[thelist] Please tell me why I hate Flash - longish

[Kristina Floyd]

Firstly I'd just like to say - how I wish I'd found this list 2 years
ago (at least!!)  I've learned so much from it already.

Thank you

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

too Fortunes email 'Hear hear' -

;o)

I've been reading this flash thread with great interest, and after
reading Fortune's post (& wishing I'd been able to write something
like that) I decided to share my tuppence worth

site url: www.exmoor.tv

i'm a little shy to do this, as I know there are several things
wrong with this site, ie; the flash part 'does' take a long time to
load.  But when you consider the amount of data that is downloaded and
the fair manner in which its displayed, the download seems to be a
small sacrifice.  The users feedback would agree with that also, they
seem to love having something to play with.

In creating this site we were trying to get away from the usual
alphabeticising of the hotels.  As the client had decided a hotel's location should be more important than its name.  So we
decided on a map.  This is my first 'real' effort with flash, and
I have learnt heaps more since, and yes theres a mountain of things
I'd do differently if there was the budget to do it again.  (Which
hopefully won't be too far away in the future).

I'm the first one to be annoyed and put off by sites that are
obviously about showing the rest of the world how talented the designer is.

But in the right place, flash can do what standard HTML hasn't a hope
of acheiving.  eg; the map on www.exmoor.tv - (the site is getting a
little old and is in need of a revamp) to get to the flash bit, click
on the 'Exmoor Accommodation' or 'Exmoor Things To Do' drop down list and
choose an option.

I'd like to think that this was an appropriate use of flash.  All
critisim gratefully received.  (please excuse my poor spelling)

 bfn
 Kristina


Friday, April 20, 2001, 5:18:01 PM, you wrote:

FE> hiya deke!

FE> you know, i make both flash pages and .asp and static pages. why you choose
FE> one has to do with your client's demographic, the desired site
FE> functionality, etc. i don't think you can just dismiss flash out of hand,
FE> although it is widely abused, even by some of its more famous proponents.

FE> since flash in some form or another is nearly ubiquitous on consumer
FE> machines and well-represented behind the corporate firewall, i feel the
FE> download problems are overstated. you may disagree of course. <Grin> and
FE> certainly almost all newer machines with newer browsers come with flash
FE> pre-installed. but on those machines without flash, if people want the
FE> info/infotainment, they will do the download, which is after all, quite
FE> small and goes quickly even on 56 connections. i'm constantly surprised at
FE> what people will download to see the singing frogs or whatever their best
FE> friend emailed them about. <Grin> 

FE> since the motown site was mentioned, let's talk about that. the client made
FE> the decision that they had a flash demographic. the client knows to whom its
FE> selling what. if i'm trying to sell music to teenage boys, you bet i'm gonna
FE> ask the designer for an obnoxious flash site with all the cliches of blaring
FE> techno music, anime-type cartoon art, small video clips of scantily clad
FE> girls on skateboards, etc. (*not* that the motown site fits this
FE> cliche....<Grin>)

FE> i respect jakob n., but you can't as a designer sit on your cloud and tell
FE> your clients that actually they are selling x and need to present it as y
FE> because the usability experts said z. web usability experts don't drive the
FE> client's overall marketing and ad campaign, right? the website is just a
FE> small part of that and needs to fit in with that as much as the web's
FE> technical limitations will allow; i think everyone still in business now
FE> agrees with this. <Grin>god knows, if the client comes to you and says "i
FE> want flash," you give them flash or your competitor will! it's not like
FE> kioken twisted motown's arm and signed the check for motown! <Grin>

FE> there are good reasons for using flash too. it does allow you to do some
FE> sophisticated things in a very small amount of code; it is possible to make
FE> attractive sites that download quickly. in general, i can make a flash page
FE> that does more than a standard html page and which downloads in about 1/3
FE> the time. also, now that flash 5 allows you to include external text files
FE> with html, i can easily update content in my flash movie by just changing
FE> the text file. finally, flash lets me escape from the stupid browser wars
FE> and conflicting DOMs and poorly implemented standards. 

FE> you say that flash 5 doesn't work on the latest devices shown at comdex, but
FE> good lord, it seems like every device has its own browser, its own
FE> implementation -- it makes dealing with the desktop browser wars look fun.
FE> when i make a flash page i know it will run on every device that supports
FE> flash in the same way, from the iPaq to the now-dead Audrey to the latest
FE> desktop machine running whatever. what a relief! <Grin>

FE> while the various usability experts fulminate against flash, i must say that
FE> consumers are voting with their mice -- they do seem to *like* flash and
FE> generator sites. *many people like* to see the widget whirl and hear the
FE> music. some don't, but the vast majority appear to, and they email 'em all
FE> around to each other. clients love that, when they hear sally emailed the
FE> site URL to joe because "it's cute & fun."

FE> flash is just a tool; it's appropriate for some things, and not for others.
FE> but if those who pay the bills want the flash site, i'd inform them
FE> objectively and coolly of what it takes, tell 'em i'd be happy to do it, and
FE> then if they still want it, build it and take that cash. if the clients
FE> truly seem clueless and turn to you for advice, then you have to go back and
FE> ask, "who's your audience?" "what are you telling them?" they need to know
FE> that before they make any kind of website, right?

FE> finally, as my husband, a creative director in a big big big madison avenue
FE> type place constantly sez: "nowadays, everything has unfortunately become
FE> advertising. this makes the idea more important than ever. what are you
FE> communicating and to whom?" i think many websites fail not because they
FE> don't have proper usage of ALT, but because they aren't saying anything to
FE> anyone, or worse, they are just talking to themselves. and this is my final
FE> condemnation of most flash sites: they *are* just talking to themselves.

FE> jes' my 2 rupees,

FE> f



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