[thelist] Jumping In With Both Feet

Ben Dyer ben_dyer at imaginuity.com
Tue Dec 11 14:13:36 CST 2001

On 12:39 PM 12/11/2001, david currey said to me:
>on 12/11/01 6:11 PM, martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com at 
>martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> > See, my point is, I don't accept that there's that kind of difference.
>the difference is that we could develop sites/online experiences easier and
>more quickly, spend less time dealing with potty cross browser issues and
>more time on being creative, and in the long run for the end user, better
>(read as "different").

Here's the problem.  If everybody in the entire world decided, yes, I'll 
upgrade to MSIE 6.0 or Netscape 6.2 tomorrow, it still wouldn't help you 
long term.  What will happen the next time the next stupendous wonderful 
thing comes out?  Same problem all over again...and again...and again...and 

You have to look at benefit for the user.  "Being creative," as you define 
it, involves moving beyond the boundaries of where users currently are, and 
users don't want to do that.  No amount of whiz-bang whatevers is going to 
convince them otherwise, either.  Eventually, if you continue increasing in 
creativity, you will eventually outpace your audience, even if, currently, 
you feel that the majority of what you perceive to be your audience can see 
your site.

That probably doesn't make any sense.  It didn't make a whole lot of sense 
to me... :)

> > when I have a perfectly
> > good cake in my cake tin at home... hey, it's still cake. I'm happy.
> >
>I think what some people are trying to say, and how I definitely
>feel , is that as developers we are ****** off enough at having to keep
>baking our cakes for nn4.x after so many years of grief, without them
>releasing "new" mouldy cake last week, that end users think is fresh and
>tasty- hence prolonging the afore mentioned developer grief for the
>forseeable future :(.

Here's the problem: users can't distinguish and don't appreciate the 
differences between good cake and bad cake.  They want cake, but they don't 
want the process of getting cake to be a big deal, it doesn't matter how 
good the cake looks.

Besides, for most bakers...er...designers, the cake that they consider 
moldy is perfectly fine to users (again, they can't appreciate the 
differences anyway -- I think the analogy of good cake to moldy cake is 
bad, it's probably closer to a bride's cake versus a groom's cake in 
American cultures, one is incredibly extravagant, the other usually kind of 
plain but tastes good).  Remember, not everybody has seen all of the cakes 
you've baked. (OK, this is reeeeaally extending the metaphor here...)

If *you* think it looks tired and worn-out, it's because you spend hours 
and hours designing for one project (not saying it's a bad thing, I know it 
just happens) and when you get to the end of the project, the results no 
longer look fresh and exciting to you.

It's about perspective.  Once in a while, you have to look at someone 
else's perspective.  Designers and programmers need to be looking at the 
user's perspective all the time, lest they lose focus of the ultimate goal: 
creating a web site for the users.

Anyways, this is all the more I'll contribute to this thread.  At this 
point, most everybody probably has their mind made up. :)


Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
Condemant quod non intellegunt. | Falso en uno, falso en omnibus.

More information about the thelist mailing list