[thelist] Is Java dead ? (was Evolt Hiermenus?)

Warden, Matt mwarden at mattwarden.com
Thu Mar 7 21:32:03 CST 2002

On Mar 8, Andrew Forsberg had something to say about Re: [thelist] Is Java...

>>Even with Java, you can get different versions of JDK. Besides, what do you
>>mean "standardized" -- try sending an email in Java for instance. It is not
>>unusual to have to plug additional "components" such as Java Mail, JAF, Java
>>Help etc.
>I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of Java -- from an
>outsider's p.o.v. it appears to be less open to dependency problems.
>Heck, that's the message Sun on the Java banner they wave: 'Write
>once, run anywhere.' Are these Java 'components' classes you include?
>or are they compiled into the Java VM? I don't find including classes
>an inconvenience.

He just means that there are different versions of Java, just as there are
different versions of JavaScript, ASP, etc. When you're dealing with
client-side applications, as I'm sure you know, the version on the client
can be very important.

>>I'd rather have a simple base, and then plug in or out whatever I need.
>True, the GD library is a good point -- I don't really like its
>results, and much prefer netpbm. It also carries a performance hit
>for all the other hosted sites which don't use GD, hence hosts'
>reluctance to rebuild php with it. *But* there is an increasing
>number of open source projects which require PHP built with the GD
>library. That is what annoys me about plug-in functionality -- not
>having control over what's plugged in (yes, of course one can always
>run one's own server, or re-write the code to use alternatives).

I think what you're trying to say is that, for a given "plug

1. with php, certain things need to be installed at the system level
2. with java, one can import the plug-in classes directly, assuming you
have the ability to add them to the classpath on the system (which is a
lot easier than installing a componant)

so, in other words, for a given plugin, php may require you yo get your
host to install a componant (which may or may not be possible), while java
requires minimal system change whcih can be handled by you, the developer
(most likely)

>Apologies for just throwing an unjustifiable opinion into the mix... :)

The "dead parrot sketch" is Monty Python's Flying Circus's best sketch.

there. now we're even.


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