From thelist at lists.evolt.org Mon May 20 00:02:00 2002 From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester) Date: Mon May 20 00:02:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday May 13, 2002 Message-ID: <200205200501.g4K51BgT027833@leo.evolt.org> The tip harvest for the Week of Monday May 13, 2002 has been added to the lists.evolt.org site. Get it at: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20020513.html Week at a glance listing at: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/week/c/Week-of-Mon-20020513.html Search the tips at: http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/ Harvest Summary --------------- Number of messages: 438 Number of tips : 35 Tip Authors ----------- .jeff (3) Adam (1) Andy Warwick (1) Bob Haroche (1) C. Stein (1) Carol Stein (1) chris parker (1) Eric Means (1) J Blanchard (1) Jay Blanchard (1) John Corry (1) John Handelaar (2) Joshua Olson (2) jswiders (1) Judah McAuley (1) Lachlan (1) Mark Gallagher (1) Michael Pemberton (1) Michael Wolfe (1) Michiel Trimpe (2) mwarden (3) Pat Meeks (1) rudy (2) Shoshannah Forbes (1) Stephane Gosselin (1) Wade (2) Tip Types --------- Best quality greyscales on a 300dpi printer (1) browser bugs (1) Client Management (1) ColdFusion (4) Coldfusion (1) Dealing With Clients (1) debugging (1) email etiquette (1) Good Programming Tutorial Site (1) Handling AOL Proxy Caching (1) organization (1) php (1) Port Numbers (1) professional development (1) Search Engines (1) Security & passowords (1) software (4) Spreading The Word on Manners (1) SQL (1) Standard Port Assignments (1) submit (1) Testing with Virtual PC (1) typography (1) Writing for the Web (2) XML (1) Zope (2) From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 01:30:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Mon May 20 01:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] microsoft word for PRINT, not WEB? In-Reply-To: <20020520030243.46604.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01c1ffc6$3c1967f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> hello, i hope this is not OT. can i use microsoft word for printing quality work? lets say i have an image that is at a very high resolution (or can be) and i need to print out as if it were a professional printing job. when i use an ordinary word document, and print it out, the quality is not really that good. the ink for instance is a little blotched. what am i doing wrong, or missing, or can i do better? Word/M$ products in general are terrible for images. Get a nice graphic, put it in Word and the quality goes. You also (or at least I can't!) copy and paste out of Word into something like Fireworks, which is annoying. I'd stay well away from that solution - Word just cannot handle it. How about PDF'ing the image and using the "Print" quality setting in Distiller? Francis From jthomas at firstnet.net.uk Mon May 20 03:07:00 2002 From: jthomas at firstnet.net.uk (Jonathon Thomas) Date: Mon May 20 03:07:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Sending 404 Header in ASP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jon That did the trick nicely... [It's always so damn obvious isn't it!] Cheers -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Sent: 17 May 2002 17:21 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Sending 404 Header in ASP Tried this yet? Response.Status = "404 Not Found" Jon From darren at web-bitch.co.uk Mon May 20 04:05:01 2002 From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren) Date: Mon May 20 04:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Questions In-Reply-To: <000701c1ff5b$82b9b540$4f45fea9@dansk.ca> References: <000701c1ff5b$82b9b540$4f45fea9@dansk.ca> Message-ID: <802368445.20020520100426@web-bitch.co.uk> On Sunday, May 19, 2002 Michele Foster wrote: MF> response.buffer="TRUE" this controls when the output is sent to the page. as matt mentioned this was set to 'false' by default in iis4 which meant that stuff was sent to the page as soon as it was ready. the upside to this is the user sees action as soon as they can. the downside is that if you want to redirect the user to another page halfway through your code, you'll get a 'headers have already been sent to the page' type error. for best performance set this to 'true' and use response.flush if you want to show something to the user. MF> response.cachecontrol="PRIVATE" i think this is trying to tell any proxies that you are handling caching for this page and so they shouldn't. this has a tendency of being ignored by certain proxies. you also might see: Response.AddHeader "pragma","no-cache" Response.AddHeader "cache-control","private" which are also commands to proxies. MF> response.expires="300" MF> response.expiresabsolute=DATE+1 these two and response.cachecontrol are all 'cache buster' settings to try and prevent the page being cached. looks like they are trying to get the page to be reloaded after 5 mins (response.expires="300") and just to make sure then it's definitely expired tomorrow (response.expiresabsolute=DATE+1) take a look at phil paxtons article on learnasp for a bit more info and some links: http://www.learnasp.com/learn/cachenomore.asp MF> Anyone have a good all-encompassing site that one can type in the MF> "control/element" they are looking for and get a definition and various MF> parameters? nope, but let us know if you find one... :> hth, darren. From max at prodok.com Mon May 20 04:52:01 2002 From: max at prodok.com (Max Wyss) Date: Mon May 20 04:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] microsoft word for PRINT, not WEB? In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ffc6$3c1967f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> References: <000f01c1ffc6$3c1967f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Message-ID: Francis, Word is a _wordprocessor_ (and actually, not a bad one at all). However, that is also where the limit lies. Word is NOT layout software ... and definitely not suitable for press applications. Besides looking for something more robust ... Framemaker, InDesign, Quark Xpress coming to my mind ... what can you do to get the least bad results? One thing you can do is letting word do as little to the images it can. This means that you definitely should go for a PostScript/PDF workflow. This also means that you should provide your images in the EPS format. This should prevent Word from messing around with it, as the "real" image data will be inserted when you create the PostScript file (for further processing in Distiller). This should kind of take care of the images. For the printer driver, the standard suggestion is to use the newest version of the AdobePS printer driver for your platform, AND the Distiller PPD. Avoid the Microsoft Postscript printer driver, as it is less advanced ... the AdobePS can be downloaded for free from the Adobe website. Also, make sure that you have always that printer driver/PPD combo selected as active printer driver when you work on your document. Word has a "feature" that it does take the font run length information and other information from the printer driver, and does the line breaking based on that ... as a consequence, it "loves" to reflow your text... One last thing with the Distiller settings: "Print" is for office printer quality. For press print quality, you better use the "Press" settings ... or even better, you ask your service bureau for their Distiller Parameters (which then also would take care of the more specifc prepress settings). Hope, this can help. Max Wyss PRODOK Engineering Low Paper workflows, Smart documents, PDF forms CH-8906 Bonstetten, Switzerland Fax: +41 1 700 20 37 e-mail: mailto:max at prodok.com http://www.prodok.com [ Building Bridges for Information ] ______________________ >hello, i hope this is not OT. can i use microsoft word >for printing quality work? lets say i have an image >that is at a very high resolution (or can be) and i >need to print out as if it were a professional >printing job. when i use an ordinary word document, >and print it out, the quality is not really that good. >the ink for instance is a little blotched. what am i >doing wrong, or missing, or can i do better? > >Word/M$ products in general are terrible for images. Get a nice >graphic, put it in Word and the quality goes. You also (or at least I >can't!) copy and paste out of Word into something like Fireworks, which >is annoying. I'd stay well away from that solution - Word just cannot >handle it. How about PDF'ing the image and using the "Print" quality >setting in Distiller? > From simon at incutio.com Mon May 20 06:21:01 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Mon May 20 06:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] style sheet mime type In-Reply-To: <01c1ffb2$55786660$4c5e1dd1@rudy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520121534.0262ed40@mail.incutio.com> At 23:56 19/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >when a mozilla based browser reads a page with a strict dtd, it will ignore >stle sheet files that aren't delivered with a mime type of text/css > >http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/technotes/incorrect-mime-type >s/ > >when i discovered this a few months ago on my site, i remember running my >page through a service and discovering that my host was sending out css >files with application/xml (duh) > >i thought it was delorie.com's http viewer, but now i'm not sure, because i >don't see the mime type for my style sheets > > http://rudy.ca/darkgreen.css > http://rudy.ca/import.css > >i see content-type, but that's not the same thing, right? > >does anyone know a service that shows the mime type? I use a tool on Mozilla.org : http://webtools.mozilla.org/web-sniffer/ You can give it a URL and it will show you the source of the page, including the full page headers - very handy for debugging content types and seeing what web server a site runs. You can specify the URL to check in the query string (handy for bookmarklets and Mozilla shortcuts): http://webtools.mozilla.org/web-sniffer/view.cgi?url=http://www.mozilla.org HTH, Simon From garizpe at network.com.mx Mon May 20 07:08:01 2002 From: garizpe at network.com.mx (Gustavo Arizpe) Date: Mon May 20 07:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] General purpose MySQL DBM References: <200205200037.g4K0bSl19466@mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <029a01c1ffc2$fa9cc180$0100000a@area> > I don't this to be taken the wrong way, but if you want an Access style interface, use Access. Well, I haven't used Access, and probably never will, but the point of using mainstream commercial software is just what I'm trying to avoid. I've been using FileMaker 3 for years in my Wintel PCs. I don't want to spend on new FileMaker licenses now I'm switching from PC to Mac so I figured out that I'd rather develop something that would fit my needs. But then I thought there should be something ready to use in FreshMeat, HotScripts to let me take advantage of OSX, PHP and MySQL. for my small Intranet. So, instead of running a client DBM interface such as FileMaker or access, I'm planning to use a web browser and PHP/MySQL on one of my OS X boxes. > It is a very large task to build something that will work on all of the platforms > that MySQL offers and still maintain some consistancy. I believe PHP will come to the rescue, and for the mean time some of the projects you suggested will do the job for us. Hopefully we'll see some more ellaborated stuff in the near future. > http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpdbform/ > http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpmybuilder/ > http://sourceforge.net/projects/pfb/ Thanks a lot. Gustavo Arizpe http://www.area.com.mx/estrategica From yogesh at webcottage.com Mon May 20 07:08:06 2002 From: yogesh at webcottage.com (Yogesh) Date: Mon May 20 07:08:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cold Fusion Enterprise Message-ID: <012701c1ffd0$a6f159c0$08c55ecb@drmpuridel3> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] hi i am trying to install coldfusion server 4.5 enterprise (single user edition) on my pws.the installation is successful but after restarting as instructed when i try to access the administrator i cant access it and it gives an error and it says that the error cant be determined as it is encrypted. when i installed CFexpredd edition it all worked fine but this is no i cant open many other cfpages also any suggestions would be welcome thx inadvance cheers Yogesh Bakshi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.webcottage.com "Cost Effective Web solutions" -- From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Mon May 20 07:42:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Mon May 20 07:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Looking for some good scripts... Message-ID: Hello, evolters -- With a little bit of help and perhaps some luck, I may finally open my new Web site tomorrow, only 3 weeks after I originally thought I might. (New newsletter and other projects, unpaid for the most part, intervened.) This is a site for writers, with many features, and although I have spent quite a bit of time searching cgiresouces, phpresources, and so on, I am still having a hard time finding scripts that will do exactly what I want. (Or, very close to it!) This seems like the right place to ask... Preliminaries: [1] I have a virtual domain, but complete control over my CGI-BIN. [2] Our funds are pretty tight (and mostly allocated for traffic-attraction, at this point) [3] Although I have mysql on my site, I WON'T use the single db I'm allowed for ANY of the following (because I suspect we may need itit when it comes time to write the confirmation script & the rest of the fulfillment piece for our "batched subscription publishing" program, which is far more important than the following). (1) I want a simple GUESTBOOK -- it should allow others to see, but not comment on, others' messages before they post, and I want complete control over its appearance. It should allow the admin (me) to delete problematic messages. It should allow posters to post freely (no password, whatever), but review their message before it goes up. And after posting, it should take them to a "thanks" page (one I can completely customize). (2) I want a forum which does NOT require anyone to login to READ messages, is completely customizable (as to appearance), can run a couple threads, requires login (but no DB it doesn't create itself) to POST. Again, Admin (me) should be able to delete problematic postings, with relative ease. It should have a reasonable level of security (enough to make sure no one else is running their board off my site). (3) I want a very simple chat site; one that can support 2-5 at a time. I would e-mail unique user ID's and passwords to both potential participants, removing them after about a month. For now, at least, I can update .htaccess manually, given projected volume for the first months. This chat is ONLY a place where writers can discuss possible contracts with potential employers, in real time, with some security. They would schedule the chat via e-mail. (I'm referring writer to employer in response to an employer's request, so I will assign the user ID & password for the pair, delivering it -- with boilerplate text -- via the same e-mail I use to notify each of them that they may be a match.) (4) I want visitors to be able to post their own URL's, with description (and possibly e-mail address), to a page of them. This script should not require intervention on my part, although I might need to delete an occasional listing. Ideally, it would allow the poster to choose a category before posting. The following aren't needs, exactly, but requests for confirmation/clarification: (4) I have a newsmagazine in a subdirectory on my site. I wanted to have folks be able to comment on the articles there. So far, it seems as if greymatter (which I already downloaded, but haven't yet installed) would work if I put it in its own subdirectory and repeat each article in separate thingies (don't know how gm is actually organized yet, because I haven't seen an installation the way I want to use it). The point is for readers to go here after reading the article (or during? -- links throughout?), write comments with NO HASSLES (no password or ID), but not alter the article. QUESTION: Is greymatter what I want? Or is something else better? (5) I plan to install a Twiki for writers to collaborate. Any comments? Anyone found any problems? By the way, not looking for comments yet, but the site is http://accesswriters.com , for the curious. Thanks very much! Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com Cheers From dan at danromanchik.com Mon May 20 08:12:01 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Mon May 20 08:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Looking for some good scripts... References: Message-ID: <01b201c1ffff$c25de000$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> For the forum, you might have a look at Phorum (phorum.org). I've installed it on several sites. It doesn't require logins, it's fairly easy to install and customized once you figure out how to do it, and pretty easy to administer, too. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Romanchik - Web Developer dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Techwatcher" To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:41 AM Subject: [thelist] Re: Looking for some good scripts... > Hello, evolters -- > > With a little bit of help and perhaps some luck, I may finally open my new Web site tomorrow, only 3 weeks after I originally thought I > might. (New newsletter and other projects, unpaid for the most part, intervened.) This is a site for writers, with many features, and > although I have spent quite a bit of time searching cgiresouces, phpresources, and so on, I am still having a hard time finding scripts that > will do exactly what I want. (Or, very close to it!) This seems like the right place to ask... > > Preliminaries: > [1] I have a virtual domain, but complete control over my CGI-BIN. > [2] Our funds are pretty tight (and mostly allocated for traffic-attraction, at this point) > [3] Although I have mysql on my site, I WON'T use the single db I'm allowed for ANY of the following (because I suspect we may need itit > when it comes time to write the confirmation script & the rest of the fulfillment piece for our "batched subscription publishing" program, > which is far more important than the following). > > (1) I want a simple GUESTBOOK -- it should allow others to see, but not comment on, others' messages before they post, and I want > complete control over its appearance. It should allow the admin (me) to delete problematic messages. It should allow posters to post > freely (no password, whatever), but review their message before it goes up. And after posting, it should take them to a "thanks" page (one > I can completely customize). > > (2) I want a forum which does NOT require anyone to login to READ messages, is completely customizable (as to appearance), can run a > couple threads, requires login (but no DB it doesn't create itself) to POST. Again, Admin (me) should be able to delete problematic > postings, with relative ease. It should have a reasonable level of security (enough to make sure no one else is running their board off my > site). > > (3) I want a very simple chat site; one that can support 2-5 at a time. I would e-mail unique user ID's and passwords to both potential > participants, removing them after about a month. For now, at least, I can update .htaccess manually, given projected volume for the first > months. This chat is ONLY a place where writers can discuss possible contracts with potential employers, in real time, with some > security. They would schedule the chat via e-mail. (I'm referring writer to employer in response to an employer's request, so I will assign > the user ID & password for the pair, delivering it -- with boilerplate text -- via the same e-mail I use to notify each of them that they may be > a match.) > > (4) I want visitors to be able to post their own URL's, with description (and possibly e-mail address), to a page of them. This script should > not require intervention on my part, although I might need to delete an occasional listing. Ideally, it would allow the poster to choose a > category before posting. > > The following aren't needs, exactly, but requests for confirmation/clarification: > (4) I have a newsmagazine in a subdirectory on my site. I wanted to have folks be able to comment on the articles there. So far, it seems > as if greymatter (which I already downloaded, but haven't yet installed) would work if I put it in its own subdirectory and repeat each article > in separate thingies (don't know how gm is actually organized yet, because I haven't seen an installation the way I want to use it). The > point is for readers to go here after reading the article (or during? -- links throughout?), write comments with NO HASSLES (no password > or ID), but not alter the article. QUESTION: Is greymatter what I want? Or is something else better? > > (5) I plan to install a Twiki for writers to collaborate. Any comments? Anyone found any problems? > > By the way, not looking for comments yet, but the site is http://accesswriters.com , for the curious. > > Thanks very much! > Carol Stein > techwatcher at accesswriters.com > > > Cheers > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From evolt at gmx.net Mon May 20 08:19:01 2002 From: evolt at gmx.net (Gijs van Tulder) Date: Mon May 20 08:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Looking for some good scripts... In-Reply-To: <01b201c1ffff$c25de000$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> Message-ID: ... but Phorum uses a database. Carol said he didn't want to use a database: > [3] Although I have mysql on my site, I WON'T use the single db I'm allowed for ANY of the following (because I suspect we may need itit > when it comes time to write the confirmation script & the rest of the fulfillment piece for our "batched subscription publishing" program, > which is far more important than the following). I think you should use your database for Phorum. It's easier to administrate than a textfile-based forum. Combining the Phorum-tables with your other applications in one database is no problem. Phorum can use prefixes for the table names, so the Phorum user table will simply be called: phorum_users. Gijs -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dan Romanchik Sent: maandag 20 mei 2002 15:11 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: Looking for some good scripts... For the forum, you might have a look at Phorum (phorum.org). I've installed it on several sites. It doesn't require logins, it's fairly easy to install and customized once you figure out how to do it, and pretty easy to administer, too. Dan From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 08:48:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 08:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] switching to Mac Message-ID: >I preferred PC ONLY because the >Mac (and Apple before that) refuses to give me tools to get to low-level code. There used to be "Norton's Utilities" and when diskettes >went bad (before hard drives were that affordable), you could easily recover [most of] your data by looking at disk sectors and copying >them into memory, for example. Nothing similar for Mac/Apple. At least not that you managed to find. The rest of us found plenty of those tools, including Norton Utilities for the Mac (which has been around since Mac's mid-life). Sedit was around since the appearance of SCSI drives on the Mac; SUM showed up fairly early in the Mac life, as well. Beneath AppleDOS even told you how to write your own such tool for the Apple II, if you were so inclined. The tools existed, just not from the usual PC suspects. I found most of them by hanging around The Mousehole, and early Mac BBS. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 08:58:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 08:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] switching to Mac Message-ID: >I've been noticing also, recently, how incredibly annoying the PC work >environment really is. I think it's because I'm developing on an >unconnected machine, and transferring work to a floppy to upload files. >Wow. Why CAN'T I make a list of what's in the Explorer window? Oh, and I forgot to add: If you need to create a text list of all the files in a directory, type "dir >> list.txt" in an MS-DOS command window (after cd-ing to the directory you want to list) and you'll get your list in a text file named "list.txt". If you want the listing to include all subdirectories, use "dir /s >> list.txt" instead. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From roselli at earthlink.net Mon May 20 09:08:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon May 20 09:08:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design Message-ID: <200205201407.g4KE76kx015190@leo.evolt.org> http://www.editorandpublisher.com/editorandpublisher/features_colu mns/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1484602 Technology, Efficiency Can Lead To Blandness By Steve Outing As the Web has gotten more technologically sophisticated, has it become a more bland medium -- especially in online newspapers? -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From martin at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 09:15:01 2002 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Mon May 20 09:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs Message-ID: Sorry, playing catch up here. Dan wrote: > 1) He has to base his peripheral purchases entirely on what is > available with appropriate mac drivers, which seriously limits choice Rarely an issue with USB and Firewire (Firewire is better supported on the Mac side of the house) > 2) His websites have colour problems (though Im sure that could be > tweaked if he could be bothered) Macs have impeccable colour management when set up correctly. If Win machines don't see things correctly, then is that a Mac issue? Possibly... Of course, you can set up a Mac to use Win gamma if you really want. > 3) The choice of software simply isnt available. Sure like everybody > says, Adobe M$ and Macromedia have identical clones on both platforms > but wht about > shareware??? There is no doubt that the range of programs is simply > not available. Suprisingly yes, if not mounted on cover CDs. And of course, with OSX, most anything from the Unix house is available. > Oh and Macs are much more stylish.... though my vaio is cute too Sony wants to be Apple and vice versa, and for good business reasons (simply put, you can't build a lasting advantage on specs or price because you will be beaten. You have to do something different, and both Apple and Sony have gone for 'desirable consumer device') Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From martin at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 09:32:01 2002 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Mon May 20 09:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Mac Message-ID: <4B050365-6BFE-11D6-B5C6-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> Mike wrote: > 1 - Linux is much more reliable and stable than the likes of MS, For client machines, 2k/XP is not bad. Although right now, my OSX box has not had any unscheduled downtime since 1st December (when I moved to OSX). Every restart has been intentional to upgrade the OS (yes, that's not ideal and I know Linux doesn't require it) or the hardware. > 2 - The memory management under Linux is actually 32-bit written by > those > who seem to know what they do, OSX *is* a bit heavy on the memory front. I think it's Aqua that's causing it, and understand that Jaguar (the next evolution in the summer) will be very much better. > 3 - You MUST recieve the complete source code > for the OS (that's Open Source in action), Fine rhetoric, but unless you're able to *do* something with it, it's not that useful. > 4 - If a problem DOES occur, you > have roughly 20,000 usersdevelopers worldwide to send out an SOS, and; > finally, How often does that happen? As I said, on my OSX box, it's not been necessary > 5 - You don't need to re-purchase any computer equipment. Linux > can run on any thing from a 386 up to (and including) some mainframes - > not > that you might wish to purchase a not-so-new 370 from IBM. Depends on what you want it to do - sure the base OS will run, but what are the dependencies above that? fwiw my OSX box is a 2 1/2 year old 300 MHz G3, which is about the limit for OSX. > Also, should you > go and REALLY get a Mac (iMac, PowerPC, etc), MkLinux can run on that > machine, making a cross compatibility unparalleled from any standpoint. I don't think it's the hardware that's in question here. My x-platform network (OSX, WinXP, Win2k and Linux) works wonderfully together. > I don't know what you write; however, with most ALL of the > distributions of > Linux, you get: PHP 4.0.?, Got > Perl v5.??, Got > GCC (the GNU Compiler Collection including - C/C++/OOP/JAVA), Got > Python, Got > Lisp, Got > Curses (a library of pop-up windowing functions), Don't need > the gmake utiloity, Got > along > with the ability to read/write almost any floppy/hard disk on the > planet. Which Macs had a looooong time ago. I also have Zope, Apache, MySQL etc etc etc Apple is now the world's largest seller of Unix systems... > Installation is fairly easy. Depending on the distribution, you can > deal > with a neat screen-handling GUI or a series of pop-up windows based on > the > Curses library. I seem to remember my OSX install went: "Insert CD" Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From dan at danromanchik.com Mon May 20 09:37:02 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Mon May 20 09:37:02 2002 Subject: Fw: [thelist] Alternative to Atomz search Message-ID: <022001c2000b$ade17770$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> Another possibility is www.picosearch.com. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Romanchik - Web Developer dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Mattheis" To: Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] Alternative to Atomz search > Nobody's mentioned Google ... "Free Solutions" listed near the bottom > of http://www.google.com/services/ > -- > > __________________________________________ > - Erik Mattheis > > (612) 377 2272 > http://goZz.com/ > > Through June 15 > 9am - 3pm M-F: > (952) 838 7698 > > __________________________________________ > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Mon May 20 09:41:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Mon May 20 09:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design In-Reply-To: <200205201407.g4KE76kx015190@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <003901c2000c$6f4d4e20$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] [watch wrap] http://www.editorandpublisher.com/editorandpublisher/features_columns/articl e_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1484602 [/watch wrap] [/snip] quote... "The typical content management system offers "layout tools, not design tools." He says that template page creation offered by content management systems will seldom suffice from the designer's perspective; they can't offer anywhere near the page-design capabilities of software tools like DreamWeaver (for Web pages) or Quark Xpress (for print)." Why does a CMS offer layout tools? Shouldn't, as I have argued before, a CMS deal with content that can then be delivered via many publishing mediums? Layout tools, as stated here, would narrow the prospects of that unless those tools took many mediums into account. Those tools are "publishing management" not content management. If the author is trying to elicit sympathy for designers who use tools that "can't offer anywhere near the page-design capabilities of software tools like DreamWeaver"....I mean, come on! Jay From genghis at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 09:56:02 2002 From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar) Date: Mon May 20 09:56:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts Message-ID: I'm probably about to migrate an entire managed NT server to a Debian equivalent, hence this question: I remember seeing a webmail server which used the file system and a database for handling accounts, rather than adding potentially thousands of local user accounts. But, I can't remember what it was called. Any ideas from the evoltistas? ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 10:06:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 10:06:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Mac Message-ID: I missed this: > Also, should you > go and REALLY get a Mac (iMac, PowerPC, etc), MkLinux can run on that > machine, making a cross compatibility unparalleled from any standpoint. Ummm, I wouldn't recommend using MkLinux on anything as new as an iMac (any flavor). IIRC there's still a lot of bugs in the USB support, among other things. The purpose of Mklinux (I've been in the MkLinux community for several years now, and we're going to have an actual release version, as opposed to a "pre-release" version Real Soon Now) is to bring Linux to the nu-bus Macs. Anything newer than that has some problems with device support. The release of the IOKits for Darwin was supposed to help that along, but not much has been done yet. Also MkLinux is a great distance behind in Linux Kernels, so anything intended to be compiled on a recent (within the last 18 months) Linux release may not compile. The monolithic Linuces (SuSe, PPCLinux, YDL, etc.) are more up to date, but they don't support the nubus macs. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From hassan at webtuitive.com Mon May 20 10:21:01 2002 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon May 20 10:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts References: Message-ID: <3CE9146F.EF86A65C@webtuitive.com> John Handelaar wrote: > I remember seeing a webmail server which used > the file system and a database for handling > accounts, rather than adding potentially thousands > of local user accounts. > > But, I can't remember what it was called. Any > ideas from the evoltistas? Specifically, no, but this sounds like a job for LDAP -- keeping voluminous user information out of /etc/passwd ... HTH! -- H* Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 -- From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 10:26:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 10:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs Message-ID: OK, one last time: > 1) He has to base his peripheral purchases entirely on what is > available with appropriate mac drivers, which seriously limits choice He's probably limiting himself more than he needs to. For example, the Sony Mini-Disc unit that has a PC (USB-based) interface. If you contact Sony, they will tell you the device doesn't work on a Mac, as they haven't written, and don't intend to write, the drivers for it. What they don't tell you is that the Mac doesn't *need* drivers for it; you just plug it in and it works. This scenario is repeated for a lot of peripherals. As a Mac user, you should get used to distrusting the peripheral manufacturer and instead asking fellow Macheads. This is one of those phantom issues (looks worse than it is) like store availability of Mac software. I find a lot of Mac software in stores in the PC software sections. Game developers especially will sell games on hybrid CD's which will work in both platforms. So the store stocks them in the Windows section, even though the same CD will work on a Mac (says so on the box, even). Went through that recently with someone over clip art. They wanted an image of a flag, I took a look through a couple of books and found one he liked. When I handed him the CD, he said "But this is for Windows." He was right, the CD said Windows, with no mention of a Mac. I had to explain that pictures are pictures (there's a small hitch if the image is WMF, but that's still readable with the right software, so it's not a serious problem, and in this case it was an EPS, anyway). You stick the CD in the drive and open the file, and you'll see. He did. The hardest part about being a Mac user in a Windows shop is the often aggressive hostility shown by the Windows people who refuse to take a even single step towards making anything work. They end up looking like the computing counterpart of the "ugly American" tourist stereotype, refusing to do anything at all to make getting along together easier, and forcing the Mac user to do all the adapting. Fortunately, this isn't hard; in fact it's far easier for the lone Mac user to fit into a Windows shop than for a lone PC user to fit into a Mac shop. (In the latter case, the Mac users usually will make the adjustments to help the PC along, I've found.) Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From genghis at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 10:27:04 2002 From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar) Date: Mon May 20 10:27:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts In-Reply-To: <3CE9146F.EF86A65C@webtuitive.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder > Sent: 20 May 2002 16:21 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts > > John Handelaar wrote: > > > I remember seeing a webmail server which used > > the file system and a database for handling > > accounts, rather than adding potentially thousands > > of local user accounts. > > > > But, I can't remember what it was called. Any > > ideas from the evoltistas? > > Specifically, no, but this sounds like a job for LDAP -- keeping > voluminous user information out of /etc/passwd ... Yeah, but that covers only authentication, not the provision of mail service. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From zaunere at yahoo.com Mon May 20 10:27:10 2002 From: zaunere at yahoo.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon May 20 10:27:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020520152648.11374.qmail@web12804.mail.yahoo.com> A long time ago, and in a galaxy far, far away, I setup squirrelmail/qmail and used http://inter7.com/freesoftware/index.html for virtual users/domains. This can also be done with sendmail's virtual user support. It's been so long, sorry I can't give more detail. Hans Z. New York PHP http://nyphp.org --- John Handelaar wrote: > > I'm probably about to migrate an entire managed > NT server to a Debian equivalent, hence this > question: > > I remember seeing a webmail server which used > the file system and a database for handling > accounts, rather than adding potentially thousands > of local user accounts. > > But, I can't remember what it was called. Any > ideas from the evoltistas? > > ------------------------------------------ > John Handelaar > > T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 > F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com > ------------------------------------------ > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From bill at webmarketingworx.com Mon May 20 10:34:00 2002 From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel) Date: Mon May 20 10:34:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Mac In-Reply-To: <4B050365-6BFE-11D6-B5C6-000502172AD3@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: > I don't think it's the hardware that's in question here. That would be accurate, yes. When I initiated the discussion, it was as a result of having been troubleshooting Windows OS issues for about a week. Mind you this is not my regular job description, but it always comes up as a required extra since the dang things are down so often. Am I the only one who thinks this is completely unacceptable? Definitely, the OS, not the hardware is the issue. BH From roselli at earthlink.net Mon May 20 10:35:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon May 20 10:35:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design In-Reply-To: <003901c2000c$6f4d4e20$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> References: <200205201407.g4KE76kx015190@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <200205201534.g4KFYcPS018593@leo.evolt.org> > From: "Jay Blanchard" [...] > http://www.editorandpublisher.com/editorandpublisher/features_columns/ > article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1484602 [...] > "The typical content management system offers "layout tools, not > design tools." He says that template page creation offered by content > management systems will seldom suffice from the designer's > perspective; they can't offer anywhere near the page-design > capabilities of software tools like DreamWeaver (for Web pages) or > Quark Xpress (for print)." > > Why does a CMS offer layout tools? Shouldn't, as I have argued before, > a CMS deal with content that can then be delivered via many publishing > mediums? Layout tools, as stated here, would narrow the prospects of > that unless those tools took many mediums into account. Those tools > are "publishing management" not content management. If the author is > trying to elicit sympathy for designers who use tools that "can't > offer anywhere near the page-design capabilities of software tools > like DreamWeaver"....I mean, come on! i completely agree with what you are saying, but i had a different perspective when i read that -- it *did* annoy me a bit, but i think the logic behind it is this: - the article states that developers often refuse to implement more than one template or design, and that designers are told to create very generic templates, with little room for true design play... - these designers have no other way to do it if the developers won't do it, as opposed to their previous experience using DW, where they could create all they wanted, and let developers integrate it afterward... framing it from the context of the designer, i see their point, even if their understanding of the tool is flawed... they feel boxed in, and long for the old days of being able to DW out of that box... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From CDitty at email.usps.gov Mon May 20 10:40:00 2002 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty) Date: Mon May 20 10:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I infected or what? Message-ID: <0033000064632511000002L012*@MHS> I have started receiving email bounces from servers saying that I am emailing viruses. I have run Norton Antivirus with the latest definitions and it finds nothing. Can someone look at the headers below and see if there is something fishy? I think there is something up because of the AOL address and the Charter.net addresses. (Addresses X'd out by me.) Neither of these addresses are familiar to me. Also, the /admin/email/phpost.php is me. Anyone? Thanks Chris Return-Path: > Received: from rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (rly-ip01.mx.aol.com [205.188.156.49]) by redhotsweeps.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16434 for >; Mon, 20 May 2002 09:19:47 -0500 Received: from logs-ta.proxy.aol.com (logs-ta.proxy.aol.com [152.163.205.5]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-0520101252; Mon, 20 May 2002 10:12:52 -0400 Received: from Msqdkf (AC98C8EE.ipt.aol.com [172.152.200.238]) by logs-ta.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g4KE0EE136101 for >; Mon, 20 May 2002 10:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 10:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205201400.g4KE0EE136101 at logs-ta.proxy.aol.com > From: postmaster > To: webmaster at redhotsweeps.com Subject: Undeliverable mail--"RAV Web Creations Inc. All rights reserved." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=FCSxFP60BArR2anejM341X X-Apparently-From: XXXXXXXXXX at aol.com Status: RO The following mail can't be sent to XXXXXXXX at aol.com: From: webmaster at redhotsweeps.com To: XXXXXXXXXX at aol.com Subject: RAV Web Creations Inc. All rights reserved. The file is the original mail From bill at webmarketingworx.com Mon May 20 10:41:02 2002 From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel) Date: Mon May 20 10:41:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I want to thank everyone who responded to the thread I began a few days ago about switching my studio over to Mac from Win. However, I thought I'd also mention that although the conversation has been grand, it has not left me with a clear idea of which platform works better for a webdever. Not because good ideas have not been mentioned, but because there are so many good points on BOTH sides! Oddly enough, not many (any?) people have attempted to persuade me or anyone else to stick with Windows(!). This is still a tough decision, especially when the motivation behind the switch is to get away from an OS that is troublesome and find one that isn't, and that is also especially well-suited for a small, multiple-hat-wearing web shop. Anyway, thanks again to all for a bunch of stuff to consider. BH From michael at tapinternet.com Mon May 20 10:47:00 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Mon May 20 10:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design References: <200205201407.g4KE76kx015190@leo.evolt.org> <200205201534.g4KFYcPS018593@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CE91A3B.9040501@tapinternet.com> aardvark wrote: > > i completely agree with what you are saying, but i had a different > perspective when i read that -- it *did* annoy me a bit, but i think > the logic behind it is this: > > - the article states that developers often refuse to implement more > than one template or design, and that designers are told to create > very generic templates, with little room for true design play... > > - these designers have no other way to do it if the developers won't > do it, as opposed to their previous experience using DW, where > they could create all they wanted, and let developers integrate it > afterward... > > framing it from the context of the designer, i see their point, even if > their understanding of the tool is flawed... they feel boxed in, and > long for the old days of being able to DW out of that box... > I think part of the reason developers 'refuse' to implement more than one (or two in our case) templates is that you often don't know how much data will be on the screen. Some content may be long, some short. To keep everything 'boring' may infuriate some designers, but the reason a system is being implemented in the first place is that there's too much for the people to handle on a timely basis by hand. Ensuring that things *work* as expected, before concentrating on the visual changes for various sections of a site, is always *our* first concern. Hopefully the days are passing when people judge a site *solely* on its looks. I don't think we'll ever get past judging a book by its cover completely, but projects we're involved in tend to *do* more, although the visuals may not be appealing to a designer who is used to being able to tweak every 'page' individually. If someone is going to insist on coming up with an invidual 'look' for each 'page', they may as well stick to doing everything by hand, because there's little or no need for any type of automation system at that point. Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com 734-480-9961 From hassan at webtuitive.com Mon May 20 10:52:01 2002 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon May 20 10:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts References: Message-ID: <3CE91BD2.86D5B420@webtuitive.com> John Handelaar wrote: /* answering my own under-caffeinated response ... */ > > Specifically, no, but this sounds like a job for LDAP -- keeping > > voluminous user information out of /etc/passwd ... > > Yeah, but that covers only authentication, not the > provision of mail service. Ah, yeah, of course, but my (un-stated!) point was that mail servers that support LDAP wouldn't require a local account for the user, and would thus meet your original requirements. And that might help jog someone's memory, or make the search easier, or ... OK, yes, now I'll shut up and go get another cup of coffee ... :-) -- H* Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 -- From ldelahunty at britstream.com Mon May 20 10:58:01 2002 From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty) Date: Mon May 20 10:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I infected or what? In-Reply-To: <0033000064632511000002L012*@MHS> Message-ID: Chris Ditty wrote on 20 May 2002 16:35: I have started receiving email bounces from servers saying that I am emailing viruses. I have run Norton Antivirus with the latest definitions and it finds nothing. Can someone look at the headers below and see if there is something fishy? Hi, Part of the way some new viruses operate is to spoof the email account that the virus is being sent from. One cunning trick used is to send an email from Person A, but use email address of Person B (that may have been found in person A address book). A victim gets the message and lets the sender know that they had a virus (Person B), but it wasn't them! Anyway, try an online scan at http://housecall.antivirus.com/ Obviously you'll need a nice fast or free connection to bother... Kind regards, Liam Delahunty :: Tune In :: Drop Down :: Game On :: http://www.corx.co.uk/ From judah at wiredotter.com Mon May 20 11:02:01 2002 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Mon May 20 11:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Webmail app without local system accounts References: <20020520152648.11374.qmail@web12804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CE91D9E.8080707@wiredotter.com> Hans Zaunere wrote: > A long time ago, and in a galaxy far, far away, I setup > squirrelmail/qmail and used http://inter7.com/freesoftware/index.html > for virtual users/domains. This can also be done with sendmail's > virtual user support. It's been so long, sorry I can't give more > detail. I use qmail and vpopmail/sqwebmail to do virtual user/domains. I works quite well. Inter7.com is a good place to start looking (as well as qmail.org) I can also recommend Inter7 for any migration/implementation issues you have as well. I'm used them before for installs and I'm about to hire them again for a migration that I don't have time to do myself. Vpopmail runs under a single "real" user account and keeps track of all the virtual domains under its username. You can use db or file system authentication and you can also build in nifty features like roaming user profiles that allow temporary SMTP relay access after a POP authentication. SqWebMail is an ok web-based mail client. It's not very pretty, but it does run. Hope this helps, Judah From roselli at earthlink.net Mon May 20 11:13:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Mon May 20 11:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design In-Reply-To: <3CE91A3B.9040501@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <200205201612.g4KGCFPS020092@leo.evolt.org> > From: Michael Kimsal > > I think part of the reason developers 'refuse' to implement more > than one (or two in our case) templates is that you often > don't know how much data will be on the screen. Some content may be i tend to agree, but as i sit on both sides of the fence, i build designs and templates to handle, ideally, in infinite amount of data, or the amount of data contained within the bounds of the content system behind said template... > long, some short. To keep everything 'boring' may infuriate some > designers, but the reason a system is being implemented in the first > place is that there's too much for the people to handle on a timely > basis by hand. > > Ensuring that things *work* as expected, before concentrating on the > visual changes for various sections of a site, is always *our* first > concern. agreed... as it was with my own CMS implementation(s)... > Hopefully the days are passing when people judge a site *solely* > on its looks. I don't think we'll ever get past > judging a book by its cover completely, but projects we're involved in > tend to *do* more, although the visuals may not be appealing to a > designer who is used to being able to tweak every 'page' individually. i've often found that the case... you have to balance between usability/utility and eye candy... a difficult line to walk, often... > If someone is going to insist on coming up with an invidual 'look' for > each 'page', they may as well stick to doing everything by hand, > because there's little or no need for any type of automation system at > that point. i think building templates per type of document is very effective... my own company site (algonquinstudios.com) uses 8 templates depending on the type of content (case study vs. press release vs. generic document, etc.), and that same content is shared by a sister site (quantumcms.com) which has an additional 5 templates on top of the content... and then i'm adding another sister site which will have another 5 or so templates... ideally, creating multiple templates should be handled after you know the extremes they'll have to support... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Mon May 20 11:13:12 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Mon May 20 11:13:12 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE can't resolve virtual hosts but Opera can [was RE: Apache vhost on win2k] In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020518125330.00a9e660@mail.idirect.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520120453.00ad27b0@mail.idirect.ca> I discovered what the problem was that I was having. There was little problems with my config file but when fixed IE 5.5SP2 couldn't reach the virtual hosts yet Opera and Netscape do. Why is this? Doesn't IE work with name based virtual hosts or must a server path be used? Peter Kaulback In the hour of 07:57 PM 5/18/2002 +0200, Gijs van Tulder spoke this: >Some more information: >That Apache confuses Site1 with localhost, is normal. If no virtual host >with that name is given, the first virtual host is used. When you request >'localhost', that virtual host is not found and 'site1' is used. You should >configure another virtual host, called 'localhost', to correct this. > >Gijs > >-- >But win2k confuses Site1 with localhost and won't even allow for Site2, it >only attempts to connect to the internet. >What have I left out is bugging me to no end. >Any ideas? > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 From colspan at jerkvision.com Mon May 20 11:13:17 2002 From: colspan at jerkvision.com (Colin Mitchell) Date: Mon May 20 11:13:17 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The hardest part about being a Mac user in a Windows shop is the often > aggressive hostility shown by the Windows people who refuse to take a even > single step towards making anything work. They end up looking like the > computing counterpart of the "ugly American" tourist stereotype, refusing > to do anything at all to make getting along together easier, and forcing > the Mac user to do all the adapting. Fortunately, this isn't hard; in fact > it's far easier for the lone Mac user to fit into a Windows shop > than for a > lone PC user to fit into a Mac shop. (In the latter case, the Mac users > usually will make the adjustments to help the PC along, I've found.) > I've been lurking on this debate for a few days now, and this bit caught my interest. I think this is a little bit derogatory towards "Windows people", whomever they may be. I'd say that the only experience I've had close to this was the exact opposite - working in a Mac shop where NO ONE wanted anything to do with a PC, or Linux for that matter. As a worker in that environment, I got no support when it came to using a PC, or in implementing a Linux server to take the place of some fairly shaky Mac fileservers. Anyway, my point is this - use what you want. I've had decent success with both PCs and Macs, and I've had headaches galore with both of them too. If the people around you aren't the helpful type, you're on your own. I feel like I owe a tip: those of you who have a bunch of computers and are tired squeezing a bunch of monitors, keyboards, etc, etc, into your cramped workspace -- go get a KVM switch! basically it's a box that connects one set of a keyboard/mouse/monitor to a whole bunch of computers, and then you can toggle between them with either a button on the box or a keyboard command. i'm sure a lot of you already use KVM switches, but i just discovered them, and i'm in love with the reclaimed deskspace (which, sadly, is now littered with papers and books instead of a keyboard and mouse) From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Mon May 20 11:15:01 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Mon May 20 11:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I infected or what? Message-ID: <63.bc3a0ca.2a1a7af5@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] If you have been getting messages from servers that have bounced email they *think* is from you, chances are very good that you have received an infected email to, the emails have an attachment, some random file. If you scroll down and read the headers of the email you have gotten that is infected, you can see the actual email address that the email came from. I have gotten several of these infected emails from people (as well as bounced server messages) and I have emailed them to tell them that THEY are infected, and they should do something about it. This virus going around right now which is doing these things is the Klez virus. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html Nan Smith > > I have started receiving email bounces from servers saying that I am > emailing > viruses. I have run Norton Antivirus with the latest definitions and it > finds > nothing. Can someone look at the headers below and see if there is > something > fishy? > > > > > Hi, > > Part of the way some new viruses operate is to spoof the email account that > the virus is being sent from. One cunning trick used is to send an email > from Person A, but use email address of Person B (that may have been found > in person A address book). A victim gets the message and lets the sender > know that they had a virus (Person B), but it wasn't them! From judah at wiredotter.com Mon May 20 11:29:02 2002 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Mon May 20 11:29:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design References: <003901c2000c$6f4d4e20$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> Message-ID: <3CE9241E.1070808@wiredotter.com> Jay Blanchard wrote: > Why does a CMS offer layout tools? Shouldn't, as I have argued before, a CMS > deal with content that can then be delivered via many publishing mediums? > Layout tools, as stated here, would narrow the prospects of that unless > those tools took many mediums into account. Those tools are "publishing > management" not content management. If the author is trying to elicit > sympathy for designers who use tools that "can't offer anywhere near the > page-design capabilities of software tools like DreamWeaver"....I mean, come > on! I've been writing a CMS for a several months now and we just recently started to sell it commercially. I put in content, layout, and design tools. Why? Because most folks who are looking for something a bit less than Vignette don't want a pure CMS, they want to be able to produce and manage a website. And that involves more than just content management. So I built in tools to change the look and feel of the templates. I built a tool to allow users to upload their own templates that were created in Dreamweaver. All the design tools that I built in, combined, still don't give you the pure design power you get by using a designer and an FTP account. But, on the other hand, people still get alot of flexibility and they get a whole solution in one package. Which is an ok tradeoff for many people. Perhaps you're right to call it Publishing Management instead Content Management, but I think its a semantic argument that most consumers don't want to get into. I do everything possible to seperate content and design in my system and that's definitely the right way to do it. But those ideals also have to be tempered with concerns like simplicity, cost-effectiveness, and ease of use. So we make comprimises and the designers bitch and the devlopers bitch and the writers...well you get the idea. And I will admit that my system doesn't allow for different templates on each page. People have been after me about that one and I've promised to put that in a future version. I, however, would never spend much time on a site that had a different design for every page. I do understand that designers like to work and many of them get paid by the design so it encourages them to suggest a new design per section of the site. CMS's are probably reducing the amount of work available to them. Hopefully as the market matures, we'll find a happy medium between design tools and content management that makes everybody happy. We shall see. Make sure that you don't make your product too perfect. People like to be able to find flaws and complain about them. It makes them feel superior. Just try to make sure that the flaws are superficial and can be easily avoided. From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Mon May 20 11:48:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Mon May 20 11:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design In-Reply-To: <3CE9241E.1070808@wiredotter.com> Message-ID: <005c01c2001e$426b43a0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] I've been writing a CMS for a several months now and we just recently started to sell it commercially. I put in content, layout, and design tools. Why? ... they want to be able to produce and manage a website. And that involves more than just content management. ..... Perhaps you're right to call it Publishing Management instead Content Management, but I think its a semantic argument that most consumers don't want to get into. [/snip] Maybe it should be called Web Site Management, integrating Content Management tools with Publishing Management tools. :) While many consumers do not want to make the distinction, there are some that will. They are the consumers who will use a CMS to hold/manage content for print, web, wireless, presentations, etc. [snip] So we make comprimises and the designers bitch and the devlopers bitch and the writers...well you get the idea. [/snip] Having "uploadable" templates is a cool and scalable feature which further reinforces my point that CMS has nothing to do with making web sites bland, people do. Everyone will still bitch though, I'm sure! Thanks! Jay "Give a man a program, frustrate him for a day. Teach a man to program, frustrate him for a lifetime." From evolt at melvin-isken.de Mon May 20 11:52:01 2002 From: evolt at melvin-isken.de (Melvin Isken) Date: Mon May 20 11:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE changes MIME-Type? Message-ID: <3CE945A3.24344.642B11@localhost> [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Hi! I?m working on my upload script with php. It is ready for use - I thought. I tested it with Mozilla 1.0 and Opera 5 and it worked fine but then I testet it with IE 6 and theres a problem: IE seems to change the MIME- Type of the uploaded files. In the script I got a function to limit the filetypes: if(uploadedfile_type!="image/gif") echo "wrong filetype" and so on. If I try to upload the file "cnn.gif" with Mozilla and Opera they do it but with IE I get the message "wrong filetype" Why? Thanks Melvin From michael at tapinternet.com Mon May 20 11:54:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Mon May 20 11:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design References: <200205201612.g4KGCFPS020092@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CE929F4.8040301@tapinternet.com> aardvark wrote: > i think building templates per type of document is very effective... > my own company site (algonquinstudios.com) uses 8 templates > depending on the type of content (case study vs. press release vs. > generic document, etc.), and that same content is shared by a > sister site (quantumcms.com) which has an additional 5 templates > on top of the content... and then i'm adding another sister site > which will have another 5 or so templates... Perhaps I misspoke earlier about the template issue - or at least how we use the terminology. In our design approach, a 'template' is the overarching header/footer and menu layout. That is almost always the same on every page. The 'content' area (middle page) is generally different based on the area. Similar to what you mentioned above: "press releases" have one content-template, "discussion forums" have another, and so on. The truly frustrating part is dealing with designers on some projects who want to move things around completely. "Well, we're in the press release area, so I think the menu should be gone, because someone might want to print a press release." "Oh, on the secondary inside news pages of archived articles we should make the footers bigger." As you (or someone else?) suggested before though, designers get paid to 'design', and in the projects I've worked on they rarely even implemented. Just designed. And when a design was questioned/challenged by someone so utterly devoid of creativity as a (*gasp*) "coder", they just couldn't handle it. Too many designers that I've worked with have treated a client's website project as another page of their portfolio, instead of looking to address the client's needs. Being primarily involved in the coding aspect, it's often easier to quantify things we do for clients into dollars and cents ("reduced ordering time by 40%, saving $x") and it's often much harder to quantify/justify *multiple* designs. It didn't used to be the case - clients liked seeing lots of whizzy graphics/pictures up on the internet to show their friends. What I'm seeing now though is that people are being forced to look at the bottom line now, and while minimalist, low bandwidth, cross-platform designs are cheaper and increase the bottom line, it's harder for "web designers" (using the term loosely) to fit into this shifting model. Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com 734-480-9961 From headlemur at clearskymail.com Mon May 20 11:57:00 2002 From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur) Date: Mon May 20 11:57:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs References: Message-ID: <004d01c2001f$3a8e84c0$0400a8c0@clearskybroadband.com> > Oddly enough, not many (any?) people have attempted to persuade me or anyone > else to stick with Windows(!). As a developer what you design/develop in is a non issue. There are pros and cons to every platform/OS setup. I really wanted to spend my life in my bathrobe coding websites and watching the money roll in. That went right the window in about 3 months. One of the first things you learn in this business is your clients do not build websites for a living. They do other stuff with computers. The web is just another icon on their screens. I have been doing websites for 5 years and I have yet to have a client on the Mac platform, running their business. But that is just me in my market segment. The primary reason to stick with windows is for your clients, and all the ugly nasty business that such a decision entails. It is an ugly business and will consume an inordinate amount of time. Sheer numbers point out that windows has more of the desktops than any other OS. From hardware to software to pixels on the screen, you are the computer god to most small business owners. You have sold them on a website to expand their marketing opportunities. To do this you have demonstrated the power and reach a website can give them. At this point you have gone from being a developer/designer to computer consultant. Ask yourself how many times have you showed your client how to change their resolution, screen size, use the defrag utility, how to reply to sender, cut and paste, attach files, and suggest hardware, software changes? You are on your way to being a marketing consultant. Having gotten their website up, and taught them that they need to respond to these pre-qualified sales leads, the assumption that somebody else will handle their in house computer problems, crashes, viruses, connectivity, is not in my experience based in reality. You will be the one they call. There is certainly no case to be made for windows as an OS over Mac, Linux, or Unix other than what your clients are using. the head lemur News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/ Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/ Standards: http://webstandards.org Community: http://www.evolt.org From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 12:05:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 12:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Macs Message-ID: >I've been lurking on this debate for a few days now, and this bit caught my >interest. I think this is a little bit derogatory towards "Windows people", >whomever they may be. "Whomever" is Windows users. You could be right. This was a generalization drawn from the first-person experience of being a Mac user in a Windows shop, and from anecdotal evidence gathered from several sources (including being a consultant to Mac users in other Windows shops) and, as with all such generalizations, cannot not be applied with justice to 100% of the class, though I'm afraid I'm still convinced it exists in the majority of cases, and perhaps even the vast majority of cases. To any who feel I have unfairly derogated them, I offer my apologies. In my experience, the Mac/Windows choices are all too often made on emotional (as opposed to rational or technological) grounds, which is probably what accounts for the hostility; a counter choice is seen as a personal challenge, because of the lack of more objective basis for the original choice. My personal preference is for diversity; I think the less your company relies upon a single OS, the less likely a defect in any OS will do significant damage to you. It's axiomatic in biology that a diverse gene pool helps to ensure survival of the community; I think the same applies to computing. Yes, that means that while I prefer Mac, I have specified in the past, and expect to continue in the future to specify Windows and various Unices for projects. I think it was Dvorak who once proposed that companies no longer supply computers to their employees. Instead, they define some widely-known standards for networking (such as TCP/IP, NFS. CIFS, etc.) and for document formats (such as RTF, or XML -- though the proposal long antedates either SGML or XML) and the employees supply their own computers and work within those standards. The unspoken assumption was, of course, that the lowered costs created by employees supplying their own computers would be passed on to the employees to be used for those computers. It was an intriguing idea, I thought. The unspoken premise is, of course, that the standards chosen are widely implemented. I know a case where a network manager insisted AppleTalk be blocked at every router because it was too "chatty." He was fine with NetBIOS and IPX, both of which are also quite "chatty" in their own right, so I asked for some details on this decision. He produced a network traffic report that showed AppleTalk was 4% of the net traffic, while less than 1% of the devices. I pointed out how most of the AppleTalk traffic came from two DEC machines with misconfigured print queues, and showed him how after correcting the VAX print queues the AppleTalk traffic levels would drop down below the "normalized" levels for either IPX or NetBIOS. He corrected the queues, but continued to use the original traffic report to justify his decision to block AppleTalk; he wasn't interested in solving his bandwidth problem (I showed him how to do that, too, but that didn't fit his agenda); he simply wanted to eliminate the Macintoshes from the company using fair means or foul. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From cjoseph at ideadesigners.com Mon May 20 12:53:01 2002 From: cjoseph at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Mon May 20 12:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Digital asset management systems - was (Content Publishing...) Message-ID: <200205201656.LAA15424@lionel.siteprotect.com> Whilst on this subject has anyone come accross any good open source digital content management systems. We have a client who wishes to sell their digital effects libraries and loops online and the existing sites charge upwards of 55% commision..... Chris. -- Christopher Joseph (IT Manager) mailto://christopher at ideadesigners.com http://ideadesigners.com ICQ 78019724 SMS/Text message from mobile to ICQ +278314278019724 Groove Networks global lookup ref: Christopher Joseph Yahoo IM = josephc_98 From michael at tapinternet.com Mon May 20 13:07:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Mon May 20 13:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Digital asset management systems - was (Content Publishing...) References: <200205201656.LAA15424@lionel.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <3CE93AE0.1080002@tapinternet.com> Christopher Joseph wrote: > Whilst on this subject has anyone come accross any good open source digital content > management systems. We have a client who wishes to sell their digital effects > libraries and loops online and the existing sites charge upwards of 55% > commision..... > Why does it have to be open source? Would not just a decent DCMS that you ran yourself and didn't pay someone commission for be sufficient? Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com 1-866-745-3660 From freda.lockert at btinternet.com Mon May 20 13:20:01 2002 From: freda.lockert at btinternet.com (Freda Lockert) Date: Mon May 20 13:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Switching to Mac Message-ID: >When I initiated the discussion, it was as a result of having been >troubleshooting Windows OS issues for about a week. Mind you this is not my >regular job description, but it always comes up as a required extra since >the dang things are down so often. Am I the only one who thinks this is >completely unacceptable? > No, you're not. I think this is completely unacceptable, too. Downtime because of Windows' unreliability was the cause of my switching to Mac almost three years ago. I'd had Windows as my OS since 3.1, and was then on NT4, and the unreliability and futzing needed was growing with each successive 'upgrade'. I'm a sole trader and at the time my business was entirely print design (80% of it still is), and the decision to switch to something more reliable was one of my business's survival. I costed the amount of downtime, and the figures were frightening. Based on the amount of time I was recording on specific computer problems, the investment was returned in six months, and I kept the PC which is now used for web testing. What I'm happiest working with 60 hours a week is far more important to me than what my clients use. Freda From Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com Mon May 20 13:20:10 2002 From: Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com (Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com) Date: Mon May 20 13:20:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Embedding PHP in XHTML files Message-ID: Another option is to simply omit the line ... ... completely (it's not *required* by the specification, and it causes problems with IE, also). Ward Conant Solution Design and Production, IT Services URS - Oak Ridge, TN tel 865.220.8154 fax 865.483.9061 "David Bindel" Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 05/18/2002 11:32 PM Please respond to thelist To: cc: Subject: [thelist] Embedding PHP in XHTML files I'm just now learning PHP, but I'm having a problem on something that should be really simple. Here's my file, test.php: ...

Apparently, the XML declaration on the first line () is messing PHP up: Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_STRING in c:\inetpub\wwwroot\test.php on line 1 When I remove the XML declaration on the first line, the PHP works fine, but I also throw out my XHTML 1.1 compliance with it. Surely someone has run into this problem before and knows how to fix it. Thanks in advance, David Bindel -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Mon May 20 13:21:00 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Mon May 20 13:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Thanks for recommending Phorum... comment on the DOS print tip Message-ID: Well, as it happens I did download Phorum during my long search for a suitable forum. The version I downloaded has its instructions in French, however. Although I took French 4 years in high school, that was more than 30 years ago! Maybe I'll try it anyway, or search for a version with English instructions. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regarding the printing tip for getting a listing of files one could plainly see in an Explorer window: Yes, of course that DOS command will work, but with the same limitations (and none of the advantages) as opening my old XyWrite (for Windows 3.1). At least with XyWrite I can move the cursor (with cursor movement keys) and have the CD command on the command line, then drill down into the full path by pressing F9 (execute command on command line). With the DOS trick, I have to work out (or somehow simultaneously be looking at) the listing so I can figure out (or TRY to figure out!) what the 8-letter version of each part of the full path statement will be. AND, of course, the DOS list will have the same limitations: extensions (of my SHTML or HTML files) corrupt even my careful 8-letter filenames. In short, it's a lot easier with XyWrite, because of path names. And, when I've reached the correct directory, and entered the DIR command for my listing, I have the additional advantage over the DOS method that I'm already in my word processor, so at least I can fix the list names immediately. Cheers -- C. Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Mon May 20 13:23:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Mon May 20 13:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist][ot] Digital asset management systems - was (Content Publishing...) Message-ID: Chris, > Christopher Joseph > (IT Manager) > mailto://christopher at ideadesigners.com > http://ideadesigners.com > ICQ 78019724 > SMS/Text message from mobile to ICQ +278314278019724 > Groove Networks global lookup ref: Christopher Joseph > Yahoo IM = josephc_98 iDeadESigners.com ... Let me guess. Your site is running on Mac hardware, and it's about the dangers of abusing digital signatures? (-; Jonathan. Use Windows? You're a cheapskate? Need to do a bunch of global search-and-replace stuff, but your favorite ultra-mondo code development tool that does it isn't available? You need BK Replace Em. It supports file sets and regular expressions and other cool things. http://www.orbit.org/replace/ I found this program because my favorite text editor, Vim (also free), doesn't do global search and replace. From r937 at interlog.com Mon May 20 13:30:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Mon May 20 13:30:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design Message-ID: <01c2002c$38fa8b60$c3e8059a@rudy> > And I will admit that my system doesn't allow for different templates > on each page. People have been after me about that one and I've > promised to put that in a future version. it's easy, just use alternate stylesheets see http://pretentiousblowhard.org for a good example exactly the same content, delivered in radically different designs if designers have not embraced this strategy, that's their problem rudy From dan at danromanchik.com Mon May 20 13:35:01 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Mon May 20 13:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Thanks for recommending Phorum... comment on the DOS print tip References: Message-ID: <02f801c2002c$ecac96d0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> The file I downloaded has instructions in English, so you must have just picked up the wrong one. It's definitely there, though. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Techwatcher" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 2:20 PM Subject: [thelist] Re: Thanks for recommending Phorum... comment on the DOS print tip > Well, as it happens I did download Phorum during my long search for a suitable forum. The version I downloaded has its instructions in > French, however. Although I took French 4 years in high school, that was more than 30 years ago! Maybe I'll try it anyway, or search for a > version with English instructions. From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Mon May 20 13:41:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Mon May 20 13:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design Message-ID: Funny, I just wrote a long rant (inside my http://accesswriters.com/htmltext.shtml page for writers, about creating Web pages) about how the historical accident that graphic designers/typesetters migrated to/invented the new "profession" of Web design -- how as a secondary effect, that created boring pages. And how, as a subsequent effect, that caused market researchers to decide the Web isn't a tool for selling. Web designed for CONTENT people (writers). Therefore (Web designers = non-content people)=boring Web pages. Yes, I am being provocative. I stand behind everything I say, however. (-8 And for foreigners, I am female -- I know it should be "Carole," but it's not. It's too late for me to explain this to my parents. Cheers Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Mon May 20 13:54:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Mon May 20 13:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Thanks for recommending Phorum... comment on the DOS print tip Message-ID: >Regarding the printing tip for getting a listing >of files one could plainly see in an Explorer window: >Yes, of course that DOS command will >work, but with the same limitations (and none of the >advantages) as opening my old XyWrite (for Windows 3.1). >At least with XyWrite I >can move the cursor (with cursor movement keys) and have >the CD command on the command line, then drill down into the full path by >pressing F9 (execute command on command line). With the >DOS trick, I have to work out (or somehow simultaneously be looking at) the >listing so I can figure out (or TRY to figure out!) what >the 8-letter version of each part of the full path >statement will be. AND, of course, the >DOS list will have the same limitations: extensions >(of my SHTML or HTML files) corrupt even my careful 8-letter filenames. Depends on the version of DOS. With DOS 7 (the underlayment of Win98) the long filenames are right there in the list. Example: JDK12~1 2 06-08-00 9:41a jdk1.2.2 JINI 06-08-00 9:41a Jini MYDOCU~1 06-08-00 9:41a My Documents NETMANAG 06-08-00 9:58a NETMANAG NOTES 06-08-00 10:25a notes OFFICE51 06-08-00 9:41a Office51 PROGRA~1 06-08-00 9:41a Program Files WS_WOR~1 DOC 40,960 01-15-01 8:02a ws_worksheet.doc N2PACT~1 LOG 0 02-19-01 9:06a N2PActiveX.log Likewise, to change directory to the one in the explorer window, simply copy the path from the Explorer window, open the MS-DOS window and type CD ", then paste the pathname (use the toolbar button in the DOS window for paste) then type the closing quote and hit return. Hey presto! you're there. No need to drill down anywhere, just go straight from Explorer to the dos command window to the desired directory. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From ramone at amazoniacelular.com.br Mon May 20 13:56:01 2002 From: ramone at amazoniacelular.com.br (Paulo Guedes) Date: Mon May 20 13:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] (ASP) Connection time measurement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c1fffa$8d3e6cf0$0a8214ac@beles8332> Wade, >Opening connections late and closing them early, as is recommended by >everyone everywhere, is the most efficient all-around, because it takes >advantage of connection pooling and stresses the Web and db server only as >much as is necessary. Thank you very much for your explanation. My doubts about ADO connections are gone. Cheers, Paulo Guedes From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 14:09:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Mon May 20 14:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS Message-ID: <00cd01c20031$a4dc3e50$ccb8b7c7@compaq> Hello all : I already have a solution to this problem, but was wondering wether a more elegant solution could be had. I have a box in CSS. I set its width using PHP (from an random image's width). In my setup previous to this, I had my CSS set up like this : The problem with this was that it would not dissapear when viewed with Netscape 4.x and since that browser has poor support for CSS, the box is not rendered properly. My current solution involves opening up the css file, and appending the box's css definition at the end. What I would like to be able to do is to have PHP search a file for a particular string, and then replace it with whatever I want. I am trying to keep my css file organized into chunks (globals, layout, etc), and my current solution doesn't work well with this. Short of having separate css files, is there a way to have PHP scan a file for a place holder and then replace it with something else? I'm looking for a greymatter-like {{something}} type solution. Any ideas? Regards, Burhan Khalid From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 14:15:00 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Mon May 20 14:15:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] form data gone References: Message-ID: <00e701c20032$6bb67680$ccb8b7c7@compaq> Sounds like a good candidate for a session variable. Don't know CF, so I don't know what the CFML equivalent of a session variable is. You could set it once, and it would be available regardless of back-forward button use. Example flow : //strsv_FirstName = Session Variable for First Name. strsv_FirstName = session("firstname") if (!strsv_firstName) //first time visitor { displayPlainForm() } else { displayFormWithName() } hth, Burhan Khalid From rwd at csi1st.net Mon May 20 14:17:01 2002 From: rwd at csi1st.net (Ron Dorman) Date: Mon May 20 14:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS References: <00cd01c20031$a4dc3e50$ccb8b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <3CE94D32.9040701@csi1st.net> Burhan Khalid wrote: > Hello all : > . . . is there a way to have PHP > scan a file for a place holder and then replace it with something else? I'm > looking for a greymatter-like {{something}} type solution. would something like this help you? $body = str_replace("%uname%", $uname, $body); %uname% = string in file to be replaced $uname = php variable to replace the string $body = the file to search and replace in Ron D. From Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com Mon May 20 14:30:01 2002 From: Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson) Date: Mon May 20 14:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Survey database design for storing responses to multiple-choice q uestions Message-ID: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB57E1A6@FRA-FORMULA> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm designing a database to store responses to an on-line customer survey. One of the design dilemmas I'm running into is how to store responses to "check all that apply"-type multiple-choice questions, where a respondent can choose between all and none of the response choices. I was thinking of something like: --- tblQuestion question_id (pk) question_text tblRespondent respondent_id (pk) name ... tblResponses question_id (pk, fk) respondent_id (pk, fk) response_text (pk) --- But SQL Server barks when setting the primary key on tblResponses that the total size of a primary key cannot exceed 900 bytes (the column datatype of response_text is varchar and the length is 2000, to accommodate for responses to "free-form" questions using textareas). I'm loath to rely on limiting the length of the response_text field to set the primary key to under 900 bytes, since we all know that some important customer will want to write a book and will complain when the ASP code throws an error when inserting the response. How would y'all database gurus approach this issue? --Ben From michael at tapinternet.com Mon May 20 14:36:00 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Mon May 20 14:36:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Survey database design for storing responses to multiple-choice q uestions References: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB57E1A6@FRA-FORMULA> Message-ID: <3CE94FEB.3020909@tapinternet.com> Ben Gustafson wrote: > > tblResponses > question_id (pk, fk) > respondent_id (pk, fk) > response_text (pk) > --- > > But SQL Server barks when setting the primary key on tblResponses that the > total size of a primary key cannot exceed 900 bytes (the column datatype of > response_text is varchar and the length is 2000, to accommodate for > responses to "free-form" questions using textareas). Why not just have an index on question_id and respondent_id? I'm not sure I see the need for a primary key, unless you're meaning that each respondent can answer the same question_id more than once. Even so, just index the fields together (and maybe separately, depending on what you need to do). Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com 1-866-745-3660 From burhankh at hotmail.com Mon May 20 14:40:00 2002 From: burhankh at hotmail.com (Burhan Khalid) Date: Mon May 20 14:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Questions References: <000701c1ff5b$82b9b540$4f45fea9@dansk.ca> Message-ID: Lets see here : [ snip ] > **query_blurbid=session("commentblurbid") > query_IP=request.servervariables("REMOTE_ADDR") > > Most of the above I understand .. just calling in the variables from a form > process. However, I don't understand the one I've starred (**). What's > with the session? I'm having problems with my comments being posted under > the incorrect items .. and I'm guessing this is what might be feeding the > incorrect information. Why use "session" when the items are being passed in > the querystring? > > i.e. yadda.asp?commentblurbid=298 > > Or just pass it hidden and request.form to get the variable in question? > I'm not at all sure why to use "session" and what might else break should I > change it to querystring or hidden. > [ /snip ] Disclaimer : I don't know what bloggin software this belongs to, I'm just responding with my experience with blogging software and ASP Firstly, the commentblurbid is a unique identifier so that the comments (and I suppose its parent article/entry) can be identified. Now, as for the seession part, I think the way it is writting, it is actually *reading* from a stored session variable called "commentblurbid". If you wanted to send it as a hidden item, you would have to find out where it was being set originally, look for a line that has session("commentblurbid") on the left hand side of the equal sign : session("commentblurbid") = somthing You would have to set it here orginally, and then it would be available for that session (or untill your session timesout). I would be careful setting its value somewhere in the middle, and not checking where it was originally set. For more information on sessions and ASP, check out : http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/iisref/html /psdk/asp/iiwauslw.asp hth, Burhan Khalid From mwarden at mattwarden.com Mon May 20 14:40:03 2002 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Mon May 20 14:40:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Survey database design for storing responses to multiple-choice q uestions In-Reply-To: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB57E1A6@FRA-FORMULA> Message-ID: On May 20, Ben Gustafson had something to say about [thelist] Survey... >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >I'm designing a database to store responses to an on-line customer survey. >One of the design dilemmas I'm running into is how to store responses to >"check all that apply"-type multiple-choice questions, where a respondent >can choose between all and none of the response choices. I was thinking of >something like: > >--- >tblQuestion > question_id (pk) > question_text > >tblRespondent > respondent_id (pk) > name > ... > >tblResponses > question_id (pk, fk) > respondent_id (pk, fk) > response_text (pk) >--- depending on your application, you might be able to use a comma-delimited list of response_id's. your referential integrity (by the db, anyhow) is out the door, but it makes it easy to find whether a checkbox should be checked or not (just do an instr() ). it's a bit ugly, bit it's an idea. i dont quite understand your size problem (aren't your id's integers, or no?), so i can't help you there. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Mon May 20 14:44:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Mon May 20 14:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS References: <00cd01c20031$a4dc3e50$ccb8b7c7@compaq> <3CE94D32.9040701@csi1st.net> Message-ID: <013801c20036$81b17580$ccb8b7c7@compaq> [ snip ] > would something like this help you? > > $body = str_replace("%uname%", $uname, $body); > > %uname% = string in file to be replaced > $uname = php variable to replace the string > $body = the file to search and replace in > [ /snip ] I am assuming that the $body in this example is all of the text in a file. I am trying to avoid reading the entire file in order to replace just one thing. Seems kinda cumbersome to have to read everything, store it, search & replace, write it back. What I would like to be able to do is just use the following information : 1. string to look for 2. where to look for it (file name) 3. what to replace it with and have PHP "scan" the file (without having to store it as a variable in my script), replace the text, save the file, so that I can include it. good idea though, Burhan From Anthony at Baratta.com Mon May 20 15:10:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Mon May 20 15:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Z-Index / Divs over Divs Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520125519.01b42e38@mail.areamail.net> Howdy! I'm playing with some dHTML Menus, ya know the standard rollover & show menu; roll off and hide menus schtuff. Everything is working hunky-dory with the exception of two "quirks". Here's a brief outline of the setup: A Div wrapping an image for each "main menu". A Div wrapping a small table for each drop down menu. The Divs have the MouseOver and MouseOut events on them, versus the hrefs. The Main Menu is setup to rollover when selected, as well as be "selected" while the mouse is over the drop down menu. Mozilla .9+/Netscape 6+ The main menu rollover "flickers" while the mouse is moved over the associated dropdown menu. I.E. does not flicker. I.E. 5+ on the Mac: We have two rows of main menus. They are close enough that the drop downs for the top row "overlap" the second row of main menus. With Mac IE, while moving the mouse down a selected drop down menu if "hit" a covered main menu, the MouseOver event fires for the covered menu. This does not happen on any other browser or platform. I've tried setting the z-Index of the dropdowns to "0", but the MouseOver event for the covered menus still fires. I don't have any code to post at the moment (all internal development) but was hoping that someone might have seen this behaviour before. P.S. We are only interested in DOM2 compliant solutions, we have a solution in place for non DOM2 compliant browsers. -- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From rwd at csi1st.net Mon May 20 15:13:01 2002 From: rwd at csi1st.net (Ron Dorman) Date: Mon May 20 15:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS References: <00cd01c20031$a4dc3e50$ccb8b7c7@compaq> <3CE94D32.9040701@csi1st.net> <013801c20036$81b17580$ccb8b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <3CE95A29.1000304@csi1st.net> Burhan Khalid wrote: > [ snip ] > >>would something like this help you? >> >>$body = str_replace("%uname%", $uname, $body); >> >>%uname% = string in file to be replaced >>$uname = php variable to replace the string >>$body = the file to search and replace in >> >> > [ /snip ] > > I am assuming that the $body in this example is all of the text in a file. I > am trying to avoid reading the entire file in order to replace just one > thing. > Seems kinda cumbersome to have to read everything, store it, search & > replace, write it back. What I would like to be able to do is just use the > following information : > > 1. string to look for > 2. where to look for it (file name) > 3. what to replace it with > > and have PHP "scan" the file (without having to store it as a variable in my > script), replace the text, save the file, so that I can include it. You can do that with a 'grep' command on *nix systems or a script on Win systems. Maybe have your php generate the needed grep cmd/win script and then execute at the system command level. Ron D. From mailing.lists at creed.co.uk Mon May 20 15:25:01 2002 From: mailing.lists at creed.co.uk (Andy Warwick) Date: Mon May 20 15:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS In-Reply-To: <3CE94D32.9040701@csi1st.net> Message-ID: Burhan Khalid wrote: > Hello all : > . . . is there a way to have PHP > scan a file for a place holder and then replace it with something else? I'm > looking for a greymatter-like {{something}} type solution. Burhan If you are on Apache server you can add the following line to your .htaccess file and PHP will directly parse your CSS files as well; there will be a performance hit, but I suspect it will be less than loading a file into a variable then writing it back. AddHandler application/x-httpd-php .css That way you can simply transfer your PHP code into the included stylesheet and parse it in situ. I use this trick for including images in the background of pages with full paths: body { background: #f9f9f9 url(watermark.gif); } HTH Andy W From Christopher at ideadesigners.com Mon May 20 15:31:01 2002 From: Christopher at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Mon May 20 15:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Digital asset management systems - was (Content Publishing...) In-Reply-To: <3CE93AE0.1080002@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: > Whilst on this subject has anyone come accross any good open source digital content > management systems. We have a client who wishes to sell their digital effects > libraries and loops online and the existing sites charge upwards of 55% > commision..... > Why does it have to be open source? Would not just a decent DCMS that you ran yourself and didn't pay someone commission for be sufficient? I am looking for a content management system that: -doesn`t cost the earth -I can integrate into a site management system -I can modify I am open to alternative solutions sure but those are my preferences. Chris. From richard.bennett at skynet.be Mon May 20 15:41:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Mon May 20 15:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Z-Index / Divs over Divs References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520125519.01b42e38@mail.areamail.net> Message-ID: <01da01c2003e$88a19b60$963988d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi, <----- Original Message ----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Check out this link in Mozilla and IE: http://www.ballsome.com/games/reviews/articles/20020304-1.html and the accompanying stylesheets: http://www.ballsome.com/stylesheets/ballsome.css http://www.ballsome.com/stylesheets/subcategories.css http://www.ballsome.com/stylesheets/articles.css My problem is with the images. IE displays them the way I intended. How can I make Mozilla do the same? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOlfdX880CLOJa2eEQI1pwCg1N8rcVMxPz0vfSuPQ7wjp2Z29/YAoPeP HrshdLrL3ahFb2OQB4uf2crv =/9Ie -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Christopher at ideadesigners.com Mon May 20 15:55:01 2002 From: Christopher at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Mon May 20 15:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist][ot] Digital asset management systems - was (Content Publishing...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris, > Christopher Joseph > (IT Manager) > mailto://christopher at ideadesigners.com > http://ideadesigners.com > ICQ 78019724 > SMS/Text message from mobile to ICQ +278314278019724 > Groove Networks global lookup ref: Christopher Joseph > Yahoo IM = josephc_98 iDeadESigners.com ... Let me guess. Your site is running on Mac hardware, and it's about the dangers of abusing digital signatures? (-; Jonathan. ...hmmm good job you sent the tip! better reciprocate :) A couple of days back I managed to get a site page to validate as XHTML 1.0 Transitional using W3C.orgs HTML validator. Only to find that W2C's CSS validator did not like the XHTML after all. It seems like an editor i had used to build the page had left an invisible character in my source code that didn`t conform to the page's described charset. Using PFE (run a search in tips for previous reference) you can use the 'find' menu option to search for the character in hex that is throwing the unicode error in the CSS validator results. To represent an arbitrary character code in the find function, use the notation "\xnn", where "nn" represents two hexadecimal digits. The null value "\x00" is not permitted. Chris From szh at hotpop.com Mon May 20 16:05:01 2002 From: szh at hotpop.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Mon May 20 16:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I infected or what? References: <20020520170323.3E8DC3BBC@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <006901c20030$ffb86520$d10987cb@haidersystem> Hi Chris, Liam and Nan, both are right. I also had Klez virus and I also have been receiving bounced back mails. I could not update my Anti-Virus because Virus had seized my AV. I downloaded a small (132KB) chunk of anti-virus from http://www.symantec.com/ and this chunk cleaned my PC very smoothly. You should do the same. You must alert your online friends also. Virus on my friends' PC's were still sending me viruses after the clean-up of Klez virus from my machine. Then I told them about the virus and they cleaned their machines too. Now I am not receiving any Viral mails. You can easily detect the original sender of the viral mails from their headers. Remember! Return-path gives you the vital information. Hope this helps. Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:14:45 EDT Subject: Re: [thelist] Am I infected or what? To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] If you have been getting messages from servers that have bounced email they *think* is from you, chances are very good that you have received an infected email to, the emails have an attachment, some random file. If you scroll down and read the headers of the email you have gotten that is infected, you can see the actual email address that the email came from. I have gotten several of these infected emails from people (as well as bounced server messages) and I have emailed them to tell them that THEY are infected, and they should do something about it. This virus going around right now which is doing these things is the Klez virus. http:// www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174,00.html Nan Smith > > I have started receiving email bounces from servers saying that I am > emailing > viruses. I have run Norton Antivirus with the latest definitions and it > finds > nothing. Can someone look at the headers below and see if there is > something > fishy? > > > > > Hi, > > Part of the way some new viruses operate is to spoof the email account that > the virus is being sent from. One cunning trick used is to send an email > from Person A, but use email address of Person B (that may have been found > in person A address book). A victim gets the message and lets the sender > know that they had a virus (Person B), but it wasn't them! From r937 at interlog.com Mon May 20 16:19:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Mon May 20 16:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Survey database design for storing responses to multiple-choice questions Message-ID: <01c20043$cee024c0$c3e8059a@rudy> > tblResponses > question_id (pk, fk) > respondent_id (pk, fk) > response_text (pk) hi ben nice design michael already answered your problem -- don't pk that text, my friend i thought perhaps i'd expound a bit on the role of the pk the only reason for having a pk is so that the database can apply relational integrity rules on any foreign key that references that pk since you don't have another table referencing tblResponses, you don't actually need any pk! i could digress at this point and say that if you're using mysql, you needn't bother with pk's and fk's at all, as it doesn't support them, but i won't, because you may want a uniqueness constraint you probably want to declare a uniqueness constraint on question_id and respondent_id taken together -- this is so as to prevent the same person from responding to the same question more than once when you declare a pk in most databases (including mysql), the database implements this with a unique index, and it is this happenstance that leads most people to believe that every table needs a pk -- in reality, it does no such thing, and a table can quite happily live without a pk, and in many cases, without a uniqueness constraint as well i mean, stop and think about it -- if you declare a field as an autonumber, why would you want to go to the trouble of declaring a uniqueness constraint on it? it's *gotta* be unique, or else your database is b0rken! now, whether you need an index for performance reasons is an entirely separate question (leave aside for a moment the fact that most databases employ an index as the most convenient way to implement a uniqueness constraint) if you reference a particular field in a WHERE clause, chances are the query will perform poorly without an index on that field without an index, the database has no choice but to scan through every row in the table with an index, the WHERE clause can be resolved without accessing the table, and then only those rows that qualify are retrieved from disk indexing is not a big deal with small tables (a couple hundred rows), because after the first read, all the rows of the entire table will probably just sit in the database's buffer area but if you're dealing with thousands or millions of rows, indexes are important so, declare indexes later, as part of physical implementation strategy, after the logical design of the database has been completed (and tested) okay, to come back to primary keys for a second most databases implement primary keys as unique indexes take advantage of this declare a pk for every table forget about declaring foreign keys, unless your database implements relational integrity rudy From kathlyn at three.nu Mon May 20 17:37:01 2002 From: kathlyn at three.nu (Kathlyn Tilton) Date: Mon May 20 17:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi evolters! I would really appreciate it if you could take the time to do a site check on a site about abandoned buildings that I have been working on. http://www.thederelictsensation.com/index.htm The site is part of a project that is going to include a series of exibits. The first exibit will take place in the fall of 2002 in the (abandoned) Midland Grand Hotel, located over a major train station in London. Thank you, Kathlyn From cparker at swatgear.com Mon May 20 17:59:02 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Mon May 20 17:59:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS: dynamic pages and search engines/spiders Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811A@ati-ex-01.ati.local> hi. how do Spiders (like googlebot, or any other) index (if at all) dynamic websites? say you've got a website with a knowledge base and you have a page that displays each kb article based on it's id like so... http://www.myAwesomeWebsiteForYou.com/kb.asp?kbid=2746 so back to my original question... how do Spiders (like googlebot, or any other) index (if at all) dynamic websites? thanks, chris. From mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com Mon May 20 18:07:01 2002 From: mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Mon May 20 18:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c20052$eefc36e0$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> Hi Kathlyn, Design wise: solid! consistent: yes! appealing: yes! purpose: ?? Still a bit confused as to the point of the site. Am I to get into a discussion regarding derelict spaces or life experiences?? Not real clear. I have some suggestions: The font size is a little small for my liking (IE 6.0, 1280x1024). I think that impression is compounded by having white text on a black background (harder to read). The menu system along the top is consistent throughout the site except on the Forum page - it shifts to the left and has borders. Maybe you could have some random exhibit image fill the upper left corner of the home page. The "column" graphic is less impressive as the rest of the photos you pull in in other places of the site. Good luck! markJ -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kathlyn Tilton Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:31 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] site check please Hi evolters! I would really appreciate it if you could take the time to do a site check on a site about abandoned buildings that I have been working on. http://www.thederelictsensation.com/index.htm The site is part of a project that is going to include a series of exibits. The first exibit will take place in the fall of 2002 in the (abandoned) Midland Grand Hotel, located over a major train station in London. Thank you, Kathlyn -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org Mon May 20 18:17:01 2002 From: RMilot-Bradford at nsca-lift.org (Rebecca Milot-Bradford) Date: Mon May 20 18:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please Message-ID: > http://www.thederelictsensation.com/index.htm I like it a lot! Enough to bookmark it under "cool sites." My only nitpicky suggestion is to make the type either larger or resizeable. My eyes started to hurt after a few minutes on the site. From scotts at rci-nv.com Mon May 20 18:21:01 2002 From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz) Date: Mon May 20 18:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathlyn Tilton [mailto:kathlyn at three.nu] > > Hi evolters! > > I would really appreciate it if you could take the time to do > a site check > on a site about abandoned buildings that I have been working on. > > http://www.thederelictsensation.com/index.htm The site looks really good. I just started getting lost in it, forgetting that I was doing a critique. A few things jumped out at me, though... * I wish you could see all the projects at once on the homepage, instead of having to endure that automatic scroll. I'd like maybe for them all to be visible in a block of thumbnails, or to at least have more control over the speed and direction of the scroll - like the list on the project summary pages. And the "view projects" text seems like it should be a link to the projects page. * I like the look of the top navigation better in the forum section than the main section. The splash of orange really jumps out at you, and I'd like to see that on the whole site. * I wish the logo in the upper left corner was a link back to the home page. * In the Angel project (and possibly others with multiple gallery pages), the gallery navigation acted a little differently than what I expected. When you're in Gallery 1, the nav reads: Click Thumbnail | Link to Gallery 2 | Link to Gallery 3 Then, in gallery 2: Click Thumbnail | Link to Gallery 1 | Link to Gallery 3 In my opinion, it should be more like: Link to Gallery 1 | Click Thumbnail | Link to Gallery 3 And in Gallery 3: Link to Gallery 1 | Link to Gallery 2 | Click Thumbnail In other words, the "click thumbnails" text would be a "You Are Here" marker, and the links to the other galleries wouldn't jump around. * Also in the gallery, in the little pseudo-breadcrumb text in the upper left that says Giles Angel Photo Gallery 3 I think "Giles Angel" should be a link back to the project summary page. * On some pages the links are the same color as non-linked text, and that can get confusing. Especially if I'm expecting the text to be some kind of navigation, and it's not. * The text is a little small and low-contrast. I can still read it , but I'm young and my eyes are corrected to 20/20. Other people might have a hard time reading it. Since it's an art project site, though, it's your call. Looks really good. Good work! From cache at dowebscentral.com Mon May 20 18:31:01 2002 From: cache at dowebscentral.com (Keith) Date: Mon May 20 18:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Blogger, CMS, MSHTML editor, whatchamacalllit Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520163825.00a8fcf0@dowebscentral.com> Hi gang I've created a browser-run wysiwyg content editor that runs in IE5.5 on Windows only. The editor offers drag-n-drop editing similar to HTML email editor programs. The pages edited will view in any version 4 browser (I think/hope). The editor is Perl based JavaScript and should run from either Unix or Windows servers. The editor uses the mshtml wysywyg editor that is built-in to Internet Explorer browsers so there is nothing for the end-user to download or install. The program can be used as a single user content editor for a site or as a multi-author editor for an e-zine or blog type community site. Each author can edit only within their directory tree. No templates are offered but template creation is simple and straight-forward. The site admin can therefore create one template to be used by multiple authors across the site, or offer a variety of templates for authors to chose from for individualization. The templates have contenteditable areas, allowing sitewide features to be put on a template without the "author" being able to edit those features. The editor supports inserting images from the server, navigation within the author's directory tree, creating links, lists, uploading files, creating new directories, creating new html files from the template, and deleting files. The program, unboundPublisher, is offered as freeware. I just opened the site so I'd like some feedback. The site was about 80% built with the editor. http://unboundpublisher.com keith cache at dowebs.com cache at unboundpublisher.com From martin at takingitglobal.org Mon May 20 18:39:00 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Mon May 20 18:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS: dynamic pages and search engines/spiders In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811A@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: <000a01c20057$4da13340$6501a8c0@martinlaptop> // experts pls check: ForceType declaration for asp parsing // Google seems to do a brilliant job of this, actually. It indexes querystrung pages on my org's site wonderfully. Dunno the mechanism tho.. Guess it's all just link-following In any case, if you're worried about it not working, you could use the magic of .htaccess files work for you [as long as you're on a *nix system] Rename your file kb [no extension] And drop a .htaccess file with the following content in its directory: ForceType application/x-httpd-asp [I'm guessing that's what it'd be... Hehe... Judging by the php version [see below] All you have left is to have you script explode the current url [which'd end up as http://www.myAwesomeWebsiteForYou.com/kb/2746], and grab the content after the last '/'... Voila... Your kbid. Happy for all search engines that don't like querystrings, and also a touch friendlier for users trying to memorise urls.. After all... Who can memorise querystrung var names? Same goes for a php file, too... 'cept it's x-httpd-php And if you wanted the file to act as your index file for the dir.. Add the following lines fater the statement: RewriteEngine on RewriteRule ^index\.html$ kb [L] DirectoryIndex kb Hth, -m -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Chris W. Parker > how do Spiders (like googlebot, or any other) index (if at all) dynamic websites? From hassan at webtuitive.com Mon May 20 18:40:00 2002 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Mon May 20 18:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: comment on the DOS print tip References: Message-ID: <3CE98952.F849CA4B@webtuitive.com> Techwatcher wrote: > Regarding the printing tip for getting a listing of files one > could plainly see in an Explorer window: Yes, of course that DOS > command will work, but with the same limitations (and none of the > advantages) as opening my old XyWrite (for Windows 3.1). One word: Cygwin. Having a Unix-style (bash, csh) shell on your Windows machine is a real joy. No 8.3 limitations, command completion, history, snap into vi for quick edits, and much much more. YMMV, natch :-) -- H* Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 -- From cparker at swatgear.com Mon May 20 18:45:00 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Mon May 20 18:45:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS: dynamic pages and search engines/spiders Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811B@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > It indexes querystrung pages on my org's site wonderfully. Dunno the > mechanism tho.. Guess it's all just link-following so then if the kb article is not linked somewhere on the site then obviously the spider will not reach it right? (that's probably an obvious 'right!'.) > In any case, if you're worried about it not working, you could use the > magic of .htaccess files work for you [as long as you're on a *nix > system] nope. one more question... would it be worthwhile to have a link that read like this... "Show All Articles"... and on that page list every article (or maybe every article in a certain category or something) as a link so that the spider had some more articles to crawl? chris. From martin at takingitglobal.org Mon May 20 18:48:01 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Mon May 20 18:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS: dynamic pages and search engines/spiders In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811B@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: <000b01c20058$afbe46c0$6501a8c0@martinlaptop> Could list them all in one page... Or link to each category/whatever way yousorted it and show the lot for that section... ...as long as they can get to them thru a link, rather than a form, you'll be fine. -m From mel at kingsley.co.za Mon May 20 19:07:01 2002 From: mel at kingsley.co.za (Melody Kerchhoff) Date: Mon May 20 19:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, Does anyone know how to create a dotted line as a border for an object in Fireworks 4? For instance, I have drawn a square with rounded corners and I know how to set the fill and how to change many attributes of the stroke, but I can't seem to figure out how to make the stroke a dotted line. Am I just having an extremely blonde day or is this not possible in Fireworks 4? Please help if you can and be as specific as possible when telling me what to do. Like I said, I am blonde after all:) Thanks so much in advance. Melody -- From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon May 20 19:26:01 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon May 20 19:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? References: Message-ID: <007f01c2005e$21c3c880$9fa2fea9@dansk.ca> Melody, I've never been able to figure this out either .. so a googling I went .. The second link is more comprehensive. http://www.tek-tips.com/gviewthread.cfm/lev2/4/lev3/31/pid/726/qid/240923 http://www.designnewz.com/2001/0416.html HTH, Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Kerchhoff" | Does anyone know how to create a dotted line as a border for an object in | Fireworks 4? For instance, I have drawn a square with rounded corners and I | know how to set the fill and how to change many attributes of the stroke, | but I can't seem to figure out how to make the stroke a dotted line. Am I | just having an extremely blonde day or is this not possible in Fireworks 4? From webdad at tampabay.rr.com Mon May 20 19:36:01 2002 From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert) Date: Mon May 20 19:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c2005f$fe680c00$8d5d2241@tampabay.rr.com> This command may help, http://www.fwzone.net/showDetail.asp?TypeId=3&NewsId=1335 basically you would draw your line around the object and convert it to a dotted line. You can also look at these tech notes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/ts/documents/dotted_line_brush.h tm http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/workvectors/create_custom_stroke s/create_custom_strokes07.html Watch the wrap... Hope this helps, Bob ...-----Original Message----- ...From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org ...[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Melody Kerchhoff ...Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 8:08 PM ...To: thelist at lists.evolt.org ...Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? ... ... ...-- ...[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] ... ...Hi, ... ...Does anyone know how to create a dotted line as a border for ...an object in ...Fireworks 4? For instance, I have drawn a square with ...rounded corners and I ...know how to set the fill and how to change many attributes ...of the stroke, ...but I can't seem to figure out how to make the stroke a ...dotted line. Am I ...just having an extremely blonde day or is this not possible ...in Fireworks 4? ... ...Please help if you can and be as specific as possible when ...telling me what ...to do. Like I said, I am blonde after all:) ... ...Thanks so much in advance. ...Melody ...-- ... ...-- ...For unsubscribe and other options, including ...the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: ...http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! ...--- ...Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ...Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ...Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 ... From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com Mon May 20 19:45:01 2002 From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone) Date: Mon May 20 19:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] can't get Quiz javascript to work in Netscape 6.1 Message-ID: <000901c20060$6e7643e0$5d0ae343@oemcomputer> Have a simple quiz javascript on the page below: http://www.24caratdesign.com/Cheftrain/html/ChefHACCP.html It works fine in IE5.5 and NN4.7. But in NS6.1 you select the answers and press the submit button, and 6.1 just sits there with the loading bar at 100%, but nothing happens. Any clue as to how I can fix it? Page is HTML 4.01 Trans. Maybe Perl is the answer. Best, Sharon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sharon F. Malone "web design and Internet writing services" http://www.24caratdesign.com sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com From kathlyn at three.nu Mon May 20 20:21:01 2002 From: kathlyn at three.nu (Kathlyn Tilton) Date: Mon May 20 20:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please In-Reply-To: <000001c20052$eefc36e0$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> Message-ID: Thank you for your suggestions-i can definitely see the points that you make and I appreciate you taking the time to look it over. It's purpose is to discuss experiences in and around derelict buildings. Right now we haven't narrowed it down to something more specific-I think we are now kind of rolling with whatever people who are interested in the subject come up with. I can see what you mean about the site's purpose being vague. I can also see what you mean about the text size and you have definitely pointed out several practical navigation/accessibility ideas to me. Any further comments would be appreciated and if anyone feels inspired we are always interested in new contributors. Kathlyn From mail at redhotsweeps.com Mon May 20 21:07:03 2002 From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty) Date: Mon May 20 21:07:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Am I infected or what? In-Reply-To: <0033000064632511000002L012*@MHS> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520210447.00bc04a0@redhotsweeps.com> Thanks all. I am happy to report that I am clean. :) Wish these virus writers would get a life and find something more constructive to do. :( Chris At 10:35 AM 5/20/2002, you wrote: >I have started receiving email bounces from servers saying that I am emailing >viruses. I have run Norton Antivirus with the latest definitions and it finds >nothing. Can someone look at the headers below and see if there is something >fishy? > >I think there is something up because of the AOL address and the Charter.net >addresses. (Addresses X'd out by me.) Neither of these addresses are familiar >to me. Also, the /admin/email/phpost.php is me. > >Anyone? > >Thanks > >Chris From mpember at phreaker.net Mon May 20 21:55:00 2002 From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton) Date: Mon May 20 21:55:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: comment on the DOS print tip Message-ID: <200205210254.g4L2sQR29376@mail019.syd.optusnet.com.au> Having spent the last few months dealing with the replacement of win95 machines with win2k ones here at work, I have become attached to a few tools I have started using that give me these features in a DOS setup. For file completion, there is an option as part of the Win2K version of TweakUI to enable this. By setting both file and folder completion to "TAB", you can emulate the bash style filename completion. As for a DOS equiv, there is a great tool called DOSED out there. This is a fantastic replacement for DOSKEY. It has filename completion and history in one simple tool. ---- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 -- Original Message -- From: Hassan Schroeder Send: 2002-05-21 ... Having a Unix-style (bash, csh) shell on your Windows machine is a real joy. No 8.3 limitations, command completion, history, snap into vi for quick edits, and much much more. From gozz at gozz.com Mon May 20 23:46:00 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Mon May 20 23:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CF scheduled task fails Message-ID: I have a task (HTTP request) scheduled if the CF Admin that consistently fails (IIS 5/Win 2k) ... - It works when the URL is not password protected - The template executes correctly when loaded in a browser - The same task work fine if not password protected - An identical task works fine for another domain on the same server Ideas? -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From joshua at waetech.com Tue May 21 00:03:01 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Tue May 21 00:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CF scheduled task fails References: Message-ID: <02da01c20084$a4eddbd0$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Mattheis" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:47 AM Subject: [thelist] CF scheduled task fails > I have a task (HTTP request) scheduled if the CF Admin that > consistently fails (IIS 5/Win 2k) ... > > - It works when the URL is not password protected > - The template executes correctly when loaded in a browser > - The same task work fine if not password protected > - An identical task works fine for another domain on the same server > > Ideas? You keep mentioning "password protected." Is the file you are attempting to execute protected? Does the url require special DNS resolution to access? -joshua From headlines at lists.evolt.org Tue May 21 00:11:02 2002 From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines) Date: Tue May 21 00:11:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 20-MAY-02 Message-ID: <200205210510.g4L5A2Jb015937@leo.evolt.org> evolt.org headlines for 20-MAY-02 Hi evolters! We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else: Code: Creating a login script with PHP 4 part II (Author: jesteruk) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/27093/index.html An update to the "Creating a login script with PHP 4" article. This article offers improved, more efficient coding, better security and some extra features. Site Development: Using MySQL and PHP to Present Excel Spreadsheets (Author: eli) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/20/26896/index.html On occasion web developers are called upon to present output in formats other than HTML, especailly where numeric data is concerned. Here is one tool to add to your arsenal when the need arises. Site Development: Storage and re-use of images using PHP/GD - Part 1 (Author: gvtulder) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/20/27237/index.html Publishing images on the web is nice, but tedious. It would be nice if we could use a system that automates the uploading, storage, converting and resizing of our images. We could feed that system our images once, and retrieve them later in many different formats. In this article, we will write some scripts that come close to this ideal system. PHP and the GD-library will provide us with an easy method of uploading, searching and publishing our images. Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site. Happy reading! evolt.org From chris at fuzzylizard.com Tue May 21 00:20:00 2002 From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Tue May 21 00:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] Message-ID: <3CE9DA9B.3020006@fuzzylizard.com> Please help me. I am desparate and really have no place else to turn for some advice. I am having some problems with my computer, specifically the memory, I guess. Here is the error that I keep getting: The instruction at "0x0026c70e" referenced memory at "0x4a372851". The memory could not be "written". Click on OK to terminate the program Click on Cancel to debug the program. I do not know any computer engineers who can help me with this problem, so I turn to this most intenlligent and all knowing group. If this a ram problem, a hard drive problem, what? I have run a memory test program - memtest86 - and it found 9 errors while it was going through test #10. This is a very high level test and is only included as part of the extended tests. If I run the default tests, I get zero (0) errors. Currently, I am getting the error everytime I run a particular program - combustion - and go and try to import footage. This is a new behaviour for this program. I also get the error at random points in time as well along with having programs just slow down on me for no apparent reason - Maya being the main culprit. I realize this is off topic, however, short of spending several hundred dollars on proper diagnostics, this is really the only place I know of to go for advice. So, if you do not have an answer but you know of a better place to look for a solution, please pass that along as well. Thank you for your help /chris Unless you are a computer engineer or are A+ certified, always buy a computer from someplace that offers extened warranties. Then you will not be dead in the water with no hope when you computer starts to die on you. I HATE COMPUTERS #@$#@$#@$#@$ From hblair at hotfootmail.com Tue May 21 00:27:01 2002 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Tue May 21 00:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] In-Reply-To: <3CE9DA9B.3020006@fuzzylizard.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Chris Johnston > > I am having some problems with my computer, specifically the memory, I > guess. Here is the error that I keep getting: I think you've answered your own question. You have 1 or more memory strips gone bad. If your computer has more than 1 memory strip, you might try buying 1 and swapping it with one of those in the computer. If that doesn't solve the problem, swap the new one with the other. If you only have 1 strip, replace it. If swapping one at a time doesn't solve it, buy another and put 2 new ones in. -Hugh From chris at fuzzylizard.com Tue May 21 00:31:01 2002 From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Tue May 21 00:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] References: Message-ID: <3CE9DD1E.8050100@fuzzylizard.com> Great, thanks, but is there anyway I can be sure that it is my ram and not some other component like the motherboard or the cpu? Hugh Blair wrote: > >I think you've answered your own question. You have 1 or more memory >strips gone bad. If your computer has more than 1 memory strip, you might >try buying 1 and swapping it with one of those in the computer. If that >doesn't solve the problem, swap the new one with the other. If you only >have 1 strip, replace it. If swapping one at a time doesn't solve it, >buy another and put 2 new ones in. > >-Hugh > > From nets at searchtools.com Tue May 21 00:35:01 2002 From: nets at searchtools.com (nets at searchtools.com) Date: Tue May 21 00:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS: dynamic pages and search engines/spiders In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811B@ati-ex-01.ati.local> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07811B@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: At 4:44 PM -0700 5/20/02, Chris W. Parker wrote: > > It indexes querystrung pages on my org's site wonderfully. Dunno the > > mechanism tho.. Guess it's all just link-following AltaVista also indexes some pages with query strings, but many other search engines just ignore them. It's a good idea to convert the urls to slashes, then you're sure to get search engine robots. >so then if the kb article is not linked somewhere on the site then >obviously the spider will not reach it right? (that's probably an >obvious 'right!'.) Not entirely. If anyone anywhere links to it, spiders can find it. You have no control over who links to it. You should protect it with a password if you want to keep it private. >one more question... > >would it be worthwhile to have a link that read like this... "Show All >Articles"... and on that page list every article (or maybe every article >in a certain category or something) as a link so that the spider had >some more articles to crawl? Yes, that's an excellent idea. It makes it very easy for the robot spiders to follow the links. And if anyone actually wants to read all your articles, they can do that too :-) Be sure to date the articles, so humans have a little chronological context. Avi -- Complete Guide to Search Engines for Web Sites and Intranets From georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com Tue May 21 00:36:01 2002 From: georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com (George Klingenhoffer) Date: Tue May 21 00:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ie5 mac: padding img Message-ID: I'm trying to put space in-between these four images. The CSS works fine for the browsers I've tested except for IE5 for the Mac (and I'm assuming Mozilla for the Mac too.) I've tried the following: #picmenu a {padding:0px 20px 0px 0px;} (works in IE6/win,opera/win,etc.) #picmenu img {...} img#picmenu {...} #bob2 img {...} etc. Any ideas? Here's the code:

BUFFALO DAUGHTER

Buffalo DaughterBuffalo DaughterBuffalo DaughterBuffalo Daughter

Thanks! From hblair at hotfootmail.com Tue May 21 00:40:01 2002 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Tue May 21 00:40:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] In-Reply-To: <3CE9DD1E.8050100@fuzzylizard.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Chris Johnston > > Great, thanks, but is there anyway I can be sure that it is my ram and > not some other component like the motherboard or the cpu? In a word, no. But the symptoms you described (well done there) really point to your RAM. Your hard disk is out of the picture, the CPU is 99% out of the picture. It could be a motherboard issue, but since memory is fairly cheap, that's the place to start. If putting all new memory chips in doesn't solve it, then it's probably a motherboard issue. But those are rare. High odds it's memory. Besides, you said "I have run a memory test program - memtest86 - and it found 9 errors while it was going through test #10." There is points to the error. -- Hugh From chris at fuzzylizard.com Tue May 21 00:45:01 2002 From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Tue May 21 00:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] References: Message-ID: <3CE9E059.6000203@fuzzylizard.com> Okay, Thank you for such a quick response. I will try to do some more tests with the memory and also try to purchase some new ram and see if that solves the problem. Thank you. /chris Hugh Blair wrote: > >In a word, no. But the symptoms you described (well done there) really >point to your RAM. Your hard disk is out of the picture, the CPU is 99% >out of the picture. It could be a motherboard issue, but since memory >is fairly cheap, that's the place to start. If putting all new memory >chips in doesn't solve it, then it's probably a motherboard issue. But >those are rare. > >High odds it's memory. Besides, you said "I have run a memory >test program - memtest86 - and it found 9 errors while it was going >through test #10." There is points to the error. > >-- > Hugh > > From gozz at gozz.com Tue May 21 00:49:01 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Tue May 21 00:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CF scheduled task fails In-Reply-To: <02da01c20084$a4eddbd0$4300a8c0@client1> References: <02da01c20084$a4eddbd0$4300a8c0@client1> Message-ID: > > I have a task (HTTP request) scheduled if the CF Admin that >> consistently fails (IIS 5/Win 2k) ... >> >> - It works when the URL is not password protected >> - The template executes correctly when loaded in a browser >> - The same task work fine if not password protected >> - An identical task works fine for another domain on the same server >> >> Ideas? > >You keep mentioning "password protected." Is the file you are attempting to >execute protected? No ... it just has the Anonymous Web User removed from it's permissions ... and it worked fine before ... that was last month ... then the client started using it and it doesn't work. And I KNOW exactly when it started not to work, because it's a several step process which involves waiting for emails and sending out responses: it was within 15 minutes of the first time it was used ... the first step worked, but it never went to the second step ... That is until I manually loaded the URL into a browser using the same U/P as had been in the scheduled task. I've deleted the task and added it again ... nothing. > Does the url require special DNS resolution to access? No. -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Tue May 21 01:09:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Tue May 21 01:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2008d$bbd396b0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Does anyone know how to create a dotted line as a border for an object in Fireworks 4? ___ There is a command you can download from one of the fireworks sites. Can't remember which one it is, but if you contact me offlist I can send it to you. Dotted lines are something sorely missed from FW - and it's not in FWMX either. Cheers Francis From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Tue May 21 01:27:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Tue May 21 01:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? In-Reply-To: <000001c2008d$bbd396b0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Message-ID: <000601c20090$436c0b00$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> There is a command you can download from one of the fireworks sites. Can't remember which one it is, but if you contact me offlist I can send it to you. _______ Actually, just found the site. http://www.projectfireworks.com Goto gadgets, then commands and dotted lines are on page 10. There are loads of other excellent commands on this site. Cheers Francis From peter at johansson.org Tue May 21 05:04:00 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Tue May 21 05:04:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 May 2002, Andy Warwick wrote: > If you are on Apache server you can add the following line to your .htaccess > file and PHP will directly parse your CSS files as well; there will be a > performance hit, but I suspect it will be less than loading a file into a > variable then writing it back. > > AddHandler application/x-httpd-php .css > > That way you can simply transfer your PHP code into the included stylesheet and > parse it in situ. There's also always the option to just @import a php-file which outputs information. Like so: And then in style.php you let php output appropriate css. That way you don't have to tamper with the server config. Very similar approach, but you keep you php-code in files with suffix .php (which is somewhat neater imho). Regards, Peter From david at us-lot.org Tue May 21 05:16:00 2002 From: david at us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Tue May 21 05:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020521002046.4e30e730.david@us-lot.org> -- On Mon, 20 May 2002 18:31:18 -0400 "Kathlyn Tilton" wrote: > Hi evolters! > > I would really appreciate it if you could take the time to do a site > check on a site about abandoned buildings that I have been working on. > > http://www.thederelictsensation.com/index.htm Alt text! Alt text! Alt text! [projects1.gif] [projects2.gif] [projects3.gif] [projects4.gif] [projects5.gif] [projects6.gif] [projects7.gif] [projects8.gif] [projects9.gif] [projects10.gif] Errors: http://urlizer.com/00/608/ Medium grey on black isn't the most readable of colours. "Click here to contribute your ideas in our Forum" - what if I don't use a mouse, how do I click? The appearance of the link should make it clear that it is a link, so you can shorten that to "Contribute your ideas in our Forum". The motion in the lower left kept dragging my eye away from the text, this made it rather hard to keep track of my place. You have one block of orange text that is a link, then you have andother block of orange text (view projects) that isn't a link. If you use colour to indicate something then BE CONSISTANT. You have an exciting looking "+" sign in the lower left, clicking on it turns it in to a "-" on an orange background, and nothing else (at least on my system). This is very exciting, but perhaps you should add some more checks so that if it doesn't do what it is supposed to do it actually does something? Going to an inner page I see: Phase One I suspect this would be more apripriately achieve with:

Phase One

after all it reads like a heading to me. (Naturally you can use css to set a font size et al that suits you for

) The white text on light grey background for your form buttons (on the contact page) is utterly unreadably. If you set a colour for anything with CSS then set a sensible background colour at the same time (the CSS validator should spit out lots of warning at you if you try to skip this). Ah! I see the problem! You have set a background colour, you just forgot the "#" sign at the front of your hex code. My browser doesn't assuming a # if one is missing so it renders it with different colours. Make sure you have a "#" sign if you use hex colour codes. You aren't providing a list of fonts to fall back on if the user doesn't have Verdana installed (NB: I installed in _manually_ on my system, other people don't). http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#font-family-prop That's everything that strikes me as obviously wrong. -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. -- [ Content was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ] -- From peterl at cnw.com Tue May 21 05:16:06 2002 From: peterl at cnw.com (Peter Loron) Date: Tue May 21 05:16:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Desparate, Please Help: Memory Problem [OT] In-Reply-To: <3CE9DD1E.8050100@fuzzylizard.com> Message-ID: <408DE3F6-6C7E-11D6-8D7A-00306542D4F0@cnw.com> You need to go through a process of elimination. If you reseat everything in the computer and the problem goes away, then something was loose. If you next swap out the ram and the problem goes away, then you had some bad ram. If you've got a good backup of your system, you can try an OS and app reinstall to see if something got fubar-ed there. Unfortunately there is no magic detector that can nail down problems exactly...I had a Mac one time that I wound up swapping everything out including the OS and finally figured it out to be a motherboard issue. Luckily it was covered under warranty. -Pete On Monday, May 20, 2002, at 10:37 PM, Chris Johnston wrote: > Great, thanks, but is there anyway I can be sure that it is my ram and > not some other component like the motherboard or the cpu? > > Hugh Blair wrote: > >> >> I think you've answered your own question. You have 1 or more memory >> strips gone bad. If your computer has more than 1 memory strip, you >> might >> try buying 1 and swapping it with one of those in the computer. If that >> doesn't solve the problem, swap the new one with the other. If you only >> have 1 strip, replace it. If swapping one at a time doesn't solve it, >> buy another and put 2 new ones in. >> >> -Hugh >> >> > > > > -- For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From bigpant at btinternet.com Tue May 21 05:30:01 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (Bigpant) Date: Tue May 21 05:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP 2D array sort In-Reply-To: <20020521002046.4e30e730.david@us-lot.org> Message-ID: <000801c200b2$9c05a6f0$0100a8c0@p1> I am trying to sort a 2 dimensional array in PHP. $a = array(array ( "text" => "", "qty" => 0 )); $a['text'][0] = "two"; $a['qty'][0] = 2; $a['text'][1] = "one"; $a['qty'][1] = 1; I want to order $a['text'] by $a['qty'], but the sort functions don't appear to have facility for this. Do I have to build my own bubble sort? TIA Phil From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Tue May 21 05:30:06 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Tue May 21 05:30:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Listing of all pages on your site, and listing of all pages to submit to search engines Message-ID: Hi, there -- I can't imagine how you got along without this tool; you probably have some other tool doing a similar (part of it) job: Xenu. It's a link-checker, works online or offline, FREE! But I'm telling you about it because it also produces a very nifty listing (indented via nested UL's) that lists every page it found when it checked your site. On my site I have a listing of every page (under the text-only town directory) called village.shtml -- that's now re-created by running xenu, having it produce its report, editing the report to strip out just that section, and putting my own template-surroundings on top & bottom. Takes moments. Btw, Xenu also produces a list of all files specifically so you can submit them to a search engine. It's a great tool. Cheers -- C. Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com From kris at midtempo.net Tue May 21 06:02:01 2002 From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford [midtempo]) Date: Tue May 21 06:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] regex help needed Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020521115144.02495278@mail.btinternet.com> hi all, delving into regex for the first time and i'm having issues (surprise, surprise!) i've got a cms system where the client can type in their product codes into the body text. i'm attempting to identify these codes and create urls to the respective products passing the code in the url. the codes are identified by either one or two capital letters followed by 2-3 digits. so far i've got $match = array(); $string = "one two three UR12 four five six"; if (ereg ("[A-Z]{1,2}[0-9]{2,3}", $string, $match)) { for ($i=0; $i < count($match); $i++) { $new_match = '' . $match[$i] . ''; $string = ereg_replace($match[$i], $new_match, $string); } } echo $string; but i'm getting a count($match) of 10 and no joy on the ereg_replace. can anyone point me in the right direction? (if there's a better way to do this, i'd also be most grateful for any advice...) tia kris From finewine at ihug.co.nz Tue May 21 06:03:01 2002 From: finewine at ihug.co.nz (John) Date: Tue May 21 06:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Php/Netscape pop-up problem Message-ID: <05db01c200b7$5a746d70$0100a8c0@pacificmade1> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi all, can anyone see what's going on here with this php/netscape problem?....... I have a popup script that pops a new web page, and it works fine in IE (6), however in latest Netscape (6.2.3) it loses the "http://" : the link is on a php page as: POPUP_WEBPAGE references a language file: webpage.'); ?> with the javascript in that file: On mousing over the link the status bar displays exactly the same in both browsers: javascript:popupWebpage('http://www.somesite.com/somepage.html') In IE, the new window appears and loads, in NN, the new window starts, then this message appears : Alert: www.somesite.com%2fsomepage.html could not be found. Please check the name and try again. TIA John -- From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Tue May 21 07:13:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Tue May 21 07:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using PHP to write CSS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c200c0$e5d8b2a0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] Burhan Khalid wrote: > Hello all : > . . . is there a way to have PHP > scan a file for a place holder and then replace it with something else? I'm > looking for a greymatter-like {{something}} type solution. [/snip] http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.fopen.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.ereg-replace.php You can use fopen() along with a reg ex replacement to do what you are looking for. HTH! Jay From seyon at delime.com Tue May 21 07:15:01 2002 From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon) Date: Tue May 21 07:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Listing of all pages on your site, and listing of all pages to submit to search engines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020521081200.01697f00@mail.delime.com> Message from Techwatcher (5/21/2002 06:29 AM) >Hi, there -- > >I can't imagine how you got along without this tool; you probably have >some other tool doing a similar (part of it) job: Xenu. It's a >link-checker, works online or offline, FREE! And if after reading this rave review you just can't wait to try it out, find it here: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html regards. -marc From mpember at phreaker.net Tue May 21 07:40:00 2002 From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton) Date: Tue May 21 07:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP 2D array sort References: <000801c200b2$9c05a6f0$0100a8c0@p1> Message-ID: <3CEA4000.5060009@phreaker.net> Bigpant wrote: >I am trying to sort a 2 dimensional array in PHP. > >$a = array(array ( > "text" => "", > "qty" => 0 > )); >$a['text'][0] = "two"; >$a['qty'][0] = 2; > >$a['text'][1] = "one"; >$a['qty'][1] = 1; > >I want to order $a['text'] by $a['qty'], but the sort functions don't >appear to have facility for this. Do I have to build my own bubble sort? > >TIA >Phil > > > I put together somthing a while back that performed this type of thing. Here's the code: function customCompare ($one, $two) { if ($one["GLS"] > $two["GLS"]) return -1; if ($one["GLS"] < $two["GLS"]) return 1; if ($one["BHS"] > $two["BHS"]) return -1; if ($one["BHS"] < $two["BHS"]) return 1; if ($one["KCK"] > $two["KCK"]) return -1; if ($one["KCK"] < $two["KCK"]) return 1; if ($one["HBL"] > $two["HBL"]) return -1; if ($one["HBL"] < $two["HBL"]) return 1; if ($one["MRK"] > $two["MRK"]) return -1; if ($one["MRK"] < $two["MRK"]) return 1; return 0; }; usort ($newdata, "customCompare"); By returning a value of -1 to indicate a lesser result, a +1 to indicate a greater result and a 0 to indicate an equal result, you can test the values using what ever formulas you want. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to stick you hand in the air. -- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 From PhilParker.DNS at btinternet.com Tue May 21 08:14:00 2002 From: PhilParker.DNS at btinternet.com (PhilParker.DNS) Date: Tue May 21 08:14:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP 2D array sort In-Reply-To: <1522874633.20020514154200@student.tue.nl> Message-ID: <000601c200b1$ffa6ad40$0100a8c0@p1> I am trying to sort a 2 dimensional array in PHP. $a = array(array ( "text" => "", "qty" => 0 )); $a['text'][0] = "two"; $a['qty'][0] = 2; $a['text'][1] = "one"; $a['qty'][1] = 1; I want to order $a['text'] by $a['qty'], but the sort functions don't appear to have facility for this. Do I have to build my own bubble sort? TIA Phil From SchoolcraftJ at SytexInc.com Tue May 21 08:14:06 2002 From: SchoolcraftJ at SytexInc.com (Schoolcraft, Jeffrey) Date: Tue May 21 08:14:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] regex help needed Message-ID: <4608026C143A3940A3AEDA100F82934215AAEF@tsgi-exchange.tsgi.com> Kris, I went about it a little differently than you did, mine looks like this: \\1", $string); echo $string; ?> Basically I'm doing the replace in 1 step, the \\1 is a back reference to the first matching (group), delimited by parens. This should do what you need though. Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: kris burford [midtempo] [mailto:kris at midtempo.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:59 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] regex help needed > > > hi all, > > delving into regex for the first time and i'm having issues (surprise, > surprise!) > > i've got a cms system where the client can type in their > product codes into the body text. i'm attempting to identify > these codes and create urls to the respective products > passing the code in the url. the codes are identified by > either one or two capital letters followed by 2-3 digits. > > so far i've got > > $match = array(); > $string = "one two three UR12 four five six"; > if (ereg ("[A-Z]{1,2}[0-9]{2,3}", $string, $match)) { > for ($i=0; $i < count($match); $i++) { > $new_match = '' . $match[$i] . ''; > $string = ereg_replace($match[$i], $new_match, $string); > } > } > echo $string; > > but i'm getting a count($match) of 10 and no joy on the > ereg_replace. can anyone point me in the right direction? (if > there's a better way to do this, i'd also be most grateful > for any advice...) > > tia > > kris > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From matthew.garrett at snet.net Tue May 21 08:14:11 2002 From: matthew.garrett at snet.net (matthew garrett) Date: Tue May 21 08:14:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] ie5 mac: padding img In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: "George Klingenhoffer" > I'm trying to put space in-between these four images. I'm not a CSS whiz, but 2 things. 1) You should probably be assigning the images a *margin* - not padding. 2) Assign the images to a class and see if you can make that work. Doing both: .spacedout { margin: 0px 20px 0px 0px; } Hope that does it. matt g. From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Tue May 21 08:39:00 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Tue May 21 08:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] regex help needed In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020521115144.02495278@mail.btinternet.com> Message-ID: <002201c200cc$e425b500$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] $match = array(); $string = "one two three UR12 four five six"; if (ereg ("[A-Z]{1,2}[0-9]{2,3}", $string, $match)) { for ($i=0; $i < count($match); $i++) { $new_match = '' . $match[$i] . ''; $string = ereg_replace($match[$i], $new_match, $string); } } echo $string; but i'm getting a count($match) of 10 and no joy on the ereg_replace. [/snip] I'd go through the process of adding print/echo statements to see the problems.... "); print("This is the matched item:" . $match[$i] . "
"); $new_match = ("" . $match[$i] . ""); print($new_match . "
"); $string = ereg_replace($match[$i], $new_match, $string); echo $string; } ?> returns 10 (count($match))...only had one match, why return 10? This is the matched item:UR12 UR12 one two three UR12 four five six EZ12 HTH! Jay From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Tue May 21 08:46:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Tue May 21 08:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C1F4@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi everyone. Would you please give me a frank review of my new site located at: http://www.efeingold.com I am particularly interested in what people think of layout and design in different browser versions. Please tell me your browsing environment if you can. What do I need to add? Pictures, content, etc. Thanks for your time! Josh From mrg at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 09:03:01 2002 From: mrg at members.evolt.org (matt g) Date: Tue May 21 09:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C1F4@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: Hi, IE5 Mac Quickly: i like light colors, but the two background colors you use are essentially the same value - and in combination with the white/light text the whole thing begins to wash out. When I look at the content area, it feels as though I'm looking through a glary surface which obscures the content. If there were just one area with enough contrast to be a visual landmark, that might be all it would take. on your contact form page, you've got a stray 'html>' which is showing up above the content box. matt g > From: Feingold Josh S > I am particularly interested in what people think of layout and design in > different browser versions. Please tell me your browsing environment if you > can. From adam at hallinteractive.com Tue May 21 09:04:01 2002 From: adam at hallinteractive.com (Adam) Date: Tue May 21 09:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C1F4@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: > > http://www.efeingold.com > Hey Josh I'm using IE 5.0 MAC/os9 I have a dual monitor setup going here and on my crappy 15" testing screen the content is actually illegible compared to my nicer newer monitor. both monitors are set to thousands of colors. The actual content layout is nice, tight and pro but I think it may be an accessibility issue that your content doesn't contrast enough with the background. very impressive content btw. other than the color issue (which might only be me anyway) I think you've got a nice tight site. Nice job! cheers, Adam From rob.smith at thermon.com Tue May 21 09:12:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue May 21 09:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Which is it? Rob From evolt at gmx.net Tue May 21 09:18:01 2002 From: evolt at gmx.net (Gijs van Tulder) Date: Tue May 21 09:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: In Dutch it's e-mail. In the English version of Outlook, it's e-mail. The Google dictionary says it's e-mail, email or E-mail: (http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=email&r=67 I personally like e-mail. Gijs -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rob Smith Sent: dinsdag 21 mei 2002 16:13 To: Thelist (E-mail) Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Which is it? Rob From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Tue May 21 09:18:06 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Tue May 21 09:18:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <002501c200d2$5a8716d0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Which is it? [/snip] For what purpose? And don't forget E-Mail, EMail, EMAIL, E-MAIL... Jay Topics requiring a judgement about semantics are better discussed on thechat, http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat From saidovan at rs.uovs.ac.za Tue May 21 09:19:01 2002 From: saidovan at rs.uovs.ac.za (Nedret Saidova) Date: Tue May 21 09:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <3CEA7377.25961.1D41C92@localhost> Pick the poison? "Email" Nedret On 21 May 2002, at 9:13, Rob Smith wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Which is it? > > Rob > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 09:20:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue May 21 09:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: <01c200d2$8af8f9a0$c3e8059a@rudy> >Which is it? hi rob see this article -- E-mail or Email or email? http://www.o2b.net/e-mail/ by Tim Murtaugh, author of the article Mo' Betta Rollovers (http://alistapart.com/stories/rollovers/) rudy http://rudy.ca/ From richard.bennett at skynet.be Tue May 21 09:23:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Tue May 21 09:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <03f001c200d2$dd2e5ad0$963988d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> You can just go with God Google - if you type in e-mail they ask: Did you mean: email 110 million "email"s against 7.5 million "e-mail"s Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Smith" From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Tue May 21 09:26:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Tue May 21 09:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com Message-ID: A frank review, eh? You got it... Frank says your site looks neat in IE, but in Mozilla (RC1) the layout is broken; the containers for your header, menu, and content are all of different widths and align unevenly. On some pages (the online contact form, for instance), there are HTML tags showing because they weren't properly formed. Frank strongly recommends downloading Mozilla and looking at your site. Frank thought there wasn't enough contrast between your background and the copyright notice. (Frank is RG color-blind, but so are over 3 million other Americans.) Frank wanted to change the font size because Frank is nearsighted, but Frank found that the only text that changed sizes when he turned up the text size was the bullets in the bulleted lists. Frank likes big bullets well enough, but they're no substitute for big text. Frank likes the fact that your Web site says what it needs to and stops. He thinks that asking if a website needs something else is like handing someone an engine and asking them if it needs more horsepower. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't; it depends on the purpose and goals of the site. Are pictures relevant to your website's goal? What content might you add to help it achieve its goal? Frank thought your resum? shouldn't keep going in circles. It's a clever way to let users continue through the resum? regardless of which page they enter it through, but it's confusing when you keep clicking "continue to .." and realize you've been going in circles. Frank wonders why your Contact page has a level of hierarchy displayed ("Home :: Contact :: Contact Josh") that the other top-level pages don't ("Home :: Resume"). Frank thinks your site is pretty clean, overall, and compliments you on your simple and effective usage of HTML/CSS. -- Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I Software Engineer Lockheed Martin Information Technology email: phone: (509) 373-0150 -----Original Message----- From: Feingold Josh S [mailto:Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:46 AM To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi everyone. Would you please give me a frank review of my new site located at: http://www.efeingold.com I am particularly interested in what people think of layout and design in different browser versions. Please tell me your browsing environment if you can. What do I need to add? Pictures, content, etc. Thanks for your time! Josh From rob.smith at thermon.com Tue May 21 09:32:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue May 21 09:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A6@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] oops now its 106,000,000 "email"s against 8,140,000 "e-mail"s they're making a come back. kinda like the Kings 110 million "email"s against 7.5 million "e-mail"s Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Smith" -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From keith at geonetric.com Tue May 21 09:46:01 2002 From: keith at geonetric.com (Keith Shaffer) Date: Tue May 21 09:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file Message-ID: Can anyone assist in the best way to take a .bak file created in SQL 7.0 and I need to get it into SQL 2000. It is a file from a different server so it is not in any backup device/tape. From mail at jasoncartwright.com Tue May 21 09:46:06 2002 From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright) Date: Tue May 21 09:46:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708A5@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <001601c200d3$3526cd30$0100a8c0@jason> Interesting question :) http://list-lingo.com ran a poll - What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'? email 34.2% e-mail 26.1% E-mail 15.3% E-Mail 14.4% Email 9.9% Wired.com had a huge debate - http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39651,00.html I tend to refer to it as just 'mail' (eg "mail me that document over") and everyone knows what I mean. But maybe that's just because I'm a geek? Jason www.jasoncartwright.com > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith > Sent: 21 May 2002 15:13 > To: Thelist (E-mail) > Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Tue May 21 09:50:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Tue May 21 09:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: Wired thinks it is hyphenated, and goes into great detail about why. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Smith [mailto:rob.smith at thermon.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:13 AM To: Thelist (E-mail) Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Which is it? Rob From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk Tue May 21 09:51:01 2002 From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes) Date: Tue May 21 09:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sage and php and ...a csv file! In-Reply-To: <001601c200d3$3526cd30$0100a8c0@jason> Message-ID: Hi All Cant remember if I asked this but has anyone come across a shopping cart (using php) and for ot to integrate with sage (the accounting package) The integration would be by means of importing a csv file into the fields?? anyone? I need to get this sorted asap so if there anyone out there fancies a crack I mean hack at it then help most appreciated. I have most of the code already just need to finish it off. Andrew --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Tue May 21 10:01:01 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Tue May 21 10:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion Message-ID: <3CED3400@mail.totalise.co.uk> Has anybody had experience of using the XMLDOM functions in coldfusion by calling the M$ COM object?? Im using this kind of structure(below) but its a completely blind approach which isnt working since I dont know of anyone doing this kind of thing and I dont really know CF well.. ;-( #stuff# Clearly this is wrong and doesnt work... I dont understand how to access the .text property of a selected node. ------------------------ - Daniel Fascia - 18 Gayfield Sq, Edinburgh, EH13NX +447971541842 (mobile) ------------------------ From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Tue May 21 10:01:11 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Tue May 21 10:01:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion Message-ID: <3CED34E5@mail.totalise.co.uk> Has anybody had experience of using the XMLDOM functions in coldfusion by calling the M$ COM object?? Im using this kind of structure(below) but its a completely blind approach which isnt working since I dont know of anyone doing this kind of thing and I dont really know CF well.. ;-( #stuff# Clearly this is wrong and doesnt work... I dont understand how to access the .text property of a selected node. From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Tue May 21 10:02:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Tue May 21 10:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: Ummm... "What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'?" Does anyone else see the obvious reason that the spelling 'email' won in this poll? (-: Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Cartwright [mailto:mail at jasoncartwright.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:24 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Interesting question :) http://list-lingo.com ran a poll - What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'? email 34.2% e-mail 26.1% E-mail 15.3% E-Mail 14.4% Email 9.9% Wired.com had a huge debate - http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39651,00.html I tend to refer to it as just 'mail' (eg "mail me that document over") and everyone knows what I mean. But maybe that's just because I'm a geek? Jason www.jasoncartwright.com From hpinson at indepthl.com Tue May 21 10:04:01 2002 From: hpinson at indepthl.com (hpinson at indepthl.com) Date: Tue May 21 10:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question In-Reply-To: <20020521143517.685F73A9C@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> Hi. I'm new to PHP, moving from Cold Fusion and Zope. In Cold Fusion, to connect to a database, you need to register the database with ODBC. This does not seem to be the case with PHP. How does PHP see the connection to the MySQL database and associated tables? In Dreamweaver MX, I seem to make a connection to the MySQL server, but no databases or tables show up. Harlow Pinson Indepth Learning Email: hpinson at indepthl.com Web: http://www.indepthl.com Voice: 505-994-2135 FAX: 208-475-7678 From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Tue May 21 10:14:02 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Tue May 21 10:14:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question In-Reply-To: <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> Message-ID: <000201c200da$1ffbc760$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] How does PHP see the connection to the MySQL database and associated tables? In Dreamweaver MX, I seem to make a connection to the MySQL server, but no databases or tables show up. [/snip] PHP uses a native set of functions to interact with MySQL, ODBC is not needed http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.mysql.php $dbconnect = mysql_pconnect("localhost", "username", "password"); mysql_select_db("dbname", $dbconnect); is a connection to MySQL followed selecting a database to use. HTH! Jay From mark at mountain.ch Tue May 21 10:17:04 2002 From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells) Date: Tue May 21 10:17:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Frameset display problem - IE5 / Mac Message-ID: Hello strangers. Hope you're enjoying the [insert seasonal weather here] !! I've got a problem with a client site, that has me stumped. We have a frameset in a frameset in the inner sections of the Zuger Presse website (for example at ) which fails to display fully on some instances in Ie5.0 / Mac OS9. Other browsers are fine, the Javascript onload handlers fire on the inner pages, but you can't see the content or view the source of the inner pages. Anyone come across this before? (Please mail me offlist, as I am on digest and this is quite urgent.) Screenshot at Many thanks Mark Howells From martin at takingitglobal.org Tue May 21 10:18:01 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Tue May 21 10:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question In-Reply-To: <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> Message-ID: <001701c200da$82ad9640$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> To grab data mysql_query(//SQL STATEMENT HERE//) To grab an array of data [multiple rows..] With field names as indices: mysql_fetch_assoc() <-- dreamweaver may put in mysql_fetch_array() Unless you want to use numerical indices as well as associative, use fetch_assoc, as it only grabs the fieldname-associated array data.... 'fetch_array grabs both fieldname/numerical ... So grabs all data twice. You use the following functions: mysql_connect() mysql_db_select() Etc. http://www.php.net/mysql_connect And http://www.php.net/mysql_db_select Will give you information on use, and point you to a ton of other mysql functions. :) Hth, -m ---- original ---- "How does PHP see the connection to the MySQL database and associated tables?" From Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com Tue May 21 10:25:01 2002 From: Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson) Date: Tue May 21 10:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Survey database design for storing responses to multiple-choi ce questions Message-ID: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB57E1A9@FRA-FORMULA> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Rudy, Thanks for your mind-expanding essay on foreign and primary keys (which I will reference by its archive link [http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020520/112934.html] and the link to my original message [http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020520/112921.html] instead of quoting them). I was trying to avoid using a surrogate key on tblResponses, but I hadn't thought of not having a primary key. Instead, I added a UNIQUE constraint on the question_id and respondent_id combination in tblResponses. Since no other table will be referencing tblResponses and I wouldn't be referencing a response_id in a WHERE clause, it should work. I did declare question_id and respondent_id as foreign keys, for referential integrity in SQL Server. --Ben From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Tue May 21 10:26:01 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Tue May 21 10:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question Message-ID: <57.bc2e2ad.2a1bc0c2@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] You are really going to love how since PHP is. Here is the basic group of steps I use to connect to the database: HTH, Nan ------------original question--------------------------- > Hi. I'm new to PHP, moving from Cold Fusion and Zope. In Cold > Fusion, to connect to a database, you need to register the database > with ODBC. This does not seem to be the case with PHP. How > does PHP see the connection to the MySQL database and > associated tables? > > In Dreamweaver MX, I seem to make a connection to the MySQL > server, but no databases or tables show up. > Nan Harbison Smith 481 Elm Street Concord, MA 01742 978-369-1224 978-369-1681 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks. From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Tue May 21 10:28:01 2002 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Tue May 21 10:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question In-Reply-To: <000201c200da$1ffbc760$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt>; from jay.blanchard@niicommunications.com on Tue, May 21, 2002 at 10:13:54AM -0500 References: <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> <000201c200da$1ffbc760$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> Message-ID: <20020521162625.A21765@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 10:13:54AM -0500, Jay Blanchard wrote: > PHP uses a native set of functions to interact with MySQL, ODBC is not > needed > http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.mysql.php And for portability of code it's worth investigating PEAR[1] DB: http://pear.php.net/manual/en/core.db.php It offers a unified system of access for MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle amongst others. G. [1] 'PHP Extension and Application Repository'. PEAR is to PHP as CPAN is to Perl From kathlyn at three.nu Tue May 21 10:31:01 2002 From: kathlyn at three.nu (Kathlyn Tilton) Date: Tue May 21 10:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C1F4@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: Thank you David for taking the time to go through my site. Your points are very well taken. Kathlyn From robin at rhastings.net Tue May 21 10:35:01 2002 From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings) Date: Tue May 21 10:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP/MySQL Newbie question In-Reply-To: <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> References: <20020521143517.685F73A9C@relay.evolt.org> <3CEA0E96.4476.8655F5D@localhost> Message-ID: <20020521153152.GB9307@12-215-229-6.client.mchsi.com> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 09:08:38AM -0600, hpinson at indepthl.com wrote: > Hi. I'm new to PHP, moving from Cold Fusion and Zope. In Cold > Fusion, to connect to a database, you need to register the database > with ODBC. This does not seem to be the case with PHP. How > does PHP see the connection to the MySQL database and > associated tables? > > In Dreamweaver MX, I seem to make a connection to the MySQL > server, but no databases or tables show up. > With PHP you can use the mysql_connect function (http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-connect.php) to connect to your database. Check the comments below for some good examples of usage. Robin robin at rhastings.net http://www.rhastings.net From rob.smith at thermon.com Tue May 21 10:35:06 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue May 21 10:35:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708AB@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I agree, with you Jonathan. This question however, will be asked throughout the ages until we find another form of communication, like telepathy. God forbid we use cell phones in the future; archaic devices. "email" is it then... for now Ummm... "What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'?" Does anyone else see the obvious reason that the spelling 'email' won in this poll? (-: Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Cartwright [mailto:mail at jasoncartwright.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:24 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Interesting question :) http://list-lingo.com ran a poll - What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'? email 34.2% e-mail 26.1% E-mail 15.3% E-Mail 14.4% Email 9.9% Wired.com had a huge debate - http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39651,00.html I tend to refer to it as just 'mail' (eg "mail me that document over") and everyone knows what I mean. But maybe that's just because I'm a geek? Jason www.jasoncartwright.com -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From BreezyGraphics at aol.com Tue May 21 10:39:00 2002 From: BreezyGraphics at aol.com (BreezyGraphics at aol.com) Date: Tue May 21 10:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Visually load images before text? Message-ID: <124.1102c6d6.2a1bc3d8@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I like to make graphic interfaces for websites. What I don't like is that the text shows up and the graphics aren't there yet. Anybody know how to let the graphics "visually" load before the text is loaded. All the preload scripts I find you can't see them till the whole page is loaded and that is not what I want. Thanks and have a great day, Breezy. From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Tue May 21 10:40:08 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Tue May 21 10:40:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site review please -- efeingold.com Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C1FA@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > A frank review, eh? You got it... Frank - Thanks! I appreciate your frankness. Josh From miriam at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 10:52:01 2002 From: miriam at members.evolt.org (Miriam Frost) Date: Tue May 21 10:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708AB@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> > Does anyone else see the obvious reason that the spelling 'email' won in > this poll? Conventional / popular usage is not always the same as correct. I believe that "e-mail" is preferred in more academic or journalistic arenas because in according to most English pronunciation rules, an initial "e" followed by a consonant is pronounced as a schwa, an unaccented vowel.* Hence: emetic emancipate emanate etcetera (Naturally, there's an exception we're all familiar with: evolt.org -- which, because of the missing hyphen, I regularly mispronounced until Dan corrected me... and then I corrected his spelling.) Until it's pronounced uh-male, not eee-male, I suggest the hyphen rules.... best, Miriam *From Merriam-Webster: "an unstressed mid-central vowel (as the usual sound of the first and last vowels of the English word America)" -- http://www.dynagirl.com They named the dictionary after me, and then spelled my name wrong.... From maurice at graciebarra.be Tue May 21 11:03:01 2002 From: maurice at graciebarra.be (maurice) Date: Tue May 21 11:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Check for cookies enabled Message-ID: Hello collective wisdom, Is there a way to see if cookies are enabled with php. Exept for sending one and trying to retrieve it? Which means (re)loading a page. Am i missing something really obvious? Thanks Maurice From evolt at stoutstreet.com Tue May 21 11:11:01 2002 From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick) Date: Tue May 21 11:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Check for cookies enabled References: Message-ID: <000b01c200e2$2d9d07f0$0300000a@pooky> Try this: http://phpsniff.sourceforge.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "maurice" To: "evolt" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: [thelist] Check for cookies enabled > Hello collective wisdom, > > Is there a way to see if cookies are enabled with php. Exept for sending one > and trying to retrieve it? Which means (re)loading a page. > > Am i missing something really obvious? > > Thanks > > > Maurice > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From joshua at waetech.com Tue May 21 11:12:00 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Tue May 21 11:12:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file References: Message-ID: <03bc01c200e2$1a425980$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Shaffer" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file > Can anyone assist in the best way to take a .bak file created in SQL 7.0 and > I need to get it into SQL 2000. It is a file from a different server so it > is not in any backup device/tape. What happens when you try an import with MSSQL 2k? -joshua From Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br Tue May 21 11:15:01 2002 From: Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br (Amazon Paulo) Date: Tue May 21 11:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Visually load images before text? Message-ID: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB08C3D541@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br> Hi Breezy, A thought: you can set the style of all the text to "display: 'none';" and, in the body onload event, call a function to turn them to 'inline'. I haven't tested it yet (graphics are not an issue to me) but maybe this can help you. /Paulo Guedes -----Original Message----- From: BreezyGraphics at aol.com [mailto:BreezyGraphics at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:38 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Visually load images before text? -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I like to make graphic interfaces for websites. What I don't like is that the text shows up and the graphics aren't there yet. Anybody know how to let the graphics "visually" load before the text is loaded. All the preload scripts I find you can't see them till the whole page is loaded and that is not what I want. Thanks and have a great day, Breezy. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From michael at tapinternet.com Tue May 21 11:15:09 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Tue May 21 11:15:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] Check for cookies enabled References: Message-ID: <3CEA7239.6000406@tapinternet.com> maurice wrote: >Hello collective wisdom, > >Is there a way to see if cookies are enabled with php. Exept for sending one >and trying to retrieve it? Which means (re)loading a page. > Nothing to do with PHP. No server side language can determine that without attempting to setting a cookie then having the client do another request. Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com 1-866-745-3660 From annie at twitch.ca Tue May 21 11:17:00 2002 From: annie at twitch.ca (Annie) Date: Tue May 21 11:17:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop Message-ID: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. Thanks! Annie _____________________ Annie Phelan Web | eLearning Developer annie at twitch.ca http://www.twitch.ca 1.403.852.3670 -- From haagj at ctcgsc.org Tue May 21 11:17:05 2002 From: haagj at ctcgsc.org (Haag, Jason) Date: Tue May 21 11:17:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] [ - Examples of Importing ML into Nutscrape or Mozilla? - ] Message-ID: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF237701590F@PEFL-PDC> Seriously, are there any websites that actually have working examples of importing xml into a page using Netscape? I read about many theoretical implementations, but no practical demos for developers. When I run alerts for debugging, Netscape 6.2 doesn't even return the proper length. http://www.tempohomes.net/xml/test/CrossBrowserXMLTest.html Try this in IE, and Try it in Netscape. Each browser returns two different lengths. Which one is correct?? This is a primary example of what I'm talking about. If both DOM and full xml support are provided, why is there still such inconsistency? Where there any website examples of successfully importing xml into Netscape 6.2 or the most recent Mozilla build online? I have updated an example file based on previous correspondence with some dev gurus @ Netscape, but still nothing works. http://www.tempohomes.net/scripts/xml_doc_format.js (This is the .js loading the xml file) http://www.tempohomes.net/xml/Navy_PFM.html (THE HTML PAGE) http://www.tempohomes.net/xml/pfm.xml (THE XML Data Source) Test in both browsers for yourself. Any feedback is welcome. From bigpant at btinternet.com Tue May 21 11:19:01 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (Bigpant) Date: Tue May 21 11:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Check for cookies enabled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c200e3$64b0cdc0$0100a8c0@p1> >Is there a way to see if cookies are enabled with php. Exept for sending >one and trying to retrieve it? Which means (re)loading a page. Sorry, Maurice, but cookies are a client side activity, so the php cookie functions need to request it from the client (similar to a post variable), and have it sent back. ie reloading the page. Phil From evolt at stoutstreet.com Tue May 21 11:21:00 2002 From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick) Date: Tue May 21 11:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: <003b01c200e3$a79d8650$0300000a@pooky> how about Edit->Step backward? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Annie" To: "Thelist" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:16 AM Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. > I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo > feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of > undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. > > Thanks! > > Annie > _____________________ > Annie Phelan > Web | eLearning Developer > annie at twitch.ca > http://www.twitch.ca > 1.403.852.3670 > > -- > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From spalmisano at usashs.com Tue May 21 11:26:00 2002 From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano) Date: Tue May 21 11:26:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: <002201c200e4$19303b50$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local> You can delete multiple states from the history menu; select which one you want to delete, right click on it and select delete, and everything from that pointe on is discarded. If its not already visible, click on Window/Show History. .Salvatore -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Annie Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:16 AM To: Thelist Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. Thanks! Annie From miriam at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 11:27:01 2002 From: miriam at members.evolt.org (Miriam Frost) Date: Tue May 21 11:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> <003b01c200e3$a79d8650$0300000a@pooky> Message-ID: <02c201c200e4$33ba8340$79cff3cd@walthers.com> > > I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo > > feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of > > undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. They didn't. Window > Show History will bring up a tab menu that has the last 25 or so steps you've taken, you can dial back as far as you want. Edit > Preferences > General will have an option for changing the number of steps it remembers. best, Miriam -- http://www.dynagirl.com making the fun go to 11 since 1971 From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Tue May 21 11:29:01 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Tue May 21 11:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: <3CEA7429.A4465F32@lightbulbpress.com> Depends which version you're on, but certainly going back to 5.5 there's the History function, which substitutes for the Multiple Undo. Granted, the lack of multiple Undo is incredibly annoying in Photoshop (and inexplicable!) but at least you can actually undo more than one level back. But maybe you knew about History already and I'm just being an annoying smartypants :) .matt Annie wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. > I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo > feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of > undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. > > Thanks! > > Annie > _____________________ > Annie Phelan > Web | eLearning Developer > annie at twitch.ca > http://www.twitch.ca > 1.403.852.3670 > > -- > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Please note the new Lightbulb Press phone numbers starting January 3: Main: 212-485-8800 Direct: 212-485-8826 From eddie at walkerslater.com Tue May 21 11:32:01 2002 From: eddie at walkerslater.com (Eddie Truman) Date: Tue May 21 11:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: Use the 'step backward / forward' function on the 'Edit' menu Eddie -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Annie Sent: 21 May 2002 16:16 To: Thelist Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. Thanks! Annie _____________________ Annie Phelan Web | eLearning Developer annie at twitch.ca http://www.twitch.ca 1.403.852.3670 From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Tue May 21 11:32:10 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Tue May 21 11:32:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop Message-ID: <16f.def541e.2a1bd056@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Annie, Go to the window menu item at the top of the screen, to the right of file, edit, image, etc., and when you have it pulled down, choose Show History, which lists every little step you perform in PhotoShop. When you want to undo a step, or a group of steps, grab those steps in the history window, and drag them to the cute little trash can at the bottom of the window. You can click on a particular step to gray it out, and have the action disappear from your image. This way you can be sure you are deleting the right action. Nan In a message dated 5/21/2002 12:17:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, annie at twitch.ca writes: > I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. > I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo > feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of > undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. > > Thanks! > > Annie Nan Harbison Smith 481 Elm Street Concord, MA 01742 978-369-1224 978-369-1681 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks. From gary at whiteroseproductions.com Tue May 21 11:33:07 2002 From: gary at whiteroseproductions.com (Gary Pool) Date: Tue May 21 11:33:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> References: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: You could do this using the "History" palette. > >I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo >feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of >undo/redo -- Gary Pool gary at whiteroseproductions.com Web Developer White Rose Productions http://www.whiteroseproductions.com "10 percent of computer users are Mac users, but remember, we are the top 10 percent." - Douglas Adams From Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com Tue May 21 11:34:02 2002 From: Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com (Ward_Conant at URSCorp.com) Date: Tue May 21 11:34:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop Message-ID: Then there's the History pallette ... Ward Conant Solution Design and Production, IT Services URS - Oak Ridge, TN tel 865.220.8154 fax 865.483.9061 "Annie" Sent by: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 05/21/2002 11:16 AM Please respond to thelist To: "Thelist" cc: Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. Thanks! Annie _____________________ Annie Phelan Web | eLearning Developer annie at twitch.ca http://www.twitch.ca 1.403.852.3670 -- -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From mrg at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 11:42:01 2002 From: mrg at members.evolt.org (matt g) Date: Tue May 21 11:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <000801c200da$712c3bb0$6465a8c0@bubbles> Message-ID: Hi Annie, There is a history feature/pallet, which allows you to go as far back as you please (or as far as memory and preferences allow). Matt > From: "Annie" > I'm trying out Adobe Photoshop 6. > I'm wondering if there is any way to turn on a multiple undo/redo > feature. I find it really annoying to be limited to only one level of > undo/redo. I can't imagine Adobe developing it this way. From jwalton at four09.org Tue May 21 11:44:01 2002 From: jwalton at four09.org (john-paul) Date: Tue May 21 11:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <3CEA7429.A4465F32@lightbulbpress.com> Message-ID: > Granted, > the lack of multiple Undo is incredibly annoying in Photoshop (and > inexplicable!) but at least you can actually undo more than one level > back. The history panel is far superior than the normal "multiple undo" concept. :: john-paul :: music :: http://www.mmodule.com :: collective :: http://www.four09.org From judah at wiredotter.com Tue May 21 11:50:01 2002 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Tue May 21 11:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion References: <3CED3400@mail.totalise.co.uk> Message-ID: <3CEA7A7E.3030603@wiredotter.com> Daniel Fascia wrote: > Has anybody had experience of using the XMLDOM functions in coldfusion by > calling the M$ COM object?? Im using this kind of structure(below) but its a > completely blind approach which isnt working since I dont know of anyone doing > this kind of thing and I dont really know CF well.. ;-( The syntax looked pretty good to me, so I can't help you there. But I can suggest a more CF-friendly way to do things perhaps. Take a look at this custom tag from SiteObjects so soXML. http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soxmloverview.cfm It acts as an easy interface between CF and the MSXML parser. It supports going to/from CF,XML, and XMLDOM and also supports XSLT transformations. The tag is free and unencrypted and appears to take some of the work out of using XML. And it makes it so you don't have to call the MS COM object directly, which I'm always in favor of. Judah From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Tue May 21 12:03:01 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Tue May 21 12:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: Message-ID: <3CEA7D30.8E8CFD18@lightbulbpress.com> I'm not saying there shouldn't be a History function, but the fact that in other Adobe products, and most products in general, you can just click command-Z several times to jump back, whereas in photoshop you have to go to the History palette to do this, is very annoying IMHO. john-paul wrote: > > Granted, > > the lack of multiple Undo is incredibly annoying in Photoshop (and > > inexplicable!) but at least you can actually undo more than one level > > back. > > The history panel is far superior than the normal "multiple undo" concept. > > :: john-paul > :: music :: http://www.mmodule.com > :: collective :: http://www.four09.org > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Please note the new Lightbulb Press phone numbers starting January 3: Main: 212-485-8800 Direct: 212-485-8826 From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Tue May 21 12:05:00 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Tue May 21 12:05:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] How wonderful you are Message-ID: Today I received (or at least had the chance to look at them, finally) two non-tips worth, oh, I don't know, actually subscribing to this list or something! One was Cygwin, which I have downloaded and go now to install on my machine; and the other was http://www.orbit.org/replace/ (ditto). Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! Can't think of a tip worth information this valuable (I value my time, and these will save hours!!), but I'm working on it. Cheers Carol S. techwatcher at accesswriters.com From pf at cfdev.com Tue May 21 12:10:00 2002 From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag) Date: Tue May 21 12:10:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion In-Reply-To: <3CEA7A7E.3030603@wiredotter.com> Message-ID: Also check out CFX_XMLParser it doesn't use the MSXML parser, written in Java is typically outperforms the MSXML parser in ColdFusion. http://www.cfdev.com/xml/ -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Judah McAuley Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:49 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion Daniel Fascia wrote: > Has anybody had experience of using the XMLDOM functions in coldfusion by > calling the M$ COM object?? Im using this kind of structure(below) but its a > completely blind approach which isnt working since I dont know of anyone doing > this kind of thing and I dont really know CF well.. ;-( The syntax looked pretty good to me, so I can't help you there. But I can suggest a more CF-friendly way to do things perhaps. Take a look at this custom tag from SiteObjects so soXML. http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soxmloverview.cfm It acts as an easy interface between CF and the MSXML parser. It supports going to/from CF,XML, and XMLDOM and also supports XSLT transformations. The tag is free and unencrypted and appears to take some of the work out of using XML. And it makes it so you don't have to call the MS COM object directly, which I'm always in favor of. Judah -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From gary at whiteroseproductions.com Tue May 21 12:19:01 2002 From: gary at whiteroseproductions.com (Gary Pool) Date: Tue May 21 12:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: <3CEA7D30.8E8CFD18@lightbulbpress.com> References: <3CEA7D30.8E8CFD18@lightbulbpress.com> Message-ID: Give me a history palette every time. There is nothing like control, if you just hit command (control)-Z several times, oops I went too far... oh well start over again. I really like the control a history palette gives you. >I'm not saying there shouldn't be a History function, but the fact that in >other Adobe products, and most products in general, you can just click >command-Z several times to jump back, whereas in photoshop you have to go to >the History palette to do this, is very annoying IMHO. -- Gary Pool gary at whiteroseproductions.com Web Developer White Rose Productions http://www.whiteroseproductions.com "10 percent of computer users are Mac users, but remember, we are the top 10 percent." - Douglas Adams From morgan at morgankelsey.com Tue May 21 12:22:01 2002 From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (nagrom) Date: Tue May 21 12:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: <3CEA7D30.8E8CFD18@lightbulbpress.com> Message-ID: <001c01c200eb$fd5fbe20$0b01a8c0@nagrom> matt, on the pc, crtl-alt-z steps backwards, and crtl-shift-z moves forwards. on the mac its cmd-ctrl for backwards, cmd-shift for forwards. a little annoying, but you *can* step forward and backwards indefinitely without using the palette. > I'm not saying there shouldn't be a History function, but the fact that in > other Adobe products, and most products in general, you can just click > command-Z several times to jump back, whereas in photoshop you have to go to > the History palette to do this, is very annoying IMHO. > From webguy at mail.rit.edu Tue May 21 12:25:00 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Tue May 21 12:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think what Matt is getting at is that it would be nice if multiple undoes would send you up the history palette, as opposed to you have to manually ascend said palette. =) I agree! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > Give me a history palette every time. > > There is nothing like control, if you just hit command (control)-Z > several times, oops I went too far... oh well start over again. > > I really like the control a history palette gives you. From keith at geonetric.com Tue May 21 13:13:01 2002 From: keith at geonetric.com (Keith Shaffer) Date: Tue May 21 13:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file In-Reply-To: <03bc01c200e2$1a425980$4300a8c0@client1> Message-ID: If I try to do an import it chokes saying it cannot find the selected row delimeter. If I try to restore it through a query I get:"Cannot open backup device 'c:\ipartner_db_200205150203.BAK'. Device error or device off-line." -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joshua Olson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:11 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Shaffer" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: [thelist] restoring a sql db from bak file > Can anyone assist in the best way to take a .bak file created in SQL 7.0 and > I need to get it into SQL 2000. It is a file from a different server so it > is not in any backup device/tape. What happens when you try an import with MSSQL 2k? -joshua -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From jdowdell at macromedia.com Tue May 21 13:55:01 2002 From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) Date: Tue May 21 13:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop Message-ID: At 10:00 AM 5/21/2, Matt wrote: >I'm not saying there shouldn't be a History function, but the fact that in >other Adobe products, and most products in general, you can just click >command-Z several times to jump back, whereas in photoshop you have to go to >the History palette to do this, is very annoying IMHO. It's a little harder for a pixel-editing programs, because many actions are actually one-way operations upon large collections of data. For example, how would you un-do a blur? If you perform the corresponding sharpen you're actually doing two discrete operations, and the resulting data will almost certainly differ from the original data. A pixel-processing program is different from a word-processing program or vector-drawing program. That's why the History Panel there saves your preferred number of previous states on disk, and reverts to a stored state when desired. jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Ghostwritten column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ From timfm at hawaii.rr.com Tue May 21 14:17:01 2002 From: timfm at hawaii.rr.com (Timothy Martens) Date: Tue May 21 14:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Keyboards Shortcut? Message-ID: <000301c200fc$d9a43090$0cac0842@hal> Is there a shortcut to move between layers in PS6 (PC)? t. From jdowdell at macromedia.com Tue May 21 14:21:00 2002 From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell) Date: Tue May 21 14:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? Message-ID: At 5:07 PM 5/20/2, Melody Kerchhoff wrote: > Does anyone know how to create a dotted line as a border for an > object in Fireworks 4? ... Please help if you can and be as specific > as possible when telling me what to do. Like I said, I am blonde > after all:) That's okay, I just ate a big burrito, so I'm a little logy myself.... ;-) Technotes are your friend! Try doing a search on "dotted" in the Fireworks technotes to pull up a variety of articles on this subject: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Ghostwritten column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Tue May 21 14:26:01 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Tue May 21 14:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Undo in Photoshop References: Message-ID: <3CEA9EFD.7BC25057@lightbulbpress.com> And yet isn't that what the History panel does? I'm curious, whats the difference between clicking control-Z 6 times, vs. clicking 6 lines up in the History palette? John Dowdell wrote: > It's a little harder for a pixel-editing programs, because many actions are > actually one-way operations upon large collections of data. > > For example, how would you un-do a blur? If you perform the corresponding > sharpen you're actually doing two discrete operations, and the resulting > data will almost certainly differ from the original data. > > A pixel-processing program is different from a word-processing program or > vector-drawing program. That's why the History Panel there saves your > preferred number of previous states on disk, and reverts to a stored state > when desired. > > jd > > John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco > (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) > Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ > Ghostwritten column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ > Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- Please note the new Lightbulb Press phone numbers starting January 3: Main: 212-485-8800 Direct: 212-485-8826 From CDitty at email.usps.gov Tue May 21 14:31:00 2002 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty) Date: Tue May 21 14:31:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Message-ID: <0033000064843588000002L082*@MHS> I am trying to write a little program that when I send an email to a certain address, the program will parse all the information in that email and do various things with that information. Example, You send an email to my support email address. When the server receives this email message, it gets all the header information and puts the appropriate information in the database. I know this should be possible. But I am having a hard time getting my head around how the parsing process would work. I know how to run a script when an email is received, but how do I read the email on the fly? Does this make sense? :) This is a reuse of an old tip, but still a goodie. This javascript snippet will show/hide the table borders on the active webpage. javascript:for(i=0;i From Anthony at Baratta.com Tue May 21 14:39:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue May 21 14:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... In-Reply-To: <0033000064843588000002L082*@MHS> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020521123407.01ba46c8@baratta.com> At 12:25 PM 5/21/2002, Chris Ditty wrote: >I am trying to write a little program that when I send an email to a certain >address, the program will parse all the information in that email and do >various >things with that information. It depends upon you local mail system. SendMail or Qmail should just pass the contents of the email to the executed script. At least that's how SendMail and MajorDomo work. -- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com Tue May 21 14:43:01 2002 From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone) Date: Tue May 21 14:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] problem with SlideShow js from Dynamic Drive - UPDATE References: <031b01c1ff78$e2263e00$230ae343@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00ae01c200ff$68f45a20$f90ae343@oemcomputer> am replying to my question (<8 problem 1 is solved. However, problem 2 isn't. I still can't get the javascript code to validate in either HTML 4.01 Trans or XHTML 1.0 Trans. Could someone take a look? Maybe this a losing battle. http://www.24caratdesign.com/Kendall/featuresJS.html Sharon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sharon F. Malone "web design and Internet writing services" http://www.24caratdesign.com sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com From jonhall at ozline.net Tue May 21 14:48:03 2002 From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall) Date: Tue May 21 14:48:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion References: <3CED34E5@mail.totalise.co.uk> Message-ID: <007201c20100$69c26310$a41f88d8@ns2> Try this...assuming you have MSXML 4, and if you don't, go download it. objXMLDOM = CreateObject("COM", "msxml2.DOMDocument.4.0"); objXMLDOM.async = false; XMLloadSuccess = objXMLDOM.load("http://localhost/test.xml"); writeOutput(XMLloadSuccess); ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Fascia" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:00 AM Subject: [thelist] Using XMLDOM with Coldfusion > Has anybody had experience of using the XMLDOM functions in coldfusion by > calling the M$ COM object?? Im using this kind of structure(below) but its a > completely blind approach which isnt working since I dont know of anyone doing > this kind of thing and I dont really know CF well.. ;-( > > > > > > > > > > #stuff# > > > Clearly this is wrong and doesnt work... I dont understand how to access the > .text property of a selected node. > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From CDitty at email.usps.gov Tue May 21 14:52:03 2002 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty) Date: Tue May 21 14:52:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Message-ID: <0033000064847107000002L072*@MHS> Correct. I know how to run the program when an email is received, but what format is the email in when the program gets it? Also, how would I go about handling the information? I also forgot to mention that I am using sendmail. Chris -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:39 PM To: Chris Ditty; thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... At 12:25 PM 5/21/2002, Chris Ditty wrote: >I am trying to write a little program that when I send an email to a certain >address, the program will parse all the information in that email and do >various >things with that information. It depends upon you local mail system. SendMail or Qmail should just pass the contents of the email to the executed script. At least that's how SendMail and MajorDomo work. -- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 14:57:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 14:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... References: <0033000064843588000002L082*@MHS> Message-ID: <3CEAA795.4020605@macrovista.net> Chris Ditty wrote: >I know this should be possible. But I am having a hard time getting my head >around how the >parsing process would work. I know how to run a script when an email is >received, but how do >I read the email on the fly? > > > Lets say, perchance, your script is in perl. Your message should be waiting for you on %1 -- your input stream >Does this make sense? :) > > Not quite sure! :) From dmah at shaw.ca Tue May 21 15:01:00 2002 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Tue May 21 15:01:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... In-Reply-To: <0033000064847107000002L072*@MHS> Message-ID: <200205211956.g4LJuxx02065@alice.monkeyland.ca> You can take a look at the old tip harvester for an example. See: http://evolt.org/article/evolt_org_Source_Code/9741/12457/index.html and RFC 822: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html Dean Chris Ditty writes: > Correct. I know how to run the program when an email is received, but what > format is the email in when the program gets it? Also, how would I go about > handling the information? > > I also forgot to mention that I am using sendmail. > > Chris From martin at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 15:01:11 2002 From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin) Date: Tue May 21 15:01:11 2002 Subject: [thelist] Content Publishing Systems Squash News Design Message-ID: Jay wrote: > [snip] > [watch wrap] > http://www.editorandpublisher.com/editorandpublisher/features_columns/articl > e_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1484602 > [/watch wrap] > [/snip] > > quote... > "The typical content management system offers "layout tools, not design > tools." He says that template page creation offered by content > management > systems will seldom suffice from the designer's perspective; they can't > offer anywhere near the page-design capabilities of software tools like > DreamWeaver (for Web pages) or Quark Xpress (for print)." Hm. Generally once a publication's style (in any given medium) is set, designers don't get much control over it - a choice of templates, a bit of typography, but little else. And in the newspaper world? Almost none (and yes, I've worked in pre-press on major newspapers - zero creativity permitted. The closest designers came was in production of information graphics) The article says: "That's quite a change from the "old days" when Web content was hot and money was being thrown at figuring out how to present stories on the Internet in innovative ways." Yes, that was the sign of an immature industry which didn't know what worked - what got people reading Now in the case cited, yes, it probably is a bit limiting that the whole group's publications are delivered to the same few templates. But that's a management decision, so that's where the blame lies. If management won't permit the development and implementation of multiple templates to reflect the sub-brands of each publication, take your whining to them. The article says: "Programmers often balk at requests to set up multiple templates, and to make the templates flexible enough to satisfy designers' requests." No, programmers balk at doing more work than is possible within the time and budget allowed. If designers don't understand what's possible within the time and budget, that's their problem. Sounds to me like it's a branding led decision anyway: "We don't want all these sub-brands. From now we will be consistent". A very typical (if short-sighted) play for a new conglomerate. Actually, the article says so: "the goal was to emphasize Real Cities and realize economic savings across the network -- this is akin to creating a new radio or television network " There you go - parent brand at the expense of existing sub-brands and "Ryan defends the uniform multi-site design, saying that the old way of maintaining unique Web sites at each newspaper was simply not financially viable any longer if the company expected to make its Internet operations profitable long term." Exactly. Paying for design on multiple publications? Can't afford it. Paying for design on a page level on multiple publications? *Really* can't afford it. Besides, isn't this a bit of tail trying to wag dog? Do the readers of a publication give a rat's ass how the precious designers feel? Unless you're a boutique design publication, no. Do the owners? Clearly not. Naturally, the author has a very mistaken concept of who is the tail and who the dog: "As more of the industry moves to sophisticated online publishing systems, more attention should be paid to design flexibility. These publishing systems and network-wide efficiencies should not be allowed to wag the dog." Sorry, designers, if you think you're the dog in a publishing environment, then frankly you need to grow up a bit. Actually, from a business point of view, reducing the work of the designer in the production flow has major advantages: 1) Increased Speed 2) Reduced Cost (not least the cost of designers, as well as the opportunity cost of the time spent) 3) Reduced risk of producing something off-brand 4) Reduced levels of ego Throw a designer into the workflow of a daily newspaper (*especially* a multi-edition one) and it will start falling over very soon. Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From mike at combsnet.com Tue May 21 15:04:01 2002 From: mike at combsnet.com (Mike Combs) Date: Tue May 21 15:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Default font size? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521154458.00b107d8@pop.quallaby.com> I've built a style sheet that doesn't assign a specific size to the main content text. I figured using the browser's default size would be best. All of the other text sizes are calculated to be relative to that default. (Headings are 150%, small print is 70%, etc.) The thing is, the content text just looks too big, especially when compared to major portals like Yahoo, Netscape, MSN, Lycos, etc. I realize that visitors can just resize the text when they visit my site, but expecting them to change the browser when they enter and exit my site seems a bit much. Is the whole world (wide web) based on a 90% font size? Is the browser base text size reserved for headings? I just wanted to see where people think the newer web site designs are going on this. Mike Combs "Wiring the Batcave" mike at combsnet.com http://www.CombsNet.com http://www.GothamCityUSA.com Yahoo Messenger: http://edit.yahoo.com/config/send_webmesg?.target=mcombs64 From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 15:05:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 15:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... References: <0033000064847107000002L072*@MHS> Message-ID: <3CEAA962.1000009@macrovista.net> Chris Ditty wrote: >Correct. I know how to run the program when an email is received, but what >format is the email in when the program gets it? Also, how would I go about >handling the information? > >I also forgot to mention that I am using sendmail. > > Well, now that you know how to fire the script, and you know how to access the message contents, just try outputing the message to see what the formatting looks like. The question of how to handle the information is open ended. How do you want to handle it? Search for newlines. These separate each line of the header from the next. Search for a blank line. This marks the end of the header and the beginning of the remainder of the message body. Search for MIME content demarkers. These mark the beginning of attachments. Strictly off the top of my head, I think RFC 821 defines SMTP, RFC 822 talks about the format of email headers, and RFCs 2045 and 2046 define MIME extentions to 822. You can learn absolutely everything you need to know from these. Sendmail, which manages your incoming SMTP service, will deliver the email to your script exactly as SMTP recieves it. --Steve From CDitty at email.usps.gov Tue May 21 15:10:01 2002 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty) Date: Tue May 21 15:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Message-ID: <0033000064849786000002L062*@MHS> Sorry again....I am doing this in php. It has been a LONG bad day. :( But I can pretend in perl. :) %1? <--- Perl thingy? Chris -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:57 PM To: Chris Ditty; thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Chris Ditty wrote: >I know this should be possible. But I am having a hard time getting my head >around how the >parsing process would work. I know how to run a script when an email is >received, but how do >I read the email on the fly? > > > Lets say, perchance, your script is in perl. Your message should be waiting for you on %1 -- your input stream >Does this make sense? :) > > Not quite sure! :) -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evolt at gmx.net Tue May 21 15:17:00 2002 From: evolt at gmx.net (Gijs van Tulder) Date: Tue May 21 15:17:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... In-Reply-To: <0033000064849786000002L062*@MHS> Message-ID: Chris, I recently wrote something like you want. Here's the code, take a look at. Perhaps it's useful. #!/usr/local/bin/php -q From Anthony at Baratta.com Tue May 21 15:19:00 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue May 21 15:19:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... In-Reply-To: <0033000064849786000002L062*@MHS> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020521131704.02b16350@baratta.com> At 01:04 PM 5/21/2002, Chris Ditty wrote: >Sorry again....I am doing this in php. It has been a LONG bad day. :( >But I can pretend in perl. :) If you are using PHP, do you have PHP compiled as a stand alone binary?? -- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From a_j_dalton at hotmail.com Tue May 21 15:26:01 2002 From: a_j_dalton at hotmail.com (AJ Dalton) Date: Tue May 21 15:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: Did you leave out one: "e-Mail"? This (above) might, in fact, be valid. Many brands are "e-Something" - like "e-Machines" computers. FWIW, AJ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From CDitty at email.usps.gov Tue May 21 15:26:08 2002 From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty) Date: Tue May 21 15:26:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Message-ID: <0033000064852503000002L032*@MHS> See below...... -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:04 PM To: Chris Ditty; thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... Well, now that you know how to fire the script, and you know how to access the message contents, -snip- That's just it. I don't know how to access the message contents. -snip- just try outputing the message to see what the formatting looks like. The question of how to handle the information is open ended. How do you want to handle it? Search for newlines. These separate each line of the header from the next. Search for a blank line. This marks the end of the header and the beginning of the remainder of the message body. Search for MIME content demarkers. These mark the beginning of attachments. -snip- Thanks. Did not know this. Once I figure out how to access the message contents, I should be good to go. -snip- From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 15:30:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 15:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Reading emails on the fly......... References: <0033000064849786000002L062*@MHS> Message-ID: <3CEAAF3C.7000806@macrovista.net> Chris Ditty wrote: >%1? <--- Perl thingy? > > Right. %1 is your stdin or standard input stream or whatever you want to call it. There is a way to read stdin in PHP but it requires that PHP is being run as a compiled CGI, not as an Apache mod, I believe. --Steve From bill at webmarketingworx.com Tue May 21 15:36:00 2002 From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel) Date: Tue May 21 15:36:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's my problem... I have 2 tables: table1 and table2 table1 has three fields: one_id, one_name, two_id table2 has two fields: two_id, two_name I want to select table1.one_name where table1.two_id matches any of the table2.two_id's where table2.two_name != 'George'. I have a feeling I'm nuts. Am I? If not, how would I do it? Thanks a mil. BH From howcheng at ix.netcom.com Tue May 21 15:42:01 2002 From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng) Date: Tue May 21 15:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521133947.00b089e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> You've pretty much got it already: SELECT table1.one_name FROM table1, table2 WHERE table1.two_id = table2.two_id AND table2.two_name != 'George' At 04:35 PM 5/16/2002 -0400, Bill Haenel wrote: >I have 2 tables: table1 and table2 > >table1 has three fields: one_id, one_name, two_id > >table2 has two fields: two_id, two_name > >I want to select table1.one_name where table1.two_id matches any of the >table2.two_id's where table2.two_name != 'George'. :::::::::::::::::::::: Howard Cheng howcheng at ix.netcom.com AIM: bennyphoebe ICQ: 47319315 From howcheng at ix.netcom.com Tue May 21 15:42:06 2002 From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng) Date: Tue May 21 15:42:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521133947.00b089e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> You've pretty much got it already: SELECT table1.one_name FROM table1, table2 WHERE table1.two_id = table2.two_id AND table2.two_name != 'George' At 04:35 PM 5/16/2002 -0400, Bill Haenel wrote: >I have 2 tables: table1 and table2 > >table1 has three fields: one_id, one_name, two_id > >table2 has two fields: two_id, two_name > >I want to select table1.one_name where table1.two_id matches any of the >table2.two_id's where table2.two_name != 'George'. :::::::::::::::::::::: Howard Cheng howcheng at ix.netcom.com AIM: bennyphoebe ICQ: 47319315 From MPlunkett at MSA.com Tue May 21 15:45:00 2002 From: MPlunkett at MSA.com (Plunkett, Matt) Date: Tue May 21 15:45:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins Message-ID: maybe? select table1.one_name from table1, table2 where table1.two_id = table2.two_id and table2.two_name <> 'George' -----Original Message----- From: Bill Haenel [SMTP:bill at webmarketingworx.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 4:35 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins Here's my problem... I have 2 tables: table1 and table2 table1 has three fields: one_id, one_name, two_id table2 has two fields: two_id, two_name I want to select table1.one_name where table1.two_id matches any of the table2.two_id's where table2.two_name != 'George'. I have a feeling I'm nuts. Am I? If not, how would I do it? Thanks a mil. BH -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Tue May 21 15:56:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Tue May 21 15:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Message-ID: And that's exactly why 'e-Mail' should *not* be correct. Brand names ought to be capitalized (e.g. "e-Mac"). Common English words (such as 'mail') usually shouldn't be. FWIW, JM -----Original Message----- From: AJ Dalton [mailto:a_j_dalton at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:26 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Did you leave out one: "e-Mail"? This (above) might, in fact, be valid. Many brands are "e-Something" - like "e-Machines" computers. FWIW, AJ From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 16:02:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (r937 at interlog.com) Date: Tue May 21 16:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane Message-ID: To type a poem, I use the Enter/Return key to start a new line, right? here's a sample poem notice it has three text lines not a cap in sight So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? (That was a rhetorical question; I know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) My question is: how do I turn this off? The friggin paper clip is no use. I've been all through all the bloody options and tools and properties and so on. Nada. At least, I couldn't find it. I have discovered that I can highlight entire blocks of text and change everything to lowercase, but that's not what I'm looking for. I just want it not to touch the first character on the line. I owe a tip, but I believe I have a few stockpiled. Rudy From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Tue May 21 16:09:02 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Tue May 21 16:09:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane Message-ID: <188.83d2bcd.2a1c114f@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Go to the menu item called 'format', click on 'autoformat', click on 'options' button, under the autocorrect tab heading uncheck the box that says 'capitalize first letter of sentences'. Nan In a message dated 5/21/2002 5:02:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, r937 at interlog.com writes: > To type a poem, I use the Enter/Return key to start a new line, right? > > here's a sample poem > notice it has three text lines > not a cap in sight > > So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? > (That was a > rhetorical question; I > know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) > > My question is: how do I turn this off? > > The friggin paper clip is no use. I've been all through all the bloody > options and tools > and properties > and so on. Nada. At least, I couldn't find it. > > I have discovered that I can highlight entire blocks of text and change > everything to > lowercase, but > that's not what I'm looking for. I just want it not to touch the first > character on the > line. > > I owe a tip, but I believe I have a few stockpiled. > > Rudy Nan Harbison Smith 481 Elm Street Concord, MA 01742 978-369-1224 978-369-1681 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks. From spalmisano at usashs.com Tue May 21 16:12:00 2002 From: spalmisano at usashs.com (Salvatore Palmisano) Date: Tue May 21 16:12:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c2010c$24376280$0e00a8c0@shsnet.local> Exact keystrokes will depend on your version: Tools/Autocorrect/Capitalize Beginning of Sentences .Salvatore -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of r937 at interlog.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:59 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? (That was a rhetorical question; I know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) My question is: how do I turn this off? From michele at wordpro.on.ca Tue May 21 16:17:01 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Tue May 21 16:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane References: Message-ID: <004301c2010c$c0856c40$bc4ffea9@dansk.ca> Rudy, You don't say what version of Word .. if it's 97 .. then the options might be different or not at all the same. Give me a shout off list if that's the case and I'll try to dig deeper in the memory bank. For Word 2000: Insert, AutoText, AutoText, go to Auto Correct.; Deselect the second option... and any other helpers you don't want. Also check autoformat as you type and autoformat to turn off other annoying helpers. Ok/close all the way out. Check under Tools, AutoCorrect and make sure the above is also applied there. (Don't ask me why its in more than once place. I think that's it .. If not, holler and I'll see what else I can dig up. Presumably, these changes will affect your normal template... Word will probably ask if you want to save it .. you do. However, you may find that these changes are not applied to documents already created. So, if you have your own templates that you use on a regular basis, the changes have to be done to each of the unique templates. HTH, Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: | So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? (That was a | rhetorical question; I | know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) | | My question is: how do I turn this off? | From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com Tue May 21 16:21:00 2002 From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann) Date: Tue May 21 16:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tools...autocorrect... uncheck capitalize first letter of sentences. (Word2k). There's treasure trove of other MS 'goodies' you can disable as well. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of r937 at interlog.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:59 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane To type a poem, I use the Enter/Return key to start a new line, right? here's a sample poem notice it has three text lines not a cap in sight So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? (That was a rhetorical question; I know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) My question is: how do I turn this off? The friggin paper clip is no use. I've been all through all the bloody options and tools and properties and so on. Nada. At least, I couldn't find it. I have discovered that I can highlight entire blocks of text and change everything to lowercase, but that's not what I'm looking for. I just want it not to touch the first character on the line. I owe a tip, but I believe I have a few stockpiled. Rudy -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From roselli at earthlink.net Tue May 21 16:23:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue May 21 16:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200205212122.g4LLMLPS019605@leo.evolt.org> > From: r937 at interlog.com [...] > My question is: how do I turn this off? [...] i resolve this by using WordPad... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From Anthony at Baratta.com Tue May 21 16:27:00 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Tue May 21 16:27:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020521142446.02b23650@baratta.com> At 09:58 AM 5/21/2002, r937 at interlog.com wrote: >So why does Word insist on capitalizing the first letter of each line? >(That was a >rhetorical question; I >know the answer -- Microsoft is trying to, ahem, *help* me.) > >My question is: how do I turn this off? Word 2000: Options : Spelling & Grammer Grammer Either uncheck the options Check as you type and Check with spelling, or click the Settings button and customize what it checks. One of the options there is Capitalization. -- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From webguru at vsnl.net Tue May 21 16:35:01 2002 From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon) Date: Tue May 21 16:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <20020521170214.044C1C1B4@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522025212.0317d3c0@203.197.12.4> At 10:32 PM 5/21/2002, Jonathan wrote: >Wired thinks it is hyphenated, and goes into great detail about why. >http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html Amazingly, they take 3 pages to explain it, the first two of which are a waste of space and bandwidth. Verbosity at its worst. Oh, I forgot that they're part of the "split articles unnecessarily into multiple page so readers see more ads" brigade. :) I prefer e-mail too, because email looks, well, funny. Of course, now that it's become a verb, it's not that bad, I guess. I'd like to share an interesting observation about multi-page stories from the time I was Webmaster of the now defunct CNET India. There were many stories that we'd take from the CNET USA site and reproduce them on the Indian site. Following the US site's convention, we too would split up our features into multiple pages. Our stats told us the painful truth. The number of people who'd click to the next page in a multi-page story would drop by almost 50% for every extra page we had. So on a 5-page story, only about 6% of the users who read the first page would actually go all the way to page 5. Unfortunately, with only minor deviation, this statistic was true for almost *all* multi-page stories we published, regardless of the content. We learned our lesson. Since then, we made them all one-page stories. Traffic went up. (If anyone would like to respond to the above anecdote, please do change the subject line :) Regards, Madhu <<< * >>> Madhu Menon User Experience Consultant e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 16:51:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (r937 at interlog.com) Date: Tue May 21 16:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane Message-ID: format > autoformat > options > autocorrect that was it, thanks a million, nan, salvatore, et al... and my mom thanks you too (i'm sending this via webmail from her xp machine) i debated the wordpad route, aardvark, but she already has a few blank templates set up (by her computer-literate grandkids) dunno why i couldn't find those options, eh it's not like they were hidden away or anything stupid bloody paper clip was no use, either i hate microsoft with a roaring passion i owe a couple more tips, now rudy From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 16:54:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 16:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] multi-page articles and reader retention References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522025212.0317d3c0@203.197.12.4> Message-ID: <3CEAC306.8070308@macrovista.net> Madhu Menon wrote: > Our stats told us the painful truth. The number of people who'd click to > the next page in a multi-page story would drop by almost 50% for every > extra page we had. So on a 5-page story, only about 6% of the users who > read the first page would actually go all the way to page 5. > Unfortunately, > with only minor deviation, this statistic was true for almost *all* > multi-page stories we published, regardless of the content. > > We learned our lesson. Since then, we made them all one-page stories. > Traffic went up. > This has me really curious because of the implications of what you are saying to the design of the CMS I work on. What do you mean traffic went up? The number of visits to the articles were higher than the number of visits to the first page of multi-page articles? Could this be explained by any other phenomena (increased popularity and general readership of CNET India?) I would point out that you cannot track the number of folks who actually read the full length of an article when it is one page rather than the first 20% (based off what was once a 5-page story). --Steve From bigpant at btinternet.com Tue May 21 17:02:00 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (Bigpant) Date: Tue May 21 17:02:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP 2D array sort In-Reply-To: <3CEA4000.5060009@phreaker.net> Message-ID: <002a01c20113$42a12a60$0100a8c0@p1> >I put together somthing a while back that performed this type of thing. Thanks for that, Michael. I sure understand user defined sorting better now! It wasn't quite what I was looking for, though, but I came up with the (an) answer: I have a static web search function that counts the number of terms found in each url. Hence the array(array("result" => "", "qty" => 0)). I want to display the results with the most first, so I need to sort 'qty', but keep the keys the same in 'result'. I used this: $a = array(array("qty" => 0, "result" => "")); $a['result'][] = "two"; $a['qty'][] = 2; $a['result'][] = "one"; $a['qty'][] = 1; asort($a['qty']); while (list($key, $value) = each($a['qty'])) { echo "($key) $value - " . $a['result'][$key]; echo "
"; } Once I figured that I simply needed to *order* the 'qty' element, and not necessarily alter the keys, I had it sussed. Phil From szh at hotpop.com Tue May 21 17:03:05 2002 From: szh at hotpop.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Tue May 21 17:03:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <20020521170306.3BF413C00@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <004d01c2010f$476da360$e30587cb@haidersystem> Hi Jonathan, I think, less typing. "Email" needs an extra hit for Shift key. Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 07:58:15 -0700 Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Ummm... "What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'?" Does anyone else see the obvious reason that the spelling 'email' won in this poll? (-: Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Cartwright [mailto:mail at jasoncartwright.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:24 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Interesting question :) http://list-lingo.com ran a poll - What is the correct spelling of the word 'email'? email 34.2% e-mail 26.1% E-mail 15.3% E-Mail 14.4% Email 9.9% Wired.com had a huge debate - http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,39450,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39651,00.html I tend to refer to it as just 'mail' (eg "mail me that document over") and everyone knows what I mean. But maybe that's just because I'm a geek? Jason www.jasoncartwright.com From rob.smith at thermon.com Tue May 21 17:03:13 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Tue May 21 17:03:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS problem Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708B7@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi list, Unfortunately I cannot provide a visual example of my problem, but image this... I have 3 div's named left, center, and right, aligned respectively. What settings of my .css file do I need to include so that each of the three fields don't overlap one another? Thanks in advance, Rob Smith From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 17:04:43 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 17:04:43 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins - ANSI 92 syntax References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521133947.00b089e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3CEAC553.1030706@macrovista.net> Howard Cheng wrote: > You've pretty much got it already: > > SELECT table1.one_name > FROM table1, table2 > WHERE table1.two_id = table2.two_id > AND table2.two_name != 'George' I have been digging into SQL stuff rather heavily lately and wanted to pull some of that reading out into application. As I understand it, this syntax is not ANSI 92 compliant and there is a good reason that the standard doesn't support this syntax (potential ambiguities in order of joins when you mix inner and outer joins). Granted, this query is simple enough (relatively) that there is no potential ambiguity for the parser, but I prefer to cultivate good habits. Am I correct however in this understanding? ANSI 92 syntax would make the join explicit in the FROM clause, rather than in the WHERE clause: SELECT table1.one_name FROM table1 INNER JOIN table2 ON table1.two_id = table2.two_id WHERE table2.two_name != 'George' --Steve From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Tue May 21 17:25:01 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Tue May 21 17:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] MySQL newbie question - which version? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521180521.02557440@mail.idirect.ca> Ok I did one site with ASP and an Access database and I have had enough. I have begun to learn some SQL especially with MySQL. Which version is best to learn with, the later version 4's or the stable 3.23? Can testing with 4 on my own system be applied to the real world where 3.23 is used? Peter Kaulback From emeyer at lclark.edu Tue May 21 17:31:00 2002 From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer) Date: Tue May 21 17:31:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >To type a poem, I use the Enter/Return key to start a new line, right? > > here's a sample poem > notice it has three text lines > not a cap in sight HA HA HA HA HA! I know exactly how you feel, Rudy. oh my do I know how you feel. >My question is: how do I turn this off? I found out once, now I forget. word sucks word sucks word sucks I am a notorious, rabid, obsessive Word-hater. (except version 4 and below which I like ok.) >The friggin paper clip is no use. oh yeah, right, pick on the poor paper clip. Like *that* hasn't been done before. (BTW woman once I was tutoring in word saw that thing pop-up and said "what on earth is that??? a birth control device?") Rudy, it looks like you're typing hate mail. Would you like help? Erika -- From emeyer at lclark.edu Tue May 21 17:40:01 2002 From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer) Date: Tue May 21 17:40:01 2002 Subject: Photoshop Tip (was: Re: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane) Message-ID: what??? this was the LIST not the CHAT? Rudy!!!!!! Got a crooked image you need to level out? In Photoshop find the little measure tool (it looks like a short ruler and it may be found as an eyedropper option in Mac PS 6 - other versions it is elsewhere) and draw a line along the current bottom angle of the image. Then go to image > rotate > arbitrary. The default choice highlighted in the box will be what you need to straighten out the image. Hit "OK" and the image will rotate so that the bottom is horizontal. Erika -- From slewis at macrovista.net Tue May 21 17:45:03 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Tue May 21 17:45:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] MySQL newbie question - which version? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521180521.02557440@mail.idirect.ca> Message-ID: <3CEACEFC.7020200@macrovista.net> Peter Kaulback wrote: > Ok I did one site with ASP and an Access database and I have had > enough. I > have begun to learn some SQL especially with MySQL. Which version is best > to learn with, the later version 4's or the stable 3.23? > Can testing with 4 on my own system be applied to the real world where > 3.23 > is used? > > Peter Kaulback > There are huge differences between MySQL 3.23 and 4 -- I have not used 4 yet either. If you know ASP you will probably find PHP to be an acceptable alternative, language differences are important but you should be able to transition those two pretty easily (as opposed to learning PERL from and ASP background). I would recommend you tinker with MySQL 3.23 first. Once you get in the habit of writting queries without subqueries and unions and transactions and ver 4 is official, then transition. Using different versions of a database on live and development environments is asking for trouble, and your SQL will get alot better when you have to work blindfolded with one arm behind your back! ;) There is value in learning to drive on a Pinto when you know you will get to upgrade to a Porche (or Subaru WRX or whatever your flavor of auto would be). --Steve From g1notami at zoominternet.net Tue May 21 17:46:01 2002 From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D.Bruce Saurer) Date: Tue May 21 17:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Photoshop Keyboards Shortcut? References: <000301c200fc$d9a43090$0cac0842@hal> Message-ID: <00b501c20119$575cb9a0$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Martens" > Is there a shortcut to move between layers in PS6 (PC)? On a PC...Alt+[ or ] to nav the layers Ctrl+[ or ] to move them bruce g1notami at zoominternet.net From sgd at ti3.com Tue May 21 18:38:01 2002 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Tue May 21 18:38:01 2002 Subject: Photoshop Tip (was: Re: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving meinsane) Message-ID: > > Then go to image > rotate > arbitrary. The default choice > highlighted in the box will be what you need to straighten > out the image. Hit "OK" and the image will rotate so that > the bottom is horizontal. > What's nice (Thank you, Adobe) is that in previous versions of PS, you had to pop up the little info palette, draw your line, noting the angle it is in the palette, and then enter it into the Rotate>Arbitrary dialog. Anyway, I'm rambling. Horse of a different color: Ethernet cables need to be at *minimum* 3 feet in length. Strange stuff can happen if they're shorter. sgd From szh at hotpop.com Tue May 21 19:01:01 2002 From: szh at hotpop.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Tue May 21 19:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <20020521170306.3BF413C00@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <005801c20110$e8be8620$e30587cb@haidersystem> Hi Miriam, I agree with you. You have a strong opinion. I wanted to say the same thing but couldn't describe that good. Thanks! Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Frost" To: Subject: Re: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:50:31 -0500 Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Does anyone else see the obvious reason that the spelling 'email' won in > this poll? Conventional / popular usage is not always the same as correct. I believe that "e-mail" is preferred in more academic or journalistic arenas because in according to most English pronunciation rules, an initial "e" followed by a consonant is pronounced as a schwa, an unaccented vowel.* Hence: emetic emancipate emanate etcetera (Naturally, there's an exception we're all familiar with: evolt.org -- which, because of the missing hyphen, I regularly mispronounced until Dan corrected me... and then I corrected his spelling.) Until it's pronounced uh-male, not eee-male, I suggest the hyphen rules.... best, Miriam *From Merriam-Webster: "an unstressed mid-central vowel (as the usual sound of the first and last vowels of the English word America)" -- http://www.dynagirl.com They named the dictionary after me, and then spelled my name wrong.... From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 19:39:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue May 21 19:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane Message-ID: <01c20128$f2d28e00$c3e8059a@rudy> > Rudy, it looks like you're typing hate mail. > Would you like help? no thanks, i can write good hate with the best of them ;o) > what??? this was the LIST not the CHAT? Rudy!!!!!! yeah, i know, but i was at my mom's (i'm back now), and i don't have webmail access to my thechat email id my mom was flabbergasted at how fast the answer came in "how did you find this discussion list?!" she asked i just smiled she may be a total internet newbie, but she knows there are some things that the explanation is so complicated it outweighs the value of the answer, if you'll pardon the mangled grammar but i did explain what OT means, and what a tip was which reminds me... don't have lynx and are too lazy to turn everything off in your browser? (and don't get me started on how difficult that is in internet explorer) run your page through lynx-me http://ugweb.cs.ualberta.ca/~gerald/lynx-me.cgi Reserved Words for Various Databases http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=22056&Method=Full rudy From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 20:21:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue May 21 20:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Default font size? Message-ID: <01c2012e$eb23a3a0$c3e8059a@rudy> > I've built a style sheet that doesn't assign > a specific size to the main content text. hi mike nobody else responded to this, so i will BRAVO!! not enough people have embraced that strategy > I figured using the browser's default size would be best. > All of the other text sizes are calculated to be relative to that > default. (Headings are 150%, small print is 70%, etc.) commendable -- and accessible > The thing is, the content text just looks too big uh oh, the dark side is calling you > especially when compared to major portals like Yahoo, > Netscape, MSN, Lycos, etc. tell me, is your site cluttered like theirs too? or as your mom might have said, "if all your friends jump off a cliff..." > I realize that visitors can just resize the text when they > visit my site, but expecting them to change the browser > when they enter and exit my site seems a bit much. here's a quick analysis many sites set a fixed size for their main copy text, and many don't for the accessibility-minded, there are too many that do, which is sad, but at least there are plenty that don't (why is it that those who do set a fixed size, set the size so small? greed, that's why -- some marketing honcho deciding to cram more and more and ever more above the fold... but that's a different rant) anyhow, your site visitors will surely have experienced both types now for the analysis some people don't care what size the text is on a web site (just that it's readable) if they don't care, you're fine of those who do care, they can be divided into those who know how to change their settings and those who don't if they don't know how, then you expecting them to change their settings doesn't enter the picture, but at least they will not single you out for being the oddball besides, they usually don't really need to change anything, because your site is the same (default) size as all the other sites out there that don't set a fixed font size, of which there are plenty, so again, you're fine what about those who care about font size and also know how to change their browser setting? to them, you're golden ;o) > I just wanted to see where people think the newer > web site designs are going on this. it depends on the purpose of the site, and whether the design gives a fig about accessibility.... but there's also another, more disturbing trend newer browsers will all have a zoom feature, one that will even override fixed font sizes the i-want-my-site-to-look-good-to-ME fixed font size crowd will jump on this as giving them licence to continue setting small fixed font sizes i can't really fault that argument, either but as long as there are still non-zooming browsers out there, i'd say your strategy is a good one rudy http://rudy.ca/ From webshot at members.evolt.org Tue May 21 20:34:00 2002 From: webshot at members.evolt.org (John Corry) Date: Tue May 21 20:34:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Default font size? In-Reply-To: <01c2012e$eb23a3a0$c3e8059a@rudy> Message-ID: <001601c20130$c9659190$6801a8c0@neonreactor> > > I've built a style sheet that doesn't assign > > a specific size to the main content text. > > hi mike > > nobody else responded to this, so i will > > BRAVO!! > > not enough people have embraced that strategy > > > I figured using the browser's default size would be best. > > All of the other text sizes are calculated to be relative to that > > default. (Headings are 150%, small print is 70%, etc.) > > commendable -- and accessible > > > The thing is, the content text just looks too big > > uh oh, the dark side is calling you I like using ems as a type size measurement...yes, I know it doesn't work too predictably in NN 4.x. I leave body text .9 or 1 em and set headers at like 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 ems The type scales. So far, nobody has complained. I don't' have all the answers by any means, and it seems like there are so many way sto do stuff, that fault can be found in any approach. But this strategy seems to work pretty good. See it in action on my most recent creation: http://www.aamaui.org Ctrl + scrollwheel cycles (rapidly) back and forth through type sizes. Try it, its neat! John Corry From r937 at interlog.com Tue May 21 20:51:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Tue May 21 20:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins - ANSI 92 syntax Message-ID: <01c20133$02016180$c3e8059a@rudy> > this syntax is not ANSI 92 compliant and there is a good reason > that the standard doesn't support this syntax (potential ambiguities > in order of joins when you mix inner and outer joins). Granted, this > query is simple enough (relatively) that there is no potential ambiguity > for the parser, but I prefer to cultivate good habits. Am I correct > however in this understanding? hi steve yes outer joins using the table list syntax have always been problematic in oracle, for example, you could say where table1.two_id (+) = table2.two_id which isn't compatible with all other databases see http://urlizer.com/00/636/ for more on this > ANSI 92 syntax would make the join explicit in the FROM clause, > rather than in the WHERE clause: > > SELECT table1.one_name > FROM table1 INNER JOIN table2 > ON table1.two_id = table2.two_id > WHERE table2.two_name != 'George' actually, the standard sql inequality operator is <> you can also say SELECT table1.one_name FROM table1 INNER JOIN table2 ON table1.two_id = table2.two_id AND table2.two_name <> 'George' which might run faster (your mileage may vary) because rows from table2 can be eliminated by the join operation (which could be using indexes) before candidate rows are returned to the WHERE logic rudy From dave at worlddomination.net Tue May 21 23:10:01 2002 From: dave at worlddomination.net (David Wagner) Date: Tue May 21 23:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708AB@smtmb.thermon.com> <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: <3CEB19DB.6050402@worlddomination.net> Miriam Frost wrote: > Conventional / popular usage is not always the same as correct. Sad, but true. I'm a pretty firm believer in laissez-faire language. Mostly because it's more fun that way -- though I can certainly see the need for rules, too. > I believe that "e-mail" is preferred in more academic or journalistic > arenas I shudder to think what the world would be like if academics and journalists controlled language development. (No trolling intended, I promise.) > because in according to most English pronunciation rules, an initial > "e" followed by a consonant is pronounced as a schwa, an unaccented > vowel.* > (Naturally, there's an exception we're all familiar with: evolt.org -- ...Which proves that we're moving beyond the spoken word as the baseline of the English language, and into the written word. "e-mail" is certainly the most technically correct of the options given; it's a contraction of "electronic mail", and all abbreviations or contractions need *something* (usually a period or apostrophe) to take the place of the removed portion. It makes logical sense, and is much easier to read aloud. However, "email" is easier to type, and has long been the standard for one of the major groups that brought it (the word and the tool) into popular use -- high school and college students, most of whom are more concerned with getting the point across than being technically correct. "email" is totally recognizable when you're reading it silently. I had an extended debate with my dad about this when I was still in high school. He conceded, eventually, that "email" makes perfect sense as long as you don't care about standards, morality, ethics, global thermonuclear warfare, etc. He followed up with some muttering about looking forward to the day when my kids get to generation-gap me. By then, I'm sure, we'll all be communicating with Microsoft brand telepathy, or "tP" for short. > They named the dictionary after me, and then spelled my name wrong.... Sue 'em. :) Those of us who are crazy enough to use Mozilla (I'm still on 0.9.9) for our email must keep in mind that the editor still needs some work. I'm trying to get into the habit of cutting and pasting all of my outgoing messages (especially ones with quoting) into Notepad (with text wrap off), then pasting them back, in order to make sure that the line wrap is correct. It often isn't. If I forget, the quoting gets funky and the message turns out ugly, especially after 3 or 4 times back and forth. This makes me cranky. Those composing HTML email may disregard this tip, and step out into the alley for a severe beating about the head. -- David Wagner dave at worlddomination.net From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Tue May 21 23:32:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Tue May 21 23:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2318 - 45 msgs Message-ID: > From: "Michele Foster" > To: > Subject: Re: [thelist] OT Microsoft Word is driving me insane > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:16:18 -0400 > Organization: WordPro Services > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Michelle wrote: > Rudy, > > You don't say what version of Word .. if it's 97 .. then the options might > be different or not at all the same. Give me a shout off list if that's the > case and I'll try to dig deeper in the memory bank. > > For Word 2000: > > Insert, AutoText, AutoText, go to Auto Correct.; Deselect the second > option... and any other helpers you don't want. Also check autoformat as > you type and autoformat to turn off other annoying helpers. Ok/close all > the way out. > > Check under Tools, AutoCorrect and make sure the above is also applied > there. (Don't ask me why its in more than once place.Why it's in more than one place is a BIG part of what's wrong with MS products generally. I figured this out from the infuriating behavior of their many products I used to have to work with, and my knowledge of organizations; I've never worked for them (I interviewed in a NY office once, in the early '80's, but shied away in horror from the Bill-worship): Suppose you're supposed to be a macho coding team, and you're assigned part of a project, and the part(s) you're depending on to TEST your part isn't (aren't) ready yet. What do you do? Of course! You do a quick and dirty (very dirty) parse of the other team's code, so you can test yours. Just for context, right? And what happens then? Well, you're in a very macho environment (nerdy-macho, as in "I worked 14 hours yesterday. I only slept 9 hours last week!"), so of course things fly by, there's little control over version changes and other non-macho stuff (like, quality control, or beta testing, or listening to the customer)... So the bits of code get squashed together to meet the deadline. You know this because you see the result: NO consistency in the interface, and multiple (conflicting!) ways of turning things on and off; the dead giveaway is: documentation almost never matches the product. The documentation describes something consistent and reasonable, while the product is just partly there.... White space. White space. White space. And it should be light, not truly white, if you are hoping someone will read the text bits. You don't have to save costs on the paper or postage anymore... From slewis at macrovista.net Wed May 22 03:34:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Wed May 22 03:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins - ANSI 92 syntax References: <01c20133$02016180$c3e8059a@rudy> Message-ID: <3CEB58E8.6020505@macrovista.net> rudy wrote: >actually, the standard sql inequality operator is <> > > touche! > FROM table1 INNER JOIN table2 > ON table1.two_id = table2.two_id > AND table2.two_name <> 'George' > > >which might run faster (your mileage may vary) because rows from table2 can >be eliminated by the join operation (which could be using indexes) before >candidate rows are returned to the WHERE logic > > Neat-o! Nothing I've read has mentioned the possibility of putting additional limiting clauses into the FROM. I probably won't try to code anything this way unless I am working with the inner loop of an Omega-3 order of complexity or some such, where the difference in performance could show, but that is a fascinating tidbit. And its probably time for my first tip. When working with a Windows NT/2k server, running IIS, be sure to remove the application mappings that you do not use. Select a website, select properties. Click the Home Directories tab, and click the Configuration. Now in the Application Configuration menu, under the app mappings tab, you will see a number of extensions and executable paths and verbs. If you do not use an extension listed here, remove it. If you do this now, than there are fewer places for buffer overflows and other subtle exploits to hide which you will need to patch in the future. --Steve From luminosity at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 04:14:00 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Wed May 22 04:14:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> References: <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: <1046.139.130.216.191.1022058796.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Miriam Frost said: > I believe that "e-mail" is preferred in more academic or journalistic > arenas because in according to most English pronunciation rules, an > initial "e" followed by a consonant is pronounced as a schwa, an > unaccented vowel.* Hence: > emetic > emancipate > emanate > etcetera > (Naturally, there's an exception we're all familiar with: evolt.org -- > which, because of the missing hyphen, I regularly mispronounced until > Dan corrected me... and then I corrected his spelling.) > > Until it's pronounced uh-male, not eee-male, I suggest the hyphen > rules.... FWIW I agree that hyphen belongs there, but you're agruing the wrong reasons, Miriam. The point you argue is so so dependant on the local accent. For example, you say that emancipate isn't ee because it has no hyphen. i pronounce the word ee man sip ate. Someone from New Zealand might pronounce it uh mun sup ate. Same word different pronunciation... I think the hyphen is there merely because it's a joined word, eg electonic-mail. Although one wonders then why it's ok to lose the lectronic but keep the e, but anyway... Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From evolt at zamba.com Wed May 22 05:36:01 2002 From: evolt at zamba.com (Tony Page) Date: Wed May 22 05:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely Message-ID: <005301c2017c$5f885d60$6401a8c0@Workstation> Hi all, I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the second movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading the page, the movie shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in the site: http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm Am I just being slow here? (Wouldn't surprise me...) Tony Page [ZambaGrafix] tel: +61 2 9953 4425 fax: +61 2 9909 8534 email: ajp at zambagrafix.com http://www.zambagrafix.com From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Wed May 22 06:53:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Wed May 22 06:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape Nav & FormMail problem... Message-ID: Hi, all -- I've been working on a "new" Web site (one I had up originally 6 years ago, with changes & additions). About a month ago, while developing on my PC (with an early MSIE on it) & uploading using SmartFTP on a connected machine (with a more recent MSIE on it), I had about 4 forms working with FormMail.pl, which I had already uploaded to version 1.9... Then I dropped that, since that part of the site was working, and worked on a bunch of SSI's -- none of them touching the HTML with embedded FORM elements. Now, I am cat- and house-sitting (for a retired pediatrician, relatively well off) who inexplicably is using a somewhat old Netscape Communicator browser (version 4.7? something like that, I think). I have to use the CPANEL in the (Apache) Web host's package to upload forms, although everything seems to work okay... I can chmod and so on, at least. But my forms don't work. I fixed the problem part way by specifying both www. and plain accesswriters.com as my domain in @referer, plus specifying completely every e-mail address that should receive output of the form -- as in ('^techwatcher at accesswriters.com','^etc....'). Now, instead of error messages about @referers or @recipients, I just get a message saying something is messed up in my configuration, ask webmaster at accesswriters.com [sic]. Does anyone know what sort of thing might solve this problem? Is it Navigator? (I know it has trouble between www. and non-www. versions; sometimes it won't load my page as home page because I didn't put www in. But then, other times it does.) The ISP here is AT&T World Service, if that has any relevance. Even if it's a Nav. problem, I'd like to solve it, since some of the writers (my target audience) no doubt also use this browser.... Cheers -- C. Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com Question: Has an Cheers From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 07:05:00 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed May 22 07:05:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2318 - 45 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: carol, first you say... ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > I've never worked for them [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< and then you go on to say... ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Suppose you're supposed to be a macho coding team, and > you're assigned part of a project, and the part(s) > you're depending on to TEST your part isn't (aren't) > ready yet. What do you do? Of course! You do a quick > and dirty (very dirty) parse of the other team's code, > so you can test yours. Just for context, right? And > what happens then? Well, you're in a very macho > environment (nerdy-macho, as in "I worked 14 hours > yesterday. I only slept 9 hours last week!"), so of > course things fly by, there's little control over > version changes and other non-macho stuff (like, > quality control, or beta testing, or listening to the > customer)... So the bits of code get squashed together > to meet the deadline. [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< this sort of assumptive deduction has no merit. if you'd ever worked for microsoft, you'd know the rhetoric above simply isn't how it works. how do i know? well, i work with someone that's worked on several high-profile microsoft products through several stages of development -- ren which eventually became outlook, the original publisher, pieces of exchange. more importantly, he worked in the quality control department -- the very thing about microsoft you imply you know so much about. not only are the steps a product had to go through to make it to market very rigorous, but the demands made upon developers by the quality control department make most software development cycles seem like child's play. many software development companies could only dream of having their shit together half as much. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > You know this because you see the result: [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< you assume it to be true, but you don't know it by the result. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > NO consistency in the interface, [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< no consistency? hardly a factual statement. take a read on the requirements for a software vendor to receive an official "made for windows" badge on their software product. you'll find the their *very* strict. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > and multiple (conflicting!) ways of turning things on > and off; [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< which came first, multiple ways of turning things on off or the adage that with computers you can always achieve the same task in different ways? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > the dead giveaway is: documentation almost never matches > the product. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< this is an unfortunate occurrence (though not to the extreme you suggest), but not a dead giveaway of what you might think. documentation doesn't exactly match the product because it's developed at the same time the product is being developed from the same spec document. that's why it's so important for qc to be rigid with their testing so the product matches the original spec as closely as possible and hence the documentation for the product matches as closely as possible. it has to be done this way. if it weren't and the documentation were developed after the product was developed then the time to market for the product would be abysmally slow. please, don't assume. don't tell others what you assume. don't pass your assumptions on as fact unless you really know they are true. don't mess with the "check that file exists" checkbox for the .cfm file extension on the iis site if you're using any cfgraph functionality. if you do you'll get nothing but broken images or flash movies where graphs should be. that's because cfgraph makes a call to /CFGraphingPage.cfm passing parameters to drive the type and style of graph that's displayed. don't bother searching for a CFGraphingPage.cfm template on your server. it simply doesn't exist. i suspect that the coldfusion server simply looks for this request and executes a built-in jrun process to answer it. however, if iis checks to see if a file exists before handing it to coldfusion, then it will obviously fail (since it doesn't exist in the requested path or at all, for that matter) and never get passed on to coldfusion. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From zamba at zamba.com Wed May 22 07:05:07 2002 From: zamba at zamba.com (Tony Page) Date: Wed May 22 07:05:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely Message-ID: <005201c2017a$75af5d20$6401a8c0@Workstation> Hi all, I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the second movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading the page, the movie shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in the site: http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm Am I just being slow here? (Wouldn't surprise me...) Tony Page [ZambaGrafix] tel: +61 2 9953 4425 fax: +61 2 9909 8534 email: ajp at zambagrafix.com http://www.zambagrafix.com From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Wed May 22 07:51:00 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Wed May 22 07:51:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cancel my earlier request for FormMail/Navigator interaction help! Message-ID: A tech support person at PronicSolutions.com replaced formmail with a new formmail, and now my forms all work! Even in Nav.! Yaaay! Another reason not to use FormMail from Matt's Script Archive, folks (not OT after all). (-8 Cheers Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com From gozz at gozz.com Wed May 22 08:01:01 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Wed May 22 08:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely In-Reply-To: <005301c2017c$5f885d60$6401a8c0@Workstation> References: <005301c2017c$5f885d60$6401a8c0@Workstation> Message-ID: It most be a browser-specific rendering problem, shows up fine for me. A surefire solution would be to make them into one movie. You could also try putting them in different TDs, or forcing the height to be available with a spacer gif. Or, this is a wild guess: Because they are in an TD with a style defined by an external stylesheet, it might need that style defined ... so maybe try moving the jrcbody to the embedded stylesheet on this page. >I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the second >movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading the page, the movie >shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in the site: >http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Wed May 22 08:47:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Wed May 22 08:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Free Hosting Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C209@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Does anyone know of any RELIABLE free hosting that supports ASP and SQL Server with no ads? How about one that just offers mailing lists to the email of my choice? Thanks, Josh From tamara at sanctusmoo.com Wed May 22 08:53:01 2002 From: tamara at sanctusmoo.com (Tamara Nelson) Date: Wed May 22 08:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Free Hosting References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C209@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <003e01c20197$bfc76340$945dfea9@buckeyecablesystem.com> Brinkster.com has free ASP hosting but I'm not sure about the SQL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feingold Josh S" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:46 AM Subject: [thelist] Free Hosting > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Does anyone know of any RELIABLE free hosting that supports ASP and SQL > Server with no ads? > > How about one that just offers mailing lists to the email of my choice? > > Thanks, > Josh > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > From chris at fuseware.com Wed May 22 08:53:07 2002 From: chris at fuseware.com (Chris Evans) Date: Wed May 22 08:53:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> <1046.139.130.216.191.1022058796.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CEBA2B7.5040907@fuseware.com> Lachlan Cannon wrote: > I think the hyphen is there merely because it's a joined word, eg > electonic-mail. Although one wonders then why it's ok to lose the lectronic > but keep the e, but anyway... So shouldn't that be e'mail? -- Chris Evans chris at fuseware.com http://www.fuseware.com From joshua at waetech.com Wed May 22 09:14:04 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Wed May 22 09:14:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Joins - ANSI 92 syntax References: <01c20133$02016180$c3e8059a@rudy> Message-ID: <05fa01c2019a$b73c02f0$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL Joins - ANSI 92 syntax > in oracle, for example, you could say > > where table1.two_id (+) = table2.two_id Hey all (rudy, steve, et al), Thanks for the great thread. This thread brought to my attention something that had been aggravating me in MS SQL for a while now. And that is the use of a subselect within the FROM clause. I was never able to get the derned thing to work correctly. As it turns out, it was because I was not aliasing the subselect with a table name. Once I did that, problem solved! Anyway, here's the reference I used: The following link will shed a lot of light on how to set up join syntax using SQL-92 syntax and provide your own table hints to the MS SQL 2k engine: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/tsqlref/ts_ fa-fz_4ox9.asp http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/tsqlref/ts_ tsqlcon_6lyk.asp From martin at takingitglobal.org Wed May 22 09:18:03 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Wed May 22 09:18:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c2019b$5bc3ea40$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> >I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the >second movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading the page, the >movie shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in the site: >http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm I only just noticed this puppy... ...your movie is stop();ping on its first(?) frame on my pc... [p3,god knows what speed,128mb ram,winXP, ie6] If I right-click and select "play", it shows the rest... ...perhaps an explicit call to play(); in frame one might do the trick... Again, if this has been previously suggested, I apologise... Don't have the time to sift thru the back-posts in the archives. -m From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk Wed May 22 09:20:01 2002 From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED)) Date: Wed May 22 09:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] css positioning problem in IEMac Message-ID: Hi all I'm having a problem with overlapping divs in IEmac. They appear ok in IE5.0, IE5.5, Opera 6 and NS 6.2. An example is at http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/julian/test/sop2002/section1/ index.htm a work in progress version of the style sheet is http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/julian/test/sop2002/style/sop .css btw I have only screen shots to work from for the Mac as I use a pc. Any other Mac problem reports would be appreciated. Reply off list if attaching screen shots etc. tia J. Julian Scarlett Web Design & Document Management System Officer PPU Education Directorate Sheffield City Council 0114 2735612 mob 07904914976 julian.scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible. From rob.smith at thermon.com Wed May 22 09:28:00 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed May 22 09:28:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] css positioning problem in IEMac Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708BB@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can't see either links Rob Hi all I'm having a problem with overlapping divs in IEmac. They appear ok in IE5.0, IE5.5, Opera 6 and NS 6.2. An example is at http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/julian/test/sop2002/section1/ index.htm a work in progress version of the style sheet is http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/julian/test/sop2002/style/sop .css btw I have only screen shots to work from for the Mac as I use a pc. Any other Mac problem reports would be appreciated. Reply off list if attaching screen shots etc. tia J. Julian Scarlett Web Design & Document Management System Officer PPU Education Directorate Sheffield City Council 0114 2735612 mob 07904914976 julian.scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible. -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From miriam at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 09:51:00 2002 From: miriam at members.evolt.org (Miriam Frost) Date: Wed May 22 09:51:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail References: <027401c200df$3d0a7e00$79cff3cd@walthers.com> <1046.139.130.216.191.1022058796.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <009901c2019f$e8764c90$79cff3cd@walthers.com> > reasons, Miriam. The point you argue is so so dependant on the local accent. That's very true as well. > I think the hyphen is there merely because it's a joined word, eg > electonic-mail. Bingo! Reason number one. We rule. Miriam -- http://www.dynagirl.com/ somebody bring me some coffee please From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Wed May 22 10:10:01 2002 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Wed May 22 10:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] MSSQL Worm Message-ID: <20020522160923.A28723@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk> Thought I'd post this here as I know we have quite a few developers using MSSQL: >From http://online.securityfocus.com/news/429 -- A mounting trail of evidence has security experts warning that a new Internet worm targeting Microsoft SQL servers could be on the loose. Since Monday, a sharp spike in remote probes of TCP port 1433, which commonly is used by Microsoft's SQL database, has been reported by many server administrators, according to SecurityFocus, which operates an incident-reporting system called ARIS. Officials at the SANS Institute, a computer security education and analysis organization, also reported today that they have received "exploit code" that indicates the increase in port 1433 scans may be due to a self-propagating worm rather than to manual probes by would-be attackers. -- More info available at http://www.incidents.org/diary/diary.php?id_6 Might be a good time to check that all your boxes are locked down. G. From morgan at morgankelsey.com Wed May 22 10:11:03 2002 From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (nagrom) Date: Wed May 22 10:11:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] WAS thelist digest- NOW CF tip addition References: Message-ID: <001101c20197$f41ebda0$0b01a8c0@nagrom> .jeff, > > > don't mess with the "check that file exists" checkbox for the .cfm file > extension on the iis site if you're using any cfgraph functionality. if you > do you'll get nothing but broken images or flash movies where graphs should > be. that's because cfgraph makes a call to /CFGraphingPage.cfm passing > parameters to drive the type and style of graph that's displayed. > > don't bother searching for a CFGraphingPage.cfm template on your server. it > simply doesn't exist. i suspect that the coldfusion server simply looks for > this request and executes a built-in jrun process to answer it. however, if > iis checks to see if a file exists before handing it to coldfusion, then it > will obviously fail (since it doesn't exist in the requested path or at all, > for that matter) and never get passed on to coldfusion. > > also, if you are trying to use this style of querystring for some reason: /press.cfm/pr/31/ (reasons aside, lets just say you're unfortunate and aren't using a *real* directory style querystring for some reason) having the 'check that file exists' box checked for.cfm pages will return a 404 for those urls as well. (for the same reason you stated, iis cant figure out the filename correctly, so it fails) nagrom ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.morgankelsey.com From haagj at ctcgsc.org Wed May 22 10:11:09 2002 From: haagj at ctcgsc.org (Haag, Jason) Date: Wed May 22 10:11:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] Message-ID: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF2377015913@PEFL-PDC> I have recently been successful in importing XML into both browsers. The reason why the browsers were returning different lengths and a major and very important difference is that Netscape and Mozilla report the whitespace nodes (newlines) after each tag; IE does not. Netscape/Mozilla does that because XML requires strict whitespace handling. I shouldn't say the strict whitespace handling is the source of the problems, but the key to successful cross-browser implementation when importing XML. To make code more efficient would you could try setting the preserveWhiteSpace property in IE = false during the object detection. Also, there are major differences between the way you access the nodes in Netscape/Mozilla versus IE: Most examples I have seen demonstrate IE using .text versus .NodeValue Does netscape follow the DOM standard way to access the nodeValues in an xml document? Or does IE deviate from the standard? There is a universal way to access the nodes. Both browsers claim the support the DOM! For example: Internet Explorer > objNode.item(0).childNodes(0).text (WRONG) Netscape / DOM Standard > objNode.item(0).childNodes(0).nodeValue You should use nodeValue in both. This is the only way I have been able to grab the value, but it forces me to create a conditional based on object detection if you don't use nodeValue. For example: Netscape > if (document.implementation&&document.implementation.createDocument) IE > else if (window.ActiveXObject) This topic is also being discussed at netscape.public.mozilla.xml If anyone is interested . . . --__--__-- Message: 27 From: "Haag, Jason" To: "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:33:50 -0500 Subject: [thelist] [ - Examples of Importing ML into Nutscrape or Mozilla? - ] Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Seriously, are there any websites that actually have working examples of importing xml into a page using Netscape? I read about many theoretical implementations, but no practical demos for developers. When I run alerts for debugging, Netscape 6.2 doesn't even return the proper length. http://www.tempohomes.net/xml/test/CrossBrowserXMLTest.html Try this in IE, and Try it in Netscape. Each browser returns two different lengths. Which one is correct?? This is a primary example of what I'm talking about. If both DOM and full xml support are provided, why is there still such inconsistency? --__--__-- From hblair at hotfootmail.com Wed May 22 10:33:00 2002 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Wed May 22 10:33:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 Message-ID: Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 is now available: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ -- Hugh From ben at inchima.com Wed May 22 10:35:03 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Wed May 22 10:35:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] doing http requests using php (without curl?) Message-ID: <002201c201a6$23027e00$0300a8c0@BS> i am trying to carry out a http POST request in the middle of a php script. this is without using curl as i'm on a shared server. basically, i need the functionality of HTTP::Request (perl) in php. any ideas? i hope i'm just overlooking a simple function that allows me to do this. benji inchima.com From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Wed May 22 11:14:01 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Wed May 22 11:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 Message-ID: Interesting. Does anyone know where the NS7PR1 branch comes off the Mozilla code tree? Hopefully it's post-RC1... RC1 has a rather unfortunate security hole: http://sec.greymagic.com/adv/gm001-ns/ Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Blair [mailto:hblair at hotfootmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 8:35 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 is now available: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ -- Hugh From evolt at pixelwright.com Wed May 22 11:37:01 2002 From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard) Date: Wed May 22 11:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 References: Message-ID: <008401c201ae$c97a06b0$2860398a@newcos.com> Jonathan, > Interesting. Does anyone know where the NS7PR1 branch comes off the Mozilla > code tree? It's an RC2 variant: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020512/7.0b1 The Mozilla 1.0 RC2 release had a date of 20020510, so presumably Netscape 7 PR1 is from a nightly build shortly thereafter. In my guesstimation, the reason for the new version number is tied to AOL's version number, and would seem to be further evidence that Netscape will eventually be integrated into AOL software. But Netscape has shown a penchant to play loose with version numbers in the past, so it may just be marketing. James Aylard From peter at johansson.org Wed May 22 11:40:01 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Wed May 22 11:40:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] UTF-8/FormMail/PHP headaches Message-ID: Hi all, I've got a problem with character encoding in combination with a FormMail-script (coded in PHP). Everything works fine as long as I stick to ISO-8859-1 as charset, but when I call the script from pages that use UTF-8 as encoding, special characters (e.g. those special chars with dots and circles above that we tend to use here in Sweden) end up garbled. The encoding is set with a meta-tag in case the document is in UTF-8, like so: The server hasn't got any special charset configured, so it should deliver ISO-8859-1 (which is the default if I'm not mistaken) on those pages which haven't got that meta-tag. I can understand that the characters are garbled, using different charsets and all, but how can I make my FormMail-script to cope with both variants of encoding? I've played around with phpinfo() to see if the encoding is available in some environment variable, but I haven't find anything of interest. There's a function utf8_decode() in php that seems to work for converting the UTF-8 form data to ISO-8859-1 prior to sending the mail, problem is that it doesn't work all that well on data already in ISO-8859-1. I guess I need some way to determine what encoding the posted data is in? The content-type after the form has been posted to my FormMail-script always seems to be "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" no matter what I try. I've looked at the HTML-specs at www.w3.org and even tried to set the enctype to "application/x-www-form-urlencoded; charset=ISO-8859-1" in an attempt to make the form-data use a different encoding than the rest of the page, but no success. I've also tried the "accept-charset" but I couldn't get that to work either. Anyone who has a clue on this? I guess I could alter the script somehow and add a new hidden field that indicate which encoding is used, and then decide whether to call utf8_decode() on the data, but I don't think that's a very nice solution. And changing all pages that uses FormMail is out of the question (well, almost anyway) since there's _alot_ of them. Regards, Peter From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com Wed May 22 11:55:01 2002 From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch) Date: Wed May 22 11:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] Message-ID: >I have recently been successful in importing XML into both browsers. The >reason why >the browsers were returning different lengths and a major and very >important >difference is that Netscape and Mozilla report the whitespace nodes >(newlines) after each tag; IE does not. Netscape/Mozilla does that because >XML requires strict whitespace handling. IE Win does not, IE Mac does. I vaguely heard that Netscape is thinking of removing this feature since it only leads to problems and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. >Seriously, are there any websites that actually have working examples of >importing xml into a page using Netscape? I read about many theoretical >implementations, but no practical demos for developers. http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?importxml.html ppk _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From michael at tapinternet.com Wed May 22 12:04:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Wed May 22 12:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] References: Message-ID: <3CEBCF23.40503@tapinternet.com> Peter-Paul Koch wrote: >> difference is that Netscape and Mozilla report the whitespace nodes >> (newlines) after each tag; IE does not. Netscape/Mozilla does that >> because >> XML requires strict whitespace handling. > > > IE Win does not, IE Mac does. I vaguely heard that Netscape is > thinking of > removing this feature since it only leads to problems and has no > redeeming > qualities whatsoever. Oh come on! Claiming more adherance to "specs" than MS is the greatest quality there is, above speed, usability, crash-proneness, and many other "lesser" qualities. They should keep it in, along with Math-ML standard support in Mozilla and other great features. That'll *really* stick it to MS. :) Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com/ 734-480-9961 From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 12:06:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 12:06:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: <1022087115.3cebcfcbb4dbf@webmail.msstate.edu> Before I embark on my latest endeavor, I'd like to get a few opinions on the matter of layout design. What's the consensus among web authors right now? Are table layouts still the One True Way, or has the W3C and CSS2 Positioning opened the door to something better? -joeljkp ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com From chrism at puffofsmoke.net Wed May 22 12:16:01 2002 From: chrism at puffofsmoke.net (Chris Marsh) Date: Wed May 22 12:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <1022087115.3cebcfcbb4dbf@webmail.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <000001c201b5$04fec8f0$0100000a@development.idlenet.com> > Before I embark on my latest endeavor, I'd like to get a few > opinions on the matter of layout design. What's the consensus > among web authors right now? Are table layouts still the One > True Way, or has the W3C and CSS2 Positioning opened the door > to something better? FWIW I believe that many design issues are best addressed using CSS, but there will always be content that needs displaying in tabular format. I'd be interested to know if anyone uses CSS techniques for tabular display, as I still use tables. Balance in all things... Regards Chris Marsh From scotts at rci-nv.com Wed May 22 12:21:01 2002 From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz) Date: Wed May 22 12:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Konkle-Parker [mailto:jjk3 at msstate.edu] > > Before I embark on my latest endeavor, I'd like to get a few > opinions on the > matter of layout design. What's the consensus among web > authors right now? Are > table layouts still the One True Way, or has the W3C and CSS2 > Positioning opened > the door to something better? There isn't any "consensus" right now, and it's still hotly debated. But I think an uneasy peace can be summed up like this: CCS layouts are the way of the future, so it's good to learn and experiment with them. But they still aren't always appropriate. Table layouts aren't going anywhere for a long time, since current CSS2 implementations range from frustrating to horrible. You'll need to make an individual decision based on your audience and what browsers they're using, and make sure your design still looks good when CSS is disabled or only partially supported. -- Scott Schrantz work: www.rci-nv.com play: www.computer-vet.com From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Wed May 22 12:35:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Wed May 22 12:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7 beta Message-ID: <001e01c201b6$c644aba0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/learnmore/faq.jsp Cheers Francis -- From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Wed May 22 12:41:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Wed May 22 12:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Quality Control, etc. of MS products Message-ID: > Message: 19 > From: ".jeff" > To: > Subject: RE: [thelist] Re: thelist digest, Vol 1 #2318 - 45 msgs > Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:15:45 -0700 > Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > carol, > > first you say... > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > I've never worked for them [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > and then you go on to say... > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > Suppose you're supposed to be a macho coding team, and > > you're assigned part of a project, and the part(s) > > you're depending on to TEST your part isn't (aren't) > > ready yet. What do you do? Of course! You do a quick > > and dirty (very dirty) parse of the other team's code, > > so you can test yours. Just for context, right? And > > what happens then? Well, you're in a very macho > > environment (nerdy-macho, as in "I worked 14 hours > > yesterday. I only slept 9 hours last week!"), so of > > course things fly by, there's little control over > > version changes and other non-macho stuff (like, > > quality control, or beta testing, or listening to the > > customer)... So the bits of code get squashed together > > to meet the deadline. [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > this sort of assumptive deduction has no merit. if you'd ever worked for > microsoft, you'd know the rhetoric above simply isn't how it works. how do > i know? well, i work with someone that's worked on several high-profile > microsoft products through several stages of development -- ren which > eventually became outlook, the original publisher, pieces of exchange. more > importantly, he worked in the quality control department -- the very thing > about microsoft you imply you know so much about. > > not only are the steps a product had to go through to make it to market very > rigorous, but the demands made upon developers by the quality control > department make most software development cycles seem like child's play. > many software development companies could only dream of having their shit > together half as much. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > You know this because you see the result: [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > you assume it to be true, but you don't know it by the result. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > NO consistency in the interface, [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > no consistency? hardly a factual statement. take a read on the > requirements for a software vendor to receive an official "made for windows" > badge on their software product. you'll find the their *very* strict. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > and multiple (conflicting!) ways of turning things on > > and off; [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > which came first, multiple ways of turning things on off or the adage that > with computers you can always achieve the same task in different ways? > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > the dead giveaway is: documentation almost never matches > > the product. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > this is an unfortunate occurrence (though not to the extreme you suggest), > but not a dead giveaway of what you might think. documentation doesn't > exactly match the product because it's developed at the same time the > product is being developed from the same spec document. that's why it's so > important for qc to be rigid with their testing so the product matches the > original spec as closely as possible and hence the documentation for the > product matches as closely as possible. it has to be done this way. if it > weren't and the documentation were developed after the product was developed > then the time to market for the product would be abysmally slow. > > please, don't assume. don't tell others what you assume. don't pass your > assumptions on as fact unless you really know they are true. > > > > don't mess with the "check that file exists" checkbox for the .cfm file > extension on the iis site if you're using any cfgraph functionality. if you > do you'll get nothing but broken images or flash movies where graphs should > be. that's because cfgraph makes a call to /CFGraphingPage.cfm passing > parameters to drive the type and style of graph that's displayed. > > don't bother searching for a CFGraphingPage.cfm template on your server. it > simply doesn't exist. i suspect that the coldfusion server simply looks for > this request and executes a built-in jrun process to answer it. however, if > iis checks to see if a file exists before handing it to coldfusion, then it > will obviously fail (since it doesn't exist in the requested path or at all, > for that matter) and never get passed on to coldfusion. > > > > .jeff > > http://evolt.org/ > jeff at members.evolt.org > http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ I'm going to assume you're pretty young (I'm 51, and began coding -- FORTRAN first -- in 1969). (Yeah, I know you warned me about making assumptions. Can't go through life that way, my dear.) So you probably don't have the background to remember a time when code was actually pretty clean, and tight, and users expected absolute consistency (even though it was a command line interface -- mostly via JCL -- or Job Control Language). There were no official Quality Control departments, but there were written specs (usually no documentation, either). Then came Microsoft, and weird things started to happen. I have a huge pile of complaints about their software, going back to my first experiences of their OS. A few lowlights: Powerpoint came gunning for Freelance in the market they had pretty much taken from Harvard Graphics. The marketing hype on the box said it had the same functionality, in being integrated with their other products, that Freelance had. But Freelance actually allowed you to use the wp component and develop slide shows from the outliner view of that wp file. Did Powerpoint? No, but they pretended they did... in the pretty menus, which was probably as far as most folks looked. Freelance had an export (not in the file/export menu; in the screen presentation module) allowing users to create literally stand-alone DOS-based presentations. You could hand out a diskette in the street, and instructions to view the presentation literally fit on a diskette label (like the ones I printed!). Powerpoint only ran as a "standalone" if you included some wacky Windows-standalone-module on the diskette. Forget reaching folks with older PC's. I could go on and on and on, but why bother? I've know MS programmers, too, and that's how I know it's not the programmers who do the bad work. It's the corporate culture. Btw, I agree with you that MS has very strict standards for *other companies'* code before they will allow the other companies to say their product runs on Windows (whatever version). But they don't meet their own standards. Remember when all programs HAD to be uninstallable? Except, of course, for the MS applications.... Not trying to start a war, but the younger folks don't know why some of us hate MS so passionately. They have literally killed about 4 of my favorite apps (that is, they drove the companies out of the market; I still use these orphan apps). In one case I know of, they told the original owners of XyWrite -- as MS Word was about to come out with a feature that XyWrite had had for half a decade at that point (the auto-spell replace feature, with customizable dictionary), that they would sue XyWrite if XyWrite didn't remove that feature! This is not fair competition; this is bald-faced app-war-by-having-more-capital-to-pay-lawyers. Finally, by following exactly the MS instructions, I once destroyed a huge file which I needed -- in MS Outlook, trying to create a new folder (it used the same name, bypassing the steps the instructions had indicated I would be able to go through to name it; then when it asked if I wanted to delete it, and I said yes, it deleted the PREVIOUS file, the one the cursor was NOT on!). My consulting friends (in NYC) advised me to try to contact MS. I walked over there, and couldn't get past the front desk. Literally. No one in the lobby would allow me to talk to anyone, whether I wanted to pay for help or whatever. That was the last time I used a MS product, other than OS's, and I tell everyone all about the dangers of their products every chance I get. Cheers -- Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com The folks still using Nav v.4. browers may not be able to use forms pointing to the FormMail.pl at Matt's Script Archive -- the updated version 1.9, which was made tighter because of glaring security holes. Don't use that FormMail if part of your target audience may use these older browsers. From Anthony at Baratta.com Wed May 22 12:47:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Wed May 22 12:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] MSSQL Worm In-Reply-To: <20020522160923.A28723@chillibean.dsvr.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522103910.01c65e60@baratta.com> At 08:09 AM 5/22/2002, Garrett Coakley wrote: >-- >A mounting trail of evidence has security experts warning that a new >Internet worm targeting Microsoft SQL servers could be on the loose. This worm looks for MS SQL servers that have no password for the "sa" account. By default with a MS SQL 7.0 installation, you are no prompted for an "sa" password. However with SP3 the SP installation will look for an "sa" password and if it does not exist make you put one it. MS SQL 2000 does not suffer from this brain dead installation problem. With Windows 2000 you can use the IPsec "filters" to deny access to port 1433 from only approved IPs. I don't have it working yet for myself, but when I do I'll write it up and post on eVolt. Lastly - make sure you have the latest SP and hotfixes installed. There are a ton of buffer overflows with extended store procedures that can be used to "root" your box if the attacker has been able to divine your ODBC account login information. --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From zines at dx13.co.uk Wed May 22 13:25:01 2002 From: zines at dx13.co.uk (Mike : delusional) Date: Wed May 22 13:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <000001c201b5$04fec8f0$0100000a@development.idlenet.com> References: <000001c201b5$04fec8f0$0100000a@development.idlenet.com> Message-ID: <2621248013.20020522192240@dx13.co.uk> Hi, > I'd be interested to know if anyone uses CSS techniques for tabular > display, as I still use tables. Balance in all things... This would be doing the same as using tables for layout - tables are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is intended for page layout... I guess we have to be careful not to take CSS use too far :) .: Mike .: delusipna| .: www.dx13.co.uk ========================================== Reply to Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 6:20:44 PM: Subject : "[thelist] Currents trends in layout design" From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 13:30:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 13:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <2621248013.20020522192240@dx13.co.uk> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the result is somewhat hard to manage. - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com - -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mike : delusional Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:23 PM To: Chris Marsh Subject: Re[2]: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design Hi, > I'd be interested to know if anyone uses CSS techniques for tabular > display, as I still use tables. Balance in all things... This would be doing the same as using tables for layout - tables are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is intended for page layout... I guess we have to be careful not to take CSS use too far :) .: Mike .: delusipna| .: www.dx13.co.uk ========================================== Reply to Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 6:20:44 PM: Subject : "[thelist] Currents trends in layout design" - -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOvja3880CLOJa2eEQIg/ACfSykhhX89SQ54Uha2CqJq+YgEKn0AoMII fsllwfMOVzzCZwy0FVR+FG+t =ih3m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com Wed May 22 13:33:01 2002 From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green) Date: Wed May 22 13:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE09C870@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com> >>>tables are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is intended for page layout...<<< interesting point... but, it seems to me that tables have always been touted as a way of gaining more control over page layout ... at which point, design elements *become* tabular data... or am i making too much of this? sometimes i can't tell. Janet From evolt at stoutstreet.com Wed May 22 13:38:01 2002 From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick) Date: Wed May 22 13:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design References: Message-ID: <009701c201bf$edf73e20$0300000a@pooky> http://www.iampms.com/resume/ http://www.bestdogvet.com/ http://www.theoryfactory.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Konkle-Parker" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:29 PM Subject: RE: Re[2]: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? > I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the > result is somewhat hard to manage. > > - -joeljkp > > - --------------------------------------- > http://www.ballsome.com > > - -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mike : delusional > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Chris Marsh > Subject: Re[2]: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design > > > Hi, > > > I'd be interested to know if anyone uses CSS techniques for tabular > > display, as I still use tables. Balance in all things... > This would be doing the same as using tables for layout - tables > are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is > intended for page layout... > > I guess we have to be careful not to take CSS use too far :) > > .: Mike > .: delusipna| > > .: www.dx13.co.uk > > ========================================== > Reply to Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 6:20:44 PM: > Subject : "[thelist] Currents trends in layout design" > > - -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use > > iQA/AwUBPOvja3880CLOJa2eEQIg/ACfSykhhX89SQ54Uha2CqJq+YgEKn0AoMII > fsllwfMOVzzCZwy0FVR+FG+t > =ih3m > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From rob.smith at thermon.com Wed May 22 13:49:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Wed May 22 13:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708C1@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] You really have to approach this from a modular design perspective. Cascading Style Sheets does what the name says. Tables are to aid in layout, not style. CSS is for layout and style. And if by some chance you're (web) designing several hundred pages all including tables of some form or fashion, you'd want at least some consistency, less you drive your customers away with headaches (and really really long sentences). Both CSS and Table usage have its pros and cons but to find that happy medium between the two is bliss. Imagine you are a news paper editor for a major metropolitan newspaper. Your daily output on one "paper" is about 80 pages. Now imagine they're all a different layout, color, and God forbid ALERT!!! is used (classified sections). --------- Bottom Line, keep it clean, professional, effective, stylish, polished, and most of all working. That is what I believe the "Current trends" are and will be for quite some time. >>>tables are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is intended for page layout...<<< interesting point... but, it seems to me that tables have always been touted as a way of gaining more control over page layout ... at which point, design elements *become* tabular data... or am i making too much of this? sometimes i can't tell. Janet From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com Wed May 22 13:57:01 2002 From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com) Date: Wed May 22 13:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: >Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? http://www.thechessmill.com/ 'tain't perfect (especially for WebTV and NN4.x) and there's a couple of snags I'm still working on, but it's an example. Have fun, Arlen Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department DNRC 224 Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com ---------------------------------------------- In God we trust; all others must provide data. ---------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone. If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it. From miriam at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 14:03:01 2002 From: miriam at members.evolt.org (Miriam Frost) Date: Wed May 22 14:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design References: Message-ID: <034901c201c3$0eedc830$79cff3cd@walthers.com> http://www.dynagirl.com Still working out some kinks, and god help those who browse with >5.x browsers. And Netscape. And Opera. Oy. From david at us-lot.org Wed May 22 14:04:00 2002 From: david at us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Wed May 22 14:04:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: References: <2621248013.20020522192240@dx13.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020522194113.1ae58108.david@us-lot.org> -- On Wed, 22 May 2002 13:29:00 -0500 "Joel Konkle-Parker" wrote: > Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? > I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the > result is somewhat hard to manage. http://david.us-lot.org/ http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/ http://thecoreworlds.net/ http://akaka.us-lot.org/ and of course: http://glish.com/css/ (not mine ;) ) -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. -- [ Content was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ] -- From haagj at ctcgsc.org Wed May 22 14:04:06 2002 From: haagj at ctcgsc.org (Haag, Jason) Date: Wed May 22 14:04:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] Message-ID: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF2377015915@PEFL-PDC> hermithaag wrote: It makes me wonder. Microsoft has developed a lot of 'extensions' to the DOM, as they are called. Some of which SHOULD probably be standards. Like you said, what are the redeeming qualities? Is Microsoft too advanced, or is this some type of deviant strategy of theirs? The W3C has Microsoft developers on board, but are they creating extnsible features because they know developers will get angry and denounce Netscape? It almost seems suspicious. A press release about NS 7 was announced today and it is available for download preview. http://media.aoltimewarner.com/media/press_view.cfm?release_num=55252594 I would hope they remove this whitespace feature(I wouldn't call it a feature unless someone could prove otherwise) before the NS 7 release. There just aren't enough sites (besides yours) that demonstrate successful use of the DOM. There is a lot of Microsoft propoganda out there(several sites using the 'extensions to the DOM', and I'm not sure that it will be overcome. http://www.devguru.com/ >From my reading on several developer discussion boards during the past several months, a lot of people are referencing these examples. If NS ever wants to reclaim it's share of the browser market aside from the AOL browser incoporation/conversion, they should play the propoganda game or at least demonstrate some easily implemented examples for developers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ppk wrote: IE Win does not, IE Mac does. I vaguely heard that Netscape is thinking of removing this feature since it only leads to problems and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- hermithaag wrote: I have recently been successful in importing XML into both browsers. The reason why the browsers were returning different lengths and a major and very important difference is that Netscape and Mozilla report the whitespace nodes(newlines) after each tag; IE does not. Netscape/Mozilla does that because XML requires strict whitespace handling. From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 14:23:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 14:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Help with character encodings Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I need some help understanding character encodings (). How do you know what encoding you're writing in? Is it set OS-wide? Program-specific? If so, how do I set which encoding 1st Page 2000 uses in its files? How do I know which is uses, if I can't change it? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOvv+X880CLOJa2eEQL+ygCgniW5zFUC5lzMqi1IgvJaByTxIMkAmwVc NnwfUknY/EM6DGySCN8OOFIw =RXNx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From crsaila at yahoo.ca Wed May 22 14:28:01 2002 From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila) Date: Wed May 22 14:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design References: Message-ID: <3CEBF17E.7060308@yahoo.ca> Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? > I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the > result is somewhat hard to manage. If you mean avoiding all block level mark-up other than
, then give the CSS spec a read to understand the problems with this: If you're looking for tableless, CSS-based design visit WebNouveau.net enormous list of tableless sites: -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From zines at dx13.co.uk Wed May 22 15:09:01 2002 From: zines at dx13.co.uk (Mike : delusional) Date: Wed May 22 15:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708C1@smtmb.thermon.com> References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708C1@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <16027540080.20020522210732@dx13.co.uk> Hi, >>>>tables are designed to display tabular data in the same way CSS is > intended for page layout...<<< > interesting point... but, it seems to me that tables have always been touted > as a way of gaining more control over page layout ... at which point, design > elements *become* tabular data... or am i making too much of this? sometimes > i can't tell. heh :) Tables were the way to layout pages, simply because there wasn't much else out there... you could have used frames - but lets just not go there shall we. CSS is much better for layout than tables, once you get used to it, although both methods have things that the other just cannot do. Of course, the things you can only do with tables are not so cool as what you can do with CSS... right? :P .: Mike .: delusipna| .: www.dx13.co.uk ========================================== Reply to Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 7:49:45 PM: Subject : "[thelist] [OT] Currents trends in layout design" From bigpant at btinternet.com Wed May 22 15:15:01 2002 From: bigpant at btinternet.com (Bigpant) Date: Wed May 22 15:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] doing http requests using php (without curl?) In-Reply-To: <002201c201a6$23027e00$0300a8c0@BS> Message-ID: <000901c201cd$4678f1d0$0100a8c0@p1> >i am trying to carry out an http POST request in the middle of a php >script You can send http headers using the php 'header' function. Bear in mind that you cannot echo or print anything (or add any HTML) before the header command. Any output will force http headers. Check it out in the manual. http://www.php.net/download-docs.php if you don't have it. HTH Phil Parker From zines at dx13.co.uk Wed May 22 15:16:01 2002 From: zines at dx13.co.uk (Mike : delusional) Date: Wed May 22 15:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8527947386.20020522211419@dx13.co.uk> Hi, > Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? > I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the > result is somewhat hard to manage. www.dx13.co.uk .: Mike .: delusipna| .: www.dx13.co.uk ========================================== Reply to Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 7:29:00 PM: Subject : "[thelist] Currents trends in layout design" From zaunere at yahoo.com Wed May 22 15:21:00 2002 From: zaunere at yahoo.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Wed May 22 15:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] doing http requests using php (without curl?) In-Reply-To: <002201c201a6$23027e00$0300a8c0@BS> Message-ID: <20020522202014.93529.qmail@web12804.mail.yahoo.com> $remote = fsockopen('remote.host.com', 80); is the simplest way. Hans Z. New York PHP http://nyphp.org --- Ben Phillips wrote: > i am trying to carry out a http POST request in the middle of a php > script. this is without using curl as i'm on a shared server. > > basically, i need the functionality of HTTP::Request (perl) in php. > > any ideas? i hope i'm just overlooking a simple function that allows > me > to do this. > > benji > inchima.com > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From Christopher at ideadesigners.com Wed May 22 15:21:06 2002 From: Christopher at ideadesigners.com (Christopher Joseph) Date: Wed May 22 15:21:06 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <20020522194113.1ae58108.david@us-lot.org> Message-ID: since we're touting div based design http://www.ideadesigners.com with a little help from http://glish.com/css/ (not mine either!). ......s0ddin IE6 scrolling bug. Oh well not gonna change the design jus 'cos MS can`t get it right. chris. From h.t.d at gmx.de Wed May 22 15:22:01 2002 From: h.t.d at gmx.de (Howard The Duck) Date: Wed May 22 15:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] UTF-8/FormMail/PHP headaches Message-ID: <3CEC20CB.22011.71ED58@localhost> Well i'd do a regex check if any of your languages special chars are in the posted text - if they are it's ISO-8859-1 else it's UTF-8 a crazy hack but it might work if (!ereg ("[??????]", $postedtext)) $postedtext = utf8_decode($postedtext); adding an extra variable to check for is probably faster - you mentioned it already. Another idea is to copy your formmail script, rename it mailutf8.php, modify it as u need and use it on your new forms within the utf-8 encoded pages. Or you can run a script through all your webfiles that converts the files from ISO to utf-8 and change the servers settings to serve utf-8 only. for unix systems the following 2 lines should work (example): cd /var/www/ find . -name '*.html' | xargs recode iso-8859-1..utf-8 hth Yours HTD From crsaila at yahoo.ca Wed May 22 15:24:00 2002 From: crsaila at yahoo.ca (Craig Saila) Date: Wed May 22 15:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Help with character encodings References: Message-ID: <3CEBFE97.2010904@yahoo.ca> Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > I need some help understanding character encodings ( version="1.0" encoding="something"?>). How do you know what encoding > you're writing in? Is it set OS-wide? Program-specific? If so, how do > I set which encoding 1st Page 2000 uses in its files? How do I know > which is uses, if I can't change it? Firstly, avoid using the XML declaration () unless it is an XML file only. It can cause minor problems in some browsers (like IE 6). For a discussion on this see: As for the encoding, this is based on the characters/language you are using on the Web page. While encoding values are universal, the particular browser may not render the page properly if the character set it not installed (i.e., someone views a page with Japanese encoding, but doesn't have that language installed on their computer). The encoding value in XML defaults to "UTF-8", which is fine for most Western languages. You can also specify one of the ISO sets, e.g., "ISO-8859-1" For more about encodings, see the HTML spec: For more info about using XML declarations: Web Developers Virtual Library: "XML Declaration" -- Cheers, Craig Saila ------------------------------------------ craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/ ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From simon at incutio.com Wed May 22 15:29:01 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Wed May 22 15:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: References: <2621248013.20020522192240@dx13.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020522212652.026a8900@mail.incutio.com> At 13:29 22/05/02 -0500, Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: >Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? >I've attempted it to some extent (http://www.ballsome.com), and the >result is somewhat hard to manage. I'm working on a site at the moment that uses just divs and CSS for layout. It also has a style switched (link in the footer of the page) to change the style sheet dynamically. It's still an experimental prototype more than anything else but you can check it out here: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/nemesis/ From simon at incutio.com Wed May 22 15:32:00 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Wed May 22 15:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] doing http requests using php (without curl?) In-Reply-To: <002201c201a6$23027e00$0300a8c0@BS> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020522212955.025ddec0@mail.incutio.com> At 16:34 22/05/02 +0100, you wrote: >i am trying to carry out a http POST request in the middle of a php >script. this is without using curl as i'm on a shared server. > >basically, i need the functionality of HTTP::Request (perl) in php. > >any ideas? i hope i'm just overlooking a simple function that allows me >to do this. I recommend Snoopy - it's a PHP class for making HTTP requests (both POST and GET) that doesn't rely on any external libraries. It's a very well written piece of code and I've used it for a variety of purposes in the past. http://snoopy.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Simon From michael at tapinternet.com Wed May 22 15:33:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Wed May 22 15:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] References: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF2377015915@PEFL-PDC> Message-ID: <3CEC0051.8000302@tapinternet.com> Haag, Jason wrote: > >>From my reading on several developer discussion boards during the past >several months, >a lot of people are referencing these examples. >If NS ever wants to reclaim it's share of the browser market aside from the >AOL browser incoporation/conversion, >they should play the propoganda game or at least demonstrate some easily >implemented examples for developers. > > They won't. There are some basic XUL functionality (you know, that stuff that Mozilla-lovers have been touting as the MS killer?) that simply won't work without having to manually CLOSE the browser, locate some obscure prefs file, edit it (with currently undocmented stuff) then restart. NO ONE will do that, and if the developers can't make such basic stuff on by default NOW (during testing) they'll never make this stuff on by default for production. The primary people motivated into working on Mozilla are doing it because they love to adhere to standards, not out of a love of making a great browser. They generally think that implementing standards *will* make a better browser, but the 'great browser' part is secondary to great standards. Things that are painfully obvious to anyone who works with web applications are still broken. The people writing Mozilla can't be using it to write web applications. We wouldn't buy cars from engineers who either didn't or couldn't drive, yet we're expected to use browsers written by people who don't understand the basics of web applications? Also, reclaiming marketshare from MS is, I think, the last thing of Mozilla developers' minds. It's too easy for most people to revel in the 'victim' role. Oh, and yes, if it shows up the headers, I'm writing this in Mozilla's mail program, because it's the only thing under Linux that works with my IMAP account. I'm trying to go a week without using Windows for anything (day 2 so far). :) Michael Kimsal From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 16:02:00 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 16:02:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ANSI Encoding Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What's the encoding="" string for ANSI? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOwHI3880CLOJa2eEQIR+wCdH3lzc7n/y6SEX+XsNIlPTJiU+rIAn3po bqlZk8K9t8oRNuGl8vyEnoy/ =Ig/Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 16:41:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Wed May 22 16:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Quality Control, etc. of MS products References: Message-ID: <005f01c201d9$19276b60$87b6b7c7@compaq> [ snippity snip ] > I'm going to assume you're pretty young (I'm 51, and began coding -- FORTRAN first -- in 1969). (Yeah, I know you warned > me about making assumptions. Can't go through life that way, my dear.) So you probably don't > have the background to remember a time when code was actually pretty clean, and tight, and users expected absolute > consistency (even though it was a command line interface -- mostly via JCL -- or Job Control Language). There were no > official Quality Control departments, but there were written specs (usually no documentation, either). > [ /snip] First of all, let me say that I am a late comer to this one...I was having problems with getting through to the SMTP servers at evolt. I don't know how young the person is that you were referring to, but I think that it is not fair of you to bring up age as a prerequisite ... "so you probably don't have...". I am 22, and have had experiences with both FORTRAN and JCL (mainframe COBOL programming). It surprises me that you say that there were "no official Quality Control departments". Since it would make more to sense to have stringent quality control in those days. Considering that companies (or universities) that had computer resources (be it mainframe or workstations), usually charged by CPU time. So, unless you had lots of money to burn, you made sure that the job you were about to submit was devoid of errors. Most jobs, if my memory serves me correctly, were sumitted on punch cards, and it was a pain to go back and have to recode everything once you found an error. > Then came Microsoft, and weird things started to happen. I have a huge pile of complaints about their software, going back > to my first experiences of their OS [...] One of the strange things that happened with Microsoft was the computing became a household name. I don't know how accurate my dates are, but before Windows first came out, I think there was the Apple I (or was it IIe). Of course, DOS was around, and computers were very expensive. I remember my dad buying an IBM XT (8hz, 10 if you hit the turbo button, 40 meg hard disk) for $5000. Windows took the computing platform to the masses, making it easier to everyone...not just computer scientists/enthusiasts/geeks. With mass use of computers came the inevitable downturn in prices, etc. I am not saying that Microsoft's practices aren't questionable, after all, they bought DOS from IBM, and "borrowed" the mouse/gui aspects from Xerox. You have to admit though, that it is partly because of Windows that we have such abundant use of personal computers. How many vendors do you know that advertise PCs preloaded with Linux/Unix on TV? Last I can remember, the only time I've even seen Linux in a TV ad was the IBM E-Business ad campaign. > I've know MS programmers, too, and that's how I know it's not the programmers who do the bad work. It's the corporate culture. > It also has to do with economics. The more new "features" that a program has, the more the marketing department can hype it, and the more the company can charge for it...its true for any software business, not just Microsoft. With stringent deadlines, itchy wall street dynamics, its hardly surprising that software is being developed at a breakneck speed. > Btw, I agree with you that MS has very strict standards for *other companies'* code before they will allow the other companies > to say their product runs on Windows (whatever version). But they don't meet their own standards. Remember when all programs > HAD to be uninstallable? Except, of course, for the MS applications.... > Hmm...except for IE ... I can't think of any other MS application that can't be uninstalled. Even windows can be uninstalled, you have to choose the option at setup. > Not trying to start a war, but the younger folks don't know why some of us hate MS so passionately. They have literally killed about > 4 of my favorite apps (that is, they drove the companies out of the market; I still use these orphan apps). In one case I know of, they > told the original owners of XyWrite -- as MS Word was about to come out with a feature that XyWrite had had for half a decade at that > point (the auto-spell replace feature, with customizable dictionary), that they would sue XyWrite if XyWrite didn't remove that feature! > This is not fair competition; this is bald-faced app-war-by-having-more-capital-to-pay-lawyers. > Don't know the specifics here, but if what you say is right (and not media hype), then I totally agree. > Finally, by following exactly the MS instructions, I once destroyed a huge file which I needed -- in MS Outlook, trying to create a new > folder (it used the same name, bypassing the steps the instructions had indicated I would be able to go through to name it; then > when it asked if I wanted to delete it, and I said yes, it deleted the PREVIOUS file, the one the cursor was NOT on!). My consulting > friends (in NYC) advised me to try to contact MS. I walked over there, and couldn't get past the front desk. Literally. No one in the > lobby would allow me to talk to anyone, whether I wanted to pay for help or whatever. That was the last time I used a MS product, > other than OS's, and I tell everyone all about the dangers of their products every chance I get. No one expects microsoft (or anything else, for that matter) to be perfect. I've had incidents like this happen to me too, but I don't know how adamant I am about blaming Microsoft. After all, if I deleted a file, I should have been able to restore it from backup. That is no excuse for Microsoft's bugs, but I think that a little bit of responsible computing goes a long way in preventing tech support headaches. Yes, they have a responsibility to users of their software. To make sure that the programs they sell are free of bugs, and if bugs are detected, they are fixed, promptly. I am not a Microsoft spokesman, not an employee, but I see too many cases of people (and companies), blaming Microsoft for their problems, just because its there, its big, its got money, and everyone else is doing it too. *waving white flag* Just my 2 cents, Burhan Khalid From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 16:48:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Wed May 22 16:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS problem References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708B7@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <008701c201da$114ca850$87b6b7c7@compaq> If you give them each a percentage width, they will not overlap, but will shrink and expand as the page resizes : #right { width:20%; } #center { width:60%; } #left { width:20%;} More on this @ www.glish.com/css/2.asp hth, Burhan Khalid From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 16:53:00 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Wed May 22 16:53:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? Message-ID: <009101c201da$b2027900$87b6b7c7@compaq> Hello All : Has anyone here experimented with the new CURL programming language for the web? "Curl is a new language for creating web documents with almost any sort of content, from simple formatted text to complex interactive applets." I read about it in some magazine, can't remember....here is the website if anyone is interested : http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/toplevel.html I'd love to know what you think, Burhan Khalid From Liorean at user.bip.net Wed May 22 17:34:01 2002 From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean) Date: Wed May 22 17:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 In-Reply-To: <008401c201ae$c97a06b0$2860398a@newcos.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020522233636.00b3ba28@pop3.bip.net> At 09:36 2002-05-22 -0700, James Aylard wrote: >Jonathan, > > Interesting. Does anyone know where the NS7PR1 branch comes off the >Mozilla > > code tree? > It's an RC2 variant: >Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020512/7.0b1 > The Mozilla 1.0 RC2 release had a date of 20020510, so presumably >Netscape 7 PR1 is from a nightly build shortly thereafter. It's forked from the RC2 trunk... which means it separated from the main development at the same time RC2 did, but from that it's had a few days of independent development. > In my guesstimation, the reason for the new version number is tied to >AOL's version number, and would seem to be further evidence that Netscape >will eventually be integrated into AOL software. But Netscape has shown a >penchant to play loose with version numbers in the past, so it may just be >marketing. Netscape realised the 6.x version was ruined long before this version, and planned to go with 7.0 for their version based on Mozilla 1.0 before they released 6.1. They still had to make updates to show that they were making progress though, and to keep the few users they had. The final 7.0 version will be based on whatever Moz version is deemed stable and user friendly enough, likely 1.0 or 1.01. Their mistake was to release a beta version as a full version in the first place, and not fixing the design and usability at that. The general public that Netscape wants to reach is those that wants a browser they can use, not those that want the most standards compliant browser with the most complex settings for the most amount of user configurability. Those would only go with Mozilla instead anyway. The problem really lies in that people see the major version number - 6 - and conclude that it's a bad browser, since the 6.0 version was, instead of realising that the minor version, what ever it might be, is what really differentiates the bad browser from the good browser. Thus, 6.0 and all minor version will take on the "badwill" that 6.0 got, and 7.0 will get more goodwill simply since they tell the public "Look here, it's a new and improved version, that we want you to try out and use!". And, in fact, I think the browser deserves a major version change. Differences between 6.0 and 7.0 are far bigger than those between 2.0 and 3.0 or even 3.0 and 4.0. As for the browser itself, what I'm disappointed about is that Netscape when releasing 6.01 promised that the 7.0 version would bundle with JavaScript 2.0, Netscape's version of the upcoming ECMA-262 4ed. No such thing seems to be within reach of this version. In fact, version 1.5 of JavaScript is not yet frozen. The getters and setters syntax for instance have been changed since the 1.5 core reference and guide were released, and the shorthand syntax for some literals such as /regexp/(string) for /regexp/.exec(string) has been removed. Not to speak of the lack of a client guide and reference. // Liorean From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 18:26:00 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed May 22 18:26:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? In-Reply-To: <009101c201da$b2027900$87b6b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: burhan, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Burhan Khalid > > Has anyone here experimented with the new CURL > programming language for the web? > > "Curl is a new language for creating web documents with > almost any sort of content, from simple formatted text > to complex interactive applets." > > I read about it in some magazine, can't remember....here > is the website if anyone is interested : > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/toplevel.html ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< actually, that's a link to some research done on curl. the actual link is: http://curl.com/ curl isn't all that new. it's been around for at least a couple of years. there's a couple of threads a while back right here on thelist: http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010423/thread.html#31929 http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010806/thread.html#54719 good luck, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From eol1 at yahoo.com Wed May 22 18:32:01 2002 From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Peter Thoenen) Date: Wed May 22 18:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] In-Reply-To: <3CEC0051.8000302@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <20020522233104.88682.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Maybe I am missing something here but what does any web browser have to do web applications or the way they are designed (other than the visual client frontend). I routinely develop web applications that work in any browser the client wants to use whether its Lynx, IE, Moz, or some wierd custom perl browser for Amiga (if such exists :). As long as the browser supports HTTP1.0 my applications will work. I just don't see where you are coming from stating Mozilla hurts web developers..since I don't see how in any they the interop. Note: I do not consider Web Designers to be web devolpers. Web developers build web applications, web designsers build sites. >From a web designer point... Mozilla is way more friendly to web designers. IE needs to get its IE / Windows tags out of its *ss. -Peter --- Michael KImsal wrote: > Haag, Jason wrote: > > > > >>From my reading on several developer discussion > boards during the past > >several months, > >a lot of people are referencing these examples. > >If NS ever wants to reclaim it's share of the > browser market aside from the > >AOL browser incoporation/conversion, > >they should play the propoganda game or at least > demonstrate some easily > >implemented examples for developers. > > > > > > They won't. There are some basic XUL functionality > (you know, that > stuff that > Mozilla-lovers have been touting as the MS killer?) > that simply won't work > without having to manually CLOSE the browser, locate > some obscure prefs > file, edit it (with currently undocmented stuff) > then restart. NO ONE will > do that, and if the developers can't make such basic > stuff on by default > NOW > (during testing) they'll never make this stuff on by > default for > production. > > The primary people motivated into working on Mozilla > are doing it because > they love to adhere to standards, not out of a love > of making a great > browser. > They generally think that implementing standards > *will* make a > better browser, but the 'great browser' part is > secondary to great > standards. > > Things that are painfully obvious to anyone who > works with web applications > are still broken. The people writing Mozilla can't > be using it to write > web applications. We wouldn't buy cars from > engineers who either > didn't or couldn't drive, yet we're expected to use > browsers written by > people > who don't understand the basics of web applications? > > Also, reclaiming marketshare from MS is, I think, > the last thing > of Mozilla developers' minds. It's too easy for > most people to revel > in the 'victim' role. > > Oh, and yes, if it shows up the headers, I'm writing > this in Mozilla's > mail program, > because it's the only thing under Linux that works > with my IMAP account. > I'm > trying to go a week without using Windows for > anything (day 2 so far). > > :) > > Michael Kimsal > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From michael at tapinternet.com Wed May 22 18:39:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Wed May 22 18:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] References: <20020522233104.88682.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> Peter Thoenen wrote: >Maybe I am missing something here but what does any >web browser have to do web applications or the way >they are designed (other than the visual client >frontend). I routinely develop web applications that >work in any browser the client wants to use whether >its Lynx, IE, Moz, or some wierd custom perl browser >for Amiga (if such exists :). As long as the browser >supports HTTP1.0 my applications will work. I just >don't see where you are coming from stating Mozilla >hurts web developers..since I don't see how in any >they the interop. > >Note: I do not consider Web Designers to be web >devolpers. Web developers build web applications, web >designsers build sites. > >>From a web designer point... Mozilla is way more >friendly to web designers. IE needs to get its IE / >Windows tags out of its *ss. > From a web designer point of view, each only render whatever tags you put in them. Dunno what these 'IE' tags you're talking about are, as I generally just use HTML. Here's a test for you. Develop a form which POSTs some data back to the same URL. Have that script output some information to the browser. Using Mozilla as your browser, do a 'VIEW SOURCE'. The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the URL, resulting in the source you're looking at being different from what the browser rendered. Printing is the same, and it's even worse with printing because I can't print gzipped data (I like to compress stuff to keep the bandwidth bill low). Actually, I retract that - the latest mozillas I believe do print gzipped data properly. It's a 'known' issue for about 4 years now, with, sad to say, no fix in site. From gozz at gozz.com Wed May 22 18:52:01 2002 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Wed May 22 18:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] MSSQL Worm In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522103910.01c65e60@baratta.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522103910.01c65e60@baratta.com> Message-ID: How to get rid of it: http://www.appsecinc.com/resources/alerts/mssql/02-0002.html The services.exe it puts in the drivers directory is a renamed port scanner ... I couldn't end the process but it let me rename it to services.txt and delete it, then reboot. -- __________________________________________ - Erik Mattheis (612) 377 2272 http://goZz.com/ Through June 15 9am - 3pm M-F: (952) 838 7698 __________________________________________ From eol1 at yahoo.com Wed May 22 18:55:01 2002 From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Peter Thoenen) Date: Wed May 22 18:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] In-Reply-To: <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <20020522235417.31797.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> We are not here to discuss bugs (try in 100% css1 complaint IE 6 using a xhtml1.1 doctype and tell me what you get..100% css1 complaint huh) ... we are talking about how Mozilla hampers web development (with applications). I can't think of a single web application in my life I have developed or even seen that I needed THE CLIENT (or end user) to print the source to a form submitted to itself. But maybe thats just me (wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong), maybe you have some odd clients that like the ability to do this, I would like to meet these clients though, hell maybe I can quit using dynamic pdf generation to print invoices and just tell them to print the source for their financial records. As for printing the visual page on the screen, I don't exactly see how this hampers me or you either. Sure we all would like to keep the bandwidth bill low but is it really a show stopper, nope. Its an annoyance and one that is fixed as you kindly stated. Now when you get done complaining about specific Mozilla bugs that don't effect web development (as in applications)..maybe you can point me to some code that Mozilla can't do but is required for your web applications to run (or hell..even code that makes you life as a developer more difficult). Cheers, -Peter --- Michael KImsal wrote: > Peter Thoenen wrote: > > >Maybe I am missing something here but what does any > >web browser have to do web applications or the way > >they are designed (other than the visual client > >frontend). I routinely develop web applications > that > >work in any browser the client wants to use whether > >its Lynx, IE, Moz, or some wierd custom perl > browser > >for Amiga (if such exists :). As long as the > browser > >supports HTTP1.0 my applications will work. I just > >don't see where you are coming from stating Mozilla > >hurts web developers..since I don't see how in any > >they the interop. > > > >Note: I do not consider Web Designers to be web > >devolpers. Web developers build web applications, > web > >designsers build sites. > > > >>From a web designer point... Mozilla is way more > >friendly to web designers. IE needs to get its IE > / > >Windows tags out of its *ss. > > > From a web designer point of view, each only render > whatever tags you > put in them. > Dunno what these 'IE' tags you're talking about are, > as I generally just > use HTML. > > Here's a test for you. > > Develop a form which POSTs some data back to the > same URL. > Have that script output some information to the > browser. > Using Mozilla as your browser, do a 'VIEW SOURCE'. > > The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the URL, > resulting > in the source you're looking at being different from > what the browser > rendered. > > Printing is the same, and it's even worse with > printing because I can't > print gzipped data (I like to compress stuff to keep > the bandwidth bill > low). > Actually, I retract that - the latest mozillas I > believe do print > gzipped data > properly. > > It's a 'known' issue for about 4 years now, with, > sad to say, no fix in > site. > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! ===== Never underestimate the extent of human stupidity. De Opresso Liber __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From dbindel at austin.rr.com Wed May 22 18:55:08 2002 From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel) Date: Wed May 22 18:55:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] HTTP POST request in VC++ Message-ID: I am codeveloping a should-be-simple weblog administration program in Visual C++. I need some help figuring out how to send HTTP POST requests through Visual C++ without using any Win32-specific code (I need it to be platform-portable.) Here is the way my program should work (if I only knew how to POST data!): 1) The user enters the weblog entry and clicks the "Upload" button 2) The program sends the entry data via HTTP POST to a PHP file on the web server 3) The PHP file adds the entry to the database and then echoes "UPLOADED" or "ERROR", based on the validity of the entry data. 4) The program reads the contents of what the PHP file returned (i.e. "UPLOADED" or "ERROR") and informs the user if the upload was successful or not. If anyone could please give me some advice on HTTP POSTing in Visual C++ it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, David Bindel And here's my tip: Try 1st Page 2000... it's a lot like Dreamweaver except for the awesome fact that it's FREE. Check it out at www.evrsoft.com And while you're at it, e-mail the developers and ask them to hurry up and release version 3. They're supposed to be showing their progress on 1st Page 3 on their front page, but their website hasn't been updated in at least half a year :-( I'm starting to wonder if they've stopped developing at all, but their website is still THERE at least. From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 19:10:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 19:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm going to feel like an idiot, I know.... For some reason I can't figure out a good way to center this entire page: http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html The stylesheet is at http://www.ballsome.com/test/stylesheets/ballsome.css Any tips? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOwzOn880CLOJa2eEQLLBwCdFy4iXRO/4DW8drZIyAD62SJ0ef4AoPGf 5k9n6KAqCdOVY0KVThGq8H7E =vgJE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 19:15:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Wed May 22 19:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] In-Reply-To: <20020522235417.31797.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: peter, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Peter Thoenen > > We are not here to discuss bugs [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< oh? surely these bugs hamper the ability to develop proper web-based applications, no? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > (try in 100% css1 complaint IE 6 using a xhtml1.1 > doctype and tell me what you get.. > 100% css1 complaint huh) ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< which xhtml1.1 doctype? transitional? strict? btw, you forget a name attribute value. you also forgot to leave a space between the closing double-quote of the value attribute and the closing slash in your tag. oh, you also forgot to wrap that input in a
block? what's the full 100% css1 test document look like that you're saying i should try? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > ... we are talking about how Mozilla hampers web > development (with applications). ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< and believe it or not, bugs play a huge role in that. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > I can't think of a single web application in my life I > have developed or even seen that I needed THE CLIENT > (or end user) to print the source to a form submitted > to itself. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< he didn't say print the source. he said *view* the source and *print* the page in separate sentences. The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the URL, resulting in the source you're looking at being different from what the browser rendered. from a development view, that's a significant problem? as a developer, when i view the source i *expect* it will look exactly as the browser got it from the server. he then goes on to describe that printing exhibits the same behavior of doing a get for the content to be printed rather than printing what's on the screen. so, we've got two instances where the end result is the same. viewing the source gives you different source. printing gives you different source which results in a document that's rendered differently than the document in the browser window. that's huge. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Now when you get done complaining about specific Mozilla > bugs that don't effect web development (as in > applications) [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< easy sparky. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > ..maybe you can point me to some code that Mozilla can't > do but is required for your web applications to run (or > hell..even code that makes you life as a developer more > difficult). ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< there's lots. here's one that i dislike alot that makes my life of developing web-based applications difficult. how about mozilla not firing any event when a scrollable region is scrolled. this makes it impossible to show tabular data in a fixed size box where the overflow scrolls and have separate header columns above the scrollable region that move horizontally to match up with columns in the scrollable region. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From michael at tapinternet.com Wed May 22 19:20:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Wed May 22 19:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] References: <20020522235417.31797.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CEC356F.3090000@tapinternet.com> Peter Thoenen wrote: >We are not here to discuss bugs (try in 100% css1 >complaint IE 6 using a xhtml1.1 doctype type="checkbox" style="border: 1px solid #000000" >name="" value=""/> and tell me what you get..100% css1 >complaint huh) ... we are talking about how Mozilla >hampers web development (with applications). > >I can't think of a single web application in my life I >have developed or even seen that I needed THE CLIENT >(or end user) to print the source to a form submitted >to itself. > What I initially wrote: "Things that are painfully obvious to anyone who works with web applications are still broken. " Sorry - my mistake. I should have said "writes" instead of "works with". Because this is what my company does, we're perhaps closer to the problems than most people. However, it *will* have a worsening effect on the acceptance of Mozilla in a roundabout way. Because IE is still the friendliest in terms of web development day in/day out stuff (view source, view frame/page info, etc) it's what most people will continue to use to test web applications. That *is* the primary testing platform for everyone I know. If there's time left to test under other platforms, great. If not, the obligatory "best used with IE" stuff goes up. This feeds on itself, and contributes (in whatever small way) to IE's continued domination. Until another browser gives as many niceties to developers, other browsers will continue to be second fiddle, if only because of pure economics. I'll make sure something works on the dev platform first, others second. This is my perspective (and that of many of the people I know) regarding web application development. Other development scenarios may be different. >But maybe thats just me (wouldn't be the >first time I have been wrong), maybe you have some odd >clients that like the ability to do this, I would like >to meet these clients though, hell maybe I can quit >using dynamic pdf generation to print invoices and >just tell them to print the source for their financial >records. > >As for printing the visual page on the screen, I don't >exactly see how this hampers me or you either. Sure >we all would like to keep the bandwidth bill low but >is it really a show stopper, nope. Its an annoyance >and one that is fixed as you kindly stated. Now when >you get done complaining about specific Mozilla bugs >that don't effect web development (as in >applications)..maybe you can point me to some code >that Mozilla can't do but is required for your web >applications to run (or hell..even code that makes you >life as a developer more difficult). > We've been banging our heads against issues with trying to invoke XUL applications from remote servers. There are a number of issues with both execution, security, and error handling that I'd have figured would have been addressed or even known about at this stage in the game, but we're still finding them. Application development (developing Mozilla-based client side apps to enhance the web application) is severely hampered by this. It's a constantly moving target - I can only hope that something freezes with 1.0, but by the same token I don't want a 'frozen' standard that is broken/buggy. These "specific bugs" affect web application development because they slow everything down when using/testing on Mozilla. I'm 'complaining' about things because earlier in the thread people had this idea that "if only the Mozilla team got serious about XML stuff, they'd do some demo apps". I was pointing out they're NOT that serious about delivering something to 'best' IE, they're writing something to satisfy themselves, and it's not very likely they'll put out the type of developer demo apps someone was asking for. "Development" and "applications" are two different things. If development is slowed the application can suffer if only because it took longer to be released, depriving end users of its functionality. Mozilla in particular seems to be playing catchup/copycat more often than not - good features still, but there are things they could put in that they won't, at least until after MS does, then everyone will copy them yet again. I'm talking relatively simple stuff like a file upload progress bar (requested of Mozilla development team years ago). *minor* feature like that would give them huge mindshare/press and admiration from end users as something innovative no one else is doing yet. From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Wed May 22 19:52:01 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Wed May 22 19:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] In-Reply-To: <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> References: <20020522233104.88682.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <18415924898.20020523024609@student.tue.nl> MK> Here's a test for you. MK> Develop a form which POSTs some data back to the same URL. MK> Have that script output some information to the browser. MK> Using Mozilla as your browser, do a 'VIEW SOURCE'. MK> The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the URL, resulting MK> in the source you're looking at being different from what the browser MK> rendered. This can really hamper development. Especially if you're unaware of it. I can remember myself hacking away at the code for hours because I was generating double records from time to time and I didn't have a clue why. I ended up redirecting them to a different page. What this knowledge in the back of my head I could've realized that every time I viewed the source the new get would create a new record and thus forced me to make a redirect to a different page which ... tadaaa solved the problem because it got another page. Funny, I blamed it on the server back then ... - michiel From evolt at zamba.com Wed May 22 20:19:01 2002 From: evolt at zamba.com (Tony Page) Date: Wed May 22 20:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c201f7$b0e1c090$6401a8c0@Workstation> Solved it by putting the SWFs in two different TDs as you suggested (the easy way out!). BTW, I was using IE6 on XP when I got the problem. Thanks for the comments, Erik. Regards, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mattheis > Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2002 11:01 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely > > > It most be a browser-specific rendering problem, shows up fine for me. > > A surefire solution would be to make them into one movie. > > You could also try putting them in different TDs, or forcing > the height to be available with a spacer gif. > > Or, this is a wild guess: Because they are in an TD with a > style defined by an external stylesheet, it might need that > style defined ... so maybe try moving the jrcbody to the > embedded stylesheet on this page. > > >I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the > >second movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading > the page, the > >movie shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in > the site: > >http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm From evolt at zamba.com Wed May 22 20:27:01 2002 From: evolt at zamba.com (Tony Page) Date: Wed May 22 20:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely In-Reply-To: <000b01c2019b$5bc3ea40$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> Message-ID: <002f01c201f8$e8212a40$6401a8c0@Workstation> Hi Martin, I'm not quite sure if there's a problem, the movie (after the loading intro) stops on the first frame so you can read the message about eg Arthroscopic surgery. Then it starts again when you press the "See step by step" button and goes to step 1 where it stops. You read about the first step, then press the play animation button and on it goes. Where exactly were you having the problem? Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Kuplens-Ewart > Sent: Thursday, 23 May 2002 12:17 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] Problem with second SWF not showing completely > > > >I have a problem with some pages with two SWFs on each, where the > >second movie is cropped slightly at the top. On reloading > the page, the > > >movie shows completely. Here is one URL, there are others in > the site: > >http://www.jointreconstruction.com/kneeinjury/arthro.htm > > I only just noticed this puppy... ...your movie is stop();ping on its > first(?) frame on my pc... [p3,god knows what speed,128mb > ram,winXP, ie6] > > If I right-click and select "play", it shows the rest... > ...perhaps an explicit call to play(); in frame one might do > the trick... > > Again, if this has been previously suggested, I apologise... > Don't have the time to sift thru the back-posts in the archives. > > -m > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From eol1 at yahoo.com Wed May 22 20:49:01 2002 From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Peter Thoenen) Date: Wed May 22 20:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020523014826.6175.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Jeff, inline. Also let me reiterate while Mozilla has lots of bugs that visually hamper Web designers, nobody has yet to come up with one that would stop a webappliation front end (non-visual).. I want application breaker, not visually oddity. We can all find errors in browsers A, B, C, D ... what matters is as long as the do HTTP1.0..i don't see them breaking ANY web applications as the orginal post implied Mozilla doing. Rest inline. --- ".jeff" wrote: > peter, > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > From: Peter Thoenen > > > > We are not here to discuss bugs [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > oh? surely these bugs hamper the ability to develop > proper web-based > applications, no? > Not at all. Visual rendering bugs do NOT break web applications. Your application should work in lynx. May not be visually pleasing but works. Visual don't aren't a show stopper. See my thoughts on http1.0 > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > (try in 100% css1 complaint IE 6 using a xhtml1.1 > > doctype and tell me what you > get.. > > 100% css1 complaint huh) > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > which xhtml1.1 doctype? transitional? strict? > > btw, you forget a name attribute value. > > you also forgot to leave a space between the closing > double-quote of the > value attribute and the closing slash in your > tag. > > oh, you also forgot to wrap that input in a >
block? > > what's the full 100% css1 test document look like > that you're saying i > should try? First off, that was pseudo code. But to keep everybody happy, here you go: http://www.nthroot.net/input.html Next, space is between the / and the closing attribute " is suggested for BACKWARDS compatibility. We aren't discussing this. It is a preference, not a requirement. XML validates just fine without it and it perfectly *legal* When you show me a transitional xhtml1.1 !DOCTYPE, I might take that comment seriously. XMTLM1.1 REQUIRES (per spec) that it meets XHTML1.0 STRICT and then some. No transitional mentioned in 1.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/xhtml11_dtd.html#a_xhtml11_dtd the spec if you don't believe me. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ... we are talking about how Mozilla hampers web > > development (with applications). > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > and believe it or not, bugs play a huge role in > that. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > I can't think of a single web application in my > life I > > have developed or even seen that I needed THE > CLIENT > > (or end user) to print the source to a form > submitted > > to itself. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > he didn't say print the source. he said *view* the > source and *print* the > page in separate sentences. > > The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the > URL, > resulting in the source you're looking at being > different from what the browser rendered. > > from a development view, that's a significant > problem? as a developer, when > i view the source i *expect* it will look exactly as > the browser got it from > the server. > As a developer I don't. I have access to the code, I expect it to work. If it doesn't, I will run it through my handy PHP IDE and track everything. If you soley rely on a browser view source to track bugs for your web applications, I am sorry. When the browser starts showing SSI or server side languages (which you are going to need for an web application)..just maybe I might decide a browser belong on my web application tool list. Until then, I will continue to use it for what it was meant for, display web pages (and to visually troubleshoot my web designs..!applications) > he then goes on to describe that printing exhibits > the same behavior of > doing a get for the content to be printed rather > than printing what's on the > screen. > > so, we've got two instances where the end result is > the same. viewing the > source gives you different source. printing gives > you different source > which results in a document that's rendered > differently than the document in > the browser window. > > that's huge. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > Now when you get done complaining about specific > Mozilla > > bugs that don't effect web development (as in > > applications) [...] > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > easy sparky. > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ..maybe you can point me to some code that Mozilla > can't > > do but is required for your web applications to > run (or > > hell..even code that makes you life as a developer > more > > difficult). > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > there's lots. here's one that i dislike alot that > makes my life of > developing web-based applications difficult. > > how about mozilla not firing any event when a > scrollable region is scrolled. > this makes it impossible to show tabular data in a > fixed size box where the > overflow scrolls and have separate header columns > above the scrollable > region that move horizontally to match up with > columns in the scrollable > region. I will admit ignorance on this one. I have yet to run into this issue. Will admit I am not perfect. > .jeff > > http://evolt.org/ > jeff at members.evolt.org > http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ Peter * Who is not trying to flame but is rather amazed somebody would accuse Mozilla of not being Web Application friendly when I see it just as friendly as ANY http1.0 browser * __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From mark at markgroen.com Wed May 22 21:04:01 2002 From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen) Date: Wed May 22 21:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CEBEAD1.18946.22A0E9E@localhost> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm going to feel like an idiot, I know.... > > For some reason I can't figure out a good way to center this entire > page: http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html > > The stylesheet is at > http://www.ballsome.com/test/stylesheets/ballsome.css > Try this in your body CSS: text-align:center; From eol1 at yahoo.com Wed May 22 21:20:00 2002 From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Peter Thoenen) Date: Wed May 22 21:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Michael In-Reply-To: <3CEC356F.3090000@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <20020523021935.12940.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> I submit :) ... 99% of my web application development is in database apps. Not a huge client side XML guy. (Other than what I need to know to create client frontends). I will admit though that I am glad you took the time to put me in my place :) instead of blindy saying "because thats just the way it is" . Hats off to you for that. Only reason I went defensive was in my experience, I haven't ever seen ANY browser affecting how i develop my applications (other than visual niceties) and felt Mozilla was unduley (?sp) being slandering for no apparent reason, not really a stab at you personally. Cheers, -Peter (who goes back to lurking on the list) --- Michael KImsal wrote: > Peter Thoenen wrote: > > >We are not here to discuss bugs (try in 100% css1 > >complaint IE 6 using a xhtml1.1 doctype >type="checkbox" style="border: 1px solid #000000" > >name="" value=""/> and tell me what you get..100% > css1 > >complaint huh) ... we are talking about how Mozilla > >hampers web development (with applications). > > > >I can't think of a single web application in my > life I > >have developed or even seen that I needed THE > CLIENT > >(or end user) to print the source to a form > submitted > >to itself. > > > > What I initially wrote: > "Things that are painfully obvious to anyone who > works with web > applications > are still broken. " > > Sorry - my mistake. I should have said "writes" > instead of "works with". > > Because this is what my company does, we're perhaps > closer to the > problems than most people. However, it *will* have > a worsening effect > on the acceptance of Mozilla in a roundabout way. > > Because IE is still the friendliest in terms of web > development day > in/day out > stuff (view source, view frame/page info, etc) it's > what most people > will continue > to use to test web applications. That *is* the > primary testing platform > for > everyone I know. If there's time left to test under > other platforms, > great. If not, > the obligatory "best used with IE" stuff goes up. > > This feeds on itself, and contributes (in whatever > small way) to IE's > continued domination. Until another browser gives > as many > niceties to developers, other browsers will continue > to be second fiddle, > if only because of pure economics. I'll make sure > something works on the > dev platform first, others second. > > This is my perspective (and that of many of the > people I know) regarding > web application development. Other development > scenarios may be different. > > >But maybe thats just me (wouldn't be the > >first time I have been wrong), maybe you have some > odd > >clients that like the ability to do this, I would > like > >to meet these clients though, hell maybe I can quit > >using dynamic pdf generation to print invoices and > >just tell them to print the source for their > financial > >records. > > > >As for printing the visual page on the screen, I > don't > >exactly see how this hampers me or you either. > Sure > >we all would like to keep the bandwidth bill low > but > >is it really a show stopper, nope. Its an > annoyance > >and one that is fixed as you kindly stated. Now > when > >you get done complaining about specific Mozilla > bugs > >that don't effect web development (as in > >applications)..maybe you can point me to some code > >that Mozilla can't do but is required for your web > >applications to run (or hell..even code that makes > you > >life as a developer more difficult). > > > We've been banging our heads against issues with > trying to invoke > XUL applications from remote servers. There are a > number of issues > with both execution, security, and error handling > that I'd have figured > would have been addressed or even known about at > this stage in the game, > but we're still finding them. Application > development (developing > Mozilla-based client side apps to enhance the web > application) is severely > hampered by this. It's a constantly moving target - > I can only hope > that something freezes with 1.0, but by the same > token I don't want a > 'frozen' > standard that is broken/buggy. > > These "specific bugs" affect web application > development because they slow > everything down when using/testing on Mozilla. I'm > 'complaining' about > things > because earlier in the thread people had this idea > that "if only the > Mozilla team > got serious about XML stuff, they'd do some demo > apps". I was pointing out > they're NOT that serious about delivering something > to 'best' IE, > they're writing > something to satisfy themselves, and it's not very > likely they'll put > out the > type of developer demo apps someone was asking for. > > "Development" and "applications" are two different > things. If > development is > slowed the application can suffer if only because it > took longer to be > released, depriving end users of its functionality. > > Mozilla in particular seems to be playing > catchup/copycat more often > than not - > good features still, but there are things they could > put in that they > won't, at least > until after MS does, then everyone will copy them > yet again. I'm > talking relatively > simple stuff like a file upload progress bar > (requested of Mozilla > development > team years ago). *minor* feature like that would > give them huge > mindshare/press > and admiration from end users as something > innovative no one else is > doing yet. > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Wed May 22 21:34:01 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Wed May 22 21:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020522222852.02889548@mail.idirect.ca> Download from the ftp here, if you want the whole 30 mb file: http://ftp14c.newaol.com/pub/netscape7/english/7.0_PR1/windows/win32/sea/NSSetupB.exe Peter Kaulback In the hour of 10:34 AM 5/22/2002 -0500, Hugh Blair spoke this: >Netscape 7.0 Prerelease 1 is now available: >http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ > >-- > Hugh From roselli at earthlink.net Wed May 22 22:11:03 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed May 22 22:11:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: References: <2621248013.20020522192240@dx13.co.uk> Message-ID: <3CEC24E9.25893.4D20240E@localhost> > From: "Joel Konkle-Parker" > > Has anyone attempted a site using solely divs and CSS positioning? [...] http://roselli.org/adrian/ known bugs include IE/Mac not displaying code blocks and Opera6 not digging the gratuitous JS i have to adjust the image opacity (which is only visible in IE5+)... otherwise, it's all semantic/structural mark-up, with a *minimum* of on the page... includes a style switcher, too, just because i wanted to make one that didn't rely on JS... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Wed May 22 23:39:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Wed May 22 23:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior Message-ID: <01ad01c20213$47512690$87b6b7c7@compaq> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Dear All : I've been noticing that one some sites, form fields automatically jump to the next one when filled. Does anyone know if this is Microsoft centric? I'm on XP using IE 6, or is it something to be coded into a form? Let me know if you need an example URL Regards, Burhan Khalid -- From martin at takingitglobal.org Wed May 22 23:47:01 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Wed May 22 23:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior In-Reply-To: <01ad01c20213$47512690$87b6b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <000a01c20214$b0731a10$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> This might be for telephone numbers, I'm guessing. Only way I can see that being done, is using javascript, although I'm not sure how... I guess you'd count the number of char's in a field and then move focus to the next field if there are three, or something similar. I'm sure someone out there must have some code... Or take a look at the page source... If they're linking to a .js... Take a look at that. :) I think bell canada does that for its DSL availability check, etc. -m -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Burhan Khalid Sent: May 23, 2002 12:35 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior > I've been noticing that one some sites, form fields automatically jump > to the next one when filled. Does anyone know if this is Microsoft > centric? From jjk3 at msstate.edu Wed May 22 23:53:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Wed May 22 23:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem In-Reply-To: <3CEBEAD1.18946.22A0E9E@localhost> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yeah, tried that, still not centered. Any other ideas? Again, the page: http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html and stylesheet: http://www.ballsome.com/test/stylesheets/ballsome.css - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com - -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Groen Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 11:01 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm going to feel like an idiot, I know.... > > For some reason I can't figure out a good way to center this entire > page: http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html > > The stylesheet is at > http://www.ballsome.com/test/stylesheets/ballsome.css > Try this in your body CSS: text-align:center; - -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPOx1nn880CLOJa2eEQKbVgCfWEXljlsZrvD0meOaxdwI8n99B0QAnRnl KR4GXKdXksZmYoDzkrhnQJxm =5M5i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 00:18:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Thu May 23 00:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: <20020523014826.6175.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: peter, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Peter Thoenen > > Also let me reiterate while Mozilla has lots of bugs > that visually hamper Web designers, nobody has yet to > come up with one that would stop a webappliation front > end (non-visual).. I want application breaker, not > visually oddity. We can all find errors in browsers > A, B, C, D ... what matters is as long as the do > HTTP1.0..i don't see them breaking ANY web applications > as the orginal post implied Mozilla doing. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< first off, http1.0 is not the current spec. http1.1 is. michael already mentioned a *very* serious issue with a web application. if a visitor is printing a page that shows a purchase receipt based on an invoice number posted from a form on the previous page, printing the page will result in no invoice number being posted, no purchase receipt being displayed, and nothing even similar being printed. that's not just a visual problem. that's an application problem. the upside is there are ways around that in most cases, but the fact remains that it's a huge flaw. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Not at all. Visual rendering bugs do NOT break web > applications. Your application should work in lynx. > May not be visually pleasing but works. Visual don't > aren't a show stopper. See my thoughts on http1.0 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i'm going to come back and say it depends on your audience. it also depends on your budget. the client may not have paid for that level of interoperability. see my comments about http1.1. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > First off, that was pseudo code. But to keep > everybody happy, here you go: > http://www.nthroot.net/input.html ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i agree it was psuedo-code, but it's hard to discern your intent from pseudo-code. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > Next, space is between the / and the closing attribute > " is suggested for BACKWARDS compatibility. We aren't > discussing this. It is a preference, not a requirement. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< it's a requirement if you want it to work on older browsers. make up your mind. first you say things should work in any http1.0 browser (which is a bit of a misnomer since there's more to a browser than which version of the http spec they support). now you're saying it doesn't matter if you include the space, it's just preference. well, in my world, that space is a requirement because i want it to be backwards compatible. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > XML validates just fine without it and it perfectly > *legal* ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< agreed, but an xml validator isn't displaying the page to your end user. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > When you show me a transitional xhtml1.1 !DOCTYPE, I > might take that comment seriously. XMTLM1.1 REQUIRES > (per spec) that it meets XHTML1.0 STRICT and then > some. No transitional mentioned in 1.1 > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/xhtml11_dtd.html > the spec if you don't believe me. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< who here is seriously using xhtml1.1? what browsers even properly support it? heck, it's not even listed as a valid doctype on the w3 validator. don't believe me? here's the list of doctypes the validator let's you choose from. (detect automatically) XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Frameset HTML 4.01 Strict HTML 4.01 Transitional HTML 4.01 Frameset HTML 3.2 HTML 2.0 i guess i fail to see the point you're trying to make with your example. sure, it validates, but how's it failing in ie6? i'm just not seeing how. i also don't see the point of having name attributes with no values. that g ives you form elements for ui, but doesn't pass anything to the server if successful. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > from a development view, that's a significant > > problem? as a developer, when i view the source i > > *expect* it will look exactly as the browser got it > > from the server. > > As a developer I don't. I have access to the code, I > expect it to work. If it doesn't, I will run it > through my handy PHP IDE and track everything. If you > soley rely on a browser view source to track bugs for > your web applications, I am sorry. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< that's one way of looking at it. unfortunately the ideal you talk about doesn't work for everyone or every situation. it's not unreasonable to expect the browser to show you the source of the document you're viewing and not be so broken as to make a new request just to show you. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > When the browser starts showing SSI or server side > languages (which you are going to need for an web > application)..just maybe I might decide a browser > belong on my web application tool list. Until then, > I will continue to use it for what it was meant for, > display web pages (and to visually troubleshoot my > web designs..!applications) ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i've built many high-end dynamic sites and i've always built them using the browser to do the development and debugging. i know all about queries, includes, entire variable states including local, session, cgi, form, url, etc. variables, execution times, and any possible error messages generated all within my web browser. would be a shame to be stuck where i didn't have that and had to instead rely on some form of ide to figure it out. just another perspective, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Thu May 23 00:24:00 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Thu May 23 00:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Quality Control, etc. of MS products In-Reply-To: <005f01c201d9$19276b60$87b6b7c7@compaq> References: <005f01c201d9$19276b60$87b6b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <1022132436.3123.1.camel@yafa> Burhan, You are right. One shouldn't complain about MSFT. I used to. Now I don't. Why? because I don't use MSFT products anymore. And should the time come and I get to hire people, then they won't use MSFT either. Samir M. Nassar -- RedConcepts.NET -- Open Solutions Design Syndicate Open Source, Public Service -- the Art and Craft of Webdesign http://redconcepts.net -- http://os-ds.com 'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds' From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu May 23 00:35:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Thu May 23 00:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape/Mozilla View-Source/Print Page Problems.... In-Reply-To: References: <20020523014826.6175.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522222948.031a2fe0@baratta.com> At 10:17 PM 5/22/2002, .jeff wrote: >michael already mentioned a *very* serious issue with a web application. if >a visitor is printing a page that shows a purchase receipt based on an >invoice number posted from a form on the previous page, printing the page >will result in no invoice number being posted, no purchase receipt being >displayed, and nothing even similar being printed. This particular problem has been with Mozilla for quite some time, pre .8 if I remember correctly. And that it's not fixed now, with 1.0 right around the corner, irks me to no end. I've read the threads at Bugzilla, and wish I could slap some sense into someone there to make this a critical issue prior to 1.0 going gold. If anyone has any suggestions on how to get this (and other important issues) fixed, please speak up. --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From peter at johansson.org Thu May 23 01:11:01 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Thu May 23 01:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] UTF-8/FormMail/PHP headaches In-Reply-To: <3CEC20CB.22011.71ED58@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 May 2002, Howard The Duck wrote: > Well i'd do a regex check if any of your languages special chars are in > the posted text - if they are it's ISO-8859-1 else it's UTF-8 > a crazy hack but it might work Thanks for the suggestions Howard, that could work. Problem is I'd have to check for _all_ special characters in the posted text since some forms are used for not only swedish but also other countries with special chars. > adding an extra variable to check for is probably faster - you mentioned > it already. Another idea is to copy your formmail script, rename it > mailutf8.php, modify it as u need and use it on your new forms within > the utf-8 encoded pages. Or you can run a script through all your > webfiles that converts the files from ISO to utf-8 and change the > servers settings to serve utf-8 only. for unix systems the following 2 > lines should work (example): I guess we could change the server settings to server UTF-8 only, but is it reliable? Will the pages show up correctly in whatever browser is used on the client? That would affect thousands of pages on a pretty high traffic, high profile site. As for now I think the separate script thing is the way to go, I'm not at all happy with it, but it seems to be the only reliable way of doing it. The simple and elegant solution just doesn't seem to exist in this case :( Thanks for helping out, Peter From steve.cook at evitbe.com Thu May 23 01:37:01 2002 From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook) Date: Thu May 23 01:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213B0FD@SBS> Well, you're not going to be able to do it with absolute positioning on the various elements. Take a look at this page: http://bluerobot.com/web/layouts/layout3.html from this colection of CSS templates: http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ There's an explanation of the concept of centering page content divs lower down on the first page and it suggests two different methods using Auto-width Margins or negative margin. Yup, it's a strange concept, but once you get something working it works pretty well. Good luck! .steve ---------------------------------- Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Konkle-Parker [mailto:jjk3 at msstate.edu] > Sent: den 23 maj 2002 06:53 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thelist] Dumb Centering Problem > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Yeah, tried that, still not centered. Any other ideas? > > Again, the page: http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html > and stylesheet: http://www.ballsome.com/test/stylesheets/ballsome.css > > > From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu Thu May 23 01:47:01 2002 From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean German) Date: Thu May 23 01:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [SQL] deleting records from associated tables Message-ID: <000e01c20225$7babd720$f17efea9@adlittle.com> Howdy, I'm spacing on something I think should be straightforward, but I don't have access to the db to check my thinking. I need to delete records from several tables all associated with one central table. Keys for the records to be deleted are in a separate table. In this case the central table is tblTracking, with the records to be deleted in tblTrackingDeletions. Other tables are joined with tblTracking by foreign key. Since I want existing records to be deleted with if there aren't coorespoding records in all of the associated tables (tblWorkOrder, tblInvoice, tblData), I want to use OUTER JOINs, right? Does this look right? Thanks, Sean G. DELETE FROM tblTracking RIGHT OUTER JOIN tblWorkOrder on (tblTracking.WorkOrderNum = tblWorkOrder.WorkOrderNum) RIGHT OUTER JOIN tblInvoice on (tblTracking.InvoiceNum = tblInvoice.InvoiceNum) RIGHT OUTER JOIN tblData on (tblTracking.DataKey = tblData.DataKey) INNER JOIN tblTrackingDeletions on (tblTracking.TrackingKey = tblTrackingDeletions.TrackingKey) tblTacking ---------- TrackingKey (pk) WorkOrderNum (fk) InvoiceNum (fk) DataKey (fk) tblWorkOrder ------------ WorkOrderNum (pk) WorkOrderReference tblInvoice ---------- InvoiceNum (pk) RecdDate Status tblData ------- DataKey (pk) Comments tblTrackingDeletions ----------------- TrackingKey From I.Burrett at LTScotland.com Thu May 23 02:05:01 2002 From: I.Burrett at LTScotland.com (Ian Burrett) Date: Thu May 23 02:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: Currents trends in layout design Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Well in my opinion, you should not be using table for anything other than a small matrix of information. Tables where never intended to be used for laying out the entire page. I say do the decent thing - separate your content from layout and use CSS and XHTML 1.0. Don't worry about lowly NE 4.x, simply so a sniffer script and remove the css from the pages that get passed to them . For more details see :- http://www.alistapart.com - loads of great articles about css / xhtml / validation / fly fishing... Before I embark on my latest endeavor, I'd like to get a few opinions on the matter of layout design. What's the consensus among web authors right now? Are table layouts still the One True Way, or has the W3C and CSS2 Positioning opened the door to something better? -joeljkp ______________________________________ Ian Burrett Web Development Team Learning & Teaching Scotland t: 0141 337 5072 e: i.burrett at LTScotland.com *********************************************************************** This e-mail, and any attachment, is privileged information and its contents are confidential to the intended recipient at the e-mail address to which it has been addressed. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than this addressee. If received in error, please contact Learning & Teaching Scotland on +(44) 141 337 5000 or e-mail enquiries at ltscotland.com, quoting the name of the sender and the addressee, and then delete it from your system. Please be aware that, although all reasonable steps have been taken, neither Learning & Teaching Scotland nor the sender is able to accept any responsibility for viruses. No contracts may be concluded on behalf of Learning & Teaching Scotland by means of e-mail communications. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of Learning & Teaching Scotland, unless specifically stated. ********************************************************************** From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 02:10:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Thu May 23 02:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Quality Control, etc. of MS products References: <005f01c201d9$19276b60$87b6b7c7@compaq> <1022132436.3123.1.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <01c401c20228$7fa851c0$87b6b7c7@compaq> Hey Samir : [ snip ] > You are right. One shouldn't complain about MSFT. I used to. Now I > don't. > > Why? because I don't use MSFT products anymore. And should the time come > and I get to hire people, then they won't use MSFT either. > [ /snip ] I would completely abandon MS if I could. But the reality is that MS is permeated into everything computing there is. Unless you try very hard, you can't avoid some interaction with MS products. The list is full with incidences where people have been struggling with MS products and inoperability with their creations. The truth is, you can't avoid MS, you can just do the best to make sure your programs/services co-hibit with MS's without too much of a perfomance/experience hit to the end user. Regards, Burhan Khalid From eol1 at yahoo.com Thu May 23 03:29:01 2002 From: eol1 at yahoo.com (Peter Thoenen) Date: Thu May 23 03:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020523082809.51877.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Jeff, --- ".jeff" wrote: > peter, > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > From: Peter Thoenen > > > > Also let me reiterate while Mozilla has lots of > bugs > > that visually hamper Web designers, nobody has yet > to > > come up with one that would stop a webappliation > front > > end (non-visual).. I want application breaker, not > > visually oddity. We can all find errors in > browsers > > A, B, C, D ... what matters is as long as the do > > HTTP1.0..i don't see them breaking ANY web > applications > > as the orginal post implied Mozilla doing. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > first off, http1.0 is not the current spec. http1.1 > is. > http1.1 is the current spec..but like you state later with xhmtl 1.1..who actual supports it. From a server side application prospective .. I don't use any http 1.1 specific code nor can I think of any reason to do so (though I admit I haven't looked that into it) > michael already mentioned a *very* serious issue > with a web application. if > a visitor is printing a page that shows a purchase > receipt based on an > invoice number posted from a form on the previous > page, printing the page > will result in no invoice number being posted, no > purchase receipt being > displayed, and nothing even similar being printed. > > that's not just a visual problem. that's an > application problem. > > the upside is there are ways around that in most > cases, but the fact remains > that it's a huge flaw. > This is an apples and oranges argument. I don't *personally* see this as an issue as I dynamically create .pdf files on the fly for my invoices for all customer purchases. I am not saying this is *correct* as it does have some isseus (lynx for one, requiring Adobe Acrobat Reader for another)... BUT I WILL ADMIT I can see where you are coming from. It would be nice if we didnt' have to work around this..still not a show stopper though. Every situation is different and each programs unto his own. I could see this as an issue. Now I am not an IE guy (or lynx for that matter..i am a big moz guy..that is first and foremost for me in ALL my testing) ... does (I am curious) IE or lynx display the proper code for a page the POST's to itself? If not, this is moot as we originally started about Mozilla bugs. If so, while I see BIGGER blocker bugs than this (for example..the document.lastmodifed() javascript bug)... I can see where ppl are coming from > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > Not at all. Visual rendering bugs do NOT break > web > > applications. Your application should work in > lynx. > > May not be visually pleasing but works. Visual > don't > > aren't a show stopper. See my thoughts on http1.0 > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > i'm going to come back and say it depends on your > audience. it also depends > on your budget. the client may not have paid for > that level of > interoperability. > > see my comments about http1.1. > I disagree on this. Regardless of my budget..I naturally code vendor neutral. Sure certain items I (you) can't make perfect in all browsers (for example I have given up on support NS4.x visually unless client contract REQUIRES ... I do IE6/Moz1.0/Lynx) due to client restraints... but I can sure as hell make it workable in all (most) browsers. Main reason I support Lynx is I have a job requirement to support (as in usable) audio browsers for visually disabled ppl and i personally believe ppl should quit discriminating against visually disabled ppl. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > First off, that was pseudo code. But to keep > > everybody happy, here you go: > > http://www.nthroot.net/input.html > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > i agree it was psuedo-code, but it's hard to discern > your intent from > pseudo-code. > > My point actually is kind of broke on this (as of Moz 0.9.9). IE should render those boxes with the border..not two seperate boxes. Mozilla used to do it as developers interput (per bugzilla) but changed it with 1.0). I could be wrong though as the css spec on 's is unclear. A better example though of IE css1 failure is
blah
. AS PER css1 specs this should center blah on the screen but this fails when you use a XHTML doctype as IE goes into quirk mode with .. This is a well known bug and many sites (including evolt) document a work around to this. This is really not worth arguing though..we (as in you/me/everybody) all agree each browser has visual bugs .. not the point of this discussion as we are discussing web app issues with Moz. Only reason I brought it up was the bug mentioning the view source on page posted to itself (which I regard as a visual bug..nothing more). ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > Next, space is between the / and the closing > attribute > > " is suggested for BACKWARDS compatibility. We > aren't > > discussing this. It is a preference, not a > requirement. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > it's a requirement if you want it to work on older > browsers. make up your > mind. first you say things should work in any > http1.0 browser (which is a > bit of a misnomer since there's more to a browser > than which version of the > http spec they support). now you're saying it > doesn't matter if you include > the space, it's just preference. well, in my world, > that space is a > requirement because i want it to be backwards > compatible. > > That is personally code for the example, not real world. I have learned long ago to use backward compatible xhtml code and routinely make sure all my code works (though maybe visually ugly as hell) in older browsers. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > XML validates just fine without it and it > perfectly > > *legal* > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > agreed, but an xml validator isn't displaying the > page to your end user. > > I see where you are coming from but see earlier comment...this code is for list example only..not real world application. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > When you show me a transitional xhtml1.1 !DOCTYPE, > I > > might take that comment seriously. XMTLM1.1 > REQUIRES > > (per spec) that it meets XHTML1.0 STRICT and then > > some. No transitional mentioned in 1.1 > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/xhtml11_dtd.html > > the spec if you don't believe me. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > who here is seriously using xhtml1.1? what browsers > even properly support > it? > > heck, it's not even listed as a valid doctype on the > w3 validator. don't > believe me? here's the list of doctypes the > validator let's you choose > from. > > (detect automatically) > XHTML 1.0 Strict > XHTML 1.0 Transitional > XHTML 1.0 Frameset > HTML 4.01 Strict > HTML 4.01 Transitional > HTML 4.01 Frameset > HTML 3.2 > HTML 2.0 > > i guess i fail to see the point you're trying to > make with your example. > sure, it validates, but how's it failing in ie6? > i'm just not seeing how. > Validate and IE6 point..see earlier comment XHTML1.1 ... I seriously apply, live by, and use it. Unless the client (who always has the final word) specifically dictates a need I can't meet in xhtml 1.1... I very well make sure it is valid. Also..why the validator doesn't allow inline overriding (as 1.1 is still a working draft.. ! a recommendation)..it does check it when the !DOCTYPE is declared. I see no reason anyboy would not validate and use 1.1 unless a client gets in the way. > i also don't see the point of having name attributes > with no values. that g > ives you form elements for ui, but doesn't pass > anything to the server if > successful. > No point..just a pseudo valid example. I see nothing to this comment other than pointing out little minor pseudo errors (like my earlier psuedo code). I also dont' see a point why I would name="" or value="" and my checkboxes / radio's do nothing. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > > from a development view, that's a significant > > > problem? as a developer, when i view the source > i > > > *expect* it will look exactly as the browser got > it > > > from the server. > > > > As a developer I don't. I have access to the > code, I > > expect it to work. If it doesn't, I will run it > > through my handy PHP IDE and track everything. If > you > > soley rely on a browser view source to track bugs > for > > your web applications, I am sorry. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > that's one way of looking at it. unfortunately the > ideal you talk about > doesn't work for everyone or every situation. > > it's not unreasonable to expect the browser to show > you the source of the > document you're viewing and not be so broken as to > make a new request just > to show you. > It is unreasonable when you are doing web application development. Most of the code is server side and I don't explect it to show me my server side only source in the client. As for the source on a new request..right or wrong..i don't ever post a form to itself..i just post it to another page...dont' see a reason not to (lets not get into a security argument on this one...each his own and both ways are equally unsecure) > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > When the browser starts showing SSI or server side > > languages (which you are going to need for an web > > application)..just maybe I might decide a browser > > belong on my web application tool list. Until > then, > > I will continue to use it for what it was meant > for, > > display web pages (and to visually troubleshoot my > > web designs..!applications) > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > i've built many high-end dynamic sites and i've > always built them using the > browser to do the development and debugging. i know > all about queries, > includes, entire variable states including local, > session, cgi, form, url, > etc. variables, execution times, and any possible > error messages generated > all within my web browser. would be a shame to be > stuck where i didn't have > that and had to instead rely on some form of ide to > figure it out. > > just another perspective, > > .jeff > my perspective (though it is not any more or less valid or right than yours), Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk Thu May 23 03:51:01 2002 From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes) Date: Thu May 23 03:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file Message-ID: Some while back I asked to write form information into a file and was provided with this $string = implode("\t",$_POST); $fp = fopen("file.txt","w"); fwrite($fp,$product); fclose($fp); it seems this can sit anywhere in the form. It does write to a file called file.txt However, this aint a solution. I need for each different user to be able to write to a different file and inparticular to be able to identify with that file later specifically in assocaition with the user who submitted the info :) does that make sense? Presumably I need have a session generate a new file for each visitor and then for the session to know that a file will be waiting to be written to? or could I keep writing each visitors info to the same file? The code above will not recognise individual users it will only overwrite anything submitted rfom the form! Andrew ********************************************************************** Information in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. You should not otherwise copy it, retransmit it or use or disclose its contents to anyone. Thank you for your co-operation. ********************************************************************** --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 From steve.cook at evitbe.com Thu May 23 04:21:01 2002 From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook) Date: Thu May 23 04:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213B103@SBS> What you are describing screams for a database solution. If you are not tied down to using a file-based system, then start looking at a simple database table to handle the information. Any basic introduction to working with databases in PHP should give you all the ammunition to code this. The reason I recommend a database is that it is built from the ground up to handle this sort of information. Using text files in this way (often referred to as using a "flat file database") is very possible, but is an absolute pain in the rear to maintain. I have built similar systems in the past and each and every time the support of the system was monstrous. In addition, code to add information, retrieve information and change information would require a huge amount of code compared to using a database, which will automate all these jobs and more. If you are limited to a server that does not give you Database access, then I would suggest the following Google searches: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=flat+file+php http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=flat+file+database+php Here you will find resources to get you on your way. However, if you have the chance to implement this using databases, then I would say that the time spent learning the basic principles of database manipulation will be well spent and will save you from the headaches of supporting a flat-file system. Here's a good tutorial link: http://www.blazonry.com/scripting/linksdb/index.php though you'll find hundreds of others here... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=php+database+tutori al Good luck!! .steve ---------------------------------- Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk] > Sent: den 23 maj 2002 10:52 > To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org > Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file > > > Some while back I asked to write form information into a file > and was provided > with this > > $string = implode("\t",$_POST); > $fp = fopen("file.txt","w"); > fwrite($fp,$product); > fclose($fp); > > it seems this can sit anywhere in the form. It does write to > a file called > file.txt > > However, this aint a solution. I need for each different > user to be able to > write to a different file and inparticular to be able to > identify with that file > later specifically in assocaition with the user who submitted > the info :) does > that make sense? > From lists at prydain.com Thu May 23 04:35:01 2002 From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill) Date: Thu May 23 04:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I need for each different user to be able to write to a different > file and inparticular to be able to identify with that file later > specifically in assocaition with the user who submitted the info Ok, so you would use a naming convention like fileprefix_userid.txt, and assign the name of the file you're writing to as a variable, so that you can plug in the userid from the session. For example, assuming that your session has already set a variable called $userid, you would tweak your earlier code to the following: $filename = "userinfo_" . $userid . ".txt"; $data = "whatever"; $fp = fopen($filename,"w"); fwrite($fp,$data); fclose($fp); I'm doing the same thing for some automatic log files right now, so that the system writes a new file for each day, rather than overloading a single log file (adds up fast when you're getting 1500-2500 entries a day). So instead of having a single log file that took ages to open, like it used to, I now have a collection of small files all using the naming convention of success_YYYY-MM-DD.txt. Voila! Of course, you are still going to have to make sure that the files you're writing to are not accessible from the web server, or that they don't contain any privileged information, since this method would otherwise make it really easy to get to other people's info just by having their userid. Or, as Steve suggest, go the database route. --ray From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk Thu May 23 04:39:01 2002 From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford) Date: Thu May 23 04:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I'm building a CMS for a client at the moment, and I thought I'd run some of the central principals past the list to see if people thought I was going very wrong in areas, or if I'm going in the right direction. The system allows for users to have multiple roles, with each role having a different set of abilities. I have an author role, who is able to create new articles and edit their existing ones. Editors, who can edit and delete any existing article, and can approve articles for release. They can also add/edit/delete categories, as well as triggering rebuilds of altered/new articles. The third role is admins, who have the ability to add/edit/delete users/authors/editors. As I said users can have multiple roles, so a author/editor can create an article, approve it and publish it to the site. The actual articles are stored in a M$ SQL Server database. I've got a table looking like this: tblArticles articleID int articleCategoryID int articleAuthorID int articleDate datetime articleAuthorisedBy int articleAltered bit articleDeleted bit articleHeadline varchar articleStrapline varchar articleShort varchar articleFull text When a article is created it isn't authorised by anyone, so it won't appear on the site. Once it's authorised the altered field will be set to true, so that when the site is next rebuilt the article will be published. The actual article text I'm storing as XML in the articleFull field. At publication I'm combining it with the headline field and information from the author table and then transforming it using XSL before writing it to disk as an HTML file (I figure this will allow me to easily extend the system to allow it to publish to a number of channels). I'm not handling multimedia assets at the moment. My intention is to simply store information about each asset in the database (dimensions, alt tags for images etc) and then allow users to embed XML tags in article to place the assets, allowing them to change some properties of them (ie changing alt tags, default captions, that sort of thing). Does this all seem fairly sensible to people? Norman From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk Thu May 23 04:39:09 2002 From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes) Date: Thu May 23 04:39:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file In-Reply-To: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D5213B103@SBS> Message-ID: Steve thank you for that, all very useful. i totally understand what you have just said about the databse I use both and I already have the flat (csv) file schema and the php code working with it hence the solution this way and not to convert to a database... Andrew -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cook Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:27 To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' Subject: RE: [thelist] php writing to a file What you are describing screams for a database solution. If you are not tied down to using a file-based system, then start looking at a simple database table to handle the information. Any basic introduction to working with databases in PHP should give you all the ammunition to code this. The reason I recommend a database is that it is built from the ground up to handle this sort of information. Using text files in this way (often referred to as using a "flat file database") is very possible, but is an absolute pain in the rear to maintain. I have built similar systems in the past and each and every time the support of the system was monstrous. In addition, code to add information, retrieve information and change information would require a huge amount of code compared to using a database, which will automate all these jobs and more. If you are limited to a server that does not give you Database access, then I would suggest the following Google searches: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=flat+file+php http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=flat+file+database+php Here you will find resources to get you on your way. However, if you have the chance to implement this using databases, then I would say that the time spent learning the basic principles of database manipulation will be well spent and will save you from the headaches of supporting a flat-file system. Here's a good tutorial link: http://www.blazonry.com/scripting/linksdb/index.php though you'll find hundreds of others here... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=php+database+tutori al Good luck!! .steve ---------------------------------- Cookstour - http://cookstour.org ---------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk] > Sent: den 23 maj 2002 10:52 > To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org > Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file > > > Some while back I asked to write form information into a file > and was provided > with this > > $string = implode("\t",$_POST); > $fp = fopen("file.txt","w"); > fwrite($fp,$product); > fclose($fp); > > it seems this can sit anywhere in the form. It does write to > a file called > file.txt > > However, this aint a solution. I need for each different > user to be able to > write to a different file and inparticular to be able to > identify with that file > later specifically in assocaition with the user who submitted > the info :) does > that make sense? > -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk Thu May 23 04:46:01 2002 From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes) Date: Thu May 23 04:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: do you think it would be easy to convert to code and csv files to a database solution? I reckon it means starting it all again? this is a shopping solution which is very small but very friendly. Andrew --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02 From ashok at magicalkenya.com Thu May 23 05:08:01 2002 From: ashok at magicalkenya.com (ashok at magicalkenya.com) Date: Thu May 23 05:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Quality Control, etc. of MS products Message-ID: In the Nt4 days i would tend to agree with accusations against MS about poor/lack of quality control -- but off late (more precisely since win2k came out) things have improved noticeably. take a look at QC at least on the security / vuln front : http://online.securityfocus.com/sfonline/vulns/stats.shtml you will see a very distinct improvement in top vulnerable packages from the year 2000 to 2001 . probably one contest where microsoft was happy in not finishing in the top 3 ! though vuln. stats are not ideal measure for quality IMO it is still a very valid measure.... that said, microsoft does provide much much better quality in terms of service and support (especially for presales and demos ) in this part of the world (east africa) as against companies like IBM and SUN (which provide next to nothing in terms of presales support...) . A major part of our development (for historical and market reasons) has been on IBM products - but we are shifting (or would like to shift :) for quality and support reasons to microsoft products... From webmaster at davidjaymz.com Thu May 23 05:30:03 2002 From: webmaster at davidjaymz.com (Webmaster) Date: Thu May 23 05:30:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <034901c201c3$0eedc830$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: There are a couple of fixes for CSS positioning in IE and Opera... /* Here is the ugly brilliant hack that protects IE5/Win from its own stupidity. Thanks to Tantek Celik for the hack and to Eric Costello for publicizing it. IE5/Win incorrectly parses the "\"}"" value, prematurely closing the style declaration. The incorrect IE5/Win value is above, while the correct value is below. See http://glish.com/css/hacks.asp for details. */ voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family:inherit; width:135px; } /* I've heard this called the "be nice to Opera 5" rule. Basically, it feeds correct length values to user agents that exhibit the parsing error exploited above yet get the CSS box model right and understand the CSS2 parent-child selector. ALWAYS include a "be nice to Opera 5" rule every time you use the Tantek Celik hack (above). */ body>#navAlpha {width:135px;} that should fix any problems you're having... DavidJaymz ---------------DavidJaymz.com--------------- -------------------------------------------- ---------Do You Remember Where I Am--------- -------Will You Find Me...Hurry Home-------- --------All The Monsters In My Head--------- -------If You Need Them...Hurry Home-------- -----------John Crooke...Jolene------------- -------------------------------------------- -------http://db.etree.org/davidjaymz------- -------------------------------------------- -----------Music For Music's Sake----------- -------------------------------------------- ----------Do You Need Web Hosting?---------- http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=2975209 -------------------------------------------- Miriam Frost http://www.dynagirl.com Still working out some kinks, and god help those who browse with >5.x browsers. And Netscape. And Opera. Oy. From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk Thu May 23 05:44:01 2002 From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford) Date: Thu May 23 05:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP vs TSQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I'm writing a bit of code which is going to update fields in a table. Bascially a form with checkboxes is submitted, each checked checkbox represents a record which needs to be updated. Now before I would have used ASP to loop through an array generated from the returned value of the checkboxes, with each iteration altering the value of a parameter and executing a command. What I was thinking was that instead of doing this, perhaps I would be better off just passing the array through to a stored procedure and allowing it to loop through it. Resulting in one call to the database, rather then repeated ones. Would this be a good idea? Norman From ashok at magicalkenya.com Thu May 23 05:54:04 2002 From: ashok at magicalkenya.com (ashok at magicalkenya.com) Date: Thu May 23 05:54:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] HTTP POST request in VC++ Message-ID: one way i do know of is by using the wininet library , but that wouldnt be platform portable. try looking at the cygwin library for windows (http://www.cygwin.com) it is a UNIX api emulation library that you can use on windows . i dont really know if it is distributed with wininet equivalent UNIX api's - my guess is it would.. HTH ashok From luminosity at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 06:10:01 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Thu May 23 06:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Currents trends in layout design In-Reply-To: <034901c201c3$0eedc830$79cff3cd@walthers.com> References: <034901c201c3$0eedc830$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: <1028.139.130.216.191.1022152162.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Miriam Frost said: > http://www.dynagirl.com > > Still working out some kinks, and god help those who browse with >5.x > browsers. And Netscape. And Opera. Oy. Nice. :P See sig for my css site. (try visiting with different browsers - same css, but ie / opera see a different layout to ns) Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From luminosity at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 06:33:00 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Thu May 23 06:33:00 2002 Subject: [OT] [thelist] Email vs. E-mail vs. email vs. e-mail In-Reply-To: <009901c2019f$e8764c90$79cff3cd@walthers.com> References: <009901c2019f$e8764c90$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Message-ID: <1025.139.130.216.191.1022153540.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Miriam Frost said: >> I think the hyphen is there merely because it's a joined word, eg >> electonic-mail. > Bingo! Reason number one. We rule. Well, I can't argue with that. ;) Always make sure you use the best function for the job, and native functions over building your own. Thus if you need to convert newlines to line breaks, use nl2br. If nl2br didn't exist, the next best function would be str_replace. ereg_replace should only ever be used if you actually need to use a regular expression. Find yourself writing code more than once? Write a function, to automate the task. You'll save yourself from boredom, and the large lilelihood that in one of those versions of the same stuff you'll make a typo, or some other hard to find mistake. Find yourself inserting -- into a document for an em dash? Don't. Using the proper entity (—) will make the eye flow more easily from one side of the dash to the other. Using proper typography like this can greatly increase the readibility of a document on tired eyes, and make it quicker for someoen to read through and co,prehend it. For more typography help see: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/ When you are producing scripts for a site, make sure you use a consistent coding style. This will make it much easier for you, or anyone else who reads through your code later to understand how the site works. Before you start coding a site, decide on a coding style and make sure you document it. This way if you can't remember how you've decided to handle a certain part of your style, you always have something to check. Documenting it will also help you to remember it better, and will mean that if someone else has to maintain the coe later, it will still maintain consistency. After finding parts of your code that you reuse frequently and turning them into functions, take any of them that could possibly be used by another script (even ones which don't exist yet), and put them into an external code library. Make sure you give your libraries smart names to keep track of them later. Then if you need a custom date function you wrote, you won't need to go searching for the name of it's library, but will know straight away to import the date library. Always keep database and other important password and usernames out of your scripts. This way if the code parses goes down, and your files are sent as plain text, people won't be able to find the passwords and wreak havoc on your site. The best place to keep the file you include the password variables from is in a directory outside the publicly accessible path. (eg, keep it in /home/user/includes/ instead of in /home/user/public_html). Also, if you are using a unix system you can prepend a . to the start of the filename to make it hidden. Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk Thu May 23 06:38:01 2002 From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson) Date: Thu May 23 06:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors Message-ID: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Hi, doing some research on these and was wondering whether anyone had any experience with these ? We're looking for a formbased editor which would allow users to edit the HTML of pages on the site. Ideally they wouldn't be template based as we're looking to slot the HTML produced into our own templates. At the moment the 2 I've found are Fastpage (Perl) and SoEditor (CF custom tag) -- Rob robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk From r937 at interlog.com Thu May 23 06:39:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Thu May 23 06:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP vs TSQL Message-ID: <01c2024e$518a06a0$40e7059a@rudy> > ... perhaps I would be better off just passing the array through > to a stored procedure and allowing it to loop through it. > Resulting in one call to the database, rather then repeated ones. > Would this be a good idea? hi norman yes evidence, while anecdotal, suggests significant savings makes for cleaner code, too rudy From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Thu May 23 06:52:01 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Thu May 23 06:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I find php's DBM database functions are largely an untapped resource which is ideal for small scale database apps like this which clearly do not require something of MySQL scale. I have made such a system for a client before, which made a fresh DBM database everyday (named by date) to take orders and a script which allowed him to login and download the file which was then readily understood by the likes of excel... This suited perfectly as it was simple for me (PHP DBM functions are good!) and he didnt have to learn any new software... >do you think it would be easy to convert to code and csv files to a database >solution? I reckon it means starting it all again? this is a shopping solution >which is very small but very friendly. > From lists at pinetree.net Thu May 23 07:10:01 2002 From: lists at pinetree.net (Oren Levin) Date: Thu May 23 07:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP vs TSQL In-Reply-To: <01c2024e$518a06a0$40e7059a@rudy> Message-ID: Really? I would think that the ASP method would result in X number of update statements against the database. The TSQL method would result in a call to the stored procedure, the procedure looping through the data and then X number of update statements. If you have a large number of updates then there may be an economy of scale in having the database do the looping if it could process the array faster/better/more efficiently than the ASP code. If you just have a couple of updates then the additional call to the procedure and the procedure's work may not be beneficial at all. The only way to know for sure is to code both and benchmark. Oren ----- Oren Levin, Web Developer olevin at audible.com, 973.837.2811 Get free digital audio - www.audible.com/spreadthewords -----Original Message----- > ... perhaps I would be better off just passing the array through > to a stored procedure and allowing it to loop through it. > Resulting in one call to the database, rather then repeated ones. > Would this be a good idea? hi norman yes evidence, while anecdotal, suggests significant savings makes for cleaner code, too rudy From r937 at interlog.com Thu May 23 07:11:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Thu May 23 07:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] [SQL] deleting records from associated tables Message-ID: <01c20252$c9ac95e0$40e7059a@rudy> > the central table is tblTracking, with the > records to be deleted in tblTrackingDeletions. hi sean that's good, and shows the designer was thinking > Other tables are joined with tblTracking by foreign key. so, um, do you have relational integrity in your database? you didn't say which database you're running > Since I want existing records to be deleted with > if there aren't coorespoding records in all of the > associated tables (tblWorkOrder, tblInvoice, tblData), > I want to use OUTER JOINs, right? this sounds like a job for ON DELETE RESTRICT RI to the Rescue!! http://www.evolt.org/article/RI/18/13276/index.html if you cannot declare RI, you'll probably have to do something like this -- delete from tblTracking where TrackingKey in (select TrackingKey from tblTrackingDeletions) and WorkOrderNum NOT in (select WorkOrderNum from tblWorkOrder) and InvoiceNum NOT in (select InvoiceNum from tblInvoice) and DataKey NOT in (select DataKey from tblData) rudy From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Thu May 23 07:11:08 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Thu May 23 07:11:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using CSS or table kludges -- there actually ARE criteria, AND formal decision-making process! Message-ID: Contributing my $.02: > Well in my opinion, you should not be using table for anything other than a > small matrix of information. > Tables where never intended to be used for laying out the entire page. I say > do the decent thing - separate your > content from layout and use CSS and XHTML 1.0. Don't worry about lowly NE > 4.x, simply so a sniffer script and > remove the css from the pages that get passed to them . > For more details see :- http://www.alistapart.com > ; - loads of great articles about css / xhtml / > validation / fly fishing... The Web is a document; as a documentation specialist (the level above tech writers, who don't normally do this), this is how I would decide what to use: In determining how to present information (as in documentation), consider AUDIENCE and PURPOSE, also corporate culture. Your audience always has certain tools and abilities (for example, printers and reading) and lacks others (perhaps browsers on every desktop and programming). Thus, you would not use an online documentation system for an audience without access to the tool or skill they'd need -- unless corporate culture was such that support for those tools and skills would be forthcoming from top-level management, which would ensure everyone gets the resources and training necessary. Now, in your case, does your audience have the newer browsers, competent to render HTML decently if it relies on CSS? Or is your audience largely stuck with old browsers? Your PURPOSE also matters -- if you want to offer blocks of text for users to read, you NEED those large margins and simple layout tools, for an audience with old browsers (the table kludge). If it's a table of parts listings and prices, who cares? It doesn't have to look beautiful (or even be particularly legible) -- just lay it out so it's easily navigable. Remember, as you use this, that (in this "real world") government agencies, private (charitable) non-profit institutions, and most educational institutions below college level (because colleges mostly require students to bring their own laptops these days!) have OLD PC's and OLD browsers, and usually in insufficient numbers at that. Btw, documenters can also tell you how to organize information, and the criteria for that decision. But no one asks! Cheers -- Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com P.S. For Burhan Khalid... I don't know how young the person is that you were referring to, but I think that it is not fair of you to bring up age as a prerequisite ... NOT prerequisite, just in my experience, younger folks, while in some ways, very able technically, don't have the expectations I had while I developed (or even just tested, documented/reported bugs to programmers) software. They seem to expect lots of things to fail, and just leave them! It surprises me that you say that there were "no official Quality Control departments". Since it would make more to sense to have stringent quality control in those days. Considering that companies (or universities) that had computer resources (be it mainframe or workstations), usually charged by CPU time. So, unless you had lots of money to burn, you made sure that the job you were about to submit was devoid of errors. Most jobs, if my memory serves me correctly, were sumitted on punch cards, and it was a pain to go back and have to recode everything once you found an error. Accurate memory: I was working for IBM at summer job, in "Advanced Optics Research Dept" in Kingston Lab (then), and we used punched cards, and errors were a pain. And there was certainly no formal QC area -- but one of my first jobs was to go through code already existing and working and locate "fossils," and report them to the head of the area. He (brilliant man, forgotten his name now) would quickly look, say "yes, remove it" or "ah, but you missed this call to this subroutine which uses it in some mysterious way..." Our code worked, because we took testing seriously; formal QC not needed. > This is not fair competition; this is bald-faced app-war-by-having-more-capital-to-pay-lawyers. > Don't know the specifics here, but if what you say is right (and not media hype), then I totally agree. I got this straight from the head of the NY XyWrite Users' Group, when I asked privately why the newest (little adopted!) release didn't include the auto-replace "spelling" feature. So far as I know, no media ever mentioned it, let alone hyped it. Fortunately, when XyWrite (essentially run by very bright programmer types) was bought by another company (The Tech. Grp.) with more business sophistication, they laughed at the lawyer argument and restored the feature, so users went back to upgrading their software. After all, if I deleted a file, I should have been able to restore it from backup. I agree absolutely -- I should have had a backup. But I couldn't. See, the file was huge, and I was running a company on a shoestring, so our main computer was a laptop and its hard drive was only a gig. In fact, my reason for trying to start a new mail folder in the first place was so that I could offload the huge file somehow, and process all its contents individually. I only realized very late in the game that each message (at that time, in Outlook Express) was only findable by that one program, that messages had been turned into non-ASCII and mashed into the other messages in a proprietary fashion, and I would have to pull them up, copy them, and convert them one by one. Ugh. I should have tested earlier, but Outlook had tools to search and find a message based on text, so I had never had reason before to pull out one using another program. It seemed good to have all the message in one file so I could search more quickly... One of the strange things that happened with Microsoft was the computing became a household name. I don't know how accurate my dates are, but before Windows first came out, I think there was the Apple I (or was it IIe). Of course, DOS was around, and computers were very expensive. You're close -- many of us were using TRS-80 Model I (in small businesses and at home as well -- although the Epson dot-matrix printer was $1000 then, so pretty much only companies had them. Radio Shack/Tandy made some dumb decisions that kept them from becoming a household name. Such as refusing to sell the extremely useful software (VisiCalc, LazyWriter) you could therefore only get from 3rd party vendors! I think actually the Apple debuted after the PC, but I could be mistaken. Btw, MSft didn't buy the OS from IBM; they got a contract with IBM to supply one, and turned right around and bought it outright from the CP/M author (no licensing; he also was a programmer with little business sense). A few modifications, and wow -- instant millions. In this culture, that makes BG look brilliant, but in IMO, it makes him look like a greedy man without integrity. Cheers... Cheers From jpellet at attbi.com Thu May 23 07:19:00 2002 From: jpellet at attbi.com (Jeanne Pelletier) Date: Thu May 23 07:19:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior References: <000a01c20214$b0731a10$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> Message-ID: <001f01c20254$04277b80$db693d18@ne.client2.attbi.com> Here's what I use to accomplish that: hope it helps Jeanne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Kuplens-Ewart" To: Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:45 AM Subject: RE: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior > This might be for telephone numbers, I'm guessing. > > Only way I can see that being done, is using javascript, although I'm > not sure how... I guess you'd count the number of char's in a field and > then move focus to the next field if there are three, or something > similar. I'm sure someone out there must have some code... Or take a > look at the page source... If they're linking to a .js... Take a look at > that. :) > > I think bell canada does that for its DSL availability check, etc. > > -m > > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Burhan Khalid > Sent: May 23, 2002 12:35 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Interesting Form Behavior > > > I've been noticing that one some sites, form fields automatically jump > > > to the next one when filled. Does anyone know if this is Microsoft > > centric? > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From mel at kingsley.co.za Thu May 23 07:25:00 2002 From: mel at kingsley.co.za (Melody Kerchhoff) Date: Thu May 23 07:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Dotted line as a shape border in Fireworks? Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I have downloaded an extension and am now creating dotted lines like a demon :) I can't imagine why Fireworks does not have this feature built in. I thought I was going nuts when I was trying to find it. Thank you also for introducing me to the FW Zone .. www.fwzone.net .. it is a goldmine of information for any Fireworks user. I sound like I am accepting an academy award with all these thank yous :) but I while I am at it, I must just say that this is THE most amazing list. It has never let me done when I've needed information. Melody -- From mike.king at redroom.co.uk Thu May 23 07:29:01 2002 From: mike.king at redroom.co.uk (Mike King) Date: Thu May 23 07:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020523132607.00b28438@pop.redroom.co.uk> eWebEditPro is a cracking editor. http://ektron.com/wysiwyg-editors.cfm It can chuck out XHTML if you want, the XML one looks pretty cool as well. mk At 12:37 23/05/2002 +0100, Rob Wilson wrote: >Hi, > >doing some research on these and was wondering whether anyone had any >experience with these ? From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu May 23 07:32:00 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu May 23 07:32:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c20255$e00c66a0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] The system allows for users to have multiple roles, with each role having a different set of abilities. I have an author role, who is able to create new articles and edit their existing ones. Editors, who can edit and delete any existing article, and can approve articles for release. They can also add/edit/delete categories, as well as triggering rebuilds of altered/new articles. The third role is admins, who have the ability to add/edit/delete users/authors/editors. As I said users can have multiple roles, so a author/editor can create an article, approve it and publish it to the site. ... When a article is created it isn't authorised by anyone, so it won't appear on the site. Once it's authorised the altered field will be set to true, so that when the site is next rebuilt the article will be published. ... I'm not handling multimedia assets at the moment. My intention is to simply store information about each asset in the database (dimensions, alt tags for images etc) and then allow users to embed XML tags in article to place the assets, allowing them to change some properties of them (ie changing alt tags, default captions, that sort of thing). [/snip] Depending on the knowledge level of your 'user' this does seem sensible. And given that some sort of editing takes place before the article is released, any mistakes in the XML tags properties should be caught and fixed. Even for savvy users make sure that some sort of help system or online manual is included in case a user forgets 'just exactly how that thing is done'. Jay From michael at tapinternet.com Thu May 23 07:38:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Thu May 23 07:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff References: <20020523014826.6175.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CECE3DE.3020806@tapinternet.com> Peter Thoenen wrote: >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> >> >>>From: Peter Thoenen >>> >>>We are not here to discuss bugs [...] >>> >>> >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> >>oh? surely these bugs hamper the ability to develop >>proper web-based >>applications, no? >> >> >> > > >Not at all. Visual rendering bugs do NOT break web >applications. Your application should work in lynx. >May not be visually pleasing but works. Visual don't >aren't a show stopper. See my thoughts on http1.0 > > As more and more people start coding CSS, XML and Javascript to enhance both the development experience (faster) and the end user experience (more interaction without large round trips to the server) the browsers are starting to *need* a stronger application-type interface. The fact that there are some browsers that *can* do this and some that can't will mean that more people will continue to use the one(s) which can give a better end user experience for web applications. > > >As a developer I don't. I have access to the code, I >expect it to work. If it doesn't, I will run it >through my handy PHP IDE and track everything. If you >soley rely on a browser view source to track bugs for >your web applications, I am sorry. When the browser >starts showing SSI or server side languages (which you >are going to need for an web application)..just maybe >I might decide a browser belong on my web application >tool list. Until then, I will continue to use it for >what it was meant for, display web pages (and to >visually troubleshoot my web designs..!applications) > > So if something doesn't look right to a client you tell them - "hey, just run it via my Zend IDE and you'll see all my variables are correct!". Good answer. Me? I prefer to test things in the browser(s) which the majority of the end users will use. If that means coding around 'visual oddities' or known browser bugs to ensure a good experience for them, so be it. Call me crazy I guess, but not everyone has a PHP IDE to run stuff through. (I figured most hardcore people that take your stance re:Mozilla use Notepad anyway, but that's a different story) :) MK From michael at tapinternet.com Thu May 23 07:44:00 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Thu May 23 07:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Michael References: <20020523021935.12940.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CECE556.1040805@tapinternet.com> Peter Thoenen wrote: >I submit :) ... 99% of my web application development >is in database apps. Not a huge client side XML guy. > (Other than what I need to know to create client >frontends). I will admit though that I am glad you >took the time to put me in my place :) instead of >blindy saying "because thats just the way it is" . >Hats off to you for that. Only reason I went >defensive was in my experience, I haven't ever seen >ANY browser affecting how i develop my applications >(other than visual niceties) and felt Mozilla was >unduley (?sp) being slandering for no apparent reason, >not really a stab at you personally. > > > I don't think I took it personally. :) One thing that annoys me a lot with Mozilla too is the lack of a web-based control to do HTML editing. The IE DHTML component for HTML editing, while not perfect, is pretty much a staple for most web-based CMS today, and yet no one in the Mozilla community seems to have even heard of it. This is based on numerous IRC exchanges with various Mozilla contributors. The Java-applet versions aren't really any better, because they convert any shred of HTML into a full blown document. (HEAD/BODY tags, etc) when all we want is something to interactively render the HTML snippets we pass to it. This is to allow users to edit the middle of a page which will go into a template we provide. We spent the better part of 3 weeks wrestling with Mozilla to get it to approximate this functionality. While it *mostly* works now, it sucks big time in comparison (interface-wise) and requires many low-level system file changes to even allow it to operate (somethinig about security rights on parts of the mozilla system). Conversations with Mozilla people indicate it'll probably stay that way, making it utterly useless for 99% of end users who might otherwise be able to use it. No one is going to close the browser, hand-edit some weird file (in a different place on every installation) and restart just to do something they can do in IE in 2 seconds with no installs. Mozilla developers are *really* missing the boat in terms of what type of experience they could provide to the community. Instead of innovating, they are mired in debates about how to implement standards (if you have to argue about how to implement something, it's not a standard). Anyway, cheers back. :0 MK From roselli at earthlink.net Thu May 23 08:21:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu May 23 08:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: <3CECE3DE.3020806@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <200205231320.g4NDKVPS007469@leo.evolt.org> > From: Michael Kimsal [...] > As more and more people start coding CSS, XML and Javascript to > enhance both the development experience (faster) and the end > user experience (more interaction without large round trips to the > server) the browsers are starting to *need* a stronger > application-type interface. The fact that there are some browsers that > *can* do this and some that can't will mean that more people will > continue to use the one(s) which can give a better end user experience > for web applications. [...] i would like to propose that because some browsers can do this does *not* mean more people will use them (because they give a better experience for end-user web apps)... instead, it means more developers will code for these browsers... whether or not that cascades down to cause more users to use those browsers is a whole 'nother story, and is related to a lot more than whether or not the developer prefers it as a deployment platform... other browsers have come and gone that were supposedly better platforms for web apps (HotJava anyone?)... ok, back to lurking on this topic... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From roselli at earthlink.net Thu May 23 08:21:08 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu May 23 08:21:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: <3CECE3DE.3020806@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <200205231320.g4NDKxPS007487@leo.evolt.org> > From: Michael Kimsal [...] > As more and more people start coding CSS, XML and Javascript to > enhance both the development experience (faster) and the end > user experience (more interaction without large round trips to the > server) the browsers are starting to *need* a stronger > application-type interface. The fact that there are some browsers that > *can* do this and some that can't will mean that more people will > continue to use the one(s) which can give a better end user experience > for web applications. [...] i would like to propose that because some browsers can do this does *not* mean more people will use them (because they give a better experience for end-user web apps)... instead, it means more developers will code for these browsers... whether or not that cascades down to cause more users to use those browsers is a whole 'nother story, and is related to a lot more than whether or not the developer prefers it as a deployment platform... other browsers have come and gone that were supposedly better platforms for web apps (HotJava anyone?)... ok, back to lurking on this topic... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From roselli at earthlink.net Thu May 23 08:22:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu May 23 08:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff In-Reply-To: <3CECE3DE.3020806@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <200205231321.g4NDLWPS007515@leo.evolt.org> > From: Michael Kimsal [...] > As more and more people start coding CSS, XML and Javascript to > enhance both the development experience (faster) and the end > user experience (more interaction without large round trips to the > server) the browsers are starting to *need* a stronger > application-type interface. The fact that there are some browsers that > *can* do this and some that can't will mean that more people will > continue to use the one(s) which can give a better end user experience > for web applications. [...] i would like to propose that because some browsers can do this does *not* mean more people will use them (because they give a better experience for end-user web apps)... instead, it means more developers will code for these browsers... whether or not that cascades down to cause more users to use those browsers is a whole 'nother story, and is related to a lot more than whether or not the developer prefers it as a deployment platform... other browsers have come and gone that were supposedly better platforms for web apps (HotJava anyone?)... ok, back to lurking on this topic... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From nicole at parrot.ca Thu May 23 08:23:00 2002 From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole P) Date: Thu May 23 08:23:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS References: Message-ID: <017501c2025d$244968c0$b700a8c0@videotron.ca> Off the top of my head, and from this project I've been wanting to do for years, but never got the time.. 1. It's possible an article may belong to more than one category. You want your visitors to find the articles as quickly as possible, so articles must have as much visibility as possible. 2. Your front page should reflect the latest articles to be approved for a specific period of time. Visitors can see in one glance if there's something new they want to read. 3. Some articles may be more important than others and should be listed first, even though they're not the latest ones to be approved. 4. Visitors may want to access all articles written by a specific author, so plan for a dynamic list of articles per author. 5. Following that, an article may have more than one author. 6. Plan on keeping track of how many times an article's requested. Authors love that :) 7. Keep track of the work editors do. Some editors will work more than others, some will not work at all and need to be replaced. 8. Plan for a mail notice each time an article is submitted (editors need to know when there's work for them), and plan for statistics on how long articles are waiting for approval. Also plan for some notification system if an article's been waiting for too long for approval. Things tend to fall between the cracks something, and you need a tracking system to help avoid that. 9. Authors will need a way to query about the status of an article. Reasons why it's not approved yet, changes made to it, etc... I have a bunch of stuff also to handle multimedia submission, but I'll keep those till you're ready to tackle that area of the CMS. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Beresford" > I'm building a CMS for a client at the moment, and I thought I'd run some of > the central principals past the list to see if people thought I was going > very wrong in areas, or if I'm going in the right direction. From michael at tapinternet.com Thu May 23 08:39:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Thu May 23 08:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff References: <200205231321.g4NDLWPS007515@leo.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CECF0BB.6050100@tapinternet.com> aardvark wrote: >>From: Michael Kimsal >> >[...] > >>As more and more people start coding CSS, XML and Javascript to >>enhance both the development experience (faster) and the end >>user experience (more interaction without large round trips to the >>server) the browsers are starting to *need* a stronger >>application-type interface. The fact that there are some browsers that >>*can* do this and some that can't will mean that more people will >>continue to use the one(s) which can give a better end user experience >>for web applications. >> >[...] > >i would like to propose that because some browsers can do this >does *not* mean more people will use them (because they give a >better experience for end-user web apps)... > >instead, it means more developers will code for these browsers... > Quite correct. I don't mean to imply that there's a one-to-one causal relationship there, but the fact that certain browsers can't provide good end user experiences is ammo against them. Once that ammo is gone, there's fewer arguments against it. There are already some reasons in favor of alternative browsers (security being the first to mind) but people are willing to live with poor security in exchange for a good user experience (they are probably mutually exclusive to many people, but not to everyone). When the user experience and developer experiences improve for Mozilla, those issues, along with increased security, will ideally begin to sway more people towards it. One "feature" alone does not a revolution make, and IE was hardly a sweeping success in its first incarnations. There was a steady stream of improvements (I won't get into bundling) which MS has made to gain mindshare among users and developers, and NS/Mozilla was essentially sitting out the past 3-4 years. Hopefully they'll be able to make a comeback, though I'm not holding my breath for the short term. :) From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Thu May 23 08:47:01 2002 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Thu May 23 08:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Character length in form fields In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020523132607.00b28438@pop.redroom.co.uk> Message-ID: Just a quick question, Ive forgotten how to define the amount of characters allowed in a form field. Anyone help? cheers Paul From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk Thu May 23 08:49:00 2002 From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford) Date: Thu May 23 08:49:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CMS In-Reply-To: <017501c2025d$244968c0$b700a8c0@videotron.ca> Message-ID: Hi Nicole and Jay Thanks for that feedback. Most of the stuff in there I have/am going to have implemented in the system. I've shied away from allowing multiple authors for an article and multiple categories for an article. Thinking about it, although the present client doesn't require it, it would make the whole system a lot more flexible, and doesn't entail a lot more work. I like the idea of allowing visitors to see what articles are waiting to come live. Maybe having notification of articles as they do go live. The XML markup is really very primitive at the moment (as is the whole system really). At the moment all I've got is text being split into tags, and hyperlinks (well any begining with http/https/ftp) being converted to xxxx tags. I think that if the present client makes more use of the system, or if we have more clients using it, then I'll start to add help files etc. I have to admit that documentation really really isn't a strong point for me. I'd be very interested to hear your views about handling multimedia content Nicole. Norman From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk Thu May 23 08:51:01 2002 From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford) Date: Thu May 23 08:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Character length in form fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Paul maxlength="xxxx" in a text type field, AFAIK you can't do it natively for a textarea HTH Norman From michael at tapinternet.com Thu May 23 08:57:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael KImsal) Date: Thu May 23 08:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] - Jeff References: <20020523082809.51877.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CECF509.8030505@tapinternet.com> Peter Thoenen wrote: > >>michael already mentioned a *very* serious issue >>with a web application. if >>a visitor is printing a page that shows a purchase >>receipt based on an >>invoice number posted from a form on the previous >>page, printing the page >>will result in no invoice number being posted, no >>purchase receipt being >>displayed, and nothing even similar being printed. >> >>that's not just a visual problem. that's an >>application problem. >> >>the upside is there are ways around that in most >>cases, but the fact remains >>that it's a huge flaw. >> > >This is an apples and oranges argument. I don't >*personally* see this as an issue as I dynamically >create .pdf files on the fly for my invoices for all >customer purchases. I am not saying this is *correct* >as it does have some isseus (lynx for one, requiring >Adobe Acrobat Reader for another)... BUT I WILL ADMIT >I can see where you are coming from. It would be nice >if we didnt' have to work around this..still not a >show stopper though. Every situation is different and >each programs unto his own. I could see this as an >issue. Now I am not an IE guy (or lynx for that >matter..i am a big moz guy..that is first and foremost >for me in ALL my testing) ... does (I am curious) IE >or lynx display the proper code for a page the POST's >to itself? If not, this is moot as we originally >started about Mozilla bugs. If so, while I see BIGGER >blocker bugs than this (for example..the >document.lastmodifed() javascript bug)... I can see >where ppl are coming from > This is not to beat a dead horse :) but yes IE does display the proper data. What it does is display the actual code used to render what's on the page at the moment you hit 'view source'. NS always would re'GET' the URL for just about anything - I mean even resizing the window would cause early NS browsers to re'GET' the URL in the window. "View source" and "print" still trigger that, even if the page is the result of a POST. This can easily cause people trying to print an order page to either get wrong info or perhaps have an order submitted twice. Discussions on the Mozilla bug list show that it's even hard to get people to admit it's a problem. There's loads of talk about storing too much history information, etc., but no real work at addressing the issue. Hell, if IE *and* Opera can do it (and Opera is damn fast too) why is it such a struggle to get Mozilla/NS to do the *right* thing (perhaps not 'correct' according to some 1995 spec sheet, but painfully obviously 'right')? >> >> >>i'm going to come back and say it depends on your >>audience. it also depends >>on your budget. the client may not have paid for >>that level of >>interoperability. >> >>see my comments about http1.1. >> > >I disagree on this. Regardless of my budget..I >naturally code vendor neutral. Sure certain items I >(you) can't make perfect in all browsers (for example >I have given up on support NS4.x visually unless >client contract REQUIRES ... I do IE6/Moz1.0/Lynx) due >to client restraints... but I can sure as hell make it >workable in all (most) browsers. Main reason I >support Lynx is I have a job requirement to support >(as in usable) audio browsers for visually disabled >ppl and i personally believe ppl should quit >discriminating against visually disabled ppl. > If you are *completely* vendor neutral then you are coding to 100% spec, and every one of your visitors is getting a suboptimal experience. The fact that it's suboptimal across the board may not make it seem as such, but its suboptimal compared to what it *could* be. This comes back to money/budget. If the client required the *best* experience available for each browser you no doubt would do it if they paid, but generally people are satisfied with 'good enough'. Doesn't mean it's the best it can be though. > >It is unreasonable when you are doing web application >development. > No it's not at all. > Most of the code is server side and I >don't explect it to show me my server side only source >in the client. > Of course it would only show client stuff. If you can't reliably determine if it's closing a table cell properly, for example, because you can't view the source, it adds *more* time to your project, either meaning less money in your pocket, more money out of the client's pocket, or fewer features implemented overall. >As for the source on a new >request..right or wrong..i don't ever post a form to >itself..i just post it to another page...dont' see a >reason not to (lets not get into a security argument >on this one...each his own and both ways are equally >unsecure) > I specifically mentioned posting to itself - it happens with really any POST operation - as I mentioned before "view source" triggers another GET on the URL you're at, and doesn't rePOST the data so you won't get the same data back reliably. I'm sorry you find yourself creating a new serverside file to POST to for *every single form* on your site. That must get quite laborious. Having a single or small number of processing files which handle the bulk of your form processing can definitely cut down on development time. Whether it's the fusebox method of case/switch or some other methodology, it really can help. Cheers. MK From paul.backhouse at 2cs.com Thu May 23 09:01:01 2002 From: paul.backhouse at 2cs.com (Paul Backhouse) Date: Thu May 23 09:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Character length in form fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: nice one norman -----Original Message----- Hi Paul maxlength="xxxx" in a text type field, AFAIK you can't do it natively for a textarea HTH Norman From gswanson at daystarinc.com Thu May 23 09:11:00 2002 From: gswanson at daystarinc.com (Gary Swanson) Date: Thu May 23 09:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: <20020523135906.DD9C7BFFF@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: A good friend has developed an online editor I think worthy of a look. www.sitemation.com GL >Hi, > >doing some research on these and was wondering whether anyone had any >experience with these ? > >We're looking for a formbased editor which would allow users to edit the >HTML of pages on the site. Ideally they wouldn't be template based as we're >looking to slot the HTML produced into our own templates. > >At the moment the 2 I've found are Fastpage (Perl) and SoEditor (CF custom >tag) > >-- >Rob >robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk From Ron.Luther at hp.com Thu May 23 09:12:01 2002 From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Thu May 23 09:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] BRIO Job Opportunity in FLA (and tip) Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4B9CE@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Gang, I got another cold call this week with a job opportunity from someone cruising my web site. (On-line resumes are a wonderful thing! I've gotten about six of these cold calls in the last six months.) Anyway, I have to take a flyer on this one, so I thought I'd pass it on: The Latin America division of AOL is looking for a BRIO wizard to develop a series of financial reports for their intranet. The job is in Miami, Florida. Sorry - I don't have any contact details - I was sick at home on Tuesday when I got the call. HTH someone, RonL. It's pretty easy to script the opening of one Brio document from another: Documents.Open("Document_Two.bqy","Document_Two"); Documents["Current_Document.bqy"].Close(); This is a very nice feature since it allows you to construct "modular" applications, adding and testing new features without munging up the existing report. You could, for example, lump a bunch of forecast analysis reports together and make them accessible from a single menu. The problem is [at least in the 'Designer' program - I haven't tried this on the server] that if you open a document through scripting, the "OnStartUp" and "On Activate" events in the opened document fail to fire! That means you can't run any queries 'OnStartUp', you can't populate any user drop-down boxes based on dynamic results, heck - you can't even set a default selected radio button! That's a PITA and, I think, a design flaw in Brio-Enterprise 6.5. Here's one way to get around it: Use a "splash" screen. Add a new EIS section {that's 'Brio-speak' for a report screen that lets you use their version of JavaScript and is where you have to place your radio buttons and checkboxes and other user controls} to the document you are opening and add a "run the report" command button. It does put one more click between the users and the data, but it does get your application running again. From mark at markgroen.com Thu May 23 09:34:00 2002 From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen) Date: Thu May 23 09:34:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: References: <20020523135906.DD9C7BFFF@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CEC9A9D.12079.4D8C803@localhost> > A good friend has developed an online editor I think worthy of a look. > > www.sitemation.com > Just a look though, couldn't find the price anywhere on the site so can't pass this on to my clients, sorry. From sam at sam-i-am.com Thu May 23 09:35:01 2002 From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam) Date: Thu May 23 09:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] win32 perl, maxlength for @argv? Message-ID: <3CED0067.DA0AA680@sam-i-am.com> does anyone know if there's a maximum number of arguments you can pass to a script? I've compiled a simple .pl to an .exe and have a shortcut in my sendto folder, so I can select a bunch of files, and right-click sendto to have them processed in some way by my script. It works great with up to 34 files selected. But 35 breaks - i get a "access to the specified device, path or file is denied" error. not sure if this is a limitation of perl2exe, perl itself, or something win2k-ish. TIA Sam From and at doxdesk.com Thu May 23 09:38:01 2002 From: and at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) Date: Thu May 23 09:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ANSI Encoding In-Reply-To: ; from jjk3@msstate.edu on Wed, May 22, 2002 at 04:01:23PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020523135454.A25471@doxdesk.com> Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > What's the encoding="" string for ANSI? us-ascii -- Andrew Clover mailto:and at doxdesk.com http://and.doxdesk.com/ From and at doxdesk.com Thu May 23 09:38:07 2002 From: and at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) Date: Thu May 23 09:38:07 2002 Subject: [thelist] UTF-8/FormMail/PHP headaches In-Reply-To: ; from peter@johansson.org on Wed, May 22, 2002 at 06:39:23PM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20020523141656.B25471@doxdesk.com> Peter Johansson wrote: > I can understand that the characters are garbled, using different charsets > and all, but how can I make my FormMail-script to cope with both variants > of encoding? You can't. Browsers *should*, according to the form-data RFC, include a Content-Type header with charset in every subpart of the submission (presumably unless only us-ascii characters are used). However, no browser does this. This means there is no way to detect what charset was submitted, and the only thing you can do is use the charset of the document containing the form that was submitted. In modern browsers (even N4 usually) this will work, but you could detect non-UTF-8 content by looking for invalid UTF-8 sequences for older browsers. UTF-8 encodes all extended characters as a character code between 0xC0 and 0xFF followed by a number of characters in the range 0x80 to 0xBF (the number depends on the first character). So a simple check is to see if there are any 0xC0-0xFF characters not followed by 0x80-0xBF, or any 0x80-0xBF characters not preceded by an 0xC0-0xFF. In either case you know you don't have UTF-8 and you can try a different encoding. > the page, but no success. I've also tried the "accept-charset" but I > couldn't get that to work either. accept-charset is the correct attribute, but no browser supports this. Instead they use the charset of the document containing the form, as set by the Content-Type header (either in HTTP or with a tag). -- Andrew Clover mailto:and at doxdesk.com http://and.doxdesk.com/ From morgan at morgankelsey.com Thu May 23 09:57:01 2002 From: morgan at morgankelsey.com (nagrom) Date: Thu May 23 09:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors References: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Message-ID: <003901c20269$ff716b80$0b01a8c0@nagrom> rob, > We're looking for a formbased editor which would allow users to edit the > HTML of pages on the site. Ideally they wouldn't be template based as we're > looking to slot the HTML produced into our own templates. > > At the moment the 2 I've found are Fastpage (Perl) and SoEditor (CF custom > tag) > i've been playing with soeditor a little....i give it a 'so-so' (heh) i sure wish it supported CSS (maybe the new one does) another annoying feature is that all html comes back out capitalized, with quotes around attributes removed. this apparently is a function of the msobject doing the work behind the scenes, but it's still annoying. so, 'so-so'editor works ok if you don't mind crappy html and font tags. heh From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk Thu May 23 10:02:01 2002 From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson) Date: Thu May 23 10:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors References: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> <003901c20269$ff716b80$0b01a8c0@nagrom> Message-ID: <019101c2026a$da8f2b80$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Nagrom, > i sure wish it supported CSS (maybe the new one does) The pro version claims to ... since we're having a play with the free version before we shell out $300 I obviously can't substantiate that ;) > another annoying feature is that all html comes back out capitalized, with > quotes around attributes removed. > this apparently is a function of the msobject doing the work behind the > scenes, but it's still annoying. Fair enough, to be honest this is mainly so a client can do some of their own updating rather than having to mail everything to us. Thanks for your comments and all the suggestions. -- Rob Wilson robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk From dmah at shaw.ca Thu May 23 10:05:00 2002 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu May 23 10:05:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] win32 perl, maxlength for @argv? In-Reply-To: <"from sam"@sam-i-am.com> References: <3CED0067.DA0AA680@sam-i-am.com> Message-ID: <20020523085851.A1618@alice.cg.shawcable.net> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Sam wrote: > does anyone know if there's a maximum number of arguments you can > pass to a script? I'd think that this is a limitation of the shell rather than Perl. > not sure if this is a limitation of perl2exe, perl itself, or > something win2k-ish. Try a simpler script, something like: print join("\n", @ARGV); and see how many arguments it will take until it breaks. Try running it as a plain interpreted file and an executable to see if it makes any difference. HTH, Dean From ashok at magicalkenya.com Thu May 23 10:15:01 2002 From: ashok at magicalkenya.com (ashok at magicalkenya.com) Date: Thu May 23 10:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] win32 perl, maxlength for @argv? Message-ID: you are probably running out of dos environment space [there is a limit to the length of a single command line] You can increase the environment space by looking at the 'properties' of your shortcut , click on the 'Memory ' tab and increase the 'Initial Environment' to something like 4096 (the default is 'Auto') HTH ashok http://www.unganisha.org From rob.smith at thermon.com Thu May 23 10:26:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu May 23 10:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708C8@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Well, after reading all the commentary on Curl, checking out their web site (www.curl.com), and trying some Curl out on my own, its like drinking Diet Dr. Pepper. Its an acquired taste and a hard to consume. Rob burhan, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Burhan Khalid > > Has anyone here experimented with the new CURL > programming language for the web? > > "Curl is a new language for creating web documents with > almost any sort of content, from simple formatted text > to complex interactive applets." > > I read about it in some magazine, can't remember....here > is the website if anyone is interested : > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/toplevel.html ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< actually, that's a link to some research done on curl. the actual link is: http://curl.com/ curl isn't all that new. it's been around for at least a couple of years. there's a couple of threads a while back right here on thelist: http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010423/thread.html#31929 http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010806/thread.html#54719 good luck, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From haagj at ctcgsc.org Thu May 23 10:29:01 2002 From: haagj at ctcgsc.org (Haag, Jason) Date: Thu May 23 10:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla - ] Message-ID: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF2377015917@PEFL-PDC> Michael KImsal wrote: Because IE is still the friendliest in terms of web development day in/day out stuff (view source, view frame/page info, etc) it's what most people will continue to use to test web applications. That *is* the primary testing platform for everyone I know. If there's time left to test under other platforms, great. Until another browser gives as many niceties to developers, other browsers will continue to be second fiddle, if only because of pure economics. I'll make sure something works on the dev platform first, others second. Mozilla in particular seems to be playing catchup/copycat more often than not -good features still, but there are things they could put in that they won't, at least until after MS does, then everyone will copy them yet again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Jason Haag wrote: I agree with Michael here. As such this was the reason of my post, and I'm not PRO-MS or PRO-Mozilla. I'm PRO-Innovation. I'm just as disgusted by Microsofts dominance as most everyone else. I never intended to insinuate that Mozilla wasn't application friendly, but that MS has a lot of dom extension 'niceties' (other than visual ones) that should probably be standards. And I hate saying that 'dom extensions'. Actually, they are dom extension 'wannabes'. Aside from frustration, these niceties are warping the minds of developers. From haagj at ctcgsc.org Thu May 23 10:29:08 2002 From: haagj at ctcgsc.org (Haag, Jason) Date: Thu May 23 10:29:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] Message-ID: <7EDECC506C05D611A20500508BAF2377015918@PEFL-PDC> MK wrote: Mozilla developers are *really* missing the boat in terms of what type of experience they could provide to the community. Instead of innovating, they are mired in debates about how to implement standards (if you have to argue about how to implement something, it's not a standard). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Haag wrote: Once again, I agree with MK here. Does anyone know how many members are on the W3C that are representatives of Microsoft, and how many are representatives of Netscape? From pf at cfdev.com Thu May 23 11:17:01 2002 From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag) Date: Thu May 23 11:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: <019101c2026a$da8f2b80$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Message-ID: Rob also check out ActivEdit http://www.cfdev.com/activedit/ works on CF, PHP, ASP, and JSP starts at $99 we are also going to be releasing a netscape, and Mac, Linux, Solaris compatible version this summer. _____________________________________________ Pete Freitag (pfreitag at cfdev.com) CTO, CFDEV.COM ColdFusion Developer Resources http://www.cfdev.com/ -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rob Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:02 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: Re: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors Nagrom, > i sure wish it supported CSS (maybe the new one does) The pro version claims to ... since we're having a play with the free version before we shell out $300 I obviously can't substantiate that ;) > another annoying feature is that all html comes back out capitalized, with > quotes around attributes removed. > this apparently is a function of the msobject doing the work behind the > scenes, but it's still annoying. Fair enough, to be honest this is mainly so a client can do some of their own updating rather than having to mail everything to us. Thanks for your comments and all the suggestions. -- Rob Wilson robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 11:38:01 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 11:38:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078129@ati-ex-01.ati.local> hi. for the life of me i cannot get a background to appear. i'm using XHTML Transitional. IE6/Win2k. in the CSS i've got: body { background-image: url(""); } and absolutely nothing happens. it's driving me crazy. i've tried taking out the DOCTYPE and all that stuff, still no luck. please help! aarggghhh! chris. From lists at irubin.com Thu May 23 11:39:00 2002 From: lists at irubin.com (Kevin) Date: Thu May 23 11:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix Message-ID: <000d01c20279$4331f100$6501a8c0@irubinmain> Hello, I am having some trouble deleting a file with spaces, in the format of: File Test?.html I have attempted rm -f File Test?.html with no success. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. Kevin From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu May 23 11:46:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu May 23 11:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix In-Reply-To: <000d01c20279$4331f100$6501a8c0@irubinmain> Message-ID: <002b01c20279$57db6690$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> try rm File\Test?.html or rm File\Test\?.html Haven't tested, unsure of escaping question mark right off the bat. HTH! -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:45 AM To: Thelist Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix Hello, I am having some trouble deleting a file with spaces, in the format of: File Test?.html I have attempted rm -f File Test?.html with no success. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. Kevin -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From martin at takingitglobal.org Thu May 23 11:54:00 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Thu May 23 11:54:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708C8@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <001201c2027a$3f5584b0$6c01a8c0@martinlaptop> > Its an acquired taste and a hard to consume. Absolutely... But did you look @ the siemens demo? Bloody awesome! Hehe Of course, forcing users to download/install a plugin which actively attempts to simulate the usual web-browser interface... ...and source for programming stuff being browser-viewable... Ew. -m From ben at inchima.com Thu May 23 11:58:01 2002 From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips) Date: Thu May 23 11:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix In-Reply-To: <000d01c20279$4331f100$6501a8c0@irubinmain> Message-ID: <005801c2027a$f0b6c250$0300a8c0@BS> > I am having some trouble deleting a file with spaces, in the > format of: > > File Test?.html you can escape the space: File\ Test.html but i didn't think you could have question marks in filenames cos it is a wildcard isn't it? btw: i'm no linux expert. benji inchima.com From jjk3 at msstate.edu Thu May 23 12:03:00 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Thu May 23 12:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix In-Reply-To: <002b01c20279$57db6690$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 use quotes: rm "File Test?.html" - -joel - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com - -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:46 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix try rm File\Test?.html or rm File\Test\?.html Haven't tested, unsure of escaping question mark right off the bat. HTH! - -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:45 AM To: Thelist Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix Hello, I am having some trouble deleting a file with spaces, in the format of: File Test?.html I have attempted rm -f File Test?.html with no success. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. Kevin - -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! - -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPO0gQX880CLOJa2eEQLqkgCgsypBb/170SDlHj1xoW4szENZ/fcAoPpR r63LHXqxsRn3cdCDMmh6+v7/ =4dus -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hassan at webtuitive.com Thu May 23 12:06:01 2002 From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder) Date: Thu May 23 12:06:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [Offtopic?] Delete a file - unix References: <000d01c20279$4331f100$6501a8c0@irubinmain> Message-ID: <3CED218D.17E9E614@webtuitive.com> Kevin wrote: > > Hello, > > I am having some trouble deleting a file with spaces, in the format of: > > File Test?.html rm 'File Test?.html' -- note, *single* quotes ... -- H* Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 -- From howcheng at ix.netcom.com Thu May 23 12:09:01 2002 From: howcheng at ix.netcom.com (Howard Cheng) Date: Thu May 23 12:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020523095941.00abbc08@popd.ix.netcom.com> Here's a pretty complete list of what's available: http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html I liked Ekit myself -- it's a Java applet, but because it uses Swing it really only works via the Java plug-in and Netscape 4.x doesn't allow Javascript to communicate to an applet via the plug-in (I think it works OK with N6). At 12:37 PM 5/23/2002 +0100, Rob Wilson wrote: >Hi, > >doing some research on these and was wondering whether anyone had any >experience with these ? > >We're looking for a formbased editor which would allow users to edit the >HTML of pages on the site. Ideally they wouldn't be template based as we're >looking to slot the HTML produced into our own templates. > >At the moment the 2 I've found are Fastpage (Perl) and SoEditor (CF custom >tag) :::::::::::::::::::::: Howard Cheng howcheng at ix.netcom.com AIM: bennyphoebe ICQ: 47319315 From dan at danromanchik.com Thu May 23 12:10:01 2002 From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik) Date: Thu May 23 12:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? References: <001201c2027a$3f5584b0$6c01a8c0@martinlaptop> Message-ID: <011601c2027c$89bf6fa0$c27ba8c0@D9J77B01> Not to mention that you have to pay every time someone executes a Curl script/program/whatever it is they're calling it. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Romanchik - Web Developer dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Kuplens-Ewart" To: Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] CURL? > > Its an acquired taste and a hard to consume. > > Absolutely... But did you look @ the siemens demo? > > Bloody awesome! > > Hehe > > Of course, forcing users to download/install a plugin which actively > attempts to simulate the usual web-browser interface... > ...and source for programming stuff being browser-viewable... Ew. > > -m > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 12:18:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 12:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078129@ati-ex-01.ati.local> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078129@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: <20020523181848.2f61d64c.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 09:37:26 -0700 "Chris W. Parker" wrote: > for the life of me i cannot get a background to appear. i'm using > XHTML Transitional. IE6/Win2k. > > in the CSS i've got: > > body { > background-image: url(""); > } > > and absolutely nothing happens. it's driving me crazy. i've tried > taking out the DOCTYPE and all that stuff, still no luck. The syntax looks correct, its a little hard to troubleshoot without a URL though. The only thing I can think of is that you are providing a relative URL based on the location of the HTML document rather then the style sheet. -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 12:28:01 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 12:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFB@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > The syntax looks correct, its a little hard to troubleshoot without a > URL though. The only thing I can think of is that you are providing a > relative URL based on the location of the HTML document rather then > the style sheet. ooookkkkk.... so are you saying that i need to reference the image from where the stylesheet is located and not from where the document that the picture is appearing in is located? i'm doing this on my home computer and am using frontpage to create "webs" out of directory's off the root. so for example... / - root /css - where my xhtml/css test site is located /css/styles/default2.css - where the .css file is located /css/images/bgs/bg2.gif - where the background file is located... since the index.asp file is in the /css directory (/css/index2.asp) and my .css file is in the /css/styles directory (/css/styles/default2.css) i should reference the background like this? background-image: url(/css/images/bgs/bg2.gif); whereas before i was doing this... background-image: url(/images/bgs/bg2.gif); i was doing that because i thought the webserver would realize that /css was the root of that web and not the actual root of the whole site i.e. / (i think i just got a little confusing there...) anyways, i think the problem is that i was referencing it wrong. i'll try it when i get home later, or *maybe* at work. thanks, chris. p.s. > HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. what's a CV? From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 12:30:01 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 12:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working - SOLVED Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07812B@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > anyways, i think the problem is that i was referencing it wrong. i'll > try it when i get home later, or *maybe* at work. yes that was the problem. makes sense. From mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com Thu May 23 12:36:00 2002 From: mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Thu May 23 12:36:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php+mySQL Message-ID: <005b01c20280$33c28250$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> I have a form that is passing variables to this PHP script to: 1. Create a database 2. Create a table in that database 3. Insert data into the table The database is created no problem. BUT! The table does not get created. Is there another way to create a table inside a mySQL database using PHP? Here is the code: Records affected: %d\n", mysql_affected_rows()); ?> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, markJ From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 12:43:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 12:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFB@ati-ex-01.ati.local> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFB@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: <20020523184401.7a09f4ab.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 10:27:08 -0700 "Chris W. Parker" wrote: > > The syntax looks correct, its a little hard to troubleshoot > > without a URL though. The only thing I can think of is that you > > are providing a relative URL based on the location of the HTML > > document rather then the style sheet. > ooookkkkk.... so are you saying that i need to reference the image > from where the stylesheet is located and not from where the document > that the picture is appearing in is located? Yes > i'm doing this on my home computer and am using frontpage to create > "webs" out of directory's off the root. so for example... Frontpage... > / - root /css - where my xhtml/css test site is located > /css/styles/default2.css - where the .css file is located > /css/images/bgs/bg2.gif - where the background file is located... > since the index.asp file is in the /css directory (/css/index2.asp) > and my .css file is in the /css/styles directory > (/css/styles/default2.css) i should reference the background like > this? > background-image: url(/css/images/bgs/bg2.gif); > whereas before i was doing this... background-image: > url(/images/bgs/bg2.gif); Yes, although I would use genuine relative URLs. background-image: url('../images/bgs/bg2.gig'); > i was doing that because i thought the webserver would realize that > /css was the root of that web and not the actual root of the whole > site i.e. / The webserver sends the file that is requested, it only guesses if you have special modules installed to make the guess - and most don't due to the extra processing power this requires. If the browser asks for /images/bgs/bg2.gif then that is what the webserver will look for, not /css/images/bgs/bg2.gif > (i think i just got a little confusing there...) > anyways, i think the problem is that i was referencing it > wrong. i'll try it when i get home later, or *maybe* at work. Take a look at the server log files, if you get 404 errors then you should be able to use them to figure out the problem. > > HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a > > CV. > what's a CV? Americans would call it a resume. -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From skunkeh at dotuni.com Thu May 23 12:47:00 2002 From: skunkeh at dotuni.com (Simon Willison) Date: Thu May 23 12:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using Javascript to add tags to selected text in textarea Message-ID: <200205231603.RAA00854@ns.incutio.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: URL: From peter at poorbuthappy.com Thu May 23 12:47:08 2002 From: peter at poorbuthappy.com (PeterV) Date: Thu May 23 12:47:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT: what to do with virus warning? In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFB@ati-ex-01.ati.local > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020523133313.033db158@mail.poorbuthappy.com> Hi, I received an email stating that I had sent a virus to someone. It said: "Please contact your system administrator. The scanned document was QUARANTINED. Virus Information: The attachment HREF.pif contained the virus W32.Klez.H at mm and could NOT be repaired." Now I have the latest Mcaffee virus definitions in my virus program and it scans all outgoing messages. I *am* getting lots of virusses lately, about 3 a day, with email titles that seem scaringly familiar. I am worried I am sending everyone virusses now! Any tips? Peter Running Apache on Windows for local development and having problems? Go to your httpd.conf file, and change the loglevel line to "LogLevel debug". This will add more detail to your error logs so you can find out why apache won't start or your virtualhosts won't work. From jjk3 at msstate.edu Thu May 23 12:55:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Thu May 23 12:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist]
problems with Mozilla Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I can't for the life of me get Mozilla to left-align an
. It renders it correctly, with the right lenght and height and all, but it always centers it. I've tried putting style="text-align: left;" in the
tag itself, in a parent , in a parent
, and a combination of all of them, and still it insists on centering the
. Any advice? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPO0svX880CLOJa2eEQJ00wCg55EWM+4vWik5KDhMakUj4RUCLwUAoNTF gwQB0nZ9t8iigrhKKNOllaHe =t/ug -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From judah at wiredotter.com Thu May 23 13:01:00 2002 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Thu May 23 13:01:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors References: <00fa01c2024e$4a59a9d0$2c01020a@Beanstalk> <003901c20269$ff716b80$0b01a8c0@nagrom> <019101c2026a$da8f2b80$2c01020a@Beanstalk> Message-ID: <3CED2E1B.7000206@wiredotter.com> Rob Wilson wrote: > Nagrom, > > >>i sure wish it supported CSS (maybe the new one does) > > > The pro version claims to ... since we're having a play with the free > version before we shell out $300 I obviously can't substantiate that ;) I've got the pro version that I use in my CMS product. The first version was OK. Not great, had some irritating quirks (like not being able to unlink and link and wrapping font tags within font tags), but version 2.1 (current version) is really nice. Each user in my CMS system has their own site with their own CSS file and I use their CSS file as the base css attribute for the soeditor. That way the background color, font face, font size and color, etc is all correct. It works like a charm. The image upload feature takes too many clicks to actually do something, in my opinion, but it's functional. The author has been very good about incorporating user feedback into revisions of the product so I'm pretty happy. The only real knock I have against it is that it's Win/IE 5+ specific. But there isn't anything out there with comparable features/price range that doesn't also have those limitations. I'm looking forward to the next release of ActiveEdit. Peter says that it will have more broad-based support. I'm assuming that they are doing it in Java since they have started adding java-based cfx tags to their download area. I can't wait to check it out. Judah From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu May 23 13:01:13 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu May 23 13:01:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] php+mySQL In-Reply-To: <005b01c20280$33c28250$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> Message-ID: <002d01c20283$e0911110$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] $db_connect = mysql_select_db("$db_name", $link) or die ("Could not find the database."); mysql("CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL,$description char(50) NOT NULL,$version char(20) NOT NULL)"); [/snip] You need to treat the query for table creation the same as any other query. $createsql = "CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL "; $createsql .= "$description char(50) NOT NULL "; $createsql .= "$version char(20) NOT NULL) "; Don't forget to concat variables in these statements, and make sure the user has grants to create, and make sure to flush! HTH! Jay From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 13:04:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 13:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist]
problems with Mozilla In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020523190522.08f3955d.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 12:54:06 -0500 "Joel Konkle-Parker" wrote: > I can't for the life of me get Mozilla to left-align an
. It > renders it correctly, with the right lenght and height and all, but > it always centers it. I've tried putting style="text-align: left;" in > the
tag itself, in a parent , in a parent
, and a > combination of all of them, and still it insists on centering the >
. Any advice? Test of HR

Left aligned HR in Mozilla

Last modified: Thu May 23 19:04:49 BST 2002 -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Thu May 23 13:05:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Thu May 23 13:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS Line Spacing Issue Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C221@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have a bunch of small images which I would like to have displayed in rows:
I want there to be no space between the rows, but I can't seem to get the space between the rows to disappear. Any suggestions? Thanks, Josh From webguy at mail.rit.edu Thu May 23 13:08:01 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Thu May 23 13:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using Javascript to add tags to selected text in textarea In-Reply-To: <200205231603.RAA00854@ns.incutio.com> Message-ID: Hi Simon- I don't know that you'll be able to do this with Mozilla, but it is certainly possible with IE. Check this out: theSelection = document.selection.createRange().text; document.selection.createRange().text = "*" + theSelection + "*"; This is straight off the phpBB forum software, at phpBB.com. HTH! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > I'm currently enhancing a Wiki script (Phiki Wiki from > http://ontosys.com/phiki/PhikiWiki ) and I want to add a feature where by > users can highlight some text in a text area on the "Edit Page" > page and click > a button to add Wiki bold tags (or italic tags or whatever) around the > selected text. I know how to grab the currently selected text using DHTML: > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/selected.html > > My problem is then adding content (in this case Wiki tags) to > either side of > the selected text. I've thought about doing it by running a simple replace > operation on the text in the textarea replacing "selectedtext" with > "*selectedtext*" - however this is not ideal as it will not work if the > selected text occurs more than once in the textarea (with the > sentence "the > cat sat on the mat" for example, selecting the word "the" and hitting the > button would either add tags to every instance of "the" in the sentence or > only add tags to the first occurence of the word). > > Is it possible to do what I am trying to do with Javascript? > Ideally I would > like a solution for both Mozilla and IE, but I don't mind if it > just works on > Mozilla. > > Cheers, > > Simon Willison From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 13:09:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Thu May 23 13:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php+mySQL References: <005b01c20280$33c28250$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> Message-ID: <021e01c20283$9a7e1240$87b6b7c7@compaq> > // Accessing the database > > $db_connect = mysql_select_db("$db_name", $link) or die ("Could not find the > database."); > mysql("CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL,$description > char(50) NOT NULL,$version char(20) NOT NULL)"); > > > mysql("INSERT INTO $db_tablename VALUES ($s_name, $s_description, > $s_version)"); > printf ("
Records affected: %d\n", mysql_affected_rows()); > > ?> > Hey Mark : You say that the database is created, but the tables aren't? Might be a matter that the mySQL database information has to be "refreshed". I'm not a mySQL expert, so I can't really tell you how to do this, but a thought comes to mind that if you closed your connection and reopened it, that might help. Also, I am not familiar with mysql(), I always use mysql_db_query("querystring"). hth, Burhan Khalid From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu May 23 13:12:04 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Thu May 23 13:12:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT: what to do with virus warning? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020523133313.033db158@mail.poorbuthappy.com> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFB@ati-ex-01.ati.local > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523105237.0321a7e8@baratta.com> At 10:38 AM 5/23/2002, PeterV wrote: >Hi, I received an email stating that I had sent a virus to someone. It said: The latest worm forges the "from" address. It's quite possible that the infected email did not come from you. --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Thu May 23 13:20:00 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Thu May 23 13:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] a nice PHP thingie Message-ID: Starting to like PHP, though I've only tinkered with other person's programs so far. Maybe I'll learn this one after all, though it's the usual routine-oriented looping thing. Cheers Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com Most of you probably know this already, but if you don't, there's a (relatively new?) HTML-Kit plug-in (at http://www.chami.com) to install (don't even have to unzip; install from HTML-Kit), for PHP development. Among other things, the module (plug-in, I mean) has tabs for different database [calls? commands? what word goes here? I don't care!]... Might be helpful for some folks. Still free! From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 13:21:00 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 13:21:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFC@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > > i'm doing this on my home computer and am using frontpage to create > > "webs" out of directory's off the root. so for example... > > Frontpage... i don't like dreamweaver (too many bells and whistles) and notepad doesn't have color coding, and i've never used anything else. chris. From slewis at macrovista.net Thu May 23 13:24:00 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Thu May 23 13:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php writing to a file References: Message-ID: <3CED34C4.2040808@macrovista.net> Andrew Maynes wrote: > $string = implode("\t",$_POST); > $fp = fopen("file.txt","w"); > fwrite($fp,$product); > fclose($fp); > However, this aint a solution. I need for each different user to be able to > write to a different file and inparticular to be able to identify with that file > later specifically in assocaition with the user who submitted the info :) does > that make sense? If you want to specify your own filename, replace file.txt with a variable. I probably misunderstand. If you need an arbitrary filename use tempnam() [ http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.tempnam.php ] which was designed for this purpose. It looks like you want to record that specified filename in the session for that user, so they use the same file throughout the visitor's time on your website. > The code above > will not recognise individual users it will only overwrite anything submitted > rfom the form! If you want to add new data to an existing file you should open the file in append mode, not write mode. [ http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.fopen.php ] > do you think it would be easy to convert to code and csv files to a > database > solution? I reckon it means starting it all again? I heartily agree that you should seriously consider using a database rather than csv files. Most database systems allow data to be imported from a cvs file so you should have little problems with migration. --Steve From webguy at mail.rit.edu Thu May 23 13:24:08 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Thu May 23 13:24:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFC@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: Homesite! That's all I have to contribute. ;) Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > i don't like dreamweaver (too many bells and whistles) and notepad > doesn't have color coding, and i've never used anything else. > > > chris. From brent at fusemarketing.com Thu May 23 13:27:01 2002 From: brent at fusemarketing.com (Brent Martino) Date: Thu May 23 13:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS Link Question Message-ID: I am new to using style sheets and I have put one together that so far has been working out well for my site, the only problem I have encountered is with link colors. If I want to have different colors for links, for example the links for the main navigation are blue with a red rollover and the links for the sub navigation are green with a yellow rollover, how do I define the second set of links. The first set uses the a:active, a:hover etc. how and where do I set up the second set of links? Can I do it in my linked style sheet or do I have to build it in to the page. _______________ Brent Martino From slewis at macrovista.net Thu May 23 13:36:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Thu May 23 13:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Quality Control, etc. of MS products References: Message-ID: <3CED378F.6000607@macrovista.net> ashok at magicalkenya.com wrote: > In the Nt4 days i would tend to agree with accusations against MS about > poor/lack of quality control -- but off late (more precisely since win2k > came out) things have improved noticeably. I don't know where you have come to your understanding, but 12 months ago, there were more known security exploits in Win2k than in WinNT and Win 98 combined. I believe that data is also available somewhere in the depths of the archives at securityfocus. That tends to suggest to me that nothing has improved noticeably. Add to that fact that securityfocus was NOT counting each and every exploit that takes advantage of VBS scripting and MS Outlook (aka email viruses)--that MS refuses to fix in a mature way. "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." --Steve From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 13:36:09 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 13:36:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFC@ati-ex-01.ati.local> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE032FFC@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: <20020523193706.7b7d464a.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 11:20:45 -0700 "Chris W. Parker" wrote: >> Frontpage... > > i don't like dreamweaver (too many bells and whistles) Nor do I, although more for the quality of its code (which is a lot better then FrontPage (in my experience)). > notepad doesn't have color coding, and i've never used anything > else. Free text editors supporting HTML syntax highlighting: Arachnophillia (http://www.arachnoid.com/arachnophilia/) Emacs (http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) First Page 2000 (http://www.evrsoft.com/) -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 13:37:01 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 13:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS Line Spacing Issue Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078131@ati-ex-01.ati.local> how about putting css to work properly and creating a class for all those "background-color:#ffffff;" definitions? .imageBKG { background-color: #FFFFFF; } as for your other problem... >
> border='0' > width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> border='0' width='10' > height='10'> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> >
> >
> border='0' > width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> border='0' width='10' > height='10'> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> >
> >
> border='0' > width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> style="background-color:#FFFFFF;"> border='0' width='10' > height='10'> src="clear.gif" border='0' width='10' height='10'> >
how about using one div instead of three and including all your tags inside one

tag? (i'm just throwing out ideas, i don't know if this will work...) the reason i suggest this is because you don't assign the three different divs any sort of class or id. so there is really no reason (in my mind, that i know of) to seperate them considering they are producing an undesired effect. you have something like this...

.......
.......
.......
try something like this instead...



i'm just guessing, but in this case you can adjust the class, imageBKG, to also include line-height(?). thus making the spacing between each line larger or smaller. HTH, chris. From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 13:44:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 13:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS Link Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020523194430.69664702.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 14:24:17 -0400 "Brent Martino" wrote: > I am new to using style sheets and I have put one together that so > far has been working out well for my site, the only problem I have > encountered is with link colors. If I want to have different colors > for links, for example the links for the main navigation are blue > with a red rollover and the links for the sub navigation are green > with a yellow rollover, how do I define the second set of links. The > first set uses the a:active, a:hover etc. how and where do I set up > the second set of links? Can I do it in my linked style sheet or do > I have to build it in to the page. With classes/ids: http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/selectors/index.html See my site for an example. -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From cparker at swatgear.com Thu May 23 13:46:01 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Thu May 23 13:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS: background images not working Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078134@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > >> Frontpage... > > > > i don't like dreamweaver (too many bells and whistles) > > Nor do I, although more for the quality of its code (which is a lot > better then FrontPage (in my experience)). i totally agree with you. that's why i write everything by hand in the HTML view of frontpage and don't use the layout tools at all. > > notepad doesn't have color coding, and i've never used anything > > else. > > Free text editors supporting HTML syntax highlighting: > > Arachnophillia (http://www.arachnoid.com/arachnophilia/) > Emacs (http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) > First Page 2000 (http://www.evrsoft.com/) thanks for the links. i'll check them out when i get home. chris. From mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com Thu May 23 13:48:00 2002 From: mark.joslyn at solimarsystems.com (Mark Joslyn) Date: Thu May 23 13:48:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] php+mySQL In-Reply-To: <002d01c20283$e0911110$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> Message-ID: <005c01c2028a$2cd73940$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> [snip] You need to treat the query for table creation the same as any other query. $createsql = "CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL "; $createsql .= "$description char(50) NOT NULL "; $createsql .= "$version char(20) NOT NULL) "; Don't forget to concat variables in these statements, and make sure the user has grants to create, and make sure to flush! [/snip] There was an error in my original code snippit. It should have read: mysql_query("CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL,$description char(50) NOT NULL,$version char(20) NOT NULL)"); Jay, not sure how separating the commands will help. Still not sure where I am going wrong. Any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks, markJ From rogerly at bareviking.com Thu May 23 13:55:01 2002 From: rogerly at bareviking.com (Roger Ly) Date: Thu May 23 13:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CSS Link Question Message-ID: <20020523115056.1941.h002.c007.wm@mail.bareviking.com.criticalpath.net> >The first set uses the a:active, a:hover etc. >how and where do I set up the second set of links? >Can I do it in my linked style >sheet or do I have to build it in to the page. try this: .main_nav { color: #0000FF; } a.main_nav:hover { color: #FF0000; } .secondary_nav { color: #00FF00; } a.secondary_nav:hover { color: #FFFFEE; } yahoo homestead Roger From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Thu May 23 13:57:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Thu May 23 13:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] php+mySQL In-Reply-To: <005c01c2028a$2cd73940$300aa8c0@dt1h20b> Message-ID: <002f01c2028b$97dfa000$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] Don't forget to concat variables in these statements, and make sure the user has grants to create, and make sure to flush! mysql_query("CREATE TABLE $db_tablename ($name char(20) NOT NULL,$description char(50) NOT NULL,$version char(20) NOT NULL)"); [/snip] Try concatting the variables; mysql_query("CREATE TABLE " . $db_tablename . " (" . $name . " char(20) NOT NULL, " . $description . "char(50) NOT NULL, " . $version . "char(20) NOT NULL)"); Jay From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 14:27:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Thu May 23 14:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML Message-ID: <034001c2028f$7ef8d210$87b6b7c7@compaq> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hello Listees : All this talk about databasing has me thinking, what the advantages of databases over say an XML file or a flat file for simple projects. I had a collection of quotes in a database, which I moved to a flat file (since it was, imo, overkill). When does data require the use of a database? Does it have to do more with the content, or the application? In your experience(s), have you ever had to move stuff away from database to a simpler system(s)? I know lots of people go the other route, but when would it be better to "downgrade"? Short of moving to a host that doesn't have your favorite database, or for backup, are there any other reasons to go to flat-filing? Your opinions are always great, Burhan -- From muinar at gmx.net Thu May 23 14:28:00 2002 From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r) Date: Thu May 23 14:28:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP send email with images *embedded* Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020523195207.022b4860@mail.msk.ch> Hi Evolters ;) After several hours of googling and testing, I'm asking the list for some help with this PHP mail() question: How do you send email with images *embedded* in the message? (I managed to send them embedded with real URLs so they are d'loaded when the message is viewed - but here we need to send the images together with the email) I'm using Content-Disposition: inline... though the images in the message itself are broken while attached at the bottom instead. Tried some combinations of in the message and Content-ID: <03.gif> in the header - didn't work... what is it that I'm missing here? Thanks a lot Mike From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov Thu May 23 14:59:04 2002 From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov) Date: Thu May 23 14:59:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML Message-ID: Burhan, That's quite a complex question. (-: Databases management systems (DBMS's -- Oracle, SQL, MySQL, Postgres, etc) have certain features that you can't get with a flat file or XML. When those features become important, you use a DBMS. When they are not important, you can probably downgrade. Some of the obvious reasons to use a DBMS: * Speed. Modern DBMS's build indices and have very advanced routines for getting you data as quickly as possible. * Management of relational entities. DBMS's are good at storing data about multiple, related entities. * Transaction and liveness guarantees. DBMS's allow you to protect your data -- back it up, be able to roll back unwanted transactions, ensure that a set of operations on data executes atomically, etc. I'm sure I'm missing a few important ones -- those were just the ones that came to mind. Others on the list will supply additions, I'm sure. (-: For your quote file, is speed a problem when you use a flat file? Do you have relationships between quotes you need to manage? Do you need a very reliable transaction-based system for maintaining your quotes? Ask yourself what important (for *your* app) features a DBMS is getting you that a flat file or XML wouldn't. Then ask yourself what it's costing you (in terms of maintaining the DBMS software, added code for your app, etc). Then ask yourself if those costs are worth the benefits you are getting. That's a decision only you are qualified to make. I shouldn't lump "flat file" and "XML" together -- to me, a "flat file" implies storage of entities of a single type, whereas "XML" is a structured format that stores multiple types of entities and their hierarchical relationship. In those contexts, XML can do what flat files cannot, but it is still best thought of as another kind of file format. FWIW, I almost always use a DBMS, because I almost always find that it does something I need to do that I wouldn't be able to do as well on my own -- but that might not be the case for your app. DBMS's are wonderful tools, but they are not always necessary and sometimes can add needless complexity to your application. Jonathan. -----Original Message----- From: Burhan Khalid [mailto:burhankhalid at members.evolt.org] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:25 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hello Listees : All this talk about databasing has me thinking, what the advantages of databases over say an XML file or a flat file for simple projects. I had a collection of quotes in a database, which I moved to a flat file (since it was, imo, overkill). When does data require the use of a database? Does it have to do more with the content, or the application? In your experience(s), have you ever had to move stuff away from database to a simpler system(s)? I know lots of people go the other route, but when would it be better to "downgrade"? Short of moving to a host that doesn't have your favorite database, or for backup, are there any other reasons to go to flat-filing? Your opinions are always great, Burhan -- From amccoy at goodmanct.com Thu May 23 15:15:01 2002 From: amccoy at goodmanct.com (McCoy, Alan) Date: Thu May 23 15:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable table cell Message-ID: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F2A8@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> I have a table cell that will contain content that may be too much to fit into the existing design. Is it possible to make a table cell somehow permit scrolling whenever content exeeds the specified height of the table? This is really puzzling me... Or at least a workaround that would be reliable... Any help with this will bring you much merit and good karma... ;-) Alan From Matt at grndwtr.com Thu May 23 15:17:01 2002 From: Matt at grndwtr.com (Matthias Ritzkowski) Date: Thu May 23 15:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] apache ssl Message-ID: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B01280383F2D@mail1> Hi all- I am currently stuck trying to get a secure Apache Server to work. Suse 7.2 Apache compiled with mod_ssl I am looking for some helpful Howto's or hints from people who have successfully done this. TIA Regards Matthias Ritzkowski From rob.smith at thermon.com Thu May 23 15:24:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu May 23 15:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] CURL? Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708CD@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] neat but I broke it. > Its an acquired taste and a hard to consume. Absolutely... But did you look @ the siemens demo? Bloody awesome! Hehe Of course, forcing users to download/install a plugin which actively attempts to simulate the usual web-browser interface... ...and source for programming stuff being browser-viewable... Ew. -m -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 15:26:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 15:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable table cell In-Reply-To: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F2A8@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> References: <6EA277CAA880A349870428C3AE42B33622F2A8@admin.admin.goodmanct.com> Message-ID: <20020523212638.062c8e7e.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 16:14:37 -0400 "McCoy, Alan" wrote: > I have a table cell that will contain content that may be too much to > fit into the existing design. Is it possible to make a table cell > somehow permit scrolling whenever content exeeds the specified height > of the table? This is really puzzling me... http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Scrolling_table_cell -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu May 23 15:30:09 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Thu May 23 15:30:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] apache ssl In-Reply-To: <8179FA78B6D0D111AA53006097B01280383F2D@mail1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523132713.03233598@baratta.com> Here are my cheat notes from the last setup of servers I setup.....YMMV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Documentation for Installing Apache, mod_ssl, mod_perl, and php ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Need to be "root" for this to work] ######### CPAN Update ######### perl -MCPAN -e shell (run through config and update to latest version) use CPAN to install Bundles below. install 'Bundle::libnet' install 'Bundle::LWP' install 'Bundle::DBI' install 'Bundle::DBD::mysql' install 'Bundle::Apache' install 'Bundle::Slash' You may need to manually install some components. Don't expect every part to install, ever. ;-P ######### mod_ssl ######### http://www.modssl.org/ ./configure --with-apache=../apache_1.3.20 \ --with-ssl=/usr \ --enable-shared=ssl ######### mod_perl ######### [This part completes the Apache install too] http://perl.apache.org/ edit Makefile.PL add "-DEAPI " to CFLAGS perl Makefile.PL USE_APACI=1 \ EVERYTHING=1 PERL_MARK_WHERE=1 \ DO_HTTPD=1 \ SSL_BASE=/usr/ \ APACHE_PREFIX=/usr/local/apache \ APACI_ARGS=--enable-module=ssl,--enable-module=so,--enable-shared=ssl make make test make install ######### Apache ######### http://httpd.apache.org/dist/ (create the following links) cd /etc/rc.d/init.d ln -s /usr/local/apache/bin/apachectl apache cd /etc/rc.d/rc3.d ln -s ../init.d/apache S85apache ln -s ../init.d/apache K85apache cd /etc/rc.d/rc5.d ln -s ../init.d/apache S85apache ln -s ../init.d/apache K85apache ######### PHP ######### http://www.php.net/ ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/php \ --exec-prefix=/usr/local/php \ --with-mysql=/usr \ --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache/bin/apxs \ --with-openssl=/usr/ \ --with-pgsql=/usr/lib/pgsql \ --enable-magic-quotes \ --enable-trans-sid [get working later] --with-aspell=/usr/lib/aspell \ --with-pspell=/usr/share/pspell \ make make install ---------------- Edit httpd.conf file to taste. --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From mail at paranoidfish.org Thu May 23 15:39:01 2002 From: mail at paranoidfish.org (paul hammond) Date: Thu May 23 15:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] In-Reply-To: <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> References: <20020522233104.88682.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> Message-ID: <20020523204043.GA10568@guppy.fish.ddts.net> On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 07:37:21PM -0400, Michael KImsal wrote: > The "view source" will do a 'get' again on the URL, resulting > in the source you're looking at being different from what the browser > rendered. > > Printing is the same, and it's even worse with printing because I can't [...] > > It's a 'known' issue for about 4 years now, with, sad to say, no fix in > site. > Please correct me if I'm wrong [I haven't checked this myself recently] but according to mozillazine's coverage, this was fixed in Mozilla RC1: http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2194 Comments in bugzilla also suggest this should have been fixed: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40867 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55583 If nothing else, I've found that being able to check the existance of a bug in a centralised database gives Mozilla an advantage from a development perspective. At least this way you don't waste too much time wondering if it is a bug in your code or the browser... paul From michael at tapinternet.com Thu May 23 15:46:01 2002 From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal) Date: Thu May 23 15:46:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] RE: [ - Examples of Importing XML into Netscape or Mozilla? - ] References: <20020522233104.88682.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <3CEC2BB1.3080200@tapinternet.com> <20020523204043.GA10568@guppy.fish.ddts.net> Message-ID: <3CED54D9.6020102@tapinternet.com> paul hammond wrote: >> > >Please correct me if I'm wrong [I haven't checked this myself recently] >but according to mozillazine's coverage, this was fixed in Mozilla RC1: >http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2194 > It still *seems* to be an issue with the RC1 I tried - I didn't try RC2 yet. And I didn't do a 'fresh' install of RC1, it was an install over an existing previous copy (shouldn't affect things I didn't think, but hey). If it *is* fixed in RC1 or RC2, I'll consider it a great step forward. I'll be grabbing RC2 over the weekend and will try it then. Thanks for the update. Michael Kimsal http://www.logicreate.com/ From zaunere at yahoo.com Thu May 23 15:51:03 2002 From: zaunere at yahoo.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu May 23 15:51:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP send email with images *embedded* In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020523195207.022b4860@mail.msk.ch> Message-ID: <20020523205043.8835.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com> You need to know how to creat a MIME-compliant message for attachments. Either read the RFCs and compose the mail yourself, or there are many libraries for this (phpclasses.websapp.com) and PEAR. Or just google for "MIME PHP class" or something similar. Hans Z. New York PHP http://nyphp.org --- m u i n a r wrote: > Hi Evolters ;) > > After several hours of googling and testing, I'm asking the list for > some help > with this PHP mail() question: How do you send email with images > *embedded* > in the > message? > > (I managed to send them embedded with real URLs so they are d'loaded > when the > message is viewed - but here we need to send the images together with > the > email) > > I'm using Content-Disposition: inline... though the images in the > message > itself > are broken while attached at the bottom instead. > > Tried some combinations of in the message and > Content-ID: <03.gif> in the header - didn't work... what is it that > I'm > missing here? > > Thanks a lot > > Mike > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From webshot at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 15:56:01 2002 From: webshot at members.evolt.org (John Corry) Date: Thu May 23 15:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML In-Reply-To: <034001c2028f$7ef8d210$87b6b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <000301c2029c$29a1d2a0$6801a8c0@neonreactor> All this talk about databasing has me thinking, what the > advantages of databases over say an XML file or a flat file > for simple projects. I had a collection of quotes in a > database, which I moved to a flat file (since it was, imo, > overkill). I use databases on sites where they're available...but db hosting generally costs a little more and ALL of my sites have features where storing info in a file and including it in a template is useful. Whenever I use features like that with flat files (php's getcsv() function is killer!) I notice that I have to write a bunch of logic that takes the place of SQL. I wish there was a way to define a flat file as a 'table' and select/update/insert rows from it through SQL statements...that would be cool! jpc From rob.smith at thermon.com Thu May 23 15:59:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Thu May 23 15:59:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] I need some help with Asp 2.0 Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708CF@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi list I'm in a bind. I know that there is asp code to detect browser settings and other assorted things. Is there any code or has anybody had to detect where the client is in the world? Thanks Rob From sgd at ti3.com Thu May 23 16:15:04 2002 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Thu May 23 16:15:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML Message-ID: > > I wish there was a way to define a flat file as a 'table' and > select/update/insert rows from it through SQL > statements...that would be cool! > There is ... at least, with MS there is. Head to http://msdn.microsoft.com/ and search for "Text ISAM" to get you a start... sgd From sam at sam-i-am.com Thu May 23 16:26:01 2002 From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam) Date: Thu May 23 16:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] win32 perl, maxlength for @argv? References: Message-ID: <3CED60C1.C083267B@sam-i-am.com> > you are probably running out of dos environment space [there is a limit to > the length of a single command line] that sounds most likely - with further testing the number of files I can select and pass through varies. > You can increase the environment space by looking at the 'properties' of > your shortcut , click on the 'Memory ' tab and increase the 'Initial > Environment' > to something like 4096 (the default is 'Auto') in win2k the properties window I get for the shortcut has these tabs: General, Shortcut, Options, Font, Layout, Colors, Security Options has familiar looking options - cursor size, display options, command history (buffer size, number of buffers), edit options -- but I don't see anywhere to actually change the environment memory?? does this live somewhere else ? many thanks Sam From Anthony at Baratta.com Thu May 23 16:43:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Thu May 23 16:43:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] I need some help with Asp 2.0 In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708CF@smtmb.thermon.com > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523144140.02c41030@baratta.com> At 01:59 PM 5/23/2002, Rob Smith wrote: >I'm in a bind. I know that there is asp code to detect browser settings and >other assorted things. Is there any code or has anybody had to detect where >the client is in the world? Try BrowserHawk.com --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br Thu May 23 16:45:01 2002 From: Amazon.Paulo at Amazoniacelular.com.br (Amazon Paulo) Date: Thu May 23 16:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable table cell Message-ID: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB08D20329@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br> Put the content inside a div, like this:
This is my content
You'll need to adjust the height, but it works really fine. /Paulo Guedes -----Original Message----- From: McCoy, Alan [mailto:amccoy at goodmanct.com] Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:15 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Scrollable table cell I have a table cell that will contain content that may be too much to fit into the existing design. Is it possible to make a table cell somehow permit scrolling whenever content exeeds the specified height of the table? This is really puzzling me... Or at least a workaround that would be reliable... Any help with this will bring you much merit and good karma... ;-) Alan -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evolt at david.us-lot.org Thu May 23 16:49:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Thu May 23 16:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable table cell In-Reply-To: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB08D20329@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br> References: <8B81473BB9E8D4118E6B0008C7B98AFB08D20329@belsc.amazoniacelular.com.br> Message-ID: <20020523225004.23a4ecb1.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Thu, 23 May 2002 17:52:56 -0300 Amazon Paulo wrote: > Put the content inside a div, like this: > >
This is > my content
> > You'll need to adjust the height, but it works really fine. One of the adjustments you will have to make is adding units.
This is my content
-- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From slewis at macrovista.net Thu May 23 17:49:01 2002 From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis) Date: Thu May 23 17:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Quality Control, etc. of MS products References: <3CED378F.6000607@macrovista.net> Message-ID: <3CED72BE.7000503@macrovista.net> Steve Lewis wrote: > "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what > they conceal is vital." > > --Steve > I should have attributed the quote to Joe Celko, as printed in Ken Henderson's "The Guru's Guide to Transact-SQL" ... What? Why are you looking at me like that? And I owe... When working in SQL, and you find yourself refering to the same table in a query and it's requisite subquery it is time to step back and refactor. This kills your efficiency with most RDBMS, try to reogranize the query so that you only refer to the table one time. --Steve From king_galen at hotmail.com Thu May 23 18:27:01 2002 From: king_galen at hotmail.com (KGIII) Date: Thu May 23 18:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NoSpam Timid Question that might make me owe a tip :) Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] But I haven't got any good tips. That was WHY I joined this list! Nor do I know the tip format... But here is my tip before I ask and stems from a subscription to another list/messageboard that I sometimes visit... I have found the following to be true... When you are first starting out with webpage design it is quite helpful and not at all rude to "copy" someone else's work. Make sure that you change it enough to make it your own and avoid using any of their content in the page but the format. Don't take their graphics and don't take their text without consent. You will find most webmasters will be happy to assist others. A well laid out webpage (not counting scripts) should function the exact same way and look the same on your hard drive before you load them to your server. If you find that the link does not work on your hard drive, chances are it won't work on your webpage either. I know they are basic but I couldn't think of anything else and I know I am going to be praised by some and yelled at by others. I keep seeing job opportunities being posted in here. I often have work that I don't want to or can't do. Am I allowed to ask in here if there are people who are interested in taking over the job? Example being that I need to do some webpage design work for a guy in the UK who wants to sell ebooks. The ground work is there but I have too much business to do this without actually neglecting something else or not take the time off this weekend (which it looks like I am going to have to do as there is no one willing to do a page in the meager $50 that the pay is even though it is only one page... I of course am obligated to do it even though the price is so low as that is my company's motto.) Basically is there a place online that you all might recommend where I can put the jobs up for bids or is it OK to do so (original posting only, all others can come to my mail personally) in here? You seem to be some of the most knowledgeable in the field and I often have work like this to do that I simply don't have time or knowledge to do. Thanks in advance... Galen From gnarly at punkass.com Thu May 23 19:32:01 2002 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly) Date: Thu May 23 19:32:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Directory Sync Message-ID: <00f301c2024d$81a2c260$8d00a8c0@comp1> Hi, I want to syncronise two folders full of websites on a pair of networked PCs (Running Win2K). For some reason Ultradev's syncronise feature doesnt want to work over a LAN connection. Does anybody know of a similar tool to do the job? TIA, Olly Hodgson. From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Thu May 23 19:37:00 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Thu May 23 19:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] DBM databases... while were on this topic Message-ID: Since we seem to be having a pretty in depth and cool comparison of data management methods, lets throw in the good old DBM database. I for one quite like using it for simple PHP apps but as far as I can see it is very very unpopular... What are its quirks? How fast is it? love to hear from someone who has compared it to other methods From bharoche at usa.net Thu May 23 19:44:00 2002 From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche) Date: Thu May 23 19:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Directory Sync References: <00f301c2024d$81a2c260$8d00a8c0@comp1> Message-ID: <002d01c202bc$1aba0120$12f6c9d0@OFFICE> Take a look at FileSync -- www.fileware.com, inexpensive windows shareware. It works across a LAN. Regards, Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s http://www.OnPointSolutions.com From pf at cfdev.com Thu May 23 21:41:01 2002 From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag) Date: Thu May 23 21:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: <3CED2E1B.7000206@wiredotter.com> Message-ID: > I'm looking forward to the next release of ActiveEdit. Peter says that > it will have more broad-based support. I'm assuming that they are doing > it in Java since they have started adding java-based cfx tags to their > download area. I can't wait to check it out. Your assumption is correct, ActivEdit 3.0 will use a Java Applet for platforms other than Windows IE. _____________________________________________ Pete Freitag (pfreitag at cfdev.com) CTO, CFDEV.COM ColdFusion Developer Resources http://www.cfdev.com/ From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Thu May 23 21:51:01 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Thu May 23 21:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] DBM databases... while were on this topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10770707331.20020524045018@student.tue.nl> Hello Daniel, DF> love to hear from someone who has compared it to other methods It's fairly simple. DBM is a quick and easy solution, but you shouldn't try to use it for anything else than a single "table" database. It's speed can compare to that of MySQL but it's features come nowhere near it. DBM should therefore only be used when you need to store some fairly simple data and is especially useful when you're on a server that doesn't have an SQL server. In the latter case you could 'abuse' DBM for complex operations as well, but be prepared for a difficult ride if you have to approach a 'MySQL-like-dependent' application. -- GL, Michiel mailto:M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Thu May 23 21:57:01 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Thu May 23 21:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NoSpam Timid Question that might make me owe a tip :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8271078986.20020524045630@student.tue.nl> Hi King Galen the Third ... I've formatted your tip(s) in the correct format for you. It should be self-explanatory : I have found the following to be true... When you are first starting out with webpage design it is quite helpful and not at all rude to "copy" someone else's work. Make sure that you change it enough to make it your own and avoid using any of their content in the page but the format. Don't take their graphics and don't take their text without consent. You will find most webmasters will be happy to assist others. A well laid out webpage (not counting scripts) should function the exact same way and look the same on your hard drive before you load them to your server. If you find that the link does not work on your hard drive, chances are it won't work on your webpage either. GL, Michiel From joelm at citycent.com Thu May 23 22:00:01 2002 From: joelm at citycent.com (Joel Morris) Date: Thu May 23 22:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS file/directory access Message-ID: I have a client that needs to be able to deliver .doc and .pdf files to users, but only after they have registered. The concern is that once one user knows the link to the document - like "http://www.somedomain.com/files/thefile.pdf", then they could give that link out to anybody. I've done plenty of "password protected" pages with ASP, but since these are not .asp pages that solution doesn't work. What I'm looking for is the same function as .htaccess on a Linux/Apache system, but on an IIS 4.0/NT 4.0 server. As I understand it, NT Challenge/Response isn't really a solution since there will be hundreds (thousands maybe) of users needing to download these files, but they should not/could not be added as users on the NT server. Any ideas or references on how to solve this? Best, Joel Morris ------------------------------- CityCenter Co. Website Development & Marketing http://www.citycent.com mailto:joelm at citycent.com From isaac at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 22:01:01 2002 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Thu May 23 22:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Your assumption is correct, ActivEdit 3.0 will use a Java Applet for > platforms other than Windows IE. I'm curious to know whether anyone has ever considered building a similar function using Flash? Any thoughts as to why I could/couldn't work? isaac (who bought SoEditor recently -- yet to try it however) -------------------------------------------------------------- triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067 (08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au From joshua at waetech.com Thu May 23 22:06:00 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Thu May 23 22:06:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS file/directory access References: Message-ID: <00eb01c202cf$d67a72b0$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Morris" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:59 PM > I have a client that needs to be able to deliver .doc and .pdf files > to users, but only after they have registered. > > The concern is that once one user knows the link to the document - > like "http://www.somedomain.com/files/thefile.pdf", then they could > give that link out to anybody. > > I've done plenty of "password protected" pages with ASP, but since > these are not .asp pages that solution doesn't work. Joel, You can use an ASP page as a proxy for the data. The asp page, once it has decided that the user is valid, can return the content of the pdf file as it's content. Look at setting the content type of the response and the Response.BinaryWrite method. I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish this as well, but this is one approach. -joshua From pf at cfdev.com Thu May 23 22:08:00 2002 From: pf at cfdev.com (Pete Freitag) Date: Thu May 23 22:08:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes we have looked into it, Flash 6 makes it more perceivable, basic formatting is possible, but difficult. And I don't know how you could insert images and tables. _____________________________________________ Pete Freitag (pfreitag at cfdev.com) CTO, CFDEV.COM ColdFusion Developer Resources http://www.cfdev.com/ -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of isaac Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:09 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Web Based HTML Editors > Your assumption is correct, ActivEdit 3.0 will use a Java Applet for > platforms other than Windows IE. I'm curious to know whether anyone has ever considered building a similar function using Flash? Any thoughts as to why I could/couldn't work? isaac (who bought SoEditor recently -- yet to try it however) -------------------------------------------------------------- triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067 (08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From dbindel at austin.rr.com Thu May 23 22:22:01 2002 From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel) Date: Thu May 23 22:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error Message-ID: I am trying to set up my IIS web server to let anonymous users in, but it keeps asking me for a username and password. If I choose not to enter this information (by clicking the cancel button, obviously), it returns this error: HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource Internet Information Services I have had this problem before, but only when I had tried to browse the site using Mozilla. Now even Internet Explorer won't let me in without a password. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, could you point me in the right direction to fix this? Thanks in advance, David Bindel From roselli at earthlink.net Thu May 23 22:33:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu May 23 22:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CED7B87.10975.525A7ADC@localhost> > From: "Scott Dexter" > > > I wish there was a way to define a flat file as a 'table' and > > select/update/insert rows from it through SQL > > statements...that would be cool! > > There is ... at least, with MS there is. Head to > http://msdn.microsoft.com/ and search for "Text ISAM" to get you a > start... and if you get it to work, please lemme know... i wrestled with that freaking thing forever... i ended up reading the text stream and splitting on my delimiters... yeah, clunky, but it was a shits-n- giggles project... for some reason, even though the driver seemed to work, my scripts could never pull the data from the text file... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu May 23 22:47:01 2002 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Thu May 23 22:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: david, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: David Bindel > > I am trying to set up my IIS web server to let anonymous > users in, but it keeps asking me for a username and > password. If I choose not to enter this information (by > clicking the cancel button, obviously), it returns this > error: > > HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource > Internet Information Services ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< moving folders and files in and out of your webroot? running in to problems where attempting to access these folders and/or files and you getting a username/password dialog? that's because these folders and files don't have the "everyone" group assigned security rights to them. so, add the "everyone" group. right-click the most top-level object that's not assigned to the "everyone" group, choose properties. go to the security tab. click the add button. find the "everyone" group from the list above and it to the list below. ok your way out. From king_galen at hotmail.com Thu May 23 23:53:01 2002 From: king_galen at hotmail.com (KGIII) Date: Thu May 23 23:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NoSpam Timid Question that might make me owe a tip :) References: <8271078986.20020524045630@student.tue.nl> Message-ID: > > I've formatted your tip(s) in the correct format for you. It should be > self-explanatory : > Much thanks and I will save this email so I know how to do it the next time I should have something novel to offer. :) Galen From jjk3 at msstate.edu Thu May 23 23:53:09 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Thu May 23 23:53:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] overflow: auto problem Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If you take a look at the following page, http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html you'll see that in both IE and Mozilla, there's a horizontal scroll bar in the main news section, even though the content is restricted to a
of a set width and wraps automatically. Even more strangely, the horizontal scrollbars in IE and Mozilla are each of different lengths. Any tips on how to fix this? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPO3HCn880CLOJa2eEQItqQCghgCNKD/oMcMwTMqYEGfRGZ8OnmEAnjK5 THf6xsJOHncscl1oY/+OodrH =Wjmi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Anthony at Baratta.com Fri May 24 00:16:01 2002 From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta) Date: Fri May 24 00:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523221241.02bcce90@baratta.com> At 08:47 PM 5/23/2002, .jeff wrote: > > >moving folders and files in and out of your webroot? running in to problems >where attempting to access these folders and/or files and you getting a >username/password dialog? > >that's because these folders and files don't have the "everyone" group >assigned security rights to them. so, add the "everyone" group. Jeff... I strongly disagree that you need everyone access to perform routine IIS serving of files. My recommended setup it to remove the Everyone Group Access rights and setup Administrator with Full Access and setup the IIS User Account with Read only Access. For IIS to serve static and dynamic pages, the IIS User Account only needs Read access to the directories and files. --- Anthony Baratta President Keyboard Jockeys "Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative." From jjk3 at msstate.edu Fri May 24 00:41:00 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Fri May 24 00:41:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] overflow: auto; Problem (revised) Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ok, ok, so I figured out the IE problem (missing "), but Mozilla still insists on having a horizontal scrollbar where one isn't needed. Any help? The page is http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPO3SXH880CLOJa2eEQJoSgCeIU7Vvj5Ttlh1wdA7bxMt+eGKhnAAni0q X56hPZTtUKjKmr6X7eEBrNQo =/U89 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From peter at johansson.org Fri May 24 01:02:01 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Fri May 24 01:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] UTF-8/FormMail/PHP headaches In-Reply-To: <20020523141656.B25471@doxdesk.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 May 2002, Andrew Clover wrote: > UTF-8 encodes all extended characters as a character code between 0xC0 and > 0xFF followed by a number of characters in the range 0x80 to 0xBF (the > number depends on the first character). So a simple check is to see if there > are any 0xC0-0xFF characters not followed by 0x80-0xBF, or any 0x80-0xBF > characters not preceded by an 0xC0-0xFF. In either case you know you don't > have UTF-8 and you can try a different encoding. Thanks alot for this thorough explanation Andrew, it really shed some light on the problem for me. Too bad though that the browsers don't send the charset as supposed, it would make life so much easier when using scripts like this on multilingual sites (and on other sites as well of course). But thanks to your post I should be able to tackle the problem in a somewhat more elegant way. Regards, Peter From mpember at phreaker.net Fri May 24 01:09:01 2002 From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton) Date: Fri May 24 01:09:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Directory Sync Message-ID: <200205240607.g4O67rF04877@mail015.syd.optusnet.com.au> I've been using PHP was my language of choice for all my server control tasks. With a bit of spare time and a lot of cut and paste, it is possible to perform most simple tasks. Tasks currently performed using PHP include: - daily archiving of data folders (only is changed in previous 24 hours) - archiving of all emails - processing of various program logs into a MySQL database - creation of ISO image when server backups reach > 650mb - starting and stopping of win2k services By combining this with the Task Scheduling options available, it is possible to perform these task automatically at required times. I've been looking into colatting the various tidbits into a more structured layout. If you're interested, I'm more then willing to lend a hand. ---- Michael Pemberton mpember at phreaker.net ICQ: 12107010 From muinar at gmx.net Fri May 24 01:15:01 2002 From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r) Date: Fri May 24 01:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP send email with images *embedded* In-Reply-To: <20020523205043.8835.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020523195207.022b4860@mail.msk.ch> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020524080948.01cfde40@mail.gmx.net> At 22:50 23.05.02, you wrote: >You need to know how to creat a MIME-compliant message for attachments. > Either read the RFCs and compose the mail yourself, or there are many >libraries for this (phpclasses.websapp.com) and PEAR. Or just google >for "MIME PHP class" or something similar. Everything clear so far. Where I'm stuck is, when the reciepient gets the html message, the img src should contain the path to his local attachment folder. I need to know how to reference to the images, so the mail client replaces the server path by the client path. Any hints? From mark at cyberfuddle.com Fri May 24 01:20:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Fri May 24 01:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error References: Message-ID: <3CEDDB1A.6090406@cyberfuddle.com> David Bindel wrote: > I am trying to set up my IIS web server to let anonymous users in, but it > keeps asking me for a username and password. If I choose not to enter this > information (by clicking the cancel button, obviously), it returns this > error: > > HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource > Internet Information Services > > I have had this problem before, but only when I had tried to browse the site > using Mozilla. Now even Internet Explorer won't let me in without a > password. > > Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, could you point me in the right > direction to fix this? Ummm, have you tried checking out what's *in* the ACL? Could be you're denying all TCP/IP or something. Course, that doesn't explain why it only blocked Mozilla at first. -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From rob at bunnyfoot.com Fri May 24 01:33:00 2002 From: rob at bunnyfoot.com (rob) Date: Fri May 24 01:33:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Accessible Multimedia Message-ID: <002e01c202ec$a2fb22a0$1300030a@bunnyfoot.com> Please find below an invitation to attend the UK's first Accessible Multimedia forum. I would be grateful if you could forward this e-mail to members of your organisation who are interested in accessibility issues, multimedia and learning technology. Thank you for your assistance. Robert Stevens An Invitation to attend the Accessible Multimedia Forum Thursday 30 May, 1:30 - 4:30 PM, London W1 More details at www.bunnyfoot.com/forum An introduction to accessible multi-media - demonstrating the benefits to all of this powerful technology. Short talks, demonstrations and Q&A from our speaker panel: Julie Howell -Campaigns Officer (Accessible Internet) for the Royal National Institute for the Blind. Julie is an active member of the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative, has advised the UK Government on its web design strategy, and worked with one of the world's most successful e-grocers, Tesco.com, to make its service accessible to disabled customers Fiona Garfield - star of one of BT's Bringing people together campaign. In the advert, Fiona plays Hannah, a secretary who is deaf, using an office videophone on her first day in a new job. She is using it for a gossipy chat with a friend at home and you know the rest (if not view the accessible video of the advert www.bunnyfoot.com/forum). When not in front of the camera, Fiona is a production manager for Remark, a young, vibrant company dealing with all aspects of television/video production, multi-media and the internet. Terrence Charles-McLean, has an almost unique perspective of how empowering technology can be. Fully sighted until his mid twenties, Terrence suffered a severe head trauma which made him completely blind. During this time he gained expertise in operating a wide range of adaptive technologies. After 13 years, he started to spontaneously regain his sight and now three years later he holds a full UK drivers license. He has incredible insight into the worlds of blind and partially sighted Internet users. Dr Jon Dodd, holds a doctorate in Visual and Computational Neuroscience from Oxford University and is the Technical Director at Bunnyfoot. He is widely experienced at producing accessible sites and advising companies on how to achieve the benefits provided by universal design. He will be demonstrating effective uses of the different multimedia technologies. Robert Stevens, business graduate experienced in working in the American and European technology markets and Commercial Director at Bunnyfoot. He will be talking about how accessibility can be employed to reach international markets through automatic translation and closed captions. Alexander Scott (tbc), head of web design at the Royal National Institute for the Deaf, will be talking about how accessible multimedia files are being used in the www.togetheritworks.org.uk , sponsored by the RNID and Barclays bank. The forum is on Thursday 30 May, 1:30 - 4:30 PM, London W1 More details are available at www.bunnyfoot.com/forum I hope you will be able to attend and look forward to meeting you there. Yours sincerely, Robert. Robert Stevens Bunnyfoot - Usability & Accessibility Specialists Tel: + 44 1235 838514 www.bunnyfoot.com rob at bunnyfoot.com Accessible Multimedia Forum 30 May London W1 Learn something new, meet interesting people Details at: www.bunnyfoot.com/forum Robert Stevens Bunnyfoot - Usability & Accessibility Specialists Tel: + 44 1235 838514 www.bunnyfoot.com rob at bunnyfoot.com Accessible Multimedia Forum 30 May London W1 Learn something new, meet interesting people Details at: www.bunnyfoot.com/forum From evolt at david.us-lot.org Fri May 24 01:55:01 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Fri May 24 01:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] overflow: auto; Problem (revised) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020524075524.7ddf4fb9.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:47 -0500 "Joel Konkle-Parker" wrote: > Ok, ok, so I figured out the IE problem (missing "), but Mozilla > still insists on having a horizontal scrollbar where one isn't > needed. > > Any help? The page is http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html My copy of Mozilla (RC2 with Debian patches) doesn't add a horizontal scrollbar. Theory (i.e. wile guess): earlier versions of Mozilla didn't recalculate the flow of text to fit the narrower box (narrowser because it had a scrollbar in it.) -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk Fri May 24 02:10:01 2002 From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (~kristina) Date: Fri May 24 02:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NoSpam Timid Question that might make me owe a tip :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <711088945.20020524080915@kfx-design.co.uk> Galen, on Friday, May 24, 2002, 12:25:01 AM, KGIII wrote: <:> > so low as that is my company's motto.) Basically is there a place > online that you all might recommend where I can put the jobs up for > bids or is it OK to do so (original posting only, all others can > come to my mail personally) in here? You seem to be some of the most <:> You could try posting it to www.freelancers.net or similar....? -- bfn ~kristina kristina at kfx-design.co.uk http://kfx-design.co.uk/ From Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk Fri May 24 03:13:01 2002 From: Julian.Scarlett at sheffield.gov.uk (Scarlett Julian (ED)) Date: Fri May 24 03:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] links moving in IE4 -- css bug?? Message-ID: Hi evolters I have a recurring problem that I just can't fix. The problem is that in IE4 my links in a css floated left div jump to the left when moused over. I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with my a: styles because there is no sizing or positioning attached to them, only font formatting. One thing I have noticed is that some other links in another floated div on the same page which are marked up as
  • do not jump. This is all a bit bizarre and although I have no objection to not coding for NS4.x I really would like to have my sites working in IE4. I'd really appreciate if some of the css experts on this list with access to IE4 could take a peek at http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/plan/index.htm . A working copy of the style sheet is at http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/education/plan/style/sop.css. Many thanks in advance. Julian Julian Scarlett Web Design & Document Management System Officer PPU Education Directorate Sheffield City Council The information in this email is confidential. The contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the addressee. If you are not the addressee, please tell us by using the reply facility in your email software as soon as possible. Sheffield City Council cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended please tell us as soon as possible. From simon at incutio.com Fri May 24 04:09:00 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Fri May 24 04:09:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML In-Reply-To: <034001c2028f$7ef8d210$87b6b7c7@compaq> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020524100157.02040b80@mail.incutio.com> At 12:24 23/05/02 -0700, Burhan Khalid wrote: >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >Hello Listees : > > All this talk about databasing has me thinking, what the advantages > of databases over say an XML file or a flat file for simple projects. I > had a collection of quotes in a database, which I moved to a flat file > (since it was, imo, overkill). When does data require the use of a > database? Does it have to do more with the content, or the > application? In your experience(s), have you ever had to move stuff away > from database to a simpler system(s)? I know lots of people go the other > route, but when would it be better to "downgrade"? Short of moving to a > host that doesn't have your favorite database, or for backup, are there > any other reasons to go to flat-filing? Actually I used to use databases for almost all of my PHP work but I have recently switched to using flat text files for smaller projects. The practical reason for this is that the web hosting provided by my University does not provide mySQL as standard (most of my current sites are university related and it makes sense to keep them on Uni hosting) but I have actually found that using flat files instead of a database can be /more/ productive than a database for many applications. The reason for this is simple - PHP object serialization. I have two very simple functions: serializeToFile($object, $filename) and unserializeFromFile($filename) - these allow me to quickly and easily store any PHP object (or array or other data structure) in a file somewhere. For small sites I have found this is all I need for persistant data storage and the fact that I am manipulating objects directly makes for much simpler code in administration sections and makes displaying information a breeze. One site I built recently ( www.bath.ac.uk/busu/ents/ ) uses only two lines to display a page (each page is stored as a serialized object): $pageObject = unserializeFromFile($requestedPageName'.dat'); $pageObject->display(); I find databases essential for complex or high traffic sites, but these days I find flat files (with serialized objects) are perfectly suited to smaller projects. Regards, Simon Willison From peter at johansson.org Fri May 24 04:19:00 2002 From: peter at johansson.org (Peter Johansson) Date: Fri May 24 04:19:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Tip: Cachability for dynamic websites Message-ID: Hi, I think I owe some tips so here's one to start with. When building dynamic websites, take a moment and think about if you can't reduce the bandwith/load on your server by sending a simple "Last-Modified"-header to the client. Often it's unnecessary to render a fresh page if nothing has changed since the user's last visit to your site. Figure out what element on the page that was last updated and use that when creating the "Last-Modified"-header. In PHP you could use something like this: $lastModified = gmdate("D, d M Y H:i:s \G\M\T", $timestamp); header('Last-Modified: ' . $lastModified); ./peter From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Fri May 24 09:15:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com) Date: Fri May 24 09:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] I need some help with Asp 2.0 Message-ID: <003e01c2032d$633451a0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] I'm in a bind. I know that there is asp code to detect browser settings and other assorted things. Is there any code or has anybody had to detect where the client is in the world? [/snip] Most good ASP books have a section on how to detect browser information. There are things out there that will help (such as BrowserHawk), but they will not work for all of your site visitors. It has to do with the headers sent with each HTTP request as not all headers that are sent identify the area of origin. You can see this when you look at log files, there is usually a large amount of visitors from an unknown region. IP addresses handle some of the identification, but not all. Overseas visitors are often the most problematic to track. HTH! Jay On any list, make sure to explain your problem as clearly as possible to insure the greatest possible number of replies (and perhaps solutions). It is pandemic on many lists, explanations of the problem are terse, responses are few, and the developer who submitted his original problem gets frustrated...perhaps even reposting the same problem over and over until a flame war erupts. Peace & knowledge. From ftarzwell at fayec.com Fri May 24 09:17:01 2002 From: ftarzwell at fayec.com (Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC)) Date: Fri May 24 09:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable drop down menu Message-ID: <3CEE4B31.1070107@fayec.com> Hi, A client of mine had a created on GoLive on a page and she was having problems with it so she asked me to replace it with a canned JS script. I found one at Dynamic drive that works on all browsers and which I had used before without problems. Unfortunately it seems to act up when too many items are added to the menu and the screen resolution is low. Can anybody point me to where I could find a scrollable drop down menu script? I haven't been able to find any through searches or checking on the well known sources for JS scripts. Thank you in advance, FayeC From joshua at waetech.com Fri May 24 09:22:00 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri May 24 09:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error References: Message-ID: <011501c20316$20af2bf0$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:47 PM Jeff Wrote: > moving folders and files in and out of your webroot? running in to problems > where attempting to access these folders and/or files and you getting a > username/password dialog? > > that's because these folders and files don't have the "everyone" group > assigned security rights to them. so, add the "everyone" group. The profile that needs access to the files to avoid the login dialog is the web server, or whatever account the web server is using when an anonymous user visit. Make sure that account has access, not the Everyone account. -joshua From and at doxdesk.com Fri May 24 09:24:00 2002 From: and at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) Date: Fri May 24 09:24:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error In-Reply-To: <3CEDDB1A.6090406@cyberfuddle.com>; from mark@cyberfuddle.com on Fri, May 24, 2002 at 04:18:02PM +1000 References: <3CEDDB1A.6090406@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <20020524121456.A6755@doxdesk.com> Mark Gallagher wrote: > Course, that doesn't explain why it only blocked Mozilla at first. IIS defaults to allowing "Integrated Windows Authentication" on all sites (even if you change the WWW Master Properties, annoyingly). IE defaults to logging into servers in the Intranet Zone with your username and password automatically using Integrated Thing which Mozilla does not support. So if IUSR_xxx didn't have access to the files in the ACLs but your user on the intranet did, IE would show you the pages and Mozilla wouldn't. -- Andrew Clover mailto:and at doxdesk.com http://and.doxdesk.com/ From magnus at slackware.adsl.dk Fri May 24 09:25:01 2002 From: magnus at slackware.adsl.dk (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8stergaard?=) Date: Fri May 24 09:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site feedback Message-ID: <3CEE38B5.D8EBE342@slackware.adsl.dk> Hi, I'd like some feedback on this 'how to shop online' site. (Its in Danish). https://www.fi.dk/netbutikken/ I'd like to know what you think of it. Is it an okay site in the year 2002? I didn't make the original one, so I apologize for the (ab)use of the tag. Also the text in images is a leftover from the past. I have done my best to clean up the HTML, as I ported it from ASP to PHP. I kept the because of Netscape 4.7 Kind regards Magnus From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri May 24 09:25:10 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Fri May 24 09:25:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error In-Reply-To: <011501c20316$20af2bf0$4300a8c0@client1> Message-ID: Also, IIRC, the I_USR and I_WAM accounts are not added to the Everyone group by default. Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > The profile that needs access to the files to avoid the login > dialog is the > web server, or whatever account the web server is using when an anonymous > user visit. Make sure that account has access, not the Everyone account. > > -joshua From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri May 24 09:35:05 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Fri May 24 09:35:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi All, and especially Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov, this bright morning: Re "flat" files: I would just like to point out that APL or J (and any variants) file systems would refer to all systems in which the database (or data) is not nestable (or cannot be "enclosed") -- which means, in essence, you must worry about the LENGTH of a variable -- as "flat." Back when I was forced to convert a db I'd built in APL into SQL, your kind of db packages were all "flat" to an APL'er. If you "nest" a variable (within what you might think of as a cell, line, column, or 2-d array, or whatever), it becomes a variable with a size of 1. (I can't even correctly say "a length of 1," since in APL length implies at at least 2 dimensions!) One of the advantages of this, of course, is that your actual data can take up exactly as much room as it needs, and no more. You don't have to allocate to all fields the length the largest value will need. Does MySQL, SQL, or any other DB Package have this feature yet? I might consider (for the sake of conformity) switching to one if it did. Until then, I'll keep my development & manipulation within APL (or J), and convert the files (disclosing each element, building a "flat" file as APL or J think of it) to read them into a standard db (MySQL included with my Web host account) only when I have to. Cheers -- Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com Databases management systems (DBMS's -- Oracle, SQL, MySQL, Postgres, etc) have certain features that you can't get with a flat file or XML. When those features become important, you use a DBMS. When they are not important, you can probably downgrade. Some of the obvious reasons to use a DBMS: * Speed. Modern DBMS's build indices and have very advanced routines for getting you data as quickly as possible. * Management of relational entities. DBMS's are good at storing data about multiple, related entities. * Transaction and liveness guarantees. DBMS's allow you to protect your data -- back it up, be able to roll back unwanted transactions, ensure that a set of operations on data executes atomically, etc. I'm sure I'm missing a few important ones -- those were just the ones that came to mind. Others on the list will supply additions, I'm sure. (-: For your quote file, is speed a problem when you use a flat file? Do you have relationships between quotes you need to manage? Do you need a very reliable transaction-based system for maintaining your quotes? Ask yourself what important (for *your* app) features a DBMS is getting you that a flat file or XML wouldn't. Then ask yourself what it's costing you (in terms of maintaining the DBMS software, added code for your app, etc). Then ask yourself if those costs are worth the benefits you are getting. That's a decision only you are qualified to make. I shouldn't lump "flat file" and "XML" together -- to me, a "flat file" implies storage of entities of a single type, whereas "XML" is a structured format that stores multiple types of entities and their hierarchical relationship. In those contexts, XML can do what flat files cannot, but it is still best thought of as another kind of file format. FWIW, I almost always use a DBMS, because I almost always find that it does something I need to do that I wouldn't be able to do as well on my own - - but that might not be the case for your app. DBMS's are wonderful tools, but they are not always necessary and sometimes can add needless complexity to your application. From simon at incutio.com Fri May 24 09:36:42 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Fri May 24 09:36:42 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using Javascript to add tags to selected text in textarea In-Reply-To: References: <200205231603.RAA00854@ns.incutio.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020524153235.01f48d20@mail.incutio.com> At 14:11 23/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Simon- > >I don't know that you'll be able to do this with Mozilla, but it is >certainly possible with IE. Check this out: > >theSelection = document.selection.createRange().text; >document.selection.createRange().text = "*" + theSelection + "*"; > >This is straight off the phpBB forum software, at phpBB.com. HTH! Thanks, that works a treat in IE - in fact I've expanded it slightly to make sure it only works inside text areas (the basic code will add tags to text selected anywhere on the page): I think I'll have to give up on the Mozilla implementation. It seems that Mozilla has a document.getSelection() method which can grab the selected text but there is no equivalent to Microsoft's textrange object through which you can manipulate the currently selected area. Thanks for the help, Simon Willison From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 09:47:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 09:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C238@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I sent this earlier and did not see it come through. If it did, I apologize about the repost... Is it possible to host a page on one domain (www.foo.com) and that will set a cookie which can be read on another domain (www.bar.com)? If so, how do I do it in ASP? I tried, but could not succeed. Thanks, Josh From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri May 24 09:50:01 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Fri May 24 09:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C238@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: Josh- As far as I know this is impossible because of certain security requirements for cookies. A cookie can only be read by the domain on which it was set and only by a sub-domain if so specified when the cookie was set. You cannot set a cookie for an external domain nor can you read a cookie from a different domain other than the current one. HTH! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > Is it possible to host a page on one domain (www.foo.com) and > that will set > a cookie which can be read on another domain (www.bar.com)? If > so, how do I > do it in ASP? > > I tried, but could not succeed. > > Thanks, > Josh From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk Fri May 24 09:50:08 2002 From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth) Date: Fri May 24 09:50:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] (no subject) Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F010C4176@BOOTROS> Hi Carol, > One of the advantages of this, of course, is that your > actual data can take up exactly as much room as it needs, > and no more. You don't have to allocate to all fields the > length the largest value will need. Does MySQL, SQL, or > any other DB Package have this feature yet? Of course they do, and have done for many many years. CREATE TABLE testTable (testField varchar(23)) You now have a variable-length column, which will take 1 to 23 chars and store them using only the space necessary. AIUI there are performance benefits to using fixed-length columns, so if you know that all data will be the same length (e.g. MD5 hashes of 32 characters), then it makes sense to use CHAR instead of VARCHAR. Cheers Jon From rthigpen at nc.rr.com Fri May 24 09:50:17 2002 From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen) Date: Fri May 24 09:50:17 2002 Subject: [thelist] Directory Sync References: <00f301c2024d$81a2c260$8d00a8c0@comp1> Message-ID: <3CEE533A.4030603@nc.rr.com> I've been using a utility called Beyond Compare from Scooter Software . Thirty bucks for a single user license. It basically takes the Visual Diff concept up to the directory level. It also includes a file-level comparison/synching tool. Makes synching even non-identical directory structures a breeze. Very handy for migrating changes through the tiers (dev-staging-prod). --rt Olly wrote: > > I want to syncronise two folders full of websites on a pair of networked PCs From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri May 24 09:51:01 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Fri May 24 09:51:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: (I sent this earlier but it didn't come through either, so I also apologize for a repost! I'm just that deperate) Hi all- I've been stumped on a query for the last 20 minutes so I'm hoping someone can help me out here. What I have is a setup like this: myTable: article_id, paragraph_id, sort_order There can be multiple paragraphs per article, and they are ordered (through the article) by sort_order. Now for some reason the program I used to import a bunch of articles has given a lot of these articles non-incremental sort_orders, so one article might show up like this: 1,1,1 1,2,1 1,3,1 1,4,1 So article 1 has 4 paragraphs, and they're all sorted as paragraph #1. This is no good for obvious reasons! ;) What I need to do is get a list of all the articles (article_id for each) which have this problem (the sort_order being 1 and only 1). Trouble is that EVERY article in the table (all 5300 of them) has at least one sort_order = 1, so I need to single out the articles that ONLY have a sort_order of 1 for every paragraph. I thought something like this might work but it just returns some arbitrary number of articles... select article_id from paragraphs where sort_order = 1 group by article_id having count(article_id) > 1 rudy, anyone, help! =) I'm gonna continue to play around with this. Thanks in advance! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net From simon at incutio.com Fri May 24 09:55:00 2002 From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison) Date: Fri May 24 09:55:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Using Javascript to add tags to selected text in textarea In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020524153235.01f48d20@mail.incutio.com> References: <200205231603.RAA00854@ns.incutio.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020524154755.01fd0080@mail.incutio.com> At 15:35 24/05/02 +0100, I wrote: I think I'll have to give up on the Mozilla implementation. It seems that >Mozilla has a document.getSelection() method which can grab the selected >text but there is no equivalent to Microsoft's textrange object through >which you can manipulate the currently selected area. Looks like I spoke too soon. I've just discovered that the object returned by document.getSelection() in Mozilla is a "Selection" object which can be further manipulated. Documentation on this page: http://www.pbwizard.com/Articles/Moz_Range_Object_Article.htm My problem now is that if I select some text in a text box and then click on a button outside the text box in Mozilla the text is unselected (due to my selection of the button). This is preventing me from running the code to process the selection as the act of hitting the button cancels the selection I want to use :( The code I am playing with at the moment is as follows:
    If you want to do a quick experiment with HTML, CSS or JavaScript without having to create a whole new HTML document head over to www.w3schools.com and use their "Try it" feature - this provides you with a textarea to enter HTML on the right and a frame where the code you have entered will be displayed on the right. It's a great tool for trying things in a hurry. Direct link: http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_headers From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri May 24 09:57:01 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Fri May 24 09:57:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: Hi all- I've been stumped on a query for the last 20 minutes so I'm hoping someone can help me out here. What I have is a setup like this: myTable: article_id, paragraph_id, sort_order There can be multiple paragraphs per article, and they are ordered (through the article) by sort_order. Now for some reason the program I used to import a bunch of articles has given a lot of these articles non-incremental sort_orders, so one article might show up like this: 1,1,1 1,2,1 1,3,1 1,4,1 So article 1 has 4 paragraphs, and they're all sorted as paragraph #1. This is no good for obvious reasons! ;) What I need to do is get a list of all the articles (article_id for each) which have this problem (the sort_order being 1 and only 1). Trouble is that EVERY article in the table (all 5300 of them) has at least one sort_order = 1, so I need to single out the articles that ONLY have a sort_order of 1 for every paragraph. I thought something like this might work but it just returns some arbitrary number of articles... select article_id from paragraphs where sort_order = 1 group by article_id having count(article_id) > 1 rudy, anyone, help! =) I'm gonna continue to play around with this. Thanks in advance! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu Fri May 24 09:57:08 2002 From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean German) Date: Fri May 24 09:57:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] [SQL] deleting records from associated tables Message-ID: Howdy, I'm working with MS-SQL 2000, which does have cascading referential integrity constraints, which just happens to be just the thing I need. Once again, not only have you answered the question I asked, you answered the question I meant to ask =) I don't know if the relational integrity rules were defined when the child tables were created, but the database is well constructed, and I can add constraints with ALTER TABLE. It's nice to come into a company and get right to work, as opposed to cleaning up the last guy's mess. I flew out to a client Monday, my ears still haven't un-popped. This makes my whole head and it's usual functions feel a little bit off kilter. Thanks again, Sean G. --- rudy wrote: > > the central table is tblTracking, with the > > records to be deleted in tblTrackingDeletions. > > hi sean > > that's good, and shows the designer was thinking > > > Other tables are joined with tblTracking by foreign key. > > so, um, do you have relational integrity in your database? From mail at jasoncartwright.com Fri May 24 09:58:01 2002 From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright) Date: Fri May 24 09:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C238@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <000e01c20332$8324cb70$0100a8c0@jason> This may help you - http://makeashorterlink.com/?C11421EE Jason www.jasoncartwright.com > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Feingold Josh S > Sent: 24 May 2002 15:46 > To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 09:58:09 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 09:58:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C23A@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > A cookie can only be read by the domain on > which it was set Chris - Thanks for the reply. I was looking at the Netscape docs and it was unclear to me if I could. Hopefully, if you are wrong, someone will reply... Take care, Josh From muinar at gmx.net Fri May 24 09:59:01 2002 From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r) Date: Fri May 24 09:59:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP send email with images *embedded* In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020524080948.01cfde40@mail.gmx.net> References: <20020523205043.8835.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20020523195207.022b4860@mail.msk.ch> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020524165604.00a8b1e0@mail.gmx.net> Problem solved. At 08:12 24.05.02, you wrote: >At 22:50 23.05.02, you wrote: > >>You need to know how to creat a MIME-compliant message for attachments. >> Either read the RFCs and compose the mail yourself, or there are many >>libraries for this (phpclasses.websapp.com) and PEAR. Or just google >>for "MIME PHP class" or something similar. > >Everything clear so far. Where I'm stuck is, when the reciepient gets >the html message, the img src should contain the path to his local >attachment folder. > >I need to know how to reference to the images, so the mail client replaces >the server path by the client path. From chrismi at glasshaus.com Fri May 24 09:59:10 2002 From: chrismi at glasshaus.com (Chris Mills) Date: Fri May 24 09:59:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Scrollable drop down menu Message-ID: Hiya Faye, I work for a web-development orientated publishing house called glasshaus - we have a book out that deals exclusively with implementing cross-browser compatible menus of varying different types. The book is $19.99, but the code covered in it is available for free at and you can also see some of the menus in action on the "Usable Web Menus" site gallery (available via the same URL). I hope this helps - if you have any more questions, just holler. cheers, CHRIS MILLS Commissioning Editor glasshaus web professional to web professional +44 (0)121 687 4144 http://www.glasshaus.com/ >Hi, >A client of mine had a created on GoLive on a page and she was having >problems with it so she asked me to replace it with a canned JS script. >I found one at Dynamic drive that works on all browsers and which I had >used before without problems. >Unfortunately it seems to act up when too many items are added to the >menu and the screen resolution is low. >Can anybody point me to where I could find a scrollable drop down menu >script? >I haven't been able to find any through searches or checking on the well >known sources for JS scripts. >Thank you in advance, >FayeC From muinar at gmx.net Fri May 24 10:03:01 2002 From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r) Date: Fri May 24 10:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site feedback In-Reply-To: <3CEE38B5.D8EBE342@slackware.adsl.dk> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020524165635.00a8e370@mail.gmx.net> Really nice and clean! I'd consider using the orange color from the ball in the logo for links as well - would add some life to the blue-green palette. No display probs on IE6 / win Mike At 14:57 24.05.02, you wrote: >I'd like some feedback on this 'how to shop online' site. (Its in >Danish). > >https://www.fi.dk/netbutikken/ > >I'd like to know what you think of it. Is it an okay site in the year >2002? From morbus at disobey.com Fri May 24 10:08:03 2002 From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff) Date: Fri May 24 10:08:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] Request for Perl Code Reviewers / Bug Hunters? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524110835.02353810@mail.totalnetnh.net> Mmkay. I'm looking Perl people to lend an extra pair of eyeballs to a largish program (2000+ lines), in the hunt for idiocies, dumb Morbusisms, and bugs I haven't discovered, errors I haven't catered to, or what have you. It's a non-paying gig, but it's open source software, so I'll certainly include your name in shining lights somewhere. Contact me offlist if you're interested. If you're coding a Perl program that uses its own lib/ directory, or really *any* relative subdirectory, then you'll do yourself some good to look into a module called "FindBin": # where are we? use FindBin qw($Bin); BEGIN { unshift(@INC,"$Bin/lib") } Instead of "use lib" or "use Cwd", FindBin will determine the full path to your script, not just the current working directory. Using FindBin will stop this stuff from happening: # program works happily. cd /usr/bin/program ./program.pl # program fails due to not finding # a lib directory in a statement like # "use lib 'lib'" or my $dir = getcwd; cd /tmp /usr/bin/program/program.pl -- Morbus Iff ( i'm the droid you're looking for ) Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ Tech: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 - articles and weblog icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 10:08:12 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 10:08:12 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C23B@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > This may help you - > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?C11421EE > Jason - That's exactly what I was looking for... Thanks, Josh From eric.d.means at boeing.com Fri May 24 10:08:20 2002 From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D) Date: Fri May 24 10:08:20 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6E7B@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Blessing [mailto:webguy at mail.rit.edu] > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:00 AM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] sql query help > > I thought something like this might work but it just returns some arbitrary > number of articles... > > select article_id from paragraphs > where sort_order = 1 > group by article_id > having count(article_id) > 1 How about Select article_id from paragraphs Where not exists (select distinct article_id from paragraphs where sort_order > 1) That will filter out any and all articles that have any non-1 sort order paragraphs. It will return articles with only one paragraphs, but it's at least a step in the right direction. From gbird at cambridge.org Fri May 24 10:10:01 2002 From: gbird at cambridge.org (Graham Bird) Date: Fri May 24 10:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies In-Reply-To: <20020523204806.1E665C012@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: Hi, This may seem off topic, but it's something I need to ask. I work as the only real "web designer" for an old school publishing company. The web team amounts to three people - my manager is a marketing person, and we have an assistant. There is also a team of 3 or 4 ASP developers who build and maintain internet and intranet apps. The promotional print design department is 8 or 9 strong. They come under the Communications Director's remit (he's an old school printie), and he is now pushing to absorb control of the design of the website. The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a year ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy". The course had associated Dreamweaver with Quark Xpress in their minds. Our Director (we come under Business Development) is resisting, but the Communications Dept is very strong. So far, the changes that have come into force are that the Senior Designer in Communications has been given the responsibility for the "on-line visual design, brand and image". We still have the final say in terms of "functionality". Eventually though, I can see that we are going to be swallowed up. Part of the reason this has come about is that the print designers are scared that they're being left behind. In response to this, they asked if they could start working on the promotional "micro-sites" we build for some of our key products. This has progressed under my close supervision, but not as it should have. The printies have been drawing up designs in Quark and then handing them over to a freelancer to "translate" their designs into HTML. Not only is this a little odd - it means that they are learning nothing. They have "done" 4 or 5 jobs so far. I fear that because I am neither a developer nor what the print designers see as a real "designer", I will eventually (maybe sooner than I think) be left without a place here. As well as general web design, I am responsible for our Web Design Guidelines and their enforcement, our Accessibility policy and it's guidelines, compliance with W3C standards, and I am also the sole voice in the organisation for usability. I am good at what I do and take pride in our output. How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why potentially handing the website over to a department of print designers with very little experience is near insanity? Sorry for the long post (and perhaps for the hint of panic), Thanks for any advice, Graham From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Fri May 24 10:11:00 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Fri May 24 10:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP vs TSQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <128103007326.20020524134838@student.tue.nl> Hello Oren, OL> Really? Yes, it's not the procedure that costs time it's the connection time. Stored procedures are compiled and stored in the database and are therefor at least as fast as ASP and you'll always need only one connection, which is the time-consuming bit. OL> The only way to know for sure is to code both and benchmark. That's the only way to find out. I'm a MySQL man so I can't do it myself but I'd like to hear the results. -- michiel OL> -----Original Message----- >> ... perhaps I would be better off just passing the array through >> to a stored procedure and allowing it to loop through it. >> Resulting in one call to the database, rather then repeated ones. >> Would this be a good idea? OL> hi norman OL> yes OL> evidence, while anecdotal, suggests significant savings OL> makes for cleaner code, too OL> rudy -- Best regards, Michiel mailto:M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl From chris.price at stl.org Fri May 24 10:19:04 2002 From: chris.price at stl.org (Chris Price) Date: Fri May 24 10:19:04 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site feedback Message-ID: Magnus I've looked at it on IE5 MacOS9 The 4 images at the top of the page are missing The links don't have the standard underline. That's OK, but in their absence I would like to see some rollover efffect or something to give me a little feedback or look they are links. Otherwise the site looks neat and clean and at home in 2002. Good first impression -- Chris chris.price at stl.org > ---------- > From: Magnus ?stergaard > Reply To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 13:57 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Site feedback > > Hi, > > I'd like some feedback on this 'how to shop online' site. (Its in > Danish). > > https://www.fi.dk/netbutikken/ _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ From M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl Fri May 24 10:23:01 2002 From: M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl (Michiel Trimpe) Date: Fri May 24 10:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Database vs. Flat file vs. XML In-Reply-To: <000301c2029c$29a1d2a0$6801a8c0@neonreactor> References: <000301c2029c$29a1d2a0$6801a8c0@neonreactor> Message-ID: <58115830054.20020524172221@student.tue.nl> Hello John, Once again, PERL rules! Just use the DBD::AnyData module in conjunction with DBI to ... tadaa use SQL statements to manage flat-file databases. I wish there was a way to define a flat file as a 'table' and select/update/insert rows from it through SQL statements...that would be cool! I've read something on this list about a similar thing for ASP but that isn't my field. -- Best regards, Michiel mailto:M.B.Trimpe at student.tue.nl From genghis at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 10:30:01 2002 From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar) Date: Fri May 24 10:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Graham Bird > Sent: 24 May 2002 11:42 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies > > How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in > Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why > potentially handing > the website over to a department of print designers with very little > experience is near insanity? I wouldn't bother. Get the hell out while you have the comfort of a paying salary to fund the search. Darwin'll get them in the end. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu Fri May 24 10:30:14 2002 From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean German) Date: Fri May 24 10:30:14 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: Chris, That's a good one. What you need is the article_id where the sort_order is 1 and there are more than one records with that sort_order. Part of the issue is joining the table with itself to compare sort_orders. I'm thinking something along the lines of: SELECT article_id FROM paragraphs WHERE (SELECT count(sort_order) FROM paragraphs as a, paragraphs as b WHERE a.article_id = b.article_id AND a.sort_order = b.sort_order) > 1 /* more than one record with equal article_id and equal sort_order AND sort_order =1 /* that sort_order should be 1 Or something along those lines. HTH =) Sean G. --- Chris Blessing wrote: > myTable: article_id, paragraph_id, sort_order > > There can be multiple paragraphs per article, and they are ordered (through > the article) by sort_order. > > Now for some reason the program I used to import a bunch of articles has > given a lot of these articles non-incremental sort_orders, so one article > might show up like this: > > 1,1,1 > 1,2,1 > 1,3,1 > 1,4,1 > > So article 1 has 4 paragraphs, and they're all sorted as paragraph #1. This > is no good for obvious reasons! ;) > > What I need to do is get a list of all the articles (article_id for each) > which have this problem (the sort_order being 1 and only 1). Trouble is > that EVERY article in the table (all 5300 of them) has at least one > sort_order = 1, so I need to single out the articles that ONLY have a > sort_order of 1 for every paragraph. > > I thought something like this might work but it just returns some arbitrary > number of articles... > > select article_id from paragraphs > where sort_order = 1 > group by article_id > having count(article_id) > 1 > From mail at redhotsweeps.com Fri May 24 10:34:01 2002 From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty) Date: Fri May 24 10:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP mail headers problem.... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524103045.02081970@redhotsweeps.com> I am having problems with PHP mail headers. I am successfully getting the MIME-Version and Content-type, but when I insert them into the forwarded email message, the headers show within the email itself. Below is the code I am using. // To email address if(substr($lines[$i], 0, 2) == "To"){ $To = substr($lines[$i], 4, strlen($lines[$i])); eregi("([A-Z0-9\.\-]+@[A-Z0-9\.\-]+\.[A-Z\.]+)", $To, $To); }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 4) == "From"){// From email address $From = substr($lines[$i], 6, strlen($lines[$i])); eregi("([A-Z0-9\.\-]+@[A-Z0-9\.\-]+\.[A-Z\.]+)", $From, $From); }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 7) == "Subject"){// Email subject $Subject = substr($lines[$i], 9, strlen($lines[$i])); }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 12) == "MIME-Version"){// Email subject $Mime_Version = substr($lines[$i], 14, strlen($lines[$i])); }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 12) == "Content-Type"){// Email subject $Content_Type = substr($lines[$i], 14, strlen($lines[$i])); } if(IsSet($Mime_Version)){ $Mime_Version = "MIME-Version: $Mime_Version\r\n"; } if(IsSet($Content_Type)){ $Content_Type = "Content-type: $Content_Type\r\n"; } $to = "$user_email[0]"; $subj = "$Subject"; $msg = "$Message"; $headers = "From: $From[1]\n"; $headers .= "$Mime_Version\n"; $headers .= "$Content_Type\n"; mail($to, $subj, $msg, $headers); This is what the email looks like. Return-Path: Received: (from mail at localhost) by redhotsweeps.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27003; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:23:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:23:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200205240223.VAA27003 at redhotsweeps.com> To: XXXXXXX at redhotsweeps.com Subject: test From: XXXXXXX at redhotsweeps.com Status: Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed test 1234 Can anyone give me any tips? Thanks CDitty From chris.price at stl.org Fri May 24 10:44:01 2002 From: chris.price at stl.org (Chris Price) Date: Fri May 24 10:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies Message-ID: >The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a year > ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy". The course > had associated Dreamweaver with Quark Xpress in their minds.< > I was part of a design-for-print team and we did a 2 day course in Dreamweaver. We were very impressed and were keen to develop our web skills. When I contacted the instructor about a difficulty I was having it turned out he lacked even basic html skills. I worked out the solution myself by comparing my code with that of a professionally designed site. Impressions can be very misleading. The other designers have abandoned any idea of pursueing web design as the process is so far removed from working in Quark. > why it is important, and why potentially handing > the website over to a department of print designers with very little > experience is near insanity?< > In my experience in design for print I am aware that I need to understand the print process that I am designing for. It is likely that a print designer will not have an adequate understanding of how they're design will appear in someone elses browser. -- Chris chris.price at stl.org _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri May 24 10:49:01 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Fri May 24 10:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site feedback In-Reply-To: <3CEE38B5.D8EBE342@slackware.adsl.dk> References: <3CEE38B5.D8EBE342@slackware.adsl.dk> Message-ID: <1022256342.7819.133.camel@yafa> Magnus, Like Mike said, adding a bit of that orange to the links on top would tighten things up really well. Come to think of it, I bet if you added that lil' bit of orange to all pages it would brighten things up a bit and bring the bottom and top of the pages together. Personally I'd like to see more screen space used. I'm looking at the site at 1280*1024 resolution and 1200*1000 screen space and there is too much white space in the wrong areas. Maybe you can fiddle with a more fluid layout? Also, images are killing loading times. Both Opera and Konqueror tend to be pretty fast, but it took them a while to load all the images. Maybe keeping the top bar as an image and relegating the rest of the top links to text would help. (DSL line here, and still slowish) I took a look at the mark-up as well. This might not be important to you, but wrapping the text at somewhere between 80 (preferrable) and 120 (workable) chars. Opera 6 and Konqueror 3 Resolution: 1280*1024 (1200*1000) Red Hat Linux 7.3 kernel 2.4.18-4 Want to speed up serving web pages on a Linux/Apache system? Look into TUX from Red Hat. It is an in-kernel web server for Linux. Analysis (HTML): http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27615EE Analysis (PDF): http://makeashorterlink.com/?V39614EE It might just give you what you are looking for. Samir M. Nassar -- RedConcepts.NET -- Open Solutions Design Syndicate Open Source, Public Service -- the Art and Craft of Webdesign http://redconcepts.net -- http://os-ds.com 'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds' From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 10:49:09 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri May 24 10:49:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D7@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi list, I must be overlooking something, but here's my problem. I'm trying do this: SELECT user FROM tblUser When I access the asp page I get, "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Invalid column name 'user'. But wait here's the kicker, there IS a column name named 'user' in that table. Any suggestions? Rob From mwarden at mattwarden.com Fri May 24 10:52:05 2002 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri May 24 10:52:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D7@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: On May 24, Rob Smith had something to say about [thelist] losing my mind >-- >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > >Hi list, > >I must be overlooking something, but here's my problem. I'm trying do this: > >SELECT user FROM tblUser > >When I access the asp page I get, "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL >Server]Invalid column name 'user'. > >But wait here's the kicker, there IS a column name named 'user' in that >table. > >Any suggestions? try changing the name of the column. "user" is a reserved word in a lot of dbs. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Fri May 24 10:52:12 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Fri May 24 10:52:12 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D7@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <004901c2033a$ff0f1440$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] SELECT user FROM tblUser When I access the asp page I get, "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Invalid column name 'user'. But wait here's the kicker, there IS a column name named 'user' in that table. [/snip] Sure it's not case sensitive? Jay From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 10:56:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri May 24 10:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D8@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] its actually named something totally different. I've scaled down my example to read easy >Hi list, > >I must be overlooking something, but here's my problem. I'm trying do this: > >SELECT user FROM tblUser > >When I access the asp page I get, "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL >Server]Invalid column name 'user'. > >But wait here's the kicker, there IS a column name named 'user' in that >table. > >Any suggestions? try changing the name of the column. "user" is a reserved word in a lot of dbs. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From mrg at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 10:58:01 2002 From: mrg at members.evolt.org (matt g) Date: Fri May 24 10:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D7@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: USER is a SQL reservered word. Try renaming the columnn. matt g. > From: Rob Smith > SELECT user FROM tblUser > > When I access the asp page I get, "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL > Server]Invalid column name 'user'. > > But wait here's the kicker, there IS a column name named 'user' in that > table. From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 10:59:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 10:59:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Post Header Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C23D@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Is there a way to set the ASP Post Header? I thought that I might try using: response.addheader ("Post","info=Here is my information.") Has anyone tried this before? If this won't work can anyone suggest a way that will allow me to post data from one ASP page to another. Thanks, Josh From evolt at rjf.ca Fri May 24 11:02:01 2002 From: evolt at rjf.ca (Bob Fowler) Date: Fri May 24 11:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind References: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708D7@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <01df01c2033c$351d02d0$2301a8c0@remaxescarpment.com> > I must be overlooking something, but here's my problem. I'm trying do this: > > SELECT user FROM tblUser Rob, As the previous posters have said, User is a reserved word. So, in that case, just put brackets around it: SELECT [user] FROM tblUser Bob. From David at softv.net Fri May 24 11:03:00 2002 From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net) Date: Fri May 24 11:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] losing my mind Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB80FADF2@SOFTVMAIL> If you can't name if for whatever reason, wrap it in []'s SELECT [user] FROM tblUser From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 11:07:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri May 24 11:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] found my mind Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708DB@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I found the error. Thanks for your help -----Original Message----- From: David at softv.net [mailto:David at softv.net] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:08 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] losing my mind If you can't name if for whatever reason, wrap it in []'s SELECT [user] FROM tblUser -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From szh at hotpop.com Fri May 24 11:12:00 2002 From: szh at hotpop.com (Syed Zeeshan Haider) Date: Fri May 24 11:12:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] OT: what to do with virus warning? References: <20020523204920.3C1433A70@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <003501c2029f$d2716e60$a60587cb@haidersystem> Hi Peter, This virus is indeed very dangerous and intelligent. It is just using your e-mail address to send it-self from some other computer. To trace the sender computer, one should look at "return-path" in the headers of the viral mail. It can be explained in this way: One of your friends has got W32.Klez.H at mm on his machine. This virus creates a blank e-mail with two viral attachments, chooses an address from the computer's address book and puts it in "From" field and sends the mail using your friends account and machine. Sometimes this virus grabs your address also from your friend's address book to put in "From" field. It uses attractive subject lines like "A good tool for you" etc. It uses pornographic subjects also. I have been receiving many e-mails with this virus that is why I know a lot about it. It often disables the anti-viruses. Somebody in TheChat called it anti-antivirus virus. It also prevents live update of AV. I don't know much about Mcaffee AV because I am using Norton AV. But both Mcaffee and Norton (http://www.symantec.com/) have put small chunks on their web sites to fight out this virus independent of the original AV on the system. Therefore, you can use anyone. I used Norton AV and downloaded it from http://www.symantec.com/. It sized 132KB. Now do following things: 1. Downloaded AV chunk from any site Mcaffee or Norton and run it on your machine as instructed by the company. 2. Alert all of your friends and relatives about this virus and ask them to download and run AV chunks. If they have virus, it is most probable that this virus is sending it-self using your address from their computers and the recipients will blame you for this as they will see your address in "From" field. If you have this virus then maybe your computer is also sending viral mails using others' addresses. Hope this helps. Syed Zeeshan Haider. http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:38:31 -0400 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org From: PeterV Subject: [thelist] OT: what to do with virus warning? Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Hi, I received an email stating that I had sent a virus to someone. It said: "Please contact your system administrator. The scanned document was QUARANTINED. Virus Information: The attachment HREF.pif contained the virus W32.Klez.H at mm and could NOT be repaired." Now I have the latest Mcaffee virus definitions in my virus program and it scans all outgoing messages. I *am* getting lots of virusses lately, about 3 a day, with email titles that seem scaringly familiar. I am worried I am sending everyone virusses now! Any tips? Peter Running Apache on Windows for local development and having problems? Go to your httpd.conf file, and change the loglevel line to "LogLevel debug". This will add more detail to your error logs so you can find out why apache won't start or your virtualhosts won't work. From roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com Fri May 24 11:12:13 2002 From: roger.newbrook at kmsoftware.com (Roger Newbrook) Date: Fri May 24 11:12:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies Message-ID: graham wrote "As well as general web design, I am responsible for our Web Design Guidelines and their enforcement, our Accessibility policy and it's guidelines, compliance with W3C standards, and I am also the sole voice in the organisation for usability. I am good at what I do and take pride in our output." i think you have to be a little more vocal in singing your own praises :) the problem with usability and accessibility issues etc is that when you do the job well, your effort kind of becomes invisible (which, if you think about it, is how these aspects of Human Computer Interaction should be). usability is, after all, concerned with making interaction as painless as possible. joe/jane public notice when UI issues have been ignored and site navigation/interaction becomes difficult and confusing, but not often when it is done well you could incorporate usability issues in client review documentation, ask them directly how they find the system/site you have worked on. also if you have any form of Quality Management System you could also flag up work you have done regarding cross platform/browser compatibility, perhaps in the form of a checklist. thereby making visible and tangiable, the tasks that go unnoticed by the casual browser (possibly including your managers and the pretenders to your throne). it's a problem, i know, but drawing people's attention to the matters you consider important in your work activities might help make your bosses aware of what you actually do :) hth roger From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com Fri May 24 11:16:01 2002 From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard) Date: Fri May 24 11:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] found my mind In-Reply-To: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708DB@smtmb.thermon.com> Message-ID: <005f01c2033e$56b3b9f0$8102a8c0@niigziuo4ohhdt> [snip] I found the error. Thanks for your help [/snip] Care to share the solution, in the event one of us runs up against it? Jay On mailing lists, such as this one, sharing the solution to problems is sure to be appreciated by list subscribers. It makes the list's archive more informative no matter how small the problem and provides a wealth of information when multiple solutions are proposed and useful. From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 11:18:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 11:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Color Comparison Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C22F@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi all. I have created a color comparer and would appreciate some feedback. http://www23.brinkster.com/feingold/color/colors.asp Thanks, Josh From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 11:18:10 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 11:18:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C230@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Is it possible to host a page on one domain (www.foo.com) and that will set a cookie which can be read on another domain (www.bar.com)? If so, how do I do it in ASP? I tried, but could not succeed. Thanks, Josh From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 11:26:00 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (Rob Smith) Date: Fri May 24 11:26:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] found my mind Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708DF@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] The solution was easily solved had I slowed down a little and examined the query a little closer, Jay. Any beginner in ASP could have figured it out. The solution was that I was calling the incorrect table with the correct column name. Don't ask the list for a possible solution when you don't know the problem. Rob [snip] I found the error. Thanks for your help [/snip] Care to share the solution, in the event one of us runs up against it? Jay -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From simplecypher at bitshift.ws Fri May 24 11:33:01 2002 From: simplecypher at bitshift.ws (kevin D. white) Date: Fri May 24 11:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C230@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <3CEE6BE4.10805@bitshift.ws> Feingold Josh S wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Is it possible to host a page on one domain (www.foo.com) and that will set > a cookie which can be read on another domain (www.bar.com)? If so, how do I > do it in ASP? > > I tried, but could not succeed. > And it's a good thing that it didn't work. Security holes aside, Cookies are supposed to be set and read only from the originating domain. This has zero to do with ASP. It's restriction of Cookies. _____________ : : kevin D. white : im simplecypher : email simplecypher at bitshift.ws :_____________________ From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 11:37:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (=?utf-8?B?Um9iIFNtaXRo?=) Date: Fri May 24 11:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFt0aGVsaXN0XSBBU1AgQ29va2llIFNldHRpbmcgUXVlc3Rp?= =?utf-8?B?b24=?= Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708E0@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I like your website! Rob _____________ : : kevin D. white : im simplecypher : email simplecypher at bitshift.ws :_____________________ From genghis at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 11:39:01 2002 From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar) Date: Fri May 24 11:39:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question In-Reply-To: <3CEE6BE4.10805@bitshift.ws> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of kevin D. white > Sent: 24 May 2002 17:36 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question > > Feingold Josh S wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Is it possible to host a page on one domain (www.foo.com) and > that will set > > a cookie which can be read on another domain (www.bar.com)? If > so, how do I > > do it in ASP? > > > > I tried, but could not succeed. > > > > And it's a good thing that it didn't work. Security holes aside, > Cookies are supposed to be set and read only from the originating domain. > > This has zero to do with ASP. It's restriction of Cookies. True. That said, and purely to demonstrate the mechanism, mind... I do have something for you which explains how MSN does it. You must use this only for good, never for evil, etc etc ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From pmeeks at email.msn.com Fri May 24 11:40:00 2002 From: pmeeks at email.msn.com (Pat Meeks) Date: Fri May 24 11:40:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Site feedback References: <3CEE38B5.D8EBE342@slackware.adsl.dk> Message-ID: <002b01c20341$92350120$924983d0@shadow> Magnus: The site looks good. I think the colors are definitely 2002 and I really like the clean layout. It is very easy to see what the site is about, how it works and also how to place an order even though I only know a few words in Danish. Using IE5.5. HTH, Pat > https://www.fi.dk/netbutikken/ > > I'd like to know what you think of it. Is it an okay site in the year > 2002? From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 11:49:01 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 11:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C240@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > That said, and purely to demonstrate the mechanism, > mind... I do have something for you which explains > how MSN does it. Thanks, but the cookie I am sending is close to 2K so I need to send it via a POST or Cookie. Josh From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com Fri May 24 11:52:01 2002 From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (=?utf-8?B?S2F0aGxlZW4gSGV5dGluaw==?=) Date: Fri May 24 11:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFt0aGVsaXN0XSBSRTogW3RoZWxpc3RdIEFTUCBDb29raWUg?= =?utf-8?B?U2V0dGluZyBRdWVzdGlvbg==?= Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27A74C@nj10-exchange.winebow.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Smith [mailto:rob.smith at thermon.com] > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 12:39 PM > To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: [thelist] RE: [thelist] ASP Cookie Setting Question > I like your website! Thanks! Which one? -- Kath ... work --> www.winebow.com home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com -- From rob.smith at thermon.com Fri May 24 12:02:01 2002 From: rob.smith at thermon.com (=?utf-8?B?Um9iIFNtaXRo?=) Date: Fri May 24 12:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFt0aGVsaXN0XSBSRTogW3RoZWxpc3RdIFJFOiBbdGhlbGlz?= =?utf-8?B?dF0gQVNQIENvb2tpZSBTZXR0aW5nIFF1ZXN0aW9u?= Message-ID: <1AF1AE25FC71D411BDE100D0B774E5CA020708E1@smtmb.thermon.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It was actually directed to Kevin's www.bitshift.ws (hint: look at the source code :-) it made me laugh) www.cyber-kat.com looks good. I got the Cyber Patrol big red hand when I tried to enter www.winebow.com. But I'm sure it's good too. on cyber-kat, what font did you use on the side divs? Rob > I like your website! Thanks! Which one? -- Kath ... work --> www.winebow.com home --> www.cyber-kat.com --> topkat at cyber-kat.com -- -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From mark at markgroen.com Fri May 24 12:08:01 2002 From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen) Date: Fri May 24 12:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies In-Reply-To: References: <20020523204806.1E665C012@relay.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CEE0FC9.2414.3E38BB@localhost> Content-type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="Alt-Boundary-13497.4077755" --Alt-Boundary-13497.4077755 > The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a > year ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy". > The course had associated Dreamweaver with Quark Xpress in their > minds. I was in the printing industry for almost twenty years before getting into web development. In the printing industry I was a press operator, production manager and "fire putter outer" not a graphic designer and I'm not a web "designer" now either, although I am a web "developer". Buying Dreamweaver and creating a site only to find it crashed my friends' computer and took forever to load on anothers modem (less than 56k them days) convinced me there was more to this than "design" and off I went to school for a couple years to actually learn HTML, JavaScript, etc. > Our Director (we come under Business Development) is resisting, but > the Communications Dept is very strong. So far, the changes that have > come into force are that the Senior Designer in Communications has > been given the responsibility for the "on-line visual design, brand > and image". We still have the final say in terms of "functionality". I give my clients this same responsibility, and it actually works to my advantage. In my cases, the clients have had a pretty good idea on what they wanted their site to look like and what it should contain and I simply take their efforts and translate that into clean, fast loading images and code. This is done by intense listening and understanding what they *really* want, a skill picked up from the printing industry while putting out those inevetable fires. > Eventually though, I can see that we are going to be swallowed up. Nope, not if you play your cards right, see below: > > Part of the reason this has come about is that the print designers are > scared that they're being left behind. In response to this, they asked > if they could start working on the promotional "micro-sites" we build > for some of our key products. This has progressed under my close > supervision, but not as it should have. The printies have been drawing > up designs in Quark and then handing them over to a freelancer to > "translate" their designs into HTML. Not only is this a little odd - > it means that they are learning nothing. They have "done" 4 or 5 jobs > so far. This is the crux of the problem. It should be you that is translating these designs to HTML, it's not hard once you become a developer but as you say: > I am responsible for our Web Design > Guidelines and their enforcement, our Accessibility policy and it's > guidelines, compliance with W3C standards, and I am also the sole > voice in the organisation for usability. I am good at what I do and > take pride in our output. You must know some HTML then right? Did the freelancer produce error free code to the W3C specs or not? If not then bring that up with the directors. Again, I would suggest you take on the task of producing the code for these projects and if you don't know how then yes, your time is limited unless you get some schooling in a hurry. > How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in > Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why potentially > handing the website over to a department of print designers with very > little experience is near insanity? I'm not sure how you would do this without sounding like a whiner. Not be to a hard ass, but it sounds like you've had a pretty cushy job for a while if your job description is correct and it's time to pull up your britches and save your company some money by taking on the extra responsibility of doing the work the freelancer is doing. If you don't, and it was my company hanging onto a "designer" when there was plenty of designers and graphic artists around and freelancers willing to take that to design to code then yep, you are out the door. Not the answer you wanted to read probably, but you ARE going to be history with that company if you don't change your job title/description. You have already been left out of the loop in a big way from the sounds of it and it sure as heck looks like it will be permanent soon if the freelancer has done a few jobs. You need to expand your skill set, and if it is already there have your job title/description reflect that - in a hurry. mark at markgroen.com --Alt-Boundary-13497.4077755

    > The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a
    > year ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy".
    > The course had associated Dreamweaver with Quark Xpress in their
    > minds.
    I was in the printing industry for almost twenty years before getting into web development. In the printing industry I was a press operator, production manager and "fire putter outer" not a graphic designer and I'm not a web "designer" now either, although I am a web "developer". Buying Dreamweaver and creating a site only to find it crashed my friends' computer and took forever to load on anothers modem (less than 56k them days) convinced me there was more to this than "design" and off I went to school for a couple years to actually learn HTML, JavaScript, etc.

    > Our Director (we come under Business Development) is resisting, but
    > the Communications Dept is very strong. So far, the changes that have
    > come into force are that the Senior Designer in Communications has
    > been given the responsibility for the "on-line visual design, brand
    > and image". We still have the final say in terms of "functionality".
    I give my clients this same responsibility, and it actually works to my advantage. In my cases, the clients have had a pretty good idea on what they wanted their site to look like and what it should contain and I simply take their efforts and translate that into clean, fast loading images and code. This is done by intense listening and understanding what they *really* want, a skill picked up from the printing industry while putting out those inevetable fires.

    > Eventually though, I can see that we are going to be swallowed up.
    Nope, not if you play your cards right, see below:

    >
    > Part of the reason this has come about is that the print designers are
    > scared that they're being left behind. In response to this, they asked
    > if they could start working on the promotional "micro-sites" we build
    > for some of our key products. This has progressed under my close
    > supervision, but not as it should have. The printies have been drawing
    > up designs in Quark and then handing them over to a freelancer to
    > "translate" their designs into HTML. Not only is this a little odd -
    > it means that they are learning nothing. They have "done" 4 or 5 jobs
    > so far.
    This is the crux of the problem. It should be you that is translating these designs to HTML, it's not hard once you become a developer but as you say:

    >  I am responsible for our Web Design
    > Guidelines and their enforcement, our Accessibility policy and it's
    > guidelines, compliance with W3C standards, and I am also the sole
    > voice in the organisation for usability. I am good at what I do and
    > take pride in our output.
    You must know some HTML then right? Did the freelancer produce error free code to the W3C specs or not? If not then bring that up with the directors. Again, I would suggest you take on the task of producing the code for these projects and if you don't know how then yes, your time is limited unless you get some schooling in a hurry.

    > How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in
    > Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why potentially
    > handing the website over to a department of print designers with very
    > little experience is near insanity?
    I'm not sure how you would do this without sounding like a whiner. Not be to a hard ass, but it sounds like you've had a pretty cushy job for a while if your job description is correct and it's time to pull up your britches and save your company some money by taking on the extra responsibility of doing the work the freelancer is doing. If you don't, and it was my company hanging onto a "designer" when there was plenty of designers and graphic artists around and freelancers willing to take that to design to code then yep, you are out the door.

    Not the answer you wanted to read probably, but you ARE going to be history with that company if you don't change your job title/description. You have already been left out of the loop in a big way from the sounds of it and it sure as heck looks like it will be permanent soon if the freelancer has done a few jobs. You need to expand your skill set, and if it is already there have your job title/description reflect that - in a hurry.





    mark at markgroen.com
    --Alt-Boundary-13497.4077755-- From joshua at waetech.com Fri May 24 12:08:10 2002 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Fri May 24 12:08:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help References: Message-ID: <01a901c20345$5fc72a70$4300a8c0@client1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Blessing" Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 10:54 AM > select article_id from paragraphs > where sort_order = 1 > group by article_id > having count(article_id) > 1 Chris, select article_id from paragraphs group by article_id, sort_order having count(*) > 1 Give this query a shot. It should return any articles that have ANY sort_orders repeated more than once. -joshua From yousuf at priest.com Fri May 24 12:11:00 2002 From: yousuf at priest.com (Yousuf Harichara) Date: Fri May 24 12:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: <20020524171022.99083.qmail@mail.com> Maybe this: select article_id, sum(sort_order) from paragraphs group by article_id having sum(sort_order) = 4 1 am assuming the articles you are not interested in will definitely have a sort_order greater than 1 Yousuf > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Blessing [mailto:webguy at mail.rit.edu] > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:00 AM > > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: [thelist] sql query help > > > > I thought something like this might work but it just returns some > arbitrary > > number of articles... > > > > select article_id from paragraphs > > where sort_order = 1 > > group by article_id > > having count(article_id) > 1 > -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From ashok at magicalkenya.com Fri May 24 12:17:01 2002 From: ashok at magicalkenya.com (ashok at magicalkenya.com) Date: Fri May 24 12:17:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] win32 perl, maxlength for @argv? Message-ID: >in win2k the properties window I get for the shortcut has these tabs: >General, Shortcut, Options, Font, Layout, Colors, Security > >Options has familiar looking options - cursor size, display options, >command history (buffer size, number of buffers), edit options -- but I >don't see anywhere to actually change the environment memory?? does this >live somewhere else ? Oops , i had some old .pif files on my win2k comp (it was orig. upgraded from win98) - these used to have a memory setting. In win2k the command buffer is fixed at around 2046 bytes. so you are going to run in to a problem if you have a large command line like : c:\>abc.exe file1.txt file2.txt file3.txt...... file100.txt windows as such does have a single command line limitation length of 32K , the cmd.exe imposes a much smaller limit of 2046 bytes if you are going above the 32k limit you better rethink the way your app is written.... i would recommend that you split up your commands into sequential calls (that might mean changing the way your program works though...) something like this in a batch file (i assume your files are named sequentially ...) for %%d in (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11...) do abc.exe file%d.txt this will automatically execute it against the files 1 by 1 like this : c:\>abc.exe file1.txt c:\>abc.exe file2.txt .... .... c:\>abc.exe file100.txt On the other hand , you could also try passing the command line from a vbscript (wsf windows scripting file) program or a proper vb executable......which might overcome the command line length limitation Set WshShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") 'take in the command line file name parameters as an InputBox 'or read in the parameters from an external text file.... strCmdLine = ...the command line params as mentioned above... ' Start the program that is placed in sAddOn WshShell.Run "c:\\abc.exe" & strCmdLine the wshshell.run command executes your app under the context of the cscript.exe interepretr and as such IMO should not suffer from the 2046 byte command.com and cmd.exe limitations.... HTH ashok From cparker at swatgear.com Fri May 24 12:22:00 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Fri May 24 12:22:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07814C@ati-ex-01.ati.local> hi. i'm referring to the apache (i think it's apache) url's that look like this... hello.asp/5/index as opposed to... hello.asp?id=5§ion=index (i think that's how it works) my questions is, can IIS 5 do this? with the redesign of our main website coming up i'd like to make it as easy as possible for the search bots to index it. and this is one way i've heard helps a lot in the battle of bots vs. dynamic websites. thanks for all the help! chris. p.s. no we can't switch to another web server. From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri May 24 12:23:00 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Fri May 24 12:23:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] find and replace text in multiple files under Linux Message-ID: <1022262004.7720.323.camel@yafa> Hey gang, I have a 20+ page project and doing a find and replace on each page is tedious. So I come to thee o evoltian oracles in hope of findding a solution. Do you guys know of/have a script or binary that can do file and replace on multiple files? Samir M. Nassar -- RedConcepts.NET -- Open Solutions Design Syndicate Open Source, Public Service -- the Art and Craft of Webdesign http://redconcepts.net -- http://os-ds.com 'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds' From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri May 24 12:30:01 2002 From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa) Date: Fri May 24 12:30:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies Message-ID: <20020524172937.57847.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com> > How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in > Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why > potentially handing > the website over to a department of print designers with very little > experience is near insanity? I agree with John 100% - GET OUT. I have a print design background and worked in very similar conditions. You will not be able to get across the real importance of what you do to these people, particularly those old school folks. To them, design is design - you won't change their opinion. What you WILL seem like, (to them) is some kind of an elitist who is putting them down, no matter how "tactful" you try to be. Case in point is the 4-5 jobs 'done' in Quark. They are pretty proud of themselves for that one trust me. You sound like you have good skills, so start looking for a better gig. Trust me - once you get out of there and get a job at a place that understands your role, you will wonder WHY you didn't get out ages ago. Good luck Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From ashok at magicalkenya.com Fri May 24 12:36:01 2002 From: ashok at magicalkenya.com (ashok at magicalkenya.com) Date: Fri May 24 12:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring Message-ID: there are possibly 2 ways to do that : 1) you could build in such urls by trapping http 404 in an asp page , parsing the URL and building the actual asp?stuff out of it (you will have to write the code) and then doing a Server.Transfer to that page.... 2) you could also write an isapi filter dll (it can turn out to be a bit of rocket science) which could possibly read from a settings file (containing settings similar to that in htaccess...) and translate incoming url requests to actual asp?stuff.... if you are running the most upto date stuff you could take a look at ATLServer which is an easier way to write isapi dlls (i think it ships with the .net framework even though it doesnt use the .net runtime...) From r937 at interlog.com Fri May 24 12:37:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri May 24 12:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help Message-ID: <01c20349$8f4bca40$40e7059a@rudy> > select article_id > from paragraphs > group by article_id, sort_order > having count(*) > 1 pretty close, joshua, but your group by list is not the same as your select list, so most databases will give a syntax error (mysql will give results but they aren't useful) chris, try select article_id, count(*) from paragraphs where sort_order=1 group by article_id having count(*) > 1 this returns article_d and number of sort_order=1 paragraphs if more than 1 rudy From dbindel at austin.rr.com Fri May 24 12:38:00 2002 From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel) Date: Fri May 24 12:38:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error In-Reply-To: <3CEDDB1A.6090406@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: MG > Ummm, have you tried checking out what's *in* the ACL? Could be you're MG > denying all TCP/IP or something. MG > Course, that doesn't explain why it only blocked Mozilla at first. To tell you the truth, I have no idea what ACL even. That's why I asked thelist. But I tried adding the Everyone group with read and now it doesn't ask me for my password. Thanks, David Bindel From dmah at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 12:45:03 2002 From: dmah at members.evolt.org (Dean Mah) Date: Fri May 24 12:45:03 2002 Subject: [thelist] find and replace text in multiple files under Linux In-Reply-To: <"from nassarsa"@redconcepts.net> References: <1022262004.7720.323.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <20020524114012.A1783@alice.cg.shawcable.net> With Perl you can do: perl -pi~ -e 's/foo/bar/' [files] from the command-line. 's/foo/bar/' is the Perl regexp substitution operator. A backup of the file should be saved as filename~. Dean On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 12:40:03PM -0500, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > I have a 20+ page project and doing a find and replace on each page is > tedious. > > So I come to thee o evoltian oracles in hope of findding a solution. > > Do you guys know of/have a script or binary that can do file and replace > on multiple files? > > > Samir M. Nassar From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri May 24 12:47:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Fri May 24 12:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] DB field length limits Message-ID: Hi, Jon -- and thanks for responding. In fact, your response makes it crystal clear that the DB packages STILL do NOT offer enclosure or nesting. When I use APL (or J, or variants), I don't have to set any limit on file field length (apart from hardware and OS limitations, of course). I can, therefore, take a sample text file some author sent me (for instance), and enclose it, and dump it into my nested n-dimensional array. Later, when I'm retrieving that author's sample text, I would disclose the whole file. If, for some inane reason, I needed to put the whole files into an ordinary DB package's field, I could either: [1] find the maximum length of the field and set up the field length in the DB package's to equal that, or [2] truncate the values of the disclosed "fields" and put those into a standard DB field. Your standard DB package won't be much use to back-end processing for a writers' site, handling text files -- unless I make the writers type (retype!) into a textarea or other controlled length thingie. (Ugh!) But MySQL will do, I think, in our fulfillment process, when handling simple, predictable things like addresses, names, money, etc. I would prefer to have this information online when we get to confirming orders and related processing, so my (probably enormous by then) off-line DB should be massaged to read into an ordinary MySQL db at that point. So now I have another question for MySQL persons: If I decide to rename all the fields in our online form (which I'm considering because the new FormMail does NOT sort alphabetically and, although I could do this as part of my processing, it's annoying (especially in checking for consistency across my forms!): [1] Are there characters to AVOID, such as underbars or dashes? [2] Are there rules, such as don't prefix field name with 0 or another number? Thanks a lot! (-8 Carol S. techwatcher at accesswriters.com > One of the advantages of this, of course, is that your > actual data can take up exactly as much room as it needs, > and no more. You don't have to allocate to all fields the > length the largest value will need. Does MySQL, SQL, or > any other DB Package have this feature yet? Of course they do, and have done for many many years. CREATE TABLE testTable (testField varchar(23)) You now have a variable-length column, which will take 1 to 23 chars and store them using only the space necessary. AIUI there are performance benefits to using fixed-length columns, so if you know that all data will be the same length (e.g. MD5 hashes of 32 characters), then it makes sense to use CHAR instead of VARCHAR. Cheers Jon From webguy at mail.rit.edu Fri May 24 12:47:09 2002 From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing) Date: Fri May 24 12:47:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] sql query help In-Reply-To: <01c20349$8f4bca40$40e7059a@rudy> Message-ID: Rudy, Yousuf, Josh, Sean, Eric -- thanks a ton for the help. It turns out I screwed up the db somehow and all 120,000 rows were set to sort_order = 1, hence my problem getting any real expectant results back. But I will remember this for future tips/questions. :D Have a great weekend! Chris Blessing webguy at mail.rit.edu http://www.330i.net > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of rudy > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:37 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thelist] sql query help > > > > select article_id > > from paragraphs > > group by article_id, sort_order > > having count(*) > 1 > > pretty close, joshua, but your group by list is not the same as > your select > list, so most databases will give a syntax error (mysql will give results > but they aren't useful) > > chris, try > > select article_id, count(*) > from paragraphs > where sort_order=1 > group by article_id > having count(*) > 1 > > this returns article_d and number of sort_order=1 paragraphs if > more than 1 > > > rudy > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From roselli at earthlink.net Fri May 24 12:48:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri May 24 12:48:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] find and replace text in multiple files under Linux In-Reply-To: <1022262004.7720.323.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <200205241747.g4OHlA8l005622@leo.evolt.org> > From: "Samir M. Nassar" [...] > Do you guys know of/have a script or binary that can do file and > replace on multiple files? a lot of the beefier text editors can do it... i use NoteTab (even paid for a license, i like it that much)... it, and *many* others can do a search-n-replace across multiple files... hit download.com and see what they've got... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 12:48:09 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 12:48:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] find and replace text in multiple files under Linux Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C242@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > With Perl you can do: > > perl -pi~ -e 's/foo/bar/' [files] > > from the command-line. To do this download activeperl. http://www.activestate.com/Products/Download/Get.plex?id=ActivePerl Josh From info at windyhilldesign.com Fri May 24 12:48:16 2002 From: info at windyhilldesign.com (Heather Quinn) Date: Fri May 24 12:48:16 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies References: Message-ID: <3CEE7BED.3080909@windyhilldesign.com> Said director needs a new vision for his own future power and income, one that will keep his hands off the web side of things by showing him that the web can be beneficial to (and noncompetitive with) his new plans and projects. Re the project of using printies for web design, perhaps you could find a tactful way of rephrasing the metaphor that you are an architect, and the printies with the 2 days' DW training are building models of houses out of Legos. You could try something like taking the director and printies through a deconstruction seminar comparing the design, structure and UI features of the printed NY Times and nytimes.com, the more hands-on the better. Include demo'ing nytimes.com in 3 or more browsers and various resolutions, including some with style sheets set for a hypothetical visually-impaired user. Let the printies get inside the paradigm differences, be intimidated by the multidimensionality of the web. Print is high-res, high-control, 2D textured medium, ink and coatings, when it's done it's done, and when it's done it gets packaged up and distributed, and printies dust their hands of the project; web is low-res light that's anchored in the top left corner, flowing down and somewhat to the right, raggedly, with active link nodes that interconnect it dimensionally, web is never done, web is never under complete control, web's distribution ranges from explosive to ephemeral, with a single consistent quality: continual renegotiation, and successful web is based on ongoing feedback, analysis and rework sitting on a base of good architecture, design and backend implementation. Let director and printies see that the web can support printie dreams, by giving them a good case study of how this works. I suggest NY Times/nytimes.com because of its reputation as a strong communications company, and the fact that the NY Times has learned to use the web to widen its audience for print, and vice-versa, as well as to use the web to pretest subsets of new product ideas that are finally delivered in print, including books, posters, prints, etc. The web has helped repoint the NY Times so it's more in touch with its audience, and more immediately cognizant of the value it represents to its public. NY Times print and web operations seem to have developed a powerful synergy that makes the NY Times as a whole a more viable company. Graham Bird wrote: >The promotional print design department is 8 or 9 strong. They come under the Communications Director's remit (he's an old school printie), and he is now pushing to absorb control of the design of the website. >The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a year ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy"... > >Thanks for any advice, > >Graham > -- Cheers, Heather Quinn info at windyhilldesign.com http://www.windyhilldesign.com From kkearns at cisco.com Fri May 24 12:48:25 2002 From: kkearns at cisco.com (Katie Kearns) Date: Fri May 24 12:48:25 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies In-Reply-To: <20020524172937.57847.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020524103143.0226bbe0@vquill.com> At 10:29 AM 5/24/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I agree with John 100% - GET OUT. I have a print design background and >worked in very similar >conditions. You will not be able to get across the real importance of what >you do to these people, >particularly those old school folks. Does he have to? I mean, what's important isn't what the printies think of him, but what the guy who pays him thinks... > To them, design is design - you won't change their opinion. >What you WILL seem like, (to them) is some kind of an elitist who is >putting them down, no matter >how "tactful" you try to be. Case in point is the 4-5 jobs 'done' in >Quark. They are pretty proud >of themselves for that one trust me. Or, you can try educating them. I assure you, once they find out how hard it really is, they'll probably stop wanting to help. ;) Maybe you should point out whatever problems you see with what they're doing in a tactful way? Back yourself up with references. Maybe their site looks awful in some particular browser -- well, show them! -Katie From wade_lists at runstrong.com Fri May 24 12:55:01 2002 From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong) Date: Fri May 24 12:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Post Header In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C23D@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: on 5/24/02 8:58 AM, Feingold Josh S at Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov wrote: > Is there a way to set the ASP Post Header? I thought that I might try > using: > > response.addheader ("Post","info=Here is my information.") > > Has anyone tried this before? If this won't work can anyone suggest a way > that will allow me to post data from one ASP page to another. Can you tell us anything more about what you're trying to do? Usually the way to set POST headers is to, um, POST data to the page. You might be able to manually POST data by using the xmlhttp component, see: http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/110100-1.2.shtml Wade From wade_lists at runstrong.com Fri May 24 12:56:01 2002 From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong) Date: Fri May 24 12:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07814C@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: on 5/24/02 10:21 AM, Chris W. Parker at cparker at swatgear.com wrote: > hi. > > i'm referring to the apache (i think it's apache) url's that look like > this... > > hello.asp/5/index > > as opposed to... > > hello.asp?id=5§ion=index > > (i think that's how it works) > > my questions is, can IIS 5 do this? Check out: http://www.alphasierrapapa.com/products/portalpagefilter/ http://www.qwerksoft.com/products/iisrewrite/ (disclaimer: never used either, but, um, I plan to) Wade From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Fri May 24 13:03:00 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Fri May 24 13:03:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020524103143.0226bbe0@vquill.com> Message-ID: <3CEE8005.75219B36@lightbulbpress.com> Maybe you should suggest to their director that since they took that great class in Dreamweaver, and since of course they now know DW backwards and forwards, if they could do the mockups in Dreamweaver from now on, since it would save so much time and money for the company? Do it politely of course. But I guarantee you that he *thinks* they know alot more than they actually do, and that they're letting him think that. Does he even know they're doing the mockups in Quark after he paid for them to take the webdesign class? .matt Katie Kearns wrote: > Maybe you should point out whatever problems you see with what they're > doing in a tactful way? Back yourself up with references. Maybe their site > looks awful in some particular browser -- well, show them! From zaunere at yahoo.com Fri May 24 13:11:00 2002 From: zaunere at yahoo.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri May 24 13:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP mail headers problem.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524103045.02081970@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: <20020524181028.79641.qmail@web12801.mail.yahoo.com> Without wading through the regular expressions, I see when you generate $header you are using only "\n"... you need "\r\n" after every line of the header... and if you generate the body and header yourself, you need "\r\n\r\n" at the last header line. HTH, Hans Z. New York PHP http://nyphp.org --- CDitty wrote: > I am having problems with PHP mail headers. I am successfully getting > the > MIME-Version and Content-type, but when I insert them into the > forwarded > email message, the headers show within the email itself. Below is the > code > I am using. > > // To email address > if(substr($lines[$i], 0, 2) == "To"){ > $To = substr($lines[$i], 4, strlen($lines[$i])); > eregi("([A-Z0-9\.\-]+@[A-Z0-9\.\-]+\.[A-Z\.]+)", $To, $To); > }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 4) == "From"){// From email address > $From = substr($lines[$i], 6, strlen($lines[$i])); > eregi("([A-Z0-9\.\-]+@[A-Z0-9\.\-]+\.[A-Z\.]+)", $From, > $From); > }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 7) == "Subject"){// Email subject > $Subject = substr($lines[$i], 9, strlen($lines[$i])); > }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 12) == "MIME-Version"){// Email subject > $Mime_Version = substr($lines[$i], 14, strlen($lines[$i])); > }elseif(substr($lines[$i], 0, 12) == "Content-Type"){// Email subject > $Content_Type = substr($lines[$i], 14, strlen($lines[$i])); > } > > if(IsSet($Mime_Version)){ > $Mime_Version = "MIME-Version: $Mime_Version\r\n"; > } > if(IsSet($Content_Type)){ > $Content_Type = "Content-type: $Content_Type\r\n"; > } > > $to = "$user_email[0]"; > $subj = "$Subject"; > $msg = "$Message"; > $headers = "From: $From[1]\n"; > $headers .= "$Mime_Version\n"; > $headers .= "$Content_Type\n"; > mail($to, $subj, $msg, $headers); > > This is what the email looks like. > > Return-Path: > Received: (from mail at localhost) > by redhotsweeps.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27003; > Thu, 23 May 2002 21:23:51 -0500 > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:23:51 -0500 > Message-Id: <200205240223.VAA27003 at redhotsweeps.com> > To: XXXXXXX at redhotsweeps.com > Subject: test > From: XXXXXXX at redhotsweeps.com > Status: > > Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > test 1234 > > > Can anyone give me any tips? > > Thanks > CDitty > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov Fri May 24 13:11:09 2002 From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S) Date: Fri May 24 13:11:09 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Post Header Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C243@chm0010mb01> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Can you tell us anything more about what you're trying to do? > Usually the > way to set POST headers is to, um, POST data to the page. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I have an ASP page that is being hosted on Brinkster. It is generating some CSS which I would like to be able to use on my site Efeingold.com. I can't set a cookie, so my thought was to post the data from the Brinkster page to the efeingold page. Then I could read the post information on efeingold and set the cookie. Brinkster doesn't give any COM objects with their free account, just the basic ASP objects. If you have any ideas for me, I would be appreciative. Thanks, Josh From nets at searchtools.com Fri May 24 13:11:18 2002 From: nets at searchtools.com (nets at searchtools.com) Date: Fri May 24 13:11:18 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07814C@ati-ex-01.ati.local> References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07814C@ati-ex-01.ati.local> Message-ID: Excellent plan -- search engines will be much happier with your URLs. I like this article at on URL rewriting, which recommends using CF, a CGI, or the QASP product: I haven't seen much else that covers this for IIS. Avi At 10:21 AM -0700 5/24/02, Chris W. Parker wrote: >hi. > >i'm referring to the apache (i think it's apache) url's that look like >this... > >hello.asp/5/index > >as opposed to... > >hello.asp?id=5§ion=index -- Complete Guide to Search Engines for Web Sites and Intranets From wade_lists at runstrong.com Fri May 24 13:13:01 2002 From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong) Date: Fri May 24 13:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] DB field length limits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 5/24/02 10:46 AM, Techwatcher at techwatcher at accesswriters.com wrote: > Hi, Jon -- and thanks for responding. In fact, your response makes it > crystal clear that the DB packages STILL do NOT offer enclosure or > nesting. > > When I use APL (or J, or variants), I don't have to set any limit on > file field length (apart from hardware and OS limitations, of course). > I can, therefore, take a sample text file some author sent me (for > instance), and enclose it, and dump it into my nested n-dimensional > array. Later, when I'm retrieving that author's sample text, I would > disclose the whole file. If, for some inane reason, I needed to put the > whole files into an ordinary DB package's field, I could either: > [1] find the maximum length of the field and set up the field length in > the DB package's to equal that, or > [2] truncate the values of the disclosed "fields" and put those into a > standard DB field. > If you wanted to put the binary file, untouched, into the db, most (Oracle, SQL Server, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Access, etc.) dbs offer fields with BLOB (Binary Large OBject) datatypes. SQL Server's text datatype, for instance, offers a max length of 2^32 bytes - I hope none of your authors write that long! BLOB fields don't need to have their length specifically stated, because of how they work. Of course, access to BLOBs is generally slower than to varchar or char datatypes. That's why a good DBA will take time to understand the data they're planning to store and develop a schema that's optimized for storage and retrieval of the expected data. From cparker at swatgear.com Fri May 24 13:13:10 2002 From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker) Date: Fri May 24 13:13:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07814E@ati-ex-01.ati.local> > Check out: > http://www.alphasierrapapa.com/products/portalpagefilter/ > http://www.qwerksoft.com/products/iisrewrite/ i think the portal page filter looks like a better choice for me. i like the idea of less administration. thanks a lot. chris. From techwatcher at accesswriters.com Fri May 24 13:15:01 2002 From: techwatcher at accesswriters.com (Techwatcher) Date: Fri May 24 13:15:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Threatened by printies Message-ID: Hi, Grahame -- I suspect your concern will prove to be anything but off-topic as more professionals in other fields catch on to Web design. Here is what I recommend, for what it's worth: First, think about your job in terms of what FUNCTION you (and your group) provide the company, and potential future directions of the company. (Btw, I would agree with the change made so far, in that the Dir of Comm for your co. really should have the ability to standardize the company's "appearance" regardless of media/channel.) Second, your traditional print publisher is being badly squeezed by paper costs, postage, storage, and other overhead. On the other hand, the traditional publisher REALLY plays a very minor intermediary role, now, between author and "printer." (Think about it.) So, which direction are they likely to head for their survival, in the face of this economic and reduced-function pressure? They will need the Web -- but they may not understand the dangers. They will need to know what they can and cannot do online, safely. They may not be aware of what a dangerous environment the Web can be, for a publishing company. (The Web is global; copyright laws aren't, etc.) The first obvious step you can take towards job security is to learn everything there is to know about security online, so you can warn them of the various dangers. Next, I would encourage you to rethink your job, if your idea of Web design in any way revolves around the appearance of whatever your content is. After all, the Web was originally invented as a place to display content easily. (Then, mostly text, defined content-wise [sic].) The future will soon ("soon" in career terms!) lead us back to that. Non-CSS-compliant browsers WILL BE a thing of the past. Unless you are much older than your peers, that will happen when you still would prefer not to take early retirement. So, you need to think about (learn about?) another level of stuff entirely: the things documentation specialists normally specialize in (wait, you're in England, make that "in which documentation consultants normally specialise"). If concepts like "mutually exclusive and exhaustive category schema" (under whatever name your mind labels them) aren't in your mind, put them there. If you don't understand that content could be organized functionally, sequentially, and at different levels of abstraction, (not an exhaustive list), start thinking about it. Why would you choose one organisation, over the others? If you can handle just these two things (documentation subject matter, and security) and keep your knowledge current, you should remain a valuable member of their team long into the future. Cheers -- Carol Stein techwatcher at accesswriters.com Hi, This may seem off topic, but it's something I need to ask. I work as the only real "web designer" for an old school publishing company. The web team amounts to three people - my manager is a marketing person, and we have an assistant. There is also a team of 3 or 4 ASP developers who build and maintain internet and intranet apps. The promotional print design department is 8 or 9 strong. They come under the Communications Director's remit (he's an old school printie), and he is now pushing to absorb control of the design of the website. The print designers all went on a 2 day Dreamweaver course about a year ago. Some of them came back saying that web design was "easy". The course had associated Dreamweaver with Quark Xpress in their minds. Our Director (we come under Business Development) is resisting, but the Communications Dept is very strong. So far, the changes that have come into force are that the Senior Designer in Communications has been given the responsibility for the "on-line visual design, brand and image". We still have the final say in terms of "functionality". Eventually though, I can see that we are going to be swallowed up. Part of the reason this has come about is that the print designers are scared that they're being left behind. In response to this, they asked if they could start working on the promotional "micro-sites" we build for some of our key products. This has progressed under my close supervision, but not as it should have. The printies have been drawing up designs in Quark and then handing them over to a freelancer to "translate" their designs into HTML. Not only is this a little odd - it means that they are learning nothing. They have "done" 4 or 5 jobs so far. I fear that because I am neither a developer nor what the print designers see as a real "designer", I will eventually (maybe sooner than I think) be left without a place here. As well as general web design, I am responsible for our Web Design Guidelines and their enforcement, our Accessibility policy and it's guidelines, compliance with W3C standards, and I am also the sole voice in the organisation for usability. I am good at what I do and take pride in our output. How do I tactfully explain to our Directors (on my side and in Communications) what I do, why it is important, and why potentially handing the website over to a department of print designers with very little experience is near insanity? Sorry for the long post (and perhaps for the hint of panic), Thanks for any advice, Graham Cheers From ajlist at mindseye.com Fri May 24 13:16:01 2002 From: ajlist at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson) Date: Fri May 24 13:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1022264396.1506.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> > you could build in such urls by trapping http 404 in an asp page , parsing > the URL and building the actual asp?stuff out of it (you will have to write > the code) and then doing a Server.Transfer to that page.... -- I'm pretty certain that this is impossible in ASP, it works great in CF, but ASP can't do anything in a 404. > you could also write an isapi filter dll (it can turn out to be a bit of > rocket science) which could possibly read from a settings file (containing > settings similar to that in htaccess...) and translate incoming url > requests to actual asp?stuff.... > if you are running the most upto date stuff you could take a look at > ATLServer which is an easier way to write isapi dlls (i think it ships > with the .net framework even though it doesnt use the .net runtime...) -- or you could download a free one from here: http://www.pstruh.cz/ (check out URL replacer)... you can get source code for $30 I think... it works like a charm, does exactly what you want. HTH AJ From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com Fri May 24 13:31:05 2002 From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann) Date: Fri May 24 13:31:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: <1022264396.1506.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: -- I'm pretty certain that this is impossible in ASP, it works great in CF, but ASP can't do anything in a 404. Its defitely doable in ASP. Set IIS to send 404s to /404.asp[*], say . Then, you can do anything you want in 404.asp that you can on any other ASP page, such as rewriting the URL search-engine friendly and redirecting. * In IIS, open the website properties, go to Custom Errors. Open the listing for 404, and make it a URL - not file - and put the relative path to the 404 handler page, say, "/404.asp" (without qoutes). Then apply and exit. All 404s will go to that page, and you can parse the Querystring, I think, for the referred page (not sure if HTTP_REFERER will work) and perform any ASP functions you'd like. From eric.d.means at boeing.com Fri May 24 13:33:10 2002 From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D) Date: Fri May 24 13:33:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] Netscape Navigator 4 and downloading a perl-originated CSV Excel file Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B928019F6E7F@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com> I have a Perl CGI script that generates a comma-separated list of values for download as an Excel spreadsheet. The Perl script produces the following headers (not including the 200 OK header): Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=troublereports.csv Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Cache-control: no-cache Pragma: no-cache This is followed by a standard comma-separated list of values comprising troublereports.csv. In rational browsers (IE4+, Moz) the above works as expected, every time. However, NN4 is giving me problems (and I have to support it). The first time this request is executed, Navigator works fine; the spreadsheet is downloaded and opened in Excel, and works fine. The second, and any subsequent, time the request is executed without closing and reopening the browser, the spreadsheet comes out corrupted (for lack of a better word). Basically, all of the content is smushed together and presented in a single cell, as if the comma-delimiting weren't happening. Can anyone help me figure out why the second request is failing in NN4? It's not a problem with the code, as it generates the same exact response every time; NN4 is screwing up, not the CGI. Is there any workaround besides closing and reopening NN4 between each request? From wade_lists at runstrong.com Fri May 24 13:40:01 2002 From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong) Date: Fri May 24 13:40:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: <1022264396.1506.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: on 5/24/02 11:19 AM, Aaron Johnson at ajlist at mindseye.com wrote: > >> you could build in such urls by trapping http 404 in an asp page , parsing >> the URL and building the actual asp?stuff out of it (you will have to write >> the code) and then doing a Server.Transfer to that page.... > -- I'm pretty certain that this is impossible in ASP, it works great in > CF, but ASP can't do anything in a 404. If you have a custom 404 page, it's possible to run any kind of ASP code in it. Unfortunately, as soon as IIS redirects to its 404 handler page, it also sends out a 404 header, which means you can't send a useful header like 302 object moved or something. That's why the ISAPI filters you and I recommended are a better option. From wade_lists at runstrong.com Fri May 24 13:46:00 2002 From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong) Date: Fri May 24 13:46:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Post Header In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C243@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: on 5/24/02 11:10 AM, Feingold Josh S at Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > >> Can you tell us anything more about what you're trying to do? >> Usually the >> way to set POST headers is to, um, POST data to the page. > > Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I have an ASP page that is > being hosted on Brinkster. It is generating some CSS which I would like to > be able to use on my site Efeingold.com. I can't set a cookie, so my > thought was to post the data from the Brinkster page to the efeingold page. > Then I could read the post information on efeingold and set the cookie. xmlhttp, which is a standard microsoft component, should let you do just that. From ajlist at mindseye.com Fri May 24 13:49:01 2002 From: ajlist at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson) Date: Fri May 24 13:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1022266420.1506.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > * In IIS, open the website properties, go to Custom Errors. Open the listing > for 404, and make it a URL - not file - and put the relative path to the 404 > handler page, say, "/404.asp" (without qoutes). Then apply and exit. All > 404s will go to that page, and you can parse the Querystring, I think, for > the referred page (not sure if HTTP_REFERER will work) and perform any ASP > functions you'd like. > -- Course, it looks fugly when you do this... using your tip, if I try to access a page, say /aaron.asp, which doesn't exist, IIS will then redirect to /404.asp?404;http://myserver/aaron.asp Fugly. And what do you do then? Use the 404 to redirect to another page? so you'd end up with a connection workflow like this: user connects to http://myserver/aaron.asp IIS redirects user to using a 302 header http://myserver/404.asp user connects to http://myserver/404.asp 404.asp redirects to your custom page... Thats a lot of work on the server, more connections for the client, and pretty inefficient. Definitely technically possible, but is it a viable solution? IMHO, I don't think so. AJ > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com Fri May 24 14:11:01 2002 From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann) Date: Fri May 24 14:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring In-Reply-To: <1022266420.1506.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Yeah, this wouldn't be the most elegant way to do it. But then, the issue in question is to intentionally use 404s to redirect every page in a site - which is a hacked up architectural concept to begin with, not necessarily ASP per se. The way this should work, is, as has been mentioned, with IIS to intercept all request and translate it before ASP (or the concept of a 404) gets involved. If the question is, can ASP redirect from a custom 404 to another page by parsing through the querystring (even if it is fugly! No disagreement!) the answer is that it can. By the way - IIS 4 does return the full original querystring in Request.ServerVariables("QUERY_STRING") if you had to parse through it to rewrite the URL, I wasn't sure if/how it came through in my tip. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Aaron Johnson Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:54 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: RE:[thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring > > * In IIS, open the website properties, go to Custom Errors. Open the listing > for 404, and make it a URL - not file - and put the relative path to the 404 > handler page, say, "/404.asp" (without qoutes). Then apply and exit. All > 404s will go to that page, and you can parse the Querystring, I think, for > the referred page (not sure if HTTP_REFERER will work) and perform any ASP > functions you'd like. > -- Course, it looks fugly when you do this... using your tip, if I try to access a page, say /aaron.asp, which doesn't exist, IIS will then redirect to /404.asp?404;http://myserver/aaron.asp Fugly. And what do you do then? Use the 404 to redirect to another page? so you'd end up with a connection workflow like this: user connects to http://myserver/aaron.asp IIS redirects user to using a 302 header http://myserver/404.asp user connects to http://myserver/404.asp 404.asp redirects to your custom page... Thats a lot of work on the server, more connections for the client, and pretty inefficient. Definitely technically possible, but is it a viable solution? IMHO, I don't think so. AJ > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! > -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 14:31:00 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Fri May 24 14:31:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP Post Header References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C23D@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <008b01c20359$608189b0$d881dccf@compaq> How about a hidden form, and then javascript-ing the submit? Perhaps on an onload? Seems like the easiest way to get POST variables going. From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri May 24 14:37:01 2002 From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa) Date: Fri May 24 14:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS and Dragging in IE5 Message-ID: <20020524193615.7981.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone, This is my first real post to ask a question. I'm working on a project where we want to make some draggable controls, its IE5+ only. I'm using some of Danny Goodman's code, with the NN6/W3C DOM stuff taken out. It essentially works, but not the way I want it to. What I want to be able to do is to drag the "knob" even if your mouse comes off the target (the knob) or if you drag it too fast (it seems dragging the mouse too quick where it exceeds the width of the knob stops the drag - the evt.ClientX value). I want it to work more like your windows scroll bars as it were - you have some play with it once you click on it to drag it around. I don't know if you can attach files so I just pasted the code below (its not up on any site right now). So paste it in your own editor and load it if you want to see it -- its all self contained. You'll note I'm using VML as the objects to drag not DIVs...long story. That also is not part of the problem (same problem with DIVs). Thanks! Tom code below ================================================= 3D VML
    __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From nkle at lle.rochester.edu Fri May 24 14:56:01 2002 From: nkle at lle.rochester.edu (Natalie Klein) Date: Fri May 24 14:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] force bookmark url Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20020523172648.00bc16c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Is there a way to tell a browser to use a URL different from the one that appears in the address field when a user bookmarks your page without using a button in the body of the page or frames? Further explanation: We are going to use a random page loading script for our site index (basic content will be the same, just different images & captions based on a theme). The url that appears in the address bar is currently .../index01.html, .../index02.html etc. We would like our users to continue to have the random page load even after they bookmark the site. Any thoughts? Many thanks, Natalie Natalie Klein Software Development Group Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 240 East River Road Rochester, New York 14623-1299 Tel:585-275-8295 www.lle.rochester.edu From roselli at earthlink.net Fri May 24 15:10:02 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri May 24 15:10:02 2002 Subject: [thelist] force bookmark url In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020523172648.00bc16c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <200205242009.g4OK9I8l010755@leo.evolt.org> > From: Natalie Klein > > Is there a way to tell a browser to use a URL different from the one > that appears in the address field when a user bookmarks your page > without using a button in the body of the page or frames? not that i am aware of... thankfully... imagine the potential hassle from bookmarking an article on CNN only to have it go to the Time magazine site... > Further explanation: > We are going to use a random page loading script for our site index > (basic content will be the same, just different images & captions > based on a theme). The url that appears in the address bar is > currently .../index01.html, .../index02.html etc. We would like our > users to continue to have the random page load even after they > bookmark the site. Any thoughts? my initial thought is that you might want to reconsider how you serve up random pages... it sounds like a user gets redirected, whether by a server-side 302 header, or a client-side JS redirect... not only can that cause problems for search engines, you're completely reliant on having a whole buncha pages... is it possible to have one page that has randomly selected content stuffed into it from the server? for example, at algonquinstudios.com, we use one home page template that randomly pulls the details and image of a case study into the template, so even if you bookmark it, you're going to get new content each time... and there's no redirect, no JS, no client- side work at all... totally SE friendly, too... dunno if that helps any... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com Fri May 24 15:20:01 2002 From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt) Date: Fri May 24 15:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] force bookmark url References: <4.3.1.2.20020523172648.00bc16c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <3CEEA02F.B592301C@lightbulbpress.com> You could always use a nesting frame. so the indexRandom.html would be contained within an invisible, 100% frame that wouldn't be visible to the user but would be the index.html. Of course, if they right clicked within the frame and bookmarked it it wouldn't work ,but if they did it from the menu it would. Frames come with their own problems of course, but its a little bit of an oddball problem to begin with :) .matt Natalie Klein wrote: > Is there a way to tell a browser to use a URL different from the one that > appears in the address field when a user bookmarks your page without using > a button in the body of the page or frames? > > Further explanation: > We are going to use a random page loading script for our site index (basic > content will be the same, just different images & captions based on a > theme). The url that appears in the address bar is currently > .../index01.html, .../index02.html etc. We would like our users to continue > to have the random page load even after they bookmark the site. Any thoughts? > > Many thanks, > Natalie > > Natalie Klein > Software Development Group > Laboratory for Laser Energetics > University of Rochester > 240 East River Road > Rochester, New York 14623-1299 > > Tel:585-275-8295 > > www.lle.rochester.edu > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com Fri May 24 15:21:01 2002 From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer) Date: Fri May 24 15:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] force bookmark url In-Reply-To: <200205242009.g4OK9I8l010755@leo.evolt.org> References: <4.3.1.2.20020523172648.00bc16c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020524151519.019f44d0@mail.imaginuity.com> On 03:09 PM 5/24/2002, aardvark said to me: > > Further explanation: > > We are going to use a random page loading script for our site index > > (basic content will be the same, just different images & captions > > based on a theme). The url that appears in the address bar is > > currently .../index01.html, .../index02.html etc. We would like our > > users to continue to have the random page load even after they > > bookmark the site. Any thoughts? > >for example, at algonquinstudios.com, we use one home page >template that randomly pulls the details and image of a case study >into the template, so even if you bookmark it, you're going to get >new content each time... and there's no redirect, no JS, no client- >side work at all... totally SE friendly, too... Yes, it's very simple for most server-side languages to generate a random number and then use a switch statement to display a different theme. I did this for http://www.dfwanime.com/. It allows me to alter both the graphics and the CSS theme. It also makes it very easy to add new themes. --Ben Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive http://www.imaginuity.com/ Whatever it is, I'm sure that I was just about to get to it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/OKolzig37/ http://www.evolt.org/ From webshot at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 15:24:01 2002 From: webshot at members.evolt.org (John Corry) Date: Fri May 24 15:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] (preferably) open source ticket sales/reservations software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c20360$ece6af00$6801a8c0@neonreactor> I am approached by a local theatre to build an online ticket sales/reservations system... I would have rushed headlong into building a custom hack job for them a few months ago, but recent projects have taught me not to bite off more than I can chew. Does software that will do this sort of thing exist already? Any experience you guys have with this sort of thing or suggestions you could make? Thanks, John Corry Neon Cowboy Design http://www.neoncowboy.com mail : john at neoncowboy.com phone : 808.572.8494 From scotts at rci-nv.com Fri May 24 15:33:01 2002 From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz) Date: Fri May 24 15:33:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Mozilla 1.0 RC3 Message-ID: With all the Netscape 7 flurry, I haven't seen anyone mention that Mozilla 1.0 Release Candidate 3 is now out there. It's supposedly the last RC before 1.0 ships. http://www.mozilla.org/releases/ Happy weekend! (holiday for those in the US) -- Scott Schrantz work: www.rci-nv.com play: www.computer-vet.com From john at neoncowboy.com Fri May 24 15:52:01 2002 From: john at neoncowboy.com (John Corry) Date: Fri May 24 15:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] (preferably) open source ticket sales/reservations software Message-ID: <000001c2035e$d61625a0$6801a8c0@neonreactor> I am approached by a local theatre to build an online ticket sales/reservations system... I would have rushed headlong into building a custom hack job for them a few months ago, but recent projects have taught me not to bite off more than I can chew. Does software that will do this sort of thing exist already? Any experience you guys have with this sort of thing or suggestions you could make? Thanks, John Corry Neon Cowboy Design http://www.neoncowboy.com mail : john at neoncowboy.com phone : 808.572.8494 From lordcutter at mac.com Fri May 24 15:58:01 2002 From: lordcutter at mac.com (lordcutter at mac.com) Date: Fri May 24 15:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anon web page based proxy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2820B7C2-6EB6-11D6-80BA-00039341C47E@mac.com> Hey, I have the task of checking if a sites new dns works - it works for me, but I have until recently been using the server as a dns, and I can connect to it from the server itself which is also kind is biased - I want to use a service like anonymizer, but it is now commercial and its counterpart safeweb is not longer offering the service. any ideas? thanks, Cameron From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri May 24 16:08:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Fri May 24 16:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS and Dragging in IE5 References: <20020524193615.7981.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01c901c20367$115e1b10$243588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi, Try this version: 3D VML
    From beau at members.evolt.org Fri May 24 16:37:01 2002 From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne) Date: Fri May 24 16:37:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE 6, NN 6, CSS Message-ID: <000101c2036a$9d3fdc60$cd71fea9@Cube> OK. I'm working on this page: http://www.cubeinc.ca/clients/cerins/index.php I'm still using tables for layout, but using CSS for type work. On this particular page, I'd like the top of the type to line up with the top of the image. It's close enough in IE 6, but it's a few pixels off in NN 6. I was able to fix this by applying a margin-top:0; style to the first paragraph. There must be a better way... A related issue (that I'm discussing in css-d) is the space before first paragraph after an

    . On this page: http://www.cubeinc.ca/clients/cerins/artist-bio.php I don't want the extra space between Awards and Text. Someone from css-d suggested two things: h2 { margin-bottom: -20px; } /* or */ h2 + p { margin: 0px; } The first fixes the

    ..

    ..

    problem in NN and in IE. BUT, in IE, if I do something like

    the table will run into the

    . NN does not have this problem. The second fixes the

    ..

    ..

    problem in NN only. IE doesn't even seem to recognize it. Thanks, Beau From ERIC.JOHNSON at desertschools.org Fri May 24 16:39:00 2002 From: ERIC.JOHNSON at desertschools.org (ERIC JOHNSON) Date: Fri May 24 16:39:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anon web page based proxy? Message-ID: Actually I sent this to a friend yesterday. Google searching for "anonymous web" yielded a *couple* relevant hits but I couldn't think of how to better refine my search. One of the sites I know worked was: http://jproxy.uol.com.ar/jproxy/ After the last slash, append the http://www.somesite.com web address and it should work, if not, dig down to the root and see if that does. Good luck! Eric J. Web Developer http://www.mistergin.net >>> lordcutter at mac.com 05/23/02 06:32PM >>> Hey, I have the task of checking if a sites new dns works - it works for me, but I have until recently been using the server as a dns, and I can connect to it from the server itself which is also kind is biased - I want to use a service like anonymizer, but it is now commercial and its counterpart safeweb is not longer offering the service. any ideas? thanks, Cameron -- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri May 24 16:49:01 2002 From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa) Date: Fri May 24 16:49:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS and Dragging in IE5 In-Reply-To: <01c901c20367$115e1b10$243588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <20020524214843.26756.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com> Whoops, I just realized where you removed the targElem var declaration in all but engage. Why does it matter that you take out var=? I get variable undefined if I put it in. It must have something to do with var scope? I feel like this is a basic concept I am missing here... (thanks so much by the way.) Tom --- Richard Bennett wrote: > Hi, > Try this version: > > > > 3D VML > > > > > > > > >
    > > fillcolor="white" > strokecolor="black" > style="position:absolute; top:10; left:10; width:300; height:10"> > > > fillcolor="red" > strokecolor="black" > style="position:absolute; top:10; left:250; width:55; height:10"> > > >
    > > type="button" > value="Show" onclick="javascript: > document.getElementById('viewerControl').style.display = > 'block';"> > > > > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From pixelmech at yahoo.com Fri May 24 16:54:01 2002 From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa) Date: Fri May 24 16:54:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS and Dragging in IE5 In-Reply-To: <01c901c20367$115e1b10$243588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Message-ID: <20020524215400.51725.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> One more question: In this function (or the others for that matter) function mouseUp(e) { var x = event.x + document.body.scrollLeft var y = event.y + document.body.scrollTop isActive = false return true } I understand that scrollLeft/Top is the amount in IE that the window has scrolled left or down(?). But the window is not actually scrolling, especially in my small example. yet, if you take that out its messed up. Is this somehow taking into account the knob? I'm confused what this actually does... Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From mhwelter at welterweb.com Fri May 24 17:02:00 2002 From: mhwelter at welterweb.com (Marcia Welter) Date: Fri May 24 17:02:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Anon web page based proxy? In-Reply-To: <2820B7C2-6EB6-11D6-80BA-00039341C47E@mac.com> Message-ID: You can root around and find a proxy to log on through, so you're essentially "anonymous" starting with Google. http://www2.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=free+proxy+server It's been awhile since I've done it, but it was very easy to configure with NS 4.7 It was something like setting preferences > advanced Marcia > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of lordcutter at mac.com > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 6:33 PM > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] Anon web page based proxy? > > > Hey, I have the task of checking if a sites new dns works - > it works for me, but I have until recently been using the server as a > dns, > and I can connect to it from the server itself which is also kind is > biased - > I want to use a service like anonymizer, but it is now commercial and > its counterpart safeweb is not longer offering the service. > any ideas? > > thanks, > Cameron > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri May 24 17:10:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Fri May 24 17:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JS and Dragging in IE5 References: <20020524214843.26756.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <021101c2036f$b50fa5f0$243588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <<----- Original Message ----- < < Message-ID: <20020524221713.54539.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks a lot for your time, Richard. I'm not the sharpest tac in the bunch and those two things have been bugging me! I appreciate it. Tom --- Richard Bennett wrote: > > <<----- Original Message ----- > < > < all but engage. Why does > < It must have something > < here... (thanks so much by > < > Yes, "var" determines the variables scope. > > Variables defined with var are only available in the function they are > defined in, and it's "child" functions. > Variables assigned a value without defining using "var" are available to the > whole script. > If you want to code neatly you could define them with "var" at the top of > the script, not required though. > > document.body.scrollLeft should return 0 if the page isn't scrolled. > Here the script works fine with that taken out. > > Richard. > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From mail at redhotsweeps.com Fri May 24 17:29:01 2002 From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty) Date: Fri May 24 17:29:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP mail headers problem.... In-Reply-To: <20020524181028.79641.qmail@web12801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524103045.02081970@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524172424.021e2878@redhotsweeps.com> THANK YOU. I think this is it. I have sent several test messages and they seem to work ok. I am still testing but this looks promising. Another question.....Can I change the "reply to" header? Also, I need to receive several html emails at a certain address for testing. Does anyone know of any "service" that sends html emails? Can be anything. ie...Tell a friend, what ever... Thanks again. Chris From rachel at cre8d-design.com Fri May 24 17:56:01 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Fri May 24 17:56:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524172424.021e2878@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: Hi, Just about finished working on a site, it's looking fine in IE 6, Opera 6. I downloaded Netscape 7 to check it out in there, but the CSS layout has been mucked up. Is someone able to tell me what's a better way to lay the site out using CSS that will work in each of the three browsers (I realise earlier versions of browsers may muck up, but I first want to get it looking fine in the latest versions). URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html The problem in Netscape is that the content lies on top of the header :( Many thanks, Rachel From zaunere at yahoo.com Fri May 24 18:18:01 2002 From: zaunere at yahoo.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri May 24 18:18:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP mail headers problem.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524172424.021e2878@redhotsweeps.com> Message-ID: <20020524231750.56073.qmail@web12808.mail.yahoo.com> --- CDitty wrote: > THANK YOU. > > I think this is it. I have sent several test messages and they seem > to > work ok. I am still testing but this looks promising. > > Another question.....Can I change the "reply to" header? Also, I > need to > receive several html emails at a certain address for testing. Does > anyone > know of any "service" that sends html emails? Can be anything. > ie...Tell > a friend, what ever... Sure, any header can be set. However, if you're gonna be dealing with a lot of complex mail, I recommend a class or set of functions (phpclasses.websapp.com). I have a nice class I wrote for this, that talks directly SMTP, and I can send it to you, however it's not "end user" ready yet and you may have better luck with a pre-cooked package. As for HTML email, yahoo.com can do that. Hans Z. New York PHP http://nyphp.org > > Thanks again. > Chris > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Fri May 24 18:36:01 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Fri May 24 18:36:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Your site is also mucked up in Netscape 4.7. There is almost no color at all. Are we ignoring 4.7 and not bothering to fix websites that don't work in 4.7? Nan In a message dated 5/24/2002 6:56:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rachel at cre8d-design.com writes: > Just about finished working on a site, it's looking fine in IE 6, Opera 6. > I downloaded Netscape 7 to check it out in there, but the CSS layout has > been mucked up. Is someone able to tell me what's a better way to lay the > site out using CSS that will work in each of the three browsers (I realise > earlier versions of browsers may muck up, but I first want to get it looking > fine in the latest versions). > > URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html > > The problem in Netscape is that the content lies on top of the header :( > > Many thanks, > Rachel > Nan Harbison Smith 481 Elm Street Concord, MA 01742 978-369-1224 978-369-1681 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks. From rachel at cre8d-design.com Fri May 24 20:16:00 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Fri May 24 20:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've fixed the content so it works on Netscape, just having a bit of trouble positioning the copyright now :] What do other people do to accomodate earlier browsers if you go for a table-less site - like I have here? - Rachel -----Original Message----- Your site is also mucked up in Netscape 4.7. There is almost no color at all. Are we ignoring 4.7 and not bothering to fix websites that don't work in 4.7? Nan > URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html From evolt at stoutstreet.com Fri May 24 20:23:01 2002 From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick) Date: Fri May 24 20:23:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout References: Message-ID: <012b01c2038a$dd9820e0$0300000a@pooky> I usually give them no style at all.....the info comes through fine. I'll do an id with display: none and a link to the browser upgrade initiative ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Cunliffe" To: Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: RE: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout > I've fixed the content so it works on Netscape, just having a bit of trouble > positioning the copyright now :] > What do other people do to accomodate earlier browsers if you go for a > table-less site - like I have here? > - Rachel > > -----Original Message----- > Your site is also mucked up in Netscape 4.7. There is almost no color at > all. Are we ignoring 4.7 and not bothering to fix websites that don't work > in 4.7? Nan > > > URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Fri May 24 21:58:01 2002 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Fri May 24 21:58:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Color Comparison In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C22F@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: Cool > I have created a color comparer and would appreciate some feedback. > > http://www23.brinkster.com/feingold/color/colors.asp From chris at activeinterface.com Fri May 24 22:11:01 2002 From: chris at activeinterface.com (Chris Harrington) Date: Fri May 24 22:11:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS file/directory access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524222902.01c68920@pop.mail.yahoo.com> One Solution is to wrap access to the files with ASP so that you can check in ASP if the user has an authenticated session. You will need to write a small VB object to read whatever binary file you are serving out. And you will need to set the ContentType correctly. But this will definitely work - I do this often. If it would be helpful I can post or email the VB source. Chris Harrington At 07:59 PM 5/23/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I have a client that needs to be able to deliver .doc and .pdf files >to users, but only after they have registered. > >The concern is that once one user knows the link to the document - >like "http://www.somedomain.com/files/thefile.pdf", then they could >give that link out to anybody. > >I've done plenty of "password protected" pages with ASP, but since >these are not .asp pages that solution doesn't work. > >What I'm looking for is the same function as .htaccess on a >Linux/Apache system, but on an IIS 4.0/NT 4.0 server. > >As I understand it, NT Challenge/Response isn't really a solution >since there will be hundreds (thousands maybe) of users needing to >download these files, but they should not/could not be added as users >on the NT server. > >Any ideas or references on how to solve this? > >Best, Joel Morris >------------------------------- >CityCenter Co. >Website Development & Marketing >http://www.citycent.com >mailto:joelm at citycent.com > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! Chris Harrington Active Interface, Inc. www.intrasight.com Ph: 412-901-1184 Fax: 412-799-0927 From chris at activeinterface.com Fri May 24 22:11:10 2002 From: chris at activeinterface.com (Chris Harrington) Date: Fri May 24 22:11:10 2002 Subject: [thelist] ASP vs TSQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524224037.0290c610@pop.mail.yahoo.com> You can still make one DB call by building a set of SQL calls and sending them as a unit. So it comes down to which development model/language you prefer. IMHO, databases should only be programmed in SQL, since everything else (like stored procedures) is proprietary to a given database vendor. Another option with newer databases is to build client-side in JS an XML string which you send directly to the databases HTTP listener - or IIS proxy in the case of SQL Server. Chris Harrington At 11:47 AM 5/23/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all > >I'm writing a bit of code which is going to update fields in a table. >Bascially a form with checkboxes is submitted, each checked checkbox >represents a record which needs to be updated. Now before I would have used >ASP to loop through an array generated from the returned value of the >checkboxes, with each iteration altering the value of a parameter and >executing a command. What I was thinking was that instead of doing this, >perhaps I would be better off just passing the array through to a stored >procedure and allowing it to loop through it. Resulting in one call to the >database, rather then repeated ones. Would this be a good idea? > >Norman > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! Chris Harrington Active Interface, Inc. www.intrasight.com Ph: 412-901-1184 Fax: 412-799-0927 From mark at markgroen.com Fri May 24 22:37:00 2002 From: mark at markgroen.com (Mark Groen) Date: Fri May 24 22:37:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Color Comparison In-Reply-To: References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C22F@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: <3CEEA38C.7079.27F734F@localhost> > Cool > > > I have created a color comparer and would appreciate some feedback. > > > > http://www23.brinkster.com/feingold/color/colors.asp > Worked well for me too, lots of choices! From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat May 25 00:45:01 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat May 25 00:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Woes Message-ID: <000701c203af$385a5740$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> Hey Folks .. A weird problem in Netscape .. as usual ;) Tested on both Win-98 PC (ver 4.73) and Mac (ver. 4.61).. both show the same problem. HTML and CSS both validate. http://mishka.ca/ Yet, the centre content is pushed down about 3" from where it should be... it should align relatively the same as the menu on the side bar. I can *forgive and forget* a lot of NS quirks .. but this one is bothering me. Any suggestions? I've fiddled with margins, padding and tables .. but can't find what's causing this problem. Thanks a million :) Michele (p.s. Yes, I know most of the links don't work .. and yes I know the other pages are whacked .. one step at a time ;) From luminosity at members.evolt.org Sat May 25 05:08:01 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Sat May 25 05:08:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? Message-ID: <1026.139.130.216.191.1022321258.squirrel@members.evolt.org> What HTMl element is the one most correctly used to mark-up the names of books, movies, games, etc? I have seen cite suggested for this before, but my local copy of the html spec seems to suggest it's use in relation with quoting a source. >From spec: 'Contains a citation or a reference to other sources.' with an example of "As Harry S. Truman said, The buck stops here." So is it still the best element to use to mark-up a reference to whatever you're talking about? Never, ever, ever use CSS, or anything to make links in your documents appear identical to normal text. I saw this just yesterday when visiting the contact part of the site, and if I hadn't viewed source, I wouldn't have figured out that the word email was a link. Most people will not know to view source, and in any case will not be determined enough to bother looking for what doesn't appear prominently on the page. Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sat May 25 08:10:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sat May 25 08:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout References: Message-ID: <3CEF4E5D.5080506@cyberfuddle.com> Rachel, > Just about finished working on a site, it's looking fine in IE 6, Opera 6. > I downloaded Netscape 7 to check it out in there, but the CSS layout has > been mucked up. Is someone able to tell me what's a better way to lay the > site out using CSS that will work in each of the three browsers (I realise > earlier versions of browsers may muck up, but I first want to get it looking > fine in the latest versions). > > URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html > > The problem in Netscape is that the content lies on top of the header :( I see no problems of that kind (Moz1RC3/Linux... Netscape 7 is based on one of the Mozilla 1 RC's). That said, I'd like to point out that simply making links bold doesn't make them particularly easy to use - what happens if you also want to use bold for emphasis? -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sat May 25 08:12:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sat May 25 08:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout References: <012b01c2038a$dd9820e0$0300000a@pooky> Message-ID: <3CEF5313.2030709@cyberfuddle.com> patrick, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Cunliffe" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 7:22 PM > Subject: RE: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout >>What do other people do to accomodate earlier browsers if you go for a >>table-less site - like I have here? > > I usually give them no style at all.....the info comes through fine. I'll do > an id with display: none and a link to the browser upgrade initiative Yeah, because people surfing with non-IE/Moz/Opera browsers are usually doing so out of sheer ignorance, huh? People don't use Dillo/Links/Lynx/Netscape for any reason other than to be irritating, huh? And as for those gosh darned silly spiders, well, they ought to be capable of understanding visual CSS as well. After all, doesn't Googlebot *want* to see our pretty layouts? -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sat May 25 08:14:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sat May 25 08:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS "HTTP 401.3 - Access denied by ACL on resource" Error References: Message-ID: <3CEF4950.5050900@cyberfuddle.com> David Bindel wrote: > MG > Ummm, have you tried checking out what's *in* the ACL? Could be you're > MG > denying all TCP/IP or something. > > MG > Course, that doesn't explain why it only blocked Mozilla at first. > > To tell you the truth, I have no idea what ACL even. That's why I asked Access Control Lists. I'm not that well up on them (I'm a little behind where I really should be on my Cisco studying), but basically they're lists that control access through routers (hence the name) > thelist. But I tried adding the Everyone group with read and now it doesn't > ask me for my password. Um, good :o) -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From r937 at interlog.com Sat May 25 08:15:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat May 25 08:15:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Woes Message-ID: <01c203ee$25e10980$10501dd1@rudy> > I've fiddled with margins, padding and tables .. > but can't find what's causing this problem. hi michele you didn't fiddle enough, eh ;o) you have several of these -- Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 1:04:28 AM Posted By: [snip] and it's the padding on both of those classes that's causing the problem it actually looks like the padding accumulates above the table! hence your large gap another nn4 css bug, i guess apply your styles to the contents of table cells, not the cells themselves rudy From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sat May 25 08:16:00 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sat May 25 08:16:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout References: Message-ID: <3CEF51BD.3020402@cyberfuddle.com> Rachel Cunliffe wrote: > I've fixed the content so it works on Netscape, just having a bit of trouble > positioning the copyright now :] > What do other people do to accomodate earlier browsers if you go for a > table-less site - like I have here? When I'm feeling lazy, I call the stylesheet like so: IE4 and NN4 (two browsers I'm worried about) won't see anything - they'll be as safe as Dillo. When I'm feeling like actually *doing* something, I create two stylesheets - one that contains anything Netscape Navigator 4.x won't choke on, and one containing everything else. The "safe" stylesheet is called with: , and the "unsafe" stylesheet is imported, as above. -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From gilescarey at supanet.com Sat May 25 08:35:01 2002 From: gilescarey at supanet.com (Giles Carey) Date: Sat May 25 08:35:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check Message-ID: <000301c203be$6472a620$6f2d86d9@mlcuptn> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] http://gilescarey.web1000.com/threshold%20dc/index.htm please could you check this site for borwser compatiiblity cheers evolters g inobx at elementdesign.biz -- From roselli at earthlink.net Sat May 25 08:47:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat May 25 08:47:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? In-Reply-To: <1026.139.130.216.191.1022321258.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> > From: "Lachlan Cannon" > > What HTMl element is the one most correctly used to mark-up the names > of books, movies, games, etc? I have seen cite suggested for this > before, but my local copy of the html spec seems to suggest it's use > in relation with quoting a source. [...] > So is it still the best element to use to mark-up a reference to > whatever you're talking about? your inclusion of the spec was handy, saved me a moment to look up the example, which doesn't offer much help, does it? i tend to use , regardless... so if i reference a book, i might do it like this: you must now go buy Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself, because if you don't, i might cry... in my head, that justifies its use because i'm citing a book and including its ISBN along with it... is this right? i dunno, but it seems to flow logically for me, and i've not had it challenged as of late... now would be a good time to test that, though... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From evolt at stoutstreet.com Sat May 25 09:04:01 2002 From: evolt at stoutstreet.com (patrick) Date: Sat May 25 09:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout References: <012b01c2038a$dd9820e0$0300000a@pooky> <3CEF5313.2030709@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: <002501c203f5$34966ea0$0300000a@pooky> Not at all. If a browser -- Netscape 4 in particular -- mangles CSS to the point that the information on the site is unreadable, it is more advantageous to have the visuals drop away gracefully and the text come through un-styled. As to your comments about alternative browsers, the key point of my statement again is 'the info comes through fine'. No style does not mean no information. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gallagher" To: Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout > patrick, > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rachel Cunliffe" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 7:22 PM > > Subject: RE: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout > > > > >>What do other people do to accomodate earlier browsers if you go for a > >>table-less site - like I have here? > > > > I usually give them no style at all.....the info comes through fine. > I'll do > > an id with display: none and a link to the browser upgrade initiative > > Yeah, because people surfing with non-IE/Moz/Opera browsers are usually > doing so out of sheer ignorance, huh? > > People don't use Dillo/Links/Lynx/Netscape for any reason other than to > be irritating, huh? And as for those gosh darned silly spiders, well, > they ought to be capable of understanding visual CSS as well. After > all, doesn't Googlebot *want* to see our pretty layouts? > > > > -- > Mark Gallagher > http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ > > -- > For unsubscribe and other options, including > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From ldelahunty at britstream.com Sat May 25 10:01:01 2002 From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty) Date: Sat May 25 10:01:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Color Comparison In-Reply-To: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C22F@chm0010mb01> Message-ID: Feingold Josh S wrote: I have created a color comparer and would appreciate some feedback. http://www23.brinkster.com/feingold/color/colors.asp Thanks, Josh Hi, That's a nice idea. I did something broadly similar (I think it's probably win IE only) that displays the css for cut 'n' paste, and/or for clients to have a little play... http://www.liamdelahunty.com/tips/css_colour_tool.php Kind regards, Liam Delahunty Mega Products Limited, 10-11 Moor Street, London W1D 5NF t: 020 7434 4201/2 f: 0870 135 8412 m: 07941 589 061 http://www.liamdelahunty.com/ web/ design/ database/ programming http://www.britstream.com/ Hosting/ Domain Names From UKP 7.50 p.a. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 21/05/2002 From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Sat May 25 11:55:01 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Sat May 25 11:55:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Message-ID: Has anyone ever heard of the tag???? I noticed my flatmate debugging his site today ( www.yem.org.uk) and he was typing this tag which I have never even heard of! From Ed at ComSimplicity.com Sat May 25 11:56:00 2002 From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll) Date: Sat May 25 11:56:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Color Comparison In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Seems to have an alignment problem. Screenshot: http://www.comsimplicity.com/screenshots/liamdelahunty_css_colour_tool.jpg > I did something broadly similar (I think it's probably win IE only) that > displays the css for cut 'n' paste, and/or for clients to have a little > play... > > http://www.liamdelahunty.com/tips/css_colour_tool.php > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ed McCarroll MailTo:Ed at ComSimplicity.com dba ComSimplicity (310) 838-4330 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From Jakob.Doelling at gmx.net Sat May 25 12:09:00 2002 From: Jakob.Doelling at gmx.net (Jakob =?iso-8859-1?Q?D=F6lling?=) Date: Sat May 25 12:09:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] No local surfing on w2kpro with IE 5.x References: <3CA78486.C751D8A7@gmx.net> Message-ID: <3CEFB101.6B7970B9@gmx.net> Morn' folks: Problem solved. The first part of the solution: I terminated correctly the NIC Apache is tied to. That NIC wasn't terminated at all before ;-) . This improved the loading time. So far, so hoopy. Solution part two: IE still keeps complaining about missing connections to the internet. I found out, IE does connect to my local server by hitting "Retry". Regards, Jakob D?lling From nick at tioka.com Sat May 25 12:09:08 2002 From: nick at tioka.com (Nick Wilson) Date: Sat May 25 12:09:08 2002 Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Woes In-Reply-To: <000701c203af$385a5740$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> References: <000701c203af$385a5740$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> Message-ID: <20020525160226.GB2027@explodingnet.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * and then Michele Foster declared.... > A weird problem in Netscape .. as usual ;) Tested on both Win-98 PC (ver > 4.73) and Mac (ver. 4.61).. both show the same problem. > http://mishka.ca/ > > Yet, the centre content is pushed down about 3" from where it should be... > it should align relatively the same as the menu on the side bar. I can > *forgive and forget* a lot of NS quirks .. but this one is bothering me. Well, it appears as I imagine it should in nn4 on Linux. Maybe try messing with those margins and padding using shorthand notation like "margin: 0 0 0 0;" as nn4 and opera sometimes play nicer if you do that? - -- Nick Wilson // www.tioka.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE877WSHpvrrTa6L5oRAludAJ0VDQAOU/oOmMeonVZvNlchv6aKHwCeKvRx Yfpvi3fn7rwyzgzjbsqZq9Q= =VbAB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From roselli at earthlink.net Sat May 25 12:14:01 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat May 25 12:14:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200205251713.g4PHDU8l020651@leo.evolt.org> > From: Daniel Fascia > > Has anyone ever heard of the tag???? > > I noticed my flatmate debugging his site today ( www.yem.org.uk) and > he was typing this tag which I have never even heard of! it's a non-valid tag introduced by Navigator in the v4 browsers in an attempt to help developers move away from the spacer.gif... essentially, it accepted height and width and just took up space... you can still find examples in the wild, although it's fallen into the hyper-endangered tag pile, and we're still hiring hunters to track the last of them down... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat May 25 12:31:01 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat May 25 12:31:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] NS 4.x Woes .. Solved :) References: <000701c203af$385a5740$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> <20020525160226.GB2027@explodingnet.com> Message-ID: <010b01c20411$d973df40$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> Hi Nick .. Actually it was Rudy's suggestion that solved the problem. I fixed it up a couple of hours ago. http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020520/113428.html Thanks though .. a weird problem.. causing a bunch of accumulated extra space. Live and learn :) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Wilson" | * and then Michele Foster declared.... | > A weird problem in Netscape .. as usual ;) Tested on both Win-98 PC (ver | > 4.73) and Mac (ver. 4.61).. both show the same problem. | > http://mishka.ca/ | > | > Yet, the centre content is pushed down about 3" from where it should be... | > it should align relatively the same as the menu on the side bar. I can | > *forgive and forget* a lot of NS quirks .. but this one is bothering me. | | Well, it appears as I imagine it should in nn4 on Linux. | Maybe try messing with those margins and padding using shorthand | notation like "margin: 0 0 0 0;" as nn4 and opera sometimes play nicer | if you do that? From info at kostaldesign.de Sat May 25 12:42:00 2002 From: info at kostaldesign.de (Kostal Design | Sebastian Kostal) Date: Sat May 25 12:42:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Re: Scrollable drop down menu (Flavia Tarzwell (FayeC)) Message-ID: Check out http://www.dhtmlcentral.com/. They have some really advanced scripts including dropdown navigation, even usable for frames. From danfascia at totalise.co.uk Sat May 25 13:03:01 2002 From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia) Date: Sat May 25 13:03:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [v.OT] Eurovision site Message-ID: Checkout www.eurovision.tv its one damned handsome site... From evolt at david.us-lot.org Sat May 25 13:33:00 2002 From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward) Date: Sat May 25 13:33:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] [v.OT] Eurovision site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020525193320.1631141c.evolt@david.us-lot.org> On Sat, 25 May 2002 19:02:01 +0100 Daniel Fascia wrote: > Checkout www.eurovision.tv its one damned handsome site... Although less so in a text browser. [USEMAP:_tpix.gif] [front_01_en.gif] [front_02.gif] [front_03.gif] [front_04_en.gif] [front_05_en.gif] [m_front_en_1_p.gif] [m_front_en_2_p.gif] -- David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/ HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV. From lists at prydain.com Sat May 25 14:21:01 2002 From: lists at prydain.com (Ray Hill) Date: Sat May 25 14:21:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Has anyone ever heard of the tag???? I know that it's supported by WebTV, but there are quite a few non-standard tags that WebTV browsers support. anyone? --ray From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat May 25 14:53:01 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Sat May 25 14:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] site check In-Reply-To: <000301c203be$6472a620$6f2d86d9@mlcuptn> References: <000301c203be$6472a620$6f2d86d9@mlcuptn> Message-ID: <1022357383.8600.5.camel@yafa> >From the webpage It is recommended that you view the Threshold website with Microsoft Internet Explorer or Nestcape Navigator The latest versions of these browsers can be downloaded from the Microsft Website or the Nestcape website. If you are using any other browser, the page may not function to the best of its ability but is still viewable. To continue with your current browser click here or enter the text only version of the site. What next? It is recomended that you wipe your hard-drive and install Microsoft Windows or Sun Solaris. -- RedConcepts.NET -- Open Solutions Design Syndicate Open Source, Public Service -- the Art and Craft of Webdesign http://redconcepts.net -- http://os-ds.com 'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds' From georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com Sat May 25 15:26:01 2002 From: georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com (George Klingenhoffer) Date: Sat May 25 15:26:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] embed & html validating Message-ID: Hey, so I'm using HTML 4.01 Transitional and I've got to have a Flash file on the site; it doesn't validate because apparently 'embed' isn't an HTML element. But it's necessary for NS4, right? Any way I can have it both ways? From pkaulbak at idirect.ca Sat May 25 15:50:00 2002 From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback) Date: Sat May 25 15:50:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP on IIS vs PHP on Apache? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020525164415.00aa36d0@mail.idirect.ca> I've begun playing with PHP on my Apache server, I want to convert my site over to PHP which is hosted on IIS. Is there any performance issues I might come up against or limitations? Isn't PHP a CGI on IIS and will this affect how pages tested on Apache work? Back to my mishaps now. Peter Kaulback Animals don't wear underpants, they like to roam freee! From jweiss at cei.net Sat May 25 16:07:01 2002 From: jweiss at cei.net (Jeremy Weiss) Date: Sat May 25 16:07:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] database query question Message-ID: Okay, as you all know (from the numerous questions I've been asking) I'm trying to learn how to access a database from a web page. After reading and re-reading several tutorials and buying a rather large book by Sybex, I've finally learned to open a connection to my database and have ran a simple query on it (WooHoo!). Unfortunately, I've run into a problem writing the query that I'm needing. What I need is to search a field (zipcode) in a table (main_tbl) and see if the user inputted a valid zipcode. If so, I need information pulled from several fields in that record (url & email for starters). Here's what I've got so far for this query. SQL = "SELECT zipcode, email, url FROM Main_tbl WHERE zipcode= zipcode" It looks okay to me, but I get the following error message. -- Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80040e10' No value given for one or more required parameters. -- Now if I take out the email, url and leave just the zipcode it works... but I'm not sure why. Anybody have any spare time and feel like helping me grasp all this? ;) TIA, Jeremy Weiss From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Sat May 25 16:18:00 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Sat May 25 16:18:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] database query question Message-ID: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi Jeremy, If you copied/pasted your code into this email exactly the way you are running it, then it looks like you forgot to put the single quotation marks around the last zipcode, but then I don't know what that last zipcode word is, is it a variable? Assuming the last time you have the word zipcode it is a variable, then it should say: WHERE zipcode= 'zipcode' then add the last double quote, which I left out because it would be hard to see it here. But then maybe this is not the problem, since the query works if you take out email and URL. Have you been careful about case sensitivity? I am nor sure about the database you are using (Access?), but other DBs are case sensitive, so if the table column is EMAIL and you are referencing it as email, it may not work. These are some of the mistakes I made when I was first learning SQL. Nan --------------original message---------------- > Unfortunately, I've run into a problem writing the query that I'm needing. > What I need is to search a field (zipcode) in a table (main_tbl) and see if > the user inputted a valid zipcode. If so, I need information pulled from > several fields in that record (url & email for starters). > Here's what I've got so far for this query. > SQL = "SELECT zipcode, email, url FROM Main_tbl WHERE zipcode= zipcode" > It looks okay to me, but I get the following error message. > -- > Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80040e10' > > No value given for one or more required parameters. > -- > > Now if I take out the email, url and leave just the zipcode it works... but > I'm not sure why. > From jjk3 at msstate.edu Sat May 25 16:44:01 2002 From: jjk3 at msstate.edu (Joel Konkle-Parker) Date: Sat May 25 16:44:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] dhtml menus/mozilla Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I seem to be having a problem with my flyout menus in mozilla 1.0rc3. The page is http://www.ballsome.com/test/index.html If you go to Games then Software then move your mouse around in the flyout box, you'll notice that it disappears when your mouse goes below the second link. This is also precisely the top of the news box under the menu, but I don't know why it would be messing it up in this fashion. Any advice? - -joeljkp - --------------------------------------- http://www.ballsome.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPPAFoH880CLOJa2eEQIItACfYajg5Z3u8AbwqUo3VzsuSElCme8AoNi4 geq91eEQcGhYaIfDufTqoxs6 =vrXX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From r937 at interlog.com Sat May 25 16:47:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat May 25 16:47:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] database query question Message-ID: <01c20435$9e4fc180$51e6059a@rudy> > select zipcode, email url > from Main_tbl > where zipcode = zipcode > > Now if I take out the email, url and leave just the zipcode > it works... but I'm not sure why. hi jeremy that there should work even with email and url included foo=foo for any valid column foo i.e. zipcode=zipcode is true for all rows (except -- maybe -- if it's null, but that's a different problem) you didn't say which language you're running your query in, so i get to choose the language to give you my answer in, and i'll choose coldfusion (you're probably using asp, because you have to go to the trouble of assigning the value of your query to the SQL variable, heh) so anyhow, you need to write the query using the value of your form field variable -- where zipcode = #form.zipcode# or where zipcode = '#form.zipcode#' depending on whether the zipcode column is character or numeric (it'll be character if you allow for 9 digits *and* the hyphen) always use single quotes for character strings in the query itself -- then you can use double quotes to assign the query statement, if you have to rudy http://rudy.ca/ From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org Sat May 25 18:24:01 2002 From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid) Date: Sat May 25 18:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP on IIS vs PHP on Apache? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020525164415.00aa36d0@mail.idirect.ca> Message-ID: <002701c20441$b2f018e0$d1b8b7c7@compaq> You have an option of using it as a CGI, but I would highly recommend using the SAPI module, for security and performance reasons. Let me know if you need help setting it up. Regards, Burhan Khalid From genghis at members.evolt.org Sat May 25 19:41:01 2002 From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar) Date: Sat May 25 19:41:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP on IIS vs PHP on Apache? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020525164415.00aa36d0@mail.idirect.ca> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Peter Kaulback > Sent: 25 May 2002 21:48 > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org > Subject: [thelist] PHP on IIS vs PHP on Apache? > > I've begun playing with PHP on my Apache server, I want to convert my site > over to PHP which is hosted on IIS. Is there any performance > issues I might > come up against or limitations? Isn't PHP a CGI on IIS and will > this affect > how pages tested on Apache work? > Back to my mishaps now. > > Peter Kaulback Yeah. One (really big) problem if you hit it: in that environment you can't handle cookies at the same time as sending header() commands of any kind. ------------------------------------------ John Handelaar T +44 20 8933 1494 M +44 7930 681789 F +44 870 169 7657 E john at userfrenzy.com ------------------------------------------ From luminosity at members.evolt.org Sat May 25 20:13:01 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Sat May 25 20:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? In-Reply-To: <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> References: <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> Message-ID: <1025.139.130.216.191.1022375554.squirrel@members.evolt.org> aardvark said: > > your inclusion of the spec was handy, saved me a moment to look up the > example, which doesn't offer much help, does it? > > i tend to use , regardless... Yeah, I thought that using it would be better than not using anything - I just wondered if anyone knew of a more correct element, before I started using cite. > so if i reference a book, i might do it like this: > > you must now go buy Usability: The > Site Speaks for Itself, because if you don't, i might cry... What would you do for a game / movie, etc, then? Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Sat May 25 20:28:01 2002 From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns) Date: Sat May 25 20:28:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? In-Reply-To: <1025.139.130.216.191.1022375554.squirrel@members.evolt.org > References: <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525181949.01f2bea8@mail.midtown.net> At 06:12 PM 5/25/2002, you typed: > > i tend to use , regardless... > >Yeah, I thought that using it would be better than not using anything - I >just wondered if anyone knew of a more correct element, before I started >using cite. > > > so if i reference a book, i might do it like this: > > > > you must now go buy Usability: The > > Site Speaks for Itself, because if you don't, i might cry... > >What would you do for a game / movie, etc, then? Steve Champeon discussed some good ideas recently at webdesign-l in a thread about markup for lyrics. In that vein, then, you could consider naming a class for each of these thinking forward to XML if you wish..... something like: Star Wars Zap 2000! CSS for Dummies Maybe for now you'd want the elements to look the same, but it's a forward thinking approach. Steve knows all the XML stuff that's over my head and could explain this better. I just know the CSS stuff. You can check the webdesign-l archives (I think you have to be a subscriber) at Something to consider.... (BTW, I'll check my email here, too, and if I still have that thread I'll let ya know.) HTH! Warmly, Shirley -- Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A., SKDesigns mailto:skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Website Design, Development http://www.skdesigns.com/ WebsiteTips: Design Resources http://www.websitetips.com/ Brainstorms and Raves http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/ WaSP Steering Committee http://www.webstandards.org/ From rachel at cre8d-design.com Sat May 25 21:25:00 2002 From: rachel at cre8d-design.com (Rachel Cunliffe) Date: Sat May 25 21:25:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Cross-Browser CSS Layout In-Reply-To: <3CEF4E5D.5080506@cyberfuddle.com> Message-ID: Thanks for that Mark - I found out what was wrong with the stylesheet earlier -- I was had forgotten a "position: absolute;" in my stylesheet. Thanks for the pointer about the bold for links - I now have them underlined when they are in the main content section of the page. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Mark Gallagher > URL is http://www.battleofthebands.co.nz/home.html > > The problem in Netscape is that the content lies on top of the header :( I see no problems of that kind (Moz1RC3/Linux... Netscape 7 is based on one of the Mozilla 1 RC's). That said, I'd like to point out that simply making links bold doesn't make them particularly easy to use - what happens if you also want to use bold for emphasis? From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat May 25 21:31:00 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat May 25 21:31:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL .. is there a better way ? Message-ID: <014601c2045d$4ab2d9e0$d96ffea9@dansk.ca> Hi Folks .. Here's a snapshot of some SQL and ASP I'm working on refining. http://mishka.ca/messedcode.htm What I'm trying to do is combine the second SQL statement into the first one.. and for the life of me I'm not at all sure why it's being done the way it is. What I wanted to do was get the count of the number of comments in the first SQL... and output that Count number. There's really no reason to check if the rscomment is bof or eof .. at least I don't think there is .. can't I just output the count even if it is 0 "zero"? Anyway .. just playing and trying to get this to work and read better. ;) If anyone wants to hash it out in IRC [1].. a few of us are there saying we need an SQL God or Goddess (*hint*). Mich [1] /server irc.evolt.org (or /server irc.openprojects.net) /join #evolt From dbindel at austin.rr.com Sat May 25 22:20:00 2002 From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel) Date: Sat May 25 22:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Question: "Fill in" missing auto-increment records Message-ID: I am creating a user registration MyISAM database in MySQL that has an auto-incremented ID field. Example (original): ID | Name ------------------------- 1 | Thomas Jefferson 2 | George Washington 3 | George Bush 4 | Abraham Lincoln ....... Periodically (about once a month), I will run a script that removes user records that have not been used in the previous month (to keep size down and accuracy up.) Example (after clean-up script): ID | Name ------------------------- 1 | Thomas Jefferson 3 | George Bush Now because the ID field is auto_incremented, the next user to submit their registration will have their ID set to 5, even though the previous ID number is 3. Example (next user added): ID | Name ------------------------- 1 | Thomas Jefferson 3 | George Bush 5 | Bill Clinton What I am wanting to do is have some kind of SQL query that finds the "missing" ID numbers and puts the next user record in its spot instead of assigning it the next auto_incremented ID number. Example (next user added, after the SQL query which I hope exists): ID | Name ------------------------- 1 | Thomas Jefferson 2 | Ronald Reagan 3 | George Bush 5 | Bill Clinton Does anyone know how to do this? Thanks in advance, David Bindel From r937 at interlog.com Sat May 25 23:45:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat May 25 23:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL Question: "Fill in" missing auto-increment records Message-ID: <01c20470$0da59980$51e6059a@rudy> > What I am wanting to do is have some kind of SQL query > that finds the "missing" ID numbers and puts the next user record > in its spot instead of assigning it the next auto_incremented ID number. hi david short answer: don't long answer: if you can convince me you have a good reason, i will try to talk you out of it ever heard the expression "six of one, a half dozen of the other"? this isn't like that what you suggest will take a heck of a lot of work (consider: how do you know when the gaps have all been filled in and you can turn the autonumber back on? you don't -- and anyhow, how do you turn an autonumber off?) in the end, you get no benefit rudy http://rudy.ca/ From r937 at interlog.com Sat May 25 23:50:01 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat May 25 23:50:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL .. is there a better way ? Message-ID: <01c20470$b15e7100$51e6059a@rudy> > If anyone wants to hash it out in IRC [1].. a few of us are there hi michele i went into the channel, said hi to the half dozen bots, and left i looked at your sql and it looks okay to me without seeing your data, i'd guess that you could probably get the counts from the first result set, and not even bother with the second assuming you know how to loop through query results more than once if you must generate the counts in the query along with the details, that can be done with a UNION but it's ugly, and then you have to skip over the counts when printing the details rudy From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sun May 26 00:10:01 2002 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sun May 26 00:10:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL .. is there a better way ? References: <01c20470$b15e7100$51e6059a@rudy> Message-ID: <000c01c20473$895e3d40$8d61fea9@dansk.ca> Hey Rudy .. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" | > If anyone wants to hash it out in IRC [1].. a few of us are there | | hi michele | | i went into the channel, said hi to the half dozen bots, and left I was there .. unless it was when I got disconnected. The only bot left is thebot .. tho some people might act like bots at various times ;) | i looked at your sql and it looks okay to me | | without seeing your data, i'd guess that you could probably get the counts | from the first result set, and not even bother with the second | | assuming you know how to loop through query results more than once ack .. sounds complicated. Wish I still had access to weo .. to find out how/when the comments and ratings are calculated for each article. It's a similar scenario, I think. Oh well .. it does work the way it is ... I'm just not *thrilled* with it. ;) | | if you must generate the counts in the query along with the details, that | can be done with a UNION but it's ugly, and then you have to skip over the | counts when printing the details ok .. I'll take your word for it. Not sure I've ever done a union before. btw, I'm having a *really* difficult time trying to figure out when to use what kind of join. I must be missing the basic logic for it, as I always seem to struggle trying to figure it out .. inner join, left join, right join, outer join. Do you have any good references? I'm sure there are *rules* .. I just don't know what they are. Your RI article rocks .. we need more!! :) Mich From headlines at lists.evolt.org Sun May 26 00:11:00 2002 From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines) Date: Sun May 26 00:11:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 25-MAY-02 Message-ID: <200205260510.g4Q5A1RJ012757@leo.evolt.org> evolt.org headlines for 25-MAY-02 Hi evolters! We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else: Code: Show your attributes! (Author: csaila) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/17/27834/index.html This mini-tutorial illustrates how to use the W3C's Document Object Model to access element attributes, like title and href, and display them on a Web page. IA/Usability: Accessibility Laws In Canada (Author: taracleveland) http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/4090/28074/index.html You know all about the how-to of web site accessibility, you even know about section 508 and the ADA, but your site is Canadian and you can't convince your self/boss/client/muckity-muck to change the design of the site you're working on to make it accessible. Don't give up - the discrimination laws in Canada are even stronger than laws in the US and they apply to every business, organization and individual in Canada. Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site. Happy reading! evolt.org From david at vidmandesign.com Sun May 26 00:16:01 2002 From: david at vidmandesign.com (David Rafferton) Date: Sun May 26 00:16:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript help required! Message-ID: <20020526151229.054E.DAVID@vidmandesign.com> Hi all. Long time no post. I have a two level menu system working with frames. See it here- http://www.vidmandesign.com/entertainmentcareers/frameset.html The tricky thing is that I want the rollovers to stay in there "over" state upon clicking them (same for the secondary level layer menu). This must work in IE and NN 4+, on PC and Mac. Can this be done and if so- how? I'm not much a javascript coder so I'll need it in s-i-m-p-l-e language. Thanks in adavnce, David (aka- vidman) PS- I'll give credit to whoever can help in the source..lol! -- vidman design -- 40 Glenvale Road Ringwood VIC 3134 http://www.vidmandesign.com david at vidmandesign.com Ph: 03 9870 2207 Fax: 03 9876 9499 From r937 at interlog.com Sun May 26 00:34:00 2002 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sun May 26 00:34:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] SQL .. is there a better way ? Message-ID: <01c20476$d65f0a40$51e6059a@rudy> > btw, I'm having a *really* difficult time trying to figure out > when to use what kind of join. I must be missing the basic > logic for it, as I always seem to struggle trying to figure it out .. > inner join, left join, right join, outer join. an inner join returns only rows where the keys match an inner join is what you get when you use the "table list" syntax from TableA, TableB where ... an outer join returns all the rows of one table, plus columns from the other table where the keys match, with nulls in those fields where the keys don't match a left join and a right join are just outer joins -- if you don't say which, it's usually left by default TableA 2 foo 4 bar 6 qux TableB 2 john 2 bill 6 mary 8 fred TableA inner join TableB 2 foo john 2 foo bill 6 qux mary TableA left outer join TableB 2 foo john 2 foo bill 4 bar -- 6 qux mary TableA right outer join TableB 2 foo john 2 foo bill 6 qux mary 8 -- fred a right join is actually the same as a left join with the tables mentioned in the other order, so you hardly ever see right joins in the wild there is also a "full outer join" but not all databases implement it, and it isn't often needed -- TableA full outer join TableB 2 foo john 2 foo bill 4 bar -- 6 qux mary 8 -- fred the key to knowing whether you want an inner or an outer join is whether you need all the rows of one of the tables, even if there are no matching row from the other table on some of the keys helps? rudy From luminosity at members.evolt.org Sun May 26 02:20:01 2002 From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon) Date: Sun May 26 02:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525181949.01f2bea8@mail.midtown.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020525181949.01f2bea8@mail.midtown.net> Message-ID: <1032.139.130.216.191.1022397573.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns said: > Steve Champeon discussed some good ideas recently at webdesign-l in a > thread about markup for lyrics. In that vein, then, you could consider > naming a class for each of these thinking forward to XML if you > wish..... something like: > > Star Wars > Zap 2000! > CSS for Dummies > > Maybe for now you'd want the elements to look the same, but it's a > forward thinking approach. Steve knows all the XML stuff that's over > my head and could explain this better. I just know the CSS stuff. > You can check the webdesign-l archives (I think you have to be a > subscriber) at > Hmm.. I don't think XML in the weblog is for me. I sat down a while ago, and thought about an xml dtd for a weblog, and then I realised that precisely because a weblog talks about such a wide variety of things, it's not really a good candidate for a special xml. Nearly everything you need is already in the xhtml spec, since that was designed for general mark-up. special xml is only really needed for special things, such as a dtd for maths, or to take the earlier example you gave, lyrics. Thanks all the same though! and shouldn't that be btw? ;) > Something to consider.... > > (BTW, I'll check my email here, too, and if I still have that thread > I'll let ya know.) > > HTH! Cool, it sounds interesting. Thanks Shirley. Lach -------------------------------------- http://members.evolt.org/luminosity/ MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org -------------------------------------- From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sun May 26 05:12:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sun May 26 05:12:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] References: Message-ID: <3CF0B4D9.6070203@cyberfuddle.com> Daniel Fascia wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of the tag???? > > I noticed my flatmate debugging his site today ( www.yem.org.uk) and he was typing this tag which I have never even heard of! IIRC (it's been a while since I last saw it) it was created by Netscape as a spacer-GIF equivalent, but never really caught on. -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From mark at cyberfuddle.com Sun May 26 05:20:01 2002 From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sun May 26 05:20:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] markup - which element? References: <3CEF5D12.18030.59B383DC@localhost> <1025.139.130.216.191.1022375554.squirrel@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <3CF0B6AE.7090309@cyberfuddle.com> Lachlan Cannon wrote: > aardvark said: > >> your inclusion of the spec was handy, saved me a moment to look up >> the example, which doesn't offer much help, does it? >> >> i tend to use , regardless... > > Yeah, I thought that using it would be better than not using anything > - I just wondered if anyone knew of a more correct element, before I > started using cite. I don't know of any. >> so if i reference a book, i might do it like this: >> >> you must now go buy Usability: The >> Site Speaks for Itself, because if you don't, i might cry... > > What would you do for a game / movie, etc, then? The same, really. So: Hey man, get a load of that whole Attack of the Clones thing! Was that Yoda stuff sick, or what? (OT: Hmmm, I should really go see that... I'm sick of hearing about "that Yoda stuff" and not having seen it myself :o)) -- Mark Gallagher http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/ From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sun May 26 07:05:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sun May 26 07:05:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript help required! References: <20020526151229.054E.DAVID@vidmandesign.com> Message-ID: <015801c204ad$6d0829a0$02a588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi, <----- Original Message ----- -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi all Just been experimenting with some tags. I've taken this block of code from W3C: WWW SNCF Doña abbr. And it works in NS6, but for some reason the title doesn't want to show a tool tip in IE6. Is this a(nother) bug? Cheers Francis -- From hershelr at netvision.net.il Sun May 26 08:52:01 2002 From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson) Date: Sun May 26 08:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pseudo-Security Message-ID: <046101c204c4$8ddd58f0$0101c80a@hershel> I am in the process of rebuilding the IU of a large, commercial, limited-access website from a litany of ugly DreamWoven HTML pages into a slick webapp. If anyone is interesting to discuss my system and my approach to it, I would happy to talk about it off-line. I can always use a bit of advice. :) The one question I do want to ask the list, however, concerns the cookie/relogon functionality. At present, the system uses the CGI and short-lived cookies to verify users' identities. On cookie expiration, the user receives a relogon page and then receives his requested HTML page. My boss would like for the client-side JS code to initially deal with relogons. He would like a JS pop-up window (probably virtual) to appear on top of the webapp and request a username and login after X seconds of inactivity. The system only supports IE6.0 (and there are no plans to include other browsers at present) so the JS is a little easier to deal with. I thought of two approaches to this problem: 1 Have the JS examine the cookie and then when the user requests a new page, or perhaps on a keystroke/mouse event, check the cookie to see if it's still valid. This idea, however, has *several* drawbacks. 2 Have the JS fire a small function on each keystroke/mouse event (perhaps excluding mousemove events) and set a variable with the current timestamp. With the next keystroke/mouse event, I can compare the current timestamp to that of the last event and thus determine how much time the user has been inactive. If need be, I can then freeze input to the page and pop up a window requesting a password. I believe I can catch all events except Refresh and Back. Refresh is not such a concern because in such a case, the user is actually requesting a new web page and so to present him with a stand-alone HTML page (i.e. not an inherent part of the webapp) would not be incongruous. The Back event, however, concerns me. At present, the page he will be Backing up to will most probably have expired already and so he will see that cute little default your page has expired message. What he will do then I suppose would be either to forward and proceed normally or to Refresh. This Back issue is not a large concern because the webapp has its own back feature (a button) and I think most users are used to using it. I would like to deal with it in an as-elegant manner as possible, however, because I'm sure it will come up. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions as to all I have written are appreciated. I don't program in a vacuum exactly, but my programming team does consist of basically... me. Thanks, Hershel From bharoche at usa.net Sun May 26 09:42:01 2002 From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche) Date: Sun May 26 09:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Javascript help required! References: <20020526151229.054E.DAVID@vidmandesign.com> Message-ID: <001d01c204c3$70baa850$9865fea9@Laptop> Since you seem to be using DW for this, look at its NavBar behavior to create a set of rollovers, instead of the basic rollover/swap image behavior. The NavBar behavior can do what you want -- ie, allow a mouseover image to become a mousedown image on the same page. You can only have one NavBar set of rollovers per page though. Regards, Bob Haroche O n P o i n t S o l u t i o n s http://www.OnPointSolutions.com From chris at activeinterface.com Sun May 26 10:52:01 2002 From: chris at activeinterface.com (Chris Harrington) Date: Sun May 26 10:52:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pseudo-Security In-Reply-To: <046101c204c4$8ddd58f0$0101c80a@hershel> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526110022.01aa9150@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like you are on track. I would go with #2 but don't worry about comparing times. Just set at timer on page init then reset this timer on any user events. If the timeout files, then user didn't do any thing during the interval you specified. If you are using IE6, then you should do you whole app as one page with lots of stateful JS objects. Talk back to you app server with SOAP or XMLHTTP. Now you can treat IE as a real GUI development toolkit. Chris At 04:49 PM 5/26/2002 +0200, you wrote: >I am in the process of rebuilding the IU of a large, commercial, >limited-access website from a litany of ugly DreamWoven HTML pages into a >slick webapp. If anyone is interesting to discuss my system and my approach >to it, I would happy to talk about it off-line. I can always use a bit of >advice. :) > >The one question I do want to ask the list, however, concerns the >cookie/relogon functionality. > >At present, the system uses the CGI and short-lived cookies to verify users' >identities. On cookie expiration, the user receives a relogon page and then >receives his requested HTML page. My boss would like for the client-side JS >code to initially deal with relogons. He would like a JS pop-up window >(probably virtual) to appear on top of the webapp and request a username and >login after X seconds of inactivity. The system only supports IE6.0 (and >there are no plans to include other browsers at present) so the JS is a >little easier to deal with. > >I thought of two approaches to this problem: > >1 Have the JS examine the cookie and then when the user requests a new page, >or perhaps on a keystroke/mouse event, check the cookie to see if it's still >valid. This idea, however, has *several* drawbacks. > >2 Have the JS fire a small function on each keystroke/mouse event (perhaps >excluding mousemove events) and set a variable with the current timestamp. >With the next keystroke/mouse event, I can compare the current timestamp to >that of the last event and thus determine how much time the user has been >inactive. If need be, I can then freeze input to the page and pop up a >window requesting a password. > >I believe I can catch all events except Refresh and Back. Refresh is not >such a concern because in such a case, the user is actually requesting a new >web page and so to present him with a stand-alone HTML page (i.e. not an >inherent part of the webapp) would not be incongruous. The Back event, >however, concerns me. At present, the page he will be Backing up to will >most probably have expired already and so he will see that cute little >default your page has expired message. What he will do then I suppose would >be either to forward and proceed normally or to Refresh. > >This Back issue is not a large concern because the webapp has its own back >feature (a button) and I think most users are used to using it. I would >like to deal with it in an as-elegant manner as possible, however, because >I'm sure it will come up. > >Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions as to all I have written are appreciated. >I don't program in a vacuum exactly, but my programming team does consist of >basically... me. > >Thanks, >Hershel > >-- >For unsubscribe and other options, including >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! Chris Harrington Active Interface, Inc. www.intrasight.com Ph: 412-901-1184 Fax: 412-799-0927 From hershelr at netvision.net.il Sun May 26 11:27:01 2002 From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson) Date: Sun May 26 11:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pseudo-Security References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526110022.01aa9150@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <052701c204da$28549a50$0101c80a@hershel> > Sounds like you are on track. I would go with #2 but don't worry about > comparing times. Just set at timer on page init then reset this timer on > any user events. If the timeout files, then user didn't do any thing during > the interval you specified. Hmmm. Interesting idea. Suggests the possibility of popping up the relogon window with the timer alone, i.e. the pop up event could be driven by time, not by a user input event. > If you are using IE6, then you should do you whole app as one page with > lots of stateful JS objects. Talk back to you app server with SOAP or > XMLHTTP. Now you can treat IE as a real GUI development toolkit. Don't know SOAP nor XML, but I do know JavaScript and I do know the DynAPI JavaScript DHTML toolkit. With DynAPI, I have already written cross-browser, one-page web apps before IE 6 ever came out. This one is underway with the same system. Hershel PS: We'll have no smiling nor 'cheers' from you, Bennett. :) From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sun May 26 12:00:01 2002 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sun May 26 12:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Pseudo-Security References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526110022.01aa9150@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <052701c204da$28549a50$0101c80a@hershel> Message-ID: <020e01c204d6$9dbdf6a0$02a588d9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> Hi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hershel Robinson" Just remember to do the final logging-in server-side, javascript will never be really secure. Don't forget that users can change timer and cookie values from the Address-bar if they do something like this: javascript;timerVar=0 //PS: We'll have no smiling nor 'cheers' from you, Bennett. :) I almost refrained from replying all together this time :o) oh - sorry... ch.. err Best Regards, Richard. From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sun May 26 13:02:01 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Sun May 26 13:02:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] [OT] Adding True Type fonts to the X server in Linux. Message-ID: <1022437183.1245.76.camel@yafa> Warning: this is valid for Red Hat Linux. Other distributions might have diffrent locations for files. Want to add nicer True Type fonts to your Linux box? Do you really miss Verdana and Georgia? Want to make kickin' logos with the GIMP? A - Install freetype. http://rpmfind.net B - backups: /etc/X11/fs/config, /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 C- 1- create directory such as /usr/share/fonts/TrueType/ 2- copy all true type fonts to said directory. 3- # touch fonts.dir; # touch fonts.scale 4- in directory: # ttmkfdir > fonts.scale; # ttmkfdir fonts.dir 5- In directory: # mkfontdir D- edit /etc/X11/fs/config : look for [ catalogue = ] and on a new line below the other folders add the directory you created to hold your fonts. E- edit /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 : look for [ Section "Module" ] and on a new line add [ Load "freetype" ] F- Restart the X server. G- Once this is done once, just go through C-4 and C-5 again when you add more fonts. Samir M. Nassar -- RedConcepts.NET -- Open Solutions Design Syndicate Open Source, Public Service -- the Art and Craft of Webdesign http://redconcepts.net -- http://os-ds.com 'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds' From sales at iibiz.com Sun May 26 14:20:00 2002 From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz) Date: Sun May 26 14:20:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] O.T. - I.E. Address Drop Down References: <01f701c1c204$2932d720$6401a8c0@vader> Message-ID: <015401c204eb$5027b380$55892543@iibiz> Okay all you geniuses - how the heck do I clear the drop down at the top of the I.E. browser so it doesn't show everything I've keyed in? I've cleared all my history files and stuff, but that still remains.......... Thanks, Sandy From NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com Sun May 26 14:27:01 2002 From: NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com (NanHarbisonSmith at aol.com) Date: Sun May 26 14:27:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] O.T. - I.E. Address Drop Down Message-ID: <12.1fc6cacf.2a2290fe@aol.com> -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sandy, Did you try tools / Internet options / content tab / click on autocomplete, choose the things you want it to do or not do from the list, and then clear the history again. This MIGHT work, but knowing M$, there is a third and maybe fourth place where you have to change the default settings as well... Nan In a message dated 5/26/2002 3:19:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sales at iibiz.com writes: > Okay all you geniuses - how the heck do I clear the drop down at the top of > the I.E. browser so it doesn't show everything I've keyed in? > > I've cleared all my history files and stuff, but that still > remains.......... > Nan Harbison Smith 481 Elm Street Concord, MA 01742 978-369-1224 978-369-1681 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks. From sales at iibiz.com Sun May 26 14:34:05 2002 From: sales at iibiz.com (iibiz) Date: Sun May 26 14:34:05 2002 Subject: [thelist] O.T. - I.E. Address Drop Down References: <12.1fc6cacf.2a2290fe@aol.com> Message-ID: <016e01c204ed$4c05bd40$55892543@iibiz> Thanks Nan! That worked - not that I've been anywhere I shouldn't have been..........tee-hee! Thanks, Sandy From evolt at accessibleinter.net Sun May 26 14:42:01 2002 From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason) Date: Sun May 26 14:42:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] embed & html validating In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526124044.009fce60@accessibleinter.net> At 01:25 PM 05/25/2002, you wrote: >I'm using HTML 4.01 Transitional and I've got to have a Flash file >on the site; it doesn't validate because apparently 'embed' isn't an HTML >element. But it's necessary for NS4, right? Any way I can have it both >ways? Other than ignoring NN4 users, no. Bill Mason data at data1701d.com Dateline: Starfleet http://www.data1701d.com http://www.guru.com/profile/view.jhtml?guruId=959132 From evolt at accessibleinter.net Sun May 26 14:44:00 2002 From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason) Date: Sun May 26 14:44:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE6 and ABBR In-Reply-To: <000001c204b7$d681c3f0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526123944.009f7d10@accessibleinter.net> At 06:18 AM 05/26/2002, you wrote: >it works in NS6, but for some reason the title doesn't want to show >a tool tip in IE6. Is this a(nother) bug? IE doesn't support ABBR. Call it a bug or a sin of omission. Bill Mason Accessible Internet evolt at accessibleinter.net http://www.accessibleinter.net/ From RWaller at fresno.ca.gov Sun May 26 15:13:01 2002 From: RWaller at fresno.ca.gov (Waller, Rio) Date: Sun May 26 15:13:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Moving a site need some help! Message-ID: <11DE2DA8F971D311BDAB009027B1067414BFE1E5@pobox4.intra.co.fresno.ca.us> Hello, I have been given the task of moving a website written in ASP to a new server. Looks like the existing server using a hard DSN entry vs a DSNLess. I can create a DSN entry on the new server...but reading the code from the existing site...I can't seem to make any sense of where I would change the code. Each page has four js file included: Here is the code for IIS_Gen_3.0_Recordset.js...because this is file that the new site error(s) on the new server..so I'm guessing this is what i need to modify! Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified /media/IIS_Gen_3.0_Recordset.js, line 366 Thanks for any assistance you can provide! My head is hurting from banging it on this wall! :( Rio! From RWaller at fresno.ca.gov Sun May 26 15:34:01 2002 From: RWaller at fresno.ca.gov (Waller, Rio) Date: Sun May 26 15:34:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Moving a site need some help! CODE! Message-ID: <11DE2DA8F971D311BDAB009027B1067414BFE1E6@pobox4.intra.co.fresno.ca.us> I guess that thelist does not do attached...so were is the code from a first question! Rio ;) From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk Sun May 26 16:22:01 2002 From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr) Date: Sun May 26 16:22:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE6 and ABBR In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526123944.009f7d10@accessibleinter.net> Message-ID: <000001c204fb$84443480$4363989e@DHGQCD0J> IE doesn't support ABBR. Call it a bug or a sin of omission. ___ Thanks for that. That's another "tsk" added to my IE list... Cheers Francis From n at industriality.com Sun May 26 17:08:00 2002 From: n at industriality.com (Nik Schramm) Date: Sun May 26 17:08:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] embed & html validating In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020526124044.009fce60@accessibleinter.net> Message-ID: <000001c20501$88e6abc0$0b00a8c0@didda> >>But it's necessary for NS4, right? Much worse, I'm afraid: The tag is used by all browsers using the Netscape Flash Player, which basically means every browser apart from IE, as in Netscape 1-7, Mozilla, Opera etc. The tag is used only by the Active X version of the Flash Player in M$ Internet Explorer. Like you, I have also come across the problem of the non-validating tag and - like you - I have found no way around it apart from a) saying 'to hell with letter-perfect validation when it comes to Flash' until either Macromedia, the browser makers or the W3C take care of this (recommended) or b)writing your own custom XHTML doctype which just so happens to include an embed tag (pointless) or c) using some silly workaround like a JavaScript document.write() or an ASP Response.Write() to write the object/embed tags dynamically, which *does* allow the page to validate but will also drive you insane (not really recommended) while at the same time violating every common-sense standard used in web authoring (definitely not worth it). /nik www.industriality.com - candy for the inner eye From georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com Sun May 26 17:53:01 2002 From: georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com (George Klingenhoffer) Date: Sun May 26 17:53:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word's encoding of quotes [was embed...] Message-ID: Cool; well at least it's not only Netscape's fault then. Thanks. Next thing I can't figure out is what character entity Microsoft Word is using so I can have a script replace them with valid quotes. I thought it was “ like the W3's HTML Validator suggests but it seems to be something other than that. > Much worse, I'm afraid: The tag is used by all browsers using > the Netscape Flash Player, which basically means every browser apart > from IE, as in Netscape 1-7, Mozilla, Opera etc. The tag is > used only by the Active X version of the Flash Player in M$ Internet > Explorer. From roselli at earthlink.net Sun May 26 17:59:00 2002 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun May 26 17:59:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word's encoding of quotes [was embed...] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CF12FB9.20785.60D25F93@localhost> > From: "George Klingenhoffer" [...] > Next thing I can't figure out is what character entity Microsoft Word > is using so I can have a script replace them with valid quotes. I > thought it was “ like the W3's HTML Validator suggests but it > seems to be something other than that. i just copy the offending character and paste into my s-n-r dialog box as the source... then i don't care character it is... -- Read the evolt.org case study Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg ISBN: 1904151035 From georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com Sun May 26 18:17:00 2002 From: georgeklingenhoffer at hotmail.com (George Klingenhoffer) Date: Sun May 26 18:17:00 2002 Subject: [thelist] Word's encoding of quotes [was embed...] Message-ID: That works. I wish I could find the actual character code though. In Textpad it looks like a solid ANSI character. Thanks! > > Next thing I can't figure out is what character entity Microsoft Word > > is using so I can have a script replace them with valid quotes. I > > thought it was “ like the W3's HTML Validator suggests but it > > seems to be something other than that. > > i just copy the offending character and paste into my s-n-r dialog > box as the source... then i don't care character it is... From neuro at well.com Sun May 26 18:38:13 2002 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Sun May 26 18:38:13 2002 Subject: [thelist] [v.OT] Eurovision site References: <20020525193320.1631141c.evolt@david.us-lot.org> Message-ID: <024e01c2050b$313521e0$6502a8c0@local.zensoft.net> ---- Original Message ---- From: "David Dorward" To: Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [thelist] [v.OT] Eurovision site > On Sat, 25 May 2002 19:02:01 +0100 > Daniel Fascia wrote: > > > Checkout www.eurovision.tv its one damned handsome site... > > Although less so in a text browser. > > [USEMAP:_tpix.gif] > > [front_01_en.gif] [front_02.gif] > > [front_03.gif] [front_04_en.gif] > [front_05_en.gif] the number of times i bollock people for this is ridiculous ... "oh no-one uses lynx anymore" ... but start mentioning accessibility directives and (gasp) laws, the light is usually seen reasonably quickly. testing sites in text based browsers is both good practice and good manners - once you've tested your graphics, imagemaps and dhtml to hell and back in every graphical browser known to man, try it in lynx or links ... you may in fact get the fright of your life! -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ for Sega." -- Brodie, 'Mallrats' =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ @ well.com :: William Anderson U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! http://neuro.wasters.com/ From mm80xx at optushome.com.au Sun May 26 19:00:01 2002 From: mm80xx at optushome.com.au (Minh Tran) Date: Sun May 26 19:00:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP dropdown boxes. References: <20020525193320.1631141c.evolt@david.us-lot.org> <024e01c2050b$313521e0$6502a8c0@local.zensoft.net> Message-ID: <000501c20511$612fca20$c61531d2@nsw.optushome.com.au> Hi guys, just wanted to know how you put information taken from a datebase and inserting it into drop down boxes in html.... From mail at jasoncartwright.com Sun May 26 19:04:01 2002 From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright) Date: Sun May 26 19:04:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE Toolbar In-Reply-To: <024e01c2050b$313521e0$6502a8c0@local.zensoft.net> Message-ID: <000701c2050f$bc4741b0$0100a8c0@jason> Could someone point me the direction of some resources to create an Internet Explorer toolbar like the Google Toolbar (http://toolbar.google.com)? I'd like to display live information in the bar (like news headlines) as well as providing links and a search box. Many Thanks! Jason www.jasoncartwright.com From lindsay at redsquare.com.au Sun May 26 19:24:01 2002 From: lindsay at redsquare.com.au (Lindsay Evans) Date: Sun May 26 19:24:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IE Toolbar In-Reply-To: <000701c2050f$bc4741b0$0100a8c0@jason> Message-ID: > Could someone point me the direction of some resources to create an > Internet Explorer toolbar like the Google Toolbar Check the "Tool Bands" section -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au From evolt at funkwit.com Sun May 26 20:19:01 2002 From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan) Date: Sun May 26 20:19:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] IIS/URLs: IIS Directory Querystring References: <1022266420.1506.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <11a901c2051a$f0012290$3e02a8c0@cusack> Aaron Johnson wrote: > -- Course, it looks fugly when you do this... using your tip, if I try > to access a page, say /aaron.asp, which doesn't exist, IIS will then > redirect to > > /404.asp?404;http://myserver/aaron.asp > > Fugly. Not really. Under IIS 5, this is done with a server.transfer, =no redirect sent to client browser (all just one request). Also, you CAN then change the status so that it sends a 200 OK (or whatever it might be), as long as you have response buffering on. We have a setup whereby we have "virtual virtual directories", if you catch what I mean. So someone comes in to: http://somesite.com/someclient/smoof/bling.asp?page=bloop That's a 404. IIS transfers to /errorhandler.asp Errorhandler.asp parses the URL, and looks in the database to see if "/someclient/" represents a valid sub-site. If no -> 404. If yes, it checks if the file "/smoof/bling.asp" exists. If no -> 404. If yes -> transfers there. And all with only one client request, one response to client, with status 200. It's actually a bit trickier than it sounds, because this is effectively a way of running multiple sites (same code, TOTALLY different looks) off one URL without having to create a crapload of virtual directories. So errorhandler.asp needs to pass data to bling.asp. This is BLOODY DIFFICULT, because you can't transfer with a querystring. It took a LONG time to work out how to pass data - there is only one field in the "request" or "response" collections which is read/write, so we stuffed data in there. There are lots of read-only fields, and lots of write-only, but only one read/write, so we can set it in errorhandler.asp and read it in bling.asp; I'll tease you by not telling you which one. Hehe. So our code is.. really quite complicated. But it works. And it's fantastically effective - we can create new sites without having to create new virtual directories in IIS (doing this programmatically is not without its own problems). And to save the time of anyone who's thinking of trying this: if you have problems that you can't work out, check if the "Check If File Exists" option is set in the IIS configuration for the .asp extension. If it is not, things will screw up. Badly. But yeah, it can be done. Paul From dbindel at austin.rr.com Sun May 26 20:45:01 2002 From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel) Date: Sun May 26 20:45:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] Parse files for PHP *AND* SSI in IIS 5 Message-ID: Does anyone know how to set up IIS 5 to parse PHP files for Server-Side Includes? IIS won't let you set up multiple mappings for the PHP file type. Thanks in advance, David Bindel From martin at takingitglobal.org Sun May 26 21:25:01 2002 From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart) Date: Sun May 26 21:25:01 2002 Subject: [thelist] PHP dropdown boxes. In-Reply-To: <000501c20511$612fca20$c61531d2@nsw.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <000301c20525$a5f54a40$6401a8c0@martinlaptop> > Hi guys, just wanted to know how you put information taken from > a datebase and inserting it into drop down boxes in html.... eh?