[thelist] IE - The claret (white dotted line) on clickable images

[MRC]

.jeff,

> used by itself this could be quite damaging to accessibility.  sure, i can
> tab through all the links in the page, i just can't tell which one i'm on.
> ;p

    ergo my suggestion that other visual cues can be provided to indicate
which element currently has focus...

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > and by using the CSS :active pseudo class, for instance,
> > you can still indicate focus by other means.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> in tandem with this technique, however, at least the sighted keyboard
surfer
> can still get a feel for where they're at.

    AFAIK, the dotted outline is only useful to the sighted. Keep in mind
that focus is maintained as it would be otherwise, sans the dotted outline,
so that any screen reader that provides feedback based on the focused
element should function normally (admittedly, I haven't tested it, but
theoretically it shouldn't create a problem).
    As you mentioned in another post, using the blur() method is the
absolute worst way to remove the dotted line (alas, a suggestion I once made
myself several years ago before I realized the ramifications). The hidefocus
property has drawbacks, but focus-bouncing is not one of them.

> this begs the question though - why are we trying to alter visual cues
that
> the user is already used to seeing in other aspects of computer use?  if
> they're used to seeing dotted lines around focused elements in other
> applications, why does it make sense to change that on the web simply
> because the designer doesn't like how it "destroys the look of the site"?

    In web design, I have come to the conclusion that there are almost
always exceptions to even the best of rules. By definition, an exception
should occur a minority of the time. The problem isn't so much in breaking a
sound rule, but in breaking it carelessly or in a way that is unnecessarily
destructive (e.g., using the blur() method). Rules are usually rules for
very good reasons, and most often rules are broken carelessly, and often in
ignorance of the consequences.
    One *possible* scenario for removing the dotted line around an element:
you have several linked images that represent buttons on a button bar in a
web-based application. Many standard applications don't provide keyboard
access to the buttons on button bars, and thus don't place a dotted border
around a button when it is clicked. If you have provided sufficient menu
options and accesskeys for keyboard users, removing the dotted focus line
around a button -- and even removing keyboard access to the buttons -- could
be considered sound since the web-based application will function much more
consistently with standard applications. Whether this is actually true would
likely depend on the particular web-based application and its design. But it
is one potential case where removing the focus line might be reasonable.
    Also keep in mind that if every browser fully supported CSS 2,
removing -- or modifying -- the focus outline would be as simple as adding
hover effects. Likely, this will be the case within a browser generation or
two. We know that simply having the ability to do something doesn't mean
that we should -- and communities like Evolt can help a developer to
determine whether breaking a particular rule really does make sense after
all.

> i never doubted your stance on the subject.

    Thanks. :)

James Aylard