customers where i understood their product, again excellent advice. So as i play piano at roughly grade 7 (untested tho') talking to professional musicians might be a good idea. Strangely enough one client on the books is a musician. Did a bit of work for an engineer - have done some degree level chemistry so wasnt too scared esp as went out with a chem engineer - again relationship went well. so its unlikely i would do well pitching for a beauty salon, or a horse riding school etc. Anyway, Im thinking of rewriting my front page to reflect the above ideas plus something like: "we concentrate on core values(?) such as: good organisation, personal service and use of leading technology. " hmm have I left anything out? service, tech, organisation(best use of resources & time) & something which is important. maybe things like marketing? "identifying your market?" surely every website company has to identify markets / customers? any comments welcome. thanks Alex [1] for example, if a woman is using the site she'd not be really that into widgets and fanciness - just clear layout with bright colours and fun to use. a man would have different needs. ive no real idea what the needs of the women and men are but apparently they are different. if im talking to 30 year olds then appealing to their need for self realisation and playing to their ambitions will catch attention / retain attentions. suddenly realised that the advertising for the terrestial channels in the uk are made for different social groups, which is a bit scarey. From list at netpaths.net Mon Oct 18 20:40:34 2004 From: list at netpaths.net (cvos) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:40:34 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Script to allow file downloads Message-ID: I am looking for a script to manage downloads / purchases of mp3 files. This could be integrated into an existing shopping cart. It must be written in PHP. Script must allow users to receive an email with a clickable link to available downloads. Link should remain valid for a specified length of time. Free or paid scripts are fine, but the source code needs to be fully accessible. Many thanks C Vos office: 310-372-3086 http://www.netpaths.net _______________________________________________________ web hosting | search engine marketing | web development From paul at web-business-pack.com Mon Oct 18 22:49:55 2004 From: paul at web-business-pack.com (Paul Bennett) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:49:55 +1300 Subject: [thelist] [php] regexp help Message-ID: <41748EE3.4030506@web-business-pack.com> one day I'm going to buy that OReilly book, but until then: Can someone tell me why this check: if(preg_match("/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+$/i", $value)) {$response['name'] = true;} else {$response['name'] = false;} evaluates to true when $value is something like 'test ^%' - which should return false? thx, Paul B From court3nay at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 00:54:12 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:54:12 -0700 Subject: [thelist] [php] regexp help In-Reply-To: <41748EE3.4030506@web-business-pack.com> References: <41748EE3.4030506@web-business-pack.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410182254573a20fd@mail.gmail.com> Look at www.regexp.info -- it's an amazing resource. I couldn't replicate your problem. In a quick check with javascript in firefox javascript debugger (my quick-n-dirty regexp checker) i did this: 'test ^%'.match(/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+$/) which gave a false answer. 'test 21af34 '.match(/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+$/) gave a true answer. Also, the /i means case insensitive, so the a-zA-Z is redundant, just a-z will do. >From what I could see, the % can act like a URL encoding character thingy (%20 is a space, etc) so it may not being treated as a % symbol. What are you actually trying to check? We might be able to (collectively) write a better regexp! HTH courtenay On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:49:55 +1300, Paul Bennett wrote: > one day I'm going to buy that OReilly book, but until then: > > Can someone tell me why this check: > > if(preg_match("/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+$/i", $value)) > {$response['name'] = true;} > > else {$response['name'] = false;} > > evaluates to true when $value is something like 'test ^%' - which should > return false? > > thx, > Paul B > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From lists at neptunewebworks.com Tue Oct 19 03:23:26 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:23:26 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Aligning an image to the bottom of multiple lines of text in CSS In-Reply-To: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> Message-ID: <4174CEFE.2080109@neptunewebworks.com> Roger Ly wrote: >I can't seem to get any good alignment going. > > How about modifying the markup to give elements ids or classes, like:
yada
blah blah
CSS: #container { position: relative; width: 500px; height:200px; border: 1px solid #ccc; } #myimage { position: absolute; bottom: 0; left: 0; } #inner { position: absolute; right: 0; bottom: 0; width: 350px; } Is that approaching what you're after? If you need #container to be an arbitrary height according to the amount of content, you could use floats instead, and add a "clearing element": How about modifying the markup to give elements ids or classes, like:
yada
blah blah
#container {border: 1px solid #ccc; width: 500px; } #myimage { float: left; margin: 0 1em;} #inner { float: right; width: 350px; } .clearing { clear: both; } -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From john at johnallsopp.co.uk Tue Oct 19 03:36:12 2004 From: john at johnallsopp.co.uk (john at johnallsopp.co.uk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> Message-ID: <50115.82.195.101.197.1098174972.squirrel@82.195.101.197> Hi Alex I can't resist commenting on the dangers of meeting women in bars. But moving on .. > Anyway, Im thinking of rewriting my front page to reflect the above > ideas plus something like: > "we concentrate on core values(?) such as: good organisation, personal > service and use of leading technology. " I read somewhere about the 'so what' test to identify whether you've identified a benefit or not. "I've invented a new frying pan" "So what?" "It's more non stick than anything that's come before it" "So what?" "So when you cook fried eggs, you don't break the yolk when you're trying to get them out, and the washing up is easier" "ahhhhh" A benefit is not a feature. A benefit makes a personal difference to the buyer's life. You have to know your buyers to work out the benefits. Try the so what test with the 'core values' you list. Also, I'm not sure whether using 'leading' technology will persuade anyone. For me, if you were to choose the best way to solve my problem, I'd be happy. I was never happy with software companies that are married to particular technologies, although I accept it's difficult not to be. Cheers J From edwin at bitstorm.org Tue Oct 19 05:14:50 2004 From: edwin at bitstorm.org (Edwin Martin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:14:50 +0200 Subject: [thelist] [php] regexp help In-Reply-To: <41748EE3.4030506@web-business-pack.com> References: <41748EE3.4030506@web-business-pack.com> Message-ID: <4174E91A.7040007@bitstorm.org> Paul Bennett wrote: > one day I'm going to buy that OReilly book, but until then: > > Can someone tell me why this check: > > if(preg_match("/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+$/i", $value)) > {$response['name'] = true;} > else {$response['name'] = false;} > > evaluates to true when $value is something like 'test ^%' - which > should return false? A dollar-sign in a quoted string is used for variable substitution. So, when $a is "john", the string "hello $a" would become "hello john". Since in $/i there is no variable name after $, the $ is substituted with nothing. When you want to keep the dollar, you have to escape it: \$. So the code would become: if (preg_match("/^[a-zA-Z0-9 -\']+\$/i", $value)) { $response['name'] = true; } else { $response['name'] = false; } (I rewrote the code to make it more readable to other programmers.) Edwin Martin -- http://www.bitstorm.org/edwin/en/ From cheryla at labx.com Tue Oct 19 08:05:25 2004 From: cheryla at labx.com (Cheryl Ash) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:05:25 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video Message-ID: <858F9BD79E563F48ABA441785A8DE5C849BAD1@main.geocalm.local> There is a program called Cleaner which can compress video very well. Flash does stream but you might get better results with different file formats or different codecs. Here is the Cleaner web site; I am pretty sure it's available on Mac or PC. http://www.discreet.com/products/cleaner/cleaner6/ Cheryl Ash -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Chris George Sent: October 18, 2004 12:45 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Streaming video Hi everyone, We have a client that currently has 8 video clips ranging from 5-11 mins on their site. The current setup is that it's in Flash (MX) as and imported FLV (providing us decent compression, easily-skinnable controls, and no additional plugins). However, they're between 6-12mb, depending on the length of the clips, and the wait can get very annoying, especially on congested DSL connections. We're pricing out other options, one of which would be streaming. Our host provides some packages, but they're too lightweight for what we're looking for. We also have an rfq in to VitalStream, so that's still pending. My questions are: Does anyone recommend streaming? Is there a provider that stands out as reliable and full-featured? Are there other solutions out there that _aren't_ streaming but that would provide us with a similar user experience? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Chris. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Carolyn.Jewel at LEGACYNET.COM Tue Oct 19 08:51:29 2004 From: Carolyn.Jewel at LEGACYNET.COM (Carolyn Jewel) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:51:29 -0700 Subject: [thelist] marketing Message-ID: What I note is that the woman who gave you all that great advice about marketing did not tell you to make your site "colorful and fun" for women and "useful" for men. Alex, surely you don't believe that nonsense about women only caring about pretty? This is a stereotype that ended up embarrassing a lot of companies back in the bad-old 80's. They were stunned to discover that this cherished old chestnut had earned them an astonishing amount of ill will from women, who, it turned out, had money to spend and were choosing to spend it somewhere else. Carolyn Jewel From techwriter at sound-by-design.com Tue Oct 19 09:29:50 2004 From: techwriter at sound-by-design.com (Allen Schaaf) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:29:50 -0700 Subject: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> While I realize this is somewhat off-topic (we are working on communication aren't we?), it does relate to achieving our goals over the long haul. Sometimes life moves on without us while we are busy making other plans. I believe that participation in the process, flawed though it may be, is still better than sitting on our hands instead of using them. This came from a friend. I've searched for information about the author, but only know that it was posted to the web by a woman. "How Women Got To Vote" A short history lesson on the privilege of voting... The women were innocent and defenseless. And by the end of the night, they were barely alive. Forty prison guards wielding clubs and their warden's blessing went on a rampage against the 33 women wrongly convicted of "obstructing sidewalk traffic." They beat Lucy Burn, chained her hands to the cell bars above her head and left her hanging for the night, bleeding and gasping for air. They hurled Dora Lewis into a dark cell, smashed her head against an iron bed and knocked her out cold. Her cellmate, Alice Cosu, thought Lewis was dead and suffered a heart attack. Additional affidavits describe the guards grabbing, dragging, beating, choking, slamming, pinching, twisting and kicking the women. Thus unfolded the "Night of Terror" on Nov. 15, 1917, when the warden at the Occoquan Workhouse in Virginia ordered his guards to teach a lesson to the suffragists imprisoned there because they dared to picket Woodrow Wilson's White House for the right to vote. For weeks, the women's only water came from an open pail. Their food--all of it colorless slop--was infested with worms. When one of the leaders, Alice Paul, embarked on a hunger strike, they tied her to a chair, forced a tube down her throat and poured liquid into her until she vomited. She was tortured like this for weeks until word was smuggled out to the press. So, refresh my memory. Some women won't vote this year because--why, exactly? We have carpool duties? We have to get to work? Our vote doesn't matter? It's raining? Last week, I went to a sparsely attended screening of HBO's new movie "Iron Jawed Angels" It is a graphic depiction of the battle these women waged so that I could pull the curtain at the polling booth and have my say. I am ashamed to say I needed the reminder. All these years later, voter registration is still my passion. But the actual act of voting had become less personal for me, more rote. Frankly, voting often felt more like an obligation than a privilege. Sometimes it was inconvenient. My friend Wendy, who is my age and studied women's history, saw the HBO movie, too. When she stopped by my desk to talk about it, she looked angry. She was--with herself. "One thought kept coming back to me as I watched that movie," she said. "What would those women think of the way I use--or don't use--my right to vote? All of us take it for granted now, not just younger women, but those of us who did seek to learn." The right to vote, she said, had become valuable to her "all over again." HBO will run the movie periodically before releasing it on video and DVD. I wish all history, social studies and government teachers would include the movie in their curriculum. I want it shown on Bunko night, too, and anywhere else women gather. I realize this isn't our usual idea of socializing, but we are not voting in the numbers that we should be, and I think a little shock therapy is in order. It is jarring to watch Woodrow Wilson and his cronies try to persuade a psychiatrist to declare Alice Paul insane so that she could be permanently institutionalized. And it is inspiring to watch the doctor refuse. Alice Paul was strong, he said, and brave. That didn't make her crazy. The doctor admonished the men: "Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity." Please pass this on to all the women you know. We need to get out and vote and use this right that was fought so hard for by these very courageous women. From evoltlist at delime.com Tue Oct 19 09:40:29 2004 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:40:29 -0400 Subject: men and women (was RE: [thelist] marketing) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20041019103927.01c491a8@mx.delime.com> Message from Carolyn Jewel (10/19/2004 09:51 AM) >What I note is that the woman who gave you all that great advice about >marketing did not tell you to make your site "colorful and fun" for >women and "useful" for men. I couldn't help but remember this conversation from a while back. It's an old thread, not sure why I even remembered it, but it might be useful, or at least amusing, to someone. http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010402/029184.html regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From dwork at macam.ac.il Tue Oct 19 09:45:32 2004 From: dwork at macam.ac.il (David Travis) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:45:32 +0200 Subject: [thelist] asp.net: using a form button as a link In-Reply-To: <017c01c4b558$0f2578c0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <200410191443.i9JEhgap001293@lbmail.macam.ac.il> Hi Casey, You don't have to abandon HTML tags in favor of server controls. When you need links simply use them. If the HREF's value is dynamic you can set the anchor to run at server (runat="server") and than to set the HREF attribute when the page loads or something. HTH, David. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Casey Crookston Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:19 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] asp.net: using a form button as a link I've got a pdf file users may want to download. How does one format a form button to download the file? Thanks, Casey -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 10:13:59 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> Message-ID: <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> --- Allen Schaaf wrote: > While I realize this is somewhat off-topic (we are working on Try /COMPLETELY/ off-topic. There is a chat-specific list right here at evolt.org -- thechat (http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat) Please keep off-topic banter to that list, or at the very least "pay" for the posting with a :) There's a bug in VisualStudio's designer that accidentally removes the event wireup when you toggle back and forth from Design and HTML views (I think especially prevalent if you dragged a server control from the toolbox). If your page "all of a sudden" stops responding to an event it should be, check the InitializeComponent() function in your code-behind, make sure the events are still wired up. Thanks :) sgd From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Tue Oct 19 10:38:24 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:38:24 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Admin: Re: [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> Message-ID: <20041019163824.11455@polytechnic.co.uk> On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 @645, Allen Schaaf wrote: >While I realize this is somewhat off-topic [snip] No, this is very off-topic. Please help us maintain this lists high signal-to-noise ration by refraining from posting off-topic. We have a dedicated list, thechat, for this sort of thing. http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat Guidelines for thelist can be found at http://lists.evolt.org/index.php? content=listinfo You owe a tip please. G. "One of your friendly neighborhood admin type people" Paparazzi is a very nifty little utility for OSX that only does one thing, but does it very well. give it a URL and it will produce a full length screenshot of the web page in PNG format. It's released under the GPL. http://www.0x.se/paparazzi/ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From john.destefano at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 11:44:31 2004 From: john.destefano at gmail.com (John DeStefano) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:44:31 -0400 Subject: [thelist] configuring sendmail for relaying mail form data Message-ID: Hello, I'm trying to use a good-looking but poorly-supported PHP form mail script (http://www.leveltendesign.com/L10Apps/Fm/) on a FreeBSD server to process data submitted by a Web mail form. The installation test completed successfully, and I moved the PHP file into my Web site. Now, when I click the submit button, I'm brought to the 'success' page, but an email is never received. This was also the case during the initial test, but I was brought to the default success page. Despite the poor support, I don't think the script itself is the problem. The mail server queue is holding these messages with the following error: Deferred: 450 ..com>: Sender address rejected: Domain not found The FreeBSD guide's Troubleshooting section points to the Sendmail FAQ for more information. The Sendmail FAQ on this topic contains a cycle of links, but I get the idea that I need to configure sendmail to route messages via my ISP's SMTP gateway, and that I need to define a "smart host". The most relevent FAQ entries I could find were: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mail-trouble.html#Q22.5.4. http://www.sendmail.org/faq/section3.html#3.22 So I added the following to /etc/mail/freebsd.mc: FEATURE(`accept_unresolvable_domains')dnl FEATURE(`accept_unqualified_senders')dnl I also created /etc/mail/relay-domains and inserted every possible variation of domains I could think of. I then restarted sendmail ('cd /etc/mail && make restart') and tried the form again, but mailq showed the same 450 error. I added the following to /etc/mail/freebsd.mc: define('SMART_HOST', `smtp-server.rochester.rr.com')dnl After a restart, mailq gave the same error. Any sendmail gurus out there have thoughts on how to resolve this, or what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. ~John From dudrenov at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 12:11:35 2004 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Streaming video In-Reply-To: <858F9BD79E563F48ABA441785A8DE5C849BAD1@main.geocalm.local> References: <858F9BD79E563F48ABA441785A8DE5C849BAD1@main.geocalm.local> Message-ID: <10c3e4e004101910115b193fa8@mail.gmail.com> Cleaner is good, but if you are going to run cleaner on a Mac.......... you might as well shoot yourself. I've never seen a program chashing this much before on a Mac. Pluss Cleaner is not that great compresion wise. The cool thing about it is that you can que in bunch of files to be processed. Pavel On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:05:25 -0400, Cheryl Ash wrote: > There is a program called Cleaner which can compress video very well. > Flash does stream but you might get better results with different file > formats or different codecs. > > Here is the Cleaner web site; I am pretty sure it's available on Mac or > PC. > > http://www.discreet.com/products/cleaner/cleaner6/ > > > Cheryl Ash > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Chris George > Sent: October 18, 2004 12:45 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Streaming video > > Hi everyone, > > We have a client that currently has 8 video clips ranging from 5-11 mins > on their site. The current setup is that it's in Flash (MX) as and > imported FLV (providing us decent compression, easily-skinnable > controls, and no additional plugins). However, they're between 6-12mb, > depending on the length of the clips, and the wait can get very > annoying, especially on congested DSL connections. > > We're pricing out other options, one of which would be streaming. Our > host provides some packages, but they're too lightweight for what we're > looking for. We also have an rfq in to VitalStream, so that's still > pending. > > My questions are: > > Does anyone recommend streaming? > > Is there a provider that stands out as reliable and full-featured? > > Are there other solutions out there that _aren't_ streaming but that > would provide us with a similar user experience? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Chris. > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From casey at thecrookstons.com Tue Oct 19 12:31:49 2004 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:31:49 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed Message-ID: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Hello all, I've purchased a small application from a 3rd party vendor, www.innovastudio.com. It's an HTML based WYSISYG editor, meant to allow users to update their own content. It only cost $69.00 to license, and there is no user limit. But, I'd like some feedback on how it works in Netscape on a PC and on Macs in any browser. I've got a demo online at: www.InternetOpus.com, then click on Easy Edit Content Manager. Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Casey From evolt at mccullough-net.com Tue Oct 19 12:45:59 2004 From: evolt at mccullough-net.com (evolt at mccullough-net.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:45:59 -0500 Subject: [thelist] new to servlets Message-ID: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> I have an order servlet that "controls" the ordering process. I wanted to restrict users with certain browsers from getting into the ordering process, so I created a detect bservlet, really my first servlet. I placed the jsp tag for the servlet on several pages and the logic to say if certain browser redirect to hear. however I thought if I could include the servlet in the beginning of the ordering servlet then I wouldnt have to do it on each and every page. however I am new and not sure how to do this properly. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From chris at logorocks.com Tue Oct 19 12:58:23 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:58:23 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed In-Reply-To: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Hi Casey, I have some bad news on the Mac front, I'm afraid. In Mac OSX 10.3.5: Safari: doesn't display properly - fields jumbled up, text entry doesn't work, unusable. MSIE: this time all the controls display okay, but you can't edit or enter any content. There is a weird radio button in the left margin that doesn't seem to do anything. Unusable. Mozilla: just as bad as Safari. Lucky we Mac users are the minority! Kind regards, CK. From hassan at webtuitive.com Tue Oct 19 13:09:29 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:09:29 -0700 Subject: [thelist] new to servlets In-Reply-To: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <41755859.5010603@webtuitive.com> evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > I have an order servlet that "controls" the ordering process. I wanted to > restrict users with certain browsers from getting into the ordering process, so > I created a detect bservlet, really my first servlet. I placed the jsp tag for > the servlet on several pages and the logic to say if certain browser redirect > to hear. however I thought if I could include the servlet in the beginning of > the ordering servlet then I wouldnt have to do it on each and every page. > however I am new and not sure how to do this properly. You want to use a Filter; see chapter 6 of the Servlet spec. (Tomcat ships with some example Filters, BTW.) HTH, -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From casey at thecrookstons.com Tue Oct 19 13:11:29 2004 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:11:29 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> <77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Message-ID: <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Upon further review of their System Requirements, I now see that this app only works in IE run in Windows. Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? Casey ----- Original Message ----- > Hi Casey, > > I have some bad news on the Mac front, I'm afraid. In Mac OSX 10.3.5: > > Safari: doesn't display properly - fields jumbled up, text entry > doesn't work, unusable. > > MSIE: this time all the controls display okay, but you can't edit or > enter any content. There is a weird radio button in the left margin > that doesn't seem to do anything. Unusable. > > Mozilla: just as bad as Safari. > > Lucky we Mac users are the minority! > > Kind regards, > CK. From dudrenov at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 13:13:42 2004 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:13:42 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed In-Reply-To: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <10c3e4e0041019111339b008e8@mail.gmail.com> Does not work on Firefox on a Mac. Does not work on Safari on a Mac. Does not work on Netscape on a Mac. Funny enough work perfectly on IE 5.2 for Mac which is probably the worst browser ever. You got ripped off in my opinion. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:31:49 -0500, Casey Crookston wrote: > Hello all, > > I've purchased a small application from a 3rd party vendor, > www.innovastudio.com. It's an HTML based WYSISYG editor, meant to allow > users to update their own content. It only cost $69.00 to license, and > there is no user limit. > > But, I'd like some feedback on how it works in Netscape on a PC and on Macs > in any browser. I've got a demo online at: www.InternetOpus.com, then click > on Easy Edit Content Manager. > > Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Casey > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 13:18:57 2004 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:18:57 -0400 Subject: [thelist] new to servlets In-Reply-To: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:45:59 -0500, evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > I have an order servlet that "controls" the ordering process. I wanted to > restrict users with certain browsers from getting into the ordering process, so > I created a detect bservlet, really my first servlet. I placed the jsp tag for > the servlet on several pages and the logic to say if certain browser redirect > to hear. however I thought if I could include the servlet in the beginning of > the ordering servlet then I wouldnt have to do it on each and every page. > however I am new and not sure how to do this properly. > Filters. Have a look through how to set up and trigger filters. They should allow you to do what you want done. -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From mwarden at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 13:20:10 2004 From: mwarden at gmail.com (Matt Warden) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:20:10 -0400 Subject: [thelist] new to servlets In-Reply-To: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> References: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: You cannot "include" a servlet in another servlet. You will need to either add the functionality as a method in the order servlet, and call that method as the first line of doGet/doPost, or you will need to create a (non-servlet) class for the logic and use that class in the first line or two of doGet/doPost. Which you do will depend on which is most appropriate design-wise. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:45:59 -0500, evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > I have an order servlet that "controls" the ordering process. I wanted to > restrict users with certain browsers from getting into the ordering process, so > I created a detect bservlet, really my first servlet. I placed the jsp tag for > the servlet on several pages and the logic to say if certain browser redirect > to hear. however I thought if I could include the servlet in the beginning of > the ordering servlet then I wouldnt have to do it on each and every page. > however I am new and not sure how to do this properly. -- Matt Warden Miami University Oxford, OH http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy. From spambait at onpointsolutions.com Tue Oct 19 13:27:13 2004 From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:27:13 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear><77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <001501c4b609$41a638f0$a8fea8c0@Laptop> > Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? If it doesn't have to be web based, MM Contribute will do what you want and probably considerably more. I've been working with version 2 with my clients and they're pleased with it. I think you can get that version for around $150, perhaps less on eBay now that version 3 is out. ------------- Regards, Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s www.OnPointSolutions.com From dudrenov at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 13:38:21 2004 From: dudrenov at gmail.com (Pavel Dudrenov) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:38:21 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed In-Reply-To: <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> <77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <10c3e4e004101911385f3c2e6@mail.gmail.com> Ops Chris is right it does not work on IE for Mac also. Casey check on hotscripts you might find something there. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:11:29 -0500, Casey Crookston wrote: > Upon further review of their System Requirements, I now see that this app > only works in IE run in Windows. > > Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? > > Casey > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Hi Casey, > > > > I have some bad news on the Mac front, I'm afraid. In Mac OSX 10.3.5: > > > > Safari: doesn't display properly - fields jumbled up, text entry > > doesn't work, unusable. > > > > MSIE: this time all the controls display okay, but you can't edit or > > enter any content. There is a weird radio button in the left margin > > that doesn't seem to do anything. Unusable. > > > > Mozilla: just as bad as Safari. > > > > Lucky we Mac users are the minority! > > > > Kind regards, > > CK. > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From marcus at bristav.se Tue Oct 19 13:47:49 2004 From: marcus at bristav.se (Marcus Andersson) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:47:49 +0200 Subject: [thelist] new to servlets In-Reply-To: References: <1098207959.417552d79cff4@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: <41756155.2070606@bristav.se> Matt Warden wrote: > You cannot "include" a servlet in another servlet. Huh? public void doGet(HttpServletRequest req, HttpServletResponse res) throws ... { RequestDispatcher disp = req.getRequestDispatcher("pathToOtherSerlvet"); disp.include(req, res); // you could forward as well... } /Marcus From casey at thecrookstons.com Tue Oct 19 13:49:31 2004 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:49:31 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear><77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com><008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> <001501c4b609$41a638f0$a8fea8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <009601c4b60c$5eee6100$6501a8c0@Papabear> Thanks, Bob. > > Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? > > If it doesn't have to be web based, MM Contribute will do what you want and > probably considerably more. I've been working with version 2 with my clients > and they're pleased with it. I think you can get that version for around > $150, perhaps less on eBay now that version 3 is out. What does "not web based" mean? Code on the client? I'd like my clients to log into their site from ANY computer and have the ability to update their content. Also, Macromedia is a solid company, but don't most of their products need to be run on Cold Fusion? Casey From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Tue Oct 19 13:54:26 2004 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:54:26 -0700 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes Message-ID: <010301c4b60d$0ea7bb00$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> I am trying to figure out how to send an HTML form to a PHP processing page, but only post the variables for checkboxes that have changed. The form consists of two columns of checkboxes: Column One = name="chkIn" value="" Column Two = name="chkEmail" value="" The initial state of the checkbox is set via flags obtained from a web service. So the checkboxes can be in any combination of checked or unchecked states. I have a JavaScript script that automatically submits the page to the PHP processing page once a user clicks on a checkbox, unfortunately ALL the "checked" boxes get posted to the PHP processing page. Is there a way to ascertain which checkbox was changed, and only post that variable? Naming all the checkboxes the same name did not work since it always sent the last checkbox in the list. That is why I append the $repName to the end of the checkbox name to give it a distinct name. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, markJ From spambait at onpointsolutions.com Tue Oct 19 13:59:58 2004 From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:59:58 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear><77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com><008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> <001501c4b609$41a638f0$a8fea8c0@Laptop> <009601c4b60c$5eee6100$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <002101c4b60d$d5087d70$a8fea8c0@Laptop> Casey wrote: > What does "not web based" mean? Code on the client? Contribute is desktop software so it runs on a workstation (windows or mac). Hence your client can't login from any old computer to edit the site. MM has a 30 day full trial version available for download. > Also, Macromedia is a solid company, but don't most of their products need > to be run on Cold Fusion? No. In fact, Contribute works best on static HTML pages not dynamic pages (CFML, ASP, PHP, etc.). All Contribute requires to edit a remote site is an internet connection. As for the remote server, if you can ftp login to the web space, you can use Contribute. HTH. ------------- Regards, Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s www.OnPointSolutions.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Crookston" To: "Bob Haroche" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed > Thanks, Bob. > > > > Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? > > > > If it doesn't have to be web based, MM Contribute will do what you want > and > > probably considerably more. I've been working with version 2 with my > clients > > and they're pleased with it. I think you can get that version for around > > $150, perhaps less on eBay now that version 3 is out. > > > Casey > > > > From alex at deltatraffic.co.uk Tue Oct 19 14:03:15 2004 From: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk (Alex Beston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:15 +0100 Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <27DCAFAC-21DB-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> <27DCAFAC-21DB-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Message-ID: <417564F3.7010505@deltatraffic.co.uk> > yup point taken. sorry, it is a bit chauvinist! so what are the needs of women & men re: website presentation? rgds, Alex From alex at deltatraffic.co.uk Tue Oct 19 14:08:21 2004 From: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk (Alex Beston) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:08:21 +0100 Subject: men and women (was RE: [thelist] marketing) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20041019103927.01c491a8@mx.delime.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20041019103927.01c491a8@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <41756625.8010109@deltatraffic.co.uk> > > I couldn't help but remember this conversation from a while back. It's > an old thread, not sure why I even remembered it, but it might be > useful, or at least amusing, to someone. > http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010402/029184.html > http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010402/029187.html has out of date links would a kind soul know how to access these? Alex From peter at easylistbox.com Tue Oct 19 14:21:15 2004 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:21:15 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed Message-ID: <441c140f0d364829b2a1247bf55a0b4e@easylistbox.com> ???This may not completely meet your needs, but assuming you're in ASP.NET, RichTextBox will downgrade for non-IE browsers.? Of course it won't give you full WYSIWYG functionality, but at least it will work.? Just a thought... ? ? From: "Casey Crookston" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 11:23 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed Upon further review of their System Requirements, I now see that this app only works in IE run in Windows. Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? Casey ----- Original Message ----- > Hi Casey, > > I have some bad news on the Mac front, I'm afraid. In Mac OSX 10.3.5: > > Safari: doesn't display properly - fields jumbled up, text entry > doesn't work, unusable. > > MSIE: this time all the controls display okay, but you can't edit or > enter any content. There is a weird radio button in the left margin > that doesn't seem to do anything. Unusable. > > Mozilla: just as bad as Safari. > > Lucky we Mac users are the minority! > > Kind regards, > CK. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From tserbinski at washsq.com Tue Oct 19 14:30:26 2004 From: tserbinski at washsq.com (Theodore Serbinski) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:30:26 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? Message-ID: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> Hey guys! I'm about to dive into the wonderful world of CMSs for use on a variety of sites (hoping to simplify my life, all of my websites I create seem to want the same CMS based functionality) and I'm looking to find what would be the best one to use. The features that I would need: - platform of choice: Apache/MySQL/PHP - total content management: static and dynamic pages - support for blogs and/or regularly updated news sections - calendar/event management - user management - contact management: view users, see contact info, etc - photo gallery - forum support - possible wiki/comment access for internal writing of docs - other basic CMS stuff for the most part, expandable in nature - templates: XHTML/CSS would be ideal - extensive permission controls Based on these I did some research and found a great CMS comparison tool: - http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ My top choices going in were Mambo and Drupal and after comparing, Mambo came out on top. After that, I've tried out demos for both and Mambo seems to have the cleanest UI, something that I would be using extensively, as would future clients, but with limited access, so usability is key. So I think I've decided on Mambo as my CMS of choice to use on all future projects and it seems to have the biggest user base out there. However, the web is huge and there is so much out there, I might have overlooked something. Additionally, without using either CMS in a production enviroment I might have overlooked other things as well. Does anyone have any opinions on what CMSs seemed to have worked and if Mambo is a good choice? Thanks! ted From ox4dboy at comcast.net Tue Oct 19 14:45:58 2004 From: ox4dboy at comcast.net (Jono) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:45:58 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Netscape & Mac Help Needed In-Reply-To: <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <004301c4b601$8622d9f0$6501a8c0@Papabear> <77D2B534-21F8-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <008101c4b607$0f503ec0$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: <7FC0E712-2207-11D9-ACD0-000A95A59E8A@comcast.net> On Oct 19, 2004, at 1:58 PM, Chris Kavanagh wrote: > Lucky we Mac users are the minority! > > Kind regards, > CK. So are Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Ferrari, Porsche, etc, etc. Strength, not being in numbers of course. On Oct 19, 2004, at 2:11 PM, Casey Crookston wrote: > Ug. Anyone know of a good, cross browser/platform tool? > > Casey Here's some I have been looking into. Please post if you find others. [1] HardCore: http://editor.hardcoreinternet.co.uk/ ---> Works with Microsoft Internet Explorer (v4.0 or newer) on Windows as well as Netscape (v7.1 or newer), Mozilla (v1.3 or newer) and Mozilla Firefox/Firebird (v0.7 or newer) on Microsoft Windows, Macintosh, Linux and Unix. [2] ActivEdit 4.0 http://www.cfdev.com/activedit/ ---> works with Safari Thanks, Jono From jeff at jeffhowden.com Tue Oct 19 15:11:41 2004 From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:11:41 -0700 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <010301c4b60d$0ea7bb00$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <20041019192238.859.32161@hm-pop3.solinus.com> Mark, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Mark Joslyn > > Naming all the checkboxes the same name did not work > since it always sent the last checkbox in the > list. [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< That's not true. Checkboxes (or any form field types except radio buttons, for that matter) that share the same name send the values of all successful form controls to the serve as a comma-delimited list. Perhaps your PHP processing page is doing something funky to the returned value before you start working with it that's causing you to lose everything but the last entry. However, I'd advise you to take a look at it again. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/ Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/ From chris at logorocks.com Tue Oct 19 15:17:51 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:17:51 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Gender gap [WAS: marketing] In-Reply-To: <417564F3.7010505@deltatraffic.co.uk> References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> <27DCAFAC-21DB-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417564F3.7010505@deltatraffic.co.uk> Message-ID: > so what are the needs of women & men re: website presentation? If I may paraphrase Norman Rockwell: put a baby in your website. Chicks dig babies. If that doesn't work, try putting a bandage on the baby. Seriously: Ogilvy carried out a big study of this back in the 90s. I couldn't find the white paper online, but here's a starting point for you (an article about the study): http://www.aef.com/06/news/data/2003/2254 . This is a topic that's gathering some steam in advertising/marketing circles - basically because lots of gender-targeted marketing is really clunky - I think more women coming into the industry will help. Kind regards, CK. From lists at neptunewebworks.com Tue Oct 19 15:29:01 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:29:01 -0700 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> References: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> Message-ID: <4175790D.2020402@neptunewebworks.com> Theodore Serbinski wrote: > Does anyone have any opinions on what CMSs seemed to have worked and > if Mambo is a good choice? Mambo is fantastic. Very extensible, very active dev and user community, lots of extensions. The only problem with Mambo is the table-based layout that it produces. They're heading toward XHTML/CSS, but it will be a while yet. In addition to Drupal some other options include Xaraya, Xoops and Typo3. Typo3 is really cool, but very complex. You'd need to spend time learning it. Check out OpenSourceCMS.com if you haven't already - an essential resource. (btw they're running Mambo...) -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Tue Oct 19 15:49:18 2004 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:49:18 -0700 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <20041019192238.859.32161@hm-pop3.solinus.com> Message-ID: <010601c4b61d$1a7f1760$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> That's not true. Checkboxes (or any form field types except radio buttons, for that matter) that share the same name send the values of all successful form controls to the serve as a comma-delimited list. Perhaps your PHP processing page is doing something funky to the returned value before you start working with it that's causing you to lose everything but the last entry. However, I'd advise you to take a look at it again. The only way I can return all the "successful" form controls is to have all of them use different names. If I use "chkIn" as the checkbox name for all my checkboxes, I only receive one value - the last value. I output the posted variable to the screen before any PHP processing was done on it and it is only posting one variable - the last one declared. The form is structured this: (2 columns of checkboxes) " /> " /> checked vs. unchecked is done by checking the $repFlags variable - So my initial form is a mixture of checkboxes that are already checked and some that are unchecked. If I select an unchecked checkbox, the value I return is the last of the checked checkboxes. So I need a way to target specific checkboxes - hence the unique names. Any thoughts? markJ p.s. - thanks for the help!! From cgeorge at basecorp.com Tue Oct 19 16:32:43 2004 From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:32:43 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners Message-ID: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A5B8@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> Hey all, Has anyone seen or done forms that has round corners on text inputs (HTML forms, not Flash ones)? Before I completely write it off, I thought I'd toss a line out here - one never knows! Thanks, Chris. From noah at tookish.net Tue Oct 19 16:46:57 2004 From: noah at tookish.net (noah) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:46:57 -0400 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <010601c4b61d$1a7f1760$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> References: <010601c4b61d$1a7f1760$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <41758B51.3040209@tookish.net> Mark Joslyn wrote (19/10/2004 4:49 PM): > The only way I can return all the "successful" form controls is to have all > of them use different names. If I use "chkIn" as the checkbox name for all > my checkboxes, I only receive one value - the last value. > > I output the posted variable to the screen before any PHP processing was > done on it and it is only posting one variable - the last one declared. In order to get all of the data from a series of related checkboxes in PHP, you have to tell PHP that you're handing it an array by having the name of the checkboxes end in "[]". For example, if your form looks like (simplified):
Then when the page is processed, $_POST['chkIn'] will be an array of all the checked boxes. If you omit the "[]", then $_POST['chkIn'] will contain only the value of the last checked box. Cheers, Noah From rob.smith at THERMON.com Tue Oct 19 16:49:49 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:49:49 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Regular expressions in Dreamweaver (2 pieces) Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE97@smtmb.tmc.local> Hi, 1) I got the Album Creator 2.1 for Dreamweaver MX and it's flipping out on larger photo albums. This one in particular consists of about 370 photos. It dies and says "waiting for Fireworks" when Fireworks is long finished. The Photo Albums are not created. By any remote-not-in-this-lifetime chance, do you know what the upper limit is? 1 Supplemental) I created the photo album the normal way and it worked fine. 2) Which leads me to regular expressions. I've got about *ehem* 370 find and replaces to go through. However, I need to use regular expressions. I have:
DSC0024.jpg
BP16.jpg
115_1566.jpg
PICT0276.jpg Those are the four known patterns (
!@#$.jpg) Can someone clue me in on the regular expression to clear out that mess between the
and the ? I tried Dreamweaver's help and like all software help systems, it was useless. Rob Smith From azzouzi at skynet.be Tue Oct 19 16:51:45 2004 From: azzouzi at skynet.be (ahmed) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:51:45 +0200 Subject: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners References: <6FC38116547DC24FAE1971330795194B01A5B8@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com> Message-ID: <002401c4b625$d3ec2410$0100a8c0@hp> Hi, You can check this complete css designed form at http://www.picment.com/articles/css/funwithforms/ A.Azzouzi. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris George" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners Hey all, Has anyone seen or done forms that has round corners on text inputs (HTML forms, not Flash ones)? Before I completely write it off, I thought I'd toss a line out here - one never knows! Thanks, Chris. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From paul at web-business-pack.com Tue Oct 19 16:58:11 2004 From: paul at web-business-pack.com (Paul Bennett) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:58:11 +1300 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <41758B51.3040209@tookish.net> References: <010601c4b61d$1a7f1760$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> <41758B51.3040209@tookish.net> Message-ID: <41758DF3.7080004@web-business-pack.com> thanks Noah - I remember having this exact problem about a year ago and couldn't remember what was done to solve it - although I knew it was something client side... noah wrote: > Mark Joslyn wrote (19/10/2004 4:49 PM): > >> The only way I can return all the "successful" form controls is to >> have all >> of them use different names. If I use "chkIn" as the checkbox name >> for all >> my checkboxes, I only receive one value - the last value. >> >> I output the posted variable to the screen before any PHP processing was >> done on it and it is only posting one variable - the last one declared. > > > > In order to get all of the data from a series of related checkboxes in > PHP, you have to tell PHP that you're handing it an array by having > the name of the checkboxes end in "[]". For example, if your form > looks like (simplified): > >
> > > >
> > Then when the page is processed, $_POST['chkIn'] will be an array of > all the checked boxes. If you omit the "[]", then $_POST['chkIn'] will > contain only the value of the last checked box. > > > Cheers, > Noah From rob.smith at THERMON.com Tue Oct 19 17:00:20 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:00:20 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE98@smtmb.tmc.local> >Has anyone seen or done forms that has round corners on text >inputs (HTML forms, not Flash ones)? You might be able to simulate it with CSS. Set the border to 0px and setting a background image of the rounded corners. input { border: #FFF 0px; backround: url(grfx/rounded.gif) #fff; } I was able to hide the input border completely, but the image didn't come up correctly. If you can, I'd like to know too. Rob From astreight at msn.com Tue Oct 19 17:47:59 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:59 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes Message-ID: "Pre-selection" of boxes, boxes that are already checked prior to any user selection, is an abomination. Forcing options on a user violates the fundamental concept of the Web: user empowerment and freedom to interact or not interact, power to choose, to select on one's own initiative. I personally am aware of no situation where "pre-selection" is ever permissible, from the standpoints of ethics, usability, and credibility. Thus, my advice is to do away with "pre-selection", "pre-determination", "predestination" in anything. I dislike it when I fill out a registration form, and choice boxes are already checked. Are they hoping I won't care, and in a big hurry, just rush through the form, and forget to "un-select" those pre-selections I do not want? Some are being deceptive in this little con job. I had a newsletter subscription form with "HTML version" pre-checked. I clicked on "Text Version", submitted the form, then the verification message informed me I had subscribed to both versions. Stupid, impatient, in a big thunderous hurry me, I should have "un-selected" the HTML Version, not just selected the Text Version. See what I mean? Users, in every web situation I know of, resent having browser Back buttons disabled by a site, encountering "pre-selected" options they don't want and didn't select, being forced to spend one half hour interacting with ads, denying or accepting offers, to get a $50 Appleby's restaurant gift card. Take control and choices away from users, and you got yourself an old fashioned, push-things-at-the-customer marketing disaster. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com www.VaspersTheGrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.StreightSite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From bedouglas at earthlink.net Tue Oct 19 18:03:39 2004 From: bedouglas at earthlink.net (bruce) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:03:39 -0700 Subject: [thelist] a tip for US list readers.... In-Reply-To: <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b901c4b62f$e03def50$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> this is off topic to the actual work issues that get dealt with... however. don't forget to register/vote!!!! if you don't register/vote.. don't complain!!! and the rest of thw world might thank you.. curse you!!! From paul at web-business-pack.com Tue Oct 19 18:08:41 2004 From: paul at web-business-pack.com (Paul Bennett) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:08:41 +1300 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41759E79.5020301@web-business-pack.com> OK Andrea, I have a list of 50 options, of which a user can pick any, all or none. These options are saved to the db using a script like the one being discussed. Would you really, championing the cause of the *user*, have them RESELECT all their options every time they wished to change ONE? In this case preselection is mandatory, not evil I beleive the script in question is doing the same thing - populating a list of checkboxes based on previous selection. This is a classic case of a kneejerk reaction to a problem that you don't seem to have read enough about Paul B From b.avant at futura.net Mon Oct 18 14:38:44 2004 From: b.avant at futura.net (BILL AVANT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:44 -0500 Subject: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect References: <1098103143.4173b96789764@webmail.mccullough-net.com><4173DFF6.3030601@webtuitive.com> <1098115737.4173ea992f223@webmail.mccullough-net.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] jsp/java browser detect > What I ended up doing was writting a bean. > > ############################################################## > > package com.dynamic.logic; > > import java.io.Serializable; > import javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest; > > public final class DetectBrowser implements Serializable { > > private HttpServletRequest request = null; > private String useragent = null; > private boolean netEnabled = false; > private boolean ie = false; > private boolean ns6 = false; > private boolean ns7 = false; > private boolean op = false; > private boolean moz = false; > private boolean ns4 = false; > > > public void setRequest(HttpServletRequest req) { > request = req; > useragent = request.getHeader("User-Agent"); > String user = useragent.toLowerCase(); > if(user.indexOf("msie") != -1) { > ie = true; > } else if(user.indexOf("netscape6") != -1) { > ns6 = true; > } else if(user.indexOf("netscape/7") != -1) { > ns7 = true; > } else if(user.indexOf("opera") != -1) { > op = true; > } else if(user.indexOf("gecko/2004") != -1) { > moz = true; > } else if(user.indexOf("mozilla/4.7") != -1) { > ns4 = true; > } > > if(user.indexOf(".net clr") != -1) > netEnabled = true; > } > > public String getUseragent() { > return useragent; > } > > public boolean isNetEnabled() { > return netEnabled; > } > > public boolean isIE() { > return ie; > } > > public boolean isNS7() { > return ns7; > } > > public boolean isNS6() { > return ns6; > } > > public boolean isOP() { > return op; > } > > public boolean isMOZ() { > return moz; > } > > public boolean isNS4() { > return ns4; > } > } > > ############################################################## > > to detect the user-agent string for the various browsers, Mozilla, Firefox and > Netscape have very similar strings, and since I wanted to allow Mozilla and > Firefox, it took me more trial and error to get it right. > > Quoting Hassan Schroeder : > > > evolt at mccullough-net.com wrote: > > > What I have started to do is in my jsp page is to put in some browser > > detection, > > > I need to redirect based on what browser you have. So for Netscape 4.7, > > > generation 6, earlier IE versions and so on. > > > > > > CODE: ################################################################# > > > > > > > > > Help :) > > > > with what, exactly? > > > > -- > > Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com > > Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com > > > > dream. code. > > > > > > -- > > > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evoltlist at delime.com Tue Oct 19 18:17:44 2004 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:17:44 -0400 Subject: men and women (was RE: [thelist] marketing) In-Reply-To: <41756625.8010109@deltatraffic.co.uk> References: <4.2.0.58.20041019103927.01c491a8@mx.delime.com> <4.2.0.58.20041019103927.01c491a8@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20041019191617.00a7ad90@mx.delime.com> Message from Alex Beston (10/19/2004 03:08 PM) >>I couldn't help but remember this conversation from a while back. It's an >>old thread, not sure why I even remembered it, but it might be useful, or >>at least amusing, to someone. >>http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010402/029184.html >> > >http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010402/029187.html > >has out of date links I dug them up using the Wayback Machine http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,11 51,548,00.html http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.thestandard.com/research/metrics/dis play/0,2799,9999,00.html regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Tue Oct 19 18:23:49 2004 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:23:49 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011501c4b632$b089afd0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> "Pre-selection" of boxes, boxes that are already checked prior to any user selection, is an abomination. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing Easy now - these are all options that have been previously selected by a user - they are already "Pre-Selected" because it is indicating that they have selected this option in the past. Thanks for your concern though. markJ From vreeland at studioframework.com Tue Oct 19 18:23:24 2004 From: vreeland at studioframework.com (Robert Vreeland) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:23:24 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE98@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <017001c4b632$a1b63730$6401a8c0@studioframework> Try assigning the background image to a class like .inputwithimage{ border: #FFF 0px; backround: url(grfx/rounded.gif) #fff; } then set the class attribute on the input field, To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] Forms with rounded corners > >Has anyone seen or done forms that has round corners on text > >inputs (HTML forms, not Flash ones)? > > You might be able to simulate it with CSS. Set the border to 0px and setting > a background image of the rounded corners. > > input { border: #FFF 0px; backround: url(grfx/rounded.gif) #fff; } > > I was able to hide the input border completely, but the image didn't come up > correctly. If you can, I'd like to know too. > > Rob > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From lists at neptunewebworks.com Tue Oct 19 18:27:46 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:27:46 -0700 Subject: [thelist] a tip for US list readers.... [offlist] In-Reply-To: <00b901c4b62f$e03def50$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> References: <00b901c4b62f$e03def50$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> Message-ID: <4175A2F2.90703@neptunewebworks.com> bruce wrote: >tip> >don't forget to register/vote!!!! >if you don't register/vote.. don't complain!!! >and the rest of thw world might thank you.. curse you!!! >/tip> > > Tip spam!? Didn't this just get addressed today? While we may or may not agree with your sentiment, *please refrain* from posting political statements on TheList. We have a dedicated list, thechat, for this sort of thing. http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat No matter how good your underlying code is, a lot of typos and spacing issues can add up to a negative experience for your client/end-user. Too many typos suggests that your underlying code might also be slipshod. For example, I recently saw a control panel interface with a customer type listing where there were two status types "Free" and "Payed." Many other misspellings and grammatical errors in the admin interface really detracted from site owner's respect for the developer who built the site. Since developers are often slightly less polished when it comes to human language grammar, get someone to edit your scripts' output before letting your client/end-user see it. Even minor mistakes/typos, when taken in aggregate, could hurt your business. -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com Tue Oct 19 18:30:07 2004 From: Mark.Joslyn at SolimarSystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:30:07 -0700 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <41758B51.3040209@tookish.net> Message-ID: <011601c4b633$915d61a0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> In order to get all of the data from a series of related checkboxes in PHP, you have to tell PHP that you're handing it an array by having the name of the checkboxes end in "[]". Thanks Noah! I have a bit of a follow-up. I need an action to take place if the user unchecks the checkbox as well. Is there a way to record this "unchecking" event. It seems like the checkbox value just disappears once the item in "unchecked". So, the user checks a checkbox - they receive emails - the user unchecks the checkbox, then they do not receive emails. Any insights on this. markJ From partyarmy at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 18:36:27 2004 From: partyarmy at gmail.com (partyarmy) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:36:27 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CSS design help. Message-ID: <3b98efb40410191636487e675b@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys. Having some trouble with my design at http://www.exploded.org/ Mostly incosistencies between browsers. Theres a couple, so please bear with me. 1) http://www.exploded.org/index.php There is a gap between the bottom of the profile images and the top of the black bar along the bottom of the page. In IE and OPERA, the gap looks fine, but when viewed in FF, the gap is much smaller. 2) http://www.exploded.org/test.php This one is in IE only. The three submit buttons on the page are supposed to be aligned to the left edge of the content div that there in. For some reason in IE, there is a 25px margin? I had been using _margin-left:-25px, but was told that niether part of that fix is standards compliant. 3) The whole site. I'm looking into using scalable fonts for the entire site. Is this accomplished by switching all my pixel font sizes to em's? What's a good base size to start with? Well, that's it for now. Thanks. From astreight at msn.com Tue Oct 19 18:55:16 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:55:16 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked or unchecked boxes Message-ID: LOL, yes, I wasn't sure if I was on the same page exactly, but see, I had just published a couple of blog posts that deal with "pre-selection", among other common business errors, and so it was a hot issue with me. I suppose someone could say "social" and one could wonder if you meant "socialism" or "ice cream social". Carry on then, as you were, don't mind me, I'm just a rabid radical user advocate. When someone says "jump", I say, "to my carefully researched conclusion?" and not "how high?" Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From lists at ingenyus.net Tue Oct 19 18:56:50 2004 From: lists at ingenyus.net (Gary McPherson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:56:50 +0100 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <011601c4b633$915d61a0$870aa8c0@Corp.Solimarsystems.com> Message-ID: <20041019235457.IHLY24841.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@plato> ----Original Message---- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mark Joslyn Sent: 20 October 2004 00:30 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes > > I have a bit of a follow-up. > > I need an action to take place if the user unchecks the > checkbox as well. Is there a way to record this "unchecking" > event. It seems like the checkbox value just disappears once the item > in "unchecked". > > So, the user checks a checkbox - they receive emails - the > user unchecks the checkbox, then they do not receive emails. > > Any insights on this. > > markJ I think the simplest way to handle this would be to process all available options each time that form is submitted. Create a hashtable (or the PHP equivalent - it's not my strongest language, sorry) with every option's value set to false by default, compare it with the form array and update all submitted values to true. Then update each corresponding field in your datastore to true or false accordingly. A little more work for the db, sure - but spares you the headache of trying to trap the nebulous "unselect" events. Cheers, Gary P.S. Take care when editing previous replies as you may confuse the Tip Harvester when it comes across your email, including the opening tagline of Noah's tip without the closing line. From khurtwilliams at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 19:41:07 2004 From: khurtwilliams at gmail.com (Khurt Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:41:07 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: <4175790D.2020402@neptunewebworks.com> References: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> <4175790D.2020402@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <3006f9fb04101917412509a888@mail.gmail.com> http://wordpress.org/ On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:29:01 -0700, Maximillian Schwanekamp wrote: > Theodore Serbinski wrote: > > > Does anyone have any opinions on what CMSs seemed to have worked and > > if Mambo is a good choice? > > Mambo is fantastic. Very extensible, very active dev and user > community, lots of extensions. The only problem with Mambo is the > table-based layout that it produces. They're heading toward XHTML/CSS, > but it will be a while yet. In addition to Drupal some other options > include Xaraya, Xoops and Typo3. Typo3 is really cool, but very > complex. You'd need to spend time learning it. Check out > OpenSourceCMS.com if you haven't already - an essential resource. (btw > they're running Mambo...) > > -- > Maximillian Von Schwanekamp > Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce > NeptuneWebworks.com > voice: 541-302-1438 > fax: 208-730-6504 > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Sincerely, Khurt Williams, CISSP http://ossnews.blogspot.com From noah at tookish.net Tue Oct 19 19:52:51 2004 From: noah at tookish.net (noah) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:52:51 -0400 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes In-Reply-To: <20041019235457.IHLY24841.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@plato> References: <20041019235457.IHLY24841.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@plato> Message-ID: <4175B6E3.6050901@tookish.net> Gary McPherson wrote (19/10/2004 7:56 PM): > I think the simplest way to handle this would be to process all available > options each time that form is submitted. If it's feasible, I think that Gary's is the best solution. If you really want to compare the new options to the existing ones, you will either have to pull the existing options from the DB when you process the form, or you'll have to put the existing options in a hidden field in the form itself, then turn it into an array and compare the two arrays (the existing options vs. the new options) when the form is processed. Cheers, Noah From robertm-list at rmdesign.com Tue Oct 19 20:42:36 2004 From: robertm-list at rmdesign.com (robertm-list at rmdesign.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:42:36 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> References: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> Message-ID: <51CDCA43-2239-11D9-9D7F-003065DA9D1C@rmdesign.com> On 19-Oct-04, at 3:30 PM, Theodore Serbinski wrote: > So I think I've decided on Mambo as my CMS of choice to use on all > future projects and it seems to have the biggest user base out there. Mambo is good. One possible issue, it seems to be limited to only a couple levels of organization.. categories and sections I believe. If you need subsections, there may be a third party plugin I don't know. It doesn't have much in the way of photo handling capabilities. For example, captioning a photo is not possible. There is a plugin for Gallery. As a graphic designer, I have to add I've only seen one Mambo website that didn't look amateurish. There are plenty of really awful looking templates for sale. WordPress or Movable Type aren't what you are looking for, but they have some nicely done templates. But overall, Mambo is easy to use and seems to be good for small businesses and individuals. http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ may not be entirely up to date but does a good job of summarizing features. Most other cms sites seem to mostly have drek posted by developers or ecstatic users. hth robert mcgonegal From evoltlist at delime.com Tue Oct 19 20:44:43 2004 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:44:43 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Can we institute a temporary spam filter? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20041019195521.026d6620@mx.delime.com> Something that catches any email with words like "vote", "elections", "President" or any of its derivates and holds it for administrative review? This need only exist for, I dunno, however many weeks it is till you Americans vote. The Internet Wayback Machine - www.archive.org - is useful for finding old versions of sites and articles that may have changed address or been taken offline. -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From cditty at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 22:29:04 2004 From: cditty at gmail.com (Chris Ditty) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:29:04 -0500 Subject: [thelist] PHP - str_replace problem Message-ID: Hi all. I'm trying to do a little code snippets page for a site I am working on. I figured it would be simple enough. I would do a str_replace and replace the various html codes with the ascii eqivulant. Unfortunately, it is not working as expected. Can anyone help with this? This is what I am using. $snippetCode = str_replace("\n", "
", $snippet['snippetCode']); $snippetCode = str_replace("<", ">", $snippetCode); $snippetCode = str_replace(">", "<", $snippetCode); $snippetCode = str_replace("&", "&", $snippetCode); This is what is in $snippet['snippetCode']. ?>
References: <6AE6EBBB14415241A64613CEE97F550A16EEB2@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com> <417468D4.5010305@deltatraffic.co.uk> <27DCAFAC-21DB-11D9-B942-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417564F3.7010505@deltatraffic.co.uk> Message-ID: <4b430c8f04101920373d728c8@mail.gmail.com> If you look at how we all evolved, it can give you some ideas. I realise this is overly simplistic, and there's a lot of crossover, but here it is anyway. Men, as the hunters, survived by being very task and concept-focused. I.e., hunting an animal for three days. Women (not being allowed to hunt!) were meanwhile maintaining relationships within the group, raising children etc. So the male audience tends more towards concepts, and female audience towards relationships between concepts. Does that make females better SQL coders? Don't know. So your "Men's" site would be more about the "What". Here are the features, this is what they can do with it. Here's what it looks like. Your "Women's" site is about how it helps them connect to others, and the feelings about the site, how the site/product makes them feel. It's more about *seduction* for female sites. Look up sites -run- by women. How it feels, what's the experience feel like. Pictures of people experiencing. Sure there's cross over, but if you want hard-n-fast rules, its a good starting point. HTH On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:15 +0100, Alex Beston wrote: > > > > > yup point taken. > > sorry, it is a bit chauvinist! > > so what are the needs of women & men re: website presentation? > > rgds, > Alex > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From vreeland at studioframework.com Tue Oct 19 23:22:02 2004 From: vreeland at studioframework.com (Robert Vreeland) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:22:02 -0400 Subject: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes References: <20041019235457.IHLY24841.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@plato> <4175B6E3.6050901@tookish.net> Message-ID: <01b201c4b65c$599d8b40$6401a8c0@studioframework> You can also set up your input fields as an array that PHP can process. In doing so, the form will correctly post back only those items checked. Example below: "; } } ?>
option one
option two
option three
option four
Robert Vreeland Managing Partner StudioFramework vreeland at studioframework.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "noah" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] checked vs. unchecked checkboxes > Gary McPherson wrote (19/10/2004 7:56 PM): > > > I think the simplest way to handle this would be to process all available > > options each time that form is submitted. > > If it's feasible, I think that Gary's is the best solution. > > If you really want to compare the new options to the existing ones, you > will either have to pull the existing options from the DB when you > process the form, or you'll have to put the existing options in a hidden > field in the form itself, then turn it into an array and compare the two > arrays (the existing options vs. the new options) when the form is > processed. > > Cheers, > Noah > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From techwriter at sound-by-design.com Wed Oct 20 00:20:43 2004 From: techwriter at sound-by-design.com (Allen Schaaf) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:20:43 -0700 Subject: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? In-Reply-To: <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019211244.088efb90@mail.sound-by-design.com> At 08:31 PM 10/19/04, Scott Dexter wrote: >--- Allen Schaaf wrote: > > > While I realize this is somewhat off-topic (we are working on > >Try /COMPLETELY/ off-topic. > >There is a chat-specific list right here at evolt.org -- thechat >(http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat) > >Please keep off-topic banter to that list, or at the very least "pay" >for the posting with a :) You are quite correct. I did not pay with a tip, so here it is. /TIP -----> Be very careful about posting any exe files that might have been created by Windows NT, 2000, XP, or any executable file like screen savers, GIF animations, etc., to your web site. The reason is ADS - no, not advertising, but rather Alternate Data Streams. They work sort of like pre-OSX Mac file in that they have two forks. There is the visible one which is the cute greeting card or whatever and the other is quietly installing a back door or Trojan on the computer of the person who downloaded it. At the very least run all files through software like . A very good FAQ is at: http://www.diamondcs.com.au/index.php?page=archive&id=ntfs-streams which is the home of They also have a bunch of other free tools on their downloads page. --------->EndTIP/ And since I was a bad, bad boy, here is another one. /TIP -------> Be very careful opening Word .doc files which have macros. There is one particular one that allows _ANY_ file on your system to be attached and mailed back to the sender when you return the file after you open it, edit it and save it. It is best to avoid Word .doc files if at all possible, but a lot of people compose e-mail in Word and mail via Outlook and have macros in their e-mail that prevent seeing the e-mail unless you enable the macros. I won't give the the code for the exploit here as it is too simple to do. But I will tell you that the problem goes back until at least Word 97 and I'm told Word 95 and Word 4.2 can do it as well. This can be very sneaky as it can be in two point white type in a cell that runs vertical alongside the regular text of the document. The only real protection is opening the file in a plain text editor and saving it again. Yes, you will the fancy stuff and you will lose the "track changes" function, but you will have a safer computing experience as a result. Here is the information from Microsoft about this: > >Links and References > > > >You can use these fields to insert AutoText entries or bookmark text, to >insert text and graphics from other documents or applications, or to >insert cross-references: > > >Field Name Description > > > > >AutoText >Inserts an AutoText entry > >AUTOTEXTLIST >Inserts text based on a style > >Hyperlink >Opens and jumps to the specified file > >IncludePicture >Inserts the specified graphic > >IncludeText >Inserts the contents of another document or the contents marked by a >bookmark in a source document > >Link >Establishes a link with content from another application's file using >object linking and embedding (OLE) > >NoteRef >Inserts the number of a footnote or endnote > >PageRef >Inserts the page number of a bookmark for a cross?reference > >Quote >Inserts the specified text into a document > >Ref >Inserts the contents marked by the specified bookmark > >StyleRef >Inserts text from paragraphs that use the specified style You may say, "So what?" but I can tell you that since certain files on a Windoze box are consistent across most computers, like "My Documents" on the C:\ drive, it is very easy to grab the password file off your computer and hack it with John the Ripper offline and then use a remote access tool that was planted with the ADS mentioned above to gain control over your box(es) and turn it(them) into a spamhaus(en) without you even knowing it. ------> EndTIP/ And I promise I'll be better in the future. Got my lists mixed up. Allen Schaaf Senior Technical Writer and Documentation Developer Certified Network Security Analyst and Intrusion Forensics Investigator - CEH, CHFI Papageno: "What should we say now?" Pamina: "The truth, the truth, ...even if it is a crime." From lists at semioticpixels.com Wed Oct 20 00:29:50 2004 From: lists at semioticpixels.com (chris) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:29:50 -0700 Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f04101920373d728c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000801c4b665$d32e8550$6401a8c0@speedracer> Is this really the intelligence level of this list? -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Courtenay Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:37 PM To: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk; thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] marketing If you look at how we all evolved, it can give you some ideas. I realise this is overly simplistic, and there's a lot of crossover, but here it is anyway. Men, as the hunters, survived by being very task and concept-focused. I.e., hunting an animal for three days. Women (not being allowed to hunt!) were meanwhile maintaining relationships within the group, raising children etc. So the male audience tends more towards concepts, and female audience towards relationships between concepts. Does that make females better SQL coders? Don't know. So your "Men's" site would be more about the "What". Here are the features, this is what they can do with it. Here's what it looks like. Your "Women's" site is about how it helps them connect to others, and the feelings about the site, how the site/product makes them feel. It's more about *seduction* for female sites. Look up sites -run- by women. How it feels, what's the experience feel like. Pictures of people experiencing. Sure there's cross over, but if you want hard-n-fast rules, its a good starting point. HTH On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:15 +0100, Alex Beston wrote: > > > > > yup point taken. > > sorry, it is a bit chauvinist! > > so what are the needs of women & men re: website presentation? > > rgds, > Alex > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and > archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, > evolt ! > -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From hassan at webtuitive.com Wed Oct 20 01:20:44 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:20:44 -0700 Subject: [thelist] PHP - str_replace problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417603BC.5020706@webtuitive.com> Chris Ditty wrote: > Hi all. I'm trying to do a little code snippets page for a site I am > working on. I figured it would be simple enough. I would do a > str_replace and replace the various html codes with the ascii > eqivulant. > $snippetCode = str_replace("\n", "
", $snippet['snippetCode']); > $snippetCode = str_replace("<", ">", $snippetCode); > $snippetCode = str_replace(">", "<", $snippetCode); > $snippetCode = str_replace("&", "&", $snippetCode); > > This is what is in $snippet['snippetCode']. > ?>
> This is what is showing on the web page. > ?<>pre<>? print_r($ArrayName); ?<>/pre<>? Uh, isn't that what you've told it to create? :-) '<' gets turned into '<' which is then turned into '&lt;' * Might want to consider the order of those replacement statements! (*Note: < is actually lt and > is gt) HTH, -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From ken at adOpenStatic.com Wed Oct 20 02:35:41 2004 From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:35:41 +1000 Subject: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c4b665$fb8e0fc0$0500a8c0@kjhome.local> Message-ID: <006c01c4b677$67f772d0$9600a8c0@corp.avanade.org> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Schaaf" Subject: Re: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd? > /TIP -----> > Be very careful about posting any exe files that might > have been created by Windows NT, 2000, XP, or any > executable file like screen savers, GIF animations, etc., > to your web site. > > The reason is ADS - no, not advertising, but rather > Alternate Data Streams. They work sort of like pre-OSX > Mac file in that they have two forks. There is the visible > one which is the cute greeting card or whatever and the > other is quietly installing a back door or Trojan on the > computer of the person who downloaded it. > > At the very least run all files through software > like . a) I don't see the concern with placing .exe files onto your /own/ website. Presumably, if you have the files you know they are safe. The question is whether it's safe for you to download files from someone else's website b) The article linked is incorrect in stating that most security software is incapable of scanning ADS (whilst that may have been true when the words are written, I've been assured by people in the AV industry that this is no longer the case). Every major AV program is now capable of scanning ADS in files as you access them. Keep your AV up-to-date. Cheers Ken From lists at neptunewebworks.com Wed Oct 20 02:46:05 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:46:05 -0700 Subject: [thelist] PHP - str_replace problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417617BD.50309@neptunewebworks.com> Chris Ditty wrote: >Hi all. I'm trying to do a little code snippets page for a site I am >working on. I figured it would be simple enough. I would do a >str_replace and replace the various html codes with the ascii >eqivulant. Unfortunately, it is not working as expected. Can anyone >help with this? > >If anyone can help, it would be appreciated. Also, if you have a >quick and dirty code colorer, I would appreciate that. > > The usual way to quote code snippets is to use one of PHP's handy functions, htmlspecialchars() or htmlentities(). There's also highlight_string() and highlight_file() for displaying source code with simple syntax coloring. Note that the two highlight_ functions by default output rough markup, with font tags and all. But you did say quick and dirty! 
$escaped
"; ?> OR 
$escaped
"; ?> HTH! Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed Oct 20 07:10:09 2004 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:10:09 +0100 Subject: Admin: Re: [thelist] Can we institute a temporary spam filter? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20041019195521.026d6620@mx.delime.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20041019195521.026d6620@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: <20041020131009.5664@polytechnic.co.uk> On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 @114, M. Seyon wrote: >Something that catches any email with words like "vote", "elections", >"President" or any of its derivates and holds it for administrative review? >This need only exist for, I dunno, however many weeks it is till you >Americans vote. I don't know whether we'll need to go down that route just yet, I'll be keeping an extra close eye on list traffic in the next couple of weeks and hope to head off any OT posts before they escalate. But as a friendly reminder people; this is a *worldwide* (not just the U.S.A) list for web development, please stay on topic. We have a list for anything not web development at http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/ thechat I'm CC'ing the sysadmin list in on this and we'll see what the other admins think about the filter idea. Did you know that you can download and install a local copy of the W3C HTML validator (local webserver and Perl required): http://validator.w3.org/docs/install.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Work : http://www.gencon.co.uk Play : http://polytechnic.co.uk Learn : http://evolt.org From joel at spinhead.com Wed Oct 20 08:10:21 2004 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:10:21 -0700 Subject: maintaining signal to noise ratioRE: [thelist] marketing Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616DE1@ireland.spinhead.com> > Is this really the intelligence level of this list? If you disagree with something, feel free to post specific points in rebuttal, or to make other professional commentary rather than making vague negative one-line comments on top of an untrimmed reply (there were *three* footers in that message.) spinhead From bedouglas at earthlink.net Wed Oct 20 09:10:05 2004 From: bedouglas at earthlink.net (bruce) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:10:05 -0700 Subject: [thelist] a tip for US list readers.... [offlist] In-Reply-To: <4175A2F2.90703@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <016901c4b6ae$800b3780$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> get a grip... learn to smile/see the humour... "political spam..!!!".. yeah i guess..don't tie your panties so tight! enjoy your day/night... peace! -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Maximillian Schwanekamp Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 4:28 PM To: bedouglas at earthlink.net; TheList at Evolt Subject: Re: [thelist] a tip for US list readers.... [offlist] bruce wrote: >tip> >don't forget to register/vote!!!! >if you don't register/vote.. don't complain!!! >and the rest of thw world might thank you.. curse you!!! >/tip> > > Tip spam!? Didn't this just get addressed today? While we may or may not agree with your sentiment, *please refrain* from posting political statements on TheList. We have a dedicated list, thechat, for this sort of thing. http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat No matter how good your underlying code is, a lot of typos and spacing issues can add up to a negative experience for your client/end-user. Too many typos suggests that your underlying code might also be slipshod. For example, I recently saw a control panel interface with a customer type listing where there were two status types "Free" and "Payed." Many other misspellings and grammatical errors in the admin interface really detracted from site owner's respect for the developer who built the site. Since developers are often slightly less polished when it comes to human language grammar, get someone to edit your scripts' output before letting your client/end-user see it. Even minor mistakes/typos, when taken in aggregate, could hurt your business. -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From mail at kannerkreative.com Wed Oct 20 09:08:53 2004 From: mail at kannerkreative.com (ellen kanner) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:08:53 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Regular expressions Message-ID: <930646F2-22A1-11D9-A4F5-000A95DBA700@kannerkreative.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:49:49 -0500 From: Rob Smith Subject: [thelist] Regular expressions in Dreamweaver (2 pieces) Reply-To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" Message: 8 Hi, 1) I got the Album Creator 2.1 for Dreamweaver MX and it's flipping out on larger photo albums. This one in particular consists of about 370 photos. It dies and says "waiting for Fireworks" when Fireworks is long finished. The Photo Albums are not created. By any remote-not-in-this-lifetime chance, do you know what the upper limit is? 1 Supplemental) I created the photo album the normal way and it worked fine. 2) Which leads me to regular expressions. I've got about *ehem* 370 find and replaces to go through. However, I need to use regular expressions. I have:
DSC0024.jpg
BP16.jpg
115_1566.jpg
PICT0276.jpg Those are the four known patterns (
!@#$.jpg) Can someone clue me in on the regular expression to clear out that mess between the
and the ? I tried Dreamweaver's help and like all software help systems, it was useless. Rob Smith ------------------------------ Hi Rob, Sorry, I get this in digest form and am a little behind on the reading. If you haven't found your solution yet, try using greps to clean out code. I use it in GoLive and BBEdit - I believe it will work as a regular expression in Dreamweaver too. Try
[^>]* where [^>]* is the magic device. ellen ... ... ... ... ... ... ellen kanner 603.448.1138 603.398.3554 (c) www.kannerkreative.com From court3nay at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 10:17:37 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:17:37 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Javascript/mozilla mouseup event weirdness Message-ID: <4b430c8f041020081763d36f5c@mail.gmail.com> I'm doing a drag-n-drop operation by using onclick, onmousemove and onmouseup. The user can 'trash' an image by dragging it out of its container div. (the image is removed with removeChild) If the container div is then empty, it is also removed from the page. Here's the problem: when you remove the container, mozilla decides that you are, in fact, dragging, and starts highlighting text. Any ideas on stopping the event propagation? (this does not occur in IE, and does not occur when you remove the dragged image) I can post code if it helps, but I'm sure there's a one-line solution. I think the key is, that because there's no current event to work with, mozilla kinda jumps up a level, and assumes you've been trying to hilight text.. how would I break out of the event cycle? TIA From dsbrady at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 10:27:03 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:27:03 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bfd146804102008277b8e3b8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:59 -0500, ANDREA STREIGHT wrote: > "Pre-selection" of boxes, boxes that are already checked prior to any user > selection, is an abomination. > > Forcing options on a user violates the fundamental concept of the Web: user > empowerment and freedom to interact or not interact, power to choose, to > select on one's own initiative. > > I personally am aware of no situation where "pre-selection" is ever > permissible, from the standpoints of ethics, usability, and credibility. So, if the option was "Do not send me marketing e-mail" it should be left unchecked? There are times when checking a box by default makes sense. Yes, my example could have been worded "Send me marketing e-mail" and to have it unchecked by default would have the same effect. But is my example really an "abomination"? Somehow I don't think so. If it were, would that be found in the Book of Romans or Corinthians? Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From rob.smith at THERMON.com Wed Oct 20 10:27:02 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:27:02 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Regular expressions Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9B@smtmb.tmc.local> Try
[^>]* Neat! I ended up using (\w+)\.jpg Rob From john at userfrenzy.com Wed Oct 20 10:41:57 2004 From: john at userfrenzy.com (John Handelaar) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:41:57 +0100 Subject: [thelist] ADMIN: Clarification about what's off-topic on thelist Message-ID: <41768745.9020107@userfrenzy.com> If it's not about web development, you don't want to be posting it here. More specifically, we're going to be watching like crazy to make sure that, in particular, no threads AT ALL regarding a forthcoming event on November 2nd in the United States are permitted to get traction here. As mentioned before, we have an entire list dedicated to the off-topic which you can join here: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat Thanks in advance for your co-operation - but I'll add that if we don't get that co-operation, we'll start robomoderating thelist. John Handelaar on behalf of evolt.org From evolt at muinar.com Wed Oct 20 10:50:34 2004 From: evolt at muinar.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:50:34 +0200 Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <000801c4b665$d32e8550$6401a8c0@speedracer> References: <4b430c8f04101920373d728c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20041020173632.0215bbe0@mail.muinar.com> At 22:29 19.10.2004 -0700, you wrote: >Is this really the intelligence level of this list? > >-----Original Message----- >From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org >[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Courtenay > >If you look at how we all evolved, it can give you some ideas. I realise >this is overly simplistic, and there's a lot of crossover, but here it is >anyway. There's surely a difference. Look at car ads: Men are driving lonesomely through vast countries and over rough mountain passes (--> freedom, hunt, struggling through). Whilest women adore their baby-faced, en-vogue city cars that make them look beautful and give them social standing. Or maybe the advertisers are all wrong... though, to me, the first version is much more appealing :) Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Oct 20 11:22:58 2004 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:22:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: [thelist] Website in Multiple Languages Message-ID: <34916.141.122.9.173.1098289378.squirrel@141.122.9.173> Bob asked: > As a general matter, what methods are used to present content in > multiple languages? I was thinking some sort of CMS where the data is > stored in a db and translated "on the fly" into the appropriate > language -- but I'm new to this area. Hi Bob You have 2 levels of problem here: 1) Translating and storing the info This breaks down into a) What info? You have both the page content, and all the labels that go around it - stuff like navigation, instructions ("Search") etc. For the labels, you'd usually have a dictionary for each language, so navigation label 1234 is "Search" in English and "Rechercher" en Francais. You may also need to go to different levels for language differentiation: EN_GB, EN_US etc. Don't forget images too! Take a look at how (for example) ZenCart does it. For the page content, you'll need to store the manually translated content in all your multiple languages for each content asset - each page with all its data items. As has previously been mentioned, machine translation really, really doesn't work if you want to effectively communicate. Not only are there the issues of machine translators not understanding what you mean, but also the problem of nuance and idiom. Even between versions of English, there are significant risks of misunderstanding - I forget the phrase, but I've worked on a project where the exact same words meant *diametrically opposite* things in US and UK English. 2) Presenting the info Next you need to work out which info to present to the user, and how. Browsers are pretty good at telling servers what the user's preferred language is. Right now, I'm in French Switzerland, in a client environment. My client provided PC has default browser prefs to request French. My laptop (on which I'm typing) is set to UK English. When I visit my own website, the interface (ie all the labels, helptext and so on) are in French on one machine, and English on the other, automagically. If I had multilingual content too, that would also localise. You might want to think about the costs & benefits of allowing users to set a preference without mucking about in the browser. That could be a simple cookie thing, or if you have user registration, then an explicit user preference. But there's a fun problem specifically with the interface, particularly with tightly defined non-liquid layouts that take into account given lengths of nav text: the same information is a different size in different language. German in particular tends to be significantly longer than the English equivalent. Also, if you're in different language, you'll need to play the characterset game. Not every language (actually, very few) will display nicely in ASCII. Even among single byte, left-to-right languages, you've got a whole range of fun accents and non-ASCII characters. Google for ISO 8859 for more... To be honest, many CMSs (particularly OSS ones used in multiple countries) will handle this for you out of the box. Otherwise, it's a Hard Thing to code from scratch. Cheers Martin -- "Names, once they are in common use | Spammers: Send me email to quickly become mere sounds, their | -> yumyum at easyweb.co.uk <- to train etymology being buried, like so many | my filter. Currently killing over of the earth's marvels, beneath the | 99.7% of all known spams stone dead. dust of habit." - Salman Rushdie | http://nuclearelephant.com/projects/dspam From joshua at waetech.com Wed Oct 20 11:37:18 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:37:18 -0400 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed Message-ID: Help needed... This is way off topic but I'm in a bind... I need help converting some BDB files (MS Works Database) to something more portable, such as Excel, CSV, whatever. I'm hoping it's as simple as get file, open it, save as, email back to me. Please email me offlist if you can help. Sometimes SQL Server will seem to not work on Port 1433 even though every setting you see implies that it should work... The network libraries are installed, the TCP/IP protocol is set up, etc. Use "netstat.exe -an" to confirm nothing is listening on port 1433. Then, open up regedit and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MSSQLServer\MSSQLServer\SuperSocketNet Lib\Tcp Make sure TcpDynamicPorts is blank Make sure TcpHideFlag is 0 Make sure TcpPort is 1433 If they don't match the above, make the changes. Stop and restart sql. Use netstat -an and confirm that the server is listening on TCP 0.0.0.0:1433. Maybe, just maybe, your problems will be fixed. <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From khurtwilliams at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 11:38:19 2004 From: khurtwilliams at gmail.com (Khurt Williams) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:38:19 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: <51CDCA43-2239-11D9-9D7F-003065DA9D1C@rmdesign.com> References: <41756B52.1010801@washsq.com> <51CDCA43-2239-11D9-9D7F-003065DA9D1C@rmdesign.com> Message-ID: <3006f9fb0410200938968196e@mail.gmail.com> See also http://www.opencms.org/opencms/en/ On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:42:36 -0400, robertm-list @ rmdesign. com wrote: > On 19-Oct-04, at 3:30 PM, Theodore Serbinski wrote: > > So I think I've decided on Mambo as my CMS of choice to use on all > > future projects and it seems to have the biggest user base out there. > > Mambo is good. One possible issue, it seems to be limited to only a > couple levels of organization.. categories and sections I believe. If > you need subsections, there may be a third party plugin I don't know. > > It doesn't have much in the way of photo handling capabilities. For > example, captioning a photo is not possible. There is a plugin for > Gallery. > > As a graphic designer, I have to add I've only seen one Mambo website > that didn't look amateurish. There are plenty of really awful looking > templates for sale. WordPress or Movable Type aren't what you are > looking for, but they have some nicely done templates. > > But overall, Mambo is easy to use and seems to be good for small > businesses and individuals. > > http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ may not be entirely up to date but does a > good job of summarizing features. Most other cms sites seem to mostly > have drek posted by developers or ecstatic users. > hth > > robert mcgonegal > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Sincerely, Khurt Williams, CISSP http://ossnews.blogspot.com From court3nay at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 12:12:36 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:12:36 -0700 Subject: [thelist] marketing In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20041020173632.0215bbe0@mail.muinar.com> References: <4b430c8f04101920373d728c8@mail.gmail.com> <000801c4b665$d32e8550$6401a8c0@speedracer> <5.0.0.25.2.20041020173632.0215bbe0@mail.muinar.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410201012183751fa@mail.gmail.com> :) As the relationship-based males breed more, and concept-based males breed less, the stereotype of 'male' personality becomes less relevant. In terms of web design, it becomes less and less important to differentiate. However, you have 3,000 generations or so before its really noticable... Anyway, the key is building it into your whole site structure. Have entirely different site structures for the different personality types. Get to one version with emo/relationship words in the links... get to the other with 'concept' words. The link with the picture of the baby goes to guess where! Incidentally, there's a group of 'rebels' in South America (FARC, if you're interested) who self-govern (much to the government's dismay) but have succeeded in bringing law and order to their whole region-- their success is due, in part, to only allowing females to become regional/village leaders -- ostensibly because they are good at maintaining relationships, whereas the males are the farmers, or soldiers, etc, who go out and shoot at the government troops. My point? It's not just a dumb theory I cooked up in some delusional moment! > There's surely a difference. Look at car ads: Men are driving lonesomely > through vast countries and over rough mountain passes (--> freedom, hunt, > struggling through). Whilest women adore their baby-faced, en-vogue city > cars that make them look beautful and give them social standing. How does it *feel* as opposed to how can you *use it*.. From rob.smith at THERMON.com Wed Oct 20 12:38:09 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:38:09 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9D@smtmb.tmc.local> Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? Muchos Gracias amigos, Rob Smith From astreight at msn.com Wed Oct 20 12:47:30 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:47:30 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked or unchecked boxes Message-ID: Scott Brady: I repeat: I said I personally know of no situation where a box could legitimately be "pre-checked", but I'm not Omniscient, so there may indeed be a permissible context. I still have not heard or seen any. Yes--"check here to receive newsletter" is vastly superior to "uncheck here to not receive newsletter". Would you like to go shopping at the grocery store, and all the carts are "pre-filled" with several items the store thinks most people should want to buy? Would you like to have your spouse "pre-selected" and you have to divorce the person to "un-select" them? Would you like to have your TV programs "pre-selected"? Your government officials, from top to bottom? All the marketing gurus I know of, including me, state that consumers appreciate and seek choice. It's *almost* always better to offer *multiple* versions of products, rather than "one size (and color) fits all". See: in every case, I question--why are you "pre-selecting" for me? I suspect that this is wide open for con artists to hope you are in a hurry, as the majority of web users are, so you may neglect, in your hurry, to "un-check" the option. Sweepstakes promoters, junk mail distributors, etc. have been trying scams like this for ages, and it took legislation to stop them. Of course these slugs just stoop to newer levels of lowness and use a different ploy until the law comes down on it. If anyone out there knows a legit reason to "pre-select", other than the specific case originally mentioned, which is very different from what I thought it was, I'd be pleased to hear about it. I know that even the most universal rules often have some exceptions to them. By knowing the exceptions, we gain deeper wisdom. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From mr.sanders at designshift.com Wed Oct 20 13:16:09 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:16:09 -0300 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9D@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9D@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <4176AB69.5090006@designshift.com> On 10/20/2004 2:38 PM Rob Smith wrote: > Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? > > Muchos Gracias amigos, > > Rob Smith I don't think there's any sure-fire 100% way to do this, but you may want to try this method previously mentioned on thelist: http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20040524/159605.html HTH -- Sarah Sweeney :: Web Developer & Programmer Portfolio :: http://sarah.designshift.com Blog :: http://hardedge.ca Family :: http://geekjock.ca From Warren.Vail at schwab.com Wed Oct 20 13:19:05 2004 From: Warren.Vail at schwab.com (Vail, Warren) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:19:05 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? Message-ID: <72138202E59CD6118E960002A52CD9D2178E2A4A@n1025smx.nt.schwab.com> JavaScript? http://iedeveloper.net/a/FAQdetect1.php Warren Vail -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:38 AM To: Thelist (E-mail) Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? Muchos Gracias amigos, Rob Smith -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From rich at richpoints.com Wed Oct 20 13:19:00 2004 From: rich at richpoints.com (Rich Points) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:19:00 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9D@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <05ab01c4b6d1$45e67dd0$560ba8c0@LAPCHICKEN> > Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? > This is not exactly what you asked for but it may be of help http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp cheers Rich From chris at logorocks.com Wed Oct 20 13:22:17 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:22:17 +0100 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4bfd146804102008277b8e3b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bfd146804102008277b8e3b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > There are times when checking a box by default makes sense. Yes, my > example could have been worded "Send me marketing e-mail" and to have > it unchecked by default would have the same effect. But is my example > really an "abomination"? Somehow I don't think so. If it were, would > that be found in the Book of Romans or Corinthians? Maybe not an abomination, but something kinda close. Jakob Nielsen wrote an Alertbox on this: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040927.html His guideline 7 is particularly relevant: > 7. Use positive and active wording for checkbox labels, so that it's > clear what will happen if the user turns on the checkbox. In other > words, avoid negations such as "Don't send me more email," which would > mean that the user would have to check the box in order for something > not to happen. > ? Write checkbox labels so that users know both what will happen if > they check a particular box, and what will happen if they leave it > unchecked. > ? If you can't do this, it might be better to use two radio buttons > -- one for having the feature on, and one for having it off -- and > write clear labels for each of the two cases. Not following this guideline is only one step from actively tricking the user ("Check here to not not receive some annoying spam"). Kind regards, CK. From noah at tookish.net Wed Oct 20 13:23:59 2004 From: noah at tookish.net (noah) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:23:59 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4176AD3F.6060106@tookish.net> ANDREA STREIGHT wrote (20/10/2004 1:47 PM): > I repeat: I said I personally know of no situation where a box could > legitimately be "pre-checked", but I'm not Omniscient, so there may indeed > be a permissible context. > > I still have not heard or seen any. If the user has previously selected certain options, and the selected options are currently stored in a database or elsewhere, and the form in question is a "modify options" form, then it's perfectly reasonable, and I think preferable, for the options that were previously selected to be pre-checked. I think that this is the situation that was previously described. If not, it's still a legitimate reason for pre-checking checkboxes. Cheers, Noah From court3nay at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 13:36:08 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:36:08 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102011367c1db7f3@mail.gmail.com> Ok, I'm coding one right now. Do you have a better way? :) "Edit Your Existing Viewing Preferences" "Please select all the options you wish to display on your start page" Current selection prefs are checked. Yes, I'm kinda cheating.. the selections are based on previous choices. But preselection, nevertheless. > Would you like to go shopping at the grocery store, and all the carts are > "pre-filled" with several items the store thinks most people should want to > buy? If it was intelligent, and based on MY preferences, yes. I buy the same cereal, vegetables etc every week. Boring I know, but easy. Would save a bunch of time! It's not about what 'most' people want, its about what 'I' want, and if I could set that up so it was a regular thing, great! I don't know how you can apply this to websites > If anyone out there knows a legit reason to "pre-select", other than the > specific case originally mentioned, which is very different from what I > thought it was, I'd be pleased to hear about it. I think it comes down to your page's wording as well. Example form Create a new photo category Name [ text box ] [ x ] Upload my photos here by default Its checked if there are no existing categories, or if other categories have over 100 photos in them, or some other criteria. I think the '... by default' is a strong case for it. Also, if you recommend something, like, [ x ] force me to login every time (recommended) This option could be done with a button, redirecting to another form, etc. You could, however, change the wording [ ] allow unsecured login means kinda the same thing, however, some people like to use positive wording, and often the meaning is clearer if there's a checkbox to tick. and if 99% of people are tickin' it, then, tick it for them! From dsbrady at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 13:42:43 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:42:43 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bfd146804102011426415c4d7@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:47:30 -0500, ANDREA STREIGHT wrote: > If anyone out there knows a legit reason to "pre-select", other than the > specific case originally mentioned, which is very different from what I > thought it was, I'd be pleased to hear about it. For me, it depends on if I think that most people viewing the page will check the box or not. If it's a situation where I can reasonably (and ethically) presume that most people will want a box checked, if I pre-select the box, I save most of my users a click. (If I know that most of my users want HTML e-mail [say I've polled them], then in their profile, I may have "Send e-mail in HTML format" pre-checked, so that most of my users won't have to check it.") Yes, it can be used inethically. But, if you reverse the wording, leaving a box unchecked can also be unethical. Personally, I don't see how leaving it pre-checked or unchecked removes the choice from the user. If they're not paying attention, they can get just as screwed from an unchecked box as they can from a checked box. The important part isn't whether the box is checked or unchecked -- it's what checking/unchecking that box actually represents. Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From cditty at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 14:39:19 2004 From: cditty at gmail.com (Chris Ditty) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:39:19 -0500 Subject: [thelist] PHP - str_replace problem In-Reply-To: <417617BD.50309@neptunewebworks.com> References: <417617BD.50309@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: Thanks. The highlight_string is exactly what I needed. Hassan, yea, I keep getting those backwards. Always have. I guess the brain cells that control that memory have long since burned out. :) From ron.luther at hp.com Wed Oct 20 15:17:36 2004 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:17:36 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B7CB@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Rob Smith asked: >>Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? Hi Rob, I'd recommend Aardvark's classic 2-part article: http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_I/17/2295/index.html http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_II/20/2297/index.html HTH, RonL. From headlemur at lemurzone.com Wed Oct 20 15:28:02 2004 From: headlemur at lemurzone.com (the head lemur) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:28:02 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes References: <4bfd146804102008277b8e3b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003501c4b6e3$4c5fe180$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net> > > "Pre-selection" of boxes, boxes that are already checked prior to any user > > selection, is an abomination. I agree. My language selection would be a bit saltier, See Below... > There are times when checking a box by default makes sense. There are no times/zero/zip/nada when having a check box prechecked makes a n y sense. Let's review. A check box is a form element. Usage of a checkbox implies that you have made a decision to gather information from a visitor whom you hope the client will turn into a sale, which is the whole point of using a form. Or at least that is the theory. It allows you the ability to offer the client's customer a series of choices, of which none, some or all can be checked. This has it's perils, and is outside of this discussion. If it is not a choice why is it being offered? By attempting to use pre-select options you have failed to provide the client and their customers with the ability to make decisions. And in a lot of cases abandonment of the customer's interest, which looses the opportunity for the client to make a sale. Which will impact your bottom line. the head lemur blog: http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ Community: http://www.evolt.org From Anthony at Baratta.com Wed Oct 20 15:40:53 2004 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:40:53 -0700 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041020134032.0bb711e0@maditalian.baratta.com> At 09:37 AM 10/20/2004, Joshua Olson wrote: >I need help converting some BDB files (MS Works Database) to something more >portable, such as Excel, CSV, whatever. I'm hoping it's as simple as get >file, open it, save as, email back to me. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q197894 -- Anthony Baratta "Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps to get up in the morning." - Emo Phillips From joshua at waetech.com Wed Oct 20 15:47:29 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:47:29 -0400 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041020134032.0bb711e0@maditalian.baratta.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Baratta > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:41 PM > > At 09:37 AM 10/20/2004, Joshua Olson wrote: > > >I need help converting some BDB files (MS Works Database) to > something > >more portable, such as Excel, CSV, whatever. I'm hoping > it's as simple > >as get file, open it, save as, email back to me. > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q197894 Anthony, Great link. But... Step 1. Open the database in Works. Herein lies the problem. I don't have Works. Perhaps *somebody* can help me out here? :-) <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From dsbrady at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 15:43:29 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:43:29 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <003501c4b6e3$4c5fe180$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net> References: <4bfd146804102008277b8e3b8@mail.gmail.com> <003501c4b6e3$4c5fe180$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <4bfd14680410201343105543d5@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:28:02 -0700, the head lemur wrote: > > Let's review. > A check box is a form element. Usage of a checkbox implies that you have > made a decision to gather information from a visitor whom you hope the > client will turn into a sale, which is the whole point of using a form. Or That's a pretty narrow definition of the point of using a form. If I'm having users of my non-profit swim team site fill out a profile, I'm not exactly certain type of "sale" I'm supposed to be making. > at least that is the theory. It allows you the ability to offer the client's > customer a series of choices, of which none, some or all can be checked. > This has it's perils, and is outside of this discussion. > > If it is not a choice why is it being offered? Since when is having a checkbox prechecked not offering them a choice? If it's prechecked, it doesn't suddenly become disabled. > By attempting to use pre-select options you have failed to provide the > client and their customers with the ability to make decisions. Yes, because apparently they've lost all use of their mouse buttons. Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From rick.good at shiesl.com Wed Oct 20 15:48:12 2004 From: rick.good at shiesl.com (Rick) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:48:12 +0200 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041020134032.0bb711e0@maditalian.baratta.com> Message-ID: I have MacLink which might do it. It depends on which version of MS Works. Rick On 10/20/04 10:40 PM, "Anthony Baratta" wrote: > At 09:37 AM 10/20/2004, Joshua Olson wrote: > >> I need help converting some BDB files (MS Works Database) to something more >> portable, such as Excel, CSV, whatever. I'm hoping it's as simple as get >> file, open it, save as, email back to me. > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q197894 -- ?Life is so much easier when one accepts it.? Rick Good From joshua at waetech.com Wed Oct 20 15:45:42 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:45:42 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <003501c4b6e3$4c5fe180$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: head lemur > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:28 PM > > > > "Pre-selection" of boxes, boxes that are already checked prior to > > > any user selection, is an abomination. > > I agree. My language selection would be a bit saltier, See Below... > > > > There are times when checking a box by default makes sense. > > There are no times/zero/zip/nada when having a check box > prechecked makes a n y sense. Devils advocate for a moment. Scenario one... Let's say you want to give the user the option to receive a copy of the information upon receipt and history has shown that 99.9% of people want a receipt. You have a couple options: 1. Give them an unchecked checkbox that is labeled "send me a receipt". 99.9% of people want a receipt, but it seems likely that less than that will check the box by simple oversight. 2. Give them an unchecked checkbox that is labeled "do not send me a receipt". This will help that 99.9% of people get the receipt. But, it violates the Jakob Nielsen rule about using negatives. 3. Give them radio buttons? Now the question becomes more complicated... "would you like to receive a receipt?" Ok, so if I select "Yes" am I actually going to get one, or am I just telling them I want one? Also, presentation gets all gummed up, potentially. Because of the nature of the question, you would expect the question to appear before the answers. Depending on how the form is laid out, this may "break the flow" so to speak. 4. Give them a pre-checked checkbox that is labeled "send me a receipt". Does this not seem like the best option? Scenario two... A person is updating their preferences. The last time they updated their settings they specifically checked an option. When they look now, would it not be nice to have the same option checked? <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 15:55:18 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <003501c4b6e3$4c5fe180$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <20041020205518.64409.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> > Let's review. > A check box is a form element. Usage of a checkbox implies that you > have > made a decision to gather information from a visitor whom you hope > the > client will turn into a sale, which is the whole point of using a > form. Or Um, I believe here is the crux of the polarization in the discussion here. Having a form doesn't always mean I'm conducting a sale, and having a form certainly doesn't always mean it's an unknown visitor. Sometimes it's a known person (ooh, a novel concept indeed), sometimes the values /need/ to be prepopulated as part of the application requirements. If I have a form of preferences read back from a database, or a default set of choices based on application requirements as given by the stakeholders, or even better-- a user-selected grouping of selected items (i.e. a "Typical list" vs "Complete list") then I'd better make damn sure they're prepopulated as appropriate, otherwise it's a bug. I hope this is painfully obvious, and I know probably somewhat away from the central intent of the "never check a checkbox for someone," but dammit, never say "never." All in moderation and best informed decisions, folks :) sgd From rob.smith at THERMON.com Wed Oct 20 16:02:38 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:02:38 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEA7@smtmb.tmc.local> http://www.evolt.org/article/Real_World_Browser_Size_Stats_Part_I/17/2295/in dex.html VERY Cleaver! Rob From peter.schlueter at pcadvocates.com Wed Oct 20 16:07:16 2004 From: peter.schlueter at pcadvocates.com (Peter L. Schlueter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:07:16 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: <4175790D.2020402@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: I too am looking for a good CMS. Open source if possible. However, I have a question(s) that this list may help me resolve. I try to do my websites in well formed html/css. Validated through the W3C. The questions are as follows. 1. For the CMS to work, do you need to use the CMS program to develop the page? 2. OR can you adapt the CMS to fit the developed page? 3. Client management of the site from the Client's browser standard with most CMS systems? 4. Which leads to...Is cross browser compatibility generally part of a CMS system? 5. Does the list know of any CMS systems that are not dependent on table based layout? I am still a noooobie in this web world, so any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Pete --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 From lists at neptunewebworks.com Wed Oct 20 16:22:15 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:22:15 -0700 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4176D707.5010809@neptunewebworks.com> Joshua Olson wrote: >Step 1. Open the database in Works. > >Herein lies the problem. I don't have Works. Perhaps *somebody* can help >me out here? > > Joshua my wife's PC has Works still installed (oops). Get me offlist and I'd be happy to give you a hand. Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From brian at hondaswap.com Wed Oct 20 17:04:50 2004 From: brian at hondaswap.com (brian cummiskey) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:04:50 -0400 Subject: [thelist] js/css show div based on onchange Message-ID: <4176E102.9020401@hondaswap.com> I'm working on a basic form for a client. They want to show an extra question about the router below -if and only if- the option of DSL is selected/active/changed to via the select form element. here's what i have so far:
Current Home Internet Type
Now this div shows all the time. I don't want it to show unless the select above has been moved to DSL. Appearently, disply:none; doesn't work like this? here's the function I came up with, which also fails. function fillrouter() { if(document.frmdefault.internet_type.value == "DSL") { document.dslarea.style.display="inline"; } else document.dslarea.style.display="none"; } any suggestions? From John.Brooking at sappi.com Wed Oct 20 16:56:03 2004 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (John.Brooking at sappi.com) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:56:03 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Content area with book borders? Message-ID: <046D7511B5DBFC41B4CF3E696EB2CC200135A726@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> Hi, all, Here's a question of the standard "Is this possible?" variety. I'm offering to put up a photo album site for my high school class, for pictures of our recent reunion. For a variety of reasons which I will recount if you really want me to, I'm taking the approach of coding it myself rather than go with a service or package. (It should be pretty simple.) The home page[0] will be a picture of our yearbook, clicking on which takes you "inside" the book. For the inside pages, I want to design a template with these characteristics: * Is fluid in both width and height, expanding to fill the screen width and content height; * Has a "book" border to give the content the appearance of being inside a book. I have a example page here[1], but it's got a few problems. As you can see if you view the source, I'm reverting back to the stone age of table-based layouts, because it seemed easier than CSS (I know, I know, this is just because I don't know CSS as well) and I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. (However, CSS-based suggestions are certainly welcome.) Because of where I want the content area to be, I had to do some colspan / rowspan tricks, and I think that's making the spacing not work well. You can see that the center binding image at the top and bottom is not centered. Also, if you make the width small enough, the height of the row containing the "Contents" tab grows larger than the image, leaving a gap. I have posted an image[2] of how I set up the table rows and columns. The tricky part is I want the content area (the cell labeled R2-3C2-6) to go right up to the left and right edges of the book image, including over the page turn images at the bottom. This required that the content area span multiple columns, and I think this is ruining the centering of the binding images in column 4. Also, the contents tab requires that the content area span rows, which is probably causing the gapping problem there. So my "simple" table-based layout is getting unwieldy. (I know, you told me so!) So, what advice: 1) Forget tables, use CSS 2) Or is there a table solution, perhaps made possible by simplying the design somewhat? 3) Or can you recommend a package or service, free or very inexpensive, that would produce this effect for me? Thanks for any advice. [0] http://www.shoestringcms.com/personal/Tatler84/ [1] http://www.shoestringcms.com/personal/Tatler84/try2/photopage.html [2] http://www.shoestringcms.com/personal/Tatler84/try2/LayoutPlan.jpg - John This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From pp.koch at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 17:21:40 2004 From: pp.koch at gmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:21:40 +0200 Subject: [thelist] js/css show div based on onchange In-Reply-To: <4176E102.9020401@hondaswap.com> References: <4176E102.9020401@hondaswap.com> Message-ID: <21e4a12804102015214dc04d8e@mail.gmail.com> > I'm working on a basic form for a client. They want to show an extra > question about the router below -if and only if- the option of DSL is > selected/active/changed to via the select form element. > > Now this div shows all the time. I don't want it to show unless the > select above has been moved to DSL. > > any suggestions? http://www.digital-web.com/articles/forms_usability_and_the_w3c_dom/ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- ppk, freelance web developer Interactie, copywriting, JavaScript, integratie http://www.quirksmode.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ From astreight at msn.com Wed Oct 20 17:38:56 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:38:56 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes Message-ID: head lemur and Chris Kavanaugh: thanks for substantiating further how "pre-selection" is indeed an abomination, and a lack of marketing imagination. Good old Jakob Nielsen, I forgot how he spoke of this lunacy. Pre-selection of user preferences based on previous profile: this is an entirely different matter. Of course, this is clearly not "pre-selection" but "post-selection" reminder. This is entirely altruistic and to be encouraged for convenience to users. Not a problem. But this con artist type "pre-checked boxes" is similar to spam. Imposing things on users that they did not give you permission to impose. Ever heard of Permission Marketing? Why did someone have to bring up my pet peeve again: HTML newsletters. I hate HTML email, for security reasons. So I don't care if 99% of subscribers choose HTML newsletters. Are they too lazy to check that option box? We must never assume we know what a specific customer wants, unless they tell us. This preselected options junk is another symtom of corporate arrogance and old fashioned "push" marketing, when the modern philosophy is "pull" marketing. Seduce, don't bully! (Ladies out there will agree here, I think). I still have not heard one legit use of "pre-selected" outside of the entirely different matter of "post-selection" verification for profile updates and so forth. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From brainsquared at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 17:43:13 2004 From: brainsquared at gmail.com (Brent Morris) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:43:13 -0400 Subject: [thelist] which open source CMS? In-Reply-To: References: <4175790D.2020402@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <473083e204102015435fce0dd2@mail.gmail.com> If you are familiar with ColdFusion at all (or want to be) then I recommend FarCry (http://farcry.daemon.com.au/) as a good standards-compliant, cross-browser, open-source, non-table-based-layout-reliant CMS On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:07:16 -0400, Peter L. Schlueter wrote: > I too am looking for a good CMS. Open source if possible. However, I have > a question(s) that this list may help me resolve. > I try to do my websites in well formed html/css. Validated through the W3C. > The questions are as follows. > > 1. For the CMS to work, do you need to use the CMS program to develop the > page? > 2. OR can you adapt the CMS to fit the developed page? > 3. Client management of the site from the Client's browser standard with > most CMS systems? > 4. Which leads to...Is cross browser compatibility generally part of a CMS > system? > 5. Does the list know of any CMS systems that are not dependent on table > based layout? > > I am still a noooobie in this web world, so any help is greatly appreciated. > Thanks > > Pete > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 > > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- Brent Morris From dsbrady at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 18:16:26 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:16:26 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bfd1468041020161630f33c70@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:38:56 -0500, ANDREA STREIGHT wrote: > head lemur and Chris Kavanaugh: > > thanks for substantiating further how "pre-selection" is indeed an > abomination, and a lack of marketing imagination. > > Good old Jakob Nielsen, I forgot how he spoke of this lunacy. Must . . . not . . . start . . . religious . . . .war > Why did someone have to bring up my pet peeve again: HTML newsletters. I > hate HTML email, for security reasons. So I don't care if 99% of subscribers > choose HTML newsletters. Are they too lazy to check that option box? So, you think that because the 1% uf your users who don't want HTML e-mail are too lazy to uncheck that option box, it's ok to make the vast majority of your users check it? It's the same procedure (1 mouse click). Doesn't it make sense to make it easier on the 99% instead of catering to the 1%? > We must never assume we know what a specific customer wants, unless they > tell us. It's called knowing your audience. > This preselected options junk is another symtom of corporate > arrogance and old fashioned "push" marketing, when the modern philosophy is > "pull" marketing. Seduce, don't bully! (Ladies out there will agree here, I > think). You're assuming that by pre-checking a box you're "pushing" something, when you may just be trying to make it easier for your users. Here's another example (based on The Motley Fool message boards): When you're replying to a message, you have two options: Post the message to the boards and Send-email to the author to whom you're replying. You have to select at least one of them, but you can also select both of them. The vast, vast, vast majority of the replies are posted to the board and not e-mailed to the authoer of the post you're replying to. They default the "Post to Board" box being checked, with the other one unchecked. Based on the reasoning put forth by both you and Jakob Nielsen, the first box should be unchecked (requiring thousands of your users posting cumulatively thousands of replies every day to click that box with EVERY reply). Worse, with Jakob's logic, it should be unchecked and worded "Do not post to the board". That really makes more sense to you? Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From peter at easylistbox.com Wed Oct 20 18:34:11 2004 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:34:11 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4bfd1468041020161630f33c70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d601c4b6fd$4df10a00$0300a8c0@monkeyhouse> Why would Nielsen want it to say "Do not post to the board"? Didn't he dictate that options should be positive rather than negative? -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org On Behalf Of Scott Brady On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:38:56 -0500, ANDREA STREIGHT wrote: > head lemur and Chris Kavanaugh: > > thanks for substantiating further how "pre-selection" is indeed an > abomination, and a lack of marketing imagination. > > Good old Jakob Nielsen, I forgot how he spoke of this lunacy. Must . . . not . . . start . . . religious . . . .war > Why did someone have to bring up my pet peeve again: HTML newsletters. > I hate HTML email, for security reasons. So I don't care if 99% of > subscribers choose HTML newsletters. Are they too lazy to check that > option box? So, you think that because the 1% uf your users who don't want HTML e-mail are too lazy to uncheck that option box, it's ok to make the vast majority of your users check it? It's the same procedure (1 mouse click). Doesn't it make sense to make it easier on the 99% instead of catering to the 1%? > We must never assume we know what a specific customer wants, unless > they tell us. It's called knowing your audience. > This preselected options junk is another symtom of corporate arrogance > and old fashioned "push" marketing, when the modern philosophy is > "pull" marketing. Seduce, don't bully! (Ladies out there will agree > here, I think). You're assuming that by pre-checking a box you're "pushing" something, when you may just be trying to make it easier for your users. Here's another example (based on The Motley Fool message boards): When you're replying to a message, you have two options: Post the message to the boards and Send-email to the author to whom you're replying. You have to select at least one of them, but you can also select both of them. The vast, vast, vast majority of the replies are posted to the board and not e-mailed to the authoer of the post you're replying to. They default the "Post to Board" box being checked, with the other one unchecked. Based on the reasoning put forth by both you and Jakob Nielsen, the first box should be unchecked (requiring thousands of your users posting cumulatively thousands of replies every day to click that box with EVERY reply). Worse, with Jakob's logic, it should be unchecked and worded "Do not post to the board". That really makes more sense to you? Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From mantruc at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 18:55:17 2004 From: mantruc at gmail.com (Javier Velasco) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:55:17 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.1 vs 1.0 Message-ID: Hi All: Does anyone have a good resource to learn the difference between versions 1.0 and 1.1 of XHTML? What do you need to change in your pages in order to upgrade the version? tia javier "The secret to making a site that people will dig is involving them throughout the design process" Christina Wodtke, 2002 From astreight at msn.com Wed Oct 20 19:05:48 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:05:48 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes Message-ID: Make it easy for users? If it's just one check mark, how does this make it easy for users? The logic here seems to be: "We already pre-checked the box you very likely want to have checked, so now we saved you the trouble of checking one box." Pre-checking a box is, in my opinion, forcing an option on a user, even if it's a highly likely option. A pre-selected box should really just be a Submit button, not a check box. You know most users want to perform a task, you provide a button to activate this performance. Not a pre-selected box, with another non-pre-selected box next to it. And it is a very troublesome scenario where even checking one box has no effect on the pre-checked box. Bottom line: users sometimes get things they do not want. At the online forums and blogs I've frequented, after you write a comment, there's a button you click called Submit or Say It or whatever. Your comment is then posted after you click on Submit. They know that if you wrote a comment, you are nearly 100% likely to want to submit it, yet they don't auto-submit it for you, say if it sits there unedited for over 15 seconds or something. You still have to click on that Submit button, or Preview it first then Submit. I've not seen Preview pre-checked, even though most blogs probably prefer a person Preview first to check for typos and to cool down any rage that might be present. I have seen these pre-selected forms, usually many pre-checked boxes, that I have to unselect, and it's not making my life any easier at all. Generally, if I see a slew of pre-selected boxes, I figure they have poor marketing sense, lacking in customer friendliness, and possibly worse qualities, pushy to say the least, so I will bail out and move on to other business. Forms Philosophy is vital on the web, since here is where most interaction occurs. Again, there might be situations where pre-selection is a true convenience and benefit to users, but the post-selection display of previous user-selected options, like in a profile update, is still the only case I know of. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From julian at jrickards.ca Wed Oct 20 19:40:35 2004 From: julian at jrickards.ca (Julian Rickards) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:40:35 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.1 vs 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41770583.5060706@jrickards.ca> Hey there Javier, how are you? There are a few very simple differences between 1.0 and 1.1 including removing from around JavaScript in the and replacing it with The other issue that I am aware of is that XHTML must be delivered as application/xhtml+xml, not as text/html. Therefore, IE will choke on it and (from what I have heard) will display the code instead of a web page. There also is no such thing as XHTML 1.1 transitional, it is only "available" in strict form so you must remove all deprecated tags and attributes such as (obviously) and align="center" and anything that has been replaced in CSS. I know that this is incomplete but if you can create XHTML 1.0 Strict, then you are most of the way there but 1.1, with its requirement for the HTTP delivery method, is a hinderance to its widespread use. HTH, Jules Javier Velasco wrote: >Hi All: > >Does anyone have a good resource to learn the difference between >versions 1.0 and 1.1 of XHTML? > >What do you need to change in your pages in order to upgrade the version? > >tia >javier > > >"The secret to making a site that people will dig is involving them >throughout the design process" >Christina Wodtke, 2002 > > > From liorean at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 19:52:58 2004 From: liorean at gmail.com (liorean) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:52:58 +0200 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.1 vs 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:55:17 -0400, Javier Velasco wrote: > Does anyone have a good resource to learn the difference between versions 1.0 and 1.1 of XHTML? Well, it's not much, really. See > What do you need to change in your pages in order to upgrade the version? - Make sure they validate as XHTML1.1. (Requires roughly the same as XHTML1.0 Strict) - Make sure they are sent as 'application/xhtml+xml' or 'application/xml', NOT 'text/html'. -- David "liorean" Andersson From vlad.alexander at xstandard.com Wed Oct 20 20:04:50 2004 From: vlad.alexander at xstandard.com (Vlad Alexander (XStandard)) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:04:50 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.1 vs 1.0 Message-ID: Hi Javier, Hope this article clarifies things a bit for you: http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/120303-1.shtml Regards, -Vlad XStandard Development Team Standards-compliant XHTML (Strict / 1.1) WYSIWYG editor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javier Velasco" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.1 vs 1.0 > Hi All: > > Does anyone have a good resource to learn the difference between > versions 1.0 and 1.1 of XHTML? > > What do you need to change in your pages in order to upgrade the version? > > tia > javier > > > "The secret to making a site that people will dig is involving them > throughout the design process" > Christina Wodtke, 2002 > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From brainsquared at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 22:35:28 2004 From: brainsquared at gmail.com (Brent Morris) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:35:28 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting Message-ID: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> I have a friend that wants to set up a website with just their business card info on it for now. Can anyone recommend a really cheap, no bells and whistles host? I'm seriously thinking the "site" will be 100Kb tops. TIA -- Brent Morris From philip at turmel.org Wed Oct 20 22:39:13 2004 From: philip at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:39:13 -0400 Subject: [thelist] configuring sendmail for relaying mail form data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41772F61.1050702@turmel.org> John, Before getting too hung up in sendmail delivery configuration (Ugh!), you might want to check whether the user account for the web server process (or CGI if applicable) is authorized to use an arbitrary sender address. Your error message shows the sender as "www at domain.tld". So "www" is your web server user account? If not, or if domain.tld is not the configured sendmail local host, you need extra priviledges. A generic *nix user account can only send mail when "sender" is equal to their user account name @ the configured local host name. HTH. Phil Turmel ps. I use exim instead of sendmail simply because its WAY easier to configure/understand for small servers. So I can't help with actual configuration details.... John DeStefano wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to use a good-looking but poorly-supported PHP form mail script > (http://www.leveltendesign.com/L10Apps/Fm/) on a FreeBSD server to > process data submitted by a Web mail form. > > The installation test completed successfully, and I moved the PHP file > into my Web site. Now, when I click the submit button, I'm brought to > the 'success' page, but an email is never received. This was also the > case during the initial test, but I was brought to the default success > page. > > Despite the poor support, I don't think the script itself is the > problem. The mail server queue is holding these messages with the > following error: > > Deferred: 450 ..com>: Sender address rejected: > Domain not found > > The FreeBSD guide's Troubleshooting section points to the Sendmail FAQ > for more information. The Sendmail FAQ on this topic contains a cycle > of links, but I get the idea that I need to configure sendmail to > route messages via my ISP's SMTP gateway, and that I need to define a > "smart host". > > The most relevent FAQ entries I could find were: > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mail-trouble.html#Q22.5.4. > http://www.sendmail.org/faq/section3.html#3.22 > > So I added the following to /etc/mail/freebsd.mc: > FEATURE(`accept_unresolvable_domains')dnl > FEATURE(`accept_unqualified_senders')dnl > > I also created /etc/mail/relay-domains and inserted every possible > variation of domains I could think of. > > I then restarted sendmail ('cd /etc/mail && make restart') and tried > the form again, but mailq showed the same 450 error. > > I added the following to /etc/mail/freebsd.mc: > define('SMART_HOST', `smtp-server.rochester.rr.com')dnl > > After a restart, mailq gave the same error. > > Any sendmail gurus out there have thoughts on how to resolve this, or > what I'm doing wrong? > > Thanks. > ~John From techwriter at sound-by-design.com Wed Oct 20 23:49:57 2004 From: techwriter at sound-by-design.com (Allen Schaaf) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:49:57 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Network Security (WAS: Re: [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd?) In-Reply-To: <006c01c4b677$67f772d0$9600a8c0@corp.avanade.org> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c4b665$fb8e0fc0$0500a8c0@kjhome.local> <006c01c4b677$67f772d0$9600a8c0@corp.avanade.org> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041020205632.087c5730@mail.sound-by-design.com> At 12:35 AM 10/20/04 - Ken Schaefer wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Allen Schaaf" >Subject: Re: [thelist] [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November >2nd? > > > > /TIP -----> > > Be very careful about posting any exe files that might > > have been created by Windows NT, 2000, XP, or any > > executable file like screen savers, GIF animations, etc., > > to your web site. > > > > The reason is ADS - no, not advertising, but rather > > Alternate Data Streams. They work sort of like pre-OSX > > Mac file in that they have two forks. There is the visible > > one which is the cute greeting card or whatever and the > > other is quietly installing a back door or Trojan on the > > computer of the person who downloaded it. > > > > At the very least run all files through software > > like . > >a) I don't see the concern with placing .exe files onto your /own/ website. >Presumably, if you have the files you know they are safe. But is your source a trusted source? Do you know for sure that it was not compromised? Did you run a MD5 or SHA2 hash before and after to check that it had not been meddled with? >The question is whether it's safe for you to download files from someone >else's website. The question also is, do you want to protect the integrity of your site? The other question is, do you want it so common a problem that people are leery of visiting your site out of fear? >b) The article linked is incorrect in stating that most security software >is incapable of scanning ADS (whilst that may have been true when the >words are written, I've been assured by people in the AV industry that >this is no longer the case). Every major AV program is now capable of >scanning ADS in files as you access them. Keep your AV up-to-date. But, if it is not a virus, only an executable, will it be detected? According to my sources it is somewhat hit and miss. I've tested three AV softwares and not one got the Word macro and only one got one of the ADS executables. Granted this is not exhaustive, but I think it has the potential to be a bigger problem than we realize. Look at the potential for problems with Javascript - see www.computerbytesman.com - and yet most use it because the trust that most sites do not put malicious code on their sites but if people lose their trust all the effort you have put into those pretty pages with nice whiz bangs will be useless as default browser setting for scripting languages that execute on the client will become "off" as it is now on mine. There are many site I no longer even bother visiting because they depend on too much code that I do not have time to study. Do you think I'm being foolish? Perhaps, but then you have not seen an entire group of 15 people behind a good firewall suddenly start getting pop-up ads all day long. Every single machine had to be rebuilt from scratch as they could not find the cause. Almost a week's lost productivity. I'll give you another scenario that has happened at a large financial institution. A laptop was lost with a lot of financial records on it. It was recovered from the lost and found at the airport after a few hours. Big sighs of relief, until..., well someone very clever copied all the files to a new drive and added a trojan that was masked from the anti-virus scanner. The next time the laptop was connected to the corporate network, guess what? Well, they were lucky. An alert sys admin noticed something funny in the IDS logs and traced it back before all the private data was uploaded to somewhere on the net. Don't think it can be done? Then take the Certified Ethical Hacker class to get the certificate and get your pants scared right off you in no time flat. The two exploits I mentioned were only the very tinniest tip of the iceberg. Best to you and yours, Allen Schaaf Documentation Developer and Senior Technical Writer Certified Network Security Analyst and Intrusion Forensics Investigator - CEH, CHFI Papageno: "What should we say now?" Pamina: "The truth, the truth, ...even if it is a crime." From ken.schaefer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 01:54:23 2004 From: ken.schaefer at gmail.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:54:23 +1000 Subject: [thelist] Network Security (WAS: Re: [OT - For USA] Got any special plans for November 2nd?) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041020205632.087c5730@mail.sound-by-design.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019072943.0869f6a0@mail.sound-by-design.com> <20041019151359.64942.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> <000201c4b665$fb8e0fc0$0500a8c0@kjhome.local> <006c01c4b677$67f772d0$9600a8c0@corp.avanade.org> <6.1.2.0.2.20041020205632.087c5730@mail.sound-by-design.com> Message-ID: <11de06e20410202354379a18fe@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:49:57 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > > > Be very careful about posting any exe files that might > > > have been created by Windows NT, 2000, XP, or any > > > executable file like screen savers, GIF animations, etc., > > > to your web site. > > > > > > The reason is ADS - no, not advertising, but rather > > > Alternate Data Streams. > > > >a) I don't see the concern with placing .exe files onto your /own/ website. > >Presumably, if you have the files you know they are safe. > > But is your source a trusted source? Do you know for sure that it was not > compromised? Did you run a MD5 or SHA2 hash before and after to check that > it had not been meddled with? Before and after what? Before and after you placed them onto your website? If someone's tampering with files you've placed onto your own website I think you have bigger issues. If you're redistributing .exe files, then presumably you have some licence to do so, and you'd have some kind of trust relationship with the original vendor. If you're a software developer yourself and distributing your own .exe files, then presumably you take steps to ensure that your development environment isn't trojaned. On the other hand, if you found dodgy.exe on some www.freemp3warezp0rn.com site and stick it up on your own, then I think you have bigger issues than ADS :-) > >The question is whether it's safe for you to download files from someone > >else's website. > > The question also is, do you want to protect the integrity of your site? > The other question is, do you want it so common a problem that people are > leery of visiting your site out of fear? Hmmm...I've never seen anything in the security community about widespread problems with people redistributing .exe files that have somehow been trojaned with malicious code embedded in ADS. Please note that the issue here is your highlighting of ADS, as distinct from malicious executables themselves. > >b) The article linked is incorrect in stating that most security software > >is incapable of scanning ADS (whilst that may have been true when the > >words are written, I've been assured by people in the AV industry that > >this is no longer the case). Every major AV program is now capable of > >scanning ADS in files as you access them. Keep your AV up-to-date. > > But, if it is not a virus, only an executable, will it be detected? > According to my sources it is somewhat hit and miss. I've tested three AV > softwares and not one got the Word macro and only one got one of the ADS > executables. But what does the executable do? As mentioned, most (if not all) AV products will detect and scan ADS. If there is executable code in the ADS, and it appears to be a virus or trojan, or exhibits "virus like activity", then the AV scanner will catch it. If it's just executable code in general, then I don't think your AV will try to stop it running, in the same way that it doesn't stop you running word.exe or calc.exe or notepad.exe Personally, I'm not so sure about embedding a Word macro virus into ADS - how exactly will that be executed by Word? > Granted this is not exhaustive, but I think it has the potential to be a > bigger problem than we realize. I think I'm reasonably cognizant of security threats, risks, countermeasures, technologies, tools etc on the Windows platform. As I mentioned, I don't think ADS is some "smoking gun" or "elephant in the room" that the community is ignoring. > Look at the potential for problems with Javascript - see > www.computerbytesman.com - and yet most use it because the trust that most > sites do not put malicious code on their sites but if people lose their > trust all the effort you have put into those pretty pages with nice whiz > bangs will be useless as default browser setting for scripting languages > that execute on the client will become "off" as it is now on mine. There > are many site I no longer even bother visiting because they depend on too > much code that I do not have time to study. People are already leery of downloading straight executables. What's so special about ADS? Nothing as far as I can tell. > Do you think I'm being foolish? Perhaps, but then you have not seen an > entire group of 15 people behind a good firewall suddenly start getting > pop-up ads all day long. Every single machine had to be rebuilt from > scratch as they could not find the cause. Almost a week's lost productivity. You don't know what I have, and haven't seen. :-) Unless this firewall is some kind of Application layer firewall (like ISA Server), then it's pretty much useless for stopping people downloading malicious code and running it. You might as well have said that they had a good surge protector. Detecting malware that causes "popups" certainly can be done. If it can't in a particular case, then either the administrator doesn't have the requisite knowlegde or (if they do have the knowledge) doesn't have the requisite resources (time, money). > I'll give you another scenario that has happened at a large financial > institution. A laptop was lost with a lot of financial records on it. It > was recovered from the lost and found at the airport after a few > hours. Big sighs of relief, until..., well someone very clever copied all > the files to a new drive and added a trojan that was masked from the > anti-virus scanner. The next time the laptop was connected to the corporate > network, guess what? Well, they were lucky. An alert sys admin noticed > something funny in the IDS logs and traced it back before all the private > data was uploaded to somewhere on the net. I think we all realise this is an issue. Certainly any financial institution that has a laptop in the hands of unknown, and then wants to return it to a sensitive network would reimage the machine to a known good state before doing so. The company I work for is doing a lot of work on Microsoft's VPN quarantine technology, which is designed to allow the quarantine of machines from a sensitive network until they have been certified as "clean". If anyone's interested, we can be hired at exhorbi....sorry "good value" rates. :-) > Don't think it can be done? Then take the Certified Ethical Hacker class to > get the certificate and get your pants scared right off you in no time > flat. I don't mean to demean the certification you mention, but I doubt that I'd learn anything by preparing for such an exam. :-) I was hoping that previous posts on security related topics on this list might have conveyed what I thought was my understanding of security issues, but perhaps I have an inflated sense of what I actually know :-) Cheers Ken From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 02:11:28 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:11:28 -0700 Subject: [thelist] js/css show div based on onchange In-Reply-To: <21e4a12804102015214dc04d8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4176E102.9020401@hondaswap.com> <21e4a12804102015214dc04d8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102100111c03e721@mail.gmail.com> What about simplifying a little? Remember, if they have Javascript turned off, (a contentious issue, to be sure, but one you need to think about) then the page won't work. . . . Otherwise, if you MUST do it the other way :) read that excellent article. There are quick-n-nastier ways of doing it, if you're interested. if you want to keep your own code there, for starters, change document.dslarea to document.getElementById('dslarea'), (and do some object detection, too!) and change that loooong if (document.frmdefault.internet_type.value == to if (this.value == Let me know if you want more.. From evolt.list at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 03:12:49 2004 From: evolt.list at gmail.com (Web Designers) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:12:49 +0100 Subject: [thelist] ADMIN: Clarification about what's off-topic on thelist In-Reply-To: <41768745.9020107@userfrenzy.com> References: <41768745.9020107@userfrenzy.com> Message-ID: <90c6a81704102101122e4fabee@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:41:57 +0100, John Handelaar wrote: > More specifically, we're going to be watching like crazy to make > sure that, in particular, no threads AT ALL regarding a > forthcoming event on November 2nd in the United States are > permitted to get traction here. Oooh! Is that an Evolt get-together or something less important? ~;0) -- Richard Morris From apatheticgenius at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 03:45:28 2004 From: apatheticgenius at gmail.com (apathetic) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:45:28 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting In-Reply-To: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <228691b704102101451d8c3c50@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:35:28 -0400, Brent Morris wrote: > Can anyone recommend a really cheap, > no bells and whistles host? http://www.penguin-uk.com/services_pricing.htm These guys are fairly cheap (?9.99/year) and I've not had any trouble with them. Tim -- www.apatheticgenius.com www.hyperlinkage.com - Free online RSS reader From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Thu Oct 21 04:54:14 2004 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:54:14 +0200 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL wrapper Message-ID: <41778746.70402@kasimir-k.fi> Hello, I've made myself a wrapper to make (My)SQL queries from PHP. While I have no problems with it, I'd like to hear your opinions of it. Would it make sense to check/sanitize the $sql_query? Is there a way to find out if $sql_query is already slashed? Any other ideas/thoughts? cheers, .k ' . mysql_error() . ' 
' . $sql_query . '
'); } // usage examples // list of articles $articles = sql_query (" SELECT title, pub_date FROM articles "); // just one article (one row) $article = sql_query (" SELECT title, body, pub_date FROM articles WHERE art_id = '" . $id . "' ", 'a', '0'); // just pub_dates (one column) $pub_dates = sql_query (" SELECT pub_date FROM articles ", 'n', '*', '0'); // just one item $title = sql_query (" SELECT title FROM articles WHERE art_id = '" . $id . "' ", 'n', '0', '0'); ?> From richard.bennett at skynet.be Thu Oct 21 06:04:55 2004 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:04:55 +0200 Subject: [thelist] mysql optimising large table Message-ID: <200410211304.55881.richard.bennett@skynet.be> Hi, I have a table containing logfiles in mysql v4.0, myISAM. The table has about 8.5 million records. I'm using the my_huge.cnf file on mandrake10 Linux with 1 gig ram and 250gig HD space. Some Info: Space usage : Type Usage Data 3,063 MB Index 660,855 KB Total 3,708 MB Row Statistic : Statements Value Format dynamic Rows 8,781,134 Row length ? 365 Row size ? 443 Bytes Next Autoindex 8,781,135 Creation Oct 14, 2004 at 09:23 PM Last update Oct 20, 2004 at 11:57 AM Last check Oct 14, 2004 at 09:34 PM Indexes : Keyname Type Cardinality Field PRIMARY PRIMARY 8781134 id originalID UNIQUE 8781134 originalID databaseName INDEX 9 databaseName origID INDEX 8781134 origID destinationcode INDEX 8625 destinationcode finaldestination INDEX 2195283 finaldestination datetime INDEX 8781134 datetime Normally i'd like to be able to get statistics from the database in 1month chunks (about 1 million records) but if I do a: SELECT count( * ) FROM `table` WHERE datetime BETWEEN '2004-09-01 00:00:00' AND '2004-10-01 00:00:00' It will return the count: 1372668, but it takes 2 or 3 minutes to do this. If I add any other (indexed) criteria it becomes even slower. I have noticed if I just request 1 or 2 days' records, the result still comes fast, but once the count gets over 100000 or so, everything slows down. My own solution at the moment is to make temporary tables for each month, as things seem to stay fast with less than 2mil. records in a table. Does anyone have any advice on how to optimise this setup? Thanks, Richard. PS, some extra mysql info: (sorry for the long post) Server variables and settings Variable Global value back log 50 basedir / binlog cache size 32768 bulk insert buffer size 8388608 character set latin1 character sets latin1 big5 czech euc_kr gb2312 gbk latin1_de sjis tis620 ujis dec8 dos german1 hp8 koi8_ru latin2 swe7 usa7 cp1251 danish hebrew win1251 estonia hungarian koi8_ukr win1251ukr greek win1250 croat cp1257 latin5 concurrent insert ON connect timeout 5 convert character set datadir /var/lib/mysql/ default week format 0 delay key write ON delayed insert limit 100 delayed insert timeout 300 delayed queue size 1000 flush OFF flush time 0 ft boolean syntax + -><()~*:""&| ft min word len 4 ft max word len 254 ft max word len for sort 20 ft stopword file (built-in) have bdb NO have crypt YES have innodb YES have isam YES have raid NO have symlink YES have openssl NO have query cache YES init file innodb additional mem pool size 1048576 innodb buffer pool size 8388608 innodb data file path ibdata1:10M:autoextend innodb data home dir innodb file io threads 4 innodb force recovery 0 innodb thread concurrency 8 innodb flush log at trx commit 1 innodb fast shutdown ON innodb flush method innodb lock wait timeout 50 innodb log arch dir ./ innodb log archive OFF innodb log buffer size 1048576 innodb log file size 5242880 innodb log files in group 2 innodb log group home dir ./ innodb mirrored log groups 1 innodb max dirty pages pct 90 interactive timeout 28800 join buffer size 131072 key buffer size 402653184 language /usr/share/mysql/english/ large files support ON local infile ON locked in memory OFF log OFF log update OFF log bin ON log slave updates OFF log slow queries OFF log warnings OFF long query time 10 low priority updates OFF lower case table names 0 max allowed packet 1047552 max binlog cache size 4294967295 max binlog size 1073741824 max connections 100 max connect errors 10 max delayed threads 20 max heap table size 16777216 max join size 4294967295 max relay log size 0 max seeks for key 4294967295 max sort length 1024 max user connections 0 max tmp tables 32 max write lock count 4294967295 myisam max extra sort file size 268435456 myisam max sort file size 2147483647 myisam repair threads 1 myisam recover options OFF myisam sort buffer size 67108864 net buffer length 16384 net read timeout 30 net retry count 10 net write timeout 60 new OFF open files limit 1024 pid file /var/lib/mysql/server.pid log error port 3306 protocol version 10 query alloc block size 8192 query cache limit 1048576 query cache size 33554432 query cache type ON query prealloc size 8192 range alloc block size 2048 read buffer size 2093056 read only OFF read rnd buffer size 262144 rpl recovery rank 0 server id 1 slave net timeout 3600 skip external locking ON skip networking OFF skip show database OFF slow launch time 2 socket /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock sort buffer size 2097144 sql mode 0 table cache 457 table type MYISAM thread cache size 8 thread stack 196608 tx isolation REPEATABLE-READ timezone CEST tmp table size 33554432 tmpdir /home/rich/tmp/ transaction alloc block size 8192 transaction prealloc size 4096 version 4.0.18-log version comment Source distribution wait timeout 28800 From mr.sanders at designshift.com Thu Oct 21 07:47:12 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:47:12 -0300 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <20041020210315.8D14A280122@mail.w3internet.com> References: <20041020210315.8D14A280122@mail.w3internet.com> Message-ID: <4177AFD0.7030505@designshift.com> > Let's say you want to give the user the option to receive a copy of the > information upon receipt and history has shown that 99.9% of people want a > receipt. You have a couple options: Question: how do you determine that 99.9% of people want a receipt? Was it simply a matter of having a pre-checked checkbox which most people left checked "by simple oversight"? > 1. Give them an unchecked checkbox that is labeled "send me a receipt". > 99.9% of people want a receipt, but it seems likely that less than that will > check the box by simple oversight. I think you need to give your users the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume they want a receipt (i.e. by pre-checking the box), and don't assume that if you leave the box un-checked most people will overlook checking it even thought "they really /do/ want a receipt". > A person is updating their preferences. The last time they updated their > settings they specifically checked an option. When they look now, would it > not be nice to have the same option checked? IMHO, this is the only time it is appropriate to pre-check a checkbox for a user. -- Sarah Sweeney :: Web Developer & Programmer VOTE! :: http://www.declareyourself.com/ From joshua at waetech.com Thu Oct 21 07:57:18 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:57:18 -0400 Subject: [thelist] HELP... File conversion needed In-Reply-To: <4176D707.5010809@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: Hello listees, Once again thelist saved my back... Thank you again to all who responded in kind. This list proves once again that it's an incredible and invaluable resource. But, it's ultimately the people that make it all work. When adding s to a form, keep in mind the following rules (a few of a much larger list) and your code will be much more usable: 1. If you have a textual label for the input, wrap it in a LABEL tag and point the label to the input. To do this, assign the "for" attribute of the INPUT tag to the "id" of the INPUT tag. 2. Use "tabindex" for EVERY input. 3. Use "maxlength" to limit the number of characters that may be entered into text fields. 4. Specify type="text" even if it's not necessary because the browser defaults to it. 5. Use the "title" attribute to provide additional information about what to do with the field. Note, this may not work on all browsers. 6. If you assign an accesskey to provide a shortcut to a field, make sure that you indicate as such somewhere on the form. It is common to underline one of the characters in the field's label corresponding to the accesskey. 7. Do not rely on color changes for backgrounds and labels to indicate an error, requirements, etc. Individuals with colorblindness may miss these indicators. 8. Close the input with the trailing slash.. Eg (ok, so this isn't really an accessibility issue, but it's still a good idea) <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From mr.sanders at designshift.com Thu Oct 21 07:57:22 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:57:22 -0300 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4bfd1468041020161630f33c70@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bfd1468041020161630f33c70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4177B232.4020706@designshift.com> > Here's another example (based on The Motley Fool message boards): > When you're replying to a message, you have two options: Post the > message to the boards and Send-email to the author to whom you're > replying. You have to select at least one of them, but you can also > select both of them. The vast, vast, vast majority of the replies are > posted to the board and not e-mailed to the authoer of the post you're > replying to. They default the "Post to Board" box being checked, with > the other one unchecked. If I were designing a form like this, I think I would go with radio buttons: "post message", "email author", and "both" - and I would have the "post message" option as the default. There are always other (better?) options. Just my 2 cents. -- Sarah Sweeney :: Web Developer & Programmer Portfolio :: http://sarah.designshift.com Blog :: http://hardedge.ca Family :: http://geekjock.ca From ianfusa at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 08:10:55 2004 From: ianfusa at gmail.com (Ian Feavearyear) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:10:55 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Re: js/css show div based on onchange In-Reply-To: <-1590614790392196838@unknownmsgid> References: <-1590614790392196838@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: This solves the problem Untitled
Current Home Internet Type
From robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com Thu Oct 21 08:17:51 2004 From: robert at pennyonthesidewalk.com (Robert Gormley) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:17:51 +1000 Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CE9D@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: Sawmill, the log analyser, offers in its docs a Javascript 'solution', which requests a non-existant image, with http get parameters attached, aka 'resolution.gif?h=1280&w=800&d=32' You can then parse your log files for the 404 - of course, if you use Sawmill, it does this for you. Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- > bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith > Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 3:38 AM > To: Thelist (E-mail) > Subject: [thelist] Poll my audience's Resolution? > > Is there any way to poll and record my audiences screen resolution? > > Muchos Gracias amigos, > > Rob Smith > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 08:26:06 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4177AFD0.7030505@designshift.com> Message-ID: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sarah Sweeney wrote: > > Let's say you want to give the user the option to receive a copy > of the > > information upon receipt and history has shown that 99.9% of > people want a > > receipt. You have a couple options: > > Question: how do you determine that 99.9% of people want a receipt? > Was > it simply a matter of having a pre-checked checkbox which most > people > left checked "by simple oversight"? Oh come on, surely this isn't that difficult a concept to grasp. It's called /data/. Through your user tracking (whether it be order data, site usage, or something else --you DO have user tracking, right?) You see that 99% of your users did indeed check that checkbox, which you initially left un-preselected for them. So you do them a favor, give them a warm fuzzy, help their day out, make their clicking-everything-in-sight experience a little smoother. You check the box for them. If doing this really keeps you awake at night, maybe it's time to go do something else. You don't design for the 1%. I'm sorry, you just don't. From John.Brooking at sappi.com Thu Oct 21 08:24:24 2004 From: John.Brooking at sappi.com (John.Brooking at sappi.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:24:24 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes Message-ID: <046D7511B5DBFC41B4CF3E696EB2CC200135AB32@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> > You're assuming that by pre-checking a box you're "pushing" > something, when you may just be trying to make it easier for > your users. To take this a bit further: I think you're missing something if you are only thinking about *checking* the checkboxes as making the decision for the user. It is, but remember, so is leaving it unchecked! A (standard) checkbox has only two states. Leaving a box unchecked is simply pre-selecting the "no" option. So you're really just deciding whether the majority of your users will want to answer "yes" or "no". If you really want your form to be neutral, a yes/no answer would have to be presented as the question followed by "Yes" and "No" radio buttons, with neither one pre-selected, but with verification on submission that one of them is. But I would not advocate this, as it complicates the form and forces 100% of your users to click something. But short of this, I don't think you can claim that you're not leading your users one way or the other. So I lean toward considering whatever will be the most convenient for the majority of your users, while also following the guideline about asking questions in the positive (Please send me...) rather than the negative (Do not send me...) form. If those two considerations lead to pre-selecting checkboxes, I have no problem with that. But note that the first consideration means really pre-selecting the one that most users *will* probably choose, as opposed to the one you would *prefer* that they choose (which is where the temptation comes in...). - John -- This message may contain information which is private, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in the message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender thereof and destroy / delete the message. Neither the sender nor Sappi Limited (including its subsidiaries and associated companies) shall incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly from accessing any of the attached files which may contain a virus or the like. From joshua at waetech.com Thu Oct 21 08:38:22 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:38:22 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4177AFD0.7030505@designshift.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah Sweeney > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:47 AM > > > Let's say you want to give the user the option to receive a copy of > > the information upon receipt and history has shown that 99.9% of > > people want a receipt. You have a couple options: > > Question: how do you determine that 99.9% of people want a > receipt? Was it simply a matter of having a pre-checked > checkbox which most people left checked "by simple oversight"? Sarah, If you know your users, then you will know the statistics. If you don't have historical records from which to pull, solicit feedback on how to make the experience "better". Web developers, in general, tend to isolate themselves from the fact that the USERS are the ones USING the system. Users typically know how to *use* the system better than we, as developers, do. They are in it all the time, they know the bugs, they live with the nuances. Users will misuse and abuse a system without a second thought if it gets the job done. I'm always surprised by their ingenuity. I'm always surprised when they use a system in a way I, as the developer, hadn't envisioned. Users will grumble under their breath for 6 months about how it would be much quicker if only the system would do this or that. I'm always surprised when they tell me they've suffered for 6 months because the tab ordering on fields was out of whack--or that they have to save a new record, then go back and update it every time because the "add new" routine failed to store one particular data item to the database. A two minute fix for me, but they just accept it as "how it works". Once you ask them, or notice a trend in the logs that is odd (why did they always save and then go back and update immediately after), then the system improves. Historical trends will tell you if 99.9% of users do something a certain way. Users will gladly tell you if it'd be better/quicker to precheck a field for them. It's just a matter of looking and asking. If we build and walk away... <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From brian at hondaswap.com Thu Oct 21 08:45:51 2004 From: brian at hondaswap.com (brian cummiskey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:45:51 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Re: js/css show div based on onchange [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: <-1590614790392196838@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4177BD8F.8010304@hondaswap.com> Ian Feavearyear wrote: > This solves the problem yes, indeed it does! Thanks for the help everyone. issue resolved. From evoltlist at delime.com Thu Oct 21 08:49:19 2004 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting In-Reply-To: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20041021094902.01c47d28@mx.delime.com> Message from Brent Morris (10/20/2004 11:35 PM) >I have a friend that wants to set up a website with just their >business card info on it for now. Can anyone recommend a really cheap, >no bells and whistles host? I'm seriously thinking the "site" will be >100Kb tops. I'd probably take a look at pair.net regards. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From mr.sanders at designshift.com Thu Oct 21 09:04:43 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:04:43 -0300 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> >>Question: how do you determine that 99.9% of people want a receipt? >>Was >>it simply a matter of having a pre-checked checkbox which most >>people >>left checked "by simple oversight"? > > Oh come on, surely this isn't that difficult a concept to grasp. It's > called /data/. Through your user tracking (whether it be order data, > site usage, or something else --you DO have user tracking, right?) > You see that 99% of your users did indeed check that checkbox, which > you initially left un-preselected for them. So you do them a favor, > give them a warm fuzzy, help their day out, make their > clicking-everything-in-sight experience a little smoother. You check > the box for them. If doing this really keeps you awake at night, > maybe it's time to go do something else. > > You don't design for the 1%. I'm sorry, you just don't. You just made my point for me. If 99.9% of users /actively/ checked the box, and that's how you know most of them want it checked, then why are you (or should I say Joshua Olson, who made this argument) worried about people not checking it "by simple oversight"? Maybe the vast majority of people do want a receipt (to continue with this example), but if the 0.01% of people who /don't/ want it end up getting it because you presumed to check the box for them, they are probably going to be pretty darn ticked about it. I'd rather ask 99.9% of users to check a box that face the annoyance/anger of the 0.01% of users who had the box checked for them. -- Sarah Sweeney :: Web Developer & Programmer VOTE! :: http://www.declareyourself.com/ From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Thu Oct 21 09:27:04 2004 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:27:04 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting In-Reply-To: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000101c4b77a$0bb39c70$0100a8c0@ed> DigitalSpace, U$36/year, LAMP, live tech support 9-5, M-F, California time. I've used them for several sites, with no complaints. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll http://www.ComSimplicity.com (310) 838-4330 PO Box 654, Culver City, CA 90232 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From joshua at waetech.com Thu Oct 21 09:29:08 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:29:08 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <046D7511B5DBFC41B4CF3E696EB2CC200135AB32@cdfnexc7.NA.Sappi.com> Message-ID: > From: John.Brooking at sappi.com > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:24 AM > > > You're assuming that by pre-checking a box you're "pushing" > > something, when you may just be trying to make it easier for your > > users. > > To take this a bit further: I think you're missing something > if you are only thinking about *checking* the checkboxes as > making the decision for the user. It is, but remember, so is > leaving it unchecked! Bit time +1 on this. > So I lean toward considering whatever will be the most > convenient for the majority of your users. Er, dang it, I should've save the "big time +1" for this. I guess this is a +2, then. I just realized my last post was not exactly on topic.. So: Change out noisier components in your computer with quieter ones (at a premium, naturally) and you will thank yourself for it later. A decent CPU fan will run about 35 USD, but cut your computer volume more than any other single component. <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From astreight at msn.com Thu Oct 21 09:40:01 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:40:01 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes Message-ID: While I think this question is exhausted, I had to comment on the well intended but erroneous statement that "leaving a box unchecked is making a decision for the user as much as pre-checking it is." Now come on. You can't be serious. Or does it depend on what the meaning of "is" is? Leaving boxes unchecked is not making a decision for users, it's putting that decision into their hands. Likewise the statement: "leaving a box unchecked is pre-selecting the NO option." No way. This is the whole point: Leaving the boxes unchecked is precisely not pre-selecting anything for the user. If this is not clearly understood, I give up. It's like the term "pre-marital sex." If you never plan to get married, it's not "pre-marital", it's "non-marital." Giving the user choices is not to be described as "pre-selecting" the NO option. It's giving the power to select or not select to the user. I hope we don't have to discuss mousetraps and why it's wrong to disable the browser Back button now. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 09:41:03 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:41:03 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Re: js/css show div based on onchange In-Reply-To: References: <-1590614790392196838@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102107414b381620@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, but it breaks for no javascript. Also, tables are passe! Yes, its a cheeky response, but here goes. Changes: - Show the DSL router box by default. (and move the style up to the head -- separation of content from presentation!) - hide the router DIV with some load-time javascript - also, the display=""' reverts it to the default --- which is display:none here - modernize structure a little Also, maybe turn router into a checkbox ("Uses a router") or radio options? Good luck Untitled //this is the script that hides and shows from the pulldown menu function show(which){ m=document.getElementById("dns2"); trig=m.getElementsByTagName("div").item(which).style.display; if (trig=="block") trig="none"; else if (trig=="" || trig=="none") trig="block"; m.getElementsByTagName("div").item(which).style.display=trig; }
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From peter at easylistbox.com Thu Oct 21 12:10:56 2004 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:10:56 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes Message-ID: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> ???Call me a dunce, but with options like those, I have to wonder if *you're* doing some trolling here.? Really, now... why would you have a checkbox for any of those?? Wouldn't you just say "plus you get frequent flier miles and free shipping!" in your introduction? ???And the first one is so ridiculous that I shouldn't even have to comment on it.? That kind of option is about the same as "click here to unsubscribe"; I wouldn't touch that business with a ten-foot cat5 cable. ???The point?in all this is that, according to some trustworthy usability standards, you should use checkboxes to give the option of doing things outside the normal flow or process (free shipping?? Come on.), and that their "off" state indicates that no action will be taken.? Steven may not have expressed that in the most ideal way, but it seems pretty obvious even so. ? Next up:? why hidden frames are evi-- ah, never mind. From: Greg Holmes Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:01 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes Steven Streight wrote: >Likewise the statement: "leaving a box unchecked >is pre-selecting the NO option." > >No way. This is the whole point: Leaving the boxes >unchecked is precisely not pre-selecting anything >for the user. You *really* don't get this? Or are you trolling? Checkbox. Two states. Whether the default is checked or unchecked, there *is* a default. Unchecked is a state. The *only* way to have no default would be to use radio buttons (with no default selection, obviously), and validate that a choice was made. Or a dropdown with "Please choose" as the default choice, together with validation to make sure that the user actually choose something. And, just for fun ... [ ] Warn me before you do something evil [ ] Add to my frequent flyer miles [ ] Give me free shipping, if I am eligible Gee, good thing the developer didn't default these to checked! Greg Holmes From thelist at si-designs.co.uk Thu Oct 21 12:32:25 2004 From: thelist at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:32:25 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Alert client of transfer to secure server Message-ID: <4177F2A9.1070903@si-designs.co.uk> Hi, I would like to alert my clients that they are being transfered to a secure server once they have pressed a submit button. Nothing too flashy just a simple screen with a div saying "please wait while we transfer you to a secure server" that gets displayed for a few seconds before they carry on to the page on the secure server. I was thinking about DHTML. Hiding the main content displaying a new centered div and using a timeout to delay the submit process. Does anyone have a better idea or any resources on how to accomplish this? Simon From greg.holmes at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 12:37:02 2004 From: greg.holmes at gmail.com (Greg Holmes) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:37:02 -0400 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> References: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> Message-ID: <6d5eee8041021103748f62a11@mail.gmail.com> Peter Brunone wrote: >Call me a dunce, but with options like those, I have to >wonder if *you're* doing some trolling here. Really, now... >why would you have a checkbox for any of those? >Wouldn't you just say "plus you get frequent flier miles >and free shipping!" in your introduction? Hey, I said the examples were just for fun. >Steven may not have expressed that in the most ideal >way, but it seems pretty obvious even so. The fact remains, checkboxes *always* have a default state, whether you specify the default or not. You are choosing a default to present to the user, even if you don't think about it. I wasn't the one making the blanket assertion about what the default should be. Greg Holmes From brian.delaney at mccmh.net Thu Oct 21 12:37:25 2004 From: brian.delaney at mccmh.net (Brian Delaney) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:37:25 -0400 Subject: [thelist] roaming profile not loading Message-ID: <4177F3D5.9050408@mccmh.net> WE are just all of a sudden seeing that users are getting a local profile and not their profile from our file server. Any ideas??? * * * This message, including any attachments, is intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or priveleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this communication(s) is expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy any and all copies of the original message. From brian.delaney at mccmh.net Thu Oct 21 12:41:37 2004 From: brian.delaney at mccmh.net (Brian Delaney) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:41:37 -0400 Subject: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase your registry size Message-ID: <4177F4D1.2090800@mccmh.net> Anybody get this? And fix it? * * * This message, including any attachments, is intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or priveleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this communication(s) is expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy any and all copies of the original message. From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 12:49:48 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:49:48 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <6d5eee8041021103748f62a11@mail.gmail.com> References: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> <6d5eee8041021103748f62a11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f041021104934d3f24@mail.gmail.com> When creating checkboxes on a form that could, concievably, have a default checked state, rely on common sense and basic usability -- don't ask anyone on the internet for their opinion because you'll never hear the end of it :) On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:37:02 -0400, Greg Holmes wrote: > Peter Brunone wrote: > >Call me a dunce, but with options like those, I have to > >wonder if *you're* doing some trolling here. Really, now... > >why would you have a checkbox for any of those? > >Wouldn't you just say "plus you get frequent flier miles > >and free shipping!" in your introduction? > > Hey, I said the examples were just for fun. > > >Steven may not have expressed that in the most ideal > >way, but it seems pretty obvious even so. > > The fact remains, checkboxes *always* have a default > state, whether you specify the default or not. You > are choosing a default to present to the user, even if > you don't think about it. I wasn't the one making the > blanket assertion about what the default should be. > > > > Greg Holmes > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From rob.smith at THERMON.com Thu Oct 21 12:55:27 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:55:27 -0500 Subject: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase y our registry size Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEB3@smtmb.tmc.local> > This message, including any attachments... I was hoping for a rule in the list guidelines that would support my post, but #8 is the closest that I can amplify 8. Don't post copyrighted material. If you think an article would be helpful to others on the list, provide a link. You can't add any attachments to the list. As this is a web developer forum, it is reasonable to assume you have access to at least one web page. Post your screen shot there and send us a link to view it. Cheers, Rob From evolt at kasimir-k.fi Thu Oct 21 13:05:59 2004 From: evolt at kasimir-k.fi (Kasimir K) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:05:59 +0200 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> References: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> Message-ID: <4177FA87.9080504@kasimir-k.fi> Hello, bringing in my 2c... First of all, it seemed that there was a sense of "must/must not" air, so I had a look at the standards, and found nothing there relating to this - so it's not about a standard but a good practice. And indeed this discussion has brought me many new ideas on forms, their usability and my practices. Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com) wrote on 2004-10-21 19:10: > The point in all this is that, according to some trustworthy > usability standards, you should use checkboxes to give the option > of doing things outside the normal flow or process ... > and that their "off" state indicates that no action will be taken. This makes perfect sense to me. However, this brings one problem: it does not always go together with the use of positive wording. If the normal process includes a certain action, then we'd have to use negative wording: "don't do the normal action". So my question here is which one of the following examples is better usability wise: [x] do the default thing [ ] don't do the default thing .kasimir From astreight at msn.com Thu Oct 21 13:11:59 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:11:59 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes Message-ID: "Unchecked is a state." A state in union with freedom of choice. It's not my fault it could be default of the web builder. Unchecked is a state, but not a choice imposed upon the user. I sure hope we can rid the web of the "pre-selection" syndrome where site owners try to trick users into granting them permission to do things the users don't really want. A big concern is the the actual user experience be acknowledged: users are typically in a hurry. Especially when they've got a deadline and they need some information quickly and it's late at night and they're dead tired. Very common, this noxious "pre-selection", at online publication sites. They impede your information foraging with the requirement to Register, but it's often free. So you comply. Then, after giving them personal information they can use to build user profiles and transaction profiles, they subject you to an incredible display of "newsletters" they hope you'll subscribe to, plus options to receive "offers" from sponsors or affiliates or advertisers. If I have to "uncheck" a lot of check boxes, which is par for the course, I bail out. And I'm irritated that I wasted so much time at the site. And how about those "pre-selected" boxes that remain selected even when you check what you consider the opposite, or the alternative? Who would want both HTML and Plain Text newsletters? Yet this happens often. HTML is pre-selected, but when you select Plain Text, the HTML is also still selected. Pre-selection is probably not something web designers invented or are proud of implementing. It's the marketing people, I suspect, since I am one, who foist this on the web design staff and don't want any guff from them about it. I've just given you one usability analyst's opinion. I appreciate opposing views more than agreement. So thanks for entering the debate, which I consider rather important. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From astreight at msn.com Thu Oct 21 13:24:56 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:24:56 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet message in art removes the art? Message-ID: Here's a weird item for you: Why would the use of text, say "Action Forbidden" and "Not Found" messages in uploaded computer art, seem to be causing the art to disappear from the site to which it is uploaded? I mean, the Hello/Picasa uploader seems to be working normally. I get the message that the upload, from my JASC Paint Shop Pro file, JPEG optimized for web display, was successful. The art appears, then when I got into the site to edit, add title, it's not listed, like it never was uploaded. Spooky. No other art uploads have behaved in this manner. The two in question contain error messages or warnings, but not in HTML or code, just in plain text. Here is the full text of the "Not Found" art work, which had abstract graphic designs, sort of a joke art specimen: Not Found. The requested URL [forward slash, URL] was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. You will be notified soon of fines and imprisonment. Apache /1.3.31 Server at en.mtb.qw Port 196 The other artwork was just: Action Forbidden. Please step away from your computer and wait until the authorities arrive. I thought these art specimens would be funny. It seems like my computer has no sense of humor, or the blog site can't laugh, or .... ??? Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 13:28:40 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4177FA87.9080504@kasimir-k.fi> Message-ID: <20041021182840.62295.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Agreeing that this horse is more than dead... > > So my question here is which one of the following examples is > better > usability wise: > [x] do the default thing > [ ] don't do the default thing The latter. Unless, as discussed, your statistics show that most of your users (significant enough to justify the change), check the "don't do the default thing", when you may want to change it to: [x] don't do the default thing Which begs the question, shouldn't you change the default action, and then reverse the checkbox's affect (and its wording)? I'd say yes. Can we instead talk about programming server-side code exclusively in ASP.NET vs writing HTML? Anyone? Bueller? From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 13:34:54 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041021183454.62725.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> > I sure hope we can rid the web of the "pre-selection" syndrome > where site > owners try to trick users into granting them permission to do > things the > users don't really want. I think you've taken this particular facet of using checkboxes, along with > > If I have to "uncheck" a lot of check boxes, which is par for the > course, I > bail out. And I'm irritated that I wasted so much time at the site. and spread it to a holistic opinion of all checkboxes, everywhere. The furor that bubbled up in rebuttal was to point out that the above scenario (and reaction) is not /always/ the case. Das all, no big whoop :) (yeah, I kicked it again, I'm sorry) From greg.holmes at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 13:38:56 2004 From: greg.holmes at gmail.com (Greg Holmes) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:38:56 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Re: checked vs. unchecked boxes Message-ID: <6d5eee8041021113863ce6737@mail.gmail.com> Steven Streight wrote: >I sure hope we can rid the web of the "pre-selection" >syndrome where site owners try to trick users into >granting them permission to do things the users don't >really want. I don't think that anybody was advocating this ;) I certainly wasn't. >And how about those "pre-selected" boxes that remain >selected even when you check what you consider the >opposite, or the alternative? Who would want both >HTML and Plain Text newsletters? Yet this happens >often. HTML is pre-selected, but when you select >Plain Text, the HTML is also still selected. These examples, while noxious, aren't the only uses for checkboxes. How about this, on an ASP.net site? Load the example in [X] CSharp [ ] VB [ ] Some other language theoretically supported that nobody actually uses where multiple versions can be loaded at once. Judging from code samples I usually find, I wouldn't be surprised if CSharp were considered the obvious default, and would be pre-checked in this example, though the option would remain for benighted folks like me to see VB. There's no evil intent here; just a default selection that helps most folks. Are you suggesting that it would be better to have this? [ ] Don't load CSharp [ ] Load VB [ ] Load some other language theoretically supported that nobody actually uses Or just that they all be unselected, and the user be forced to choose? Greg Holmes From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 13:45:23 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:45:23 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet message in art removes the art? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102111454b673fa6@mail.gmail.com> Is this something built into Picasa? Perhaps to stop people uploading offensive text rendered as graphics? From dsbrady at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 14:19:23 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:19:23 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4bfd1468041021121916054e49@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:05:48 -0500, ANDREA STREIGHT wrote: > Make it easy for users? If it's just one check mark, how does this make it > easy for users? Because it saves them a click. You seem to be advocating not pre-checking the box in order to make it easier on the vast minority who would want to uncheck it, thereby forcing the VAST majority to check the box every time. > Pre-checking a box is, in my opinion, forcing an option on a user, even if > it's a highly likely option. I have yet to see how it's "forcing" an option on a user. You seem to be saying that checking the box somehow makes it impossible to uncheck. That would be a radio button. > A pre-selected box should really just be a Submit button, not a check box. > You know most users want to perform a task, you provide a button to activate > this performance. Not a pre-selected box, with another non-pre-selected box > next to it. So, in this case, you're going to give them the following buttons to choose from: 1) Post Reply to Board 2) Send Reply to Author Only 3) Post Reply and Send Reply 4) Preview Reply ? You actually think that's more "usable" than 2 clearly marked checkboxes and the 2 submit buttons (Preview or Post are your two submit options)? That's what I'm getting from your response. > And it is a very troublesome scenario where even checking one box has no > effect on the pre-checked box. Bottom line: users sometimes get things they > do not want. Yes, that happens. But it happens a very small percentage of the time. And, there's nothing stopping that from happening with the box unchecked. ("Oops, I checked the wrong box") > You still have to click on that Submit button, or Preview it first then > Submit. I've not seen Preview pre-checked, even though most blogs probably > prefer a person Preview first to check for typos and to cool down any rage > that might be present. In this case, there are two buttons, one to post and one to preview. The 2 checkboxes don't affect either choice differently. > I have seen these pre-selected forms, usually many pre-checked boxes, that I > have to unselect, and it's not making my life any easier at all. Generally, > if I see a slew of pre-selected boxes, I figure they have poor marketing > sense, lacking in customer friendliness, and possibly worse qualities, pushy > to say the least, so I will bail out and move on to other business. Yes, that's a problem. But you're generalizing to EVERY situation to then say that prechecked checkboxes are an "abomination". There are many cases when prechecked boxes are bad, but there are some where it's not. Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From dsbrady at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 14:23:35 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:23:35 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked boxes or unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4177B232.4020706@designshift.com> References: <4bfd1468041020161630f33c70@mail.gmail.com> <4177B232.4020706@designshift.com> Message-ID: <4bfd14680410211223247ac888@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:57:22 -0300, Sarah Sweeney wrote: > If I were designing a form like this, I think I would go with radio > buttons: "post message", "email author", and "both" - and I would have > the "post message" option as the default. There are always other > (better?) options. Is that really any better than a prechecked checkbox? In this example, you're still "forcing an option" [to use other people's terms] on the user. You're still presenting them with 3 options (Post, E-mail, or Both) and pre-choosing the "Post" option for them. I'd say that it is an option (and it's a good option). But, I don't see how it's necessarily intrinsically better than the way they do it. (It's possible they used the format they did to save a little screen real estate) Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From dsbrady at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 14:27:20 2004 From: dsbrady at gmail.com (Scott Brady) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:27:20 -0600 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> References: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> Message-ID: <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:04:43 -0300, Sarah Sweeney wrote: > darn ticked about it. I'd rather ask 99.9% of users to check a box that > face the annoyance/anger of the 0.01% of users who had the box checked > for them. So, you'd rather risk ticking off the 99.9% of your users who get tired of always having to check that box? Ok. Scott -- ----------------------------------------- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 14:56:47 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:56:47 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f041021125614da9632@mail.gmail.com> Its the 0.01 that write the angry letters to those higher-up. From dan at canopyroad.com Thu Oct 21 15:00:54 2004 From: dan at canopyroad.com (Dan Leonard) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [thelist] First job developing site for real estate agent Message-ID: <12207.207.156.0.59.1098388854.squirrel@207.156.0.59> Hi all, I'm thinking of taking on a job developing a Web site for a local real estate agent. For those of you who have already done something like this, where did you go to find information about MLS database integration? I tried Googling, but only came up with links to companies that design Web sites specifically for realtors. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan From lists at neptunewebworks.com Thu Oct 21 15:15:20 2004 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:15:20 -0700 Subject: [thelist] First job developing site for real estate agent In-Reply-To: <12207.207.156.0.59.1098388854.squirrel@207.156.0.59> References: <12207.207.156.0.59.1098388854.squirrel@207.156.0.59> Message-ID: <417818D8.7010202@neptunewebworks.com> Dan Leonard wrote: >I'm thinking of taking on a job developing a Web site for a local real >estate agent. For those of you who have already done something like this, >where did you go to find information about MLS database integration? I >tried Googling, but only came up with links to companies that design Web >sites specifically for realtors. > > Hi Dan, Doesn't exactly answer your question, but you might be interested in Open-Realty - an open source CMS for realtor sites. I imagine the support forum there would be a good place to ask for general pointers as well... http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-realty/ -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp Dynamic Websites and E-Commerce NeptuneWebworks.com voice: 541-302-1438 fax: 208-730-6504 From thelist at summit7solutions.com Thu Oct 21 15:47:27 2004 From: thelist at summit7solutions.com (Jeff Wilhelm) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:47:27 -0400 Subject: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase your registry size In-Reply-To: <4177F4D1.2090800@mccmh.net> Message-ID: Message from at Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:42 PM: > Anybody get this? And fix it? Yeah, which OS? From rob.smith at THERMON.com Thu Oct 21 16:12:55 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:12:55 -0500 Subject: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase y our registry size Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEBF@smtmb.tmc.local> > Anybody get this? And fix it? Here's an article on it: PSS ID Number: 124594 Article Last Modified on 8/29/2003 The information in this article applies to: Microsoft Windows 2000 Server Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 3.5 Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 3.51 Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0 Microsoft Windows NT Server 3.5 Microsoft Windows NT Server 3.51 Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 This article was previously published under Q124594 SUMMARY This article describes Registry Size Limit (RSL) and tells how to configure it. MORE INFORMATION WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. By default, RSL is 25 percent of the size of paged pool. Setting up the size of paged pool (see PagedPoolSize value of the Registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management) also affects the size of RSL. You can also manually set the RSL: Run the Registry Editor (REGEDT32.EXE). Locate the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control. Modify the value RegistrySizeLimit (create it first it if it does not already exist) to reflect the desired size, in terms of bytes. NOTE: RegistrySizeLimit must have a type of REG_DWORD, and a data length of 4 bytes, or it is ignored. If you set the value RegistrySizeLimit to less than 4 megabytes (MB), it is forced up to 4 MB. If you set it to greater than about 80 percent of the size of paged pool, it is set down to 80 percent of the size of paged pool (it is assumed that paged pool is always more than 5 MB). If you set it to 0xffffffff the maximum size allowable (or 80 percent of paged pool, up to 102 MB) is set. Shut down and restart Windows NT for changes in RSL to take effect. Note A system restart is required after the RSL has been increased either through the graphical user interface (GUI) or the registry, because this change does not happen dynamically. If you do not restart the system, you may experience the following event: Event Type: Error Event Source: Userenv Event Category: None Event ID: 1000 Date: date Time: time User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM Computer: name Description: RegLoadKey failed. Return value Insufficient system resources exist to complete the requested service for C:\Documents and Settings\ntuser.dat. In Windows NT 4.0, and Windows NT 4.0, Terminal Server Edition, the maximum paged pool size is 192 MB, so RSL can be a maximum of 153.6 MB. For additional information, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base: 142719 NT Reports Out of Resources Error When Memory is Available In Windows 2000, the maximum paged pool size is approximately 370-400 MB, when you do not use the /3gb command-line switch (this makes the RSL greater than 296 MB). If you use the /3gb switch, these values remain unchanged from Windows NT 4.0. Additional Notes on RSL RSL sets a maximum, not an allocation (unlike some other such limits in the system). Setting a large RSL will NOT cause the system to use that much space unless it is actually needed by the Registry. It also does NOT guarantee that that much space will be available for use in the Registry. In Windows NT version 3.1, paged pool defaults to 32 MB, so the default RSL is 8 MB (enough to support approximately 5000 user accounts). In Windows NT 3.5, paged pool can be set to a maximum of 128 MB, so RSL can be no larger than about 102 MB (enough to support approximately 80,000 users; however, other system limitations might keep this number of users considerably lower). RSL includes space in the hives themselves, as well as some of the Registry's runtime structures. Other runtime structures are either billed against standard quota, or are protected by size limits and serialization. To ensure that you can always at least boot and edit the Registry if you set RSL incorrectly, quota checking is not turned on until after the first successful loading of a hive (that is, loading a user profile). For all but a few domain controllers, RSL never needs to be changed. The limitations imposed by RSL are approximate. For more information on the Registry size limit, search on the keyword "RegistrySizeLimit" in the Windows NT Registry Entries Help file found in the Windows NT version 3.5 Resource Kit, or query on the following keyword in the Microsoft Knowledge Base: RSL Additional query words: prodnt Keywords: KB124594 Technology: kbwin2000AdvServ kbwin2000AdvServSearch kbwin2000DataServ kbwin2000DataServSearch kbwin2000Pro kbwin2000ProSearch kbwin2000Search kbwin2000Serv kbwin2000ServSearch kbWinAdvServSearch kbWinDataServSearch kbWinNT350search kbWinNT351search kbWinNT400search kbWinNTS350 kbWinNTS350search kbWinNTS351 kbWinNTS351search kbWinNTS400 kbWinNTS400search kbWinNTsearch kbWinNTSsearch kbWinNTW350 kbWinNTW350search kbWinNTW351 kbWinNTW351search kbWinNTW400 kbWinNTW400search kbWinNTWsearch Send feedback to Microsoft ? 2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Rob From tserbinski at washsq.com Thu Oct 21 15:54:52 2004 From: tserbinski at washsq.com (Theodore Serbinski) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:54:52 -0400 Subject: [thelist] best architecture: large static site with tons of word docs? Message-ID: Ok guys, I need some help. I'm in the process of completely redoing Ocean.US and it's a huge mess (if not already apparent). I'm scrapping everything, the frontend/backend/architecture, nothing is setup in a logical manner. I'm moving the entire system to an Apache/PHP/MySQL backend. But here's where I need help, how do I organize this site which is a bunch (roughly 80-200) static files with an equal amount of Word and PDF documents but at the same time allow them to update the site, like change text, or upload a file and link to it, basic maintenance stuff? Idea 1: Create a folder hiearchy of all content files, with simple XHTML+CSS formating, based on navigation. Create a simliar hiearchy for document files. Then have a master PHP file grab the correct file based on MOD_REWRITE and load it up and apply a header/footer/menu. For maintenance, allow them to use Macromedia Contribute or other WYSIWG editor to make changes in files, like deleting/adding text and adding links and allow them to FTP documents in for linking. Idea 2: Use a CMS, such as Wordpress. Create entire site with Wordpress with all data in a database and allow them to login into the site and through their browser navigate to the page they want to edit and click "edit this" to edit the page. FTP files in and link them in this way. Any other ideas? I haven't really built a site of this size and structure before and would like to approach this in the best possible way for maintenance on their part and ease on my part. XHTML1.0 Strict is a must so that will help considerably in seperating content/design, all I need is a solid architecture to back me up. Thanks! ted From astreight at msn.com Thu Oct 21 16:54:05 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:54:05 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet error message in art makes art disappear Message-ID: Courteny: Thank you for responding to my question. This is the weirdest thing I've ever encountered, I have to say. Some may think I'm joking or something, but it's actually bizarre to me, not being a programmer, not knowing the esoterica of code. Maybe there is something to what you say. Does Hello/Picasa moderate the images you upload, in real time? I don't get it. Or have the built in code to block anyone from posting internet warning messages on their site? But why? I'm not interested in what's called "net art" where, like a hacker, you tamper with OS's and browser controls and such. The Knowbotics Research type stuff was too strange for me. But all I'm doing is creating parody messages, with abstract designs, for purely artistic effect. Like I have a scary warning message on my www.cosmosblogmos.blogspot.com site to at first intimidate people...until they see that the blog description itself is fiction, a joke, not misanthropic. Anyway, thanks for taking a stab at this. I'm almost scared to post my own art, those two specimens with the warning messages, again. I don't want to get in trouble. But I'll probably do an art specimen with rows of pre-selected boxes and call it "Predestination" as a tribute to the kind folks who put up with a long drawn out debate on this issue :^] Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From court3nay at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 17:27:10 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:27:10 -0700 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet error message in art makes art disappear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102115277b147313@mail.gmail.com> I personally think that screenshots of windows error messages tend to confuse users; (thinking about my parents specifically!) I often see screenshots with changed colors so people don't think its a popup. Perhaps this is what it is blocking? I've never heard of this sort of thing, but, its not particularly difficult to implement (if you know what you're doing that is). I couldn't see anything in the picasa TOS about filtering, or even not posting such images. Maybe a glitch with the upload? Did you try emailing info at picasa.com Hey, here's an idea for an art piece. Make a form that works, with a checkbox that randomly turns itself on and off (on a timer). Heh. Or the words change, inserting "Don't" in front of the phrase so that [ ] Keep my information private becomes [ x ] Don't keep my information private when you click it ;) Could rupture some forehead veins. From ken at adOpenStatic.com Thu Oct 21 18:58:44 2004 From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:58:44 +1000 Subject: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase your registry size References: <000001c4b7b5$2e907840$0500a8c0@kjhome.local> Message-ID: <001001c4b7c9$e6174250$0e02170a@corp.avanade.org> Available online at: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=124594 Cheers Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Smith" Subject: RE: [thelist] error: windows cannot log you on please increase your registry size :> Anybody get this? And fix it? : : Here's an article on it: : PSS ID Number: 124594 : Article Last Modified on 8/29/2003 : From ken at adOpenStatic.com Thu Oct 21 19:03:06 2004 From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:03:06 +1000 Subject: [thelist] roaming profile not loading References: <001601c4b797$e2c36f20$0500a8c0@kjhome.local> Message-ID: <002d01c4b7ca$81d54110$0e02170a@corp.avanade.org> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "Brian Delaney" Subject: [thelist] roaming profile not loading : WE are just all of a sudden seeing that users are getting a local : profile and not their profile from our file server. : : Any ideas??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There simply isn't enough information in your post to identify a single cause/solution. Either the machine can not locate the server the profile is on, the user does not have permission to access it, the server isn't capable of sending the profile back, or the profile can not be loaded because it's somehow corrupted. Can I suggest that more complex support issues that don't really have anything to do with web design per se be taken to a more specialised forum? There's a Windows admin list here: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/community.cfm There's plenty of newsgroups here: news://news.microsoft.com Cheers Ken From ken.schaefer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 19:27:13 2004 From: ken.schaefer at gmail.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:27:13 +1000 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f041021125614da9632@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> <4b430c8f041021125614da9632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11de06e204102117277f03b700@mail.gmail.com> So change it around, and out of the formerly happy 99.9% you now have 5% who find your site annoying because they have to manually select a whole bunch of things that 99.9% of the world wants. The idea that everything needs to be unchecked because somehow this puts the choice in the user's hands is illogical, but seems to have taken on properties of religious dogma. You can have the box checked - as long as the user can uncheck the box, they still have choice. Whether you should check the box depends: a) whether you think most users would prefer to have the box checked (I think a box asking if people want a "tax invoice" - these are necessary for businesses in Australia to claim GST back on business inputs, would be checked) b) what the business model is for your site. Remember: customers are only right up until the point where it no longer makes sense for your organisation to cater to their needs - something I learned from my marketing classes. Given enough customers there will always be some that you can't satisfy no matter how much it costs you - at some point you gotta tell them to go elsewhere (though, not in so many words). Cheers Ken On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:56:47 -0700, Courtenay wrote: > Its the 0.01 that write the angry letters to those higher-up. > > > -- > From paul at web-business-pack.com Thu Oct 21 21:43:31 2004 From: paul at web-business-pack.com (Paul Bennett) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:43:31 +1300 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] $_SESSION madness Message-ID: <417873D3.4070301@web-business-pack.com> Hi kids, I have an application which is driving me nuts with session persistence. I am using the following code in 'logout.php': (PHP 4.3.8) This works fine on my local server (localhost), meaning that the user logs out and there is no evidence of their session variables upon the next login. Loaded up to our test server (pre-production) the script seems to fail to work. A user will 'log out' and then when they go back to the 'register' form, the values are prepoluated with the last users session vars (we are using the same scripts to process new users and users who want to alter their accounts. My understanding is that setting the session array to an empty array in fact replaces the existing array values with nothing, hence 'emptying' the session, so could the session persistence be caused by the session cookie. I'm not too up with the play on session cookies, but my understanding is that the setcookie code above will set the session cookie for the domain to a time in the past, this 'unsetting' the cookie any ideas? From chris at martiantechnologies.com Fri Oct 22 01:57:12 2004 From: chris at martiantechnologies.com (chris at martiantechnologies.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:57:12 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Re: [thechat] Bailing out... Message-ID: <200410220658.i9M6wXs23343@myserverworld.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From dan at canopyroad.com Fri Oct 22 06:41:08 2004 From: dan at canopyroad.com (Dan Leonard) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [thelist] First job developing site for real estate agent In-Reply-To: <417818D8.7010202@neptunewebworks.com> References: <12207.207.156.0.59.1098388854.squirrel@207.156.0.59> <417818D8.7010202@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <5258.207.156.0.59.1098445268.squirrel@207.156.0.59> Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: > Hi Dan, > > Doesn't exactly answer your question, but you might be interested in > Open-Realty - an open source CMS for realtor sites. I imagine the > support forum there would be a good place to ask for general pointers as > well... > http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-realty/ This will be a great resource! Thanks, Maximillian. -Dan From mr.sanders at designshift.com Fri Oct 22 07:49:38 2004 From: mr.sanders at designshift.com (Sarah Sweeney) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:49:38 -0300 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041021132606.92756.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> <4177C1FB.3080504@designshift.com> <4bfd146804102112271d78d0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417901E2.8040604@designshift.com> >>darn ticked about it. I'd rather ask 99.9% of users to check a box that >>face the annoyance/anger of the 0.01% of users who had the box checked >>for them. > > So, you'd rather risk ticking off the 99.9% of your users who get > tired of always having to check that box? Not necessarily - if they were a returning user and they had a saved profile (or maybe a cookie), I could check or not check the checkbox based on their previous selection. -- Sarah Sweeney :: Web Developer & Programmer VOTE! :: http://www.declareyourself.com/ From ron.luther at hp.com Fri Oct 22 08:01:17 2004 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:01:17 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet error message in art makes art disappear Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B7E1@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Steven (with help from Andrea) Streight noted an issue with his art site: >>This is the weirdest thing I've ever encountered, I have to say. Hi Steven, Wierd stuff happens. >>Maybe there is something to what you say. Does Hello/Picasa moderate the >>images you upload, in real time? I doubt it ... that would actually be very hard to do ... and there wouldn't be much point to it since no one is *required* to use their software. >>But all I'm doing is creating parody messages, with abstract designs, >>for purely artistic effect. All visible for me at your site here: http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com/ (I'm running a pretty 'vanilla' win2k box with IE5.5 ... nothing fancy.) >>I'm almost scared to post my own art, >>I don't want to get in trouble. Don't be. You're not in any trouble. (Oh wait, you're not in mainland China are you? ... just kidding.) I think you are going down a 'rabbit trail' here Steven. There may very well be a *technical* issue here somewhere ... perhaps a corrupted version of these graphic files sitting in the cache on your machine ... I'm not sure. But it's very likely to be coincidence -- not censorship that these are the pictures you are having issue with. Try accessing your site from a library - or a friend's machine. I think you'll see that it comes up okay. It smells more like a technical issue with your box. HTH, RonL. From ed at edapostol.com Fri Oct 22 08:04:27 2004 From: ed at edapostol.com (Edward J. Apostol) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:04:27 -0400 Subject: [thelist] CMS content management systems Message-ID: <200410221304.i9MD4Mgl019190@mail261.megamailservers.com> Hi - Not sure if it was already mentioned in the e-volt ng, but if you can follow a small set of instructions to set up Apache, PHP and mySQL (all free to use) or ensure that your hosting provider supports PHP and mySQL, I would recommend XOOPS, (http://www.xoops.org ) an object-oriented PHP-based CMS. In actuality, XOOPS installs with a wizard-like interface ( actually a series of PHP pages) which ask you information about your site setup.fairly straightforward. It has powerful article entry features, and you can create your own "themes" which are a set of web pages that can be as HTML and CSS compliant as you wish (basically, you can design your own template/look and feel) Hope that helps. Cheers Edward Apostol From rob.smith at THERMON.com Fri Oct 22 08:14:55 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:14:55 -0500 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Hi, One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment that "There's bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web development: Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a discussion as to ... why? Is it out of laziness of not checking all the p's and q's? Is it inevitable because we're human and not everything we do is perfect? Is it ignorance because most everything we do in the web arena is "new?" Your thoughts, Rob Smith From dexilalolai at yahoo.com Fri Oct 22 08:29:00 2004 From: dexilalolai at yahoo.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [thelist] RE: internet error message in art makes art disappear In-Reply-To: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B7E1@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Message-ID: <20041022132900.35878.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> > > All visible for me at your site here: > http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com/ > > (I'm running a pretty 'vanilla' win2k box with IE5.5 ... nothing > fancy.) All fine here, Win2k3, Firefox 1.0Preview > - or a friend's machine. I think you'll see that it comes up okay. > It smells > more like a technical issue with your box. Agreed... sgd From joel at spinhead.com Fri Oct 22 08:31:23 2004 From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:31:23 -0700 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B4616DF3@ireland.spinhead.com> > One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment > that "There's bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web > development: > > Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a > discussion as to ... why? Couple reasons come quickly to mind: first, because sometimes good enough really is. Why nail down every flaw if the tool works well enough? Also, yeah, people make mistakes, even the smartest, best intentioned people. Also, when someone who signs your paycheck says it has to be done yesterday and you stay up for three days straight working on it because that's just how it is (not in *my* world, but in some) mistakes are inevitable. Sometimes it's methdology. Vague, incomplete, or conflicting specs, especially in a team environment (as opposed to a single coder) will almost inevitable lead to stuff that doesn't work. Read the other Joel's stuff: http://JoelOnSoftware.com/ - endless reference to why things often don't work, and how to avoid it in your own work. One of my favorite reads. joel From brian at hondaswap.com Fri Oct 22 08:38:54 2004 From: brian at hondaswap.com (brian cummiskey) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:38:54 -0400 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <41790D6E.4060303@hondaswap.com> Rob Smith wrote: > Is it inevitable because we're human and not everything we do is perfect? I think it is inevitable, because people think differently. I may find a way around a page/script that someone else may not even consider doing. It's not that we aren't perfect, its more so that there is no perfect tester. From helen at helephant.com Fri Oct 22 08:49:58 2004 From: helen at helephant.com (Helen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:49:58 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <63994.212.69.35.53.1098452998.squirrel@212.69.35.53> > One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment that "There's > bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web development: > > Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a discussion as to ... > why? I think it's just because we're building complex systems with lots of interdependant bits and it's really hard to keep every single detail you need in your head at the same time. One of the common things I see in different software development processes is the idea of breaking a complex problem into pieces small enough for humans to reliably handle. Software development is hard. There are just so many competing concerns that you have to juggle. Your solution needs to be robust, maintainable, bug free, on schedule, easy to use.. I'm sure other people could list six or seven other non-functional requirements for most projects that the customer doesn't even see unless they're not done properly. These are things you have to constantly keep in your head on top of trying to solve the actual problem. That said.. I still wouldn't want to be doing anything else. If it was easy, it probably wouldn't be half as much fun. :) Helen From court3nay at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 09:01:17 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:01:17 -0700 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410220701655230a5@mail.gmail.com> Actually I wouldn't necessarily agree. Or perhaps what I mean, is, in Good Software, the bugs are so obscure that you'll never find them. It's about being "good enough". For example, look at something like Apache web server. Sure, there are still bugs reported, but when did you ever encounter one (if you have, choose another software product! that was the first thing I thought of) However the Rule about software development (can't remember where I read this) is: Choose two, and only two, of the following: Feature-complete, On-Time, Bug-Free Usually you can't hit any of those targets, but, there you are. Unfortunately (in my experience) its the big wigs that push through for more features, in less time, and thereby causing the bugs. In an ideal world we'd have time to make sure everything was 100%, but that wouldn't pay the bills. > One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment that "There's > bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web development: From viveka.weiley at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 10:07:05 2004 From: viveka.weiley at gmail.com (Viveka Weiley) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:07:05 +1000 Subject: [thelist] Best CMS for Art Gallery Message-ID: <3517424c0410220807e9682ef@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I'm putting together a site for a small local art gallery. It would be good if they could update it themselves, so I'm looking at a CMS. For other sites, I've so far played with Greymatter (lightweight), then Plone (functional), then Geeklog (easy and sufficiently powerful for newsy sites). I've enjoyed using them all, but none of them have particularly good image gallery functions. So I'm wondering if anyone has implemented a CMS for an art gallery recently, or knows of a CMS that would be well suited for this job. I'm not asking here for you to tell me your favourite CMS, unless you happen to think it would be particularly good for an art gallery. I'm looking for the usual - LAMP (Linux or BSD/Apache/MySQL/Perl or Python or PHP). Free/Open Source. News and calendar would be good, but gallery is most important. XHTML and CSS templates for layout ideally. Table-driven templates are OK as long as they're not crazy. Flexible templates; for example it should be possible to have multiple galleries with totally different layouts. Oh, and if possible WebDAV support. The gallery staff are all on Macs, and built-in WebDAV would be easier (for image upload) than FTP, I reckon. But that's not crucial. Any ideas? Thanks, V. -- Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut.http://www.karmanaut.com For a Free Geospace: http://www.planet-earth.org VR on the Mac: http://www.MacWeb3D.org From pmcelhaney at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 11:42:13 2004 From: pmcelhaney at gmail.com (Patrick Mcelhaney) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:42:13 -0400 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <9e30cfed04102209423c9bfc43@mail.gmail.com> > Rob Smith wrote: > Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a discussion as to ... > why? > > Is it out of laziness of not checking all the p's and q's? Yes. I would say it's ignorance rather than laziness. Few us know how important it is to "check our ps and qs." Fewer still know /how/ to "check our ps and qs." > Is it inevitable because we're human and not everything we do is perfect? Yes. But while we'll probably never write perfect software, we should strive to write /better/ software until the cost outweighs the benefit. > Is it ignorance because most everything we do in the web arena is "new?" Yes. Most of the people in the web arena are "new" to software development. Software development itself it "new." Most of what we do in the web arena is "new" even within the sphere of software development. The Wiki has some thought-provoking discussion on this topic: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BugFreeSoftware -- Patrick McElhaney 704.560.9117 http://pmcelhaney.blogspot.com From rob.smith at THERMON.com Fri Oct 22 11:46:11 2004 From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:46:11 -0500 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC4@smtmb.tmc.local> >That said.. I still wouldn't want to be doing anything else. If it was >easy, it probably wouldn't be half as much fun. :) Amen. I polled the audience of developers here and they responded with a couple of different answers: * It's because those who want it real bad, get a real bad product * It's because the requirements keep changing with the market's demands and the lack of time to follow up on the changes. As you develop something the "askers" are already asking for new features and no time to give for fixes to the features we just created. You really have to do it right the first time to survive the bug wave. * I think in smaller organizations its evident because the developer is the person who wrote the specifications, approved them, developed the product, tested it, wrote the help file, and distributed it all from the same computer. Don't forget that this person's boss is in a department that has nothing to do with what you're doing so forget about asking for help. Turn to evolt! :-p ...and scream for mercy. Any honest developer knows that they don't test their own stuff. They know how the thing works! Rob From ron.luther at hp.com Fri Oct 22 12:10:28 2004 From: ron.luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:10:28 -0500 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B7E6@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Rob Smith asked: >>"There's bugs in everything." >>why? Hi Rob, Cool question. I'd point first to 'lack of knowledge' (which is a little more general than vague or imprecise specs) ... sometimes you just don't know the business process or the "special cases" well enough to 'do things right the first time'. I'd also like to second Joel's 'good enough' comment. I'm kinda picky - but I run into a lot of people who think '90$ is good enough'. Finally, I'd like to add another (possible new can of worms) to the mix ... I find that very very few people actually know how to test stuff thoroughly. Which, I guess, is understandable because it requires a lot of creative thinking (and a lot of elbow grease)! Oh, and I suppose it requires more than a healthy dose of mistrust and paranoia. It's hard to challenge common sense. ("Why should I look for things that shipped before they were ordered? That couldn't possibly happen! .... wellllll .... how about because we're not looking at what happened - we're looking at what the data says happened ... that's the difference.) Thanks, RonL. (Who this morning [like waaaay too many mornings] had to slap several groups upside the head because I found serious flaws in things they had 'checked out as okay' .... Grrrrrr!) From joshua at waetech.com Fri Oct 22 12:09:35 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:09:35 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Friday Freebie Message-ID: Hopefully this helps somebody out. I just restumbled across some code I wrote to dynamically add events to the document's onload handler that should be completely cross-browser (for JS enabled browsers)... and I mean COMPLETELY... as in it works on a Mac, Mozilla, IE, Opera, etc. If you want to add another function to execute when the page is loaded, follow this example: function myOnLoadFunction() { alert('hello, world.'); } addBodyOnload(myOnLoadFunction); <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From j.denholmprice at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 14:39:03 2004 From: j.denholmprice at gmail.com (James Denholm-Price) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:39:03 +0100 Subject: [thelist] [PHP] $_SESSION madness In-Reply-To: <417873D3.4070301@web-business-pack.com> References: <417873D3.4070301@web-business-pack.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:43:31 +1300, Paul Bennett wrote: > ... > My understanding is that setting the session array to an empty array in > fact replaces the existing array values with nothing, hence 'emptying' > the session, so could the session persistence be caused by the session > cookie. I'm not too up with the play on session cookies, but my > understanding is that the setcookie code above will set the session > cookie for the domain to a time in the past, this 'unsetting' the cookie > > any ideas? Perhaps try session_destroy Otherwise I'd recommend reading the PHP session manual pages ... not reddit myself but other pages are always informative. HTH, James From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz Fri Oct 22 17:01:27 2004 From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:01:27 +1300 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything References: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060861B7E6@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Message-ID: <003501c4b882$cfe3f960$d06237d2@oemcomputer> One of the fundamentals laws of computing they used to teach: "It is impossible to write a bug free program" and of course the more complex a system is the more opportunities to screw up, lol, so the basic assumption must be that you will make errors........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luther, Ron" Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 6:10 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything : Rob Smith asked: : : >>"There's bugs in everything." : >>why? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/04 From scotts at rci-nv.com Fri Oct 22 17:57:42 2004 From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:57:42 -0700 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <6F7A655FF6A59041984CC53252B3D20B074A35@rci-nv.com> > : Rob Smith asked: > : > : >>"There's bugs in everything." > : >>why? Dave Winer, in 1995: "We Make Shitty Software... With Bugs!" http://davenet.scripting.com/1995/09/03/wemakeshittysoftware Also, for fun, scroll down that page to remember a time when IE didn't even support tables and only had 1.5% of the market. And even then people were pushing web standards. -- Scott Schrantz work: www.rci-nv.com play: www.computer-vet.com/weblog/ From Warren.Vail at schwab.com Fri Oct 22 18:12:24 2004 From: Warren.Vail at schwab.com (Vail, Warren) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:12:24 -0700 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Message-ID: <72138202E59CD6118E960002A52CD9D2178E2A77@n1025smx.nt.schwab.com> Diner: Waiter, what is this bug doing in my soup? Waiter (after close examination): Looks like the backstroke,,, Nothing will identify your fallibility as quickly as writing and testing a complex program. There are people in almost all companies, whose survival depends on their political skills, namely, pinning blame on others, escaping responsibility, and taking credit where they can. If a person can make the claim that he has never written a program bug, it's safe to assume he has never written a program. Finding and eliminating bugs is a science in itself, and notice I said "finding and eliminating" as apposed to "finding and reporting". Those that can "find and eliminate" bugs are the Rodney Dangerfield's of a company. Monkeys can "find and report" bugs. I suspect that being victimized by an office politician on these issues drives more people to leave the computer field than any other single cause. I just hope that when my job is sent to India, they place a politician in charge and make him responsible. Warren Vail -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:15 AM To: Thelist (E-mail) Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything Hi, One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment that "There's bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web development: Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a discussion as to ... why? Is it out of laziness of not checking all the p's and q's? Is it inevitable because we're human and not everything we do is perfect? Is it ignorance because most everything we do in the web arena is "new?" Your thoughts, Rob Smith -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From julia at juliadesigns.net Fri Oct 22 19:27:38 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:27:38 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> Hi everyone: This is my first post to the list, so I am sorry if the question seems a bit simplistic. My pages validate as XHTML 1.0 Transitional, but I was hoping to enable them to validate as Strict, and eventually XHTML 1.1. I have run them through the Validator, and the main stumbling block appears to be the use of the target attribute for anchors (specifically target="_"blank") for links to external sites which I wish to have open in a new window. I have been crawling around W3c.org for ages, but cant find anything on the syntax that I should use instead. Can anyone help me please? thanks in advance Julia From astreight at msn.com Fri Oct 22 19:39:19 2004 From: astreight at msn.com (ANDREA STREIGHT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:39:19 -0500 Subject: [thelist] RE: internet error message in art causes art to disappear? Message-ID: Thanks Ron Luther, Scott Dexter, Sarah, and everyone who replied to my weird problem uploading JASC Paint Shop Pro art to my blog sites with Hello/Picasa. It gets weirder still. The uploading problem with art that has parody Status-Code, Client Syntax Error, and Server Error messages in them, with actual URLs and Apache information, etc.: probably just a bizarre coincidence. Coincidence that it was these particular art uploads that were malfunctioning, disappearing. I talked to a friend, who wants to work in network security, but isn't certified yet, speaks often about Linux, Red Hat, proxies, and such. He explained how the 2000+KB photo files someone sent to my MSN inbox, which I forwarded to wife's computer at work, then deleted, may have affected my computer, they were delivered to my hard drive, ports open, etc. I don't follow all this talk too well. You folks probably understand it clearly, whilst to me it is murky. See, during this problem time frame, I was also seeing that the photo files were endlessly in "sending files" mode on MSN Messenger. For nearly 12 hours. I could not send or receive any other email on MSN Messenger. I also could not visit several sites, like GMail, my blogs, Yahoo mail, others. Or it took huge amounts of time to do it. I called MSN 800 number and the tech guy was super friendly, efficient, and correct. I did a Control Shift F9 to delete MSN Messenger settings. He said it would delete all my email archives, but it didn't. It seems to have solved the problem. MSN Messenger is not relentlessly sending those photo files. Strange coincidences and odd mishaps. I've been working on this problem, first trying to solve it without tech help, all day. Steven Streight STREIGHT SITE SYSTEMS Web Usability Analysis Web Content Writing Online & Direct Marketing astreight at msn.com www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com *Web Usability* www.streightsite.blogspot.com *Mentally Correct Marketing* www.ArtTestExplosion.blogspot.com *Experimental Computer Art* www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0408-user-observation.html *latest published online article* From vlad.alexander at xstandard.com Fri Oct 22 20:12:48 2004 From: vlad.alexander at xstandard.com (Vlad Alexander (XStandard)) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:12:48 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? Message-ID: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> Hi Julia, There are several ways to do this. The easiest is the following: text If the browser does not support JavaScript or it's no enabled, the link will open in current window. Regards, -Vlad http://xstandard.com Standards-compliant XHTML (Strict / 1.1) WYSIWYG editor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? > Hi everyone: > This is my first post to the list, so I am sorry if the question seems a > bit simplistic. > My pages validate as XHTML 1.0 Transitional, but I was hoping to enable > them to validate as Strict, and eventually XHTML 1.1. > I have run them through the Validator, and the main stumbling block appears > to be the use of the target attribute for anchors (specifically > target="_"blank") for links to external sites which I wish to have open in > a new window. I have been crawling around W3c.org for ages, but cant find > anything on the syntax that I should use instead. > Can anyone help me please? > thanks in advance > Julia > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From ben at stopphysics.com Fri Oct 22 19:50:35 2004 From: ben at stopphysics.com (Ben Scott) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:50:35 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Link pseudo-class style Message-ID: Having problems getting your styles for "a:link" and "a:hover" to apply to your links once they have been visited? Is the use of "a:visited" or "a:active" preventing the "a:hover" from working? Check out this article on the SPLOG: http://splog.stopphysics.com/pubs/article_01.php ____________________________________________________________________________ stopphysics photographic, llc. Photographic Services for Business & Media Benjamin Scott 971.998-3462 ben at stopphysics.com www.stopphysics.com From joshua at waetech.com Fri Oct 22 20:52:39 2004 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:52:39 -0400 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <6F7A655FF6A59041984CC53252B3D20B074A35@rci-nv.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Schrantz > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:58 PM > "We Make Shitty Software... With Bugs!" > > http://davenet.scripting.com/1995/09/03/wemakeshittysoftware I love the reference to August 24, 1995. I remember what I was doing--I was waiting for the doors to open at Egghead. I was already IN Egghead because I worked there... People were piled up at the door, arms flailing, ready to bust in at the stroke of midnight to wait in line for 4 hours while we tried to push them Plus and a whole other slew of add-ons for their shiny new Windows 95 software. We had to wear special shirts that said Windows 95. I still have that shirt... 2 of them actually. I wear them when I go running. They have holes in them, the shoulders are nearly worn through. I cut the arms sleeves off one so I could see myself better in the mirror at the gym. Ahh... the memories. Thanks for the link! <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From info at gwcreative.com Fri Oct 22 21:07:00 2004 From: info at gwcreative.com (Gregory Wostrel) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:07:00 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Link pseudo-class style In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <399DD710-2498-11D9-B660-000A95AFA060@gwcreative.com> On Oct 22, 2004, at 8:50pm, Ben Scott wrote: > Having problems getting your styles for "a:link" and "a:hover" to > apply to > your links once they have been visited? Is the use of "a:visited" or > "a:active" preventing the "a:hover" from working? Well, that is all well and good and I think I follow the reasoning. But, for me, I learned a few years ago that the pseudo classes need to be applied in one certain order to work. I remember it like so: LoVe HA or LVHA. (link, visited, hover, active) There is a sticky on the corner of my monitor with that acronym. Since I learned that, they always work. Do it differently and it won't. Simple as that. Gregory Wostrel gwcreative email: gw at gwcreative.com web: http://www.gwcreative.com tel: 401.286.9228 Communications and the Art of Simplicity From court3nay at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 21:46:32 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:46:32 -0700 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> References: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> > text also if you're concerned about strict, you're probably wanting to separate presentation from content, so some javascript in the head section is required (in a function that is body.onloaded) var hrefs = document.getElementsByTagName('A'); for (i in hrefs) { if (href[i].className == 'pop_me') href[i].onclick = function() { window.open(this.href); return false; } } then in the link text then any link with class pop_me will load in a new window, and your code will look pretty. you'll also save yourself some bandwidth by not repeating the onclick. On a slightly different note, what about for people with no javascript, but with frames? From evoltlist at delime.com Fri Oct 22 21:52:49 2004 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:52:49 -0400 Subject: [thelist] Link pseudo-class style In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20041022224501.00a4ab90@mx.delime.com> Message from Ben Scott (10/22/2004 08:50 PM) >Having problems getting your styles for "a:link" and "a:hover" to apply to >your links once they have been visited? Is the use of "a:visited" or >"a:active" preventing the "a:hover" from working? The easy way to remember the correct order is: LoVe/HAte link visited hover active regards. -m -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From robertcrawford at peoplepc.com Sat Oct 23 03:34:52 2004 From: robertcrawford at peoplepc.com (Robert Crawford) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:34:52 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting In-Reply-To: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> Brent Morris said the following on 10/20/2004 10:35 PM: >I have a friend that wants to set up a website with just their >business card info on it for now. Can anyone recommend a really cheap, >no bells and whistles host? I'm seriously thinking the "site" will be >100Kb tops. > >TIA > > Brent, I use http://www.godaddy.com, for small websites. Just checked and .biz is $4.95 per year and hosting is $3.95 per month with 50 megs and php programming. Robert From chris at logorocks.com Sat Oct 23 04:32:35 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:32:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Dear list, Does anyone have an opinion on whether checkboxes should be...heh. A client of mine wants to totally content manage his site. He also wants twisty-style navigation - which he can edit. Does anyone know of a CMS that will enable him to add and change nav elements? TIA, CK. From julia at juliadesigns.net Sat Oct 23 06:23:12 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:23:12 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> References: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023122011.01c66ec0@mail.juliadesigns.net> At 03:46 23/10/2004, you wrote: > > onkeypress="window.open(this.href); return false;" href="abc">text > > > also if you're concerned about strict, you're probably wanting to >separate presentation from content, so some javascript in the head >section is required (in a function that is body.onloaded) Thank you both very much. I am a bit of a Javascript newbie (just learning it in college!) so will go away and try this in my pages now. Julia From vlad.alexander at xstandard.com Sat Oct 23 06:44:00 2004 From: vlad.alexander at xstandard.com (Vlad Alexander (XStandard)) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:44:00 -0400 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? References: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001801c4b8f5$975f4cc0$6401a8c0@HUSKY> Hi Courtenay, > On a slightly different note, what about for people with no > javascript, but with frames? There are no frames in XHTML 1.0 Strict. Regards, -Vlad http://xstandard.com Standards-compliant XHTML (Strict / 1.1) WYSIWYG editor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Courtenay" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? > > text > > also if you're concerned about strict, you're probably wanting to > separate presentation from content, so some javascript in the head > section is required (in a function that is body.onloaded) > > var hrefs = document.getElementsByTagName('A'); > for (i in hrefs) > { > if (href[i].className == 'pop_me') > href[i].onclick = function() { window.open(this.href); return false; } > } > > then in the link > > text > > then any link with class pop_me will load in a new window, and your > code will look pretty. you'll also save yourself some bandwidth by not > repeating the onclick. > > > > On a slightly different note, what about for people with no > javascript, but with frames? > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From rick at countryexpress.nl Sat Oct 23 07:23:20 2004 From: rick at countryexpress.nl (Rick den Haan) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:23:20 +0200 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <001801c4b8f5$975f4cc0$6401a8c0@HUSKY> Message-ID: <200410231223.i9NCNSl13680@gijs.eatserver.nl> > On a slightly different note, what about for people with no > javascript, but with frames? That's been bugging me as well. The CSS-Frame trick is pretty complicated to learn, so in those rare occasions I really do need frames I tend to use the HTML 4.01 Frameset doctype that calls valid XHTML 1.0 Strict or XHTML 1.1 frames. To imitate target="RightFrame" I use a modified version of the target="_blank"-trick: Example Of course, this won't work without javascript. What you *could* do is something like this: But that would be cheating and I don't think the W3C Validator will allow it. My guess is, if you really want to use frames and targets without javascript, stick to HTML 4... HTH, Rick. From julia at juliadesigns.net Sat Oct 23 08:23:12 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:23:12 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> References: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023141003.01bf5a40@mail.juliadesigns.net> At 03:46 23/10/2004, you wrote: > > also if you're concerned about strict, you're probably wanting to >separate presentation from content, so some javascript in the head >section is required (in a function that is body.onloaded) > >var hrefs = document.getElementsByTagName('A'); >for (i in hrefs) >{ > if (href[i].className == 'pop_me') > href[i].onclick = function() { window.open(this.href); return false; } >} > >then in the link > >text > >then any link with class pop_me will load in a new window, and your >code will look pretty. you'll also save yourself some bandwidth by not >repeating the onclick. > > Me again! Sorry to be such a pest, but: I am still in javascript kindergarten, and whilst I understand the concept here, I am obviously missing some basic instructions to get this to work. Could you tell me exactly how I put this "in a function that is body.onloaded" and how I call it in body onload? I have tried calling the function: function newWin() then onclick =newWin() and then putting that in body onload but it doesnt work. thanks again, Julia (goes away humbly to read basic javascript tutorials.....) From julia at juliadesigns.net Sat Oct 23 08:36:35 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:36:35 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Simple no nonesense hosting In-Reply-To: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023142649.01bf9050@mail.juliadesigns.net> Hosting.MyMarkdown.com offers a lot of features for a really cheap price ($11.40 for a whole year), but I havent actually tried them personally. That, coupled with the .biz domain mentioned in another reply, would seem to be an inexpensive way to get up and running. Julia From markgroen at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 09:40:05 2004 From: markgroen at gmail.com (Mark Groen) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:40:05 -0700 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023141003.01bf5a40@mail.juliadesigns.net> References: <46n3ax7kff5ka8c.221020042112@pinscher> <4b430c8f0410221946486a8c06@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041023141003.01bf5a40@mail.juliadesigns.net> Message-ID: <23dbfbd1041023074069526db0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:23:12 +0100, Julia <> wrote: > At 03:46 23/10/2004, you wrote: > Could you tell me exactly how I put this "in a function that is > body.onloaded" and how I call it in body onload? > I have tried calling the function: > > function newWin() > then onclick =newWin() > > and then putting that in body onload but it doesnt work. > thanks again, > Julia > (goes away humbly to read basic javascript tutorials.....) You are sort of on the right track, almost... The part you're missing I think is the javascript is loaded in the head section as a general rule for this sort of thing, not through the onload function. Since you are only validating for 1.0, you can use this in your head section, or just have the script part in a seperate file, it's just a pop-up script with everything enabled. Your link in the body section: some text to click on cheers, Mark MG Web Services www.mgwebservices.ca Your Canadian West Coast web site development and hosting solution. From hassan at webtuitive.com Sat Oct 23 09:38:24 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:38:24 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Message-ID: <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> Chris Kavanagh wrote: > He also > wants twisty-style navigation - which he can edit. OK, I'll bite -- what is "twisty-style navigation"?? -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From symeon at systasis.com Sat Oct 23 13:27:33 2004 From: symeon at systasis.com (Symeon Charalabides) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:27:33 -0200 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> Message-ID: <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> > I have run them through the Validator, and the main stumbling block appears > to be the use of the target attribute for anchors (specifically > target="_"blank") for links to external sites which I wish to have open in > a new window. I have been crawling around W3c.org for ages, but cant find > anything on the syntax that I should use instead. I have been using the following technique with satisfactory results: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/standards-compliant-world The good things about it are: - you don't cramp your HTML with JS statements that shouldn't be there - it conforms with the spirit of Web Standards, not only with the syntax Symeon Charalabides (cosmopolite trainee) ------------------------------------------------- http://www.systasis.com From alex at deltatraffic.co.uk Sat Oct 23 12:33:34 2004 From: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk (Alex Beston) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:33:34 +0100 Subject: [thelist] wki recommedation In-Reply-To: <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <417A95EE.80208@deltatraffic.co.uk> Hi All, Looking for a wiki to run on a linux server. Any ideas? on a quick google i couldnt find anything. alex -- Alex Beston Business Director deltaTraffic Tel: 01273 297927 www.deltatraffic.co.uk From hassan at webtuitive.com Sat Oct 23 13:59:04 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:59:04 -0700 Subject: [thelist] wki recommedation In-Reply-To: <417A95EE.80208@deltatraffic.co.uk> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> <417A95EE.80208@deltatraffic.co.uk> Message-ID: <417AA9F8.7040502@webtuitive.com> Alex Beston wrote: > Looking for a wiki to run on a linux server. > > Any ideas? on a quick google i couldnt find anything. ?!? "couldn't find anything"??? Words fail me :-) -- the third item returned by Google for "Wiki software" is "This is the canonical list of WikiEngines...." Ordered by language, incidentally, which is a lot more critical than OS, in most cases. Personally I use JSPWiki, on both Linux and Win*. HTH, -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From alex at deltatraffic.co.uk Sat Oct 23 14:25:36 2004 From: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk (Alex Beston) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:25:36 +0100 Subject: [thelist] wki recommedation - moin moin? In-Reply-To: <417AA9F8.7040502@webtuitive.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> <417A95EE.80208@deltatraffic.co.uk> <417AA9F8.7040502@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <417AB030.9000004@deltatraffic.co.uk> > Looking for a wiki to run on a linux server. > ?!? "couldn't find anything"??? Words fail me :-) -- the third item > returned by Google for "Wiki software" is > > > > "This is the canonical list of WikiEngines...." Found moin-moin. v 1.2.4 via anbther news group not sure if its any good. anyone had dealings with moin? alex -- Alex Beston Business Director deltaTraffic Tel: 01273 297927 www.deltatraffic.co.uk From bedouglas at earthlink.net Sat Oct 23 15:20:25 2004 From: bedouglas at earthlink.net (bruce) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:20:25 -0700 Subject: [thelist] wki recommedation In-Reply-To: <417AA9F8.7040502@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <017901c4b93d$bc4727e0$0301a8c0@Mesa.com> -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:59 AM To: alex at deltatraffic.co.uk; thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] wki recommedation hi... i'm also looking for a wiki running in a linux/apache/php environment... and yeah.. i've spent time looking through numerous apps, tring to figure out what makes sense!!! i'm going to need something to allow users to possibly login/register, possibly implement some sort of file permissions/access rights, upload/download/modify/view docs, view/modify/extract past versions of docs, as well as create/admin different sections of the wiki for different topics... i'd also like something relatively simple to setup/administer, with a good look/feel. basic product management functionality would also be useful. the wiki app will be used to help build a software project with different people accessing the various docs, and modifying the docs.. which is why product management functionality would be useful... my eyes have glazed over from looking at so many different apps!!! any thoughts/comments/opinions on what you've tried/liked for the platform i mentioned will be helpful.... thanks -bruce Alex Beston wrote: > Looking for a wiki to run on a linux server. > > Any ideas? on a quick google i couldnt find anything. ?!? "couldn't find anything"??? Words fail me :-) -- the third item returned by Google for "Wiki software" is "This is the canonical list of WikiEngines...." Ordered by language, incidentally, which is a lot more critical than OS, in most cases. Personally I use JSPWiki, on both Linux and Win*. HTH, -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From julia at juliadesigns.net Sat Oct 23 16:48:10 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:48:10 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023224418.01bf4ec0@mail.juliadesigns.net> > > the main stumbling block appears > > to be the use of target="_"blank" > > >I have been using the following technique with satisfactory results: > > > http://www.sitepoint.com/article/standards-compliant-world I like it! Is it compliant for use with XHTML 1.1 as well, do you know? thanks, Julia From court3nay at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 17:23:41 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:23:41 -0700 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> Message-ID: <4b430c8f041023152363963db2@mail.gmail.com> that's an excellent link, thanks so much! I'm going to do it that way myself in the future,. Just one thing---it's much cooler (IMO) to do for (i in whatever) rather than for (i=0;; blah blah) But then I think LISP is cool, too,. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do it the shorter way? On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:27:33 -0200, Symeon Charalabides wrote: > > I have run them through the Validator, and the main stumbling block appears > > to be the use of the target attribute for anchors (specifically > > target="_"blank") for links to external sites which I wish to have open in > > a new window. I have been crawling around W3c.org for ages, but cant find > > anything on the syntax that I should use instead. > > I have been using the following technique with satisfactory results: > > http://www.sitepoint.com/article/standards-compliant-world > > The good things about it are: > - you don't cramp your HTML with JS statements that shouldn't be there > - it conforms with the spirit of Web Standards, not only with the syntax > > > Symeon Charalabides (cosmopolite trainee) > ------------------------------------------------- > http://www.systasis.com > > > > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From hassan at webtuitive.com Sat Oct 23 18:05:48 2004 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:05:48 -0700 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f041023152363963db2@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> <417A8675.14636.5162C55@localhost> <4b430c8f041023152363963db2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417AE3CC.4000201@webtuitive.com> Courtenay wrote: > Just one thing---it's much cooler (IMO) to do > for (i in whatever) > > rather than > for (i=0;; blah blah) > Is there any reason why I shouldn't do it the shorter way? Only that it won't work[1] -- but hey, don't let that stop you! :-) [1] because numerically indexed arrays and associative arrays are different objects with different methods... FWIW, -- Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. From shiva at io.com Sat Oct 23 22:48:41 2004 From: shiva at io.com (Earl Cooley) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:48:41 -0500 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> Message-ID: I use some Javascript that goes through the page and adds a _blank Target to every external link it finds: function outLinks(){ var wlhref = window.location.href; var dlinks = document.links; for (var i=0; i<(dlinks.length); i++) if ((dlinks[i].href.indexOf(wlhref)==-1)) dlinks[i].target = '_blank'; } window.onload = function() { outLinks(); } -- 3 e=sc^ (shiva at io.com) Earl Cooley III (the "other" Earl) From court3nay at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 00:28:56 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:28:56 -0700 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f04102322289a3ff03@mail.gmail.com> Here's an interesting modification I just thought of.. I have a pet peeve - I hate it when links open in a new window. In fact, if I want them to open like that, I middle-click in firefox to open in a new tab, so _blank is redundant, and an annoyance, (yes I know you can get an extension for this, but it messes with download and javascript debugger windows). I don't want to start a default-checkbox war here, but here's a little workaround, if anyone's interested (or can fix it up a bit), put a checkbox at the top (or bottom) of the page that says "open new links in new window" thus: Open links in new window then in your code function OutLinks() { var wlhref = window.location.href; var dlinks = document.links; for (var i=0; i<(dlinks.length); i++) if ((dlinks[i].href.indexOf(wlhref)==-1)) if (document.getElementById('opennew').checked) dlinks[i].target = '_blank'; else dlinks[i].target = ''; } } You could probably adjust the code to check for your domain (regexp for a generic function i guess) and open 'true' external links as well....... On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:48:41 -0500, Earl Cooley wrote: > I use some Javascript that goes through the page and adds a > _blank Target to every external link it finds: > > function outLinks(){ > var wlhref = window.location.href; > var dlinks = document.links; > for (var i=0; i<(dlinks.length); i++) > if ((dlinks[i].href.indexOf(wlhref)==-1)) > dlinks[i].target = '_blank'; > } > > window.onload = function() { > outLinks(); > } From julia at juliadesigns.net Sun Oct 24 06:45:30 2004 From: julia at juliadesigns.net (Julia) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:45:30 +0100 Subject: [thelist] XHTML 1.0 Strict -no target attribute allowed? In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041023012244.01cabd60@mail.aultmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041024123146.01bca980@mail.juliadesigns.net> > I use some Javascript that goes through the page and adds a > _blank Target to every external link it finds: > function outLinks(){ var wlhref = window.location.href; var dlinks = document.links; for (var i=0; i<(dlinks.length); i++) if ((dlinks[i].href.indexOf(wlhref)==-1)) dlinks[i].target = '_blank'; > } > window.onload = function() { outLinks(); > } Are you using the link rel=external as described in the Sitepoint article? I am having trouble getting that to work in IE6, although it works beautifully in Mozilla. In IE it serves up a totally blank page for the page that has the script and links on it, although the source code is all there as it should be. I am off now to try another test page, in case I made an error on the original one causing IE to throw a hissy fit. I used Dreamweaver to find and replace all target="_blank" with rel=external, and changed the doctype from XHTML 1.0 Transitional to XHTML 1.1. This validated ok, and when I removed the javascript the page content appeared, although not exactly in the position it should have been. Anyone else had any similar issues with IE, or is it just coder-error? Julia From chris at logorocks.com Sun Oct 24 09:38:06 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:38:06 +0100 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> References: <473083e204102020354359bbec@mail.gmail.com> <417A17AC.50509@peoplepc.com> <78AEE6C5-24D6-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> <417A6CE0.4050807@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: <51382694-25CA-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> On 23 Oct 2004, at 3:38 pm, Hassan Schroeder wrote: > > He also >> wants twisty-style navigation - which he can edit. > > OK, I'll bite -- what is "twisty-style navigation"?? Aha! To me, twisties are like the things you get in (the accursed) Windows Explorer. They expand and contract to show or hide their contents as you click them. Am I not using the correct term for those things? Kind regards, CK. From harvester at lists.evolt.org Sun Oct 24 18:00:22 2004 From: harvester at lists.evolt.org (harvester at lists.evolt.org) Date: 24 Oct 2004 23:00:22 -0000 Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Oct 18, 2004 Message-ID: <20041024230022.26303.qmail@acornparenting.org> The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Oct 18, 2004 has been added to the lists.evolt.org site. Get it at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/show.cgi?w=20041018 Week at a glance listing at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/week.cgi?w=20041018 Harvest Summary --------------- Number of messages: 250 Number of tips : 15 Tip Authors ----------- bruce (1) Courtenay (1) dexilalolai at yahoo.com (1) Garrett Coakley (2) Javier Velasco (1) Joshua Olson (4) M. Seyon (1) Mark Joslyn (1) Max Schwanekamp (1) noah (1) Scott Dexter (1) Tip Types --------- C#, .NET (1) finding old sites/articles online (1) HTML (1) JavaScript (1) Local W3C validator (1) Processing Checkboxes in PHP (2) Screenshots on OSX (1) SQL Server (1) Typos in HTML pages (1) Unclassified (2) user centered design (1) VS.NET (1) Workspace (1) From damiencola at wanadoo.fr Sun Oct 24 18:00:51 2004 From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:00:51 +0200 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <51382694-25CA-11D9-8C31-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> Message-ID: <044601c4ba1d$4f469460$1f00a8c0@ELECTRA> i think you would say 'tree-style' navigation or 'expandable tree-style' navigation, and i forget some more ways to call it, probably more accurate. -----Original Message----- > > He also >> wants twisty-style navigation - which he can edit. > > OK, I'll bite -- what is "twisty-style navigation"?? Am I not using the correct term for those things? From ken.schaefer at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 19:29:28 2004 From: ken.schaefer at gmail.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:29:28 +1000 Subject: [thelist] General Statement - There's Bugs in Everything In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC92703E7CEC2@smtmb.tmc.local> Message-ID: <11de06e2041024172973c9aae@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:14:55 -0500, Rob Smith wrote: > One of the "big wigs" surprised me yesterday with a comment that "There's > bugs in everything." I took this in lieu of web development: > > Although I whole heartedly agree with him, I open a discussion as to ... > why? > > Is it out of laziness of not checking all the p's and q's? > Is it inevitable because we're human and not everything we do is perfect? > Is it ignorance because most everything we do in the web arena is "new?" For starters, humans are fallible - we often make mistakes. We do it in our everyday living, so I somehow doubt it's impossible to flush it out of our coding. Obviously, as we go through life, we learn how to avoid making common mistakes (well, most of us do), and likewise we stop making common mistakes in our programming. We stop making syntax errors, and progress (sic) to logical errors, and then finally to design errors. Secondly, we are imprecise communicators. What the end user wants might not be accurately conveyed to the analyst, and then not accurately end up in the specifications for the project. Add this to time, energy and knowledge limits (for example, what end user rigorously reviews every specifications document to make sure they're getting what they want?), and you have a recipe for mismatched expectations Lastly, what someone might call a "bug" someone else calls a "feature" (that might make you laugh!) or an "unsupported situation" or "outside the specifications". I'm writing a word processor. I use a long to store the current page number. Assuming an unsigned long, that'll give me about 4 billion pages. The original specs probably call for a "page numbering feature", but nothing that indicates whether this should handle "negative numbers", "imaginary numbers", or documents than have more than 4 billion pages. So what happens when someone decides to be smart and start numbering their pages at 4294967295 and the next page is page 1? Is that a bug? Or is it a situation that is outside the specifications of the application? I mean, we could handle documents with larger page counts, but at what point do we stop? Obviously at the point that's mentioned in the specs, but at what point do we stop writing specs? At what point have we handled every reasonably conceivable situation in the specs? Someone on this list once said that applictions should never ship with bugs - my personal opinion is that that particular person simply isn't aware of the bugs in their applications - any non-trivial application these days has "bugs" in it. Whether they are really coding errors, or the result of other factors (eg misunderstandings or incomplete communication between end user and developer) is another issue. This is worth reading as well: More on Quality http://weblogs.asp.net/chris_pratley/archive/2004/02/05/67871.aspx Cheers Ken From david at gigawatt.com Sun Oct 24 20:17:31 2004 From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:17:31 -0400 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties References: <044601c4ba1d$4f469460$1f00a8c0@ELECTRA> Message-ID: <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> Damien COLA wrote: > >>>> He wants twisty-style navigation >>> >>> OK, I'll bite -- what is "twisty-style navigation"?? >> > Am I not using the correct term for those things? > > i think you would say 'tree-style' navigation or 'expandable > tree-style' navigation, and i forget some more ways to call it, Hierarchical menus, Explorer-style navigation? Microsoft calls it a "Tree-view" control. Apple calls theirs a "Finder" ...all of which just goes to show you: What's in a name? If his client wants twisty navigation, and he knows what the hell the guy is talking about... he'll have one more client than I will. I would've been giving the guy the glassy-eyed stare, wondering whether twisty navigation meant curvy, convoluted, rotating DNA strand navigation or what :-) -dave From chris at logorocks.com Sun Oct 24 21:07:22 2004 From: chris at logorocks.com (Chris Kavanagh) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 03:07:22 +0100 Subject: [thelist] twisties In-Reply-To: <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> References: <044601c4ba1d$4f469460$1f00a8c0@ELECTRA> <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <9BE103FA-262A-11D9-84DF-000393971BD0@logorocks.com> > If his client wants twisty navigation, and he knows what the hell the > guy is talking about... he'll have one more client than I will. I > would've been giving the guy the glassy-eyed stare, wondering whether > twisty navigation meant curvy, convoluted, rotating DNA strand > navigation or what :-) Heh. Probably it did, and I am going to have one seriously disappointed client tomorrow morning. He wanted his website to look like the title sequence from Spiderman, and he ends up getting Windows Explorer. Anyway, I think you guys are right, this is called "tree"-style navigation. The ColdFusion tag should have tipped me off to this. I think they're called twisties in Lotus Notes. Oh well, nearly finished. Ciao! CK. From court3nay at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 21:06:57 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:06:57 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> References: <044601c4ba1d$4f469460$1f00a8c0@ELECTRA> <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410241906183a43f4@mail.gmail.com> Where on earth did you get the name "twisty" from, though? (thinking about the cheesy snacks) From court3nay at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 21:11:01 2004 From: court3nay at gmail.com (Courtenay) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:11:01 -0700 Subject: [thelist] CMS twisties In-Reply-To: <4b430c8f0410241906183a43f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <044601c4ba1d$4f469460$1f00a8c0@ELECTRA> <000801c4ba30$66f8e280$1401000a@dopey> <4b430c8f0410241906183a43f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b430c8f0410241911409fbf86@mail.gmail.com> OK, apologies for going off there! A bit of googling revealed it's a legit term ;) I always called them 'triangly things', and 'triangly thing navigation' >From IBM: "To collapse a view, click Collapse. Expand an individual section of a view by clicking on the twisty (a small, triangular arrow icon) to the left of the section name; collapse the section by clicking the twisty again." >From Mozilla "With your mouse, single-click the "twisty" (down-pointing arrow-shaped widget) to the left of Appearance's label to collapse the parent category." So, by "twisty" you actually mean the triangle thing, not so much an explorer-style tree view with pluses and the like.. On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:06:57 -0700, Courtenay wrote: > Where on earth did you get the name "twisty" from, though? > (thinking about the cheesy snacks) > From eike.pierstorff at dynamique.de Thu Oct 21 13:32:45 2004 From: eike.pierstorff at dynamique.de (Eike Pierstorff) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:32:45 +0200 Subject: [thelist] RE: checked vs. unchecked boxes In-Reply-To: <6d5eee8041021103748f62a11@mail.gmail.com> References: <21ec1dc9961e45aba33be35229fd3d8c@easylistbox.com> <6d5eee8041021103748f62a11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417800CD.4050603@dynamique.de> Greg Holmes schrieb: > The fact remains, checkboxes *always* have a default > state, whether you specify the default or not. You > are choosing a default to present to the user, even if > you don't think about it. I wasn't the one making the > blanket assertion about what the default should be. Here in Germany preselecting checkboxes is, in most cases, illegal. The theorie behind this is the law of cause and effect; if I fail to provide a cause (like selecting a checkbox) I do not expect any effect to take place. If a Website tries to have any effect on my mail account or bank account without me providing a cause this is considered spam or fraud respectively. You may preselect checkboxes if you are sure that they do not have any effect on your visitors. German legislation is, in this case, user-centric. It does not care about the default state of your checkboxes, it is supposed to protect the default state of your users -- eike.pierstorff at dynamique.de 0179 133 60 44 "F?hre mich nicht in Versuchung. Ich finde den Weg selber."